July 8, 2025 • 23 mins
America's oldest subway system is experiencing a renaissance. After facing system-wide speed restrictions and a severe deficit of public trust in early 2023, Boston's MBTA has engineered a remarkable turnaround that's transforming how people move throughout the city and beyond.
Andrew Cassidy, MBTA’s Senior Director of Digital Strategy, joins us to share how transparency, leadership changes, and creative rider engagement (including their podcast Spilling the Tea) are driving a remarkable turnaround. From new tap-to-pay fares to expanded commuter rail and ferry service, MBTA is rewriting the playbook on how legacy transit systems can modernize.
Tune in for a behind-the-scenes look at Boston’s transit—and what it means for the future of American public transportation.
Subscribe to Transit Tangents and support us on Patreon for early access and exclusive content.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
This week, on Transit Tangents, we'll talk to Andrew
Cassidy, the Senior Director ofDigital Strategy for the MBTA.
We'll discuss how the MBTA isregaining the trust of transit
riders, how improvements toprevious issues with slow zones
is impacting the system, as wellas the importance of
communication for the agency.
All of this and more coming upon Transit Tangents.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, thank you, Andrew, for being with us today.
It's a beautiful day in Boston.
We're here on the Commons totalk to you about MBTA and all
of the wonderful things thatMBTA is doing right now.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
It's an honor.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, excited for you to be here.
One of the things that wewanted to talk about that I know
people who've listened to ourshow have been interested in
we've brought this up a coupletimes in previous episodes is
that MBTA has been working onthis sort of modernization
effort and looking to improverail service.
One of those big initiativeswas eliminating slow zones in
the city.
(01:12):
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Sure, a little bit of a history lesson, I suppose.
To start.
So, back in 2022, we wereundergoing all sorts of
maintenance across our system,including an entire line
shutdown of our Orange line,which runs generally north to
south of Boston, and followingall of that, we thought we had
done a lot of great work, a lotof good.
(01:35):
Lo and behold, fast forward toMarch of 2023, and we discover
that certain documentation isn'tavailable and certain work
hadn't been performed, leadingus to implement a global speed
restriction across the entireMBTA system.
I believe we were running atmaybe 5 to 10 miles per hour on
(01:58):
every single system until wewere able to go out there, do
the scans of the rails andreally be able to verify that
our track was indeed safe.
It was a very defeating moment,I think, for a lot of us,
because we thought we had beendoing a lot of work.
You know the MBTA, like manytransit systems, had been played
(02:18):
with a lack of true investmentto keep it going and
unfortunately, this was, youknow, the chickens coming home
to roost.
It was, you know, that lack ofinvestment for so long really is
what led to, unfortunately,just that global state of
disrepair Shortly thereafter.
This is March, we welcome a newadministration at our statehouse
(02:42):
Governor Healy and heradministration, and she appoints
Phil Eng as our new generalmanager, and to say he hit the
ground running would be acomplete understatement, because
he starts in April of that sameyear.
So he's walking in.
He knew what he was signing upfor, but he's walking into,
truthfully, just kind of theprobably the worst we have ever
(03:05):
been, and didn't shy away fromthat challenge, brought with him
a phenomenal team that he hadcollected over his career, many
of whom he had worked with inNew York, whether that be with
the MTA, long Island Railroad,and slowly they started
preparing to plan for what wecall the track improvement
(03:26):
program, which was to remove allslow zones across all lines,
which was, you know, we're at acredibility deficit at this time
, and that's, I think, what wasso difficult too.
It was not only is there workto be done, but you had to be
able to convince the ridingpublic that we had really turned
the ship.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Right, because it had just happened where you had
gone out and done this work andthen come to find out there were
issues with it, of course.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
What's going to be different now?
Okay, new general manager, sowhat?
New team, so what?
And it became this piece, andthis is partially where we
started launching our podcastSpilling the Tea, which was we
realized.
You know, we move forwardtransparency across all of our
communications, primarily onsocial media, but you can only
(04:11):
say so much.
Even you have a 30 tweetTwitter thread, you can only say
so much.
So the podcast allowed us toget the actual individuals, like
general manager Aang and others, and ask them real questions,
not script, not edited to makethem sound good or take out the
bad parts and just have them doa deep dive on where we are and
what we're doing to addressthings, and slowly started again
(04:33):
, concurrently between the workthat was being done and the
communications that were takingplace.
We slowly started to earn backthat trust.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Right, because from afar I mean, people might not
understand all of the littleintricacies of what's going on
and not everybody cares.
But for the ones who do care,who are relying on the system
and who are frustrated wherethings are going, they can go in
and get that furtherinformation.
Can you talk about some of theeffects that so obviously?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It was about December or sowhen all of those slow zones
were officially lifted.
(05:02):
Can in the full length fromBraintree all the way in.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
an average commuter in a day could save up to 24
minutes or something crazy, yeah, massive massive, and I think
this was what was so interestingabout the process was it wasn't
just hey, we need to fix things.
Absolutely, safety is, withoutquestion, our first priority,
but it was how do we go a stepbeyond, how do we improve?
And that was one of the thingswe were able to do on the Red
(05:33):
Line, which was we got thesystem to such a state where we
were actually able to raise ouroperating speeds from 40 to 50
miles an hour.
But I mean the volume of workbased on our old model, it would
be it would take 40 years worthof work, and we did it in 14
months, which is just.
I mean, I have to double checkbecause I'm like I can't go out
(05:56):
with that line if that's notreal.
It sounds great, but 100% andit was just.
You know, it was thataggressive.
We have to make these changesand you know we're out there
telling the story, they're outthere doing the work, but what
you really started noticing waswe actually ended up creating a
campaign of sorts based off ofthe feedback we started getting
from riders.
So so, needless to say, peoplewere none too happy with us.
(06:19):
Uh, march, april of 2023, right?
Uh, last summer, we end up orthat summer, rather, we end up,
um, closing out, uh, part of thered line and during this time
we're able to get to those thosehigh speeds, we start getting
this volume of tweets wherepeople are saying like, oh my
god, it's so fast because we can, we can always tell people, hey
(06:40):
, it's faster, here's the dataright.
But when you get that, yeah,when you get that verification
from fellow riders, that means alot and we had people
complaining like, oh my god, Imissed my stop because I'm not
used to getting there so quickly.
So we just started taking thetweets, reddit posts what have
you?
Putting them up on screens andstation, uh, to the point where
and this is where we really knewthat the trust had had kind of
(07:01):
turned that corner, which wasthe red line, just completed the
orange line.
Hey, can you please come and dous next.
They were asking for adiversion, which you, again, you
don't really get in transit.
So right, because the diversion.
I mean there's a lot ofshort-term pain when you're
doing that, Of course of courseyou have to ride the bus to work
every day for three months orwhatever it may be and you want
to believe that you're goingthrough that short-term pain for
(07:21):
a benefit.
And when you have thatverification from your fellow
riders that you're saving timeand you can sleep in a little
bit later, hit the snooze buttonand still get to work on time,
it's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, I'd love to hear that.
I'd love to hear thecollaboration between what
you're doing and telling thestory versus what sort of
maintenance crews are doing tofix the zones and then also
getting that feedback from theriders, because I think a lot of
transit agencies since thepandemic have really struggled
to convince riders to come backand it is improving in a lot of
systems.
We've talked about severalsystems that are actually
showing better ridership thanpre-pandemic.
But now that you have sort ofturned this corner with the
(07:53):
trust, have you seen anoticeable impact on the
ridership since coming back fromthe pandemic?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah.
So our commuter rail ridershipI think might be the strongest
comeback of any commuter railservice in the country.
I know it was 90 somethingpercent, with weekends being
exceeding, far exceeding ahundred percent.
So there's been a, you know, abit of a shift.
There is the reality of workfrom home environment where
(08:20):
instead of seeing that standard9 to 5 am and pm shift, we're
seeing a little bit more of asteady throughout the day.
Like many other systems you'reseeing Tuesday through Thursday
as kind of the primary piece,but we have still seen that
increase.
We've also, you know, in thattime added ferry service to
communities that previously didnot have that.
(08:40):
So that's another kind ofinflux and it's really just
trying to find, you know,through all the different modes
that the MBTA offers and itbeing the rarity that it offers
commuter rail, subway, light andheavy rail, bus and ferry all
under one umbrella versusseparate groups.
You know we're trying to figureout what cocktail works best to
get people on whatever modeworks for them, and that maybe
(09:02):
that's taking a ferry, thattakes maybe a little bit longer,
but you really love thatcommute and seeing potentially
some whales on your way into thecity.
Or if it's, you know, hey, Idon't want to have to worry
about schedules, I want to geton the subway.
Or you know what, maybe I, Ifit's.
You know, hey, I don't want tohave to worry about schedules, I
want to get on the subway.
Or you know what?
Maybe I've moved further out ofthe city, which a lot of people
did, and they're the ones nowhopping on commuter rail to come
in that way.
(09:27):
So it's really again just tryingto figure that out and making
sure that our service remainsthat level of reliability which
is so important, because if youdon't have that, then people can
very easily shy away.
So we've been doing a lot oftrying to reintroduce people to
a transit system that maybe letthem down in the past, but right
now is their best option,because Boston has, I think, the
fourth worst traffic in thecountry, and if you've driven at
all here, you've experiencedthat.
(09:48):
So you know that's kind of whatwe're up against.
So for us it's an easy sell it.
So you know that's kind of whatwe're up against, so for us
it's an easy sell.
It's like, don't deal with that, please.
Please, let us get behind thewheel, listen to your favorite
podcast or whatever, and let usdo the driving for you.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And I'm glad you mentioned all of the transit
authorities and sort of themodes under one umbrella,
because something that I thinkis a big deal here, that you
don't see necessarily in allcities in the country, is that
the fares seem to kind of workacross most of the system Um and
it.
The system has been modernizedin that effect too, if you want
to speak a little bit to themodernization Sure.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Absolutely, uh, so I believe that was last summer.
Uh, we were able to, to welcome, uh, what we call tap to ride,
which is the ability to, youknow, use your phone, use your
smartwatch, your tappable creditcard, to be able to pay, which
works really well, especiallyfor more infrequent riders.
Maybe people who, againpre-pandemic, might have got
that weekly pass, monthly pass,maybe they're coming in the
(10:43):
office a little less, so itdoesn't quite make the same
financial sense.
They don't have to deal with avending machine, they can just
use what they have.
It's really great for tourists.
They don't have to understandnew fare media and all different
pieces.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Trying to pay for a bus or a train can be
intimidating for people whodon't use it all the time, and
we've all been there.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You go to a city you're like is there an app?
Is there a fare vending machine?
Usually it's a bus.
So you're like I don't want tohold everyone up.
Or in some cases, unfortunately, it's like do fantastic,
(11:18):
because you know it takes workto implement these things.
But for I mean, every time I'mgoing through one of our fare
gates there's always somebodytapping.
So it's that nice user-friendlyexperience.
You know you can focus ongetting to your destination
versus you know what button do Itap?
What's a link pass?
What's a link pass?
What's a flex, this?
And that way you can just kindof just tap, go ride.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Nice, I'm curious.
So obviously the tap to pay isnew.
There's also been some in thelast few years, extensions to
the green line that we've seenand whatnot.
Are there any kind of?
It doesn't have to necessarilybe an extension, but
modernization efforts and thingsthat are kind of coming up next
that you guys are gearing upfor.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I mean all sorts of stuff.
It's a very exciting time and,again, this is where it's like,
you know, we went from the we'resorry, we're trying approach to
like you got to get on boardbecause there's so much
happening.
We opened the Green Lineextension, welcoming, you know,
new cities into our system,which is massive.
New cities into our system,which is massive.
(12:17):
So just creating all these newtravel options for people who
lived otherwise might have hadto take a bus and then shift
onto a different line.
We recently opened South CoastRail, which is an extension of
our commuter rail service goingdown south all the way down to
Fall River.
So that's welcoming, again,additional communities that can
now ditch the car keys and, youknow, read a book, whatever, hop
on board and be able to gethere.
Beyond that, a lot of it.
(12:38):
I don't know if it's so muchsystem expansion.
Biggest thing in that regardwould probably be the ferries.
Uh, we have added several newferry lines.
We recently also just split one.
We used to have to get onebetween, uh, winthrop, quincy
and boston.
We split that.
So just win's, just WinthropBoston, quincy, boston, making
it a lot more attractive tothose riders as well.
We're working on moving forwardwith the regional rail.
(12:59):
We're trying to get to a pointwhere we implement our battery
electric locomotives.
We're going to be able to haveclean, more frequent service.
We're going to be starting thatoff on one line, but slowly
growing service.
We're going to be starting thatoff on one line, but slowly
growing.
And the nice thing with that isby going with the battery
electric option.
Initially a lot of people wereconcerned like, oh, you're not
(13:19):
doing catenary, that means thatyou're not really taking this
seriously.
Right?
This allows us to get electrictrains out on those same rails
before.
So basically, if there isexisting catenary or where we
put existing catenary, it'll'llcharge, right, but we don't have
to wait to run catenary on allthe hundreds of miles of the
commuter rail.
Instead, people can just hop onand we can start charging and
(13:42):
riding, and again, it's clean.
It's more frequent 30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'm glad you brought that up because I immediately
was like.
I've definitely seen a bunch ofpeople online complaining about
that at one point Exactly.
And even where.
So we live in Austin, texas,and we don't have much as far as
rail is concerned at this point.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Hopefully, soon it's coming.
Yes, CapNature, yeah, there.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Project Connect yes.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Well, hopefully it continues to cross the hurdles
that it's going through.
But I know there they've beentrying to roll out electric
buses and it's kind of beendelayed a bit and we still have
the electric buses, but electricbuses.
But the issue was with thecharging infrastructure not
being in in time, being able tomaintain the levels of
frequencies and service with theelectric buses.
We need to make sure thefrequencies can remain before
trying to transfer over, so I'mglad you brought that up.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, and we're similarly switching over to
electric buses.
We had, I believe, a statemandate.
I think we're aiming for 2030.
Then we've had some snags hereand there.
We have already taken deliveryof several of them and you know,
part of it's also technology.
When people were looking to dothis, there was a concern,
especially in Boston coldweather and batteries.
If you're on your cell phone inBoston and it's really cold out
(14:44):
, guess what?
Your battery will die.
We don't have that issue, yeahexactly, but you might be
drawing more, yeah, you might bedrawing more exactly more
energy for the air conditioning.
So there are all thesedifferent hurdles that I think a
lot of people don't necessarilyunderstand, but we're
definitely progressing andmoving forward in that direction
, which is great.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Do you want to?
Yeah, no, I was just saying I'dlove to hear this about the
modernization, because we'resitting in a backdrop of the
city that has the first subway.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Right here, right here 1897.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, so just the historical context and then
hearing about modernization isjust very impressive.
It's a great story.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
It is a challenge too .
You know.
It's awesome being first.
We're very proud of that.
But you know, like manyrealities of the city of Boston,
just like our streets weredesigned for pedestrian traffic
and different vehicles, they allhave their own dynamic envelope
and different length ofplatforms because, basically,
(15:51):
tunnels were dug over 100 yearsago and we're still using a lot
of that.
So we also run single track forthe most part, which means that
we don't have that redundancylike a newer system, like New
York does have.
So there are the challengesthat come along with it, but, uh
, we have a lot of reallycreative individuals who are
(16:12):
being innovative in how we dealwith things.
So, like single tracking, wherebefore we used to shut down a
line, we now go around it.
So you're not, you're nothaving to get on a shuttle when
there's a diversion happening,you're just kind of going around
it.
You might be a little bitdelayed, but it makes it at
least a one seat ride, which isso important for for people.
We just try to, you know,remove any barrier we can during
that rider experience.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's awesome.
Um, I wanted to ask you aboutthe podcast that you were also
the host of uh MBTA spilling thetea.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
It is a great name.
It was right there.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, um, how did that, how did that come about,
and what is your experience beenwith with this podcast?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Sure.
So you know, it really startedback in 2019 when I first joined
the MBTA and again, we were ata deficit of trust.
We weren't in great shape thenthis is even before the global
speed restrictions and we knewwe had to do a better job of
just telling the truth, justletting riders know what's going
on, even if it's bad.
(17:09):
So we started doing that.
We started posting on socialmedia, letting people you know a
little bit, you know pullingback the curtain a bit,
providing videos proving topeople that we're actually doing
work at diversions, when wesaid we were, but we knew we
wanted that more long-formcontent.
Originally, we plan, we plannedto go out in 2020.
Something else happened thatyear, so we decided to kind of
(17:30):
shelve it.
And when the global speedrestrictions went into place,
the new general manager came onboard.
We're like what if we broughtthis back?
What if we brought this back?
So we actually recorded it.
I believe that first summerthat he was here and we launched
, I believe early that fall.
And again it we launched, Ibelieve early that fall, uh, and
again it was just hey, let'syou know, let's start up like
get to know Phil, let's uh,understand what the what the
(17:52):
real challenges are have thosefollow-up questions, cause again
not scripted um, and be able toget that authenticity.
And you know we, we use, youknow, our, our social listening.
Uh, we use customer feedbackforms to know what they want.
So obviously we welcome peopleto email us if they have
something they want to hearabout in a future episode.
But we're not shooting in thedark either.
(18:13):
We know we had a lot ofdiversions.
How do you plan for a diversion?
What's going on behind thescenes?
What are you doing to make surethat the shuttles are running
and that there's adequateservice to get people where they
need to go, that the shuttlesare running and that there's
adequate service to get peoplewhere they need to go?
And you know there are allthese people who are never in
the spotlight, who havefascinating jobs and just like
absolute mountains of knowledge.
The people I call when we're,you know, when we're drafting or
(18:35):
creating videos or anything ofthat nature, and I said, hey,
would you come on and would youtalk?
And I mean people just reallyvalue that authenticity.
It's like these are our realchallenges.
We have to work with all thedifferent municipalities.
So you know, I lived in Miamifor a little while.
And while you're down there,when you're working with, you're
not really dealing with likeall the thousands of towns.
(18:56):
You're working with a countywhich is like dozens and dozens
of towns in one area here, everysingle municipality.
So it's not just like hey,we're running a diversion, it
single municipality.
So it's not just like hey, we'rerunning a diversion.
It's like, okay, we have tocall Boston, we have to call
Chelsea, we have to call Revere,we have to call all the way up,
just to make sure that you knowwe're being cognizant of what's
going on, because they havetheir own things going on.
Actually, we're shutting downthe street that you normally use
for shuttles today, and it justagain.
(19:26):
It's really easy to be like,wow, no one's considering me and
it's a show.
We really are.
You know, unfortunately wecan't make it pain free, but we
can make it.
We can reduce as much of thatas possible.
But we've we've brought in alldifferent types of guests.
We've again, we've had thegeneral manager, we have the
secretary of transportationgeneral manager, we have the
(19:49):
secretary of transportation.
But we've also had a localTikTok sensation.
His name is Jed, if you havenot watched him.
I just finished a trip toConnecticut and I came back to.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Boston for two hours before my flight out to do the
one thing that I've missed thatsound.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
He was originally a Boston guy.
Now he switched over to talkingabout Caltrans but he became a
transit advocate where he wouldpoke fun at us but he would also
say, like this is why the MBTAneeds support.
And we have had, you know,actual nine to five transit
advocates on the show as well,and they have their.
You know, as I like to tellthem, it's like you know, we're
two sides of the same transittoken.
(20:32):
You know, it's like we want thesame thing and we got to hold
each other accountable to makesure we get there.
But it's been a fascinating,fascinating experience.
You know, we talk aboutaccessibility on the system.
We talk about just likehistorical changes.
We talk about ferries, we talkabout the future of commuter
rail and battery, electric andexpansion.
So it's really just likeanything and everything.
(20:53):
But it's to show people there'sa lot of really smart, capable
people who are working wellbeyond 5 o'clock to make sure
this stuff happens.
You know, most of our daysstart well before and well after
and bleed into the weekends.
But we all fundamentallybelieve in what we do.
We believe in the good ofpublic transportation and we
want to be able to deliver thebest public transportation we
(21:14):
can, because we know how muchthe city, the region, really
relies on us.
So that's really how we'veutilized that podcast, you know.
Again, if you're interested inBoston transportation,
definitely check out.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Spilling the Tea Available wherever you get your
podcasts.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
But it is a fascinating thing.
I thoroughly enjoy doing itbecause I learn, and that's
what's so fun for me.
I walk in again.
I don't know what the otherperson is going to say.
I hope they know what they'regoing to say, but I ask those
questions and you know I'm like,wow, okay, this makes a lot
more sense.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
This is why this hasn't been done yet, because
these are the issues.
I think that's one of thereasons that we really like
doing this, because we get totalk to people who are in the
middle of it.
They're really passionate aboutit and it's just fun to see
that passion come out.
I think one of our favoriteepisodes has been the Casey
streetcar, where we got to meettheir marketing and operations
team and just seeing theirpassion for their community.
It was amazing to get that andsame for you like listening to
(22:10):
you talk about being able totell those stories.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's awesome being able to share that with the
public.
And we're all riders, like 99%.
If you're experiencing an issue, I'm probably experiencing an
issue.
So we have that firsthandknowledge.
We know the pain points.
We're not just, like you know,up on high in an ivory tower
driving to work.
(22:32):
Every day.
We go through that process andit's great because the more
people you have, the moredifferent routes they take, so
the more awareness you get ofthat system.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Awesome, andrew.
Thank you so much for yourinsight and playing host to us
in this beautiful city, and wereally appreciate you being with
us today.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
It was my pleasure.
Please enjoy Boston.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Thank you.
Thanks for watching thisepisode of Transit Tangents.
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(23:06):
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Without further ado.
Thank you for watching andenjoy the rest of your Transit
Tangents Tuesday.
This week, on Transit Tangents, we'll talk to Andrew
Cassidy, the Senior Director ofDigital Strategy for the MBTA.
We'll discuss how the MBTA isregaining the trust of transit
riders, how improvements toprevious issues with slow zones
is impacting the system, as wellas the importance of
communication for the agency.
All of this and more coming upon Transit Tangents.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, thank you, Andrew, for being with us today.
It's a beautiful day in Boston.
We're here on the Commons totalk to you about MBTA and all
of the wonderful things thatMBTA is doing right now.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
It's an honor.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, excited for you to be here.
One of the things that wewanted to talk about that I know
people who've listened to ourshow have been interested in
we've brought this up a coupletimes in previous episodes is
that MBTA has been working onthis sort of modernization
effort and looking to improverail service.
One of those big initiativeswas eliminating slow zones in
the city.
(01:12):
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Sure, a little bit of a history lesson, I suppose.
To start.
So, back in 2022, we wereundergoing all sorts of
maintenance across our system,including an entire line
shutdown of our Orange line,which runs generally north to
south of Boston, and followingall of that, we thought we had
done a lot of great work, a lotof good.
(01:35):
Lo and behold, fast forward toMarch of 2023, and we discover
that certain documentation isn'tavailable and certain work
hadn't been performed, leadingus to implement a global speed
restriction across the entireMBTA system.
I believe we were running atmaybe 5 to 10 miles per hour on
(01:58):
every single system until wewere able to go out there, do
the scans of the rails andreally be able to verify that
our track was indeed safe.
It was a very defeating moment,I think, for a lot of us,
because we thought we had beendoing a lot of work.
You know the MBTA, like manytransit systems, had been played
(02:18):
with a lack of true investmentto keep it going and
unfortunately, this was, youknow, the chickens coming home
to roost.
It was, you know, that lack ofinvestment for so long really is
what led to, unfortunately,just that global state of
disrepair Shortly thereafter.
This is March, we welcome a newadministration at our statehouse
(02:42):
Governor Healy and heradministration, and she appoints
Phil Eng as our new generalmanager, and to say he hit the
ground running would be acomplete understatement, because
he starts in April of that sameyear.
So he's walking in.
He knew what he was signing upfor, but he's walking into,
truthfully, just kind of theprobably the worst we have ever
(03:05):
been, and didn't shy away fromthat challenge, brought with him
a phenomenal team that he hadcollected over his career, many
of whom he had worked with inNew York, whether that be with
the MTA, long Island Railroad,and slowly they started
preparing to plan for what wecall the track improvement
(03:26):
program, which was to remove allslow zones across all lines,
which was, you know, we're at acredibility deficit at this time
, and that's, I think, what wasso difficult too.
It was not only is there workto be done, but you had to be
able to convince the ridingpublic that we had really turned
the ship.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Right, because it had just happened where you had
gone out and done this work andthen come to find out there were
issues with it, of course.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
What's going to be different now?
Okay, new general manager, sowhat?
New team, so what?
And it became this piece, andthis is partially where we
started launching our podcastSpilling the Tea, which was we
realized.
You know, we move forwardtransparency across all of our
communications, primarily onsocial media, but you can only
(04:11):
say so much.
Even you have a 30 tweetTwitter thread, you can only say
so much.
So the podcast allowed us toget the actual individuals, like
general manager Aang and others, and ask them real questions,
not script, not edited to makethem sound good or take out the
bad parts and just have them doa deep dive on where we are and
what we're doing to addressthings, and slowly started again
(04:33):
, concurrently between the workthat was being done and the
communications that were takingplace.
We slowly started to earn backthat trust.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Right, because from afar I mean, people might not
understand all of the littleintricacies of what's going on
and not everybody cares.
But for the ones who do care,who are relying on the system
and who are frustrated wherethings are going, they can go in
and get that furtherinformation.
Can you talk about some of theeffects that so obviously?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It was about December or sowhen all of those slow zones
were officially lifted.
(05:02):
Can in the full length fromBraintree all the way in.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
an average commuter in a day could save up to 24
minutes or something crazy, yeah, massive massive, and I think
this was what was so interestingabout the process was it wasn't
just hey, we need to fix things.
Absolutely, safety is, withoutquestion, our first priority,
but it was how do we go a stepbeyond, how do we improve?
And that was one of the thingswe were able to do on the Red
(05:33):
Line, which was we got thesystem to such a state where we
were actually able to raise ouroperating speeds from 40 to 50
miles an hour.
But I mean the volume of workbased on our old model, it would
be it would take 40 years worthof work, and we did it in 14
months, which is just.
I mean, I have to double checkbecause I'm like I can't go out
(05:56):
with that line if that's notreal.
It sounds great, but 100% andit was just.
You know, it was thataggressive.
We have to make these changesand you know we're out there
telling the story, they're outthere doing the work, but what
you really started noticing waswe actually ended up creating a
campaign of sorts based off ofthe feedback we started getting
from riders.
So so, needless to say, peoplewere none too happy with us.
(06:19):
Uh, march, april of 2023, right?
Uh, last summer, we end up orthat summer, rather, we end up,
um, closing out, uh, part of thered line and during this time
we're able to get to those thosehigh speeds, we start getting
this volume of tweets wherepeople are saying like, oh my
god, it's so fast because we can, we can always tell people, hey
(06:40):
, it's faster, here's the dataright.
But when you get that, yeah,when you get that verification
from fellow riders, that means alot and we had people
complaining like, oh my god, Imissed my stop because I'm not
used to getting there so quickly.
So we just started taking thetweets, reddit posts what have
you?
Putting them up on screens andstation, uh, to the point where
and this is where we really knewthat the trust had had kind of
(07:01):
turned that corner, which wasthe red line, just completed the
orange line.
Hey, can you please come and dous next.
They were asking for adiversion, which you, again, you
don't really get in transit.
So right, because the diversion.
I mean there's a lot ofshort-term pain when you're
doing that, Of course of courseyou have to ride the bus to work
every day for three months orwhatever it may be and you want
to believe that you're goingthrough that short-term pain for
(07:21):
a benefit.
And when you have thatverification from your fellow
riders that you're saving timeand you can sleep in a little
bit later, hit the snooze buttonand still get to work on time,
it's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, I'd love to hear that.
I'd love to hear thecollaboration between what
you're doing and telling thestory versus what sort of
maintenance crews are doing tofix the zones and then also
getting that feedback from theriders, because I think a lot of
transit agencies since thepandemic have really struggled
to convince riders to come backand it is improving in a lot of
systems.
We've talked about severalsystems that are actually
showing better ridership thanpre-pandemic.
But now that you have sort ofturned this corner with the
(07:53):
trust, have you seen anoticeable impact on the
ridership since coming back fromthe pandemic?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah.
So our commuter rail ridershipI think might be the strongest
comeback of any commuter railservice in the country.
I know it was 90 somethingpercent, with weekends being
exceeding, far exceeding ahundred percent.
So there's been a, you know, abit of a shift.
There is the reality of workfrom home environment where
(08:20):
instead of seeing that standard9 to 5 am and pm shift, we're
seeing a little bit more of asteady throughout the day.
Like many other systems you'reseeing Tuesday through Thursday
as kind of the primary piece,but we have still seen that
increase.
We've also, you know, in thattime added ferry service to
communities that previously didnot have that.
(08:40):
So that's another kind ofinflux and it's really just
trying to find, you know,through all the different modes
that the MBTA offers and itbeing the rarity that it offers
commuter rail, subway, light andheavy rail, bus and ferry all
under one umbrella versusseparate groups.
You know we're trying to figureout what cocktail works best to
get people on whatever modeworks for them, and that maybe
(09:02):
that's taking a ferry, thattakes maybe a little bit longer,
but you really love thatcommute and seeing potentially
some whales on your way into thecity.
Or if it's, you know, hey, Idon't want to have to worry
about schedules, I want to geton the subway.
Or you know what, maybe I, Ifit's.
You know, hey, I don't want tohave to worry about schedules, I
want to get on the subway.
Or you know what?
Maybe I've moved further out ofthe city, which a lot of people
did, and they're the ones nowhopping on commuter rail to come
in that way.
(09:27):
So it's really again just tryingto figure that out and making
sure that our service remainsthat level of reliability which
is so important, because if youdon't have that, then people can
very easily shy away.
So we've been doing a lot oftrying to reintroduce people to
a transit system that maybe letthem down in the past, but right
now is their best option,because Boston has, I think, the
fourth worst traffic in thecountry, and if you've driven at
all here, you've experiencedthat.
(09:48):
So you know that's kind of whatwe're up against.
So for us it's an easy sell it.
So you know that's kind of whatwe're up against, so for us
it's an easy sell.
It's like, don't deal with that, please.
Please, let us get behind thewheel, listen to your favorite
podcast or whatever, and let usdo the driving for you.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And I'm glad you mentioned all of the transit
authorities and sort of themodes under one umbrella,
because something that I thinkis a big deal here, that you
don't see necessarily in allcities in the country, is that
the fares seem to kind of workacross most of the system Um and
it.
The system has been modernizedin that effect too, if you want
to speak a little bit to themodernization Sure.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Absolutely, uh, so I believe that was last summer.
Uh, we were able to, to welcome, uh, what we call tap to ride,
which is the ability to, youknow, use your phone, use your
smartwatch, your tappable creditcard, to be able to pay, which
works really well, especiallyfor more infrequent riders.
Maybe people who, againpre-pandemic, might have got
that weekly pass, monthly pass,maybe they're coming in the
(10:43):
office a little less, so itdoesn't quite make the same
financial sense.
They don't have to deal with avending machine, they can just
use what they have.
It's really great for tourists.
They don't have to understandnew fare media and all different
pieces.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Trying to pay for a bus or a train can be
intimidating for people whodon't use it all the time, and
we've all been there.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You go to a city you're like is there an app?
Is there a fare vending machine?
Usually it's a bus.
So you're like I don't want tohold everyone up.
Or in some cases, unfortunately, it's like do fantastic,
(11:18):
because you know it takes workto implement these things.
But for I mean, every time I'mgoing through one of our fare
gates there's always somebodytapping.
So it's that nice user-friendlyexperience.
You know you can focus ongetting to your destination
versus you know what button do Itap?
What's a link pass?
What's a link pass?
What's a flex, this?
And that way you can just kindof just tap, go ride.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Nice, I'm curious.
So obviously the tap to pay isnew.
There's also been some in thelast few years, extensions to
the green line that we've seenand whatnot.
Are there any kind of?
It doesn't have to necessarilybe an extension, but
modernization efforts and thingsthat are kind of coming up next
that you guys are gearing upfor.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I mean all sorts of stuff.
It's a very exciting time and,again, this is where it's like,
you know, we went from the we'resorry, we're trying approach to
like you got to get on boardbecause there's so much
happening.
We opened the Green Lineextension, welcoming, you know,
new cities into our system,which is massive.
New cities into our system,which is massive.
(12:17):
So just creating all these newtravel options for people who
lived otherwise might have hadto take a bus and then shift
onto a different line.
We recently opened South CoastRail, which is an extension of
our commuter rail service goingdown south all the way down to
Fall River.
So that's welcoming, again,additional communities that can
now ditch the car keys and, youknow, read a book, whatever, hop
on board and be able to gethere.
Beyond that, a lot of it.
(12:38):
I don't know if it's so muchsystem expansion.
Biggest thing in that regardwould probably be the ferries.
Uh, we have added several newferry lines.
We recently also just split one.
We used to have to get onebetween, uh, winthrop, quincy
and boston.
We split that.
So just win's, just WinthropBoston, quincy, boston, making
it a lot more attractive tothose riders as well.
We're working on moving forwardwith the regional rail.
(12:59):
We're trying to get to a pointwhere we implement our battery
electric locomotives.
We're going to be able to haveclean, more frequent service.
We're going to be starting thatoff on one line, but slowly
growing service.
We're going to be starting thatoff on one line, but slowly
growing.
And the nice thing with that isby going with the battery
electric option.
Initially a lot of people wereconcerned like, oh, you're not
(13:19):
doing catenary, that means thatyou're not really taking this
seriously.
Right?
This allows us to get electrictrains out on those same rails
before.
So basically, if there isexisting catenary or where we
put existing catenary, it'll'llcharge, right, but we don't have
to wait to run catenary on allthe hundreds of miles of the
commuter rail.
Instead, people can just hop onand we can start charging and
(13:42):
riding, and again, it's clean.
It's more frequent 30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'm glad you brought that up because I immediately
was like.
I've definitely seen a bunch ofpeople online complaining about
that at one point Exactly.
And even where.
So we live in Austin, texas,and we don't have much as far as
rail is concerned at this point.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Hopefully, soon it's coming.
Yes, CapNature, yeah, there.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Project Connect yes.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Well, hopefully it continues to cross the hurdles
that it's going through.
But I know there they've beentrying to roll out electric
buses and it's kind of beendelayed a bit and we still have
the electric buses, but electricbuses.
But the issue was with thecharging infrastructure not
being in in time, being able tomaintain the levels of
frequencies and service with theelectric buses.
We need to make sure thefrequencies can remain before
trying to transfer over, so I'mglad you brought that up.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, and we're similarly switching over to
electric buses.
We had, I believe, a statemandate.
I think we're aiming for 2030.
Then we've had some snags hereand there.
We have already taken deliveryof several of them and you know,
part of it's also technology.
When people were looking to dothis, there was a concern,
especially in Boston coldweather and batteries.
If you're on your cell phone inBoston and it's really cold out
(14:44):
, guess what?
Your battery will die.
We don't have that issue, yeahexactly, but you might be
drawing more, yeah, you might bedrawing more exactly more
energy for the air conditioning.
So there are all thesedifferent hurdles that I think a
lot of people don't necessarilyunderstand, but we're
definitely progressing andmoving forward in that direction
, which is great.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Do you want to?
Yeah, no, I was just saying I'dlove to hear this about the
modernization, because we'resitting in a backdrop of the
city that has the first subway.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Right here, right here 1897.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, so just the historical context and then
hearing about modernization isjust very impressive.
It's a great story.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
It is a challenge too .
You know.
It's awesome being first.
We're very proud of that.
But you know, like manyrealities of the city of Boston,
just like our streets weredesigned for pedestrian traffic
and different vehicles, they allhave their own dynamic envelope
and different length ofplatforms because, basically,
(15:51):
tunnels were dug over 100 yearsago and we're still using a lot
of that.
So we also run single track forthe most part, which means that
we don't have that redundancylike a newer system, like New
York does have.
So there are the challengesthat come along with it, but, uh
, we have a lot of reallycreative individuals who are
(16:12):
being innovative in how we dealwith things.
So, like single tracking, wherebefore we used to shut down a
line, we now go around it.
So you're not, you're nothaving to get on a shuttle when
there's a diversion happening,you're just kind of going around
it.
You might be a little bitdelayed, but it makes it at
least a one seat ride, which isso important for for people.
We just try to, you know,remove any barrier we can during
that rider experience.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's awesome.
Um, I wanted to ask you aboutthe podcast that you were also
the host of uh MBTA spilling thetea.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
It is a great name.
It was right there.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, um, how did that, how did that come about,
and what is your experience beenwith with this podcast?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Sure.
So you know, it really startedback in 2019 when I first joined
the MBTA and again, we were ata deficit of trust.
We weren't in great shape thenthis is even before the global
speed restrictions and we knewwe had to do a better job of
just telling the truth, justletting riders know what's going
on, even if it's bad.
(17:09):
So we started doing that.
We started posting on socialmedia, letting people you know a
little bit, you know pullingback the curtain a bit,
providing videos proving topeople that we're actually doing
work at diversions, when wesaid we were, but we knew we
wanted that more long-formcontent.
Originally, we plan, we plannedto go out in 2020.
Something else happened thatyear, so we decided to kind of
(17:30):
shelve it.
And when the global speedrestrictions went into place,
the new general manager came onboard.
We're like what if we broughtthis back?
What if we brought this back?
So we actually recorded it.
I believe that first summerthat he was here and we launched
, I believe early that fall.
And again it we launched, Ibelieve early that fall, uh, and
again it was just hey, let'syou know, let's start up like
get to know Phil, let's uh,understand what the what the
(17:52):
real challenges are have thosefollow-up questions, cause again
not scripted um, and be able toget that authenticity.
And you know we, we use, youknow, our, our social listening.
Uh, we use customer feedbackforms to know what they want.
So obviously we welcome peopleto email us if they have
something they want to hearabout in a future episode.
But we're not shooting in thedark either.
(18:13):
We know we had a lot ofdiversions.
How do you plan for a diversion?
What's going on behind thescenes?
What are you doing to make surethat the shuttles are running
and that there's adequateservice to get people where they
need to go, that the shuttlesare running and that there's
adequate service to get peoplewhere they need to go?
And you know there are allthese people who are never in
the spotlight, who havefascinating jobs and just like
absolute mountains of knowledge.
The people I call when we're,you know, when we're drafting or
(18:35):
creating videos or anything ofthat nature, and I said, hey,
would you come on and would youtalk?
And I mean people just reallyvalue that authenticity.
It's like these are our realchallenges.
We have to work with all thedifferent municipalities.
So you know, I lived in Miamifor a little while.
And while you're down there,when you're working with, you're
not really dealing with likeall the thousands of towns.
(18:56):
You're working with a countywhich is like dozens and dozens
of towns in one area here, everysingle municipality.
So it's not just like hey,we're running a diversion, it
single municipality.
So it's not just like hey, we'rerunning a diversion.
It's like, okay, we have tocall Boston, we have to call
Chelsea, we have to call Revere,we have to call all the way up,
just to make sure that you knowwe're being cognizant of what's
going on, because they havetheir own things going on.
Actually, we're shutting downthe street that you normally use
for shuttles today, and it justagain.
(19:26):
It's really easy to be like,wow, no one's considering me and
it's a show.
We really are.
You know, unfortunately wecan't make it pain free, but we
can make it.
We can reduce as much of thatas possible.
But we've we've brought in alldifferent types of guests.
We've again, we've had thegeneral manager, we have the
secretary of transportationgeneral manager, we have the
(19:49):
secretary of transportation.
But we've also had a localTikTok sensation.
His name is Jed, if you havenot watched him.
I just finished a trip toConnecticut and I came back to.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Boston for two hours before my flight out to do the
one thing that I've missed thatsound.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
He was originally a Boston guy.
Now he switched over to talkingabout Caltrans but he became a
transit advocate where he wouldpoke fun at us but he would also
say, like this is why the MBTAneeds support.
And we have had, you know,actual nine to five transit
advocates on the show as well,and they have their.
You know, as I like to tellthem, it's like you know, we're
two sides of the same transittoken.
(20:32):
You know, it's like we want thesame thing and we got to hold
each other accountable to makesure we get there.
But it's been a fascinating,fascinating experience.
You know, we talk aboutaccessibility on the system.
We talk about just likehistorical changes.
We talk about ferries, we talkabout the future of commuter
rail and battery, electric andexpansion.
So it's really just likeanything and everything.
(20:53):
But it's to show people there'sa lot of really smart, capable
people who are working wellbeyond 5 o'clock to make sure
this stuff happens.
You know, most of our daysstart well before and well after
and bleed into the weekends.
But we all fundamentallybelieve in what we do.
We believe in the good ofpublic transportation and we
want to be able to deliver thebest public transportation we
(21:14):
can, because we know how muchthe city, the region, really
relies on us.
So that's really how we'veutilized that podcast, you know.
Again, if you're interested inBoston transportation,
definitely check out.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Spilling the Tea Available wherever you get your
podcasts.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
But it is a fascinating thing.
I thoroughly enjoy doing itbecause I learn, and that's
what's so fun for me.
I walk in again.
I don't know what the otherperson is going to say.
I hope they know what they'regoing to say, but I ask those
questions and you know I'm like,wow, okay, this makes a lot
more sense.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
This is why this hasn't been done yet, because
these are the issues.
I think that's one of thereasons that we really like
doing this, because we get totalk to people who are in the
middle of it.
They're really passionate aboutit and it's just fun to see
that passion come out.
I think one of our favoriteepisodes has been the Casey
streetcar, where we got to meettheir marketing and operations
team and just seeing theirpassion for their community.
It was amazing to get that andsame for you like listening to
(22:10):
you talk about being able totell those stories.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's awesome being able to share that with the
public.
And we're all riders, like 99%.
If you're experiencing an issue, I'm probably experiencing an
issue.
So we have that firsthandknowledge.
We know the pain points.
We're not just, like you know,up on high in an ivory tower
driving to work.
(22:32):
Every day.
We go through that process andit's great because the more
people you have, the moredifferent routes they take, so
the more awareness you get ofthat system.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Awesome, andrew.
Thank you so much for yourinsight and playing host to us
in this beautiful city, and wereally appreciate you being with
us today.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
It was my pleasure.
Please enjoy Boston.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Thank you.
Thanks for watching thisepisode of Transit Tangents.
If you have any questions orwant to leave a comment, please
consider doing so down below.
If you haven't hit the likebutton already, please do that
as well.
It helps us out quite a bit Ifyou have not subscribed on
Patreon.
This episode actually came outa few days early there.
We're going to try to continueto keep that up.
It's also another great way tosupport the show.
(23:06):
You can also check out ourmerch store, linked down below,
Without further ado.
Thank you for watching andenjoy the rest of your Transit
Tangents Tuesday.
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