August 11, 2025 • 59 mins
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Money coach Sarah Jones takes us on a deeply personal journey through her evolution from crippling financial scarcity to empowered financial decision-making. Sarah challenges conventional thinking about financial wellness, introducing her "six pillars of finance"—creating, spending, saving, investing, organizing, and giving. Her perspective is refreshingly pragmatic yet profound: "Every time you spend a dollar, you're voting for the person you want to become." Even seemingly small decisions like choosing home-cooked meals over fast food represent votes for your standards and values.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Porthouse (00:00):
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Sarah Jones (00:49):
The same time you're spending going through
the drive-thru, you could bespending at home cooking a
healthy meal, and that's a votewhere you want your dollars to
go.
That's a vote for the standardof living that you want to be
doing right, and that's what wedo as individuals.
Josh Porthouse (01:05):
Today on Transacting Value.
Who are you when you decide howyou want to invest your money?
See, people decide where theirmoney goes based on one of three
things what they need, whatthey want and what they think
they need or want.
And so, in today's conversation, we're going to talk with the
money coach, sarah Jones, allabout values-based investing,
(01:26):
what finances have done for herand what her life has become now
as a result of her increasingamount of self-worth through the
process.
Guys, I'm Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and from SDYT Media,
this is Transacting Value.
Sarah, how are you doing?
Sarah Jones (01:42):
Hey, josh, I'm great, I'm so excited to be here
today.
Josh Porthouse (01:46):
Me too, because you've got a pretty cool story
and I don't know.
Actually, I do know I've nevertalked to anybody with something
similar to your circumstance,which is kind of exciting for me
.
There's a few themes right,like you're a responsible adult
and you're an experienced adult.
You're not just breaking out onyour own and you know in your
early 20s or something you knowwhat.
(02:08):
I don't want to steal yourthunder.
I'm gonna let you do that.
How about you just take thenext couple minutes?
Who are you, where are you fromand you know what sort of
things are shaping yourperspective on life as it
applies to these kinds of topics?
Sarah Jones (02:18):
Yeah, it's, my story is a little crazy and we
definitely don't have enoughtime to get into all of it,
Right, but I think it'simportant.
You know, one of the things thatI like to share, that I hope
people really gain from theconversations that they have
with me, is that, you know, Iknow it's important for you to
talk about self-worth andeverything, and for me, I didn't
(02:39):
have a whole lot of self-worthfor many years and I am in my
mid forties now, but it's reallytaken me call me a late bloomer
in this area of self-worth andhow it really impacts your life,
From relationships you knowwith your partner, with your
kids, with your money.
(03:01):
I mean, it really impacts allareas.
And so I start off with sayingthat because I am a money coach
now and over the past severalyears of really understanding
and developing my self-worth andlearning more about that and
reflecting on how that's madesuch an impact in my money has
really allowed me then to passthat along to my kids, who are
(03:24):
in their early 20s now, right,and and I can't really correct
all your mistakes, so to speak,but you can move forward with
some things right and and dothings differently, and I think
so much of the time.
People think it's too late forme to change my money story or
it's too late to you know kindof work on my self worth, and
the truth is is it's not toolate.
Josh Porthouse (03:47):
Okay, Well then let me ask you this.
You said the money story.
You mentioned self-worth acouple of times.
What does one have to do withthe other?
How do you see them overlapping?
Sarah Jones (03:57):
Yeah, in so many ways.
That's such a great question.
For many years, um, I had verylow self-esteemesteem, which
translated to low self-worth,and I didn't really live by I
would say necessarily like acore set of values, because I
didn't really know what thosewere.
I had such low, it was just Ididn't think highly of myself at
(04:22):
all.
And where that really impactedand where I really saw that come
through was in money, where Ilived in severe scarcity mindset
for many years, literallyterrified to spend money.
Money went into a savingsaccount and I always say I would
do some shady, you know, toavoid pulling money out, right,
(04:47):
some shady, you know, to avoidpulling money out Right.
I got really good at creatingnew ways to make money, but I
didn't see the self-worth, Ididn't see the value in in
growing my streams of incomethat I already had.
Um, I started a business gosh,almost 18 years ago now and for
many years I didn't feel like Iwas really successful and it had
(05:09):
nothing to do with the business.
It had everything to do with me, right, because I didn't feel
like people, I didn't have astory, nobody cared about little
Sarah, nobody cared about whatI could do to help them and that
really came back to myself-worth and what I, how I
(05:31):
felt about myself.
And then that leads into mymarriage.
You know, I've, um, I'm on mysecond marriage.
My current husband and I we'vebeen together almost 20 years
now, but it greatly impacted mymarriage.
We were on the verge of divorcetwice, um, and you know, people
say that the leading cause ofdivorce is money, and I disagree
with that.
I think that's.
I think that the leading causeof divorce actually has to do
with the way that we communicateabout money.
(05:53):
Right, and a lot of times thatcomes in because we don't have a
.
I didn't believe, for my storyspecifically, I didn't believe
enough in myself to know what Ifor my story specifically, I
didn't believe enough in myselfto know what I, um, how I could
even communicate that to myhusband, right, what, what?
Let me give you an example,josh.
Do you mind if I just share anexample of of something that
really impacted me in mymarriage and money?
Josh Porthouse (06:16):
Oh, not at all.
Sarah Jones (06:18):
And my husband and I have worked through this now.
So if you're listening to this,you're going to say, gosh, he's
, he sounds terrible, he reallyisn't right, he really isn't.
But when he was in arelationship before you know and
and he did things right we alldo things in previous
relationships but when him and Igot together, he made a lot of
(06:38):
comments Like I used to spendall kinds of money on you know
flowers, that this florist andand I used to spend all kinds of
money on you know my ex at thisshop, and we used to do all
these things.
And from my perspective, myhusband didn't do those same
things for me.
(06:59):
But the reason for that was isbecause I didn't have um, I kept
telling him, hey, don't spendmoney there.
He would buy me a gift card andwhat would I do?
I would turn around and sell it.
I would get upset, right,because I lived in scarcity
mindset and I didn't have this.
(07:20):
My self-esteem was was reallylow, right, and so I really was
telling him, I was teaching himhow to treat me and I was really
upset with him for that.
And really it wasn't him, itwas, it was all me, it was all
the way that I was communicatingthese things to him.
(07:41):
So why would he want to spendmoney on me, buy me a gift card,
if I was going to turn aroundand sell it again, right For
those those dollars?
And this is really important.
When it comes back to our moneyspecifically and the
communication, because I didn'tknow how to effectively
communicate to my husband andhim to me either.
(08:02):
Right, what was important to us.
When it came to money in allareas, but I talk specifically
about money, the kind of lifethat we really wanted to live we
did not communicate effectivelyand so we were button heads for
many, many, many years.
Josh Porthouse (08:20):
And so the effective communication you're
referring to, I assume, is notnot just the vocabulary, because
that's like the initiator'sperspective, right?
So what role does each partyhave in this communication that
you guys identified?
Sarah Jones (08:37):
Yeah, and that's a great question.
It's partly the language thatwe use.
Right, it is part of thelanguage that we use, but it's
also identifying how ourpartners hear us.
Josh Porthouse (08:50):
Okay, how do you do that?
Sarah Jones (08:53):
Well, this is a process.
This is not something thathappens overnight, but what I
had to learn was I had to startasking different questions of my
husband.
If I wanted to really get tothe bottom of this and I wanted
to change the way that wecommunicated.
I needed to start askingdifferent questions of my
husband.
If I wanted to really get tothe bottom of this and I wanted
to change the way that wecommunicated, I needed to start
asking different questions ofhim, and oftentimes what we get
caught up in doing is like hey,when are you getting paid?
(09:14):
How much is your check we needto pay bills?
Are you going to sit down withme and write this budget?
That's not effectivecommunication, right?
What became more effectivecommunication is me looking at
my husband and saying, hey, youknow what?
What do you actually?
What do you want out of lifethat you don't feel like you're
getting right now?
Josh Porthouse (09:34):
Oh, interesting.
Sarah Jones (09:36):
What do you value spending your dollars on Like?
Where would you rather spendyour money?
Josh Porthouse (09:41):
Where did that get you?
Sarah Jones (09:43):
Well, it it?
At first not very far, becausehe was like, yeah, we've had
some of these conversations,right, and none of our
conversations ended in anythingthat was productive.
It oftentimes they ended up infights, but I kept at it and
eventually, josh, what happenedwas is I learned that the way
that we were spending money, myhusband didn't feel like he
(10:06):
didn't feel like he was livingthe life that he really wanted
to live.
It wasn't about buying toys, itwasn't about spending money per
se, but he was sick and tiredof me saying hey, we're broke,
no, we can't do that, nope, wedon't have money for that.
He felt like we were doing thethings that I wanted to do, but
not the things that he wanted todo.
(10:26):
He's like how come we alwayscome up with the money for the
stuff that you wanna do and I'mleft over here, like you know,
working 80 hours a week fornothing, right?
And so, by asking differentquestions, I actually got more
to the root cause of what heactually wanted.
It gave him the space to openup in a.
(10:48):
In a way that started todevelop trust between us that it
wasn't going to turn into anargument.
It was really me just trying tounderstand him right and really
listen to what he was saying,with no um, no comeback or no
response right away.
Right, it was really meant tojust gain insight into his
thinking and what he actuallywanted.
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Sarah Jones (12:01):
It was really me just trying to understand him
right and really listen to whathe was saying, with no um, no
comeback or no response rightaway.
Right, it was really meant tojust gain insight into his
thinking and what he actuallywanted now to.
Josh Porthouse (12:23):
That sounds like , I guess, a necessity in a
relationship like with anotherperson, but a luxury when it
comes to a relationshipinternally as an individual.
Because you know, before youget into a relationship, I guess
, first off, congratulations,that is a milestone in itself,
(12:43):
right, I don't want totrivialize that either Like good
job.
But you know, when you get intoa relationship with somebody
and this isn't my I don't knowfield of study, like the Marine
Corps infantry is myprofessional background, so you
know it's a lot lessconversational aptitude and a
little more ineptitude, but youknow that's sort of the baseline
(13:05):
I'm coming from here.
So when it comes torelationships I think between
couples though I think it'seasier to say that it's
important you need to see wherethe other person's coming from
and then make your financialdecisions off of that.
But if you're not in arelationship or a couple or
whatever with somebody else andit's just you and your own
budget and your own decisions,at whatever age, for whatever
(13:27):
first, second, third time inyour life it's happened, I think
it gets overlooked.
I think it's an underratedconversation where you're like
what do I actually care about?
Where do I actually want tospend my money and how do I want
to do it?
Because you can be your ownsystem of checks and balances.
Where you know present, you canbalance out future, you
(13:48):
decisions, if you're a littlebit more intentional, right.
So how do you develop it then,when it's just you and not a
husband, not a spouse, not awhoever?
Sarah Jones (13:59):
That's such a great question.
And I think it's such a greatpoint because a lot of times
people aren't.
They're just hey, it's myincome, it's my expenses and you
know, whatever, right, there'snobody really to bounce those
ideas off of.
What I do when I'm working withclients is a couple of things.
Number one I do ask andencourage them to.
We go through a whole system.
But what do I value spending mydollars on?
(14:19):
What do I want to be doing thatI don't feel like I can do
right now?
So you start really to kind ofpinpoint and pull out some of
these things that you probablyhave not really asked yourself.
We all say like I wish I couldfill in the blank, but when it
really comes down to what do youreally want to be doing with
your money that you don't feellike you can right now, you
(14:40):
start to really pinpoint andpull those things out.
It starts to give you insightinto your own spending.
That then allows you to belooking at where are my dollars
going, where can I reassignthose dollars?
Instead of going to the gasstation and picking up some
snacks, could I reassign thosedollars to my travel fund,
because that's actually whatbrings value to my life, and I'd
(15:02):
really like to be doing more ofthat, right, because that's
actually what brings value to mylife, and I'd really like to be
doing more of that, right?
I think another question to askis what?
What standards am I setting formyself for years, for years,
and even though I was married,that really comes back to
individual and this is gonnathis.
This might be a little TMI, but, you know, for years, I would
(15:24):
wear, you know, undergarmentsfull of holes, right, because I
didn't want to spend the money,but that's a standard that I set
for myself, right?
That's a standard that you setfor yourself.
It's not about the money, it'sa standard in which you're
willing to live.
And when you start to changethose standards, you start to
view how you spend your dollarsdifferently.
Standards you start to view howyou spend your dollars
(15:46):
differently, and so, even aslittle as hey, I'm not going to
wear socks with holes in them,or, you know, undergarments that
aren't supportive anymore,right, it's not about the
spending, it's that standard inwhich you're allowing yourself
to live.
This case in point going through, you know, the drive-through.
Drive-through is a big deal fora lot of people, right?
Hey, it's quick, it'sconvenient.
(16:07):
So we think right, I don't havea lot of time to meal prep, but
that's a standard in whichyou're setting.
Do you know?
You can meal prep at home.
And it's not, again, aboutsaving money per se, but it's
about saving your health andreally directing your dollars.
You get to vote every time youspend a dollar.
It's a voting for the personthat you want to be and it's a
vote for you know the standardsthat you're setting for yourself
(16:28):
.
Josh Porthouse (16:30):
Right.
Sarah Jones (16:30):
So when you're going through the drive through
and let me be clear, there'snothing wrong with the drive
through, I'm not knocking it butwhat I see is is you could be
spending the same amount of timegoing to the grocery store,
getting meals and food thatmaybe are a little bit healthier
for you, that are helping youbuild your you know, build a
healthy body, build a healthybrain, build a healthy financial
(16:52):
system, because you're spendingdollars in ways that are
bringing more value to your lifeand you're not spending any
more time.
But it's that redirect.
Same time you're spending goingthrough the drive through, you
could be spending at homecooking a healthy meal, and
that's a vote where you wantyour dollars to go, that's a
vote for the standard of livingthat you want to be doing Right,
and that's what we do asindividuals.
Josh Porthouse (17:14):
Then that translates into our partners,
our kids, our otherrelationships you said a couple
of things that I think wouldmake really cool t-shirts and
bumper stickers, but as itapplies to this conversation,
right, a vote for the personthat you want to become is such
a powerfully underrepresentedphrase and I think it's such a
(17:38):
ridiculously what's the word?
Ubiquitous application?
Like man, any form of fitness,right?
Physical fitness, mentalfitness, financial fitness,
emotional fitness, behavioral,whatever all the above.
What a crazy powerful point youjust brought up in the infantry
(17:58):
.
When we want to make changes, ifwe've got what's called
indirect fire opportunities,right, direct being arguably a
straight line, indirect sort ofmore like a lob on an arc to hit
a target, whether you can seeit or not.
And when we've got theseindirect fire opportunities, you
really only have two optionsfor how you want to make
corrections to get rounds ontarget, whatever the target
(18:19):
happens to be, and we call itcreeping and bracketing, right.
And so creeping is you makeincremental changes in depth or
laterally, or whatever applies,until you get to the target
without overshooting.
Bracketing is you intentionallyovershoot to a opposite extreme
and then you back up by halfand then go forward by half and
(18:39):
back up by half and go forwardby half until you centralize on
your target right.
Neither is necessarily right orwrong.
It just depends on thecircumstance.
And I think this is anapplication for that similar
point where, in my case, I had afriend at one point say I was a
cat out of the cage.
I had a pretty sheltered lifegrowing up, and so when I first
(19:00):
went to college, I didn't careabout anything.
I just wanted to explore,expand, expound whatever, and
eventually it led to a bunch ofother Xs as well and I just
ended up with debt that I'mstill paying off for absolutely
no reason.
You know, trying to figure outhow to get a full tank of gas
(19:20):
when it was $1.50 a gallon andall of these other things that
really shouldn't have beenproblems when I had a job and I
was going to school onscholarships, and so I think I
went to an extreme and it mademe really uncomfortable spending
money after that, and Ibackpedaled to the opposite
extreme and I said well, I'm notspending money on anything
(19:43):
similar to what you described.
And then I enlisted in theMarine Corps and didn't have to.
You know the sacrifice then wastake my freedoms and my
paycheck, but what are you goingto do?
You know it taught you someresponsibility in the process,
and so the more you learn aboutyourself individually, I think,
the easier it becomes to buildthe habit.
(20:03):
But I'm curious once you have ahabit as sort of a routine or a
habit of thought, you knowbeing doing, spending, whatever
a habit, is it always applicableto the same degree, or how do
you change it then?
Sarah Jones (20:20):
And I think there's nuance in everything, but we
all go into new seasons of life,right, and I think that we just
build on the habits that we had.
You know, there's that sayingthat says you know, the habits
and the actions that you took toget to where you're at now are
not going to be the same onesthat are going to take you to
that next level, and I thinkthat that's true to a certain
(20:41):
extent.
But I also believe that we justbuild on what we've already
done.
For example, my spending habitsand you know, the things that
we went through when the kidswere still at home are very
different now, being full-timeRVers and empty nesters.
Right, we still use a lot ofthe same principles.
We still are spending ourdollars in areas that bring
(21:02):
value to our life, but we do itvery differently now than we did
before, right, and so I thinkit's, I think there's nuance
with every situation, but itjust depends on what season of
life, and and knowing thatyou're always going to be coming
into a new season of life andso you're always going to be
building on what you start todayis not going to be the same
thing that you're doing, youknow, 30 years from now.
(21:24):
You're going to be building onthose habits and those skills as
the seasons of life change.
For a long time, you know, ourmain focus was building up some
savings and getting out of debt.
We've been debt free twice, so,you know, didn't learn my
lesson the first go around.
You know, really took a hard.
You know life throwing a lot ofstuff our way for me to realize
(21:45):
some of the gaps out in themarketplace, right, and the the
information that was out thereto make sure that when we became
debt-free for the second time,I wanted it to be that way
forever.
Um, but that's what.
That was our main focus, and sowe used our money very
differently there.
Now our main focus is buildingour net worth right, and so we
(22:05):
utilize strategies and habitsdifferently now than we did then
.
We probably live more lean nowthan we did then, because
building our net worth and ourinvestments and quote unquote
retirement accounts that'sreally important to us because
we would like to be able toretire Right.
(22:27):
Um, I don't want to have.
I don't want to have to.
That's the key word there.
I don't want to have to workuntil the day I die, which is
what everybody else in my familyhas done Right.
So I want to be able to workbecause I really want to, not
because I have to, and I'm stillin that have to stage Um.
So our priorities, you know,we're using building on those
(22:48):
habits and skills that welearned through these different
seasons, but now our focus is alittle bit differently.
So we live more lean now thanwe did then and we're great with
it because we're reallyreaching those goals and again
we're spending our dollars inways that feel better now than
they've probably ever feltbefore.
Josh Porthouse (23:09):
Well, so then, as it applies to investing,
let's say, your money,regardless of the return, more
time, more income, or whateverbut as it applies to spending
your money, is this sort of inyour experience, defined as like
a pillar of, I don't know,maybe values-based investing,
then?
Or how do you qualify thismindset shift?
Sarah Jones (23:31):
You know, I think I always want people to be
spending their dollars, and whenI say spending, that includes,
you know, saving, investing,giving.
You know it's kind of allrolled up into one.
But I want you to be using yourdollars maybe that's a better
word is using them in ways thatbring value to your life.
And you know, I think that itreally just depends on what's
(23:52):
important to you.
Some people, um, you know they,they, they are more focused on,
you know, traveling, gettingthese experiences, and they're
not so focused on, maybe,retirement traveling, getting
these experiences, and they'renot so focused on, maybe,
retirement.
And I'm just going to use thatas because everybody knows it
right, Everybody seems to be sofocused on, like retirement,
(24:14):
investing and I'm not here tosay whether that's good or bad
or both or neither right.
I just want people to get intothis habit of looking and I do
believe it's a mindset shift ofwhat really brings me value,
what brings value to my life.
But I want to be really reallyclear here, Josh, that it's not
(24:34):
an either or it's not a I can.
I'm not taking it with me whenI die, so I'm going to spend it
all today or I.
You got to have fun today.
You can't save everything forthe future.
Those two mindsets are reallyprevalent and there's a way that
you can do both.
You can live for today, you canexperience today and also plan
(24:55):
for what tomorrow is going tobring.
There's a way to do both.
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Sarah Jones (25:14):
Listen in on iheart radio odyssey and tune in those
two mindsets are reallyprevalent and there's a way that
you can do both.
You can live for today, you canexperience today and also plan
for what tomorrow is going tobring Right.
There's a way to do both.
Josh Porthouse (25:35):
Well, and I think that's the way that
self-awareness plays, being ableto develop that kind of harmony
.
I think balance and maybe thisis semantics, I don't know, but
in my head it's easier tocompartmentalize where balancing
those types of decisionsbecomes the either, or it's the
opportunity cost, the sort ofstereotypical, you know
(25:56):
supply-demand, economic-drivenmindset, I guess.
But I think harmony comes inwhen it becomes the and.
But I think harmony comes inwhen it becomes the and, not the
either or anymore.
And then sustaining that towhatever degree of peace and
(26:36):
contentment you need, becauseyou're more content with your
decisions, maybe, or more apt tomitigate some degree of buyer's
remorse, maybe.
How do you begin to build thatkind of self-reliance, you know,
trusting you're making theright decision without worrying
all the time, and managing youranxiety.
Maybe it's rooted in spending,maybe it's not.
I mean, how did you do it inyour 20s?
How are you doing it in your40s?
How do you coach and advisepeople that are paycheck to
(26:59):
paycheck shift workers?
You know three kids in daycare.
How do you juggle these typesof concepts?
You?
Sarah Jones (27:06):
know three kids in daycare.
How do you, how do you jugglethese types of concepts?
Well, I think number one is Iwant people to feel confident
with their money right and feelconfident in their money
decisions.
So how do we do that?
Number one, it's increasingyour financial literacy.
What I find is that we areexpected we are, quote unquote,
expected to know about money,but the truth is is very few of
us are actually taught aboutmoney.
(27:27):
Very few of us are taught howit flows in and out of our life
and very few of us are taughtreally how to use it in the best
way possible.
We are thrown.
You know, hey, grab a creditcard.
You know, take out a personalloan.
Neither of those are bad.
Right, there's no good or badhere.
I would just want to put thislittle caveat it's the way that
(27:49):
you use them right.
Everything is a tool.
So if you're utilizing thesethings as tools to help you get
farther, great.
Most of us didn't use them orare not using them to help us
get farther.
We actually set ourselves backquite a bit.
So it's just utilizing thosetools, but it's becoming
confident in your moneydecisions.
Most people are not confident intheir money decisions and
(28:11):
that's because they don't havethe literacy.
They actually don't know aboutmoney and we are afraid to ask.
We are afraid to say listen, Idon't know how to make a budget
and, for the record, I don'tcall it a budget, I call it a
money plan.
I talk very differently aboutmoney than a lot of people.
We don't use the B word here.
I want you to plan out yourmoney right, and most people
(28:35):
don't know how to create onethat is realistic and is
sustainable and is meant to leadthem to the places that they
really want to go.
So that's building literacy,and I think people are afraid to
ask that.
So don't be afraid to ask thequestions, because let me tell
you, there really is no stupidquestion and I mean that from
(28:56):
the bottom of my heart when itcomes to money, there's no
stupid question.
So that's how you start tobuild your confidence, to build
on that a little bit youmentioned.
You know people.
You know shift workers, peoplethat have, you know, kids at
home.
Daycare is expensive, rightCost of living, inflation is
hitting all of us.
(29:17):
I, when I'm working with clients, we base all of our teachings
and all of our things around.
I call them, the six pillars offinance, and it's creating,
spending, saving, investing,organizing and giving, and so
everything we do is surroundedthese six pillars, and one of
the main pillars is creatingmoney.
We have to be really good atcreating more money.
(29:40):
This goes back to that standardin which you're setting for
yourself.
This goes back to that standardin which you're setting for
yourself If you're willing tojust get by or barely get by,
you're not going to get to theplaces that you really want to
go because you're setting thatstandard for yourself.
There are ways to make moremoney and create more income so
(30:00):
you can move yourself out of thepaycheck to paycheck cycle.
There are ways.
There's a guy out there and Idon't know if you can post
yourself out of the paycheck topaycheck cycle.
There are ways.
There's a guy out there and Idon't know if you can post this
or not, but I'm going to share.
There is a gentleman out thereI think he's in his mid 20s,
maybe late 20s.
He literally writes a note in aSharpie marker on a potato, an
(30:20):
Idaho potato.
And sends it in the mail and heis making what?
10, 15,000 a month, maybe evenmore than that.
Now, there is absolutely noreason why all of us are not
making more money.
Right, there are ways to makemoney, and so if you're in the
paycheck to paycheck cyclenumber one, you got to get good
(30:41):
at creating more income.
It doesn't necessarily meantaking on another full-time job.
We have to be creative here, andthat can be a really fun
process.
That can be really fun and andyou know, bring out some things
that we didn't even know we hadwithin us.
But that's going to help youmove through some of these tough
times.
And listen, everybody has toughtimes.
(31:03):
I'm not here to say you knowthat tough times.
And listen, everybody has toughtimes.
I'm not here to say you knowthat tough times don't exist.
They absolutely do, andsometimes it's just about you
know, surviving through thosetough times to get to a place
where you really can thrive.
Um, and so I just want to say,if anybody out there is really
in a surviving like life is hitand just get through it.
That's where your focus isright now is just getting
(31:24):
through it, and then we work onthe thriving part I'm finding a
potato, or a friend with asharpie and a potato sometimes I
think you know, so thatsometimes that's all it takes a
little bit of encouragement.
Josh Porthouse (31:38):
You're like, oh well, I can do this, I do know
what you know anything, becauseI think that's something that's
maybe a lost art, you know, it'slike.
It's like relegated into thatpile with thank you cards, like
you can tell somebody good joband it's okay, you know it'll be
all right and and be genuine orauthentic in its delivery.
(32:02):
And it's such a weird thing tome over the last maybe 20 years
to watch, let's say, beingsocial as a medium for
communication become digitizedand totally fall apart.
Isn't it weird, like the socialpsychology that should have, at
(32:22):
least in my opinion, just beenplug and play, and then you add
a keyboard, a mouse and a screenseems like it's totally
devalued itself over time.
Which brings me full circle tothe point I wanted to hit on
(32:43):
that you just made of literacy.
Now, in this developed, firstworld global economy that's
engrossed the entire planet, ismore than being able to read and
write.
I think those are important andI don't want to trivialize
those either.
But you know, when it comes todoing those things, that was a
(33:05):
principle that the farmers andthe fishermen and the
shopkeepers 700 years ago neededNow.
I think it's also being able tolearn, unlearn and relearn.
Different concepts andconstructs of what we're already
familiar with individually canbe applied to some of these
(33:28):
other things, like you talkedabout with money, where
initially you were talking aboutspirituality, basically like
self-actualization, and theexact same things apply to
finance and then relationshipsand communication, but it's all
based on the same underpinningand infrastructure, which is
super cool.
So I just wanted to hit thatreal quick.
(33:50):
And then the point aboututilization that you made.
I learned this a few years agoI'm 37 now.
The words utilization rate asit applies to a credit card, and
I could never I guess I nevereven thought about it, but I
could never figure out why.
It wasn't just the rate thatyou're using.
You know the speed at whichyou're using the credit.
(34:12):
Why is it a utilization rate?
Because I thought utilization atleast my creative writing
teacher said it's when you usesomething in a way other than
what it was initially intended.
And I said, well, but this iswhat it was intended for, but
it's not.
And I'm telling you this Ilearned 34, 35 years old.
Utilization rate is when youuse somebody else's money to
(34:34):
your benefit, not to yourdetriment, because that's what
it's intended for to put you indebt, not to put you in a point
of affluence, and so you knowthe balance compared to the
total offer being theutilization rate.
But everything that you justsaid to me should be in a junior
high course, should be in acoffee table reader, should be
(34:57):
in a I don't know anyconversation, as it fits in the
theme and it's not.
So why not?
It's in the theme and it's not.
Sarah Jones (35:08):
So why not?
You know, I actually disagreewith that because I number one.
I don't want somebody elseteaching my kids their financial
values.
I want to be able.
I think it's us as parents tobe able to teach our kids.
I think it's our job to teachour kids our own financial
values.
I don't.
I think there are some basicprinciples that could be taught,
(35:31):
but I don't know.
Josh, if you remember your highschool years it has been a
minute since I was in highschool but I will tell you, was
I that interested in money atthat time?
No, if it were taught, would Ihave?
Would I have taken in theinformation that I really needed
in the next, you know, five or10 years of my life?
Probably not.
(35:52):
I don't think that theabsorption rate of that
information, what we think right, what we think it should be, is
that let's teach it, you know,to high schoolers.
When they get out, they'regoing to have this information.
They can take it and they runwith it.
But I'll be honest, I don't.
I mean, I know two plus two,but, dang, I got a calculator
now.
So what I learned in highschool, I don't necessarily need
(36:14):
to use those same skills theway that they apply now, because
there's a lot of tools thatwill do that for me, right?
I think that I didn't absorb alot of that then because it
wasn't important to me then.
I didn't see the relevance inmy life at that point.
So I don't think that that's anarea that maybe we need to be
teaching quite honestly in highschool.
(36:38):
I really think that that's us asparents.
I think it's our job to beteaching our kids a lot of these
skills.
I don't want to get into thewhole teaching profession, but
honestly I think too much is puton teachers.
I think we expect too much outof teachers and really it's our
job as parents to be teachingour kids the things that we want
them to learn.
That's a whole rabbit hole thatI don't need to go in.
(37:00):
That's all I will say there.
But I think literacy, I think itis out there, but it's so
overwhelming.
The number one thing thatpeople come to me when they say
is Sarah, I Googled it or Ilooked up or I downloaded this
form, but it didn't reallyexplain it to me.
There's so much I don't knowwhere to start because, as you
(37:20):
said, we're now, we're moreconnected than ever before we
have access to any type ofinformation we can ever want
right now.
But the options it's too much.
Our brains literally cannothandle that many options.
We don't know where to start.
It is overwhelming.
You talk to one person.
They're going to tell you to dothis.
You Google something else, youclick on another link and guess
(37:41):
what?
They're going to tell you to dothe exact opposite.
And you're left in the exactsame situation of non-action.
Right, because we're like Idon't know what's the right path
for me.
Yeah, so I think theinformation is out there, but I
think it's actually too much andthis is what I encourage people
to do.
Then pick a couple of peoplethat you just resonate with.
(38:01):
Go out, read a couple of books.
If something really resonateswith you, if you really like
what that person is saying, thenstart to follow them and really
start to follow.
You know their plan, socialmedia.
Pick a couple of people, watcha couple of videos that you're
like dang, you know what he'sreally speaking my language,
like whatever it is that he said.
It just hit and that's theperson that I want to kind of
(38:25):
you know, follow and gain alittle bit of information from.
Narrow your search down.
Don't look for the personthat's making the most money.
Don't look for the personthat's going to promise you the
most.
Look for the person that youactually resonate with.
It says some things that speakto you that you're like you know
what, I want to hear more.
Where's their next video?
(38:46):
What's the next post thatthey're making?
And then start to kind of takesteps that direction.
Narrow it down a little bit.
Give yourself a little bit ofgrace.
You're not going to learn allof this at once, right, but
narrow your search down a littlebit, right.
And I just want to go back toteaching the kids, because my
(39:09):
kids are in their early twenties.
My son's 25.
My daughter is 23, 22.
I have to think for a second mydaughter's 22.
For much of their life I didnot do a fabulous job of
teaching them good financialskills.
In fact, it was the completeopposite Taught them really well
.
You know you want to learnscarcity mindset.
(39:31):
I was the queen at teachingthem how to live in scarcity,
right.
If you want to talk aboutsomebody who didn't talk about
investing your dollars andspending on, you know, ways that
brought value to your life, Iwas the queen at showing you the
exact opposite how to do that.
And my kids now into theirearly twenties.
(39:51):
I see a lot of those skillsright that they learned from me.
Now they are using in their ownlife, and this goes full circle
.
What I said even in the verybeginning is that it's not too
late.
So now I'm taking theopportunity to go back to my
kids and have differentconversations and say you know
what.
I know that this happened a lotwhen you were little, but
here's what I've learned sincethen.
Here's some ways that maybe wecan.
(40:12):
You know that you can changethe situation that you're in
right now.
Here's what you might look atdoing so you don't feel like
you're living paycheck topaycheck right now.
Right, here's what we're doing.
Having open conversations withmy kids bridges some of those
gaps.
You're not going to change itovernight, but you can start to
(40:34):
plant seeds.
You can start to show them howyou're making changes and the
results of those changes, andthen show them how they can make
the changes in their own life.
So I screwed up for many yearswhen it comes to money and my
kids, but now I get to go backand have different conversations
with them, right, so now, goingforward for them, they get to
(40:58):
say, okay, mom's doing it alittle bit differently, maybe I
can do things a little bitdifferently and we're starting
to break those generationaltraumas.
We're starting to break thosegenerational traumas.
We're starting to break thosegenerational curses.
We're starting to break thegaps right and bridge the gaps.
That what my parents taught meI can start to change what I'm
teaching my kids.
Ad (41:19):
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Josh Porthouse (41:23):
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longer need to escape.
Sarah Jones (42:11):
We're starting to break the gaps right and bridge
the gaps.
That what my parents taught me.
I can start to change what I'mteaching my kids.
Josh Porthouse (42:21):
Well, and maybe that's it right.
Maybe this doesn't need to be ayounger course.
I think everything gets pusheddown to how doesn't need to be a
younger course?
I think everything gets pusheddown to how do we get to younger
, younger and younger?
Well, like any other plan, yougot to find the right age
demographic to apply it.
Otherwise it's too much content, not enough context, and maybe
(42:44):
that's the, maybe that's the newmillennial parenting.
You know, I've said this acouple of times here on the show
too, but if it takes a villageto raise a child, all we're
doing is getting older.
I'm still me.
I still need my village.
You know the difference is, nowthat I'm older, I have to find
it.
I have is getting older.
I'm still me.
I still need my village.
You know the difference is, nowthat I'm older, I have to find
it, I have to create it, I haveto decide if I want to listen to
(43:04):
it, and I can, which is cool.
I think a lot of what youdescribed, that degree or those
degrees of self-reliance andresilience and critical thought
and discourse and inquiry andall these other things that
you've built into your model,has to come from somewhere, and
I think it's a matter of natureversus nurture, or maybe let's
(43:26):
say harmoniously, nature andnurture, and so this is a
segment of the show calledDeveloping Character, and it's
two questions.
In the next couple minutes I'lljust ask you them both up front
and you can explain how youlike.
But my question is rooted inwhat then was nature?
(43:47):
What then has been nurture andexperiential over time?
So, as it applies to your valuesystem, my first question is
what values were you raised on?
What were you brought up around?
What do you remember beingraised on in terms of a value
system?
And my second question is thennow, how has it changed?
What are some of your values?
Sarah Jones (44:09):
This is really hard for me to answer and I don't
want to get emotional here, butI didn't have the best
upbringing right.
I love my parents.
My dad is no longer here andI've I've been estranged from my
mom for I don't know about 18years or so now, maybe about
about that timeframe.
(44:29):
And I will tell you, josh, Ican't.
I don't know that I could evenpinpoint what values I was
raised on.
I will tell you that the thingsthat come to mind were anger is
the first emotion foreverything there.
There wasn't a lot ofexcitement, but anger is your
first emotion.
(44:49):
That and and everything isrooted in anger.
It doesn't matter how hard youwork, you got to keep working
and because there's never enoughmoney Fun, we didn't have fun.
It was always based around workand like the to do list.
(45:13):
Expression of love was neverreally shown outwardly in my
home.
So then now, as an adult,receiving love has been really
difficult for me to learn how todo, and I didn't grow up in a
household that was affectionate.
(45:33):
My husband now veryaffectionate, husband now very
affectionate.
That's hard.
So how has it changed?
Is really understanding ofknowing?
When I was a kid, I wanted thatlove, I wanted to have fun, I
wanted excitement, but I didn'tknow how to ask for it.
I didn't know how to expresswhat it is that I wanted.
(45:55):
And then moving into adulthood,learning how to do those things
has been extremely challengingand it is still something that
I'm actively working on.
The anger was the first thingthat I adjusted, because I knew
I was tired of being an angryperson and I was tired of living
around an angry person.
My first marriage there wassome alcohol abuse and you know
(46:21):
other addictions that wereinvolved, and I think this also
goes back to the standards inwhich we set for ourselves.
Right, I didn't want to live inhouseholds where there was
anger, where there wasn't anyfun, where everything felt like
a chore all the time.
So, moving into adulthood,really leaning on some of my
(46:46):
friends that were non-judgmental, that just helped me get
through the situations, withoutgiving advice, without telling
me what I was doing, right orwrong but just were an ear for
me to lean on.
And I might not be answeringyour question the way that you
really want it to be answered,but for me this is the
transition that I really wentthrough.
That was extremely painful andeven to this day is still
(47:09):
incredibly painful to be workingthrough, because these are the
areas that I'm actively workingon.
Still, what changed, though, Iwill say, is that I didn't want
my kids to grow up in householdslike that.
I didn't want my kids to growup feeling the same things that
I felt, and so, while far fromperfect, far from perfect, the
(47:32):
one thing that I do is I hug mykids and I kiss them and I tell
them I love them.
Every single time I see them,every single time I talk to them
, because that is not somethingI had growing up, and it takes
effort for me to do that, but Iwant them to hear it that,
knowing, the last time I talkedto my mom, guess what the last
thing she said was I love you,never a question.
(47:55):
So, again, I don't know that Ianswered your question fully the
way that you really wanted it,but that's what really comes up
for me when you asked me thatquestion of the things that I
longed for as a kid, the thingsthat I had, but the things that
I didn't know how to ask for I'mreally working on now well.
Josh Porthouse (48:14):
That in itself is powerful and, like we spent
the majority of thisconversation discussing, you
know it's.
It has to start with a certaindegree of self-awareness before
you can decide how you want toinvest your time, your money,
your resources and then to thekind of return you want to get
over what timeline.
You know it's the same conceptas any other degree of what did
(48:37):
you call it money plan.
So you know it.
Any time a vulnerability getsaddressed you have to get down
to the healthy stuff first andscrape out all the uncomfortable
stuff before you can rebuild toa better foundation anyway.
(48:57):
So I totally empathize withwhere you're coming from.
I think there's a lot of thosequestions, or aspects of even
those two questions, that makeeverything a little bit more
vulnerable, a little bit moreuncomfortable, just by their
nature.
It's like you said, asking thosekinds of questions, at least
getting some exposure to thefact that those questions can be
(49:20):
asked, I think, makes a hugedifference, given enough time.
But it's a long-term investmentin yourself.
Anyway, I appreciate youbringing it up, just saying that
then there's a lot ofopportunity and, I think, a lot
of power and insight into theanswers that you brought up.
But I'm curious into all theexperience, then, that you've
(49:41):
gained over the last 20 years,and maybe longer if you want to
attribute.
It is something that I think isa pretty common outcome of
identifying value systems andthat they can continue to derive
and develop and design ordeepen self-worth in the process
.
And so I'm curious in your casenow you seem like a lot more I
(50:07):
don't know integral human being,a little bit more wholesome, a
little bit less ignorant toyourself and how you come across
and where your deficiencies areand where you want your
strengths to be, and moreinsightful.
What have all of theseexperiences done to instigate
your own self-worth now?
Sarah Jones (50:28):
you know, it's I, I think, the culmination of
recognizing that I.
I knew I didn't really like whoI was, but I didn't want to
continue to not like who I wasRight.
And there was.
There was one time, many yearsago, I told my husband I said I
(50:49):
want to walk into a room and Iwant people to know who I am.
And he looked at me and hethought that's why, why on earth
would you want that?
And nothing really came of itat that time.
But it took me a minute torealize why that was important
to me.
For so many years I kind of hidin the background, right,
(51:11):
because I didn't feel like I hadanything of value to give.
I was the fixer.
I wanted to fix other people'slives, because I wanted them to
have a good life.
I am a reformed fixer is what Icall myself now and because I
see compassion a lot more.
(51:33):
And actually the word thatreally encompasses all of this,
I'll just say, is love.
It truly is.
I approach everything with thiseye of love.
Now, how can I show more loveto people?
How can I receive the love?
Where do they need more love intheir life?
Where do I need more love in myown life.
(51:54):
Right, and a lot of this hasactually come just in the past
three and a half years, withtraveling Putting myself in the
most uncomfortable situation ofgetting on the road, and every
single thing we experience isnew.
Every grocery store you go intois a new grocery store.
Think about this for a second.
Everything you do is new whenyou are a full-time RVer.
(52:16):
That was way out of my comfortzone and but because of that,
what I have been able to do isget into different cultures and
different cities and differenttowns and meet people.
And I have so much morecompassion now for people than I
did before because now I'mseeing the way that they're
living.
I got out of my own comfortzone of living in a really small
(52:37):
town for the majority of mylife to now seeing the way that
they're living.
I got out of my own comfortzone of living in a really small
town for the majority of mylife to now seeing the world and
I've only traveled the UnitedStates.
But I see things so differentlynow that I am able to express
love and give love more freelythan I ever was able to before,
and I think it's because I I putmyself in probably the most
(53:01):
uncomfortable, anxiety, anxietyprovoking situation of traveling
, that I was able to open up allthese new um feelings and all
this new compassion towardspeople and their situations and
and um be able to approacheverything through this vision
truly of love.
Josh Porthouse (53:22):
Oh well, I guess , then, congratulations again is
really the only thing I can sayabout it.
You know like it may have takenyou, let's say, 40 years to get
to that point, but ofeverything you've learned in the
last three, based on 40 yearsof hardship or experience or
whatever you want to attributeit to, kind of makes the 40
(53:46):
years worth it, you know, tosome extent, or perspective, uh,
cause then maybe appreciatingthe last three wouldn't have
been as sweet as it was.
So that's, that's a hugeaccomplishment, yeah,
congratulations.
Now let me let me ask you thistoo I guess, for the sake of
time, will we close this up foranybody else who wants to get in
touch with you or for whatever,to follow along with your RVing
(54:10):
or your journey, or, uh, onsocial, or to be a client or
anything.
Any other podcasts you findyourself on, like where do?
Where do people go to stay alittle bit more aligned with you
and try to bring you into theirvillage?
Sarah Jones (54:25):
So I've got a lot of social media links and I'm
not going to list them all outhere.
Maybe you know, maybe those canbe in the show notes, but
really you know Facebook notes,but really you know Facebook.
My main profile, um is where Ishow kind of everything.
Um, but if you look up keepingup with the Joneses FC, so
(54:50):
that's on Facebook, f as infinancial, c as in coach, so
keeping up with the Joneses FC,instagram as well, linkedin, um,
I've even got a small YouTubechannel that shows a little bit
of of what we've got going on.
That's really the best way tosee, uh, you know, kind of
what's going on behind thescenes.
Um, and, and you know, I postJosh, I post stuff every day on
(55:11):
money tips and travel tips andjust life lessons and things
that some funny, quirky thingsabout me.
That, um, you know I haven'tshared before, but now I feel
called to share, so other peopleknow, yeah, she's just human,
just like the rest of us coolkeeping up with the jones's fc
(55:32):
and your other social medialinks, obviously, that we get.
Josh Porthouse (55:34):
for anybody who's new to the show.
Yeah, depending on the playeryou're streaming this
conversation on, click see more,click more.
Click the drop down arrow andin that description that's the
show notes Sarah was talkingabout You'll see links to get to
her links and then that way youcan find her there as well.
Sarah, I appreciate theopportunity, the conversation,
the insight and just theauthenticity.
(55:57):
I think that you brought to atopic like finance and made it
relatable and resonant and Ijust really enjoyed it.
So thanks for your time.
Sarah Jones (56:08):
Thanks so much, josh.
I enjoyed being here and alsothank you for your service.
Josh Porthouse (56:13):
Well, thanks.
I appreciate that For everybodywho's listened to our
conversation.
Obviously, if you like it,there's a few things you can do.
And you know what?
Even if you didn't like it,there's a few things you can do
and I'm going to share that withyou real quick To hear more of
this conversation, in case youmissed the beginning of it, or
to hear any of our otherconversations from all of our
seasons.
(56:33):
I haven't hid any of the earlyseason ones, which maybe is a
regrettable decision, but timewill tell.
But everything that's out.
You can go to our websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom.
Click on episodes.
You can hear everything there.
Totally cool, no problem.
Here's something I think that isreally important.
In the top right-hand corner ofthe home screen there's a
(56:55):
little button that says leave avoicemail.
Now it's two minutes of talktime, it's all yours, and it
sends us an audio file, my teamand I.
Two things I recommend you dowith it.
Take this into account.
One, give us some feedback.
Let us know what you think ofthe show, the theme, the
conversation, my questions, me,my hair, my beard, I don't care,
whatever it is.
Let us know what you think ofthe show.
But two, let Sarah know whatyou think of this conversation.
(57:17):
Let her know what you thinkabout some of the points she
made.
You know feedback makes theworld go round and it's space is
a vacuum.
Earth is not.
So we can talk, we can sharestuff it's totally fine and put
it in the voicemail and thenwe'll forward that audio file
over to Sarah as well, so shegets a little bit more insight
and we help each other growthrough the process.
(57:38):
Sarah, thank you again for theopportunity for the conversation
, for giving up your captain'schair for about an hour of
conversation.
I hope everything goes well foryou and you guys are able to
stay warm wherever you're atright now and get a decent meal
and a good night's sleep orwhatever.
You don't have it right now.
I hope it comes your way soon.
But otherwise, guys andeverybody who watched and
(58:00):
listened to this conversationuntil the next one that was
Transacting Value Thank you toour show partners and folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedback,follows, time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
(58:22):
a review on our websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
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You can now hear TransactingValue on Wreaths Across America
Radio.
Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg.
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
(58:44):
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
(59:05):
we'll meet you there.
Until next time.
That was Transacting Value.
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Sarah Jones (00:49):
The same time you're spending going through
the drive-thru, you could bespending at home cooking a
healthy meal, and that's a votewhere you want your dollars to
go.
That's a vote for the standardof living that you want to be
doing right, and that's what wedo as individuals.
Josh Porthouse (01:05):
Today on Transacting Value.
Who are you when you decide howyou want to invest your money?
See, people decide where theirmoney goes based on one of three
things what they need, whatthey want and what they think
they need or want.
And so, in today's conversation, we're going to talk with the
money coach, sarah Jones, allabout values-based investing,
(01:26):
what finances have done for herand what her life has become now
as a result of her increasingamount of self-worth through the
process.
Guys, I'm Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and from SDYT Media,
this is Transacting Value.
Sarah, how are you doing?
Sarah Jones (01:42):
Hey, josh, I'm great, I'm so excited to be here
today.
Josh Porthouse (01:46):
Me too, because you've got a pretty cool story
and I don't know.
Actually, I do know I've nevertalked to anybody with something
similar to your circumstance,which is kind of exciting for me
.
There's a few themes right,like you're a responsible adult
and you're an experienced adult.
You're not just breaking out onyour own and you know in your
early 20s or something you knowwhat.
(02:08):
I don't want to steal yourthunder.
I'm gonna let you do that.
How about you just take thenext couple minutes?
Who are you, where are you fromand you know what sort of
things are shaping yourperspective on life as it
applies to these kinds of topics?
Sarah Jones (02:18):
Yeah, it's, my story is a little crazy and we
definitely don't have enoughtime to get into all of it,
Right, but I think it'simportant.
You know, one of the things thatI like to share, that I hope
people really gain from theconversations that they have
with me, is that, you know, Iknow it's important for you to
talk about self-worth andeverything, and for me, I didn't
(02:39):
have a whole lot of self-worthfor many years and I am in my
mid forties now, but it's reallytaken me call me a late bloomer
in this area of self-worth andhow it really impacts your life,
From relationships you knowwith your partner, with your
kids, with your money.
(03:01):
I mean, it really impacts allareas.
And so I start off with sayingthat because I am a money coach
now and over the past severalyears of really understanding
and developing my self-worth andlearning more about that and
reflecting on how that's madesuch an impact in my money has
really allowed me then to passthat along to my kids, who are
(03:24):
in their early 20s now, right,and and I can't really correct
all your mistakes, so to speak,but you can move forward with
some things right and and dothings differently, and I think
so much of the time.
People think it's too late forme to change my money story or
it's too late to you know kindof work on my self worth, and
the truth is is it's not toolate.
Josh Porthouse (03:47):
Okay, Well then let me ask you this.
You said the money story.
You mentioned self-worth acouple of times.
What does one have to do withthe other?
How do you see them overlapping?
Sarah Jones (03:57):
Yeah, in so many ways.
That's such a great question.
For many years, um, I had verylow self-esteemesteem, which
translated to low self-worth,and I didn't really live by I
would say necessarily like acore set of values, because I
didn't really know what thosewere.
I had such low, it was just Ididn't think highly of myself at
(04:22):
all.
And where that really impactedand where I really saw that come
through was in money, where Ilived in severe scarcity mindset
for many years, literallyterrified to spend money.
Money went into a savingsaccount and I always say I would
do some shady, you know, toavoid pulling money out, right,
(04:47):
some shady, you know, to avoidpulling money out Right.
I got really good at creatingnew ways to make money, but I
didn't see the self-worth, Ididn't see the value in in
growing my streams of incomethat I already had.
Um, I started a business gosh,almost 18 years ago now and for
many years I didn't feel like Iwas really successful and it had
(05:09):
nothing to do with the business.
It had everything to do with me, right, because I didn't feel
like people, I didn't have astory, nobody cared about little
Sarah, nobody cared about whatI could do to help them and that
really came back to myself-worth and what I, how I
(05:31):
felt about myself.
And then that leads into mymarriage.
You know, I've, um, I'm on mysecond marriage.
My current husband and I we'vebeen together almost 20 years
now, but it greatly impacted mymarriage.
We were on the verge of divorcetwice, um, and you know, people
say that the leading cause ofdivorce is money, and I disagree
with that.
I think that's.
I think that the leading causeof divorce actually has to do
with the way that we communicateabout money.
(05:53):
Right, and a lot of times thatcomes in because we don't have a
.
I didn't believe, for my storyspecifically, I didn't believe
enough in myself to know what Ifor my story specifically, I
didn't believe enough in myselfto know what I, um, how I could
even communicate that to myhusband, right, what, what?
Let me give you an example,josh.
Do you mind if I just share anexample of of something that
really impacted me in mymarriage and money?
Josh Porthouse (06:16):
Oh, not at all.
Sarah Jones (06:18):
And my husband and I have worked through this now.
So if you're listening to this,you're going to say, gosh, he's
, he sounds terrible, he reallyisn't right, he really isn't.
But when he was in arelationship before you know and
and he did things right we alldo things in previous
relationships but when him and Igot together, he made a lot of
(06:38):
comments Like I used to spendall kinds of money on you know
flowers, that this florist andand I used to spend all kinds of
money on you know my ex at thisshop, and we used to do all
these things.
And from my perspective, myhusband didn't do those same
things for me.
(06:59):
But the reason for that was isbecause I didn't have um, I kept
telling him, hey, don't spendmoney there.
He would buy me a gift card andwhat would I do?
I would turn around and sell it.
I would get upset, right,because I lived in scarcity
mindset and I didn't have this.
(07:20):
My self-esteem was was reallylow, right, and so I really was
telling him, I was teaching himhow to treat me and I was really
upset with him for that.
And really it wasn't him, itwas, it was all me, it was all
the way that I was communicatingthese things to him.
(07:41):
So why would he want to spendmoney on me, buy me a gift card,
if I was going to turn aroundand sell it again, right For
those those dollars?
And this is really important.
When it comes back to our moneyspecifically and the
communication, because I didn'tknow how to effectively
communicate to my husband andhim to me either.
(08:02):
Right, what was important to us.
When it came to money in allareas, but I talk specifically
about money, the kind of lifethat we really wanted to live we
did not communicate effectivelyand so we were button heads for
many, many, many years.
Josh Porthouse (08:20):
And so the effective communication you're
referring to, I assume, is notnot just the vocabulary, because
that's like the initiator'sperspective, right?
So what role does each partyhave in this communication that
you guys identified?
Sarah Jones (08:37):
Yeah, and that's a great question.
It's partly the language thatwe use.
Right, it is part of thelanguage that we use, but it's
also identifying how ourpartners hear us.
Josh Porthouse (08:50):
Okay, how do you do that?
Sarah Jones (08:53):
Well, this is a process.
This is not something thathappens overnight, but what I
had to learn was I had to startasking different questions of my
husband.
If I wanted to really get tothe bottom of this and I wanted
to change the way that wecommunicated.
I needed to start askingdifferent questions of my
husband.
If I wanted to really get tothe bottom of this and I wanted
to change the way that wecommunicated, I needed to start
asking different questions ofhim, and oftentimes what we get
caught up in doing is like hey,when are you getting paid?
(09:14):
How much is your check we needto pay bills?
Are you going to sit down withme and write this budget?
That's not effectivecommunication, right?
What became more effectivecommunication is me looking at
my husband and saying, hey, youknow what?
What do you actually?
What do you want out of lifethat you don't feel like you're
getting right now?
Josh Porthouse (09:34):
Oh, interesting.
Sarah Jones (09:36):
What do you value spending your dollars on Like?
Where would you rather spendyour money?
Josh Porthouse (09:41):
Where did that get you?
Sarah Jones (09:43):
Well, it it?
At first not very far, becausehe was like, yeah, we've had
some of these conversations,right, and none of our
conversations ended in anythingthat was productive.
It oftentimes they ended up infights, but I kept at it and
eventually, josh, what happenedwas is I learned that the way
that we were spending money, myhusband didn't feel like he
(10:06):
didn't feel like he was livingthe life that he really wanted
to live.
It wasn't about buying toys, itwasn't about spending money per
se, but he was sick and tiredof me saying hey, we're broke,
no, we can't do that, nope, wedon't have money for that.
He felt like we were doing thethings that I wanted to do, but
not the things that he wanted todo.
(10:26):
He's like how come we alwayscome up with the money for the
stuff that you wanna do and I'mleft over here, like you know,
working 80 hours a week fornothing, right?
And so, by asking differentquestions, I actually got more
to the root cause of what heactually wanted.
It gave him the space to openup in a.
(10:48):
In a way that started todevelop trust between us that it
wasn't going to turn into anargument.
It was really me just trying tounderstand him right and really
listen to what he was saying,with no um, no comeback or no
response right away.
Right, it was really meant tojust gain insight into his
thinking and what he actuallywanted.
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Sarah Jones (12:01):
It was really me just trying to understand him
right and really listen to whathe was saying, with no um, no
comeback or no response rightaway.
Right, it was really meant tojust gain insight into his
thinking and what he actuallywanted now to.
Josh Porthouse (12:23):
That sounds like , I guess, a necessity in a
relationship like with anotherperson, but a luxury when it
comes to a relationshipinternally as an individual.
Because you know, before youget into a relationship, I guess
, first off, congratulations,that is a milestone in itself,
(12:43):
right, I don't want totrivialize that either Like good
job.
But you know, when you get intoa relationship with somebody
and this isn't my I don't knowfield of study, like the Marine
Corps infantry is myprofessional background, so you
know it's a lot lessconversational aptitude and a
little more ineptitude, but youknow that's sort of the baseline
(13:05):
I'm coming from here.
So when it comes torelationships I think between
couples though I think it'seasier to say that it's
important you need to see wherethe other person's coming from
and then make your financialdecisions off of that.
But if you're not in arelationship or a couple or
whatever with somebody else andit's just you and your own
budget and your own decisions,at whatever age, for whatever
(13:27):
first, second, third time inyour life it's happened, I think
it gets overlooked.
I think it's an underratedconversation where you're like
what do I actually care about?
Where do I actually want tospend my money and how do I want
to do it?
Because you can be your ownsystem of checks and balances.
Where you know present, you canbalance out future, you
(13:48):
decisions, if you're a littlebit more intentional, right.
So how do you develop it then,when it's just you and not a
husband, not a spouse, not awhoever?
Sarah Jones (13:59):
That's such a great question.
And I think it's such a greatpoint because a lot of times
people aren't.
They're just hey, it's myincome, it's my expenses and you
know, whatever, right, there'snobody really to bounce those
ideas off of.
What I do when I'm working withclients is a couple of things.
Number one I do ask andencourage them to.
We go through a whole system.
But what do I value spending mydollars on?
(14:19):
What do I want to be doing thatI don't feel like I can do
right now?
So you start really to kind ofpinpoint and pull out some of
these things that you probablyhave not really asked yourself.
We all say like I wish I couldfill in the blank, but when it
really comes down to what do youreally want to be doing with
your money that you don't feellike you can right now, you
(14:40):
start to really pinpoint andpull those things out.
It starts to give you insightinto your own spending.
That then allows you to belooking at where are my dollars
going, where can I reassignthose dollars?
Instead of going to the gasstation and picking up some
snacks, could I reassign thosedollars to my travel fund,
because that's actually whatbrings value to my life, and I'd
(15:02):
really like to be doing more ofthat, right, because that's
actually what brings value to mylife, and I'd really like to be
doing more of that, right?
I think another question to askis what?
What standards am I setting formyself for years, for years,
and even though I was married,that really comes back to
individual and this is gonnathis.
This might be a little TMI, but, you know, for years, I would
(15:24):
wear, you know, undergarmentsfull of holes, right, because I
didn't want to spend the money,but that's a standard that I set
for myself, right?
That's a standard that you setfor yourself.
It's not about the money, it'sa standard in which you're
willing to live.
And when you start to changethose standards, you start to
view how you spend your dollarsdifferently.
Standards you start to view howyou spend your dollars
(15:46):
differently, and so, even aslittle as hey, I'm not going to
wear socks with holes in them,or, you know, undergarments that
aren't supportive anymore,right, it's not about the
spending, it's that standard inwhich you're allowing yourself
to live.
This case in point going through, you know, the drive-through.
Drive-through is a big deal fora lot of people, right?
Hey, it's quick, it'sconvenient.
(16:07):
So we think right, I don't havea lot of time to meal prep, but
that's a standard in whichyou're setting.
Do you know?
You can meal prep at home.
And it's not, again, aboutsaving money per se, but it's
about saving your health andreally directing your dollars.
You get to vote every time youspend a dollar.
It's a voting for the personthat you want to be and it's a
vote for you know the standardsthat you're setting for yourself
(16:28):
.
Josh Porthouse (16:30):
Right.
Sarah Jones (16:30):
So when you're going through the drive through
and let me be clear, there'snothing wrong with the drive
through, I'm not knocking it butwhat I see is is you could be
spending the same amount of timegoing to the grocery store,
getting meals and food thatmaybe are a little bit healthier
for you, that are helping youbuild your you know, build a
healthy body, build a healthybrain, build a healthy financial
(16:52):
system, because you're spendingdollars in ways that are
bringing more value to your lifeand you're not spending any
more time.
But it's that redirect.
Same time you're spending goingthrough the drive through, you
could be spending at homecooking a healthy meal, and
that's a vote where you wantyour dollars to go, that's a
vote for the standard of livingthat you want to be doing Right,
and that's what we do asindividuals.
Josh Porthouse (17:14):
Then that translates into our partners,
our kids, our otherrelationships you said a couple
of things that I think wouldmake really cool t-shirts and
bumper stickers, but as itapplies to this conversation,
right, a vote for the personthat you want to become is such
a powerfully underrepresentedphrase and I think it's such a
(17:38):
ridiculously what's the word?
Ubiquitous application?
Like man, any form of fitness,right?
Physical fitness, mentalfitness, financial fitness,
emotional fitness, behavioral,whatever all the above.
What a crazy powerful point youjust brought up in the infantry
(17:58):
.
When we want to make changes, ifwe've got what's called
indirect fire opportunities,right, direct being arguably a
straight line, indirect sort ofmore like a lob on an arc to hit
a target, whether you can seeit or not.
And when we've got theseindirect fire opportunities, you
really only have two optionsfor how you want to make
corrections to get rounds ontarget, whatever the target
(18:19):
happens to be, and we call itcreeping and bracketing, right.
And so creeping is you makeincremental changes in depth or
laterally, or whatever applies,until you get to the target
without overshooting.
Bracketing is you intentionallyovershoot to a opposite extreme
and then you back up by halfand then go forward by half and
(18:39):
back up by half and go forwardby half until you centralize on
your target right.
Neither is necessarily right orwrong.
It just depends on thecircumstance.
And I think this is anapplication for that similar
point where, in my case, I had afriend at one point say I was a
cat out of the cage.
I had a pretty sheltered lifegrowing up, and so when I first
(19:00):
went to college, I didn't careabout anything.
I just wanted to explore,expand, expound whatever, and
eventually it led to a bunch ofother Xs as well and I just
ended up with debt that I'mstill paying off for absolutely
no reason.
You know, trying to figure outhow to get a full tank of gas
(19:20):
when it was $1.50 a gallon andall of these other things that
really shouldn't have beenproblems when I had a job and I
was going to school onscholarships, and so I think I
went to an extreme and it mademe really uncomfortable spending
money after that, and Ibackpedaled to the opposite
extreme and I said well, I'm notspending money on anything
(19:43):
similar to what you described.
And then I enlisted in theMarine Corps and didn't have to.
You know the sacrifice then wastake my freedoms and my
paycheck, but what are you goingto do?
You know it taught you someresponsibility in the process,
and so the more you learn aboutyourself individually, I think,
the easier it becomes to buildthe habit.
(20:03):
But I'm curious once you have ahabit as sort of a routine or a
habit of thought, you knowbeing doing, spending, whatever
a habit, is it always applicableto the same degree, or how do
you change it then?
Sarah Jones (20:20):
And I think there's nuance in everything, but we
all go into new seasons of life,right, and I think that we just
build on the habits that we had.
You know, there's that sayingthat says you know, the habits
and the actions that you took toget to where you're at now are
not going to be the same onesthat are going to take you to
that next level, and I thinkthat that's true to a certain
(20:41):
extent.
But I also believe that we justbuild on what we've already
done.
For example, my spending habitsand you know, the things that
we went through when the kidswere still at home are very
different now, being full-timeRVers and empty nesters.
Right, we still use a lot ofthe same principles.
We still are spending ourdollars in areas that bring
(21:02):
value to our life, but we do itvery differently now than we did
before, right, and so I thinkit's, I think there's nuance
with every situation, but itjust depends on what season of
life, and and knowing thatyou're always going to be coming
into a new season of life andso you're always going to be
building on what you start todayis not going to be the same
thing that you're doing, youknow, 30 years from now.
(21:24):
You're going to be building onthose habits and those skills as
the seasons of life change.
For a long time, you know, ourmain focus was building up some
savings and getting out of debt.
We've been debt free twice, so,you know, didn't learn my
lesson the first go around.
You know, really took a hard.
You know life throwing a lot ofstuff our way for me to realize
(21:45):
some of the gaps out in themarketplace, right, and the the
information that was out thereto make sure that when we became
debt-free for the second time,I wanted it to be that way
forever.
Um, but that's what.
That was our main focus, and sowe used our money very
differently there.
Now our main focus is buildingour net worth right, and so we
(22:05):
utilize strategies and habitsdifferently now than we did then
.
We probably live more lean nowthan we did then, because
building our net worth and ourinvestments and quote unquote
retirement accounts that'sreally important to us because
we would like to be able toretire Right.
(22:27):
Um, I don't want to have.
I don't want to have to.
That's the key word there.
I don't want to have to workuntil the day I die, which is
what everybody else in my familyhas done Right.
So I want to be able to workbecause I really want to, not
because I have to, and I'm stillin that have to stage Um.
So our priorities, you know,we're using building on those
(22:48):
habits and skills that welearned through these different
seasons, but now our focus is alittle bit differently.
So we live more lean now thanwe did then and we're great with
it because we're reallyreaching those goals and again
we're spending our dollars inways that feel better now than
they've probably ever feltbefore.
Josh Porthouse (23:09):
Well, so then, as it applies to investing,
let's say, your money,regardless of the return, more
time, more income, or whateverbut as it applies to spending
your money, is this sort of inyour experience, defined as like
a pillar of, I don't know,maybe values-based investing,
then?
Or how do you qualify thismindset shift?
Sarah Jones (23:31):
You know, I think I always want people to be
spending their dollars, and whenI say spending, that includes,
you know, saving, investing,giving.
You know it's kind of allrolled up into one.
But I want you to be using yourdollars maybe that's a better
word is using them in ways thatbring value to your life.
And you know, I think that itreally just depends on what's
(23:52):
important to you.
Some people, um, you know they,they, they are more focused on,
you know, traveling, gettingthese experiences, and they're
not so focused on, maybe,retirement traveling, getting
these experiences, and they'renot so focused on, maybe,
retirement.
And I'm just going to use thatas because everybody knows it
right, Everybody seems to be sofocused on, like retirement,
(24:14):
investing and I'm not here tosay whether that's good or bad
or both or neither right.
I just want people to get intothis habit of looking and I do
believe it's a mindset shift ofwhat really brings me value,
what brings value to my life.
But I want to be really reallyclear here, Josh, that it's not
(24:34):
an either or it's not a I can.
I'm not taking it with me whenI die, so I'm going to spend it
all today or I.
You got to have fun today.
You can't save everything forthe future.
Those two mindsets are reallyprevalent and there's a way that
you can do both.
You can live for today, you canexperience today and also plan
(24:55):
for what tomorrow is going tobring.
There's a way to do both.
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Josh Porthouse (25:07):
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Sarah Jones (25:14):
Listen in on iheart radio odyssey and tune in those
two mindsets are reallyprevalent and there's a way that
you can do both.
You can live for today, you canexperience today and also plan
for what tomorrow is going tobring Right.
There's a way to do both.
Josh Porthouse (25:35):
Well, and I think that's the way that
self-awareness plays, being ableto develop that kind of harmony
.
I think balance and maybe thisis semantics, I don't know, but
in my head it's easier tocompartmentalize where balancing
those types of decisionsbecomes the either, or it's the
opportunity cost, the sort ofstereotypical, you know
(25:56):
supply-demand, economic-drivenmindset, I guess.
But I think harmony comes inwhen it becomes the and.
But I think harmony comes inwhen it becomes the and, not the
either or anymore.
And then sustaining that towhatever degree of peace and
(26:36):
contentment you need, becauseyou're more content with your
decisions, maybe, or more apt tomitigate some degree of buyer's
remorse, maybe.
How do you begin to build thatkind of self-reliance, you know,
trusting you're making theright decision without worrying
all the time, and managing youranxiety.
Maybe it's rooted in spending,maybe it's not.
I mean, how did you do it inyour 20s?
How are you doing it in your40s?
How do you coach and advisepeople that are paycheck to
(26:59):
paycheck shift workers?
You know three kids in daycare.
How do you juggle these typesof concepts?
You?
Sarah Jones (27:06):
know three kids in daycare.
How do you, how do you jugglethese types of concepts?
Well, I think number one is Iwant people to feel confident
with their money right and feelconfident in their money
decisions.
So how do we do that?
Number one, it's increasingyour financial literacy.
What I find is that we areexpected we are, quote unquote,
expected to know about money,but the truth is is very few of
us are actually taught aboutmoney.
(27:27):
Very few of us are taught howit flows in and out of our life
and very few of us are taughtreally how to use it in the best
way possible.
We are thrown.
You know, hey, grab a creditcard.
You know, take out a personalloan.
Neither of those are bad.
Right, there's no good or badhere.
I would just want to put thislittle caveat it's the way that
(27:49):
you use them right.
Everything is a tool.
So if you're utilizing thesethings as tools to help you get
farther, great.
Most of us didn't use them orare not using them to help us
get farther.
We actually set ourselves backquite a bit.
So it's just utilizing thosetools, but it's becoming
confident in your moneydecisions.
Most people are not confident intheir money decisions and
(28:11):
that's because they don't havethe literacy.
They actually don't know aboutmoney and we are afraid to ask.
We are afraid to say listen, Idon't know how to make a budget
and, for the record, I don'tcall it a budget, I call it a
money plan.
I talk very differently aboutmoney than a lot of people.
We don't use the B word here.
I want you to plan out yourmoney right, and most people
(28:35):
don't know how to create onethat is realistic and is
sustainable and is meant to leadthem to the places that they
really want to go.
So that's building literacy,and I think people are afraid to
ask that.
So don't be afraid to ask thequestions, because let me tell
you, there really is no stupidquestion and I mean that from
(28:56):
the bottom of my heart when itcomes to money, there's no
stupid question.
So that's how you start tobuild your confidence, to build
on that a little bit youmentioned.
You know people.
You know shift workers, peoplethat have, you know, kids at
home.
Daycare is expensive, rightCost of living, inflation is
hitting all of us.
(29:17):
I, when I'm working with clients, we base all of our teachings
and all of our things around.
I call them, the six pillars offinance, and it's creating,
spending, saving, investing,organizing and giving, and so
everything we do is surroundedthese six pillars, and one of
the main pillars is creatingmoney.
We have to be really good atcreating more money.
(29:40):
This goes back to that standardin which you're setting for
yourself.
This goes back to that standardin which you're setting for
yourself If you're willing tojust get by or barely get by,
you're not going to get to theplaces that you really want to
go because you're setting thatstandard for yourself.
There are ways to make moremoney and create more income so
(30:00):
you can move yourself out of thepaycheck to paycheck cycle.
There are ways.
There's a guy out there and Idon't know if you can post
yourself out of the paycheck topaycheck cycle.
There are ways.
There's a guy out there and Idon't know if you can post this
or not, but I'm going to share.
There is a gentleman out thereI think he's in his mid 20s,
maybe late 20s.
He literally writes a note in aSharpie marker on a potato, an
(30:20):
Idaho potato.
And sends it in the mail and heis making what?
10, 15,000 a month, maybe evenmore than that.
Now, there is absolutely noreason why all of us are not
making more money.
Right, there are ways to makemoney, and so if you're in the
paycheck to paycheck cyclenumber one, you got to get good
(30:41):
at creating more income.
It doesn't necessarily meantaking on another full-time job.
We have to be creative here, andthat can be a really fun
process.
That can be really fun and andyou know, bring out some things
that we didn't even know we hadwithin us.
But that's going to help youmove through some of these tough
times.
And listen, everybody has toughtimes.
(31:03):
I'm not here to say you knowthat tough times.
And listen, everybody has toughtimes.
I'm not here to say you knowthat tough times don't exist.
They absolutely do, andsometimes it's just about you
know, surviving through thosetough times to get to a place
where you really can thrive.
Um, and so I just want to say,if anybody out there is really
in a surviving like life is hitand just get through it.
That's where your focus isright now is just getting
(31:24):
through it, and then we work onthe thriving part I'm finding a
potato, or a friend with asharpie and a potato sometimes I
think you know, so thatsometimes that's all it takes a
little bit of encouragement.
Josh Porthouse (31:38):
You're like, oh well, I can do this, I do know
what you know anything, becauseI think that's something that's
maybe a lost art, you know, it'slike.
It's like relegated into thatpile with thank you cards, like
you can tell somebody good joband it's okay, you know it'll be
all right and and be genuine orauthentic in its delivery.
(32:02):
And it's such a weird thing tome over the last maybe 20 years
to watch, let's say, beingsocial as a medium for
communication become digitizedand totally fall apart.
Isn't it weird, like the socialpsychology that should have, at
(32:22):
least in my opinion, just beenplug and play, and then you add
a keyboard, a mouse and a screenseems like it's totally
devalued itself over time.
Which brings me full circle tothe point I wanted to hit on
(32:43):
that you just made of literacy.
Now, in this developed, firstworld global economy that's
engrossed the entire planet, ismore than being able to read and
write.
I think those are important andI don't want to trivialize
those either.
But you know, when it comes todoing those things, that was a
(33:05):
principle that the farmers andthe fishermen and the
shopkeepers 700 years ago neededNow.
I think it's also being able tolearn, unlearn and relearn.
Different concepts andconstructs of what we're already
familiar with individually canbe applied to some of these
(33:28):
other things, like you talkedabout with money, where
initially you were talking aboutspirituality, basically like
self-actualization, and theexact same things apply to
finance and then relationshipsand communication, but it's all
based on the same underpinningand infrastructure, which is
super cool.
So I just wanted to hit thatreal quick.
(33:50):
And then the point aboututilization that you made.
I learned this a few years agoI'm 37 now.
The words utilization rate asit applies to a credit card, and
I could never I guess I nevereven thought about it, but I
could never figure out why.
It wasn't just the rate thatyou're using.
You know the speed at whichyou're using the credit.
(34:12):
Why is it a utilization rate?
Because I thought utilization atleast my creative writing
teacher said it's when you usesomething in a way other than
what it was initially intended.
And I said, well, but this iswhat it was intended for, but
it's not.
And I'm telling you this Ilearned 34, 35 years old.
Utilization rate is when youuse somebody else's money to
(34:34):
your benefit, not to yourdetriment, because that's what
it's intended for to put you indebt, not to put you in a point
of affluence, and so you knowthe balance compared to the
total offer being theutilization rate.
But everything that you justsaid to me should be in a junior
high course, should be in acoffee table reader, should be
(34:57):
in a I don't know anyconversation, as it fits in the
theme and it's not.
So why not?
It's in the theme and it's not.
Sarah Jones (35:08):
So why not?
You know, I actually disagreewith that because I number one.
I don't want somebody elseteaching my kids their financial
values.
I want to be able.
I think it's us as parents tobe able to teach our kids.
I think it's our job to teachour kids our own financial
values.
I don't.
I think there are some basicprinciples that could be taught,
(35:31):
but I don't know.
Josh, if you remember your highschool years it has been a
minute since I was in highschool but I will tell you, was
I that interested in money atthat time?
No, if it were taught, would Ihave?
Would I have taken in theinformation that I really needed
in the next, you know, five or10 years of my life?
Probably not.
(35:52):
I don't think that theabsorption rate of that
information, what we think right, what we think it should be, is
that let's teach it, you know,to high schoolers.
When they get out, they'regoing to have this information.
They can take it and they runwith it.
But I'll be honest, I don't.
I mean, I know two plus two,but, dang, I got a calculator
now.
So what I learned in highschool, I don't necessarily need
(36:14):
to use those same skills theway that they apply now, because
there's a lot of tools thatwill do that for me, right?
I think that I didn't absorb alot of that then because it
wasn't important to me then.
I didn't see the relevance inmy life at that point.
So I don't think that that's anarea that maybe we need to be
teaching quite honestly in highschool.
(36:38):
I really think that that's us asparents.
I think it's our job to beteaching our kids a lot of these
skills.
I don't want to get into thewhole teaching profession, but
honestly I think too much is puton teachers.
I think we expect too much outof teachers and really it's our
job as parents to be teachingour kids the things that we want
them to learn.
That's a whole rabbit hole thatI don't need to go in.
(37:00):
That's all I will say there.
But I think literacy, I think itis out there, but it's so
overwhelming.
The number one thing thatpeople come to me when they say
is Sarah, I Googled it or Ilooked up or I downloaded this
form, but it didn't reallyexplain it to me.
There's so much I don't knowwhere to start because, as you
(37:20):
said, we're now, we're moreconnected than ever before we
have access to any type ofinformation we can ever want
right now.
But the options it's too much.
Our brains literally cannothandle that many options.
We don't know where to start.
It is overwhelming.
You talk to one person.
They're going to tell you to dothis.
You Google something else, youclick on another link and guess
(37:41):
what?
They're going to tell you to dothe exact opposite.
And you're left in the exactsame situation of non-action.
Right, because we're like Idon't know what's the right path
for me.
Yeah, so I think theinformation is out there, but I
think it's actually too much andthis is what I encourage people
to do.
Then pick a couple of peoplethat you just resonate with.
(38:01):
Go out, read a couple of books.
If something really resonateswith you, if you really like
what that person is saying, thenstart to follow them and really
start to follow.
You know their plan, socialmedia.
Pick a couple of people, watcha couple of videos that you're
like dang, you know what he'sreally speaking my language,
like whatever it is that he said.
It just hit and that's theperson that I want to kind of
(38:25):
you know, follow and gain alittle bit of information from.
Narrow your search down.
Don't look for the personthat's making the most money.
Don't look for the personthat's going to promise you the
most.
Look for the person that youactually resonate with.
It says some things that speakto you that you're like you know
what, I want to hear more.
Where's their next video?
(38:46):
What's the next post thatthey're making?
And then start to kind of takesteps that direction.
Narrow it down a little bit.
Give yourself a little bit ofgrace.
You're not going to learn allof this at once, right, but
narrow your search down a littlebit, right.
And I just want to go back toteaching the kids, because my
(39:09):
kids are in their early twenties.
My son's 25.
My daughter is 23, 22.
I have to think for a second mydaughter's 22.
For much of their life I didnot do a fabulous job of
teaching them good financialskills.
In fact, it was the completeopposite Taught them really well
.
You know you want to learnscarcity mindset.
(39:31):
I was the queen at teachingthem how to live in scarcity,
right.
If you want to talk aboutsomebody who didn't talk about
investing your dollars andspending on, you know, ways that
brought value to your life, Iwas the queen at showing you the
exact opposite how to do that.
And my kids now into theirearly twenties.
(39:51):
I see a lot of those skillsright that they learned from me.
Now they are using in their ownlife, and this goes full circle
.
What I said even in the verybeginning is that it's not too
late.
So now I'm taking theopportunity to go back to my
kids and have differentconversations and say you know
what.
I know that this happened a lotwhen you were little, but
here's what I've learned sincethen.
Here's some ways that maybe wecan.
(40:12):
You know that you can changethe situation that you're in
right now.
Here's what you might look atdoing so you don't feel like
you're living paycheck topaycheck right now.
Right, here's what we're doing.
Having open conversations withmy kids bridges some of those
gaps.
You're not going to change itovernight, but you can start to
(40:34):
plant seeds.
You can start to show them howyou're making changes and the
results of those changes, andthen show them how they can make
the changes in their own life.
So I screwed up for many yearswhen it comes to money and my
kids, but now I get to go backand have different conversations
with them, right, so now, goingforward for them, they get to
(40:58):
say, okay, mom's doing it alittle bit differently, maybe I
can do things a little bitdifferently and we're starting
to break those generationaltraumas.
We're starting to break thosegenerational traumas.
We're starting to break thosegenerational curses.
We're starting to break thegaps right and bridge the gaps.
That what my parents taught meI can start to change what I'm
teaching my kids.
Ad (41:19):
All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
Josh Porthouse (41:23):
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This isn't just an episode.
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(42:08):
longer need to escape.
Sarah Jones (42:11):
We're starting to break the gaps right and bridge
the gaps.
That what my parents taught me.
I can start to change what I'mteaching my kids.
Josh Porthouse (42:21):
Well, and maybe that's it right.
Maybe this doesn't need to be ayounger course.
I think everything gets pusheddown to how doesn't need to be a
younger course?
I think everything gets pusheddown to how do we get to younger
, younger and younger?
Well, like any other plan, yougot to find the right age
demographic to apply it.
Otherwise it's too much content, not enough context, and maybe
(42:44):
that's the, maybe that's the newmillennial parenting.
You know, I've said this acouple of times here on the show
too, but if it takes a villageto raise a child, all we're
doing is getting older.
I'm still me.
I still need my village.
You know the difference is, nowthat I'm older, I have to find
it.
I have is getting older.
I'm still me.
I still need my village.
You know the difference is, nowthat I'm older, I have to find
it, I have to create it, I haveto decide if I want to listen to
(43:04):
it, and I can, which is cool.
I think a lot of what youdescribed, that degree or those
degrees of self-reliance andresilience and critical thought
and discourse and inquiry andall these other things that
you've built into your model,has to come from somewhere, and
I think it's a matter of natureversus nurture, or maybe let's
(43:26):
say harmoniously, nature andnurture, and so this is a
segment of the show calledDeveloping Character, and it's
two questions.
In the next couple minutes I'lljust ask you them both up front
and you can explain how youlike.
But my question is rooted inwhat then was nature?
(43:47):
What then has been nurture andexperiential over time?
So, as it applies to your valuesystem, my first question is
what values were you raised on?
What were you brought up around?
What do you remember beingraised on in terms of a value
system?
And my second question is thennow, how has it changed?
What are some of your values?
Sarah Jones (44:09):
This is really hard for me to answer and I don't
want to get emotional here, butI didn't have the best
upbringing right.
I love my parents.
My dad is no longer here andI've I've been estranged from my
mom for I don't know about 18years or so now, maybe about
about that timeframe.
(44:29):
And I will tell you, josh, Ican't.
I don't know that I could evenpinpoint what values I was
raised on.
I will tell you that the thingsthat come to mind were anger is
the first emotion foreverything there.
There wasn't a lot ofexcitement, but anger is your
first emotion.
(44:49):
That and and everything isrooted in anger.
It doesn't matter how hard youwork, you got to keep working
and because there's never enoughmoney Fun, we didn't have fun.
It was always based around workand like the to do list.
(45:13):
Expression of love was neverreally shown outwardly in my
home.
So then now, as an adult,receiving love has been really
difficult for me to learn how todo, and I didn't grow up in a
household that was affectionate.
(45:33):
My husband now veryaffectionate, husband now very
affectionate.
That's hard.
So how has it changed?
Is really understanding ofknowing?
When I was a kid, I wanted thatlove, I wanted to have fun, I
wanted excitement, but I didn'tknow how to ask for it.
I didn't know how to expresswhat it is that I wanted.
(45:55):
And then moving into adulthood,learning how to do those things
has been extremely challengingand it is still something that
I'm actively working on.
The anger was the first thingthat I adjusted, because I knew
I was tired of being an angryperson and I was tired of living
around an angry person.
My first marriage there wassome alcohol abuse and you know
(46:21):
other addictions that wereinvolved, and I think this also
goes back to the standards inwhich we set for ourselves.
Right, I didn't want to live inhouseholds where there was
anger, where there wasn't anyfun, where everything felt like
a chore all the time.
So, moving into adulthood,really leaning on some of my
(46:46):
friends that were non-judgmental, that just helped me get
through the situations, withoutgiving advice, without telling
me what I was doing, right orwrong but just were an ear for
me to lean on.
And I might not be answeringyour question the way that you
really want it to be answered,but for me this is the
transition that I really wentthrough.
That was extremely painful andeven to this day is still
(47:09):
incredibly painful to be workingthrough, because these are the
areas that I'm actively workingon.
Still, what changed, though, Iwill say, is that I didn't want
my kids to grow up in householdslike that.
I didn't want my kids to growup feeling the same things that
I felt, and so, while far fromperfect, far from perfect, the
(47:32):
one thing that I do is I hug mykids and I kiss them and I tell
them I love them.
Every single time I see them,every single time I talk to them
, because that is not somethingI had growing up, and it takes
effort for me to do that, but Iwant them to hear it that,
knowing, the last time I talkedto my mom, guess what the last
thing she said was I love you,never a question.
(47:55):
So, again, I don't know that Ianswered your question fully the
way that you really wanted it,but that's what really comes up
for me when you asked me thatquestion of the things that I
longed for as a kid, the thingsthat I had, but the things that
I didn't know how to ask for I'mreally working on now well.
Josh Porthouse (48:14):
That in itself is powerful and, like we spent
the majority of thisconversation discussing, you
know it's.
It has to start with a certaindegree of self-awareness before
you can decide how you want toinvest your time, your money,
your resources and then to thekind of return you want to get
over what timeline.
You know it's the same conceptas any other degree of what did
(48:37):
you call it money plan.
So you know it.
Any time a vulnerability getsaddressed you have to get down
to the healthy stuff first andscrape out all the uncomfortable
stuff before you can rebuild toa better foundation anyway.
(48:57):
So I totally empathize withwhere you're coming from.
I think there's a lot of thosequestions, or aspects of even
those two questions, that makeeverything a little bit more
vulnerable, a little bit moreuncomfortable, just by their
nature.
It's like you said, asking thosekinds of questions, at least
getting some exposure to thefact that those questions can be
(49:20):
asked, I think, makes a hugedifference, given enough time.
But it's a long-term investmentin yourself.
Anyway, I appreciate youbringing it up, just saying that
then there's a lot ofopportunity and, I think, a lot
of power and insight into theanswers that you brought up.
But I'm curious into all theexperience, then, that you've
(49:41):
gained over the last 20 years,and maybe longer if you want to
attribute.
It is something that I think isa pretty common outcome of
identifying value systems andthat they can continue to derive
and develop and design ordeepen self-worth in the process
.
And so I'm curious in your casenow you seem like a lot more I
(50:07):
don't know integral human being,a little bit more wholesome, a
little bit less ignorant toyourself and how you come across
and where your deficiencies areand where you want your
strengths to be, and moreinsightful.
What have all of theseexperiences done to instigate
your own self-worth now?
Sarah Jones (50:28):
you know, it's I, I think, the culmination of
recognizing that I.
I knew I didn't really like whoI was, but I didn't want to
continue to not like who I wasRight.
And there was.
There was one time, many yearsago, I told my husband I said I
(50:49):
want to walk into a room and Iwant people to know who I am.
And he looked at me and hethought that's why, why on earth
would you want that?
And nothing really came of itat that time.
But it took me a minute torealize why that was important
to me.
For so many years I kind of hidin the background, right,
(51:11):
because I didn't feel like I hadanything of value to give.
I was the fixer.
I wanted to fix other people'slives, because I wanted them to
have a good life.
I am a reformed fixer is what Icall myself now and because I
see compassion a lot more.
(51:33):
And actually the word thatreally encompasses all of this,
I'll just say, is love.
It truly is.
I approach everything with thiseye of love.
Now, how can I show more loveto people?
How can I receive the love?
Where do they need more love intheir life?
Where do I need more love in myown life.
(51:54):
Right, and a lot of this hasactually come just in the past
three and a half years, withtraveling Putting myself in the
most uncomfortable situation ofgetting on the road, and every
single thing we experience isnew.
Every grocery store you go intois a new grocery store.
Think about this for a second.
Everything you do is new whenyou are a full-time RVer.
(52:16):
That was way out of my comfortzone and but because of that,
what I have been able to do isget into different cultures and
different cities and differenttowns and meet people.
And I have so much morecompassion now for people than I
did before because now I'mseeing the way that they're
living.
I got out of my own comfortzone of living in a really small
(52:37):
town for the majority of mylife to now seeing the way that
they're living.
I got out of my own comfortzone of living in a really small
town for the majority of mylife to now seeing the world and
I've only traveled the UnitedStates.
But I see things so differentlynow that I am able to express
love and give love more freelythan I ever was able to before,
and I think it's because I I putmyself in probably the most
(53:01):
uncomfortable, anxiety, anxietyprovoking situation of traveling
, that I was able to open up allthese new um feelings and all
this new compassion towardspeople and their situations and
and um be able to approacheverything through this vision
truly of love.
Josh Porthouse (53:22):
Oh well, I guess , then, congratulations again is
really the only thing I can sayabout it.
You know like it may have takenyou, let's say, 40 years to get
to that point, but ofeverything you've learned in the
last three, based on 40 yearsof hardship or experience or
whatever you want to attributeit to, kind of makes the 40
(53:46):
years worth it, you know, tosome extent, or perspective, uh,
cause then maybe appreciatingthe last three wouldn't have
been as sweet as it was.
So that's, that's a hugeaccomplishment, yeah,
congratulations.
Now let me let me ask you thistoo I guess, for the sake of
time, will we close this up foranybody else who wants to get in
touch with you or for whatever,to follow along with your RVing
(54:10):
or your journey, or, uh, onsocial, or to be a client or
anything.
Any other podcasts you findyourself on, like where do?
Where do people go to stay alittle bit more aligned with you
and try to bring you into theirvillage?
Sarah Jones (54:25):
So I've got a lot of social media links and I'm
not going to list them all outhere.
Maybe you know, maybe those canbe in the show notes, but
really you know Facebook notes,but really you know Facebook.
My main profile, um is where Ishow kind of everything.
Um, but if you look up keepingup with the Joneses FC, so
(54:50):
that's on Facebook, f as infinancial, c as in coach, so
keeping up with the Joneses FC,instagram as well, linkedin, um,
I've even got a small YouTubechannel that shows a little bit
of of what we've got going on.
That's really the best way tosee, uh, you know, kind of
what's going on behind thescenes.
Um, and, and you know, I postJosh, I post stuff every day on
(55:11):
money tips and travel tips andjust life lessons and things
that some funny, quirky thingsabout me.
That, um, you know I haven'tshared before, but now I feel
called to share, so other peopleknow, yeah, she's just human,
just like the rest of us coolkeeping up with the jones's fc
(55:32):
and your other social medialinks, obviously, that we get.
Josh Porthouse (55:34):
for anybody who's new to the show.
Yeah, depending on the playeryou're streaming this
conversation on, click see more,click more.
Click the drop down arrow andin that description that's the
show notes Sarah was talkingabout You'll see links to get to
her links and then that way youcan find her there as well.
Sarah, I appreciate theopportunity, the conversation,
the insight and just theauthenticity.
(55:57):
I think that you brought to atopic like finance and made it
relatable and resonant and Ijust really enjoyed it.
So thanks for your time.
Sarah Jones (56:08):
Thanks so much, josh.
I enjoyed being here and alsothank you for your service.
Josh Porthouse (56:13):
Well, thanks.
I appreciate that For everybodywho's listened to our
conversation.
Obviously, if you like it,there's a few things you can do.
And you know what?
Even if you didn't like it,there's a few things you can do
and I'm going to share that withyou real quick To hear more of
this conversation, in case youmissed the beginning of it, or
to hear any of our otherconversations from all of our
seasons.
(56:33):
I haven't hid any of the earlyseason ones, which maybe is a
regrettable decision, but timewill tell.
But everything that's out.
You can go to our websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom.
Click on episodes.
You can hear everything there.
Totally cool, no problem.
Here's something I think that isreally important.
In the top right-hand corner ofthe home screen there's a
(56:55):
little button that says leave avoicemail.
Now it's two minutes of talktime, it's all yours, and it
sends us an audio file, my teamand I.
Two things I recommend you dowith it.
Take this into account.
One, give us some feedback.
Let us know what you think ofthe show, the theme, the
conversation, my questions, me,my hair, my beard, I don't care,
whatever it is.
Let us know what you think ofthe show.
But two, let Sarah know whatyou think of this conversation.
(57:17):
Let her know what you thinkabout some of the points she
made.
You know feedback makes theworld go round and it's space is
a vacuum.
Earth is not.
So we can talk, we can sharestuff it's totally fine and put
it in the voicemail and thenwe'll forward that audio file
over to Sarah as well, so shegets a little bit more insight
and we help each other growthrough the process.
(57:38):
Sarah, thank you again for theopportunity for the conversation
, for giving up your captain'schair for about an hour of
conversation.
I hope everything goes well foryou and you guys are able to
stay warm wherever you're atright now and get a decent meal
and a good night's sleep orwhatever.
You don't have it right now.
I hope it comes your way soon.
But otherwise, guys andeverybody who watched and
(58:00):
listened to this conversationuntil the next one that was
Transacting Value Thank you toour show partners and folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedback,follows, time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
(58:22):
a review on our websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
platforms like Spotify, iheartand TuneIn.
You can now hear TransactingValue on Wreaths Across America
Radio.
Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg.
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
(58:44):
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
(59:05):
we'll meet you there.
Until next time.
That was Transacting Value.
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