February 4, 2025 • 25 mins
The Purple Line represents Maryland’s significant investment in public transit, aiming to connect diverse suburban communities to the greater DC metro area. The episode covers its route, potential ridership, cost issues, and broader implications for urban transit in the U.S.
• Overview of the Purple Line life and vision from Bethesda to New Carrollton
• Importance of transit-oriented development along the route
• Current ridership statistics and future projections
• Financial challenges and discussions around cost overruns
• Impact of the Purple Line on commuting trends post-COVID
• Potential for urban sprawl mitigation through effective public transport
• Exploration of public-private partnerships and their implications
• Fare integration challenges between different systems
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Doors are closing.
Public transit that's my way toroll On the metro.
I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind, daily grind.
Public transit it's the rhythmof my life.
This week we dive into thePurple Line, the state of
Maryland's plan to build a16-mile light rail connecting
(00:23):
several DC suburbs along the way.
Despite delays and costoverruns, the system is
scheduled to open in 2027.
All of this and more coming upon Transit Tangents.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of
Transit Tangents.
My name is Chris and I'm Lewis,and today we are looking at a
system just outside of DC calledthe Purple Line.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, and we had the opportunity to actually travel
to Washington DC about a weekago.
It'll be a little bit more thanthat when this comes out, but
we have more episodes coming onthe topic, don't worry.
But we also checked out some ofthe recent progress on the
Purple Line.
Unfortunately, we were not ableto put this project in our
(01:05):
projects to look forward to in2025, but it is coming soon
right now, slated to open in2027.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
When we got out there , we were actually gonna do this
episode on site at one of thestations that's currently being
built.
However, I think on that day itwas- about 27 degrees and very
windy and snow, blowing throughHalf a foot of snow, my hands
were freezing off.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
When we get to the Silver Spring Station section
there'll be some actual B-rollthat we took on the ground and I
sacrificed my hands for you allso you can see it.
But in general, the Purple Linefor those of you not familiar
is a 16 mile light rail that isgoing to be kind of the first
real ring route around kind ofouter DC.
It's actually in Maryland inits entirety.
It is going to be kind of thefirst real ring route around uh
kind of outer dc.
It's actually in maryland inits entirety.
(01:48):
It's going to have 21 stationsrunning from bethesda, maryland,
to new carolton, um, and alongthe way it's going to interface
with three different of the uhwmata, as we were hearing wmata
wmata uh metro lines, uhconnecting into DC, as well as
three of the MARC commuter lines, an Amtrak section, as well as
(02:09):
dozens of local and regionalbuses along the way.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, and this is really the first ring route that
is connecting in DC.
You don't see ring routes a lotin the US.
We just frankly don't have thetrain networks built out to the
extent that they're reallyneeded or where they benefit
Right.
But we are starting to see somering routes coming out.
This is one of them.
We've mentioned a couple times.
There's one in Dallas as well,called the Silver Line, not
(02:36):
really a full ring route, but itis one that connects the
airport to Plano, texas, so justa non-centralized line.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Totally, and they're very normal basically everywhere
in the world that have a reallyreliable, frequent transit.
So it's nice to start to seesome of these happening here at
home.
But for the episode we're goingto start by kind of jumping
into the actual alignment of theroute, starting in Bethesda.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
So Bethesda is one of the many, many sort of suburban
towns that exist outside of thecity of DC, if anybody who has
not been there.
You have centralized DC andthen you have Virginia and
Maryland and there are tons ofsmaller cities all around it
that are connected by buses, bytrains et cetera.
(03:21):
Bethesda is one of the largerof these if you're heading out
on the Red Line out of DC.
Very built up area, sort ofperfect for starting the line.
Here there's a lot of busconnections the Red Line
connection, I believe a Markconnection as well that passes
through here, and now soon to bethe Purple Line connection.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Totally, and it is one of the busiest stations, one
of the busier suburban stationson the Metro.
It sees right now about 5,000to 6,000 riders a day and
trending up.
Before COVID it was actuallyseeing 10,000 riders a day on
the Metro, so definitely somegood potential interface with
the Purple Line.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah absolutely From Bethesda.
The line is going to move eastthrough more of a residential
suburban area.
Out of Bethesda it's going togo to Chevy Chase, littonsville.
Littonsville are a little lessdense, but there's a lot of
(04:27):
opportunity for moretransit-oriented development to
pop up around these stations,providing more houses and more
ridership.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Totally, and as we have the quick cameo from
Chris's cat Otto here movingalong, the next major station on
the line is going to be SilverSprings.
So Bethesda and now SilverSprings are kind of the two big
ones and we have a few smallerones that we've seen in between
so far.
Presently at Silver Springs theMetro sees about six to 7,000
(04:52):
riders a day.
So another really popular, kindof more suburban station along
the line, Silver Springs.
We actually got to go check outin person.
It is a major bus terminal,Number one, Huge bus terminal,
yeah, multi-level.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
There were tons of buses coming in and out Private
companies, public buses, allkinds of buses Totally.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
In addition to that, the Mark trains run there
seemingly only on the weekdays,but there is some Mark train
ridership.
Also, this station is so builtup all around it.
This is like textbooktransit-oriented development.
You had lots of mixed-use, lotsof apartments, a lot of offices
as well and there were quite afew people.
(05:32):
Actually it was a gross coldday out and there were quite a
few people out and about.
We actually went and gotbreakfast in this area.
Very busy and, yeah, I meanoverall very well interconnected
into the region.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, and it was interesting to see how the
Purple Line is being added intothis development that's already
there.
There's a big flyover bridgecoming off of the right-of-way
where you see the Red Line andthe Mark Line coming through.
This sort of flyover bridge hasa station on the opposite side
of the development and then itkind of ended and so we were
(06:04):
looking at this saying there'sbuildings all around us.
Where the hell is this traingoing to go?
Turns out it makes a kind ofsharp turn through a parking
garage and then onto the mainstreet in this area.
It was a really cool design tosee.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Absolutely, and they're definitely spending real
money.
On this section we're going totalk about the financial
elements of this, which thecosts have gone up, surprise,
surprise, as the developmentscontinued.
But yeah, I mean this is like areal big infrastructure project
going through Silver Springs tointerconnect the Purple Line
(06:40):
and integrate it really wellwith the existing service in the
area.
We saw some pedestrian bridgesunder construction.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Bike share, bike share.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Bike lockers.
Bike lockers, which was nice tosee, so if you wanted to bike
in and have a secure place toleave your bike all day.
Really, it seemed like they'redoing a lot of things really
well at Silver Spring.
Yeah, I agree, from SilverSpring we had kind of one more
dense station at the SilverSprings library, so not right at
the transit center anymore butat the library, which again has
(07:07):
a lot of the same benefits withthe density and the transit
oriented development at thestation, before kind of moving
off to a few more suburban stopsnext.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Continuing east and out of Silver Spring.
We're going to skip a few ofthe smaller stations.
Again, these are moreresidential suburban areas.
The Purple Line is going tocontinue over to the Tacoma
Langley Station area.
In Langley it's actually reallyinteresting to look at the path
of the train because they'reusing a really creative mix of
(07:38):
sort of new right-of-way,existing rail right-of-way and
in this case they're sort oftransitioning back to the main
roads and using the roadright-of-way.
So we see the purple linecoming down the middle of sort
of the main street in this areaand passing by the bus terminal
in Langley.
So, again, another good use oftransit-oriented development and
connecting riders from thelocal bus system to this line.
(08:01):
And then it continues on throughthe Tacoma area where there's a
lot of the sort of strip malldevelopments that you expect to
see in.
You know, a modern America,american suburbia, tons of
surface parking and, as youwould say, where you see surface
parking I see potential.
Yeah, maybe coming to a t-shirtavailable to you soon, maybe,
(08:22):
yeah, yeah, it's just likereally classic.
Maybe coming to a t-shirtavailable to you soon, maybe,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
It's just really classic.
I mean right now, not the bestland use to have surrounding
these stations.
However, if you redevelop itinto some nice mixed use, keep
the commercial that's there butbuild apartments as well, and,
yeah, I think it could reallyhelp boost ridership.
And when you already have thatbus terminal there too, this
(08:46):
area to me stood out as an areathat has a lot of potential for
future ridership Maybe not somuch to start, but down the line
, definitely.
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll jump right back into theepisode in just a second, but
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Speaker 1 (09:16):
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But without further ado let'sjump right back into the episode
Next, along the line we havefour stops that serve the
University of Maryland area, andit literally goes right down
the middle of the campus, whichis exactly where it should go.
For folks not familiar, theUniversity of Maryland has a
(09:37):
student population of over40,000 students Pretty sizable
university Totally.
And then when you add on tothis, there's an additional
15,000 faculty and staff whowork at the university, so
potential ridership of almost60,000 people just when you're
counting students and staff, notcounting any visitors and other
business and whatnot thathappens surrounding the area.
(09:59):
To me this is a major win tohave it in the system.
Currently, the university isonly kind of sort of served by
the metro lines at college parkgreen line that comes up through
college park right, and it'spresently like a bus ride or a
long walk that most peopleprobably weren't going to do,
(10:20):
whereas now it will be an easyhop on to the purple line to
connect you right to the greenline.
I'd imagine too that there'sprobably a lot of students who
live in suburban Maryland who gotoo, that there's probably a
lot of students who live insuburban Maryland who go here.
So there's also just a lot ofpotential for commuters from
Bethesda, from Silver Springsand several of the other places,
even the more suburban stopsall along the line to use this
(10:40):
to commute into the universityevery day, which is just a major
win.
And the other thing I'llmention here is college students
generally don't like to have acar in a lot of cases, I would
say, if they don't have to.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Don't like it or can't afford it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Or can't afford it exactly, and this is a great way
to, regardless of theirsituation, introduce them to
good transit before they becomevery car-pilled and decide they
want to have cars everywherealways.
I love that I used pilled rightthere, become very car-pilled
and decide they want to havecars everywhere always.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I love that.
I used to pill right there.
Even if you can't afford a carand you do typically drive your
vehicle onto campus, this isalso a good opportunity to leave
the vehicle at home because, asany college student can tell
you, parking fees on campusesreally high, totally, really
annoying.
Yes, absolutely.
Continuing east, past thecollege, we end up in more
suburban residential areas.
(11:31):
I think that's going to be atheme for a lot of this line.
A lot of these areas fall intosort of weird areas with
topography a lot of likewatersheds and kind of woodsy
areas.
A lot of residentialneighborhoods that you're sort
of winding the road around Again, finding that creative path
using the road right of way.
Neighborhoods that you're sortof winding the road around again
, finding that creative pathusing the road right-of-way
anywhere that you can.
But what we really notice onthis last stretch between the
(11:55):
University of Maryland and NewCarrollton, which is the
terminus of the line, is thatthere's not a ton of
availability to develop a lot oftransit-oriented developments.
Right, there are a couple ofstrip mall, shopping center
areas that we identified on themap that the rail line goes
through, that have potential,but we're thinking this is
probably going to be a lowerridership part of the line.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right, yeah, and I mean there was one thing that
just stood out to me when wewere scrolling through.
I mean there is a grocery storenear one of the stops which and
I think there were some in someof the earlier suburban ones.
So obviously having access to agrocery store on a transit line
always going to be helpful forfolks so like to see that sort
of thing.
But yeah, um, unlike some ofthe other stations, less room to
uh for development here, orless room for development with,
(12:40):
like out, a huge ordeal of likerelocating single family homes
and all that sort of thing whichfolks are not going to let
happen.
Basically, I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
They did find some space to put the OMF here,
though, which is the operationsand maintenance facility, so the
OMF is also tucked away in thisline and, as you kind of called
out, off camera.
That's probably why the linestarted here was because they
found some cheap, or at leastgood, land to build this
facility.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Totally.
And this kind of brings us toour last stop on this line,
which is New Carrollton.
So you know, maybe there'll besome decent ridership because of
this last stop here.
So New Carrollton is currentlythe end of the Orange line for
the DC Metro.
There is some transit-orienteddevelopment being built here
(13:27):
right now.
There's some stuff that's openalready.
So obviously, the potentialinterface with the Orange Line
only a good thing.
The transit-orienteddevelopment happening here only
a good thing.
This is also where DC Metro hasa big operations facility.
They store a lot of theirtrains in New Carrollton and
also New Carrollton has a stopon the Amtrak as well and
(13:48):
presently sees about 4,000riders per day on the metro line
.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So another good place for a lot of transit transfers
and a lot of ridership generated.
Maybe in New Carrollton We'llsee if it extends down the
Purple Line.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I'm really curious to see what the ridership is
ultimately going to look likeand where the main destinations
that people are traveling to,where they're mostly getting on
Obviously, like you know, themain ones that we pointed out
Bethesda, silver Springs, newCarrollton and the whole
university area, usdot and someof the studies on this they're
(14:29):
expecting somewhere in the realmof 56,000 weekday trips on it,
like every weekday they'reexpecting roughly 56,000 riders.
But it's also one of thosethings that I'm curious yeah,
how long those rides are goingto be, if there are going to be
sections of this that don't seeit when we look at some of the
(14:53):
travel times on it.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
It's not all doom and gloom, but it's a little funny.
Yeah, I do wonder, with some ofthe travel times, how people
are going to perceive this.
So, for instance, if you'regoing to take a bus on the
length of this line, whichnobody's really doing nobody's
really taking a bus from NewCarrollton to Bethesda, but if
you were to do it today it wouldtake about 92 minutes total
time city to city.
That number is only going to goup over time, especially as
(15:16):
there's more people in the area,more development, more traffic.
So by 2040, they're actuallyestimating that commute to be
108 minutes long, so definitelygrowing.
If you were to take Metro Railcurrently, which would be taking
the red line all the way downto DC, transferring to the green
or orange sorry, to the orangeand then taking the orange back
up, it'll take you about 55minutes and the projected amount
(15:39):
of time on the purple lineright now is 63 minutes, Right?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So meaning it's actually faster to take the DC
Metro in and then back out thanit would be to take the Purple
Line end to end.
But it's a lot better for theless distant spots, right?
So if you're you know, a morerealistic example of where
someone might be traveling andusing the Purple Line would be
going from Bethesda to SilverSprings.
(16:04):
So in 24 or 2030, the estimatedtime by bus would be 40 minutes
.
The Purple Line is projected totake 10.
So on some of the destinationsthat probably are going to be
more likely, you're likely goingto see travel time saved, but
on some of the more distant ones, it's not great, and a lot of
(16:25):
that has to do with this beinglight rail and not being in
dedicated right of way the wholetime.
There's a lot of weaving in andout of traffic.
There are some sections thatare elevated or have real
dedicated space, but yeah,that's a long distance travel.
So of course you'll see theMetro, which has got grade
separation the entire way.
Not interfacing with traffic atall is going to beat it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, you have to think about how traffic patterns
work and we talk about this alot that people have a bias
against buses.
So if you're going to try toget somebody to go from one of
these suburban towns into DC notusing their car, it may be an
easier sell, even if it's alittle bit longer to take the
train, almost like a circulator,like a bus circulator would be.
Take it to the nearest metroline.
(17:07):
That's going to then get youinto central DC.
I think that's going to collecta lot of commuters.
Would it be quicker by bus?
Probably so, but can you getpeople over their bias of buses?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Right, yeah, and I mean overall, I think this is a
good project that needs to bedone.
There are some complaints thatfolks have about it, though, so
we'll kind of transition hereinto talking about the cost
issues that we've seen so far.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, it's been nicknamed the most expensive not
nicknamed, I guess, butdescribed as the most expensive
light rail project by mile inthe world.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, not great.
Not great.
It was initially expected tocost just over five billion
dollars and now we are veryclose to doubling it at $10
billion.
So not great.
I'm going to read a directquote here that just kind of
gives a little bit of insighthere, from a Maryland Matters
article Nearly seven years afterconstruction began, transit
(18:05):
authorities returned to theBoard of Public Works yet again
this month, this time seeking anadditional $425 million for the
light rail project.
It was the fourth such requestsince 2016 to supplement the
Purple Line's original $5.6billion budget.
Following the three memberboards' unanimous but reluctant
approval, the total cost of thePurple Line is now approaching
$10 billion.
So, you know, four times injust the last few years they've
(18:30):
gone back to ask for more money.
So it's like it's trickybecause obviously, like costs
have gone up since COVID right,obviously everywhere.
But it also seems like, ifyou're going back four separate
times to ask for more money,there's also and I don't know
for sure, right, but it alsojust seems like there's some
some incompetence or something.
Sure, right, but it also justseems like there's some some
incompetence or something goingon where it's like you had to
(18:52):
continue to go back and ask formoney, like adjust the budget.
Adjust the budget, that's fine,but adjusting the budget four
times in like a couple yearsfeels inefficiencies in
government spending on buildingtransit systems.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I just I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It doesn't have to be this way, it doesn't have to be
that way and this.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
This would go into a whole other episode that we
could do and which we should dojust breaking down exact costs
of transit systems.
But yeah, this is a an oldstory in the us.
Anytime you're going to try tobuild a new transit system, it's
almost always over budget andtakes a little more time than
you would expect.
It doesn't have to be that way.
There's a lot of reasons, a lotof ways we could make this more
(19:27):
efficient.
There's a lot of reasons why itis the way it is now, but this
is sort of the reality of thistransit system Right, and it is
being built under aprivate-public partnership model
, also known as a P3.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's a whole other conversation we could have.
Rm Transit did a really greatvideo just explaining P3s and
the pros and cons to them, whichwe'll leave a link to below if
you're interested in diving intothat.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
And they can be really good for the public.
I mean, if you're trying tooffset some of the costs, you
give some of this project to aprivate company, they get to
recoup those costs, whether it'sby fares or other methods.
That's all fine and good, butthen your local government has
limited control over the system.
Totally so definitely.
If you're summarizing pros andcons, that's kind of that's a
lot of it right.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
one other thing I want to touch on on the purple
line too is the purple line is atransit project in Maryland.
It will have a different faresystem than the rest of the kind
of WMATA system, from what Iunderstand at least, and while
it's not the biggest deal in theworld, there are a lot of
(20:32):
transit systems, especially inthe United States, that deal
with this, like even New YorkCity comes to mind.
If you're coming from NewJersey, you know, on a PATH
train or something like, you'rebuying a fare for the PATH train
and then you're buying anotherfare for the MTA, for the subway
and whatnot.
So you know it works, but it'snot as convenient as you'd like
it to be necessarily.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And in this day and age we can track riders so
easily.
We can transfer the money fromfares pretty easily across state
lines.
It really doesn't make sensefor it to be as difficult as it
is.
So it is a little disappointingthat they're not already
talking about integrating intothis payment system.
But, as you said, you look atNew York and it's kind of a
similar issue, kind of anywhereyou go.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And it's something that in the future could be
fixed pretty easily too.
So it's not all doom and gloom.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
If I can use a toll transponder to drive on a
highway in Texas and have thatsame toll transponder work in
Colorado Right?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, we should be able to use a train between two
states, right, we do it for cardrivers, we should do it for
transit, right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
So that is the summary of the Purple Line as it
exists today and what will openin twenty, twenty seven,
hopefully, hopefully, at fifteenbillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
No, no, no no more.
10 billion we got.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
We got it at 10 but this is really just one segment
of a much larger project that'sgoing to connect not only
maryland but also connect intovirginia, back around to dc, and
the idea is that you are makinga true ring route.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I know we've been calling it a ring route and this
is only like one little sectionof it yeah, and there are a lot
of uh, good potential places,similar to Bethesda and Silver
Springs and New Carrollton, thatalready have development built
up, that this could continue tohelp connect, continue to
interface with existing transitlines along the way, and it
would make a lot of sense.
And it's something that again,as we kind of briefly touched on
(22:21):
at the beginning of the episode, is super normal in the rest of
the world.
Yes, not so much in the US.
And you know, like when a lotof our transit systems were
being built in the US, there wasa lot more direct like, yeah,
you went to downtown, you go todowntown to go out to eat and to
shop and to work specificallyto work in a lot of cases and
you have a transit system set upfor a morning commute and an
(22:44):
evening commute.
But that's just not how thingswork anymore.
And it was kind of, you know,especially after COVID, with so
many people working from home.
Sure, you have a lot morepeople returning to the office
and whatnot now, but there'salso a lot of office development
in a lot of these further outsuburbs.
There's a lot of otherdestinations throughout and
people are not only justtraveling at eight in the
(23:05):
morning and at 5 pm at night.
They're traveling more spreadout throughout the day and
projects like the Purple Line,in my opinion, really start to
address that.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, I think so too, and this is sort of a
consequence of the sort ofuninhibited urban sprawl that
we've created in the US.
Similar in other countries too.
You have this urban sprawl.
You have these other littletown centers.
It's a different mindset on whythey connect them and how they
connect them with their ringroutes and their larger transit
networks.
But here in the US we have aproblem with urban sprawl.
(23:37):
We have a problem with suburbia, and a lot of suburban areas
are starting to densify.
They're getting these offices,they're being their own economic
engines.
Now we have to provide mobilityfor these towns and if we're
going to have this sprawl, we'regoing to have to find a way to
connect them and it can't bethat all of the traffic has to
go into a centralized downtownarea, especially because most
people don't want to do that.
It's going to be better for theenvironment and better for
(23:59):
these towns if we can find amore efficient way to move
people from these sort ofsuburbs around the ring to each
other.
Totally, that doesn't involvedriving.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, um, with that, that's a whole lot on the purple
line.
Um, hopefully we can get backto the area post 2027 to go, uh,
take a ride on the purple line,maybe not the full distance and
also maybe in the summer andmaybe in the spring.
Yeah, yeah yeah, the joke Ikept making the entire time we
were in dc was I was I wassuggesting we should go to
(24:27):
Phoenix and it would have beenabout 80 degrees and sunny in
Phoenix and instead it wassnowing and cold and windy.
But it's okay.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
We had a lovely time.
We did have a lovely time.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
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(24:59):
A couple people have receivedthe stickers.
A couple have posted about iton Twitter where I was, and I
think we might actually haveseen someone post it on an
Instagram story too.
So happy to see some of thePatreon members getting their
stickers.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Also, if you want to make a one-time donation to the
show, we do have access to BuyMe a Coffee and we also have, as
you heard, in the mid-roll, abrand new store that's going to
include some merchandise, soshirts, hoodies, baseball caps,
socks.
I'm actually I'm excited forthe socks to come in and
stickers there as well.
So if you want to support us,check out the store as well.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yep, and more to come there.
Hopefully We'll see.
If you've got requests, let usknow Without any further ado,
though, thank you all so muchfor watching and enjoy the rest
of your transit.
Tangents Tuesday.
Doors are closing.
Public transit that's my way toroll On the metro.
I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind, daily grind.
Public transit it's the rhythmof my life.
This week we dive into thePurple Line, the state of
Maryland's plan to build a16-mile light rail connecting
(00:23):
several DC suburbs along the way.
Despite delays and costoverruns, the system is
scheduled to open in 2027.
All of this and more coming upon Transit Tangents.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of
Transit Tangents.
My name is Chris and I'm Lewis,and today we are looking at a
system just outside of DC calledthe Purple Line.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, and we had the opportunity to actually travel
to Washington DC about a weekago.
It'll be a little bit more thanthat when this comes out, but
we have more episodes coming onthe topic, don't worry.
But we also checked out some ofthe recent progress on the
Purple Line.
Unfortunately, we were not ableto put this project in our
(01:05):
projects to look forward to in2025, but it is coming soon
right now, slated to open in2027.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
When we got out there , we were actually gonna do this
episode on site at one of thestations that's currently being
built.
However, I think on that day itwas- about 27 degrees and very
windy and snow, blowing throughHalf a foot of snow, my hands
were freezing off.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
When we get to the Silver Spring Station section
there'll be some actual B-rollthat we took on the ground and I
sacrificed my hands for you allso you can see it.
But in general, the Purple Linefor those of you not familiar
is a 16 mile light rail that isgoing to be kind of the first
real ring route around kind ofouter DC.
It's actually in Maryland inits entirety.
It is going to be kind of thefirst real ring route around uh
kind of outer dc.
It's actually in maryland inits entirety.
(01:48):
It's going to have 21 stationsrunning from bethesda, maryland,
to new carolton, um, and alongthe way it's going to interface
with three different of the uhwmata, as we were hearing wmata
wmata uh metro lines, uhconnecting into DC, as well as
three of the MARC commuter lines, an Amtrak section, as well as
(02:09):
dozens of local and regionalbuses along the way.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, and this is really the first ring route that
is connecting in DC.
You don't see ring routes a lotin the US.
We just frankly don't have thetrain networks built out to the
extent that they're reallyneeded or where they benefit
Right.
But we are starting to see somering routes coming out.
This is one of them.
We've mentioned a couple times.
There's one in Dallas as well,called the Silver Line, not
(02:36):
really a full ring route, but itis one that connects the
airport to Plano, texas, so justa non-centralized line.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Totally, and they're very normal basically everywhere
in the world that have a reallyreliable, frequent transit.
So it's nice to start to seesome of these happening here at
home.
But for the episode we're goingto start by kind of jumping
into the actual alignment of theroute, starting in Bethesda.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
So Bethesda is one of the many, many sort of suburban
towns that exist outside of thecity of DC, if anybody who has
not been there.
You have centralized DC andthen you have Virginia and
Maryland and there are tons ofsmaller cities all around it
that are connected by buses, bytrains et cetera.
(03:21):
Bethesda is one of the largerof these if you're heading out
on the Red Line out of DC.
Very built up area, sort ofperfect for starting the line.
Here there's a lot of busconnections the Red Line
connection, I believe a Markconnection as well that passes
through here, and now soon to bethe Purple Line connection.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Totally, and it is one of the busiest stations, one
of the busier suburban stationson the Metro.
It sees right now about 5,000to 6,000 riders a day and
trending up.
Before COVID it was actuallyseeing 10,000 riders a day on
the Metro, so definitely somegood potential interface with
the Purple Line.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah absolutely From Bethesda.
The line is going to move eastthrough more of a residential
suburban area.
Out of Bethesda it's going togo to Chevy Chase, littonsville.
Littonsville are a little lessdense, but there's a lot of
(04:27):
opportunity for moretransit-oriented development to
pop up around these stations,providing more houses and more
ridership.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Totally, and as we have the quick cameo from
Chris's cat Otto here movingalong, the next major station on
the line is going to be SilverSprings.
So Bethesda and now SilverSprings are kind of the two big
ones and we have a few smallerones that we've seen in between
so far.
Presently at Silver Springs theMetro sees about six to 7,000
(04:52):
riders a day.
So another really popular, kindof more suburban station along
the line, Silver Springs.
We actually got to go check outin person.
It is a major bus terminal,Number one, Huge bus terminal,
yeah, multi-level.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
There were tons of buses coming in and out Private
companies, public buses, allkinds of buses Totally.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
In addition to that, the Mark trains run there
seemingly only on the weekdays,but there is some Mark train
ridership.
Also, this station is so builtup all around it.
This is like textbooktransit-oriented development.
You had lots of mixed-use, lotsof apartments, a lot of offices
as well and there were quite afew people.
(05:32):
Actually it was a gross coldday out and there were quite a
few people out and about.
We actually went and gotbreakfast in this area.
Very busy and, yeah, I meanoverall very well interconnected
into the region.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, and it was interesting to see how the
Purple Line is being added intothis development that's already
there.
There's a big flyover bridgecoming off of the right-of-way
where you see the Red Line andthe Mark Line coming through.
This sort of flyover bridge hasa station on the opposite side
of the development and then itkind of ended and so we were
(06:04):
looking at this saying there'sbuildings all around us.
Where the hell is this traingoing to go?
Turns out it makes a kind ofsharp turn through a parking
garage and then onto the mainstreet in this area.
It was a really cool design tosee.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Absolutely, and they're definitely spending real
money.
On this section we're going totalk about the financial
elements of this, which thecosts have gone up, surprise,
surprise, as the developmentscontinued.
But yeah, I mean this is like areal big infrastructure project
going through Silver Springs tointerconnect the Purple Line
(06:40):
and integrate it really wellwith the existing service in the
area.
We saw some pedestrian bridgesunder construction.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Bike share, bike share.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Bike lockers.
Bike lockers, which was nice tosee, so if you wanted to bike
in and have a secure place toleave your bike all day.
Really, it seemed like they'redoing a lot of things really
well at Silver Spring.
Yeah, I agree, from SilverSpring we had kind of one more
dense station at the SilverSprings library, so not right at
the transit center anymore butat the library, which again has
(07:07):
a lot of the same benefits withthe density and the transit
oriented development at thestation, before kind of moving
off to a few more suburban stopsnext.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Continuing east and out of Silver Spring.
We're going to skip a few ofthe smaller stations.
Again, these are moreresidential suburban areas.
The Purple Line is going tocontinue over to the Tacoma
Langley Station area.
In Langley it's actually reallyinteresting to look at the path
of the train because they'reusing a really creative mix of
(07:38):
sort of new right-of-way,existing rail right-of-way and
in this case they're sort oftransitioning back to the main
roads and using the roadright-of-way.
So we see the purple linecoming down the middle of sort
of the main street in this areaand passing by the bus terminal
in Langley.
So, again, another good use oftransit-oriented development and
connecting riders from thelocal bus system to this line.
(08:01):
And then it continues on throughthe Tacoma area where there's a
lot of the sort of strip malldevelopments that you expect to
see in.
You know, a modern America,american suburbia, tons of
surface parking and, as youwould say, where you see surface
parking I see potential.
Yeah, maybe coming to a t-shirtavailable to you soon, maybe,
(08:22):
yeah, yeah, it's just likereally classic.
Maybe coming to a t-shirtavailable to you soon, maybe,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
It's just really classic.
I mean right now, not the bestland use to have surrounding
these stations.
However, if you redevelop itinto some nice mixed use, keep
the commercial that's there butbuild apartments as well, and,
yeah, I think it could reallyhelp boost ridership.
And when you already have thatbus terminal there too, this
(08:46):
area to me stood out as an areathat has a lot of potential for
future ridership Maybe not somuch to start, but down the line
, definitely.
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll jump right back into theepisode in just a second, but
first, if you haven't liked thisvideo or left a comment, please
do so.
It helps us out quite a bit andwe also have some exciting news
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Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, if you want to support the show.
We have swag, we havemerchandise.
Go check out our store whereyou can get hats, t-shirts,
hoodies, a bunch of other thingscoming.
New designs for that all goingto be coming up in the next few
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Speaker 1 (09:16):
Lastly, if you want to support the show directly and
get access to early episodes,you can do so on Patreon.
But without further ado let'sjump right back into the episode
Next, along the line we havefour stops that serve the
University of Maryland area, andit literally goes right down
the middle of the campus, whichis exactly where it should go.
For folks not familiar, theUniversity of Maryland has a
(09:37):
student population of over40,000 students Pretty sizable
university Totally.
And then when you add on tothis, there's an additional
15,000 faculty and staff whowork at the university, so
potential ridership of almost60,000 people just when you're
counting students and staff, notcounting any visitors and other
business and whatnot thathappens surrounding the area.
(09:59):
To me this is a major win tohave it in the system.
Currently, the university isonly kind of sort of served by
the metro lines at college parkgreen line that comes up through
college park right, and it'spresently like a bus ride or a
long walk that most peopleprobably weren't going to do,
(10:20):
whereas now it will be an easyhop on to the purple line to
connect you right to the greenline.
I'd imagine too that there'sprobably a lot of students who
live in suburban Maryland who gotoo, that there's probably a
lot of students who live insuburban Maryland who go here.
So there's also just a lot ofpotential for commuters from
Bethesda, from Silver Springsand several of the other places,
even the more suburban stopsall along the line to use this
(10:40):
to commute into the universityevery day, which is just a major
win.
And the other thing I'llmention here is college students
generally don't like to have acar in a lot of cases, I would
say, if they don't have to.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Don't like it or can't afford it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Or can't afford it exactly, and this is a great way
to, regardless of theirsituation, introduce them to
good transit before they becomevery car-pilled and decide they
want to have cars everywherealways.
I love that I used pilled rightthere, become very car-pilled
and decide they want to havecars everywhere always.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I love that.
I used to pill right there.
Even if you can't afford a carand you do typically drive your
vehicle onto campus, this isalso a good opportunity to leave
the vehicle at home because, asany college student can tell
you, parking fees on campusesreally high, totally, really
annoying.
Yes, absolutely.
Continuing east, past thecollege, we end up in more
suburban residential areas.
(11:31):
I think that's going to be atheme for a lot of this line.
A lot of these areas fall intosort of weird areas with
topography a lot of likewatersheds and kind of woodsy
areas.
A lot of residentialneighborhoods that you're sort
of winding the road around Again, finding that creative path
using the road right of way.
Neighborhoods that you're sortof winding the road around again
, finding that creative pathusing the road right-of-way
anywhere that you can.
But what we really notice onthis last stretch between the
(11:55):
University of Maryland and NewCarrollton, which is the
terminus of the line, is thatthere's not a ton of
availability to develop a lot oftransit-oriented developments.
Right, there are a couple ofstrip mall, shopping center
areas that we identified on themap that the rail line goes
through, that have potential,but we're thinking this is
probably going to be a lowerridership part of the line.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right, yeah, and I mean there was one thing that
just stood out to me when wewere scrolling through.
I mean there is a grocery storenear one of the stops which and
I think there were some in someof the earlier suburban ones.
So obviously having access to agrocery store on a transit line
always going to be helpful forfolks so like to see that sort
of thing.
But yeah, um, unlike some ofthe other stations, less room to
uh for development here, orless room for development with,
(12:40):
like out, a huge ordeal of likerelocating single family homes
and all that sort of thing whichfolks are not going to let
happen.
Basically, I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
They did find some space to put the OMF here,
though, which is the operationsand maintenance facility, so the
OMF is also tucked away in thisline and, as you kind of called
out, off camera.
That's probably why the linestarted here was because they
found some cheap, or at leastgood, land to build this
facility.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Totally.
And this kind of brings us toour last stop on this line,
which is New Carrollton.
So you know, maybe there'll besome decent ridership because of
this last stop here.
So New Carrollton is currentlythe end of the Orange line for
the DC Metro.
There is some transit-orienteddevelopment being built here
(13:27):
right now.
There's some stuff that's openalready.
So obviously, the potentialinterface with the Orange Line
only a good thing.
The transit-orienteddevelopment happening here only
a good thing.
This is also where DC Metro hasa big operations facility.
They store a lot of theirtrains in New Carrollton and
also New Carrollton has a stopon the Amtrak as well and
(13:48):
presently sees about 4,000riders per day on the metro line
.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So another good place for a lot of transit transfers
and a lot of ridership generated.
Maybe in New Carrollton We'llsee if it extends down the
Purple Line.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I'm really curious to see what the ridership is
ultimately going to look likeand where the main destinations
that people are traveling to,where they're mostly getting on
Obviously, like you know, themain ones that we pointed out
Bethesda, silver Springs, newCarrollton and the whole
university area, usdot and someof the studies on this they're
(14:29):
expecting somewhere in the realmof 56,000 weekday trips on it,
like every weekday they'reexpecting roughly 56,000 riders.
But it's also one of thosethings that I'm curious yeah,
how long those rides are goingto be, if there are going to be
sections of this that don't seeit when we look at some of the
(14:53):
travel times on it.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
It's not all doom and gloom, but it's a little funny.
Yeah, I do wonder, with some ofthe travel times, how people
are going to perceive this.
So, for instance, if you'regoing to take a bus on the
length of this line, whichnobody's really doing nobody's
really taking a bus from NewCarrollton to Bethesda, but if
you were to do it today it wouldtake about 92 minutes total
time city to city.
That number is only going to goup over time, especially as
(15:16):
there's more people in the area,more development, more traffic.
So by 2040, they're actuallyestimating that commute to be
108 minutes long, so definitelygrowing.
If you were to take Metro Railcurrently, which would be taking
the red line all the way downto DC, transferring to the green
or orange sorry, to the orangeand then taking the orange back
up, it'll take you about 55minutes and the projected amount
(15:39):
of time on the purple lineright now is 63 minutes, Right?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So meaning it's actually faster to take the DC
Metro in and then back out thanit would be to take the Purple
Line end to end.
But it's a lot better for theless distant spots, right?
So if you're you know, a morerealistic example of where
someone might be traveling andusing the Purple Line would be
going from Bethesda to SilverSprings.
(16:04):
So in 24 or 2030, the estimatedtime by bus would be 40 minutes
.
The Purple Line is projected totake 10.
So on some of the destinationsthat probably are going to be
more likely, you're likely goingto see travel time saved, but
on some of the more distant ones, it's not great, and a lot of
(16:25):
that has to do with this beinglight rail and not being in
dedicated right of way the wholetime.
There's a lot of weaving in andout of traffic.
There are some sections thatare elevated or have real
dedicated space, but yeah,that's a long distance travel.
So of course you'll see theMetro, which has got grade
separation the entire way.
Not interfacing with traffic atall is going to beat it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, you have to think about how traffic patterns
work and we talk about this alot that people have a bias
against buses.
So if you're going to try toget somebody to go from one of
these suburban towns into DC notusing their car, it may be an
easier sell, even if it's alittle bit longer to take the
train, almost like a circulator,like a bus circulator would be.
Take it to the nearest metroline.
(17:07):
That's going to then get youinto central DC.
I think that's going to collecta lot of commuters.
Would it be quicker by bus?
Probably so, but can you getpeople over their bias of buses?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Right, yeah, and I mean overall, I think this is a
good project that needs to bedone.
There are some complaints thatfolks have about it, though, so
we'll kind of transition hereinto talking about the cost
issues that we've seen so far.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, it's been nicknamed the most expensive not
nicknamed, I guess, butdescribed as the most expensive
light rail project by mile inthe world.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, not great.
Not great.
It was initially expected tocost just over five billion
dollars and now we are veryclose to doubling it at $10
billion.
So not great.
I'm going to read a directquote here that just kind of
gives a little bit of insighthere, from a Maryland Matters
article Nearly seven years afterconstruction began, transit
(18:05):
authorities returned to theBoard of Public Works yet again
this month, this time seeking anadditional $425 million for the
light rail project.
It was the fourth such requestsince 2016 to supplement the
Purple Line's original $5.6billion budget.
Following the three memberboards' unanimous but reluctant
approval, the total cost of thePurple Line is now approaching
$10 billion.
So, you know, four times injust the last few years they've
(18:30):
gone back to ask for more money.
So it's like it's trickybecause obviously, like costs
have gone up since COVID right,obviously everywhere.
But it also seems like, ifyou're going back four separate
times to ask for more money,there's also and I don't know
for sure, right, but it alsojust seems like there's some
some incompetence or something.
Sure, right, but it also justseems like there's some some
incompetence or something goingon where it's like you had to
(18:52):
continue to go back and ask formoney, like adjust the budget.
Adjust the budget, that's fine,but adjusting the budget four
times in like a couple yearsfeels inefficiencies in
government spending on buildingtransit systems.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I just I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It doesn't have to be this way, it doesn't have to be
that way and this.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
This would go into a whole other episode that we
could do and which we should dojust breaking down exact costs
of transit systems.
But yeah, this is a an oldstory in the us.
Anytime you're going to try tobuild a new transit system, it's
almost always over budget andtakes a little more time than
you would expect.
It doesn't have to be that way.
There's a lot of reasons, a lotof ways we could make this more
(19:27):
efficient.
There's a lot of reasons why itis the way it is now, but this
is sort of the reality of thistransit system Right, and it is
being built under aprivate-public partnership model
, also known as a P3.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's a whole other conversation we could have.
Rm Transit did a really greatvideo just explaining P3s and
the pros and cons to them, whichwe'll leave a link to below if
you're interested in diving intothat.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
And they can be really good for the public.
I mean, if you're trying tooffset some of the costs, you
give some of this project to aprivate company, they get to
recoup those costs, whether it'sby fares or other methods.
That's all fine and good, butthen your local government has
limited control over the system.
Totally so definitely.
If you're summarizing pros andcons, that's kind of that's a
lot of it right.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
one other thing I want to touch on on the purple
line too is the purple line is atransit project in Maryland.
It will have a different faresystem than the rest of the kind
of WMATA system, from what Iunderstand at least, and while
it's not the biggest deal in theworld, there are a lot of
(20:32):
transit systems, especially inthe United States, that deal
with this, like even New YorkCity comes to mind.
If you're coming from NewJersey, you know, on a PATH
train or something like, you'rebuying a fare for the PATH train
and then you're buying anotherfare for the MTA, for the subway
and whatnot.
So you know it works, but it'snot as convenient as you'd like
it to be necessarily.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And in this day and age we can track riders so
easily.
We can transfer the money fromfares pretty easily across state
lines.
It really doesn't make sensefor it to be as difficult as it
is.
So it is a little disappointingthat they're not already
talking about integrating intothis payment system.
But, as you said, you look atNew York and it's kind of a
similar issue, kind of anywhereyou go.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And it's something that in the future could be
fixed pretty easily too.
So it's not all doom and gloom.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
If I can use a toll transponder to drive on a
highway in Texas and have thatsame toll transponder work in
Colorado Right?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, we should be able to use a train between two
states, right, we do it for cardrivers, we should do it for
transit, right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
So that is the summary of the Purple Line as it
exists today and what will openin twenty, twenty seven,
hopefully, hopefully, at fifteenbillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
No, no, no no more.
10 billion we got.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
We got it at 10 but this is really just one segment
of a much larger project that'sgoing to connect not only
maryland but also connect intovirginia, back around to dc, and
the idea is that you are makinga true ring route.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I know we've been calling it a ring route and this
is only like one little sectionof it yeah, and there are a lot
of uh, good potential places,similar to Bethesda and Silver
Springs and New Carrollton, thatalready have development built
up, that this could continue tohelp connect, continue to
interface with existing transitlines along the way, and it
would make a lot of sense.
And it's something that again,as we kind of briefly touched on
(22:21):
at the beginning of the episode, is super normal in the rest of
the world.
Yes, not so much in the US.
And you know, like when a lotof our transit systems were
being built in the US, there wasa lot more direct like, yeah,
you went to downtown, you go todowntown to go out to eat and to
shop and to work specificallyto work in a lot of cases and
you have a transit system set upfor a morning commute and an
(22:44):
evening commute.
But that's just not how thingswork anymore.
And it was kind of, you know,especially after COVID, with so
many people working from home.
Sure, you have a lot morepeople returning to the office
and whatnot now, but there'salso a lot of office development
in a lot of these further outsuburbs.
There's a lot of otherdestinations throughout and
people are not only justtraveling at eight in the
(23:05):
morning and at 5 pm at night.
They're traveling more spreadout throughout the day and
projects like the Purple Line,in my opinion, really start to
address that.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, I think so too, and this is sort of a
consequence of the sort ofuninhibited urban sprawl that
we've created in the US.
Similar in other countries too.
You have this urban sprawl.
You have these other littletown centers.
It's a different mindset on whythey connect them and how they
connect them with their ringroutes and their larger transit
networks.
But here in the US we have aproblem with urban sprawl.
(23:37):
We have a problem with suburbia, and a lot of suburban areas
are starting to densify.
They're getting these offices,they're being their own economic
engines.
Now we have to provide mobilityfor these towns and if we're
going to have this sprawl, we'regoing to have to find a way to
connect them and it can't bethat all of the traffic has to
go into a centralized downtownarea, especially because most
people don't want to do that.
It's going to be better for theenvironment and better for
(23:59):
these towns if we can find amore efficient way to move
people from these sort ofsuburbs around the ring to each
other.
Totally, that doesn't involvedriving.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, um, with that, that's a whole lot on the purple
line.
Um, hopefully we can get backto the area post 2027 to go, uh,
take a ride on the purple line,maybe not the full distance and
also maybe in the summer andmaybe in the spring.
Yeah, yeah yeah, the joke Ikept making the entire time we
were in dc was I was I wassuggesting we should go to
(24:27):
Phoenix and it would have beenabout 80 degrees and sunny in
Phoenix and instead it wassnowing and cold and windy.
But it's okay.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
We had a lovely time.
We did have a lovely time.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
With all that being said, if you have not liked this
video already, please considerdoing so.
Also, if you want to directlysupport the show, you can do so
on Patreon, patreoncom, slashtransit tangents.
You get access to extendedepisodes, episodes early,
sometimes some bonus content, aswell as our members only
Discord channel Plus.
I will mail stickers to youpersonally.
(24:59):
A couple people have receivedthe stickers.
A couple have posted about iton Twitter where I was, and I
think we might actually haveseen someone post it on an
Instagram story too.
So happy to see some of thePatreon members getting their
stickers.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Also, if you want to make a one-time donation to the
show, we do have access to BuyMe a Coffee and we also have, as
you heard, in the mid-roll, abrand new store that's going to
include some merchandise, soshirts, hoodies, baseball caps,
socks.
I'm actually I'm excited forthe socks to come in and
stickers there as well.
So if you want to support us,check out the store as well.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yep, and more to come there.
Hopefully We'll see.
If you've got requests, let usknow Without any further ado,
though, thank you all so muchfor watching and enjoy the rest
of your transit.
Tangents Tuesday.
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