September 19, 2024 • 76 mins
Do you have any questions, any comments about the episode? Jimanekia would love to hear from you!
What happens when a scholar, storyteller, and believer navigates the multifaceted challenges of life and academia? This week, we sit down with the inspiring Dr. Tykeia Nicole, co-host of the Get and Grown podcast, to uncover her extraordinary journey. As a daughter, sister, and Black woman, Dr. Tykeia shares her heartfelt experiences and insights on balancing personal growth with professional demands. From early influences that sparked her curiosity to the invaluable lessons learned from navigating academia as a Black woman, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and resilience.
Dr. Tykeia opens up about the profound impact of grief, sharing her deeply personal experience of losing her brother just days before a major milestone. Her story highlights the unpredictable nature of grief and the essential role of community support during such tumultuous times. We explore how grief intertwines with other life events, leading to a broader discussion on mental health, emotional well-being, and the importance of giving oneself grace. This conversation serves as a poignant reminder that amidst life's chaos, prioritizing self-care and emotional expression is not just beneficial, but necessary for healing and growth.
In our final segment, Dr. Tykeia delves into the journey of unlearning societal expectations and reclaiming personal identity. She provides candid anecdotes about the challenges of shedding ingrained roles and the liberating experience of embracing one's true self. From unlearning the need for external validation to discovering the joy of self-acceptance and self-soothing strategies, this episode offers practical advice for anyone looking to transform their life. Tune in for a deeply moving and insightful conversation with Dr. Tykeia, filled with actionable takeaways on navigating life's twists and turns with grace and authenticity.
Thank you all for listening. Set a boundary with yourself this week, set a boundary with someone else. If someone else does not respect that boundary. LET THEM LOOSE YOU! Stay hydrated internally and externally. We do not have an ashy family.
IG: @The_Trauma_Within
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thetraumawithin
Jimanekia Ig: @Jimanekia
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
The conversation today is something that I am
super excited that I got to have.
It is the start of half of apodcast that we all love, so let
me introduce you to Takiyah NRobinson, phd baby, aka Dr Kiyah
, co-host of the Get and Grownpodcast on the Loudspeakers
Network, a show by for and aboutBlack women and men who are
(00:46):
negotiating the changes andchallenges of the worst hood
adulthood.
Dr Kia and her co-host, chefJade Jade of all, jades Ferretti
have grown the Get Growncommunity of listeners to
include over 28 million peoplesince 2017.
As a scholar of change andtransformation and a storyteller
, ta'kia brings her personalexperience and professional
(01:07):
expertise to conversations aboutthe transitions, triumphs,
trials, twists and turns ofadulting.
Practical tools that illuminatethe processes of how
organizations and the peoplethat they are compromised of
learn, function, change andtransform to serve all
(01:30):
priorities and stakeholders withexcellence and equity.
Y'all buckle up.
We talked, we laughed, we cried, we did it.
So, y'all, we got Dr KiaFabulous.
I'm excited for thisconversation.
I love having this podcastbecause I think that we learn
(01:53):
from conversations.
I think we learn from otherpeople's stories, and this leads
me to my first question, whichmakes people cringe, which makes
me happy who are you?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh, that is a very cringe worthy question, um, but
(02:55):
uh, I would try my best toanswer it.
Um, my name is T'Kia, myfriends call me Kia, and I see
myself in a lot of differentways, but, first and foremost, I
am a daughter, I am a sister,I'm a Black woman, I am a
believer, I am a scholar, I am astoryteller and I live in the
pursuit of all things fabulous,but I see myself as a lifelong
learner who is committed tosharing lessons that we learn
and translating scholarship intopractice.
What are the things that helpus to be better and to operate
in purpose?
I want to be fruitful and Iwant to live a life that will
(03:22):
make my mother and my brotherproud.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I love that.
That was so deep.
How do we meet?
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
We met through when you graced us at the kitchen
table on my podcast, which wasGetting Grown, and we talked to
you about your work as a traumaspecialist.
So I was introduced to youthrough Jade and XD and a lot of
(03:56):
other people that I care abouta great deal.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I love that.
Talk about me behind my back ifit's good.
Oh, it was good.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
What does trauma mean to you that interrupts our
state of homeostasis and thatcould sort of range in sort of
(04:34):
size and the degree of intensity, but anything that disturbs
sort of our state of equilibriumand normativity and our peace
in appreciable and substantialways.
So for a long time I thought oftrauma, as you know, just major
(04:55):
major events or drastic changes.
But I'm coming to realize thatthere are smaller jabs that
accumulate over time that alsocan have a traumatic impact on
(05:17):
who we are for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
They add up, they add up.
So I always like to ask myguests, like what do they want
to talk about?
And all the things.
And everyone was like wealready know what you need to
talk to her about.
Education and grief is about togo down and I said okay, you
know what?
That's what I like to talk about.
So this is fabulous.
I'm a roots girl and so when Isay that is, I think it's really
(05:43):
important to know where we comefrom and how we got here, cause
we didn't just show up at thesemagical ladies.
We were little girls and youknow we went through things, so
who were you before we got thatdoctor in?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
front of you.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
What did you want to be when you grew up?
Who were you?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, oddly enough, um, I'm working very hard to be
who I wanted to be when I was alittle girl.
But little Takiyah was curiousand recognized pretty early that
she is able to adapt to herconditions when she has some
(06:25):
sense of understanding.
And so she's always asked a lotof questions.
She's always wanted to gainunderstanding, to get clarity.
What's happening, why is ithappening, where are we going,
how are we going to get there?
Like these are the kind, that'sthe kind of little girl I've
always been, and my momcharacterized that as nosy.
(06:46):
But in my, you know, constantevolution, you know, at my great
big age, I have come to reframethat as a genuine, earnest
curiosity.
I am at peace when I haveunderstanding, and so when I can
(07:07):
process and gain understandingby any means, I feel most like
myself.
And so little Takiyah alwaysknew and I was talking to one of
my friends about this recentlyas we sort of process in
different phases of our livesand who we are, and I was never
(07:29):
the little girl that dreamedabout, you know, prince Charming
or, you know, a big churchwedding.
You know, I kind of thoughtthat those things sort of would
happen, because in my mind theyjust happened naturally or
automatically for most adults.
But I was the little girl thatdreamed about being a doctor.
(07:50):
I always wanted to be reallysmart and when I was a young
girl my parents divorced and Itook that very hard, and so my
mom.
Actually, I spoke to a childpsychologist I was probably nine
or 10, but I remember him.
It was a Black man in Harlemand he drove a green Lexus and
(08:15):
his license plate was Dr Reeseand I just thought that was the
coolest thing.
I just was so enamored withthat and so in my mind I was
going to be a doctor and mylicense plate would one day say
Dr Kia.
And so that's what I dreamedabout.
And I sort of found my waythrough schooling, still
(08:37):
thinking that, you know, notreally fully understanding all
the different ways that I couldbe a doctor.
So I sort of tried a lot ofdifferent things, ended up
studying psychology throughundergrad and sort of tried my
hand at a lot of different typesof psychology worked with
(09:00):
adolescents, worked with youngkids, found that those things
weren't really my ministry butfound a sweet spot in the space
of higher education Because Ifelt like working with college
age individuals was sort of likea happy medium of, like you
know, burgeoning adulthood, thatI felt safe and so I sort of
(09:20):
found my way into the field ofhigher education.
I sort of found my way into thefield of higher education and
that's where I've been eversince trying to understand, you
know, college is.
I went to college in the year2000 and I have not left.
I'm still there.
I'm still there digging aroundand and causing trouble.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So they don't get a hold on you, though, as someone
that is a lifetime student, likein the pandemic, when everyone
was panicking, I was, like I'mgoing to go to school.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I'm just going to read.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I was like I'm going to learn about medicine because
we might need it, because I needto go with the ancestry to
learn about all the herbs andthings.
So I got another damncertificate.
Because problems Oftentimespeople are in my face like you
should go be a doctor and get adoctorate in psychology and do
(10:16):
all these things.
I don't think I want to, butwhy did you do it?
Did you feel like you had to?
I feel like sometimes incertain spaces people don't
respect me as much because Idon't have the little, little
name.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, awesome question and I'm glad you asked
because you know, from thatlittle girl who wanted to be Dr
Kia, I got into the work ofhigher education and realized
that I'm much more practical interms of like I felt like
academics can sometimes, youknow, in that research space
(10:58):
it's really easy to sort of getin the world of where you're
only talking to other academicsand I wanted I knew very, very
quickly that I wanted what I waslearning to translate into
practice.
So I mean, I love research andI love scholarship, but you know
, the so what of it was was kindof my bottom line and in that
(11:21):
vein, in higher ed since that'slike a practice you know field,
so to speak I kind of got amaster's and then I got another
master's and it was like well, Iam out here, you know, I'm
working on campuses, I amworking in administration, I'm
(11:43):
contributing to sort of howthings get done in this space
and I felt like I was doing allright and I had a really bad ass
white woman from the UK as asupervisor.
She was the only woman in thecivil engineering and
engineering mechanics department, in the civil engineering and
(12:06):
engineering mechanics department, and I was her department
administrator and she was justlike.
It was like 60 white men on thefaculty and her and she was
very, but I loved because shehandled those men.
She did not sit quietly in theroom, she did not allow them to
talk over her, she just was realand I loved working with her.
I learned a lot from her and shehad a very candid conversation
(12:29):
with me one day after adepartment meeting and she was
like Takiyah, you have excellentideas and you're very bright,
but nobody's going to listen toyou.
And I said, excuse me, you'relike what now?
I'm sorry.
What she was like no one'sgoing to listen to you, they're
going to steal your ideas.
And I was like please explain.
She said in the academy, youknow, credentials are currency
(12:59):
and if you want people to takeyou seriously, you have to have
what they have when you enterthe room.
So if you want people, if youwant to have the influence in
this field that I know you wantto have, I would admonish you to
go back to school.
And she was like thankfully, wework at a school and you can do
it for free, so you know.
I was like okay, so I startedthe process of of.
You know, I was working then,then thinking I was just going
(13:19):
to stay in the administrativelens, but I got into the um a
program at Teachers College,columbia University.
That's where I was working atColumbia in the engineering
school.
So I got into the TeachersCollege at Columbia University
and there I felt like myresearch.
The seeds were of my interestin research really started to
(13:40):
germinate and take bloom and Istarted to understand that, uh,
as a researcher I could stilllove research and I could take
charge of sort of how I wantedto show up in the scholarly
space.
And so, you know, things justworked out where I ended up
transitioning out of thatprogram where I was going to
school full-time and workingstill full-time as a department
(14:02):
administrator in the School ofEngineering, and I was able to
get into a fully funded doctoralprogram at the University of
Maryland where I ended upfinishing and getting my PhD in
higher education.
And so to you I will say, and toanyone who asked me, you know
it's all about what you want todo with the information, that
(14:25):
you, that you have the learning,you know what you learn, what
the kind of influence, theimpact you want to I was very
intentional and strategic andyou know Dr Culligan's advice,
it's always sort of been whatpushed me in that direction.
But I don't think anyone shouldget a PhD or any sort of
terminal doctoral situationunless they are very clear about
(14:47):
how they want to show up intheir field.
And yeah, I say, if you arebeing impactful and doing having
the kind of impact that youwant to have, without that then
I don't know if it's necessary.
But if there are certain things, I will say that the, that
doctoral study affords you witha realm of options and you can
(15:11):
sort of write your own ticketand create the ways that you
want to be influential orimpactful in your field.
Then you know I recommend it,but it is not easy, especially
for people who look like us.
That was my next question.
You know I recommend it, but itis not easy, especially for
people who look like us.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
That was my next question.
You know, you know it was blackladies, and not talk about how
hard it is.
My God you not even, not, noteven at the door.
Get into the parking lotsometimes is a journey, even at
(15:47):
the door.
Getting to the parking lotsometimes is a journey.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So how have you kept afloat, looking healthy and
blessed?
I would say truth andtransparency and community have
been sort of my saving graces inthese spaces.
So I was very intentional aboutwell after certain experiences.
So, like, my time at TeachersCollege was equal parts
(16:15):
traumatizing and inspiring.
So I feel like ColumbiaUniversity in and of itself is
an awesome place to learn.
So I feel like ColumbiaUniversity in and of itself is
an awesome place to learn and Iwas always very excited to learn
there and it fueled mymotivation and sustained my
(16:38):
energy for the long haul that isgraduate study, also exposed to
the terrors of the academy inin in.
You know how those spaces canlack humanity, uh, particularly
for people of marginalizedidentities like like me, and so
I did not have the best timethere.
(17:01):
Um, so when it was time for meto move forward from that place,
I was very clear that I neededto have a model and an exemplar.
I needed somebody to show me howto be a Black woman in this
field, someone who was doingsimilar work and who shared
(17:29):
certain identity groups with me,so that I can really have a
model for how to negotiate someof these spaces.
And that really was a gamechanger, and so she was very
truthful and she told me thegood, the bad, the ugly of the
academy, and so I felt preparedfor when things started to
happen to me, and so buildingcommunity was also a way that
(17:49):
helped me keep moving forward.
So, as I was learning and, asmy colleagues, as we were
learning from the women of colorthat we had proximity to, of
color that we had proximity to,we tried to share that in a
variety of ways.
(18:10):
So building community digitally, you know in person, you know
just sort of creating spaceswhere we can have honest
conversation about the highs,the lows, the difficulties, the
challenges, the difficulties,the challenges, the triumphs of
(18:31):
negotiating grad school, youknow.
So getting that, people pouringinto me and me being
intentional about pouring backinto others were the things that
sort of sustained me and keptme moving through the madness.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Do you think you're on the other side of the madness
?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
No, I think the madness evolves because, like
you know, right now I am anacademic but I'm not working in
the academy in ways that I usedto.
So, you know, you transitionfrom working.
I transitioned from workinglike at a university, then I was
(19:08):
working at an association foracademics, so like a
professional developmentorganization, and now I'm
working at a philanthropicorganization that wants to have
influence in the academy, and soI'm in the academy working in
sort of a corporate space now,and so I find myself sort of
(19:30):
living in two different worldsand having to translate across
those worlds.
So my madness has not.
I've not left the madness, butI'm sort of renegotiating it.
I'm engaging it in ways that Inever have before, which has
been equal parts.
I mean, it's been illuminating,but it has also been exhausting
(19:54):
.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
As hell, probably as hell as again.
As a lifetime student myself, Iwas bored one day and I said
you should do another something,so I started researching rape
investigation just to again putthat little paper to make it
seem a little more.
So I was doing rapeinvestigation and two masters, a
(20:18):
master's in law with a focus incriminal justice.
So it would have been all thethings with a focus in criminal
justice.
So it would have been all thethings.
And so I was going through themotions.
C's don't get degrees in gradschool, baby, they don't.
And so they don't.
So I had gotten two C's, but Iwas also navigating my ailing
parents.
So I was raised by grandparents, as you know, and my
(20:40):
grandfather was dying.
He had cancer and eventually hedid pass away last year.
And so the grief of it all andnavigating life, paying bills
and functioning, is something weall go through.
Because I could see your face,I see you, you have, you have
(21:00):
navigated a thing or two.
How, what happened?
How did you do the things?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
The thing that I feel like people will.
I won't say people, I'll saymyself.
Like you know, sometimes weassume that because we are so
focused on meeting this goalthat life will wait for us to
finish.
Before you know it starts tolife.
And so one of the things that Ihave learned through my own
(21:32):
experience and by watching theexperience of others yourself
included, like you know, a lotof times life starts to life
upside our heads, especiallywhen we are sort of in grad
school or in this learning space, and nothing is off limits.
Nothing is off limits Birthdeath, sickness, loss, loss of
(22:00):
jobs, anything and everythinghappens, you know, while you're
in school, and so you know.
It's about knowing that andgiving yourself the space and
the grace to do both to the bestof your ability, to the best of
(22:31):
your ability, and recognizingthat you know there is really no
balance.
People used to ask me all thetime how do you balance it all?
It's like I don't.
So, like in the times when I washyper-focused and dissertating
and trying to finish, I missed alot of family things.
I missed a lot of, you know.
I had to stop doing the thingsthat were sort of normal to me
and then, once I finished, I wasable to pick things back up.
(22:54):
But you know how?
I don't know.
I think for me that's aquestion I'm still learning to
answer.
I don't know if I share withyou, but you know, just four
days before I was to defend mydissertation, my brother passed
very suddenly, verytraumatically.
He was on vacation with hisfriends and there was some sort
(23:17):
of accident the details arestill very hazy and unclear,
they have not been defined orclarified to my family to this
day but drowned and my wholeentire world as I knew it just
about ended.
And I then had to learn how tobe Takiyah without Brian, and my
(23:45):
brother and I were only 18months apart, and so I had no
memory of life without him andno expectation that I would have
to live without him.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And so.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I was at the very end of this journey and we were
making plans to go on a cruiseand go on a cruise and do things
.
You know, since I had been sounder my program.
You know we were making plansfor me to graduate and reconnect
(24:20):
and us to start to spend timeand do things together again.
And all of that went away andnobody asked me, I was not given
any notice, and the weight ofthat loss still still to this
day takes my breath.
Yeah, because I still don'tunderstand it.
But I share that so that peopleknow that you don't really
(24:44):
always get to know how you do it, but over time, the things that
help you to continue to show upand keep trying reveal
themselves in you and around youand you just keep going, one
day at a time.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, grief feels like for me depends on the day
and you just keep going one dayat a time.
Yeah, Grief feels like, for medepends on the day.
Some days I'm like oh yeah andit.
You know, this year was thefirst full year of the things
and like I woke up on mybirthday this year and I was
sitting and talking to mypartner and he was doing
something and I was like, yeah,and then I just started bawling
(25:26):
and he turned around.
He was like, did I saysomething?
And I was just like, oh, Iwon't get a phone call today.
I get emotional because it is athing and it's like, oh, I
don't have these things, oh,shit, fuck.
And it goes through the cycleof it.
It and it's grief is one ofthose things that like touches
(25:48):
all of us and none of us areever prepared for, like I wish
somebody would be like, thankyou for coming to grieve how
(26:19):
your reality does not align withyour expectation, and so, as I
am negotiating different phasesof my life, when my brother died
, I was 33.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And now I'll be 42 in December and I never anticipate
.
You know, my mom just turned 70and my grandfather just turned
91.
My mom just turned 70 and mygrandfather just turned 91.
And so all of the things thatcome with us transitioning
through different I have tosupport my mom in different ways
(26:52):
.
My grandfather requires adifferent level of care and
support, but you know, there arepeople in my family that are
negotiating various diagnoses of, you know, illness or you know
all kinds of things, and younever think.
When I was a kid, I would neveranticipated that I would have to
(27:14):
do any of this by myself,because I always had a brother,
like I always had a processpartner, someone who shared the
experience, and we can figure itout together.
And so, as things continue toarise, mommy turns 70 and you
know I have to plan her 70th andit's like I don't have nobody
(27:35):
to help me think that through,like I have to shoulder that and
uh, you know.
So all of these things, um, youknow, when we, when I lost my
grandma in 2022 and so all ofthese things, you just
everything and it compounds soto your point.
Um, my belief is that, since,like you said, my belief is that
(27:58):
since, like you said, grief issomething that connects all of
us and it is, to me, not asteady we are negotiating that
that would be super helpful andthat, oddly enough, is sort of
(28:35):
what is, I'm feeling, a call tothat idea, like I think it's the
marriage of my work and mycuriosity, the person who is
trained to ask and answerquestions.
I want to understand what isgrief designed to teach us.
How is grief designed?
What is its purpose?
(28:56):
What is its utility?
It has to have some sort ofsomething.
What is this utility?
(29:26):
It has to.
It has to have and sort ofpurpose or how we figure out
what it is that we're supposedto be doing.
What about your loss?
Is informing how you show up inthe world and what does that
mean for all of us?
And if there is a way to writethat down so that maybe one day
we can hand somebody a book andsay this is coming and this is
(29:51):
how you know, this is how shegot through it and this is how
they got through it and this ishow you know, not saying that
there's one answer, but maybethere's a collection of stories
that helps you figure it out.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I hope so.
I hope so, and I want it to becalled something wild like check
it out, bitch, like you gonnaneed me, or something that
you're like I hate to say I toldyou, but I told you this day,
yeah.
You brought up community and Ithink, as someone that has had
(30:33):
her head down and like just donethe things and not taken time
to like experience the thingsthat I've done, it takes my
friends to be like hold on,bitch.
We're about to celebrate you.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, because this is wild.
Same Bigly, bigly.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
What is that?
Because I feel like we're verymuch here, agreed, agreed.
How do you allow?
Okay, here's the thing how doyou allow community to support
you?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Because we can have community, but it doesn't mean
we always allow them toanswering that question, because
I don't know that I do it well,but I will say that, um, I'm
grateful that I have beenconnected to people who don't
(31:33):
allow me to miss it, miss thoseopportunities, Um, and I can't
take credit for that.
Like you know, I feel like Godhas put people in my life to
help me in this regard, becauseI feel like a lot of my
programming.
You know, like a lot of Blackwomen and a lot of eldest
(31:54):
daughters out there.
You know, keeping your headdown and doing what you're
supposed to do, child, and youdon't get a parade for doing
what you're supposed to do.
That's what my mom used to sayyou don't get a parade.
You're supposed to do it whatyou want A dollar, like you
don't get a parade.
So but you know I have awesomefriends and family members who
(32:15):
is like we're not going to letyou skirt past this, okay, and
and they are cultivating orhelping me to cultivate that
skillset and that awareness andso like, like you said, it is
not feel natural to my body atall.
My body be like no it does notfeel natural to my body at all,
(32:35):
but my therapist and the peoplewho love me are very intentional
about helping me to grow thatmuscle and develop that muscle.
And just like training in thegym, like we was talking about,
training is not enjoyable and itoften hurts, but it does.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
It does, yeah, it does make.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, it makes all the difference and it hurts
before it helps.
So you know I have to do it.
I did not plan a birthdayanything for myself until my
40th, because my birthday isalso five days before Christmas,
and so as a child it was alwayslike everybody's with their
(33:18):
families, people are otherwise,you know, predisposed.
People are busy, it's the time,and so over time I just sort of
conditioned myself not toexpect to do anything for my
birthday.
And then, after I lost mybrother, I felt guilty Like what
am I having a party for?
Like yeah.
And so I was very intentionalabout doing something for myself
(33:41):
for my 40th birthday, doingsomething I've never done before
.
So I planned a birthday tripand I was scared to death
because I fully anticipatedeverybody to say girl, you want
to go out of town beforeChristmas, are you dumb?
But to my surprise, 14 peopleshowed up in Antigua to
(34:01):
celebrate me, and it was alesson.
It was such a lesson and ithumbled me.
So, and even though it wasawkward and I was scared to
death to invite and ask peopleto do this, the fact that they
showed up helped me to see thatthere is some value in allowing
(34:22):
yourself to celebrate yourselfand to be celebrated by other
people.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, I mean, even if it's hard.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Especially when it's hard.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
We can teach people how to show up for us.
I'm all about teaching somebodyhow to show up for me.
I'm like here's a list.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I'm learning that.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I'm learning that it's okay for me to have that,
because that also doesn't feelnatural to my body.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah yeah, I've been trying to get out of the comfort
zones which feel they make meitch, but I do know that I am
bigger than where I am, and sothe only way we can get out of
(35:07):
that is to say all right, bitch.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Damn, here we go.
It's a lot of talking to myself.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
And you know you mentioned balance earlier,
because that was one of my wordsthat I was going to ask you is
what does the word balance meanto you?
And you were like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Nothing.
It don't mean nothing to me.
It's a lie, it's a myth.
It's a myth.
It's a nice idea.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think balance looks different for everyone.
Right looks different than foreveryone.
If we just look at how I lookat how Beyonce balances her
schedule, we're not on the samekind of schedule.
I need to look into me.
Who's a little broker?
We got different bank accounts,taxes and stuff, just like a
(35:59):
little bit I have to look at.
I don't have people to do thesethings, so what can I do to
like exist?
right um, and something that, uh, another guest that I've had on
the show, thea Monnier, talkedabout was joy, and like how
important joy is and how healingit is for us to be able to find
(36:23):
ourselves, to find that balance.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, music has been one of the things that's always
brought that joy to me, and Iremember somewhere, I was at an
event somewhere and I heardsomebody say it's less about
balance, and reframed it and waslike harmony.
Harmony feels like a betterword, right, and so there will
(36:49):
be.
You know there will, becausebalance suggests that there's
some sort of equilibrium, butharmony allows there to be sort
of discord, and sometimes thingsdon't go together, but they go
together, especially when we'rethinking about sound, you know,
(37:12):
whether that's in terms of toneor amplification, harmony is
what feels good, what feels goodeven though it may not make
(37:36):
sense mathematically.
And so I love that idea of joy,because I feel like that
reconnects the practical back toa feeling, and so it's.
What are the ways?
You know, how do I get back tothat state of management?
It may not be like ideal, likeor balanced, but how can I
(38:06):
manage where I am right now,understanding that, like you
said, that's going to lookdifferent for me every day,
depending upon the circumstances, and that's not, that's going
to be the same across person,across time, across everything
yeah, there's the idea of likefake it till you make it.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
But the like psychological way to look at it
if people like language is likebehavioral activation, and so
it's like the ways that we justforce ourselves to do the things
that normally bring us joy andeventually we do go okay, I can
exist here.
That's something I've beendoing for myself, especially
(38:41):
after this kind of grief.
It's like no, I actually wouldlike to stay on my sofa and
ignore all y'all, but I will goto this event, I will go to this
party or whatever.
Do you ever find yourselfhaving to navigate some
behavioral activation?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
every day, every day, every single day.
Um, yeah, I think, uh, it goesback to like we were talking
about building the muscle.
Um, because you know, if,unfortunately, in in training,
(39:27):
I'm learning that and if I wanta muscle to grow, that means I
have to break down what wasthere and that hurts, um and so,
but, but what grows back isstronger.
So, um, going back to you know,thinking about my brother, like
you know, on the anniversary mybrother's passing in june, for
the first five years, I wouldsit in a dark room and just be
(39:54):
miserable because I felt like Idid not have the strength or the
capacity to try to do anythingelse.
Because you relive theconditions every year.
You think about where you were,what you were doing, and all of
it just comes back and, whetheryou wanted to or not, it's like
(40:16):
the mind involuntarily takesyou through this torturous deja
vu where you have to relive thishorrible, treacherous thing
that happened to you.
Yeah, you feel it, like youfeel it in your body, like I
feel my heart beating fast.
I feel I feel every, everythingthat I felt in 2016 when it
(40:39):
happened, and so, to your pointaround behavior activation.
I had that time and I neededthat time to just let my body do
what it needed to do.
But I would say about threeyears ago I really wanted to try
(41:00):
.
I heard my brother.
You know sometimes I hear hisvoice and not that he's actively
talking to me, but, like youknow, I think about how I'm
reminded of sort of like what hewould say in a, in a situation
tangent.
But just let me, I was at a, Iwas at a wedding.
(41:23):
Shortly after he passed, I wasat a wedding and, um, the bride
had a dance with her siblings.
I had to go.
I couldn't hang, I couldn'thang, I.
So I went out in the hallwayand was trying to keep myself
from having an emotionalbreakdown at these people
(41:43):
wedding and I heard my brothersay I wasn't going to dance with
you, no way.
And it made me laugh.
It made me laugh right.
And so, similarly, I'm thinkingabout the anniversary of his
passing and I heard him, I felthim say like you doing this and
(42:04):
I know this is hard, but I'm notasking you to do this.
I don't want you to do this.
I don't want you to feel likeyou have to be in this dark and
heavy place every year.
I'm not asking you to do that.
And so it was like okay, andsomething in me said that I need
to try to honor my brother'slife by trying to live mine.
He wouldn't want me to stopliving.
(42:28):
I don't feel like he would havethat expectation of me.
And so since then I've beentrying, regardless of how it
felt in my body, I've beentrying to honor his life by
living my and doing somethingthat he will want me to do.
So I will go on a trip, I will,if I'm going to grieve, I'm
(42:51):
going to try to, you know, atleast grieve in a beautiful
place with wonderful weather andgood food and drinks.
And so, and so I now have, youknow, I honor, I think, about
the anniversary of my brother'spassing by having and I call it
like my little grief retreat,because that's the day, that's
(43:12):
the time where I give myself thespace to have my feelings, and
that doesn't mean that I'm notsad and miserable, but I try.
And so to your point aboutbehavior activation, like I need
to try to do this until itfeels like the right thing to do
.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I trick myself all the time.
I'd be like, if you go, do thisthing, it might be fun.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
There might be a check.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I don't know, it might be fun there might be a
check.
Yeah, I don't know, I don'tknow.
find the motivation that feelsgood for you um, I would miss a
spot in this conversation if wedidn't talk about mental health,
as two queens, goddesseseveryone is welcome for our
existence that have studiedpsychology.
(44:01):
Um, I am a child of trauma, aseveryone that knows, and, if you
heard, my mother was killed infront of me when I was one, so
all I've known is trauma.
I am the birthing of this thingand I didn't realize.
I knew how important mentalhealth was because I'd been
doing the things to like helpmyself.
(44:24):
But it really hits when you getolder and you're like, oh no, I
need to take care of my mentalhealth for sure so how do you,
when did you realize?
Was it before?
Psychology after your brother'slife?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I don't know.
It was definitely so.
I psychology, got degrees inpsychology but never had a
therapist.
It was definitely losing mybrother.
That sort of prompted my sortof commitment to my own mental
health, mental health.
So I had a grief counselor,sort of just to help me sort of
wrap my brain Because, again,like I was saying before, I am
(45:01):
not okay if I don't understand.
I need somebody to talk methrough this, like just what in
the hell is going on?
You have to explain, I needtools, I need information.
So I started to see a griefcounselor and it was like, okay,
this person is going to help meunderstand my grief so that I
(45:22):
can manage it.
But I got into the griefcounseling and she was like you
know, I think you're through,and I was like excuse me,
through what she was trying to,like graduate me, and I was just
no, no, no, no, no.
You said I don't accept, try,I'm not.
(45:44):
No, no, no, excuse me you.
You trying to leave me.
I don't understand what you'resaying, like breaking up.
So I don't whoa, like what?
Like it was, it was very um.
So that's when I realized that,like you know, this, this, this
time, this practice of sittingdown and talking through my
feelings and getting tools andlanguage and framing for helping
(46:07):
me to.
You know what's good for myhealth, because I started to
sort of see how it helped me tofeel better and it was connected
to other things, and so Itransitioned from grief
counseling to regular therapycounseling and you know sort of
have been there ever since andnow, of course, that I've been
(46:30):
doing that work, I'm, like youknow, my dumb.
My dumb ass should have beendoing this years and years ago,
years, many years ago, years andyears ago, years, many years
ago.
But yeah, that has been, and Iwant to say this because I don't
know, it just feels pertinent.
(46:55):
I grew up in church.
My grandfather is a minister,he was a pastor and he passed in
one of the larger churches inmy city for almost for all of my
life, but you know he was acareer pastor.
He passed it for over 40 years,and so I grew up in the church
and I'm a church baby and a babyof faith, and so for a long
time there was this, there wasthis like pray your way through
sort of framing and faith.
(47:17):
Faith was the answer to allthings and it still is.
But I feel like in my journeyand what became clear to me as I
was sort of you know,identifying, you know my
counselor and what that wasgoing to look like in my life, I
understood that these thingscan and should coexist and
(47:39):
should coexist, yeah.
And so I say that for the otherchurch babies who may be
listening, or people who sort ofraised up in that tradition or
framing, that it is both prayerand therapy, it is both, and not
either or, and that sort of has.
That was a very key aha for mebecause it was like one does not
(48:05):
cancel out the other, but theycan and should coexist.
And you know it has beenawesome and so, um, my faith, my
, you know who I am, who Ibelieve God is and who I believe
I am through God, is reallyinterwoven into my mental health
(48:26):
.
My therapist sort ofspecializes in sort of that
spiritual counseling and it'sbeen awesome because it really
has given new life and newframing and new perspective
around things that I have sortof been hearing all my life in
church.
I now have new understandingand it's sort of it's made both
(48:48):
better, like it's not so, soit's just enhanced it for me in
in a number of ways.
So I just can't talk about mymental health without adding
that in Cause it's a, it's a bigpiece.
As I was saying before,processing is sort of the way
that I find my way back, and I'mlearning now that prayer is
(49:09):
often sort of how I steadymyself.
Prayer is the way that Iprocess things with myself and
with God and that is what sortof gets me out of that panic oh
my God, what's going on place?
And you know it's not always inthe conventional ways that
we've been trained to pray, butI talk to God very candidly,
just like I'm talking to you,like do you see, what's going on
(49:30):
here, hello, what you?
Speaker 1 (49:33):
feel I'd be like so are we playing a game?
Speaker 2 (49:35):
It'd be like so what you finna do about it.
Okay, cause finna do about it?
Okay, because I just feel likeI have questions and you're not
anytime you want to step on inhere and do your god, I'm down
with that.
Yeah, you're best as you tellme I'm gonna get right on out
the way.
So yeah, I feel like my answersare very long.
I apologize, I'm ramblingapologize.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I think they're very full and that's what we like
here fullness.
Um, I do believe, like when Iwas, when I was raped because,
you know, I like to say rapedinstead of sexually assaulted
I've been sexually assaultedmore times than I can account
for, but I've been raped oncethat I truly count um, and when
I was navigating fuck school,fuck death, but it just consumed
(50:22):
, yes, and I say all that.
I say that because I wentspiritual before I went to a
therapist, right, like I feltlike I needed to get right with
me and understand me and getback into my body and, like you
said, define the words, find thelanguage and then go and be
(50:45):
like all right, my therapy.
Shout out to Betty we stilltogether, girl.
Betty was like okay, but Ishowed up.
Like I learned how to meditate,I learned how to hear myself, I
learned how to question thethings so important.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Very, and it's a step that we yeah, we run.
We run right past that,oftentimes, right Cause, I think
in a lot of our originalconceptualizations of like
religion, religious practice,god, people wrap that up in like
what you can't do or whatyou're not supposed to do.
Or at least my understanding ormy my I won't say my
(51:24):
understanding but a lot of myoriginal default programming was
you know, more about god'sexpectations of who we are, who
we weren't supposed to be, howwe weren't supposed to show up,
and so it felt very, um,legalistic, but it was through
sort of, you know, through these, through the marriage of sort
(51:47):
of mental health and and, um, myrelationship with God.
It helped me to sort of see andunderstand that God is so much
bigger than this list of thingsthat are forbidden or what
people expect or don't expect,and it's cultivated a
(52:11):
relationship, and so that takesthe legalism away, because if I
love you, I want to do thethings that make you happy.
I want to do the things thatbring you joy.
I want, and you know, same likereciprocal, reciprocal.
So it is um it.
(52:32):
Those are the things that havebeen sort of new perspective
that I've been able to glean.
That has been that I treasure,that I cherish so much because
it personalizes.
It personalizes thatrelationship.
It's like, you know, everyonesays I love God, but it's like
(52:52):
no, I love God, I spend timewith him, we are close, he talks
to me, I talk to him, like wego together, real baby.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I love this for us.
Have you while navigating, youknow?
You know we talk about there'strauma within everything we meet
.
Uh, I also talk in third person.
Sometimes I blame it becauseI'm a Gemini and so we talk
about within grief and withinschool and all of these things.
There's traumatic thingseverywhere.
(53:28):
I have had to unlearn a lot ofthings to exist in this world.
Now how have you navigated?
Unlearning to exist, to be theperson person you are not the
person necessarily that peopleconsumed or the people that to
be the person you are, but notnecessarily the way that people
(53:48):
might imagine you to be awesomequestion, I think.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
um, so I study transformation.
I study how individuals andorganizations transform to sort
of to to embody the values thatthey espouse.
A lot of times we say you know,or I'll do.
(54:14):
This organization say you know,we, we are equitable, and it's
like, ok, how, like you know?
And so then, when you start todig into that, we start to see
the dissonance between who yousay you want to be and who you
are.
And so my work is aboutunderstanding what people need
to know and what skills andpractices and competencies and
(54:37):
what are the things that help toclose that gap.
And so I say that, to say Ibelieve that our lives uh, you
know who we are is sort of ajourney in like manner, right,
um, we all have, well, I havethose who are the kind of person
that I want to be.
Uh, and when you know, speakingof of sort of prayer, one of
(55:01):
the things I pray and and andsay often when I'm talking to
God is Lord, make me.
I want to be who you had inmind when you said I'm going to
make me a Kia one day, when youare thinking about I'm going to
make me a Takiyah, and she willdo this.
I want to be that, because whenwe enter the world, we start to
(55:25):
learn who we are by virtue ofwhat other people tell us, who
you know we, who we are, whatwe're supposed to be doing, and
if we're not careful, we'll keepour head down and sort of just
keep operating in that, in thoseroles never, giving ourselves
the opportunity to sort of allowour original programming to
(55:48):
manifest, to bloom, our originalprogramming to manifest to
bloom.
And so I was, I want to say, avictim of that, but I guess
that's the word that came to mymind, because I was so beholden
to being a good daughter, a goodstudent, a good friend, a good
partner, a good employee, a goodChristian, a good I was so, so
(56:11):
bogged down with what otherpeople said I was supposed to be
, that I stopped giving myselfpermission to say I'm Takiyah
and I like yellow nail polishand big earrings and fried
chicken, like I never allowedmyself to make my own choices
(56:34):
and decide what I want.
And so I had to learn that.
And it is an ongoing process ofme still learning that, because
I'll tell you how I knew that Ihad it real bad Every time it
was time to make a decision.
I needed a committee of peopleto help me to decide what to do
For me in my house.
(56:55):
What color do you think I shouldpaint the walls?
What kind of nail polish do youthink I should get?
I'm getting my nails done today.
Here are some options.
Let me know what you think Iwould let other people make
decisions for me.
Let other people make decisionsfor me you just spoke to
somebody and I realized that Iwas like girl what do you want?
Speaker 1 (57:17):
What do?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
you want my therapist , one of my therapists?
She would ask me okay, what doyou like to do for fun?
And I would just start riddlingoff all of the things that I
did for other people, or all thethings you know.
Well, that's work, okay.
Well, I uh, I like to uh, youknow, I like to.
You know, call my mom and shewas like no, no, no, what do you
(57:39):
like to do?
It's to show me like, show methat you know girl you're not
talking about yourself.
You're talking about otherthings that you do for other
people, and she startedchallenging me Do you do that
because you want to, or do youdo that because you're supposed
to?
How was that Horrendous?
(58:00):
It was terrible.
I felt exposed.
I felt stupid Because I'm nottalking that this was happening
when I was 22.
Jimenica, this was happeninglike two years ago, yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
I was 39.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
It doesn't have to be big age I was 39 and the girls
was like, well, what you want todo?
And I was like, well, whaty'all want to do.
So you know, ms Sharon would belike no girl, what do you want
to do?
So Ms Sharon would be like nogirl, what do you want to do?
And she would not let us leavethat conversation until I
answered the question.
So in all of that, I feel likeI am unlearning that programming
(58:44):
and realizing that it wasconnected to so many other
things.
I like the confidence in my owndecision-making.
I have been disappointed by somany things in my life that I no
longer trusted my own decisionsand that was a painful place to
realize that I was.
But I've been working myselfout of that and allowing myself
to unlearn those habits.
(59:07):
You know, going to the club.
I went to the club for 10 years.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Hated it, hated it every time Don't invite me to
the club.
I don't want to go, but I feltlike everybody else was going.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I needed to be where the people were.
They wanted to go.
They keep inviting me, I guess.
Speaker 1 (59:28):
I got the show up, my mom used to tell me you know
you don't have to go everywhere,that you're invited, and I was
like I think I do.
I feel like I should.
They want me there.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
I mean, and what if they don't want me there?
That would be terrible.
So I have to go.
They don't have to invite me,yeah, so I've been giving myself
permission to say no, likereally checking in and making
sure, and I'm still doing it,and me and Jay were talking on
the show a couple of weeks ago.
One of the things I'm doingright now is I'm older and my
(01:00:00):
body is changing and I'm alsocleaning and purging and sort of
getting my house together.
And I'm going through oldclothes and realizing, like girl
, what was you on when youbought this Girl?
What was you doing?
Like who is what is happening?
Judging myself, it's like soharshly right.
(01:00:21):
It's like, why did you do this?
And I'm giving away things thathad tags on it and again
realizing that all of thisconnects back to, and I was
dressing, trying to look likesomebody else or look like how
people expected me to look.
And so even now I'm working ondefining my personal style.
(01:00:41):
How do I want to show up likeTakiyah?
I don't care what the trends isdoing, I don't care what the
girls is on.
How do I embrace, learn to lovethe body that I have, celebrate
(01:01:02):
that body by making it look asgood as I can.
And you know what does thatlook like for me?
I'm not watching nobody'sPinterest boards, I'm not
following no influencers to tellme how to dress my body, but I
am making decisions on what Iwant my personal style to be.
So all of that again, superlong answer.
I'm just all over the place.
But that is sort of thatunlearning.
(01:01:24):
That is sort of exactly where Iam right now, because you don't
realize how deep thatprogramming is down in you.
And still somebody starts toask you well, why?
Well, why are you doing it likethat?
Well, why?
I was like why are you in mybusiness?
(01:01:45):
Why are you asking me thesequestions?
Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
But yeah, no, I think it is so real though, Like the
process of unlearning is alwaysgoing to be a thing right, it's
how we become who we are.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
It's how we become who we are.
I'm starting to really dig itand I think it's because I am,
for the first time in my life,allowing myself to really like
myself Now, pick her apart, notcompare her to anybody else, to
(01:02:36):
be OK by myself, to spend timewith myself and not worrying
about what other people arethinking about me, and I'm
learning to dig that.
It's like it's kind of lit overhere.
Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
What my house.
I mean, I love it here.
Who wouldn't want to be here?
I love it here.
Yeah, we're, we come into theend of of this.
But there's a word that youbrought up that also really
resonates with me, and it waspermission, like giving yourself
permission to do things,because I say it to my clients.
There's also.
There's also we say thesethings to people all day.
(01:03:07):
You're like girl, why you?
That's crazy, didn't that'scrazy.
And you'd be like I'm fine overhere.
I don't even need permission.
But like we do need to havethese talks.
Like I was talking to a clientbefore this and we were talking
about some stuff and I was likeyou know, when that voice comes,
do you talk back to it?
And she was like what I said doyou talk back to it?
(01:03:37):
Because it's not expecting youto fight back, it's just
expecting to consume you.
So I'm we about to tussle and Iwant that permission and for me
it's like power.
You're like power me up.
Like no, you're not about toget me today.
I'm about to get out this bed.
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Yes yes, you don't call the shots, I do girl.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Thank you.
Thank you, you're allowed to behere.
Okay.
Two questions left.
Okay, self-care andself-soothing.
How do you care for yourself ona daily?
Because you're busy.
You're out here, you arenavigating work.
You got podcasts, gotrelationships, you got existence
.
You got to maintain that blonde.
Here's the thing.
(01:04:12):
How are we doing all?
I've been blonde, I know it's amaintenance uh, yes, girls, a
labor of love yes.
What does self-care look likefor you?
What does soothing things looklike for you?
I'm challenging.
Here we are.
Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Here we are.
You see me folding in becauseI'm like girl, I am awful at
this Self-care, self-care.
I need to rely on routinesbecause I'm the kind of person
(01:04:52):
that if it's not built in I'mnot going to do it, and so I try
to be very regular in myself-care in terms of sort of
also the maintenance of thethings that I do that make me
feel good.
Like I like to get my toes doneand I like to keep my nails
done.
I like to get my hair done.
Like I like to get my toes doneand I like to keep my nails
done.
I like to get my hair done.
(01:05:13):
So, uh, I have people, I have ateam and I have standing
appointments that are, you know.
So, like every Friday at nine45, I get a haircut.
Um, you know, when I get I havemy color, like every six to
eight weeks.
You know I have a standing, youknow I just call Tania.
(01:05:33):
It's like I'm coming.
I bet I see when you get here,same for nails, same, you know,
standing it's like it's got tobe built in, like this is
happening every week and I'mblessed that.
You know, my life is set up ina way where I can keep that up.
But also, I'm very intentional.
(01:05:56):
When I was in grad school, I wasvery much in school in all ways
.
I didn't have no money, Ididn't have no life, I was in
school.
And so when I graduated, it waslike, well, what you going to
do now with all this time andall these resources?
And my therapist called me outagain because that's what she
loved to do.
She loved to be in my businessin that way and she was like you
(01:06:18):
know, you've been in school for10 years, let's say, let's say,
all these years, you never tooka vacation.
And I'm just like I, that'strue, but like so.
And she was like so you, youowe yourself vacation, like you
got back vacations that you need, like you know, you and I also
(01:06:38):
had a postdoc.
Yeah, like I had a postdoc aftermy my doc program, where I
really didn't have the the fundsto be vacationing, so I wasn't.
So she was like you owe yourselfa vacation for every year you
was in grad school, every yearyou was in your, your um, um,
your postdoc, and so, like youknow, she makes me tell her when
(01:07:02):
I'm gonna take time off.
And I have accountabilitypartners.
It's one of my friends thatalso works with me at the Gates
Foundation, you know, and we'reblessed at the Gates Foundation
to have unlimited PTO.
So she we have a reminder everyevery quarter she will ping me
and be like when are youutilizing your benefits?
(01:07:22):
And that means tell me thedates that you're taking off
this quarter.
And it's like, so you know,having people to hold me
accountable my therapist,tiffany, other people that
asking me like are you doingthis?
That is sort of what helps meto sort of maintain that
self-care.
Have you gotten a massage thismonth?
No, okay, we'll schedule it andthen send me back.
(01:07:45):
Send me back the confirmation.
So I know you did it andbecause people know how I'm set
up right.
I'll be like yeah, girl, I'll doit and then don't do it, Right.
Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
So they said that's cute, I want to receive.
Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, real quick Self-soothing, I think I let
myself.
I let my emotions emote howeverthey need to, for I've always
been, all my life, I've been acrier.
I've always been, all my life,I've been a crier and I would
try to suppress that, becausepeople think you weak and they
can beat you up when you cry.
Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I wasn't allowed to cry.
I cried too much for a while,as I heard, and I learned how to
cry again.
Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
I didn't be crying, I just let myself, cry, cry and I
learned my therapist helped me.
So see, crying is the body'soutlet.
Outlet is how it gets back tohomeostasis.
So you're not crying becauseyou're a punk.
You're crying because youworked up and your body trying
to get you back down here withthe rest of us, and so I let
myself cry.
I cry on planes, I cry in thetarget.
(01:08:44):
I sit here and cry, I will cry,and even if I'm about to beat
your behind, it's going to be acrying, like me and Jay was
saying I'm finna cry, but you,finna, get this work.
So I let myself emote freely.
I've been sobbing through theOlympics.
I mean, it's just been a thing.
(01:09:05):
So that is how I self-soothe.
Crying and prayer, prayer ishow I steady myself.
So I got a prayer journal.
It's nothing for me to open upa document at work.
Then people get on my nerves.
I'm going to open up a doc andbe like all right, lord, let me
look like I'm working, but I'mreally telling Lord, I'm finna,
go upside her head.
So praying and crying is how Iself-soothe.
(01:09:28):
And shopping I love to buymyself beautiful things, but
that's another conversation foranother day.
Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
I'm not a shopper, thank God.
Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
I love all things fabulous.
If I could show you all of theways that I have been purging.
I'm just embarrassed about howmuch, and especially during
Covisha I was just in hereswiping my card with reckless
abandon it was very I was likewe might die Might as well be
happy.
I'm going to just get theseshoes and bags because that's
(01:10:01):
what will make me happy.
Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Yes, this has been so fun for me and it also.
Listen, I was just I'm gonnatell you, I was just in an email
looking at going back to thisgrad school program that I got
kicked out of, and I was justtalking to these people and
first off, they didn't changethe program.
They were like, oh, we don'thave this, we don't have this,
but you can transfer fourclasses, that's already.
I was like, well, give me moreinformation, cause that's crazy,
(01:10:33):
cause, I think, about eight to12.
It was like one most crazy.
What that was crazy.
But I think this conversationis going to be so helpful to a
lot of people because we've beenhere and side note because we
love a side note.
the first college I ever spokeat was the one you were at.
Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
I spoke in uh, in a classroom for Erica Hart, oh wow
.
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
And that was the first at Columbia.
That was the first, yeah, and Iwas like, okay, yes, that's so
funny.
Um, okay, well, we, we'vetouched and tapped and zibbled
around.
And my last question of theshow everybody that listens
(01:11:18):
knows it's because I'm nosy andbecause we talk about wild
things that go all over.
So what is the wildest thingthat someone has texted dm or
emailed you in the last twoweeks?
Uh, relative, for wild it couldbe whatever okay.
Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
So this is hard, because I have a few
relationships in my life thatare maintained slowly through
sending memes back and forth oninstagram, because I think this
is how we sort of process, uh,and just sort of keep up with
things, and we love to sort ofshare in in that kind of mess.
(01:11:49):
So I see all kinds of thingsevery day.
I don't know if it's wild uh,it's probably not gonna be wild
to most, but um, I felt seen byit, so I will say I will say
this this is the thing that cameto mind.
Um, so there is this gift,there's this meme of this.
(01:12:11):
Like this woman she's probablyan evangelist of some sort she's
in church and she's at thepodium and she's saying the yoke
of the devil is destroyed,right, and then somebody has
overlaid that with jadakiss, wegonna make it.
So it's like she says the yokeof the devil is destroyed, and
then it says fuck the frail shit.
(01:12:34):
And so it's like.
This is so me who put thistogether for me.
I will send it to you.
I'm like somebody was thinkingabout me, because this is me,
because both these are the twothings that can be true at the
(01:12:55):
same time for me, every time.
Right, I'm going to go there,and you know, in prayer, but we
can also go there In any otherkind of way.
So that's probably corny, butno, I liked it.
Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
There's nothing corny about that.
Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
I'm going to send it to you.
I'm going to send it to you sothat you can see.
Maybe you can insert it for thepeople so that they can have a
reference.
But it was one of the craziestthings.
I actually posted it to mystories Like wow, I've just
never felt more seen by a meme.
It's like going into Augustlike fuck the frail shit, but
(01:13:38):
also going into the August likethe yoke of the devil is
destroyed Because he doesn'thave any business around me.
Get out of here with your messyself.
Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
So, yes, this was great, this was fantabulous.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
I am always honored when people will open their
platforms up to me and I praythat I've said something that
has been useful to someone,somebody, somebody.
Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
Okay, Well, where can he, they, she, they, they,
everybody, all the pronounswhere can they find you and get
your business?
Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Everyone, y'all can get in my business.
I'm on Instagram at TakiyahNicole T-Y-K-E-I-A-N-I-C-O-L-E.
That's the national middle nameof black girls born in 1982.
If you did not know that,takiyah Nicole at Takiyah Nicole
on Instagram, I'm also aco-host on the Getting Grown
podcast with my sister Jade,where we talk about all things
(01:14:41):
adulting the good, the bad, theugly, the tester trials, the
twists, the turns, thetemptations and the taxes of
being an adult in the year of2024.
We're always down there kickingand carrying on and keeping up
some mess.
Um, yeah, I mean it's called uhx now, but I'll never stop
calling it twitter because, girl, what not doing that?
(01:15:04):
You stupid.
It's very dumb, very, very dumb.
Um, I need to change my Twittername.
I wanted to make it the same asmy Instagram name.
It's still the same Twittername that I had back in 2009,.
But all the girls over thereand we have a good time it's
nothing but treble.
N-o-t-h-i-n-b-u-t-t-r-e-b-l-eNothing but treble on Twitter.
(01:15:28):
I'm going to try to change that, but you know that's what you
can find me in the meantime, inbetween time, and you know, yeah
, otherwise I'll be sittingright here in this black chair
at this desk typing real fastManaging your black business,
that's right With your black job.
That's right.
That's right, that's right, butthank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Of course, you know what to do, do the things, and
until next time.
The conversation today is something that I am
super excited that I got to have.
It is the start of half of apodcast that we all love, so let
me introduce you to Takiyah NRobinson, phd baby, aka Dr Kiyah
, co-host of the Get and Grownpodcast on the Loudspeakers
Network, a show by for and aboutBlack women and men who are
(00:46):
negotiating the changes andchallenges of the worst hood
adulthood.
Dr Kia and her co-host, chefJade Jade of all, jades Ferretti
have grown the Get Growncommunity of listeners to
include over 28 million peoplesince 2017.
As a scholar of change andtransformation and a storyteller
, ta'kia brings her personalexperience and professional
(01:07):
expertise to conversations aboutthe transitions, triumphs,
trials, twists and turns ofadulting.
Practical tools that illuminatethe processes of how
organizations and the peoplethat they are compromised of
learn, function, change andtransform to serve all
(01:30):
priorities and stakeholders withexcellence and equity.
Y'all buckle up.
We talked, we laughed, we cried, we did it.
So, y'all, we got Dr KiaFabulous.
I'm excited for thisconversation.
I love having this podcastbecause I think that we learn
(01:53):
from conversations.
I think we learn from otherpeople's stories, and this leads
me to my first question, whichmakes people cringe, which makes
me happy who are you?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh, that is a very cringe worthy question, um, but
(02:55):
uh, I would try my best toanswer it.
Um, my name is T'Kia, myfriends call me Kia, and I see
myself in a lot of differentways, but, first and foremost, I
am a daughter, I am a sister,I'm a Black woman, I am a
believer, I am a scholar, I am astoryteller and I live in the
pursuit of all things fabulous,but I see myself as a lifelong
learner who is committed tosharing lessons that we learn
and translating scholarship intopractice.
What are the things that helpus to be better and to operate
in purpose?
I want to be fruitful and Iwant to live a life that will
(03:22):
make my mother and my brotherproud.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I love that.
That was so deep.
How do we meet?
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
We met through when you graced us at the kitchen
table on my podcast, which wasGetting Grown, and we talked to
you about your work as a traumaspecialist.
So I was introduced to youthrough Jade and XD and a lot of
(03:56):
other people that I care abouta great deal.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I love that.
Talk about me behind my back ifit's good.
Oh, it was good.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
What does trauma mean to you that interrupts our
state of homeostasis and thatcould sort of range in sort of
(04:34):
size and the degree of intensity, but anything that disturbs
sort of our state of equilibriumand normativity and our peace
in appreciable and substantialways.
So for a long time I thought oftrauma, as you know, just major
(04:55):
major events or drastic changes.
But I'm coming to realize thatthere are smaller jabs that
accumulate over time that alsocan have a traumatic impact on
(05:17):
who we are for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
They add up, they add up.
So I always like to ask myguests, like what do they want
to talk about?
And all the things.
And everyone was like wealready know what you need to
talk to her about.
Education and grief is about togo down and I said okay, you
know what?
That's what I like to talk about.
So this is fabulous.
I'm a roots girl and so when Isay that is, I think it's really
(05:43):
important to know where we comefrom and how we got here, cause
we didn't just show up at thesemagical ladies.
We were little girls and youknow we went through things, so
who were you before we got thatdoctor in?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
front of you.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
What did you want to be when you grew up?
Who were you?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, oddly enough, um, I'm working very hard to be
who I wanted to be when I was alittle girl.
But little Takiyah was curiousand recognized pretty early that
she is able to adapt to herconditions when she has some
(06:25):
sense of understanding.
And so she's always asked a lotof questions.
She's always wanted to gainunderstanding, to get clarity.
What's happening, why is ithappening, where are we going,
how are we going to get there?
Like these are the kind, that'sthe kind of little girl I've
always been, and my momcharacterized that as nosy.
(06:46):
But in my, you know, constantevolution, you know, at my great
big age, I have come to reframethat as a genuine, earnest
curiosity.
I am at peace when I haveunderstanding, and so when I can
(07:07):
process and gain understandingby any means, I feel most like
myself.
And so little Takiyah alwaysknew and I was talking to one of
my friends about this recentlyas we sort of process in
different phases of our livesand who we are, and I was never
(07:29):
the little girl that dreamedabout, you know, prince Charming
or, you know, a big churchwedding.
You know, I kind of thoughtthat those things sort of would
happen, because in my mind theyjust happened naturally or
automatically for most adults.
But I was the little girl thatdreamed about being a doctor.
(07:50):
I always wanted to be reallysmart and when I was a young
girl my parents divorced and Itook that very hard, and so my
mom.
Actually, I spoke to a childpsychologist I was probably nine
or 10, but I remember him.
It was a Black man in Harlemand he drove a green Lexus and
(08:15):
his license plate was Dr Reeseand I just thought that was the
coolest thing.
I just was so enamored withthat and so in my mind I was
going to be a doctor and mylicense plate would one day say
Dr Kia.
And so that's what I dreamedabout.
And I sort of found my waythrough schooling, still
(08:37):
thinking that, you know, notreally fully understanding all
the different ways that I couldbe a doctor.
So I sort of tried a lot ofdifferent things, ended up
studying psychology throughundergrad and sort of tried my
hand at a lot of different typesof psychology worked with
(09:00):
adolescents, worked with youngkids, found that those things
weren't really my ministry butfound a sweet spot in the space
of higher education Because Ifelt like working with college
age individuals was sort of likea happy medium of, like you
know, burgeoning adulthood, thatI felt safe and so I sort of
(09:20):
found my way into the field ofhigher education.
I sort of found my way into thefield of higher education and
that's where I've been eversince trying to understand, you
know, college is.
I went to college in the year2000 and I have not left.
I'm still there.
I'm still there digging aroundand and causing trouble.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So they don't get a hold on you, though, as someone
that is a lifetime student, likein the pandemic, when everyone
was panicking, I was, like I'mgoing to go to school.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I'm just going to read.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I was like I'm going to learn about medicine because
we might need it, because I needto go with the ancestry to
learn about all the herbs andthings.
So I got another damncertificate.
Because problems Oftentimespeople are in my face like you
should go be a doctor and get adoctorate in psychology and do
(10:16):
all these things.
I don't think I want to, butwhy did you do it?
Did you feel like you had to?
I feel like sometimes incertain spaces people don't
respect me as much because Idon't have the little, little
name.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, awesome question and I'm glad you asked
because you know, from thatlittle girl who wanted to be Dr
Kia, I got into the work ofhigher education and realized
that I'm much more practical interms of like I felt like
academics can sometimes, youknow, in that research space
(10:58):
it's really easy to sort of getin the world of where you're
only talking to other academicsand I wanted I knew very, very
quickly that I wanted what I waslearning to translate into
practice.
So I mean, I love research andI love scholarship, but you know
, the so what of it was was kindof my bottom line and in that
(11:21):
vein, in higher ed since that'slike a practice you know field,
so to speak I kind of got amaster's and then I got another
master's and it was like well, Iam out here, you know, I'm
working on campuses, I amworking in administration, I'm
(11:43):
contributing to sort of howthings get done in this space
and I felt like I was doing allright and I had a really bad ass
white woman from the UK as asupervisor.
She was the only woman in thecivil engineering and
engineering mechanics department, in the civil engineering and
(12:06):
engineering mechanics department, and I was her department
administrator and she was justlike.
It was like 60 white men on thefaculty and her and she was
very, but I loved because shehandled those men.
She did not sit quietly in theroom, she did not allow them to
talk over her, she just was realand I loved working with her.
I learned a lot from her and shehad a very candid conversation
(12:29):
with me one day after adepartment meeting and she was
like Takiyah, you have excellentideas and you're very bright,
but nobody's going to listen toyou.
And I said, excuse me, you'relike what now?
I'm sorry.
What she was like no one'sgoing to listen to you, they're
going to steal your ideas.
And I was like please explain.
She said in the academy, youknow, credentials are currency
(12:59):
and if you want people to takeyou seriously, you have to have
what they have when you enterthe room.
So if you want people, if youwant to have the influence in
this field that I know you wantto have, I would admonish you to
go back to school.
And she was like thankfully, wework at a school and you can do
it for free, so you know.
I was like okay, so I startedthe process of of.
You know, I was working then,then thinking I was just going
(13:19):
to stay in the administrativelens, but I got into the um a
program at Teachers College,columbia University.
That's where I was working atColumbia in the engineering
school.
So I got into the TeachersCollege at Columbia University
and there I felt like myresearch.
The seeds were of my interestin research really started to
(13:40):
germinate and take bloom and Istarted to understand that, uh,
as a researcher I could stilllove research and I could take
charge of sort of how I wantedto show up in the scholarly
space.
And so, you know, things justworked out where I ended up
transitioning out of thatprogram where I was going to
school full-time and workingstill full-time as a department
(14:02):
administrator in the School ofEngineering, and I was able to
get into a fully funded doctoralprogram at the University of
Maryland where I ended upfinishing and getting my PhD in
higher education.
And so to you I will say, and toanyone who asked me, you know
it's all about what you want todo with the information, that
(14:25):
you, that you have the learning,you know what you learn, what
the kind of influence, theimpact you want to I was very
intentional and strategic andyou know Dr Culligan's advice,
it's always sort of been whatpushed me in that direction.
But I don't think anyone shouldget a PhD or any sort of
terminal doctoral situationunless they are very clear about
(14:47):
how they want to show up intheir field.
And yeah, I say, if you arebeing impactful and doing having
the kind of impact that youwant to have, without that then
I don't know if it's necessary.
But if there are certain things, I will say that the, that
doctoral study affords you witha realm of options and you can
(15:11):
sort of write your own ticketand create the ways that you
want to be influential orimpactful in your field.
Then you know I recommend it,but it is not easy, especially
for people who look like us.
That was my next question.
You know I recommend it, but itis not easy, especially for
people who look like us.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
That was my next question.
You know, you know it was blackladies, and not talk about how
hard it is.
My God you not even, not, noteven at the door.
Get into the parking lotsometimes is a journey, even at
(15:47):
the door.
Getting to the parking lotsometimes is a journey.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So how have you kept afloat, looking healthy and
blessed?
I would say truth andtransparency and community have
been sort of my saving graces inthese spaces.
So I was very intentional aboutwell after certain experiences.
So, like, my time at TeachersCollege was equal parts
(16:15):
traumatizing and inspiring.
So I feel like ColumbiaUniversity in and of itself is
an awesome place to learn.
So I feel like ColumbiaUniversity in and of itself is
an awesome place to learn and Iwas always very excited to learn
there and it fueled mymotivation and sustained my
(16:38):
energy for the long haul that isgraduate study, also exposed to
the terrors of the academy inin in.
You know how those spaces canlack humanity, uh, particularly
for people of marginalizedidentities like like me, and so
I did not have the best timethere.
(17:01):
Um, so when it was time for meto move forward from that place,
I was very clear that I neededto have a model and an exemplar.
I needed somebody to show me howto be a Black woman in this
field, someone who was doingsimilar work and who shared
(17:29):
certain identity groups with me,so that I can really have a
model for how to negotiate someof these spaces.
And that really was a gamechanger, and so she was very
truthful and she told me thegood, the bad, the ugly of the
academy, and so I felt preparedfor when things started to
happen to me, and so buildingcommunity was also a way that
(17:49):
helped me keep moving forward.
So, as I was learning and, asmy colleagues, as we were
learning from the women of colorthat we had proximity to, of
color that we had proximity to,we tried to share that in a
variety of ways.
(18:10):
So building community digitally, you know in person, you know
just sort of creating spaceswhere we can have honest
conversation about the highs,the lows, the difficulties, the
challenges, the difficulties,the challenges, the triumphs of
(18:31):
negotiating grad school, youknow.
So getting that, people pouringinto me and me being
intentional about pouring backinto others were the things that
sort of sustained me and keptme moving through the madness.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Do you think you're on the other side of the madness
?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
No, I think the madness evolves because, like
you know, right now I am anacademic but I'm not working in
the academy in ways that I usedto.
So, you know, you transitionfrom working.
I transitioned from workinglike at a university, then I was
(19:08):
working at an association foracademics, so like a
professional developmentorganization, and now I'm
working at a philanthropicorganization that wants to have
influence in the academy, and soI'm in the academy working in
sort of a corporate space now,and so I find myself sort of
(19:30):
living in two different worldsand having to translate across
those worlds.
So my madness has not.
I've not left the madness, butI'm sort of renegotiating it.
I'm engaging it in ways that Inever have before, which has
been equal parts.
I mean, it's been illuminating,but it has also been exhausting
(19:54):
.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
As hell, probably as hell as again.
As a lifetime student myself, Iwas bored one day and I said
you should do another something,so I started researching rape
investigation just to again putthat little paper to make it
seem a little more.
So I was doing rapeinvestigation and two masters, a
(20:18):
master's in law with a focus incriminal justice.
So it would have been all thethings with a focus in criminal
justice.
So it would have been all thethings.
And so I was going through themotions.
C's don't get degrees in gradschool, baby, they don't.
And so they don't.
So I had gotten two C's, but Iwas also navigating my ailing
parents.
So I was raised by grandparents, as you know, and my
(20:40):
grandfather was dying.
He had cancer and eventually hedid pass away last year.
And so the grief of it all andnavigating life, paying bills
and functioning, is something weall go through.
Because I could see your face,I see you, you have, you have
(21:00):
navigated a thing or two.
How, what happened?
How did you do the things?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
The thing that I feel like people will.
I won't say people, I'll saymyself.
Like you know, sometimes weassume that because we are so
focused on meeting this goalthat life will wait for us to
finish.
Before you know it starts tolife.
And so one of the things that Ihave learned through my own
(21:32):
experience and by watching theexperience of others yourself
included, like you know, a lotof times life starts to life
upside our heads, especiallywhen we are sort of in grad
school or in this learning space, and nothing is off limits.
Nothing is off limits Birthdeath, sickness, loss, loss of
(22:00):
jobs, anything and everythinghappens, you know, while you're
in school, and so you know.
It's about knowing that andgiving yourself the space and
the grace to do both to the bestof your ability, to the best of
(22:31):
your ability, and recognizingthat you know there is really no
balance.
People used to ask me all thetime how do you balance it all?
It's like I don't.
So, like in the times when I washyper-focused and dissertating
and trying to finish, I missed alot of family things.
I missed a lot of, you know.
I had to stop doing the thingsthat were sort of normal to me
and then, once I finished, I wasable to pick things back up.
(22:54):
But you know how?
I don't know.
I think for me that's aquestion I'm still learning to
answer.
I don't know if I share withyou, but you know, just four
days before I was to defend mydissertation, my brother passed
very suddenly, verytraumatically.
He was on vacation with hisfriends and there was some sort
(23:17):
of accident the details arestill very hazy and unclear,
they have not been defined orclarified to my family to this
day but drowned and my wholeentire world as I knew it just
about ended.
And I then had to learn how tobe Takiyah without Brian, and my
(23:45):
brother and I were only 18months apart, and so I had no
memory of life without him andno expectation that I would have
to live without him.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And so.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I was at the very end of this journey and we were
making plans to go on a cruiseand go on a cruise and do things
.
You know, since I had been sounder my program.
You know we were making plansfor me to graduate and reconnect
(24:20):
and us to start to spend timeand do things together again.
And all of that went away andnobody asked me, I was not given
any notice, and the weight ofthat loss still still to this
day takes my breath.
Yeah, because I still don'tunderstand it.
But I share that so that peopleknow that you don't really
(24:44):
always get to know how you do it, but over time, the things that
help you to continue to show upand keep trying reveal
themselves in you and around youand you just keep going, one
day at a time.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, grief feels like for me depends on the day
and you just keep going one dayat a time.
Yeah, Grief feels like, for medepends on the day.
Some days I'm like oh yeah andit.
You know, this year was thefirst full year of the things
and like I woke up on mybirthday this year and I was
sitting and talking to mypartner and he was doing
something and I was like, yeah,and then I just started bawling
(25:26):
and he turned around.
He was like, did I saysomething?
And I was just like, oh, Iwon't get a phone call today.
I get emotional because it is athing and it's like, oh, I
don't have these things, oh,shit, fuck.
And it goes through the cycleof it.
It and it's grief is one ofthose things that like touches
(25:48):
all of us and none of us areever prepared for, like I wish
somebody would be like, thankyou for coming to grieve how
(26:19):
your reality does not align withyour expectation, and so, as I
am negotiating different phasesof my life, when my brother died
, I was 33.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And now I'll be 42 in December and I never anticipate
.
You know, my mom just turned 70and my grandfather just turned
91.
My mom just turned 70 and mygrandfather just turned 91.
And so all of the things thatcome with us transitioning
through different I have tosupport my mom in different ways
(26:52):
.
My grandfather requires adifferent level of care and
support, but you know, there arepeople in my family that are
negotiating various diagnoses of, you know, illness or you know
all kinds of things, and younever think.
When I was a kid, I would neveranticipated that I would have to
(27:14):
do any of this by myself,because I always had a brother,
like I always had a processpartner, someone who shared the
experience, and we can figure itout together.
And so, as things continue toarise, mommy turns 70 and you
know I have to plan her 70th andit's like I don't have nobody
(27:35):
to help me think that through,like I have to shoulder that and
uh, you know.
So all of these things, um, youknow, when we, when I lost my
grandma in 2022 and so all ofthese things, you just
everything and it compounds soto your point.
Um, my belief is that, since,like you said, my belief is that
(27:58):
since, like you said, grief issomething that connects all of
us and it is, to me, not asteady we are negotiating that
that would be super helpful andthat, oddly enough, is sort of
(28:35):
what is, I'm feeling, a call tothat idea, like I think it's the
marriage of my work and mycuriosity, the person who is
trained to ask and answerquestions.
I want to understand what isgrief designed to teach us.
How is grief designed?
What is its purpose?
(28:56):
What is its utility?
It has to have some sort ofsomething.
What is this utility?
(29:26):
It has to.
It has to have and sort ofpurpose or how we figure out
what it is that we're supposedto be doing.
What about your loss?
Is informing how you show up inthe world and what does that
mean for all of us?
And if there is a way to writethat down so that maybe one day
we can hand somebody a book andsay this is coming and this is
(29:51):
how you know, this is how shegot through it and this is how
they got through it and this ishow you know, not saying that
there's one answer, but maybethere's a collection of stories
that helps you figure it out.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I hope so.
I hope so, and I want it to becalled something wild like check
it out, bitch, like you gonnaneed me, or something that
you're like I hate to say I toldyou, but I told you this day,
yeah.
You brought up community and Ithink, as someone that has had
(30:33):
her head down and like just donethe things and not taken time
to like experience the thingsthat I've done, it takes my
friends to be like hold on,bitch.
We're about to celebrate you.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, because this is wild.
Same Bigly, bigly.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
What is that?
Because I feel like we're verymuch here, agreed, agreed.
How do you allow?
Okay, here's the thing how doyou allow community to support
you?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Because we can have community, but it doesn't mean
we always allow them toanswering that question, because
I don't know that I do it well,but I will say that, um, I'm
grateful that I have beenconnected to people who don't
(31:33):
allow me to miss it, miss thoseopportunities, Um, and I can't
take credit for that.
Like you know, I feel like Godhas put people in my life to
help me in this regard, becauseI feel like a lot of my
programming.
You know, like a lot of Blackwomen and a lot of eldest
(31:54):
daughters out there.
You know, keeping your headdown and doing what you're
supposed to do, child, and youdon't get a parade for doing
what you're supposed to do.
That's what my mom used to sayyou don't get a parade.
You're supposed to do it whatyou want A dollar, like you
don't get a parade.
So but you know I have awesomefriends and family members who
(32:15):
is like we're not going to letyou skirt past this, okay, and
and they are cultivating orhelping me to cultivate that
skillset and that awareness andso like, like you said, it is
not feel natural to my body atall.
My body be like no it does notfeel natural to my body at all,
(32:35):
but my therapist and the peoplewho love me are very intentional
about helping me to grow thatmuscle and develop that muscle.
And just like training in thegym, like we was talking about,
training is not enjoyable and itoften hurts, but it does.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
It does, yeah, it does make.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, it makes all the difference and it hurts
before it helps.
So you know I have to do it.
I did not plan a birthdayanything for myself until my
40th, because my birthday isalso five days before Christmas,
and so as a child it was alwayslike everybody's with their
(33:18):
families, people are otherwise,you know, predisposed.
People are busy, it's the time,and so over time I just sort of
conditioned myself not toexpect to do anything for my
birthday.
And then, after I lost mybrother, I felt guilty Like what
am I having a party for?
Like yeah.
And so I was very intentionalabout doing something for myself
(33:41):
for my 40th birthday, doingsomething I've never done before
.
So I planned a birthday tripand I was scared to death
because I fully anticipatedeverybody to say girl, you want
to go out of town beforeChristmas, are you dumb?
But to my surprise, 14 peopleshowed up in Antigua to
(34:01):
celebrate me, and it was alesson.
It was such a lesson and ithumbled me.
So, and even though it wasawkward and I was scared to
death to invite and ask peopleto do this, the fact that they
showed up helped me to see thatthere is some value in allowing
(34:22):
yourself to celebrate yourselfand to be celebrated by other
people.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, I mean, even if it's hard.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Especially when it's hard.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
We can teach people how to show up for us.
I'm all about teaching somebodyhow to show up for me.
I'm like here's a list.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I'm learning that.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I'm learning that it's okay for me to have that,
because that also doesn't feelnatural to my body.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah yeah, I've been trying to get out of the comfort
zones which feel they make meitch, but I do know that I am
bigger than where I am, and sothe only way we can get out of
(35:07):
that is to say all right, bitch.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Damn, here we go.
It's a lot of talking to myself.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
And you know you mentioned balance earlier,
because that was one of my wordsthat I was going to ask you is
what does the word balance meanto you?
And you were like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Nothing.
It don't mean nothing to me.
It's a lie, it's a myth.
It's a myth.
It's a nice idea.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think balance looks different for everyone.
Right looks different than foreveryone.
If we just look at how I lookat how Beyonce balances her
schedule, we're not on the samekind of schedule.
I need to look into me.
Who's a little broker?
We got different bank accounts,taxes and stuff, just like a
(35:59):
little bit I have to look at.
I don't have people to do thesethings, so what can I do to
like exist?
right um, and something that, uh, another guest that I've had on
the show, thea Monnier, talkedabout was joy, and like how
important joy is and how healingit is for us to be able to find
(36:23):
ourselves, to find that balance.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, music has been one of the things that's always
brought that joy to me, and Iremember somewhere, I was at an
event somewhere and I heardsomebody say it's less about
balance, and reframed it and waslike harmony.
Harmony feels like a betterword, right, and so there will
(36:49):
be.
You know there will, becausebalance suggests that there's
some sort of equilibrium, butharmony allows there to be sort
of discord, and sometimes thingsdon't go together, but they go
together, especially when we'rethinking about sound, you know,
(37:12):
whether that's in terms of toneor amplification, harmony is
what feels good, what feels goodeven though it may not make
(37:36):
sense mathematically.
And so I love that idea of joy,because I feel like that
reconnects the practical back toa feeling, and so it's.
What are the ways?
You know, how do I get back tothat state of management?
It may not be like ideal, likeor balanced, but how can I
(38:06):
manage where I am right now,understanding that, like you
said, that's going to lookdifferent for me every day,
depending upon the circumstances, and that's not, that's going
to be the same across person,across time, across everything
yeah, there's the idea of likefake it till you make it.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
But the like psychological way to look at it
if people like language is likebehavioral activation, and so
it's like the ways that we justforce ourselves to do the things
that normally bring us joy andeventually we do go okay, I can
exist here.
That's something I've beendoing for myself, especially
(38:41):
after this kind of grief.
It's like no, I actually wouldlike to stay on my sofa and
ignore all y'all, but I will goto this event, I will go to this
party or whatever.
Do you ever find yourselfhaving to navigate some
behavioral activation?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
every day, every day, every single day.
Um, yeah, I think, uh, it goesback to like we were talking
about building the muscle.
Um, because you know, if,unfortunately, in in training,
(39:27):
I'm learning that and if I wanta muscle to grow, that means I
have to break down what wasthere and that hurts, um and so,
but, but what grows back isstronger.
So, um, going back to you know,thinking about my brother, like
you know, on the anniversary mybrother's passing in june, for
the first five years, I wouldsit in a dark room and just be
(39:54):
miserable because I felt like Idid not have the strength or the
capacity to try to do anythingelse.
Because you relive theconditions every year.
You think about where you were,what you were doing, and all of
it just comes back and, whetheryou wanted to or not, it's like
(40:16):
the mind involuntarily takesyou through this torturous deja
vu where you have to relive thishorrible, treacherous thing
that happened to you.
Yeah, you feel it, like youfeel it in your body, like I
feel my heart beating fast.
I feel I feel every, everythingthat I felt in 2016 when it
(40:39):
happened, and so, to your pointaround behavior activation.
I had that time and I neededthat time to just let my body do
what it needed to do.
But I would say about threeyears ago I really wanted to try
(41:00):
.
I heard my brother.
You know sometimes I hear hisvoice and not that he's actively
talking to me, but, like youknow, I think about how I'm
reminded of sort of like what hewould say in a, in a situation
tangent.
But just let me, I was at a, Iwas at a wedding.
(41:23):
Shortly after he passed, I wasat a wedding and, um, the bride
had a dance with her siblings.
I had to go.
I couldn't hang, I couldn'thang, I.
So I went out in the hallwayand was trying to keep myself
from having an emotionalbreakdown at these people
(41:43):
wedding and I heard my brothersay I wasn't going to dance with
you, no way.
And it made me laugh.
It made me laugh right.
And so, similarly, I'm thinkingabout the anniversary of his
passing and I heard him, I felthim say like you doing this and
(42:04):
I know this is hard, but I'm notasking you to do this.
I don't want you to do this.
I don't want you to feel likeyou have to be in this dark and
heavy place every year.
I'm not asking you to do that.
And so it was like okay, andsomething in me said that I need
to try to honor my brother'slife by trying to live mine.
He wouldn't want me to stopliving.
(42:28):
I don't feel like he would havethat expectation of me.
And so since then I've beentrying, regardless of how it
felt in my body, I've beentrying to honor his life by
living my and doing somethingthat he will want me to do.
So I will go on a trip, I will,if I'm going to grieve, I'm
(42:51):
going to try to, you know, atleast grieve in a beautiful
place with wonderful weather andgood food and drinks.
And so, and so I now have, youknow, I honor, I think, about
the anniversary of my brother'spassing by having and I call it
like my little grief retreat,because that's the day, that's
(43:12):
the time where I give myself thespace to have my feelings, and
that doesn't mean that I'm notsad and miserable, but I try.
And so to your point aboutbehavior activation, like I need
to try to do this until itfeels like the right thing to do
.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I trick myself all the time.
I'd be like, if you go, do thisthing, it might be fun.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
There might be a check.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I don't know, it might be fun there might be a
check.
Yeah, I don't know, I don'tknow.
find the motivation that feelsgood for you um, I would miss a
spot in this conversation if wedidn't talk about mental health,
as two queens, goddesseseveryone is welcome for our
existence that have studiedpsychology.
(44:01):
Um, I am a child of trauma, aseveryone that knows, and, if you
heard, my mother was killed infront of me when I was one, so
all I've known is trauma.
I am the birthing of this thingand I didn't realize.
I knew how important mentalhealth was because I'd been
doing the things to like helpmyself.
(44:24):
But it really hits when you getolder and you're like, oh no, I
need to take care of my mentalhealth for sure so how do you,
when did you realize?
Was it before?
Psychology after your brother'slife?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I don't know.
It was definitely so.
I psychology, got degrees inpsychology but never had a
therapist.
It was definitely losing mybrother.
That sort of prompted my sortof commitment to my own mental
health, mental health.
So I had a grief counselor,sort of just to help me sort of
wrap my brain Because, again,like I was saying before, I am
(45:01):
not okay if I don't understand.
I need somebody to talk methrough this, like just what in
the hell is going on?
You have to explain, I needtools, I need information.
So I started to see a griefcounselor and it was like, okay,
this person is going to help meunderstand my grief so that I
(45:22):
can manage it.
But I got into the griefcounseling and she was like you
know, I think you're through,and I was like excuse me,
through what she was trying to,like graduate me, and I was just
no, no, no, no, no.
You said I don't accept, try,I'm not.
(45:44):
No, no, no, excuse me you.
You trying to leave me.
I don't understand what you'resaying, like breaking up.
So I don't whoa, like what?
Like it was, it was very um.
So that's when I realized that,like you know, this, this, this
time, this practice of sittingdown and talking through my
feelings and getting tools andlanguage and framing for helping
(46:07):
me to.
You know what's good for myhealth, because I started to
sort of see how it helped me tofeel better and it was connected
to other things, and so Itransitioned from grief
counseling to regular therapycounseling and you know sort of
have been there ever since andnow, of course, that I've been
(46:30):
doing that work, I'm, like youknow, my dumb.
My dumb ass should have beendoing this years and years ago,
years, many years ago, years andyears ago, years, many years
ago.
But yeah, that has been, and Iwant to say this because I don't
know, it just feels pertinent.
(46:55):
I grew up in church.
My grandfather is a minister,he was a pastor and he passed in
one of the larger churches inmy city for almost for all of my
life, but you know he was acareer pastor.
He passed it for over 40 years,and so I grew up in the church
and I'm a church baby and a babyof faith, and so for a long
time there was this, there wasthis like pray your way through
sort of framing and faith.
(47:17):
Faith was the answer to allthings and it still is.
But I feel like in my journeyand what became clear to me as I
was sort of you know,identifying, you know my
counselor and what that wasgoing to look like in my life, I
understood that these thingscan and should coexist and
(47:39):
should coexist, yeah.
And so I say that for the otherchurch babies who may be
listening, or people who sort ofraised up in that tradition or
framing, that it is both prayerand therapy, it is both, and not
either or, and that sort of has.
That was a very key aha for mebecause it was like one does not
(48:05):
cancel out the other, but theycan and should coexist.
And you know it has beenawesome and so, um, my faith, my
, you know who I am, who Ibelieve God is and who I believe
I am through God, is reallyinterwoven into my mental health
(48:26):
.
My therapist sort ofspecializes in sort of that
spiritual counseling and it'sbeen awesome because it really
has given new life and newframing and new perspective
around things that I have sortof been hearing all my life in
church.
I now have new understandingand it's sort of it's made both
(48:48):
better, like it's not so, soit's just enhanced it for me in
in a number of ways.
So I just can't talk about mymental health without adding
that in Cause it's a, it's a bigpiece.
As I was saying before,processing is sort of the way
that I find my way back, and I'mlearning now that prayer is
(49:09):
often sort of how I steadymyself.
Prayer is the way that Iprocess things with myself and
with God and that is what sortof gets me out of that panic oh
my God, what's going on place?
And you know it's not always inthe conventional ways that
we've been trained to pray, butI talk to God very candidly,
just like I'm talking to you,like do you see, what's going on
(49:30):
here, hello, what you?
Speaker 1 (49:33):
feel I'd be like so are we playing a game?
Speaker 2 (49:35):
It'd be like so what you finna do about it.
Okay, cause finna do about it?
Okay, because I just feel likeI have questions and you're not
anytime you want to step on inhere and do your god, I'm down
with that.
Yeah, you're best as you tellme I'm gonna get right on out
the way.
So yeah, I feel like my answersare very long.
I apologize, I'm ramblingapologize.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I think they're very full and that's what we like
here fullness.
Um, I do believe, like when Iwas, when I was raped because,
you know, I like to say rapedinstead of sexually assaulted
I've been sexually assaultedmore times than I can account
for, but I've been raped oncethat I truly count um, and when
I was navigating fuck school,fuck death, but it just consumed
(50:22):
, yes, and I say all that.
I say that because I wentspiritual before I went to a
therapist, right, like I feltlike I needed to get right with
me and understand me and getback into my body and, like you
said, define the words, find thelanguage and then go and be
(50:45):
like all right, my therapy.
Shout out to Betty we stilltogether, girl.
Betty was like okay, but Ishowed up.
Like I learned how to meditate,I learned how to hear myself, I
learned how to question thethings so important.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Very, and it's a step that we yeah, we run.
We run right past that,oftentimes, right Cause, I think
in a lot of our originalconceptualizations of like
religion, religious practice,god, people wrap that up in like
what you can't do or whatyou're not supposed to do.
Or at least my understanding ormy my I won't say my
(51:24):
understanding but a lot of myoriginal default programming was
you know, more about god'sexpectations of who we are, who
we weren't supposed to be, howwe weren't supposed to show up,
and so it felt very, um,legalistic, but it was through
sort of, you know, through these, through the marriage of sort
(51:47):
of mental health and and, um, myrelationship with God.
It helped me to sort of see andunderstand that God is so much
bigger than this list of thingsthat are forbidden or what
people expect or don't expect,and it's cultivated a
(52:11):
relationship, and so that takesthe legalism away, because if I
love you, I want to do thethings that make you happy.
I want to do the things thatbring you joy.
I want, and you know, same likereciprocal, reciprocal.
So it is um it.
(52:32):
Those are the things that havebeen sort of new perspective
that I've been able to glean.
That has been that I treasure,that I cherish so much because
it personalizes.
It personalizes thatrelationship.
It's like, you know, everyonesays I love God, but it's like
(52:52):
no, I love God, I spend timewith him, we are close, he talks
to me, I talk to him, like wego together, real baby.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I love this for us.
Have you while navigating, youknow?
You know we talk about there'strauma within everything we meet
.
Uh, I also talk in third person.
Sometimes I blame it becauseI'm a Gemini and so we talk
about within grief and withinschool and all of these things.
There's traumatic thingseverywhere.
(53:28):
I have had to unlearn a lot ofthings to exist in this world.
Now how have you navigated?
Unlearning to exist, to be theperson person you are not the
person necessarily that peopleconsumed or the people that to
be the person you are, but notnecessarily the way that people
(53:48):
might imagine you to be awesomequestion, I think.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
um, so I study transformation.
I study how individuals andorganizations transform to sort
of to to embody the values thatthey espouse.
A lot of times we say you know,or I'll do.
(54:14):
This organization say you know,we, we are equitable, and it's
like, ok, how, like you know?
And so then, when you start todig into that, we start to see
the dissonance between who yousay you want to be and who you
are.
And so my work is aboutunderstanding what people need
to know and what skills andpractices and competencies and
(54:37):
what are the things that help toclose that gap.
And so I say that, to say Ibelieve that our lives uh, you
know who we are is sort of ajourney in like manner, right,
um, we all have, well, I havethose who are the kind of person
that I want to be.
Uh, and when you know, speakingof of sort of prayer, one of
(55:01):
the things I pray and and andsay often when I'm talking to
God is Lord, make me.
I want to be who you had inmind when you said I'm going to
make me a Kia one day, when youare thinking about I'm going to
make me a Takiyah, and she willdo this.
I want to be that, because whenwe enter the world, we start to
(55:25):
learn who we are by virtue ofwhat other people tell us, who
you know we, who we are, whatwe're supposed to be doing, and
if we're not careful, we'll keepour head down and sort of just
keep operating in that, in thoseroles never, giving ourselves
the opportunity to sort of allowour original programming to
(55:48):
manifest, to bloom, our originalprogramming to manifest to
bloom.
And so I was, I want to say, avictim of that, but I guess
that's the word that came to mymind, because I was so beholden
to being a good daughter, a goodstudent, a good friend, a good
partner, a good employee, a goodChristian, a good I was so, so
(56:11):
bogged down with what otherpeople said I was supposed to be
, that I stopped giving myselfpermission to say I'm Takiyah
and I like yellow nail polishand big earrings and fried
chicken, like I never allowedmyself to make my own choices
(56:34):
and decide what I want.
And so I had to learn that.
And it is an ongoing process ofme still learning that, because
I'll tell you how I knew that Ihad it real bad Every time it
was time to make a decision.
I needed a committee of peopleto help me to decide what to do
For me in my house.
(56:55):
What color do you think I shouldpaint the walls?
What kind of nail polish do youthink I should get?
I'm getting my nails done today.
Here are some options.
Let me know what you think Iwould let other people make
decisions for me.
Let other people make decisionsfor me you just spoke to
somebody and I realized that Iwas like girl what do you want?
Speaker 1 (57:17):
What do?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
you want my therapist , one of my therapists?
She would ask me okay, what doyou like to do for fun?
And I would just start riddlingoff all of the things that I
did for other people, or all thethings you know.
Well, that's work, okay.
Well, I uh, I like to uh, youknow, I like to.
You know, call my mom and shewas like no, no, no, what do you
(57:39):
like to do?
It's to show me like, show methat you know girl you're not
talking about yourself.
You're talking about otherthings that you do for other
people, and she startedchallenging me Do you do that
because you want to, or do youdo that because you're supposed
to?
How was that Horrendous?
(58:00):
It was terrible.
I felt exposed.
I felt stupid Because I'm nottalking that this was happening
when I was 22.
Jimenica, this was happeninglike two years ago, yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
I was 39.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
It doesn't have to be big age I was 39 and the girls
was like, well, what you want todo?
And I was like, well, whaty'all want to do.
So you know, ms Sharon would belike no girl, what do you want
to do?
So Ms Sharon would be like nogirl, what do you want to do?
And she would not let us leavethat conversation until I
answered the question.
So in all of that, I feel likeI am unlearning that programming
(58:44):
and realizing that it wasconnected to so many other
things.
I like the confidence in my owndecision-making.
I have been disappointed by somany things in my life that I no
longer trusted my own decisionsand that was a painful place to
realize that I was.
But I've been working myselfout of that and allowing myself
to unlearn those habits.
(59:07):
You know, going to the club.
I went to the club for 10 years.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Hated it, hated it every time Don't invite me to
the club.
I don't want to go, but I feltlike everybody else was going.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I needed to be where the people were.
They wanted to go.
They keep inviting me, I guess.
Speaker 1 (59:28):
I got the show up, my mom used to tell me you know
you don't have to go everywhere,that you're invited, and I was
like I think I do.
I feel like I should.
They want me there.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
I mean, and what if they don't want me there?
That would be terrible.
So I have to go.
They don't have to invite me,yeah, so I've been giving myself
permission to say no, likereally checking in and making
sure, and I'm still doing it,and me and Jay were talking on
the show a couple of weeks ago.
One of the things I'm doingright now is I'm older and my
(01:00:00):
body is changing and I'm alsocleaning and purging and sort of
getting my house together.
And I'm going through oldclothes and realizing, like girl
, what was you on when youbought this Girl?
What was you doing?
Like who is what is happening?
Judging myself, it's like soharshly right.
(01:00:21):
It's like, why did you do this?
And I'm giving away things thathad tags on it and again
realizing that all of thisconnects back to, and I was
dressing, trying to look likesomebody else or look like how
people expected me to look.
And so even now I'm working ondefining my personal style.
(01:00:41):
How do I want to show up likeTakiyah?
I don't care what the trends isdoing, I don't care what the
girls is on.
How do I embrace, learn to lovethe body that I have, celebrate
(01:01:02):
that body by making it look asgood as I can.
And you know what does thatlook like for me?
I'm not watching nobody'sPinterest boards, I'm not
following no influencers to tellme how to dress my body, but I
am making decisions on what Iwant my personal style to be.
So all of that again, superlong answer.
I'm just all over the place.
But that is sort of thatunlearning.
(01:01:24):
That is sort of exactly where Iam right now, because you don't
realize how deep thatprogramming is down in you.
And still somebody starts toask you well, why?
Well, why are you doing it likethat?
Well, why?
I was like why are you in mybusiness?
(01:01:45):
Why are you asking me thesequestions?
Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
But yeah, no, I think it is so real though, Like the
process of unlearning is alwaysgoing to be a thing right, it's
how we become who we are.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
It's how we become who we are.
I'm starting to really dig itand I think it's because I am,
for the first time in my life,allowing myself to really like
myself Now, pick her apart, notcompare her to anybody else, to
(01:02:36):
be OK by myself, to spend timewith myself and not worrying
about what other people arethinking about me, and I'm
learning to dig that.
It's like it's kind of lit overhere.
Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
What my house.
I mean, I love it here.
Who wouldn't want to be here?
I love it here.
Yeah, we're, we come into theend of of this.
But there's a word that youbrought up that also really
resonates with me, and it waspermission, like giving yourself
permission to do things,because I say it to my clients.
There's also.
There's also we say thesethings to people all day.
(01:03:07):
You're like girl, why you?
That's crazy, didn't that'scrazy.
And you'd be like I'm fine overhere.
I don't even need permission.
But like we do need to havethese talks.
Like I was talking to a clientbefore this and we were talking
about some stuff and I was likeyou know, when that voice comes,
do you talk back to it?
And she was like what I said doyou talk back to it?
(01:03:37):
Because it's not expecting youto fight back, it's just
expecting to consume you.
So I'm we about to tussle and Iwant that permission and for me
it's like power.
You're like power me up.
Like no, you're not about toget me today.
I'm about to get out this bed.
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Yes yes, you don't call the shots, I do girl.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Thank you.
Thank you, you're allowed to behere.
Okay.
Two questions left.
Okay, self-care andself-soothing.
How do you care for yourself ona daily?
Because you're busy.
You're out here, you arenavigating work.
You got podcasts, gotrelationships, you got existence
.
You got to maintain that blonde.
Here's the thing.
(01:04:12):
How are we doing all?
I've been blonde, I know it's amaintenance uh, yes, girls, a
labor of love yes.
What does self-care look likefor you?
What does soothing things looklike for you?
I'm challenging.
Here we are.
Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Here we are.
You see me folding in becauseI'm like girl, I am awful at
this Self-care, self-care.
I need to rely on routinesbecause I'm the kind of person
(01:04:52):
that if it's not built in I'mnot going to do it, and so I try
to be very regular in myself-care in terms of sort of
also the maintenance of thethings that I do that make me
feel good.
Like I like to get my toes doneand I like to keep my nails
done.
I like to get my hair done.
Like I like to get my toes doneand I like to keep my nails
done.
I like to get my hair done.
(01:05:13):
So, uh, I have people, I have ateam and I have standing
appointments that are, you know.
So, like every Friday at nine45, I get a haircut.
Um, you know, when I get I havemy color, like every six to
eight weeks.
You know I have a standing, youknow I just call Tania.
(01:05:33):
It's like I'm coming.
I bet I see when you get here,same for nails, same, you know,
standing it's like it's got tobe built in, like this is
happening every week and I'mblessed that.
You know, my life is set up ina way where I can keep that up.
But also, I'm very intentional.
(01:05:56):
When I was in grad school, I wasvery much in school in all ways
.
I didn't have no money, Ididn't have no life, I was in
school.
And so when I graduated, it waslike, well, what you going to
do now with all this time andall these resources?
And my therapist called me outagain because that's what she
loved to do.
She loved to be in my businessin that way and she was like you
(01:06:18):
know, you've been in school for10 years, let's say, let's say,
all these years, you never tooka vacation.
And I'm just like I, that'strue, but like so.
And she was like so you, youowe yourself vacation, like you
got back vacations that you need, like you know, you and I also
(01:06:38):
had a postdoc.
Yeah, like I had a postdoc aftermy my doc program, where I
really didn't have the the fundsto be vacationing, so I wasn't.
So she was like you owe yourselfa vacation for every year you
was in grad school, every yearyou was in your, your um, um,
your postdoc, and so, like youknow, she makes me tell her when
(01:07:02):
I'm gonna take time off.
And I have accountabilitypartners.
It's one of my friends thatalso works with me at the Gates
Foundation, you know, and we'reblessed at the Gates Foundation
to have unlimited PTO.
So she we have a reminder everyevery quarter she will ping me
and be like when are youutilizing your benefits?
(01:07:22):
And that means tell me thedates that you're taking off
this quarter.
And it's like, so you know,having people to hold me
accountable my therapist,tiffany, other people that
asking me like are you doingthis?
That is sort of what helps meto sort of maintain that
self-care.
Have you gotten a massage thismonth?
No, okay, we'll schedule it andthen send me back.
(01:07:45):
Send me back the confirmation.
So I know you did it andbecause people know how I'm set
up right.
I'll be like yeah, girl, I'll doit and then don't do it, Right.
Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
So they said that's cute, I want to receive.
Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, real quick Self-soothing, I think I let
myself.
I let my emotions emote howeverthey need to, for I've always
been, all my life, I've been acrier.
I've always been, all my life,I've been a crier and I would
try to suppress that, becausepeople think you weak and they
can beat you up when you cry.
Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I wasn't allowed to cry.
I cried too much for a while,as I heard, and I learned how to
cry again.
Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
I didn't be crying, I just let myself, cry, cry and I
learned my therapist helped me.
So see, crying is the body'soutlet.
Outlet is how it gets back tohomeostasis.
So you're not crying becauseyou're a punk.
You're crying because youworked up and your body trying
to get you back down here withthe rest of us, and so I let
myself cry.
I cry on planes, I cry in thetarget.
(01:08:44):
I sit here and cry, I will cry,and even if I'm about to beat
your behind, it's going to be acrying, like me and Jay was
saying I'm finna cry, but you,finna, get this work.
So I let myself emote freely.
I've been sobbing through theOlympics.
I mean, it's just been a thing.
(01:09:05):
So that is how I self-soothe.
Crying and prayer, prayer ishow I steady myself.
So I got a prayer journal.
It's nothing for me to open upa document at work.
Then people get on my nerves.
I'm going to open up a doc andbe like all right, lord, let me
look like I'm working, but I'mreally telling Lord, I'm finna,
go upside her head.
So praying and crying is how Iself-soothe.
(01:09:28):
And shopping I love to buymyself beautiful things, but
that's another conversation foranother day.
Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
I'm not a shopper, thank God.
Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
I love all things fabulous.
If I could show you all of theways that I have been purging.
I'm just embarrassed about howmuch, and especially during
Covisha I was just in hereswiping my card with reckless
abandon it was very I was likewe might die Might as well be
happy.
I'm going to just get theseshoes and bags because that's
(01:10:01):
what will make me happy.
Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Yes, this has been so fun for me and it also.
Listen, I was just I'm gonnatell you, I was just in an email
looking at going back to thisgrad school program that I got
kicked out of, and I was justtalking to these people and
first off, they didn't changethe program.
They were like, oh, we don'thave this, we don't have this,
but you can transfer fourclasses, that's already.
I was like, well, give me moreinformation, cause that's crazy,
(01:10:33):
cause, I think, about eight to12.
It was like one most crazy.
What that was crazy.
But I think this conversationis going to be so helpful to a
lot of people because we've beenhere and side note because we
love a side note.
the first college I ever spokeat was the one you were at.
Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
I spoke in uh, in a classroom for Erica Hart, oh wow
.
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
And that was the first at Columbia.
That was the first, yeah, and Iwas like, okay, yes, that's so
funny.
Um, okay, well, we, we'vetouched and tapped and zibbled
around.
And my last question of theshow everybody that listens
(01:11:18):
knows it's because I'm nosy andbecause we talk about wild
things that go all over.
So what is the wildest thingthat someone has texted dm or
emailed you in the last twoweeks?
Uh, relative, for wild it couldbe whatever okay.
Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
So this is hard, because I have a few
relationships in my life thatare maintained slowly through
sending memes back and forth oninstagram, because I think this
is how we sort of process, uh,and just sort of keep up with
things, and we love to sort ofshare in in that kind of mess.
(01:11:49):
So I see all kinds of thingsevery day.
I don't know if it's wild uh,it's probably not gonna be wild
to most, but um, I felt seen byit, so I will say I will say
this this is the thing that cameto mind.
Um, so there is this gift,there's this meme of this.
(01:12:11):
Like this woman she's probablyan evangelist of some sort she's
in church and she's at thepodium and she's saying the yoke
of the devil is destroyed,right, and then somebody has
overlaid that with jadakiss, wegonna make it.
So it's like she says the yokeof the devil is destroyed, and
then it says fuck the frail shit.
(01:12:34):
And so it's like.
This is so me who put thistogether for me.
I will send it to you.
I'm like somebody was thinkingabout me, because this is me,
because both these are the twothings that can be true at the
(01:12:55):
same time for me, every time.
Right, I'm going to go there,and you know, in prayer, but we
can also go there In any otherkind of way.
So that's probably corny, butno, I liked it.
Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
There's nothing corny about that.
Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
I'm going to send it to you.
I'm going to send it to you sothat you can see.
Maybe you can insert it for thepeople so that they can have a
reference.
But it was one of the craziestthings.
I actually posted it to mystories Like wow, I've just
never felt more seen by a meme.
It's like going into Augustlike fuck the frail shit, but
(01:13:38):
also going into the August likethe yoke of the devil is
destroyed Because he doesn'thave any business around me.
Get out of here with your messyself.
Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
So, yes, this was great, this was fantabulous.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
I am always honored when people will open their
platforms up to me and I praythat I've said something that
has been useful to someone,somebody, somebody.
Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
Okay, Well, where can he, they, she, they, they,
everybody, all the pronounswhere can they find you and get
your business?
Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Everyone, y'all can get in my business.
I'm on Instagram at TakiyahNicole T-Y-K-E-I-A-N-I-C-O-L-E.
That's the national middle nameof black girls born in 1982.
If you did not know that,takiyah Nicole at Takiyah Nicole
on Instagram, I'm also aco-host on the Getting Grown
podcast with my sister Jade,where we talk about all things
(01:14:41):
adulting the good, the bad, theugly, the tester trials, the
twists, the turns, thetemptations and the taxes of
being an adult in the year of2024.
We're always down there kickingand carrying on and keeping up
some mess.
Um, yeah, I mean it's called uhx now, but I'll never stop
calling it twitter because, girl, what not doing that?
(01:15:04):
You stupid.
It's very dumb, very, very dumb.
Um, I need to change my Twittername.
I wanted to make it the same asmy Instagram name.
It's still the same Twittername that I had back in 2009,.
But all the girls over thereand we have a good time it's
nothing but treble.
N-o-t-h-i-n-b-u-t-t-r-e-b-l-eNothing but treble on Twitter.
(01:15:28):
I'm going to try to change that, but you know that's what you
can find me in the meantime, inbetween time, and you know, yeah
, otherwise I'll be sittingright here in this black chair
at this desk typing real fastManaging your black business,
that's right With your black job.
That's right.
That's right, that's right, butthank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Of course, you know what to do, do the things, and
until next time.
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