Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
So when you think of an airport, what the priorities
of an airport organization are,I would say number one is safety
and security.
Number two is operationalefficiency, to get people in and
out of the airport in a veryefficient manner.

(00:24):
And then number three iseverything else.
So passenger experience, riding, comfortable environment but
really the priorities aresecurity and operational
efficiency and then everythingelse comes.
Third, based on what their KPIsare.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, DanChristian, and today we have a
special event spotlight fromAviation Festival Americas.
I had the privilege to beinvited for this conference in
Miami in 2025, and also anopportunity to moderate a
session on AI's impact onairports.
One of the people that was onthat panel, Amir Amidi, who is

(01:04):
the managing director of traveltransportation at Plug and Play,
works with a lot of startupsand airports.
He was an amazing addition tothat panel and actually we're
going to kick off this specialevent spotlight with my
interview with him and we'regoing to speak to everyone, from
pilots, including one pilotthat has now created a company
that actually helps companiescreate new airlines.

(01:25):
So that was a fascinatingconversation, as well as the
head of HR and recruiting fromAvion Express, a company based
in Lithuania that operates about50 planes and crews to actually
help airlines out when theyneed a partner to be able to
operate a specific route forthem.
My son, as you'll hear, I'vementioned him a few times in
these interviews because he'soff to university in September

(01:46):
and he's headed off to become apilot, and so it was very
reassuring for me to hear atthis conference that there is a
very bright future ahead for him, given how many airlines are
buying new aircraft and arelooking for pilots.
So I was excited to relay thatto him.
But you'll hear some of thoseconversations throughout the
podcast.
We have 11 individuals that arejoining us.

(02:07):
We also have my good friend,Tom Trotta, who is the VP at
Allianz Insurance, so we get toget into some of the specific
areas of insurance that work forairlines and airports.
He's been at many of the majortravel conferences so I've seen
him over the years.
It was nice to see Tom again.
We speak to a few differentstartups Marco Gans, who's the
co-founder of no Longer Lost.
There's quite a few startups inthe luggage space which, given

(02:30):
the amount of luggage is lostevery year in airlines, makes
total sense.
We also speak to the co-founderof Ravel that's R-A-V-L Andy
Carnes, who is focused onbuilding out a business travel
community.
And we actually speak to a fewpeople that work within the
airports.
Yaki Ramos, who's the terminalmanager at Munich Airport in New
Jersey, was a reallyfascinating conversation.

(02:52):
We spoke to differentrecruiters, like RPAD, who works
for Partner Aviation based inLondon.
We also spoke to softwaredevelopers like Alex, so it was
really fascinating to have thisconversation with all the people
that work in the airline andthe airport space, but I also
wanted to highlight that theconference itself really is
going from strength to strengthcenter, where they explore new

(03:13):
strategies, cutting edgetechnologies and, of course,
build valuable commercialpartnerships.
They had more than 200 speakers,including many C-level
executives, and work withairlines like Delta and American

(03:33):
United JetBlue.
So I definitely encourage anyof you that are interested in
this space.
My good friend who runs Sherpa,Max Tremaine, has been involved
with this event because theyactually have a major conference
in Lisbon in October and thenthey are in Singapore in early
March next year and then back inMiami again next May 2026.

(03:57):
We have kindly been invitedback for 2026.
So be sure to join us there.
If you're looking for moreinformation as you're listening
to these interviews, be sure tocheck out
worldaviationfestivalcom.
You can check out their eventsand also more information about
getting involved in theirorganization.
So thanks again to the AFA teamand everyone we had a chance to

(04:18):
meet and speak to.
I certainly left very inspiredfor the world of aviation and
we've actually decided to add anaviation track to our AI summit
in October and we are alsogoing to be doing a deep dive
theme into the world of aviationin season six of Travel Trends.
So thank you so much for allthat inspiration.
It certainly opened up a newworld to us, and I really hope

(04:39):
our listeners enjoy this seriesof conversations.
I now have the pleasure to sitdown and speak with the
gentleman that was on my panelyesterday and was an amazing
speaker.
He's also a good friend of mine.
I've known him for a number ofyears and it was one of the
reasons that I wanted to be hereat the conference.
It's Amir Amidi, who is thehead of Plug and Play, and he

(05:02):
runs the travel side of thatbusiness as well, and so he's
based in San Francisco.
He's got lots of connections inthis entire space, so I was
thrilled that he was here, andI'm particularly thrilled we
have the chance to sit down andhave this conversation.
So, Amir, welcome to TravelTrends.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Thank you, dan, pleasure to be with you.
And just to clarify yes, we aregood friends and unfortunately
I wasn't able to convince youduring the Travel Corporation
days to join us as a corporatepartner.
So shame on me for not being agood sales guy and connecting
the dots.
And just to clarify I'm thehead of travel and hospitality

(05:43):
and one of the founders of PlugPlay.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Amazing.
No, I appreciate you givingthat context and especially, as
you mentioned, when I was livingin LA and I was traveling up to
visit you, I really wanted usto be a part of that program and
so it wasn't you, it wasultimately COVID for all of us
because I think we were.
I had only moved to the US sixmonths before COVID happened and
we were having thoseconversations and trying to make

(06:06):
it happen.
But I have the greatest respectfor what you guys do and
obviously would have loved tohave been a corporate partner
and I see how many companieshave benefited from being part
of the Plug Play ecosystem.
So I'm glad you mentionedobviously you're a founder, you
are the guy.
So tell everybody.
For those that are coming toknow you for the first time and
are not familiar with Plug Play,give everyone the quick

(06:28):
overview of what Plug Play isand what you guys do.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
We started Plug Play in 2006 in Silicon Valley with a
mission to invest in the mostpromising technology companies
and to a great extent, I wouldsay we've been very lucky over
the years to have been part ofsome entrepreneurs' journeys.
We've done about 2,000investments across 20 different

(06:52):
industries, primarilybusiness-to-business software,
into our operations.
We started getting approached byFortune 500, fortune 1000
companies who wanted to actuallybuild relationships with the
startup community, but they hada tough time sorting through all

(07:12):
the noise.
So they thought, because we'reinvestors, we could do a better
job of identifying technologiesdeveloped by startups who can
actually deliver on theirpromise to Fortune 500, fortune
1000 companies.
So it actually became a very,very interesting dynamic between
us large enterprises and thestartup community.

(07:34):
So we started making theseone-off introductions to the
likes of Procter Gamble, target,tesco, kohl's, volkswagen and
PayPal and over time we realizedthis is a very unique position
for us to be in because over thelong term, it actually helps us
evolve our investment thesis,meaning, if we understand what

(07:57):
the roadmap for IT spent is forsomeone like Procter Gamble,
then we can actually do a muchbetter job of knowing what our
North Star is when it comes tomaking investments.
Got it Today we're activeacross 20 different industries,
making investments and workingwith roughly 600 corporations
across those 20 industries.

(08:17):
We have 65 offices around theglobe a good mix between Asia,
europe, middle East, africa andAmericas.
We do about 200 investments ayear.
The travel practice came intoexistence in 2016 when I came
back to Plug Play from mystartup years in the hospitality

(08:38):
world and launched the practicein Silicon Valley.
And from day one, our missionwas to make the traveler's
journey more seamless byencouraging collaboration across
stakeholders across the entiretravel value chain, so from OTAs
to travel agencies, to airlines, to airports, to hospitality

(09:02):
groups to ground transportationcompanies, encouraging
collaboration between them toshare data and provide a higher
level of service to travelersand more personalized service,
but also staying true to theplug and play mission to invest
in the most promising startupsin the travel industry.
Fast forward to today we'reworking with roughly 20 travel

(09:24):
suppliers.
On the corporate innovation side, so, the likes of Singapore
Airlines, international AirlinesGroup, all Nippon, cathay,
jetblue was a partner of oursfor about nine years and they
decided to take a differentdirection.
As you know, the JetBlueVentures arm was actually picked

(09:45):
up by an aircraft leasingcompany, but they were a great
partner of ours for nine yearsWestJet.
We worked with airports likeFrankfurt Airport.
We worked with Airport di Roma,vienna International, changi.
And then we work with othertravel suppliers so Accor Hotels

(10:07):
Flight Center out of Australia,tmcs like CWT, and essentially
our job is to become the eyesand ears for these travel
suppliers on a global scale andfind technologies that could
actually move the needle forthem in one shape or form.
Moving the needle meanstechnologies that could help
them increase revenues, lowercosts, bring operational

(10:28):
efficiency, or any technologythat could help them serve their
existing or future clientsbetter through personalization,
personalization that goes beyondthese legacy loyalty programs
that we think of at Plug Play asbribery schemes.
Nobody likes the loyaltyprogram that they're a part of,
but we're all locked into it.

(10:49):
So how can you actually buildtrue loyalty?
By personalizing your serviceand build brand loyalty through
digital channels.
That's what we're focused on.
For our travel suppliers, we'vedone about 40 investments on
the startup side since 2016.
And I'm happy to share that outof the 42 of those investments

(11:10):
have become unicorns.
So they've reached a billiondollar plus market cap, which,
considering what happened to allof us during COVID, is quite
lucky for us, and we're going tocontinue doing what we've been
doing sitting in between the, Iwould say, the corporations and
the travel industry and thestartup community and bridging

(11:33):
the gap between the two sides ofthe market.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, no, you have an impressive roster of clients,
and I think the other thing Ijust wanted to highlight too
that, as you were describingworking with corporate partners
and then startups, the one thingthat you guys provide and do so
well at is this matchmakingservice to connect these two
communities and, as you knowvery well from my previous role
heading up, you know marketingand digital innovation at a

(11:56):
large.
You know two billion dollar, 40brand company you.
One of the keys to my role andthe success that I had there was
working with startups, becauseyou don't necessarily have
access to the technical skillsand also you have so much else
on your plate at the moment theidea of partnering with a
startup that's doing somethinginnovative, and those startups
get to partner with a largercompany.

(12:17):
They get the value of having aclient, a large client, they get
the reputation, but you, as acorporate partner, you then also
have the opportunity to shapethe roadmap with that startup,
and so I love the fact that youguys have really been a trusted
partner to so many startups thathave become successful by
virtue of being a part of yourecosystem, and I can think of a

(12:39):
few examples.
Amir kindly invited me in to beone of a plug and play advisor
and I've done a number of callswith startups in your community
and I'm very committed tohelping them and finding their
way bonafideai Fantasticbusiness model and concept and
they're going to.
I think they're poised forexplosive growth in the travel
sector.
I just spoke to them the otherday.

(13:00):
So tell us a little bit moreabout some of these success
stories, because you mentionedabout the unicorns.
There's one also that one ofthe companies that was an
itinerary builder that wasbought by Flight Center.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
That's right.
U-mapped was one of theaccelerated startups as part of
our services to our corporatepartners.
They got picked up FlightCenter also.
They're one of the most activepartners we have.
They invested in a companycalled Shep through their TMC
arm that had this browserextension that would make sure

(13:31):
the people booking corporatetravel were actually compliant
to the rules and corporatepolicies, if you will.
They invested in them and thenthey eventually picked them up
actually, and Daniel is actuallythe CEO of that company.
He's part of the Flight Centerexecutive team now, which is
amazing yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
And they were based in Montreal and when I was
actually at your event I got achance to see the team because
Jason was there, two of thefounding team members were
pitching at the event and I wasso excited to see them and the
fact they were part of Plug Playand then they got acquired and
it was just like you know, justthe stars aligned and you guys
were obviously a key part ofthat for them.
So it's great to see thosesuccess stories and clearly they
continue.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
By the way, congrats on your involvement with a
company that I hadn't met before, a company called WeRoad yes,
out of Italy.
What an amazing business thefounder has built in a very,
very tough segment of the market, and I think they're going to

(14:34):
have a very, very bright futurein the coming years.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
I'm glad you mentioned that because I had
actually connected Paolo, thefounder, to Amir because he is
headed to the Valley he wasdoing meetings in New York and
meetings in San Franciscobecause they've built this
business to your point.
In the last four years they'vegone from $10 million to $100
million in sales and I'mconvinced they're going to be
the fastest travel company toget to a billion dollars in
sales.
And the reason I'm so convincedof that is they have yet to

(14:57):
launch in the major marketswhere this product is primarily
purchased, primarily purchasedand that is North America and
Australia, and so they're not inthe U S, they're not in
Australia yet.
They will be soon, uh,depending on when people are
listening to this.
But we wrote is you know it's,it is focused on community and
it's an incredibly innovativeand it's just got a great
company culture and you can justsee that that you know they're
they're going to continue to dogreat things.

(15:18):
I'm, I'm, I look forward to youmeeting Paolo and having a chat
with him, and he was obviouslysuper keen to get to know you
too, amir, and I'm glad youmentioned that because it also
just highlights the good peopleknow good people, and this is
exactly why startups listeningto this should absolutely get
involved with plug and play, andthat's why I wanted to give
some of those examples of thosesuccess stories, because

(15:41):
startups, when you're navigatingthis world of travel and trying
to figure who to partner with,I couldn't endorse or emphasize
plug and play enough.

Speaker 8 (15:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
You guys are a testament to what's possible to
build a successful business andto really allow these companies
to thrive.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
And, by the way WeRoad, they're not a portfolio
company of ours.
And, by the way we wrote,they're not a portfolio company
of ours and I would say thisstage they're at is not where we
like to invest just becausethey're much more later stage
and their valuation is muchhigher than typically where we
like to invest, but becausethey're working on something
unique that has value for ourcorporate partners.
We've rolled up our sleeve andtold the founder that we will

(16:23):
help them have a soft landing inthe US market and they're part
of the community.
So, to your point, stan, wedon't necessarily just provide
value to our portfolio companieson the startup side of the
equation.

(16:46):
We are extremely startupfriendly, whether you're a
portfolio company or not,because we Constantly have to
make our corporate partnersHappy and someone Like we wrote
may be able to do business Withsomeone like flight center, for
example.
Good example, or his Out ofjapan or jtb out of japan.
So We've made our ecosystemcompletely Risk-free to the
startup community and it'sallowed Us to get access to
stage agnostic startups acrossthe travel spectrum.

(17:11):
And once in a while, when we'dsee the collaboration taking
place between a startup that wehaven't invested in and our
corporate partners, and if thestage of the startup is right
and the opportunity is right, weinvest during the next
financing round of the startup.
Got it and in the case that wewrote, I think investment is off
the table because of theirstage, but I think we can create

(17:34):
a lot of value for them byputting them in touch with
relevant corporate partners whocould help them have a soft
landing in the US market.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's awesome, thank you, and that's why I'm kicking
off this episode between thetwo of us, because the other
thing we obviously were on stagetogether.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
And so you run great events, and obviously we're here
at one together.
Tell everyone what brought youto AFA this year.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
So shame on me, I have not been to AFA before.
I had heard from a fewacquaintances in the industry
good things about the size ofthe event.
I'm not a huge fan of bigconferences and a few of my good
friends in the industry wereattending, and Claire, the

(18:16):
conference organizer, approachedus to be part of a few of the
sessions panels of the sessionspanels and she also asked us to
promote the session across ourstartup ecosystem and the
corporate partners that we have.
In fact, one of the speakers,shikhar, who's the founder of

(18:36):
Spotnana he happened to be inMiami and I told him about it
and he ended up actuallyspeaking at three of the
sessions, which worked out greatfor Claire.
So the reason I'm here is tomeet folks like yourselves and
make some new acquaintances onthe aviation side and basically

(18:58):
see if it's a conference that wewant to be a part of going
forward.
I love the size, I love thefact that it's in Miami and I've
met some nice people likeyourself that I didn't know
before.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
So far so good.
That's awesome.
No, it's great to see you againhere and that's one of the
highlights for me coming to theconference is knowing that we're
going to be here at the sameevent together and then also on
stage and have a chance tomoderate the session yesterday
with you yourself and Maurice aswell, from Miami-Dade Airport.
Yeah, great guy, it was afantastic session.
You guys just like I justliterally said hello and then

(19:32):
they just you guys just took itaway from there.
Tell everyone, just giveeveryone a little brief overview
of what we covered inyesterday's session and what
some of the highlights were foryou of being here and part of
that session specifically.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
We covered the high-level topic was autonomous
vehicles and robotics in theairport environment, but the
conversations as it usually doeswith a good moderator kind of
took a turn of its own.
We covered a lot of topics.
So, on the topic of roboticsand autonomous vehicles, Maurice

(20:08):
covered what they're testingand what they've tested at
Miami-Dade.
We talked about the culturalimpact of these new technologies
would have for teams likeMiami-Dade International
adopting new technologies andthe fears that come with that
and how it could replace jobs orcould it replace jobs, and the

(20:28):
impact it would have on people'sfuture.
Really focusing on technologieswhich I think Maurice has done
an incredible job that have anROI, you know, testing out
things that actually will have apositive impact on the top or
bottom line, instead of justtesting the newest flashy
technology that everybody'stalking about.

(20:49):
And at the end, we also touchupon, I think, a very important
topic that needs to be talkedabout more, which is
accessibility solutions when itcomes to travel which doesn't
get enough airtime, I think, andit should, and it's an area
that Plug Play is becoming moreand more focused on as well.

(21:09):
But the topic, I think, took afew turns and one of the points
I made, at least when it comesto autonomous vehicles and
robotics and the airportenvironment, is that all these
technologies, although they havea place, they're going through
a testing phase and when itcomes to the actual ROI, at
least where we're at today, theROI is not realized.

(21:33):
I think it's good to test things, I think it's good to be part
of the, I would say,implementation phase of these
technologies.
Let's say implementation phaseof these technologies.
And I also made sort of acomparison to the shopping mall
and the retail industry, and thecase is that the number of

(21:56):
robotics that have robots thathave been deployed in the retail
industry, malls in particular,is 10x when it comes to numbers
and dollar value, versus theairport environment.
And the question was are theygoing down the right path and
the efficient path, or are theairports that have deployed
one-tenth of the robots thathave been deployed in the retail

(22:19):
industry going down the rightpath and letting the malls make
all the mistakes, test out thetechnologies and adopt the best
of the breed.
And my point was you know,perhaps the airports are
actually going about it theright way.
I don't know if they'reintentionally going about it the
right way, but I do think notbeing the first to test the
newest flashy technology isactually going to work to their

(22:41):
advantage this time around.
So those were, I would say, thehighlights for me anyway.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, one of the things I also wanted to just
call out to Amir, since we had apre-call together yourself,
maurice and I and we werediscussing what we wanted to
cover on stage.
One of the things that youspecifically called out and we
went into a bit of discussion onit yesterday was the fact that
airports, despite the fact thatit's a massive industry and
there's a lot of technology,they're actually quite behind in

(23:08):
embracing digitization.
And Maurice made the point atthe beginning that here we are
30, 40 years later and we'restill literally traveling with a
boarding pass and our passport.
As much as things have changed.
Yes, there is self-check-in andthere's baggage handling and AI
is being utilized in some ofthe things we got into, but

(23:29):
fundamentally, you highlightedthe fact that actually it's a
challenge to innovate withinairports because of regulation.
So the example you were givingabout other retail and just
showing you how much furtherahead malls are compared to
airports, which is aninteresting analogy, because
airports have become shoppingmalls all of a sudden, right?
They're?

Speaker 5 (23:47):
good ones anyway.
Yeah, that's true, exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
So just highlight that for our listeners, because
I think we have a lot ofbusiness travelers and a lot of
startups.
But just to make that point,because I think when I started
the session, I talked about thefact that digitization in
airports, that technology rightnow the market is about a $14
billion market in 2025.
It's expected to be about $27billion in 2030.

(24:13):
There's a lot of companies herethat are trying to carve a
niche for themselves in thisspace, but obviously not
everyone's aware of the factthat it is slow moving and it's
behind.
So tell everyone a bit moreabout that, to put that in
context.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
So when you think of an airport, what the priorities
of a airport organization are, Iwould say number one is safety
and security.
Number two is operationalefficiency to get people in and

(24:47):
out of the airport in a veryefficient manner and then number
three is everything else.
So passenger experience,providing a comfortable
environment for people tobasically board their flights,
do some shopping, eat somethingalthough everything is super
expensive in airports I wouldlove to find out why that is

(25:09):
someday but really thepriorities are security and
operational efficiency, and theneverything else comes third,
based on what their KPIs are.
And then what I mentioned onstage is you cannot talk about
one size fits all when it comesto airports.
So we've had a lot more successwith international airports,

(25:32):
specifically across Europe, thathave been privatized and, as
most of your listeners know,private organizations have a
much higher incentive to investin technology and become more
competitive to appease thepublic markets or their

(25:52):
shareholders, versus publicentities, which is the case in
North or I should say, usairports not necessarily North
American airports, because inCanada there's quite a bit of
privatization going on as well,because in Canada there's quite
a bit of privatization going onas well.
So the question becomes what isthe incentive for US airports
that are usually part ofcounties or cities to actually

(26:12):
care about digitaltransformation and enhancing the
passenger experience?
At the end of the day, peoplewill show up at the SFOs, the
LAXs or the MIAs to board theirflights and come back home,
regardless of how innovativethey are, because their hubs and
your choices are limited.
So I think the ownershipstructure, at least for US

(26:36):
airports, is a hindrance indigital transformation and
becoming more innovative.
Transformation and becoming moreinnovative.
Like every time Miami-Dadewants to test out a new
technology, if it's above acertain dollar threshold, they
have to go through an RFP, verytenuous, time-consuming process
which doesn't really allow themto churn new technologies out

(26:58):
and test them and implement themas quickly as a private entity
could.
So again, I think you have toput airports in their respective
geographies and look behind thescenes at what their incentive
KPIs are to become moreinnovative and digitally centric
, and the US at least.
The ownership structure doesn'tnecessarily work in the

(27:20):
airport's advantage.
Having said that, there are afew airports that have found
creative ways to test out newtechnologies.
Pittsburgh, for example, withChristina's leadership, I think,
has done an incredible job.
Cincinnati Airport, with BrianCobb's leadership has done an
incredible job.
So some people are moving theneedle, but I would say,

(27:41):
compared to internationalairports, specifically European
airports, it's incremental techadoption versus exponential.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Really interesting.
And one other thing I wanted tohighlight too, given that I
have the opportunity to speak toyou here and our listeners are
going to be intrigued to knowfrom your perspective what are
some of the big trends that arehappening in travel and
technology and where the startupspace is headed.
And one of the things I wantedto make sure that we covered
together.
Moving past, obviously thesession and the airports and
obviously aviation, a big reasonwe're here but is AI.

(28:12):
And the reason I want to talkabout AI is because we're very
much living through this dot-commoment and as I sit here having
the conversation with you andlook at the booth like over your
shoulder is everyone is talkingabout ai, but what does it mean
for loyalty?
It's like every booth has ai,and it just so reminds me
because we're of a similar ageand so we lived through the dot

(28:34):
com.
Uh, so it was that rush to put adot com on everything, and
there's a rush to put ai oneverything, and I know you have
some strong views on this topic.
I know where we have our aisummit happening later this year
, which is all about how AI istransforming travel.
There's many great examples ofthat.
But you have a slightlycontrarian view, if I can say it
like that, about AI, becauseyou see a lot of companies that

(28:55):
are coming in and pitching youand saying we're an AI travel
business, so give us youroverview on AI and travel and
where we're at at the momentoverview on AI and travel and
where we're at at the moment.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
So there's no doubt that we're going through a
platform shift that will impacthow we live our lives, both
personally and professionally,by having access to agentic
solutions that can take care ofvery minuscule tasks that we
hate doing every day and verycomplex tasks that we're not

(29:34):
capable of doing ourselves.
And all these solutions aregoing to become available both
at the corporate level andpersonal level, in the coming
months and years, and some havealready become available.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
A great example in the travel industry is chatbots
when it comes to customerservice.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
they've become extremely efficient in answering
repetitive and, I would say,non-complex questions on behalf
of airline customers, hotelcustomers, with 95% 97% accuracy
.
Having said that, for usbecause, as you said, I have

(30:15):
lived through the dot-com daysand we saw that bubble grow very
rapidly and burst overnight.
Mind you, some of the dot-comcompanies have basically
remained relevant and havescaled and are doing quite well,
but they are one out of amillion.
So there is definitely aparallel when it comes to

(30:38):
looking at investmentopportunities today, not just in
travel but across every singleindustry, and when a startup
comes and says they have a GenAI affiliated solution and
they're not Gen AI native,they're not solving your problem
by building sort of on top of alarge language model and going

(31:03):
at it from that angle on day one.
But they had a solution and nowthey're saying we're adding
some Gen AI angle to it.
99% of the solutions we see fromthat angle are it's hot air,
right, but the ones that reallystarted their company with large
language models in mind naturallanguage processing, machine

(31:26):
learning and going after realB2B problems are the ones that
we're looking at and investingin and they happen to be the
minority solutions we comeacross today, not the majority
in terms of numbers.
So I think you have to takeeverything with a grain of salt,
knowing that this platformshift is going to change how

(31:50):
business is done, how we run ourpersonal lives.
But don't get caught up in thenoise and there's still plenty
of time to make investments andhopefully right the Gen AI wave
in the coming years.
And you know we're definitelynot rushing into it today.

(32:10):
We're watching closely, we'vemade some bets and we'll
continue to make more bets, butwe're being cautious about who
we're backing and why we'rebacking them.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, well, I'm sure you just get so many pitches
that start with, we're anAI-first business now, and this
is the opportunity I know youwent.
Also, amir mentioned to me thatmost of the startups that you
also see have an AI slide, soobviously AI is a hot topic and
will continue to be for manyreasons, and, as you highlighted
it, ai first business are goingto get so far ahead of other
companies, and there will beAmazons amongst that, but

(32:50):
there's going to be web vans aswell.
So that's why I was keen to getyour take on that, because you
really sit at the forefront ofinnovation, and so when someone
like you is being suspect around, you know investing in AI or
just being very careful.
I think obviously it's a wisestrategy, but nevertheless, you
guys are active in this space.
The other thing I want to talkabout, too, is that, when we
look at big developments withinthe travel industry, we're here

(33:13):
at an aviation festival, ofcourse, and so that is an
industry that's continued to beripe for innovation.
Knowing you work with airportsand airlines, what are some of
the other big focus areas foryou that you guys are at Plug
and Play, looking to invest inor seeing companies that are
really scaling.
What stands out to you as kindof the big trends in travel?

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah.
So let me combine that withwhat we see happening as far as
generative AI solutions areconcerned.
So we tend to focus onbusiness-to-business software
solutions and, when it comes toimplementation of Gen AI native
solutions, anything that's moreback office oriented, meaning

(33:57):
how can you make a corporationmore efficient in their back
office?
An example I gave during oursession was accounting that is
ripe for implementation of, Iwould say, gen AI agents that
could actually run throughnumber crunching and reporting

(34:17):
and not needing 15, 20 people todo that, and compliance legal
services contracting andcompliance legal services
contracting.
These back office solutionsthat I think Gen AI today can
actually tackle, and veryefficiently, are areas we're
very much focused on.
I would say there are certainsparks on the customer-facing

(34:40):
side.
We talked about chatbots andcustomer service, but they are
in their infancy and most Gen AIsolutions today, dan, they tend
to be more of a cost saving andoperational efficiency measures
in the context of corporations.
What I'm truly excited about iswhen these Gen AI solutions

(35:02):
become revenue generatingsolutions on behalf of
corporations.
So think of anything that has todo with marketing spends on
behalf of airlines.
Right now, it's more of a sprayand pray approach, you know.
Let's just throw dollars insearch engines and hope that,
you know, there'll be somewhatof a conversion rate in people

(35:24):
clicking on our ads and comingto our website and booking
something.
There's really no ROI on themarketing spent when it comes to
airlines and it's very hard tomeasure.
So we actually backed a companycalled Zitlin out of
Switzerland, and what they'vedone is actually tie a Gen AI

(35:45):
solution to the marketingcampaigns of airlines, with a
direct impact on knowing exactlywhat the ROI of that dollar
spent is, while reaching theright audience by utilizing data
sources that have never beenutilized before when it comes to
marketing departments ofairlines, and the results have

(36:06):
been incredible.
So if I had to generalize backoffice solutions that could
replace teams of 20, 30, 40, 50people down to, let's say, four
or five people with 99% accuracy, those are things we're very
much focused on at the B2B sidewhen it comes to Gen AI, slowly

(36:27):
we're looking at more frontoffice solutions that actually
are focused more on revenuegeneration than operational
efficiency, and I think you'regoing to see more and more of
those solutions coming online inthe coming years.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, it's exciting and this is where I always
follow what you guys are doing,because you are certainly
someone that's in the know.
But also, when you're workingwith corporate and you're
working with startups, you canreally see the trends that are
shifting and what's going tohappen in the next.
You know two to three years ofour business and industry
because a lot of those largerplayers they're they're very
much planning for the long termand the startups you know they.

(37:08):
It's one of the challenges forstartups to work with larger
companies is are they funded,Are they going to be around and,
like you, want that trust andconfidence and so being part of
your network ensures thatsuccess and gives them the
support that they need, mostimportantly, in some of the
areas that they don't have.
So I'm a huge advocate for aplug and play.
I still wish we had theopportunity to do that corporate
program, but I'm thrilled to bean advisor.
Obviously, it's great to be yourfriend and know you, Amir, and

(37:28):
have the time Same here.
Yeah, have the time on thesession yesterday on the panel.
But, yeah, I just want to saythank you so much for making the
time for this.
I want to make sure all of ourlisteners can connect with you.
You kindly gave your email, yes, so obviously they can send you
an email.
They can check out, plug andplay, any other ways that we
should make sure that peopleknow to connect with you guys.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
I think a great way is yourself.
So, uh, dan is a close friend ofour travel practice and, uh,
anything you guys need from plugand play, he's a great conduit,
although I don't want tobombard him with requests.
But, uh, again, my email is Amirat PMPc plug and play tech
center acronymcom, and I wouldlove to hear from you guys.

(38:07):
Just one more point, dan youdid mention that the travel
industry, or the airportindustry, tends to be a little
bit of a lagger when it comes totech adoption.
I think what our airportpartners at Plug and Play at
least appreciate is the factthat we're active across 20
different industries so brandand retail, then e-commerce,
fintech, mobility, energy so,although they find a lot of

(38:34):
value in the travel technologiesthat we bring to their
attention, they find equal valuein what the leaders in other
industries are adopting andbringing that home and then
applying those technologiesinside airports or airlines or
hospitality groups.
So having this visibility intowhat's happening across other

(38:54):
industries, I would say isactually just as valuable as
understanding what's happeningglobally in the travel industry,
and that's what our environmentprovides to our corporate
partners.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
That's fantastic.
Well, I know you guys keepgoing from strength to strength,
so I know I'm going to wish youevery success.
You don't need that from me,but it's happening anyway and I
certainly look forward tokeeping in touch and seeing you
at the next summit you guys arehosting.
I'm looking forward to visitingyou again in San Francisco and
just keeping in touch with you,amir.
So definitely also check outAmir on LinkedIn as well,

(39:26):
because he posts fairly activelyand you'll see some of the
updates there and I know that'sone of the ways that many of us
are all connected.
So definitely connect with Amiron LinkedIn and thanks again
for joining us.
Really looking forward tokeeping in touch.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
I now have the pleasure to introduce you to an
old friend, someone I've knownin the industry for many years.
As soon as I think of Allianzlet's say it like the French do
Tom Trotta comes to mind.
He is the vice president ofsales in North America and
clearly has an interest in theaviation space.
But this guy's at every bigtravel conference.

(40:01):
So it's great to see you again,tom, and welcome to Travel
Trends.
Great to see you again, tom,and welcome to Travel Trends.

Speaker 10 (40:05):
Great to see you again, dan, awesome.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
So tell everyone where you're based and, for the
few people that don't know,allianz, tell everyone a bit
more about what you guys do.

Speaker 10 (40:12):
Sure.
So I currently live in Richmond, virginia, where our US
headquarters is for travel andevent insurance.
We report up to a big office inParis and then the ultimate
mothership company is in Munich,germany.
So Allianz handles all kinds ofinsurance, but we specialize in
travel insurance and eventticket insurance.

(40:33):
So you think American Airlines,marriott, hotels, ticketmaster
we're there at the end of thefunnel and that's a big part of
our electronic and onlinepresence.
But we also handle many travelagencies, tens of thousands of
travel agencies, every AAA clubacross America, and also cruise
lines.
I'm about to ink our 10thcruise line.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Oh congrats.

Speaker 10 (40:57):
So yeah, hopefully that's coming through in a
docusign soon.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
That's awesome.

Speaker 10 (41:01):
But, yeah, we take care of customers all around the
world.
We tap into other divisions ofAllianz care of customers all
around the world.
We tap into other divisions ofAllianz that provide health
insurance around the world.
So we piggyback on theircontracts and we have direct
billing into hospitals allaround the world.
So our customer assistanceteams which is all in-house, we
don't outsource that can takecare of you and then, if you're

(41:23):
in a hospital, have a claimsituation, we can actually
direct pay the hotel.
So you don't outsource that cantake care of you and then, if
you're in a hospital, have aclaim situation, we can actually
direct pay the hotel.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
So you don't even have to go out of pocket and
then come back to us for claimsInteresting and this is the
first time that Tom's been onTravel Trends and those number
of questions.
I'm keen to ask you tounderstand the business and the
model and how you approach beinghere in an event like this,
because usually we'd see eachother at Focusrite.
I know you guys are very activeat Focusrite, for all the right
reasons.
It's a fantastic industryconference and so we get to

(41:48):
catch up there, but this is ourfirst time at AFA.
Tell us a little bit more ofwhat brought you to this event.

Speaker 10 (41:54):
Sure.
So you know, we partner with 30airlines around the world.
In the US, some of the biggestones American Delta, jetblue,
alaska, hawaiian Legion so a lotof our partners are here.
Went out to dinner last nightwith a few partners, but of
course there's other prospectsthat are here.
So I used to chase you down atconferences.
I'm here to, but also to listenand to learn right from the

(42:18):
experts within the industry keepup with trends and then figure
out.
what do we have to do to pivoteither on a technology front or
coverages and assistance?
How can we help airlinepartners and other partners stay
ahead of the game and helptheir customers while they're
traveling?

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Got it Okay.
It makes total sense for you tobe here, certainly for all the
partnerships and networking.
You mentioned about stayingatop of the trends, and that's
obviously the big theme of ourshow, and I'm genuinely
interested to know whathighlights you've had from the
conference so far.
I mean, we're sitting here, um,kind of the middle part of day
two.
Um, there's been a number ofreally great keynote sessions
and and then panels anddifferent breakouts.

(42:55):
What has been some of theinteresting insights that you've
learned here at the conference?

Speaker 10 (42:59):
yeah, well, listening to how people are
utilizing ai for things younever think of sure ground
handling all kinds of things.
And then talking to them andtell them how we're utilizing AI
, and the biggest place for usis in claims processing.
So we are training AI on ourcoverages one by one, and then

(43:19):
the tools that we need, thebackup that we need to process a
claim, and 40% of our claimsare now being processed by AI
and we can literally pay a claimwithin six hours of receiving
the documentation we need forthe portions that we've trained
it on.
If AI tells us that a claimisn't there to be paid or

(43:43):
something's wrong with it, wesend it to a human.
We do not let AI deny anyclaims, but it has helped our
processing, our speed, ouraccuracy and also that's one of
the pieces of new innovation wehave that I need to get out to
prospects and partners.
So some of that also goesaround proactive benefits.

(44:08):
So if you think travel delays,you're at the airport, flight's
just been delayed, you're not ahappy camper If you've purchased
our coverage and we have thisinformation from the airline,
which we are rolling out withairlines right now.
We're tracking any flightchanges rolling out with
airlines right now.
We're tracking any flightchanges.
And also then, when we knowthere's a, say, a two hour delay

(44:28):
.
If we have $150 of coverage,we'll just send you $75 and ask
you how you would like it rightthen and there.
So we're not gonna make youhappy but we're gonna make you a
little less unhappy and, andyou know, make the, you know buy
your lunch, beverages, whateveryou want at the airport and
then say it turns into anovernight delay.
We've already opened the claimfor you so you can claim that

(44:49):
other half if you have a hotelbill or something else that you
know you've incurred during thatdelay.
So again, we're trying to usetechnology information that's
available with our partners andget it relief to customers as
fast as possible.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Now, the travel insurance industry is massive.
Right, there's a number of bigplayers you guys are one of the
biggest in this space and travelagencies rely on selling travel
insurance as well because thecommissions they can generate
from that.
But ultimately it's in the bestinterest of the consumer to
have travel insurance.
And Tom was teasing us becauseour flight was delayed.

(45:26):
He's like, oh, you should havebought travel insurance for that
.
And the reason I'm asking thisquestion is because there's a
number of companies that haveall of a sudden gotten into the
space, like Protect Group is anexample, who yeah, okay, just
joking, but they're not aninsurance company.
But they're not an insurancecompany.
They exist in this world of youknow, cancel for any reason,

(45:46):
this new kind of wave of fintechthat's occurring.
So I'm going somewhere withthis question, which is when you
start to see those players comeinto the marketplace and
obviously the traditional travel, the traditional insurance
companies are recognizingthere's a consumer demand for
those types of products.
Hence why you said about buyinginsurance for flight delays or

(46:09):
interruptions, that kind ofthing.
What I'm getting to is like,what are some of the innovations
that you guys have beenfocusing on in travel insurance
that might be interesting forour listeners to understand how
your business continues toevolve to meet customer needs.

Speaker 10 (46:22):
Okay, so I'll talk about us.
I will not talk about others.
So, first of all, we areregulated by every country where
we operate and in the US wehave to file insurance in all 50
states and the District ofColumbia, etc.
And if there are any complaints, you know we handle them.
Separate from that, though, wewere one of the original

(46:44):
fintechs because we integratedthe first APIs with an airline,
the first with a major hotelchain, the first with a
ticketing company.
So we're marrying up our truepolicies, our true coverage.
We answer the phones Some peopledon't even have a telephone
number and we're building thatend-to-end.

(47:04):
And we survey our customersevery week, after every point of
sale so online, offline phones,claims, etc.
And we're finding out where didwe meet your expectations,
where did we exceed it and wheredo we fall short and where do
we have to fix things.
So we don't need competitors topush us.
Honestly, we're our own worstcritics and we've got people

(47:29):
across the company that are justfocused on this.
And then what's the outcome ofthat?
Do we need to build a newproduct, have a new filing,
improve our technology?
One example I'll give you is wewere the first insurance
company, travel insurancecompany to have an online claims
portal and thank God we had itwhen COVID hit.
Sure To handle the volumes, etcetera.

(47:50):
But we found some pain pointsright.
We found some places we couldbe more efficient.
And the other thing is peoplewant to know what the status of
their claim is, Where's mypayment Right.
So we built it initially justone way in.
Now we re-engineered it sowe're sending information out
and having it available topeople that have claims with us
so that they know their statusand how fast they're going to

(48:12):
get paid.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Got it.

Speaker 10 (48:13):
So we're trying to innovate really just for us and
our partners to increase thelevel of expertise and customer
service that they expect from us.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Got it.
No, it's really interesting andI clarified a number of points
there which I appreciate yousharing, because we've not done
anything specific on travelinsurance, and this is where you
know, having someone likeyourself with the depth of
experience to really kind ofdemystify travel insurance.
The other thing you mentionedthat I just wanted to call out
too is the different verticals.
So we're here for aviation.

(48:43):
You mentioned, like your 10thcruise partner.
What are kind of the bigverticals for you?
How big is aviation?
As an example, how do thedifferent sectors stack up for
Allianz?

Speaker 10 (48:55):
Yeah, so I can't divulge some of that, this
non-public information.
But aviation is huge justbecause of the volumes of our
partners.
On the cruise line side we'resmaller because we at this point
mainly have the boutique andluxury and Ritz-Carlton's as a
Mars of the world.
So we're a little smaller there, but still very important.

(49:16):
And the other piece is on thetravel agent side.
I mean AAA across all theirclubs is a huge piece of travel
agency business.
They, across all their clubs isa huge piece of travel agency
business.
We're preferred with all theconsortia.
We have tens of thousands ofsmall travel agents, independent
contractors, advisors, and wetreat every one of them with the

(49:36):
best technology.
So we don't have an API withtravel advisors on the smaller
end, but we have a tool for themthat they can use on their
phones nowadays.
So it's really impressive.
We have tools for consumers.
We have a small B2C businesswhich lets us kind of experiment
and test and we sell a lot ofannual plans in that space as

(50:00):
well.
So that's a trend that's up andcoming.
You mentioned CIFAR cancel forany reason.
Ours is called trend.
That's up and coming.
You mentioned CIFAR canceled forany reason.
Ours is called canceled forunforeseen reasons, because we
have a few things that weexclude.
We used to exclude pandemics.
We no longer exclude pandemics,but we do exclude nuclear war,
for instance, which obviously isgoing to ruin more than just

(50:21):
your travel plans.
So we have that available.
But we want to sell the rightproduct in the right segment to
the right customers at the righttime, and so we have 300 US
products on the shelf that areavailable.
We have filings.
We can build new products offof.
Every month we are putting newproducts in the marketplace that
our customers and our partnersare asking us for or think they

(50:45):
may want to have.
And then again we do our survey, we do our homework, we come up
with new products and hopefullystay ahead of the curve and
stay very large Hotels verysmall now, mainly because people
think of travel insurancemainly for cancellations,
airlines and such, and hotelsare a little more liberal.

(51:06):
But you know it's a growingpiece of our business.
We have Choice Hotels and theirbrands on the lower end and you
know medium scale, and thenwe've got Marriott, which goes
all the way up to Ritz-Carlton's.
But we're in the Bonvoy app, wework on homes and villas, so
we're trying to get into all ofthe niches.
And then rental car space isbig, mainly through OTAs, white

(51:28):
labels with car trawler and thelike.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
The one thing I want to make sure, though, is that
people can connect with you, tom, and know where to reach out to
, because Allianz is such a bigcompany, and obviously I've met
like about 10 of your colleaguesand you've kindly helped me
understand how everyone fitstogether in the organization.
But for all of the B2Blisteners out there that are
interested in either followingup with you directly, tom I know

(51:52):
you're at all the big eventsand active on LinkedIn but tell
everyone how they can connectwith you and then what the best
point of contact is for Allianz,for any of the travel industry
partners that are listening tothis and in need of travel
insurance solutions the travelindustry partners that are
listening to this and in need oftravel insurance solutions.

Speaker 10 (52:10):
So tomtrotta T-R-O-T-T-A at Allianz
A-L-L-I-A-N-Z.
Com, also on our website,allianz Partners.
Linkedin is great.
If you look us up AllianzPartners of America, you can see
a lot of our recent posts andnew partners Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Well, it's great to catch up with you here.
It's wonderful to see you again, tom.
You continue to go fromstrength to strength.
It's great to see you havingsuch continued success in the
industry, and I certainly wishyou all the best in the year
ahead.

Speaker 10 (52:32):
Thank you, great to see you and good luck with
Travel Trains.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Marco from
the Netherlands, who runs noLonger Lost.
I Marco from the Netherlands,who runs no Longer Lost.
I was chatting with himyesterday and I was keen for him
to sit down and record with ustoday, because he has a really
interesting startup and I wantedhim to join us to be able to
share his story.
So, marco, welcome to TravelTrends.

Speaker 7 (52:53):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Great to have you here.
Tell us what brings you to AFA.

Speaker 7 (52:59):
We'd like to bring no Longer Lost that has become
quite popular in Europe to theUnited States.
Cool, and this seemed like theperfect opportunity to do that.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
For sure, yeah, exactly.
Well, here we are having thisconversation, so hopefully we
can make more people aware of noLonger Lost.
So let's tell everyone aboutthe business concept, where it
came from and what it is youguys do.

Speaker 7 (53:19):
Sure.
We've based our solution on aunique QR code with which you
can tag anything.
That means suitcases, obviously, keys, but also pets, children
with smart bracelets, etc.
The concept is quite easy toexplain.
It is the easiest methodpossible for the finder of

(53:43):
something that got lost to beable to return it to the
rightful owner.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
So marco, yesterday actually gave me one of the no
longer lost tags, uh, for me toput on my luggage.
So tell me.
I haven't set it up yet.
I will um tell everyone how itworks.

Speaker 7 (53:58):
So um the gadget.
You get the hardware supportingthe service's, say the luggage
label in your case.
You scan the QR code by meansof the camera of your phone and
you register in 30 seconds.
That's all there is to it, if Ifind it, the finder scans the
code and is directly,anonymously, in touch with you.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Got it, and is there some reward for the finder?

Speaker 7 (54:24):
We've thought about that at the beginning of the
concept.
So good question.
But we decided not to do thatbecause we are hands off in the
process in between.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
So it's done over, uh , let's say the idea of our
website in kind of whatsapp kindof functionality, but it's
something where we have no touchright, yeah, and I mean,
obviously that is the uh, thespirit of being a good Samaritan
Someone actually takes theinitiative to identify lost
luggage and reach out to theowner.
And whenever I've been in thatsituation and when someone you

(54:57):
want to give them some sort oftip, and most often they're just
like no, no, no, no, like I wasdoing this because it's like
good karma and just like payingit forward exactly, exactly.

Speaker 7 (55:03):
It's up to the um, to the rightful owner when getting
their stuff back, to dosomething like that or not yeah,
exactly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
And so how long have you guys had this?

Speaker 7 (55:11):
business.
We've been around since 2016.
It used to be called item lost,but they had a negative twang
to it.
We're no longer lost has apositive twang, so we decided to
rebrand.
Yeah, a few years back, um 95of the business is business to
business.
So we have a website no longerlostcom in which the consumers

(55:34):
can buy their stuff from us.
But we white label for othercompanies like american express,
jet, blue airways, etc.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Got it the other thing I just wanted to call out
for our listeners too, for thoseother companies like American
Express, jetblue Airways, etcetera, got it.
The other thing I just wantedto call out for our listeners
too, for those of you who are onthe website, the one thing that
really stood out to me.
So you have luggage lost, itemlost, and then you also have
person lost and pet lost.
Exactly, and I'm a huge doglover so I need to get this for
my pet because I like terrifiedthe idea that anything will
happen to her or she'lldisappear.
But tell us about those twoother concepts.

(56:04):
Obviously same idea, sametechnology, same.
But yeah, how does person lostand pet lost work?

Speaker 7 (56:10):
Exactly so.
In the case of pet lost, wespoke to so many people that say
, yeah, when my dog wentstraying off or my cat got lost,
I never had a chance to reallysomebody could find him and they
would have been chipped even.
But the chip can only be readby a veterinarian, no one else.

(56:32):
So if I find your dog walkingalong the highway, I just scan
the dog tag and I'm in direct,anonymous touch with you, like
with a suitcase label orwhatever Cool.
In the case of kids, it's smartbracelets that they can use
anywhere from amusement parks tothe beach, to whatever you want

(56:54):
to mention.
It works the same way.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Cool.
Yeah, I see there's like aslap-on wristband, so easy.
I figured that must be for thelittle ones.
Yeah, yeah easy.

Speaker 7 (57:06):
I figured that must be for the little ones.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the thingthere is that, um, also the
phone number of the uh parent orguardian is being shared so
that you can get out of as afinder of the child.
You can be in touch directly,got it okay cool, that's awesome
.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
And then you mentioned about b2b and that
focus.
Clearly, that's a greatopportunity for you to be here
at this event with you guysfocusing on uh b2b partnerships.
Is it travel agencies like what?
Where do you see the growth foruh, for you guys on b2b?

Speaker 7 (57:31):
the good thing with this solution is that it almost
caters to any industry around.
So our main targets areobviously travel and leisure,
but also automotive.
Imagine you you get your newcar, you get two expensive car
keys.
We tag those car keys as well,make a nice little tag for the,

(57:54):
the car dealership, with thename of the car dealership on it
, obviously.
And the good thing about it isthat it is marketing that sticks
, because if you know that ithas a four to six as high chance
that it will get back to you,you'll definitely leave it on
the key, whereas normally, ifyou don't have that service,
many people would take it offbecause they would find it ugly

(58:17):
or too heavy, too light, tooblack.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
You know, whatever you want to call it totally,
yeah, exactly, but, and so yourbusiness growth plans obviously
b, b2b and B2C, but you, havinglike in our podcast, our
listeners are mainly B2B, butfor those people who are
travelers just interested inhaving them, most of the B2B
listeners are avid travelersthemselves, of course, so they
could come to you guys directly.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe pricing Cause I.

(58:48):
Tell us a little bit about thepricing, because one of the
things that stood out to me wasthere's free shipping on orders
over £35, but that's obviouslyfor buying the tags themselves.
But yeah, tell us a little bitabout the B2C model and how it
works for people that want tojust sign up and register.

Speaker 7 (58:59):
Sure, can very easily go to nolongerlostcom where
they can order any of the typeof tags that we have in store
and we can send them across theworld no problem whatsoever.
Many of the consumers thatorder are or have been initially
given a tag of no Longer Lostby one of the businesses.

(59:22):
So, as I was saying, automotive, travel, leisure, but also
insurance companies make aviduse of our service.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
anything that gets back doesn't have to be paid out
by the insurance company got itinteresting, okay, cool, that's
great, and then from here,obviously, we're in miami.
Home is the netherlands for you, what does the rest of 2025
look like for you?
Where are you headed after this?
What is, uh, what are, what areyour plans for continuing to
grow this business?

Speaker 7 (59:49):
so we'll be at the World Aviation Festival in
Lisbon, uh, portugal, in October.
Yeah, uh, we're looking into acouple of other events
throughout the year.
We've already done a coupleMadrid, berlin, madrid Berlin,
amsterdam and it is reallytaking a hold, taking a bigger
market share of the industriesthat I just mentioned, but also

(01:00:12):
other industries and the biggerplayers there, that's exciting
and for you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I know there's a number of people that operate
within the lost luggage space or, specifically, companies that
are here that help with whenyou've had flight delays, like
air help and somebody's like,yeah, in your competitive set,
who else do you see in thisspace and how do you see the
space growing?
There's there's so much,there's so much of this industry

(01:00:42):
that's ripe for innovation, andthis is a space that I think
this like is quite exciting.
So, yeah, I was curious to knowwho else is out there and and
what your plans are to uh, todominate the space good question
, very good question.

Speaker 7 (01:00:53):
Um, obviously you have apple with the air tag
right yeah, it's gps based.
It has a battery that you needto reload once in a while, um,
but apple is a totally differentkind of animal in that sense
the data of the users is forthem.
In our case it is for thebusiness we do business with.

(01:01:13):
When opted in, they can use itfor marketing purposes, etc.
Because I don't think Imentioned it before but the real
three USPs or the four USPs ofno Longer Lost are.
It's marketing that sticks.
I mentioned that.
It's customer satisfaction.
The customer gets somethingthey really need and maybe even
didn't even know existed.
And it's data for the business.

(01:01:36):
They can use the emailaddresses, et cetera.
Next to that, for example, thebiggest bicycle retailer in the
Netherlands Gazelle, it's calledused it for their bike keys and
for them it's the excellentopportunity to surpass the
retail channel 700 retailersthey have in the Netherlands and

(01:01:56):
being able to identify that endconsumer at the end that
literally buys the bike at theend.
That literally buys the bikeRight.
So in that sense I think wehave a model that stands out
quite well from the crowd and iscompletely different than what
Apple has with their AirTag.
It doesn't bite.
The two go very well together.

(01:02:17):
One is inside in the suitcase.
If your suitcase has been stuckas being lost with 7,000 others
, you know because of the airtake where it is, but you won't
be able to get it back with ourluggage label at the outside, at
the exterior of the suitcase.
We've had many examples ofluggage handling companies that

(01:02:41):
have been able to give it backto the end.
Consumer rightful owner in thatway.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
That's cool.
I want to make sure.
I know we've mentioned thewebsite nolongerlosscom, but
clearly you are on LinkedIn.
What are the ways that peoplecan connect with you and reach
out for more details?

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):
Yeah, so go to nolongerlosscom.
First and foremost, find me onLinkedIn.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Marco Gons G-O-N-S should be ample opportunity to
find me very easily fantastic.
Well, it's great to meet youhere.
I'm glad we had the opportunityto record together.
I wish you every success in theyear ahead, with no longer lost
, and, yeah, look forward tokeeping in touch with you.
Marco, thank you very much forthe opportunity.
Well, aaron, it's great to haveyou on Travel Trends.
Thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 11 (01:03:20):
Yeah, thanks, dan.
It's great being here, great toenjoy sunny southern Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
For sure.
No, it's been fantastic beingin Miami for AFA.
This is our first time, as ourlisteners have heard.
Have you been to AFA before?

Speaker 11 (01:03:32):
I have not.
Okay, so it's your first timeas well.
Yeah, I grew up in Florida, butthis is my first time this far
south.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Okay, cool, awesome, and I know you're based in
Connecticut, but we should makesure that everyone knows who you
are and what you do first.
So it's Aaron Bricker who's theCEO and principal consultant at
Skyward Aviation Insights.
He's based in Connecticut, buthis team is all over the world,
but tell all of our listenerswhat it is that you do at
Skyward Aviation.

Speaker 11 (01:03:56):
Yeah.
So, in short, headachereduction Right.
So that's number one thing, butoperational consulting for
airlines and airline adjacent,so all the vendors that support
airlines as well as the airlines.
So my whole history, decades ofaviation airline experience,
just bringing that to bear forclients and we bring the

(01:04:20):
specialty that they need.
We don't.
So flight ops, ground ops, techops, system ops, project
management, cost savings,process improvement.
It's really, and that's why Ihave to lead with headache
reduction, because if somethingkeeps you up at night, that's
what we want to fix, and youdon't know what it is until you
wake up with a cold sweat in themiddle of the night?

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Yeah, exactly, and tell us how you got into the
space.

Speaker 11 (01:04:45):
Oh my goodness.
Well, back in the day inancient times, started as an
aerospace engineer, worked as anairline engineer doing
interiors, led the interiorsdepartment, then just kind of
moved around airlines, movedfrom hub to hub doing project
management and flight ops, fuelefficiency, got my black belt

(01:05:06):
doing process improvement andthen eventually I moved to New
York to lead the projectmanagement process improvement
team for an airline.
And then, you know, thingshappened Eventually had the
opportunity to try someconsulting on my own last year,
got the help on a big merger soI won't mention the names but
was able to help and I thought,wow, I just I can do this.

(01:05:27):
I've been doing it.
Internal business developmentday I'll always remember.
And then kind of started to dothe everything reaching out and
just finished an engagement inHouston with an airline.
So it's fantastic to get outthere and meet the clients,

(01:05:47):
potential clients.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Yeah, that's great Congratulations.
I know you mentioned this isthe first time you've been to
AFA, but tell us a little bitwhat brought you here this year
and what some of the highlightshave been being a part of the
conference last couple days.

Speaker 11 (01:05:58):
Well, as a startup, their startup zone was so
beneficial I wouldn't have beenable to have come if it wasn't
for the startup and to invitesome consultants to come, some
of the team to come, so that wasjust fantastic the opportunity
for them to help me grow into abooth.
Maybe I'll be sitting next toyou next year, Dan, that would

(01:06:20):
be fantastic.
I'll get to see everybodycoming and going.
But so the experience has beengreat, because getting
opportunities to speak withfolks, find out what their
issues are, find out ways inwhich we can collaborate to
figure out, you know, to solvetheir problems, and and the the
spontaneity of it, uh, has beenfantastic.

(01:06:40):
So last night, just calling the,calling the, uh, the ride share
.
Uh, there was another attendee.
They were trying to place a pinand Google and we're like, oh,
okay, Let me.
We.
We collaborated on fixing thatproblem and we met in the
networking zone today.
So it was just like totallyrandom, never would have
connected with them and whoknows what beautiful things will

(01:07:03):
happen.
So I really love thespontaneity of it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
For sure.
Yeah, no, I've enjoyed a numberof the panel sessions.
I haven't had a chance toattend too many of them because,
obviously, the focus for us isbeing here and speaking to
interesting people like yourself, but I've certainly learned a
lot about the aviation fieldpeople like yourself, but I've
certainly learned a lot aboutthe aviation field and this is
where we're going to be doing adeep dive into this topic.
In season six of our podcastand in our AI summit, we're
going to focus on aviation, andthe reason I mentioned that is

(01:07:29):
because one of the things Iwanted to get your take on is
some of the trends that arehappening within the aviation
world.
So what are some of thespecific focus areas for you and
your business that you'reseeing more and more companies
seeking guidance on?
What are some of the big themes?
Ai, obviously, is always onebig one.
We can't avoid that topic.
But, yeah, what are some of thebig trends in your space?

Speaker 11 (01:07:50):
Well, just interacting and speaking with a
lot of these software companiesright, they're super smart,
they're super engaged I mean,they're genius right in the
software development space yeah,so many of them.
What they've shared with me ishow do they get into the airline
, how do they speak airline?
So that seems to be like how dothey translate their amazing

(01:08:12):
tool into something that can beoperationalized?
So I see that as something thatis maybe the next step of
something amazing.
And then what I'm seeing isjust disruption.
So even my consulting firm,we're disrupting a little bit.
I don't have a brick and mortarplace.
I'm a global pullingconsultants from here and there.

(01:08:34):
I don't make my consultantssign and non-compete.
So if one of our clients wantsto hire them, fantastic, please
go ahead.
So I'm hoping to disrupt thisspace a little bit, but learn
from the consultants who havecome before on the big, big
firms.
But maybe mix it up a littlebit with some experience You'll

(01:08:55):
see some gray in my goatee alittle bit, but lean into that a
little bit and find thesolutions faster.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Right, and you.
When we just started recording,Aaron had a couple of his
colleagues here, two of theconsultants that are here with
you as well, right?

Speaker 11 (01:09:08):
Yeah, fantastic.
Yeah, we had two of them here.
One doing financial work, doingproject management, process
improvement been doing that formultiple decades across airlines
and outside.
The other gentleman 45 plusyears doing ground operations,
setting up express carriers,working in the military.
I mean, you can't plant a seedand grow that type of experience

(01:09:31):
, so we bring that and you don'thave to pay for that person all
year long.
So he's a great person.
Ted's fantastic.
Michael's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
That's awesome.
Yeah, they seem like great guysand obviously you know the fact
is, three of you guys can coverthe event.
You can make sure you divide upand get all the meetings in and
attend all the sessions.
Uh, that's great.
And then what's ahead for youin the 2025, going into 2026,
clearly you're growing yourbusiness.
You're adding more consultants.
You've got some excitingprojects in the works, by the

(01:10:00):
sounds of it.
Where are you headed as anorganization?

Speaker 11 (01:10:03):
Well, just partnering with organizations
who may already haverelationships with the airlines
and aviation, seeing where wecan help them as a, basically,
voice of the customer virtualvoice of the customer, because
we've all been in aviation andairlines, we know that.
But landing and working withairlines and the non-airline and

(01:10:26):
going to their on-site so manythings are virtual.
I mean things like your podcast, awesome to be able to interact
and reach across the stars, soto speak.
But we will go and we will beon-site.
So that's the plan is to bemore with the customer and with
the frontline team to figure outwhat their problems are.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah, and it makes total sense.
Well, hopefully we'll bump intoeach other at a few more
conferences in the next year.
Focus writes one of myfavorites in November in San
Diego, oh that would be nice.
Yeah, that's a good time to bein San Diego as well.
Yeah, especially for usCanadians.
But I want to make sure thatpeople can find you on LinkedIn
and also check outskywardaviationinsightscom.

(01:11:07):
There's a button in which youcan say you're interested.

Speaker 11 (01:11:21):
You can email me at Aaron at
skywardaviationinsightscom.
You can go to the websitethere's a little link and really
send up a smoke signal.
Talk to Dan, he knows me now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
I'll put you in touch with Aaron.
I got his business card.
I got his phone number.
I'll put you in touch with him.
I got his business card.
I got his phone number.

Speaker 11 (01:11:39):
I'll just text him, Right right and really, even if
it's just a quick question, justanother set of eyes, that just
starts the networking process,anything and everything will get
things going.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
That's awesome.
It was a real pleasure meetingyou and I'm glad that we had the
chance to have this recordingtogether.
So, yeah, I definitely lookforward to keeping in touch, and
thanks again for joining us.
All right, thank you, dan, havea great day.
I now have the pleasure tospeak to Andy Carnes, who has a
fantastic Scottish accent.
As you hear in a moment Turnsout, we have a ton of things in
common.
We were chatting yesterday, soI was keen for Andy to join us

(01:12:12):
for this special episode.
So welcome, andy.
Great to have you on TravelTrends.

Speaker 9 (01:12:15):
Great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Fantastic.
Now tell everyone where you'refrom, because everyone wants to
place that accent right away.

Speaker 9 (01:12:21):
So I am originally from Glasgow, or a small town
just outside of Glasgow.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Okay, and do you still live there now?

Speaker 9 (01:12:27):
No, I live.
Funnily enough, I live in acountry estate near London.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Oh, no way yeah Okay cool.
Well, tell everyone what it isthat Ravel, the company you
started.
Tell everyone about Ravel andwhat it is you guys do.

Speaker 9 (01:12:43):
So Ravel is essentially a social network for
business travelers, so we helppeople to connect in person when
they're away from home.
So when we travel for business,we usually attend the meetings
or the conferences and then goback to the hotel room and work
into the night and that's reallybad for your mental and
physical health.
So what we do is we help peopleto get out of their
accommodation and meet otherbusiness travelers who are going

(01:13:05):
to be in the same place at thesame time, so that they can go
for dinner together or go and doexercise together or whatever
they want to do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
Yeah, it makes total sense.
I mean, I spend half of my lifetraveling and I'm at a lot of
different events and, to yourpoint, even last night actually
is a good example.
We were sitting here on day twoand there was after drinks, but
no one's quite sure what'shappening after or what's going
on.
There's private dinners,especially when you're new to a
conference, trying to figure outyour network and who's around.

(01:13:32):
There's a lot of unstructuredtime that you are not quite
clear how to fill.
So I'm 100% on board with youthat I just go back to the hotel
and work.
That's what you do.
So how did you come up withthis concept and when?

Speaker 9 (01:13:44):
So I was a management consultant for about 25 years
prior to COVID, and I spent alot of time in hotel rooms.
My clients used to send me allover the world for meetings,
workshops, conferences, and Ijust found that I was wasting a
lot of time in hotel rooms or Iwas working 16 hours a day
instead of having downtime andit had a really negative impact

(01:14:07):
on my mental and physical health.
So when Covid started, I foundmyself with a bit spare time
like a lot of and decided that Iwas going to solve this problem
of isolation during businesstravel, and Ravel is what I came
up with.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
That's cool and Ravel , just so everyone knows.
If you want to multitask whilewe're having this conversation,
it's ravelsocial is the website.
Tell us how you came up withthe name itself.
What does it mean?

Speaker 9 (01:14:37):
It was actually one of my co-founders who came up
with the name itself.
And what does it mean?
It was actually one of myco-founders who came up with the
name.
I think R-A-V-E-L.
Ravel is something Latin to dowith travel.
And then we did that coolstartup thing where you remove
the last value Make it hard foreveryone to find you.
So yeah, there's nothing coolor special about it.
It's just one of these namesthat came up randomly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
I have a marketing cool or special about it it's
just one of these names thatthat came up randomly.
No, it's actually.
Um, I have a marketingbackground and I I love great
marketing and a certain the onething you always want to be is
memorable, and after we spokeyesterday, like ravel, like I
was like that's andy from ravel,like there's, for me it is uh,
easy to associate with and thatis key to branding.
So I just um.
So, anyway, I I actually thinkit's a great brand identity.

(01:15:21):
I just wasn't sure what wasbehind it, because sometimes
there's a you know an originstory about how you had two
drinks at the bar one night andthen I should make something now
you said you've got aco-founder, so tell us where you
are on this journey.
Have you guys raised a round offunding?
Where are you on the startuptrajectory?

Speaker 9 (01:15:41):
We've been as I said, we started.
This is a COVID baby.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
So what you're three years in, four years in.

Speaker 9 (01:15:47):
Yeah, oh, nearly five actually.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Okay, you started right at the beginning of COVID.

Speaker 9 (01:15:51):
Yeah, so it was one of these things like, pretty
much during the first lockdown,three of us got together We've
known each other for years andthe three of us got together
we've we've known each other foryears um, and the the three of
us found ourselves with not muchwork to do because of covid and
we thought, you know, we shouldjust do something together.
Yeah, and I had been brewingthe idea for ravel for about 10

(01:16:12):
years before that, um, because,as I said, I spent a lot of time
alone in hotels.
Yeah, and as soon as Isuggested the idea, the other
two guys just jumped on it rightaway.
So, yeah, we've been very closeas friends and now we are close
as business partners.
It's a really, really nicesituation to be in.
We help each other out quite alot.
That's awesome.

(01:16:34):
As for funding, so yeah, weraised some preseed money, um,
just before we started todevelop the app.
So the first year we spentpretty much just talking to
people, uh, getting feedback onthe idea, to make sure it wasn't
just us that had this problemof isolation during business
travel.
Um, and even before we hadwritten a line of code, we we

(01:16:55):
wanted to validate that we weregoing in the right direction.
Um, we got a lot of really goodfeedback, some negative
feedback, which we used to makethe product better.
Then we raised some money,hired some developers, built the
app and then launched it on theApple App Store.
We don't have an Android app yetbut, that's in the works.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Well, I was on your website getting prepared for our
conversation and I was keen tounderstand the business model.
I know you have the option tosign up and become a member and
you have events.
Tell us a little bit about thecommercial model.
How would you guys generaterevenue?

Speaker 9 (01:17:30):
So it's a membership.
We have three levels ofmembership.
So the bottom level is free andwill always be free, so you can
get a lot of value from Ravelwithout spending a penny.
So if you are on a businesstrip let's say you're going to
Nashville and you just want tomeet people one to one, you
don't have to spend anything atall on Ravel.

(01:17:50):
You can put in your trip.
It will tell you who else isgoing to be there and you can
message them.
Now for the lower levels ofmembership, we restrict the
number of people you can connectwith and the number of messages
you can message them.
Now for the lower levels ofmembership, we restrict the
number of people you can connectwith and the number of messages
you can send.
For the events, we charge fortickets basically to attend the
events.
We have some free as well, butgenerally free events people

(01:18:13):
don't value them very much andthey don't turn up, and you know
so.
Even if we just charge a coupleof bucks for you know, a ticket
for the event, it helps us toguarantee that people are going
to attend, and if you have oneof the premium or premium plus
memberships, then you get a deepdiscount on all the events.
And for us, events can beanything from we've just hired
an area and a bar.

(01:18:34):
Come along and have a drinkwith us, which is what we did
here last night.

Speaker 5 (01:18:37):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
All the way up to the rum room.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 9 (01:18:41):
All the way up to.
We've chartered a yacht inMonaco Harbour and we're going
to watch.
Formula One Obviously you pay abit extra for that one.
But in between we do think wewant to give people experiences
that they might not normallyhave at home.
So, for example, we will dochef's table dinners at Gordon

(01:19:01):
Ramsay restaurants.
So you can't do that as a solotraveler, because the table
seats 10 people and you need tobuy the whole table.
So essentially, we provide theother nine people to share that
experience with Got it, andwe're trying to.
At the moment, most of theevents are in London because
that's where we're based.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
We're a very small team, but as we travel and as
the platform grows, we'll haveevents all over the world well,
when I was looking at themembership options, as you
mentioned, there's three thefree tier and the premium,
premium plus.
It's 15 pounds a month.
30 pounds a month, obviously.
As soon as I saw the pound sign, I was instantly wondering if
most of your members are basedin the uk, or is it tell us yeah

(01:19:35):
?

Speaker 9 (01:19:35):
so we've got about a thousand members at the moment.
I would say just over 50% ofthem are not only UK-based but
London-based specifically.
The rest are spread all overthe place.
Now, if you look at themembership options on the app,
it can convert to your localcurrency.
Oh well, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
It's just the website that is.
Yeah, I need to fix that.
It's okay.
Thanks for pointing out theflaw.
Well, at least our listenerscurrency.

Speaker 6 (01:19:57):
Oh well, okay, it's just a website that is I need to
fix that, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
I just thanks for pointing out well, at least our
listeners, if they're checkingon the website, they're like
okay, it's for me as well.
I just want to make sure that.

Speaker 9 (01:20:06):
Uh, you're yeah I mean, it's a completely global
platform, so you know you don'thave to be uk based to enjoy it.
Yeah, but most of the eventstoday are in the uk.
Yeah, but as we see the, wherepeople are travelling to and
where they're located, once wesee bubbles of membership, we'll
start targeting those areas forevents.

(01:20:26):
So, if you want Ravel to besuccessful, join up, that'll
help the demand.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
What have been some of the standout highlights of
being here this?

Speaker 9 (01:20:35):
year.
For me, as with any conference,the highlight is usually
something that you've notplanned for.
It's a conversation withsomeone that you might never
have had a conversation with.

Speaker 5 (01:20:46):
Yeah, well said.

Speaker 9 (01:20:47):
There's a guy over in the startup area who is working
on an AI tool for servicemanagement within the travel
industry.
So in corporate travel, if Ihave an issue, we're going to
log a ticket and he's solvingthat problem.
That's not something that Iwould have thought too much
about, but we ended up having agood chat last night and I've

(01:21:10):
made, hopefully, a really goodfriend.
So things like that when itopens up your mind to more
possibilities, or when you see apart of the industry that you
didn't know existed I think thatis the value of coming to
something like this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly, it's those random
connections you wouldn'totherwise expect to make that
can make all the difference.
It was like that.
One conversation led to abusiness opportunity that
justifies the entire cost ofbeing here and the time invested
in it.
So, as far as your plans fromhere, obviously you're headed
back home.
Tell us what's next in storefor you and the team.

Speaker 9 (01:21:46):
So immediately next we're in Miami.
It's such an amazing city, soI'm going to spend a couple of
days just taking it all in.
I've got a lot of work to do,so I'll probably be on my laptop
quite a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
From the beach.
Hopefully, I've got a lot ofwork to do, so I'll probably be
on my laptop quite a lot Fromthe beach.

Speaker 9 (01:22:00):
hopefully, I don't want to get sand in my laptop.
I'm also Scotty, so I need tobe very careful about the sun.
I'm sure you do.
So, yeah, I think, over thenext couple of weeks and months.
So getting the next version ofthe app launched and in people's
hands, telling all my friendsthat I'm going to be on a really
cool podcast and, yeah, justtrying to get the word out that

(01:22:24):
Ravel is here for people to takeadvantage of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
That's awesome.
Well, let's make sure thateveryone knows how to find you
and connect with you and theteam.
After this, I know I'vementioned the website, so
ravelsocial when else can peoplefind you and connect with the
team?

Speaker 9 (01:22:41):
so we are on, uh, the apple app store.
Um, just search for ravel, itshould be number one, if I've
done my job right um um, I thinklinkedin is probably where I
spend most of my time socially.
We do have an instagram account, we do have a tiktok account,
but given that our target marketis business travelers, linkedin
is really the place to be.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Well, I know we're connected onthere and I'm sure a number of
people will reach out as well,and I was saying to Andy so we
sat down to record together thatwe had like 327 mutual
connections and I was trying tofigure out how could that be?
How do we know so many peoplein common?
But clearly you are leveragingthe power of that network to
build your own, so credit to youfor doing that and also being a

(01:23:24):
startup entrepreneur.
It's one of the things.
It's a hard journey and clearlyyou've got 25 years of
management consulting experience, so you're well positioned to
take on this journey.
But nevertheless, there'salways these unexpected
challenges that come up andyou're trying to raise money and
build out your team, build upthe technology, so credit to you
for going on this journey.
The Travel Trends podcaststarted during the pandemic as

(01:23:46):
well, for very much the samereason that we wanted to
actually focus on how travelerbehavior was changing or had
changed after the pandemic, andso we have been on a really
exciting trajectory.
But in many ways it emulatesthe startup story and I'm very

(01:24:08):
committed to supporting startups, because I know how challenging
the journey is, but howrewarding it is also when you
start to realize your dream andthat more people are becoming a
part of this community.
And all of a sudden you meetpeople and are, oh my God,
you're Unravel.
People see the Travel Trendst-shirt.
They're like, oh, have you beenon the podcast?
And it becomes meaningful.
So credit to you, thank you.

Speaker 9 (01:24:27):
And the support I mean.
Any startup founder appreciatessupport.
You know it means the world.
You know.
When people recognize the workyou do and help out, it's
amazing.
That's awesome we occasionallysee people posting on social
media you know selfies withmultiple people that they've met
through Ravel.
Yeah yeah, and it's just.
It still takes me back to thisday.

(01:24:49):
Yeah, it's very powerfulemotionally to see people
enjoying the platform Totallyyeah, yeah, and getting
something out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Oh, that's great man.
I'm cool.
I'm really glad that we met atthis event.
I mean, we had a nice chatyesterday.
I'm glad we got the time to sitdown and record today.
I'm very keen to keep in touchwith you.
I'm one of the things I said toandy I'd love to have him back
for our ai summit later thisyear in october, so you can see
how ai is transforming thetravel industry and and
obviously specifically businesstravel.

(01:25:16):
So we'll definitely look tohave you back for that event and
certainly just want to wish youevery success and enjoy your
time in Miami.
But yeah, great to meet you,andy.
Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 9 (01:25:24):

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
My next guest has traveled by far the longest
journey to get here.
It's Irma, and she's come allthe way from Lithuania and I'm
thrilled to meet you, irma.
Thanks for joining us on TravelTrends and being here at the
Aviation Festival.

Speaker 4 (01:25:40):
My pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Now, not only did you have an epic journey to get
here in terms of your distance,but also to get into the US you
need a visa, and Irma was justtelling me that she had traveled
to Iran several years ago,around 2016.
And for that reason she had togo to the embassy and actually
go do the interview and like.
So it just shows you thecomplexity today of travel, like

(01:26:03):
how much friction there stillis in the entire travel process
to be able to get your passport,get your visa documentation and
then get here on multipleflights.
But I'm glad you've made thejourney.
Tell everyone I know this isyour first time at Aviation
Festival America, so telleveryone what brought you here
to this event.

Speaker 4 (01:26:21):
Well, the most key reason I'm here is to give a
speech tomorrow, because I wantto share some expertise that we
are doing in our airline interms of pilot recruitment and
pilot retention, and I find itbecause I manage these projects
and I find them really cool andeffective.
So this is why I wanted to comeand share the ideas with the

(01:26:42):
others.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
Cool and I look forward to trying a 10-year
session tomorrow.
This is, of course, day one ofthe two-day conference, and Irma
and I chatted a bit earlier andI was keen to sit down and
interview her because, as wehave different perspectives
across the travel industry, oneof the things that's unique

(01:27:04):
about Irma and her background isthat she works in people and
culture on the HR side and isvery focused on making sure,
throughout your career, thatthey have the pilots, they have
planes and that businesses areable to function.
So tell us about Avion Express,tell us a little bit about the
company that you're working fornow.

Speaker 4 (01:27:13):
Okay, so I will begin with bragging, because we are
the largest ACMI operator interms of narrow body in the
world, in the entire world, notonly in Europe, but the entire
world.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
Explain ACMI, just for our listeners that aren't
familiar.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
Aircraft Crew Maintenance Insurance.
Or in other words, we just flyfor other airlines.
You just buy the ticket forLufthansa, for example, but when
it comes to flying, you boardour plane.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
Got it Okay, cool.
And where is Avion Express?
You're based in Lithuania, butwhere is the company based?
And I know it's a globalorganization?
So how are you guys structured?
Where are the offices?

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
Okay, so we have the head office in Vilnius,
lithuania.
This is where I came from allthis long way.
Then we have AOC in Malta, thenwe have AOC in Brazil, then we
are in the finishing stage ofobtaining AOC in Mexico, and we
recently opened another airline,avion Express Philippines.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
Got it Okay and because the name sounds so
familiar, but obviously there'sAvianca, there's an Avion is a
class of MasterCard as well, andat least where I'm based.
But so I love the Avion nameand the obviously the Avion
Express, the fact that you guysare quick and can deliver and
step in.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
Yeah, exactly Thanks.
Thanks for the advertising.
No, it's good marketing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
It's built right there into the name.
No, it's good marketing.
It's built right there into thename.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background, though, how you
got into this space, becauseclearly you've had a long career
in aviation.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you did before this that
then brought you to AvionExpress.

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
OK, so many years ago I joined this small company by
Avia Solutions Group, which waslike a really, really new
company, small company, and itwas an aviation personnel
recruitment company calledAviationCVcom and I was like
literally selling people.
I was calling the airlines,calling the MROs, and just

(01:29:14):
saying, look guys, maybe youneed some pilots, maybe you need
some engineers, maybe cabincrew, and yes, so this is mainly
what I was doing.
No, I'm just looking for theclients.
And then I had a break.
I had two kids.
I still have them.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
That's great, congratulations, thank you.
They're five and three, is thatright?
Yeah, that's right.
And then, yes, I was invited tojoin Avian Express Very cool.
And then this company obviouslygreat that you're based in
Lithuania.
The company's based inLithuania, I'm assuming.
With this role, I mean, youtraveled a long way to get here,
but do you often travel foryour role?

(01:29:49):
Is that part of, like the….

Speaker 4 (01:29:50):
Yes, yes, I do, I do.
I take part in recruitmentevents.
I monitor them.
Of course, I'm meeting possiblepartners for crew exchange or
acquisition.
This is what my position isabout.

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit about, I guess a
little bit more about what it isyou guys do, and specifically
about the crew exchanges,because I find that part really
fascinating.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
It's like, you know, it's like a field trip for the
pilots.
Yeah, yeah, of course the needfor the business.
Yeah, of course the need forthe business.
Well, of course we wereestablished before COVID with
far little aircraft and, yes,first of all we've been like a
charter airline.
But then, you know, whileboiling in this pot of aviation,

(01:30:34):
we noticed the need.
You know that, for example,when there are high seasons for
the airlines, and we noticed theneed, you know that, for
example, when there are highseasons for the airlines,
instead of purchasing newaircraft or leasing new aircraft
, recruiting the crews, takingcare about all the insurance,
they can easily just hire us,you know, and we just come here
with our crews, with ourtrainings, with our everything,

(01:30:55):
and they just sell the ticketson their name, but the
passengers fly in our aircraft.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
It's easy like that, yeah, and how did you guys
expand to all the other regionsthat you serve?
Obviously, south America is amassive hub now for global
travel, so you're focused,obviously, on Central Europe,
but your global expansion.
So where are you guys now withyour global expansion?
And what's next?

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
Well, actually we are the first ACMI operator in
Latin America.
There were no one before us,and so we like, pioneered and we
opened the ways for thatBecause, again you know,
aviation is a seasonal business.
For example, when we havesummer season, which is a high
season in Europe, the southernhemisphere is having winter,

(01:31:40):
it's a low season, and viceversa.
When we have winter in Europe,there is a busy time in, let's
say, in Latin America.
So this is just generalgeographical knowledge.

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
Exactly Seasonality.
And then, with your talktomorrow, tell us a little bit
of what you're going to befocused on.
I know I'm going to try andmake my way there, but tell us
for our listeners that won'thave the opportunity to be a
part of it.
What are some things you'regoing to be talking about
highlighting?

Speaker 4 (01:32:08):
Yeah, I'm going to address.
You know, the most painfultopic these days for the
airlines is how to find pilotsgood pilots and how to retain
them.
Pilots, good pilots and how toretain them, because you know
it's like with all the walls andcountry walls open, I mean they
can go work anywhere.

Speaker 8 (01:32:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:32:25):
And they do.
So our key thing is not only torecruit them, because it's
quite a costly, actually process, but also to retain them in the
company.
So, yeah, I'm going to talkabout these field trips.
As I told you before, it's likeexchange, like, for example.
Again, you know, when we'rehaving low season in Europe, our
pilots don't have that much todo and they feel bad, you know,

(01:32:47):
sitting on the ground, eventhough they are paid, even they
are compensated.
But you know, being a pilot isa part of life, you know, and
most of them they dreamed tobecome pilots since they were
four or five years of age.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
Yeah, count my son in on that too.

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
yes, Okay, so maybe it's not too late.

Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
No, no, he starts in September going to aviation to
become a pilot.
So some of the questions I wasgoing to ask you next is what
the outlook is for pilots inthis industry.
Okay, it's huge, it's huge.

Speaker 4 (01:33:15):
I mean AI is not really going to overtake that
really soon.
Yeah, we, it's huge.
I mean AI is not really goingto overtake that really soon.
We can be sure about that andyou can be sure about it.
So yeah, so this is the ideathat when we don't have much
work for our pilots in Europe,we just send them on a field
trip to other airlines.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
So, when you talk tomorrow about how you recruit
and retain pilots, what are someof the aspects that someone
listening to this needs to beaware of?

Speaker 4 (01:33:38):
Yeah, it's easy because, you know, for example,
sometimes I do participate ininterviewing the pilots,
checking like their motivationand everything.
And I remember I was talking toone pilot and he was applying
from really big, huge MiddleEastern company and I said, come
on, hey, why you want to leavethis this?

(01:33:59):
You know it's like everypilot's dream to get in there.
And he said, you know, I'm justa number there, even though we
have 600 pilots at the moment.
Uh, still, you know, we try toto make it personal, uh, try to
to get the.
I mean to cater to the needs,to their requests.
And the most important thingthat we found that is working
for a couple of years isempowerment and we allow them to

(01:34:23):
take positions in the companyexcept from being just a pilot
and just driving the aircraft.
It's very technical, but I meanthey love contributing to the
growth of the company and itreally works.
I mean they are so happy andthey don't even ask for
compensation for that.
I love the company, I want tohelp it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
That's great.
Tell us some of the key trendsthat you and Avion Express are
paying attention to.

Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
Well, again, I will just tell you from the
perspective of personnel, butthe trends are that aircrafts
are produced faster than thepilots.
Yeah, that's true, and this iswhy there is really like a
global shortage and airlines,they're doing anything and
everything just to attract newtalent.

(01:35:07):
It's like joining bonuses,salaries, days off and many,
many things.
So it's really getting more andmore difficult for any airlines
Like, the very important thingis to maybe to have a good name,
a good reputation, to have along history, which means that
you know, if you survived COVID,that already means something.

(01:35:29):
It means that if we are heretoday, we might be here tomorrow
and even after one year,because you know everybody needs
like some kind of stability.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
For sure that's fascinating.
Well, it's very encouraging formy son.
I'm going to message him afterwe finish our interview just to
reassure him that he's made theright decision.
But even when we were touringsome of the campuses, they were
all highlighting to him the 96%job placement rate and just the
demand for pilots, especially inthe face of AI.
And I'm glad you mentioned that, because even a friend of mine

(01:35:57):
had said to me your son doesknow about AI.
Right, he's like.
Of course he does, but, likeyour point, that's not a role
that's going to be outdated inthe near future.
It's such a necessary skill andwith the rise of passenger
travel post-COVID, so manypeople are flying and they're
adding more routes, they'rebuying more planes, but the

(01:36:18):
critical is actually to fillthem with pilots.
The one other thing I thoughtwas encouraging and I'm curious
to know this is being raised bya single mom.
It's always something Istrongly advocate for my son,
just for women in leadershippositions in the travel industry
.
But when we went to tour someof the colleges, my son was so
thrilled there were so manyfemale pilots and they were

(01:36:40):
highlighting the fact thatthey've had the most number of
female pilots graduating and hewas just so excited to see this.
So, if you don't mind, I'mcurious to know how, in your
space, are you seeing more womencome into aviation as pilots?
Is it still mainly amale-dominated profession?
It's still.

Speaker 4 (01:36:59):
Tell me something encouraging news.
Of course I mean no.
Of course we do welcome women,and whenever we see application
from a woman, we cheer.

Speaker 7 (01:37:07):
Woo-hoo, a woman has applied.

Speaker 11 (01:37:11):
Let's hope she passes the screening.

Speaker 4 (01:37:13):
But I mean, yeah, because the thing is that it's
quite a tough work.
Of course, every pilot, whenchoosing this profession, they
know what to expect, for itmeans that you might be
traveling a lot.
It means that you might spendyour Christmas Eve far away from
your family.
There are lots of things, butthen they are in disguise, you

(01:37:35):
know, and this is what they loveto do.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really fascinating.
And then when I think of thecompanies that you work with, so
give us an understanding of whohires you at Avion Express,
like the airlines, tell us alittle bit about, I guess, who
your customers are and how youfind them or they find you.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
Well, so our main customers are the other airlines
, naturally, and of course wehave some long-term clients and
then we have some ad hoc clientsand sometimes we also do fly
like charter flights for touroperators.
Like you know workations it'slike really popular right now
you know, to get all yourcompany in two or three planes

(01:38:16):
somewhere else to anothercountry.
So yeah, we do that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
So are you often going into these situations,
bidding against other companiesthat offer similar services?
How do they procure companieslike yours to come in, because
obviously taking someone'spassengers has to be one of the
greatest responsibilities thatyou're going to extend the duty
of care and everything that goeswith the airline.
So clearly a lot of duediligence goes into making

(01:38:41):
decisions on partnerships.
So I'm just genuinely curiousof how the process works for an
airline that is looking to havesupport with their capacity and
are looking at differentpartners, like Avion Express, to
work with.

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
I think that the main bottleneck is the main like I
don't know thing is the price ofthe aircraft, because we
operate exclusively 320s and theprice is really huge at the
moment because, you know, it'spost-covid, everybody's growing,
so naturally the aircraft isvery expensive.
But we already have them.
We already have 54 aircraft inour fleet and it's not

(01:39:17):
economically wise for anotherairline to purchase a new one
when it's like really expensive.
So why not to just sign a dealwith Avian Express?
You know who will fly for youand we will just add to their
fleet and add to theircapacities.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Very cool, okay cool.
And then something earlier youmentioned Lufthansa.
Is that an example of some ofthe airlines you work with today
in Europe?

Speaker 4 (01:39:36):
Yeah, we work with one of their subsidiaries,
Eurowings.

Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
Oh, of course.
Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar.
Okay, cool, that's awesome.
And then, with you being hereat the event I know it's the
first time here in the Americasand you're speaking tomorrow, so
there was plenty of reason tobe here.
Clearly, there's networkingopportunities and learning
opportunities.
What are some of the otherthings you're hoping to?

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
Well, first of all, I really want to share the
experience because, I mean, Iknow that lots of airlines are
struggling with pilots gettingthem and retention, so I really
hope that my practice and myexpertise will give them some
inspiration and they will startusing this.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
I'm sure they will.
I'm sure they will.
I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:16):
Please make notes.
It's really good ideas and, yes, of course, maybe I will find
some partners for future years.
You know who would like to takeour pilots on a field trip or
give their pilots on a fieldtrip?

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
Oh, that's great.
Well, I want to make sure thatpeople know how they can follow
up and find out more informationabout Avion Express or reach
out to you or the team.
So what are the best ways foranyone listening to this to
engage with you afterwards?

Speaker 4 (01:40:39):
Of course, Dan you can find me on LinkedIn.
That's Irma Sadlow-Skaita, orjust type Irma and Avion Express
.
I'm sure you're going to findme a blonde one Because we have
two Irmas.
Actually, my name is quite rarebut we're such a huge company
we have two Yermas in thecompany, Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
I know I was going to try and pronounce your last
name and it's a lovely last name, but I certainly don't want to
run the risk of but yeah, say itone more time so all of our
listeners can hear it saidproperly Very nice, and, ermin,
it's been a real pleasure tomeet you.
You certainly are full ofpositive energy and I'm
definitely looking forward toyour session tomorrow and

(01:41:19):
looking forward to keeping intouch, and we're having our AI
Summit later this year, so itmight be an opportunity if you
guys have some innovations to beable to share about what you're
working on in that space.
But I certainly look forward tokeeping in touch and really
enjoyed you being a part of this.

Speaker 4 (01:41:32):
So thank you.
Okay, same here.
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Jack, who's
the terminal manager in NewYork, and he we had a nice
conversation earlier today and Ireally wanted to bring him into
this podcast because he wasgiving two different talks today
and I want to highlight whatbrought him here.
But let's let's start first ofall, jack, welcome to the travel
trends.
Great to have you on thepodcast.

Speaker 5 (01:41:54):
Thank you.
Thank you, Dan.
It's amazing to be here, to beone of your guests, and
especially in this amazing eventthat takes all of aviation and
tech passionate here.

Speaker 2 (01:42:05):
Yeah, thanks Van.
We had such a nice chat earlierand you definitely have such
positive energy and just a verypositive outlook on what's
happening in the aviationindustry and you have a really
unique role.
So tell everyone first what itis you do.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
Absolutely so.
I'm Jackie Ramos and everyonecalls me Jack.

Speaker 2 (01:42:22):
That's awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:42:23):
That's great to make it easier and I'm a terminal and
airside manager right now fromMunich Airport, nj, and I've
been in the industry for morethan 15 years.
I was previously in the airlineworld for more than 10 years at
JetBlue Airways and also inAvianca.
That's an international carrierand it's been amazing to be
here one and two also to be partof the industry.

(01:42:46):
That's very fascinating andalso very amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Yeah, and now.
So Munich Airport, new Jersey.
Because when I saw you and wewere chatting earlier, I was
like I'm going to Munich Airportin Germany in the summertime.
Tell everyone the differencebetween those two.
Obviously, one's in the States,one's in Germany, but Munich
Airport is actually in NewJersey.

Speaker 5 (01:43:03):
That's correct.
Munich Airport, NJ is theterminal operator of the
Terminal 8 at Newark LibertyInternational Airport.
We manage the entire terminal,so we oversee the entire phase
of the operation at Newark forTerminal A.
And then also we work a longtime with our partners, with the

(01:43:25):
stakeholders, with the airlines.
We have five airlines out ofthe terminal where we have
United, Jeff Lurk, Canada Deltaand American Airlines, and it's
a very busy terminal and alsoone of the most beautiful ones.
That's why it's a five-starterminal.

Speaker 2 (01:43:40):
That's really cool, and so the idea of being a
terminal manager.
Tell us a little bit about thatrole.
For anyone that's listening tothis, that is new in many ways I
am to the aviation space.
It's the first time I've beenin this conference, so I'm
finding it fascinating already.
But tell everyone a bit aboutthe role and what it is you do
as a terminal manager.

Speaker 5 (01:44:00):
As you do as a terminal manager.
As a terminal and airsidemanager, we operate all the
customers facing services.
Let's say we provide theassistance to all the passengers
traveling out of the terminal,coming into the terminal, also
the concessions, all thoserestaurants that you can see,
that you can find at theterminal.
So we are the one, along withthe other team, that we manage
what it is inside and, at thesame time, the airside.
It comes with the aircraftmovement, the efficiency and

(01:44:22):
also the safety and theoperation in the airside area.
So, above all, we manage whatit is inside, the landside and
also in the airside and makingsure that the customer has a
pleasant experience when they'retraveling in and out of the
terminal.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
Very cool and there's such a specific skill set that
you have to be able to navigate.
And you're clearly in goodcompany here at this event
because everyone else here is inthe aviation space and a lot of
aviation enthusiasts.
So tell us what brought youhere.
I know you had two speakingengagements this afternoon.
We'll talk about that in amoment, what you cover, but what

(01:44:57):
ultimately attracted you tocoming to Aviation Fest, and
have you been to this eventbefore?

Speaker 5 (01:45:02):
Yes, I've been in multiple Aviation Fests before
because it's the perfectscenario for any aviation leader
to networking and also to getto know what is the new trends
in the aviation and also tounderstand exactly what other
countries or companies arefacing through other challenges,
their success and also what isthe new technology that we can

(01:45:24):
bring to our companies, in thiscase, to the airport and this is
my second time in this onespecifically, but I'm always
being abroad to otherconferences and for this one in
specific, they were interestedfor my background when it comes
to the racing, the in-flightcustomer experience and the

(01:45:44):
passenger experience.
They were looking forward to getto know more as a terminal
manager perspective, how it'sexperienced in the terminal
that's completely differentcompared to the airline, and
also on getting to know moreabout the culture, the culture,
development, leadership and forthe new generation of employees,
how, what we're doing as aleader and in our current role

(01:46:10):
to keep people engaged, to keepall those agents that working at
the airport for the airline,for concession, to keep them
happy and motivated.
So that's why you might see myenergy, because I'm always
fascinated and happy about it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
Well, the other thing , too.
With knowing the sessions thatyou were a part of, one of the
things that stood out to me, andone of the reasons I was keen
to have this conversation withyou, is that when you're focused
on the passenger experience,that's very much the way that
very successful startups focuson the user, and how do you
improve or decrease friction andincrease the joy and
satisfaction you have as a guestor a customer?

(01:46:43):
And that, to me, is how yousolve the biggest problems and
make sure that you arepositioning your business for
growth and that people havegreat experiences.
They want to fly through yourairport.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you talked about in your
presentation.
How do you go about improvingthe guest experience or the
passenger experience?

Speaker 5 (01:47:03):
In our panel about the passenger customer
experience, because everyoneuses different terminology, but
it's been the same and in ourcase, we make sure that we
provide enough assistance whenit comes to our agents, with the
team that we have in place indifferent areas of location to

(01:47:28):
be able to provide real-timecustomer support to those
passengers traveling out of theterminal or coming into the
terminal, and also the tools,the technology tools that we
have in place that support that.
So most likely we were sharingthe experience in that first
panel where we on how are weraising the bar and influence
experience right now.
So for me, from the terminalperspective, it's just like how

(01:47:51):
we work hands-on to make surethat the customer have the
support right there and also, atthe same time, how we work
hands-on-hands with the terminaloperators, with the airlines,
with the stakeholders, to makesure that we are all aligned and
we can provide the samemeasures.

Speaker 2 (01:48:06):
Yeah, it's interesting, both panels were
stacked, like the people thatwere presenting on both these
panels with you, one of thethings I was also keen to
understand from your vantagepoint coming to an event like
this.
You mentioned networking asbeing one of the things I was
also keen to understand fromyour vantage point, coming to an
event like this.
You mentioned networking asbeing one of the drivers.
For sure, obviously, I see thatas a huge benefit Learning from
our colleagues and peers andpeople sharing like yourself
here, and being part of thepanel.

(01:48:28):
But were there other thingsthat attract you to Aviation
Fest or specifically this year,that are part of the programming
or that you either havebenefited from from from already
or, you know, looking forwardto getting out of the next
couple of days?
I actually I know that youmight have to rush back tomorrow
.

Speaker 5 (01:48:44):
yeah, so today's the day to try and get it all done
yes and well, definitely it'sgood to know the new technology
because there's so manycompanies out here that have
different technology and systemto to provide and to provide
improvement in the airport forthe airport, for the airline,
especially when it comes to data.
That is very important becausewith the data, it's what we like

(01:49:05):
reading data and getting data.
It's how we are able to improveour customer experience and
also the benefits of ourcustomers when they're traveling
and passing by the terminal.
But at the same time, we wereable to, in those panels, we

(01:49:25):
were able to talk about that andwe all agree that one of the
main things for us to come tothis event is to get to know the
new technology what is updatedright now, what is up to date,
what is the one that's killingit, what is updated right now,
what is up to date, what is theone that's killing it, and also
how we can benefit our companyand our organization in
utilizing those to improve thecustomer experience and maintain

(01:49:46):
the high standard that we'vebeen putting out there.

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
Cool, and then obviously you've come down to
Miami specifically for this, butin previous years does the
conference move fromdestinations or has this
primarily been the hub foraviation festival?

Speaker 5 (01:50:00):
for this one is always been in it will most
likely it's been in here, yeah,and there's others that they've
been in in other states, but atleast for this one is always,
like, very fascinated by it coolbecause I know some move around
and um, the clearly the peoplewho come to this conference know
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
There's obviously a lot of people that work in the
industry.
They're used to seeing eachother, and so the one thing I
wanted to talk to you about aswell is some of the big trends
you're seeing in the world ofaviation, both with your role at
at with Munich airport, butalso, you know, coming to events
like this, doing speaking andthought leadership.
What are some of the thingsthat you're paying attention to
that are kind of the biggesttrends or bigger trends in

(01:50:39):
aviation that you think willshape the customer experience in
the years ahead?

Speaker 5 (01:50:53):
Well, definitely will be the way that we are
implementing those technologiesin the entertainment and when it
comes to entertainment one, andalso for the accessibility to
make it more friendly for thosedisabled passengers that we have
, because between having theentertainment, it keeps you to
pass through what is the anxietyprocess of the toll that you
have to travel, and then also itgives you additional tools for

(01:51:16):
you as a person, for if you'retraveling with your family, with
elderly customers, with yourkids, and those are the tools
that you're going to find inthis type of event, and then
also when it comes toaccessibility, so also give an
opportunity for those customersthat have special needs, so that
they can find tools to helpthem to go through the process

(01:51:38):
when they're traveling.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
Yeah, it's interesting that there's a
number of startups wheel theworld, a number that are focused
on accessibility.
There's a company calledTransReport, out of the UK that
has worked with rail and withaviation.
It certainly has become thatmuch more awareness.
But also there's a businessopportunity there that, if you
know, literally it's about about10 of the population has some
form of disability, and so a lotof people didn't travel because

(01:52:03):
they weren't comfortable giventheir disability, and so this is
where you know you could be youcould open up to.
I guess where I'm going withthat is that like there's a
commercial imperative, there's abusiness opportunity to be had
by solving this problem.
So it it's interesting youmentioned that AI obviously came
up in our topic.
I'm sure it came up in yours aswell, what are you seeing as

(01:52:25):
far as the use cases currentlyfor generative AI in your
experience running this terminal?
Are you guys utilizing it insome capacity and, if so, where?

Speaker 5 (01:52:34):
Yes, you can see it right now because it's been
implemented in every tool,especially when it comes to the
touchscreen, that you have thosetouchscreen accessible
communication tools that theairports provide for customers
when they're traveling out.
They want to know okay, what isthe terminal that I need to go
to?
Do I need to take a shuttle?

(01:52:54):
How long is it going to take mefrom here to there, if I need
to take a shuttle from TerminalA to Terminal C, or if I need to
, or how I navigate inside theairport, what is the amenities
and all of that?
And that's a great opportunityfor the AI and automation to
come through, because that wayyou have that system to give you

(01:53:14):
a quick answer for any of thosequestions that you might need.
And also, when you operate in aterminal there's multiple,
there's a diverse group ofpeople traveling that they speak
different languages, so thatalso gives you an opportunity to
have that translator in otherlanguages as well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:30):
Yeah, the multilingual.
I mean for me, the potentialfor Google Translate, even using
the app, where you know you canscan over and it instantly
translates it for you.
The idea of like real timespeech, which we've been on the
cusp of and now we're more orless there.
This, I think, is reallyexciting, especially for
airports when you have peoplearriving from different places.

(01:53:51):
You don't find the interpreter,like you just have it in your
phone.
And the other thing I wanted toask you, when one of the big
topics was robotics andautomation and some of the
initiatives that are decreasingthe friction in airports,
biometrics being a good exampleor use case of that what are
some of the things you guys areimplementing at your airport or

(01:54:13):
preparing to?
That might be interesting forour listeners to know how you're
.
This is more on the terminalversus, like the experience on a
plane, but you know, just toget people through that process,
which some people find, youknow time consuming and
frustrating, and going throughsecurity, and then you know
passport control and no.

Speaker 5 (01:54:32):
Yes, I think right now what we have in the terminus
, we also have the biometricswhen it comes to the checkpoint
when you're going throughsecurity, because most likely
the airlines, they manage theother aspect, but we have the
biometrics when it's coming tothe checkpoint so that way you

(01:54:53):
can have an automation through,like they can recognize yourself
and then you can go through thecheckpoint.
And also when it comes toboarding as well, because then
you can put your boarding passto scan and also you can put
your face on it and that cancreate the automation
automatically.
So that way you can go throughyour next step.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
Very cool, yep.
And then for you, you'reobviously an avid traveler as
well.
I have to assume that's part ofthe reason that you work in
this industry.

Speaker 5 (01:55:23):
Well, you know that we're all in here.
No one can say, no, I'm justhere.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
No, we love to travel yeah, when you travel and we
like to make improvement andalso bring solution in the
travel industry as well totally,and I mean, and part of loving
travel is loving people andconnecting with cultures and
like, tell everyone, if youwouldn't mind, because I've
obviously I mentioned you asjack, but you've got a really
interesting name and aninteresting background.
So tell everyone a bit moreabout your background if you
don't mind sharing that, becausewhat I want to also ask you is

(01:55:47):
what about some of your upcomingtravel plans?
But I think it's only helpfulto know that in the context of
where you're from and then whereyou're at, and then where do
you want to go to explore theworld.

Speaker 5 (01:55:55):
Absolutely so my name is Jackie, but explore the
world.
Absolutely so my name is Jackie, jackie and uh, but yes, I'm
French and Dominican, so I wasborn and raised in Dominican
Republic.
I'm coming from, uh, from a onFrench backgrounds, from Paris,
so from my mom's side, and uh,so I'm being in, I'm being all
over the world, basically, anduh, but uh, yes, and uh, and

(01:56:16):
that's why my, my, my beautifulaccent.

Speaker 2 (01:56:19):
Yeah, exactly, you've got a lovely French accent.

Speaker 5 (01:56:21):
So and so, yes, but I was on.
That's part of my background,so I'm being, and I've been, in
the industry for such a longtime.
I went to the architectureschool, I ended up being in the
aviation industry, and I alsohave a great passion for the
fashion too.

Speaker 2 (01:56:34):
So oh, that's cool and that's also evident into.
So now, that's cool and that'salso evident.
I mean, uh, some of you canwatch clips and highlights on
our social channels so you'll beable to see uh jackie, dressed
very finely in his nice bluesuit and uh, um, but yeah, the
other thing I wanted to ask youthen was what's coming up for
your travel plans?
Where are you headed thissummer?
What's?
Because when you work in thisspace, it's also great reminders

(01:56:55):
I'm sure you experience as wellwhen you actually get out in
the world and know what it'slike to be a passenger again and
see examples of airports doingthings well or airlines doing
things well.
So I always find that I justI'm reminded every time I travel
just how much I love travel,because once you're in the
industry like when you work inthe industry you also need to
remind yourself why you enjoyand love traveling.

(01:57:16):
So tell us what you haveplanned next.

Speaker 5 (01:57:19):
Absolutely so this summer.
So I'm gonna be well, thissummer I'm planning to go to um,
to italy, south italy that's uh, that's one of my favorite spot
on in the world where,specifically, where are you
going on?

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
costa malta, oh, amazing, I've never been.
Oh, it's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (01:57:34):
Yeah, you go, yeah and that's always uh, that's
planned, that's a lineup in theplan, and also on then in the
fall, between the fall, thewinter.
So also going to make a stop inparis yeah and in london for
fashion week, because I love tosee the new trends and the new
what's coming around for theforecasting.
And that also helps because,since I'm in the in the airport,
in the aviation industry, I getrequests from airlines to

(01:57:56):
provide consultants when itcomes to, oh, what is the new
trend?
The forecast.
Because, since I know howeveryone feels when you're at
the airport or working for anairline, so I can provide some
real feedback to those leadersin that industry so that way
they can take it inconsideration when they're
building the new uniforms.

Speaker 2 (01:58:13):
Yeah, one of the things that our listeners may
not be all familiar with, but Ithink, jackie, you certainly are
that our listeners may not beall familiar with, but I think,
jackie, you certainly are whichis when you're in aviation and
fashion is the outfits thatpilots actually wear were
inspired by ships, and so theidea of being a captain and the
way it used to work people wouldline up and you'd meet the crew
as you're entering the shipbecause it would give you that

(01:58:34):
same trust and confidence.
The same reason why banks weresuch large buildings because you
wanted to make sure your moneywas safe and you want to feel
like you're secure when you goon a ship or on a plane.
And so I had someone fromjaylen, which they design
clothing for hospitality, and Ifound it fascinating to get a
sense of, like, what's happeningin fashion.
So, now that I got the chanceto ask you this with, when it
comes to transport now, is thereany trends in?

(01:58:57):
Because some, some airlineshave fantastic, uh, airline
outfits, uniforms, exactly,thank you, yeah, amazing
uniforms is is there.
Do you see any developmentshappening in the fashion world
of aviation at the moment thatare?

Speaker 5 (01:59:13):
yes, yes, I know yes, because, uh, there's some,
there's so many new, uh, newstartup airlines that are
starting up right now andthey're using new designers to
bring, like, a more modernoutfit but also more comfortable
and usable, because you cannotcome with an actual couture
style when you know that you'regoing to be wearing that every

(01:59:34):
day.
So they are more concentratingto make sure that when you're
wearing that outfit in yourday-to-day work, when you're
wearing that outfit in your dayto day work, because you're
wearing that for so many hours,so you can be comfortable during
the whole time and you don'tget any uncomfortability in your
body.
So that's what I'm saying yes,and when I say no because, at
the same time, there's a lot ofleaders that they remain a

(01:59:56):
little bit old school and theywant to go to what the basic
concept of a uniform is.
Yes, they can add some stylistto make it look like nice and
modern, but at the same time,they don't.
It's hard for some of them to togo out of the comfort zone yeah
and I think that's when they're, that's when that's where
they're lacking on it and ifthey, uh, if they are more risk,

(02:00:16):
they add more risk to those.
They will go higher and theywill get great products that
everyone can wear and everyonecan really look out.
Your airline has oh my god, Ilove that that uniform, even if
the airline is not good at it.
But if you have a goodpresentation, it's everything
yeah, no, I mean, there wasactually.

Speaker 2 (02:00:36):
Part of.
The reason that the questioncame to mind is that there's
I've seen a couple of people infull uniform here at the event,
wearing their airline uniforms,and especially when it's like a
bright red, it's just verystriking and when you see a team
coming together, it doesinstill trust and confidence,
and some airlines just do thatparticularly well, particularly
well.
But in terms of your prioritiesand what you're focusing on

(02:00:58):
going into, you know, 2025 and2026, what are some of the other
things in your role that you'relooking to develop?

Speaker 5 (02:01:10):
enhance.
What are some of the otherfocus areas for you, Jackie?
Yes, for me it's going to belike the end of 2025, towards
2026, it's be on provide moresupport to the new generation of
is provide more support to thenew generation of, let's say the
students like this newgeneration, that they are in
middle and high school, and topromote what is the aviation
industry, what is the offer,what can be your career tomorrow

(02:01:31):
, Tomorrow, you can be a pilot,you can be tech ops, you can be
an airport manager, you can bean in-fly and for next year, one
of my main focus is to continueeducating these new kids, these
teenagers, because now this newgeneration is being very hard
to get them very concentratedand motivated for the job that
they're doing.
They just go for the paycheckand there's a big lack of those

(02:01:56):
who are really go on life by themission.

Speaker 2 (02:02:00):
And Jack, the other thing I wanted to ask you I'm
sure people listening to thisare going to be intrigued to
know more about your role and tobe able to follow up with you.
What would be the best way forpeople to reach out LinkedIn
email?
Where would people go for,especially people who have been
inspired by your presentationstoday, that want to keep in
touch with you?

Speaker 5 (02:02:16):
Absolutely by LinkedIn.
So Jackie Ramos on LinkedIn andalso I am Jack Ramos on
Instagram.
So those are my tools so youcan see on LinkedIn more
aviation and Instagram a littlebit more of fashion, and then
you got the combination.

Speaker 2 (02:02:30):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, it's a real pleasuremeeting you.
I'm glad we made time for this.
I hope you get to stay againtomorrow, but if you do have to
rush home, I'm just so glad wemanaged to capture this time
together.
But, yeah, great to meet you.
I look forward to keeping intouch and thanks again for
joining us no.

Speaker 5 (02:02:42):
Thank you and I appreciate that, and best of
luck in this project.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Arpad Sakal
, who is based in London and heactually works in the search
side, like the executiverecruitment side within aviation
, so I was keen to have thischat with him, to be a part of
this special episode, given thatthat's an industry that is
highly specialized to aviation.
Of course, we did speak to Irma, who works for a software

(02:03:09):
company, and she does people andculture and helps recruit
pilots, and she was explainingto me that our listeners would
have heard on this episode justhow in demand pilots are and how
difficult it is to recruit andretain that type of talent.
So, arpad, first of all, greatto have you on Travel Trends,
thanks for joining us.

Speaker 6 (02:03:24):
Thank you, Dan.
Thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (02:03:26):
For sure and tell everyone a little bit more about
what it is you guys do atCormus Partners.

Speaker 6 (02:03:32):
So we're a London-based search firm.
We typically work above thedirector level, seniority level.
We focus on the aviation andbroader transportation
infrastructure sectors, so wetypically deal with the airports
, airlines and related servicescompanies.
Basically we're based in London, but most of what we do is

(02:03:53):
international or global.
We work quite a bit in theAmericas, hence we are here in.

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
Miami, yeah, for sure .
So tell me, is this your firstAFA or have you been to other
aviation?

Speaker 6 (02:04:01):
festivals no, I've been three or four times
previously.

Speaker 2 (02:04:04):
Oh cool, all right.
So what I mean?
It's probably an obvious answerto this question, but I'm still
keen to ask it anyway whatbrings you to the event Since
you've been before?
What brought you to the eventhere in Miami?

Speaker 6 (02:04:14):
It's traditionally been a place where a lot of
people, especially from theFlorida local community, come,
whether it's airports, airlinesa great place to meet, get to
know people, catch up with oldfriends.
I mean, that's the main thingthat we do here and, of course,
Miami is a great place formeetings externally as well.

Speaker 2 (02:04:32):
Basically, yeah, for sure.
And then your specific area ofexpertise is in executive
recruitment, and what type ofroles are you typically looking
to fill and what are some of theclients that you work with?

Speaker 6 (02:04:44):
So they fall into two .
One is the sort of commercialspace like finance, marketing,
digital e-commerce, things likethat, and also we work quite a
bit on the operational,technical safety security side
of things as well.
Basically maintenance, which ispart of the industry that is

(02:05:06):
struggling to attract and retainpeople Got it Cool.

Speaker 2 (02:05:11):
And then, in terms of some of the trends that you're
seeing, because when you'redoing recruiting for these roles
, I'm sure many companies arecontinuing updating their job
specs with what they needbecause AI and technology and
you know technology isdefinitely transforming this
industry in so many differentways.
What are some of the trendsyou're seeing in recruitment as
it relates to aviation or thetravel industry?

Speaker 6 (02:05:32):
Yeah, exactly Most of the needs, what we are seeing
are on the digital side ofthings, e-commerce in particular
.
Airlines are trying todifferentiate themselves,
basically, when it comes totheir offerings on the web as
well.
Basically, how do you make surethat you are utilizing all the
touch points you have with thecustomer as well?
So the best organizations outthere are the ones who are not

(02:05:54):
just trying to recycle peoplefrom other airlines, but those
who are trying to look into theother sort of related industry,
like travel technology,hospitality, things like that.
That's what we're seeing,especially in Europe.
There's an appetite to getpeople in who are not
traditionally coming from anairline background.

Speaker 2 (02:06:13):
Right, and then, in terms of where you think we're
headed in 2026, what are some ofthe things that you, as a
business, you guys, areprioritizing or focusing in your
growth plans?

Speaker 6 (02:06:27):
I'd like to do more work in the Americas.
Hence we are here and I thinkwhat we are trying to do is,
rather than trying to work witheveryone, try to establish
ourselves as the go-to firm whenit comes to all things
sector-specific.
So airlines, airports that'swhat we are trying to do.
I think the Americas in generalis a really good place If

(02:06:50):
you're here on the ground andbuild a relationship, one at a
time.
I think it's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (02:06:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I want to make sure thatpeople can find out more
information to connect with youguys.
I know the website iscormispartnerscom, C-O-R-M-I-S
partnerscom.
I'm sure you're on LinkedIn aswell.
But, yeah, what are the waysfor people to be able to reach
out to you, Arpad?

Speaker 6 (02:07:09):
Probably the best way is LinkedIn.
I'm quite active there.
I write on a weekly basis andif you would like to reach out
or drop me a line, please do so,because I'm in the business of
getting to know you.

Speaker 2 (02:07:26):
Yeah, and Arpad, so he's Hungarian and his name is
actually.

Speaker 6 (02:07:29):
I've never met an Arpad before and you haven't met
an Arpad outside of Hungary.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (02:07:36):
Exactly.
It's quite telling.
If someone is called Arpad,that individual will be from
Hungary.
Yeah, and the other uniquething about his name is that
there's actually a silent Z, andI'll say Z, not Z, because I'm
Canadian, but it's S-Z-A-K-A-L.
But I'm sure if you just typein Arpad into LinkedIn, you're
probably a small group of people.

Speaker 6 (02:07:50):
No, there's only one Arpad worth knowing on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2 (02:07:54):
There you go Awesome.
Well, I'm sure people willreach out to you.
I'm certainly looking forwardto keeping in touch, and it was
great to meet you here, arpad.

Speaker 6 (02:07:59):
Great.
Thank you for the opportunityDan Thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Dalton Lane
, who runs Laniap Aviation, andI had a chance to chat with him
yesterday.
This guy is 29 years old, he'sa pilot and he also runs a
business that helps companiescreate new airlines, which is
like crazy, I mean.
Obviously I didn't know thatthis existed.
Maybe it didn't You're thefirst one to come up with this

(02:08:24):
concept, but tell us a littlebit about your background and
what it is you do.

Speaker 8 (02:08:28):
Yeah, I don't know if I'm the first, but definitely a
pioneer in the space.
I hold over a decade ofindustry experience, from cabin
to being a pilot, to airportoperations, working kind of all
aspects of it.
And a lot of people come withthe crazy idea of starting an
airline.
So I said, well, why don't Itake that and make it into an

(02:08:51):
actual business plan and thatyou can determine and get it
into investors and determine theviability of it and see who's
real and who's not five for me,because I really like his name.

Speaker 2 (02:09:09):
And, sure enough, I'm like Dalton from the Patrick
Swayze's character, of course,in the original Roadhouse and
his name is Dalton.
I was just always the coolestname and you told me yesterday
that's actually how you got yourname.

Speaker 8 (02:09:23):
Exactly yeah, my mother was obsessed with Patrick
Swayze and Roadhouse, that'sawesome.

Speaker 2 (02:09:30):
So where are you based, though, Dalton?
Tell everyone exactly, becauseI know you've been working in
the aviation space for manyyears.
But where's home for you?

Speaker 8 (02:09:38):
Boston, Massachusetts .
Gotta love it.
Gotta have my dunks everymorning, right?
Next there to Logan AirportNice there you go.

Speaker 2 (02:09:47):
And then, what brought you to AFA?
Clearly, there's tons ofopportunity for what you do, but
yeah, is it your first AFA?

Speaker 8 (02:09:54):
Yeah, this is my first time being here, so
there's a lot of opportunitieswith different vendors and
different people to connect,especially with the startups
that I work with.
A lot of them don't come withthe experience necessary, so I'm
able to kind of determinewhether or not a lot of the
software companies are who weneed to work with, as well as
other data companies, and beingable to see if we can leverage

(02:10:14):
that data.

Speaker 2 (02:10:15):
Cool and I know you've been attending a number
of sessions and clearly there'sa lot of networking
opportunities.
What has been some of thehighlights over the last couple
days of being here?

Speaker 8 (02:10:23):
I think a lot of the leveraging of new age data.
So I was able to see someUnited sessions.
I was able to see some revenuesessions and see how different
airlines have gotten new avenuesof revenue.

Speaker 2 (02:10:36):
personally, Very cool .
And then, with your business,tell us some of the clients that
you're working with.
Clearly, one of the pioneers ofcreating an airline was Richard
Branson with Virgin right.
There's that famous line aboutif you want to be a millionaire,
you start with a billiondollars, and then you start an
airline.

Speaker 6 (02:10:55):
Yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 8 (02:10:56):
Richard Branson is great.
He's very much an inspiration,I think, to many of us in the
industry.
We have a few clients, one inthe UK that has looked into
starting up, and then one in theUS as well that I'm working
with closely that is close tolaunch.
So unfortunately I can't saythe name just yet, but you'll

(02:11:16):
hear about it in the next monthor two, I'm sure.
But I was able.
Whenever he came to me, we tooka police officer and turned him
into an airline founder.

Speaker 2 (02:11:26):
No way, that's really cool.
That's awesome.
I guess you need some startupcapital for Absolutely.
Take us through.
Actually, I'm really intriguedto know the steps.
So, just give us a bit of anoverview of what's actually
involved in creating an airline.

Speaker 8 (02:11:41):
Yeah.
So I like to kind of use theSouthwest reference, when Herb
Keller and Roland King wanted tostart the airline and it was
like Herb, let's start anairline, Roland, you're crazy,
let's do it.
So I figure out whether or notthey're crazy or if it's
actually a viable idea, firstasking them a bunch of questions
when are you going to start?
What aircraft are you thinkingof?
What's available?

(02:12:01):
And then kind of bring themthrough that and help them
develop a route, structure,fleet plan and determining
what's available on the marketwhether or not it's a lease or
own for the aircraft, and thenbuilding out that business plan
with financial projections.
And then start looking atinvestors who's available in
what region?
Where are they able to actuallyget money from?
Especially during COVID, a lotmore investors started looking

(02:12:26):
into the airline industrybecause people needed money?

Speaker 2 (02:12:27):
Yeah, exactly, that's really interesting.
So are these?
Often you mentioned a policeofficer, but are they often
entrepreneurs in otherindustries that want to get into
airlines?
What are you seeing as some ofthe motivations for why someone
would want to start an airline?

Speaker 8 (02:12:42):
Some of them have family that have been in the
industry and that's someinfluence for them getting into
it.
A lot of them are serialentrepreneurs that maybe work in
tech space, for example, andthen they are wanting to found
this airline and they don'tnecessarily have the financial
background of it, they just havethe.
I'm a data nerd and I just wantto get into this side of

(02:13:05):
wanting to start an airline, andthat's a lot of fun to work
with because I'm also a datanerd, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:13:12):
And then when it comes to the aircraft, obviously
that's a big decision.
My son's taught me a lot aboutthis because we've spent many,
many days plane spotting atvarious airports and so I've
gotten to know all my Boeingsand my Airbuses and the
different engines.
And he uses FlightRadar24,right, I'm sure you're very
familiar with that and it'sremarkable, the access to

(02:13:33):
information that you have.
And so, when you think aboutstarting an airline, what types
of jets are you typicallylooking at, based on the fleet
size and the capacity?
Are these smaller, regionalcarriers, or are you talking big
, wide body?
What sort of planes are youlooking at when you're starting
an airline?

Speaker 8 (02:13:53):
No, I tell people you probably don't want to start an
airline with a wide body.
Is it being done in this world?
Yes, it is.
We just watched an airlineglobal take off from Glasgow to
JFK.
Today they launched theirinaugural Wild to see a
double-decker 500-seat aircraftgo between Glasgow and JFK Never
thought I'd see it.
When I'm talking to people, Idefinitely determine the region

(02:14:16):
that they want to operate in andthen determine their actual
route structure, because theroute you don't want that larger
aircraft going on a marketthat's just not going to support
it.
So we're looking at yourstandard Airbus, your 737s a lot
of the time.
But sometimes we even getsmaller.
Some airlines just want to be asmall little regional and
that's fine, that's absolutely.
If that's what they want, thenwe'll get them to those steps.

Speaker 2 (02:14:39):
Yeah, it's interesting when you see
airlines and their journey, onethat I was going to call out for
our listeners.
I'm based in Toronto and Porteris a fantastic Canadian airline

(02:15:02):
and they started at the TorontoIsland Airport and so they only
had twin prop jets because theydidn't have jets.
They only had twin propairplanes because they weren't
allowed jets on the island hourduration.
But because of their success,they then actually bought a
whole fleet of jets and now theyfly out of the main Toronto
airport as well and they'vebuilt a really successful
airline.
So they found a unique nicheand one of the other things that
they do and I think this isjust so clever it would be two

(02:15:25):
rows of two, so it was never amiddle seat and they would offer
free wine and drinks, which wasa main pain point for travelers
as well.
So this was forcing Air Canadanow to also offer the same
option because they didn't wantto lose business to Porter.
But it's just interesting whenthese strategies around airlines
so I'm assuming that's alsopart of what you do is trying to

(02:15:45):
figure out what they're tryingto achieve the right jets or the
right planes, and then theservice and what do they want to
be known for as a brand.

Speaker 8 (02:15:57):
Yeah, so you mentioned porter.
It's a great example, I think.
Um porter started with the q400right and then they expanded to
the e190, e195, e2.
Now why did they choose thataircraft?
Well, mostly because they knewthat their range was going to be
in north america.
They didn't need anything superlong range, um, but they knew
they wanted to go the distanceand Embraer gave them that deal
that the A220 on Airbus couldn'tgive them.
Or perhaps they might've gonewith the former Bombardier CS

(02:16:22):
100, 300.
But the deal was with Embraerthat suited their needs for that
, and so Porter was able todetermine that.
That's something that isdefinitely looked at in the
startup is why this aircraftover that one.
These are two competitiveaircraft, but Porter was able to
get the Ember a lot quicker anddeploy it a lot sooner.

Speaker 2 (02:16:41):
That's fascinating.
I figured you knew your stuffso you can rhyme off the exact
makes and models.
One of the things I've come tounderstand, too, is that jet
fuel is one of the biggest costs, and so the more efficient
newer jets are just a lot lessexpensive to operate, and so a
lot of them can fly greaterdistances, opening up new routes

(02:17:01):
, to your point about the factthat all of a sudden you have a
Glasgow to New York route.
There's all these nicheopportunities that come up, just
speaking about airlines and theones that would be interesting
for people to pay attention to.
What are some of the other onesthat you take inspiration from,
uh, for your work?
I know Delta is one of the.
You know is renowned for theirinnovation and their company

(02:17:22):
culture and their leadership,and and they have raving fans
that just love Delta.
And my only frustration withDelta is they're not part of my
star Alliance.
They're like they don't.
They're not part of my staralliance, they're not part of
One World or Star Alliance.
They have their own loyaltyprogram, which I get, but I want
to be part of a global network,and so that's my one holdup.
Otherwise, I love Delta.
Tell us who do you payattention to and use as best in

(02:17:44):
class.

Speaker 8 (02:17:46):
This is a determination, I guess, by
looking at, of course, for thebig three technology-wise, a lot
of the time they roll out thesenew technologies.
I would say Delta and Unitedare leaders in the technology
space for airlines, so that'sdefinitely something to look at,
but Delta's strategy is verydifferent.

(02:18:07):
So you mentioned you don't havea global network.
You do.
Delta in Canada is WestJet.

Speaker 5 (02:18:13):
That's how they roll it out.

Speaker 8 (02:18:14):
That's their global strategy, whereas United has
that direct partnership with AirCanada.
So you see that rollout andit's two different strategies
that both are working.
And so you see that youobviously probably don't want to
do American in Canada, butthere's not really a true
partner there.

(02:18:34):
But that's something that I lookat is what partners can you
form with these new airlines andsee that Bermuda Air is a great
example out of Bermuda wherethey partnered quickly with
airlines and determined thatcapacity and they're building up
rather quickly and great.
They're doing a good job doingit.

Speaker 2 (02:18:48):
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, With the clients you'reworking with.
Just to give everyone an idea,what are the steps to engage and
partner with you.
So how are you finding clients?
Obviously, you're here at thisevent and I'm going to make sure
that people know how to connectwith you after this.
But, yeah, how do you actuallyget clients referred to you or

(02:19:09):
bring clients into your world?

Speaker 8 (02:19:12):
So a lot of the time at these conferences, people
will come up and talk to othersand say, hey, I'm an airline
founder.
And then I come up and talk tothem five steps behind and they
go, oh, have you met so-and-so,they want to find an airline.
And then I go over and talk tothem and actually see how
serious they are about it andwhat the reality of that is.
That's the primary way.

(02:19:32):
The second way is that I scourLinkedIn.
I'm a big LinkedIn user.
I think it's the best way outthere, because you start seeing
airlines first get foundeddigitally, where they've put out
their space, and they startbuilding this very uh, this
website that's very short and tothe point and cheap.
And then I say, okay, let's,let's figure out how serious

(02:19:52):
this is and let's build yousomething that we can actually
get off the ground.

Speaker 2 (02:19:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting.
So let's make sure everyonedoes know how to connect with
you and the website.
Obviously, linkedin, daltonLane, l-a-i-n-e.
But yeah, what are the otherways to find out more about you
guys?

Speaker 8 (02:20:13):
LanyabAviationcom.
That's another way to do that.

Speaker 2 (02:20:17):
We're going to have to spell that out exactly.

Speaker 8 (02:20:18):
Lanyab L-A-G-N-I-A-P-P-E.
I know it's a mouthful.

Speaker 2 (02:20:24):
Where does the name come from?

Speaker 8 (02:20:25):
It's a Creole French name, that's, to be able to take
you beyond and bring youbasically beyond service.

Speaker 2 (02:20:32):
Ah, cool, I like it, if you're receiving Lanyup
service.

Speaker 8 (02:20:35):
you're getting it beyond that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:20:38):
Okay, that makes total sense.
Now, I was struggling topronounce it when we first
started, but now that Iunderstand it it makes way more
sense.
So thanks for adding thatclarification in.
But yeah, back to you onobviously there's the website
and LinkedIn, Absolutely.

Speaker 8 (02:20:51):
Obviously, there's the website and LinkedIn,
absolutely, and those are thetwo primary ways that I operate
and I basically post all thetime on LinkedIn about different
industry topics and trends,definitely keeping in mind as
the industry changes, which isever-changing parts of the
industry being able to kind ofpost my opinion in a very

(02:21:13):
analytical way.
I don't like to comment a lot onoh, so-and-so is doing a great
job.
I say so-and-so is doing thisjob because of X, y and Z in the
numbers.
It's very straight to the point.
I'll try to keep the emotionout of it.

Speaker 2 (02:21:27):
Well, I'm definitely going to be following you on
LinkedIn.
I need to know more about theaviation space and I'm also very
keen to find out when youlaunch this latest venture that
clearly is under wraps at themoment.
I'll look forward to thatposting and announcement.
So I wish you continued success.
Great to meet you here at theconference and I look forward to
keeping in touch.
Dalton.

Speaker 8 (02:21:44):
Thanks for having me, Dan.

Speaker 2 (02:21:48):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Alex from
Sigma Software.
He actually did a presentationearlier today here at AFA.
He is the vice president there,but he specifically oversees
the aviation side, which isobviously the reason we're all
here.
I've got a lot of questions foryou, Alex.
First off, welcome to TravelTrends.
Great to have you on the show.

Speaker 3 (02:22:05):
Thank you so much for having me today.
It's actually our second timeduring World Aviation Festival,
after European One in Amsterdam.
Glad to be there.
Miami is good and amazing.
Amazing weather, amazing event.

Speaker 2 (02:22:18):
Totally Amazing people.
Yeah, and tell us where you'vetraveled from.

Speaker 3 (02:22:21):
I actually traveled from Poland and then to Zurich.
From Zurich it was almost 11hours flight, but it was very
convenient.
Yeah, it was a pleasure withSpiceAer.

Speaker 2 (02:22:35):
That's cool.
Tell us a little bit aboutSigma Software and where you
guys are based and how thiscompany came to be.
Sure, it was a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (02:22:41):
So actually, Sigma Software is a technology
services company, so wespecialize in systems
integration and custom andproduct development.
We are present in more than 18countries, 23 years on the
market and more than 2,000experts.

Speaker 2 (02:22:57):
Amazing and AFA.
Have you guys been involvedwith this organization before?
Given the fact they have eventsin Europe and Asia as well, is
this your first Americas event?

Speaker 3 (02:23:08):
Yeah, first Americas event.
We went to Amsterdam last yearin one of our portfolio product
company for ground handlers.
They visited also Asia event,and so we've been to three main
events now.

Speaker 2 (02:23:21):
So, yes, you have an idea what to expect by virtue of
being at the other event.
This is our very first AFA, asour listeners know, and we're
thrilled to be here.
As our listeners know, andwe're thrilled to be here, and
one of the things I wanted to dowith this special event
spotlight is bring together someof the industry leaders that
are shaping the future of traveland aviation specifically, and
also get a broad cross sectionof the people that come to this

(02:23:43):
event.
So, starting right there, whatactually?
I know you were speaking today,so obviously that was reason
enough for being here, but whatelse brought you to the event,
especially given what you guysdo and the types of
organizations that are here?

Speaker 3 (02:23:57):
Yes, that's actually a good question.
I mean, we work with aviationand personally it is my passion,
but we work more than 12 yearsnow, so we are proud to
cooperate with customers inEurope like Scandinavian
Airlines.
We also work with IATA and manyother clients, but you know,
north America was always ourfocus, so we definitely want to

(02:24:19):
expand.
We definitely have manytechnologies and many services
to provide here.
So basically, yeah, our mainidea is to expand network and as
well as to evolve is to expandnetwork and as well as to evolve
.
I mean, every event isdefinitely evolving and, yeah,
we definitely learn a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:24:38):
Well, tell us a bit about the talk that you did
earlier.
I'm keen to actually know whatit is you spoke about and what
some of the I guess thequestions that came up as part
of that, because I did a panelearlier and it's fascinating to
see how engaged people are.
So I'm also keen to know whatsome of the feedback was.
But tell us what you came in topresent on.

Speaker 3 (02:24:57):
Yeah, well, the panel was interesting and it was
about digital transformation.
Actually, this is our coreexpertise, I would say.
You know, aviation is quite aninteresting area because it used
to be a traditional industryand not so open to innovation.
So that's why it is very, veryinteresting for us, because,

(02:25:18):
being a services company, thereis a big benefit that you work
with many industries right and,for example, with AI we worked
even before it became mainstream.
So we have a lot of use casesthat we can actually reuse and
we can actually apply them toaviation as well.

Speaker 2 (02:25:34):
Interesting, and so today you're on a panel with a
couple of colleagues and I thinksome of the things you were
getting into were digitaltransformation is a big part of
my background, so I'm alwayskeen to understand what specific
areas of transformation and Ihave to ask you about AI.
Of course, we'll get there in amoment, but, yeah, what were
some of the main focuses todayand, I guess, what were some of
the things that the audienceswere most interested to hear

(02:25:57):
about?

Speaker 3 (02:25:59):
You know, there is always a topic about
cybersecurity, Because once youstart using AI and sharing data
and collecting data, it's alwaysa big topic because hackers are
targeting personal data frompassengers and airports and
airlines.
So there was a huge discussionaround it.
Another thing was actually realuse cases actually of AI that

(02:26:20):
works for airlines and airports.
That was actually interestingto also hear from colleagues.
And I think the third focus wasabout legacy systems.
A lot I would say almost all ofairlines are working with
legacy systems and that is whywe are here as well, because we
work a lot with legacy systems.

(02:26:41):
We can move them usingmiddleware to cloud and
step-by-step actually improvestheir systems.
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:26:57):
Thanks so much for joining us on this special event
spotlight of Travel Trends, allrecorded live at the Aviation
Festival Americas in Miami.
I'm certainly thrilled thatwe've been invited back for 2026
and look forward to meetingmore of you there and recording
more of these really interestinginterviews in a sector of the
industry that we have notfocused on yet.
At Travel Trends, and as youheard at the beginning, we are
going to do a special deep diveinto the world of aviation as
part of season six, whichlaunches in September, and we're

(02:27:20):
also going to have an aviationpanel as part of our AI summit
at the end of October, october28th and 29th.
You can register now for earlybird tickets on our website at
TravelTrendsPodcastcom.
And don't forget, we do postclips and highlights from all
these conversations on oursocial channels, so be sure to

(02:27:42):
check out at Travel TrendsPodcast on YouTube, linkedin and
Instagram.
Thanks again to the AFA teamand everyone that joined us for
these recordings.
It was a real pleasure to meetyou all and I certainly look
forward to seeing you again soon.
Until next time, safe travels.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2025

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2025

Stuff You Should Know