February 24, 2025 • 62 mins
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Our conversation with Sirena delves into the intricate world of childhood development through unstructured play and imagination. Discover how simple, repetitive activities (like throwing rocks) can build problem-solving skills and a deeper understanding of the world. Together, we unpack the generational shifts that have redefined play's role in education and therapy, and explore how embracing play can create enriching learning environments for children. We promise you'll gain new insights into how play-based therapy can revolutionize your approach to both education and parenting
(10:48) https://www.passiton.com/
(38:36) https://togetherweserved.com/
To learn more about Sirena Simon and The Play Clinic visit https://www.theplayclinic.net/ and also check out this blog post https://blog.gyminsight.com/9612-how-one-person-is-changing-childrens-therapy-the-play-clinic/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Josh Porthouse (00:00):
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Sirena Simon (00:49):
Children have no concept of what an adult is.
They have no concept of whatschool is.
They have none of theseconcepts.
So why are we trying to putthem in that box when they don't
learn that way?
Josh Porthouse (01:04):
Today on Transacting Value.
We've spent so much time overthe last 20 years, with the
advent of social media, onlinegaming, massively multiplayer
online role-playing games,trying to figure out how to
effectively digitize socialsciences and humanities.
At the same time, however, whatplenty of therapists have known
(01:26):
and have figured out thousandsof years ago is, whether it
comes to children or adults,gamifying identities to bring
out the best of socialinteractions is a worthwhile
venture.
So in today's conversation,we've got Serena Simon from the
Play Clinic and we're going totalk all about raising humanity
(01:46):
and being okay with your choicesas parents in the process.
Guys, without further ado, I'mJosh Porthouse, I'm your host
and this is Transacting Value.
Serena, what's up?
How are you doing?
Sirena Simon (01:58):
Hi, I am very excited.
I'm very happy to be here.
I'm excited about talking aboutall of these topics right,
especially being a parent andbeing okay with your choices.
So I am the founder and CEO ofthe Play Clinic.
We are actually going to berebranding over the next couple
(02:19):
of months into Simon Health.
We work with both pediatricsand adults.
What makes us different is wefocus on the family unit and we
focus on those socialinteractions.
How can we get the best socialinteractions?
And we do that throughplay-based therapy.
(02:39):
A lot of times, parents willcome to me and they'll say what
are you doing?
You're just playing with mychild.
And I say well, how about youhop in and play with us and I'll
teach you how to play?
And that's exactly what we do.
Josh Porthouse (02:53):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I mean that's
the same.
It's such a weird dichotomy tome, you know, like you think, I
don't know, 20 years ago, 50years ago, whatever.
Every generation is verysimilar, in my opinion, where
the younger generation says, hey, let's go play catch, or let's
go throw rocks, or go fishing,or whatever, it is Right.
And then people are like, ahwell, you need to go to school.
(03:13):
Okay, true, because you know,societally there's standards and
benchmarks and whatever.
Um, but if there's just as muchbenefit in playing well,
whatever, throwing rocks withyour kids at random trees or
catching lizards, or whateveryou do with your family and with
your kids playing board games,anything in between how is that
(03:35):
any different when you considergamifying as a form of therapy
To find identity, a sense ofself communication, strengthen a
family unit?
It's such a common, simpleconcept.
Is it really as underrated,though, do you think?
I?
Sirena Simon (03:52):
think play is-.
Josh Porthouse (03:53):
You said that's what sets you guys apart.
Sirena Simon (03:55):
Correct, because play is extremely underrated,
right, even?
We have research proving thatplay and having fun as adults is
even really beneficial for ourbrain and our brain growth, and
we have found that brain cellswill actually regenerate when we
do play.
Because in play, yes, yes, itis like really exciting research
(04:20):
.
So I definitely say look it up,because play is important for
both kids and adults.
With kids, they use play tolearn.
So a lot of people will say quitdoing that, quit doing that,
quit doing the same thing overand over again.
So, for example, you'll have achild who will throw the same
(04:42):
rock at the same tree and theywill do it for five minutes at a
time and you're like what isgoing on in that kid's brain?
Like they just keep throwingthat and it and a parent will
come to me it's so boring, Idon't like I can't do this and I
say, well, that's how we learn,right?
So with children, when they'replaying, what will happen is
(05:05):
they will repeat and they willrepeat, and they will repeat
until they get a differentresult.
And when they get a differentresult, they're like, oh, a
light bulb goes off.
I can do that too.
So it's very different thansitting at a desk and saying hey
, how about you just sit at thisdesk and just write the letter
(05:31):
A over and over and, over, and,over and over and over again and
not understand why I'm doing itright?
There's no value to that child.
(05:52):
So I'll show you to that childif I don't know why.
Repeating the letter A forexample is going to get me
anything, whereas in play theyget a different result.
So when you're talking aboutgaming, so it's very interesting
that you bring gaming up,because we actually use gaming
and treatment with some adultswith language learning and
oftentimes gaming has been usedto help children with language
(06:14):
learning and it is actuallybecome problematic within the
speech therapy community thatwe're overusing and relying on
these devices.
So, for example, shared readingactivities.
So what I mean by a sharedreading activity is you sit down
with your child and you read abook.
Right Well, now they're allover YouTube.
(06:34):
There's somebody else readingit to your child on YouTube.
Josh Porthouse (06:37):
Oh, I see.
Sirena Simon (06:39):
Or they're on an iPad, they're on an app, they're
on an iPad, they're on an appand research has shown that the
social interactionssignificantly decrease between
the parents and the child whenthat book is digitized, versus
(07:00):
holding onto the book, thephysical book, and having that
experience of turning a page,having that experience of
pointing at a picture and peoplecould say well, you know, on
the iPad though, we're stillinteracting.
I was just like but if you lookat the child's face, is that
child turning back at you andsmiling?
Is that child taking your handto touch the book and turn the
(07:26):
page or even turn the flap inthe book?
Josh Porthouse (07:30):
yeah, but that's just sort of the advent of of
the the times.
It's sort of the zeitgeistright that we've lived through
the last well, 20 years I guess2004, 2098, 99, whatever where
you know, the morecommercialized and popularized
tech became, obviously mostpeople opted for convenience
(07:51):
over some form of security, andI think we see that today.
There's obviously compromises,a ring, doorbell or whatever,
where there's a mix, a hybrid,but what we and I agree with you
here what we seem to havesacrificed is security over
strengthening our relationshipsand a command sort of presence
over crafting and designing theautonomy and authority over our
(08:14):
own family or, I guess, familialcentered, interpersonal
relationships, in the name ofconvenience.
Well, my tablet can babysit,the shows are there, it's so
much easier, I can actually getwork done and multitask, and
while all of those things arevalid, I think it really helps
to illustrate, at least in myopinion, personally and
professionally, that lifedoesn't have to be complicated,
(08:38):
but it is every bit as complexas it can be on any given day
and it's so ridiculously layeredthat we still have to be able
to prioritize.
What are we going to focus ontoday?
Because none of us, like yousaid, as parents especially,
none of us can tackle it everylevel, to every depth, to every
extent that it needs to be everysingle day.
(08:58):
So I have a question for you.
For example, the playing, uh, uhyou said throwing rocks at the
tree five times and the parents,as your example went.
I just can't sit here for asixth rock.
I can't do this.
My brain is melting and thateven happens.
That even happens playing videogames with our kids.
(09:19):
Sometimes we're like I don'tunderstand how you like this
game, I can't watch the wiggles.
One more episode.
There's too much of this, youknow, or whatever it is that I
think what's really cool aboutwatching that happen is it's the
development of thisunderstanding that the
impossible is possible, as askids Like I, I'm like you said,
(09:42):
pattern recognition, right, I'mthrowing the rock, I'm throwing
the rock, I'm throwing the rockfive times over, I've thrown the
rock and now I throw the rockand bark comes off.
I thought this was a solidthing and now it's actually
pieces of things, and now antscome out and it's a home and and
and and those things make lifelessons.
But you can't do that in ascreen because it's all
(10:04):
programmed, it's all literally,by definition, predictable and
it won't change until we changeit.
Sirena Simon (10:11):
So you bring up such a good point that it's
programmed.
It's programmed right.
You're programming the brain toexpect something.
So imagine doing that all yourchildhood and then becoming an
adult and now you have toproblem solve on your own and
you never had that opportunityin childhood, right?
(10:33):
Imagine?
The mental health crisis thatcreates as a child gets older,
because they didn't have thatopportunity to work in an
unprogrammed setting, so tospeak.
Josh Porthouse (10:48):
All right, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
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His imagination createdSuperman Imagination.
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Sirena Simon (11:24):
It's programs, right?
You're programming the brain toexpect something.
So imagine doing that all yourchildhood and then becoming an
adult, and now you have toproblem solve on your own, and
you never had that opportunityin childhood, right?
Imagine?
The mental health crisis thatcreates as a child gets older,
(11:47):
because they didn't have thatopportunity to work in an
unprogrammed setting, so tospeak.
Josh Porthouse (11:56):
Yeah, but okay, so how do we fashion that?
I mean, there's got to be a way.
Let's just Sorry, wait a second.
I'm getting way sucked in realfast.
Let me back up For anybodywho's new to the show.
First off, welcome you guys tothe second.
I'm getting way sucked in realfast.
Let me back up For anybodywho's new to the show.
First off.
Welcome you guys to the podcast.
I appreciate you guys tuning instaying with us now into season
six Super cool.
Obviously, we got a lot ofsuper cool people coming onto
the show as well, serena, inthis case, people that aren't
(12:17):
familiar with you.
As it's going to, we need toset the stage real quick.
Who are you?
Where are you from?
Let's build some resonance.
What sort of things have shapedyour perspective on life that
got you this direction?
Sirena Simon (12:37):
So a very complex question, but I will try to keep
it as brief as possible.
So all of us have these thingsthat impact our life, right, I
don't believe my experiences arebad or they're good.
They've just impacted how Iapproach my business, my brand,
(12:57):
and how I approach myrelationships with everybody in
my life, and that could be evenlike the cashier at Publix, for
example.
So I'm a speech languagepathologist by trade, so
essentially, I'm aswallowologist.
That's what I'm reallyspecialized in.
It's pediatric feeding andswallowing.
So, yes, I get thrown up on alot.
(13:18):
Yes, I'm messy all day.
Sometimes I come home and myhusband's like what did you do?
Um, sometimes I come home andmy husband's like what did you
do?
Covered in yogurt, you know.
So that's normal, um, on aday-to-day basis.
For me, the biggest things thatshaped have shaped me, though,
are really my childhoodexperiences.
Um, I came from a very, verychaotic background.
(13:40):
My mother had very severemental illness.
This is a very personal thingabout me, so I do apologize if I
get a little bit emotional, butI'm just a raw person, I'm just
a real person.
She had paranoid schizophrenia.
So very, very chaoticenvironment.
(14:00):
My brother was also very illRecently.
I lost him back in February dueto chronic illness.
He had a severe autoimmunedisorder that put him in and out
of the hospital.
Thank you for all of his life.
And so I ended up in healthcare.
Obviously I had a way to payfor it right.
(14:23):
So I went into the military.
So I was in the Air Force.
I was an air traffic controllerand I used that to earn my
master's degree in speechlanguage pathology and then I
found some mentors who helped me.
I ended up in the hospitalenvironment.
I love medically basedpediatrics.
I still work with that a lot inthe home.
(14:44):
So my families who are oxygendependent, my families with more
severe muscle dystrophies, downsyndrome, more severe autism
spectrum disorder, and what I'vefound in all of my experience
is this sense of lack of empathyand compassion in healthcare.
(15:06):
All of my experience is this isthis sense of um lack of
empathy and compassion andhealthcare.
Lack of it.
Lack of it, it has truly becomea business.
Josh Porthouse (15:18):
Do you think that's to its detriment or out
of just the eventuality andnecessity of its own sort of
procedures and costs, risinginflation, paying staff?
I mean it's just nature ofcircumstance or?
Sirena Simon (15:32):
I think it's nature, of circumstance, but I
also think it's choice as well,because I started my my business
to really help people and Iwould have parents coming to me
who said nobody would do feedingand swallowing with my child in
(15:56):
the home because they were toocomplex.
I could only go to a hospital.
I was told my child was toosevere, too behavioral.
My child was too severe, toobehavioral.
They wouldn't even give me achance.
I've seen it with my brother,I've seen it with my mother,
(16:25):
where here's a diagnosis andgood luck.
There's no resources, there'sno follow-up, there's no.
But thank you for coming intoday, thank you for seeing me,
but this is all we can do foryou.
So maybe it's not necessarilySomething to be said for honesty
, but that still doesn'tactually provide any assistance.
Correct, correct.
(16:46):
So where's the follow-up?
Where's the empathy in goingokay, you just gave me this huge
diagnosis.
So say, for example, right nowfamilies are really terrified of
their child being diagnosedwith autism spectrum disorder
because they really don't knowwhat it means.
Right, the local news, thischild headbanging.
(17:11):
But little do they know thatthat child headbanging probably
has multiple diagnoses going on.
It's not just autism spectrumdisorder.
Little do they know that itdoes not mean intellectual
disability.
I actually had a parent ask metwo weeks ago and they said well
, if my child has autismspectrum disorder?
And they said, well, if mychild has autism spectrum
disorder, does that mean thatthey're mentally retarded?
(17:33):
And that's exactly how they putit.
So I'm just raw, I'm being outthere and I said actually,
absolutely not.
It means the opposite.
It means they might be a littlebit quirky, but it doesn't mean
that they're not going to talk.
It doesn't mean they're notgoing to have a job.
It doesn't mean a lack ofintelligence we have research
(17:55):
proving that.
So we say here's this diagnosis,but we don't provide them a
meaning to it, we don't providethem information to it.
It's you're lucky.
You're lucky to have somebody,including therapists, to sit
down and say, hey, where are youat mentally, when are you at
(18:16):
mentally in this process?
I care about you and I want tomake sure you understand what
this diagnosis means.
Josh Porthouse (18:26):
Okay, there's a lot of parallels to what you
just brought up.
Okay, might be triggered oroffended, I'm sorry.
(18:47):
Feel free to send a message orlet me know on the website and
we can talk more about it in thefuture as well, but for here
and now at least, serena, whenyou say well, let me start here.
When you say retarded, I'massuming that means the baseline
then is that normal, reasonableperson standard of intellect
and learning and pace andcapacity.
But behind that baseline, right, like not quite there yet.
Sirena Simon (19:11):
Correct so that would be in this family's eyes
when they said that to me, thiswas to them meaning my child
would learn nothing.
They will be two years old forthe rest of their life.
Josh Porthouse (19:26):
Okay, well, and that's a worthwhile
consideration to have, and maybepoorly phrased, maybe
accurately, I'm not a doctoreither, but still it's a
worthwhile consideration, Ithink.
But does that well, okay?
So if that's the case, I thinkI see where this may be
connecting.
Probably then that child isgoing to learn very differently
(19:50):
than the parents or any siblingsor anything else, but probably
to the same impact, through play.
It's just a different modalityof teaching, right.
Sirena Simon (20:01):
Correct, it's absolutely a different modality
of teaching.
Um, I, I will have parents whowill tell me you know, I've been
to this therapist, that speechtherapist, that occupational
therapist.
What makes you different?
Like, are you going to sit mykid down at a table?
(20:24):
Cause they did, and I said no,it doesn't make sense to me to
sit them at a table and forcethem to sit at a table when I
see that they're moving aroundin their chair.
Right, they're moving around,they're squiggling around,
they're not even comfortablesitting in that chair.
I see that they come into thedoor and they're jumping up and
(20:46):
down.
Right, why would I make themsit in a chair if they're moving
all around and their mind isn'tcalm?
The mind isn't calm, the bodyisn't calm.
So we use play to help calmthat body down.
Right, and that might besensory play.
(21:06):
That might be swinging on aswing, that might be jumping on
a trampoline.
But even in those moments wecan still do language therapy.
Right, we can stop that swing,pause it, wait for that eye
contact, let them swing again.
We start building all of thoseskills slowly when we enter
(21:28):
their world, building all ofthose skills slowly when we
enter their world.
If we force a child who doesn'tunderstand our world right,
doesn't understand what an adultmeans.
They have no idea.
They're like okay, you got topay bills.
What's that?
The money tree?
I don't know what that is.
Children have no concept ofwhat an adult is.
They have no concept of whatschool is.
(21:48):
They have none of theseconcepts.
So why are we trying to putthem in that box when they don't
learn that way?
Josh Porthouse (21:57):
Yeah.
Sirena Simon (21:58):
Let's meet them where they learn.
Josh Porthouse (22:00):
Exactly that's what I was going to say, because
we're talking cognition, right,we're talking cognitive
processes of thinking, not theexpectation that either a five,
a 10, a 15 year old or a 35 yearold at that comparable, you
know, intellect level shouldknow the exact same things,
cause if that's the case, I haveno idea what 80 year olds know.
(22:21):
I haven't lived that long tolearn the lessons.
I'm not mature enough.
You know what I mean.
So if that's the case, I'm justas retarded by that definition
and thought process.
Then, because I have no ideathe life lessons in the extent
of maturity that comes withbeing 85, correct, um, as
opposed to say, like we said,any kids or adult aged people
(22:45):
with more childlike mentalitiesin terms of cognition and
processing.
And so when you have to workwith all types of people
cultures, ethnicities, like wesaid, cognitive development ages
, whatever it is.
But when you work with all typesof people, the only thing that
really stands out to me isprobably the most consistent
(23:07):
continuous challenge that I haveto assume you face daily is
patience.
How do you actually developpatience and tolerance to stay
focused, because you getstressed too.
I mean, you're a human likeanybody else.
You know what I mean, when yourstress levels go up and your
cortisol goes up and you justwant to grab something and yell
(23:28):
into a pillow.
You can't especially not in asession, I'm sure.
So what do you do?
You go down the slide, you geton a swing and a trampoline.
I do the same thing.
Sirena Simon (23:38):
I do the same thing, so you bring up a good,
good point.
In order for children to learn,or even adults to learn right,
our mind and our body need to becalm.
And this comes from a personalperspective, because I also have
adhd and I also have pmdd, sothose two are extremely so.
(23:59):
Pmdd, that is calledpre-menstrual dysphoric disorder
.
So if you can imagine, pms onsteroids, that's what it is.
But all right, I'm with you soanybody who has that diagnosis
no yeah so essentially what thatdiagnosis, on top of the adhd,
(24:23):
causes extreme mood swings,extreme mood swings, and it only
lasts for like a week, right.
And those mood swings for me areI can get very angry easily, I
get very anxious.
So I need a lot more selfregulation and tolerance and I
(24:47):
have built into my routinethroughout the day those breaks
that I need for my brain and mybody.
So, for example, there are sometherapists out there.
They can work with familiesback to back in a clinic setting
, and I have some therapists atmy company that do.
(25:07):
But I don't like that.
I prefer being calm at alltimes.
So for me, home health is whereit's at.
Home health is fire to me.
Like three weeks ago it was ahigh, high emotional.
The child had a meltdown, threwthemselves on the floor, had
(25:35):
headbanging, self-harming.
It was a really, really toughsession.
When I get into my car it'scompletely silent and I drive in
silence to my next house.
So for me, I build in thatroutine to build up that
patience and tolerance.
(25:56):
The other thing, too, isknowing yourself and having good
self-understanding of what youcan and cannot tolerate.
My patience level is extremelyhigh, of what you can and cannot
tolerate.
My patience level is extremelyhigh.
Others are not.
(26:16):
If you don't have a highpatience level and that's just
who you are generally as aperson.
That's kind of like yourpersonality.
One is it personality or two?
Are there things that you needto work on yourself?
Because I found that people whoare really quick to anger
(26:38):
there's something else going on.
There's trauma behind that.
There's something else thathasn't been worked out yet.
So I always say for really goodtherapists.
Typically you know they don'tcome from the best of
backgrounds, but a lot of themhave really done that inner work
(27:01):
in their souls and in theirhearts, with help from mental
health counselors, whoever theygot that, help from pastors,
whoever it may be, to go throughthat journey.
So you can not take actionspersonally.
(27:21):
So for example, when a childgoes into a tantrum.
What a lot of times I will seeon a parent's face is one, and
what a lot of times I will seeon a parent's face is one.
Oh, I didn't want this tohappen.
I didn't want it to happen.
Please make it stop.
(27:41):
And I will see tears in theeyes.
I've seen parents their handsshaking.
I have seen parents who willjust say, oh, he's just doing it
to do it or she's just doing itto do it.
But what I've noticed is it'scoming from a place of.
I'm taking it personally.
Josh Porthouse (28:03):
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
Alrighty folks, if you'relooking for more perspective and
more podcasts, you can checkout Transacting Value on Reads
Across America Radio.
Listen in on iHeartRadio,odyssey and TuneIn.
Sirena Simon (28:21):
What I've noticed is it's coming from a place of
I'm taking it personally, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (28:30):
I'm taking it personally.
Sirena Simon (28:31):
Parent.
Yeah, I'm taking it personallythat you're tantruming over the.
You know I gave you a red appleinstead of a green apple today,
and the kid is losing it, right.
So they kind of take itpersonally, because in the back
of their head they're like well,I did everything that I could
(28:52):
as a parent in that moment tomake you happy and you're still
going to tantrum, Right.
Josh Porthouse (28:58):
Okay, you're still Sure, I see the logic,
yeah, yeah.
Sirena Simon (29:02):
So you're still going to do it.
Josh Porthouse (29:03):
So then, what do you do?
But yeah, so then, how?
I mean how?
Yeah, so then, how else couldyou perceive it?
I'm assuming you've alreadygone the entire day, and this is
not necessarily always firstthing in the morning or middle
of the day, when you're fresher,it's the end of the day, when
you're smoked and you're like Ijust need slippers, sweatpants,
ice cream, whatever it is, andnow the apple.
(29:23):
You got to be kidding, it's aTuesday, I don't have time for
this.
How do you work that?
It's such a multifaceted,complex situation, let alone
whoever the individual isthrowing the tantrum.
Because I got to say this too Idon't know specifically what
that's like as a parent, as achild, as the individual here
(29:45):
that you're describing, forexample.
I don't have much here thatyou're describing, for example.
I don't have much resonance inthat moment, but I have a fair
amount of empathy for not havingthe vocabulary to be able to
express what I'm frustratedabout and the emotional burnout
and the social battery that'snot charged enough to
communicate effectively and sayI just need my space right now,
(30:07):
I'll get my own apple.
Thanks, mom, you know it's not.
I get those moments.
Is that what you're describing.
Is that where you start?
Is that how you explain it?
How do you break this down?
Sirena Simon (30:19):
That's actually exactly how I break it down
right.
Okay, again, they are learning,they are, so you kind of have
to, and it goes back to thatpatience and tolerance thing,
right, and I always encourageparents especially.
(30:40):
What is that thing that makesyou okay, right?
So what I mean is, for me, Ipurposely build in those moments
of my day to make sure to calmmy brain to make sure I touch
base with myself and I say okay,you know, um, this makes me
(31:05):
okay, this is my pattern.
I know I'm gonna get in my carand I'm going to have a silent
five minutes, or I'm going toeat my lunch in silence, or
whatever it is to help calm mybrain.
So I always ask parents toowhat are your strategies for
calming your brain, especiallyin those moments?
What are your strategies?
Josh Porthouse (31:27):
Okay To self-soothe, to set boundaries
to however you want to frame it.
I'm assuming it's all the same,right yeah?
Sirena Simon (31:33):
to self-regulate.
Yeah, To me it kind of goes allin the same, because in order
to respond with patience andtolerance, you have to know how
to self-regulate yourself.
It is the number one thing.
I work on with a lot of parentsand I'm not a mental health
counselor.
So I always say let's get some,if you're open to it, let's
(31:58):
introduce some mental healthcounseling to work on these
things.
Because I see it, I see howtired they are in the eyes and I
see how defeated they look.
And first of all, I want to letall the parents know out there
you're doing a great job, You'redoing an amazing job and I'm
tearing up right now.
I know you don't see it, butyou're doing an amazing job and
(32:20):
I appreciate everything you guysdo every single day and I am,
my team and myself.
We consider ourselvesprivileged to work with your
families and to work with yourchildren.
So I just wanted to throw thatout there.
But you know a lot of.
To get back onto track, it's alot of.
(32:42):
What I do is self-regulation inthose moments, even within
myself, Because I have to beself-regulated so I can help the
parent and I have to beself-regulated to help the kid
in those moments, even withinmyself, because I have to be
self-regulated so I can help theparent, and I have to be
self-regulated to help the kidin those moments.
So you have to learn what worksfor you, and sometimes that
means recognizing my child's cryis actually a trigger well is
(33:09):
that a problem.
Josh Porthouse (33:10):
Is it always a bad thing?
Yeah, for what?
Sirena Simon (33:13):
well.
So for some people thatactually bring up trauma when
they hear that's what I meanlike, yeah, I can't.
Josh Porthouse (33:21):
I, you know you, you blame yourself, you feel
guilty and shame and whatever.
Like adoptions happen all thetime because I can't deal with
this kid crying anymore.
You know like, but is it alwaysa bad thing?
You said, is a trigger?
Can it be a good, a trigger fora catalyst for good or
something?
Is that ever possible?
Sirena Simon (33:37):
Yes, I think it is and I do see it in some cases.
So, for example, we work with alot of foster families and we
work with a lot of singleparents Single parents, either
single parents by choice, singleparents or divorce, whatever it
may be.
And so a lot of them these,they are super humans like I.
(34:04):
It is like their body goes intothis fight or flight response.
That is just incredible, and Ilearned just as much from them
too.
So the trigger can go eitherway, and then sometimes the
trigger goes in a good way, in asense of I had a parent look at
(34:25):
me, I want to say, a month agowhen this happened, and they
said ago when this happened, andthey said I need to walk away.
And I congratulated them forcommunicating that to me.
And they said I need you to bethe stronger person right now.
(34:46):
I need to walk away.
And I was like, well, actuallyyou're being the stronger person
because you are walking awayfrom the situation.
You're being the strongerperson.
And then, also, to go hand inhand with that, what led to that
moment is I modeled that moment.
Josh Porthouse (34:58):
You modeled that moment.
Sirena Simon (35:00):
So I modeled.
So.
For example, it happened liketwo weeks before that parent
walked out.
I walked out and I looked atthe parent and I said I need to
take a break, I need to take abreak, and I need to take a
break because I feel I just feelanxious right now and I don't
feel good and I need to walkaway.
(35:23):
And that's what I did.
Josh Porthouse (35:25):
OK.
Sirena Simon (35:25):
I walked away for 10 minutes and then I came back
in the session and then they didit, you know, a couple of weeks
later, go ahead.
Josh Porthouse (35:33):
I have a question about that real quick,
yeah, yeah, just, I don't knowsort of a devil's advocate point
here or counterpoint I'm notsure the right word here but I
think there's a certain amountof necessity to identify and
develop tolerances for differentthings and then, obviously, the
(35:54):
awareness of whatever they are.
I think that's important and Ithink to be able to say this is
one of those moments I've I'vehit my line, either explicitly
out loud or in your head, andthen take the whatever resulting
action.
But I also think it's importantand maybe this is from my, you
know, military background or orwhatever martial arts, whatever,
(36:14):
it is just my own perspectivethat you got to push it
sometimes too, yes, and youlearn discipline and resilience
and structure to chaos, forwhatever life breeds.
Where's the balance for that?
How do you determine the way toadjust?
(36:35):
Okay, now I'm walking away, butnow I'm going to sit here and
deal with it as an individual,not necessarily as a therapist
or as a parent, you know, justin the introspective realm here.
How do you balance the two?
Because there's a time andplace for both.
Sirena Simon (36:54):
I absolutely agree with you and again, it's a very
, very individual response andit goes back to knowing yourself
.
It really goes back to knowingyourself.
Let me put it this way.
I can put it from myperspective than trying to take
it from somebody else'sperspective.
Josh Porthouse (37:14):
Yeah, sure, sure .
Sirena Simon (37:16):
So for me and I've done it, I don't do it's very
rare during a session where Isay, hey, I need to take a break
for five minutes, but typicallyI will tell you before I get to
that point.
I've already seen four or fivedifferent families and it has
just been one of those days backto back where it's just been a
(37:36):
rough day and you're going tohave those, and I just got to a
point where I was like, okay, Ireally need to take a step back,
and usually, typically for me,it's when my thoughts go
negative, as soon as my thoughtstell me I can't do it, I can't
(37:57):
do it, I can't do it, I can't doit.
Or my thought turns into I don'tknow what to do.
And when my thought goes to Idon't know what to do, I have to
tell myself it's probably morelikely my ADHD taking over and
those negative thoughts fromthat taking over.
So I need to go take a step out, take five minutes maybe,
(38:20):
listen for me.
Sometimes I'll I'll listen tolike smooth jazz or something
like that, just to recalibratemy brain, and then I'll come
back.
Josh Porthouse (38:30):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
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Sirena Simon (39:35):
I have to tell myself it's probably more than
likely my ADHD taking over andthose negative thoughts from
that taking over.
So I need to go, take a stepout, take five minutes maybe,
listen For me.
Sometimes I'll listen to likesmooth jazz or something like
that, just to recalibrate mybrain, and then I'll come back.
Josh Porthouse (39:55):
I totally get it , like the threshold between I'm
hungry and I'm hangry, but it'sthe same degree of awareness.
Yeah, absolutely, I got you.
I got you.
Let me ask you this then, realquick, not to necessarily derail
your train of thought but Ithink it's also important to
understand that from just ahuman, an individual human
perspective here not as apatient, not as a child, not as
(40:18):
a parent, none of these otherqualifiers that there's an art
and a science to humanity, andin this case, raising ourselves,
let alone each other, where thescience is what we're
describing right.
But then the art is maybe theawareness or the expression of
it, or ability to communicate itin some way or form or fashion.
But what grounds it?
In my opinion, your, yourcharacter is what you can fall
(40:43):
back on, and maybe the valuesystems are what anchor it.
So, in these times, when youstart to develop your tolerance
or or press your threshold forthese types of things, that's
what you can lean back on, likethat's, that's the trust fall,
it's your value system that'scatching you, you know, or
something to that effect.
So let me ask you this realquick this is a segment of the
(41:04):
show called developing character.
D d d developing character.
Anybody, serena you included,who may be new to this idea two
questions totally as vulnerableand upfront as you want to be.
You can answer it however youlike and to whatever depth.
But my first question is itstarts somewhere and you talked
(41:25):
about your family growing up anda little bit around, how that
informed your influence andpassion around healthcare and
working with people.
But what about your valuesystem?
That was in your environment.
You know what I mean.
What types of values were youraised around growing up, or
were you brought up around orexposed to that you think
contributed to a lot of this asyou were a child?
Sirena Simon (41:49):
It's a very good question, extremely good
question, because in a lot ofsenses I raised myself my father
is very open and honest withthat Even though I was a
military brat.
He was gone, and when dad wasgone, who was taking care of a
little brother?
Who was taking care of thehouse, right.
(42:11):
So I started working in thefourth grade.
I started that side hustle inthe fourth grade.
So I actually what I did isthere was a stable, a horse
stable.
I was obsessed with ridinghorses, obsessed with it.
I was like I want to be a worldchampion in fourth grade.
Little did I know I'd be aspeech pathologist, right.
So I went over and I just putflyers up.
(42:34):
I said I'm going to trademonkeying stalls for horse
riding lessons.
And that's what happened.
And lo and behold, throughthose experiences I got
mentorship.
So I learned how to work, howto trade a skill for money, and
then I started babysitting andall of these other things as
well.
But I would say one of thebiggest things in my life didn't
(43:01):
really start happening until my20s when I was finally
introduced to my aunt.
So I have two aunts, um, oneaunt um.
I wasn't really introduced to,I was exposed to growing up,
like when you're three, four.
Nobody remembers, right um, yeah, and then due to the
(43:23):
chaoticness in my homeenvironment, we didn't really
get to visit them.
She wasn't an active part of mylife.
It wasn't actually until mymother passed that we actually
that she kind of took on thismentorship, mother role and then
same with my other aunts that Iactually had more exposure to.
So these two people areextremely important is they saw
(43:50):
things in me that my husband sawin me but my parents didn't.
So, for example, my dad.
And so with generational trauma,right, generational trauma is
something that I don't thinkpeople really realize gets
(44:12):
passed down and it is a thing itgets passed down.
So, whatever you get raisedwith, with whatever values
you're exposed to, when youbecome a parent you say I want
to do the best that I can, andsometimes you don't even realize
that generational traumaaffected your personal choices.
So for me, I was a feral child.
(44:35):
I'm still a feral person, feraladults, right, but as a female
child and this might betriggering to some.
So I'm just going to put it outthere and it might be also very
controversial as well.
Controversial as well.
I was kind of expected to go tocollege, to get married, I was
(44:56):
expected to have kids, but Idon't think my parents really
knew how to deal with me.
They were like this kid isshe's making A's and B's in
school on her own.
I don't know how she was doingit.
She doesn't match thestereotype.
I was put in a box but, I wasn'tput in a box on purpose.
(45:21):
There was no ill intention inthat whatsoever.
It was just my parents didn'tknow what to do.
They didn't know what to do.
It just kind of came together.
Um so, but both like I had thisrecent conversation with my
aunt um, there was a point whereI had to make the choice of
(45:42):
being child free or not andagain this might be triggering
for some people Um, it was rightafter my wedding.
We I kind of went into thisspiral and it was because of an
event that happened and Ilearned a couple of things.
So what the event was was I hada family member it wasn't even
24 hours within the ending ofour wedding.
Josh Porthouse (46:06):
They did a gender reveal.
Sirena Simon (46:07):
Okay, yeah.
So why it was so triggering forme was because I was like we
just spent all of this money andyou couldn't have waited 24
hours.
You couldn't have waited 24hours Like it couldn't have just
been about my husband and I for24 hours and then, um then it
(46:28):
it.
It kind of solidified thosevalues that a woman like me
isn't important.
A woman like me who has amaster's degree.
Josh Porthouse (46:42):
Do you get what I'm saying Like?
Sirena Simon (46:43):
who has a master's degree.
And so I went into this spotand before we got married we
were pretty like no, we don'twant children, like we already
knew that we didn't wantchildren as a couple.
And then here I am with all ofour closest family members and
(47:04):
they knew, they knew we selectedto be child free and that that
was who we were.
And I questioned all of myidentity in that one moment.
And then after that, like whenI confronted the family member
and I said, hey, you know, Iwish things were handled kind of
differently.
Essentially, I was told viatext message you don't matter.
(47:25):
Well, not, you don't matter.
The exact words were itshouldn't matter because you
weren't going to have kidsanyway.
It shouldn't matter how youfeel.
Josh Porthouse (47:37):
I'll consider it , yeah, okay.
Sirena Simon (47:40):
Correct, so I battled with my identity a very
long time out of that and itactually almost resulted in my
husband's and I's divorce.
Because I was in such a bad,negative headspace and I was
like we need to have kids, weneed to have kids, we need to
have kids.
And my aunt was the one whopulled me aside and when I
(48:04):
finally came out of it and I waslike I don't think I want kids,
aunt Sherry, and she goes yeah,you would have been a terrible
mom.
Kids, aunt sherry and she goesyeah, you would have been a
terrible mom, not like that butshe, she wouldn't joke like that
, but she but she said you wouldhave been miserable.
I knew that.
I knew that from when you werethree years old, that that was
(48:27):
not going to be a part of yourlife.
That was not your mission.
That was not how you were goingto be a part of your life.
That was not your mission.
That was not how you were goingto impact the world.
Was being a mom, and for somepeople, that is how they impact
the world and I am grateful forthem every single day because it
is something, it's a choicethat has never been in my heart
(48:50):
and my soul to do.
So I definitely 100% support it.
But for me, it was impactingthe community through businesses
and not corporates, throughsmall businesses, to empower
young women, to empower families.
That their choices were okay,that their choices were okay.
(49:16):
So my aunts really, reallyshaped that.
And then my other aunt is theone who said you know, serena,
you belong in a boardroom.
You never belonged on in alittle wedding dress.
You never belonged.
And you know, just in this insuburbia, so to speak, she's
like you never belonged there.
I knew that from the moment Imet you, the first time I met
(49:38):
you and she was the one when Istarted talking about my
business and saying you know,I'm scared, I'm really scared,
I'm really, really scared ofdoing this.
And again it went back to thatidentity thing.
Josh Porthouse (49:54):
I'm really really scared of doing this, and
again it went back to thatidentity thing.
Sirena Simon (49:57):
Because, well, I've taken it on Unintentionally
, correct, unintentionally.
I'm thinking in the back of myhead.
I'm female, I can't besuccessful in business Right and
she was just like no.
You are always meant for theboardroom.
Josh Porthouse (50:12):
Go, put on those heels and fear of success is
such a wild thing to hear andthink of, because it's always
like, well, if I fail, I don'tknow how to recover, which is, I
think, legitimate as well.
But if I succeed, I don't knowhow to recover, is, just as, I
think, common in a lot of casestoo.
Sirena Simon (50:30):
Correct and I absolutely agree with you.
Josh Porthouse (50:35):
Yeah.
Sirena Simon (50:36):
That fear of being successful.
What does that mean to youridentity?
Because sometimes, for a personlike me, it actually solidified
my identity.
Right Now, I'm the happiestperson that I've ever been,
because I came out and said thisis who I am.
I love helping people.
(50:58):
I love helping people, but Ialso love business as well.
You know, like I, I truly enjoyit.
Um yeah there's so many thingswe can talk about in so many
other areas we could even getdeeper into it.
Josh Porthouse (51:15):
Well, that's what makes it so cool.
Like we were saying earlier,there's so much complexity and
so many different layers, butall things considered, it's
fairly simple Know yourself,seek self-improvement, know
thyself.
It's all the same sort of Idon't know relative degrees of
stoicism that seem to stillstick hundreds of thousands of
years later.
There's got to be some truth toit.
We can't have gone that farwhere you know, like it's still
(51:38):
a science and so, yeah, I thinkthe thought process is the same.
But now back to your originalpoint.
How crazy must it be mentally,cognitively, to be in a position
where you can't inform peopleof that?
And if it's a basic humandesire and if it's a basic human
need which I'm pretty sure itis, to be able to communicate,
(52:02):
to find your pack and safety andsecurity and be part of the
group, to not be able tocommunicate that for whatever
cognitive reason?
Or, let's say, you're not tosome degree behind the curve or
whatever, like I said,cognitively, but as the parent,
(52:24):
well, isn't it ironic that, bythis standard and societal
metric, you are, you're in theaverage, you're right in the
middle, you, whatever, arenormal, but yet you also can't
communicate?
Strange, frustrating, isn't it?
Yeah, weird and figure out howto make that loop close.
And you're coming up tosomebody again, maybe 35 years
(52:46):
old, acting like a five-year-oldbecause of cognition.
But now, mom, you're a35-year-old acting like a
five-year-old because ofcognition.
But now, mom, you're a35-year-old acting like a
five-year-old out of immaturity,because you lost self-control
or don't understand how toself-soothe, or you know where.
It's the same sort of general Idon't know if it issues the
(53:07):
right word, but issue.
In the moment it's the samesort of point of comparison at
least, and I think.
I think in my most of my careerin the military has been in the
infantry and one of the thingsthat we do we call it either map
tracking or land navigation orwhatever, but it's reading a map
, it's figuring out where to gowithout a GPS, you know, with
sticks and stars instead ofdouble A's, but it's in that
(53:31):
reference to communicate thatwith somebody else over a radio
or in person.
Here's where we are and wherewe need to go.
It has to start with an initialcommon reference point and once
you've both identified oh, Isee that tree, I see that hill,
I know it's here on the map.
Okay, now how do we get towhere you are, that you can
actually start communicating andmaking progress to any extent.
(53:55):
Super cool, super cool.
I didn't intend for thisconversation to go that way at
all, but I'm glad it did, and Ireally appreciate your insight.
Uh, for the sake of time,though and, by the way, I'm more
than willing to have you backon the show, but for right now,
I really only have two morequestions for you because of
time.
One of them all of theseexperiences, from you as a kid
(54:21):
to learning and growing throughyou and yourself, obviously,
getting married, and all thethings that come with learning
about somebody else, and thenyour practice and business.
What has it actually done foryour self-worth?
How do you view you now?
Sirena Simon (54:39):
I love who I am now.
It's taken a long time to lovemyself.
It's taken a very, very longtime to learn how to love myself
.
But I encourage everybody andit takes work.
That's the thing is.
It takes work.
You don't come.
(54:59):
I think it's very rare foranybody to come out and say I
love myself.
But you know what?
And this is something that isprofound.
And we can talk on anotherepisode about children, and this
is I love learning fromchildren.
They are the most humblinghuman beings to learn from,
(55:22):
because children live in thepresent.
They have no idea about thefuture.
They have no idea about thepast.
And you know what they love,who they are.
You know who takes that away.
You know who takes that away wedo as adults.
Josh Porthouse (55:42):
We take that love away.
I always thought it'd beinteresting to meet time
travelers, but from what you'resaying right there, maybe we did
when we were kids and now I'mnot so convinced that that would
have been a cool experience tohave or a fun person to meet,
because what are they going tobring back?
All the life lessons and issuesand emotional baggage?
(56:03):
No thanks, I'm pretty happythrowing rocks at this tree.
Sirena Simon (56:07):
Correct, I'm pretty happy popping bubbles
right now.
I'm pretty happy poppingbubbles right now.
I'm pretty happy chasing afterthat frog, you know.
And I think as a society, thisis where we're going.
Wrong with our kids is we aretaking that love, that love of
(56:30):
life, away from them, of thatlove of life away from them and
we can learn so much from them.
Because we'll take them andwe'll say we want you to be
stuck in this box, versus saying, hey, what do you think about
that?
And believe me, they'll come upwith a solution.
(56:52):
I mean, we already see it.
Like if you watch Kids BakingChampionship I watch it all the
time these kids are amazing inthe kitchen.
They're amazing, right.
But the difference is at thatage, how many kids truly loves
themselves.
Those kids love themselves.
(57:15):
They're more self-regulatedthan most adults are, right?
Josh Porthouse (57:21):
Well, also to that point, though, in
understanding that there's acertain benefit to discovery and
awareness and introspection bythe same parallel.
Let's say, well, any childcooking show for that matter
that sometimes there is a recipeand you need to follow it,
because what you're actually,the expectation placed on you,
(57:43):
is that you make this kind ofcake.
So sometimes you have to playthe rules and there's a time and
a place to discover new recipes.
But in the test kitchen, whycouldn't you put actual carrot
into some sort of pudding or Idon't know whatever.
I'm not a baker, but likethere's times and places for all
of that, and there's got to bea mutual respect for the
boundaries that do exist withincertain aspects of life.
(58:06):
Let's say, but Serena, my secondlife.
Let's say, but Serena, mysecond, or really my last
question.
I guess anybody that wants toreach out to you, to get in
touch with you, to follow up andfind out what is the Plague
Clinic?
Well, sorry, what is SimonHealth and what's it going to
become?
Or any blogs or journals orproducts that end up online as a
(58:29):
result, and all of these otherthings, where do we go?
How do we find out about it?
Sirena Simon (58:34):
Yes, so you can.
Actually, I rarely, rarely dothis.
However, I'm going to put mypersonal number out there, but
please, please, guys, do notblow up my phone, for
unreasonable things.
Josh Porthouse (58:50):
How about this?
How about this for right now?
Um, how about just a website,and then we can forward a link
and people can email you.
How's that?
Sirena Simon (59:01):
yeah, I think that's a better, better solution
.
I just get so excited, I'lltalk to anybody and I'm like yes
, please call me.
Please call me, I'll help youguys out and it actually
happened.
I got a call at 2 am randomlyfrom California and I was like
what?
They're like, yeah, I heardabout you through so-and-so.
I was just like, well, I'm inFlorida, so they're like that's
(59:23):
not going to work.
I was like, yeah, that's notgoing to work, so definitely
it's pretty cool though.
Yeah, it is really cool, um, sodefinitely.
Josh Porthouse (59:37):
Um, theplayclinicnet sweet, all
right, so we'll start there andthen, as people leave messages
or reach out to you through yourwebsite, should you decide at
that point to give them acontact number, uh, maybe we'll
start there.
See where it goes.
And for anybody else, obviously, who's new to my show,
depending on the player you'restreaming this conversation on,
(59:59):
you can click see more, you canclick show more and then, in the
drop down notes the show notes,the description for this
conversation you'll also see alink to Serena's website, so
it'll be able to take you rightthere as well.
Even as you're listening tothis conversation, you can check
her out and see what's going on.
Super cool, I love thisopportunity.
I love this conversation.
I think there's a very highlyunderrated benefit to talking
(01:00:24):
about things like family orfatherhood or parenting or
gaming or, from what I'massuming, millennial parenting
and perspectives on it andeverything that that can
actually do to benefit a societyinstead of just I don't know
destabilize it.
Awesome, I love it.
I appreciate your time, yourinsight, your experience and,
(01:00:47):
frankly, your tolerance forputting up with it, because
without it, this conversationwouldn't have been as cool as it
was had it not been for all thelessons and things you've
learned, so I really yeah, Ireally do appreciate it.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Sirena Simon (01:01:01):
Thank you so, so much, and I hope to hear from
you guys soon.
Josh Porthouse (01:01:06):
Absolutely, and for everybody else who's
listened to the conversation orwatched it, in this case.
I thank you for staying with usfor the conversation.
Any feedback you guys have anyinsight, comments?
You have?
Feel free to go to our websiteat transactingvaluepodcastcom.
Click, leave a voicemail on thehomepage.
You get two minutes.
It's up to you.
(01:01:27):
Say what you like, let us knowwhat you think and obviously, if
you have specific questions forSerena, put them in there.
We'll forward it on to her aswell, and obviously the
playclinicnet can also take allyour feedback.
But, guys, thank you again foryour time Until we talk again
next time.
That was Transacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
(01:01:48):
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(01:02:08):
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Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a reef and remember,
(01:02:29):
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
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(01:02:50):
we'll meet you there.
Until next time.
That was Transacting Value.
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
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supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Sirena Simon (00:49):
Children have no concept of what an adult is.
They have no concept of whatschool is.
They have none of theseconcepts.
So why are we trying to putthem in that box when they don't
learn that way?
Josh Porthouse (01:04):
Today on Transacting Value.
We've spent so much time overthe last 20 years, with the
advent of social media, onlinegaming, massively multiplayer
online role-playing games,trying to figure out how to
effectively digitize socialsciences and humanities.
At the same time, however, whatplenty of therapists have known
(01:26):
and have figured out thousandsof years ago is, whether it
comes to children or adults,gamifying identities to bring
out the best of socialinteractions is a worthwhile
venture.
So in today's conversation,we've got Serena Simon from the
Play Clinic and we're going totalk all about raising humanity
(01:46):
and being okay with your choicesas parents in the process.
Guys, without further ado, I'mJosh Porthouse, I'm your host
and this is Transacting Value.
Serena, what's up?
How are you doing?
Sirena Simon (01:58):
Hi, I am very excited.
I'm very happy to be here.
I'm excited about talking aboutall of these topics right,
especially being a parent andbeing okay with your choices.
So I am the founder and CEO ofthe Play Clinic.
We are actually going to berebranding over the next couple
(02:19):
of months into Simon Health.
We work with both pediatricsand adults.
What makes us different is wefocus on the family unit and we
focus on those socialinteractions.
How can we get the best socialinteractions?
And we do that throughplay-based therapy.
(02:39):
A lot of times, parents willcome to me and they'll say what
are you doing?
You're just playing with mychild.
And I say well, how about youhop in and play with us and I'll
teach you how to play?
And that's exactly what we do.
Josh Porthouse (02:53):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I mean that's
the same.
It's such a weird dichotomy tome, you know, like you think, I
don't know, 20 years ago, 50years ago, whatever.
Every generation is verysimilar, in my opinion, where
the younger generation says, hey, let's go play catch, or let's
go throw rocks, or go fishing,or whatever, it is Right.
And then people are like, ahwell, you need to go to school.
(03:13):
Okay, true, because you know,societally there's standards and
benchmarks and whatever.
Um, but if there's just as muchbenefit in playing well,
whatever, throwing rocks withyour kids at random trees or
catching lizards, or whateveryou do with your family and with
your kids playing board games,anything in between how is that
(03:35):
any different when you considergamifying as a form of therapy
To find identity, a sense ofself communication, strengthen a
family unit?
It's such a common, simpleconcept.
Is it really as underrated,though, do you think?
I?
Sirena Simon (03:52):
think play is-.
Josh Porthouse (03:53):
You said that's what sets you guys apart.
Sirena Simon (03:55):
Correct, because play is extremely underrated,
right, even?
We have research proving thatplay and having fun as adults is
even really beneficial for ourbrain and our brain growth, and
we have found that brain cellswill actually regenerate when we
do play.
Because in play, yes, yes, itis like really exciting research
(04:20):
.
So I definitely say look it up,because play is important for
both kids and adults.
With kids, they use play tolearn.
So a lot of people will say quitdoing that, quit doing that,
quit doing the same thing overand over again.
So, for example, you'll have achild who will throw the same
(04:42):
rock at the same tree and theywill do it for five minutes at a
time and you're like what isgoing on in that kid's brain?
Like they just keep throwingthat and it and a parent will
come to me it's so boring, Idon't like I can't do this and I
say, well, that's how we learn,right?
So with children, when they'replaying, what will happen is
(05:05):
they will repeat and they willrepeat, and they will repeat
until they get a differentresult.
And when they get a differentresult, they're like, oh, a
light bulb goes off.
I can do that too.
So it's very different thansitting at a desk and saying hey
, how about you just sit at thisdesk and just write the letter
(05:31):
A over and over and, over, and,over and over and over again and
not understand why I'm doing itright?
There's no value to that child.
(05:52):
So I'll show you to that childif I don't know why.
Repeating the letter A forexample is going to get me
anything, whereas in play theyget a different result.
So when you're talking aboutgaming, so it's very interesting
that you bring gaming up,because we actually use gaming
and treatment with some adultswith language learning and
oftentimes gaming has been usedto help children with language
(06:14):
learning and it is actuallybecome problematic within the
speech therapy community thatwe're overusing and relying on
these devices.
So, for example, shared readingactivities.
So what I mean by a sharedreading activity is you sit down
with your child and you read abook.
Right Well, now they're allover YouTube.
(06:34):
There's somebody else readingit to your child on YouTube.
Josh Porthouse (06:37):
Oh, I see.
Sirena Simon (06:39):
Or they're on an iPad, they're on an app, they're
on an iPad, they're on an appand research has shown that the
social interactionssignificantly decrease between
the parents and the child whenthat book is digitized, versus
(07:00):
holding onto the book, thephysical book, and having that
experience of turning a page,having that experience of
pointing at a picture and peoplecould say well, you know, on
the iPad though, we're stillinteracting.
I was just like but if you lookat the child's face, is that
child turning back at you andsmiling?
Is that child taking your handto touch the book and turn the
(07:26):
page or even turn the flap inthe book?
Josh Porthouse (07:30):
yeah, but that's just sort of the advent of of
the the times.
It's sort of the zeitgeistright that we've lived through
the last well, 20 years I guess2004, 2098, 99, whatever where
you know, the morecommercialized and popularized
tech became, obviously mostpeople opted for convenience
(07:51):
over some form of security, andI think we see that today.
There's obviously compromises,a ring, doorbell or whatever,
where there's a mix, a hybrid,but what we and I agree with you
here what we seem to havesacrificed is security over
strengthening our relationshipsand a command sort of presence
over crafting and designing theautonomy and authority over our
(08:14):
own family or, I guess, familialcentered, interpersonal
relationships, in the name ofconvenience.
Well, my tablet can babysit,the shows are there, it's so
much easier, I can actually getwork done and multitask, and
while all of those things arevalid, I think it really helps
to illustrate, at least in myopinion, personally and
professionally, that lifedoesn't have to be complicated,
(08:38):
but it is every bit as complexas it can be on any given day
and it's so ridiculously layeredthat we still have to be able
to prioritize.
What are we going to focus ontoday?
Because none of us, like yousaid, as parents especially,
none of us can tackle it everylevel, to every depth, to every
extent that it needs to be everysingle day.
(08:58):
So I have a question for you.
For example, the playing, uh, uhyou said throwing rocks at the
tree five times and the parents,as your example went.
I just can't sit here for asixth rock.
I can't do this.
My brain is melting and thateven happens.
That even happens playing videogames with our kids.
(09:19):
Sometimes we're like I don'tunderstand how you like this
game, I can't watch the wiggles.
One more episode.
There's too much of this, youknow, or whatever it is that I
think what's really cool aboutwatching that happen is it's the
development of thisunderstanding that the
impossible is possible, as askids Like I, I'm like you said,
(09:42):
pattern recognition, right, I'mthrowing the rock, I'm throwing
the rock, I'm throwing the rockfive times over, I've thrown the
rock and now I throw the rockand bark comes off.
I thought this was a solidthing and now it's actually
pieces of things, and now antscome out and it's a home and and
and and those things make lifelessons.
But you can't do that in ascreen because it's all
(10:04):
programmed, it's all literally,by definition, predictable and
it won't change until we changeit.
Sirena Simon (10:11):
So you bring up such a good point that it's
programmed.
It's programmed right.
You're programming the brain toexpect something.
So imagine doing that all yourchildhood and then becoming an
adult and now you have toproblem solve on your own and
you never had that opportunityin childhood, right?
(10:33):
Imagine?
The mental health crisis thatcreates as a child gets older,
because they didn't have thatopportunity to work in an
unprogrammed setting, so tospeak.
Josh Porthouse (10:48):
All right, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
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His imagination createdSuperman Imagination.
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Sirena Simon (11:24):
It's programs, right?
You're programming the brain toexpect something.
So imagine doing that all yourchildhood and then becoming an
adult, and now you have toproblem solve on your own, and
you never had that opportunityin childhood, right?
Imagine?
The mental health crisis thatcreates as a child gets older,
(11:47):
because they didn't have thatopportunity to work in an
unprogrammed setting, so tospeak.
Josh Porthouse (11:56):
Yeah, but okay, so how do we fashion that?
I mean, there's got to be a way.
Let's just Sorry, wait a second.
I'm getting way sucked in realfast.
Let me back up For anybodywho's new to the show.
First off, welcome you guys tothe second.
I'm getting way sucked in realfast.
Let me back up For anybodywho's new to the show.
First off.
Welcome you guys to the podcast.
I appreciate you guys tuning instaying with us now into season
six Super cool.
Obviously, we got a lot ofsuper cool people coming onto
the show as well, serena, inthis case, people that aren't
(12:17):
familiar with you.
As it's going to, we need toset the stage real quick.
Who are you?
Where are you from?
Let's build some resonance.
What sort of things have shapedyour perspective on life that
got you this direction?
Sirena Simon (12:37):
So a very complex question, but I will try to keep
it as brief as possible.
So all of us have these thingsthat impact our life, right, I
don't believe my experiences arebad or they're good.
They've just impacted how Iapproach my business, my brand,
(12:57):
and how I approach myrelationships with everybody in
my life, and that could be evenlike the cashier at Publix, for
example.
So I'm a speech languagepathologist by trade, so
essentially, I'm aswallowologist.
That's what I'm reallyspecialized in.
It's pediatric feeding andswallowing.
So, yes, I get thrown up on alot.
(13:18):
Yes, I'm messy all day.
Sometimes I come home and myhusband's like what did you do?
Um, sometimes I come home andmy husband's like what did you
do?
Covered in yogurt, you know.
So that's normal, um, on aday-to-day basis.
For me, the biggest things thatshaped have shaped me, though,
are really my childhoodexperiences.
Um, I came from a very, verychaotic background.
(13:40):
My mother had very severemental illness.
This is a very personal thingabout me, so I do apologize if I
get a little bit emotional, butI'm just a raw person, I'm just
a real person.
She had paranoid schizophrenia.
So very, very chaoticenvironment.
(14:00):
My brother was also very illRecently.
I lost him back in February dueto chronic illness.
He had a severe autoimmunedisorder that put him in and out
of the hospital.
Thank you for all of his life.
And so I ended up in healthcare.
Obviously I had a way to payfor it right.
(14:23):
So I went into the military.
So I was in the Air Force.
I was an air traffic controllerand I used that to earn my
master's degree in speechlanguage pathology and then I
found some mentors who helped me.
I ended up in the hospitalenvironment.
I love medically basedpediatrics.
I still work with that a lot inthe home.
(14:44):
So my families who are oxygendependent, my families with more
severe muscle dystrophies, downsyndrome, more severe autism
spectrum disorder, and what I'vefound in all of my experience
is this sense of lack of empathyand compassion in healthcare.
(15:06):
All of my experience is this isthis sense of um lack of
empathy and compassion andhealthcare.
Lack of it.
Lack of it, it has truly becomea business.
Josh Porthouse (15:18):
Do you think that's to its detriment or out
of just the eventuality andnecessity of its own sort of
procedures and costs, risinginflation, paying staff?
I mean it's just nature ofcircumstance or?
Sirena Simon (15:32):
I think it's nature, of circumstance, but I
also think it's choice as well,because I started my my business
to really help people and Iwould have parents coming to me
who said nobody would do feedingand swallowing with my child in
(15:56):
the home because they were toocomplex.
I could only go to a hospital.
I was told my child was toosevere, too behavioral.
My child was too severe, toobehavioral.
They wouldn't even give me achance.
I've seen it with my brother,I've seen it with my mother,
(16:25):
where here's a diagnosis andgood luck.
There's no resources, there'sno follow-up, there's no.
But thank you for coming intoday, thank you for seeing me,
but this is all we can do foryou.
So maybe it's not necessarilySomething to be said for honesty
, but that still doesn'tactually provide any assistance.
Correct, correct.
(16:46):
So where's the follow-up?
Where's the empathy in goingokay, you just gave me this huge
diagnosis.
So say, for example, right nowfamilies are really terrified of
their child being diagnosedwith autism spectrum disorder
because they really don't knowwhat it means.
Right, the local news, thischild headbanging.
(17:11):
But little do they know thatthat child headbanging probably
has multiple diagnoses going on.
It's not just autism spectrumdisorder.
Little do they know that itdoes not mean intellectual
disability.
I actually had a parent ask metwo weeks ago and they said well
, if my child has autismspectrum disorder?
And they said, well, if mychild has autism spectrum
disorder, does that mean thatthey're mentally retarded?
(17:33):
And that's exactly how they putit.
So I'm just raw, I'm being outthere and I said actually,
absolutely not.
It means the opposite.
It means they might be a littlebit quirky, but it doesn't mean
that they're not going to talk.
It doesn't mean they're notgoing to have a job.
It doesn't mean a lack ofintelligence we have research
(17:55):
proving that.
So we say here's this diagnosis,but we don't provide them a
meaning to it, we don't providethem information to it.
It's you're lucky.
You're lucky to have somebody,including therapists, to sit
down and say, hey, where are youat mentally, when are you at
(18:16):
mentally in this process?
I care about you and I want tomake sure you understand what
this diagnosis means.
Josh Porthouse (18:26):
Okay, there's a lot of parallels to what you
just brought up.
Okay, might be triggered oroffended, I'm sorry.
(18:47):
Feel free to send a message orlet me know on the website and
we can talk more about it in thefuture as well, but for here
and now at least, serena, whenyou say well, let me start here.
When you say retarded, I'massuming that means the baseline
then is that normal, reasonableperson standard of intellect
and learning and pace andcapacity.
But behind that baseline, right, like not quite there yet.
Sirena Simon (19:11):
Correct so that would be in this family's eyes
when they said that to me, thiswas to them meaning my child
would learn nothing.
They will be two years old forthe rest of their life.
Josh Porthouse (19:26):
Okay, well, and that's a worthwhile
consideration to have, and maybepoorly phrased, maybe
accurately, I'm not a doctoreither, but still it's a
worthwhile consideration, Ithink.
But does that well, okay?
So if that's the case, I thinkI see where this may be
connecting.
Probably then that child isgoing to learn very differently
(19:50):
than the parents or any siblingsor anything else, but probably
to the same impact, through play.
It's just a different modalityof teaching, right.
Sirena Simon (20:01):
Correct, it's absolutely a different modality
of teaching.
Um, I, I will have parents whowill tell me you know, I've been
to this therapist, that speechtherapist, that occupational
therapist.
What makes you different?
Like, are you going to sit mykid down at a table?
(20:24):
Cause they did, and I said no,it doesn't make sense to me to
sit them at a table and forcethem to sit at a table when I
see that they're moving aroundin their chair.
Right, they're moving around,they're squiggling around,
they're not even comfortablesitting in that chair.
I see that they come into thedoor and they're jumping up and
(20:46):
down.
Right, why would I make themsit in a chair if they're moving
all around and their mind isn'tcalm?
The mind isn't calm, the bodyisn't calm.
So we use play to help calmthat body down.
Right, and that might besensory play.
(21:06):
That might be swinging on aswing, that might be jumping on
a trampoline.
But even in those moments wecan still do language therapy.
Right, we can stop that swing,pause it, wait for that eye
contact, let them swing again.
We start building all of thoseskills slowly when we enter
(21:28):
their world, building all ofthose skills slowly when we
enter their world.
If we force a child who doesn'tunderstand our world right,
doesn't understand what an adultmeans.
They have no idea.
They're like okay, you got topay bills.
What's that?
The money tree?
I don't know what that is.
Children have no concept ofwhat an adult is.
They have no concept of whatschool is.
(21:48):
They have none of theseconcepts.
So why are we trying to putthem in that box when they don't
learn that way?
Josh Porthouse (21:57):
Yeah.
Sirena Simon (21:58):
Let's meet them where they learn.
Josh Porthouse (22:00):
Exactly that's what I was going to say, because
we're talking cognition, right,we're talking cognitive
processes of thinking, not theexpectation that either a five,
a 10, a 15 year old or a 35 yearold at that comparable, you
know, intellect level shouldknow the exact same things,
cause if that's the case, I haveno idea what 80 year olds know.
(22:21):
I haven't lived that long tolearn the lessons.
I'm not mature enough.
You know what I mean.
So if that's the case, I'm justas retarded by that definition
and thought process.
Then, because I have no ideathe life lessons in the extent
of maturity that comes withbeing 85, correct, um, as
opposed to say, like we said,any kids or adult aged people
(22:45):
with more childlike mentalitiesin terms of cognition and
processing.
And so when you have to workwith all types of people
cultures, ethnicities, like wesaid, cognitive development ages
, whatever it is.
But when you work with all typesof people, the only thing that
really stands out to me isprobably the most consistent
(23:07):
continuous challenge that I haveto assume you face daily is
patience.
How do you actually developpatience and tolerance to stay
focused, because you getstressed too.
I mean, you're a human likeanybody else.
You know what I mean, when yourstress levels go up and your
cortisol goes up and you justwant to grab something and yell
(23:28):
into a pillow.
You can't especially not in asession, I'm sure.
So what do you do?
You go down the slide, you geton a swing and a trampoline.
I do the same thing.
Sirena Simon (23:38):
I do the same thing, so you bring up a good,
good point.
In order for children to learn,or even adults to learn right,
our mind and our body need to becalm.
And this comes from a personalperspective, because I also have
adhd and I also have pmdd, sothose two are extremely so.
(23:59):
Pmdd, that is calledpre-menstrual dysphoric disorder
.
So if you can imagine, pms onsteroids, that's what it is.
But all right, I'm with you soanybody who has that diagnosis
no yeah so essentially what thatdiagnosis, on top of the adhd,
(24:23):
causes extreme mood swings,extreme mood swings, and it only
lasts for like a week, right.
And those mood swings for me areI can get very angry easily, I
get very anxious.
So I need a lot more selfregulation and tolerance and I
(24:47):
have built into my routinethroughout the day those breaks
that I need for my brain and mybody.
So, for example, there are sometherapists out there.
They can work with familiesback to back in a clinic setting
, and I have some therapists atmy company that do.
(25:07):
But I don't like that.
I prefer being calm at alltimes.
So for me, home health is whereit's at.
Home health is fire to me.
Like three weeks ago it was ahigh, high emotional.
The child had a meltdown, threwthemselves on the floor, had
(25:35):
headbanging, self-harming.
It was a really, really toughsession.
When I get into my car it'scompletely silent and I drive in
silence to my next house.
So for me, I build in thatroutine to build up that
patience and tolerance.
(25:56):
The other thing, too, isknowing yourself and having good
self-understanding of what youcan and cannot tolerate.
My patience level is extremelyhigh, of what you can and cannot
tolerate.
My patience level is extremelyhigh.
Others are not.
(26:16):
If you don't have a highpatience level and that's just
who you are generally as aperson.
That's kind of like yourpersonality.
One is it personality or two?
Are there things that you needto work on yourself?
Because I found that people whoare really quick to anger
(26:38):
there's something else going on.
There's trauma behind that.
There's something else thathasn't been worked out yet.
So I always say for really goodtherapists.
Typically you know they don'tcome from the best of
backgrounds, but a lot of themhave really done that inner work
(27:01):
in their souls and in theirhearts, with help from mental
health counselors, whoever theygot that, help from pastors,
whoever it may be, to go throughthat journey.
So you can not take actionspersonally.
(27:21):
So for example, when a childgoes into a tantrum.
What a lot of times I will seeon a parent's face is one, and
what a lot of times I will seeon a parent's face is one.
Oh, I didn't want this tohappen.
I didn't want it to happen.
Please make it stop.
(27:41):
And I will see tears in theeyes.
I've seen parents their handsshaking.
I have seen parents who willjust say, oh, he's just doing it
to do it or she's just doing itto do it.
But what I've noticed is it'scoming from a place of.
I'm taking it personally.
Josh Porthouse (28:03):
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
Alrighty folks, if you'relooking for more perspective and
more podcasts, you can checkout Transacting Value on Reads
Across America Radio.
Listen in on iHeartRadio,odyssey and TuneIn.
Sirena Simon (28:21):
What I've noticed is it's coming from a place of
I'm taking it personally, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (28:30):
I'm taking it personally.
Sirena Simon (28:31):
Parent.
Yeah, I'm taking it personallythat you're tantruming over the.
You know I gave you a red appleinstead of a green apple today,
and the kid is losing it, right.
So they kind of take itpersonally, because in the back
of their head they're like well,I did everything that I could
(28:52):
as a parent in that moment tomake you happy and you're still
going to tantrum, Right.
Josh Porthouse (28:58):
Okay, you're still Sure, I see the logic,
yeah, yeah.
Sirena Simon (29:02):
So you're still going to do it.
Josh Porthouse (29:03):
So then, what do you do?
But yeah, so then, how?
I mean how?
Yeah, so then, how else couldyou perceive it?
I'm assuming you've alreadygone the entire day, and this is
not necessarily always firstthing in the morning or middle
of the day, when you're fresher,it's the end of the day, when
you're smoked and you're like Ijust need slippers, sweatpants,
ice cream, whatever it is, andnow the apple.
(29:23):
You got to be kidding, it's aTuesday, I don't have time for
this.
How do you work that?
It's such a multifaceted,complex situation, let alone
whoever the individual isthrowing the tantrum.
Because I got to say this too Idon't know specifically what
that's like as a parent, as achild, as the individual here
(29:45):
that you're describing, forexample.
I don't have much here thatyou're describing, for example.
I don't have much resonance inthat moment, but I have a fair
amount of empathy for not havingthe vocabulary to be able to
express what I'm frustratedabout and the emotional burnout
and the social battery that'snot charged enough to
communicate effectively and sayI just need my space right now,
(30:07):
I'll get my own apple.
Thanks, mom, you know it's not.
I get those moments.
Is that what you're describing.
Is that where you start?
Is that how you explain it?
How do you break this down?
Sirena Simon (30:19):
That's actually exactly how I break it down
right.
Okay, again, they are learning,they are, so you kind of have
to, and it goes back to thatpatience and tolerance thing,
right, and I always encourageparents especially.
(30:40):
What is that thing that makesyou okay, right?
So what I mean is, for me, Ipurposely build in those moments
of my day to make sure to calmmy brain to make sure I touch
base with myself and I say okay,you know, um, this makes me
(31:05):
okay, this is my pattern.
I know I'm gonna get in my carand I'm going to have a silent
five minutes, or I'm going toeat my lunch in silence, or
whatever it is to help calm mybrain.
So I always ask parents toowhat are your strategies for
calming your brain, especiallyin those moments?
What are your strategies?
Josh Porthouse (31:27):
Okay To self-soothe, to set boundaries
to however you want to frame it.
I'm assuming it's all the same,right yeah?
Sirena Simon (31:33):
to self-regulate.
Yeah, To me it kind of goes allin the same, because in order
to respond with patience andtolerance, you have to know how
to self-regulate yourself.
It is the number one thing.
I work on with a lot of parentsand I'm not a mental health
counselor.
So I always say let's get some,if you're open to it, let's
(31:58):
introduce some mental healthcounseling to work on these
things.
Because I see it, I see howtired they are in the eyes and I
see how defeated they look.
And first of all, I want to letall the parents know out there
you're doing a great job, You'redoing an amazing job and I'm
tearing up right now.
I know you don't see it, butyou're doing an amazing job and
(32:20):
I appreciate everything you guysdo every single day and I am,
my team and myself.
We consider ourselvesprivileged to work with your
families and to work with yourchildren.
So I just wanted to throw thatout there.
But you know a lot of.
To get back onto track, it's alot of.
(32:42):
What I do is self-regulation inthose moments, even within
myself, Because I have to beself-regulated so I can help the
parent and I have to beself-regulated to help the kid
in those moments, even withinmyself, because I have to be
self-regulated so I can help theparent, and I have to be
self-regulated to help the kidin those moments.
So you have to learn what worksfor you, and sometimes that
means recognizing my child's cryis actually a trigger well is
(33:09):
that a problem.
Josh Porthouse (33:10):
Is it always a bad thing?
Yeah, for what?
Sirena Simon (33:13):
well.
So for some people thatactually bring up trauma when
they hear that's what I meanlike, yeah, I can't.
Josh Porthouse (33:21):
I, you know you, you blame yourself, you feel
guilty and shame and whatever.
Like adoptions happen all thetime because I can't deal with
this kid crying anymore.
You know like, but is it alwaysa bad thing?
You said, is a trigger?
Can it be a good, a trigger fora catalyst for good or
something?
Is that ever possible?
Sirena Simon (33:37):
Yes, I think it is and I do see it in some cases.
So, for example, we work with alot of foster families and we
work with a lot of singleparents Single parents, either
single parents by choice, singleparents or divorce, whatever it
may be.
And so a lot of them these,they are super humans like I.
(34:04):
It is like their body goes intothis fight or flight response.
That is just incredible, and Ilearned just as much from them
too.
So the trigger can go eitherway, and then sometimes the
trigger goes in a good way, in asense of I had a parent look at
(34:25):
me, I want to say, a month agowhen this happened, and they
said ago when this happened, andthey said I need to walk away.
And I congratulated them forcommunicating that to me.
And they said I need you to bethe stronger person right now.
(34:46):
I need to walk away.
And I was like, well, actuallyyou're being the stronger person
because you are walking awayfrom the situation.
You're being the strongerperson.
And then, also, to go hand inhand with that, what led to that
moment is I modeled that moment.
Josh Porthouse (34:58):
You modeled that moment.
Sirena Simon (35:00):
So I modeled.
So.
For example, it happened liketwo weeks before that parent
walked out.
I walked out and I looked atthe parent and I said I need to
take a break, I need to take abreak, and I need to take a
break because I feel I just feelanxious right now and I don't
feel good and I need to walkaway.
(35:23):
And that's what I did.
Josh Porthouse (35:25):
OK.
Sirena Simon (35:25):
I walked away for 10 minutes and then I came back
in the session and then they didit, you know, a couple of weeks
later, go ahead.
Josh Porthouse (35:33):
I have a question about that real quick,
yeah, yeah, just, I don't knowsort of a devil's advocate point
here or counterpoint I'm notsure the right word here but I
think there's a certain amountof necessity to identify and
develop tolerances for differentthings and then, obviously, the
(35:54):
awareness of whatever they are.
I think that's important and Ithink to be able to say this is
one of those moments I've I'vehit my line, either explicitly
out loud or in your head, andthen take the whatever resulting
action.
But I also think it's importantand maybe this is from my, you
know, military background or orwhatever martial arts, whatever,
(36:14):
it is just my own perspectivethat you got to push it
sometimes too, yes, and youlearn discipline and resilience
and structure to chaos, forwhatever life breeds.
Where's the balance for that?
How do you determine the way toadjust?
(36:35):
Okay, now I'm walking away, butnow I'm going to sit here and
deal with it as an individual,not necessarily as a therapist
or as a parent, you know, justin the introspective realm here.
How do you balance the two?
Because there's a time andplace for both.
Sirena Simon (36:54):
I absolutely agree with you and again, it's a very
, very individual response andit goes back to knowing yourself
.
It really goes back to knowingyourself.
Let me put it this way.
I can put it from myperspective than trying to take
it from somebody else'sperspective.
Josh Porthouse (37:14):
Yeah, sure, sure .
Sirena Simon (37:16):
So for me and I've done it, I don't do it's very
rare during a session where Isay, hey, I need to take a break
for five minutes, but typicallyI will tell you before I get to
that point.
I've already seen four or fivedifferent families and it has
just been one of those days backto back where it's just been a
(37:36):
rough day and you're going tohave those, and I just got to a
point where I was like, okay, Ireally need to take a step back,
and usually, typically for me,it's when my thoughts go
negative, as soon as my thoughtstell me I can't do it, I can't
(37:57):
do it, I can't do it, I can't doit.
Or my thought turns into I don'tknow what to do.
And when my thought goes to Idon't know what to do, I have to
tell myself it's probably morelikely my ADHD taking over and
those negative thoughts fromthat taking over.
So I need to go take a step out, take five minutes maybe,
(38:20):
listen for me.
Sometimes I'll I'll listen tolike smooth jazz or something
like that, just to recalibratemy brain, and then I'll come
back.
Josh Porthouse (38:30):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
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Sirena Simon (39:35):
I have to tell myself it's probably more than
likely my ADHD taking over andthose negative thoughts from
that taking over.
So I need to go, take a stepout, take five minutes maybe,
listen For me.
Sometimes I'll listen to likesmooth jazz or something like
that, just to recalibrate mybrain, and then I'll come back.
Josh Porthouse (39:55):
I totally get it , like the threshold between I'm
hungry and I'm hangry, but it'sthe same degree of awareness.
Yeah, absolutely, I got you.
I got you.
Let me ask you this then, realquick, not to necessarily derail
your train of thought but Ithink it's also important to
understand that from just ahuman, an individual human
perspective here not as apatient, not as a child, not as
(40:18):
a parent, none of these otherqualifiers that there's an art
and a science to humanity, andin this case, raising ourselves,
let alone each other, where thescience is what we're
describing right.
But then the art is maybe theawareness or the expression of
it, or ability to communicate itin some way or form or fashion.
But what grounds it?
In my opinion, your, yourcharacter is what you can fall
(40:43):
back on, and maybe the valuesystems are what anchor it.
So, in these times, when youstart to develop your tolerance
or or press your threshold forthese types of things, that's
what you can lean back on, likethat's, that's the trust fall,
it's your value system that'scatching you, you know, or
something to that effect.
So let me ask you this realquick this is a segment of the
(41:04):
show called developing character.
D d d developing character.
Anybody, serena you included,who may be new to this idea two
questions totally as vulnerableand upfront as you want to be.
You can answer it however youlike and to whatever depth.
But my first question is itstarts somewhere and you talked
(41:25):
about your family growing up anda little bit around, how that
informed your influence andpassion around healthcare and
working with people.
But what about your valuesystem?
That was in your environment.
You know what I mean.
What types of values were youraised around growing up, or
were you brought up around orexposed to that you think
contributed to a lot of this asyou were a child?
Sirena Simon (41:49):
It's a very good question, extremely good
question, because in a lot ofsenses I raised myself my father
is very open and honest withthat Even though I was a
military brat.
He was gone, and when dad wasgone, who was taking care of a
little brother?
Who was taking care of thehouse, right.
(42:11):
So I started working in thefourth grade.
I started that side hustle inthe fourth grade.
So I actually what I did isthere was a stable, a horse
stable.
I was obsessed with ridinghorses, obsessed with it.
I was like I want to be a worldchampion in fourth grade.
Little did I know I'd be aspeech pathologist, right.
So I went over and I just putflyers up.
(42:34):
I said I'm going to trademonkeying stalls for horse
riding lessons.
And that's what happened.
And lo and behold, throughthose experiences I got
mentorship.
So I learned how to work, howto trade a skill for money, and
then I started babysitting andall of these other things as
well.
But I would say one of thebiggest things in my life didn't
(43:01):
really start happening until my20s when I was finally
introduced to my aunt.
So I have two aunts, um, oneaunt um.
I wasn't really introduced to,I was exposed to growing up,
like when you're three, four.
Nobody remembers, right um, yeah, and then due to the
(43:23):
chaoticness in my homeenvironment, we didn't really
get to visit them.
She wasn't an active part of mylife.
It wasn't actually until mymother passed that we actually
that she kind of took on thismentorship, mother role and then
same with my other aunts that Iactually had more exposure to.
So these two people areextremely important is they saw
(43:50):
things in me that my husband sawin me but my parents didn't.
So, for example, my dad.
And so with generational trauma,right, generational trauma is
something that I don't thinkpeople really realize gets
(44:12):
passed down and it is a thing itgets passed down.
So, whatever you get raisedwith, with whatever values
you're exposed to, when youbecome a parent you say I want
to do the best that I can, andsometimes you don't even realize
that generational traumaaffected your personal choices.
So for me, I was a feral child.
(44:35):
I'm still a feral person, feraladults, right, but as a female
child and this might betriggering to some.
So I'm just going to put it outthere and it might be also very
controversial as well.
Controversial as well.
I was kind of expected to go tocollege, to get married, I was
(44:56):
expected to have kids, but Idon't think my parents really
knew how to deal with me.
They were like this kid isshe's making A's and B's in
school on her own.
I don't know how she was doingit.
She doesn't match thestereotype.
I was put in a box but, I wasn'tput in a box on purpose.
(45:21):
There was no ill intention inthat whatsoever.
It was just my parents didn'tknow what to do.
They didn't know what to do.
It just kind of came together.
Um so, but both like I had thisrecent conversation with my
aunt um, there was a point whereI had to make the choice of
(45:42):
being child free or not andagain this might be triggering
for some people Um, it was rightafter my wedding.
We I kind of went into thisspiral and it was because of an
event that happened and Ilearned a couple of things.
So what the event was was I hada family member it wasn't even
24 hours within the ending ofour wedding.
Josh Porthouse (46:06):
They did a gender reveal.
Sirena Simon (46:07):
Okay, yeah.
So why it was so triggering forme was because I was like we
just spent all of this money andyou couldn't have waited 24
hours.
You couldn't have waited 24hours Like it couldn't have just
been about my husband and I for24 hours and then, um then it
(46:28):
it.
It kind of solidified thosevalues that a woman like me
isn't important.
A woman like me who has amaster's degree.
Josh Porthouse (46:42):
Do you get what I'm saying Like?
Sirena Simon (46:43):
who has a master's degree.
And so I went into this spotand before we got married we
were pretty like no, we don'twant children, like we already
knew that we didn't wantchildren as a couple.
And then here I am with all ofour closest family members and
(47:04):
they knew, they knew we selectedto be child free and that that
was who we were.
And I questioned all of myidentity in that one moment.
And then after that, like whenI confronted the family member
and I said, hey, you know, Iwish things were handled kind of
differently.
Essentially, I was told viatext message you don't matter.
(47:25):
Well, not, you don't matter.
The exact words were itshouldn't matter because you
weren't going to have kidsanyway.
It shouldn't matter how youfeel.
Josh Porthouse (47:37):
I'll consider it , yeah, okay.
Sirena Simon (47:40):
Correct, so I battled with my identity a very
long time out of that and itactually almost resulted in my
husband's and I's divorce.
Because I was in such a bad,negative headspace and I was
like we need to have kids, weneed to have kids, we need to
have kids.
And my aunt was the one whopulled me aside and when I
(48:04):
finally came out of it and I waslike I don't think I want kids,
aunt Sherry, and she goes yeah,you would have been a terrible
mom.
Kids, aunt sherry and she goesyeah, you would have been a
terrible mom, not like that butshe, she wouldn't joke like that
, but she but she said you wouldhave been miserable.
I knew that.
I knew that from when you werethree years old, that that was
(48:27):
not going to be a part of yourlife.
That was not your mission.
That was not how you were goingto be a part of your life.
That was not your mission.
That was not how you were goingto impact the world.
Was being a mom, and for somepeople, that is how they impact
the world and I am grateful forthem every single day because it
is something, it's a choicethat has never been in my heart
(48:50):
and my soul to do.
So I definitely 100% support it.
But for me, it was impactingthe community through businesses
and not corporates, throughsmall businesses, to empower
young women, to empower families.
That their choices were okay,that their choices were okay.
(49:16):
So my aunts really, reallyshaped that.
And then my other aunt is theone who said you know, serena,
you belong in a boardroom.
You never belonged on in alittle wedding dress.
You never belonged.
And you know, just in this insuburbia, so to speak, she's
like you never belonged there.
I knew that from the moment Imet you, the first time I met
(49:38):
you and she was the one when Istarted talking about my
business and saying you know,I'm scared, I'm really scared,
I'm really, really scared ofdoing this.
And again it went back to thatidentity thing.
Josh Porthouse (49:54):
I'm really really scared of doing this, and
again it went back to thatidentity thing.
Sirena Simon (49:57):
Because, well, I've taken it on Unintentionally
, correct, unintentionally.
I'm thinking in the back of myhead.
I'm female, I can't besuccessful in business Right and
she was just like no.
You are always meant for theboardroom.
Josh Porthouse (50:12):
Go, put on those heels and fear of success is
such a wild thing to hear andthink of, because it's always
like, well, if I fail, I don'tknow how to recover, which is, I
think, legitimate as well.
But if I succeed, I don't knowhow to recover, is, just as, I
think, common in a lot of casestoo.
Sirena Simon (50:30):
Correct and I absolutely agree with you.
Josh Porthouse (50:35):
Yeah.
Sirena Simon (50:36):
That fear of being successful.
What does that mean to youridentity?
Because sometimes, for a personlike me, it actually solidified
my identity.
Right Now, I'm the happiestperson that I've ever been,
because I came out and said thisis who I am.
I love helping people.
(50:58):
I love helping people, but Ialso love business as well.
You know, like I, I truly enjoyit.
Um yeah there's so many thingswe can talk about in so many
other areas we could even getdeeper into it.
Josh Porthouse (51:15):
Well, that's what makes it so cool.
Like we were saying earlier,there's so much complexity and
so many different layers, butall things considered, it's
fairly simple Know yourself,seek self-improvement, know
thyself.
It's all the same sort of Idon't know relative degrees of
stoicism that seem to stillstick hundreds of thousands of
years later.
There's got to be some truth toit.
We can't have gone that farwhere you know, like it's still
(51:38):
a science and so, yeah, I thinkthe thought process is the same.
But now back to your originalpoint.
How crazy must it be mentally,cognitively, to be in a position
where you can't inform peopleof that?
And if it's a basic humandesire and if it's a basic human
need which I'm pretty sure itis, to be able to communicate,
(52:02):
to find your pack and safety andsecurity and be part of the
group, to not be able tocommunicate that for whatever
cognitive reason?
Or, let's say, you're not tosome degree behind the curve or
whatever, like I said,cognitively, but as the parent,
(52:24):
well, isn't it ironic that, bythis standard and societal
metric, you are, you're in theaverage, you're right in the
middle, you, whatever, arenormal, but yet you also can't
communicate?
Strange, frustrating, isn't it?
Yeah, weird and figure out howto make that loop close.
And you're coming up tosomebody again, maybe 35 years
(52:46):
old, acting like a five-year-oldbecause of cognition.
But now, mom, you're a35-year-old acting like a
five-year-old because ofcognition.
But now, mom, you're a35-year-old acting like a
five-year-old out of immaturity,because you lost self-control
or don't understand how toself-soothe, or you know where.
It's the same sort of general Idon't know if it issues the
(53:07):
right word, but issue.
In the moment it's the samesort of point of comparison at
least, and I think.
I think in my most of my careerin the military has been in the
infantry and one of the thingsthat we do we call it either map
tracking or land navigation orwhatever, but it's reading a map
, it's figuring out where to gowithout a GPS, you know, with
sticks and stars instead ofdouble A's, but it's in that
(53:31):
reference to communicate thatwith somebody else over a radio
or in person.
Here's where we are and wherewe need to go.
It has to start with an initialcommon reference point and once
you've both identified oh, Isee that tree, I see that hill,
I know it's here on the map.
Okay, now how do we get towhere you are, that you can
actually start communicating andmaking progress to any extent.
(53:55):
Super cool, super cool.
I didn't intend for thisconversation to go that way at
all, but I'm glad it did, and Ireally appreciate your insight.
Uh, for the sake of time,though and, by the way, I'm more
than willing to have you backon the show, but for right now,
I really only have two morequestions for you because of
time.
One of them all of theseexperiences, from you as a kid
(54:21):
to learning and growing throughyou and yourself, obviously,
getting married, and all thethings that come with learning
about somebody else, and thenyour practice and business.
What has it actually done foryour self-worth?
How do you view you now?
Sirena Simon (54:39):
I love who I am now.
It's taken a long time to lovemyself.
It's taken a very, very longtime to learn how to love myself
.
But I encourage everybody andit takes work.
That's the thing is.
It takes work.
You don't come.
(54:59):
I think it's very rare foranybody to come out and say I
love myself.
But you know what?
And this is something that isprofound.
And we can talk on anotherepisode about children, and this
is I love learning fromchildren.
They are the most humblinghuman beings to learn from,
(55:22):
because children live in thepresent.
They have no idea about thefuture.
They have no idea about thepast.
And you know what they love,who they are.
You know who takes that away.
You know who takes that away wedo as adults.
Josh Porthouse (55:42):
We take that love away.
I always thought it'd beinteresting to meet time
travelers, but from what you'resaying right there, maybe we did
when we were kids and now I'mnot so convinced that that would
have been a cool experience tohave or a fun person to meet,
because what are they going tobring back?
All the life lessons and issuesand emotional baggage?
(56:03):
No thanks, I'm pretty happythrowing rocks at this tree.
Sirena Simon (56:07):
Correct, I'm pretty happy popping bubbles
right now.
I'm pretty happy poppingbubbles right now.
I'm pretty happy chasing afterthat frog, you know.
And I think as a society, thisis where we're going.
Wrong with our kids is we aretaking that love, that love of
(56:30):
life, away from them, of thatlove of life away from them and
we can learn so much from them.
Because we'll take them andwe'll say we want you to be
stuck in this box, versus saying, hey, what do you think about
that?
And believe me, they'll come upwith a solution.
(56:52):
I mean, we already see it.
Like if you watch Kids BakingChampionship I watch it all the
time these kids are amazing inthe kitchen.
They're amazing, right.
But the difference is at thatage, how many kids truly loves
themselves.
Those kids love themselves.
(57:15):
They're more self-regulatedthan most adults are, right?
Josh Porthouse (57:21):
Well, also to that point, though, in
understanding that there's acertain benefit to discovery and
awareness and introspection bythe same parallel.
Let's say, well, any childcooking show for that matter
that sometimes there is a recipeand you need to follow it,
because what you're actually,the expectation placed on you,
(57:43):
is that you make this kind ofcake.
So sometimes you have to playthe rules and there's a time and
a place to discover new recipes.
But in the test kitchen, whycouldn't you put actual carrot
into some sort of pudding or Idon't know whatever.
I'm not a baker, but likethere's times and places for all
of that, and there's got to bea mutual respect for the
boundaries that do exist withincertain aspects of life.
(58:06):
Let's say, but Serena, my secondlife.
Let's say, but Serena, mysecond, or really my last
question.
I guess anybody that wants toreach out to you, to get in
touch with you, to follow up andfind out what is the Plague
Clinic?
Well, sorry, what is SimonHealth and what's it going to
become?
Or any blogs or journals orproducts that end up online as a
(58:29):
result, and all of these otherthings, where do we go?
How do we find out about it?
Sirena Simon (58:34):
Yes, so you can.
Actually, I rarely, rarely dothis.
However, I'm going to put mypersonal number out there, but
please, please, guys, do notblow up my phone, for
unreasonable things.
Josh Porthouse (58:50):
How about this?
How about this for right now?
Um, how about just a website,and then we can forward a link
and people can email you.
How's that?
Sirena Simon (59:01):
yeah, I think that's a better, better solution
.
I just get so excited, I'lltalk to anybody and I'm like yes
, please call me.
Please call me, I'll help youguys out and it actually
happened.
I got a call at 2 am randomlyfrom California and I was like
what?
They're like, yeah, I heardabout you through so-and-so.
I was just like, well, I'm inFlorida, so they're like that's
(59:23):
not going to work.
I was like, yeah, that's notgoing to work, so definitely
it's pretty cool though.
Yeah, it is really cool, um, sodefinitely.
Josh Porthouse (59:37):
Um, theplayclinicnet sweet, all
right, so we'll start there andthen, as people leave messages
or reach out to you through yourwebsite, should you decide at
that point to give them acontact number, uh, maybe we'll
start there.
See where it goes.
And for anybody else, obviously, who's new to my show,
depending on the player you'restreaming this conversation on,
(59:59):
you can click see more, you canclick show more and then, in the
drop down notes the show notes,the description for this
conversation you'll also see alink to Serena's website, so
it'll be able to take you rightthere as well.
Even as you're listening tothis conversation, you can check
her out and see what's going on.
Super cool, I love thisopportunity.
I love this conversation.
I think there's a very highlyunderrated benefit to talking
(01:00:24):
about things like family orfatherhood or parenting or
gaming or, from what I'massuming, millennial parenting
and perspectives on it andeverything that that can
actually do to benefit a societyinstead of just I don't know
destabilize it.
Awesome, I love it.
I appreciate your time, yourinsight, your experience and,
(01:00:47):
frankly, your tolerance forputting up with it, because
without it, this conversationwouldn't have been as cool as it
was had it not been for all thelessons and things you've
learned, so I really yeah, Ireally do appreciate it.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Sirena Simon (01:01:01):
Thank you so, so much, and I hope to hear from
you guys soon.
Josh Porthouse (01:01:06):
Absolutely, and for everybody else who's
listened to the conversation orwatched it, in this case.
I thank you for staying with usfor the conversation.
Any feedback you guys have anyinsight, comments?
You have?
Feel free to go to our websiteat transactingvaluepodcastcom.
Click, leave a voicemail on thehomepage.
You get two minutes.
It's up to you.
(01:01:27):
Say what you like, let us knowwhat you think and obviously, if
you have specific questions forSerena, put them in there.
We'll forward it on to her aswell, and obviously the
playclinicnet can also take allyour feedback.
But, guys, thank you again foryour time Until we talk again
next time.
That was Transacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
(01:01:48):
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedbackfollows time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show.
Please leave a review on ourwebsite,
transactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
(01:02:08):
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
platforms like Spotify, iheartand TuneIn.
You can now hear TransactingValue on Reads Across America
Radio Eastern Standard TimeWednesdays at 5 pm, sundays at
noon and Thursdays at 1 am, headto readsacrossamericaorg.
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a reef and remember,
(01:02:29):
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
(01:02:50):
we'll meet you there.
Until next time.
That was Transacting Value.
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