Event Spotlight: State of Business Travel in Canada 2025 with Global Business Travel Association (GBTA)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
1.43 trillion is what we spent as a global industry
back in 2019.
I think what we see now is thatwe are expecting, under that
forecast, to reach this year ahigh of 1.63 trillion US dollars
and that by 2028, we usually doa five-year forecast, including

(00:28):
the current year that we're in.
Last year it would have beenthrough 2028 that we would
surpass 2 trillion US dollars.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and today we have a
special event spotlight shotright here in my hometown, in
Toronto, actually at ExhibitionPlace in the Automotive Building
.
I have the opportunity to speakto three extraordinary industry
executives that came togetherfor the GBTA event here in
Toronto, canada, which is theGlobal Business Travel

(00:59):
Association, and the CEO,suzanne Newfung, who we'll be
speaking to, first flew in fromNew York to be here for this
event.
But GBTA Canada is part of thisglobal business and they have
this incredible event they puttogether that I had a chance to
experience for the very firsttime this year and, after these
interviews, I spent the nextcouple of days networking with
all of the executives that cametogether for this event and you

(01:22):
could just feel the energy andthe enthusiasm, because this is
where business travel executivesgather to discuss the latest
trends, challenges andopportunities within the
business travel sector.
And for many of our listeners,you may know that my background
and where I started in thetravel industry was on the
business travel side, working incorporate travel management, so
I was keen to ask Suzanne anumber of questions to bring me

(01:44):
up to speed on what's happeningin the business travel space.
They run major global events.
You'll hear about their nextone coming up in Denver that
will have about 6,000 attendees,but I was thrilled to meet
Suzanne, as well as Laura Purdy,who's the managing director of
Exhibition Place you'll get tohear from and then Heather Neal
as well, who is the managingdirector of Destination Toronto.

(02:06):
But to give you a little bit ofcontext to why GBTA was hosted
here in Toronto and somefascinating stats about this
city that I call home, is thatin 2023, the city of Toronto
generated about $9 billion fromvisitor spending, which was the
highest ever recorded for ourcity, and in 2024, we had over

(02:28):
2.7 million internationalvisitors, which was an increase
of about 7% from the previousyear, and those visitors
contributed more than $13billion to the local economy in
2024.
So you can see just howimportant major events and
meetings are to cities likeToronto but around the world.

(02:49):
This is why we do eventspotlights to highlight amazing
events like this and what bringspeople together.
Now there are many major eventsplanned for the city of Toronto
in 2025 and 2026 and we'llhighlight a few of those.
But GBTA was particularlyspecial because of the fact that
you are a business travelorganization and clearly you

(03:10):
lead the way in helping shapewhat's happening in this
industry with the majorsuppliers that I also had a
chance to meet in the exhibitionspace at the event.
So first we're going to speak toSuzanne and she's going to
share some fascinating researchon the world of business travel
and we get right into the latestdevelopments that are shaping
our industry.
And we also talk about thevital role that GBTA plays in

(03:33):
uniting business travelprofessionals worldwide and
really advancing our industry.
And then, when we speak toLaura, we'll get a much better
understanding of why we're hereat Exhibition Place, which is
Toronto's premier venue formajor global events like GBTA,
and she also discusses some ofthose operational and logistical
challenges to host an event ofthis scale and many that are

(03:56):
coming up, like the World Cup.
And then we talked to HeatherNeal about the city of Toronto
and the branding work that theyhave done to bring in incredible
events like GBTA.
So we get a betterunderstanding about Destination
Toronto and the role that theyplay with bringing GBTA and
other major tourism and businessevents to our city.

(04:17):
You're going to have some veryinteresting takeaways on the
role of events within the travelindustry as well as get a much
better understanding of whyToronto is truly a world-class
city, and certainly I got a lotof benefit of understanding the
future of business travel.
So we're going to share quite afew insights into how the
industry is adapting to thecurrent challenges and evolving

(04:40):
for the future.
So, whether you are a businesstravel professional or someone
who's just passionate about thetravel industry, like me, this
episode highlights theimportance of professional
organizations, events andconferences in shaping the
future of global business travel.
I hope you enjoy theseconversations and I look forward
to bringing you more eventspotlights over the course of
2025.

(05:01):
Thanks so much for joining uson this special event spotlight
of travel trends focused on theGBTA, hosted here in Toronto,
canada.
I hope you enjoyed theconversations we just had with
Suzanne Newfung, the CEO of GBTA, as well as Laura Purdy, the
Managing Director of ExhibitionPlace, and then we just finished

(05:21):
off with Heather Neal, theManaging Director of Destination
Toronto.
If you want more information onGBTA, just check it out at
gbtaorg.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
You'll be able to find information about their
work in North America,specifically in Canada, as well
as their business travel index,which you definitely need to
check out, and you heard me talkto Suzanne about that.
I'm going to be following thatclosely and I'm sure many of our
listeners will as well.
And don't forget, we do postclips and highlights on all of
our social channels.
For the last five years,suzanne, it's great to have you

(05:51):
here on YouTube and LinkedIn, sobe sure to look out for updates
there, and we send out amonthly newsletter.
So check outTravelTrendsPodcastcom and
subscribe significance on ourpodcast episodes and our travel
organizations that we're goingto talk a lot about.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Thanks so much for joining us on this special event
spotlight.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Thanks again to the destination toronto team for
bringing us in a little bitabout your background and how
you got a real pleasure to workwith you and the team.
I always love to travel to beback for gbta in 2020 and I went
into broadcasting for like asplit second um and then ended
up in e-commerce at a bigtelecom company in the United
States.
My husband's German.

(06:27):
We were living in Hawaii at thetime and I started with a phone
company in Hawaii which is like, do you need phones when you
live in Hawaii?
But that was a great conduit togetting then a corporate job in
e-commerce and moved us toConnecticut.
So I was in telecom for almost10 years 9-11 happened moved out
of telecom at that point andgot on with a company back then

(06:52):
called Travelocity Some of youmight know it and because I was
a leisure traveler, that made alot of sense.
I spent two years on theleisure side and then I had an
opportunity at the Sabre familyof companies to move into the
corporate travel world.
So for 20 some years I've beenin the corporate travel world
side of things.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's fascinating.
I mean, yeah, working atcompanies like Verizon and the
Travelocity which is Sabre, ofcourse and seeing your
background in travel is reallyimpressive.
Even Intuit as well, which isan amazing company, the fact you
were at the Sabre.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that was a divergence.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I left travel for another split second and went
into tax software and camerunning back to travel.
It's hard to leave travel onceyou're in it for being brought
into this event, which I'mthrilled to be here in Toronto
at the Exhibition Place andwe're going to be hearing from a
few executives on this podcastas a special edition broadcast
live from the event here inToronto.
But GBTA, the Global BusinessTravel Association give us a

(07:57):
little bit of background,suzanne, on what the GBTA is and
what you guys do.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, sure, often, when, for example, we're meeting
with policymakers for the firsttime, they think that we're the
private jet association.
We're not.
We're the ones who representthose suppliers and companies
with travel budgets who aresending people out on the road
on commercial aircraft all thetime, or in cars or trains.

(08:22):
So it's that kind of travel forwork that normal companies and
governments do just every day.
We have over 8,500 members.
We advocate for the trillionand a half US dollar global
business travel industry and wedeliver with our GBTA Foundation
, world-class education, events,advocacy and insights to a

(08:42):
growing global network of morethan really in our network, 28,.
Advocacy and insights to agrowing global network of more
than really in our network28,000 travel professionals and
a constituency base of what wenumber to be over 125,000.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's fascinating.
I mean, many of our listenersknow that my career in travel
started in corporate travelmanagement with Carlson Wagon
Lee, who I'm sure you'refamiliar with and building out
e-commerce tools.
So it's interesting.
I had a few similaritiesbetween our journey.
I had a radio program inuniversity Many of our listeners
don't know that, but that waswhere I first got a taste for
this.
But then it was corporatetravel.
Management is where I cut myteeth in the travel industry,

(09:13):
developing e-commerce bookingtools for corporate travel,
which is such a huge part of thetravel industry.
But very few people understandcorporate travel, and one of the
reasons I was keen to be herefor this event and to be
involved with GPTA is the factthat business travel is also
going through a renaissance inthe last few years and there's
companies like Navon Kayak forBusiness.
Both of the executives havebeen on this podcast before, and

(09:37):
so I was really keen to be hereto speak to you and to get an
understanding of what'shappening in corporate travel in
2025.
But before we get into that,let's tell everyone why we're
here at this event and a littlebit of an overview of what's
happening here in Toronto.
So tell us about the event thatwe've all come together for,
that you've flown in from NewYork for, and what to expect

(09:57):
over the next couple of days.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Sure, so we're expecting over 650 attendees
from nine countries, largelyCanada, but we have others.
It's really an internationalconference.
It's a buy and supplyenvironment, so, along with a
trade show and educationsessions, there are over almost
130 buyer companies representedhere.

(10:19):
We have 62 trade showexhibitors that are here as well
for an active commercialdiscussions and introductions,
and the education sessions andmain stages are really about
thought leadership, along withbest practices and what should
someone who's spending time andtreasure to be here, what can
they take home with them totheir corporation or their

(10:39):
organization?
We have government travelmanagers here as well, so it
really covers the gamut.
We have government travelmanagers here as well, so it
really covers the gamut.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, I've been looking at the program over the
last couple of days and justpreparing for the interviews and
the discussions.
I've been looking forward tohaving this one in particular
because obviously it really setsthe stage for the next few days
of the event and for me to beable to speak to the CEO of GBTA
, as we're going to speak to thehead of Exhibition Place and
Destination Toronto and have afew of the great organizations
that come together for thisevent.

(11:05):
But clearly, it's the bestopportunity to start and speak
to you, given you're really kindof what brings us all together
for this event.
And the one thing I wanted toask you when I was looking at
the website and I wanted ourlisteners to understand, is that
who comes to this type of event?
You mentioned, obviously, thatthere's nearly 700 attendees
from nine countries.
But in terms of there's nearly700 attendees from nine

(11:26):
countries, but in terms ofbuyers, who are they?
Yeah, who are they Exactly?
So tell us a little bit more sothat people listening to this
will think, man, I missed anopportunity, I really need to go
next year.
So who does this event attract?

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, sure.
So people with the title ofCorporate Travel Manager are the
buy side and they may be for asmaller company, an office
manager, they might be the EAfor the CEO of a growing startup
, and then, on the supply side,they might be corporate sales,
they might be product leaders,they might be senior leaders of

(11:59):
those companies who are here tosee their customers, who are
amongst both the partners andthe buy side of our industry.
So it can be a number of people.
Sometimes they're compliancepeople, sometimes they're HR
people, who are here becausethey're part of the mobility
team or the decision makers andthey're in charge of safety and

(12:20):
risk at their company.
And travel is that one placewhere it all comes together?

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, got it.
No, that makes total sense, forthose people who are in the
corporate travel managementecosystem already know the
significance and the importanceof events like these, because
this is where as you experiencethis as well, working at
Travelocity once there wasonline travel agencies, there
was this concern of what wasgoing to happen to corporate
travel management solutions,because many of them made good

(12:46):
revenue from airline tickets andall of a sudden that
disappeared and all of a suddenthere was little or no
commission in selling airlinetickets, and then the focus had
to be on accommodation and otherverticals.
And then, once the onlinetravel agencies came along, a
lot of people that were workinginside corporate offices started
booking their own travel andstarted venturing out to try and
do their work independently.

(13:07):
And what I find fascinatingwhen you look at an organization
this is really for ourlisteners when they think about
GBTA and the 9,000 members andthe 28,000 travel professionals
is that they're managing $345billion worth of spending.
And that's just staggering whenyou and that's just North
America.
There you go.

(13:27):
Well, and I think the closestcomparison on our show we had
Matthew Upchurch from Virtuosoand they have 5,000 people come
together at an event 25,000, butthey do about $30 billion all
in aggregate, and this is 10Xthat amount, because obviously
that's all leisure and it justshows you how big the corporate
travel management space is.
So hopefully we've set thestage there for anyone that is
interested in getting into thisspace.

(13:48):
So tell us a little bit moreabout we're sitting here
together on day one of thisconference.
Tell everyone a little bitabout what's going to happen
over the next few days, becauseI've looked at the program.
You've got some amazingspeakers.
You've obviously got all theexhibitors here, but what are
some of the highlights that youplan for with this event each
year?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yes, certainly, along with talking about the state of
the industry itself, we'll betalking about some of the things
that are happening acrosspolicy, world and economics,
which is always impactful forcorporate travel budgets.
We'll be doing a lot of in theEd Sessions.
Specifically, there'll be a lotof things about best practices,
because everybody's here apractitioner, but there's also

(14:24):
some secret sauces within thebuy side, where they're only
going to be meeting together,and the supply side, where only
they will be meeting together asa way for them to juice up
their skills when they go backhome.
There's lots of networkingopportunities for people to meet
new people that they don't know, because our industry is always
changing and I think meetingfive or 10 new people at one of

(14:46):
these events is a really goodoutcome and you stay in touch
with them and you go home andyou've got now your new network.
And because we're a memberorganization, I think there's a
lot for us as we think aboutpeople and planet as well, and
so we're talking about peopleand planet as well, and how
corporate travel in and ofitself can have a huge impact on
the adoption of sustainablesolutions and the way that we

(15:10):
care about our people whenthey're on the road as well.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well, of course people are going to be looking
and I've mentioned this in theintroduction gbtaorg.
So there's this event inToronto, but there's many events
you run and there's also givenyour membership base.
Tell us a little bit about someof the other what it takes to
become a member, what's involvedin that and in some of the I
know you guys have a podcast.
I was checking that out inadvance as well the Business of

(15:34):
Travel.
Yeah, well, exactly, veryappropriately named.
So yeah, tell us a little bitabout becoming a member and what
some of the benefits are.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, sure, we're open to anybody anywhere who is
in a travel-related professionand is curious or interested or
directly related to corporatetravel.
It is an individual membership,which is not always the case in
trade associations.
It's not a company membership,so you don't need to go to your

(16:02):
company and say, hey, I needthousands of dollars to join.
It's affordable for anindividual basis.
There is an opportunity thenfor members to become engaged,
to volunteer, either at eventslike this or on committees that
we have, which are very subject,specific, could be risk.
It could be meetings and events, it could be related to
aviation or accommodation, andthat is a way to also then start

(16:27):
to mentor others, and I thinkthat's where you might be new at
some point, but eventuallyyou're going to be an expert at
what you do, and we always lovewhen members become mentors to
others as part of their journeyhere.
So there's newbies and there'sold experts like me and
practitioners in general whomight have a really specific
area of expertise that we canhone in on.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, that's one of the things I was impressed with
is the professional developmenttools that GBTA offers, and the
reason I call that out isbecause, having come up in the
industry, there wasn't theseresources available 20, 25 years
ago, and I certainly would havenot only benefited from having
access to these resources, buteven the events where you bring
people together so you cannetwork and learn from each
other and then meet otherpartners.

(17:10):
So there's so much on offer asI've come to understand more
about GBTA.
The other thing I wanted to askyou, too, is when I think about
partnerships, and one of thethings that drives many
organizations beyond the membersis the partners that you have,
and so even when I registeredearlier today, you've got some
very high profile partners.

(17:31):
Clearly there's such asignificant volume of business.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople partner with GBTA and
come to an event and have anexhibit.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, sure, I think, the supply side.
We're nowhere without thesuppliers.
We don't necessarily givemembers a free ride on most
things, but we certainly get alot of our juice from suppliers,
who make it possible for us toput on lots of education and
lots of networking capabilities.
The partners come from theaviation hotel, the car rental,

(18:05):
car share, ride share all theway through to that TMC channel
that you had talked about.
Cwt is part of what we calltravel management companies.
They used to be travel agencies.
They sort of left the agencyworld and became management
companies in a true sense of theword.
So there's the TMC category andthen there's payments and

(18:27):
online booking tools, and all ofthose are part of that
ecosystem that find a place here.
I think what we're alsodefinitely involved with is that
meeting space.
So meetings are back post COVIDand the ones who destinations,
but also the hotels and othermeeting locations where those
events and meetings can happen,are definitely a part of that

(18:49):
ecosystem as well and they needto get the word out.
They also need to meet theircustomers but build new business
as well, and so we create thatopportunity for them.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Well, the other thing I found interesting, too, is,
obviously you do a lot of workwith government organizations,
so you work on mobility, asyou've mentioned.
You have government relationsworking on policies all these
things that are incrediblyimportant and most B2C travelers
obviously these are the thingsthat you rely on your travel
advisor, your travel agent, justto make sure these things are
taken care of for you.

(19:19):
One of the other ones thatstood out to me that you do work
in is sustainability, and so Iwanted to call that out, because
I'm always keen to ask any ofour guests and this is very much
to your point about uh, postpandemic, uh, travel is back
post pandemic, which is great,and I think one of the things
that we've certainly seen isthat people have become more
conscientious of their impact,and so I just wanted to talk

(19:41):
about a few of the initiativesthat you have on around
sustainability, as people makedecisions about which
conferences to go to and whichpartners to support.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you look at sustainability
and some of the initiatives thatyou guys have underway.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, it might seem like we're talking out of both
sides of our mouth when we talkabout sustainability and
corporate travel, because Ithink in the midst of COVID
there was a lot of, I would say,flight shaming, mainly for
travel for work, and if weremember what was happening
during the pandemic, essentialtravel was all travel for work.

(20:15):
So all of that important travelwas really essentially getting
PPE and other things that wedon't even remember anymore
because our memory is thankfullyshort.
We've blocked a lot of that out.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
But that was essential and still is essential
.
Travel, I think what happenedin that process and I got to my
role in February of 2021.
So the pandemic was already ayear old and we thought it was
almost over.
It wasn't almost over, we stillhad a ways to go.
All of a sudden, it raged backagain, almost over.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
We still had a ways to go.
All of a sudden it raged backagain.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
We still had some more to go.
But what we learned in thatprocess that a trillion and a
half dollars US dollars in spendis an awful lot of piggy bank
or checkbook to play with whenan industry needs to reinvent
itself.
And talking with policymakersin Europe and the United States

(21:07):
and in Canada at that point,policymakers wanted to make sure
that humans could still travel.
It was very important duringthat period of time that nobody
could travel, that we realizedwhat we had lost, and
policymakers across the boardwere not ready.
Despite some of the flightshaming that was happening in
the media, they were not readyto say travel for work is

(21:29):
something we don't support.
They do support it.
And so how could we make thistrillion and a half US dollars
in spend be a force for good inchanging things?
So the procurement side ofcorporate travel, which is a
huge component that's also atitle that's here.
Travel procurement is a bytitle.
They are looking forsustainable solutions, and so in

(21:53):
two and a half almost threeyears ago now, we reseated.
We set up our GBTA Foundation,which had been put to rest long
before COVID, and we set it upunder a people and planet
priority premise a lot of P'sthere the idea being that if we
can organize ourselves in thatkind of procurement organization

(22:17):
setup, we can help drive moresustainable solutions faster,
and some categories can be mademore sustainable faster.
Some it will take decades.
Aviation is in the future.
We don't have enoughsustainable aviation fuel and
some other things that are theearly building blocks of

(22:37):
sustainable aviation.
Hydrogen even further down theroad, but in brick-and-mortar
locations there are moreaccessible solutions already.
And what we also learned is thatprocurement managers were
asking a lot of questions, butthey were asking questions in
hundreds of different ways andthe suppliers were actually
becoming inundated by thisonslaught of questions that they

(23:01):
didn't have the people anymoreto answer all of these.
So what we did with our earlyteam it's gotten a little bigger
, but not much is to createorganized principles around
sustainable procurementstandards what are the questions
to ask, and have suppliers alsobe part of that, so that they
also are knowing what will beasked and they can already

(23:22):
prepare their teams on how toanswer those questions.
The other side of it is that wealso have to let them know
those who don't know where tostart.
Where do you start when you'retrying to make your program more
sustainable?
And so we started with someeducation.
We've started with some toolsfor how to measure where you're
at in your journey, and all ofthose things whether it's from a

(23:45):
national or a globalperspective now are things that
our members can take advantageof.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, that's great.
I was really keen to ask youthat because, certainly in
preparation, looking at thepriorities, for where you
advocate, certainly mobility,which is very important, and we
can talk about that as wellbecause I think that there's a
more pressing need, more thanever, of a realization that you
know it's like 10% of thepopulation is traveling with
disabilities and there's a lotof areas that they're just ways

(24:11):
they can't travel that need tobe addressed and and a lot of
companies are now doing thatbecause there's an economic
incentive, they realize there'sa business opportunity there and
infrastructure, obviously, butpromoting sustainable business
travel.
When I worked at Lonely Planet15, 20 years ago, we had carbon
offsets for our flights and Iwas just at a conference

(24:32):
recently in Mobile Alabama withthe Educational Travel
Consortium and my friend,shannon Stoll got up on stage,
who runs the Adventure Traveland Trade Association, and said
how many people offset theirflights and two people lifted
their hands.
And here we are, that manyyears later, and it really
hasn't made any substantialimpact.
But what we're seeing,post-pandemic, is that when

(24:53):
people are presented with theoptions, because price is always
going to be a key determination, but if you present the options
as like a bookingcom does now,where you give sustainable
options and put it as a factorin decision-making, people will
make that decision.
They will make that consciouschoice to choose.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Well and just think about it when a company makes it
their policy.
Now you've got thousands oftravelers that are doing the
right thing, and I think that'sagain is that extra juice that
corporate travel can give to theindustry when it comes to
choice.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, for sure.
Now, if we think aboutcorporate travel management as
we sit here together in 2025 andlook at the industry because
certainly what I'm keen to askyou about is the overall health
of the industry, where we areand where we're headed.
But let's start a little bitwith where we find ourselves in
the middle of 2025 when it comesto business travel.

(25:43):
Obviously, we shared somenumbers there that are very
substantial, but obviously,given those huge numbers, they
do fluctuate based on one of thethings that people thought.
For sure, there was a fewpeople that ruled out business
travel.
Even Bill Gates was one of them.
There's some funny videos nowhe still does.
That's so funny, it just doesn'tage well.
It's just like you don't needto go to a meet in person.
You can just do it.
Virtually a hologram.

(26:03):
But reality is we're human.
As creatures, we want to beface-to-face we want to be in
person.
We're social.
We're social Exactly.
Yeah, you want to do each otherand there's just a connection
that happens that just can't bereplaced on a screen.
And so we had this the chairmanof the travel corporation where
I worked for many years.

(26:23):
He had this line, which wasnever shirk a journey, like
anytime.
You just need to get on aflight and get there to meet
with your client, meet with yourcustomer, and it just had to be
your priority, which is, Ithink, probably we have that in
common for sure.
And so a lot of peoplepredicted corporate travel's
demise.
And then here we are in 2025and the business has rebounded
very strong.
But tell us exactly where youfind ourselves three years

(26:47):
post-pandemic, and then we'lltalk about where we're headed,
because I think we're startingto hit a little bit of choppy
waters.
For the first time sincepost-COVID, we had this revenge
travel, but a lot of that wasleisure.
But one of the big trends thatI'm sure you have a lot to say
on is this what was calledbleasure.
Nobody liked that term.
I call it blended.
Yes, exactly that is the muchbetter way to describe it is

(27:07):
blended travel People.
Now they work from home, theytravel for work, and when they
travel for work, they also tackon a few days of holiday, and
it's a new lifestyle.
So tell us, Suzanne, give us abit of an overview of how
business travel is faring inmid-2025.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, sure, from our reckoning and this is from our
business travel index outlookthat we released last July we're
in the process of redoing itnow, but we're still at least
two to three months away fromreleasing the 2025 version.
Away from releasing the 2025version, we predicted and I'm
pretty sure this was true thatwe had surpassed 2019 spend

(27:53):
levels in 2024.
And that is at about thetrillion and a half level.
A little below 1.43 trillion iswhat we spent as a global
industry back in 2019.
I think what we see now is thatwe are expecting, under that
forecast, to reach this year ahigh of 1.63 trillion US dollars
and that by 2028, we usually doa five-year forecast, including

(28:18):
the current year that we're inLast year it would have been
through 2028, we usually do afive-year forecast, including
the current year that we're in.
Last year it would have beenthrough 2028 that we would
surpass $2 trillion, and so thetrajectory was strong.
Economy looked good.
Regionally in North America, wewere at about last year at
about $400 billion, that's US,canada and Mexico and nationally

(28:38):
if I could dive into someCanada.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, I'm really keen .
Since we're here in Toronto, Iwanted to know how does Canada
and the US compare for businesstravel?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
So US is number two, just neck and neck with China.
China US make up almost 50% ofworld's global corporate travel,
but Canada is number 13,.
Lucky number 13.
Corporate travel, but Canada isnumber 13, lucky number 13, was
spending last year at about26.3 billion USD, or 36 and a
half billion Canadian.

(29:05):
So that gives you an idea ofhow important this industry is
for Canada as well.
And that 24 versus 23 was agrowth rate of 15%, so it was
actually exceeding the growthrate of the US and actually
global of 2024, which we weresaying would be about 11%.
So Canada should have had areally good year last year.

(29:28):
What we also see is that,looking ahead this year, there
may be some bumps ahead, butwe're anticipating that Canada's
corporate travel will rise to43 billion Canadian, or almost
an 18% increase over last year.
And that could still hold true,because I think what I've been
learning by traveling the worlda bit the first half of this

(29:48):
year is that even with economicuncertainty, especially with
trade wars, that kind of thingthat we're all reading about is
producers need markets andmarkets need customers, and, as
you think about partners and thekinds of things that are
uncertain in this day and age,it may actually drive more

(30:10):
travel in the short term.
When businesses are looking fortheir next great partner, their
next great market, they need togo there and make sure that
they're working things out.
It's really hard to have tradenegotiations through video
screens and if you're meetingsomeone new and building
something brand new, even moreimportant, that you're getting

(30:31):
on the road and doing that.
I also think it may beinteresting for your listeners
to know that the top industriesthat were fueling no pun
intended travel, business travellast year in Canada were real
estate, arts and entertainment,construction and professional
slash, scientific, and all ofthose were somewhere between 19

(30:53):
and 20 percent growth year overyear.
So some of those may actuallybe terrafe mutant for a while.
So I think, if you think aboutthat, the health of, I think,
the Canadian business travelmarket is probably okay.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And what about oil and gas and people traveling to
those?
Is it even rank or no?
It didn't.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
I don't have that in front of me, but I can certainly
look that up.
I think there's certainly withchanging trends there.
I think there's lots of thatmight actually be going in favor
of oil and gas at the moment,depending on where you sit.
And we know that some of theexploration and some of the
developments around the world, alot of that is global travel as
well.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
For sure.
Now, it's just interestingtiming because I flew back from
Moncton, new Brunswick lastnight and I was telling Suzanne,
just before we startedrecording, that my son is going
to the aviation program there.
That's his intention.
He wants to be a pilot.
Many of our listeners know thatwe're a family of avid
travelers and our sons alwayswanted to be a pilot and so, one
of the stats, I was also keento share with him some of the

(31:49):
aviation stats and when youmentioned about aviation, just
how significant that is, becauseyou need to get to any of these
cities for conferences, forwork functions.
But the thing I always see whenI'm traveling is people that
are headed back to the oil patchand they're always flying first
class, and so it always standsout that there is a big industry
there of trying to get theseworkers to and from their

(32:11):
various operations.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
And it's a unique kind of business travel, if I
think about it.
So we have a specialty areawith some committee work
happening and an annual eventthat's called Project Crew and
Teams Travel, and it's one ofthe outlier use cases.
If you will of you can't mostof those people can't just open
an online booking tool at theircompanies and say, oh, I think

(32:33):
I'll go here today and meetcompany X.
If you're traveling with a crew, all of that has to be
organized quite centrally, andaviation crews do it, rail crews
do it, oil patch crews do it,and there's a number of
industries that actually havethat as their main kind of
travel for work.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Interesting.
Another thing I wanted to askyou too is this question of
small to medium enterprises SMEsas sometimes they get referred
to by sales teams or largerenterprise organizations.
So when you mention thosenumbers, is there a breakdown
between large corporate and thensmall to medium-sized business,
and I guess I'm just genuinelycurious to know the breakdown

(33:14):
between the two.
And then, maybe, where you'reseeing growth from?
Is the small to medium-sizedbusinesses starting to travel
more and invest in travel?
One of the things, suzanne,you'll appreciate this being in
this space One of my colleaguesmany years ago at Carlson
Wagonley.
She used to invest in companiesthat were spending more on
travel that quarter.
This was her clever and I'mjust sharing this as a financial

(33:35):
investing hack for those of youwho listen to this.
We have a lot of investorslistening to this podcast, I'm
sure, but anyway, she used tolook at those numbers and figure
out if you're making a lot ofsales calls and your business
travel expenditure was up, thenchances are you're going to be
announcing the next quarteryou've closed some big deals,
and it was a real clever waywithout-.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Without insider trading, exactly.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Being very careful of that Exactly, but just try to
figure out if there's morebusiness travel happening.
So the reason I actuallyspecifically mentioned that is
because some of the insightsyou'll have, like what you're
seeing in terms of businesstravel, will affect the wider
economy later, and that's whereI want to get into next, about
where we're headed and some ofthe things that we're seeing,

(34:14):
how best to prepare.
But just before we segue intothat, what would be the best way
to kind of break down largeenterprise versus small to
medium business in corporatetraveling?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, certainly medium enterprise and large
business would be in thattrillion and a half that I
talked about.
The smaller the company, theless managed their travel
program is, and we don't measurethat.
So they're probably booking ontheir own or they have an
unmanaged travel program, and Ioften get asked what's the value
of a managed travel program?
And I often get asked what'sthe value of a managed travel

(34:41):
program and A if your spend isincreasing.
You need to manage your spendand you need to make sure that
productivity is matching whatyou're spending and you're
getting the value out of that.
But it also is measured in.
If you need to find your peopleand you don't know where your
people are because there's moreweather incidences or there's
something else that's happeningaround the world or you're in an
industry that is fraught withsome risk, you can't afford not

(35:04):
to have a managed travel program.
And so I think the growingcompanies that are making their
way through there's oftensomebody at some point that says
, well, we just broke a milliondollars in travel spend.
I think we need to start tomanage it now, and then they
start looking for theprofessional that can help them
do that.
So I think they're connected.
But the SME world is feederinto the big practitioners that

(35:26):
show up at our events around theworld, and it depends on the
region you're in.
But I think the opportunitysuppliers love to talk to
growing SME companies becausethat's where they can provide
the most value as well.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, it's really interesting you mentioned that,
I mean when the CEO of Navon wason our program and we also had
the head of Kayak for businessand it's really interesting that
they actually make a priorityof trying to connect with fast
growing startups.
Because when you look at someof the technology companies, of
course, like a company likeShopify, to mention some place
connected to Toronto and Canadawhen you think about getting

(35:59):
access to that account andseeing that business explode in
scale, that's a corporate travelaccount you want.
And then even those companieswhen they're looking at
different corporate travelmanagement partners, when
they're reassessing based ontheir spend.
This is where theseforward-thinking organizations
like a Kayaker Navon want toattract those types of clients.
So I have one other question,though, for you, suzanne, before
we start talking about thefuture.

(36:21):
You mentioned the BTI data, thebusiness travel intelligence.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthe reports that you generate,
because I'm always keen to readthese as well, and one of the
new things that we're doing withTravel Trends is doing a
monthly snapshot of what'shappening in the travel industry
.
We have, of course, this TravelTrends podcast.
A lot of our listeners haveasked us to make it even more

(36:41):
topical and timely, especiallyas we hit these choppy waters,
and they're very keen to knowmore than ever what some of the
signals they should be payingattention to.
And so I wanted just to go backto that for a moment so that,
if you could share with us thetypes of reports that you
generate as an organization,explain a little bit more about
BTI specifically.
I know you mentioned there's anew one coming up.

(37:01):
If you wouldn't mind as well,suzanne, just tell us some of
the trends that you're seeingfrom those, like some of the
insights that you're generatingfrom those reports that you've
already been showcasing andhighlighting.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Oh yeah, sure, Our BTI is actually that annual
forecast that covers 72countries and 44 industries.
We also this is going to be ourthird year where we also survey
over 4,000 business travelersfrom around the world as part of
that project, because,ultimately, the real stakeholder
of our industry are thetravelers themselves and we need

(37:33):
to know what they're doing interms of preferences, behaviors
and spending.
And so that BTI is our annualgift to the industry, if you
will, for where we thinkbusiness travel is going.
It's based on prior yeareconometric data.
Heavily heavily we have aneconomist do it for us, but what
we do in between, then, is dosentiment polling and other

(37:57):
kinds of research that tells uswhat for one specific topic or
for a broad level of topics.
And I think what's happeningnow, certainly with with what we
have, uh, happening with interms of tariffs, especially
with the us related deportationsor border rejections and so
called travel bans that might betargeting certain travelers

(38:19):
from specific countries soonJust in April, we conducted a
sentiment poll among businesstravel professionals worldwide
about the projected impact ofwhat some of those actions could
mean and what it means to ourindustry as a result.
So, to share some of thoseinsights that I'll be sharing
this week.
The biggest insight that weuncovered is that, on a global

(38:41):
basis, almost a third of travelmanagers or procurement managers
anticipate business travelvolume and spend will decrease
amidst these recent USgovernment actions, and not just
decrease but decrease by anaverage of 20 to 21 percent.
And so, if we have our crystalball out there, that is.
And then there's another bigsegment that is uncertain.

(39:03):
They're not even sure enough tosay it'll decrease or increase
or stay the same.
About half say nothing willchange or it'll increase, but
the other half is eitheruncertain or very pessimistic.
The other group that wesurveyed were global travel
suppliers, like the TMCs youmentioned, or suppliers on the
air car hotel side, or the techcompanies that support them, and

(39:25):
37% of them expect there to bea revenue decrease as a result,
and I think the average issomething like 18% that they
expect their revenue to decrease.
So that 18% to 21%, it's prettyconsistent.
So that 18% to 21%, it's prettyconsistent.
But suppliers in general are alittle bit pessimistic about
what's happening as well.

(39:54):
In terms of Canadian data.
Twice as many Canadian buyersare concerned and say that their
volumes will decrease, and 53%say that their spending will
decrease this year as a resultof that.
So cross-border travelcertainly is one of those
concerns and overall, canadiansin general know an awful lot of
people personally that have beenaffected by some of these

(40:15):
latest policy actions.
So I think it's Canadian buyersare more likely to have revised
their travel policies and tohave canceled, relocated or
pulled employee meetings frommeetings in the US as a result
of some of this.
I think that's really, reallycompelling for us to be aware of
and certainly something thatgives us a lot of energy when we

(40:37):
think about what we're puttingtogether for our own legislative
events around the world and howwe're advocating for the right
policy to make sure that thismobility, right to travel, is
something that's not taken awayfrom us.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I couldn't agree withyou on many of the points you
just shared, and the reason Iwanted to ask about some of the
data and the insights is because, when we get into these
uncertain times, everyone'slooking to understand what's
happening in the market and whatthey should be paying attention
to, and so that's why I wantedeveryone to understand what
reports are available and thenalso to get into some of this
actual real world scenario ofhow travel is being impacted

(41:15):
already and what some of yourprojections are, which I kindly
appreciate you sharing with us,because obviously we need to be
eyes wide open to these.
As an industry, travel goesfrom crisis to crisis, as you're
well aware.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
We have a great graph to share with you oh, is that
perfect?

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Well, I joined the travel industry right after 9-11
.
And this is where there was aprediction at that point that
the travel industry had seen itsbest times and that it was
going to take years to recover.
And travel is so resilient andthis is one of the things I'm
always optimistic about thetravel industry is, whenever we
hit headwinds, travelers do comeback.
I mean, I stood in my office inLA what five years ago during

(41:52):
the, when the pandemic started,and I've been living in it.
So I I love the States, I loveliving in the US.
I'm based in Canada.
This is where it's importantfor me and our listeners to know
that, because I think I lovetraveling to the US and I love
Americans coming to Canada.
I certainly believe in openborders safe, secure, but also
open borders for trade and forcommerce, and especially the

(42:15):
movement of people to be able toconduct business and go to
meetings the movement of peopleto be able to conduct business
and go to meetings.
But what I was going to say toyou, suzanne, is that when I
stood in my office and read areport that said that and this
is early 2020, after thepandemic, this is mid-2020, it
was going to take 10 years forthe industry to come back, if it
ever did at all.
And again, I looked out thewindow thinking to myself what

(42:39):
is a more realistic scenario?
And you just highlighted, in2024, the business travel
overcame the numbers in 2019.
And we started seeing that 2022was a good year, 23.
And most industries like takethe cruise industry they were
having record years in 23 and 24.
And most of them are projectingconsiderable growth for the
next five years.
So we were on this incrediblysuccessful trajectory with

(43:02):
travel and all of a sudden now,tariffs and trade.
And so one of the things I justwanted to share with all of our
listeners on either side of theUS-Canadian border, one of the
episodes we were doing is calledElbows Up, arms Open.
So there's a big thing aboutelbows up here, as many
Canadians know the term fromhockey.
As you know, you get into thecorner and you need to put your
elbows up, so Canada's elbows upfor tariffs, but when it comes

(43:25):
to Americans traveling to Canadaand vice versa, arms open.
Because, speaking to otherCanadians that work in the
tourism industry, the reality is, if Americans stop coming to
Canada, it could significantlyimpact our economy, and the same
is already happening on the USside, as you well know, that
Canadians are not traveling orholding back for some of the
reasons you've noted, and it'shaving a really negative impact

(43:46):
on a number of businesses.
So I hope that, throughnegotiation and compromise and
good faith, we overcome thistogether and find a positive
path forward.
But tell us a little bit more,suzanne, about how you see the
rest of 2025 playing out, givenall of those headwinds.
What are some of the thingsyou're doing to advocate on
behalf of business travelcross-border and international

(44:10):
and what are some of the thingsthat you're encouraging
travelers to pay attention to?
I'll give one great example, ifyou wouldn't mind, suzanne you
recently and this came to myinbox yesterday the GBTA sent an
article to help peopleunderstand about crossing the
border, to makes you moreconfident taking that business
trip, especially if you work inHR or you have sensitive data.

(44:31):
So I think this is where you,as an organization, clearly are
doing a great job of reassuringpeople, providing them the right
information.
You can't necessarily changethe policy, but you can at least
educate and inform people.

(44:52):
So yeah, if you wouldn't mind,tell us a little bit about some
of the things you're doing andhow you see the next six months
in this industry.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yes, certainly it's about educating our members so
they can educate theirconstituencies, because they all
represent thousands oftravelers in most cases.
I think what we will continueto advocate for and it's
interesting that it didn'tchange our top three things that
we're for it just createsnuance for what level of detail
we have to go into that.

(45:20):
We didn't have to before, so,uh, we do.
We hold an annual event in theunited states in washington dc.
That's coming up in june.
It's our annual legislativefly-in and certainly what we'll
be talking about.
There are some of the impactsthat we've seen, as well as what
we need from policymakers ingeneral and again, we're
nonpartisan.
It's really meant to be.

(45:41):
Here's this industry and in mostcases I think it's the case in
Canada as well.
Many lawmakers are businesstravelers.
They have to get to Ottawa,they have to get to Washington.
They might be weekly travelersif they're commuting.
So I think it hits home forthem once they realize what we
stand for commuting.
So I think it hits home forthem once they realize what we

(46:01):
stand for we spent a few days inBrussels in March as well in a
similar fashion that therearen't retaliatory kind of
impacts as well closing bordersand other things.
I think it's interesting thatit's a big anniversary the 40th
anniversary of the Schengen thissummer.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Oh, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
And, if anything, business travelers benefit the
most.
If you're crossing a fewborders, which is easy to do in
Europe on a train on a given day, you don't get stopped at the
border.
In most cases where you get togo one meeting here, you go to
your next one, you go on, and Ithink that's a great example of
what the ease of border crossingin a safe and appropriate way.

(46:37):
I think that has certainlyhelped the business travel
industry as well.
And then there's the otherpiece that I said before, which
is that in times of uncertainty,it may actually drive more
business travel in the shortterm.
What we are concerned about isthat if it does drive or result
in a recession, then wecertainly all across the board

(46:57):
in many countries have to worryabout the kind of unintended
consequences, and certainlybusiness travel would be a
casualty of that.
We saw that in 2008, 2009.
When I was a travel supplier,we certainly saw that reaction
happening as well.
But our industry, as you said,is very resilient.
It's one of those.
That and that chart that Irefer to has a few little cliffs

(47:20):
on it.
No cliff as big as the pandemiccliff that we had in 2020.
But remember that came off withthe best first quarter that the
industry had ever had.
First quarter of 2020 wasrecord-breaking.
So I think, no matter whatcomes in front of us, I think
what we also see is that whendiplomatic travel goes down,

(47:42):
diplomacy stops.
And so there's something to besaid.
Face-to-face meetings, I think,are really important, and
diplomatic travel is travel forwork as well.
As we think about that goingforward, I think there's no time
like the present for us to bethinking about what rising costs
have to do with budgets, is notime like the present for us to
be thinking about what risingcosts have to do with budgets,
and that it's even moreimportant to have someone with

(48:04):
either certification orprofessional background on your
team to be able to make surethat you've got your travel
program in the right hands andyou can decide where and how if
you have to make trade-offs andwhat that means, because there
is a direct correlation to salesand travel in good times, and
there's definitely one of thosecorrelations in bad times as

(48:24):
well.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
For sure, and this is where your role becomes that
much more important during thesetimes, not only because of the
reports that you generate andthe education and information
that you also share, but alsopreparing for travel to come
back again.
I mean, this is where you know,even if there is a short-term
impact and hopefully it isexactly that that there is you
know some choppy waters ahead,but ultimately the global

(48:49):
economy and this is you know.
You look at examples like Brexitand then look at you just
described Schengen and theEuropean Union.
I was born in the UK and Istill I've got my UK passport no
longer gives me the privilegesand opportunities my son wanted
to work all across Europe andthis is where I think there is
also going to be a realizationabout just how important the
free flow of people and goodsare, and I think this is where
there's an opportunity toeducate and also prepare for

(49:11):
business travel.
To come back, I think one ofthe things that we've certainly
seen on the supplier sidethere's more capacity than ever
certainly seen on the supplierside.
You know there's more capacitythan ever Like.
Then you look at the number ofairlines, the number of routes
that are offering continuingopening up new capacity, the
number of new hotels that arebeing built.
Even during the pandemic, mostof those infrastructure projects
kept pace, and so they were-.

(49:33):
And got done ahead of schedule.
That's exactly it.
Even new airports that werebeing built, like LaGuardia in
New York and like so there's.
This is where, like, there's anopportunity in a crisis and
then to be ready on the otherside.
And so what are some of thethings you're most optimistic
about?
You know, putting, I guess,some of the economic and policy
challenges to one side for amoment, but if you think about

(49:54):
the future of our industry inthe longer term, what are some
of the things that excite youabout our industry in this space
?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, I think one of the key things that has me
excited is I think we'retraveling smarter.
I think, along with thesustainability pressures that
some of us feel or that ourcompanies are putting on us in
terms of policy and some of thetools that are now in place
where you can see projectedemissions that we couldn't see
before, I think in general, theother impact is that day trips

(50:22):
are gone.
I think, for the most part,very few.
Maybe 5% of business travel nowinvolves a day trip, which, if
you've ever done them, they'rehorrible.
You get up at three o' darko'clock and you're on the road,
either driving or in a train oron a plane, and then you're
coming back at midnight fromthose long and that's with no

(50:43):
disruptions.
So if there's disruptions alongthe way, it's even worse.
But what we see now is 40% ofbusiness trips are now three to
five nights, and so there's moreproductivity packed into every
trip.
There might be multipledestinations or, at a minimum,
multiple meetings, and so peopleare thinking about maximizing
their time on the road.
So maybe they're not gone everyweek.

(51:03):
They're gone a couple of weeksa month, but not every week
every month, and certainly it'seasier on family, it's easier on
your own personal life and yourown well-being, but it's also
better on the environment If youkeep going on your trip and
then you come back and then youget your work done and then you
get ready for your next one.
I think the other thing that wesee is you talked about blended

(51:25):
travel.
That is a continuing trend.
I think what we see is thatsomething like 60% of travelers
are more likely to do blendedtravel than they were before
COVID, and the reason I like theword blended is because
pleasure has 98% letters thatare leisure travel, and there's
one letter that's businesstravel, and I think, in large

(51:48):
part, covid taught us that awork trip can actually lead into
what would be a leisure part ofyour trip.
You're extending a weekend oryou're bringing family along,
but it's a work trip.
That essentially anchors whatthat trip is, and I think
there's also a bigsustainability.
Plus is that if you have to as Ido next month go to Asia for

(52:09):
one of our conferences, I'mdoing one of my weeks of annual
vacation there, because I'malready there and I don't have
to fly there again in order tofill my soul with what is a new
travel experience, and so Ithink there's also something to
be said for employee retention,the companies that let their
employees take advantage ofthese kinds of things, and again

(52:31):
, it doesn't cost the companyanymore I'm not charging
anything more for that kind of ablended trip it is more likely
to keep employees in their jobsand it is so expensive for
companies to replace greatemployees that we often think to
Bill Gates' point beforeemployees that don't know each
other don't stay together.

(52:51):
You don't have that stickinessand during COVID people started
jobs and quit jobs without everhaving met some of their
colleagues face-to-face, maybenone of their colleagues
face-to-face.
And we know that where there'scommunity and culture at your
workplace, you're more likely tostay there and have a long and
have lasting impact on yourcompany.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, no, that's fascinating.
I'm glad I have you here to beable to share that type of
information, because I certainlyfind it interesting.
I'm sure our listeners are aswell.
There's a couple otherquestions I had for you, Suzanne
, and then I know you've got abusy conference schedule that
you need to get back to, but Ireally appreciate you spending
time with me to have thisconversation, and one of the
things I wanted to ask you thatI'm always keen to ask an

(53:31):
executive like yourself that hasrisen to such a level of
prominence, and justifiably so,when people look at your
background and your career likeit's a, and I love seeing that
progress.
A lot of younger generation andI can speak to this now because
I have kids that are coming intothe corporate world they want
to advance quickly and I'm sureyou've seen that with a lot of
the younger generation is thatyou know they want to be vice

(53:52):
president by they're 25 and theywant to run the company by the
time they're 30.
Right, and I'm all for ambition, but the reality is that you do
need to learn your craft andyou have to become a master of
craft.
You need to learn how to managepeople, manage partners, read a
spreadsheet, understandfinancial reports I mean, there
is so much to learn and yourealize that there is wisdom in
your elders.
And I think probably this showis an indication of that,

(54:13):
because many people do get a lotof benefit from the
conversations that we have onthis show.
And for me, Suzanne I'm notsure if we've made this
connection before, but when Istarted this podcast, my dad was
dying of cancer and one of thethings that I was transitioning
and I said I was going to startthis podcast to kind of give
back to the travel industry thathas given me so much.
And one of the podcasts I usedto listen to was a Stanford

(54:34):
University podcast.
I used to ride my bike intoLonely Planet's office.
I used to ride my bike in theLonely Planet's office.
I used to listen to thesepodcasts and I would apply the
recommendations from variousspeakers, like Marissa Mayer,
who used to be at Google at thetime, into my work.
And so one of the things I'malways very keen to ask someone
of your prominence is whatadvice would you have for that
young person out there right nowwho's either on their bike or

(54:55):
on their treadmill or foldinglaundry at the moment and is
listening to this because theywant to advance their career.
They either want to get intothis industry.
What would be yourrecommendations to them?

Speaker 1 (55:06):
First of all, ask good questions.
I think if you're ambitiousthen you need to be curious,
because I think anybody whoattains success really early has
a certain amount of talent.
But it's because they've beencurious and they learn, and they
learn quickly.
And so interesting with thecorporate travel industry, I
think it's so much more complexin many ways than the leisure

(55:27):
business.
I know my leisure friends willbe unhappy with me maybe, but
there are so many layers to theecosystem that aren't
necessarily there for theleisure business.
People book direct in leisure.
They don't book direct in manycases in the corporate world and
there's many layers of serviceand thus there's opportunity for
AI.
I can't believe we got throughthe whole podcast without

(55:48):
talking about AI yet, but Ithink the future is going to be
automate what you can and usehuman skills and ingenuity for
the pieces that can't beautomated.
And I think for someone comingup in the world, it is find out
what you love to do and whatyou're good at.
Try to combine them if you can.

(56:09):
But some jobs are just slogsand sometimes you got to go
through a couple of years of ajob you don't really enjoy
because you're learning so much,and I would say we learn the
most sometimes from bosses wedon't really appreciate, and so
it helps you to be a better boss.
It helps you to be other thingslater on in life, maybe a
little bit like a professor incollege the same thing, right.
But I think most of all it'stake advantage of networking.

(56:34):
Make sure that you that's oneof your best assets Don't be
hiding in a corner.
If you are ambitious, takethings that make you
uncomfortable.
Look for opportunities forspecial projects and things that
you might not be great with,but you can sit next to someone
who really knows what they'redoing and you can be mentored by
them.
And, I think, set your careeras a bit of a business plan in

(56:58):
the way that you're looking atit, and if you miss something,
fine, you can always go tosomething.
I think lots of our pivots inour own careers is because we
weren't necessarily looking forsomething and we found something
by accident, and sometimesthose are the best finds.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah, that's some great wisdom right there, and I
like that you actually calledout the fact that we didn't talk
about AI and, by all means, ifyou want to share anything on
that topic, but actually, for me, I find that as soon as we open
up that door, then we're goingto spend the entire time going
down that path, and I think thatwhat we've talked about has
been so informative, so valuable, and I want to make sure that

(57:40):
all of of AI, as it relates tobusiness travel, that you as an
organization, or listeners,should be paying attention to.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Well, certainly, I think our team is quite small.
So where we're implementing AIis probably where the general
world is implementing AI AI butI think many of our suppliers
are looking at it in ways tochange their business, in their
tech space and in their customerservice space especially, and
so I think the promise of AI isthat, as accuracy increases

(58:11):
because travel is a littlefraught, you don't want to be
right 90% of the time because10% of the people might be
taking the wrong connection orsomething right.
So I think the margin of errorin a travel industry has to be
much smaller than in other areaswhere you can start to work
with it and make sure that itkeeps learning and improving,
but where human lives are atstake, I think it's really

(58:34):
important that we get thataccuracy up, with some human
checks and balances along theway.
But there's a huge, huge amountof promise for us.
I think our industry has beenone where you couldn't get
enough post-COVID, enoughcustomer service agents and
others to be able to do some ofthat work that can be automated
as a first step.
Some of those maybe 50% of thequestions can be answered by a

(58:57):
bot at the beginning, and theother 50% need human
interactions.
So I think it's up to us as anindustry to figure out what that
50% is and get that automatedand then make sure humans are at
the end of the other phonecalls.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I saw that in all thoseyears when angry executives
were calling in because theirflight had canceled, and seeing
the reaction of some of the teammembers and what their ability
was to be able to manage thosesituations, have empathy, and so
this is where those humanqualities, especially in this
space, are still paramount.
But the technology is certainlyspeeding ahead and we'll have
to have you back.
We're doing our AI Summit laterthis year and, suzanne, I'd

(59:30):
love to have you back and we candive into just that
specifically and how it'simpacting corporate travel.
So I'll look forward toinviting you back in October and
I want to make sure, just as wesign off, that all of our
listeners can find out moreabout GBTA any specific events
that are coming up, reports, anythings that you would point
people towards for moreinformation.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Yeah, sure, a big convention is happening toward
the end of July in Denver.
We expect nearly 6,000 people,so it's a big event that we hold
annually.
Um, in between now and then, uhis our apac summit, which is
happening in singapore.
Uh, it's our apac conference,uh, in uh toward the end of may.
In june has we have ourlegislative event and our

(01:00:10):
sustainability summit.
We do one a year, asustainability summit, and we've
been fluctuating between europeand the US.
This year it's back inWashington DC and then, as we
head toward the fall, we're inMexico City in September and we
are in Hamburg, germany, inNovember, so bringing all of
those best practices and so muchuniqueness in each one of those

(01:00:32):
regions.
So the education is really fitfor purpose.
The research we're coming outwith the BTI, of course, and
we've got some other reallyinteresting economic and ROI
kinds of studies and somecategory-specific studies
between now and the fall.
So go to gbtaorg.
You can find out what you needand if it's people and planet
related, you can go to our GBTAFoundation site.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Fantastic.
I have already been readingthrough the reports and I know
I'm going to stay tuned.
I'm sure many of our listenersthat are not familiar certainly
this has been eye-opening forthem as well.
And I have to say, suzanne,it's been a real pleasure to
speak to you.
This was a real highlight forme and I certainly look forward
to keeping in touch and goodluck over the next couple of
days and we'll see each otheragain soon.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Thank you Dan.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
I now have the privilege to speak to Laura
Purdy, who is the GeneralManager of Exhibition Place.
Laura, thanks so much forjoining us.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Fantastic.
I'm really looking forward tothis discussion because
Exhibition Place holds a specialplace in my heart.
Having grown up in Mississaugaand spending so many trips
heading on the GO train intoToronto and getting off at
Exhibition Place, of course, theBlue Jays I'm really keen to
have the conversation with youto learn more about Exhibition
Place.
Now tell us your role is thegeneral manager, laura.

(01:01:48):
Tell us a little bit about yourrole and how you came to be the
general manager at ExhibitionPlace.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Well, it's an interesting story.
I originally started my careerin the shopping center
management industry.
I worked for a company calledOlympia New York, which was a
major developer in Toronto, andin my role there I was in charge
of marketing and communications, and we would participate in a

(01:02:15):
number of different bid projectsaround the world for different
development or opportunitiesthat the company was looking at.
In 1996, this building rightacross the street from where we
are today, which was called theNational Trade Center, was under
construction and looking for amanagement company to manage
this brand new convention centerthat was going to be the

(01:02:36):
largest one in Canada, and so Iwas assigned to work on the bid
team.
And lo and behold, you know,after several months of working
with some of our colleagues inthe States, we won the bid.
And after we won the bid, I wascalled in and informed that I
was going to become the Directorof Sales and Marketing.

(01:02:57):
Surprise, surprise, unbeknownstto me, and at the time I was
very content with what I wasdoing in shopping center
management, retail management,and I made a deal.
My deal was I would come andopen the building and work there
for a year, and then I would goback, and so Life changed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Life had other plans for you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Well, I went, I came, we opened the building After a
year.
They knocked on my door andsaid would you please come back?
And I said I don't think so.
This is a really amazing placeand I'm going to stay.
And that was 28 years ago, wow.
So we just celebrated the 28thanniversary of Entercare Center

(01:03:43):
at Exhibition Place and I'vebeen here since day one.
I was the first employee ofthat new building, that's
amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Oh, that's cool.
Well, one thing that Laura andI just got to connect on just as
we were sitting down to recordis that we actually both grew up
in Mississauga, so we wereactually both riding those GO
trains into town, and clearlythis particular place holds a
very special meaning for you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
You were watching the Argonauts games outdoors.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Outdoors freezing cold yeah exactly, or sitting in
the bleachers for the Blue Jaysgames which they've now
recreated.
This whole area is special tome but I don't know the full
history.
This whole area is special tome but I don't know the full
history and even when I waspreparing for our conversation I
was amazed at what I waslearning and uncovering about
Exhibition Place.
And just to give our listenerssome context, I mean this goes

(01:04:33):
back to 1879.
Many people might even befamiliar with seeing this
particular the architecture inmovies.
Like you might see the backdropand never know that that's like
the C&E or Exhibition Place.
But we would come here oftenfor the C&E, the Canadian
National Exhibition, which hasbeen hosted every year here at
the Exhibition Place.
But here's the part that Ifound staggering is that you
guys host over 1,200 eventsevery year and have nearly 6

(01:04:58):
million visitors.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
That's crazy to me.
We're up to 2,100 events a year.
As of last year, unreal andyeah, almost 6 million people a
year and it is quite amazing.
So when you think about itunder a 365-day, year we're
hosting multiple events everyday.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Yeah, multiple events every day.
Yeah, well, the particularbuilding that we're in, which is
also a bit special for mebecause we're in the automotive
building within Exhibition Place, which is a beautiful old
building, and I know that youguys have many, many updates to
this building and we'll talk abit about sustainability in this
discussion as well but I usedto come here for the ski and
snowboard show which is like,and it was always held at the

(01:05:40):
automotive building every year,and so that's why it holds
special meaning for me.
Even when I walked in today, Iwas like I still remember coming
in here 25 years ago.
It looks a little different.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
It looks amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
That's the one thing I was like oh my God this place
has been like, has really beenkept up and it's so modern
inside.
But, yeah, tell everyone a bitabout Exhibition Place For the
uninitiated, for our globalaudience, that don't have the
connection, like we do, toMississauga, Toronto and don't
know what a GO train is.
Tell everyone about ExhibitionPlace a bit of the background

(01:06:12):
and context for the event thatwe're here for.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Of course.
So Exhibition Place is a192-acre campus and we are
located on Toronto's waterfrontand the origins of Exhibition
Place really came back to theCanadian National Exhibition,
which was all the buildings werereally created to house the
Canadian National Exhibition and, interestingly enough, you know

(01:06:34):
it was like a world's fair atthat point in time.
So it was an annual summertime18-day event and each of the
buildings were constructed withthe Canadian National Exhibition
in mind.
So you have, for example, thisbuilding, the automotive
building, which was actuallyconstructed in the late 1920s to
showcase the first automobile,and there are some pretty

(01:06:59):
amazing little aspectsarchitecturally in this building
that give us a view to theorigin of the automobile.
So I'll walk you around later.
There's little plasterimpressions of wheels with wings
, which was like the future oftravel that are in the ceilings

(01:07:19):
of the building.
So you know, each building hasits own unique kind of flavor
right of travel that are in theceilings of the building.
So each building has its ownunique kind of flavor right.
So there was an arts and craftsbuilding.
There was a better livingcenter which was showcasing
washing machines andrefrigerators.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
That was like the Epcot Center.
When I was a kid it was likethe future.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Things that made your life really advanced at the
time and over the years.
Exhibition Place then startedmerging, not just being a summer
destination but alsoincorporating other events and
activities throughout the yearand over time over 100, almost
40 years.
We have like a sisterhood withthe canadian national exhibition

(01:08:04):
association.
They run their fair, anexhibition place was formed and
now we are our cousins.
We're distinctly different andthey're a client of ours and we
run the grounds itself.
But it's a it's a little minicity in the middle of toronto.
We have a variety of permanenttenants here, we have hotels, we
have nightclubs, we havebanquet halls, we have horse

(01:08:31):
riding lessons and the largestconvention center in the country
.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Well, I think that's one thing to highlight as well,
because the Enercare Center eventhough we're here at the uh
automotive building, theentercare center, is just a
short walk away.
I mean, really it's just acrossthe street and there's like a
million square feet of space inthat.
I've been to the many eventsthere.
But entercare, tell us a littlebit about I guess, the uh, the
structure of the group andspecifically entercare, like

(01:08:57):
that uh branding and thatpartnership, uh, because
obviously they they're a sponsorright.
Yeah, right, explain thatconnection because obviously
they they're a sponsor rightyeah, right explain that
connection, because I think welive in a more interesting world
now, where buildings used to becalled the automotive building,
but now so many stadiums havebeen given other names.
It'd be helpful if you give usa bit of overview of the inner
care center sure so.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
The inner care center is canada's largest convention
and exhibition facility, for amillion square feet.
Um, we're actually physicallyconnected underground to the
automotive building.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Yeah, Canadian winters, better remember that we
look at it as a complex.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
And you know, years ago we decided it was originally
called the National TradeCenter and we decided to go
after a naming sponsor.
And you know originally it wasDirect Energy, who was then
acquired by Enercare.
But the unique thing about thenaming sponsorship for us is
that we actually earmarked allof the monies from the naming

(01:09:51):
sponsorship to sustainability.
So you know it wasn't just acash deal where we would be
saying, just pay us money tohave your name on the building.
We actually took that money andyou know it was $7 million.
It wasn't a small amount ofmoney at the time and we
earmarked that for innovations,for sustainability projects.
So we actually put that to areally great use for the

(01:10:14):
community.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Right, and now one thing I also wanted to ask you.
I know we talked about yourbackground, but in terms of your
role then, as being the generalmanager, tell us a little bit
about what you oversee, giventhe complexity of this operation
and all the buildings and allthese events.
What is your role comprised of?
And tell us a little bit aboutthe team that supports and is
around you as well.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Of course.
So my role is reallyresponsible for all the
convention and exhibition venuesacross the site and I have with
me an incredible team.
So my portfolio, I guess youcould say, includes sales and
marketing, transportation,security, event management,
production management.

(01:10:56):
So I'm really the front lineaspect that deals with our
clients and the public as itrelates to conventions, meetings
and exhibitions, and I have acolleague who's the general
manager of operations and hetakes care of the plant and all
of the physical aspects of thatand his whole team.
We actually have to divide andconquer here because we are such
a large and complex space andwe look at that portfolio as to

(01:11:22):
our areas of expertise.
So I came from, you know, theside of meetings, conventions,
tourism, and that's my area ofexpertise.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Well, that's helpful context, because we just sat
down with Suzanne, who all ofour listeners just heard from,
who is the CEO of GPTA, and sheflew in from New York, and this
is.
You know, I love showcasingToronto to any visitors that are
coming in.
If it's obviously, it's my homecity.
You know, I travel half thetime and I've lived in several
other countries, but this ishome for me and I love bringing

(01:11:51):
people to this part of the cityas well because, as you
highlighted, the waterfront isjust across the street from us
and it's especially beautifulthis time of the year.
It's especially beautiful thistime of the year, and so when
people come in from New York andsee our city, this is where we
want to showcase.
We want to showcase thedowntown and the waterfront,

(01:12:13):
especially when we've grown upin the suburbs and we love the
city so much.
So one of the things I wanted toask you too is when you partner
with someone like GBTA, how dothose relationships come about?
Because I mean, for me, I'vealways been someone that's just
attending an event here, andwhen I found out because GBTA
and Destination Toronto were theones that kindly brought in
Travel Trends to be here forthis event and I'm thrilled to
be attending a number of thesessions.
But I'm just curious how thoserelationships are formed.

(01:12:34):
So when GBTA reached out to youand your team that they were
interested in holding the venuehere this year, how do those
partnerships come about for you?

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
It's a great question because people don't understand
how things come about.
They just assume events happen.
I wish it was that easy.
Maybe I wouldn't have a job ifthat was the case.
But we have a really dynamicsales team that is out in market
looking for new opportunitiesto bring to the city of Toronto
and also to Exhibition Place.

(01:13:03):
And so you know, throughattending international events
or trade missions, differenttrade shows for industry
associations, we meet withcandidates that we think would
be an appropriate fit for ourbuilding and then we work with
partners right, we work withDestination Toronto, for example
, on opportunities that may cometo the destination and then we

(01:13:23):
bid within the destination.
So it's a very competitiveaspect of bringing in new
business to the city formeetings and conventions.
So GBTA was one of those thatcame through Destination Toronto
, our partner, and it was ajoint bid process with ourselves
and also with Hotel X, who isour on-site hotel, to make sure

(01:13:46):
that we could accommodate theevent of this size and magnitude
in the right venue.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
One of the challenges previously, as you're well
aware, is there wasn'taccommodation right on site
within Exhibition Place.
But there's lots ofaccommodation very close by,
because we're very close to thedowntown core, but now there's a
landmark hotel.
Tell us a little bit about that, because I have spoken to two
colleagues earlier today thatwere raving about Hotel X, and
one person who commented thatthey had like a 12-hour sleep

(01:14:17):
and the best sleep of their life, and I was like I guess I need
to stay there at some pointbecause I'm certainly not
getting my bed at home, butclearly there's something about
Hotel X.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Absolutely.
You know, when we opened thebuilding of National Trade
Center, we knew that we needed adestination hotel that was
adjacent to the building and, asyou know, they aren't easy to
come by.
There's a lot of developmentopportunities in the city and we
wanted a hotel.
So, you know, we decided that wewere going to put out an RFP

(01:14:46):
for a hotel property and we wereso fortunate to be working with
a gentleman out of New York,henry Callan, who's an
independent, and he saw thevision of Exhibition Place.
He saw the vision of what wewere doing for the automotive
building, for example, turningit into a beautiful meeting
facility and he jumped on boardand he built this exquisite

(01:15:12):
luxury property which is nowphysically connected to the
automotive building, theautomotive building, and they
really do provide not only, youknow, fantastic rooms but also
probably the best customerservice, I would say in the city
within all the properties.
They've recently just done agreat expansion opportunity with

(01:15:35):
us where they're going to bebuilding a second hotel property
just next door to the firsttower and that's going to be
another 400 rooms and it's goingto be a little more family uh,
family oriented in nature, whichwas going to be great for the
convention delegate as well.
So we have kind of a dual pricepoint that we can offer for the
convention and meeting delegate, and then part of that is also
going to be an esports facilityoh, no, kidding, which is going

(01:15:58):
to?
be really cool, so it's going tobe custom made for eSports and
then have the ability to doconcerts as well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Very cool.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
So just another element of the evolution of
Exhibition Place.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Yeah well, you just highlighted another memory for
me.
It was coming down for rockconcerts.
I saw Kiss perform here, manyyears ago, and so, yeah, this is
where, like it's a hallowedground for many people that are
from the greater Toronto area,because there's always been
something happening at the C&Eor exhibition place that they're
drawn to, and I guess this iswhere, finally, I get to sit

(01:16:33):
down with someone that has somuch knowledge and expertise on
this area and this space, andone of the things I'm keen to be
able to ask you when you lookat these types of collaborations
you're doing, gbta being onegreat example you guys have gone
out to market.
You're bringing in globalpartners to Toronto.
It is the number oneentertainment destination in
Canada, and so that's not only areflection of the population of
Toronto, but that's also allthat inbound people flying into
the city for events that arehosted here, and I know you guys

(01:16:55):
have some major events comingup.
The World Cup is one examplethat we're all very excited
about that Toronto is going tobe a part of, and we were just
talking about the hotel.
What are some of the things thatdraw people to Exhibition Place
?
What were some of the reasonswhy GBTA chose to host their
venue here?
I think it's perfect for themand, as I was saying, I was
thrilled when I found out thatit was going to be here at the

(01:17:15):
automotive building specifically.
But what are some of the thingsthat draw people to Exhibition
Place to host their events?

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
I think one of the major things is the flexibility
that we can offer.
So we can offer events indifferent aspects.
So we can offer meetings andconventions a more hotel-like
environment, like we are todayhere in the automotive building
with the ballrooms and meetingroom component.
We can also offer theflexibility of adding on to your
event, also offer theflexibility of adding on to your

(01:17:44):
event.
So if you have a big exhibitcomponent and you required more
space or you have a growth plan,we can grow that event into an
inner care center, for example,because it's physically attached
and we found we've had a lot ofour clients starting small and
then having a platform in whichto grow over the years, either
in rotation or as an annualizedbasis.

(01:18:04):
So the flexibility is reallyimportant.
And then we build in a numberof other factors.
So we talked a little bit aboutsustainability.
It's a little close to my heart, but because we're so committed
to sustainability, we actuallyembed those aspects into the
meeting or into the buildingenvelope itself.
So what we find is clients arecoming to us looking for a green

(01:18:27):
meeting and they don't have todo anything because we've
already done it for them.
So we've already incorporatedall the aspects into the venue
itself, and how we divert wasteand how we create energy and how
we heat and cool the building,and it's an automatic for them.
So, where it's on theirchecklist, they don't have to do
anything more than what we'realready offering, because we're

(01:18:49):
already kind of best in industry.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Yeah, I want to dive into that actually right now
because when I was speaking toSuzanne, I was asking her a few
questions about sustainabilityand how they advocate on behalf
of business travel organizations.
They advocate on behalf ofbusiness travel organizations
and they have a very importantrole to play in helping
organizations make sustainablebusiness choices and we're

(01:19:11):
certainly seeing.
One of the themes of our TravelTrends podcast was how has
traveler behavior changedpost-pandemic?
And we've certainly seen a risein conscientiousness that what
didn't exist prior to thepandemic partly because of what
we all went through during thattime, and then seeing the impact
of when people weren'ttraveling on the environment and
communities, and all of asudden then seeing destinations
overwhelmed again, like Veniceand areas that are overheated

(01:19:35):
and over-touristed at certaintimes of the year, and it made
travelers that much moreconscientious of their decision
making.
So you have, you know, websiteslike bookingcom that now have
added that layer of decisionmaking to the consumer and I'm
very encouraged by this.
So every time I have a travelindustry executive on the
podcast, I'm always asking aboutsustainability because I

(01:19:55):
personally find it veryimportant and ultimately I think
we all should, because the onlyway we're going to continue to
live on this planet is if wetake better care of it and leave
it better for futuregenerations, and there's a lot
to be done there, and I knowthis is something that is very
important to Exhibition Place,and it's interesting to me
because, although our podcast isabout travel trends, people are

(01:20:16):
traveling to come to an eventplace like Exhibition Place and
they're deciding whether or notthey hold their events at
certain venues based on theircarbon footprint, and so one of
the things I noticed, laura, asI was preparing for our
conversation, is that ExhibitionPlace is on track for net zero
carbon by 2050, which is goingto come up all too quickly.
So it's a pretty bold goal, buta very important one.

(01:20:40):
So take us through, if youwouldn't mind, some of the
initiatives that you haveunderway to be able to achieve
that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
So sustainability is really ingrained in our in our
DNA, and we actually have beenon this journey for 20 years.
So we started in 2004, kind ofbefore green was cool.
We started.
We started looking at how wecan be more sustainable in our
operations.
When you think about it, wehave a million square feet of

(01:21:07):
convention space.
That's a lot to heat and cool.
There's a lot of waste, and sowe embarked on this journey way
back in 2004 and how weoriginally looked at waste
diversion, how we could reducethe amount of waste going to
landfill, originally looked atwaste diversion, how we could
reduce the amount of waste goingto landfill.
So for us, when COP26 happenedand they brought about an

(01:21:27):
opportunity for the eventsindustry to sign on to the net
zero carbon events pledge, wewere one of the first to sign up
and it was important to usbecause it was already what we
do, and so we signed up as oneof the first convention centers
in the world and we thenembarked on creating our roadmap

(01:21:48):
and not to get too far into theweeds, but we wanted to make
sure that we were satisfyingdifferent elements of either
energy creation, energyconservation or waste diversion,
and that's how we've kind ofbroken ourselves up into the
three pillars.
And you know, you'll see, wehave a wind turbine on site.
We create our own wind energy.
We have solar PV panels on ourbuildings.

(01:22:09):
We create solar energy.
We divert waste we're divertingupwards of 70% of our waste
from our meetings, conventionsand exhibitions and we do that
on behalf of our client.
It is not an added burden toour client.
And then we look at ways that wecan green our building.
So this building that we're inis a LEED Silver Certified

(01:22:31):
building.
It's, in fact, the onlyheritage building in the world
that has a LEED SilverCertification and while she may
be over 100 years old, she lookspretty good as a building.
So you know, everything in thisbuilding is sustainable.
So everything from recycledcarpets to our furnishings,

(01:22:51):
which is made from recyclablematerials and is recyclable upon
the event of the end of lifefor those pieces of furniture.
But you wouldn't know it.
It is a beautiful, modern.
It feels like a hotel insideand really it does.
It's a proving ground to showmeeting planners that you can be

(01:23:11):
sustainable and still bedesigned forward.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Interesting.
The other thing I wanted to askyou, just given your how you
where our conversation started,laura, about how you know you
never expected to be sittinghere in this GM role at
Exhibition Place all these yearslater.
Clearly, you've learned a lot.
You've shared so much with us.
For someone out there that'slistened to this, that's been
inspired from our conversationand I'm saying specifically like

(01:23:38):
the, the next generation oryounger generation that is
studying, wants to be in thetourism space or just fascinated
by some of the things you'vehighlighted, what
recommendations would you havefor them to follow in your
footsteps or to be able topursue a role like you have?

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
Certainly, coming into the tourism and hospitality
arena is always exciting.
Coming into the tourism andhospitality arena is always
exciting.
I think the events side of thebusiness the convention and
events side of the business isrelatively unknown.
Most of us fall into thebusiness in some way and then
discover probably the mostincredible career opportunities
you could have ever imagined,and I think I put myself in in

(01:24:18):
in that aspect.
The best part of being here atExhibition and working in this
industry is that every day isdifferent.
Every day is an opportunity tolearn something or to share
information and you have to beflexible to be able to react to

(01:24:40):
what may be coming down the pipe.
So we're working with you knowit's a people business.
We're working with clients,we're working with all different
types of events.
You learn all about the economyand different aspects of the
industries because we changeevery week.
Every week there's just a newevent or activity coming in and
I think probably my best adviceto the next generation is put

(01:25:02):
your hand up and get involved,volunteer, get involved in your
industry associations, meetpeople and volunteer for
projects that will be probablyoutside your job description.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:16):
Because that's where you learn and grow and you can
discover a new path.
And that's probably the bestthing that I did was I was open
to new opportunities and I putmy hand up for projects that
were well outside my area ofexpertise and I learned, I mean
in this building.
I put my hand up for workingwith the architects for the

(01:25:37):
interior design of this buildingand you know, it's one of my
points of pride.
I love when clients come intothe building and are like, wow,
this is an amazing space and Ihad something to do with that
and I learned an incredibleamount where in my role at that
time as Director of Sales andMarketing.
That's not in my jobdescription, but it was okay

(01:25:59):
because it allowed me tounderstand from a client's
perspective what they werelooking for in a building and
how we could create anexperience that would lend
itself to success for theirmeetings and events.
So put your hand up, getinvolved, volunteer.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
That's great advice and it's interesting because, as
our listeners would have heard,I asked Suzanne a similar
question and one of the thingsthat you have clearly both in
your careers is you takeinitiative, you just like, you
put your hand up, and I thinkthat's really sound advice
because everyone wants toadvance quickly but oftentimes,
as I've highlighted to ourlisteners in the past, you've

(01:26:35):
got to put in the work andyou've got to.
You know you've got to learnyour craft and you certainly
have.
And I've learned a lot from ourconversation and it's been
fascinating for me and actuallyI'm keen to chat with Laura as
well afterwards, because onething I just wanted to highlight
to all of our listeners and Ipay respect to what you do is
that events are hard.
Events are complex, they'retime-consuming, they're
high-risk.

(01:26:56):
There's so much riding on anevent in person.
I'm not an event guy.
I love attending events, but Ihave the greatest respect for
people who can manage and pulloff events.
So I like the way you describethe fact because it's always
going to be new.
Like being here at GBTA andthen next week you'll be getting
ready for another conference ina totally different industry
and you've got entertainment andyou have sports and like no, it
has to be so dynamic andexciting to be here, but at the

(01:27:18):
same time very intense and verystressful, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
Because you're-.

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
Stressful, I mean in a great way.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
I mean, it takes a certain kind of person to thrive
on that level of stress.
I mean, we're all a little.
We like a little adventure.
I think in our industry and weare we're dealing with clients
who this event, for them, is theevent they've worked all year,
sometimes longer, to make surethey can produce for this event.
We have an event next week.

(01:27:46):
They they're working on thisevent.
This is the only thing that'simportant to them.
And so you know, from ourstandpoint for customer service
and delivering service, we haveto make sure that we are meeting
and exceeding whatever theirexpectation is.
And that's what makes it reallyinteresting, because you're
dealing with people who areunder a lot of stress and we're
trying to make them look goodevery step of the way.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Yeah, that's really cool.
I've been such an enjoyableconversation, Laura.
The one thing I want to makesure we do finish off with is
for all of those listeners outthere that are all of a sudden,
have checked out the website andare like learning more
information about ExhibitionPlace and keen to partner with
you or connect with you directly.
Where would you direct them?

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
I would direct them either to our social channels at
ExplaceTO or through ourwebsite at explaceonca.
Those are the best vehicles andplatforms to communicate to us
and, as I said, we're here 365days, seven days a week.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Well, I look forward to one day we do an AI summit.
We do it virtually, as many ofour listeners know, but I look
forward to one day doing theevent in person here at
Exhibition Place, once weactually are able to fill the
place and bring the sponsorsalong with us.
But I certainly would love towork with you together on a
future event and host it here.
That would be particularlyspecial.
So, thank you, laura, a realwonderful conversation.

(01:29:02):
I look forward to keeping intouch.
Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
I now have the pleasure to speak to Heather
Neal here at the GBTA conferencein Toronto.
I'm so thrilled thatDestination Toronto brought us
together for this amazing eventand, as you've heard from our
two first guests, you've got agreat background on GBTA, the
exhibition place where we arehere at the Automotive Building,
and now we have a chance tobring in the Managing Director

(01:29:27):
of Destination Toronto to get abit understanding of her role
and this organization that I'vecome to know and just keep
discovering ways that you guysare involved in the economy for
Toronto and bringing tourism tothis city.
But first of all, welcome,heather.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
It's great to have you on this special spotlight
episode of Travel Trends.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Thanks so much.
I'm excited to be hereFantastic and thank you again
for your team for theopportunity to be here.
So I'm keen for everyone toknow more about Destination
Toronto.
But before we do, tell everyonea little bit more about your
background.
They certainly got anunderstanding from me there
about your role and what it isthat you do as the managing
director of sales, but tell us alittle bit about how you got
into this industry in the firstplace.

Speaker 4 (01:30:08):
Well, like most people I think most people in
the event space kind of stumbleinto the event space, quite
frankly, take a left turn intheir initial career plans
coming out of university andfind this amazing industry that
we call events.
So I spent my first 22 years inthe corporate space on the
general contractor side for GESand led various teams there on

(01:30:28):
the operations and sales sidebefore I moved over to
Destination Toronto leading thesales team for business events.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
Fantastic.
And then Destination Torontoitself.
How would you describe theorganization?

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
You know, we are important to the community
because we look at drivingeconomic growth, bringing
visitors into the city on thebusiness event side and on the
leisure side.
We have two dedicated teams atDestination Toronto.
One focuses on business events,which is the team I lead, and
one focuses more on leisure andvisitors and growing the

(01:31:01):
economic impact of the city.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
And now Toronto.
We both call this city home,and many of our listeners know
that I'm Canadian.
I'm based in Toronto, I'vespent most of my career working
internationally and travelinginternationally, so I've been
fortunate enough to be basedhere for a good part of my
career.
But I've lived in Australia,I've lived in the US, the UK,
lived in Vancouver, and soToronto holds a special place to

(01:31:25):
me because I wasn't born here,but I was raised here.
I was born in England, as maybesome of our listeners know as
well, but I grew up in Toronto,like so many people that are new
to this country, and so I'm animmigrant as well, and one of
the things I've always lovedabout the city is just how
diverse it is, not just in termsof the people that you get to
go to school with, but thepeople that you work with.
When you look around a boardroomin Toronto, it really is very
representative of cultures fromaround the world, and that to me

(01:31:48):
, I think, is a real competitiveadvantage for the city, for the
types of individuals thatimmigrate here, the
entrepreneurial work ethic, andso there's a lot I love about
Toronto, and I don't think I'vequite shared that with all of
our listeners, but I think it'simportant in the context of our
conversation today because I'mkeen to get your take on that as
well.
And the one last thing I'lljust add to that is that one of
my favorite.

(01:32:08):
When I was in university I tooka journalism course and I was
subscribed to the Globe and Mail, and I'm still an avid reader
of the Globe and Mail, which isone of our best newspapers, a

(01:32:31):
national newspaper and is readinternationally as well, and one
of the journalists hadhighlighted that Toronto may not
be a world-class city likeParis or London the world, but
certainly it's not yet on thescale of New York.
Some people call it Canada's NewYork, but tell everyone a
little bit more about Torontoitself and some of the events
and tourism activity that comesto the city.

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
Listen.
Toronto in and of itself is avibrant and exciting city.
People live and work in ourdowntown core, which makes us
very unusual compared to similarsized US cities.
Toronto is always alive.
It doesn't matter whether yougo out at eight in the morning
or whether you go out at 11 atnight.
There's people around walking,it's safe.
It's bustling because of thework and live mix in Toronto.

(01:33:14):
In terms of the business eventscommunity in particular, one of
the coolest things aboutToronto is we have two
convention centers downtown.
It's unusual Again, a lot ofcities don't have that.
We have both the Metro TorontoConvention Center and the
Intercare Center within a coupleof kilometers of each other.
Surrounding those two venuesare over 114 hotels with 20,000
plus hotel rooms.

(01:33:35):
So we are well positioned toserve the business events
community that comes into thecity on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
Yeah, that's great, and as we sit here, like the
waterfront is across from us,we're in the C&E building.
We talked on these last twoconversations about the C&E and
I think it's one of the thingsthat always stands out to me
when people come to Toronto forthe first time.
And a lot of people here at theGBTA event are from the US and
certainly like New York City,and we've seen a number of

(01:34:04):
people over this morning and, Iknow, over the next couple of
days that are traveling herefrom the US and the thing I
always hear is like I had noidea how awesome Toronto is as a
city, because it is a living,functioning downtown core to
your point, with conventioncenters, with restaurants, with
so much to do, which is whybringing together in-person
events is such a perfect thingto do in Toronto, and especially
on the revival of that wholeindustry, and I know that's an

(01:34:28):
important thing for DestinationToronto and that's what brings
us all together.
So tell us a little bit moreabout, I guess, the revival of
in-person events and what you'veseen and the resurgence,
because that's always been thefocus of our podcast is what
traveler behavior looks likepost pandemic.
That's how we we started thisshow and you know, even though
we're three years past, that youknow many of these consumer

(01:34:48):
trends are consistent, thatpeople love the fact that they
can get back together in person,and so we've seen a strong
resurgence in in-person events.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you're seeing that shift in
the industry, and specificallyas it relates to business travel
.

Speaker 4 (01:35:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I'll wordsmith back a littlebit what you said, because I
really like how you framed it asa revival or a resurgence.
That is truthfully what'shappening in business events for
Toronto.
It's not a shift, because evenpre-COVID we were a leader in
business events, a city, a tierone city, that people desired to
bring their business events to.

(01:35:25):
So you know, as the economiccenter of Canada, our business
travel community is of thestrongest of the country and
getting back to that in the lastcouple of years to post
pandemic is is really where weshine and we're grateful to be
back in this place.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Even when I had internationalroles, I'd be living in
Vancouver, I was working atCarlson Wagley.
We'd come back to Toronto andall of a sudden I'd be at the
airport.
I grew up in Mississauga, sofor me, the airport and that
whole area of Toronto and I wasjust discussing that with one of
your colleagues and it's one ofthe things that I always found
fascinating was coming back toToronto for business meetings,
even though I'm from here andeven G Adventures we used to

(01:36:00):
hold our G stock every year andinternationally all of these
leaders in travel would come toToronto.
We base ourselves in the city.
We might go to Niagara Falls orup to Collingwood, but you were
bringing people to the city forthe first time.
So it has everything to offeras a business hub.
I always say to people it's notthe aesthetically beautiful
city that Vancouver is and, butit's got so much to offer Once

(01:36:25):
you get into this city all theneighborhoods.
So tell us a little bit aboutthese business events that are
coming back.
Obviously, we're here for GBTAand everyone's heard about this
amazing organization and howmany people have come together
for this event.
But tell us a little bit moreabout the business events that
you guys are spearheading orpartnering with to bring to
Toronto.

Speaker 4 (01:36:44):
Well, without getting into names of specific events,
perhaps I'll focus a little biton sectors that are strong for
Toronto, because our businesscommunity is so strong in the
city.
There are certain sectors thatattract big meetings into
Toronto.
Life sciences and education aretwo of the larger sectors that
are prevalent in bringing theirbusiness events from around the

(01:37:05):
globe into Toronto.
Finance, advanced manufacturing, food and beverage type
meetings all of these are reallycommonplace to have happen in
Toronto because we have thebusiness community present in
the city that can support thosemeetings.
Toronto has more than a quarterof Canada's largest business
headquarters based right here inour city.
We have a startup culturethat's really changing how the

(01:37:27):
world works.
So this concentration ofinnovation, of businesses, of
leaders, presents a large poolof potential meeting attendees,
meeting sponsors and potentialconvention speakers on a variety
of these topics, in theseleading sectors.
So that's why it makes Torontosuch an attractive place to
bring your meetings from aroundCanada or globally.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Yeah, what's really interesting about that?
I had a chance to meet AndrewWeir, who is the President and
CEO of Destination Toronto,someone you work with very
closely, and Andrew and Iconnected at the Virtuoso event
in Las Vegas and we got pairedin a meeting with media and
industry and instantly we hadthat moment to be like we're
both from Toronto and how can wehave never met before.
But what was interesting to meabout that and this shows you

(01:38:09):
how the travel industry works inmany ways is that you have to
put yourself out there to havethose sorts of opportune
meetings, and that's really whatthen leads to having someone
like Andrew at an event likethat, extolling the virtues of
what an amazing city Toronto isto court travel companies and
conferences and businesses andwe were hearing a bit about that
no-transcript in your role andhow the organization functions

(01:38:53):
to bring events like thistogether.

Speaker 4 (01:38:54):
You know it differs in different parts of the world.
To be quite honest, you know,event producers that are based
outside of North America have amuch longer process in terms of
qualifying destinations andtheir rotation for destinations
they consider can often meanthat Toronto is only looked at
once every 20 years.
It's really important todemonstrate in your first

(01:39:20):
go-round why Toronto is theplace to be and how we can
connect with their audience withour sector strength.
Likewise, meetings that come outof the United States Rotations
into Canada aren't as frequentas we would all like.
So when a US association islooking at Toronto as their

(01:39:43):
destination, we make sure we putour best foot forward so they
understand the products, thediversity and the support within
the city, both from a financialperspective and also from a
sector perspective in supportingdriving big attendance when
they bring their event toToronto.
It's kind of like when Americanorganizers look at Toronto,
they consider us aninternational destination, so

(01:40:03):
this is their dipping their toeinto an international light
experience, and that's reallywhere we shine in bringing US
events into the country.
We also have Canadianorganizers who rotate their
events all across the country.
We certainly can't forget them.
They're a valuable part of ourbusiness event all across the
country.
We certainly can't forget them.
They're a valuable part of ourbusiness and we want to ensure

(01:40:25):
that Toronto is always a stop ontheir rotational scale within
the country.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
I'm a huge Blue Jays fan and I love going to see
games.
Despite the fact that they'vehad a couple of tough years, I'm
still.
Since I was a kid, I went toBlue Jays games.
It's always been my team andI've been there for the opening
of the Sky Dome, when it beforewas called the Rogers Center,
the all-star game.
I still remember this momentwhere they opened and closed the
Dome.
It was the first year the Domewas open and they got the

(01:40:49):
all-star game that year and theysubsequently went to World
Series.
That was the glory era for usBlue Jays fans.
But when they opened and closedthe Dome and they to us that
the world was watching, we wereall standing on our feet and
applauding and so excited thatwe had this retractable roof in
Toronto, which we clearly needgiven our weather.
And but the latest iterations ofthe blue Jays jerseys, these

(01:41:12):
sort of city connect, as they'recalled that, the MLB, major
league baseball has been rollingout in different cities.
It reflects the Toronto skylineand diverse, and the tagline is
diversity is our strength, and Ithink that you know there's so
much that Toronto has to offer,whether it be the business,
travel community or tourists tothe city, and so I'm always keen
to understand how it comes tobe like that authenticity and

(01:41:34):
like the spirit of Toronto, withcultures and ideas like that's
exactly what draws peopletogether and why we have, you
know, a big AI hub and a techhub, and you know, great
universities and so much tooffer, which is why we're
running our event here inToronto and I know so many other
organizations choose to.
But how do you bring that tolife in terms of you know, these

(01:41:57):
business events and connectingwith the community?
So it's obviously one thing tohave all of those virtues as a
brand, but then how do youactually get them out into the
world and specifically connectwith business events?

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):
I mean, toronto is a global city, there's no question
, but it's distinctly Canadianand we have this unique blend of
international influence mixedwith unmistakable homegrown
talent.
Diversity is our true identity.
It's not just lip service, itis who we are, and innovation is
our driving force in the city,and that, in and of itself, are
the two pieces that pulltogether the business community,

(01:42:31):
along with the products andservices in the city to support
said meetings.

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
Yeah, and then I guess, when that comes together
with you mentioned the, it's notjust a tagline it's difficult
to otherwise summarize itOtherwise it's more of a.
It's the vibe that we want togive off as to what to expect
from our city that we're verywelcoming.
This is something that I alsohear that much more today, just

(01:42:55):
given some of the challengesthat are happening globally and
geopolitically, that I've hearda number of Americans that have
asked me, you know, abouttraveling to Canada and the
first thing it was, like youknow, we are arms open to
travelers from the US coming toCanada.
We love Americans.

Speaker 4 (01:43:09):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
And so we and we see so many American license plates
coming across, especially thesummertime, this time of the
year to come for sporting eventsand festivals, and and so I
just wanted to reiterate thatfrom my point of view, and I'm
sure you feel the same way thatfor any Americans that are right
now hesitant and travelinginternationally or coming across
to Canada, please come.
We were very excited and I lovehearing these stories I'm sure

(01:43:32):
you've heard some of these aswell where an American comes
across the border and, you know,buys everyone breakfast at a
restaurant and like there's, youknow, there's such kinship
between our two countries andthe people.
And the one thing that I, youknow I I've got many great
friends in the US and, and soI'm always encouraging them to
come up to Toronto.
So how, how important is the USmarket for, for travelers to

(01:43:54):
Toronto?
I guess that's one thing I'dlike to ask you, given your your
vantage point and certainly howI feel about the whole
situation at the moment.

Speaker 4 (01:44:02):
Extensively important and we are open for business
and want them to continue coming, whether it's for business
events, especially for businessevents, but also for leisure
travel and vacations.
You know 60% of the UnitedStates lives within a 90 minute
direct flight to Toronto, so weare the largest hub of attendees
coming into this country.

(01:44:23):
So vitally important.
That hasn't changed.
Our dollar is on fire for themright now.
We encourage them to continuetraveling more, actually,
increase your travel.
We are here with open arms foryou to come and visit our city.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
You just made me laugh withthat, because the stat that
often gets touted around is that90% of Canadians live within
100 miles of the US border, andthere's an interesting
geographical reason for that,and that's like the arable land
that is actually possible for usto be able to get food out of
the ground before the wintercomes, in particular is, like

(01:44:57):
you know, along the parallel.
So we need to exist along thatline, and so I have never heard
it described the way you justdid, Heather, is that actually
60% of Americans live within a90 minute flight.
That's the first time I'veheard that.
I'm going to use that againbecause that's.
But you're right when you thinkabout the Eastern seaboard of
the US in particular, and that'scertainly where we get a lot of
travelers from.

(01:45:17):
But the other thing I wanted tocome back to is our community
in Toronto.
So you know, speaking toAmericans, encouraging Americans
to travel obviously iscertainly important, but when we
think about how we want them totravel here and the types of
communities that we have withinthe city and how we support them
.
I'm a huge fan of local markets.

(01:45:39):
Many of our listeners know that,so I love St Lawrence Market, I
love Kensington Market and Iknow you have to collaborate
closely with the communities inToronto as you look to bring
more businesses, because youobviously want to do it the
right way.
So, whether it's working withlocal businesses or artists or
various innovators in Toronto,that will make a terrific

(01:45:59):
visitor experience.
So how does Destination Torontowork with local communities in
the city to achieve that balanceof bringing in the right
travelers with the right waythat when people get here,
you've partnered with all thesebusinesses that they get to
benefit from?
You know the tourists travelingto our city and then travelers

(01:46:27):
leave and say I love Toronto, Ilove that city.
Or a baseball player myfavorite thing is a baseball
player comes here for a visitwhen they're considering signing
for Toronto and they're like Ilove this city, why would I?
I'm happy to come to Canadabecause they actually get a
chance to come here and know ourpeople and our city.
But yeah, how do you work withlocal businesses?

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
Yeah, you know, as an organization, we certainly do
our best to be involved in localcommunity events.
Attend the businesses in person, stay engaged, be on the
lookout for new opportunitiesthat connect people and our
organization.
Many of the new experiences wehelp craft for visitors come
from our personal experiencesfrom our team members across the
city.
We rely on an array of diversebusinesses that make up our

(01:47:08):
tourism economy, and we want tomake sure that we're not only
giving meeting planners andvisitors access to a variety of
options, but also showcasing thetalent that exists within our
community.
In terms of specific communityoutreach here in Toronto, one of
the things we've adoptedrecently is revamping our
membership program.
Strategy behind this for 2025was to make it more accessible

(01:47:32):
so we could allow for broaderparticipation across the
community for different businesscategories.
This in of itself, helps uselevate different events and
services in the city so thatthey're available to people who
are considering Toronto.
The new membership programreally is designed to be
barrier-free, foster inclusivityand build an authentic

(01:47:53):
reflection of the community thatexists in Toronto.

Speaker 2 (01:47:55):
Well, what's interesting there is that, when
I think about artists thattravel to Toronto as well I know
I've mentioned sports a coupleof times given my big
fascination with baseball, but Iwas actually on a flight once
from Toronto to LA because I wastraveling a lot for work and I
was in the business section,which I'm often fortunate to do
when I'm traveling for work butsitting behind me was Slash from

(01:48:18):
Guns N' Roses Cool.
It was super cool for me because, as I grew up skateboarding
listening to Guns N' Roses andhe was awesome Super cool for me
because, as I grew upskateboarding listening to Guns
N' Roses that was my childhoodin Mississauga and those albums
are very familiar to me and I'veseen them perform.
But anyway, he was very muchdressed like Slash.
He was not trying to cover, hehad his hat on and he tipped it

(01:48:38):
down and he he slept on theplane and I waited to my
opportunity when we got to la tojust at least say hello and
meet him, and I ended up havinga fantastic chat with him for,
uh, about five or ten minutes,uh after we landed we got a
photo together and he was justtelling me how much he loves
playing the city of toronto andit seemed genuine.
I'm sure you know rock stars geton stage and say, you know,

(01:48:58):
welcome toronto.
And everyone goes crazy.
But it was very sincere, likehe was saying it's one of his
favorite places to play in theworld because of the crowd and
the reaction and he just lovesthe city of Toronto and it was
heartening for me to hear thatbecause obviously this is, you
know, a legend within the musicindustry.
So I wanted to ask you, on thatnote, when you think about
working with musicians orvarious artists, how does

(01:49:22):
Destination Toronto get involvedin that capacity to bring, you
know, obviously businesstravelers is big, but like
organizing events and trying tobring in these big acts that are
going to bring that money forpeople to the city, because
people travel into Toronto tocome and see these artists when
they're performing here- Sure,you know whether we're working

(01:49:43):
with local musicians or big nametalent from outside the city.

Speaker 4 (01:49:52):
Agree, our role is to get them here and get the
visitors here so that we canleverage the beautiful venues we
have in the city to showcaseamazing talent from around the
world, and that within our citywe have a wonderful local
network that is energetic andpartners both with agencies
around the world to bring thattalent in and also to leverage
local unknowns that may be herebut may end up providing a

(01:50:12):
wonderful big show.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
Given Destination Toronto's important role in
bringing these big events to thecity.
We have a number of large,large scale events coming up.
I mean, toronto just continuesto grow as a as you referred to,
as a world class destination,and I certainly like that
distinction, because there arevery few cities in the world
that attract the events at thescale that you'll see in Toronto

(01:50:36):
.
I mean, one thing that mostpeople don't even realize is
that Toronto is in the greaterToronto area.
We always refer to this as theGTA, given a lot of people grow
up outside the city but stillvery much connected to the
ecosystem that is Toronto.
So the greater Toronto areamakes up about 10 million people
and this is like the thirdlargest urban center in North
America third or fourth,depending exactly how you

(01:50:58):
measure it, or look at thegeographic area, forth,
depending exactly how youmeasure it, or, you know, look
at the geographic area.
But the point of that is is thatyou know when you think about
new york or la, I mean torontois right up there in terms of
what the draw potential is forartists and for events.
So that's, that's something Ijust wanted to highlight because
I think most people just andmyself until I I learned that
stat.
It was like well, that's why wehave all the sports teams and

(01:51:18):
that's why we have all theseamazing venues.
It's like we have thecommercial power to be able to
bring that scale of peopletogether for a Taylor Swift
concert, for example.
But tell us some of the eventsthat you have been involved in
with, like local partnershipsthat have kind of helped elevate
Toronto's global appeal.

(01:51:41):
What are some of the big eventsthat you guys have been
involved in and what are some ofthe ones that are coming up?

Speaker 4 (01:51:45):
I think one of the most compelling in recent years
in terms of a successful localpartnership that has really
helped elevate Toronto's overallappeal would have to be our
inclusion in the Michelin Guideand our partnership with
Michelin.
So we're on our third edition ofthe Michelin Guide and our
partnership with Michelin.
So we're on our third editionof the Michelin Guide in 2024.
It featured selections fromover 100 restaurants and 30

(01:52:09):
different cuisine types.
Toronto was lucky enough tohave two fully engaged Michelin
star restaurants, 15 with oneMichelin star, 23 at the bid,
gourmand level, 61 recommendedand then one green star awarded
for commitment to sustainablepractices within the restaurant.
So you know, with over 9,000restaurants in our city, this

(01:52:30):
was really an importantpartnership for us to tell our
story, to elevate further on aglobal scale why Toronto's
cuisine can't be missed.
It gives us that internationaldistinction and really is a
testament to our strength in thefood scene further on a global
scale why Toronto's cuisinecan't be missed.
It gives us that internationaldistinction and really is a
testament to our strength in thefood scene.

Speaker 2 (01:52:46):
Yeah, yorkville is one of my favorite neighborhoods
.
I know a couple of restaurantsin Yorkville got that
designation and I always foundit frustrating that Michelin
Star had not recognized Torontoin the past.
And I think this is where tothe earlier point about you know
it's my favorite city, but notnecessarily on the world class,
but it's becoming that more andmore as the city continues to
grow.
I mean, it's been one of thefastest growing cities in North

(01:53:07):
America over the last decadewith, you know, new condos being
built up and immigration levelsand and so we certainly have a
great diversity of cuisine andworld-class chefs that choose to
make Toronto home.
And I know we also have somebig events coming up.
I was actually talking aboutthe World Cup earlier to
Elizabeth and what some of theplans there, with Exhibition

(01:53:28):
Place being involved and BMOField hosting that.
What are some of the other bigevents that people can look
forward to traveling to Torontofor?

Speaker 4 (01:53:38):
Yeah, certainly.
Fifa kicks off next June and weare super excited to be one of
the cities hosting games for theWorld Cup.
Looking ahead as well into 2026, the Toronto Tempo, the first
WNBA team from outside of the US, will officially begin their
season in Toronto in 2026.
You know a feather in our capto have yet another professional

(01:54:00):
sports team that I'm verycertain the community of Toronto
and surrounding area willsupport.
Myself, yes, a longtime BlueJays fan, but more so hockey is
my game of choice.
So I'm a nervous Leafs fan atthis stage.
Delighted that we've made it asfar as we have, and fingers
crossed that we'll get to thenext stage, and I have no doubt
that the WNBA will deliver onall cylinders for Toronto, as

(01:54:24):
our other sports teams continueto do.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I still remember when Raptorscame to Toronto and Vince Carter
and that whole exciting era,and I was one of the first
people when the Raptors won theworld championship.
I was eagerly celebrating onthe streets of Toronto and that
victory parade was justextraordinary and it just shows
how an organization comes toToronto, the community embraces

(01:54:48):
and basketball to your pointabout mentioning the Toronto
Temple and the WNBA.
Being a baseball fan growing upin the city, my parents from
England they wanted us toexperience more of like a North
American sport, so they put usin baseball not in hockey,
interestingly enough, although Imade sure I put my son in
hockey.
But our daughter playedbasketball and loved basketball,
and basketball, as I know fromcoaching baseball with the

(01:55:12):
Raptors, has had recordenrollment for these next
generations of kids playingbasketball Far more kids play
basketball in Toronto than theydo baseball and so it's perfect
timing to introduce a women'steam, and so I was excited when
the name got announced because Iactually really do like Toronto
Tempo, I like the whole and Ilike the branding and I think

(01:55:33):
it'll be a great addition to thecity for sure, and I think a
lot of people will visit Torontoto come and see women's
basketball at that elite level,and so it's exciting for us to
be in a place where you don'thave to travel to those things.
People travel to us.
So, heather, there's a couple ofthings I want to ask you, and
one of them is that, as we sithere together at GBTA and I have

(01:55:56):
actually heard about theirevent that's in Denver later
this year that has 6,000 peopleI've come to know the GBTA over
the past several weeks inpreparing for this and then
getting a chance to sit downwith Suzanne, the CEO, who was
extraordinary.
I found her really fascinating,a great person to interview,
much like yourself, andElizabeth as well.
So I think having these threeconversations together has been

(01:56:16):
really complimentary.
But the thing that stood outfor me about GBTA is just how
important Toronto is for theirannual event.
I think people have gotten apretty good sense on this
discussion about why they mightconsider bringing their event or
conference to Toronto.
But what else would you add tothat for someone listening to
this?
That their eyes have been opento wait a second?

(01:56:37):
Gbta goes there.
Wait a second.
There's this exhibition placeor all these things about
Toronto.
I didn't realize what would yousay to those someone listening
to this that might be interestedin bringing their event or
conference to Toronto.

Speaker 4 (01:56:47):
You know, I would say we're the best choice for
organizations who have a growthstrategy around international.
Toronto is an excellent placeto dip your toe into an
international light destination.
If you're an Americanassociation, american
corporation or just anothercorporation worldwide that's
looking to get into the NorthAmerican events space, toronto

(01:57:10):
offers that international slashNorth American opportunity and
with that it's easy to get to.
You know, I mentioned earlierdirect flights from from 200 to
180 destinations.
60% of the US can get here inless than 90 minutes by a direct
flight to internationalairports.
This makes the ease of businesstravel very quick and efficient

(01:57:33):
, which is important to peoplewho are moving around the world
for business every day.
Once you get to Toronto, you'rejust organically welcomed by the
diverse multiculturalpopulation.
You know 53% of Torontonianswere born outside of Canada.
This isn't lip service, this isactually who we are.
Fun fact, my husband isAustralian.

(01:57:53):
He is part of that 53%.
You know I'm born and raised inToronto.
So you know, when people walkaround our city, wherever they
come from, they hear languages,they hear dialects that sound
just like them.
So it makes them feel welcome.
You know, layered on top ofthat are two fabulous convention
centers, over 20,000 hotelrooms.
We have all of the products andservices, plus a welcoming,

(01:58:18):
organic, safe community to bringbusiness events to Toronto.
So it's the best choice, it'sthe only choice.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
Yeah, Well, the great thing for me about being here
at GBTA this week I was actuallysupposed to be in Australia at
the ATE conference and one ofthe things that they kindly
invited me to go over and to doa keynote, and that was
originally the plan, but GBTAhad reached out and I committed
to doing this event and I'm soglad.
I mean, I love Australia, butthis is home and one of the
things that was so great for methis week, given that I do

(01:58:45):
travel so much for work, was Iwas able to travel 20 minutes
from my house down here toExhibition Place and to be able
to interview people from aroundthe world that have come here
for this event, and I just Ilove being able to talk about
our city no-transcript isprobably your best place to go

(01:59:26):
as it relates to meetings.

Speaker 4 (01:59:27):
Also, instagram at Destination Toronto Lots of
great content in there to follow, to learn about the city, the
vibe itself, and we look forwardto welcoming you.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
That's great, thank you.
And definitely the socialchannels.
That's one of the things thatstood out to me.
You guys do a great job onInstagram in particular, and
that's certainly where meetingpeople where they're at today to
highlight all the amazingthings that are happening around
the city on the social channels, because I all of a sudden see
something that I'm like you guysuse the hashtag meet in Toronto
and I often yeah, I seedevelopments that I'm like, oh,

(01:59:57):
I didn't realize that was comingup or that was going on.
So I find it a great source ofinspiration to stay connected to
the city.
But, heather, it's been a realpleasure.
Thank you again to you and theDestination Toronto team, to
Andrew, to Manisha, to all theamazing people that we've had a
chance to work with atDestination Toronto to bring
this special spotlight episodetogether.
I certainly look forward tokeeping in touch and continuing

(02:00:19):
to promote this great citytogether and thank you again for
joining us.

Speaker 4 (02:00:23):
Wonderful.
Look forward to talking to youagain soon.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
Thanks so much for joining us on this special event
spotlight of travel trendsfocused on the GBTA hosted here
in Toronto, canada.
I hope you enjoyed theconversations we just had with
Suzanne Newfung, the CEO of GBTA, as well as Laura Purdy, the
Managing Director of ExhibitionPlace, and then we just finished
off with Heather Neal, theManaging Director of Destination
Toronto.

(02:00:46):
If you want more information onGBTA, just check it out at
gbtaorg.
You'll be able to findinformation about their work in
North America, specifically inCanada, as well as their
business travel index, which youdefinitely need to check out,
and you heard me talk to Suzanneabout that.
I'm going to be following thatclosely and I'm sure many of our
listeners will as well.

(02:01:07):
And don't forget, we do postclips and highlights on all of
our social channels at TravelTrends Podcast, on Instagram,
youtube and LinkedIn, so be sureto look out for updates there,
and then we send out a monthlynewsletter.
So check out Travel TrendsPodcastcom and subscribe for the
latest update of our episodesand our travel plans for the
next month.
Thanks so much for joining uson this special event spotlight.

(02:01:28):
Thanks again to the DestinationToronto team for bringing us in
for this GBTA conference.
It was a real pleasure to workwith you and the team and I
certainly look forward to beingback for GBTA in 2026.
Thanks again for joining us.
Until next time, safe travels.

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