Adventure Travel World Summit Highlights: ATTA Part 2

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and I'm excited to
finish off our tours andactivities series with this part
two, special edition from theAdventure Travel and Trade
Association Conference in Panama.
I hope you've enjoyed thisentire series that, of course,
started off with India CityWalks, and then we had Tom
Macklin and Evan Evans, and thenwe spoke to quite a few

(00:35):
fascinating people at theArrival Conference in two parts,
and then here we are wrappingup this series, which is
sponsored by our friends atSatisfy Labs, who specialize in
AI and live chat functionalityon the travel industry.
So thanks again for yoursupport.
This episode, though, is goingto feature one of the most
exciting conversations that Ihad this season with Gabby Stoll
.
If you remember, I interviewedShannon, her husband, at the

(00:57):
beginning of season four, and inthis episode I get to close off
with a remarkable conversationwith Gabby.
I was so impressed with theentire team at the Adventure
Travel and Trade Association andthe way they ran this
conference, and, if you heard memention in part one, I just
couldn't believe that Shannonand Gabby were the ones on the
dance floor the very first night, and it actually finished with
everyone getting up and dancingas they closed out the

(01:20):
conference and highlighted thatnext year is going to be in
Chile, so hopefully, many of youlistening to this will be
inspired to join us or anynumber of their events in 2025.
I will be attending many ofthem myself and look forward to
seeing many of our listenersthere.
If you want more information,don't forget to check out
adventuretravelbiz for moreinformation about attending ATTA

(01:40):
events.
Now in this episode, we'reactually going to speak to a
number of CEOs from the touroperators, a space that I'm
incredibly passionate about andis part of my background, so I
was fascinated to speak toJonathan, the CEO of Untours, as
well as the CEO of Spice Roadsand Steps Travel and Exo Travel.
We spoke to Hamish as well.
So many fascinatingconversations to come.

(02:03):
Also, natalie, from GreatCanadian Trails.
We spoke to Christian, who isfrom Active Expeditions, and a
number of really interestingindividuals that we wanted to
highlight the cross section ofpeople that come together for
this extraordinary annual eventthat is the Adventure Travel
World Summit, and so I was sothrilled to have the privilege
to be there this year.

(02:24):
I hope you enjoy these remainingconversations.
Don't forget we post clips andhighlights on our social
channels, so be sure to checkout at Travel Trends on
Instagram, linkedin and YouTube,and then, of course, sign up
for our newsletter just to makesure you're informed of all the
latest updates.
We send out a monthly summaryof all the latest episodes and
our plans and travels for themonth ahead.
So, without further ado, let'sbring you the final episode of

(02:45):
the Tours and Activities seriesand part two of the ATTA
conference.
I now have the pleasure to sitdown with Jonathan Coleman, who
is the co-CEO of the Untourscompany travel company and
Untours Foundation as well.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Welcome, jonathan, great to have you with us.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's a pleasure to be here.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
So Jonathan works with a really good friend of
mine, Richard Edwards, who formany of our listeners, of course
, Richard Edwards has been onthe show.
We worked at G Adventurestogether.
He's been very involved withUntours for a number of years as
the CMO.
He was part of our AI Summitearlier this year and this is
one of the first years whereRichard actually didn't come to
ATTA and it's my first year andhe was like you got to speak to

(03:25):
Jonathan and it's literally thefirst time we've had a chance to
meet.
But I've heard a lot about you,I know a lot about your company
.
I'm thrilled to meet you hereand learn more.
So, Jonathan, tell us whereyou're from and what brought you
to ATTA this year.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah Well, like I said, I'm really happy to be
here.
I'm from middle America, smalltown, missouri, and it's a long
journey that brought me into thetravel industry from a kind of
poor family in middle Americathat didn't travel, but I now
live in upstate New York ontours and on tours foundation

(03:59):
are based outside ofPhiladelphia.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Cool, that's great.
And then ATTA you've been acouple of times before, so this
is not new to you.
What attracted you initially toget involved with ATTA and then
what specifically was the drawfor coming this year?

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, the ATTA community is very much aligned
with some of the work that we doat the Untours Foundation, so
there is some alignment withUntours as a travel company, but
the closer alignment isactually with the foundation and
we have a reset tourism fundthat we can dive into later but
where we provide flexiblecapital, primarily low interest

(04:35):
loans, to tourism businessesthat are at the front lines of
fighting climate change andusing tourism, using our
industry, as a force for good inthe world and in their local
communities.
And so the members of ATTA alot of those fit that bill, and
so we love to interact withthose folks here.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Well, it's interesting because most travel
companies have a sustainabilityarm.
I mean G Adventures, of course,with Planetara, where Richard
was before the TravelCorporation, where for many
years with Treadwright.
But what I found reallyintriguing about Untours is the
point you just shared, which isthat there is a real synergy
between these two businesses andthat the profits as you were

(05:10):
highlighting to me, just as wewere kind of starting to get set
here from Untours, the travelcompany, flow into the
foundation.
So I'm really intrigued tounderstand that.
And so why don't you giveeveryone a bit of an overview of
Untours?
Because when Richard was on theshow and people, let us listen
to this, please by all means goback and listen to that episode.
You don't have to pause it now,but after this, jump back and
listen to how richard describesuntours, um, being not a tour or

(05:34):
an untour, and he was talkingabout slow tourism and and I was
asking him a lot about thedestinations you guys go to and
um.
So we won't have to cover allof that in a great amount of
detail, but I think it would behelpful for our audience for
sure to give them an overview ofwhat Untours Travel is and then
tell us a bit more detail aboutthe Untours Foundation.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I'm happy to do that and go into a bit of the
quick historical tour of howthat all came to be.
Yeah, let's do it.
So I'll start with that.
So Untours was started in the70s, been around for about 50
years.
The founder was this reallyinteresting guy named Hal
Taussig, who was a colorfulcharacter and just so far ahead
of his time in how he viewedtravel, how he viewed the role

(06:14):
of business and society and howfoundations can work, and so the
most important thing to knowabout Hal is he had taken a vow
of poverty, committed to nothaving any money, was 100% legit
and committed into that vow,and so, for example, he gave his
car away to a hitchhiker oneday and never drove again True

(06:35):
story, and I'll dive into theUntours model and how it works
in a second, but just to carryon with that theme, the first
few years that Untours made aprofit, he didn't know what to
do with the money he hadcommitted to not having it.
So he basically wrote checksback to his customers and said,
sorry, I charged you too much.
Here's some money back.

(06:55):
So he had a totally differentrelationship with money than
most normal folks out there andeventually basically set up the
Untours Foundation to take 100%of the profits of Untours Travel
Company, and that happened backin 1993.
And that was the relationshipbetween the two entities until
he passed away in 2016.
And when he did that, hetransferred full ownership of

(07:17):
the travel company over to thefoundation.
So that kind of ratified thatrelationship from one that had
been strictly financial, youknow, when there were profits
they would flow over to thefoundation, to one that now
would stay that way foreverbecause the foundation was
actually the owner of thecorporation.
Yeah, fascinating, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I didn't know that backstory and so that is really
intriguing.
I know it's always been apassion for Richard and clearly,
with this foundation beingfully integrated, that's such an
important part, for I'massuming that's also part of
what attracted you to this role.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, you know there's a few things that
attracted me to the role.
I was originally hired just onthe foundation side and more
recently have taken overleadership of the travel company
as well and more recently havetaken over leadership of the
travel company as well.
But you know, the thing thatstood out to me, just the first
hook that made me want to beinterested in working with
Untours and the foundation, isthat Untours, the company, is

(08:14):
the world's first ever certifiedB Corporation, the first
company in the world to gothrough that certification.
Our founder was kind of aninspirational figure to the
founders of that movement, ofthe B Corp movement, and allowed
Untours to go through theprocess first.
So that's something that meansa lot to me and I believe in
that movement and I believe thatbusiness has to be done

(08:35):
differently if capitalism isgoing to work and I think the B
Corp community and the B Corpassessment is as good a tool as
there is out there for that.
So that's just one hook thatgot me in.
Like world's first B Corp I getto help lead that.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Absolutely, I'm in.
Yeah, well, it's interestingwhen I interviewed James
Thornton from Intrepid, ofcourse they became a B Corp and
he led that charge to his fullcredit.
But, as I spoke to Richard, theHontours is the very first B
Corp and travel right.
So, um, you've certainly ledthe way.
And the other thing youhighlighted to me there about
the connection with ATCA and I'mcertainly seeing that just from
my first couple of days here isthat, um, the ethos of those

(09:16):
two brands, like there's a lotof synergies, um, sustainability
obviously being one, but evenjust you know the way, that way
that they bring cultures andcommunity together.
It seems like it's just woveninto the fabric of ATTA.
So tell us a little bit moreabout ATTA in 2024 and yourself
being here and some of eitherthe sessions or the priorities

(09:40):
that you have for being here andsome of the things you're
looking forward to over the nextfew days that you have for
being here and some of thethings you're looking forward to
over the next few days.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah well, first and foremost, ATTA conferences tend
to be in great places, niceplaces, to visit, so it's always
, like you know, everyone fightsfrom our team to get to this
one.
So, but you know, the reasonwe're here is because it's a
community of people that aretotally aligned with our vision.

(10:05):
And, specifically, on thefoundation side, a couple of
years ago, we launched the ResetTourism Fund, which exists to
provide flexible and affordablecapital to small and
medium-sized tourism businessesthat are on the front lines of
using our industry as a tool forpositive change in their
communities Front lines offighting climate change, the
front lines providing good jobs,um, and conserving local

(10:26):
ecosystems.
And, uh, there's not enoughcapital, almost no capital,
going to those businesses thatare that are really on the
ground level doing it, and sowe're trying to meet that need.
Um, and a lot of the the attamembers are exactly that.
They are, um, they're therefighting the fight, you know,
trying to make it work as abusiness, but also make it work
as, as you know, local,influential entities that care

(10:51):
about their local community andthat care about the earth and
they want to preserve it.
Yeah, um, so that that's thegroup that's here both, uh, for
those that could potentiallyreceive funding from our reset
tourism fund and also thoselarger entities around that
could potentially become fundingpartners into our.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Reset Tourism.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Fund, and so we work with other larger companies that
have a philanthropy componentto their work, and some of those
funnel some of that through us,and so the ethos is shared
amongst all of this group here,and so it's a great place for us
to be.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm delighted to introduce you to the managing
director of Spice Roads, basedin Bangkok, struan Robertson.
Struan, great to have you withus.

Speaker 7 (11:37):
Thanks, dan, I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
For sure, and you've got a lovely Scottish accent,
but you don't live there anymore.
Tell us how long you've been inBangkok running this cycling
business.

Speaker 7 (11:46):
So it will be 22 years in January since I've been
running the business in Bangkok.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Amazing and you've been coming to AT&T for a number
of years.
This is your sixth GlobalSummit, is that right?

Speaker 7 (11:58):
Six or seven, yeah, With all the alcohol you lose
track of how many you've been to.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, let's tell everyone a bit what Spice Roads
is all about, because I was keento chat with you, given what a
major trend cycling tours havebecome, especially in the region
you operate.
But yeah, tell everyone a bitof background about Spice Roads.

Speaker 7 (12:18):
So Spice Roads started really in 2003, based in
Bangkok, to introduce Asia tothe biking world.
We were pretty much emergingdestinations then, but since
then, in the last 20 years,asia's become a very popular
part of the world to bike in, aspeople overcome certain images

(12:43):
they have in their head of whatAsia's like.
So that was our humblebeginnings, but since then, from
the first four destinationswhich was Laos, cambodia,
thailand, burma, vietnam, soactually five we've expanded
into 45 destinations all aroundthe world now.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, I saw that.
I was shocked by that Because,of course, when I heard the name
and you and I haven't metbefore I wasn't familiar with
Spice Roads and it's certainlyfor me, one of the great
highlights of being here at ATTAis these amazing new
connections with people who havebeen in the industry a long
time, like yourself and I, butnever have met.
And when I was checking outSpice Roads in advance of us
having a chance to sit down andrecord together, I was always

(13:24):
thinking spice roads, spiceroute, and I'm an avid reader of
history, so I have a goodunderstanding of what the spice
route was.
And then I was like wait asecond, these guys go everywhere
.
This is no longer the spiceroute.
This was definitely.
It started.
Clearly it started that way.
But, yeah, I couldn't believe.
Like Latin America, you've gotColumbia and Peru, you go to
Africa, you do the Middle East,of course.

(13:45):
So yeah, it's remarkable.
And all over Europe and so yeah.
So tell everyone what the coreof the business was in Southeast
Asia and then how you've kindof progressed with expanding the
business.
Has it been based on customerdemand?
Has it been based on opening upnew markets?

Speaker 7 (14:05):
Yeah, how has the evolution of the business all
come about?
Yeah, the evolution of thebusiness I mean when it first
started it was all the leisuretype of biking, and then moving
into six, seven years later,when road biking really became
popular, we found that we had tosplit trips and so, because
it's a different attitude to thetype of biking you know, road

(14:27):
bikers are much more focused onthe riding, where the leisure
the leisure people are moreinterested in stopping more and
taking a lot more pictures.
So we found that was a naturalsplit for us, and so both sides
of that business has reallygrown since then, and now, with
the advent of gravel, there'sanother, there's another flavor
of biking to be added there.

(14:47):
So that's kind of one way we'vegrown.
But as we were kind of known asemerging destinations, we kind
of focused on that.
In 2012, I found all thesecompanies from the Balkans doing
trips like Montenegro and, youknow, macedonia or North

(15:09):
Macedonia I don't want to upsetanyone and so we found that
fitted well, because we're inGeorgia, so we're kind of on the
cusp of Europe and Asia, sothose fitted well and so that's
kind of been the growth of acompany and why.
And we kind of get known forthose type of things.
So you see, a part of cominghere is to really grow the

(15:34):
central South American side ofthe business, because we know we
can sell that, because we'vebeen selling Peru and Colombia
very well over the last coupleof years.
We have a big audience in NorthAmerica, so it works well.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Well, that's.
One place I noticed you didn'thave, of course, is Central
America.
You've got the two SouthAmerican countries, of course,
but being here together inPanama, I'm keen to know is this
your first time in Panama orhave you actually traveled here
before?

Speaker 7 (16:03):
This is my first time in Panama, my first time in
Central America.
You actually traveled herebefore.
This is my first time in Panama, my first time in Central
America.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
That's amazing For someone who's so well-traveled.
It's amazing there's stillpockets that some of our guests
have not been to.

Speaker 7 (16:11):
Although I did go to El Salvador before I came here
Did you.
And I have been in there.
I spent two months in Peru andChile about 20 years ago, so I
have a little bit of experience.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, that of experience, yeah, yeah, that's
fantastic.
So, um, the only thing I wantedto ask you about, given that
you've got such a uh depth ofexperience in the industry
you're obviously, uh, running asuccessful company that's
expanding um is some of thetraveler trends that you're
paying attention to in 2025,whether it be the style of
travel of course, cycling butalso the destinations you
highlight.
Um, what are some of the otherthings that you're paying
attention to in terms oftraveler behavior?

Speaker 7 (16:49):
Because our audience is starting to age out a little
bit.
Because, you know, when I firststarted doing this in my late
30s, you know, I guess for youknow 40, 50.
Now, 20 years later, they'reall starting to do age.
So the challenges we've had ishow do we appeal to this younger
generation?
Obviously I employ a lot ofyounger people now, um, and they
have the right language, um,and the right way to suggest how

(17:12):
to how to appeal to a differentaudience.
So I think the trips aregetting shorter, um, for me, uh,
you know, we used to have quitea lot of longer trips 17, 18
days.
We're just not selling themanymore.
So we had to have a rethinkabout how do we still satisfy

(17:32):
some people who do want to dolonger trips, with those who
just want to do maybe seven oreight days.
So I think that span is gettingshorter, which is fine, and
we're kind of developing astrategy to deal with that.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
I now have the pleasure to speak to a fellow
Canadian who has a lovely Frenchname, nathalie Gauthier a
lovely French-Canadian name.
She's actually based in Ottawa,so not all that far away from
me in Toronto, but it's thefirst time we're meeting here in
Panama.
So great to meet you, nathalie.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
And I'm really keen to talk about.
You're the general manager, ofcourse, of Great Canadian Trails
.
Yes, and I was not only keen tomeet a fellow Canadian here, as
we are, because we all travelwith Canadian flags on our
backpacks and we're all knownfor that but I actually want to
be able to ask you somequestions about travel in Canada
, what you're seeing, because,interestingly, canada keeps

(18:27):
coming up on this cool Cationslist and one of the top travel
destinations for 2025.
So I'm sure there's lots ofinterest in Canada as a
destination, but let's giveeveryone a bit of background,
because you've been there forover 20 years, so tell everyone
a bit about Great CanadianTrails and your role.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, sure, well, I'm going to take you back to 2014.
And at that time I'm themanager of Royal Expeditions,
which is the travel group thatsends outbound tourism and
namely trail tourism, and Istarted looking for trail
adventures in Canada.
And unless you're a seasonedfull backpacker hiker or full

(19:08):
committed cyclist, it's hard toexplore a trail system in Canada
, and we have so much to offer.
So then I decided that I'mgoing to make it my mission to
help travelers Canadian andinternational to explore that
trail system.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Cool, so you created this company.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
Yes, along with my team.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Of course, exactly Give credit where credit is due.
And so tell us about the typesof trips that you offer, and is
it for Canadians travelingdomestically or is it primarily
inbound travelers?
What type of trips do you offer, and tell us a bit about the
customers.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
So we focus on self-guided trips.
Uh, so it's all about givingthat flexibility to explore the
trail system from one communityto another.
Yeah, um, it has a great appealfor canadians.
So most of our travelers arecanadians, but we're now seeing
an influx of internationaltravelers um that that are keen
to see Canada, as you mentioned.
It is pretty odd right now.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Canada is, for many reasons, adesirable destination, both for
the landscape, the safety andjust the fact with climate
change, one of the things thatused to go against Canada
everyone's afraid it's going tobe cold, but everyone's so hot
everywhere else that they'rereally willing to come to Canada
.
So, yeah, we've got a number ofthings going in our favor.

(20:31):
But tell everyone I just wantto make that French-English
connection for a moment, notonly because of your background.
You're based in Ottawa, which,of course, is a very bilingual
city, but I noticed on yourwebsite as well that you have.
You know that it is in Englishand French, and so I'd just love
to know if you cater to theQuebec market as well, or is it
primarily English languagemarket?

(20:51):
I realize there's self-guidedtours, so it can go either way,
but I was just curious to knowwhere your business comes from
in the Canadian regions.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
It's primarily English, canadians, a lot of
Americans it's close by, so itmakes sense they can drive In
the French.
We're seeing more interest fromEurope than the.
Quebec market Becauseself-guided hiking and cycling
is a thing in Europe, so forthem it's natural to do that.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
And then tell us what brings you to ATTA, because
you've actually been attendingthis event for many years, as I
understand.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Yes, I do.
It's all about the connectionand taking time to reflect about
where tourism is going and howwe can make it better and more
sustainable, and always goingpushing the bond and how to make
it very more immersive, butalso to the benefit of everyone.
So here you have the small andthe big voice, and that's what I
like about it.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Well, and you were mentioning to me just as we sat
down together the first time youcame to ATTA was Alaska, and
what year was that?

Speaker 4 (21:57):
2016.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
2016.
All right, so it's nearly adecade.
I mean it's like we're goinginto 2025.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
What attracted you initially to coming to ATTA and
then, what specifically stoodout to you this year with either
the content or the destination?
Well, I was invited first by acolleague that discovered the
meeting, and she invited me andsaid you need to come and really

(22:24):
see what this is all about.
And well, as she was right, itwas addictive.
I'm still here nearly a decadeafter, but I think this year I'm
seeing a lot of the conferencearound how to really do a
framework around the adventure,the sustainable adventure and

(22:46):
the regenerative travel.
It's really focused on that.
Obviously, we need to have alittle bit of IT discussion
because it's kind of changingthe environment that we're
having to deal with clients andinformation.
For sure, when you sat down andI told you that it was my first
ATTA, you said you're going todeal with clients and
information.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
For sure.
Well, when you sat down and Itold you that it was my first
ATTA, you said you're going toget addicted.
You just mentioned the wordagain, and I actually wanted to
focus on that for a moment,because I think there is a
connection between adventure,adrenaline and people that you
know.
There is an addiction to acertain style of travel, and so
it's interesting.
You use that choice of wordsand I guess I would ask you what

(23:27):
is so?

Speaker 4 (23:27):
addicting about ATTA.
It is a small industry and it'sdriven by passion and sometimes
it can feel lonely and whenyou're at those events, you're
with everyone around the worldthat feels the same way, and
having those discussions andreflecting and seeing things
from another perspective, um,it's great.
It gives you a lot of energyand then go back and drive your

(23:52):
new projects.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
yeah well then, I totally agree with you there,
because even in my first twodays here at the event, I went
and did one of the activities.
Yesterday I'm sure you did aswell.
Yeah, yeah, um, which one didyou do?

Speaker 4 (24:04):
Walking de historic Panama.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Oh, nice, oh, that's awesome, that sounds great.
I went to the rainforest.
I went to go see the birdwatching and the hummingbirds
and the howler monkeys areincredible, but it was actually
quite a distance to travel there.
It was about an hour there anda little longer back, and on
both ways I had the mostfascinating conversations with

(24:27):
about six people around me andit was so intellectually
stimulating.
The gentleman ahead of me wasoriginally from nebraska.
He lives in japan, he's beenthere for eight years, he's a
buddhist priest and um and sothe people's stories, and even
you can talk about history, youcan talk about culture, you can
talk about politics, and I wasso stimulated as a gentleman
from the netherlands and um, wewere talking about marijuana and

(24:49):
the difference of likelegalization in canada.
Obviously, you know that's akind of a hot topic for us and
and um and so.
But I, what I discovered wasyou could bring up any topic and
people actually had, uh,credible, valuable things to say
on it and I was like, wow, wow,I'm like I'm surrounded by
people that are genuinely alsointellectually curious, that are
well-read, well-informed, thatdon't have, that are almost

(25:13):
lacking in a bias, becausethey're very much global
citizens, like they're all froma place, but they see it from a
global perspective.
So I couldn't agree more.

(25:38):
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(26:44):
marketing audit.
Now back for joining us.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
Hi, Dan.
Well, thank you for inviting me.
Pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you are a legend inthis industry.
You've done so much in yourtime and continue to, of course,
leading this business, but Iwas just amazed at the number of
companies that you have set upand the operations
infrastructure that you havebuilt in what was referred to as
Indochina for many years, ofcourse, but really in the

(27:31):
Southeast Asia region.
So let's start with a bit aboutyour background.
Obviously, we can't covereverything because you have done
so much, but tell us a littlebit about your entry into travel
and then bring us up to yourcurrent role here at ExoTravel.

Speaker 6 (27:46):
Well, okay, I mean, I consider myself really a
traveler who's lucky enough tohave worked in the travel
industry for the last 32 years,I think.
Like many people, I stumbledinto the industry.
I went traveling and lovedexploring and discovering new
countries, new places, newcultures, new languages, new

(28:07):
cultures, new languages.
And I kind of made a decision along time ago, early 90s, that
I wanted to try and make aliving in Southeast Asia.
So I kind of rocked up andtried my hand at a few different
businesses and one day I metsomebody on a bus who explained
to me that he was a tour leaderand I thought that sounded cool,

(28:29):
I could do that.
And I went and found myself ajob as a tour leader, working
for some overland operators outof the UK and I was before.
I knew I was leading tours fromBangkok to Bali and I was based
in Indonesia for a while andthen I moved to Thailand and in
the early 90s Indochina openedup.

(28:49):
So I was kind of in the rightplace at the right time to set
up a lot of tours there which Ienjoyed overland tours, cycling
tours, adventure travel so Ikind of stumbled into the
adventure travel business.
I set up a company in Bangkokcalled the Wild Planet in the
early 90s and we ran tours fordifferent companies across the
emerging Indochina and Thailandand Indonesia, which were the

(29:11):
countries that I knew first.
So that's kind of how I gotinto it.
And then over the years I'veset up a few other companies,
and here I am at ExoTravel.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Well, it's amazing your timing, as you highlighted
to me last night, given thereasons that you decided to be
in Southeast Asia, which were ona personal level, and I totally
understood the desire toimmerse yourself in a
destination like that and trulywhat an extraordinary place in
the world.
And especially at that time,because this is really the birth
of adventure travel, as youwell know, you were there

(29:43):
through the creation of thesebusinesses, but specifically
organizations like Intrepid.
Intrepid Daryl Wade, of course,and James Thornton was on our
beginning of this season fourtalking about the whole history
of Intrepid as we kicked off ouradventure series, and so many
people heard from that interviewabout the origins of Intrepid

(30:05):
in Thailand in those early daysthat creating these kind of
trips that allowed people totravel to that region, many for
the first time, whether they'reAustralians and ultimately North
Americans as well.
But let's talk about ExoTraveland what you're up to now and
this incredible business thatyou operate.
So give everyone an idea ofwhat ExoTravel is and the trips

(30:26):
and services you offer.

Speaker 6 (30:27):
So ExoTravel is a DMC the trips and services you
offer.
So ExoTravel is a DMC.
So we're handling a whole widerange of different tours and
operations for companies fromall around the world.
So we're all B2B.
So we're kind of the guys inthe background, we're white
label.
We like to say we're the guysthat do all the work and get
none of the credit.

(30:47):
But that's fine by us that doall the work and get none of the
credit, but that's fine by us.
Our mission is to deliverconsistently excellent services
and incredible experiencesacross all the destinations that
we operate in.
And we started in Indochina backin the day as it was when it
first opened up in 1993.
And my business partners areFrench and they were in the

(31:10):
french market and kind of frenchmarket was the first market
that came flooding intosoutheast asia after the movie
indochine was, uh released.
I think it was in 93 withkatherine denner and the whole
of france fell in love with uh,with indo china, and wanted to
travel there and we were wellpositioned to be able to to
deliver that.
And I joined, bringing in theadventure travel segment and the

(31:32):
UK market and Thailand.
So we were grew into Vietnam,cambodia, laos, myanmar.
We were in very early and 94 weopened in Myanmar, so right at
the beginning.
So we really consider ourselvesspecialists at opening emerging,
emerging, up-and-comingdestinations, complex
destinations that are difficultto operate in.

(31:54):
So our role is really to makethose complex, exotic
destinations as accessible andeasy for different kinds of
clients and we're handlingdifferent segments.
So we do luxury travel,tailor-made travel, group travel
and adventure travel.
And in the adventure travelhere at ATAR we have an internal

(32:16):
brand which we callExoAdventure, which only handles
small group adventure travel.
It's represented by mycolleague here, matt Blench,
who's with me, and we focus onthe adventure travel business
exclusively through that brand.
But otherwise we're handling alot of different tour operators
and travel agents from all overthe world.

(32:37):
Our biggest market is the UK,then it's North America, then
it's France, then it's Germanyand Australia.
So making travel to, in thebeginning, southeast Asia, and
from Indochina and Thailand wegrew into Indonesia, malaysia,
singapore.
13 years ago we opened in Japan.

(32:57):
Two years ago we opened inKorea and lately we've been
invited and excited to open inSaudi Arabia, which we see as
another emerging destinationwhich is on the cusp of huge
change.
So we were invited to be partof that.
So we took that opportunity andthis year we're opening a new

(33:17):
operation in Morocco.
So we will be in 12 countriesnow and growing, and in each one
of those countries we are fullyinvested, fully licensed, fully
operational, with our own bootson the ground, handling
everything ourselves.
So that's kind of our positionand who we are.
And, yeah, the journeycontinues, but it's taken us to

(33:39):
a good place so far.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
It certainly does.
It's truly remarkable and itcertainly stood out to me when I
was going through your websiteand preparing for our
conversation.
I'd seen Japan and Korea, butSaudi Arabia really stood out,
especially given how much focusSaudi Arabia is putting into
building out their tourisminfrastructure and industry.
So someone like yourself andyour organization is perfectly
suited to a country in a regionlike that to welcome global

(34:03):
travelers in and make sure thatthe services are all in place.
But I'm keen to dive into thata bit more.
But I wanted to ask you a bitabout coming to ATTA this year
in particular.
Clearly, you have been a memberof this organization for a
number of years, so you've beenclosely involved with ATTA and
especially, as you highlightedtoo, being able to run XO

(34:25):
Adventures and these customsmall group itineraries.
Tell us a little bit about yourpartnership relationship with
ATTA, how you got involved, andI'd love to hear some of the
highlights from what you'veexperienced so far in Panama
this year.

Speaker 6 (34:37):
Well, we've been with ATTA I can't remember when we
actually joined, but I think itwas Switzerland or Ireland in
about 2005, 2006 back then andwe've had a representative.
Whoever's been running our ExoAdventure brand ever since then
has attended ATTA every year,except for the COVID years.

(34:58):
So we see it very much as animportant part of who we are.
I love attending ATTA.
I'd love to come every year.
I'm unable to come every year,but I try to come every three or
four years because it's reallyan essential part of who I am.
I started in adventure travel.
I started as a tour leader.
I started working with smallgroup adventures, so this is an

(35:20):
industry I love, but I alsothink that that's where the
travel industry in my mindstarted.
I think all travel is adventureand it should be an adventure.
It's discovery, it'sexploration.
So working and talking andworkshopping with the small and
large companies that are membersof ATAR and the community that

(35:41):
they build is really importantto help continue to learn and
understand and discover thecutting edge of travel.
Because this is where it is andthat's why I continue to attend
ATTA and I think it remainsvery relevant.
No matter how big we get, it'simportant that we stay connected
with our roots and ensure thatthat remains an important part

(36:02):
of who we are.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
For sure.
There's clearly a lot ofconnections that stand out to me
learning more about ExoTravelsand ETTA and your brand ethos,
sustainability, the fact thatyou're a B Corp as well, of
course that we should highlightto all of our listeners, with
this year in particular being inPanama.
I've certainly found a numberof the sessions it's also my
first time, but I've found thesessions quite unique from other
industry conferences I'veattended.

(36:24):
There's a great sense ofcertainly community connection
obviously being the two themes.
But the word I would just addto that, which is um along the
same lines, is how supportivepeople are, um, even on stage,
talking about the fact that surethere's other competitors out
here, there's other dmcs thatoffer kind of similar services
in certain regions, um, butthere's a real sense of if we
help each other out.

(36:45):
Um, it's kind of this mentalitythat I um really always kind of
aspire to in industry is kind ofblue ocean is that, you know,
if we can get more people takingadventure travel trips, and the
only way we're going to do thatis have great operators run
amazing trips that more peopletell each other about.
So I'd love to hear anythingelse that stood out to you this
year, hamish in the sessions,because I unfortunately haven't

(37:05):
had a chance to attend many ofthem.
Not sure if you had either.
I mean, there's the MediaConnect that I've been a part of
, there's the Marketplace and,of course, there is no shortage
of people to network with.
But have you been attendingsome of the sessions?
What else has stood out to youthis year that has been valuable
or interesting?

Speaker 6 (37:21):
Yeah, I've attended quite a few sessions.
I really like this sense ofco-creation and mutual support.
I attend a lot of travel eventsaround the world in the
different segments that weoperate some of the big ones,
some of the small ones, some ofthe luxury ones and I do find
Attard to be certainly thewarmest and the friendliest and
the most supportive.

(37:42):
So I really like the way thatthey try to get people together
to learn from each other and tohelp each other.
It certainly helped me when wewere growing our business and if
I can contribute and supportany other businesses and people
that are in different stages oftheir journeys, I find that very
, very rewarding and I'm reallyhappy to contribute there.

(38:03):
But also, I mean I think we'realways going to learn from these
kind of events from ATAR,particularly because we're
always going to learn from thesekind of events from ATAR,
particularly because we're ableto see what's happening in
different parts of the world.
It's great Big reason to comehere is I've never been to
Panama before.
I want to know what's happeningin the Latin American adventure

(38:24):
travel world.
I want to see what kind ofproducts they're operating.
I want to see the challengesthat they're facing.
I want to understand theopportunities that are here, so
to learn more about differentparts of the world.
The way that differentoperators in those parts of the
world manage, is really, reallyinteresting.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Well, the one other thing I wanted to ask you too,
since you're a veteran of thisindustry but clearly have your
finger on the pulse ofeverything that's happening in
the travel space is the trendshappening in the travel space.
Is the trends.
Clearly, that's obviously amajor theme for our show.
As you well know, we werechatting a bit about last night,
but as we sit here at ATTA inPanama, as you highlighted, this
is your first time I've beenhere once before.
I know the next destination isgoing to be announced later

(39:01):
today, so no spoilers, but thosepeople listening to this will
be able to go to the website atadventuretravelbiz to see where
we're all going to be hangingout and having beers next year.
But I wanted to get your take ontraveler behavior in 2025.
And a few things that havestood out to me, certainly from
what you've already shared,luxury being one example.
I saw that you have apartnership with Virtuoso, and

(39:21):
that obviously is.
I've been close to Virtuoso forthe last couple of years and
been to their events andtracking a lot of the data that
they share about affluenttravelers and these high net
worth individuals and this sortof insatiable appetite and
demand for private excursions,so that's obviously a trend that
we've been tracking and likelyone that you've clearly been
paying attention to as well.
You highlighted Saudi Arabia.

(39:42):
Of course, that's a majorlong-term trend with people
traveling to that new emergingdestination.
Long-term trend with peopletraveling to that new emerging
destination Cycling trips hascome up as a theme.
But, yeah, I'd love to hearHamish from your valuable
perspective.
What are some of the othertraveler trends you're paying
attention to, and I'd even liketo hear, too, which are the
regions that you're seeing a lotmore forward bookings in in

(40:08):
Southeast Asia.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Sure, A few questions to unpack right there.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Oh yeah, exactly I just thought I'd just put it all
out there for you.
Amish.

Speaker 6 (40:18):
I think the most interesting I mean they're
calling it aha moments here, butthe kind of most interesting
conclusion, or what's supportingmy thinking, is that it's this
kind of blend of adventure andluxury coming together.
So as we grew our business andwe started to become a big
company, we thought it wasimportant to segment.

(40:40):
So we have our XO Adventurebrand and we would have
adventure people talking toadventure travel companies and
we had luxury departments whowere just talking to luxury
travel companies and we had aluxury departments who were just
talking to luxury travel agents.
But what we're seeing more andmore now is that the lines
between those segments areblurred to the extent that they
no longer exist.

(41:01):
So it's really important to beable to leverage your
understanding and your knowledgeof the destination for
adventure and luxury together.
The luxury traveler, the highnet worth traveler, wants to
have more adventure in theirtravels, in their travel

(41:21):
experiences.
The huge shift over the lastfew years, I think, coming out
of COVID, is that people withmoney to spend are seeing the
value of travel as far increasedother material spends that they
had in their lives.
So they're valuing travel much,much more and they want a

(41:42):
richer experience out of travelthan they were getting before.
So it's really moving away fromexpensive hotels to spending
much more money on theexperience and the cultural
immersion, uh, and the adventurethat you have in your um, in
your travel itinerary.
So this, this, this huge mergebetween luxury and adventure, I

(42:03):
think we're very well positionedbecause that's that we focused
on both of those areas alwaysand we're able to leverage the
learning from our experience andour interactions with the
luxury segment and the adventuresegment to create what we see
as a new way of traveling, ablended experiential travel that

(42:25):
can cater for people of allbudgets who have what they have
in common is that they want tohave a deeper, more enriching
experience in their travels.
So we've really seen that andthat kind of plays into it plays
very nicely into thedestinations that we operate in,
which is great, yeah, but agood example is that the highest
demand that we have at themoment in any of the

(42:47):
destinations we operate is inJapan.
We opened in Japan about 13years ago when it was really a
niche, small destination, and alot of the operators that we
work with were saying, well,okay, we'll have a look at Japan
, but we don't see muchopportunity for significant
volume there.
They've got no beaches, it'squite expensive, there's not

(43:09):
that much to to do and see, it'sdifficult to get around the
language barrier, etc.
Etc.
Um, however, the richness ofthe culture and the um, the, the
, that difference and thatdifficulty just makes japan so
alluring and so attractive.
And now the?
Um, the, the amount of peoplethat want to spend a lot of

(43:29):
money on a travel experience inJapan is just through the roof
and demand for the destinationis well beyond supply at the
moment.
And we're seeing Japan havingthe same kind of demand levels
as European destinations likeFrance and Italy, and rightly so
, because it has the culturalattractions and the
infrastructure and the abilityto be able to to manage those

(43:50):
levels of tourism.
Although that it is presentinga number of challenges, it's
still a relatively large countrywith a lot to see.
And now the big challenge, thebig work for us, the big
challenge for us is to dispersethose tourists beyond Kyoto and
Tokyo, where everybody has beengoing, yeah, into.
You know what they call emptyJapan, because, um, you of the

(44:11):
Japanese countryside have beenemptied by young people and
obviously, with the agingdemographic there, there's less
and less people in thecountryside, so there's still
intact really incrediblecultural gems for people to see
in Japan, so there continues tobe a great opportunity to

(44:32):
promote that destination just ina different way.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah, no, there's so many valuable insights there,
hamish, and I guess one thing Iwanted to just to dive a little
bit deeper on specifically isSaudi Arabia, since obviously
it's a new destination for it.
You highlighted it.
I keep hearing so much about it.
I would love to hear a bit moreabout your travels to the
region what you're expecting thenext 2025 and 2026 to look like

(44:56):
in terms of the touristopportunity there.

Speaker 6 (44:59):
So obviously Saudi Arabia can be very controversial
for a lot of people, definitelyhas some image issues to get
through, but in many ways itreminds me of Vietnam opening in
92, 93, at which time the UShad trade embargoes on Vietnam.

(45:21):
You couldn't, I don't think,visit the US if you had a
Vietnam stamp in your passport.
It was somewhere they weretelling you you can't go to.
But the country wanted to openup and the rest, you know, there
was still a part of the worldto say no, it's a communist
country, they've got humanrights issues you really
shouldn't visit.
But the country wanted to openup, the people wanted to work to

(45:42):
, to engage with the rest of theworld.
And they opened up and westarted there and and the
experience that we've had inVietnam has been incredibly
rewarding and to see it emergeand change and develop as a very
, very open, friendly countrywith the people who just love to
welcome foreign visitors.

(46:03):
So Saudi Arabia in many ways hadthe same characteristics closed
country, um, strict laws, uh.
But they wanted to change andwe were invited there.
So I was invited with a groupof tourist professionals to the,
to the um, the house of theminister of tourism, and he said
listen, um, as you know, we'regoing to make enormous
investments in touristinfrastructure.

(46:25):
We're going to build a lot ofhotels.
We're going to build umcompletely um new uh resorts in
the Red Sea.
We're building a brand new cityin Neom.
It's going to be a huge touristcomponent to that.
So we're investing massively ininfrastructure.
But we need people like you tocome and help provide the
software, the know-how to helpus learn how to manage tourists.

(46:46):
And he said we don't just wantyou to take tourists to Neom and
the Red Sea, we want you totake tourists into the
communities, into thecountryside.
We want our people to visit, tomeet international visitors,
and we want internationalvisitors to meet our people
anywhere, uncensored.
There's no restrictions onwhere you can go.
And, more than that, we wantyou to employ our people.

(47:08):
At the moment, the onlyindustry we have is oil, pretty
much um.
So employment is um is difficult.
We have now made it.
They obviously three, fouryears ago, um, women were unable
to work.
It was illegal for women towork.
They changed that law.
They made, they made it nowopen marketplace open for women
to work.
We said we want you to employour women.
Um 60 percent of peopleemployed in travel and tourism

(47:29):
are said.
We want you to employ our womenum.
60 percent of people employedin travel and tourism are female
.
We want you to come here andemploy women.
So we have an internal um rulewhere we're 60 percent of our um
our employees in saudi arabiaare a female, which which they
are in fact about 70 percent areat the moment um and uh, and
the country's completely openedup.
Women are not no longer covered.
There's no religious police.

(47:52):
They're going through a societalchange which is really once in
a lifetime that you get to seethat and for us to have an
opportunity to play a small rolein creating positive change for
a country that wants to open upand engage with the outside
world, we think that that's theright thing to do and it's an
opportunity to have a positiveimpact and that's an important

(48:15):
part of who we are and what wetry to do.
So it's definitely challenging,it's not easy.
There's a war in the MiddleEast and there are still a lot
of image problems for SaudiArabia, so it's difficult to get
a lot of international visitorsthere at the moment.
But what they're doing, whatthey're investing in, inevitably

(48:37):
that's going to come and if wecan play a role in trying to do
that in the right way, attractthe right visitors and to ensure
that they are engagingculturally, then that's kind of
our mission in Saudi Arabia.
That they are engagingculturally, then that's kind of
our mission in Saudi Arabia.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I now have the privilege to sit down with the
MD of Steps Travel, justinWateridge, who's over from the
UK.
Welcome, justin, great to haveyou with us.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Dan, thank you very much for having me here.
It's great to be here, so thankyou.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Absolutely.
I'm very intrigued about yourbusiness.
This is the first time we'vehad a chance to meet, of course,
and I guess the one question tostart off and this is my first
ATTA, but I believe you've beenbefore Is that right?

Speaker 3 (49:12):
So I've been a couple of times before, but not for a
few years.
I've been to, I think, in Saltain Argentina, Anchorage, Alaska
and, excitingly, Avonmore inScotland, which is close to home
.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah, of course, and where is home specifically?

Speaker 3 (49:24):
So I'm in the Cots, which is about an hour and a
half west of London, so inEngland, uk, yeah, beautiful
part.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
I was born in Portsmouth, originally lost my
accent very early in Canada, butI've spent a lot of my career
in tours multi-day toursspecifically and so I was really
intrigued by when I was lookingat the destinations you offer
and the types of holidays.
So I'd love to kind of get moreinto your background and your
business.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners what Steps Travel
offers?

Speaker 3 (49:54):
So we've been around for over 30 years.
The company was set up in 1989when the Soviet Union was
breaking up, and hence we firstwent into what are now the Stans
in Mongolia, and it wasoriginally called Steps East.
And then we bought a smallsafari travel company, art of
Travel, set up destinations inSouth America and then over time
they've become Steps Travel.
So we take clients to some 90destinations most years, but 20
destinations will be our coreones for about 65% of our

(50:15):
business, and it's very, veryspecialized, very custom, very
tailor-made.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Fascinating.
Well, something else that stoodout to me because your
background I mean you've beenleading this business now for
over 12 years.
You were at Abercrombie andKent before You're Oxford
educated, which I know fromfriends.
You may have told everyone thatin your 20s, but eventually you
start not telling people that,but it is a very impressive
accolade.
And you actually studiedhistory, which was my major as
well, and I find thatfascinating because those people

(50:42):
who are into culture andunderstanding the world and why
it is the way it is, and hencethe context for traveling, have
a desire to understand thehistory of a place.
So did that play into your yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
I think that's very much true.
I think that history isimportant.
I've just come back fromKazakhstan and Turkmenistan and
if you look at their recenthistory, they're part of the
Soviet Empire, whatever, andthen you go back hundreds of
years.
They were very similar peoples,yet their differences now
because of the nation states,that there are the borders, and

(51:16):
I've always been fascinated byarbitrary lines and how
essentially you can have thesame peoples from, but the
countries are very, verydifferent in lots of different
ways.
So that history is important,that context and and also that I
don't know know, 500 or soyears ago there was a lot of uh,
trade, uh, sharing of ideasalong what.
What are the now the silk roadsgoing through kazakhstan to

(51:36):
menistan and the like?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
well, you bring up a really interesting point.
I just want to highlight forour audience that, uh, one of my
favorite books written by timmarshall, an english uh
journalist, is the prisoners ofgeography, and he's subsequently
written three books because itwas so popular, and I read them
all, including the last one onspace, On space, exactly yeah
well done, okay.
so I figured you must know that,just in terms of how you see
arbitrary lines, but these youknow, whether it's mountain

(52:00):
regions or rivers, just howcountries have been divided very
intentionally by thesegeographic lines and borders.
But anyway, we'll get back tothe reason we're all here, which
is in Panama.
Have you been to Panama before?

Speaker 3 (52:12):
No, I've never been to Panama before, and so it's
great to be here.
I arrived sort of last Friday,a couple of days before the show
, and I've done a bit oftraveling around with the DMC
that we work with here.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Oh, fantastic.
So you did the pre-tripexperience.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Not without it, with our own DMC.
So we work with a companycalled Panama Trails out here,
who are wonderful, and so I waswith a guide and driver for a
couple of days just looking anddoing the same things Fantastic,
I came with my wife and kids afew years ago and absolutely
loved it.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
We had a driver and a guide and Panama really
exceeded our expectations, andto the point where we were
saying to other people when wegot back that we're planning to
go to Costa Rica.
We were saying you should go toPanama.
It has everything Costa Ricahas to offer.
So what has been yourexperience with Panama?

Speaker 3 (52:53):
I would totally agree with that.
I think it's exceeded myexpectations.
I think it's obviously a smallcountry 75,000 square kilometers
, so about a third of the sizeof the UK but it's got so much
diversity.
It's very compact, it's verysmall and the one thing that
I've been really surprised at isthe food, just the quality of
the food and the different sortof small little cafes to

(53:14):
restaurants.
I'm staying in the old quarterat the moment in Montana and
anyway, throughout the food hasbeen fantastic.
I know, and I wouldn't normallycomment like that about a
destination, For me it's thepeople, it's the biodiversity,
but that was all there andthat's been there.
It's just the food has beenanother sort of added fillip, if
you say.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Yeah, no, it's a really good point you're making,
because I think that's where weboth are saying.
It exceeded our expectationsthe quality of the roads and the
infrastructure some of thethings that I didn't anticipate.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
even in comparison to some of the countries in the
region, it's far more developedand accessible and safe and,
like many, of the things thatyou're looking for as a traveler
accessible and safe and likethe many things that you're
looking for as a traveler,exactly, and even sort of.
I was at the, the locks and theon the caribbean coast and we
were sort of driving throughsome of the national parks and
stuff like that and you and myguide says well, look, there's
hala monkeys there, how do yousee them?
There's a three-toed sloth upthere.

(54:01):
How do you see that?
And suddenly we screeched thehole and there's a two-toed
sloth walking across the roadvery painstakingly slowly across
the road.
But so it's, it's there.
There is, there is lots of uh,amazing biodiversity in flora
and fauna yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
I had a chance to do the activity yesterday and went
up to the rainforest to see theincredible wildlife, the
hummingbirds and, of course, asyou pointed out, the howler
monkeys.
Yeah, to be experienced,awesome.
So you've come back to atta,you've made the trip across.
Obviously there's multiplebenefits.
You've been able to explore thecountry.
Is it a destination in partthat you're going to be
interested in starting topromote more as a result of this

(54:37):
with your clients.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
So we already promote it.
We have done for a bit and it'sproving popular.
I think that, as you mentionedCosta Rica, I think the north of
Costa Rica is very, verypopular, so we've encouraged a
lot of our clients to travel inthe south of Costa Rica, the Osa
Peninsula, and then also intohere into Panama and they love
that.
And again, it's that crossingborders and coming from country

(55:04):
to country I think is part ofthe reason that I and certainly
our clients travel.
That curiosity, that changingsort of prejudice and
preconceptions that we have ofdifferent places.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
For sure us some preconceptions that we have of
different places.
For sure, to get back to steps,travel and what you guys do,
tell me a bit more about thetypes of travel experiences that
you guys offer.
You've kindly highlighted someof the destinations, but tell us
about a bit more about thetypes of experience you create
for your guests so in terms ofexperiences it's, it's giving
clients real insight.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
So if it's a cultural , historical, it's the quality
of the guide and and he or she'snot just a sort of going to
give you a little listening offacts and figures, they're real
storytellers, they've and alsosometimes got a really
interesting backstory inthemselves.
Um, I was with a last year,last summer, in sarajevo, one of
the great cities of the world,in um in bosnia, and my guide

(55:48):
had sort of sort of livedthrough the war in the 90s and
was able to talk from a verypersonal experience throughout
it From a wildlife perspective.
Again, it's that privilegedinsight.
So it's behind the scenes, interms of working with
conservationists.
We do sort of rhino-dartingtrips where clients will go in
with vets and they dart a rhinoand they see it being notched
and it's hands-on, so you're notseeing it from afar, you're

(56:11):
getting involved.
So it is very much aboutexperience.
Yes, properties and where youstay is important, but for me,
essentially, travel is aboutexperiences and people, and then
in terms of the clients thatare attracted to you.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
When I saw the list of, I have in my mind an, an
idea.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
But tell us who your typical customers are uh, both
where they're from and sort ofthe typical kind of age range so
the majority of our clients arefrom the uk about 75 percent,
yeah, uh, and then about 20percent from the, from north
america, um, and then fivepercent are sometimes
antipodeans or sort ofenglish-speaking europeans, I
mean the swiss and the dutch,essentially, right, um, I
suppose the average age of ourclient is somewhere sort of
English-speaking Europeans, Imean the Swiss and the Dutch,

(56:52):
essentially.
I suppose our average age ofour client is somewhere sort of
late 50s, early 60s.
And families is a big part ofour business.
I always thought it was about20%, but it's now in the low 30s
in terms of percentage.
And again, sometimes sort ofmulti-generational families,
sort of grandparents going withgrandkids and parents as well.
But, yeah, so that's they are,and I think what binds them all

(57:14):
together is that they are,they're all curious, they want
to explore, they want to learn,they want to understand and are
very sort of empathetic on thewhole.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yeah, very interesting.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
And then in terms of price point, obviously is it
more of a luxury experiencegiven some of the destinations
you go to and the clients thatyou serve, or is it quite broad
range?
It is quite broad, but it iswe're at the upper end, um, and
it's that sort of bespoketelemed that that, uh, and we've
seen lots of things happening,sort of sort of pre and post
pandemic.
Well, one one thing for us isthe our average booking value

(57:46):
has increased by about 50percent, uh, in the last couple,
and I think that's part of thatis prices going up, but I think
it's clients wanting to andclients spending longer in a
destination, but also they wantto spend a bit more, they want
to treat themselves forthemselves, because I think if
the pandemic showed us anything,it's like you don't know what's
around the corner, sort ofthing.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Yeah, certainly.
I think that was theinspiration for the show because
it affected all of our lives soprofoundly and I really wanted
to profile the stories of howpeople navigated the pandemic
and what it looked like on theother side.
I now have the privilege to sitdown and talk to Mariana
Castleberry, who is the founderof YOLO Dream Adventure Travel.

(58:26):
She's been to ATTA a few times.
She's from the US.
I'm really thrilled to havethis conversation with you now.
So, mariana, welcome.

Speaker 5 (58:33):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Absolutely so.
You've been to ATTA three timesnow, is that right?

Speaker 5 (58:39):
Yeah to the summit three times and I've done
several smaller events aroundthe world as well.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Fantastic, what brought you specifically this
year?

Speaker 5 (58:46):
The connection with the people.
Really, it's my kind of tribeand we all move around in the
same frequency and we have verysimilar values, and so we work
together towards the same goalsand aspirations.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
There was two words there that really stood out to
me.
One is tribe, which I totallyget.
I mean, I feel like I'd said onmy second day that these are my
people and I guess that's acommon expression and frequency.
I haven't heard that yet before, but I love it because I feel
like there is sort of a vibe tothis place.
And that you're just on acertain level with everybody
else, so that's a really niceway to describe it.

(59:22):
Now tell everyone a bit aboutwhat you do and where you're
based.

Speaker 5 (59:26):
Yeah, so I'm based in North Alabama, which a lot of
people are very surprised aboutnormally.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Yeah, cause you don't have a Southern accent.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
Well, I'm originally from Bulgaria, so that probably
contributes, but I plan a customoutdoor active adventures
around the world and what I dois I get to know my clients on a
personal level and get toreally learn about what they're
dreaming of experiencing and tryto make that dream come true.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
That's awesome.
So how did you get into this?
I mean, what brought you?
Is that actually what broughtyou across from Bulgaria, or
were you already living in theStates and decided to create
this business?

Speaker 5 (59:58):
I was already living in the States and created and
decided to create this business.
I was kind of in a professionalcrossroad and travel has always
been a part of my identity.
And a lot of people in theStates don't travel a lot abroad
, specifically because they feelintimidated by the process and
so they choose not to, and so Ifound that to be kind of sad and

(01:00:20):
I couldn't imagine that theycan go through life without
experiencing the world.
So I said, well, I can do thatfor them.
I can help them go out thereand discover what the world is
all about.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
So here I am.
That's fantastic.
And what are the types ofcustomers that you attract?
What are, I guess, in terms ofage and location?
What do the customers look likefor you?

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
So customers are mostly US-based age, probably
30-plus.
I really don't market aspecific age range as much, but
I would say probably that's therange that comes to me most.
I really don't market aspecific age range as much, but
I would say probably that's therange that comes to me most.
They're really adventurous.
Obviously.
A lot of them have personalgoals that they're trying to

(01:01:03):
achieve through their adventures, or maybe they're going through
something that is pushing themto go out there in the nature
and kind of discover a littlebit more about themselves.
Them to go out there in thenature and kind of discover a
little bit more about themselves.
And a lot of them looking forconnection with other people and
cultures as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Well, I'm sure that connects also to the brand name
that you came up with, YOLO.
Dream Adventure Travel and Iworked at G Adventures and we
had headed up marketing on oneof the brands that we created
with.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
YOLO, I remember that .
Yeah, that's awesome.
I'm so glad to hear that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
And that was sort of just before.
Uh, we didn't certainly createthe term, we were familiar with
it, but it was sort of before itbecame, um, uh, mainstream that
people knew this concept of youonly live once.
But how did you come up withthe branding, and is that
connected to the type ofexperiences you offer?

Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
Oh for sure.
That is the um, that is themessage that I want to send out,
that's the motive.
The inspiration that I want togive people is to basically as
cliche as it may sound is tograb life by the horns and take
the opportunity while you haveit, because you just never know
what tomorrow brings.
I think through the pandemic weall saw that the case and in my

(01:02:07):
personal life I saw that happenmany times, where people were
putting things off and they werenever able to do it.
So I try to inspire people tojust go for whatever they're
dreaming of and do it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
That's wonderful.
I couldn't agree more when Ifirst joined Travel Corporation
and Contiki had this amazingtagline, which is one life, one
shot, make it count.
And I think that generalsentiment is what really
connects travelers is that youtruly have and I'm not trying to
make too big a pronouncementhere, especially for those
listeners who are religious, butwe have one opportunity on this

(01:02:40):
planet, so the whole idea toreally make it worthwhile and
then tell us, with ATTA thisyear, 2024, going into 2025,
what are some of the thingsbeyond the connection in the
community, which I totally get,but in terms of the sessions
you've been attending, thekeynotes or some of the other
benefits of being here at theconference.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
I think, the sustainability portion of it.
We just go and dig deeper anddeeper and deeper into it and I
think the more we speak about it, the more we practice it
together, the more real itbecomes for the world.
It's really a contagioussnowball effect.

(01:03:20):
So that's something that'sreally inspiring for me and I'm
picking it up every time I come.
I have goals in terms ofsustainability and its
application in my business andhow I connect to other companies
that are also with the samevalues as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Amazing.
And then if people want to findout more information, clearly
you're on to something specialhere and I want to make sure
that people listening to thisare able to find out more about
your business and be able toconnect with you.
So what would be the best wayto do that?

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
Probably through my website, which is YOLO D-A-T dot
com.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Awesome, that's great , and certainly it's terrific to
meet you.
I'm glad we got this timetogether.

Speaker 5 (01:04:01):
Thank you, yes, and I look forward to keeping in
touch.
Yes, it's a pleasure for me,thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Good luck over the next year and the rest of the
conference.

Speaker 5 (01:04:07):
You as well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Thanks, We'll be right back.
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land and community.
And now back to the show.
I have the pleasure now to sitdown with a gentleman who's got
a fantastic name.
His first name is Christian,his last name is Valencia and he
is based in Quito and he is theCEO and founder of a company
called Active Expedition.
Welcome, christian.
Great to have you with us.

Speaker 8 (01:06:13):
Hey, hello.
I'm very happy also to havethis opportunity for the podcast
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Awesome.
Yeah, I had the privilege oftraveling to your country last
year and had the mostextraordinary time with our
family in Quito, where you'rebased, but also in the Galapagos
.
So tell everyone a bit aboutActive Expedition, how long
you've had this company and thetypes of tours you offer.

Speaker 8 (01:06:37):
Active Expedition is a company based in Quito.
We are a DMC.
We operate trips to the manyregions of Ecuador, especially
up in the Andes.
We do multi-activity trips likemountain biking, kayaking,
stand-up paddle, and we haveseveral programs in the Amazon

(01:06:59):
region too, and we connect withcommunities.
So we operate our trips alwayswith the hand of local people
that help, you know this, helpus to protect the environment
and to learn about the culture.
Yeah, so, yeah, I believesustainable travel is, is the
best.
Our experience in operation ofadventure travel is 18 years now

(01:07:23):
, so I'm actually a guide.
Even though I'm the manager ofthe company, I still love
guiding, so I guide at leastlike a week in a month.
Yeah, and I love to share, youknow, the knowledge of my
country.
Yeah, that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Tell everyone a bit more about Ecuador, because I'm
sure many of our listeners, likemyself, up until last year,
have not traveled to Ecuador andhave a limited understanding of
the country.
So I'd love for you to takethis opportunity to highlight
the many reasons why travelerslisten to this, or even
companies that are interested inopening up new trips to Ecuador

(01:08:03):
.
Tell them some of thehighlights.
Obviously, the Galapagos is abig one, but there's many more
on the mainland as well, as Idiscovered.

Speaker 8 (01:08:09):
Well, ecuador is a small country in South America.
It's the size of Colorado, soyou have an idea.
And we have four regions.
We have, yeah, the GalapagosIslands.
We have the Andean Mountains.
We have the regions.
We have the Galapagos Islands,we have the Andean Mountains, we
have the Pacific Coast and theAmazon.
The country has 18 millionpeople.
Our language is Spanish, but wehave 35% of the population that

(01:08:33):
are indigenous and they havetheir own language, which is
totally different than Spanishor English.
Ecuador has been listed as oneof the most mega diverse
countries on earth.
Even though it's small, thediversity is incredible.
We have several ecosystems,from the sea level up to 21,000

(01:08:55):
feet, the top, the snow top ofthe Chimborazo volcano.
So you can imagine how manyecosystems we have.
The Andes is basically dividingthe country from north to south
.
It's in the middle of theregions and that is where we
have volcanoes that are active,we have crater lakes, we have

(01:09:17):
cloud forest, so lots of speciesof flora and fauna.
We have just discovered newspecies of hummingbirds.
We have just discovered newspecies of big snakes in the
jungle.
Recently about two years ago,officially was discovered a
green snake, which is like thelargest species in the planet a

(01:09:42):
green snake, which is like thelargest species in the planet.
So, even though it's small,there are some areas that are
still unexplored.
Yeah, we have a lot of, as wehave glaciers.
You can imagine how this waterit's starting in the mountains
and coming down into the amazonand the cloud forest.
So we have great rivers forkayaking, for rafting and well,

(01:10:07):
we have over than 40 reservesdivided in national parks,
ecological reserves, parks thatprotect wildlife, so it's an
amazing background for for doingany kind of outdoor activity.
I am a mountain biker, so it'sunbelievable to be riding in
these ancient trails, trailsthat have thousands of years,

(01:10:30):
and uh, and you can go, you know, in the single tracks that are
epic also from the snow down tothe coast.
Um.
So for for adventure lovers,ecuador, it's a place that gives
an opportunity to do manythings in a short period of time
.
Like you go for a week and youcan easily be in the Andes, in

(01:10:53):
the Amazon, and not onlydiscover nature, also discover
the culture of people.
We have diversity also inindigenous communities, and
we'll we'll love to share timewith them, because they are
always happy to welcome, youknow, our visitors and and teach

(01:11:14):
about their languages, theirtraditions, their way of life.
Especially when you go deep inthe Amazon, you have the
opportunity to meet these peoplethat don't have the same ideas
of the city.
For example, if they want toeat, they have to go catch a

(01:11:36):
fish.
If they want to have, you know,protein, they have to go and
hunt a pig or hunt a monkey.
Also, I'm talking aboutcommunities that live deep in
the jungle, and it's so amazingjust to see how these people are
still having a life as we wouldthink.

(01:12:00):
It was like thousands of years,yeah, when people were just,
you know, collecting fruits andand hunting, but it's, it's
their way of life, right well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
You described the region so incredibly well.
I think many people who haven'tbeen are now intrigued to go,
because you hit on so manyreasons why travelers should
consider ecuador.
But one of the things I'd loveto ask about the geography of
the region is the importance ofthe galapagos specifically,
because I know that's clearly amajor draw.
It's one of the most beautifulplaces and with remarkable

(01:12:32):
histories on earth.
Um, and as my experience, uh,we were in quito first, we kind
of did the mainland and thenwent to the galapagos and came
back to the mainland again andwe flew out of Guayaquil in the
south, and so you need to travel.
There's no direct flights tothe Galapagos, so you have to go
to Ecuador mainland first.
And so what I'm trying to ask is, when it comes to people

(01:12:54):
traveling to Ecuador, how manypeople are exclusively focused
on the Galapagos?
Is it like 80% of people arejust going to Galapagos and
you're trying to convince morepeople to explore the mainland,
or is it higher than that?
Because I guess the reason I'mintrigued to ask you this
question is because we went forthe Galapagos and then our eyes
were open to how much ofmainland Ecuador, to your point

(01:13:15):
about the Andes and the regionand the diversity.
It was just like man, I wishwe'd actually plan to spend even
more time.
So tell us how people approachtraveling to the region and how
you encourage people, I guess,to divide their time.

Speaker 8 (01:13:28):
Well, the Galapagos.
It's famous worldwide.
Sometimes people don't knowabout Ecuador, but they know
about Galapagos.
So I would say 50% of thetravelers that are coming to
Ecuador, they go to Galapagosonly, but that's when they
realize that there's somethingmore to see.

(01:13:48):
So they normally come the nextyear.
After a couple of years theybring their friends or their
family and explore the Andes,but we see a lot of movement
also in mainland Galapagos youos.
It's incredible.
But the other ecosystems thatwe have in Ecuador are also very

(01:14:09):
beautiful and Ecuador is soldas an eco-destination.
So I think that's what thepeople like the most.
The real luxury, I think, is tobe and learn with you know, with
locals, with local people,because it's the only way to
have a better understanding, togo to a place, a destination,

(01:14:32):
and have the opportunity toshare time and understand why
the people are different andalso why the people eat this and
why the people behave like that.
I think the only way is to goto the place, to go to the
destination, and Ecuador offersthat opportunity of learning.
So in mainland Ecuador younormally see travelers from US.

(01:14:57):
I think the facilities to flyfrom US is perfect because
there's connections with Houston, with Miami with Fort
Lauderdale, with Atlanta.
It's a flight of five hoursonly and this gives a chance to
Americans to travel.
But we also see Europeans.
There's people from Germany,from the Netherlands that we see

(01:15:23):
, them normally doing activitiesin mainland.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Fantastic.
And then the types of peoplethat travel on these trips.
Clearly, you're based there andyou run a DMC.
Where are most of the travelerscoming from?
And the partners?
Is it many American companies?
Take us through how peopleengage and interact with you and
ultimately book your trips.

Speaker 8 (01:15:45):
We are a B2B company, yes, and most of our partners
are from the United States.
I think 80% of our travelersare from the US and 20% from
Europe Europe.
We belong to the ATTA communityand most of our partners are
from this association also, so Ithink that is the reason we

(01:16:15):
have mostly Americans.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
I now have a very special guest that I'm looking
forward to speaking to and toclose out this amazing episode
that you've had an opportunityto hear from so many incredible
voices across the amazingadventure category hosted here
at ATTA, my very first event.
I've absolutely loved it.
I understand why people saythat they're addicted to it, and
I said a line that I guess inour staff room that I guess is
quite common that I found mypeople and Gabby was there.
Like that's.
That's one of the things thatpeople say.

(01:16:40):
So I'm glad that I guess isquite common that I found my
people and Gabby was there, likethat's.
That's one of the things thatpeople say.
So I'm glad that I that I feelthat same level of connection
and community that you andShannon.
So I first wanted to start offto say thank you, gabby, to you
and to Shannon for invitingmyself and Travel Trends to be
here at the event this year.
It's meant a lot to me and I'mthrilled that we finally have
this opportunity.
So first, first off, thank you.

Speaker 9 (01:17:01):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Now Gabby.
Everyone was so excited for meto interview Gabby because she
is such a wonderful personality.
She's done some amazingpresentations here on stage and
the one thing that really setthe tone for this entire
conference for me was seeingShannon and Gabby on the dance
floor the very first night withthis incredible band, and they
were telling me that actuallythe lead singer was going to be
the MC at this event, and he'sbeen incredible for the last few

(01:17:26):
days.
But, Gabby, I would love tostart with some background on
you and your role.
I know you've been in thisindustry since a young age 19,.
You started as a guide.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney in the travel industry
and then tell us all about yourrole at ATTA.

Speaker 9 (01:17:42):
Wonderful, my pleasure.
Yeah, I am Brazilian, so I wasborn in Brazil and lived there
until my 30s.
But I started doing biologydegree Actually, ecology is my
graduation and then I took aninternship and went to the
Pantanal in Brazil an incredibleecosystem full of wildlife,
amazing and became a guide inthis lodge, in this lodge called

(01:18:05):
Caiman Lodge, and I lived therefor two years with the locals,
completely off the grid, nophone, no internet.
Back in the day I was 19, and Inever left the tourism industry
.
Then, you know, I could likeunite my passions, which is
connecting with people,educating them about nature and
culture, because I believe that,you know people, we don't take

(01:18:29):
care of what we don't understandand love.
So taking people to places andcommunities and nature helps
them be advocates to preservethose essays and things that
will be protected in the end.
So being done a lot of thingsin the industry.
Being with ATTA for the last 10years, I worked in hotels and
PR companies, events andeverything related to industry.

(01:18:52):
Did it all.
Love this industry.
I think tourism can be a forcefor good in the world.
I do believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
That's clear and everyone definitely loves you
here at the conference, and Ishould highlight too that your
role as vice president ofregional development at ATTA
means you're across a lot ofthings in this organization.
A number of people havehighlighted to me both your role
and Shannon's role, becausepeople adore you both, and so
many people have told me amazingthings about Shannon and now

(01:19:18):
I've had the chance to meet him,interview him and get the time
here in person.
But the same extends to you.
A number of people hadhighlighted to me how you have
really scaled this organizationand grown it globally over those
last 10 years.
So people certainly look to youas that person that's driven
this amazing growth of ATTA.
So why don't you tell everyonea bit more about your role in

(01:19:39):
doing regional development forATTA?

Speaker 9 (01:19:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
When I started, one of mymissions was to really I joke
disgringolize ATTA a little bit.
And back then I was theregional director for Latin
America and we did our firstregional event, which was the
Adventure Next Latin America,back in the day, and it was in

(01:20:01):
Brazil and it was in the Panelregion where I started, like a
full circle, and it was ourfirst event that the main
language wasn't actually english.
We had the event in portugueseand spanish and we did have
translation for, like, thebuyers, the travel advisors, the
and the media that wereinternational there, so they had
like headset translators, butthe, the sessions were in the

(01:20:23):
people's language, the regionallanguage for the region.
And we started a movement calleduna fuerza, one force, and this
movement still is super aliveand thriving.
Uh, latin america is very, youknow, unified in this and, um,
through this kind of a movementof looking at ourselves and, uh,
our challenges, opportunitiesin the travel industry.
And so, after now, with my newrole, we're doing this through
this kind of a movement oflooking at ourselves and our
challenges and opportunities inthe travel industry.
And so, after now, with my newrole, we're doing this with the

(01:20:46):
world, we're starting regionalevents in other regions, like
the MENA region, the APAC Asianregion, you know, and yeah,
we're excited to supportcommunities closer to their
realities.
This is a way for communitiesto join, because not everybody
that is living in Panama, forexample, where we are now, can
go all the way to Japan for anevent or, you know, for Denver

(01:21:09):
in the US, and this brings theevent close to them.
It's more sustainable, but alsomore accessible to communities
and all over the world.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
So I'm very excited Now.
That's fantastic and reallyexciting, but I'd love for you
to be able to share some forthose listeners that are just
discovering over the course ofthis episode about ATTA what an
amazing organization it is.
All the incredible people thatcome together, the voices
they've heard on this episode.
I would love for you toactually tell everyone what are
the three things that you wantpeople to know about ATTA.

(01:21:38):
What are the three things thatstand out to you that often you
get asked about when people aretrying to get involved as a
member or as an organization?
Yeah, what are the, I guess,the three standouts about ATTA
that you would like to make surethat everyone knows about, this
amazing organization?

Speaker 9 (01:21:53):
I think, atta, you know, the theme of the event
here in Panama is connection,and we're celebrating ATTA's
20-year anniversary and event.
We try to show this, that it'sum, we are a community.
So I think what the first wordwould be community, um, you know
every, uh, every piece of it.
So, from guides, from touroperators, from journalists,
from governments, everybodytogether makes this industry the

(01:22:15):
adventure travel industry andum.
So, ATTA, we connect, we'reconnected.
That's why the theme isconnection.
We help connect, help introducepeople, and I always joke that
we become friends first and thenwe do business, and it's so
true.
But those relationships arethey last longer too, because
you build trust.
You know you joked about thedance floor, but, like, you can

(01:22:36):
be in the dance floor and thenstill have awesome business
relationship forever with thesepeople because you, you're
building trust.
You know business is arelationship and a friendship,
you know and trust comes with it.
So hta connects people.
The other thing, I think it'sto be a force for sustainability
in the travel industry.
You know, helping um developcommunities help leave more

(01:22:58):
money in the destinations, helpprotect, protect nature.
So I think sustainability isanother pillar that is really
really important to us andbusiness.
I think ATTA really helps witheducation right Like educating
guides, helping companies how todevelop product, and so I think
those are, I think, the mainpillars of ATTA.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Yeah, no, very well said Gabby, so clearly.
Community, definitely,sustainability, yes, and there's
a lot of business opportunities, like the education, the
networking.
That's incredibly clear.
I think the one thing that whenI mentioned about being on the
dance floor that was so strikingto me was the fact that,
whether it's a major party or awedding, I guess it's the thing

(01:23:43):
that always stands out to methat if the guest, if the host,
seems stressed, it changes thewhole dynamic of the party and
the gathering.
But when you put all this timeand effort to bring everyone
together and then now you'regoing to enjoy it with everybody
else and I think that just setsa tone.
So everyone I've spoken to ifthe others stand out to me, was
just genuinely howintellectually curious everyone

(01:24:05):
that comes to this event are,how they all share a very global
view and regardless of wherethey come from, the languages
they speak, it's more of apsychographic that people are
just connected by their desireto connect with each other.
Focus on sustainability.
So anyway, there's so manywonderful things about this
organization.
Now I want to make sure thatfor those people also that are

(01:24:27):
just discovering that they knowhow to get engaged with ATTA,
because I still can't believethat, after more than 20 years
in the travel industry and 15years in adventure travel, that
I've not been to an ATTAconference before and I think
Shannon said the same thing tome was we have like the most
amount of contacts in common andwe had not met.
So how do we make sure no oneelse finds themselves in that
situation?
How would you make sure thatpeople actually get engaged with

(01:24:48):
ATTA?

Speaker 9 (01:24:48):
perfect, there is many ways.
There is.
We have membership.
So community membership is afree one.
You can go in our website today, join our community, be part of
it.
You will receive newsletters,you're going to learn about
trends, what's happening aroundthe world.
You're going to be informedabout our events.
So the membership is a greatway to connect.
So, from tour operators we havemedia in our network we have

(01:25:12):
industry partners, so gearcompanies you know, we have
insurance companies, we have weare really the hub for it
destinations can be members.
So membership is a great thing.
We do Adventure Connects.
Those are free gatherings intraditional trade shows like,
say, ITB, WTM, Travel, MarlinAmerica.
We gather also in those bigtrade shows.
There's always a free gatheringfor ATTA folks.

(01:25:33):
It's free and you network.
We're all about networking.
So joining as a member, beingpart of the community and be
present right Like.
So joining as a member beingpart of the community, you know,
and be present right Like, be areal part of the community,
Collaborate, you know, bringyour input and then the other.
Really there is nothing likebeing in person.
I think the events are magicalthat we do and I think it's
because of multiple things.

(01:25:53):
We somehow our community.
I don't say we ATTA like we are, you know, we are our community
.
We create a space ofcollaboration in our events.
That is rare, you know.
So you go to a normal event andpeople are stiff and like
wearing suits and trying to, youknow, compete.
Somehow we level in our events.
I think that's the magic thateverybody is honest about

(01:26:20):
sharing opportunities, challenge, learning and everybody's like
sharing because we all togetherare moving you know the force
for good and sustainability inthe travel industry towards that
needle, and so it's not anevent where you feel competition
, it's an event where you feelcollaboration.
So, attending our events wehave from the free ones that I
mentioned to the regional events.
So Latin America has an eventevery year.
Next year is in Bonito, bonito,brazil.

(01:26:42):
Back to the place I startedagain which is awesome, yeah we
have an awesome event in denver,for it's called elevate north
america.
If you are interested in northamerica event, uh, market, uh,
you should definitely be there.
There will be a consumercomponent to that too, if you
want to track the americantraveler, because it's going to
be the first one we do with theoutside festival and it's going
to be great we have the WorldSummit.

(01:27:04):
The World Summit is like thisone here in Panama we're doing,
you know, next year.
It's going to be really special.
The summit is where we talk asan industry.
It's a global.
I joke that it's like theOlympics of adventure travel.
You know, we have 70 countries,80 countries represented, and we
talk together.
Where are the trends, where isthe industry going?
And we're doing this here inPanama with the biggest

(01:27:27):
brainstorming session of adultsin the world.
You know everybody that's here.
We're working on it, and so thesummit is also for inspiration
and for direction and for you tobe really up on your game on
where is the industry going.
So you can access regionalevents.
You can go to the main summitor go to the free ones.
Just join the community.
It's free.
You can just go on our websiteand be part of this fun

(01:27:49):
community Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
I'm looking forward to the vision session later this
afternoon.
I'm sure people can findpictures of that as well.
I've blocked out that time.
I do not want to miss being apart of this Guinness World
Record event that we're hostinghere, and so a number of
highlights there, I think.
The one other thing I'd love toask you too about the attendees
that come to these conferences,because what stood out to me on
the very first day you had do aday of adventure before the

(01:28:13):
conference starts, which isobviously a great way to get to
know the destination and alsomeet other colleagues that are
here for the event.
And that's one of my initialconcern when I first arrived was
that everyone seemed to knoweach other, and I literally felt
like that kid that moved to anew school in senior year of
high school and I was trying tofind a seat in the cafeteria.
But what I quickly discoveredwas how welcoming everyone was.

(01:28:36):
So, despite the fact that mostpeople seem to know each other
and have these deep connectionsthat they've been to many events
over the years, which iswonderful to see, but as a first
timer I was a littleintimidating because I wasn't
sure how accepted I was going tobe and instantly people wanted
to know about where I was fromand what to do, and people just
brought me right into thecommunity right away.

(01:28:58):
But one of my questions I wantedto ask you when I was doing the
the rainforest tour with twomembers, I guess, of the ATTA
board and I was just having areally nice chat with them and I
was asking them how many peopleare returning members versus
first timers, and my perspectivewould have been that it seemed
like 80% of the people here werereturning and what they

(01:29:19):
actually highlighted to me isit's actually more about 50-50.
And I found that reallyinteresting and they were saying
that the 50%, it's notnecessarily 50% new companies,
but it's opportunities for otherpeople within those companies
to come to an ATTA for the firsttime.
So, having shared that, I wouldlove for you to kind of better
educate me and our audience onthe types of people that come to

(01:29:40):
an ATTA event or all these manyevents that you have all over
the world.

Speaker 9 (01:29:44):
Yes, no, it's totally correct.
It's usually 50% new.
Like you said, newcomers couldbe from the same company.
But it's tricky though, becausenow a company, once you went to
a summit, usually, or any ofATTA event, we hear that they
are hooked.
They're always arguing insidetheir own business like, no, I

(01:30:04):
want to go.
No, I want to go this year.
Some companies now are sendingtwo or three people because
they're like, no, I'm alwaysgoing, but it's fun.
It's really a global community,especially in the summit.
Of course, the regional eventsthey have more of the regional.
For example, we had ElevateEurope this year in Austria and
it was, of course, pretty heavyon the European side of things.

(01:30:25):
But for the summit and everyevent we always have tour
operators, travel advisors,people that are selling trips
that are more sustainable, moreadventure, experiential travel.
Then we have the suppliers.
So these are offers, could behotels, could be smaller tour
operators, gmcs, companies that,for example, sells Brazil or

(01:30:46):
sells Japan, you know, thatoffer tours.
So they do business, they meetduring the marketplace and they
do business.
And then we also havejournalists in our events
because it's important to tellthe story, inspire the traveler.
So our community can alsoconnect and pitch stories to the
journalists and make them writeabout it and tell the stories
about that special communityproject that you take travelers

(01:31:07):
to.
We have destinationsrepresented, you know, and we
have services for industry tosay, you know from, like e-gear
insurance, everything that isconnected to that industry.
So it's a very diverse group ofpeople, yeah, but I think we
are all united by the passionfor sustainable travel.
I think that's what.
It doesn't matter who is.

(01:31:27):
Where are you coming from?
These people are all workingfor the same force.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
Totally.
That's been incredibly clear andthat's been a recurring theme
in every conversation I have had, and I've certainly learned a
lot myself from theseconversations, from the
organizations that come herethat really prioritize
sustainability and it's great tosee even some of the opening
speakers were highlighting thatpeople are choosing sustainable
options and so I'd love to alsohear your highlights from this

(01:31:53):
year's conference, since you putso much time and effort
bringing it together.
One of the big highlights for me, of course, was Nikki from
Kenya handing over the baton toHuli from Impulse Travel and I'm
very fortunate to be on theImpulse Travel board and
traveling to Colombia tomorrowafter an amazing time here in
Panama, and I thought Huli didan extraordinary job and I love.

(01:32:14):
I was raised by a single mom,so I love to see strong female
leadership, especially in travel, and Shannon already told me
that was a session he was reallylooking forward to, so I sat
there in the front stage and Igot lots of videos and pictures
and it was a really powerfulmoment.
Yes, exactly, very inspiring.
So I'd love to hear what someof the highlights were for you
at this year's ATTA this year isa very special one for us.

Speaker 9 (01:32:36):
It's a celebration of the 20 years under Shannon's's
direction and again the theme isconnection.
So throughout the summit wetried to all the speakers are
part of this community already.
You know we didn't bring anylike foreigner, rock star,
whatever to to be the speaker.
Everybody here is the voicefrom tour operator destinations,
like we had a destinationsession.
We had, you know, touroperators talking.

(01:32:58):
We had media, we had everybodyit's our community telling the
stories how they're doing thingsin real life.
You know how I'm implementingthis.
Nobody's just like from theacademia, just, you know,
talking like very boring.
You know, it's all real peopletalking about the real work they
do in the field.
Uh, so that's super fun.
We did some awesome, awesomelike projects throughout the
event.
We had a art piece, acollective art piece where, um,

(01:33:21):
because I, I, my vision was likeI want to show this community
we have the diversity of ourcommunity.
So I actually brought my, myfirst mentor, the guy that
trained me as a guide, who isalso a brilliant artist, to do
our art piece.
We did three art pieces umtogether here in this event and
we are gonna do an auction andthe money is gonna go to a
non-profit supporting indigenouscommunities here in Panama.

(01:33:45):
So super fun.
We also have and we're going toshow this in the last plenary
we have created a song.
So we have a band here and theemcee of the event is from
Panama.
His name is Henrique.
The band is making movies.
I'm a huge fan, they are great.
The band is making movies.
I'm a huge fan, they are great.
But we also did a great project.
We started in the last year aLatin America event composing a

(01:34:06):
song, and this song is about theadventure.
It started with the inspiration, with the One Force thing, and
we traveled with the band allover the year with the ATT
events.
So we went to Ecuador, we wentto Austria and went to Asheville
this year and we recorded ourcommunity singing, playing,

(01:34:26):
dancing.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
So great.

Speaker 9 (01:34:27):
And we created a music video and we're showing so
we have our own song, we haveour own, but this is to show the
diversity that we are acommunity and the connection, so
this is super fun.
We had amazing sessions, youknow, super heavy on like trends
, where is the industry going.
We had sessions on morebusiness and like leadership,
marketing, a lot of AI Becausethat's like the hot word now

(01:34:50):
like AI and how to use AI andnot use.
We had on the guides.
Guides are fundamental in thetravel industry.
So we had, you know, on safety.
We had sustainability.
We had so many sessions and thefun thing also, we have
peer-to-peer sessions and Ithink that that is really
powerful.
When you put business leaderstogether or when you put
destinations together to talk oryou put media together, they

(01:35:13):
have this safe place to talkabout their own challenge
insight.
So we had, you know, plenarieswith everybody together.
Brainstorming is a great thing.
With Lee, we're doing this, thebiggest brainstorm of adults,
and this is going to direct thefuture of ATTA, what we hear
from here that our community istalking about.
What are the challenges, theopportunities, what are the

(01:35:34):
trends?
We are going to support them inthe future with education, with
events, with connections, andso super excited.
This is a very beautifulspecial event for us and I think
I'm having a blast.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
I will be dancing again tonight in the closing
party.
Yeah, that's awesome, and leeis our dj.

Speaker 9 (01:35:52):
This is super fun.
Yeah, he, he is the facilitatorthat is doing the brainstorming
, but he is our dj in the end,so oh, that's so exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
No thanks for sharing all those super valuable
insights, and I'm sure manypeople listening to this have
been incredibly inspired byhearing the voices, and yours
specifically, gabby.
The one last question I wantedto ask you, though, is you
mentioned about trends, and ofcourse, that is a big theme of
our show, and I would love tohear from you what are some of
the trends that you're payingattention to for travel globally

(01:36:22):
in 2025.

Speaker 9 (01:36:23):
Yeah, I think it's many, many.
I think it's more like slowtravel.
People also stay longer,pleasure, which is a combination
, right like, of business andtravel, but I think it is really
connecting with the communities.
You know, not just visiting aplace, taking a photo, you know,
learning about the stories,contributing, leaving the place
better than you found.

(01:36:44):
There are specific trends likecycling.
E-bike is a big trend.
There is women solo womentraveling or groups of women
traveling.
It's a huge trend, for sure,with women-owned companies and
women-only guides.

Speaker 5 (01:36:57):
Indeed.

Speaker 9 (01:36:57):
You know super fun.
Those are great trends, but Ithink in general, it's about you
know, super fun, those are,those are, those are great
trends, but I think, in general,it's about and it's perfectly
the theme of the Vendee Zee it'sabout connecting, so you're not
just traveling and you'rereally learning about the
destination, really connectingand see if you can help it, you
know and collaborate, and beinga guest.
I think one of the things I loveto talk about is like the the

(01:37:19):
in the travel industry calledyou know, guests in hotels like
you have guests and we should beguests in the destinations we
visit.
When you go to somebody's housefor dinner, you bring a bottle
of wine, you respect the rules,you see what they tell you, why
we don't do this when we go onvacation.
We need to be guests in, youknow, in Panama, here, for
example, when you come to visitwith your family and be

(01:37:41):
respectful and learn andcontribute Right Like, and so I
think that, coming back to thatword, I think how can we be
better stewards in the travelindustry?
We all have a piece.
We all have a piece in this.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
So for sure.
No, that's very inspiringThanks.
Thank you so much for sharingthat and certainly it's been
such a privilege and an honor tobe here this year and I want to
make sure all of our listenershave that opportunity to plan in
future.
I know we've talked a littlebit about ATTA as an
organization.
There's so much more to it thatpeople can discover themselves.
Where would you send them toGabby to get more information

(01:38:16):
and also follow up with yourselfif any of the partners
listening to this would like toconnect with you about future
opportunities?

Speaker 9 (01:38:22):
Yeah, go to our website.
There you're going to findeverything Explanation of what
we do, how to join as a member,where is our event?
So it's wwwadventuretravelbiz.
That's our website.
Follow us on social mediaYou'll be able to.
I'm there, I'm listed there, myemail is on the website, I'm in
LinkedIn and I'm in Instagram.
So I'm super open, super wouldlove to connect with anyone that

(01:38:46):
wants to learn more about ATTAand help us be a force for good
in the travel industry.
That's our mission, that's ourpassion.
We're here for that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Amazing.
That's wonderful.
Thank you so much, Gabby.
I just wanted to say thank youagain to you and Shannon and to
all the amazing people here atATTA.
You have an incredible team,Juan, who helped get even this
space set up for me, buteveryone was just so remarkable
in their hospitality and theirdesire to assist and help and be

(01:39:17):
supportive.
So it's an incredible team thatyou guys have built and
wonderful to have thisopportunity to be a part of it
and experience it firsthand.
So I encourage all of ourlisteners to check out ATTA,
become a member, get engagedwith this incredible
organization.
I certainly have the.
I hope to have the opportunityto to return next year when it
gets announced, but I will saythis for sure I will see you and

(01:39:38):
Shannon on the dance floortonight.

Speaker 9 (01:39:39):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:39:45):
Thank you so much, then.
It was a pleasure.
Thank you, gabby.
Thanks so much for joining uson this latest episode of Travel
Trends.
I hope you enjoyed this deepdive into tours and activities
sponsored by our friends atSatisfy Labs, and this
particular episode being parttwo of the Adventure, Travel and
Trade Association Conference.
I certainly look forward toattending a number of their
events next year and hope youjoin us as well.
Also, I wanted to make surethat you know there's two more
episodes still to come.

(01:40:05):
In season four, we have aspecial episode on travel AI
that was recorded at theFocusrite conference, and then
we finish off with our Focusriteseries as well.
Then season five kicks offJanuary 15th 2025 with an
incredible list of speakers,sponsors and partners.
I'm very excited.

(01:40:26):
The future is very bright in2025.
And I wanted to thank all ofour listeners for being so
supportive this year.
So, if you're listening to thisas of December 2024, I wanted
to say a sincere thank you toall of our listeners and also
the team that has made this showpossible.
So thanks again to Zach and Meland Jen and Catherine and

(01:40:46):
Melissa for making this such anenjoyable show to work on.
I love it, I so enjoy it andI'm looking forward to bringing
everyone so many more episodesand continue our collaboration
together in 2025.
But enjoy the holidays, have awonderful break and I look
forward to speaking to you allin the new year.
Until then, safe travels.

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Adventure Travel World Summit Highlights: ATTA Part 2

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