Inside Tanzania's Safari Legacy: The Great Migration & Affordable Luxury

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Step into the world of Tanzanian safaris with Cliff D’Souza, Managing Director of Savannah Tours, a family-run business with 51 years of expertise. Cliff shares how safari experiences have transformed—from rugged Land Rovers and simple tents to modern vehicles with Wi-Fi and luxury lodges boasting spa facilities—all while preserving the raw beauty of the wilderness.  

What You'll Uncover in This Episode  

• The evolution of Tanzanian safaris, now including cultural visits to Maasai villages and the Hadzabe hunter-gatherer tribe.  
• Highlights of the northern circuit (Serengeti, Ngorongoro Crater, and Tarangire), including the Great Migration and calving season.  
• Conservation efforts, with rangers protecting endangered species, a national ban on single-use plastics, and lodges adopting solar power and water conservation practices.  
• Accessibility improvements, making national parks even easier to explore.  
• Safari packages ranging from $863 for a seven-day experience to ultra-luxury adventures, ensuring options for every traveler.  

Cliff also reveals fascinating trends, like increasing diversity in safari-goers (with growing interest from Asian travelers) and an exciting surge in advance bookings—2025 is already 70% sold! Whether you're planning your first adventure or a return to explore Tanzania’s southern gems like Nyerere National Park, this episode inspires you to plan an unforgettable journey.  

Cliff’s parting wisdom? “Don’t rush. Take the time to truly experience the magic of Tanzania.”  

Now is your chance to immerse yourself in a safari adventure of a lifetime.

👉 Listen to Inside Tanzania's Safari Legacy: The Great Migration & Affordable Luxury Now

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
then the uh, the thing about it just being a
wildlife experience is nownowadays something of the past.
This has changed a lot over theyears.
Every single safari program hasa cultural experience to it.
We have we offer and we add on,and client can choose even more
.
But we offer experiences likevisiting a Maasai village,

(00:27):
visiting the Hadzabe tribe whoare hunter-gatherers, or going
on a canoe on a lake.
You know you're paddling outthere yourself.
We offer walking safaris.
We take you out on a walk ifyou're interested in.
So there are lots of options.
I think gone are the days whenpeople just want to get into the

(00:48):
vehicle in the morning andspend four or five hours just
driving along all over the place.
So we do have these add-ons.
That has now become part ofevery single life in the city.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and I'm excited to
continue our deep dive intoAfrican safaris.
As you heard, on our firstepisode we had a chance to speak
to Sherwin Banda from AfricanTravel, all about South Africa
and where he's from in Cape Town.
And then we spoke to Ian fromWilderness, who spent a lot of
time in Botswana, and they havecamps all over Africa and now
are expanding globally.

(01:22):
And today we have a chance tospeak to Cliff D'Souza, who is
the managing director ofSavannah Tours.
He's based in Tanzania.
We finally had a chance torecord this.
We've literally tried fivetimes and had some challenges
with internet connectivity.
I had the chance to meet Cliffat the World Travel Market in
November last year and,interestingly, he is actually

(01:42):
the uncle to Josh who runs CloudSafaris, who's kindly sponsored
this series.
So there's a great connectionthere, because this is a
family-owned business of morethan 50 years and Cliff, as
you'll hear him mention, hasonly been running it for about
25 years and he has deepexpertise in this area.
And you'll hear that as we talkabout the evolution of safaris

(02:04):
and how they started as a realbackpacker experience and then
clearly extend to very high-endluxury today.
However, what we also talkabout is something that Josh
mentioned and you'll hear thisin our final conversation next
week when we talk to him aboutcloud safaris is how do we
actually make safari experiencesaffordable and accessible?
And that's actually where theirjourney began, and it's still a

(02:27):
very important considerationfor those of you that are
looking at a safari experienceas out of reach, and one of the
things I love about the travelindustry is that it always has
the opportunity to pick peopleup and lift communities when
done responsibly and when youtap into the real emerging
middle class that we're seeingaround the world, which is going

(02:49):
to see travelers increase from400 million to 800 million in
the next 20, 25 years.
So this is a topic that Iwanted to cover as part of the
safaris so that we can plan towelcome more people into these
experiences and to be able to doso responsibly and sustainably.
So that's one of the things Iget into with Cliff today, but
you'll hear so much more aboutwhat is special and unique about

(03:13):
Tanzania both the people andthe geography and, of course,
the wildlife and the greatwildebeest migration, which is
definitely one of the mainreasons to go, and I had the
privilege to experience thatmyself with my family a few
years ago, so we're going todive right into today's episode.
Don't forget, though, we do sendout monthly updates of all of

(03:35):
our new podcast series and ourevents coming up for the next
month.
So make sure you're registeredat TravelTrendsPodcastcom, and
then we post clips andhighlights on our social
channels as well, which you canfind on Instagram, youtube and
LinkedIn at Travel TrendsPodcast.
And thanks again to Josh andthe team at Cloud Safaris for
sponsoring this series.
Since this is the number oneB2B podcast globally, it's great

(03:58):
to partner with them becausethey are completely focused on
offering B2B solutions fortravel agents and online travel
agencies to make it possible foryou to offer African safaris.
They're starting in East Africa.
They have a talented team oftech developers and travel
agents who have a great passionfor this space, and they are
committed to developing this newtechnology, leveraging AI to

(04:21):
make personalization and takeaway a lot of the pricing
complexity.
So look for more information atcloud safariscom and take away
a lot of the pricing complexity.
So look for more information atcloud safariscom and reach out
to Josh and the team.
We'll be right back.
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(06:07):
And now back to the show.
Now let's get into East Africaand the special place of
Tanzania and welcome CliffD'Souza to the show.
Cliff, it's so great to finallyhave you on Travel Trends.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Thank you very much for the invitation.
I'm very pleased to be herewith you.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Fantastic.
Now, over the course of thisseries we have heard from
Sherwin Banda, from South Africa, and we've heard from Ian, who
was based in Botswana, and nowwe have the privilege to not
only speak to you but alsounderstand where safaris began
in East Africa and theincredible legacy that your
family has in this industry, thelast 50 years running this

(06:47):
business.
And, of course, you're verysmart and switched on nephew,
who runs Cloud Safaris, basedhere in Toronto and has kindly
sponsored this series.
So it's nice to make thisconnection with you and, of
course, for all of our listeners, I had the chance to meet Cliff
in person at WTM World WorldTravel Market in London last
November and he came to ourgathering of travel trends post

(07:09):
our talk and it was terrific tomeet you in person, cliff, and
so and a real honor to have youon the show.
So let's tell everyone a bitabout the background of your
company, savannah Tours, andyour background in tourism.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
So Savannah Tours is a family-owned and managed
business now in our 51st year ofoperation.
It was a company started by myfather and, as I grew up as a
child at home, everything aroundme was everything to do with
the hospitality industry andtourism tourism.

(07:48):
So I was pretty involved withit from my early days and my
father would always get meinvolved in some sort of
apprenticeship within thecompany until he decided it's
time to send him away, and I wassent away to the UK to study.
Having studied hotel managementand finance, I eventually
returned back to Tanzania andjoined the family business,

(08:09):
where I have been now workingfor over three decades now, and
I only took over about less thantwo decades ago when my father
passed away, and I've beenrunning the company now.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
What an amazing legacy and a tribute to your
father, and I like that you sayonly a couple of decades, which
I guess, in the grand scheme ofthings, I mean given the 50 year
history.
I mean, yeah, you've beenrunning it for half the time,
and I guess that's where I'dlove to know a bit more about
the journey of Savannah Tours,specifically where the safari

(08:41):
started, because you're in a, Iguess, a very privileged
position to be able to give usan understanding of how they've
evolved over the time.
So the thing, tell us, first ofall, I guess, where you're
based, so anyone looking on amap can actually picture where
you are in the world.
Where exactly in Tanzania, areyou based and where's the office
?

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I am based in Arusha, which is the heart and the
capital city, one of the capitalcities of Tanzania, but it's
the heart of where everything todo with safaris start.
It's the center.
Everybody arrives from thereand then disperses off to the
national parks, and that's whereour main base is and our main
operation center is.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
That's great.
I appreciate you sharing thatfor context, and I guess that's
where to go back to, where thisbusiness started.
I'm sure there's quite a fewthings that are the same and a
lot that is different, but inthose early days, tell us what
the safari experience was likein terms of organizing the
vehicles to take people out tothese game parks and tell us a
little bit of how it's evolvedto where we are in 2025.

(09:41):
And again, that's where I'mvery keen to know what's the
same, what's different in thesafari experience in East Africa
.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
So I've experienced a lot of change and I've seen all
the change during my timewithin the company and from the
very, very early days when I wasstill not involved in the
company, safaris were operatedin the old land rollers.
There was nothing modern aboutthese vehicles, just that they

(10:07):
were rugged vehicles and couldgo through very difficult
terrains.
But that was about it.
It was just a 4x4 vehicle.
Today, years on, it'scompletely different.
All our safari vehicles arecompletely modernized.
They are safari equipped withfridges inside, wi-fi systems,

(10:31):
charging points for your vehicle, pop-up roofs for easy game
viewing in the sunshade.
Vehicles have changed.
In the past, accommodation wasvery basic.
Many of the places were verybasic, simple lodges or just
tented camps, what I call safaribush camps, whereby you

(10:54):
literally are out there in thewilderness as well.
But things that evolve, sinceToday we have luxury lodges with
spa facilities and all theequipment you can think of.
Tented camps are high-classtented camps.
You will be staying in a tent,but you have flush toilets

(11:18):
running, walk there.
Some places even have airconditioning in their tent.
You know, one might think, ohmy God, this is not the way I
want a safari.
But believe me, at the end ofthe day after you're spending a
good five, six hours gameviewing.
When you come back, you doenjoy the little bit of luxury
that you get there.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
For sure and that's exactly what I was going to ask
you about was the accommodation,because certainly my experience
on safari and I've beenfortunate enough to be in Africa
twice and of course some of ourlisteners have heard I was in
South Africa and then Kenya andTanzania, so I've had the, I
guess, the privilege andopportunity to experience what
an extraordinary part of theworld that you're based in and
to see some of the greatmigrations.

(12:00):
But I guess that's where, when Ithink of the vehicle experience
, obviously they've gotten morecomfortable and, as you
mentioned, like sunshades andsome of those developments,
charging ports but certainlywhere it stood out to me, not
knowing those early days, wasthe accommodation.
I just didn't expect howluxurious, how extraordinary the
cuisine was going to be andcertainly that has to be a major
driver of what people arelooking for on safari.

(12:22):
Is these incredible lodges thatwe heard a little bit about
from wilderness because theirfocus was game camp.
So tell us how that fits in foryou.
So obviously, do you uh, do youwork with specific uh uh game
parks and with uh with lodges,and are they some of those
lodges part of savannah tours?
How do you integrate that intoyour offering?

Speaker 1 (12:42):
we.
We work with all the game pathsin tanzania.
We can offer you an adventureexperience in all the national
parks in Tanzania.
But in terms of lodging, wework with a few of the lodges
that we have chosen as ourpremium properties to be dealing
with.
We work also with wilderness aswell, with their properties in

(13:03):
Tanzania, and we specificallydesign a program to fit our
client.
That doesn't necessarily meanthat we are only offering the
higher end safaris, but if aclient wants something a bit out
of the different completelytented camps and all that, we

(13:23):
offer all of that.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
That's great and I think you know, one of the
things I definitely am keen toget your take on and your
insights, which will be uniquein this series, is just in terms
of some of the insights intoyour clients and the booking
trends.
There was a number of questionsthat I was certainly keen to
dive into that we'll have thechance to, but just before we do
, in terms of understanding howsafaris have evolved, you've
obviously mentioned a number ofways that they have changed over

(13:48):
the years.
What would you say, beyondaccommodation and the vehicles
has also, I guess, transformedthe Tanzanian safari experience?
I'm sure there's been a lot oflearning about culture and
preservation and sustainabilityand some of those developments.
So tell us a little bit more,if you wouldn't mind, just in
terms of how some of the safariexperiences have evolved and

(14:10):
where some of the innovationshave been, and, if you don't
mind, how that connects totravelers' priorities and some
of their preferences that you'rehearing that clearly you need
to adapt to, based on people'sperception of the destination
and what they're going toexperience.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
One of the biggest changes I had seen is before we
get into the actual safaripackage type of thing, one of
the biggest changes I'd seenover the years is protection of
wildlife.
This has been a global trendand Tanzania is a forefront
runner in this.
Wildlife is a high priority forthe country.

(14:44):
There's a lot of protectionthat's done to the animals, both
from the rhino to all types ofanimals.
So this has been a significantdifference between what it was
many a day in the past whenthere was a lot of poaching that
was taking place, and all thatand the government here in
Tanzania have tried and arestill trying very hard to reduce

(15:05):
this considerably.
We have had foreign partnersthat are supporting the
government and this is a bigimprovement to the sector and
for the future.
We have a lot of rangers andeven things like the rhino, for
example, where the species isendangered and there are very

(15:28):
few left, even the rhino inwhich many are housed in the
Gorongoro crater, for everyrhino or every two rhinos, there
is a park ranger with his LandRover driving around and always
in the vicinity making sure thatthese animals are kept safe.
So this has helped us and willallow this to carry on for

(15:51):
generations to come, for ourgrandchildren to come and see
and enjoy this beauty thatTanzania has to offer.
In terms of the infrastructure,we have seen a lot of
development again.
Before, in the early days, whenyou drove from Arusha, which is
the main city where you arrive,and you drove up to the

(16:11):
Serengeti, it would take you twodays to drive because there was
no tarmac road at all,completely so you were going
through potholes.
And now today, when you travel,you can drive from Arusha all
the way to the Serengeti inabout six to seven hours because
the road in most of the casesoutside the national parks is

(16:31):
tarred and when you get withinthe national parks it's the
all-weather roads, things wehave never seen in Nepal.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I'm glad you mentioned the Nkoro Goro crater.
That was one of the hugestandouts for us.
So let's actually let's walkour listeners through, whether
they're travel agents ortravelers.
My father-in-law is very keento go to East Africa.
He's not been to Africa yet.
He was debating between SouthAfrica and East Africa, and I'm
always thinking about our, ourlisteners, in mind, and clearly
there's a number of outstandinghighlights that stood out to me

(17:00):
about Tanzania and Kenya.
But let's let's break down.
You mentioned the national park, so let's give everyone a bit
of detail about why they shouldchoose Tanzania for either their
very first safari or, ifthey've been before, why they
should actually make this theirnext trip.
So tell us a little bit, if youwouldn't mind, about the
migrations that occur.
Tell us a little bit about someof the national parks that we

(17:22):
should know about in Tanzania,and then, of course, please
highlight some of theexperiences that you offer on
these trips that, clearly, I maynot be aware of.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
So, when coming to Tanzania, two of the most
important must-see nationalparks are the Serengeki National
Park and the Gorongoro Crater.
Park and the Gorongoro Crater.
The Serengeti National Park isrenowned for its vast plains,

(17:56):
quantity and diversity ofwildlife.
The Big Five, and the mostimportant, is the wildebeest
migration that takes place inTanzania.
This is an annual thing whereall the wildebeest migrate and
they travel right around theSerengeti depending on weather
conditions, and it's somethingone has to see.
It's what everybody watchesNatural Geographic and they see

(18:18):
the wildebeest crossing theGreat Mara River.
It all happened in Tanzania.
The other national park is theGorongoro Crater, which is a
World Heritage Site.
It's a dormant volcano and it'sincredibly beautiful and the
home to the rhinos.
A lot of wildlife is containedwithin the walls of the crater.

(18:39):
Remaining still with thenorthern Tanzania circuit, we
also have the Tarangire NationalPark, which is famous for its
huge herds of elephant.
These being the three main uhparks in the Northern Circuit,
this is definitely where oneshould start from First-time
visitors and even second-timevisitors coming back, because

(19:02):
there's always somethingdifferent, something new that
happens there.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, Fantastic so that the great migration was one
of the reasons that we actuallychose that time of the year.
So tell everyone, if youwouldn't mind too, the best
times of the year to visitTanzania, because I'm sure
that's going to be helpful tooas people start looking at their
calendars and figuring out whenthey could actually make this
trip happen.
Because, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
When's the best time to go to see the migrations, and
also for the climate and besttime.
It's also our busiest time, butit's a good time to see the
migration because the migrationis up by the Mar River, which is
middle of August to end ofAugust up to early September.
So you have the opportunity ofgoing all the way to the
northern parts of the SerengetiNational Park and seeing the
migration, or even if you are inthe other areas of the park.
It's a great time to visitbecause our rains have already

(20:06):
finished, which is April and May, and the wildlife is really
increased a lot.
They are there because it's nowmuch drier and a great time for
the wildlife that are actuallyresident animal in the area.
July-august is, weather-wise, isexcellent in Tantanier.
And why I say this?

(20:26):
It's because it's not fucked asit normally is in the country,
Because July, August, Septemberis supposed to be our winter in
Tanzania.
And now you might think, okay,hang on, this guy is telling us
to come down to Tanzania forwinter, but the coldest it gets
is like 19 degrees and you knowthe local people still fold with

(20:48):
that.
So it's how winter and you knowwhen Europeans come, or when
all the foreigners come, theyreally enjoy the not so hot
weather, which is July, August,September.
The second time to visit iswhen Christmas.
Obviously it's a good familytime and a holiday time.
We then have December, which isthe hottest time of the year,
but it's a great festive time,the Christmas period and finally

(21:12):
you have February and March,also a good time to see the
migration because they're morein the central Serengeti part
when it's the carving season, soyou see nature at its best,
Unbelievable scenes that you canexperience in that area.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Thanks for that, cliff.
That's exactly why we went whenwe did the calving season and
obviously there's some dramaticwildlife displays that occur
there, not only in terms of themigration, but also seeing some
of the big cats hunting, becauseobviously there are babies and
trying to protect their newborn.
It is really dramatic.
I'm sure many people havewatched, whether it be the

(21:49):
Discovery Channel or the, andthis is where it's totally
different, when you experienceit in person.
So it's a marvel to see on aBBC Earth documentary, but you
absolutely have to go there foryourself.
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And now back to the show.
Tell us a little bit more.
I'm keen to also know, cliff,when I think about the people
that travel to these safaris,one of the things that I came to
understand in my time workingwith African travel, lion World

(25:07):
and marketing safaris andbuilding out these websites, one
was trying to understand thegeography and the experiences
and exactly what you've kindlydescribed, so that you actually
know why Tanzania, what itoffers, when you should go.
But one of the things that Ilearned on the marketing side
was that when people travel toAfrica, there's typically it's
often what I became familiarwith was the idea of celebration

(25:30):
travel.
People were celebrating a majorevent or milestone, like a
honeymoon, retirement, a majorlife event, and often that
involved then couples, whichobviously makes sense the two
people traveling together, whichobviously makes sense, the two
people traveling together.
Tell us, if you wouldn't mind.
I know photography has becomethat much more important.
So photography travel.
But tell us, from what you'reseeing with the clients that are

(25:52):
booking the trips with you,what are some of the trends
you've noticed in the clientsbooking their safaris?
Are they solo travelers,families, multi-generational
groups?

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Take us a little bit through the people that you
would meet on safari and howyou've seen that evolving and
changing.
Even our company, savannahTours.
We even have child seatsavailable, you know.
So if you come with a youngerchild, you need a child seat.
We fit it into the vehicle soyou travel in comfort.
We have a special next for thechild as well.

(26:35):
So that's there.
We have also seen honeymooncouples.
This has been on the increase,but before the honeymoon we have
had many weddings that havetaken place.
People love these bush weddings.
They come out there and weorganize the whole blessing and

(26:55):
everything out there in themiddle of the Serengeti or in
one of the other national parks.
That happens, honeymoons happen.
Sabama has done quite a few50-year birthday celebrations.
Our biggest was that we did onetwo years ago when we had a
group of like 40 people thatcame in and it was a four-day

(27:20):
event.
They stayed in one nationalpark they actually stayed in
town near a national park andthey were busy every day we kept
them busy, kept thementertained.
You went, they stayed in oneNassau Park.
They actually stayed in townnear Nassau Park and they were
busy every day.
We kept them busy, kept thementertained and, yep, we
organized it all.
You also see a lot of singletravelers coming, people who are
specifically interested ineither monitoring, following the

(27:45):
wildlife, or just watching apride of lion and just staying
with the lion the whole day.
Or some people who justliterally come and want to do a
short game but spend timereading their book and just
enjoying being out there in thewilderness.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
That's fascinating.
I never realized thein-destination wedding was
significant.
Obviously, I would love to beinvited to a wedding in Tanzania
I get the honeymooners for sureand the 50th.
I mean that all the one thingyou mentioned, obviously, is the
solo travelers which I waslooking at, a stat going into
our series.
I mean it is about 60% couplesand then 40% friends travel,

(28:21):
which is, you know, and more andmore people that are traveling
with small groups or, you know,solo female travelers.
I did learn this too, cliff,just recently myself, because
I'm always staying, you know,very focused on the trends that
we're seeing and being able tohighlight that to our listeners,
and one of them that came outof the Forbes Travel Guide
conference in Monaco justrecently was this dramatic rise

(28:42):
in the last five years of solotravelers, and it's
overwhelmingly female, and thestat that I heard, that I made a
note of, was that 47% of thosesolo female travelers are
divorced or widows, and someonehad said to me right afterwards
that's sad and it's like, well,not necessarily If, if they're
traveling, at least they'reactually.
You know so, but there clearlyis more solo female travelers

(29:03):
that um, and then, in terms ofthe um, the types of experiences
that they are specificallyseeking, and I guess that's
where um it you know culturally,depending on where they're
coming from.
That's the other thing I wasalso keen to understand from you
, cliff, is that I know we oftenrely a lot on the English
source markets and that clearlyis where most of our listeners

(29:24):
are US, canada, uk, australia.
What have you seen in terms ofthe trends?
Are you seeing more Americantravelers?
Are you seeing more peopletraveling from Asia or from
Europe?
Have you seen a bit of a changeto the profile of the customers
and where they're travelingfrom geographically?
Yes, we have seen.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean, it has always been the European market and
the US market that has beenfeeding us with tourists all
these years now.
But there is a big grow in theAsian market from Japan, from
China, from India, from SouthKorea, from Indonesia.
These markets are growing andthey are huge marketing areas

(30:05):
for us to go into.
That we are looking currently.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
That's really interesting.
I mean it makes total sense.
I know that Matthew Upchartshould highlight to me.
There's 100 million Chinesetravelers that haven't reentered
the global travel market andare starting to do so.
So South Korea, obviously Japanis a massive inbound
destination, but obviously a lotof travelers outbound from
Japan.
So that's yeah there werecertainly quite a few Asian
travelers, for sure when I wasthere and European, and I guess
that's where we need to makesure that we are balanced in our

(30:31):
some of the challenges that arehappening geopolitically around
the world at the moment.
We need to make sure that we'rediversifying our source markets
.
But a lot of people have aperception that an African
safari is luxury and certainlythe word luxury has changed
significantly because luxury ismuch more accessible and that's
a wonderful thing for manymiddle class and kind of upper
middle class that are lookingfor a luxurious experience that

(30:53):
can splurge on a holiday.
Then there's obviously thesehigh net worth individuals that
are going to book out an entirecamp and fly private jets.
That's a whole world untoitself which is growing
significantly as well.
And then of course you havekind of the budget conscience
not quite backpacker, becauseAfrica, you know is, is moving
more in the direction of gettingindependent travelers.

(31:14):
But for the most part you comewith a tour operator with
accommodations uh, sorted outalready, but you still will have
budget focused travelers.
And I guess that's the part Iwas also keen to understand with
Tanzania is how much of uh thedestination really caters to
luxury safari experiences, um,you know those curated uh, and
we've heard a lot about that andI think that's what people have

(31:34):
the perception of.
But I'd love if you could alsodemystify too, since I know
that's that's a real passion forJoshua, that he actually wants
to, I guess, more democratizeaccess to people traveling in
East Africa and make it moreaccessible.
So he was very kindlyhighlighting to me, as people
were here in next week'sinterview, um, about the price
point being far more accessible.

(31:54):
So tell us how you get youcater to that wide audience and,
from your perspective, puttingthese packages together, how you
can make some affordable andsome luxurious.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
So if we go back a little bit here, in the early
days all the safaris werebackpacking safaris type, but
not all.
Most of the safaris werebackpacking.
That's how people traveled outhere.
There were these campingsafaris, whereby you left out on
safari and you had your cook inthe vehicle, you had your tents

(32:25):
in the vehicle and you traveledout there and that was the most
basic safari that one could do.
That is still available today.
We still have students who arecoming out here and wanting to
do safaris like that, justpurely for the experience as
well, whereby you are out in thewilderness, there's no fence
around you, there's nothingaround you.

(32:47):
But this has evolved over theyears.
We've had better lodges, moreaffordable lodges whereby, for a
little bit more extra money,you're actually in a lodge.
At the end of the day, you'rein a guest house facility, a
tourist guest house facilityclose to the National Park that
you can stay in and you canafford the safari.

(33:10):
In terms of luxury in Tanzania,I would say there's two levels
of luxury.
There's one, what I call theaffordable luxury, that it's
opened out.
It's available to most of thepeople today.
And there is the other luxury,as you mentioned, those that fly

(33:34):
in with private jets and gofrom one national park to the
next in a jet again, but thatonly accounts, I would say
roughly, at about 20% of ourmarket today.
There are specific lodges thatcater for this type of tour, but
the rest of the lodges,although they are four-star and
five-star, they are affordabletoday.

(33:56):
I mean, tanzania is not a cheapdestination.
I can tell you that it is anexpensive destination.
From whatever level you arelooking at, whether it's
mid-range or semi-marketplace,it is an expensive destination.
But you know what I say it's aholiday of a lifetime.
If you're going to do it, do itonce.

(34:18):
Spend a few more extra days,spend a little bit more money
and, believe me, it's anexperience of a lifetime.
So, yes, one has to think aboutthe money, but think about it.
It's an experience you're never, ever going to forget.
So spend a little bit more andenjoy the experience.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more.
And that, obviously, when youexperience a lodge that has like
a plunge pool or just, you know, the exquisite food or the
gorgeous accommodations with thespectacular views, I mean it
all adds up to a heightenedexperience.
And you know, often these tripsthemselves are, you know, you
might spend three days on thesafari part.
So it's uh, it is importantthat you, I guess you treat

(34:59):
yourself when it comes to whereyou stay and what you do.
One of the things I wanted toask you too, cliff, is that when
I experienced Tanzania, westarted in Tanzania and we went
to Kenya and of course they, um,there are amazing attractions
and, uh, uh, national parks onboth sides.
And when someone's traveling toTanzania, how many people who

(35:20):
are traveling to Tanzania willdo Tanzania exclusively and how
many people will also doTanzania and Kenya, and how do
you work that out with youritinerary?
Are you handing them over toanother partner or are you
actually crossing over and doingboth countries?

Speaker 1 (35:37):
So when a client is doing Kenya and Tanzania, we are
using our partners in Kenya andbasically we're handing over.
For example, if you are in theMasai Mara today, you can get a
flight that actually takes youfrom the Masai Mara to a border
crossing point and then into theSerengeti.
So when you arrive in theSerengeti, the Tanzania partner

(35:59):
is there to pick you up.
And likewise, on the authenticside, on the authentic direction
, we try and complement eachother and sometimes, when I'm
discussing and trying to tailor,make a program, I feel that
there's a lot more Tanzania hasto offer in terms of wildlife,

(36:19):
experiences and different areasthat sometimes I managed to
convince people just do aTanzania safari and get the
whole experience from it, ratherthan doing more, just pointed
out that the bassai marrow,which is, you know, cultural
heritage and communityconnection, is certainly much

(36:40):
more of a driver for people'stravel experiences today, and
I'm just genuinely curious howimportant that is to the
itineraries you put together.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
I know, obviously people are primarily traveling,
uh, for the wildlife, they'retraveling to see the savannah
and, you know, to be able toexperience the um.
But one of the other thingsthat people are looking for is
that is that connection.
How do you factor that in?
Even in tanzania, when it comesto um, cultural heritage and
some of the community connection, how do you work with the local
communities and how do you, howdo you build that in?

(37:11):
Where does that fit into someof the itineraries?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
if you will, then then the uh, the thing about it
just being a wildlife experienceis nowadays something of the
past.
This has changed a lot over theyears.
Every single safari program hasa cultural experience to it.
We offer and we add on andclient can choose even more.

(37:33):
But we offer experiences likevisiting a Maasai village,
visiting the Hadzabe tribe whoare hunter-gatherers, or going
on a canoe on a lake.
You know you're paddling outthere yourself.
We offer walking safaris.
We take you out on a walk ifyou're interested in.
So there are lots of options.

(37:55):
I think gone are the days whenpeople just want to get into the
vehicle in the morning andspend four or five hours just
driving along all over the place.
So we do have these add-ons.
That has now become part ofevery single itinerary.
The cultural experience is abig thing.
The Maasai village visit peoplealways want to visit that and

(38:21):
go and experience that.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's great.
I appreciate giving that context, really important to understand
, and I guess I'm glad you youvalidated what we're you know,
in general terms, we're seeingabout traveler behavior.
I guess the other thing to todive into is the sustainability
side as it relates to, becauseobviously we talked about
cultural preservation, we talkeda bit of certainly you
highlighted about the rhinos,which couldn't be more important

(38:45):
to make sure that the wildlifeis protected, especially many of
these species that are on theendangered list and shockingly
low numbers, when you look at it, from all the factors that are
negatively impacting them.
But certainly, how do we maketourism a force for good and
what are you and the Savannahteam specifically doing when it

(39:06):
comes to sustainability?
Because I'm sure there arethings that you are very aware
of, since you're so close to theland, the people and the
experience about what you needto do to make sure that it is
truly sustainable as a businessand for future generations.
So, yeah, talk us through, ifyou wouldn't mind, cliff, some
of the things that SavannahTours is doing or planning to do
to support sustainability more.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Lodges and tented camps are very conscious about
their water supply, their poweruse.
You know everybody's changingfrom, rather than just having
generators, to solar panels.
They're digging wells trying toget water in the area rather

(39:56):
than having to truck them in asthey used to do in the past.
Recycling is a big thing.
That's taking place at thelodges.
Single-use plastic now is acomplete no-go no-go in Tanzania
.
Right from the time you arriveat the borders, the clear, big
announcement that single-useplastic is not allowed.
I mean, even when you are goingto duty-free and they pack your

(40:20):
duty-free item in one of thoseduty-free plastic bags at the
borders, they make you to openit and take it out and leave the
plastic there.
So single-use plastic iscompletely out now.
In terms of vehicles, we'relooking at different things and
the latest in the last two yearsnow they're talking about

(40:43):
electrical vehicles in Tanzania.
This is still a few years aheadin the future, but it's
something already on the chartsthat tour companies are now
considering this and seeing howthey can fit in Things also like
, for example, the porters onMount Kilimanjaro.
They're being provided withproper equipment, proper

(41:05):
clothing.
Everybody's trying and buildingthings to improve all the
different types of services thatwe offer out here today.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned about
electric vehicles, because I'msure that's the first thing that
stands out to many of theguests that they would like to
see that.
But clearly there arechallenges, and I guess this is
where I ask the question,because there are some that are
practical and are very sensible.
I just was in Europe and Irented an electric car and I ran
into all sorts of issues tryingto recharge it, because even in

(41:35):
a place like the south ofFrance, there's difficulty
finding chargers and chargingstations and um and so, to
compare to being out on safariand looking for a supercharger
like it's, uh, there there arecertain challenges and
complexities, but, um, but yeah,no, I appreciate you touching
on those because it is obviouslyso important to today's modern
traveler and and clearly we allneed to do more and be that much

(41:58):
more conscientious of our, ourfootprint.
But in terms of how safaris areevolving, since we, you know,
we're kind of now on that topicwe're starting to think about,
you know, electric vehicles andand how much innovation there
can be in this space, tell uswhy.
I guess what you see the futureof, um, the safari experience
was what are some of the thingsthat you are looking to do at

(42:19):
Savannah Tours to prepare forthe future, as traveler behavior
does continue to change.
There are some other thingsthat you are, especially with
the aging traveler too that aremore fit than healthy than ever,
but I know one of the thingsthat had come up in speaking to
Ian was just the fact that thereis, you know, people are
focused on wellness and healthand therefore they want to do

(42:41):
things like you've described.
They want to do hikes, theywant to get outside of the
vehicle, they want, you know,fitness, they want to have a lap
pool rather than just a plungepool.
So I guess what are some of thethings that you're paying
attention to being, you know, soclose to this industry with how
you see it evolving in the nextfive to 10 years?
How do you see the future ofsafaris in East Africa?

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I think safaris are no longer going to be just about
driving around.
It's about experiencing thecountry around you.
It's about these extraactivities that are going to
happen.
A culture thing is a huge thing.
On the walking safaris thatwe're talking about, there are

(43:25):
some of the excursions that weoffer where you're actually
going out for a walk, on athree-night walk or a four-night
walk, and you actually enjoythe terrain as you go through
that.
Savannah Tours, as a company, weare trying to offer more and
more diversity in all theprograms that we can offer today
in terms of culture, culturehas been the big thing.

(43:50):
I think people go back with agood view about what's happening
and what was in the past.
We are also doing things likeimproving the services that we
provide.
Uh, we have no more plasticbottles in our vehicles.
Every client is gifted with aproper steel water bottle with
us.
We, uh, we.

(44:12):
The lunch boxes that we provideare all in disposable boxes
that can be, you know, notplastic anymore.
So we are doing as much as wecan, but there's still a lot
more to do.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
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Now back to the show.
This is the other thing I wasalso keen to know is like when
we think about the types oftravelers and, um, how some of
their motivations are changing,whether it be um short term,
like the.
Are people, you know,post-pandemic I know we're a few

(47:39):
years post-pandemic now, butclearly people's traveler
behavior it changed quitesignificantly and it still is
given and and and it willcontinue to so when?
So, when we're having thisconversation in 2025 and looking
at this year, how many tripsare booked ahead for 26 or 27?
Are you seeing that more peopleare booking last minute?

(48:00):
Are you seeing more people areactually planning a lot farther
ahead?
When you think about Tanzania asa destination, are there new
areas that you're opening up?
Is there new game parks thatare being initiated or new
destinations within Tanzania?
Because certainly one of theother trends we've certainly
seen is that people are lookingto find hidden gems, travel a

(48:22):
little further afield,especially in areas where
they're concerned aboutover-tourism.
So take us through, if youwouldn't mind, some of those
other things that you're payingattention to, some of those
signals, if you will, about howthe traveler behavior is
changing, and then some of thenew areas that might be opening
up in Tanzania.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
So so far, I mean, we've only just mentioned
Serengeti and Goromboro and theTaringe.
This is basically the northerncircuit of Tanzania, but that's
not all Tanzania has to offer.
Tanzania has a lot morenational parks.
We have what I consider thesouthern circuit.
What is the southern circuit,which is previously called the

(49:04):
Selugane Reserve, now NyerereNational Park, the Ruaha
National Park.
If we go further west, we havekomazi game reserves.
So there's a lot more.
There's more for people to havevisit national parks that have
no other vehicles in it, youknow, or very few vehicles in it

(49:26):
.
Uh, compared to the serengeti,where you're driving around and
another 50 other land cruisersaround you at the same time, you
go to somewhere like the neararea national park and you can
be driving for, although yourcamp that you're staying in is
fully booked, but you can bedriving around for hours on end
and not see another vehicle andjust be out there in the

(49:47):
wilderness, experiencing thewildlife and the opportunities
that it offers to you.
Tanzania is opening up more interms of, aside from just
wildlife.
We have areas whereby you cango up hiking into the Lesotho
Highlands and, you know,obviously there's the Mount
Kilimanjaro as well to climb.

(50:07):
So, yeah, there's a lot morethat Tanzania can offer you
today.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, I'm glad you actually mentioned Mount
Kilimanjaro because obviouslythat's the highest point In
Africa.
Many people make it one oftheir life ambitions to climb
Kilimanjaro.
I haven't had the privilege yet.
Many people I know have.
Some people have tried and notquite been able to achieve it,
which just shows you just howdifficult it still is, despite

(50:32):
you know, just in terms ofaltitude and some things that
people can struggle with.
So, yeah, no, I appreciate itand I think this is where, like,
there's so much to see andexplore in Tanzania and
obviously I'd love to have theopportunity to come back at some
point.
Certainly, this conversation isleading me more and more to the
fact that I need to come back tosome point.
Certainly, this conversation isleading me more and more to the

(50:53):
fact that I need to come backto East Africa, in terms of your
company and where you're headedin the next few years.
With regards to expanding someof the offerings, including some
of those destinations you justmentioned, I guess what's on the
horizon for Savannah tours in?
You know some of the thingsyou're paying you are looking to
offer travelers in 2025 and2026.

(51:13):
How, how do you see your, yourbusiness, evolving, in your team
growing Because the way westarted this cliff is that you
know the uh potential is thereto double the size of this uh,
this industry, in this market,given demographic changes.
So I'm sure you and the teamare looking at that and trying
to figure out how best positionyour business for it.
So yeah, tell us exactly whatyou have planned and in store

(51:35):
with Savannah Tours.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
So first of all, just to answer a question of yours
that I missed out Today, moreand more travelers are booking
well in advance.
Okay, good to know.
Yeah, we don't see this lastminute bookings anymore.
You do have a small percentageof it, but everybody's planning
well in advance and the wayTanzania has been going this

(51:59):
year in 2025, we already for ourcoming season this July and
August, we are already giving.
When somebody asks us for adate, and if we're not able to
fulfill that date, we arealready offering them date in
2026.
And we have seen the trend thatpeople are actually booking
ahead for 2026 already.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, that's important context.
I'm glad you clarified that,cliff, because one of the stats
that I recently came up againsttoo, is that you know, in March
2025, depending on when peopleare listening to this that
almost all crews so 70% of oceancruises are sold out for this
year.
So the availability that you'reworking with is less than 30%

(52:41):
and they're still sellingthrough quickly.
So to your point is that youknow this, this um, you know the
crazed last minute bookingactivity that was happening.
More people are planningfurther ahead, which obviously I
would say then it gives yourbusiness the opportunity to
prepare for that scale in termsof the number of vehicles hiring
up staff, the logic,availability.
So in many ways, that's, Iguess, a valuable trend.

(53:04):
But, yeah, please tell us again, cliff, how I guess you're
preparing for that, knowing thatyou're selling through now on
2025 and most people listeningto this need to start planning
for 2026.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yes, you need to plan for 2026.
We already have a team in ouroffice specifically dealing with
2026 right now, because we'realready taking in bookings for
2026, as we can't offer a lot.
I think it's only about 30%that's available for the rest of
2025.
So we're all planning toward2026.

(53:37):
But aside from that, aside fromthe normal Serengeti, gorongoro
, what we are also trying tooffer and pursue clients is to
look at the other national parks, especially for people and we
have quite a few of those whoare second-time visitors to
Tanzania already been to theSerengeti and the Gorongoro we

(53:57):
are trying to give them new,different types of programs.
If you visit, for example, theNyerere National Park, it's not
just about game driving there.
It's about both safari on theriver and a walking safari.
All that is possible there.
So we are trying to expand ourprograms and to try and convince

(54:17):
people that you can visit othernational parks and get equally
good experience during theadventure.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
That's great.
One of the things I should havecalled out a bit earlier in our
conversation, because I knowmany of our listeners are
multitasking and I'm going toask you in a moment about where
people can go for moreinformation, but actually I just
wanted to highlight um Savannah, tz, as we can even say, or TZ,
as our American friends say.
Um com is your website and um.
One of the things I was reallyimpressed about and this goes

(54:48):
back to my conversation withJoshua and one of my questions
for you about the range of tripsthat you offer is that you know
you actually have a seven day,10 destination safari trip that
starts at $863.
And I mean that's justremarkable.
And I know you have many tripsthat are a thousand or 2000, but
for many of our listenersthey're not $10,000.

(55:09):
Or 2000, but for many of ourlisteners they're not $10,000.
And I think this is soimportant.
As we've had this, you know,deep, dive into, look at the
world of African safaris and tonot only look at geographically
the different regions in Africaand why you might experience
each of them, and clearlywilderness has a very unique
audience.
You work with them, so you, youknow you can sell the luxury
product experience as well.
But I think that one of thethings that's exciting me about

(55:29):
when we look at global travelersone of the stats too, cliff,
that really excited me was thatin 2024, we had 400 million
travelers globally, which alsotells you you know, when you
think about our population 8billion people it's less than 5%
have the privilege andopportunity to take leisure
trips and travel, but thereality is it's growing.
So the number for 2050 is isgoing to be about 800 million,

(55:52):
and one of the big drivers forthat is a rising middle class
and giving more people theopportunity to experience a trip
that would have been, at onepoint, considered to be, you
know, only for, uh, the ultrawealthy.
So I love that.
You, you know, you tap into akey word that I learned from
Lucille Siv, who runs Lion World, had did for many years.
That I learned from Lucille Siv, who runs Lion World, had did
for many years, and I learned alot from her, and one of the

(56:12):
things was affordable luxury,and that's essentially the trip
that we had.
It was just like you want tofeel luxurious but you want it
to be accessible, otherwise it'snot going to be an option for
you.
So, um, you know, I'm reallyenjoying this conversation with
you.
I got a couple of last questionsthat I do want to make sure
people can uh, uh, you, you canleave everyone with some
suggestions for not only wherethey can find out more about

(56:33):
Savannah tours, but also toconnect with you and and and to
learn more about uh safaris inAfrica, because some of the
things that I have learned indoing this series is that some
of these companies are actuallyexpanding internationally, like
that wilderness is now going tobe opening camps in South
America and other destinationsaround the world, which I think
is terrific, because I thinkthat Africa has so much to offer

(56:54):
the world.
But, yeah, so one of the thingsI want to ask you, cliff, is
you know, given guess mostmemorable or standout stories
from yourself or your family, oreven if it is like with guests

(57:15):
or a group, you know that waskind of really life-changing or
impactful.
I just, I mean, for me, this iswhy we travel.
So, yeah, if you wouldn't mindsharing with one of your
highlights, that would befantastic.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Every experience is different.
I think every traveler willexperience their own different
memorable moment, and for me.
I had been on quite a fewsafaris and you know I've
enjoyed seeing my life indifferent areas and all that.
But recently, about a year ago,I was on safari with a client

(57:49):
of mine and we were in TaungireNational Park and the experience
there has baffled me completely.
There was a pride of lion thatwere feeding on a prey and we
were just parked and we werejust watching all this happen in

(58:09):
front of us.
We were just parked and we werejust watching all this happen
in front of us and suddenly ourguide pointed out that there are
some cheetahs in the area aswell.
So we're sitting there quietlyand watching it, and these
cheetahs approached the pride oflion to try and chase them away
in order to get to the prey.
Even our guide, who has donemany more safaris than I have,

(58:33):
was so shocked he has never,ever, experienced like this,
anything like this.
The cheetahs actually managedto chase the lion away and then
they went and they ate the preythemselves.
So that was an experience Iwill never, ever forget.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I've seen such great things, but that was just
perfect for me.
Yeah, that sounds incredibleand, um, I've certainly, um, my,
my son, watched a lion attack azebra and kill a zebra and it's
like it's, it's going to be uh,um, it's going to stay with him
for the rest of his lifebecause he was shocked and
horrified, but then, you know,it's uh, um, it was quite a
profound thing to see, and Iguess not everyone gets to see a

(59:13):
kill, I guess, as they'rereferred to on a, on a safari,
but this was uh, um, quiteprofound, even just to watch the
zebra's response to losing oneof theirs, and, um, and they
waited around until it wascertain that it wasn't going to
make it.
And it's, yeah, it's quite amoment.
So I appreciate you sharingthat, because I think cheetahs

(59:33):
are the most remarkable, giventheir speed and their agility.
One of the yeah, it's quitesomething to watch.
Now tell us, for someonelistening to this that is now
wants to plan their trip.
So I guess I've got twoquestions for you on advice for
travelers, and then I want togive you the last word here,
cliff.
So someone wants to plan theirvery first safari to Tanzania.

(59:56):
What advice would you give them?
Don't?

Speaker 1 (59:59):
rush.
Allow yourself sufficient timeto travel.
Don't be one of those touristswho want to do all the national
parks in three days just to say,being there, done back.
You know, allow yourself time,enjoy, relax, the.
The nature is one thing, it'sit's beautiful being out there

(01:00:21):
watching the early morningsunrise, being out there in the
quiet and the peacefulness.
The lodges, the camps theyoffer amazing facilities,
breathtaking views from some ofthem perched up on the hills,
and all that Beautiful swimmingpools in some of the lodges.
You know, take a book, relax,enjoy, read a book, do your game

(01:00:45):
drives, but don't rush.
This would be my big thing.
Don't rush.
Give yourself a good six toseven days and enjoy the whole
thing.
That would be my recommendationfor anybody planning a safari.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Yeah, that's great advice, and to switch off and
actually be present.
That's the only thing I wouldadd to that more as a tip to
myself, because, like manypeople, like you, can't take a
vacation from yourself, and ifyou're hard charging, coming
into your holiday and still onyour phone, you're not going to
make the most of that time, andactually so the other.
The last one I wanted to alsoask you is that, uh, you

(01:01:20):
probably see a lot of firsttimers make fairly common
mistakes.
The one that we certainly didwas not bringing our own
binoculars, which our guidecouldn't believe we didn't have
them.
We were on extended trip and weso that was, and even the
quality of the camera that wehad, I mean, clearly, other
people bring.
So, yeah, I guess what would bea couple of common mistakes
that you see first time safarimakers uh, safari travelers make

(01:01:42):
, um, and how best to avoidthose?

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Ask questions, ask what is available, what can be
provided, even Savannah tours,we provide a lot of things.
We provide binoculars in thevehicle.
You know we can help you withequipment that you might need.
But ask questions, what?
What you specifically enjoy,even if it's your diet?
You have specific diets and allthat.
Don't you know.

(01:02:05):
Don't just think it'll besorted out or it'll be available
there.
These are not hotels in one ofthe cities that you're used to
traveling in.
This is something in the middleof a national park and
everything has to be catered forand it can be catered for.
Whether it's a specific diet orwhatever, we can cater for it.

(01:02:27):
But you need to ask questionsand you need to tell us what you
need and what you think youshould bring.
We have a list, a packing listthat we provide, outlined to
help them pack and give themideas on what they need to have
with them when they're traveling.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
That's great.
We'll have to share thatbecause I'm sure many of our
listeners will be intrigued andwe can make sure that there's a
few links in the show notes whenyou find this, just so you can
get more information.
And that's where I want tofinish off with Cliff, so that
any of our listeners can connectwith you, cliff, and I also
just wanted to acknowledge, as Igive you the floor, to let our
listeners know how to find outmore about Savannah Tours and

(01:03:06):
connect with you directly.
How to find out more aboutSavannah Tours and connect with
you directly.
First, I just wanted to say abig thank you for persevering to
make this happen, because Ireally enjoyed meeting you in
person.
We have tried now three or fourtimes to make this recording
happen remotely.
We've both been determined tomake it happen.
Various technical challenges onboth of our ends, but I've been
in Berlin and you've.
Obviously we've had internetconnectivity issues, but we

(01:03:30):
finally made it happen.
I'm so glad we did.
It was such a specialconversation and I'm just deeply
appreciative.
Yeah, so thank you very muchfor this clip.
But, yeah, tell everyone howthey can find out more about
Savannah Tours and to connectwith you, whether it be to book
their safari trip or to booktheir clients in for a future
trip.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
So you can have a look at all that we offer on our
website, which iswwwsavannatzcom.
We have a full range of toursthat we normally offer out there
and we can design somethingspecifically for you.
There's an inquiry page therethat you can get in touch with

(01:04:06):
us.
If everything on the websiteseems too confusing, just drop
us an email, tell us how many ofyou are traveling how many, and
we will design and come backout to you.
We try and offer as much as wecan and our goal is to improve
client experience, and this iswhat we're targeting over the

(01:04:27):
next years to come is just toimprove the client experience so
that you have a great time whenyou come to Tanzania and, yeah,
you will have a memorableexperience and you go back
almost feeling very happy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
That's wonderful.
Thank you, cliff, and those ofyou who are using your AI agent
to just send them in thedirection of Cliff and Savannah
Tours and just say book me thatsafari.
And if people want to connectwith you directly too, cliff
Cliff D'Souza, you're onLinkedIn or any other way to be
able to reach out to youdirectly for partnership
opportunities.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
I'm on LinkedIn, yes, on LinkedIn, and you can even
connect with me directly off thewebsite.
My direct email is on thewebsite.
My telephone number is off thewebsite.
My direct email is on thewebsite.
My telephone number is on thewebsite.
You can connect with medirectly for a conversation, or
yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah, no, that's great, and I definitely
encourage you to because, asyou've heard from this
conversation, cliff is an expert.
His family has been in thisbusiness for more than 50 years.
He's only spent a short coupleof decades running this uh, this
company, but, uh, I knowthere's a lot that uh's a lot
more I could learn from you andour listeners as well.
So, thank you, cliff, and Ilook forward to keeping in touch
and at some point seeing youagain somewhere in the world,

(01:05:38):
and hopefully at some point inAfrica on a safari.
So thank you again and wishingyou and the team the best of
luck in 2025 and beyond.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Thank you very much, Dan.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
And, yes, we look forward to catching up with you
one day.
Thanks so much for joining uson the latest episode of Travel
Trends.
I hope you enjoyed thisdiscussion with Cliff D'Souza,
all about Savannah tours inTanzania.
We have one more episode in oursafari series coming up next
week and we'll be speaking toJoshua DaSilva, who, of course,
is the nephew of Cliff, and Ithink this was really
interesting the way everythingcame together, because you'll
get a sense of where thisindustry is headed in terms of

(01:06:15):
the technology and distributionwhen we speak to Joshua next
week.
And we've had three fantasticconversations with operators,
with agencies and with thepeople that actually run these
camps.
So I think this was a great wayto start our African Safari
series, but I'm definitely goingto be inspired to do more.
I was just at the ITBconference in Berlin and spoke

(01:06:36):
to a number of operators thereand had a number of other
companies reach out to us.
So, for sure, we'll definitelylook at continuing this
conversation in season six,which will start in August, but
we've got lots more excitingcontent coming up in season five
, after our safari series, we'regoing to actually do a quick
two-part look at rail in Europe.
It's a topic we have notcovered before.

(01:06:58):
We're going to have the CEO ofRail Europe join us, as well as
the CEO of Rail Bookers, andthen we're going to do another
deep dive into the world ofguided touring, whether you call
it escorted touring or, asTourRadar would refer to it,
organized adventures.
We're going to speak to thebiggest players in the guided
touring industry and understandthe background and where it is

(01:07:18):
today and where it's headed inthe future, especially with
small group and this concept ofadventure, and how many of these
established players haveevolved to remain relevant and
are seeing some of the mostsuccessful growth of their
entire history.
So there's many fascinatingconversations and of course
that's part of my background andI was really keen to bring this
series together.

(01:07:39):
So that is coming up.
And then we're going to have adeep dive into river cruises,
which is very aligned withguided touring.
As you'll see, a number ofthese companies actually operate
in both areas.
So we're going to have a numberof interesting companies that
overlap into both thosecategories and then we're going
to finish off season five with alook at in destination
experiences.

(01:07:59):
So lots to look forward to.
Season five is really justgetting underway.
We always appreciate yourfeedback.
Please take a moment to give usa review on apple or Spotify.
We love hearing your feedback,and also we're putting more and
more effort into our YouTubechannel, so make sure that you
check out some of the clips andthe highlights there, as well as
on Instagram and LinkedIn.

(01:08:19):
And then, of course, we do sendout our monthly newsletter with
a summary of all the latestepisodes and our travel plans
for the next month.
I'm going to be doing a lotmore travel and you can find all
of those dates on our eventspage on TravelTransPodcastcom,
so if you're going to be at anyof those events, be sure to
reach out.
It'd be great to meet you inperson and, wherever possible, I
look to incorporate those ofyou into the podcast.

(01:08:42):
I hope you're enjoying thisseries and I look forward to
bringing you one more episode.
Until then, safe travels.