March 18, 2025 • 24 mins
The Chicago Red Line extension is finally breaking ground after fifty years of planning, promising to transform mobility for underserved communities on Chicago's far south side with a $5.7 billion investment in transit infrastructure.
• Five and a half mile extension from 95th Street to 130th Street serving Altgeld Gardens
• Four new stations bringing rail service to approximately 100,000 residents
• Project costs over $1 billion per mile, with $2 billion coming from federal grants
• Expected to reduce commute times by 30 minutes and generate $1.7 billion in development
• Construction begins 2025 with projected opening in 2029
• Debates continue about whether BRT or commuter rail alternatives could have provided similar benefits at lower costs
• Political concerns about transit funding and the potential for future administrations to target high-cost urban projects
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Doors are closing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Public transit, that's my way to roll On.
A metro I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind.
Public transit, it's the rhythmof my life.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
On this episode of Transit Tensions, we talk about
the Chicago Red Line extension.
While this project does a greatjob of serving an area that is
currently a rail transit desert,its price tag will surprise you
.
We'll discuss the route, thebudget, potential alternatives
and more on this episode ofTransit Tangents.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of
Transit Tangents.
My name's Chris and I'm Lewis,and today we are diving into a
topic that we've sort of touchedon barely in the past, about
the Chicago area and some of thework that's being done on the
metro there, specifically theRed Line extension.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, so in the past we talked about station
improvements and whatnot on thenorthern end of the Red Line
that are actually coming soon.
So stay tuned for those.
If you're in Chicago, if youget to ride them or anything,
definitely let us know and seethe new stations.
We'd love to see them.
But yeah, this is going to be afive and a half mile extension
that goes further south intocurrently underserved areas on
(01:17):
the south side of Chicago.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yep.
This has been sort of decadesin the making and it looks like
we are finally breaking groundand making progress here in 2025
, with an expected opening datein 2029 for this extension.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yep.
So on the episode we're goingto kind of talk about the plan
itself.
We'll give a brief overview ofall of the transportation
options in Chicago and also talkabout some of the pros and cons
of this project, because I feela little strange when we start
to talk about the price tag ofthis and all of that and I also
want to touch on it later on inthe episode.
(01:49):
We'll talk about how the Bidenadministration actually signed
to make sure funding for thishappened kind of at the last
minute in January before leavingoffice.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, but to get started we'll do a brief
overview of Chicago.
If you've been to the Chicagoarea, you have seen the famous
Chicago L, which is short forelevated train.
It is a very extensive trainnetwork that sort of runs
through the shoreline of Chicagoand you have the red and, I
think, purple line that go upnorth and then you have a red
(02:19):
line that comes down south.
In total you have about eightlines serving about 145 stations
throughout the city.
All of these sort of convergeinto downtown Chicago where
there's this loop of metro thatsort of goes around the Chicago
area, Something sort of uniqueto the US.
You don't see that a lot butit's really cool because it sort
of works as like a central hubfor all of those elevated lines.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
And in addition to the L systemthey also have a massive
suburban rail network known asMetra.
There are 11 lines that go wayout into the suburbs in
significant length and numbers.
It's actually impressive.
When you just like, even if yougo on Google Maps and click the
transit view, you get a massivespider web.
(03:04):
As we were looking at it, wewere just saying, man, it really
does need like a little bit ofa ring route at some point and
it would probably do pretty welland all that's about 500 miles
worth of suburban rail, so veryvery extensive Yep and in
addition to that you also havethe South Shore line we're
mentioning this specificallybecause it will kind of come in
later in the conversation thatconnects downtown Chicago
(03:26):
through Gary, indiana all theway out to the South Bend
Indiana airport.
That kind of also connects intothis larger transportation
system in the area.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Former home of our good friend, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I'm actually, you know, we're going to speak
specifically just about the redline in this episode, but in the
future I would love to do aChicago using only public
transit episode.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I have not had the opportunity to go and actually
ride this network, so yeah,that's another good benchmark
episode, similar to our DC one,where we went to DC and we knew
that it wasn't going to be anecessarily bad experience.
I think Chicago's would be asimilar good like benchmark
episode.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Exactly, for sure, for sure.
Um, all right with that.
Uh, let's jump into, uh, theactual extension on the red line
here.
So, uh, we're talking about afive and a half mile extension
as it approaches this part oftown.
Uh, right now it ends at 95thstreet and it runs right down
the median of the highway allthe way up till 95th.
It kind of stays in the highwayfor a little bit, going into
(04:28):
the extension, before kind ofcrossing over and into some
existing Union Pacificright-of-way.
In this area it shares theright-of-way but the rail line
will actually be elevated allthe way through here and it'll
be elevated for the duration ofthe line it runs through.
There'll be four new stops intotal, ending at 130th Street
where, you know, towards the endit actually veers away from the
(04:50):
Union Pacific right-of-way andkind of joins in where the South
Shore Limited and Metro tracksare running.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
As I mentioned before , this project has been decades
in the making.
It's actually been about a halfcentury in the making.
This was talked about back in1969, when it was proposed by
then Mayor Daley in Chicago, andit has literally taken half a
decade or sorry, half a decade,half a century to get to this
(05:18):
point.
So, 50 years later, we'refinally seeing progress and
finally seeing a groundbreakingin 2025.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, it's pretty wild that it's taken that long.
Obviously, it was probablyfloated at that point and then
not, and then it's probably beenfloated a handful of times
since.
But, yeah, they're breakingground this year, which is great
.
They started the engineeringphase back in 2023, take some
time to get all those planstogether and they're hoping to
have revenue service begin by2029.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, which it seems doable considering this is 50
years in the making and onlyfive miles, like just over five
miles, yeah five and a halfmiles, and again it's going to
be not super disruptive to majorroadways or anything.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You should be able to do this in its own right of way
here, sharing right away withsome things, but not in a way
where it's like you're notdemolishing tons of buildings
and houses and whatever it is todo this.
Um, you're using land that isalready kind of set aside for
transportation and one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I had to do some property acquisitions, but, yeah
, for the most part on the rightaway, so you would think this
would be minimal disruption.
Yeah, but in total this isgoing to add four new stations
to the line one at 103rd Street,one at 111th Street, one in
Michigan Avenue and then the onethat ends at 130th Street, as
(06:34):
you mentioned before.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Absolutely, and the price tag.
On this one I had to likedouble, triple take it because
it has ballooned quite a bit.
This project will cost over $1billion per mile, which it hurt
a little bit inside as I wasreading that it was supposed to
(06:56):
be in the range of like $500million to $600 million a mile
when it was first floated.
And then you know, witheverything during COVID, a lot
of construction materials, allthis sort of stuff goes up like
crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
It was estimated that construction and labor costs
increased by 60% post-COVID.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Regardless.
I mean it is yeah, so the totalprice tag on this is $5.7
billion as it stands today.
Um, we'll kind of talk a littlebit more about it a little bit
later on here, but 2 billion ofit roughly comes from federal
grants that came in from theBiden administration.
Uh, it was passed in January.
They they actually like signedeverything to make it official
that that money will go through.
(07:32):
I am going to knock on woodstill here, because we're seeing
a lot of funny stuff going on.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
There's no guarantee that current administrations
won't try to claw that moneyback.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yes, which is obviously not ideal, but it is a
reality.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
We'll have to check on the fertility rate of Chicago
and see if it meets SeanDuffy's expectations to warrant
funding.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, we'll see on that one, yeah, but overall, I
mean this is going to be one ofthe most expensive elevated rail
lines built in the UnitedStates.
I mean it kind of has to be themost expensive, if I'm being
honest, but we'll see.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It really will be and I'm sure it's going to be
something that conservatives andanti-transit folks point to as
wasteful spending.
We could get into the argumentabout if it's truly wasteful in
just a moment, but, as you said,about $2 billion coming from
the Biden-Harris administrationfrom.
Back in January, the city ofChicago also established a
(08:28):
dedicated transit TIF, which isa tax increment financing, which
is sort of a method ofsubsidizing infrastructure
development or just aredevelopment of a region.
That's estimated to provideroughly $950 million in local
funding towards this project aswell.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And the remainder is going to come from state and CTA
funding sources that they haveset up already.
So, as far as ridership goes,this area is currently not
served by any of the elevatedrail network.
It is presently served in someareas by some of the commuter
rails that we've talked about,as well as by bus service.
But these new stations cominginto the area are going to serve
(09:09):
an estimated 100,000 people wholive in this area, who live
close to the new stationlocations.
The ridership they're expectingabout 38,000 weekday riders
upon opening, with thatincreasing over time leading
into 2040.
And it's going to cut down thecommute times for folks in far
south side Chicago into downtownby upwards of 30 minutes
(09:31):
because now they're not going toneed to hop on a bus then take
the bus transfer at the trainstation.
As we all know, we've talkedabout buses on the show quite a
bit relying on buses andpotentially even needing to
transfer and all this sort ofstuff.
Every little thing like thatjust takes more time.
Transfers take time, they canadd stress to people's commutes
and they're going to be lesslikely to ride the more
transfers they're going to needto do and this kind of solves
(09:59):
that problem for folks in farsouth Chicago.
We'll jump right back into theepisode in just a second, but
first, if you haven't liked thisvideo or left a comment, please
do so.
It helps us out quite a bit andwe also have some exciting news
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Speaker 3 (10:05):
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Speaker 1 (10:18):
Lastly, if you want to support the show directly and
get access to early episodes,you can do so on Patreon, but
without further ado let's jumpright back into the episode.
So that's a general overview ofwhere the line goes, the
timelines of everything, whatit's going to cost, who we're
expecting to ride it.
There are a few points on this,as I was doing research, that
shocked me a little bit,especially considering the price
(10:41):
tag and the other services thatare already in the area.
If you're from Chicago and youthink that what I'm saying is
wrong, please tell me.
I want you to roast me in thecomments if you think that I'm
really wrong here, but theneighborhood that is going to be
served by the 130th StreetStation is Altgeld Gardens.
The area is kind of a railtransit desert right now.
(11:04):
There are bus lines thatconnect into here.
In particular, the 34 bus doesrun through here and connect you
to the end of the red line.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, I was going to say we should also mention
mention that Altgale Gardens isa Chicago Housing Authority
development too, so it'stypically a low-income community
and, as you're saying, they'reunderserved by rail, so that
should be established.
This is the destination of theline, is this community?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yes, it is really close to the existing South
Shore line as well as one of themetro lines on the west side of
Altgale Gardens.
Right now, though, there's nostops right there.
The current end of the red lineextension is going to be right
(11:52):
next to the South Shore linetracks right next to the South
Shore line tracks.
To me, especially consideringthe price tag of this program at
over a billion dollars a mile,I'll remind you it feels like if
you added an infill station onthe South Shore line, an infill
station on the Metro line on theother side, and then you add
(12:13):
some good circulator buses thatare actually frequent, that get
you to those two things, you'regoing to solve a lot of the
problem.
And then, in addition to that,you could also take this
existing 34 bus and I'm surethere are other buses that run
through this corridor to the endof the current red line at 95th
Street and upgrade some of thatinfrastructure to make it more
(12:34):
of a true BRT.
And upgrade some of thatinfrastructure to make it more
of a true BRT, you could achievevery similar, if not almost
better, connectivity for thearea by adding these infill
stations Now, like thefrequencies on those commuter
lines are going to be less thanthe red line would be.
But if you do that inpartnership with adding some
additional bus infrastructure,but like nice bus infrastructure
, brt lines, I do think that youcould serve the area just as
(12:58):
well, if not potentially better,for a small portion of the
price tag.
Now again, I don't want to beall doom and gloom.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I'll let you kind of give the yeah, no, I think it's
a good alternative.
I mean, you're wrong butkidding it's a good alternative
for sure.
And when you look at the map,yes, this sort of rail desert.
It does have these two linesthat could better serve the
community by adding infillstations.
I know that the CTA in theirenvironmental impact study they
looked at BRT lines.
(13:25):
This was an alternative thatthey explored but ultimately
decided to go with thisextension of the L train and I
think that there's a couple ofgood points to talk about on why
they did that.
One of them excuse me, one ofthem is reliability and
connectivity.
So if you have a lot more busesin this area as much as I do
(13:48):
like buses and I think buses area good alternative to rail in a
lot of cases buses do have moreissues with reliability.
They break down, there's morecongestion on the roadways,
there's road projects that havethem diverted, you need a lot of
drivers, you need a lot ofdrivers and also they have lower
capacity.
So there are challenges thatget presented with the buses.
Same with the BRT route youcan't move as many people with
(14:11):
the BRT.
You can get kind of close, butyou can't move as many people
with the BRT and then you'restill taking a bus to then
transfer at a station.
But one point that I think isreally valuable for people who
are jumping on this redlineextension is that there's no
end-of-the-line transfer either.
For the most part you mightmove to another L train.
(14:34):
But if your goal is to, let'ssay, get to the north side of
Chicago because that's where youwork, if you are on that red
line, you can take it all theway to the north side and you
don't have to transfer at theUnion Station or any of the
downtown stations.
You can basically ride itstraight through the loop and
get to your north destination.
But even if you're trying toget to, let's say, o'hare
Airport or something, it's aquick transfer on the red line
(14:57):
and then you're out to O'Hare atthat central hub.
So I do think for connectivitythis is a faster option for the
residents of this community?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
No, it certainly is, and I mean it's all about
depending on, like, wherepeople's travel patterns are
taking them.
Right, because if they're justtrying to get to other
destinations on the south sideof Chicago, the BRT thing that
I'm mentioning might actuallyprovide more locations than the
elevated rail here will, becausethe elevated rail has stop
(15:28):
spacing.
That's pretty far apart, whichas it should be for a network
like that.
But if folks are trying to getall the way to downtown or
points north, then the extensionmakes sense.
But if you're trying to get allthe way to downtown or points
north, then the extension makessense.
But if you're trying to get todowntown, I mean you have these
two commuter lines on either endof the, the neighborhood.
That can kind of solve thatproblem too.
So it's definitely it's a trickyone, it's not, it's I.
(15:49):
Just the thing that makes menervous, entering into the
political reality that we're intoday, is we're just setting
ourselves up to be like wow,they're spending a billion
dollars a mile, it's get thefive billion dollar, boondoggle,
blah, blah.
I can already hear sean duffyout there talking shit about
this.
Frankly, like, and I, I again,I actually, like you know I'm, I
(16:12):
want there to be a a reallywell done transportation system
everywhere in the united states,but like this makes you know, I
understand like this area needsbetter transit, like what I'm
hearing is that you don't thinkthese residents deserve a train?
yeah, that's exactly what.
You know what?
No, I'm saying that theydeserve two trains on either
side and vrt, it's.
(16:34):
It's just tricky.
I guess I'm trying to wranglein my head with all this stuff
right now of what should we beprioritizing, what types of
projects should we be doing, andI don't know.
I just get nervous when thishappens, that this is just
another example that the Trumpadministration can point to and
be like, oh, we're spending somuch money, let's just have a
(16:55):
private company, would neverspend that kind of money.
Well, let's privatize it all.
Like they're saying with Amtrak, like they're saying with the
post office, like they're sayingwith all this stuff right now,
I just start to get nervous.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I don't disagree.
I think that it's worthy to benervous of that, because what
we're seeing is really troubling.
We've seen the press conferenceat the California high speed
rail about trying to kill it.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think they were chanting build the rail.
It's been 17 years and 16billion dollars and no rail has
been built.
So if you want to go protestsomewhere, if you want to shout
at someone, go to the governor'smansion.
Go talk to Democrats in thelegislature who have brought us
this crappy project right.
So we've seen over the courseof the last month what doge has
(17:39):
exposed with regard to fraud,waste and abuse, and we're done
with it.
And you know what?
You're gonna have people wholove fraud, who love waste, who
love trains to nowhere.
But all of us up here, we donot love fraud, waste and abuse.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I could very easily see them starting to target
these projects like these,especially because they're in
heavily Democratic cities.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
This would be so easy for them to pick on If it was
$5 billion in JacksonvilleFlorida, they probably wouldn't
say we're not Definitely not.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I always pick on Jacksonville, florida, as my
conservative example, and Idon't even know how they vote,
so you know, but it's in.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Florida, so obviously they vote more conservative
than Chicago does.
Yeah, that's kind of like thebiggest qualm I have and I mean
I think again, I would be reallyexcited to see this happen,
given the existing plan.
But yeah, it seems like therewere a lot of potential
alternatives and maybe we willstart to see infill stations
(18:33):
also happen and you get the redline and you maybe also get a
commuter line or something likethat I will say.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Another reason why I think they're going with the
train line is they do expectthese new stations, this new
line, to spur.
I think it was over $1.7billion in development along
these corridors, so that's moreapartments that can be built,
more shops to serve thesecommunities.
Obviously, it's going to comewith a little more
gentrification, yep, but that issort of an inevitability with
(18:59):
transit projects like this, yep.
But I also think and thiswasn't explicitly laid out, but
looking at the map there arecommunities that are further
south of this that I think wouldbenefit from rail as well as
well.
Wow of this that I think wouldbenefit from rail as well as
well.
Wow, rail as well, rail as well.
And this could be a good spurto then connect those
communities.
Yeah, but to your point, we hadthis discussion before we
(19:22):
jumped on.
The red line is already gettingvery long, right, and if you're
riding from, let's say, theIndiana State line all the way
back to downtown Chicago, it'sgoing to take a while.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It feels a little excessive for being part of the
elevated rail system, not partof the suburban network.
For the suburban network.
Yes, keep going basically.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Although any Long Island New York City rider is
laughing at that statement,probably yes.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, and I mean to argueagainst myself here already, now
that you bring up the points oflike additional development
happening and whatnot.
I mean that additionaldevelopment will drive more
property tax revenue for thecity and all the stuff that can
(20:05):
be funneled back into projectslike this.
So you know, while the $5.7billion price tag is crazy, it's
not like that revenue won'tcome in via other sources in the
future.
It is an investment.
I do think that we should beable to build transit for less
than that in the United Statesand that we should actively be
trying to figure out how we cando that.
I'm not holding my breath forus doing that anytime soon, but
I would like to see that happen.
Even an expensive project likethis will pay off in dividends
(20:28):
in the long run, but you have tohave that longer view picture.
I just get worried that thefolks in power don't do that
right now.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, maybe the folks in power will come up with a
scheme like we're going to builda rail and Mexico will pay for
it.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath on that one
either.
They'll say that they're goingto do it.
They'll say that Mexico paidfor it, and then there will
still be no rail.
Yeah, exactly.
I also think it's worthpointing out apologies for
getting a little political inthis episode, just because it's,
but frankly, it is all gettingvery political right now,
transit is very politicized.
But you know, I guess first I'llgive kudos to the Biden
(21:03):
administration for making surethat the grants and everything
were signed and approved beforethe transition to the Trump
administration.
Because right now, as we watchhere in Austin, I'm very worried
about Project Connect funding.
I'm very worried about othercities trying to do similar
things.
So glad to see that Chicago wasable to have this approved in
(21:26):
mid-January before the Bidenadministration left.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
You also did make a good point.
We need to blast this story outto every person in Austin and
show them that we're getting areally good deal on Project
Connect.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yes, exactly Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
We're spending $7 billion and actually less than
that because we have a buffer inthere.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
We have 40% contingency $7 billion for I
think it's 10 miles of lightrail to start.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And they very well may well have that buffer in
there too.
They might.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Hopefully they do for the cost there.
But, yeah, definitely worthpointing out.
The negative I'll put on this,though, is like man for how,
like train positive, joe Bidenwas, amtrak, joe, all of this
stuff.
Like I don't want to discountthe, the amount of work that
(22:14):
went into, like studying thecorridor, id programs and all
this sort of stuff andallocating thing, but like it's
there's no teeth to it.
It's gone now.
Like like sure, the studiesexist, but like there will be no
forward progress on any of thatfor the next four years.
And just like after sittinghere watching how abruptly and
(22:35):
aggressively the newadministration has rolled in and
just done all the stuff thatthey wanted to do and I don't
even agree with all the waysthat they're doing it, but like
if they're gonna play that way,democrats need to play that way
also.
And just like start like thenext time they have power, if
they don't seize it, I'm goingto lose my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I'm going to lose my mind at least seize it on
transit funding, please.
But anyway, that is a goodoverview, I think, of the
Chicago red line extension aswell as my political rants.
At the end I'm going to try towrap this up before Doge comes
in and kills our podcast, but Ithink that is a good explanation
of sort of the Chicago red linerants.
(23:12):
At the end I'm going to try towrap this up before Doge comes
in and kills our podcast, but Ithink that is a good explanation
of sort of the Chicago red line, the extension that's happening
down there.
I do think ultimately, this isgoing to be a really good
project for residents in thispart of the city because as it
stands now it does seem liketheir commutes are pretty long
and exhaustive, but this willdefinitely help them get better
connections.
I do think it's better foreconomic development for Chicago
(23:33):
and ultimately, good for thecity of Chicago.
It's just the reality now thatthese projects have very, very
high price tags.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yes, If you're from the Chicago area or you have
thoughts, definitely let us knowin the comments.
We love to see them.
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(24:01):
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Speaker 1 (24:18):
Awesome.
With all that being said, thankyou all so much for watching
and enjoy the rest of yourTransit.
Tangent Tuesday.
Doors are closing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Public transit, that's my way to roll On.
A metro I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind.
Public transit, it's the rhythmof my life.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
On this episode of Transit Tensions, we talk about
the Chicago Red Line extension.
While this project does a greatjob of serving an area that is
currently a rail transit desert,its price tag will surprise you
.
We'll discuss the route, thebudget, potential alternatives
and more on this episode ofTransit Tangents.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of
Transit Tangents.
My name's Chris and I'm Lewis,and today we are diving into a
topic that we've sort of touchedon barely in the past, about
the Chicago area and some of thework that's being done on the
metro there, specifically theRed Line extension.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, so in the past we talked about station
improvements and whatnot on thenorthern end of the Red Line
that are actually coming soon.
So stay tuned for those.
If you're in Chicago, if youget to ride them or anything,
definitely let us know and seethe new stations.
We'd love to see them.
But yeah, this is going to be afive and a half mile extension
that goes further south intocurrently underserved areas on
(01:17):
the south side of Chicago.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yep.
This has been sort of decadesin the making and it looks like
we are finally breaking groundand making progress here in 2025
, with an expected opening datein 2029 for this extension.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yep.
So on the episode we're goingto kind of talk about the plan
itself.
We'll give a brief overview ofall of the transportation
options in Chicago and also talkabout some of the pros and cons
of this project, because I feela little strange when we start
to talk about the price tag ofthis and all of that and I also
want to touch on it later on inthe episode.
(01:49):
We'll talk about how the Bidenadministration actually signed
to make sure funding for thishappened kind of at the last
minute in January before leavingoffice.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, but to get started we'll do a brief
overview of Chicago.
If you've been to the Chicagoarea, you have seen the famous
Chicago L, which is short forelevated train.
It is a very extensive trainnetwork that sort of runs
through the shoreline of Chicagoand you have the red and, I
think, purple line that go upnorth and then you have a red
(02:19):
line that comes down south.
In total you have about eightlines serving about 145 stations
throughout the city.
All of these sort of convergeinto downtown Chicago where
there's this loop of metro thatsort of goes around the Chicago
area, Something sort of uniqueto the US.
You don't see that a lot butit's really cool because it sort
of works as like a central hubfor all of those elevated lines.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
And in addition to the L systemthey also have a massive
suburban rail network known asMetra.
There are 11 lines that go wayout into the suburbs in
significant length and numbers.
It's actually impressive.
When you just like, even if yougo on Google Maps and click the
transit view, you get a massivespider web.
(03:04):
As we were looking at it, wewere just saying, man, it really
does need like a little bit ofa ring route at some point and
it would probably do pretty welland all that's about 500 miles
worth of suburban rail, so veryvery extensive Yep and in
addition to that you also havethe South Shore line we're
mentioning this specificallybecause it will kind of come in
later in the conversation thatconnects downtown Chicago
(03:26):
through Gary, indiana all theway out to the South Bend
Indiana airport.
That kind of also connects intothis larger transportation
system in the area.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Former home of our good friend, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I'm actually, you know, we're going to speak
specifically just about the redline in this episode, but in the
future I would love to do aChicago using only public
transit episode.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I have not had the opportunity to go and actually
ride this network, so yeah,that's another good benchmark
episode, similar to our DC one,where we went to DC and we knew
that it wasn't going to be anecessarily bad experience.
I think Chicago's would be asimilar good like benchmark
episode.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Exactly, for sure, for sure.
Um, all right with that.
Uh, let's jump into, uh, theactual extension on the red line
here.
So, uh, we're talking about afive and a half mile extension
as it approaches this part oftown.
Uh, right now it ends at 95thstreet and it runs right down
the median of the highway allthe way up till 95th.
It kind of stays in the highwayfor a little bit, going into
(04:28):
the extension, before kind ofcrossing over and into some
existing Union Pacificright-of-way.
In this area it shares theright-of-way but the rail line
will actually be elevated allthe way through here and it'll
be elevated for the duration ofthe line it runs through.
There'll be four new stops intotal, ending at 130th Street
where, you know, towards the endit actually veers away from the
(04:50):
Union Pacific right-of-way andkind of joins in where the South
Shore Limited and Metro tracksare running.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
As I mentioned before , this project has been decades
in the making.
It's actually been about a halfcentury in the making.
This was talked about back in1969, when it was proposed by
then Mayor Daley in Chicago, andit has literally taken half a
decade or sorry, half a decade,half a century to get to this
(05:18):
point.
So, 50 years later, we'refinally seeing progress and
finally seeing a groundbreakingin 2025.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, it's pretty wild that it's taken that long.
Obviously, it was probablyfloated at that point and then
not, and then it's probably beenfloated a handful of times
since.
But, yeah, they're breakingground this year, which is great
.
They started the engineeringphase back in 2023, take some
time to get all those planstogether and they're hoping to
have revenue service begin by2029.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, which it seems doable considering this is 50
years in the making and onlyfive miles, like just over five
miles, yeah five and a halfmiles, and again it's going to
be not super disruptive to majorroadways or anything.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You should be able to do this in its own right of way
here, sharing right away withsome things, but not in a way
where it's like you're notdemolishing tons of buildings
and houses and whatever it is todo this.
Um, you're using land that isalready kind of set aside for
transportation and one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I had to do some property acquisitions, but, yeah
, for the most part on the rightaway, so you would think this
would be minimal disruption.
Yeah, but in total this isgoing to add four new stations
to the line one at 103rd Street,one at 111th Street, one in
Michigan Avenue and then the onethat ends at 130th Street, as
(06:34):
you mentioned before.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Absolutely, and the price tag.
On this one I had to likedouble, triple take it because
it has ballooned quite a bit.
This project will cost over $1billion per mile, which it hurt
a little bit inside as I wasreading that it was supposed to
(06:56):
be in the range of like $500million to $600 million a mile
when it was first floated.
And then you know, witheverything during COVID, a lot
of construction materials, allthis sort of stuff goes up like
crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
It was estimated that construction and labor costs
increased by 60% post-COVID.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Regardless.
I mean it is yeah, so the totalprice tag on this is $5.7
billion as it stands today.
Um, we'll kind of talk a littlebit more about it a little bit
later on here, but 2 billion ofit roughly comes from federal
grants that came in from theBiden administration.
Uh, it was passed in January.
They they actually like signedeverything to make it official
that that money will go through.
(07:32):
I am going to knock on woodstill here, because we're seeing
a lot of funny stuff going on.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
There's no guarantee that current administrations
won't try to claw that moneyback.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yes, which is obviously not ideal, but it is a
reality.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
We'll have to check on the fertility rate of Chicago
and see if it meets SeanDuffy's expectations to warrant
funding.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, we'll see on that one, yeah, but overall, I
mean this is going to be one ofthe most expensive elevated rail
lines built in the UnitedStates.
I mean it kind of has to be themost expensive, if I'm being
honest, but we'll see.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It really will be and I'm sure it's going to be
something that conservatives andanti-transit folks point to as
wasteful spending.
We could get into the argumentabout if it's truly wasteful in
just a moment, but, as you said,about $2 billion coming from
the Biden-Harris administrationfrom.
Back in January, the city ofChicago also established a
(08:28):
dedicated transit TIF, which isa tax increment financing, which
is sort of a method ofsubsidizing infrastructure
development or just aredevelopment of a region.
That's estimated to provideroughly $950 million in local
funding towards this project aswell.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And the remainder is going to come from state and CTA
funding sources that they haveset up already.
So, as far as ridership goes,this area is currently not
served by any of the elevatedrail network.
It is presently served in someareas by some of the commuter
rails that we've talked about,as well as by bus service.
But these new stations cominginto the area are going to serve
(09:09):
an estimated 100,000 people wholive in this area, who live
close to the new stationlocations.
The ridership they're expectingabout 38,000 weekday riders
upon opening, with thatincreasing over time leading
into 2040.
And it's going to cut down thecommute times for folks in far
south side Chicago into downtownby upwards of 30 minutes
(09:31):
because now they're not going toneed to hop on a bus then take
the bus transfer at the trainstation.
As we all know, we've talkedabout buses on the show quite a
bit relying on buses andpotentially even needing to
transfer and all this sort ofstuff.
Every little thing like thatjust takes more time.
Transfers take time, they canadd stress to people's commutes
and they're going to be lesslikely to ride the more
transfers they're going to needto do and this kind of solves
(09:59):
that problem for folks in farsouth Chicago.
We'll jump right back into theepisode in just a second, but
first, if you haven't liked thisvideo or left a comment, please
do so.
It helps us out quite a bit andwe also have some exciting news
.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, if you want to support the show.
We have swag, we havemerchandise.
Go check out our store or youcan get hats, t shirts, hoodies,
a bunch of other things coming,new designs for that all going
to be coming up in the next fewweeks.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Lastly, if you want to support the show directly and
get access to early episodes,you can do so on Patreon, but
without further ado let's jumpright back into the episode.
So that's a general overview ofwhere the line goes, the
timelines of everything, whatit's going to cost, who we're
expecting to ride it.
There are a few points on this,as I was doing research, that
shocked me a little bit,especially considering the price
(10:41):
tag and the other services thatare already in the area.
If you're from Chicago and youthink that what I'm saying is
wrong, please tell me.
I want you to roast me in thecomments if you think that I'm
really wrong here, but theneighborhood that is going to be
served by the 130th StreetStation is Altgeld Gardens.
The area is kind of a railtransit desert right now.
(11:04):
There are bus lines thatconnect into here.
In particular, the 34 bus doesrun through here and connect you
to the end of the red line.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, I was going to say we should also mention
mention that Altgale Gardens isa Chicago Housing Authority
development too, so it'stypically a low-income community
and, as you're saying, they'reunderserved by rail, so that
should be established.
This is the destination of theline, is this community?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yes, it is really close to the existing South
Shore line as well as one of themetro lines on the west side of
Altgale Gardens.
Right now, though, there's nostops right there.
The current end of the red lineextension is going to be right
(11:52):
next to the South Shore linetracks right next to the South
Shore line tracks.
To me, especially consideringthe price tag of this program at
over a billion dollars a mile,I'll remind you it feels like if
you added an infill station onthe South Shore line, an infill
station on the Metro line on theother side, and then you add
(12:13):
some good circulator buses thatare actually frequent, that get
you to those two things, you'regoing to solve a lot of the
problem.
And then, in addition to that,you could also take this
existing 34 bus and I'm surethere are other buses that run
through this corridor to the endof the current red line at 95th
Street and upgrade some of thatinfrastructure to make it more
(12:34):
of a true BRT.
And upgrade some of thatinfrastructure to make it more
of a true BRT, you could achievevery similar, if not almost
better, connectivity for thearea by adding these infill
stations Now, like thefrequencies on those commuter
lines are going to be less thanthe red line would be.
But if you do that inpartnership with adding some
additional bus infrastructure,but like nice bus infrastructure
, brt lines, I do think that youcould serve the area just as
(12:58):
well, if not potentially better,for a small portion of the
price tag.
Now again, I don't want to beall doom and gloom.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I'll let you kind of give the yeah, no, I think it's
a good alternative.
I mean, you're wrong butkidding it's a good alternative
for sure.
And when you look at the map,yes, this sort of rail desert.
It does have these two linesthat could better serve the
community by adding infillstations.
I know that the CTA in theirenvironmental impact study they
looked at BRT lines.
(13:25):
This was an alternative thatthey explored but ultimately
decided to go with thisextension of the L train and I
think that there's a couple ofgood points to talk about on why
they did that.
One of them excuse me, one ofthem is reliability and
connectivity.
So if you have a lot more busesin this area as much as I do
(13:48):
like buses and I think buses area good alternative to rail in a
lot of cases buses do have moreissues with reliability.
They break down, there's morecongestion on the roadways,
there's road projects that havethem diverted, you need a lot of
drivers, you need a lot ofdrivers and also they have lower
capacity.
So there are challenges thatget presented with the buses.
Same with the BRT route youcan't move as many people with
(14:11):
the BRT.
You can get kind of close, butyou can't move as many people
with the BRT and then you'restill taking a bus to then
transfer at a station.
But one point that I think isreally valuable for people who
are jumping on this redlineextension is that there's no
end-of-the-line transfer either.
For the most part you mightmove to another L train.
(14:34):
But if your goal is to, let'ssay, get to the north side of
Chicago because that's where youwork, if you are on that red
line, you can take it all theway to the north side and you
don't have to transfer at theUnion Station or any of the
downtown stations.
You can basically ride itstraight through the loop and
get to your north destination.
But even if you're trying toget to, let's say, o'hare
Airport or something, it's aquick transfer on the red line
(14:57):
and then you're out to O'Hare atthat central hub.
So I do think for connectivitythis is a faster option for the
residents of this community?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
No, it certainly is, and I mean it's all about
depending on, like, wherepeople's travel patterns are
taking them.
Right, because if they're justtrying to get to other
destinations on the south sideof Chicago, the BRT thing that
I'm mentioning might actuallyprovide more locations than the
elevated rail here will, becausethe elevated rail has stop
(15:28):
spacing.
That's pretty far apart, whichas it should be for a network
like that.
But if folks are trying to getall the way to downtown or
points north, then the extensionmakes sense.
But if you're trying to get allthe way to downtown or points
north, then the extension makessense.
But if you're trying to get todowntown, I mean you have these
two commuter lines on either endof the, the neighborhood.
That can kind of solve thatproblem too.
So it's definitely it's a trickyone, it's not, it's I.
(15:49):
Just the thing that makes menervous, entering into the
political reality that we're intoday, is we're just setting
ourselves up to be like wow,they're spending a billion
dollars a mile, it's get thefive billion dollar, boondoggle,
blah, blah.
I can already hear sean duffyout there talking shit about
this.
Frankly, like, and I, I again,I actually, like you know I'm, I
(16:12):
want there to be a a reallywell done transportation system
everywhere in the united states,but like this makes you know, I
understand like this area needsbetter transit, like what I'm
hearing is that you don't thinkthese residents deserve a train?
yeah, that's exactly what.
You know what?
No, I'm saying that theydeserve two trains on either
side and vrt, it's.
(16:34):
It's just tricky.
I guess I'm trying to wranglein my head with all this stuff
right now of what should we beprioritizing, what types of
projects should we be doing, andI don't know.
I just get nervous when thishappens, that this is just
another example that the Trumpadministration can point to and
be like, oh, we're spending somuch money, let's just have a
(16:55):
private company, would neverspend that kind of money.
Well, let's privatize it all.
Like they're saying with Amtrak, like they're saying with the
post office, like they're sayingwith all this stuff right now,
I just start to get nervous.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I don't disagree.
I think that it's worthy to benervous of that, because what
we're seeing is really troubling.
We've seen the press conferenceat the California high speed
rail about trying to kill it.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think they were chanting build the rail.
It's been 17 years and 16billion dollars and no rail has
been built.
So if you want to go protestsomewhere, if you want to shout
at someone, go to the governor'smansion.
Go talk to Democrats in thelegislature who have brought us
this crappy project right.
So we've seen over the courseof the last month what doge has
(17:39):
exposed with regard to fraud,waste and abuse, and we're done
with it.
And you know what?
You're gonna have people wholove fraud, who love waste, who
love trains to nowhere.
But all of us up here, we donot love fraud, waste and abuse.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I could very easily see them starting to target
these projects like these,especially because they're in
heavily Democratic cities.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
This would be so easy for them to pick on If it was
$5 billion in JacksonvilleFlorida, they probably wouldn't
say we're not Definitely not.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I always pick on Jacksonville, florida, as my
conservative example, and Idon't even know how they vote,
so you know, but it's in.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Florida, so obviously they vote more conservative
than Chicago does.
Yeah, that's kind of like thebiggest qualm I have and I mean
I think again, I would be reallyexcited to see this happen,
given the existing plan.
But yeah, it seems like therewere a lot of potential
alternatives and maybe we willstart to see infill stations
(18:33):
also happen and you get the redline and you maybe also get a
commuter line or something likethat I will say.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Another reason why I think they're going with the
train line is they do expectthese new stations, this new
line, to spur.
I think it was over $1.7billion in development along
these corridors, so that's moreapartments that can be built,
more shops to serve thesecommunities.
Obviously, it's going to comewith a little more
gentrification, yep, but that issort of an inevitability with
(18:59):
transit projects like this, yep.
But I also think and thiswasn't explicitly laid out, but
looking at the map there arecommunities that are further
south of this that I think wouldbenefit from rail as well as
well.
Wow of this that I think wouldbenefit from rail as well as
well.
Wow, rail as well, rail as well.
And this could be a good spurto then connect those
communities.
Yeah, but to your point, we hadthis discussion before we
(19:22):
jumped on.
The red line is already gettingvery long, right, and if you're
riding from, let's say, theIndiana State line all the way
back to downtown Chicago, it'sgoing to take a while.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It feels a little excessive for being part of the
elevated rail system, not partof the suburban network.
For the suburban network.
Yes, keep going basically.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Although any Long Island New York City rider is
laughing at that statement,probably yes.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, and I mean to argueagainst myself here already, now
that you bring up the points oflike additional development
happening and whatnot.
I mean that additionaldevelopment will drive more
property tax revenue for thecity and all the stuff that can
(20:05):
be funneled back into projectslike this.
So you know, while the $5.7billion price tag is crazy, it's
not like that revenue won'tcome in via other sources in the
future.
It is an investment.
I do think that we should beable to build transit for less
than that in the United Statesand that we should actively be
trying to figure out how we cando that.
I'm not holding my breath forus doing that anytime soon, but
I would like to see that happen.
Even an expensive project likethis will pay off in dividends
(20:28):
in the long run, but you have tohave that longer view picture.
I just get worried that thefolks in power don't do that
right now.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, maybe the folks in power will come up with a
scheme like we're going to builda rail and Mexico will pay for
it.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath on that one
either.
They'll say that they're goingto do it.
They'll say that Mexico paidfor it, and then there will
still be no rail.
Yeah, exactly.
I also think it's worthpointing out apologies for
getting a little political inthis episode, just because it's,
but frankly, it is all gettingvery political right now,
transit is very politicized.
But you know, I guess first I'llgive kudos to the Biden
(21:03):
administration for making surethat the grants and everything
were signed and approved beforethe transition to the Trump
administration.
Because right now, as we watchhere in Austin, I'm very worried
about Project Connect funding.
I'm very worried about othercities trying to do similar
things.
So glad to see that Chicago wasable to have this approved in
(21:26):
mid-January before the Bidenadministration left.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
You also did make a good point.
We need to blast this story outto every person in Austin and
show them that we're getting areally good deal on Project
Connect.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yes, exactly Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
We're spending $7 billion and actually less than
that because we have a buffer inthere.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
We have 40% contingency $7 billion for I
think it's 10 miles of lightrail to start.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And they very well may well have that buffer in
there too.
They might.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Hopefully they do for the cost there.
But, yeah, definitely worthpointing out.
The negative I'll put on this,though, is like man for how,
like train positive, joe Bidenwas, amtrak, joe, all of this
stuff.
Like I don't want to discountthe, the amount of work that
(22:14):
went into, like studying thecorridor, id programs and all
this sort of stuff andallocating thing, but like it's
there's no teeth to it.
It's gone now.
Like like sure, the studiesexist, but like there will be no
forward progress on any of thatfor the next four years.
And just like after sittinghere watching how abruptly and
(22:35):
aggressively the newadministration has rolled in and
just done all the stuff thatthey wanted to do and I don't
even agree with all the waysthat they're doing it, but like
if they're gonna play that way,democrats need to play that way
also.
And just like start like thenext time they have power, if
they don't seize it, I'm goingto lose my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I'm going to lose my mind at least seize it on
transit funding, please.
But anyway, that is a goodoverview, I think, of the
Chicago red line extension aswell as my political rants.
At the end I'm going to try towrap this up before Doge comes
in and kills our podcast, but Ithink that is a good explanation
of sort of the Chicago red linerants.
(23:12):
At the end I'm going to try towrap this up before Doge comes
in and kills our podcast, but Ithink that is a good explanation
of sort of the Chicago red line, the extension that's happening
down there.
I do think ultimately, this isgoing to be a really good
project for residents in thispart of the city because as it
stands now it does seem liketheir commutes are pretty long
and exhaustive, but this willdefinitely help them get better
connections.
I do think it's better foreconomic development for Chicago
(23:33):
and ultimately, good for thecity of Chicago.
It's just the reality now thatthese projects have very, very
high price tags.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yes, If you're from the Chicago area or you have
thoughts, definitely let us knowin the comments.
We love to see them.
If you want to support the showdirectly, the best way to do so
is on Patreon.
If you become a member onPatreon, you get early episodes.
When we have them ready early,you get access to our Discord.
I will send you stickers in themail I just sent some out this
week actually to some newPatreon folks and some other
(24:01):
benefits.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
You can also check out our brand new merch store,
Get some fun shirts like Chrishas Fun shirts, sweaters, hats I
had to remove the socks for now.
Oh, no, unfortunately.
Oh, but we have a lot of otherreally good products on there.
So please, if you want tosupport the show and you want to
wear some good Transit Tangentswag, check it out.
There will be more designscoming soon.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Awesome.
With all that being said, thankyou all so much for watching
and enjoy the rest of yourTransit.
Tangent Tuesday.
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Karoline Borega married a man of honor – a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband’s career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths—one to his badge, one to his bride—and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 years. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-3 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.