Cycle, Hike & Adventure - The New Multi-Day Movement with Active England Tours

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Travelers think they want Stonehenge - but what they remember is a pint shared with locals, the scent of wild hedgerows, and a guide who brings the landscape to life.

In the final episode of our Emerging Multi-day Tour series, we sit down with Will Cairns, Managing Director of Active England Tours, to explore how a soft-adventure brand transforms repeat UK visitors—mostly American retirees—into lifelong fans through curation, kindness, and flexibility. From e-bikes and support vans to clever Sunday tour starts that lower hotel costs, Will shares the thoughtful decisions that create value without ever sacrificing soul.

We also get candid about distribution, growth, and brand differentiation. With roughly 70% of bookings coming via trade partners and 30% direct, Active England is aiming for a balanced 60–40 mix. Will explains how to scale both sides by leading with guides—not logos—and designing themed itineraries that surprise and delight, such as pairing the Chelsea Flower Show with garden trails in the Cotswolds. He reveals why Avebury can outshine Stonehenge for immersion, how to expand beyond the usual hotspots into Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, and Scotland, and why standing apart is more sustainable than competing on price.

We then go behind the scenes of Active England’s operator playbook—from choosing tech that fits your stage (migrating to Moonstride, layering Mailchimp and HubSpot) to hiring for empathy and building a strong management layer as the company grows.

Whether you’re an emerging tour operator or a traveler curious about what makes a week in England truly unforgettable, this conversation is a masterclass in scaling travel the human way.

For more information, please visit Active England Tours.

👉 Listen to Cycle, Hike & Adventure - The New  Multi-Day Movement Now

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
My view is that I think organically we can grow
the business and double it infive years.
And if we do that, then I'd bevery proud.
Everybody'd be happy.
And then that's the time atwhich I would be looking to
exit.

SPEAKER_03 (00:24):
Hello everyone and welcome back to Travel Trends.
This is your host, DanChristian, and today we're going
to feature our final installmentin our emerging tour operator
series by speaking to themanaging director of Active
England Tours, Will Cannes.
Now, Will and I had the chanceto sit down live in person
recently.
He was also on our podcast a fewmonths ago as part of the ATTA

(00:46):
Denver Elevate Spotlightepisode.
And it was a really interestingconversation.
And I thought it would round outthis three-part series really
well because you heard fromNabila, the founder of A Dose of
Travel, and then you heard fromLisa Pagat from Crooked Compass.
And you have two differentexceptional female executives
that are running globalbusinesses, one from New York,

(01:07):
one from Sydney.
And now we go to Will Cannes,who is based, as you'll hear,
just outside of London in abeautiful part of England called
the Cots Worlds.
And he explains right off thetop why they've decided to be
based there.
But their audience is primarilyAmericans traveling to the UK.
And he not only is a veteran inthis space, although he only

(01:27):
started this company just over10 years ago, but he has a great
sense of PR and branding fromhis background.
And so many of the questionsthat I get a chance to ask Will
today, I think will resonatewith a lot of our listeners that
are trying to figure out theiroverall brand strategy in the
multi-day tour space.
So I look forward to bringingyou this conversation.
I just wanted to highlight thatthis series was brought to us in

(01:49):
partnership with our friendsover at TorCeta.com, which has
focused on building the moderntechnology platform for group
and multi-day tour providers.
And I encourage you to check outmore information at TorSeta.com.
Thank you again to Alex and theteam for sponsoring the series
and making these conversationspossible.

(02:10):
And lastly, I just wanted tohighlight that you can find
clips and highlights from allthese conversations on our
social channels, which areYouTube, LinkedIn, and
Instagram.
Now, let's bring in Will Cannesand round out this fantastic
three-part series on emergingmulti-day.
Will, it's a real pleasure tohave you back on Travel Trends.
Thanks again for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Thank you so much.
It's great.
It's great to be back, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 (02:30):
Absolutely.
It was such a thrill tointerview you at the ATTA Denver
Elevate Conference.
I know our audience loved ourconversation, and I wanted you
to be back and part of thisspecial emerging multi-day tour
series that we're doing.
And I think it's perfect to wrapup this series with our
conversation because yourepresent a region that we have

(02:51):
not focused on yet in thisseries, which is the UK.
But I know you generate most ofyour business from the US.
But let's tell everyone a littlebit about Active England tours.
Give us a bit of an overview ofthe company.

SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
So we run uh softer venture trips primarily for the
North American audience.
Um, we run our own trips, B2C,uh, mostly guided, a little bit
of self-guided, and we work B2Bfor some of the major industry
titans in the active space.

SPEAKER_03 (03:17):
And now your background is also quite
interesting as well because youwere late to this, which is why
having you part of this emerginguh multi-day tour series was uh
ideal from my point of viewbecause you were in PR before.
So tell us a little bit abouthow long you've had this company
and how you've grown it over thelast, I guess, kind of eight
years.

SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
So we really started getting motoring in 2018 when I
was transitioning out of my oldbusiness.
Um the business had been going alittle bit before then, but with
about 5% of my time.
Um, we started growing, we hadCOVID.
Actually, COVID, we were okaybecause we were small enough
that we could almost mothballthe business.
Um, and we learned a lot.

(03:56):
We learned about being patient,about being kind to people, and
we got our stuff together duringCOVID.
So we when we came out, we wereready and firing on all
cylinders.

SPEAKER_03 (04:06):
Now let's talk about the trip experience because over
the course of this series I'vebeen really interested to
understand the types of tripsthat Nabila was building at a
dose of travel.
And Crooked Compass is certainlymore of a traditional tour
operator, but they take peopleto really they're they're not
for the first-time grouptraveler, they're for someone
that is experienced group traveland is looking to go further

(04:27):
afield.
So I want to talk about the typeof product the offering, and
then talk about your customer aswell.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe product that you've
developed.

SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
I mean, we always start with the customer.
We have to understand who ourcustomer is, and our customer
generally has been to the UKmultiple times.
Um, most people, and we'vestudied this and we've looked at
the stats.
Most people, when they come tothe UK for the first time,
they'll go to London.
They may go outside London.
Second time, third time, theymight not even go to London and

(04:57):
focus on outlying areas.
So we put the companydeliberately in the Cots Worlds,
which is about an hour, hour anda half out of London, that
serves as our base, and we run alot of our trips from there, but
we were now expanding into allareas of the UK, including
Scotland and Wales, etc.

SPEAKER_03 (05:14):
So when you think about the US market, because it
is such a uh a large market, butit's you know, you you have all
these different states.
When we talk about the actualcustomer, what is that persona
when you think about softadventures?
Uh who are you are youtargeting?
Is it retirees?
Is it um uh affluent couples?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthe audience.

SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
It's mainly retirees, if I'm if I'm brutally
honest.
I think every tour operator isis wanting to garner interest
from a um younger audience, butit's still primarily the
retirees who have whose kidshave left home, they've decided
to spend their kids'inheritance, and they're
traveling multiple times a year.

SPEAKER_03 (05:52):
Yeah.
Well, so and the reason I wantedto dive into this is because one
of the big trends, uh, the kindof the major macro trends is
that you know, with thisgenerational wealth transfer
that you know, some people kindof put the figure at about seven
trillion dollars that over thenext 20 years is gonna pass from
the baby boomers down to thenext generation, they're doing
exactly what you just described,Will, which is that they're

(06:14):
gonna spend it, and rightly so,as far as I'm concerned, having
you know started this podcastconnected to my dad passing
away, was like spend it whileyou're here, travel as much as
possible.
And I'm so glad that so many ofthem are doing exactly that.
But it also positions you andyour company in a really ideal
state where, you know, despitedifferent geopolitical events
that may be occurring around theworld, is that audience they're

(06:36):
gonna try and keep travelingbecause they've got the savings,
they've got their theirpensions, they own their homes,
they're you know, they're andthey're gonna seize the
opportunity.
So just on that topic, what typeof growth are you seeing?
And and what do you think thethe potential is over the next
couple of years as you addressthat that market?

SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Yeah, I mean, on a macro level, it's obvious that
that the the industry isgrowing.
If you look at the ATTA stats,it's 30-40 percent year on year.
Um, many more people areidentifying themselves as active
travelers.
Yeah, and active means can meana lot of different things, and
that's fine.
Yeah, it's a broad church, itdoesn't really matter how active
you feel you are as long as youwant to do something.

(07:15):
So the market is growing, uh,and the way we're approaching it
is we want to serve that marketwith a product that really
resonates with those customers.
It's based on some very simplethinking, and that's we need to
put ourselves in the customer'sshoes at all times.
We need to make sure our guidesare the best, most charming

(07:35):
guides out there.
We don't actually care that muchwhat their backgrounds are, we
don't care age, we don't carewhere they're from, we don't
care what they've been done inthe past.
We want to make sure that wehave guides who are who love
people, who are sympathetic,empathetic.
They just want to enthuse thecustomers about our lovely

(07:55):
country and all the great thingsthat that are there.

SPEAKER_03 (07:58):
Really interesting.
And I guess so on this topic ofwhere the industry is headed and
the growth potential, one of thethings I wanted to dive into,
and you mentioned uh ATTA stats,which you know we did the
special event Spotlight, and Iactually interviewed a lady from
Australia and she washighlighting that uh their
company was totally focused onretirees and building out these
journeys that are more like 26and and 30 days.

(08:20):
That like and uh asked her inthat conversation, you know, who
can do this?
And it really is retirees only.
And so when you think about theproduct you're developing, one
of the things I'm always keen toask leaders in the industry like
yourself is you know, what isyour unique value proposition?
You know, what is it that makesActive England Tours more
compelling than all the othercompetitors that are out there?

(08:42):
Is it the product, is it yourpricing, is it the service?
Um, what is the marketingmessaging that you've found that
resonates most?

SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
We want to give our customers the best week of their
year.
That's our stated goal.
And we do that by having thebest guide.
So I always start with guides.
Um to me, it's the center of ourbusiness, it's the center of the
industry.
If your guides are the besttrained, um, the most um
gregarious, well they'reactually they don't have to be

(09:11):
gregarious.
It you know, we take introvertsand extroverts, it doesn't
matter, you know, their personaltraits, etc., etc.
We just want to make sure thatour guides are the number one
guides out there.
That's what sets us apart, andit's our clear stated goal.
The product speaks for itself,um, the place speaks for itself.
What people think they're goinginto is little old England with

(09:35):
you know cream teas and goinginto Bath, going into Oxford,
going into Stratford, etc etc.
What they take away is the weirdand wonderful people they meet
in the pubs, the the thesimplicity of um living in a
rural environment.
But what people take away is notwhat you would expect.

(09:56):
When people when our guests cometo England, I my my view is they
think they want to go and seeStonehenge, Bath, Oxford, Lenin
Palace, etc etc.
But what they take away issomething very different.
They take away the sights, thesmells, the the landscapes of
the Cotswolds, or Devon andCornwall, or Scotland, the weird

(10:19):
and wonderful people they meetin the pubs, the people they
meet along the trails, all ofthe great food.
The food now in the UK is reallygood.
You know, those are the thingsthat surprise and delight our
customers week on week.
It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (10:32):
And obviously, I'm born in the UK, I've traveled.
My first big trip was a six-weektrip around the British Isles
after university, and I've onlyjust recently discovered uh
cycling as I did when I was atin Chile for the ATTA
conference, and it's one of thethings I was speaking to other
colleagues about where should Igo next?
And they said the Cots Worlds,you've got to go to the
Cotsworlds, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
It's really interesting.
The Cotsworlds is a bit of ahotspot at the moment, it's
almost getting to the pointwhere it's a bit over the top,
uh, in my view.
The prices that the prices aregoing up, uh, the visitor
experience is possibly not whatit was a few years ago.
Yeah.
Um, so we are looking atexpanding from our heartland of
the Cotswolds into other areas,and there are a number of other

(11:13):
areas where we're working now ona weekly basis, which it which
our guests love.
They love to see differentplaces, the off-the-beaten track
places, the pi the places thatare gonna surprise them, and
going back to guides, they willonly go to those places if they
trust and love the guides whothey're working with.
Yeah, so we say to people, don'tgo to Stonehenge, and they go,

(11:34):
Well, we've got to go toStonehenge.
We say, actually, there areplaces much, much better than
Stonehenge.
There's a place down the roadcalled Avebury, and Avebury is a
village completely surrounded by400, no, actually one mile of
stones.
These stones are exactly thesame stones that are Stonehenge.
You can walk around thesestones, touch them, it's

(11:57):
amazing.
Wow, I've not heard of this.
Yeah, it's an absolutely superbplace, and it's 45 minutes from
Stonehenge.

SPEAKER_03 (12:03):
Well, one of the things about your branding that
I also wanted to highlight,since it is active England
tours, and one of the themesthat you were alluding to,
obviously, the um the retirees,this generational wealth
transfer that we were talkingabout, but also this idea that
people are so people are livinglonger.
That's obviously which is agreat thing, and people um in
order to live longer trying tolive healthier lives and being

(12:25):
active.
So the opportunity to takeactive tours is a big part of
this overall growth trend.
So it's like, you know, why iscycling popular?
And I want to get into that in amoment, especially with it
around e-bikes and that type ofthing.
Um, but obviously you've builtactive into the branding, and I
do know sometimes that there'salso the people that are
concerned that a trip might betoo much for them.

(12:45):
So when you say soft adventure,it's an interesting mix there
where you're like, you'reactive, but you're also offering
soft adventure.
So tell us a little bit more, Iguess, about um the the skill
level, the stamina level ofwhat's required for someone to
take one of your trips.

SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
We don't prescribe a level of activity.
Um, we give a guide of what theactivities are going to be like,
but it's it's our customers'holidays, and we've got to
respect that.
And they can bike or walk asmuch as they like.
So we will always have a supportvan available should they want
to stop biking for theafternoon.
They might want to spend moretime at Blending Palace, they

(13:21):
might want to sit in the pub andhave a pint at lunchtime or a
cream tea.
You know, it's it's completelyup to the guests as to how far
or fast they want to run orbike.
So the answer's pretty clear.
It's it's is it's what you wantto do.

SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
And then let's talk about the duration because
that's other um the and thetypes of itineraries that you
offer.
And I know people might bechecking out your website as
we're having this conversation,so feel free to reference that
as well.
But tell us about some of thethe typical itineries, your most
popular itinerar.

SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
Yeah, I think a lot of the most popular itineraries
are our core Cotswolds products,our core Devon and Cornwall
products, and increasingly as wemove into Scotland and other
areas, um, our products north ofthe border in Scotland.
Interesting.
They tend to be six days, fivenights long.
Uh we tend to start them on theSunday.
Perfect length of time,especially for cycling, yeah.

(14:11):
We tend to start them on aSunday because it's actually the
hotels are cheaper and we wantto pass that that those cheaper
prices on to our guests.
So we start on the Sundaymorning, uh, finish on a Friday
morning, and then we could rollthe trip into the next week,
etc.
etc.

SPEAKER_03 (14:24):
Got it.
Well, that's clever.
That's a really interestingapproach.
And then so the and then interms of developing new product,
um, as you look to 2026, uh areyou expanding into more
destinations around the UK?

SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
As I've mentioned before, the the Cotswolds is is
is a hot spot at the moment, uh,and we're looking to expand out
of the Cotswolds into otherregions, so south of Bath into
Somerset, more activities inDevon and Cornwall on the on the
far west of the UK, and tryingto find places that um our North
American audience might not haveheard of.

(14:58):
So, what we do a lot of the timeis we'll say, Okay, we're gonna
do two, three days in theCotswolds, so you get your fix
of the Cotswolds, but then we'regonna go down to Dorset, or
we're gonna go down to the NewForest, or somewhere that they
might not have heard of.
So they get a range of differentplaces.

SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
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SPEAKER_03 (17:01):
And now back to the show.
Now we've talked about productand we talked a bit about the
brand, and we've touched alittle bit on marketing.
Um there's several other areasI'm really keen to get into with
you, Will, distribution, youknow, trade versus uh direct,
but also um looking attechnology and so, but let's
talk about distribution next.
And so what what percentage, ifyou don't mind sharing, of your

(17:24):
business today is direct versusthrough trade trade channels,
and how do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
That's a good question.
I mean, the the it's not quitewhere we want it to be, if I'm
brutally honest.
You know, we're about 70% B2B aswe stand at the moment, 30% B2C.
Post-COVID, our business, likemany, didn't have the the cash,
didn't have the money to investin B2C marketing.
Right.
So our B2B marketing to ourtrade partners was much easier

(17:50):
to to facilitate.
So naturally, our B2B portfoliohas grown.
We're trying to narrow that gap.
If we could get it to 55, 45,that would be perfect.
But I imagine we'll level outsomewhere in the region of
60-40.

SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
Really interesting.
And that's it, yeah.
I just wanted to highlightsomething that uh for our
listeners, certainly from mybackground, and which is that
whenever I've started with atour operator and they've looked
at my background and expertise,which is you know largely
marketing and specificallydigital marketing, one of the
things I've always been taskedwith, whether it was starting at
uh G Adventures or the TravelCorporation, was you know they

(18:26):
were trade-centric and they weretrying to grow B2C.
And we were trying to do it in away that is, to your point about
investment, profitable, like toget you get like a 10-to-1 ROI,
or make sure that in most cases,and again, I want to just
educate all of our listeners inthis series because this is
about emerging tour operators.
And Nabila, for example, doesn'tknow uh very much about the

(18:48):
trade, she sells everythingdirect.
And so when you sell throughtrade partners, you obviously
have a commission that canrange, you don't have to give
specifics, but it you know, itcan be about 15% or sometimes
slightly lower or higher,depending on the partner.
And if you can get your directbusiness for lower than that,
then obviously, so I would oftenbe tasked when I came into a
business to grow direct and beable to grow it for less than

(19:10):
10%.
So if you could get a directbooking for less than you're
gonna pay a commission to anagent, that was worth doing.
The interesting thing on myjourney, and and this is where
I'm keen to get your take onthis, is that you know, even
when we spent money on directmarketing, half of the leads
that we would generate wouldconvert through trade partners.
And they would convert throughtrade partners because they had
air offers or they were they hadto establish relationships.
There's a whole host of reasonswhy customers will choose to

(19:32):
continue to work with a traveladvisor.
And most of them, uh, the mostsuccessful tour operators, like
the large-scale tour operators,and I'll use Intrepid as an
example, take much more of achannel agnostic approach or
omni-channel, knowing that theywant to grow all of the
business.
It's not a zero-sum game wherethey're trying to get from 70%
trade to 70% direct.
The reality is you want to growtrade and direct at the same

(19:55):
time, right?
And so uh so when you say it'snot where you want it to be, and
you mentioned about trying toget to 60-40, what are some of
the things that you're doing uhout of interest stake to be able
to grow the B2C side of thebusiness cost effectively?
And where tell us a little bitof where you've had success on
the trade side in terms of thetypes of partners that have
proven to be quite valuable.
And you don't have to give exactspecifics because I obviously

(20:17):
don't want to be mindful of thecompetition, but at the same
time, I just think be helpfulfor our listeners that are
trying to wrap their head aroundemerging tour operators like
yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
I think the the partners have been great.
Um, they will continue to be uha fantastic source of of revenue
and kind of learning for us, aninspiration for us, because
we're working with some of thebest of the best tour operators
out there, and it's you know,we're we're quite honored and
privileged to be working withsome of these guys.

(20:48):
So we're learning we learn a lotfrom them, which helps the whole
business.
They obviously want us to besuccessful, which is great.
We have proper partnerships, youknow, long-term contracts.
It's working very, very well.
On the B2C side, I think some ofthe things that we need to do
and focus on content, content,and content are probably the
most important things.

(21:08):
Yeah, um, it's one thing,obviously, but literally getting
our content out there, whichdoesn't have to scream active
England, it can be more generic.
We're getting to a point wherebywe're maturing slightly, so some
of our content is not plasteredwith our name and logos and all
of that stuff, it's much moreinspirational, it's message-led,

(21:29):
it's theme-led, and we're doinga whole series of different um
videos, you know, with fantasticdrone footage across the UK.
Amazing.
We have a full plan in place for2026, so we're ready for the
2027 season, um, andeverything's in it already in
the can for 2026.

SPEAKER_03 (21:49):
That's fantastic, that's really exciting.
So it's let's give all ouraudience one of the things I'm I
strongly advocate for on ourlike on the travel trends
advisory side when we're workingwith tour operators is the
content strategy.
You know, a lot of businessesget themselves pretty hooked on
performance marketing, and thiswas an interesting, you know,
pre-pandemic compared topost-pandemic, where a lot of
travel companies realized thatthat brand was really important

(22:13):
uh to grow their company andespecially content strategy.
So tell us a little bit aboutexactly this.
I mean, obviously, I'm intriguedby the drone footage and like
you know creating captivatingvideo assets that you can use to
market.
So tell us a little, I guess, alittle bit about the the content
strategy.

SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
I think again it goes back to the customer.
Start with the customer, makesure that that you're what
you're creating is working forthat customer.
Make sure that we're sticking toour key message about having the
best guides.
The guides are always front andcentre of our content, um, and
making sure that it's plannedeffectively on an ongoing basis,

(22:51):
hitting all of our key themes,looking at some limited edition
um activities and tours, such ascreating a tour off the back of
the Chelsea Flower Show, forexample, you know, where our our
guests will have two, three daysat London at the show, and then
I'll head out into the Cotswoldsor other regions and go and
visit all the gardens.
So we're quite we try and bequite sophisticated with our

(23:13):
content strategy to make surethat we um are surprising our
guests, are giving our guestssomething different from what's
out there in the market.
It's not just selling a genericCotswold store.

SPEAKER_03 (23:26):
Well, and even having that content, it's gonna
be great for your trade partnersbecause they're gonna love
having that content to be ableto show to guests.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe trade side of your business
and um how you're seeing growthand if you are trying to get new
trade partners in differentmarkets.
Um, because obviously, if you'reprimarily targeting the US,
obviously you're looking attrade partners in the US, but

(23:46):
are you also looking at otherregions as well?

SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Yeah, we're starting to look at other regions.
I I think that's um, you know,Australasia is important to us.
Um we're looking at Asia aswell.
We're looking at the expatcommunities in English speaking
expat communities all the wayaround the world.
So we're looking at some of thatstuff.
I think we have to make astrategic decision pretty soon
about what we do with the Asianmarket because we see that it's

(24:10):
growing, we see that it's goingto become more and more
important, and we see that theAsian travelers are going to
want to travel more actively inthe future.
All the stats are bearing out.
We just need to figure out howto get it done in the UK.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:23):
Well, and I think that's where you know you look
at platforms like Fora, um,which you know is having
incredible success, bringingmore and more people into uh
being travel advisors, andthey're obviously expanding
their product portfolio.
So there continues to be moreexciting ways to work with trade
partners.
There's obviously consortius,there's um host agencies,
there's this a whole world thatI just want to make sure that

(24:46):
all of our listeners know thatif you open yourself up to it.
So specifically, I would look atin the US market host agency
reviews.
I've spoken at some of theirconferences, uh, their virtual
conferences, and obviously Shanaand Steph that run that
business.
I it's one of the first places Iwill point a client to to
understand what a host agencyis, what a consortia group is,
and then try and figure out whattrade partners to work with.

(25:07):
And so uh there's long-termgrowth potential for sure in
those categories.
And investors, you look at acompany like Avoya, which has
now been brought up by privateequity.
Avoy is one of the largesthome-based uh agencies in the
US, and it just shows you thatthe capital, and this is where
like when you follow the smartmoney, um, they're making

(25:27):
strategic bets in the industrythat we're talking about.
And the other thing I justhighlight too, and I mean we can
touch on this too, Will, is youknow, when you look at your
business and how you want togrow it in terms of outside
investment, because the numberof private equity uh companies
that reach out to me, we have alot of investors listen to the
show.
And I'll use one exact example,actually.

(25:48):
There's a company called ActiveAdventures out of New Zealand.
Yeah, we know them, yeah.
And Wendy, the CEO, who justactually recently departed,
they're owned by private equity,and she had said to me, you
know, keep me, keep tabs on whowe should be buying because
their private equity firm ispushing them to make more
acquisitions.
And this is one of several uhconversations I've had on this
front.

(26:09):
So, you know, clearly themessage I think what I wanted to
share and get across to everyoneis that this is, as Andy pointed
out, you know, an industrythat's growing at 30 to 40
percent.
And those private equity firms,if they can get a 20% return per
year over five years, they'vedoubled their money.
And that's a great return forthose pension funds and you know
the money that they're managing.
And so, in terms of where youguys are at the moment, um, is

(26:32):
there any interest in eitherfurther investment or getting
the business to a point ofacquisition?

SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
It's a it's a really good question.
Um, I mean, I I I'm I don't wantto be the guy who drags the
business down.
So I'm 55.
I want to make sure that there'sa legacy in the business after
I've gone, and I want to makesure that we've got the right
team in place so whoever takesit over, um that the the
business will thrive in thefuture.

(26:59):
So I've got a clear plan and I'mvery open about it with all of
our staff.
They know exactly what thesituation is that I probably
want to be out of the businessby the time I'm 60.
So I've got five years.
Um and what we're trying to dois we're trying to set the
management team up so that thereare options um for potentially
the management team to take overthe business or look at outside

(27:22):
um purchase via a trade partner.

SPEAKER_03 (27:25):
Yeah, that's fascinating.
And this is where it's soimportant to have these kind of
conversations because figuringout a legacy plan or a
transition plan and alsorecognizing so like it's perfect
having this conversation here in2025, your 55, I think, 60, a
five-year plan of how do you getto the business to a point where
you know there likely will besomeone that comes in and

(27:45):
acquires the business and yourteam, like and I saw that
recently with the travelcorporation where I've worked
for nearly 10 years with Apollocoming in and buying that
business, and then you know, thechanges that uh happen
subsequent that are stillcontinuing to uh to play out.
And this is you know, this isthat the world of private equity
coming into travel in a majorway, and then uh rolling up uh

(28:08):
businesses or spinning them out.
And the one thing I've alsolearned uh too, Will, and you
may be familiar with this, isthat private equity buys from
other private equity.
So they hold on to it for aperiod of time, and then they
you know, they they sell itbecause they've achieved what
they needed to um to createvalue for their investors.
Um so that's exciting.
And so knowing that thatfive-year plan, um, do you have

(28:31):
a kind of a target?
You don't have to give exactspecifics like as far as
passenger numbers, but just interms of growth.
Like, is there kind of somethingin your mind that you want where
you want to get the business toin five years?

SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
Yeah, there's a there's definitely there's
definitely a figure where Ithink I can get it to.
Yeah.
It's a question of appetite forum investment, uh appetite for
growing the business in a sortof more of a stratospheric um
growth pattern.
My my view is that I thinkorganically we can grow the
business and double it um infive years.

(29:03):
There's no there's no questionthat we we should be able to
double it in five years, if notmore.

SPEAKER_03 (29:07):
Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
Um and if we do that, then I'd be very proud.
Everybody will be happy, um, andthen that's the time at which I
would be looking to exit thebusiness.
We've we've actually beenapproached by private equity a
couple of times, which is quiteinteresting.
It wasn't right for us at atthat particular time.

(29:28):
Um I'm not sure whether privateequity and is is is right for us
and for me in the way that I runrun the business.
Um and it's probably more likelythan a management buyout will be
the route that we would go to,but I wouldn't rule out a trade
partner acquisition or anythinglike that.
And I know the guys are activeadventures and I know that

(29:50):
they've purchased a couple ofreally good companies recently.
So, you know, there areacquirers out there um who are
looking at businesses such asus.

SPEAKER_03 (29:59):
That's fascinating.
I'm so glad we had thisconversation because this is
where, you know, going from ayoung entrepreneur like Nabila
that is still wrapping her headaround this space and someone
like yourself that has thewisdom and knowledge from
running a previous business.
And although you're running anemerging tour operator, you are,
you know, you have that wisdomand you have that business
acumen.
And you also have a deepknowledge.

(30:20):
I the one thing you highlighted,and it's something that comes up
for me, I just want to share aquick story too with our
listeners, too, uh, Will, whenyou mentioned starting with a
customer.
Um, and it's something that I Iwant to just underline that
point because for me in all myyears at the travel corporation,
so Stanley Tolman, who manywould consider to be the Warren
Buffett of multi-day tours, wayahead of his time.

(30:42):
And as he bought these companiesand then he fixed them and
scaled them, and I had theprivilege to help scale these
businesses in different markets.
But one of the things when wewould have our annual business
meetings and we'd spend twoweeks in Switzerland, and each
of the executives would come infor their presentation, in
invariably within 15 minutes,they had started talking about

(31:04):
the competition.
They started kind of pointingto, well, look at the cruise
industry, or that uh, you know,look at the prices and the
discounts that these other guysare doing.
And he would pause, everyone,and he had such a presence in
the room, and he would tell thisstory, which is uh, and I'll
just uh share it very briefly,which is that when he started
his first hotel in South Africa,and the hotel was more of a

(31:27):
restaurant with a few roomsupstairs, his father had one.
He started his own when he wasquite young.
Interestingly, he was actuallygoing to be a pharmacist, so
there you go, Nabila.
Um, and then he moved into uminto tourism.
And when his restaurant firstopened on the opening night,
that he had one customer, and hewas running the front of the

(31:47):
house, and his wife was runningthe restaurant in the back.
And he went upstairs and waslooking at the restaurant across
the street that was lined uparound the corner.
And his dad came in and couldn'tfind him on the main floor and
went upstairs to see him lookingout the window, feeling sorry
for himself.
And um, his dad said to him, Youknow, son, what are you doing up
here?
And he said, I'm looking at thecompetitor across the street,

(32:10):
and I'm trying to figure outwhat is it that they're doing
that I'm not doing to be assuccessful as they are.
And he said, Son, stop standingup here and feeling sorry for
yourself.
Go downstairs and stand next toyour one customer, and tomorrow
night you'll have two and you'llstand next to those two, and the
following night you'll have fourand then you'll have eight.
And it was this like I enjoyedthat story.

(32:33):
He told it every day for twoweeks, and it was just like it
sends chills on my spine sharingit now because it was so
powerful.
It's like a parable.
It was just like, stop tellingme about the competition, tell
me about what you're gonna do toserve the customer.
So I just wanted to share thatbecause it clearly you have that
right.
And I don't I think a lot ofpeople get distracted um and

(32:53):
they lose focus on the customer,especially when they're trying
to rapidly grow a business andthey're chasing different
markets and it all gets far morecomplicated than it needs to.
Bring it back to the consumer.
What they want, stand close tothe customer.

SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
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SPEAKER_03 (35:27):
And now, back to the show.
Let's talk about the customerand let's talk about how this
customer is changing and whatyou're paying attention to.
So I'd love to hear some of yourother observations about what
where you think this industry isheaded in the next five years.

SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
I think that the industry is it it's it's in a
good place.
Um I think that obviously thereare there are uh interesting
things going on in the world atthe moment which which really
hamstring certain regions.
Um, but I think it's a aresilient industry.
I think the general move towardsmore active travel is obviously

(36:03):
a bonus for us.
So we're in the right space umat the right time, and I think
it's gonna develop further tothat in in many different ways.
So I think we've seen a generalrise post-COVID of more
self-guided products.
We're starting to see peoplewanting to have both both

(36:24):
shorter trips um and indeedlonger trips.
So some of our retirees arelooking to travel for 14 days.
There was uh a tour operatorrecently opened up a 150-day um
trip across from one side of theHimalayas to another.
Incredible.
150 days.
That's amazing.

(36:44):
Um so we're not we're not inthat market, yeah.
Um, but but certainly we want toelongate and lengthen the trips
that we're doing, and for theyounger generations is is is
pack in tighter, shorter trips,especially for the North
American market, because as weknow when they travel, they'll
tend to travel for 10 days,yeah, which means five days of
holiday from work.

(37:05):
Um, and Europe and England inparticular is is a is a great
fit because it's you know six,seven hours across the pond, um,
and you can fit in a week's tourand get back to work for the
following Monday.

SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Well, and as we talk aboutconsumer expectations, staying
close to the customer, and thenalso looking at your business,
the operations, and how do youdouble it in the next five
years, one of the areas that weshould definitely cover is
technology, um, becauseobviously that's critical to um
operating your business and alsoserving customers to make sure
that you have not only the rightwebsite but also the right uh

(37:39):
marketing activity or platformsthat you're using for
operations.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour technology stack, if you
will, if like and I'm I'mspecifically asking that
question because I'd love to getyour take on what you build
in-house, what you work withpartners on.

SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
You're probably talking to the least technically
qualified person that you'veyou've interviewed recently.
So this is not my area ofexpertise, but I I I think that
if I'm honest, uh you know, ourour what we're doing from a
technology perspective isgetting better, but it needed
to.
Um, we have to make sure thatthat our operating system is as

(38:15):
best as it can, is is as good asit can be.
Um, and we've recently changedfrom one provider to another
who's looking at the whole ofthe suite of um of everything
from finance through to ops,through to sales, through to you
know, inventory management anditinerary builds and all of that
sort of stuff.
So we've found a provider whichwe think can help us do that.
Um so we're very pleased withthat.

(38:37):
The one area where Iparticularly struggle is AI.
Um and I'm not afraid to admitit.
It's it's it's it's having thetime to think it through and
taking the right advice to makesure that that we're doing the
right thing for our business.
We're actually going to hiresomebody to come in and help us

(38:57):
with our AI stack to make surethat it's it's up to speed and
that we're as much as possiblefuture-proof.

SPEAKER_03 (39:05):
Well, so let's um talking about the stack, let's
talk about reservation, and Iwant to come back to AI quite
quickly as well.
But um, in terms of yourreservation platform, I'm just
genuinely curious um if you'vebuilt that in-house or like you
think you've got off the shelf.

SPEAKER_00 (39:19):
We've got an off-the-shelf um provider.
Um what platform do you use?
Just out of curiosity, if you'rejust signed with Moonstride,
okay.
Um, who are a UK-based umcompany and and we um spent a
long time working out who thebest partner was for us.
No platform is going to give youabsolutely everything, but they
gave us for us, they gave usmore than anybody else.

(39:42):
And we tried to benchmark themagainst three or four different
uh providers.
Um and you know, previously tothat we were with another
platform, a great, verywell-known platform, and we made
some mistakes.
Um I probably wouldn't.
You shouldn't.
Okay, okay.
I don't I don't I don't ifthat's okay.
No, no, of course, I don't wantto but it's it's I don't want to
denigrate anybody.

(40:03):
It was more just I just forlearning and understanding of uh
I mean I I I I think I thinkthat that what happened there
was that we were too small forthem.
Right.
And their system was too big forthem to be able to do that.
Makes sense, that happens, yeah.
And we probably didn't um get weprobably didn't have the talent
in-house at that stage to reallyget to grips with it.

(40:26):
So we were always on the backfoot using the system, and so
our staff were never we probablydidn't train them quite well
enough.
We probably weren't using it toits full capacity, and there was
a sort of a f a flat line of umwe just weren't very satisfied
with it.
Right.
And and but it was as much us asthe platform being is uh too big

(40:49):
for us.

SPEAKER_03 (40:49):
And the ultimately uh the platform you chose, you
mentioned about your criteria.
Just share with us a few of thecriteria.
Obviously, one of them for surehas to be the cost of the
platform and the business model.
Um but what were some of theother factors?
Because one of the things thatwe certainly see is that part of
the reason that most touroperators have had to build
their own uh technology in-houseis that it didn't exist.

(41:09):
Yeah.
Um whereas now there are lots ofdifferent providers out there.

SPEAKER_00 (41:14):
There are a huge amount of different providers
out there, and that they're allthey're all very good, they all
have their different nuances.
And so we looked at everythingfrom finance through to ops,
through to sales, through tomarketing and distribution, and
Moonstride was the one we chosebecause it it captured what we
needed most, which is marketingengine activity, which was ops

(41:35):
activity, and the and thefinance stuff, we've got it
pretty well licked anyway, sothat wasn't so important to us.

SPEAKER_03 (41:41):
Right.
And then other technology, doyou what do you guys use out of
curiosity for uh yournewsletters or emails?
Uh what other platforms do youdeliver?

SPEAKER_00 (41:49):
We're using very simple tools like Mailchimp and
stuff like that, and HubSpot,etc.
So we we're using the rightstuff.
Are we using it to it to um ourbest advantage?
Probably not, because we'regrowing and we're growing
quickly, we're having to get theteam in.
Because we're growing quickly,we need to actually take a step
back and think about what weneed for the next five years.

(42:12):
Uh, and I think lots ofcompanies in our situation go
headlong into stuff withoutnecessarily thinking about the
impact of what you're gonna needlater on down the line.
Um, you know, we're a team of 16at the moment, we'll go to 2025
at the end of next year, sowe're growing quickly.
And what we need to do is bringin expertise, especially in
marketing, especially in ops,uh, to make sure that we're

(42:36):
ahead of the game technologyfrom a technology standpoint.
Really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (42:40):
Yeah, no, I'm I appreciate you sharing that
because that this is where ifyou're a great tour operator, if
you're a tour operator andfocused on the guest, you're not
a technology company.
Oh, completely.
Right?
And it's just one of thechallenges, and that's why I
appreciate you being so uhcandid and transparent in your
answer to say that you know youbut that's that that shouldn't
be like that's it's not yourcore competency.

(43:01):
You have to find the rightpartners to work with and and
make those prudent decisions andum and then get the best out of
it you can.
But the fact is, what makes thedifference is the amazing
experiences they have, theservice you provide, and keeps
them coming back because thesebusinesses were successful
before technology.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
I mean, we're a people-led business, as as as
I've been saying, with a massivefocus on the guides.
That's the company that we wantto be.
We will get better attechnology, we will make sure
it's working for us, but it'sprobably taking longer than it
might do for other peoplebecause I don't have that
expertise.

SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutthe team.
I would love to hear about more,because obviously you've um you
know you've referenced howimportant the team is and like
the future for the team.
Um tell us a little bit of asfar as the the team structure,
if you will.
And again, I want to be mindfulabout you know how much you
share given competition.
So I'm not asking you to shareyour exact passenger numbers and

(43:54):
like, but just for guidance forcompanies that are in a similar
stage in their journey, sure.
Having an operations department,having a marketing department,
or even you know, having peoplethat wear multiple hats.
Tell us a little bit about thestructure of the team at Active
England Tours.

SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
We are trying to.
There were lots of blurredlines.
People's jobs had very fuzzyedges, and we were all doing a
bit of everything.
We've taken a strategicdecision, probably 18 months ago
now, to have people as expertsand stick in their lanes much,
much more because we werefinding that we weren't

(44:31):
necessarily making the rightdecisions because we were too
blurred and we were not we werenot focused enough.
So that's one thing that'schanged dramatically.
Um, we've now got what I wouldcall a fully functioning
management team.
We've got a layer of managementin the business across all
areas.
Um, that's working very, verywell for us.
It's not perfect, um, and but wetry and make as few mistakes as

(44:56):
possible.
Luckily, the people we've gotare great.
Um, our attention is reallyhigh, um, they seem happy, uh,
which is most important, andthat reflects on our um on our
reviews from our customers, thatreflects on on what our
customers say to us about us andwhat we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_03 (45:13):
And the other thing I'd love for you to be able to
share too, Will, is that youknow, from your experience,
given that you've had thiscompany now, like you say, 2017,
eight years, you've got anotherfive-year plan.
Um, I would love to be able toshare some of the knowledge and
insights that would be mostmeaningful to many listeners
that are wrapping their headaround emerging tour operators,
listening to this series ofconversations, trying to figure

(45:35):
out uh what advice they canapply.
So maybe if you wouldn't mindgiving us you know two or three
pieces of advice that was one ofthose things that what would you
have liked to have known in 2017that you now know in 2025 on
your journey that could bevaluable for other listeners
that are you know in this spacebecause obviously it's it is a
community and we learn from eachother.

SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
Yeah, sure.
I think I think be distinct.
Be distinct, yeah.
Have have have something thatsets you apart from everybody
else out there.
Um, it can be overt, it can besubtle, it doesn't really matter
what it is, but have somethingthat you can really hang your
hat on.
Uh I think that's really, reallyimportant.
I think for us it's focusing onthe customer.

(46:18):
That's our that's our that's ourreason for being.
We want to give our customersthe best week of their year.
That's what we say on everysingle trip.
I think one of the other thingsthat we found is, and especially
after going through COVID, um,is that there is always a
solution.
Yeah, take your time and thinkand sit down and think about
what the solution is when you'rewhen you're when you've got a

(46:39):
problem.
Because there is always a wayaround it.
It might not be it might not beimmediate, but there's always a
way around it.
And try and be as calm aspossible.
Um because when something doeshappen, you need to make sure
that you've you've been preparedin the background bit a health
and safety issue or somethinglike that.

(46:59):
Um, and so that actually thefinal thing is be prepared.
Leave no stone unturned, don'tever cut a corner.

SPEAKER_03 (47:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's all great advice, and I think
that uh, you know, based on youobviously continue to follow
that advice because obviouslythat like the be distinct.
One of the um when I firstjoined the travel corporation
and was in that meeting as Idescribed with uh Stanley Tolman
and Brett Tolman, and the um Ihad recently been at G

(47:28):
Adventures and we had gone andlooked at Zappos and their
business model, Zappos had beenacquired by Amazon, and this was
in you know their heyday thatyou know their core values, and
we we learned a lot.
I had bought the executive teamat G Adventures the book uh Blue
Ocean Strategy.
So we'd gone to Las Vegas and welooked at Cirque du Soleil and
just trying to, we even went toDisney and tried to figure out
like the best example of thatone was actually their fast

(47:49):
passes.
And this was just at a pointwhen they're addressing a pain
point.
You know, a lot of startupsaddress pain points and
establish businesses need to dothe same thing.
What is the pain point of yourcustomer?
And we realized one of the painpoints for people in the uh um
adventure space was the idea ofdeposits that were
non-refundable, non-refundabledeposits.
People hated the fact it wasalmost like the rewind fee of um

(48:10):
a blockbuster.
And so we came up with this ideaof lifetime deposits.
We can't give the money backbecause we have, you know, we'd
be exposed with costs that wehave to incur with securing, you
know, the hotels and everythingelse.
But we could hold on to thosefunds to make sure they come
back and book with us again asopposed to losing them.
And that was a real game changerfor that business, and now it's
become an industry standardpractice.
And so this is where things arecontinuously evolving.

(48:31):
But the one part that youmentioned will be distinct, I
had called out um learning fromZappos's example, is create a
differentiator, it's not price.
And I know Stanley Tolman thatreally resonated with him in
that moment, and that's what Ilearned, and I mentioned that in
that meeting, and he was hisresponse was exactly like, and
uh it felt it was a great momentfor me in my career because it

(48:51):
was one of those, like, yeah,what he said, like that's what
you need to do is like asopposed to you know just
focusing on discounts um and thelowest common denominator, it's
like that's everyone's gonnalose in that game.
So, how do you create something?
Like an insight vacations is agood example of that.
It was like business classseating, um, centrally located
hotels, you know, four and fivestar, you know, sell the

(49:13):
difference was what uh he woulduse.
It was like, how do you sell thedifference?
So I really like that youmentioned that because I've seen
that from my experiences to beone of the most successful ways
to grow a tour operator, andclearly you know that, and
you're on that journey.
So uh I've thoroughly enjoyedthis conversation, Will.
I want to make sure that all ofour listeners can learn more
about Active England Tours topartner with you, to take one of

(49:35):
your trips.
Um, so please let all of ourlisteners know how best to
connect with you and the team.
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (49:40):
The best way is probably through the website at
activeenglandtours.com.
That's the best way to get holdof us.

SPEAKER_03 (49:45):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you for being a partof the series.
Thank you for being a supporterof our travel trends podcast.
I always look forward to seeingyou, and I'm so glad that we
actually got a chance to recordthis together live.
It always makes a difference.
I'm sure our listeners picked upon that as well.
And I certainly look forward toseeing your continuous success
over the next five years and uha glorious exit that works out

(50:06):
well for you and the team.

SPEAKER_00 (50:07):
My pleasure.
Thanks so much, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 (50:11):
Well, thanks everyone for joining us on this
emerging multi-day tour seriesthat I've had the uh pleasure to
put together, but I've also beenable to collaborate uh with my
friend and colleague, AlexReagan, who runs Torsetta, who
kindly sponsored this series.
And I wanted to bring him in atthe end since he's developed a
real expertise in this space,and you've heard about Torsetta
over the course of the series,and I wanted you to be able to

(50:31):
meet him directly for yourself.
Uh, and I had a few questionsthat I wanted to ask him.
So, Alex, welcome back to TravelTrends.
I know you're on an arrivalepisode for the first time, so
this is officially a welcomeback, but thanks so much for
joining us.

SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
Hello, Dan.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
And we are very happy to sponsorthis great um episode and the
great series and your podcast ingeneral.
Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_03 (50:52):
Yeah, thanks, Alex.
I mean, uh obviously we've beenfriends for a while now, and you
have you know your uh corebusiness.
You know, you're based inAmsterdam, and um we've known
each other over the last coupleof years and see each other
regularly at conferences, andyou've been working on all these
different travel applications,and then you developed Torsetta.
And I was excited for youbecause you know my background
is multi-day, and obviously youcame to the arrival event and

(51:14):
spoke on stage at multi-day.
Uh, but I'd love for people tohear on your own words about why
you actually built thisplatform.
So tell everyone a little bitmore in your your in your own
words about Torsetta.

SPEAKER_01 (51:24):
Yeah, sure.
So besides Torsetta, I also rananother company called Zoftify.
We built custom software fortravel companies.
And most of our companies, it itwas quite accidental, honestly.
So most of our companies weremulti-day tour operators.
And after building five or sixdifferent booking platforms for
specifically for multidataoperators, we figure out that

(51:48):
the functionalities, theworkflows, the experience is
very similar.
And we decided to build our propour product out of it because
not many tour operators canafford building something from
scratch because it's timeconsuming and it's expensive.
Let's be honest about it.
So we decided to build our ownplatform where we could

(52:10):
distribute this as a SaaSplatform or as our as a platform
as a service model for larger uhlarger companies and provide
pretty much the same level ofexperience when it comes to
booking, operations, andcustomer experience as if it was
a custom development, verysimilar.
So that's how we decided tobuild our own product, Rosetta.

(52:34):
Uh we have already onboarded uha couple of really strong tour
operators who use our platformday-to-day on a day-to-day
basis.
We received very positivefeedback from many, many
companies, primarily fromadventure tour operators, from
motorcoach tour operators, andand others.
And yeah, we we continue uh uhimprove the platform.

(52:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (52:58):
No, it's great.
I appreciate giving thatcontext.
I think you know the threeoperators that we spoke to over
the course of this series gaveeveryone kind of a good idea of
emerging tour operators.
Obviously, we started off withNabila, who you know very well
because you know she you know,she's such a fascinating story.
I really want to make sureeveryone goes back and listens
to that episode.
If you haven't already, I meanshe's a pharmacist, turned
influencer, turned touroperator, and she reached out to

(53:21):
Alex and has been using the toursetup platform.
I actually thought she's theideal person to profile that is
someone that that is realizingjust how much growth there is in
this category, but reallydoesn't have a great grasp of
the overall travel industry, andthat's okay.
She's very smart and she'sgrowing her business rapidly and
obviously working with you.
Um so I do have a couplequestions about her, but also

(53:41):
that we heard from CrookedCompass, we heard from Will over
at Active England Tour.
So we really had a global viewbecause we had an American
focused on South Asia, we had uhan Australian focused on like
truly intrepid destinations, um,and then we had Will who is
focused on uh the UK, of course.
So I guess the uh you know theglobal nature of this business

(54:03):
is it's you know it is growing,it is a fast-growing category.
Tell us a little bit about uhNabila from your point of view,
because I found her sofascinating and such an
interesting interview, andobviously you knew her before I
did.
So, how did you guys connect?
And is she a kind of a goodexample of some of the clients
you're seeing embracing yourplatform?

SPEAKER_01 (54:20):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
The funny thing, she connectedus um probably several years ago
when they were just startingout.
Uh, and that wasn't for Torsettain particular, so she reached
out to us as an agency.
She wanted to build a platformbased on a couple of case
studies we listed as an agencyuh with other operators of a

(54:43):
similar setting, but probably alittle bit bigger.
And that time they decided to gowith something else.
Um, I honestly don't know whatit was at, but that was that was
something else, not us.
And then the year after, shediscovered that she discovered
Torsetta.
I probably there were ads orsome of the references we we got

(55:04):
online, and she decided to reachout.
She was actually surprised thatwe are the same company.
So she was a little bit confusedbecause initially she spoke to
Zoftify and now it's Torsettaand um pretty much the same, the
same company, the same teambehind it.
And we discovered that ourplatform would take all of her
boxes because she tried three orfour other platforms where she

(55:27):
was promised to get everythingshe needed, but unfortunately,
those platforms were not builtfor these type of companies.
And our platform wouldspecifically cover everything
multidate operator with schedulegroup tours and certain
allotments and uh flexible datesneed.

(55:49):
And this is this is somethingthis is something that was
fascinating because again, likeinitially, um, you know, as we
started building Torsetta, thatwas the that was a part of the
agency, and now we have aproduct, and we start seeing
people who reached out to usinitially as you know to build
that their platform in a customway, and now they are happy, um

(56:11):
happy to use our platform whenwhen it's already live.
So, yeah, that's that's that'sour story.
And speaking of Nabil as well, Ithink she has a very, very, very
fascinating business overallbecause um she doesn't have a
lot of travel experience, butshe she's extremely she's a
extremely motivated person.
So they run the tourists, theydo care about travelers a lot,

(56:35):
they put a lot of effort intocreating and curating every
single experience, and theyobviously needed the platform
that would support uh all acrossthe board because again, like
they need a lot of automation,they they want to simplify their
operations, they want to have aclear communication strategy
with their travelers, and thisis what Rosetta is primarily

(56:57):
about, because we have a lot ofuh options for tour operators to
connect, engage, nurture,re-engage, and turn their
travelers into repeat guests andrepeat passengers and repeat
travelers for their business.
So lowering their customeracquisition costs, improving
customer satisfactions, and andall of that, right?

(57:19):
So this is this is our maingoal, and this is something that
we were happily we were able tohelp Nabil with.
And I'm extremely proud of thiscase study that you know that we
have with her, of course.

SPEAKER_03 (57:32):
For sure.
I mean, I think when I look atthe numbers and you speak to
private equity firms that areinterested in this space, I
mean, tour operators areexpected to see, especially
multi-day tour operators, I'mtalking about specifically, uh,
a 20% to 30% growth rate everyyear for the next five years,
which the reason they're heavilyinvesting in this space is
because that means you candouble your money in five years.

(57:53):
And it's a relatively safe betbecause of the aging uh
demographic with retirees.
And as we heard from Will, hisand almost his entire audience
is retired retirees.
And so it's a very differentaudience than when we started
with Nabila, where we have theyounger generation who are also
deciding to spend all of theirdisposable income on travel.
And it's so you kind of got thegrowth from multiple different

(58:15):
categories, and it's on a globalscale, which I think people got
the sense of from this series.
So I'm very excited for you andwhere you've gotten this
business to.
I think it's you know, it almostis uh ground zero for multi-day
tour tech to be able to reallycapture this industry and this
space.
Um, I'd love if you wouldn'tmind just sharing a couple of
details about Tor Seta thatwould be interesting with our

(58:37):
audience for companies that areconsidering partnering with you,
since you're you know kindenough to sponsor this series,
and obviously we are genuinelyuh friends and colleagues as
well.
And I, you know, I want to seeyou succeed, so that's you know
very sincere.
And I I have a great respect forwhat you've built already
because obviously you and I havebeen uh collaborating closely
together.
I've been giving you feedback,I've been sharing it with
colleagues, and I've so telleveryone two or three things

(58:59):
about the platform that theyshould know that is unique about
Torsetta and you know whatyou've been building.

SPEAKER_01 (59:04):
Yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for this
opportunity as well.
So, Torsetta is the platformthat would support your tour
company across different partsof the traveler journey.
We even have our own internalmethodology, we call it the
Torsetta flywheel, and thisexplains how the traveler moves

(59:27):
from an unaware visitor on yourwebsite to a loyal customer who
books with you over and overagain.
So Torsetta powers not just thebooking process, not just the
operations, not just the pretrip or on trip experience, are
but all of those stages in oneplatform.

(59:49):
So initially, you got a visitoron a website, they open
Torsetta, they they look throughthe descriptions, they look
through different information ordata.
Points you listed in there, thenthey could become your lead by
submitting a form or byrequesting a brochure, asking
you a question.
Then all of that informationgets recorded in the system so

(01:00:12):
that you can later automate thenurturing process with them.
For example, if they'reinterested in a particular tour
to Morocco, then you can sendthem four or five different
email follow-ups explaining whythey might want to go with you
to Morocco.
Or they could be they couldexplore some of the photos or

(01:00:32):
videos from your previous trips,or you might just simply give
them a discount after, let'ssay, four weeks of nurturing
them if you clearly see that youdon't have enough places uh
booked uh in advance.
So Torsetta powers at all.
And uh our platform is widelabel as well, so it feels
extremely relevant to yourtravelers, so it's not gonna be

(01:00:57):
a standalone system.
We are not a marketplace, soeverything when it comes to
traveler data, tourist data, andand and payments, of course,
sits in your dedicated instance,meaning this is your data,
right?
So this is not our data, and wewe don't use it in any way.

(01:01:18):
And and lastly, we support uhdifferent ways of communicating
and sending out reminders,transactional emails, and
support various payment options.
So our platform is veryscalable.
And if you have a very specificrequest, you can always reach

(01:01:38):
out to our team and we'll behappy to make sure that you get
the best out of the platform.
And this is this is how we work,this is how we operate a
business.
That's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:48):
I'm really I'm really excited for where you've
gotten to with this business andalso you know the fact you're
rolling it out at conferences.
I mean, we talked about arrival.
I know you're gonna be at uhworld travel market, which
depending on people have whenthey've listened to this, uh,
may have already happened.
But nevertheless, I know you'regonna be at focus right, so that
might be coming up.
But you've got a lot ofconferences planned.

(01:02:08):
I want to make sure that peoplecan connect with you, follow up,
get more details, and obviously,thanks again, uh Alex, for our
collaboration for sponsoringthis series.
But let's finish with makingsure that anyone who's been
inspired over the last threeepisodes is intrigued to uh
learn more about Torsetta knowswhere to find you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
You can always go toTorsetta.com uh to to to learn
more about our software.
Then you can reach out to me uhon on LinkedIn.
Uh that's Alex Raggin.
You can find me.
You can easily find me there.
If you will be attending WTM orany of those conferences, I will
be happy to connect you with youin person.

(01:02:45):
Just reach out and we can booksome some time there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:48):
Yeah.
Thanks again, Alex.
Wishing you every success in theyear ahead.
I look forward to seeing youagain at the next conference.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:55):
Thanks again for joining us on this special
three-part series as we lookedat the world of emerging tour
operators, starting off withNabila from A Dose of Travel in
the last week when we spoke toLisa from Crooked Compass and
today's conversation with WillCannes from Active England
Tours.
I look forward to continuingthese conversations in season
seven and onwards, since it'ssuch an important part of this

(01:03:16):
industry.
And I just wanted to say aspecial thanks again to Alex and
the team at TorSeta.com forsponsoring this series.
Now, our season continues nextweek.
We go back to our captains ofindustry, and we'll be hearing
from the first CEO of Expedia,Eric Blatchford.
I had a chance to record livewith him, and he offers so much

(01:03:38):
advice for entrepreneurs, forindustry executives.
There's a lot that many of ourlisteners will be able to learn
from Eric directly.
And so I look forward tobringing you that conversation.
And then we still have theloyalty series, a sustainability
and aviation in store for seasonsix.
So make sure you are registeredon the streaming platform of
your choice to be notified whennew episodes go live.

(01:04:01):
Thanks again for joining thisweek.
Until next week, safe travels.