#197: GLASS TANKS AND TOUGH TENDONS

If you drink enough tiger milk you become invincible .

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Trash cans. Welcome to the Trash Cats, trash
cast. I'm Richard.
I'm Steven and. Today I'm all cranked up on cold
medicine. Definitely some kind of sick but
Stevens going to edit all that part out.

(00:31):
Are you seeing the the Benadryl demons and why would I?
Why would I edit that out? That was a beautiful intro.
That intro was great, but that'sbecause I just cleared my nose
before we turned on recording. But don't worry, I'm going to.
I'm going to need another one here in a little bit.
See, I think what really happened is you were trying to
get out of recording tonight, soyou said, hey, man, I'm a little

(00:56):
sick. And I said I don't, I don't
fucking care. We're recording and now you're
having to commit to the bit and pretend you're sick.
I think that's where I think that's where we're at and we
should both acknowledge it. That's that's also why I laid in
laid on laid in bed and on the couch all day and ate a bunch of
spicy soups and yeah, some some tea with honey.

(01:20):
You committed to the bit your method acting and.
Take taking. I'm taking cold medicine just
for the fun of it. That's just your addiction that
you're. That's that's my my Wednesday
report. Wednesday, Richard.
Your poor mental health in action.
Taking taking night night time, cold meds in the morning just.
So like we find ourselves in thesituation where you're trying to

(01:42):
get out of recording and I wouldlike to say prove it.
I don't think you can prove you're sick.
I don't believe you. I guess you're right.
I mean, if I was actually sick, I wouldn't have showed up at
all. Exactly.
Now imagine. I was really if I was in a bad,
bad way, I wouldn't be here right now.
Exactly. So imagine this is a life and

(02:04):
death scenario. So just just pretend 'cause this
definitely couldn't happen at all.
Remember that? That junkie lady on your street
that almost stabbed you? Yeah.
Well, turns out I know her OK, and I put some money on her
books about a month ago in return for a favor.

(02:28):
And I cashed in my favor tonightand I said, hey, if Ricky
doesn't pass my sick test on this podcast, I am paying her to
come to your home and kill you. OK?
This is life and death. So I would like you to prove
that you're actually sick so youdon't get stabbed or shot by a

(02:51):
crazy lady. What do you got?
Try for one of these. You could present your evidence
to the judge. If you send me pictures of dirty
tissues, that's nothing. That's that's circumstantial at
best. That's that's just a gooner
horn. Yeah, dude, how do I know you
didn't just spit in it? We need bacterial test.

(03:15):
OK, That's a good start. OK.
Here here's what I'm here's whatI'm trying to get is OK.
I was like just I blew my nose when I threw away the last one.
I do have some the the mucus is like a yellowish color.
OK, you could have used food dye.
Put some food dye in my nose. Yeah, or you maybe just had

(03:36):
expired Lube you needed to get rid of.
Some old some old clumping Lube.That's the worst when it it
dries out on the cap and it getsall crust and that's not good.
Yeah, it's like, it's like the first hit of mustard.
You got to make sure you get it off the get the little first bit
out in the trash 1st and then. So like life or death, you

(04:00):
really couldn't prove it, could you?
I, I suppose not. I feel like I I definitely.
My voice is off for sure. No, I think you sound as you
always do. You couldn't even say it with a
straight face. You sound fine man, there's

(04:22):
nothing wrong you. Sound great?
No, it is annoying as fuck. When you're at work and someone
complaints about being sick and they're not very sick, you're
like, like I would go to work more dope sick than you are real
sick most days. Motherfucker, stop whining.
Yeah. I, I, I, I get that too.

(04:43):
I'm also, I've been on the kick of like if you're especially in
food service, like if you're actually sick, I don't.
Want to be here? Because for the potential that
other first of the main leaf andmy thing, like I'm not even like
obviously like foodborne stuff, like you can pass some stuff,
but like if you just have like acold, it's like I'm not

(05:04):
concerned about the food so much.
If you're like washing your hands and whatever and using
gloves and you know keeping yoursnot out of the fucking food,
you'd be fine. It's the other people you're
working with. And if you know one person out,
sick isn't a big deal. But if you know three people are
out, you know for the next 4 days because you came in the
sick. Once it's basic algebra at that

(05:26):
point. Yeah, it's it's, it's bad news.
So I so yesterday, yesterday I had to go to, I had to do my, my
boss's job because he was doing some, some delivery missions.
So I had to do his job, which isa lot more work than it has been

(05:51):
in the past to do my boss's job.I mean, isn't that?
He actually does shit. Isn't that definitionally just
what being an employee is doing your boss's job?
Well, when I say that, I mean doing the things that only he
does on a regular basis. I don't think bosses do that
much, but sure. Typically there you are correct.
I would say normally that is true.

(06:12):
But you got a good, you got a good boss, though.
I have, I have a good one. She actually does shit and it
makes it makes it difficult. We'll give him a, we'll give him
a pass. Yeah, And I was just doing the
kind of the fun part of the job,which is like taking stuff to
our spot at the zoo and making sure they have what they need.
But he he was like, you don't have to do it.

(06:34):
Like usually we go early in the morning where you can drive your
car in and like, you know, deliver stuff that way so you
don't have to like, carry it in with a cart and all that other
shit. Yeah, he was like, you don't got
to go that early in the morning.It's not going to be that much.
You can take a cart in just, youknow, that way you don't have to
like, come in early or whatever.And I was like, all right, cool,

(06:54):
I can do that. So I go down there and I have
this cart full of stuff and it is, it's not like that.
It's a lot, but it's heavy. It's just a lot of heavy shit.
Is it pounds of fruit again? Right.
It's fucking. There are some of that, but
mostly popsicles. OK, gotcha.

(07:15):
So I'm, I'm like cases and casesand cases of popsicles, yeah.
And we, we pack them pretty dense anyways, we, as I'm
carrying them in there, there's like during the open hours you
have to go down like take this ramp down and then a ramp up so

(07:37):
you can go around because they have the train that runs through
or whatever. Yeah, it's typical nonsensical
zoo architecture. It's always stupid as fuck.
Yeah. Yep, of course.
So I have this fucking hand cartwith, I mean, way above the
payload that this hand cart is supposed to be working with,
right? Going down wasn't that big of a

(08:00):
deal. And, you know, you just hold on
and get your, you know, get yourweight behind it and.
Let it drag you. Yeah, exactly.
And then but the way up, of course, that's the one that's
much harder. So because you know, it, I
usually find it easier to kind of like go up backwards with it
when you got a lot of weight. And that way you're kind of

(08:21):
pulling instead of, you know, pushing it up.
And I was, as I was doing that, I somehow I twisted my ankle in
a way that it didn't like and not like a severe injury, but
enough that it was like, oh, that really hurts.
And now I still have to walk around the rest of the zoo with

(08:41):
this card of course, and deliverall this shit.
Real quick, I just want to say motorcycles are so cool.
I just what? They're just so fucking cool.
I just love motorcycles. OK, continue.
Hey, you know, you know, in, in Michigan, there's only like 4
months out of the year maybe that you can ride a motorcycle.

(09:02):
And boy, do they. Yeah, so it's like having a
10,000 LB trophy. How much does a motorcycle weigh
1000 pounds? Maybe.
Maybe not even. Probably not.
What a £400. It's a yeah.
It's like having a £400 trophy that just says I'm a fucking

(09:23):
idiot that you just parked in your house for 3/4 of the year.
It's pretty, you know, I I guessit's, I mean it's a hobby, I
guess maybe, but like it's a probably it's an expensive it
is. Dude, they're like.
It's an addiction like over it. One tier above firefighters.

(09:49):
I think also the the the you know protocol for owning a
motorcycle in the Detroit area is you have to drive it by my
house. Of course.
Preferably between the hours of like, you know?
The 1:00 AM and 3:00. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Now, just to get back to your
story, did the because I know how this game works because we

(10:13):
would use, you know, your hand trucks for a swimming pool
walls. And they're like those things.
I do know how much they weigh and it's a lot.
OK. But yeah, did it do one of those
where it gave your your shoe a flat tire and you corked your
ankle under a wheel? No, not even because it was down
the hill from me. I'm up the hill from it, pulling

(10:36):
it. And I I it was.
What are you twisting on? A Pebble.
I, I don't even know that it wastwisting.
It was more of AI think it was just because I was applying
pressure and my like my foot wasangled down down the hill.
You got I, I don't. Know you got fragile feet.
Apparently I got I got them themweak boy ankles.

(10:57):
I did actually, I did sprain my ankle eat.
I eat my right ankle. I sprained twice last year.
My left I got once and I do havea, what's it called a broken no,
a ligament in my my right ankle from when I was 18.
Those don't grow back. You know why though, right?

(11:18):
Why? Because you're not drinking
enough milk. You ain't got tough, you know
you're. Right, I'm not drinking enough
milk. That is actually true.
How? Are you going to get tough
tendons? Unless you're you're sucking on
cows, you know what I mean? Straight from the straight from
the teeth. That's what I do.
That's why I got tough tendies bro.
You know, sometimes when you don't have cows, you don't have

(11:40):
access to cows, you keep them deer in the backyard.
Or you know what we call a gerbil?
In spring, it's it's dripping season.
You know what we call a gerbil, right?
What's that? A portable cow.
That's how you keep your tenantstough bro, ain't going to catch.

(12:02):
Me keep a germ in your pocket, ain't?
Going to catch me twisting my Yankees at A at the field.
There's so much milk available at a zoo.
There's all kinds of milk available at the zoo.
Every mammal in there makes milk.
Why do you have to people have to pay for sodas and shit?

(12:22):
Why don't they just give you themilk of the animal you're
visiting? That would be way cooler dude.
Here's some tiger milk. Dude, hell yeah.
Tiger milk would be sick. Do you remember the tiger wine?
Yes, I want to try it. It's illegal though, all right.

(12:47):
So you're, you're destroying your body physically, right?
Yeah, so the the the best part is as as was with the fruit,
there is there's a time limit because it's 90° outside.
I forgot I have popsicles. It's Mission Impossible.
You're on the clock once again. Yeah, melting.
It's and it's a lot, it's a lot more drastic this time because

(13:08):
it's not like, oh, they get warmand they get a little soft or
brown or whatever. It's like they get, they get
warm, they melt and they're not good anymore.
So I assume you're taping your ankles up on a hill?
Not even. I'm just going for it.
I'm just dealing with it. I'm in.
I'm in. You laced Jordan's back up and.

(13:28):
Got my my Bistro Crocs on yeah. Dude.
I'm fucking going for it. And after I got that done, I go
back and you know, I'm driving back to the warehouse and like
I'm, I'm feeling it, but it's like, all right, I'm, I'll be
fine. I just got to get through.
Like I got the next two days off.
I'll be good. And as I as I pull back in, I'm

(13:49):
talking to, you know, my other like Co manager there and I'm
like, so like what, like what doyou got working on?
Like what do you think we should, you know, need to get
done today, you know, yada, yada.
And as we're talking, she like kind of pauses real quick and
she was like, I got to sit down.All right, I need to go stay on
the walk in for a minute. So I follow her in there and

(14:09):
she's like, I just got really faint.
All of a sudden. I feel like I'm going to pass
out. And I was like, oh shit, like
that's sucks. Like what?
What can I do for you? Like can I bring you something?
And after talking for a little bit, she starts telling me that
like, she started feeling like allergy stuff a couple of days
ago and kind of shitty last night.

(14:33):
And so eventually, Long story short, you know.
She gave you COVID I. Already talked.
Yeah. The, the Long story short,
because I, I was feeling it before she had said all this
too. Like, I've also been feeling
sick for a few days now. It was just like typical allergy
stuff. But I had already told her that
I was like trying to get out of there early if possible, like,

(14:54):
because we had enough people there, like I didn't need to be
there all day. And after talking with her for a
minute, I was like, just go home.
She was like, I don't want to leave you there to deal with,
you know, closing and all that. And I was like, I'll be fine.
Just go home. Just leave your gun.
And then as she's leaving, I'm like, Oh, no, wait, actually I
don't. I don't.
I'm not ready to do this. Bro, you know what happened

(15:17):
right? What's that?
You got lady tricked. Yeah I know 100% she used her
feminine Wiles to manipulate they're.
So good at. It just fall for it every
goddamn time. It's hard.
Though, and, you know, but she, she ended up, she took a break

(15:38):
to kind of like catch her breathand then went home and.
You suffered for 8 hours. Did it was just, it was so many
like small things that were justlike fully preventable, like
small accidents, stuff got spilled or dropped or someone
made a mess with some other shit.
Or like the we, we had an issue with like the wrapping machine

(16:00):
for a second that was like giving me problems.
And then by the end of the day, like we're, we're looking like,
all right, we're all in the clear.
We just got to go wrap a couple more things.
And then we're out of here And Iget a call from my boss who's on
the road and they're like, Hey, we just got another order for

(16:20):
this for the fucking ballpark. And they need all these, they,
they need these like the, you know, 60 something cases.
And he said, don't worry boss, I'm already at work.
Like they need like 60 somethingcases by this weekend.
And I was like, all right, all right, cool, I'm going to go
check and, you know, whatever I can, we'll make it happen.

(16:42):
Like I'll come in tomorrow if I have to.
And they're like, well, you know, you don't have to do that.
I was like, but I think I do though, because like, that's
just how that goes. If we need it, we need it.
So I, I get off with them and I go and I'm like in the freezer
and I'm counting shit. And we have enough of most of
them. But there is another flavor that
they asked for that we don't make.

(17:03):
We have, I have a rest before. We just haven't made it because
we decided we weren't going to like sell it anywhere this year.
So I was like, OK, I can't just put someone else on that.
Like I got to do that. Remember when Jesse from
Breaking Bad was chained to the the meth lab?

(17:25):
I've actually never seen Breaking Bad all the way
through. OK, well, that's a mistake that
that's a a choice and a mistake that you've made.
But yeah, he gets captured by the cartel and he's essentially
chained to the meth lab. So he can only make meth.
And that's that's what having a job at a popsicle place is like

(17:47):
for you. Some days it feels like that.
But your chain is your phone andyour responsibility.
Yeah, it's my, my, my overwhelming inner sense of
responsibility. Yeah.
Anyways, everything, everything worked out.

(18:07):
Everything worked out great Yesterday.
It just, it would just took, it felt like it took forever to get
there. And then I got home last night
and as I'm sitting kind of sitting on the couch, like
resting, I just started feeling like more and more shitty and I
couldn't breathe. And I woke up in the middle of
the night and I felt shitty. And I, like, I, I woke up at

(18:27):
like 3:00 and I'm actually, I made some ramen.
Yeah. And I put a bunch of pepper
powder in it. Are you going up or going down
now? Are you better or worse?
I it's hard to tell because I'm on a bunch of cold medicine.
Gotcha, so the better are distracting you.
Yeah, it's it's I feel like the symptoms are better, but also I

(18:51):
definitely feel high and loopy. Yeah, because I only I I
exclusively take night time coldmedicine.
Yeah, you got to keep it queasy,you know.
Like what's what's the fucking point if I don't, if it's not
going to make it easier to sleep, if I'm not going to be a
little bit a little bit buzzed while I'm getting through this?
Yeah, Now how's your, your, yourankles?

(19:13):
Are you? I would imagine in your
situation you probably just double dosed your G, your human
growth hormone and you're probably on the mend already.
That was said GHB. You know I.
Would be way funnier, but. I have, you know, actually I
have Wolverine bones. So I just, I just kind of heal

(19:36):
real quickly. That'll do so.
Ankle. Ankle's fine.
Gotcha, good. Put it up last night and I put
ice on it pretty quick. When I got back, it was, it was
all good, yeah. Yeah, Now Speaking of accidents,
I, I think I told you I'm I've been on, you know, when you try

(19:56):
really hard at work. No, when you try like extra hard
and you still do a terrible job.Yeah.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And you're like, this is
bullshit because I should not betrying this hard to begin with.
And for me to be trying to work this hard and not hit the goals

(20:21):
is bullshit. And you, you feel like mentally
beaten or like. Yeah, that's straight up the
days when I've gone home from work early where I'm like, hey,
I've been cranking on this for like 2 1/2 hours and I'm just,
I'm moving slow. I've tried coffee.
I just feel like shit. I am not like it's, it's not

(20:44):
worth like the effort right now for me to be here doing this.
I'm it's like I've just made, it's making me want to hurt
myself. It sucks.
Yeah, so that's how my last two days have been.
And yesterday I was, I'm like, Ihave 15 minutes left at work,
right? And I know if I don't finish the

(21:09):
last 15 minutes, I it's going todrive me nuts, right?
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I, I get a call from my neighbor, the old lady up the
hill. And I've, I've talked about her
a little bit, but I also don't want to like, I don't know, blow

(21:30):
her up, whatever. But she's kind of a crazy old
bat. And for years, for like the last
four years, she has done taken my trash cans in every week and
she gives me stacks and stacks of classical and jazz and

(21:58):
instrumental and opera, all these C DS because her partner
is a was a professional music reviewer person.
So she's been an incredibly gracious to me, right.

(22:19):
And I, I always would try to stop her from doing my cans
because I'm afraid she's going to fall.
So her and her husband are both like 85 years old.
They both have cancer and they both have bone disorder
disorders and are like struggling right?

(22:45):
But right. You know, she's strong willed.
I I can't tell her what to do. She's she, you know, she does
what she wants. She's.
Like I tried to, I tried to stopher from, you know, mowing my
lawn and she's bringing, taking my trash out for me and cleaning
my my gutters out. But she just she insists.

(23:06):
She's like a glass tank, you know, Where like, you can't.
You can't really get in her way unless you're willing to break
her, because you know what I mean.
But there is a, there's the argument also of like there's a
little bit of that is like goes a long way if they're not
getting out of the house much also, yeah, like having

(23:26):
something to do like that on a regular.
That's what chases me, yeah. It's it's not it's, it's good.
But I'm always like worried. But over the last like year,
I've become more she's, we've become more ingrained in each
other's lives because she's not doing as well now, which means

(23:50):
I'm going over there, I'm takingher cans in whichever.
I don't mind really. And I've helped do some other
stuff around their house or whatever.
But I'm like 15 minutes from being off work and I get a call
and she says, hey, I guess you didn't read my emails.

(24:11):
And I'm like, I don't, she sendsme 10 emails a day some days.
So I'm like, I'm at work. She knows I'm at work.
No, I didn't see the emails. She's like, hey, my partner fell
and I'm like, what? What do you mean?
And I'm like, is this an emergency?
And she says no, no, no, it's not.

(24:31):
And I'm like, Oh my God, I I don't know when she sent the
emails. I don't know if this is a fall
where like they've been on the floor two days, 20 minutes an
hour. If things are broken or, you
know, some old people, it's likethey fall and it's, it's really
like just like a turtle thing. They just are struggling to get
up, but they're not injured at all.

(24:53):
And I'm like, yeah, hey, is thisan emergency?
Do we need to call 9 O1? Should I run over?
Can I finish work? Like what's the sitrep here?
She's like just come over in a few minutes and I, I'm like
trying to get work done. I had to skip some shit and run
out the door, right? Right.
I've really only like heard their partner's voice from like

(25:16):
across the room or whatever. I don't really know them, so
it's a bit uncomfortable or whatever, but I get there and
I'm not like making fun of them at all.
I understand we get old, our bodies betray us and they had
medical conditions that are a part of this equation but they

(25:37):
weigh over £300, they have bone disorders and are 80 plus with
cancer and they're on the floor,they're in pain but it's not
like a life or death emergency. But right, I'm trying to figure
out how I get this person back in their bed because they are

(26:00):
bed bound. The the husband, the wife is the
one I talked to normally and she's she's the one that did her
cans is running around, but she like she's going up and down
these steps with cats dipping through her legs.
She's got a a cane. And I don't think I've ever seen
someone go up or down stairs that looks more likely that they

(26:23):
would fall than this woman, you know, like she is just too old
to have to do these things anymore, you know, but I, I, who
am I to tell her what you can and can't do?
But then the next hour of the day is trying to help this
person into bed. And it dude, I was just so it

(26:46):
was so nerve wracking because I'm trying to like get leverage
on a, a bigger person, but I don't, I don't want to touch
them inappropriately because I don't know them.
Like I don't know what they'd beoffended by or not.
I'm worried to use too much force.
Like they were very kind and grateful about, but I I didn't

(27:09):
want to. Like there was like, you know,
when you're trying to move something difficult, like even a
couch, it's like tempers flare, right?
Especially. Yeah, of course.
When you're worried about like hey, am I going to break or
dislocate their shoulder if I pull you?
Know like 100% yeah. I'm, I'm like, I don't know
their medical condition enough to know if we can do this or if

(27:33):
I'm going to try to help them and like break something, right?
But we did eventually figured itout, but I feel like it's a
temporary fix where they're going to need.
Of course. More and more help and it
doesn't seem like their kids arein their life much or like so I

(27:54):
I was, you know, we were talkingon the phone last night.
I found this. Apparently my mom has done
volunteer stuff with him, but it's the Council of the Aging,
which is a crazy name. That's like a Tolkien.
Yeah, out of the Lord of the Rings, Like Frodo the.
Council. Hit the ring we'll.

(28:14):
Bring this before the Council. Yeah, to see if we can get
somebody over there 'cause it's man, it's just, it's like
pretty, I've said it before withmedical coding stuff, it's just
pretty amazing what we can endure and adapt to and survive,

(28:37):
but also simultaneously be so fragile.
Yeah, it's. I mean, especially when it's a.
What's the analogy? Is the, the frog and boiling
water thing of like, yeah, you, if you slowly increase the
temperature, like they don't realize that it's getting like

(28:59):
to, you know, to a boiling pointbecause they don't, they adapt
so quickly to it that they, they're OK until suddenly
they're not. But the, the, the, that idea of,
you know, you're, the things arekind of going downhill around
you. It's like a little bit out of
time. And then suddenly it's 20 years

(29:23):
later and you're, you know, bed bound and like, are your
partner's bed bound and like, you can't like, address these
things anymore because you're not, you know, young and
sprightly enough yourself to help lift them up and, and
whatever. So yeah, it's, it's terrifying

(29:44):
how that kind of happens. It's like it's not a problem
until it's a problem. Yeah.
Easy to kind of let that, let itgo to the wayside until it's
like very suddenly someone else comes in with a different
perspective and it's like, hey, actually this is all fucked.
Yeah, God, you just reminded me of the sorry spaced a little

(30:10):
bit. But you know, the the frog
boiling is you know, we use thatterm for like you can't, you
can't see when the change is happening.
Well, there's a better way to put it and there's AI.
Forget the the name of the theory in philosophy, but is do

(30:33):
you consider 1 grain of sand to be a pile of sand?
Right. Yeah, It's like how many?
How many more? How many times do I have to put
1 grain on top of this to make it a pile?
Yeah, and it with the frog boiling, it's like, do you know
when it starts? It's like there's no definite
way to know when, but it's to what degree.

(30:56):
And it, it kind of reminded me of Loki's wager.
Where do you remember this by chance?
Not exactly. Remind me?
OK it's from some dumb Norse pros right?
I hate Norse shit. I hate, you know, the, the

(31:20):
welder guys, they always have the the hammer necklaces we've
talked about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What? What is the hammer necklace?
Is that from? That's not Norse, is it?
It's the. Yeah, that's that's like the
meolonier. Yeah, the guys that love like
Viking aesthetic and like Celticshit.

(31:42):
Oh man, yeah I hate all that shit.
But Loki's wager is from the Norse trickster God Loki.
OK, this is Loki's wager. Loki made a bet with the dwarf
broker in which he wagered his head and Loki lost.

(32:04):
When the dwarf came to collect, Loki stated that he would
relinquish his head, but noted that Boker was not entitled to
any part of Loki's neck cause the wager was only for his head.
After discussion on the matter, while parts of Loki clearly
belong to the head or the neck, neither side could agree exactly

(32:28):
where 1 ended and the other began.
Loki therefore kept his head indefinitely.
I don't know, it just kind of reminded me of that.
There there's, there's a different name for it, but
there's one example people go toin philosophy a lot about a boat
where how many boards of a boat do you have to change before

(32:51):
it's a different boat? Have you, have you thought about
that one any bit? Because.
Yeah, the the ship Ship of Theseus.
Is that what it is? Yeah.
So the idea of like, OK, so you have to you, you replace pieces
of the ship piece by piece. Is that is that still the same
ship? And then what the thing I didn't

(33:13):
consider that I heard the, the extension of that is if you took
all of the original pieces that you removed from the first ship
and then use those pieces to build a ship, then.
And if you were to say like though the first one is still
that ship, then what is the second one?
You now have two of the same ship, but they're obviously not

(33:36):
the same. You lost very.
But I I know, I know the type ofarguments you're referring to.
I heard two different answers toit that I thought were kind of
interesting, but the fuck where was I gonna go with this?
The sorry, give me one SEC it's.Parables all the way down.

(34:00):
Have you heard the term turtles all the way down?
I think I've heard you say that before, yes.
I've never used it before, this was the first time I just took
it out of the garage I've heard.Definitely, I've definitely,
absolutely heard someone else say.
It I've never, I don't, I don't know what it refers to, but I
like it. That's turtles all the way down.

(34:23):
Though I think the thing I've heard it, it's, it's from what I
understand, it's like the old map of the universe is like a,
the world on the turtle on a turtle's back.
It's like, but what's the turtlestanding on?
It's like it's another turtle. It's turtles all the way down.

(34:44):
And that that was my understanding of it.
If that's right, that's that's cool.
But I I remembered. So when we talk about the, you
know, how many boards of a ship do you have to change?
How many pieces of sand, you know, where the frog, when did
it start boiling? When we talk about these things,

(35:05):
we're almost especially the ship, but we're kind of talking
about the true concepts of what a thing means, right?
Like what is a boat? What is a pile?
The frog, I guess is a little different, but I feel like
there's something there. And then because we're we're

(35:29):
kind of the meta of the podcast right now is we're not stepping
away from politics, but we want to get back into some of the
things we're probably more passionate about, but philosophy
and hardship. But the my point with it was is
like these things are like Plato's cave allegory, like what

(35:55):
is a form? What is a chair?
What is a chair? I do have a a little a little
experiment. Do you want to try?
This is a quick one, but it's kind of fun.
Sure. You have to actually close your
eyes. OK.
I'll walk you through it. It's pretty short.

(36:16):
All right. close your eyes. It's nice and cozy.
You're exploring the dark space of your mind, right?
OK. I want you to picture an apple,
right? You see it?
I do. Are you able to rotate it?

(36:36):
Yes. Does that come naturally?
Yes. Can you change its color?
Yes. All right, play with that for a
moment. Now take that apple and replace
it with another apple of a different color.

(36:57):
OK. Now I want you to note, pretend
you're in Photoshop and you're looking at your canvas, right?
That kind of bird's eye view of where this the true form of this
second apple is in relation to the first apple.
Right now delete the apples. In that same space of your mind,

(37:24):
put an elephant. OK.
You see it? I do, yes.
And you can compare it to the previous apples like.
Yes. OK, now you can open your eyes.
OK. What was the size of the apple

(37:44):
in comparison to the size of theelephant?
And we're talking about scale. Small, actually, in my, in my
head, I pictured it as in like the apples were like arm's
length out in front of me. And then when I replaced it with
an elephant, the elephant was maybe a little bit beyond an

(38:06):
arm's length out in front of me,but it was still very close.
So I kind of backed out a littlebit to to see the whole
elephant. That's interesting.
I don't, I don't know what that means to be honest.
So. Was I supposed to say they were
the same? Yeah, apparently most people see

(38:28):
when they picture the idea, the form Plato's for what is the the
substance of what a thing is. When they tend to picture it in
their mind, things tend to be atthe same scale.
So they see the apple and the elephant at the same size.
We're like relative when I when I did this, not knowing what it

(38:51):
was. Yet when I do this, it's like a
I'm looking into a black room and whatever object I picture
fits inside of the same box and I can manipulate it however I
want. And if I chose to like enlarge
the elephant or like play with scale and size perspective, I

(39:11):
can. But when I first initially
picture them, they tend to be the same size and I.
If I if I think if I wasn't already picturing an apple, I
think I would do that. I think because I was already
focusing on an apple in that space, I've kind I through

(39:33):
through your own direction. I kind of, you know, created a
space. I was, I didn't know whether to
say that part. I didn't know if that would make
it more likely or less likely. I, I kind of was like
bullshitting through it, you know what I mean?
I. Mean that's that's an yeah
that's an interesting part of itbut it's like I yeah I I kind of
I made a space and then and thenyou know the apple being there

(39:57):
I've by reference it's like obviously a an elephant is much
bigger so like the first thing Isaw when.
I think I thought of the. Elephant was like like literally
just like the the kind of the side of an elephant was like
it's like under its belly and the legs.
And then like as I backed up, I could see the whole thing.

(40:18):
But if I like now, if I just think of an elephant, a picture,
an elephant, I can see the wholething immediately.
You should run it. Within the same frame.
On like your niece or somebody who's like artistically inclined
because I think maybe by mentioning the space genes
express themselves in environment by, you know,

(40:40):
addressing the environment, the ideas expressed in.
I wonder if maybe that size perspective kind of like spoils
the the part that our mind mighttend to do on its own of not
putting it in a space. If is it important to do the

(41:01):
apple first or would it make any?
Would it ruin the experiment if I did?
I don't know elephant. 1st. I have no idea.
I know there I'm pretty sure this was based off a real study,
but I I just. I'm recalling it.
I don't remember what the specifics of it were, but
apparently most people tend to visualize the form of something

(41:24):
in their mind's eye as like equivalent sizes where like
there might be other things people do or like other factors,
but we tend to like visualize the idea of something more than
the specifics. Like when you said you could
change the apple or rotate it and stuff.
For many people that aren't artistically inclined, they

(41:48):
can't do that part of it. Like if I asked my dad to
picture an apple like rotating, he just could not do that.
His like visual imagination is not there.
And I think I think artistic people tend to be able to have a
lot more like creative freedom in those spaces.

(42:10):
But I think in general, my understanding was a lot of
people picture the form of something rather than the
specific. Almost like when you look at how
art AIS work, like a diffusion map where it's gathering and
clumping areas of noise maps to to transform into a picture or a

(42:34):
piece of art or whatever. There's like that element of
random fuzziness and I, I feel like our mind does some of that
too, where you might be seen until you focus on the
characteristics, the specifics of the form of the apple of the
elephant. It tends to be very fuzzy, but

(42:55):
you feel like you're seeing everything because you're
identifying with the the conceptyou associate with the apple of
the elephant. Yeah, I, I think, I think the,
the switching, it's actually, it's interesting that because
you said actually when you said can you change the color of the

(43:15):
apple, I realized that what I, what I was doing wasn't even
just changing the color of the first apple.
I was because like Red deliciousare usually different shape than
like a Granny Smith or a honey honey crisp apple.
They're they're similar enough, but they are typically like
honey crisp are usually like a little more ovular and round.

(43:39):
The the red delicious are usually a little taller.
Granny Smith is actually more typically like the apple shape
that most people think of because it's and like I was
actually swapping them in with different different shapes of
apples when I was because it didn't look right that make the
the original, you know, yeah, apple like a different color.

(44:04):
I just it made more sense to. But even that, that's almost a
perfect example of it working ina different way.
Because when I when I say the the green apple instead of the
red, like to change the color, your mind didn't want to just
change the form of the first apple because that would be a

(44:26):
different apple in your mind. So it makes it new.
That's cool. I like that.
Yeah, there. I feel like I listened to some
professor talk the other day andit was very, very cheesy.
It was like, it was like a YouTube short or some bullshit.
But he, he had an argument that for any problem you had in life,

(44:52):
you could 100% solve rate it by spending 30 minutes in a dark
room. And he said it very
compellingly. But but I think there, there's a
lot to that of, you know, it's, it's just just like meditation,

(45:14):
like many people just don't evergive themselves that time in
space. And we've talked about that in
relation like therapy and shit like having the to know you have
a problem, but to have like the trust and self and like to give
yourself the space to like work through it without the pressures

(45:35):
of the outside world and just allow your mind to find answers.
I think it's a a beautiful thingthat.
I 100% agree with that there. There's, you know, even it's not
exactly the same, but just the idea of like what therapies help
me with so much is just making me feel like I had the tools to

(45:59):
do something about like even if it's like there could be some
what's the word the when they use drugs that aren't actually
drugs, placebo, placebo. Yeah, there.
There could absolutely be some placebo effect with some of it,
but like they're having just knowing that I have a plan of

(46:25):
action to do something makes it a lot easier.
And it's like very much a mind over matter of solving A prop.
Like it doesn't solve the problem per SE, but it puts me
in a position where I feel like I can.
It kind of enables the power to do so.
So like by removing the other pressures on yourself, like

(46:50):
putting yourself in a space where you feel like, OK, I'm
going to buckle down and focus on this without any exterior
stimulus. I can absolutely see like just
that. Getting yourself, if you can get
yourself into that mind frame tobegin with, like you're on the
right path or, you know, you canalways do the thing that you

(47:13):
hear people say, like, oh, this person who was going to, you
know, try to commit suicide and they jumped off a bridge, but
they didn't. There's stories of people that
did that and then they come to afterward and they're like, I
realized halfway down that the things that I was so worried

(47:33):
about before weren't that big ofa deal and like, I could have
solved it. And, you know, like halfway
through my fall, I realized thiswas like, this was a mistake and
it wasn't worth it. You know you can try that method
and then. I hate those.
Maybe maybe you fix all your problems on your own.

(47:54):
Don't. Do you not find those stories
particularly upsetting? Oh no, it's terrible.
I, I feel like there's such tremendous weakness in that.
I'm not saying I don't have empathy for the position at all,
but for, for it to take a failedattempt for that to somehow

(48:19):
spark a change in mind. I don't how can those two things
be congruent? You either should have wanted it
to succeed or you or you shouldn't have done it.
I understand. Like it's just that it's the

(48:39):
extreme version of the coin flipthing, right?
Of like you don't know if if you're stuck between two things,
you don't really know. It's it's easiest to this to
decide the thing you want after you've already flipped the coin.
I just that coin's in the air. You know immediately what you
want to land on. But I feel like it if you

(49:00):
survive and the first thing you do when you're, you've regained
consciousness or control, if it is not immediately try again.
I don't know how you could ever trust that person's judgement on
anything where, and I'm not saying I, I like think they're

(49:23):
bad or like I, I don't care, like why they were suffering or
whatever. But like the, the guy I know
that I think I saw him yesterday, not not yesterday,
like two, 2-3 days ago. The guy I've been writing about
with the liver failure, I think I saw him and I couldn't pull
over like, but I was on the highway type shit and I, I think

(49:47):
I saw him and I think it probably wasn't him.
But it, you know, when you see someone that you love or or like
that you thought was them, it, it triggers it.
It's the it's the apple. You saw the form of them and
exactly triggered your brain exactly as if you saw them.

(50:09):
And then you have to like deal with like the recoil of like,
oh, that was them. Oh, that wasn't them.
They're not alive. It's disappointing.
Or it was pleasant or whatever that recoil is.
I thought I saw them. I don't think it was him though.
I think he's probably dead. But the he tried to kill

(50:33):
himself, woke up at the hospitaland immediately shot up in the
hospital again. Tried to kill himself.
They thought they searched him and found all his shit.
He did it again after they revived him and the dude even
had the foresight to have ADNR where he later had a lawsuit

(50:57):
against the hospital for reviving him and after he
finally left the hospital he tried overdosing again.
It's like that. I trust that person like I
don't. I, I, I get what you, I get what
you mean. I get what you mean by that.
I, I'm, I feel it difficult for me to say that not going that

(51:22):
route is, is a weakness. I'm not I, I just, I don't know
that that's the right verb that I would want to use for that.
It's definitely because it's theright word.
Only the only because it's not. It's not nice, but definitely.
No, you don't commit suicide only because it's, it's, it's

(51:46):
not going to be the same for every person.
And I, I, I feel like there is room within that to I, I don't
know, I, I just, I, I don't wantto put that cat.
I'm not, I'm not willing to put that label on that yet.
I get struck 100% understand where you are coming from

(52:08):
though. I absolutely I do get that.
Can I, Can I? I don't know how we're doing on
time. I Can I.
We are way over our projection. OK, can I address this and we
can get the fuck out? Yeah sure.
Here, here's my problem. This is like a a Nietzschean
language issue and I think it isan issue in modern mental health

(52:34):
care. I think we have a bigger issue
than people realize with couching language for empathetic
and good reason. Where we don't want to say a
suicidal person is lost or weak or things such as that.

(52:59):
Nature like addicts mentally opiate like we don't want to
call them weak or lost as a generality because there's so
many extenuating circumstances where I envision all the all the
things the loser Republicans will like call snowflake shit,
which is like its own equal if not more brain dead like cruel

(53:24):
version of it where like yeah, Iat least can appreciate the
empathetic version a bit more. But I think there's an issue of
like, it is OK to be weak and admitting that is like a huge
part of becoming strong. And I, I think that's like a,

(53:45):
that's like a big part of recovery and like addiction
stuff. And I think in mental health
stuff, it kind of, there's a lotof stigma.
It didn't used to be that way, but I think there's a lot of
stigma to that now where you just don't want to call people
that because it's not nice or not apathetic or enough or can

(54:07):
seem cruel. And I, I, I think, I think it's
a problem that we have allowed it to seem cruel because the I,
everyone. I don't disagree with that.
Yeah, and I, I, I don't necessarily think you do.
I just think there's like a there's a way in which I think

(54:29):
we can embrace weakness and being lost that allows us a
better, better routes to being strong or complacent or
whatever. But like the the person who
tries to kill themselves and then immediately like figured

(54:52):
some shit out on the way down, Idon't trust that they figured
anything out at all. Yeah, where?
I'm not saying that that there'snot like paths to strength and
healthiness and happiness, but there's nothing in that fall
down that should have offered anything.

(55:15):
The the only, yeah, the only thing I I could see being
beneficial in that of is recognizing that like, oh, I
could have, you know, reprioritize things like the
like, even if it's like this doesn't make the problems, those
problems go away, but I can makeit so that they're not a
priority to me. I guess.

(55:37):
Or I can make it so that's not something that I concerned
myself with. I I think.
And if you go through the motions of like if you go
through the motions of trying tocommit suicide before you make
before you recognize that as an option or recognize alternatives
to it. I I definitely get that in the

(56:02):
way of like, OK, you did like you didn't try hard enough and
like you, you took the easy route out in a, you know, you
thought this was the only way togo was to, was to just, you
know, kill yourself. And, and then by doing so,
depriving the other people around you who do care about

(56:23):
you, do what you hear depriving them of, you know, having you
there. The idea of you're, you're,
you're on halfway down and then you're not finding the solutions
to those problems. There's nothing there that's
giving you the things, the toolsto which to fix the problems

(56:45):
that exist other than you just. Change the perspective.
It does change a perspective andthen there will changes after,
right? But I, I think, I, I think maybe
you're bringing me around to a more accurate position, which
would be, I think maybe I take more issue with the instant

(57:06):
regret where I, I don't like when people and you see it all
the fucking time in a A or NA like addicts where they get
sober for a week and they think they solved everything or they
find God and they're completely a different person in like a
week. And then you're like.
OK, I went to church on Sunday. Yeah, I'm, I'm healed now.

(57:29):
Yeah, wait two weeks and we'll see how fucking stupid you are
then. But it's more the the, the
instant perspective switch that I'm far more skeptical of where
it's like, yeah, I guess if you have a change of perspective and
thus your will when you wake up after being recovered from the

(57:49):
river or whatever, that's probably good.
But there are there are no true solutions there where whatever
change you had is a trick where you still have if you're if the
acknowledgement of weakness or being lost is not there still

(58:12):
and you just perspective snap out of that, you've missed the
parts that will help you. Does that make?
Sense there, there has to be there has to be practice
involved in it's a in a in a newdiscipline.
We're like the people. It's like re.
Prioritizing. Yeah, want to live and I saw my
whole life last rock. It's like, yo, then I don't know

(58:34):
how you figured out anything. There's no shot like you're.
I feel like you'd be in a way more vulnerable position than.
I, I, I definitely, I, I definitely get that of like,
even if the perspective switchesentirely, I mean, like, no doubt
for sure, like trauma, you know,brings growth, trauma brings it.

(58:59):
Can. Change it.
Can. Right.
It can, yes. OK, Yeah, you're right.
It brings change. I think is is fair because it
doesn't have to. Probably agree, but I have to
think more I think. I think it it it whether it's
good or bad. But it also can.

(59:20):
There is. Things too, where I feel like
there's. Sure.
There might be a bigger new ones.
But that that would be a change.Potentially, I don't know.
I think that, yeah, I think thatit's, it's alters perspective.
I think especially something as sudden like that, you know,

(59:45):
maybe it's something that, you know, whether you thought it all
the way through or not, you know, you don't know what it's
feels like until you do it. And then, you know, you wake up
in the hospital and half your bones are broken.
That's what always. Scares me, but you have you
opened your eyes again when you didn't think you would.

(01:00:07):
That's always an odd feeling. Waking up in the hospital with
half your bones broken. I've never had the bones broken,
but waking up when you didn't think you're.
When you didn't think you would.Yeah, that's always rough.
You're like oh fuck, I have to refigure out my life, which I
guess is kind of the same thing.Oh damn it, they're going to

(01:00:28):
make me go to rehab again. Dude, fuck, that's such a bad
feeling. And they took all the drugs out
of the house. What the fuck?
Yeah, I feel like I could, I could, I could be flexible, but
I think some of I think some of my intuitions about, well, it's

(01:00:53):
more than the intuitions becauseI, I've not that I know shit
very well, but I feel like I've read a lot about like strength
with the the ideas of weakness and strength because I, I, it
matters a lot to me because I, Ifeel like I spent most of my
life being very, very weak and Idon't feel like I'm where I want

(01:01:16):
to be, but I very much feel thatI I've like very tried very hard
to continue evolving to be stronger.
Whatever. Like there are last episode, you
know, it was me mean or whatever, but that the honorable

(01:01:36):
mention that song 8.6 blackout. I truly do like that song and
there are parts of it I don't I don't love to be fair, but the I
joked about the last lyrics of the of the song being beautiful,
but they truly are to me. The to hear someone else scream

(01:01:56):
them so passionately is genuinely moving to me.
But the I think the last two lines are like I am free.
I am God and it's like I, I justfucking love that shit.
Like you said, the being willingness to, to enter the,
the quietness of self and like trust you can figure shit out.

(01:02:20):
I, I feel like that's, that's everything.
And I, I feel like there are so many things I'm like weak or bad
at, but I, I truly do believe with enough time, which I know
we don't have and is limited, but with enough time, I trust
myself to figure out anything. Like I, I will build fucking

(01:02:44):
pyramids if I have the time, youknow what I mean?
Like, I know, yeah, I can do shit.
And I know realistically, I might not have that time or
opportunity to do even most of the things I want, but I I do
trust myself, Dylan, to be able to navigate that shit, whatever
it is. You know, I don't know, I don't

(01:03:07):
know where I'm going with that, but I what one of my buddies.
It's all motivational and it's all here on the trash catch
trash cast. One of my buddies recently
agreed they'd, I just don't wantto say who, but somebody we know
I care about very, very much. They, they expressed some
interest in reading the Satanic Bible and I think I want to read

(01:03:27):
through it with them. And I, I feel like that'd be
cool because I end up rereading it like every five years.
And each time I do, I feel like more and more of it is like
goofy trash. But the the important parts
about it are become that much more important as well.
I, I, I think it's, that's a, it's a funny evolution with that

(01:03:49):
one because very much so. I feel like the first time
anyone picks that up, it's because they're like, oh, this
is edgy and people are afraid ofthis book.
Yeah. There's something powerful and
evil about it. And and then you start reading
it and you, you know, you get through the first couple parts
of it and you're like, all right, this is I can I feel

(01:04:09):
this. I vibe with this.
And like, this is this makes me feel more like animal and, and
real. And then it gets into like the
magic and the religious part of it and you're like.
Fucking nerds. And telling me not to take a
shower. Go fuck yourself sometimes.
I need to take sometimes. I ever think shower that's.

(01:04:29):
Funny, there's there's a whole thing about.
I already know masking. You're bracing yourself.
Yeah, fuck. Yeah, fucked.
But then you have to balance it with pride and take a shower
every now and again. But you should have the
willingness to allow yourself tobe your most true son.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro I love it though it's so fun
I feel like it's. Like do it, but don't do it but

(01:04:51):
do it. Yeah, don't do it.
But I love those contradictions and philosophy like I, I think
that's part of the reason I likeso much Nietzsche, because so
much that he says contradicts and it allows you to like pull
what you want or want it to be or what you need when you want

(01:05:11):
it. Like there.
I I like those that duality of of thought to to explore what
not not necessarily what is mosttrue, but what you want to be
the most true, to become your true.
Or to become your true Yeah, let's, let's bookend it on that.

(01:05:35):
Yeah. Let me give the people what
they've been waiting for a year though.
Do it. Damn dude that's a call back
bro. That's what they give us the big
bucks for. All right.
Yep, they all just came a littlebit.
Just just a little bit. Thanks again for listening,

(01:05:58):
everyone. Thank you to Approaching Human
for the use of his music. Geola.
His mucus you can find it on. His Approaching Human for the
use of his mucus. You can find his work on
SoundCloud and Approaching Dash Human.
Thanks John. If you're super bored, you can
check out my Trashy art in its form on Instagram at Skysix

(01:06:20):
SKYCACX. We have a Facebook that once a
week I'll repost a meme and we have 1010 reviews on Spotify now
if you want to be lucky number 11, feel free.
And aside from that, we just appreciate you guys sticking

(01:06:43):
around. Hope we're a nice distraction or
something you can enjoy to hate.So, you know, we everyone has to
serve a purpose and you know ourpurpose can be multifunctional.
And if if you jump off a bridge,just fucking finish the job, OK?
Finish the job or or if you don't.

(01:07:05):
Slowly change your mind. Call us and call us and be on
the podcast. That would be pretty sick.
Hell yeah, that's going to be. All for us today.
Stay classy, eat trashy. Go fast, eat trash.

(01:08:14):
Music.