July 24, 2023 • 24 mins
Welcome back to the long-awaited return of the Travel and Adventure Photography School podcast! I'm your host, Robert Massey, and I can't express how excited I am to bring this show back to life after a 16-month break. Get ready for a fresh perspective as we take this podcast out of the studio and into the great outdoors.
In this episode, recorded beside the stunning Bow River in Banff National Park, I open up about the challenges of creative burnout that led to the podcast's hiatus. As a full-time content creator and photographer in one of my favorite places on Earth, Banff National Park, I found myself struggling to balance work, creativity, and personal time. Creative burnout hit me hard, and I had to reevaluate my approach to find the joy in my craft again.
Throughout the episode, I share my journey of self-discovery, reflecting on the signs of creative burnout, the toll it took on my relationships, and the impact it had on my photography and work. I reveal the strategies and tools that helped me overcome creative burnout, including giving myself space to step away from creativity when needed and finding a new creative outlet through drawing.
I also discuss the importance of reflection and connecting with supportive individuals during challenging times. By reaching out to those who understand and care about us, we can gain valuable insights and rekindle our creative fire.
If you've ever experienced creative burnout or simply want to learn more about maintaining a healthy and sustainable creative journey, this episode is for you. Join us as we venture into the great outdoors, explore new perspectives, and inspire each other in the world of travel and adventure photography.
Thank you for being part of our community, and let's embark on this exciting new chapter together. Adventure awaits! 🌄📸
Join us bi-weekly as we explore the world through the lens, uncovering hidden gems, and sharing insider tips to elevate your photography game. From capturing breathtaking landscapes to immersive cultural portraits, each episode is packed with practical hacks, creative ideas, and inspiring stories to fuel your wanderlust and unleash your creative potential.
Subscribe now and join our global community of adventure seekers and photography enthusiasts on the Travel and Adventure Photography School!
Find all the show notes and connect with Robert:
Website: robertmasseyphotography.ca
Instagram: @robertmasseyphotography
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robert (00:01):
Welcome back.
Welcome back.
Welcome back everybody.
Whew.
That feels good to say.
After 16 months away from behindthe microphone.
I'm Robert Massey.
This is the Travel ImagePhotography School, and I am
beyond stoked that we arebringing this back to you, that
we have found a way to bringthis podcast back live cuz damn,
(00:22):
did I miss bringing this outhere.
Did I miss talking to all y'alland discussing creativity and
some of the ways we can bringmore art and more photography
and more travel and adventureinto the world around us.
One of the big things you'llnotice is this, audio's gonna
sound way, way different thananything else I've produced.
That is because I'm outta thestudio, I'm outta the office.
I'm not actually behind a mic infront of a computer I am
(00:45):
literally on a pathway besidethe Bow River in beautiful and
fantastic Banff National Park.
I'm walking right now up toSurprise Corner staring at the
Banff Springs Hotel.
I can't ask for a better placeto be able to talk about
adventure and creativity.
This is one of the ways that Ihave discovered that we will be
able to start doing this podcastagain, is making it a little
(01:07):
less polished, a little lessfinished.
You're gonna hear some birds,some other people, some cars,
hopefully some water and somewind and some beautiful nature
sounds as well.
What that means is we're gonnabe doing podcasts while I am
canoeing, while I'm out walking,maybe a few times when I'm out
for trail runs.
Who knows?
We're gonna get me out on thesetrails and giving away some
knowledge and some information,doing some interviews with folks
(01:30):
out in the great outdoors.
A lot of it taking place in thebeautiful Banff National Park.
Really one of the big thingsthat happened two and a half
years ago for me was taking on adream job for me where I get to
work with, manage and createcontent in Banff National Park.
This means I get to work withbeautiful and fantastic
(01:51):
creators, wonderful models andpeople.
I'm running photo shoots andvideo shoots and getting to live
in one of my favorite places onthe entire planet.
I couldn't ask for a betterplace to be, but what it does
mean is I ran into a bit ofcreative burnout.
My full-time day job is creatingcontent.
(02:11):
It's thinking about content,producing photos producing
video, working through long-termstrategy around those things,
and that meant that somethinghad to start giving.
I tried to keep running thepodcast almost for the first
year that I was in thisposition, and eventually it
caught up to me.
Part of the reason I wanna be inBanff, and part of the reason I
love doing the type ofphotography that I do is I get
(02:33):
to adventure and I get to be inthe mountains and I get to be
outdoors but having a job thatdedicates that much time and
creative energy and then alsoneeding to produce my own
photography work on the side andediting.
I didn't have enough time to beoutdoors and enjoying creating
the podcast and creating photosand doing everything.
And something had to give.
(02:54):
And the podcast was, was thething that gave.
I'm inside a lot of my day whenI'm not in productions and
shooting and when I'm done thatI don't wanna be sitting in
front of a computer anymore.
I wanna be out on the trails andI wanna be out on the water.
And so we've found a way that wethink will work really, really
well to be able to get thispodcast back up and running.
Cuz, I've missed it so much.
(03:14):
It's, been something I talkabout all the time and I miss
being able to discuss thingswith everybody and create
community around this and.
And talk about everything I'velearned in 10, 15 years of being
in the creative industry.
So yeah, wanted to get thisgoing again.
All right, so let's talk aboutthe actual reason that all of
(03:36):
this went on hiatus.
And that was creative burnout.
A year and a half of runningphotography business running
this podcast, all the learningsaround it and working full-time
directly in the creativeindustry, setting up
productions, writing blogs,running content, doing all those
kind of pieces.
And it was nothing butcreativity 24 7.
(03:56):
And it admittedly led to thepoint where I didn't start
running out of ideasnecessarily.
I stopped wanting to create newthings and I stopped wanting to
challenge myself to learn andgrow and present the best
possible work that I could inthis podcast, in my photography
and in my day-to-day work.
What that meant was everythingkind of suffered.
(04:18):
And so what I want to talk abouttoday, is the things I have done
over the last year and a bit toreally work through those issues
with creative burnout, toidentify when it was occurring
and how I helped overcome this.
Now, not at all is this meant asa replacement for properly
talking to a mental healthprofessional or doing your own
(04:40):
work or finding the pieces thathelp for you.
But what I'm hoping that thisdoes is this helps you identify
when you're hitting a point ofcreative burnout.
It helps you avoid hitting thosepoints.
And if you feel like you're inthere, it gives you some
strategies and tools that youcan try.
And if this isn't somethingyou've experienced and this
isn't something that you havesuffered with, awesome, super
stoked for you.
But there are a lot of people inthe creative industry who do
(05:01):
suffer from creative burnout anddon't feel like they have
anywhere they can go to, to dealwith it and to have somebody to
talk to and listen to openly andhave some ideas that this is
what's happening to them.
Some people just think it'slike, oh, I've hit a creative
wall, or, oh, I just don't havethe ideas anymore.
That's not at all the case.
What this really is, is it's amental health issue that's going
(05:22):
on, and it's actually somethingbecause creatives need space.
We need downtime.
We need our brains to rest andnot constantly be in the mode of
creating something to be able tocome up with the best possible
ideas.
All right, so let's get into it.
Firstly, identifying creativeburnout.
So I just kind of addressed it alittle bit right off the bat,
but really it's when you startto notice a few different
(05:43):
things.
And for me, these were all very,very personal.
One is that I noticed that mywant to go out and create images
was dwindling.
I didn't feel like carrying mycamera with me places.
I didn't really wanna deal withthe weight of it and the size of
it, and having it on my back andhaving to stop and shoot and do
all those things.
When I was done work for theday.
(06:04):
When I was done being in thatcreative space, I wanted to put
on my running vest or put on mybike helmet or snowshoes or
whatever time of year it was,and just leave.
I didn't want to take my camerawith me, and that was an
interesting moment.
That's one of the few timessince I took up photography that
I didn't want my camera with me,that I didn't want it to be
front center with everythingthat I was doing.
(06:26):
And that was weird.
That was a struggle, and it tooka long time to identify why that
was happening.
At first, I saw it's like, oh, Ijust wanna be able to run
faster.
I wanna be able to go further.
I don't want to risk breakingthe camera if I slip and fall.
But really what it amounted towas I, I wanted away from the
creative space.
I wanted to be able to shut mybrain down and just, just go and
not have to worry about lookingfor those perfect angles and not
(06:47):
have to worry about anything.
And it took a while to come tothe fact that that's okay.
I live in the mountains.
I live to explore in themountains.
And what that really means isthat sometimes I'm gonna go on a
big quest and I don't want thatgiant camera with me.
I don't want to have to thinkabout taking photos.
Sometimes I just want to be inthe moment and experience it,
and I want to just, run a trailand see how fast I can do it.
(07:10):
I wanna be able to focus purelyon the physical aspect and being
there in the moment.
So the first thing that youwanna know is, is yeah, when you
start to identify that you don'twant to be doing your creative
endeavor, and you don't wannapick up your camera or you don't
wanna pick up the pen orwhatever it is that is your
creative outlet and you don'twant to be doing it anymore.
And then to come to terms withthe fact that that's actually
okay, that is one of the waysthat you can actually combat
(07:33):
creative burnout is that you,you just stop doing that thing
all the time.
So there's nothing wrong withthat.
It doesn't mean you don't likethat creativity anymore.
It doesn't mean that you don'twant to be doing it.
It just means that you need alittle bit of a break.
And to give yourself that graceto be able to stop and breathe a
little bit.
(07:55):
So, identify that you don'twanna be doing that creativity
thing anymore all the time andbe okay with that and give
yourself the space because Ipromise you it's gonna come back
again.
Like now, I'm out with my cameraquite frequently.
I'm shooting a lot, not just forwork, but personally I'm heading
out when I get the chance.
And it's, it's fabulous.
But I also know that like today,I didn't have my camera with me
at all.
I was up at Lake Minniwanka,climbed Tunnel Mountain, went
(08:18):
for a long bike ride and mycamera was nowhere with me.
I took a couple photos of myphone and that was it.
But I just wanted a day where Iwasn't thinking about my camera
being with me The next thingthat I noticed that was
happening is when I did need tocreate things, it all became
very routine.
There was nothing really uniqueor interesting, and I wasn't
(08:39):
wanting to create somethingdifferent.
And I really noticed this inparticular with my photography.
So I'd take my camera out andI'd start looking for angles and
it used to be that I would crawlon the ground and I would lay
down, I'd climb up on hugerocks, I'd dangle the camera
over the ledges of bridges anddo all these other fun things.
(09:00):
And that kind of stopped.
I'd take my camera, I would be,oh, this is pretty, snap a
photo, maybe squat a little bitso it wasn't quite at eye level,
but, I wasn't getting in there.
I wasn't getting dirty.
I wasn't trying to find thethings that represent a unique
perspective.
And that, spread over.
It started in my personalphotography and then went into
my day-to-day work as well.
I find that, we'd need to writea blog or contact a
(09:21):
photographer, create a shotlist, do anything like that.
And, when I first started, I hadall these ideas just pumping
through my head constantly.
Things that we could do, wherewe could shoot, who we could
shoot with, how we can includepeople, everything.
It was spectacular.
It was full of energy, but itkind of stopped and then I
started realizing that, oh mygoodness, I have to find one
more person.
I have to hunt down thesemodels.
(09:42):
And everything just became thisdrag.
I didn't, I didn't even enjoywanting to start thinking about
creating these productionsbecause instead of finding life
and energy in them, I wasfinding them just to be a giant
suck on my energy.
And that's something that Ireally needed to identify.
It took a long time to realizewhat was going on, and it didn't
(10:03):
actually clue in to that thiswas the issue right off the bat.
It took a little bit and itactually took some conversations
with a few of my colleagues andwith my wife to, to identify
where I was feeling stuck andhow I was feeling stuck.
And.
I knew that there was somethinggoing on and I knew that there
was something a little bit funnygoing on with my creativity, but
(10:23):
I couldn't put a finger on it.
And I needed that outside voiceto, to look at my work, my
professional work in photographyand at the organization I work
at.
And it took some people kind ofgoing, Hey, you know, where's
that spark?
Where's that fire?
Where are those things that thatdrew you into this work and drew
you to doing this?
So, if you're feeling off, ifyou're feeling like your
creativity's not quite there, ifit's a day, great rest.
(10:46):
Go for a hike.
Have a bath, whatever it is thatyou do to relax your brain.
But if it's a week, if it's twoweeks, and if things are just
feeling funny.
Get up the courage to asksomebody that you trust and
somebody that you know is goingto listen to you, somebody that
you know is going to want tohelp, and somebody that will
give you an honest answer.
I find that there's so manypeople that I love dearly in my
(11:08):
life, but I would never askthese questions of, because they
would never tell me honestly,what is going on.
They would just be, oh, it'sbeautiful, it's fabulous.
And I love those supportivepeople.
But in this kind of situation,that's not what you need.
You need somebody who's gonna bethe honest truth of like, yeah,
that kind of sucks.
Like, what were you doing?
What's going on?
Where's your brain at?
And if that's a friend that youhave, your partner, a colleague,
(11:30):
it doesn't really matter.
It needs to be somebody that youknow will give you an honest
answer and that you trust andthat you're open, willing to
listen to.
So, have some open conversationsabout your work.
Reach out to people and be like,Hey, this is how I'm feeling.
And, you know, that might helpyou identify what is going on
that might help you identifythat there, there might be a
little bit of creative burnoutgoing on for you.
(11:51):
So alongside that I actuallyrealized that my relationships
with friends, my colleagueswere, were actually not doing as
well.
I moved to the mountains and Iwas surrounded by these people
who live very similar lifestylesto me, who are really interested
in very similar things to me.
And I really struggled toconnect with people out here.
I really struggled to buildrelationships outside of that
direct work product where youhave to work with people.
(12:13):
And I actually spent that firstsummer out here exploring a lot
by myself because I, I wasstruggling to find that balance
and to find where I fit in withpeople and where things were
going.
And once I put the podcast onhiatus and once I started to
identify a creative burnout, myrelationships with my colleagues
and with my partner and with myother friends really flourished.
(12:37):
Last summer we were adventuringa lot and exploring all over the
place, shooting weddings anddoing all that kind of fun
stuff.
And what that really showed mewas that I wasn't able to fully
connect with those who werearound me because I was in such
a difficult situation with myown mental health and with my
own creative burnout.
It actually was preventing mefrom engaging with people and
being real and honest andupfront, and it was something
(13:00):
that was just kind of nibblingaway at me.
And, and people who didn't knowme, didn't know that.
They just like, oh, and we just,we just didn't connect.
They're lovely people.
I could tell they thought I wasa lovely human and we just, we
couldn't connect and it'sbecause I just did not have any
more bandwidth to be withpeople.
And so if you find thatsomething else that's going on
for you, if there's people thatyou're struggling to connect
(13:20):
with people or there's peoplethat you had connected with and
they're seeming to be pullingback from you a little bit, it
could be a sign that there's alittle bit of creative burnout
going on for you Now that's whatI kind of started to notice.
For you, the, the signs thatyou're hitting creative burnout
could be entirely different.
Or they could line up reallywell.
It's, it's a giant mental healthgame without being in your shoes
(13:41):
and being there with you and howyou understand things you can't
know for sure.
And so if you feel like this issomething you're struggling
with, if you even somewhatidentify with what's what I'm
saying right now, you reallyneed to go and meet up with a
mental health professional andhave a real conversation and
they'll be able to help you themost.
But I can offer you some skillsthat have worked really well for
(14:03):
me.
So we talked about the first oneoff the bat.
It's being okay with not wantingto be creative all the time and
actually giving yourself spaceto not be creative all the time.
And this is really hard,especially when creativity is
your job.
And to find that balance thatyou need.
Be okay not having your camerawith you.
Be okay, not looking for anglesand shooting all the time and
living a little bit more in themoment than a lot of us
(14:25):
photographers tend to.
I know we're always looking forthat perfect light and that
perfect angle and that perfectspot, and that definitely for me
anyway, takes me out of momentsa lot, especially if I'm biking
or running or doing somethingthat's a little bit more high
activity.
I don't wanna be also lookingfor angles while I'm, while I'm
biking down a trail.
I just want to enjoy the factthat I'm on some dirt and I'm
(14:45):
flying down and it's, it's funand I'm laughing my head off.
Number two, reach out to peoplewho support you.
That is going to be a huge, hugebenefit for you.
We've talked a lot about thatalready.
Number three is actually,weirdly enough for me finding a
totally different creativeoutlet.
Photography is my main way ofcreating and videography is
(15:09):
along the side there too.
I cut videos and I'm starting tolearn how to film things and I
actually had to turn around andlook for a totally different
outlet for my creativity.
So, a while back I actually tookup drawing during the pandemic
and I kind of turned back tothat a little bit.
I started bringing out a notepadand a pencil, and what I found
is that, drawing for me issomething that I have to look
(15:31):
inwards to do, not outwards.
And so, photography andvideography for me are about
capturing what's in front of meand what's going on in the
things that I'm documenting.
But drawing is not, I'm notdrawing a landscape that's
sitting in front of me.
I'm creating a vision in myhead.
So it's a very internal process,whereas my other activities and
creativity were all external.
(15:53):
And so for me to build somethinginternally was a huge break for
that other part of my creativitybrain, and still scratch that
itch of wanting to makesomething and be out there
creating.
All right.
And the next thing that I foundreally helped was making space
for reflection.
Making space for reflection isabout finding out what truly
(16:14):
matters to you and looking backon that, on those moments.
So it could be reflection everyday.
It could be a reflection at theend of a week at the end of a
shoot, whatever it is, butmaking space for you to
recollect your own internalthoughts and not just constantly
have outside input coming in.
I find that a lot of the times Iam always engaged with something
(16:36):
and it's always an externalinput.
That's one of the biggest thingsI found was taking time to have
some internal input going on andto be just quiet, even for five
minutes and just actively thinkabout what's going on around me.
You could do this as meditation,you could do this as a journal.
(16:57):
You could, you know, justmonologue into a camera if
that's helpful for you.
Whatever it is that's going tohelp you have those moments of
reflection, you need to do them.
And I actually found that when Istarted doing those, that is
really when the creative tapstarted turning back on.
For me, that is really when Iwas like, ah, there's an Aurora
show, it's 3:00 AM but I gottago out.
(17:18):
Like, yeah, I have to get up forwork in four hours, but come on,
like, look at this show.
Whereas previous to this pastMarch, April, I would see the
Aurora and it would be 10o'clock at night, I'd be like,
oh, I should go do that, but Idon't want to.
I wanna stay home.
But once I started making spacefor that reflection and working
on, looking back on my day andactively understanding what
(17:39):
impacted me, what I liked, whatI didn't like, all of a sudden I
was hopping outta bed to, to goand shoot things and to be up at
2:00 AM And it was amazing.
It made a world of differencefor me.
So I fully suggest you findsomething that works for you.
It could be journaling, couldjust be internal reflection,
could be meditation.
Just something that works foryou to really be able to focus
(18:00):
on yourself.
All right.
I am a huge proponent ofcreativity challenges.
We've talked a lot about that insome other episodes, and, I
challenged myself when I'm outshooting a lot too.
I was a terribleastrophotographer before moving
to the mountains, and now I am amildly terrible
astrophotographer.
I have definitely gottensignificantly better, but I'm
(18:20):
definitely still not great atit.
And so I'm challenging myself tomake that better and I'm, I'm
getting there and I want to getthere and that's where I'm
working towards.
But when you're in a moment ofcreative burnout, when you are
in that space of creativity ishard, the creative tap is turned
off, you just can't do it, andyou're struggling to even output
when you are shooting, if youare even out shooting.
(18:41):
You don't want to beencountering those challenges.
What you're doing to yourselfthere at that point is literally
setting up roadblocks to yourcreativity.
And sometimes those challengescan be a great way of forcing
you to think differently andforcing you to engage.
But that's when you feel likeyour creativity needs a boost,
(19:03):
not when you are at a point oftotal creative burnout, which
is, I do not want to be doingthis thing.
And you are actively resistingand fighting against it.
So challenge yourself when youfeel like your work has become
stagnant.
Do not challenge yourself whenyou're in a moment of creative
burnout.
Instead, when you feel likeyou're ready to pick up that
camera again, when you feel likeyou're ready to get back out and
(19:24):
start creating again andadventuring again and carrying
that camera with you, shoot whatyou love, shoot what gives you
joy.
Shoot what inspires you.
It doesn't matter if it's gonnabe good or bad or anything like
that.
What you want to do is you wantto take that camera up and you
want to actively document thethings that matter the most, the
things that literally fill youwith life.
(19:46):
I thoroughly enjoy shootingastro photos.
But if I would have stepped intothat challenge of wanting to
learn how to do it andstruggling with it, and then
seeing admittedly the horrendousresults that were coming out of
learning how to shoot the Auroraand learning how to shoot the
stars then I probably would'vekept putting my camera down over
(20:06):
and over again because Iwould've kept telling myself,
I'm terrible.
This is horrendous.
I don't know why I'm doing this.
So instead I actually turnedaround and I found some people
to photograph.
I got to do a few engagementshoots.
I did a couple of weddings, andreally what I find truly amazing
is being able to take photos ofpeople in amazing spaces and
helping them tell those stories.
(20:27):
And that's what really brings melife.
I like shooting landscapes.
I like doing all the othertypical photography things, but
man, working with other peopleto create something, that's what
just lights me up.
In a beautiful way.
I come away from a 14 hour shootday.
That's been huge, and we've beenon site for a long time.
We've been bouncing all over thepark, and I'm just thrilled,
(20:50):
like I'm happy to get up forwork again the next morning and
bounce around into the office,and I just want to be there and
that's what I want for you.
If it's being quiet and shootinglandscapes and running some long
exposures, or if it's astro orwhatever it is that gives you
creative joy, go and do it.
That is going to be the bestthing you can do once you, feel
(21:11):
ready to start being creativeagain.
And give yourself grace withthose images.
Give yourself grace with whatyou're making and how you're
feeling about it, and understandthat you're coming out of a
point where you're not feelingyour best, you're not doing your
best, and honestly, the work youcreate might not be its best.
But the point isn't the work atthis point.
(21:31):
The point is to engage yourselfand engage that creativity and
find joy in it.
And that's really what I'veworked on in the last year and a
half or so, was actually justfinding the joy in creativity
again, and finding the joy inwanting to be out and shooting
things.
So yeah, that's it.
That's, that's what I've beenstruggling with for the last
(21:52):
year and a half.
That's why this podcast went onhiatus for so long and why we
had to fight to find a way tobring it back because.
One of the things that brings mejoy in my creativity is talking
about it with people andengaging a community of people
to bring more art into this big,beautiful world of ours.
And getting to talk about it andhearing your stories back about
your creativity and yourphotography and your travels and
(22:13):
your adventures.
That's why I had to bring thisback.
I was missing all of you, and Iwas missing this community in
this space.
So, yeah.
Let's keep it going.
I promise.
In the future these will not beepisodes all about mental health
and things that are going on,but I thought this was a great
way to start to come back againand to have this conversation
because our mental health isimportant and it makes a huge
(22:36):
difference to everything.
It's one of the most importantthings you can do.
And so work on that, build it,and you'll actually find that by
building up your mental space,you're gonna become a way
stronger creative.
All right.
That's it.
I hope you enjoyed this firstwalking and outdoors.
You can hear the train coming atthe end of this episode.
I hope you enjoyed the first onethat was outdoors and walking
(22:57):
around.
There's gonna be a lot more ofthese coming in the near future.
We are going to start doingepisodes where we bring people
onto the podcast a lot more soyou get the chance to learn from
some of these spectacularcreatives that are around this
park and that are all over theworld.
There are so many diverse andamazing opinions out there, and
thoughts and perspectives onthings I wanna bring as many of
(23:19):
them to you as I possibly can.
And we're gonna be doing'emoutside.
We're gonna be doing them whilewe're out on adventures.
And so some of these episodes,you're gonna hear us talking
while we're on a trail.
Some of them you're gonna hearus talking while we're sitting
at the top of a mountain or in acanoe or just, you know, on a
patio somewhere, chilling andhanging out.
But if you're anything like me,you're not standing still while
(23:43):
you're listening to somethinglike this.
You're not waiting for life tocome towards you.
You are actively on your feetand you're going and you're
pursuing after something.
And so I figure let's bring thatmentality to this space, and I
hope you enjoy this journey withme.
And that's it.
Thank you for coming back onthis journey with me.
I am super stoked that we get tobe here and doing this.
(24:06):
And yeah, if you have anythingthat you wanna hear about, talk
about, understand a little bitbetter, a creative industry that
you'd like to look into a littlebit more, or type of creative
you'd like to hear a little bitmore from, let me know.
I'll see what I can do.
I'll see if I can arrangeanything.
You can reach me on Instagram atRobert Massey Photography.
You can find all the othercontact information on my
website atrobertmasseyphotography.ca.
Reach out, even if it's just tosay, Hey, or if you got a
(24:28):
question or anything.
I love talking to people aboutthis stuff and my goal here is
to encourage more people tobring their art out into the
world.
So I'd love to hear from you andlove to hear about your travels
and your adventures and yourcreativity.
Thank you so much.
I'm so looking forward to wherethis journey goes.
Let's adventure.
Bye for now.
Welcome back.
Welcome back.
Welcome back everybody.
Whew.
That feels good to say.
After 16 months away from behindthe microphone.
I'm Robert Massey.
This is the Travel ImagePhotography School, and I am
beyond stoked that we arebringing this back to you, that
we have found a way to bringthis podcast back live cuz damn,
(00:22):
did I miss bringing this outhere.
Did I miss talking to all y'alland discussing creativity and
some of the ways we can bringmore art and more photography
and more travel and adventureinto the world around us.
One of the big things you'llnotice is this, audio's gonna
sound way, way different thananything else I've produced.
That is because I'm outta thestudio, I'm outta the office.
I'm not actually behind a mic infront of a computer I am
(00:45):
literally on a pathway besidethe Bow River in beautiful and
fantastic Banff National Park.
I'm walking right now up toSurprise Corner staring at the
Banff Springs Hotel.
I can't ask for a better placeto be able to talk about
adventure and creativity.
This is one of the ways that Ihave discovered that we will be
able to start doing this podcastagain, is making it a little
(01:07):
less polished, a little lessfinished.
You're gonna hear some birds,some other people, some cars,
hopefully some water and somewind and some beautiful nature
sounds as well.
What that means is we're gonnabe doing podcasts while I am
canoeing, while I'm out walking,maybe a few times when I'm out
for trail runs.
Who knows?
We're gonna get me out on thesetrails and giving away some
knowledge and some information,doing some interviews with folks
(01:30):
out in the great outdoors.
A lot of it taking place in thebeautiful Banff National Park.
Really one of the big thingsthat happened two and a half
years ago for me was taking on adream job for me where I get to
work with, manage and createcontent in Banff National Park.
This means I get to work withbeautiful and fantastic
(01:51):
creators, wonderful models andpeople.
I'm running photo shoots andvideo shoots and getting to live
in one of my favorite places onthe entire planet.
I couldn't ask for a betterplace to be, but what it does
mean is I ran into a bit ofcreative burnout.
My full-time day job is creatingcontent.
(02:11):
It's thinking about content,producing photos producing
video, working through long-termstrategy around those things,
and that meant that somethinghad to start giving.
I tried to keep running thepodcast almost for the first
year that I was in thisposition, and eventually it
caught up to me.
Part of the reason I wanna be inBanff, and part of the reason I
love doing the type ofphotography that I do is I get
(02:33):
to adventure and I get to be inthe mountains and I get to be
outdoors but having a job thatdedicates that much time and
creative energy and then alsoneeding to produce my own
photography work on the side andediting.
I didn't have enough time to beoutdoors and enjoying creating
the podcast and creating photosand doing everything.
And something had to give.
(02:54):
And the podcast was, was thething that gave.
I'm inside a lot of my day whenI'm not in productions and
shooting and when I'm done thatI don't wanna be sitting in
front of a computer anymore.
I wanna be out on the trails andI wanna be out on the water.
And so we've found a way that wethink will work really, really
well to be able to get thispodcast back up and running.
Cuz, I've missed it so much.
(03:14):
It's, been something I talkabout all the time and I miss
being able to discuss thingswith everybody and create
community around this and.
And talk about everything I'velearned in 10, 15 years of being
in the creative industry.
So yeah, wanted to get thisgoing again.
All right, so let's talk aboutthe actual reason that all of
(03:36):
this went on hiatus.
And that was creative burnout.
A year and a half of runningphotography business running
this podcast, all the learningsaround it and working full-time
directly in the creativeindustry, setting up
productions, writing blogs,running content, doing all those
kind of pieces.
And it was nothing butcreativity 24 7.
(03:56):
And it admittedly led to thepoint where I didn't start
running out of ideasnecessarily.
I stopped wanting to create newthings and I stopped wanting to
challenge myself to learn andgrow and present the best
possible work that I could inthis podcast, in my photography
and in my day-to-day work.
What that meant was everythingkind of suffered.
(04:18):
And so what I want to talk abouttoday, is the things I have done
over the last year and a bit toreally work through those issues
with creative burnout, toidentify when it was occurring
and how I helped overcome this.
Now, not at all is this meant asa replacement for properly
talking to a mental healthprofessional or doing your own
(04:40):
work or finding the pieces thathelp for you.
But what I'm hoping that thisdoes is this helps you identify
when you're hitting a point ofcreative burnout.
It helps you avoid hitting thosepoints.
And if you feel like you're inthere, it gives you some
strategies and tools that youcan try.
And if this isn't somethingyou've experienced and this
isn't something that you havesuffered with, awesome, super
stoked for you.
But there are a lot of people inthe creative industry who do
(05:01):
suffer from creative burnout anddon't feel like they have
anywhere they can go to, to dealwith it and to have somebody to
talk to and listen to openly andhave some ideas that this is
what's happening to them.
Some people just think it'slike, oh, I've hit a creative
wall, or, oh, I just don't havethe ideas anymore.
That's not at all the case.
What this really is, is it's amental health issue that's going
(05:22):
on, and it's actually somethingbecause creatives need space.
We need downtime.
We need our brains to rest andnot constantly be in the mode of
creating something to be able tocome up with the best possible
ideas.
All right, so let's get into it.
Firstly, identifying creativeburnout.
So I just kind of addressed it alittle bit right off the bat,
but really it's when you startto notice a few different
(05:43):
things.
And for me, these were all very,very personal.
One is that I noticed that mywant to go out and create images
was dwindling.
I didn't feel like carrying mycamera with me places.
I didn't really wanna deal withthe weight of it and the size of
it, and having it on my back andhaving to stop and shoot and do
all those things.
When I was done work for theday.
(06:04):
When I was done being in thatcreative space, I wanted to put
on my running vest or put on mybike helmet or snowshoes or
whatever time of year it was,and just leave.
I didn't want to take my camerawith me, and that was an
interesting moment.
That's one of the few timessince I took up photography that
I didn't want my camera with me,that I didn't want it to be
front center with everythingthat I was doing.
(06:26):
And that was weird.
That was a struggle, and it tooka long time to identify why that
was happening.
At first, I saw it's like, oh, Ijust wanna be able to run
faster.
I wanna be able to go further.
I don't want to risk breakingthe camera if I slip and fall.
But really what it amounted towas I, I wanted away from the
creative space.
I wanted to be able to shut mybrain down and just, just go and
not have to worry about lookingfor those perfect angles and not
(06:47):
have to worry about anything.
And it took a while to come tothe fact that that's okay.
I live in the mountains.
I live to explore in themountains.
And what that really means isthat sometimes I'm gonna go on a
big quest and I don't want thatgiant camera with me.
I don't want to have to thinkabout taking photos.
Sometimes I just want to be inthe moment and experience it,
and I want to just, run a trailand see how fast I can do it.
(07:10):
I wanna be able to focus purelyon the physical aspect and being
there in the moment.
So the first thing that youwanna know is, is yeah, when you
start to identify that you don'twant to be doing your creative
endeavor, and you don't wannapick up your camera or you don't
wanna pick up the pen orwhatever it is that is your
creative outlet and you don'twant to be doing it anymore.
And then to come to terms withthe fact that that's actually
okay, that is one of the waysthat you can actually combat
(07:33):
creative burnout is that you,you just stop doing that thing
all the time.
So there's nothing wrong withthat.
It doesn't mean you don't likethat creativity anymore.
It doesn't mean that you don'twant to be doing it.
It just means that you need alittle bit of a break.
And to give yourself that graceto be able to stop and breathe a
little bit.
(07:55):
So, identify that you don'twanna be doing that creativity
thing anymore all the time andbe okay with that and give
yourself the space because Ipromise you it's gonna come back
again.
Like now, I'm out with my cameraquite frequently.
I'm shooting a lot, not just forwork, but personally I'm heading
out when I get the chance.
And it's, it's fabulous.
But I also know that like today,I didn't have my camera with me
at all.
I was up at Lake Minniwanka,climbed Tunnel Mountain, went
(08:18):
for a long bike ride and mycamera was nowhere with me.
I took a couple photos of myphone and that was it.
But I just wanted a day where Iwasn't thinking about my camera
being with me The next thingthat I noticed that was
happening is when I did need tocreate things, it all became
very routine.
There was nothing really uniqueor interesting, and I wasn't
(08:39):
wanting to create somethingdifferent.
And I really noticed this inparticular with my photography.
So I'd take my camera out andI'd start looking for angles and
it used to be that I would crawlon the ground and I would lay
down, I'd climb up on hugerocks, I'd dangle the camera
over the ledges of bridges anddo all these other fun things.
(09:00):
And that kind of stopped.
I'd take my camera, I would be,oh, this is pretty, snap a
photo, maybe squat a little bitso it wasn't quite at eye level,
but, I wasn't getting in there.
I wasn't getting dirty.
I wasn't trying to find thethings that represent a unique
perspective.
And that, spread over.
It started in my personalphotography and then went into
my day-to-day work as well.
I find that, we'd need to writea blog or contact a
(09:21):
photographer, create a shotlist, do anything like that.
And, when I first started, I hadall these ideas just pumping
through my head constantly.
Things that we could do, wherewe could shoot, who we could
shoot with, how we can includepeople, everything.
It was spectacular.
It was full of energy, but itkind of stopped and then I
started realizing that, oh mygoodness, I have to find one
more person.
I have to hunt down thesemodels.
(09:42):
And everything just became thisdrag.
I didn't, I didn't even enjoywanting to start thinking about
creating these productionsbecause instead of finding life
and energy in them, I wasfinding them just to be a giant
suck on my energy.
And that's something that Ireally needed to identify.
It took a long time to realizewhat was going on, and it didn't
(10:03):
actually clue in to that thiswas the issue right off the bat.
It took a little bit and itactually took some conversations
with a few of my colleagues andwith my wife to, to identify
where I was feeling stuck andhow I was feeling stuck.
And.
I knew that there was somethinggoing on and I knew that there
was something a little bit funnygoing on with my creativity, but
(10:23):
I couldn't put a finger on it.
And I needed that outside voiceto, to look at my work, my
professional work in photographyand at the organization I work
at.
And it took some people kind ofgoing, Hey, you know, where's
that spark?
Where's that fire?
Where are those things that thatdrew you into this work and drew
you to doing this?
So, if you're feeling off, ifyou're feeling like your
creativity's not quite there, ifit's a day, great rest.
(10:46):
Go for a hike.
Have a bath, whatever it is thatyou do to relax your brain.
But if it's a week, if it's twoweeks, and if things are just
feeling funny.
Get up the courage to asksomebody that you trust and
somebody that you know is goingto listen to you, somebody that
you know is going to want tohelp, and somebody that will
give you an honest answer.
I find that there's so manypeople that I love dearly in my
(11:08):
life, but I would never askthese questions of, because they
would never tell me honestly,what is going on.
They would just be, oh, it'sbeautiful, it's fabulous.
And I love those supportivepeople.
But in this kind of situation,that's not what you need.
You need somebody who's gonna bethe honest truth of like, yeah,
that kind of sucks.
Like, what were you doing?
What's going on?
Where's your brain at?
And if that's a friend that youhave, your partner, a colleague,
(11:30):
it doesn't really matter.
It needs to be somebody that youknow will give you an honest
answer and that you trust andthat you're open, willing to
listen to.
So, have some open conversationsabout your work.
Reach out to people and be like,Hey, this is how I'm feeling.
And, you know, that might helpyou identify what is going on
that might help you identifythat there, there might be a
little bit of creative burnoutgoing on for you.
(11:51):
So alongside that I actuallyrealized that my relationships
with friends, my colleagueswere, were actually not doing as
well.
I moved to the mountains and Iwas surrounded by these people
who live very similar lifestylesto me, who are really interested
in very similar things to me.
And I really struggled toconnect with people out here.
I really struggled to buildrelationships outside of that
direct work product where youhave to work with people.
(12:13):
And I actually spent that firstsummer out here exploring a lot
by myself because I, I wasstruggling to find that balance
and to find where I fit in withpeople and where things were
going.
And once I put the podcast onhiatus and once I started to
identify a creative burnout, myrelationships with my colleagues
and with my partner and with myother friends really flourished.
(12:37):
Last summer we were adventuringa lot and exploring all over the
place, shooting weddings anddoing all that kind of fun
stuff.
And what that really showed mewas that I wasn't able to fully
connect with those who werearound me because I was in such
a difficult situation with myown mental health and with my
own creative burnout.
It actually was preventing mefrom engaging with people and
being real and honest andupfront, and it was something
(13:00):
that was just kind of nibblingaway at me.
And, and people who didn't knowme, didn't know that.
They just like, oh, and we just,we just didn't connect.
They're lovely people.
I could tell they thought I wasa lovely human and we just, we
couldn't connect and it'sbecause I just did not have any
more bandwidth to be withpeople.
And so if you find thatsomething else that's going on
for you, if there's people thatyou're struggling to connect
(13:20):
with people or there's peoplethat you had connected with and
they're seeming to be pullingback from you a little bit, it
could be a sign that there's alittle bit of creative burnout
going on for you Now that's whatI kind of started to notice.
For you, the, the signs thatyou're hitting creative burnout
could be entirely different.
Or they could line up reallywell.
It's, it's a giant mental healthgame without being in your shoes
(13:41):
and being there with you and howyou understand things you can't
know for sure.
And so if you feel like this issomething you're struggling
with, if you even somewhatidentify with what's what I'm
saying right now, you reallyneed to go and meet up with a
mental health professional andhave a real conversation and
they'll be able to help you themost.
But I can offer you some skillsthat have worked really well for
(14:03):
me.
So we talked about the first oneoff the bat.
It's being okay with not wantingto be creative all the time and
actually giving yourself spaceto not be creative all the time.
And this is really hard,especially when creativity is
your job.
And to find that balance thatyou need.
Be okay not having your camerawith you.
Be okay, not looking for anglesand shooting all the time and
living a little bit more in themoment than a lot of us
(14:25):
photographers tend to.
I know we're always looking forthat perfect light and that
perfect angle and that perfectspot, and that definitely for me
anyway, takes me out of momentsa lot, especially if I'm biking
or running or doing somethingthat's a little bit more high
activity.
I don't wanna be also lookingfor angles while I'm, while I'm
biking down a trail.
I just want to enjoy the factthat I'm on some dirt and I'm
(14:45):
flying down and it's, it's funand I'm laughing my head off.
Number two, reach out to peoplewho support you.
That is going to be a huge, hugebenefit for you.
We've talked a lot about thatalready.
Number three is actually,weirdly enough for me finding a
totally different creativeoutlet.
Photography is my main way ofcreating and videography is
(15:09):
along the side there too.
I cut videos and I'm starting tolearn how to film things and I
actually had to turn around andlook for a totally different
outlet for my creativity.
So, a while back I actually tookup drawing during the pandemic
and I kind of turned back tothat a little bit.
I started bringing out a notepadand a pencil, and what I found
is that, drawing for me issomething that I have to look
(15:31):
inwards to do, not outwards.
And so, photography andvideography for me are about
capturing what's in front of meand what's going on in the
things that I'm documenting.
But drawing is not, I'm notdrawing a landscape that's
sitting in front of me.
I'm creating a vision in myhead.
So it's a very internal process,whereas my other activities and
creativity were all external.
(15:53):
And so for me to build somethinginternally was a huge break for
that other part of my creativitybrain, and still scratch that
itch of wanting to makesomething and be out there
creating.
All right.
And the next thing that I foundreally helped was making space
for reflection.
Making space for reflection isabout finding out what truly
(16:14):
matters to you and looking backon that, on those moments.
So it could be reflection everyday.
It could be a reflection at theend of a week at the end of a
shoot, whatever it is, butmaking space for you to
recollect your own internalthoughts and not just constantly
have outside input coming in.
I find that a lot of the times Iam always engaged with something
(16:36):
and it's always an externalinput.
That's one of the biggest thingsI found was taking time to have
some internal input going on andto be just quiet, even for five
minutes and just actively thinkabout what's going on around me.
You could do this as meditation,you could do this as a journal.
(16:57):
You could, you know, justmonologue into a camera if
that's helpful for you.
Whatever it is that's going tohelp you have those moments of
reflection, you need to do them.
And I actually found that when Istarted doing those, that is
really when the creative tapstarted turning back on.
For me, that is really when Iwas like, ah, there's an Aurora
show, it's 3:00 AM but I gottago out.
(17:18):
Like, yeah, I have to get up forwork in four hours, but come on,
like, look at this show.
Whereas previous to this pastMarch, April, I would see the
Aurora and it would be 10o'clock at night, I'd be like,
oh, I should go do that, but Idon't want to.
I wanna stay home.
But once I started making spacefor that reflection and working
on, looking back on my day andactively understanding what
(17:39):
impacted me, what I liked, whatI didn't like, all of a sudden I
was hopping outta bed to, to goand shoot things and to be up at
2:00 AM And it was amazing.
It made a world of differencefor me.
So I fully suggest you findsomething that works for you.
It could be journaling, couldjust be internal reflection,
could be meditation.
Just something that works foryou to really be able to focus
(18:00):
on yourself.
All right.
I am a huge proponent ofcreativity challenges.
We've talked a lot about that insome other episodes, and, I
challenged myself when I'm outshooting a lot too.
I was a terribleastrophotographer before moving
to the mountains, and now I am amildly terrible
astrophotographer.
I have definitely gottensignificantly better, but I'm
(18:20):
definitely still not great atit.
And so I'm challenging myself tomake that better and I'm, I'm
getting there and I want to getthere and that's where I'm
working towards.
But when you're in a moment ofcreative burnout, when you are
in that space of creativity ishard, the creative tap is turned
off, you just can't do it, andyou're struggling to even output
when you are shooting, if youare even out shooting.
(18:41):
You don't want to beencountering those challenges.
What you're doing to yourselfthere at that point is literally
setting up roadblocks to yourcreativity.
And sometimes those challengescan be a great way of forcing
you to think differently andforcing you to engage.
But that's when you feel likeyour creativity needs a boost,
(19:03):
not when you are at a point oftotal creative burnout, which
is, I do not want to be doingthis thing.
And you are actively resistingand fighting against it.
So challenge yourself when youfeel like your work has become
stagnant.
Do not challenge yourself whenyou're in a moment of creative
burnout.
Instead, when you feel likeyou're ready to pick up that
camera again, when you feel likeyou're ready to get back out and
(19:24):
start creating again andadventuring again and carrying
that camera with you, shoot whatyou love, shoot what gives you
joy.
Shoot what inspires you.
It doesn't matter if it's gonnabe good or bad or anything like
that.
What you want to do is you wantto take that camera up and you
want to actively document thethings that matter the most, the
things that literally fill youwith life.
(19:46):
I thoroughly enjoy shootingastro photos.
But if I would have stepped intothat challenge of wanting to
learn how to do it andstruggling with it, and then
seeing admittedly the horrendousresults that were coming out of
learning how to shoot the Auroraand learning how to shoot the
stars then I probably would'vekept putting my camera down over
(20:06):
and over again because Iwould've kept telling myself,
I'm terrible.
This is horrendous.
I don't know why I'm doing this.
So instead I actually turnedaround and I found some people
to photograph.
I got to do a few engagementshoots.
I did a couple of weddings, andreally what I find truly amazing
is being able to take photos ofpeople in amazing spaces and
helping them tell those stories.
(20:27):
And that's what really brings melife.
I like shooting landscapes.
I like doing all the othertypical photography things, but
man, working with other peopleto create something, that's what
just lights me up.
In a beautiful way.
I come away from a 14 hour shootday.
That's been huge, and we've beenon site for a long time.
We've been bouncing all over thepark, and I'm just thrilled,
(20:50):
like I'm happy to get up forwork again the next morning and
bounce around into the office,and I just want to be there and
that's what I want for you.
If it's being quiet and shootinglandscapes and running some long
exposures, or if it's astro orwhatever it is that gives you
creative joy, go and do it.
That is going to be the bestthing you can do once you, feel
(21:11):
ready to start being creativeagain.
And give yourself grace withthose images.
Give yourself grace with whatyou're making and how you're
feeling about it, and understandthat you're coming out of a
point where you're not feelingyour best, you're not doing your
best, and honestly, the work youcreate might not be its best.
But the point isn't the work atthis point.
(21:31):
The point is to engage yourselfand engage that creativity and
find joy in it.
And that's really what I'veworked on in the last year and a
half or so, was actually justfinding the joy in creativity
again, and finding the joy inwanting to be out and shooting
things.
So yeah, that's it.
That's, that's what I've beenstruggling with for the last
(21:52):
year and a half.
That's why this podcast went onhiatus for so long and why we
had to fight to find a way tobring it back because.
One of the things that brings mejoy in my creativity is talking
about it with people andengaging a community of people
to bring more art into this big,beautiful world of ours.
And getting to talk about it andhearing your stories back about
your creativity and yourphotography and your travels and
(22:13):
your adventures.
That's why I had to bring thisback.
I was missing all of you, and Iwas missing this community in
this space.
So, yeah.
Let's keep it going.
I promise.
In the future these will not beepisodes all about mental health
and things that are going on,but I thought this was a great
way to start to come back againand to have this conversation
because our mental health isimportant and it makes a huge
(22:36):
difference to everything.
It's one of the most importantthings you can do.
And so work on that, build it,and you'll actually find that by
building up your mental space,you're gonna become a way
stronger creative.
All right.
That's it.
I hope you enjoyed this firstwalking and outdoors.
You can hear the train coming atthe end of this episode.
I hope you enjoyed the first onethat was outdoors and walking
(22:57):
around.
There's gonna be a lot more ofthese coming in the near future.
We are going to start doingepisodes where we bring people
onto the podcast a lot more soyou get the chance to learn from
some of these spectacularcreatives that are around this
park and that are all over theworld.
There are so many diverse andamazing opinions out there, and
thoughts and perspectives onthings I wanna bring as many of
(23:19):
them to you as I possibly can.
And we're gonna be doing'emoutside.
We're gonna be doing them whilewe're out on adventures.
And so some of these episodes,you're gonna hear us talking
while we're on a trail.
Some of them you're gonna hearus talking while we're sitting
at the top of a mountain or in acanoe or just, you know, on a
patio somewhere, chilling andhanging out.
But if you're anything like me,you're not standing still while
(23:43):
you're listening to somethinglike this.
You're not waiting for life tocome towards you.
You are actively on your feetand you're going and you're
pursuing after something.
And so I figure let's bring thatmentality to this space, and I
hope you enjoy this journey withme.
And that's it.
Thank you for coming back onthis journey with me.
I am super stoked that we get tobe here and doing this.
(24:06):
And yeah, if you have anythingthat you wanna hear about, talk
about, understand a little bitbetter, a creative industry that
you'd like to look into a littlebit more, or type of creative
you'd like to hear a little bitmore from, let me know.
I'll see what I can do.
I'll see if I can arrangeanything.
You can reach me on Instagram atRobert Massey Photography.
You can find all the othercontact information on my
website atrobertmasseyphotography.ca.
Reach out, even if it's just tosay, Hey, or if you got a
(24:28):
question or anything.
I love talking to people aboutthis stuff and my goal here is
to encourage more people tobring their art out into the
world.
So I'd love to hear from you andlove to hear about your travels
and your adventures and yourcreativity.
Thank you so much.
I'm so looking forward to wherethis journey goes.
Let's adventure.
Bye for now.
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