Event Spotlight: Adventure Travel World Summit 2025

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_11 (00:07):
Honestly, I'm not hopeful.
I don't even like the word hope.
Because it implies a kind of alethargy or a kind of people ask
me, Oh, do you have hope?
And I know what they're askingme.
If I have hope, then they canrest.
I don't like that.
I think we have to fight forhope.

(00:28):
You hope is a muscle.
And you don't deserve to havehope unless you're getting out
of bed every day and doingsomething toward your future.
You're not abdicating yourfuture and the future of all
life.

SPEAKER_16 (00:50):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to a very special event
spotlight of Travel Trends.
This is your host, DanChristian.
All of these conversations wererecorded live in Puerto Natales,
Chile, in October of 2025 at theAdventure Travel World Summit,
which is the Adventure Traveland Trade Association's annual
conference.
I just wanted to start byacknowledging Shannon and the
team at ATTA for bringing TravelTrends back to ATWS and making

(01:15):
us your official podcastpartner.
Now many of our listeners knowthat we had the opportunity to
attend for the very first timein Panama last year.
And now I fully understand whyso many Chileans were
celebrating their selection atthe conference, since I have the
greatest respect for the deepbeauty of this country now and
its people.
And I understand why you wantedto show the world of adventure

(01:37):
travel just how amazing thisregion of the world is.
I also now know what forestbathing is, but I'll come back
to that in a moment.
I just wanted to highlight justwhat makes ATTA so special is
the fact that they offer thisopportunity for a PSA, a
pre-summit adventure.
I didn't have the opportunity toattend last year, but I
interviewed so many people inour very first spotlight episode

(01:59):
that ran cycling tours and weretelling me how fast growing this
category is, given there's moreactive retirees as one factor,
but also the introduction ofe-bikes, which allow more people
to join, like myself, and italso opens up new routes with
longer distances.
And I signed up right away whenit was announced that I could
join the five-day pre-summitadventure.

(02:21):
And I chose a cycling tripthrough the beautiful Isen
region.
I ended up having one of themost amazing trips I've ever
experienced in my life.
We toured with a company calledCiclo Austral, which is run by a
husband and wife team, Fernandoand Claudia, who were both on
the trip and ensured everyonehad the most exceptional time.
I highly recommend them.
But there were about 12 cycliststhat joined us from Europe, the

(02:42):
USA, and Colombia.
And I was the only one that wasman enough to ride an e-bike.
And I was actually the onlyperson to arrive not having
clip-on shoes.
And Claudia reassured me that Iwould be fine.
And ultimately, I'm glad thatshe did because I had the most
extraordinary experience, but Idefinitely showed up like that
kid to high school gym classthat didn't have shoes, that

(03:02):
didn't have shorts.
And the one thing I definitelyrealized here I'm going to give
you two tips for anyone elsethat is going to be similarly
inspired like me after listeningto this episode to take a
cycling trip.
And if you're going to jump onan e-bike, the first thing that
you definitely need to know ispadded shorts are a must.
I was the only person notwearing padded shorts, and I
walked like a cowboy for thefirst couple of days, and I even

(03:23):
consider putting like rolled upsocks in my shorts, and I warned
other cyclists that they may befalling out on the road.
Didn't need them, but the onething I did do, and this is
another tip, don't use the fullpower mode the entire time.
You'll find out why.
Because there's lots of hills,and if it's a cold day, there's
a chance that you may run low onyour battery and you may end up
having to walk for longer thanyou expected, or figure a way to

(03:43):
cycle with a 25 kilogram bike uphills.
Nevertheless, it was actually abig highlight of my trip.
So at the end of the day, evenif that does happen to you, I'm
sure you're still going to havean extraordinary time.
But best to be avoided.
The one highlight of having donethat, though, is that we were
making record time on prettymuch every day because I was
literally like the rabbit at thefront of a greyhound track where

(04:03):
all the other dogs were tryingto catch up, and I was actually
passing people regularly on theuphill.
And that part definitely did notget old.
But on this episode, you'reactually going to hear from two
other people that were on thetour.
You're going to hear from Ninaand Kayla, who will share some
tales from the adventures thatwe had that week.
You won't hear from Steve, butevery trip has a Steve or an
Allen, and they are an importantpart of the mix.

(04:24):
We had so many great laughs thatweek.
And I also discovered my newfavorite band right at the end
of the trip, which is Las Jivas.
That's J-A-I-V-A-S, if you wantto look it up on Spotify.
But you can also check out thehighlights from my trip on my
Instagram at DC Trips.
And this is where a pre-summitadventure becomes such an
important part of the entireATWS experience because you

(04:47):
arrive at the conference withyour tribe and you've had a
shared experience in adestination that connects you.
And it's just so powerful.
You're actually going to hearhow Shannon Stoll went to
Rapanue, the Easter Islands.
And I ask each of our guests whodid the pre-summit adventures
where they went.
But I can't wait for you to meetnot only Nina and Kyla, but
you're also going to meetClaudia as well.

(05:08):
We're going to have her join usfor the end of this episode.
So you can hear some of thetales from this trip that we're
on and hopefully be inspired totake a trip like that yourself
to the heart of Patagonia.
And for those of you who don'tget to do the full pre-trip, the
ATTA has actually set up day twoof their conference as a day of
adventure.
So everyone else at least has aday to go out and see the

(05:30):
penguins, cougars, they can dohikes, they can visit indigenous
villages.
So no matter when you arrive,you at least have the
opportunity to have one full dayin the destination before the
conference kicks off.
And then we had three daysconnecting and learning from
each other.
And I had the privilege to hosta panel on ATTA success stories.
And you'll hear from twoco-founders of a company called

(05:51):
Godwana, who are based inBrazil, that joined us for that
session.
You're also going to hear fromAzaz, who gave an amazing
keynote speech.
And we're going to have RobHolmes back, the award-winning
filmmaker.
We also welcome back GabbyStoll, who was taking on a new
role over at Bannekin.
We'll meet someone new withIsabel Hoffman, who runs a bike
touring company out ofAustralia.

(06:12):
And then we'll finish withClaudia and also Shannon Stoll.
But this entire episode startswith the most extraordinary love
story, and that is betweenChristine Tompkins and Douglas
Tompkins.
Now, Christine Tompkins was thevery first CEO of Patagonia, the
clothing company.
She worked there for 25 yearsand 18 as the CEO.

(06:32):
And she met and married DouglasTompkins, who is the founder of
the North Face and Espritclothing.
Now, he left the business worldin 1990 to dedicate his life to
environmental activism.
And between the two of them,they donated land to create
national parks and this entireconcept of rewilding.
They have Rewilding Chile andRewilding Argentina.

(06:53):
And we're actually going tostart off by speaking to the
executive director of RewildingChile, Carolina, who worked with
Douglas from the earliest daysas his executive assistant.
So she knows the TompkinsConservation Foundation so well.
So we set the stage with ourconversation with Carolina, and
then we bring in Christine totalk about the future.

(07:16):
And if you listen to her TEDTalk, which is incredibly
powerful, it was recorded in2024 in Vancouver.
I highly recommend you taking 12minutes right after this and
watching Christine, in her ownwords, tell her remarkable story
and the well-deserved applauseand standing ovation she
receives for everything her andDouglas accomplished in their

(07:37):
lifetime.
And one of the most powerfulphrases is you're not thinking
big enough if you're trying toaccomplish everything in your
lifetime.
It should go beyond yourlifetime.
And clearly that is the casewith Douglas since he tragically
passed away in a kayakingaccident back in 2015.
And Christine continues to leadthe charge with the Tompkins
Conservation Foundation.

(07:59):
And the team is doing so manyincredible projects.
And I strongly encourage you toalso look at the film dedicated
to Doug's life, Wildlife, whichwas by National Geographic.
You can find it on Disney Plus,and you can follow Christine's
story.
It is so incredibly inspiring,and it was such a huge honor to
have the opportunity to sit downand speak to her, as you'll hear

(08:21):
shortly.
So I hope you enjoy all of theseamazing conversations.
Thank you again for joining us.
I cannot wait to get back toPatagonia.
I look forward to my nextcycling trip, and I hope you
join us on a trip in the future.
Now, let's kick things off withCarolina from Rewilding Chile.

(08:42):
Hello, everyone, and welcome toa live recording here in Porta
Natales, Chile, at theAdventure, Travel, and Trade
Association conference.
I am so thrilled to be here andkick off this special event
spotlight with two extraordinaryindividuals that I have the
pleasure to speak to to open upthis series.
And my first guest is theexecutive director of the and

(09:06):
I'm gonna get this right.
Rewilding Chile.

SPEAKER_10 (09:08):
Rewilding the Tompkins Conservation Legacy
Organization in Chile, RewildingChile.
Yes.

SPEAKER_16 (09:14):
And my uh special guest, the executive director,
is Carolina Morgado.

SPEAKER_18 (09:19):
Morgado.
Exactly.
So great to meet you, Carolina.
Thank you for making time forthis conversation.
Yes, I am working on my Spanish.

SPEAKER_16 (09:28):
Um, but our listeners are from all around
the world, and I want them toknow the incredible story of uh
the Tompkins conservation.
And maybe let's start therebecause I want to talk about
your incredible background aswell, since you've been with the
organization for 30 years.
Uh but for all of our globallisteners, tell us about the
Tompkins Conservation first, andthen we'll talk about rewilding
Chile.

SPEAKER_10 (09:48):
Of course.
Tompkins Conservation, it's anorganization um that started in
the United States, and it wasformed by Kristen Tompkins,
former CEO of Patagonia for 20years, Patagonia Inc., the
company, and then DouglasTompkins, who was the founder of
the North Face Company when hewas very young.
But then after the Spree theCorp company, and uh both of

(10:09):
them decided to um sell theirshares and invest everything in
to pay the rent for living inthis planet.
And in Chile and Argentina, weare so lucky that they decided
to come and focus in creatingnational parks and rewilding
efforts in Chile and Argentina.

SPEAKER_16 (10:28):
And this is where it's one of the most incredible
stories in travel and certainlyin conservation.
Sustainability, we've focused onthat in many of our episodes.
We've had sustainability uhseries in season six, but and
even Shannon Stoll, who's partof this uh podcast as well, the
special event spotlight, wefocused on sustainability.
But when you look at the workthat your organization has done

(10:50):
and the incredible backstory, itis so remarkable.
And I want so let's let's talkabout some of the incredible
work that you uh Christine andthe team have brought to life.
So the tell us a little bitabout the the time of the
organization, around 1990.

SPEAKER_10 (11:05):
And they uh it started in Chile in 1992, and
then after you know, a few yearslater, like maybe five to seven
years later, it started inArgentina.
So far, we have protected incollaboration with both
countries, 15 national parks,and um and we have done
extensive rewilding projects.
We work with many, many speciesthat are either on the verge of

(11:28):
extinction or species that wehave reintroduced in those
territories.

SPEAKER_16 (11:32):
And just so everyone can follow along, since so many
of our listeners do multitaskwhile they're listening to our
podcast, it's TompkinsConservation, so
T-O-M-P-K-I-N-S, TompkinsConservation.org.
And one of the statements you'llinstantly be greeting with is
that we believe the world can bemore wild, beautiful, and
equitable.
One of the things that stood outto me about that is equitable.

(11:53):
Wild and beautiful are certainlytwo ways to explain Patagonia.
And I know that's very much coreto the Patagonia brand, that
obviously Christine was thefirst CEO of, and we'll speak to
her in a moment.
But when you think aboutTompkins conservation, that word
equitable, to try and protectthese forests, these create
national parks, uh species.
Tell us a little bit more aboutwhat that word means to your

(12:14):
organization.

SPEAKER_10 (12:15):
Well, I think that Chris can explain you from
Tompkins conservation point ofview, but from us as legacy
organizations of TompkinsConservation, we define
equitable because we feel thatwe have the same rights as all
living species in this planet,and we all deserve to thrive,
and we do all the for effortspossible to give the non-human

(12:37):
world that possibility.

SPEAKER_16 (12:39):
And that that's the part that really shows me
because I've not seen that useof wording in other
organizations, and I thoughtthat was particularly special.
So that but now when we look atthe work that you have done,
obviously you had two incrediblefounders that uh have brought a
lot of recognition and clearlythe investment, but you've had
to work with the government,you've had to work with so many
different organizations.

(13:00):
I want to understand what'sactually involved in protecting
a parkland and creating anational park.

SPEAKER_10 (13:06):
Well no, what is involved is getting to know your
territory, and we have focusedall of our work in Chilean
Patagonia, that is to say, fromPuerto Mont to Cape Horn, which
is Chile and Patagonia, and wehave mapped out this territory
identifying big-scale landopportunities, but also that
those big land scaleopportunities are sometimes

(13:26):
adjacent to public lands.
And when we have that figuredout and when we are able to buy
a big-scale property, we presentto the current administration
the possibility of collaboratingand creating a national park.
And why a national park?
Because we think uh we seeconservation, long-term
conservation on the public handsmore than private hands, and

(13:48):
then also because um we canprotect so much more and and we
can give the opportunity for somany more people to connect with
those territories when they'rein the public hands.

SPEAKER_16 (14:00):
And let's look at one specific example because we
had the privilege to be able toactually go to uh Torres Delpine
on our very first welcomingnight, which is a beautiful uh
national park.
And so tell us a little bitabout that particular national
park and how that came to be andthe work that you have done
there.

SPEAKER_10 (14:16):
Well, that particular national park, which
is super emblematic of Chile,and and it's you know, it's like
the most iconic park uh in Chilebecause I think because
foreigners have put uh Torresdel Paine in the public eye,
really, visiting it from so manyyears.
Um the the the uh more uh whenit relates to our work, it's

(14:39):
important to understand thatTorres del Pine was also created
um with the donation of uh anItalian, with a uh of part of
the property when an Italian.
So we use that a lot of it as asan inspiration because in the
other seven parks we have helpedcreate, we have always donated
the land so the land can go backto the public hands of Chile and
to all Chileans.

SPEAKER_16 (15:00):
That's it's such an incredible story, and I want to
talk about some of the otherprojects as well.
The one thing I just wanted togo back to when you mentioned
about Douglas Tompkins andknowing we're gonna speak to
Christine in a moment.
So, Douglas, you worked closelywith her in the beginning, and I
I understand too, uh Carolina,that you were his executive
assistant to begin with.

SPEAKER_10 (15:16):
Yes, yes, I was his executive assistant, and many
more things enjoyed.

SPEAKER_16 (15:20):
Clearly.
And I so I always love when Iget a chance to speak to someone
that is so core to the brand,that's been there since the very
beginning, and you're nowobviously the executive
director, a well-deserved rolegiven everything you've
accomplished with thisorganization.
But what if we take us uh backto the foundation with Douglas?
Uh, because I would love tocover that with you and then uh
speak to Christine about herrole because obviously Douglas

(15:42):
sadly passed away 10 years agoin 2015 uh in a kayaking uh
accident, quite unfortunate.
Um, but he was an incredibleadventure.
As you mentioned, he foundedEspree, he founded the North
Face, and uh I love what youjust described, which was the
idea that he sold off all hisbusiness interests and he
dedicated himself toconservation and this idea that
I'm no longer gonna liverent-free on the planet.

SPEAKER_15 (16:04):
Um tell us a little bit more about him.
I know there's a Netflixdocumentary that people can look
up called Wildlife.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutmore about Douglas and those
early days working with him.

SPEAKER_10 (16:14):
Yes.
Well, Douglas was an incrediblevisionary with an intelligence
superior to most of us normalhuman beings.

SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (16:23):
And uh that also had an incredible sense of ethics,
not only with the land, or moreover with the land, but also
with every human he worked with.
Um he was uh you know, he waslike a jazz player because he
made it.
I mean he didn't come here witha master plan.
So w whatever the decisions weremade were made with an

(16:47):
incredible flexibility accordingto the circumstances and to the
opportunities and possibilities.
So I think that he had atranscendent, he made
transcendent choices in his lifeto create national parks, you
know, not only to protect theland, but you know, help
humanity, help uh all of us andhelp all the non-human world

(17:12):
thrive.
And uh he did it with the mostuh generous uh possibility that
invest all his fortune in afoundation that could promote.
And he ended up with Chris, ofcourse, giving the biggest land
donation a h you know a personhas given in this world to a
state.

SPEAKER_16 (17:32):
Yeah, well it's interesting when he arrived here
in 1990 and ultimately dedicatedhis the rest of his life to uh
sustainability and conservationefforts and environmental
activism here in Patagonia, itwas so interesting that the
timing of his arrival inPatagonia coincided with
Christine coming here from theUS, where she was the first CEO

(17:53):
of Patagonia.
And I've listened to some of uhher TED talk, uh an amazing
podcast that she did with REI.
Um, and she talked about thefact that it really was uh
almost like a miracle that theidea that this this dream she
couldn't imagine it any otherway.
She fell in love with Patagoniaand she fell in love with
Douglas.

SPEAKER_18 (18:12):
So how did that that's why I'm so keen to ask
you, but having worked withDouglas and um so what was the
sequence of events?

SPEAKER_16 (18:18):
They both arrived here in Patagonia.

SPEAKER_10 (18:20):
No, Dallas has come to Chile uh since very young, so
he was very connected to Chilebecause he came to ski.
You know, he was a class fivekayaker, mountaineer, climber,
he did the ascent of uh ElChalten um El Chalten, you know,
the emblematic.
Of course, yes, yes, yes.
I forgot the name right now.
But yeah.

(18:40):
So anyway, so so he was veryconnected to Chile and
Argentinian Patagonia.
So when he decided where to go,he thought of our country.
Aren't we so lucky?
You know, he came here and umwell, he ran into Chris, but
they they both come from thesmall climbing world, so so they
know each other, you know.
They Doug's best friends withIvonne Schonard was best

(19:01):
friends, so so Chris knew him,but they ran into each other in
Calafate by accident in one ofDoug's visits, and Chris was
visiting, yeah, and then I guessthey fell in love.
And uh, and then they soonenough Doug was already kind of
living in Chile and Chris movedto Chile.
And um, and we Chileans, youknow, we honor them, and we feel

(19:22):
so fortunate that they came hereand really changed the culture
and changed the way we can lookat nature.

SPEAKER_16 (19:29):
Yeah, it's amazing.
There's uh there's a company inCanada called Roots, and it
actually was founded by twoAmericans that came to Canada
for their summer cottage uhholidays and discovered how
beautiful it was, and it helpedus understand how special it
was.
So it's sometimes it takessomeone coming into a new place
and being able to help everyonerealize just how truly special
it is, and then make sure thatyou're able to protect it.

(19:52):
So this is where Douglas was sofar ahead of his time.
Yes.
Tell us about some of those uhearly years.
Obviously, you had the he hadthe vision, he had the funding,
but I'm sure there were a numberof challenges to really well I
think that as you say, when youhave the vision and when you
have when you have the funds,you can really change the face

(20:13):
of a territory.

SPEAKER_10 (20:14):
And that is what I find it exceptional with the
work of Tag and Chris in Chile,how we can look at Patagonia
today.
But of course the 90s was themost controversial times and you
had to have like a pretty thickskin to be able to go through
those tough times in Chile.
But I think Dad would say itthat way too, that he wouldn't
skip one of those problemsbecause those situations, those

(20:38):
controversies really made usChileans think, which side are
you, Mr.
President?
Or you know, which side is thesociety taking in terms of the
protection of nature coming froma country that is totally based
on destructive economy.
So, you know, it was reallytough and it was really hard,

(20:59):
and they were we were accused ofso many things, but I think that
motivated to create it like theintellectual infrastructure of
what conservation really meansand how it's needed.
Yeah, not only in Chile, buteverywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_16 (21:13):
Well, one of the things I loved that Carolina was
sharing with me just as we werestarting to chat and get to know
each other before we startedrecording, was some of the very
early initiatives that you hadwith some of like honey and some
of the products that you werecultivating.
And I love this part of thestory because you know you can
see the national parks, themarine parks that I want to ask
you about as well that you'vebeen able to protect, and the
incredible amount of land isjust extraordinary.

(21:33):
And I obviously you've you knowthe success has been built over
the time.
Um, but tell us about some ofthose uh the smaller projects
that helped you guys getstarted.

SPEAKER_10 (21:42):
Yeah, because when you think about national parks
or private parks or you knowprotected areas, uh it's not
only about the land, it's aboutthe people, the people that live
around them.
And then you we made a lot ofefforts in the beginning.
First of all, because Pumalinwas uh at that time in one of
the poorest provinces of Chile,the Balena province.

(22:03):
So we wanted to generate handlabor because that would assure
people people's permanence.
You know, for years and years wehave we have seen migration of
the rural area to the biggercities because of lack of
opportunities.
So we wanted to create anopportunity.
Meanwhile, we created the parkthrough conservation tourism
that people would remain thereor and there would be, you know,

(22:24):
like an economic uh link betweenthe community and the park
because of visitation.
But meanwhile, we were creatingthe parks.
We developed all of these f umfarms that were not part of the
conservation project but werepart of the vision.
And those farms we did sheep,and with the ship we did wool,
and then we had an extensivenetwork of handcraft people,

(22:45):
women, working from their house,feeling proud about you know
their work and being able tosell those products and remain
in their houses in theirterritory.
And we did honey and gems andyou know, you name it, we did
all kinds of stuff.
Um and we did folk festivals forpeople to feel proud about the
culture.
So that's the part not seeingabout creating the love for your

(23:08):
own territory, the love for yourculture, because you need that
link to appreciate your naturalpatrimony, and then you're gonna
become the first line of thisdefense of that territory for
sure.

SPEAKER_16 (23:20):
For sure.
And I love that you point outthe folk festivals, the music
and community.
Uh when we were at Torres delPine, we had the most incredible
Chilean music experience withLos Javas.
Los Jaivas.
Yes.
The most incredible experiencewith Los Jaivas.
And they're they're poets,they're right.
They're they're lyrics that Iwas trying to translate into
English to understand, and I wasplaying it back the next day

(23:40):
because I enjoyed the music somuch, but it's so connected to
the land, the people, and thehistory of Chile.
So it's amazing that part ofthis you brought them in to be
here as well.

SPEAKER_10 (23:49):
Yeah, no, that was exceptional.

SPEAKER_16 (23:51):
Now let's talk about where Tompkins Conservation
stands today and some of the newinitiatives that you're
planning.
I mean, you've got a fantasticteam.
Um so tell us about and I alsowant to make sure our listeners,
if they I want them all to chattravel to Chile and have uh the
experience that I've had herethis week.
It is such a special place inthe world.
Um, but tell us about some ofthe projects and then I really

(24:12):
want to know how more people canget involved.

SPEAKER_10 (24:14):
Of course.
So 10 years ago when Doug passedaway, Chris um asked ourselves,
you know, what if I pass awayreally suddenly?
So I want to create reallystrong teams.
So he told us and theArgentines, you guys have to go
independent.
And I was a real shock.
But you know, I so appreciate itright now what it takes, you
know, to be leading a project ina country.

(24:35):
So we went, so Chris wanted, youknow, local teams to be totally
in charge, make our ownmistakes, but be strong for when
she's not here.
So we became independent,rewilding as rewilding Argentina
and rewilding Chile.
We chose that name becausealthough it was not called the
work we did for 30 years, it iswhat we have been doing.

(24:56):
We have been through activemanagement help ecosystem to
restore and you know, andcommunities to get connected and
core areas to be protected.
So we have been doing rewildingand that's our name now.
And in the case of rewilding,you know, Tompkins Conservation
is essential for our, you know,Chris is our founder, uh, you

(25:17):
know, our hero too, uh, forsure, like Doug, like Doug is.
And um, so she helped us in allof that.
But the local teams, like in mycase, I run Rewilding Chile.
I do, like Chris said to me, youknow, Carolina, I just want you
to understand that my problemsnow are your problems.
So that's that's what is ittakes.

(25:38):
It takes a lot of um, you know,problem resolution and and
strategy.
But rewilding Chile now focuseson Chile and Patagonia.
Uh in all the projects we havecreated, we are about to create
National Park number eight onthe Strait of Mangelian.
Cape Flower National Park.
It should be coming in the nextcouple of months.
And but also we are focusing allof our work along the Antiguan

(26:00):
corridor.
We have so much experience inworking with the Keystone
species that we have projectedour work.
We're already working in centralChile with the repopulation of
the Guanacos, with the networkof Nature Sanctuary, the
regional government of Santiago,and the University of Chile,
working in Peru with otherorganizations in the Darwin, not
Darwin's RIA, but RIAS, and alsoprojecting our work all the way

(26:23):
to Colombia.
And do, you know, we need toexpand our impact beyond
borders, beyond frontiers.

SPEAKER_16 (26:29):
Yeah, well, and this is where the I'm gonna say the
challenge of the Patagonia isthat it's Chile and Argentina.
So obviously it makes totalsense you've created the
structure.
And when you obviously you leaduh rewilding Chile, specifically
in all these projects and a newnational park.
I want to make sure that youknow other people take the
opportunity to travel to Chile.
What would be some of thereasons that you would provide

(26:49):
to encourage people to explorethis beautiful part of the
world?

SPEAKER_10 (26:53):
Well, you know, it one thing that it was Doug's
last best idea, it was givingthis territorial vision to Chile
and Patagonia through the routeof parks of Patagonia.
So when you come to Chile andplease do stop in Puerto Varas
in the Lake region wherePatagonia starts, from then on,
all the way to Cape Horn, youwill encounter 18 national

(27:15):
parks.
Not all of them have access, tenof them have public access,
which is very important.
But you know, just drivingthrough this magnificent
temperate rainforest, ice caps,Patagonian steppe, you know, we
are not, you know, we are big,big, big on landscape and a
really nice, welcoming culture,beautiful landscapes, and you

(27:38):
know, a big percentage ofpriesting.
We have a lot of you knowchallenges, but we have a huge
priestiness in our territory,and you know, a fantastic place
to have in a spiritualconnection with nature.

SPEAKER_16 (27:51):
For sure.
And it certainly has had aprofound impact on me.
I'll even say, you know, Chilehas changed me, but not
necessarily as profoundly asobviously uh Douglas or
Christine.
However, in uh in my small way,I have seen the world
differently from my time hereand a completely different
appreciation for wildlife andfor the landscapes of Chile that
you know that when you see themand you're they're so

(28:12):
awe-inspiring, they have to beprotected.
That's your instant like uhreaction, at least that was for
me.
And doing a cycling trip for thevery first time.
I've never taken a cycling trip.
Oh wow.
I'm what I know exactly.
I'm like, and now all I want todo is be able to take cycling
trips because it's the mostamazing way to experience such a
beautiful place like Chile.
Um, I know that you now havedonations, and I one of the

(28:32):
things I wanted to highlightbecause more and more travelers
are willing to give their timeand obviously uh uh also to
donate to organizations likeTompkins Conservation.
And I loved the uh the line thatuh that Douglas had, um, which
is uh if anything can save theworld, I'd put my money on
beauty.
Yes.
And I and this is where I youknow I felt at the end of this

(28:54):
trip.
I'm like, what else can I do?
What else can I like can I youknow and so I'd love our
listeners, if you, Caroline, ifyou could leave us with
suggestions for beyond travelingto Chile, what else can
travelers do to uh to help withcontinue with this vision and
commitment?

SPEAKER_10 (29:09):
Yes.
Well, I I just want to stop onthe beyond traveling to Chile
because I think it's superimportant that conservation has
an economic component to it.
And therefore, developinginfrastructure in national parks
and allowing communities toconnect this and have visitors
experience the communities andthe national parks is what it
will help preserve this in thelong time too.

(29:30):
So coming to Chile is uh, youknow, is is one fantastic idea.
Please visit rewildingchile.org.
We started our volunteer programagain.
We did it with TompkinsConservation for years.
So we are welcoming, you know,little by little foreign and
Chileans to participate in ourconservation efforts.
And then, of course, uh if youcannot come and if you're a

(29:51):
volunteer, spread the word,follow us, and if you want to
contribute with your me withyour funds, we also have that
opportunity.
Many travel agencies fromdifferent parts of the world are
contributing with Rewild inChile as part of their um what
do you call it like likemeaningful travel experiences.

SPEAKER_16 (30:12):
It's amazing.
No, thank you, Carolina.
It's such a pleasure to meetyou.
It's such a uh wonderfulexperience to be here in Chile.
The contributions that you'vemade to our planet are so
immense, and I think uh I Iextend this on behalf of myself,
our team, and likely many of ourlisteners, but thank you.
Thank you for everything you do.

SPEAKER_10 (30:30):
A pleasure.

SPEAKER_16 (30:31):
And I look forward to keeping in touch, and I can't
wait to come back to Chile.
So much gracias, Carolina.
I now have the absolute honor tospeak with someone I deeply
admire and respect and have hada newfound appreciation being in
Chile.
The number of people that havesaid to me, You're gonna get to

(30:52):
speak to Christine Tompkins.
Do you know Christine Tompkins?
I've listened to her TED Talk,I've listened to multiple
podcasts.
You have one of the mostremarkable stories of anyone in
the travel industry.
I mean, let alone being the CEOof Patagonia, so you obviously
have that background as well.
But the work that you've done inconservation is truly
extraordinary.
And I just want to start ourconversation where I finished

(31:15):
off uh with Carolina, theexecutive director, by saying
thank you.
Thank you for everything you'vedone for this industry.
Obviously, I mean, you are ahero to many people.
I saw you on stage the firstday, and I was like, oh my
goodness, I get to speak to hertomorrow.
This is gonna be so special.
So, Christine, thank you so muchfor joining us for this
conversation.

SPEAKER_11 (31:31):
Well, I'm delighted and thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_16 (31:34):
Of course, of course.
There's such uh a special storyto tell here about the Tompkins
conservation, and Carolina hascovered uh so much of the
background and the detail andwhat I want to be able to do
with our time together is talkabout the future.
Because you to me, and I wassaying this to Christine just
before we started, she knew JaneGoodall, she's a friend of Jane
Goodall's Jane Goodall, and I Iput you absolutely in the same

(31:56):
company that the effect you'vealready had and the and what
you're still contributing to theglobal community.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour role today.
And I know that we just left offour conversation talking about
the Tompkins conservation, andwe have Rewilding Chile and
Rewilding Argentina.
So you've been pre-preparing forthe long-term future for the
organization, and hopefullyyou'll still be leading this for

(32:17):
many years to come.
But tell us a little bit aboutyour role today.

SPEAKER_11 (32:21):
Well, it you know, it varies, but um right after my
husband Doug died, I talked toSofia, who runs uh Rewilding
Argentina, and of courseCarolina, and said, uh we need
to be, we need to make you guysindependent as soon as possible.
Because I think when I retiredfrom my CEO role at Patagonia,

(32:43):
and it was uh it all happenedpretty fast, um, I didn't have a
good succession plan.
And it cost me dearly forseveral years after uh I left my
chair in Patagonia.
I'm still working at Patagonia,so just have my 53rd uh
anniversary at PatagoniaCompany.

(33:05):
But but uh once I realized orcould think clearly, I realized
that with only one of us left,it was really important that
they become independent and uhnot stop working together.
But if something happened to me,everybody would be ready to just

(33:25):
keep going without a slip.
And I see the same thing forCarolina and Sophia.
You know, I'm always talkingabout um how proud we are of the
last 33 years, but I don'treally spend a lot of time
thinking about that because whatI'm interested in is how do we
use that work as a foundationfor everybody's work now, and

(33:50):
the I consider them the secondgeneration.
But how do you install the thirdgeneration, maybe perhaps the
fourth generation, with a kindof I would say discipline and um
strategic planning and arelentlessness that Carolina and

(34:12):
Sophia and I share, andcertainly Doug did, how do you
install that so that whathappens 50 years from now?
That's what that's what reallyinterests me now.

SPEAKER_16 (34:23):
Well, and especially given that not only the legacy
for what uh Douglas has achievedand what you have achieved and
continue to do, but as youmentioned, the team and the
people that will continue tolead this forward.
And I think that's where, youknow, speaking to Carolina,
understand the number ofprojects, including the latest
national park, uh number eight.
Is that right?

SPEAKER_11 (34:40):
Eighth in in uh in Chile, sixteenth between the two
countries.

SPEAKER_16 (34:45):
Extraordinary.
And so tell us about some of thelatest initiatives that you are
working on across bothorganizations, because we
obviously we've talked to uh uhabout rewilding Chile, uh, but
obviously you have uh uhArgentina to focus on as well
across both borders.

SPEAKER_11 (35:00):
Yes, I'm still so lucky I can work really the
entire um Southern Coneterritory.
Uh I don't know if Carolinatalked much about it, but
certainly um I'm very concernedabout the velocity at which
things are taking place in theworld.
Not only are they unfolding, butuh the velocity.

(35:24):
And so I ask myself and andthese guys, we've had so much
success over the last 33 years.
But let's set that to the sidefor a moment and ask ourselves,
what should we be doing that wemay not be doing to expand the
impact of our work, the efficacyof our work, and and um, you

(35:51):
know, a lot of self-reflectionabout everything we do, my
roles, their roles, the teams,and so on.
So that's when we startedsaying, well, working in Chile,
working in Argentina, the impactI think um is pretty high.

(36:13):
It it's pretty started high,it's it gets higher and higher
uh every few years as theseteams mature, and the
leadership, of course, with uhCarolina and Sofia has always
been um alongside Doug's and mywhat Carolina always calls me
relentless.

(36:34):
And those are I consider that tobe a compliment, although I know
it's not always used that way.
So how do you take what has beenlearned through through really
good decisions and some mistakesas well?
And and you uh if you takecondors, for instance, you know,

(36:55):
the population of condors in thesouthern cone is pretty healthy,
but we know up in the northernheadlands of of uh Colombia that
there are very few condors left.
So how do you take what we know,what we've had, what we've
learned, and extend that out allthe way up in the case of Chile,

(37:18):
all the way up the Andes to thetop of Colombia.
And in the case of Argentina, uma lot through having been
successful at bringing back toppredators like the Jaguar, even
though Ibera, where we startedwith the Jaguars, is almost two
million acres, we still know nowthat the success of um a lot of

(37:44):
rewilding projects insists thatyou move out and beyond the
boundaries of a national parkbecause jaguars don't know where
the park is, and pumas don'tknow, Yandu don't know.
And that really has been a a seachange in in our thinking.

(38:05):
So as I said, Carolina and Chileis moving up the Andes in terms
of uh whether it's Wanaco work,Condor work, Wemo work, and in
Argentina, I just got back, youknow, I'm here after two weeks
working up there.
And we're now we just announcedthe Jaguar Rivers Initiative,

(38:28):
which is sewing togetherArgentina, Brazil, Paraguay, and
Bolivia.
Because if you don't do that, ifyou don't start looking at
conservation and your design forconservation driven by where are
the where are the animals going?
What do they use?

(38:49):
The rivers, and in this case inthe north, they're using the
rivers.
What what um what are the actualdirections and and patterns that
we should be following ratherthan just national parks?
And that we just launched thatin New York uh a couple weeks

(39:09):
ago.
And interesting enough, I Ithink this is super p important,
and it has been for me.
I'm the first of us to go outand start talking about these
things with maps, with kind ofwhat criteria we would set for
all these things.
And you know what?
Not one person, whether it's thehead of National Geographic or

(39:33):
you name it, nobody has said,Oh, that's too big, it's too
hard, uh, nobody's working onthat style of rewilding
conservation.
The resounding response is yeah,of course.
So that's obvious.
I came home from the first, thiswas probably over oh well over a

(39:55):
year ago, thinking, God, did weget here late?
I mean, it it is like it'sobvious, but we just are so
trained to think in a certainpattern, a certain way.
And you have to constantly forceyourself to break out of those
patterns.

SPEAKER_16 (40:12):
Well, I would say it's obvious to you because
clearly yourself and Douglaswere such visionaries and had
the foresight to be able torealize how important it was
going to be to protect thesenatural environments, to enable
pumas, cougars, or even as Ilearned on my trip, um, not only
the condors, which is featuredin the the uh Netflix

(40:32):
documentary about Douglas, whichis uh wildlife, everyone that
has to watch that, but the uhthe nesting area for condors,
but one of the other is is thedeer.
I had no idea that the deers areendangered here in Chile.

SPEAKER_11 (40:44):
Yeah, when you think about the Weymool deer, very
tender, quiet, beloved species,but they're you know, they're
going extinct.
There are fifteen hundred ofthem left between the two
countries.
So when we first startedcommitting ourselves to working
to try to bring this speciesback, we were thinking about

(41:05):
Patagonia National Park.
We were thinking about up nearFurle Fu or but when you really
look at it, that species goesfrom Cape Froward down here on
the Straits of Magellan all theway up to Chi'an, just south of
Santiago.

(41:26):
And w even we weren't puttingthat together.
Like if you're gonna serve if ifyou're if you're headlong into
saving a species, you've gottaknow their territory.
You have to understand theextent to what has been lost.
And if you can't understandthose things, if you don't
discipline yourself to reallyunderstand the history of the

(41:51):
species, um, then you're gonnahave a really hard time being
successful to bring it back.
And the same thing is truewhether you're going up through
the Baraná Basin to the Amazonor or up the Amazon from here in
southern Chile.
It it has been a sea change andreally brought us tremendous

(42:14):
happiness to have committed tothis arc, the arc of a species,
rather than just in a particularpark here and there.

SPEAKER_16 (42:23):
Well, one of the things that also really stood
out in your story, and also whenI've listened to you be
interviewed, you've talked aboutrisk.
You mentioned also just a momentago about not having a uh not
having the transition team inplace or being conscientious of
legacy.
I do know uh from listening to anumber of your interviews that
when you moved to Patagonia andwhen you had the new executive

(42:44):
team, the new CEO and CFO, andyou were looking at the
transition, you came here withthat team, you obviously fell in
love with Patagonia and you metDouglas, and the two most
incredible things in your lifehappened.
I think most people would lookat you and say, Wow, you had
this incredible job atPatagonia.
You started there, you workedthere in the summer, you it was
your first job, you're the firstCEO, you went from you know
shipping and receiving to youknow running this incredible

(43:07):
organization that is globallyrespected and admired.
But your second act has beenthat much more profound and
meaningful in the work that youhave done here.
And um, but one of the questionsI wanted to ask you was this
assessing risk, because it's oneof the things that you had
highlighted, and I found that sofascinating because it's not
something I often hear uh peopletalk about.

(43:28):
And uh clearly the the thingthat stood out to me about that,
Christine, is that you recognizethe risk to the environment and
to what was going to happen ifsomeone didn't step in, Douglas
yourself.
And so tell us a little bitabout how you assess that, how
you look at projects and how youdecide on what you're gonna
focus on next because yourecognize these risks.

SPEAKER_11 (43:49):
Well, first of all, I think uh all of us are pretty
good at assessing risk.
I do.
And that comes from a lot ofdifferent personality traits and
so on.
And I welcome I my I think I domy best work, and I would say
this a little bit about Carolinaas well.
When we start at zero, whensomething's if it's not

(44:13):
impossible, it's close to it.
And you're starting at zero, youhave a canvas upon which you can
paint a masterpiece.
And and just that is theoriginal risk because a lot of
what we've been doing, nobodyelse has been done, you know,
they're not doing it.
That said, when we got startedwith rewilding, we were going to

(44:34):
South Africa, we were going toKenya to meet with people who
were the best and the best oflargely translocating large
mammals from one place to theother.
But these guys are they'regenius.
So yes, we like to take on risk,but we also are super clear that
we're going for success.

(44:56):
So calculated risk, how do youmitigate that risk?
You go to the best people in theworld, and in those days, and
they're still right up there, isgo to Africa and figure out we
didn't even know the questionsto ask.
So, yes, we're super comfortablewith risk.
Um, we know that especially inconservation uh and the

(45:19):
rewilding parts of it, there areno very few trails to follow.
And so I think that's whereactually I would say we do our
best work.

SPEAKER_16 (45:32):
That's fantastic.
And obviously, that clearly isthe case.
So that and um when you look atthe organization as is today and
making sure that you know thelegacy, because one of one of
the things that I want ouraudience to understand too about
the Tompkins conservation,because hearing the story of
your background and Douglas'sbackground and how the
organization started, obviouslyit started with the two of you

(45:53):
combining funds and then youknow launching these
initiatives.
But as I understand, speaking toCarolina, that today you you
don't take government funding,that's an important thing I
think for our listeners tounderstand as well.

SPEAKER_11 (46:03):
That's correct.

SPEAKER_16 (46:04):
But you do obviously engage with family offices and
um so tell us a little bit abouthow the organization is funded
today.
For those people who arelistening to this that are
amazed at your story, have notheard about the Tompkins
Conservation Foundation beforeand how they could get involved.

SPEAKER_11 (46:21):
Well, first of all, all are welcome when it comes to
conservation rewilding.
But um when we got started, wehad personal finances coming out
of the out of the businessworld, primarily Doug's, less so
mine.
And um we have used that for theearly years, uh, kind of finding

(46:45):
our way to what what were wegoing to do?
What would be our strategies?
And so a lot of the initial bigterritories were purchased with
our family foundation funds.
And and we always knew that atwhen Doug and I are both gone,
we never wanted to just keep theTompkins Conservation Foundation

(47:09):
going.
We want to spend it down whilewe're alive.
Because we believe in people uhwhom we've worked with for over
three decades now, and we alsohave a point of view about
speed, we talked about risk andand um going for broke.
So I think our foundation put injust over 400 million dollars

(47:32):
over you know three decades.
Well, it sounds like a lot, andand it it is a lot, but it's
it's not nearly what'snecessary.
So about one-third of the wayinto the early years, we wanted
to take on Patagonia NationalPark.
And I didn't personally haveenough money to buy all the

(47:53):
land, and it was soextraordinary, there was no
question not to do it, but thebig question was how to do it.
And that that's really the firstexample when we um took on or
were graced with, this is abetter way to say it, graced
with partners, mostly goodfriends, uh some of Doug's

(48:16):
business pals, um, you know, theChinard family at Patagonia
Company.
And that that um that kind ofidea about having your own
assets, but understanding thatit's never enough.
I don't care how much money youhave, this kind of large-scale
long-term conservation takeswillful um the examination of

(48:44):
how much you can put into it andhow much um outside partnerships
are necessary.
And that's still that's stilltrue.

SPEAKER_16 (48:54):
Tell us a little bit about your vision for the
future.
2050 or even 2100 for thatmatter, whether it's 25 years
from now or 75 years from now,what is your vision for this
region and specifically for thefoundation long term?

SPEAKER_11 (49:09):
Oh, I think um in in terms of Chile, Carolina's
leadership organization, uh, Idon't have to worry about what's
it gonna look like whenCarolina's gone.
It's gonna change, that's forsure.
But we have plans, we havestrategies that can play out

(49:33):
over many decades out into thefuture.
So I'm 75, just and especiallywith this expansion into uh
extending into other areas inSouth America.
I would say for Chile, there's agame plan on deck that will go m
many, many years into thefuture.

(49:56):
So, you know, I can die hahappily.
Same thing with Argentina,because what we've taken on just
in the last year or so, year anda half, will take whatever's
left of my lifetime, most oftheirs, and then all again, I
can't I can't say enough, thethird and fourth generations of

(50:16):
of conservationists who aregonna be leaders in this kind of
tragic effort to save importantplaces, the jewels of a place,
bringing large ecosystems backinto deep health and and uh I

(50:41):
don't know.
I I don't worry about thefuture.
I I see it, and I think theseguys see it.
And I I just think we've been soblessed to work as these teams
together, the leadership for solong, and we argue like cats in

(51:02):
a bag, and we you know, we havevery, very unique relationships
that survive the bad times andthe good times, and I'm not
worried about the future.
The future is these guys andwhatever they put up on the
table after they're gone.

SPEAKER_16 (51:20):
Yeah, you you've spoken about a number of things
that have really struck a chordwith me, and I'm sure many of
our listeners as well.
And one of the things, you know,you talked about risk, but you
also talked about the philosophyof change.
And there's a couple lastquestions I had for you, and I
just wanted you you are you knowincredibly inspiring, and also
you to me represent hope.
And I feel that um for all of usto be remain optimistic about

(51:41):
the future despite currentgeopolitical challenges or the
state of the world or coralreefs starting to die off, and
all of a sudden, you know, thisthis feeling of panic about the
future of our planet.
What keeps you hopeful andoptimistic?

SPEAKER_11 (51:55):
Well, honestly, I'm not hopeful.
I don't even like the word hopebecause it implies uh a kind of
a lethargy or a kind of peopleask me, oh, do you have hope?
And I know what they're askingme.
Are there if I have hope, thenthey can rest.
I don't like that.
I think we have to fight forhope.

(52:17):
You hope is a muscle.

SPEAKER_03 (52:19):
I love that.

SPEAKER_11 (52:20):
And you don't deserve to have hope unless
you're getting out of bed everyday and doing something toward
your future.
You're not abdicating yourfuture and the future of all
life.
So I don't accept hope.
And you know, if I'm speaking inpublic, people are like sinking

(52:40):
into their chairs.
But I uh the more I think aboutit, the more adamant I am about
it.
You have to earn it.
You can't just hope somebody'sdoing something out there that
will change the trajectory ofyour life.
If you're not in the absence ofwork, you are abdicating not

(53:04):
only your future, which is yourbusiness, but you're abdicating
the future of billions ofspecies, including human
communities, who, by the way,half of them on the earth are
suffering in an intolerable way.
So, you know what?
I'm pessimistic for thiscentury, and I'm driven by

(53:26):
pessimism.

SPEAKER_17 (53:27):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_11 (53:29):
I'm I get up every day and work because I am
tragically mournful about what'staking place in the human
communities.
If you live in the South Sudan,you you are not swimming in the
sea of hope and glee.
I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_16 (53:46):
So that's not talked about enough.

SPEAKER_11 (53:48):
That that dri that's what drives me.

SPEAKER_16 (53:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (53:50):
And I I don't I don't want to be on the team
where people are not rolling uptheir sleeves and doing
something.
Maybe it's not their full-timejob like it is for us, but boy,
this sense of abdication, ofkind of lying backwards and just
let the world and the economicstory roll over you.

(54:12):
I'm not gonna be on that team.
I don't, I don't respect it andI don't want it.

SPEAKER_17 (54:17):
Well said.

SPEAKER_16 (54:18):
Now there's one one more I'm so glad I asked you
that because that's an importantclarification.
Hope optimism.
And I think so.
Here's my question, lastquestion for you, Christine.
We're all here together inbeautiful uh Puerto Natales in
Chile.

SPEAKER_11 (54:32):
Yes, I'm looking at it now.

SPEAKER_16 (54:34):
And it's extraordinary, and I've had the
most incredible week years.
This is my second time in Chile,so I've had an amazing time
coming here with my family oncebefore.
And so I I knew what I was infor, but this trip has been far
more profound than I could haveever expected.
And as we are at the ATTA, theAdventure Travel and Trade
Association conference, and manypeople uh like myself have had a

(54:56):
massive impact of being here,seeing you on the stage, myself
having the privilege to be ableto speak to you directly.
What would you like people toleave this conference with and
this podcast for all thosepeople that weren't able to be
here and experience this inperson?
What is your message toeveryone, and maybe if it is
about what action they can take?
Because I actually think thosewords are far more inspiring to

(55:18):
actually get up and dosomething.
What what would you likeeveryone uh to leave this
conference with or uh leave ourconversation with?

SPEAKER_11 (55:25):
Oh gosh.
I I guess I would put it thisway.
Tourism historically is sort ofgoing into a territory and
skimming the cream off the topand then getting back in the
plane and going home.
My hope for this industry isthat that disconnection

(55:50):
vanishes, that there is a senseof responsibility for people who
are going into beautiful placesor you know, rare species
wherever people are traveling,that you don't take it for you
don't take that love of thatplace for granted.

(56:12):
Because the people who are ofthose places can't hold up under
the pressure of tourism andeverything else coming at them
without the extension of a handfrom the very industry who is
loving it to death.
So I if I were gonna do uh agathering like this, I would

(56:36):
really add in the challenge andthe ask.
Don't just go be part of whatthat is.
And you can't join groups inevery place you go to around the
world.
I understand that.
But look around and be aware.
What is what do these placesneed?

(56:56):
What are the what are the voicesof these places?
You have a responsibility toparticipate in the maintenance
of these places and people whomwhom you love, who you find
inspiration from.
Because I feel, and I could bewrong, and I apologizing to

(57:16):
everybody if I'm wrong, but itfeels a little bit like a
one-way street.
You go in and you come out, andand the joy, I can tell you, I
was in business for a long time,still am.
And if Doug were alive, he'd saythe same thing.
Getting into conservationrewilding has changed our lives

(57:41):
in ways that no successfulbusiness, no fabulous trip, no
nothing can compare to rollingup your shirt sleeves and going
and working for these things,people, and places that we hope
last forever.

SPEAKER_16 (58:00):
Thank you so much for sharing all of those
valuable insights, the meaning,the purpose.
It is so inspiring to sit nextto you and have this
conversation.
I can't thank you enough formaking the time, and I certainly
encourage all of our listenersuh to get involved.
Obviously, traveling to Chile,Argentina as well, but also the
Tompkins ConservationFoundation, the work that you're
doing and the future with theteam that you've built is very

(58:22):
bright.
And I thank you again foreverything you've done, and I
look forward to following yourjourney because you are, you
know, you have so much still tooffer.
You've done so much, but youstill have so much more.
And uh, I look forward to seeingyour continued success.
So thank you again very much.

SPEAKER_11 (58:38):
Well, you're very kind for those words.
And um, I think we're lucky welove what we do.
So thank you very much forhaving us here.

SPEAKER_19 (58:47):
You're welcome.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_17 (58:50):
All right.

SPEAKER_16 (58:51):
I now have the the fine pleasure to introduce you
to Nina Kakotas Hahn, who's ajournalist.
She is a content strategist.
She has an incredibly impressivebackground in the travel
industry, working with brandslike ANK and also with Expedia.
She did an amazing panel sessionthat she moderated here at the
ATTA conference.

(59:12):
And most importantly, she was mye-bike buddy as we had went on
the same PSA trip together,which was absolutely
extraordinary.
So, Nina, welcome to TravelTrends.
Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_09 (59:23):
Thanks for having me, Dan.

SPEAKER_16 (59:25):
For sure.
Tell everyone where you're from.

SPEAKER_17 (59:26):
Chicago.

SPEAKER_09 (59:27):
I'm from Chicago.
I'm not far from you.
Not at all.
Exactly.
It's like a hop skip inPatagonian terms.

SPEAKER_16 (59:32):
For sure.
Yeah.
Um, tell everyone a little bitmore about your background.
Obviously, I gave everyone abrief introduction, but you've
done and accomplished so much inthis industry.
And I want to talk about yourpanel, and I also want to talk
about our pre-shops since it wasso special with Claudia and
Fernando and our e-bike crew.
And um, but yeah, tell us uhtell all listeners a little bit
more about Nina and what you'veaccomplished because it's pretty

(59:54):
impressive.

SPEAKER_09 (59:55):
I've been a travel journalist for a little over 20
years and And I write locallyfor Chicago magazine.
Um, but I also contribute toTravel and Leisure, Condi Nas
Traveler, and Afar.
And I sometimes we'll go on NPRlocally too and talk about
travel.
Um I used to do TV, but face forthe morning, right?

SPEAKER_17 (01:00:15):
You and me both, Nina.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:16):
Um, so we And that's not true.

SPEAKER_17 (01:00:19):
Uh that's that's not true for you.
So yeah for both of us.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:23):
Um so I've always done that on the side, but I
worked in market been working inmarketing and advertising for
about as long, and I did thatwork full time.
And that work um kind of led meon a journey towards travel.
My mom was a travel agent, soit's always been part of my
upbringing.
Um, and when I started workingin-house for Expedia, it really

(01:00:46):
kind of took off for me thatthis was my place, like the
stars had aligned and kind ofled me to like, oh, this is what
I'm supposed to be doing.
Totally.
So I really just made a decisionto laser focus on travel.
And from there, I went to workfor Abercrombie and Kent for
almost 12 years, and then Iworked for Eleven for a bit.
And Eleven is a luxury heliskioperator.

(01:01:08):
Um, but from that I decided itwas time to strike out on my
own.
Um, wonderful experiences at allof those companies, but I think
what I found was resonating forme was wanting to do more around
responsible, sustainable travel.
Um, and being a consultant, Imade a commitment to align

(01:01:28):
myself with clients whose valuesare similar to mine.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:01:32):
So some of my clients include today, Explora,
um, and they do a wonderful jobwith their conservation
products.

SPEAKER_16 (01:01:38):
So I'm and I I just want to mention that because we
actually first met, it's onlybeen like whatever, a week, week
and a half ago, and we jumped onthe shuttle, and you were
working away on your laptop andfinishing off a project, uh,
content strategy project.
And I obviously got to I know Iknow what content strategists
do, but I actually hadn't metsomeone quite like you before

(01:01:58):
that is so experienced in someof the things you're working on.
Their projects were sointeresting.
And I told Gonzalo, as you know,just how like exceptional you
are because you are like supertalented.
And I let him know that becausehe was on my panel, and I was I
learned more about Explora fromour conversation as well for
what you've been working on withthem.
Anyway, but yes, you have areally unique talent, and I
that's like one of severalreasons I wanted to have you

(01:02:20):
join us to give our audience abit more of an understanding of
what you do, because so manyorganizations talk about content
strategy and just really justdon't get it right.
And uh um, and you need someonethat has that domain expertise
uh within travel because you'vekind of you have that unique
background where you've donejournalism and marketing, and
usually you're on one side orthe other, and I'm a marketer,

(01:02:41):
I'm not a journalist, and I saidthat to you, and whereas you've
been both.

SPEAKER_09 (01:02:44):
Um that was an interesting journey for me
because back when I was doingboth 15, 20 years ago, it was
worlds you kept separate.
But today, it actually is such aunique badge to have.
It's like a really amazing thatI have both, and something that
I really try to embrace nowtogether.

SPEAKER_16 (01:03:05):
Explain content strategist, like what that role
actually is.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:09):
So, today, what that role is in the most simplest of
terms is we are no longerlooking at just creating
brochures or even a brochure anda website.
There's so many means of gettingyour story told across so many
different channels.
So you've got social media, andsocial media can be fragmented
into Instagram and LinkedIn andYouTube, and then you've got
your emails, and then you've gotyour website, and then you do

(01:03:31):
have brochures, and so on, andso on.
And also there's your press arm.
So your PR movements, like whoare you working with, where are
your stories?
So you're constantly navigatingtoday an overwhelming number of
content channels.
And what a content strategistdoes is, you know, zooming up
from there helps you figure outwhat your story is and how do

(01:03:52):
you tell that story across thosechannels.
So in the simplest of terms,it's that.

SPEAKER_16 (01:03:56):
Yeah, no, that's important to explain that.
And I think that's where certainpeople refer to themselves as
strategists.
And it's for me, I've comeacross certain people that claim
that title but haven't reallyearned it.
I guess is one way to put it,that they are, you know, a
couple years out of universityand they've got a little bit of
experience and now they're acontent strategist.
That's where you're verydifferent in that regard.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:17):
So um I appreciate hearing that because I do think
it's something you have to havesome experience in each of those
channels in order to reallyunderstand how they all work.

SPEAKER_16 (01:04:24):
Yeah, totally.
And that's why I want to talkabout this session that you did
that you were working so hard onto prepare for, both with the
panelists and all getting yournotes together.
And I I attended your session,it was fantastic.
I know you ran it twice, and alot of our uh I'll call them
team members from our uh bicycleor cycling group joined as well.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:42):
And obviously, it's great to have the support.

SPEAKER_16 (01:04:44):
Totally, yeah.
No, for sure.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:45):
I mean everyone I felt the love on stage.

SPEAKER_16 (01:04:47):
Oh, I'm so glad because everyone like adored
you, Nina, and you were so muchfun to travel with.
But yeah, tell us about thepanel, uh, the concept, the
panelists, and what you tried toget across.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:56):
So the panel, the panel was um content strategy
and storytelling or contentcreation and storage
storytelling, and really it isabout navigating the sea of
options that you have today.
And so many people arestruggling, and I think
internally for marketing teamsor any brands that are out
there, the biggest struggle isbeing understaffed or
under-resourced for all of thesedifferent channels that we have

(01:05:18):
to navigate now.
I think I mentioned this in thepanel that some people think all
the work that is being demandedof social media can be done by
like a junior social mediaspecialist, and that is not
true.
Maybe once upon a time it was,but it's no longer true.
So it we were talking about allof the options you have, and if
you have limited resources orstaff or budget or whatever it

(01:05:40):
may be, how do you prioritizewhere you should be pushing your
stories?
Should you promote traditionalmedia trips so you can get press
coverage?
Should you be instead spendingthe money on content creators or
influencers to create videos foryou and give you a bigger
presence on social media?
So we were talking about thebalance of those things.

SPEAKER_16 (01:05:57):
Aaron Powell And tell us who your panelists were.
It was a really interestinggroup of people that came
together to have thisdiscussion.
So tell us a little bit who yourpanelists were.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:04):
Well, and the other all the four of us straddle
different worlds.
I think everybody who deals incontent isn't doing just one
linear thing.
So we had Steve with us, and I'mgonna forget every Steve Dick
Dickinson.
Um, and he runs Pacific Media inNew Zealand, and he um he has an
editorial background, but alsodoes content creation.

(01:06:25):
And his I think the way that hised what's successful about him
is he has both print anddigital, and he's been managing
to run both for many, manyyears.
So that's impressive in today'sclimate.
But I think he operatesdifferently, as you saw, some of
the provocative questions fromthe audience, right?
Um so he operates differently inNew Zealand than we do in the US

(01:06:46):
market, like, and we can getinto that question in a moment.
But Brendan Mark was also uhhe's runs Heliconia, which is
based out of um, he's in Canadaand he does a lot of video for
destinations, and he createsthat video in a way that feels
editorial, like people beinginterviewed, like you and I.
But he also is really what Ithink he's doing in a very

(01:07:09):
intelligent way is thinkingabout distribution.
So a lot of these companies arethinking about creating great
videos and giving you greatcontent, but then what do you do
with it and how do you maximizeit?
And he's really given a lot ofthought to that for his clients.
And then we have Ann Howard, whowas with Honey Trek.
And Honey Trek says that they'vebeen on the longest.
Her and her husband both createdthis, they have a social media

(01:07:30):
presence.
They're uh on their third thirdbook.
They're really into glamping.

SPEAKER_16 (01:07:34):
It's like it's endless honeymoon.

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:36):
Uh yes, it's the it is literally, I think it's
something like the it is theendless honeymoon or some some
kind of tag.

SPEAKER_16 (01:07:41):
Yeah, she was a great speaker.
She was really quite effective,and it was an interesting story.
That's where I've like I wantedyou to highlight the panel
because it was a diverseconversation.

SPEAKER_12 (01:07:48):
Totally diverse, right?

unknown (01:07:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_16 (01:07:50):
And and then so with that panel, what were some of
the big takeaways that youwanted to uh ensure that the
audience could action, takeaway, and apply to their
business?

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:59):
Well, I I'd go back to the distribution content or
distributing your content.
That is really important becauseif you're razzled by someone who
can create content for you, andthese projects can be really
expensive.
Like if you send a film crew outto make content for you, what is
the plan afterwards?
Like what is what are you gonnabe doing with that material?
How are you gonna get it intothe right hands?
So I think thinking aboutdistribution is the next level

(01:08:21):
step.
It can't just be great content.
You have to think about howyou're gonna push it out there.
So for the editorial side ofthings, which Ann, myself, and
Steve all straddled, I thinkthat the conversations were
really interesting and helpfulfor the audience that was
present because we have a lot ofpeople here who are looking to
get their brands and theirdestinations and their

(01:08:41):
experiences out in the press,and they want to work with
people like me and Ann andSteve.
Um, and having an understandingof how those relationships start
today is really important.
And there is sometimes anassumption that we can get a
confirmed letter from oureditors, and that really doesn't
happen anymore.
It's just it's become very umflooded and very understaffed,

(01:09:04):
and it just doesn't, it's notsomething that you typically
see.
So that's where that commentfrom the audience came when
Steve operates differently.
He is able to provide that, itseems, and maybe that's
different in New Zealand, but inthe U.S.
market, certainly we don't get alot of that confirmed coverage.
So um we didn't want, I thoughtit was great that the woman in
the audience stood up and said,we don't want people here to get

(01:09:26):
the wrong idea that we canprovide a guarantee because we
can't.

SPEAKER_16 (01:09:29):
Yeah, no, it was important.
Um that and I it was framed as adebate, and obviously it didn't
play out that way.
We didn't intend to be a debatewith the audience rather than
just debate with the people onstage.

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:41):
I actually hoped it would.
I thought that that was great.
I was excited that crossed over.

SPEAKER_18 (01:09:45):
Yeah, you probably broke the fourth wall.
Yes, yes, just all of a suddenyou had people that were
standing up and and sayingthings to Steve.

SPEAKER_16 (01:09:52):
And I just thought that and it was important
because Steve had very strongviews, and it was like from the
very beginning, you spoke, youyou you know, you introduced him
first, and he had strong viewsabout micro influencers, and he
kind of would make a throwawaycomment about the fact that you
know, like if you have your youknow your parents and your and
your nanny following you, you'relike, and uh and uh and so I'm
sure there were some people thatwere a bit taken aback by the

(01:10:13):
comment because there's actuallya lot of value in targeting
micro influencers, so it's adifferent approach.
But I understand his point wasthat sometimes microf
influencers are kind ofoverplaying their hand with
asking for things, so that wouldbe frustrating for some brands.
So he you know he had his firmviews, but I think that's where
it added some dynamism to thediscussion.
And then the idea that youneeded a letter from your
publisher, and everyone stood upand said, No, you don't.

(01:10:35):
We can't get that, so we can'tset that expectation.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:37):
Right.

SPEAKER_16 (01:10:38):
Um, and I know Kyla, she joined this uh podcast,
she's obviously a friend to usboth now.
And uh she was part of theaudience and she spoke about
that.
But um, I want to talk also justabout ATTA in general, because
you know, you are um you are,you know, like and I I I almost
can't talk about this withoutmentioning our trip because you

(01:10:58):
know, part of what makes thiscommunity so special is the
human connection.
And we all had such a terrifictime with our group.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna tie thesetwo questions together because
you know, we have this awesomeWhatsApp channel that has been
hilarious, it's like been likethe highlight of my week as a
follow-on to our trip.

SPEAKER_09 (01:11:15):
The only important channel to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_16 (01:11:17):
Like it's been absolutely hysterical, but it's
like we had such a great groupon our trip.
We obviously were Claudia andFernando, and you'll hear from
Claudia shortly in this episode.
You know, husband and wifecouple that run this cycling
trip.
We all joined myself, uh therewas a couple of us who were like
least prepared, and I was like,I'll put myself in that club.
But um, but for whatever reason,the team that the group that

(01:11:40):
came together was just sowonderful.
Like it was a magical five daystogether, and like I have not
laughed that hard, and youkindly mentioned that to me as
well.
Like it was just like there wereso many laughs, and there's just
so much uh fun and joy.
And then we get to a conferencelike this, and we already have
like our built-in friend group,and it just takes on a different
dynamic.
So I guess where I was goingwith this question is the you

(01:12:00):
know, some of the highlightsfrom ATTA, and obviously the
pre-ship was probably thebiggest highlight that led to
you know this conference beingso special.
Um, but yeah, tell us about someof the other things beyond your
panel about being at ATTA thisyear that were have been the big
highlights for you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:12:14):
Well, this is my first time attending the summit
because the long it's it's along commitment.
It's for sure.
You do a pre-adventure and thenyou're here for a week.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:12:22):
Um, and I haven't been able to make that
commitment before, and I wassuper excited because I'm a big
fan of Patagonia and Chile.
So this was my calling, right?
We talked about my children areoff to school now, and so I was
free to make this happen.
But I think what wasinteresting, just looking at it
as a whole right now, and I'monly on week two, I'm here for
three weeks, so I have someother projects I'll be working

(01:12:44):
on once we leave here.
But when we finished ourpre-summit adventure, our
cycling, our cycling experience,I thought there's no way it
could get better than this.
It's all going to be downhillfrom here because we really did
laugh so hard.
And for people listening whohaven't seen the funny side of
Dan fully, it is unmatched.
The man is insanely talented atcreating belly laughs.

(01:13:07):
So they happened to galore.
Um, but I I thought it couldn'tget better, and it's gotten the
it's just been amazing.
Like Dan was with one of ournights here.
So, you know, the PSA, sorry,the uh summit adventure of of uh
gravel biking.
Um, I can talk just quicklyabout a highlight.

(01:13:28):
There were so many highlightsthere.
I don't has anyone talked aboutexperience?

SPEAKER_17 (01:13:32):
No, no, we haven't, so we have to cover it.
Please share a few highlights.

SPEAKER_09 (01:13:35):
We some of us opted to get e-bikes because this was
a fierce tier trail.
Like I am a cyclist, but I wasnot really prepared to take on
the gravel and the potholes.
And to those who did in ourgroup, like I think they've all
been very humble.
That was an insanely it could bea difficult ride.
Um, the e-bikes changed it forus.
But for them, imagine if weweren't, we would have lasted 20

(01:13:58):
miles, maybe, and we they theyjust kept doing it, they were
amazing.
But for those of us withe-bikes, and anyone who's ever
used an e-bike, you have kind offive settings on the e-bike.
You have your eco setting allthe way up to power.
And some of us, like Dan, optedto on the first day.
It was quite funny because hewas passing everybody and seemed
to be living his best life.

(01:14:20):
He was just waving and way farahead of the pack.
Well, before the day was out, itturned out Dan was cruising
along in power mode and hise-bike motor died, and he was
slugging that heavy bike uphillall on his own.

SPEAKER_18 (01:14:36):
25 kilos.
And I felt every one of them forthose last five kilometers when
our bus driver refused to comeback because he was making
lunch.
Oh, Danny.
Oh, Danny boy.
Danny, that was that's gonna bethat's gonna be in my uh my pre
my post-trip review.

SPEAKER_09 (01:14:51):
Uh that's gonna he had to keep the rest of us happy
to like kind of you know weighthe pros and cons.
But though that was thebeginning of one day.
That was just one, the firstday.
And the weather was in our fate.
I mean, the the weather here inPatagonia is famously changing
and and extreme.
And we came here withunfortunate like rain and cold

(01:15:13):
that was a little unexpected,but literally the gods were
shining on us because every timewe went out, it kept getting
better.
We drove in rain that wasstarting to turn to snow, and as
soon as we opened the van doors,it literally became sunny.
And our bike rides got betterand better with each day.
Like we had just such a greattime together, and I feel that

(01:15:34):
the chemistry of our group wasweirdly magical.
Um, and our guides, like, let'stalk about Claudio and Fernando.

SPEAKER_16 (01:15:42):
Oh, so amazing.
Husband and wife couple.
He's um she's leading the way,he's at the back.
Well, I was leading most of theway, we have to be honest here.

SPEAKER_17 (01:15:50):
While you had battery, and then Steve passed
me, and then I was at the endbecause he was otherwise the uh
the bumper car.

SPEAKER_18 (01:16:00):
Yeah, there's sweeping.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:16:02):
But Claudio and Fernando, I think, you know,
from a travel perspective, theirwhat makes them so special, and
this is Cloostral, is that theytheir passion is evident every
moment.
And their attentiveness with uswas every they they didn't stop.
I mean, I'm looking at my hand,I burned my hand walking around.

(01:16:23):
I I accidentally touched achimney pipe, lucky me.
And it was almost as if Claudiaappeared out of nowhere with a
full medical kit, and I barelyhave anything, a scar now today.
Like from something like that tojust being super mindful, I ate
gluten-free, and everywhere wewent, she was making sure that I
had gluten-free served to me,like vigilantly.

(01:16:44):
At the same time that she washaving a great time with us and
so such a joy to be around andhas become our friend.
So it felt very authentic, andtheir passion to deliver such a
good trip and experience for uswas super clear.
So I was very impressed withthem.

SPEAKER_16 (01:16:58):
No, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, Fernando was the reasonthat I finished that first day
because he offered me his bikeand he stayed with me the entire
time, and I felt awful about itbecause I kept saying, just go
ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 (01:17:07):
As you should.

SPEAKER_16 (01:17:09):
As they should.
My bike, I'm just kidding.
No, it's totally my fault.
Um, but uh yeah, so Fernando andthen obviously Claudia, who's
been with us here at theconference, and she's been out
with us every night, and likethis just you know, our whole
group dynamic has been so uhthat I just wanted to share one
other story because you can um,you know, when I was leading the
path, when I was like I I'vekind of realized that I was

(01:17:31):
almost like the uh when you goto the Greyhound races and
there's the bunny that like allthe greyhounds have to chase, I
was kind of that bunny with mehere, like just because the
advanced cyclists what we foundout from Claudia and Fernando is
that our group was the fastestever that's actually gone
through that, like by far.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_18 (01:17:48):
Like that, like our timing reached the legs, and I
think that's because I thinkit's because I was everything.
Because I was the bunny.
I was the I was pacing everyonewith with power.
I was like the power setting,and all the other cyclists had
to keep up with us.
But there was this one day, soI'd always end up at like the um
the first stop because it'd belike a midway stop.

SPEAKER_16 (01:18:06):
And uh one day, I think it was day two, I ended up
there and I was waiting for likehalf an hour, and you guys still
hadn't turned up, and theneventually did, and you got and
you guys said, Did you see thelandslide?

SPEAKER_17 (01:18:16):
I'm like, landslide?
What and you saw the landslidehappen in front of you in front
of me after the storm, and thenyou guys were all joking it was
because of the sonic boom ofwhen I passed by that I just
like yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (01:18:29):
So that just gives one highlight of like just
because that I I enjoyed it likeum immensely as well.

SPEAKER_09 (01:18:35):
But yeah, so but even off the road, too, like
shout out to Senderos Patagoniawhere we stayed in the city.
Totally.

SPEAKER_17 (01:18:40):
Oh my god, those commodities.

SPEAKER_09 (01:18:42):
Via Cerro Castillo, we stayed at a lovely place
called Senderos Patagonia.
Yeah, and the innkeeper, if wecall her an innkeeper and her
husband, so Mary, took us outfor some wonderful cultural
excursions.
Like we went to an authenticquincho, we went and saw some, I
don't want to call them cave,it's like hand paintings on an

(01:19:02):
ancient rock wall with the manwho found them years ago.
I mean, what are the chances?
Like, so we had a really uniqueopportunity.
What I think is really greatabout that gravel bike ride is
true slow travel.
Like we got to settle into asmall town and meet local people
and hang out and experience somewild places like that.

SPEAKER_16 (01:19:22):
Totally.
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, the people, like the forme, like the the landscape, the
people, and then to bring itback to where we are now at
ATTA, and we'll speak to Claudiain a moment and get um and and
be able to show share more aboutCicloostral with all of our
listeners here on this podcastbecause I want, and I'm sure you
feel the same way, many otherpeople to be able to experience
what we had um with Cycloostral,like I mean, because they're

(01:19:45):
such a special operator in sucha beautiful region of the world,
but it certainly inspired me totake more cycling trips.
Like, I'm like, I didn't thinkthat this was my thing, and I'm
like, I I loved it so much thatI cannot wait to figure out what
I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_09 (01:19:56):
You like looking for a power e-bike tour.
How do we one up this one?
Is there it's gonna be someprovider that has a next level
of your number six, superpower.

SPEAKER_17 (01:20:06):
One setting, go go big or go home.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:09):
That was our that was our thing.

SPEAKER_16 (01:20:11):
Yeah, but uh uh when we were back here at ATTA, there
was also this incredible bandthat you had a chance to
experience as well.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:17):
That was an epic night.

SPEAKER_16 (01:20:18):
That was a shared moment where it's just like that
music and culture and all cametogether.
All the Chileans were soexcited, this band that you and
I had not heard of, and therewas about five or six of us up
at the front, and uh Las Juevas,I believe.
Las Jaivas, thank you.
Las Jaivas.
They were extraordinary, andthat was like one of the biggest
highlights for me as well wasthat night where we're like our

(01:20:40):
whole crew is there and likethis band is playing that is
like the grateful dead in Chile.

SPEAKER_09 (01:20:45):
That I think what was special about it is it seems
like, you know, we're standingthere with this iconic band for
Chileans who are saying to us,This is the music of our
childhood.
And here's us who are not fromhere, way up in the front,
taking a spot.
I'm like thinking for a moment,ooh, we almost don't belong
here.
Like, we should give this spaceup to people who've been
watching this band.
We had no idea who they were.

(01:21:05):
And yet every single personaround us who was pumped, every
Chileno that was in that crowdwas like sharing something
about.
I mean, I met Rodrigo, I have noidea who his last name, what his
last name is, but he was sharingwith me this song is about
looking through your daughter'seyes.
And the young ladies next to mesaid, This is he just made a
comment about how this musicreflects the landscapes of the

(01:21:27):
Andes and to share in thatcollective like Chilean vibe and
be so welcomed into it waspretty amazing.
So it was a another and let'snot forget that that concert was
put on in Torres Del PineNational Park.

SPEAKER_16 (01:21:45):
Has that ever been done in the rain with a small,
like intimate audience with thebiggest band in Chile?
Yeah, yeah.
I asked Shannon about that onthis uh event spotlight.
How did that all come together?
And even he said I wasn't quitesure how they managed to pull
this off.
But this was just how special anevent like this is to come to a
place like Chile and have thetourism board and everyone work

(01:22:06):
so hard to create these pre-tripexperiences and then also be
able to create this epic event.
So um I'm keen to make sure thatthat uh our listeners also know
where to connect with youbecause obviously we're
definitely keeping in touchbecause I feel like I'm like um
you're my new uh travel friend,and I cannot wait for next
year's ATTA summit, which getsannounced in a moment.

(01:22:28):
Our listeners already knowbecause Shannon was kind enough
to reveal, since I'm gonna postthis after uh the event closes
today.
Um so I think you might havesome idea, but uh we'll we'll
save it for that announcement.
But I couldn't be more excitedto have you guys because like
I'll I'm partly giving this awayby the virtue of the fact that
um it's gonna be in Canada,that's all I'm gonna say, and

(01:22:48):
you can find out the rest and gocheck out the website.
Um, but to have that group comefrom Chile to Canada where I'm
based, and for us to ride again.

SPEAKER_09 (01:22:57):
Yes, yeah, we're gonna do it.
It would be and we have to makeClaudia's dream come true
because she's this is she doesshe deserves it.
We need to make it exactly.

SPEAKER_16 (01:23:04):
We need to give her and Fernando the hosting
experience that they deserve andmake them actually the guests
this time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:10):
Yes.

SPEAKER_16 (01:23:11):
So um, no, but Nina, I so enjoy your company, and
like I've just I've thisconversation could go on for
another hour.
Maybe we need to startco-hosting some episodes
together.
I'm like, like, um but yeah, uh,I want to make sure that any of
our listeners that want tocollaborate with you in some
way, please let all of ourlisteners know where best to
find you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:23:28):
The best place to find me is on Instagram.
I'm at Nina Khan.
So it's N-I-N-A-K-Han, H-A-H-N.
And you can also find me onLinkedIn, same handle.

SPEAKER_16 (01:23:38):
Cool.
Thanks so much, Nina.
It's been such a pleasuregetting to know you over the
course of the last week.
And yeah, I look forward tokeeping in touch.
This is like, this is not a seeyou later.

SPEAKER_09 (01:23:46):
This is like uh just the beginning.
We still have the night.

SPEAKER_16 (01:23:48):
Yeah.
Oh, thanks again.

SPEAKER_09 (01:23:51):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_16 (01:23:53):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Kyla Yu,
who is based in LA, and I hadthe chance to e-bike across a
beautiful part of Patagonia withher over the last week.
So we joined the PSA, thepre-summit adventure together.
So it was a it was a delight tomeet her, and we had so much fun
together, that entire crew thatweek.
And so I really wanted her tojoin the podcast because as I

(01:24:16):
got to know uh Kyla over thecourse of the week, she's an
author, she's a content creator,she's a writer, she does, she
does, she writes uh travelarticles, she's got that and
she's got a book that she's justpublished.
And anyway, I found more abouther each day, and I want all of
her listeners to know uh moreabout you, and I'll see what
brought you to ATTA.
So thanks for joining us on thisepisode of Travel Trans.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:38):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_16 (01:24:40):
For sure.
Now, so I know I introduced youas an author there, but clearly
you're so much more.
Like you're an author, but youdo so much.
You're also, this is the otherthing I learned about her.
She's an extraordinary musician,like a vocalist, and you like
led retired.
Retired.
But still, you had that you knowincredible part of your life as
well.
So anyway, I I found your wholejourney so fascinating.

(01:25:01):
But yeah, tell us a little bitmore about who you are and and
how you ended up here at ATTAand on this PSA together.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:07):
Yeah, it's very random, right?
But yeah, I kind of justdiscovered that people can get
paid to travel on trips aroundthe world, and I figured out how
to do it.
Good gig.
But I was literally on a trip inthe Maldives like a year ago,
and three of the journalistswere like, We just got back from
the ATTA, and they were soexcited about it, and I'd never
even heard of it before.

(01:25:27):
So I went and appliedimmediately after I got home,
and then here we are.

SPEAKER_16 (01:25:32):
That's amazing.
But in terms of your backgroundprior to ATTA, this is where
like I'm like, this is what Isay, you do so many things, and
clearly um it's fantastic foryou to be here because you've
been sharing some of the storiesand you obviously write travel
articles.
Um, but tell us a bit about yourdiverse background.
You're Taiwanese American.
That's one thing, other thing Igot a chance to learn about you
in the past week.
Um and I'm intrigued about yourbook, and I've already told a

(01:25:54):
few of my colleagues about it.
Um, but so yeah, tell us alittle bit more your about your
background, your diversebackground in in media.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:01):
Yeah, I mean, from the entertainment industry,
yeah.
It's very random.
I think I started off in likethe import car show scene, which
is like normal people would knowit as fast and furious, like
those, you know, the racingthing, but it was very big in
the Asian American communityspecifically.
And then I dabbled in someacting and then in some music,

(01:26:23):
and then eventually got to here.

SPEAKER_16 (01:26:25):
That's incredible.
And you're based in LA and yougrew up in.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:29):
I grew up in like the inland empire, and now I
live in Hollywood, and I'm yeah,I love California.
I love LA.

SPEAKER_16 (01:26:35):
Yeah, you know, you're so LA because I was just
like I was like I'm a quickattempt.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:40):
Like, what is this girl doing on this PSA?
That's literally what everyonewas thinking.

SPEAKER_16 (01:26:47):
But clearly you love travel.
So your love of travel camefirst.
You love traveling, and then youdecided to start writing about
travel.
How did you make thatconnection?

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:54):
So I toured around in the band for a long time, and
we got to go to all theseexciting places, and I was
stressed out the entire time andlike lack of sleep, and you
never really got to see thedestination.
So I really fell in love withthat like touring aspect.
But then afterwards, um, I juststarted a blog with like the
content from the band, like atravel blog.

(01:27:17):
And then eventually I metjournalists and thought they
were way more legit.
So I decided to figure out howto be one.

SPEAKER_16 (01:27:24):
So you went legit.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:26):
That's a blogging's dead now.
Yeah.
It was like not a thing.

SPEAKER_16 (01:27:30):
Well, and also um, the book.
I want to touch on that as wellbecause I found the concept so
fascinating.
This was like after I met uhKyla the next day, I was um we'd
connected on Instagram, and thenI was seeing all of your uh and
I was like, but next day I'mlike, oh my god, you're a you've
written a book, and then thenext day I'm like, oh my god,
you're like a musician.
I was like, each day there waslike another major uh
revelation.
Um but tell everyone about thebook you've just published.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:52):
Yeah, it came out in August, and it's called
Fetishized Reckoning with YellowFever, Feminism and Beauty.
And it's kind of just about howthe American media fetishizes
and oversexualizes Asian women.
So I broke down like media thateveryone's familiar with, like
Memoirs of a Geisha and HirozukuGirls and Fast and Furious, and
how these movies perpetuatedthis idea.

SPEAKER_16 (01:28:14):
Yeah, and I've seen the pickup has been like you got
an article in the New YorkTimes, a great review, and um,
and obviously the number ofpeople that it seems to be
resonating with.
I was seeing some of the clipsof other Asian Americans or that
um also were like connectingwith their their culture and
their history and also not uhhaving a much better
understanding, the fact thatyou've shared this as a as a
memoir on your story, andespecially being like a

(01:28:36):
beautiful lead singer of a bandon stage, the experiences you
had, um, and I haven't read thebook yet, but I have some uh
idea from our conversationsabout some of the things that
you touch on, and uh clearlyit's resonating with a lot of
other Asian American women.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:50):
Well, it's just crazy because all everyone,
every Asian woman in Americaknows about the Asian fetish,
but there's never been like afirst-person book on it, which
is crazy.
But I think it's because nobodyreally wants to speak out like
that much about it.
But yeah, I'm just the one who'slike embarrassing my family, I
guess.

(01:29:10):
My poor family.

SPEAKER_16 (01:29:13):
Well, I'm sure ultimately they will see the
benefit as they realize just howmany people um connect with your
story and what you're sharing.
So I'm really excited to seewhere that where that goes for
you.
But yeah, let's uh I guess talkabout our PSA and I want to talk
about the event here as well.
And so, how did you end updeciding?
Because it was so funny, weended up realizing that uh our
motivations for taking the tripwere quite similar.

(01:29:33):
Like, how do we both end uphere?
But um tell all of our listenershow you ended up on the PSA and
deciding to do the cycling tripbecause that's not something
you've done before.
You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:41):
Well, the thing is, I don't like hiking.
But I like riding a bike.
And I was like, how hard couldit possibly be to ride a bike?
And I I'm researching an articlefor this and looking at the
trends, and people like cyclistscall it a treacherous road.
So it's like considered hardeven by seasoned.
Cyclists, but mind you, they'regoing on like mountain bikes

(01:30:03):
without e-bikes.
It helps tremendously.
But I'm like a girl with likeeyelash extensions and hair
extensions.
Like I told the girls thisbecause you guys can't relate,
but when I was going down thehill, the eyelashes are like
going into my eyes.
I was like, this is a hazard.
But it was like there were acouple of days of just like

(01:30:26):
breathtaking beauty scenery likeendless.
Like it was incredible.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (01:30:32):
Well, Kyla knows I was joking that I was the only
man in uh the person man enoughto ride an e-bike and that we
were like the e-bike clubtogether.
There was um there was uh threewomen and myself, and the four
of us were like e-bike unite.
We rode together, we set thepace for the uh for the group
because we forced everyone elseto try and keep up to our our
pace.
But you came at it with similarmotivations to me, which is that

(01:30:54):
I was intrigued to see thenatural beauty from a bike.
I'm not a cyclist.
The e-bike obviously made uh allthe difference for both of us.
I could not have done it withoutno, there's no way.
Yeah, and Louisa on ourdiscovered that after the first
day, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:06):
Yeah, there was a woman and I spoke to her while
we were sitting there.
She's like, I just got amountain bike, and I was like,
And yeah, she went up that firsthill and she was like, forget
it.

SPEAKER_18 (01:31:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she was from Germany.
She was uh uh lovely as well,but yeah, she clearly made the
right decision to switch up tothe e-bike and then have.

SPEAKER_16 (01:31:23):
That's exactly it.
Um but tell about a fewhighlights from from that trip.
The one thing I was just gonnasay too on this topic is that I
found it so invigorating, justthe fresh air in that scenery to
and to be on a bike that I don'twouldn't have had that
experience.
I wouldn't have had hiking, oryou know, you could see some of
the views from a car, but itwouldn't it'd be totally
different without the wind goingthrough your hair and like and
and being out on a bike all dayand stopping and having lunch

(01:31:46):
outside and having like you knowa hot tea or coffee.
And it's there's something aboutthe physical activity and just
the joy.
Like at the end of the day, Ifelt so good.
Like that was just Yeah, thatI've accomplished something.
Yeah, we did accomplishsomething.
We did it.
We've never done it before.
No, totally, yeah.
So I'd love to hear our, and I'msure our audience too, uh, a
couple of highlights from youbecause they're hearing it from
me.
But that's one of one of the uhseveral reasons I wanted to have

(01:32:06):
you on this because I'm I thinkthat it's an opportunity for
more people to discover cyclingtrips because we're not the
prototypical I will go onanother one for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:15):
And mind you, any trip we go on after this is
gonna be so easy.
Yeah.
This is a hard one.
But um, I think like the firstday was so hard because because
of the weather, we had to switchup the schedule and we had the
hardest day first, and it waspretty much an uphill climb the
whole way, and also wind likethat knocked me into a fence at

(01:32:37):
some point.
But like the first day I was soterrified going down the steep
hill, but by the end I was likecoasting down, like like even
cycling faster.
So I thought that was ahighlight, like just like
getting braver throughout.

SPEAKER_18 (01:32:51):
For sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:52):
Yeah, and also food tastes better in in the open
air, right?
Definitely when it's beingcooked for you for meals.

SPEAKER_16 (01:33:00):
Remind me, were you uh the the brief landslide that
occurred to highlight your pointof yeah um was that ahead of you
or behind you when thathappened?

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:07):
I was behind, yeah.

SPEAKER_17 (01:33:09):
It was you came up to it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:10):
Yes, it was uh Louisa and Nina at the front who
saw it happened yes.

SPEAKER_16 (01:33:15):
And it was uh there had to be the same uh major
storm.
We had one day where we couldn'tride, uh, which was perfect for
me because it was like after thefirst day and I kind of needed a
reset day.
And we both like we were stayingin the same pl um lodging, and
so each of us got uh like tohave a um a down day, and then
the next you know, we were backat it.
But that um I know a few peoplehad commented that maybe it was

(01:33:36):
the sonic boom from me passingso fast at the beginning that I
that I caused a landslide behindme.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:44):
And another highlight was all the friendly
animals, yeah.
And like so many stray dogs, butthey were well fed.

SPEAKER_16 (01:33:51):
Yeah, they were healthy and like yeah, there was
no um and we didn't see anypumas, at least at least not
like uh we saw warning signsthat we could get tackled by a
puma on a big thing.
And the condors flying overhead,too.
That was okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:06):
But the condor's a really every time they're like a
condor, I saw like a speck inthe distance.
I was like, cool.

SPEAKER_16 (01:34:13):
It's gonna carry you off your bike.
And obviously, the two thecouple that led the company, uh
Fernando and Claudia just likejust so passionate and so
caring.
Absolutely.
That made all the difference forme.
Like the fact that theyreassured me to take the trip in
the first place, and that firstday is you know when my e-bike
battery decided to give up, andFernando never gave up on me and

(01:34:36):
made sure that I finished thatfirst leg, and it made all the
difference.
I felt I like I reallyaccomplished something and I
really pushed myself that daybecause yes, it is hard to ride
five kilometers with a bike thatweighs 25 kilograms, mainly
uphill.
Um, but somehow I managed to getthere, and that set the tone for
me, and it definitely made thedifference that he stayed with
me and that he offered me hisbike, which I didn't uh didn't

(01:34:57):
take, but um but then here weare at ATTA.
So we have this incredible PSAtogether that with a group that
we'll obviously clearly stay intouch with, and with one of you
know many tour operators herethat have put a lot of time and
effort into making sure thateveryone that comes to ATTA had
this special experience.
And um, but now we're here atthe conference and we're like on

(01:35:18):
day two, I guess, of theofficial conference.
Uh love to hear some of yourobservations so far and kind of
what stood out to you about yourvery first ATTA conference or
ATWS World Summit.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:29):
I didn't realize it was so big.
I thought it was like maybe liketwo, three hundred people, but
I'm hearing it's 700.
So just the organization ofeverything.
And I think the highlight isthat everyone's really friendly
and they're trying to meet youand they're being welcoming.
Because you could go to someother conferences where it's a
little bit snobbier, but that'snot the vibe here at all.

SPEAKER_16 (01:35:50):
No, exactly.
Yeah, and I know you've beenattending a number of the
sessions.
Has there been any interestingones that stood out to you?
The speakers or the contentthat's been particularly
interesting for you?

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:58):
Yeah, I mean, definitely Nina's, obviously,
because it was like contentcreation and I do content
creation, but it was easy.
It was interesting to see thedifferent takes because they had
like a journalist and then likea content creator, and they were
debating.
So it got a little bit spicy atone point.
Were you there?

SPEAKER_16 (01:36:14):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:14):
I oh you were there for a little bit of an argument.
Yeah.
I love how good.

SPEAKER_16 (01:36:18):
Well, those stages of debate, so I mean yeah, they
they lived up to theexpectations.
Um, and then over the course, Iguess we have one more day
tomorrow.
Um, there's activitiesthroughout the evening.
Uh is there many other surprisesthat have uh clearly the
community that comes together isso unique and special about
ATTA, at least from myperspective.
Um, what else has stood out toyou with your first ATTA?

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:39):
Well, I think I just expected to meet a bunch of
South American operators, whichI definitely wanted to meet with
too, but there's been so manyoperators from all around the
world.
So it's been great just likemeeting all kinds of people from
different places.

SPEAKER_16 (01:36:53):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
I they they uh I can't believethe number of international
guests in addition to like allthe South Americans that are
here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:37:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (01:37:00):
And um uh people are gonna find out where it is next
year.
People on our podcast will havejust found out from Shannon.
But I can't say anything to you,but I do know.
I do know.
I'm now sitting across from Kylawho I'm excited about.
Yeah, very excited about.
Yeah, no, it's gonna be it'sgonna be amazing.
So I can't say anymore, but uhour listeners now know you're
gonna find out tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:19):
Um, but they're gonna make a big announcement.

SPEAKER_16 (01:37:21):
Yeah, they make a big announcement, yeah.
Um, but are you gonna come back?
I guess that's big.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:26):
Yes, oh, the other part is how many returneys there
are.
For sure.
That's like a surprise, and Iwill definitely be back if
they'll have me back.

SPEAKER_16 (01:37:33):
Oh, that's awesome.
I'm sure they will.
I know you're gonna write aboutthis.
Like uh, so I want to make surethat all of our listeners can
find out more information aboutyou, whether it be on your
social channels or you know,being able to order the book.
And again, just so you have gotso much to offer, where would be
the best places for people toconnect with you after hearing
our conversation?

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:50):
Yeah, my name's Kyla Yu, and it's spelled K-A-I-L-A,
and that's my name on mywebsite, my social media, and
everything.

SPEAKER_16 (01:37:57):
Cool.
And that's the best place toconnect with you, obviously,
Instagram.
Like that's where I've seen someof your uh posts from the trip
and everything else you've gotgoing on.
But no, it's been a realpleasure to meet you.
It's been so much fun ridingtogether for the last week.

SPEAKER_04 (01:38:10):
Like a great, amazing group.

SPEAKER_16 (01:38:12):
Yeah, I feel like we're old friends now.
Like that that that WhatsAppchat is gonna carry on long
after this trip.

SPEAKER_04 (01:38:17):
I think we warriored through that.

SPEAKER_16 (01:38:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we're gonna we have ourbattle scars from that
experience.
But no, it's been from certainlyfor me, this conference, one of
the highlights was getting achance to meet you and be a part
of that group.
Yes, I do.
No, no, I didn't I wasn'tfishing for a compliment.
Don't think that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:38:35):
I was actually I was I it was legitimately like I've
been on a lot of a lot of presstrips, and that was an amazing
group.

SPEAKER_16 (01:38:42):
Totally, yeah, exactly.
That's like I've done a lot oftraveling, and you rarely get a
group dynamic that is that umstrong and fun.
Like it's just you he had alittle bit of everybody and they
just really um fuse together asa as a as a group so well.
So yeah, we had all of ourevenings, there were so many big
laughs, and it was like it wasyou know, it's this whole idea
of transformative travel.
This is what we and that'scertainly what I needed.

(01:39:03):
I definitely, you know, havingour kids just go off to
university.
I was really looking forward tothis trip as uh an opportunity
to kind of get out and and bedistracted and just be able to
have something else to focus on.
And I had that cycling and thenmeeting new people and seeing
this destination.
So uh I'm glad it was obviouslyuh uh similar for you.
But yeah, thank you so much formaking the time for this, and I

(01:39:24):
look forward to keeping in touchand seeing you at the next ATTA.

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:26):
Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_16 (01:39:29):
I'm now excited to sit down with a great friend of
mine, someone that I've known inthe industry for many years.
He worked at G Adventures, healso worked at Tour Radar, and
he gave an absolutely incredibleopening keynote today on the
final day of the ATTAconference.
And I was so excited to havethis time together to bring him
onto the podcast to share thehighlights from his session.

(01:39:52):
Many people know my friend Azaz,he's based in Toronto, he's got
a lovely British accent, asyou'll hear, and he's a huge
football fan, proper football,not soccer.
And uh and I say proper footballis in uh Premier League, and
he's a massive Liverpool fan.

SPEAKER_14 (01:40:09):
Correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (01:40:10):
And uh and he was even rocking, he always has the
coolest uh football jerseys.
But yes, Azaz, welcome back toTravel Trends.
Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_14 (01:40:18):
Thank you, mate.
Um, I appreciate the intro.
Lovely as always, and umdelighted to finally be on the
show.

SPEAKER_16 (01:40:24):
It's yeah, buddy.

SPEAKER_14 (01:40:25):
Um it's been cool.
We've worked in a few differentcapacities, so it's good to be
on the show, and thank you forthe wonderful intro.

SPEAKER_16 (01:40:31):
Yeah, well, and I just want to add to that, like
I'm gonna say one more thing,and this is where you know, good
people know good people in thisindustry, and it's one of the
things that uh even on myjourney, uh Azaz has uh helped
me as I was working on differentprojects, and I reached out to
him because he was into footballand I didn't understand that.
I was working with Dharma and aproject, and he was there for
me.
He was like, we had coffees, westill actually need to go out

(01:40:52):
and have dinner together.
Um, at his time, it's tourradar.
He was a big uh supporter oftravel trends and the AI Summit.
Like it's just like, and again,like we have many close friends
in common, and I think that'sjust like a testament to the
people in the industry that arejust there for each other and
realize that we go fromcompanies to company, like we're
in like our but over the arc ofour career, we always remember

(01:41:14):
the people that were there forus on our journey.
And you've been there for me,and I absolutely will continue
to be there for you, man.
So know that.
But let's let's talk about whatbrings you here because that's
the coolest thing that you'reliterally giving a keynote on
stage at ATTA.
So tell everybody what yourkeynote was about today.

SPEAKER_14 (01:41:31):
Uh, interestingly enough, um, the keynote is
something that's very close tomy heart and and things that I
have worked on this year withTor Radar as well.
So big shout out to them.
Um, love my time there, andlove, big love to the team as
well.
Um, mate, the truth is um astravel marketing starts to

(01:41:52):
unfold, uh, we just have to besuper with it, to be honest with
you.
I think travel marketers havegot this um gift and a curse
where we have the most amazingassets in the world, everyone
loves our product.
If you think about it, peopleare actually not just giving up
big money, but they're alsogiving their most valuable asset
per year, which is their timeoff to go and travel.

(01:42:16):
And that's amazing.
That there's so many goodelements to that, but every now
and again I do notice that thereare curves in the industry where
there is the potential to um forus to get left behind a little
bit with where the latest trendsare going with um marketing for
sure, but certainly social mediamarketing as well.

(01:42:37):
Um, so a lot of my um keynotetoday was about how uh we need
to ride the current wave ofmarketing and in 2025 going into
2026, that's not basing astrategy on AI, that's catching
up and rooting it verycontextually in social media, or
as what many experts like GaryVaynerchuk are calling now,

(01:43:00):
interest media.

SPEAKER_16 (01:43:01):
Well, I the the crowd erupted at the end uh of
Azaz's presentation today, and Idid post a few clips on uh
Instagram as well for thosepeople who want to check it out.
But I and and hopefully I knowit was recorded so other people
can see it on the uh and I'llI'll find out for sure uh on put
it into this episode so thatother people can watch your
keynote because it was a fullhour long and it was so packed

(01:43:25):
with content, and it was clearlyyou had the room wrapped, and
then at the end it was just likethere was like you know, you're
getting cat calls, and like itwas just like people were
hooting and hollering, andthat's a great sign.
And those weren't just yourfriends, those were people,
those are new fans, right?
It's just like so um that musthave felt pretty cool, right?

SPEAKER_14 (01:43:42):
Yeah, yeah.
It was um a lot of hard workwent into it, and you know, when
you're at a conference, you kindof want to go first, uh, you
want to get it out of the wayand then enjoy the conference.
But obviously, I got an amazingslot to open up the last day,
um, which was obviously a bigprivilege and an honor.
Uh, but yeah, it was always onthe back of my mind.
So I was working away.
So yeah, to get the applause atthe end, especially was very

(01:44:06):
gratifying.
So, you know, the travelindustry, we're all such um
gracious folks and love tosupport each other.
So yeah, it was super cool toget that.

SPEAKER_16 (01:44:14):
Well, let's walk through a few of the get the big
takeaways from your session.
And I'm looking at some of theuh the photos I took from the
slides because I hadn't seenyour presentation yet.
And as you mentioned, like youput so much time and effort into
this, and I'd love to be able toshare it with our listeners if
that's okay with you as well,because I'm sure after this
people will be very interestedto understand you mean you're

(01:44:34):
such an expert in this space,and you've led community um for
a number of travelorganizations, and there's very
few people that get what ittakes to build community, and
even the example with the workthat you do um with the
Liverpool Football Club, that'sa pure example of community.
And one of the things you and Ihave connected on in the past
was the idea that you know whenyou wear your football jersey,

(01:44:57):
you know, you're you know,you're appealing to your tribe,
and all of a sudden other peoplecome up to you on your travels
to tell you that you love that.
But you don't just do it atLiverpool, you like you're at
the World Cup and you're wearingall these different jerseys, and
you have actually let's justmention that you have the most
incredible collection offootball jerseys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_14 (01:45:14):
So how many do you have now?
Uh the last time I counted, Iwas I I've gone past 700.
There are they're not all athome.
Um, some are obviously instorage.
You know how small Torontocondos can be.
Uh, but yeah, I I have severalhundred.
Uh yeah, so from England, it'salways Liverpool.
I do have to say that.
The only English team I willsupport and rock the jersey off

(01:45:37):
is Liverpool Football Club, mymy religion in a way.
Uh, but yeah, I have to say,nothing for me opens doors more
on my travels than the footballshirts I wear.
You know, we were just talkingabout the fact that I I don't
drink, so that's one of thethings that people are always
able to bond over, and andthat's not something that's part

(01:45:59):
of my life, but something thatis part of my life is is the
football, is the soccer jerseys.
It is the biggest sport in theworld for a reason.
And what's super cool is uh justthis trip in Santiago, I
actually wore two old vintagejerseys.
One of them, which I actuallywore today, um, which I'll touch
on in a second, uh, is one ofthe most popular jerseys in

(01:46:24):
Chile's football history, whichis the first time or one of the
biggest times they qualified forthe World Cup, which was World
Cup 1998.
So that shirt in Santiago inparticular got so much
attention, and to the pointwhere my broken Spanish couldn't
even handle it.

SPEAKER_16 (01:46:41):
Tell everyone, because if they look at the
photos, they can see thatjersey, and I said you
afterwards.
I'm like, no way, where did youget that from?
So just explain that Chileanfootball jersey you're wearing
today.

SPEAKER_14 (01:46:49):
Yeah, I've all I've just always been a collector, so
it's a huge thing now in thiswave of collectibles.
Definitely has come out of COVIDfor sure.
I think people were at home andum a lot of people just started
collecting everything, liketrading cards and all sorts of
vintage stuff.
I'm actually a lifelongcollector, so funny story.

(01:47:10):
Um, I was I bought my first, Igot my first football shirt for
my seventh birthday present.
But what was really funny was Ichose to be a Liverpool fan.
My dad, who emigrated fromPakistan, was a staunch
Manchester United fan, and theyare rival clubs.
But I wanted a Liverpool shirtand aged six, turning seven, I

(01:47:31):
said to my dad, I want aLiverpool shirt, and he's like,
Absolutely not.
I am not buying you a Liverpoolshirt.
And my mom was like, uh, if youdon't, I will, kind of thing.
He wants what he wants.
And to be to be honest, I neverstopped collecting after that,
so it's a long-term passion.
Um, I probably don't buy as manyas I used to now because the
prices have gone ridiculouscoming out of COVID.

(01:47:53):
So I've had that chili jerseyfor a very long time, and um,
yeah, I have to say it's um whatyou call in in this sub-genre of
collecting, it's what you call agrail, which means it's very
hard to get hold of.
And um, yeah, I wouldn't Iwouldn't part with that one.

SPEAKER_16 (01:48:09):
Yeah, I can understand why.
So that's so let's go back toyour presentation because I'm
really keen for our listeners tobe able to understand before
they get access to it, look thevideo.
Um, I don't want to leave themwanting.
So I want uh to highlight so thebig takeaways.
So I was starting to look at ummy um my takeaways from your
presentation, and you know, oneof the things you talked about
was riding the culture wave andand highlighting how to adapt to

(01:48:32):
these trends, but that was oneof uh several takeaways.
So let's start at the beginning.
Yeah, like what you wanted andand and just quickly walk
through what the big takeawayswere.

SPEAKER_14 (01:48:40):
Absolutely.
So what I wanted to give theaudience was five key takeaways
to shape their marketing for2026, and they can start it in
2025.
I wanted to be really specificand say, I am not talking about
predicting the future.
Um, this isn't about AI atscale, it's certainly not what's
your metaverse strategy.

(01:49:00):
This was certainly in 2026, whatcan you work on?
So two of them were strategictakeaways, and then three of
them were tactical.
Obviously, the tactical ones canpoint to the strategy, but at
the same time, they are somewhatstandalone too.
So the two strategic ones,number one, embrace the rise of

(01:49:20):
interest media.
This time last year, this wascalled the TikTokification of
social media, but it has its ownum platform agnostic name at
this point, and it's embracedthe rise of interest media.
So, interest media is whatmarketers are calling this
latest incarnation of socialmedia, which it's the same

(01:49:40):
thing, it's the same platforms.
However, since TikTok came withtheir funky, super cool,
targeted algorithm, and everyonefollowed suit, you no longer
need to be following a brand, acreator, an account to actually
be served their content, andit's completely changed the game
because now those platforms thatare vying for your attention,

(01:50:03):
they're battling for yourattention, they are serving
content to you based on what youare interested in, and it's a
huge opportunity.
Number two, storytelling in thealgorithm era.
So everyone talks about AI thisand AI that, and of course, AI
is amazing, and um, I've had thepleasure of using it myself, but
also seeing some amazingtalented people this year using

(01:50:26):
it firsthand.
Um, but the biggest algorithmsthat marketers need to be aware
of right this minute, um, aswell as the ones that we're all
using to be more efficient, areis the AI that is in the
algorithms of these bigplatforms.
So, what Meta through Facebookand Instagram, Google on
YouTube, and uh Snapchat andeven TikTok, LinkedIn, all of

(01:50:51):
these um big platforms aredoing, is they are using AI to
serve you this content.
So, what that means is my secondbig strategic takeaway was
storytelling in the algorithmera, meaning you have to know
how to tell your story, usuallyum including a snippet in the

(01:51:12):
first three seconds on how totell that story in the algorithm
era, because if you don't, umyou'll be invisible, and that's
the gift and the curse of thisnew wave of social media.
The interest media is not onlydoes it open you up to all
people that aren't followingyou, but it's pretty cutthroat
and you have to know what you'redoing.

SPEAKER_16 (01:51:32):
Yeah, okay, so that's two.

SPEAKER_14 (01:51:33):
Um bring us on to number three.
Okay, so the three others wereum tactical.
So the first one was how tocollaborate with creators, um,
and I put in brackets smartlybecause I love creators, I think
that they are so um fundamentalto spreading the word of every
industry, actually.
Of course, travel, but there'ssome amazing creators in

(01:51:55):
fashion, in sports, in um in alldifferent facets.
So, in travel in particular, um,everybody who's working with
creators thinks the only waythat they can work with creators
is by sending them on thesetrips.
And when we're talking toparticularly smaller operators
here who just don't have thebudget to bring creators over,

(01:52:16):
host them, especially whenyou're talking about flights in
there too, um, they don't knowhow to work with creators.
So there is a whole um method tothe madness of working with
creators, including by all meansstarting small.
You know, um what I shared inthe keynote was there's
definitely examples where peopleusing the simple green screen

(01:52:37):
strategy, which is they're satat home, they're sat in a
studio, they're sat in a coffeeshop, and they actually use the
features within TikTok or orInstagram reels to actually have
a have a piece of content behindthem, and they just pop up in
the bottom corner or orsomewhere on the screen.
That is is it's possible forthat to get just as much
virality and exposure assomeone's content where they've

(01:53:02):
been flown halfway across theworld at a cost of five, six
thousand pounds or dollars.
So um there's and that's justone of the tools.
There's multiple ways on how youcan collaborate with creators,
and it's fundamental to gettingyour message out there because
they are the masters withconnecting to their audience.
Number four was amplify whatworks.

(01:53:23):
So I've all already mentioned acouple of times today that there
are um these really powerfulalgorithms and um using AI at
play, they're making sure thatyou are being served the exact
content that's gonna make youstay on the platform.
And amplifying what works meansyou should first be posting on

(01:53:45):
organic social, you should beseeing what works, and only then
you should be amplifying thatfor performance marketing.
Now, you don't just post thesame thing.
This isn't using the boostfeature, by the way, and um, it
is it is pure pay digital.
And I'm not saying that I'mdefinitely not saying that you
should just post the samecontent and put money behind it,

(01:54:07):
absolutely not.
You should post produce um maybethe first three seconds are
different, maybe there's a callto action, um, hovering above,
maybe the copy's different, butwhat that piece of content that
has gone viral or or somewhatrel virality is relative, but
that that piece of content thathas performed well, what that

(01:54:28):
has been proven to be is thatthat is a hit with your
audience.
So why wouldn't that be thebasis of your paid campaign
versus something that'scompletely made in a vacuum
where there are people who havejust decided that this is gonna
be your ad.
So amplify what works, organicsocial media is the best proof

(01:54:48):
of concept out there, and thenyou basically pour gasoline on
that.
The fifth one, um, which is uhsuper interesting in the travel
industry because as soon as yousay tap into trends and pop
culture, everyone thinks you'retalking about White Lotus, um
which which obviously is a hugehit show.

(01:55:08):
I love that show, however, umthere's so much more to it.
So um I I think that being ableto jump into trends, into pop
culture, really knowing what'shappening in the world is one,
if not the biggest, way toactually be seen and visible on
these platforms.
I joked on stage and saideverybody saw that Coldplay

(01:55:31):
video from this summer, butthat's just one example of many,
many examples this year wherethe internet just shuts down for
a couple of days and the onlything that's being served is a
certain piece of content.
Because right now, as much as itis an opportunity, you are
actually also going up againstall the other travel brands or

(01:55:54):
all the other brands in um anyindustry, but you're also
competing for attention with catvideos.
You don't want to be competingwith cat videos without a
strategy, you're also competingwith whatever Taylor Swift wants
to say.
Um, all of these things are partof the same ecosystem.
So tapping into trends andtapping into pop culture is a

(01:56:16):
huge way to hack the systembecause it shows that you are um
focused on really being presentin where everyone's hanging out.

SPEAKER_16 (01:56:25):
It's amazing, man.
You did it, you did it.
Those are the big five, butwe'll make sure that we share
the presentation, uh, theslides, and the uh video if we
can get access to it as well.
And so, you know, you absolutelykilled it today on stage.
And uh, you know, as we sit hereat the end of the conference,
uh, I know you have not onlybeen practicing and rehearsing,

(01:56:46):
we uh rode together in a taxiback to the same hotel
yesterday, and I was heading upto the Women in Travel Leaders
event.
You were going back to getready, and obviously it all paid
off today, so it was well worthit.
But I know you were making yourway around some of the other
sessions to get a kind of awhole feel of it.
You kindly popped into uh to mypanel yesterday.
But tell us, uh Azaz, what someof the other highlights and

(01:57:07):
takeaways have been for youbeing here at ATTA in Chile this
year, and also being a keynotespeaker, because that comes with
uh you know a high degree ofresponsibility.
And so um tell us a little bitabout your experience and what
are some of the other highlightsfrom being here this year.

SPEAKER_14 (01:57:21):
I think the big highlight for me is I've never
been to uh ATWS, which is theAdventure Travel World Summit
put on by ATT every every year.
Um, it has to be one of the mostwholesome conferences in the
world.
I have to say that just theconnection and the community
amongst everyone else is trulyoutstanding.

(01:57:43):
And I feel that um if you areone of us, like you said earlier
on in the podcast, if you're atravel person, you truly get it
as to how special it is to behere with um all the other
people.
Some of the highlights, the restof the highlights for me, from a
content perspective, yeah, Idefinitely loved your session.
I'm always a big I'm a huge DanChristian fan.

(01:58:05):
I think everyone, everyone knowsthat, and I will help and
support you in any capacity.
You mentioned a couple otherthings before, but they were all
honestly a privilege and anhonor to be part of.
So um if if someone's asking me,well, I'm never gonna say my own
thing, but if someone's askingme what was your standout
session, then I'm always gonnago Dan.
I'm a I'm a Dan Christian guy.

(01:58:26):
Um, and then you know just likeLiverpool, man.
You're loyal.

SPEAKER_18 (01:58:30):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_14 (01:58:31):
I am very loyal.
And then um, yeah, I think thatum the other there were other
sessions like workshop sessions.
I I was in one around AI, um,which was put on by Jason
Records.
It was super cool because yougot to see the full gamut of
where people think AI 101 is,and AI 101 is all over the

(01:58:55):
place.
And I do think that this wasprobably the same thing in the
mid-90s when the actual internetwas coming along.
People didn't really know what101 was.
But when we were getting a readof the room, some people thought
101 was literally writing yourfirst ever prompt, and other
people thought 101 was actuallyum putting Zapia together with a

(01:59:18):
bunch of three different LLMsand coming out with one re
result.
Like literally, someone thoughtthat was 101.
So that was super eye-opening.
The other thing I have to say islike all really good adventure
conferences, travel conferences,we don't just work hard, we play
so hard.
Um, so yeah, yesterday I wasn'table to get out there and um I

(01:59:40):
was focused on my practice, butthe day before, which was
Tuesday, everybody was out forwhat they call a DOA a day, and
I was not a dead on arrival,although I've got a story there.
It's a day of adventure.
So Tuesday was a day ofadventure, which is a break in
the conference where you pickone of um dozens of different
adventures.
So I actually picked DOA 1,which was Puma Trekking, and I

(02:00:05):
was 80 meters away from a Puma.
And yeah, I feel like nothingwill be a better highlight for
me from that perspective.
Because yeah, you look at theseApex Predators in the wild.
I can say I've never been yet ona safari in Africa.
I haven't been near a safaritiger safari in India.

(02:00:29):
And here I was, um, literally 80meters away from the apex
predator around here.
And um I don't think anythingwill be as life-changing as that
for me.

SPEAKER_16 (02:00:39):
Oh, that's incredible.
I'm glad you mentioned the dayof adventure and that highlight.
I saw so many differentexperiences to select from.
It was so difficult to choosewhat you do because you want to
do like all 20 of them.
Um, but that I see being here inChile, having that experience,
there's no other conference thatdoes that.
Like there were the pre-trip,um, the day of adventure, and it

(02:01:00):
makes all the difference.
Like it's a in you.
So I'm glad you mentioned thatit was in the highlights because
that for sure was the highlightfor me was the pre-trip.
And for people that loveadventure travel, you actually
get to walk the walk.
And it's exactly what you dowith your approach to this
industry and your presentation,is that you walk the walk.
So when you share those fivetakeaways, it's because you've
lived it, you've experienced it,and you've had such a great uh

(02:01:23):
deal of success being able toutilize those exactly those
skills in those previous roles.
So I want to make sure as we uhfinish off here, as I was, I
know we're on the cusp of 2026,and I want to make sure that
people can reach out to you andconnect with you because you are
such a great thought leader inthis industry, and you have so
much to offer, and I can't waitto see what you do next because

(02:01:44):
you've got such a bright future.
Um, tell everyone where peoplecan connect with you, and I just
want to give you uh the lastword today, man.

SPEAKER_14 (02:01:52):
Okay, so um the the best way to connect with me in a
professional setting is isLinkedIn.
So A-I-Z-A-Z, uh, not Aziz.
Um it is Azaz, and yeah, I'mAzaz Sheikh, S-H-E-I-K-H.
So find me on LinkedIn.
I would love to speak to youabout all things marketing,
travel, culture, um, and ofcourse football or soccer.

(02:02:14):
Um, so yeah, what's what's nextfor me is um I'm I'm looking
forward to to seeing where thisindustry goes.
I feel like once you get a biteof this travel industry, you
kind of always want to bearound.
And um, I think that I'm reallyexcited for 2026 because so much
is changing, and I think thatfinally there's some really good

(02:02:36):
work being done on everything Ispoke about today, and I'd love
to be around that.
Um, one thing I do have to sayreally quickly is a huge shout
out to Shannon Stowell, uh CEOof ATTA.
Um, you know, we're sitting heretoday at the conference, and it
wouldn't be possible without hispersonal invite for me to come
and speak here today.
So um I have a lot of love andrespect for him.

(02:02:58):
I literally called him thenicest person in adventure
travel.
Um, so present company excluded.
So um I have to give a hugeshout out to him.

SPEAKER_16 (02:03:08):
He's amazing, he's the real deal.
He's been on this uh podcast uhevent spotlight as well.
So people have heard fromShannon.
But yeah, you're absolutely spoton.
He's like he's the reason we'reall here.

SPEAKER_14 (02:03:17):
Yeah, exactly.
And um, other than that, um tobe honest, I think that um the
future's bright, and I'm I'mexcited to keep sharing my
thoughts and my leadership.
Um as well as being passionateabout marketing, I'm very, very
passionate about leadership,servant leadership, and um
continue, I want to continue tomake the impact that I am on not

(02:03:40):
just the industry, but also thepeople I get to work with,
because yeah, nothing fills mewith more joy than that.
Amazing.

SPEAKER_16 (02:03:47):
Well, thank you for your friendship, continued
support, collaboration.
And we started this podcast withChristine Tompkins and her
executive director, Carolina, aswell.
But what I talked with Chrisabout is the future, and we
picked up right from the factthat you know she was the CEO of
Patagonia and she stepped awayfrom that.
Who would ever consider doingthat for the opportunity of a

(02:04:10):
lifetime?
And her second act has been thatmuch more meaningful than her
first.
And I know exactly that's goingto be the same for you.
So I wish you continued success,my friend, and I look forward to
seeing you back in Toronto anduh go Blue Jays Go.
Go Blue Jays Go.
I now have the privilege to sitdown to and speak to two
incredibly inspiring co-foundersof a company called Godwana

(02:04:31):
that's based in Brazil, and it'sCamilla and Daniela, and Camilla
and I spent uh time yet togetheryesterday on stage with a really
inspiring session, and you weresuch an incredible part of that
conversation.
We've had a chance to meet on afew calls, and so I was
delighted that we have theopportunity to record here
together.
So, first of all, Camilla,welcome.
Thanks for being on TravelTrends.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04:50):
Thank you very much, then.

SPEAKER_16 (02:04:52):
And Daniela, welcome, and nice to meet you
here as well.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04:55):
Yes, nice to meet you too.
I'm very happy.

SPEAKER_16 (02:04:57):
Awesome.
No, I'm thrilled.
And I know for you guys it'slike a first podcast, and I want
to make this really meaningfuland special because you have
such an incredible story totell.
You know, this women-ledbusiness, you know, 25
employees, you are totallyself-funded, and uh getting to
know more and more about yourbusiness and then seeing you on
stage yesterday and the audiencereaction, your story resonates

(02:05:19):
with so many people here atATTA.
And that's one of the things Iwanted to mention, as you know,
when we were speaking on stage,that your business is much
closer to where people are inthe industry today and what
they're aspiring to.
So maybe Camilla, let's let's uhstart with you to just give a
bit of overview of Godwana andthe company that the two of you
have built.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:38):
Oh, yeah, thanks then.
Yeah, it was amazing to be onthe stage um and with two other
amazing people, Gonzalo andJenny.
Uh and yeah, the foundation ofGondwana was in 2001, so it's 24
years ago.
And of course, we have beenthrough a lot of changes and
transformations within this allthese years.
Uh, but definitely, so the ideawas to start Gondwana um to

(02:06:01):
share with the world thisamazing place where we live.
We live in Curitiba, is uh it isa city located in the south of
Brazil, and it has the mostpreserved area of Atlantic
rainforest in Brazil, so thelast reminiscent is pretty much
less than 7% that is left offrom the Atlantic rainforest.
So the idea was to um as as wehave been through a lot of

(02:06:23):
transformations uh withtraveling, so we believe that um
traveling is a such a powerfultool for transformation.
So we have decided that that wewanted to share that with the
world.
So uh the I the mission ofGondwana started with in this
idea of of sharing uh um thepowerful uh tool um that tourism

(02:06:46):
can be of transformation.
So um, and then we have decidedto start uh creating itineraries
in that area.
We were very romantic back then,so we were creating like a
10-day itinerary that would stayin the same area um and visiting
local communities, experiencinguh um uh things in the nature
and activities, um, but then ofcourse uh we never saw them

(02:07:09):
because they were too romantic.
So it was an amazing startbecause it also taught us that
uh we also could understand, weshould understand better uh the
market, and then we could weshould build itineraries that
would also resonate with whatpeople would love to live.
Uh so um within the next yearswe decided to expand a little

(02:07:31):
bit the areas that we wereworking in and then connecting
this place, which is amazing andunique, um, with other important
areas of Brazil.
Uh, but but actually, then itwas very important to mention
that we were the first umcompany in in Brazil that has
taken this place um to theworld.

(02:07:52):
So in the end, we were verysuccessful to put this place on
the map of many, many, manyinternational tour operators.
Uh, and indeed it is still avery special place.
But then Gondwana has beenthrough a lot of transformation.
So is it still our homeland?
Is it still one of the uh ourlet's say preferred areas uh to
be at?

(02:08:12):
That's where we live, that'swhere we still inspire everyone
that works in Gondwana as our umas the area where we started the
operation.
But uh commercially speaking, wewe are now present in 22 states
of Brazil.
Wow.
And Brazil, yeah, has 27.
So I mean uh uh we have beendoing much, much more uh back
then, but uh but the core of thebusiness and the and the and

(02:08:35):
this the idea is still there, uhuh right deep in our hearts and
souls.

SPEAKER_16 (02:08:39):
That's incredible.
And obviously, we're here inChile.
Brazil is very close, and uh,you know, of Argentina, Brazil.
I feel like there's such astrong connection with South
Americans and you know, seeingyou guys at the sessions, and
clearly, obviously, Gonzalo, whoyou mentioned, uh, he's based
here in Chile.
And so there seems to be a realuh cultural connection amongst

(02:09:01):
people from South America andalso a real desire around
sustainability given howbeautiful this part of the world
is.
And I have not been to uh whereyou're based, but I know Gabby
Stoll, who's been on thispodcast as well, and she was
telling me about the south ofBrazil and the island that she
lives on and how beautiful it isand how much she wants to spend
more time there.
And uh I can't wait to visit oneday.

(02:09:22):
But um, Daniela, obviously, thisis uh a huge passion for you.
And this is tell us a little bitmore about your role in the
business and also a little bitmore about that region because I
think people are gonna belooking it up on the map right
now to figure out where it isand then start looking at
pictures and going, like, oh mygod, it's so beautiful.
Uh but yeah, tell us a littlebit more about your background,

(02:09:42):
uh having either grown up thereor being from that region.

SPEAKER_06 (02:09:46):
Okay, thank you then.
Um actually talking aboutGundwanda Brazil is also talking
about the Atlantic Rainforest,because as Camila said, is that
is the place where we were uhborn and we were uh we were uh
actually inspired to be doingwhat we're doing today.
Yeah.
So uh if I if I go back in theyears, I can remember that I was
a very um idealistic person,really get in contact with

(02:10:10):
nature for the first time.
So the mountains over there arereally pretty, and the green
mountains, the coastal mountainrange, and you cross that from
the 900 meters high to the eightmeters high.
So we really get to themountains.
And uh the Atlantic rainforestis not as known as the Amazon
forest.
So I think this is one of thechallenges for me and Camila
because we want to put this onthe map.

SPEAKER_03 (02:10:32):
Sure.

SPEAKER_06 (02:10:33):
And we always uh really uh that has this big, big
uh uh challenge because theAmazon is so well known and that
there's really this importance,but the Atlantic rainforest also
is very, very important, it'svery beautiful.
I mean, the there's so many morespecies, like uh diversity in
the square meter than theAmazon, actually.

(02:10:56):
So the diversity of forests, thediversity of but the
biodiversity is really, reallyimportant for all the ecosystem
in Brazil, you know.
And uh we know that uh it's alittle bit harder to be promoted
as the Amazon, but this is ourpurpose at the moment, so we
really want to do that.
But it's really nice that we we,as Camilla said, we could put

(02:11:18):
this in the map for groups formany, many years.
So we're bringing internationalpeople every month to this area.
So I I really believe theyalready have like a big legacy
for the local people becausethey still look at us as an
example, as a reference that weyou could do it, we still could
do it, you know.
We really had like a chance totake a national geographic uh

(02:11:40):
ship into this area, which wasreally uh uh uh a really very uh
special moment for us becausethat's a very good, a very
important reference for themarket, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (02:11:52):
For sure.

SPEAKER_06 (02:11:53):
And I and I think it's it's nice to share with you
that uh I think Gondwana haslike this way of doing things.
It's not since the beginning, wewere very inspired of our own
experience, but also learningwith the things.
So today it's a very differentbecause we as we are getting
bigger and growing, uh we haveto be more strategic.

(02:12:16):
So we need to know the data, weneed to know the numbers, we
need to choose the right peopleto be in the right place.
But if you look in the back, itwasn't like that all the time.
So we were very organic and wewere always trusting uh a lot of
really what we believe is thatlike if you're doing well and if
you have like a good purpose andyou are committed with the

(02:12:39):
people, with the local people,with the nature, and you take
your responsibilities, I thinkit's really hard to do to not do
well, you know, then so this ispart of what we believe.
Yeah, this is really strong onus.

SPEAKER_16 (02:12:52):
Well, I want to ask you about that specifically
because I know I asked Camillaabout that on stage yesterday,
but Danielle, I'd love to getyour take on this as well,
because as you described, thisdestination is not well known.
And given that you are now goingto be introducing it to more and
more travelers around the world,you have an opportunity to do
that in the right way so thatpeople travel to this area of
the world with the rightintentions and they travel in a

(02:13:14):
sustainable way to make surethat if the the um the ecology
and um all the wildlife isprotected, and I know it's a
core part of your company.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat journey for you, because
clearly it is something that isvery special and meaningful for
you both, and that resonates.
I'm not and so tell us I'm verykeen for our listeners to
understand the journey thatyou're going on to make sure as

(02:13:37):
you encourage more people tocome that you do it in such a
way that is going to be apositive for the environment and
the community.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:44):
I think the first thing that people need to know
is that it's not everything setup, so it's not 100% ready as a
like a very um organized or um adestination that is already um
there's no four seasons thereyet.

SPEAKER_16 (02:14:00):
Yeah, yeah, there's no no exactly.
I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:03):
Yeah, that's a good thing if you have if you're open
to this.
Yeah.
So you need to be open for uhliving really authentic
experience, but in a in a veryuh genuine way.
So sometimes you can get to goto communities that are
fishermen communities in theislands.
So they're based in the uh uh inthe areas of the Superagui
National Park, which is alsoclose to Illia do Mel uh Island,

(02:14:27):
which is a really hot spot forthe Ponta Paranais State.
Yeah, uh, because it's wellknown, very desert and beautiful
beach.

SPEAKER_03 (02:14:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:35):
Uh but the the the people won't always be ready to
be speaking English with you, ofcourse.
Or even uh uh with four or fivestars hotel.
So you need to be ready to notbe looking for that, and also
but uh in the other way, you'regonna have opportunity sometimes
to be by yourself, all byyourself in uh in an island,

(02:14:56):
like na beach, walking and maybemeeting some of the fishermen
doing like their traditional wayof fishing, what we call uh the
taf the tahaf tahafa.

SPEAKER_05 (02:15:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (02:15:09):
Yeah, because there's this kind of uh fishing
traditional ways that it onlyhappens there, and uh you have
the opportunity to see that andit's not done for you.
It's really authentic.
It just happened to be therewhen you were there crossing
this beach.
So that's amazing.
This is some of theopportunities that you have, or
even doing like a canoeing tourwith a local fisherman, to do

(02:15:29):
going to like a very small riverinside of the mangroves because
it's really important.
Like the mangroves are areasthat are very important today
for the biodiversity, forkeeping the cleaning water of
this, all of this region.
And you see so many birds, yousee dolphins, and you see how
the local people are reallyconnected to this place because

(02:15:50):
they have a relationship withthe place.
And that's what I learned fromthis area.
You know, I learned that we cando uh also something to relate
it with the place, not justvisiting, but being gauge.
But I think this is the thingthat uh we really want also our
visitors to have the chance todo it, you know, be engaged with
the local people, being it withthe nature, uh, but not not in a

(02:16:15):
uh like in a in a position thatthey're really doing something
together, you know?

SPEAKER_16 (02:16:21):
Yeah.
Well it's really interesting isone of the things I was gonna
mention um with regards tosustainability that some, and I
know uh Camilla's listened toour episode from the Denver
Elevate Conference, and westarted that with Eric
Blatchford.
Eric Blatchford, many of ourlisteners may know who that is
either from uh previousconversations on our podcast,
but just for those who are notfamiliar, he's the first CEO of

(02:16:42):
Expedia.
He was um uh he's been a majorinvestor in various travel
companies, he ran A and K for anumber of years, and so he is a
real legend in the travelindustry.
And one of the things I askedhim about was sustainability to
kick off that episode, and hisview was it's table stakes or
it's essential.
To be here at ATTA, you have tohave sustainability at the core
of your business.
The two are you know incrediblyconnected.

(02:17:03):
And that's where Camellia, Iknow you spoke about this
yesterday.
Uh the one thing I'd love to getthe connection is between your
background with ATTA, because Iknow we've joined these calls
together, and we, you know, youyou were one of the success
stories, and you obviously youkindly mentioned both Julie and
Gonzalo as well, who were youknow excellent panelists and
also had amazing stories to tellfrom Fiji and from Chile.

(02:17:23):
But tell us a little bit moreabout how Godwana got involved
with ATTA.

SPEAKER_00 (02:17:27):
Amazing.
Yeah, so Gondwana, uh, we firststarted um uh associating
ourselves to Abeta, which is theBrazilian Ecotourism and
Adventure Travel Association.
So we started to get veryinvolved with that and in the
discussions about the publicpolitics that we needed for the
adventure travel sector inBrazil.
Uh, and then the ATTA has donetheir first event out of the

(02:17:51):
United States in 2008 in Brazil.
But then they had two events atthe same time.
So it was in I think it's in inScotland and also in Brazil.
So they they've done thattogether with Fabeta.
So it was my first contact withATTA, and then wow, being at the
first summit is always uh veryinspirational.

(02:18:13):
It is an amazing, it's anotherlevel of events.
So after that, we have beengoing to every summit uh until
Montecatini tell me, which is mywhich was my last one until now,
because then we had thepandemic, etc.
So we we couldn't attendanymore.
Um, but then and that's where uhwe started to get in contact
with At ATA.

(02:18:34):
And then as well, uh we have uhbecoming members, I think in
2010.
So we actually we hold the stampfor being uh venture champion,
which is this little stamp thatlittle no big stamp that they
gave to all the members that aremore than 15 years uh members of
ATTA.

(02:18:55):
And I was talking to Gustavoyesterday, and I think it's only
around 25 companies that havebeen that long with uh with the
association.
And then also I was invited tobe uh an ambassador for Latin
America.
It has been already, I think,around five years.
So uh I also have this honor asand this responsibility of

(02:19:17):
taking um ATTA to other members,educating, participating on
events, and being really uh anambassador for the association
is is incredible.

SPEAKER_16 (02:19:26):
That makes total sense.
Now I completely get it.
I was just like, and um and sogiven that journey that you've
been on with ATTA, 15 yearsbeing one of these success
stories, and now us being herein Chile for the second time,
I'm assuming you were here 10years ago then?

SPEAKER_00 (02:19:40):
Yes, we were, yeah, both of us.

SPEAKER_16 (02:19:41):
Oh, that's fantastic.
All right, so I'd love to hear,aside from our session, which
obviously was a huge highlight,I think, for both of us, um,
what are some of the otherstandouts from this year,
whether it's the speakers or thesessions you've attended, what
has been particularly specialabout Chile in 2025?

SPEAKER_00 (02:19:57):
Well, there's lots of things that are good about
it, TTA, but I I would highlightthe privilege of being in
Patagonia.
I think um being in the summits,it has allowed me to go to
places that some of them I'vedreamed on for my entire life,
and and then I finally realizingas as the Patagonia is for me,

(02:20:19):
but also has taken me to placesthat maybe I would never expect
to go, as for example, Namibia,which was also a very, very nice
summit.
So I think the first thing is ishaving the possibility of of be
coming to Patagonia and thenstaying here for a while because
we are doing the W trackingafter the summit, so I'm very
excited to do that as well.

(02:20:39):
So I think that's the firstthing.
The second thing for me then isto get out of the office.
Um as Danny said, we have beengrowing exponentially and very
fast these last two years afterthe pandemic, and uh, we have
been dedicating a lot of time tostructure the team, to really
expand the impact that Gondwanaum uh is doing, and then doing

(02:21:01):
lots of new processes.
So we have been a lot inside umour office and being outside and
reminding uh uh why we do whatwe do and reconnecting with this
very important part of dreaming,uh feeling the wind in our um in
our heads and also being on theoutdoors is something unique and

(02:21:25):
super special because we need toalways remember why we do what
we do, and the best way to dothat is live in it.
Yeah, so this is another thing,and then the third thing for me,
apart from well, themarketplace, which is good, and
and all the the speeches that weare handling, I think uh the
other one was um the privilegeas well to be on stage yesterday

(02:21:46):
because uh I maybe I neverdreamed about being on stage
sharing a story, although I knowwe are very uh important and
nice, we do a beautiful work.
But um for me yesterday, after,and this became after I was on
stage, it was like I was alwaysum very inspired to hear stories

(02:22:07):
about other people's journey andabout uh the company's histories
and challenges that they face.
But uh now being on stage andand being um also a possible
inspiration for other peopledefinitely was super big and it
was super nice, and to share thestage with uh Jenny and Gonzalo
and you it was it was such aprivilege.

(02:22:28):
And so for me, uh it's also abig thing to have the chance and
the opportunity to meet peoplelike these people that are here,
and uh that that maybe I wouldnever have the chance to meet if
I wasn't here in in doing whatwe do, you know.
So it really reinforces thepowerful encounters that
traveling can can can do to us.

(02:22:49):
Um so this is uh it's about thepeople, it's about the
community, it's about feelingfeeling the belonging that we
feel when we are here, becausewhat we do uh uh it really
matters, it really matters tothe world.
I was hearing someone say beforethat uh these trips can save
lives in a world that everyoneis so connected, that everyone

(02:23:09):
is so is running so fast fromplace to place, you know, uh to
have the possibility to stop andand see the beauty of life and
the beauty of nature and the andto encounter people and share
amazing experiences.
Sometimes it gives us the thethe the possibility to keep
living and to keep living morehappy and with more joy.

(02:23:31):
So it is super powerful.
And so I feel I think that thatis the the best part of being in
the summit, yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (02:23:39):
You've done an amazing job of summarizing and
highlighting so many uh aspects,and I think the human connection
for sure is ultimately you knowthat what's what what happened
when we were on stage and thereaction in the audience and
people came up to uh each of youafterwards.
It that it is that humanconnection that and I think that
is the difference in ourindustry.
We need to be together inperson, and so um, and that's

(02:24:02):
why even with this podcast to beable to share and showcase the
stories of the people that cometogether in the hope that more
people will join us next year.
And um, I have to be mindfulbecause I our listeners know
where we're going next year, andum, but it's gonna be announced
very shortly on stage, so we wecan't uh speak any more about it
at the moment, but I do hopethat many other people, I

(02:24:22):
obviously you guys are gonna beback.
Um but Danny, before we uh getall our listeners to f to learn
where they can find out moreinformation about Godwin, I'd
love to get your highlights aswell from being here at ATTA
this year because you guys havesuch a wonderful dynamic.
I mean, just to see you in theaudience, um, you were smiling
and engaging throughout thesession, and I spoke to you
afterwards because I could, andyou were you guys, you
compliment each other so well,and you're so supportive of each

(02:24:45):
other, and it's just like it'sjust such a lovely dynamic, and
you don't you don't always seethat in business partners, and
like you just you clearly wantthe best for each other and you
want the sun to shine out forthe other person, and I'm like
that's um anyway, I I that'swhat really stood out to me.
So I'd love to hear what yourbig takeaways were from the
event.

SPEAKER_06 (02:25:03):
Um well, I I have been being in ATTA Summit since
2015, so I was my last one inChile, actually.
Yeah, so it's good very specialto be here 10 years later.
And uh well, I have to startfrom my my day of adventure, of
course.
There's connection withPatagonia.
I really love Patagonia.
I have been here before, but inthe Argentinian side, so it's my

(02:25:25):
first time in the very south ofthe Chile.
And I always wanted to do ahorse riding, so I did it, and
it was fantastic because theythey they kind of separate the
groups, they wanted that were alittle bit more experts, and I
I'm one of them, so I had achance to really run in the
fields and with the wind in myface.

(02:25:46):
So it that that that promotesthis connection, doing something
that really takes us to theorigin of why we do that.
Why do we want to connect peoplewith nature, with the local
people, with the local stories?
So to be around the cowboys, howthey receive us at the at the
ranch was really special becausethey were all set up with these

(02:26:08):
beautiful horses with the flags,very, very uh proud of
themselves, you know?
Yeah.
So you want to see the localpeople being proud of themselves
when when they they want to bethey needed to be the
protagonists of all of this, andseeing that is really special
for me.

SPEAKER_03 (02:26:22):
For sure.

SPEAKER_06 (02:26:23):
And about the event, of course, uh it's always good
to meet people and to change toexchange uh ideas and also about
like the susifings and thechallenge that we're facing.
Yeah, and um I I I'm on the rowof the sustainability with
Gondwana at the moment, so I'mreally into the travel life
program sustainability process,and we have the chances to see

(02:26:46):
what there are other people arefacing as challenges, but also
finding solutions to deal withall of these uh supply chain
things.
How do we measure, how do weshare our values, how do we
share good practice with oursuppliers.
So this is one thing that wasgood because I could I could uh
kind of listen to other people,what they're doing, how they're

(02:27:07):
doing.
But of course, uh one of themost important moments was
seeing Camilla at the stage,yes, and then share your story,
the pictures when we were veryyoung.

SPEAKER_19 (02:27:16):
Yeah, that was so cute.

SPEAKER_06 (02:27:18):
That was so cute, yeah.
And the people were looking atme, oh my god, you're so young.
Yes, uh 24 years ago.
So yes, it's incredible.
It was very special, and and Ithink for me it was a very
special session, you know,because uh that there were
stories from the field, from thelook from people from the places
that they really live, and uhvery genuine, you know, uh the

(02:27:40):
the speech, the talks, and um uhall all uh opening the heart, as
you said, yeah, Celia Jenny.
So it was really touching, yeah,the the opportunity to see.
And of course, it's really umit's really amazing uh to have
the opportunity to share,inspire other people with our
own story, and also help us tosee more about it.

(02:28:01):
You know, you you you you youkind of have an insight that how
your business are really doingimpact in the world, you know.
So this is this is really good.

SPEAKER_16 (02:28:10):
Well, that's fantastic.
Well, I have two more questionsfor you.
I'm gonna ask one more of Dannyand then uh bring Camilla back
in to give us more informationabout where partners or
travelers can find out moreinformation.
But um, Danny, and if I can callyou Danny, I know you think I
refer to as Daniela, but I wasjust like all of a sudden I so
um uh one of the things I waskeen to know is you know your
plans for 2026 or even goinginto 2027 um as far as the the

(02:28:34):
types of trips, the partners,the like where is Godwana?
You talked obviously, Camilla,about the last two years just
being you know phenomenalgrowth, so it's good to step out
of it and be here.
Tell us a little bit aboutwhat's ahead for Godwana in
2026.

SPEAKER_06 (02:28:48):
Well, we we is uh we have uh BPP uh project, so we're
vesting a lot of people,product, and uh process.
Yeah, because there's no waythat you can grow without that.
We already know about it.
And so we're bringing a lot ofnew people to the team.
So it's something that we needto work on.

(02:29:09):
It's like how we share ourculture with these new people.
How do they get this feeling ofbeing in an adventure travel uh
trade market?
Because it's it's not it's notvery conventional, you know.
It's very hard to put people onthe trail without the feeling of
this.
And that's why also we broughtBeto because he Beto is our uh

(02:29:30):
market com uh market manager,and he we wanted him to be here
with us to get this feeling ofhow the how this world works,
you know, what are theinspirations of it?
Because that's what we want toput on the the on the track for
future also.
But I think it's about thestructuring then.
We need people, we need goodpeople, the right people in the
right places, we need to haveour process stabilized, and we

(02:29:53):
need, of course, we have thismain object to be certified on
the travel pro that travel.
Life uh sustainability program.
So this is a very uh big goalfor us.
And the other thing is that weuh of course looking for
products.
We wanted to uh be more deep oninto that and uh be closer to uh

(02:30:16):
conservation projects in Braziland also social projects to be
able to also um offer moreexperiences that people can be
more engaged with natureconservancy social projects and
get the more authentic forBrazil.
This is something that isreally, really big.
And the other thing is that meand Camila we have been talking

(02:30:37):
about how important for us is tohave more space in our agenda to
be on this air, uh on these kindof events with uh more uh people
from the trade to be uh ablealso to uh learn from that but
also inspire.
So we we want to be more out ofthe office at the moment.
Next year is is our goal also tobe more out of the office and

(02:31:01):
let people work, you know, andwe're gonna be inspiring then.

SPEAKER_16 (02:31:04):
The one thing that's amazing for um to hear from both
of you and have this timetogether is how much energy you
both have.
And I'm sure our listeners arepicking up on it as well.
The fact that, you know, 24years in and you know, the last
couple years being so uh wild,and you know, that you guys are
not like you it's almost likeyou've just started this
business in the last like fewmonths.
You have that type of energy andenthusiasm, and it's very

(02:31:26):
infectious.
So um I've really enjoyedgetting a chance to meet you and
to get to know both of you.
Um and Camilla, I want to makesure, given that you are um, you
know, there's so many valuableinsights that you shared
yesterday that people can learnfrom you.
And I called out one example andI asked you a follow-up question
about sustainability and theword equity that you use.

(02:31:48):
Um, that at the beginning of ourpodcast, they would have heard
me speaking to Carolina fromTompkins Conservation.
And I asked that question ofher, and I asked that question
of you on stage yesterdaybecause I really love that you
chose that word and what itmeans.
So I'm sharing that because Iwant to make sure that all of
our listeners not only go toyour website, reach out to you
because they can learn so muchand hopefully partner with you

(02:32:11):
and other travelers that aregonna now discover a part of
Brazil that they didn't knowexisted.
So tell everyone how they canfind out more information and
connect with you guys.

SPEAKER_00 (02:32:19):
Oh, yeah, we you can you can um um look at our
website is um www.
uh.gonduanabrazil and brazilwith s dot com.br.
So this is important.
It's power, it's part of ourmission also.
So Brazil is normally writtenwith S, but then as an

(02:32:40):
internationalized process, ithas been transformed into Z.
But we as Gondwana we uh wereinforce the importance of
being the authentic Brazil.
That's the Brazil with S.
Um, so just making a pointthere, and then the same way for
our social uh media.
So uh Instagram uh gondwanaBrazil uh with S.

(02:33:00):
And also I think yeah, this istoo many ways where can they
reach out um to Gondwana?

SPEAKER_16 (02:33:06):
Amazing.
Thank you, Camilla, and thankyou, Daniela.
Real pleasure to meet you both.
I wish you every success in theyear ahead, and I look forward
to seeing you next year at ATWS.

SPEAKER_00 (02:33:15):
Oh, great, Dan.
Thank you very much for givingus the opportunity, and it was
amazing to share the stage withyou, and yeah, we hope to see
you next year.

SPEAKER_06 (02:33:22):
Yes, thank you, Dan.
It was really amazing to behere, also.

SPEAKER_16 (02:33:26):
You guys are fantastic, thank you so much.
I am delighted now to have aguest returning to our event,
Spotlight, that I had thepleasure to get time with in
Denver.
And you heard from Rob Holmes,who's the founder of GLP Films.
He's also you know, he's anaward-winning filmmaker and a
legendary filmmaker.

(02:33:46):
He had an incredible premierelast night here in Porto
Natales.
He always ties it together atATTA and launches these
incredible new travel videosthat he works on with Tourism
Board.
So, first of all, Rob, welcomeback to Travel Trends.
Thanks again for joining us.

SPEAKER_12 (02:34:02):
Hey Dan, great to be here.
And uh of all places in PortoNatales in southern Chile.
Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_16 (02:34:07):
Yeah, exactly.
We've all journeyed to be hereto the uh the end of the world.
Uh, but tell us about last nightbecause you had more than 200
people there.
It was one of the mostsuccessful premiers you've ever
had.
Tell us a little bit more aboutwhat all transpired last night.

SPEAKER_12 (02:34:21):
Well, the you know, GLP has got a long history.
We've been around 17 years now,and actually many people might
not know, but in the verybeginning, when I started GLP in
2008, uh I we went to Africa,uh, me and a journalist and a
videographer, and we produced,we were there for a month.
We produced a whole series offilms, and we ended up uh just

(02:34:44):
doing a roadshow, going aroundthe U.S.
uh, and that snowballed into youknow having a team go around the
country and doing events.
And so I kind of went a littleold school several years ago
saying, gosh, you know, thepower of film, how I got into
this, what inspires me, what Ithink other people get inspired
about.
And I do think I don't want tospeak for everyone else, but

(02:35:05):
getting together and watchingjust great, engaging, awesome
films is really powerful.
So we've kind of brought thatback, uh, even though we used to
do a hundred events a year.
Uh, we've brought it back thelast three years and kind of
piggybacked on other events thatare going.
And yeah, last night wasawesome.
It was a capstone of uh you knowworking with Chile Tourism for a

(02:35:28):
couple years.
Um, really, it was a worldpremiere.
We were showing three films thathad not been shown uh to the
public at this point.
And yeah, we had a packed house,uh well, you know, 150, 200
people, um, you know, food,wine, all from Chile, uh really
cool warehouse venue with creakyboards and uh, you know, just an

(02:35:51):
awesome atmosphere.
And we premiered a whole newfilm series that we're we've
officially launched now withChile.
Uh and I think most importantlyfor me, it's outside of getting
people together and just reallyhaving that joy and that hangout
time, it's just being inspiredon where tourism needs to go.
And I think that was kind of thepurpose of the event.

(02:36:12):
And the purpose of our work withChili Tourism is giving them
that opportunity to repositionthe destination.
And the core themes werecommunity, were uh conservation,
and then looking at issuesaround, you know, we had three
different stories, threedifferent regions, the Los Rios
region, Los Lagos, andAerocanilla.

(02:36:33):
And we had one story on thisconvergence of mountain biking
with the indigenous uh Mopuchecommunity, uh, which is the
largest indigenous community inall of Chile.
Uh, then we had a story on WiloWillo Biological Reserve,
looking at wildlifeconservation, which again is
rarely talked about at theseevents.
And then lastly, Cochemo Valleylooking at um, you know, an epic

(02:36:57):
uh climbing and hikingdestination that uh also has to
has had a huge uh wealth ofsupport in protecting and
preserving this area forgenerations to come.
So just super fun just havingpeople come together.
We had a great turnout, a wholemix of people, lots of people
from Chile, but you know,leveraging, tapping into the
ATTA community, people from allaround the world, just wanting

(02:37:19):
to enjoy and be inspired.

SPEAKER_16 (02:37:20):
And I heard uh so much greatfeedback this morning from
people who had been there, andobviously it's one of the things
that people really look forwardto at coming to an ATTA event is
um your premieres, and I want tomake sure that everyone can see
these videos as well.
So I want to make sure that uhright now I want to talk about
some of the things you'replanning going forward.
But uh for anyone that's justheard that and was like, I need

(02:37:42):
to see these, uh, where best tofind them, Rob?

SPEAKER_12 (02:37:44):
Yeah, we had to wait until this event, honestly,
because it's uh it was apremiere, so uh they are now out
into the public, so to speak.
Um so now we can uh we're gonnabe launching them next week just
on GLP Films, our YouTube page.
Uh, they will also be on ourwebsite, glpfilms.com.
Um, but I think YouTube isprimarily where most people will

(02:38:05):
find them.
And we we created a whole numberof categories and playlists on
YouTube just to uh divide thefilms up by theme.
And uh so yeah, YouTube's aplace to go.

SPEAKER_16 (02:38:15):
Cool.
All right, make sure everyonechecks that out.
And then as we sit here today onthe final day of ATTA after your
premiere last night, obviouslythere's lots of benefits of you
being here.
What are some of the otherthings that stood out to you
this year being all the way downhere in Chile?

SPEAKER_12 (02:38:29):
You know, this is an annual gathering of like-minded
folks, and you know, there'svery few events that I go to on
a regular basis that reallyengage you, and there's a lot of
great thoughts and conversationsand good times.
And, you know, I did my day ofadventure going trail running.
I mean, you just see all thephotos of the different
adventures that people did, andit's just awesome.

(02:38:52):
You know, it's an annualgathering, it's a really good
people, um, you know, goodthought leadership here, talking
about issues and topics andgoing on in Chile and South
America and globally.
So I'd say, you know, overall,just you know, hearing more
about AI, hearing more aboutsustainability, regenerative,
indigenous, you know, theseimportant issues and topics in

(02:39:13):
the industry that we all need tobe doing our part.
And, you know, I can't uh, youknow, always excited to come
again.

SPEAKER_16 (02:39:21):
Yeah, well, actually, I just want to pick up
on that point since youmentioned AI and it definitely
became part of our conversationlast time in Denver.
One of the things I was keen toget your take on now, and I just
wanted to revisit for ouraudience is the use of AI and
video.
When I talk about the biggesttrends in marketing for AI in
2026, one of them is theutilization of AI to generate

(02:39:41):
videos.
And one of the things I wasconcerned about as I saw other
organizations' tourism boards inparticular creating videos with
AI, I wanted to get your take onthis because I had seen a uh
OTA, an online travel agencybased in uh Southeast Asia that
was creating this campaign onAustralia and they had done
everything on AI and it lookedspectacular, looked like better

(02:40:03):
than real life.
And this brings up that questionabout the appropriate use.
And you're someone that has shotsome of the most iconic images
around the world of real likewildlife.
And so, where do you think theappropriate utilization is with
AI?
Because I know you hadhighlighted to me that you guys,
you guys use AI.
You need to embrace thistechnology for some of the

(02:40:23):
production techniques.
But yeah, if you wouldn't mindsharing that with our audience,
I'm sure they'd love your uhyour view on that.

SPEAKER_12 (02:40:29):
Yeah, AI, as we spoke earlier, it it's it's
infiltrating all sectors of allindustries, and everyone needs
to be aware of it.
I will say in our world in thecontent marketing space, um, AI
is definitely, I mean, the firstthing to go was text.
First second thing to go wasphoto, still images, and now

(02:40:49):
looking at video.
I I my approach to it is everybrand, every destination should
have their own in-houseproduction.
Um, video is such an importantvehicle.
It's uh we've built our successand company on this video
technology, the platform, thechannels that go with it, uh,
because it's so important.
It's nothing better.

(02:41:10):
Uh that's why we specialize injust award-winning storytelling,
because that's what engagesconsumers.
Um, really great, compellingvideos and uh that that'll just
inspire and educate, hence whywe did the event last night.
So I I'm kind of bullish in thesense that everyone should be
having some form to producetheir own content.
For us directly, um, you know,we definitely use AI where it

(02:41:33):
can benefit us on the research,on the uh diving into certain
issues and topics while uhbuilding and putting together
like the three, four months thatwe spent putting together this
Chili campaign.
Uh a lot of research goes in,and we can tap into AI and use
it as a vehicle to make ussmarter, quicker, faster, and
and help uh just from anefficiency standpoint.

(02:41:54):
But I I will say I was speakingto Jason Records, uh, you know,
who is uh AI guru now, you know,former ATTA, and uh, you know,
really diving into this, and andhe agreed that you know, where
we're at, where our team, GLP,we're at a different level.
Um, you know, not in a bullishstandpoint or it but it's just

(02:42:14):
true.
I mean, in order to produceaward-winning content, the the
breadth and depth of stories andissues and topics and the people
and the characters, it'sextremely complex.
You know, we don't develop astoryboard, we don't have a
script that people read from.
This is all documentary style.
It's very hard.
I mean, really, AI is not AI isgoing after the people that are

(02:42:37):
just looking for the churn andburn content that destinations
and brands need, don't get mewrong, video content, short
socials, long form, short form,it's all needed.
And AI can be a huge benefit fordestination or brand in trying
to scale and just engage withconsumers and have that regular
churn of content via Instagram,Facebook, YouTube, what have

(02:42:58):
you.
So, but we're not, we're notthere.
We're we're in a totallydifferent area where we're
looking at multi-stakeholder,very complex issues, very
trade-related topics and issuesand trends, looking at
sustainability, looking atregenerative, looking at
indigenous.
AI is not going to be thesolution for that, you know?
So, not to say that we're notthinking about it or aware.

(02:43:19):
I think you all we all have touse it uh as a vehicle and as
another tool in our tool belt.
But the human aspect, the humanthought process, the strategy
that goes in, it's exponentialin the work we're doing.
So again, AI is our friend andwe use it and we work well with
it.
But uh, you know, to to createum to create the level and the

(02:43:43):
complexity of stories that we'redeveloping where you don't know
the final end until you're inthe edit room, that's just a
different level, and that'sokay.
But again, we'll still followand see where we can learn from
AI.

SPEAKER_16 (02:43:53):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, Rob.
And I I know you've got so manyother projects in the pipeline,
and we see each other at variousevents throughout the year.
We'll see each other at uh WTMin London, and so it's always
great to see you and connect.
And given you've got so manyprojects on the go, I'd love to
share what you can about 2026and where you and the team are
headed and some of the othergreat initiatives that you have

(02:44:14):
underway.

SPEAKER_12 (02:44:15):
Yeah, two that I can mention, because some again are
not finalized or confirmed, butagain, it's always fun to see
what comes up.
And you know, this is why we go,I go to all these travel events
and trade shows is to connectwith existing friends or new
friends, and so it's aconstantly revolving door.
But we just were in uhCatalonia, Spain in the

(02:44:36):
Pyrenees, and uh so thatcampaign is coming out next
year.
Uh I I was honest to workingwith the folks in uh Catalonia
that I I didn't know much aboutthe Pyrenees in Catalonia, and
uh it's a beautiful, magicalregion, untapped, uh just a gem,
just four hours, four hoursoutside of Barcelona, you know,

(02:44:57):
one of the biggest touristattractions in the world.
Um and then another campaignthat I I can say is uh probably
gonna be our biggest undertakingever.
It's gonna be looking at horsetourism.
So no, I'm not a I'm not a horseor equestrian expert.
But uh what's fascinating,because I was just speaking on
uh regenerative tourism at aconference in uh Poland just a

(02:45:21):
couple weeks ago, is it's gonnabe five countries looking at the
horse tourism industry.
So we're gonna be in Germany,Denmark, Sweden, uh, Poland, and
Lithuania.
And so it's gonna befascinating.
The multi-stakeholder, you talkabout complexity, talk about AI.
You know, this is this is gonnabe fascinating to see how five

(02:45:42):
different countries relate tothis one sector.
So those are just a couple uhthings that we're working on
right now.
Um, you know, just alwaysexcited, and I'll have more to
come and keep you posted onwhat's next for 2026.
It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_16 (02:45:55):
Oh, that's fantastic, Rob.
But I know not only will I seeyou at the next series of
conferences, but obviously atATTA next year, which I'm pretty
excited about the destinationthat'll be announced shortly as
we sit here in the uh the finalhours of the conference.
So knowing that you're gonna bethere, obviously that is
something I always look forwardto.
So we're definitely gonna speakagain.
And I look forward to doing morecollaborations with you.

(02:46:16):
I said that to Rob just beforewe kicked off.
And you know, he's such athought leader and such an
expert in the space in thisindustry, and there's very few
people that have this level ofexpertise and a really unique
angle on the industry.
There's no, you know, there's noone else here that does what you
do, Rob.
And um, that is uh reallyspecial.
And I think you know, you've gotso much to be able to share and

(02:46:37):
with our listeners.
And I'm yeah, I'm uh you know,I'm a huge fan of your work, as
you know, and I'm glad thatwe've uh had the opportunity to
kind of get to know each otherbetter over the last couple of
years.
And yeah, you certainly have myfull support, and I hope all of
our listeners take theopportunity to.
If you don't know anything aboutRob Holmes yet, you need to.
So check out the website,connect with him on LinkedIn.

(02:46:57):
Is there anywhere else you'dpoint people to, uh, your social
channels?

SPEAKER_12 (02:47:01):
I'd say LinkedIn is probably the best.
Um, obviously, our website, ourGLP YouTube page.
Um, you know, our peoplehonestly, we get a lot of people
following us just through ournewsletter.
Uh, it gets a real highclick-through rate, uh, just
like two, three times industryaverage.
And so it's really nice to havethat engage.
It's a soft ping once a month,you know, and just see what's

(02:47:23):
going on, latest and greatest,where I'm going, what new
projects we're working on,campaigns, results.
Um, I will say, you know, withthe film event we did last
night, it, you know, the teamreached out asking how it went,
and this was a team effort.
The amount of partners andcollaborators that had to come
together to put together thisawesome event uh was huge.
And so this isn't just RobHolmes, this is our team at GLP,

(02:47:46):
and definitely very proud of thevideos, the content, uh, just
the outreach that needed tohappen to get people to attend.
Uh, I I definitely expressedheartfelt thanks to our entire
team uh because it's not justme, it's all of us.
And uh we're doing something newand indifferent, but it's it's a
it's definitely a team effort.
So good to be back, Dan.
Uh always great to connect insome exotic location around the

(02:48:08):
world and look forward to thenext one.
And yeah, uh, let's just keep intouch.
Awesome.
Thanks so much, Rob.

SPEAKER_16 (02:48:16):
I now have the chance to speak to Gabby Stoll,
who was the vice president atATTA last time we spoke.
And she's actually a key reasonthat Travel Trends has become a
partner with ATTA.
Her and I actually collaboratedtogether on the contract that we
put together uh in terms of allthe things we were gonna do for
this partnership.
And you know, I I certainly Ithank you for that.
And I've also just been thrilledthat it's come together as well

(02:48:37):
as it has.
And so I was really keen to haveGabby here on the podcast for a
couple of reasons.
Obviously, that background, butshe's also started a new role,
and I also just want to get herinsights at the conference.
So, Gabby, welcome back toTravel Trends.
Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 (02:48:51):
Thank you for having me then.
That was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_16 (02:48:53):
For sure.
We we spoke in Panama last year,it was such an inspiring
conversation, and uh it reallykind of set the tone for me that
episode and what we were able tocreate at that event spotlight.
And I know yourself and Shannonhad listened to it on a road
trip.
Yes, and I called the second onelike the road trip edition
because it was like five hours.
So and uh it thrilled me thatyou guys enjoyed hearing all

(02:49:14):
these voices from people at theconference, many people you
know, but you always findsomeone that uh you know I'm
meeting for the first time, andthen you're hearing from for the
first time, and you get to heartheir story.
So I'm keen to have you back tobe able to share your story.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat's changed.
So you decided to leave ATTAdespite being there 11 years and
having such great success andhave taken on a new role.

(02:49:34):
But tell us what brought aboutthe change since we saw each
other in Denver.

SPEAKER_01 (02:49:37):
Of course, of course.
Well, I'm always gonna be partof this ATTA and the community.
There's no way.
As you know, you got hooked too.
Yeah.
Once you come, you never leave.
It's the hotel California of thetravel industry.
But no, just kidding.
I, you know, it's been 11 yearsat ATTA, 11 years, and I've done
all the roles you can imagine.
I started a membership, I didresearch, I did a you, I was the

(02:49:59):
Latin America director for along time.
I ended up being the vicepresident.
I was about to become thepresident, and then I was like,
you know, I am 43 years old.
I am still, I've been in thetravel industry since I was 19.
I started as a guide in thePentanal.
I think we talked a little bitabout it.

SPEAKER_19 (02:50:15):
Yeah, we did, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (02:50:16):
And um, and I was like, you know, I want to
challenge myself still, youknow, like I want to grow.
I don't want to be stagnant.
In Brazil, we say like stagnantwater creates dengue, the
mosquito that does the disease.
So I was like, I still want togrow.
I still like adventure.
So I was like, okay.
And uh we I was able to supportthe team to to grow, and I

(02:50:37):
helped train and establish sucha good team at ATTA of young,
you know, uh very, very wellcapable people.
And I was like, I can actuallylive and I can start something
else.
So that was the motivation tocontinue to grow, to continue to
learn, to continue to live a newadventure.
And I'm very excited uh to bestarting at Banneking with this

(02:50:58):
new role, which is making totalsense, is a perfect fit.
And I'm here representingBannekin already.
So it's still part of thecommunity, it's still part of
everything.

SPEAKER_16 (02:51:06):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So it's interesting that we'rehaving this conversation,
especially after uh kicking offthis event spotlight episode
with uh Christine Tompkins, whowent through a similar journey
herself when she left Patagonia.
She was the CEO of Patagonia.
How do you ever leave that role?
But she was ready for change.
And you certainly have built anamazing community around here,
the executive team.
And I still remember taking apicture of you guys at the end

(02:51:27):
of the Denver conference, andyou guys were celebrating, and I
was like, wow, what a fantasticteam.
And then when I hope you'releaving, I'm like, oh no,
Gabby's leaving.
But everything, all good thingsdo come to an end.
And um, and you have, as yousay, you're still young and
you've got lots more to offer.
And I know um from followingyour Instagram that you've been
traveling a lot.
Yeah, and obviously you'rebased, you're you were from
you're based in the US, but youare from Brazil.

(02:51:49):
Yes.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutyour travels the last couple of
months.

SPEAKER_01 (02:51:52):
Yeah, I got to do a sabbatical.
I don't remember ever takingthat amount of time off.
I thought I was gonna struggle,but then I was like, I really
got used to it.
It was fun to travel, not forwork, for once, in my own
country, going back to my roots.
And it was also a beautifulcycle also at HTA because I was
the MC of the Latin Americaevent, which was in Bonito, Mato
Grosso do Sul, where I startedmy career.

(02:52:14):
And in that event, I saweverybody from all the phases of
my travel career in Brazil.
And so I came back to it.
So it was a full circle, and nowyou know, starting a new rope,
going back to Brazil.
It was great.
I went to a jazz festival inParachi, which is awesome.
I highly recommend.
Brazil is amazing.
So being there with my people,my my the people that I grew up
with, uh, my family, of course,and just traveling as a tourist,

(02:52:37):
not for work, it was super fun.
And I'm recharged, I'm inspired,I um yeah, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_16 (02:52:43):
Well, that's cool.
Well, we're gonna talk aboutyour new role in a moment, but
one thing I just want to connectgiven that you're from South
America and we're here in Chile,and you were part of the uh
conference 10 years ago thatShannon was talking about, and
you've been here multiple timessince, so this place is
obviously special for you, andthere's definitely a more a
sense of like a South Americancommunity.
I mean, the people that are herefrom Ecuador and from Colombia,
there's just sort of a SouthAmerican vibe.

SPEAKER_03 (02:53:05):
Yes, yes, and I love it.

SPEAKER_16 (02:53:07):
Like, I'm just like, I feel like at ATETA I've met my
tribe or my people, but reallySouth America, it's like there's
something special about thiscontinent and the history and
the culture, and it it wasevident to me in the music.
And I was saying this to Shannonabout uh Las Javas.

SPEAKER_01 (02:53:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh my gosh, that was epic.
It was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_16 (02:53:25):
I know I was just like, how have I never heard
about like this biggest Chileanband ever and how remarkable
their music was?
It's very rare that you hear, atleast for me anyway, a band for
the first time and their musicinstantly like you connects,
yeah.
Yeah, speaks to your connection.
You like it the first time youhear it.
You don't have to listen to itthree times to find your
favorite hits.
Yes, you're just like, oh mygod, the music, the sounds,
everything that's happeningright now, the drummer.

(02:53:46):
This just like this is epic.
Um, but yeah, tell us aboutbeing back in Chile for this
event.
Because you were actuallyresponsible, I just want all of
our listeners to know that too,um, for putting a lot of the
content together.
So a lot of the things that uhwe're seeing now, uh you had put
in place before you departedyour role.
So I mean, this has to beinteresting for you to be here
and seeing how it all plays out.

(02:54:07):
So, yeah, tell us a little bitmore about uh greater just be
back in Chile.

SPEAKER_01 (02:54:10):
Now it's uh Chile uh lives deeply in my heart because
I I've been working in thisregion, and we know we've done
the summit here in 2015.
I did the W of my pre-adventurewas here in in Torres del Piney.
So then I came back in 2017 inTierra do Fuego, incredible
destination, one of the besttrips of my life.
And then we did Adventure NextPatagonia.

(02:54:31):
So and this region is reallydear to my heart and very
special community.
I love the culture.
What an awesome place where youhave the you know, the lamp and
the king crab.
That's the food and the calafateand the gaucho culture.
It's very similar to, of course,the Patagonia culture, it's very
similar to you know in Argentinaand Brazil and Uruguay and all
that.
So it feels at home.
We drink much too in south ofBrazil.

(02:54:52):
So I just love the community.
And uh Latin America has alwaysbeen you know like um special to
me.
And we started the 2018 inmovement inside ATTA, which is
super alive, which is called UnaFuerza, which is the one force
where the Latin Americansconnect to talk about our
opportunities, our challenges,our you know, and we share.
And um so yeah, of course, here,you know, it's wonderful to see

(02:55:15):
and to see that industrygrowing, you know, towards more
sustainable, community-basedtravel, women leadership, you
know, indigenous communities,and getting both respect and
support from the governments,which is very important, but
also like from the community andgetting to be known more.
And uh so it's it's super cool.

(02:55:35):
And the content, um, veryspecial because um, you know, I
work on the theme of the eventand chose the content, and it's
just I love it.
And I'm uh absorbing all of it,learning, tons of it.
And it's such a you know, wework so hard and we envision it,
and yeah, always better inperson.
Like it's it's surprising me howgood it is and how much more,

(02:55:56):
you know, I've been feeling andlearning, and I'm loving it.
Yeah, I'm very thankful for allthe speakers.
They everybody brings that's theATTA, right?
Like the open the open heart toshare and not treat each other
as competitors and just reallyshare best practices, and you
can feel it in everywhere you gohere.

SPEAKER_16 (02:56:13):
Well, on my uh pre-trip, I met a number of
people that were involved insessions and the time and
effort.
I mean, I'm moderating a sessionright after this.
I'm so looking forward to, anduh it's about success stories
from ATTA, and it features a fewpeople that uh will likely be
part of this episode as wellfrom Explora, which is Gonzalo,
who and that's a special Chileansuccess story, and Gawana from

(02:56:35):
Brazil from where you're based.
Um so we'll get to hear fromCamila as well, yes.
Um, and then Julie from Fiji.
So this is but when I saw otherpeople getting ready for their
sessions to moderate the careand effort they were putting
into it with connecting with thepanelists, um, Nina, who did a
session earlier.
I mean, I saw her multiple timeslike working on it.
Also, um, and I gave her alittle bit of feedback.

(02:56:56):
She was, you know, like stressedin a good way, like getting
ready for it, just really cared.

SPEAKER_03 (02:57:00):
Yes.

SPEAKER_16 (02:57:00):
And then she she spent the two hours on a coach
with her panel preparing.
And like, so people put a lot oftime and effort and energy into
it.
So it's a credit to you and tothe community that um that's
been built.
But you mentioned somethingabout Chile that I just want to
highlight for all of ourlisteners that I didn't know
about before coming here.
It's calafate.
Yes, it's like for me, it's likethe it's like the maple syrup of
of Chile, like as far as anequivalent, it's not anything

(02:57:22):
like maple syrup, but it's aberry.

SPEAKER_01 (02:57:24):
It's a berry.

SPEAKER_16 (02:57:25):
Tell everyone what it is because it's everywhere
here.

SPEAKER_01 (02:57:27):
Yeah, it's kind of a blueberry-ish different, it's
unique from here, and they sayonce you eat it, you're gonna be
back.
Yeah, like you're you're gonnadefinitely be back, and it's
true.
And they make a special drinkhere that is the you know
calafate sour because p you knowchili has the pisco sour.
Uh, sorry, Peruvians, they theydo too.
So uh not to do not to create uha conflict here, but and here

(02:57:49):
you have a special one.
So you have to come toPatagonia, you have to come to
this region to have a calafatesour.
It is you know a fruit and it'sdelicious, it's very good,
healthy, and you can have jamsand juice.
It doesn't need to be alcohol,but uh the calafate sour is
pretty special.

SPEAKER_16 (02:58:04):
Yeah, I had the I've had the calafate beer, the
Patagonian Calafate beer,Austral beer, which has been
fantastic.
But yes, as you say, it doesn'thave to be an alcoholic drink,
but that's a unique uh the theuh utilization of calafate, like
it's it's one of those thingsyou come to a place and you
realize there's all thesedifferent um ways that you can
enjoy calafate, and I'm like,how did I even not even hear
about this before, right?

SPEAKER_01 (02:58:24):
And this is the beauty of travel and going off
the bit and path and connectingand the food and the culture is
so important, right?
For all we do.
We always talk about this atATTA, right?
Like there is beautiful placeseverywhere, but um, culture is
what makes a destination unique,and you can experience that
here.
Beautiful nature, of course, butthe culture, the food, you know,
which is part of the culture, isreally what makes the place

(02:58:45):
unique, you know?

SPEAKER_16 (02:58:46):
Yeah, totally, yeah.
Well, let's talk about your newrole at Bannekin because I know
the team at Bannik Bannekinquite well.
We actually had worked withBannekin and was at the Travel
Corporation, and we broughtBannekin in.
They ran our sustainability sideof the business, which was
called Treadrite.
And so and so I'm uh andactually very interestingly,
Gabby, our producer for ourpodcast, Zach, who will be the

(02:59:06):
one editing this, uh, worked atBannekin for a number of years
and has a great respect for theteam there.
So I was delighted when I foundout that you had taken on a role
at Bannekin.
Um, but tell everyone a littlebit more about Bannekin and this
role that you've taken on.

SPEAKER_01 (02:59:20):
Yeah, so I'm the new travel trade specialist at
Bannakin, and which I'm superexcited.
So I will be supporting thetrade side of things, you know,
connecting destinations andsuppliers with the travel
industry, like partners, uh theB2B side of things, and it's
perfect because you know, allthese years in ATTA, I got to

(02:59:40):
know a lot of the trade and thebuyers, and but also the
suppliers.
And I'm very excited to startdeveloping that.
And um, you know, and it'sawesome because um Bennekin
already has like the PR side ofthings, you know, and the
communication side of things,the marketing side of things.
And so we can complement worktogether, uh, it represents
destinations in.
Suppliers, but also we also dodestination development around

(03:00:03):
sustainability.
So the vision of the company isvery aligned with what I believe
and what I like to do.
The team is great.
I'm very excited to, they'reall, you know, so so experienced
and so knowledgeable.
I am really, really excited tofind a um a place where my heart
is really beating happilybecause we we believe in tourism

(03:00:25):
being done right, you know, allthe things that I always
believed and I always workedfor.
And uh yeah, I'm very excitedfor this new opportunity to
learn from them and to grow withthem and to continue to work for
the travel industry to go in theright place for the right, you
know, like move the needle inthe right direction on
sustainable, inclusive, youknow, indigenous women, in

(03:00:47):
everything.
Like uh so I'm very aligned withthe mission.
So it's terrific.

SPEAKER_16 (03:00:51):
They're very lucky to have you.
No, for sure they are, andthat's why I was like delighted.
I'm like, no way, she's going toBannekin, because yeah, I know
them from their sustainabilitycredentials and their PR
activity.
But the one thing that alsostood out to me is that I know
the team's based in Toronto,which is where I am, uh as you
know, and but one of the bigopportunities is to expand them
globally, like especially inSouth America.

(03:01:12):
Yes.
So is that gonna be part of yourfocus?

SPEAKER_01 (03:01:14):
Yeah, a lot, a lot.
So I'll definitely, you know,that's where I'm I have a bunch
of connections too.
So the North American market,uh, US, Canada, Mexico be my
first priority, but Brazilactually, you know, connecting
people with Brazil, and I'vebeen hearing a lot here that
there is a lot of interest thatfrom the Brazilian, you know,
community buyers.
And so I'm very excited to startwith that.
But yeah, the idea is to expandglobally.

(03:01:35):
We already represent uhcompanies, you know, like from
Japan and from Latin America,from Europe.
Um, but yeah, more on that forsure.

SPEAKER_16 (03:01:42):
Yeah, well, it's really the thing that's
fascinating about Brazilspecifically, and that's why I
was excited that when you tookon this role and knowing what a
big opportunity South America.
When I was based in LA at thetravel corporation, one of the
regions that became uh kind ofunder my purview was uh also
understanding Latin America andSouth America, which I was
limited and I had traveledthere, but I was limited in my
business understanding aboutdistribution partners and

(03:02:03):
clearly Brazil, like just basedon population alone, which some
many people are not.
I'm always shocked that peopledon't know population or
language, like Brazil isobviously Portuguese, unlike
most of South America, which isSpanish.
And um, but the population of uhBrazil is about a hundred
million.

SPEAKER_01 (03:02:18):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (03:02:19):
And so it's you know, it's a massive market.
Yes, and so there's always beenthis keenness to try and crack
the Brazilian market for NorthAmerican travel companies.
But it's very hard if you don'tknow the local culture and you
can't really connect with localbusiness players and figure out
who the right partners are towork with.
So that's why I'm like, oh myGod, you're gonna unlock this
for them.
Yeah, and Brazil is a hugeopportunity.

SPEAKER_01 (03:02:41):
Totally.
And you know, there aredifferent niches inside Brazil,
like such a diverse country anda big country.
You know, you have more of theluxury traveler, you have more
the experience of travel.
And I can see that because ofsustainability and the world and
everything that it is, we arestarting to do more regional
travel too.
You know, like uh Braziliansused to go, you know, a lot to
the US and Europe, and they'relike starting to really discover

(03:03:03):
Latin America, and there is sucha huge opportunity because you
know, for for us to just andconnection, flight connections
to, you know, I flew fromFlorianopolis, where I, you
know, we I live part of thetime, um, to Director Santiago,
and that's so cool, you know, tobe able to connect you in our
own region and get to knowbetter.

SPEAKER_16 (03:03:20):
And tell everyone exactly where that is, because I
actually when I was speaking toJuliana, our common uh friend
that runs impulse travel, andshe'd mentioned how and I had to
say to her, I'm like, I becauseI always want to double check,
I'm like, where is that again?
Because I don't knowgeographically, but it's an
island.

SPEAKER_01 (03:03:32):
Yeah, it is an island, it's known as the Magic
Island, it's in south of Brazil,the Santa Catarina state.
So um we have only one morestate um south, which is Rio
Grande do Sul, and then it'sUruguay, so it's south of
Brazil.
So we have all the seasonsthere.
And uh it's known as the MagicIsland.
It's a very special place thatuh I invite everybody to come
visit.
Because and if you wanna reachyou, you can reach me and I'll

(03:03:55):
show you around.

SPEAKER_16 (03:03:56):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, on that exact note, I dowant to make sure that all of
our listeners now know your newcontact details.
I'm sure they can find you onLinkedIn.
But um, given that so manypeople still want to stay in
touch with you, and many peoplewho are gonna be listening to
this, all of a sudden say, waita second, I the they'll be
learning about your new role andexcited for you.
So, what are the best ways forpeople to be able to reach out
to you now, Gabby?

SPEAKER_01 (03:04:15):
Yeah, you can reach out to me through email,
Gabriella double uh atpanicane.com, our website.
Um, I'm gonna link it in, I'meverywhere.
So I'm easy to find.
I'm loud also.

SPEAKER_16 (03:04:25):
So you've got so much energy.
That's what I was like.
Uh no, but Gabby, thanks againfor the partnership.
Thanks for being here for thisrecording.
Obviously, I'm really happy foryou on your new journey, and I'm
sure you're gonna be incrediblysuccess successful at Bannekin.
And I look forward to speakingto you again at the next
conference.

SPEAKER_01 (03:04:41):
Thank you, and thank you for being here and for your
contribution with the panel,with the podcast, and everything
you do.
Then it's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_16 (03:04:48):
Thank you so much, Gabby.
Yes.
Awesome.
I now have the chance to speakto Isabel Hoffman, who's come
all the way from Australia, andshe runs a bike touring company.
We were chatting the other nightat the opening reception.
We were actually having Lam andsitting outside together, and we
were like, wait a second, I'minterviewing you on Thursday.
And so I'm really lookingforward to having this chat and

(03:05:09):
explaining a bit more about thecycling experience, because
obviously I had a PSA beforethis, as people have heard on
this episode, and experiencedbike tour for the first time.
So as soon as I met Isabel, Iwas like, Oh my god, I've had
the most incredible bike touringexperience, and it's exactly
what you guys do.
So, Isabel, welcome to thepodcast, first of all.

SPEAKER_05 (03:05:25):
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_16 (03:05:26):
For sure.
No, I'm thrilled that you'rehere.
And tell everyone a bit aboutbike odyssey and the background
in your business.
Because I know your husband's anarchaeologist.
I want all of our listeners tohear the story because it's so
interesting.

SPEAKER_05 (03:05:36):
Well, yes, and my husband Sam Wood is actually the
super interesting one.
I'm just the um, you know,co-founder.
But he is an archaeologist, hewas working at the British
Museum, and and he wanted toride uh the route of his
favourite commander of all time,Carthaginian Hannibal Barker.
So he thought, why not proposeit to the BBC and see if they'll

(03:05:58):
make a documentary out of it?
They said yes.
So Sam rode it with his brothersfrom Barcelona to Rome and all
the way back to Tunisia.
Took three months with the BBCcrews and loved it.
And it's um aired on BBC um in70 countries around the world.
It's still the most up-to-dateDocker on Hannibal, still, 15,
oh 17 years later.

(03:06:20):
Um but he came back and saidthat was the most amazing bike
trip I've ever done.
I'm gonna make a business so Ican take other people on it.
And that's what he did.

SPEAKER_16 (03:06:29):
Incredible.
And I know you're so you'rebased just outside of Sydney,
and when we were chatting theother night, you were telling me
that you just only actually dobike tours as far as Australia
is concerned, in Tasmania, whichis beautiful and a great place
to cycle.
Um, but all of your trips areoutbound from Australia, um, and
Japan, I know, is a bigdestination.
So tell us uh some of the tripsthat you guys have created, like

(03:06:50):
where the business really kindof got its footing, and the type
of trips that you guys run nowfor obviously a much larger
clientele, because it's beenwhat, 13 years?

SPEAKER_05 (03:06:58):
Uh no, we've we've run bicodyssey since 2017.

SPEAKER_16 (03:07:01):
2017, sorry, eight years, eight, nine years.

SPEAKER_05 (03:07:03):
Yep.
Um so yeah, you're exactlyright.
We do big trips outside ofAustralia mostly, one in
Tasmania.
Um, but yeah, otherwise Japan,Morocco, many in Europe.
Um we do one in Chile here,which is fantastic.
Um and basically uh we justthink of the best place in the
world we would love to cyclenext.
And then Sam comes up with um anhistorical figure or an

(03:07:26):
historical people we can followin that area and then creates a
route.
And so it is super fun.
We take more than two years umcreating a trip.

SPEAKER_19 (03:07:35):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (03:07:36):
And uh, you know, there's a huge amount of things
that go into it like cycleableroads and fabulous hotels.
We're high end, so you know, allfour plus four star plus.
Um, and we want to experiencefabulous um culture along the
way, so UNESCO sites, a lot ofhistorical sites, and cut you
know, all the cultural things,meeting the locals, eating the

(03:07:57):
eating the the food wherever wego.
So um yeah, we just kind of puttogether the best things we
could possibly find in that areaand off we go.

SPEAKER_16 (03:08:05):
That's cool.
I totally get the desire for aluxury accommodation after
you've been on a bike seat allday, now that I know what that's
like.

SPEAKER_05 (03:08:11):
That is fantastic, yes.

SPEAKER_16 (03:08:13):
But you also have this wonderful sense of
accomplishment that clearly youknow that I've only just come to
discover after you know ridingfor 60 kilometers and having you
know beautiful fresh air in yourface.
It's like the most incrediblenatural high.
And um at the end of the day, uhto be able to then have a nice
meal and stay in a nice hotel.
I mean, it's just like theultimate complement to being
able to have that physicalactivity as well.

SPEAKER_05 (03:08:34):
Oh, Dan, it really is.
Honestly, it is it is abeautiful way to see places.
It's slow travel, so you reallyyou can stop anytime, take
pictures, talk to the peopleyou're passing.
You know, you might be umchatting with the kids that are
herding the goats in Morocco, oryou know, there's so many local
people that you you have thetime to stop and meet.
And we do lots of um localwalking tours and visiting

(03:08:56):
farms, olive oil farms, ortruffle, truffle forests, you
know, all this local stuff whereyou really get to connect with
the people, which is fabulous.
And uh we just we eat really,really well.
There is never a day on a bikeodyssey that we have hangry
people, that's for sure.
Um, in fact, it's probably theonly complaint we get is that
the people don't lose weight onour trips, but they cycle all

(03:09:16):
day and they eat great and theysleep great, and so every day
you're refreshed.
Um and so it makes for afabulous, fabulous travel kind
of setup.
Everyone's happy each day,they're refreshed, and um, we
take a soigneur on on two withus, so as the riders come in,
they set up their massage tableand and fix any you know niggles
and or just give them a nicerelaxing massage.

(03:09:37):
I mean, it's honestly the way toto see the world.

SPEAKER_17 (03:09:40):
Come on, I didn't have that on my trip.
That's just this is newinformation.
I didn't realise that's anoption with some of the bike
tours.
That's really cool.
I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_16 (03:09:48):
Tell us about the one you do in Chile
specifically, since we're heretogether in Porto Natales.
What is the bike trip you guysdo in Chile?

SPEAKER_05 (03:09:55):
Uh, Chile, we do a 26-day trip from we start in
Santiago and go down through thewine country, and we basically
just make our way south, down,you know, right down the
country, and we finish in umPutmont.

unknown (03:10:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (03:10:10):
Amazing.
26 days?
Yeah, I mean incredible.

SPEAKER_05 (03:10:13):
Actually, all our trips are like that.
Well, one we have a short one.
I've just finished in Croatia.
We we ride from Venice toDubrovnik, and that's 17 days,
but that's our shortest.
Um, I think our longest isprobably Othello.
We follow the Moors through umwe start in Marrakesh in
Morocco, and we go throughMorocco, Spain, and Portugal,
ending up in Porto, and that's34 days.

(03:10:34):
Unbelievable.
So it's long trips, but most ofour clients are Australian and
we live far away, right?

SPEAKER_16 (03:10:39):
Of course.

SPEAKER_05 (03:10:40):
So if we travel, we want to travel for a good amount
of time.

SPEAKER_16 (03:10:43):
Yeah, that was my experience when I first started
working at Lonely Planet andliving in Australia, is that
people were going away for amonth, and I've never heard of
anything like that before.
Like, you know, a week is verystandard, two weeks is
exceptional in North America.
A month is unheard of.
Like you're taking a leave ofabsence if you're going for a
month.
But Australians, as you rightlypoint out, it's so far to leave
that if you're gonna go, you mayas well go for an extended

(03:11:05):
period of time.
And it is very common for peopleto take four weeks leave.
But uh just curious, with peopletaking those extended trips, are
many of your guests retirees ormany of them young uh are
professionals?
I know they're Australian, buttell us a little bit more about
the type of people that takeyour trips.

SPEAKER_05 (03:11:19):
Sure, yeah.
And you pretty much have yourdear on the head.
Most of our clientele uhretirees, so they've got the
time on their hands.
And I tell you, they just rideevery day.
They are so fit.
I'm always chasing down the70-year-old.
It's just so inspiring.
These people, they just retireand they just cycle, cycle, and
it's a a very it's a it's agreat um sport you can do
forever.

(03:11:40):
It's easy on your joints, it'svery social.
You always cycle and have coffeeon the way.
Um so yes, mostly people intheir 50s, 60s, 70s, but
actually it's getting younger.
Um certainly over the last fiveyears, and maybe it's a just a
post-COVID thing, appreciatinglife and travel, but um even
people in their 40s are comingwith us now, which is you know,

(03:12:02):
even couples with youngfamilies, maybe the um one of
the parents come with us on abike trip, and then you know,
next time the other parent goeson a yoga retreat or something,
you know, uh people seem to beappreciating um investing in
themselves and their well-being,and active holidays is just I
don't know, just is a great wayto go.
You come back, you know, havinghad a holiday and a break, but

(03:12:22):
also you feel fitter andhealthier, so it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_16 (03:12:25):
No, and I I've can certainly speak to that
firsthand from the group that wetraveled with, which was
amazing.
But the uh several of the peoplethat were there, they are I
mean, they're very activecyclists, but I'll I'll give two
sp examples.
Todd, uh who is 65 and hispartner's 69, and they travel,
they they're avid cyclists andthey're they're planning their

(03:12:45):
next big trip.
And so he was always at thefront of the pack, incredibly
fit, and he runs a bike touringcompany.
So uh but another gentleman,Arnan, who was in his mid-50s,
him and his wife are preparingfor a big race, and so he was
also at the front of the pack.
And so people are living longer,they're looking for more active
holidays, and this is a perfectway for the for people to be
able to travel, experience newcultures, and so I've it's

(03:13:08):
opened my eyes, I guess, Isabel,from um from this time last year
in Panama when I started tobetter understand the incredible
increase in people takingcycling trips.
I now get it, so it's great tomeet you here.
But let's let's talk about whatbrings you to ATTA because I
know this is your very firstATWS adventure travel world

(03:13:28):
summit, but you've been involvedwith the ATTA community for a
while.
Um tell us about what broughtyou to Chile this year and what
some of the highlights have beenfor you.

SPEAKER_05 (03:13:36):
Um so my partner, Sam, he's been to the um summit
uh a number of years, I don'tknow, maybe five or six times.

SPEAKER_16 (03:13:43):
And it was finally your turn.

SPEAKER_05 (03:13:45):
Wow, it was actually our turn last year.
We're trying to come, but ourlittle girl was crooked, really
crooked, just before it, and wehad to can it, which was such a
shame.
Um, this year, again, we'resupposed to come together for
the first time, and we had a abike fallout in Japan, and so
Sam had to fly there instead,which is you know the fallout
when you own the company, you'realways the backstop.
So he he went there.
Um so I'm here by myself andtrying to muddle my way through

(03:14:08):
this whole process.
It's just it's just anincredible experience.
I actually, you know, every timeSam came back over the last few
years, um, come comes back withso much knowledge and
connections, and and we see thatbenefits all throughout the
year.
You know, whenever thingshappen, we have a question about
something, or you know, ournewest trip is um following
Alexander the Great throughnorthern Greece into Turkey, and

(03:14:31):
then we end up cycling to thepyramids in Cairo.
But who on earth would we haveas a tour operator in Cairo, you
know, to help us?
We didn't know where to start,and so of course, ATTA, you've
got this, you know, a fabulouscommunity of people which we can
contact, and there's that basetrust there already.
So um, you know, we shareinformation, especially the bike
people here.

(03:14:52):
I mean, I'm sure the other guysget together as well, but for
for me, you know, we have a bikecommunity here and um Maria,
Eleanor, and Monica really runthe show there and they get us
together, and it's it's a greatsharing of knowledge and support
all throughout the year.
If you know there's questions onour WhatsApp group about um
anything from you know how werun receipts or how can we find

(03:15:13):
guides or how do we managee-bikes, and it's just a
wonderful, wonderful, closecommunity and very supportive.
It's not in competition, it'sjust beautiful.

SPEAKER_16 (03:15:21):
Well, and that's one thing I also uh come to
understand in the last uh fewdays here at the conference,
because we were speakingtogether on the last day of the
conference, so we have our epicyou know kind of wrap-up uh
gathering tonight, and we'llfind out officially where the
next uh destination is.
Although our listeners know andI can't say anything.
So I do I do know Shannon waskind enough to reveal it on this
episode because it's gonna uhwell, the only commitment was it

(03:15:45):
was an embargo to airing itafter today.
Um so our listeners are veryexcited about where that's gonna
be, but I can't say anythingright now.
But the one thing I wanted tohighlight that you just
mentioned is that there's asubculture within the bike
community that I've uh come tounderstand that uh over the last
couple of days.
So in the bike community, theyget together, they learn from
each other.
Several of the people who are onthe tour run different bike

(03:16:05):
companies, and they learn fromeach other with itineraries and
customer service and some oftheir marketing activity.
And I think that's that that'ssomething I would not have
realized before.
So obviously that's one of thebenefits of uh of being here
that your husband Sam hasexperienced, and now you get the
chance firsthand to meet allthese people.
Um, has there been any othersessions or other uh standouts

(03:16:25):
for you?
Because I mean, there's I mean,obviously there's so many from
us being here, but I was justcurious for especially when it's
your first time at ATWS, um, youknow, the the size of the uh the
delegation, which some peoplehave commented to me, like, I
cannot believe that there's thismany people that have traveled
here.
But yeah, what have been some ofthe other uh highlights or
standouts for you?

SPEAKER_05 (03:16:44):
Gosh, um yeah, the size is amazing.
You think, wow, all these peopleare investing, you know, in
their companies and um coming toshare, share this experience
with each other.
It's pretty inspiring.
Um, and I love it that travel issuch a um a passion.
Like everyone you talk to herecomes from somewhere they're
proud of and they love to tellyou about, and you just see you

(03:17:07):
just realise that the world is,you know, whose bucket list
isn't long, right?
But since I've been here, it hasjust exploded into you know so
many more places.
Um But I just love theenthusiasm from everyone,
everyone is excited to be here,everyone's um open to saying
hello.
You know, you're by the end ofthe day, your head's just
exploding with meeting newpeople and you and and making

(03:17:29):
connections.
It's just a a lovely atmosphere.

SPEAKER_16 (03:17:32):
Yeah, I just want to second that because the sessions
I've been involved in, Imoderated a session and I only
mentioned that because thepanelists were so amazing, and
this lady Julie, who come whotraveled all the way from Fiji
to be here, and she was soinspiring, she welled up towards
the end.
You could just see the emotionin the audience, and there are
so many smaller operators hereand that have overcome
challenges and they get so muchbenefit from being here, and

(03:17:54):
it's just such a supportive andwelcoming community.
That was like my big takeawaylast year because I thought,
okay, adventure it's gonna bemore hardcore, and everyone else
seems to know each other, andI'm gonna be that kid on the bus
at high school, and it's likeinstantly people are take a seat
next to me, keen to know you,and and so that was one of the
things that that stood out tome.
But I guess you're leaving herewith lots of new contacts, and

(03:18:17):
uh hopefully you're gonna beback when when it gets
announced.

SPEAKER_17 (03:18:21):
Obviously, hopefully you and Sam can be in ATWS, it
can be in next year.

SPEAKER_16 (03:18:29):
Yes, and I the one thing I can say for sure is it's
great cycling there.
So fantastic.

SPEAKER_18 (03:18:34):
I've said to some of my colleagues that if it ends up
being where I think it is, thenuh you can come and visit me and
um and then we can ride theretogether.
But that's the only that's theclosest I'm gonna give you.
I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (03:18:45):
Um but t tell us a little bit what's uh what's head
ahead for you guys in 2026?
Are you guys gonna open up somenew destinations?
Are you guys well, yeah, whathow is your business growing and
evolving?

SPEAKER_05 (03:18:55):
So we create um one new Odyssey every year.
They're huge trips, right?
They're a month long generally,and they take a ginormous amount
of organization.
Um this year our new trip wasJapan, Fukuoka to Mount Fuji,
and it's perfect timing forthat.
26 day.
Yeah, Aussies love Japan.
Um and we don't just takeAussies, um, anyone's welcome,

(03:19:16):
of course.
We have um a few Americans, afew Canadians, a few Kiwis,
which is lovely, and the oddperson you know from UK maybe,
but um, but mostly Aussies, andthey do love Japan.
And I I actually have met somefabulous people from Japan here,
and so we're thinking of doinganother Japanese Odyssey
sometime as well to incorporateother islands.

(03:19:36):
But um last year a new one wasVikings, Denmark and Norway.

SPEAKER_16 (03:19:41):
Yeah, that was another super popular
destination, Scandinavia andJapan, those are the two
standout destinations fortravellers that are just there's
uh people can't seem to getenough of those two
destinations.

SPEAKER_05 (03:19:51):
Yeah, they're they're super gorgeous.
Yeah.
So Vikings in Norway and umShogun is who we follow, the
Shogun in in Japan.
Um 2026 is actually the firstum, if you like, rest year we've
ever had.
All our tours are booked, but umwe haven't got a new one.
And we just did that because ourour next one in 2027, Alexander
the Great, from Thessaloniki toCairo, is um just so logistical,

(03:20:17):
it's not funny.
So we're giving ourselves a bitof extra time.
So that will launch in 27.

SPEAKER_16 (03:20:21):
Oh my god, that sounds epic.
I think I need to do that.
I think I think I have to likebe the the l the lone Canadian
amongst the Aussies that are.

SPEAKER_05 (03:20:28):
Oh no, you won't be lone Canadian.
There's some lovely canadians.
Oh, fantastic, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_17 (03:20:31):
And are e-bikes available on your tours?

SPEAKER_05 (03:20:33):
100%.
They are fabulous.
And they open up our trips to somany more people, especially
couples that one's a keencyclist, one's not, but they can
do this holiday together andit's it's wonderful.
And they don't cycle togetherduring the day.
You you always find differentpeople to cycle with.
We have we take a maximum of 24people, so it's big enough to
find, you know, people thatalways cycle at your at your
pace.

(03:20:53):
But um, yeah, e-bucks arewelcome and we we love it.
Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_16 (03:20:58):
I'm gonna have to try and convince my wife of
this.
That's one of my I've alreadytold her what an amazing time
I've had.
I'm like, we have to do acycling trip, and now you've but
people have been asking me,like, where are you gonna go
next?
And I now need to do moreresearch.
So I've been asking people like,where would you suggest we go
next?
And clearly a lot of peoplehighlight Europe, of course, for
in the right reasons.
But I loved uh riding in Chile,and I could imagine going to New

(03:21:19):
Zealand.
That's like a New Zealand isgorgeous.
Yeah, I'd love to go back to NewZealand.

SPEAKER_05 (03:21:23):
Mountain biking in New Zealand is just uh fabulous.

SPEAKER_16 (03:21:26):
Yeah.
Oh, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 (03:21:27):
Well, yeah, there's so many pla great places to
circle in the world.

SPEAKER_16 (03:21:30):
What about you and your husband?
Like outside of the trips you'rerunning, I'm sure you guys are
avid travelers as well.
I know you've got a youngfamily, so obviously that um but
is there any places that youguys actually, just the two of
you, are keen to go out andexplore?
And and also when I asked thatquestion, like when you guys
are, especially your husband asan archaeologist, like when you
guys are doing research on adestination, especially this big
trip, would you have to go therebefore and and start cycle some

(03:21:52):
of the routes?
Like, yeah, it's yes.

SPEAKER_05 (03:21:55):
So basically come up with an idea and plan it, you
know, with Google Mapsessentially, we just go, this is
where we'd love to go.
Yeah, and then we take thefamily, got two kids,
13-year-old Annie, 16-year-oldJack, and we take them, we've
dragged them around the world,you know, for most of their
lives, unfortunately.
Um I think maybe they didn'tappreciate it so much in the

(03:22:17):
early days, but they certainlydo now, and they're um they're
avid travellers and they lovegeography now and history and um
and languages, so that's been avery nice byproduct.
But um, yeah, we essentiallyrisked the family before we risk
the guests, right?
We just took them to Cairo lastyear and uh no, sorry, earlier
this year.

(03:22:38):
And um actually we went toTurkey and and tried these
goulette boats that we use foranother trip, but just to make
sure that route worked, and thatwas just fabulous, I tell you.
So staying on a goulette boat,Turkish goulette boat, for a
week and just jumping off,riding along an island, and it
sails along and meets you theother end of the island is just
a spectacular way to like tofind it.

(03:22:59):
But then we talked to the car,and that was, you know, you
know, just as you imagine.
But who doesn't want to cycle upto a pyramid?
I mean, it was just fabulous.
And essentially we take the kidsthere and see how it feels to be
there, to travel in theseplaces, and really we go more
and more towards um traveling inplaces that um maybe I guess

(03:23:21):
wouldn't go by themselves, butthey would come with a uh
someone that they trust.
And we love it that people trustwhat we do.
We announced it to Alexander umsix months ago and on the spot
had four trips sold out for2027.
I mean, we don't get the moneyyet, but you know, just saying
they want to go, and it'swonderful because it gives us
that l leeway to go, yep, cool,we'll invest in it and we work

(03:23:42):
towards it for two years, andyou know, 80 months out we'll
have a full itinerary and datesand costs and off we go.
It's just great fun.

SPEAKER_16 (03:23:49):
I am like um yeah, I'm in awe.
Like the the more you talk aboutyour business, it's just like
the it just shows how much notonly I have to learn, but also
I'm sure many of our listenersfeel the same way.
The fact that, you know, theseare the the types of itineraries
you build, the the connectionwith your husband and his
background, what goes intoplanning some of these trips.

SPEAKER_05 (03:24:08):
And you don't want to know.

SPEAKER_16 (03:24:09):
Yeah, well, just the fact it's like it's two years in
the making, you're planning for2027.
It's like um yeah, I'm I'm sointrigued.
I want to make sure all of ourlisteners, uh whether they're
customers that might actuallyconsider uh booking one of your
biking tours, but also partners,since our podcast is
overwhelmingly B2B that might beinterested in in partnering with
you in some way.
And um, so I'd love to make surethat everyone can find out more

(03:24:32):
information about you and thebusiness.
So where should they go?

SPEAKER_05 (03:24:36):
Uh our website is www.bikeodyssey.cc.
Everyone questions that, butit's Sakin Club.

SPEAKER_17 (03:24:44):
Ah, I like it.
Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_05 (03:24:46):
And all our contact details are on there.
Isabel and Sam, we own thebusiness and yeah, happy to chat
anytime.

SPEAKER_16 (03:24:52):
That's awesome.
Well, this has been a realhighlight.
I think one of the yeah, Isabelhad kindly reached out to me
about uh connecting while I washere.
She wasn't sure if we were gonnaactually do a podcast.
This is the first time thatshe's done a podcast, and
obviously it's been a fantasticdiscussion interview, so like
you're a natural.
But the other thing I wanted tosay too is that the fact that at
an event like this, you'dreached out to me, and I believe
if correct me if I'm wrong, umsome of the uh remind oh,

(03:25:16):
actually remind of our listenersof how you the uh it came about
in the first place that youreached out.

SPEAKER_05 (03:25:19):
Nora Quintus, uh lovely friend of ours,
recommended we meet with youhere.

SPEAKER_16 (03:25:24):
Fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 (03:25:24):
She's obviously a big fan.

SPEAKER_16 (03:25:26):
Yeah, no, and that's what that's so that that means
the world to me, and that's whyI wanted to make sure that we
acknowledged her uh forconnecting us.
But then the amazing part wasthe fact that we literally sat
down in a tent, like looking forthere was a bit of rain coming
down.
We there was a tent, and we bothsat down.
You said, Can I sit here?
And then we had that momentwhere we're like, wait, you're
Dan, you're Isabel, and I'mlike, I'm meeting with you on
Thursday, and here we are.
It was just like it was soserendipitous, yeah, but it was

(03:25:48):
like for me, it also highlightsthe magic of a conference like
this.

SPEAKER_05 (03:25:52):
Absolutely, and to be fair, that that was the um
the kind of the the story ofthis week.
You know, it was the openingceremony, uh my first time here,
I didn't know anyone, and it wasslightly drizzling, so I went to
find a seat on a hay bale undera tent, and Dan, you and I just
went to sit at the same haybale, and in normal
circumstances, you you mighteasily just go, oh sorry, and

(03:26:13):
just walk away, right?
But you know, I just said, Well,shall we both sit here?
Sure.
And we just sat and chatted, andit wasn't for another 20 minutes
we realized to each other work,realised we had a meeting set
up, and I just thought this isjust beautiful.
I love it that this atmospheremakes these um friendships
happen.
It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_16 (03:26:29):
I couldn't agree more.
So, no, a real pleasure to meetyou, Isabel.
I look forward to meeting Samnext year in the next
destination, and uh andcertainly keeping in touch with
you, and I'm sure many of ourlisteners will reach out.
So thanks again.

SPEAKER_05 (03:26:39):
Well, I look forward to seeing you on a bike trip
sometime.

SPEAKER_16 (03:26:41):
Sounds great in Australia or elsewhere in the
world for sure.

SPEAKER_05 (03:26:44):
Fabulous.
Thanks, Dan.

SPEAKER_16 (03:26:47):
I now have the opportunity to speak to the
person that is responsible forTravel Trends being here.
He's my good friend, ShannonStoll.
I think everybody knows whoShannon is on our podcast.
But Shannon, thanks so much forjoining us and thanks for the
opportunity for us to be here.

SPEAKER_13 (03:27:01):
Uh, I'm so happy you're here, Dan.
Thanks for thanks for saying yesand flying to the end of the
world.

SPEAKER_16 (03:27:06):
Uh it was quite a journey to get here, but I mean
it's so worth it.
This is, I mean, it was fourflights and an overnight hotel
stay, and like it was like, butit was all worth it.
I realized just how remote thisregion is, but just how special
it is, and partly for that, forthat reason.
And our listeners just heardfrom two of the most
extraordinary people that arehere at the conference.
And obviously, uh, Christine isso incredibly uh smart,

(03:27:31):
talented, and just uh soinspiring.
And I saw her on the main stageon the first day, and clearly
she's an American that moveddown to Chile, and everyone
heard her story, both fromCarolina's perspective, and then
also hearing her voice as well.
And so this is like perfect tosegue from the two of them to
speaking to you, but man oh man,what an incredible destination!

(03:27:52):
And bringing them in to be partof this, that was so special.
So I want to ask you, Shannon,what brings us to Chile and how
did you get them to be a part ofit?

SPEAKER_13 (03:28:02):
Well, this is um this is one of four destinations
that we've done summits twice inin our 20 years.
So Chile, uh, we were here inPuerto Varas back in 2015.
And so Chile's just been along-term committed member of
ATTA.
Years ago, they said, hey, wewould like to to have a second

(03:28:23):
summit in Chile, but in adifferent, a different location.
So we're about 2,000 kilometerssouth from the last event that
we did here.
And you know, Chile is just ano-brainer for the adventure
travel community.
Patagonia is on everybody'sbucket list, or as I like to
call it, the life list.
Um and so partially because it'sthe exact right location,

(03:28:47):
partially because Chile is suchan incredible partner, we're
here again.

SPEAKER_16 (03:28:50):
Amazing.
Well, one of the things that'sunique and special about the
Adventure Travel and TradeAssociation that I, you know, I
had the privilege to be inPanama last year, but I didn't
do what they refer to as a PSA,which is a pre-summit adventure.
And this year I did, and Shannonmade sure that that was
possible, and I'm so glad that Idid.
I've mentioned on our weeklypodcast already, I went cycling

(03:29:11):
for five days with this companycalled Ciclo Austral, that it
was a husband and wife, Fernandoand Claudia.
And I did a trip that I neverwould have done had I not been
to ATTA last year andinterviewed a number of the
operators that are here thattold me just how much growth and
success they were having withcycling trips, especially
because they now have the optionfor e-bikes.

(03:29:33):
Couples that wouldn't otherwisego together because one of them
might be a cyclist, the otherone might be as keen.
And also with e-bikes, it opensup all sorts of new itineraries.
So I was the only one man enoughto do an e-bike on this trip,
but it was because there was alot of other hardcore
enthusiasts.
But I'm so glad that I did thatcouple made sure that I had the
most incredible time and that Ifinished every leg of each of

(03:29:54):
the uh the races each day, ifyou will.
I made sure that like withbecause if I was concerned it
was gonna be like the Tour deFrance.
And it wasn't.
It was like, you know, thescenery and the way to
experience it.
Like I found it so exhilaratingto get that fresh mountain air
in my face for 60 kilometersevery day.
I felt so wonderful at the atthe end of every day.
It's unlike any trip I've everdone, which is definitely a

(03:30:16):
combination of the location, thescenery, the people, and
cycling.
So that was my PSA experience,but I know you did a PSA as
well.
So tell us about yourexperience, Janet.

SPEAKER_13 (03:30:26):
I will, but when you mentioned Tour de France, I
think what this uh what yourexperience should have been
called is the Chile de Chile.
Right?

SPEAKER_18 (03:30:34):
Did you hear that, Claudia and Fernando?
I think you've got a new titlefor that itinerary.
Well, actually, it woulddefinitely attract more people
because I think this is one ofthe things.

SPEAKER_16 (03:30:42):
You wouldn't um more people out there like me would
benefit from this opportunityand wouldn't otherwise think
they were up for a cycling tour.
So for sure.
Um but yeah, tell us about yourcamp.

SPEAKER_13 (03:30:53):
Well, um, you know, I always uh wait when the when
the pre-summit adventures golive.
I wait a few weeks to make surethat the buyers and the media
that put so much effort intotelling the stores and selling
the destination that they getfirst shot at it.
But after a couple of weeks,then it's fair game for some of
us on the team once in a while.
And so this year I I anxiouslyawaited when I saw Rapa Nui or

(03:31:15):
Easter Island come live as oneof the adventures.
And so I waited, I think, 10days, 14 days, and then I asked
the team, hey, is there still aspot on there?
And and sure enough, there was.
So I grabbed it and um wow, itwas mind-blowing.
And one of the one of the peoplein our in our group admitted he
they said, uh, I I thoughtRapanui was like probably a 20,

(03:31:39):
30 minute boat ride fromSantiago.
I had no idea it was a five anda half hour one-way flight.

SPEAKER_19 (03:31:45):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_13 (03:31:46):
It is way out there.

SPEAKER_19 (03:31:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:31:48):
But I think I think what really intrigued me, and I
was trying to think about youknow where the roots of this
came from, and I really I'mpretty certain that it was
because my parents subscribed toNational Geographic magazine
when I was a kid, and I devouredthem.
And uh, I'm certain that's whereI saw the first uh images of the
Moai of Rapa Nui, the big stoneheads that are so so world-known

(03:32:11):
and unique only to Rapa Nui.
So uh chose that one, and it wasmostly hiking and walking in
cultural sites.
Uh the day before I took off, Irolled my ankle super badly, so
badly I almost couldn't walk.
Oh no.
Had to go to an emergency room,got an air cast, and managed to
keep my.

SPEAKER_16 (03:32:31):
Oh my god, you don't have it on now.
I do.
Oh my god, I can't even I didn'teven realize it well.

SPEAKER_13 (03:32:35):
I hide it well.
Well, I now I'm like eight daysout from the injury, but um I I
thought it was gonna end mytrip, but it it ended up being
absolutely incredible.
Just an amazing operator.

SPEAKER_16 (03:32:46):
Tell us a little bit about so for me, I've never been
to Easter Island.
I'm obviously familiar with it.
I've seen documentaries, and umI so I'm intrigued.
It's a place I would love to goat some point.
But tell us a little bit aboutthose rock formations because I
have you obviously have now justcome off of this trip, and many
people are going to be intriguedabout Chile from our series and
Easter Island.

(03:33:06):
Easter Island is like one ofthose, it's like the Galapagos
is to Ecuador, of course, right?
Right.
Um, that people want to go andthen they don't realize how far
offshore it is.
And clearly, if you want to cometo Chile, you need to do both,
and you're getting the chance todo both.
But tell everyone about EasterIsland, a little bit more
context, and specifically thosemonuments that face out to sea.

SPEAKER_13 (03:33:23):
Well, I I definitely don't want to appear like an
expert, and uh all apologies tomy amazing guide Elena, who is
just full of knowledge anddelight and wisdom, and she, you
know, she was uh she had to putup with us for for three days,
um, which which makes her anational hero.
But the um yeah, the Moai,there's 900 of those stone heads

(03:33:44):
on the island.
And I think if I get this right,there's 300 that never left the
quarry, and for whatever reason.
So one one of the one of thereasons would have been if a
family or a clan commissionedthe carvers to carve a stone, c
carve a head, they needed to paythem with food.
And so if the food stopped, thecarving stopped.

(03:34:05):
If there was a battle betweenbetween clans, the carving
stopped.
So there's 300 that never leftthe quarry area.
Wow.
And that is a mind-blowing thingto see.
The biggest one is still there,partially in the ground, not
fully carved out, and it's uh Ithink it's 10 meters, 10 meters
high.
Yeah.
That is a lot of rock.

(03:34:26):
That is a lot of rock.

SPEAKER_16 (03:34:27):
And have they worked out how they got there?

SPEAKER_13 (03:34:30):
So you mean how they move them around?
Exactly, yeah.
So the there's all kinds oftheories, and and what you know,
the one that's kind of grabbedthe most attention is the ropes
and making it walk.
So it kind of twist and twistingback and forth.
Some some folks have uh uh havereproduced this in modern times,
but they've never done it forthe really big ones.

(03:34:51):
So some of the Moai, the reallyold ones, are you know six feet
tall.
And then the the later ones aremuch, much bigger.
So there's still there's stillmystery, which I that's what
makes it so cool, is there'sstill question marks all over
that island.

SPEAKER_16 (03:35:06):
Yeah, that's why I asked, because I mean so much of
travel for us is the wonder, theawe, the mystery.
And even one of the topics thatwe talk about and clearly is
here at the conference as well,is AI, and here we are in this
realm of the next bigtechnological leap, but we still
can't work out like the pyramidsand how they move stones and
Stonehenge, and um, andobviously Easter Island is one

(03:35:26):
of those like wonderfulmysteries that humans were able
to create these and move themaround, and we still can't in
modern times figure out how ithappened.

SPEAKER_13 (03:35:33):
My uncle sent me an article knowing that I was here,
basically saying, why do wealways assume that primitive
people were somehow behind us?

SPEAKER_16 (03:35:41):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_13 (03:35:42):
They just lived in a different environment entirely.

SPEAKER_16 (03:35:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:35:45):
They were brilliant.

SPEAKER_16 (03:35:46):
And that's one of the things that stood out to me
about Chile is the indigenouscommunity and how integrated uh
they are in society, but also inthe activities we've seen in
some of the uh when we had goneto a Patagonian barbecue and a
uh we got to experience whatsomeone referred to as the
Patagonian polka and the musicthat they performed, uh, the one
gentleman like is uh manygenerations indigenous from that

(03:36:09):
community, and everyone blendstogether so well.
And it's one of the things, youknow, here at the conference,
you certainly bring aninternational audience together,
you bring a diverse communityfrom around Chile.
You you mentioned, Shannon, ofcourse, that you've been here
before.
Um, but coming back here thisyear, what were one of the
drivers for you to come back uhto Chile?
And what's been so special, uh,PSA aside for a moment, about

(03:36:33):
the event that you've puttogether this year, the
speakers, the content.
Like for me, it is like it trulyis adventure travel.
Walking around this town andseeing Patagonia and the store,
I'm just like, this isadventure, this is ATTA.
So for me, it just feelsperfect.
Um, but yeah, tell us whatultimately brought you guys
back.

SPEAKER_13 (03:36:50):
Well, you know you're in a in an adventure
destination when you can't tellif people are delegates to
adventure travel world summit orlocals.
And I'm not kidding.
Um, but no, I mean, I I you knowI mentioned the fact that the
the government of Chile has beenincredibly supportive of us, but
also the tour operators.
You know, there's so manyChilean tour operators that have

(03:37:10):
been a deep part of the ATTAcommunity that show up
everywhere, all over the globe,wherever we put on events, there
they are.
And I I got a a text from oneyesterday saying uh at the first
Adventure Travel World Summit,my bike fleet was 15 bikes.
Now it's more than 250.
In 2015, my one my annualrevenue is equal to one month's

(03:37:33):
revenue now.
And he said the ATTA communityis the reason for that.

SPEAKER_16 (03:37:37):
That's amazing.
And I mean, that is trulygetting the money in the hands
of the right people and making ameaningful difference to their
lives, lifting people up andgiving people opportunity.
And the other aspect that Iwanted to highlight too from our
previous conversations, becauseof course many of our listeners
also know Shannon from ouradventure series.
He was uh the incredible speakerthat led off our adventure
series last year, and then himand I kicked off a series.

(03:37:59):
We did one on sustainability uhwith Tourism Cares with um Greg
Takahara, uh, which was afantastic episode.
And one of the big focuses here,and what people just heard from
our conversation with Christineand Carolina, is preservation
and conservation and theimportance of that in the
community.
Right.
And so I was asking them aboutTouras Delpine, the place we

(03:38:21):
went on the opening night, thatit was like a two-hour bus ride
and well worth it because thedestination is so spectacular.
And so that's obviously, youknow, there is adventure, but
there is conservation andsustainability at the forefront.
Everyone here believes itbecause clearly they've they've
grown up with this and they wantto protect this for future
generations.
And as they the tourism economystarts to really boom here, like

(03:38:43):
you can see, or my senses, this,especially in Patagonia, it's
taking off.
The number of new hotels thatare being built and hostels,
like the capacity is justincreasing, but everybody seems
very conscientious of doing itthe right way.
So, how did that play into thedecision to be here and some of
the not only PSAs, but also someof the sessions you guys have
been running, given theimportance of that for all the

(03:39:04):
operators?

SPEAKER_13 (03:39:05):
Oh, yeah, we we we wouldn't even consider a
destination that's not committedto sustainability.
And you know, sustainability andthe desire for it comes from a
lot of different directions.
Um I don't know if you knowthis, but many, many years ago,
a a huge part of the Torres DelPine Park burnt because of a
tourist starting a fire.

SPEAKER_16 (03:39:26):
Come on.

SPEAKER_13 (03:39:26):
Yeah, come on.
This is why well and was he fromCalifornia?

SPEAKER_18 (03:39:30):
Did he also uh wasn't the at the LA fires?
They caught that guy.
No, he might have a rap sheet,we don't know.

SPEAKER_13 (03:39:36):
They they did catch the people.
I I won't say where they'refrom, but uh to to pretty uh
keep keep international peace.
But that's why I don't know ifyou noticed when our buses
rolled in the other day, and uhthis is a story I was told ten
years ago at the summit.
When our buses rolled into thepark the other day, they said no
litter and no fires.
And right?
So conservation sometimes is islearned and earned through hard

(03:39:59):
experiences.
And so uh hearing the story ofhow the park got formed, it was
a German immigrant who came inand just said there should be
something, there's something inthe US like this, like
Yellowstone, we should be doingthat here.
It took, I think, 30, 40, or 50years to get that set up.
Um, and it finally happened inthe 70s, and now you've got this
absolutely stunning nationalpark.

(03:40:21):
So as far as conservation,preservation, it's it's just so
woven into our community.
In fact, we did a survey earlythis year, and one of the things
our our audience said is wedon't need to hear from the ATTA
as much about sustainability.
Not because it doesn't matter,but we're already doing it.

SPEAKER_16 (03:40:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a great way to putit.
I mean, and clearly it is it'sparamount, it's top of mind, but
it is just woven into thecommunity.
It's a core value to being apart of ATTA.
And that the other thing Iwanted to highlight too, and
this is where uh, as peopleheard from Christine, actually,
after we finished recording thatinterview that everyone just
heard, we were talking aboutsome of their new national parks

(03:41:01):
or some of the new parks thatare becoming national parks.
And I was just keen tounderstand more about this
because I found it sofascinating.
And she mentioned Yellowstone,to your point there, as being a
model that has kind of served asguidance to people buying up
land and then handing it over tothe government to be able to
manage and turn it into anational park.
And so it is this incrediblecombination of um private and

(03:41:23):
public uh collaborating in theright way.
And one of the things I loveabout ATTA, and I think this
comes back to many of theconversations I have with
people, is that they're runningfor-profit businesses, but they
want to do it in the right way.
And so you are it and and andthe other thing I really want to
get your take on this becauseyou were so awesome on stage, is
that on the uh at TorresDelpine, uh, I went into the

(03:41:46):
tent.
And so there was a bit of raincoming down, but it didn't
affect anything because therewere so cool, so many cool
things happening outside, thehorses and lighting the fires
and like the lamb.
And definitely, if you haven'tlooked at my at DC Trips
Instagram or look at theAdventure Travel and Trade
Association uh Instagram accountto see some of these highlights,
um, but we went into the tentand there was a band that people

(03:42:07):
were buzzing about, yeah, uh,Las Javas.
And I had no idea what I was instore for, but you came on stage
and got your rock and rollmoment to like introduce these
guys.

SPEAKER_18 (03:42:18):
And I was trying to figure out like, what's the
comparison?

SPEAKER_16 (03:42:20):
I'm like, are they like the Chilean Beatles?
Are they like the ChileanColdplay?
And it turns out like they'relike the Chilean Grateful Dead.

SPEAKER_13 (03:42:26):
I heard Pink Floyd.

SPEAKER_16 (03:42:27):
Pink Floyd, yeah, that's another yeah, that's but
the Chileans here were soexcited that this band that's
been around for 30 plus yearsand is like the biggest band
from Chile came to perform forus.

SPEAKER_13 (03:42:39):
Yeah, a little group of 600.
The whole the whole p audiencewasn't there, so it was probably
600 people.
Um, intimate, in a tent, in therain, under Torstel Pineate,
with barbecues and horses.
It uh and we didn't barbecuehorses, there were barbecues and
horses.

SPEAKER_18 (03:42:56):
Let's be clear.
We're barbecuing the lamb.

SPEAKER_13 (03:42:58):
The poor people it was it was just unbelievable.
I did feel sorry for a smallgroup of people.
Our poor friends from Fiji werefreezing.
We we made sure they all had thethe new blue ATTA uh winter hat
to try to warm up a little bit.

SPEAKER_18 (03:43:16):
I'll be sure to ask Jenny about that because she's
on my panel later today.
She's part of this.

SPEAKER_13 (03:43:19):
Yeah, Jenny, yes, she's she's gonna confirm this.

SPEAKER_16 (03:43:22):
But yeah, tell us how you got a band like so this
is where like the combination.
I was my um connection there isthe fact that like for-profit,
you you know, you need toentertain people at the same
time.
You have to find that balancewhere it can't all be about
sustainability.
It's a combination of all thesethings.
Um, it's the food, it's thecuisine, it's the culture, and
then the music.
So, like, how did that even comeabout that you guys were able to

(03:43:43):
land the biggest band in Chileto like give this what I would
consider to be like a surpriseperformance to a very small
crowd that was truly epic?
Uh, how do how do you how doesthat how did that come about,
Janet?

SPEAKER_13 (03:43:54):
Well, I don't know all the all the backroom
details, to be honest, but whatI do know uh is is what probably
played into it is that whenyou've got companies in a
destination who are really inour community, they know what's
gonna blow everyone else's mindsbecause it's their friends.

SPEAKER_19 (03:44:13):
Right.

SPEAKER_13 (03:44:13):
And so we we you know we've met, we've had so
many Chilean close friends, touroperators, and uh over the
years, and then so that thoseare the folks who are able to
speak upward into thegovernment.
Sometimes it's the governmentpeople themselves who have been
to many many ATTA events, andthey'll be like, Oh my gosh, if
we could only pull this off, itwould be absolutely perfect for

(03:44:34):
this audience.
And so it's about knowing thecommunity.
And in fact, today we met with aa destination that's going to be
announced tomorrow.
And um, one of the people whohad been to our events before
brought the big boss in andsaid, You have to come see this
in person to understand it.

SPEAKER_16 (03:44:51):
That's really cool.
I'm excited to hear about thattomorrow.
I guess that's where it's umwe're sitting here in this box
setup, and again, you see someof the photos.
It's actually a really coolsetup.
And I it's like a big arena.
There's multiple differentvenues, but we're sitting in
front of the main arena.
Shannon and I are looking downover the floor, and it's like
we're scoring uh in the box forlike a game.

(03:45:12):
Um, and that we're you know,we're up here like uh color
commentating.
But the um the sessions I'veattended so far have also been
really fascinating.
There was a content creatorsession run by Nina a little bit
earlier today that I foundreally interesting.
Tell us a little bit about thecontent and the speakers that
you brought together for thisyear's event and what some of
the highlights or standouts thathave been for you so far.

SPEAKER_13 (03:45:33):
Yeah, well, we we always try to have it be a real
mix of practical so you can takehome something uh for your
business, for your life, andthen inspirational.
So it's really a mix ofinspiration and education.
And sometimes the two do meet.
Um, but really what what we dois we listen to the community.
We're like, what what do youneed to know about?

(03:45:53):
Well, AI, definitely AI, uh,other technologies, you know,
what how are trends changing?
What what's at risk?
What what uh do we think thefuture looks like for adventure
travel and booking it online andyou know what what are those
threats and what are thoseopportunities?
And so we go out to our ourcommunity, we double check it

(03:46:14):
with people like ambassadors andfolks on our board and our team,
and then uh and then we we comebring it all together.
And so Chris Tompkins, forexample, is an obvious, you
know, her her late husband Dougspoke at the event ten years
ago.

SPEAKER_16 (03:46:28):
Oh, I didn't realize that.
Yeah, yeah.
Because he would have died, itwould have been shortly he
passed away shortly after.

SPEAKER_13 (03:46:34):
Yeah, it was a few months after, very tragic.
And um, but we stayed in intouch and Chris and I actually
did a did a um online firesidechat during COVID.
Oh cool as one of the one in ourseries to try to keep our
community's spirits void.

SPEAKER_19 (03:46:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:46:50):
Um, and then of course, uh I I could name a lot
of amazing speakers, butElizabeth Becker was also here
10 years ago.
Uh she she spoke at that timeabout overbooked her book about
tourism and kind of good and badexamples of tourism around the
world.
And she's just a fearlessadvocate for things done right.

SPEAKER_08 (03:47:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:47:09):
Uh in fact, when we first called her, she goes, you
know, I'm not always nice to thetourism industry.
And I was like, Great, bring iton.
We'll take it.

SPEAKER_16 (03:47:17):
Well, on one of the opening sessions, I want to
highlight this too, because itwas like star-studded.
You had Arnie Weissmanmoderating a panel.
Arnie's been on our TravelTrends podcast.
We did a standalone episode withArnie, and I he's one of those
people in the industry that justhave such a huge respect for.
He's like the largest voice tothe American trade community.
I introduced him somewhatearlier today because they
actually asked to interview me,and I'm like, actually, you need
to interview Arnie.

(03:47:38):
This is the person I need toknow.
And um, and so legend.
Absolute legend.
He moderated a panel.
And who did you have on there?
You had Heidi from EF, who gaveone of them Heidi Durflinger,
the CEO of EF World JourneysUSA.
She is uh just recently on ourpodcast because of ATTA.
I had a chance to see her give athe amazing keynote in Denver.
And she just killed it.

(03:47:58):
She was so good on stage andclearly a captain of industry.
So we had her on the series, butthen you also had uh Alex
Narcott.
Alex Narcott from Much BetterAdventures.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh my, that's apanel you need to see to kick
things off.
I'm like, you don't see thatelsewhere.
You don't see those two peopleon stage with Arnie talking
about multi-day tours and likethe adventure travel.
So yeah, that was a bighighlight for me.

SPEAKER_13 (03:48:20):
That was a lot of firepower in one stage at one
time.
Totally, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_16 (03:48:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:48:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (03:48:25):
Well, for those people who don't know, like, I
mean, there clearly we'rereaching people with this
podcast that are connected toATTA.
This is our, you know, I'm veryhonored to be the official
podcast partner with ATTA.
So I know many of you listeningto this are part of the ATTA
community.
And I appreciate you tuning infor our travel trends podcast
and all of our global traveltrends podcast listeners.

(03:48:45):
I really want to make sure youlearn more about ATTA and get
involved because I was shockedthat it has taken me this long
uh to get to an ATTA event.
I mean, it was last year.
It's been exactly 12 months.
Since then, I've been, you know,this is my third event.
And the number of people I'vespoken to here that have been to
so many other events, they'vebeen to like four or five of
your regional events, they'vebeen to elevates, but they've

(03:49:06):
not been to an adventure travelworld summit before.
And like you've seen peoplelike, this is my tenth year, and
other people like this is myfourth, other people, this is my
first.
And it's just like it buzzeswith excitement.
So tell us a little bit aboutpeople getting involved in the
ATTA community.

SPEAKER_13 (03:49:20):
Yeah, you know, um, I think well, I'm and I'm gonna
be writing an essay on this, butit's gonna be called Join or
Die.
And it and it's it comes from aBenjamin.
Two stark options there.
Yeah, it comes from a BenFranklin uh conversation back in
the American Revolution where hesaid, we're either gonna hang
together or we're all gonna hangseparately.

(03:49:41):
And the point was, you know, weare facing some really hard
times in the travel industry andthe geopolitical world.
And so this the whole point ofthis essay is gonna be to say we
need to hang together, be closetogether during this time so
that we are not divided, um,because division is such a
problem right now.
So I encourage companies and andorganizations to join ATTA if

(03:50:05):
you have any interest in theactive adventure, culture,
nature, you know, this is thisis the part of the travel
industry that will welcome youwith open arms.
And like one of our uh threethree-time speakers, Thornton
May, who's a uh futurist, yearsago, he said, your network will
keep you safe.
And so we really saw that duringthe pandemic, that with few

(03:50:28):
exceptions, people treated eachother, you know, even in really
dire business circumstances,took care of each other,
protected each other.
And and I feel like that is soimportant right now when
conservation is at risk, youknow, poverty in rural
communities that were beingserved by USAID and adventure
travel projects.

(03:50:49):
You know, there's just a lotfacing us right now.

SPEAKER_16 (03:50:51):
Well, the thing that amazed me when we were together
in Denver was that half of theattendees came from outside the
US, and many of them clearly hadtheir reservations about
traveling to the U.S.
I think most of our listeners doknow that U.S.
international travel is downabout 10%.
That's six million travelersthat have decided not to travel
to the U.S.
this past year.
Uh, but yet your numbers were upand they were up.

(03:51:12):
And I spoke to a number ofpeople and they said, I have my
reservations about traveling tothe US for these geopolitical
reasons, but I'm here to supportATTA in this community.
So your point, I mean, it's uhresounding in the room that
people want to be together, theywant to be connected.
You've got incredible turnouthere in Chile for such a you
know a far destination to travelto, which again, I think is is

(03:51:32):
part of the beauty andultimately the appeal, but it
also requires a commitment, evenin my case, you know, being away
for two weeks, which I mean,realistically, there's no place
I'd rather be.
But at the same time, it's anextended period of time to be
away from anyone from theirbusiness obligations, so they
have to make a real commitmentto being here.
And um, and so when we lookforward, and this is the part

(03:51:53):
that I'm so looking at.
So tomorrow's the last day ofthe conference, and one of the
cool things I experienced lastyear is you guys announced the
next destination.
I don't know you can't reveal ityet, but by the time people are
listening to this, they're gonnaknow.

SPEAKER_18 (03:52:03):
I have some I have a bit of an inkling, and I'm
really hoping I'm right, but Idon't have um, but is there
anything you can tell us nowabout where ATTA is headed in
2026?

SPEAKER_13 (03:52:16):
Only with a uh ironclad promise you won't
release this before tomorrow.

SPEAKER_16 (03:52:21):
Okay, and in that case, you you have my word.
You have my absolute word, andour listeners are gonna hear
this because it will likely willhave aired uh a week or two
after the event.
Yes, and so um, so yeah, youhave my absolute promise, and
the rest of these recordings, uhthe listeners now you're gonna
know, but every conversationyou're gonna hear on this
podcast, no one else is gonnahave any idea.
Right.

SPEAKER_13 (03:52:40):
You're sort of hearing sort of hearing at
first, and yet you're nothearing it first.
Exactly.
So we're we'll be in Quebec,Canada.
Amazing, and it will beabsolutely off the hook.

SPEAKER_16 (03:52:51):
Oh my god, that's what I was hoping to hear.
I saw there was a lot of peoplefrom Quebec here.
I remember last year there wassort of a buzz that maybe it's
gonna be in Quebec.
And all I could think was like,how cool would it be to go from
Chile, like the end of the worldand the south, all the way up to
Canada and the north.

SPEAKER_13 (03:53:06):
Well, and and not only that, Dan, it makes your
country the first to hit threesummits.

SPEAKER_16 (03:53:11):
Wow.

SPEAKER_13 (03:53:11):
Because we did Whistler and then Whistler in
07, Quebec in 09, and now Quebecagain in 2026.

SPEAKER_16 (03:53:18):
And when you say Quebec, are we saying uh Quebec
City?

SPEAKER_13 (03:53:21):
That's right.
So that's a little last time wewent to Charlebois, which was
also incredible.
And today I was at thedestination panel and we were
talking, the the folks fromQuebec were talking about
indigenous tourism, and I didn'tget a chance to say anything,
but I was like, you guys were onit in 2009.
I remember shockingly um faraway, small indigenous tourism

(03:53:42):
operators coming in and being apart of the event, bringing
their dog, their their dogs forthe dog sleds, and everybody
just ooing and awing over thisamazing offering that you you
couldn't even imagine existeduntil you met them.

SPEAKER_16 (03:53:57):
That's so cool.
Well, like the number of peopleon our trip were saying, Oh, I
hope it's Quebec next year.
I think there might, there's achance it might be Quebec.
There's already kind of a buzzbuilding around it.
And it thrilled me to no end,knowing that it'd be in Canada.
And Quebec is such a specialplace within our country, uh,
historically, linguistically,uh, and geographically, it has
so much to offer, especially foradventure travel.
And I had said to a few people,if it does, if that happens,

(03:54:19):
come meet me in Toronto, we'llride bikes.

SPEAKER_18 (03:54:21):
Because now that I'm like we will cycle take, we will
ride again.
This group will ride again.
We ride it on.

SPEAKER_13 (03:54:28):
Well, I don't know if you know this, Dan, but we uh
ATTA co-founded a anorganization called Beyond
Borders Travel Coalition.
And it's about 10 associationsin travel in Canada and the U.S.
And our whole goal is to elevatethe conversation above the
horrible divisiveness that'scoming from the U.S.
right now.

SPEAKER_16 (03:54:47):
Yeah, one thing I actually do know about that,
because I actually I wasthrilled that that initiative,
and I've referenced it a numberof times because one of the
things that Shannon the teamhighlighted with that is that
you know, here we are onopposite sides of the border,
and the media plays differentmessages, and obviously so do
the political parties.
And one of the things that we'vecertainly seen in Canada, and
I've spoken openly about this,is that the media has also made

(03:55:08):
us fearful of traveling to theUS.
And there's many Americans Ilove traveling to the U.S.
I've got so many great Americanfriends, and so I try and get
the signal from the noise, andwhat clearly Canadians are not
traveling to the U.S.
And some of that tariffs,concern about the economy, like
there's there's validity tothat.
However, it gets amplified whenyou start hearing horror stories

(03:55:29):
of people getting pulled over atthe border.
And one of the things yourreport identified is that there
actually has not been anincrease in the number.
There's an increase in thenumber of media attention
towards people who get detainedat the border because there's a
hyper-awareness, but the actualnumber is not substantially
increased by any stretch.

SPEAKER_13 (03:55:48):
No, no, and in fact, that plays out from one of our
BBTC coalition members who takesbus bus tours across every day.
Said we have had zero incidents.
So even though there have beensome, and you know, it doesn't
matter how many there are, it'slike high exposure.
It's just terrifying to imaginethat.

SPEAKER_19 (03:56:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:56:07):
And um, yeah, I think that what what our
coalition and what our job is todo as travel people, travel
professionals, is to elevate theconversation and remind
everyone, including the commontraveler, that we are not
enemies, that we are friends,and we will we have been
friends, we're gonna continue tobe friends.
I had to walk away from somebodyin a parking lot the other day

(03:56:29):
because they had a bumpersticker that said Nuke Canada.
And I thought I I just cannotbelieve the depth to which some
of this has gone.
And so I feel very fiercelyabout it.
And I think Canada did anamazing job with that ad of uh
showing the the woman runningthe front desk at a hotel just

(03:56:50):
completely welcoming an Americanwho's very hesitant because he's
like, ah, how am I gonna betreated?
Yeah, it's a great campaign.

SPEAKER_16 (03:56:57):
Well, there was um, I mean, there's so many stories
of Americans coming up to Canadaand in a breakfast restaurant,
buying everyone breakfast andsaying that I don't agree with
the policies and just know I Ilove Canada.
Yeah, and so there's thesewonderful heartwarming stories,
and this is where connecting ona on a human level, getting out
of the geopolitical noise, andum that there are some really

(03:57:17):
inspiring stories.
And I think this is the we stillneed to travel, we need to cross
borders.
And I I'm so excited it's gonnabe in Canada for all the
Americans that are listening tothis.
Um, and I have mentioned this afew times on our podcast, is
that you know, you are welcomein Canada, but also Americans
are welcome internationally.
That's one of the things thatAmericans have started to not
travel internationally, and thatfrightens me because the concern

(03:57:39):
that Americans are concernedabout how they're gonna be
received.
And the reality is that, and youknow this, and anyone pretty
much in the travel industryknows the reality is they're
gonna love to see you becauseyou're 100%.
Yeah, like it's like it's sodon't there shouldn't be any
hesitations.
Right.
Like keep traveling.

SPEAKER_13 (03:57:54):
I agree.

SPEAKER_16 (03:57:54):
Now tell us um just to just to finish off here,
Shannon, in as far as uh thedate for the event, um, do you
have that officially lockeddown?
And where can now peoplelistening to this sign up to
become a member of ATTA and planto join?
And you also have a lot ofevents happening between now and
then.
We should mention that too.

SPEAKER_13 (03:58:10):
We we do, and and I and I I won't talk about those
right now for a number ofreasons.
And I actually don't know theexact dates, but um you can go
to adventure travel.biz and goto the events tab, and it will
be there within probably 24hours or so.

SPEAKER_16 (03:58:24):
Amazing.
That's fantastic.
Well, Shannon, I can't thank youenough for bringing me in for
our friendship, our partnership,all of our collaborations.
I look forward to the nextseries of adventure episodes
that we're gonna do together.
I know you have a number ofexciting ideas for guests and
how we're gonna bring thosetogether, so make sure that you
look out for those.
And uh good luck with the restof the conference and everything
uh planned for ATTA in the yearahead.

SPEAKER_13 (03:58:45):
Thanks, Dan.
Always a pleasure to be here,and you're such a bright light
in this community.
Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_16 (03:58:50):
Thanks, man.
It means a lot.
I now am thrilled to introducesomeone that has made this trip
so extraordinary.
You've heard about her and herhusband Fernando over the course
of this event spotlight herefrom ATTA, and you've heard from
uh Kayla, who was on our trip.
You've also heard from Nina, andI finally have the opportunity

(03:59:13):
to bring Claudia, who is theco-founder of Ciclo Austral.
She's originally from Santiago,or actually another town, but
we'll get into that.
But she is she's a professor,she is so impressive, and she
gave us the most incredibleexperience that I will never
forget here in Chile of doingthis five-day biking tour that

(03:59:34):
not only was like, you know, itwas beautiful, and we met some
amazing people, but it was somuch fun.
And I think that was like it waslike anyway.
I've had so many wonderfulhighlights from that week, and I
can't, I wanted to actuallystart by saying thank you.
Like a sincere thank you for uhensuring that I actually took
the trip because I know Iemailed you before because I was
like, I don't think I can dothis.

(03:59:55):
You you emailed me back toreassure me.
You're like, you can ride in thevan some days, you can, and I
didn't need To.
Yeah.
And then Fernando hung back withme on that first day when I, my
fault, my battery ran down.
That everyone heard that storyfrom Nina as I was riding on
power mode.
And uh, but it was the start ofwhat ended up being like a
magical week.
So, first thing I want to say,Claudia, is thank you for an

(04:00:16):
amazing experience on thispre-trip uh PSA, as they call
it.
And um so and welcome to TravelTrends, your first podcast.

SPEAKER_07 (04:00:25):
Yes, my first.
No, and thanks to you because umit's important that the people
are open to enjoy to experiencethe the carretera.
Yes.

SPEAKER_16 (04:00:36):
Yeah, no, and it's so let's let's tell everyone
about what's first tell useveryone about the company
first, Ciclo Austral.
And so tell us a little bit howhow this company started, uh,
yourself and Fernando, becauseobviously you guys were into
cycling, you're both professors,and so you had you know a
certain amount of time of theyear off.
So this is my understanding.
But yeah, tell us how youcreated this incredible cycling

(04:00:57):
company.

SPEAKER_07 (04:00:57):
Okay.
Uh we were in the uh universityat the time, and a professor
asked us what we think is themost sustainable uh type of
travel.
And it was the bike, like thecyclotourism.
So we um start planning to go tothe Carretera Australia by bike,

(04:01:21):
uh 45 days, 2000 kilometers.
Wow.
And when we went, we just uhfound people from everywhere but
not from Chile.
Uh so we start thinking if whatif uh we bring people here to
know uh their own country, andin 2012 we did the first tour.

(04:01:47):
Like uh with two 28 people, itwas a little bit more.
Wow, 28 people?

SPEAKER_16 (04:01:53):
Yeah, I think we had 11 on our trip.
I cannot imagine 28 people, butI guess you needed that number
of people to start to haveenough people.

SPEAKER_03 (04:02:00):
This is like a test.

SPEAKER_16 (04:02:01):
Yes, yeah, and those people that that first trip were
they Chileans or were they interinternational?

SPEAKER_07 (04:02:06):
Mostly Chileans.
Uh there was just one peoplefrom uh uh other country, it was
Spain and uh all the others likeChilean people all in uh into
the their bikes with penny,really heavy, really long days.

SPEAKER_16 (04:02:27):
I couldn't even imagine.
Well, even as you pointed out tome at the start of our trip,
because you made someadjustments, and I know you lost
a lot of sleep the week beforebecause the weather was changing
day by day, and you guys reallypulled it off.
But I know that our first daywould have been a hundred
kilometers, which I couldn'teven imagine, but it was only
60.
You guys like drove us a portionof the way.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutthis itinerary that you put

(04:02:47):
together, because every othercyclist that night, and we had
two pre-calls that you guys hadkindly organized, and I quickly
realized I was out of my depth,as you know, with the other
people that were coming on thistrip because they're avid
cyclists, they were training,they had all the gear, they had
a thousand questions for you,and that's when I was like, what
have I got myself into?
But one of the things I didn'trealize was just um, and it was

(04:03:08):
Steve on the very first night,talked about the fact that this
has been a dream of his for manyyears to come and cycle in the
ISIN region, and it's consideredto be, and they've you've heard
Kyla and now and Nina talk aboutthe fact that it actually is a
more challenging ride or an areato cycle.
So I again I didn't even realizethat was what I was signing
myself up for either.

(04:03:28):
But tell us how you decided tocreate these types of
itineraries.

SPEAKER_07 (04:03:31):
Um so the Carretera Stral is one of the most
important roads for thecycloturist.
Uh is one of the dreams ofeveryone that uh we are like
traveling on the bikes.
Uh but when we start traveling,uh we realized that we had these
little towns like 60 kilometersfrom each other, and you can

(04:03:54):
ride all all the way all the dayuh and stay in one place uh with
the accommodations, with theservices.
So the itinerary that wedesigned for for the PSA uh we
wanted that you experience theCarretera Austral in different
ways, like on the bike, on thewater, with the kayaking, uh

(04:04:19):
hiking.
That we can do uh all that wecan.

SPEAKER_16 (04:04:26):
Well, the kayaking that was another day that I
didn't think that I was going tobe able to make that happen
because I'm just not a kayaker.
I've been twice and then uhneither of them have been.
I did have a little bit of helpthough.

SPEAKER_18 (04:04:36):
I just uh actually Claudia kindly offered to double
with me, and I said to her,like, I don't want that for you.
I'm like, that's not like Idon't want you to have that
experience.

SPEAKER_16 (04:04:45):
Um but Todd, one of uh other one of the other guests
on the trip, uh powered me alongand like it went, but it was
beautiful.
I'm so glad that I went.
But even the fact you were soreassuring to say, like, no,
like you can't miss this.
The marble caves were sobeautiful and getting out on the
water and seeing it at sunrise,like the timing of that, and I
know some of our listeners mayhave seen my Instagram post, but
the timing of like arriving inthe dark, it's starting to get

(04:05:06):
lighter out, and as soon as weuh took to the water, yeah, all
of a sudden the sun just cameover the mountain range, and it
was like it was epicallybeautiful.
It was just one of those momentsthat was just like, say, it was
magical.
There's no better way todescribe this past week than
than magical, and that was ahuge highlight.

SPEAKER_07 (04:05:21):
So no, and and it was um it's it's really good to
do it on the sunrise, butnormally the people just go on
on the boat or uh and in thesunrise the uh the light uh and
the colors of the lake is sodifferent, so we try to do
different.

SPEAKER_16 (04:05:41):
Yeah.
Uh tell us so your backgroundtoo.
I just want to make sure thateveryone also understands like
you're uh a professor.
So tell us a little bit aboutand Fernando is as well, and I
know he's focused on he did hismaster's in sustainability over
in Japan a couple years ago, andyou guys had traveled around
there.
Um tell us a little bit aboutwhat you teach, where you teach,
and what you teach.

SPEAKER_07 (04:06:00):
Okay, um I teach in two different universities.
Uh I have two courses inConcepcion, it's in the middle
of Chile, and I teachdestination management and
experience design, like intourism.
Obviously.

SPEAKER_03 (04:06:13):
Perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:06:14):
It's ecotourism the uh the topic, obviously.
And we do also uh in PuertoMontt, that's really far away,
yeah uh another course of uh isuh cyclotourism, but they're
mostly operations of tourism.

SPEAKER_16 (04:06:32):
And I know you love teaching.
I've been uh chatting with youover the last couple of days and
you were saying how much youlove teaching because the
business is so successful, itcould be you know full-time
reality for both of you, butclearly you love teaching.
And you're obviously like forme, I look at you and you're
like one of those professors Iwould love to have.
You know, just like you know,that's like because you're so
passionate about what you do andyou're such an expert.

(04:06:52):
I think it actually it's acompliment that you can do both
because some people who work inthe academic world don't
necessarily succeed in thebusiness world, and some people
who work well in the commercialbusiness world struggle in
academics, yeah.
And so you are and and Fernandotoo, like quite rare that you
can both you can do both.

SPEAKER_07 (04:07:08):
Yeah, uh, I think we we start uh teaching because
when I was studying, uh I I wasalways thinking I need to know
more, and I need someone withthe experience in tourism or or
in um uh with in business toexplain me what I'm going to

(04:07:29):
what what I can I can do or whatthe problems that they have.
So uh when the university askedme to do classes, I was like I
was not sure.

SPEAKER_03 (04:07:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:07:40):
But I struggle so much to have this business and
to do the things that I reallylove and and to see the people
enjoying the things that I enjoyalso of the Carretero Straight.
So um I was not sure, but uh I Ialready have four years doing it

(04:08:01):
and I love it.

SPEAKER_16 (04:08:02):
And it just it should it shows, right?
Like it's just like and thenthat's where this um group
dynamic that wouldn't have evenbeen possible if it wasn't for
the two of you leading, andobviously you you were at the
front and Fernando was at theback, and I I was often in I I
was leading the way for most ofit.
Let's go.

SPEAKER_07 (04:08:18):
You you are in the front, like really strong.

SPEAKER_16 (04:08:22):
Except for that one day.
Except for that one day, but umthe the group dynamic that
you've been able to form and theteam, like Danny, Paolo, and
even all the uh suppliers thatwe met along the way, and Nina
mentioned this.
She was she was kind to pointthat out.
And I think it's important torecognize all these local
partners, the accommodationsthat we stayed in.
Um, it it like everything justflowed so well.

(04:08:44):
And it also built towards a anincredible lodge that we stayed
at at the end of the trip.
And so tell us a little bitabout these partnerships because
I think it's one of the thingsthat you guys have brought
together that's so special thatyou have cultivated these
relationships over the last 13years of running this business.
And someone else can't just comeinto that region and just start
running bike tours like you guysdo.

(04:09:04):
It's uh so yeah, tell us alittle bit about how you've been
able to build thoserelationships and grow this
business.

SPEAKER_07 (04:09:11):
Uh when we start uh doing these uh tours, we met
some people that they wanted tostart also their businesses.
Um and I think uh through theyears we grow together.
Uh we have the same problemsbecause the logistics and the
problems of the carretera is thesame for all for all, like uh

(04:09:34):
road coded, uh rain for manydays or something like that.
Uh so we are we are connectedall the time.
Uh if someone has a problem,they are all uh like worried
about them and helping eachother.

(04:09:54):
So I think in uh the suppliersthat you met in our tours, um
they they have more years thanus, some of them working.
And when we start, they werelike really happy to receive us.

SPEAKER_03 (04:10:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:10:12):
So uh for for us it's really important that the
uh that the tours is not justwriting, it's to me the people,
the local people, the problems,the uh what they love of the
carretera, also, because you cansee through their eyes that the
the air in carretera is like uhlike live alive?

SPEAKER_16 (04:10:36):
Alive, yeah, that's a great way to put it.
Yes.
I certainly felt alive, like somore alive than ever for like
this last week, especially afterhaving um such such uh pure
mountain air going into mynostrils for 60 kilometers at
the the the speed that I wastraveling, and so it was a pure
natural high.
Um one of the things about thesuppliers too is that many of

(04:10:56):
them have come here as well tobe here at ATWS.
So obviously, we're all thrilledthat we knew that you were going
to be joining us, so you flewdown with us.
Uh we have Mary here, who herand her Chilean husband mary is
from Cleveland, Ohio.
So she's American, but has livedhere for about 16 years and has
two kids that are uh Chilean.
And um, we also, the lady andher name now eludes me, she's

(04:11:19):
Chilean that um taught us uhforest bathing.

SPEAKER_07 (04:11:22):
Uh uh Trini.

SPEAKER_16 (04:11:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_07 (04:11:25):
Yeah, she's here.

SPEAKER_16 (04:11:26):
She's here as well.
Yeah, I haven't spoken to her uhvery much at the event, but I
had never done forest bathingbefore, and that was like our
last big day, like we werefinishing our cycling and um and
so and for people who uh like uswith so much energy, the forest
baiting is something like weird,but it works.

SPEAKER_07 (04:11:44):
Okay, to be quiet and enjoy uh in a different way.

SPEAKER_16 (04:11:48):
Well, when we got to the end of the track, and you'd
said to me actually, because I Iwas always asking questions
about what's next, what's next,um that's the type of guest that
I am.
I always want to know what'saround the next corner, and you
were saying, Oh, you know, thenext day is gonna be uh
beautiful as well.
Like because I it kept it keptbuilding until the last day we
got to a glacier, and then wedid a hike up to the glacier,
and then we got to do forestbathing, and I just want to make
sure I all of our listeners knowwhat that means because I

(04:12:11):
didn't, and everyone else seemedto know.
Um, but tell everyone whatforest bathing is, if you
wouldn't mind.

SPEAKER_07 (04:12:16):
Okay.
Um techniques to connect withthe forest.
We not just the forest, it'swith the earth, with uh um the
place that you are like uhvisiting.

SPEAKER_03 (04:12:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:12:31):
Uh that day we could smell uh the lichens, the trees.
It's like you use all your senseto connect uh what in the place
that you are.

SPEAKER_16 (04:12:47):
Yeah, I love that because obviously traveling is
all of for you know, certainlyfor me and most people, it's
about like um utilizing all ofour senses and being like
present and in the moment.
And I did have the initialfeeling like this is kind of
weird, as I'm like, everyone'swalking around sniffing trees,
and I was like, whatever.

SPEAKER_18 (04:13:03):
Like, but I think I could only go there because if
that was the first day, maybe itwould have been far more weird.

SPEAKER_16 (04:13:09):
But I've been hanging out with all these
people and everyone's doing it,and then I kind of realized that
I was like, so I can't, I youknow, got on with it, and I was
just like, actually, I Igenuinely felt more connected to
nature by slowing down, taking amoment, and like and being able
to like explore the forest,which started off with um our
sense of smell and the sense oftouch, and then also we were

(04:13:31):
using magnifying glasses to lookat like the smaller ecosystems
that exist, and so it was yeah,it was just there were so many,
so many highlights.

SPEAKER_07 (04:13:39):
Uh it's a Japanese technique.
Yes.
Uh it's Rinjoku.
Yes.
That is the name.

SPEAKER_16 (04:13:44):
So we we did this amazing trip, and I obviously I
want to keep talking about it,but I know we bring ourselves
back to ATTA and ATWS.
And so, you know, you've had theopportunity to come here, and
this is the end of this eventspotlight, and Shannon is
actually doing the closingaddress uh this very moment and
about to announce next year,which all of our listeners do
know, and you're gonna find outvery shortly.

(04:14:06):
But um, I wanted to talk aboutATTA and your experience here
over the last couple of days.
I'd love to hear some of thehighlights of being here.
Obviously, you've got a lot ofgreat friends here, but yeah,
tell me some of the highlightsof ATWS in Chile this year.

SPEAKER_07 (04:14:20):
Um the thing is like uh recognition for us uh to be
in the middle of other touroperators like big companies,
and they have the opportunity toshare uh our experience, our
services obviously.
If uh and I think the uh thedifferent panels that they have,

(04:14:43):
uh it's uh for us it's like acontribution, obviously, for uh
improve our services, uh improveuh uh all the things that we are
doing.
And it's like a family.

SPEAKER_03 (04:14:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:14:57):
It's like doing because uh you talk about the
same problems, uh about uh howdo you use that, and you learn
from each other.
And I think uh we didn't havethe opportunity to to have this
kind of um in in improve.

SPEAKER_16 (04:15:16):
Yes, exactly, yeah.
Well, one thing you'd pointedout to me is there's actually a
group of uh cycling touroperators that keep connected to
each other, and one thing youalso highlighted too is it's
mainly male-dominated, andthat's something else because we
were at the and so uh there youyou know you are uh a great
representative for um anexecutive in travel and what
you've accomplished, but also asa female leader in this

(04:15:37):
industry, which is also veryimportant.
And most far less just know Iwas raised by a single mom, so
that's incredibly likemeaningful and important.
Uh, and I did go to the women'stravel leaders event last night,
and um, and so the the the otherpart that I wanted to talk about
with as it relates to thatthough is that people heard on
this podcast, I spoke to Isabel,and she's from Australia, and
she's here for the very firsttime at ATWS.

(04:15:58):
They run a cycling uh company inin Australia focused on uh
Japan.
Uh her husband's anarchaeologist, so it is a
husband and wife, and they umand a fascinating story, but
they also one of the bigbenefits of them coming here, as
she was telling me, ourlisteners heard, was connecting
with other cycling operators.
So within the adventure travelcommunity, there is a subculture

(04:16:19):
of group of you know cyclingoperators that get to know each
other and that network together.
And so I know you guys had likedrinks the first night, I think.
There was like a gathering.

SPEAKER_07 (04:16:28):
Yeah, it was um after the day of adventure,
yeah.
Um is really good because um I Iknow that the ATT is full of uh
all the these adventure uhcompanies, travel companies, but
for us to have the opportunityjust to talk about trailers,

(04:16:49):
about bikes, uh uh brands, youknow, normally we don't have the
uh that kind of um uh like uhconversation with other
operators because they do otherkind of things, yeah.
Uh so it's um it's really good.
The uh and uh for us is like umto know what they are doing,

(04:17:13):
what they think about our umlike world.

SPEAKER_16 (04:17:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:17:19):
Yes, yeah, no, and it's uh it's a really good
opportunity.

SPEAKER_16 (04:17:22):
It's so important to learn from each other and to
support each other, and andthat's certainly what happens
here at ATTA.
I mean, you described it as afamily.
I feel it's very much like I Ifound my tribe, like these are
my people.
This is like, you know, I andthe one other really cool thing,
which was on I guess the openingnight when we went to uh Torres
del Pine.

(04:17:42):
Yes, thank you.
Again, I want to try to get myum tell everyone.
It's getting better every day.
Thank you.
I'll try it.
I will eventually, I will, Iwill get there.
But um tell everyone about theband.
We've talked about that.
I talked to a Shannon, I wasjust like, tell everyone because
you knew what was gonna happenbecause you've seen this band
multiple times, and it was justlike another one of these like

(04:18:03):
incredible highlights.
But I'd love to hear it fromyour point of view because you
were educating me at the time,and I now follow them on
Spotify, and I've been listeningand downloading their songs.
I'm like, how have I never heardabout these guys?

SPEAKER_07 (04:18:13):
But yeah, tell everyone about the I was yelling
all the time, like reallyexcited.
Uh Los Jaivas, that's his name,uh, is one of the most important
uh group musical in in Chile.
It's like I don't know, it'shuge.
And I never had the opportunityto be so close to them.

(04:18:34):
And it it was I I feel it wasreally like um they were singing
to each one, it but they were soclose, uh, was it really intimo?

SPEAKER_16 (04:18:45):
Yeah, there was the six of them, and like the female
drummer, and I asked you likewho's your favorite?
Yeah, Juanita.
Yeah, so good.
Yeah, she was extraordinary andshe was just into it.
Like she was singing and justlike it was so cool.
Um, but these are so many, likeso many uh incredible
highlights.
And um, but for you and and umand cycloastral, I'd love to
know, you know, finishing hereat ATTA, and very soon we should

(04:19:08):
be able to share where it'sgonna be next year, because
obviously it's gonna be a prettycool um connection.
But uh tell us a little bitabout Cicloastral and where you
guys are headed in 2026.
Because I want to make sure allof our listeners not only have
the chance, if there aretravelers, they need to.
I had so many people reach outto me, or several people, I

(04:19:28):
should just to be very specific,um, reached out to me to uh on
Instagram asking, like, who areyou traveling with?
What is this incredible tripthat you're on?
Like, my my wife and I want todo this.
Like, we've always wanted to gothere, and so hopefully I can
send more customers your waybecause I think they would love
it.
I think it would be trulytransformative travel.
I think that is the future ofour industry, and I think you

(04:19:49):
represent the future of wheretravel is headed.
And um, but yeah, tell us whatsome of your plans are for
cycloostral and new destinationsand yeah, what your plans are
for 2026.

SPEAKER_07 (04:20:01):
Uh new destinations, yes.
Yeah, I would love it.

SPEAKER_16 (04:20:05):
Because you design the itineraries.
Not only do you teach kids howto do it, you actually also do
it.
And it's like I know that's yourfavorite part of your job, too,
right?

SPEAKER_07 (04:20:12):
Yeah, yeah, to design.
Uh, I think the the my favoritepart is when I know the people
that I'm designing a little bit,and I can design something like
really special for them.
And after just to see themenjoy.
Uh I think next year um we havesome dreams like uh to bring

(04:20:35):
this kind of activity toeveryone.
And now we have the e-bikes, andI think for Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_17 (04:20:41):
Yes, you do.
That's like that game changer,yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:20:44):
Yeah, and that will have the uh all the people will
have the opportunity to come andto live uh a li like a live life
experience with us.
Uh I think we try to do thethings uh or the tours um like
special, like living the thereal Patagonia, uh smelling the

(04:21:08):
all the flowers and the treesand um I don't know, it's um I
think we will improve ourservices with some new new
places but also new activities.

SPEAKER_16 (04:21:23):
And you'll remain focused on Chile, it's still
gonna offer uh yeah, for now.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:21:30):
Uh yes, because uh the thing is uh we do
cyclotourism, that is uh ourspeciality, but we want to do
multi-activities too,multi-sport.
So you can leave the Patagoniaon the water, on the oh
fantastic, yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (04:21:46):
That's well, because even if the branding is
cycloastral, like obviously yousaid, like we we did kayaking,
we did hiking, so the idea is tomake sure that it's not just
cycling, it's uh you'reexpanding into other adventure
categories too.

SPEAKER_07 (04:21:59):
Yes.

SPEAKER_16 (04:21:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:22:00):
I don't want that you miss anything about the
Patagonia.
I want that you leave you reallyfeel and experience all you know
the ways.

SPEAKER_16 (04:22:11):
And I think that's uh probably the the best way for
it to be experienced because youknow, especially from a
sustainability point of view andjust how meaningful that is.
Um but uh what would be one ofthe the biggest takeaways for
you this year from ATTA inChile, from either the main
stage sessions or some of the umthe panels, or like what um is

(04:22:32):
there anything that stood out toyou this year about this event
that was particularly unique orspecial or some kind of
something you're gonna take awayfrom this?

SPEAKER_07 (04:22:40):
Uh I think it's the first time that the people uh
know where AICEN is, our region.

SPEAKER_02 (04:22:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:22:47):
And now they understand all the obviously
difficulties that we have, butthat this is an amazing place,
really uh wild.
It's not like uh I presentsomething that is like uh an
structure.
The you have to just be open toleave it wherever it comes.

(04:23:10):
Uh yeah, I think that this isthe first time that the people
are seeing us, yeah.
Like the Philippine.

SPEAKER_16 (04:23:17):
Well, I'm convinced that many more people will
absolutely, and I hopefully theywill from this podcast and from
all the travelers that joinedus.
I'm sure everyone's gonna besaying something similar to me.
They're gonna tell all theirfriends and family that you have
to come to see the Isen region.
You have to meet Claudia andFernando, you have to travel
with Ciclo Astral, like it'sjust so special, and especially
especially for me on the for thee-bike crew, because like it's

(04:23:39):
like it opens up a whole newcategory of traveler that
wouldn't have otherwise thoughtit would be possible, um, myself
included.
So I want to make sure thatpeople can find you guys on um
Instagram.
Yes, which is C-I-C-L-O.

SPEAKER_07 (04:23:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 (04:23:54):
Yes, because I always kept putting a Y.
So just like C Yes.

SPEAKER_07 (04:23:58):
R R I A A L.

SPEAKER_16 (04:24:02):
Which is on Instagram and also your website.
Yeah, it's uh cicloostral.com.

SPEAKER_ (04:24:08):
Cicloaustralchile.com.

SPEAKER_16 (04:24:09):
Yes, cycloostralchili.com.
Important clarification.
That's also and are you guys onLinkedIn as well?
I believe so.
Yes, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 (04:24:17):
Ciclo Austral.

SPEAKER_16 (04:24:18):
Perfect.
No, I'd uh um but yeah, I can'tthank you enough for what has
been an extraordinary week.
And I wanna make the connectionnow because Shannon is just
announcing this on stage, andwe're gonna finish this podcast
together, Claudia and I talkingabout 2026, and ATTA is headed
to Quebec City, Quebec, Canada.

(04:24:40):
And so we're gonna go from youknow one end of the world to the
other.
So we're gonna go from the farsouth to the far north, yes, and
you're gonna get to experiencenot only Canada.
I know you've only ever been toa little bit of British
Columbia, um, but you're gonnaget a chance to experience
Quebec.
And I'd said to uh to Claudiaand Fernando and the rest of the
crew, if it works out, because Ihad a pretty good idea that

(04:25:02):
likely that was gonna be thecase, but obviously Shannon
announced it on this podcast,and he's now just announcing it
on stage to everyone else, so wecan now share it with everybody.
Um, but I said you guys need tocome across to Toronto and then
we'll we'll cycle to QuebecCity.

SPEAKER_07 (04:25:16):
I'm excited.

SPEAKER_16 (04:25:17):
Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm I'm so I'm so incredibly
excited for you guys to seeCanada, and I think there's such
a compliment between our twocountries, like Chile and
Canada.
Obviously, you're gonna see umFrench Canada, so like that's
unique in itself, going fromSpanish, not just to English,
but to French.
Uh, French.
You have to learn a little bit.
You definitely do, exactly.

(04:25:37):
But I have to learn a bit ofSpanish, you gotta learn some
French.
Yes.
No, it'll be much easier foryou, I'm sure.
Um, but it's such a beautifulpart of the world, and obviously
there's great cycling there.
It's beautiful geographically,linguistically, historically.
It has so much to offer.
And Shannon was mentioning, Ididn't realize this, but it's
gonna be the first time thatit's been to a destination three
times.

(04:25:57):
I didn't realize it had alreadybeen the obviously, you know,
this is the second time inChile, yeah, but it is gonna be
the third time in Quebec.
Not always Quebec City.
It's been at um, but this is thefirst time uh three, three times
it's been in one region inQuebec City.
So yeah, you're gonna get tocome to Canada again and see it
properly.
So I cannot wait for us to hostyou in Canada next year.

SPEAKER_07 (04:26:20):
Yeah, I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_16 (04:26:21):
Oh, that's awesome.
And I wish you guys all the bestin the next year, and I look
forward to keeping in touch.
I think we've all got newfoundfriends, and I look forward to
our WhatsApp group and all ofour Instagram activity keeping
us all connected.
But uh yeah, I think everyone onour trip clearly adores you,
Claudia, and thinks the world ofyou and uh Fernando and and this

(04:26:41):
the incredible experience wehad.
So thank you again, and I lookforward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_07 (04:26:45):
No, thanks to you, and yeah, I I love our group
also.
It's so nice.
The people are really like umlike take care in uh from each
other.

SPEAKER_16 (04:26:55):
So it's every once in a while that magic happens
because you had highlighted tous this doesn't always happen,
but every once in a while, andthis is the beauty of group
travel, is that it's acomplement of people that come
together with a you know with ashared interest and experience,
and all of a sudden, you know,that's um um you yeah, you find
new friends, you find yourtribe, and it's like uh so

(04:27:15):
anyway, but you know, I wish youevery success in the year ahead,
and I look forward to manypeople finding out more about
you.
So definitely check out the wetuh cycloastral chili.com, check
out the social channels, findthem on LinkedIn, and reach out
to them for partnershipopportunities and to book your
next trip.
So yes, thank you again.
Muchos gracias.

SPEAKER_07 (04:27:34):
A ti.

SPEAKER_16 (04:27:36):
Thanks so much for joining us on this special event
spotlight of Travel Trends,which was all recorded live at
the Adventure Travel WorldSummit in Puerto Natales, Chile,
in October of 2025.
Thanks again to the AdventureTravel and Trade Association
team for inviting us in andmaking us your official podcast
partner.
Special thanks to Shannon, ofcourse, and our ongoing

(04:27:57):
friendship and collaborations.
We will have more episodes ofour Adventure Travel series with
Shannon and I together, comingout over the course of 2026.
And if you want to learn moreabout ATTA or become a member,
definitely check outadventuretravel.biz.
And don't forget to join usSeptember of 2026 in Quebec City
for next year's ATWS.

(04:28:18):
And if you want to find out moreabout travel trends and our
other spotlight episodes, besure to check out traveltrends
podcast.com/slash spotlights.
You can subscribe on yourstreaming platform of choice to
be notified when new episodes golive.
And we also provide updates onour social channels, which are
YouTube, Instagram, andLinkedIn.
And if you want to see anyvideos or photos from my

(04:28:39):
extraordinary pre summitadventure of cycling in
Patagonia, definitely check outat DC Trips.
We hope you continue to join usand stay connected.
And until next time, safetravels.

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