Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
How's it going everybody.
Welcome back to the travel andadventure photography school
podcast as always.
I'm your host Robert Massey.
Thank you so much for takingsome time out of your valuable
day to listen and to grow yourphotography skills.
I've got a great one for youtoday, as we are going to be
talking about how to hone yourcreative eye, which is one of
the most important yet difficultthings photographers can do.
(00:23):
And this is something you willdo constantly throughout your
time as a photographerthroughout your career.
I've had a camera in my handsnow for over a decade.
And I am always doing anything Ican to keep honing my
creativity.
Is this not something thatyou're ever going to stop at
you're ever going to master.
It's something you're just goingto keep doing.
So today I'm going to go over mytop six ways of doing this.
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Some of these are really easy toimplement.
Some will take a lot of work andhonestly, a lot of guts, but
they are so worthwhile toincorporate into your creative
work.
Now, the last tip in particularwill make a world of difference.
For every single photographer.
If you love this today, give mea shout out on Instagram at
Robert Massey photography, orjust reach out to me and let me
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know what you'd love to learnmore about.
I really do this because I likethe conversations that it sparks
with other people.
I like the community that'sbuilt up.
And I like the people that I'vegotten to know from doing this.
All right.
Let's get into this first up iswhen you've likely heard a lot
about before.
And it's something you'reprobably already doing
consciously or maybeunconsciously.
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And that's looking at the workof great photographers and
seeing what they are doing tomake their arts, to capture
their photographs.
Studying other photographerswork is like taking a leisurely
stroll through a vibrantmarketplace.
You get to soak up all thesights and sounds picking out
the things that catch your eyeand make you go.
Whoa.
Oh, that's so cool.
How did they do that?
What did they do?
It's not about comparingyourself for feeling like you
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have to measure up to them or,oh, I'm not doing enough or my
art's not good enough forwhatever.
Terrible things.
Go through our heads that gothrough everybody's heads out
there.
It's about soaking in thatinspiration and learning from
those diverse perspectives outthere and the way that they
capture their art.
And honestly, we can't forgetabout the learning part.
When you dive into someoneelse's work, you're basically
doing a crash course in how theyapproach photography.
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Maybe you notice how they playwith shadows, utilized color
theory, or capture fleetingmoments that make you stop and
think.
These little insights could belike tiny seeds planted in your
brain rate a sprout into yourown unique style.
One of my favorite things to dois to look at a photo that makes
me stop and think about how theydid this.
Was it all done in camera?
What post-processing did they dohere?
What lens was this?
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How did.
They utilize color or shapes orcomposition.
Just, how did they bring thisphoto together?
And what made me stop?
What made me find this imagereally interesting.
Was it the subject matter?
Was it the composition?
Was it the color?
Was it the lighting?
Was it everything?
What made me stop in my tracks.
And then we'll keep track ofthese little things that I like,
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and don't like about it andstart incorporating those
elements into my work to startbuilding out a personal style
that is.
Fully influenced by these peoplethat I look up to and this great
art that I look up to.
And that's just like all greatart.
It's all being influenced bythose around them who make it.
And by other people who are outcreating.
Now to do this, I wouldn'tsuggest just sitting and
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scrolling through Instagram.
You're going to get lost in aspiral hole of some things that
aren't super influential foryou.
Some things that aren't great.
That's, that's awesome forreally quick inspiration, just
kind of a five, 10 minute diveinto something or to find a new
photographer, a new style thatyou like.
But what I find is much morehelpful to really dive into a
photographer's work.
To really understand how theymake those images that you fall
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in love with.
Go to their website.
This way you can really delveinto their work and their style.
You can compare images side byside.
You're not getting distractedand pegged down in Instagram's
platform.
And if you do this the way I doit, I find some people on
Instagram and then I'll actuallygo to my proper big computer.
And look at them bigger andstart really breaking down the
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images in a much more thoughtfuland.
Investigative way.
Being on a little screen, lotsof things look really good.
But as soon as you get them ontoa bigger screen, you can start
seeing the pieces that you don'tlike, the pieces that you really
do love, and you can startreally building out.
How they're going to influenceyour own creativity.
Now the other really great wayto do this is to pick up a book
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of their photographs.
You get it from behind a screen.
You see what speaks to you inprint?
Make notes on those pages.
If you own the book, obviously.
Dog ear them.
Mark-up beside a photo.
What you like and what you don'tlike, find the parts and images
that inspire your work andthings you want to incorporate.
And then flip back through itagain, when you're not feeling
necessarily hugely inspired andgo like, oh yeah, that's what I
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loved about this.
And remember this isn't aboutcomparing yourself.
This is about building andfinding your inspiration to get
out there and make.
Better photographs.
All right.
Tip number two.
And this one is all aboutbuilding community and embracing
other art forms because artdoesn't happen in a vacuum and
neither does photography.
We are fully influenced by whatis happening in the world around
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us.
By what other people are makingby what other creators are
doing.
So start collaborating withthose other creatives and you'll
see whole new perspectives openup in front of you.
Collaborating with othercreatives is like, Throwing a
backyard, barbecue with all yourfavorite people.
It can be fun laid back and it'skind of guaranteed to cook up
some seriously awesome ideas.
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See when you team up withwriters, artists, musicians,
fellow photographers,cinematographers.
It's like mixing all yourfavorite ingredients together to
create something totally new andexciting.
I love those moments of being inthose spaces with other
creatives who aren't in my samemedium as me and seeing the way
that they talk about things,seeing the way that they loved a
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movie that I hated or seeing away that they look at a
photograph that I've taken andsee it in a totally different
light than the way that Ioriginally took it.
That is hugely inspiring.
Collaborating with othercreatives, it's like tapping
into a whole new universe ofcreative possibilities.
When you combine different artforms, perspectives and talents,
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you end up with a recipe for.
Magic and fire to happen.
Maybe you're just a masterbehind the lens, but you've
always wondered what it would itbe like to pair your photos with
some poetry or a soundtrack, orthere's a local photographer
here who has these beautifulphotographs and has worked with
a visual artist who has added inthe constellations up above
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them.
And they're these beautifulcombination pieces.
They're just such a.
Wonderful collaboration of abeautiful photographer's work
and a beautiful visual artistswork working together.
And collaboration is the onlyway to make something like that
happen.
And let's be honest.
Let's not forget about the joyof bouncing ideas around like a
game of hot potato.
When you collaborate with othercreatives, it's like playing a
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never ending game ofbrainstorming.
Ping-pong.
Except instead of, you know, Thetiny, tiny white little ball.
You're lobbing around ideas thatcould spark a wildfire of
inspiration.
It's all about building off eachother's energy.
Riffing on each other's conceptsand seeing where the creative
journey takes you.
This is how some of ourfavorite.
Comedy shows come to life.
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You get a bunch of creativepeople in a room together.
And they just started rippingjokes at each other.
They start ripping scenarios ateach other, and that's how these
pieces come to life.
And that's what you're doingwith these other creatives.
You're starting to rip ideas offof one another and seeing what
gets built.
And the best part about all ofthis collaborating is just about
making cool stuff.
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It's about building connectionsand community.
When you team up with othercreatives, you're not just
creating art.
You're forging friendships,swapping stories, and supporting
each other's dreams.
It's like having a built-incheerleading squad and they're
ready to just high five.
You, when you need that.
And they're ready to pick you upwhen you stumble.
And I know this is what Istruggle with the most.
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My anxiety.
Definitely gets the better of mea lot in these kinds of social
situations.
And I find it.
Really hard to reach out toother creatives to build and
grow those relationships.
And this can make it really hardto build deep connections with
people.
But when I do get the chance tobe out with other creatives
growing and building ideas, whenI can get past my anxieties and
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when I can fight through allthose social anxieties.
And be in that.
Bubbling messy brainstorm ofcreativity.
I feel more alive than basicallyany other time.
There's just something almostintoxicating about being in that
creative boiler.
We're amazing things aregenerated.
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So the next time you're feelingstuck in a creative rudder,
just.
Craving some good old fashionedcollaboration.
Don't be afraid to reach out toyour fellow creatives.
And not just your photographer,friends.
Sometimes fellow photographerscan't really help us out of a
rut because they're seeingthings the same way.
We see things, especially ifthey're people we really like to
shoot with.
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Try going out and jamming with amusician friend, even if you're
a terrible musician orbrainstorming a story with a
friend of yours, who's a writerand working on their screenplay.
Just try to find a newperspective from a fellow
creative, and you'll just beamazed at how that expands.
Your photographic brain andhones your creative eye for
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creating better imagery.
All right onto tip number three,which for me is really in line
with the previous and thatstepping outside of your comfort
zone.
This is where you will see yourphotographic voice grow and
morph and help you use yourimages to share something about
yourself, your ventures, the wayyou travel, or just anything
else.
It will be about your voice.
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So picture this.
You're not just grabbing yourcamera and venturing into new
photographic territory, butyou're also embracing new
experiences and challenges thatstretch you in unexpected ways.
So why step out of your comfortzone in both your art and your
life?
Well, because it's like fuelinga bonfire of inspiration that it
can night every aspect of yourbeing.
When you push past theboundaries of what feels safe
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and familiar, you're not justevolving as an artist.
You're also evolving as aperson.
Which evolves your art.
And then of all geo is a personand then involves you as an art.
It's a circle.
It turns into a massive, quickcircle.
Maybe you've been curious abouttrying your hand at painting, or
perhaps you've always wanted tolearn a musical instrument.
Who am I not give it a shot?
Stepping into new creativerealms can spark fresh ideas and
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perspectives that infuse yourphotography with newfound depth
and richness.
Like we were just talking about,about working with other
creatives.
And here's the real best partabout this stepping out of your
comfort zone.
Isn't just about making coolart.
It's about living life to thefullest and embracing that
thrill of the unknown.
Signing up for dance class,embarking on a solo backpacking
trip.
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I'm volunteering for a causeyou're passionate about every
new experience expands yourhorizons and nourishes your
soul.
It's like adding vibrantsplashes of color to the canvas
of your life.
Creating a masterpiece.
That's uniquely yours.
And then the lessons you learnand the courage you gained from
stepping out of your comfortzone in life, inevitably seep
into your art.
Infusing it with authenticity.
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Depth.
And vitality.
And by embracing these newthings, by saying yes, to doing
some new and difficult things.
You're going to inevitably buildyour creative.
And hone your creative eyebecause it's going to inspire
you and give you again, a newperspective on the world.
All right.
Tip number four, and this iswhere we really get into
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something specific for us travelphotographers.
And that's delving into theculture of an area we are
visiting.
This is like unlocking atreasure trove of stories,
traditions, and experiences.
That typically aren't found inany guidebook when you immerse
yourself in the richness oflocal cultures, you're not just
capturing photographs.
You're capturing the essence ofa place, its people and its
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spirit.
When you take the time toconnect with locals, learn about
their customs and participate intheir rituals.
You're granted access to a worldthat's rimming with authenticity
and wonder.
Maybe sharing a meal with afamily in a remote village,
joining in a traditional dancecelebration or learning a few
phrases in the local language.
Every interaction becomes abrush stoke in the tapestry of
your travel story.
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And here's the beauty of it.
Exploring local cultures.
Isn't just about checking itemsoff your travel bucket list.
It's about forging, genuineconnections and fostering mutual
respect.
It's about approaching eachencounter with humility,
curiosity.
And an open heart and mind.
Recognizing that you are a guestin someone else's home.
By listening, learning, andshowing appreciation for the
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richness, the local traditions.
You're not only honoring thepeople and the places you visit.
But you're also gaining a deeperunderstanding of the world and
your place in it.
We're building connections.
These stories and experiencesyou collect from your
attractions with local culturehas become the heartbeat of your
travel photography.
Your images are no longer justsnapshots of iconic landmarks.
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They become windows into thelives and souls of the people
who call these places home.
Too often I find in travelphotography.
We break down places.
To just.
They're icons.
Places just to become about.
Moraine lake, they just becomeabout the Eiffel tower.
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They just become about thepyramids.
We, we break these places downinto these.
Yes.
Beautiful and mind blowing.
Pieces of scenery or things thathumans have built.
But.
That's not all these places are,there are people who live here.
There are cultures.
And when we go out on thesetravel adventures and we see
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those cultures and we invest inthem and we learn about them and
we explore the richness of them.
That is really what travel isall about.
It's about building.
Not just ourselves, but also ourconnections to other people.
And inevitably, if you get toknow the culture of an area,
That will seep into yourphotography.
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You will be able to truly show aplace.
From yes, your perspective as anoutsider in it.
But with a nod towards thatculture, towards those people
towards honoring everything thatyou were learning from them.
And when you build these bridgesand you dig into these cultures,
you're going to be givenopportunities.
That you otherwise wouldn't be.
You will meet people and belike, Hey, do you want to come
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see this really cool viewpoint?
Or, Hey, do you want to come forthis amazing piece of food or
all these other sorts of things?
And if you can connect withpeople who are there and honor
them and respect them.
It's amazing.
What grows out of that.
So.
The next time that you're out,exploring the world with a
camera in your hand.
Don't just focus on those sites.
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Dive into the heart of localcultures and let their stories
unfold.
Before, not just your lens, butbefore your eyes as well.
After all the most unforgettabletravel stories are the ones that
celebrate the beauty anddiversity.
Of our shared humanity.
And of us as humans.
Oh, all right.
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Under my favorite tip on thislist.
Number five.
And that's starting a creativediary.
This is your ultimate travelcompanion for planning, shoots,
capturing ideas, sparkingcreativity.
Planning out everything in frontof you just it's your go-to
guide.
Think of it as your personalroadmap, guiding you through the
twists and turns of yourartistic journey.
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This can be a mixture of words,photos.
Other visuals.
Poetry, whatever you need it tobe.
Your creative diary becomes atreasure trove of inspiration.
That is ready to accompany youon every adventure and every
wild thing that you want tobuild.
So a creative diary is reallysimple.
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It's a place where you put yourcreative ideas.
That's it.
If you have a moment ofinspiration, you're like, I want
to shoot photo about this.
Jot it down.
If you see something that youfind absolutely stunning and it
inspires the way that you wantto shoot another image.
Take a photo of it and put it inthe diary.
If the physical diary.
Print it and put it in thediary.
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If you think of a compositionthat you want to try, put it in
there.
If you have a list of places youwant to go and shoot, put it in
there.
If you see an ad that inspiressomething you want put it in
there.
That is the purpose of this.
Start your creative diary andput it in there because then
when you need some inspiration,when you.
Want to find a way to shoot aphoto.
You can flip this back up and golike, oh yeah, that, that was
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what I wanted to do.
This is where you can startplanning, shoots as well.
This is where you want to writeout dates and times and
locations and light setups.
And so when you get to alocation, You're not guessing
and being like, oh, how do I doyou flip, open?
Your creative diary and you'relike, yeah, this is what we're
doing.
Or you're building this outbeforehand when you're building
your shot list.
And when you're building yourset list out.
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You start flipping through andyou're like, this is what we're
doing and you put it in there soyou can share it with the rest
of your team.
So when you're sketching outcompositions, jotting down,
location ideas, clickingsnippets of inspiration, where
magazines and websites here,creative diary is the place to
nurture your creative spark.
It's your.
Your space where you canbrainstorm, experiment and dream
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up new projects without any.
The limitations.
So, how do you get startedbuilding one of these.
First off, choose your medium.
Decide how you want to createyour creative diary, whether you
prefer a physical journal, adigital platform.
A combination of these choose amedium that feels comfortable
and accessible to you.
And something that you will wantto use and you feel.
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Inspired by.
I have tried to create these ina variety of formats.
And I find a physical one is theway for me to go.
Digitally, it gets lost in theclutter of my phone.
I tried to pull it up and I findit and I inevitably get
distracted using other apps anddoing other things.
And phone calls happen.
And I like the tactileness of aphysical diary and yeah, that
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means that I will actually printimages and put it in there.
I will cut out clippings.
I will take screenshots and putthem in there.
And I like being able to writethings out by hand and draw and
sketch ideas that come to me.
But that might not be for you.
And that's totally fine.
There is no right way or wrongway to keep a creative diary.
It is just for you.
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All right next, you need toactually set aside time.
You need to carve out thatdedicated time of your schedule
to work on your creative diary.
Whether it's a few minutes, eachday, a longer session, once a
week, consistency is key.
And keeping it with you is.
Difficult sometimes, but alsokind of key in those situations
where you can, because you don'tknow when inspiration is going
to hit you.
I have had.
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Ideas for how I want to executea shoot while I've been
showering while I've beenrunning.
I've seen a photograph of lifebeing out for a walk and be like
that is.
Awesome and broken it down andanalyzed and tried to figure out
where they shot it.
I've had lots of little tinyinspiration ideas hit me all
over the place.
So if you can keep somethingwith you.
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To be able to add those ideas tothat is amazing.
And one of the things that I'vefound has worked really well.
It's not keeping the biggerphysical journal with me all the
time.
Cause that would be a nightmare,but making notes on my phone
that I will set aside time toadd to the journal later.
Or I will take some time andhave an actual small physical
notebook with me and sketch outan idea while I'm sitting beside
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a river.
And then I will just take thatpage out, sticking in the book a
little bit later.
So just make sure you weresetting aside that time.
Now if this idea of keeping acreative diary feels
overwhelming at the start.
Totally understand.
So start small.
Just begin by jotting down a fewthoughts or ideas each day.
Or maybe snap, a quick photo ofsomething that catches your eye.
And as you get more comfortablewith the process, you can
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gradually expand and experimentwith different techniques and
formats and things that you canadd.
And maybe you want to add acolor palette that catches your
eye, and you want to startplaying with color theory within
there and getting some.
Colored pens and really goingwild with adding some other
pieces to it.
And that is awesome.
But at the beginning, Startsmall.
If that feels like how that'sgoing to be accessible to you.
If you want to go hog in andjust go for it.
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By all rights, jump in there.
Now also, don't be afraid toexperiment and play with
different medium styles andtechniques in your creative
diary, whether that's sketching,writing, collaging.
Adding photos doing multimediapieces, whatever.
Let your imagination run wild.
There are no rules orlimitations.
The only limit is what you placeon this.
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It's only your limit at thispoint.
All right.
Now, this is really important.
Periodically, take a step backto reflect on.
Your creative diary and evaluatewhat's working.
And what's not, it takes thattime to reflect and revise.
Are there any recurring themesor patterns emerging?
Are there areas where you'd liketo delve deeper or try something
new?
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I use these reflections to guideyour further entries and keep
your creative journey.
Evolving.
Are there pieces where you'relike, I remember that I want to
learn more about this.
Or that color scheme was reallycool.
I need to try and incorporatethat into a shoot.
It's your chance to really seewhat pieces of creativity
flowing through you.
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Okay.
Now you can also use this as aspringboard, your creative
diary.
Isn't just a place to recordideas.
It's a springboard for action.
When you.
You come across a particularlyinspiring idea or concept, don't
leave it languishing on thepage.
Use it as a jumping off pointfor your next creative project
or photo shoot, like your diary,be the catalyst that propels
your ideas from the realm ofimagination into this realm.
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Of reality and it doesn't matterhow crazy the idea is.
You can probably bring it tolife.
There are some spectacularthings that people are doing in
front of us.
One photographer out here.
Took an.
Ariel rope artist.
And had her hanging off theglacier shooting from inside the
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glacier cave with her hangingout in front of it with
mountains in behind her.
And this was all physically setup the swimming really easy to
do in post shoot her in astudio.
Take a photo inside the glaciergave done.
But no, they went out, they hungropes.
They set people up.
They did all these things tocreate this.
Mind blowing combination of thiswoman's beautiful aerial
artistry with his spectacularimagery and together, they
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created something.
Really spectacular.
So don't just put creativethings in here and then flip
along and keep going.
Use it.
And while it's important to useyour creative diary regularly,
don't be afraid to adapt andevolve your approach as needed.
If you find that a particularformat or technique.
Isn't working for you.
Don't force it.
Stay open to experimentation, bewilling to adjust your diary to
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suit your changing needs andpreferences.
We grow, we change, we evolve.
This should grow and change andevolve with you to be something
that you want to use.
And then the most important partof this, don't forget to
celebrate your progress andaccomplishments along the way.
Whether it's completing aproject overcoming a creative
block, or simply just stickingto your diary routine for a week
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straight.
Take time to acknowledge andcelebrate your achievements.
After all.
Every step forward, no matterhow small.
It brings you closer torealizing your creative visions.
And the best part.
This is not just a record ofwhere you've been, but a roadmap
to where you could be going.
Whether you're embarking on anew project, planning your next
adventure, or simply daydreamingabout future possibilities, your
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creative diaries there to guideyou every step of the way.
Remember.
Your creative dairy, personalspace for exploration and
expression.
There is no right or wrong wayto do it.
The most important thing is tohave fun and let your creativity
flow.
And here we go onto our sixthand final tip and probably the
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hardest.
And most impactful one on thislist.
Seeking feedback and critique.
Yup.
It might sound a tad daunting,but trust me, it's like
discovering a gold mine ofinsights that can take your
photography to the next level.
Seeking feedback from peers,mentors, or online communities.
Isn't just about getting a paton the back.
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When we share our work withothers, we're not just fishing
for compliments.
We're casting our net widetogether, different perspectives
and fresh ideas.
It's like exploring a vast oceanof knowledge.
So don't be shy, embrace thefeedback and let it guide you on
your creative journey.
And you don't have to take everypiece of feedback.
In that you receive, you canpick and choose that feedback
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and you can choose to listen ornot and add what helps you and
throw away what doesn't.
That being said.
How do we actually go aboutasking for feedback on our work?
It's a valid question and onethat can feel a bit intimidating
at first.
But don't fear it.
Approaching some of her feedbackdoesn't have to be
nerve-wracking.
In fact, it can be a greatopportunity to connect with
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fellow photographers and learnfrom their expertise.
So.
First choose your audiencewisely.
Look for people whose opinionsyou trust and respect.
Whether they're fellowphotographers who work, you
admire mentors who have guidedyou in the past are members of
online communities known fortheir constructive feedback.
It is important that you trustthe people, giving you this
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feedback.
And remember when you'rereaching out for feedback, be
clear and specific about whatyou're looking for.
Are you seeking input oncomposition, lighting, editing,
storytelling.
Providing some context andguidance can help the person
giving feedback, focus theirattention, and provide more
targeted insights.
And remember feedback is a bitof a two-way street.
You need to be open-minded andreceptive to constructive
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criticism, but also be willingto ask questions and engage in
dialogue.
Sometimes the most valuableinsights come from discussing
different perspectives andexploring alternative
approaches.
So if you disagree with whatsomebody has said about your
image and how it could beimproved, Think about why you
disagree with them and thenthink about maybe.
Asking a little bit more andasking if they can explain
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something more in detail andmaybe there's, there's something
there that can actually reallyhelp you improve.
And then honestly, don't forgetto express gratitude for the
feedback you receive.
It can be a simple thank you.
Or a more detailed response,just.
Acknowledge the time and effortsomeone has put into helping you
improve your work.
And that just goes a long way tohonestly, growing your
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connections in the photographycommunity and a little bit of
universal karmic.
Goodness for you.
And it's not just aboutreceiving feedback.
It's about giving it to, byoffering constructive critiques
to our fellow photographers.
We not only help them improve,but also sharpen our own eye for
detail.
Plus sharing our thoughts andinsights fosters a sense of
camaraderie and support withinthat photography community.
(26:30):
And that's really, trulyspecial.
And they're going to be morewilling to give you feedback as
well.
This is a two way street givingand taking.
So make seeking and givingfeedback a regular part of your
creative practice.
It can be casual chats withfriends online forms, formal
portfolio reviews.
Just actively seek outopportunities to learn from
others and share our expertise.
(26:50):
All right.
And that's it.
Now as we wrap up today'sepisode, I want to leave you
with a bit of a spark ofinspiration to fuel your
creative journey.
Remember.
Developing your creative eye.
Isn't just about masteringtechnical skills.
It's about embracing curiosity,exploring new perspectives.
And nurturing your passion forstorytelling through
photography.
So, whether you're stepping outof your comfort zone,
(27:12):
collaborating with fellowcreatives or immersing yourself
in the richness of localcultures.
No, that every step you take isa step closer to unlocking your
full potential is photographer.
Hey.
If you have any ideas or topicsyou'd like to hear about on
future episodes.
I'd love to hear them from you.
Drop me a message.
Share your thoughts with me.
This is the reason I do this.
I like the collaborations andthe connections we can have
(27:34):
together.
So on Instagram, it's RobertMassey photography, or you can
go onto my website at.
Robert Massey photography.ca.
And you'll be able to find myemail there as well.
And lastly, if you've enjoyedtoday's episode and found it
helpful in your creativejourney, I'd be thrilled.
If you could take some time torate and review the podcast and
help some other people find it.
Your feedback means the world tome.
(27:54):
And.
I don't do this as a way to makemoney or anything.
I do this as a way, just to talkabout photography with some
folks and bring some joy andinspiration out there just to
get some more wonderful art outin the world.
All right.
Get out there and go see thisbig, beautiful world of ours.
Let's adventure.
Bye for now.