Leading the Future of Educational Travel & More with EF World Journeys

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
We're a part of people's stories.
We're a part of their lifemoments.
We're helping people celebratemilestones or get through a
difficult time, and uh andtravel is so enriching and
meaningful and impactful.
So for me, it's it's allmission.

SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Travel Trends.
This is your host, DanChristian, and we're continuing
our Captains of Industry seasonsix series today by speaking to
Heidi Durfingler, who is the CEOof EF World Journeys USA.
Last week we spoke to Tao Tao,the co-founder of Get Your
Guide, and we wanted to keep upthe Captains of Industry theme

(00:42):
before we jump into our nextdeep dive, which will be into
emerging tour operators broughtto us by our partners over at
Tourseta.
Now, Heidi is actually here inChile, Patagonia, with me at the
ATTA conference, but I recordedthis interview with her after we
had a chance to meet at theconference in Denver at the

(01:03):
Elevate ATTA conference, andboth of which we produced event
spotlights.
And I'm in the process ofrecording one right now at the
event.
And I have just finished one ofthe most extraordinary trips
I've ever had the privilege totake.
I cycled in the most beautifulregion of Patagonia with this
incredible company called CicloAustral.

(01:24):
So it's Ciclo Austral Chile.
You can find them on Instagram,you can find them with that name
on their website, with the dotcom.
And I had the privilege to meetthis extraordinary group of
people and this amazing couple,Fernando and Claudia, who took
us on this epic five-day tour.
And I just wanted to highlightthis because this is what

(01:45):
connects us as travelers and asa global community that is
really passionate about thisindustry.
So I'm thrilled to be here.
I'm looking forward tomoderating a session tomorrow.
And we are going to be releasinga special ATTA spotlight episode
from our time here in Chile.
So I'll be interviewing a numberof amazing guests over the next
few days and releasing thatepisode in the next couple of

(02:06):
weeks.
So definitely be on the lookoutfor that.
And of course, we have our AIsummit coming up in a couple of
weeks.
So make sure that you areregistered to join us for two
extraordinary days on October28th and 29th.
And don't forget, we do postclips and highlights from all of
our podcast episodes on oursocial channels at Travel Trends
Podcast on LinkedIn, Instagram,and YouTube.

(02:29):
Now, I'm so excited to bringthis Captain of Industry
conversation to you since thekeynote that Heidi gave at
Denver Elevate was absolutelyextraordinary.
And that's why she's beenbrought back here to be at Chile
as well.
And so I was thrilled toshowcase her skills, ability,
and also bring EF to theforefront since so few people

(02:52):
actually know what a massivetravel company EF is.
And of course, they've launchedtheir new EF adventure brand.
So there's many reasons I wantedto bring Heidi on, and that was
a key one.
And I'm thrilled to introduceyou to her now.
Welcome, Heidi.
Thanks so much for joining us onTravel Trends.

SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
Excited to talk travel with you.

SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
For sure.
And you are a true captain ofindustry.
I saw you give an amazingkeynote presentation in Denver
at the Adventure Travel andTrade Association conference,
which many of our listenersbelong to, so certainly some of
them would have seen you live aswell.
And I've had a good catch-upwith your team, uh, Brian, of
course, and we uh we're verykeen to have you on our podcast
for a number of reasons.
Obviously, EF is a massivetravel company that has a

(03:33):
fascinating background that I'mreally keen for you to be able
to share with all of ourlisteners.
And you have been there for anumber of years that you've seen
the company grow and evolve, andyou are now continuing to be in
the media and a strong presencefor EF as the business continues
to grow and expands into newcategories.
So I think it would probably bebest if you give everyone a

(03:54):
little bit of an understandingof EF, because I'm still amazed
the number of people I mentionedEF and they they don't know
education first, they don't knowmuch about the company.
I'm like, you're you're missingout on one of the biggest travel
stories in uh in the industry.
So give us a little bit ofbackground, EF, and then we'll
talk about your background aswell.

SPEAKER_04 (04:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, the best kept secret,right?
So uh so EF stands for educationfirst.
So we are an internationalcultural exchange, language
learning, travel business.
So everything rotates around theidea of opening the world
through education.
So we have offices and staffmembers around the globe.

(04:31):
So there's over 50,000 teammembers uh in about 500 offices
and schools in 50 countries.
And we do everything fromthere's four main pillars to the
business.
So this includes educationaltravel, which I work with.
Uh we have student exchangeprograms and au pair programs,
we have language schoolsglobally, and then we have uh

(04:54):
education programs.
So, you know, internationalMBAs, international
undergraduate students, thosetypes of programs.
So I work specifically with EFWorld Journeys, which is the
family of brands that caters toadult travelers of all ages.
So from 18 to 80, uh, dependingon what kind of adventure you're
wanting to have.

(05:14):
I work with three differenttravel brands that are part of
the EF World Journeys family.
So that includes EF UltimateBreak, which is for 18 to 35
year olds.
So young adults that are lookingout to have an adventure and
connect with other young people.
Um we have then EF Adventures,which is our product for the
active traveler.

(05:34):
So it's less about an age andmore about a mindset or a
passion of people that arewanting to combine cultural
immersion and seeing the most,you know, iconic sites in the
world, getting off the beatenpath, but that combined with
doing something active.
So hiking, biking, or kayakingor yoga at sunrise.

(05:55):
So that's EF Adventures.
And then the third travel brandthat I work with is EF Go Ahead
Tours.
So EF Go Ahead Tours is foradults of all ages, uh,
typically travelers that are 35plus or families with their high
school age students, uh, couplesor solo travelers.
And it's cultural immersion, uh,lifelong learning is sort of our

(06:20):
mission with EF Go Ahead Toursto help people really learn
about the destinations they'retraveling to.
So as you said, EF, you know,has a big global presence.
We're both global and local inthe destinations that we're
traveling.
Uh and you know, I'm based hereactually in our uh Cambridge,
Massachusetts office.

SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
Yeah, it's amazing.
You have offices around theworld.
You've been around for 60 years.
Obviously, a lot of people got agood information about yourself
and your in that introduction,the fact you've been with a
company more than 20 years.
And I think this is one of thoseYeah, 21 years.
Extraordinary.
And certainly the brand thatyou're leading now is one of the
things I'm very keen to get intoEF Adventures, given my
background at G Adventures, theTravel Corporation, and the fact

(07:02):
you know we had brands that werecompeting with EF a go-ahead
tours, like brands like Kantikiwith the youth audience.
And and one of the things thatamazed me about your business is
that not only is it so massiveand global, but you know, we've
got millions of travelers overthat time.
Um, but the fact you actuallydon't even sell yet through
trade partners, you know, it'sall direct to the consumer,
which is another kind ofstaggering realization that the

(07:24):
business is at this scalewithout that distribution
channel.
So um so tell us a little bitmore about the um EF today.
I guess that's uh you know,given that history and
trajectory.
And the specific thing I'm keento understand is the EF world
journeys and the the fact thatyou have introduced this
adventure option that uh I I hadseen actually um a presentation

(07:46):
at ATTA from uh a friend ofmine, Al Martian, who talked
about EF and adventures.
And I was so excited to see yougoing into this space and the
destinations you serve.
So I guess what propelled youinto this new category?

SPEAKER_04 (08:00):
Yeah, so yeah, so EF World Journeys, the family of
brands I mentioned includes uhthree different three different
businesses that uh cater foradults 18 uh to 80, so all
different age groups.
And uh EF Adventures is thenewest of those three travel
brands.
So uh EF Adventures is for theactive traveler who wants to get

(08:20):
off the beaten path.
They want to hike, bike, uh,kayak, yoga, explore the world
in it in a more active way, butthey also want the best of what
you can see and learn about thedestination that you're
traveling to.
So all of our EF World Journeysprograms, no matter which of the
travel brands, are rooted inlearning.

(08:40):
Uh, that we want to take peopleto help them learn about the
stories behind the places thatyou're visiting, to meet the
local people that live there, totaste the local foods.
And so when we launched um EFAdventures, it was because we
saw this growing interest intravelers to uh really both
connect with people, connectwith nature, uh, and also

(09:03):
wanting to combine their passionfor being active with learning.
And we didn't see anyone elseout there that was doing it
quite in that way.
Um, funny enough, our the EFAdventures, the concept of it,
launched during the pandemic.
You know, so we're in the middleof a global pandemic and we're
thinking about what what newtypes of travel experiences can
we help uh people go out andventure the world when that
moment comes again.

(09:24):
And it, you know, there was a abit of a personal passion as
well.
You know, I myself am a superactive, adventure-based
traveler.
I love to hike and run on theworld's like greatest routes
around the world.
So um and EF is definitely aplace that's filled.
Passion is one of our corevalues at EF, and people really
live and breathe travel, butalso we're a very active culture

(09:48):
who really puts a big emphasison wellness.
Um, and so, you know, team offsites often include some kind of
hike or morning run or walktogether.
Um, and so a few of us werelooking at, you know, what what
our portfolio of offering hadand what were the unique aspects
that um set us apart as EF.

(10:09):
And and one of those, one of theother elements that's unique is
that EF owns a pro cycling team.
So we have both a w uh men's anda women's team that compete in
the Tour de France and the Tourde Femme.
Super proud uh to have those um,you know, such an international
group of men and women that arecycling with us.

(10:30):
But we weren't doing a lotwithin the US market when it
came to our our um cycling team.
And so we thought, well, how dowe sort of bring together this
passion for being active andlearning together with the you
know unique fact that we have acycling team that has unique
expertise?
Um and then we saw a growing,you know, the last piece of this
that was really critical wasthat during the pandemic, you

(10:53):
know, as people were feelingless connected, right?
We were much more isolated.
Um, and there coming out of thepandemic, people were really
looking to connect.
They were wanting to, you know,get back out in the world and
take back the trips that theyhad missed, but they were also
looking to do that in a moremeaningful and purposeful way.
Um, and in a way that helps themconnect with, you know,

(11:13):
community.
There was really a resurgence ofgroup travel, of people wanting
not only just the ease and thesupport and the safety that
comes with it, but the socialconnections that come with
traveling as part of a group,where you're meeting other
people who are interested in,you know, that are like-minded
in the sense that they want tolearn about the world and and in
the case of EF Adventures, youknow, explore the greatest,

(11:35):
greatest, um, most iconic pathsand and get out into nature and
get off the beaten path.
So we saw this rising trend ofthis connection that people
wanted, the sense of communitythat people wanted, and then
this desire to really invest inlifelong learning and their own
well health and well-being.
Um, and so that sparked the ideaof launching EF Adventures.

(11:58):
And it's now been we're almostat one our one-year anniversary
of being live and uh having goneto market last fall.
And we've had our firstdepartures already on the road
with outstanding feedback.
Um people are absolutely lovingthe experience.
Um, and we've kind of seen cometo life this vision of our

(12:20):
tagline, which is travel thatmoves you.
Um, we want people to feel, youknow, moved, of course, in the
movement of what you're of theactivity you're doing, but also,
you know, it's much deeper thanthat.
We want people to feel likethey're um having an opportunity
to reflect and um connect withothers, connect with natures,
and connect with themselves andcome back with new perspectives.

SPEAKER_02 (12:40):
For sure.
No, it's really exciting.
And when I saw the brand for thevery first time, my instant
reaction to it was this is thismeets the moment.
Like this is uh perfectly onpoint because not only is it
meeting customers where they aretoday post-pandemic, but also
the brand history of EF.
Like when you know a companythat I've I would have always
had a great respect andadmiration for, EF, given that

(13:02):
you know how to operate and thefact that you haq handle
students, which is a verydifficult market to serve, uh
many people try and get intothese different sectors of
travel seeing an opportunity,but very few companies stand the
test of time like EF.
So the fact you work withstudents, you have this
educational component and thislanguage component that is a is
really at the core of thebusiness, but it's also where
customers today they want thatcultural connection, they want

(13:25):
that immersion.
Like the the history of thebusiness starting with Swedish
travelers going to England, umthat premise is what most young
travelers are looking for today,going from going into a a new
culture, learning new languages.
And and and so the other thingthat stood out to me was
yourself as the leader uh ofthis business.
And I was like, you know, it'svery it's not that often in this

(13:48):
industry where the stars align.
When I looked at this newproposition, I looked at the
history of the brand, and Ilooked at you as the leader, and
I was looking at your backgroundbecause the one thing that's
great about this conversation isHeidi and I have never met.
That's one of the things thatwe've we've I saw her on stage
and she was she was whisked offto do some incredible epic uh
race, which I want you to telleveryone about as well.
But I also just want tohighlight one of the other

(14:08):
reasons I was very keen to haveyou on the Travel Trends
Podcast, Heidi, is because youare a perfect example of an
incredible female executive thathas risen up in the business,
starting as a tour consultantand learning the business, as
you know, we both referenced 20years, but like you and but I
think the next 20 years areprobably the best is still yet
to come with what you're gonnabe able to bring to this
business.
But when you when you look atyour history to um as you've

(14:32):
grown in your career and withEF, it's very clear that you
understand uh the full business.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat made you want to get into
travel in the first place andwhat make how culturally aligned
you are with the business interms of adventure and and
travel and and your enthusiasmfor this space.

SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, I absolutely love myjob and live and breathe the
mission.
That's really what brought me toEF was the mission of opening
the world through education.
And, you know, I a littlebackground of how I got into
travel.
So I I grew up in a small townin the Midwest in Kansas.
And growing up, my my familydidn't travel internationally.

(15:13):
I didn't, I didn't know anyonethat traveled internationally
when I was growing up.
And, you know, that was until myfamily stumbled into hosting
international exchange students.
So when I was in the fourthgrade, uh, about nine years old,
we hosted our first student fromNorway.
And then we proceeded over thenext nine years until I

(15:33):
graduated high school.
We had nine students from ninedifferent countries around the
world.
And it was incredibly impactful.
Of course, I was at a key agewhere I was absorbing and
learning.
And, you know, for me, it was soexciting to have a new sister
that was coming and joining ourfamily every year that I got to
learn from.
And, you know, suddenly I waslearning new words, you know, in

(15:54):
other languages and tasting newfoods that their family would
send and the recipes that theywould try to create that were
nostalgic to them for home fromhome and you know, the
celebrations around theholidays.
And so I really uh had thisinterest in learning about other
cultures that was that was umsparked from a from a very young
age.

(16:14):
But not knowing people thattraveled, I really didn't know,
you know, where that would leadme.
Um and I went, you know, thenwhen I went to university, uh I
had an opportunity to join thisprogram, this international
community service program.
I spent a summer in Mexico aspart of a Rotary International
grant and doing volunteer workand um working with a school

(16:36):
with young, young women uh inthis small town I was in in
Mexico.
And then that led me to applyfor a year-long ambassadorial
scholarship, where then I livedin Spain for a year and traveled
throughout Europe.
And I remember thinking, youknow, this is this will be my
only opportunity to get toEurope.
And so I spent every penny andthen some to travel as much as I
possibly could and learn as muchas I could.

(16:57):
And uh, and it was right aroundthat time that then I stumbled
upon EF.
And, you know, I I was hookedfrom day one.
I, you know, walked in the doorof EF and it's this vibrant
culture.
There's an energy that you feelno matter what office you go
into around the world.
And and everyone is really herewith this shared mission of
helping people experience andand learn about the world and

(17:20):
other cultures and otherlanguages and through all
through any of our different EFprograms.
And so when I started, I startedas a uh tour consultant.
So that's our sales role, and itwas in EF Go Ahead Tours, which
is our product for adulttravelers.
So a lot of those travelers, 35plus, but the core tends to be
people right around retirementage or getting ready to and are

(17:43):
wanting to go and and live outthose, you know, life dreams
that they've been saving for togo and and experience new places
they've been dreaming offorever.
So we we actually talk a lotabout our in our sales culture.
I talk uh in terms of not salesnumbers, but in terms of travel
dreams, because we're reallyhelping bring people's dreams to
life and giving them theconfidence and and inspiration

(18:04):
to go.
Um, but it's so much moremeaningful than that, which is
what has kept me through EFthrough the years.
You know, we're we're a part ofpeople's stories, we're a part
of their life moments.
We're helping people celebratemilestones or get through a
difficult time and uh and travelis so enriching and meaningful
and impactful.

(18:25):
Um, and so for me it's it's allmission.
That's you know, I have stayedand we like are a culture that
lives and breathes our valuesand our and our mission every
day, and trying to help inspiremore people to to go.
And um, and so I'm not done yet,as you say.
You know, twenty twenty-oneyears in, and I have many more
years to come to uh to to goahead of me to make a big

(18:45):
impact.

SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
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SPEAKER_02 (21:08):
I'm actually just reading Mark Carney's book,
who's now the Canadian PrimeMinister.
I'm not bringing in politicsinto this conversation.
The reason I'm actuallymentioning it is because when he
was the bank of uh when he wasthe governor of the Bank of
England, he used to run to workboth directions each day.
And for him, that was actuallypart of his his daily routine to
be able to keep up his physicalhealth, his mental health, and

(21:28):
to be able to, you know, how nomatter how stressful his day had
been, he was going to put on hisrunning shoes and he was going
to run home.
And uh and I so I I I love thatabout uh just in terms of
learning from other leaders ofhow they manage stress.
Uh but tell us a little bitabout the event you were doing
when uh I saw you in Denver,where you were heading off to.
Tell everyone about what you'reheading off to and how you have
decided to kind of build thisinto.

(21:49):
You love travel, you obviouslylove exercise and outdoor
activity.
How have you built this intoyour career?

SPEAKER_04 (21:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And actually, I have to I'llhave to look at that book
because uh I can relate to it.
I also run in and home fromwork.
So uh I'll alternate.
I'll, you know, bike in, runhome, run in, bike home.
And it's about a 10 mile uh rideor run, and it's through the
city.
It's you know, it's it'sdefinitely both stress relief,

(22:15):
but also absolutely energizing.
I get in, I get into the officein the morning and I'm usually
listening to podcasts and uh onmy run and stopping every so
often to write down an idea thatI have, and I come in and like
filled with energy, ready tostart the day.
And you know, at the end of theday, I can help helps me process
um any, you know, toughdecisions that have to be made
or ideas that we were generated,generating, or conversations

(22:36):
that I had.
So um love to be outdoors andand have that sort of time um to
be active coming in.
But to answer your question,which was the the event that I
did, so after the adventuretravel trade association event
that was in in Denver, I where Ispoke, uh I headed right off to
Kansas, actually my home state.

(22:56):
So it was super meaningful forme, and did something called
Unbound Gravel.
So this is a the world's largestgravel race, and it brings in
people from, I think there were12,000 uh different participants
that were coming from somewherearound 40 different countries
around the world and that cometogether to this uh smaller town

(23:17):
that's in Kansas, Emporia,Kansas, to do this gravel bike
bike race in the Flint Hills,which are beautiful and very
peaceful.
So I did the 50 mile version uhof this race.
And uh, but we actually had oneof our pro riders, Lachlan
Morton, who did the 250 mileversion of the race, which is
super inspirational to haveseen.

(23:39):
So yeah, and I, you know, Ithat's how I I love to keep
myself active.
You know, I do I'm travelingactually soon to go to
Switzerland, and we have a fewmeetings in our international
headquarters in Zurich.
And the weekend after themeetings, there's a big group of
us from EF Adventures and EF GoAhead tours that are staying and
planning to do a hike in theAlps.

(24:02):
And, you know, both because welove it, and it's a great way to
get to, you know, spend timetogether and get to know each
other better.
And there's, I mean, one of themost beautiful places in the
world are the Swiss Alps.

SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
Absolutely, yeah.
No, stunningly beautiful.
And you definitely, the the bookis interesting.
Clearly, you um, I guess onething that's similar to uh in
both of us, that the originalidea for this podcast was
connected to the fact I used toride my bike into and out of the
office every day in LonelyPlanet, living in Melbourne,
great weather.
So you could do that year-roundum, less in Canada, but
nevertheless uh in Australia, weI rode my bike to the office

(24:34):
every day, and I used to listento podcasts, and I used to take
those learnings and I wouldapply them to my role.
And um, and so this is alwayswhat I'm thinking about when I
have the privilege to speak tosomeone like you, is that
exactly that person that isriding their bike to work and
that's looking up and admiresyou with what you've
accomplished in your career andultimately would love to have a
role like yours.
So uh I want to stay on thattopic for a little bit longer,

(24:55):
and then I want to get your yourviews on the industry and trends
and insights.
But in terms of leadership,that's one of the things I was
keen to understand.
You're as a leader of thisbusiness, and clearly you um
you've grown effective teamsbecause you've been in like
sales managers' roles andpresident roles and VP roles.
As you as you are uh going up inyour career, you're taking
people with you, you're creatingopportunities for other people.

(25:17):
Tell us a little bit about yourmanagement style and how you
work with those people aroundyou, because everyone I could
see gravitates to you and youhave just a great energy about
you.
So, what is it that you'reconsciously trying to uh achieve
with your management style?
And then I'm also keen to knowabout your vision for the future
of this business.
But tell us a little bit abouthow the the team culture that

(25:37):
you've been very focused oncreating around you.

SPEAKER_04 (25:39):
Yeah, yeah, and thank you.
I mean community is everything,I would say.
You know, people, the heart ofwhat we do, it's rooted in
people.
That's the business that we'reinto is is, you know, helping
people live out their dreams orenrich their lives in some ways.
And, you know, we're a learningculture.
So we're not only, you know,educational travel for and
educational, you know,programming for our customers,

(26:00):
but we're also about thatinternally.
We're constantly learning andgrowing and trying to improve.
So, you know, I would say thethings that are important to me
are this sense of community.
I want to know my team and havethe team know each other.
And I think we can solve, we cando hard things together.
We can solve big challenges whenwe work together and bring in
everyone's unique skill sets alltogether.

(26:22):
And uh, so that's reallyimportant to me is to building
this sense of community andconnection.
And then the other piece of itis that, you know, I'm
definitely a lifelong learner.
I never want to stop learning.
I never want to stop growing.
And I, you know, want that formy team too.
I think, you know, we're a lotof times um that's when we're at
our best, is when we can feelourselves growing.

(26:44):
And even even in the toughtimes, sometimes we grow the
most and we come out of itstronger on the other side.
And but you've got tocontinuously, you know, for me,
I've learned in my career, youknow, I sort of need to be the
owner of my growth, even thoughI've had many amazing mentors
that have supported me along theway.
Um, but I've really tried toencourage that with anyone else
that I've worked with at EF tocontinuously push yourself to

(27:08):
take, you know, take on newchallenges, to be reading, to be
listening to podcasts, to be,you know, trying to challenge
your way of thinking.
And that's what's kept me freshthroughout my 20 years of
working with the EF WorldJourneys brands and working with
the Go Ahead Tours brand duringthat time is that I'm constantly
learning.
It's a growth mindset.
You know, I love big, bold goalsin work and in life.

(27:30):
Uh, I think that it takes usfurther if we can envision
something that's that's bold andum expansive.
And, you know, we approacheverything with this mindset of
of, you know, what if?
And so that's how I try toapproach both my work and also,
you know, in in life, whetherthat's doing a big race or a
big, you know, adventure racesomewhere in the world, um, it

(27:53):
helps me grow and develop.
So those are those are a fewthings we also lead with
strengths.
We have uh we love strengthfinders at EF, and I'm a big fan
of it.
And so, you know, I have uhpositivity and futuristic and
strategic uh and achiever andincluder in my top five.
And so it's this combination ofconstantly looking to the future
and trying to, you know, connectwith people and bring them along

(28:15):
in that journey.
So no, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 (28:17):
I appreciate you sharing that.
And then one other thing Iwanted to follow up and ask you
at this point in theconversation.
Usually I leave this for theend, but given we've been kind
of alluding to the future withthe EF, and you you know, you've
taken on this role in the lastyear, and I'm sure you're
thinking about 2030, that likethe next three to five years,
where do you want to take thisbusiness?
Obviously, the EF Adventures isone of the most exciting
developments, but you've got amassive core business as well.

(28:39):
And so you've got so manydifferent opportunities as far
as I'm concerned, especiallywhen we're seeing this dramatic
increase in travel, despiteshort-term geopolitical setbacks
that always occur in travel.
There is a long-term trend thatI'm sure you and the team and uh
are paying very close attentionto over the next 10 years with
you know the generational wealthtransfer, one thing that people
are traveling more than ever,young people are spending more,

(29:00):
and this is where I want to getinto some of the trends that you
guys have done in your reports.
But just before we do, tell us alittle bit about your vision for
the company and where you see EFin the next five years.
Is is there a 2030 vision or howdo you guys plan for the next
three to five years?

SPEAKER_04 (29:14):
Yeah, there's so much ahead.
You know, as you said, it's uhthis generation, the, you know,
Gen Z is one of the mostwell-traveled generations, and
that's going to only continue.
And I think also right now, whatwe do uh is as relevant as ever.
You know, people are looking formore purposeful, more
intentional travel.
They're wanting to, you know,not just uh sit at the beach or

(29:38):
at the resort, you know, they'rewanting to actually connect with
the the stories behind theplaces that they're visiting, to
connect with local people thatlive there, to experience the
local traditions, you know, tolearn the history to have
history come to life, you know,to not just see the sites that
they've seen maybe on in filmsand on Instagram and other
social media, you know,platforms, but to actually learn

(30:00):
about them as well and and gainsome some uh grab this grab the
the iconic image and thenactually learn something about
the place that you're visitingat that time.
And so this is more relevantthan ever.
You know, people are travelingmore than they ever have uh in
the past.
And you know they're alsolooking for companies that put a
big focus on uh responsibletourism.

(30:22):
You know, this is a a core uh ofEF's uh tour design is that we
um approach all of our tourswith a lens on three main
pillars.
So we're thinking about the umthe local communities that we're
visiting and our impact there.
We're looking at the impact inthe environment and we're
looking at the impact on animalwelfare.
And so that's core in our tourdesign and that's really we saw

(30:44):
this and we'll talk trends in aminute but we've seen this in in
the surveys that travelersactually of all ages are really
looking for this in a companythey travel with.
So you know I think that there'sso much more whether it's EF
Ultimate break, EF Adventures orEF Go Ahead tours there's lots
more destinations for us tovisit there's lots more ways
that we can help people travel.

(31:05):
We've launched some of thosethis year already to help people
experience based on their ownpassions, whether that's you
know literary tours like ourbook talk that we have with EF
Ultimate Break or you knowhelping people women we launched
a series of women's tours thatactually for EF GoAhead tours
that are women led and we visitwomen owned you know businesses

(31:26):
and suppliers that help peopleconnect with other women in
their live stories.
And then of course EF Adventuresyou know it's we're we're just
getting started and in theplaces and the types of
experiences we can introduce sowe just launched a new Norway
Fjords tour.
We also launched some uh a tourto Patagonia I'm actually going
to Patagonia soon um soexperience excited to experience

(31:48):
that so there's countless ideasfor how we can help people uh
how we can foster lifelonglearning and our mission of
opening the world that's greatand obviously one of the ways
you do that is surveying andgetting a good understanding of
what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
So you uh EF GoAhead Tours has their traveler index
and I was reading this withgreat interest and anticipation
for our conversation because oneof the things that stood out to
me and I'd seen Brian Hoyt postthis on LinkedIn I was
fascinating I was readingthrough some of the survey
findings and one of them wasthat actually younger people are
less likely to go on datingsites and they're more likely to
travel and with the intention tomeet people, which is also is

(32:25):
also kind of you know written onour DNA and partly what brands
like Kantiki were intended forin the first place.
But it's interesting to see howthings swing back and all of a
sudden there is much more of aninterest of like you know in
terms of finding chemistry withsomebody it's less about looking
at the specific height and likejust specific requirements on a
dating website as opposed tosomeone that you actually share
common interests with and meetin the real world.

SPEAKER_04 (32:47):
So I mean I love that trend actually that was
like that's one of the most funtrends I saw in that in the EF
Ultimate break traveler indexthat uh it's great that people
are wanting to connect in reallife and go out and venture in
the world and what better way toget to know someone than when
you're traveling together andgoing through new experiences
and challenging yourself in newways.
And so I love that I wasactually also just reading

(33:07):
there's a new trend with camps alot of young people wanting to
do a uh you know embrace thenostalgia of your childhood when
you used to go to summer campevery year and they're wanting
to do these adult camps wherethey meet new people and so
we're like hey what could thatmean for uh our experience our
you know tour experiences andyou know at the root of that is
this again this idea ofconnection.

(33:29):
People are wanting to connectwe're such a you know digitally
driven world that's certainlyour future I didn't mention that
but of course AI is going toplay a role in the in the future
of uh of travel and of everyindustry it's gonna impact it.
But of course social media hasbeen been a big influence in the
last decade and you know that Ithink people are now you know

(33:51):
wanting they're they'rerecognizing what they're missing
as much as you know there's goodthat comes from that they're
missing this uh in-personconnection and meaning and and
community building and that'slike the whole beauty of going
on a group tour is that you meetother interesting people whether
you're going out you knowlooking for someone to date or
whether you're just looking tomeet new interesting people uh

(34:11):
in either way.

SPEAKER_02 (34:12):
Well here's an interesting question in terms of
the number of marriages that youguys have been responsible for
do you have any date on any dataon that?

SPEAKER_04 (34:19):
You know that's funny.
We should actually do a littleresearch on that but we've
definitely had a lot ofproposals.
We've had a lot of uh peoplemeet on tour we've even had uh
tour directors that have uhflown we had one one uh one tour
director about a year and a halfago who uh there a couple they
met on a go-ahead tour and theninvited the tour director to

(34:41):
conduct the ceremony so uh heflew out to California we helped
uh fly him out there so he couldbe there for the the um for the
ceremony and and officiant forit so but there's so many more
stories of of proposals andmarriages yeah well it's
interesting that as things havelike multiday tour this whole
category that very few agree onthe terminology you know uh tour

(35:02):
radar uses the term organizeadventures even Intrepid uses
the idea of like sustainablesmall group trips um so people
can't agree is it adventure isit multi-day tour?

SPEAKER_02 (35:11):
The reality is they're group trips my my thing
is like if there if uh ifthere's a group you have a guide
and you're traveling somewhereelse together you're probably on
a and it's more than one dayyou're on a multi-day tour.
But one of the things from ITBthe stats that the number of
people are taking multi-daytours now exceed the number of
people have taken independenttrips.
So companies like yours thathave been doing multi-day tours

(35:31):
for decades that do it so well.
And this is one of the I thinkis one of the incumbent
advantages when we do talk aboutAI and technology is that you
actually have the directrelationship with the customer
and the product delivery.
And so however they get there toyou marketing distribution
obviously a lot of those aregoing to be impacted by AI.
But the core experience deliverylargely in the next say 10 or 15
years is going to remain thesame because the you're you want

(35:55):
to meet other humans and go outinto the world and have great
experiences.
So um I see AI having greatbenefits.
We're doing our AI summit ofcourse the end of October but as
an overall big uh trend the ideaof multi-day trips arrival of
obviously bringing that to theforefront this year at their
event in Washington.
And so very keen to know whenyou think about multi-day tour

(36:15):
trips and you see some of thosetrends, I'd love to hear what
else what else stood out to youfrom those like what other
surprising or interestinginsights came out of those
reports as it relates to peopleembracing multi-day travel.

SPEAKER_04 (36:27):
Yeah so you know on the on the topic of of AI, you
know it's it um it wasn'tsurprising necessarily but it
just um you can see how quicklyit's changing the landscape and
how people are searching anddiscovering travel.
So you know we saw that 79% ofour our uh EF ultimate break

(36:48):
audience so you know travelersthat are 18 to 35 so Gen Z young
millennials are already using AItools to search and discover and
dream um and in some cases booktravel.
And so you know what and thenwe're seeing that continue to
grow.
So for EF Adventures that thatpercentage was closer to about
35% of that audience is isstarting to use those tools to

(37:11):
search and discover.
You know, but what the what setsgroup travel and what we do at
EF apart is the communityaspect.
So the group aspect, the socialconnections that you don't get
if you're just booking anindependent trip, that you miss
out on this meeting otherinteresting people.
It's the you know relationshipsthat we have for you know

(37:32):
decades with local localsuppliers like finding that very
special unique family-ownedvineyard or restaurant that's
out in the countryside thatwould be really difficult to get
to uh on your own or you evencouldn't because they only open
up you know for specialoccasions and for special groups
with longstanding relationships,which we've built having an
international you know globalcompany and legacy with success

(37:57):
in helping support them.
So you know our suppliers are abig part of um how we curate our
experiences and thoserelationships help bring to life
the the places that you'revisiting.
And then there's just we'rerooted in learning.
So you know if you are bookingsomething independently you
don't have the local guide whois an expert in the history of

(38:18):
where you're going or has grownup in that region, you know, and
and can give you the littleinsider tips and gets to know
you and what matters to you.
And something we talk a lotabout with uh with EF World
Journeys is how are we makingthe experience you know easy.
So truly you know how every stepof the the way to be supportive

(38:39):
uh we're you know one of theleading companies when it comes
to safety uh infrastructure andand we have a you know 24-7
emergency infrastructure that'sthere to support people we're
also talking about how we makeit really personal.
So we want people to be you knoweach each individual that's on
that trip has a reason.
They have a why of what broughtthem to that destination or made

(39:01):
them choose that itinerary andthat's really what our our
consultants and our tourdirectors they're uh they love
to do is understanding the whyfor that traveler and how do you
make that journey really specialfor them.
And then it's the making themtruly immersive so that people
are learning and connecting withthe local culture and
traditions.
And then it's how you know weare again connecting people and

(39:24):
to the place and to each other.
So this sets it apart and Ithink while AI will help people
you know fuel inspiration andideas and um and allow companies
to you know scale person thatsort of personalization and make
the booking process easy.
What can't be replicated isreally that you know in-person

(39:44):
connectivity with othertravelers.
And so I think it's excitingit's a really exciting moment to
see that and to see how much thegroup travel industry or the
multi-day industry is is growingright now and we've seen this
resurgence and this you knowrenaissance as some would call
it uh coming out of the pandemicand how much we've um
dramatically grown as peoplereturning to group travel.

SPEAKER_00 (40:08):
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SPEAKER_02 (42:03):
There's three things that stood out to me in your
report and I just wanted to callout a couple of them to get your
your take on one issustainability and this is a
topic that we've talked aboutfor you know 10 or 15 years
going all the way back to AlGore's an inconvenient truth and
now we're living with therealities that were presented
then in terms of climate changeand it is certainly one of the
biggest trends that we're alsoseeing that people are

(42:24):
responding to climate changewhere some destinations are
overheated and overcrowded.
And the stat that stood out tome was that 89% of travelers in
your study are prioritizingsustainable travel choices.

SPEAKER_04 (42:35):
So I I'd love to get your take on that with how EF
World Journeys is addressingthat demand for a more
eco-conscious travel that'sright yeah we've seen that
across all three of our familyof brands and so whether you're
you know Gen Z to baby boomersthis has now become a priority
for all travelers.

(42:55):
And with that not only are youknow 89% prioritizing it but
about a little over half oftravelers told us they're
willing to pay more in order toyou know make that happen in
their trip.
So there's a few things thatwe've been doing actually a lot
not a few things there's a lotthis has been a focus for EF for
you know well before even thepandemic and and now when it's
sort of in the forefront um andI mentioned earlier but I'll

(43:19):
mention them here the the threepillars to tour design for
responsible tour design.
You know so the first is thisyou know protecting the
environment and so we're lookingat how we measure um measure our
carbon impact that we're havingwith our trips.
We're looking at you know whowe're selecting as suppliers and
what are their sustainabilitypolicies and so that we're

(43:43):
choosing responsible suppliersand that this is at the
forefront of their decisionmaking as well.
We were um we're thinking aboutit in the tour design process of
how you know people aretransporting between you know
locations.
Like most of our trips you'renot actually circling back.
So you don't fly in and out ofthe same airport you actually
fly into one airport out ofanother airport so that you're

(44:05):
not backtracking that's actuallyalso very convenient for people
it's uh to not have to do tobacktrack on the trip.
So there's so many elements thatwe're designing with supplier
experiences that we're having onthe ground whether that's you
know in Costa Rica and you'relearning about you know
regenerative sustainable farmingpractices and going to a tree
farm so many activities thatembrace this philosophy.

(44:28):
The second is around how we'reyou know investing back into the
local community.
So again this comes into thetour design of who we're
choosing as our suppliers andour partners and does that
positively impact back into thecommunity?
Does that help peopleunderstand, you know, get uh
cultural relevance in that inthat destination so there's a
lot in the types of activitieswhether it's women's co-ops that

(44:50):
people are getting to go andmeet the women there and
understand how theircontributions are going back
into that local community.
And then it's protecting animalwelfare.
That's um a big priority for us.
It's uh you know we've whetherthat's you know if you're
visiting the elephants inThailand, you know, we're
choosing where we're going sowe're not doing elephant rides,
but instead we're goingsomeplace where we're learning
how they're you know beingprotected and taken care of.

(45:13):
So um this is a key priority andit's great to see that you know
as as consumers are uh focusedon that too and you know we're
looking at we've we give umwater bottles out on many of our
products so that people canre-do a refillable water bottle
while they're on tour and we'regiving them tips before they go
and while they're on the trip ofhow they can you know practice

(45:34):
sustainable and responsible umyou know behaviors I guess while
they're on tour.

SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
So well it's interesting because obviously
seeing this industry evolve andno the number of companies that
were almost ahead of their timewith trying to address this need
because they were many companieswere stumbling over them each
other trying to do more topresent themselves as more
sustainable as the alternativebut it wasn't yet like
pre-pandemic it really wasn'tmaking a big impact on consumer
decisions.

(46:00):
Cost was obviously like the pripricing and value.
And so what you called out isreally important that 50% of the
people are also willing to paymore for sustainable options.
So the other thing I wanted toask you on one of the trends
we've talked already aboutpeople seeking connection and
community and that certainlystood out in solo travel is one
of the fastest growing sectors.
So keen to get any additionaltakes from you on that but the

(46:22):
the one thing I'm also reallykeen to get into further to the
conversation aboutsustainability is this question
of value for trips.
And something I learned fromStanley Tolman who I learned a
great deal from and his sonBrett of course who was uh two
of my mentors in the travelindustry for nearly a decade and
one of the things I learnedcertainly from from Stanley who
created you know a hundred yearuh business to travel
corporation that was ultimatelysold to Apollo and it's like um

(46:44):
private equity firm but one ofthe things I learned from from
him was this concept of valueand that you have to present
like consumers are smart makesure that you present to them a
really compelling uh itinerarywith all the options that are
and and with the right pricethat people feel like that's
great value for money.
And so is and and that's wherepeople are both rational and

(47:05):
irrational creatures but interms of looking at an itinerary
and looking what the experiencethey're gonna have and then what
the cost is going to be so oneof the things that stood out to
me about your report was that64% of travelers are motivated
by off-peak discounts and we'restarting to see people play
games with pricing.
I've certainly experienced thatmyself where you mark things up
to discount them.

(47:25):
That's already a concern withsome brands in this some
companies in this space.
But in terms of customerslooking for value or looking for
off-peak discounts thatobviously clearly is a trend.
So I'm just keen to know youknow how EF would apply that
insight to your pricing strategyor your promotional strategy to
be able to continue to gainmarket share because I think

(47:47):
that's an important one that alot of companies struggle with.
It's like they put so much timeand effort into putting a
product together and then all ofa sudden people are looking for
discounts and it's a very hardthing to try and uh achieve so
keen to get your take on that asa leader of a global company.

SPEAKER_04 (48:01):
Yeah great question.
So I mean solo and off seasonare two of the biggest trends
right now that uh across thetravel industry.
So when it comes to off seasonyou know that there's a few
reasons why that's trending.
You of course have great valueto your point, you know, that's
that is less expensive to travelin the offseason.
And when we talk about offseason, you know, for anyone

(48:21):
listening that you, you know,you have if you think about
Europe, that typically therewould be sometime October
through maybe April and then youstart to hit back into peak and
the summer months are peak, youknow, and it's off season is
different time of the year otherparts of the world.
And so besides the savings it'salso just like one of the most
beautiful times of year totravel.
If you're gonna explore adestination you have less

(48:43):
crowds.
So you know you're not waitingin in super long lines to try to
get into a you know key sitethat you want to see and uh you
don't have you know is you havemore access to you know the
restaurants that you might wantto try or um you know the small
unique different sites ormuseums that you want to get
into.
So there's there's more access,less crowds.

(49:05):
The weather is just delightful.
It's it's beautiful there's youknow light jacket or or not.
I mean I've been in Greece inFebruary and didn't even have a
jacket on and the sun wasshining and it was uh you had
sort of you're up at the top ofthe Acropolis and less crowds
and it just yeah beautiful.
So I actually you know it'sanother one of the best kept
secrets in the industry is offseason and the word is out and

(49:26):
and travelers are um embracingit.
So we've actually launched at EFGoAhead tours we've now launched
a series of offseason specificitineraries.
So we've always had tours thattravel during the offseason but
these are specifically designedto capture what's you know the
highlights of a destinationduring the offseason.
So places like Italy, Greece,Spain, Portugal, UK and Ireland,

(49:52):
you know, those are some of thethe destinations that we visit
on these offseason tours.
Again great value you knowgetting at a lower cost
traveling that time of year andand just more access as well.
So highly recommend it.
One of my favorite memories wastraveling in Sicily in March.
Oh it's if it's uh I reallyrecommend it's absolutely

(50:15):
beautiful blue skies, sparklingseas, and it's when all of the
uh blood oranges are in season.

SPEAKER_02 (50:22):
So you'll see trucks along the side of the road just
filled with piles of of orangesand you know fresh um fruits and
vegetables that you're eatingand visiting the local markets
and you know we went to uh theuh the bar that was featured in
uh one of the Godfather filmsand sort of had it to ourselves
with a cannoli in hand and so uhthere's so many reasons to
travel during the offseasonleave the gun take the cannoli

(50:46):
yes that's uh that's right umthe uh it's really fascinating
because obviously this is whereyou have a great vantage point
to see customer decision in realtime of what stations are
looking at because one of thetrends that you just alluded to
of course is the cool cation andthe idea people are traveling at
different not different times ofthe year for sure like May is

(51:06):
the new July is a phrase I'vealso heard and that um um and
that people are generationallylike um because this is one of
the questions I'm keen to askyou as well is the difference
between generations but in termsof destinations clearly older or
younger travelers will uhgravitate to shoulder seasons or
finding great value or choosinga cool location that they'll go
to Scandinavia instead ofSouthern Europe in July.

(51:30):
But one of the things I was alsokeen to to ask you on this topic
is the difference between thegenerations because you again
have a really unique insightinto that because you market to
Gen Z and millennials and thenas you highlighted at the
beginning of our discussionabout the different brands you
also market and anyone who'sgone to EF.com which I'm sure
quite a few people during thisconversation to really

(51:52):
understand the business and allthe different brands because you
actually break it down by agegroup and so you can see the
different demographics.
One of the things I'm reallykeen to understand how you're
successful at doing both becauseI have definitely seen from my
experience working with multipletravel brands like in-house at G
Adventures trying to figure outhow best to target different
markets and then even with acompany like the travel
corporation that has brands fordifferent age groups from

(52:15):
Kantiki to Trafalgar to Insightand certain brands are really
successful at at matching theiroffering, their messaging to a
specific audience but I've notseen a brand like EF that is can
be great at both.
Like you're great at youthmarketing and you're great at
baby boomers.
So tell us a little bit abouthow how you view those

(52:35):
generational differences betweenthose two and how you you know
you cater EF ultimate breaks tothe younger demographic and then
the 35 plus.
So yeah how do you as anorganization approach that?

SPEAKER_04 (52:45):
Yeah yeah well you got to know your customer that's
you know that's the why we'rehere.
You know for me that's that'sthe why I I've been in this
business for 21 years and I canclearly see the impact that our
programs have on our customersand that's you know what brands
need to do and we we needeveryone that's working in the
company no matter if you're in arole where you're talking to
customers every day or you're ina role where you're building the

(53:06):
platforms that sort of supportour customers every day everyone
should know our customer.
So we actually at EF dosomething really special where
all of our team members will goon a tour each year.
So it it does a few things ithelps them get to you know our
team members get a chance to umconnect with our travelers they
get to see the product in reallife experience it from you know

(53:27):
every step of the journey theyinteract we have a a very cool
feature that's our mobile app.
We were one of the first travelcompanies to have a mobile app
and what's beautiful about it isit helps people engage with each
other and meet each other in thegroup even before they go
throughout the trip and whenthey come back.
So it really with that missionof fostering connection and

(53:47):
community.
And this gives our staff whenthey're going a chance to
interact and see how it works,see it come to life and so and
and spend time with ourcustomers.
So you go, you know, dependingon which of the products that
you're working with in somecases you might be working with
all three so you'll change whichuh which tour uh you would go on
each year so that you can meetour suppliers and partners, you

(54:09):
can, you know, sleep in thehotel, eat the meal, um, help
rate the experiences, uh scoutfor new experiences to try to
find like what's the next hiddengem and thing that you know
people are going to want to wantto be doing and spend a lot of
time talking to our customers.
We have the advantage youmentioned mentioned earlier on
the call around how we workdirect with our customers and

(54:30):
that gives us an advantage thatevery single day all day we are
getting to hear insights fromour travelers.
So you know how that shows upcan be different if you're uh in
EF GoAhead tours most of that ishappening over the phone most
travelers are calling in andtalking to us uh if for EF
Ultimate break which is ourproduct for Gen Z travelers that

(54:50):
might be happening on chatsometimes on the phone but
mostly mostly we're chatting ortexting uh to message uh or
emailing uh with with our Gen Zcustomers but all day getting
those insights um we also do anevaluation so every single tour
there's an evaluation of thetour that's built into our
mobile app that I mentioned thatyou get a chance to give us your

(55:10):
feedback on every component ofthe experience and we have a
whole team that is a quality aquality control and customer
loyalty team that that's whatthey spend their days on is
reading the reviews and thefeedback that we're hearing.
They read our online reviewsthey're taking that feedback
then and giving it to ouroperations teams or our service
teams that we can continue toimprove.

(55:32):
And so it's it's uh yeah numberone is like knowing our
customers inside and outunderstanding our product and
how people are reallyexperiencing it.
And then when it comes to thedesign of the trip so you know
what someone's looking so whenyou're you know in your 20s and
you're wanting to go visit adestination of course there's
some things that are verysimilar you know you want to

(55:54):
learn about the city that you'revisiting and you know but you
might also want to do somethingthat's a bit more active maybe
you want to do a a a night's youknow go on the a walking tour of
the markets at night and youknow have or and you know taste
the local spirit that might beyou know typical to that
location.
And you know of course you wantto have some fun.

(56:16):
So you might want to go out intothe evening um and you know
experience what night life is ina destination as well.
But it's actually you know it'suh you're right there.
All of our travelers they havein common is they want to learn.
So they're right there brightand early the next morning and
ready to go out and adventurethe next day.
But we will curate the types ofthings that they're doing based
on you know their interests.

(56:36):
So in you know the wine windowsof Florence is a good example.
That was a big trend.
We saw it trending on TikTok andon different social platforms.
And so we incorporated uh anexperience into our EF ultimate
break uh tours that went throughFlorence for a chance to
experience the wine windows.
And you know we have tourdirectors that uh we we

(56:56):
specifically recruit and trainand support tour directors that
are professional tour directorsfor each of the three products.
And so that is a a team that isworking with the tour directors
are basically your guide that'swith you from start to finish on
the trip.
There also are eyes and ears onthe ground that can give us
feedback on what people areloving and wanting to do

(57:18):
differently.
So we'll, you know, speciallyselect tour directors that are
going to you know connect withthat particular audience of
customers with whether it's EFUltimate break or someone that's
more active like EF Adventures,you know, or someone who is
lifelong learning and they wantfood and wine tours and safaris
and wildlife that if you'regoing with EF go ahead tours.

(57:38):
So it's really in every step ofthe process um to understanding
what matters most, uh whetheryou're Gen Z or baby boomer.

SPEAKER_02 (57:46):
When this comes together in terms of the
destinations, clearly there'sgoing to be places like Japan
that young and old both want togo to but there's going to be
destinations like South Korea,for example, that a younger
generation given you know theblack pink and the rise of these
incredible artists from thatregion and also just what an
amazing place South Korea is totravel where younger people are
putting their hands up to say orlooking for destinations.

(58:08):
Because as we both know manypeople do start with a
destination in mind thatsomething has sparked them that
they want to go to a destinationand then they start looking at
companies that can take themthere.
And then of course you havecustomers that you've uh been
with you for many years that arelooking for you to introduce new
itineraries and go to newdestinations.
So I'm genuinely keen to knowwhen it comes to making
decisions about justdestinations, how do you

(58:29):
determine what you're going tomarket to the younger audience
versus an older audience?
Because again, clearly there'slikely overlap in some cases,
but in other instances you mayactually have you know Columbia
is not a luxurious destinationbut it's a really affordable
destination and it's got so muchto offer a younger generation.
So how do you differentiate whatdestinations you're going to
promote to what demographics?

SPEAKER_04 (58:49):
Yeah it's a great question and you used a perfect
example like South Korea andJapan.
I actually just got back fromSouth Korea and Japan.
I took my 20 year old niece onan EF GoAhead tour and we truly
had travelers of all ages, allgenerations from 17 to 70s we
had travelers from everygeneration that that were going

(59:10):
and some there with their mom ortheir dad or their aunt or uncle
and and friends going and solotravelers and a mix and so
inspirational to see all thegenerations coming together.
But a dust Asia is Asia is a bigtrend and I would say what's
interesting with EF UltimateBreak is you sort of see the
trends set by the youngergeneration.

(59:31):
And it's so it started we sawthis growth of Asia happening
with the you know Gen Z audienceand 20 something year olds super
interested in things like youknow K pop or K dramas that have
become really popular or animewhen it comes to Japan.
So this uh this trend though hasalso now reached the uh EF Go

(59:53):
Ahead tours so the oldertravelers that are now also
wanting to go and experienceSouth Korean Japan Japan.
So a great example in SouthKorea, you know, on our EF
Ultimate Break itinerary, we doa K-pop dance class and so much
fun.
I uh it's not something we do onour um, we do it now actually in
a brand new itinerary we justlaunched for go-ahead tours, but

(01:00:16):
we hadn't done it before.
We started with EF UltimateBreak and it became so popular.
And uh, and I actually we triedit out with my niece, um, and it
was a blast.
It was so much fun.
But that that's something thatthat the younger generation was
really interested in.
You know, the older generationwas uh really interested in
visiting the DMZ, which is aninclusion on our South Korea
tour.

(01:00:36):
Um, this is the D militarmilitarized zone that's between
North and South Korea, and yougo there and have a chance to
visit the um the memorial that'sthere and the museum, and you
get a chance to learn about thehistory, and that's really
fascinating.
But we do both of thoseactivities on on both of the
products.
It's just the the interest levelum starts in different different

(01:00:57):
places.
Um but you're you know, you'reright.
We're what we're doing from adestination, it's it's less
about, you know, in mostcountries that we're visiting,
you know, most of the threeproducts will also visit there,
but they do it in differentways.
And so if you take EFAdventures, when we go to Italy,
you know, we're doing reallyoff-the-beaten path experiences.

(01:01:21):
And you're going, you know, wehave a a biking tour in Tuscany
where you'll bike through thecountryside and then you'll end
your day at an agriturismo andhave, you know, a wine tasting
or a cooking class, or, youknow, meet the owners and hear
their stories.
And, you know, you're staying ata uh, you know, premium like
prod uh hotel that has beautifulviews of the countryside, a

(01:01:44):
swimming pool, spa amenities tosort of rest and recover after
the end of your biking journeythat you've had.
So, um, or you're going andyou're, you know, hiking or
biking in the dolomites, whichis really challenging route, and
then staying at a you know,mountain chalet that's um up in
the, you know, in the the peaks.
And again, you know, withamenities and foods that are

(01:02:05):
focused on wellness and youknow, spa like a small amenities
that can help you recover.
So, you know, that might be atypical itinerary for an EF
Adventures traveler.
If you're going with EF Go Aheadtours, you might either do a
grand tour of Italy, north tosouth, to to experience what
each region has that's veryunique, um, or something like a
food and wine tour.

(01:02:25):
One of my favorite tours I'vebeen on was our food and wine
tour of Tuscany and Umbria.
Um, and I've also done the onethat's in northern Italy.
And so each day you're doingwine tastings and you're
learning about the process ofmaking the wine and um you'll
have food pairings with it, andyou'll go visit a Parmigiano
Reggiano factory and meet theowner and hear their stories of
how it was passed down forgenerations.

(01:02:46):
Then you might go to a localmarket and you know, pick up
some fruits and cheeses andbreads and have a little picnic.
And so it's just, you know,Italy is still popular no matter
if you're no matter what age youare.
It's uh it's one of the topdestinations for US travelers to
go abroad.
But just how you're experiencingit might vary.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:05):
Aaron Powell For sure.
And you also point out somethinginteresting there, too, is that
certain destinations areyear-round, and Japan is one of
those, is that you actuallythere's four seasons, and you
can you've got the cherryblossom season, it's great to go
in the wintertime.
Like so there's some of thesedestinations you go once and you
want to go back to see it at adifferent time of the year.
Um but but I had a couple otherpersonal insight questions for
you, and then I want to uhfinish off with a few rapid-fire

(01:03:28):
questions for our listeners aswell to get some insights from
you.
But uh one of the things Iwanted to ask you just from your
personal experience is and givenour listeners are many of them
are I I refer to them asdecision influencers as much as
decision makers, they're thepeople that are coming to you
and your team and makingrecommendations to, hey, I
listen to this podcast, or I,you know, I think this

(01:03:49):
destination is actually reallyinteresting.
So one of the things I wouldlove to ask you is that you
know, if you could uh giveadvice to your uh 20-year-old
self, if you could rewind time,um, what would be one piece of
advice for someone startingtheir career in the travel
industry?

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:06):
I mean, the travel industry is a work of passion.
You know, you you find whenpeople stay in the industry for
a long time, it's because theylove travel.
They love to learn about newdestinations and they want to
find the hidden gem and theplace that they haven't, you
know, explored before, and yourlist becomes very long of all
the places that you want to go.

(01:04:27):
Um, and so learn a lot, likeread a lot, learn a lot about
different places that you itwill help you later um in your
career to, you know, reallyimmerse yourself in in um in
understanding what makes eacheach country, each destination
unique, what the experiences arethey have to offer, um, what the
culture, cultural differencesare in that destination.

(01:04:49):
I mean, there's there's lots ofstories there about um funny
moments and cross-culturalcommunications, a topic I'm
really interested in and umworking with an international
travel company.
And so, you know, starting tolearn about the difference
differences in communicationacross cultures is helpful in
your career.
Um but really just, I mean, mybest advice is like be a
learner, embrace a growthmindset, and that will help you

(01:05:12):
no matter what career path yougo on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:13):
Very valuable insights.
And how do you then personallystay curious and inspired?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:18):
Yeah, so I love, I mean, I live the brand.
I travel a lot, um, both forwork and for personal.
And even when I'm on a worktrip, I try to attack on a
weekend so I can go hike orexplore some new place I haven't
been to before.
Um, there's, you know, mind Iread many years ago about
mindfulness and try to practicethat in my day-to-day, uh, that

(01:05:41):
you can be moving so quickly,but you can find sparks of
curiosity and inspiration inyour day-to-day, whether you're
at home or on your commute or ina conversation or past someone
in a hallway, or you're in a newdestination and talking to
someone new.
And so, you know, wellness isimportant to me.
And I really think mindful,mindfulness is a uh important

(01:06:03):
part of wellness and trying tobe present.
Um, and you know, I mentionedbefore, relationships are
important to me, and you canlearn a lot from other other
people when you're, you know,when you are curious and you
want to learn about them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:17):
No, I really appreciate you sharing that.
I think it means more to ourlisteners than at first because
it it's something they can takeaway in action in their own
lives, and also just hearingfrom someone like yourself who
has, you know, risen to such aprominent position in the
industry and is obviously goingto continue to shape the
industry, knowing those thingsare, you know, so important, not
only to get yourself there, butkeep yourself there at the same
time, right?

(01:06:37):
Um, this has been a fantasticconversation.
I just have three rapid firequestions, and then I will give
you the last word.
All right.
Let's do it.
So you mentioned you travel alot and clearly you do.
What is something you take on atrip that you wouldn't leave
home without?

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:50):
My running shoes.
Always.
First thing that's packed, Imake sure I have a good pair of
running shoes, usually some kindof trail shoes, so I have an
option to go hiking.
Should I should I see a greatopportunity to get off the
beaten path?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:03):
And then what resource, whether it's a
website, an app, and obviouslyit can't be EF.
I know you've got the EF app.
Um, but where else do you turnfor assistance in your travels
or for inspiration?

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:13):
To my head of market development.
He's the first person I ask.
And he's where he's a uhwalking, you know, encyclopedia
of the world and talk aboutsomeone that's passionate about
travel uh and you know loveshistory.
So that that would be the firstperson that I would message
would be our head of marketdevelopment.
Um, but to answer what you'regetting at, I mean, I actually

(01:07:34):
use Chat GPT a lot now too, forlittle things.
I I think it's interesting forlittle very specific, you know,
if I'm trying to find arestaurant that is uh specific
to an interest, I might, youknow, turn to that and use it as
a tool now.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:47):
That's interesting.
I love that you actually pickedperson first over technology.
I was gonna instantly say that.
Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:52):
I probably have five more people after that that I
would probably use first uhbecause they have the local
insider knowledge.
It's the benefit of working withan international travel company.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Exactly.
You have access to thoseresources.
Awesome.
And then last question favoritetravel destination and why?
This could be where you're goingnext, or but yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:09):
It is, it's always my hardest question.
I mean, my real answer is anyplace I haven't been.
I love going new places.
I love the, you know, feelingout of your comfort zone and you
know, challenging yourself tolearn something new, a new
language, try a new food.
So, you know, I always amlooking forward to someplace
new.
But if I if I'm going back andpicking a repeat place, it's

(01:08:29):
always a tough tie between the,you know, between Switzerland
and getting out into the Alps,which is just absolute natural
beauty, or uh Italy.
I mean, the food.
You can't, um, I can never getenough gelato or pizza, true
Italian pizza and good wine.
So uh, but that's always a toughone.
I've seen some pretty, there'ssome pretty beautiful places
around this world, um, you know,Japan and South Korea included,

(01:08:52):
which I just just got back from,and such interesting cultures to
learn about.
So always I but I will alwayschoose someplace new.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:01):
Very cool.
And that clearly is yourpersonality.
That's obviously likeexploration.
There's a lot that I'vecertainly uh I've benefited from
from this conversation.
I'm sure our listeners have aswell.
Um, your next major competition,where are you off to next for uh
your next marathon or your nextadventure race?
What's uh what's next for you?

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:19):
Yeah, so I actually have a uh uh race that's coming
up.
It's not till next May, so I mayhave to do, I may need to sign
myself up for somethingbeforehand, but it's in
Scotland.
It's a trail race, uh runningrace that's in Scotland next uh
spring.
And uh, but I have a few tripsbefore then.
I'll be at the ATTA conferenceuh World Summit that's in

(01:09:39):
Patagonia.
And so we're gonna go and do acouple of the hikes that we
offer on our EF Adventures tourswhile we're there.
And uh can't wait.
I've never been I've never beento uh Chile and Patagonia, so
excited for that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:51):
Oh, amazing.
And I will be there as well, soI'll look forward to meeting you
in person.
Great.
And I have been there once, andit is absolutely extraordinary.
But I'm gonna be hiking andkayaking, and it's an amazing
week before the event that eachof us are doing various
activities.
So yeah, I look forward tomeeting you there, but I can't
thank you enough for being apart of this Travel Trends
Podcast, season six, Captains ofIndustry.

(01:10:12):
Um, you've certainly lived up toall of my expectations in this
uh interview, and I'm reallyexcited to continue to see you
shine in the industry, whetherit's at Skift or any of the big
conferences, seeing you onstage, and continuing to lead
the charge.
So thank you for making the timefor this.
And I certainly look forward tokeeping in touch, Heidi.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:28):
Thank you.
I loved I loved theconversation.
Thank you so much.
And I hope your listeners will,you know, come and and uh and
chat with us and visit us atefworldjourneys.com and uh to
learn a little bit more.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:41):
Really hope you enjoyed our conversation today
with Heidi Durflinger, the CEOof EF World Journeys USA.
For more information about them,be sure to check out EF.com.
And next week we're gonnacontinue looking at tour
operators by introducing anotherdeep dive, but this time we're
gonna be focused on emergingtour operators.
We have talked to some of thelargest operators in the world.

(01:11:03):
We also had our adventureseries, which was led off by no
one other than Shannon Stoll.
I love Shannon.
I'm thrilled to be here at theATTA conference in Chile, and
we'll be releasing thatspotlight episode very soon.
And I should also mention, forthose of you who heard in my
introduction, about the epiccycling trip I had the privilege
to go on for the week beforethis conference.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:24):
You can check out highlights on my Instagram at DC
Trips.
Next week, you're gonna hearfrom this absolutely exceptional
entrepreneur, Nabila, who runs acompany called And Get This, A
Dose of Travel, because she wasa pharmacist-turned travel
industry entrepreneur that haslaunched a tour operator.
She's based in New York, she'sfocused mainly on South Asia,

(01:11:47):
and she was an ideal person tobring on to kick off this
emerging tour operator seriesthat's brought to us in
partnership with our friendsover at Tour Seta.
That's T-O-U-R-S-E-T-A.com.
If you want to get moreinformation about them before we
launch into that series nextweek.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:03):
And also, don't forget we have our AI summit
coming up in just two weeks.
So make sure you're registeredat Traveltrendspodcast.com to
join us on October 28th and29th.
And of course, we post clips andhighlights on all our social
channels Instagram, LinkedIn,and YouTube at Travel Trends
Podcast.
Thanks again for joining us.
Until next week, safe travels.

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