Crafting Immersive In-Destination Experiences with BRC Imagination Arts

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I think there's a sense of being people looking
for, play, enjoy, and I thinkwhen we do that in the right way
, we give people the um, we givepeople the permission or we
create the structure of theplace where that feels free to
do without feeling judged.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello everyone and welcome back to travel trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and we're about to
begin our final deep dive ofseason five, and we're going to
be focusing on the world ofin-destination experiences
sponsored by our friends atPernod Ricard, and our first
guest is Christian Latchell, whois the Chief Creative Officer
at BRC Imagination Arts.

(00:42):
Now, before we get to Christianand give some more context to
this overall conversation, Ijust wanted to highlight I think
we have saved the best themeand speakers for our final
series.
We're already now inpreparation for season six and
some of these guests, as you'llhear, will be rejoining us next
season, and we're also going tohave our final episode, which
will feature the founder ofViator, rod Cuthbert.

(01:05):
And if you have any suggestionsfor us on topics and themes for
season six, please be sure toreach out anytime, dan, at
traveltrendspodcastcom.
Now we've started this path ofthemes going into season four
and it's certainly been one ofthe most popular aspects of our
show.
But one of our most popularguests, laura Cilio Pavat, who

(01:27):
runs the brand homes at PernodRicard, and her and I were
talking about themes for seasonfive, and one of the things both
of us were keen to explorefurther was this idea of
in-destination experiences.
Now, this show, of course, cameout of the pandemic as we wanted
to create a podcast tohighlight how traveler behavior
had changed post-pandemic, andnow we realize that it is very

(01:50):
far in the rearview mirror.
But many of those developmentshow travelers changed their
traveler behavior are still veryrelevant and meaningful today.
And I'll give you a fewexamples.
The companies like Fever, whois going to be on season six.
They really establishedthemselves during the pandemic
running these immersiveexperiences, and if you're not
familiar with Fever, I'm sure inyour city you have seen any

(02:13):
number of the events thatthey've been running and it's
well worth understanding moreabout them and what they do.
Same with companies like Getyour Guide.
I think most of our globallisteners are very familiar with
that OTA, but very focused onin-destination experiences.
Civitatis, who is focused onthe Spanish market, is part of
our season six, and so when youlook at what's been happening in

(02:35):
the tourism industry, you haveseen major developments like the
Sphere in Las Vegas is probablyone of the most impressive
examples of a new in-destinationexperiences.
You've seen the rise ofconcerts.
We've obviously had the TaylorSwift effect, but really, when
it comes to the reason thatpeople travel.
It's often about the activitiesand the experiences they're
going to have in destination.

(02:56):
Many of you would have heardfrom both Douglas Quimby and
Bruce Rosar, the co-founders ofArrival, that's Arrival with one
R.
They literally created an event, business and research company
focused on what they refer to asthe best part of travel, which
is the experiences that you'regoing to have, the activities.
And this is where I wanted todo a deep dive to finish season

(03:19):
five, to look at people that aredriving these trends and
they're actually shaping thesein-destination experiences.
And that's exactly what you'regoing to hear from Christian
today.
We're going to have Laura joinus for episode two, so we're
bringing back one of our mostpopular guests.
Laura is going to join us totell us the evolving world of
Pernod Ricard and the brand homeexperiences that they are

(03:40):
continuing to elevate, and thenwe're gonna close it off with an
absolutely extraordinaryconversation with Jake Halpert
and Joe Pine from theTransformational Travel Council.
Now, joe Pine is a legend inthe travel industry, to me and
to many other people that havebeen on our show.
He certainly inspired many ofus with his book that was
written way back in 1999, calledthe Experience Economy.

(04:04):
It's a bestseller and a keybusiness book of the last 25
years.
He is now just about to releasehis latest work, which is
called the TransformationEconomy and that will be
launching later this year.
And we're going to be bringingJoe back in season six as well
with Jake, because, as you'llhear in the third episode of the
In Destination Experiences,this is probably one of the most

(04:26):
amazing interviews and episodeswe've had for the entire
duration of Travel Trends, whichfor me, is very reassuring
because it highlights theprogress we've made and the
trajectory that we're now on,thanks to all of our listeners,
all of our guests and, of course, all the sponsors that make
this whole production possible.

(04:49):
Now, when you look at the worldof In-destination experiences
and I've been highlighting atthe introduction to each of
these themes just howsignificant the industry size is
, and obviously that's importantto entrepreneurs, it's
important for people working indistribution, product sales and
marketing to understand theopportunity when you actually
look at in-destinationexperiences, we're talking about
a $1.1 to $1.3 trillionindustry, according to a report

(05:12):
done by McKinsey last year.
So not just $2 billion, notjust $200 billion, but we're
talking a trillion dollarbusiness and this is where we're
going to clearly have tocontinue on this topic going
forward, because we're only justgoing to be able to highlight a
few important elements withinthe in-destination experiences,
but it certainly will give allof our listeners a much greater

(05:34):
understanding, even to ourproducer, zach, who edited this
first episode with Christian andsent me a note to say I love
this interview.
I had no idea companies likethis existed, and so if I can
continue to amaze Zach, thenobviously we're on the right
track.
Now, just before I introduceChristian, I just wanted to
recognize the team at PernodRicard for kindly sponsoring

(05:54):
this series.
For any of you that are notfamiliar with Pernod Ricard,
they are the world leader inpremium international spirits
and their whole brand mission isaround this concept of
conviviality, which doesn't havea great translation word in
English, but it's that spirit ofcommunity friendship and when
you raise a glass and a toast tofriends, that's really the

(06:16):
experience of a convivialitywhich you will experience
anytime you visit any one oftheir brand homes in more than
35 destinations on fourcontinents.
For more information, check outperno-ricardcom.
We'll be right back.
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And now back to the show.
Now I'd like to introduce ourspecial guest for this very

(08:26):
first episode of our InDestination Experiences
Christian Latchell.
Now he is the Chief CreativeOfficer at BRC Imagination Arts
and he has had that role forover 20 years like two decades.
This guy has been leadingprojects from strategy and
design through production andopening day as you'll hear many

(08:46):
examples in our interview but hespecializes in experiential
design, tourism, sustainability,revenue operations and project
delivery.
But his whole focus is creativestorytelling and he's won many
awards for his work.
They've been at museums,cultural institutions,
entertainment attractions,global pavilions and they have

(09:09):
entertained tens of thousands ofpeople from around the world,
and his whole focus is aboutdeepening customer loyalty and
building emotional connections.
So here we go, christian.
Welcome to Travel Trends.
It's so great to have you here.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Oh, it's so great to be here and thank you, dan, for
having me join the session here.
I've been looking forward to it.
I've been a big fan of thepodcast and I feel honored to be
included today.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
That's very kind of you and thank you so much for
certainly making the time.
I know what a huge fan LauraCilio-Pivat, who works at Pernod
Ricard, that obviously we bothknow.
Obviously, she thinks the worldof you.
We've had a few greatconversations leading up to this
.
I understand why, and I'm sureour listeners will as we get
into this conversation, becauseyou, of course, are kicking off

(09:52):
this series of in-destinationexperiences in partnership with
Pernod Ricard and, interestingly, of course, you've done a
number of projects with PernodRicard.
So I would actually like tostart, though, with your
background, because I found itso fascinating myself when we
caught up previously, and I'msure our listeners will as well.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got into this space and
a little bit of background onyourself, christian.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, I think when you're in this industry of
working in, experiential andbringing destinations and places
of life, it's a culmination ofall the things that you, that
you do in your, in in your, inyour career, and the journey it
takes to get there.
Um, I don't think anybody I'veever met.
It's been a straight line.
Oh, this is what I was going todo.

(10:34):
I think now there are programs,you know, there's actually
universities that have programsaround this, but that didn't
exist back in the day and, um,so, for for myself, I started
off I was always really creativeand always into like
experiences.
I remember, even as a kid, likeplaying a lot of Dungeons and
Dragons and and like watchingStar Wars, and I was in that.

(10:56):
I was that 70s, late 70s kidthat loved all that stuff and I
had an aunt who worked for TSR,which was the the Dungeons and
Dragons sort of you know they,they, they distributed the game
back in the day, and I had anaunt who worked for TSR, which
was the Dungeons and Dragonssort of you know, they
distributed the game back in theday and I think it was all
around world building, right,like when I think back on that,
you know, star Wars had such adeep meaning back in.
You know, just thinking aboutthe world that was built, the

(11:17):
mythology around that, thecharacters, the stories, the
adventures, the sequels, whichwere just really visually rich
and interesting.
And then Dungeons and Dragons.
You had to play all thecharacters and because I was an
artist, I would draw all thecharacters, I would create all
these worlds and you'd build thewhole.
You know what the dungeon wasand how you described the story

(11:39):
and how this world was coming tolife.
And if you fast forward, manyyears later, I ended up.
I was in the Navy for a littlewhile and then when I got out of
the service, I went back toChicago, where I'm originally
from, and I worked in marketingand I got back into that
creative flow kind of learningfrom people, and I met some
great mentors and they said yougot to go to this great school
in California and I had been inCalifornia for the Navy and I

(12:02):
was like, okay, I want to getback to Southern California
because these winters in Chicagowere a little too much back,
and so I came to ArtCenter andthat's where I really got into
narrative storytelling andfiguring out.
This whole world existed aroundnot just filmmaking but that
combined filmmaking and gamingand theater and storytelling,
and all these worlds comingtogether in this world of

(12:23):
experiential design andproduction and deep stories.
So that's how I got started.
I had great teachers that, forexample, created Myst, one of
the first agency-driven games,where you got to choose your
direction, solving problems,working with the teams who were
creating Animal Kingdom for WaltDisney Imagineering, and then

(12:46):
finally getting an opportunityto work with the Universal
Creative team that was doingIslands of Adventure and getting
a chance to actually come intothat world, get a peek in and to
do these projects.
And that's what launched mycareer getting into experiential
storytelling, narrative design,all of that and it's been an
amazing world and it's onlygotten more tools and better all

(13:08):
along the way.
I'm so excited about what weget to do every day here at BRC.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, that's fantastic and I think certainly
the context of that reallyresonated with me, the fact you
went back to school and you wentto the Art Center College of
Design in Pasadena and then itwas just like the stars aligned
for you.
And then you took on this roleat BRC Imagination Arts, where
you're obviously people whoheard from the introduction you
know you're the chief creativeofficer, but you've been there

(13:34):
for over 25 years and you'vebeen involved in so many
fascinating projects.
So but in terms of going fromthen, you know the education
back into the commercial worldand BRC specifically, I think
probably it's worth letting ourlisteners in on what BRC stands
for and a little background onthe company and then we'll dive
into some of the projects.

(13:54):
But yeah, tell us a little bitabout BRC Imagination Arts, how
the company came about and whatit is you guys do.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, so I didn't know that these companies
existed.
Yeah, so I didn't know thatthese companies existed.
I thought there were only theselarge companies like Walt
Disney, imagineering and Duskfor Light and Magic and all the
universal creative.
And then there was this companythat called and it was actually
a friend of mine, marie, whoworked at Imagineering but had
joined this company BRCImagination Arts.
I'm like, well, what is that?
She said it's Bob RogersCompany, brc Imagination Arts.

(14:24):
I'm like, well, what is that?
She said it's Bob RogersCompany, but he doesn't call it
Bob Rogers Company anymore, hecalls it BRC, because it's all
about this collective of reallyfun, interesting people.
You know people withbackgrounds in theater and
technical design and magiciansand writers, and you know
screenplay.
You know like media directorsand editors and and designers,
and I'm like, okay, this soundspretty fascinating and super

(14:46):
interesting.
So I ended up getting a role atBRC right out of school and
I've been here for 27 years.
But what makes it reallyinteresting is we are a
strategic design and productionagency and our company has been
around for a long time, for over40.
We're celebrating our 45th yearand we were actually spun out

(15:08):
many years ago out of Epcot,which was kind of this permanent
World's Fair concept in Orlando, and Bob Rogers, who are who's
our founder and who's still hereand you know we work with him
every single day.
He's amazing kind of legend inthe industry.
He was doing some work for theimpressions of france film and
that's still playing at apcottoday.
It is still playing, um, everysingle day.

(15:29):
It's got to get in its book ofworld record for like the
longest standing like movie in asingle theater like in the
history of the world, right, andso still playing.
And out of that work they kindof fired bob and rehired him to
work on uh Motors, what theywere working with Disney on the
World of Motion, which was thispavilion that was going to be at

(15:52):
Epcot, which was around thisbrand story that General Motors
wanted to tell and what Disneywanted to do was do that in an
entertaining but educational way.
And BRC was brought in tocreate a series of shows and
experiences which wasessentially like a permanent
World's Fair pavilion.
And then out of that we startedworking on World's Fairs in 86.
And for Vancouver we had thetop three pavilions at the Expo

(16:16):
and then it just kind ofsnowballed from there into
working in culture and brands,and so I would say our world
really came out of Epcot.
It's a brand, it's a combinationof brand storytelling.
You know deep, you know kind ofdeep stories, with brands
bringing their narrative to life, cultural projects coming out
of, like the impressions ofFrance, and all that's going to
open on April 13th in Osaka,japan.

(16:36):
So we're still in that world,we're still doing these things,
and at the center of all of itis the heart of the audience and
we have a sort of visionstatement at the entrance of
when you come into our studio.

(16:57):
You know that in every projectthat we work on and we create,
we strive to bring out the bestin people right and bring people
together, and that's our ethos,is really around the centering
on our audiences and the guestsand the people that we can
create these meaningfulexperiences for.
And hopefully, whatever theobjectives are will vary project

(17:20):
by project, but in the end ofthe day we try to leave the
world a little bit better placeby awakening to the best in
people.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I appreciate giving us that context, especially the
background on BRC ImaginationArts, because, as you
highlighted, when at one pointyou didn't know companies that
existed and I certainly had alimited understanding that
there's these types of agenciesI mean, clearly you see these
incredible experiences come tolife and there are agencies like
yourself that actually are theones that are driving it.

(17:48):
The other thing that stood outto me just in some of the
comments you shared obviouslyDungeons and Dragons stood out
to me and the connection betweencreating transformative
experiences that I think manypeople today, post-pandemic, had
seen.
You know the Stranger Thingsexperience as an example, right.
So Stranger Things, of course,the Netflix show, where Dungeons

(18:09):
and Dragons plays a major role,and I was very much an 80s kid
so I'm very familiar withDungeons and Dragons.
But during the pandemic, ofcourse, and when I was in LA, I
did one of those Stranger Thingsexperiences and which is
brought together by Fever andtheir partnership with Netflix,
right, and they started creatingthese immersive experiences.

(18:29):
Everyone started hearing aboutimmersive experiences in the
middle and towards the end ofthe pandemic, but you were onto
this for two decades before, andso that's what I found
fascinating.
And when you look at the listof projects or the companies
you've been working with.
It is so impressive andextensive, and so I want to
share with our listeners some ofthese examples.
But maybe, before we do, let'sjust actually try and clarify

(18:50):
the terminology and the way youlook at it, because I would
actually love if you wouldn'tmind defining how you see
transformative travelexperiences and what
distinguishes that from whatotherwise would just be a
typical travel experience.
So tell us, I guess, a littlebit more, when your whole focus
is on creating transformativetravel experiences.
You've been doing it for, asyou said, 27 years, but 25 plus

(19:12):
years Tell us a little bit abouthow you would define what that
experience is.
What are you guys essentiallysetting out to do with these
partners?

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I mean it comes down to what we often like to
say is looking deep inside theheart of an audience, right,
whatever that audience is.
We know that there are amazingplaces all around the world that
have incredible stories tounlock.
And when we think about what itmeans to be transformative, it
means that visitors coming intoor guests coming into an

(19:45):
experience, whatever thathappens to be, whether it's
physical, digital, combinationof those things that they come
out in some way transformed, andthat transformation we call it
8A prime.
So we think about an audiencecoming into an experience, going
through whatever that happensto be, whether that's 30 minutes
, 60 minutes, a whole day, acouple of days at like a resort

(20:07):
or something, and coming out ofit changed in some way, and that
change is really what drivesall of the work that we do.
And that change could be ashift in attitude.
For added, they had anattitudinal shift towards
something where they thoughtthey didn't like something and
all of a sudden, you know whatactually do like that.

(20:30):
Um, a shift in in, in, inattitude, a shift in approach.
Like they may not like.
For example, like sometimes wework in whiskey and say, I know,
I don't like whiskey and all ofa sudden you know they have a
negative approach response, butthen when they come out, that
response has changed.
We're like you know what Iactually really like?
That I enjoyed that cocktail.
I didn't know I liked whiskey.
So it's a shift in attitude andapproach.

(20:53):
Sometimes it's an action we wantsomebody to do something as a
result of an experience thatwe're creating, whether that's a
purchase, journey, right.
As a result, they buy somethingor they take a memento home.
Sometimes it's an applause,it's just purely an amazing
memory that we're trying tocreate.
It's just one of those thingsthat's going to be a core.

(21:13):
You know, something that justwas so unique, so special.
Only in that moment where we'rewe're crafting something that
again people go wow, that wasjust incredible.
You have to go do x, right, andsometimes it's.
It's about that, that shift inadvocacy, right.
We're building lifelong loyal,loyal fans and advocates for for

(21:36):
a brand like, let's say, jamjameson right, where we, after
coming through this experience,not only if they were already a
fan, they're're even more inlove, but say, for example, they
weren't coming out of it.
Now they're like I love thatbrand Cause not only do I know
the brand now, but I actuallyknow the people and the story
behind it.
So we really think oftransformation, at least in our

(21:57):
world.
There's lots of differenttransformations that can happen
in your life.
You know you can have anaccident something like that
happened in my life where itchanged my trajectory.
But there's other things thatas we craft these experiences,
we build these amazing places inthese journeys, that you do
them with an intention, thatthere is actually an objective
of transformation within that.

(22:18):
And that's how we look at theseprojects, and every one of our
projects has that, whether it'sa museum, where it's around a
subject, or it's a brand andit's around the brand narrative
and the story, or it's somethingaround a global idea that's
happening at a major, majorglobal event.
So that's the way we thinkabout transformation, but it is
very intentional and it has tobe designed with that in mind

(22:40):
from the very beginning.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, I think this is where it's fascinating for me
to speak to someone like youthat has this background and
expertise, because I shared theone example with a Stranger
Things type experience broughtto life by companies like Fever,
and they do a whole wide rangeof events with this whole
immersive experience.
And another company that I'mfamiliar with, and I'm sure you

(23:05):
are as well, is Meow.
I've been to a couple of theirvenues, like the one in Vegas,
the Mega Mart.
What I would love to understandfrom your vantage point because
, again, not only are you aheadof the curve on this, but you've
also launched a number ofinitiatives I would like to
understand how it comes about.
That's my Canadian out andabout.
Understand how it comes about.
So, I guess the and that's myCanadian out in a boot.
How does this come about?

(23:26):
How do you actually create,like, what is the process, I
guess, of designing atransformative travel experience
and I know it's not alwaystravel, but in many cases of us,
what we're thinking about isthe in-destination travel
experiences people are having.
But how do you identify, Iguess, the emotions or the
outcomes Really interesting?
You just gave it a greatexample of like whiskey.
Someone didn't like that beforeand I for sure have had
experiences where all of asudden, once you get the context

(23:48):
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understand how something isactually made and the process
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Speaker 1 (26:50):
Tell us how that all comes about when you're actually
designing a transformativeexperience working with a client
.
Take us Dublin, for example,with Jameson Amazing brand,
incredible story.
John Jameson, real person.
Some people don't even know Isit just a brand, whether they're
from Canada or from the UnitedStates or from visiting from
India or wherever in the worldthey're coming from.

(27:11):
Dublin's a quite internationalcity.
So we always start with theaudience.
Who are they?
Where are they coming from?
What are their desires?
What are their hopes and dreams?
What are they thinking about Ifthey've got three days out in
Dublin?
What are they going to do?
What's on their to-do list?

(27:34):
So we always have to respect theaudience.
So we always start with thatfirst and foremost, and we do
that in a variety of differentways.
Obviously, there's differentinsights, groups we work with
who can get us that information.
We work with the travel andtourism boards to understand the
audiences.
When are they coming?
Understand a little bit moreabout you know the makeup, also,
kind of look forward.
You know where you are today,but where is Dublin going in the

(27:58):
future?
You know how are they expandingthe airport?
What are the new routes thatthey're thinking about?
Who are the future audiencesthat are coming right, and also
we get under the hood and westart to meet with people right,
and we love to do interviewsand start to get not just
questionnaires but really startto understand real lovers of a
brand or people who are comingand really dig into that sort of

(28:22):
incredible audience insight.
So the first thing, first andforemost, is understanding that
audience and by understandingthe audience you can get inside
their heart and inside theirhead as well, but mainly the
heart, because what we'relooking for as storytellers and
deep storytellers is on theemotion.
So we're looking to see wherethat is.
Second part of it is we startwith the brand.

(28:43):
We look at the brand andwhether that's a museum, we look
at the subject that we'retrying to tell.
But in the world of, let's say,for example, jameson, we're
looking at the heart of thebrand.
So that takes, again, an equalamount of deep research and
listening.
So what we do in that is we doa lot of what we call insight.
You know, again, immersion intothe brand Like, really the thing

(29:05):
about immersion, right, is.
The best example of that is towhen you jump into a pool.
You're completely immersed andevery sense of your body is
transformed because you're in anew world.
Right, it's wet, it could becold, it could be warm, but
you're immersed in something.
For us, we really need to getimmersed into a brand and that
means that we spend the timewith everybody, from marketing

(29:26):
to leadership to innovation andthe archive teams.
I can tell you, like on Jameson, working with Carol Quinn,
who's the archivist for IrishDistillers, going down to Cork,
spending time and learning thestories and going, ok, who are
these people?
Who is John Jameson?

(29:47):
Where did this whole thing start?
What was the sort of trajectoryof the brand?
What's the history behind it?
What's the history behind it?
Even though we're going to usehistory primarily as a fuel for
the future, it's important toknow where we come from in order
to build a future dynamic right, a future connection to modern
audiences.
But we try to look for thesehooks and through that work of

(30:07):
finding the heart of the, theaudience, in the heart of the
brand, then you bring the twotogether and you find out where
do they overlap, what are peoplelooking for and their hopes and
desires and what in the brandaligns with that and their
objectives, and then trying tofind a place where those things
come together and that starts tocreate a sort of a place where

(30:30):
you can start to develop a theme.
You know, because a theme is inthe world of storytelling.
A theme is that, the world ofstorytelling.
A theme is that central coreidea.
You may not ever say it, it'snot a marketing slogan, but it's
the deep, like the deep centralidea that connects everything
together.
And then finding the way tocreate the right experiences, or
, you know, a variety ofexperiences over time, that then

(30:53):
you can give the audience whatthey're looking for, give them
something that not only whatthey're looking for, but even
exceeding that, right Going.
Okay, they're all looking forthis when they come to Dublin,
but if we do this and that andwe think about this thing, we're
going to give them anexperience they never thought
about before, beyond theirwildest dreams.

(31:13):
Right, if they're a realJameson aficionado and lover,
then they're going to have thebest Jameson experience ever.
So that's where we start.
We always start with that deeplistening, that deep immersion,
the insights, work, all of that.
And then from there we craftthat theme statement and we find
those key objectives and that'swhere we start to develop our

(31:36):
stories.
And story always comes out ofthose things and never before.
So that's how we get into theprocess and then from there it
becomes whether it's this typeof journey or that kind of
experience or what they'relooking for.
It's going to vary by peopleplace and in in what we're doing
, depending on, again, thelocation.
I hope that answered thebeginning of how it begins, but

(32:01):
obviously there's a lot of workto get to something that's open
and then really resonates withaudiences.
But that's where we start andthat's probably the most
important foundational work youcan do, because if you don't
build your house with a strongfoundation, it won't hold up, as
we all know.
It's just over time it willweaken and it will fall apart.
So you've got to have thatstrong foundation.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, and the other thing I wanted to ask you just
on this approach, because youknow, when you some of the
companies you mentionedcertainly Disney obviously being
a great example, but companieslike Pixar, which obviously
became Disney, but the team thatwere going on that journey to
create obviously became Disney,but the team that were going on
that journey to create theseincredible animated films, there
is obviously a very defined artto storytelling and, as started

(32:42):
by Shakespeare, in terms of theacts and where you are in the
story as the plot thickens andultimately as a resolution.
And I guess, when I think so, Iguess I'm somewhat familiar with
that approach to storytelling,certainly in presentations, but
when it comes to an immersiveexperience, what I'm curious to
know is how much of the definedformula is something that you

(33:03):
already have that you executeagainst, meaning that you kind
of have a very clear path todeveloping a transformative
experience where you know itneeds to achieve these three or
four elements, and how much ofthat is in customized, based on
the brand.
I'll give you the one examplelike with Meow Wolf, the whole
idea, as I understand it, is tobe self-directed and have agency

(33:24):
over your environment, so thatyou are, you know you're.
Basically it's a choose yourown adventure type experience
where you're uncovering thisworld, and that's, it seems,
what's resonated with a lot ofpeople, that that that go to
their venues.
So yeah, so I guess my questionI'm just genuinely keen to know
this, I hope our audience aswell is like when you're
developing any of these projects.
And then I want to walk througha couple of examples with you

(33:45):
and let's let's definitely doJameson, but I guess I'm trying
to understand how much of it isthe formula that you have that
you guys know that works andagain, you don't have to reveal
all the secrets here but likehow much of it is like kind of a
process that you know thatworks and is effective, and then
how much of that is customizedon behalf of the brand and
telling their story.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I mean that's again another great question,
and I think what peoplesometimes confuse, let's start,
is that this is a very differentformat and a very different
medium than, let's say,filmmaking or writing a novel or
even creating a video game oreven a piece of theater.

(34:24):
It kind of binds all of thosethings so you can't use the same
rules.
I think a lot of people sort ofgo to those worlds and pull
from them, but we've actuallyBob, our founder, is actually
working on a new book and now becoming out.
Regarding this sort of uniqueformat of storytelling, what's
always true is respecting theaudience, respecting the place

(34:48):
and respecting the story thatyou have.
Whether it's a new story thatyou're building from scratch,
like the Chuan, which we cantalk about another project we
did with Pernod Ricard in Chinaor a story like Jameson, which
has a 200-year history thatyou're building from and you're
respecting, there is no setformula other than we need to

(35:11):
define the audience and we needto define what the change in
that audience will be.
That is for sure the roadmapfor understanding how to create
transformation, exactly who thataudience is, the context of it,
the actual story and theobjectives are completely

(35:33):
different project to projectthere is no two that I've ever
worked on that there's that arethe same because they in order
to respect the audience, theaudiences aren't the same, nor
is the place, and nor is theobjectives.
Often they're very, very, verydifferent.
So we don't we don't kind ofcome from that perspective of
there is a formula set andthat's it, of come from that

(35:57):
perspective of there is aformula set and that's it.
With that being said, what wehave seen um, an increasing
amount of and we'll go back tothe meow wolf example is that we
have seen a greater influenceon the world of gaming and
agency, you know, angentic sortof approach to projects.
Right, and I think that'simportant because we have the

(36:17):
tools now which we really didn'thave.
Well, we always had them insome way, but we have better
tools today to be able to givepeople more agency in what
they're doing and give them anopportunity to, you know, have
an experience before they arrive, have an amazing experience in
real life and then extend thatexperience after.

(36:39):
So there's all kinds of newthings with digital and physical
, that allow us to do a varietyof additional, you know,
experiences beyond just what'sdone in the venue, and I think
that's super interesting and weare doing that.
We're.
It's sort of something thatcertain people in the industry
we talk about story livingversus storytelling, and

(37:00):
storytelling is very much aone-way conversation.
Right, we're going to tell youa story, let's go to the theater
, let's experience it.
Of course, you're mirrorneurons and all those things are
happening.
You're feeling the story.
You know it's scary.
You're feeling stuff and it'svery it is still interactive,
but in a much more passive way,whereas today, in our
experiences, we're reallythinking about all of those

(37:23):
things combined the theater, thefilmmaking, the storytelling,
the immersive environments, thesets that you can walk through,
the digital overlay of that, oreven just the ability for you to
feel and smell and touch andengage all those things that we
get to use in our toolbox.
That allows us to do a lot moreand give the audiences

(37:44):
different choices, differentoptions, things that they can
choose to do or not do, andthat's exciting.
I mean, the world is amazing inthat way now, and I think you
could see that in the success of, let's say, meow Wolf in Las
Vegas.
You know, and I think that youknow, that's just, hands over,
just a really great experience.
You talked a lot about theNetflix team.

(38:05):
A lot of you know some of thatteam is their alumni at BRC they
come out of.
You know we've worked togetherfor years and years and years
together, which are amazing, andlove that whole team over there
and they're doing incrediblework.
So I mean we are, we're at thisamazing place in the world of
crafting experiences, but as wecraft them, we are being very

(38:28):
respectful to the audience andgiving them the things that they
want, and they do want a senseof purpose and a role to play.
They are a character in thisenvironment, not just a viewer
of it, and I think that has beenone of the biggest shifts that
we've seen and we know when wedo that, it's great.
And the second piece I'd say tothat is that it's also not a one

(38:50):
size fits all.
As we get into a project likeJameson we could talk about that
we realize that there'saudiences within audiences and
even in a place like Dublin, nota there's not a one size fits
all.
Right, there's a lot of peoplecoming with different agendas.
That could be time, you know,and we have to respect their
time.
So there's a lot of thingsaround travel that are different

(39:12):
, sort of levers that we have tobe very respectful of, because
at the end of the day, if wedon't respect the audience and
their time and what they'regiving to us, then it never
works right.
We're going to have somethingwhere the project's not going to
be successful and do the thingsthat we hope it does.
So I hope that answered thequestion.
But it really is a whole worldof story living, not just

(39:34):
storytelling, but it's stilldeep story.
It still happens in here, inthe heart of the audience.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah Well, I'm keen to hear specifically how that
does come to life with Jamison.
I know a couple of team membersI've not had the privilege to
actually visit.
However, I have a number offriends who have that have told
me it's amazing, and I also knowhow successful that venue like
obviously it's won a ton ofawards.
I know it's available to bebooked on all like the big OTAs

(40:03):
on Viator and Get your Guide andit's like it's a landmark
destination.
It's a reason to travel toDublin.
Obviously, there's many reasonsto go to Ireland, but it's
specifically a reason why peoplethey build it in Even obviously
, my background, of course, isin the tour space and I know a
lot of touring brands that haveliterally built this destination
, built this into their tripportfolios because their guests

(40:26):
want to go there.
So this is a cool experience forme to speak to the person who's
behind all of that.
So I mean, I just thought I'dshare that context for our
listeners, even though I haven'thad the chance to go, but I
think many of our listenerslikely have.
But since we have the privilegenow of actually asking the
mastermind behind how this callcame together, walk us through

(40:47):
the experience at Jameson.
I mean, I know what I've read,I know what I've heard and I see
like you've got the blindfoldson and like this different
sensory experience and likeyou're like working like a, like
a magician, in the lab withmixing things together, so like
it's interactive.
But yeah, so yeah, walk usthrough what the experience is
like on bow street with Jamesonand maybe just add a few little

(41:09):
details as you, as as you sharethat about how that came about,
the way it did or why it's assuccessful as it has, I guess
ultimately.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Well, it's, it's ireland, so let's just start
there.
I mean, I mean it's one of myfavorite places in the world to
work and to visit and we've beenvery fortunate to work in
dublin on some other reallyoutstanding attractions.
You know we were able to work,uh, with the storehouse for a
little while on what they weredoing, but um, but the but the
thing is, uh that you know, withGuinness, but the the.
The key thing here, um withwith Jameson, was this is an

(41:41):
incredible brand, um, uh, thiswould have been back probably
about 2015 when we startedworking on this project, and it
was one of those.
When it came, when it came inthe doors like they're, they're
looking.
You know they called us andthey said we're looking to redo
our Jameson experience in Dublin.
Some of us had been there andhad taken some photos of it

(42:04):
years ago.
It was very much a museum.
It had mannequins in it and allkinds of very, very traditional
approach.
We were fortunate enough to getinto the shortlist and get
accepted.
You know we won the bid andthen, once we started working
with the Jameson team, it wasunbelievable, and I want to
start by saying these projectsonly happen because of great

(42:27):
partnerships and great clients.
I mean, at the end of the day,we, of course, are serving an
audience which are theamesonfans around the world who just
love this brand.
But ultimately, like the teamthat you work with matters and
and we had an incredible teamnot only at jameson but also
partners with, with pranayrickard, which were, they,

(42:50):
really believed in the power ofexperiences.
They understood how importantthey were to be direct with
their audiences on a day-to-daybasis because they had seen with
Jameson out in the market, allthese activations, whether they
were in Chicago and they weredoing something or they were
doing an activation in Singapore.
This brand was really startingto gain momentum as an Irish

(43:12):
whiskey brand.
It was really starting to leadthe way of bringing the Irish
whiskey category back into thespotlight.
You know, there was obviouslyscotch and American bourbon and
American whiskey and whiskeysfrom all over the world, but
there was something specialabout Jameson and what we
realized early on, and what theyhad realized as well, was that

(43:32):
there was a misalignment betweenthe experience in Dublin, where
it was very much a museum andyou could walk through it, but
it wasn't.
It didn't fit the brand.
The brand team had actuallyevolved Jameson into this very,
I'd say, contemporary, very, um,accessible but also very like

(43:53):
fun, exciting brand.
Um, you know lots of reallycool activations and you'd come
to Dublin and it just was justthe opposite.
It kind of felt old and kind oflike you know, just felt like a
little bit of the older man'swhiskey experience and not quite
Jameson.
So that's where we started,like let's get under the hood of

(44:14):
this brand and reallyunderstand it.
And what we found was just thiscompelling, momentum building
brand that was just really onfire all over the world and was
just selling more and more casesand you know, every single year
.
And we said we're better offyou guys are better off closing
this honestly than keeping itopen if you're not going to redo

(44:35):
it, because the brand damagethat you can have is that you
know the mindset of I went tothis great activation in Boston
and then I come here and thisisn't Jameson.
So we had to get that inalignment.
So we started really figuringthat out.
Who are those audiences, Justlike we talked about, went to
the archives, went to Carroll,got excited about the real
history of Jameson, finding outwhat is it about Smithfield in

(44:58):
Dublin, what is it about thisplace in Dublin?
That's incredible.
Who are the people behind thestory.
Of course there's John Jamesonand of course, his sons, and
then there's this incrediblehistory of different distillers
and makers and blenders alongthe history of this brand
Incredible stories, and what wealso found is that fans really

(45:20):
like Jameson was really loved.
It was like it was on peopleyou know, people had tattoos of
it Like there was like truebrand love around this thing.
So that allowed us to sort ofsay you know what?
We need to reinvent this?
We need to really think of thisin a different way.
One they were a little stagnanton how many visitors they could
attract because they hadlimitations on the size.
So we said, okay, let's justsort of clean slate.

(45:43):
If we could do anything, whatwould we do?
Let's be able to serve morepeople.
So we doubled the amount oftours immediately.
In the concept, we always knewwe wanted to have one great
experience for those entry likenot entry level but the
audiences who may not know thestory of Jameson or why it's in
Dublin and what is it about thisgreat brand.

(46:04):
So we had one experience theBow Street experience.
That was going to be that entryto intermediate level
experience where you were goingto get the heart of the story
and that really followed.
You know, when we think aboutthings, we think about process.
It really followed the line ofa bit of the history of Jameson
learning about the process ofmaking Jameson.

(46:25):
Of course, the proof is alwaysin the taste.
So that first that liquid tolips moment, glass in hand, they
were serving in plastic.
We're like, you know, that'snot Jameson.
Jameson needs to be glass inhand.

(46:54):
You know, we got to get thisliquid to lips.
This has got to be the perfectmoment.
So we really choreographed thatexperience so that people could
have that sort of grounding,right, that wonderful experience
.
And we knew we wanted torespect people's time because
they're trying to do more stuff.
So we made sure that experiencewasn't too long.
So that was one part of it.
But we also realized right fromthe beginning that we wanted to
flip the script.
Oftentimes with experiences,especially whiskey experiences,
before we did Bow Street, it waslike you had your booking, you
got on your tour, you did yourtour, you're done.
We wanted to say no, one of usI think it was John Carroll,

(47:16):
who's one of our, you know, andClaire Tolan and Paula Reynolds,
the people that we worked withon a day-to-day basis on this
project.
We said we want people to walkin and we want them to come into
the greatest Jameson bar in theworld.
The bar was a star, so rightwhen you walk through the door,
we've got these double bars.
It actually uses a lot of thehistoric elements of the actual

(47:37):
original distillery.
This is actually where Jamesonwas made in Dublin.
This is the real hallowedground and we were able to
create a bar that today, like Icould tell you back when we
started the project in 2015, wewere in there on a January, like
a January, like mid January,you know, after the holiday
season, and you know you couldhave, like you, you could have

(47:59):
shot a cannon there, not hitanybody.
I mean, it was just like therewas nobody in there.
I was there, uh, this yeararound the same time.
It was packed.
It was absolutely packed, likethere were people at every
single seat, every single booth.
People are jamming, they'regoing on tours.
It just was a completelydifferent thing.
So we wanted to putconviviality at the heart.

(48:21):
That's Pernod Ricard.
It's about bringing peopletogether.
So what brings people togetheraround a drink is this amazing
bar space, and not just one bar,but two right and not only a
bar but a space where we coulddo Bow Street sessions, we could
do live performances and allduring the St St Paddy's Day
Festival this last, you know,last couple of weeks.

(48:42):
I mean they were jamming withbands and all kinds of live
performance, all things kind ofall these things we imagine.
Right from the beginning wewanted to be alive, wanted to
not feel like something that wasa museum, but a space you felt
like really just excited to comeinto.
And then, in addition to that,we reconfigured everything in
this space to like think aboutwhere retail would go.

(49:04):
We knew that we had people whoreally wanted to understand
Jameson cocktails.
So we built an incrediblecocktail space.
We do a great cocktail class.
It's, you know, the footprintof that, like just the
foundation of that is fantastic.
They built and they've changedlittle things over time, but it
was always this incredible spacethat it could transform.

(49:25):
We have a great blendersexperience again that people
love to kind of come in andlearn about blending, because
Jameson is this incredible blendand has some incredible, you
know, whiskeys and we wanted tomake sure that that was in there
and we could talk about thatpiece.
We wanted to bring warehouse,like maturation, back into the
heart of Dublin, and we did thatthrough having this amazing

(49:47):
warehouse space, which is a realworking warehouse, and being
able to do tastings, and we evenhave like little private spaces
in rooms where we could dowhiskeys and chocolates or
specialty.
You know, look at the entireIrish range of Irish distillers.
People could try Red Breast,they could try other things in
addition to Jameson.
So it was really, when youthink about it, this
experiential platform that wasgrounded in one theme, right of

(50:10):
bringing the hospitality ofJameson to life in a physical
way and then giving people lotsof different options that they
can enjoy.
If they just had 20 minutes andwanted to come in for the best
Irish coffee in the city, theycan do it, but if they had a
little bit more time, they cango on a tour.
If they had a little bit moretime, they could take a
wonderful class and go on agreat journey with us, and all

(50:34):
those things are available.
So you have again choice.
You have agency, even withinthose things, to do your own
thing, try things, you know, bewith a friend, and we always had
the heart of just bringingpeople together at the heart of
all of that and there's no placelike Dublin that brings that
sort of great Irish storytellingand great Irish hospitality

(50:57):
into one place.
And Jameson Bow Street is that.
It really embodies all of thosevalues and principles and
that's why I think it's done sowell and it's obviously been a
success.
And, yeah, it's one of theworld's leading distillery
experience five times in a row,I mean.
So that just tells you the kindof kind of love and joy that

(51:17):
people have around it.
And it's still.
It's still.
We've had weddings, we've hadall kinds of stuff happen there
and I just, I just love, I justlove it.
It's, it's a great, it's agreat project.
But it shows if you, if you dorespect the audience and you
tell that story of people, place, process and you do it with a
sense of purpose and heart,really great things can happen.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, well, you've convinced me.
Obviously I was already keen togo and having this conversation
with you.
My wife's family is all IrishCatholic and my father-in-law
certainly likes Irish whiskeyand Jamestown is the drink of
choice.
So that's how I got introducedto the brand and I didn't know
that I liked whiskey, but Idiscovered that I actually like
Irish whiskey.
That was my big discovery and Ididn't realize the difference
between the different types ofwhiskeys.

(51:59):
But what I was going to say isthat you know, I've been to the
Guinness Storehouse and some ofthe other projects that you've
worked on, but not Jameson.
I guess the one thing I justwanted to ask you, just as a bit
of a follow-up question onJameson specifically, because in
all measures of success whetherit's awards or engagement and
the number of people that passthrough each year the thing I

(52:19):
just want to ask you as far asmeasure of success, when I think
about an experience like that,obviously there's many great
accomplishments, which is likelyincreasing to more people
becoming familiar with the brand.
So obviously brand awareness isone success metric.
But the part that always reallyintrigues me about this concept
with brand homes is that whenyou take someone that is, let's

(52:40):
say, a Jameson fan already andyou give them an opportunity to
come and visit and youessentially have someone that
becomes that much more of alifetime advocate for the brand
by virtue of having had theexperience and understanding the
story and like you give them.
But there's obviously peoplethat come into this this is more
to your point about people thatdidn't even realize what they

(53:01):
were about to experience andthey come out as a big fan of
the brand just by virtue of theexperience that they've had.
And I guess I'm just I'mgenuinely curious I guess this
is kind of a personal,professional question Like when
you think of the measures ofsuccess and getting back to your
point about a transformativetravel experience, like what is
the impact you want to have hadon someone?

(53:21):
I know the business metrics,like people you know they
purchase tickets, they maypurchase more spirits and like.
So there's like a direct causeand effect of the commercial
benefit.
Curious when you think you knowyourself, when you see it
packed like that and you seepeople's response is the joy in
part, of giving the existingfans an amazing experience.

(53:41):
Is it the number of people thatyou're bringing over that are
all of a sudden that are kind ofconverted.
What is it for you that reallyis that measure of success?
That you can kind of step backand look at it and go, yeah, I'm
really proud of what weaccomplished there kind of step
back and look at it and go yeah,I'm really proud of what we
accomplished there.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
You know, for me it's and, I would imagine, a lot of
people who work in this space atthe end of the day, we don't do
these things for ourselves.
We don't even necessarily dothem, I would imagine, even for

(54:24):
the brands in some way.
Yeah, there's that commercialperspective, but my favorite
part of a project is watching aproject open and seeing the
guests' smiles, seeing theresponse they're is like
experiential, like at least atBRC.
If we really say that we're inour, in our mission and our
value statement of saying we'rehere to awaken the bat, like to

(54:44):
create experiences that arememorable and bring more joy and
more, you know, purpose to theworld, but also create, awaken
the best in all of us, then, forfor us, the ultimate test there
is how did the audience feelabout it and did they come away
experiencing the things we werehoping, and even more so?
So that, to me, is the mostimportant thing.

(55:06):
You know, I was just looking up, you know, like even from this
weekend, you know, five starthing on TripAdvisor, just like
feedback from Jameson around,just, you know, this couple that
went and they just Emily, youknow, was patient, like the way
that they talk about the peoplethey met.
They didn't just meet a bottle,right.
They met Emily at Jameson BowStreet, right, they met a person

(55:31):
that gave them a sort of memorythat they'll remember.
That gave them a sort of memorythat they'll remember.
Not only that, but they metsomebody from Ireland who gave
them that Irish hospitality andstorytelling and experience in
Dublin.
That is something that they'renot going to forget.
This may be the only timethey've ever go to Dublin, right

(55:51):
, their family, like you said,your wife's family's from
Ireland and I have a lot offriends in Chicago that I grew
up with that you know they haveIrish roots.
They may only go to Dublin onetime.
So we have a responsibility tocreate experiences that when
somebody comes, they feel great.
They just walk away feelingwonderful about everything, why

(56:14):
they were in our care, at leastat these brand homes, that we
completely took care of themfrom the moment they walked
through the door to the momentwe said goodbye, and if they had
a great experience, then that'sa halo effect for everybody.
It means that they had a greattime in Dublin, which is great
for tourism overall.
People are traveling, they wantto come and go.

(56:35):
You know Ireland is such agreat place, dublin's a
wonderful place.
You got to go.
It's great for Irish tourism,you know, just in general, that
word of mouth that spreads andit's also just great for the
community because, you know, asthings are more challenged with
over-tourism and other thingsthat we're dealing with as an
industry, we also have to berespectful that we are creating

(56:57):
really great experiences thatdon't feel too rushed or too
short or whatever it happens tobe, and that people are walking
away, visitors are coming awaywith these memories that are
really these love marks thatthey have.
And if we do that, then as atravel industry and brand homes
being one element of this thenwe are really delivering, not

(57:20):
just for that commercial aspectfor Jameson, but we're
delivering for Dublin, the city,and we're delivering for Irish
tourism in general as a whole,because it matters.
And when you have badexperiences and people don't do
things with craft and care andthey do them cheaply and they
just try to go for I don't know,we all been through those

(57:41):
things where you go well, thatwas a jip or that didn't.
What was that all about?
I think it's negative, itcreates a negative effect and I
think if we respect the audience, respect the brands and they're
truly Irish brands in this casewith Jameson then we're
respecting everybody in a way tobring, lift everybody up and
give a great experience.
And so that's where my sense ofthis comes from, and I hope

(58:03):
that that's what we're doing andwe're getting those smiles and
we're creating incrediblememories for people.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, it's interesting because obviously
everything then flows from that.
Right, if that's the spiritthat you're coming from and that
it comes, you know it's almostvery sincere, it's pure, it's
coming from a good place andit's like that.
That's the transformativeeffect you want to have on
someone, and the measure ofsuccess for you is looking at a
TripAdvisor review and feelingthat sense of you know, pride,
validation, that it's just like,yes, that's exactly the

(58:29):
connection that we wanted tomake.
It's interesting to hear that.
That's why I wanted to ask you,because obviously it's.
You know, that's um, there'smany other measures, but
ultimately that's what motivatedyou, but it leads to all those
other outcomes and and um, Iguess, christian, I'm keen.
I know you have so many otherprojects.
I want to ask about one otherone, but I actually want to give
you the opportunity because soI totally understand uh, the uh,

(58:50):
the brand home experiences andyou, obviously you work with a
number of brand homes, withPernod Ricard and like with
Scotland and there's likethere's many great examples, but
there's also you work in sports.
I mean, I'm a huge baseball fan.
I know you work with theMilwaukee Brewers.
You work with, like, theOakland Raiders.
You created the tour for theOakland Raiders.
You work in music.
You know the.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Grand Ole.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Opry, and it's like you work in, you know, with Ford
, you work with NASA, like it'sjust like so, and that's where I
guess I guess how well-roundedwhen you're trying to design
these different experiences.
I wanted to give you anopportunity to share another
great example because, again,like you have a way to bring it
to life that is that much moreprofound than you know.

(59:32):
Certainly, reading about it ona website, but also even for
someone who's actually been orbased on this conversation, is
going to plan to go.
They're going to go with a newlens on it because they got a
chance to hear from Christian.
So I guess I would actuallylike to give you the opportunity
to highlight what is one of theother projects that you've
worked on with BRC to deliverwith a client.

(59:54):
That is one of the that itreally stands out to you that
you're just like.
This was something that wereally knocked out of the park.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Yeah, well, there's there's a few that are upcoming
too, that we're really excitedabout.
We're.
We're always excited about thenext, the next thing Well, we
had a.
We had some opportunities towork in in spaces that are a
little bit a little bit, youknow, kind of hybrids, you know.
I'll give you two examples, butI'll focus on one.
You know, so we've been in theprocess of sort of reimagining

(01:00:24):
the Rock and Roll Hall of Famein Cleveland, ohio, for a long
time.
In fact, we've been on thisjourney with them for almost 12
years.
We're now in phase four of that, which is a large expansion,
first major expansion in 25years, and so we're really
excited about what's coming upon that one to the whole spirit
and attitude of rock and roll,in a way that rock and roll can

(01:00:46):
move and connect us in ways, andreally that spirit of youth and
rebellion and sort of youthculture that's so embedded in
that.
And that's a great example ofwhere you could take something

(01:01:07):
that was sort of could be seenas something from the past but
you make it contemporary.
Another example of that whichis the one I want to talk to,
that I feel really good aboutprofessionally in my own career
was.
We've been working together withthe Henry Ford Museum of
American Innovation for over 20years and this is something that

(01:01:28):
when I first started in theindustry, or was one of the
first clients I started to workwith, and we've been ongoing and
have worked with each other onnumerous projects, but there was
one project in particular thatcame about around Ford's
centennial and it was a projectthat is actually it's a weird,

(01:01:50):
it's not a weird, it's a reallyinteresting partnership in a
sense that we were going tocreate a factory tour for Ford,
but it was going to be inconjunction with and in
relationship with the museum,the Henry Ford Museum of
American Innovation, which isnot really funded by Ford.
In fact, we did a Racing inAmerica exhibit and General

(01:02:12):
Motors was the main sponsor forthat.
So I think sometimes people getconfused that it's like the
Ford Motor Company Museum andit's not at all.
But the museum is one of thetop museums in the United States
.
It has an incredible collectionand what we were able to do
there is to create one of thetop factory tours in the United
States, and we've done it withreimagining the Rouge, which was

(01:02:36):
Bill Ford's vision to notabandon this site but to turn it
into a model of 21st centurymanufacturing.
So that project completelychanged my perspective.
As a designer, I got a chance towork with Bill McDonough and
his partners, who created anincredibly new, sustainable
vision for what the factorywould be.
Taking this very industrialsite that was really had a lot

(01:02:59):
of chemicals and a lot of reallynegative things that had
happened over time, andreconverting it through
remediation and other techniquesand green roofs and soils,
bringing nature back to createthis incredible factory and as a
model of what's possible in anyindustrial situation.
And then to take that masterproject and then bring together

(01:03:22):
like that, with a purpose-builtexperience around how innovation
works right and how thisparticular site was sort of the
beginning of, you know, a lot ofthings that happened in terms
of whether it was unions orfuture of work or the way that
you can look at 21st centurymanufacturing and sustainable in
different ways and using energyin a different way.

(01:03:44):
That project, honestly, wassomething that really
transformed the way that wethink about projects in general
at BRC.
It allows us to think aboutthings with a different sense of
purpose and to show thatthere's a new model for how we
can work and what we can do intothe future and we've actually

(01:04:09):
updated the project twice,reinventing itself for the
innovation that is happening ona day-to-day basis in
manufacturing and in the futureof these brands, and what
they're working on.
And give kids an access, givethem opportunities to see this
stuff in a way they've neverdone.
And we created one show, forexample, when we redid the tour.

(01:04:31):
We created this experiencewhere it was like just the
innovation of manufacturing.
It was this show that hadactual working robots that we
pulled from the factory.
They weren't even designed toever do what we wanted them to
do.
When we met with the roboticspecialists, they're like you
want it to do what?
No, believe us, it's acharacter in the story, it'll be
fine.
We basically print this youknow F-150 in front of you and

(01:04:53):
we bring it to life and we tellthe story of innovation.
And we've had school groups inthere and you know the kids are
all like on their phones doingthis and then they just put them
away Because as soon as thething starts to activate and
become this amazing immersivestorytelling environment where
there's robots and there'sprojection and there's magic
tricks coming out of everycorner, people just they put it

(01:05:15):
all away and even the teachersare like, how did you do that?
Because these kids don't payattention to anything.
They usually walk out screamingand clapping and then they want
to go on a tour and doeverything else.
It's an amazing experience towatch.
I think it's really again thatresponsibility of thinking about
how can we kind of bring thesestories to life in new ways,

(01:05:38):
show that there is theseincredible ways in which
manufacturing is changing andthat there are still people at
the heart of everything thatwe're doing and we do it in a
way that gets kids excited andadults excited.
And whether you like trucks,you don't like trucks, it
doesn't matter.
People just love it.
They absolutely love theexperience.
So, anyway, that's just oneexample of a completely

(01:06:00):
different project and again,that relationship between the
museum and the brand is superinteresting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
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If we take, I guess, a broaderview of what's happening here,

(01:09:07):
because it seems like you'vebeen in this space for many
years this space, however, hasjust really continued to take
off in, say, the last five years.
We're having this conversation,of course, in 2025.
And since the pandemic, itseems like there's more, and
where people are today in theirtravel interests.
And what do you think is, Iguess, driving this?

(01:09:31):
I'm going to make this, if it'sall right with you, christian,
kind of a two-part question,just to give you the floor,
because you mentioned phones andtechnology, and that's actually
where I was going to go next.
But what I'd love to know fromyour vantage point, given that
there is such a cultural,societal and even just really
understanding how you make thehuman connection, which needs to
be, if anything, contemporary,relevant to our times, um, and

(01:09:55):
also have a meaningful impact.
So, as you're thinking that allthrough working on these
projects, like now that thisindustry and, um, this whole
idea of immersive in destinationexperiences is really coming to
the forefront, I guess I'd loveto understand what do you think
is driving that?
Because you've obviously seenthat develop and you're seeing

(01:10:15):
new clients come to you withdifferent projects.
So what do you think is drivingthat?
And then, where do you see therole of technology within that,
to either enhance the experienceor offer remote experiences?
When do you decide thattechnology plays a role and when
do you realize that actuallyit's part of people's desire to
disconnect and get out into thereal world and experience it for
themselves?

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Yes, it's great.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
So why don't we?

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
we'll do it and it will do it in both of those.
That that order.
It's really.
It's really interesting becauseI was just at South by
Southwest and we were talkingabout this with a bunch of
different experienced leadersand you know all in experiential
design and storytelling and Ithink you know the pandemic, you

(01:10:58):
know that whole thing did a lotto a lot of us.
Like I just think we havealmost like a global sort of
PTSD around it.
But one of the things I thinkis true, that was one of the
accelerators of that was twothings at once and two things
can be true at the same time.
One, it did accelerate ourantisocial reality, and this

(01:11:24):
device is two things.
While we call it social networks, it's created a lot of
fragmentation, more than we'veever seen, and it's created a
lot of loneliness and we have aworld where a lot of people are
generally lonely and antisocialand there's plenty of articles
about this around that, aboutthis around that, and I think

(01:11:51):
that that's something that weall need to be very conscious of
and sort of figure out our rolein which we play into that or
not play into that.
Setting all that aside, I thinkthe antidote to that being the
antisocial situation is that wesaw people realizing how
important it was to cometogether, and there are places

(01:12:12):
where people no matter you know,I don't want to get into
politics, nobody does but it'slike there are places where we
can still come together and allbe one group, all cheering our
team, whether that's a sportvenue or we're going to a
concert and we're seeing, youknow, metallica play at SoFi
Stadium, Like we're all, likeall Metallica fans and which I
am and I think that you knowthere's something about real

(01:12:36):
life experiences that allow usto bring that conviviality going
back.
I love that word that Pernoduses, because I really believe
it is the ability for us to cometogether and connect us,
believe it is the ability for usto come together and connect us
, and I think music does that,sports does that, and
experiences like Meow Wolf andexperiences that we create.
Where you've got this greatreview?

(01:12:57):
I was just reading about peoplebeing in a cocktail class with
you know, 14 other strangers,you know, and there are a couple
who came in and they met allthese people and they went out
for dinner afterward.
You know, where does thathappen?
Well, it happens in the spacesthat we create, and I think
there is this pent-up desire andthis need for us to be, in some
ways, the antidote to that,like the ability for us to

(01:13:19):
create real experiences, bringpeople together, have shared
experience.
Sometimes they're individual aswell, but for the most part, a
lot of the stuff that we dotends to be with groups of
people and people having a greattime when they're out on
holiday and they're visitingplaces.
So I think that that's one partof it, and I do think what

(01:13:40):
we've seen and why I believethese things are really kind of
while we're seeing more of them,really kind of while we're
seeing more of them, is, I thinkthat there we're, we're all
feeling the need for connectionand for joy and to be able to
play.
I mean, there's a real sort ofsense of playfulness with all
the stuff that we do.
Um, you know, that's that worldof gaming, but it's allowing us

(01:14:03):
to like play with cocktails andbe in a safe space and not
really worry whether we got themeasure right or wrong.
You know, it's just, it's closeenough and that's great,
because you're learning andyou're learning through play,
and we, our best teachers werepeople who always made the
subject really fun andentertaining, and they weren't
the ones who, like, gave you theeffort on the exam.
So it's, it's.
I think that there's a sense ofthat, that we're looking for

(01:14:27):
places where we can connect,where we can play, we can enjoy
and we can be together or be inthe places that we want.
The role that technology playsin that is a double-edged sword,
right.
I mean, you know, in one wayit's creating this antisocial
situation globally, where we'rescrolling and not really ever in

(01:14:47):
the same place.
I mean, we like to say you know, you're in with, on the couch
with your family, but nobody'swith each other, right, because
everybody's on the phone andthey're watching, half watching
TV and half watching the phone,and, and, and they're on the
they're talking to somebody else, right, and it's just like
nobody's with each other.
So so, while this has been anamazing tool for that

(01:15:15):
information, it's also been kindof one of the things that's
caused this kind of riff that weneed to be mindful of.
From a technology side, though,we all know that we don't go,
just show up at a place likeDublin without a hotel booked
and without your tours, figuredout.
I mean, nobody does that anymoreand I think you know that was
another thing that came out of,you know, the pandemic and COVID
was the acceleration of peopleadopting these sort of ways to

(01:15:37):
use technology to plan, tofigure out what other people are
thinking about, what theyenjoyed.
People do a lot of onlineresearch, you know, and they're
kind of looking at all thedifferent things that they can
do and where they want to go.
And so people, you know, we dohave this experience where we're
enticing people to our projectswell ahead of them ever getting

(01:15:59):
there in real life.
You know, we're using thattechnology to say hey, if you're
coming to Dublin, spend sometime with us at Jameson, we'd
love to see you.
Here's what's going on.
Here's what's on.
Here's how you could pre-book,let's get you ready for your
journey.
Hey, you're going to bearriving tomorrow.
Hey, we're really excited.
Here's your class.
Here's all the information.
You know.
Follow up.
You know.
Hey, you enjoyed it.
You know what I mean.

(01:16:24):
I mean there's all the thingsthat technology allows us to
allow people to pre-book, getinvolved, do all kinds of things
with sales and metrics and allthat stuff, and then also stay
connected, which, for a brand,is really important because
we're building a relationship.
So all that stuff is wonderful.

(01:16:48):
The other role that we're seeingwith tech is, you know, we can
personalize things a lot morethan we used to, and we do that
to some extent.
We worked on a project inScotland where we do a lot of
personalization around whiskeyand people get you know, it's
lots of different combinationsof experiences and people get to
enjoy the whiskey that theywant in any way.
They want it, and you know.
So allowing for thatpersonalization is great, you

(01:17:09):
know, it's wonderful, but wedon't want to do it in a way
that takes a group of fivefriends and turns them into five
individuals.
We still would want to have agreat day out.
You know, if I'm there with myfriends that I've known since I
was 10, we're on a trip throughIreland.
We want to be together.
Since I was 10.

(01:17:29):
We're on a trip through Ireland.
We want to be together, and Ithink that that's the thing that
, as experienced designers andstorytellers, we need to
constantly be remindingourselves of is what is the role
that we play in this?
To try to at least create theenvironments and the places that
allow those things to happen,where technology can be there,
but it can also be put away.
Once we get into an experience,boom, we're done.

(01:17:50):
We're seeing that.
I mean, I'm sure you're seeingit, dan, in the work that you're
you know, the different trendsthat you're you know seeing on
the show and talking to others.
It's definitely something thatwe're seeing as well and if we
do the experience right,honestly, other than taking a
snap of their cocktail they made, they usually don't have it in
their hand.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
You know what I mean, because they're too busy having
fun and experiencing thingstogether, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
I hope I answered the question.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Yeah, very much so.
No, it was quite enlightening,I think, the fact you were at
South by Southwest.
I had seen that you were thereand it's one of the things I was
actually very keen to ask youabout.
I'm a huge fan of South by.
I've been a number of times andobviously it's great for brand
activations.
It's where some of thesetechnology brands got their
start, like Twitter, along with4X, so it's a successful place
to launch brands.

(01:18:39):
There's a lot of pop-ups likeimmersive experiences.
I remember my first time atSouth by walking up by a, a
restaurant that obviously wasjust literally created for the
event.
Cnn had a diner and like that,and that was always one of the
cool things about South by.
So you've got leading edgecreative talent that are there
executing, and then you've alsogot leading edge creative talent

(01:18:59):
attending speaking, likeyourself, and so I did want to
get your take on the topic oftrends and to just better
understand what you're seeing,where you think we're going in
the next three to five years,because clearly you've got
long-term projects.
You shared the one about theRock and Roll Hall of Fame, so
I'm sure you've got longer-termprojects.
You have a clear view on thisand you can see what clients are

(01:19:23):
asking for, based on what theythink are going to be the
experiences of tomorrow.
So I'd love to get your take onthat and I just have a few
other questions that I'm keen toask you, but I certainly want
to get your take on.
What are the trends you'repaying attention to specifically
in the travel sector to try andcultivate these meaningful
connections and the effectivestorytelling?
What are some of the thingsyou're paying attention to that

(01:19:45):
might be interest to ouraudience?

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Yeah, there's quite a few things.
I mean, you know one, theobvious one is AI and what
that's doing, both in terms ofhow we develop projects, but how
we also can personalize things.
We, you know, like I said,we've already been working with
that for some time, some time,and I think we're going to

(01:20:12):
continue to see an evolution ofthat in terms of being able to,
you know, to personalize thingsin a way that we haven't seen or
we're beginning to see.
And, again, I think the onlycaution there is in the service
of creating something that'smeaningful and powerful with
audiences and doesn't lose theheart.
So I think we all have aresponsibility to think about
that.
I think we started thisconversation with the idea of

(01:20:35):
agency and the ability forexperience to be less one-way
and more two-way.
In fact, that's the way wetalked about it at Jameson and
that goes back quite a few years, almost a decade ago.
But we said from the beginningwe want this to be much more of
a two-way conversation.
But even more than that, Ithink there's a sense of being
people looking for play and joy,and I think when we do that in

(01:20:59):
the right way, we give peoplethe permission, we create the
structure of the place, wherethat feels free to do without
feeling judged, then what youknow, that's where you get the
things like team lab in tokyothat's really popular, or things
that we're working on in thespace and, and I think that they
just allow for people to justkind of kind of be themselves

(01:21:23):
and let loose a little bit.
And I think we're going to seemore, not just not just play for
play's sake, you know, not justa photo op for a and I think
we're going to see more, notjust not just play for play sake
, you know, not just a photo opfor a photo op.
I think we're kind of beyondsome of that.
But I think when we think aboutlike real purpose or
interesting purpose-drivenexperiences, or we think about
how we could sort of give peopleopportunities to explore a

(01:21:44):
world, I think we're going tosee a lot more of that.
I think we're going to see alot more of that sort of not
just one-way but two-way or evenparticipatory experiences.
That's only going to grow.
I think we're going to start tosee a lot more.
You know, in addition to that, Iwould say, you know, we have
only begun to really use all ofour senses.

(01:22:07):
You know we talk about the fivesenses but really we have 20 to
30 senses that are actuallywhat we sort of use and we have
in our bodies and sort of doingfull body experiences that
really kind of hit all of thosesenses is something that we as a
I think as an industry arereally now at the point where we

(01:22:27):
understand that and can godeeper and give people, whether
it's auditory or even somethinglike I think we're seeing a lot
in wellness.
You know there's so much goingon where our industry is now
moving into wellness and themerging of those two things
coming together in some reallyinteresting ways.
I saw at South by Southwest oneof the co-founders of Meow Wolf

(01:22:51):
talking about the work thatthey're doing in this space and
it's a completely differentconcept from what's out there
currently and that was reallyinteresting.
So I think you're going tostart to see that find its way
into wellness and so forth.
Yeah, and I think those arelike some of the trends that
we're seeing.
And I think agility, you know, Ithink the days where you had

(01:23:14):
one size fits all and you, youknow there was only a singular
experience or not thinking about, change Like I think about,
like the Rock and Roll Hall ofFame, or I think about the
change in audiences, even in theworld of, like Jameson, how
often it has changed since webuilt it and thinking of these
places as platforms that allowyou to ebb and flow, make the

(01:23:37):
adjustments at a, you know, notat the crazy investment you do
the CapEx, but you find a way inwhich you can be more agile and
more responsive to what'shappening with markets and, you
know, in audiences.
I think that agility is goingto be super important and you
got to bring audiences wherethey're at.
I mean, with rock and roll hallof fame, I love muddy waters.

(01:23:57):
I mean I grew up in chicago, Iam a huge blues fan, I love
foundational, like what theroots of rock and roll.
Right, I love gospel.
You know all of it.
My daughter doesn't know,doesn't even know who I mean.
She does kind of know MuddyWaters because we, but she
doesn't know Big Mama Thorntonand Muddy Waters.
But she knows, you know Tylerthe Crater and she knows

(01:24:20):
Kendrick Lamar and she has agreat understanding of some of
the.
We got to meet our audienceswhere they are and then we could
take them on incrediblejourneys.
So, I think respecting theaudience and understanding that
we can't have it just the way weused to, we need to be thinking
about, sort of again it goesback to that deep understanding
of who the audience is andrespecting them and taking them

(01:24:42):
on a journey that not onlyfulfills their desires and
dreams but exceeds them.
And I think if we do that, thenwe're, then we're really, you
know, we're really doing thework that we're supposed to be
doing in this world.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
So yeah, I guess what stands out to me from what
you've shared there is that,like there's there's lots,
there's a bright future in thisspace and there's lots to look
forward to, and I think that,certainly for yourself, one of
the things I want to get yourguidance on is for those people
looking to come up in this spaceand that can learn from these

(01:25:18):
examples.
And then I want to make sure weleave everyone with a bit more
about where BRC Imagination Artsis headed.
You mentioned you've got quitea few other projects coming up,
but the two of the things Iwanted to ask you, christian,
while we have this time together, is that if you take everything

(01:25:40):
we've discussed so far andclearly, given your extensive
experience, and you thinkspecifically about the travel
industry, is you thinkspecifically about the travel
industry?
One of the things I've foundfrustrating in certain aspects
of travel is that there oftenisn't a lot of innovation,
especially on productdevelopment.
Like you look at certaintouring brands, you look at
certain businesses and it's likeif it works, you just keep
running it, and then you haveother companies like I give the

(01:26:02):
exact example for many of ourlisteners WeRoad I'm a huge
advocate for WeRoad.
Weroad I'm a huge advocate forWeRoad.
Weroad is, like you know, anItalian-based company that came
out of nowhere and is, you know,all of a sudden doing $100
million in sales.
And some of our listeners knowthat I, you know I'm pretty
bullish and think it'll be oneof the fastest travel brands to
reach a billion dollars in sales, and I think it's because
they're doing some of the thingsthat you mentioned about really

(01:26:23):
understanding the audience andreally connecting to the sense
of community and giving peoplereally fantastic, meaningful
experiences, and they becomeraving fans.
So I see companies like thatthat are really getting it right
, and I'm sure there's manybrands that then look at them
and think what are we doing orwhy did we miss this opportunity
?
So now that we've got someonelike you, with your level of

(01:26:44):
expertise, thinking about travelbecause you've worked a lot in
that space what would be some ofthe advice that you might share
, just one or two pieces ofadvice that you would provide to
someone in the travel industryto encourage better innovation,
more deeper, meaningful customerexperiences?
You absolutely hit it on thehead with your comment about the
loneliness epidemic.

(01:27:05):
James Thornton from Intrepidtalks a lot about that and it's
certainly a reason that peopleare taking group travel over
independent travel becausethere's a lot of solo travelers,
a lot of solo female travelers,and they're looking for that
connection and community.
So I see a strong correlationbetween the work that you're
doing with in-destinationexperiences with travel
companies that are beingsuccessful.
But I just wanted to give youthe opportunity to share what

(01:27:26):
you think would be your adviceto those travel brands that are
looking at this going wow, thisis super cool.
Where do I start?
Like, what is it that I shouldbe doing better, differently, to
be more innovative and to havemore meaningful customer
experiences?

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Yeah, I mean, boy, there's so much there.
I think that one of the thingsto think about, Boy, there's so
much there.
I think that one of the thingsto think about.
Sometimes we have bias, right,I think, you know we all do to
some extent, I would imagine,and I think that's true with
even, like, travel brands whoare pretty set Like we know what
we do, we know we do this.
Well, that's great, but I thinkthat there's room for

(01:28:08):
innovation, you know, and havingan innovation mindset is really
important.
Um, I'll give an example.
Um, you know, if, if, ifjameson had kept the way, they
were right in terms of this kindof kind of older irish drink,
they wouldn't have the, theincredible fans that they have
from around the world.

(01:28:29):
And I think by embracing kindof a more contemporary view, not
losing what you did, but sortof fueling your future from your
past in some meaningful way,you can open yourself up to a
lot more audiences.
I see, oftentimes there's a lotof sort of well, you know they

(01:28:49):
wouldn't like this, well, whywouldn't they like this?
I mean, we've got an experiencein Scotland that we've worked on
, where it's a.
It's a whiskey brand, but butguess what Everyone said?
Oh well, women don't go towhiskey experiences.
They don't do it historically,or they a very small percentage.
That project indexes over 50%women under the age of 35.

(01:29:11):
So what's the sort of perception?
I mean?
If you limit yourself inthinking that way, then of
course you're manifesting thereality that you already assume.
But what if, what if you canthink of things in a different
way?
I would say that there's a lotof.

(01:29:31):
I've had to learn this in my ownsort of journey.
I think is to sort of not putyour own personal bias on it and
try to find a way to lookbeyond yourself and really look
at your audiences and also lookfor audiences that you may not
serve.
Now that can give you anopportunity to do a whole new
range of business andopportunities and innovations

(01:29:54):
you haven't thought about, and Ithink you got to leave yourself
open to that.
Because the world, I can tellyou I've been doing this for 28
years and it has changed so muchand I'm excited about the
future.
I am optimistic about thefuture.
I look at the audiences that arecoming up that are going to
have like want to travel and seethe world.

(01:30:14):
There are audiences that arealready there that you can work.
I just think that there's a lotof sometimes there could be too
much around what we thinkpeople do.
I encourage you to get deeperinto the insights, look beyond
just the obvious and go deeper,and I think you're going to find
some things that that youweren't expecting, and that's

(01:30:37):
what has led to somebreakthroughs we've had been
fortunate to have in the workthat we've done is that we look
beyond the veneer, the surface,and we really get in under the
under the hood or you knowdeeper, and I'll tell you that's
where there's some magic, andoften there's opportunity there
that people haven't seen.
So I encourage you to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
Those are great, great pieces of advice.
And the one last tip given yoursuccess and the span of time
you've been in this industry,obviously you've developed a lot
of wisdom over those years.
So, for those listeners outthere and this is Christian I
think you know how this showcertainly started and what I'm
always mindful of whenever Ihave the opportunity to
interview someone like yourself,and I always think about myself

(01:31:20):
listening to podcasts andlearning from other individuals
and always thinking if one dayI'm ever in the position to ask
that person a question.
Here I am having a chance tointerview you now.
The thing I would love for youto be able to share with our
listeners is that any advicefrom your perspective, from your
journey, that you think wouldbe meaningful for someone who is

(01:31:41):
aspiring to either come up inthe immersive travel space or
even someone working in thetravel industry, as you're
kindly giving some suggestionsto make their work more
meaningful.
But really, what advice youmight give someone that's in the
earlier stages of their careeras they look to advance.
And I think one of the thingsmaybe, um, I think one of the
things that a skill that youcertainly have, that is, I

(01:32:03):
believe, certainly quite rare,um is, you know, that real
strong creative talent, and soand some people will say, either
you have it or you don't I'veheard the expression before
where someone's referred tosomeone else and I don't care
for this, I would never use this, but I have heard it they don't
have a creative bone in theirbody, and I've heard that spoken

(01:32:24):
about marketers that just forwhatever reason, someone just
doesn't think they have what ittakes, and maybe they've missed,
maybe it's they weren't briefedproperly, maybe they, you know.
So I always want to give peoplemore than enough chance to prove
themselves.
So so that's, I guess, why I'mframing it that way because you
have this unique skillset, andwhen I see pictures of you on
the website and how you've builtthis, you know how this company

(01:32:46):
has been built over the timethat you've been there it's
quite amazing that the number ofthings you've been involved in
so and I know you speak on stageI know people are like
gravitate to you, and so I meanthis is where I've got the
opportunity.
So I really want to ask youthis question, christian, like
what advice would you give tothe listeners out there that
would, you know, want to be assuccessful as someone like you

(01:33:06):
one day.

Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
Well, I think it starts with that idea of just
being endlessly curious.
You're a lifelong learner, ifyou, and I know that, even in
the early part of your career,because I teach I've taught at
Art Center, I've taughtdifferent places and I always
say, like, the key thing if youwant to be successful here is to

(01:33:29):
not pigeonhole yourself intoone thing.
But you know, really this istruly a Renaissance sort of um,
the sort of that, the idea ofthat Renaissance person or
somebody who's like I think IDEOdescribed as like a T, you know
, somebody who's got like astrong foundation but they're
very interested in lots ofthings.
I think to be successful inthis industry you have to be

(01:33:52):
that Like you can have a strongroot in something.
But I would say you knownarrative storytelling and
illustration and design and allof those things right, and how
you tell stories.

(01:34:14):
But what's really allowed me and, I think, others at BRC to
really excel is that, you know,when I first started in the
industry, I got to work withHarrison Buzz Price, who was the
economic advisor to Walt Disney, and Buzz was the person who
told him where to put Disneyland.
And then eventually, hey, youshould buy this property down in

(01:34:36):
Orlando when Orlando wasn'teven a thing, and listening to
Buzz talk about the economics ofattractions in the travel and
tourism industry was anunbelievable masterclass in
understanding how these projectsfinancially work.
What is the feasibility?
I was just as interested in thenumbers as I am in the design,

(01:35:00):
and the same thing onstorytelling.
I didn't go to school forfilmmaking but Bob was a
filmmaker, our founder, and hetaught us how to create films
and to direct and to think aboutthat and that's wonderful.
Again, it's not that everyonehas that kind of person next to
you, but you can.
You should get really wide andall these things because I think

(01:35:22):
if you can learn from economicsto design and storytelling and
and delivery and operations,I've learned so much from
incredible hospitality leaders.
I mean, whether it's sittingdown and having a conversation
with the training team at theRitz-Carlton or it's working
with wonderful people like Lauraand others who really

(01:35:45):
understand their business andhow hospitality is everything.
How you treat people like thisindustry is not one thing.
It is a combination ofconnected things that all
influence each other and that'swhy our symbol of BRC is a
triangle.
A triangle is like thestrongest form in engineering,

(01:36:06):
but it's a combination ofbusiness acumen and financial
understanding, great sort ofhospitality and operations, and
understanding that.
And then the base of it is thatwonderful deep storytelling and
design that we have thatconnects both of those worlds.
And I think that that is like,in order to really do this is to

(01:36:30):
is to get routed.
I mean, I remember it duringCOVID, I went back to school and
was taking classes at Whartonbecause I wanted to know about
data and analytics, you know,and it wasn't because I was a
great at math, but I knew thatit sometimes go after the thing
that you're most afraid of and Itell you, it opens you up and
it actually keeps you, like,really engaged.

(01:36:52):
So I would say it's great to godeep on something and have that
sort of strong pillar, but it'salso equally important to go
wide and get to know as muchabout this industry as you
possibly can.
Ask every question you can, anddon't be afraid to ask it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
That's awesome.
That's all great advice,christian, and I'm sure that's
resonating with a lot of ourlisteners, even with me.
I mean, obviously, intellectualcuriosity is paramount.
I always look for that in a newhire.
You know, there's that Googleview of hiring someone that you
would like to have aconversation with at a layover
in an airport, and clearly thoseare people and there's a lot to

(01:37:32):
be said for that, because thisis someone that you can actually
have a more profoundconversation with and therefore
you can talk about work you canlike, and so I like the fact you
point out.
Well, I just wanted tounderscore what you said about
going after what you fear andlike, because there's this
question about just focusing onyour strengths, or do you spend
time on your weaknesses, and Ithink there's actually something
to be said for the fact thatyou know recognizing where

(01:37:53):
there's opportunities to developand grow and where you maybe
don't have a strength butdoesn't necessarily become a
strength, but it can at least bean area that you are, you learn
more about so that you are morefamiliar and like.
So, anyway, that's reallyfantastic advice, christian.
Clearly, you have so much goingon and so much running through
your mind.
I want to make sure that wefinish off by letting everybody

(01:38:15):
know where they can find outabout some of the new projects
you have coming up that otherpeople might be excited to
explore, or some of the thingsyou guys are working on, and
also where they can find moreinformation about BRC.
I should have mentioned thewebsite at the beginning, but
obviously you can mention thatnow, but there might be other

(01:38:35):
ways for people to follow alongon the journey.
But yeah, and obviously I'm sothankful you've made time for
this, but tell everyone wherethey can find more information
about you and BRC, imaginationArts, and to connect with you
and the team.
What's coming up next?

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
Yeah, I know We'd love to have you follow us and
kind of stay in tune.
We're pretty active on LinkedInI think everybody is these days
but you can find BRCImagination Arts on LinkedIn or
myself.
Please reach out and connect.
I'm happy to have those reachouts.
It'd be wonderful.
We're always on Instagramsharing what we're up to.
It's just our other platformthat we're out on social.

(01:39:10):
And of course, we have newsthat hits on some of the major
news channels in the industry.
We try to stay active on that.
We have a podcast called Mastersof Storytelling.
We love this podcast, but ifyou want to hear about from
other storytellers, that's agreat platform.
You can find that in all theplaces that good podcasts come
from.
In addition, we don't want totake away from travel trends,

(01:39:32):
but if you're into storytelling,that's a really good one.
And the other thing iswwwbrcwebcom.
That tells you where we startedin the 80s and we really were.
But that's our website andactually we do keep that up to
date and we've got a couple ofreally exciting project openings
that will be coming in the nexttwo months, so we'll be sharing

(01:39:53):
those soon.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
That's fantastic, christian.
Well, it's been a delightfulconversation.
This exceeded my expectations.
I know why Laura loves you somuch, and the team at Pernod
Ricard as well.
I've thoroughly enjoyed theopportunity to get to know you
leading up to this interviewthat we had the chance to do
today, but so I wanted to saythank you so much for making the
time, and I certainly will befollowing all of your

(01:40:14):
developments.
I look forward to meeting youin person in the near future at
some point, and I'm definitelygoing to put my list together of
each of the venues that I wantto check out, and I'm definitely
going to Jameson.
So, no, thank you for all yourguidance, thank you for your
advice and, uh, thank you formaking the most of this time
that we had together.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
So thank you so much, christian.
Uh, you're welcome.
Thank you very much.
I enjoyed it very much, thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
Thanks so much for joining us on the latest episode
of travel trends.
I really hope you enjoyed thisvery first deep dive into the
world of in destinationexperiences sponsored by our
friends over at Pernod Ricard.
Obviously, christian Latchellis such an impressive individual
.
I know exactly why Zach said Ilove this interview and I had no

(01:40:59):
idea companies like thisexisted.
Brc Imagination Arts it's aremarkable company and a journey
that he's had with them andsome of the projects they're
working on I'm sure many of ourlisteners you've experienced
them.
You're familiar with thembecause it is an extraordinary
collection and it's amazing tosee someone operating at that
height of creativity to be ableto introduce those new
in-destination experiences, withmany more to come on a global

(01:41:19):
scale.
Most popular guests of all timefrom Pernod Ricard to discuss
the latest in their brand homeevolution and some of the new
developments they have plannedfor 2026 and beyond.
And then we're going to finishthis three-part special series
with Joe Pine, the legendaryauthor of the Experience Economy

(01:41:42):
, as well as Jake Halpert, whoruns the Transformational Travel
Council.
So an amazing three-part seriesto look forward to.
Make sure you are subscribed onthe streaming platform of your
choice to be notified when newepisodes go live and, of course,
we post clips and highlights onall our social channels YouTube
, linkedin and Instagram if youwant to see clips of any of
these guests, includingChristian, from today.

(01:42:02):
And then don't forget, we havelaunched our AI Summit for
October 28th and 29th Early.
We have launched our AI summitfor October 28th and 29th Early.
Bird tickets are still availableand we are working away on
season six of Travel Trendsalready, even though we're going
to take a brief break duringJuly and into August when we put
out a few event spotlights andstartup spotlights, and then

(01:42:23):
we'll be back in September withseason six.
And if you have any suggestionsfor us with guests or topics
you want us to cover, feel freeto send me an email.
Dan at travel trends podcast,thanks again for joining us for
today's conversation and we lookforward to having you next week
for our interview with Laurafrom Pernod Ricard.
Thanks again and safe travels.

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