Which Street Fighter era was the hardest to compete in? | Extra Trashy - Trash Talk

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
The year is 2015 and Knuckle Do has just won a major tournament
featuring the best players of America with over 200 entrants.
Now the year is 2025 and KnuckleDo has also just won a major
tournament with over 200 entrants featuring the best
players in America. The difference was in 2015 that
was Combo Breaker, an offline major, and in 2025 that was just

(00:21):
a random Wednesday on TNS. So as much as things stay the
same, they're also very different in this era.
Which really got me thinking about what is actually the
hardest era to compete in in theworld of Street Fighter,
Speaking of Street Fighter 4 andbeyond.
So of course I had to assemble the squad here together.
We got Idon back in the show as usual, but also we got a little

(00:43):
special guest here. We got Rob TV back in the mix.
Cause Rob, you've been, you've been grinding some Street
Fighter Six. You're back in action right now.
Yeah, man, I'm I've been training Street Fighter six.
It's definitely been a a good time.
And it's funny that you actuallybring up Knuckle do because you
say things stay the same. I could do, of course, one of my
close friends not gonna do me and his ass whooping.
The Street Fighter Six. OK, let's go ahead and get that

(01:03):
out. There I often dribble.
Give me. Getting that ass tap.
I don't know why, I don't know what he is.
Trying to say Street Fighter 6 is harder to compete in the
Street Fighter 4. What's up?
Is that what you're trying to say?
Well Brian, before I let everybody know exactly why
Street Fighter 6 is the hardest game to compete in when compared
to Street Fighter four and Street Fighter 5, bar none, I
want to make sure y'all know that I got a new series called

(01:24):
Agent Demon. Y'all know I used to be a pro
player back in Street Fighter 5.Some of y'all who are newer
might, I actually know that. So now in Street Fighter six I
am reclaiming my old glory. So I'm going from not knowing 6
at all as far as playing it myself to actually becoming God
like twitch.tv/rob TV live. Y'all don't want to miss that.
Now the reason Street Fighter 6 is the hardest.
Street Fighter 6 is by far the hardest to compete in and I will

(01:48):
tell you guys why. I got some notes down right now.
First and foremost, right, it's the number of players that we
have point blank period. We just had what 7000 something
entrance at Evo when angry Bird won that event.
That was absolutely insane. 7000plus people per two the amount
of paper on the line right. So people ask me what's harder

(02:10):
to win Evo or Capcom cup or EWC or winning karma breaker, and
it's that and the 3rd order stuff.
Listen, wherever the most money at that's the hardest
tournaments to win easily point blank period.
You know what when this man thatwe have right here with the long
breeze right.com Cup 2019 champion, right.

(02:33):
I remember he plays against Punkto God.
Now, at that time, Punk beat thehell out of out on every single
tournament pretty much. It was it was bad.
I feel bad for you out on because you were so great, but
Punk always will destroy you. But then what happened?
It was the all that paper on theline.
It was that that big of a moment.
And Adam won. If that tournament was not
Capcom Cup, it was. If it was not $250,000 on the

(02:56):
line, Adam would not be the Capcom Cup champion right now.
Or, or Street Fighter Five's just that random and that this
scrub over here, Adam, scrubbed out the most consistent player
of the whole series. Adam, what do you got to say?
I don't know, maybe. Just random.
I, I want to, you know, throw this out.
That wasn't the first time I've beaten punk Rob.
I've beaten Punk 2017, Defend the North.
So you got to get your fast. I know I OK, OK.

(03:20):
But also, you know, you're bringing up all this, you know,
outside factors, money and all this, all this stuff.
How do we talk about actual gameplay?
Like for me, Street Fighter 5 was the hardest because that
game was super bare bones. The better player usually won
because you didn't have like your scrubby Dr. rushes or you
can hide behind your little Crouch Crouch tech.
We had to play basic fundamentals one-on-one.

(03:42):
So, you know, your other two games got all this, you know,
nonsense bullshit. We had to go straight, pure
footsies. And fundies, you're almost going
to convince an old boomer like me that Street Fighter 5 was
actually harder to compete in the Street Fighter 4.
But basically what we're going to do this show, we're going to
each give our pitch for why we think each era was the hardest.

(04:05):
I'm going to be representing Street Fighter 4, Item Street
Fighter Five and Rob TV Street Fighter 6, and then we'll break
it down and maybe get some feedback from you guys.
What do you think? What was the hardest era to
compete in? Whoa.
That debate is getting pretty heated and we'll get right back
to which era was the hardest to compete in in just a moment.
But I wanted to let you know that extra trashy and trash talk
are available in full video and audio over on Spotify.

(04:25):
We're currently making a push toreach partner on Spotify.
So if you're interested, we'd really appreciate you checking
us out on that platform. And if you wish to support
further, you can check us out over at patreon.com/bryan under
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We have both free and paid content like early access to
mainline trash talk episodes, behind the scenes videos, and
also free Street Fighter and fighting game related tutorials

(04:46):
on that page. OK, thanks for listening back to
the debate. Let me let me get it set
straight right here, right now. Street Fighter 4 was absolutely
the hardest era to compete in. First of all, I like what Adam
brought up. I like what Adam brought up
right there. Gameplay.
Street Fighter 4 was the last Street Fighter that had

(05:07):
execution as an element of skillexpression in the game in this
day and age since Street Fighterfive.
You could go to youtube.com, type in whatever character you
want, and within 10 minutes learn the optimal conversions
and B and BS for your character and in the entire cast if you
really wanted to, and immediately take that to rank

(05:30):
gameplay with rollback net code online to practice it.
Everything I just mentioned in that sentence was unfathomable
to a Street Fighter 4 player. YouTube did not exist at the
time, you had to practice your links.
Plinking wasn't even understood until like later on into the
game series. So imagine you're 2009 trying to

(05:51):
do Akuma San Roundhouse loops, trying to link jab jab jab with
the Vega. You're getting cooked.
OK so execution players, how to differentiate themselves.
When you looked at Sanford Kellywith Zonie.
When you looked at Sacco, pick any one of his characters that
he made in that game. When you looked at CN with his

(06:11):
Gen. looked at all the characterspecialists that exists
throughout the era, the Street Fighter Four, they elevated
their character to an art form and set themselves apart from
the rest of the competition. Not just because they were
exceptional at the game plan, that was a huge part of it.
Of course strategies is king at the end of the day, but they put

(06:34):
in the work to master their character like it was an
instrument, like they were the composer.
It was a work of art. Would every one of these top
level players. Or import takes care real worker
art Brian Vortex. I played it.
Trust me, it was real art when Iwhen I somebody was sweeping
neutral 5 frame sweep. It's a hot tour.

(06:55):
Empty jump demon fit. Real art.
Listen. Rob, you're the last one to
bring up Vortex. Every character in your game
does Vortexes me with throw loops.
You know, back in my game we didn't have throw loops are, you
know, Vortex hard knockdown. We got one back to neutral. 50%
of the time you had throw loops.Let's be real, OK?
Like you like you're better thanStreet Fighter Six right now,

(07:15):
but 50% of Street Fighter Five'slifespan.
It wasn't it wasn't fifty, it wasn't 50.
It was like 2025% of the game was throw loop in the beginning.
But I'm I'm talking and and Street Fighter Five, that
vortex. Next listen yes a vortex I can't
I I got a break character here vortex with bullshit OK, it was
VS no matter which way you go about it.

(07:36):
However, to be fair to those scumbag akuma players, you still
had to do an option select. You still had to understand the
engine on a technical level to keep it air titles and I played
ball right back then yeah when Igot swept by akuma my homie PD
back in in the day we trained itwas it was Gigi's, but to be
fair, he laughed every wake up scenario.
He understood how to OS every situation.

(07:57):
This game rewarded the lab monsters.
This the the lab scientists who went into training mode and
grinded out how to perfectly optimize their interactions.
They got that touch. They executed the game plan,
they got the win from it, and you had to make sure to outplay
them in the neutral to avoid that situation.
And plus, listen, we're going totalk about later in the game's
lifespan. We got delayed.

(08:18):
Wake up, baby. Listen, we got Capcom was
listening. Capcom paid attention to how
BSS. Was well, we have setups for
that and I will add this. True, bro, that's true.
You want to talk about learning the like learning the the
mechanics. Every fighter six has, for
better or worse, the strongest mechanics in Street Fighter
history, at least some OK, at least in four or five and six.
This is the strongest game mechanics possible.

(08:38):
So when you watch Lachar play, when you watch Blahs and these
guys play, the frequency in which you're seeing these
perfect parries, for example, like the way that they have to
actually master the game engine,I think is far beyond what you
had to do in the past. Also, I can't put respect on
what the players were doing in Street Fighter 4 as far as game

(09:00):
mechanics because a lot of it was also a knowledge barrier.
I know for a fact that I, I spoke with, you know, Justin,
obviously one of the homies, Justin Wong is playing against
Daigo. I want to say 2009 EVO grand
finals and Daigo is doing optionselects.
Justin Wong in the EVO Grand Finals did not know that these

(09:22):
options selects existed. Get outplayed, scrub.
He thought, what are you talkingabout?
He was the better player. He was not a player.
That's not a no, that's not a better player.
That's not fair, the Street Fighter 6 defender is going to
say. That's not fair.
It's not fair that you know moreabout the game than me that
that's the game, buddy. That's the game.

(09:43):
The fact that now the scene didn't know in Japan knew, the
fact that now it's the even playing, we all know what's up
and you just got to beat that guy.
Well, back then, exactly. It was an uneven playing field
back then when I wanted to learnany of my combos.
When I wanted to do headbutt to ultra with Ballrog in 2009.
Christmas 2009, I got my copy ofStreet Fighter Four.

(10:05):
I was like, how do the pros do jab short headbutt into ultra?
Every time I do that they fall out.
I played the game for months without being able to do the
basic combo because the game doesn't hold your hand.
There's no resources available. You have to figure it out.
Trial by fire. Daigo shows up to EVO grand
finals and knows option selects.Justin Wong does not.

(10:27):
Who wins this EVO? The better player with more game
knowledge. The better player with more game
knowledge. I don't care about your
theoretical. If only I knew what they knew.
You don't. When you plugged your controller
in and the set started, you didn't know.
Therefore you were worse at the game facts.
And in this era, getting that game knowledge was part of the

(10:50):
challenge. You had to go to offline locals.
You had a boot up shoreyoucan.com.
You had to go to eventhubs.com. You had to go to your Facebook
local group and deal with the dregs of society on those pages
to find the random garage to go meet up the practice and.
Learn little blog's got to deal with the fact that we have CFN
and and and people can just go look at his actual replays and

(11:13):
see his inputs on everything he's doing on his wake up.
He can't hide anything. That y'all didn't even have CFN
at that time. Or to look at your replays and
see the inputs. All the information is out
there. How do I learn how to play?
The game What do we have CFN on Street Fighter Five?
What do you say I can't have? Four Street Fighter Five.
Yeah, 6 is harder for different reasons.

(11:33):
Even even going back to Brian's argument, like you have all
these combos, all this stuff, you're acting like Street
Fighter 4 also didn't have your fair share of shithead
characters. Like for five, there wasn't that
many St. shithead characters, but you had Abel, you had Forte.
You know, I was a Street Fighter4 poison player.
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we all had our own

(11:53):
fair, fair share of shithead stuff.
Shitheadery. So it's kind of you're you're
using Daigo as the pedestal. But let's not act like lower,
lower than Daigo. There wasn't, you know, stuff
you could get away with our other gum shots.
You could just. Say Street Fighter 4 was pure
footsies and fundamentals. If anything that makes the game
easier. Welcome to Street Fighter Five,
baby. Everything's fair and honest.

(12:14):
Yawn. Dude, We had fucking, we had
Seth, we had El Fuerte. Do you?
You want me to get Pepe on your ass right now?
You want to Are you ready for this shit?
You ready for that wake up quesadilla, whatever the fuck is
going on. I don't even know what's
happening when I watch this man play.
You're not ready for this. This is what the players had to
deal with in this era. At that level.
You are lucky if you've even fought a decent El Forte in your

(12:37):
life up till that point. If you did not live in New York
or California or in Utah for I Peru to beat your ass, Pepita is
going to show up and rock your world and you're not even going
to know what happened because. There was no CFN.
That means it was easier for. Who for who?
Peppa Day not. For everyone else.
OK. And Brian, you know what, also

(12:59):
execution. This is the thing that's that's
another feather in Street Fighter 6 is Cap.
Actually, as far as this conversation of what's harder to
compete in, we're asking what's harder to compete in with, not
what's harder to play. The fact that the execution
barrier is lower means that everybody I go against when I go
into a pool in Street Fighter Six, anybody enters a pool in

(13:20):
Street Fighter 6 for Evo, whatever the hell, every dude
you go against can take 50% of your life bar off of one hit.
You know what that requires? Perfection.
Imagine the game. I heard Marvel 3 is something
like that. My point is you make a mistake,
you miss a jump in, you miss a you know, one thing I do that I
love since I've gotten into liketraining Street Fighter Six over

(13:42):
the last couple weeks, right, isI actually have a hot take and
think that street in Street Fighter 6 versus 5, I'm going to
shoot on some Street Fighter Five.
I don't know. I competed.
OK, OK. I actually believe dead ass
series the average person has better neutral now in Street
Fighter 6 then had a street rider 5 the average person you
play online stuff. Reason why they got they got dry

(14:04):
rush that's. Why?
That's not why I'm saying because when I'm playing people,
what I've noticed is they're more conscious of trying to
whip, trying to whip buttons andstuff because the game forces
them to be because you get with punished into a punished
counter. So now it's no longer a choice

(14:25):
Before I with punish you with Karen Stan medium punch,
something like that. And it's like, oh, OK.
And you keep doing dumb ass shitin this game.
I would punish you into 5060% which teaches you, oh, I got to
be perfect. People's anti air DPS are better
in this game because the damage is so high.
They've gotten jumped in on and they just die.
Die. You're in the corner or you just
die. You got to guess what drive
impact people's neutral and 6 isbetter than their neutral and

(14:47):
Street Fighter 5. Even though Street Fighter 4 was
the last era of new, I don't give a fuck what you 2 are
talking about. Street Fighter four I want you
to watch right now Alex Vai versus Daigo season beatings
right now and tell me the last fucking time you've seen a real
mirror match play out like that.Listen, all props to blahs Crime
mate. I've seen the reuse of this era.

(15:09):
Beautiful, I'm a fan. Have you seen how that match
played out? Have you seen the stand light
kick to shift the hurt box to bait the low Ford into the
crouching heavy kick sweep with punish?
That one two piece combo right there speaks more to the skill
required in Street Fighter 4 than anything else.

(15:29):
You can bring up any 70% optimized combo with no
execution buffers into drive rush.
All these mechanics carrying you.
I'm sorry, it's Street Fighter 4all the way.
That's it. You you guys keep bringing up
execution acting like like 5 didn't have one of the biggest
gatekeeps in execution hit confirming.
I know Brian could have hit confirm Rob, you know Rob, Rob
had good hit confirm, but you know, hit confirming was a huge

(15:52):
part of Street Fighter 50. I missed the Karen low forward
in the tanko. Well, there goes 40% of my life
and I'm close to stun. Like a lot of that stuff
mattered and gate kept so many people.
There were a lot of people in our scene are high level player
that would miss a hit confirm and we're scared to do even go
into the special move because they're like, oh, I might, I
might lose 40% of my life Nowadays a Street Fighter says

(16:13):
to get, you know, 40% for sneezing on people.
In Street Fighter 4, nobody was even doing it.
You were just standing in neutral half the time, just like
walking back and forth because nobody wanted to do combos,
because they were too hard, because.
Our low forwards were honest. You could actually play neutral
and Street Fighter Five and Street Fighter Six.
You stand up once and you explode.
It's GG. You're holding down back about

(16:34):
the whole time and to the easiest combo anyone's ever
done. My version of low Ford at least
took a little bit more skill than Rob's version of low Ford.
Bro OK for one y'all talking about these things but how about
the fact? How about resource management?
You want to talk about execution?
Resource management 3 Fighter 63fighter 6 is the the game that

(16:55):
requires the best and most difficult resource management
out of all three of the titles that we're talking about.
And at any given moment, even when you do land a hit, you have
to decide is it worth it to spinthis right here?
Which combo should I do? Which route should I go with?
It's not just a can't situation.The fact that you start out with
all of your resources and you got to figure I'm down to this

(17:17):
spot now I can only parry against drive impact.
Also we that then that's resource management.
So one I think we all I agree resource.
Management is the hardest. Before your next point, I have
one counterpoint. No other prodigy.
Your argument's over. Dude, it doesn't fucking matter.
Spend your drive gauge, go into burn it and it doesn't matter.

(17:37):
And Street Fighter four and I'llgive a bone to Street Fighter 5.
Super meter does not regenerate at the beginning of every round.
You care if you spent that EX bar or not.
OK, do I use the FADC right now?Do I bank this uppercut FADC on
this or do I hold this, take youto the graves, take it to the
next round. You have to consider whether you
burn this or not Now Ultra. Yeah, you're you got to, you got

(17:59):
to just spend your ultra with. No other prodigy hold up.
My bad with Noah the prodigy. My thing is, for all you know,
Noah would be better if he had better resource management, and
I think he would. Noah has some of the greatest.
Sorry, trying to say that even though Noah is not properly
using resource management, he's already playing the game at that

(18:21):
high of a level. You say that Noah's one of the
best players in the world. I agree with that actually in
Street Fighter Six. So what are you trying to say,
Rob? What I'm saying about that is
that when I speak to elite players, even people don't like
them. They say he has some of the
greatest reactions in in Street Fighter history, like actual

(18:42):
natural ability. Natural ability is going to be
the greatest of all time as far as raw reactions.
So yes, he has such a crazy likeperfection, anti airs and
reactions and react to the driveimpact with this super and all
that stuff that is like the top of what a human can damn near do
it seems like. So yes, he is able to this one

(19:02):
in a million case compensate forthe fact that he's burning out.
But I argued if he did resource manage well then he would
definitely be even better. And you can't just bring up one
player. But yes he would be even better.
The best reactions ever but thengood resource management.
He would get better placements. He hasn't won a Grand Slam.
He hasn't been in grand finals of a Grand Slam.
I think Street Fighter Six actually has the worst resource

(19:23):
management of all. The whole game you just get the
meter back for free. There's nothing.
There's no resource, man. At least in Street Fighter Five,
you know, if I wanted to use my bullshit EX move, EX zonk, EX
Thunderclap, whatever, you know,I'm giving up my meter.
Oh, now I don't have meter for awake up DP or something.
That's resource management. I I know I didn't have super

(19:44):
meter. I don't have super.
I can't do my anti fireball movebecause I don't have meter now.
Like that's actual resource management.
Getting 6 bars at the start is bro, you're just going to get it
back anyway that doesn't. Matter.
You're talking about the start, but what about burnout and and
and real quick? As far as you, you're going to
win. So wait wait, are you going to
Burnout is the harder mode to play in in Street Fighter 6?

(20:08):
Yes, it is. That's welcome to Street Fighter
4. That's Street Fighter 4 right
there. If you if you want the harder
version of Street Fighter Six, just play Street Fighter 4.
From this right, OK, it's StreetFighter 4 right first and
foremost a a player like myself,I don't I don't know what you
would have did because you played bullshit ass Laura.
But somebody like me and Street Fighter Four, if I was competing

(20:31):
in that game, I would have had an even easier time than I had
in five or that I'll have in sixbecause the the damage was low
and the defense was so varied. There are so many options you
had with button text and all that stuff like that, which I
think is cool, right? But with having all those
options, if I'm better than someone, I'm just better than

(20:52):
them. Do you know how much easier it
would have been? You know how many times that
you, Brian, you, Adam, me, Rock TV has lost to somebody in a
bracket in Street Fighter 5 or that you y'all probably in
Street Fighter Six, we're in four.
We're if no, we're saying it washarder to compete.
You're making the argument for me.
Please go ahead. You're making the argument for
me. We're not saying what's the
better game, we're saying what'sthe hardest to compete.

(21:12):
Yeah, you're making the argumentfor me.
Go. Ahead in Street Fighter 4, in
fact, that I just I'm not worried about no motherfucking
Johnny Donuts and six. I'm worried about that
motherfucker. Thank you.
So what you're saying is in Street Fighter 4, the better
player wins more often. There are a larger number of
players who are worse than the game.
As you climb to the top of the mountain, you reach the summit,

(21:36):
there are fewer and fewer players.
Therefore the number of upsets that are occurring, it doesn't
matter in that sense. You're not concerned about
people being upset at the top. What you're concerned about it's
having those people be consistently beating the ones
beneath you. If there's all these upsets
occurring in the other title, that means that it's easier to
get wins. There's more people getting wins

(21:56):
they don't deserve then it's easier to.
Compete with the hardest to compete as in which one is the
hardest tool? I'm assuming that competing we
trying to have somebody win tournaments and stuff like like
men and women back-to-back to back Grand Slam.
Hold on, hold on. I'm like like, like like like
Xiao Hao winning EWC back-to-back, shit like that.
If. You, if anybody on this call is
going to tell me that it's not harder for a minute to win Evo

(22:19):
Japan and Evo Vegas back-to-backin Street Fighter 6.
And it would have been for him for some anybody to do it and
shoot out a four or five. You sound crazy.
So I'm, it depends on what we'retalking about here.
I'm saying because the game is so volatile, it's that much
harder because it's it's a slight at the game to some
degree it's the game to say exactly, but it also makes it

(22:43):
harder to win. No, it makes MENA a fucking
anomaly is what it is. All props to MENA.
He's an alien, that's what it makes.
The same way Angry Bird is the same person.
I lost the young Matt teen on East Coast girl Crazy Angry
Birds. Top beta Evo and Engelberg Top
beta Evo three years in a row. Rob Top beta EWC and Evo three

(23:08):
years in a row. Both of them.
Yes, yes, Rob, there's other tournaments besides EWC and EVO.
You, you people are like, oh, this doesn't exist or that
tournament doesn't exist. This tournament's in the middle.
We're not just going from EVO toEWC back to EVO to EVO again.
There's tournaments in the middle.
Brother, in those tournaments inthe middle, you are just going
to remember the times when the upset happened.

(23:30):
You going to stay young Matt. Team, you literally are going to
you not going to remember the thousand, the thousand young
Matt. Team listen.
We're Angry Birds. Absolutely.
Back in my day, OK, back in the Street Fighter 4 era, we used to
play for a pocket lint, a handful of nickels and some
peanuts, all right? And we did it out of passion for
the game. And those were the most hardened

(23:52):
God gamers that we've ever seen in the FTC.
They were giving it their all for absolutely nothing.
Now, Rob, all you remember is the EW CS and EVO because you
got you guys have the glory, youknow, you got the big prize
pools, you got the evos, you gotthe numbers.
But we literally had to go to strangers garages to figure out
where the tournaments were in order to compete.

(24:13):
So to even get your foot in the door, you had to risk your life
and limb and strangers homes andand and weird back alley
tournaments to even get the chance to compete.
And those it mattered. Those tournaments were that that
mattered. You're saying all these
tournaments in between don't matter?
The same people that would win every single one of these locals
would go on to win eventually the regionals and eventually the

(24:35):
majors. It was it was required for you
to do those stepping stones because there wasn't this online
infrastructure to carry you in between as well.
You had to go here. You absolutely had to get off
your ass and go to these tournaments and they mattered.
That was the proving grounds. You can't just be comfortable
grinding on your your lonesome. Ryan F and Ivan Domination.
I just want to ask you guys something real quick.

(24:57):
Yes or no? Street Fighter 6 by a long shot.
Let's not talk about the gameplay.
A long shot. Do you believe that Street
Fighter Six has the most people ever that are not just good
because we can argue about why they're good that are putting in
exorbitant amounts of their timein their life into the game

(25:19):
right now, in this era right now?
Do we have the most people by a long shot that are putting in X
amount of hours dead ass serioustraining with the intention of
trying to become good and compete in the game and it's not
even close. Let's compare St.
Rider 4, as much as they want the skill separation, no.
No, no. So, so in street rider four and

(25:41):
six, you think it's even close? Let's say the metric was players
that spend at least six hours onaverage 6 hours a day in a seven
day week throughout the year. Rob.
Do you think it's 5 to 4 hours? Nearly as many people even
playing that. Much Let them know.
Let them know what's. Up I, I, I, I think there are
obviously more players than six,but there's a lot more players

(26:03):
who actually had like. Were.
Getting to that level, just to not say like in six, there's
probably a lot of player, but also a lot of those players are
probably or platinum like you have more I'm.
Saying people, do you think there are more people that are
on like a multi hour training regimen?
Like if you look at the time they're putting in trying to

(26:26):
compete. At Evo 2023 there were 7000
competitors in that tournament. That's an amazing achievement.
I got to round 3 pulls in that tournament, nearly round four if
it was Evo, Street Fighter 4. If I'm getting to round three
polls, I'm fighting Mamochi, I'mfighting Pierre Balrog, I'm

(26:49):
fighting Kazanoko, I am fightingto make that top 16 qualifier
match. I am fighting the best in the
world. There can be a million people
competing. Does it mean they're all near
that top level? Does it mean it's actually
harder to beat them? Does it mean that sometimes?
Does it mean that sometimes there's more people?

(27:10):
Absolutely. But does that mean that's
raising the level of the competition?
There's more people, I said. I don't care how many people it
is. I'm not talking about people.
I'm talking about the hours. Yeah.
Are there more people who are by4?
OK, let's put it in a more simple way.
But those are empty. Hours.
They could be empty hours, Rob. Full time Street Fighter

(27:31):
players? Are there more people who
consciously want to become full time Street Fighter players
right now than any other time inhistory by a long shot?
Yes, because people had to be kind of insane to be full time
Street Fighter players back in the Street Fighter. 4 So right
now. He got out to be a little little
delusional. He got out to be a little crazy.

(27:51):
So. That means our players, that
means our top players were nuts.They had listen at NLBC, if and
if certain people didn't win that tournament, they were not
going to eat that night. Rob, you do not.
Know. How it is to compete in a weekly
where people were fighting for their meal ticket.

(28:13):
OK, all of these people are putting in hundreds of hours,
sure, but they're doing it afterwork.
They're doing it in between their their homework for school.
They're playing from the comfortof their own home.
It's different. It's different.
People were scrappy in the Street Fighter for Error.
OK, there were fight. This was it.
This was their way out. This was the only way forward.

(28:35):
They gave it their all and that's what you immediately had
to fight in Street Fighter for. Immediately.
Also, during the Street Fighter five times when it thrown us out
there, there are way more players getting sponsored.
Obviously people are getting sponsored for EWC, but we have
like legitimate sponsors. There are players flying around
all over the world because people were actually getting
picked up for their consistent results, right.

(28:55):
Right. Consistent results maybe, yeah.
But even then I remember I was in Street Fighter five, in
Street Fighter five, in Street Fighter Five, there were players
getting constant results and getting picked up by, you know,
a high profile organization, not, you know, the chief EWC
ticket. And then as soon as you don't
win because games random, I let me, you know, pull out my

(29:17):
ticket. But there were amazing players
getting sponsored and. And and and I played them, but I
wasn't big yet. When, when when y'all messed up
everything because that's when the bubble bursted.
That was the problem. That was COVID that.
Was COVID for all kind of goddamn money to do nothing but

(29:38):
just go to the tournament win orlose and go home or making no
content? Getting top aces, getting top
aces, doing nothing. When I was going to totem it,
say 5, I knew I was going to gettop A.
There wasn't some Joe Schmo. Are somebody going to beat me
randomly and pull? Brother if those sponsors had
more common sense they would be they would have been got more

(30:01):
out of signing El Chikote in Street Fighter five then signing
99% of the players that they signed during that 20/17/2018
era because at least he had a popping stream that's
consistent. St.
You can't bring up that the sponsorship thing when it was
literally I remember them payingpeople 10 thousand $7000 a month
to not even have a stream or a YouTube video and spending

(30:23):
thousands on a plane ticket and the flight in a in a in a hotel
just a playing a tournament and go home.
Y'all arguing about who's the brokest millionaire right now.
I just need you to remember thatnone of this complaining about
not taking advantage of the resource, none of this would
have existed. That's a different.
Conversation. The the the come up that Street

(30:45):
Fighter Four had from its humblebeginnings year after year,
growing as evil progressed, peaking in its final Evil
appearance in 2015. Capcom Cup, the very first
Capcom Cup. You know how much Sacco won for
that Capcom Cup 2013? He won $6000 for Capcom Cup
2013. He was traveling the world

(31:05):
beating ass with robotic execution for. $6000. $6000 And
you know what? And you final.
Cap is nervous. Is Kakaroo playing for 1,006,000
and you think that it was as hard for him to play that green
final? I think everyone I.
Agree that everyone is far more nervous playing Street Fighter
Six because they're going to lose to Johnny Donuts at any

(31:26):
moment. I agree.
I agree. You're playing a or because
you're playing a $900,000 money match maybe.
Or. Because the games is random.
I mean, maybe because there's soskill separation.
Kakaroo also may be less nervous.
Because, you know, as far far asI'm concerned, I won the last
real Capcom Cup. Now everyone's getting flown out
from these other regions that people.

(31:47):
I I had. To play the 32 best players in
the world and qualify from, you know, leaderboard now?
Oh, you're the best player in Bumble?
Nowhere. Oh, who cares now?
You're dangerous. Game Idom Dangerous game.
Idom, that's a that's a fairpoint.
But at the same time, somebody'splaying for $1,000,000, brother.

(32:09):
And I will also argue even at your Capcom cup versus the
Capcom cups now, the way they change it with Warrior stuff.
And by the time we get the top 16, I dare you, I dare you, I
dare you to show me a Capcom cutbracket with World Warrior
because World Warrior had been been there.
That is not just as hard as every other Capcom cut before.

(32:32):
But you're saying top 16? Yeah, my top 32 as soon as soon
as I. Got the top, I'm just saying,
but I'm not saying it was not great under underneath that
though, don't get me twisted, but I'm just saying that the
best players still won. Sounds like a concession.
Sounds like a concession, Rob. Sounds like a concession.
So Street Fighter Four and Street Fighter Five.

(32:53):
We got the Capcom cups. Got you.
I mean, Street Fighter 4 startedthis whole thing, right?
They had to figure this thing out.
It was. Repatting to the players Capcom
cups are you crazy? Yeah, what are you talking
about? You just admitted it right
there. No, I did not.
You said $6000 for grand finals.OK, if, if, if, if the financial
we're grown men. No, that was that.

(33:14):
Was for the first one. That was for the first one.
It was 2015 was the big bucks. They founded this thing is what
I'm trying to say. Between 2013 and 2015, the prize
pools exploded and we got the modern Capcom Cup out of Street
Fighter 4. Because these people who've been
playing for peanuts for years, carrying the scene when no one
could surpass them 'cause there's actual skill separation
in the way the game was structured.

(33:35):
Yeah, they, they, they. Carry you telling me that as a
grown ass man you think that somebody playing for OK well
look at the results right now inStreet Fighter six.
Don't we literally see differentresults depending on when most
of the money online don't men tolose all the goddamn time or
just only do decent until it's abig ass situation?

(33:57):
Don't we see cockrel step up allthe time?
Don't we see Angry Birds step all the time?
Don't we see Shout Show show up back?
I know you love to spin that as being because the money's the
only thing that matters, but once again, I, we both me and
Adam can both just say that justmeans the game's random.
I, I Yeah. That's really games random.
What's that? Adam, hold on.
Let me isolate you out. This this ornament's in the

(34:19):
middle. Street Fighter Six, you're
saying? And then the tournament's in the
middle. Lashar went back-to-back, ***
Yeah, OK, Lashar, I'll give you,But at the same time there's
still other tournament. OK, Lashar won back-to-back Coma
Breaker CEO. Yeah, Lashar.
Who don't won Topanga and blink Respawn, what are we talking

(34:40):
about? The same people win back-to-back
at Street Fighter six. There is no, it's not random.
It's just not it's just not random.
I'm I'm sorry Xiao Hao won back-to-back.
EWC Mina is winning all of theseGrand Slam tournaments over the
course of years. Street Fighter 6 is extremely
consistent. Not even a little bit.
It's actually extremely consistent.
There is no argument outside of Street Fighter 6.

(35:01):
Being extremely consistent, that's I've definitely occurred
outside of the Street Fighter 4 era facts.
That's a fact. I I definitely think that's a
fact. That's a fact.
But as soon as as soon as they reduce the execution barrier,
I'm sorry, people might not likeit.
People might say whatever you want.

(35:22):
As soon as the execution barrierwas broken with the the
introduction of an input buffer to make all links 5 frames or
easier for everyone involved, it's your dramatically increased
the inconsistency and variability in short term sets
due to the high punishing consequences of every hit being
able to convert to high Max damage combo regardless of how

(35:43):
much execution was required to do that.
Prior to these two Street Fighter five, when you landed a
hit there was another layer of skill expression required where
you had to decide in that moment, do I go for an optimal
conversion with which requires higher execution?
Do I keep it simple and opt for a more consistent route?
The the number of the web of options was infinitely more per

(36:05):
touch in that game and lower skilled players would drop their
combos all the time, leading to more experience, higher
consistency, and higher execution players to win
consistently over those players.Therefore it was harder to
compete because you had to put an infinitely more work to break
into that tier. It's just how it is.
Ryan The main content that I waswatching the Street Rider for

(36:26):
and there was other stuff, but the main thing for a lot of us,
which is when I got into the scene.
It was excellent adventures lovethat show the greatest show FCC
show ever right, that's it. I was not learning how to be
nice from Mike Ross to the jankyass setups that he was doing
with his Honda. OK, so I was watching that show
and it was pure entertainment. It was pure fun.

(36:48):
There's playing rank. You know that it was all that
right now, right? If I I have or even even
starting at 5, I would even say but even more now.
But yes, people are actually watching a Brian F video where
Brian F breaks down how to play against Sagat and it's like,
this is what you do as a Sagat player to master them and this
is how you defeat Sagat. And you know what?

(37:11):
There's even channels that have like 1000 subscribers who
actually have great character matchup breakdowns like that
aren't guys that aren't even popular like that or whatever,
right? I would even say I know he's not
that that small. We got people like Chris F,
right? We got so many different
streamers now, so many Youtubersthat have content that's

(37:32):
teaching you how to play the game and understand the game at
a high level. We got range with all of his
great analytical breakdowns where he's breaking down these
things you wouldn't normally be able to know.
So it could be your first time getting in the Street Fighter,
but you got a range video to watch.
It could be your first time getting a Street Fighter, but
you, you got this high fight breakdown, it'd be your first
time getting a Street Fighter. And now we got the fucking
Japanese FGC dropping videos every fucking day.

(37:56):
Fucking Gotcha Coon just droppedsomething that helped me with
I'm God like at Footsie's. It helped me as a former pro
player get better at with punishing something that Gotcha
Coon dropped. These videos did not exist in
the Street Fighter 4 era. So maybe it's not just the
execution of change, maybe it's the information and the
availability of it. Well, back in the Street Fighter

(38:17):
four days in 2009, you had a deal with the Japanese players
who've been playing the game fora whole year, coming over and
taking your money. So yeah, part of the game is
it's life's not fair, man. Sometimes you have a difference
in information and that shit just beats your ass.
So what have I had? You should have been bored in
Japan. I'm sorry you fucked up.
OK? And that's a skill issue, all

(38:38):
right. You know what, you know what we
didn't even bring up yet though y'all Adizi as somebody we all
three of us competed in street rider 5 that was our main.
Well I don't you compete now butin street rider 5 is when we we
all competed and I can say from experience St. rider 6 is one of
the reasons the hardest 2 is because we got the most kids

(38:59):
playing bro. Street Fighter 5 did not have
even close for this amount of young kids that are. 13 Wait,
wait, wait, Rob, that doesn't help your case.
You're saying this game's just made for kids and like any kids
can gotta beat anyone. So like even I don't go, Yeah,
that's not. Good at all Diego CEO 2025.

(39:21):
That's not good. I saw another giant kid beat the
goat's ass. You don't have any
responsibilities. They don't do anything but wake
up and train Street Fighter. Blahs ain't gas shit to do.
Crime ain't gas. Shit to do what does?

(39:42):
What does Daigo have to do? Daigo hasn't had shit to do
besides play Street Fighter for 30 years.
That's literally all I've had todo.
Grown ass man bro and. I like all he decided to do for
30 plus years. 3 All he's done is wake up and play Street
Fighter. Man, these guys probably going
through midlife crisis and whatnot.

(40:03):
Bro, these guys, these kids don't have any.
Blas isn't look, this is my thing with these kids.
Blas is in grand finals in a $900,000 money match and he's
smiling and laughing. He lost that grand finals to
Cockaroo and I don't think his emotion changed.
Because. He's so young.
It did. He can't.
Comprehend how much money he wason a line.
He did. He hit the awe.

(40:24):
Shucks. Yeah.
He lost $900,000. He went oh shucks, good game.
Brother, do you know how hard itis to beat him in comparison to
a grown man who's as nervous as you?
Well, how about this I brought Ibrought up knuckle do in the
beginning, which which it's a pretty interesting thing, right?

(40:46):
I thought that was an interesting stat How 20 in in
2015 he wins combo breaker with 200 of the best people in
America. And then in 2025 he wins TNS on
a random Wednesday at random weekly also featuring the best
players in America. You know, Punk was in that
tournament, right? It is different that in this era
we have those those majors everyevery freaking week online,

(41:07):
which is nuts. But back then, I remember going
to tournaments when I was in college for Street Fighter 4 in
Florida. And who did we have?
We had CJ Truth and Knuckle do top two in every tournament in
Florida, 14 and 15 years old, just like crime and blahs.
Back then, they would they wouldshow up as kids with their
parents in tow. And I remember my very first

(41:28):
tournament, a random kid sat down next to me.
I was the first time out of my own city, you know, scoping out
the competition. He beat my ass with Cami Sagat,
Akuma C Viper, and then everyonewas coming in like, oh, you're
going to take our money, you're here to beat us again.
And it turns out that kid was Knuckle Doo and he was a child
sitting down to beat my ass. So I don't know, I think only

(41:50):
Street Fighter 5 was missing outin the kid prodigies.
I don't know. So maybe Street Fighter 5?
Was easy enough. We had bro our what are my
Hostess? Yeah, we had ending Walker Punk
was really young when he startedoff in Street Fighter Five.
We definitely had child prodigy,but even then as they got older
and they got more consistent. One of punk's best years was
2019, which like I said, was I don't know how old exactly how

(42:12):
old he was that year, But you know, there's something you're
aging and getting better with age that you you can show off
your consistency. So it's also that like that game
actually kind of rewards good game play and staying consistent
and getting better as you're getting older.
Even when I started off in Street Fighter Five, I wasn't as
good. But as I got old, as I got
older, you know, aging like wineand got better and better the

(42:32):
longer the game's been out. OK, how about this one?
In Street Fighter Four, we had adeal with vanilla Sagat.
OK. Yeah, OK.
We had a deal with Ronald Sagat.Yeah, yeah, We had much worse
shit in five. Like we had Abigail, we had
Luke. Yeah, What are we talking about?
Yeah, no, I mean the competitorshad to deal with, but the
problem is when Abigail was broken in Street Fighter Five,

(42:54):
what did everyone do? They bitch and complain until
Daddy Capcom stepped in to nerf the problem for them.
And Street Fighter 4, you know what everybody did?
They picked a top tier. Everybody picked up vanilla
Sagat or they picked the Kuma. They picked the most broken shit
because it was the pre patch era.
You had to pay a full 60 bucks for that new update that came

(43:17):
out in two or three years. You didn't know what was going
to be on there. You had to adapt or die.
And the modern era, starting with Street Fighter Five yearly
balance patches, the patch culture came into play where the
meta was no longer adapt to the gameplay and pick what you had
to do to win. It is who can craft the most
optimal downplay on Twitter. Facts that did not exist in the
Street Fighter 4 era and Street Fighter Five and Street Fighter

(43:39):
Six. That is the way to go.
Patch culture made it harder to compete because as AI know when
I was competing when a patch came out, it was annoying as
hell because now I need to go and learn this new character
matchup that came out and it changes some of the character
matchups so much. Let alone I think we've all

(43:59):
experienced our character getting nerfed to the God damn
ground and all of a sudden you got to go learn new characters.
I would much prefer as a competitor for the game to just
stay the same all the time and then I can just, you know what I
mean? I, I can't, I don't got to worry
about getting passed out. The season's already going, but
now my character's nerfed and I got to figure out a new strategy
or figure out a new a whole new character.

(44:19):
During Why did you get nerfed? Why did you get nerfed?
Because everyone was complaining.
That's the strategy. You, you, you.
Don't know why. You're a victim of this era.
We were a victim. But it made it harder.
Scrubs. Those scrubs would have been
done for back in the. Shoot never get nerfed in.
Why would she never get nerfed in?
Because we be complaining. No one crafted Listen, there was

(44:41):
no phenom. There was just like you got to
like we weren't we weren't clever enough with that.
Like somehow, some way, we didn't figure out a way to get
enough propaganda to get Rasheednerfed.
But I'm just saying that's how it is.
The scrubs complain, get nerfed.Your errors actually might be
worse because you could just place the God and be fine.
At least in our error, you know,we got to, you know, wake up
every morning. Oh, shit, Is Karen going to get

(45:02):
nervous? Is my going to get nervous?
Oh my God, what's going to happen?
Like when you it's just I'm going to pick cigar.
Oh, even if I don't buy super. Yeah, I got cigar.
I'm just chilling. Like what are you saying?
Well, you didn't even have to make this right now in six
brother, this is a thing. You know what makes this one of
the things that makes this the hardest, the hardest game to
compete in? You got to make decisions,

(45:23):
brother, You got you got to makedecisions back-to-back to
back-to-back to back. The mental stamina required to
play this game. I, I, I can do my first of
deaths and everything in Street Fighter five, Street Fighter
four and I did them my first of hundreds, all that stuff like
that and Street Fighter six. I can play for a long time, but

(45:44):
at some point I'm not going to be as productive and I'm not
getting as much out of it. And that point is much sooner in
this game because it's so mentally taxing.
I'm lifting such a heavier weight because of the way that
the game is built in the game mechanics.
So the stamina required for a player to go and win an evil
bracket in Street Fighter Six, or what is much harder because

(46:07):
of the amount of players, so that you got to play more
matches. And Street Fighter 6 is that
stressful. So no other Street Fighter game
in history required this much stamina to compete at the
highest level? But why is it stressful?
Why is it stressful? Because you can't rely on your
skill to outplay Joe Schmo. So you got to be, you know what

(46:29):
it is you can require you rely on your skill, but The thing is
you have to be that much more skilled.
But that means. You're Joe Schmoe if you are Joe
Schmoe in Street Fighter Four orStreet Fighter 5 or Street
Fighter Six. And which era will you see more
success? None of them.
You will see more success in Street Fighter Five and Street

(46:50):
Fighter Six. That is a fact.
That is a fact. You know, Rob, your your
measurement of success is winning a tournament.
Some other people's measurement of success might just be beating
Daigo randomly in bracket, and we've seen that happen a lot,
Daigo just losing to Joe Schmo. How are you talking about?
They've all done it. Why is?
That. What do you mean?
Why is that relevant? Somebody who got nine who?

(47:12):
Somebody who got, I'm sorry, fucking 500th place and and and
but they beat Daigo. That is a that's an
accomplishment to some people and.
What other field of competition would you have a potential GOAT
number one player lose to a Joe Schmo like that out of nowhere?
Does that not speak volumes to the issues?

(47:34):
Does that not? And if it doesn't happen in a
different game in a different era, doesn't that not reflect
that potentially that era is more difficult to compete in if
you can't break into that echelon, if you can't break into
and cause those upsets. I just want to also say I think
the last tournament Daigo lost in five, he lost to Taquito and
Fudo, and I want to say the lasttournament he probably played

(47:54):
before he lost to Kazanoko twice, right, Because I was a
Capcom. Cup.
I think it might have been Kazanoko twice, yeah.
Yeah, I, I, I would hate to bring up the last two people
Diego lost 2:00 and 6:00, but that might not be who.
Are they? Who are they?
Let me tell my. I don't know.
He's lost so many people. But there was Broski Broski and
Jack which are honestly not thatbad.

(48:14):
That's. Not that bad.
Did you just see what Diego versus punk?
Are you kidding me? But why?
Why was that a big deal? Why was Why was Daigo versus
Punk a big deal? Because Daigo.
Because Daigo's strategy was so unique.
Because punk. Usually.
Because. Daigo's been losing a lot,
that's why it's a big deal. Daigo said.

(48:34):
I I was hosting. I was a battle king at Red Bull,
Quinte, France and Daigo lost five O to no other prodigy.
Do you know what? Daigo said in the interview.
Man, I might actually start practicing.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It's funny you bring that up because I remember because I was
watching this tournament, Daigo said.
I lost to Noah. I'm going to start practicing.

(48:55):
He went to Gobble right after and lost to Scrot, Vermilion and
free stuff. Jamie, what?
What? What happened?
Bro, he, the fact that he said he has not been, you think he's
just going to immediately overnight?
Like I said, the next. Day he supposed to be fucking.
God like if he said he. Hurts like next day.

(49:17):
It was a whole. Couple of weeks it's like 3 or 4
weeks later. Brother, come on dog, y'all,
y'all already talking about somebody getting a people
getting a random win like that matters.
Y'all exaggerate. There's a lot that matters.
Y'all exaggerate about how like this whole randomness concept,

(49:39):
the random conversation for Street Rider 6 is dead because
you guys cannot give me a reasonas to why Mina has 60,000 grand
slams. You cannot give me a reason as
to why with all the best playerson planet earth present, Xiao
Hai wins two years in a row. You cannot give me a reason as
to why Angry Bird is in top 8 offucking EVO three years in a row

(50:05):
and is in top 8 of fucking EWC slash Gamers 8.
Three, you don't think this stuff happened in the previous
in Street Fighter 4, but more consistently?
What you're talking about is exceptionable because we were
seeing the opposite for so long and now that patterns are
emerging, finally, finally, finally, what's grasp to any
source of consistency to prove 3?

(50:26):
Patterns. Are different, not random.
But when? Finally, this game is 3 years
old. What this game?
Is 3 years old brother. No, we can't say that.
You say it. Finally, 2000. 9 Evo, 2010 Evo
every fucking Topanga league putthem all together.
Die GOAT. There's a reason people might
have forgotten because of what Street Fighter Five and Street

(50:47):
Fighter Six did to the legends of our scene.
But there was a reason why Diegoit's considered the GOAT.
Go back and look at his results from this era.
We did not have to wait until three years into the game to
finally have MENA Rd. be the savior.
Street Fighter 6. Okay, Michael Jordan was on a
Wizard. That mean the NBA just was bad

(51:09):
because Michael was on the Wizards and all of a sudden he
couldn't dunk from the free throw line.
So the basketball was bad. All of us like 50 years.
Old yeah, y'all sounds. Crazy to me right now to be
honest brother. My thing is when I'm I'm, I'm at
this too, even I'm adding some anecdotal evidence.
So now I'm like about maybe likea over maybe a little over a

(51:31):
week and 1/2 right. And me training in Street
Fighter six, right. Yeah.
And I remember like a year or over a year ago, I played for a
couple weeks with the Kuma. So now it's my first time back
since then. So I have virtually no Street
Fighter 6 experience. I'm playing Ryu, who's the same
character. My fundamental ability alone,
it's putting me in a certain echelon already without even I

(51:53):
don't have the perfect Perry timings down.
I don't have this. That and 3rd neutral alone is in
my former pro experience in fiveis applying to this game just
the same way. In no universe there's somebody
who's just picking up the game. They don't have my fundamentals
perform the way that I'm alreadyperforming in a week and a half
of me playing the damn game bro so.

(52:14):
That. Is proof that Street Fighter 6,
the fact that if if I with punish a motherfucker and I'd
take 60% of his damn life, that Newt still is king in the end of
the day. Rob, that's just fighting games.
If you do that, Rob, I promise you, if you turn on any fighting
Rob, you could turn on City of Wolves and you'll probably be
better than 9599% of the player base.

(52:34):
That's just fighting. That's just fighting games.
That doesn't help your point. So you'll exaggerate about how
much fundamentals don't matter now and somebody could just
randomly. That's not true.
If I can external any modern fighting game and my skill and
my fundamental skill, your fundamental skill is going to
apply like fighting games. This is this is the point.

(52:57):
Ladies and gentlemen everybody watching this please for y'all
who love Street Fighter six, I want you to make sure you use
this exact argument to for when people are saying some dumbass
shit about your 6 fighting gamescome down to mental stack.
That is why somebody like Sonic Fox is able to win in 1000
different games. That's why Justin Wonk win in
1000 different games. That's why if Punk wanted to
become the best in other fighting games, he will also be

(53:20):
the best or one of the best in other fighting games will.
It's because of what Idom just said.
Fundamentals remain the same throughout all fighting games,
with some little small details being different at the end of
the day. Eventually it comes out to me
reading my opponent. How many times have everybody on
this y'all to watch us all make content and watch us all stream?
How many times have you seen us say, oh he's about to and he

(53:41):
does exactly what we said he wasabout to fucking do and we
punish him for it? *** that's fighting games, so it
don't matter. The skill is that I can know
he's about to do that and I didn't study enough to punish
that thing. Street Fighter Six allows you to
do that, and it actually allows you to punish them even harder
that you could have done, especially in Street Fighter 4.
I'm going to be watching every stream from here on out, Rob,

(54:04):
and I'm going to be waiting for that one dude who does DI every
fucking time and you eat shit every time.
I'm going to be waiting for thatreaction.
I, I better not hear a word out of you, Rob.
I better hear you go. Wow, He did random DI on my wake
up in the corner and I died. Well played into 70% of my life

(54:25):
with CA on a comeback. That was so that was such a that
was such a great read on his part.
And I am a failure and I deserveto lose here.
And he is clearly that much better than I am.
I want to hear those words when this happens to you because in
Street Fighter 4, you were not eating.
No random DI in the corner. You had to out Newt.
You talk about mental stack. Yes, mental stack is a core

(54:46):
element of all fighting, but there's different scales to how
that applies. What about spacing?
What about footsies? Right?
What happened to the pure fundamentals that used to run
this series, huh? Just like, you know, El Fuerte
and Hakan and Abel and and Seth and and, you know, invincible.
Wake up STD. You know, my my game with the

(55:10):
actual real FTSE of, you know, walking back and forth.
Nobody wanted to, you know, jerking position because nobody
wanted to jump because you wouldjust get anti aired or, you
know, checking a dash because nobody wanted to do anything
that that was the actual real for.
Yeah. True, actually no one was doing
shit in Three butterfly. Elbow bro, I remember your light
elbow loop. That was not Nucha, brother.

(55:31):
That that was Nuchi. You just didn't put in a vortex
because you know, characters. We haven't even.
Brought up V trigger Wait a minute, Rob, what are we doing?
I I feel like it's been me and Iand I'm teaming up and see Rob,
what, what are we doing? We we got V trigger over here.
What are we even talking about? GV.
Trigger, you see this is the problem like I knew you guys
were going to do it. So I counterpoint for both of

(55:51):
you guys. You guys are complaining about
GV trigger or V trigger, where'sKaren V trigger where's re UV
trigger? You know with rob bro, I hate
every drive rush. Every button in the drive rush
is every character doing the same thing, every character
doing crowd checks doing the same.
At least with my game it was character specific complaint.
Now you guys are just complaining about anything and

(56:12):
that's kind of the thing the Street Fighter Six has going for
it. The game knowledge is kind of
less because you just run your flow chart with your character.
You just lab your, you know, youlab your.
Flow chart for like a couple of.Hours.
And then you just do your thing.You're trying to talk
characters, you're trying to talk character specific
matchups, trying to talk character tech.
Street Fighter 4 was a complete mini game based on the character

(56:34):
matchup you had to play. You had to know the insurance
and outs of every character. Yeah, we had universal
mechanics, we had focus attack, whatnot.
But besides that, there was no universal dry rush.
DI Perry There was Video V Trigger V Skill.
It was completely different every single character you
played, and the variety in the character matchups was next
level there was and how many characters in Street Fighter

(56:55):
448? What are we up to in Street
Fighter? Six.
It's 44 for your game and it's 45.
Easy as Street Fighter 4 though Defense was easy.
So is that the IS? That vortex or is it or is it
easy defense, Rob? The vortex was broken, but your
regular strike throw defense waseasy as hell.
You didn't have to make no decision right now if somebody,

(57:15):
if you're going to wake up Perry, you committing if you're
going to, if you want to DP thatshit.
Costs you wake up Perry OS to drive rush and to a billion
percent. What are you talking about?
You're committing. You're committed hard because if
you get thrown, you get when it's counter everything that you
know. Is counter hit thrown?
You can counter hit thrown. You know what it is OK, which

(57:37):
game would you rather get knocked down in the lease?
Street Fighter. Why?
Wait, it's five? What the fuck?
It's definitely 5. Get knocked down.
Throw in your back in neutral. No, you want to get Which game
would you want to get knocked? Down.
Would you rather get knocked down in the lease?
Like which one is worse to get knocked down in 4-5 or six?
It depends on who I'm fighting. Yeah, if.

(57:58):
It's at least, at least with ourgames, it depends on who we're
fighting. Every character is doing the
same thing inside. OK, so that means that's.
Not a good game, right? If Johnny.
Donuts throws me into the corner.
I'm going to lose because. You had to be.
Where's my? Where's my quarter here?
Let's let's open a coin flip appreal quick.
It doesn't matter who you're. Gonna be that much better and

(58:20):
you better check that drive risk.
You better wiff punish. You better anti air.
You better not miss it. That's alright.
Guys, how about this? How about any closing arguments
we have? I think, I think we've we've had
a good debate here. I'll give my last closing
argument for Street Fighter Four.
I think Street Fighter 4 was thehardest game to compete in just
because the level of execution required, the dedication
required to even break into the scene and the passion required

(58:41):
to dedicate yourself to compete in an era where we didn't have
these large E sports prize poolsor weren't sponsors in the
scene. All the players that competed in
that era really founded what we are working on today.
If you enjoy the Evos and Ewcs of today today, you owe it to
the scene from this era to make that a reality.
So for that reason, I say StreetFighter 4 is the hardest error

(59:02):
to compete in. Any closing thoughts item?
For me it's Street Fighter five.You know, people would be like
Street Fighter 4, but honestly, Street Fighter 5 was the gap,
the bridge to the Street Fightersix and, you know, getting all
this money and stuff. We, you know, we weren't playing
for peanuts or, you know, 6 grand for Capcom cup.
We got to like the quarter million and then obviously Rob
took it all the way up to the tothe million.

(59:23):
But also even being that, you know, games more bare bones, it
was harder to get good because there was nothing you could
really talk about because there wasn't much to the game anyway.
It was so there was so simplistic that there was it was
beauty and simplicity and being good at Street Fighter Five.
You can watch somebody play Street Fighter Five and just be
like he's doing nothing and it'sbeautiful.

(59:45):
I like that argument, you breaking the 4th wall a bit.
I actually think that Adam had amuch better argument than than
Brian by far because Street Fighter five.
In the end of the day it's not Brian's fault, it's just because
the truth is more on fucking outof Homicide 3.
Fighter five I do think has the best of both worlds where one
that yes the there was a lot more people competing at a

(01:00:07):
serious level than Shoot rider 5than Shoot rider 4.
Just numerically the stakes werehigher than Shoot Rider 4.
And it didn't, it did have a much higher entry like floor
level in a Street Fighter Six has personally.
OK, Rob. I'm going to do this better for
you. You're saying 5.

(01:00:28):
It wasn't as hard as 4, but it'snot as scrubby as 6, so it was a
perfect middle ground. Thank you, Rob.
No, no, no, I ain't saying scrubby now I.
Ain't saying that's what you said.
We still need your closing. You're you have an item on this
credit here. What is your closing Street
Fighter 6 steel man argument. Why Street Fighter 6?
Be the hardest game? No I do think no I I 6 is the

(01:00:48):
hardest game to compete in. Like Dukes I saw it by by far.
It's just point blank that it has the the the most players,
most money on the line. I really cannot stress that
enough. Street Fighter in a big money
tournament versus a Street Fighter outside a big money
tournament is a whole different thing.
Everything comes down to pressure.
Actually, if you look at somebody like Chris T and Blahs,

(01:01:10):
right? If I ask you guys what you think
their skill level is out of 10, I think y'all might put Blas at
like a nine and you might put Chris T at like a 7 or 8 or no
not even an 8. I don't think you put them one
below. You put them so much below.
I actually believe that the skill gap between a dual Kevin
and a minute Rd. between a ChrisT and a Blas is this small, if

(01:01:33):
it's there at all. I actually will give a hot take.
All I say is the GOAT of Street Fighter and I believe that.
I don't think Minute is better at Street Fighter than dual
Kevin. And that's just one person I'm
bringing up because that is not why somebody is fucking winning.
So when you look at results, if if, if we had casual matches,
the results will be different. When it matters the most, when

(01:01:56):
there's all this on the line, stuff changes.
Street Fighter Six has the most of that, the most stakes.
The average skill ceiling has risen because there are more
people. If you have any common sense
faith in humanity and people at all.
I would imagine if me, Brian, and Adam and all of y'all
watching this right now, if all of us put three hours per put

(01:02:17):
one hour per day into into a skill versus putting 8 hours a
day into a skill, I think we will all be much better putting
8 hours. And nowadays there's just way
more people putting in eight hours a day than in the Street
Fighter 4 era and even in the Street Fighter Five era.
And yes, some of the stuff that is scrubby about Street Fighter
Six, which I agree, Rush is crazy.

(01:02:39):
I can't even believe that shit even exists.
Drive impact and all that is notyou not got like no drive impact
in the history of Street FighterSix has ever been got Like, I
don't care if you ever hit somebody with a drop impact in
the corner. You have never one time been
good for doing that. I don't care if it's Angry Bird.
I don't care if it's men already.
I don't care if it's punk. I don't care who's doing a drive

(01:02:59):
impact. That's not nooch, that's not
skill. That's not got like, however,
since that is so scrubby for youto be able to win consistently.
The hardest time to do it is right now in Street Fighter Six.
That's my closing argument. I agree with that, yeah.
So all jokes aside, I, I do think Street Fighter 6 is the
hardest era to compete in. I do think there's different
elements, like in terms of the actual game mechanics versus

(01:03:23):
the, the community around the game, right?
I, I just think overwhelmingly like there's so many players and
the stakes are so high. Like you just can't, it doesn't
matter even in Street Fighter 6.I don't think Street Fighter 6
is scrubby. Even if it was, if it was 20
times more scrubby, it would still be the hardest era to
compete in just because there's an overwhelmingly,
overwhelmingly large majority ofplayers playing in this era for

(01:03:43):
more stakes with more full time professional players.
It's just the numbers are too great in that sense.
If it was kind of equal, I thinkyou would be able to like focus
more on the game mechanics and make that argument.
Because I would argue that there's some things about Street
Fighter Six that I do think makeit harder to have that level of
skill separation at all levels, even though we see it at the top
level. But yeah, too many players.

(01:04:03):
It's just like it's an insane amount of competition right now,
but I it's an interesting thought experiment to think
like, what if we just moved swapthe games like what if Street
Fighter 4 released right now with this level of competition?
Like how would that pan out? You know that to me is an.
Interesting, but. But would Street Fighter four

(01:04:23):
solve the bad net code? Like that's kind of the main
thing. That's what I think 6 has.
The best argument for the six isnet code, because I think 6 is
probably the hardest, but I think it's 'cause you could, you
could practice so much like playonline.
Everyone's playing an online tournament.
Back in my day, online tournaments were frowned upon
and nobody even cared. But now, like, people are taking
these online tournaments kind ofseriously and, you know, World

(01:04:44):
War and all that stuff. And that's the other element
that the O the OG is always harpon, which is I was trying to tap
into like the information disparity, right.
A lot of the OG always try to make the argument that like it
was harder to compete because you lacked information versus
information is freely available everywhere and therefore there's
no secrets to hide. Like what makes something more
difficult, right? Like I don't really know where I

(01:05:06):
stand on that. I learn more towards more
information available. It raises the skill setting,
therefore makes it harder to compete.
Like that's where I lean. But there is something to be
said about that. Like there's a like you
literally had to work harder in some ways or be lucky.
I guess there's an element of luck, right?
Like I must say, you can't work to this.
Information. It's just luck you I can't work
hard to learn pro tech. Like there was just no way that

(01:05:29):
I could know about 3 button tech4 button tech.
I that like I can't grind. I could play for a year and just
never know that, even if I'm dead serious, you know?
What I mean, you got to go to your local and ask somebody how
they keep tech in every throw and hitting light kick.
That's really what it was. Isn't that you had to get lucky
to have a local? Like I got lucky that I had a

(01:05:50):
dude who taught me a lot of Street Fighter 4.
So I had a dude I played, went to a local at my college and
then my guy JC said, hey, you'rekind of good, let's play.
And then he taught me, like, everything, you know what I
mean? Like I got lucky, right?
Bro I think Justin literally told me at EWC that he did not
know what Crouch teaching was. That's what it was.
If I don't know if y'all know this information but me and

(01:06:10):
Justin did a video together. He didn't post it yet, but I
think before we even shot or maybe even during it, he said
that he'd literally in EVO grandfinals against Diego, thought
that Diego had the greatest reads of all time because he
kept taking his throws and when he would shimmy he would never,
he would just Crouch, light kickor something like that.

(01:06:31):
You you sure it wasn't Crouch check with crouching heavy
punch? I think people knew Crouch.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think people knew Crouch check at the
time with light kick but I don'tthink people knew.
Like Rufus you can Crouch check with Crouch fierce other
buttons. So if you went for dive kick he
would Crouch heavy punch. No, no, he said he did not know,
if I'm not mistaken, because this is recently how he said he
did not know at all that and they.

(01:06:53):
Had no idea regular cross check at that time that that like
that. It's crazy to me because I know
we. Think about that bro, because.
His Rufus wasn't working. Like it's not illegitimate like
that goes to goat, but I'm just saying you get what I'm that's
not a. Right.
So you you, you value more having an even field of
information and people playing from that versus like people

(01:07:13):
getting an edge because they have Privy to more knowledge due
to whatever circumstances. There's people right now when
I'm playing Street Fighter Six that can beat me that I'm far
better than and I can tell I'm far better than him.
It's not like a ego thing. There's people who are better
than me and I can tell. But my proof of this is like
literally, OK, maybe I'll play them today and literally 2 days

(01:07:37):
from now or one day even, or oneor two days from now, I will
destroy them. Because there's just an
information gap in which your character does.
That's just why how fighting games work.
If you don't have equal information, we aren't even
playing the same game. But that's.
Interesting. Like I agree with what you're
saying. I do think it takes a lot longer
to build the fundamental skill set, which is what you've done

(01:07:58):
over the years, right? You have that and I know that
feeling too, right? You're playing someone you're
like, sometimes I'm losing even in 2X scale I'll be playing
someone like I'm losing this guy.
But I know for a fact if I figure out the the trick in this
situation, I will never lose to them again.
There's a trick here. I'm getting in a looped offense
sequence and I'm like, I'm getting destroyed right now.
But I know for a fact there's some kind of gap or something

(01:08:18):
I'm not exploiting to shut this down and never lose again.
And once you cross that barrier,your fundamentals carry you the
rest of the way. They try that bullshit now.
I know now swat the fly away, right?
Now he has to actually play you.Right.
But but it's interesting, like I, I feel the same way as you,
but like you look at another game like a more information
based game like chess or whatever, right?
That's all there is is as an information gap.

(01:08:40):
So is it really that much more? Like is it really that much more
valuable or that much more proper to have the fundamentals
and be lacking the information and like, oh, I am the better
player? Or if you win via an information
gap, is that not just as valid? Right.
I kind of lean towards what you're saying.
Like I think the fundamentals are better because you'll

(01:09:01):
probably go further over the long term, but information gap,
that's a huge part of other games, that is a part of how
other games operate is just knowing more than the opponent,
you know? Yeah, that is that is you that
much. I just think it could appear in
four, like I think in four, the gap is far too wide to for me to
respect that information gap. You hear what I'm saying?

(01:09:24):
It was literally just I was bornhere or I like if if somebody
had information, they just literally like you put in the
work to read more chess books than me and to you know, you
studied harder and you did all this.
It was just I was I'm from California, I'm from New York,
Oh, I'm from Ohio. So I'm a lose.
Like that's you know what I mean?
Like that's not as and the the the gap is so extreme, bro

(01:09:49):
Justin Wong, it was better than Diego in in that grand finals.
That's my hot take. I guess you want to call it a
hot take because he reset the bracket without knowing krauts
tech exists and he kept that means he was better but he but
he ended up losing it because there ain't no krauts tech
exists you know? What do you think item do you

(01:10:09):
think? Do you think that counts?
Because like, how about this? Like I mean, you know, you won
Caprim Cup with Laura. Some people would argue your
fundamentals God like. Not trying to information gap OK
some people. Some people might have argued
that there might have been, for once, the information gap the

(01:10:29):
other way, where the Japanese community was far behind in the
lower matchup because you were the.
Lower they were, they were. Yeah, they were.
But I think stuff like that is cool.
I think having information gaps is a test like like it's kind of
you, there's a test tomorrow, you know, there's a test
tomorrow. You would study for the test.
If you don't study for the test,that's your fault.

(01:10:50):
Why didn't you, why didn't you study?
So that's how I. Don't think they could study for
your. I remember that they can't.
They could. You could study.
You could study and maybe not be.
The best they were studying for the wrong class.
You know what I'm saying? Like I kind of understand what
Rob is saying. Like you thought it was a
physics exam and it's, it's likehistory or something.
Like you're totally studying thewrong curriculum at that point.
But there is a balance because it is super fucking sick when

(01:11:12):
someone shows up to a tournamentwith a stretch strategy that no
one was ready for and they went with that.
I think when the right balance of information gap happens, it
blows people's minds. And I think that leads to really
entertaining events. And so like, I think to me, that
is like a skill. I think that makes it, if you
have that ability to produce that in a game, have a hidden

(01:11:33):
strategy, I think there's a little element of skill with
that which we've kind of lost. But I do agree, I think overall
that means it's harder. But I do think that we lost a
different element of skill expression, having the surprise
strategy. It's very hard to have that in
this era with all the tools and the way the game engines are.
It's very just like in Street Fighter Four.
I think there was an element of skill expression with execution.
I do actually believe to a degree that was another vector

(01:11:56):
to differentiate yourself with the players.
It's not everything. I was leaning hard into it for
the sake of the argument here. It's something, not everything.
I think strategy is more important, but that was an
element. Sacco just factually was
different and better than other players because of an an A no
small part. Part because of his execution
right so I think we kind of lostthat in this era the surprise
strategy have we been like really surprised what's less

(01:12:18):
have been surprised like I thinkthe the only thing that we could
bring up is probably men are doing so well with Blanca and
even then is that's that's the surprise but I think if even if
you ask all of us we we all probably think Blanca's good at
six so that's not really. Yeah, but nobody had like, Yeah,
nobody has. Them top five, but at the same

(01:12:40):
time, that's probably the last time we've been surprised by
someone's gameplay, really. You know, I I would also, I want
to make this concession to like now that we're not doing Steel
Man. I do think that the average how
can I put this the scrubbiness right of fighting games has

(01:13:01):
increased tremendously with every passing site out of all of
our games. Scrubby game is St. rider 4 in
my opinion. Like I think it's still hell of
scrubby stuff in it. But like I said, the fact that
if I play street rider 4, bro, like I really do think which to
me for somebody who put would bewilling to put in all the hours

(01:13:23):
I put in the Street Fighter five, I'll put the same hours in
Street Fighter four. That would have been easier for
me to win consistently in in theStreet Fighter five.
You get what I'm saying? And like I wouldn't lose to no
fucking randoms ever. The way this game is built right
now, the mental stack and stuff,I'm talking to shine and he's
like like studying character matches.
He's honestly also the charactermatches as much I do drills

(01:13:44):
because I he's like I'm more so do drills of perfect Perry or
react to this and XYZ and I'm like, damn, that's kind of ass.
The fact that that's so important, you know?
Yeah, as someone as someone who's compete like competes in
six, I will have to say it's notreally character matchups.
Character matchups kind of don'tmatter anymore.

(01:14:05):
Like we kind of lost that element like 4 does it better
than 55 had it still with like Laura and you know, know how to
fight like Barog and all these other characters.
But yeah, Six kind of went away from that a lot.
But I also think that's a blessing because there's a lot
of people who don't like knowledge checks.
Kind of like what you're saying,Rob, are information gaps like,
oh, this guy beat me, but he's just doing some scrubby with Al

(01:14:28):
Forte that I don't know how to stop.
So, you know, this game sucks. I'm going to play something
else. At least in Six is like, OK, he
beat me. He might have throw looped me.
I know how to get out of this throw loop.
I just got a tech this time or wake up DP.
It's not an information gap. It's I know what to do.
So it makes it it it's it's moreabout read heavy.
Yeah, that's what you value because because even at the high
level of Street Fighter Four, there was still tons of

(01:14:50):
information yet because that game was so deep and because of
the execution requirement, even if we had like the tools we have
in Street Fighter Six, imagine like net code, all that, even if
you had that replay takeover might be your saving grace.
But like even just recreating what someone did to you in that
game, would you actually have tomaster the the character replay
takeover might save you because you just hop in that situation.

(01:15:11):
But without that man, you'd be people would do the gnarliest
weird tech 5 layer OS on you. Memochi was doing like DP throw
tech OS man. Like for people who don't know
literally I, I forget the exact details, but he had an OS at the
end when he won his, he won Evo 2015, captain Cup 2014 and Evo
2015 with a lot of Ken. And part of that was like an OS
where he would do like a throw aCrouch tech and like a back dash

(01:15:34):
and ADP and it covered like 8 out of like 12 options.
And it was like he would just hit you with these media SDP.
Sometimes it was some bizarre tech.
He had a whole lecture about it and like how do you even begin
to cross that barrier as a mid level player?
Yeah, I know, but you look. At you look at boxing like we
just had Crawford Canelo. Like in boxing bro.
Imagine if in boxing you know which is only fighting with your

(01:15:58):
hands and one of the fighters somehow found some loophole that
they allowed to start kicking the motherfucker but the other
fighter not allowed to kick Bro that's not God.
Like if you beat him in this fight because you found this
loophole and put in your contract, you was able to.
Kick. I like the I really like that
about fighting him, though. I really like the pushing the
engine and like, to me, there's this invisible barrier in every

(01:16:21):
game, in every engine that the developers created, this sandbox
that they're trying to get you to play in.
But every once in a while you find like a a little leak in the
wall, you know what I mean? You're like, wait, what's that?
What's that? And then you break that barrier
and you completely change the way you can approach the game
and it's outside the realm of what like the the invisible hand
of the developer that was guiding you towards a certain

(01:16:42):
path and you suddenly take a newuntrotted path.
I love that shit. And I think fighting is one of
the best genres for exploring that.
But you know, as we've gotten more developers have gotten
better at executing their vision, which means restricting
the player. We've lost a lot of that, like a
lot of the a lot of the great fighting games of our time, or
before our time really, that really made the genre what it

(01:17:03):
is. NBC 2 That was lightning in a
bottle man that was a fucking freak accident.
Like all that shit that happenedin that game was not
intentional. Even NBC 3 was like the last
element example of this I think and CBS 2 role cancelling that
saved the game. That wasn't even intended to be
in the game, right? Melee Melee is also very high up
there too. Melee is perfect example.
Nobody expected that game like that, but it's it.

(01:17:26):
It sucks. But at the same time I do like
from playing Marvel three. I think one of my favorite
tournaments was pseudo one with rocket beautiful Joe Frank left.
That was one of the hypest tournaments ever because that
team sucks. But he came with a strategy and
he had no one knew how to fight it.
Yep. You know, stuff like that is
hype. Like I think for Street Fighter

(01:17:48):
six we would have to see like, oh, Lily win a tournament with
something. But even if Lily does like
Crouch, heavy punch, drive rush,command grab, everyone's just
going to be like, yeah, it can happen to you.
It can happen to anyone. They they got rid of jump tech
command. They got rid of a command grab
jump. What's the name of it?
Jump cancel command. Grab so like we even had an

(01:18:10):
element of that with grapplers, right, doing jump cancel command
grab, which means you could wakeup with that and if someone went
for a meaty throw, you'd be airborne.
The throw would whip and then they would cancel that to
command grab and punish you. That's an example of like, oh,
I'm kind of breaking the bounds of the guiding hand of the
developer and captain came in swiftly, got rid of that.
Or what is it called? Yeah, homogeny.

(01:18:31):
I don't, I don't or whatever thebook like I don't.
I don't like that it's forced. You're forced more to be just
streamlined. You have to play this way.
Like there's pros and cons, man.I I personally, if I was a
competitor who will frustrate methat they want to make it more
and more accessible for everybody, right, like for I

(01:18:51):
don't. I'm sure that's annoying as
hell, but I also like the fact that it get more people to play.
For example, I'll also like the fact that the game is balanced.
I would like that as a competitor it's hard to have
such a wide open sandbox and have a balanced game.
The reason every single Street Fighter 6 character is viable is

(01:19:12):
because the system mechanics make everybody viable, or you
get to pick whoever you like. I think it's fine to Yeah, I I
definitely agree there's different expectations.
Now, Street Fighter 4, there's tons of hitters that are just
ass, right? But that's kind of part of the
fun. And I think that's also part of
the fun of like the Rocket Raccoon example.
Like those characters are bad and sometimes bad characters
make things surprising. So I think that makes it more
fun, but it also makes it a little bit more challenging as a

(01:19:35):
competitor. Sometimes people come up with a
shit, you just don't know that information gap.
But I think at the end of the day, I don't know.
I, I do think Street Fighter 6 is the hardest to compete in
overall. I think, I don't think the game
is random that much, but I do think the skill floor is a
little bit like lower. That's easier to get in and it's
riskier. But there's too many players now
and the, the level of stakes is too high.
So I still got to go Street Fighter Six, but I don't know.

(01:19:58):
What do you guys think? The audience?
I'm curious. It is the easiest to get
scrubbed out in though. Bro it is it's you better think
it's the easiest to get scrubbedout in though.
You think so? I don't know it depends on the
level. Think about Street Fighter 4
Zengi, if you got me thinking about this, I think at mid level
and low level, I think Street Fighter 6 is the most fair and
the most skill based of all the fighting games, because I think

(01:20:19):
Street Fighter five. I think Street Fighter five at
low level people are it's they're still match ups and B
triggers. B triggers are very nullifiable
at high level, especially since they nerfed all of them.
So you know the match ups and you like Abigail, whatever you
can V shift this, whatever you nullify, you know the trick?
Low level, mid level, you're getting smoked, right?
Street Fighter 4, low level Zengive does lariat or command

(01:20:41):
grab your smoke dude. Lariat is like you can mash
lariat with saying even Street Fighter four and beat all your
friends right now. They will not beat you.
Just just press 223 buttons whatever over and over and you
win. So I think Street Fighter 6 is
actually the most skill based game at low and mid level
because it's like this is how you play.
Do it like DI beats DI, Perry beats this, throw beats that,

(01:21:03):
this is it. So I I think at low level, mid
level, it's the most skill basedgame by far.
Brian, I know you're going to close the video.
The one thing I want to make sure I mention too, because I've
been one thing that's really cool Shoe Rider 6 is I know
people talk about a lower skill floor, which I also even
mentioned, but again, content creators, but outside as content
creators, bro, the fact that they have the character guides

(01:21:27):
and stuff were like I didn't exist back in the day.
The fact that you can just this your first time really playing a
a fighting game or learn a fighting game and you go to the
Bison character guy the real care and it's showing you every
normal and what you can do with the normal and what the
developer is intending in use this as a poke to control this

(01:21:49):
space. Use this as a wiff punish.
This is a good anti error option.
That type of stuff makes it so that you are thinking about
concepts that you never would have thought about when you when
we were first picking up a fighting game.
I didn't even know nothing abouta lot of stuff that they're
talking about. So I think that and replay
takeover also makes it so that people are going to like, if my

(01:22:10):
point is, if St. Rider 4 was here today, but it
had replay takeover and it had character guides and it didn't
even have more people. It had the same amount of
people, the exact same people, but you gave them these content
creators, these character guides, replay takeover.
You will also see more upsets actually I think even in that
game. So funny you bring that up.
I have a hot tick. If every character if you could

(01:22:31):
do calm, if they give Street Fighter 4 the buffer window that
five and six has, I think that game would just be like it would
be sporadic, kind of like Rob said.
Nobody would like people would be getting got constantly.
You'd be like, oh, I got knockeddown by akuma or Forte hit me or
whoever it might be. Abe will knock me down.
If if there if you didn't have to worry about Joe Joe Schmo
dropping his combo. I think we have just.

(01:22:54):
I cannot overstate how much the execution assistance from the
input buffer has changed the waythe games are thought about in
balance. I'm not exaggerating that the
fact that I can I can Wake up DPand Street Fighter four and you
are likely to drop the combo if you are not a top level player,
you're going to I don't care like I'm just like I I but out
Newt you out Newt you. If you happen to knock me down,

(01:23:16):
I'm probably going to reversal if I don't think you're a good
player because I don't even careif you're going to punish me
because you're probably going toget a throw at best right.
So I do think that the consequences of changing the
game from not having an input buffer to having 1 completely
changes how we think about everything, everything for
better, for worse. It just changes everything.
There was no counter hit. Also for deep you had reversal

(01:23:38):
DP in street rider 4 meterless. Right.
They wanted to go back to neutral more often, unless you
had a vortex one. Did you know about it?
Yeah, this is different. Very.
Different like there wasn't evena counter hit for getting deep
for DP right? Like if I if you block my DPI
just take a regular combo, I don't take a counter hit like
street rider 5 or punish kind oflike street rider 6 something.

(01:24:00):
Exactly. And people could drop it that
which they often did. So people, you would have to
hedge your bets. Let me go for a real basic baby
combo here just to get guaranteed damage sometimes or
you're God like you're like, youknow what, I'm going to flex on
them right now. And either you get it and you
get a little bit more damage or you don't and they match another
DP and you eat shit right. So just different era, different

(01:24:21):
game. Hard, hard to compare them.
Hard to compare them for sure. But I do think the input buffer
is like the most consequential change we've had so far.
Anyways, I think that's a good place to wrap it up.
Yeah, in the comments, I want tohear the debate.
I feel like this is going to be a good one.
Remember, we're trying to steal man each argument.
Don't think as people are going to be pissed.
I'm already ready for the conference.

(01:24:42):
For me, I'm cooked. Yeah, you're definitely good.
I'm going to be a little bit cooked.
Item's going to be roasted. I think Rob's going to be the
people's champs in in this episode.
For. Sure.
Yeah, we'll see how it pans out.All right, thanks for listening
in. This has been extra trashy.
We're signing off. Peace.
Thank you for making it to the end of another episode of Extra
Trashy. This one was a lot of fun

(01:25:03):
debating with Rob and Idom. Hopefully you enjoyed that.
If you're watching on a video feed on Spotify or YouTube, you
should be seeing a bunch of names scrolling by right now.
These are our Patreon members over at patreon.com/brian under
score F and the show is possibledue to their support.
I'd like to thank personally ourlandfill members SPO, Chuckle,

(01:25:24):
Chuck Hasteris, Kelly Lyles, andSmoking Sea Bass for their
continued support. If you want to support this
show, you can head over to patreon.com/brian under score F
there. We have both free and exclusive
paid content like early access to mainland trash talk episodes,
gaming tutorials and behind the scenes content.
So if you're interested in one support, you can head on over to
that page. But once again, thank you so

(01:25:44):
much for tuning in. Catch you in the next one.
Peace.

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