October 16, 2025 • 50 mins
Episode 60 | October 16th, 2025
Hello, hello, Soulful Seekers! Welcome back to Trauma & Transcendence.
In this week’s episode of Trauma & Transcendence, host Amanda M. Dodd sits down with Dale Turnbull, a Metaphors of Movement Coach and Trainer whose work bridges psychology, symbolism, and transformation. Dale’s unique approach reveals the hidden metaphors running our lives—and how, by exploring them consciously, we can find new movement, direction, and personal freedom.
Dale brings over 12 years of experience in personal development, NLP, hypnosis, IEMT, and Provocative Change Works, blending practical insight with deep unconscious exploration. “For a long time,” Dale admits, “I struggled to look at myself honestly. It felt painful, so I avoided it. But when I found Metaphors of Movement, it gave me a way to explore my inner world safely and curiously.”
Amanda and Dale dive into the fascinating world of metaphorical communication—how the language we use every day (“I feel stuck,” “I’m hitting a wall,” “I’m in a dark place”) is actually revealing unconscious maps of our experience.
Together, they unpack how Metaphors of Movement connects conscious and unconscious realities, helping people understand themselves without needing to interpret or analyze their emotions. This approach is neutral, non-confrontational, and deeply revealing—especially for those healing from trauma or seeking to reconnect with their inner world.
Amanda shares her own experience working with Dale on money and self-worth metaphors: “It was incredible how quickly my internal world became visible—almost like my subconscious painted it right in front of me. It wasn’t hours of talk therapy. It was fast, clear, and surprisingly emotional.”
Dale describes how metaphors also influence hypnosis, dreams, and even how we perceive change. “If a client says they’re in a box,” he says, “and then later that box has a window or a door, that’s real movement in their unconscious. It shows progress, without us needing to force meaning.”
For those curious to explore their own inner metaphors, Dale offers free demos and Metaphors of Movement Level 1 & 2 Trainings, available online at metaphorsofmovement.us. His students range from hypnotists and therapists to spiritual seekers and those simply wanting more self-awareness.
- How metaphors bridge the spiritual and psychological
- Why awareness can be both a gift and a challenge
- The connection between language, energy, and embodiment
- How letting go of old “stories” creates space for healing
For anyone feeling stuck, searching for deeper understanding, or looking for a new way to communicate with their unconscious mind, this episode offers a truly transformative lens.
“When someone says, ‘I’m stuck,’” Dale explains, “that could mean they’re in quicksand, behind a wall, or being held back. Each version of ‘stuck’ means something different. When we see that clearly, we can finally move again.”
As the conversation unfolds, Amanda and Dale also touch on: Ultimately, Dale leaves listeners with this reflection:
“Life is yours. Have fun, enjoy it, and keep taking steps.”
https://www.healingbeyondtrauma.com/blog/daleturnbull
Dale Turnbull
🌐 Website: www.metaphorsofmovement.us
📧 Email: dale@dttrainingandcoaching.com
📚 YouTube: Metaphors of Movement USA & Friends
Course: Metaphors of Movement Levels 1 & 2 Training
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, hello soulful seekers. Welcome back to Trauma and
Transcendence. Today's guest is a little bit
different, but I think he has immense value.
I've recently had an experience with him and it's been very
eventful and quite the exploration for myself.
And you know that if something catches my attention, then very
(00:21):
likely it's worth yours. Today I have the wonderful Dale
Turnbull. Dale, thank you so much for
being here. Thank you so much for having me.
Pleasure to be on board. And so today we're going to talk
about a couple of things, largely metaphors of movement.
What is that all about? So that's actually quite a
(00:43):
challenging question because a lot of time when you think about
metaphors, people are like, whatwould you mean?
You're talking storytelling? What is the whole thing all
about? Now, I first got interested in
metaphors when I studied neurolinguistic programming.
For those of you who don't know,it is a basically way of mapping
how we think, what's the structure of our thoughts, how
(01:04):
we create our problems, how we create our resources and how we
can switch those things up. And it was then I got into
trainings. I heard beautiful stories that
encaptionated the senses and really take you on a journey
into something magical. And, and I always sort of
understood that there is a real power in stories.
And we say metaphorical communication all the time.
(01:26):
I was working with a woman when I was doing a lot of corporate
work. And she's like, it's like, I've
got this, this thing in my throat.
I'm like, well, what's that like?
And she's like, it's like a spiky ball.
And she's like, yeah, it's quitepainful.
So we actually, well, I'm like, well, why don't we just take it
out, shave off those spikes, make it smaller and throw it
into the distance and what happens?
And, and her whole throat changed.
And I'm like, that's interesting.
(01:47):
So it got me really curious about the metaphors and the
communication that we use in everyday life and everyday
speech and how we can actually learn and understand more about
ourselves. But if you're a coach,
therapist, hypnotist, also aboutour clients at a very deep
unconscious level that we don't often realise.
(02:09):
I came across metaphors of movement, which I now train,
teach, coach, mentor people in. And it's a whole new way of
working with yourself and with others that I find really quite
interesting and intriguing. And yeah, it creates great
awareness and empowers us to understand ourselves a lot, lot
better. So I've seen a rather large
(02:30):
overlap with a lot of people in the hypnosis community, a lot of
people coaching and NLP doing metaphors of movement.
But who else might like to trainin that and take that on as a
modality? So ultimately the when I think
about the unconscious, the unconscious mind, I mean, what
(02:51):
is it? Right?
Can you put your finger on it? No, it's a rather abstract
concept. So to make it sound a bit more
neurological, imagine we've got our conscious side of our brain.
It's not designed this way, but as a broad generalisation.
We've got the conscious part of our brain where we understand,
we know what's going on, we makeour logical decisions and then
we have our unconscious mind as the hypnotists would take you
(03:14):
down that road where you've got ultimately our bodily
sensations, what we're feeling, the images that come up to us.
An interesting example, right? I know you've got three dogs.
You're just showing me your beautiful pug who's resting
soundly. But if you picture a dog, any
dog, just get a picture of a dog.
You'll picture it in a certain place in your mind.
(03:35):
Now it could be in front of you,maybe to the slight left, slight
right, but ultimately you don't choose that it's coming out of
our unconscious. But one of the troubles with the
unconscious is, well, how do youunderstand something that you
don't, you're not consciously aware of?
Now, when people, for example, go into hypnosis, certain images
(03:56):
might come to them as they're taking on a journey.
When you, for example, do tarot,certain people might see things
within the symbolism. I've trained in shamanism, and
when you take someone on a shamanic drum, banging that
drum, it puts the person into this place, into this space
where they can explore a whole different aspect of their
(04:18):
reality. Now that can be great for
change, great for insight, but alot of the time we don't know
what the hell it means, you know, well, what does this stuff
mean? What do I do with that?
And what metaphors of movement does is it communicates what's
(04:38):
going on unconsciously to conscious awareness.
So as much as it's a homodality within itself, it can easily be
incorporated to any sort of modality that uses unconscious
or more spiritual or esoteric oror the ineffable stuff.
It allows us to understand it a more concrete level, which
harmonizes our understanding andI think actually makes us more
(05:01):
whole as an individual. Well, now you've convinced me
that I'd like to experience thisvia shamanic journey, so you
need to put that. I'll go through a bit of an
experience. I wanted to see how this worked.
Now I've done it, but I wanted to be void of the construct,
right? And so I have a friend of mine,
(05:22):
someone who helped train me. She did a journey with somebody
that she knows, and I got them to give me the feedback.
I didn't need to see the session, but I got to give me
their feedback. Now on the one hand, you've got
the practitioner's experience. So for example, when I did a
shamanic journey, I pictured a guy in a swamp in the middle of
(05:43):
this swamp. And when I did the healing or
whatever, we cleaned up the swamp, We did lots of stuff.
Now that was my experience as the practitioner that may
resonate with the client or not.And then you've got the client's
experience and what they realise, what they come through,
what energies move through them.There was a serpent and it moved
(06:05):
through all that kind of stuff. So I can communicate those two
messages. Now, the message that comes from
the person. So let's just imagine I have a
serpent inside me that's going around my lungs.
Let's imagine that. And then I just felt when you
did the drumming, when you did the chanting or whatever trip
you're on, it's sort of unwound.It sort of disappeared and it
(06:27):
went away. Now, what the hell does that
mean? I mean, it sounds quite
relieving that there was that change, but with the language I
can communicate in a way that's void of meaning.
But we understand and I'll give you 2 examples.
Now as a coach therapist, what Icould say is, OK, so there, I'm
trying to do this in the backwards way, but I'll give it
(06:48):
a go. So OK, there's a snake around
you constricting you and that means you don't have choices,
you don't have options. It means you can't express
yourself. And by removing that, we create
more choice, more possibility, more freedom.
OK, now all of those words we can interpret like love, great
(07:09):
word, but what love for you is different to love to me.
So ultimately we can argue aboutit.
And if you've ever had someone trying to understand your
experience and not get it, you, you know what that's like.
Think of it like this. So OK, so there's a snake
wrapping around your log. So ultimately you are
(07:30):
constricted, it could be said you find it hard to breathe and
there's something that's inside you that has a mind of its own,
a life of its own, and it could be seen maybe quite venomous,
quite toxic. But ultimately it's wrapped
around you, it's got a hold of you.
(07:51):
And that would stop you breathing or breathing in in a
way that works. Now ultimately what happened is
through the change, you expelledthat creature, that animal has
been removed from you. It might have been a bit of a
serpent's tongue to it, but thatthat could be my interpretation.
But older me, you're no longer constricted.
(08:12):
So you can breathe freely. Now, if you're just to listen to
that and imagine that was your situation, you, you can't argue
any of it because metaphors of movement teaches you how to
communicate in a way that is notme imposing meaning, but we both
know what these things mean without having to explain it.
(08:33):
So for me, it's really empowering because I get quote
UN quote triggered when people try and impose things on me.
I'm like, just go away. For those of you who are
hypnotists out there, people whomismatch, and for those who
don't know what mismatching is, it's those who always like to
find the example. Me and my wife love doing this
together, by the way, because we're both into personal
(08:53):
development and we're both trying to help each other grow.
So we always find the thing thatdoesn't work or always find the
thing wrong first. So it's obviously not the best
way to give feedback, but, but, but these kind of things and it
allows to really connect and help that person understand
their experience and what's happening for them.
Yeah. Having had my own experience
with it, and that was my first experience by the way, with
(09:15):
metaphors and movement, it was fantastic.
I loved how quickly my internal realms kind of came out and were
displayed before me on a canvas so that I could really get the
deeper meanings behind things. And it wasn't, it wasn't
difficult. It didn't take hours, it was
very fast. It was very poignant and in the
(09:38):
moment of where I was feeling through things.
So we actually worked on money specifically.
Are you still doing that research?
Yeah, so I train metaphors. So I teach coaches, therapists,
change workers or people who want to become more aware of
themselves, how to do this work.I actually offer free
demonstrations. There'll be a link somewhere.
But if you go to metaphors of movement dot US, Metaphors of
(10:01):
movement dot US at the bottom ofthe page.
There's an option for a free demo if you want to experience
this first hand. But so I teach people level 1
and 2, which allows them to practice on others as well as do
it themselves. But I'm moving into working with
more business and money. And I was doing some
explorations, which you kindly volunteered for to understand.
OK, what are the overarching structures around money that
(10:25):
impact our lives? And it's really quite
fascinating. So some people have, you've
probably heard this out there. Money is energy, but what does
that mean? Well, that means in theory money
is all around us. So the opportunity for money is
all around us. But it's also not tangible
because you can't normally grab energy.
(10:46):
You can get a sense of energy, you can feel energy, but that's
quite different. I had someone else who money was
a burden. So that's like they're carrying
this weight. Now just think for a moment, is
that person going to want to be financially affluent?
Are they going to want to get more money?
Because if money is a burden, the more money they have, the
(11:09):
more of a way it becomes. So by understanding our
relationships to money, we can help to create shifts and
changes within that area. I know we're talking with you.
And like money and food was the same thing.
So it nourishes you, it feeds you.
But ultimately, if you don't have money, you've got this
(11:30):
whole feast and famine style thing.
So if you're really affluent or you're not, if you have a lot of
money, you can consume a lot of money unless you're careful and
balanced with your finances. How much do you need?
So looking at these things, we can figure out, OK, does this
work for me? Ultimately the problem or
(11:51):
challenge, for example, with thefood is money perspective.
If I give you bucket loads of money, it could potentially have
challenges for your health and well-being because you could
overindulge, for example. So we can look at different ways
of looking at these structures, but they're personalized to the
individual. Because I think one of my
challenges in personal development is I'll just follow
(12:14):
this process, just do this thing, just follow this
protocol. And like life is so much more
complicated. Protocols and processes
normally, from my experience at least, are generalisations of
what work with the majority of the populace.
But through the metaphors work Ido, I'll have a good option,
good choice, good variety. Every session is different.
(12:35):
Every session is unique because it's the person's unique
experience. And as much as it might be
similar, is never identical. I think I took part in one of
your groups a little while ago and I just got around to finally
catching the replay. I missed the live event.
I was so bummed. But it was beautiful to watch
because everybody had. Even though the group themes
were the same, everybody had a different experience, different
(12:59):
metaphors, different perspectives, different things
they were working through. 100% Well, well, let's just consider
this if you're a a viewer or listener.
So let's imagine a context wherelet's say you're stuck.
OK, stuck. What's that like now stuck?
For some people, it could be there's a barrier in front of
(13:19):
them. They can't move forward, they
can't progress. Some people might say it's like
I'm hitting my head against a brick wall.
That's how I'm stuck. Now if you're to imagine that as
an image, that's quite an interesting representation of
being stuck. Now some people might say it's
like I'm in quicksand. I'm stuck.
So there's two different ways ofsaying stuck, but the the, the
(13:39):
image of the representation is quite different.
Some people it's I'm stuck because I'm being held back.
Now. They all have pros and cons.
Now if I'm stuck with a barrier in front of me, I can't
progress. I can't move forward.
I can't see a way forward. If you imagine a wall.
But I'm also not considering other directions.
There might be a way that's right for me to go, a way that's
(14:00):
left for me to go, or I could take a step back.
The person in quicksand, by the way, Quicksand, everyone thinks
of quicksand from the movies. You take a step in it and you
sink right into it. You're like, quicksand takes an
age, a real age to really get stuck in it.
It takes a very freaking long time.
But people think, oh, but ultimately, think about it.
(14:23):
If your feet are in quicksand, there's going to be resistance
to move. Ultimately, it's going to take
effort to get out of it. So if you're not motivated
enough, if you're not driven enough, if you don't know where
you're going, But why bother doing the effort to get unstuck
if you don't know where you wantto go in the first place?
(14:43):
And it must have took effort to get there to begin with.
Yeah, or not paying attention towhere you were going in order to
get too stuck into it, right. And ultimately to get stuck in
quicksand, you normally need to move, struggle a bit, but
ultimately you're not actively trying to get out.
Now somebody for example, who's being held back, that's very
different because there's there's a whole interpersonal
(15:04):
dynamic. It could be someone's like got
you hooked on them with hooks orsomeone's like holding you back
with a rope. So there can be certain
attachments to things. So these certain things that
show up in everyday life, everyday communication, can be
really insightful. This also crosses over into
dreams. Like what do our dreams mean?
Well, dreams are messages from our unconscious messages, some
(15:27):
might say messages, some might say our unconscious processing,
but still it's unconscious information.
And if we know how to communicate that information, we
can get real insight in our waking lives about what the
dream is communicating to us, but without interpreting it and
(15:47):
not saying, well, this could mean that, well, we're just
communicating what's going on. So it could be quite powerful
that. Well, what got you started into
the realms of metaphors of movement?
So, I mean, I've always loved metaphors, just the idea of
metaphors. There's a book by, I want to say
David Gorman. David Gorman, I believe it's
called Therapeutic Metaphors. It was the first metaphors book
(16:09):
that I read when I after I studied NLP and it was more
about storytelling. And for me, I've always been
interested in, OK, so what's thedifference that makes the
difference? I really enjoyed Neuro
Linguistic Programming because it's about, OK, how is the
individual structuring the problem so we can start to
change and shift that. After that I got into something
(16:31):
called Provocative Change Works,which is really great.
It's by a gentleman called Nick Kemp, inspired by Provocative
Therapy from Frank Farrelly. How that works is really
interesting because it's a conversational model, but it's
really about stretching the person's perception of their
reality in a, in a friendly way,but also quite a provocative and
(16:51):
challenging way. From there.
I heard about the metaphors of movement because it's like, oh,
metaphors 2. It was recommended by someone
like yourself who's an authoritywithin the space.
They're like, you need to join this course.
You need to take this course. So I just, I just jumped
straight in and I didn't even know 100% what it was all about,
but it sounded awesome. So I'm like, why not?
(17:13):
From there, it really gave me a whole new way of seeing things.
And, and I think for those interested in personal
development or therapy, interested in therapy, I mean,
if you're taking it, you might not be interested in it, but if
you're doing therapy or whatever, I find there's two
different people in personal development.
They're either people who love working on themselves or there
(17:36):
are people who are really good at working with others.
I was always very good at working with others, but I, I, I
really struggled to work. I remember my first NLP course
so I studied with John Grinder, the Co creator of NLP and when I
took the course I was like coming from a corporate
environment. I came in because I actually
(17:56):
wanted to enhance my communication to increase the
impact I was having with people on a more tailored level.
I'd say you've achieved that. Thank you.
And for me, I was like, why has everyone got so many freaking
issues? Because I was just so clueless
to my own potential issues. I was very good at being
(18:19):
ignorant. You know, awareness, awareness
is the key. Also sucks because you're aware
of all your challenges. But anyway, so I was aware.
I wasn't aware of how unaware I was because I came in with it
from a different angle. And ultimately for me, I
struggle with two things. I struggle personally to explain
(18:41):
what's going on with me. My wife will see me and she's
like, Dale, what's wrong? I'm like what?
She's like, you've been in a mess or in a state for the last
couple of hours. What's up?
I don't know. Now, I don't think she's
gaslighting me or saying I'm wrong, but she's pretty good at
this stuff. But I'm normally quite good at
keeping myself in the dark. I'm very good at keeping myself
(19:03):
blind to challenges or issues. It takes me quite a long time to
be unaware. To be thicker, and I'm not
saying that this was your experience, but people who have
trauma, that is often the case. They become numb to their
feelings or they've been in situations that have made them
feel so unsafe that they had to prioritize other people's needs,
(19:26):
wants before their own. So they become conditioned
essentially to not listen to those internal things happening.
So for those of you with trauma listening to this, really take
heed because this is going to bea wonderful tool for you to
possibly find and dig your way out and to start becoming a
little more present. Get into the exercise of, oh,
(19:46):
what is happening in the subconscious?
What am I not aware of? So this is what I just heard.
So thank you for sharing that, Amanda.
And she said, digging your way out.
Now let's just listen to that. So this is a phrase that Amanda
just said. She didn't think about it.
She just expressed it. So if you're somebody who likes
to dig deep, people who like to get to the root cause, normally
(20:11):
psychotherapists as well, peoplewho dig deep root cause, these
are your why people? Why is it the case?
But let's just imagine that, right?
Digging yourself out would implythat you're in something and
you're trying to dig yourself out.
Now, normally digging happens underground.
(20:33):
Sometimes you could dig across if it's a cable or whatever.
But if this person is digging down, if you ever had the person
who asked themselves why so much, they dig themselves into
it so deep, it's such a huge wayout that they're stuck.
Sometimes asking why too much can be a problem because we're
just digging and digging and digging.
(20:54):
Now, to dig yourself out impliesyou're putting the work in,
you're using your arms, you're trying to handle it, but
ultimately it might be building up behind you or to a different
side of you. But ultimately you're trying to
get out of something, dig your way up.
So it's stuff like that that cangive you so much insight into
what's actually going on with you, but but also with your
(21:15):
clients. Yeah, to really identify what
people are really feeling. 100% are all experiencing because
sometimes we might feel it's frustrating.
Well, what's that like? Well, it's like I'm digging, I'm
digging a hole. Well, I mean, it's of course
it's frustrating because why areyou digging?
Where are you trying to go? What are you trying to find?
(21:37):
I mean, are you digging for gold?
Like I found this gold thing, but now I've got to get on
surface, you know, how's that going to work?
So it's a really fascinating wayof these things that come up in
everyday communication. We talked about overcoming
trauma like the topic of your channel.
Now, if you think digging to thebottom of it is very different
(21:58):
to overcoming something because to overcome something, we've got
a few ways of looking at this. I'll just get over it.
That's one way. But how tall is the thing You've
got to get over? That could be one way.
Some people elevate themselves normally through knowledge,
learning skills like people offer on this sort of channel.
(22:20):
Some of the things that they share, they learn, they develop,
they grow their skills in order to overcome the issue.
But sometimes some issues are not overcome able.
So maybe you need to look at a different direction, go a
different way, explore a different route.
That's fascinating just how these things show up.
And because it, the unconscious is so expansed and this stuff,
(22:43):
this language comes from the unconscious.
I'm also still learning. I had a session the other day
where I learned amazing things because it was unique and
different to the person. So as much as I train this stuff
and I've experienced this stuff and I freaking love this stuff,
there's always more to learn. There's always more to explore.
Yeah, it's because you're reallygetting into that person's
(23:04):
internal representations for things, and we're all so vastly
different. We've had so many different
experiences that help us build those.
I think most people call it schemas, where we have certain
themes and representations of things.
It's really fascinating. I could imagine that you are
never bored I. Mean.
(23:24):
Yeah, because even in building aschema, what does that suggest?
They're a block. You put stuff in place, there's
maybe a concrete foundation. It's pretty solid, pretty
stable. It's not going anywhere because
it's. So these are thick, all of these
different things. So this can relate.
It's kind of like a periodic table and we occasionally get to
pull things out that don't fit anymore.
Could be an unstable elements don't work.
(23:47):
I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's really cool,
interesting elements, but also how that how chemistry, how the
different elements work together.
People talk about in personal development, the alchemy of
change, the alchemical process, these sort of reactions, how do
you react? Implies 2 different elements are
coming together. How different way of looking at
(24:09):
human interaction? So what does it look like when
somebody wants to book in and explore something with you?
And then you might speak to someof the things they might
explore. But from what I've seen it looks
like you can play with anything and learn a lot. 100% So I mean,
if, if you're curious to like learn and teach this work
(24:30):
normally it works two ways. People are like, wow, this is
awesome. Some people are a little bit,
I'm not so sure. And other people are like, this
just doesn't sound like it's forme.
Now for those of you coach, therapist or those keen to
learn, as I say, go to my website.
Happy to offer you a 330 minute session.
What we'll do on that is we'll we actually draw pretty
pictures. I mean, well, not necessarily
pretty. I'll give you an example.
(24:53):
So this this is a picture I drewearlier.
This is an. Inadvertent way to improve my
drawing skills. I mean, to be fair I have taken
but you don't need to be drawing.
So this is an example. So for people who've learnt the
modality, every two weeks I do practice with the whole
community, not just people who've learnt from me, but
learnt from other people. So this is somebody, they're in
(25:13):
a queue, they're carrying like afood tray and they're in line
for this sort of prison like food slop sort of thing.
This is what they're probably more challenges, like there's
some guards to the left, big open door and then there's other
prisoners to the left. So that's what we draw out.
Now you look at that and you're like, what is that?
That means nothing. And as I was saying before, I
(25:34):
struggled to look at myself and actually reflect and understand
my own experience. Now, I don't understand what
that means. What does that mean about me?
But I can start to think, OK, soultimately, you're just one in
the line. You're just you're a follower.
You're following the person in front could be said that you're
a bit of a prisoner. And they said the food was very
(25:56):
uninspiring. So ultimately what you're
looking forward to is very uninspiring.
It does keep you alive, but it'sjust a bit sloppy.
You don't really like it. But you're chained to this
because she was chained by her ankle.
She's in line, so she has to stay in line.
Like just from that, you start to get a bigger concept of
what's going on for that person.So that's what we would do in a
(26:20):
free demonstration. I draw pre picture now if you
want to work through a specific challenge issue, problem, that
could be relationship issues, itcould be finance work.
Ultimately this isn't a solutionbased methodology.
And what I mean by that is it's not like I've worked with people
with anger, with phobias, with multiple different things.
And I have fixed problems using just this.
(26:44):
However, sometimes in life things are going to get worse
before they get better. Herxheimer reaction.
That's how that goes. I mean, since they're leaving,
it's going to be uncomfortable. 100% I mean, for, for an
example, let's just imagine somebody wants to leave their
partner, that being with that partner regardless has certain
(27:07):
benefits, normally financial or whatever.
So by leaving that partner, there's financial hardship,
there's financial challenges, there's working harder, there's
logistics issues. So sometimes change is not
always positive, so people resist it because life's going
to get harder. I want you to make me feel
better about me leaving my significant other.
Now I can make them feel better,but the reality is their life is
(27:29):
going to suck harder in the shorter term.
So what this work does is it's very good at giving us an
understanding of our deeper reality, what's keeping us
start, what's blocking us and shaking those things up
ultimately. So you're thinking differently
about your challenges, you're acting differently about your
challenges, and so you can actually start to make progress
(27:50):
in many different areas of life.Now, things that I'll be very
explicit, I don't think this works for.
It's very, it's very young, Ian,isn't it?
Yeah. I mean, there's there's because
this is a representation of unconscious experience.
You've got archetypes in there, all different types of
archetypes. You've got for those of you who
(28:11):
do more esoteric things, you've got certain symbolism within
there. For those of you who've done
NLP, you've got meta programs inthere.
There's a multitude of differenttime representation that like
it's so densely packed, There's so many layers to it.
There's identity in there and how I have, for example, a guy
(28:34):
and he was so to his right was ajungle, to his left was a city,
and in front of him was a field.Now to think about it, right, if
he's to take a step in the rightdirection, it's going to be a
bit wild. Better be crazy.
But what does he need to go to be in the jungle?
Well, he needs a certain amount of resources.
He needs to be an adventurer. He needs to not be afraid.
There's a whole like there's a whole host of things.
(28:54):
Anyway, I could talk about the stuff for ages.
I may have gone off on a tangent.
Don't like going necessarily linear with this stuff.
Where were we at? We were talking about how it's
young in there's archetypes. Before that you were in a head
in a different direction. I disrupted you so sorry.
But it might not necessarily be the most pleasant.
(29:16):
So if you're just looking for lovely feelings, I'm not going
to promise that. But if you are looking for
change and insight in a very different way that I can
guarantee you. A lot of the coaches, the
therapists, the IEM tiers that you work with, do they then
follow up with hypnosis or IEMT as part of their own expression
of metaphors of movement? 100% so I actually, so there's a
(29:40):
woman called Lori Donnelly, she teaches IEMT integral eye
movement therapy here. One day I will get her on this
podcast. Really good, really good,
amazing work. And I joined one of her practice
sessions and what was interesting is so the client was
feeding back. So the person did an
intervention A and then they're like, well, what's it like now?
(30:01):
And they're like, well, it's like, I'm in a box.
Like, OK, so they did intervention again and they're
like, there's a box with a window and then invent box with
a window and the windows open, box with a door, box with a door
is open. So there was an interesting
progression. Actually on my YouTube and
Facebook channels, I'm going to be doing a video breakdown.
I do quite a lot of videos aboutthis stuff because I'm like, oh,
(30:22):
cool, interesting thing came up.Let's do a video on it.
If anything, it's slightly selfish because I find I learned
best by doing and talking about it.
So if I don't have someone to talk about it, I'll just make a
video, talk about it and get theinsight from it.
So selfish, but educational at the same time.
So I'm going to do a breakdown of that.
So what's interesting is you cansee how things shift and change.
(30:46):
Now, if you're doing hypnosis, here's an interesting question
for you. Or you've experienced hypnosis.
Why go to a beach? Because I enjoy the sensory
oven, I enjoy the the sun and the warmth and the sounds and
the smells. It's an atmosphere that brings
me a modicum of serenity. OK cool, so that's one way to
(31:07):
look at it. Why take someone to A room?
That room may have tools or things that they need.
They may need the security the the safety.
OK, cool. So this is where we can consider
it. On the one hand, if you're a
hypnotherapist, where do you take your clients on your
journey? And I'll break those down in a
minute. Or you've got what does a client
(31:31):
tell you in hypnosis? So let's come to journeys first.
So let's just imagine a hypnotherapist is taking you to
a beach. OK, well ultimately it's an
interesting place from a hypnotic perspective, multi
sensory, easy to take someone into trance, but ultimately
you're in a place that's very sure.
Now ultimately things come, theygo.
(31:54):
There's a reliability to it because sure, it's normally
changed twice a day at least depending on where you're at, so
there's a surety to it. But it's also always different.
It's ever changing because the beach is never the same.
Also, it's quite a relaxing place to be.
It's a place you can be laid back, you can be supported, your
whole body can be supported in aunique and different way, so
(32:18):
ultimately you don't need to maintain your position.
I'm never going to practice hypnosis the same again.
Now that was that was very fast.It just blew my mind.
Now if we go to a room, ultimately who do you take to a
room? Now, you could have a room with
tools in. There's a hypnotherapist and
presuppose that, but let's just imagine someone's gone through
(32:38):
quite a traumatic experience. You could take them to a beach,
but oh, a beach. As much as they're relaxed,
they're also exposed. They're exposed to the elements.
Whereas in a room they are safe.There are doors, there is a
barrier, there is a transition, there is a threshold to go
through. Why do you take people through a
door? Because they're going through a
(32:58):
different threshold into something new.
You can control who's in the room, who's in the space, So
depending on the problem you've got, you can use a different
location. Why do you take someone on a
path? Why do you take someone on a
journey? Let's just imagine I'm going
nowhere, life's going nowhere. Well, I'm going to take you on a
(33:19):
journey, on a path because it presupposes by the nature of a
path, there is a guided direction, there is a guided
thing. Paths normally lead somewhere.
Normally they're quite a naturalenvironment.
There's a lot going on, multi sensory.
So it's a whole new way at how you do inductions.
Now let's just imagine you take someone on a hypnot and I think
(33:39):
there's two types of hypnosis. Let's you've got guided hypnosis
where I tell you everything and you give me nothing.
Not my. I don't do that anymore.
My inductions my clients bring themselves, so it's a little
closer to what you do, but now I'm going to be looking at the
metaphor of it more deeply for sure.
Well, he, he, I'll go to the next level.
(34:01):
So excited. The next thing is, let's just
imagine you a client's there andthey're, oh, I'm in a trance and
OK, So what, what are you noticing?
And it's like there's there's there's a big tree to the right.
OK, OK, so what's right for you is quite large.
It's quite natural. It could be said there are some
(34:22):
resources in what's right for you.
What's right for you could give you shade.
It could protect you from the environment.
Oh, but also what's right for you is in your way.
O If you were to take a step in the right direction, you would
come U against something that's quite natural O If you wanted to
go right, you might need to finda way around it.
(34:43):
Boom. So ultimately, if a client is
giving you information through their trance, you can write it
down, you can describe it, and then when they come out of
trance, you can describe what's happened with them.
Unconsciously communicate in a conscious way.
And they're like, and because I'm not saying the tree, well
(35:04):
the tree represents emotionalityor whatever you can say.
Now what's right for you is growth.
There is something growing that's right.
It's quite slow. It took a while to get that way.
The whole communication level isinteresting and it's not
imposing. Now the final aspect of that, if
you can get a map of their own conscious structure.
(35:26):
So let's say the person hitting their head against a brick wall,
if I know what their problem is and I've mapped out their
landscape, just drawing a prettypicture of it, I can take them
into a trusso we're going to go into.
So let's imagine there's a wall in front of them.
Now we're going to take you intoa place where you have that
barrier ahead of you that way that stops you seeing forward,
that way that stops you from guessing, that's giving you a
bit of a headache. Now, some people might say
(35:49):
you've been using your head to try and progress through this
and you've been meeting resistance.
But in this place, in this space, we're going to take a
step back and we're going to just explore what's right for
you. Because ultimately, if you take
a step in the right direction, the barrier that you used to
look forward to is now left behind.
In addition, I was working with a client the other day.
(36:11):
We did some different stuff and I said, well, what's happened to
that problem now? And they're like, well, I mean,
it feels quite distant if you know your submodality is
distant, I feel like I've left it behind.
So if you think behind is behind, left is left.
So left behind is normally in the past.
So I now they're no, their problem is no longer current.
(36:34):
They've moved it. So their language and
understanding these things couldalso help you know has your
change worked and what's happening inside the client.
Smoking cessation is my least favorite thing to do.
Admittedly, it's just not. I even trained with Vinny
Brigance to get a little better at it, to be more comfortable,
(36:56):
to be more effective. But from now on I'm going to be
testing every person that I workwith to see where that problem
is in the spatial sense of it. Yeah, there's a lot of different
spatial modalities. So I mean Metaphors of Movement
works explicitly. You've got Mental Space
Psychology from Lucas Dirks who does some really great work
(37:17):
looking at like NLP talked aboutsub modalities in space.
He does a lot of great work there.
And I think because we saw so many things in space and space
incorporates so much being able to work with spatial modalities
and being able to communicate those things.
So if you if there are any IEM tiers, I wigglers out there,
(37:39):
when you do the I me self in you, you can use this
communication similarly. So let's just imagine you've got
you and you is in front of me and big and it's and I is here
or me is here. It's like, oh, so you look down
on me. You are a lot bigger than me and
I see me as small. You can talk about all of those
relationships because for me, the power about this is because
(38:03):
I've been so like, unaware. And I struggle with awareness.
He's helped me to understand. I remember it.
Hypno thoughts. I was working with a woman and I
was explaining this and she's like, so you're telling me that
when my husband says he doesn't know, he actually doesn't know?
I'm like, yeah, he's clueless. He's honestly ignorant.
(38:27):
And he knows he doesn't know. And he knows, he doesn't know.
And you're trying to get this information out of him and he
just doesn't have a clue, you know?
You've been an incredible speaker in every single place
that I've had the pleasure of seeing you present, whether it's
been Hypno Thoughts or other conferences.
You've got some coming up. Do you want to tell us a bit
(38:47):
about that? I do.
So I'm doing 2 conferences I'm going to, well, I've got a few
different ones. I'm going to London in November,
the London Hypnosis Convention, the 14th, 15th and 16th of
November I believe. So if you're in London, come
come along. I'm going to be talking about
leveraging metaphorical communication for a change.
(39:10):
So I'm going to be talking aboutthis stuff, doing
demonstrations, enlisting from the group.
So you'll get a real sense for it for yourself.
But I'll also have a vendor table, so I'll be doing
demonstrations the whole whole time.
So you can always come by and doa demo so you can get a real
sense of it there. And I've applied for a few
different ones. I'll probably be at Hypno
Thoughts next year, also the Hypno Expo in, I want to say
(39:32):
Orlando. But yeah, I'm looking for
different ones out there. But yeah, lots of different
things coming up. And my next metaphors of
movement training for those keento learn will be in February,
March next year. So it's going to be really
exciting times. And I think I've got the Super
early bird price up at the moment.
Prices do change and fluctuate. But yeah, happy to converse with
(39:54):
everyone who's a bit curious, bit interested or has been like,
OK, this sounds cool. But yeah, I want to experience.
As I say, I can give you a demo as well.
It's about. Virtual training.
Yeah, it's it's online. It's online.
So yeah, it's 20 hours of virtual training, five hours of
post conference training. You get like a whole metaphor
session with me. So you get a whole thing of if
(40:15):
you were to just do that, what it would be like.
But it's easily integratable. And for me, it's really the
language and speaking in a different way and understanding
things from a very different lens that nobody really is
teaching. Definitely not.
And it really leaves an impact. It really, I love the efficiency
(40:38):
of it. I love how quick, but also just
how much I was able to learn about myself in that brief
amount of time. And then there were so many
options and solutions that started to unfold and then even
synchronicities. So it's something that I've
enjoyed experiencing. I can't wait to learn more.
You may or may not see me in that class, if not the one
following after, but I think it's a wonderful tool.
(41:03):
And So what if someone's not a practitioner?
How can they use this to work onthemselves to have more
awareness, kind of like you've been sharing?
Well, I, I do metaphors for myself more or less every day.
And I've got a little metaphor book because I'm like that kind
of cool because I've never been a journaling fan, you know, I
(41:23):
read my. Journal, I appreciate that
sometimes you just you don't know what to zone in on.
You don't know what to write. You can't get to the heart of
it. Get to the heart of it metaphor.
So I mean, I, I do like little drawings for myself, as you can
see. So this I've got like a, a hole
missing in my chest so that there's a piece of me missing,
lack of fulfilment. I've got like in a dark place.
(41:45):
There's lots of hooks. There's like demons and stuff.
So but what it allows me to do is it allows me to better
understand and reflect on my understanding of, of what's
actually going on inside me and with me.
And what I like is even if you don't know what the problem is,
you can explore it. Like I was telling you about my
wife highlighting. It's like, OK, so this thing
(42:07):
that my wife has noticed, there's clearly something up.
But that whole thing, what's that like?
And I can start drawing that outstraw understanding it.
And even better still, you don't.
I mean, it can be useful to knowthe context of someone's
problem, but when I do demos with people, I don't need to
know. But the work that I did with
you, Amanda, I know we were talking about finance
(42:28):
specifically, and you gave me some because I was doing some
research, but ultimately, I don't need to know.
So the problem you've got, I don't need to know.
The realizations you get, I don't need to know.
Ultimately, it just all comes together inside you and it can
be really powerful because then you can just let go of the
(42:48):
story. You don't need to think about
all the things or where it came from, all that sort of stuff.
And it's a really unique and different way to look at things.
I find if people are stuck it's a great different lens as.
A You're a very busy guy. Every time I see you, you are
innovating, you're speaking, You're literally in movement
every single time. I hate to add something to your
(43:11):
plate, but if there was ever going to be a class for using
metaphors of movement for self healing self-awareness, I could
see that going really well. That would be amazing.
This is interesting because ultimately in the level 1 and 2
course, you learn all the fundamentals to practice it, but
(43:33):
do it on yourself. So I suppose I could teach it as
a side modality and put one of the things I actually do because
with coaching and therapy, it's great to do like 1 offs or
things like that. But it's also good to see
progression over time. And let's face it, if I draw a
pretty picture and I talk about it and we do some stuff in it,
how do we know that it's worked?I mean, for me, it's all about
(43:55):
how do we know it's worked? So one of the things I actually
do, I put together something called the metaphors of
movement, personal development, community.
And we, for those who have trained in it, we mean once or
twice a month and we do basically each quarter.
I, I do like a different frame and you pick a whole area of
life. So this month I did finance, the
week before I did like money. Some people have done their
(44:18):
relationship to time. We pick a huge area of life.
And the idea is we want to create shifts and changes.
And for example, one woman was there and by the end of it she
realised, well, I don't want to be a counsellor.
I just get no joy out of it. So she's now training to be more
like moving away from like insurance based work and
actually moving more into a private practice, which has
(44:39):
different challenges, right. But there was one woman who was
working on her health and fitness and by the end of it she
realised I'm actually pretty happy with how I am in that
context. So what I find fascinating is it
gives you really different insights.
It's not your standard. I'm going to be fitter, I'm
going to weigh let or whatever your your thing.
(45:01):
Ultimately for me, it really helps you become just congruent
with who you want to be. But yeah, for personal
development, it's a great tool. But yeah, levels one and two
give you the fundamentals. You don't need to be a coach or
anything like that if you just want to work on yourself.
We also do the work in the course, so you you also get your
own change and transformation there as well, so.
(45:23):
That's incredible. I didn't know you had the
community. That's an amazing way to just
keep the work moving and then also have incredible value for
the people that have signed up and can continue doing their own
self work exploration A. 100% and it's practice and other
people, like I learned from everybody just because like the
way it works, because it's unconscious.
(45:44):
Everyone's got their own knowledge base or from past or
whatever you like to say. But because everyone's got their
own frame, I will learn stuff from other people, they'll learn
stuff from me. And you practice the work at the
same time. So you work on yourself, you
practice and to do this work like it's a very fun, friendly
connection community as well. Like normally people who I don't
(46:06):
necessarily get along with don'tnormally join because it's got a
certain flavour to it. You've got to be open and
flexible and liking that kind ofway of working because it works
directly with the unconscious. It's not rigid.
So yeah, normally the rigid people don't like as much.
So I really like the people who do do the work as well.
(46:26):
Thinking it kind of makes the unconscious more available than
hypnosis for some people, because if they are not visual,
they can't see. You're really tapping into well,
what's that feel like? So they're having to use all of
their senses. Well, why actually challenge and
actually disrepute? So as much as people say I'm
hitting my head against a wall, it's not an image.
(46:47):
It's also not a feeling. It's actually created within a
spatial system. So for people like I don't
visualise. Oh, sorry if you don't
visualise. I didn't mean to say it like
that. But if I struggle with
visualisation because it's working in space, I mean, do I
get a picture of me banging my head against a big wall?
No, I get a sense that that's there.
I get a sense that that's there.So it's a, it's more of a, you
(47:10):
just have a knowing of that environment.
And what's great about it is people are very good at
defending their own experience. So it's very difficult as a
Cofield therapist to impose whatyou think because the person
will just disrepute it. They'll be like, no, no, it's
(47:30):
not like that. Oh, but it is no, no, it's not
that they'll argue. So if you're worried about
implanting ideas or suggestions,stuff like that, it's very, very
difficult to do because people will actively defend it in a
really interesting way. I don't have a lot of those
clients, but when I do, that is the most difficult part of what
I do is a hypnotist and with someone who works with trauma.
(47:52):
Because at some point they get into a state of it's either
learned helplessness sometimes or other times it's just pure
disbelief that anything better can exist.
And they will go to bat for it and defend it.
And it's like, OK, do you reallywant to keep it though?
And it's just so hard to get through sometimes.
(48:13):
That's probably the biggest challenge I have.
So the way that you move with itis entirely different.
I think it's utterly fascinatingand really valuable.
Well, an interesting consideration if they're
defending, presupposition of defending is we're under attack,
right? So there's a whole element of
war. Now war is win or lose.
(48:36):
So if they don't defend, they are a loser.
But sometimes they have to let things go in order to move
forward and thrive, and that's what I'm always trying to show
them. How many people have to actually
be defeated in order to change? They have to surrender.
(48:56):
They have to give up on the story they've had in order to
come to terms with it, make peace with it, in order to do
something different. Exactly.
Well, beautiful transcenders of trauma, as you're listening to
this, I hope that you've enjoyedDale and I know that if you have
(49:17):
any questions for him or you want to experience a demo that
you can reach out for him. I'm going to give all of the
links possible. Maybe this course is for you.
Maybe this is something you workon for self development and
awareness, or maybe you actuallychoose to be someone who
embodies this work so much more deeply.
And either way, I'd love to hearabout it.
(49:37):
Dale, any other things you want the audience to hear today
before we begin to wrap? All I will say is life is yours
so just have fun, enjoy it and as always keep on taking steps.
All right, soulful seekers, I'llleave you with this.
But as always, stay happy, stay healthy.
Most of all, stay inspired. Bye for now.
Hello, hello soulful seekers. Welcome back to Trauma and
Transcendence. Today's guest is a little bit
different, but I think he has immense value.
I've recently had an experience with him and it's been very
eventful and quite the exploration for myself.
And you know that if something catches my attention, then very
(00:21):
likely it's worth yours. Today I have the wonderful Dale
Turnbull. Dale, thank you so much for
being here. Thank you so much for having me.
Pleasure to be on board. And so today we're going to talk
about a couple of things, largely metaphors of movement.
What is that all about? So that's actually quite a
(00:43):
challenging question because a lot of time when you think about
metaphors, people are like, whatwould you mean?
You're talking storytelling? What is the whole thing all
about? Now, I first got interested in
metaphors when I studied neurolinguistic programming.
For those of you who don't know,it is a basically way of mapping
how we think, what's the structure of our thoughts, how
(01:04):
we create our problems, how we create our resources and how we
can switch those things up. And it was then I got into
trainings. I heard beautiful stories that
encaptionated the senses and really take you on a journey
into something magical. And, and I always sort of
understood that there is a real power in stories.
And we say metaphorical communication all the time.
(01:26):
I was working with a woman when I was doing a lot of corporate
work. And she's like, it's like, I've
got this, this thing in my throat.
I'm like, well, what's that like?
And she's like, it's like a spiky ball.
And she's like, yeah, it's quitepainful.
So we actually, well, I'm like, well, why don't we just take it
out, shave off those spikes, make it smaller and throw it
into the distance and what happens?
And, and her whole throat changed.
And I'm like, that's interesting.
(01:47):
So it got me really curious about the metaphors and the
communication that we use in everyday life and everyday
speech and how we can actually learn and understand more about
ourselves. But if you're a coach,
therapist, hypnotist, also aboutour clients at a very deep
unconscious level that we don't often realise.
(02:09):
I came across metaphors of movement, which I now train,
teach, coach, mentor people in. And it's a whole new way of
working with yourself and with others that I find really quite
interesting and intriguing. And yeah, it creates great
awareness and empowers us to understand ourselves a lot, lot
better. So I've seen a rather large
(02:30):
overlap with a lot of people in the hypnosis community, a lot of
people coaching and NLP doing metaphors of movement.
But who else might like to trainin that and take that on as a
modality? So ultimately the when I think
about the unconscious, the unconscious mind, I mean, what
(02:51):
is it? Right?
Can you put your finger on it? No, it's a rather abstract
concept. So to make it sound a bit more
neurological, imagine we've got our conscious side of our brain.
It's not designed this way, but as a broad generalisation.
We've got the conscious part of our brain where we understand,
we know what's going on, we makeour logical decisions and then
we have our unconscious mind as the hypnotists would take you
(03:14):
down that road where you've got ultimately our bodily
sensations, what we're feeling, the images that come up to us.
An interesting example, right? I know you've got three dogs.
You're just showing me your beautiful pug who's resting
soundly. But if you picture a dog, any
dog, just get a picture of a dog.
You'll picture it in a certain place in your mind.
(03:35):
Now it could be in front of you,maybe to the slight left, slight
right, but ultimately you don't choose that it's coming out of
our unconscious. But one of the troubles with the
unconscious is, well, how do youunderstand something that you
don't, you're not consciously aware of?
Now, when people, for example, go into hypnosis, certain images
(03:56):
might come to them as they're taking on a journey.
When you, for example, do tarot,certain people might see things
within the symbolism. I've trained in shamanism, and
when you take someone on a shamanic drum, banging that
drum, it puts the person into this place, into this space
where they can explore a whole different aspect of their
(04:18):
reality. Now that can be great for
change, great for insight, but alot of the time we don't know
what the hell it means, you know, well, what does this stuff
mean? What do I do with that?
And what metaphors of movement does is it communicates what's
(04:38):
going on unconsciously to conscious awareness.
So as much as it's a homodality within itself, it can easily be
incorporated to any sort of modality that uses unconscious
or more spiritual or esoteric oror the ineffable stuff.
It allows us to understand it a more concrete level, which
harmonizes our understanding andI think actually makes us more
(05:01):
whole as an individual. Well, now you've convinced me
that I'd like to experience thisvia shamanic journey, so you
need to put that. I'll go through a bit of an
experience. I wanted to see how this worked.
Now I've done it, but I wanted to be void of the construct,
right? And so I have a friend of mine,
(05:22):
someone who helped train me. She did a journey with somebody
that she knows, and I got them to give me the feedback.
I didn't need to see the session, but I got to give me
their feedback. Now on the one hand, you've got
the practitioner's experience. So for example, when I did a
shamanic journey, I pictured a guy in a swamp in the middle of
(05:43):
this swamp. And when I did the healing or
whatever, we cleaned up the swamp, We did lots of stuff.
Now that was my experience as the practitioner that may
resonate with the client or not.And then you've got the client's
experience and what they realise, what they come through,
what energies move through them.There was a serpent and it moved
(06:05):
through all that kind of stuff. So I can communicate those two
messages. Now, the message that comes from
the person. So let's just imagine I have a
serpent inside me that's going around my lungs.
Let's imagine that. And then I just felt when you
did the drumming, when you did the chanting or whatever trip
you're on, it's sort of unwound.It sort of disappeared and it
(06:27):
went away. Now, what the hell does that
mean? I mean, it sounds quite
relieving that there was that change, but with the language I
can communicate in a way that's void of meaning.
But we understand and I'll give you 2 examples.
Now as a coach therapist, what Icould say is, OK, so there, I'm
trying to do this in the backwards way, but I'll give it
(06:48):
a go. So OK, there's a snake around
you constricting you and that means you don't have choices,
you don't have options. It means you can't express
yourself. And by removing that, we create
more choice, more possibility, more freedom.
OK, now all of those words we can interpret like love, great
(07:09):
word, but what love for you is different to love to me.
So ultimately we can argue aboutit.
And if you've ever had someone trying to understand your
experience and not get it, you, you know what that's like.
Think of it like this. So OK, so there's a snake
wrapping around your log. So ultimately you are
(07:30):
constricted, it could be said you find it hard to breathe and
there's something that's inside you that has a mind of its own,
a life of its own, and it could be seen maybe quite venomous,
quite toxic. But ultimately it's wrapped
around you, it's got a hold of you.
(07:51):
And that would stop you breathing or breathing in in a
way that works. Now ultimately what happened is
through the change, you expelledthat creature, that animal has
been removed from you. It might have been a bit of a
serpent's tongue to it, but thatthat could be my interpretation.
But older me, you're no longer constricted.
(08:12):
So you can breathe freely. Now, if you're just to listen to
that and imagine that was your situation, you, you can't argue
any of it because metaphors of movement teaches you how to
communicate in a way that is notme imposing meaning, but we both
know what these things mean without having to explain it.
(08:33):
So for me, it's really empowering because I get quote
UN quote triggered when people try and impose things on me.
I'm like, just go away. For those of you who are
hypnotists out there, people whomismatch, and for those who
don't know what mismatching is, it's those who always like to
find the example. Me and my wife love doing this
together, by the way, because we're both into personal
(08:53):
development and we're both trying to help each other grow.
So we always find the thing thatdoesn't work or always find the
thing wrong first. So it's obviously not the best
way to give feedback, but, but, but these kind of things and it
allows to really connect and help that person understand
their experience and what's happening for them.
Yeah. Having had my own experience
with it, and that was my first experience by the way, with
(09:15):
metaphors and movement, it was fantastic.
I loved how quickly my internal realms kind of came out and were
displayed before me on a canvas so that I could really get the
deeper meanings behind things. And it wasn't, it wasn't
difficult. It didn't take hours, it was
very fast. It was very poignant and in the
(09:38):
moment of where I was feeling through things.
So we actually worked on money specifically.
Are you still doing that research?
Yeah, so I train metaphors. So I teach coaches, therapists,
change workers or people who want to become more aware of
themselves, how to do this work.I actually offer free
demonstrations. There'll be a link somewhere.
But if you go to metaphors of movement dot US, Metaphors of
(10:01):
movement dot US at the bottom ofthe page.
There's an option for a free demo if you want to experience
this first hand. But so I teach people level 1
and 2, which allows them to practice on others as well as do
it themselves. But I'm moving into working with
more business and money. And I was doing some
explorations, which you kindly volunteered for to understand.
OK, what are the overarching structures around money that
(10:25):
impact our lives? And it's really quite
fascinating. So some people have, you've
probably heard this out there. Money is energy, but what does
that mean? Well, that means in theory money
is all around us. So the opportunity for money is
all around us. But it's also not tangible
because you can't normally grab energy.
(10:46):
You can get a sense of energy, you can feel energy, but that's
quite different. I had someone else who money was
a burden. So that's like they're carrying
this weight. Now just think for a moment, is
that person going to want to be financially affluent?
Are they going to want to get more money?
Because if money is a burden, the more money they have, the
(11:09):
more of a way it becomes. So by understanding our
relationships to money, we can help to create shifts and
changes within that area. I know we're talking with you.
And like money and food was the same thing.
So it nourishes you, it feeds you.
But ultimately, if you don't have money, you've got this
(11:30):
whole feast and famine style thing.
So if you're really affluent or you're not, if you have a lot of
money, you can consume a lot of money unless you're careful and
balanced with your finances. How much do you need?
So looking at these things, we can figure out, OK, does this
work for me? Ultimately the problem or
(11:51):
challenge, for example, with thefood is money perspective.
If I give you bucket loads of money, it could potentially have
challenges for your health and well-being because you could
overindulge, for example. So we can look at different ways
of looking at these structures, but they're personalized to the
individual. Because I think one of my
challenges in personal development is I'll just follow
(12:14):
this process, just do this thing, just follow this
protocol. And like life is so much more
complicated. Protocols and processes
normally, from my experience at least, are generalisations of
what work with the majority of the populace.
But through the metaphors work Ido, I'll have a good option,
good choice, good variety. Every session is different.
(12:35):
Every session is unique because it's the person's unique
experience. And as much as it might be
similar, is never identical. I think I took part in one of
your groups a little while ago and I just got around to finally
catching the replay. I missed the live event.
I was so bummed. But it was beautiful to watch
because everybody had. Even though the group themes
were the same, everybody had a different experience, different
(12:59):
metaphors, different perspectives, different things
they were working through. 100% Well, well, let's just consider
this if you're a a viewer or listener.
So let's imagine a context wherelet's say you're stuck.
OK, stuck. What's that like now stuck?
For some people, it could be there's a barrier in front of
(13:19):
them. They can't move forward, they
can't progress. Some people might say it's like
I'm hitting my head against a brick wall.
That's how I'm stuck. Now if you're to imagine that as
an image, that's quite an interesting representation of
being stuck. Now some people might say it's
like I'm in quicksand. I'm stuck.
So there's two different ways ofsaying stuck, but the the, the
(13:39):
image of the representation is quite different.
Some people it's I'm stuck because I'm being held back.
Now. They all have pros and cons.
Now if I'm stuck with a barrier in front of me, I can't
progress. I can't move forward.
I can't see a way forward. If you imagine a wall.
But I'm also not considering other directions.
There might be a way that's right for me to go, a way that's
(14:00):
left for me to go, or I could take a step back.
The person in quicksand, by the way, Quicksand, everyone thinks
of quicksand from the movies. You take a step in it and you
sink right into it. You're like, quicksand takes an
age, a real age to really get stuck in it.
It takes a very freaking long time.
But people think, oh, but ultimately, think about it.
(14:23):
If your feet are in quicksand, there's going to be resistance
to move. Ultimately, it's going to take
effort to get out of it. So if you're not motivated
enough, if you're not driven enough, if you don't know where
you're going, But why bother doing the effort to get unstuck
if you don't know where you wantto go in the first place?
(14:43):
And it must have took effort to get there to begin with.
Yeah, or not paying attention towhere you were going in order to
get too stuck into it, right. And ultimately to get stuck in
quicksand, you normally need to move, struggle a bit, but
ultimately you're not actively trying to get out.
Now somebody for example, who's being held back, that's very
different because there's there's a whole interpersonal
(15:04):
dynamic. It could be someone's like got
you hooked on them with hooks orsomeone's like holding you back
with a rope. So there can be certain
attachments to things. So these certain things that
show up in everyday life, everyday communication, can be
really insightful. This also crosses over into
dreams. Like what do our dreams mean?
Well, dreams are messages from our unconscious messages, some
(15:27):
might say messages, some might say our unconscious processing,
but still it's unconscious information.
And if we know how to communicate that information, we
can get real insight in our waking lives about what the
dream is communicating to us, but without interpreting it and
(15:47):
not saying, well, this could mean that, well, we're just
communicating what's going on. So it could be quite powerful
that. Well, what got you started into
the realms of metaphors of movement?
So, I mean, I've always loved metaphors, just the idea of
metaphors. There's a book by, I want to say
David Gorman. David Gorman, I believe it's
called Therapeutic Metaphors. It was the first metaphors book
(16:09):
that I read when I after I studied NLP and it was more
about storytelling. And for me, I've always been
interested in, OK, so what's thedifference that makes the
difference? I really enjoyed Neuro
Linguistic Programming because it's about, OK, how is the
individual structuring the problem so we can start to
change and shift that. After that I got into something
(16:31):
called Provocative Change Works,which is really great.
It's by a gentleman called Nick Kemp, inspired by Provocative
Therapy from Frank Farrelly. How that works is really
interesting because it's a conversational model, but it's
really about stretching the person's perception of their
reality in a, in a friendly way,but also quite a provocative and
(16:51):
challenging way. From there.
I heard about the metaphors of movement because it's like, oh,
metaphors 2. It was recommended by someone
like yourself who's an authoritywithin the space.
They're like, you need to join this course.
You need to take this course. So I just, I just jumped
straight in and I didn't even know 100% what it was all about,
but it sounded awesome. So I'm like, why not?
(17:13):
From there, it really gave me a whole new way of seeing things.
And, and I think for those interested in personal
development or therapy, interested in therapy, I mean,
if you're taking it, you might not be interested in it, but if
you're doing therapy or whatever, I find there's two
different people in personal development.
They're either people who love working on themselves or there
(17:36):
are people who are really good at working with others.
I was always very good at working with others, but I, I, I
really struggled to work. I remember my first NLP course
so I studied with John Grinder, the Co creator of NLP and when I
took the course I was like coming from a corporate
environment. I came in because I actually
(17:56):
wanted to enhance my communication to increase the
impact I was having with people on a more tailored level.
I'd say you've achieved that. Thank you.
And for me, I was like, why has everyone got so many freaking
issues? Because I was just so clueless
to my own potential issues. I was very good at being
(18:19):
ignorant. You know, awareness, awareness
is the key. Also sucks because you're aware
of all your challenges. But anyway, so I was aware.
I wasn't aware of how unaware I was because I came in with it
from a different angle. And ultimately for me, I
struggle with two things. I struggle personally to explain
(18:41):
what's going on with me. My wife will see me and she's
like, Dale, what's wrong? I'm like what?
She's like, you've been in a mess or in a state for the last
couple of hours. What's up?
I don't know. Now, I don't think she's
gaslighting me or saying I'm wrong, but she's pretty good at
this stuff. But I'm normally quite good at
keeping myself in the dark. I'm very good at keeping myself
(19:03):
blind to challenges or issues. It takes me quite a long time to
be unaware. To be thicker, and I'm not
saying that this was your experience, but people who have
trauma, that is often the case. They become numb to their
feelings or they've been in situations that have made them
feel so unsafe that they had to prioritize other people's needs,
(19:26):
wants before their own. So they become conditioned
essentially to not listen to those internal things happening.
So for those of you with trauma listening to this, really take
heed because this is going to bea wonderful tool for you to
possibly find and dig your way out and to start becoming a
little more present. Get into the exercise of, oh,
(19:46):
what is happening in the subconscious?
What am I not aware of? So this is what I just heard.
So thank you for sharing that, Amanda.
And she said, digging your way out.
Now let's just listen to that. So this is a phrase that Amanda
just said. She didn't think about it.
She just expressed it. So if you're somebody who likes
to dig deep, people who like to get to the root cause, normally
(20:11):
psychotherapists as well, peoplewho dig deep root cause, these
are your why people? Why is it the case?
But let's just imagine that, right?
Digging yourself out would implythat you're in something and
you're trying to dig yourself out.
Now, normally digging happens underground.
(20:33):
Sometimes you could dig across if it's a cable or whatever.
But if this person is digging down, if you ever had the person
who asked themselves why so much, they dig themselves into
it so deep, it's such a huge wayout that they're stuck.
Sometimes asking why too much can be a problem because we're
just digging and digging and digging.
(20:54):
Now, to dig yourself out impliesyou're putting the work in,
you're using your arms, you're trying to handle it, but
ultimately it might be building up behind you or to a different
side of you. But ultimately you're trying to
get out of something, dig your way up.
So it's stuff like that that cangive you so much insight into
what's actually going on with you, but but also with your
(21:15):
clients. Yeah, to really identify what
people are really feeling. 100% are all experiencing because
sometimes we might feel it's frustrating.
Well, what's that like? Well, it's like I'm digging, I'm
digging a hole. Well, I mean, it's of course
it's frustrating because why areyou digging?
Where are you trying to go? What are you trying to find?
(21:37):
I mean, are you digging for gold?
Like I found this gold thing, but now I've got to get on
surface, you know, how's that going to work?
So it's a really fascinating wayof these things that come up in
everyday communication. We talked about overcoming
trauma like the topic of your channel.
Now, if you think digging to thebottom of it is very different
(21:58):
to overcoming something because to overcome something, we've got
a few ways of looking at this. I'll just get over it.
That's one way. But how tall is the thing You've
got to get over? That could be one way.
Some people elevate themselves normally through knowledge,
learning skills like people offer on this sort of channel.
(22:20):
Some of the things that they share, they learn, they develop,
they grow their skills in order to overcome the issue.
But sometimes some issues are not overcome able.
So maybe you need to look at a different direction, go a
different way, explore a different route.
That's fascinating just how these things show up.
And because it, the unconscious is so expansed and this stuff,
(22:43):
this language comes from the unconscious.
I'm also still learning. I had a session the other day
where I learned amazing things because it was unique and
different to the person. So as much as I train this stuff
and I've experienced this stuff and I freaking love this stuff,
there's always more to learn. There's always more to explore.
Yeah, it's because you're reallygetting into that person's
(23:04):
internal representations for things, and we're all so vastly
different. We've had so many different
experiences that help us build those.
I think most people call it schemas, where we have certain
themes and representations of things.
It's really fascinating. I could imagine that you are
never bored I. Mean.
(23:24):
Yeah, because even in building aschema, what does that suggest?
They're a block. You put stuff in place, there's
maybe a concrete foundation. It's pretty solid, pretty
stable. It's not going anywhere because
it's. So these are thick, all of these
different things. So this can relate.
It's kind of like a periodic table and we occasionally get to
pull things out that don't fit anymore.
Could be an unstable elements don't work.
(23:47):
I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's really cool,
interesting elements, but also how that how chemistry, how the
different elements work together.
People talk about in personal development, the alchemy of
change, the alchemical process, these sort of reactions, how do
you react? Implies 2 different elements are
coming together. How different way of looking at
(24:09):
human interaction? So what does it look like when
somebody wants to book in and explore something with you?
And then you might speak to someof the things they might
explore. But from what I've seen it looks
like you can play with anything and learn a lot. 100% So I mean,
if, if you're curious to like learn and teach this work
(24:30):
normally it works two ways. People are like, wow, this is
awesome. Some people are a little bit,
I'm not so sure. And other people are like, this
just doesn't sound like it's forme.
Now for those of you coach, therapist or those keen to
learn, as I say, go to my website.
Happy to offer you a 330 minute session.
What we'll do on that is we'll we actually draw pretty
pictures. I mean, well, not necessarily
pretty. I'll give you an example.
(24:53):
So this this is a picture I drewearlier.
This is an. Inadvertent way to improve my
drawing skills. I mean, to be fair I have taken
but you don't need to be drawing.
So this is an example. So for people who've learnt the
modality, every two weeks I do practice with the whole
community, not just people who've learnt from me, but
learnt from other people. So this is somebody, they're in
(25:13):
a queue, they're carrying like afood tray and they're in line
for this sort of prison like food slop sort of thing.
This is what they're probably more challenges, like there's
some guards to the left, big open door and then there's other
prisoners to the left. So that's what we draw out.
Now you look at that and you're like, what is that?
That means nothing. And as I was saying before, I
(25:34):
struggled to look at myself and actually reflect and understand
my own experience. Now, I don't understand what
that means. What does that mean about me?
But I can start to think, OK, soultimately, you're just one in
the line. You're just you're a follower.
You're following the person in front could be said that you're
a bit of a prisoner. And they said the food was very
(25:56):
uninspiring. So ultimately what you're
looking forward to is very uninspiring.
It does keep you alive, but it'sjust a bit sloppy.
You don't really like it. But you're chained to this
because she was chained by her ankle.
She's in line, so she has to stay in line.
Like just from that, you start to get a bigger concept of
what's going on for that person.So that's what we would do in a
(26:20):
free demonstration. I draw pre picture now if you
want to work through a specific challenge issue, problem, that
could be relationship issues, itcould be finance work.
Ultimately this isn't a solutionbased methodology.
And what I mean by that is it's not like I've worked with people
with anger, with phobias, with multiple different things.
And I have fixed problems using just this.
(26:44):
However, sometimes in life things are going to get worse
before they get better. Herxheimer reaction.
That's how that goes. I mean, since they're leaving,
it's going to be uncomfortable. 100% I mean, for, for an
example, let's just imagine somebody wants to leave their
partner, that being with that partner regardless has certain
(27:07):
benefits, normally financial or whatever.
So by leaving that partner, there's financial hardship,
there's financial challenges, there's working harder, there's
logistics issues. So sometimes change is not
always positive, so people resist it because life's going
to get harder. I want you to make me feel
better about me leaving my significant other.
Now I can make them feel better,but the reality is their life is
(27:29):
going to suck harder in the shorter term.
So what this work does is it's very good at giving us an
understanding of our deeper reality, what's keeping us
start, what's blocking us and shaking those things up
ultimately. So you're thinking differently
about your challenges, you're acting differently about your
challenges, and so you can actually start to make progress
(27:50):
in many different areas of life.Now, things that I'll be very
explicit, I don't think this works for.
It's very, it's very young, Ian,isn't it?
Yeah. I mean, there's there's because
this is a representation of unconscious experience.
You've got archetypes in there, all different types of
archetypes. You've got for those of you who
(28:11):
do more esoteric things, you've got certain symbolism within
there. For those of you who've done
NLP, you've got meta programs inthere.
There's a multitude of differenttime representation that like
it's so densely packed, There's so many layers to it.
There's identity in there and how I have, for example, a guy
(28:34):
and he was so to his right was ajungle, to his left was a city,
and in front of him was a field.Now to think about it, right, if
he's to take a step in the rightdirection, it's going to be a
bit wild. Better be crazy.
But what does he need to go to be in the jungle?
Well, he needs a certain amount of resources.
He needs to be an adventurer. He needs to not be afraid.
There's a whole like there's a whole host of things.
(28:54):
Anyway, I could talk about the stuff for ages.
I may have gone off on a tangent.
Don't like going necessarily linear with this stuff.
Where were we at? We were talking about how it's
young in there's archetypes. Before that you were in a head
in a different direction. I disrupted you so sorry.
But it might not necessarily be the most pleasant.
(29:16):
So if you're just looking for lovely feelings, I'm not going
to promise that. But if you are looking for
change and insight in a very different way that I can
guarantee you. A lot of the coaches, the
therapists, the IEM tiers that you work with, do they then
follow up with hypnosis or IEMT as part of their own expression
of metaphors of movement? 100% so I actually, so there's a
(29:40):
woman called Lori Donnelly, she teaches IEMT integral eye
movement therapy here. One day I will get her on this
podcast. Really good, really good,
amazing work. And I joined one of her practice
sessions and what was interesting is so the client was
feeding back. So the person did an
intervention A and then they're like, well, what's it like now?
(30:01):
And they're like, well, it's like, I'm in a box.
Like, OK, so they did intervention again and they're
like, there's a box with a window and then invent box with
a window and the windows open, box with a door, box with a door
is open. So there was an interesting
progression. Actually on my YouTube and
Facebook channels, I'm going to be doing a video breakdown.
I do quite a lot of videos aboutthis stuff because I'm like, oh,
(30:22):
cool, interesting thing came up.Let's do a video on it.
If anything, it's slightly selfish because I find I learned
best by doing and talking about it.
So if I don't have someone to talk about it, I'll just make a
video, talk about it and get theinsight from it.
So selfish, but educational at the same time.
So I'm going to do a breakdown of that.
So what's interesting is you cansee how things shift and change.
(30:46):
Now, if you're doing hypnosis, here's an interesting question
for you. Or you've experienced hypnosis.
Why go to a beach? Because I enjoy the sensory
oven, I enjoy the the sun and the warmth and the sounds and
the smells. It's an atmosphere that brings
me a modicum of serenity. OK cool, so that's one way to
(31:07):
look at it. Why take someone to A room?
That room may have tools or things that they need.
They may need the security the the safety.
OK, cool. So this is where we can consider
it. On the one hand, if you're a
hypnotherapist, where do you take your clients on your
journey? And I'll break those down in a
minute. Or you've got what does a client
(31:31):
tell you in hypnosis? So let's come to journeys first.
So let's just imagine a hypnotherapist is taking you to
a beach. OK, well ultimately it's an
interesting place from a hypnotic perspective, multi
sensory, easy to take someone into trance, but ultimately
you're in a place that's very sure.
Now ultimately things come, theygo.
(31:54):
There's a reliability to it because sure, it's normally
changed twice a day at least depending on where you're at, so
there's a surety to it. But it's also always different.
It's ever changing because the beach is never the same.
Also, it's quite a relaxing place to be.
It's a place you can be laid back, you can be supported, your
whole body can be supported in aunique and different way, so
(32:18):
ultimately you don't need to maintain your position.
I'm never going to practice hypnosis the same again.
Now that was that was very fast.It just blew my mind.
Now if we go to a room, ultimately who do you take to a
room? Now, you could have a room with
tools in. There's a hypnotherapist and
presuppose that, but let's just imagine someone's gone through
(32:38):
quite a traumatic experience. You could take them to a beach,
but oh, a beach. As much as they're relaxed,
they're also exposed. They're exposed to the elements.
Whereas in a room they are safe.There are doors, there is a
barrier, there is a transition, there is a threshold to go
through. Why do you take people through a
door? Because they're going through a
(32:58):
different threshold into something new.
You can control who's in the room, who's in the space, So
depending on the problem you've got, you can use a different
location. Why do you take someone on a
path? Why do you take someone on a
journey? Let's just imagine I'm going
nowhere, life's going nowhere. Well, I'm going to take you on a
(33:19):
journey, on a path because it presupposes by the nature of a
path, there is a guided direction, there is a guided
thing. Paths normally lead somewhere.
Normally they're quite a naturalenvironment.
There's a lot going on, multi sensory.
So it's a whole new way at how you do inductions.
Now let's just imagine you take someone on a hypnot and I think
(33:39):
there's two types of hypnosis. Let's you've got guided hypnosis
where I tell you everything and you give me nothing.
Not my. I don't do that anymore.
My inductions my clients bring themselves, so it's a little
closer to what you do, but now I'm going to be looking at the
metaphor of it more deeply for sure.
Well, he, he, I'll go to the next level.
(34:01):
So excited. The next thing is, let's just
imagine you a client's there andthey're, oh, I'm in a trance and
OK, So what, what are you noticing?
And it's like there's there's there's a big tree to the right.
OK, OK, so what's right for you is quite large.
It's quite natural. It could be said there are some
(34:22):
resources in what's right for you.
What's right for you could give you shade.
It could protect you from the environment.
Oh, but also what's right for you is in your way.
O If you were to take a step in the right direction, you would
come U against something that's quite natural O If you wanted to
go right, you might need to finda way around it.
(34:43):
Boom. So ultimately, if a client is
giving you information through their trance, you can write it
down, you can describe it, and then when they come out of
trance, you can describe what's happened with them.
Unconsciously communicate in a conscious way.
And they're like, and because I'm not saying the tree, well
(35:04):
the tree represents emotionalityor whatever you can say.
Now what's right for you is growth.
There is something growing that's right.
It's quite slow. It took a while to get that way.
The whole communication level isinteresting and it's not
imposing. Now the final aspect of that, if
you can get a map of their own conscious structure.
(35:26):
So let's say the person hitting their head against a brick wall,
if I know what their problem is and I've mapped out their
landscape, just drawing a prettypicture of it, I can take them
into a trusso we're going to go into.
So let's imagine there's a wall in front of them.
Now we're going to take you intoa place where you have that
barrier ahead of you that way that stops you seeing forward,
that way that stops you from guessing, that's giving you a
bit of a headache. Now, some people might say
(35:49):
you've been using your head to try and progress through this
and you've been meeting resistance.
But in this place, in this space, we're going to take a
step back and we're going to just explore what's right for
you. Because ultimately, if you take
a step in the right direction, the barrier that you used to
look forward to is now left behind.
In addition, I was working with a client the other day.
(36:11):
We did some different stuff and I said, well, what's happened to
that problem now? And they're like, well, I mean,
it feels quite distant if you know your submodality is
distant, I feel like I've left it behind.
So if you think behind is behind, left is left.
So left behind is normally in the past.
So I now they're no, their problem is no longer current.
(36:34):
They've moved it. So their language and
understanding these things couldalso help you know has your
change worked and what's happening inside the client.
Smoking cessation is my least favorite thing to do.
Admittedly, it's just not. I even trained with Vinny
Brigance to get a little better at it, to be more comfortable,
(36:56):
to be more effective. But from now on I'm going to be
testing every person that I workwith to see where that problem
is in the spatial sense of it. Yeah, there's a lot of different
spatial modalities. So I mean Metaphors of Movement
works explicitly. You've got Mental Space
Psychology from Lucas Dirks who does some really great work
(37:17):
looking at like NLP talked aboutsub modalities in space.
He does a lot of great work there.
And I think because we saw so many things in space and space
incorporates so much being able to work with spatial modalities
and being able to communicate those things.
So if you if there are any IEM tiers, I wigglers out there,
(37:39):
when you do the I me self in you, you can use this
communication similarly. So let's just imagine you've got
you and you is in front of me and big and it's and I is here
or me is here. It's like, oh, so you look down
on me. You are a lot bigger than me and
I see me as small. You can talk about all of those
relationships because for me, the power about this is because
(38:03):
I've been so like, unaware. And I struggle with awareness.
He's helped me to understand. I remember it.
Hypno thoughts. I was working with a woman and I
was explaining this and she's like, so you're telling me that
when my husband says he doesn't know, he actually doesn't know?
I'm like, yeah, he's clueless. He's honestly ignorant.
(38:27):
And he knows he doesn't know. And he knows, he doesn't know.
And you're trying to get this information out of him and he
just doesn't have a clue, you know?
You've been an incredible speaker in every single place
that I've had the pleasure of seeing you present, whether it's
been Hypno Thoughts or other conferences.
You've got some coming up. Do you want to tell us a bit
(38:47):
about that? I do.
So I'm doing 2 conferences I'm going to, well, I've got a few
different ones. I'm going to London in November,
the London Hypnosis Convention, the 14th, 15th and 16th of
November I believe. So if you're in London, come
come along. I'm going to be talking about
leveraging metaphorical communication for a change.
(39:10):
So I'm going to be talking aboutthis stuff, doing
demonstrations, enlisting from the group.
So you'll get a real sense for it for yourself.
But I'll also have a vendor table, so I'll be doing
demonstrations the whole whole time.
So you can always come by and doa demo so you can get a real
sense of it there. And I've applied for a few
different ones. I'll probably be at Hypno
Thoughts next year, also the Hypno Expo in, I want to say
(39:32):
Orlando. But yeah, I'm looking for
different ones out there. But yeah, lots of different
things coming up. And my next metaphors of
movement training for those keento learn will be in February,
March next year. So it's going to be really
exciting times. And I think I've got the Super
early bird price up at the moment.
Prices do change and fluctuate. But yeah, happy to converse with
(39:54):
everyone who's a bit curious, bit interested or has been like,
OK, this sounds cool. But yeah, I want to experience.
As I say, I can give you a demo as well.
It's about. Virtual training.
Yeah, it's it's online. It's online.
So yeah, it's 20 hours of virtual training, five hours of
post conference training. You get like a whole metaphor
session with me. So you get a whole thing of if
(40:15):
you were to just do that, what it would be like.
But it's easily integratable. And for me, it's really the
language and speaking in a different way and understanding
things from a very different lens that nobody really is
teaching. Definitely not.
And it really leaves an impact. It really, I love the efficiency
(40:38):
of it. I love how quick, but also just
how much I was able to learn about myself in that brief
amount of time. And then there were so many
options and solutions that started to unfold and then even
synchronicities. So it's something that I've
enjoyed experiencing. I can't wait to learn more.
You may or may not see me in that class, if not the one
following after, but I think it's a wonderful tool.
(41:03):
And So what if someone's not a practitioner?
How can they use this to work onthemselves to have more
awareness, kind of like you've been sharing?
Well, I, I do metaphors for myself more or less every day.
And I've got a little metaphor book because I'm like that kind
of cool because I've never been a journaling fan, you know, I
(41:23):
read my. Journal, I appreciate that
sometimes you just you don't know what to zone in on.
You don't know what to write. You can't get to the heart of
it. Get to the heart of it metaphor.
So I mean, I, I do like little drawings for myself, as you can
see. So this I've got like a, a hole
missing in my chest so that there's a piece of me missing,
lack of fulfilment. I've got like in a dark place.
(41:45):
There's lots of hooks. There's like demons and stuff.
So but what it allows me to do is it allows me to better
understand and reflect on my understanding of, of what's
actually going on inside me and with me.
And what I like is even if you don't know what the problem is,
you can explore it. Like I was telling you about my
wife highlighting. It's like, OK, so this thing
(42:07):
that my wife has noticed, there's clearly something up.
But that whole thing, what's that like?
And I can start drawing that outstraw understanding it.
And even better still, you don't.
I mean, it can be useful to knowthe context of someone's
problem, but when I do demos with people, I don't need to
know. But the work that I did with
you, Amanda, I know we were talking about finance
(42:28):
specifically, and you gave me some because I was doing some
research, but ultimately, I don't need to know.
So the problem you've got, I don't need to know.
The realizations you get, I don't need to know.
Ultimately, it just all comes together inside you and it can
be really powerful because then you can just let go of the
(42:48):
story. You don't need to think about
all the things or where it came from, all that sort of stuff.
And it's a really unique and different way to look at things.
I find if people are stuck it's a great different lens as.
A You're a very busy guy. Every time I see you, you are
innovating, you're speaking, You're literally in movement
every single time. I hate to add something to your
(43:11):
plate, but if there was ever going to be a class for using
metaphors of movement for self healing self-awareness, I could
see that going really well. That would be amazing.
This is interesting because ultimately in the level 1 and 2
course, you learn all the fundamentals to practice it, but
(43:33):
do it on yourself. So I suppose I could teach it as
a side modality and put one of the things I actually do because
with coaching and therapy, it's great to do like 1 offs or
things like that. But it's also good to see
progression over time. And let's face it, if I draw a
pretty picture and I talk about it and we do some stuff in it,
how do we know that it's worked?I mean, for me, it's all about
(43:55):
how do we know it's worked? So one of the things I actually
do, I put together something called the metaphors of
movement, personal development, community.
And we, for those who have trained in it, we mean once or
twice a month and we do basically each quarter.
I, I do like a different frame and you pick a whole area of
life. So this month I did finance, the
week before I did like money. Some people have done their
(44:18):
relationship to time. We pick a huge area of life.
And the idea is we want to create shifts and changes.
And for example, one woman was there and by the end of it she
realised, well, I don't want to be a counsellor.
I just get no joy out of it. So she's now training to be more
like moving away from like insurance based work and
actually moving more into a private practice, which has
(44:39):
different challenges, right. But there was one woman who was
working on her health and fitness and by the end of it she
realised I'm actually pretty happy with how I am in that
context. So what I find fascinating is it
gives you really different insights.
It's not your standard. I'm going to be fitter, I'm
going to weigh let or whatever your your thing.
(45:01):
Ultimately for me, it really helps you become just congruent
with who you want to be. But yeah, for personal
development, it's a great tool. But yeah, levels one and two
give you the fundamentals. You don't need to be a coach or
anything like that if you just want to work on yourself.
We also do the work in the course, so you you also get your
own change and transformation there as well, so.
(45:23):
That's incredible. I didn't know you had the
community. That's an amazing way to just
keep the work moving and then also have incredible value for
the people that have signed up and can continue doing their own
self work exploration A. 100% and it's practice and other
people, like I learned from everybody just because like the
way it works, because it's unconscious.
(45:44):
Everyone's got their own knowledge base or from past or
whatever you like to say. But because everyone's got their
own frame, I will learn stuff from other people, they'll learn
stuff from me. And you practice the work at the
same time. So you work on yourself, you
practice and to do this work like it's a very fun, friendly
connection community as well. Like normally people who I don't
(46:06):
necessarily get along with don'tnormally join because it's got a
certain flavour to it. You've got to be open and
flexible and liking that kind ofway of working because it works
directly with the unconscious. It's not rigid.
So yeah, normally the rigid people don't like as much.
So I really like the people who do do the work as well.
(46:26):
Thinking it kind of makes the unconscious more available than
hypnosis for some people, because if they are not visual,
they can't see. You're really tapping into well,
what's that feel like? So they're having to use all of
their senses. Well, why actually challenge and
actually disrepute? So as much as people say I'm
hitting my head against a wall, it's not an image.
(46:47):
It's also not a feeling. It's actually created within a
spatial system. So for people like I don't
visualise. Oh, sorry if you don't
visualise. I didn't mean to say it like
that. But if I struggle with
visualisation because it's working in space, I mean, do I
get a picture of me banging my head against a big wall?
No, I get a sense that that's there.
I get a sense that that's there.So it's a, it's more of a, you
(47:10):
just have a knowing of that environment.
And what's great about it is people are very good at
defending their own experience. So it's very difficult as a
Cofield therapist to impose whatyou think because the person
will just disrepute it. They'll be like, no, no, it's
(47:30):
not like that. Oh, but it is no, no, it's not
that they'll argue. So if you're worried about
implanting ideas or suggestions,stuff like that, it's very, very
difficult to do because people will actively defend it in a
really interesting way. I don't have a lot of those
clients, but when I do, that is the most difficult part of what
I do is a hypnotist and with someone who works with trauma.
(47:52):
Because at some point they get into a state of it's either
learned helplessness sometimes or other times it's just pure
disbelief that anything better can exist.
And they will go to bat for it and defend it.
And it's like, OK, do you reallywant to keep it though?
And it's just so hard to get through sometimes.
(48:13):
That's probably the biggest challenge I have.
So the way that you move with itis entirely different.
I think it's utterly fascinatingand really valuable.
Well, an interesting consideration if they're
defending, presupposition of defending is we're under attack,
right? So there's a whole element of
war. Now war is win or lose.
(48:36):
So if they don't defend, they are a loser.
But sometimes they have to let things go in order to move
forward and thrive, and that's what I'm always trying to show
them. How many people have to actually
be defeated in order to change? They have to surrender.
(48:56):
They have to give up on the story they've had in order to
come to terms with it, make peace with it, in order to do
something different. Exactly.
Well, beautiful transcenders of trauma, as you're listening to
this, I hope that you've enjoyedDale and I know that if you have
(49:17):
any questions for him or you want to experience a demo that
you can reach out for him. I'm going to give all of the
links possible. Maybe this course is for you.
Maybe this is something you workon for self development and
awareness, or maybe you actuallychoose to be someone who
embodies this work so much more deeply.
And either way, I'd love to hearabout it.
(49:37):
Dale, any other things you want the audience to hear today
before we begin to wrap? All I will say is life is yours
so just have fun, enjoy it and as always keep on taking steps.
All right, soulful seekers, I'llleave you with this.
But as always, stay happy, stay healthy.
Most of all, stay inspired. Bye for now.
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