How to Succeed with a Membership Model in Travel with Joan Roca

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
and I think it's part of what we were discussing
about how meaningful travel canbe.
You know like we all struggleto spend quality time kids with
our loved ones, so I thinktravel is that opportunity for
many people hello everyone andwelcome back to travel trends.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is your host, dan christian, and today we're
going to look at a membershipmodel for success in travel,
featuring Joanne Rocha, who runsthe Essentialist, which is
essentialistcom.
But before we get into ourconversation with Joanne, I
wanted to highlight theexperience we had last week at
the Focusrite conference inBarcelona, which was truly
extraordinary.
We had 25 interviews of peoplethat were lining up to

(00:43):
participate in our Travel Trendsevent, spotlight from Focusrite
.
We had a number of listenersthat actually came to the event
because they'd heard about it onour podcast and that special
preview episode I had done withFlorence and Pete Como, and I
just wanted to acknowledgepeople like Andy Heddington from
Adido, as well as Pauline fromFlytographer, alex Reagan, who

(01:05):
runs Zoftify and Torsetta, toname a few.
But we were so blown away bythe response from our listeners
and I just wanted to say a bigthank you to those of you that
actually waited patiently tospeak to me.
Between interviews I usuallyhad two or three people that
were waiting to have aconversation and I just wanted
to say it means the absoluteworld to me.
I love doing this podcast, Ilove the travel industry and I'm

(01:28):
committed to showcasing as manyof these incredible stories of
people that work in thisindustry, that are really
leading the future, and for me,it was incredibly reassuring
that we're on the right pathwith travel trends, and I just
wanted to extend my sincerethank you to everyone that came
up and said hello, and a numberof you that actually won't even
be in the episode but justwanted to come up and say how

(01:50):
much you love the show and gaveme some really valuable feedback
and guidance as we prepare forseason six, and I just wanted to
extend that to all of ourlisteners that I'm very keen to
know who you want us to feature,the topics you want us to focus
on going into season six andour AI summit, so feel free to
reach out to me anytime.
Dan, at Travel Trends Podcast,I'm genuinely delighted to hear

(02:10):
from you, so feel free to reachout.
And thank you again to Pete andthe entire Focusrite team for
making us such a key part of theevent and really integrating us
onto the showroom floor.
That was really special, and Ijust also wanted to highlight
that, going into the event inSan Diego, we're going to
actually bring out additionalteam members.
Both Melanie will be there andCatherine, so we'll actually

(02:31):
have a wider team that will helpsupport more production and be
able to turn some of thoseinterviews around that much more
quickly.
That spotlight will be out inthe next couple of weeks, and we
also have just released ourspotlight episode from the
Aviation Festival and we havethe Adventure Travel and Trade
Association coming up.
And we also have just releasedour spotlight episode from the
Aviation Festival and we havethe Adventure Travel and Trade
Association coming up.
So look out for those eventspotlights, as well as the

(02:51):
Focusrite one coming up shortly.
We'll be right back.
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(04:45):
And now back to the show.
Finally, I wanted toacknowledge a few of the new
sponsors that have come on boardfor travel trends going into
season six and our plans for thenext year, which includes pay
compass as well as hollow flyand continue commitment from
companies like propellic.
I just wanted to acknowledgethat it makes all the difference

(05:05):
to us to be able to have thatsupport and commitment from the
industry as we continue toexpand travel trends, introduce
our events and additionalinitiatives.
So it's terrific to see theinterest in our partnerships and
we're certainly committed togrowing those in the most
beneficial way for our partners.
So a big thanks again toPayCompass and Holofly and to
each of our new partners thathave come on board, especially

(05:26):
for our AI Summit.
We had an incredible response.
We've just issued the pressrelease that you can see all of
the amazing partners, includingTourRadar that is co-sponsoring
the event with us, and you'llsee all of the partnerships
listed there when you check outTravelTrendscom.
Under our events and our AISummit, we still have our early
bird pricing available, so makesure you take advantage of that
to plan to join us at the end ofOctober.

(05:49):
Now speaking of events, Iactually met today's guest at
the Virtuoso conference lastyear in Las Vegas.
As many of you know, they runan extraordinary global
gathering that brings togethermore than 5,000 people across
the globe to the Bellagio inAugust, and they've done so for
the last 20 years.
My good friend Gilad runs atech day right before the
conference kicks off that bringstogether some of the most

(06:09):
amazing startups and techinnovators.
I've had the privilege to gofor the last two years and I
highly encourage any of youconsidering that to definitely
get involved with Virtuoso.
You can listen to a few ofthose highlight videos and also
you can actually check out theepisode with Matthew Upchurch,

(06:29):
the founder of Virtuoso, to getthe whole incredible backstory
on the organization and it stillremains one of our most popular
podcast episodes.
So definitely a huge fan ofVirtuoso and the team and the
event that they put on.
And part of the reason Imentioned that is that I'm
unfortunately not able to gothis year, given that we
actually have our kids headingoff to university.
They're twins and we've madesome prior family travel

(06:51):
commitments.
And it relates to Joanne Rocha,who, when I met with him last
year in Las Vegas before werecorded the episode you're
going to hear today, he wastelling me about his pilgrimage
walk with his son before he wentto university last year.
And I said to Joanne I'm like Ilove this idea and I mentioned
it to my son and he saidabsolutely no way, I'm not doing
a walking tour.
So I tried, joanne, just so youknow.
But we do have other amazingplans to be in Europe that I'm

(07:12):
still looking forward to beforethey both head off and we all of
a sudden become empty nesters.
So it was great to connect withJoanne on a personal level, but
ultimately what was mostfascinating is this incredible
company that he's builtEssentialist.
Very few companies havesucceeded with a membership
model in travel and he is trulyan exception, and it became

(07:32):
clear very quickly why that wasthe case.
Their whole focus is ondelivering extraordinary
customer service withexceptional travel plans and
itineraries.
Through this membership model,he's even kept increasing the
price and his business keepsgrowing because it's built on a
solid foundation with a team anda product offering that clearly
his guests love.
He actually connected me withhis team after we met to prove

(07:53):
it to me and they actuallyprepared some trip options and
to say I was impressed would bean understatement.
Now let's put this in context.
Membership models are one ofthe most important business
success stories in otherindustries and a main driver of
profit.
Think Costco.
Costco generates most of theirprofit from their membership
model, or Amazon Prime, which Igladly pay for just to get that

(08:16):
free shipping and additionalbenefits, but ultimately those
initiatives drive loyalty, soincreased spending and,
importantly, a recurring revenuestream Both fantastic.
However, many travel businesseshave struggled to implement
anything close to a membershipmodel and I think part of this
is based on the fact that therewas a time when timeshares were

(08:37):
a big thing and it left a badtaste in people's mouths.
There are a few companies thathave succeeded, and one other
example to reference isInspirato, which costs about
$30,000 a year to become amember.
They offer luxury accommodationoptions, but there are very few
success stories in this space.
But when you hear essentialistyou'll understand why.

(08:57):
And to make my point, I alsowas thinking about doing a panel
discussion for membership intravel and the reality is there
wouldn't be a lot of peoplesitting around the table.
So I decided to focus ourconversation with Joanne today
and look at essentialists.
But one other exception I wouldhighlight to our listeners is
the AI first travel planningservice called Layla.

(09:18):
They actually acquired a friendof mine, shai Gabai, his
business you know coolest nameever, but his business was
called Roam Around.
They acquired that businesslast year and, as they've been
scaling, they have implemented amembership model and are seeing
incredible success.
So it can and does work.
So, on that note, let meintroduce you to one of the most

(09:38):
forward-thinking leaders in thetravel industry, joanne Rocha.
Joanne, welcome to TravelTrends.
It's so great to have you withus.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thank you, dan.
I'm so much looking forwardAgain, like as we connected
during Vegas, you know I waslooking forward to this
conversation too and really,really admire what you're doing
with your podcast.
It's really amazing.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate that, and Iknow we'd noted at the time
that we have some commonalitiesin our background with digital
marketing and travel, and you'vegone on to create this
incredible company that I didn'tknow anything about and I'm
sure many of our listeners aregoing to learn about now for the
first time.
So I would love if we couldstart, if you wouldn't mind,
giving everyone a bit of anoverview of the Essentialist.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
The Essentialist is a membership service that
basically tries to solve everyneed for travel from our members
.
Our members are very passionatetravelers, curious culturally,
they love to discover the placesthey visit, and so then, travel
is such an important part oftheir lifestyle and, I would say
, a meaningful part of theirfamily lives and personal goals

(10:39):
so we basically put up thiscompany that gets 100% of their
needs.
We combine a digital approachso we're kind of a digital
business and have app-centric.
We also have this personaltouch, where customers will get
an assigned account manager thatwill take care of all their

(11:00):
travel needs and can onboardthem to the service.
And, on the other hand, we havethis editorial approach that we
will probably touch on more aswe discuss that.
We are very much focused onsourcing the best, the latest,
the more insightfulrecommendations and destinations
through journalists andtastemakers on the ground.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, I think one of the things that stood out to me
is that, when we were chattingthrough the membership-based
model, the growth that you'veseen, especially within the
luxury vertical, all thesefascinating trends that clearly
you can speak to in ourconversation today, but I guess
also just starting where it allbegan, you were a little ahead
of your time.
It was 2016 that you actuallygot this business off the ground
and you're based in Mallorca,one of the most beautiful places

(11:42):
in the world you could possiblybe based.
I know you've got offices inNew York and Mexico City, but,
yeah, tell us how you actuallywhat inspired you to create
Essentialist back in 2016.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I think we share a background of more like
corporate business.
In my case, it was a lot aroundonline travel and even big
corporations and more in thistransition from offline to
online, but more in the massmarket, and I always felt that
there was something missing at apersonal level.
So it wasn't any more about justmaking things bookable, which

(12:16):
was the kind of the first travelrevolution or online travel
revolution.
I felt that there was like awhole complexity of travel and a
whole of like meaningful partof travel that had not
transitioned to online.
I was a lot more aroundinspiration, you know,
destination insights,itineraries, trips that become

(12:38):
meaningful to me because of mypersonal preferences, so the
whole personalization andintimacy that I believe it's
connected to travel and I wantedto explore that.
So that was my.
My goal was always to connectthis this world of inspiration
and editorial, if you want,discovery of destinations,
cultural, focused with actuallythe ability to book and have

(13:01):
like a five star service or or asix-star service connected to
it.
So from day one, my goal was tocreate the kind of travel,
modern, luxury travel servicethat I would love to use.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, let's talk about exactly that, how it works
and how a customer uses theplatform, because I've always
been intrigued by the idea ofmembership-based travel and
there's been a few companiesthat have entered the space, but
none that I've seen that arequite like yours, especially
given that is like a, aconcierge type service that um
essentially connects you to kindof the most knowledgeable
experts in the world that willgive you um the most

(13:37):
personalized advice andrecommendations.
And I know you are kindly keenfor me to be able to experience
the platform after our chat,which I'm still very keen to do.
But, yeah, just walk us through, if you wouldn't mind, how the
membership-based model works andsort of the value it provides
to all the members.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think, being a membership service, it comes
from our approach to travel.
For us, travel is such apersonal element of your
lifestyle.
It probably combines everythingmany of our listeners will
appreciate because they comefrom the industry.
That's probably everything, andeverything that you have on

(14:14):
your lifestyle is connected totravel how you like to eat, your
cultural preferences, if youwant to wake up early and have a
full day of adventure.
So you want to, you know, justrelax and lay on the beach, or
and what are?
What is your actual motivationfor travel?
So what we found out is that inorder for us to deliver our

(14:34):
promise, we needed to know themembers, the people, very well.
So it wasn't a superficialbooking.
It was an in-depthunderstanding of you know, Dan,
who you are, what you're lookingfor when you're traveling, what
are your passions.
So that led to membership.
We didn't feel that we couldadd enough value with one
booking.
It was actually a longstandingrelationship and also the

(14:56):
reaching with the member changes.
It's not like our goal is theend goal, it's like a loyalty.
You know that we continuebuilding trips for these amazing
members for a long time andactually this idea of
discovering their passions, offinding the right recipe.
You know like you're alwayschanging the recipe a little bit
to make it perfect for thosemembers.
So that was the beginning, andeverything that we've built up

(15:19):
towards has been around thisidea of how we can better do it
for those members that considertravel as a significant part of
their lifestyle and probably oneof the things that makes their
life whole.
You know, like the work-lifeand you know, travel-life
balance.
We basically have this as aprocess.

(15:40):
When people sign up, they areassigned to a membership
experience manager, which isbasically your go-to person.
They tend to know you onboardyou, so there's a conversation
where we learn everything aboutthe members.
Who is on that family, what'stheir travel calendar, what are
they passionate about, how theylike to travel, so we can really

(16:01):
build a personal travelexperience for them.
And then the interaction afterthat becomes very much.
Whatever channel you prefer,you know people only engage with
the app and chat.
Some people will like videocalls, some people like email,
so we basically are likeagnostic in terms of the channel
that they want to reach out tous.
But while we were very clearfrom day one and I think that's

(16:23):
part of the experience is thatevery one of our members is
digital, but I think everybodyis digital these days.
I think that there's no longeranything like an offline person
good or bad but that's howpeople engage these days.
So the APNs are digital.
They have the access to theirtrips, to their confirmation.
Everything is there, like theaccess to their trips, to their

(16:45):
confirmation, Everything is.
We have this, you know, an appthat shows you all the
information and confirmationsand the IT is in a beautiful
format and I think it's kind ofhow you experience it.
And the last bit that weconnected is we are talking
about a crowd which is verywell-traveled.
So we have a community ofmembers that they travel very
often, they know the places verywell, and so we have a
community of members that theytravel very often, they know the
places very well and they reachout to us because they travel.

(17:09):
It's a very important part oftheir lifestyle and they want to
unlock even more value.
How do we add value to acustomer who has been to Hong
Kong a couple of times?
So this is how and why.
You know, connected to thereason to creating this company
is we have a huge respect to,you know, the editorial element

(17:30):
and we, for us, for me theinspiration came many times from
these journalists.
And you know tastemakers aswell.
You know, you know the chefwho's recommending the her
favorite restaurant in hong kong, but then the editor of Vogue
or Condé Nast, or you knowTravel and Leisure or New York
Times, at least in location, andthey basically are you know,

(17:53):
they understand the location,they're curious, they have all
the contacts and they they arethe best ones to to tell us the
story of the location with withtheir point of view.
So that's kind of you, thestory of the location with their
point of view.
So that's kind of, you know,like a long explanation of how
this works.
But we basically try to make itvery seamless for the members
that they can engage with us.
We know them very well, we planand inspire them throughout the

(18:14):
year.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, what interests me about your business model and
especially the timeliness ofour conversation in 2025, is
it's the confluence of two majortrends.
One is the high touch customerservice, especially with luxury
clientele, where there has beena renaissance.
As you know, in season four weactually had a deep dive into
travel advisors because of therenaissance of travel advisors,
and Flight Center sponsored thatseries and now they've come on

(18:37):
as a title sponsor of our seasonfive, and I think that that
overwhelming trend is clear thatmore and more people are
turning to travel advisorsbecause of the complexity of
booking travel direct.
They're searching more sites,it's more time consuming and
it's more of a hassle factor.
So you've got the personaltouch.
But then the other confluence,of course, is technology, and
everyone's talking about AI andwe'll obviously touch on that a

(18:58):
bit today, but in terms ofautomating parts of the user
journey.
So I guess the one thing I wouldlike to ask you in terms of
building out this member-basedcommunity is how do you see
those two coming together?
So you know, you've built thisbusiness really over the last
decade.
I mean, it's 2016, it'sincredible, and then here we are
in 2025.
So how, I guess, have youcombined those two elements.

(19:19):
So from a member perspectiveyou know you mentioned they have
the app, so I guess.
So from a member perspective,you mentioned the app.
So I guess, how do you combinetechnology and then the personal
touch?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, it's the secret .
Nick, I absolutely get whatyou're saying and I think that
you touch on some of thesetopics in Season 4.
So I think, for me, the key isthat we're kind of over the
technology for the sake oftechnology.
So I think you have to usetechnology for the ultimate goal

(19:50):
of making our customers'experience better.
I think the travel advisorsplay that role in a way that
there's some things that youjust don't want to automate,
while some things you want toautomate to make the last mile
delivery even better.
I put the example of theeditors made to make the last
mile delivery even better.
I put the example of theeditors Okay, we, we.
I don't believe that you cansolve the content that we have,

(20:11):
you know, by algorithms or likemashing Google places and
TripAdvisor and something else.
I just don't believe that weever replaced a point of view of
somebody that you trust andthat has, you know this, this
personal connection to the place, somebody that you trust and
that has this personalconnection to the place.
So I think that that is one waythat we're protecting this
human touch, but that's a hugedifferentiation to us.

(20:38):
The second thing would be travelis a complex combination.
Our itineraries have an averageof 28 items on them, so it
means that people are doing manythings, many reservations.
Everything needs to be tiedtogether, like how long does it
take you to get from A to B?
What are the passions that theyhave?
So maybe they want to visitthis museum, but they are so
passionate about it that theywant to meet with a creator and

(21:00):
spend some extra time.
I think there's a lot ofdelicate balances there, that,
if you want to get it right,it's a complex logistics and a
complex knowledge environment.
So I think that the traveladvisors definitely have built
this knowledge over the yearsand I think that for us, the
ultimate goal is to be able touse technology to go beyond.
So beyond would be, in our case, would be hyper-personalization

(21:23):
.
So building trips are uniquelydifferent for every one of our
members to everywhere they go,and that two members are not
aligned, therefore, the ideasare not going to be aligned.
So the other day, the technologyteam was telling me that we can
make a million combinations oftrips to Paris.
So a million different trips toParis.
This is the beauty oftechnology Paris, so a million

(21:44):
different trips to Paris.
This is the beauty oftechnology.
You know, like, I don't imagineeven the best travel advisor
that could put so many optionsinto work, and also they're
probably seeing a lot of them.
Also, for me, travel advisorsplaying that role of complexity
and simplification Awesome, andI think that the best service is
usually provided by a humanthat connects with you and can
engage with you.

(22:05):
But, you know, the technologyfor us is like is basically
automating things that under theyou know that you don't see in
the surface but actually makeshumans lose time to do things
that could be automated.
So that's how we are approachingtechnology and in you know,
like, let's say, two I don'tknow if this one is this one
like automating things thatdon't touch the customer

(22:26):
experience but let our people bemore efficient.
The second part would be thingsthat touch the customer, which
is actually the digitalinteraction.
Speed of delivering of the appare like that.
They can, you know, justnavigate the itinerary a lot
better, see confirmations, andwe have so much room to explore

(22:47):
in that sense that people canjust experience the destination
better because we have thetechnology to support them while
traveling.
Like chat we have aChinese-style server you can
call me, you can email, but chat, for when people are traveling.
We found that it's the desiredway to communicate with us, so
we have that enabled throughtechnology and many other

(23:08):
interactive features that youwouldn't be able to do or you
wouldn't want to have the usualdelay of connecting to a travel
agent back and forth.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
For those people who are multitasking right now, and
many of our listeners are theymay be on your website, so
essentialistcom for those of youwho haven't found it yet
They'll see.
The membership fee is $2,600.
And this is one of the things Imean.
You highlighted a number ofinteresting examples there,
especially around technology andthe customer service element.
From a technology point of view, clearly, customers just want

(23:37):
to know that it works and theywant to have certain tools that
they have access to.
But really, when it comes tothe customer service and how
your team, the editors and theuh, the team that put these
itineraries together, I'd loveto understand and to clarify the
, the value add for, you know,for members like that, and maybe
the best way to to to approachthat would be to understand.
You know who your members are,um, so, uh, what does a?

(24:00):
Um, a typical essentialistmember look like and where are
they?
I know the US is one of yourbiggest markets and North
America, but you're, of course,based in Europe and so, yeah,
tell us a little bit more aboutwhat I guess a typical customer
profile looks like for theessentialist.
Likely an affluent or high networth individual is my
assumption, but you tell us andalso you know when someone's

(24:23):
thinking about that $2, 2600,which you know for, uh, for
affluent travelers, isn't asignificant expense but, um, it
does provide a.
You know there's a barrier toentry to make sure that you are
going to, you know, to benefitfrom this.
So, yeah, tell us a bit aboutmore who the customer is for
essentialist, and then what thevalue they're getting for that
annual membership fee yes, now,definitely.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Let's say we are targeting an Australian traveler
.
Like you know that it's luxurytravel not maybe doesn't need to
be the top 0.1%, but we do.
Why we do this is because weare actually creating the warmth
of them.
So the initial motivation forchoosing something cannot be

(25:08):
only the price.
That's what we found.
We're targeting people who canchoose.
It's like a luxury that noteverybody has.
But for the value of ourproposition, we need to operate
with customers that have theability to choose based on a
beautiful hotel In Amsterdam.
It doesn't need to be the tophotel, it doesn't need to be

(25:30):
like the luxurious suite.
If they're looking for aboutique hotel, we're basically
rooted on editorialrecommendations and they will
highlight different things fordifferent profiles.
But we know there's a minimumentry price and if anybody who
has traveled recently knows thatthings are becoming pretty

(25:50):
expensive out there, so we tryto set the expectations right.
We work with boutique four-star, five-star hotels, but mostly
five-star hotels is our core orvillas.
So that's one thing, the otherthing in terms of the profile.
It's funny because the otherthing that defines our audience
beyond a certain level of beingwell-off is culture.

(26:14):
So the couriers, they travelfor a reason that is discovery,
connection, local connection,history, fashion, gastronomy.
There's a lot built into thosetrips that they want to maximize
.
So then, travel is a way toconnect to their passions and to

(26:34):
their family and their passions.
So that's something that we,you know here, it's like our
mantra, you know, like it's aconnection, an opportunity to
themselves, you know, to thething that they really love
doing and they cannot reallyexperience that throughout the
year and to their loved ones.
So for them, traveling becomesthat discovery opportunity, that

(26:55):
connection opportunity, andthey place a high value into
those days that they'retraveling and it kind of gets
them the energy to go throughthe rest of the year.
And they love the planningprocess, they love the discovery
, the post.
When they come back from thetrip they're singing about the
things they've done and thethings they've learned.
So that's another definingelement of our members and I

(27:19):
would say that then, beyond that, it's a lot more variety that
you would think.
Beyond that, it's a lot morevariety than you would think.
I think we have people whocould be in their 70s, 60s, 70s.
Kids have flown the nest, haveyou know aim and want to catch
up with all of those trips, andsometimes they will get the
family together traveling,sometimes they will travel by

(27:42):
themselves.
But we also have, like, evenyounger generations that come
from the technology industry andthey, of course, there's
different motivations for theprofiles, but I think that they
are all meeting themselves withthis idea of travel and
discovery as something veryvaluable for them.
And in reality, this is notthat you if they place value and

(28:07):
they see the value.
Going back to the point of theold values, like we have a
broader of the networks forcapturing the right, you know,
building the right from all thesources of information that we
have.
So they value creation a lot.
So creation is an overused word, but in our case it's truly
about creation.

(28:28):
So that's the source ofeverything.
We have access to places and topeople that are not usually
available through the tourismchannel, so it's a very
authentic, very local creationof the destination.
We have experiences and uniqueaccess to many things that are

(28:49):
happening locally, like meetinga local chef or a local fashion
designer or an artist.
This level of connections wouldbe my second point of value
that people love when we canmake those things happen.
And again going back to thehuman element, if you can
connect with a human on thedestination that shares your
passions.

(29:09):
That's usually the bestpossible experience for our
members.
And then there's something whichI would call more the
logistical part.
We take care of the logistics.
We give them 24-7.
It's one booking, fullconfirmation.
They don't have to worry aboutanything and everything's taken
care of, everything's, you know,flawless.
And I would say the last thingcomes from more, even like the

(29:32):
dream.
Last step, it's not evenexecuting their trips or
planning the right itinerary,and then being 24 hours of them,
it's about okay, you, we areenriching.
Their next trick because that'ssometimes the most difficult
thing for our members it's like,oh, I've been there, I've been
there.
Yeah, I went to Italy.
The last three summers, I wentto the south of Italy.
So what's next?

(29:53):
So we have the editors as hugeinspiration resources and maybe
we will see wine harvesting inMareira, or going to a secluded
place in Montenegro, ordiscovering this beautiful town
in Mexico that has somethingsuper unique for history and
culture that you're going tolove, or going to the Teatro

(30:17):
Nacional of Buenos Aires,because one of the ballerinas
there who's heading the teatro?
She will be able to welcome you.
And I know that you'repassionate about money.
No.
So I think it is having thatdream aspect and planning and
execution.
I think in too many of ourmembers they said that we

(30:39):
brought back joy to planning thetrip, being in a stressful part
of it.
Something very important hasalways been, you know and
there's many other ways to planyour trips, or by yourself or
through the help of a traveladvisor but I think that we
combine.
Something quite unique is thatthe ultimate itinerary is going
to be different, the ultimateaccess that we have is different
and, on the other hand, theprocess of getting there and

(31:02):
enjoying it is quite unique.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
I would say yeah well , you nailed on a real valuable
point right there, which is thatthe frustration factor and
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That's P-R-O-P-E-L-L-I-Ccomno-transcript.
Now back to the show.
One of the things you also hadhighlighted to me when we had a

(34:18):
chance to meet in person was thefact that you've been gradually
increasing the price, like themembership benefits, one of them
being this annual travelconsultation, which I love the
idea of, because I do a callwith our financial planner at
the beginning of the year.
I'd like to do one with mytravel financial planner

(35:01):
no-transcript.
So a lot of these things stoodout to me.
I guess the part I'd like toknow is when you mentioned
hotels of course, that's, Iimagine, a good part of your
business and then what you dowith the whole experience about
connecting them to some of theselocal guides and having these
really unique experiences.
I mean, what are the types ofexperiences that you're seeing?

(35:22):
Essentialist members book onthe platform Because I was keen
to know if you did flights andclearly you do so you have a
private flight desk.
But, yeah, what are some of theexperiences that you're seeing?
Is it mostly that you areputting together kind of a
packaged holiday where you'reputting together the flight and
the hotel and the experiences?
Are you also selling safaris?

(35:43):
Like, what are you seeing in2025 as the main driver for what
people are booking through yourservice?

Speaker 1 (35:51):
So, yeah, we do it.
Also, it looks a lot more likeif you had all the time in the
world and all the connections inthe world and you put your own
little itinerary together,because we're kind of quite
friendly towards the.
You know very much on the sideof the member if you want and
that's part of the membershipfee that they get and you can
feel that value of them sayinglike, okay, pay a membership fee

(36:12):
, but this, they work for me,they care about me and you know
we're putting together this ideaand they're putting it for me
based on my preferences.
Sometimes we will recommend youthat hey, explore the
neighborhood by yourself.
It's a couple of places thatour editor from some book is
recommending you go and do yourshopping there because it's an
amazing fashion house.

(36:33):
But it's a self-explore, let'ssay, something that you explore
by yourself.
We believe a lot of theauthenticity as part of the
travel experience.
So I think there's somethingabout the alignment that we
provide to our members that theydo feel that, okay, these
people are working for me, asyou said about your financial
advice.
So that's kind of the positionwe are with the members.
We're really, really looking atthe long term here.

(36:54):
So our relationship spansthrough a number of years.
They just get better andthere's a lot of confidence
built in the process In terms ofthe experiences.
I think that a lot of it isbased around like passions,
let's say so.
A lot of gastronomy is driving,you know, like a lot of passion
, wine, things that areconnected to the local culture.

(37:18):
So sometimes we say it's 30%about what you like to do, 70%
about what you have to discoverthere, and we want to make that
mix, get that mix right.
You have to try things that youwouldn't do in your hometown.
That's the whole fun oftraveling and expanding your
horizons.
So we're seeing a lot of local,local fashion, local artists,

(37:40):
local culture, local food.
You know understanding of thelocal society as well, or what
you know like what is it that'shappening there that I need to
be aware, so that, yeah, I'mexpanding my horizons and I'm
becoming like a better worldcitizen.
If you want, maybe you go, cometo the mediterranean and you
don't know that we have thisPosidonia, which is like this

(38:02):
little seaweed that is keepingthe whole Mediterranean allies.
You know sort of like placesthat are protected and you know,
you, you have to that that isthe single thing that is keeping
our beautiful Mediterraneanallies, you know.
So we have experiences that youknow.
We have a beautiful experiencein Mallorca that you jump on
this sailboat from this NGO andbasically you go with them to a

(38:24):
beautiful island in Mallorcathat is actually a preservation
space for the Mediterraneandiversity.
Things that we're selling arelike, so connected to the
passions and to the destinationthat it would be even impossible
to to to, to create like astandard experience.
Beyond, to say that that is theperfect mix is like your

(38:46):
passions, the local culture, thediscovery, and even, let's say
more, on a bigger, bigger,bigger strokes.
We're finding places that havethat culture within them.
We're seeing a lot of Japan,past Korea, people discovering
countries that have a lot ofartisans, like even Morocco.

(39:06):
That is something that iscoming very much in the strong
art center that people love,those countries that have a
particular craft and beauty.
Next attached to it, and maybeanother term would be cultural
events.
Something that is happeningcould be a system.

(39:27):
Why have a scene season?
They could be a field festival.
It could be a fashion week.
It could be a as you know fromyour Taylor Swift crazy net,
like it'd be a concert?
I'm not.
I think, in this day and age,it's where and when you know if
you can combine both and peoplelove it, it's like, okay, so I'm
going to Mexico City, mexico,because there there's a new

(39:48):
restaurant that it's opening anda couple of you know, art
exhibitions that are happeningat the same time.
And it's like, okay, perfect,that's the time to go.
And we're looking for a lot ofthose opportunities not that
make you experience the, thedestination, in a very special
time of the year and and maybe afeel like you're like part of
the, of the, of the crowd.

(40:09):
They're not like imagininggoing to sevilla in the city or
you know, there's so many placesin the world that that you can
have a beautiful tradition, sobeautiful traditions and perfect
times of the year thatsomething particular is
happening.
And this is something that wefeel quite it's coming up is
people wanting almost to alignto an event's calendar, so they

(40:29):
become very inspired, like, okay, yeah, I do want to be there
when that's happening.
So we're finding a lot more ofthis than maybe three, four
years ago or six, seven yearsago, that basically it was more
the destination only, and nowit's like the destination and
the time and people clear theircalendars to experience that
unique thing in their uniquelocation.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
No, you mentioned a number of really fascinating
trends there and I'm really keento dive into that a bit further
.
But the one thing I also wantedto I to dive into that a bit
further, but the one thing Ialso wanted to, I guess, step
back and highlight is the trenditself as to membership based
travel, because some of thetrends you're getting into about
destinations, I'm really keento understand, I'm really keen
to learn more from you and yourexperience what you're seeing

(41:10):
for luxury travelers and whatthey're they're booking today.
But when we think about just amembership based model
specifically, I know there arecompanies that have tried to
enter a membership-based modelconcept where you pay like a
fixed fee and you get access to,almost like you know, the most
classic model is like atimeshare base, which none of us

(41:31):
like that necessarily thatmodel or style of selling,
that's for sure, but the ideathat you pay a certain amount
that's accessible and then youget the opportunity to go
somewhere every year.
So some of these companies thathave come along that have
created membership-based modelshave created this concept that
you can take different tripseach year but you pay sort of a
set fee.
I guess the first question I'dlike to ask is what are you

(41:55):
seeing in terms of trend ofmembership-based model?
Are you seeing growth?
I'm assuming the answer islikely going to be yes, but like
what, what?
What are you seeing in terms ofyour business with the growth
around membership-based models?
And I guess the second question, uh, joanne, is whether you
have considered offering likeanother tier beyond what you
have today.
That is kind of like a fixedamount for your travel spend for

(42:16):
the year and then you get youknow you can, you can choose
where you go.
But yeah, uh, tell us about themembership model.
Yes, where?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
you're seeing that, going in 2025, the membership
model, I think, is it's verymuch where the society is moving
and I would say, if you thinkabout social class though, like
that is a very good talent forus there's something about the
feeling of being at home ordealing with a known partner
that knows you and cares aboutyou.
I think it's a lot about thecomplexity of the lifestyle

(42:48):
preferences.
So this is membership inreality, because we're not doing
like the other models that youwere mentioning, which is more
of a pre-purchase of the travelstand.
What we do is simply as aservice in our service, what
we're guaranteeing is that,instead of you being moving
around and you know, downloadingyour family lifestyle to every

(43:10):
new provider, is that we'retaking care of it?
No, so I think we see, we know,we think people understand that
it's not that, not that travelis such a complex part of your
lifestyle, but it's such animportant part that you would be
willing to have a service to doit for you.
As you said about financialplanning, I think that probably
travel is the single biggestspend of our members on

(43:34):
entertainment beyond the houseand everything else, but then,
when you talk about leisure,travel is the biggest spend and
they want somebody to handle itand they don't want to be moving
around.
That's what we found Like.
It's a preferences storage, ifyou want, like the cookies of
you know the, like the the modelcookies would be in our case.
Like that, technologies arehumans, is that?
And you want to call and youwant me to recognize who you are

(43:57):
.
You know that, that you have adog and you know like this, this
and that and how they traveland so on, and and that's the
beauty of the human connectionfor something that, for you, is
very close to your heart.
And you want somebody who isgoing to fight for your side,
your corner, who knows you wellenough that we're even able to
surprise our members to say youdidn't think about this then,
but you're going to do thisbecause you're going to love it.

(44:17):
And that's the moment where youbreak, you know, like an
invisible line where you're nowactually and we're taking over.
So I think, from that point ofview, people are getting super
used to personalization.
Even Netflix is a membershipservice to a certain degree.
You know, like I get my.
I don't want to see your movies, I want to see my movies and I
went.
I don't want to see your movies, I want to see my movies and I

(44:38):
don't want to see a movie thatI've seen twice.
So I think a lot of thatknowledge about people's
preferences, it's coming as anexpectation.
So I think that membership isonly going to grow because it
just delivers a better customerexperience.
It's a continuous line ofexperience as opposed to a
fragmented line of oh hey, dan,where do you?
You went to Kenya, like Japantwo years ago.

(45:00):
Were there any good like, giveme a phone.
But then I need to start fromscratch.
It's like oh, my name is Johan,I'm married, I have three kids,
but oh, I didn't, I forgot totell you that my own son, blah,
blah, blah.
And I think that this is wherewe see that helping hand, that
personal aspect of the travelplanning.

(45:22):
People are placing a big valueon this.
I would say that evenpost-COVID that has boomed.
Before people knew it.
After they know it, they reallyknow it and they place a value
to this.
And somebody was telling mesomething funny about the Gen Z
set.
It's kind of the generation andI think it applies to everybody

(45:44):
who has been digitalized, whichis all of us.
So it's not that I cannot do it,it's that I don't want to do it
myself.
It's like, yeah, I know I canbook a hotel, I know I can book
a flight.
This is not the value thatpeople are looking for.
But first, first you do itbetter, I do, and then, beyond

(46:05):
that, okay, that's a commodity.
But what about that restaurant?
That how to organize my day?
You know I like.
You know I like a certainexperience.
So you're going to put ittogether, you're going to tell
me how many days I should be inevery place and you're going to
unlock this connection to youknow, this musician in a certain
location.
I'm really going to enjoy andexpand my horizon.

(46:26):
So I think that there's manyelements to it, that I believe
that membership is here to stay,not in travel, but in
everything else likepersonalization.
Not only in travel, but ineverything else like
personalization.
People don't have time to wasteor to spend.
That's the core asset of people.
That is scarcity.
So I don't want to catch upwith you.
I want you to be ahead of meand I know that you know me, so

(46:49):
it's a lot faster, easier.
I don't want to give my youknow my profile to somebody else
and they start from scratch.
That's a huge part of the dealIn terms of this, you know.
Moving back to the, you know Ithink there's some services,
like you know, private flightsor similar, where it makes sense
not to you know, you buy yourhours of flight, the flight, so

(47:11):
then you can fly whatever youwant.
We think with travel it doesn'twork quite the same way unless
it becomes somewhat like apurchasing game more than a
sales game.
If I purchase and then I needto sell this across my members,
I will end up at some pointhaving a conflict, and we don't
want to have that conflict.
I want to start from scratchand say, dan, you know, like OK,

(47:32):
time for yearly travel planningconnection.
So what do you want to do?
And we start from scratch.
We build something for you.
We don't pre-buy orpre-purchase anything, so we
have like the whole world is ourcanvas and we can have a
conversation.

(47:53):
We have the editor, so itbecomes something very fluid.
I'm kind of a little scaredabout that model where you have
to deliver value at a set price,because it's not how it really
works, unless you're squishingthe margins somehow.
Right now it works very well.
People feel it's verytransparent, very flexible, very
open, very honest.

(48:14):
It's fine because we break downall the prices.
We're on your side, you canchange whatever you want and we
come together with this perfectidea that we make happen.
But I think that part of thismembership model comes with a
lot of trust and a lot oftransparency, so that they know
that, okay, I'm here, I'mworking for you, everything's

(48:37):
transparent and, intimately,that they know that you're
picking exactly that.
Okay, I'm here, I'm working foryou editing stuff by end.
We are intimately that theyknow that you're picking exactly
what's best for them and you'rerecommending what's best for
them.
But we've always been in thatmindset of like never
incentivizing our agent, youknow, based on and or based on
sending something in particular,like that, out of our scope,
completely like it's.
We're editorial driven andwe're, you know, like

(48:57):
relationship driven.
So, whatever the member,whatever we think it's the best
idea in the long run it's alwaysgoing to be the best decision.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, it's fascinating.
I think you raise a number ofreally interesting points there,
and one of them certainly isthat you know travelers are very
savvy and so they actually theycan see value, and value is a
term that um, a lot of travelbrands want to use.
We don't like to use the wordvalue, but people inherently, um
, they, they can work out forthemselves if there's good value

(49:25):
, so like based on that $2,600fee, if they're getting great
value for money based on theservice, the offers, the um.
So I take your point about nothaving a, a fixed amount that
gives them an experience,because that's very difficult to
navigate.
Um.
So is it fair to assume that,as it stands right now, with
your membership model, um,you're not anticipating
introducing tiers?

(49:46):
If anything, you're graduallyincreasing the price based on
the exclusivity of people beingable to, uh, to become a
sensualist member.
Is that?
Would that be a fair assessment?

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Well, definitely not.
The tiered service is somethingthat I always feel that it's a
tricky thing to balance, becauseI kind of want to make it more
universal in a way, Like I wantto expand the service because we
become more efficient, becausewe have the automation, we have
the technology behind the scenes, we have better creation all
over the world, so it becomes somuch for us like we are better

(50:21):
equipped to serve more people.
So it's more of a capacitymanagement at this point than it
is a price management.
So my goal is to be able toserve more people and not
necessarily to increase theprice point.
We had some customers who said,like I just don't get it.
How do you deliver this valuefor the money?
I have a person there for me.
How can you make it work?

(50:45):
And for us the reason istechnology.
So behind the scenes, we are atechnology company that
everything is technology drivenautomation.
At us.
Here's a database ofrecommended places from our
editors matching.
We have a lot of technologybehind the scenes that our goal

(51:07):
is to continue upgrading theservice by being smarter as to
how we can deliver better valuefrom technology.
So we're scalable in a strangeway, for being a very, the last
mile is very high touch and veryhigh tech, but high touch, but
behind the scenes we operatelike a completely startup, like

(51:30):
a digital company.
We're a technology company, butone that wants to deliver a
premium service, not one todeliver that luxury human touch
that comes from individual care.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
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That's protectgroup.
And now back to the show, one ofthe things I'm keen to
understand, given that obviously, you've built a luxury,
membership-based travel businesswhich is really rather unique
and also, you know, very timelyfor the market today, that you
know, given these factors we'vebeen talking about.

(54:36):
But I'm keen to know how you seeit evolving Um, cause you've
talked to, obviously, about anumber of reasons why someone
would sign up for essentialists,why people join um, the, the
membership today, and I I thisis where, like I find membership
based concepts quitefascinating.
I mean, most people are familiarwith Costco in North America.
Um, costco, of course, sellseverything literally at um, uh

(55:00):
their cost.
They make their money offinterest and and um, and their
membership based model isactually their.
Their profit line is what theygenerate for memberships, and
obviously you've seen it withAmazon prime, and I'm a prime
customer, and the interestingthing about prime is more so
that it builds repeat, and soonce you have a prime membership
and you get everythingdelivered for free, all of a
sudden you just start switchingover your spend um more and more

(55:20):
to Amazon.
So I'll be very keen to know,um, I guess, your vision for
membership uh in the travelspace and how you think it will
evolve, both your model and ifyou think there are other
examples out there in theindustry that you think will
start to um to take off.
So yeah, so I guess my questionto you uh is is really, how do

(55:41):
you foresee the concept ofmembership in travel evolving in
2025 and beyond.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
So I think the, the membership ends up being a
community, particularly in ourcase, and we, we source and we
deliver.
So for me, something thataffects the essentialist, we're
keen on growing the membershipbecause we're growing the pool
of experiences that are uniqueto our members.
That is growing the members.

(56:07):
For us, the sourcing of amazingexperiences locally, coming
from connections that the editorhas locally, or being able to
access that closed door, likethis amazing palace in Lima that
nobody can access, and take apistol shower the way Hemingway

(56:28):
won't like to take it when hevisits the owner of the house
that is, for us, the ultimateasset.
We want to build adifferentiated content base.
Us the ultimate asset.
Like, we want to build adifferentiated content base and
we're doing it because we have abig, a growing community of

(56:49):
members that are like-minded,that are a pleasure to host for
our partners and insiders in theestimation.
So that's a big thing.
So we want this community togrow and for us it is these
deals, differentiations, and thetravel market is extremely
fragmented.
You're going to have, like,destination companies, like
local tour operators, localagencies and so on, but very

(57:10):
rare for somebody to take thefull share of wallet of a
customer.
That's what we're aiming forand that's what we do For us.
We are trying to get this 100%share of the member and that
they really trust us foranything.
And it usually works like thisNow they buy the membership for
a trip to, you know, a longdistance trip, but then say, hey
, but you do the US as well.

(57:31):
You know, for US customers,like, you can do domestic, yeah,
of course.
Ah, you can LA, yeah, throw itout, yes, okay, even road trips,
yes, whatever you want.
And then can I put you in touchwith my PA for work, because
I'm staying at this horriblehotel that they're picking and I
want to have, like, nicedinners with clients and you
just have so muchrecommendations that my PA can

(57:53):
ever source.
So that's the beauty for thebusiness, is that?
That's why we're a long-termmembership service.
That's similar to Costco.
Our mind is on the region withthe member, like, okay, as long
as we deliver value.
This is an endless relationship.
It becomes better with timebecause I know you better, and

(58:14):
then on the other side of theequation we have the sourcing
becomes even better.
And then on the other side ofthe equation, we have the
sourcing becomes even better,like the experience that you
take while you're visiting adestination, the access that we
can provide you, the amazingitinerary, and then it becomes
like a self-fulfilled, you know,virtuous circle.
So I think it's a big part forus what our goal is to keep

(58:36):
growing, a big part for us whatour goal is to keep growing.
In terms of other membershipmodels, I think in travel, as I
said, I believe that there'sgoing to be certain
transportation Obviously.
Loyalty is so big and peopleare so loyal to airlines, and

(58:57):
even for private flights, Ithink it's a similar thing.
And while all this models oftransportation ground
transportation from Uber to cars, sharing your car is something,
I believe it's partiallybecause of the benefit of the
service, partially it's justbecause something they intimate
to you Like you're changing carsall the time, but you're an
Uber customer, you're an Ubercustomer and you become loyal to

(59:19):
this because it works everysingle time.
The only thing that the onething that I believe it's quite
unique about essentially, isthat we're kind of at the top of
the pyramid, that you are, Ihave the customer's contact and
I want share of wallet from you,because that's what makes me
give you the best service, so Idon't need you know, like in our
model you don't need anythingelse.
Uh, we uh your gateway ofaccess and I think there's many

(59:49):
people that can take thatposition with a member at the
same time.
You know, because then, yeah,you may be a, you know, like a
Hilton loyal member, but thenyou want to choose among the
whole the global selection.
So people who like to have likethe biggest scope, they may have
a slight preference on someloyalty airline, but if they
have to fly somewhere where thatairline is not a good option,
they will fly another airline.

(01:00:09):
In our case, we want to makesure that you never need to
leave your space within,essentially, to go somewhere.
So we will travel with you,like in a way like hey, have you
been to, you know, namibia?
Well, we actually had, but ifwe hadn't, we would say, okay,
just let me give us, I will comeback to you.
We're connecting with an editorthat has just went to Namibia

(01:00:32):
putting together the content foryou.
We will plan it.
So that's how we grew to wherewe are today, that we we have
like 1,200 destinations all overthe world.
But I think it's part of thismodel that is expanding with the
members and I think that'sdealing with community local
communities and tablet communityis something that we see very

(01:00:52):
strongly about as a huge benefitfrom our model.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Yeah, it's really fascinating.
And this is where I guess I'mbullish on the membership-based
concept, because if you seemembership organizations that
have entered travel Costco,obviously we just talked about
Costco is getting travel in ameaningful way because they can
negotiate great pricing fortheir members and they'll book
through their Costco travel Notthe Costco, it's one of those
things.
What business do they have intravel?

(01:01:19):
They sell tires, they selleverything from home appliances
and um, and now um, you know,all of a sudden they're in
travel.
But then the more I guesscloser examples I would think of
um is like American express.
You know any of the credit carcompanies.
I mean I pay my $500 annual feefor my American express
platinuminum card because I knowI get all the travel benefits.
I get a, I get a secondary fareeach year for someone to fly

(01:01:42):
with me, I get a great carinsurance and I get all sorts of
benefits to buy tickets toconcerts and like, for me it's
absolutely worth it.
Um, and so that's where I wouldsee that.
You know, I guess the closestcomparison for an essentialist
is those credit card companiesthat are essentially membership
based models.
And so do you see them ascompetitors, or do you?
And yeah, and I guess I'm alsokeen to get your some of your

(01:02:07):
hot takes on some of the trendsyou're seeing this year.
But yeah, I guess how do youlook at American Express as an
example?
Is that someone iscomplimentary?
Clearly they don't offer whatyou do I mean by any stretch.
But yeah, is there anyone elseyou'd point out that you see
growing in this space?

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I think definitely the American space has been for
a long time.
I don't know if it's beenbetter than space, but they
almost did.
This was a very stressedcommunity with benefits that at
least happened at that space.
They almost see it.
This was a stress-tabletcommunity with benefits that
really happened at that scaleand they're still very, very
important.
I think what differentiates usfrom the credit card models is

(01:02:47):
two things.
I think it's about thecomplexity of our planning, so
we don't focus just on flighthotels.
We're not a marketplace ofitems, which I think the Costco,
the Costco's of the world, aregoing to put some things there,
but it's very different frombuying your tire than to fix
your whole car.
You know like you need to fixyour car.
Okay, you may be, unless you'resuper clever, you better give

(01:03:09):
it to a professional.
I think in this case it'ssomething similar.
Hey, I just I don't want thehotel on the side.
I want you to tell me you know,you know us like.
We've been to New Zealand oncein our lifetime.
We want to have an amazingexperience and you know my kids,
you know my wife.
You know me, I love sportsmostly.
You know my wife loves fashion.
My kids are vegan, like, okay,that's a cocktail you're playing

(01:03:30):
with and they don't want to goand buy its piece themselves and
see what happens.
So I think that there'ssomething about the complexity
of what we're planning that is alittle bit, you know, slightly
or very different, I would say.
The other thing is the intimacy.
Like I think this is the onlything that a Costco membership
wouldn't give you is like Idon't need Costco to know my
intimate passions, or like howwe behave as a company, like if

(01:03:54):
I like ballet or if I lovetheater, or like contemporary
art, or my kids are into mangaand Japanese.
That's something that theydon't need to know, but we do.
So I think that that level ofconnection that is needed to
plan travel is something that Idon't think the credit cards can

(01:04:14):
definitely give us.
So we have a lot of creation,mega powers, a lot of
personalization coming from theknowledge of the member that
it's truly what I think, thatthat's what the members would
love.
It's another level from thecredit card like, okay, I get
benefits because I pay my fee.
Okay, here's a completedifference.
Here's the table's turn.

(01:04:34):
I don't do anything.
It's not that I'm here likechecking for ourselves that they
are telling, helping me to dothe amazing trip to South Africa
that I've always dreamed, andthey surprised me with places
that I would never visit,meeting people that I would
never have the opportunity tomeet and, in a way, it feels
like we do have benefits.

(01:04:55):
You know, like we have all theexpected hotel perks that you
would get from you know from youknow VIP tours, but also like
perks.
So that's very important thatwe get like upgrades, late
checkouts, early check-ins.
You know, like credit onresearch credit.
But I wouldn't say that that isour positioning.
Our positioning is like thecomplexity of it and discovering

(01:05:18):
and unlocking things that areintimately linked to what you
really really love to explore,and that's kind of that matching
is very uniquely ours.
But, yeah, I think that thecreative space, which is
becoming very heated these days,I think they're running more
into this idea of benefits,which, for us, is like it's

(01:05:38):
perfectly fine, but that's afraction of what we do.
In fact, it's not where weplace our value.
I didn't even mention benefitswhen you asked before, because
we take it for granted.
Okay, yeah, benefits, you canaccess benefits several ways,
but I'm going to tell you whichis a hotel that you need to go
according to our editor for youand your partner and your family

(01:05:59):
.
So we're getting to that pointabout us recommending you based
on you and your individualpreferences, and that's kind of
this one-to-one recommendationengine that we've become on a
very complex tablet plan thatinvolves everything and
everything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Well, just to underline your point about
personalization and exactly whatyou had shared with me when we
were together in person becauseit's one thing to say, you know,
personalized recommendation fortravel with family I just want
to actually share the verypersonalized recommendation you
made with me, because we weretalking about business and life
and family and having a greatcatch up in person and I was

(01:06:40):
talking about our kids who areon the cusp of going university
and you told me about your son,um, and the journey you took and
uh, it's uh, so, um, I wouldlove our listeners to hear that
example because ever since youmentioned about going on a um on
an incredible walking trip,like a making more of a
pilgrimage, um, I've beenfixated on this concept because
it was such a nice transitionbetween high school and
university to take your son ordaughter and have that

(01:07:03):
one-on-one time, and so telleveryone, if you wouldn't mind,
with a suggestion you made forme, which I was, I didn't even
realize that was.
Obviously I understood thoseoptions were out there, but I'd
never seriously contemplatedtaking that type of trip.
So, yeah, if you wouldn't mind,cause you had just done this
trip.
So it's also, you live it, soyou walk the walk as well.
So, yeah, tell us what yousuggested for me and what your

(01:07:24):
experience was with your own son.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Yeah, no, definitely, and I think it's part of what
we were discussing about howmeaningful travel can be.
We all struggle to spendquality time with kids, with our
loved ones, so I think travelis that opportunity for many
people, and we've seen a lot ofmulti-generational travel.
You know people gettingtogether to celebrate something,
you know, the villa or acertain destination.

(01:07:48):
Well, in my case, and I thinkwhat we were saying is that my
kid went to college this year bythe way, he's in the West Coast
, so you know very you know, inthe US.
So, basically, I it wasactually a recommendation from a
friend and then we incorporatedit as part of our
recommendations to customers hecame with this experience of his

(01:08:13):
life.
He said you know, when my kidswere going to college, I gave
them you know, his birthday giftwas actually the one that I
copied my birthday gift was togo on the El Camino, you know,

(01:08:34):
like a walking trip with my son,only with my son, you know, not
the other, the rest of thefamily, just, you know, the both
of us.
And so we went on thisbeautiful experience in.
You know, in this time it wasthe real Camino, which is in the
north of Spain, you know,walking like 20 miles a day,

(01:08:54):
choosing the path, sitting by amermaiding cliff, eating
something that we just bought inthe little village before and
arriving to the city, visiting afew places, having dinner
together, and, more thananything, it's a space in
between places, you know, likethe journey time which usually

(01:09:17):
you throw away in the trips andsometimes you discard that as a
necessary evil to get from A toB.
Well, here the A to B waseverything.
So we were walking for 8 hours,6 hours a day, talking, and for
me, you know, really it was themost valuable time getting

(01:09:38):
ready.
For me, Probably it wasn't somuch him getting ready to live
without me as it was me gettingready to live without him on my
day to day.
For me, I, you know, I treasureit.
For me it's like a beautifulmemory.
We, you know, we're tiedtogether.
We enjoy it together.
Memory, we, you know, we'retied together.
We, we, we enjoyed together.
We suffered a little bitbecause, you know, it was like

(01:10:01):
long distance walking.
We arrived to the town, weweren't.
We really felt like a newrelationship was, was building
and definitely it was a superemotional time for me, a
recommendation that I gave youbecause for me it was like,
extremely worth it and I thinkit goes to show that connection

(01:10:22):
with life and travel, that ifyou think about travel as this
safe space where the rest ofyour life is away and you focus
on something that you love andto discovery and I think a
shared discovery is somethingthat has a lot of value going
out of routine and creating thatspace for connection I mean

(01:10:45):
anybody listening in definitelyI 100% recommend it.
I have two other kids that aregoing to go through the same
experience right.
Hope they enjoy it as much as Iwill do.
But it was really for me itfelt like a, a, a milestone.
You know, like almost like thistransition, you know this

(01:11:06):
milestone when you move from onerelationship with your son to
the next one, and you know it'sa hugely, hugely recommended to
be.
You know, and that's aone-on-one Like you don't know,
we're always surrounded bypeople.
This time it was like to buildthat personal relationship that
for me matters so much.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Yeah, no, it was a terrific suggestion.
Thank you again.
And actually, we have twins, asyou know, and they're obviously
going to be heading off touniversity at the same time and
so, uh, we're all of a suddengoing to be empty nesters and
it's, uh, it's, it's hitting us,um, and so we're planning a
trip to Europe.
Actually, uh, we had the kidssince you and I last caught up,
um, uh, our son wants to go toGermany and our daughter wants

(01:11:49):
to go to Spain, and so we'replanning a two week trip and I
actually I need to come back toyou with some suggestions, maybe
, actually how I can test outthe platform to have an
incredible week in in Spain.
Um, but I do have a couple oflast questions for you, and, and
, uh, one of them is, uh, fromthe conversation we've been
having today, um, for someonewho is looking to, uh, I guess,

(01:12:10):
redefine how they experiencedtravel and has been kind of
inspired from our conversation,um, uh, why should they
ultimately consider joiningEssentialist?
I know I asked you about thetype of person and where they're
based, but for those people whoare out there that are, we have
a lot of listeners, of course,that are B2B and we have a
number that are B2C, actualtravelers, and so if it's either

(01:12:33):
an agency that might want towork with you or a traveler that
wants to connect with youdirectly, what would you say to
them?
If you could speak to themdirectly right now and say why
they should consider joiningEssentialist, what would be the
main driver?

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Yes, well, definitely , we would love to work with
anybody who's passionate abouttravel and the religious or
values, values.
For me, you know what?
It's kind of an easy sell whichgives us the feeling that we're
in a good spot.
Like I can tell you that, fromthe people who we schedule calls
, over 70% end up being a payingmember.

(01:13:09):
Why?
Because, in reality, many ofthem feel like, okay, found what
I was looking for.
Like, yeah, travel is veryimportant for you.
Important for you, yes, it is.
You want to travel in ameaningful way and, like you
know, it's very important foryou to have, like the cultural
connection that you would liketo have.
Or feel like you know you'regoing beneath the surface, like
you know you don't need to go tothe flashy, flashy restaurant

(01:13:31):
all the times you may want to goto eat a paella in a little
cove in.
You know, in Mallorca, that youneed to go walking 30 minutes
to get there.
But that is actually the beautyof what we put together is that
we believe in high and low,like there's no such thing, no
such pleasant thing, about goingfive days in a row to a
Michelin star restaurant, youknow.
So I think that we are verymuch looking for that excellent

(01:13:53):
level of connection andauthenticity and then for the
right people, it's clearly worthit because they place a lot of
value and even investment intravel.
So they know they're going tospend money there and they just
want to have the best possibleexperience.
Of course, if they come throughthe podcast, we'll definitely

(01:14:16):
do like something special forthem and, you know, like a
discount and like an extrasomething for some and, of
course, you're done.
I would love to engage with thisbeautiful trip, but for us, we
found that we have a very bigmagnet for the people who are
looking for this and like, okay,yeah, that's, I mean people who

(01:14:36):
love reading magazines and, youknow, like love to be informed
about where they're going andand this editorial aspect, it's
also like a big hook of ours.
It's like almost like havingthis you know you pick your
favorite magazine and well, thatwe have that person working for
us or, in a way, likerecommending to you instead of
recommending to anyone who'sreading their articles.
No, so I think we we would besuper glad for them to join our

(01:15:02):
community.
We do consider us a communityof people who loves to travel
and talk, travel and discoverplaces and we believe the world
is a beautiful place full ofculture and richness and
diversity.
So we have that view of theworld that wherever you go
you're going to, if you knowwhere to go, you're going to
find something that is going toenrich you forever and it's
going to be transformational.

(01:15:23):
So we're welcoming thosetravelers and people from the
industry.
We love to talk about, talkwith them, and you can
definitely email us atmembersessentiarycom or you can
email me at joan at thesenshicom, j-o-a-n.
I'm super happy to engage andto connect and yeah, I think

(01:15:45):
this is you know clearly whatyou were saying about community
and memberships.
I feel that your podcast is acommunity, it's a membership in
a way you know, like, I thinkthis is the, this is where we're
heading is like individualconnection.
People, uh, people who you knowyou share a certain point of
point of view that you're goingto, to be inspired with by, and

(01:16:05):
that you respect and that ismeant to be informative to you
are like touching in a way.
I think the editors representthat for us, like we, we, we
live in this environment ofpeople that we trust, that we
want to share with you, localsthat we trust that have built
amazing stories and we want tobring those stories to as many

(01:16:26):
people as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more Obviously, the sense
of connection and community iscertainly what drives me with
the podcast.
Clearly, it motivates you asyou've built out this successful
membership-based model.
The one other thing and we willbe sure for our listeners to
make sure that we include a linkso that any special incentives.
So be sure to check out thewebsite and our social channels
as you're listening to thisepisode for more details so that

(01:16:49):
you can actually considerjoining Essentialist or becoming
a part of their community.
The one thing I'd love to finishoff on is some inspiration for
2025 travels.
When you think about theamazing community you've built,
clearly there are certainexperiences that you and your
team are able to deliver on thatyour members and community

(01:17:09):
absolutely love, and so Irealize that these are all very
personalized, just like theexample you kindly shared with
me about my son, or a son anddaughter, and kind of going on a
, uh, a walking trip, um, butwhen you look at your forward
bookings for 2025, I know youmentioned, uh, japan.
You mentioned South Korea.
My son, of course, wants to goto South Korea for sure, cause

(01:17:30):
he just watched squid games and,um, he's totally obsessed with
all things Korean, he's actuallybeen teaching himself Korean,
and so who knows?
Yeah, but what would you sayjust in closing are some of the
trending destinations or some ofthe experiences, I guess, that
people are seeking in 2025?

(01:17:51):
What's standing out to you asyou sit with your team and look
at the bookings that are comingin?
Is it safaris, Is it specificdestinations?
Are there any sort of, I guess,things that are standing out to
you that are consistent in whatyour members are booking for
2025?

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
I think there's certain trends that come
together.
I think that, even if it's likea weird disconnect from those
nations like, I think, someplacethe even if it's like a weird
disconnect from those nationslike, I think, someplace in
South America, that could beColumbia, peru, yeah, um, it's.
It's in a weird way connectedto Japan and South Korea,
meaning that these places thathave a lot, a very strong

(01:18:30):
culture, but they have a veryunique landscape, so you can
almost do everything on the sametrip.
You are discovering a newculture, you're experiencing
incredible crafts, incrediblecuisine.
So we're seeing a little bit ofthose hybrid destinations that
are not fully leisure, as youwould consider, maybe a beach

(01:18:52):
holiday or a place to fullyrelax, but they kind of combine
this cultural aspect with ascenery or a landscape that is
very rich and beautiful.
So those could be one of theyou know, colombia, peru,
someplace in Mexico.
I think Mexico is a veryinteresting.

(01:19:14):
You know Mexico is a veryinteresting.
You know, short flight from theUS, that it's full of energy,
full of culture, full ofinspiration, that I think it's
going to be, you know it's goingto be even more of a center, of
a cultural center over time,and this year I think we're

(01:19:36):
seeing a lot of interest there.
Something else is, you know,spain, france and Italy.
I think that the grandmothersof two of them, in a way, those
destinations.
I think we always find newplaces and again, being from
Spain, I can tell you there'sstill places that are like in

(01:19:57):
Andalusia, that are so beautiful.
Mallorca is a hidden gem.
I am based here but we, weAmericans, are loving it.
It is becoming a destination,you know, super in demand
destination from the US, butalso from, uh, in many places in
the world.
That, uh, I think it's adestination that is going to to,

(01:20:17):
to be among the.
You know these beautifullocations that before where the
marshy coast, so they caught thesuit, I think my okay, clearly
climbing to that level.
And you know we do have likesome completely different
locations that maybe a place inPhilippines, fantastic,

(01:20:39):
incredibly.
You know you mentioned safari.
I think we're seeing even inNamibia.
You know, like some places thatare like unique in the world,
like people are taking thosewide open staves, like kind of
this feeling of like being alonein a destination or feeling
that connection to nature.

(01:20:59):
So we're looking for differentplaces in the world that can
deliver that experience.
But, as you say, like the worldis really, really big.
We kind of see the classics,we're reinventing the classics.
So you know, like we alwaysreinventing, you know, the Paris
, the London, the Rome, theItaly, the Spain, the France,

(01:21:20):
that's something that we'realways reinventing.
So there's always opportunitiesto go to the right place, to go
in the right time and we alwaysunlock beauty Portugal.
You know our dear neighborshere in Spain I think it was
probably one of the post COVIDhits and there's like lots of
places to discover there.
So so we're really, and thatplus combining with the calendar

(01:21:44):
, not like that's what we'refinding out, like we're coming
in with tables for people atNoma.
You know like, okay, like hey,this is the last season, piers,
of a lifetime.
Uh, you know, you have afantastic weekend, have this
amazing food experience.
You know like, and you go backhome transformed, so like we're

(01:22:05):
finding those unique things thatmeet your passion and become
like a once-in-a-lifetimeexperience.
So, you know, super excited tolearn this and, as you say, it
just happens that it's verypersonal.
But well, we, we get excitedwith it.
I just had a colleague thatcame from to Bhutan.

(01:22:26):
Bhutan is that, you know, thatbeautiful country.
You know close to Nepal, like avery particular way of handling
tourism that you know peoplehave to pay a relatively high
fee to access but it's likeuntouched.
You know very excitinglocations to discover still in
this big, beautiful world.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Yes, I agree it's going to be a big year for
travel, clearly a big year forEssentialist, hopefully a
wonderful year for you and yourfamily as well, and I'm so glad
that we finally made this happen.
You kindly mentioned a numberof ways that people can connect
with you obviously LinkedIn.
You put your email out there aswell, which I appreciate, and
people can obviously check outessentialist and we'll make sure
that um, the link and any otherincentives are included in the

(01:23:09):
posts that we share this Um, andI guess I just leave us with
where you're going to betraveling to in 2025.
Personally, I know you're doinga lot of professional travel,
but what do you have plannedwith your family for travel this
year, johan?
And then otherwise, how can wemake sure that people stay in
touch with you?

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Yes, well, in a couple of weeks I'm going to say
Shams.
So that would be fun, my firsttime there.
So, looking forward to that, II'm actually still like I'm a
late planner.
You know I shouldn't be, but Iam with my family, you know like
, they say, you know like, but I, we're hopefully trying to, you

(01:23:53):
know, as you know, my son isstudying in California, so we're
definitely going to plan afamily trip to California.
Nothing that will shocklisteners, but I, you know, los
Angeles to San Francisco driveis one of my favorites in the
world and I take the opportunityto, you know, to send you know
like to our condolences, in away, for the loss of people and

(01:24:17):
nature and beauty that we'veseen in Los Angeles.
It's devastating for all of usthat we love the city and the
state of California.
For me, you know wildfires, youknow we were discussing this
before we went on the call likeit really is terrible for us
that we lost.
You know, nature and cultureand so on.

(01:24:38):
So, but you know that was onedrive that we were really,
really quick even doing as afamily to then meet my older son
.
That he's, you know, in TaloAlto.
So that would be one of thethings that we are planning to
do and all together we're kindof planning the next Skid Ridge,
so we're going to do it alittle bit more exotic than we
used to.
So that's kind of the the nextthing that you know, as I'm

(01:25:01):
starting to feel like okay, whenyour kids are, you know, slide
the nest, and I think that theworld has flown.
Eventually, when you gettogether like, it becomes
somewhat like okay, should we gosomewhere together as a family?
And what we were discussing,dealing that zone where you can
I'm not like log your phones,log yourself in a beautiful home
, ski and light a fire at night,and you know, because time is

(01:25:27):
becoming now even more preciousfor me and for me, traveling is
one way to make sure that youhave your bandwidth and you have
your space to engage.
So that's kind of what's on myradar in California.
And then we started to dreamabout the next ski for next year

(01:25:48):
to somewhere a little bit morespecial, and everybody's
chipping in with theirsuggestions and ideas.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
That sounds wonderful and magical.
Even so, I'm hoping you getthat ski trip in with the
suggestions and an abs.
Yeah, that sounds wonderful and, uh, magical.
Even so, I'm uh, I'm hoping youget that ski trip in with the
family, and I'll look forfurther inspiration from you,
since your eldest is just alittle bit older than mine.
So your recommendations are allvery relevant and appreciated
and I couldn't agree any morewith the sentiment, having lived
in la people that are sounfortunately impacted.
But the one thing youhighlighted is, like, ultimately

(01:26:17):
, the need to um, um, uh, to goback to these destinations when
it is appropriate, which is that, uh, when people stay away from
California, it will ultimatelynegatively impact the economy.
So, when it is safe to return,um, go ahead and do that drive
from San Francisco to LA and getback to um, so, uh, but yeah,
no, joanna, I'm so pleased thatwe got a chance to do this.
I certainly want to wish youand the team every success this

(01:26:40):
year and I look forward toseeing you at some of the
conferences, keeping in touchand bringing you back to discuss
membership travel and how it'sgoing to evolve in the future.
So thank you again.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Thank you for the invitation.
You know, really good luck withthe season five.
It will or five will be.
You know listening, I lovelistening, so really, really, I
think that you do a greatservice to the travel industry
and, I think, anybody who's intotravel and passionate about
travel, so we really admire someof your work from here.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
Thanks so much for joining us on the latest episode
of Travel Trends.
I really hope you enjoyed thisconversation about a membership
model for success with JoanneRocha from Essentialist.
I definitely encourage all ofour listeners to check out
essentialistcom, learn moreabout their business.
And thanks again to theVirtuoso team for connecting us
in the first place.
I hope many people get thechance to go this year and

(01:27:30):
obviously, joanne and the team,I'm sure we'll be back at that
event.
So I'm wishing you guys all thebest for an incredible
conference in August.
We have a number of eventspotlights coming out over the
next few weeks.
As I mentioned in the beginning, we've got our aviation
festival conference episode thatjust came out.
Next week We'll have ouradventure travel and trade
association episode, followed byfocus right Europe, and then I

(01:27:53):
am taking a brief break over thesummertime.
We are going to be runningseason five, though, right until
the middle of July.
Our next series is going to beour deep dive into the world of
in-destination experiences,sponsored by our friends over at
Pernod Ricard.
We're going to have someamazing guests for that series,
including Joe Pine, the authorof the Experience Economy, and

(01:28:14):
we are going to finish seasonfive with a conversation with
Rod Cuthbert, the founder ofViator, and going right back to
where the conversation started,if you want to make any
suggestions.
Going into season six, we'revery much in the planning mode
for guests and content.
Feel free to reach out to me,dan, at travel trends podcastcom
.
And don't forget, our AI summitis now live with our early bird

(01:28:35):
prices, so you can check thatout on our website and sign up
to join us.
And, of course, we post clipsand highlights from all of these
episodes on our social channels, so be sure to check us out on
LinkedIn, instagram and YouTube.
Until next week, safe travels.

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