Pregnancy Alchemy with Pilar Lesko: The Medicine of the Bare Minimum, Entrepreneurship and Inviting More Spiritual Energy Into Your Work, & Navigating Death and Grief in Pregnancy

Episode Transcript
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Ellie (00:03):
Welcome to Transformed by Grief.
My name is Ellie Thomas and Iam here to guide you on your
transformational grief journeyFrom feeling lost, raw and
brokenhearted, questioningeverything in you and around you
, to reconnecting to the truthof who you are and the beauty,
fulfillment and vibrancy of lifethat is still available in you

(00:27):
and through you.
On this podcast, we explore thedepths of what it means to say
yes to life again after you'vebeen broken open by pain and
grief.
We will explore what it meansto create a deep, loving and
reverent relationship toyourself, to grief and to life
in a way that allows you tobegin to rebuild from the inside

(00:49):
out and to create a powerfulfoundation for a joy-filled,
alive feeling and fulfillinglife you love.
Hello, welcome back to the show.
Everyone, I feel reallyemotional as I open up this

(01:11):
episode, the first Transformedby Grief podcast episode that
has been aired and published andshared for you since I found
out that I was pregnant inFebruary 2025.
It's actually pretty funny togo back and look and see that

(01:35):
the last episode, which is likeit felt like the energy of its
own standalone season of potencyand power and fire.
It felt like it was kind of theentryway into what was about to
happen and I had no idea.
I had no idea what was comingmy way and in the last couple

(02:00):
weeks I have slowly found moreand more energy, more and more
words, more and more desire toshare this whole process and
this whole experience with you.
What 2025 has been, the ways ithas deeply shifted and changed
me and also opened me and tappedme so much more fully into

(02:26):
myself, and how that dance withwhat my work is has been
involved in that, and how thathas impacted the ongoing grief
journey.
And after recording thisincredible conversation with one
of my long-term mentors, pilarLesko, which I am so honored to

(02:49):
bring to you and to be one ofthe vessels that gets to share
the intense and immense level ofheart that she has, that I have
, that we share together in ourmany differences and also our

(03:10):
similarities of our paths.
As I was anticipating sharing itwith you, I really wanted to
record a full-on episode for youall about just leading up to
the now, before I shared thisand I was planning on doing that
last week and I made space todo that on my calendar and it

(03:32):
was in my focus and then wereceived just some news of
unexpected things in pregnancyand things that need to be
considered and potentiallyshifted a little bit, and I had
to truly live the energy and themedicine that is this episode
and walk myself through theprocess of meeting all of the

(04:01):
emotion that was here and all ofthe humanness, and also feeling
the profound divinity andreassurance that my husband and
I have both felt alive in ourhearts in this process, and to
open and trust that when thisepisode comes out, it is the
perfect reintroduction to who Iam through this journey and it's

(04:26):
only going to change again soon, I'm sure, as I give birth in
the next couple weeks or monthsand also just the deep trust
that this is the most perfectintroduction to topics that I
cannot wait to explore with youin the weeks to come.

(04:48):
I have many episodes and sharesand wisdom portals and nuggets
that I have recorded that Ican't wait to be dripping out
for you over the next few weeks.
This feels like its own kind ofmini season of the show, of all
of this heart, energy and lovethat is here to share and put

(05:13):
out into the world before babyarrives, and then I will
probably take another break andjust let it all marinate and
come back to life in its newform again.
So today's episode is extremelyspecial.
It is a long, long, long timecoming.

(05:36):
I mentioned that at thebeginning and share a little bit
.
But Pilar has been a mentor ofmine since.
But Pilar has been a mentor ofmine since well, actively since

(06:09):
the beginning of 2020, when Ihad this massive opening and
shift in the way, own deep innerunravelings and work with
another long-term mentor and washungry to join everything that
was happening with me on theinside, with my work and my
business and my sense of callingto entrepreneurship, and also
while honoring my energy andhonoring who I was discovering
that I was and all of thedeconditioning that was

(06:31):
happening in me through thatprocess.
And so it's been almost sixyears and potentially it has
been six years since weinitially connected.
But I have been in Pilar'sfields and her containers of all

(06:56):
kinds since then and justcontinue to receive so much from
her as a mentor, as a teacher,as a, as I mentioned in this
episode.
The feeling I've always gottenfrom her is just like this older
soul sister that she has beento me without necessarily even

(07:16):
knowing it and in the processleading up to my mom's death,
her last year of life.
I had many dreams where Pilarshowed up in them and had some
very powerful accompanimentenergetically in that process
with my mom and I have shared somuch life and so much loss with

(07:44):
her and in her spaces in a waythat has been deeply nourishing,
and it feels like an incrediblefull circle moment to share
with you that she shares for thefirst time publicly some of
that process in her own life andwhat that has been like in the
past couple months for heraround a loss that has occurred

(08:08):
while she has been pregnant.
So I feel incredibly honored toget to be the oh I don't even
know what to call it likesteward of this conversation and
to get to share it with you.
We go into so so, so much.

(08:28):
We talk about entrepreneurshipand what I call now the medicine
of the bare minimum, beingprojector, feminine beings that,
through our bodies, have beenslowed down to what has felt
like zero in the external tocreate life internally and

(08:52):
everything that has opened up inhealing for each of us in
parallel ways and very differentways as well, being in
different states of business.
We both share our heart andmedicine so fully in this
conversation and we go intogrief and grieving those we have

(09:14):
already lost.
She shares the process ofgrieving her most recent loss.
We talk about social media andhow it feels from this place and
what it's like to be walkingthis line between divine
creation and absolute humannessat the same time, and there's

(09:36):
just incredible richness andwisdom alive here for you, and I
can't wait to hear how it landsin your heart and your being
and your life and what it feelslike.
It opens.
So, pilar, to you.
Thank you for trusting me,thank you for loving me, all

(09:57):
these being such an incrediblyopen and integrous teacher,
always willing to offer yourmedicine as it is now and also

(10:19):
let it evolve and refine throughlife.
So much of my profoundrelationship for life.
I think it was inevitable thatthat happened in me, but so much
of it has been supported by thework that you do and that we
have done together, and so thankyou.

(10:43):
Thank you for trusting me, forbeing here, for opening your
heart and your wisdom and forthe listener.
There are a few really importantannouncements I want to make
sure you know about before wedive into the episode.
The first is that I have verylimited but sacred spaces

(11:03):
available for one-on-one workbefore I leave for maternity
leave at the end of October.
If you have felt the call towork together or if, through
this episode or any otherepisode, you feel the call to
work with each other, now is themoment, the time I am sure I
will offer space again in 2026,but I don't know exactly when

(11:25):
that will be and I can feel therichness and the ripeness of the
medicine and the perfect timingof this container and the
container of working one-on-onewith people in this time period.
And so I have kept space openand if you feel the call, I

(11:46):
invite you in.
There is the option for afour-week container with me
where we meet weekly, andthere's also an option for a
one-on-one private grief flowfor you or for a small group of
people, like your family or yourcommunity.
And the second really importantannouncement for right now is
that Melina and I are leadingour last Sacred Ground Ceremony

(12:11):
for Grief and Growth onSeptember 28th of this month.
That's the last Sunday of themonth.
It's at 1 pm Eastern, 10 amPacific, and these ceremonies
have now almost been running fora year.
Again, we will run them at somepoint in 2026, but we do not

(12:33):
know exactly when that will beand how frequently we will do
them.
After this big transition andafter I complete my maternity
leave and these gatherings, Ican feel how important this last
one is.
These gatherings have been asource of life and healing for
so many women in the past year,and if you have felt the call to

(12:57):
join any one of them and havenot been able to, this is the
moment to do that.
So I will leave the links inthe show notes for both
one-on-one work and for SacredGround to make it really easy
for you.
Please also feel free to reachout to me if you have questions.
And yeah, I can say that I thinkit's clear in this episode, but

(13:24):
there is so much deepenedmedicine alive here in the
process of what 2025 has been,and I can't wait to continue to
offer it, continue to let itdeepen and to involve and share
it with the perfect people rightnow as it is.

(13:46):
In further episodes that arecoming out in the coming weeks,
I will share more about the waysthat the sanctuary will be
transforming in this time, butfor now, one-on-one work and
coming to Sacred Ground feelslike exactly what is supposed to

(14:08):
be out there, so I welcome youin if that is for you.
I can't wait to work with you,to be with you, to support you
in that process, whether it bejust with me or with the
beautiful group that's formingfor Sacred Ground at the end of
the month, or with the beautifulgroup that's forming for Sacred
Ground at the end of the month,and if you feel called to dive
into Pilar's medicine in any way.

(14:28):
After this episode, I havelisted her membership and every
other way you can find her andconnect with her in the show
notes, her membership.
The Hive has been somethingthat I have been a part of for
years, on and off now, and hasbeen one of my favorite places

(14:50):
to be in the online world.
So if that calls to you and theexplorations of business and
energy that we explore here feelalive for you, make sure to
check those out as well.
Without further ado, here isthis incredibly deeply

(15:11):
nourishing, powerful,heart-filled and opening
conversation with Pilar Lesko.
Hello, welcome back to theTransformed by Grief podcast.

(15:42):
I'm really honored today tohave a longtime teacher and
someone that I consider to be.
You feel have always felt likean older soul sister to me, and
yet you're younger in your humanyears, but I have received so
much just in sisterly andprofound mentorship and teaching

(16:06):
from you.
So, pola Ilesco, welcome toTransformed by Grief.
Thank you for being here, thankyou for having me.

Pilar (16:13):
I'm so happy to be here.

Ellie (16:15):
I'm so glad to have you.
I shared a little bit of thiswith you already, but I wanted
to say it here and elaborate alittle bit.
Wanted to say it here andelaborate a little bit.
When I started the show, it wasvery much meant to be an Ellie
show, not a lot of guests Icould feel that very clearly.
But there's a few people thatI've just wanted to jive with

(16:37):
and you've been on the shortlist of those people since the
very beginning and I also wasalways tuning into where I was
at with myself and inrelationship to you as a teacher
and mentor and someone that Ihave looked up to and received
from and you know all of thedynamics that I've just moved

(16:57):
through and my own reverence ofbeing with you in that role and
I often got this little tap likeyeah, you'll talk to Pilar at
some point, but it's not timeyet.
And recently that felt like itstarted to clear and then when I

(17:17):
found out that you are alsopregnant, everything was just
like oh, I was like whoa, thingsare happening and I have felt
so incredibly deepened intomyself in a way that I can show
up to this conversation from adifferent place with you now and
welcome you in in a differentway, and I am so kind of in awe

(17:41):
of the under, under workings andunravelings that are happening,
so this feels extremely special.
Years in the making.
For context.
I will share a little bit in anintro, but for context, I've
known you virtually for five,over five years, like five and a

(18:01):
half years, over five years,like five and a half years.
And wow, thinking of the methat maybe I've known you for
almost six I think.
I remember booking in and in akind of exploratory session and
I was, oh my gosh, I feel likesuch a different person.
That is so wild to think aboutthat.
But yeah, this really feelslike an incredible moment to

(18:26):
come together and talk aboutsome really potent alchemical
aspects of pregnancy and grief.
And I even feel like there'sthis conversation around work
and especially as projector,human design projectors, but
just in general thatentrepreneurs that wants to

(18:49):
weave into.
So thank you for being here.
Anything you would like toshare as we begin?

Pilar (19:01):
I'm just really honored to be here.
I'm just really honored to behere and I remember you.
In 2020, and I know you weredifferent, I know we were all
different, but your medicine wasthere.
It was there.

(19:22):
It was so clear and powerful.
You brought the whole ProjectorMagic group together.
Through sharing your heart, wehad our first shared moment of
total silence, just witnessingyou.
That had never happened on acall before.
That was you and that's was youand that's who.

(19:44):
That's who you still are, justmore you and, not surprisingly,
that was about grief.

Ellie (19:53):
So I feel like the interweaving of so much of our
it's just expanding, but so muchof our connection and so much
that you've offered me and thatI've learned and then has become
my own version, has been thisbeautiful interweaving of giving

(20:15):
grief space and also cominginto fullness with my work and
the ongoing dance of that, andit feels like now that's just
being amplified and added to.
But, yeah, okay.
So I think of grief andpregnancy as very similar in

(20:38):
many ways and, at the same time,very different, obviously.
And the first thing that I wantto ask you is when somebody is
grieving or when somebody ispregnant, asking how somebody is
is not, doesn't, makes no sense.
It's like how are you in thismoment?
What are you moving throughright now?
Things can change from hour tohour, from minute to minute.

(21:00):
So where do you find yourselfin your process right now and
how are you today?

Pilar (21:07):
Oh, that's such a good point.
Let's see today, and in myprocess today, I feel uh,

(21:41):
good-ish, um, physically.
I just had a hard weekend.
I said I just had a hard fewdays physically, uh, which also
kind of results in having a hardtime energetically and
emotionally and psychically and,to give context to that, my
whole pregnancy or not my wholepregnancy.
But since I've started to feela little bit better, I'll get

(22:07):
really excited like a child whothinks it has all the energy in
the world and I'll be like this,feel really unwell again and
have to accept that that wasn'twho I was.

(22:32):
Now.
That was just part of what washappening and inevitably there's
ebbs and flows.
So I just had a really big ebband now I'd say I'm kind of like
coming back up, maybe headingtowards flow, and then the let's

(22:52):
see the like, what I'm in, notjust how I'm feeling or not just
how I'm doing today, time doingtoday A very, a very, very

(23:19):
bizarre level of acceptance.
Like I didn't know acceptancecould go this deep, and that's
not just the last few days,that's been the last few months,
but it just keeps gettingdeeper and I am nowhere near

(23:43):
close to meeting who I amthrough this.
I feel like I've met 1% of her,but the 1% that I've met is so
markedly different and feelslike a version of myself that

(24:09):
part of me knew I wanted.
Part of me didn't know I wanted.
And if you would have shown herto me even six months ago, and
then all that her and all thepast versions of me would have
laughed like there's no way youaccess that that quickly.
There's no way you access thatthat quickly.
There's no way you become thator feel that that quickly.
Okay, and then the final thingI'll add is this and this is

(24:34):
cool is Chris and I are startingto together, on our own, and
together deepen in meeting thepersonality of the baby and
we're like terrified terrifiedof mine too.

(24:55):
That's hilarious yes, we'relooking.
I'm like what are we gonna do?
And chris is like it's gonna befine.
Yeah, that kind of sums up allthe different spots happening,
oh my gosh, wait, let's talkmore about that for a second.

Ellie (25:13):
because, um, this child inside of me is so active and I
am scared, shitless and like,and everyone turns to me and I'm
like, yeah, because Ellie, youare so active, and I'm like, no,
but this is another level, thespunk level, and even as we've
been exploring names there'sbeen a few names I'm like I like

(25:35):
that name, but it is not spunkyenough for this human.
It is, first of all, I thinkit's so wild to have to name a
human when you haven't met themyet.
But, uh, or come up with ideas.
But also, it's been sofascinating.
I'm like, yeah, I love it, butit just doesn't work for this
child, because the energy hereis so, so beautifully wild and

(25:58):
also that level of surrenderthat is needed to this process,
and while also being in the deep, knowing that this is my child
and you know we, we know eachother and we are here for this
and this is all interwovenpurposefully.

Pilar (26:17):
Yeah, it's so wild, anything's why you two are the
perfect person to name her Like.
Because because you've thenaming process is so beautiful
and ancient.
It's not just you and yourhusband thinking separate from

(26:50):
your collaboration with the babyabout names.
It's like thinking into thecollaboration, yeah, and you'll
feel her like yes, that's a goodname, or that's my name, yeah.

Ellie (27:14):
It's a really, it's a really special process.
Okay, I want to go back tofeeling the physical aspects of
this process and how thatinterweaves with the quick
deaths and the quick welcomingin of parts of you that you

(27:35):
never imagined could come in sofast.
I was you know this, obviously,but nobody else listening may.
Um, I was in your mastermindwhen I found out that I was
pregnant and I had invested andstarted from a very different
place, looking at my life from avery different place, looking
at what I wanted to focus onfrom a very different place, and

(28:01):
I was humbled to the core.
And the process of finding outwhich felt so right, and also
just the unraveling happened soquickly and I could even feel it
.
When I look back again, feel itkind of the month beforehand
already starting to happen, buthow quickly and I explained this

(28:23):
happening in grief a lot toowhere like an atom bomb goes off
and then the ripples movereally quickly at the beginning
and then they slow down, butthey are there for a long, long,
long time and you are justmeeting every ripple and so the
velocity in which you're meetingthem at the beginning is very
intense potentially, but thenover time they're spread out

(28:44):
infinitely.
And so that was my experiencein this too.
It was like, oh yes, this ishappening, this is real.
Here we are, boom and life youknow life being as I knew it
being shattered, and then alsothe ripples that were met over
and over and over again, so muchof which came on with the
limitations of my body and thelimitations of my energy.

(29:09):
For me, I, from what I'vegathered, you've been pretty
sick.
I wasn't as physically sick,but I was so fatig literally I
can get food and be in bed andthat is it.

(29:30):
And having to enter into a levelof trust and welcoming that I
mean that was as I've offeredthis idea, but I'm starting to
call it the medicine, themedicine of the bare minimum and
the intense initiation thatthat was and has been and

(29:51):
continues to be, and also thelessons of starting to let go of
so quickly what isn't going tobe included in the season, and
that is an ongoing process, andan ongoing process in motherhood
, I can imagine.
But something that I reallyfelt, so accompanied by our

(30:15):
mastermind group and by you, andalso tremendous grief, was in
that for me of the ideas and thevisions and the what I thought
this, you know this what Ithought this season was going to
be, and coming into what yousaid, that acceptance on a level
that you didn't know waspossible place, but initiated

(30:36):
through the body.
What comes up for you aroundthat?

Pilar (30:42):
That's such a good description of all of it.
I went and I'm going throughsomething really similar.
I'm trying to decipher where tobegin because this story for me
, is all intertwined, yes, andit's woven into the conception.

(31:07):
So let's start there.
So I got a very strong feelingwhen we were and I don't even
like this phrase because ittrying to conceive like I really

(31:28):
don't like that phrase it'sit's like we were co-creating to
conceive, we were collaboratingto conceive, but we weren't.
I was trying, I was trying,chris was making art, he he was
in total flow, I was trying andI, we were sitting in bed one

(31:50):
night and I felt so clearly the,the spirit who I was in
communication with and was itknew.
I knew it was in communicationwith and was it knew, I knew it.
I'd known it for around a year.
This, this specific spirit, andI feel like this is a very

(32:17):
strong foreshadowing to itspersonality and our dynamic.
But I I felt it like I'm notcoming down until, like you,
work through this thing more,and the thing was this energy of
working myself to death overresponsibility, and it wasn't

(32:38):
like nurturing about it.
It was like your uterus feelshostile.
I don't want to be in it.
It was like your uterus feelshostile.
I don't want to be in it, andit was just so clear and it
wasn't.
Hey, you need to heal thiswhole thing.
And it also wasn't news to methat that wanted to transform

(33:02):
again, because that's beentransforming for a really long
time.
But as we were conceiving it,the over responsibility I just
call it the working myself todeath energy, which is an
extreme way to put it, because,if I'm being more grounded about
it, the majority of this energywasn't mine.

(33:24):
It just pulsed through mysystem and my first energy
center really strongly, and it'salways an interesting thing to
talk about, because we're usedto hearing stuff like this and
then seeing images of coalminers or people breaking their

(33:45):
back in a job they despise.
When for me, this, this energy,was coexisting in a career that
I'm absolutely in love with.
It.
It wasn't so black and white,but it it snaked its way kind of
through everything and we haduh, we had a number of things

(34:06):
happen in a very small period.
One was we found out we neededto move.
I was in a very busy season inthe business and then we were
trying to conceive and it waslike my plate of trying and
doing and responsibility got sofull.
And it wasn't responsibility.

(34:30):
The way I was relating toeverything was sticking it all
on my back, not sitting it infront of me and being in
relationship to it.
And when we added conceiving,it was just so obvious that the
spirit was like no, like that,I'm not being created.
Like this, like this is not howit's going down.

(34:55):
And that night I I had uh, I wasreally overwhelmed, I had hit a
wall and I opened up to Chrisand one of the things I said,
which it's like it's how I feltin the moment, but I understood

(35:19):
more of the picture than this,but I said I feel like
something's wrong with mebecause we're I, we're not
getting pregnant, like I like, Ifeel like something's wrong
with me.
And and Chris heard that andwas like he, he, it upset him so

(35:42):
much that this was anexperience I was having and he
didn't even really know I washaving that experience.
And he looked at me and I cried.
I had like a nice dry, heevycry and I had a really, really
beautiful release and I wasn'tseeing clearly and it was like

(36:06):
the thing I was expecting tohear back, not from Chris, but
from the way those energies inmy space would have talked to me
was we'll just keep pushing.
And I looked at him, thinking Iwas going to hear something like
that.
And he looked at me and waslike take everything that's not
the essentials off your platetomorrow.
He looked at me and was liketake everything that's not the

(36:27):
essentials off your platetomorrow.
He's like rearrange the wholebusiness if you have to.
He was like give yourself abreak, take a sabbatical, change
everything.
He was like you're allowed todo that.
It's not even just you'reallowed.
We are able to do that.
And he was like you're not 25anymore driving with negative

(36:51):
dollars in your bank account.
This is something we can do.
And to have a man who sees me sodeeply hear that whole, change
it with, with with no concern ofgetting a house, conceiving the
business, like none of thatmattered to him at all.

(37:13):
And he said he's like I'd livein a box with you, you, me and
the baby can.
It was like.
And that, uh, that window fromhaving that release to the next
day, rearranging everything andopening up this glorious space.

(37:36):
We were pregnant, I thinkwithin the week it w.
It was like the spirit wassitting on my shoulder with its
like weird clock, its weirdwatch, where, like, the time's
all wrong and everything's goingin different directions.
It was like I'm ready, but youneed to do a little bit of

(37:58):
rearranging, and so that was.
If you want to look at it inthis way, that was an element of
the seed.
The beginning said you have tolet go of this for me to come in
.
And then the pregnancy has beenjust an absolute dissolution of

(38:20):
exactly like you said, anythingthat is not the bare minimum,
of exactly like you said,anything that is not the bare
minimum, and saying bye-bye toall the parts of my identity
that were wrapped up in anythingthat was more than that
Thinking.
That's how I, if I were toreally simplify and sum it up,
it would be thinking that thatis the only way to do something.

(38:45):
That's doing something whenwhat we're both doing right now
that nobody can see, is doingsomething in such a profound way
, and that is so a testament tothe feminine, to being
projectors, to being highlysensitive, to being psychic.

(39:07):
We're doing so much and, otherthan our bumps, no one can see
and there's no measurable metricof like.
Look at all the stuff I didyeah, yeah.

Ellie (39:32):
So many thoughts.
The first is I love hearingthat story with Chris.
My husband and I had a verydifferent but a moment where,
after a very hard fight in a carride home, of talking through
it, the car held the space forgrief that's been there for

(39:56):
years of watching our friendsbecome parents in a timeline
that was perfect for them butbut wasn't right for us and I in
no moment felt like this shouldhave happened already.
It felt very clear to me, buthe had his own process with that
and I also have my own griefwith just watching everyone

(40:18):
around us that was younger thanus, you know, in the human
aspects, step into this newphase of life, when I was having
to do things differently andprocess loss and process parts
of work and life and our movefrom South America to the US,

(40:39):
which takes so long to trulyfeel like in rhythm again,
individually and together.
Um, and home, you know, homewise all of the energies of that
and while there was no doubtfor me that that was the correct

(40:59):
path, it was also extremelypainful and moments and I just
remember that car ride of likewatching my husband finally
share some of his grief and mebeing able to see.
I've had that grief too, andmaybe we've shared it in nuggets
, but something about thatmoment, just let it all be out

(41:21):
there and released from theenergy of the two of us together
and the energy of his body andmy body and my.
I think I had my last periodwhile we were having that
conversation.
Um, and I don't know if you knowthis part of the story, but I'm
sitting right next to a windowand there's a yard light that

(41:43):
comes out from the edge of myhouse and this tiny little
screech owl came to visit us onenight on a Friday night.
I happened to be working atlike 8 pm because I had stuff I
had not finished yet and Sabaand Pepper were watching TV and
I'd gone outside and camerunning up like, look out your

(42:04):
window and there's this tinylittle screech owl just staring
at us through the window.
I literally could.
It's like two arm's lengthsaway on the other side of the
window.
And we came back to thecalendar after we found out they
were pregnant and looked at thepictures and that was within 24
hours of conception.

(42:25):
Um, and these like moments ofjust I.
This owl was just peering intoboth of us would look at me,
would look at him through thewindow, was not freaked out at
all.
It was the coolest thing in theworld and also quite eerie and
and so magical and just comingback to like the, the thread

(42:51):
that was there and the openingsthat were happening and the
presence that was there in waysthat I hadn't personally made
much space to connect with.
I don't know, it's added to thissense of awe of this entire
process for me, even thoughthere have been so many

(43:15):
extremely painful parts of this.
And when people ask what's yourfavorite part of pregnancy,
which people have asked, which Ifind such an interesting
question and from a very youknow, I'm not really willing to

(43:39):
bypass any of the hard.
So, from a very real place, myanswer, as I've sat with it, has
been the incredible opportunityand gift of allowing divine
creation to be happening insideof me while I am still so, so

(44:00):
human and I'm gonna miss thatpart, like I think it will
continue in its own way throughmotherhood.
But the yeah, it brings me totears.
It's this incredible sense ofawe that in every moment of the

(44:21):
suffering, of every moment ofgrief and every moment of the
suffering, of every moment ofgrief and every moment of not
feeling well, of just likefeeling ridiculous, basically
because this process is kind ofridiculous in the human aspect
of it.
That balances so beautifullywith this energy of trying which

(44:49):
I wanted before I let you likerespond to anything you want to
respond to.
I, when you were talking aboutthe trying, I was like wow, yes,
because the medicine of thebare minimum for me has been so
much around letting go of tryingto be something and someone
that I'm not hoping to getsomewhere through that.
And it's like this baby came inand was like no, we can't do

(45:10):
that, there's no energy for that.
This like you're done.
You're done.
You have not graduated, but I'mgoing to help you graduate
because it's time.
You know you've like gonethrough the ringer enough with
this that it's time to just takethe leap forward.
And that energy of trying andthe relief of the invitation to

(45:33):
stop trying so hard for me hasbeen continuously on many levels
and, as you said, somethingthat I think I even mentioned in
our in our mastermind sessions,in over responsibility with my

(45:54):
family or things that I overcaretaking, that I was working
through in the months before Iwe conceived, and that was like
this is a do not pass go thingand then boom, that atom bomb
thing where just everything isleveled.
So I'll let you kind of seewhatever you want to respond to

(46:16):
about any of those aspects.
But yeah, wow, it's alsointerwoven.
I have trouble really parsingit into compartment, a
compartmentalized conversation,but, um, it's a very profound
feeling to for me it has been tocome to acceptance of not not

(46:46):
having to try so hard andliterally not being able to try
so hard, and then to surrenderto the fact that within us, this
unseen process that is sodivine is happening.
As you said, minus the bump,nobody is, is aware right Of, of
, I mean aware, yes, but uh,really taking stock and yeah,

(47:11):
what comes up for you uh, somuch your.

Pilar (47:17):
Your answer to your favorite part about pregnancy is
so perfect.
I've been saying somethingsimilar, but not as eloquent
Like mine has been the fact thatI am growing life and the magic

(47:38):
of that.
And then getting to feel thelife and feel the spirit amidst
so much poop, like feeling,amidst never feeling worse and
never so much death, so muchrearranging, but you summed it

(48:03):
up so perfectly amidst beingmore human, more human-y, human
than anything has ever been, onall levels, from my body, what
it does, to everything happeningin my life, to what my days

(48:24):
look like, all of it.
And then this is just happening, this is just happening inside
of me, and that, when I wasreally sick, was other than the
psychic elements of what wasoccurring were very difficult

(48:48):
but, uh, really really profoundin terms of things that wanted
to clear out of me and thingsthat wanted to be transformed.
That was, that was a huge partof being sick, but in all
honesty, that was still kind ofhard work in a way, and the

(49:10):
thing that got me through waslike seeing that that week the
heart had grown, or feeling thespirit hanging out outside of me
, like checking in, or orfeeling the spirit's
collaboration with what washappening, that that was like

(49:31):
the thing that it would.
It would like we.
When we went and got anultrasound, I was like and we
heard the heartbeat.
I was like this will see methrough weeks of feeling
horrible the sound.
Yeah, I don't know what else torespond to.

(49:52):
You said so many amazing things.
Can you like cue me up with aspecific thing?

Ellie (49:56):
Yeah, trying More.
Any other thoughts on trying?
You spoke to it a lot already,but yeah, let's see For.

Pilar (50:07):
Okay, for for me, because we're having very cool parallel
experiences.
And then there's some awesomedifferences.
Yeah, for me, uh, there'salways.
I've been working with this fora long time, but now the

(50:27):
process has been immenselyexpedited.
But and this is really commonin almost everyone I work with
and it's it's very it it takeson a very specific flavor for
women and that's how we havebeen modeled through, whether
that was actually modeled to usin our lives or we just

(50:52):
inherited the modeling of how werelate to and run our energy
around doing.
And then for a lot of women,where I'll see it as it comes up
in work and it's comedicbecause everyone I work with,
the majority of people, are inthe healing arts or do something

(51:12):
very niche and esoteric, but itdoesn't matter, it still shows
up.
This way we start to run ourenergy when it's time to do, and
I had that very strongly and itformed it.
It was interesting how itentangled with different parts

(51:35):
of my personality and my, myidentity that are natural, but
it's like when something mixesup like that, it's like what's
me and what's that, and theyseem to have created a whole new
being and now I don't know whatcomes from what.
And so I had been working onthis for a while, leading up to

(51:58):
becoming pregnant, and I wasmoving at very much a snail's
pace and because I had theenergy to still do in a much
more, in a much bigger way thanI can now, it was easy to work
on it a little bit, but stillnot not intensely overload

(52:23):
myself.
But it's like it's like oh, I,I'm just going to have a candy
bar Cause it's there, you knowwhat I mean?
Like I have a job, there's likea whole cabinet of candy bars
and they're just, it's like that.
It's like the cabinet of candybars was full so I could just
take one and eat one, cause itwas right there.
And that, uh, that energy wecould call it like a trying

(52:47):
energy.
But the way it would if I wereto really really simplify,
running my energy like that tookall the fun and richness and
beauty out of anything I wasdoing, even if that thing was
rich and fun and beautiful,anything I was doing, even if

(53:09):
that thing was rich and fun andbeautiful.
And as I was, as we were leadingup to becoming pregnant, I was
having a really deep go of itwith time, with linear time, and

(53:31):
I it was a I was having a very,very Saturnian period and this
this actually really wove inwith with conceiving, because I
remember I was like conceivingcannot be a thing I'm doing on
my to-do list.
It cannot like this and thatdon't belong together.
But I was.
I was just coming in to deepercontact with the nature of

(53:55):
linear time and ourcollaboration with it and how me
running my energy like thatTime would go, like this it
would just drain, a day would goby and it would feel like two
minutes and the day was gone andI had been watching this,

(54:16):
noticing it, and being like thiscannot, I cannot live my life
like this.
And it doesn't matter that Ilove everything in my life.
That's not enough.
I have to be so much morediligent about the energy I'm

(54:36):
running when I come into my life, because it can go so fast and
that is not what I want, andthis was like a year so fast and
I, that is not what I want.
And this was like a year, acouple of years before, and I
remember thinking I I don't wantto become pregnant and become a
mom and miss my life.

(54:58):
Yeah, because there's more todo and sports and like car rides
and and you know all the things, and it can just become more to
do, more to, more to track, andI was like I cannot.
It's like what better way to becompletely obliterated by the

(55:20):
need for presence than buildinga life and birthing a life and
then meeting that life andstewarding it?
And I felt that coming and so,okay, all this to say I was
working on these shifts in myenergy, I was starting to

(55:40):
experience them, I was makingsome nice progress.
Then I got pregnant and it'slike you said, it's like the
atom bomb or the.
This is the.
You said it so well.
You were like your daughter waslike okay, you've, you've made

(56:02):
some nice progress and now we'regonna, we're gonna take it home
, we're gonna like bring thishome.
It was like that I got pregnantand it was like everything came
together into a zero point andtook it home.
Where, where now I I feel sofree, because not only is my

(56:23):
energy completely different whenI do, to a comedic point like I
, the other night I wrote anemail at like 9pm, naked on the
couch with the TV on.
That was like a big no no forold Pilar, like old Pilar.
It was like we don't work atthis hour and like we don't, the
TV can't be on.
There was like all these, allthese like things of like what

(56:45):
we can do, what we can't do.
And Chris just looked at me andhe was like welcome to
motherhood.
When I was like I just wrote anamazing email at 9 PM and he
was like yeah, that you're.
He's like this is part of it,like you're becoming so flexible
, but now it's I.
I feel free in the nothingnessbecause how can I put this into

(57:10):
words?
I have done in my work and inthe house home activities,
cleaning, laundry, everything,work, work at home, work at work
at work like all my chores, myto do.
I've done almost nothing forthree months and I have been

(57:35):
completely carried by the wingsof grace.
And one of my teachers said tome he's like well, now, he said,
you're streaming more spiritualenergy into your work than you
ever have before.
And he was like look at howmuch that does.
And then he said and this iswhat you do when you become a

(57:56):
mom and your plate gets fuller,is, he said, you do it with your
kids, you do it with your work,you learn how to exert less and
offer more spiritual energyinto everything.
And he was like and that's howeverything miraculously gets
done without you overdoing it.
And I've experienced that, I'vetasted that and it's hilarious

(58:22):
because you know this.
I've talked about this for avery long time.
Like I've talked about, like,there is a power in your being
and in your engagement with lifethat carries your work.
That can't be defined by howmany tasks you did that day or
how many emails you've writtentasks you did that day or how

(58:46):
many emails you've written andit will do a lot of the heavy
lifting for you.
And old me knew that to adegree, but this me is like the
roof has been blown off of whatthat actually means, and it's
only just the beginning and I'mno longer.
I used to look at women and gohow are they doing all this?
Women with multiple kids whorun businesses, and it didn't

(59:10):
make sense to me.
And now it makes sense to me.
Like you are rearranged andeverything is rearranged.

Ellie (59:21):
Yes, yes, yes.
Understanding that this ispreparation is something I did
not understand before, andMelina said it to me and now
many other people have said thatto me.
It's like, yeah, really, onmany levels, prepare.
You know this, this chunk oftime prepares you and and and

(59:46):
also, and, and I, and I want tofollow this beautiful arc of
transition.
I can feel coming of like veryagain, something that I find
similar to grief is like you areprepared sometimes and then you
also can never prepare, and sowe'll get to that in a second.

(01:00:07):
But I just wanted to laugharound, like as I'm listening to
him, like, yes, you have beenso instrumental in me over the
years and your teachings and themessage that you just shared,

(01:00:28):
and your teachings and themessage that you just shared
inviting in, okay, maybe I canrelax a little bit more, a
little bit more, a little bitmore, not even relax, just let
go a little bit more and letwhat actually wants to happen
here happen, which is somethingthat I am so in love with and
have such a hard, have had sucha hard time with, especially
when it comes to my relationshipwith work, and, at the same
time, it's so fascinating tohear you talk about this

(01:00:51):
requirement for presence becausein my healing with my mom
before and after her death, inthe unseen often, but in certain
moments, seeing the part of myinner child, my young parts that

(01:01:12):
were yearning for her, werejust yearning for what I call
wide open presence, like, andhow much her diagnosis just
snapped that away from us, eventhough she was physically there.
And, um, you know there aremany, many, many details where
or moments where she was present.

(01:01:34):
But there was also just thissense of that not being there.
And then to see in me all ofthe places, through this process
of oh, it's ready, you're readyto not only receive this
medicine fully but give thismedicine through being so
present and letting everythingelse not matter quite as much
and letting and trusting thespiritual energy of what is here

(01:01:58):
to do what really matters andto bring into uh, to bring into
form what really matters for you, to gift you energy where you
need it to really do theorchestration of all of the
pieces.

(01:02:18):
Wow, that has been extremelyhumbling to me and also like I
can feel the wild aspects ofbeing challenged by my own in
the same way, the places that Ican, am challenged and could be
challenged as a mother and thesame way, this is what I needed
for my mom and the you knowkarmic pieces of all of that.

(01:02:42):
But, yeah, it is such a relief.
It is such a relief.
I feel so grateful to get toexperience that.
Yes, like I care about the samethings, but I care in such a

(01:03:10):
different way and I think afterbirth I'm going to care even
differently and the ongoingexploration of that can
sometimes feel a little dauntingto me and also feels completely
magical to me and also feelscompletely magical.

Pilar (01:03:37):
Yes, yes, it, it.
Can you feel your brainchanging?
Oh, yeah, yes, it's, it's.
I keep saying this is thecraziest psychedelic I've ever
taken.
I keep saying this is thecraziest psychedelic I've ever
taken.
It's just like you said thecaring For me.
The ecosystem of my life hasbeen rearranged in a way that I

(01:03:57):
never could have done on my own,and it is so much better and
more true.
And it has made in thisparadoxical way, the appropriate

(01:04:22):
caring and things in theirappropriate place have given
them a deeper relationship totheir power.
Yeah, that they couldn't accessbefore.

Ellie (01:04:35):
Hmm, yeah, yeah to this infinite aspect of them that,
like for me, is so much of.
You know, I'm in a verydifferent stage of my business
than you are with yours and this, this invitation to feel how

(01:05:00):
infinite this work is and thatit's not going away, and I'm not
going away and we're not goingaway together.
And this child, no, is, youknow, part of that, in ways that
I don't fully understand yetand maybe I won't even when, in
the physical, but understandingthe yeah, how it, how it's all

(01:05:26):
infinitely entwined and just thedeep rest that I think is I've
been invited into in that Mm-hmm, yeah, okay, anything else you
want to say about that?
I want to transition us intogrief a little bit.
That feels perfectly complete,okay, anything else you want to
say about that?

(01:05:46):
I want to transition us intogrief a little bit that feels
perfectly complete Okay.
So your mom died when you weretwo, and do I remember correctly
that she found out that she hada brain tumor when you were in
her womb?

Pilar (01:06:04):
The day I was born, the day you were born, yeah, so I
was an emergency cesarean onemonth early.
I could have been earlier thana month.
It's hard, because thatexperience was so traumatic for
everyone that I can tell.

(01:06:25):
When family members are tellingme, you can feel that they're
no one's remembering entirelywell exactly what happened.
So I could have been a monthand a half early, which used to
not really mean that much to me.
Have been a month and a halfearly, which used to not really

(01:06:47):
mean that much to me.
And now that I'm pregnant, I'mlike so I was going to be a
monster baby, because I was anormal sized baby.
I was not small.

Ellie (01:06:58):
My neighbor says, that she just cooks them fast.

Pilar (01:07:01):
Yeah, I wasn't.
I was normal size, I was normalheight, normal weight, but uh,
it was.
So my, my mom had either aseizure or a stroke.
I think it was seizures.

(01:07:22):
I think it was seizures and upto that point her and my dad had
, to my knowledge, no awareness.
Anything was wrong.
And she loved being pregnant.
Everyone.
I totally took on some likefantasy pictures.
I was like I'm gonna, it'sgonna be amazing, I'm gonna feel
so good because everyone saidthat's how she was.

(01:07:44):
So I was like that's how I'mgoing to be.
But anyway, she loved beingpregnant and she had what I
think was a seizure.
They rushed her to the hospitaland this part is interesting
because I almost feel like whathappened is either they knew

(01:08:07):
something was really wrong butdidn't know what, or they knew,
they had a pretty good idea thatit was brain tumors or brain
tumor and didn't want to freakher and my dad out because it
went pilar.
That I just was telling.
My aunt was just telling methere was a big meeting with the

(01:08:29):
OBs and the doctors and I thinkprobably brain surgeons, of can
we take the baby out.
It was like a Grey's Anatomyepisode, like they had a meeting
of can we take her out?
It was decided, yes, they tookme out and, according to my dad,
they took me out and, accordingto my dad, they took me out and
within minutes, doctors filledthe room and my dad knew

(01:08:55):
something was horribly wrong.
But and again, being pregnant,I'm like you just continue to
understand your parents For thefor the rest of our lives, we'll
be making sense of our parents.
But I am very I am, I think,almost the exact age of my dad.

(01:09:24):
When this was happening, my momwas two years older and I'm
also now pregnant like she was,and I'm just it's blowing my
mind what they experienced.
It is like it isincomprehensible.
I'm wrapping my head around it,but what they went through

(01:09:44):
would destroy almost everyone Iknow, so they.
I think she might have had brainsurgery the same day.
She had a C-section, I think,because it was.
I was just talking to my uncleabout this and he said because
there's something happening inmy family right now that's

(01:10:06):
extremely similar that happenedto my mom, which has been its
own big thing happening whileI'm pregnant.
And I was talking to my uncle,my mom's brother, and he said
what's happening with our otherfamily members?
I had asked him I said is thiswhat happened to my mom?
Is this the same tumors my momhad?
And he said yes, this isexactly like your mom.

(01:10:27):
And he said the only differenceis they've had more time to
make decisions, whereas withyour mom it was so bad they just
immediately went into whateverthey had to do.
So I think she might've hadbrain surgery not soon after
having a cesarean Wow, had brainsurgery not soon after having a

(01:10:51):
cesarean Wow, and then she wasgiven not long to live Like I
think it was maybe six monthsmax and and she had um there
it's called geoblastoma, it'swhen the tumor has progressed
and spread to stage four.
And so she lived for two years.

(01:11:13):
And this is crazy, because I'munderstanding this now in a way
that I didn't before and I'msure once I have a child I'll be
understanding it in a whole newway again.
But something I've felt anduncovered is everybody loved me
so much, but nobody was sayinghello to me.

(01:11:37):
Everybody was so wrapped up inwhat was happening Because it's
like I came into the world andmy dad's wife Is dying, my
uncle's sister Is dying, mygrandparents daughter Is dying.
Everybody is now experiencingthis From the moment I enter,

(01:12:00):
but my mom Was with me, she wasthe one With me and that was
like.
That was like she knew she wasgoing to die and and I can't I
can't imagine what that does toyour consciousness and it was

(01:12:23):
like the person who knowsthey're going to die is actually
the person that can give themost presence, because everyone
said she was just accepting, shefought and she did live longer,
but there was an acceptancethat kind of freaked everybody
out.
But the gift she gave me wasbeing my mom and being with me

(01:12:48):
when nobody else could in thatway yeah, we get the wide, open
presence.

Ellie (01:12:56):
Yes, wow, you've already spoken to us a lot, but what I
was gonna ask you or is how is?
I don't know if carrying is theright word, but how is carrying
the story, or relationship tothe story, or feeling the the

(01:13:20):
still potentially alive psychicexploration of this story?
What's that been like for you?

Pilar (01:13:30):
it.
It so, as I was, as I wasleading up to being pregnant, I
was getting whiffs ofunderstanding in deeper ways
than I had previouslyexperienced, because it's like
this is so hard to put intowords, I really think, unless

(01:13:51):
you've experienced it.
But if, when you're notpregnant, your life is about you
, you're living your lifethrough your eyes, from your
perspective.
And for me and Chris, the daywe found out it was bizarre.
We were like watching ModernFamily as Claire and Phil, we

(01:14:16):
were watching commercials as theparents, and Chris was like, is
this happening to you?
And I was like, yes, it it allof a sudden.
We would just be watching ourfunny shows and we'd be all of a
sudden we're, we're empathizingwith the parents just so
quickly in that consciousness,and so I had been getting these

(01:14:40):
whiffs through.
A lot of it was through.
Uh, our old neighbors have twokids that were really good
friends with and I'm reallyclose with the daughter and
she's nine now, but she wouldour relationship and just
watching her would invoke thingsin in my experience that helped

(01:15:03):
me make sense of me and my momand my childhood and my life and
all these different things.
So I was getting these kind oflike whiffs.
And then I became pregnant andI was, oh God, like there's the

(01:15:24):
healing you do as the person whowent through it and just
feeling like I am so in awe ofmy parents, like what they went

(01:15:59):
through, everyone, what they allwent through, the magnitude my
dad, my mom, like I, just theybecame the magnitude of their
souls and what we all set uptogether and how chaotically and

(01:16:24):
horribly perfect it was, becameso much more clear.
And this is weird, but I sortof tapped into like not anywhere

(01:16:44):
near I know what sheexperienced, but how my mom was
able to just accept I, I, I andyeah, it's been, it's been wild,
like every day was kind of likea new layer opened.
And then the first, there's beenthese cataclysmic events, my
whole pregnancy, which I am notblind to, the fact that this

(01:17:09):
spirit, it has like a veryvolcanic energy and is pulling
strings and threads to getthings, help, help things along
that that are in deep service tonot just me but my family,
everyone.
And one of the things thathappened is I have a dear, dear

(01:17:33):
family member who, like I said,she has a geoblastoma.
A geoblastoma and we found out.
I found out the week I wasgoing to tell them all I was

(01:17:55):
pregnant, and so then it waslike, okay, this is what's
happening now and I want tocreate space for this because
this is big and this isimpacting all of us and it's
happening on my mom's side ofthe family, and so I'm creating
space for what's happening andto support and to be there and
to just you know all the psychicwork of like we're going to

(01:18:18):
support.
Midway through my process, Ialmost feel myself to a very
similar energy that I was borninto and it's all the same
people, some of the same people,and I was getting it from

(01:19:03):
everyone's perspective.
It was like now I have anunderstanding of what all the
adults were going throughbecause I'm a baby.
Everyone else is adults, otherthan some of my cousins, grown
people with fully developedbrains, finding out either their
daughter, their wife or theirsister, their sister-in-law is
now dying and has a baby, likethat's.

(01:19:24):
That's a crazy thing to gothrough, but then I also,
simultaneously, was becomingaware of it.
How I would describe it is forme there's always been different
energies in my space that Iknow they're not mine, but I

(01:19:44):
don't know what they are, andthey've been with me for so long
and I know if they're meant toleave one day they will.
But it almost has kind of feltlike I was born and I was handed
like six backpacks and it waslike here, carry these until it
comes time that you don't carrythem anymore, but you have them
and they're heavy and you'regoing to be walking around with

(01:20:05):
them for a very long time, andso it was like a backpack of
like boulders that filled myspace.
I became aware of this is theenergy I was born into.
That's always been swirlingaround me, and this happening in
my family gave me a chance tostart seeing and clearing

(01:20:28):
something from my field that Ijust thought was there forever,
for a very, very long time.
And if I were to describe it,it was like I came in.
I left the womb and I came intolike a different womb of shock
and fear and confusion and griefand anger and and just total

(01:20:54):
chaos.
Like the atom bomb dropped theday I came in.
So it was like I entered in theatom bomb.

Ellie (01:21:02):
Yeah, it's like hard to separate the two of you.
Yeah, yeah, it's like hard toseparate the two of you.
Yeah, yes, and and this process.

Pilar (01:21:15):
I just never thought I'd know there, I couldn't have ever
conceived of this that whileI'm pregnant I would get this
opportunity to see and start torelease some of these energies
that were just a backpack I hadjust been handed and I felt the
baby, like the spirit, like youcan let go of this now.

Ellie (01:21:41):
Yeah, this isn't you.
Yeah, Wow, yeah, this isn't you.
Yeah, well, I was listening toyou.
Well, I don't, this is whatcame up.
I don't know that you would andyou can tell me uh, really,
that backpack carrying to theword responsibility.

(01:22:12):
But something that came up forme is this experience that I've
had, which I assume is my ownversion of an experience that I
think a lot of people have, butwe all have it so differently
that there's almost a lonelinessin it.
That's been what my sense hasbeen, which has been the sense
of feeling this exit ofresponsibilities that cannot be

(01:22:38):
there anymore or are not ours tocarry, or were never our
backpacks to holds, that arebeing cleansed and released.
Finally, and then, with time,feeling the energy and
responsibility of motherhood,but in a very because
responsibility is somethingyou've also worked on with you

(01:23:01):
and throughout your work a lot,and I remember years ago, when
you were teaching about it andsomeone, I heard someone say
their responsibility, ability torespond, and I was like, wait,
what?
How did I never think aboutthis this clearly before?
But now, thinking about thisability to respond to the energy
of motherhood and feeling thatdescend into my body and like

(01:23:25):
into my life and start to touchme and and start to prepare the
space for what's to come.
The first few moments that Ifelt that I was just in tears
all weekend I moments that Ifelt that I was just in tears

(01:23:52):
all weekend I yearned for totalk about it with my mom and
and like yearn for the personthat felt that for me when I was
growing inside of her and feltso much compassion and curiosity
and understanding and healingin the sense of whoa.
She felt this for me, like herversion of this for me, even

(01:24:17):
though I don't didn'tnecessarily know how to receive
it as a kid.
It was there, or her version ofit didn't look the way that you
know.
I perfectly received it, but Ihave zero doubt that she had her
own experience of that andthere's been a lot of moments of
Sigh.
Yeah, just wanting to be ableto talk to her about it, I mean

(01:24:51):
to be able to ask her what thatwas like.
When I think of your mom, justlike whoa, I want to know this
person how did you do this?
How did you move through that?
How did you know to?
These aren't questions thatwill have answers, obviously,
but just these questions thatlive on in the heart of how were

(01:25:15):
you able to gift that wide,open presence to Pilar that you
did, I don't know.
Just all these beautiful kindof curiosities come up and
there's grief in the not everknowing and also beauty in the
not knowing.

Pilar (01:25:36):
That exists, I think but I was just many is that they
live those answers through usand we might not even know that

(01:26:08):
the answer, we're living theanswer, or we might get a sense
we are, but they hear thequestions and they find a way to
breathe the answer into us.

Ellie (01:26:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that feels right.
Anything you want to say aboutthe energy of motherhood, as
you're beginning to explore itmore and more, what that's been
like for you.

Pilar (01:26:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, I really resonate withwhat you said about feeling how

(01:27:06):
my body, nervous system or wegot this, we are rearranging to
do this and in that vein this isan odd thing to share, but it's
what's coming in I have hadthis very strong kind of splenic
instinct of really not it.

(01:27:31):
It's.
I'm not being avoidant ofinformation, I just am being.
I don't want to read 80,000books, I don't want to read
every article on everything thatcould happen.
I don't want to know everyarticle on everything that could
happen.
I don't want to know theinfinite vortex of experiences.

(01:27:52):
I already know them psychically, and everyone's different.
I've had a few friends who aremothers, who are like oh, I have
this PDF of all the best booksand I'm happy to receive that
from them and I'm like, happy toreceive that from them.
But I've, I have felt, you know, and I think part of this is

(01:28:12):
the age we live in knowing thethe all the way from primal,

(01:28:34):
physical to like soul levelintelligence, that we were born
to do this and there is straight, there is live, living
libraries of wisdom pouringthrough our cells and I haven't
I haven't wanted to shroud thosein too much information.
I've, I'm reading some stuffI'm happy to to.

(01:28:55):
It's like you know, the stuffthat comes in, you're like, oh,
that's right, I'm supposed toread that.
I'm still having thoseexperiences, but there's a whole
book I'm reading.
That's just happening throughmy body, my consciousness and my
communication with the childand with Chris, and the
collaboration of all of us thatI, pilar, would be missing if I

(01:29:21):
was oversaturating myself ininformation.
I'm also like like you, I'm I'mso sensitive so I can get like
really full of things you know,like on Instagram.
I'm like I I just looked atthree people and now I, I need
to like take a bath because Iand and so that that has been
really cool and it, that hasbeen really cool and it feels

(01:29:49):
just oddly very right and I'mnot blind to also feeling like
the spirit of the baby is likeyep, yep, like I'm teaching you
right now and that's part ofthis and I want you to hear what

(01:30:12):
I'm and then the awareness thatI have been being prepared for
this, this parenthood, but alsothis to parent this specific
soul, probably for lifetimes, inone way or another, and that's
all available yeah, yeah, it isreally wild to feel the

(01:30:39):
humanness of the preparationhappening for me personally,
like in the emotional realmsespecially, and the levels of
maturity that I've been able tostep into through that alchemy
in my life over the past sevenyears of now being able to
interact and lead and guide andbe present from the me that I am

(01:31:02):
now, but then to think about itin the vastness of eons of
energy, of knowing this beingand this being knowing me.

Ellie (01:31:11):
I had this incredible glimpse of an image about a year
ago.
It was really my arrival tofeeling quote unquote ready,
which I never expected to feelready and I, uh, also just felt

(01:31:32):
so, not ready.
Um and so, and this inner I hadthis inner battle for a long
time that I worked with a longterm mentor of mine, um around,
because she was like there, yourmotherhood is here, where are
you in relationship to it?
And I was like work I have tochoose work or motherhood, work

(01:31:55):
or motherhood.
And this um, constant feelinglike I had to make a choice,
like where's my energy going togo?
If I have the energy that Ihave, I don't have it for both
places which has now fully been,is being reworked and it's on
many levels.
But I had this image at onepoint in that exploration that

(01:32:19):
just calmed all of that.
That was if I saw myself at thecenter of my life and all of
these parts of my life and justlet this baby arrive like where
did it?
Or let a child arrive, wherewould it arrive?
And it just showed up in my lapand so clearly knew everything

(01:32:39):
about my life, so clearly knewwhat I was here for, what I was
doing, what was happening in mymarriage, what was happening in
my other family was just, youknow, in my lap, a part of it.

Pilar (01:33:05):
And that image was the beginning of like this exhale
from that tension that I feltfor so long.
That's just beautiful.
It's so beautiful that you gotto transform that before it
arrives and that you got to openyour perception, your
perception widened to see.
It is in collaboration witheverything I had for years in my

(01:33:30):
20s so many different wisewomen.
You know, when, like, there's amessage you're supposed to get
and people just randomly give itto you for years and you didn't
ask for it One of the ones I'vebeen getting, honestly, since I
was little and Nona would lookat me and go, pilar, babies
aren't bad.
She'd always say that.
She'd say babies aren't bad,babies are a blessing.

(01:33:52):
And Nona lived that Like it wasnot.
She lived that my mom's mom andthen also basically raised my

(01:34:13):
one of my cousins and then meand we were her fifth and sixth
children.
And when, when my mom waspregnant, uh, when my cousin was
, was when, when his mom waspregnant with him, um, both
situations were were interestingcircumstances Mine, because of
what I shared, his was differentand she dropped everything to

(01:34:34):
support the babies and so she'dalways say babies aren't bad,
babies aren't bad.
And then different women as Igot older and once I had the
business it became.
There's this one woman who Ilove and every time I met with
her she'd say she'd be like, areyou pregnant yet?

(01:34:55):
And I'd say no, and she'd belike you know, the baby will
enhance your work.
Like she said, babies bringabundance.
They bring their own set oftools and abundance and ideas
and visions.
And she'd always say it's notgoing to take away from, it's

(01:35:16):
going to enhance your work.
And she's saying that to me allthrough my 20s.
So I kept getting thesemessages of like, similar to
what you learned.
It's like people were trying toget that through to me of, yes,
you'll change, yes, your energywill rearrange, but it will
come and it will know whatyou're up to and it will enhance

(01:35:38):
it.
And and I for I, I know thereis not a sliver of doubt in my
mind now around that.
It is so obvious to me, noteven being a mom yet, just being
pregnant, it is so obvious tome that that is true.

(01:36:00):
Yeah.

Ellie (01:36:05):
Yeah, and I think in every layer that we're humbled
in the process of the letting go.
It's like, oh yeah, this ispart of it and it's knowing that
offers so much in that rapidrelease and rapid welcoming in.
I just want to make a commentabout social media.

(01:36:28):
It's so funny, I am so bored bywhat's out there, like I look
at that from a pregnant placeand I am like this is so flat.
Yes, there is this and I'dstill play with social media

(01:36:54):
because there's no one's worldreally enjoy it.
But it's the awareness of howflat it is is like never before
and is only growing.

Pilar (01:37:07):
Yes, ok, yes, like never before, and is only growing.
Yes, okay, yes.
So I was feeling this rightbefore I got.
I was like, the three monthsbefore I was, I was like I'm so
bored with all of this, all ofthis, as in even parts of my

(01:37:32):
work, and I kept saying boredand Chris was like pick a
different word, it's not bored,it's something different.
And so the thing I came up withwas the frequency of
disenchantment.
I was disenchanted and Irecognized before I was pregnant
, this is a natural part ofevolution.

(01:37:52):
I'm seeing this differently.
Clearly there's an evolutionafoot, there's nothing to do,
but things are changing.
Then I became pregnant and ithilarious because, like before,
I was like there's going to bethis rebirth and I'm going to be
passionate again and I'll beenchanted again.

(01:38:13):
And I became pregnant and thefrequency of disenchantment went
up like a thousand.
Like a thousand hits where Iwas like now I just really don't
care, just really don't care,and the way I've been relating

(01:38:40):
to it.
This is actually such a greatthing to talk about because if I
didn't have a relationship tohormones and just took
everything that was happening asthis is what it is now, I would
have closed down everything Ido.
I would have literally shutdown everything.
I would have gotten off socialmedia.
I would have done very extremethings.

(01:39:03):
And I was working on this withone of my teachers and there was
two really profound things thatcame up.
The first was the level ofknowing I had before felt big
compared to now.
I feel very, I like I don'tknow about my work, it's just a

(01:39:30):
big, I don't know.
And he was like I can so relateto that, yeah.
And he was like, well, look atyour knowing before and how much
of that energy was yours.
And I was like, oh, some of myknowing before wasn't even mine,
it was other people's, it wasother energies creating a
stronger sense of knowing thanwhat I actually had.

(01:39:51):
And then I also looked at lookat how normal it is to go
through something like pregnancyand feel your knowing get
really, really, really small andhow that's completely natural.
And he even said you're in abetter place now because you're

(01:40:13):
starting with what's true, whichis, like I know, 5% rest I
don't know.
And so there there was thatpiece.
And then there was the piece ofand this one has been more
difficult for me, recognizingthat the level of passion and

(01:40:35):
creativity I felt from my workbefore is just not there now.
And that doesn't mean I I meanI shouldn't say it's not there
across the board, because theone thing that's held true is,
when I work with people, I'm on,I feel it, I feel the projector
magic, I feel the baby, allexcited whenever we're working

(01:40:56):
with someone and that's thereand that's alive, and it's where
all the life force is.
But in terms of me creatingthings which is funny because
it's like, well, I am creatingsomething- Yep, your creation
energy is redirected.
Yes, in terms of that whichsocial media is us creating

(01:41:18):
things to share and so anythingin that arena, I've just felt
like a nothing, and what I'vebeen, I guess I want to say,
grappling with, but then alsokind of successfully doing, is
still doing what I committed todo, still showing up for what my

(01:41:40):
commitments are, with a lesseramount of passion and a lesser
amount of external creativeenergy like pulsing, and then
just letting that be okay andseeing that everybody's totally
fine with it.
Yeah, like it's.
It's not a huge deal.
But but to what you said in thebeginning, yes, I, social media

(01:42:05):
feels like a flat, like flatpapers, and it's very bizarre.

Ellie (01:42:16):
Yeah, and the people that I'm enjoying the most are
surprising to watch or to likeobserve in the flat paperness
are really surprising me.
You know who.
One of them is Ishany frankel,who I didn't.
Well, I love her.
She was never, oh not surprised, but I was never a housewives

(01:42:37):
person.
I didn't even know really whoshe was until not that long ago.
And yet I my sister asked melike what do you get out of this
?
Like engaging with her stuff.
I said I just so appreciatethat.
She just is who she is and justdoes what she wants to do, and
so much of my medicine in thisprocess has been embracing that

(01:43:00):
about myself.
And, of course, the person, oneof the people that I'm most
enjoying engaging with issomebody that you know in her
50s, is just living.

Pilar (01:43:09):
That I I love her, she, you should.
You should go on youtube andjust watch clips of her from
when she was a housewife.
She, she was.
I loved her on the show.
She, she, she was one of thebest ones.
She would just say it like itis.
She'd have the funniestcommentaries.
She, it, it was, yeah, it wasgreat.

(01:43:33):
She, she's, she's a.
I think she's a scorpio sun,capricorn moon.
She's very to to the point.

Ellie (01:43:41):
Yes, yep, and not only to the point, but just doesn't
give any Fs, and there's so muchof my version of that medicine
that's coming online of megetting to experience that.
But it's really fun to watchsomebody else and it's like that

(01:44:04):
.
In that there's a spark ofsomething for me.
But I'm just looking at thenormal aspects.
Yes, flat papers passing by.
It's really, really, reallyinteresting and I'm really
excited for you.
I'm really excited to watchwhat happens in the next.

(01:44:25):
How many weeks pregnant are youright now?
Like today is 19, 19, okay, I'mreally excited to watch what
happens to you around this.
I don't know, because I have hadthis reflection in the past few
days.
I was like wow, I really didn'tknow for a long time and I

(01:44:46):
found so much acceptance andpeace in that.
I don't know.
And all of a sudden my work islike circling back, hardcore as
I'm entering, like my last, ofcourse, stint Right and it's
hilarious, and the depth and allof the beautiful parts of all

(01:45:25):
of the pulling off, the piecesof the trying and the carrying
and all of the things.
It's starting to circle back,question and release the grief
label of my work at thebeginning and at the same time
knew there's no way.
Grief is never going to be partof my work, right?
And so the invitation of theunknown, of the I don't know

(01:45:46):
around that was just like okay,welcome in the other things, but
don't get rid of the thingsthat are here.
And now I'm finding thismassive circling back around
where, oh yeah, it all isstarting and ending here and
then it's going to have a newiteration on the other side of
birth.
But it's so wild to see and I'mreally curious to see what will

(01:46:08):
happen to you as you're attunedto that, because that's very,
very, very recent.
Like I'm 30, going to be 32weeks on Friday and only in the
past two to three weeks have Ifelt that happen.
And it's as the slowdown ishappening in a different on my

(01:46:32):
body level, and then I'mallowing that to happen on
another level, because secondtrimester has its own kind of
energy that starts to take form,and only in the slowdown is
that starting to happen.
So I'm really curious to checkback in and see what that's like
for you.

Pilar (01:46:50):
Wow, what you're describing right now is
something a lot of women havetold me about that.
I have to be very careful notto be like is it coming?

Ellie (01:47:12):
Sure sure I can imagine.

Pilar (01:47:16):
But beyond, where I create rigidity around things.
It's very apparent to me and Ithink this is so.
It's very apparent to me and Ithink this is so, oh God, I feel

(01:47:36):
like this makes the work somuch more real when you have to
just sit there for however longand be like what are you?
Who are you?
What am I doing?
What am I here to steward Like?
What is like cause?
My prayer has been like what islife asking of me?
What, what can I offer?
That life is truly asking of meright now?
What is it?
Because I'll, whatever that is,even if it's it's the simplest,

(01:47:57):
subtlest thing.
That is where I will put myenergy, and it has it's been.
Just just keep showing up foryour commitments, keep working
with people one-on-one and andjust just do it.
Just that's where, that's whereyou have the skillset, that's
what you can offer to life.
But in terms of like the largerwork as a whole, you just

(01:48:19):
described it so beautifullybecause I could see my work
asking for this long before Iwas pregnant, and would I have
ever given it to it in the way Iam now if I hadn't become
pregnant?
And now I'm just, I'm sittingat it and it's like, whatever

(01:48:44):
you want to be, I'm here and Ican feel you know you can, you
can kind of track cycles.
There was a huge death, a hugeletting go, and now it's
definitely in the quiet.
The wave has receded.
It has not yet come back.
Yep, there's nothing to rush orforce, but I, I couldn't be the

(01:49:06):
pressure force if you tried.
Yep, and then, in that space too, getting to see what the
spiritual I was pregnant.
Like 40 to 50 moms follow me onInstagram and I'm like what is

(01:49:36):
going on?
Like I was like did, where didthey all come from?
It did?
It's not like my pregnancy postwas shared by tons of people.
You shared it and my friendAmaruka shared it, and that
doesn't necessarily equate to 50moms appearing, but they just

(01:49:56):
all appear.
And I'm like now, when peoplefollow me, I normally don't
click on who's following me.
I'm clicking on it because I'mlike are you pregnant or a mom?
I just had you know.
Meg Meg Thompson, yeah, shejoined Innovate and in her
reason inside the forum, she'slike reason number one Pilar is

(01:50:17):
pregnant.
I'm just like I'm not, this isjust happening, this is just
happening.

Ellie (01:50:26):
That's so cool.
Yeah, I know something good ishappening and I want to be a
part of it.
Wow, that's so cool.
Well, how do you feel abouttalking about your dad?

Pilar (01:50:37):
Good yeah, yeah.

Ellie (01:50:40):
I would like to with me yesterday via email that not
only have you been walkingthrough this tremendous process
on its own, but that your dadalso passed away very recently.
Grief and life and death andlife, and all of it so

(01:51:01):
intertwined Like I can feel thevastness of it, as I said to you
, and the words to say tell meabout this are not even here,
because whoa and then you sharedwhen we came back, when we
started today is how differentof a process it's been than

(01:51:23):
anyone can conceptualize and howweird it seems from the outside
, and yet, I would assume, howcorrect it has been for you to
live it this way.
So what would you like to share?

Pilar (01:51:37):
Uh, yeah because my dad has been.

(01:51:59):
I've never known a physicallyhealthy version of him, but the
last 10 plus years, probably asolid decade, he was sick and
getting worse and and the thegetting worse was something.
Every time I saw him I wouldnotice something, something

(01:52:21):
worse.
And oh, this is the firstpodcast, not even the first
podcast, this is the first timein my work that he's ever been
brought up and I feel him justchair pulled up, legs crossed,

(01:52:45):
so present, like, so tuned in tome and my life and my work, and
so here, in a way that he, Iknow, wanted to be but could not
when he was alive.
So, yeah, his I, like I toldyou before and I think you know,

(01:53:15):
with knowing you, knowingMelina, when Melina's mom was
was getting worse while she waspregnant, mom was was getting
worse while she was pregnant, Iremember creating space for her

(01:53:36):
and in that space not in, notfrom projection, but from that
space, feeling this thread of Ithink this is going to happen to
me too.
There's something here and andbut, but not.
It's like her, her and hermom's relationship was so wildly
different than mine and mydad's.

(01:53:57):
You know there's everyexperience is so different, but
there was that like supportingMelina and witnessing Melina is
offering me a point of resourcefor something I think I will
walk through my own version of.
And that was when it reallystarted to click for me that
this was probably going tohappen either while I was

(01:54:20):
pregnant or not soon aftergiving birth.
I even was like it could happenthe day I give birth, because
in my family the way peoplechoose to leave it's like it's
like Kara's always like yourfamily is crazy the way people
come in and leave and the datesand how it all happens.
But so I had a feeling.

(01:54:44):
I had a feeling my dad wasgoing to die.
I had a feeling.

(01:55:16):
I had a feeling my dad wasgoing to die and, like I told
you, he died the day I was goingto tell him I was pregnant
because I knew it would be sohard for him to know that and
there was even this part of methat was like it could kill him
if I told him.
And when I found out he haddied and I shared this with you
before, but I'll say it again, Ihad, yes, I was shocked, yes, I

(01:55:41):
was sad, but never before haveI felt such an ecstatic release
from the physical and I felt himhere, finally, looking around.
You're pregnant, look at yourlife, look at your marriage,

(01:56:06):
look at who you are.
I felt him just in awe andgetting to have every experience
that he couldn't but wanted toso badly, and getting to have it
free of shame and free of fear,and I felt I felt him like
instantly meet the baby.
The baby was like laughing atme, like you think I don't know

(01:56:27):
your dad, like just this, andyou know, yes, it's intense to
have something like that happenwhile being pregnant, but it
happened while I was pregnant.
For a reason.

(01:56:53):
I have grieved my dad and ourrelationship a thousand times in
the last 10 years and evenbefore that, I think I started
grieving my dad young, and soit's still surreal and it's
still momentous and there isstill grief.
It's still surreal and it'sstill momentous and there is
still grief.
But my, the deaths I'veexperienced prior to this um,

(01:57:15):
that I was cognizant of is partof what you're grieving is the
loss of the physicalrelationship you're grieving.
I can't talk to you like I usedto, I can't pick up the phone,
I can't see you like I used to,and that is exactly what I've

(01:57:35):
spent the last 10 years grievingaround my dad is like you're, I
miss who you were when I was akid.
I miss our relationship, I missyou being present.
I like I, I miss all that andyou can't give that anymore.
And so when he died, it was like.

(01:57:55):
It was just like freedom, likerelief, freedom, like ecstatic I
felt.
I felt an aspect of my mom justwaiting for him.
Oh yeah, and that was the firstthing I said to Chris and Kara.
I was like he's finally with mymom again and like the dad I

(01:58:25):
knew.
I only knew him without her andso I only knew him missing the
love of his life and I just hedied exactly 30 years after her,

(01:58:46):
exactly 30 years after her.
So it was like this it was like30 years without her and then
finally with her again, in a way, died and it's like everything

(01:59:13):
pulled back and it was just yourmom, your dad and you again and
the baby and like that's whatwas?
That's what was there, what wasthere?

(01:59:33):
And and even in like reallyweird logistical ways, like I
didn't ask for this, but hisashes are going to me and I knew
instantly I'm taking them to mymom's grave, like and and that
will be the baby's first tripwow is me, chris and the baby
will go to my mom's grave andspread his ashes.

(01:59:58):
Yeah, I'm so it's.
I've been working on it with myteachers and I was I was with
one of my teachers and she Isaid now it's like I've been
making my way towards thisawareness and now that he's gone

(02:00:19):
, it's, it's sealing of.
There was so much to processand transform while my dad was
alive, so much and then in hisdeath, of course, there's been
new waves and my dad gaveabsolutely everything he had to

(02:00:46):
me.
He gave absolutely everythinghe had and, regardless of
there's could be infiniteperceptions around that and
there is in our family there'slots of perceptions, but I just
felt so clearly that was hisabsolute best and that is good

(02:01:11):
wow, I'm receiving some yousaying that, thank you you're
welcome yeah, I just need asecond to see what wants to come
now.

Ellie (02:01:34):
Did you know that Melina had that same thing with me?
Where?
No, yeah.
So the summer after my mom diedour relationship started to
deepen.
We were already good friendsbut we were like, once a month
we'd have really long phoneconversations and the very

(02:02:00):
beginning of them I would justbe laying in the park under a
tree like I don't know what islife, what is happening, like I
was in the it was maybe threemonths after she died just like
so much was stripping, had beenstripped away and just in the,
in the pullback of the wave of,you so beautifully explained it

(02:02:21):
and I would just be in the parklaying there and just talking
about it and she'd listen andthen just say I don't know why,
but I know I'm going to need yousomeday and I this was a couple
of years before her mom wasdiagnosed the first time and I
was like I hate that and alsoyeah, and I will be here, and

(02:02:49):
also feeling that I trust youand what you're saying, like if
you feel that I don't, I'm notgoing to talk you out of, I'm
not going to talk you out ofthat, but that's really powerful
to hear you then like pullingthat, and I think it's such a

(02:03:12):
gift to just let it be recordedand to whomever the like one of
these things you would neverwish on anyone.
And at the same time, it's likeif you need to receive this
somehow, this is the best way todo it and this is a pure just
offering.
That is not even intended, buthere it is and it's really

(02:03:37):
special to have heard you sharethat here and to like, just like
, let the lineage of whateverthat is continue with whomever,
whether we know them or not canI add something to what I share
that feels really important forother people to hear?

Pilar (02:03:56):
that, I know, is not an not an isolated experience.
I I think we we are in someways born with the fear that our
parents will die and obviouslyeveryone has wildly different

(02:04:19):
relationships to their parentsand I spent a lot of my

(02:04:52):
childhood absorbed in this.
There was this existentialaloneness I was afraid of and I
used to cry myself to sleep andI used to go when my Nona's gone
and my dad is gone, I will becompletely alone and I will not
be okay and it was like a terrorI felt.
And I've been talking to peopleand everyone has kind of
reflected to me that I've talkedto.
They have their own version ofwho will I be when my parents
are gone, what will happen to me.
And I've even talked to peoplewho said I used to cry myself to
sleep, thinking about when myparents would die or when my mom
or my dad, whoever they werereally close with.

(02:05:13):
And it's also funny because I asa child, everything I liked
media-wise was about orphans.
So like Matilda, annie andAnastasia were like my three
favorite movies and I wasalready very much identified
with the orphan archetype, likevery, very young and anyway,

(02:05:40):
obviously, when I was little wasa very long time ago ago, and
so when, when my Nona died in2022, that was its own and her,
her death.
She was 90.
She died on my 30th birthday.
It was.
We couldn't have planned itbetter, her and I.

(02:06:02):
It was, it was, it was and shewas so complete, her life was so
full.
And when she died, I was likemy aunt and uncle called me and
I wasn't expecting this and theyreflected to me what I knew and

(02:06:28):
they said she let go becauseshe finally trusted you were
okay without her.
And I remember feeling that andfeeling that little girl who
was terrified of being alone isgone.
And she understands that and Iunderstand that.
And when my dad died, there wasthis like okay, it's happened.

(02:06:54):
The thing little, you was mostterrified of your, your three
main people are gone your, yourmom, your dad and your Nona and
my groggy too, that everyone'sgone.
And a part of me looked for that, that terror of aloneness.
Like, okay, here it comes.
And and like it was like 5% ofme tried to backslide into like

(02:07:18):
is it?
Is it going to come?
Am I going to feel that way andI have never felt more
surrounded and together withpeople than I have now.
I have never felt less alone,and it's not just that I have

(02:07:38):
community, it's also theancestors.
It's something I've beenworking on with my teachers,
where we work on, like you know.
This is a deep energy in yoursystem you can start to let go
of, and it was to get toexperience I feel like you

(02:07:59):
understand this so deeply to getto meet yourself on the other
side of your deepest, deepestfear that kept you up at night.
To get to meet that version ofyou and recognize you're not
just okay, you are more alivethan you've ever been.

(02:08:22):
It's like you said you wouldn'twish the death of a parent on
anyone, and when you walkthrough initiations like this,
you also you wish the what comeson anyone who wants it.
You know what I mean.
Like it's it's the one time Iheard this woman say

(02:08:43):
congratulations for your pain,say congratulations for your
pain, yeah, and it's beenhorrible but perfect to, to, to
meet this version of me whilepregnant, to feel my child, like

(02:09:04):
we got this, like you are notalone.

Ellie (02:09:09):
It that is so old yeah yeah yeah, one thing that I
lived with consciously that Ididn't understand for decades
was and I think I had and you,because your mom wasn't

(02:09:34):
physically there anymore butthere's like this gift and also
this also really strange aspectI don't even know what to call
it of the awareness of death soearly on, where it's
unconsciously always there, likeI.
I agree with you that there'sthis awareness that they could

(02:09:56):
go in any moment.
But then to have this moment ofa diagnosis where my hyper
vigilance to okay, this couldhappen at any moment now like
this is this is not only just aethereal possibility, this is on
a platter of possibility infront of us, and then to live
with that and so much of thatfor me activated.

(02:10:18):
There's so many intertwinedpieces of it that it's not even
the right moment to go into thembecause they would take a long
time.
But the moment that my mom diedand in the subsequent months,

(02:10:40):
my experience of I thought I wasgoing to die too if she died
and I didn't realize that wasgoing to die too if she died and
I didn't realize that.
I didn't realize that so muchof my protection, my desire to
protect and keep her alive andcontrol all of that destiny,

(02:11:02):
which is uncontrollable, is alsothe deep fear that was in me
that I would no longer be aswell.
And yet I am, and I'm not right, and I am so much more alive
than ever before and at the sametime, the that was a huge

(02:11:28):
process for me, I guess is thebest way to say it.
It was wait, I didn't die.
So now what?
Like what happens now?
Yes, there's the grieving ofher and our relationship and all
of these things that didn'tdidn't get to happen, that you
know, I continue to live inthose atom bomb waves that come.
But then this like kind ofdumbfoundedness in my system of

(02:11:56):
like, wait, you're alive, waitwhat?
And how beautiful to hear yoube in a place where not only the
presence of your child, butalso to be in a place with
yourself where you get to befeeling that already and to be
swimming in that and exploringit.

(02:12:17):
And I guess that's what thetransformed by grief journey is,
you know, is the willingness tosee that and the willingness to
live the pain at the same timeand the yes to all of it, the
yes I am still alive and there'sso much here for me, there's so

(02:12:39):
much inside of me and there'sso much that once unfolds
through me and at the same time,I am not going to push away or
back down from any of theripples that cause me pain in
the process, which will probablylast the rest of.

Pilar (02:13:04):
To live that in a time and a world where that's not
necessarily offered to you andyou have to be willing it exists
but it's not widely offered andto be to say like I'm going to

(02:13:28):
take my machete and I'm going tocarve this space around me and
I'm going to be in this processand I'm going to let everyone
sit outside of it and have theirown responses and reactions to
it, but I I'm I'm gifting thisto myself.

Ellie (02:13:50):
Yeah, yeah.
And to end, maybe, just I lovewell, soft ending because there
might be more, but just thegratitude I have of every time
we get to share themulti-dimensionality of this

(02:14:12):
experience and let it defy theunderstanding of loss and grief
and also the willingness toconstantly let that change and
to know that in one month andfive months and five years, if
I'm in a different place aroundthat, that's okay.

(02:14:33):
But right now I get to live inthe relief and the pain.
I get to live in the ecstasyand the pain.
I remember hours, less than anhour, my mom died at our
childhood home with my dad andmy sister and myself and me, and
there was actually a nursethere too, and it was so, so

(02:14:58):
funny actually she I don't thinkI've ever gotten to tell you
some of these details, but thenurse came because we needed to
move her, like rotate her bodyto keep bed sores from forming,
and it was so hard.
It was so hard emotionally, itwas so hard physically, like we
didn't know what we were doing,we had gone through, it was the

(02:15:19):
middle of a pandemic, and so weended up being the person giving
the morphine and the lorazepamand all of this stuff.
And I was to a point where likewe should not be doing this,
there should be somebody elsethat knows what they're doing
doing this.
And so we had had this reallyhorrible night.
Two nights passed and I was justlike that's it, we're calling

(02:15:40):
for help.
And so we called and we're likewe need someone to come shift
her because we are afraid it'sso painful, there's so many
layers of it to think about,like moving your person and in
that state, and the nurse cameand I don't even remember if she
shifted her or not.

(02:16:01):
She called us into the otherroom to have a conversation
about where things were at andbasically told us like we
getting close and then literallywe're sitting in the other room
because she didn't want to talkabout it in front of my mom.
And she moved us into the otherroom and all of a sudden goes
I'm going to go check on Joanne.
This is maybe like 20 minuteslater and comes in and calls us

(02:16:25):
in and says she's really closeto taking her last breath.
And we were literally onlythere for her last like three
breaths.
And I was like, of course, mom,you, in your lack of not wanting
to be vulnerable and weak infront of anybody else.
You waited, first of all toknow that there's somebody else
to take care of us and to bewith us in this process, but

(02:16:47):
also I kept feeling that she'sgoing to die in the middle of
the night because, yeah, I waslike she doesn't want us to be
watching her, like she wants uswith her, but she doesn't want
us watching her.
And my sister had the samesense and we both, you know, it
was just so wild.
Anyways, why did I start sayingall of that?

(02:17:07):
Oh, a couple hours later, Ineeded to go pick up my dad's
dog, who was being boarded, sothat we could bring her home to
smell her before they came toattend to my mom's body, and it
was maybe a 15 minute drive andI was rocking out to music in
the car and one of my bestfriends called me and I was like

(02:17:29):
I don't know, I'm just, it'slike such a relief and there's
all this stuff.
And for weeks I had this energyand of I'm not relieved that my
mom isn't here, but I amrelieved that the suffering is
no longer and the weight of theblanket that that was over our
life and over my life and thatexisted for so long that didn't

(02:17:52):
allow what we all wanted.
It's like thank god, thank godthat that is gone and with time
there's other processes to livewith it.
But in that period you said Idon't know if you said this
right now or you said it earlier, but you said it grieved him in

(02:18:16):
anticipation for so long.
And when the physical body isso burdened and the fight has
been so long, that's somethingwe it's so complex and we don't
get to see or talk about it, anda lot of people don't die when
their kids are in their 30s, andso it's also like a different

(02:18:38):
experience to live it later onin your life.
But yeah, I don't even know howto conclude what I want to say.
There's just this deepimportance of being able to
share about it and to be able toinvite in the full spectrum of
the experience, and only in thatfull spectrum do we get to tap

(02:19:00):
into the heart of what's reallyhappening.

Pilar (02:19:04):
Yes, I love that story.

(02:19:25):
I can sense her personality asJoanne, the way she left yeah,
she didn't want that.
She didn't want to.
All of you there for a wholething.
Yeah, about this is funnybecause you're so you've, you're

(02:19:50):
so separate from all of this.
It's like not in your space atall, um, but the way it it,
especially being pregnant theway we're so conditioned to be
obsessed with life and soavoidant of death when they're

(02:20:13):
actually it's so funny, evenlike the way your mom, when you
described it, finally releasedand the ecstasy I imagine when
you give birth and there'sthere's a release of it is here.
Now it is out of me.
There's an ecstasy of, of like,and it's here just like.

(02:20:37):
There's an ecstasy of whensomeone lets go and and we're
the the mass overlay of death isit's just horrible, it's just
horribleness, that's like.
The main thing I see is it's,it's, it's both.

(02:20:58):
It's, it's horrible and it itkicks up for most people what
they think they would experienceor what they have, and it's
often one of those two.
It's what I have or what Ithink I would if this were

(02:21:19):
happening to me, when, exactlylike you said, if you don't take
that on and you're just there.
It's, it's everything,Everything is within it, and

(02:21:39):
it's it's I think of.
Have you read Martine Prechtel?
The Smell of Rain on Dust?

Ellie (02:21:45):
No.

Pilar (02:21:46):
Oh my gosh, it's like my favorite book on grief.
It's, it's I think it.
The subtext is like on griefand praise and it's.
He lived with an indigenous inhow they related to death and
grief, experience that therethere was grief and ecstasy, and

(02:22:36):
grief and praise, and like lossand celebration became one in
the same.
For the, for the tribe and the,the main thing they did that
was like one of my hugetakeaways is the moment of death
.
They all, they all stoppedtheir lives together and just
created space for the, the wholeexperience, and they didn't go

(02:22:56):
back to their lives until therewas a point of completion for
everyone.
Wow, which we can't do in thesame way, but we can in our own
way.
Yeah, like you can be in thecar going to pick up the dog,
blasting music, just so alive inthe process.

Ellie (02:23:22):
Yeah, three things came to mind and then I'll let you
say anything you want to say toend, but one is here we are
circling back to wide, openpresence and the gift that we
have both received in our ownways and lived very differently

(02:23:42):
of having enough pulled away andbeing willing enough to release
over and over and over again,to make space for that presence
when it's time.
And I feel like we, we and manypeople we know, and just this

(02:24:06):
generation of sensitive people,intuitives like this chance
transformational workers I don'tknow what to call us or beings
it's just like opening thatpossibility in the collective,
because the preparation, that is, the preparation that allows

(02:24:27):
you to live, and not everybodygets that and it's not needed to
be able to live the moment,like that atom bomb will offer
you what you need if you arewilling.
You know whether you areprepared or not.
And yet, similar to that momentwith my mom, and then similar to
pregnancy, looking back and belike, oh, everything's been

(02:24:51):
leading to here, and then now,knowing that like, yeah, I, and
now I'm totally different than Iwas four and a half years ago
when that moment happened withmy mom, but here I am again in
that process, with her beingprepared into motherhood and
everything's leading to here,and then knowing that that kind
of string is going to be,there's going to be another tack

(02:25:11):
on the map where that string isgoing to be extended over time.
But so much of it has come downto, for me, the reflection of
the willingness to be withwhat's there and then allow the
clearing, the cleansing, theletting go whatever the word is

(02:25:32):
that resonates and is true foryou, and sometimes it feels
pretty violent and fucking sucks, but you know it's not fun.
But there's so much there andso much um, such a deep gift in
that, and I was just thinkingabout that while you were

(02:25:55):
talking.
And then the last thing I wantedto say was I love that you
married that moment of thatecstasy, of like releasing back
to birth, because recently I'vebeen thinking a lot about how,
having lived, walked somebody tothat death portal and knowing
that death portal so intimateI've actually done that with
multiple people.
Now, as I'm starting to thinkabout the physical, psychic,

(02:26:33):
mental, emotional aspects ofpreparing for birth and I have
like, oh, this is circling in myenergy field, is this awareness
of the marriage that I've hadof life and death right here
together in the circle, and howwilling am I and how trusting am
I to walk up to that threshold?
Again, I don't have a choice.
I'm going no matter what, buthow open can I be in approaching

(02:26:57):
that without the fear of beingswept away by it?

Pilar (02:27:07):
Just like that.

Ellie (02:27:09):
Yeah it, and of course many parts of me will be swept
away by it.
But that my body, that myaliveness, that my vitality is
not going to be.
It's pretty wild to walk intothat moment with that awareness.

(02:27:32):
It's something I think I'llprobably be talking about for a
long time and yet haven'texperienced yet.
So I don't have anything elseto say on it yet.
But anything come up for youthat you want to share on that.

Pilar (02:27:45):
Or to conclude with it's just beautiful, it's I, I it's

(02:28:08):
just like you.
I have no idea because Ihaven't experienced it, but my
sense is just like you.
The intimacy I've had withdeath has most likely been some
of the best preparation.
And everyone I know a lot ofwomen who they're like birth

(02:28:34):
death workers.
So they're at a lot of birthsand they're at a lot of deaths
and the resounding thing theyall say is they are not that
different.
Yep, yeah, they're, they're.

(02:28:54):
They're oddly and eerilysimilar.
Yeah, and I'm so glad Iincarnated as a woman in this
lifetime.
I just I know I've been a manbefore, I know I've been a woman
before, but I, it's so cool.

Ellie (02:29:23):
Yeah, it really is, yeah when I have friends.
When I asked her yeah, itreally is, yeah, when I have
friends.
When I asked her if she wantedto guess the sex of the baby
before I told her she goes, it'sa girl.
Because you are so overflowingwith feminine energy that can't

(02:29:46):
not be shared into another humanand I was like, wow, I've never
thought about them hit that way, but I felt so touched, as
somebody that doesn'tnecessarily speak in those terms
very often, but I was like, wow, yeah, I wouldn't have it any
other way for now and there willbe other ways.

(02:30:08):
There will be other ways lateron, but that was pretty cool.
Yeah, thank you for being here.
Let's take a second to check inif there's anything that feels
incomplete or needs more space.

Pilar (02:30:33):
I feel great, me too.
Yeah, I feel like a beautifulripeness.

Ellie (02:30:44):
I love that, thank you, I love that.
Thank you, I love you.
This is really special and Ifeel like there We'll get to
journey back and reconnect onthese things for years to come.
And what a gift.
I love you too, thank you forlistening to transformed by

(02:31:19):
grief.
Please take a moment to rate,review and subscribe to the show
and to share it with a lovedone that needs this medicine
today.
If you are ready to deepen intoyour own transformed by grief
process, you can join thesanctuary membership or work
with me one-on-one at eliflocom.
See you soon.

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