February 25, 2025 • 25 mins
Exciting developments are on the horizon in Minneapolis-St Paul. We dive into the new Gold Line BRT and its potential to redefine transit in the area, exploring its benefits and limitations compared to similar lines.
• Overview of the Gold Line and its dedicated infrastructure
• Comparison of Gold Line with B-Line and their operational differences
• Importance of transit-oriented development along the Gold Line route
• Insights into ridership expectations and community impact
• Discussion on how urban planning can influence future transit projects
If you enjoyed this conversation and want to help us grow, please consider supporting our show via Patreon or checking out our merch store!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Doors are closing.
Public transit, that's my wayto roll On.
A metro, I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind.
Public transit, it's the rhythmof my life.
On this episode of TransitTangents, we discuss new bus
rapid transit lines headed toMinneapolis-St Paul.
(00:23):
We'll compare pros and cons ofthe two models being used and
where they're headed, movingforward.
All of this and more coming upon Transit Tangents.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of
Transit Tangents.
My name's Chris and I'm Lewisand today we are listening to
your feedback from our top 10transit projects to look for in
2025.
We got a lot of comments aboutother projects that we should
have looked at and we arereading those comments and
taking those suggestions.
(00:54):
So today we are going to diveinto the sort of Minneapolis St
Paul area more on the St Paulside Gold Line BRT.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, and we're also going to talk about some of the
light BRT stuff that's happeningas well.
We'll get into one of thoseprojects in particular, but
there's a lot to talk about withthe Gold Line where it's true
BRT, it is dedicated space.
I was really excited when Ilooked into this and saw how
hard you all were going with the.
There's some little tunnels andbridges and it's real, real
(01:25):
dedicated BRT and we don't seethat much of that in the United
States, so pretty excited to doit.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Before we get started , though, we want to call out we
have some new swag, as you'veprobably seen on the YouTube.
On the YouTube little scroller,it shows hoodies and t-shirts
and socks, and stickers and hats.
I am not a hat person, but I'mwearing it today.
So yeah, if you want to supportthe show and you're interested
in some swag, check out thelinks under the video.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Without further ado, though, let's jump into the
episode here.
Let's start off with the goldline, and throughout we're going
to kind of talk about somecomparisons between this gold
line, which is like the true BRT, as well, as we're going to
talk specifically about the Bline, which is another route
that's going to be opening inthe area, and kind of comparing
and contrasting some pros andcons between the true BRT, the
(02:15):
kind of light BRT, things inbetween, as we kind of go.
Have you been to Minneapolis?
I have not been outside of theairport.
Okay, I'd like to go though.
Yeah, yeah, kind of go.
But have you been to theminneapolis?
I have not been outside of theairport okay, I'd like to go
though.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, the bike ability in minneapolis is
supposed to be really great Ithink I think we will at some
point do a minneapolis in a dayusing public transit.
I've been to minneapolis andthe st paul area for work before
and, um, it's a beautiful,beautiful area and the
connectivity between these twocities and all the potential
that's there and already existsis really, really incredible.
Fun fact Minneapolis is theplace first time I ever saw a
(02:49):
frozen lake.
Wow, and I saw it and I waslike why is the water dirty?
And I was like, oh, no, it'sjust ice.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
You can now tell Chris is from the south if you
weren't able to tell that beforeanyway, the gold line uh
scheduled to open this year, in2025, is a 10 mile project,
again with true brtinfrastructure along the route.
Uh, it's scheduled to open inmarch, which by the time this
comes out it might be open likeclose to now, very soon.
(03:18):
Um, it creates 11 new stops,primarily along the i-94
corridor, 16 total stops ingeneral.
Some of them are kind ofoverlap with existing stops in
the downtown St Paul area.
I'm sure some of them are beingreworked, so those numbers
might be a little off as far aswhat's new and what's an
existing station.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, most of the project is fit within an
existing right-of-way, so that'sa huge cost savings, a huge
benefit to the community to beable to use this existing
right-of-way.
You know, fewer chances ofeminent domain and all that kind
of thing.
Yeah, in total there's about93,000 jobs within a half mile
of the station, which is alsohuge for getting commuters
(03:57):
around totally and kind of.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
One last little fact about it is about 13% of the
people who live within that samecashman area of a half a mile
from the station don't own a car.
So this will be a major benefitto folks who already are
relying on transit in the area,and we'll also have the added
benefit of potentially beingappealing to folks who might
(04:19):
have a car but are thinkingabout getting rid of one car and
being a one-car household orlooking for alternatives to
commute into St Paul.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think this is also a good time to call back to our
BRT episode.
If you're curious about whatthe difference between BRT and
other types of bus networks, howthat kind of breaks down.
We have a whole episode aboutBRT.
We don't see a lot of BRT inthe US, so this project's really
exciting because it's sort ofthe best thing we have is like a
real bus rapid transit.
(04:48):
What we see in other cities ismaybe a dedicated bus lane that
then merges back in with regulartraffic.
We see a little bit of thing.
We saw a little bit of movementin Houston with BRTs.
The mayor there has cut most ofthat service, so this is a
really exciting project Totally,and this project has been
(05:09):
floated for a while actually.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So it first came up in the mid-2000s, slash, 2010s.
At one point it was looked atinto doing a rail line in this
area, but ultimately, for costreasons as well as for kind of
ridership projections, theydecided that true, brt was the
way to go.
It essentially is going to actas a bit of a commuter service,
(05:30):
but a more frequent commuterservice, we'll say so.
It's supposed to run serviceall day long.
They don't give exact times onany of the documents here, so
I'm not sure if all day longmeans 24 hours, if it means 6 am
to midnight, I'm not sure ofthe specifics here.
I'm sure we will find out verysoon.
But yeah, and like we said, itruns mostly in that dedicated
(05:52):
right-of-way, so you're going tohave the benefits of not
sitting at stoplights all thetime.
You're going to have transitpriority in a lot of cases along
the line Drivers will not bestuck sitting in traffic.
Essentially, you'll be able tocruise right along on the BRT
line directly into St Paul orback home if you're heading the
other direction.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, when we say it follows the right-of-way, it's
not necessarily like just a laneof the highway that's been
dedicated to this.
It is its own standalonenetwork for most of the path
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, most of it runs on the north side of I-94.
It kind of weaves between a mixof long neighborhood streets
but also just on its ownroadways it bridges over several
intersections.
It goes under severalintersections.
It's pretty cool to actuallylook.
If you're watching, you can see.
If you're listening, I'll tryto describe.
It's really well integrated inand just it exceeded any
(06:46):
expectation that I thought I wasgoing to have of this, at least
seeing the renderings andwhatnot.
Now I have not seen it inperson.
So people in Minneapolis, tellme if I'm wrong.
Or in St Paul, tell me if I'mwrong.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So all in all it sounds like the project's pretty
well organized.
It has its right of way.
It seems like it's going to bedelivered on budget.
It's cost-wise, it's good forthe community.
Some downsides with how thisparticular model in the St Paul
area works out.
With it running along a highwayit's harder to connect
communities, I think in a way,so people don't necessarily want
(07:17):
to live next to a highway.
This promotes some developmenton that highway.
Of when you're going to buildthings, you know, build new
housing to try to connect tothis BRT, you're building it
really close to the highway.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That may be not the most desirable for some people
it's just like I mean for mostpeople.
I don't think most people wantto live with an earshot of a
highway, seeing a highway havingthe health effects of being
next to a highway.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
You also don't want to cross a highway.
So, with this running on thenorth side of I-94, you're going
to try to have a catchment areaon the south side of the
highway as well.
So now people have to cross thebridges to get over Not the
most enjoyable experience.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Right, yeah, if you figure.
And when Chris talks about acatchment area and I think I
mentioned it earlier too justpicture a round radius around a
station and think about how farwould you walk to get to a
station or how far would youbike to get to a station, and if
that range is somewhere youknow, half a mile is probably
the farthest end of that formost people and a lot of that
half a mile radius is justliterally taken up by highway.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I also think about people in Minneapolis are
definitely built different thanI am.
I cannot walk half a mile inthe weather, in the cold weather
conditions they get up there.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah , but.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm sure that's not a big issue for some of the
people in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Agreed, agreed, um, yeah, uh, a couple other, a
couple positives or nicefeatures that that the system is
doing.
That I appreciated seeing, um,they're, they're doing pay
before you're bored at eachstation.
So there'll be a way to eithertap or swipe, or whatever it may
be, before you get on the bus,and that may sound like a small
thing, but it actually saves alot of time If you're someone
(08:51):
who doesn't ride a bus.
Every time the bus stops,usually you spend a good bit of
time people getting up there,either paying with a credit card
, putting quarters into themachine, trying to scan a QR
code on their phone, and if fiveor 10 people are getting on at
a given stop, it might take asolid 60 seconds, 90 seconds,
(09:12):
for all those people to get onand sit down before the bus can
start going again.
But with this pay before youboard, folks have already paid
to get on the platform,essentially, and they just walk
on the bus and sit down.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It feels a lot more like a train experience getting
on a light rail than it doesgetting on a bus, totally.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
There's also some trade-offs with it as far as,
like, enforcement of paying thefare and whatnot.
There's a little bit more of atrust system going on.
But again, I think the maingoal here is to get people
moving and I think most peoplewill pay their fare Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
You already mentioned the frequent all-day service.
We don't have.
Like I said, don't have theschedule for that, but stay
tuned.
And then the one that I likethe most is the heated shelters.
Going back to saying thatMinneapolis people are built
differently than I am, I would.
And then the one that I likethe most is the heated shelters.
Going back to saying thatMinneapolis people are built
differently than I am, yeah, Iwould have to have a heated
shelter and that's honestlysomething I wish more transit
agencies built into their system, because we have sat at some
very cold bus stops Totally, andI've actually seen even on some
(10:10):
busy local routes in theMinneapolis-St Paul area.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I've seen images and videos on Twitter of heated
things where you can literallywalk into like it's like a glass
, usually like bus stop or likeplexiglass or whatever, and
there's a button you pressinside and it turns on the
heater when you get in there andit probably stays on for a
couple minutes or whatever.
Pretty cool, yeah.
But yeah, a couple otherbenefits here, though We've got
(10:33):
limited stops to keep the busesmoving.
Obviously, if you do too manystops it's going to take a while
, so the stop spacing is prettynice along the route.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Also signal priority.
Which we hammer on a lot in ourreviews of Transit and City is
that buses and on-street tramsthey need signal priority.
This will have the signalpriority where it encounters
intersections.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Totally, and it's interesting.
There's like technology in thebuses that will essentially
allow the drivers to ask for anextended green light or for a
green light to change fasterfrom a red to a green, which is
pretty, pretty cool, and we seethat in some places.
Even in Austin, apparently,there are a couple places where
buses can do that, and I thinkI've seen some of it along the
801 and 803.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
There's also some like on Fifth Street.
Near the Whole Foods there's asection where they can signal
priority.
There's a couple places in town.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yep, yep, but yeah, with that let's move into
expected ridership.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, expected ridership starts off around
6,500 people a day.
They expect that to increase toabout 9,000 people per day by
2020.
I'm sorry, by 2040.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So for context, you know to compare that 6,500 or
9,000 riders a day.
The busiest bus in the cityright now sees about 10,000
riders per day.
So this will be a verywell-used route.
On the system I-94, which thisruns along, sees a lot of
traffic.
Hopefully this will kind ofhelp alleviate some of that and
(12:02):
also offer folks who commutealong the corridor an
alternative to sitting intraffic every day, to instead
sitting on a nice bus and havingit whisk them away to downtown.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, this will also serve a lot of low-income
communities in this area.
As you said, about 13% of thehouseholds don't own a vehicle.
That obviously doesn'tcorrelate to necessarily
low-income communities, but alot of these communities may not
have a car or it may beeconomically beneficial for them
to take the bus into downtownSt Paul and then the train to
Minneapolis or wherever theyneed to go.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It's also worth noting that there is a planned
expansion to the Gold Line whichwill continue this route all
the way to Minneapolis, totallyAlong with this project.
We kind of talk about theimportance of housing and
transit.
A lot now on this channel We'vedone, if you're interested, we
actually had a reallyinteresting episode with a
friend of ours named Cutter whokind of works in that space here
(12:55):
in austin.
Um, we'll put a link for folkswho are interested.
But there are quite a fewpotential areas for transit
oriented development along thisline.
So a couple stations inparticular include the etna
station, the sunrise station uh,the maple wood station, as well
as the last couple stations onthe line, uh, which are
currently set up more as parkand rides.
(13:15):
Um, there's a lot of room overthere.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, looking at the satellite imagery, a lot of sort
of woodland around thoseparking ride stations.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And you know others include, like the Sunray station
that I mentioned is essentiallya strip mall.
You know we've talked about howthose can be kind of
redeveloped in a couple episodeson the show as well.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Your favorite phrase.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yes, where you see surface parking lots, I see
potential.
I keep saying we're going tomake a t-shirt for that, but
maybe by the time this comes,out, I'll make a t-shirt.
With those transit-orienteddevelopments, though the one
thing I will point out is, again, they're going to be along a
highway.
It's not the best spot for this, and this is like an issue that
(13:59):
we see in cities in the us andnorth america in general is that
so often dense housing, likeit's always built on just
terrible roads for the most part, not always, but, and
oftentimes it'll be concentratedon these main arterial roads um
, because folks in theneighborhoods don't want an
apartment in their neighborhood,and you end up with tons of
folks living on these reallybusy, dangerous roads that are.
(14:22):
Yeah, it's not a great scenario, but it's kind of what we have,
so we'll take it, I guess.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
The Gold Line is not the only development that's
really happening in this St Paularea.
There are other lines, like theGreen Line.
We're not really going to getinto those, but if you are
interested in learning moreabout what St Paul and
Minneapolis area, what they'redoing, there is a great website.
When you look up or you kind ofGoogle, the Gold Line kind of
goes through all the otherconnections that are going to
kind of intersect with this line.
(14:52):
So a lot of good connectivity, alot of really good work.
A lot of good connectivity, alot of really good work, I think
, coming out of this area.
We do want to sort of comparethis to some other lines in the
area that are labeled as BRT,but they're not really BRT, as
we mentioned in our BRT episode.
When we talk about BRT, weexpect it to be a pretty much
(15:16):
separated network from your roadnetworks, that's, dedicated
bridges and tunnels andintersections that are meant
just for this, stations that areoff the road, that sort of
thing.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
The best example of that in the world is probably
the I think it's theTransmilenio in Bogota.
There are in Central and SouthAmerica.
There are a lot of goodexamples, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Buenos Aires has really great.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
VRT, yep.
Not tons in the US or Canadafor the most part, but there are
some coming.
But this line that we're goingto focus on right now, the B
line and, like Chris said, thereare others like this already
existing in Minneapolis andothers under development the B
line is one that will also openthis year.
It is a 12-mile route currentlybeing served by the 21 bus.
(16:00):
The 21 bus, for context, is thebusiest local bus route in the
Minneapolis-St Paul area.
The route runs kind of justsouth of the downtowns and kind
of runs east-west, connectingthem in between.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Essentially, it makes a beeline between Minneapolis
and St Paul.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It makes a beeline between south Minneapolis and
south St Paul.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, as you said, that 21 route is the busiest
route in the sort of metro areaand it serves about 9,000 riders
per day currently.
It's comparable to what theGold Route will have in 2040.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Right.
Also notable, this is not goingto run in any dedicated busways
for the most part.
There might be a few areaswhere there's a lane for a
period of time, uh, but itmostly is running with mixed
traffic.
Um, the reason for this isthere's not that much room on
the right of way here.
Uh, it's running throughneighborhoods, it's running
(16:54):
through businesses and all thatsort of stuff.
Um, there's, without taking alot of extra land, there's
really just not space, unlessyou were to do something drastic
, which I'm totally in favor of,things like this, when there
are parallel cross streets andwhatnot.
I mean you could, in time, turnsomething like this into a
transit corridor.
It's not being proposed oranything right now, but I was
(17:15):
about to say like, oh, it makestotal sense.
You could never do this, youcould do this sort of thing, but
I'll take this for now.
A couple of the features,though, we want to go over that,
surprisingly, are actuallysimilar to along the Gold Line,
which I like to see, the firstbeing we're seeing
pay-before-you-board again atevery station along this line,
yeah, which is great.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
There's also about one station for every 0.4 miles,
so less frequent stops than alocal line.
So it gets us a little closerto BRT, almost more like an
express line.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Totally yeah.
We're seeing larger vehiclesand more frequent service than
what the 21 used to have.
Bendy buses.
Yes, there will be bendy buses.
You were looking at me smirking.
I was like what?
Yes, there will be bendy buses.
That's just my face, lewis.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I smirk.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And as well as more frequent service.
So I would imagine and folks,if you ride the 21 in the area,
let us know, but I'd imagine the21, given the ridership, you
probably see a lot of standingroom only on the bus and whatnot
.
Hopefully this will helpalleviate that sort of thing by
providing both more frequentbuses, and when the buses do
come, they will be bigger.
And then another thing that Ithought was interesting here the
(18:22):
stations.
It's not like one uniformstation throughout.
They're going to vary based onwhere they are along the route.
So with a route like this, youknow, some of the stations are
going to be much more dense andwill have more amenities at the
stops.
They'll be nicer, they mighthave more shade or heated stops
or anything like that, whereassome of these are more
surrounded in single familyneighborhoods.
They're not going to see asmuch ridership and maybe a more
(18:45):
traditional bus shelter makessense there.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
So a lot of positives there.
We can kind of talk about prosand cons a little bit.
One of the cons, if we'recomparing these two projects, is
that the beeline is going to beslower than the gold line.
It is mixed in with traffic.
It is harder to do signalpriority that way it doesn't
have the whole dedicated rightaway the whole way through this
(19:08):
part of the city.
So it is going to be a littleslower.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
At the same time, it is also going to be much cheaper
to construct this sort of thing.
But again, there is thattrade-off there We've talked
about this a little bit beforethe phrase BRT creep, and I want
to spend a second on this,actually.
So the idea of BRT creep is thatyou know, you propose, oh,
(19:31):
we're going to do this great BRTline, something that looks more
like the gold line, dedicatedright-of-way, the whole way
bridges, signal priority, allthis sort of stuff.
And then as the projectcontinues along the process and
things start to go over budgetand oh, this might be more
expensive than we thought orthis is going to take too much
time slowly the project getswhittled down, and whittled down
(19:52):
, and whittled down, and now youjust have a bus, a regular bus,
that sits in traffic witheverything else that doesn't
have signal priority, and sure,you might have saved some money
or done it on time, but you nolonger really have BRT.
At best you have BRT light, andthis is something that, like
this, is a big reason why I feellike I push for light rail in a
lot of cases when it makessense is because it's harder to
(20:15):
have BRT creep when you're doinga light rail necessarily,
although you can you can runinto the same issues.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Once you build a light rail it's also a lot
harder to justify stopping thatservice.
What we've seen with BRTHouston's a good example.
You have areas near the sort ofGalleria area, uptown area of
Houston and you have thisbeautiful dedicated bus lane
that runs through this part ofthe city and it had signal
priority.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Well, it had sort of signal priority at each of the
intersections it could have beenbetter.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
But it is just this nice little strip of bus lane
that's separated by these littlegardens, just as we saw.
It was very easy for the mayorto say, no, we don't need that,
let's use a smaller bus, let'smake it cheaper to operate.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Let's run it less frequently, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
One other thing, too, is studies have shown that with
bus lines and BRT lines, yes,the upfront cost is cheaper to
build these, but over the longterm you spend a little more
than you would on a light railoperation.
With the operations you have topay bus drivers, the buses
require a lot more maintenance.
There's just more operationalexpense that goes into this BRT
(21:23):
line versus light rail, whichcomes with some more streamlined
operations.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, Not to get into the whole light rail thing, but
the concept of BRT creep,though, is not something that
people think about all the time.
I would imagine A few otherpros and cons with this system.
In particular, I think, wellobviously is getting stuck in
traffic.
We've already kind of coveredthat but uh, having these kind
of even brt light lines, uh likethe b line, will be, uh,
(21:48):
totally easier to understandthan a regular bus line for the
most part.
Usually, systems like this arebranded better, they might be
shown differently on the mapsand almost be drawn out more
like a metro line would be or atrain line would be, and I think
it is a good first step forsomeone who isn't a transit
person to like learn how to ridethe bus.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I absolutely agree.
Before starting this podcast,one of my things I was sort of
apprehensive about with buses itwasn't the normal things people
are, you know refuse to ridebuses about, like the people on
the bus and all this kind ofstuff it was.
I don't know where this bus isgoing, right, obviously, google
Maps and Apple Maps, things likethat, do a really good job of
helping you navigate, but buses,it's a little uncertain.
(22:29):
They can deviate from theirexisting path.
A light rail can't do that anda BRT also has a really hard
time doing that hard time doingthat.
Right?
I think that when you havehere's point A, here's point B,
here's exactly where this bus isgoing to go People can wrap
their heads around that a littleeasier, totally.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So I think you know with that, that sort of thing
right there being solved herealso can help with increasing
ridership.
Right, the 21 bus people justsee a bus with a number on it
and like sure, the 21 did run afairly straight line, from what
I can understand by just kind oflooking from afar here.
But having this kind of brandeddifferently, having less stops
(23:04):
on it, having more defined stopson it, makes it easier for
folks to understand who are notnecessarily riding the bus every
day.
And increases service for thepeople who were, because now you
know if you can get on thatexpress bus, essentially, and
skip some of the stops and getto your destination faster,
that's a win.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, we always say buses aren't sexy, but then,
like BRT, maybe people are goingto look at it and be like hey
look at that.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
That's a pretty sexy BRT light, damn.
One other point I want to makehere too, I guess I want to make
here too, I guess.
So, comparing the Gold Line tothe B-Line and other similar
ones, the Gold Line, I think youcould actually have potential
for real TOD to happen, realtransit-oriented development.
(23:48):
With a BRT Lite, I mean, you cansee some of it Again.
You will have higher levels ofridership, and people who live
there and do take transit mightbe like oh, I would rather live
near the B line stop, orsomething.
I would say that it's probablyto a much lesser extent, though.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
that you see significant transit oriented
development around these areasDoesn't mean none, but yeah, and
as you said at the beginning,the feasibility study looked at
light rail in this area,originally with more I think it
was commuter rail, but eitherway, Either way, but with a rail
line, but with more TODs maybebeing built up in this area,
maybe in 40 years.
they look at this and they say,well, now we have the population
(24:28):
to support a light rail and nowwe already have the dedicated
right of way.
So there could be some evenpotential future benefits that
we aren't even aware of.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Totally, but yeah, this was a pretty interesting
one.
Again, this was requested inthe top 10 transit projects to
look forward to in 2025.
Excited to see both the GoldLine, the B Line, as well, as
there were a couple otherlettered lines that are
scheduled to open this year,next year and, I believe, even
into 2027.
So certainly a lot ofinteresting stuff going on in
(24:57):
the Minneapolis-St Paul metroarea.
I'd love to get out there andvisit you all someday.
If you're from the area,definitely reach out.
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Especially if you're part of any sort of Twin Cities
urbanist group.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Please reach out to us.
We'd love to have thosecontacts.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
If you have other projects in that region that you
would like us to focus on,please also share that in the
comments.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
With that.
If you have not already likedthis video, please consider
doing so.
If you haven't rated, if you'relistening on your favorite
podcast platform, consider doingthat.
Give us a subscribe.
If you want to support the showdirectly, the best way to do so
is via our Patreon or bysupporting us directly with our
new merch store.
But with all that being said,no-transcript.
Doors are closing.
Public transit, that's my wayto roll On.
A metro, I'm taking control.
Bus stops, train tracks it's mydaily grind.
Public transit, it's the rhythmof my life.
On this episode of TransitTangents, we discuss new bus
rapid transit lines headed toMinneapolis-St Paul.
(00:23):
We'll compare pros and cons ofthe two models being used and
where they're headed, movingforward.
All of this and more coming upon Transit Tangents.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of
Transit Tangents.
My name's Chris and I'm Lewisand today we are listening to
your feedback from our top 10transit projects to look for in
2025.
We got a lot of comments aboutother projects that we should
have looked at and we arereading those comments and
taking those suggestions.
(00:54):
So today we are going to diveinto the sort of Minneapolis St
Paul area more on the St Paulside Gold Line BRT.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, and we're also going to talk about some of the
light BRT stuff that's happeningas well.
We'll get into one of thoseprojects in particular, but
there's a lot to talk about withthe Gold Line where it's true
BRT, it is dedicated space.
I was really excited when Ilooked into this and saw how
hard you all were going with the.
There's some little tunnels andbridges and it's real, real
(01:25):
dedicated BRT and we don't seethat much of that in the United
States, so pretty excited to doit.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Before we get started , though, we want to call out we
have some new swag, as you'veprobably seen on the YouTube.
On the YouTube little scroller,it shows hoodies and t-shirts
and socks, and stickers and hats.
I am not a hat person, but I'mwearing it today.
So yeah, if you want to supportthe show and you're interested
in some swag, check out thelinks under the video.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Without further ado, though, let's jump into the
episode here.
Let's start off with the goldline, and throughout we're going
to kind of talk about somecomparisons between this gold
line, which is like the true BRT, as well, as we're going to
talk specifically about the Bline, which is another route
that's going to be opening inthe area, and kind of comparing
and contrasting some pros andcons between the true BRT, the
(02:15):
kind of light BRT, things inbetween, as we kind of go.
Have you been to Minneapolis?
I have not been outside of theairport.
Okay, I'd like to go though.
Yeah, yeah, kind of go.
But have you been to theminneapolis?
I have not been outside of theairport okay, I'd like to go
though.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, the bike ability in minneapolis is
supposed to be really great Ithink I think we will at some
point do a minneapolis in a dayusing public transit.
I've been to minneapolis andthe st paul area for work before
and, um, it's a beautiful,beautiful area and the
connectivity between these twocities and all the potential
that's there and already existsis really, really incredible.
Fun fact Minneapolis is theplace first time I ever saw a
(02:49):
frozen lake.
Wow, and I saw it and I waslike why is the water dirty?
And I was like, oh, no, it'sjust ice.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
You can now tell Chris is from the south if you
weren't able to tell that beforeanyway, the gold line uh
scheduled to open this year, in2025, is a 10 mile project,
again with true brtinfrastructure along the route.
Uh, it's scheduled to open inmarch, which by the time this
comes out it might be open likeclose to now, very soon.
(03:18):
Um, it creates 11 new stops,primarily along the i-94
corridor, 16 total stops ingeneral.
Some of them are kind ofoverlap with existing stops in
the downtown St Paul area.
I'm sure some of them are beingreworked, so those numbers
might be a little off as far aswhat's new and what's an
existing station.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, most of the project is fit within an
existing right-of-way, so that'sa huge cost savings, a huge
benefit to the community to beable to use this existing
right-of-way.
You know, fewer chances ofeminent domain and all that kind
of thing.
Yeah, in total there's about93,000 jobs within a half mile
of the station, which is alsohuge for getting commuters
(03:57):
around totally and kind of.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
One last little fact about it is about 13% of the
people who live within that samecashman area of a half a mile
from the station don't own a car.
So this will be a major benefitto folks who already are
relying on transit in the area,and we'll also have the added
benefit of potentially beingappealing to folks who might
(04:19):
have a car but are thinkingabout getting rid of one car and
being a one-car household orlooking for alternatives to
commute into St Paul.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think this is also a good time to call back to our
BRT episode.
If you're curious about whatthe difference between BRT and
other types of bus networks, howthat kind of breaks down.
We have a whole episode aboutBRT.
We don't see a lot of BRT inthe US, so this project's really
exciting because it's sort ofthe best thing we have is like a
real bus rapid transit.
(04:48):
What we see in other cities ismaybe a dedicated bus lane that
then merges back in with regulartraffic.
We see a little bit of thing.
We saw a little bit of movementin Houston with BRTs.
The mayor there has cut most ofthat service, so this is a
really exciting project Totally,and this project has been
(05:09):
floated for a while actually.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So it first came up in the mid-2000s, slash, 2010s.
At one point it was looked atinto doing a rail line in this
area, but ultimately, for costreasons as well as for kind of
ridership projections, theydecided that true, brt was the
way to go.
It essentially is going to actas a bit of a commuter service,
(05:30):
but a more frequent commuterservice, we'll say so.
It's supposed to run serviceall day long.
They don't give exact times onany of the documents here, so
I'm not sure if all day longmeans 24 hours, if it means 6 am
to midnight, I'm not sure ofthe specifics here.
I'm sure we will find out verysoon.
But yeah, and like we said, itruns mostly in that dedicated
(05:52):
right-of-way, so you're going tohave the benefits of not
sitting at stoplights all thetime.
You're going to have transitpriority in a lot of cases along
the line Drivers will not bestuck sitting in traffic.
Essentially, you'll be able tocruise right along on the BRT
line directly into St Paul orback home if you're heading the
other direction.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, when we say it follows the right-of-way, it's
not necessarily like just a laneof the highway that's been
dedicated to this.
It is its own standalonenetwork for most of the path
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, most of it runs on the north side of I-94.
It kind of weaves between a mixof long neighborhood streets
but also just on its ownroadways it bridges over several
intersections.
It goes under severalintersections.
It's pretty cool to actuallylook.
If you're watching, you can see.
If you're listening, I'll tryto describe.
It's really well integrated inand just it exceeded any
(06:46):
expectation that I thought I wasgoing to have of this, at least
seeing the renderings andwhatnot.
Now I have not seen it inperson.
So people in Minneapolis, tellme if I'm wrong.
Or in St Paul, tell me if I'mwrong.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So all in all it sounds like the project's pretty
well organized.
It has its right of way.
It seems like it's going to bedelivered on budget.
It's cost-wise, it's good forthe community.
Some downsides with how thisparticular model in the St Paul
area works out.
With it running along a highwayit's harder to connect
communities, I think in a way,so people don't necessarily want
(07:17):
to live next to a highway.
This promotes some developmenton that highway.
Of when you're going to buildthings, you know, build new
housing to try to connect tothis BRT, you're building it
really close to the highway.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That may be not the most desirable for some people
it's just like I mean for mostpeople.
I don't think most people wantto live with an earshot of a
highway, seeing a highway havingthe health effects of being
next to a highway.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
You also don't want to cross a highway.
So, with this running on thenorth side of I-94, you're going
to try to have a catchment areaon the south side of the
highway as well.
So now people have to cross thebridges to get over Not the
most enjoyable experience.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Right, yeah, if you figure.
And when Chris talks about acatchment area and I think I
mentioned it earlier too justpicture a round radius around a
station and think about how farwould you walk to get to a
station or how far would youbike to get to a station, and if
that range is somewhere youknow, half a mile is probably
the farthest end of that formost people and a lot of that
half a mile radius is justliterally taken up by highway.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I also think about people in Minneapolis are
definitely built different thanI am.
I cannot walk half a mile inthe weather, in the cold weather
conditions they get up there.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah , but.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm sure that's not a big issue for some of the
people in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Agreed, agreed, um, yeah, uh, a couple other, a
couple positives or nicefeatures that that the system is
doing.
That I appreciated seeing, um,they're, they're doing pay
before you're bored at eachstation.
So there'll be a way to eithertap or swipe, or whatever it may
be, before you get on the bus,and that may sound like a small
thing, but it actually saves alot of time If you're someone
(08:51):
who doesn't ride a bus.
Every time the bus stops,usually you spend a good bit of
time people getting up there,either paying with a credit card
, putting quarters into themachine, trying to scan a QR
code on their phone, and if fiveor 10 people are getting on at
a given stop, it might take asolid 60 seconds, 90 seconds,
(09:12):
for all those people to get onand sit down before the bus can
start going again.
But with this pay before youboard, folks have already paid
to get on the platform,essentially, and they just walk
on the bus and sit down.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It feels a lot more like a train experience getting
on a light rail than it doesgetting on a bus, totally.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
There's also some trade-offs with it as far as,
like, enforcement of paying thefare and whatnot.
There's a little bit more of atrust system going on.
But again, I think the maingoal here is to get people
moving and I think most peoplewill pay their fare Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
You already mentioned the frequent all-day service.
We don't have.
Like I said, don't have theschedule for that, but stay
tuned.
And then the one that I likethe most is the heated shelters.
Going back to saying thatMinneapolis people are built
differently than I am, I would.
And then the one that I likethe most is the heated shelters.
Going back to saying thatMinneapolis people are built
differently than I am, yeah, Iwould have to have a heated
shelter and that's honestlysomething I wish more transit
agencies built into their system, because we have sat at some
very cold bus stops Totally, andI've actually seen even on some
(10:10):
busy local routes in theMinneapolis-St Paul area.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I've seen images and videos on Twitter of heated
things where you can literallywalk into like it's like a glass
, usually like bus stop or likeplexiglass or whatever, and
there's a button you pressinside and it turns on the
heater when you get in there andit probably stays on for a
couple minutes or whatever.
Pretty cool, yeah.
But yeah, a couple otherbenefits here, though We've got
(10:33):
limited stops to keep the busesmoving.
Obviously, if you do too manystops it's going to take a while
, so the stop spacing is prettynice along the route.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Also signal priority.
Which we hammer on a lot in ourreviews of Transit and City is
that buses and on-street tramsthey need signal priority.
This will have the signalpriority where it encounters
intersections.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Totally, and it's interesting.
There's like technology in thebuses that will essentially
allow the drivers to ask for anextended green light or for a
green light to change fasterfrom a red to a green, which is
pretty, pretty cool, and we seethat in some places.
Even in Austin, apparently,there are a couple places where
buses can do that, and I thinkI've seen some of it along the
801 and 803.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
There's also some like on Fifth Street.
Near the Whole Foods there's asection where they can signal
priority.
There's a couple places in town.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yep, yep, but yeah, with that let's move into
expected ridership.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, expected ridership starts off around
6,500 people a day.
They expect that to increase toabout 9,000 people per day by
2020.
I'm sorry, by 2040.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So for context, you know to compare that 6,500 or
9,000 riders a day.
The busiest bus in the cityright now sees about 10,000
riders per day.
So this will be a verywell-used route.
On the system I-94, which thisruns along, sees a lot of
traffic.
Hopefully this will kind ofhelp alleviate some of that and
(12:02):
also offer folks who commutealong the corridor an
alternative to sitting intraffic every day, to instead
sitting on a nice bus and havingit whisk them away to downtown.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, this will also serve a lot of low-income
communities in this area.
As you said, about 13% of thehouseholds don't own a vehicle.
That obviously doesn'tcorrelate to necessarily
low-income communities, but alot of these communities may not
have a car or it may beeconomically beneficial for them
to take the bus into downtownSt Paul and then the train to
Minneapolis or wherever theyneed to go.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It's also worth noting that there is a planned
expansion to the Gold Line whichwill continue this route all
the way to Minneapolis, totallyAlong with this project.
We kind of talk about theimportance of housing and
transit.
A lot now on this channel We'vedone, if you're interested, we
actually had a reallyinteresting episode with a
friend of ours named Cutter whokind of works in that space here
(12:55):
in austin.
Um, we'll put a link for folkswho are interested.
But there are quite a fewpotential areas for transit
oriented development along thisline.
So a couple stations inparticular include the etna
station, the sunrise station uh,the maple wood station, as well
as the last couple stations onthe line, uh, which are
currently set up more as parkand rides.
(13:15):
Um, there's a lot of room overthere.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, looking at the satellite imagery, a lot of sort
of woodland around thoseparking ride stations.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And you know others include, like the Sunray station
that I mentioned is essentiallya strip mall.
You know we've talked about howthose can be kind of
redeveloped in a couple episodeson the show as well.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Your favorite phrase.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yes, where you see surface parking lots, I see
potential.
I keep saying we're going tomake a t-shirt for that, but
maybe by the time this comes,out, I'll make a t-shirt.
With those transit-orienteddevelopments, though the one
thing I will point out is, again, they're going to be along a
highway.
It's not the best spot for this, and this is like an issue that
(13:59):
we see in cities in the us andnorth america in general is that
so often dense housing, likeit's always built on just
terrible roads for the most part, not always, but, and
oftentimes it'll be concentratedon these main arterial roads um
, because folks in theneighborhoods don't want an
apartment in their neighborhood,and you end up with tons of
folks living on these reallybusy, dangerous roads that are.
(14:22):
Yeah, it's not a great scenario, but it's kind of what we have,
so we'll take it, I guess.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
The Gold Line is not the only development that's
really happening in this St Paularea.
There are other lines, like theGreen Line.
We're not really going to getinto those, but if you are
interested in learning moreabout what St Paul and
Minneapolis area, what they'redoing, there is a great website.
When you look up or you kind ofGoogle, the Gold Line kind of
goes through all the otherconnections that are going to
kind of intersect with this line.
(14:52):
So a lot of good connectivity, alot of really good work.
A lot of good connectivity, alot of really good work, I think
, coming out of this area.
We do want to sort of comparethis to some other lines in the
area that are labeled as BRT,but they're not really BRT, as
we mentioned in our BRT episode.
When we talk about BRT, weexpect it to be a pretty much
(15:16):
separated network from your roadnetworks, that's, dedicated
bridges and tunnels andintersections that are meant
just for this, stations that areoff the road, that sort of
thing.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
The best example of that in the world is probably
the I think it's theTransmilenio in Bogota.
There are in Central and SouthAmerica.
There are a lot of goodexamples, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Buenos Aires has really great.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
VRT, yep.
Not tons in the US or Canadafor the most part, but there are
some coming.
But this line that we're goingto focus on right now, the B
line and, like Chris said, thereare others like this already
existing in Minneapolis andothers under development the B
line is one that will also openthis year.
It is a 12-mile route currentlybeing served by the 21 bus.
(16:00):
The 21 bus, for context, is thebusiest local bus route in the
Minneapolis-St Paul area.
The route runs kind of justsouth of the downtowns and kind
of runs east-west, connectingthem in between.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Essentially, it makes a beeline between Minneapolis
and St Paul.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It makes a beeline between south Minneapolis and
south St Paul.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, as you said, that 21 route is the busiest
route in the sort of metro areaand it serves about 9,000 riders
per day currently.
It's comparable to what theGold Route will have in 2040.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Right.
Also notable, this is not goingto run in any dedicated busways
for the most part.
There might be a few areaswhere there's a lane for a
period of time, uh, but itmostly is running with mixed
traffic.
Um, the reason for this isthere's not that much room on
the right of way here.
Uh, it's running throughneighborhoods, it's running
(16:54):
through businesses and all thatsort of stuff.
Um, there's, without taking alot of extra land, there's
really just not space, unlessyou were to do something drastic
, which I'm totally in favor of,things like this, when there
are parallel cross streets andwhatnot.
I mean you could, in time, turnsomething like this into a
transit corridor.
It's not being proposed oranything right now, but I was
(17:15):
about to say like, oh, it makestotal sense.
You could never do this, youcould do this sort of thing, but
I'll take this for now.
A couple of the features,though, we want to go over that,
surprisingly, are actuallysimilar to along the Gold Line,
which I like to see, the firstbeing we're seeing
pay-before-you-board again atevery station along this line,
yeah, which is great.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
There's also about one station for every 0.4 miles,
so less frequent stops than alocal line.
So it gets us a little closerto BRT, almost more like an
express line.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Totally yeah.
We're seeing larger vehiclesand more frequent service than
what the 21 used to have.
Bendy buses.
Yes, there will be bendy buses.
You were looking at me smirking.
I was like what?
Yes, there will be bendy buses.
That's just my face, lewis.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I smirk.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And as well as more frequent service.
So I would imagine and folks,if you ride the 21 in the area,
let us know, but I'd imagine the21, given the ridership, you
probably see a lot of standingroom only on the bus and whatnot
.
Hopefully this will helpalleviate that sort of thing by
providing both more frequentbuses, and when the buses do
come, they will be bigger.
And then another thing that Ithought was interesting here the
(18:22):
stations.
It's not like one uniformstation throughout.
They're going to vary based onwhere they are along the route.
So with a route like this, youknow, some of the stations are
going to be much more dense andwill have more amenities at the
stops.
They'll be nicer, they mighthave more shade or heated stops
or anything like that, whereassome of these are more
surrounded in single familyneighborhoods.
They're not going to see asmuch ridership and maybe a more
(18:45):
traditional bus shelter makessense there.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
So a lot of positives there.
We can kind of talk about prosand cons a little bit.
One of the cons, if we'recomparing these two projects, is
that the beeline is going to beslower than the gold line.
It is mixed in with traffic.
It is harder to do signalpriority that way it doesn't
have the whole dedicated rightaway the whole way through this
(19:08):
part of the city.
So it is going to be a littleslower.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
At the same time, it is also going to be much cheaper
to construct this sort of thing.
But again, there is thattrade-off there We've talked
about this a little bit beforethe phrase BRT creep, and I want
to spend a second on this,actually.
So the idea of BRT creep is thatyou know, you propose, oh,
(19:31):
we're going to do this great BRTline, something that looks more
like the gold line, dedicatedright-of-way, the whole way
bridges, signal priority, allthis sort of stuff.
And then as the projectcontinues along the process and
things start to go over budgetand oh, this might be more
expensive than we thought orthis is going to take too much
time slowly the project getswhittled down, and whittled down
(19:52):
, and whittled down, and now youjust have a bus, a regular bus,
that sits in traffic witheverything else that doesn't
have signal priority, and sure,you might have saved some money
or done it on time, but you nolonger really have BRT.
At best you have BRT light, andthis is something that, like
this, is a big reason why I feellike I push for light rail in a
lot of cases when it makessense is because it's harder to
(20:15):
have BRT creep when you're doinga light rail necessarily,
although you can you can runinto the same issues.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Once you build a light rail it's also a lot
harder to justify stopping thatservice.
What we've seen with BRTHouston's a good example.
You have areas near the sort ofGalleria area, uptown area of
Houston and you have thisbeautiful dedicated bus lane
that runs through this part ofthe city and it had signal
priority.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Well, it had sort of signal priority at each of the
intersections it could have beenbetter.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
But it is just this nice little strip of bus lane
that's separated by these littlegardens, just as we saw.
It was very easy for the mayorto say, no, we don't need that,
let's use a smaller bus, let'smake it cheaper to operate.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Let's run it less frequently, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
One other thing, too, is studies have shown that with
bus lines and BRT lines, yes,the upfront cost is cheaper to
build these, but over the longterm you spend a little more
than you would on a light railoperation.
With the operations you have topay bus drivers, the buses
require a lot more maintenance.
There's just more operationalexpense that goes into this BRT
(21:23):
line versus light rail, whichcomes with some more streamlined
operations.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, Not to get into the whole light rail thing, but
the concept of BRT creep,though, is not something that
people think about all the time.
I would imagine A few otherpros and cons with this system.
In particular, I think, wellobviously is getting stuck in
traffic.
We've already kind of coveredthat but uh, having these kind
of even brt light lines, uh likethe b line, will be, uh,
(21:48):
totally easier to understandthan a regular bus line for the
most part.
Usually, systems like this arebranded better, they might be
shown differently on the mapsand almost be drawn out more
like a metro line would be or atrain line would be, and I think
it is a good first step forsomeone who isn't a transit
person to like learn how to ridethe bus.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I absolutely agree.
Before starting this podcast,one of my things I was sort of
apprehensive about with buses itwasn't the normal things people
are, you know refuse to ridebuses about, like the people on
the bus and all this kind ofstuff it was.
I don't know where this bus isgoing, right, obviously, google
Maps and Apple Maps, things likethat, do a really good job of
helping you navigate, but buses,it's a little uncertain.
(22:29):
They can deviate from theirexisting path.
A light rail can't do that anda BRT also has a really hard
time doing that hard time doingthat.
Right?
I think that when you havehere's point A, here's point B,
here's exactly where this bus isgoing to go People can wrap
their heads around that a littleeasier, totally.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So I think you know with that, that sort of thing
right there being solved herealso can help with increasing
ridership.
Right, the 21 bus people justsee a bus with a number on it
and like sure, the 21 did run afairly straight line, from what
I can understand by just kind oflooking from afar here.
But having this kind of brandeddifferently, having less stops
(23:04):
on it, having more defined stopson it, makes it easier for
folks to understand who are notnecessarily riding the bus every
day.
And increases service for thepeople who were, because now you
know if you can get on thatexpress bus, essentially, and
skip some of the stops and getto your destination faster,
that's a win.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, we always say buses aren't sexy, but then,
like BRT, maybe people are goingto look at it and be like hey
look at that.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
That's a pretty sexy BRT light, damn.
One other point I want to makehere too, I guess I want to make
here too, I guess.
So, comparing the Gold Line tothe B-Line and other similar
ones, the Gold Line, I think youcould actually have potential
for real TOD to happen, realtransit-oriented development.
(23:48):
With a BRT Lite, I mean, you cansee some of it Again.
You will have higher levels ofridership, and people who live
there and do take transit mightbe like oh, I would rather live
near the B line stop, orsomething.
I would say that it's probablyto a much lesser extent, though.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
that you see significant transit oriented
development around these areasDoesn't mean none, but yeah, and
as you said at the beginning,the feasibility study looked at
light rail in this area,originally with more I think it
was commuter rail, but eitherway, Either way, but with a rail
line, but with more TODs maybebeing built up in this area,
maybe in 40 years.
they look at this and they say,well, now we have the population
(24:28):
to support a light rail and nowwe already have the dedicated
right of way.
So there could be some evenpotential future benefits that
we aren't even aware of.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Totally, but yeah, this was a pretty interesting
one.
Again, this was requested inthe top 10 transit projects to
look forward to in 2025.
Excited to see both the GoldLine, the B Line, as well, as
there were a couple otherlettered lines that are
scheduled to open this year,next year and, I believe, even
into 2027.
So certainly a lot ofinteresting stuff going on in
(24:57):
the Minneapolis-St Paul metroarea.
I'd love to get out there andvisit you all someday.
If you're from the area,definitely reach out.
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Especially if you're part of any sort of Twin Cities
urbanist group.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Please reach out to us.
We'd love to have thosecontacts.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
If you have other projects in that region that you
would like us to focus on,please also share that in the
comments.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
With that.
If you have not already likedthis video, please consider
doing so.
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Give us a subscribe.
If you want to support the showdirectly, the best way to do so
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But with all that being said,no-transcript.
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