July 18, 2024 • 22 mins
In this episode, we welcome David Hillman, Vice President of Integrated Technologies, and Jonathan Hutchison, Sr. Powertrain Launch Manager at Navistar, to discuss the innovative S13 Integrated Powertrain. They share insights on its global impact, and how it's exceeding fuel economy expectations and enhancing driver satisfaction. We explore the recent launch of the HX620 with the S13 engine, highlighting its lightweight design, increased payload, and performance. We also cover the T14 transmission’s specialized vocational attributes, and the factory-installed PTOs manufactured in Huntsville, AL. Looking ahead, we discuss the 2024-2027 engine technology carryover, emphasizing tools, training, parts, and driver experience. Tune in now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the
Transportation Exchange podcastpresented by Rush Truck Scans of
Canada.
I'm your host, jason Cuddy, andon today's episode we welcome
David Hillman, who is the VP ofIntegrated Technologies, and
Jonathan Hutchinson, who's theSenior Powertrain Launch Manager
for Navistar.
Gentlemen, welcome to thepodcast.
Hello, thanks for having us.
(00:35):
So we wanted to invite you guyson, as we're kind of right into
the heart of the S13 kind oflaunch, but not outside of
launch but like actually in thefield, and kind of got some real
testimonial and some feedbackfrom customers.
So when we did this about ayear and a half ago, it was the
to be seen transmissionpowertrain engine after
(00:56):
treatment, and now it's here.
So I thought we'd reintroduceit and kind of go through high
level components and kind ofwhat the feedback's been why
don't we start with what theoverview of the powertrain and
components are?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So the quick overview for those of you playing along
at home, when we talk about theS13 integrated from
International Truck, it's gotthree primary components that we
developed as part of a cleansheet design, co-developed at
the same time to all worktogether and in harmony.
Breaking them down across thetree, there's the S13 engine,
(01:33):
which is a proprietary 13 literengine that generates power that
goes to the T14 transmissionwhich, as you'd expect, would
have uh 14 forward gears.
So that's the 14 and the t14and, capping it all off, the uh
probably the secret sauce of thewhole rep is recipe is our dual
(01:53):
stage after treatment system.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And so those are the, the three major components that
we talk about when we when wetalk about the s13 integrated
gotcha, and I think one of thethings that's been, I guess,
harped on and really had a bigfocus on is that this isn't just
specifically a North Americanbuild.
This is a global platform.
Maybe talk to us about theglobal numbers free introduction
to North American market.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah.
So some of your listeners maybe surprised or interested to
learn that international trucks,which has a history going all
the way back to Cyrus McCormickand the Mechanical Reaper in the
1830s right, we've got a longheritage that we're very proud
of, but as of July of 2021, weare a wholly owned member of the
(02:40):
Volkswagen Group.
So Volkswagen, you know,already owned a company called
Scania out of Sweden, man out ofGermany, and they've had their
own commercial vehicles divisiondown in Brazil for many, many
years.
So those three brands that theyalready owned didn't have a
footprint in North America, andso we became a very interesting
(03:04):
and complimentary piece to thepuzzle.
So Volkswagen acquiredInternational Truck and IC Bus,
our school bus division, and putus together with the rest of
the commercial group under theumbrella brand of Trayton so
that's a new name that some ofyour listeners may not be
familiar with.
So, as part of the Trayton group, we collectively all four of
(03:29):
the major brands within Traytoninvested in a global powertrain,
and so, even though we beganproduction in North America, we
localized the S13 out of ourHuntsville assembly plant in
Huntsville, alabama, and thatproduction began late last year
(03:49):
for North American customers.
Scania was actually, I believe,the first to market about a
year prior, in late 2022.
And so, I'm sorry, in late 21,.
It was in late 21 that theybegan.
We started on board late 23.
Brazil is coming on board, Ithink, around now,000 of these
(04:10):
powertrains out on the roadwayswith over 3 billion miles of
customer travel.
So not just we did a lot tovalidate and and and to test and
(04:35):
to confirm the designs as agroup, but we've got over 3
billion road miles in customerhands globally road miles in
customer hands globally.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So, jonathan, you probably have heard some of the
feedback.
Why don't you start?
And I can add a few pieces thatI know.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah.
So the early returns.
So we got to keep in mind thatduty cycles, say with Scania,
and operations are quitedifferent than here in the
States.
So it's hard to say, hey, yes,we have 3 billion miles, but
then if you divide it by thatmany units, it could only be,
you know, 30,000 miles orkilometers per unit that are out
(05:25):
there running around.
So but early returns on ourduty cycles here in the in the
States have been very, very high, praised A lot of man.
I can't believe how smooth thisis shifting, I can't believe
just how comfortable the seatsare or just the setup of the
interior of the truck.
(05:47):
So a lot of good feedback onpower.
They feel that it has enoughpower.
It's lightweight so we can haulmore payload.
And getting into now ourvocational, which what we call
is our second launch into ourHX620, our setback axle, we're
(06:07):
excited to bring those initialpositive returns from on highway
over to the work truck side ofthe business because we're going
to have a very, very big impacton.
You know, one of our three S'sIf the listeners remember from I
think the first time is one ofour S's is stellar performance.
We put that first when we talkvocational trucks.
(06:28):
But we're also going to getthat same fuel economy benefit
on the vocational side as wellbecause, like my friend David
says, everyone buys diesel.
So not only on highway but alsovocational.
So I'm seeing great, greatfeedback on performance and fuel
economy.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
So kind of maybe even pickingup on Jonathan's point right.
Strategically, when we embarkedon this new design for the
group, we wanted to hit threekey areas for customer audiences
to benefit the drivers behindthe wheel.
(07:11):
We want to benefit thetechnicians in the workshops
wrenching on units and finallydeliver for the owners from a
total cost of operationstandpoint.
And what's great is a lot ofthe feedback and Jonathan
touched on some of it, but thefeedback's really aligning up
around all of those rightTechnicians.
Just you tilt the hood and theygo hey, I can actually see the
(07:32):
engine underneath there.
It's not buried underneath allsorts of claptrap and that's and
that's again intentionally,because we were able to design
out a few problem areas.
Notably, we removed the EGRcooler.
This is designed not to operatewith cooled EGR.
We designed out the variablegeometry turbo which, again, the
whole industry has been usingfor a long, long time.
(07:54):
But most technicians would tellyou it's not as robust perhaps
as a simple waste-gated fixedgeometry turbo, which is what
the S13 employs.
So we went back to some thingsthat were maybe a bit more
familiar.
So the technicians love thataspect.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, and then to add on that, that third item that
we removed was the dieseloxidation catalyst which, as
some people understand and know,is a seventh injector.
So right there, when we talksuperior operating economy and
gains in fuel efficiency,removing that DOC really enables
us for our fuel economybenefits, yeah yeah, excellent.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, so lots of significant technical changes.
You know, and I said, and thedriver feedback's been great,
owner feedback's been great.
But I think the nice part fromNavistar point of view and
support level is, you knowyou're going from the
theoretical to the practicalright.
You had a concept in mind overthe last handful of years.
You're rolling out, you know,country by country, brand by
brand, but the support level onthat, I mean you, you guys, have
(08:55):
to support the dealership, thecustomers and the driver.
You have, you know, boot camps,training, maybe walk us through
kind of the backend supportthat you guys, that Navistar
does to to make sure this is asuccess.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah, so I'll, I'll.
I'll start start with that andthen David can get in.
I'll be the theoretical andDavid can be the practical.
So last year, about Apriltimeframe in 2023, we rolled out
an extensive bootcamp trainingwith over 700 of our dealer body
folks, as well as about 200 to300 Navistar representatives, to
(09:32):
really a week long training ofunderstanding the product, the
three areas the S13 engine, t14transmission, and then our dual
stage after treatment.
We brought them, brought themhere to Lyle, a suburb of
Chicago for those that you knowgo Cubs but so brought them here
(09:52):
for a week training.
We took them to our navistarproving grounds, which is our,
our private track in newcarlisle, indiana, um, and we we
had them drive it, experienceit, learn about it, understand
it, so then they could turn thatinto the practical um when they
talk with, with our listenersand our and our customers, and
(10:12):
our customers and our otherdealer channels.
So I'll let David then fill inthe rest.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think where we're at right now is a
really fascinating point in theprocess of launching something
as monumental as this to theindustry.
Right, we can PowerPoint thesnot out of things with the best
of them, right, but but Ialways tell customers, look, you
(10:39):
know, I mean part of part ofthe part of it is our messaging
and how we convey and talk toboth.
You know, training, trainingthe sales people internally and
training the sales channel forthe dealers.
But but reaching out tocustomers it really comes down
to what I always preach isgetting your drivers behind the
(11:01):
wheel of your vehicles.
Hauling your loads on yourroutes is really what it's all
about.
So we've done a lot to try andget demo units in place of
customers' hands right.
So international dealers aroundthe US and Canada are really
being very proactive aboutgetting units in inventory to be
(11:24):
able to get customer experience.
The proverbial butts in seatsyou know that goes a lot further
in my mind than anything Icould show to a customer on a
PowerPoint when they'reexperiencing it.
The quiet noise level of thepowertrain, the way the
transmission shifts, the powerit delivers, those are things
(11:46):
that we're finding customers,especially the drivers, really
are very positively vocal aboutin terms of hey, you told me
this was going to be good and itexceeded my expectations and
that's a fun spot to be in.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, and to add on to that, right now it's pretty
exciting we have two 53-footrolling billboards trailers
which are our S13 integratedtrailer tour.
So that's really the next phasewe're in now and we've already
reached over about a thousandcustomers that have visited our
training trailers, which havecutaways of an S13 engine, t14
(12:25):
transmission and the dual stageafter treatment to educate not
only our dealers but ourcustomers as well.
So those are rolling around.
I believe they're actuallyheading up to Canada here pretty
soon, so we're excited.
So please come out and visitthose.
But that's my plug for the S13trailer tour.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, it should be kind of cool.
I know we're looking forward toseeing.
I've seen pictures onlinethrough the social media
channels and kind of.
You know we've seen a similartype trailer come through during
the EMV, kind of launch andcustomer interaction.
So obviously similar conceptbut obviously different
technology.
So it'll be very interesting,very cool to see you know
cutaways and get a deep diveinto the technology you know,
kind of be able to look at andsee what's changed and I think,
(13:07):
to your point, you know when thecustomers see it it's going to
be very impressive to look at.
So, jonathan, you touched on theHX20 that was launched in April
.
So that's kind of you know,when this first came out,
obviously, or first announced, Iguess about a year and a half
ago, class 8, you know,traditionally dominates the
conversation for a lot oftechnology and everything we see
(13:27):
.
But you know a good point youmade is that this does also
extremely well in a vocationalsetting.
Maybe kind of walk us through.
You talked a little bit aboutthe lightweight and increased
payload part, but maybe morespecifically the transmission,
because that might be where alot of people kind of have some
maybe questions or concernsabout how does this transmission
, perform within the vocationalworld that you're seeing so far.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, the transmission's exciting.
The transmission is 14 gearsbut it has a wider overall ratio
than an 18-speed transmission,so we're able to do much more
productivity with less.
What's neat also about thegearbox is that it has up to six
reverse speeds.
So depending on yourapplication whether that's high
(14:10):
rail or, say, a dump where youneed to back down a couple miles
you're able to go at a safespeed but also an increased
speed, versus two reverse speedswhich are standard on our
on-highway product.
But other features that we'rereally proud of is one called
paver mode, which, with thatfeature, you're able to be
(14:35):
pushed by a paver in neutral andthen, when you're ready to roll
away from the paver, you'reable to just bump it into drive
without hitting the servicebrake to engage the gear.
So you're not going to ripple,the asphalt, get kicked off the
job site and you're able to doyour job much more efficiently
and better.
But one that we really like isprecision maneuvering mode,
(14:57):
which we call the turtle button.
So that is an optional feature.
So make sure your salespersonputs precision maneuvering mode
on your vehicle.
But that basically desensitizesthe pedal and it uses it as you
would a clutch.
So it desensitizes the throttlepedal and you use that as you
(15:18):
would a clutch for low-speedmaneuvering, such as docks or
just tight areas within a worksite, so to make it more safe
for the operator, for the peoplearound on the job site.
So it's special things likethat as well.
As you know, I commented on thesmooth shifting.
Well, we have 29% steps inbetween gears, so that is what
(15:44):
drives that smoothness of theT14 transmission.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Gotcha.
And then another part that'sunique to this build is the PTO.
So I mean traditionally, youknow all the PTOs would be
outsourced, you know, through anupfitter or somewhere else, but
we're keeping this in house.
Maybe walk us through thethought process on that.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, so we have our own proprietary PTOs that are
that are ordered through ourdealers and through our parts
network.
But we made the decision thatwe were going to make PTOs
adapters standard for the secondlife of vehicles.
But what's neat about this isthat we're using our own
(16:22):
proprietary PTOs that weassemble in Huntsville and then
they're filled up with thetransmission and then shipped
off.
These are not aftermarket, sowhat that really drives is first
time quality.
As well as that matches thetransmission warranty for
vocational.
(16:42):
So, say, a typical off theshelf third party adapter PTO
may only be six months or a yeardepending on your axle
configurations.
Most of ours are going to carrya three-year warranty with that
T14 transmission.
So that just is another anothervalue add and confidence in our
, in our product and first-timequality.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, that's a good point.
The warranty is a great, greatpart of it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and it kind of.
I think we were alsoapproaching it with the customer
in mind, right, if you're theowner for the longest time.
The industry, and internationaltruck included, had always
viewed PTOs as something thatsomeone else did.
But by bringing them in part ofa factory, not only does it
(17:28):
help with the quality and to beable to offer the warranty and
coverage that Jonathan mentioned, but it cuts down on
installation time.
It's one less variable for anowner to have to contend with,
right?
If there's an issue with thePTO which we wouldn't expect,
right, they know they can comeback to us and we've got full
(17:51):
warranty coverage and it's allpart of what they're getting
from us, uh, as as a factorybuild.
So so it really does help themwith a bit of peace of mind as
well excellent and, I guess,carrying on beyond 24 to 27.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You know the engine technology carryovers.
You know continuing with thetools, the trainings parts.
You know driver experience.
You're just going to keep finetuning and honing this thing in
as it, as it, you know, makesits way out into the field.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, yeah, Jason, I mean there's, there's probably,
um, you know, perhaps if, if wepass the test on this time, we
may, uh, we, we may earn theright to do another podcast with
you in the future.
But you know, for your audience, thinking ahead to 2027, I know
it does it doesn't feel likeit's right around the corner,
but from a, from a design andmanufacturing and testing and
(18:38):
validation, it's on top of us.
Today, the industry is startingto communicate.
You're hearing from our peersand some suppliers around what's
coming ahead in terms of the2027 emissions and greenhouse
gas regulations For youraudience.
I want them to know that when wetook our clean sheet design
(19:01):
approach way back in 2016, 17,10 years out we were package
protecting.
We were designing with thoseregs in mind.
We didn't know exactly wherethe regs were going to fall.
We just knew that they weregoing to be less than they were
going to be in 2024 when welaunched it.
So we planned for that, wedesigned with that in mind and
(19:25):
the net result is when we'reready to announce which we're
not ready today, but you willsee, fundamentally, the base
design that we have today carryforward.
There is not going to be a lotof change and tear up.
So, yes, so the the driverexperience is fundamentally
going to carry forward.
You know the, the greatexperience that technicians have
(19:47):
with being able to wrench onthese things, that'll carry
forward.
The ownership experience thatthat the owners have in terms of
the cost of ownership shouldcarry forward in a very strong
way.
Lots to be done.
We're not offering our 2027engines today, but the engines
that you would buy from aninternational truck dealer today
(20:09):
are going to look very familiarif you would buy the same
product in 2027, 28, 29timeframe.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Gotcha.
I mean, I think that'scomforting news for a lot of
people listening it's.
You know, technology haschanged so fast and that 27 EPA
guideline is huge.
So knowing that there's notgoing to be a, you know, a
monumental change in thearchitecture of what you guys
have rolled out, I think youknow might put some people at
ease with regards to you know,just what's coming down the pipe
.
That's right.
That's right, excellent, well,hey, lots to look forward to in
(20:42):
the coming years, obviously, butobviously great things right
now for people to dive in andenjoy.
Great, you know.
Customer feedback, driverfeedback, I know, from people
who've done, you know, thedrives you mentioned and the
proving grounds, wonderfulthings to say.
As far as the experience,specifically that transmission,
you know, I don't think they'veever driven anything as smooth,
you know, as what's in there.
So the feedback has beenpositive.
It's nice to to see it gainmomentum, um, and we look
(21:05):
forward to kind of seeing the,the impact it has on the
industry as we go forward.
So it's great and I appreciateyou sharing information with us
today absolutely, yeah, we'retruly excited.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Jonathan and I just happened to represent thousands
of our compatriots here atInternational Truck and globally
, the Trayton Group collectivelyinvested lots of money, lots of
resources, lots of humancapital, lots of money, lots of
resources, lots of human capital.
And the good news is we had ourthinking caps on.
(21:39):
We went about this the rightway.
So, as a group, that's one ofthe things to me that's most
exciting.
I've been with Internationalover 25 years and being able to
leverage the global resourcesthat, frankly, an outfit like
Volkswagen can help bring tobear is really exciting, right.
So being able to see what we'vebeen able to do as an
(22:03):
independent company for a long,long time, but now take it up
several notches, several levelsup in terms of what we're able
to bring from a qualityperspective, from a performance
perspective, from an ownershipbenefit perspective, we're
really excited about how the S13is going to positively impact
(22:24):
the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well said.
That's a good point.
The size of the people and themoney behind this now and going
forward, I think is a testamentto what's out in the field right
now.
So it's nice to see and it'swell stated.
Thank you, hey.
Well, that concludes today'sepisode.
I do want to thank David andJonathan from Navistar for
joining us and to catch up onpast episodes, check out the
(22:47):
transportation exchangepodcastca.
And until next time, thanks forlistening.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the
Transportation Exchange podcastpresented by Rush Truck Scans of
Canada.
I'm your host, jason Cuddy, andon today's episode we welcome
David Hillman, who is the VP ofIntegrated Technologies, and
Jonathan Hutchinson, who's theSenior Powertrain Launch Manager
for Navistar.
Gentlemen, welcome to thepodcast.
Hello, thanks for having us.
(00:35):
So we wanted to invite you guyson, as we're kind of right into
the heart of the S13 kind oflaunch, but not outside of
launch but like actually in thefield, and kind of got some real
testimonial and some feedbackfrom customers.
So when we did this about ayear and a half ago, it was the
to be seen transmissionpowertrain engine after
(00:56):
treatment, and now it's here.
So I thought we'd reintroduceit and kind of go through high
level components and kind ofwhat the feedback's been why
don't we start with what theoverview of the powertrain and
components are?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So the quick overview for those of you playing along
at home, when we talk about theS13 integrated from
International Truck, it's gotthree primary components that we
developed as part of a cleansheet design, co-developed at
the same time to all worktogether and in harmony.
Breaking them down across thetree, there's the S13 engine,
(01:33):
which is a proprietary 13 literengine that generates power that
goes to the T14 transmissionwhich, as you'd expect, would
have uh 14 forward gears.
So that's the 14 and the t14and, capping it all off, the uh
probably the secret sauce of thewhole rep is recipe is our dual
(01:53):
stage after treatment system.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And so those are the, the three major components that
we talk about when we when wetalk about the s13 integrated
gotcha, and I think one of thethings that's been, I guess,
harped on and really had a bigfocus on is that this isn't just
specifically a North Americanbuild.
This is a global platform.
Maybe talk to us about theglobal numbers free introduction
to North American market.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah.
So some of your listeners maybe surprised or interested to
learn that international trucks,which has a history going all
the way back to Cyrus McCormickand the Mechanical Reaper in the
1830s right, we've got a longheritage that we're very proud
of, but as of July of 2021, weare a wholly owned member of the
(02:40):
Volkswagen Group.
So Volkswagen, you know,already owned a company called
Scania out of Sweden, man out ofGermany, and they've had their
own commercial vehicles divisiondown in Brazil for many, many
years.
So those three brands that theyalready owned didn't have a
footprint in North America, andso we became a very interesting
(03:04):
and complimentary piece to thepuzzle.
So Volkswagen acquiredInternational Truck and IC Bus,
our school bus division, and putus together with the rest of
the commercial group under theumbrella brand of Trayton so
that's a new name that some ofyour listeners may not be
familiar with.
So, as part of the Trayton group, we collectively all four of
(03:29):
the major brands within Traytoninvested in a global powertrain,
and so, even though we beganproduction in North America, we
localized the S13 out of ourHuntsville assembly plant in
Huntsville, alabama, and thatproduction began late last year
(03:49):
for North American customers.
Scania was actually, I believe,the first to market about a
year prior, in late 2022.
And so, I'm sorry, in late 21,.
It was in late 21 that theybegan.
We started on board late 23.
Brazil is coming on board, Ithink, around now,000 of these
(04:10):
powertrains out on the roadwayswith over 3 billion miles of
customer travel.
So not just we did a lot tovalidate and and and to test and
(04:35):
to confirm the designs as agroup, but we've got over 3
billion road miles in customerhands globally road miles in
customer hands globally.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So, jonathan, you probably have heard some of the
feedback.
Why don't you start?
And I can add a few pieces thatI know.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah.
So the early returns.
So we got to keep in mind thatduty cycles, say with Scania,
and operations are quitedifferent than here in the
States.
So it's hard to say, hey, yes,we have 3 billion miles, but
then if you divide it by thatmany units, it could only be,
you know, 30,000 miles orkilometers per unit that are out
(05:25):
there running around.
So but early returns on ourduty cycles here in the in the
States have been very, very high, praised A lot of man.
I can't believe how smooth thisis shifting, I can't believe
just how comfortable the seatsare or just the setup of the
interior of the truck.
(05:47):
So a lot of good feedback onpower.
They feel that it has enoughpower.
It's lightweight so we can haulmore payload.
And getting into now ourvocational, which what we call
is our second launch into ourHX620, our setback axle, we're
(06:07):
excited to bring those initialpositive returns from on highway
over to the work truck side ofthe business because we're going
to have a very, very big impacton.
You know, one of our three S'sIf the listeners remember from I
think the first time is one ofour S's is stellar performance.
We put that first when we talkvocational trucks.
(06:28):
But we're also going to getthat same fuel economy benefit
on the vocational side as wellbecause, like my friend David
says, everyone buys diesel.
So not only on highway but alsovocational.
So I'm seeing great, greatfeedback on performance and fuel
economy.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
So kind of maybe even pickingup on Jonathan's point right.
Strategically, when we embarkedon this new design for the
group, we wanted to hit threekey areas for customer audiences
to benefit the drivers behindthe wheel.
(07:11):
We want to benefit thetechnicians in the workshops
wrenching on units and finallydeliver for the owners from a
total cost of operationstandpoint.
And what's great is a lot ofthe feedback and Jonathan
touched on some of it, but thefeedback's really aligning up
around all of those rightTechnicians.
Just you tilt the hood and theygo hey, I can actually see the
(07:32):
engine underneath there.
It's not buried underneath allsorts of claptrap and that's and
that's again intentionally,because we were able to design
out a few problem areas.
Notably, we removed the EGRcooler.
This is designed not to operatewith cooled EGR.
We designed out the variablegeometry turbo which, again, the
whole industry has been usingfor a long, long time.
(07:54):
But most technicians would tellyou it's not as robust perhaps
as a simple waste-gated fixedgeometry turbo, which is what
the S13 employs.
So we went back to some thingsthat were maybe a bit more
familiar.
So the technicians love thataspect.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, and then to add on that, that third item that
we removed was the dieseloxidation catalyst which, as
some people understand and know,is a seventh injector.
So right there, when we talksuperior operating economy and
gains in fuel efficiency,removing that DOC really enables
us for our fuel economybenefits, yeah yeah, excellent.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, so lots of significant technical changes.
You know, and I said, and thedriver feedback's been great,
owner feedback's been great.
But I think the nice part fromNavistar point of view and
support level is, you knowyou're going from the
theoretical to the practicalright.
You had a concept in mind overthe last handful of years.
You're rolling out, you know,country by country, brand by
brand, but the support level onthat, I mean you, you guys, have
(08:55):
to support the dealership, thecustomers and the driver.
You have, you know, boot camps,training, maybe walk us through
kind of the backend supportthat you guys, that Navistar
does to to make sure this is asuccess.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah, so I'll, I'll.
I'll start start with that andthen David can get in.
I'll be the theoretical andDavid can be the practical.
So last year, about Apriltimeframe in 2023, we rolled out
an extensive bootcamp trainingwith over 700 of our dealer body
folks, as well as about 200 to300 Navistar representatives, to
(09:32):
really a week long training ofunderstanding the product, the
three areas the S13 engine, t14transmission, and then our dual
stage after treatment.
We brought them, brought themhere to Lyle, a suburb of
Chicago for those that you knowgo Cubs but so brought them here
(09:52):
for a week training.
We took them to our navistarproving grounds, which is our,
our private track in newcarlisle, indiana, um, and we we
had them drive it, experienceit, learn about it, understand
it, so then they could turn thatinto the practical um when they
talk with, with our listenersand our and our customers, and
(10:12):
our customers and our otherdealer channels.
So I'll let David then fill inthe rest.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think where we're at right now is a
really fascinating point in theprocess of launching something
as monumental as this to theindustry.
Right, we can PowerPoint thesnot out of things with the best
of them, right, but but Ialways tell customers, look, you
(10:39):
know, I mean part of part ofthe part of it is our messaging
and how we convey and talk toboth.
You know, training, trainingthe sales people internally and
training the sales channel forthe dealers.
But but reaching out tocustomers it really comes down
to what I always preach isgetting your drivers behind the
(11:01):
wheel of your vehicles.
Hauling your loads on yourroutes is really what it's all
about.
So we've done a lot to try andget demo units in place of
customers' hands right.
So international dealers aroundthe US and Canada are really
being very proactive aboutgetting units in inventory to be
(11:24):
able to get customer experience.
The proverbial butts in seatsyou know that goes a lot further
in my mind than anything Icould show to a customer on a
PowerPoint when they'reexperiencing it.
The quiet noise level of thepowertrain, the way the
transmission shifts, the powerit delivers, those are things
(11:46):
that we're finding customers,especially the drivers, really
are very positively vocal aboutin terms of hey, you told me
this was going to be good and itexceeded my expectations and
that's a fun spot to be in.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, and to add on to that, right now it's pretty
exciting we have two 53-footrolling billboards trailers
which are our S13 integratedtrailer tour.
So that's really the next phasewe're in now and we've already
reached over about a thousandcustomers that have visited our
training trailers, which havecutaways of an S13 engine, t14
(12:25):
transmission and the dual stageafter treatment to educate not
only our dealers but ourcustomers as well.
So those are rolling around.
I believe they're actuallyheading up to Canada here pretty
soon, so we're excited.
So please come out and visitthose.
But that's my plug for the S13trailer tour.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, it should be kind of cool.
I know we're looking forward toseeing.
I've seen pictures onlinethrough the social media
channels and kind of.
You know we've seen a similartype trailer come through during
the EMV, kind of launch andcustomer interaction.
So obviously similar conceptbut obviously different
technology.
So it'll be very interesting,very cool to see you know
cutaways and get a deep diveinto the technology you know,
kind of be able to look at andsee what's changed and I think,
(13:07):
to your point, you know when thecustomers see it it's going to
be very impressive to look at.
So, jonathan, you touched on theHX20 that was launched in April
.
So that's kind of you know,when this first came out,
obviously, or first announced, Iguess about a year and a half
ago, class 8, you know,traditionally dominates the
conversation for a lot oftechnology and everything we see
(13:27):
.
But you know a good point youmade is that this does also
extremely well in a vocationalsetting.
Maybe kind of walk us through.
You talked a little bit aboutthe lightweight and increased
payload part, but maybe morespecifically the transmission,
because that might be where alot of people kind of have some
maybe questions or concernsabout how does this transmission
, perform within the vocationalworld that you're seeing so far.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, the transmission's exciting.
The transmission is 14 gearsbut it has a wider overall ratio
than an 18-speed transmission,so we're able to do much more
productivity with less.
What's neat also about thegearbox is that it has up to six
reverse speeds.
So depending on yourapplication whether that's high
(14:10):
rail or, say, a dump where youneed to back down a couple miles
you're able to go at a safespeed but also an increased
speed, versus two reverse speedswhich are standard on our
on-highway product.
But other features that we'rereally proud of is one called
paver mode, which, with thatfeature, you're able to be
(14:35):
pushed by a paver in neutral andthen, when you're ready to roll
away from the paver, you'reable to just bump it into drive
without hitting the servicebrake to engage the gear.
So you're not going to ripple,the asphalt, get kicked off the
job site and you're able to doyour job much more efficiently
and better.
But one that we really like isprecision maneuvering mode,
(14:57):
which we call the turtle button.
So that is an optional feature.
So make sure your salespersonputs precision maneuvering mode
on your vehicle.
But that basically desensitizesthe pedal and it uses it as you
would a clutch.
So it desensitizes the throttlepedal and you use that as you
(15:18):
would a clutch for low-speedmaneuvering, such as docks or
just tight areas within a worksite, so to make it more safe
for the operator, for the peoplearound on the job site.
So it's special things likethat as well.
As you know, I commented on thesmooth shifting.
Well, we have 29% steps inbetween gears, so that is what
(15:44):
drives that smoothness of theT14 transmission.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Gotcha.
And then another part that'sunique to this build is the PTO.
So I mean traditionally, youknow all the PTOs would be
outsourced, you know, through anupfitter or somewhere else, but
we're keeping this in house.
Maybe walk us through thethought process on that.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, so we have our own proprietary PTOs that are
that are ordered through ourdealers and through our parts
network.
But we made the decision thatwe were going to make PTOs
adapters standard for the secondlife of vehicles.
But what's neat about this isthat we're using our own
(16:22):
proprietary PTOs that weassemble in Huntsville and then
they're filled up with thetransmission and then shipped
off.
These are not aftermarket, sowhat that really drives is first
time quality.
As well as that matches thetransmission warranty for
vocational.
(16:42):
So, say, a typical off theshelf third party adapter PTO
may only be six months or a yeardepending on your axle
configurations.
Most of ours are going to carrya three-year warranty with that
T14 transmission.
So that just is another anothervalue add and confidence in our
, in our product and first-timequality.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, that's a good point.
The warranty is a great, greatpart of it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and it kind of.
I think we were alsoapproaching it with the customer
in mind, right, if you're theowner for the longest time.
The industry, and internationaltruck included, had always
viewed PTOs as something thatsomeone else did.
But by bringing them in part ofa factory, not only does it
(17:28):
help with the quality and to beable to offer the warranty and
coverage that Jonathan mentioned, but it cuts down on
installation time.
It's one less variable for anowner to have to contend with,
right?
If there's an issue with thePTO which we wouldn't expect,
right, they know they can comeback to us and we've got full
(17:51):
warranty coverage and it's allpart of what they're getting
from us, uh, as as a factorybuild.
So so it really does help themwith a bit of peace of mind as
well excellent and, I guess,carrying on beyond 24 to 27.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You know the engine technology carryovers.
You know continuing with thetools, the trainings parts.
You know driver experience.
You're just going to keep finetuning and honing this thing in
as it, as it, you know, makesits way out into the field.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, yeah, Jason, I mean there's, there's probably,
um, you know, perhaps if, if wepass the test on this time, we
may, uh, we, we may earn theright to do another podcast with
you in the future.
But you know, for your audience, thinking ahead to 2027, I know
it does it doesn't feel likeit's right around the corner,
but from a, from a design andmanufacturing and testing and
(18:38):
validation, it's on top of us.
Today, the industry is startingto communicate.
You're hearing from our peersand some suppliers around what's
coming ahead in terms of the2027 emissions and greenhouse
gas regulations For youraudience.
I want them to know that when wetook our clean sheet design
(19:01):
approach way back in 2016, 17,10 years out we were package
protecting.
We were designing with thoseregs in mind.
We didn't know exactly wherethe regs were going to fall.
We just knew that they weregoing to be less than they were
going to be in 2024 when welaunched it.
So we planned for that, wedesigned with that in mind and
(19:25):
the net result is when we'reready to announce which we're
not ready today, but you willsee, fundamentally, the base
design that we have today carryforward.
There is not going to be a lotof change and tear up.
So, yes, so the the driverexperience is fundamentally
going to carry forward.
You know the, the greatexperience that technicians have
(19:47):
with being able to wrench onthese things, that'll carry
forward.
The ownership experience thatthat the owners have in terms of
the cost of ownership shouldcarry forward in a very strong
way.
Lots to be done.
We're not offering our 2027engines today, but the engines
that you would buy from aninternational truck dealer today
(20:09):
are going to look very familiarif you would buy the same
product in 2027, 28, 29timeframe.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Gotcha.
I mean, I think that'scomforting news for a lot of
people listening it's.
You know, technology haschanged so fast and that 27 EPA
guideline is huge.
So knowing that there's notgoing to be a, you know, a
monumental change in thearchitecture of what you guys
have rolled out, I think youknow might put some people at
ease with regards to you know,just what's coming down the pipe
.
That's right.
That's right, excellent, well,hey, lots to look forward to in
(20:42):
the coming years, obviously, butobviously great things right
now for people to dive in andenjoy.
Great, you know.
Customer feedback, driverfeedback, I know, from people
who've done, you know, thedrives you mentioned and the
proving grounds, wonderfulthings to say.
As far as the experience,specifically that transmission,
you know, I don't think they'veever driven anything as smooth,
you know, as what's in there.
So the feedback has beenpositive.
It's nice to to see it gainmomentum, um, and we look
(21:05):
forward to kind of seeing the,the impact it has on the
industry as we go forward.
So it's great and I appreciateyou sharing information with us
today absolutely, yeah, we'retruly excited.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Jonathan and I just happened to represent thousands
of our compatriots here atInternational Truck and globally
, the Trayton Group collectivelyinvested lots of money, lots of
resources, lots of humancapital, lots of money, lots of
resources, lots of human capital.
And the good news is we had ourthinking caps on.
(21:39):
We went about this the rightway.
So, as a group, that's one ofthe things to me that's most
exciting.
I've been with Internationalover 25 years and being able to
leverage the global resourcesthat, frankly, an outfit like
Volkswagen can help bring tobear is really exciting, right.
So being able to see what we'vebeen able to do as an
(22:03):
independent company for a long,long time, but now take it up
several notches, several levelsup in terms of what we're able
to bring from a qualityperspective, from a performance
perspective, from an ownershipbenefit perspective, we're
really excited about how the S13is going to positively impact
(22:24):
the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well said.
That's a good point.
The size of the people and themoney behind this now and going
forward, I think is a testamentto what's out in the field right
now.
So it's nice to see and it'swell stated.
Thank you, hey.
Well, that concludes today'sepisode.
I do want to thank David andJonathan from Navistar for
joining us and to catch up onpast episodes, check out the
(22:47):
transportation exchangepodcastca.
And until next time, thanks forlistening.
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