S4/E3 Revolutionizing Adventure Travel: WeRoad Co-Founder, Erika De Santi

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the latest
episode of Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and I am thrilled to
have you joining us for thisdeep dive into adventure travel
sponsored by our friends atTourRadar.
As you heard in last week'sepisode, we spoke to James
Thornton, the CEO of Intrepid,followed from our conversation
with Shannon Stoll, the CEO ofthe Adventure Travel and Trade

(00:36):
Association.
Both of those conversationsclearly resonated with our
listeners, based on the comments, the feedback and the
engagement, which I'm thrilledto see, because I love this
category, I love this industryand I'm really keen to see the
continued rise of this multi-daytour, adventure, organized
adventure, socially conscioustraveler however you want to

(00:56):
refer to it, but this style oftravel is set for remarkable
growth in the next decade, andthe next company that we're
about to feature is going to bea significant part of that.
Today, we have one of theco-founders of WeRoad joining us
, erica DeSanti.
Now, I've become quite familiarwith their business over the
last couple of years and I'vebeen tracking their success, so

(01:18):
I was so pleased to have thisopportunity to speak to Erica,
because I think what you'llstart to see and understand is
that not only does she have aremarkable backstory in terms of
her messaging, storytelling andmarketing capabilities, but
when you look at the team thatthey have formed and the success
they're having in themarketplace, it's very clear
that they're revolutionizing themarket with this unique social

(01:38):
style of small group travel inEurope, and they're seeing
double growth in many of theirmajor markets.
So I'm really excited for you tohave this opportunity to listen
to Erica yourself.
Don't forget to subscribe onyour preferred streaming channel
to be notified when newepisodes go live on Spotify or
Apple, and we also put videoclips up on our YouTube channel

(01:59):
and Instagram for you to be ableto see special highlights from
the show, so make sure to checkus out there as well.
Now I have the fine pleasure tointroduce you to Erica DeSanti,
the co-founder of WeRoad.
Erica, it's great to have youwith us.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Thanks a million, dan .
I'm so excited for this podcast.
Right now I'm in Milan, so I'mbased in the HQ of WeRoad where
the magic happens, yeah it'sincredible.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
It's such an important part of your story too
, knowing that you're in Italyand obviously one of the many
aspects that you oversee isinternational growth, so
understanding how you'rebuilding up adventure travel in
many of the European countriesthat typically adventure travel
has been a lot of the Englishlanguage countries, and so
there's so much to your businessthat I want to discuss on our

(02:45):
conversation today, because I dosee a very bright future for
WeRoad and it's an incrediblesuccess story with so much
potential ahead of it.
But I want to start by gettingthe backstory, and specifically
on yourself, because I was everso keen to interview you, not
only because you're a strongfemale leader in this space
that's doing amazing work, butyou actually also have a strong
background in travel and tourismand a real passion for this

(03:08):
space, in this industry.
So I'd love to get yourbackstory in terms of how you
got into travel and what youstudied in school.
So take us through some of theearly days of your development
and how you actually decided toget into the travel industry.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, it was like love at first sight, I would say,
but definitely start from theroots and from the basic of my
background, let's say, becauseI've always loved to interact
with people, and you realizebecause I speak a lot.
But the objective that I hadwhen I was a kid was interacting
with anybody in any languagepossible on the world.

(03:42):
So I started the curiosity ofother cultures through foreign
languages, to get in contactwith other cultures by studying
how they speak and how theycommunicate, and so this was the
basis, let's say in thefoundations, for my academic
background that later turnedinto, okay, perfect.
I've studied these amazinglanguages, but what about
visiting those places?

(04:02):
And so the desire to go beyondmy tiny, tiny village in the
province of Verona so Romeo andJuliet's town, let's say and get
to know the culture like inperson.
In that sense, and when I had topick, you know, a career, an
industry to work with theknowledge of foreign languages

(04:23):
that I've gained, I definitelystarted from travel.
I entered my first travelagency as an intern and I got
shocked in a positive way, Iwould say.
I had a sort of imprinting,because I've seen all those
amazing catalogs showcasingincredible experiences and trips
around the world, showcasingincredible experiences and trips

(04:45):
around the world.
I didn't know half I would say,not half, 80% of the
destinations that were listedthere and I decided okay, maybe
this is my world, I need to deepdive into it and discover it,
all working in this amazingindustry.
So that was my, let's say,first turning point, ha-ha

(05:05):
moment in my career.
After that, I started, you know, venturing in different aspects
of the industry.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I was going to say it's fascinating because
having a background inlinguistics and literary
communication as you do, butalso the fact that your thesis
was on Shakespeare, so I lovethe fact right there, when I
look at the WeRoad brand andpositioning, is that you're a
storyteller at heart and I thinkthat that is clearly a passion
for you, so understandinglanguages and the art of

(05:36):
storytelling.
And then, of course, you movedto England and you did your
master's in tourism at theUniversity of Surrey and that I
think that's where, as you notedthat you know, that really
fueled your passion.
So you've got this incredibleacademic understanding and then
you're now you're out in thereal world trying to figure out
how am I going to apply all ofthis?

(05:56):
So you're working as a travelagent and you're, you know,
getting your learnings in theindustry, and I think that's one
of the things that really stoodout to me about your story is
that you made your way up in theindustry and so you actually
started as a specialist and, youknow, even within WeRoad itself
.
So, yeah, so tell us about thejourney to get to WeRoad,
because you had a few differentopportunities some court roles,

(06:18):
startups so tell us how yousegued into WeRoad because,
again, that's a reallyinteresting story too.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, it's a mixture of everything that you can
basically find in travels, right.
So once I've understood that, Iwanted to focus on these as an
industry for my personal growth,but also professional growth.
I just literally approached itlike experience by experience,
right.
Approached it like experienceby experience, right.
So, as you said, I did thedissertation, my dissertation on

(06:52):
Shakespeare and literarytourism, in Verona, because I
thought like spaces could bestorytelled in so many different
ways and provide incredibleexperiences that are different
for every target.
So I kind of adopted the sameapproach with the industry.
I tested out, okay, what isworking in a travel agent, loved
it, but I wanted to get to knowmore, I wanted to deep dive
into the experiences.
So I tested out also thehospitality world, like as a

(07:16):
hotel receptionist, and there Ithink I had the chance to
literally grasp what the needsof the customer are in
destination, right.
So, and obviously, as everybody, I suggest doing an experience
in a hotel or as a hotelreceptionist, like front-facing
customers, because there you getthe needs of people and you

(07:38):
also become an amazing problemsolver, either you want it or
not.
So this is going to happen inany case, but I actually loved
the contact with people, becausethat's part of my DNA, I would
say.
But I love more like having amore strategic, let's say, view
on what was the experiencecrafting of the whole industry,

(08:02):
right?
So I decided, okay, let's tryand understand what other
possible opportunities in themarket are.
And after, as you said, going inthe UK for a while, deep diving
more and more on tourismmarketing, I came back home and
I started working in what was anincredible startup scale up in

(08:25):
my hometown, verona, that workedon gift boxes right, which
basically is putting incredibleexperiences in a box and gift
them right.
So my role there was very muchsalesy, as you would imagine,
because I was literally tryingto convince all providers to
join these gift boxes, soproviding their experiences as

(08:48):
potential gifts for people.
And I really was super fond ofthe project because I thought
that, you know, experiences arethe best gift you could ever
give to people and what betterthan a trip could change
people's lives rather than maybea sweater you like the person

(09:10):
hates but smiles, right,business developer.
But then in that company I hadthe chance to grow into a more
business development role, likeworking hand in hand with the
CEO of the company.

(09:30):
And there is where, when Istarted realizing that I had the
passion for bootstrapping,launching from scratch new
projects, right, so we venturedin many other, um, let's say,
side industries around the giftboxes marketplace, and that
enabled me to literally discoverthat my creative, passionate

(09:54):
approach suits well, uh, astartup and scale up the
environment, right, which issomething that was completely, I
would say, distant from thetourism industry, which which
could be, I think, also in Italy, but especially in the UK
market and, as you said, like inthe English speaking markets,
very established and solid, andputting the two things together

(10:19):
was something that I wasliterally loving, and so that's
what I started looking for, soprojects to jump in that could
literally make a difference inthe sector for our target in

(10:43):
terms of innovation, for ourtarget in terms of innovation.
So how did I get to WeRoad?
Just to close the whole story,in this incredible and long path
, let's say, at a certain pointthe company I worked for was
acquired by the major competitor, right, so I experienced also

(11:04):
the very much, uh, sometimesthreatened m&a experience.
Right so we were acquired andit was harsh, especially because
, you know, working against thecompetition to gain market share
and then being sold to that,also from a personal,
professional perspective, couldbe a little bit daunting, let
let's say, but at the same time,it was a great lesson, Also in

(11:27):
terms of you know which are thepath, the strategic path that a
company could have, and M&A, Ithink, strategically, was the
coolest thing the CEO of thetime could have done, because it
was so spot on, so neat and sovaluable for all the people in
the team.
They had incredibleopportunities.

(11:48):
After that, that, I was likechapeau, but at the time,
obviously, I was junior and Ididn't know the whole strategy
behind.
After a while, I understood howgreat a move that was.
So after that, I decided toventure on, uh, um, on my own,
let's say, startup, and, uh, Iwas amongst you know, the uh,

(12:11):
the learnings, the analysis thatI was doing on innovating, the,
the industry, our industry.
I ventured into the concept ofdigital nomads, which at the
time, right now, I think it'squite the norm, right, right,
talking about these people thatwork remotely from wherever in
the world.
But, trust me, in 2016, italywas like what the hell are these
people?
What are they doing, right?

(12:33):
So I was trying to understand,okay, why do these people go to
Lisbon, to Chiang Mai to Baliand not to Verona, which is
incredible, it's not thatexpensive, et cetera, et cetera.
So I wanted to launch aco-living space to host this

(12:53):
international community.
And that was the business thatI was about to start.
And I struggled to startbecause I was alone.
And while I was, you know,networking, looking for people
to work with on this project, Ibumped into Paolo De Nadai,
which is the founder of WeRoad,and Fabio B, my other co founder

(13:17):
and thanks to mutualconnections to my previous boss
so network is fundamental andthen we started talking together
about the co-living world,because he also was working on a
co-living side project At thesame time as we wrote.
And then, after two long hourconversation, we ended up saying

(13:39):
, okay, the real estate world isso, so slow that we won't be
able to make it like so fast, solet's work together on this
other project.
We wrote and from that day on,my life changed.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
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(15:14):
Now back to the show.
I want to ask you about One Day, because obviously One Day is
the organization thatessentially works with scale-ups
in Italy and has a number andobviously they've struck
lightning has struck with WeRoadin their ecosystem, a number,
and obviously they've strucklightning has struck with we
rode in their ecosystem.
But yeah, I thought it wasinteresting that the co-living,
because I never made aconnection between we rode and

(15:35):
say we work, but obviously AdamNewman had the co-living concept
before he had the co-workingconcept and now he's gone back
to that with this idea of flow,and so it's interesting that, um
, what essentially?
Uh, you had this co-living ideaand then you realize actually
people actually really enjoyco-traveling.
Um, and so was there anyconnection between the branding,

(15:56):
how with we wrote and we work?
Um, was it just totalcoincidence that, uh, at the
time you guys were coming upwith the concept of we wrote,
where did the did the WeRoadname come from?

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Well, it's an Italian story in the sense that it's
the fruit of a brainstorming ofmy founder, paolo, with another
incredible founder of anotherastonishing scale up in Italy,
that is, bending Spoons.
They were at a dinnerbrainstorming about the possible
name to give to WeWrote.

(16:28):
So it was literally the fruitof a group of friends
brainstorming.
So there's actually nothingvery much related to WeWork or
the WeWork ecosystem, let's say.
But what I can tell you is that, given at the time I was
investigating this phenomenon ofdigital nomads, I was
investigating the needs of themillennial that was the word.

(16:50):
Those were the first yearswhere this name came out.
Let's say, when we startedtalking about WeRote, we
immediately understood that thetarget was the same.
So all the studies that I'vedone in innovation in our
industry matched completely withthe WeRoad project.
So the needs that also theco-living was kind of answering

(17:12):
sometimes were coveredcompletely by the WeRoad project
.
And so that also, I think, wasa great link to start, because I
started already knowing thetarget and I was the target, my
co-founder were the target.
So everybody had you know, it'ssomething that you always look
when launching a project fromscratch right the need and

(17:34):
understanding the target.
So we would just look in ourfaces and say okay, this is our
need, let's do it, becausethat's basically what happened
in the early days.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Amazing.
So just so I understand too,with WeRoad being a project
within the One Day Group andPaolo obviously being the
founder, then the three of youguys bringing this incredible
success story to life is WeRoad.
I know you're now on Series Band we'll get into your growth a
little bit later, but whenyou're part of the One Day Group

(18:03):
, are they the parent company,Are they an investor in WeRoad?
How does that work?
And I'm asking that obviouslyfor all those entrepreneurs out
there that are looking at I'mdoing a keynote tonight at a
place called 111 in Toronto,called for the TechTO conference
, and it is a scale-up ecosystem, an incubator as we typically

(18:25):
would refer to them.
So is that essentially oneday's involvement was kind of
helping incubate businesses,including WeRoad, and what's the
relationship today?

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, so I think the coolest bit about one day is
that it was the fruit of thework of Paolo that started with
his first venture when he was17,.
18 years old, that is,squalazzo, which is still, right
now, the biggest Italianstudents community, with more
than 4.5 million users spreadacross Instagram and TikTok.

(18:57):
Right so he launched that firstbusiness, understanding that
the power of community wasabsolute.
Right, and it's not onlyrelated to a social media
account or a blog, as it used tobe at the time, because we're
the same age, so you can guessmore or less how old I am, but
it's related to also how youmonetize out of the value the

(19:20):
community produces.
Right so he ventured intotravel.
So having this communitytraveling together,
merchandising right so creating,for example, backpacks, books,
diaries for school because theschool topic for the first
community that he launched wasincredible.

(19:41):
And becoming a media brand,because when you become such an
influencer on social media, youalso become a media brand and
you can start becoming an editorright at the same, at the same
time.
So he basically used thisapproach and launched several
other businesses or companiesthat were able to support other

(20:03):
communities to reach thesemonetization streams.
Right so we usually joke aroundthe concept that every time we
grow, we become older, we createa community, but basically,
this is more or less whathappened, right?
So right now, we have severalcommunities that cover more or
less all the ages, and we wrotethe covers, the, the age span of

(20:26):
25 to 49 years old.
So the, the role of one day at acertain point, was, okay, it's
a big umbrella, okay, a brandthat covers all, all this
community that have the scope of, you know, um, having an impact
which is positive and, last,full on new generations and the
future.

(20:47):
Right?
So this is, uh, the scope ofthe, of the holding and with.
We wrote it was the first timethat one of our companies was
also exposed to external capitaland investments, right, whereas
before it was everything selfsustained and generated by the
revenues that we made with ourbusinesses, starting from

(21:07):
Squalazzo to a media agency, toan e-commerce provider, et
cetera, et cetera.
We wrote it has reached adifferent level, which is that
of external investment, that ofinternationalization, that of,

(21:28):
you know, exposing an Italiancompany and scaling it across
the whole world.
So, which is something that wewe are trying and testing out
for the first time with our,with our community right.
So this to give you an overallview of what one day does.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
No, thank you for that.
It's amazing, exciting, and Ijust wanted to make sure we
touched on the connectionbecause I could see a lot of the
philosophy of WeRoad reflectedin one day and clearly,
obviously that's the intention,because the spirit and the
concept, yes, exactly, and soWeRoad specifically.
Then obviously you started as aproject coordinator and then

(22:08):
you kind of moved head upstrategy and managing director
international expansion, so theand and now you're even the
chief of people experiences,which I want to ask you about
too.
So let's start at the beginning.
So with we wrote origin story,I'm very keen to understand the
types of trips and the marketsyou were serving initially.
I think now you're up to about100,000 guests that have
traveled with you, but when youwere first getting the business

(22:30):
off the ground and curatingthese trips, because one of the
things I actually really findintriguing is that you came up
with the concept of coordinatorsas the name of a trip
coordinator and obviously I'vespent a lot of time working
across organized tour companiesand different naming conventions
and how they approach theirproducts.

(22:50):
So, given the incrediblesuccessful trajectory you're on,
I'd love just to understandsome of the decisions that were
made at the early stage todetermine what the product
experience was going to be like,what the travel experience was
going to be like, the groupsizes, how you were going to
travel and even the naming.
So how did that all cometogether and what were some of
the first initial trips?

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well, actually, I think that starting from the how
it all was born in the firstplace could help.
It was an understanding, thestrategic thoughts behind it,
and the story starts with Paoloand Fabio looking for an
operator, a tour operator, totravel with, to explore the

(23:33):
world, with like-mindedindividuals, right, so they were
.
I mean one in his late 20s, theother one, let's say, in his
late 30s I don't want todisclose the age because
otherwise Fabio will kill me,but we were all in the same age
bracket and need, let's say, andthey were looking at providers

(23:53):
that could do this in Italy, butat the time, there were no
operators doing this, apart fromtraditional tour operators that
normally are used by peoplethat are over 50 or they're
honeymooners, let's say, and, uh, the millennial in 2017

(24:13):
actually didn't use muchorganized trips, uh, to to go
and venture around around theworld, um, so they looked at the
international competitions andone went on a trip with contiki
and the other one with theadventures, right, so, um, the
major learnings that got out ofthose, those two experiences
were from one side in thecontiki world.

(24:35):
Obviously, it's like more, uh,tailored to a specific target
between 18 and 35 years old,right, but the the trip was very
much um, international and andstandard.
I would say so.
Paolo, when he ventured intothis trip, understood that maybe
our generations needed morefocus on authentic and
off-the-beaten-track experiences, less mainstream, and also he

(24:59):
felt flexibility in theexperience was missing, and that
is something that theco-creation part right, which is
something fundamental andparamount for our generation.
That was basically the Ryanairgenerations that started
exploring Europe with low-costflights and so starting creating
their own trips without relyingon an operator to do that for

(25:22):
them.
So he felt this as being likeoh my God, we could be doing
something like this, becausethis is actually missing.
And also the group dynamicswere not at the center of the
strategy but were like okay, acool thing to get a better fare,
go on the other side of theworld, not spending a shit ton
of money.
So, on the other side, if youthink about the G Adventures

(25:44):
group that Fabio went with inVietnam, it was much more
diverse, right.
So it was in terms of age, interms of backgrounds, in terms
of nationalities, and what wasmissing there was the unity of
the group, right, becauseeverybody just kind of wanted to
look for something particularfrom the experience, but there

(26:05):
was no real bonding between thepeople traveling and there was
no flow and rhythm that went thesame way and once the trip was
over, everything was over.
Ok, so you got your destination.
That was your major objective,doesn't matter the people you're
with, right?
So they came back and they said, okay, look, there's this gap

(26:27):
in the market and in italy thereis nobody doing group travels.
We went to these two experiences.
We might have understood what,what is missing, and they tried
to crystallize what were theneeds of our generations in
experience with such, uh suchtrips.
Right so the first one is theneed of authenticity.
Right so, not having big groupswith 50 plus people together

(26:51):
traveling to a destination,because that becomes,
nonetheless, I mean, it's almostimpossible not to to have a
mass experience in that way,because obviously such a bunch
of people needs a little bit ofstandardization to be operated.
Right.
So maybe smaller groups toenable a more authentic
experience could work and andalso it would be easier to cater

(27:13):
the needs of this group intooff the beaten track
destinations and off the beatentrack experiences and
accommodation as well, right so,um, this was one of the biggest
, let's say, aha moments, alsoin terms of need.
Second, the need of flexibility.
So, as millennials, we don'tlike to be told what to do,

(27:34):
right?
So if you tell me, okay, ateight, this is what you need to
be doing.
At nine, this is what you needto be doing.
At 10, this is what you need tobe doing.
At 10, this is what you need tobe doing, and hurry, hurry that
, otherwise we miss the 11appointment thing.
Maybe we feel the pressure ofnot being able to give our input
and not to create theexperience ourselves, and that's

(27:55):
also something that we put inour trips.
Free time oh my God, this enemyright.
Or the possibility to, let'ssay, make the trip your own.
Last but not least, the needfor relationship.
This we felt it was completelymissing in all experiences

(28:15):
design at the time.
So nobody put the groupcomponent at the center of the
experience, right?
So maybe everybody thoughtabout oh my God, I need to
provide best experience to visitVietnam, so I need to put these
must see, these of the beatentrack experience, et cetera, but
without thinking how the group,how the group experience will

(28:35):
be rolled out across these,let's say, steps of the journey
right.
So, to give an example, we startdesigning a trip, not
necessarily from the destinationitself, but from what we call a
sort of experiential curve orvibe that you can get during the

(28:56):
trip, right?
So the first need of a group isbreaking the ice.
So my need when landing inVietnam you might think is okay,
I land in Hanoi.
It's exploring Hanoi.
No, your need is getting toknow the 15 people you have
traveling with you.
So which is the best experiencethat you can do going out of

(29:19):
Hanoi?
Why?
Because if you put a people of15 that don't know each other,
that have different needs, thatstill feel, maybe, the social
barrier of expressing their ownopinion freely on what they want
to do in a city, which is theplace where you have so many
options, it's going to be toughto manage, right?

(29:41):
So we designed the trip so that, right at the beginning,
there's a ice-breaking moment, amoment where people can get to
know each other, maybe a longtransfer where you have to do a
little bit of team building togo beyond what is the famous
comfort zone, right?

(30:02):
So these are things that we putat the center and, relating to
what you said before, this isvery much the power in the hands
of the travel coordinator,which makes us different than
anybody else.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Fascinating.
So I've got so many morequestions but on this topic, so
getting an idea of where thisbusiness started, because
clearly you made a lot of verysmart strategic decisions and
you know, the one thing thatamazed me about your journey is
that you had a captive market inItaly and in kind of central
Europe, where it was ripe forthis type of travel.

(30:42):
I mean, the companies that youjust mentioned have been around
for many more years Contiki fromthe 60s.
They were targeting Australiansand Kiwis traveling through
Europe via London, and so what'sreally unique is the fact that
you're in the heart of Europeand really the adventure travel
revolution was still yet tohappen there, and you guys
obviously not only timed itincredibly well but came up with

(31:05):
a really terrific concept thatresonated with the younger
generation today, that they feelthat strong need for connection
.
I know one of the things thatwith social media, this whole
loneliness epidemic I know JamesThornton from Intrepid talks
about that a lot and so alsoculturally, there was sort of a
moment where people obviouslygravitated to this style of

(31:27):
travel and it's growing andgrowing.
So so, yeah, so tell us thefirst few trips that you were
running as you were coming upwith these concepts?
Where were you running thesetrips?
And then, specifically, I wantto know that, as you were
talking about the kind of the cotraveling idea and team
building or the, how you came upwith the idea of the
coordinator role versus a tourmanager or a trip leader or any

(31:50):
other kind of title you couldhave bestowed on them?

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah.
So the first trips that we ranat the time were Cuba, morocco,
thailand.
So there were, I think, theentrylevel destinations for the
millennial generation in Italy,because if you say to a German,
let's go to Thailand, probablythey've been several times.
If you told at the time to anItalian, let's go to Thailand,
it's like, oh my God, my firstintercontinental flight, right?

(32:13):
So it was very much specific onthe travel habits of our market
and at the same time, alsoother factors are super
important.
Deciding the first destinationswere instagram trends.
So at the time, uh, indonesiawasn't a thing yet in italy, but
it started, I think, more orless with the iconography of the

(32:36):
ubud rice fields in ininstagram and it become kind of
viral, and so we got the hintthat it could have been big and
in the first year of Life ofWeRoad it became the first
top-selling long-distancedestination, right?
So things like this, a mixturebetween gut feeling and data,

(32:57):
but social data, which issomething maybe different than
all tour operators do, was whatguided our choices of which
destinations to put online inthe early days.
Then, related to what you saidon the fact that we are at the
heart of Europe, right inSouthern Europe, and we kind of

(33:19):
built the concept of grouptraveling from scratch.
I totally agree, because Iremember at the time, studying
the competition, what it did onour markets, and I think
G-Adventures tried to get intothe Southern European markets
but didn't make through or cutthrough, let's say, in terms of
market share and traction, andI'm pretty much convinced that

(33:41):
there wasn't a concept of grouptravel at all.
So if you approach a marketwithout creating first the basis
, the foundation, and explainingwhat that means, you won't be
able to really grasp the market,because the market is so
distanced from what you areproviding that there's no
connection there, right?
So what we did at the time was,with the help of our travel

(34:05):
coordinators that differentiatesus from the others is trying to
literally be rooted in themarket.
So when we had to decide okay,who's the person that could
protect the flexibility in thegroup and take care of the group
dynamics?
Who's the person that at thesame time feels like a
spontaneous promoter of thebrand, a spontaneous ambassador

(34:27):
of the brand?
Who's the person that can pitchspontaneously to their friends
that traveling with other peoplethat you don't know it's not
something bad?
It doesn't mean that you don'thave friends.
It doesn't mean that you haveto worry about getting outside
of your comfort zone and sharestuff that you've never shared,
but it's actually the coolestthing that you can do in your

(34:50):
life.
Ok, it could be the three of ussaying it or it could be a
bigger bunch of people.
So we went for the travelcoordinator and also finding the
name, as you said, it was quitetricky because we wanted to
differentiate from thecompetition out there.
As you said, it was quitetricky because we wanted to
differentiate from thecompetition out there, right,
and as I normally say, thetravel coordinator doesn't
substitute the role of the localtour guide, right?
So across the globe, we haveincredible, amazing local tour

(35:14):
guides that guide us below,let's say, the surface that
everybody can experience in acountry and literally doing to
to get in contact with localcultures.
But the travel coordinator is aperson that takes care of group
dynamics, of the group evenbefore departing, right?
So there are people that havethe most diverse and different

(35:36):
backgrounds and jobs.
You get doctors, you getpharmacists, you get content
creators, you get firemen, youget teachers, everything,
literally, you name one, we haveit.
And these people are all unitedby the passion for travel, the

(35:57):
set of skill sets that we selectand test, obviously like
leadership, negotiation, empathy, team building, problem solving
, but at the same time, thereare people that, on top of being
passionate travelers, are eagerto share their experience with
others and want strive to get incontact with like-minded
individuals, because we aresocial beings, as you said, we

(36:20):
are fighting the loneliness ofour generations and we want to
get to know people that couldbecome our friends tomorrow,
today, hopefully, the day aftertomorrow, right?
So, um, we leveraged on thisneed of our generation and had
these people running our trips.
So, uh, obviously it'ssomething very innovative,

(36:42):
because normally you recruitfull-time tour leaders that also
maybe travel from the resourcemarket, but we decided not to do
that because we thought thatthe power of having somebody
that experiences with you adestination and experience for
the first time is so, someaningful that can't be

(37:05):
compared with somebody that doesit as a job.
I'll give an example.
I always say that when youclimb up the rainbow mountains
in Machu Picchu, right, it'ssomething incredible, it's an
experience that is life-changingfor some reasons, but also it
puts you a lot of time outsideof your comfort zone.
Maybe at a certain point youdon't make it anymore, etc.

(37:27):
And if leading you there's aperson that hasn't seen the
Rainbow Mountains, you have thatwhole emotion of being united,
also by the desire of exploringit together.
Imagine if you had somebodythat does it every day right?
So it's going to be somethingcompletely different, right?

(37:48):
So this is what we put at thecenter, and on top of that, if
you get a local guide that'sdescribing you around, yes,
group dynamics are fine, butthere is no actual focus on on
the group and on the desire ofthat group to become friends

(38:09):
afterwards, right?
So, uh, the coolest bit abouttravel coordinators that nobody
else has is that once you'reback home, it's not over, right?
So normally a trip is over whenit's over, right?
So it's like's like.
Okay, two sides done, visited,fine, maybe I'll remain friends
with one person, I'll write thetext, that's it.

(38:29):
Whereas what happens in havingtravel coordinators that come
from the source market of thegroup so imagine a group of
Spanish people travelingtogether on the other side of
the world is that they reuniteafter they become friends.
They go into other tripstogether, maybe they book with
people that they've met on aWeRoad.
Lots of stories, a lot ofconnections, business partners,

(38:53):
life partners, whatever was bornwithin these WeRoad connections
, right, and this links to ourvision, which is connecting
people, cultures and stories.
There's no trip in our vision,but actually that's what we do
with our experiences, right, andthe community we built is the
guarantor that this happens.

(39:14):
So this, more or less, I thinkit's what differentiates us out
there.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
For sure and I'm just going to read this for
everyone's benefit that we wrote, which was really only founded
in 2017.
So still a very young business,but obviously your focus was
reinventing group travel formillennials by offering
life-changingoff-the-beaten-path experiences
designed to push travelers outof their comfort zones and
foster lasting friendships.
And obviously now you're at,you know, at 100,000 passengers,

(39:44):
you're one of the fastestgrowing travel operators in
Europe.
One of the things that I justwanted to call out about that is
that on the surface of that,obviously it's very compelling,
but it really comes down to whatwe were discussing, which is
the actual delivery of what wetypically refer to in the
industry as the product.
But really the actual travelexperience that our guests are
having and obviously havingworked at Lonely Planet off the

(40:07):
beaten path was sort of theirprimary reason for being and
that's what people bought into,even though I know some people
would say that actually you'renot really off the beaten path
when you're taking a LonelyPlanet guy because you're
literally following all theirrecommendations for hotels and
restaurants.
You're basically on a LonelyPlanet itinerary.

(40:27):
It's a group travel of anotherkind, even though you feel
independent, but nevertheless,the off the beaten path is still
what people are seeking andthat's what resonates with them.
About the brand Life-changing,of course.
I was at G for many years andlife-changing was our core value
and that was something that wedeveloped because we saw that
that was the most profoundimpact that was happening on
people when they traveled on a GAdventures trip.
And I know you mentioned G andyou mentioned Katiki and I

(40:49):
mentioned Intrepid.
All three of those brands areincredibly successful and remain
successful in the marketplaceand I think this is where the
fact that you guys have comealong and there's a book called
Blue Ocean Strategy I bought itfor Bruce Puntip years ago, for
the executive team, because evenat the time there was kind of
seen like there was two worldsfor adventure travel.
There was Intrepid and G.
There was sort of the two biggiants of the adventure travel

(41:11):
space.
The reality was that there's ahuge market for adventure travel
.
Having traveled in each ofthose brands and had great
experiences, you could see thatthere's there's something bigger
happening here, there's abigger opportunity, that there's
something bigger happening here, there's a bigger opportunity.
And so I always had this kindof view of there's a blue ocean,
that there's more people thatneed to be brought into the
adventure travel category, andthe pushing people out of their

(41:32):
comfort zones which is one ofthe things I love that you
incorporate into yourpositioning is essentially what
needs to happen to a lot ofpeople that their lives could be
dramatically improved if theywere just to kind of shake
things up and go on a trip likethis, and then the relationships
they would make with peoplethat would also be positive and
uplifting and that they wouldkeep in touch with.
So that's what I want to diveinto a bit more.

(41:53):
Next is actually how you havebeen so successful in that
product delivery, which I seejust from my vantage point.
I haven't been on a we road yetand I'd love to at some point,
and I'm clearly a need to do itsoon because I'm in the upper
age bracket of your travelersnow, but I would.
I love this concept of theactual travel coordinators being

(42:14):
involved and that they're partof the travel experience as well
, and I think that is incrediblyunique and that certainly adds
to that sense of community.
And even you're mentioning aboutthe fact that they don't come
from source markets.
It's very difficult to getlocal guides, and even if you do
get local guides, you typicallyget them just for the day.
They'll join you for aparticular part of the trip, and

(42:34):
that's the case with manyadventure travel trips.
You have a local expert.
Sometimes it's mandated locally, other times because, obviously
, you want to employ locals, um,but your very mission is to
actually have local peopleoperating these trips, even if
it is a side hustle.
That's something that's alsounique, um, because I think some
of the people that are werotors have successful careers.

(42:55):
It's not as if they are lookingfor this as a there as a as a
primary source of income.
They're actually looking to dothis because they don't want to
work at JP Morgan full-time, orthey work at JP Morgan because I
think one of your WeRoters fitsthat description.
So, yeah, tell us a little bitmore about that.
I'd love to hear a little bitmore about these travel

(43:15):
coordinators.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Just to pick the last bit you were mentioning.
So that's the story of Clarissa, which is our UK country
manager that worked at JP andshe traveled in, I think, in one
of our first trips to CostaRica.
As we rode her, as we call them, like so as a passenger, let's
say was spotted by our travelcoordinator as being like OK,

(43:37):
she could be a great travelcoordinator.
Then she applied to become one,a great travel coordinator.
Then she applied to become one.
She smashed it, as expected byher previous travel coordinator,
and then we scouted her ascountry manager.
So she quit her corporate lifeand right now venturing into
startup, being the whole marketthere, right?

(43:57):
So I think that stories likethis happen all the time in
WeRode not obviously just forWeRode, because I think that
stories like this happen all thetime in WeRoad, not obviously
just for WeRoad, because I thinkthat more or less 35% of the
team of WeRoad is also composedof travel coordinator, which is
incredible because you basicallyhave all the people working for

(44:17):
you and with you that are theultimate stakeholder that
everything works fine, right andwell.
So it's incredible and 80% ofthe people travel at least once
a year on a WeRoad trip, whichis one of the benefits we offer
to our employees, right?
So this makes our communityjust being so so melted one with

(44:39):
each other that enables us tostay as you.
You said how do you keep theexperience together?
I think this is a secret, right?
So have our communities sointertwined with each other that
you literally have alwaysmillions of eyes on delivering
the best one possible on earth,right?
So?
You know how many people I I'veinterviewed in these years

(45:00):
working in the tour operatingindustry and saying have you
ever been in one of the trips todesign?
No, right, and I was like, okay, but it happens so many times,
whereas for us it's literally, Iask, a developer.
Have you ever run a WeRoad trip?
Yes, I've been to these freemarkets with a WeRoad group as a

(45:21):
travel coordinator.
I've done two trips on theother side of the world as a
WeRoader, because it's one ofthe benefits, and then, for once
, I didn't want to think aboutthe group and it's a developer,
and this seems the thing that ismore distant from our group
travel experience, whereasimagine how cool user experience
interface it could design forour roaders or for our travel

(45:45):
coordinators, having been one ofeach of them, right.
So this, I think it's anotherkey element that we try to
foster as much as we can withour people strategy, right,
which is right now also my focus.
And also, I think, anotheraspect to keep the experience

(46:06):
together and a cool one growingup is fostering feedback.
Since day one, we are, I mean,not only fond but a little bit
geeky about gathering andanalyzing and implementing
feedback coming from ourre-roaders, and we have an

(46:28):
internal, you know, surveysystem that has an incredible
filling rate, which is around75% of the people traveling with
us fill the survey telling ushow it went, how the coordinator
was, and everything that we dois based on the feedback of our
ultimate re-roaders.
And it's so intertwined in ouroperations that, since day one,

(46:51):
the score that you can give to atravel coordinator has never
gone beyond nine, right out of10.
And also of the experience,it's always been around nine,
which is outstanding for theindustry average, right?
And so we asked ourselves, okay, perfect, but we got to 100,000

(47:12):
re-orders in seven years.
This year we're probablyhitting one year.
So how are we going to copewith not becoming a mass tour
operator, right, so?
And providing mass experiences?
And so we came up withinnovation again, because we
kept on innovating ourselves andwe thought that the community

(47:35):
could be the propeller right, sothe enabler, of this innovation
once again, and we gave thepower to our community of travel
coordinators to create theexperiences on their own right.
So it's not just us designingthe experiences that I was
mentioning to you before, butit's directly the travel
coordinator that designs theexperience that our re-routers

(47:59):
are going to do.
So we launched this project Ithink it was one year and a half
ago and in the first six monthsof life we hit 8.6 million
revenues just out of the project, which basically consists in
enabling a travel coordinator todesign, put on our website,
negotiate services on our behalfand create the trip of their

(48:20):
dreams right.
In this way, we were able to hittwo targets One, retaining
travel coordinators that haveseen the world with us but still
they're missing fewdestinations that we didn't have
strategically in the plan,because you know it's okay to
maybe develop Antarctica, but Idon't invest one year of work in

(48:42):
developing Antarctica if I havejust one trip, but a
coordinator that has that as adream develop it gets his group,
it becomes the best ambassador,the happiest ambassador at the
same time, and we've been ableto expand our experiences
portfolio, giving the power tothe community.
On the other side, we were ableto retain those travel

(49:03):
coordinators that thought, okay,you know, I was a doctor, but
maybe this travel thing is mything.
I want to make it a job, right?
So, in this way, enablingpeople to create their own
experiences and propose it toother travel coordinators was
something that we spotted as abusiness opportunity.
So we created this sort ofcurated marketplace that we

(49:26):
called WeRodeX more or less likerelating to the TEDx concert,
right.
So this was also, I think,something very crucial in the
last couple of years to shapeour future, and right now,
thanks to this project, we'vebeen able to launch in one year,

(49:47):
more than 400 differentitineraries and we're close to
cover the whole world in termsof destinations where we wrote
as landed right.
So, also, like things like this, we could be pointed at crazy
people giving all the power inthe hands of others and taking

(50:08):
the responsibility as touroperators, but we literally
believe in the community power,the in humans.
Obviously we are veryentrepreneurial, so we take
obviously we take risks, butthese people have been you been
selected and have experiencedwhat we road means and how we
design trips, and they're thebest people to do the

(50:30):
experiences instead of us.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
It's fascinating.
It's such a clever concept andI think that many people
listening to this would havebeen familiar with Airbnb,
getting into experiences andinitially thinking that they
were going to crack this modeland all of a sudden, they would
be a major competitor.
And it hasn't worked out thatway at all.
I mean, they backed away fromit and they've recently launched
this icons product, and sothey're no longer really
actively in this space, despiteeveryone's concerns and fears

(50:55):
that all of a sudden, they weregoing to be this huge player in
group travel or alternativetravel options that would take
people away from group travel,since they were booking their
own accommodation and they mightjust book their own guide and
basically reverse engineer aguided trip.
We'll be right back.
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(53:02):
And now back to the show.
The other things that stood outto me when I was doing some
research and preparing for ourconversation was this idea of
community-driven model, whichhas not really been applied
successfully elsewhere.
I know there's always beenefforts to try and get feedback
and try and adapt product basedon traveler comments, but not to

(53:28):
the level where you actuallyhave coordinators designing and
offering their own itineraries.
And I think the part of thatthat's so clever is just that
the product experience isparamount, but specifically the
operational excellence, like thedelivery of that, but the
making sure that you're comingup with traveling concepts that
resonate with people andactually they ultimately enjoy

(53:50):
so building out thoseitineraries and giving them the
flexibility to designitineraries, because so often on
a group trip there are youmentioned this at the beginning
one of the pain points is thatyou kind of have a diverse group
with different interests andpeople are pulling in different
directions.
People want free time, otherpeople want to be told what to
do, people thought dinner wasincluded and you just kind of
see this dynamic between a groupif it's not cohesive it doesn't

(54:12):
gel well and that makes all thedifference.
You have a great guide and agreat group, you have a great
trip and obviously you're tryingto de-risk that by making sure
you have a great coordinatorwho's actively involved and the
trip can be customized to makesure that everyone has a great
experience.
So I think it's so clever andclearly why your business is
scaling so rapidly.
So it's so exciting to havethis conversation with you at

(54:33):
this stage, because you guys areat that point now where,
especially with the new funding,with your global expansion
plans, where the business is arocket ship like you're just
absolutely set to take offbecause you've got so many of
the foundational elements inplace.
And really now it's more aquestion, I would say, and I'm
keen to get your answer to thisbut it's more about getting the
word out about WeRoad, which I'msure is part of the reason

(54:54):
we're having this conversationis more people just actually
know the business and the brand.
So on that journey, one of thethings that I know you recently
acquired was the actual domainname, the com, and I'd love for
you to tell us that that was ajourney.
Yeah, tell us a little bitabout how that all came to be.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yeah, well, actually it started from, I think, day
one, but it actually was adomain that wasn't available,
right?
So I think it's aseven-year-long story, or
eight-year-long story, becauseit was owned, this domain, by an
old Japanese guy and it was sotough to retrieve it that at a

(55:33):
certain point also, our CPTOwent to Japan to see if the
company that initially owned thedomain was still alive or not,
or the host provider was stillalive or not.
So it took a lot of effort toget it, but finally this year we

(55:53):
made it, and the moment inwhich we got it was incredible
in terms of timing, because itcoincided with the launch of our
international trips, right?
So what better way thanlaunching international
cross-market trips than having acom website, right?
So what better way thanlaunching international
cross-market trips than having acom website, right?

(56:13):
So that was an incrediblemilestone achieved and it was a
team effort to retrieve that.
And I think also entrepreneursneed to think about these things
in the early days becauseotherwise it could become very,
very tough later down the lineright to to reach such such an

(56:33):
objective.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Absolutely Well.
So now you've got that domain,obviously it's an important step
in the overall growth plan.
So it's great that you havethecom finally and once and for
all, given your global expansionplans.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhere you are today and where
you're headed.
I know that I've read a coupleof articles leading up to our
conversation, just becauseobviously you brought an

(56:56):
executive from booking so we cantalk about him in a moment.
But your new CEO, which?
And then the funding rounds and, just so you know, andrea, the
new CEO.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yes, Andrea D'Amico.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yes, exactly, and you've already mentioned Fabio,
but I want to talk about theexpansion plans and where you
see, because I think the partthat probably took everyone's
turned heads was the idea thatyou could be the largest tour
operator in Europe formillennials, by 2025 or 2030.

(57:29):
But, nevertheless, it'shappening quickly.
Your growth is scalingsignificantly, so, yeah, so tell
us a bit about where you aretoday and some of those
expansion plans that you have inplace.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yes, super, super.
So it all started with thelaunch, let's say, of Spain in
the first place.
Started with the launch, let'ssay, of Spain in the first place
, when we internationalized theWeRoad and the objective there
was that of creating the marketfrom scratch.
You know, as we said in thevery early days and the
beginning of this chat together,there was no such a thing in

(58:04):
Spain either, and people thattraveled with other people that
they don't know were pointed atoh my God, you, you're a weirdo
kind of because you don't havefriends, right.
So we launched there, then inthe UK, then in France, then in
Germany, with the objective ofhaving the same vertical
internationalization strategyinto those markets, so planting

(58:27):
a seed that can go beyond atravel experience but can
literally become a localtraveler, passionate traveler
community, right?
So that's, I think, also why wegrew so fast, in spite of the
pandemic that was exactly in themiddle of the launching plans.
But because the need of, youknow, creating contacts and

(58:50):
connections between people ofour generation was amplified
after the pandemic, right.
So there was a big rebounce andin all the waves, let's say, of
the pandemic itself, we'vealways been able to grasp that
need, interpret it, to changedestinations in order not to
leave people alone.
Right so our mission wasliterally that of fighting
loneliness.
That need to be interpreted tochange destinations in order not

(59:11):
to leave people alone.
Right so our mission wasliterally that of fighting
loneliness across this year, andI think that's also why the
market responded so well,because it was literally
yearning and looking for it.
So there's always been at thebasis, let's say, this product,
this famous product market, fitat the ground basics of our
success.
So, right now, what we're doingis okay.

(59:31):
We've basicallyinternationalized across all the
major European markets.
Right, so we have our websitelocalized in all languages,
which is something that we thinkis paramount, not only to
obviously be understood byeverybody in those markets, but
also to create a relationshipwith the local millennial,
because imagine, like relatingto a website that talks your

(59:52):
language, that talks your slang,that uses your tone of voice,
which is something that we loveand we are fond of in our
marketing campaigns, in ourmarketing communications, and
relating it before a trip duringyour daily life right, so that
also was something strategicBuilding not just a tour

(01:00:13):
operator but mainly building abrand, and that's also why we do
a lot of events.
I think in Italy we did in oneyear, more than 1,000 events and
we had more than 20,000attendees in 2023.
So, basically, all for thepassengers.
We do just in events, right.
So things like this aren't verycommon, I would say, for a tour

(01:00:38):
operator or travel brand right,because they don't care about
those things.
But for us, given thatcommunity is at the center of
the internationalization and thelocalization strategy, it's
fundamental right.
So we have it since the very,let's say, early days in a new
community.
So what will happen next, afterhaving conquered, let's say, and

(01:00:59):
planted a seed into this market?
Obviously, the objective isthat of growing the volumes of
ReRodas traveling with us inthose markets to foster our
local presence in the key cities, with events, campaigns and
travel coordinators, at the sametime as a, let's say,

(01:01:20):
go-to-market strategy, but alsotesting out new markets without
a local presence.
That's the weroadcom, let's say, project that we have launched.
What does this mean?
It means opening up to peopleliving in Ireland, in the
Netherlands, in the Nordics, inthe Balkans, to travel with

(01:01:43):
English, let's say as a commonlanguage, right, but to travel
with international groups, whichis something, I think, a little
bit different than theinternational English-speaking
competition is doing becausethey're fishing mainly from the
US, new Zealand, australia andUK pond, let's say, whereas what

(01:02:04):
we are doing from the core ofEurope is fishing from those
countries which have beensomehow neglected right by the
radar of international grouptravel operators.
And I mean, I can tell you,like super spoilers, the first
booking coming through in thelast weeks, because it's a
matter of weeks, are coming fromthe Nordics, are coming from

(01:02:24):
Denmark, from Finland, fromSweden, from Ireland, from
Poland, right.
So all countries where wewanted to test out whether we
could be a solution for thelocal millennials as well,
before launching and venturinginto igniting a local community.

(01:02:46):
And we wanted also to proposethese sort of trips to our more
mature destiny, more maturemarkets.
Imagine an italian okay, one ofthe reasons traveling with other
italians is because our englishis crap.
Let's say it very, verytransparently, right, so?
So if you put an italian into,into maybe an international

(01:03:07):
group, they, they might struggleI mean, we might struggle,
right, sometimes, whereas thereare also Italians that travel
around the world.
We are the best migrants in theworld, let's say that.
Instead.
Have an international mindset,right, they are the Erasmus
generation, right?
So instead of traveling withother Italians.

(01:03:27):
They would love and yearn totravel with people coming from
other countries in Europe, right?
So this kind of trip maybewould enable us and our hope is
that it will enable us to gathera different target is not
targeted yet, right, which isliterally the Erasmus generation
across across Europe.
So let's see what will happenin the in the upcoming months.

(01:03:50):
But they say it's alreadysomehow promising and that's
good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Absolutely Well.
I was reading the latestarrival report.
Douglas and Bruce obviously runa rival.
I trust them implicitly, justobviously.
Douglas's background isresearch from Focusrite, so I
always read their reports andthe 2024 US TourTaker report
which came out at the start ofthe year, was fascinating
because it highlights one of themost important things related

(01:04:16):
to our conversation today isthat when they think about youth
travel, which is kind of the 18to 34 category that they
identified that adventuretraveler young travelers are
three times as likely to take anadventure travel trip, and then
they're also they also have ahigher interest in experiential
trips, culinary, and so clearlysome of the things that you

(01:04:37):
would be addressing by givingthe coordinators the opportunity
to kind of customize theitinerary.
So that's sort of one otheraspect.
I've talked a lot about that onour show with companies like
Dharma that have created tripsaround people's passion points
and like why they travel versuswhere, which I think is a really
compelling concept.
And so when you look at likethematic trips, like yoga

(01:04:59):
retreats or architecture, how doyou build those into trips, do
you?
Because I was looking at yourwebsite and I was seeing, like
obviously the trip trip typesthe 360 express beach safari,
northern lights, um.
So I was wondering how you getto some of those thematic, like
the yoga, as being one example,because clearly that's a big
industry unto itself, uh, doingyoga retreats, um.

(01:05:19):
But yeah, how do you decide onwhat themes to bring into your
trips and what themes to uh, um,to build into the marketing?

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
yes.
So I think that as a growthstrategy for a tour operator,
there are different ways totackle the thematic trip.
Let's say, world Big playerstend, maybe, to acquire a
smaller tour operator thatcovers this target, especially
because you know, the smallerthe niche, the more niche the

(01:05:46):
target, the higher thecompetency you need to have to
deliver an experience that isworth living and sharing, right?
So sometimes an acquisitioncould bring along both the
expertise and the consumer atthe same time, right.
But this is not how we operate,let's say, because we're kind
of, as we said before, communitydriven.

(01:06:08):
So our approach is more OK.
What does the community need?
What does the community request?
So we start always from rawdata about traffic, about trends
, about our travel coordinators.
At the same time, we put thisall together and we try to
suggest a potential thematictrip to our travel coordinator

(01:06:30):
community that can create themdirectly.
So, relating to the project ofWeRodeX that I was discussing
with you a few minutes ago,thematic trips is something that
we see as being key to thesuccess and the development of
the long tail of our experiences.
In that sense, right nowalready, I think we have 30% out
of the long tail of ourexperiences.
In that sense, right now,already, I think we have 30% out

(01:06:51):
of the itineraries created thatcould be labeled as thematic
because the person that createdthose itineraries is passionate
for that.
So we have diving themed trips,and we're not experts of diving
, but I can grant you that atleast there are 100 travel
coordinators that have a divinglicense right, and they can't

(01:07:13):
wait but organize their owndiving trip or the same thing.
We we did a few uh, a few weeksago, so my co-founder, which is
geek about architectures, wecreated a, an architecture
themed uh itinerary that'sfilled in like one week with
people passionate aboutarchitecture in south of france,
right.
So, um, this is our approachalso in tackling thematic,

(01:07:37):
thematic trips bottom up,completely, so literally
starting from from the target,and we think that this having
the market itself picking what,what they like is also the key
to success, but also the key tothe scalability of the project,
because it could be, you know,the focusing from providing all

(01:07:59):
other customers with incredibleexperience around the world if
we just focus on a niche,whereas in this way we're able
to do both things at the sametime and also fight mass tourism
, because imagine, um, one ofour biggest destination has
always been, since day one, Ithink, jordan right.
We've also been somehow, uhproudly, contributing to the

(01:08:23):
economic growth of jordan inthese, in these years, also
during the pandemic, workinghand in hand with the local
government, et cetera.
But as soon as you move acertain amount of people into a
destination, the risk ofbecoming mass is behind the
corner right.
So imagine having our travelcoordinator community finding
new twists, new itinerary, newpaths, new local providers that

(01:08:48):
we from Milan, from HQ, from ourinternal tour operator, don't
have, let's say, the time toinvest on all those aspects.
Well, this is exactly whatfight against mass tourism is
right and also, in terms ofimpact, is something that we can
be very proud of.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Yeah, well, to what you mentioned there, because two
things that stood out to me isthat you know what you are and
you know what you aren't, and Ithink those are equally
important.
So you've come to understandexactly what we wrote.
The success formula has been toscale this business.
And you're also clearly, as youjust pointed out, that you
don't run yoga retreats.
So you'll also clearly, as youjust pointed out, that you know

(01:09:30):
you're not, you don't run yogaretreats.
So, like you'll, you'll buildin the most relevant elements or
the themes that make the mostsense, because you're consumer
centric, you're traveler centricis, I guess, the way I would.
I would put it back to you, andthat's clearly the key to your
success.
So I got a couple otherquestions for you.
I know that we don't have hoursand hours, but I've got a
couple more questions.
I really wanted to ask you Gofor it Given the global

(01:09:51):
expansion plans and the latestSeries B raise.
I'm very keen to know, withbringing Andrea D'Amico into the
business, how that has workedwith the team and how you guys
now.
Is that bringing a certaincorporate element to the
business?
I'm assuming the answer isprobably going to be not, but I
mean, he's obviously hisbackground of booking.
What was kind of the reason tobring him in to help scale the

(01:10:12):
business globally?

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Yeah.
So I can tell you that we areallergic to the word corporate
internally, so we we fightcorporate life as well as
loneliness, I would say.
Bringing in Andrea wasespecially driven by the vision

(01:10:33):
that we have, as we wrote, ofbecoming like the biggest
operator out there for ourgeneration, for group travel
experiences right and buildingthe biggest travel community.
And, given his experiences, hewent through the same process
with Bookingcom.
So he entered the company whenthe size of Bookingcom was
exactly that we wrote right nowit was 100 employees more or
less and he brought Bookingcomto the size that he is right now

(01:10:56):
leading EMEA, so SMD, duringthe pandemic, right.
So with 1,500 people spreadacross all of Europe in all
different offices.
So he went through thick andthin in another company and his
experience was incredible,especially when we first worked
together, because obviously whenyou onboard a CEO from outside,

(01:11:20):
it could be amazing or it couldbe terrible in terms of match
right.
So it's a very tricky move ifyou don't find the right match.
So we started working togetherbased on consultancy, and the
consultancy wasinternationalization.
I was leading the internationalexpansion as director at the
time and I was in London in themiddle of the pandemic and one

(01:11:44):
of the first conversations wehad was incredible, because he
expanded so many differentmarkets in his career that for
the first time I had the chanceto talk with somebody that went
through the same challenges thatI was going through as a
first-timer, because, you know,as founders, you grow with the
company.
I mean, I did my first hire inWeRoad right so it was so.

(01:12:07):
So I think Right, so it was so.
So I think inspiring and at thesame time, helpful to have
somebody that can share hisexperience in not making certain
mistakes or taking certainstrategic decisions better than
we've done in the past.
So I immediately found itextremely, extremely powerful.

(01:12:28):
Imagine that he launched APACfor Bookingcom so things like
that, right.
Never been to Southeast Asia.
Boom Singapore, go for it.
Launch Bookingcom here right,so a guy from Rome.
So that was his story.
On top of that, I think anotherkey element was the fit in

(01:12:51):
terms of culture fit, I mean,with us and the, we can combine

(01:13:11):
both the expertise of somebodythat has run a business to the
scale of Bookendcom and threewild, innovative, out-of-the-box
thinking, community-drivenfounders.
That will enable us to always,at scale, keep the focus on
people and community andbuilding a cool brand at the

(01:13:33):
center of the growth strategy,right?
So this is the mixture, I wouldsay, of elements that right now
builds into a solid backgroundand pillar at WeRoad.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
No, he seems like a perfect fit and that's why I
wanted to ask about him,especially given the global
plans, and part of the reason Iwanted to touch on his story and
his journey at Bookingcom,because not only did he run the
Europe region and handledinternational expansion, but
also Bookingcom ultimatelybecame very successful in the US
market, which is for manytravel companies, kind of the
holy grail.

(01:14:09):
Everyone wants to eventuallycrack the US market right.
There's lots of opportunity togrow businesses in lots of
markets, but eventually at somepoint the conversation shifts to
when are you going to actuallygo into the US market?
Very successful business inareas where other what would be
competitors are eithernon-existent or underserved

(01:14:33):
because they're English languagetours, and so, looking at your
growth trajectory, I mean you'redouble doubling the business in
Italy, doubling the business inSpain.
You're growing in France.
Yeah, germany's another massivemarket, especially for Germans
traveling outbound.
I've spoken to a number ofpeople on this show that come
back even Destination Canada,talking about bringing Germans
to see the Northern Lights.

(01:14:54):
I know it's a big focus for myfriends at Tor Radar as well.
The German market they've movedinto and translated their
website, and so the Germanmarket is massive for guided
travel too.
So you have all of thesemarkets that you still have
major growth potential in, butat some point you can obviously
look at Australia, the US,canada.
So I'm curious to know wherethose more traditional adventure

(01:15:17):
travel markets fit on youroverall expansion plans.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
Yeah.
So I'd say that the strategyright now is that of focusing on
getting rest of Europe beforeleaping across the ocean, let's
say.
But at the same time, I have afeeling this is more a gut
feeling that our Italian, likerooted culture is very much

(01:15:40):
similar for a lot of aspects tothe American one, in terms of
approach, in terms of way ofthinking.
That, also, like the fact thatwe're bubbly, I think it's part
of the pie, both of us.
But, no jokes apart, I thinkthere might be also a fit there.

(01:16:03):
But before taking that leap,what is needed, I think, is a
different amount of capital,right?
Because at the same time, we'vebeen able to create what we've
been able to create in Europe,doing a lot with less the least
that we could ask for.
Right, to prove that we can besustainable, those economically,
I mean, our first market isalready profitable.
We're investing everything intothe growth of the other markets

(01:16:24):
.
So before venturing, I think,into those markets, you
literally would need to bothhave put at scale all your core
markets and maybe get a littlebit more money to build that up.
Why this?
Because we're not a B2Bbusiness, right?
That does I don't know a jointventure with a local distributor

(01:16:50):
of tours, whatever, but we're adirect to consumer brand, so
our objective is building abrand, and building a brand a
direct to consumer brand couldbe very expensive in terms of
marketing, uh investments right,so, uh, that's also one of the
reasons why we we haven'ttackled that, but definitely one
day or another, I think, wewill do the leap.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Yeah, no.
There's so much potential forWeRoad and it's such an exciting
time to have this conversationwith you.
A couple of things I want toask you, and then I'll let you
get back to continuing to scalethis exciting business.
In terms of the trade marketbecause you mentioned
direct-to-consumer, that's oneof the things I was keen to ask
you as well is that the youngerdemographic?

(01:17:36):
There's been this big focus ondirect-to-consumer, and are
travel agents relevant anymore?
What would be your view on that, given the business you run,
the market you serve, the typeof product that you offer Is
there a role for travel advisorsor trade and, if so, how are
you guys looking at that?

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Well, actually, I think we tested out across the
years distributing our trips viaagents, but not that much
because we thought that therewas like a double communication
with the end consumer and theexperience was scattered.
And a lot of the focus that weput in developing WeRoad was
also providing the best andcutting-edge digital experience

(01:18:20):
to our customers, to base ourgrowth also on a compelling,
cutting-edge website that coulddrive growth, as the big
companies in travel do right, soas Airbnb and Bukicom, for
example.
So relying on intermediarieswould mean not having such a

(01:18:41):
linear digital experience right,because at the end you purchase
something that is present onanother website and you don't
get it, et cetera, but ratherhave the digital experience
itself being part of the, theWeRoad experience, right.
So that also, I think it wasalso something that we
strategically put ahead in termsof priorities, versus like

(01:19:04):
maybe gaining more market sharewith a trade, let's say, deal.
So, also in terms of B2B, thestrategy is more like partnering
with brands, partnering withwelfare companies, partnering
with local, very, very muchlocal realities that could lead

(01:19:28):
us and be very much localizedinto the country, versus major
distributor or wholesaler oftrips.
So this is more or less was thestrategy up until now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Very exciting.
And then the other thing Iwanted to ask you about and, if
you don't mind me sharing Ericaone of the questions I wanted to
ask you to finish off, was whatyou're most excited and looking
forward to, uh, for we wrote inthe year ahead, but the part I
was going to mention, of course,which I hope you're okay with
sharing, is that you are alsoexpecting and you have your
first child on the way, when wewere catching up, uh, before

(01:20:03):
recording, sharing our storyabout being a lonely planet,
being unexpectedly expecting,and it was like the best
adventure that we've ever goneon was just throwing kids into
the mix.
And so, um, because oftentimeswhen you look at travel graphs
and when people travel, as soonas they have kids, they stop
traveling, and our mission andcommitment to each other and to
them was that we were not.
We were not going to stoptraveling.
We were going to take them withus everywhere we went and they

(01:20:26):
were just going to be part ofthe journey.
And so that was my and that'swhy I wanted to bring this in
because obviously you are sopassionate about running your
business.
You're now about to become amom and have your first child,
and that's going to be anamazing journey as well, but
clearly you're going to be ableto do both and be able to grow
this business and start a family.
So it's an exciting time tospeak to you for many reasons,

(01:20:47):
including that.
So I hope you don't mind mesharing that, but I, so I wanted
to ask what you're most lookingforward to, which is clearly.
That's why I had to put it outthere, because obviously that
has to be the most exciting, forsure.
But but in terms of work andeverything else you're focused
on, what are you looking forwardto?

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Actually, it's a launch of another community,
isn't it?
So I'll approach it as aninternational expansion plan.
Right, so with the same set ofyou know, gears and strategy and
and community support,definitely because they told me
that's fundamental to survive.
So I hope I've learned enoughout of community management to
be able to and venture in these,uh, in this, in this new

(01:21:22):
community.
No, but but jokes apart, Ithink that obviously it's not
the end of travel, I hope,because otherwise we're all lost
.
But rather I've seen across theyears I mean seven years, eight
years of business is a lotPeople that have worked in
WeRoad and that have beencommunity members and still are,
have changed their lives and,you know, becoming a family at a

(01:21:45):
certain point is also part of,uh, these, these life changes.
But we, we've never left alonepeople, obviously, uh that that
ventured into into this, uh,into this world.
We don't have yet, I would say,trips tailored, uh, tailored for
families, but we have loads ofour travel coordinators that
also are, um, parents, and Ithink the coolest bit is that

(01:22:08):
it's also a way for them to tobe individuals at the same time,
because the risk that I seesometimes, uh, is that of you
know, as you said, switcheverything else off, whereas I
think the biggest lesson that wecan give to the people that
will follow us in the history,right.
So kids and stuff is that I'mnot losing the individuality of

(01:22:30):
of people, right, and I thinkthat also like having a little
bit of your own space in in thefuture and maybe in a trip, and
it's also something paramount.
Uh, obviously, bringing themalong.
It's a different experience,right, but I would, I would go
for both and not not neglect oneor the other, because otherwise

(01:22:53):
, uh, you also, I think, educatethem in a way that they don't
think about themselves and theirwell-being as being paramount
for for a healthy growth and ahealthy family absolutely well.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
One of the women that I certainly learned a lot from
was Maureen Wheeler Tony andMaureen Wheeler, who ran A
Lonely Planet, and one of thesuggestions that she had she
wrote a book series or theypublished a book series about
traveling with children, becausesome of the best travel
experiences they ever had werewith their kids.
Like when they opened up theOakland office, they went to
travel for a couple of months inSouth America with their young

(01:23:28):
kids and they discovered that,unlike a backpack which can kind
of separate you from locals,with kids they play together at
the park and so it kind ofbrings cultures and people
together, even across languages.
And so she was a strongadvocate, as am I, for traveling
with kids, and but it has notreally been a commercial success
.
So that book series becausedespite the fact her, myself and

(01:23:51):
obviously yourself going to beincluded in this will remain
advocates for travel with youngfamilies.
So I would love nothing morethan for you guys to also break
the mold with that, that youguys actually create your
national expansion plan with acommunity.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Well, just wait for it.
You know it's going to happenat a certain point, so maybe not
with the WeWork brand.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
But definitely my other founder, paolo, is dead of
two.
Yeah, and you know, as I toldyou before at the beginning of
this interview, we growcommunities along with our
growth.
So at a certain point it'sgoing to happen Right now I
can't help you because I'm notan expert in that yet, but maybe
in a while, hopefully.
I will.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Well, there's one prediction that a colleague made
is that when Taylor Swift getspregnant, is that it's going to
set off a whole wave of a babyboom, and therefore there'll be
a lot of other young familieslooking to travel, and so the
timing could be perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Yeah, we'll get ready for the US launch With you
being able to get another, yeah.
That's what we would do.
You know Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Yep, perfect timing.
Well, I can't thank you enoughfor making time for this
conversation.
It's a thorough pleasure tomeet you, but also to really get
to know the WeRoad story.
So I think you know I found itincredibly inspiring and also
insightful in equal measure,because what you're onto is a

(01:25:18):
very successful business conceptthat will impact travelers
globally and ultimately improvepeople's lives.
I'm a big advocate for travelfor that exact reason, and so
you know, I'm very keen to seeyour continued growth and
success and and you've got anincredible story to share and I
really appreciate you taking thetime to share.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
Thanks a million for having me.
It was a pleasure to share withyou our story.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
Thanks so much for joining us on this latest
episode of travel trends,featuring Erica DeSanti from
WeRoad.
I hope you found her storyinspiring and it also helps you
navigate your journey in theworld of adventure travel.
Be sure to stay tuned for ournext two episodes in our deep
dive into adventure featuringSean Mulhern from One Life
Adventures and Travis Pittmanfrom Tour Radar as well.
Don't forget to subscribe to benotified when new episodes go

(01:26:03):
live of Travel Trends on Appleor Spotify, and make sure that
you are registered to follow uson Instagram, youtube and
LinkedIn so that you can see thelatest video clips and
highlights from these episodes.
Thanks again for joining us.
Until next time, safe travels.

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