August 11, 2025 • 48 mins
Dr. William T. Lewis shares his story of being fired from his “dream job” and how it became the turning point for his entrepreneurial success and his new book, Perched in the Storm. Discover how to navigate career storms and develop the Seven Behaviors of Resilient Leaders.
✅ Career storms are inevitable—you're in one, coming out of one, or heading toward one
✅ Losing a “dream job” can open doors to unexpected opportunities
✅ Mindset mastery, adaptability, and emotional intelligence are key to resilience
✅ Build your personal brand and integrate work and life for lasting success
✅ Career interruptions can lead to greater purpose and fulfillment
Connect with Dr. Lewis:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-t-lewis-msw-phd-b545a62b/
- Website: https://www.wtlewis.com/drlewis
- Pre-order his book: https://www.wtlewis.com/perch
- Email: william@wtlewis.com
0:00 Dream Job Termination
9:45 Dr. Lewis's Firing Story
17:57 The Reality of Dream Jobs
22:10 Perched in the Storm
31:38 Seven Behaviors of Resilient Leaders
40:32 Work-Life Integration
47:32 Finding Strength Through Storms
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We all dream of that perfect role, our dream job.
But what happens when the jobyou've worked your butt off for
ends up with a termination?
My guest today, dr WilliamLewis, knows that pain firsthand
.
In his new book, perched in theStorm, he shares how losing his
dream job became the catalystfor becoming a successful
(00:23):
entrepreneur and mentor to manyleaders and people all across
the world.
In this episode, we'll unpackhis story, challenge the idea of
a dream job and give you sevenbehaviors you need to navigate
your career through tough storms.
Now let's get into it, hey, andwelcome back to the Transparent
(01:00):
Nature podcast, where we bringreal conversations to help you
navigate your career andworkplace challenges.
It's your host, prince Tate,and I want to personally thank
you for listening in andsupporting this podcast.
If you are a returning guest,or even if this is your first
time tuning in, we'd love foryou to hit that subscribe button
(01:20):
, share this episode with afriend who can benefit from this
topic today and leave us areview.
Your support continues to helpus to bring real, great insights
to help you succeed in yourcareer and within your workplace
.
Today we have Dr Lewis.
Welcome to the podcast.
(01:41):
How are you today?
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
How are you today, my goodness, you know what.
Your energy is so magnanimousthat I am good today.
I'm trying to get off of yourenergy.
I'm trying to feel that vibethat you brought in.
I am feeling great today.
Thank you for having me on thepodcast today.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Man, I love that word you said magnanimous.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, big and magnanim , it's just big.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I love that.
I'm going to put that in mydictionary vocabulary.
I'm just going to start usingthat this whole week.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
That is how you own a word.
My English teacher I'm backback and I think my 12th grade
English English teacher told uswhenever we read something and
there's a word that we don'tknow for us to define it, then
for us to use it on our friendsand our families, on our
families, and then we own thatword.
And so use it and own it.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Man, I love it, hey.
So look, we're super excited tohave you with us today, but
before we dive into today'stopic and getting into your book
and talking about the sevenbehaviors of resilient leaders,
tell us one of your topworkplace pet peeves that always
(03:00):
irks your nerves.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oh my goodness, I don't necessarily like workplace
gossip.
I want to come to work, I wantto get the work done.
You know, I believe in sharingstories and engaging with each
other, but I don't like togossip about other folks, and so
when my colleagues, or whencolleagues began to do that, I
kind of stepped away.
That's something that I justdon't want to get into.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You know I always tell people that end up in the
HR office.
Hey, workplace gossip, we knowit happens all the time.
But you have to be cognizant ofwhat you talk about and what
you share, because at the pointof it escalating to HR, now
everybody's in trouble.
(03:45):
Now it's a problem.
Yes, it is a problem, right andso you have to be careful, and
you know what?
That's another episode foranother day workplace gossip.
So hey, let's get into yourstory, man, and even talk about
this book that you've written,and really talk about the why.
(04:05):
Dr Lewis, you've writtenPerched in the Storm out of some
deep personal experiences.
Can you take us back to thatmoment where it all began, where
you got let go or what we callfired from what you thought was
one of your dream jobs?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm just so excited to bring,Perched in the Storm, Brutal
Lessons in Resiliency Everyleader can learn from
entrepreneurs to the market.
It will be out later on in thewintertime.
I'm excited about this project.
You know, getting fired is notsomething that's unique.
(04:49):
I believe that many of us havebeen fired before.
As a matter of fact, I remembermy first time that I got fired
was when I was 14.
I worked at Burger King.
I worked at Burger King and theyfound out that I was too young
to be employed.
I applied on my application andthey found out about a week
(05:12):
later and I was fired from myjob.
But the stakes weren't thathigh at 14 working at Burger
King.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Man, I'm going to tell you this that was my first
employer, is that right?
I worked at Burger King in highschool and no, I was not 14.
I was actually legal age, Ithink it was 16, when I first
got into there, into Burger King.
But, man, I tell you what I'vegot some long history with
Burger King, and what made itreally interesting was that I
(05:46):
didn't just work at Burger King.
I had another brother thatworked at the same location and
another one, so it was three ofus working at the same time, and
so you know, it's a lot ofgreat memories, a lot of great
memories, but anyways, so yeah,so you worked there.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So I worked there, but that's not the moral of the
story.
The moral of the story is thatI worked at my dream job, which,
interesting enough, which Ithought was my dream job I was
the vice president for diversityand inclusion at Virginia Tech
(06:27):
back in 2010 to 2014.
And I was loving it.
My entire career was in highereducation.
I loved Blacksburg, loved thecollege, loved the students,
loved the work that I was doing.
But we had a new president thatcame in and his direction for
(06:51):
diversity, equity and inclusionwas not my well, I was not part
of his direction, if you will,and so I was fired from my job,
and from a professionalstandpoint, from an adult
standpoint, that was the firsttime ever I've ever been fired
from my job.
And from a professionalstandpoint, from an adult
standpoint, that was the firsttime ever I've ever been fired
from a job.
I always say it to myself andthis was somewhat, one may say,
(07:15):
arrogant, but I always say itthat whenever I get into a job,
it's going to be gold, becauseI'm going to make it gold.
And so that was the attitude Ibrought to that particular job,
and I enjoyed it.
I was in the high six figuresloving life, living life, just
doing it right In my early 40s,just about to set the world on
(07:38):
fire, and I had this careerinterruption.
And you know, what theinteresting thing is is that it
wasn't the firing.
I was going to be okay.
I knew that I was going to beokay.
I had the credentials, I hadthe PhD, I had the experience, I
(07:58):
had the title.
So I had all the things thatwould make someone OK after a
firing.
My challenge was getting hiredafter the firing because the
firing there.
I didn't get fired forembezzlement.
I didn't get fired for sexualmisconduct.
(08:21):
I didn't get fired forincompetency sexual misconduct I
didn't get fired forincompetency.
I got fired for politicalreasons.
And so it's always so wheneveryou get fired for political
reasons, people always want tosay what happened?
You had to do something.
I didn't do anything.
I did my job, but there werepolitical reasons behind the
(08:43):
firing, and so every otheremployer that I that I
interviewed for, and, and Prince, let me tell you I went from
all over the United States.
I went as far as California toNew York, to Florida, to
Michigan and every place inbetween, looking for a job for
(09:05):
nearly two years.
I was on the job market for twoyears looking for a job for that
next level and couldn't get it.
That's where I really had tostep into resiliency.
As a matter of fact, that'swhere depression really seeped
in.
That's where the lowest lowest,where I was at my lowest point
(09:27):
in my life, was during those twoyears, searching for another
job and couldn't get it.
Now I began to to feel like animposter.
I asked myself well did, wereyou good enough to even get the
first job?
Were you good enough to evenget the first job?
And I had two higher levelpositions prior to this one, so
(09:48):
it wasn't like this was thefirst job that I had in senior
leadership.
I worked in two other positionsbefore getting that position.
But not being able to get intoanother position as quickly as I
thought I would did somethingto me.
It really impacted meemotionally, it impacted me
(10:09):
spiritually, it impacted mefinancially.
So this book Perched in theStorm it reminded me as I was
going through that and othercircumstances.
It reminded me of a bird thatis on this limb in the middle of
(10:34):
a storm, kind of a tsunami typeof storm, if you will.
And this bird is just perchedthere, steady, unmoved, not
unbothered, when you look at thebird, you see the feathers kind
of ruffled, if you will, butthe bird is there.
(10:55):
It's wet, the wind is trying toknock it off of the branch, but
the bird is there perched.
This book speaks about beingperched in the storm, and what I
had to learn through thatfiring and through not getting
hired for nearly two years isthat I was going through a storm
and I had to be perched.
(11:15):
I had to be steady and it justdidn't.
I had to learn it over timebecause let me tell you
something, as I was goingthrough it, my goodness, that
wind was knocking me down.
I was being, I was going fromplace to place, I was being
sprayed all over the placerelated to that wind and the
trauma of the storm, but comingout of it, it made me stronger
(11:39):
and I wanted to share thatlesson with others, because this
is what I realized no matterwho you are, no matter your age,
your race, your wealth, yourposition, your title, we all go
through storms.
We're either in a storm.
We're either coming out of astorm or we're going into a
(12:02):
storm.
A storm or we're going into astorm.
So perched in a storm is forevery leader.
And a leader is not about atitle.
We're not talking aboutsomebody that has the title of
vice president or divisionleader or division manager.
We're talking about leadingyourself, leading your family,
having influence over othersEverybody who's listening to
(12:24):
this podcast.
They have influence oversomeone else and others, and so
leader that definition of leaderthis book is for everyone
because, in my mind, everyone'sa leader.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, and you know, let's take it back a little bit.
You know you talked about yourdream job and what you thought
was your dream job and I thinkfor a lot of people, especially
young professionals orindividuals that segwaying into
like an actual career.
A lot of times they say, well,this is my dream job.
(12:58):
I want to work, you know, atthe White House, I want to work
for this Fortune 500 company.
You know, I want to be at thecorporate office, I want to do
this job, I want to do that.
And then you get into the roleand you quickly learn that you
know what you thought was adream like, now it becomes
(13:21):
something of reality that'stotally different than from what
you dreamt about.
Right, and so kind of talk alittle bit about you know this
misconception that there is thisthing such thing as a dream job
, because my notion is there'sno such thing as a dream job.
(13:41):
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that you know.
I think that I don't disagreewith you in terms of the
challenges of getting the joband aligning that job with the
realities.
I think people can't have asense of a dream job, but
sometimes a dream can turn intoa nightmare very quickly, and so
what you have to do is you haveto begin to just realize the
(14:05):
realities of what you're in andthat nothing's perfect.
So to your point.
First of all, I would invitepeople to think about alignment.
So there are three differententry points into the job the
job description, the interviewand the actual job.
And so what you have to do isyou have to align.
(14:26):
Every time you go through thatphase, each phase, you have to
make an alignment, adjustment.
So the job description is goingto be totally different than
the interview.
So what you experience in jobdescription and what you
experience in the interview isdifferent, and so you have to
begin to make adjustments andalign that description and the
interview, because once peoplesit down with you in the
(14:46):
interview, it's hardly ever ascut and dry in the interview as
it says on a job description,right, and so that's the first
thing we have to do Then, as weget into the interview and if we
have a job offer and if we'reon the ground, the realities on
the ground are different thanthe realities in the interview.
(15:08):
People are bringing their bestselves into the interview.
Once you get into that job, onthe job, it's a whole nother
experience and the expectationsit shifts a little bit.
And so I would say that as yougo through what you believe is
your dream job but this is forany job as you go through that
job process, that job searchprocess, always make those
(15:30):
tweaks and those alignments andbegin to make expectation
adjustments.
Once you get the job, have analignment, meeting with your
supervisor.
Ok, I got the job, I'm here.
Now let's talk about what youwant to accomplish in the first
year.
What is your vision in thefirst year?
(15:50):
What is your vision for me inthe first year?
Therefore, you can you can notbe misled by the interview and
you can hear fully from theperson that you'll be
responsible to, to hear fromthem what their expectations are
, and then that helps to createthe expect that helps to create,
(16:10):
to manage your expectations ofthis dream job, Because what
usually happens is that you haveto.
The dream unfolds while you'reworking it, you know really,
what we're looking at is thedream title.
And so we have this oh, I wantto work for this place, I want
this title.
That's not necessarily thedream job, because you don't
(16:32):
know the job until you work thejob, and in working the job you
begin to create for yourselfwhat that dream is inside of the
job.
So that would be my, those aremy thoughts as it relates to
dream jobs.
For me, working at and my careerhas been in higher education
(16:53):
and so working at Virginia Tech,it was really the title.
I wanted to be a vice presidentfor diversity.
I wanted to hit the highestlevel of my career in my
industry.
I want to do it in a collegeenvironment, and and so, as I
(17:14):
got the position, as I began totry to align with the president
that hired me, then I began toengage with aspects of the
culture, aspects of mycolleagues, aspects of the
college life, so that I can makeit my dream, I can make it my
reality.
And then, when things went sour, that dream turned into a
(17:36):
nightmare, and so so we have tolook at it from that perspective
.
And nothing lasts Right,nothing lasts and nothing lasts
right.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Nothing lasts.
Yeah, yeah, I like what yousaid.
You said as you get into thejob, you make it your dream
right.
You make it your dream job andI like that because you go into
the job knowing that you mayhave to make some sacrifices, it
may not be all that you want,but you're going, level setting
(18:06):
with yourself and then goinginto the role and meeting with
your leaders, meeting with you,can make this job, that dream
job, right.
So I like how you put thatright.
(18:32):
You make it what it is.
It could be a horror story orit can be a great story in the
making.
So Perch in the Storm and youknow this is the book that's
coming out and you know I'msuper excited to read this book
(18:53):
as it really talks aboutresiliency right and getting
through the storm.
You know, whenever you havelife situations, there are some
people who stay in the storm.
But again to what you said, youhave to make it what it is
Right, and so that kind of leadsme to think.
(19:14):
When I first started working atmy first employer in HR, I was
like man.
You know, my dream was just toget in HR.
No-transcript, they wanted meto do this role, but I'm like no
(19:54):
, I don't want to do that role,I want to do this role, and I
had to.
I didn't get fired, though, butin my mind, in my heart, like I
was committed to be there, butI knew where reality set in, and
I said you know what?
(20:15):
I got to find me another job,and it was a tough moment,
because you don't really planfor these things, right,
regardless if you quit or orwhether, if you get fired, most
of the times, people don'treally plan OK, you know, I'm
going to leave in a year and ahalf or a year or two, right.
(20:39):
For a lot of people, it's likehey, I'm going to work this job,
and one of the things that theolder generation had taught us
is you get a job and you keep ajob Right, and so it's a lot of
emotions attached to losing ajob or being basically being
forced out of a position, right,that you're working in and
(21:15):
you're being through the storm,and you've realized, you know
what, this was for my good,right, this was for my good, and
I would tell myself and I oftentell myself, and I often go
back to that story, right, and Itell myself you know what?
I'm so glad that this personcame into my life really to push
(21:37):
me and to make me uncomfortableso that I can create something
different, so I can exploresomething different.
So let's get into the sevenbehaviors of resilient leaders.
Man, you've got some reallygood points here, so let's dive
into it.
Hey, I'll let you take the leadon this.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Let's go through it and talk about the seven
behaviors of resilient leaders?
Absolutely, and I want to.
Before we get into that, I wantto go back to that.
This is for my good, and let metell you something that my
being fired and my not getting ajob for two years was for my
good.
I did not know it, I did notrealize it.
I would not be talking to youright now about this very
subject if that didn't happen.
(22:26):
I wouldn't have written myfirst book Sweet Potato, pumpkin
Pie, conversations with myWhite Friends About Race had
that not happened.
And I wouldn't be on my secondbook, perched in the Storm, if
that wouldn't happen.
I wouldn't have been able totake my entire family on a
European vacation once in alifetime vacation, had that not
happened.
I wouldn't have met greatpeople all over the country,
(22:50):
great people like you at theMemphis SHRM conference, if that
hadn't happened.
And so sometimes we have tolook at these storms, not
sometimes all the time.
We have to look at storms andlook at the opportunity that
they present for us.
Seven behaviors of a resilientleader.
(23:13):
One of the seven behaviors ismindset mastery.
And so when we think about if Iwould have stayed in a mindset
of a pity oh my goodness, I gotfired.
Oh my goodness that happened tome.
Oh, I can't get another job.
Oh my goodness, I can't pay mybills.
And let me tell you, I couldn'tpay my bills, but if I would
(23:42):
have just aid in that pity place, I wouldn't have been able to
get to a higher platform.
And so mindset mastery says howdo I take and take the storm
and turn it into opportunity?
How do I grow through thechallenge?
How do I make, as they say, alemonade out of lemons?
Right?
And so I believe, mindsetmastery, if we're going to
(24:04):
overcome any storm, anyadversity in our lives, we have
to have a positive mindset aboutit, right.
And so that's one of thebehaviors, the seven behaviors
of resilient leaders.
This is not, these are notcharacter traits, these are not
leadership traits, these arebehaviors that that that we
develop through things, thatthings that you can control
(24:28):
Absolutely, absolutely,absolutely so.
So one thing I would like forthe audience is to think about
when we think about mindsetmastery.
Is this concept right here?
It's not, I can't do it.
It's how can I do it.
When we think, when we begin tosay how can I?
That opens up our imagination.
(24:49):
And so mindset mastery is verypivotal and important as it
relates to being a resilientleader, because resiliency is
about bouncing back and if Idon't have a can do attitude, if
I don't have an attitude that Iam going to make it, I won't
bounce back.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Man, I love that.
I love that, you know.
The first one, the firstbehavior is, is mindset mastery,
because it's really all in yourmind, right, how you view
things and you know it'ssometimes I'm not going to say
it's not okay to to have a freakshow or to to you know, kind of
(25:29):
go crazy, because it's like, ohmy god, this thing happened to
me.
I think you know we're, we'reall human, go through the feel,
the feels, go through theemotions, but eventually you
have to sit down with yourselfand say you know what, how can I
, like you said, how can I takethis storm and make it something
(25:53):
that's going to help me to moveon right, how can I learn from
this so that I can grow andcontinue to pursue my dreams and
aspiration?
Man, so I love it.
Right, it starts with the mind,and you talked about
imagination.
Just imagine, right, you'resitting in a room by yourself or
(26:14):
you're sitting in your carheading to work and you're
imagining the opportunities thatare out there.
You know what, it's endless,because you're creating those
through your imagination, you'recreating it in your mind, and
so what happens is, when you areactually physically looking for
it, you will attract it.
(26:36):
I'm just going to share thatlittle piece.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I love it.
You manifest it in our mindsfirst.
It is achieved and manifestedin our minds and it manifests in
reality, absolutely.
You got to see it before yousee it, man.
You got to see it before yousee it.
I used to watch back in the 70it before you see it.
I used to watch back in the 70sand 80s.
I used to watch all the Kung Fushows, if you will, and I
(27:02):
remember this one master Kung Fumaster said you see it before
you do it, then you do it andyou see it in your mind before
you do it.
And so he went through theentire combat in his head.
He saw it then before he did it, then he actually did it.
(27:26):
And that's the whole thingabout mindset mastery.
Right, we got to see it beforewe do it and all of these kind
of, all of the seven behaviorsthey build off of each other,
because the next one, aftermindset mastery, is adaptability
.
Right, we got to know how topivot, we got to know how to
adapt.
I was in the Marines and, beingin the Marines, one of the
(27:48):
things that our motto is adapt,improvise and overcome.
So what that means, whateverthe circumstances are and they
probably are not in your favor.
You have to adapt, you have toimprovise and you have to
overcome.
The mission critical is for youto overcome so you can achieve
(28:09):
your mission right.
And so, when we think about abehavior of a resilient leader,
it is that, that notion ofadaptability, being able to turn
on a pivot, turn on a dime,being able to just to.
I had a twenty thousand dollarinvestment in developing for HR
actually developing my ownengagement employee engagement
(28:31):
tool, my own engagement employeeengagement tool.
Yeah, I invested twentythousand dollars in the tool, uh
, launched it and there were alltypes of of uh issues and bugs
inside of this tool.
One of my clients called me.
I'm at a conference, clientcalls me and it like Will, I'm
(28:53):
disappointed in this, this isnot working for us and this is a
six figure client.
I invested twenty thousanddollars in getting the tool made
.
I've got a six figure clientthat has engaged in the tool.
The tool is not working.
I had to pivot.
I had to take that tool downand go to an external vendor and
(29:18):
use their tool instead.
That's a twenty thousand dollarinvestment out of my heart on
earned money Right, and so Imean I'm like and I'm not, I'm
broke, I don't have, I don'thave any money, I don't have
(29:44):
them, I don't have any money,and so so.
But I had to.
I had to adapt, improvise andovercome because the tool that I
fixed, that I was working on,wasn't working.
So, instead of being bullheadedand staying with that tool and
saying, well, I invested allthis money in this tool, I'm
going to make it work, no, I hadto adapt.
And guess what?
When we talk about adaptability,the next behavior of resilient
leader is emotional intelligence.
See, if I did not, if I was notaware, if I was not aware of my
(30:08):
surroundings, if I didn't readthe room, if I was not mature
enough, if I didn't have theemotional intelligence, I would
have stayed with that toolbecause I would have been like I
invested so much money in thistool.
Now I'm going to make it work.
No, no.
Emotional intelligence says Ihave to be able to understand
what's going on around me andmake the appropriate changes and
(30:34):
make the appropriateadjustments as I engage within
the environment.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Emotional intelligence says that that when
I approach my colleagues and Iapproach team members, I'm aware
of my own biases, my ownbarriers and I'm also, I have
(31:09):
some cognition of who they areand therefore that allows me to
engage with them in a very yourcustomer, your client.
That then leads to one of yourother points that you have in
here is service oriented,because you weren't selfish,
right, it wasn't just about youand your product.
You had to think about what canI do to serve this person,
(31:33):
right?
So let's talk about serviceoriented.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Absolutely.
And and you hit it.
You hit it right there.
You know, my mother gave mewhen I was, when I was in my
teens, she gave me this example,she said she said, son, take
your fist and ball your fist up.
And I said, okay, mom, I'll dothis.
And then she said now imagine,inside of your fist you have $1
(32:02):
wrapped in that fist.
She said now, here's thereality, son.
She said you can only get, youwill not get any other money
inside of your hand because it'swrenched around that dollar.
Now she said, if you were toopen your hand up like this, she
said, what will happen is thatyou can give that dollar and
(32:23):
then dollars can come to you.
And what she was saying was isthat, being a service to other
people, we will get stuff to us,right, and so we cannot be
selfish and not be of service.
And so service oriented isreally about being how do I help
somebody else, how do I keepother people in mind and in my
(32:46):
heart?
And so when I have a heart ofservice, that means that, yes,
I'm not just thinking aboutmyself, I'm thinking about the
client too.
And I'm not just thinking aboutmyself, I'm thinking about the
client too, and I'm and I'm notjust thinking about trying to
keep that client, but I wantthat client to be successful and
my tool was set up to besuccessful, for her to be
(33:07):
successful.
It did not provide her thesuccess that she was looking for
.
Therefore, I had to go and findanother tool so that she could
be successful.
Service oriented is really aboutis not about me, it's about the
other.
Wow, yeah, absolutely.
(33:30):
And then once we once we lookat that service oriented, we
look at that emotionalintelligence.
Then another place where wehave to begin to look at is how
do we think about continuouslearning and education?
Right, all the storms that I'vebeen through, I've learned from
them, and we also learn fromour storms, and so I think that
(33:50):
and we hear a lot about peopleneed to be, you know, we need to
go to college and get thiscontinuous learning and
education and innovation.
That is true, but we also haveto do that within the context of
the storms that we've beenthrough as well, because here's
the reality the life is our bestteacher.
(34:11):
Life is our classroom.
The storm is our classroom.
It's not that, it's not theclassroom inside of college or
technical school or inside of abuilding.
The classroom are the stormsthat we go through, and so we
have to begin to think about howdo we learn?
What do we learn?
(34:32):
What is what's the lesson?
When I was going through allthose job interviews, I had to
stop and say God, what is thelesson?
What are you trying to?
What you trying to say here?
Yeah, what you trying to tell me, what you trying to show me,
what you trying to tell meAbsolutely, and so I think that
we have to look at it from thatvantage point.
As we look at our own stormsand our own lives, then it's
(34:57):
interesting because when wethink about what the lesson is,
then that can move us intostrategic career growth.
Now I don't want to stay herejust just for a moment.
When we think about strategic,strategic career growth, because
this is for anyone that islooking to advance their career
(35:19):
and we hear a lot.
We have mentors, we have peopletalking about oh, you need to
grow your career Absolutely.
But I really believe, when wethink about strategic career
growth, what that means to me is, for example, prince, this
podcast is part of yourstrategic career growth, because
what this does, this gives youa platform to stand out amongst
(35:42):
your peers, to be a thoughtleader, to have other people to
come on and to share thoughtleadership, and it gives you
that platform.
So, when people as a brand, asPrince Tate as the brand as a
transparent, a brand as PrinceTate as the brand as a
transparent HR podcast, you wantthat to be a brand that stands
out.
(36:02):
Strategic Career Growth sayshow do we create opportunities
for ourselves, to where we buildour brand separate from the
company brand.
We're going to have that brandwith the company, but we also
have to develop our own brand sothat, as we go out, as we grow
with inside the company or as weget growth opportunities
(36:25):
outside the company, we have astrong brand that people want
that value.
Here's the reality.
When you bring value, you don'thave to chase money.
Money comes to you.
When you bring value and that'ssomething I had to learn I used
to chase money.
Oh, I want this job becauseit's going to pay this amount.
(36:45):
No, I said you know what I havevalue.
And the moment that I began torecognize my own value and begin
to build up that value and letpeople know about that value,
then things started coming myway.
Now, am I wildly rich?
No, I'm not.
One day I will be, but nottoday.
(37:05):
But I can't tell you this Ihave gotten a lot of contracts,
a lot of engagements based onthe value that I brought.
Yeah, and so strategic careergrowth is something that we most
certainly need to continue tolook at.
And then we need to look atwork-life integration.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, let's talk about that right Work-life
integration, and I kind of likehow you put integration.
A lot of times we see work-lifebalance and you know I actually
have an episode on work-lifebalance but I love the
integration piece because ittalks more about really infusing
(37:52):
all that you do and I'm goingto be honest, sometimes I'm
challenged with reallyintegrating everything in my
life because it's like I puteverything into a box.
Everything has its own time,right.
So let's dive into thiswork-life integration piece.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Absolutely, and I had to come to learn work-life
integration, and it actuallycame from my engaging in
entrepreneurship Before being anentrepreneur.
For me, I put everythingcompartmentalized, everything,
like you.
Okay, I'm going to go to workfor these eight hours, I'm going
(38:35):
to come home, I'm going tospend time with the family At
the time, I'm going to work onmy PhD, I'm going to do this,
I'm going to do that.
And everything had its owncompartment.
So I was trying to make balance.
So I was trying to balancefamily time with work time, with
school time, with going to themovies, with spiritual time.
And for me, that balance becametrying to make that balance
(38:59):
became overwhelming.
Yeah, and and, and.
What was more manageable iswhen I realized that I cannot
separate myself from work.
I cannot separate myself fromlife.
I cannot separate myself frommy religion.
I can't.
So.
So what I have to do is I haveto make sure that I'm just
integrating them together andthat, 24 hours in a day,
(39:23):
whatever happens in that 24hours in a day, that's just
what's going to happen.
That is the integration ofwork-life, and so it's not.
Oh, I didn't get this done.
Nope, if I didn't get it done,I didn't get it done.
I'm going to work on ittomorrow because it's all
integrated into my life.
So now my wife and I and we'reboth entrepreneurs, and this may
(39:45):
just be a function of who weare as entrepreneurs but my wife
and I, on Friday nightsInteresting story, and I'm going
to share a little bit about myage a little bit on friday
nights we would, we would, um, Iremember I love to go to jazz
concerts or what have you.
So we have paid some, somedollars to go to this jazz
concert.
(40:06):
I think it started at seven,and so we're getting ready to go
out and I have this look on myface and she has this look on
her face, and we both look ateach other and be like I, I
don't feel like going anywhere,and we're like, oh, we didn't
spend this money on thesetickets.
We're like we are dressed up,ready to go and we change into
(40:26):
our pajamas or what have you andwe go get our laptop, fix a
security board and put onNetflix and we begin to work for
us.
That's work life integration.
We're still spending time witheach other, we're in the same
room, but we're workingentrepreneurs.
She's working on her project,I'm working on my project and we
(40:49):
got Netflix and so it puts thetwist on the on the, on the
Netflix and popcorn and on adate night.
So we got the security board, alittle wine, some wine and
cheese, and we're laughing witheach other watching old movies
that can turn into white noiseso we can kind of tune it out.
And we're talking aboutbusiness and we're working.
That's work-life integration.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah.
So how does that work?
Work-life integration?
Right, you're going through astorm, or I like to say a career
storm, and, just like you,right, you're trying to look for
a job.
You're unemployed for almosttwo years and you're trying to
(41:32):
make this thing work, right?
And, and it kind of leads meback, because a lot of people,
uh, would you know?
Would say, especially, you're aman, right, uh, and you know,
if a man not having a job, it'slike the most embarrassing thing
you can ever experience as aman, right, cause it's like I'm
supposed to be the provider, I'msupposed to be the one, right,
(41:55):
if, if not anyone, if notanything else, that's my
responsibility.
So how do you really talk aboutwork life integration, as
you're going through a storm inyour career?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you hit on something right there
that that's.
One of the things that reallytore me apart was not being able
to provide for my family at thelevel, and the expectation that
I had for myself to provide notsomebody else, but my own high
standards of providership took ahit.
(42:31):
And it took a hit again towhere I spiraled down into
depression.
I was depressed.
I was in a fetal position.
Oftentimes, often mornings, Iwake up just crying because I
couldn't get the job.
I was just depressed.
But you know what, even thoughI couldn't get the job, at the
same time I was working on myown business.
(42:52):
Own business.
At the same time.
I remember working with acolleague and this is during the
time it was two years I waslooking for a job, trying to do
my own business.
We hosted seminars fordiversity officers across the
country, and this was back in2018, 2019.
(43:15):
And I remember being at aseminar where we're that service
oriented, we're giving service,we're feeding into other people
, we're telling them they can dothe job and we're trying to
make sure that we're raw, raw.
We're being the cheerleaders intheir lives and in their
professions.
At the same time, my car hadgotten repo.
My wife had called me and saidyour, my car had gotten
(43:37):
repossessed.
My wife had called me and saidyour car had just gotten
repossessed.
Wow, my heart was hurt, I wasfractured, but I wasn't broken
inside.
I was hurt, but you know what?
I kept going.
So how do you have thatwork-life integration when
(43:58):
you're going through the storm?
You got to move through thestorm because on the other side
of the storm is sunshine.
The reality is that you cannotwalk around it, you can't go
over it, you have to go throughit, and so what I had to do is I
had to go through the storm.
There were lessons in the stormthat the storm made me stronger
(44:19):
, and so, as I'm dealing withprovidership, as I don't have
enough money to pay my bills, asI'm at this conference on
something that I developed, meand this colleague developed
together our imagination and mycar gets repoed, I'm in the
storm.
I'm walking through the stormand guess what, prince, I'm here
(44:41):
talking to you on the otherside of the storm, and that was
not the only storm that I had,but I'm stronger for it.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, and that's just one of those pivotal moments
right In your career where it'sled you to where you are today,
right?
So we talked about the sevenbehaviors of resilience leaders,
number one being mindsetmastery.
You know, it's all about yourmindset and how you view it in
(45:09):
your mind, being adaptable.
Number two and really how youpivot.
Adaptable Number two really howyou pivot, being service
oriented and really havingothers in mind.
And then we talk aboutemotional intelligence right,
how do you control your emotionsand really to be able to
(45:31):
respond in a way where you'renot overly emotional about the
storm that you're going through,right?
We talked about strategiccareer growth Right, really, how
you, how you plan to grow inyour career but outside of your
organization, right, you know,and really it's all about
(45:53):
continuous learning.
That's one of the ones as well.
Number six and the number sevenwork life integration.
Man, out of all of these, ifthere's one behavioral mindset
shift you want every listener towalk away with today, which one
?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
would it be?
And why?
Oh, oh, my goodness, I got tostart with mindset.
Mindset is that's.
That's the key.
If your mindset is not, if youdon't have the right mindset,
none of the others will work,because you won't, you won't,
you won't be able to adapt, youwon't get into the continuous
learning, you won't be able tothink about emotional
intelligence, you can't doanything if you don't have the
(46:32):
right mindset.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Wow, man, I love that and I agree Again.
Earlier in the episode I saidyou know, man, that number one.
That's it.
It's the foundation ofeverything.
Dr Lewis, thank you so much forjoining us today and sharing
such invaluable insights.
Man, tell us how can peoplefind you and learn more about?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
your work.
Oh, my goodness, if they go toDr William T Lewiscom, they will
be able to find me there.
If they, if they send me anemail, william at WT Lewiscom,
send me an email and let'sconnect.
I would love to talk to youabout the book, talk to you
about your own career growth,your own journey, share with you
(47:16):
how I have engaged in my careerjourney.
So just connect in with me.
Connect in with me on LinkedInand Facebook.
Absolutely, dr William Lewis.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
If you've enjoyed this episode today, be sure to
subscribe to the TransparentNature podcast and also follow
my good friend, dr Lewis.
Your career storms don't haveto define you.
They can refine you.
Dr Lewis's story proves thatlosing a so-called dream job can
actually open the door tosomething far greater.
(47:50):
Grab his book Perched in theStorm when it comes out, for
even more on the seven behaviorswe talked about today.
And remember you don't have towait for a title to start
leading.
You can lead right where youare.
Lead yourself right.
It starts there.
Share this episode with someonewho's facing their own career
(48:13):
storm and let's all keep growingthrough what we go through.
Again, it's your host, princeTate.
Thank you so much for listeningtoday and until next time, keep
navigating your career withclarity and with confidence.
You.
We all dream of that perfect role, our dream job.
But what happens when the jobyou've worked your butt off for
ends up with a termination?
My guest today, dr WilliamLewis, knows that pain firsthand
.
In his new book, perched in theStorm, he shares how losing his
dream job became the catalystfor becoming a successful
(00:23):
entrepreneur and mentor to manyleaders and people all across
the world.
In this episode, we'll unpackhis story, challenge the idea of
a dream job and give you sevenbehaviors you need to navigate
your career through tough storms.
Now let's get into it, hey, andwelcome back to the Transparent
(01:00):
Nature podcast, where we bringreal conversations to help you
navigate your career andworkplace challenges.
It's your host, prince Tate,and I want to personally thank
you for listening in andsupporting this podcast.
If you are a returning guest,or even if this is your first
time tuning in, we'd love foryou to hit that subscribe button
(01:20):
, share this episode with afriend who can benefit from this
topic today and leave us areview.
Your support continues to helpus to bring real, great insights
to help you succeed in yourcareer and within your workplace
.
Today we have Dr Lewis.
Welcome to the podcast.
(01:41):
How are you today?
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
How are you today, my goodness, you know what.
Your energy is so magnanimousthat I am good today.
I'm trying to get off of yourenergy.
I'm trying to feel that vibethat you brought in.
I am feeling great today.
Thank you for having me on thepodcast today.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Man, I love that word you said magnanimous.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, big and magnanim , it's just big.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I love that.
I'm going to put that in mydictionary vocabulary.
I'm just going to start usingthat this whole week.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
That is how you own a word.
My English teacher I'm backback and I think my 12th grade
English English teacher told uswhenever we read something and
there's a word that we don'tknow for us to define it, then
for us to use it on our friendsand our families, on our
families, and then we own thatword.
And so use it and own it.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Man, I love it, hey.
So look, we're super excited tohave you with us today, but
before we dive into today'stopic and getting into your book
and talking about the sevenbehaviors of resilient leaders,
tell us one of your topworkplace pet peeves that always
(03:00):
irks your nerves.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oh my goodness, I don't necessarily like workplace
gossip.
I want to come to work, I wantto get the work done.
You know, I believe in sharingstories and engaging with each
other, but I don't like togossip about other folks, and so
when my colleagues, or whencolleagues began to do that, I
kind of stepped away.
That's something that I justdon't want to get into.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You know I always tell people that end up in the
HR office.
Hey, workplace gossip, we knowit happens all the time.
But you have to be cognizant ofwhat you talk about and what
you share, because at the pointof it escalating to HR, now
everybody's in trouble.
(03:45):
Now it's a problem.
Yes, it is a problem, right andso you have to be careful, and
you know what?
That's another episode foranother day workplace gossip.
So hey, let's get into yourstory, man, and even talk about
this book that you've written,and really talk about the why.
(04:05):
Dr Lewis, you've writtenPerched in the Storm out of some
deep personal experiences.
Can you take us back to thatmoment where it all began, where
you got let go or what we callfired from what you thought was
one of your dream jobs?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm just so excited to bring,Perched in the Storm, Brutal
Lessons in Resiliency Everyleader can learn from
entrepreneurs to the market.
It will be out later on in thewintertime.
I'm excited about this project.
You know, getting fired is notsomething that's unique.
(04:49):
I believe that many of us havebeen fired before.
As a matter of fact, I remembermy first time that I got fired
was when I was 14.
I worked at Burger King.
I worked at Burger King and theyfound out that I was too young
to be employed.
I applied on my application andthey found out about a week
(05:12):
later and I was fired from myjob.
But the stakes weren't thathigh at 14 working at Burger
King.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Man, I'm going to tell you this that was my first
employer, is that right?
I worked at Burger King in highschool and no, I was not 14.
I was actually legal age, Ithink it was 16, when I first
got into there, into Burger King.
But, man, I tell you what I'vegot some long history with
Burger King, and what made itreally interesting was that I
(05:46):
didn't just work at Burger King.
I had another brother thatworked at the same location and
another one, so it was three ofus working at the same time, and
so you know, it's a lot ofgreat memories, a lot of great
memories, but anyways, so yeah,so you worked there.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So I worked there, but that's not the moral of the
story.
The moral of the story is thatI worked at my dream job, which,
interesting enough, which Ithought was my dream job I was
the vice president for diversityand inclusion at Virginia Tech
(06:27):
back in 2010 to 2014.
And I was loving it.
My entire career was in highereducation.
I loved Blacksburg, loved thecollege, loved the students,
loved the work that I was doing.
But we had a new president thatcame in and his direction for
(06:51):
diversity, equity and inclusionwas not my well, I was not part
of his direction, if you will,and so I was fired from my job,
and from a professionalstandpoint, from an adult
standpoint, that was the firsttime ever I've ever been fired
from my job.
And from a professionalstandpoint, from an adult
standpoint, that was the firsttime ever I've ever been fired
from a job.
I always say it to myself andthis was somewhat, one may say,
(07:15):
arrogant, but I always say itthat whenever I get into a job,
it's going to be gold, becauseI'm going to make it gold.
And so that was the attitude Ibrought to that particular job,
and I enjoyed it.
I was in the high six figuresloving life, living life, just
doing it right In my early 40s,just about to set the world on
(07:38):
fire, and I had this careerinterruption.
And you know, what theinteresting thing is is that it
wasn't the firing.
I was going to be okay.
I knew that I was going to beokay.
I had the credentials, I hadthe PhD, I had the experience, I
(07:58):
had the title.
So I had all the things thatwould make someone OK after a
firing.
My challenge was getting hiredafter the firing because the
firing there.
I didn't get fired forembezzlement.
I didn't get fired for sexualmisconduct.
(08:21):
I didn't get fired forincompetency sexual misconduct I
didn't get fired forincompetency.
I got fired for politicalreasons.
And so it's always so wheneveryou get fired for political
reasons, people always want tosay what happened?
You had to do something.
I didn't do anything.
I did my job, but there werepolitical reasons behind the
(08:43):
firing, and so every otheremployer that I that I
interviewed for, and, and Prince, let me tell you I went from
all over the United States.
I went as far as California toNew York, to Florida, to
Michigan and every place inbetween, looking for a job for
(09:05):
nearly two years.
I was on the job market for twoyears looking for a job for that
next level and couldn't get it.
That's where I really had tostep into resiliency.
As a matter of fact, that'swhere depression really seeped
in.
That's where the lowest lowest,where I was at my lowest point
(09:27):
in my life, was during those twoyears, searching for another
job and couldn't get it.
Now I began to to feel like animposter.
I asked myself well did, wereyou good enough to even get the
first job?
Were you good enough to evenget the first job?
And I had two higher levelpositions prior to this one, so
(09:48):
it wasn't like this was thefirst job that I had in senior
leadership.
I worked in two other positionsbefore getting that position.
But not being able to get intoanother position as quickly as I
thought I would did somethingto me.
It really impacted meemotionally, it impacted me
(10:09):
spiritually, it impacted mefinancially.
So this book Perched in theStorm it reminded me as I was
going through that and othercircumstances.
It reminded me of a bird thatis on this limb in the middle of
(10:34):
a storm, kind of a tsunami typeof storm, if you will.
And this bird is just perchedthere, steady, unmoved, not
unbothered, when you look at thebird, you see the feathers kind
of ruffled, if you will, butthe bird is there.
(10:55):
It's wet, the wind is trying toknock it off of the branch, but
the bird is there perched.
This book speaks about beingperched in the storm, and what I
had to learn through thatfiring and through not getting
hired for nearly two years isthat I was going through a storm
and I had to be perched.
(11:15):
I had to be steady and it justdidn't.
I had to learn it over timebecause let me tell you
something, as I was goingthrough it, my goodness, that
wind was knocking me down.
I was being, I was going fromplace to place, I was being
sprayed all over the placerelated to that wind and the
trauma of the storm, but comingout of it, it made me stronger
(11:39):
and I wanted to share thatlesson with others, because this
is what I realized no matterwho you are, no matter your age,
your race, your wealth, yourposition, your title, we all go
through storms.
We're either in a storm.
We're either coming out of astorm or we're going into a
(12:02):
storm.
A storm or we're going into astorm.
So perched in a storm is forevery leader.
And a leader is not about atitle.
We're not talking aboutsomebody that has the title of
vice president or divisionleader or division manager.
We're talking about leadingyourself, leading your family,
having influence over othersEverybody who's listening to
(12:24):
this podcast.
They have influence oversomeone else and others, and so
leader that definition of leaderthis book is for everyone
because, in my mind, everyone'sa leader.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, and you know, let's take it back a little bit.
You know you talked about yourdream job and what you thought
was your dream job and I thinkfor a lot of people, especially
young professionals orindividuals that segwaying into
like an actual career.
A lot of times they say, well,this is my dream job.
(12:58):
I want to work, you know, atthe White House, I want to work
for this Fortune 500 company.
You know, I want to be at thecorporate office, I want to do
this job, I want to do that.
And then you get into the roleand you quickly learn that you
know what you thought was adream like, now it becomes
(13:21):
something of reality that'stotally different than from what
you dreamt about.
Right, and so kind of talk alittle bit about you know this
misconception that there is thisthing such thing as a dream job
, because my notion is there'sno such thing as a dream job.
(13:41):
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that you know.
I think that I don't disagreewith you in terms of the
challenges of getting the joband aligning that job with the
realities.
I think people can't have asense of a dream job, but
sometimes a dream can turn intoa nightmare very quickly, and so
what you have to do is you haveto begin to just realize the
(14:05):
realities of what you're in andthat nothing's perfect.
So to your point.
First of all, I would invitepeople to think about alignment.
So there are three differententry points into the job the
job description, the interviewand the actual job.
And so what you have to do isyou have to align.
(14:26):
Every time you go through thatphase, each phase, you have to
make an alignment, adjustment.
So the job description is goingto be totally different than
the interview.
So what you experience in jobdescription and what you
experience in the interview isdifferent, and so you have to
begin to make adjustments andalign that description and the
interview, because once peoplesit down with you in the
(14:46):
interview, it's hardly ever ascut and dry in the interview as
it says on a job description,right, and so that's the first
thing we have to do Then, as weget into the interview and if we
have a job offer and if we'reon the ground, the realities on
the ground are different thanthe realities in the interview.
(15:08):
People are bringing their bestselves into the interview.
Once you get into that job, onthe job, it's a whole nother
experience and the expectationsit shifts a little bit.
And so I would say that as yougo through what you believe is
your dream job but this is forany job as you go through that
job process, that job searchprocess, always make those
(15:30):
tweaks and those alignments andbegin to make expectation
adjustments.
Once you get the job, have analignment, meeting with your
supervisor.
Ok, I got the job, I'm here.
Now let's talk about what youwant to accomplish in the first
year.
What is your vision in thefirst year?
(15:50):
What is your vision for me inthe first year?
Therefore, you can you can notbe misled by the interview and
you can hear fully from theperson that you'll be
responsible to, to hear fromthem what their expectations are
, and then that helps to createthe expect that helps to create,
(16:10):
to manage your expectations ofthis dream job, Because what
usually happens is that you haveto.
The dream unfolds while you'reworking it, you know really,
what we're looking at is thedream title.
And so we have this oh, I wantto work for this place, I want
this title.
That's not necessarily thedream job, because you don't
(16:32):
know the job until you work thejob, and in working the job you
begin to create for yourselfwhat that dream is inside of the
job.
So that would be my, those aremy thoughts as it relates to
dream jobs.
For me, working at and my careerhas been in higher education
(16:53):
and so working at Virginia Tech,it was really the title.
I wanted to be a vice presidentfor diversity.
I wanted to hit the highestlevel of my career in my
industry.
I want to do it in a collegeenvironment, and and so, as I
(17:14):
got the position, as I began totry to align with the president
that hired me, then I began toengage with aspects of the
culture, aspects of mycolleagues, aspects of the
college life, so that I can makeit my dream, I can make it my
reality.
And then, when things went sour, that dream turned into a
(17:36):
nightmare, and so so we have tolook at it from that perspective
.
And nothing lasts Right,nothing lasts and nothing lasts
right.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Nothing lasts.
Yeah, yeah, I like what yousaid.
You said as you get into thejob, you make it your dream
right.
You make it your dream job andI like that because you go into
the job knowing that you mayhave to make some sacrifices, it
may not be all that you want,but you're going, level setting
(18:06):
with yourself and then goinginto the role and meeting with
your leaders, meeting with you,can make this job, that dream
job, right.
So I like how you put thatright.
(18:32):
You make it what it is.
It could be a horror story orit can be a great story in the
making.
So Perch in the Storm and youknow this is the book that's
coming out and you know I'msuper excited to read this book
(18:53):
as it really talks aboutresiliency right and getting
through the storm.
You know, whenever you havelife situations, there are some
people who stay in the storm.
But again to what you said, youhave to make it what it is
Right, and so that kind of leadsme to think.
(19:14):
When I first started working atmy first employer in HR, I was
like man.
You know, my dream was just toget in HR.
No-transcript, they wanted meto do this role, but I'm like no
(19:54):
, I don't want to do that role,I want to do this role, and I
had to.
I didn't get fired, though, butin my mind, in my heart, like I
was committed to be there, butI knew where reality set in, and
I said you know what?
(20:15):
I got to find me another job,and it was a tough moment,
because you don't really planfor these things, right,
regardless if you quit or orwhether, if you get fired, most
of the times, people don'treally plan OK, you know, I'm
going to leave in a year and ahalf or a year or two, right.
(20:39):
For a lot of people, it's likehey, I'm going to work this job,
and one of the things that theolder generation had taught us
is you get a job and you keep ajob Right, and so it's a lot of
emotions attached to losing ajob or being basically being
forced out of a position, right,that you're working in and
(21:15):
you're being through the storm,and you've realized, you know
what, this was for my good,right, this was for my good, and
I would tell myself and I oftentell myself, and I often go
back to that story, right, and Itell myself you know what?
I'm so glad that this personcame into my life really to push
(21:37):
me and to make me uncomfortableso that I can create something
different, so I can exploresomething different.
So let's get into the sevenbehaviors of resilient leaders.
Man, you've got some reallygood points here, so let's dive
into it.
Hey, I'll let you take the leadon this.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Let's go through it and talk about the seven
behaviors of resilient leaders?
Absolutely, and I want to.
Before we get into that, I wantto go back to that.
This is for my good, and let metell you something that my
being fired and my not getting ajob for two years was for my
good.
I did not know it, I did notrealize it.
I would not be talking to youright now about this very
subject if that didn't happen.
(22:26):
I wouldn't have written myfirst book Sweet Potato, pumpkin
Pie, conversations with myWhite Friends About Race had
that not happened.
And I wouldn't be on my secondbook, perched in the Storm, if
that wouldn't happen.
I wouldn't have been able totake my entire family on a
European vacation once in alifetime vacation, had that not
happened.
I wouldn't have met greatpeople all over the country,
(22:50):
great people like you at theMemphis SHRM conference, if that
hadn't happened.
And so sometimes we have tolook at these storms, not
sometimes all the time.
We have to look at storms andlook at the opportunity that
they present for us.
Seven behaviors of a resilientleader.
(23:13):
One of the seven behaviors ismindset mastery.
And so when we think about if Iwould have stayed in a mindset
of a pity oh my goodness, I gotfired.
Oh my goodness that happened tome.
Oh, I can't get another job.
Oh my goodness, I can't pay mybills.
And let me tell you, I couldn'tpay my bills, but if I would
(23:42):
have just aid in that pity place, I wouldn't have been able to
get to a higher platform.
And so mindset mastery says howdo I take and take the storm
and turn it into opportunity?
How do I grow through thechallenge?
How do I make, as they say, alemonade out of lemons?
Right?
And so I believe, mindsetmastery, if we're going to
(24:04):
overcome any storm, anyadversity in our lives, we have
to have a positive mindset aboutit, right.
And so that's one of thebehaviors, the seven behaviors
of resilient leaders.
This is not, these are notcharacter traits, these are not
leadership traits, these arebehaviors that that that we
develop through things, thatthings that you can control
(24:28):
Absolutely, absolutely,absolutely so.
So one thing I would like forthe audience is to think about
when we think about mindsetmastery.
Is this concept right here?
It's not, I can't do it.
It's how can I do it.
When we think, when we begin tosay how can I?
That opens up our imagination.
(24:49):
And so mindset mastery is verypivotal and important as it
relates to being a resilientleader, because resiliency is
about bouncing back and if Idon't have a can do attitude, if
I don't have an attitude that Iam going to make it, I won't
bounce back.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Man, I love that.
I love that, you know.
The first one, the firstbehavior is, is mindset mastery,
because it's really all in yourmind, right, how you view
things and you know it'ssometimes I'm not going to say
it's not okay to to have a freakshow or to to you know, kind of
(25:29):
go crazy, because it's like, ohmy god, this thing happened to
me.
I think you know we're, we'reall human, go through the feel,
the feels, go through theemotions, but eventually you
have to sit down with yourselfand say you know what, how can I
, like you said, how can I takethis storm and make it something
(25:53):
that's going to help me to moveon right, how can I learn from
this so that I can grow andcontinue to pursue my dreams and
aspiration?
Man, so I love it.
Right, it starts with the mind,and you talked about
imagination.
Just imagine, right, you'resitting in a room by yourself or
(26:14):
you're sitting in your carheading to work and you're
imagining the opportunities thatare out there.
You know what, it's endless,because you're creating those
through your imagination, you'recreating it in your mind, and
so what happens is, when you areactually physically looking for
it, you will attract it.
(26:36):
I'm just going to share thatlittle piece.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I love it.
You manifest it in our mindsfirst.
It is achieved and manifestedin our minds and it manifests in
reality, absolutely.
You got to see it before yousee it, man.
You got to see it before yousee it.
I used to watch back in the 70it before you see it.
I used to watch back in the 70sand 80s.
I used to watch all the Kung Fushows, if you will, and I
(27:02):
remember this one master Kung Fumaster said you see it before
you do it, then you do it andyou see it in your mind before
you do it.
And so he went through theentire combat in his head.
He saw it then before he did it, then he actually did it.
(27:26):
And that's the whole thingabout mindset mastery.
Right, we got to see it beforewe do it and all of these kind
of, all of the seven behaviorsthey build off of each other,
because the next one, aftermindset mastery, is adaptability
.
Right, we got to know how topivot, we got to know how to
adapt.
I was in the Marines and, beingin the Marines, one of the
(27:48):
things that our motto is adapt,improvise and overcome.
So what that means, whateverthe circumstances are and they
probably are not in your favor.
You have to adapt, you have toimprovise and you have to
overcome.
The mission critical is for youto overcome so you can achieve
(28:09):
your mission right.
And so, when we think about abehavior of a resilient leader,
it is that, that notion ofadaptability, being able to turn
on a pivot, turn on a dime,being able to just to.
I had a twenty thousand dollarinvestment in developing for HR
actually developing my ownengagement employee engagement
(28:31):
tool, my own engagement employeeengagement tool.
Yeah, I invested twentythousand dollars in the tool, uh
, launched it and there were alltypes of of uh issues and bugs
inside of this tool.
One of my clients called me.
I'm at a conference, clientcalls me and it like Will, I'm
(28:53):
disappointed in this, this isnot working for us and this is a
six figure client.
I invested twenty thousanddollars in getting the tool made
.
I've got a six figure clientthat has engaged in the tool.
The tool is not working.
I had to pivot.
I had to take that tool downand go to an external vendor and
(29:18):
use their tool instead.
That's a twenty thousand dollarinvestment out of my heart on
earned money Right, and so Imean I'm like and I'm not, I'm
broke, I don't have, I don'thave any money, I don't have
(29:44):
them, I don't have any money,and so so.
But I had to.
I had to adapt, improvise andovercome because the tool that I
fixed, that I was working on,wasn't working.
So, instead of being bullheadedand staying with that tool and
saying, well, I invested allthis money in this tool, I'm
going to make it work, no, I hadto adapt.
And guess what?
When we talk about adaptability,the next behavior of resilient
leader is emotional intelligence.
See, if I did not, if I was notaware, if I was not aware of my
(30:08):
surroundings, if I didn't readthe room, if I was not mature
enough, if I didn't have theemotional intelligence, I would
have stayed with that toolbecause I would have been like I
invested so much money in thistool.
Now I'm going to make it work.
No, no.
Emotional intelligence says Ihave to be able to understand
what's going on around me andmake the appropriate changes and
(30:34):
make the appropriateadjustments as I engage within
the environment.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Emotional intelligence says that that when
I approach my colleagues and Iapproach team members, I'm aware
of my own biases, my ownbarriers and I'm also, I have
(31:09):
some cognition of who they areand therefore that allows me to
engage with them in a very yourcustomer, your client.
That then leads to one of yourother points that you have in
here is service oriented,because you weren't selfish,
right, it wasn't just about youand your product.
You had to think about what canI do to serve this person,
(31:33):
right?
So let's talk about serviceoriented.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Absolutely.
And and you hit it.
You hit it right there.
You know, my mother gave mewhen I was, when I was in my
teens, she gave me this example,she said she said, son, take
your fist and ball your fist up.
And I said, okay, mom, I'll dothis.
And then she said now imagine,inside of your fist you have $1
(32:02):
wrapped in that fist.
She said now, here's thereality, son.
She said you can only get, youwill not get any other money
inside of your hand because it'swrenched around that dollar.
Now she said, if you were toopen your hand up like this, she
said, what will happen is thatyou can give that dollar and
(32:23):
then dollars can come to you.
And what she was saying was isthat, being a service to other
people, we will get stuff to us,right, and so we cannot be
selfish and not be of service.
And so service oriented isreally about being how do I help
somebody else, how do I keepother people in mind and in my
(32:46):
heart?
And so when I have a heart ofservice, that means that, yes,
I'm not just thinking aboutmyself, I'm thinking about the
client too.
And I'm not just thinking aboutmyself, I'm thinking about the
client too, and I'm and I'm notjust thinking about trying to
keep that client, but I wantthat client to be successful and
my tool was set up to besuccessful, for her to be
(33:07):
successful.
It did not provide her thesuccess that she was looking for
.
Therefore, I had to go and findanother tool so that she could
be successful.
Service oriented is really aboutis not about me, it's about the
other.
Wow, yeah, absolutely.
(33:30):
And then once we once we lookat that service oriented, we
look at that emotionalintelligence.
Then another place where wehave to begin to look at is how
do we think about continuouslearning and education?
Right, all the storms that I'vebeen through, I've learned from
them, and we also learn fromour storms, and so I think that
(33:50):
and we hear a lot about peopleneed to be, you know, we need to
go to college and get thiscontinuous learning and
education and innovation.
That is true, but we also haveto do that within the context of
the storms that we've beenthrough as well, because here's
the reality the life is our bestteacher.
(34:11):
Life is our classroom.
The storm is our classroom.
It's not that, it's not theclassroom inside of college or
technical school or inside of abuilding.
The classroom are the stormsthat we go through, and so we
have to begin to think about howdo we learn?
What do we learn?
(34:32):
What is what's the lesson?
When I was going through allthose job interviews, I had to
stop and say God, what is thelesson?
What are you trying to?
What you trying to say here?
Yeah, what you trying to tell me, what you trying to show me,
what you trying to tell meAbsolutely, and so I think that
we have to look at it from thatvantage point.
As we look at our own stormsand our own lives, then it's
(34:57):
interesting because when wethink about what the lesson is,
then that can move us intostrategic career growth.
Now I don't want to stay herejust just for a moment.
When we think about strategic,strategic career growth, because
this is for anyone that islooking to advance their career
(35:19):
and we hear a lot.
We have mentors, we have peopletalking about oh, you need to
grow your career Absolutely.
But I really believe, when wethink about strategic career
growth, what that means to me is, for example, prince, this
podcast is part of yourstrategic career growth, because
what this does, this gives youa platform to stand out amongst
(35:42):
your peers, to be a thoughtleader, to have other people to
come on and to share thoughtleadership, and it gives you
that platform.
So, when people as a brand, asPrince Tate as the brand as a
transparent, a brand as PrinceTate as the brand as a
transparent HR podcast, you wantthat to be a brand that stands
out.
(36:02):
Strategic Career Growth sayshow do we create opportunities
for ourselves, to where we buildour brand separate from the
company brand.
We're going to have that brandwith the company, but we also
have to develop our own brand sothat, as we go out, as we grow
with inside the company or as weget growth opportunities
(36:25):
outside the company, we have astrong brand that people want
that value.
Here's the reality.
When you bring value, you don'thave to chase money.
Money comes to you.
When you bring value and that'ssomething I had to learn I used
to chase money.
Oh, I want this job becauseit's going to pay this amount.
(36:45):
No, I said you know what I havevalue.
And the moment that I began torecognize my own value and begin
to build up that value and letpeople know about that value,
then things started coming myway.
Now, am I wildly rich?
No, I'm not.
One day I will be, but nottoday.
(37:05):
But I can't tell you this Ihave gotten a lot of contracts,
a lot of engagements based onthe value that I brought.
Yeah, and so strategic careergrowth is something that we most
certainly need to continue tolook at.
And then we need to look atwork-life integration.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, let's talk about that right Work-life
integration, and I kind of likehow you put integration.
A lot of times we see work-lifebalance and you know I actually
have an episode on work-lifebalance but I love the
integration piece because ittalks more about really infusing
(37:52):
all that you do and I'm goingto be honest, sometimes I'm
challenged with reallyintegrating everything in my
life because it's like I puteverything into a box.
Everything has its own time,right.
So let's dive into thiswork-life integration piece.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Absolutely, and I had to come to learn work-life
integration, and it actuallycame from my engaging in
entrepreneurship Before being anentrepreneur.
For me, I put everythingcompartmentalized, everything,
like you.
Okay, I'm going to go to workfor these eight hours, I'm going
(38:35):
to come home, I'm going tospend time with the family At
the time, I'm going to work onmy PhD, I'm going to do this,
I'm going to do that.
And everything had its owncompartment.
So I was trying to make balance.
So I was trying to balancefamily time with work time, with
school time, with going to themovies, with spiritual time.
And for me, that balance becametrying to make that balance
(38:59):
became overwhelming.
Yeah, and and, and.
What was more manageable iswhen I realized that I cannot
separate myself from work.
I cannot separate myself fromlife.
I cannot separate myself frommy religion.
I can't.
So.
So what I have to do is I haveto make sure that I'm just
integrating them together andthat, 24 hours in a day,
(39:23):
whatever happens in that 24hours in a day, that's just
what's going to happen.
That is the integration ofwork-life, and so it's not.
Oh, I didn't get this done.
Nope, if I didn't get it done,I didn't get it done.
I'm going to work on ittomorrow because it's all
integrated into my life.
So now my wife and I and we'reboth entrepreneurs, and this may
(39:45):
just be a function of who weare as entrepreneurs but my wife
and I, on Friday nightsInteresting story, and I'm going
to share a little bit about myage a little bit on friday
nights we would, we would, um, Iremember I love to go to jazz
concerts or what have you.
So we have paid some, somedollars to go to this jazz
concert.
(40:06):
I think it started at seven,and so we're getting ready to go
out and I have this look on myface and she has this look on
her face, and we both look ateach other and be like I, I
don't feel like going anywhere,and we're like, oh, we didn't
spend this money on thesetickets.
We're like we are dressed up,ready to go and we change into
(40:26):
our pajamas or what have you andwe go get our laptop, fix a
security board and put onNetflix and we begin to work for
us.
That's work life integration.
We're still spending time witheach other, we're in the same
room, but we're workingentrepreneurs.
She's working on her project,I'm working on my project and we
(40:49):
got Netflix and so it puts thetwist on the on the, on the
Netflix and popcorn and on adate night.
So we got the security board, alittle wine, some wine and
cheese, and we're laughing witheach other watching old movies
that can turn into white noiseso we can kind of tune it out.
And we're talking aboutbusiness and we're working.
That's work-life integration.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah.
So how does that work?
Work-life integration?
Right, you're going through astorm, or I like to say a career
storm, and, just like you,right, you're trying to look for
a job.
You're unemployed for almosttwo years and you're trying to
(41:32):
make this thing work, right?
And, and it kind of leads meback, because a lot of people,
uh, would you know?
Would say, especially, you're aman, right, uh, and you know,
if a man not having a job, it'slike the most embarrassing thing
you can ever experience as aman, right, cause it's like I'm
supposed to be the provider, I'msupposed to be the one, right,
(41:55):
if, if not anyone, if notanything else, that's my
responsibility.
So how do you really talk aboutwork life integration, as
you're going through a storm inyour career?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you hit on something right there
that that's.
One of the things that reallytore me apart was not being able
to provide for my family at thelevel, and the expectation that
I had for myself to provide notsomebody else, but my own high
standards of providership took ahit.
(42:31):
And it took a hit again towhere I spiraled down into
depression.
I was depressed.
I was in a fetal position.
Oftentimes, often mornings, Iwake up just crying because I
couldn't get the job.
I was just depressed.
But you know what, even thoughI couldn't get the job, at the
same time I was working on myown business.
(42:52):
Own business.
At the same time.
I remember working with acolleague and this is during the
time it was two years I waslooking for a job, trying to do
my own business.
We hosted seminars fordiversity officers across the
country, and this was back in2018, 2019.
(43:15):
And I remember being at aseminar where we're that service
oriented, we're giving service,we're feeding into other people
, we're telling them they can dothe job and we're trying to
make sure that we're raw, raw.
We're being the cheerleaders intheir lives and in their
professions.
At the same time, my car hadgotten repo.
My wife had called me and saidyour, my car had gotten
(43:37):
repossessed.
My wife had called me and saidyour car had just gotten
repossessed.
Wow, my heart was hurt, I wasfractured, but I wasn't broken
inside.
I was hurt, but you know what?
I kept going.
So how do you have thatwork-life integration when
(43:58):
you're going through the storm?
You got to move through thestorm because on the other side
of the storm is sunshine.
The reality is that you cannotwalk around it, you can't go
over it, you have to go throughit, and so what I had to do is I
had to go through the storm.
There were lessons in the stormthat the storm made me stronger
(44:19):
, and so, as I'm dealing withprovidership, as I don't have
enough money to pay my bills, asI'm at this conference on
something that I developed, meand this colleague developed
together our imagination and mycar gets repoed, I'm in the
storm.
I'm walking through the stormand guess what, prince, I'm here
(44:41):
talking to you on the otherside of the storm, and that was
not the only storm that I had,but I'm stronger for it.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, and that's just one of those pivotal moments
right In your career where it'sled you to where you are today,
right?
So we talked about the sevenbehaviors of resilience leaders,
number one being mindsetmastery.
You know, it's all about yourmindset and how you view it in
(45:09):
your mind, being adaptable.
Number two and really how youpivot.
Adaptable Number two really howyou pivot, being service
oriented and really havingothers in mind.
And then we talk aboutemotional intelligence right,
how do you control your emotionsand really to be able to
(45:31):
respond in a way where you'renot overly emotional about the
storm that you're going through,right?
We talked about strategiccareer growth Right, really, how
you, how you plan to grow inyour career but outside of your
organization, right, you know,and really it's all about
(45:53):
continuous learning.
That's one of the ones as well.
Number six and the number sevenwork life integration.
Man, out of all of these, ifthere's one behavioral mindset
shift you want every listener towalk away with today, which one
?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
would it be?
And why?
Oh, oh, my goodness, I got tostart with mindset.
Mindset is that's.
That's the key.
If your mindset is not, if youdon't have the right mindset,
none of the others will work,because you won't, you won't,
you won't be able to adapt, youwon't get into the continuous
learning, you won't be able tothink about emotional
intelligence, you can't doanything if you don't have the
(46:32):
right mindset.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Wow, man, I love that and I agree Again.
Earlier in the episode I saidyou know, man, that number one.
That's it.
It's the foundation ofeverything.
Dr Lewis, thank you so much forjoining us today and sharing
such invaluable insights.
Man, tell us how can peoplefind you and learn more about?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
your work.
Oh, my goodness, if they go toDr William T Lewiscom, they will
be able to find me there.
If they, if they send me anemail, william at WT Lewiscom,
send me an email and let'sconnect.
I would love to talk to youabout the book, talk to you
about your own career growth,your own journey, share with you
(47:16):
how I have engaged in my careerjourney.
So just connect in with me.
Connect in with me on LinkedInand Facebook.
Absolutely, dr William Lewis.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
If you've enjoyed this episode today, be sure to
subscribe to the TransparentNature podcast and also follow
my good friend, dr Lewis.
Your career storms don't haveto define you.
They can refine you.
Dr Lewis's story proves thatlosing a so-called dream job can
actually open the door tosomething far greater.
(47:50):
Grab his book Perched in theStorm when it comes out, for
even more on the seven behaviorswe talked about today.
And remember you don't have towait for a title to start
leading.
You can lead right where youare.
Lead yourself right.
It starts there.
Share this episode with someonewho's facing their own career
(48:13):
storm and let's all keep growingthrough what we go through.
Again, it's your host, princeTate.
Thank you so much for listeningtoday and until next time, keep
navigating your career withclarity and with confidence.
You.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.