July 22, 2025 • 25 mins
Philadelphia's public transit agency, SEPTA, faces devastating 45% budget cuts if Pennsylvania doesn't pass adequate funding, threatening to eliminate 50 bus routes, end rail service at 9 pm, and cancel five suburban rail lines. We are joined by Steve, a Transit advocate from How We Get Around, to discuss the crisis and ongoing fight to save the system.
• SEPTA's funding crisis stems from Act 89's reduction from $450 million to $50 million for public transit statewide
• COVID relief funds temporarily kept service running, but are now depleted
• Proposed cuts would eliminate 50 bus routes and end all rail service at 9 pm
• Five of thirteen suburban rail lines would be canceled entirely, including the busy Paoli-Thorndale line
• Pennsylvania Senate remains the primary obstacle to passing transit funding
• Several Republican senators from transit-served areas have emerged as advocates
• State budget negotiations continue, but without a clear timeline for resolution
• Advocacy groups, including Save the Train, Transit for All PA, and Transit Forward Philadelphia are mobilizing public pressure
• New SEPTA GM Charles Sauer, who started as a trolley operator, brings operational experience to leadership
• Advocates stress the importance of creating permanent funding solutions beyond the current crisis
Contact your Pennsylvania state representatives and senators today to support public transit funding. Visit transitforallpa.org to learn how to get involved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Doors are closing.
Public transit that's my way toroll On the metro.
I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind, daily grind.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Public transit, it's the rhythm of my life, oh yeah,
philadelphia's public transitagency, septa, is about to have
its budget slashed by 45% if thePennsylvania state government
does not pass a new budget.
The impact of these cuts wouldmean 50 bus routes in the city
of Philadelphia being entirelycut, with the remainder having
their services reduced.
(00:35):
It would also mean all railservice throughout the city
ending at 9pm.
They currently run till justafter midnight.
It would also mean no morespecial service for events and
sporting games.
Five of the existing 13suburban rail lines would be
entirely canceled, with theremaining lines having their
services cut by 20%.
And all of this would also comewith a fair increase from $2.50
(00:57):
to $2.90.
But is all hope lost?
Well, I talked to Steve fromthe YouTube channel how we Get
Around and his answer wasactually pretty positive.
To start off with the hope bit,yes, there is Good.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
We like that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yes, so this week we'll go over what these cuts
mean for the city ofPhiladelphia, how we ended up in
this situation in the firstplace, where talks are currently
in trying to make sure a budgetthat funds public
transportation stands, as wellas some of the advocacy groups
working to save SEPTA.
To get us started, though, Iasked Steve to explain how we
ended up in this situation inthe first place.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think the big thing that has been missing from
SEPTA for a long time is a goal,and it's really just been a
case of don't let public transitdie for over 40 years at this
point.
But it's gotten to the pointwhere it's more like SEPTA has
(01:55):
continually been saved by a lotof short term bills that are
perceived to be long term.
That was the case with Act 89.
That was getting SEPTA morefunding on top of their current
subsidies to improve the service, naturally, and that was coming
up for renewal in 2022,especially with COVID funds
starting to wind down.
(02:16):
Obviously, every transit agencywas struggling during COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
To add some extra context here.
Pre-covid, septa got a bigchunk of its revenue from two
places fares and thePennsylvania Turnpike through
Act 89.
Fares actually covered 40% ofthe system's operating costs.
Act 89 chipped in an amountthat would vary each year, but
landed generally between $200 to$300 million.
Then, in 2020, the pandemic hit.
Ridership collapsed and with it, so did the fare revenue.
(02:42):
The federal government sent outCOVID relief funds to transit
agencies across the country tokeep them afloat, including
SEPTA, who received nearly $2billion.
The system was staying afloat,but an issue was on the horizon,
the main issue being that Act89 was scheduled to drastically
reduce its funding to publictransit in 2022.
Well, 2022 came along and Act89 funding went through its
(03:04):
reduction.
Now, only sending $50 millionper year to public transit
agencies across the entire state, not just SEPTA.
Remaining COVID funds and astopgap measure by Pennsylvania
Governor Josh Shapiro keptthings going a bit longer, but
now, in 2025, without money fromthe state budget to fill this
gap, we find ourselves in thepredicament that we're in now.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Without money from the state budget to fill this
gap, we find ourselves in thepredicament that we're in now.
So with the non-renewal,effectively, of Act 89, it's
gone from well.
(03:45):
Act 89 is still around, but itspublic transit funding is
massively curtailed from $450million down to $50 million,
which obviously will not get youvery far in this day and age.
So it's now been a scramble inthis budget to get a source of
revenue for not just for publictransit but to balance the state
budget in general, because thereason why SEPTA has had to
resort to going through with thedraconian cuts is because there
(04:06):
is no state budget right now inpennsylvania for anything and
like, constitutionally was, itwas supposed to be done by june
30th.
But uh, when I was out inharrisburg last month, uh, doing
a, an event out there with thegroup pittsburgh for public
transit and transit for all PA,we did a little bit of lobbying
(04:28):
and every staffer I talked tosaid that they were not
expecting it to be done by June30th.
And that's still the case now,even like over two months after
the two weeks after the fine, Ishould say right, uh, and even
now, from like a lot of thestuff I'm reading.
(04:50):
There's still a lot of impasses, and it's not just public
transit.
Public transit's one of themost vocal ones, but there's a
lot of them out there,especially with finding new
sources of revenue right, andthat's long been the struggle in
this case absolutely and okay.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So so we're in this situation now where I know that
Governor Shapiro did includefunding for this in his proposed
budget, but it still needs toget I believe it passed the
House as well Four times.
Four times it's passed theHouse, and the real tricky bit
here in Pennsylvania is gettingthis through the Senate.
(05:27):
Yes, can you kind of talk aboutI mean, I know the makeup of
the Senate isn't necessarilylike, that's why this is kind of
being held up at the moment Canyou kind of talk about that
dynamic and you know if there isany hope to get this across the
finish line in the Senate?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
To start off with the hope it.
Yes there is Good.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
We like, we like that .
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah, and that's just not not just me being an
optimistic person that I like tothink I am, even if, like it's
really easy, long been maybelike the thing I see with it is
maybe a bit less so of a partydivide and more of a rural urban
divide, because what I've beenseeing is some Republican
(06:21):
senators really stepping up tothe plate about SEPTA, and the
most vocal one by far has beenSenator Joe Picosi.
He's a Republican senator fromNortheast Philadelphia and he
rides SEPTA on the regular.
He rides the Trenton line,which is one of the routes
that's directly threatened.
So he's really been the mostvocal one out there.
(06:41):
But there are others too.
The ones that come to mind to meimmediately are Frank Ferry,
who is from Bucks County andlong been a SEPTA stalwart, and
the other would be TracyPenichuk, who not only
represents parts of MontgomeryCounty, which is also served by
SEPTA, but also parts of BerksCounty, which is served by BARDA
(07:03):
, but also parts of Berks County, which is served by BARDA,
which is the transit agency forReading, one of the major cities
.
So you have essentially youwould have the votes there for
any sort of transit bill.
The main thing has been theSenate leadership mainly Senator
Joe Pittman.
Senate leadership mainlySenator Joe Pittman.
(07:33):
Pittman has long said that sure, public transit is important,
but he's said that any transitfunding bill should also go with
more funding for road upkeep,especially in rural areas and on
the surface.
I don't blame him for that,especially since Pennsylvania,
with one of the largest roadnetworks in the northeastern
United States, it has long had areputation for being a pothole
(07:55):
mess.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I was gonna say I grew up in upstate New York
and I remember going down toPennsylvania and like knowing
that that was the thing.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, yeah you know you're in Pennsylvania when the
roads get worse.
Yes, so on the surface I don'tdisagree with Pittman on that.
There's.
But there's a lot of stuff thatI may not have the time to go
deep into.
That makes it a bit problematicto consider.
But.
But it's basically come down tothe point that any transit
(08:23):
funding bill would also go withmore funding going to PennDOT
for road upkeep.
And this fourth bill that haspassed the House and is on the
Senate's docket, this does havethat.
They're trying to work aroundsome of the hard red lines that
the Senate has said red linesthat the Senate has said and a
(08:47):
lot of the backroom discussionsthat Pittman has had with House
leadership and with GovernorShapiro's administration.
I'm hoping that can get Pittmanto finally bring this to the
table where, with people likePicozzi and Ferry and Pinochuk,
this would clear it, this wouldclear the Senate and end up on
the governor's desk and he wouldinevitably sign it.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Is there any sort of timeline for when this may
happen, because I know that thecuts would be going into effect
in August at this point, whichis not very far away.
I mean, we're recording this onJuly 16th.
Do you think that it'sreasonable for this to happen
before then?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think it is reasonable to happen before then
, especially since the cutswould take place in late August
and the fare increases wouldhappen on the 1st of September.
The main thing, though, is thatthere is no timeline right now.
There's a lot of negotiationthat's been going on recently,
but not much has been madepublic, so, especially with how
(09:49):
bitter a lot of this fightinghas become, on a lot of issues,
including public transport, it'shard to really say when it will
happen.
Maybe it'll happen in a coupleof days, maybe it'll happen in a
couple of weeks, but it is it'shard to really say when, and
that's where a lot of the dread,I think, is coming from that
(10:10):
that, how long are you going tolet this persist until, like, a
lot, of, a lot of the bad stuffhas happened?
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, and it just makes it.
You know, I understand whypeople are worried about that
Because, like I was kind ofsaying at the beginning, I mean
mean for folks who rely on theseservices every single day, it's
hard to plan to know what'sgonna if you're, if you're a
reliable ride to work or to youknow your, whatever it may be,
is is gone.
It makes makes planning verydifficult.
(10:38):
Can you just share what thissort of cut would mean for the
city of Philadelphia and justkind of get your reaction to
them?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Long and short of it, it would be absolutely
devastating.
Like you have a city of, likethe city itself is 1.6 million,
the metro area is about 6million, so you got one of the
biggest cities in the countrythat would have about half of
its transit service gone, andespecially at vital times of the
day, especially with nightservice.
(11:11):
Already the rapid transit linesend around the midnight hour
and that is pretty useful, andthere's also some bus routes
that are able to compensate forthat.
But this would completely getrid of them.
And that's among a lot of otherbus routes that would be
completely curtailed.
(11:32):
Some of them would be a bitsurplus to requirement.
To begin with, I look at a routelike Route 89, which is often
cited as one of the most uselessbus routes in the city in more
ways than one.
But it also would hurt themajor routes as well.
It would be more of a focus onthe agency running the routes
(11:55):
that already get a lot ofridership, routes like the 47,
the 23, a lot of routes likethat that are like major
corridors.
But it would really hurt a lotof the routes that would feed
into those routes and supplementthat ridership, and you also
see this with the one that Ifeel the most attached to, I
(12:17):
guess you could say, which isthe regional rail.
You already have a route.
You have a system that has, uh,13 different routes in it.
This would get rid of five ofthem, right, and including the
busiest one on the entirenetwork, the paley thorndale
line, largely because septadoesn't actually own that line.
(12:39):
It's owned by amtrak and theyhave to pay fees to them to run
trains on their on their routes,and that's about 60 million
dollars a year thereabouts.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, and I mean you're obviously talking about,
you know, night service nowbeing cut.
Correct me if I'm wrong here,but on the main rail routes
we're talking service ending at9 pm, which is, you know, right.
Obviously we'd love things.
You said currently it'smidnight.
We'd love things to be laterthan that, but 9 pm makes it so
that I mean, if you're someonewho works nights, if you work in
(13:09):
the, if you're someone whoworks at a restaurant, if your
bus route does survive thesecuts again, 50 bus routes are
currently slated to be canceledunder these over the kind of.
(13:33):
The first wave would start inAugust.
It wouldn't be all 50, it wouldbe a portion of them, and then
the rest later in the year, allof a sudden commuting for folks
who you know thought they had areliable way in and out, yeah, I
mean, it fully can flippeople's lives upside down if
their way to get to and fromwork disappears.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, and in the case of the rail routes particularly
, you look at a lot of theroutes that have developed
around that rail line,especially around the local
service, developed around thatrail line, especially around the
local service.
Paley Thorndale is the bestexample, but also the
Wilmington-Newark line, theChestnut Hill West line.
Those ones have theircommunities around them, have
(14:14):
developed around those raillines and then that rail line
would be gone.
In the case of Chestnut HillWest you do at least have
Chestnut Hill East that be ableto compensate for it somewhat,
but it's still absolutelydevastating to them because you
have like nothing left.
You just have a useless railline just sitting there
collecting dust, essentiallyuntil the, until whatever
(14:37):
funding comes around in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I'm curious.
I'm just inevitably waiting.
I'm sure somebody will commenton this video saying, oh, the
reason SEPTA doesn't have anymoney is because they mismanage
everything and all this sort ofstuff.
Can you kind of address that?
Because from what I understandand looking at I know recently
I've seen this passed around onReddit and whatnot of how
(14:59):
efficient transit agencies arein terms of their kind of cost
per rider, and SEPTA to correctme if I'm wrong here tends to be
near the top of that list, Iguess.
Yeah, can you talk about?
Um, just more generallyspeaking, is this is this kind
of argument from folks sayingthat, like SEPTA is just
mismanaging this accurate, or isit more so that, like the state
(15:20):
government or you know, thereneeds to be a more permanent
funding mechanism?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I would definitely lean more towards the latter on
this one.
That's not to say that SEPTA iscompletely innocent in this
case.
There's been a lot of transitfans, particularly is the septum
Metro project, which is thesort of the rebranding of the
(15:48):
rapid transit lines, the marketFrankfurt line, the Broad Street
line, which we have neverreferred to by color.
Really, it's just been a.
I actually noticed that.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I was, I was waiting.
Yeah, I was gonna say we got alot of calm.
I mean, it is, I'm gonna, I'mgonna take.
I'm gonna take the excuse thatwe were.
Literally we did the exact samething in Boston the day before
and got into Philly at like 1 inthe morning and then woke up
and started at like pretty earlyin the morning again the next
day.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I can't say I blame you too much.
It's just that no local hasever really referred to us.
They tried but they failed.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
The amount of comments that we did get quite a
few comments on that, and Imean, every city we go to we
butcher something like that.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So I'll, it's okay, I'll, I'll take it and hey like
I butcher stuff too in my videosso but um, but yeah, the
rebrand of the?
uh, the rapid transit lines andthe trolleys as well.
It was kind of met with disdainin that, uh, not so much for
how it was done, but more thefact that it was done in the
first place, and it was kind ofmet with disdain in that, not so
much for how it was done, butmore the fact that it was done
(16:47):
in the first place and it wasthat.
Why are you putting in all thistime and effort and definitely
money into a rebrand of yourrapid transit services when the
main thing that's hurtingridership growth and ridership
recovery has been a lacklusterservice itself, especially with
(17:09):
a lot of the things thathappened post-COVID it's still
not quite to the same servicefrequencies on a lot of services
.
That it was, uh, pre-2019 right, so so it's like, why are you
putting it towards that when youcould put that money towards
improving bus services,improving the rapid transit line
, improving, like clean up aswell?
Because, uh, because it wentfrom a point where the uh, the
(17:33):
rapid transit lines werereasonably clean to the point
where they were seen as anoutright travesty.
Now, honestly, like a lot ofphiladelphians like to complain
about that sort of thing in thefirst place, but it really did
get bad.
They've gotten better now,thankfully, but it's still uh
like it's still kind oftarnished in some ways and that
(17:54):
might be what argued that sortof money should go towards the
basics, essentially Go back tobasics on this sort of thing.
And with new leadership comingalong, with Sauer, the new GM,
coming along, I think there's abetter chance of that than most,
because Sauer has been involvedwith septa for about 40 years.
(18:17):
He was a trolley operator, um,when he started out.
That's cool, so so he's uh in abetter position than most, I
think, to really make a turnaround that previous gms like,
uh, leslie richards, who uhattempted to try, definitely,
but she was not particularlywell-versed in public transit
(18:37):
before coming along.
But someone like Sauer, I think, is in a better position than
most and I think he's aware of alot of the issues.
He's just been hamstrung by thebudget so far, obviously with
the proceedings.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah and this is a side note, but it's fun to hear
that that the new gm is uh likestarted as a trolley operator.
I know in in austin.
Uh, the the ceo of cap metro,dotty watkins, started it as a
bus driver at cap metro andshe's now the ceo of it.
So it's kind of fun when I Ithink you do like earn a level
of respect when it's like thesefolks really understand how,
(19:14):
like, so many of the nittygritty pieces work in practice,
not just on paper too.
So, um, that can definitely bean asset, especially with the
right team around you.
Um, yeah, definitely I'mcurious.
Uh, I, so I will.
We'll make sure there's linksfor folks below too.
Um, I watched your two videos onthis topic, um, and you did
some great interviews withadvocates who are trying to
(19:35):
prevent these cuts fromhappening.
Can you talk about some of theadvocacy groups who've been kind
of working on this and kind ofwhere folks should go,
especially if they're inPennsylvania and want to get out
and try to, you know, make somepositive change here and make
sure that you know this budgetis properly allocated and then,
even after this, you know, kindof short term battle is complete
(19:56):
.
How do you make sure that youtry to create some sort of more
permanent structure, which Iknow you know is like super
important, so that 10 years fromnow we're not having the exact
same conversation?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Exactly and, like I got my own theories personally
on how we could possibly do thatand I definitely want to put it
around to some people.
I'll definitely be makingvideos about that down the line.
But in terms of the advocacygroups, there's a lot to choose
from.
There's a lot of people thatare putting out really good work
.
It's basically an all hands ondeck situation right now and
(20:27):
everybody is acutely aware of it.
In my video I talked to BobPraviti, who's the policy
director of the Save the Traingroup.
They started out as an advocacygroup for preserving service on
the Chestnut Hill West linewhen that was threatened and it
still is, and it's kind ofexpanded to the entire SEPTA
(20:50):
rail network particularly, butthe SEPTA system in general, and
they've allied themselves witha whole bunch of other advocacy
groups.
The biggest ones would be guyslike Transit for All PA, who I
went to an event out to inHarrisburg.
They've been putting out a lotof good work out there,
especially for not just forPhilly but for agencies that are
(21:10):
in more rural places, becausethey want to get it across to
these Republican senators thatthere's a lot of transit
agencies in all 67 counties andthis would hurt them and would
hurt their constituents as muchas it would hurt people in
Philly and Pittsburgh.
Right, and so you got them.
You got Pittsburghers for publictransit for the
(21:32):
Pittsburgh-based folks, andyou've got Transit Forward
Philadelphia.
You've got the city's Chamberof Commerce.
You've got a whole bunch ofthem.
Fifth Square obviously.
A really big Philly urbanistgroup has been involved in it
too Great.
So there's a lot to choose from, and you'll definitely have all
(21:55):
the links to it, and I'll havethe links on my videos on the
matter as well.
Perfect.
So for those that really wantto get involved, pitch in,
because your voice can reallyhelp.
Like, every voice in the chorusmakes it louder.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Totally.
It's fantastic and I mean thatcan be, can be.
Obviously, if you're inphiladelphia, definitely
directly get involved with someof those groups.
I'm actually you can't quitesee it, but I'm wearing my my
data shirt, which is the thefolks who are down in in dallas
or up.
I love that.
Yes, I know me too.
I get so many compliments onthis shirt, um, but uh, you know
(22:30):
that like they were a group andif there isn't a group in your
city and this sort of thing isis happening and you're running
into issues, make one datastarted their group and one year
later, uh, basically hadsuccessfully like gone and they
had like 30 people or so show upat the texas state house, were
going around lobbying andmeeting with all these different
(22:50):
uh representatives and senatorsand uh, they, at least for now,
now prevented cuts that werecoming towards their system in
Dallas from the state level.
So you know, definitely, ifyou're in Pennsylvania, get
involved in some of these groups.
We'll make sure there's linksthere, but also look for it
wherever you may be, because youknow you don't want this sort
(23:12):
of thing to pop up and happen,but it may, and it's better to
have a group of like-mindedfolks who can kind of work
together on this sort of stuffbefore it happens, if you can
avoid it.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Absolutely, especially in the situation
we're in now.
And obviously we know it's notjust Pennsylvania, it's a bunch
of other states too.
I think Illinois may be theother big example of what's
going on with Chicago.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Absolutely Well, I don't want to take too much of
your time.
Steve was like nice enough todo this in the midst of his like
summer vacation right now, so Ireally appreciate it and it
also just shows how much hecares about the issue.
So thank you so much for takingthe time, steve.
Is there anything else you wantto share and where can folks
find out more more about you,your youtube channel and
(23:56):
anywhere else you might want tosend them?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
so, yeah, uh, thanks for the shout out in your
previous video as well, lewis.
Uh, but the channel is how weget around, and I've been
talking about not just transitissues in, uh, pennsylvania and
philadelphia, but around thenortheast.
Uh, I've long been a train nerd,particularly, and it's why I
love making stuff about Amtrakas well, especially about the
Northeast Corridor and all ofits wonderful, delightful,
(24:22):
chaotic issues, but also itsincredible potential too, and I
love that and especially you'llbe seeing on the channel,
especially with where I'm at now.
This is not where I normallyrecord from.
I'm actually at a friend'shouse in Copenhagen, denmark, a
(24:42):
city that I think has a transitsystem could serve as a goal to
strive for for Philadelphia inso many ways.
So prepare to see a lot ofstuff from that, and Stockholm,
too, as like an interestingpoint of comparison, because
it's definitely opened up a lotof new perspectives for me and I
think that it's really going tohelp with getting a lot of the
(25:08):
stuff I think about across.
So it's not just aboutPhiladelphia, it's about
Pennsylvania, it's about theNortheast, it's about the whole
country really, and I love totalk about that sort of thing
and just nerd out about it.
So how we get around is thechannel.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Awesome, Steve.
Thanks again so much for takingthe time.
We really appreciate it.
Thanks so much, Lewis.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Thanks for having me on.
Doors are closing.
Public transit that's my way toroll On the metro.
I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind, daily grind.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Public transit, it's the rhythm of my life, oh yeah,
philadelphia's public transitagency, septa, is about to have
its budget slashed by 45% if thePennsylvania state government
does not pass a new budget.
The impact of these cuts wouldmean 50 bus routes in the city
of Philadelphia being entirelycut, with the remainder having
their services reduced.
(00:35):
It would also mean all railservice throughout the city
ending at 9pm.
They currently run till justafter midnight.
It would also mean no morespecial service for events and
sporting games.
Five of the existing 13suburban rail lines would be
entirely canceled, with theremaining lines having their
services cut by 20%.
And all of this would also comewith a fair increase from $2.50
(00:57):
to $2.90.
But is all hope lost?
Well, I talked to Steve fromthe YouTube channel how we Get
Around and his answer wasactually pretty positive.
To start off with the hope bit,yes, there is Good.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
We like that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yes, so this week we'll go over what these cuts
mean for the city ofPhiladelphia, how we ended up in
this situation in the firstplace, where talks are currently
in trying to make sure a budgetthat funds public
transportation stands, as wellas some of the advocacy groups
working to save SEPTA.
To get us started, though, Iasked Steve to explain how we
ended up in this situation inthe first place.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think the big thing that has been missing from
SEPTA for a long time is a goal,and it's really just been a
case of don't let public transitdie for over 40 years at this
point.
But it's gotten to the pointwhere it's more like SEPTA has
(01:55):
continually been saved by a lotof short term bills that are
perceived to be long term.
That was the case with Act 89.
That was getting SEPTA morefunding on top of their current
subsidies to improve the service, naturally, and that was coming
up for renewal in 2022,especially with COVID funds
starting to wind down.
(02:16):
Obviously, every transit agencywas struggling during COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
To add some extra context here.
Pre-covid, septa got a bigchunk of its revenue from two
places fares and thePennsylvania Turnpike through
Act 89.
Fares actually covered 40% ofthe system's operating costs.
Act 89 chipped in an amountthat would vary each year, but
landed generally between $200 to$300 million.
Then, in 2020, the pandemic hit.
Ridership collapsed and with it, so did the fare revenue.
(02:42):
The federal government sent outCOVID relief funds to transit
agencies across the country tokeep them afloat, including
SEPTA, who received nearly $2billion.
The system was staying afloat,but an issue was on the horizon,
the main issue being that Act89 was scheduled to drastically
reduce its funding to publictransit in 2022.
Well, 2022 came along and Act89 funding went through its
(03:04):
reduction.
Now, only sending $50 millionper year to public transit
agencies across the entire state, not just SEPTA.
Remaining COVID funds and astopgap measure by Pennsylvania
Governor Josh Shapiro keptthings going a bit longer, but
now, in 2025, without money fromthe state budget to fill this
gap, we find ourselves in thepredicament that we're in now.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Without money from the state budget to fill this
gap, we find ourselves in thepredicament that we're in now.
So with the non-renewal,effectively, of Act 89, it's
gone from well.
(03:45):
Act 89 is still around, but itspublic transit funding is
massively curtailed from $450million down to $50 million,
which obviously will not get youvery far in this day and age.
So it's now been a scramble inthis budget to get a source of
revenue for not just for publictransit but to balance the state
budget in general, because thereason why SEPTA has had to
resort to going through with thedraconian cuts is because there
(04:06):
is no state budget right now inpennsylvania for anything and
like, constitutionally was, itwas supposed to be done by june
30th.
But uh, when I was out inharrisburg last month, uh, doing
a, an event out there with thegroup pittsburgh for public
transit and transit for all PA,we did a little bit of lobbying
(04:28):
and every staffer I talked tosaid that they were not
expecting it to be done by June30th.
And that's still the case now,even like over two months after
the two weeks after the fine, Ishould say right, uh, and even
now, from like a lot of thestuff I'm reading.
(04:50):
There's still a lot of impasses, and it's not just public
transit.
Public transit's one of themost vocal ones, but there's a
lot of them out there,especially with finding new
sources of revenue right, andthat's long been the struggle in
this case absolutely and okay.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So so we're in this situation now where I know that
Governor Shapiro did includefunding for this in his proposed
budget, but it still needs toget I believe it passed the
House as well Four times.
Four times it's passed theHouse, and the real tricky bit
here in Pennsylvania is gettingthis through the Senate.
(05:27):
Yes, can you kind of talk aboutI mean, I know the makeup of
the Senate isn't necessarilylike, that's why this is kind of
being held up at the moment Canyou kind of talk about that
dynamic and you know if there isany hope to get this across the
finish line in the Senate?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
To start off with the hope it.
Yes there is Good.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
We like, we like that .
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah, and that's just not not just me being an
optimistic person that I like tothink I am, even if, like it's
really easy, long been maybelike the thing I see with it is
maybe a bit less so of a partydivide and more of a rural urban
divide, because what I've beenseeing is some Republican
(06:21):
senators really stepping up tothe plate about SEPTA, and the
most vocal one by far has beenSenator Joe Picosi.
He's a Republican senator fromNortheast Philadelphia and he
rides SEPTA on the regular.
He rides the Trenton line,which is one of the routes
that's directly threatened.
So he's really been the mostvocal one out there.
(06:41):
But there are others too.
The ones that come to mind to meimmediately are Frank Ferry,
who is from Bucks County andlong been a SEPTA stalwart, and
the other would be TracyPenichuk, who not only
represents parts of MontgomeryCounty, which is also served by
SEPTA, but also parts of BerksCounty, which is served by BARDA
(07:03):
, but also parts of Berks County, which is served by BARDA,
which is the transit agency forReading, one of the major cities
.
So you have essentially youwould have the votes there for
any sort of transit bill.
The main thing has been theSenate leadership mainly Senator
Joe Pittman.
Senate leadership mainlySenator Joe Pittman.
(07:33):
Pittman has long said that sure, public transit is important,
but he's said that any transitfunding bill should also go with
more funding for road upkeep,especially in rural areas and on
the surface.
I don't blame him for that,especially since Pennsylvania,
with one of the largest roadnetworks in the northeastern
United States, it has long had areputation for being a pothole
(07:55):
mess.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I was gonna say I grew up in upstate New York
and I remember going down toPennsylvania and like knowing
that that was the thing.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, yeah you know you're in Pennsylvania when the
roads get worse.
Yes, so on the surface I don'tdisagree with Pittman on that.
There's.
But there's a lot of stuff thatI may not have the time to go
deep into.
That makes it a bit problematicto consider.
But.
But it's basically come down tothe point that any transit
(08:23):
funding bill would also go withmore funding going to PennDOT
for road upkeep.
And this fourth bill that haspassed the House and is on the
Senate's docket, this does havethat.
They're trying to work aroundsome of the hard red lines that
the Senate has said red linesthat the Senate has said and a
(08:47):
lot of the backroom discussionsthat Pittman has had with House
leadership and with GovernorShapiro's administration.
I'm hoping that can get Pittmanto finally bring this to the
table where, with people likePicozzi and Ferry and Pinochuk,
this would clear it, this wouldclear the Senate and end up on
the governor's desk and he wouldinevitably sign it.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Is there any sort of timeline for when this may
happen, because I know that thecuts would be going into effect
in August at this point, whichis not very far away.
I mean, we're recording this onJuly 16th.
Do you think that it'sreasonable for this to happen
before then?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think it is reasonable to happen before then
, especially since the cutswould take place in late August
and the fare increases wouldhappen on the 1st of September.
The main thing, though, is thatthere is no timeline right now.
There's a lot of negotiationthat's been going on recently,
but not much has been madepublic, so, especially with how
(09:49):
bitter a lot of this fightinghas become, on a lot of issues,
including public transport, it'shard to really say when it will
happen.
Maybe it'll happen in a coupleof days, maybe it'll happen in a
couple of weeks, but it is it'shard to really say when, and
that's where a lot of the dread,I think, is coming from that
(10:10):
that, how long are you going tolet this persist until, like, a
lot, of, a lot of the bad stuffhas happened?
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, and it just makes it.
You know, I understand whypeople are worried about that
Because, like I was kind ofsaying at the beginning, I mean
mean for folks who rely on theseservices every single day, it's
hard to plan to know what'sgonna if you're, if you're a
reliable ride to work or to youknow your, whatever it may be,
is is gone.
It makes makes planning verydifficult.
(10:38):
Can you just share what thissort of cut would mean for the
city of Philadelphia and justkind of get your reaction to
them?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Long and short of it, it would be absolutely
devastating.
Like you have a city of, likethe city itself is 1.6 million,
the metro area is about 6million, so you got one of the
biggest cities in the countrythat would have about half of
its transit service gone, andespecially at vital times of the
day, especially with nightservice.
(11:11):
Already the rapid transit linesend around the midnight hour
and that is pretty useful, andthere's also some bus routes
that are able to compensate forthat.
But this would completely getrid of them.
And that's among a lot of otherbus routes that would be
completely curtailed.
(11:32):
Some of them would be a bitsurplus to requirement.
To begin with, I look at a routelike Route 89, which is often
cited as one of the most uselessbus routes in the city in more
ways than one.
But it also would hurt themajor routes as well.
It would be more of a focus onthe agency running the routes
(11:55):
that already get a lot ofridership, routes like the 47,
the 23, a lot of routes likethat that are like major
corridors.
But it would really hurt a lotof the routes that would feed
into those routes and supplementthat ridership, and you also
see this with the one that Ifeel the most attached to, I
(12:17):
guess you could say, which isthe regional rail.
You already have a route.
You have a system that has, uh,13 different routes in it.
This would get rid of five ofthem, right, and including the
busiest one on the entirenetwork, the paley thorndale
line, largely because septadoesn't actually own that line.
(12:39):
It's owned by amtrak and theyhave to pay fees to them to run
trains on their on their routes,and that's about 60 million
dollars a year thereabouts.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, and I mean you're obviously talking about,
you know, night service nowbeing cut.
Correct me if I'm wrong here,but on the main rail routes
we're talking service ending at9 pm, which is, you know, right.
Obviously we'd love things.
You said currently it'smidnight.
We'd love things to be laterthan that, but 9 pm makes it so
that I mean, if you're someonewho works nights, if you work in
(13:09):
the, if you're someone whoworks at a restaurant, if your
bus route does survive thesecuts again, 50 bus routes are
currently slated to be canceledunder these over the kind of.
(13:33):
The first wave would start inAugust.
It wouldn't be all 50, it wouldbe a portion of them, and then
the rest later in the year, allof a sudden commuting for folks
who you know thought they had areliable way in and out, yeah, I
mean, it fully can flippeople's lives upside down if
their way to get to and fromwork disappears.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, and in the case of the rail routes particularly
, you look at a lot of theroutes that have developed
around that rail line,especially around the local
service, developed around thatrail line, especially around the
local service.
Paley Thorndale is the bestexample, but also the
Wilmington-Newark line, theChestnut Hill West line.
Those ones have theircommunities around them, have
(14:14):
developed around those raillines and then that rail line
would be gone.
In the case of Chestnut HillWest you do at least have
Chestnut Hill East that be ableto compensate for it somewhat,
but it's still absolutelydevastating to them because you
have like nothing left.
You just have a useless railline just sitting there
collecting dust, essentiallyuntil the, until whatever
(14:37):
funding comes around in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I'm curious.
I'm just inevitably waiting.
I'm sure somebody will commenton this video saying, oh, the
reason SEPTA doesn't have anymoney is because they mismanage
everything and all this sort ofstuff.
Can you kind of address that?
Because from what I understandand looking at I know recently
I've seen this passed around onReddit and whatnot of how
(14:59):
efficient transit agencies arein terms of their kind of cost
per rider, and SEPTA to correctme if I'm wrong here tends to be
near the top of that list, Iguess.
Yeah, can you talk about?
Um, just more generallyspeaking, is this is this kind
of argument from folks sayingthat, like SEPTA is just
mismanaging this accurate, or isit more so that, like the state
(15:20):
government or you know, thereneeds to be a more permanent
funding mechanism?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I would definitely lean more towards the latter on
this one.
That's not to say that SEPTA iscompletely innocent in this
case.
There's been a lot of transitfans, particularly is the septum
Metro project, which is thesort of the rebranding of the
(15:48):
rapid transit lines, the marketFrankfurt line, the Broad Street
line, which we have neverreferred to by color.
Really, it's just been a.
I actually noticed that.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I was, I was waiting.
Yeah, I was gonna say we got alot of calm.
I mean, it is, I'm gonna, I'mgonna take.
I'm gonna take the excuse thatwe were.
Literally we did the exact samething in Boston the day before
and got into Philly at like 1 inthe morning and then woke up
and started at like pretty earlyin the morning again the next
day.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I can't say I blame you too much.
It's just that no local hasever really referred to us.
They tried but they failed.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
The amount of comments that we did get quite a
few comments on that, and Imean, every city we go to we
butcher something like that.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So I'll, it's okay, I'll, I'll take it and hey like
I butcher stuff too in my videosso but um, but yeah, the
rebrand of the?
uh, the rapid transit lines andthe trolleys as well.
It was kind of met with disdainin that, uh, not so much for
how it was done, but more thefact that it was done in the
first place, and it was kind ofmet with disdain in that, not so
much for how it was done, butmore the fact that it was done
(16:47):
in the first place and it wasthat.
Why are you putting in all thistime and effort and definitely
money into a rebrand of yourrapid transit services when the
main thing that's hurtingridership growth and ridership
recovery has been a lacklusterservice itself, especially with
(17:09):
a lot of the things thathappened post-COVID it's still
not quite to the same servicefrequencies on a lot of services
.
That it was, uh, pre-2019 right, so so it's like, why are you
putting it towards that when youcould put that money towards
improving bus services,improving the rapid transit line
, improving, like clean up aswell?
Because, uh, because it wentfrom a point where the uh, the
(17:33):
rapid transit lines werereasonably clean to the point
where they were seen as anoutright travesty.
Now, honestly, like a lot ofphiladelphians like to complain
about that sort of thing in thefirst place, but it really did
get bad.
They've gotten better now,thankfully, but it's still uh
like it's still kind oftarnished in some ways and that
(17:54):
might be what argued that sortof money should go towards the
basics, essentially Go back tobasics on this sort of thing.
And with new leadership comingalong, with Sauer, the new GM,
coming along, I think there's abetter chance of that than most,
because Sauer has been involvedwith septa for about 40 years.
(18:17):
He was a trolley operator, um,when he started out.
That's cool, so so he's uh in abetter position than most, I
think, to really make a turnaround that previous gms like,
uh, leslie richards, who uhattempted to try, definitely,
but she was not particularlywell-versed in public transit
(18:37):
before coming along.
But someone like Sauer, I think, is in a better position than
most and I think he's aware of alot of the issues.
He's just been hamstrung by thebudget so far, obviously with
the proceedings.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah and this is a side note, but it's fun to hear
that that the new gm is uh likestarted as a trolley operator.
I know in in austin.
Uh, the the ceo of cap metro,dotty watkins, started it as a
bus driver at cap metro andshe's now the ceo of it.
So it's kind of fun when I Ithink you do like earn a level
of respect when it's like thesefolks really understand how,
(19:14):
like, so many of the nittygritty pieces work in practice,
not just on paper too.
So, um, that can definitely bean asset, especially with the
right team around you.
Um, yeah, definitely I'mcurious.
Uh, I, so I will.
We'll make sure there's linksfor folks below too.
Um, I watched your two videos onthis topic, um, and you did
some great interviews withadvocates who are trying to
(19:35):
prevent these cuts fromhappening.
Can you talk about some of theadvocacy groups who've been kind
of working on this and kind ofwhere folks should go,
especially if they're inPennsylvania and want to get out
and try to, you know, make somepositive change here and make
sure that you know this budgetis properly allocated and then,
even after this, you know, kindof short term battle is complete
(19:56):
.
How do you make sure that youtry to create some sort of more
permanent structure, which Iknow you know is like super
important, so that 10 years fromnow we're not having the exact
same conversation?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Exactly and, like I got my own theories personally
on how we could possibly do thatand I definitely want to put it
around to some people.
I'll definitely be makingvideos about that down the line.
But in terms of the advocacygroups, there's a lot to choose
from.
There's a lot of people thatare putting out really good work
.
It's basically an all hands ondeck situation right now and
(20:27):
everybody is acutely aware of it.
In my video I talked to BobPraviti, who's the policy
director of the Save the Traingroup.
They started out as an advocacygroup for preserving service on
the Chestnut Hill West linewhen that was threatened and it
still is, and it's kind ofexpanded to the entire SEPTA
(20:50):
rail network particularly, butthe SEPTA system in general, and
they've allied themselves witha whole bunch of other advocacy
groups.
The biggest ones would be guyslike Transit for All PA, who I
went to an event out to inHarrisburg.
They've been putting out a lotof good work out there,
especially for not just forPhilly but for agencies that are
(21:10):
in more rural places, becausethey want to get it across to
these Republican senators thatthere's a lot of transit
agencies in all 67 counties andthis would hurt them and would
hurt their constituents as muchas it would hurt people in
Philly and Pittsburgh.
Right, and so you got them.
You got Pittsburghers for publictransit for the
(21:32):
Pittsburgh-based folks, andyou've got Transit Forward
Philadelphia.
You've got the city's Chamberof Commerce.
You've got a whole bunch ofthem.
Fifth Square obviously.
A really big Philly urbanistgroup has been involved in it
too Great.
So there's a lot to choose from, and you'll definitely have all
(21:55):
the links to it, and I'll havethe links on my videos on the
matter as well.
Perfect.
So for those that really wantto get involved, pitch in,
because your voice can reallyhelp.
Like, every voice in the chorusmakes it louder.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Totally.
It's fantastic and I mean thatcan be, can be.
Obviously, if you're inphiladelphia, definitely
directly get involved with someof those groups.
I'm actually you can't quitesee it, but I'm wearing my my
data shirt, which is the thefolks who are down in in dallas
or up.
I love that.
Yes, I know me too.
I get so many compliments onthis shirt, um, but uh, you know
(22:30):
that like they were a group andif there isn't a group in your
city and this sort of thing isis happening and you're running
into issues, make one datastarted their group and one year
later, uh, basically hadsuccessfully like gone and they
had like 30 people or so show upat the texas state house, were
going around lobbying andmeeting with all these different
(22:50):
uh representatives and senatorsand uh, they, at least for now,
now prevented cuts that werecoming towards their system in
Dallas from the state level.
So you know, definitely, ifyou're in Pennsylvania, get
involved in some of these groups.
We'll make sure there's linksthere, but also look for it
wherever you may be, because youknow you don't want this sort
(23:12):
of thing to pop up and happen,but it may, and it's better to
have a group of like-mindedfolks who can kind of work
together on this sort of stuffbefore it happens, if you can
avoid it.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Absolutely, especially in the situation
we're in now.
And obviously we know it's notjust Pennsylvania, it's a bunch
of other states too.
I think Illinois may be theother big example of what's
going on with Chicago.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Absolutely Well, I don't want to take too much of
your time.
Steve was like nice enough todo this in the midst of his like
summer vacation right now, so Ireally appreciate it and it
also just shows how much hecares about the issue.
So thank you so much for takingthe time, steve.
Is there anything else you wantto share and where can folks
find out more more about you,your youtube channel and
(23:56):
anywhere else you might want tosend them?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
so, yeah, uh, thanks for the shout out in your
previous video as well, lewis.
Uh, but the channel is how weget around, and I've been
talking about not just transitissues in, uh, pennsylvania and
philadelphia, but around thenortheast.
Uh, I've long been a train nerd,particularly, and it's why I
love making stuff about Amtrakas well, especially about the
Northeast Corridor and all ofits wonderful, delightful,
(24:22):
chaotic issues, but also itsincredible potential too, and I
love that and especially you'llbe seeing on the channel,
especially with where I'm at now.
This is not where I normallyrecord from.
I'm actually at a friend'shouse in Copenhagen, denmark, a
(24:42):
city that I think has a transitsystem could serve as a goal to
strive for for Philadelphia inso many ways.
So prepare to see a lot ofstuff from that, and Stockholm,
too, as like an interestingpoint of comparison, because
it's definitely opened up a lotof new perspectives for me and I
think that it's really going tohelp with getting a lot of the
(25:08):
stuff I think about across.
So it's not just aboutPhiladelphia, it's about
Pennsylvania, it's about theNortheast, it's about the whole
country really, and I love totalk about that sort of thing
and just nerd out about it.
So how we get around is thechannel.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Awesome, Steve.
Thanks again so much for takingthe time.
We really appreciate it.
Thanks so much, Lewis.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Thanks for having me on.
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