The Trauma Within Navigating Sex Positivity, Trauma, and Healing Journeys W/ Kate Loree

Do you have any questions, any comments about the episode? Jimanekia would love to hear from you!

Exploring the life and work of a transformative therapist, this narrative unveils the story of Kate Loree, a sex-positive therapist dedicated to helping others find healing and connection. Through her advocacy for marginalized communities, including the kink community, non-monogamous individuals, sex workers, and LGBTQ+ people, Kate brings a compassionate, socially conscious approach to therapy. Her practice integrates a unique blend of social justice, art therapy, trauma work, and psychedelic healing, where tools like ketamine therapy reveal new dimensions of self-discovery and healing.

Kate’s journey began in her childhood, navigating a landscape marked by bigotry and sexual shame. Moving from Oregon to Alabama, she grappled with cultural stigmas, which ultimately shaped her path towards a career focused on trauma, creativity, and embracing diverse identities. These experiences have uniquely prepared her to help others overcome similar challenges, using her own life’s hurdles as a guiding light.

In this candid conversation, Kate opens up about her personal experiences with metastatic cervical cancer, a reality that—even in remission—impacts her daily life. She shares her reliance on meditation, exercise, and a deep connection to source energy, tools that help her find balance in the face of life’s uncertainties. We delve into her philosophy on self-care, the power of setting boundaries, and how navigating the healthcare system as a patient with a serious illness has sharpened her understanding of systemic inequalities.

As the conversation unfolds, Kate highlights the beauty of synchronicity and divine connection in her life and work. With a sense of wonder, she describes the grounding joy she finds in life’s small and grand moments alike—whether in her connection to ancestral wisdom, nature, or the universe’s subtle interconnections. This journey is as much about embracing gratitude and healing as it is about celebrating life's marvels. Join us for an inspiring exploration of resilience, self-compassion, and the profound impact of choosing joy amidst adversity.

Thank you all for listening. Set a boundary with yourself this week, set a boundary with someone else. If someone else does not respect that boundary. LET THEM LOOSE YOU! Stay hydrated internally and externally. We do not have an ashy family.


IG: @The_Trauma_Within
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thetraumawithin
Jimanekia Ig: @Jimanekia

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
hello everyone.
So this should be a fun talk.
I think this is a conversationthat's going to leave you with
more questions, and we love that, because that means you're
going to learn things, um, so myfirst question to my guests
you've already heard about meansyou're going to learn things,
so my first question to myguests you've already heard
about, which you are going tolearn so much more about, the
first question of the show iswho?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
are you?
Oh Lordy, there's layers there.
So I'm a sex positive therapist.
To me that means that not onlydo I fight against sexual shame,
but also I'm a social justicetherapist.
I definitely represent andserve the kink community,

(00:53):
non-monogamous sex workers,LGBTQ communities.
I'm also an art therapist, I'ma trauma therapist, so a lot of
times I'll get clients that arein those communities that also
need to do EMDR.
I'm also the author of a bookcalled Open Deeply a guide to
conscious, compassionate, openrelationships, and so I also get

(01:16):
a lot of clients that arelooking to work on their
relationship in my privatepractice.
In my private practice.
And let's see beyond trauma.
Art, oh, and then psychedelics.
I am starting to explore theworld of psychedelics.
Just finished a certificationin psychedelic harm reduction

(01:37):
and integration and learning howto sit with ketamine.
But beyond that, the more youdo psychedelics and stuff, you
realize that you are part of thehumming, vibrating, sensual,
sexual, spiritual hum of life,and I'm part of that as well.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
I love the way you put that.
I'm like, ooh, I want to behumming, I'm humming, I love
this.
How did that?
I'm like, ooh, I want to behumming, I'm humming, I love
this.
How did we meet?
How do you remember it?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Um, you know, I, there is only one degree of
separation between you and mewith so many people both in my
practice and outside of mypractice.
I have clients that bring upyour name.
I have friends that bring upyour name.
I'm not exactly sure how weinitially met, but I do know

(02:32):
that you show up in differentrealms in terms of trauma or
sexual abuse, but also sexpositivity and all that.
I'm not sure where we first met, but I do know my heart
connected to your heart, just onmy side, just hearing how much
people loved you and why.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
That's sweet.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
And continue to love you.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
The people are not calling me bitches to your face.
That's fine.
What does trauma mean to you?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Um what does trauma?

Speaker 1 (03:08):
mean to you.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean, I could talk about that for years, but, um, I
I do.
Uh, you had a previous guessthat that said something similar
.
You know, I do think about itin terms of how it shows up
within the person, and everybodyis different.
Um, some people might have atraumatic event and they're not
traumatized.
Another person could have atrauma history and they might
have some borderline personalitydisorder symptoms.

(03:32):
Another person might be DID andhave alters.
Another person might have PTSD.
So you know, it shows updifferently with everyone and
how they contend with it showsup differently.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I wrote a line and I just think it's funny.
I think we need to get to theroots before we get to the meal.
I must have been elevated whenI wrote that, because I didn't
even sound like me, but I thinkit is truly important to know
how you got to where you are.
So how did you get here?
What was baby Kate like?
How did you become thiswell-rounded human of a

(04:10):
therapist, of just existing,being someone that is seeking?
How did you become that person?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
All righty.
So I was born in Oregon.
My family are Canadians.
My mother was born in Canada.
I started out being verycreative.
There was a whole wall of wehad a vaulted ceiling with just
artwork going up to the top.
I was definitely I like to be aslip, but I used it as a tutu

(04:42):
and if my mom had guests over, Iwould, you know, do a ballet
dance, you know, spontaneouslyin front of all of her friends.
I could go on.
I did puppet plays over mylittle canopy bed.
I'd put a sheet in front, likeI was super creative, yeah.
And then my dad left without anote.
When I was six, my mom and Iwere on a trip.
We came back.

(05:03):
He had.
When I was six, my mom and Iwere on a trip.
We came back, he had clearedout and my mom was pretty
devastated.
And so my grandpa, who had gonefrom Canada, got his PhD in
psychedelic where did that comefrom?
In educational psych, and hehad landed in Alabama, and so
that is why a whole bunch ofCanadians ended up in Tuscaloosa

(05:24):
, alabama.
My mom left Oregon and then Iwas raised in Alabama, and so a
lot of who I am is in reactionto that Tuscaloosa was the kind
of place that you couldaccidentally run into a KKK
rally, which happened twice, youknow.
So I was sexually shamed when Iwas still a virgin, you know,

(05:45):
that's the kind of climate.
It's not all bad, you know.
But I have some dear friendsthere, but a lot of who I am is
in reaction to the bigotry, thesexual shame, the rigidity of
Tuscaloosa.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
How did you become a therapist Like?
Is that what you wanted to do?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
you know, I I think if it wasn't for some level of
trauma, I would have just been astraight-up creative.
It wasn't for the divorce andand my mom being a single mom
and having to struggle and andworrying about getting out of
Tuscaloosa, alabama, I probablywould have been a creative.
But that's not how things went.
There's a lot of foreshadowing.

(06:29):
I think my mother gave me myfirst book on sexuality when I
was like six.
It was age appropriate.
It was called when, where Did,where Did I Come From?
If you open the first flap,there's like a pattern on the
inside and it's like a littlesperm with a top hat and a cane
in a pattern.
You know like super, super cute.
Mom and dad are like kind ofchubby and making, like you know

(06:52):
, having a bubble bath etc.
You know.
And I got age appropriate booksabout sexuality as I grew up.
I was kind of like the Dr Ruthof lunchroom table by age five,
you know.
So that's kind of the sexualpiece.
I would, you know, get popsiclemoney by drawing art for my, my
peers in like the second grade.
So the art continued, you know,I later became an art therapist

(07:16):
before I became who I am now.
And then the trauma.
You know, it's like I hadfriends that would tell me about
their trauma.
I had my own level of trauma.
So all of these things.
I think the last thing I'd saywas, even in elementary school,
if somebody was mean to someoneelse or if I was bullied, I'd
come home and my mom would siton the front living room sofa

(07:37):
and explain to me, like she'dgive me compassion but she'd
also explain what makes a bully.
So I was literally beinggroomed to be a therapist in
elementary school.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's so interesting .
I always look back and I waslike I wanted to be a teacher
and I'm like, well, I guess Ikind of am a teacher in ways and
I was like, how the hell did Iget here?
And I was like, oh, I rememberI was raised by my grandparents
and we had cable and I had adoor, and so I watched a lot of
taxicab confessions, a lot ofreal sex, red shoe diaries, the

(08:16):
bunny house ranch, and I don'tthink I should have been per se
watching such things.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
But look at me.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Now it worked out like yeah, I'm like huh.
Did you ever have like thosemoments?
That was like that.
You were like this.
This just felt like the thing Ialways say that this work found
me like some people seek it out.
It was just like one of thosethings I was like oh well, I
can't.
Every time I try to dosomething else, it just brings
me back to this.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Ah yeah, I mean it was very much a progression.
This is what I'll say and itmay not answer your question
directly, but maybe I'll findthe answer as I go.
There's been times in lifewhere I have driven my destiny.
There's been times in lifewhere it felt like the universe
grabbed me by the ear and yankedme along, kicking and screaming
.
I got off course in my 20s.
I got.
I have two MBA or I have twomaster's degrees.
The first is an MBA.

(09:12):
I was very much off course.
No matter what I did, I'dmetaphorically be running at the
door to kick it down, to go tothe next phase and just break my
leg.
When I finally came out to LA tobe an art therapist initially,
I do that same running leap atthe door.
The door would fling open and Iwould be by, you know, 50 feet

(09:33):
in the next room, and so I thinkI don't know how you feel about
the concept of synchronicity,but I think that was the thing
that really let me know.
I was 110% sure that I was on myright track.
Was I started to have thisweird synchronicity, weird
things happen and I didn't evenknow it was a thing that some,
you know, spiritual folks talkabout, like Deepak Chopra.

(09:56):
I just started to notice, likeyou know, things got way easier
and things would happen that arejust strange.
Like I would be talking aboutRaquel Welch in the morning and
my taxi, my Lyft driver, wouldtalk about Raquel Welch on the
way to the thing.
Like these weird patternsstarted happening all the time,

(10:18):
and then later on I read abouthow that was actually kind of a
thing in spiritual groups andyou can make what you will of it
, but I just started to noticeall these things that just made
it feel like I was on the rightpath and the more I followed the
right path, the more thosethings would happen.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I think that answers the question beautifully.
Yeah, I think it answered it,and I think that that is one of
those things that often folksnavigate but don't have language
for and they're just like am I?
And it makes them questionthemselves, which I love
questions.
I think that's how we getthrough life, that's how we grow
.
When I was asking about whatyou wanted to talk about today

(10:57):
because I always ask my guests,I think it makes for a better
conversation you wanted to talkabout some things you haven't
talked about, and today we'regoing to talk about your
interwoven such a hard word forme.
It's one of those words on mylist woven journey with cancer
and psychedelics.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, I've talked about it a little bit, but it is
definitely a new thing and I'mstill learning how people react
to it.
So, and just jump in if I gettoo long winded, please.
So in 2019, that's the firsttime that I got cancer Well,
really, 2018.

(11:37):
I just turned 50.
It was the day after Christmas.
I was in Tuscaloosa visiting mymom and I got a call from my
gynecologist and she let me knowI had cancer the day after
Christmas and they caught itsuper early thanks to a lover
that I had.
So my lover at the time,amazing Jamaican artist.

(12:10):
I was bleeding a little bitduring sex.
I had talked to my primary carephysician about it.
He said, oh, it's justpremenopausal stuff, and so I
wrote it off and he was justlike promise me, you'll go to
the gynecologist.
And so I did and that's whythey caught it the first time
early.
If it wasn't for him, it wouldhave been a while because of

(12:31):
certain factors.
So you know, I had ahysterectomy and they took my
uterus and cervix.
I was scared I wouldn't be ableto have cervical orgasms.
There was a lot of fears.
There was a lot of fear and butit didn't change my sex life.
It didn't.
I was very fortunate in a lotof ways, but that whole journey

(12:51):
was scary, did?

Speaker 1 (12:53):
you, and did the surgery happen during the
pandemic or was it before?
Was it it was 2019?

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yes, yeah, it was before, and just to make a
little note that will show uplater on in the story if you
want to hear the whole story Atthat time.
You know they do all thesescans of your body when you have
cancer, and so they had found alittle nodule in my lung back
then and I talked to my friendPierre, who's a thoracic

(13:18):
oncological surgeon, amongstother things, and he said a
little, a lot of people have anodule, just get it checked in a
year, Um and and so you know, Ijust put a pin on it and in
fact, uh, I I didn't even get achat checked for, like four
years later.
But now I'm kind of gettingahead of myself in 2020.

(13:39):
I had a psychedelic journeythat helped me no longer be
scared of the other side ofdeath because of certain things
I saw.
Put a pin in that as well,because that adds to the story.
So in 2023, I went to Costa Ricaand I did a psychedelic journey

(14:00):
three in fact.
Journey three in fact and inthe third journey, my lung area
just felt like a concrete blockand I was using all my skills as
a therapist to try and clear itand I was struggling and I was
suffering I finally shined alittle light on myself, and when
the facilitators came to helpme and at that he tried to help

(14:25):
me, but basically what ended uphappening was my whole body
started to go into waves ofshakes and it felt like it was
breaking down.
Your body was the concrete blockin my lung area.
I felt like it was breakingdown.
But full body shakes what feltlike an hour, and during that
time, for some reason, I hadthis desire to have him put his

(14:48):
hand on my upper chest and thenon my forehead, and then on the
top of my head in a rotation.
So that's a whole story if youwant to hear it down the road,
so you can put a pin on that.
We're going to have a lot ofpins and let's see if we can
remember all the little pins weput everywhere, cause it's a
wild story that interweaves.
And then, once the wholeconcrete what felt like a

(15:13):
concrete block was gone in mylungs, then there was what felt
like an hour of just feelinglike my whole body was lit with
the divine.
It felt like I was the goddessand connected to the goddess,
you know, and that, and justfull body shakes for what it
felt like an hour, and thefacilitator would come and go,
but he stayed with me almostentirely.

(15:35):
That whole period of time,which felt like at least two
hours, until I was justcompletely exhausted and I fell
asleep, went back to my room.
When I woke up, a whole bunchof stuff happened.
And when I came home, a wholebunch of stuff happened in terms
of what felt like a Kundaliniawakening, and we can talk about

(15:57):
that if you like, I'll put itin that Love a pen, yeah.
So when I came home, I knowenough about psychedelics not to
ignore what happened to mylungs.
So I got my lungs checked.
The original nodule that wasfound in 2019 was deemed benign.
They found a new nodule, whichlater they would find out was

(16:21):
cancer.
So just notice.
So there's actually like aboutthree different miracles that
have already happened already.
One if I had gotten the firstnodule checked when I was
supposed to in 2020, the secondnodule would not have been there
because it was so small.
Even in 2023.

(16:42):
The 2019 nodule would have beendeemed benign and I would not
have gone back until it was toolate and I probably would not
have survived.
Does that make sense?
It makes so much sense.
Wow.
Miracle number one.
Miracle number two is that itfelt like the psychedelic let me
know to go back to get my lungschecked, and that also saved my

(17:04):
life.
Miracle number three that is alittle bit later in the story,
but I'll just say it now is thatusually, when that amount of
time four years have gone bybetween the first cancer and the
second cancer because this didturn out to be metastatic
cervical cancer that traveled tomy lungs Usually in that four
years it would be all over thebody.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
And it was not.
Later on in the story, you findout that it's just this little
teeny place and even after lungsurgery on October 4th of last
year, they couldn't findanything.
In mid 2023, I was talking tomy first surgeon, dr Lin, and my

(17:46):
second surgeon for my lungs, drKim.
They were both talking to me.
These are brilliant doctorsthat were referred to me through
Pierre City of Hope, top of theline, and they're both like
stage four you're probably notgoing to live.
You know, like they were.
They were letting me know thatI was going to die.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
What happened when you hear that information?
Like what did you think?
Like, how did you feel, how didyour body respond?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well, I Googled it, of course, like we're all not
supposed to do.
And I saw the stats which wereincredibly not comforting.
I talked to Pierre about it.
He said that they were wrong.
Although he has all the respectin the world for them, he's
like he felt like they werewrong for certain reasons.

(18:36):
So I one, I was incrediblyconfused because Pierre is
globally recognized Like he'sIvy league educated, top of the
line.
So I'm having three doctorsthey all brilliant tell me
different things.
Um, it wasn't my first rodeo,like the first time around.

(18:57):
I was also kind of it when you,when you hear that kind of stuff
, it's kind of like death isright here and by your cheek
going hey, how you doing.
Yeah, it's just like rightthere.
And in fact, when you find outyou have metastatic cancer,
which I you know, even thoughit's in remission now, it's

(19:18):
still metastatic and a lot ofpeople might get confused by
that.
And I'll explain it this way APET scan cannot pick up super
teeny tiny cancer.
So even though the PET scansays there's no cancer and
there's no detectable cancerthat's the key word right there
there's no detectable cancer.

(19:38):
It should be a neon light.
But you know and a lot ofpeople can't take the stuff in,
Like Deepak Chopra even has likea stat on this that almost all
people just binge watch TVthrough their cancer.
It's very rare for somebody tolike use it as a spiritual
journey or really learn how tocontend with it.

(20:00):
Yeah super rare, Anyway.
Where am I at so?
Okay, so when a person hasmetastatic cervical cancer, even
when it's in remission, or Icould just speak for myself
cancer is your roommate, Canceris riding shotgun, you know.

(20:22):
And so then you have to decidehow do you want to live with
that?
You know, for me, now I'mjumping forward to 2024.
But the way I've chosen to liveit, live with it, is to live
simultaneously, as if I'm goingto live a short life and a long
life, and that I knew thatintellectually, but it took me a

(20:45):
while to wrap my head around it.
Emotionally, which is still aprocess, and logistically, yeah,
I was gonna say balance, buthow I'm living a long time,
which could happen, and I couldexplain why.
I think that it would take menot phoning it in.

(21:11):
So every day I meditate and infact, just quickly.
Sometimes I get messages in theliminal space between dream and
wake and it's usually just asentence and it doesn't feel
like it comes from me.
And one time I was in theliminal space and you know,
again, very dreamlike place, andI remember saying like how can

(21:32):
I live?
And one word came in and saidmeditate.
Now, if you think that soundscrazy, right?
I mean, you live, you, yousurvive cancer because you get
the operation, because you dochemo, all that and I have done
two operations.
So I'm not.
Please, if you're listening,please don't hear that I'm
saying you should meditaterather than getting treatment.

(21:54):
Please do that.
Yes, there's no way in amillion years.
But when I was talking toPierre about that as a piece of
my plan, he's like he said well,I don't know.
You know, and this is a thingwhen you meditate.
This is my opinion.
Other people meditate fordifferent reasons.
Some people just do it as acoping skill.
I feel like part of meditatingat this point because I've been

(22:15):
doing it on and off since my 30sis it could potentially connect
you to source energy and fromthat place there's messages that
come in that aren't necessarilyfrom you working really hard to
think things out and figure outwhat supplements you need to
take, blah, blah, blah.
There's like messages that comein.
So, anyway, I'm beinglong-winded.

(22:36):
But going back to your questionof how do you do both.
So assuming that I'm going tolive a long life goes with the
whole package meditating,exercising every day, listening
to my doctors, being asconnected to source as possible.
So taking my supplements, takingmy Chinese medicine, like all

(22:58):
of that stuff I do every day,along with all the other stuff
my podcast, my private practice,writing my book, et cetera.
My second book, and thenassuming that I might live a
short life, is little thingslike the fact that I just did a
photo shoot with the amazingTroy Jensen.

(23:19):
If you need pictures, he'sawesome Because I'm about to get
my CT scan at the end of thismonth and if it came out that I
had cancer, they might jump inwith chemo and I might lose my
hair, and I wanted new picturesfor my website with with
glorious hair, you know, and Imade sure that that happened

(23:41):
with the off chance that thingscould turn in a negative way.
So those are just two examplesof how I do both.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's kind of like a mind fuck, though, to just like
or I think, in words that Iwould say to other people it's
like you just stay ready so youdon't have to get ready.
Like you stay in that balanceof like this may or may not, but
I'd like to be ready forwhichever happens.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, well, this is the thing when you have cancer,
and especially when you're smart.
When you have cancer and you'resurrounded by ridiculously
smart people that love you likeI'm blessed enough to have they
all have very strong opinionsabout what you should do.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Which can drive you completely insane, and so you
know.
So, basically, I listened for along time, I realized that it
was driving me insane and Ifinally, like, created a plan on
the daily and on the monthly.
And then I realized that at acertain point I had to kind of

(24:46):
put a boundary up.
It's not like a concreteboundary, like if somebody says
something brilliant and itsounds right, I'll edit in.
But in general, I created myplan of how to live my life and
I stick with that and then youlet go.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, because I'm also like that's so great, I
love that I'm not receivingright now, but thank you so much
.
Right, and that's okay.
That's okay and I think it also.
I'm one of those folks thatfeels like the ways that we show
up and take care of ourselvesreally teaches other folks how

(25:23):
they can teach take care oftheir selves and how they can
set the boundaries and all thethings.
So I'm like I hope someonewalks away like wow, kate,
really has a good boundary there.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
I'm going to go try and do that for myself.
Yeah, I mean, everybody hastheir experience and the thing
is, with something like cancerit is, things come in waves,
including your emotion comes inwaves.
The news you'll get good newsand you'll get shitty news, and
you'll get great news and thenyou'll get fucking horrible news
and it's just like this.
And so you know, even thoughI'm telling you kind of my 2024

(26:03):
plan, that doesn't mean thatthere wasn't a million times
that I was crawling in a ballcrying yeah.
And then there's other timeswhere I feel completely
connected to spirit, like inNovember, right after my lung
surgery last year.
This was still when I was mostlyhearing the bad news.

(26:23):
The thing is, the thing is whenyou have someone that dies,
then you're grieving everythingabout them.
When you're the one that mightdie, then you're letting go of
every fucking thing.
If you're doing it consciously,like every leaf, every friend,
every that David Bowie song youlike, you know that, yeah just

(26:47):
like everything about life thatyou loved, hated and, in the in
between, your cats, all that.
and so in the month of November,it was like everything that I
saw.
I was seeing it like a thefirst time, like a little
three-year-old at Christmas, ora little three-year-old that's
watching the paintbrush in thered paint with the blue paint on

(27:10):
the brush turn purple andthey're like, oh my God, like I
was that kind of wonder, plusthe idea that I might be losing
these people.
So, seeing things from thefirst time and the last time
simultaneously, and I was cryingconstantly.
That makes sense, but in a goodway, you know, but in a if it

(27:34):
makes sense in a good way.
And I wouldn't if somebody toldme, okay, we can take your
cancer away, but you'd lose thatmonth of November.
I think from my experience,since I didn't have to do
radiation, chemo and all that, Iwould say no, because it just
took me to a level of.
It was like gratitude on crack.
It was like gratitude times abazillion.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
What have these psychedelics given you?
And like, how have theysupported you pre and post?

Speaker 2 (28:06):
yeah, so I mentioned the journey.
That was in 2020, so it wasduring the pandemic and, uh,
when I did that particularjourney, um, um and I'm not
going to mention the type ofpsychedelic because I don't want
to influence people too much,but there was two psychedelics

(28:30):
involved.
The first psychedelic came onand it felt like every little
cell in my body was experiencinglove that was bigger than
anything I'd experienced orwitnessed.
And around that same time, thesecond psychedelic came in, and
so now they're interweaving andbasically, this shifting started

(28:55):
to happen where, all of asudden, I was out of my body and
I say I because that's how theEnglish language works, but I
was in this field.
That was limitless and timeless.
That again was love that wasbeyond anything that I
experienced or witnessed.
And now I'm in my body again,and now I'm in the expanse and I
kept flipping and I said tomyself I'm scared, I'm going to

(29:17):
forget this and a voice came inand said that's why I keep
flipping you, so that you won'tforget.
And so, and then a millionthings happened in that journey.
That was just the verybeginning, but in 2023, when I
was going through the roughestpart, where I was being told
that, you know, at stage four Iwas going to die it was that

(29:40):
part that helped with one pieceof death.
There's different pieces ofdeath.
That's one of many where Iwasn't afraid of the other side
and that was incredibly.
I, I, I can't tell you howhelpful that was.
I would want that for anybodygoing through cancer and,
unfortunately, psychedelics arenon-specific amplifiers.

(30:02):
So, just because I had thatexperience, does not mean
another person would Sure, yeah.
So that's one thing that thatjourney did.
And then I already told youwhat the journey at the
beginning of 2023 did, where Iliterally feel like, yeah, it
kind of saved my life.
You could say yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Is this how it's led to you now wanting to do this
work with other folks?

Speaker 2 (30:26):
yeah and uh.
I mean I almost feel like you'dhave to be an asshole to be
given all of these gifts and bea therapist and have the means
to get that training under yourbelt and not do it again.
It's like I talked to you aboutsometimes the unit, sometimes I
drive my density and sometimesthe universe grabs me by the ear

(30:48):
.
This doesn't feel like theuniverse grabbing me by the ear.
It just it feels like theuniverse just kind of sitting
next to me and going, you know,just kind of like showing me the
table and going look at the,look at all of this.
Yeah, you know, and uh, andit's just so apparent of the
things that I need to do yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Do you have a plan, since you just finished the?
Did you just finish thisprogram?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
yeah, and as soon as I stopped that when I started a
new program that to sit withketamine, but, but, but, uh,
that that's not the leading plan.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
What's the plan now?
I'm just nosy.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Well, there's different pieces, but so this
brings me back to one of thepins.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
So now we're remembering that.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
There you go.
So, uh, you know, I mentionedthat in that third psychedelic
journey.
After I woke up, I walked backto my room, fell asleep and I
woke up with the sun rising inCosta Rica Super beautiful.
This was the beginning of whatwould be something akin to a

(32:00):
kundalini awakening that lastedfor three weeks.
But in that initial phase itwas like all these creative
ideas because, remember, I'm,I'm basically a creative that's
been taken on this wacky pathAll these creative ideas are
just like going through me rapidfire.
And then, all of a sudden, therewas one creative I won't even

(32:22):
call it an idea, idea, becauseit felt very like
Nostradamus-ish, you know, likeit was just like almost like
this monument that was tellingme not what I might do, but what
I was going to do, whether Iwanted to or not.
Like it was just destiny that Iwould write a book through the
lens of my body.
Now, at the time, I thought,okay, well, that doesn't.

(32:43):
I thought, okay, well, thatdoesn't entirely make sense.
Okay, yes, I'm a non-monogamousperson, I've experienced tons
of group sex, you know, I've hada very body-based life and, yes
, I'm doing some psychedelics inorder to have this path.
But it doesn't quite make sense.
And then I came home and foundout I had cancer again, and that
became the third body-basedthing, and so I started writing

(33:07):
my second book then.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
It started out being a soup.
Now it's kind of like a diary.
I don't know how it ends yet,but I'm just so again, it didn't
feel uh, how should I?
So that that's like the mainthing that I need to do amongst
the other stuff that I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
So that's like the main thing that I need to do
amongst the other stuff that I'mdoing.
I love your brain.
It just makes my brain feellike someone else is also wacky
and out there doing so manythings.
I love it.
I love it.
I'm like my people.

(33:46):
I know for myself as being onthe other side of losing my dad
last year to cancer and like itwent away, his prostate cancer
spread to his bones and it wasjust such a quick decline and I
feel like he navigated a lot ofit in silence because of just
pride and who he is.
And the last conversation I didhave with him was the week
before he died.
It was like right before I wentto travel and it was the first

(34:07):
time he responded differently toa question I'd asked many times
are you scared?
And he said yes, and that's forme.
I knew that he had already hadthat conversation with self,
that it was coming, or like theacknowledgement of self that he
was going to die the followingweek.
Did you navigate all of this insilence or did you lean into

(34:31):
community?

Speaker 2 (34:35):
You know.
So it's two journeys.
So when I had it the first timefor a while, I was just so
devastated.
And the person that I wasdating although I'm grateful to
him for basically saving my lifehe grew up in Jamaica and his
whole life was way harder thanmine has ever been, and so to me

(34:56):
he's just like you're going tobe fine.
So I didn't really and I wantedsomebody to I really didn't
have the comfort initially.
I remember the first person Itold, or one of the first people
I told, was the guy who givesme my contacts.
What is that?
It's not an ophthalmologist,it's an optometrist, right?

(35:18):
And I was just picking up mycontacts or something, and I
just decided to tell him and hegoes who's your, who's your
oncologist?
No, that's the one that givesyou the chemo Oncological
surgeon.
Those words are so hard.

(35:45):
I know there's like.
I know I didn't know this shiteither until the last couple of
years and I said Dr Lin.
And he goes oh, dr Lin is myneighbor, you're going to be
fine, he's a wonderful doctor.
My aunt went to him.
She's fine now, you're going tobe fine Now.
What's the fucking chance ofthat?

Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's crazy like why ?

Speaker 2 (36:07):
yeah, I mean like you're, you're saying, hi, you
know another wacky.
So I mean, honestly, I havebeen science-based most of my
life.
I I have been spock like, like,you know, spock like and
intellectual to a fault allthrough my 30s.
And again, if 30 year old mesaw me now she'd be like, oh so
you went wackadoodle, all right,right, great, you know, like,
honestly, you know.
But this is the kind of shitthat keeps happening in my life,

(36:30):
you know, since we're.
So that was the beginning of mestarting to talk to different
people and it just kind ofbroadened as I got kind of used
to the how do you get used tocancer.
But I mean, as I started toshore myself up enough, then I

(36:50):
could kind of open up.
And the more I opened up thenthe more support.
And it created this positivefeedback loop where you get
stronger the more you tellpeople that are good anchors.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
But at first I was just so devastated and fragile I
just telling anybody was toohard at first yeah, how did you
balance a very giving job asworking in mental health and
having your body doing all this,because our work does affect
our bodies, like some days I'mlike, oh, don't touch me, don't

(37:22):
talk to me, don't look at.
So how did you navigate all ofthat happening at one time?

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well, well, first off , this is a little broader, but
I didn't tell any of my clientsthe first time or the second
time until I was completely fine.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
You're like, by the way, had cancer.
Good, so anyway not quite that.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
I would use a whole session for them to just like
process, you know, and I slowand I put a little check next to
the name of the person until Itold everybody, uh, that was a
client at that particular time.
Um, so you know, that was.
That was the first thing youwere saying.
How did I take care of my body?
Is that the question?
Again, I've been working out atthe gym since my 20s, so, you

(38:10):
know, as long as I, I, you know,and Pierre was like as soon as
you can walk, try and do it,don't push yourself too much,
but it allows your lymphaticsystem to kick in and you will
heal quicker if you get outthere and start walking as soon
as you can.
And so I did that without youknow.
Again, I didn't hurt myself,but so there was, there was,

(38:32):
that is, is far, I believe.
You know, when you think aboutbeing a trauma therapist, you
process and then you resource,you pendulate, and so I do that
in life allow myself to cry andthen I pendulate towards
positivity.

(38:54):
Deepak Chopra says that, and Iwasn't trying to do this, but I
think there's some wisdom inthis.
He said if you want spontaneoushealing, that wasn't what I was
trying to do.
If you want spontaneous healing, he says, create a state in
your body that feels like beingin love, and so I was just
trying to have the best positiveoutcome right, and so, starting

(39:20):
back in 2019, I use that adviceis next time around too.
I tried to be in the mostloving state and that creates
neurochemical changes in thebody.
It's going to reduce yourcortisol, it's going to amplify
your positive neurochemicals,like all you know.
Your body's going to relax.
Your immune system is probablygoing to go up.
I'm not a doctor, but I meanyou can Google this stuff Like

(39:43):
the more you put yourself in apositive frame of mind, the more
you can amplify your chance ofmoving through something Again
pendulating.
I'd let myself cry.
It wasn't like I was stuffingor being little Miss Positive
pants, you know, and I justmoved through those two places
and that was a very body-basedexperience.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Is there anything that you wish you knew?
That now you know about canceror psychedelics and support?
Like I know you've known aboutpsychedelics, but like how they
heal or support.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, I mean honestly everything.
There are there.
There are things that part ofme wishes that.
I mean honestly everything.
There are there.
There are things that part ofme wishes that.
I know a lot of things I endedup knowing when I needed to know
them, and if I had knowneverything all at once, I
probably would have burst intoflames.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, no, the overwhelm of it.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
You're like ah yeah, and so, as things unfolded, I
think and I don't even think, Idon't even know if you can undo
something like this I think justthe experience of having cancer
, like I said, is so crazy.
Making where they're likeyou're going to die.
Nope, you're probably not goingto die.
You know you're probably goingto have to do everything chemo,

(41:02):
radiation, immunotherapy as acocktail all at once.
You know, and then all of asudden, sorry, never mind
scratch, that we're not doingany of that.
You know, like I wish it wasn'tso crazy making, even when you
have the very best doctors andexpensive insurance.
Um, I think my wishes forrelated to cancer are not for me

(41:24):
but for other people, like, forinstance, last year.
One thing that I didn't know isthat with my insurance that's
decent insurance they werehooking me up with pretty good
cancer doctors when I was justlooking for a surgeon as soon as

(41:47):
I might need oncology.
All of a sudden they want,wanted to send me to this
horrible place and I found outand this is important for
everybody to know is thatbecause oncology, chemo etc.
Is so expensive that aninsurance company that would
normally give you a good surgeonmight give you a place that you

(42:09):
could go to die when it comesto oncology.
And I literally said to myoncologist so basically what I
did was when I needed anoncologist, luckily it was
during open enrollment, so Ijust paid his full fee in
December, which was like over$500 for one session and then

(42:32):
crazy expensive and then Iswitched over to a different
insurance that accepted him andcome January 1, I saw him and I
told him.
I said I'll be frank with you.
I feel like if I had stayedwith the oncology clinic they
wanted to send me to, I mighthave died.
And he said I hate to tell you,but I agree with you.

(42:52):
It's like there is a hierarchywhen it comes to oncology.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
And it's like it's those kind of thing.
If I could wish anything, Iwould just wish that everybody
could get good treatment.
And, and you know, it's likewhen I think about jaya's I
don't know if you know anythingabout jaya's partners.
Um, you know, for folks thatdon't know, jaya is like one of

(43:21):
the most well-known sex positivetherapists or not.
She's's not therapists, butleaders.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
She created the rock blueprints.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, right.
And so last year both of herlong-term partners of over a
decade both got cancer.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
No Wow.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
But the first one.
They're so wealthy I'm surethey're millionaires.
I'm guessing, based on thehouse that I've seen.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I'll accept this.
Yes, I'll receive it.
I said I'll receive that withyou.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I mean regardless.
They're very, very wealthy.
John, one of our two partnerswas to uh get this type of
treatment where they literallyreplicate your dna and feed it
back to you they're wealthyright, yeah, I was like yes
right and he was supposed to diein two months.

(44:18):
But once he got that treatmentand it was horrific but I didn't
even know that was an option.
Yeah, and I'm not telling youabout the whole thing.
That's an aspect where theytake your DNA and they replicate
.
There's all kinds of crazy wildthings that you have to do Not
in my tax bracket Nor mine, andyou know.

(44:39):
And so he did it.
It was horrific, it was hard,and now he's in remission, he's
fine.
You know, it was hard and nowhe's in remission and he's fine,
you know.
And so when people are like, oh, cancer can come for everybody,
and it's like, yeah, butwhether you survive or not
definitely has a bearing on whatyou have access to, and I wish
I could change that.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Absolutely, Absolutely.
When you were choosing thepsychedelics that you were using
, and if someone is listeningand they're like there's so many
things, what should I do?
Like, what did you do to chooseyours, To choose whatever kind
of psychedelics you did utilize?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I mean I'm lucky because I'm in circles with what
I believe are some of the besttherapists in LA, sure, you know
.
And so as far as Costa Ricagoes, you know that was a
retreat center.
I just got on Google andresearched what are the top

(45:39):
retreat centers in Costa Rica,because that's where I wanted to
go for this particularpsychedelic and I pulled up to.
I looked at the reviews.
It looked like the one that Iwent to was way more focused on
smaller groups and more intimatethan the other one, and so
that's why I chose it.
And you know, and then therewas some other synchronicity

(46:03):
that happened within 24 hoursthat backed that decision.
So that was that one.
There have been people that I'vegone to that are
psychotherapists, that it's beenthrough word of mouth within my
community.
So I know I'm going to the veryvery best within my community.
So I know I'm going to the veryvery best.

(46:23):
Yeah, so I would just say toask around and you know, and a
lot of people do know this, butI would say set and setting.
You know, set and setting iseverything so many people do
psychedelics and they're not inthe right mindset or they don't
have the right environment andthat can completely shift your
experience.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yes, yeah, I think that's so important.
Whenever I have been on ajourney or whatnot, I've like
set the mood.
People are like no, no, no,there's pillows.
I want to have everythingthat's near me, that's
comfortable.
Maybe I want art supplies nearme, I don't know, I want to.
Maybe I want art supplies nearme, I don't know.
I want to have these littleareas that allow me to do what I

(47:02):
need.
So that that means so much tome, to for folks to know that.
I think it's so importantbecause people, just people,
take things recreationally and Iaccept that and I say do what
you need to do, but but ifyou're going to do it in an
intentional way, be intentional.
That is what I will say.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, and certainly there's folks that have sex on
psychedelics.
But you know, I sometimes I canbe like mom, you know, like you
know a mom to my clients, etcetera.
It's like I just hear so manystories of people how should I
say?
They become non-monogamous,they want to be cool, you know,

(47:43):
cool poly, and so they're like,oh well, if I do this drug, then
I'll be okay with having sexwith this person.
And then later on they come tome to do EMDR to move through
the trauma, because they realizein hindsight that it was not.
They said yes, but it wasn't atrue yes, and so then they feel
traumatized, and so that'sanother thing that I would say

(48:04):
is like I kind of steer awayfrom the concept of pairing
psychedelics and sex unless youknow before you even do it that
the person that you're doing itwith is a true yes, that makes a
lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
What brings you joy?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
You know, like last year, especially when I was
going through the period where Iwasn't sure if I was going to
live, I was just like all aboutjoy, and now I have it narrowed
down to realizing that what Ireally love is a division of joy
which is wonder, go on, youknow.
So it goes back to some of thewacky things that I've told you
about, like these things that,even though it makes me wonder,

(48:44):
I'm like okay, crazy, isn't agood look for a psychotherapist,
you know, but the things thathave happened, that are so
wondrous and beautiful, make meso happy, even though I'm blown
away and scratching my head.
You know, like, what happenedin that journey, especially in

(49:07):
the second hour, where I feltlike I was connected to the
divine and part of the divine,that was so wondrous, it was, it
was ecstatic, which, to me, inthat experience, it it was.
I've had sex with porn stars,I've had amazing orgies, you
know, I've, like, done all thethings and, honestly, on an

(49:27):
erotic standpoint, that wasbetter than any of that and it
was wondrous, you know, andthat's saying something you're
like I've been outside, but thatwas even better, yeah.
Yeah, I mean I've had the kindof sex life that would make a
busload of nuns.
It's true Swim, you know Right,but some of those experiences

(49:51):
have been one more wondrous andmore sensual than than all of
that, you know, and that justbrings me a lot of happiness.
But sometimes, sometimes,wonder is in the small things.
I mean, that's one of thethings that my mom taught me.
We'd go on a walk in nature andshe'd be like look at how the
sun shines through this leaf,look at how they interact with

(50:12):
each other.
And you know, I mean that's onejourney that I had just a
couple of months ago and itsounds like I'm doing
psychedelics all the time.
I don't.
I've actually done it very,very sparingly.
I've done well.
I'm not going to list thedifferent types, but it's been
very, very sparingly.
But in that journey I sawsomething that I could barely,

(50:36):
you know, make sense of, youknow, you know, make sense of.
And I went home and I waswatching a movie on psychedelics
and they were talking aboutIndra's net of jewels, and you
can Google it and the metaphorof Indra's net of jewels is is
like, if you imagine, like, say,a spider web or something, and
there's like a dew drop orthere's a jewel, and the spider

(50:56):
web is part of the universe, butinside of that jewel or that
dew drop is the universe, it'sthe concept that there's a
greater in universe, but theneven in a leaf is a whole
universe.
So to speak, and so I thinkthat's part of how I see wonder
that even if I got to a placewhere I couldn't travel to
different places, that there'swonder just in the little

(51:20):
ladybug that's going by.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
This is such a fun convo, I feel.
So you and I have talked aboutthese things of course, not here
and I remember one of thejourneys that I had I was, I
always talk to it I'm like sowhat am I doing?
Is this who I'm supposed to belike?
Am I moving in the rightdirection, or whatever.
And I remember it was during thepandemic and I looked to my

(51:47):
right and it was like my closetdoor opened and all of these
women it was just a line ofblack women that came out, some
that I knew and some that I hadseen, photos, whatever and it
was just like the women of myfamily.
And it was just like you'resupposed to do this.
You're supposed to use thismedicine to help other black

(52:14):
women have a great day.
We love you, we're proud of you.
And I just sobbed for that kindof affirmation, that kind of
connection, that kind of noone's going to believe this.
And I'll tell people andthey'll be like sure it happened
.
And it's when you have thosekind of moments it's like, okay,
cool.
But now it's like years later,and I'm like, after
conversations with you and likehaving conversation, I was like

(52:37):
it's coming.
Like it's coming, like it'scoming, and it's interesting
when you feel the thing shiftinto place.
Did you feel something justshift into place for you, when
you're like, okay, time to dothis next training, like I know
what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean again with thesynchronicity.
I'll give you another example.
There's the synchronicity.
I'll give you another example.
There's more synchronicity withcertain people, with Pierre and
my friend Jenna.
Jenna's pretty high up in thepsychedelic movement.
I'll just give you an example.

(53:13):
So I decided to go to thepsychedelic science convention
last year and this was while Ihad cancer.
It's a crazy pants, some of thethings I did while I had cancer
.
Flew to Denver while I hadcancer.
This is so crazy pants Some ofthe things I did while I had
cancer.
Um, flew to Denver.
Um, I was taking that classwith fluence.
So this conference was thebiggest psychedelic conference
in the history of the world in2023, massive amount of people

(53:34):
there.
I show up, I check in.
Within 10 minutes I run intoJenna and there's a guy from my
fluence class who had said inthe class oh, come to the main
area.
Chakruna will be there, I'll bedoing Rappe and stuff like that
.
When I get to the conference, Irun into Jenna within 30

(53:56):
seconds.
She's like hi, do you want togo to the chakruna tent and do
rapping?
She didn't even know about thisother guy.
So it's just stuff like that,where it's just like what is the
freaking chance of that?
That is crazy pants.
And it's just like when Inoticed that really tight
synchronicity, I'm like, okay,I'm supposed to do this and I
just keep following, followingthose things.

(54:19):
I'm not the kind of person thatsees a hummingbird and goes, oh
, it's a hummingbird, that's asign.
No, dude, there's a millionhummingbirds in LA, there's a
million hummingbirds in LA.
I'm not that person.
I'm talking about this weirdstuff where you're just like
what is the?

Speaker 1 (54:33):
freaking, undeniable, You're like well okay.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, I don't know what it means, I don't know why
it happens.
I just noticed that when itthere's, if when I'm off track,
it's like nothing works, andwhen I'm on track, this is the
kind of stuff that happens.
It's you know, and so that'skind of how I know, and then I
just kind of follow my nose.
What do you want to?

Speaker 1 (54:59):
achieve before the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Ah, 2024.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yep, it's been a, it's been a time.
We've got some months left.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Uh yeah, I don't.
I, you know, I think I justfinished my certificate, you
know, and so the ketaminecertificate won't be done, my
book won't be done.
So I'm kind of in the middle ofa whole bunch of stuff.
I don't think there's anythingthat's going to be done by the
end of 2024.
I'll be kind of like in themiddle of a whole bunch of stuff
, which is okay.

(55:33):
It's okay to be in the middle.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
I'm a runaway person.
That sounds crazy.
Let me fix that.
I like to go away on vacations.
Um how do you take care ofyourself now, like, do you need
time away, do you need time withpeople?
Like, what recharges Kate?

Speaker 2 (55:53):
All right, so now I can answer your first question,
cause I didn't, so I'm answeringboth questions.
Um, so one thing that will bedone is my trip to Thailand and
Cambodia and again, if youraudience doesn't think I'm kooky
already now I'm going to, sonow they're going to think I'm
even more kooky.
Okay, so in the second journeyin Costa Rica, I saw this image

(56:18):
in the journey that looked kindof like Indiana Jones in the
Temple of Doom, you know, kindof like there was these faces,
it was like green moss, but itlooked like it was underwater
and they were talking, but Icouldn't hear the words and it
looked very specific.
I came home months later.
I'm just looking at YouTubevideos and I see anchor what,

(56:38):
which I videos, and I see anchorwhat, which I've never heard of
anchor what it's actually like.
It's.
It's now considered one of thetop 10 world wonders.
It's so crazy that people don'tknow about it and I didn't know
about it.
It's like I might have thisquote slightly wrong, but it's
like the, the, the biggestreligious temple in the world.

(57:01):
You can Google it, it's like thebiggest religious temple in the
world.
You can Google it.
It's like there's huge NationalGeographic things.
I'll send you something on it,anyway.
So I'm watching it and I'm like, holy shit, that's what I saw
in the second journey.
I'm like, all right, I'm justgoing to go there.
And so, yeah, bought a ticketto Cambodia and Thailand, go in

(57:21):
there in November.
That trip will be done and partof that trip is going to be in
the jungle of Cardamon Mountains.
That sounds wild.
Yeah, it's gonna be pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Are you going by yourself?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I am going with a group called G Adventures.
It's really good for women.
So if you are a woman andyou're, you don't have a buddy
to go with you, but you want agroup, you can go with G
Adventures and meet up with themand you'll be with a group and
it's usually mostly women, butany gender can go.
So I'm going with them.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
As we wrap up, something that always is a
conversation for me aroundtrauma and bodies and things is
safety.
When you were navigating thelast three years, what did
safety feel like for you?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
What did safety feel like?
I think it would depend on thehour.
Um, I think Pierre felt likesafety.
Uh, and that's another wildstory he came into my life in
2016, just showed up in my DMS.
We dated for a bit.
Um, if I knew that a thoraciconcological surgeon, a cancer

(58:41):
doctor, was going to show up inmy year in my DMS, two years
after I got cancer, I mean again, this is all crazy pants, but
he was there throughout thefirst and the second journey.
He would check in on me everyday, whether I was having a good
day or a bad day, whether Isaid I don't, I don't need
anything, pierre, it's just likehe was always there.

(59:03):
How are you doing, kate?
How's today?
Like, and it's just, he's justa freaking angel, just a
freaking angel.
Um, I can get emotional aboutthat.
Um, and just all my friends,yeah, and and city of hope.
City of hope is a lot of angelsat city of hope.

(59:26):
I couldn't speak.
I mean, they're, they'refreaking, amazing, just a whole
team.
Um, and, being in california,we're so blessed to be in
California it's like, yeah.
I feel somewhere else.
I felt so less safe in theSouth, I feel so much safer in
California.
Um yeah, I could go on, butthose are a few.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Okay, well, I think this has been such a explorative
conversation for me, like Ithink I have such a a better
understanding and I am soappreciative of you, um, for
sharing this journey, and alsolike opening my eyes to things
that I think my dad was goingthrough, that I didn't have an
understanding of, um, so Ididn't know that was going to be

(01:00:14):
a thing.
So thank you, um.
Since we do talk about such funthings I think we're talking
about.
Trauma is fun and hard things,you know, but since we do, I
always like to end the show on afun, nosy tip.
What is the wildest thingsomeone has texted, emailed or
DMed you in the last two weeks?

(01:00:35):
Wildest relative, and if you'relike I don't have anything for
two weeks, whatever, just thewildest thing someone's been
sliding to you these days.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Um, you know, uh, just on a daily basis, I hear so
many wild different thingsbecause my clients are like
kinky, non-monogamous sexworkers, you know, just on a
daily basis.
And then my girlfriends are sexworkers and and and and all
that.
Honestly, a lot of things aboutsex.
Don't knock me on my buttanymore.
Honestly, I'm like Okay yeah,I've seen it done it like in my

(01:01:09):
friends have seen it done itlike we still talk about sex,
our humors around sex, all ofthat.
But it's honestly this world ofpsychedelics that like floors
me, like just in the last coupleof I mean just recently people
have been talking about and thisisn't a happy thing, but well,
it depends.
So some people that havepsychedelic experiences

(01:01:31):
experience what they callentities and it can, I think you
know, a lot of times it showsup as as ancestors like you
experienced.
Or the first thing that I sawwas an iridescent blue bear with
masculine energy that likehelped me through a hard time in
a journey, you know.
But sometimes people experiencethings that they call entities

(01:01:53):
and there's been people thatfeel like they're being stalked
by these entities that theyconnect with in psychedelic
journeys.
Yeah, you know one thing thatis so that that gets super scary
.
When I talked to one of myfriends high up in the
psychedelic movement, she saidthat is super duper rare.
She said in general and I askedher like how do you contend

(01:02:17):
with that?
And she said the same way youdo in life, like if you're in
line at Gelson's and somebody'sgetting in your space bubble you
.
You might just say hey, dude,you're giving me a little space
please, you know.
Or if a friend is too far up inyour grill, you might just say
can you please move back?
I just feel a littleclaustrophobic.

(01:02:38):
You know, she said it's thesame thing.
You just ask them to move back.
And they will, like you set aboundary and for the most part,
if you're in a good place, theythey move back.
So, again, like, all this stuffsounds so crazy, but a lot of

(01:02:59):
people in the psychedelicmovement that are
psychotherapists or leaders aretalking about this stuff, and so
it's.
It's, it sounds crazy, but youcan find books on the topic, all
kinds of stuff, and so I yeah,I'm still blown away by topics
like that.
I'm just like how, what hashappened to my life?
What is going on in my freaking?

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
life Expansiveness you are expansive.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Yeah, yeah, like this little girl that used to have a
crush on Spock, you know, andit was so up in her head.
And now my life is spiritualand psychedelic and expansive.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Who, knew I love it for you.
Where can he, she, they, them,zz and everyone?
Where can they find you?
Where can they find your work?
Where can they get in yourbusiness?
Where can they do all of that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Well, my way, my website is just my name.
Well, my website is just myname kateloreecom.
So that's K-A-T-E, last nameL-O-R-E-E.
I also have a podcast calledOpen Deeply, and in fact, you
referenced it when you weretalking about your ancestors.
There's a couple of episodeswith you on Open Deeply where
you talk about all that and muchmore, so I'd invite people to

(01:04:17):
check out those episodes on opendeeply.
I'm also, you know, oninstagram, open deeply with kate
larie.
That's a mouthful.
Uh, that's probably the bestplace to find me.
I'm kind of lame about doingtiktok videos.
It takes so much I don't have,it's a lot yeah, I'm on facebook
and all that, but those are the.

(01:04:37):
And then there's also my book.
Open deeply if you're intonon-monogamy, it's it's.
Some people call it a harmreduction manual.
It's um, uh, unlike some, likepoly secure is is more just
about attachment theory.
My book like hits a lot ofdifferent things attachment
theory, communication skills.
I give a million differentvignettes.

(01:04:59):
I talk about the most commonthings that happen in my
practice and a lot of people.
The main thing I get frompeople is people saying it felt
like you were talking about myrelationship.
It felt so close to home.
And I always say back I'm likeyeah, because your experience is
like a lot of people'sexperience.

(01:05:20):
But people don't say that atthe party when they're you know,
yeah, so it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
You give us so many good gems, so I'm just so, I
just feel very revived from thisconversation today.
So thank you for being here,thank you for sharing with us.
Is there anything?

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
you'd like to say before.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yeah, please, is there anything else you'd like
to say before we say goodbye?

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
I guess I just want to thank well, thank you for
having me on, but thank you forthe work you do in, you know,
related to trauma.
I think you reach a whole otherdemographic of folks that might
not find resources otherwiseand that's such a freaking
blessing.
You know there's a lot of folksout there that might not get

(01:06:10):
help if it weren't for you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
It's chaotic and Gemini-like Welcome yeah, so All
right y'all before I startcrying.
Yeah.
So All right y'all Before Istart crying cause feelings
until next time, I'm just goingto wrap it Alrighty.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Thank you so much.