July 29, 2025 • 24 mins
We explore the revived Baltimore Red Line light rail project with Jerome Horne, Deputy Communications Director, who explains how this 14-mile east-west corridor will transform transportation across the city while potentially healing historical urban scars.
• The Red Line project dates back to 2002 planning but was canceled in 2015 just before construction began
• Governor Wes Moore resurrected the project in 2023, recognizing its vital importance to Baltimore's transportation network
• Three route alternatives are under consideration, balancing tunneled sections versus surface routes
• The project will connect with existing light rail, metro subway, and regional rail systems
• The Red Line could help rectify harm done by the "Highway to Nowhere" that displaced Black communities
• Expected $19 billion economic impact through construction jobs, operations positions, and transit-oriented development
• Community engagement focuses on preventing displacement while encouraging appropriate density
• Jerome shares his personal journey from music education to transit advocacy, starting with an email to a transit CEO at age 10
Learn more about the Baltimore Red Line at redlinemaryland.com or follow @RedLineMaryland on social media.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Doors are closing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Public transit, that's my way to roll On the
metro.
I'm taking control Fullthrottle.
Stopped train tracks it's mydaily grind, Daily grind.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Public transit, it's the rhythm of my life, oh yeah,
this week on Transit Tangents,we discuss the proposed
Baltimore Red Line light railwith Jerome, the Deputy
Communications Director for theproject.
This project has had a rockyhistory but is back on track
with the hopes to finally bringEast-West light rail to
Baltimore.
Let's jump into ourconversation with Jerome.
Hey everybody, and welcome tothis episode of Transit Tangents
(00:36):
.
My name is Lewis, I'm Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And I'm Jerome.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And, yes, we're very happy to be joined by Jerome
today, who is part of theBaltimore Red Line Project.
This is part of our kind ofNortheast Corridor trip.
We've been in Boston, we'vebeen in Philadelphia and now we
are here in Baltimore.
I've only been to Baltimoreonce in like eighth grade for
half a day, so I'm not evengoing to really count that, but
we're very excited to be here.
Jerome was happy to help puttogether a little happy hour
(01:03):
event for us last night, so wegot to chat with a lot of local
folks who are both transitadvocates as well as folks
working at the agency.
So, first off, thank you somuch for taking the time to be
with us.
We're very excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, delighted to meet you all and share a little
bit about what's happening inBaltimore.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah.
So I guess, to kick us off, canyou just give us the overview
of what is the Baltimore RedLine Project?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
The Baltimore Red Line Project is a revived
east-west light rail so it'llspan 14 miles across the city
and Baltimore County, kind ofstretching in the west in
Baltimore County from Woodlawnarea, coming into the city
through US Route 40, throughdowntown Central Business
District and then ultimatelyending east at Johns Hopkins
(01:47):
Bayview Hospital, and thisreally fills in a critical
east-west gap.
We have buses that run in thatcorridor today that are among
our highest ridership routes andthis was always intended to,
you know, for higher capacity,premium transit, and so this
will really help fill that need,allow us to move more people
more efficiently and really fillin some of the critical giving
(02:10):
people critical access toopportunity in parts of West
Baltimore and some of our jobcenters that are located
elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I think the key word there was it's a revised or
revived plan.
Can you give us a little bit ofthe history of the Red Line and
what you mean by revived plan?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, so this project has a history.
The modern incarnation goesback to 2002 with the Baltimore
Regional Rail Plan.
This was a plan that was putout identifying existing and
potential rail corridors,looking at a combination of
light rail and potential heavyrail investment, and in that
(02:46):
plan there was an east-west linethat was given the color red
and that's where the color comesfrom.
And really, though, this goesback all the way to the
streetcar era.
If you look at, our laststreetcar line in Baltimore to
run was the Route 8, whichactually went from West
Baltimore and then went northinto Towson, one of our
satellite cities, and it wasamong the highest ridership
lines.
And then after that, in the1960s, planners in Baltimore
(03:08):
began to plan a sort of modernGreat Society metro system
similar to what we see in DC,atlanta and the Bay Area.
You know that planning happened,but unfortunately the system
did not come to fruition, but itwas always intended to have an
east-west line.
We did build one line, a 15-mileheavy rail metro, and so the
(03:28):
2002 plan once again kind ofstudied some corridors, and if
you look at the 1960s metro planand the 2002 rail plan, you'll
see a lot of similarities.
And so the 2002 plan comes out,and one of the priority
recommendations from that planis this east-west corridor,
which became the red line.
So this project moved forwardthrough the process of working
(03:51):
with our federal partners, theFederal Transit Administration,
securing local funding, and then, ultimately, we did win federal
funding and the project waspretty much ready to start
construction in 2015.
Unfortunately, previousgovernor administration decided
to cancel the project, and so,you know, many people thought
maybe the project was dead, butthe dream of the Red Line was
(04:13):
never really dead.
That need was always there.
So in 2023, now, governorWestmore of Maryland decided to
resurrect the project, and sothat brings us to where we are
today, with the revivedEast-West Red Line light rail.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Oftentimes, like things like this can be
frustrating because you know ifit did end up in 2015,.
You know everything movesforward.
We very well could be likealmost ready to this trip could
be.
We're coming to ride the RedLine almost at this point, so,
um, but very good news to see itcoming back.
Um, right now you all are inthe phase where you're sort of
trying to decide exactly wherethis thing will run, so there's
(04:53):
three different proposedalternatives.
Um, I can you kind of walk usthrough the the stage that
you're in now and kind of theprocesses that you're going
through in terms of how tochoose exactly which alignment
this route will take?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, so you're absolutely right.
We're in the what we call thealternative analysis phase.
Of our three differentalternatives, so alternative one
closely mimics the 2015 project.
It includes two tunnels onesort of mile long tunnel with no
stations, on the western edgeof Baltimore City and then a
sort of four mile tunnel underdowntown with five underground
stations and a direct connectionto our existing metro.
(05:29):
And then the two otheralternatives, alternative 2A and
2B, are fully surface and whilethey all follow the same
general corridor, you know thereare some differences.
Obviously, the the tunnelingpart is risky and the most
expensive and would take themost time, but it does offer the
most reliable and fastestservice.
However, the surfacealternatives add some advantages
(05:52):
as well.
One difference between 2015 andnow is the city of Baltimore
adopted a complete streets lawwhich allows us to prioritize
pedestrians, cyclists, transiton the surface level and kind of
reimagine our streets as placesthat are really hospitable to
humans.
So those two surfacealternatives it does offer the
(06:13):
ability to potentially reimaginesome of our streets,
particularly in downtown andother parts of the city, to make
them human friendly and reallyhuman centered.
There's a lot of factors Cost isone, time to construct is
another.
The two surface alternativescould be built faster and
cheaper.
And there is this idea ofsometimes the transit being on
(06:35):
the surface.
It's visible.
That is one aspect of riding.
We've all ridden systems indifferent cities.
I think of the Chicago L.
It is different when you cansee what you're going by versus
when you're underground.
So you know, the surfacealternatives do give us the
opportunity to add in maybe afew more stations that we
(06:56):
wouldn't have on the underground, just due to the expense.
And so you know there'strade-offs about speed,
reliability, but also accesscould be increased.
And so, yeah, really it'slooking at the factors of cost,
time to build access, and thenjust the reality of our
financial reality.
We are going to do our best tocontinue working with our
(07:18):
partners on the federal level,but also locally at the city,
county and state.
We're going to need to come upwith our share of the money to
finance the project as well.
Right, we're going to need tocome up with our share of the
money to finance the project aswell.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right, and for the context too, for folks not as
familiar with Baltimore.
You mentioned that this wouldhave a transfer station with the
existing metro.
So presently you all have onekind of metro subway line, and
then there is also a light railhere as well.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So this, would this intersect with the light rail as
well?
I guess, and yes, so yeah, allthree alternatives that we're
studying would directlyintersect with our existing 30
mile north south light rail.
They would also intersect withour commuter rail service or
regional rail service, the themark train.
At west baltimore mark there isthe potential of building a
proposed east baltimore markstation.
Well, that this line wouldterminate on the east end and
then, depending on thealternative, you know there are
(08:13):
varying degrees of connectivityto the existing metro line
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I'm curious.
So you're in this planningphase, was this?
Is this sort of the second timethis has been fully planned out
?
When this before this projectwas revived and when it was
cancelled, had we already gonethrough all of this planning
before?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.
So we went through a lot ofplanning right previously, and
the good news is we didn't haveto start immediately all the way
back from ground zero, so wehave been able to use a lot of
the good work that was done inthe past.
And so you know, we're doing asupplemental environmental
impact statement, which means weget to take the good bits and
the things that really haven'tchanged from 10 years ago.
(08:50):
Reuse that, but we do have tofactor in some things that have
changed.
There are parts of the corridorwhere the right of way, the
path that we thought we weregoing to take, no longer is an
option, so we're having to lookat different alternatives there,
and so that does trigger morereview and more study that we
need to do this time around.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
That was even my question is what significant
challenges have sort of come upsince that previous period where
we thought we were movingforward to this project to today
.
But that's a good one if theright of ways have changed.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, so the right of way in certain locations is
definitely a challenge.
Obviously, you know this is notunique to Baltimore.
But the cost to build theseprojects right, there are many
factors.
I encourage people to look atthe transit cost project to
learn more about the detailsthere.
But yeah, we, you know that'sdefinitely a factor that we're
going to have to consider andyou know getting really creative
(09:39):
about the financing.
So the other challenge you knowthe city is dynamic and the
city is changing.
We actually gained populationfor the first time last year in
a long time and I think, withthis complete streets law and a
city DOT and folks that areinterested in how we transform
the surface realm to be morehuman, friendly, that does
(10:01):
present you know other other,you know positive things that we
could use this project to helpimplement.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, the cost is such a big one too.
Other positive things that wecould use this project to help
implement.
Yeah, the cost is such a bigone too.
I mean, we talk about it a lotwith Project Connect in Austin.
Since COVID, I think all of thecosts were estimated to go up
by 60% across the board.
So I'm sure you're facing verysimilar issues here.
Yes, Can you just kind of giveus an overview of what the
impact is going to be toBaltimore with the Red line
(10:29):
being completed?
If you were, you know, fastforwarding to this line being
completely done, how do you seethat sort of transforming the
city behind us?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, you used one of my favorite words transform.
This project will be positivelytransforming for the city.
You, as I mentioned, ourexisting rail lines that we have
are sort of disconnected.
The transfers aren'tnecessarily the most seamless,
so this would go a long step inconnecting those lines and
creating more of a real systemfor Baltimore.
(11:00):
As I mentioned that east-westcorridor, there are many bus
routes today that run in thecorridor or parallel to it, some
of which are in certain casesalmost overcrowded.
So this really helps us buildthat capacity.
The other thing is that it'smore than just a transit project
.
It is a communityrevitalization tool, it is an
(11:20):
economic development driver.
We're estimating that the totalreturn on investment could be
as much as $19 billion and thatincludes, you know, not only the
temporary jobs created duringconstruction, but then there's,
you know, hundreds of full-timepermanent jobs for operations
and maintenance and beyond thatthen there's additional
transit-oriented developmentopportunities along the entire
(11:43):
14 miles that we have theability to.
The Red Line can really serveas a catalyst for that.
You know Baltimore City peakedpopulation in the 1950s around
almost a million people.
Today we're down to about565,000.
And you know we need to regrowand repopulate and certainly
investing in high qualitypremium transit like the Red
(12:05):
Line, allows us to really thinkabout upzoning, making sure that
we, you know, build the densityor allow the density to really
work in our favor.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Absolutely Something that I'm curious to get your
take on.
So recently we did an episodethat was like seven urban
highways that Chris and I thinkthat should be removed, and one
of them that actually made ourlist was here in Baltimore.
The like Frank FranklinMulberry is a Frank.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I'm getting it right, franklin.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Mulberry, it's for those of you haven't seen that
episode.
We'll make sure there's a linkfor you to check it out.
But some of the alignments thatyou all are proposing with the
red line would actually utilizesome of the space, which made me
happy here.
I didn't notice that before wewere chatting earlier today.
Can you talk about?
You know how this could utilizethat corridor and the benefits
that it could have in that partof town?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah and so yeah.
For those who are unfamiliar,the Highway to Nowhere 1.4 mile
stretch of sunken highway thatwas originally intended to
connect Interstate 70 to 95 andgoing across, you know, all of
Baltimore, including ourbeautiful Inner Harbor.
They would have ran the highwayright, you know, on the
waterfront.
I'm glad they did not do that.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
But unfortunately the section that did get built,
majority black, thrivingneighborhood in West Baltimore.
My great grandmother wasactually displaced for the
construction of this highway, soI have a personal connection.
We are approaching this withgreat sensitivity.
We are talking aboutneighborhoods that have had many
promises made in the past andpromises not kept.
(13:30):
There's been a lot ofdisinvestment, there is some
mistrust of government agencies,and so you know, we want to be
real about that and be sensitiveto how we engage with that
community and we've been doing alot of targeted and specialized
outreach in West Baltimore.
So this highway, you know,because it has put such a scar
and really a gash in the city,really disconnecting those
(13:51):
communities, the Red Line hasthe opportunity to help, in part
, begin to rectify some of thatharm by one, putting in, you
know, access to opportunity inother parts of the city and
utilizing parts of that corridorto help, you know, make that
space more usable.
So today there's a median thatwas always intended actually for
(14:14):
the east-west line of theBaltimore Metro, and so one of
our alternatives would use thatmedian in the middle of the
highway.
We're also looking atalternatives that were run on
the surface level on Franklinand Mulberry, and so there's
different trade-offs right, Onone hand, on the surface level,
we don't have to have verticalcirculation with elevators and
stairs.
On the other hand, we have tocross a lot more intersections
which could potentially slowdown the service.
(14:35):
So if we go in that median, youknow we don't have to deal with
the cross streets to run, youknow, faster, more reliable
service.
We're also, you know, workingin coordination with Baltimore
City DOT.
We did, we hope, win aReconnecting Communities grant
where we're beginning to look athow we might treat that highway
, whether it's filling in,capping over parts of it, and
(14:58):
certainly we're going to beworking with them to coordinate
our plans and make sure that thered line can seamlessly
integrate into that.
But we still have a long way togo in terms of fully rectifying
that harm, if we ever reallycan.
But we're glad that steps arebeginning to work on that issue.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, and that also brings up a good point too.
You know you are trying toreconnect these communities,
sort of rectify, as you said,rectify the harm that's happened
in the past.
Are there any early stage plansfor preventing further
displacement?
If you build this in the areaand then property values may go
up or you see new developmentsgo up, do you know of any
current plans now to helpprevent that future displacement
(15:39):
that could happen as well?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, certainly that's something that's top of
mind for us.
We've seen that happen in ourclose neighbor down the road in
DC and in many other cities whenthese type of investments come
in.
We're still a little early inour planning process but
certainly it is something that'sfront of mind that we want to
make sure that we as the transitagency, whatever role we can
play, partnering with the city,with the DOT Department of
(16:02):
Housing, department of Planning,to really think about even the
state.
You know what options are there.
Luckily, you know we have a lotof lessons learned that we can
look to from around the country,of programs.
I know in Austin right, thereis sort of anti-displacement
funding that came with thereferendum.
So there are a lot of differentthings that certainly we're
going to be looking into becausewe know that that's that is
(16:23):
going to be a potentialpotential issue that we want to
tackle.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, good to hear that.
No, and yeah, there is such alike.
So many cities are doing areally good job with that now
and it's it's balancing a mix oflike making sure that folks who
are in the area and want tostay there can make sure they
get to stay there, while alsoutilizing, you know, space that
might be, you know, uh, notbeing used today or as a giant
surface parking lot or somethinglike that, to, uh, more housing
(16:48):
, more affordable housing inareas where folks could walk to
this potential new transitsolution.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And I'll add that the agency, the Maryland Transit
Administration and the MarylandDepartment of Transportation we
do have a serious commitment toreally thinking about TOD in
maybe a way that we weren't inthe past.
A big part of that willdefinitely be an affordable
housing component, particularlythe West Baltimore station.
There's a lot of opportunitywith surface parking lots to
(17:14):
reimagine that and we'll beginthat work with the community to
really kind of work hand in handto make sure we know what they
want and need and try to tailorit best to meet those community
needs while still allowing thepeople to live in the
neighborhood that are theretoday and bring in some new
residents as well, for sure,awesome.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
The last thing I was going to say is your position
with MTA being sort ofcommunications director for
Redline.
It sounds like an awesome jobthat you get to really connect
with people across the city inall these communities.
Can you just speak to some ofthe highlights of that position
and things that you really enjoyabout being this communications
(17:54):
director?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, and I'm a deputy director of
communications and engagement.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Sorry, sorry, deputy director.
No, no, all good, all good.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
No, no, no, it's all good, it's all good, but future
director but yeah, no, it isawesome and I love this stuff.
Right, I am deeply.
I'm a big transit nerd.
I'm so passionate.
I don't own a car, I livedowntown, so in Baltimore I rode
my bike to the interview andyou know Baltimore, it's my
hometown, so I'm deeply investedin this.
(18:20):
I actually remember the 2002rail plan.
I was 14 years old back then.
I'm now 37.
And so it is an honor to be ableto come back to my hometown and
work on such a significant,transformative project.
It is an honor to be able to goaround the community and meet
people from all walks of life.
I think what I love about thisproject is it truly touches
(18:40):
every sort of socio-economicdemographic of the city and all
of our key entertainment,business areas, hospitals,
universities, everything inbetween.
This line really is a goodproject that connects so much,
and so I really take it as apersonal mission and a charge to
do right by the public, and Ilove talking to people, learning
(19:03):
their stories, hearing theirconcerns, and we take that
information back and synthesizeit and work with our teams to
figure out how are we designingand implementing a project in a
way that honors the people thatlive here, while also thinking
about the future and the futureBaltimore, because we always
like to say we're not.
This project will take a littlewhile, but we're building it
(19:25):
for future generations, evengenerations that aren't born yet
.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Oh, that's awesome.
The last thing that I want tobring up we got a little bit of
your story last night, the happyhour that you planned.
Thank you again for that.
But in your story you talkedabout how you got into working
with public transit, and itwasn't what you went to school
for, it was just something youwere really passionate about.
Can you give a plug to peopleif they're passionate about
(19:49):
public transit but they're notnecessarily formally trained?
What can they do to be moreinvolved and get into this, this
world?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
They can start their own podcast.
Yeah, so I've had a reallyinteresting career.
I've been in transit almost 10years, but I actually went to
school for music educationbecause I thought I wanted to be
a high school band director andthen run like a big 10, you
know, college marching band.
But I've always been interestedin cities and trains since I
was a little kid.
In fact, when I was 10 yearsold.
I sent my first email to theCEO of the Maryland Transit
(20:20):
Administration at that time,asking him how can I get your
job when I grow up?
So yeah, at age 10, I was likeI want to be a transit CEO.
Did he respond?
He did respond.
You know he responded, and thesummary is he said hey, Jerome,
even at the age of 10, it's nottoo early to begin thinking
about a career in transit.
You're going to want to learnabout finance and operations and
all the things that makesystems work, but the biggest
takeaway I got at the end ofthat email he said the most
(20:42):
important thing, though, if youwant to be a leader, is how you
treat other people.
That's what people are going toremember you for and that's
what's going to earn yourrespect, and people will want to
follow you when they know howmuch you care about them and
their interests.
You know, I would say to folksI've been able to have a pretty
great career in transit withouthaving a background.
You know the way I got into thefield.
(21:03):
I really used a lot of mytransferable skills as a
musician.
It's both a left brain andright brain activity, and music
is a form of expression andcommunication.
There are parts of music thatcan be inherently rigid and
mathematical and very systematic.
There's also the expression andthe flowing and the
interpretation.
Those are great skills that youcan translate to many things in
(21:24):
life.
And so I really got in the doorbecause I am a decent enough
communicator and I was a nerdabout transit enough that I
started as an entry levelcommunity engagement coordinator
back in Indianapolis at Indigo.
And you know, once I got intothe field though I was a sponge
I was absorbing all theknowledge I could.
I was watching lectures onYouTube, I was reading urban
(21:46):
planning textbooks, I wasvolunteering at advocacy events.
I was reading urban planningtextbooks, I was volunteering at
advocacy events.
So I'd say for those of you whoare interested, if your
community has a local advocacygroup, get plugged in.
There are so many wonderfulYouTube channels that exist and
podcasts that are talking aboutthis subject matter where you
can just learn a lot.
There are many great books outthere that you could read, and I
(22:07):
would say, if your dream is towork in transit you know, you
never know Reach out to yourlocal transit agency, your local
city planning staff.
More often than not, there arepeople out there that'd be
willing to meet you for lunch orfor coffee and just talk to you
about their work in the fieldand maybe give you some pointers
.
The last thing I'll say is Ishamelessly just reached out to
(22:28):
people on LinkedIn, right,People that I found that were
interesting.
I would just shoot them amessage.
Sometimes they responded,Sometimes they didn't, but keep
trying because you know, younever know.
You can meet one person whocould end up changing your life
for the better, and so I've beenreally fortunate just to have
some great people in my life,some great mentors that helped
me navigate the field, and onceagain, I think it's the best
(22:50):
decision I ever made to switch.
Like I said, I love transit, Ilove cities, and for me, it's
all about this personal missionto break down barriers and bring
people together.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Awesome.
Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, absolutely, with all that.
Seriously, thank you so muchfor taking the time.
And we've been in communicationfor a while and you were like,
oh, if you're ever in Baltimore,let me know.
And so we reached out and I'mglad we did.
This has been a really greattrip so far and we're actually I
don't know what the order ofthese will be coming out, but
we're getting ready to go doBaltimore in a day using only
public transit.
It's getting a little hot out,so it'll be a long day for sure,
(23:24):
but we're very excited to checkout the system.
So thank you very much fortaking the time.
We really appreciate it.
For folks, if they want tolearn more about the Redline
project and kind of stay intouch with how things are going,
where can they find out more?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, I can find out more.
Visit our websiteredlinemarylandcom.
Or just Google search Baltimore, Redline and that'll take you
to our website.
We're also at Redline Marylandon all forms of social media.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Awesome.
If you have not liked thisvideo already, please consider
doing so.
If you have questions about theproject, I'm sure we can make
sure we send some of them alongto Jerome.
Definitely leave those in thecomments.
If you want to support the showdirectly, the best way is you
can do so via our Patreon.
You can check out the merchstore, all that sort of stuff.
If you don't mind joining us atthe very end saying enjoy the
rest of your Transit, TangentsTuesday.
(24:07):
We'll kind of wrap it up here.
So thank you all so much forwatching and enjoy the rest of
your Transit.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Tangents Tuesday.
Doors are closing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Public transit, that's my way to roll On the
metro.
I'm taking control Fullthrottle.
Stopped train tracks it's mydaily grind, Daily grind.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Public transit, it's the rhythm of my life, oh yeah,
this week on Transit Tangents,we discuss the proposed
Baltimore Red Line light railwith Jerome, the Deputy
Communications Director for theproject.
This project has had a rockyhistory but is back on track
with the hopes to finally bringEast-West light rail to
Baltimore.
Let's jump into ourconversation with Jerome.
Hey everybody, and welcome tothis episode of Transit Tangents
(00:36):
.
My name is Lewis, I'm Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And I'm Jerome.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And, yes, we're very happy to be joined by Jerome
today, who is part of theBaltimore Red Line Project.
This is part of our kind ofNortheast Corridor trip.
We've been in Boston, we'vebeen in Philadelphia and now we
are here in Baltimore.
I've only been to Baltimoreonce in like eighth grade for
half a day, so I'm not evengoing to really count that, but
we're very excited to be here.
Jerome was happy to help puttogether a little happy hour
(01:03):
event for us last night, so wegot to chat with a lot of local
folks who are both transitadvocates as well as folks
working at the agency.
So, first off, thank you somuch for taking the time to be
with us.
We're very excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, delighted to meet you all and share a little
bit about what's happening inBaltimore.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah.
So I guess, to kick us off, canyou just give us the overview
of what is the Baltimore RedLine Project?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
The Baltimore Red Line Project is a revived
east-west light rail so it'llspan 14 miles across the city
and Baltimore County, kind ofstretching in the west in
Baltimore County from Woodlawnarea, coming into the city
through US Route 40, throughdowntown Central Business
District and then ultimatelyending east at Johns Hopkins
(01:47):
Bayview Hospital, and thisreally fills in a critical
east-west gap.
We have buses that run in thatcorridor today that are among
our highest ridership routes andthis was always intended to,
you know, for higher capacity,premium transit, and so this
will really help fill that need,allow us to move more people
more efficiently and really fillin some of the critical giving
(02:10):
people critical access toopportunity in parts of West
Baltimore and some of our jobcenters that are located
elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I think the key word there was it's a revised or
revived plan.
Can you give us a little bit ofthe history of the Red Line and
what you mean by revived plan?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, so this project has a history.
The modern incarnation goesback to 2002 with the Baltimore
Regional Rail Plan.
This was a plan that was putout identifying existing and
potential rail corridors,looking at a combination of
light rail and potential heavyrail investment, and in that
(02:46):
plan there was an east-west linethat was given the color red
and that's where the color comesfrom.
And really, though, this goesback all the way to the
streetcar era.
If you look at, our laststreetcar line in Baltimore to
run was the Route 8, whichactually went from West
Baltimore and then went northinto Towson, one of our
satellite cities, and it wasamong the highest ridership
lines.
And then after that, in the1960s, planners in Baltimore
(03:08):
began to plan a sort of modernGreat Society metro system
similar to what we see in DC,atlanta and the Bay Area.
You know that planning happened,but unfortunately the system
did not come to fruition, but itwas always intended to have an
east-west line.
We did build one line, a 15-mileheavy rail metro, and so the
(03:28):
2002 plan once again kind ofstudied some corridors, and if
you look at the 1960s metro planand the 2002 rail plan, you'll
see a lot of similarities.
And so the 2002 plan comes out,and one of the priority
recommendations from that planis this east-west corridor,
which became the red line.
So this project moved forwardthrough the process of working
(03:51):
with our federal partners, theFederal Transit Administration,
securing local funding, and then, ultimately, we did win federal
funding and the project waspretty much ready to start
construction in 2015.
Unfortunately, previousgovernor administration decided
to cancel the project, and so,you know, many people thought
maybe the project was dead, butthe dream of the Red Line was
(04:13):
never really dead.
That need was always there.
So in 2023, now, governorWestmore of Maryland decided to
resurrect the project, and sothat brings us to where we are
today, with the revivedEast-West Red Line light rail.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Oftentimes, like things like this can be
frustrating because you know ifit did end up in 2015,.
You know everything movesforward.
We very well could be likealmost ready to this trip could
be.
We're coming to ride the RedLine almost at this point, so,
um, but very good news to see itcoming back.
Um, right now you all are inthe phase where you're sort of
trying to decide exactly wherethis thing will run, so there's
(04:53):
three different proposedalternatives.
Um, I can you kind of walk usthrough the the stage that
you're in now and kind of theprocesses that you're going
through in terms of how tochoose exactly which alignment
this route will take?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, so you're absolutely right.
We're in the what we call thealternative analysis phase.
Of our three differentalternatives, so alternative one
closely mimics the 2015 project.
It includes two tunnels onesort of mile long tunnel with no
stations, on the western edgeof Baltimore City and then a
sort of four mile tunnel underdowntown with five underground
stations and a direct connectionto our existing metro.
(05:29):
And then the two otheralternatives, alternative 2A and
2B, are fully surface and whilethey all follow the same
general corridor, you know thereare some differences.
Obviously, the the tunnelingpart is risky and the most
expensive and would take themost time, but it does offer the
most reliable and fastestservice.
However, the surfacealternatives add some advantages
(05:52):
as well.
One difference between 2015 andnow is the city of Baltimore
adopted a complete streets lawwhich allows us to prioritize
pedestrians, cyclists, transiton the surface level and kind of
reimagine our streets as placesthat are really hospitable to
humans.
So those two surfacealternatives it does offer the
(06:13):
ability to potentially reimaginesome of our streets,
particularly in downtown andother parts of the city, to make
them human friendly and reallyhuman centered.
There's a lot of factors Cost isone, time to construct is
another.
The two surface alternativescould be built faster and
cheaper.
And there is this idea ofsometimes the transit being on
(06:35):
the surface.
It's visible.
That is one aspect of riding.
We've all ridden systems indifferent cities.
I think of the Chicago L.
It is different when you cansee what you're going by versus
when you're underground.
So you know, the surfacealternatives do give us the
opportunity to add in maybe afew more stations that we
(06:56):
wouldn't have on the underground, just due to the expense.
And so you know there'strade-offs about speed,
reliability, but also accesscould be increased.
And so, yeah, really it'slooking at the factors of cost,
time to build access, and thenjust the reality of our
financial reality.
We are going to do our best tocontinue working with our
(07:18):
partners on the federal level,but also locally at the city,
county and state.
We're going to need to come upwith our share of the money to
finance the project as well.
Right, we're going to need tocome up with our share of the
money to finance the project aswell.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right, and for the context too, for folks not as
familiar with Baltimore.
You mentioned that this wouldhave a transfer station with the
existing metro.
So presently you all have onekind of metro subway line, and
then there is also a light railhere as well.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So this, would this intersect with the light rail as
well?
I guess, and yes, so yeah, allthree alternatives that we're
studying would directlyintersect with our existing 30
mile north south light rail.
They would also intersect withour commuter rail service or
regional rail service, the themark train.
At west baltimore mark there isthe potential of building a
proposed east baltimore markstation.
Well, that this line wouldterminate on the east end and
then, depending on thealternative, you know there are
(08:13):
varying degrees of connectivityto the existing metro line
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I'm curious.
So you're in this planningphase, was this?
Is this sort of the second timethis has been fully planned out
?
When this before this projectwas revived and when it was
cancelled, had we already gonethrough all of this planning
before?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.
So we went through a lot ofplanning right previously, and
the good news is we didn't haveto start immediately all the way
back from ground zero, so wehave been able to use a lot of
the good work that was done inthe past.
And so you know, we're doing asupplemental environmental
impact statement, which means weget to take the good bits and
the things that really haven'tchanged from 10 years ago.
(08:50):
Reuse that, but we do have tofactor in some things that have
changed.
There are parts of the corridorwhere the right of way, the
path that we thought we weregoing to take, no longer is an
option, so we're having to lookat different alternatives there,
and so that does trigger morereview and more study that we
need to do this time around.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
That was even my question is what significant
challenges have sort of come upsince that previous period where
we thought we were movingforward to this project to today
.
But that's a good one if theright of ways have changed.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, so the right of way in certain locations is
definitely a challenge.
Obviously, you know this is notunique to Baltimore.
But the cost to build theseprojects right, there are many
factors.
I encourage people to look atthe transit cost project to
learn more about the detailsthere.
But yeah, we, you know that'sdefinitely a factor that we're
going to have to consider andyou know getting really creative
(09:39):
about the financing.
So the other challenge you knowthe city is dynamic and the
city is changing.
We actually gained populationfor the first time last year in
a long time and I think, withthis complete streets law and a
city DOT and folks that areinterested in how we transform
the surface realm to be morehuman, friendly, that does
(10:01):
present you know other other,you know positive things that we
could use this project to helpimplement.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, the cost is such a big one too.
Other positive things that wecould use this project to help
implement.
Yeah, the cost is such a bigone too.
I mean, we talk about it a lotwith Project Connect in Austin.
Since COVID, I think all of thecosts were estimated to go up
by 60% across the board.
So I'm sure you're facing verysimilar issues here.
Yes, Can you just kind of giveus an overview of what the
impact is going to be toBaltimore with the Red line
(10:29):
being completed?
If you were, you know, fastforwarding to this line being
completely done, how do you seethat sort of transforming the
city behind us?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, you used one of my favorite words transform.
This project will be positivelytransforming for the city.
You, as I mentioned, ourexisting rail lines that we have
are sort of disconnected.
The transfers aren'tnecessarily the most seamless,
so this would go a long step inconnecting those lines and
creating more of a real systemfor Baltimore.
(11:00):
As I mentioned that east-westcorridor, there are many bus
routes today that run in thecorridor or parallel to it, some
of which are in certain casesalmost overcrowded.
So this really helps us buildthat capacity.
The other thing is that it'smore than just a transit project
.
It is a communityrevitalization tool, it is an
(11:20):
economic development driver.
We're estimating that the totalreturn on investment could be
as much as $19 billion and thatincludes, you know, not only the
temporary jobs created duringconstruction, but then there's,
you know, hundreds of full-timepermanent jobs for operations
and maintenance and beyond thatthen there's additional
transit-oriented developmentopportunities along the entire
(11:43):
14 miles that we have theability to.
The Red Line can really serveas a catalyst for that.
You know Baltimore City peakedpopulation in the 1950s around
almost a million people.
Today we're down to about565,000.
And you know we need to regrowand repopulate and certainly
investing in high qualitypremium transit like the Red
(12:05):
Line, allows us to really thinkabout upzoning, making sure that
we, you know, build the densityor allow the density to really
work in our favor.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Absolutely Something that I'm curious to get your
take on.
So recently we did an episodethat was like seven urban
highways that Chris and I thinkthat should be removed, and one
of them that actually made ourlist was here in Baltimore.
The like Frank FranklinMulberry is a Frank.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I'm getting it right, franklin.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Mulberry, it's for those of you haven't seen that
episode.
We'll make sure there's a linkfor you to check it out.
But some of the alignments thatyou all are proposing with the
red line would actually utilizesome of the space, which made me
happy here.
I didn't notice that before wewere chatting earlier today.
Can you talk about?
You know how this could utilizethat corridor and the benefits
that it could have in that partof town?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah and so yeah.
For those who are unfamiliar,the Highway to Nowhere 1.4 mile
stretch of sunken highway thatwas originally intended to
connect Interstate 70 to 95 andgoing across, you know, all of
Baltimore, including ourbeautiful Inner Harbor.
They would have ran the highwayright, you know, on the
waterfront.
I'm glad they did not do that.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
But unfortunately the section that did get built,
majority black, thrivingneighborhood in West Baltimore.
My great grandmother wasactually displaced for the
construction of this highway, soI have a personal connection.
We are approaching this withgreat sensitivity.
We are talking aboutneighborhoods that have had many
promises made in the past andpromises not kept.
(13:30):
There's been a lot ofdisinvestment, there is some
mistrust of government agencies,and so you know, we want to be
real about that and be sensitiveto how we engage with that
community and we've been doing alot of targeted and specialized
outreach in West Baltimore.
So this highway, you know,because it has put such a scar
and really a gash in the city,really disconnecting those
(13:51):
communities, the Red Line hasthe opportunity to help, in part
, begin to rectify some of thatharm by one, putting in, you
know, access to opportunity inother parts of the city and
utilizing parts of that corridorto help, you know, make that
space more usable.
So today there's a median thatwas always intended actually for
(14:14):
the east-west line of theBaltimore Metro, and so one of
our alternatives would use thatmedian in the middle of the
highway.
We're also looking atalternatives that were run on
the surface level on Franklinand Mulberry, and so there's
different trade-offs right, Onone hand, on the surface level,
we don't have to have verticalcirculation with elevators and
stairs.
On the other hand, we have tocross a lot more intersections
which could potentially slowdown the service.
(14:35):
So if we go in that median, youknow we don't have to deal with
the cross streets to run, youknow, faster, more reliable
service.
We're also, you know, workingin coordination with Baltimore
City DOT.
We did, we hope, win aReconnecting Communities grant
where we're beginning to look athow we might treat that highway
, whether it's filling in,capping over parts of it, and
(14:58):
certainly we're going to beworking with them to coordinate
our plans and make sure that thered line can seamlessly
integrate into that.
But we still have a long way togo in terms of fully rectifying
that harm, if we ever reallycan.
But we're glad that steps arebeginning to work on that issue.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, and that also brings up a good point too.
You know you are trying toreconnect these communities,
sort of rectify, as you said,rectify the harm that's happened
in the past.
Are there any early stage plansfor preventing further
displacement?
If you build this in the areaand then property values may go
up or you see new developmentsgo up, do you know of any
current plans now to helpprevent that future displacement
(15:39):
that could happen as well?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, certainly that's something that's top of
mind for us.
We've seen that happen in ourclose neighbor down the road in
DC and in many other cities whenthese type of investments come
in.
We're still a little early inour planning process but
certainly it is something that'sfront of mind that we want to
make sure that we as the transitagency, whatever role we can
play, partnering with the city,with the DOT Department of
(16:02):
Housing, department of Planning,to really think about even the
state.
You know what options are there.
Luckily, you know we have a lotof lessons learned that we can
look to from around the country,of programs.
I know in Austin right, thereis sort of anti-displacement
funding that came with thereferendum.
So there are a lot of differentthings that certainly we're
going to be looking into becausewe know that that's that is
(16:23):
going to be a potentialpotential issue that we want to
tackle.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, good to hear that.
No, and yeah, there is such alike.
So many cities are doing areally good job with that now
and it's it's balancing a mix oflike making sure that folks who
are in the area and want tostay there can make sure they
get to stay there, while alsoutilizing, you know, space that
might be, you know, uh, notbeing used today or as a giant
surface parking lot or somethinglike that, to, uh, more housing
(16:48):
, more affordable housing inareas where folks could walk to
this potential new transitsolution.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And I'll add that the agency, the Maryland Transit
Administration and the MarylandDepartment of Transportation we
do have a serious commitment toreally thinking about TOD in
maybe a way that we weren't inthe past.
A big part of that willdefinitely be an affordable
housing component, particularlythe West Baltimore station.
There's a lot of opportunitywith surface parking lots to
(17:14):
reimagine that and we'll beginthat work with the community to
really kind of work hand in handto make sure we know what they
want and need and try to tailorit best to meet those community
needs while still allowing thepeople to live in the
neighborhood that are theretoday and bring in some new
residents as well, for sure,awesome.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
The last thing I was going to say is your position
with MTA being sort ofcommunications director for
Redline.
It sounds like an awesome jobthat you get to really connect
with people across the city inall these communities.
Can you just speak to some ofthe highlights of that position
and things that you really enjoyabout being this communications
(17:54):
director?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, and I'm a deputy director of
communications and engagement.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Sorry, sorry, deputy director.
No, no, all good, all good.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
No, no, no, it's all good, it's all good, but future
director but yeah, no, it isawesome and I love this stuff.
Right, I am deeply.
I'm a big transit nerd.
I'm so passionate.
I don't own a car, I livedowntown, so in Baltimore I rode
my bike to the interview andyou know Baltimore, it's my
hometown, so I'm deeply investedin this.
(18:20):
I actually remember the 2002rail plan.
I was 14 years old back then.
I'm now 37.
And so it is an honor to be ableto come back to my hometown and
work on such a significant,transformative project.
It is an honor to be able to goaround the community and meet
people from all walks of life.
I think what I love about thisproject is it truly touches
(18:40):
every sort of socio-economicdemographic of the city and all
of our key entertainment,business areas, hospitals,
universities, everything inbetween.
This line really is a goodproject that connects so much,
and so I really take it as apersonal mission and a charge to
do right by the public, and Ilove talking to people, learning
(19:03):
their stories, hearing theirconcerns, and we take that
information back and synthesizeit and work with our teams to
figure out how are we designingand implementing a project in a
way that honors the people thatlive here, while also thinking
about the future and the futureBaltimore, because we always
like to say we're not.
This project will take a littlewhile, but we're building it
(19:25):
for future generations, evengenerations that aren't born yet
.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Oh, that's awesome.
The last thing that I want tobring up we got a little bit of
your story last night, the happyhour that you planned.
Thank you again for that.
But in your story you talkedabout how you got into working
with public transit, and itwasn't what you went to school
for, it was just something youwere really passionate about.
Can you give a plug to peopleif they're passionate about
(19:49):
public transit but they're notnecessarily formally trained?
What can they do to be moreinvolved and get into this, this
world?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
They can start their own podcast.
Yeah, so I've had a reallyinteresting career.
I've been in transit almost 10years, but I actually went to
school for music educationbecause I thought I wanted to be
a high school band director andthen run like a big 10, you
know, college marching band.
But I've always been interestedin cities and trains since I
was a little kid.
In fact, when I was 10 yearsold.
I sent my first email to theCEO of the Maryland Transit
(20:20):
Administration at that time,asking him how can I get your
job when I grow up?
So yeah, at age 10, I was likeI want to be a transit CEO.
Did he respond?
He did respond.
You know he responded, and thesummary is he said hey, Jerome,
even at the age of 10, it's nottoo early to begin thinking
about a career in transit.
You're going to want to learnabout finance and operations and
all the things that makesystems work, but the biggest
takeaway I got at the end ofthat email he said the most
(20:42):
important thing, though, if youwant to be a leader, is how you
treat other people.
That's what people are going toremember you for and that's
what's going to earn yourrespect, and people will want to
follow you when they know howmuch you care about them and
their interests.
You know, I would say to folksI've been able to have a pretty
great career in transit withouthaving a background.
You know the way I got into thefield.
(21:03):
I really used a lot of mytransferable skills as a
musician.
It's both a left brain andright brain activity, and music
is a form of expression andcommunication.
There are parts of music thatcan be inherently rigid and
mathematical and very systematic.
There's also the expression andthe flowing and the
interpretation.
Those are great skills that youcan translate to many things in
(21:24):
life.
And so I really got in the doorbecause I am a decent enough
communicator and I was a nerdabout transit enough that I
started as an entry levelcommunity engagement coordinator
back in Indianapolis at Indigo.
And you know, once I got intothe field though I was a sponge
I was absorbing all theknowledge I could.
I was watching lectures onYouTube, I was reading urban
(21:46):
planning textbooks, I wasvolunteering at advocacy events.
I was reading urban planningtextbooks, I was volunteering at
advocacy events.
So I'd say for those of you whoare interested, if your
community has a local advocacygroup, get plugged in.
There are so many wonderfulYouTube channels that exist and
podcasts that are talking aboutthis subject matter where you
can just learn a lot.
There are many great books outthere that you could read, and I
(22:07):
would say, if your dream is towork in transit you know, you
never know Reach out to yourlocal transit agency, your local
city planning staff.
More often than not, there arepeople out there that'd be
willing to meet you for lunch orfor coffee and just talk to you
about their work in the fieldand maybe give you some pointers
.
The last thing I'll say is Ishamelessly just reached out to
(22:28):
people on LinkedIn, right,People that I found that were
interesting.
I would just shoot them amessage.
Sometimes they responded,Sometimes they didn't, but keep
trying because you know, younever know.
You can meet one person whocould end up changing your life
for the better, and so I've beenreally fortunate just to have
some great people in my life,some great mentors that helped
me navigate the field, and onceagain, I think it's the best
(22:50):
decision I ever made to switch.
Like I said, I love transit, Ilove cities, and for me, it's
all about this personal missionto break down barriers and bring
people together.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Awesome.
Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, absolutely, with all that.
Seriously, thank you so muchfor taking the time.
And we've been in communicationfor a while and you were like,
oh, if you're ever in Baltimore,let me know.
And so we reached out and I'mglad we did.
This has been a really greattrip so far and we're actually I
don't know what the order ofthese will be coming out, but
we're getting ready to go doBaltimore in a day using only
public transit.
It's getting a little hot out,so it'll be a long day for sure,
(23:24):
but we're very excited to checkout the system.
So thank you very much fortaking the time.
We really appreciate it.
For folks, if they want tolearn more about the Redline
project and kind of stay intouch with how things are going,
where can they find out more?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, I can find out more.
Visit our websiteredlinemarylandcom.
Or just Google search Baltimore, Redline and that'll take you
to our website.
We're also at Redline Marylandon all forms of social media.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Awesome.
If you have not liked thisvideo already, please consider
doing so.
If you have questions about theproject, I'm sure we can make
sure we send some of them alongto Jerome.
Definitely leave those in thecomments.
If you want to support the showdirectly, the best way is you
can do so via our Patreon.
You can check out the merchstore, all that sort of stuff.
If you don't mind joining us atthe very end saying enjoy the
rest of your Transit, TangentsTuesday.
(24:07):
We'll kind of wrap it up here.
So thank you all so much forwatching and enjoy the rest of
your Transit.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Tangents Tuesday.
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