January 13, 2025 • 62 mins
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Unlock healthier relationships and personal growth by exploring the intersection of sexuality and trauma with men’s coach Rob Kanzler. In this insightful conversation, Rob shares how societal norms, cultural narratives, and pornography shape misinformation and isolation, while emphasizing the need for open, grounded discussions to foster authentic connections. Drawing on his journey and indigenous practices, Rob reframes trauma as an adaptive response, urging listeners to rethink healing and embrace values-driven communication. From addressing performance anxiety and technology's impact on intimacy to aligning sexuality with purpose, this episode inspires curiosity and integrity for deeper emotional and sexual growth.
(12:47) https://www.passiton.com/
(39:09) https://www.va.gov/disability/
You can contact Rob for more information by visiting:
https://ihatenothavinggreatsexallthetime.com/
https://hdbdrm.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Josh Porthouse (00:00):
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Rob Kancler (00:49):
There was something in me that was like I cannot
just be complicit with, like myinherited idea about my
sexuality.
There was something in me thatwas just like no, no, I need to
figure this out.
I need to know what this isLike.
This is singularly the mostimportant thing for me to learn
about.
Josh Porthouse (01:07):
Today on Transacting Value.
What do you do when it'suncomfortable, being vulnerable?
Probably freeze up, but whatimpact does stress have on that
and can it help the process?
More importantly, what does itdo to your relationships with
yourself and with other people?
The process?
More importantly, what does itdo to your relationships with
yourself and with other people?
We're talking with men'ssexuality and trauma coach, rob
(01:29):
Kanzler.
All about it.
I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm yourhost and from SDYT Media.
This is Transacting Value, rob.
What's up man?
How you doing.
Rob Kancler (01:40):
I'm doing well, Josh.
Thanks for having me Happy tobe here.
Josh Porthouse (01:43):
Thanks for coming on the show, man.
There's a lot of things thatwhen I first heard you were
going to come on the show, I gotnervous about.
I don't know where thisconversation is going to go.
I don't know what questionsyou're going to ask or how the
conversation is going to getdiverted and I'm going to say
stuff I'm not comfortable orready for, I have to imagine, in
your line of workprofessionally.
That's a common response toknowing that a session comes up
(02:04):
with you.
Rob Kancler (02:06):
Well, I think that there's something indicative
about a greater cultural themethat, even though sex is such an
essential part of being a humanbeing, there's so give nor, in
a way, normalizing a culture ofhonest communication and just
(02:30):
like simple information sharing.
And you know, one way that Icould maybe weave this in is
that I think most men have neverhad a grounded, open
conversation with other menabout sex.
That's probably accurate.
It's so often this machismothing or this flex type of
(02:54):
energy or some sort of weirdsexism locker room thing that
the bros just get into orwhatever.
But a conversation with two men,two brothers are just openly
discussing what is yourexperience, what is it like for
you being a?
You know not that anyconversation would necessarily
sound like this, but like, yeah,what's going on in your sexual
(03:17):
life Like, what's that like foryou?
And so much of this part ofbeing a human being is so in
isolation, right.
So this, this ends up uh, youknow, let's see how deep we want
to go into this direction orwhatever other ones is that we
end up being educated bypornography, by kind of like
(03:39):
secondary impacts of, uh,religion or all kinds of other
stuff, that the trauma of ourparents, the confusion of our
parents, the whatever sort ofrole model or examples that we
get when we're little of whatintimate relationships are
supposed to be, that we take allthat stuff on and then usually
we just keep it in and we liveit out without actually engaging
(04:02):
or being educated from sourcesthat understand how to have
healthy and fulfilling lives andsexual lives so I'm curious
your, I guess, opinion orposition on this, because
whenever I hear topics in anysense frame, fashion or scope
(04:24):
about sex and sexuality, it'salways physical and I don't know
that it is.
Josh Porthouse (04:29):
In fact, I don't think that it is.
However, that's generally theconnotation and maybe that's why
a lot of these culturalconsiderations about, let's say,
conversations about sex andsexuality, especially among men
or even just between two dudes,is such a weird sort of
uncomfortable conversation topic, because you're talking about
(04:53):
physical stuff that now neitherof you can relate to.
There's no grounding, becauseit's not physical between the
two of you.
It's mental or cognitive orbehavioral maybe, but that's it,
and so how do you talk aboutsomething in common when you
have none of it in common?
And it's all based on empathy,right, and I think that's a
difficult thing to do.
However, before I get to that,how do you get into something
(05:18):
like this?
Can you just take a coupleminutes and explain to me for a
second who you are, where you'refrom, what sort of things are
shaping your perspective on theworld to make this a career
choice?
Rob Kancler (05:28):
Sure, yeah, and in a way I heard somebody say this
once and it does resonate that Ihear a lot of folks talking
about like choosing their lifepath or figuring out what they
want to be when they grow up orwhatever, and I feel like my
life in many ways hasn't givenme the luxury of that.
And I don't know, I don't knowif this is just like language,
(05:52):
communicating somethingintangible, but I often feel
like, with this particularcareer path or whatever, in so
many areas of my life it feelslike this has just been the path
that it would almost be weirdif I didn't end up here, given
who I am and what has happenedto me?
Yeah, like it's not.
Like I woke up one day it waslike, oh, I want to like pursue
(06:15):
sex education or whatever as acareer.
It was more so that, like, thiswas just the trajectory of my
life.
And here I am, 35 years later,in this position where people
refer to me as whatever titlesmight be appropriate.
But yeah, your question.
I don't mean to discredit it.
(06:35):
I think it's a worthwhile thingto give people context how I
ended up in this position andwhy I'm talking to you with the
premise set up this way.
Josh Porthouse (06:44):
It's interesting .
Rob Kancler (06:46):
Yeah, it's unusual.
You're right.
I think that for a lot ofpeople, yeah, they have a
similar question.
So I can say that, like from afrom a young age and I I don't
know that I would have put wordsto it until pretty recently,
and the way that I'm about towords to it until pretty
(07:07):
recently, in the way that I'mabout to, I just had this sense
that the thing that I was toldsex was wasn't true, like it
wasn't a complete answer to likewhat is sex and how is it
relevant and how do you do it,and like what is this about?
That I was, as we all are,informed about this through all
(07:29):
these different sources andthere was just something in me
that was like I don't buy it,like I don't think that we
understand this.
This doesn't satisfy some sortof intuition that I have about
this subject, some sort ofintuition that I have about this
subject and that, combined witha couple other factors one of
(07:50):
them, I would say is is, uh,like insecurity and probably
unworthiness, like something inme that was like the way that
I'm going to get love andbelonging is to like solve the
puzzle of female emotional andsexual needs, that the way that
(08:10):
I'm going to get love andbelonging and security and find
my place in the world and havepeople like me and to have
access to community and familyand all that or whatever is.
I'm gonna hack this thing andthus I'm going to be okay, right
, like.
I remember that and I thinkthis is really normal to a
(08:33):
certain extent.
I think that young menespecially, but probably all men
, especially, especially with anew lover that we want to be
impressive, we want to show thatwe are beautiful and valuable
and that we're unique and canprovide something special for a
(08:53):
woman.
I think this is a very normalpart of the male experience is
wanting to, to offer somethingmeaningful to a woman in, in sex
, especially at the beginning ofa relationship, and I think
that I took that to a a prettyunusual degree of like.
I need to know like, like,almost as like an obsession,
(09:14):
like how do I learn about thissubject?
How do I, how do I become awholly satisfying lover, even
like better than anybody else,so that I potentially contend
with this deep sense ofunworthiness and self-hatred?
Josh Porthouse (09:39):
frankly, yeah, and again, you can be as
vulnerable as you want.
But where does something likethat come from?
Because it doesn't sounduncommon to me.
Rob Kancler (10:16):
And it does seem like at the root of it and when
we start talking about traumaespecially folks who haven't
been exposed to theseconversations they typically
think of, like what folks in thelike therapy world or the
trauma healing world say isepisodic trauma, like something
that, for example, like peoplethat experience PTSD because of
being in active duty and likesee something really extreme or
experience something reallyextreme that we could say that
it's like episodic trauma, likethat something happened, like
there was a, an incident and,yeah, some something really
intense happened and the systemis rocked and it it takes a
(10:39):
unique approach to integrate it.
The more prevalent kind oftrauma, which sometimes can be
kind of crazy making becauseit's difficult to validate, is
neglect, and I think neglectthat I would say that I think
almost everybody that I haveexplored with in any way to be
(11:04):
able to give my two cents aboutit it seems like there is
developmental trauma related toneglect.
Some theories that I have aboutthis are that we are designed I
mean, I don't mean to be likebringing any sort of like
religious connotation to it, butlike our, our hardware, the way
(11:27):
that we are as mammals isdesigned, that we are meant to
be accompanied by adults as wedevelop system that can process
intense experiences and regulateon its own until seven or eight
(11:48):
at least, like you literallydon't even have the hardware to
do that.
You have to, you have to like.
Literally you require adultnervous systems to digest
intense experiences and regulateyour body Like fundamentally
you cannot.
You cannot do that essentialfunction without adult nervous
(12:12):
systems until you're much lateron in development.
And I think what ends uphappening is because you know,
necessarily we run into thingsthat are intense and the adults
around us don't have thecapacity to be present to their
own feelings, nevermind whatgoes on for others, that
(12:34):
something that we couldeffectively call neglect happens
, that we ended up being alone.
Josh Porthouse (12:42):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
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Rob Kancler (13:27):
You know, necessarily we run into things
that are intense and the adultsaround us don't have the
capacity to be present to theirown feelings, nevermind what
goes on for others, thatsomething that we could
effectively call neglect happens, that we ended up being alone.
Okay, and I think that this isthis is a pretty consequential
thing, because we are not meantto deal with our, our lives by
ourselves, especially when we'relittle, that we need to be
(13:50):
accompanied.
We need we need that, and Idon't mean not to like
romanticize what it is to be ahuman being, and often when we
start talking about this stuff,it almost like invokes a sort of
romanticization of the humanexperience, and I think it's
really important to be clearthat, like we're talking about
biology, like this is not like,oh, it's cool to like feel your
(14:13):
feelings or like have empathy orlike have somebody be with you
and your feelings and that's youknow.
Like whatever you think aboutthat is irrelevant.
What I want to highlight is,like this is about biology, like
this is a fundamental realitythat we are hack animals and our
the way that we deal withgestation and developmental
sequence with young ones is suchthat they literally require
(14:38):
attuned adult nervous systems todevelop correctly, like
fundamentally, they need thatand in the West they they don't
get that and it's been you knowhundreds or thousands of years,
since that was the way that weare.
And yeah, there's manydirections that we can go, but
I'm curious how this lands foryou at this point.
Josh Porthouse (14:58):
Oh, my most immediate question is what is
your baseline for comparison?
You said Westernized culture,but compared to what?
Rob Kancler (15:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's some research thatI've seen and I know some kind
of anecdotal stuff from folksthat I know that have lived with
indigenous people and like, forexample, one interesting
analogy is that a friend of minewho lived with pygmies in
Africa for an extended period oftime he said that he had never,
ever, seen a baby like or orthrow up in a place where it
(15:30):
wasn't supposed to.
That not only its own mother,but all of the childbearing
women in the community, or justthe women in the community, are
so attuned to the bodies ofthese little humans that they
just know that they need to takecare of business, that it's
like they don't have diapers.
(15:50):
They're not like.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they don't even have themeans to take care of these sort
of things.
It's almost like they are.
They are an embodied extensionof the adults in the community
and we don't have that.
We don't have that, and I thinkthat it's definitely more
commercialized yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's like what, what?
What ends up happening is thatwe adapt to figure out.
(16:12):
How do we deal with the factthat we're not able to process
our experiences and digest whathappens to us?
But also, how do we develop apersonality or personas that
allows us to get love and avoidharm?
Josh Porthouse (16:28):
Does that sort of let's just call it trauma,
because it's not always going tobe witting and it's not always
going to be willing from anyparties involved, right,
sometimes it just happens andyou don't know until hindsight
from anybody involved.
Sometimes it just happens andyou don't know until hindsight
from anybody involved.
But that kind of trauma I thinkcan manifest as sort of maybe
(16:53):
even intentional distancing.
Let's say it's rooted in fearor discomfort or uncertainty or
any of these other types ofpositions, mindsets.
You brought up the militaryearlier, which is the majority
of my professional life in theMarine Corps, infantry, and
intentional distancing isnecessary, in fact it's
encouraged.
It becomes the platform thatthe majority of us, in every
(17:16):
platoon that I was ever in,communicated from as a point of
commonality, of commonality, andI found, at least in my
experience, that it deepened ourrelationships.
And this is before, at least inthe US and in the Marine Corps
infantry, women were allowed inthe infantry and as infantrymen,
and so it was all guys.
(17:38):
But what we had in common, whatwe would talk about, you know,
long walks or late nights orwhatever was more what we called
intentionally distancing fromwhatever On a deployment.
Maybe it's bills, maybe it'sfamily.
Maybe it's whatever, but it wasthe way to cope and process and
(17:59):
focus and actually put distancebetween those catalysts and
whatever we were going through.
But that's neglectintentionally.
Are they associated orcorrelated at all, do you think?
Rob Kancler (18:15):
It's a fascinating question.
My immediate impulse is I don'tknow and I'm curious about what
you say.
I'm like, oh, that's that'sinteresting and I can relate to
it in some way.
But I'm also just interested tounderstand.
Your experience feels uniqueand I get the sense that I don't
fully understand where you'recoming from, which is cool.
(18:35):
I'm like, oh, tell me more.
Um, so, the people that I'velearned from and, uh, I've read
a lot of books on the subjectthat it seems like what trauma
is about is too much and I'malone, like something happens
that's too intense and now I'mby myself to deal with it.
(18:56):
Oh, okay, okay, like.
So that's what I understand isthe foundation, and it can be
like too much, too fast, toointense, like something happens
that's too intense for me toprocess in the moment and now
I'm by myself to deal with it.
So the way that I've heard itframed is like the trauma is the
(19:16):
response.
It's not even the incidentRight, which is trippy Like.
Trauma is the way that werespond to not being able to
integrate what happened.
Trauma is not the thingnecessarily.
Trauma is the, the adaptationor the reaction to an intense
experience that we don't havethe resources or capacity to
(19:37):
process and yeah, I mean it's a,it's a profound thing.
And again, I do really like tohighlight here that like it's
useful to separate our sort oflike narrative about about like
a room, a romanticization of thehuman experience, from by
biological reality.
(19:59):
Like that's not how I am, butit's like you're a mammal, like
that's how your nervous systemis.
It's not like I understand.
I understand that there's likepersonality variation and that
there's value of like stoicismand that people have incredible
will and skills for navigatinglife and all of that.
(20:21):
But the reality of like, whenwe have experiences that are too
much and then we are justisolated, that that changes the
brain, it changes the nervoussystem, it changes the way that
we are.
Because we have to, we have tocarry on with a part of us not
being integrated, that there'slike a fragmentation.
(20:42):
We have to proceed to live byhaving a like, a construct of a
personality that has this otherthing like bolted onto it.
That's not integrated.
Or it's like something happenedto me, something happened to me
and like I don't know how toinclude it in who I am.
Yeah, and it's like the thingthat most people are carrying
(21:02):
isn't related to war or combat.
It's related to I was a littlekid and I was by myself and I
was scared and confused andangry and sad and happy and
inspired and I wasn't supportedto meet that and to have that
(21:23):
proliferate, you know, and thatthat is traumatic.
It is traumatic and I again,it's like it's traumatic on the
level of biology, on the levelof the nervous system, not on
the level of like, oh, that wassuch a you know, like was it a
bad thing, was it not?
Like that that conversation canget really intangible or like
(21:44):
opinionated and think the thingthat's like this is just a, this
is the reality of a biologicalsystem, is a much easier
conversation to have because itit necessarily kind of strips
from opinion.
It's just like it's a body likethat, it's just a nervous
system, that's how it works okay.
Josh Porthouse (22:06):
Well then, let's talk a little bit more
objectively grounded about someof these things.
Stress, for example, cortisolspikes, hormones go all
different directions and levelsfor any random periods of time
and one of two things happen,right, you either can't focus or
(22:26):
you can.
I think, interestingly, both ofthem are a response to whatever
traumatic event occurred andit's all the same catalyst.
I don't know what to do here.
Tunnel vision, and then youprocess, you know, to whatever
(22:46):
the extent is after the fact.
Yes.
So what is your opinion on theimpacts of a high stress
environment, occupationally,circumstantially qualified, how
you want, on somebody'sobjective, maybe biological
ability to regulate themselves,to better align and identify as
(23:08):
themselves?
Again, yeah, or at all it's acool inquiry.
Rob Kancler (23:14):
One thing that comes up is flow like flow
states right, like how.
From my experiences, I would saythat there's two categorically
different kinds of flow.
One of them is like based onadrenaline, and the other one is
based on just kind of likebeing in the pocket and just
like the way that, like jazzmusicians are just you know,
(23:36):
they're just in the pocket andyeah, that's interesting.
It's something that I thinkwe'll understand more about in
the next years as there's moreresearch.
That I think we'll understandmore about in the next years is
there's more research, but thethe different there's.
Experientially, it seems likethere's two totally different
kinds of flow that havecommonalities but are very
different.
One of them is like cortisoland adrenaline.
So you're like super focused,because often there's high
(23:58):
stakes and if you up, it's notokay.
Like if you're you know ifyou're like on a mountain bike
going down a hill really fast.
Like if you're you know ifyou're like on a mountain bike
going down a hill really fast,you're not, you don't have add
anymore, because you're notgonna, you're not gonna be okay.
Like if you start thinkingabout something that's not in
the moment, you're gonna hit atree and you're not gonna be,
you're not gonna go well.
(24:19):
So I imagine the same thing istrue in combat scenarios, in
whatever case, whether it'smartial arts or war or you know
whatever scenario where it'slike yeah so, and I think that
this is something that comeswith training, that I imagine in
your military training samewith people who are emts or they
(24:39):
work in the er, whatever thatyou get trained to respond in
high stress environments bybasically like habituating
yourself to protocols, I assumeright when it's like you learn
that like I got a checklist likewe do these things in a
scenario like this to ensurethat everything happens the way
it's supposed to and we havegood outcomes and if things are
(25:01):
safe as possible.
Josh Porthouse (25:04):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Join us for Transacting Value,where we discuss practical
applications of personal values,every Monday at 9am on our
websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom,
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays atnoon on wreathsacrossamericaorg
slash radio.
Rob Kancler (25:32):
I got a checklist Like we do these things in a
scenario like this to ensurethat everything happens the way
it's supposed to and we havegood outcomes and if things are
safe as possible.
Josh Porthouse (25:38):
Well, ideally also, some of that is to give
you something to focus on, ofthat is to give you something to
focus on.
So the the psychological ideaand to, I guess, maybe even a a
greater degree that thephysiological idea behind the
premise you just brought up is,colloquially, in the dod, the
department of defense, trainedto a standard brilliance in the
(26:00):
basics, right.
But the idea is, the reasoningis because when, inevitably, you
become so stressed that, forwhatever reason, you start to
panic or, like we would call it,go internal, you just can't
focus on outside your body,you're stuck in your body that
you need things that don'trequire fine motor skills and so
(26:27):
, metaphorically, those finemotor skills may be the
checklist instead of the detailsin the moment that's happening
during an explosion or or or anambush or something.
Okay, let me take stock ofwhat's here.
My hands are on the ground, I'mbreathing, I don't know where I
am, what's happening, why Ican't hear anything.
(26:47):
I don't know why I can't seeanything.
It's dusty, okay, but you knowyou can't see anything.
You know it's dusty.
You know your head you can feelRight.
So it's the metaphorical finemotor skills that you wean out
through this checklist typementality.
But I guess psychologically aswell.
But physiologically I can'tfocus enough to push the buttons
(27:09):
on this radio to call for airsupport, but I can use the
entirety of my hand to mash aspot on here or the corner of my
hand, or I can't pull mytrigger to fire back because I
don't know, because I can't feelmy fingers.
Rob Kancler (27:29):
There's no blood in my extremities right, that's a
physiological response to shock.
It's a fear response.
It's a fear response, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (27:35):
Sure, yeah, and or blood loss, I guess,
depending on your circumstance,but you know I physically can't
do this, and so instead then wewould also have training drills.
I spent seven months a fewhours north of the Arctic Circle
a couple years ago, and one ofthe drills that we worked
(28:01):
through was put on mittens andthen go shoot at targets
accurately, and so we took thetrigger guard off and instead of
using one finger, we fourfingers, your whole hand, but
for the same exact sort ofrepetitional exposure to what do
you do when your fingers arenumb for any number of
causational reasons or causes, Iguess, um, and so, yeah, I
(28:22):
agree with what you're saying,that it gives a little bit of
structure to the chaos in ametaphorical sense, but also
psychologically, physiologically, I mean, there's a lot of
benefits to this sort oftraining, to a standard or this
brilliance in the basics concept, and that actually very nicely
brings me back full circle.
The basics, I think, ofcommunication, like you said
(28:47):
earlier on, is honestcommunication in conversation
and simplified informationsharing.
I can happen in a dialogue whenthere's no pretense, it comes
from curiosity, not judgment, orthe facades dropped.
And so when I hear you saythings like two men talking
(29:08):
about sexuality.
Okay, what's that look like?
What's the list of things we'regoing to discuss then?
It's just like what's on themenu today, steve.
You know you just you justbreak it down and talk and it
changes everything.
Because there's not like thisconversation.
There's not.
Because there's not like thisconversation.
There's not judgment, there'snot a pretense, it's just an
(29:30):
honest conversation with simpleinformation sharing.
And so how do you do that withwhat I'm assuming at least the
first time total strangers?
Rob Kancler (29:40):
It's a great question.
Yeah, like part of the premiseof the work that I do is, uh, we
begin with context setting.
So I had a formative experience.
I lived in germany for two anda half years, something like
that, and one of my flatmateswhen I was living in berlin, he,
uh, he learned about what I doand what I was interested in.
(30:01):
And he, from just like a placeof innocence, like almost like
his little boy, came out andhe's like we teach me, me some
stuff, like he was like, and myresponse was like sure, man, why
, why do you want to know?
Like what do you?
What do you want to know?
And why, like, why do you wantto know more about sex?
And he was stumped.
(30:21):
I remember he was just like Idon't know.
And I sat with him for a minuteand I was like well, let's
think about it.
Why do you want to learn moreabout this subject?
Why do you like it?
I think this is very commonthat he was just puzzled.
(30:41):
He was like I don't know, Idon't even know why I'm so
interested in this subject.
And we could say that there'slike biological drivers, there's
like hedonism or whatever.
There's like the notch in yourbelt thing, like status or
because it's yeah, now I cantalk about it whatever, yeah,
totally.
But.
But I remember his his responsewas so innocent and sweet that
(31:04):
he was, he was just literally,he's like because my d*** feels
good, and like that was whatcame to mind for him and it was
like cool, yeah, like that's a.
I appreciate the honesty andthe sincerity of it, but like,
let's unpack this more Like,let's look like what do you?
Why does this matter?
What do you care about?
(31:24):
So maybe this is a segue intothe topic at hand, or the topics
at hand with your podcast isaround values.
So, for me, what is at thecenter of my work is this
inquiry around sexual integrityand integrity in general, where
I would say that I think aboutintegrity not not from the
(31:44):
perspective of like morality orwhatever, like ethical
considerations, the way thatthat word is usually used.
I think about integrity asbeing intact, like,
etymologically and historically,composition yes, exactly Like
the.
So etymologically, the wordintegrity means like wholeness.
(32:06):
So this is this is huge when westart to have a conversation
about sex from a place of like.
How do I be intact as a man,Like, how do I have a sense of
energetic wholeness as a humanbeing with regards to this thing
called sex and sexuality andthe fact that I have these
(32:28):
biological drivers and emotionaldrivers and energetic drivers
and hormones and all this stuff.
Like what do I do to be inintegrity with the reality of
being a man with regards to sex?
And that, to me, is the premiseof the conversation that I have
with people.
It's, you know, which caninclude like technique and
(32:49):
understanding orgasm andunderstanding women, and you
know a lot of people typicallycome with like the same issues.
We can get into it in a secondbut, like you know, the typical
that you would imagine likepeople are like my doesn't work,
like ejaculation and erectionconcerns, or they have
performance anxiety, or theywant to understand female
pleasure and orgasm, or theywant more sex or better sex, or
(33:13):
they feel like their partnerisn't, is like too modest, or
it's her issues that that arethe reason why we don't have a
better sex life.
Like it's it's just the same.
I hear just the same couplethings.
Like almost always it's justthe same few things.
And when we orient, we addressall that stuff and we orient to
(33:35):
it from the perspective ofintegrity because it's like
there's so much more energy tochange things and to do deep
work and to create new habitsand to infuse our heart and our
intentions into the way that wemake love and hold this part of
our life and our most importantrelationship from an
(33:58):
understanding of what reallymatters.
Where it's like when youconnect to the why, like the
sense of what we talk about,this, this term, formative
intent.
Where it's like when youconnect to the why, like the
sense of what we talk about,this, this term, formative
intent.
Where it's like when you canreally connect to like this is
like the deep meaning that Ihave for my life and for my
sexual life and for myrelationship, then it's so much
easier to be like okay, doesthis match or does this not?
(34:19):
Is this an integrity issue or isthis the way that I'm supposed
to be in the world?
Or is this the way that I'msupposed to be in the world?
For example, like some of thelanguage that comes up, a lot
for me and for other people islike it's about an expression of
natural love.
It's an expression of aliveness.
It's an expression of like my,my aliveness and my primality
and the impact that my woman hason my vitality being circulated
(34:42):
back to her as an expression oflove and adoration for her and
for her beauty and for herdedication to me and for my
dedication to her.
That it's like that is aprofoundly energizing reason,
let's say, to investigate whatare we doing or what don't we
know yet, or how beautiful couldthis really get?
Because it matters, Like itmatters, Because this sense of
(35:07):
like do you want to just be abetter lover that usually kind
of goes into more like egoicthings.
Josh Porthouse (35:13):
Or like hedonism A little more superficial in
comparison.
Exactly.
Rob Kancler (35:16):
Like hedonism right , it's either like I want
sensory indulgence or egoindulgence or, on the other side
of it, which I think issomething that people don't
realize as much as it actuallyis the case, is that people use
sex and ejaculation as a meansfor regulation, that they use it
as like endogenous drugs,basically where, like your body
(35:40):
has the capacity to release pentup tension and stored emotion
that we don't know how torelease on our own by
ejaculating.
So like that's what people do,and they don't realize that,
like it is in effect anaddiction.
It's basically like the bodydoes not know how to regulate
and come back to equilibrium.
(36:00):
So I can do this mechanisticrelease thing called ejaculation
that releases some tension inmy body and in my pelvic floor
that I don't otherwise know howto regulate, and I also get to
experience the kind ofendogenous chemical change that
happens in my brain when Iejaculate.
No-transcript.
(36:52):
But they just get in it andthey just live in this old
information and they don'trealize that there is, or there
could very easily could be adifferent scenario or there
could very easily could be adifferent scenario.
So this comes back to the thingof trauma where, like a lot of
it is just like there's oldinformation playing in a nervous
system and we habituate to itand then we think it's our
(37:14):
personality and then it getsvery difficult to change because
we don't have any real reasonto.
It's like complacency, right,or it's like it's okay, I can
just live.
I can just live like this andit's fine.
And I think that this is such abig problem and I see this as a
big issue with men specificallythat there's almost like this,
like coolness or thisnonchalance that's almost like a
(37:35):
big part of especially theAmerican male ego persona thing.
It's like it's cool to likejust be chill and be cool with
things and like there are somepeople that I know are like the
thing that makes them sosuccessful is that they insist
that they're really like this isnot okay, like I am absolutely
(37:56):
not going to stand for thisbeing my life or the life of
people that I love, or asituation that I observe in the
world.
That's not cool, it's not okay,I will not stand for this.
And it seems like this is verycounter this thing that I think
our anger is a really importantdriver to be like cut the.
Something needs to change that.
(38:18):
There's this thing that happenswith a lot of men, especially
younger men.
Well, I don't know, I don'tknow if younger, older
generations have it more or lessdefinitely very different and
significant thinking of like mydad's generation and like
younger dudes that I know at thegym that it's almost like
there's this sense of like.
The way that you be cool andrespectable is by demonstrating
(38:39):
that you're like, emotionlessand have like a nonchalance
about everything, and I thinkthat's actually an expression of
like losing our aliveness.
It's a kind of disembodimentthat we don't think it's safe to
be in our bodies, where ourlike, the body, intelligence,
like there's like anger issupposed to help us move through
(38:59):
things that need to change orto say stop or to be like no.
Josh Porthouse (39:07):
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
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Josh Porthouse (39:40):
Anger is supposed to help us move through
things that need to change orto say stop or to be like no,
and we think that yeah oh, I wasjust gonna say that a lot of
that distancing isn't alwaysintentional, and I mean not from
a place of purpose intentional,not from a place of purpose
(40:03):
intentional, but from a place of, maybe, emulation intentional
because you don't know anybetter and it's still then
rooted in some degree of ofignorance, I think and you
mentioned complacency earlier.
I don't know, based on thatdefinition, maybe complicity is
a little bit more suited in somecircumstances, because then you
(40:24):
, you, you don't know why you'redoing what you're doing, but
you know you're doing somethingthat you otherwise wouldn't do.
Why am I doing this?
I don't know, but I'm going todo it, whatever it is Talk this
way, dress this way, act thisway.
Yes, because you get put into aposition where you just don't
(40:44):
know if there's a right way oran appropriate way to respond to
something.
Rob Kancler (40:47):
Yes, so this circles back to the thing that I
was saying about like how did Iend up in the position that I'm
in, which I think I can comeback to this more is that there
was something in me that waslike I cannot just be complicit
with, like my inherited ideaabout my sexuality.
There was something in me thatwas just like no, no, I need to
figure this out, I need to knowwhat this is Like.
(41:09):
Like it almost just seemed likelike life or death, almost like
this is singularly the mostimportant thing for me to learn
about, and I took it very, veryseriously and I did a tremendous
amount of personal exploration,like a little bit of like
self-pleasure stuff, but mostlyjust like a lot of time with
women, a lot of time, and I'vehad some amazing teachers and
(41:32):
different kind of spiritualtraditions and some true mystics
, like real spiritualpractitioners that are almost
like a different, a differentversion of a human, basically,
that have given me some keys andopened the doors, because
previous to meeting some ofthese people and also previous
to the things that I juststumbled into in my own sexual
(41:55):
explorations, I had no contextfor at all, like I didn't even
know that that was a thing Likewhat I have effectively been
able to continue to recreate andrecreate in my life with more
and more and more depth andbeauty over the years, and to
support tons of men fromdifferent backgrounds and being
able to become pioneers of theirown sexual life, is that like
(42:20):
you can experience somethingthat is like a psychedelic or
religious experience by havingsex all the time, and the power
of that experience is so, it'sso formative.
It changes a man, it changes aperson, it changes a woman.
(42:41):
To get rid of all of that shameand to, in a way, have to
transcend our ego and our fearand our, our contracted sense of
who we are, to be able to openinto that kind of expanded state
of consciousness and and unity,or whatever we want to call it,
the well, there's thatintegrity you talked about
(43:03):
earlier.
Josh Porthouse (43:05):
I don't know what if you don't.
You know there's plenty ofpeople that don't have that
degree of companionship or livein some degree of neglect or
fear about finding it.
And so I mean then what?
Rob Kancler (43:21):
So there's a couple different things that I think
we're touching here.
One of them is this pervasiveand super common theme of
isolation in the world, and theother thing is like how marriage
is less and less commonstatistically, like less people
(43:41):
are getting married, less peopleare having kids.
I read some statistic recentlythat 50% of American adults have
not had sex in the past 12months.
50% of all American adults havenot had sex in the past 12
months.
Is what?
the long time.
Yeah, half of all the humans inone year have not had sex wild
(44:07):
and like.
Divorce rates are insanely high.
Marriage rates are lower, lower.
So it's like clearly there'ssomething going on right, like
clearly, and I think thatthere's influences, like I think
pornography actually affects usa lot, a lot, a lot hugely.
I think dating apps do too.
I think that the fact that somany people are able to get
(44:27):
their survival needs met by notsocializing very much which is
new in the world, like thathasn't been going on for very
long that it makes it so thatthere's so many dudes who just
like play video games and have atech job, who don't know how to
talk to women and they watchporn all the time, so they don't
even really have, like, thisbiological urge to be like how
(44:50):
do I change this?
Because they have a activesexual life with tons of women
in this like hyper, hyper,normal stimulus in front of
their computer and off every day.
So there you know, there'slayers and layers of influence,
and I think that that is alsostacked on tombo, this
developmental neglect thing thatalmost everybody has.
So so I think it just createsthis fabric where, like, we are
(45:13):
so disintegrated from thereality of our unity, that we
are herd animals, like we're not.
We're not individuals.
Like we are a pack we are meantto be in a shared co-living
experience with a big group.
Like that's how we developed infamily and community.
And you know, that's just how weare and that's not the way that
(45:35):
people live and it is extremelyunhealthy and it is difficult
to get out of because peopledon't know how to relate.
So when they try to interactwith people, it's weird and
people don't like it and it justit's like the negativity begets
negativity begets negativity.
And one thing that I you knowfrom coaching men around dating
and sex and attraction andrelationship conflict and all
(45:57):
this sort of stuff, for a whileit's like how do you get
somebody into the abundancespiral where, like their life is
awesome and then that makestheir life more awesome, and
then like all of the things areworking because they synergize
into creating abundancebasically, rather than all of
the negative shit synergizesinto creating your own private
(46:19):
hell.
Josh Porthouse (46:20):
Yeah.
Rob Kancler (46:21):
It's just astounding the number of men who
I think are just in a uh likeabject social, intimate and
sexual poverty.
Essentially, that's likestrapped together with video
games and porn, or social mediaet cetera, et cetera.
Josh Porthouse (46:39):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, whatever the mechanism is
.
I have no idea the statisticsor the degree of accuracy about
the ones you brought up.
I'm totally ignorant to thataccuracy about the ones you
brought up.
I'm totally ignorant to that.
But what I can see, which ispretty common, is this response
(47:00):
to people being I'm not surewhat the word is unaware or
maybe unwilling to talk, to justhave open conversations.
The discourse and the inquiry, Ithink is gaining traction with
podcasts, not specifically likemine, but podcasts like these,
and it's helping.
Right, it's not just a socialcircle at the church or bingo
(47:21):
nights or wherever people mightbe otherwise forced to talk.
It's not that anymore.
It is shifting.
But I think the amount ofdignity inherent in that process
or the amount of relative gracefor any parties involved in
that process isn't there yet andI think when you have that kind
(47:41):
of maybe awareness and thatkind of capability, but to the
integrity you mentioned earlier,it's a little bit
disenfranchised or disjointed.
It still is misaligned and Ithink that causes friction.
It's like tripping on asidewalk, um, and that's going
to cause its own social problems.
(48:01):
But I think, like you broughtup, it's having a degree of
chaos and a degree of conflict.
That necessitates the awarenessand the conversation, and 100%
takes time you know.
So, yeah, I think there's a lotabout what you're saying and a
lot about what you're gettinginto.
That's true and simple tounderstand and that's what helps
, because it becomes moreresonant then.
Rob Kancler (48:24):
Yes, one thing that I think is sometimes a bit, I
don't know, confrontational orwhatever, but it seems like it's
getting worse, and I think theissues that we're kind of
talking about directly orindirectly, I think in a lot of
cases they're actually it'sgetting worse and the idea that,
(48:44):
like it'll be all right, islike I don't know that it will
be all right, like I think thatactually this might play into
this kind of complacency orcomplicitness thing again, where
people are like, oh, it'll beall right, it's not a big deal,
and like I wish that people arelike it's not all right, this is
a big deal, I need to dosomething different.
Right, cause it's like thefabric of our world, which I
(49:06):
think used to rely on thingslike church and community and
neighborhoods and all this sortof stuff for us to be, yeah, for
us to be a part of togetherness.
That stuff doesn't exist.
Like we people don't know theirneighbors, they don't go to
church, Like that's not, that'snot normal for a lot of people.
I mean, some people have greatneighborhoods and amazing church
(49:27):
communities and all that'sbeautiful, but it's not the norm
and it's less and less common.
And I think that this is reallyimportant for people to realize
, especially as it seems likeyounger generations are moving
away from alcohol.
So this like community hearthof the pub or whatever isn't
there anymore, right, Likepeople don't go out drinking
(49:47):
anymore.
So it's like more isolation,more and more isolation, and
it's sad In a way.
Yes, we could argue that peopledrinking less is a good thing,
but because that means that wedon't have a community hearth
anymore, it's like how do wereplace that?
(50:07):
If we don't have church and wedon't have drinking, how do we
have intimacy and community?
What are we doing now?
What are we going to do insteadof church and drinking?
Josh Porthouse (50:19):
Yeah, I think somewhere between the social
aspect that digitized mediaprovides and the societal
benefit that broadcast media canprovide.
100 becoming more thesupplement.
But uh, you talked about thegym earlier.
I'm sure you can attest to itas well.
Like any other supplement, themore you swap out steaks for
(50:42):
shakes, the more problems youhave, and it's just going to
compound until you go back tosteak.
You know it.
Just, you can't eat naturaldiets.
Rob Kancler (50:52):
And so it's like I love what you're saying.
Don't mean to interrupt you,but I'm enthused, go ahead, all
right.
Well, I was going to say likesteaks and steaks are shakes.
I would say that the equivalentto that is like social media
and porn or interacting withwomen, like.
And it's tricky because it'slike I socialize with podcasts,
(51:12):
I socialize by even watchingpersonal development content on
social media, where it's like,yeah, but are you actually
relating to people?
Are you being in your body?
Are you, are you experiencingintimacy and meaningful
interaction with the brothersand sisters in your community?
like that rejection, though, orfailure or vulnerability, yeah,
(51:33):
it's par for the course.
All that, totally man, hell,yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I
think that this one of theissues that when you said that,
like people just need to behonest, and I agree, I think
that communication is soimportant, but I think one of
the issues is that people don'tunderstand themselves enough to
be able to take advantage ofopportunities for connection.
That communication is soimportant, but I think one of
the issues is that people don'tunderstand themselves enough to
be able to take advantage ofopportunities for connection.
(51:54):
And and often this is from myexperience of teaching dating a
lot is like men have this habitnot all men, but a lot of men
have this habit of when they'rein an interaction with a woman,
they try to almost like say whythey're cool, right when it's
like they they like flex about,like all these things that are
(52:15):
awesome about their career ortheir life or their personality,
and it's like it's so offputting and it's immediately
just kind of like okay, likeI've seen so many women that are
trying to just, you know, bekind and accommodating, or just
like okay, like you're giving meyour CV, expecting that I'm
impressed and I don't.
I don't want this right now, youknow, yeah, so I do think that
(52:38):
there's something about likeself-awareness and social
awareness and communicationskills that it is often really
beneficial for men to takeseriously.
That you might not know, though.
You might not have those skillsunless you make a concerted
effort to develop them.
And especially, you know, Ithink, that people that are in
(52:58):
like hospitality and serviceprofessions or sales professions
might, by nature, have moresocial skills and more capacity
for calibration and empathy andunderstanding, or especially if
you work in mental health orwhatever.
Um, but I I think that it'sit's very valuable for men to
not take for granted how littleskill they have in understanding
(53:21):
how to socialize and howvaluable it might be to develop
those skills.
And I see this at a lot of a lotof people think that like if I,
if I just get really fit and Ilike focus on my business or
whatever, that like the issuesthat I have with women or with
sex or with my relationship arejust going to work themselves
out and that's wrong, likethat's not true in some cases,
(53:42):
that you know you can buildfortitude and discipline and
build character by you knowhaving a serious fitness
practice or like being anentrepreneur or whatever.
But in most cases people get tothe end of that road and they
realize that they're stillunhappy and they don't
understand so much about whatthey want and how to create it.
And I do think that there'ssuch a huge blind spot around
(54:04):
sex and intimacy and dating andcommunication and community and
all this sort of stuff wherepeople just don't know that they
don't know and they justsomehow just continue to live in
isolation and eventually we'llall be dead.
So it just seems to me like itis really valuable to take
seriously that, like maybe Idon't know the things that I
(54:26):
need to know to be able to havea life that I would feel truly
whole for me.
Josh Porthouse (54:31):
Well, and then we're back, I guess, ironically
full circle, to your wholesomepoint about identifying anything
in conversation, context,construct, concept, from a place
of curiosity, not judgment, andbeing able to develop some
degree of dignity through theprocess.
I mean, you can't you any, Iguess in the last couple minutes
(54:55):
we have.
You can't look in history, anyeon, any culture, any generation
without seeing the samecircumstantial, cosmic lessons
of humility is going to help youout in life, or reality will
introduce it to you.
You know, you've, you've got totreat people the way you want
(55:19):
to be treated right, be, bedignified in your praises and be
graceful in receiving dignity.
Same sort of, I think,appropriation to the, to the
concept and all of these othertypes of lessons where, if you
come from a place of curiosityinstead of judgment, you drop
the facade or put your ego away,or whatever other psychologist
(55:40):
you prefer to quote in thatreference.
Like you mean to tell me thatthis many billions of people, at
least that have been on theearth, let alone anything
outside of recorded history, areall saying the same things,
having never met each other, andthere's no truth to those.
Yeah Well.
I love this quote.
Rob Kancler (55:57):
I'm totally with you, man.
I love this quote.
It's something like one thingthat we can learn from history
is that people don't learn fromhistory.
Josh Porthouse (56:06):
Yes, I like that .
I like that, yep, and then then.
But by the same token, I talkedto a guy last week and he said
history does not repeat itself.
He was a cop in baltimore.
Said history does not repeatitself, it rhymes.
I like that.
I like that's cool, right, yeahbaltimore pd dude crazy stories
(56:30):
.
But let me ask you this, I guessto close us out at this point,
we're out of time.
So for anybody that wants toget in touch with you, follow
along with your journey, learnfrom you, become a client,
anything and everything.
Where do people go?
How do they get in touch withyou?
Rob Kancler (56:44):
Yeah, thank you.
So we are just going throughlike a rebranding process right
now.
But if you go to hdbedroomcomor hdbdrmcom, you can put it
either way, or if you prefer amore fun URL.
I hate not having great sex.
All the timecom is also anotherway that you can find me.
(57:04):
People remember that one.
So I hate not having sex.
All the timecom is is a way tofind me, or you can just look up
my name on all the varioussocials and that's a place where
people can get in touch.
I'm happy to answer anyquestions or share resources or
let you know about the stuffthat I got coming up sweet.
Josh Porthouse (57:22):
Yeah, okay, well , I appreciate that.
And for anybody who's new toour show, like every other
conversation we've had,depending on the player, you're
streaming this conversation orwatching it on click see more,
click show more.
And in the drop downdescription for the conversation
, you'll see links to Rob'swebsites and his social, and
you'll be able to find him thereas well.
So if you're trying to figureout, I need to write down and
(57:44):
copy down the URL.
You don't?
It's under this conversation.
Track it down, click on it.
That'll be easy as well.
But, dude, I really appreciatethe opportunity.
Again, I wasn't sure where thiswas going to go to be.
Yeah, man, but it was good,dude honestly like I still feel
more.
Rob Kancler (58:00):
You know I'm happy to follow the flow here, but
thinking of the themes that Iknow that you have for the show
around transacting value andexploring values, drivendriven
life, that both of those thingsare topics that I feel so
inspired and energized aroundand I do think I mentioned this
when we were not rolling that Ithink that the value that we can
(58:23):
contribute, or the value thatwe can receive in sex
specifically, is so profound andone of the most untapped,
underutilized and misunderstoodparts of the human experience
that people I could say thatlike people have been eating
donuts their whole life and theydon't realize that that's not
food because they've only been,they've only been exposed to
(58:44):
donuts.
My former collaborator, michael,coined that one where it's like
, yeah, if you grew up in aworld where the only thing that
you ever saw people eating wasdonuts, you would just think
donuts are food.
Right, like you wouldn't belike, oh, I'm missing a ribeye.
You wouldn't even know thatthat was a thing.
You would just be like, oh,donuts, like I like donuts.
(59:06):
That's what people are doingwith sex.
It's like you don't even knowthat there's a such thing.
That's not donuts.
Josh Porthouse (59:15):
Oh, it's the red pill, blue pill, man.
You know you just, it'll bewhat it is till it changes to
something else, I guess.
Um, but yeah, I, I appreciatethe opportunity.
Uh, we'll be staying in touch,I'm sure, and then later on in
in the year see how this journeyhas been evolving for you and
maybe get you back on.
But I really do appreciate it,man, your perspective, your time
(59:35):
, the conversation, your abilityto actually converse about it
objectively, scientifically,from a few different angles.
It was good.
I really enjoyed it.
Rob Kancler (59:46):
So thanks for all of those things thank you, josh,
and thank you for doing thisshow too.
I've had lots of conversationswith podcast hosts and seen a
lot of behind the scenes in thepodcasting world, and it seems
like there's a lot of heart andintention behind what you're
doing here, so thank you forthat.
Generally, thanks for having meon.
Josh Porthouse (01:00:05):
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that To
everybody else who's tuned intothis conversation and who's been
watching and staying along withus.
I appreciate you guys fortuning in.
I'm going to leave you withthis.
Go to our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom, and
on the home screen not only canyou access all of our other
conversations, but in the topright-hand corner there's a
little button that says leave avoicemail Two minutes of talk
(01:00:27):
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Here's a recommendation from meto you what you can do with that
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The topics, the guests, thequestions I ask, the style,
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Feedback helps and we can havean open and honest dialogue
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Secondly, tell Rob what youthink about his material.
(01:00:49):
Let him know what you thoughtabout the conversation, the
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how all of us learn.
We got to have the dialogue andthen we'll send that audio file
to Rob and so you guys can getin touch and connect that way as
well.
But for right now, rob, again Iappreciate your time, everybody
else.
Thank you for yours and untilnext time.
(01:01:18):
That was Transacting Value.
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That was Transacting Value.
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
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supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Rob Kancler (00:49):
There was something in me that was like I cannot
just be complicit with, like myinherited idea about my
sexuality.
There was something in me thatwas just like no, no, I need to
figure this out.
I need to know what this isLike.
This is singularly the mostimportant thing for me to learn
about.
Josh Porthouse (01:07):
Today on Transacting Value.
What do you do when it'suncomfortable, being vulnerable?
Probably freeze up, but whatimpact does stress have on that
and can it help the process?
More importantly, what does itdo to your relationships with
yourself and with other people?
The process?
More importantly, what does itdo to your relationships with
yourself and with other people?
We're talking with men'ssexuality and trauma coach, rob
(01:29):
Kanzler.
All about it.
I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm yourhost and from SDYT Media.
This is Transacting Value, rob.
What's up man?
How you doing.
Rob Kancler (01:40):
I'm doing well, Josh.
Thanks for having me Happy tobe here.
Josh Porthouse (01:43):
Thanks for coming on the show, man.
There's a lot of things thatwhen I first heard you were
going to come on the show, I gotnervous about.
I don't know where thisconversation is going to go.
I don't know what questionsyou're going to ask or how the
conversation is going to getdiverted and I'm going to say
stuff I'm not comfortable orready for, I have to imagine, in
your line of workprofessionally.
That's a common response toknowing that a session comes up
(02:04):
with you.
Rob Kancler (02:06):
Well, I think that there's something indicative
about a greater cultural themethat, even though sex is such an
essential part of being a humanbeing, there's so give nor, in
a way, normalizing a culture ofhonest communication and just
(02:30):
like simple information sharing.
And you know, one way that Icould maybe weave this in is
that I think most men have neverhad a grounded, open
conversation with other menabout sex.
That's probably accurate.
It's so often this machismothing or this flex type of
(02:54):
energy or some sort of weirdsexism locker room thing that
the bros just get into orwhatever.
But a conversation with two men,two brothers are just openly
discussing what is yourexperience, what is it like for
you being a?
You know not that anyconversation would necessarily
sound like this, but like, yeah,what's going on in your sexual
(03:17):
life Like, what's that like foryou?
And so much of this part ofbeing a human being is so in
isolation, right.
So this, this ends up uh, youknow, let's see how deep we want
to go into this direction orwhatever other ones is that we
end up being educated bypornography, by kind of like
(03:39):
secondary impacts of, uh,religion or all kinds of other
stuff, that the trauma of ourparents, the confusion of our
parents, the whatever sort ofrole model or examples that we
get when we're little of whatintimate relationships are
supposed to be, that we take allthat stuff on and then usually
we just keep it in and we liveit out without actually engaging
(04:02):
or being educated from sourcesthat understand how to have
healthy and fulfilling lives andsexual lives so I'm curious
your, I guess, opinion orposition on this, because
whenever I hear topics in anysense frame, fashion or scope
(04:24):
about sex and sexuality, it'salways physical and I don't know
that it is.
Josh Porthouse (04:29):
In fact, I don't think that it is.
However, that's generally theconnotation and maybe that's why
a lot of these culturalconsiderations about, let's say,
conversations about sex andsexuality, especially among men
or even just between two dudes,is such a weird sort of
uncomfortable conversation topic, because you're talking about
(04:53):
physical stuff that now neitherof you can relate to.
There's no grounding, becauseit's not physical between the
two of you.
It's mental or cognitive orbehavioral maybe, but that's it,
and so how do you talk aboutsomething in common when you
have none of it in common?
And it's all based on empathy,right, and I think that's a
difficult thing to do.
However, before I get to that,how do you get into something
(05:18):
like this?
Can you just take a coupleminutes and explain to me for a
second who you are, where you'refrom, what sort of things are
shaping your perspective on theworld to make this a career
choice?
Rob Kancler (05:28):
Sure, yeah, and in a way I heard somebody say this
once and it does resonate that Ihear a lot of folks talking
about like choosing their lifepath or figuring out what they
want to be when they grow up orwhatever, and I feel like my
life in many ways hasn't givenme the luxury of that.
And I don't know, I don't knowif this is just like language,
(05:52):
communicating somethingintangible, but I often feel
like, with this particularcareer path or whatever, in so
many areas of my life it feelslike this has just been the path
that it would almost be weirdif I didn't end up here, given
who I am and what has happenedto me?
Yeah, like it's not.
Like I woke up one day it waslike, oh, I want to like pursue
(06:15):
sex education or whatever as acareer.
It was more so that, like, thiswas just the trajectory of my
life.
And here I am, 35 years later,in this position where people
refer to me as whatever titlesmight be appropriate.
But yeah, your question.
I don't mean to discredit it.
(06:35):
I think it's a worthwhile thingto give people context how I
ended up in this position andwhy I'm talking to you with the
premise set up this way.
Josh Porthouse (06:44):
It's interesting .
Rob Kancler (06:46):
Yeah, it's unusual.
You're right.
I think that for a lot ofpeople, yeah, they have a
similar question.
So I can say that, like from afrom a young age and I I don't
know that I would have put wordsto it until pretty recently,
and the way that I'm about towords to it until pretty
(07:07):
recently, in the way that I'mabout to, I just had this sense
that the thing that I was toldsex was wasn't true, like it
wasn't a complete answer to likewhat is sex and how is it
relevant and how do you do it,and like what is this about?
That I was, as we all are,informed about this through all
(07:29):
these different sources andthere was just something in me
that was like I don't buy it,like I don't think that we
understand this.
This doesn't satisfy some sortof intuition that I have about
this subject, some sort ofintuition that I have about this
subject and that, combined witha couple other factors one of
(07:50):
them, I would say is is, uh,like insecurity and probably
unworthiness, like something inme that was like the way that
I'm going to get love andbelonging is to like solve the
puzzle of female emotional andsexual needs, that the way that
(08:10):
I'm going to get love andbelonging and security and find
my place in the world and havepeople like me and to have
access to community and familyand all that or whatever is.
I'm gonna hack this thing andthus I'm going to be okay, right
, like.
I remember that and I thinkthis is really normal to a
(08:33):
certain extent.
I think that young menespecially, but probably all men
, especially, especially with anew lover that we want to be
impressive, we want to show thatwe are beautiful and valuable
and that we're unique and canprovide something special for a
(08:53):
woman.
I think this is a very normalpart of the male experience is
wanting to, to offer somethingmeaningful to a woman in, in sex
, especially at the beginning ofa relationship, and I think
that I took that to a a prettyunusual degree of like.
I need to know like, like,almost as like an obsession,
(09:14):
like how do I learn about thissubject?
How do I, how do I become awholly satisfying lover, even
like better than anybody else,so that I potentially contend
with this deep sense ofunworthiness and self-hatred?
Josh Porthouse (09:39):
frankly, yeah, and again, you can be as
vulnerable as you want.
But where does something likethat come from?
Because it doesn't sounduncommon to me.
Rob Kancler (10:16):
And it does seem like at the root of it and when
we start talking about traumaespecially folks who haven't
been exposed to theseconversations they typically
think of, like what folks in thelike therapy world or the
trauma healing world say isepisodic trauma, like something
that, for example, like peoplethat experience PTSD because of
being in active duty and likesee something really extreme or
experience something reallyextreme that we could say that
it's like episodic trauma, likethat something happened, like
there was a, an incident and,yeah, some something really
intense happened and the systemis rocked and it it takes a
(10:39):
unique approach to integrate it.
The more prevalent kind oftrauma, which sometimes can be
kind of crazy making becauseit's difficult to validate, is
neglect, and I think neglectthat I would say that I think
almost everybody that I haveexplored with in any way to be
(11:04):
able to give my two cents aboutit it seems like there is
developmental trauma related toneglect.
Some theories that I have aboutthis are that we are designed I
mean, I don't mean to be likebringing any sort of like
religious connotation to it, butlike our, our hardware, the way
(11:27):
that we are as mammals isdesigned, that we are meant to
be accompanied by adults as wedevelop system that can process
intense experiences and regulateon its own until seven or eight
(11:48):
at least, like you literallydon't even have the hardware to
do that.
You have to, you have to like.
Literally you require adultnervous systems to digest
intense experiences and regulateyour body Like fundamentally
you cannot.
You cannot do that essentialfunction without adult nervous
(12:12):
systems until you're much lateron in development.
And I think what ends uphappening is because you know,
necessarily we run into thingsthat are intense and the adults
around us don't have thecapacity to be present to their
own feelings, nevermind whatgoes on for others, that
(12:34):
something that we couldeffectively call neglect happens
, that we ended up being alone.
Josh Porthouse (12:42):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Ad (12:47):
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Rob Kancler (13:27):
You know, necessarily we run into things
that are intense and the adultsaround us don't have the
capacity to be present to theirown feelings, nevermind what
goes on for others, thatsomething that we could
effectively call neglect happens, that we ended up being alone.
Okay, and I think that this isthis is a pretty consequential
thing, because we are not meantto deal with our, our lives by
ourselves, especially when we'relittle, that we need to be
(13:50):
accompanied.
We need we need that, and Idon't mean not to like
romanticize what it is to be ahuman being, and often when we
start talking about this stuff,it almost like invokes a sort of
romanticization of the humanexperience, and I think it's
really important to be clearthat, like we're talking about
biology, like this is not like,oh, it's cool to like feel your
(14:13):
feelings or like have empathy orlike have somebody be with you
and your feelings and that's youknow.
Like whatever you think aboutthat is irrelevant.
What I want to highlight is,like this is about biology, like
this is a fundamental realitythat we are hack animals and our
the way that we deal withgestation and developmental
sequence with young ones is suchthat they literally require
(14:38):
attuned adult nervous systems todevelop correctly, like
fundamentally, they need thatand in the West they they don't
get that and it's been you knowhundreds or thousands of years,
since that was the way that weare.
And yeah, there's manydirections that we can go, but
I'm curious how this lands foryou at this point.
Josh Porthouse (14:58):
Oh, my most immediate question is what is
your baseline for comparison?
You said Westernized culture,but compared to what?
Rob Kancler (15:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's some research thatI've seen and I know some kind
of anecdotal stuff from folksthat I know that have lived with
indigenous people and like, forexample, one interesting
analogy is that a friend of minewho lived with pygmies in
Africa for an extended period oftime he said that he had never,
ever, seen a baby like or orthrow up in a place where it
(15:30):
wasn't supposed to.
That not only its own mother,but all of the childbearing
women in the community, or justthe women in the community, are
so attuned to the bodies ofthese little humans that they
just know that they need to takecare of business, that it's
like they don't have diapers.
(15:50):
They're not like.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they don't even have themeans to take care of these sort
of things.
It's almost like they are.
They are an embodied extensionof the adults in the community
and we don't have that.
We don't have that, and I thinkthat it's definitely more
commercialized yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's like what, what?
What ends up happening is thatwe adapt to figure out.
(16:12):
How do we deal with the factthat we're not able to process
our experiences and digest whathappens to us?
But also, how do we develop apersonality or personas that
allows us to get love and avoidharm?
Josh Porthouse (16:28):
Does that sort of let's just call it trauma,
because it's not always going tobe witting and it's not always
going to be willing from anyparties involved, right,
sometimes it just happens andyou don't know until hindsight
from anybody involved.
Sometimes it just happens andyou don't know until hindsight
from anybody involved.
But that kind of trauma I thinkcan manifest as sort of maybe
(16:53):
even intentional distancing.
Let's say it's rooted in fearor discomfort or uncertainty or
any of these other types ofpositions, mindsets.
You brought up the militaryearlier, which is the majority
of my professional life in theMarine Corps, infantry, and
intentional distancing isnecessary, in fact it's
encouraged.
It becomes the platform thatthe majority of us, in every
(17:16):
platoon that I was ever in,communicated from as a point of
commonality, of commonality, andI found, at least in my
experience, that it deepened ourrelationships.
And this is before, at least inthe US and in the Marine Corps
infantry, women were allowed inthe infantry and as infantrymen,
and so it was all guys.
(17:38):
But what we had in common, whatwe would talk about, you know,
long walks or late nights orwhatever was more what we called
intentionally distancing fromwhatever On a deployment.
Maybe it's bills, maybe it'sfamily.
Maybe it's whatever, but it wasthe way to cope and process and
(17:59):
focus and actually put distancebetween those catalysts and
whatever we were going through.
But that's neglectintentionally.
Are they associated orcorrelated at all, do you think?
Rob Kancler (18:15):
It's a fascinating question.
My immediate impulse is I don'tknow and I'm curious about what
you say.
I'm like, oh, that's that'sinteresting and I can relate to
it in some way.
But I'm also just interested tounderstand.
Your experience feels uniqueand I get the sense that I don't
fully understand where you'recoming from, which is cool.
(18:35):
I'm like, oh, tell me more.
Um, so, the people that I'velearned from and, uh, I've read
a lot of books on the subjectthat it seems like what trauma
is about is too much and I'malone, like something happens
that's too intense and now I'mby myself to deal with it.
(18:56):
Oh, okay, okay, like.
So that's what I understand isthe foundation, and it can be
like too much, too fast, toointense, like something happens
that's too intense for me toprocess in the moment and now
I'm by myself to deal with it.
So the way that I've heard itframed is like the trauma is the
(19:16):
response.
It's not even the incidentRight, which is trippy Like.
Trauma is the way that werespond to not being able to
integrate what happened.
Trauma is not the thingnecessarily.
Trauma is the, the adaptationor the reaction to an intense
experience that we don't havethe resources or capacity to
(19:37):
process and yeah, I mean it's a,it's a profound thing.
And again, I do really like tohighlight here that like it's
useful to separate our sort oflike narrative about about like
a room, a romanticization of thehuman experience, from by
biological reality.
(19:59):
Like that's not how I am, butit's like you're a mammal, like
that's how your nervous systemis.
It's not like I understand.
I understand that there's likepersonality variation and that
there's value of like stoicismand that people have incredible
will and skills for navigatinglife and all of that.
(20:21):
But the reality of like, whenwe have experiences that are too
much and then we are justisolated, that that changes the
brain, it changes the nervoussystem, it changes the way that
we are.
Because we have to, we have tocarry on with a part of us not
being integrated, that there'slike a fragmentation.
(20:42):
We have to proceed to live byhaving a like, a construct of a
personality that has this otherthing like bolted onto it.
That's not integrated.
Or it's like something happenedto me, something happened to me
and like I don't know how toinclude it in who I am.
Yeah, and it's like the thingthat most people are carrying
(21:02):
isn't related to war or combat.
It's related to I was a littlekid and I was by myself and I
was scared and confused andangry and sad and happy and
inspired and I wasn't supportedto meet that and to have that
(21:23):
proliferate, you know, and thatthat is traumatic.
It is traumatic and I again,it's like it's traumatic on the
level of biology, on the levelof the nervous system, not on
the level of like, oh, that wassuch a you know, like was it a
bad thing, was it not?
Like that that conversation canget really intangible or like
(21:44):
opinionated and think the thingthat's like this is just a, this
is the reality of a biologicalsystem, is a much easier
conversation to have because itit necessarily kind of strips
from opinion.
It's just like it's a body likethat, it's just a nervous
system, that's how it works okay.
Josh Porthouse (22:06):
Well then, let's talk a little bit more
objectively grounded about someof these things.
Stress, for example, cortisolspikes, hormones go all
different directions and levelsfor any random periods of time
and one of two things happen,right, you either can't focus or
(22:26):
you can.
I think, interestingly, both ofthem are a response to whatever
traumatic event occurred andit's all the same catalyst.
I don't know what to do here.
Tunnel vision, and then youprocess, you know, to whatever
(22:46):
the extent is after the fact.
Yes.
So what is your opinion on theimpacts of a high stress
environment, occupationally,circumstantially qualified, how
you want, on somebody'sobjective, maybe biological
ability to regulate themselves,to better align and identify as
(23:08):
themselves?
Again, yeah, or at all it's acool inquiry.
Rob Kancler (23:14):
One thing that comes up is flow like flow
states right, like how.
From my experiences, I would saythat there's two categorically
different kinds of flow.
One of them is like based onadrenaline, and the other one is
based on just kind of likebeing in the pocket and just
like the way that, like jazzmusicians are just you know,
(23:36):
they're just in the pocket andyeah, that's interesting.
It's something that I thinkwe'll understand more about in
the next years as there's moreresearch.
That I think we'll understandmore about in the next years is
there's more research, but thethe different there's.
Experientially, it seems likethere's two totally different
kinds of flow that havecommonalities but are very
different.
One of them is like cortisoland adrenaline.
So you're like super focused,because often there's high
(23:58):
stakes and if you up, it's notokay.
Like if you're you know ifyou're like on a mountain bike
going down a hill really fast.
Like if you're you know ifyou're like on a mountain bike
going down a hill really fast,you're not, you don't have add
anymore, because you're notgonna, you're not gonna be okay.
Like if you start thinkingabout something that's not in
the moment, you're gonna hit atree and you're not gonna be,
you're not gonna go well.
(24:19):
So I imagine the same thing istrue in combat scenarios, in
whatever case, whether it'smartial arts or war or you know
whatever scenario where it'slike yeah so, and I think that
this is something that comeswith training, that I imagine in
your military training samewith people who are emts or they
(24:39):
work in the er, whatever thatyou get trained to respond in
high stress environments bybasically like habituating
yourself to protocols, I assumeright when it's like you learn
that like I got a checklist likewe do these things in a
scenario like this to ensurethat everything happens the way
it's supposed to and we havegood outcomes and if things are
(25:01):
safe as possible.
Josh Porthouse (25:04):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Join us for Transacting Value,where we discuss practical
applications of personal values,every Monday at 9am on our
websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom,
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays atnoon on wreathsacrossamericaorg
slash radio.
Rob Kancler (25:32):
I got a checklist Like we do these things in a
scenario like this to ensurethat everything happens the way
it's supposed to and we havegood outcomes and if things are
safe as possible.
Josh Porthouse (25:38):
Well, ideally also, some of that is to give
you something to focus on, ofthat is to give you something to
focus on.
So the the psychological ideaand to, I guess, maybe even a a
greater degree that thephysiological idea behind the
premise you just brought up is,colloquially, in the dod, the
department of defense, trainedto a standard brilliance in the
(26:00):
basics, right.
But the idea is, the reasoningis because when, inevitably, you
become so stressed that, forwhatever reason, you start to
panic or, like we would call it,go internal, you just can't
focus on outside your body,you're stuck in your body that
you need things that don'trequire fine motor skills and so
(26:27):
, metaphorically, those finemotor skills may be the
checklist instead of the detailsin the moment that's happening
during an explosion or or or anambush or something.
Okay, let me take stock ofwhat's here.
My hands are on the ground, I'mbreathing, I don't know where I
am, what's happening, why Ican't hear anything.
(26:47):
I don't know why I can't seeanything.
It's dusty, okay, but you knowyou can't see anything.
You know it's dusty.
You know your head you can feelRight.
So it's the metaphorical finemotor skills that you wean out
through this checklist typementality.
But I guess psychologically aswell.
But physiologically I can'tfocus enough to push the buttons
(27:09):
on this radio to call for airsupport, but I can use the
entirety of my hand to mash aspot on here or the corner of my
hand, or I can't pull mytrigger to fire back because I
don't know, because I can't feelmy fingers.
Rob Kancler (27:29):
There's no blood in my extremities right, that's a
physiological response to shock.
It's a fear response.
It's a fear response, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (27:35):
Sure, yeah, and or blood loss, I guess,
depending on your circumstance,but you know I physically can't
do this, and so instead then wewould also have training drills.
I spent seven months a fewhours north of the Arctic Circle
a couple years ago, and one ofthe drills that we worked
(28:01):
through was put on mittens andthen go shoot at targets
accurately, and so we took thetrigger guard off and instead of
using one finger, we fourfingers, your whole hand, but
for the same exact sort ofrepetitional exposure to what do
you do when your fingers arenumb for any number of
causational reasons or causes, Iguess, um, and so, yeah, I
(28:22):
agree with what you're saying,that it gives a little bit of
structure to the chaos in ametaphorical sense, but also
psychologically, physiologically, I mean, there's a lot of
benefits to this sort oftraining, to a standard or this
brilliance in the basics concept, and that actually very nicely
brings me back full circle.
The basics, I think, ofcommunication, like you said
(28:47):
earlier on, is honestcommunication in conversation
and simplified informationsharing.
I can happen in a dialogue whenthere's no pretense, it comes
from curiosity, not judgment, orthe facades dropped.
And so when I hear you saythings like two men talking
(29:08):
about sexuality.
Okay, what's that look like?
What's the list of things we'regoing to discuss then?
It's just like what's on themenu today, steve.
You know you just you justbreak it down and talk and it
changes everything.
Because there's not like thisconversation.
There's not.
Because there's not like thisconversation.
There's not judgment, there'snot a pretense, it's just an
(29:30):
honest conversation with simpleinformation sharing.
And so how do you do that withwhat I'm assuming at least the
first time total strangers?
Rob Kancler (29:40):
It's a great question.
Yeah, like part of the premiseof the work that I do is, uh, we
begin with context setting.
So I had a formative experience.
I lived in germany for two anda half years, something like
that, and one of my flatmateswhen I was living in berlin, he,
uh, he learned about what I doand what I was interested in.
(30:01):
And he, from just like a placeof innocence, like almost like
his little boy, came out andhe's like we teach me, me some
stuff, like he was like, and myresponse was like sure, man, why
, why do you want to know?
Like what do you?
What do you want to know?
And why, like, why do you wantto know more about sex?
And he was stumped.
(30:21):
I remember he was just like Idon't know.
And I sat with him for a minuteand I was like well, let's
think about it.
Why do you want to learn moreabout this subject?
Why do you like it?
I think this is very commonthat he was just puzzled.
(30:41):
He was like I don't know, Idon't even know why I'm so
interested in this subject.
And we could say that there'slike biological drivers, there's
like hedonism or whatever.
There's like the notch in yourbelt thing, like status or
because it's yeah, now I cantalk about it whatever, yeah,
totally.
But.
But I remember his his responsewas so innocent and sweet that
(31:04):
he was, he was just literally,he's like because my d*** feels
good, and like that was whatcame to mind for him and it was
like cool, yeah, like that's a.
I appreciate the honesty andthe sincerity of it, but like,
let's unpack this more Like,let's look like what do you?
Why does this matter?
What do you care about?
(31:24):
So maybe this is a segue intothe topic at hand, or the topics
at hand with your podcast isaround values.
So, for me, what is at thecenter of my work is this
inquiry around sexual integrityand integrity in general, where
I would say that I think aboutintegrity not not from the
(31:44):
perspective of like morality orwhatever, like ethical
considerations, the way thatthat word is usually used.
I think about integrity asbeing intact, like,
etymologically and historically,composition yes, exactly Like
the.
So etymologically, the wordintegrity means like wholeness.
(32:06):
So this is this is huge when westart to have a conversation
about sex from a place of like.
How do I be intact as a man,Like, how do I have a sense of
energetic wholeness as a humanbeing with regards to this thing
called sex and sexuality andthe fact that I have these
(32:28):
biological drivers and emotionaldrivers and energetic drivers
and hormones and all this stuff.
Like what do I do to be inintegrity with the reality of
being a man with regards to sex?
And that, to me, is the premiseof the conversation that I have
with people.
It's, you know, which caninclude like technique and
(32:49):
understanding orgasm andunderstanding women, and you
know a lot of people typicallycome with like the same issues.
We can get into it in a secondbut, like you know, the typical
that you would imagine likepeople are like my doesn't work,
like ejaculation and erectionconcerns, or they have
performance anxiety, or theywant to understand female
pleasure and orgasm, or theywant more sex or better sex, or
(33:13):
they feel like their partnerisn't, is like too modest, or
it's her issues that that arethe reason why we don't have a
better sex life.
Like it's it's just the same.
I hear just the same couplethings.
Like almost always it's justthe same few things.
And when we orient, we addressall that stuff and we orient to
(33:35):
it from the perspective ofintegrity because it's like
there's so much more energy tochange things and to do deep
work and to create new habitsand to infuse our heart and our
intentions into the way that wemake love and hold this part of
our life and our most importantrelationship from an
(33:58):
understanding of what reallymatters.
Where it's like when youconnect to the why, like the
sense of what we talk about,this, this term, formative
intent.
Where it's like when youconnect to the why, like the
sense of what we talk about,this, this term, formative
intent.
Where it's like when you canreally connect to like this is
like the deep meaning that Ihave for my life and for my
sexual life and for myrelationship, then it's so much
easier to be like okay, doesthis match or does this not?
(34:19):
Is this an integrity issue or isthis the way that I'm supposed
to be in the world?
Or is this the way that I'msupposed to be in the world?
For example, like some of thelanguage that comes up, a lot
for me and for other people islike it's about an expression of
natural love.
It's an expression of aliveness.
It's an expression of like my,my aliveness and my primality
and the impact that my woman hason my vitality being circulated
(34:42):
back to her as an expression oflove and adoration for her and
for her beauty and for herdedication to me and for my
dedication to her.
That it's like that is aprofoundly energizing reason,
let's say, to investigate whatare we doing or what don't we
know yet, or how beautiful couldthis really get?
Because it matters, Like itmatters, Because this sense of
(35:07):
like do you want to just be abetter lover that usually kind
of goes into more like egoicthings.
Josh Porthouse (35:13):
Or like hedonism A little more superficial in
comparison.
Exactly.
Rob Kancler (35:16):
Like hedonism right , it's either like I want
sensory indulgence or egoindulgence or, on the other side
of it, which I think issomething that people don't
realize as much as it actuallyis the case, is that people use
sex and ejaculation as a meansfor regulation, that they use it
as like endogenous drugs,basically where, like your body
(35:40):
has the capacity to release pentup tension and stored emotion
that we don't know how torelease on our own by
ejaculating.
So like that's what people do,and they don't realize that,
like it is in effect anaddiction.
It's basically like the bodydoes not know how to regulate
and come back to equilibrium.
(36:00):
So I can do this mechanisticrelease thing called ejaculation
that releases some tension inmy body and in my pelvic floor
that I don't otherwise know howto regulate, and I also get to
experience the kind ofendogenous chemical change that
happens in my brain when Iejaculate.
No-transcript.
(36:52):
But they just get in it andthey just live in this old
information and they don'trealize that there is, or there
could very easily could be adifferent scenario or there
could very easily could be adifferent scenario.
So this comes back to the thingof trauma where, like a lot of
it is just like there's oldinformation playing in a nervous
system and we habituate to itand then we think it's our
(37:14):
personality and then it getsvery difficult to change because
we don't have any real reasonto.
It's like complacency, right,or it's like it's okay, I can
just live.
I can just live like this andit's fine.
And I think that this is such abig problem and I see this as a
big issue with men specificallythat there's almost like this,
like coolness or thisnonchalance that's almost like a
(37:35):
big part of especially theAmerican male ego persona thing.
It's like it's cool to likejust be chill and be cool with
things and like there are somepeople that I know are like the
thing that makes them sosuccessful is that they insist
that they're really like this isnot okay, like I am absolutely
(37:56):
not going to stand for thisbeing my life or the life of
people that I love, or asituation that I observe in the
world.
That's not cool, it's not okay,I will not stand for this.
And it seems like this is verycounter this thing that I think
our anger is a really importantdriver to be like cut the.
Something needs to change that.
(38:18):
There's this thing that happenswith a lot of men, especially
younger men.
Well, I don't know, I don'tknow if younger, older
generations have it more or lessdefinitely very different and
significant thinking of like mydad's generation and like
younger dudes that I know at thegym that it's almost like
there's this sense of like.
The way that you be cool andrespectable is by demonstrating
(38:39):
that you're like, emotionlessand have like a nonchalance
about everything, and I thinkthat's actually an expression of
like losing our aliveness.
It's a kind of disembodimentthat we don't think it's safe to
be in our bodies, where ourlike, the body, intelligence,
like there's like anger issupposed to help us move through
(38:59):
things that need to change orto say stop or to be like no.
Josh Porthouse (39:07):
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
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Josh Porthouse (39:40):
Anger is supposed to help us move through
things that need to change orto say stop or to be like no,
and we think that yeah oh, I wasjust gonna say that a lot of
that distancing isn't alwaysintentional, and I mean not from
a place of purpose intentional,not from a place of purpose
(40:03):
intentional, but from a place of, maybe, emulation intentional
because you don't know anybetter and it's still then
rooted in some degree of ofignorance, I think and you
mentioned complacency earlier.
I don't know, based on thatdefinition, maybe complicity is
a little bit more suited in somecircumstances, because then you
(40:24):
, you, you don't know why you'redoing what you're doing, but
you know you're doing somethingthat you otherwise wouldn't do.
Why am I doing this?
I don't know, but I'm going todo it, whatever it is Talk this
way, dress this way, act thisway.
Yes, because you get put into aposition where you just don't
(40:44):
know if there's a right way oran appropriate way to respond to
something.
Rob Kancler (40:47):
Yes, so this circles back to the thing that I
was saying about like how did Iend up in the position that I'm
in, which I think I can comeback to this more is that there
was something in me that waslike I cannot just be complicit
with, like my inherited ideaabout my sexuality.
There was something in me thatwas just like no, no, I need to
figure this out, I need to knowwhat this is Like.
(41:09):
Like it almost just seemed likelike life or death, almost like
this is singularly the mostimportant thing for me to learn
about, and I took it very, veryseriously and I did a tremendous
amount of personal exploration,like a little bit of like
self-pleasure stuff, but mostlyjust like a lot of time with
women, a lot of time, and I'vehad some amazing teachers and
(41:32):
different kind of spiritualtraditions and some true mystics
, like real spiritualpractitioners that are almost
like a different, a differentversion of a human, basically,
that have given me some keys andopened the doors, because
previous to meeting some ofthese people and also previous
to the things that I juststumbled into in my own sexual
(41:55):
explorations, I had no contextfor at all, like I didn't even
know that that was a thing Likewhat I have effectively been
able to continue to recreate andrecreate in my life with more
and more and more depth andbeauty over the years, and to
support tons of men fromdifferent backgrounds and being
able to become pioneers of theirown sexual life, is that like
(42:20):
you can experience somethingthat is like a psychedelic or
religious experience by havingsex all the time, and the power
of that experience is so, it'sso formative.
It changes a man, it changes aperson, it changes a woman.
(42:41):
To get rid of all of that shameand to, in a way, have to
transcend our ego and our fearand our, our contracted sense of
who we are, to be able to openinto that kind of expanded state
of consciousness and and unity,or whatever we want to call it,
the well, there's thatintegrity you talked about
(43:03):
earlier.
Josh Porthouse (43:05):
I don't know what if you don't.
You know there's plenty ofpeople that don't have that
degree of companionship or livein some degree of neglect or
fear about finding it.
And so I mean then what?
Rob Kancler (43:21):
So there's a couple different things that I think
we're touching here.
One of them is this pervasiveand super common theme of
isolation in the world, and theother thing is like how marriage
is less and less commonstatistically, like less people
(43:41):
are getting married, less peopleare having kids.
I read some statistic recentlythat 50% of American adults have
not had sex in the past 12months.
50% of all American adults havenot had sex in the past 12
months.
Is what?
the long time.
Yeah, half of all the humans inone year have not had sex wild
(44:07):
and like.
Divorce rates are insanely high.
Marriage rates are lower, lower.
So it's like clearly there'ssomething going on right, like
clearly, and I think thatthere's influences, like I think
pornography actually affects usa lot, a lot, a lot hugely.
I think dating apps do too.
I think that the fact that somany people are able to get
(44:27):
their survival needs met by notsocializing very much which is
new in the world, like thathasn't been going on for very
long that it makes it so thatthere's so many dudes who just
like play video games and have atech job, who don't know how to
talk to women and they watchporn all the time, so they don't
even really have, like, thisbiological urge to be like how
(44:50):
do I change this?
Because they have a activesexual life with tons of women
in this like hyper, hyper,normal stimulus in front of
their computer and off every day.
So there you know, there'slayers and layers of influence,
and I think that that is alsostacked on tombo, this
developmental neglect thing thatalmost everybody has.
So so I think it just createsthis fabric where, like, we are
(45:13):
so disintegrated from thereality of our unity, that we
are herd animals, like we're not.
We're not individuals.
Like we are a pack we are meantto be in a shared co-living
experience with a big group.
Like that's how we developed infamily and community.
And you know, that's just how weare and that's not the way that
(45:35):
people live and it is extremelyunhealthy and it is difficult
to get out of because peopledon't know how to relate.
So when they try to interactwith people, it's weird and
people don't like it and it justit's like the negativity begets
negativity begets negativity.
And one thing that I you knowfrom coaching men around dating
and sex and attraction andrelationship conflict and all
(45:57):
this sort of stuff, for a whileit's like how do you get
somebody into the abundancespiral where, like their life is
awesome and then that makestheir life more awesome, and
then like all of the things areworking because they synergize
into creating abundancebasically, rather than all of
the negative shit synergizesinto creating your own private
(46:19):
hell.
Josh Porthouse (46:20):
Yeah.
Rob Kancler (46:21):
It's just astounding the number of men who
I think are just in a uh likeabject social, intimate and
sexual poverty.
Essentially, that's likestrapped together with video
games and porn, or social mediaet cetera, et cetera.
Josh Porthouse (46:39):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, whatever the mechanism is
.
I have no idea the statisticsor the degree of accuracy about
the ones you brought up.
I'm totally ignorant to thataccuracy about the ones you
brought up.
I'm totally ignorant to that.
But what I can see, which ispretty common, is this response
(47:00):
to people being I'm not surewhat the word is unaware or
maybe unwilling to talk, to justhave open conversations.
The discourse and the inquiry, Ithink is gaining traction with
podcasts, not specifically likemine, but podcasts like these,
and it's helping.
Right, it's not just a socialcircle at the church or bingo
(47:21):
nights or wherever people mightbe otherwise forced to talk.
It's not that anymore.
It is shifting.
But I think the amount ofdignity inherent in that process
or the amount of relative gracefor any parties involved in
that process isn't there yet andI think when you have that kind
(47:41):
of maybe awareness and thatkind of capability, but to the
integrity you mentioned earlier,it's a little bit
disenfranchised or disjointed.
It still is misaligned and Ithink that causes friction.
It's like tripping on asidewalk, um, and that's going
to cause its own social problems.
(48:01):
But I think, like you broughtup, it's having a degree of
chaos and a degree of conflict.
That necessitates the awarenessand the conversation, and 100%
takes time you know.
So, yeah, I think there's a lotabout what you're saying and a
lot about what you're gettinginto.
That's true and simple tounderstand and that's what helps
, because it becomes moreresonant then.
Rob Kancler (48:24):
Yes, one thing that I think is sometimes a bit, I
don't know, confrontational orwhatever, but it seems like it's
getting worse, and I think theissues that we're kind of
talking about directly orindirectly, I think in a lot of
cases they're actually it'sgetting worse and the idea that,
(48:44):
like it'll be all right, islike I don't know that it will
be all right, like I think thatactually this might play into
this kind of complacency orcomplicitness thing again, where
people are like, oh, it'll beall right, it's not a big deal,
and like I wish that people arelike it's not all right, this is
a big deal, I need to dosomething different.
Right, cause it's like thefabric of our world, which I
(49:06):
think used to rely on thingslike church and community and
neighborhoods and all this sortof stuff for us to be, yeah, for
us to be a part of togetherness.
That stuff doesn't exist.
Like we people don't know theirneighbors, they don't go to
church, Like that's not, that'snot normal for a lot of people.
I mean, some people have greatneighborhoods and amazing church
(49:27):
communities and all that'sbeautiful, but it's not the norm
and it's less and less common.
And I think that this is reallyimportant for people to realize
, especially as it seems likeyounger generations are moving
away from alcohol.
So this like community hearthof the pub or whatever isn't
there anymore, right, Likepeople don't go out drinking
(49:47):
anymore.
So it's like more isolation,more and more isolation, and
it's sad In a way.
Yes, we could argue that peopledrinking less is a good thing,
but because that means that wedon't have a community hearth
anymore, it's like how do wereplace that?
(50:07):
If we don't have church and wedon't have drinking, how do we
have intimacy and community?
What are we doing now?
What are we going to do insteadof church and drinking?
Josh Porthouse (50:19):
Yeah, I think somewhere between the social
aspect that digitized mediaprovides and the societal
benefit that broadcast media canprovide.
100 becoming more thesupplement.
But uh, you talked about thegym earlier.
I'm sure you can attest to itas well.
Like any other supplement, themore you swap out steaks for
(50:42):
shakes, the more problems youhave, and it's just going to
compound until you go back tosteak.
You know it.
Just, you can't eat naturaldiets.
Rob Kancler (50:52):
And so it's like I love what you're saying.
Don't mean to interrupt you,but I'm enthused, go ahead, all
right.
Well, I was going to say likesteaks and steaks are shakes.
I would say that the equivalentto that is like social media
and porn or interacting withwomen, like.
And it's tricky because it'slike I socialize with podcasts,
(51:12):
I socialize by even watchingpersonal development content on
social media, where it's like,yeah, but are you actually
relating to people?
Are you being in your body?
Are you, are you experiencingintimacy and meaningful
interaction with the brothersand sisters in your community?
like that rejection, though, orfailure or vulnerability, yeah,
(51:33):
it's par for the course.
All that, totally man, hell,yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I
think that this one of theissues that when you said that,
like people just need to behonest, and I agree, I think
that communication is soimportant, but I think one of
the issues is that people don'tunderstand themselves enough to
be able to take advantage ofopportunities for connection.
That communication is soimportant, but I think one of
the issues is that people don'tunderstand themselves enough to
be able to take advantage ofopportunities for connection.
(51:54):
And and often this is from myexperience of teaching dating a
lot is like men have this habitnot all men, but a lot of men
have this habit of when they'rein an interaction with a woman,
they try to almost like say whythey're cool, right when it's
like they they like flex about,like all these things that are
(52:15):
awesome about their career ortheir life or their personality,
and it's like it's so offputting and it's immediately
just kind of like okay, likeI've seen so many women that are
trying to just, you know, bekind and accommodating, or just
like okay, like you're giving meyour CV, expecting that I'm
impressed and I don't.
I don't want this right now, youknow, yeah, so I do think that
(52:38):
there's something about likeself-awareness and social
awareness and communicationskills that it is often really
beneficial for men to takeseriously.
That you might not know, though.
You might not have those skillsunless you make a concerted
effort to develop them.
And especially, you know, Ithink, that people that are in
(52:58):
like hospitality and serviceprofessions or sales professions
might, by nature, have moresocial skills and more capacity
for calibration and empathy andunderstanding, or especially if
you work in mental health orwhatever.
Um, but I I think that it'sit's very valuable for men to
not take for granted how littleskill they have in understanding
(53:21):
how to socialize and howvaluable it might be to develop
those skills.
And I see this at a lot of a lotof people think that like if I,
if I just get really fit and Ilike focus on my business or
whatever, that like the issuesthat I have with women or with
sex or with my relationship arejust going to work themselves
out and that's wrong, likethat's not true in some cases,
(53:42):
that you know you can buildfortitude and discipline and
build character by you knowhaving a serious fitness
practice or like being anentrepreneur or whatever.
But in most cases people get tothe end of that road and they
realize that they're stillunhappy and they don't
understand so much about whatthey want and how to create it.
And I do think that there'ssuch a huge blind spot around
(54:04):
sex and intimacy and dating andcommunication and community and
all this sort of stuff wherepeople just don't know that they
don't know and they justsomehow just continue to live in
isolation and eventually we'llall be dead.
So it just seems to me like itis really valuable to take
seriously that, like maybe Idon't know the things that I
(54:26):
need to know to be able to havea life that I would feel truly
whole for me.
Josh Porthouse (54:31):
Well, and then we're back, I guess, ironically
full circle, to your wholesomepoint about identifying anything
in conversation, context,construct, concept, from a place
of curiosity, not judgment, andbeing able to develop some
degree of dignity through theprocess.
I mean, you can't you any, Iguess in the last couple minutes
(54:55):
we have.
You can't look in history, anyeon, any culture, any generation
without seeing the samecircumstantial, cosmic lessons
of humility is going to help youout in life, or reality will
introduce it to you.
You know, you've, you've got totreat people the way you want
(55:19):
to be treated right, be, bedignified in your praises and be
graceful in receiving dignity.
Same sort of, I think,appropriation to the, to the
concept and all of these othertypes of lessons where, if you
come from a place of curiosityinstead of judgment, you drop
the facade or put your ego away,or whatever other psychologist
(55:40):
you prefer to quote in thatreference.
Like you mean to tell me thatthis many billions of people, at
least that have been on theearth, let alone anything
outside of recorded history, areall saying the same things,
having never met each other, andthere's no truth to those.
Yeah Well.
I love this quote.
Rob Kancler (55:57):
I'm totally with you, man.
I love this quote.
It's something like one thingthat we can learn from history
is that people don't learn fromhistory.
Josh Porthouse (56:06):
Yes, I like that .
I like that, yep, and then then.
But by the same token, I talkedto a guy last week and he said
history does not repeat itself.
He was a cop in baltimore.
Said history does not repeatitself, it rhymes.
I like that.
I like that's cool, right, yeahbaltimore pd dude crazy stories
(56:30):
.
But let me ask you this, I guessto close us out at this point,
we're out of time.
So for anybody that wants toget in touch with you, follow
along with your journey, learnfrom you, become a client,
anything and everything.
Where do people go?
How do they get in touch withyou?
Rob Kancler (56:44):
Yeah, thank you.
So we are just going throughlike a rebranding process right
now.
But if you go to hdbedroomcomor hdbdrmcom, you can put it
either way, or if you prefer amore fun URL.
I hate not having great sex.
All the timecom is also anotherway that you can find me.
(57:04):
People remember that one.
So I hate not having sex.
All the timecom is is a way tofind me, or you can just look up
my name on all the varioussocials and that's a place where
people can get in touch.
I'm happy to answer anyquestions or share resources or
let you know about the stuffthat I got coming up sweet.
Josh Porthouse (57:22):
Yeah, okay, well , I appreciate that.
And for anybody who's new toour show, like every other
conversation we've had,depending on the player, you're
streaming this conversation orwatching it on click see more,
click show more.
And in the drop downdescription for the conversation
, you'll see links to Rob'swebsites and his social, and
you'll be able to find him thereas well.
So if you're trying to figureout, I need to write down and
(57:44):
copy down the URL.
You don't?
It's under this conversation.
Track it down, click on it.
That'll be easy as well.
But, dude, I really appreciatethe opportunity.
Again, I wasn't sure where thiswas going to go to be.
Yeah, man, but it was good,dude honestly like I still feel
more.
Rob Kancler (58:00):
You know I'm happy to follow the flow here, but
thinking of the themes that Iknow that you have for the show
around transacting value andexploring values, drivendriven
life, that both of those thingsare topics that I feel so
inspired and energized aroundand I do think I mentioned this
when we were not rolling that Ithink that the value that we can
(58:23):
contribute, or the value thatwe can receive in sex
specifically, is so profound andone of the most untapped,
underutilized and misunderstoodparts of the human experience
that people I could say thatlike people have been eating
donuts their whole life and theydon't realize that that's not
food because they've only been,they've only been exposed to
(58:44):
donuts.
My former collaborator, michael,coined that one where it's like
, yeah, if you grew up in aworld where the only thing that
you ever saw people eating wasdonuts, you would just think
donuts are food.
Right, like you wouldn't belike, oh, I'm missing a ribeye.
You wouldn't even know thatthat was a thing.
You would just be like, oh,donuts, like I like donuts.
(59:06):
That's what people are doingwith sex.
It's like you don't even knowthat there's a such thing.
That's not donuts.
Josh Porthouse (59:15):
Oh, it's the red pill, blue pill, man.
You know you just, it'll bewhat it is till it changes to
something else, I guess.
Um, but yeah, I, I appreciatethe opportunity.
Uh, we'll be staying in touch,I'm sure, and then later on in
in the year see how this journeyhas been evolving for you and
maybe get you back on.
But I really do appreciate it,man, your perspective, your time
(59:35):
, the conversation, your abilityto actually converse about it
objectively, scientifically,from a few different angles.
It was good.
I really enjoyed it.
Rob Kancler (59:46):
So thanks for all of those things thank you, josh,
and thank you for doing thisshow too.
I've had lots of conversationswith podcast hosts and seen a
lot of behind the scenes in thepodcasting world, and it seems
like there's a lot of heart andintention behind what you're
doing here, so thank you forthat.
Generally, thanks for having meon.
Josh Porthouse (01:00:05):
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that To
everybody else who's tuned intothis conversation and who's been
watching and staying along withus.
I appreciate you guys fortuning in.
I'm going to leave you withthis.
Go to our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom, and
on the home screen not only canyou access all of our other
conversations, but in the topright-hand corner there's a
little button that says leave avoicemail Two minutes of talk
(01:00:27):
time all to you.
Here's a recommendation from meto you what you can do with that
.
One, tell us what you think ofthe show.
I'd appreciate it, my teamwould appreciate it.
The topics, the guests, thequestions I ask, the style,
everything about it, themarketing, the branding let us
know.
Feedback helps and we can havean open and honest dialogue
about that.
Secondly, tell Rob what youthink about his material.
(01:00:49):
Let him know what you thoughtabout the conversation, the
talking points, the insight hebrought to it, and explain to
him your perspective and yourpoints of view, because that's
how all of us learn.
We got to have the dialogue andthen we'll send that audio file
to Rob and so you guys can getin touch and connect that way as
well.
But for right now, rob, again Iappreciate your time, everybody
else.
Thank you for yours and untilnext time.
(01:01:18):
That was Transacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedbackfollows time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
a review on our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am, eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
(01:01:39):
platforms like Spotify, iheartand TuneIn.
You can now hear TransactingValue on Reads Across America
Radio Eastern Standard Time,wednesdays at 5 pm, sundays at
noon and Thursdays at 1 am.
Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg.
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations
(01:02:02):
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
we'll meet you there Until nexttime.
That was Transacting Value.
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