Investing in Travel in 2026 with Chris Hemmeter, Thayer Ventures

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
I've never seen a more dynamic and exciting time
to be a travel tech entrepreneurthan today.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everyone and welcome back to Travel Trends
Season 6.
I am so excited.
One of the reasons is that, asmany people would have seen on
my LinkedIn posts over the pastweek, we dropped our kids off at
university and it's certainlybeen a tough week.
I appreciated all the comments,but this gives me much more
time to focus on travel trendsand all of our partnerships, so
I'm looking forward to theevents I'm traveling to and

(00:34):
anything that will distract mefrom missing the kids and them
not being in their rooms in thehouse much quieter than it's
ever been.
So I just wanted to say aspecial thank you to all of our
listeners who supported our showover the last five seasons all
of our partners.
We couldn't be more energizedand enthusiastic about season
six and that's actually a bigreason that we came up with the
captains of industry theme.
We have listeners now in 125countries and we have such an

(00:58):
incredible reach and a platformthat many industry executives
want to be on the Travel Trendspodcast, and we certainly very
much appreciate the recognitionand the opportunity now to
showcase some of the most highprofile individuals in the
industry that have reached outto be on our show or that we've
reached out to to say you've gotto be a part of this
conversation because our wholefocus is trying to bring really

(01:19):
beneficial advice from expertsto everyone working in the
travel industry that eitherwants to improve their company
or their career.
And I also wanted to start thisseason by recognizing the
amazing team that has been apart of this journey from the
beginning, and I actually haveone of them joining us today,
catherine Watts, who is our headof guesting and PR and does a
lot of our marketing activity.
She's been key to the successof our podcast and lining up all

(01:42):
these amazing guests you'regoing to hear from in season six
, including today with ChrisHemeter.
Couldn't be more thrilled to beleading off this season with the
managing director of ThayerVentures, someone that I see at
the biggest conferences on thebiggest stages and always look
for his advice.
And this interview is justdynamic and I think you heard
from that opening clip just aquick snippet of how special

(02:04):
this conversation is going to be.
But let me bring Catherine tothe conversation to give a bit
more context to what we'replanning for this season.
But, catherine, thanks so muchfor joining us for the opening
introduction.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Hey, dan, thanks so much.
Hi everyone, welcome to seasonsix.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Thank you so much.
And one of the things that wedid, as Catherine knows, we had
a team offsite at the wrap up ofseason five and, thanks to all
of our listeners over the pasttwo years we have continued to
grow our audience.
We've got listeners now in 125countries.
We have such an incrediblereach and I couldn't be more
thankful to each of you fortuning into our show and giving

(02:38):
us feedback, and some of thatwill highlight to you now with
some of the things we want to dofor season six based on that
feedback.
But I also just wanted to sharea special thank you to the team
that's helped us get to thispoint.
So Catherine has absolutelybeen with us since the very
beginning.
Zach as well, who is ourproducer.
You're going to hear from Zachthroughout the season because
he's recording all of our ads.
It's one of the otherenhancements that we planned

(02:59):
when we had our team offsite ata great celebratory lunch and
then we started planning out allthe things we want to do to
make season six our best seasonever.
And we of course have Melaniethat you have seen at some of
the conferences.
She does all of ourpartnerships and has been doing
an extraordinary job and you'llsee that in our sponsors for the
season and a lot of the customcontent we're doing.
So a big thanks to Melanie,melissa who also happens to be

(03:23):
my sister.
If people are wondering why youhave the same last name, it's
not my wife, it's literally myyounger sister.
She's amazing at social mediaand so she has been leading our
efforts on LinkedIn andInstagram and YouTube.
And then we had Eugene, our newmarketing coordinator, join us
a few months ago and she was akey part of the success of our
first in-person event, which youcan check out that video on

(03:43):
YouTube.
And so thanks to all six of you.
You can see the entire team onthe About the Show on
TravelTrendsPodcastcom.
But I just wanted to thank youguys first for making this such
a special podcast to work on.
But then I want to talk aboutthe plans for the season,
because we had so many greatideas and Catherine, captains of
Industry, was one of the onesthat when we sat in that room

(04:04):
together we debated whether ornot that was the right theme for
the season.
But, given the reach that wehave the number of executives
that want to be on the show theexecutives we reach out to.
They're so keen to participatein the conversation, and when
you think about what our missionis with Travel Trans, it's
trying to make sure that we getthe most valuable knowledge and
advice to the people that canbenefit from it most, which are
people working within the travelindustry that want to

(04:26):
understand how they can applythese insights to their
companies or to their roles, andwe have some amazing success
stories to showcase.
We have a special episode withTour Radar coming up this season
with Travis Pittman, the CEO.
They took the advice from anamazing episode we have with
Conrad from At Hotels aboutsocial is the new SEO, and
they've really transformed theirbusiness.
And is the new SEO, and they'vereally transformed their
business and really leading withsocial, and so we're going to

(04:48):
highlight Travis on that episodeto see where their business has
gotten to.
But there's so many things tolook forward to.
So, catherine, tell everyone alittle bit about the captains of
industry, some of the peoplethat our listeners are going to
meet, and then also some of thethemes that we have planned for
the season.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, of course.
So this season, as Danmentioned, is all about the
captains of industry, and it isso fitting for the caliber of
guests we'll feature.
We're thrilled to kick thingsoff with Chris Hemeter from
Thayer Ventures, and we'reexcited to bring you
conversations with Viator, Getyour Guide, ef and many more
special guests throughout theseason.

(05:23):
We are also exploring five bigthemes that are so important
right now and ones we're soexcited to include as part of
the season.
Our three new themes includeaviation, loyalty and
sustainability.
Plus, we're bringing back someof our most popular themes,
including emerging multi-day andin-destination experiences.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
You got some surprises in store for our
listeners.
I know we debated whether wewould release all the names, but
we're actually going tointentionally make a few of them
a surprise over the course ofthe season, because not only are
you going to hear from captainsof industry on the individual
episodes in between those themes, we're also making sure that,
within the aviation, loyalty,sustainability, all of the
people in those themes arecaptains of industry, so that

(06:05):
you're learning from the mostknowledgeable people that have
something important to be ableto share on those topics, and
I'm certainly very excited forthose three topics.
We've recorded some of thoseepisodes already and some of
them are to come because we wantto keep them as fresh as
possible.
But the other thing thatCatherine mentioned, too, is the
fact we're kicking off withChris Hemeter, and that is one
like today's conversation isreally special.

(06:26):
You heard that opening clipfrom him, and when he said that
about investing in 2026, there'snever been a better time.
It was so magic, and that'soften what happens in these
conversations and why Zach takesthose clips and puts them at
the beginning of the episode.
And I just wanted to highlight acouple of things that we're
planning to enhance for ourlisteners this season.
So one of the things that we'regoing to do is we're going to
shorten the intros, get rightinto the conversation.

(06:46):
We're also going to be movingthe placement of the ads so that
, again, we get right in theconversation.
We don't have them up front,and we're going to try a few
different approaches to makesure we have the most impact for
our partners and our sponsorsand to make sure that we combine
commerce and content in themost beneficial way for our
listeners.
So we've heard your feedbackand we're looking forward to

(07:06):
bringing you an enhanced formatfor this season.
And one of the things thatpeople told us as well is they
love the conversations, the longform, so the durations of these
conversations will not belimited to a certain time.
You'll see, the Columbia episodewe did was nearly three hours.
We actually have done someincredible spotlight episodes
and they've been up to fivehours and some of the people

(07:28):
have watched them over thecourse or listened to them
rather over the course ofseveral sessions.
But we timestamp them and sosome of the things that we've
heard from you and again, thisshow is for all of our listeners
and the team is so committed tobringing it together.
I enjoy it so much and ourpartners.
I can't thank them enough forbeing such strong supportive
sponsors.
So I encourage you to supportthem all and check out our
season six landing page onTravelTrendsPodcastcom.

(07:51):
And the other thing I want tohighlight, too, is we have our
big AI summit coming back thisyear.
So, catherine, do you want totell everyone what our plans are
for that?

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yes, of course.
So we are so excited to hostour second annual Travel Trends
AI Summit in partnership withTourRadar, happening virtually
October 28th and 29th.
Our AI Summit is entirelydedicated to showcasing how AI
is transforming our industry andhow it can benefit your company

(08:18):
and your career.
So we have two full days, withday one focusing on AI demos and
showcasing how travelbusinesses are leveraging this
technology to transform theirorganizations.
We'll also have interactivesessions and networking keynotes

(08:40):
, panels and fireside chats withverticals featuring multi-day
tours, cruises, hospitality,trip planning and
personalization tours andactivities, travel agencies and
so much more.
You can find all of the agendainfo and more on our website,

(09:01):
traveltrendspodcastcom.
And don't forget to buy youradvance tickets before ticket
prices go up on September 30th.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Thanks, catherine.
It was very clear from all ofour listeners they wanted us to
run this conference virtuallyagain, given our global reach
and the fact that it would bedifficult for everyone to get
together in one place.
We were looking to actuallyhost this in Toronto, where most
of us are based, but we heardfrom our listeners and from our
speakers that they wanted to beable to attend from anywhere in
the world, and it worked so welllast year, and so we have

(09:32):
packed these two days.
We actually just expanded bothdays so that they go from 830
till 6pm Eastern Standard Time,so it'll work for people in
Australia, the UK, and we willrecord all these sessions.
But you have to register, whichwe encourage you to do, because
if you look at the agenda,you'll see whether it's the
verticals or the areas ofmarketing, finance or the demos,
where you're going to get realvaluable use cases of how

(09:52):
companies are leveraging AI, andthe whole idea is to show, not
just tell, and so I'm reallylooking forward.
We have done an incredible job,mel in particular, with putting
the agenda together, and all ofour partners for stepping up,
and our sponsors as part of thatas well.
So we've got a big eventplanned for everyone at the end
of October.
And, of course, we're actuallydoing a lot more spotlight

(10:13):
episodes.
You would have seen for thoseof you who subscribe to our
newsletter we did about eightepisodes in the month of August.
We were doing executivespotlights, company spotlights,
event spotlights, and one of thethings I was most excited about
is we did our first everdestination spotlight, which was
focused on Colombia, and Ireally encourage you to listen
to that episode because it alsohighlights where we're headed.

(10:34):
We have an amazing B2B podcastthat we're all very proud of,
but we realize there's asignificant opportunity for us
to expand into B2C as well,given that we do have consumers
that listen to our podcast thateither want to get into the
travel industry or genuinelykeen to learn what's happening
in the industry, but we want to,given I love travel, be able to

(10:54):
highlight destinations aroundthe world.
We've done a partnership withTravelZoo where we're going to
be highlighting 12 destinationsfor 2026.
So I'm really excited to bringthat to you.
Those will start in Novemberand December, but we also have a
continued series of episodeswith Deloitte, with Mind Trip
and a number of custom spotlightepisodes with various partners.

(11:15):
So look for those on Thursdays.
We'll release our regularepisodes on Wednesdays and we'll
release our custom spotlightepisodes on Thursdays.
But keep in mind we have a lotmore content coming to you and,
as always, we welcome yourfeedback, which you can send to
info at traveltrendspodcastcom,as we have our new blog and
we're highlighting more excitingdevelopments happening across
our industry.

(11:36):
So it's a really excitingseason.
I'm very motivated for traveltrends in the future, going into
2026.
So thank you to Catherine,thank you again to our team and
let's get ready to kick thingsoff with a true legend of our
industry, chris Hemeter, theManaging Director of Thayer
Ventures.
Thanks again, everyone.
Welcome to season six.

(11:56):
Thanks so much for joining us,chris.
It's great to have you onTravel Trends.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Great to be here.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
For sure.
I mean, what a way to lead offseason six and where we've
gotten to with this podcast.
I've been a huge fan of yoursfor many years, you know.
I know you much more than youknow me because I've seen you on
stage so many times at Plug andPlay, at Focusrite, and you
represent or you epitomize to methe very definition of captain
of industry and so on.
This season we're going to havethe CEOs of Get your Guide and

(12:26):
many of the key figures in theindustry that are really shaping
the future of travel, and youhave been in that role for many
years, and so it's a thrill tohave you.
But I want our audience to alsoknow more about you, since
there's probably going to besome people out there that don't
know Chris Hemeter from ThayerVentures.
So would you mind actually juststarting and giving us a little
bit of your background andtelling us a little bit about

(12:47):
Thayer Ventures?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Sure, sure, happy to do it, and thanks so much for
those kind words and I lookforward to watching the season
Sounds like you've got a lineup.
So all people that I many thatI know and very much admire.
So yeah, look, I've spent myentire life in travel.
I grew up in Hawaii.
My father was a hotel developer, built a number of the big

(13:12):
destination resorts in theislands of the High Regency,
waikiki, high up Maui and soforth.
My first job was as a poolattendant at the High Regency of
Maui when I was 16 years old.
So I've grown up around wetconcrete and tourists and travel
and all the dynamics of ourindustry, and very early in my

(13:33):
career I started my ownbusinesses.
In my early 20s I just startedcreating companies.
I've started seven companiesacross my career, always in and
around technology andhospitality and so forth.
And you know, frankly, whensomeone has told you that
they've started seven companiesin their career, that's usually

(13:56):
a sign that they are hopelesslyADD, which is exactly me, and
ultimately that led me tostarting this investment
platform, thayer Ventures, 15years ago, because it truly does
sort of satisfy my intellectualcuriosity.
On any given day, I'll work onhalf a dozen different concepts

(14:17):
and things, which is quitestimulating.
Drives some people crazy, I'msure, but for me it's a good fit
.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
That's incredible and obviously, yeah, knowing that
that definitely wasn't on yourLinkedIn profile.
The companies are, butdefinitely not where you started
.
But obviously knowing that youhave that family background but
also the ability to know whatit's like to grow a business
from the ground up and then beable to advise, mentor and
invest in startups, and this iswhere you know your portfolio is
incredibly impressive and thecompanies that you have chosen

(14:44):
to invest in.
Obviously you are, you know, asought after VC firm in the
Valley, with travel specifically.
But tell everyone a little bitabout Thayer, because I think
that's where you know somepeople may be familiar with the
name, given the prominence thatit has inside the industry, and
obviously you co-founded this.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
but tell us a little bit about what the your
principles are around investingand sort of how you decided to
create the group and thestructure and what some of your
first investments were.
Yeah, sure, no it's.

(15:22):
You know a lot of it sort ofcame from some you know insights
that we had 15 years ago aboutthe dynamics of travel.
You know, one of the largestindustries on the planet Earth,
growing faster than global GDPhas for some time and is
expected to grow faster thanglobal GDP for decades to come,
historically resistant to theadoption of technology.
So, frankly, if you look at thevalue chain across travel,

(15:43):
especially if you go back 15years, it was a mess, a lot of
broken components and parts andyou know we saw some significant
disruption and dislocationhappening across generations of
travelers, across the dynamicsof the broader travel value
chain.
And what we found is that thereweren't very many venture

(16:06):
capital firms, so professional,institutional investors, that
understood or had experiencewith the complexity of travel.
And it's really easy to makemistakes investing in travel
because you know all of ustravel.
So we think intuitively, wehave a sense for the consumer

(16:26):
experience and then we make themistake of thinking that's
enough to then sort ofunderstand the components.
But, frankly, you dig into thenuts and bolts of travel,
especially on the B2B side.
It's complicated, thestakeholders are complicated.
You know, hospitality is agreat example of that.
With, you know, essentially areal estate business that has

(16:46):
layered on top of it managementcompanies and ownership groups
and franchises and brands and soforth.
Investors were just too lazy tounderstand the business or,
frankly, investors were justhaving so much trouble getting

(17:08):
up to speed and finding a, youknow, a path forward.
So we saw an opening to dosomething interesting.
And then, you know, as somebodywho has built a number of
businesses, I sort of come tothe table and I have, from the
very get-go, with theentrepreneur front and center.
To me, that is the mostimportant thing, and so I wanted

(17:29):
to build a platform where, youknow, not only were we able to
find the best companies doinginnovative work and travel, but
then, when we invested that youknow, we really were in a
position to add value.
And to me, adding value isn'tbeing, you know, somebody who
sits in the room at a boardmeeting and pontificates about

(17:49):
the balance sheet.
It's, you know, it's being ableto do good work in between the
board meetings, supportingbusiness development, sales and
strategies.
So, you know, I wanted to beable to open doors, make
connections and so forth.
So very early on, when we wereraising money for our funds, we
looked for strategic capital andnow, investing out of our

(18:11):
fourth fund and raising ourfifth, we have a number of, you
know, the world's largestplayers in travel as limited
partners in our fund, includingMarriott and Hilton and Hyatt
and Enterprise Mobility and HostHotels and Resorts and others,
and so those connections becomea really important component of
the value that we bring to thetable when we invest.

(18:32):
I also spend a great deal oftime developing and in nurturing
relationships with othercompanies within travel, whether
the big intermediaries or othersuppliers, so that again, when
I'm investing, I know people, Ican bring companies to the table
and I can help them open doors,and I think that matters.

(18:54):
When you're an early stagecompany, you know, look great
ideas and great founders andgreat engineers who are builders
by nature.
What they need areopportunities to trial and to
fail and to fix and to moveforward and iterate, and they
can only do that if they haveengagement.
So, you know, to me I feel likeadding that early in the life

(19:18):
of a company, helping them getthose relationships in place so
they can start to build anddevelop and learn and iterate
can make a huge difference andit's worked for us.
And we, you know, we, so we'veinvested, we've invested
accordingly.
We, you know, we, think aboutthe dynamics of a startup and
what has to be true about themarket and the pain point
they've identified and you knowthe, the sort of defendable

(19:39):
position that they've sought tocreate with their, with their
products.
But we ultimately then look foris it the kind of business that
we truly believe we can helpwith the contacts that we have?
And to me, that's the finalcheck.
I've got to be able to checkthat box, otherwise it's not a
great fit for us.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
For sure and it's very clear from your portfolio,
and anyone that is familiar withyourself and Thayer knows your
success story and the number ofcompanies that you've been
involved in that have beenacquired.
I mean companies like Upliftand Liftopia and Hipmunk and
Adara.
I mean there's a prettyextensive list of companies
you've invested in that havebeen acquired, but then there's

(20:16):
also some amazing companies thatyou have been also early on
that are still growingdramatically, like Muse is one
example, sonder, which isobviously an incredible success
story overall as well.
So the list goes on and I guesswhere some of the things I
certainly want to cover in ourconversation, because I know our
listeners are going to be likemake sure you ask Chris this,
and they've got so manydifferent questions that I

(20:38):
because, coming at this from allthe angles that I imagine they
want me to ask you, certainly interms of the companies you look
to invest in, and that's partof why I wanted to ask about
your portfolio.
We've had Kara Whitehill on ourshow.
She's amazing.
Obviously she works with you.
We kicked off last season withan investing in AI session with
Kevin Chang from Amex Ventures,and we know our audience loves

(20:59):
this subject One of the thingsI'd love for you to help clarify
for audiences where Thayer sitsin the investment cycle from
seed to series A to late stage,because that seems to be
something that a lot ofentrepreneurs don't necessarily
grasp right away and I'm sureyou get them all come up to you,
they see Thayer VC and you getthat pitch that they're just
yeah, what stage do youtypically look at and what would

(21:22):
be some of your advice andguidance, those people listening
to this that are in their earlystages, that have an idea like
pointme or they're on the cuspof doing something really
interesting?

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
What, what, what perks your interest?

Speaker 1 (21:34):
No, those are super important questions, and it's
interesting because we really doconsider ourselves a strategic
fund and we're a relativelysmall fund size when compared to
some of the traditionalhorizontal players in Silicon
Valley, and that's good, becausewhat it means is that we can
syndicate in rounds as a realstrategic.

(21:57):
We're not that firm that needsto have 5 million plus of
capacity, or else we can't dothe deal.
We can write smaller checksthan we have next to many of the
you know the marquee names inthe Valley, and we end up then
being that strategic team.
We've also learned, though,that we can play sort of across

(22:17):
stage.
I mean, traditionally, we'vehad this what we call a
constructed and convict strategy, where we make smaller checks
in earlier stage companies asour construction checks, and we
construct a portfolio, and thenwe provide evidence to those
entrepreneurs that we can addvalue.

(22:38):
We work with those companiesand then, of course, across a
collection of startups, thereare going to be some that just
break through, and, frankly, youknow luck and timing are two
huge components toentrepreneurial success,
unfortunately, but it's true,and so some break through, and
then we have we've come in withwhat we call our conviction

(23:00):
check, which is a much largercheck and we try to invest
heavily at that point.
But we've, you know, we've madeinvestments in very early stage
companies that are more, youknow, science, experiments, and
we want to see how they're goingto go and then we follow them
on as they get larger.
But we've also made someinvestments in companies like
Built, where we've entered at,you know, a much later stage.

(23:21):
But we saw real strategic valuein those names, in travel, and
we saw ways that we could addvalue and those have worked out
well for us too.
So you know it's anunsatisfying answer.
We basically are veryopportunistic across stage.
Again, we underwrite to, youknow, multiples on the stock

(23:42):
that or on the price that we goin for, and we look for ways
that we can add real value.
Those are the essential things.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
And then in terms of the categories, I know you work
in accommodation, that's yourbackground hospitality,
transportation.
I think those were the two mainfocus areas, but tell us a
little bit about the types ofindustries across travel that
you really focus on, like, yeah,yeah, help kind of refine the
focus, especially because, again, this is where, as a strategic

(24:09):
investor, as you've highlighted,you're obviously you're doing
your research to figure outwhere the biggest opportunities
are then, as these startups arecoming to you.
And one thing I just alsohighlight to our listeners is
that one of the things that'salways stood out to me about you
, chris, that I've been soimpressed by, is your level of
accessibility.
I mean, obviously I appreciateyou being here for this, but I
know I've seen you at Plug andPlay and people coming up to you

(24:30):
, and I've seen you at Focusright.
We saw each other in Barcelonajust recently and you're walking
the floor and people are verykeen to shake your hand and
whenever I see the Thayer kindof board desk, it seems like
intimidating, like shark tanksort of style.
People want to be behind thevelvet rope and sitting with you
in that meeting because it'sjust like wait a second, is that
the next company to be minted.
So I just wanted to highlightto our listeners not that

(24:53):
everyone's going to have thatprivilege to have this time like
I have with you now, but youknow you do make yourself very
accessible and so, when it comesto the types of verticals
within travel, are you kind ofmore focused on, say,
hospitality and transportation,or are you and technology, or
you really kind of look atanything within the travel space
as an opportunity?

Speaker 1 (25:12):
yeah, no, great question, and thanks for those.
Those comments on accessibilitylook, as a former entrepreneur,
you know, like I said, I am allabout the entrepreneur.
I really am honestly a sort ofa fan of risk takers and I
frankly think that it's theinnovators that will save the

(25:33):
world.
And so, you know, when youngentrepreneurs find the courage
to push their way through acrowd and come up and talk, yeah
, I'm going to give them timefor sure, because that's exactly
what they should be doing, andI appreciate that, and I
appreciate that it'suncomfortable.
So, you know, I'm not alwaysable to do it, because sometimes
I'm running and I have to gosomewhere else or whatnot, but I
hope to always be that way.
And trends and I'll highlight afew, but those are constantly

(26:08):
changing.
So there's always this bigcomponent that we call
opportunistic, which basicallymeans what have you got right?
I mean, entrepreneurs are outthere in the trenches developing
unique insights.
It would be, you know, sort ofarrogant if I sat back here in
my home office and thought Iknew every you know emerging
opportunity in travel.

(26:29):
I don't.
So in many cases, it's justtaking time to listen to what an
entrepreneur is working on andlearning about that.
So I always sort of leave thatopen.
But within travel today, yes,we still believe that there is a
lot of very interesting stuffhappening in the hospitality
technology stack.
I mean, it was for the longesttime just sort of stuck.

(26:51):
The PMS was a closed box cashregister that basically just
kept everybody in the businessof selling, you know, trying to
put heads in beds andtransacting.
The world has changed.
I think that fundamentally haschanged.
That's why you're seeing Musetake off because of what they
bring to the table in theirintegrated platform that enables

(27:12):
localization andexperimentation by owners.
Canary Technologies is anotherone of our absolute breakaway
home run investments all about,you know, guest management and
AI messaging and other aspectsof sort of the entire traveler
journey.
We're now, you know, bigshareholders of Travel Curious,

(27:33):
which is in the experiencesspace, again doing a lot of
integration work withhospitality.
We can talk a little bit aboutthat.
But this whole sort of world ofyou know, if we were to sort of
distill it down into componentsthat we're very excited about,
you know, in addition to allthings related to hospitality
tech and how that's changing,there's also this whole world of

(27:54):
connected commerce and how it'schanging.
So think distribution, themarketing, merchandising and
selling of travel fundamentallychanging.
And I know we'll talk about AIand the impact on the business.
Certainly AI and the way it'schanging search is fundamentally
changing the way suppliers haveto at least think about and

(28:15):
manage in this world.
So all things related todistribution I think is super
interesting.
Social commerce is another sortof emerging category.
No one's been able to reallycrack the code there, but there
are some companies doing somereally interesting work with
influencers.
That channel is becomingcritical, specifically merges

(28:41):
with social as a sort oflonger-term transactional
platform and you may see thismore organic emergence of you
know what almost look likenative travel agents that are
just sort of you know, comingout of their social space and
they'll have the tools to dothat work.
Payments is also superinteresting.
There's still a lot of frictionand cost in payments, not only

(29:06):
consumer but B2B, and we'restarting to see some of the sort
of bigger emerging horizontaltechnologies like Stablecoin
come over and play a role sortof deeper in the tech stack in
payments and I think that that'svery, very compelling and
interesting.
So you know it is broadly acrossall things related to travel.

(29:28):
Certainly, you know we've gotsome food service tech
investments that I think aresuper interesting.
Again, leveraging AI,particularly in the banquets and
group space, and somefascinating work that's being
done there work that's beingdone there.
You know, the carriers airlinesthemselves, I think are
emerging to become sort of moreengaged in the broader story of

(29:50):
travel.
They always have been, but fora long time they've thought of
themselves really as theselogistics businesses, and I
think they're beginning to thinkof themselves now truly as
travel companies, and that'ssort of changing the way they
think about technology.
So we're, you know, we'redeeply engaged with most of the
major carriers.
So, yeah, it's hard pressed tofind any part of travel that
we're not interested in, that'sfor sure.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
No, that's exciting to all of our listeners, I'm
sure, because I think that'swhere if you're innovating
within the travel space and alot of people come outside the
travel industry I'm sure you'veseen this as well.
Obviously, you think thefounders of Airbnb.
There's so many great examplesof people who have decided to
enter travel because it's amassive market, as you pointed
out, second largest globally,very fragmented, as you've

(30:33):
highlighted.
So there's all these challengesthat the incumbents are trying
to figure out and someone elsecomes in with a fresh, new idea
to apply to travel and all of asudden they crack the code.
And so you mentioned a numberof valuable insights there about
areas you're focused on socialcommerce, big being a big one at
hotel, I'm sure obviouslyyou're familiar with conrad and
what they're doing.
Very interestingly, he was onour show and did this amazing
episode was one of the mostpopular ever called.
Social is the new seo uh.

(30:55):
Travis pitman and the team attour radar made it mandatory
listening for their team andthey have transformed their
business the last year forexactly the reason you just
described is that their searchtraffic fell by% and they had to
find a way to regrow thatbusiness.
Now they have a $1 million fundfor travel creators and their
social first strategy.
We're going to do an episode onseason six just about how they
literally applied the insightsfrom another episode and it's

(31:17):
transformed their business.
And this is where great ideascan be transplanted into another
area and can grow and besuccessful.
We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2 (33:22):
And now back to the show, one of the things I wanted
just to go back to and I wantto go forward then on 2026, ai
and all the areas you're lookingat, but just in terms of Thayer
, ventures and your role in theinvestment cycle for startups,
I'd love to cover kind of thatfundamental question that you
get all the time, so that youcan maybe even refer back to
this podcast and say actuallyDan asked me about that and you

(33:43):
can go and listen to.
When it comes to reaching outto Thayer and yourself and what
you're looking for with newstartups, and given that you do
make yourself accessible andpeople are coming up to you all
the time, I'd love to know whatare some of the things that
you're looking for.
You mentioned the entrepreneur.
That's obviously critical.
So obviously the team, the idea,but tell us a little bit about
what you and the team look forand what's meaningful to you.

(34:06):
Is it that pitch deck?
Is it and getting initialmeeting?
Is it having traction in themarketplace beyond just truly
having a proof of concept thatyou know can scale?
What are some of the thingsthat you're looking for that
many of our listeners can say,okay, I'm not ready yet, but I
will be when I want to actuallyget in front of you.
So tell us some of thosesignals.
That would be really helpful,I'm sure, for our listeners.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, so important.
And look, one of the things Iwill say is that and I cannot
overemphasize this for all ofyou entrepreneurs out there cold
calls and cold emails do notwork.
We get way too much volume inmessaging through LinkedIn.

(34:48):
Doesn't work.
You can see, from all of ourLinkedIn profiles, from our
portfolio companies that are onour websites, all of the people
that we know and we work with, Iam quite sure that if you work
a little bit harder, you canfind a way to get a direct
introduction.
And so when someone I knowespecially if it's someone that

(35:08):
I really care about and workwith reaches out to me and says,
hey, I'm working with this or Imet this young company, I'm
really impressed.
Would you like an intro andwould you take a call?
I almost always, I couldprobably say always say yes,
Right, Because this is somebodywhose judgment I respect.

(35:29):
You've gotten to somehow gottento them and they've made the
intro.
That's a call that we take thecold calls.
I mean, that's just one in ahundred might say enough that
you know for some reason.
I say, sure, why not, let'stake a call, so that I'm going
to start there.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
That's great, that's great.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
And in this day and age and I tell you what there's
also a little bit of a bias.
It's sort of, if you haven'tfigured out how to get an intro,
to me that's kind of a red flag, because entrepreneurs need to
be, you need to be wily, youneed to be creative, you need to
move the ball down the field,you need to know how to, you

(36:06):
know make things happen.
And so I know that if youworked a little bit harder, you
could find a way to get anintroduction.
So, anyway, I am just tellingeverybody and that's true for
all investors, I would say it'sa little bit of a first test
Find a way in, anyway.
So, look, I think that thereare an important set of sort of

(36:32):
just absolute gotta haves forany sort of startup, and it has
nothing to do with technology,right, First of all, you have to
understand the market thatyou're working in.
Right, and so you know, we alltalk about the total addressable
market.
But if you come to the tableand say, oh, you know, I'm
working in the restaurant space,my TAM is a million restaurants

(36:54):
and you know, $800 billion attop line, that's just
insufficient.
It's like, well, where are youworking in the restaurant space,
right?
Specifically, are you fullservice restaurants?
Are you working with QSR?
What's the playbook?
Having a very clearunderstanding of your
addressable market, its dynamics, how it's shaped, how it works

(37:19):
very important, and it needs tobe big enough.
The problem with really nichemarkets yes, you can build a
great lifestyle business there,but you probably can't build a
venture-backed business in avery niche market.
There's just not enough room toabsorb the capital.
So market and theentrepreneur's ability to
articulate some detail aboutthat market is first and
foremost.

(37:40):
The second component is not theidea for the idea's sake, but
what is the problem that's beingsolved.
So a lot of times you know I'llfind entrepreneurs will very
much highlight sort of howsomething is done today and why
that's causing pain, either forthe consumer or if it's trading
partners and the value chainthat you can really articulate

(38:00):
the cost.
This is a problem and then thesolution is typically the answer
.
That's your product.
That's when you're in thebusiness of saying this is what
I'm doing, and the third part ofthat sort of overall narrative
is the competitive landscape.
So who else is doing similarthings, how noisy is it?
And that becomes the body ofthe narrative of why you're

(38:21):
starting a business.
But it's all those piecestogether the unsolved pain that
I see my novel defendablesolution, and then the nature of
the chessboard, which iscompetition, and how I think
that's going to play out overthe years to come, and why I'm
in a good position to win right.
That is your elevator pitch.

(38:41):
The next, though, majorcomponent is this integration of
unit economics and go-to-market, and this is where I have found
entrepreneurs typically come upshort is that they haven't
thought through, okay, once Ibreak through and I get a
minimum viable product out thereand I've made a bunch of
founder-led sales based on thenature of my market who I'm

(39:06):
selling to the unit economics ofwhat I'm selling.
Here is how I'm going to builda go-to-market engine.
You know, is it a businessdevelopment reps making outbound
calls, generating demos for youknow, account executives who do
online sales and I hope toclose 20% of the sales that they
make at this price?

(39:26):
And so here's my projected costto acquire a customer versus
lifetime value price.
And so here's my projected costto acquire a customer versus
lifetime value.
In there is sort of thePachinko machine of what I'm
going to do.
You know, if it's a $250,000average annual contract value.
Well, that might be a directsales force, you know, is it a
channel partnerships in thego-to-market with sort of a

(39:47):
service layer built across.
But that engine ultimatelybecomes the thing that will
generate the next round offinancing.
And my problem is I don't wantto put capital into a business
that I can't somehow see howthey're going to raise the next
round of financing, becausethat's a really important part
of the risk profile from myperspective.

(40:08):
So having some sort of clarityon go-to-market and unit
economics is really powerful.
And even for like an absolutebrand new, you know seed stage
startup, you can at least have aforecast of how you might do
that as you grow up, and that'svery useful and sends a strong

(40:30):
signal to the investor that youcare about that.
Talent obviously matters a ton.
But look, I invested in Francis, the CEO and founder of Sonder
in the Series A.
This was his very first job.
He had never done anythingbefore.
He invented the concept when hewas in college.
So you know, it's not abouthaving a world-class resume

(40:53):
yourself.
It's about having anunderstanding of the kind of
talent you're going to need tobring to the party in order to
build a great business andFrancis knew that and then he
executed upon that.
He did it actually quitebrilliantly.
So you know those things allcome together.
And then the last thing I wouldsay for entrepreneurs and I say

(41:15):
this every time when I, you know, talk at colleges to you know,
classes in entrepreneurshipeverybody should have a slide in
their presentation calledprogress, and you always want to
talk about the progress you'vemade over the last 90 days and
the progress you intend to makeover the next 90 or six months.

(41:35):
Whatever, it doesn't matter somuch.
But it's about progress for tworeasons.
First of all, it's superinteresting to see how an
entrepreneur is.
You know, how are they hustlingand moving and making progress
and moving the ball down thefield, because in early stage
companies, progress is prettyimportant.
But it's also an opportunity foryou, as the entrepreneur, to

(41:56):
say at the end of a conversationdo you mind if I keep you
updated on my progress?
And any investor who says yeah,actually I do mind, please
don't update me.
You don't ever want to talk tothat person again.
Anyway, I'm serious.
Every investor will say yes.
And so you say great, and youwrite down their email address

(42:17):
and you start every again month,90 days, whatever, sending out
an email saying, hey everybody,here's my update and progress.
And it's a great way to stayconnected because while an
investor might not be readytoday, they might be in six
months or a year or the nextround.
And having spent the time tobuild that relationship then

(42:38):
makes it much easier to hit theground running when the time is
right.
But yeah, so those components Ithink are all the sort of
fundamental and you know, look,if you're starting a company,
you kind of want to map thoseout anyway, because the first
person you've got to convince toinvest in your business is you,
and you better be right,because there is nothing worse

(43:02):
than starting a zombie business.
What's a zombie business?
It's the one where you know youraise a bunch of friends and
family money, you leverage outyour credit cards and then you
find yourself in a business thatjust muddles along for 15 years
and then ultimately maybe yousell it and return a portion of
everybody's capital, but for 15years you've been woefully

(43:23):
underpaid and you've taken thesweet spot of your professional
life and lost it to this walkingdead zombie company spot of
your professional life and lostit to this walking dead zombie
company that is.
That's the misery ofentrepreneurship is getting
stuck there.
Failure is not the problem.
Failing fast is critical.
I've taped up the boxes on morethan one of my startups.

(43:43):
They're not all home runs.
And you know, you learn so muchand then you move on and
iterate.
It's about taking at bats.
You get up, you dust yourselfoff and you swing again.
And you know, you learn so muchand then you move on and
iterate.
It's about taking at bats.
You get up, you dust yourselfoff and you swing again.
And when you raise money fromyour investors, everybody
involved should understand that.
That's the playbook.
If it doesn't work out, shuther down, tape up the boxes, get

(44:03):
the wind up documents toeverybody and then move on and
do it again.
And so you know it's a veryimportant part of the life of
entrepreneurship, trust me.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Amazing and excellent advice and I'm glad you hit all
of those points, because I'msure a lot of people are now
re-looking at their pitch decksand looking at their product,
looking at their teams andsaying we're not ready, and
these are some of the watchoutswe need to be mindful of.
The other thing I wanted to askyou about, chris you highlight,
obviously, francis perfectexample of a hardworking
entrepreneur hustling out thererenting apartments in Montreal

(44:34):
to students and was like thereis a bigger business here, and
you guys were onto that earlier.
So Sondra is a great example ofexactly what you described.
I was asking you about yourinvestment philosophy, having
worked now the last few yearswith a number of different
startups, helping them withfunding and some that have gone
on to be successful and othersthat have stalled out and having

(44:57):
that visibility.
I'll use one example Dharma,with Conviviality Ventures.
Conviviality Ventures, which isa venture arm of Pernod Ricard.
Obviously, you know all thesepeople, all these players, but
one of the things obviouslyunderstanding when you're trying
to raise around whether it behigh net worth individuals or
venture capital or privateequity like where can you get
the access to capital and how doyou raise around?
This is one of the things Ithink.

(45:18):
Also, a lot of earlyentrepreneurs are just not
familiar with trying to manageall of those stakeholders,
because it's one thing tounderstand, so conviviality is
investment philosophy, which isconviviality, so it has to fit
into their portfolio thatmatches their brand DNA.
They've invested in companieslike Hipcamp, so they're very
active in the travel space, butthey don't lead, they follow.
So then this is another.

(45:39):
So now you need someone who'sgoing to lead the round, and you
mentioned about how you'restrategic investors and you
might have someone that writes abigger ticket, but they want to
know that you're on the bill aswell, the fair's on board.
So tell us a little bit abouthow best for entrepreneurs to
align the stars with a round,especially if they've done that
early seed family and friends.
Now they're actually talking toVC, because the other thing I

(46:00):
see I'll just mention one lastthing, and obviously you're the
expert here, so please add tothis but VCs are looking for 10X
, 100x, 1,000x return.
Private equity might be lookingfor two X or three X, and I've
heard private equity in meetingswho said I, we just don't want
to lose our money, like we don'tmind doubling over five years,
we just want to make sure it's asure thing, so it's a much more

(46:23):
conservative portfolio, whereasyou know VCs and you you know
this, um, you know JasonCalacanis like it's one out of
39 that might hit, so you needto have you know.
So tell us a little bit aboutraising around and aligning
different stakeholders and howyou view that at Thayer.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, it's so hard.
I mean, raising money is justone of the most difficult.
Raising institutional money.
And first of all, like I thinkit's so important, again in sort

(46:58):
of the spirit of thinking ofentrepreneurship broadly, not
every business needs to beventure backed.
There is nothing wrong withbuilding a lifestyle business
that you grow and, after workingon it for you know, 15, 25
years, you sell it to somebodyfor 30 million bucks.
That's not a venture outcomethat anybody's going to care
about.
But if you own a hundredpercent of the equity and you
build that business yourself,that's a life-changing outcome,

(47:19):
right?
So there's nothing wrong withthat.
Institutional money is adifferent path and you want to
go down that path.
If you're trying to growsomething big, that's going to
require, you know, subsequentrounds of financing to get there
.
So that profile of a businessis you know it's tough You're

(47:44):
out there primarily looking fora lead investor.
A lead investor is the one thatissues you a proposal, what we
call a term sheet, that lays outhere's how much, here's how big
the round needs to be.
Let's say it's a $3 millionround, a seed, or let's just
call it a series A to keepeverything simple.
So a $5 million series A andI'm gonna put in $3 million as
the lead investor and I'mpricing it at a $30 million
pre-money value.

(48:04):
All the terms were in that termsheet.
So that means that you've gotto raise an additional 2 million
bucks from other people aroundthe table, turns out, depending
on who your lead is.
It's pretty easy to find thepeople who want to follow those
lead investors.
You know, if a Sequoia writes aterm sheet that has room left
in the round, it won't take youbut the rest of the day to get

(48:27):
that raise.
Everybody wants to put theirmoney next to those guys.
So you know, selecting, findingand selecting a great lead
investor is super important.
It makes things much, mucheasier to fill out the rest of
the round.
You want to certainly takemeetings with folks who are not
going to lead but would like tofill out the round, but that's

(48:48):
not.
That shouldn't be the focus ofyour energy.
The focus should be on findingthat lead investor.
And again, you want to leverageyour network, your advisors,
your angel investors, anybodyyou can, to make introductions
and advocate for you at thoseventure firms to get you a foot
in the door.
You just cannot send a coldemail to Excel and expect a

(49:12):
return and a real shot on goalof getting them as a lead.
Now in travel sometimes youknow we've co-led with a bunch
of folks before.
Where it's let's say it's around that's too big for us to
be a solo lead because of ourcheck size.
But we've co-led with otherinvestors who are newer to
travel and they reallyappreciate partnering up because

(49:34):
of our understanding of traveland that can be helpful.
And it can be helpful to getstrategics committed to a round
even though they're not leading,because then that sort of
entices lead investors to seewhere the rest of the capital is
going to come from and whythat's important.

(50:13):
But it's very, very challengingto raise money.
It always has been and italways will be.
And then there are just someentrepreneurs that after they
get that first financing you youknow as a CEO you're networking
with folks but you have to besmart about who are you talking
to.
You know somebody is comingforward and trying to preempt
the round.
That's a high quality outcomebecause it is such a distraction

(50:34):
to raise a round.
It can take nine months ofeffort to go out and find a lead
investor.
It just dobbles up a CEO'sattention.
So it's tough, very, very tough.
So it's tough, very, very tough.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I appreciate sharing those insights because that's
certainly what I have seen frommy experience, and I know a lot
of entrepreneurs.
This is resonating with thembecause these are the things
they didn't expect at thebeginning and that is one of the
real important points you justcalled out is that literally,
you almost have to make thedecision to step out of the
business to focus on fundraisingand you see, they designated
one of their executives to doexactly that.

(51:09):
Someone runs the business andsomeone goes out and tries to
raise fund and they've got thatwindow of time by which to do
that between getting between thedifferent stages and so clearly
, people can do more research ontheir own.
Because I don't want to wasteyour valuable time in explaining
the entire cycle and I'd loveto spend our time now talking
about some of the big trends.
You've already mentioned themand we started to get into one
that I really want to spend abit of time on with you, which

(51:31):
is AI.
And so when you think aboutinvestment in 2026, and that's
the theme, of course, of ourdiscussion is investing in
travel in 2026.
And AI has to be one of themost important topics to talk
about and just to share with you.
I know from being active in thisspace that I hear a wide range
of opinions, and I'm sure you doas well, because obviously we

(51:53):
both lived through the dot-comera and there's an element of
what's happening now wherepeople are sticking AI on
everything like they stuckdot-com on everything.
Then you go to every conferenceand every business that used to
just be a regular business isnow an AI business.
So it's not just the startups,it's like the established
players.
They're being asked by theirinvestors how they're becoming
more efficient, more effective,how they're scaling their

(52:14):
businesses.
So it's not just about thestartups, it's as much as
important for the incumbents ofBookingcom, glenn Fogle.
You see how much he talks aboutAI.
You see people like HotelPlanner planning to go public
and highlighting that theyhandle 10,000 calls a day by AI.
So it's real at the same time.
This is slightly different thanthe dot-com era.
It's real at the same time asthere also is a lot of hype.

(52:37):
So it's hard to get that signalthrough the noise.
And I would just love to getyour perspective on where you
think we are in the investmentcycle with AI in travel and
specifically what you're lookingfor, because I know a number of
businesses feel like they needto come and pitch as if they're
an AI business and they mayactually not be and so they're
now being encouraged to likechange and kind of pivot.

(52:59):
And so tell us a little bitabout how you say AI and travel
today and your view on investingin this technology.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, huge topic.
And again, I want to firststart with reiterating what I
said earlier.
It starts with the problem thatyou're solving, and if AI, if
you're using it as a tool, as animportant component of solving
a core business problem orsomehow fitting into the value
chain and making a difference,then it's just sort of hype and

(53:34):
that's just not going to goanywhere.
So I think that there's sort ofthree things that I'm thinking
about when I think about AI.
First of all is how is thetechnology and the tool being
used by good startups?
And there's so many obviousplaces where costs are being
managed, whether it's inengineering, customer service

(53:54):
and support, marketing andcontent generation.
There's a lot of sort of justwithin the nuts and bolts of
building a business.
Over time, it's becoming muchmore capital efficient to build
a building, build a company toscale now because of the just
great tools of generative AI,and any entrepreneur should be

(54:15):
thinking about that because thatmakes a huge difference in
terms of the capital requirementto build your business.
The second component is thenthinking about okay, if you're
building products, you knowAI-based products to attack, you
know that are sort of more B2Bin nature and you're looking to
sell them, you know, to largetravel suppliers or incumbents

(54:36):
or others.
I mean, that's an area that isinteresting but, frankly, I
think is going to be slower todevelop than people think.
It's just, you know, this iswhere you know we weren't wrong
back in the dot-com day.
Right, the Internet was goingto change the world.
It just didn't happen in twoyears, it happened in 25.

(54:58):
So the same thing is going tohappen, in my view, in the role
of AI as a core technology.
Of large enterprise.
It will change the way theywork in time.
Of large enterprise.
It will change the way theywork in time.
So you know, there are peopledoing some interesting things in
that area and I'm very mindfulof you know how valuable those

(55:20):
companies may be, but I stillthink that that is going to look
a little bit more like coreenterprise software.
It's just going to take time.
Now where we are particularlyexcited is how consumer behavior
in this sort of the marketingand merchandising and selling of
travel is changing.

(55:41):
You know we have spent the last25 years sort of perfecting
this world of distributionaround.
You know keywords and indexingand as a result, we had major
power players that cornered themarket Google, expedia, booking
and so forth, right, and theoligopoly just sort of held

(56:03):
power and, frankly, it took allthe air out of the room for
anybody who wanted to try to dosomething interesting in
consumer travel, because youjust couldn't compete with the
amount of spend happening at thetop of the travel funnel.
We fundamentally seeing thatnarrative changing now as
consumers are beginning to usenot just beginning they're there

(56:24):
now using generative AI as partof their discovery experience.
They've moved from sort of thisindexing search keyword list of
different places that they canclick through and intermediaries
that take them to more liststhat they can click through, to
this highly contextualized,conversational form of search

(56:46):
and engagement that oftendoesn't even result in a
click-through.
It results in a statement ofhere's what you should do, right
, and it may have threerecommendations, not three pages
of recommendations, and sothat's essential for travel
suppliers because they got tosomehow be in that game.
And what does that mean?
That means that they have tohave highly cleansed, reliable

(57:10):
data about where they sit, whatthey're adjacent to, what you
can do from you know it's thedemands on the quality of their
data now, and the you know thequantity as well of their data
is so extreme, and what that'sdoing is it's exposing all of

(57:32):
the technical debt that travelsuppliers in particular are
sitting on and how screwed uptheir data is.
I cannot overstate how awful itis out there in reality in
terms of data quality, and soit's the companies that are
beginning to address that messto enable this sort of new

(57:54):
emerging world of Gen AI, searchand optimizing it for supply
that are winning.
Bonafide is one of ourportfolio companies data
orchestration for supply.
They're doing a bunch of reallyinteresting work.
Nuiti, which is another you know, api as a services platform
living in hospitality, again fordistribution B2B distribution
very, very important andpowerful, you know, meets highly

(58:16):
fragmented retailing andmerchandising of travel across
the world.
It's that you know that multi,multi-trillion dollar funnel is

(58:40):
in play and the battle lines arehuge and the amount of money at
stake is absolutely fundamental.
And so when we see those areasof just radical disruption where
the value of winning and theconsequence of losing are so
high, that's where you got tofind, shine the spotlight and

(59:02):
watch, because now I don't knowwhat the playbook is, I don't
know what the answer is there,but I know that the problem is
massive and the disruption isprofound and I trust that there
will be incredibly creativeentrepreneurs who will figure
stuff out, get very rapidevidence that it's working, and
I want to be there.

(59:23):
That's when I want to be thereso that I can be a part of those
stories and back them up.
It was recently, you know,we're talking to this incredibly
interesting company out ofIceland called Rexby.
Again, sort of combining,taking a whole new look at
social commerce and combiningelements of AI to sort of you

(59:43):
know, affect and create planningand distribution tools that I
think are really fresh andthere's.
You know, it's not the kind ofstory that I could have sat back
and articulated to you, right,and said, oh, I'm looking for a
Rexy.
It took meeting these guys andhearing how they're solving the

(01:00:05):
problem, what they're seeing,why, how it's working, the scale
of it that has me thinking,okay, that's interesting.
I don't know if it's going towork.
Of it, that has me thinking,okay, that's interesting, I
don't know if it's going to work, I don't know how big it could
be.
But you know, when you see somesuper creative, wily
entrepreneurs with some gravitasplaying in a big space that's
undergoing that kind of change,that's exciting.
So you know, I mean I guessthat would be an area where I

(01:00:29):
particularly am interested in isall things sort of related to
just distribution, selling,merchandising and so forth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Well, it's certainly spot on with everything that
I've seen and heard, especiallywhen other colleagues and
investors focus on the plumbingof travel, and you highlighted
one really important aspect,which is APIs.
I mean, this is one area youknow it's not the sexiest
business to be in, but thereality is a lot of these
partners have difficultyintegrating with each other.
Do you write to my API or do Iwrite to your API?
How do we connect with eachother?
And you're you know, you've gottechnical debt and you've got a

(01:00:59):
product roadmap that is 12months long and a partner wants
to work with you and it's likewe'll see you in two years.
And all of a sudden, if AIsolution that can do that.
And to back to your point, Ithink I just wanted to
underscore exactly what you saidthere, chris, which was even
with AI, it still goes back towhat problem are you solving?
And then now you've got thisnew technology that can really

(01:01:19):
empower to solve thesechallenges.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, and the plumbing.
The plumbing is so.
I mean it's like think aboutthe you know the classic analogy
of the gold rush, right, you,if you were, you'd probably want
to be an investor in Levi, notin the gold.
Yeah, the shovels and the picksand the axes and the jeans,
right, it's the essentialplumbing of what's happening are

(01:01:42):
the durable businesses and theones that are essentially needed
now.
And what also is super exciting, in my view, is that travel has
undergone I mean it has beensuch a dramatic change
Pre-pandemic.
It's really hard to get bigtravel companies to experiment.
It was hard.

(01:02:03):
I mean, there was some Muse wasborn pre-pandemic.
You know, a lot of guys weredoing great work and were, you
know, making progress, but itwas really hard.
The pandemic hit, fundamentallychanged everything about travel.
Nobody saw that coming and youknow, ceos woke up the next day
and said, holy shit, we'relacking agility, we don't have

(01:02:23):
flexibility.
This is a problem, how do wefix that?
And finally, people were like,how about that thing we've been
talking about for a decadecalled technology?
And they're like, right, okay,let's get to work on that.
So now, all of a sudden, youknow there was this sort of
change in attitude, coming outof the pandemic that technology
was, you know, a gotta have, nota nice to have.

(01:02:43):
And then all of a sudden, wehit this next cycle of rates
going up and costs going haywire, and then the birth of AI.
All of these things havehappened in succession and it's
you know, I have not seen thisindustry more engaged in
experimentation, testing, trial.

(01:03:03):
Now, all of a sudden, theentrepreneur is sitting sort of
atop the hierarchy.
You know, ideation is whatpeople want.
The biggest companies in theworld want to know what's going
on in startup land and who'sdoing interesting and new stuff.
And that is a game changer,because if people are
experimenting, there will bebreakthroughs.

(01:03:26):
And when there's breakthroughs,there are huge billion dollar
companies being built.
And you know, again, I are hugebillion-dollar companies being
built.
And you know, again, I want tobe around the hoop, because
that's what's happening today.
It's a very, very exciting time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
I've never seen a more dynamic and exciting time
to be a travel tech entrepreneurthan today.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
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Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Visit Civitatiscom for more details and now back to
the show In terms of theoutlook from your vantage point
for 2026, you've obviouslytalked about AI, You've talked
about a number of the verticalsyou're interested in.
You mentioned some of thegeopolitical factors and
obviously consumer behavior ischanging.
So you've got all of thesedynamic fluctuations that are

(01:06:17):
happening and there's somepeople that are thinking, oh,
VCs have pulled back.
You're seeing some of theheadlines that.
What is your overall view?
It sounds to me like you'requite optimistic about 2026, but
you have to be a savvierinvestor than ever would be one
of my takeaways.
But how would you kind ofdefine investing and travel in
2026?
What was your overall outlook?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Absolutely the best time in history.
One of the things I like isthat it is hard to raise money,
so that knocks out a lot of theaccidental tourists of
entrepreneurship.
And it's just, you know, thosewho bring real grit and
commitment to the table and haveinsights and passion, they will
find a way.
It also, you know, you don'tneed to raise five million bucks

(01:07:00):
to get started With the toolstoday that are out there.
I mean it's becoming way morecapital efficient.
So, you know, I think that themacro industrial logic in travel
is peaking.
It's never been better forentrepreneurs.
I think the capital markets aretough and they will be.
That's a good thing for realentrepreneurs because it means

(01:07:22):
less noise and, by the way,there's no worse competitor than
noise.
That's the worst one.
You don't want that.
You want quality people outthere doing great work.
So I think it's you know, foran entrepreneur it's a great
time, but it's you know you gotto be serious about it because
it's not going to be easy.
It's not a layup time For aninvestor, I mean.

(01:07:45):
I think it's a small fundinvestor.
It's ideal.
I don't know if I'd want to besitting on a billion-dollar fund
for startups, because I don'tthink startups are going to be
consuming $30, $40 million ofcapital in the era of AI.
They're going to consume a lotless the big funds to actually

(01:08:08):
run their businesses, where Ithink smaller, more nimble funds
that are deeply sector-focusedand bring strategy and context
to the table.
I think we're in a position tothrive, and we're already seeing
it.
Look, we're seeing lots ofdynamic interest from outside of
travel and what's happening intravel.
This is one of the biggeste-commerce categories in the
world.
We're seeing mid-market privateequity firms wanting to buy

(01:08:31):
companies and turn them intoplatforms, and so there's more
liquidity coming into our spacethan ever before.
It's all good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
That is the most optimistic outlook and I'm
thrilled to hear that I'm sureour listeners are as well and a
perfect way to bring ourconversation to a close.
I do have a couple ofrapid-fire questions just to ask
you, chris, and then we'll signoff.
But when you look back now,what would be a startup that you
wish you backed, that youdidn't at the time?
What's the one that got away?

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
oh, there's so many.
I, I, I have this faintrecollection of taking a phone
call with a very early stagecompany years and years and
years ago.
It was on my cell phone andnicest guy in the world and you

(01:09:20):
know, described his idea and Ithought, yeah, we don't do
consumer and you know, good luck, and it was get your guide.
Wish I had taken a little bitmore time and thought that went
through, because that would havebeen, that was a great time.
But there are many.
There are so many greatcompanies that we've missed.

(01:09:41):
But that comes with it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
In terms of your inspiration and where you get it
from.
Obviously, I appreciate youlistening to this podcast, but
in terms of other sources ofinspiration books, podcasts,
websites, articles where do youreach out for your inspiration
and what else would you suggestfor our audience to inspire them
?

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Yeah, and I mean in addition to just sort of all of
the usual suspects.
I mean yeah, and I mean inaddition to just sort of all of
the usual suspects.
I mean so much of it just comesfrom, you know, attending
conferences and spending timewith leaders in travel, right,
those the, you know, some of my,my friends now, because of you
know, I'm at that time of mycareer where my friends are
running these companies, right,we're all peers and so it's

(01:10:30):
spending time with them and sortof really listening to the
things that they're dealing with, the challenges they have.
I find it's so important tosort of, you know, understand
what's going on in the realworld.
But, you know, I obviously readall the stuff that everyone
else reads, and there's a lot ofgreat content out there, but
frankly, it's relationships andthe insights of others.

(01:10:51):
I think that sort of bring themost color.
So it's always having your earswide open and engaging.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
And you are at all the conferences, at the dinners.
It's you're there, you'represent.
When I saw you at Focus rightrecently, I was like plug and
play.
I was like no Focus writes mypriority.
You know how to prioritize yourtime, your time.
I know you're traveling for thenext few months, so I got one
last question for you, because Ican't thank you enough for
making time for this.
But your vision for Thayer aswe close out, given that you are

(01:11:20):
at the top of your game andyou've probably helped a lot of
other people sharpen their swordfrom this conversation what is
your vision for Thayer in thenext five years?
Where do you want to see thiscompany in?

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
2030?
Yeah, so I have two phenomenalpartners, tyler Carrico and Mike

(01:11:52):
Scott.
Young guys, early 30s, hugelyambitious.
We're doing a lot more inaddition to sort of the core
Thayer Ventures investing work.
We're also doing specialpurpose projects.
You know we're running oursecond SPAC right now.
We've done some large SPVs andlater stage deals.
I think we see ourselves justcontinuing to expand across
different asset classes, butalways focusing on this industry
of travel because it's justit's so big, it's so dynamic and
there's so much to do.
But I see, you know, hopefullyover the next five years, there

(01:12:15):
just being a platform that has,you know, more and more
solutions for entrepreneurs andcompanies across the spectrum,
think there's a lot for us to do.
There's a lot more capital nowthat's interested in travel than
ever before and hopefully we'rethe place that that capital
wants to park itself while we goto work.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
That's so exciting and I know there's a lot of
investors that listen to ourshow and those limited partners
out there that are looking toinvest.
I know you've partnered withDrive Ventures, mike and the
team, and anyway, you're goingfrom strength to strength.
There's so many exciting thingshappening.
Thank you, chris, for makingthe time for this.
I look forward to seeing you inperson in the near future.
I'll make sure everyone knowswhere to find more about Thayer
Ventures and follow up with youand the team, but thank you

(01:12:57):
again so much for this andeverything you're doing for the
industry.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I enjoyed our conversation.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Thanks again for joining us on this opening
episode of Season 6 of TravelTrends.
I hope you enjoyed theconversation today with Chris
Hemeter, the managing directorof Thayer Ventures.
I thought it was the perfectway to kick off the captains of
industry theme.
He certainly, as you heard frommy conversation, is the epitome
of a captain of industry andhad so much valuable advice to
share with startups and anyonein the travel industry that

(01:13:26):
wants to understand how the VC,the venture capital market,
works, given their incrediblysuccessful track record.
So thank you again, chris, forjoining the podcast and for more
information, check outthayerventurescom.
I also connected with one ofChris's colleagues, mike Scott.
He talked about the nextgeneration of.
Mike Scott is one of thoseindividuals and they invested in

(01:13:47):
a company called Nuite and it'sa really impressive company
that has just raised nearly $50million to scale.
It's focused very much onleveraging AI to build out APIs
the kind of backend which youheard Chris talk about as well
and they are going to bepresenting at our AI summit at
the end of October.
October 28th and 29th is theconference.

(01:14:07):
You can find out moreinformation at
TravelTrendsPodcastcom.
They're going to be presentingon the 28th, so I definitely
encourage you to check them out.
But thanks again to Chris, toMike and the entire team at
Thayer Ventures Cara as well,who's been on our podcast before
, and our next series is goingto be a continuation from one of
our most popular deep divesthat we've ever done on Travel

(01:14:29):
Trends, which was in-destinationexperiences.
We had two amazing guests toclose out season five.
We had Joe Pine and JakeHalpert Joe Pine, the author,
and Jake Halpert from theTransformational Travel
Institute, and they had such animpressive story to tell that
we're going to bring them backat the end of season six.
But it also inspired us, withour partner Pano Ricard, to

(01:14:50):
revisit that theme At the end ofseason six.
But it also inspired us, withour partner, pano Ricard, to
revisit that theme at the end ofsummer, if you're in the
Northern hemisphere, andSeptember going into October, as
people are still traveling inthe shoulder season.
We wanted to continue with thein-destination experiences.
So next week you're gonna hearfrom the founder of Meow Wolf,
vince Katalubic, and he is oneof the most inspirational people
I've ever seen on stage.

(01:15:10):
And if you haven't heard aboutmeow wolf, you need to know
about this company becauseliterally they're the next
disney in the making.
They'll likely be acquired bydisney, but I hope that they
remain independent for as longas possible, given their
creative inspiration and thevenues that they are creating in
many american cities andhopefully around the world.
So you can learn a bit moreabout meow wolf before, but, but

(01:15:30):
tune in for that conversationnext week.
And then we're also going tohave Laurel, who is the VP of
marketing at Viator.
She's very much a captain ofindustry, so each of these
themes we're going to havewithin that deep dive, the
captains of industry, and Laurelis exactly that.
If you look at the results ofViator, she's been one of those
key people that has led to thatcontinued success.
And then we're going to haveshown from Geotourist, so a

(01:15:53):
great three-part series comingup on in-destination experiences
.
So make sure you're subscribedon the streaming platform of
your choice and don't forget wedo post clips and highlights
from all of our episodes.
So if you want to see more fromChris Hemeter, be sure to check
out YouTube, linkedin andInstagram.
Have a good rest of the week.
Until next time, safe travels.

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