Crafting Luxury River Experiences with Scenic

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Funny enough, in the early early days Zenith got into
the river cruise space bychartering our competitors and
when he chartered them the guestsaid you know what I love the
river cruise experience, but Iwould have loved to have had an
outdoor balcony like I had whenI was on Holland America to
Alaska when I did the land tourprograms in Western Canada.

(00:23):
And so Glenn looked around andthere were no ships that had an
outdoor private balcony backthen.
So that's when he decided tobuild his own ships.
So we were the first in themarket to build an outdoor
private balcony 135 meter longship and introduced it into the
marketplace.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hello everyone and welcome to the latest episode of
Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and I'm excited to
continue our deep dive into theworld of river cruises brought
to us in partnership by ourfriends at Captio.
That's K-A-P-T-I-O.
We had Ragnar, the founder ofCaptio, join us for episode one,
where we talked about thegrowth of this category, and
then we had Steve Spivak fromTauk join us for episode two to

(01:07):
talk about how Tauk has enteredthe River Cruise space.
Of course, they are in touringas well, and they're a key
partner of Captio and one of themain reasons why Captio has
expanded into the River Cruisespace.
Now, today we're going to befeaturing Lisa McCaskill, who is
the Vice President of Sales andMarketing for Scenic Canada,
and there was a couple ofreasons I wanted to have Lisa as

(01:29):
part of this series.
One reason is that we hadScenic as part of our Ocean
Cruise series last year inSeason 4.
And as we prepared this series,we put back-to-back our Guided
Touring series and then ourRiver Cruise series, of which
Scenic operates in all three,and so I wanted to get their
perspective on river cruisingand how it relates to the other
categories.

(01:49):
And the second reason I wantedto have Lisa on is because we
had Ben Hall from AT Kingsjoining us from Australia in our
guided touring series and Iwanted to have a Canadian
representative to highlight someof the unique aspects of the
Canadian market, given ourglobal podcast.
I wanted to highlight some ofthe unique aspects of the
Canadian market, given ourglobal podcast.
I wanted to highlight some ofthe commonalities between the
English language source markets,and one of the things that

(02:11):
you'll hear us talk about is howmany of the marketing
techniques, including the use ofmorning shows, which is a big
reason of how scenic got to thescale they are today in
Australia, how that applied toCanada and other markets as well
.
So I wanted to highlight someof the commonalities and bring
together a few of the biggestindustry players in the river

(02:32):
cruise space, and next weekwe're going to be hearing from
Pamela Avalon, so stay tuned forthat as well.
Now, before we bring Lisa in theconversation, I just wanted to
recognize the team at Captio forsponsoring this series.
Many of our listeners are inthis space.
So if you're looking for themost modern travel technology
solution that will help yousimplify selling and operating
multi-day travel experiences,whether it be from river cruise

(02:55):
cabins to train cars.
Then you have to connect withthe team at Captio.
Their whole focus istransforming how tour operators
design, sell and manage thesecomplex multi-day travel
experiences, and they offer themost unified, scalable platform
that will really empower yourtravel brand to streamline
operations, improve bookings andcustomer service.
So reach out to them for moredetails.

(03:17):
And, lastly, I just wanted toremind everyone that we have
officially announced our AISummit for 2025, which is
happening October 28th and 29th.
Virtually, you can join fromanywhere in the world.
You can pre-register now atTravelTrendsPodcastcom.
We have just announced anamazing lineup of incredible
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(03:38):
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(03:58):
And then, of course, we postclips and highlights from all
these conversations, includingtoday's with Lisa, on our social
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Instagram at Travel TrendsPodcast, we'll be right back.
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Thanks again for your continuedsupport and now back to the
show.
Now let's bring Lisa into theconversation and continue our
deep dive into the world ofriver cruises and understand
everything that's happening overat Scenic.
Lisa, it's great to have you onthe show.
Thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Thank you so much for having us, dan, it's really
great.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
For sure.
I'm thrilled to have Scenicpart of our river cruise series
and I want everyone to learn alittle bit more about the
company and certainly your role.
Why don't we start there?
So tell everyone a little bitabout your role at Scenic and
maybe a quick overview of thecompany.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yep, absolutely.
So.
Basically, at the end of theday, I'm the market leader for
Canada for Scenic Group Canadadivision Focus on the inbound
part of the business as well asthe outbound business
reservations sales team, but mymain focus is truly on sales and
marketing and selling ourproducts to Canadians.
The company itself isapproaching almost 40 years in

(07:15):
business, if you can believe it.
We're Australian founded andGlenn Maroney a private owner
from the very start, and hestarted his business in the
touring business and thenexpanded into river cruising in
2008 when he decided to buildhis own river cruise ships.
And from that we've expanded.
And when he started buildingthose river cruise ships, he

(07:38):
kind of identified thatAustralia couldn't be the only
market to fill them, so hence heopened up offices in other
parts of the world to become aglobal, international company.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, that's great.
I appreciate that context andfor all of our listeners, as we
had our multi-day tour seriesand now our river cruise series,
I was keen to have Scenic aspart of the conversation for
exactly the reason that Lisajust mentioned, which is that
you were in the tour space.
You've expanded into rivercruise, you have ocean as well,
and today obviously, we're goingto focus on river.
But the other reason I was keento have Lisa on this is because

(08:09):
you heard from Ben Hall, whoruns 80 Kings in Australia, and,
given the global nature of ourshow, I actually thought it was
an ideal opportunity to take anAustralian company with a
Canadian office and a Canadianperspective and for you, of
course, lisa, to be able toshare everything about Scenic
for our global audience, butspecifically some interesting
things about the Canadian marketas well that I know will
interest our second largestaudience.

(08:30):
And so, when it comes to thisindustry, tell us a little bit
about how you actually got intothe cruise industry.
I know you've got an impressivebackground outside of this
industry, but tell us a bitabout what brought you into
tourism and, specifically, theopportunity with Scenic.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Well, just a funny side note there.
I didn't realize yet that youhad interviewed Ben Hall.
So Ben Hall and I trainedtogether with Contiki in Europe
in 1995 and have been lifelongfriends since then.
So I would say, if we werereally to look at my beginnings,
that came from tourism and camefrom my time in Contiki and

(09:07):
really started the foundation ofthe groundwork.
And then when I came back toCanada I joined Rocky
Mountaineer and at that point intime Scenic was my client at
Rocky and a few years almost 10years with my time at Rocky,
Scenic kind of stole me andbrought me over.
And that was the touring sideto start with and then, as I've

(09:28):
described, with the organization, we went into the river
cruising and the cruising side.
So that's kind of the evolutionof how that happened.
But I think what I love aboutthe cruising side of the
business is just how dynamic itis and innovative and it's ever
changing and that's reallywhat's kept me going and kept me
at the organization too well,it's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
You mentioned rocky mountaineer, because many
travelers are certainly familiarwith the idea of doing a rocky
mountaineer trip and youobviously know this from your
time there and then doing analaskan cruise and that
combination of two trips andit's it's very much the spirit
of how we created these two deepdives back to back, because so
many travelers are doing amulti-day tour and they're doing
a river cruise and so manycompanies operate in both spaces

(10:12):
, and Scenic being one of those,tauch being another that people
have heard from on this seriesand Globus, of course, with
Avalon, that they've heard fromin the series as well.
So this is where having Scenicpart of the conversation was
really important to me, but alsoyour background, the fact that
you understand what consumersare looking for when they're
looking for that rail journey,the ocean cruise.
But when it comes to river, Iwanted to make sure, as part of

(10:35):
this series, that we're speakingto, whether it's travel agents
or even travelers that are newto river cruising, and so, for
those people that have not beenon a river cruise but are
intrigued by the concept, howwould you describe the
experience?

Speaker 1 (10:48):
So I describe it as a relaxed and intimate way to
explore a region.
It's especially great fortravelers who are looking for a
cultural immersion without thehassle of packing and unpacking.
You know, touring is great, butobviously you're moving into a
different hotel every few nights.
So, being on the river cruise,you unpack once, enjoy the

(11:10):
journey and don't pack againtill the end.
And, unlike ocean cruising,river cruising is smaller Often
there's fewer than 200 guests inparticular and it creates a
more personal, low-key kind ofatmosphere and a very intimate
experience.
And it's excellent for peoplethat might have a little bit of

(11:30):
seasickness if they were to goon an ocean cruise, because it's
such a flat-level riverexperience and no big waves that
people can worry about.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
And so I'm glad you mentioned that because, as some
of our listeners may have heard,I had some apprehensions
initially because, about beingon the water, I'm not an ocean
cruiser.
I've taken two river cruisesand not had any issue whatsoever
, and so I'm almost tempted toocean now.
But I love the experience of ariver cruise.
But the one thing I definitelyam not familiar with from the

(12:01):
outside, looking in.
I certainly have done quite abit of research on your website
and talking to colleagues inanticipation of our interview
today to talk about Scenic, andone of the things I always like
to get into is what sets Scenicapart.
And obviously you have Scenic,you have Emerald and I know you
guys are luxury and five stars,so give everyone a bit of an
overview of how Scenicdifferentiates itself in the

(12:21):
marketplace.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah.
So from a Scenic point of viewwe're an all-inclusive
ultra-luxury experience and froman emerald point of view, we're
an inclusive, modern luxuryexperience.
So, for example, I guess firstit comes down to our ships and
our spaceships and the designsof those.
So we touched on just earlierabout being an intimate

(12:43):
experience.
For scenic, for example,there's only 163 guests maximum
on board, whereas with Emeraldit's 180 guests on board.
Culinary experience scenic hasmultiple dining options.
On board ship Emerald Cruiseskind of has its main one dining
area and then excursions andtour options.

(13:06):
Both have excursions and touroptions and experiences to
choose from.
On the scenic side of things,everything is fully
all-inclusive and Emerald allowsyou to really customize and
choose what you would like to doon your journey.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Just for context, since you mentioned the business
started in touring, just remindeveryone when scenic got into
the river cruise space.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
So, funny enough, in the earlyearly days, scenic got into the
river cruise space by charteringour competitors because it was
identified to Glenn at that timethat you know, river cruising
was kind of the thing that wasstarting to come on the radar.
You know, touring had alwaysbeen there and primarily our

(13:48):
guests were Australian at thattime and they wanted to continue
to travel with scenic.
But what was next and what wasthe next destination?
And his product manager at thetime highlighted river cruising.
So what he did is he charteredships.
And when he chartered them theguest said you know what I love
the river cruise experience, butI would have loved to have had

(14:08):
an outdoor balcony, like I hadwhen I was on Holland America to
Alaska, when I did the landtour programs in Western Canada.
And so Glenn looked around andthere were no ships that had an
outdoor private balcony backthen.
So that's when he decided tobuild his own ships.
So we were the first in themarket to build an outdoor
private balcony 135 meter longship and introduced it into the

(14:33):
marketplace.
And that was in 2008,.
From a scenic point of view andagain taking feedback from our
guests, they said you know whatI love the balcony, but I went
in April or I went in Octoberand you know it was a bit cold
and a bit rainy, and so I didn'tget the full experience of it.
So then, a few years after that, we decided to enclose the

(14:53):
balcony and turn it into ascenic sun lounge.
So at a touch of a button, youknow, your window can go up and
down, so that then you can havethe balcony experience year
round.
So when we introduced EmeraldCruises in 2014, we started off
obviously having an enclosedbalcony experience from the very
beginning.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Right, and now I know you operate primarily in Europe
, but you also have SoutheastAsia covered, with Cambodia and
Vietnam, and I want to hear abit about that because that's
the highest on my list of theregions I want to explore by
river.
I've spent quite a bit of timein that region traveling by land
and I definitely need toexperience it from the river.
But let's talk a little bitabout Europe first, since
obviously that's where the newships you know, obviously the

(15:33):
chartering, as you mentioned andthe new ships were introduced.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe ships that you operate in
Europe and the main rivers andwaterways that you focus your
itineraries on.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yes, yes, so the bulk of really the capacity in the
ship experience is on the Rhine,mine and Danube rivers and that
really is partially becausethere are still a number of
first-time river cruisers outthere and they truly like to be
introduced to that main rivercruise experience, primarily

(16:06):
Amsterdam to Budapest andcovering all that in destination
.
So that's where a majority ofour inventory in the ships are.
But we also have ships on thescenic side in Bordeaux, we have
a ship in the south of Franceand we also have a ship on the
Seine and then on the Emeraldexperience we also have a ship
in the south of France and wealso have a ship on the Seine

(16:26):
and then on the EmeraldExperience we also have a ship
in the south of France.
And then both brands again havekind of one of my favorite
European destinations and that'sPortugal.
It really is an undiscoveredkind of destination that people
are starting to find and we findour Portugal Douro River Cruise

(16:47):
experiences and ships book outimmediately.
You know you need to book thoseat least 18 months to a year in
advance Because, again, asmaller ship, more intimate
experience and only one ship foreach brand in that destination,
so many of our loyalty.
Guests will take that as one oftheir next destinations.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that
because Portugal has been on theup and coming for many years.
It seems like people are stilljust discovering Portugal.
It's still an affordabledestination.
It's like one of the topEuropean destinations.
It amazes me because it's abeautiful part of Europe but
given that it's kind of tuckedaway on the coast on the other
side of Spain and most peoplefocus on Central Europe, less

(17:27):
people get there.
So it's clear why that happens.
But it's interesting, as youpoint out, that it's still an
emerging destination, despitethe fact that being such a
well-developed tourismdestination, we'll be right back
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And now back to the show.
Don't think they would want totake an ocean cruise and I'd put
myself in that category.
And so I actually partly.
I wanted to do that series forthat exact reason, so I could
get a better understanding ofthe industry River cruising I
have a much better appreciationfor having worked in that space
and traveled in that space.
But I'm sure there's manylisteners out there that are
first looking at scenic andtrying to figure out what river,

(21:18):
what ship.
And the one thing I think isbeautiful about river cruising
is that the companies that areactive in this space really
match the ship to thedestination, the decor, the
cuisine.
So tell us, if someone'slooking at your website for the
first time and everyone can bechecking out Scenic, depending
where you are in the worldCanadians will be scenicca, I
know it's sceniceu, but Googlesearch Scenic.

(21:39):
You'll find the website uh,scenic river cruises.
What would you say to thosepeople who are looking at your
business for the first time,trying to figure out what river
should I go on, where should Igo first?
What ship should I take?

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah.
So, um, I would say to you thatAmsterdam to Budapest itinerary
, which is 14 nights in durationfor either brand, is our most
popular, and I would suggest itas the first because it it gives
you that broad range of anumber of different countries
that you're traveling to anddestinations on the river.

(22:12):
It takes it out a bit more of arelaxed pace for people to kind
of get into the groove and ithighlights, perhaps,
destinations that you would wantto go back to, and two weeks is
a really great length of time.
It's not too short, you know,rushing everything within just
seven, eight days, but not toolong that you feel like, oh, is
this going to keep going on?

(22:33):
So, from a destination point ofview, I think Amsterdam to
Budapest would be a great placefor people to start.
If we look at the actualproduct itself, if we start with
an Emerald River Cruiseexperience, as I was mentioning
before, you know, maximum 180guests on board, so that smaller
, more intimate ship experienceYou've got from an Emerald point

(22:58):
of view, you can customize yourprogram a little bit more.
So, for example, it's inclusive, but it's not a fully
all-inclusive experience.
So, just to give you an example, you have walking tours that
are included each day.
But if you wanted to deep diveinto more of our culture
experiences, then they're calledDiscover Mores and you pay an

(23:19):
additional amount to do that.
Discover Mores and you pay anadditional amount to do that.
People like that becauseperhaps they've been to Vienna
before and they don't need to dothe included coach tour that
you always feel you have to dobecause you've already paid for
it.
So it allows them to customizeand do things a little
differently.
Both brands have bicycles ontour that guests can take them

(23:40):
at any time.
Brands have bicycles on tourthat guests can take them at any
time.
There's also organized biketours themselves and the walking
tours and a culinary experiencethat is matching what you're
going through on the rivers inthe destination.
So from a food point of view aswell as from a wine point of
view, for example, that guestscan experience, and on emerald

(24:01):
you have wine, beer and softdrink.
That's included at lunch anddinner.
But if you'd like to have acocktail in the evening, you
know you pay additional for thatand people like that if perhaps
they're not big drinkers andthey go.
You know what.
I only need to have a glass ofwine with my meal and I think
one of the most key things aswell from Scenic and Emerald's

(24:26):
point of view being inclusive isthat all gratuities are
included and that's not just forthe staff that's on ship,
that's also for all the touringguides and the drivers and
everything for your wholepackage together.
When we look at it from a scenicpoint of view, this is a fully
all-inclusive experience.
So Canadians resonate very wellwith that.

(24:47):
They get all-inclusive and itwas funny it was only in I think
it was 2010 from a scenic pointof view for River, where we
finally made it fullyall-inclusive from a beverage
point of view and all of thatand sales from Canada increased
dramatically and I think it'sbecause they guess understanding

(25:08):
Canadian when they go to aresort that's all-inclusive or
what that means.
It means they don't have toconstantly put their hand in
their pocket.
You know they can put thecredit card away.
We don't ask for your creditcard when you book at the front
desk or, sorry, when you boardat the front desk.
So it has that feel every.
So that means every beveragethat you decide to have on board

(25:29):
.
We have butler service, we havea few different culinary
experiences that are availableto the guests and then all of
your excursions and all yoursightseeing is also included as
well.
So that's kind of a overview, Iguess, of the two different
brands and the river cruiseexperience in Europe.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, I think one thing that stood out to me was
the highlighting a two-weekitinerary, which I'm sure some
people listening to this arelike I need two weeks.
And the answer.
I'm going to just add to thisbecause both the river cruises
we took were one week and everytime but both times I should say
you just leave you wanting moreand I was so envious of the
people that were going on foranother week or adding it to
another itinerary.

(26:08):
So to your point about havingtwo weeks that is ideal.
That is like the right amountof time to really be able to
unpack, unwind, leave everythingat home and actually have a
proper vacation.
I think most people prefer tohave two weeks, if they can do
so.
So that's definitely a goodsuggestion, because I for sure
know that people would bemissing out if they only just

(26:29):
had a week.
But obviously you offer shorteritineraries as well, but that's
certainly an ideal place tostart.
The other thing you mentioned anumber of the differentiators,
and I'm glad that you did,because I've worked really
closely with Global Journeysover the past year and we've
hired up their team and they alllisten to the show and they've
become big fans of Travel Trends, which I greatly appreciate,
but they also have suggestionsfor questions when I'm seeing
them in the office and for themand many other travel agents

(26:52):
listening to this, I know Scenicis very connected to the travel
agent community.
You've put a lot of time andinvestment there and I know you
have trained that team and anycommunity.
You've put a lot of time andinvestment there and I know you
have trained that team, and anytravel agency that's listening
to this knows scenic and yourteam has likely done training.
But there may be someindependent agents that are
listening to this and that's whyI want to make sure I bring
everyone on the journey, to makesure that I'm asking the
questions of you today, lisa,that they're thinking that they

(27:15):
want to know, based on how theyneed to be able to answer
questions for their guests.
And so the question I wanted toask you is about when you think
about luxury.
One of the things that certainlygoes with that is
personalization, and so whentravel agents are trusting
scenic to be able to send theirguests on a scenic experience
and they're very much into thefive star and even, as you

(27:35):
described it, sort of theintimate experience of being on
a luxury ship how does scenicultimately deliver on that?
And specifically, I guess whatI'm asking is that level of
personalization.
How much personalization canyou achieve?
Obviously you've got a smallerstaff to guest ratio, so that's
very helpful, but take usthrough some of those examples
of how you can actuallypersonalize a guest experience
and, I guess, appeal todifferent types of travelers.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, so we tend to believe that we have something
for every personality.
So whether it's the adventureand doing the bike tours or the
hiking tours, so we have eitherbrand, whether it's an inclusive
or discover more on.
Emerald Cruises has theopportunity for a more active
experience on board, so thatkind of looks after the

(28:20):
adventurer and then you know thefoodie, with the multiple
dining venues on board, scenic,as well as going through the
different destinations France,portugal it really gets to
experience from a foodie pointof view, music, you know
absolutely you're travelingthrough Vienna and beautiful

(28:44):
classical music, areas of thatImmersive walking.
Everything also has a culturalkind of angle to it and, most
importantly, we try to be veryauthentic and bring some
localization into it.
We try to be very authentic andbring some localization into it
, so everything from.

(29:08):
For example, one of theDiscovering Plus experiences
that's included with EmeraldCruises is a hosted coffee and
cake with a local family, so youkind of get to meet some of the
locals, both brands.
We bring local entertainers onboard ship during the journey so
that guests can can get thatauthentic flavor and and, as we
all know, in the travel industrythat's what people are looking

(29:31):
for these days.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
The one thing that certainly stood out to me when
I'm looking at the suites I mean, they're certainly luxurious
and that obviously is key to theexperience but some of the
other additional features thatis unique to scenic.
One of them is this is thissalt therapy lounge, which
really appeals to me.
Tell me a bit more about that,because that's certainly
something I'd like to experiencethe next time I'm on a river
cruise, specifically with Scenic.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, so I didn't realize it either until we
introduced it, but the remedythat comes from the salt therapy
is to help with relaxation.
It's also help with respiratory.
So we introduced it into ourships a number of years ago and

(30:12):
have tried to highlight toguests it's a super place to go
to try and get over jet lag.
So at the beginning of your, ofyour journey, and you know, you
wear your clothes and your ropeand everything and you just
really for about 15-20 minutes,lie in the salt therapy lounge,
which is available for allguests to enjoy on scenic and

(30:33):
and you know, meditate, bring inthe, the smells and just the,
the overall relaxation andcalming of your respiratory
system.
And it's amazing how you comeout of that kind of feeling a
little perky, that you feel thatyou've had a bit of a kick in

(30:53):
yourself to keep going and getover that jet lag and go on to
the next destination.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, I know, and then sit at the top of the ship
and be able to watch the worldgo by and then decide what
you're going to have for dinner.
Because I know one of the bigfeatures too is all the
different dining options youhave.
You're already speaking aboutsome of the, I guess, the free
choice options that certainlyappeal to different types of
travelers active, moderate,relaxed and that's something I
know that comes up a lot, thatcertain people are more active

(31:19):
and want to be active, and othertravelers my aunt being an
example was concerned that oneof these river cruise
itineraries was going to be tooactive and she wasn't going to
be up for it.
So it's it's.
It's so hard to try and cater toeveryone.
That's why I wanted to ask youthat question.
But on the cuisine side, tellus a little bit more about that,
because the dining optionsobviously are quite varied.
So it's not as if they're goingto a buffet dinner, um, but

(31:41):
tell us a little bit more aboutthe, the dining experiences on
board and how that can bepersonalized, because the one
thing I was amazed when I was onmy river cruise was that there
was like three or four differenttypes of bacon.
I've never been, it's just likeyou know there's depending on
how you like your bacon prepared, for example.
So, um, and it pleasedeverybody, so everyone had their
choice.
But, yeah, tell us a littledining experience.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, really from a scenic point of view.
So our main dining room iscalled Crystal Dining and that
does fit all guests on board atthe same time if they all choose
to eat at the same time andthere's no set.
You know that you have to comeat this time period for your
reservation, like there is onlarge ocean cruise lines.

(32:22):
You know there's a time periodthat you show up for your dining
, and so for breakfast and forlunch there is the buffet option
, because people kind of likethat sometimes because they want
to.
You know kind of go and pickwhat they'd like and have a
quick breakfast and then getgoing.
But there is always a la carteoptions as well for both

(32:42):
breakfast and lunch, and then inthe evening it is a full a la
carte dinner and introduced bythe chef each evening to
recognize the destinations thatwe're traveling through and then
pair wines with that as well.
So that's the main dining room,but in addition to that we have
a dining venue calledPortobello's on our main

(33:03):
Rhine-Main and Danube RiverCruise ships and this is kind of
an intimate for only 32 guestsand it has an Italian theme
tasting menu and all guests areinvited to that at least once
during their journey on boardship.
So it gives a bit of a breakfrom main crystal dining and

(33:23):
makes all the guests feel alittle bit special.
And then for our guests thatare on our top deck, in our
larger suites, we have Table LeRive, which is a degustation
experience.
Only 10 guests each evening atTable Le Rive and this is a
special chef's tasting menu andpaired with the sommelier and

(33:45):
different wines.
So that's multiple from kind ofthat kind of dining experience
in the evening.
But one of the really, reallypopular things that guests
didn't really realize they weremissing until we added it to our
ships, and that is the RiverCafe.
So the River Cafe is open inthe morning for kind of like a

(34:08):
light breakfast for guests whoare early risers, so they're
maybe still getting over jet lagor they usually get up at 6am
in the morning and want to havebreakfast.
So there's pastries and there's, you know, scrambled eggs and a
lighter fare fruit, healthysmoothies, coffee, tea, all of
that.
And then from then on untilevening, dinner service, river

(34:32):
Cafe has got a lighter fare andsandwiches and pasta of the day
and salads and pastries andgelato, salads and pastries and
gelato.
So you will find that.
You know, if you're having justa little peckish experience and
you want a little somethingduring the day I have to say I
love the gelato.
I seem to have one every daywhile I'm on board River Cafe is

(34:52):
perfect to go to.
The other thing we'll do withyou on River Cafe is that we'll
pack you a little picnic if youwanted to go off on your own
Again appeals to the adventurer,the guests that don't want to
be part of a kind of guidedgroup experience Take our
bicycles.
We'll pack you a picnic lunchfrom River Cafe and go in and

(35:13):
enjoy your afternoon.
So it really is a true varietyfor guests to enjoy on board.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, I was thinking when you mentioned the bike
tours, because that's one of thethings that the ships move so
slowly down the river that youcan actually bike and meet up
with the ship a little laterdown the river, which was one of
the things that surprised me.
As we talk about the guestexperience, one of the things
I'd certainly like to highlightto our listeners.
For those, if you were to kindof close your eyes and reopen
them again and you're now on ascenic ship, take us a little
bit through the onboardexperience.

(35:40):
I know we've discussed thedining and the spas and the
rooms, but what I'm specificallyasking here is about the
profile of the guests and sortof what the onboard experience
is like, so that someone that isconsidering a scenic trip,
whether it be from Australia orCanada or the US or different
age groups or different travelertypes, take us through the

(36:03):
types of people you might meeton a scenic and really kind of.
I guess what I'm trying to getto is you know who is scenic,
for I know it's for a wideaudience but, yeah, take us
through what the experiencelooks like, the type of people
you might meet on a scenic shipand who really I guess you're
marketing to with these.
You know, amazing river cruiseexperiences.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Well, so I would say to you and I know I'm a little
bit biased, but I would say toyou that one of the key
differentiators between Scenicof Scenic and Emerald Cruises
compared to the other companiesout there is the fact that we do
have guests from all over theworld.
So the fact that we'reAustralian founded and then we

(36:41):
opened our global offices afterthat, you do find on board that
you've got some Aussies, you'vegot some Brits, you've got some
Canadians and you have someAmericans, and you know, from a
Canadian point of view, I thinkthat's really appreciated more
than ever.
And just having the differenttype of experience to have with

(37:02):
different travelers from aroundthe world, so that is something
very key and very unique.
I would say to both Scenic andEmerald the lounge area is the
kind of heart of everything onship, no matter which brand that
you're traveling on, and thisis where people gather for
beverages or they sit and watchthe world go by and we have

(37:24):
different activities um talks bythe cruise director, whether
that's history or about thesightseeing that you're seeing
along the way.
This is where we bring in ourlocal entertainment or our local
expert also to give some sometalks and things and port talks
every evening to kind of talk toyou about, um, what is coming
up in the next days ahead tomake you prepared and what

(37:46):
you're going to experience thenext day.
And, of course, in the evening,the opportunity with some music
and disco or trivia or orwhatever that means from your
question on on who, demographicwise, you know, we do find that
our guests are 60, 65 plus onboth brands, but, as I said,

(38:07):
there is that variety ofexcursions so that you can have
any kind of traveler on board.
And even from those that youwere talking about, your mom was
perhaps a little concerned, youknow, with the walking groups a
little concerned.
You know, with the walkinggroups, for example, we even
pair them into a bit slowerwalking group and a bit faster
walking group when you're pairedwith the local guides.

(38:27):
Or, you know, if a guestdoesn't want to get off ship and
doesn't want to go for anexcursion, there's lots to enjoy
just being on ship during theday and, as we said, sail on to
the next destination and watchthe world go by.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
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And now back to the show.
I know we've spoken a little bitabout first time cruisers.
The one thing I also wanted tomake sure we addressed is repeat
cruisers.

(40:52):
I'm sure you have a very highrepeat rate and specifically
people who love river cruisingtend to go back with the brand
that they have experienced orthey'll travel with various
river cruise companies, becausethey like the different ships
and the different rivers, andone of the things that attracts
them is new innovations because,as we've been talking about the
onboard experience, for anyonewho has been on a river cruise

(41:14):
and listening to this, they'relike they totally get it right
away because from an exteriorpoint of view, the ships look
very similar.
I know, your scenic ships havebeen purpose-built for the
rivers and there are certainrequirements, as many of those
experienced know, to be able tonavigate the waterways in Europe
and therefore you have toadhere to specific design
requirements that from theoutside, looking in, they look

(41:36):
fairly similar, but it's reallyon the inside that the
differences make themselvesapparent.
So, when we think about some ofthe innovations that Scenic and
Emerald have been introducingintroducing, I know, one of the
big focuses these space shipeurope, uh, in europe that are
designed to optimize the amountof space and, you know, having a
more luxurious experience.
But what are, I guess, some ofthe innovations that you're

(41:58):
bringing with these new ships,with these new itineraries, that
those people that areexperienced with river cruising
but haven't yet tried scenic oremerald, what would be some of
the things that would stand outto them?

Speaker 1 (42:11):
yeah.
So I would say to you, kind ofexplaining to you how we first
came into river cruising in 2008and building um those first
ships that had the outdoorprivate balcony.
Uh, that is where ourinnovation started and really
that's where we were the leadersof innovation.
Um, and that that justcontinues as we evolve along

(42:32):
every year and as our fleetgrows, and everything from
taking advantage of all thepossible space that we can on
board and you're correct, ourscenic brand is called
spaceships.
Our Emerald Cruises brand isstarships, but the spaceships
that's why they were called thatnot spaceships to go to the

(42:53):
moon, but space and being ableto use that, because, to your
point, it can only be a certainlength and a certain height to
get through those locks inEurope and to be able to get
under those bridges that we needto on the European waterways.
And so, being on board, how weutilize that, everything from

(43:14):
the closet design in your suiteto that indoor private balcony,
to where the little stool goesunder so that you can sit or
pull it out to sit at the table,to the slumber beds that have
the the back that will come upand down on your scenic beds.
I mean, people always think athome oh, I need to get one of

(43:36):
those for my home life.
You know where?
I can just press that up to thepillow menus that we have that
you can choose from.
So all of these are slightlyjust little things, but they
make a difference and they lookat our innovation as we grow and
continue to build ships alongthe way.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Well, it's certainly one of the things that guest
expectations are continuing toevolve, especially as you push
into more ultra luxury, and sothose innovations are obviously
that much more important to beable to continue to evolve the
guest experience.
What are some of the thingsthat and maybe it's specific to
some of the new ships and someof the new itineraries, but what

(44:18):
are some of the ways that Iguess Scenic has been responding
to that?
We've probably addressed a fewof them, but is there anything
else on that topic that wehaven't covered?
That would be interesting fortravelers or travel advisors to
know how the guest experience isevolving at scenic yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
So I think, um, you know, if we look at um, I'll
give you a key example um, theseine river, uh, in france that
starts and ends in paris, uh,scenic has had a special um
designed ship purposebuilt forthat river.
And why we're different to thecompetition on that is that we

(44:55):
have purpose-built that ship atonly 110 meters in length, and
the reason being is that onlywith that length are you able to
sail all the way to Honfleur.
And why is that important?
Well, for two reasons.
One, honfleur is a beautifuldestination.
If you've never been, pleaseput it on your list.
It's just gorgeous, a littleFrench town.

(45:16):
But the other reason that it'simportant is because one of the
key experiences that you want tohave on this river cruise is to
visit the D-Day landing beachesin Normandy.
It's really important.
It's part of that history andthat culture that we want to
learn.
Well, that's quite a full-dayexperience, a full-day journey.

(45:38):
So it involves a motor coachtour that takes you to the
beaches of Normandy.
We actually split up our guestsin nationality, so the Canadians
can go to Juneau Beach and theAmericans are going to Omaha and
et cetera.
But it actually makes thejourney shorter if you're

(45:59):
sailing all the way down toHonfleur and getting closer to
the destination compared to someof our competitors that can,
for example, only go as far asRouen.
So that's an innovative featurethat we're always looking at
guest feedback From the verybeginning of where we have.
The guests say, oh, I wentriver cruising but I didn't have
a balcony like I had on HollandAmerica to how we purpose build

(46:24):
ships so that we can get to theplaces that guests really want
to go to.
So that is for Scenic.
And when I say about innovatinginto the future, our newest
announcement is that EmeraldCruises will introduce their own
Seine River cruise ship in 2027.
And that's called Emerald Lumiand again, it will be

(46:46):
purpose-built so that it canhave the same experience as
scenic going to the destination.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Oh, that's exciting.
I was just in France again andit's a destination.
I did the river cruise withUniworld from Paris to Normandy
and I couldn't agree with youmore that that's a must
experience.
And with the D-Day beaches, ourkids, we did a
multi-generational trip whichwas really special as well.
And our kids were young and theygot a chance to experience that

(47:13):
and I've got a beautifulpicture of my daughter looking
out over the beaches and justtrying to share with them what
that would have looked like 60years ago and I think that is an
incredible itinerary, start tofinish, because of the cuisine.
This is where Europe is such aspecial destination for river
cruising.
Although there are many new andemerging destinations, the
capacity with Europe and addingnew ships and new itineraries,
there's still a lot ofunexplored opportunity there, so

(47:35):
that's exciting to hear.
The other thing I wanted to askyou about the new destinations.
I know we briefly mentionedSoutheast Asia.
Tell us a little bit about someof the new itineraries that
you're planning or some otherdestinations you're looking to
get into.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, so as far as a Europe river cruise experience
and the destinations that wesail to, we're not looking at
the moment bar adding moreinventory and adding emeralds,
going into Normandy as maybe adestination For the most part,
kind of in Europe we have itcovered, where at least the

(48:10):
rivers run through and makesense for guests.
But you're correct, we openedup Southeast Asia for the scenic
ship again, first of its ownbeing a small, intimate,
experienced ship.
And of course in Southeast Asiayou don't need to worry about
the height of your ship, so it'sa little taller.

(48:33):
It means that we can make thesuites a little larger on our
ships for both Emerald andScenic in Southeast Asia.
And that's important becausemaybe in Europe you go, you know
what I'm going to be so activeand out there all the time and
sitting on the top deck and Idon't need to, I really don't
worry about the size of my suite.

(48:53):
I maybe don't need a balcony,and that's a factor and that's
an understanding for many guestsand that's a great perspective.
When you're in Southeast Asiayou do find, with the weather
and it being much more warm,warmer, much more warmer, warmer
, that guests want to retreat totheir suites in the afternoon

(49:18):
to enjoy that air conditioningand to kind of just enjoy the
suite and relax and wind down alittle bit.
And having the pool on boardalso helps.
So being able not as strictfrom a bridge point of view or a
lock point of view in SoutheastAsia has allowed us to really
innovate the ships there, makethem smaller, more intimate and

(49:41):
more luxurious, believe it ornot.
And that destination one of thethings that we have changed
just in this last year is toactually offer a longer duration
of sailing of nine days insteadof the regular seven days
between Ho Chi Minh and SiemReap.
And that again was feedbackfrom our guests who were looking

(50:03):
for a bit more of immersiveexperience in Southeast Asia and
wanted more time on the riverand more to enjoy.
So that's one of the changeswe've made.
But it's not just about theriver cruising in Southeast Asia
, and that's why all of ourpackages add on the pre a couple
of nights in Ho Chi Minh and afew nights in Siem Reap and some

(50:26):
amazing culture experiences onland, For example, Scenic in
particular has a scenic and richexperience, and what I mean by
scenic and rich is that ithappens on the ships in Europe
and the destinations in Europeand in Southeast Asia.
But it's about taking you tosomething that is truly special
and cultural for thatdestination and it's only

(50:48):
available to scenic guests.
So it's not something you canjust buy off the shelf.
It's especially designed justfor us being a guest and is
fully included.
There's no additional charge tothat.
And one of them, for example,is in Siem Reap and we we take
over a temple destination in theevening and we set it up with a

(51:09):
special stage and a dinnerexperience and we put on a
cultural evening event and amusical event and cultural event
there that guests walk awaygoing.
That just made my trip so froma destination and innovative of
where we're going next.
That certainly makes sense.
But you brought up a good pointearlier about loyalty guests and

(51:33):
our loyalty guests are verytrue to us.
It's amazing how you know,obviously, almost 40 years out
of Australia, we've had a numberof loyalty guests who have
continued that, who havecontinued that.
But one of the most specialthings that happened to me just
last week is meeting with ourtop tier loyalty guests that we
have from Canada.

(51:53):
So there are a number ofdifferent levels with scenic
loyalty that grow depending onthe, the product and the revenue
and the number of times you'vetraveled with us, and a few
couple of 18 months ago, weneeded to introduce another tier
globally called the Chairman'sClub.
So it obviously comes with theamount you've traveled with.
But, Glenn, our owner hasactually handpicked you to be

(52:17):
part of Chairman's Club and thatincludes everything from you
know, get a special release ofnew product that's coming and
first chance to travel on theChairman's Club cruises and even
a cruise in there and a specialevent.
And all of the guests that werepart of the Chairman's Club were
Australian up until late lastyear, where the first

(52:40):
non-Australian guests wereintroduced.
And they're Canadian and they'refantastic.
They live in Ottawa.
I was in Ottawa last week.
I got to have lunch with themand they started with us doing a
land tour in 2011 in NewZealand and then that's just
grown.
They did a few land tours withus, they did Africa, Then they

(53:02):
did a number of river cruisesand then moved on to our ocean
cruise product as well.
So I think that's one of thekey things when we talk about
innovation.
There's certainly innovationthat we're doing with river
cruising and how we grow thatand bring new ships in and how
we always look at guest feedbackand how we can improve.
But we've got that roundedproduct from a land point of

(53:24):
view and an ocean point of view.
That takes you back to guestssaying, oh, two weeks?
Well, I tell you when they comeback to us again, two weeks
isn't enough.
So they can pair it with land,they can pair it with ocean.
There's lots of opportunities.
So I think, from anorganization, that's how we're
innovating and growing, whetherthat's Scenic or Emerald, moving
forward.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, it's interesting to hear about
Southeast Asia.
One of the things that certainlycomes up when brands are moving
into new destinations issustainability, and you actually
hit on another important topictoo, which is repeat guests and
the fact that if someone's goingto continue traveling with a
travel brand that they respectand adore, they obviously want
to know their commitment tosustainability.

(54:04):
I know that's something giventhe scale of the group at Scenic
, the number of travelers thatyou take around the world and
especially the differentitineraries that you offer.
I know this is very importantto the organization.
You have the Cherish the Planetinitiative and one of the
things I just wanted tohighlight for our listeners,
because so many people arehesitant to take an ocean cruise

(54:25):
, and I know it's a bigchallenge for that category and
I know they're doing a lot ofwork to address that when it
comes to the shore power, whenit comes to wastewater
management and certainly justthe impact it has on the
environment.
So talk us through some of thethings that Scenic is
undertaking, because I knowthere's quite a few marine
initiatives and the UNWTOinitiatives that you guys are

(54:48):
adhering to, and I just want todraw some of those out because I
know it's important to mostpeople today that are making a
decision even now for the firsttime to travel with someone, but
absolutely if they're going tocontinue traveling again.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah, no, absolutely You're correct.
We have a Cherish the Planetprogram which really is a
commitment to beingenvironmentally responsible
tourism and protecting theplaces and the communities that
we visit.
So that's been going for anumber of years with us and it's
everything from what we informthe public about but even within

(55:20):
our own offices so looking athow we can reduce our carbon
footprint in our offices and howwe recycle and what we do from
an environmental business, froman employee it's everything from
the bottom to the top and allencompassing of the places that
we go to we address the CO2emissions.
We also look very much at howwe can ensure that local

(55:43):
businesses benefit from thevisit of whatever place that
we're going to and whatevervessel that we're going to.
So we do that very much inSoutheast Asia or Africa when we
go to orphanages and look atcharitable places that we can
look to so that we're addressingsustainability for the future.

(56:04):
Where it's possible and feasible, fresh produce is sourced from
local markets.
So that's a little difficult inAntarctica, but in Antarctica,
for example, we have our onboardherb garden to try and bring
that freshness.
But everywhere else that we canand where it's possible, we
really try and source from alocal market and make sure that

(56:25):
we're looking after that localeconomy as well as having fresh
and wonderful food for ourguests to enjoy.
Reducing wastewater from allangles is really important, and
the vessels are equipped withthe latest technology and
managing things according to abest practice to help reduce the
environmental impacts we have.

(56:46):
So, for example, on our sceniceclipse ships and those ones
that go to Antarctica, we arecertified polar class six and
we're designed and built withthe standards that we need to.
So one of those things iscalled GPS positioning, so we
don't drop anchor.
What we do with GPS positioningis it means that the ship can

(57:07):
stay there and just rotate whereit is, so we're not dropping
anchor that might look toperhaps damage or hurt anything
on the bottom floor of thewaterway.
So that's a few examples of howwe're really trying to address
that issue.
That is very important toeveryone.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yeah, it's interesting.
You mentioned that specifically.
David Attenborough justrecently celebrated his 99th
birthday and I'm sure manypeople are watching his new
series, oceans and highlightingthe issue about trawling the
ocean floors and just what animpact it has, so even dropping
an anchor.
These are things that peopleare becoming much more
conscientious of, and so I knowwe've gotten into some of the
specifics specifics and Iappreciate you sharing that
because it's valuable for me.

(57:47):
I know it's really important toour listeners as well, because,
you know, a river cruise is a,you know, a big investment of
time and money, and people arenow, you know, being very
diligent about theirdecision-making.
So a lot of these questionsthat we've been discussing are
clearly factoring into theirdecision-making.
But if we take a step back fromthat level of detail and just
think about what's happening tothis industry, as we've heard

(58:10):
over this series, we had Pamfrom Avalon talking about the
fact that river cruising isgoing to double in the next five
years, from about $5 billion to$10 billion, and so
sustainability is that much moreimportant when there's concern
about rivers being crowded orjust an abundance of tourists in
certain destinations.
But I wanted to understand fromyour point of view, lisa, what
you think is driving thisinterest in river cruising.

(58:32):
So, yes, there's challengesaround it.
We have to be very mindfulabout how we approach it and
manage that.
But when you think about whatis actually leading to this many
people choosing a river cruise,what are some of the factors
that you could?
Demographics is a massive one.
For sure, and you highlightedthat that you know the main
audience is 60 plus and half ofthe baby boomers are retired and

(58:54):
the half will be retiring inthe next five years.
So that's clearly a major trendthat is seeing one of the
reasons there's a surge inpopularity of river cruising.
But, from your perspective,what are some of the key factors
that you think are driving thetrend of the growth in the river
cruise market?

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Yes, I really think it takes us back to what people
are looking for as a deeper,more meaningful travel
experience and that authenticity, and I think they feel that
they're going to get that byhaving an experience that's more
intimate from the size and isable to go to those destinations

(59:33):
along the way that guests wantto visit.
I mean, from a river cruisingpoint of view.
We're really focusing ontailored experiences that we've
talked about during this podcast.
You know everything's alsofocused on health and safety and
flexibility, and you know ourguests might be 60 plus, but I
tell you they're fit.
Many of them they're on those,you know, 30 kilometer bicycle

(59:57):
rides and doing that with ourguides or on their own, and so
that more meaningful travel andin a different way, where you're
not with a thousand otherpeople, has become more
important to people all of thetime, and then also a value for
money.

(01:00:17):
So you know it's great to beable to just get on ship and, as
we talked about, you'reunpacking once and everything's
all included and I don't need toworry about it.
You're unpacking once andeverything's all included and I
don't need to worry about it andthey're going to take care of

(01:00:53):
me everything from picking me upat the airport and transferring
me to the ship and lookingafter me at the end and taking
me back to the airport to getgoing.
Or if I want to stay a few days, I can do an extension with a
guide who, you know, doesn'thold my hand for the entire time
but gives me the overalltouring aspect of Prague and
tells me the highlights and thenpoints me in the right
direction on the map when I wantsome free time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
So that kind of authenticity and service and
kind of just recognition of whatpeople are looking for and
acknowledging that is reallyimportant.
And acknowledging that isreally important.
Yeah, and on that topic, whenwe think about the expansion of
our industry, clearly one of thebig channels is trade and I
know that's a big part of yourrole.
So travel agents are that muchmore important.
We've talked to themspecifically as part of this.
But if we look at sales andmarketing overall, I think

(01:01:26):
that's one of the things thatmany people coming into this
industry or travelers listeningto this, trying to understand
how river cruises aredistributed and marketed, and
you've obviously got somevaluable insights to share there
.
So I do want to discuss this.
I want to discuss the wholetopic of sales and marketing in
river cruise because you've gotan extensive background in
tourism.
You know what it's like to beon the multi background in

(01:01:47):
tourism.
You know what it's like to beon the multi-day tour side.
You know what it's like to workin rail and the kind of luxury
rail.
So if we think about rivercruising and the roles of sales
and marketing, how do youapproach specifically?
Let's maybe talk about traveladvisors first, because I know
cruise lines.
I mean many travel companies,and large travel companies, are

(01:02:07):
very reliant on what's known asthe trade and partnerships with
travel advisors.
Tell us a little bit of howimportant that is to Scenic and
Emerald and how you go aboutsupporting those partnerships.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Yes, so, yes, the trade is very, very important to
Scenic and Emerald.
That truly is how we have grownour brand in this country and
everything from the land to theriver to the ocean, and we truly
appreciate the relationship wehave with them.
And you know, I think we wouldsay in many ways we're similar

(01:02:38):
to others out there.
You know we have our businessdevelopment managers that are
around the country that visitour travel agents or do
cooperative experiences withthem, and we even have one in
Quebec.
So we expand that.
You know we have our travelagent hub.
We have May in particular astravel agent appreciation month.

(01:03:00):
So we have a number ofincentives in place for our
travel advisors and you know theeducation that we provide them,
our online booking system.
But I think one of the keydifferentiators to us to the
others out there is that we holda number of river cruise
information sessions across thecountry.

(01:03:20):
So we do this in aroundFebruary of each year, we do it
again the end of May and intoJune, and then later in the fall
, late September, into October,and these river cruise
information sessions areadvertised to the public in
multiple different ways.
So that's everything fromdigital, social, newspaper

(01:03:46):
advertising, travel agentsgetting flyers that they can
invite their clients.
And we include the trade andactually encourage the trade to
bring their guests to theseinformation sessions.
They're about an hour and ahalf in duration, they're tea,
coffee and a cookie, and it'struly about explaining what a

(01:04:07):
river cruise experience is, whatare the itineraries, what's the
differences, where to go to.
And many agents love it becausethey're doing you know, they're
educating their client by thecore people ourselves that work
for the company and work for theorganization, and then the

(01:04:27):
travel agent can take the guestback to their office and do the
booking themselves and be ableto provide the travel agent
support over that.
When we've been able to, I guess, kind of sell the guest on the
product and the destination.
And when we first started RiverCruise Sessions, which was
almost at the start in 2008,2009, I think the trade was a

(01:04:50):
little apprehensive, thought wewere going after direct business
and that was not the case atall.
What we did is we brought theinformation sessions from
Australia because they had beendoing them in that market for a
number of years and found thatthey were really successful in
educating the public.
So we did that here in Canadaand then we invited the trade

(01:05:11):
and I tell you, once the tradefigured it out, they went oh my
gosh, this is brilliant, this isexcellent.
And we see growing attendancefrom both trade and consumers
each year, and that's why we doso many of them through the year
.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yeah, I like that.
You mentioned biscuits.
That's such an Australian thing, because Tim Tams, of course,
yes, and so Campbell Harris, whoruns Global Journeys, has
highlighted to me when we openup the Toronto office that you
know we just expect a lot ofbiscuits to the team.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
So anytime someone's coming in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
but I mean, it makes sense.
Tea and coffee is like actuallysometimes maybe a bottle of
wine.
Enjoy that on the weekend.
But the other thing I wanted toask you too, lisa, given that
you're across both sales andmarketing, and the way that most
consumers will find out aboutthese river cruise companies is
through marketing.
Clearly they have travel agentsthey work with.
The travel agent will be verylikely to recommend the

(01:06:02):
experience to them.
But if we think about some ofthe most successful marketing
initiatives within this sector,certainly one of them that
stands out to me, at least inthe US market, was Viking's
partnership with PBS, withDownton Abbey, and that sort of
introduced a lot of people toriver cruising, even though I
still laugh because you knowthere's not a river cruise that
actually goes past Downton Abbey.
So the fact that you know youhave this TV, but nevertheless

(01:06:24):
the point is that luxurious theold world, like there was a
connection between people whowould watch the show and people
that would go on a river cruise.
And I know one of the thingsthat Scenic has certainly
invested in is in a major way inAustralia is TV production and
it's one of the most effectiveways to be able to get people to
have an understanding of whatthe experience is like.

(01:06:45):
So what I'm keen to know is,from Scenic's point of view,
what are some of the majormarketing initiatives that you
guys have undertaken that youhave found that have been
particularly effective, andwhether they be something you've
shot in Australia that's nowbeing broadcast in Canada, like
on CTV, which all our Canadiansknow what we're talking about.
But we have listeners in 125countries.
So I'm always trying to bemindful mindful who the heck

(01:07:06):
else is going to know what CTVis?
But nevertheless, tell us alittle bit some of the bigger
marketing campaigns and some ofthe more successful ones that
you guys have worked on.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah, so let me just start it off by saying to you
that we're at our mostsuccessful when we have a
multifaceted approach.
So that's everything fromhaving those information
sessions, the digitaladvertising to get the guests
into the information sessions,the newspaper ads we're doing,
the travel agents themselves andhow they're promoting and the

(01:07:38):
brochures and all of that, andwhen that's all running together
, that's our biggest success.
However, we have also dabbledin television, so we would be
showing our age here.
But you know, back in 2017,2016, 2018, there was still a
show called Canada AM and thatwas the morning show that

(01:08:01):
covered across Canada and we didtwo years in a row a live
broadcast with Jeff Hutchinson,who was the weather and sports
guy of Canada AM at that time,and we did both actually years
from France.
So we did the south of Francethe first year and then we did
the Seine River and Normandy onthe second year, and that was

(01:08:24):
fantastic because obviously itwas our demographic of viewer.
And that was fantastic becauseobviously it was our demographic
of viewer, it was live and thetime difference worked perfectly
because it was afternoon inEurope when we were first thing
in the morning, whether that wasin Ontario or British Columbia
and there were a number ofcut-ins for the weather and the

(01:08:44):
sports and then giving an ideaof what the ship was or what the
destination was.
So by bringing over the hostand the TV team, what we would
do during the day is go todifferent experiences and shoot
that segment and then when wehad the live broadcast, we would
introduce that.
Obviously, canada AM finishedand there was no longer really

(01:09:07):
that live experience that wentcoast to coast.
So we took a bit of a breakfrom that and obviously there
was a bit of a COVID break etc.
But just recently we've startedto introduce television again
and this is primarily on theocean side, but we will be
transitioning to river andhighlighting that in the future,

(01:09:31):
but in two ways.
There is a television series inAustralia called Getaway.
It's a half hour long series.
Travel destination and Scenichas been a partner for 15 years
in Australia and it runs on aSaturday evening just before the
news and they have really highviewer retention.

(01:09:54):
We have brought Getaway to CTV,actually to the CTV Life
channel, just over the lasteight weeks.
So we have been highlightingeverything from Antarctica with
scenic eclipse, to our EmeraldYacht experience in the
Caribbean for two episodes, thenback to eclipse in the Arctic

(01:10:15):
for two episodes and then justlast weekend and this coming
weekend is scenic Bordeaux onour river cruising.
So it airs I believe it's 11 amon a Saturday morning or 2 pm
Eastern time on a Saturdaymorning on CTV Life.
So that's Getaway.
We're going to see how thatperforms and then look to

(01:10:37):
probably continue that seriesbecause it really gives guests
overall.
We don't really have a travelshow in Canada for people to
enjoy and to see and to kind oflearn about distant destinations
and the shows themselves arevery destination focused and
then of course we highlight howyou can get there with scenic

(01:10:57):
and emeralds along the way.
But that's one of it.
The other again was from anocean point of view.
At the first week of April, theend of March, we were in
partnership with the MorningShow that now runs nationally,
as you know, for that one hourfrom 9 to 10 am with Jeff
MacArthur and Carolyn, and webrought the Morning Show with

(01:11:22):
travel expert Claire Newell,based in British Columbia, onto
our Caribbean ship in Februaryand we filmed during the whole
week and we did a five-daysegment with the morning show
and highlighted each day aboutfive minutes with the hosts of
our special Caribbean experienceon Emerald Yacht and as well we

(01:11:43):
had a contest for viewers.
So when we put all of that inthat multi-faceted approach
together, those are realhighlights for us and really do
drive bookings, not um to uhjust to us but obviously to
travel advisors, who thencontinue and book with us well,
it's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I just want to underline two points you just
shared there, lisa, for our, forour listeners, since, as you
know, my background is very muchon the marketing and digital
side, globally working withtravel brands and the travel
corporation for many years, andthere's two things that you said
there that I found reallyinteresting, that I just wanted
to underline.
One of them was the fact thatintegrated campaigns are the
most successful where you'redoing print, digital and TV in

(01:12:24):
certain cases, and one of thethings that you called out there
is print, because print isstill relevant and still
important, especially given thedemographic.
So that was really interestingand I just wanted to underline
that for those people who arelistening to this that are
looking for marketing guidanceand advice, because that's
obviously been a real key toyour success, for sure.
And then the other one that youmentioned, even though it's
Canadian specific, but it's theidea of morning shows, and this

(01:12:46):
was the part that I always findso fascinating that you see what
works in one market and itclearly will work in other
markets, and every major markethas a morning show.
Australia has the morning show,and some of them go by similar
names.
The US has Good Morning America.
That's their number one, and soif you really want to get
breakthrough and cut through inthe marketplace, being featured

(01:13:07):
on a morning show is a massivegateway to success.
So if you can have a greatfeature and a great profile and
someone that's been on a shipand the host talk about it, it
can be a game changer for somecompanies to really establish
themselves in a new market.
So I thought it was reallyinteresting there what you're
highlighting about Canada, but Ijust wanted to share that with
our global audience thatactually, wherever you are, if

(01:13:28):
there's a morning program thatyou can be associated with, it
certainly is an importantelement, just because it has so
much reach, as you well know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
That is how the success of Australia started.
Glenn started 30 years ago withthe relationship with Channel 9
and the morning show and theToday Show Australia Today Show
and doing live broadcasts withthem.
So you know we didn't reinventthe wheel here in Canada when we
started doing it, we werelooking at what our other market

(01:13:59):
and our main market was doingand thought we'd try it and
introduce it in Canada and, toyour point, absolutely it's been
great success for us.
As Glenn, our owner, alwayssays to me, though, once you
start television, you have tocontinue with television.
It is an ongoing marketinginitiative.
You can't, unfortunately, justkind of dip in and out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Yeah, people wonder what happened to you.
Wait a second, you used to beon the Morning Show.
Are you guys still operating?
No, that's a really good point.
I appreciate you sharing thoseinsights, and so many valuable
insights over the course of ourconversation.
I've been really enjoying this.
There's two other things I wantto cover with you, and then
I'll make sure that everyone canfind out more information and
be able to connect with youafter this.
But given that you are such anexpert in this space, clearly

(01:14:39):
you've done a lot of rivercruises yourself, so I wanted to
know what was the mostmemorable river cruise you've
taken and what's up next for youwith your travels most
memorable river cruise you'vetaken and what's up next for you
with your travels?

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
So, interestingly enough, I've been very fortunate
to travel on a number of ourriver cruises.
You're correct, and they'vealways been for work purposes.
Until two years ago, when Itook my mom on the Portugal Duro
cruise for her 80th birthdayand we got a bunch of friends
together and it was justspectacular.

(01:15:14):
We've talked about it.
That destination is reallyunique and cool and upcoming and
not too touristy yet, and thenour ship being that really
unique, intimate experience justmade it fantastic.
So that was, that was veryspecial from that river cruise

(01:15:38):
experience.
And then what's to come for me?
well, a couple of them aresecret, so I can't fully tell
you yet They'll be announced tocome, but yes, You're getting in
early on some new expansionplans.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Well, maybe there might be somespecial hosted loyalty cruises

(01:16:04):
that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
I maybe host.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
So that's part of it.
But one of the dreams before Ileave this planet is to get to
Antarctica one day, and ofcourse I know I'm a bit biased,
but even apart from that I wouldsay, hands down, we do that the

(01:16:27):
best of any operator there,because we have our helicopters
and our submersible and just afull luxury experience there.
So you know what?
I'm crossing my fingers thatthat might happen sooner rather
than later for me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
That's awesome, and that's definitely right up there
.
For me, too, lisa.
The one thing that's held meback is crossing the Drake
Passage, and so I'm going toneed all the pharmaceuticals,
I'm going to need all of the anydevice, the wrist like just to
get through.
That, I've heard, and it reallyjust depends on how rough the
crossing is.
It's very much up to chance,right?

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
So yeah, it's either the Drake Shake or the Drake
Lake, and, yeah, you don't know.
The one super thing on ScenicEclipse, though, is we have
those really large stabilizers,so I'm not saying that we're not
still going to have a bit of anexperience, but with the large
stabilizers that are like on thereally large ocean cruise ships
, and having it on a ship thatonly takes 200 guests to

(01:17:19):
Antarctica, it does make it alittle more comfortable.
I've been told I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
you describe it as a little bit of an experience.
Now, I'm intrigued to have thatexperience.
Maybe I'll actually enjoycrossing the Drake Passage.
I really enjoy getting a chanceto meet you and have this
conversation.
Lisa, I do want to make surethat all of our listeners can
follow up with you, learn moreabout Scenic, so where would you
direct them after this chat?

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Well, absolutely From a consumer point of view, visit
your local travel agent, yourprofessional travel advisor.
They know our products well andif they don't know everything,
they can give our reservationsteam a call and certainly help
you to close and finalize yourtrip and your journey.

(01:18:03):
And where you're going with us.
Our website, scenicca from aCanada point of view, or
emeraldcruisesca, are super waysto also connect.
Our brochures are availableeither to download or to have
one mailed to you.
We still mail a paper brochurebecause they are very important
to our guests and, of course,our information sessions are

(01:18:24):
running across the country fromMay 20th until June 21st or June
12th I believe We've got threeweeks of them and they go from
east to west and you'll find thedates and the times and free to
attend, to register.
It's a really good way to learnabout river cruising and what

(01:18:45):
makes us different and it's nota hardcore sales job.
It truly is an informationsession that provides guests
with knowledge and, of course,talks about our products and
what we offer, but why you wouldgo there, what the destination,
why river cruising is reallypopular and why it's so special,
and I would highly recommendthat's a great way for guests,

(01:19:07):
consumer and travel agent tolearn more about river cruising
in general and more information.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
That's great.
Thank you, Lisa.
Excellent suggestions, supervaluable feedback and advice for
new travelers, for returningriver cruisers, for travelers
and travel agents alike.
So thank you for sharing all ofyour insights and it was
wonderful to meet you.
I look forward to keeping intouch and have a wonderful
summer.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Super.
Thanks so much, Dan.
Really appreciated the timewith you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Thanks so much for joining us on this latest
episode of Travel Trends.
I hope you enjoyed ourconversation today with Lisa
McCaskill from Scenic, as wecontinued our deep dive into the
world of river cruises.
Next week, we're going to haveour fourth and final episode, as
we feature Pam Hoffey, thepresident of Avalon, and it's
really a perfect way to cap offthis series, because I wanted to
bring together all of the majorbrands in this space, and

(01:19:54):
specifically Globus and theirintroduction of Avalon.
You remember we heard fromSteve about the Globus family of
brands during our guidedtouring series, and Avalon was
the new brand that they createdto enter the river cruise space.
So I thought it added a reallyinteresting dynamic to this
whole conversation and will be aperfect way to finish off this
first deep dive.

(01:20:15):
So make sure that you areregistered on the streaming
platform of your choice to benotified when new episodes go
live, and I just want to saythanks again to the team at
Captio for sponsoring thisseries.
To learn more about them andtheir technology solutions,
check out kaptiocom and then,finally, I just want to remind
everyone that we are officiallylive with our 2025 AI Summit

(01:20:38):
October 28th and 29th.
You can pre-register now attraveltrendspodcastcom, and then
all of these conversations.
We post clips and highlights onour social channels, so be sure
to check us out at TravelTrends Podcast on Instagram,
youtube and LinkedIn.
Thanks again for joining us.
We look forward to having youback next week for our
conversation with Pam Hoffeyfrom Avalon.
And until then, safe travels.

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