Small Groups, Big Adventures with Michael Edwards, MD, Explore Worldwide

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Listen to the latest episode of our Guided Touring series, where Dan is joined by Michael Edwards, Managing Director at Explore Worldwide, to discuss the rising popularity of small group adventures. Michael shares why he calls this moment the “golden age” of small group travel and highlights how intimate group sizes (12-16 people) foster meaningful "micro-communities," delivering the connection and camaraderie so many crave today.

What You'll Learn:

• Why small groups are creating big travel impact
• How shared experiences foster instant community
• Explore’s approach to sustainability and responsible tourism
• Breaking down barriers to make adventure travel more inclusive
• The surprising truth about who today’s adventure travelers really are

This episode is packed with insights on how small group travel is evolving and why it’s more relevant than ever. Tune in now to learn how these adventures are redefining the way we explore the world.

👉 Listen to Small Groups, Big Adventures Now

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
the thing that I'd like to see change in the next
10 years and I hope we see thischange.
We're talking about this riseof small group travel, right,
and, but we're talking aboutbroadly, you know, middle class
english speaking generally, youknow, non, not particularly
diverse group of people going onthese trips and I would like to
see that change.
You know, I would like to seethat change.

(00:24):
I would like to think, in 10years' time, our style of travel
is not just open, but is a realoption for people from more
diverse cultures and languages.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian.
I'm excited to continue ourdeep dive into the world of
guided travel, and over the lastcouple of episodes we've heard
from Globus, we heard last weekfrom Colette and today we're
going to hear from an adventuretravel company, explore Now.
Explore Worldwide is based inLondon and run by Michael
Edwards, who I had the privilegeto work with at G Adventures.

(00:59):
He went on to Intrepid fromthere and so he is a real
adventure category expert, asyou'll hear from our discussion
today.
And I'm really looking forwardto this conversation because
we've also just launched ouradventure series in partnership
with our friends at theAdventure Travel and Trade
Association.
As most of our listeners know,we did a season four deep dive
into the world of adventure andShannon Stoll joined us for that

(01:21):
first conversation.
So we are producing a quarterlyseries together to continue to
focus on the world of adventuretravel.
So you can find out moreinformation about that at
TravelTransPodcastcom or atAdventureTravelbiz.
And our first episode just wentlive this week to celebrate
Earth Day, where we focused onsustainability and brought in

(01:42):
the CEO of Tourism Cares, GregTakahara.
So be sure to check that oneout.
And then the other mention,just before we kick off this
next episode of our adventureseries with Michael Edwards, is
that we are doing a series ofspotlight episodes, and one of
the things that we have heard alot from our listeners is they
want us to do even more timelyand topical news content to

(02:05):
highlight what's happening inthe travel industry, and so at
the beginning of each monthwe're going to have a special
spotlight that will kick off inMay, highlighting some of the
big developments that arehappening across our industry
and bringing various voices tothose conversations.
I'm certainly looking forwardto bringing those to life.
So this is where the feedbackthat we get from our listeners
is incredibly valuable to shapethe content.

(02:27):
So feel free to keep thosecoming, and you can always email
me directly, dan, attraveltrendspodcastcom, so look
out for some of those spotlightepisodes.
Of course, we also have ourpartnership with Forbes, a
travel guide rolling out at themoment.
We're just midway through our10-part series, the Leaders
Behind the Stars, so be sure tocheck those out every Thursday.
And then we're going tocontinue our spotlight episodes

(02:50):
with various executives,startups, destination spotlights
we have one coming up onColumbia shortly, and then we'll
be doing this quarterly seriesin partnership with ATTA.
And now, one other thing just tomention is that, as part of our
commitment to sending outupdates on what's happening
within the travel industry, wehave incredibly valuable for our

(03:10):
partners and our listeners tobe able to make business
decisions on, and one of them iswith our partner, flywire.
They just published a newreport on luxury travel trends.
You can go to flywirecom slashtravel trends and then just
check out their resources lookunder travel for luxury travel
report and I think you'll findthis immensely fascinating,
especially as it relates toguided travel, and next month

(03:32):
we're getting into rivercruising, and so there's some
really valuable insights fromtheir latest report on luxury
travel.
That's our friends at Flywire,so it's flywirecom slash travel
trends to find the luxury travelreport.
So it's flywirecom slash traveltrends to find the luxury
travel report.
And then my good friend, ianCumming, who runs Travel Massive
, is also partnered with Stay22,which is one of our continued
title sponsors, and theyactually just completed an

(03:53):
incredible report on the cratereconomy.
So huge credit to Ian andKatarina and the team at Travel
Massive, working with Remy andAndrew and the team at Stay22.
This report is gold.
There's so much valuableinsights in here.
As I saw Ian highlighted, oneof the main myths it dispels is
there's not just one type ofcreator.
There's many different types ofcreators within travel, so the

(04:15):
best way to find that would justbe go to travelmassivecom,
slash stay22, and you'll be ableto find that report, and then,
of course, we'll include linksin our newsletter and on our
social channels as well.
Now this episode is sponsored byour friends at Tour Optima and,
as you've heard over the courseof this series, I am an
investor in Tour Optima.
I work as an advisor closelywith Ben because I'm a huge

(04:38):
believer in this platform.
So any of you that are in theday tour or multi-day tour space
, if you wanna delight yourguests, keep them coming back,
you need to introduce a whitelabel app like Tour Optima, and
there's no comparison in my mindin the marketplace today.
I was not able to buildsomething like this in my time
working with many multi-day tourcompanies, and Ben introduced

(04:58):
me to this about two years ago,and instantly I realized what a
significant opportunity this was, which is why I decided to get
involved and Ben kindly agreedto sponsor this guided touring
series as they continue toexpand with large multi-day tour
global brands.
So to learn more information,check out touroptimacom or email
ben at touroptimacom.
We'll be right back.

(05:21):
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And now back to the show.
Now let's continue our guidedtravel series by focusing on
explore.
Now, explore has just opened anoffice in toronto for north

(07:47):
america, led by katie rocket andthe amazing team there, but
they are a global company, asyou'll hear, the third largest
adventure travel globally andmichael edwards was the ideal
person to bring in thisconversation to highlight
adventure travel and how explorestacks up in the world of
multi-day guided travel.
So let's welcome Michael intothe conversation.

(08:08):
Michael Edwards, great to speakto you again.
Thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Thanks, Dan.
It's great to be on.
Hopefully we can add some valueand I can certainly talk to you
about the joys of small grouptravel as part of that multi-day
touring mix.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, no, that's terrific, and clearly from that
introduction people got a bit ofsense of your background.
Obviously, we've workedtogether before and you're based
in London, of course, so that'swhere I'm finding you today.
So why don't you actually startoff and give everyone a brief
overview, from your perspective,of Explore worldwide?

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah.
So Explore has been around 43,44 years this year, so one
classic pioneer in the space,one of the big UK, uk, you know
owner operated back in the day,though that's no longer the case
.
So you go back 44 years, youknow owner operator.
Starts it pretty small, prettyniche, grows pretty quickly and
now sort of mature in the uk,very mature market for um

(08:59):
experiential small group travel,which explore led the.
We're still pretty big in ourspace and now growing globally
as well but we've really riddenthat wave of pioneering the
category to now seeing thematuration of that category and
us being hopefully quite a bigpart of that.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, no, it's an exciting time for this space and
given the trends that we bothare across in terms of the size
of the market and the expansionover the next five or 10 years,
which is obviously one of thereasons that we really wanted to
not only have this conversationbut do this deep dive into the
multi-day tour, which manypeople saw as kind of a fading
category.
But if anything and not only isthat undergoing a renaissance
we're seeing great growth andyou are kind of the third

(09:38):
largest small group adventuretour operator globally and
growing.
Tell everyone a little bitabout your background, though,
so I know we work together, buthow did you get into travel?
How did you specifically getinto adventure travel and then
ultimately take on this role atExplore?

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, like a lot of people in travel, you know it
wasn't a career pathway kind offloundering around the world,
enjoying being a participant in,you know, being a traveler
Found my way into in the goldfirst wave of digital.
Back, you know, back in thatfirst wave when the internet was
kind of being invented, managedto get myself a digital job,

(10:17):
and back then a digital job wasprobably a bit like an AI job or
a cryptocurrency job now quitea rare species so I managed to
get a job as the Flight CenterGlobal Digital Consultant,
whatever that meant, dan.
So it was a good place to be.
So that was my entry intotravel.
Flew around the worldpontificating around what

(10:39):
digital meant for a traditionalretailer this is going back
20-odd years now and thenthrough that I worked my way
into the adventure space, theexperiential space.
That small group thing was theone which really interested me
that most, that community minded, off the beaten track sort of
responsible travel type thing.
So through various roles I mademy way to G Adventures, you

(11:02):
know, based in very close tohome for you.
That's where we met Dan Threeor four years at G running the
UK European business, and thensix years at Intrepid and there
I ran the UK and Europe again,but my last role there was a
global chief officer, soresponsible for sales and
marketing and digital globally.

(11:23):
A really great time, responsiblefor sales and marketing and
digital globally A really greattime really seeing how a company
grows from being sort of aspecialist to a mainstream brand
and now you know what's fastbecoming probably a household
brand and I thoroughly expect itto be in the next couple of
years and also through thatperiod where becoming a B Corp
became more prevalent and moreimportant, that notion of being

(11:45):
a purpose-led business.
And through that I found my wayto explore so it's fair to say,
explore fantastic business,great legacy.
But it perhaps hadn't grown assignificantly, as substantially
as maybe the G Adventures or theIntrepids of this world, but it
had all the capability to do so.
So I came in kind of a remit togive it that identity, give it

(12:06):
a global footprint and reallytake it through.
What I see is, over the nextmaybe three to five, even longer
, I'd call a bit of a golden agefor small group travel.
You know, um some you could, wecould have talked about.
Will it be a narrowing category?
Well, I see it as a bit of agolden age for the category for
a number of reasons, so I feellike I'm well placed to take

(12:27):
explore on the next.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Whatever 43 years looks like yeah, I definitely
agree, having known you, workedwith you and also, I mean,
clearly, explore is very luckyto have you leading that brand
globally for a couple of reasons.
You know you just highlightedyour background with two of the
major players, but also beingbased in the uk market.
You know, obviously I I'm basedin Toronto and there's the
major English language marketsAustralia, new Zealand, the US,
canada, even South Africa.

(12:49):
There is, you know, huge growthto be had in those markets.
But the UK specifically, becauseI know that and it's some of
the things I want to get into interms of the different markets
and where you're seeing growth,having you based in London,
because one of the things as Iunderstand, one of the things as
I understand, katie Rocket,who's heads up North America for
you, who is a friend of mine aswell, and she's based here in

(13:09):
Toronto, and obviously you guysare expanding globally.
But you've got a great strengthin the UK and in Europe with
your brand.
But there is still massiveopportunity for you to grow that
brand globally.
But before we get into that, Iwant to highlight, from your
perspective, this golden age andwhy you see it occurring.

(13:31):
So, if we think about adventure, travel or the rise of small
group tours.
What are you specificallyseeing as the reason for the
surge in activity and thisgolden age?
What are the things that havestood out to you that you've
positioned this business toexpand and grow?

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, I think there's probably three or four core
points.
I've never actually writtenthese down, but I think if I
look at it, I'll analyze it,having been in this space for a
long time.
I think there's kind of aconvergence of three or four
things happening at the moment.
One is and it's not the mainfeature, but it's definitely an
important one is this notion ofresponsible travel.
You know, climate change doingtravel in a way that's less

(14:08):
carbon intensive and, similarly,is beneficial for the
communities in which it travels.
So that notion of purpose ledtravel.
I don't think it's the primaryreason, but I do think it's the
reason that it makes this typeof travel attractive for an
increasingly broad group ofpeople.
I think the pandemic, as awfulas it was, really sharpened the

(14:30):
mind around valuing our freedomsand valuing experiences, and I
think a lot of people came outof the pandemic who maybe hadn't
done this style of travelbefore and saw it as a great way
to I hate the phrase, butreally get into those, you know,
those not waiting, sittingaround to do some of those
bucket list experiences you know, the machu picchus and the taj

(14:53):
mahal's or the antarcticas, andsmall groups offers a very good
entry point for that.
You travel with other people, um, you're led, you don't have to
do all of the research yourself.
It's very safe.
Uh, in terms of that perceptionof maybe traveling on your own,
particularly for a first timeor a less experienced traveler,
the notion of having a tourleader who knows the region

(15:15):
really well and can get you offthe beaten track and into those
sort of those experiences thatmay be harder to find on your
own and really enhance the trip.
I think the third one is a bitmore intangible, but it's this
idea of community that may beharder to find on your own and
really enhance the trip.
I think the third one is a bitmore intangible, but it's this
idea of community, I think,people in an increasingly

(15:39):
fragmented world where the lensof social media is pretty
prevalent but can also be a bitoverwhelming for people.
It seems like everyone's outthere having a great time, but
you wouldn't know, right,because we're all watching it
behind our screens individually.
So this idea of community,bringing community to life, and
I think that's what small groupsdo.
For a week, 10 days, 14 days,you're with 12 to 14 other

(16:02):
travelers, like-minded people.
It's what I would call call.
I've kind of coined this phrasethat we're using internally.
What we offer is, you knowmicro communities for a couple
of weeks, you know, you join 12people.
They may come from a slightlydifferent background than you,
slightly different age, but theyshare a similar thing they want
to connect with the planet.
They want to see, have amazingexperiences.

(16:22):
They probably have some degreeof wanting to travel in a more
responsible car, less carbonintensive way.
They probably want to do somegood or ensure that their
tourist dollars do some good inthe communities in which they
travel.
But, most importantly, theylike being part of a community
that is experiencing somethingtogether, rather than through
the isolation of sharing it onlyby yourself, through the medium

(16:46):
of your tablet or your phone orwhatever, so that one's a bit
intangible.
But I think it's a reallystrong factor.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
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Now back to the show.
Well, let's talk about thatsmall group element, because

(19:44):
clearly we share a passion forthat travel style and the brands
we've highlighted and we'veboth worked with in the past.
There is a commonality in termsof the idea that, rather than
being on a large coach with 50plus people, where some of these
brands are maximizing yield andtherefore trying to make sure
these coaches are operating full, there are, of course,

(20:04):
operators that still operatecoaches but fill them to half
capacity or often more premiumoptions.
You know, it was interestingwhen I spoke to James Thornton
obviously you know James wellfrom Intrepid and I asked him is
there any interest of Intrepidgetting into coach tours?
And he said absolutely not yeah,exactly, One of our partners on
our podcast is Collette, agreat company.

(20:26):
They actually they've seen asignificant growth in small
group.
It's literally like up 70% yearover year, and so some of those
companies have been able tosuccessfully reinvent themselves
or expand into categories tointroduce small group, to
successfully reinvent themselvesor expand into categories to
introduce small group, given youknow it so well and you were
just highlighting that thesesmall groups are essentially a
tribe that travels together.

(20:47):
Tell everyone, because a numberof our listeners, I'm sure in
this series are maybe familiarwith the multi-day tour market,
as you and I can both agree,there's probably not a great
terminology for this category.
Of course TourRadar calls itorganized adventures.
Everyone has a slightlydifferent and it's not just
purely adventure travel.
But tell us a little bit moreabout small group itself just to

(21:09):
give us an overview of thatexperience from your point of
view and why you think.
Obviously you've mentionedsustainability.
There is still significantgrowth to be had, especially for
50 plus travelers, because Iknow you've introduced some new
premium options as well.
So, yeah, take everyone through.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah look, and it's.
I'm not surprised.
James gave that answer and Ican categorically give you the
same answer, because we believethat the small group experience
is the optimal one for a numberof reasons and I'll try and
break this down.
Firstly, you're with a group, arelatively small group of
people 12, 14, 16, maybe max 16on most trips and you're there

(21:48):
for maybe a week or two.
That gives you time to get toknow people pretty deeply, right
?
Whereas if you're with 50people, you might get to know a
few people, but it's a bitlimiting.
Similarly, can be a bitoverwhelming.
You might get some servicelevel relationships built in
those couple of weeks, but with16 people guided by a tour
leader, you are.

(22:08):
It's pretty intimate, theexperience is pretty intimate.
You spend a lot of timetogether.
As I say, you probably havesimilar interests or curiosities
about the world.
So by its very nature it lendsitself well to that dynamic,
that small tribe that you talkto, you know and people like you
know, by and large people likebeing part of a tribe, right?
It's a sense of place, sense ofcommunity, sense of belonging,

(22:31):
and I think we provide that.
I think the other thing smallgroups do is make the world very
accessible.
You know if the logistics ofonce you you got to those 50s or
bigger numbers, you know, canyou go to that small local
restaurant?
Can it facilitate serving 50people at a sitting?
Is it good for that communityto have that kind of tourism go

(22:53):
through it so you can get tosmaller places, you can get to
more intimate places.
It just gives you more agilityto if there's something new and
we give our tour leaderslatitude if there are new
experiences.
You know, asking 50 people todo a slight detour because this
amazing new restaurant or thisceramics workshop is open, very

(23:14):
hard to get 50 people to.
You know the consensus of 50people is pretty hard to reach.
12, 14 travelers with prettysimilar views and interests.
Pretty easy to have thatadaptability and I think people
like that.
It really does.
You know that off the beatentrack are you ever really off
the beaten track these days?
Probably only in fairly extremecircumstances.
But you can still have veryunique experiences in very

(23:37):
familiar places if you've gotthe ability and the knowledge to
get to those places.
And I think it lends itselfreally well to that and I think
in the past this notion of smallgroup has been a little bit.
It's all about the destinationand not about the accommodation
or the way you travel, and Ithink that's changed.
You know, people want betteraccommodation and they want

(24:01):
better modes of travel and morecomfortable vehicles, but they
still want to have that samevisceral sort of immersion into
people and place.
But we've recognized, as thecategory goes, we do have to
cater to people's travel needs.
You know we that's youmentioned earlier we've
introduced an upgraded range soyou can do any most of our tours

(24:21):
or any growing number of toursin, you know, slightly more
upgraded, more comfortableaccommodations.
So our category is movingtowards I think the traveler's
moving towards us and we'removing towards that traveler in
some way so that we can cater tomake the category more
accessible for people.
But I think it's that realcommunity aspect and that
agility and ability to get intoa place, to into people in place

(24:46):
in a way that you just can't doin a big group.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, and obviously one of the reasons I'm a big
advocate is that part of whatyou described, that sense of
community.
And if you were to close youreyes and open them again and be
on an explore trip and lookaround at your group, describe
to us the type of individualsthat are attracted to the small
group in your instance, I mean Iand just as a caveat to you, I

(25:10):
was asking James kind of asimilar question about the
demographics is, most peoplethink adventure it's 20 or 30
somethings and you know hisnumber one category is like a
45-year-old solo female and thena 60-plus couple and the third
audience for them so it'ssomething that are 20 or 30
somethings.
And also something that I'msure you'll agree with is much
more of a psychographic than ademographic is that even though

(25:33):
there may be an age differencebetween some of your guests, the
reality is that they are allseeking a similar experience,
cultural immersion, and I alwaysfind it amazing that a
25-year-old gets along with a60-year-old on these trips and
you develop really fascinatingfriendships and have really
thoughtful discussions.

(25:54):
That's one of the things thatalways stood out to me, that
range of people.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Dan, you've summarizedized it really well,
and sometimes a phrase feelslike a you know, a marketing
term or a piece of terminology,but in this case it's not.
It definitely is a psychographic, not a demographic you know, we
probably index around the ageof about 57, but we we think of
our sweet spot as between 40 and60.
We've got some, you know,people up the younger 40, and

(26:19):
certainly people the older sideof 60.
But what brings them togetheris that shared desire to see the
world with fellow curious,like-minded people, and age is
not a barrier to that, in myopinion, and I see it time and
time again.
I've traveled widely on ourtrips, on competitor trips and
in previous roles.
I've traveled widely on ourtrips on competitor trips and in

(26:40):
previous roles and you see,that makeup.
I don't think I've been on atrip where you haven't had in a
group of people somebody at thatyounger age spectrum and
somebody at that older spectrum.
And you don't get manyopportunities in the real world
to have those sharedrelationships.
In a work world,stereotypically, you know, know
an older person is more likelyto be your boss or your.

(27:00):
You know it is common groundwhere you're there for a common
reason, and you know you putpeople together out in a, in an
environment in which they're allsharing a similar thing.
Then it breaks down thosebarriers and that dynamic is
incredible to see.
So you said, if I close my eyesand what would I see to see.
So you said, if I closed myeyes and what would I see?
I would see, you know, I wouldsee.

(27:22):
We again lots of female solotravelers, and I think let's
just break down solo becauseit's an interesting one.
Um, there's safety reasons andthe you know, traveling in a
group is, uh, is safer orperceived to be safe from those
things.
But what we're seeing with solotravels, in particular female
solo travelers it's not thatperhaps stereotype, hackneyed

(27:44):
notion of people are on theirown so they need to find other
people to travel with.
It's that they maybe havelifestyle differences or time in
their life that's differentthan their friends or family.
You know, we get lots of solotravelers who are married or in
relationships or they havepartners.
They just have differentinterests.
Or you know those 20s or 30syou remember your 20s, 30s.

(28:05):
We travel with our friends,right?
But increasingly, as you getolder, your friends aren't
always available at the sametime as you, right?
So a small group offers anentry point into being able to
do something that you don't wantto wait for others to be
available for, knowing that youwill probably travel with
somebody that you're going toget on with and with that small

(28:25):
tribe of people.
So I think that's why we'reseeing a huge rise in solo
travel.
People certainly post-pandemicpeople just don't want to wait
for these experiences, right, we?
If you have your freedomscurtailed for a couple of years,
you really value your freedomswhen you get them back, and
people want to maximize theirtime.
I don't know how long that'sgoing to last, but I'm not

(28:47):
seeing any end to that.
I feel it in myself.
You know, I want to make mostof every minute I've got because
, um, we've never my generationhas certainly never had their
freedoms curtailed before, andand it was a real eye-opener-
yeah, for sure, and I think it'sa 10-year horizon, given
demographic factors, but giventhe global nature of your
business, where are you seeingthe growth?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
And clearly, I mean obviously we're talking mainly
about English language markets,since it's primarily English
language tours but where are youseeing the growth in 2025?
What are the markets that arestanding out to you or that
you're prioritizing, that youthink have the greatest
potential for growth inadventure, travel and for
explore?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, it'd be fascinating to have this
conversation in 10 years becauseI suspect the world will have
changed hugely, particularly inthis space.
But right now, look, and I makeno bones about it, we're a UK
business, that's our base andthat's where we've been and we
hadn't done such a good job,particularly given how
passionate we are about ourstyle of travel, of expanding
into other markets.
You know we'd had some GSAarrangements, so we are very

(29:51):
focused on North America andAustralasia at the moment, and
the reason for that is inAustralia.
It's a very mature market forour type of travel.
They get it.
Australians and New Zealandersare comfortable traveling LA and
you don't have the languagebarriers.
You know that commonality.
I think there will be anopportunity for bringing other

(30:14):
languages in or running tours inother languages, and we can
maybe touch on that in a minute.
And the second one is NorthAmerica, because I think it's
not just the size of the market.
You always talk about marketopportunity size.
You've still got to have theright product and the right
marketing strategy and the rightprice point.
So it's not the size of themarket.
I think it's the readiness ofthe market to embrace this style

(30:35):
of travel.
I think Canadians and sorry ifI offend anyone who might be
listening I think Canadians havemaybe been on this journey a
bit longer than North Americans.
I'm generalising a bit, but Ithink Canadians have travelled a
bit more in this style, morethan North Americans.
Apologies to those NorthAmericans that get it, and do it
.
We love you and we enjoy havingyou on our tours.

(30:58):
But I think in North Americawe're seeing a real
understanding of this being aviable travel option, that small
group, you know it's a greatway to get out and see the world
and I think there is a shifttowards this style of travel and
understanding of it and it'sbeen trailblazed by some of our
competitors, and that's you know.

(31:24):
But the category, I think, hasgot lots of headroom for a few
more operators, particularlythose who've been doing it for
some time, who are passionateabout it and can offer really
good product and authenticityaround their purpose-led piece.
So, but then, beyond that, I dosee Europe and then
increasingly parts of Asia andSouth America.
You know it's just that youhave to choose your markets and
your growth strategies.
You know you have to be fairlydisciplined around those, but I
can certainly see a time wherewe will move into other markets.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well, tell us.
Then, there's two aspects tothis, of course.
There's your source market andthen there's the destinations
you're sending them to, and youknow we've talked before that
you know G Adventures focused on, you know, peru and South
America, and Intrepid.
When the world was kind ofalmost divided in half, they
were focused on Southeast Asia.
Clearly, both are global.
Remind us where Explorer gottheir start.

(32:08):
In terms of the destinationsyou're primarily focused on,
obviously, you talked aboutbeing a UK-centric company,
given your history, but yeah,what were the destinations you
were primarily sending travelersto?
And I guess, what are your coremarkets?
That you are is where themajority of your bookings happen
.
And then, where else are youseeing growth?
Where else are you expanding to?
Because I know you've got anumber of new trips for 2025.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, I mean back 43 years ago we were that classic
English travel.
You know there was lots ofIndia and Pakistan and you know
those kind of places that havealways been kind of pioneer
travel places for the British.
And then, as we sort ofperfected the model or improved
on the model and more customersunderstood it, we branched out.

(32:51):
So, like most companies, wepretty much travel everywhere.
Now.
You know any given yearprobably about, you know between
four and six hundred differenttours or tour type variations of
tours, and there's, there's we.
We cover most of the globe.
We've always kept a bit of apioneering spirit.
We we always look to get backinto a destination if that

(33:11):
destination's not been, um, youhaven't been able to travel
there for a while.
Or we want to pioneer newdestinations, knowing that you
probably won't get that volumeof travelers, but you'll get
that pioneering spirit oftraveler that remains true to
the dna of the business and trueto the dna of the spirit of the
type of traveler that we'vealways attracted, you know.

(33:32):
So saudi arabia is a greatexample.
You can debate the politics ofsaudi arabia till um the cows
come home and, like most of ourus in this space, we believe
travel opens up.
So we don't look at thepolitics, we think it's a bridge
.
You know, it's a bit of anantidote to some of those things
.
So we launched Saudi Arabia acouple of years ago, probably
the first operator of our sortof size to get back into Saudi

(33:53):
Arabia, and it's been a bigseller for us, one of our best
sellers and, interestingly, abig seller out of North America.
It jumped into our top five atthe end of last year for North
American travelers and I thinkthat's because, you know, lots
is written about it or has beenwritten about it, but very

(34:14):
little is known by the actualtraveler, right?
So anywhere you have adestination like that, where
there's still a sense of what'sit really like, sense of wonder,
I want to see it for myself.
That that perception gap andbeing having the ability to go
in there and see it for yourself, those places always remain
fascinating for people.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
Obviously, we talked a bitabout the markets that you are
focused on, a little bit aboutsome of the destinations and
some detail, obviously, smallgroup adventures themselves.
The part I would love tounderstand that I don't familiar
with with Explore even thoughwe've known each other well I'm
familiar with the brand is howyou sell the difference of
Explore versus other adventuretravel companies or other

(34:56):
multi-day tour companies.
Clearly, there's a hugedifference between small group
and coach and there is a marketfor coach.
I mean, obviously there stillis a large market for coach
tours, right, yeah, there is.
When you are positioningExplore against all of those
competitors and trying toconvince people to take an
Explore trip, what are, I guess,your USPs, your unique selling
proposition?
I mean, I've gone through thewebsite so I have an instinct,

(35:20):
but I really would love to hearit from you what is the
difference?
How do you sell the differenceon Explore?

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Look, I'd love to sit here and tell you there were 10
distinct differences, dan.
But what I will say is, if youlook at the three or four bigger
players Arsene, intrepid and Gand Exodus we do do pretty
similar stuff, right, but we'vebeen small companies right In
the grand.
If you look at us as a categorywithin travel, we still are
relatively small, certainlygetting bigger and the likes of

(35:48):
Intrepid doing a great job ofturning, you know, becoming a
mainstream business.
So it's been small.
So it's not surprising that wedo similar things right, because
we've grown the market togetherand because we're all so
passionate about what we do.
And you know you can, every,every business owner or business
leader will come on here andtell you they're passionate

(36:08):
about their business.
But there are there are nobusinesses I've worked in where
the people that design, build,operate, run, market the product
are as passionate about thething that they sell.
So there's a shared passion inthe industry.
So your differences really comedown to you know, perhaps those
things were in their companyDNA.
So for us it was always thatpioneer spirit.
So we'll always perhaps put onthose pioneer destinations.

(36:31):
They won't be the core of ourbusiness and they won't bring
home the majority of our revenue, but we'll always seek to do
the Saudi Arabias and thePakistans and the Togo's and the
I'd love to get trips to, youknow, papua New Guinea.
It's not going to happenanytime soon, but we've always
got the team looking to get backinto or discover those places
that feel like you're really,really discovering something for

(36:52):
the first time.
I think the second one is we wedon't perhaps with that
psychographic thing, we doreally stay sort of closer to
our 40 to 60 range.
We welcome travelers eitherside of that, but we're not
trying to play every age groupon the spectrum, so there's
maybe a clearer sense to atraveler that explore might be a

(37:13):
bit suitable for me.
So if I'm 50, I'm going to bewith some 40 year olds, I'm
going to be with some 60 yearolds and a few people either
side of that, but it is going tobe with some 60-year-olds and a
few people either side of that.
But it is going to be aslightly narrower demographic
but still pretty broad, whereasmost of our competitors have
something in the younger rangeand something in that older
range and where we're saying andthen the differentiation I

(37:34):
think comes down to we prideourselves on service.
You know, you've always got ahuman when you speak to us.
That's true of most of thecompanies in our space.
But having done it for 43 years, I think that's one of the
things that sets us apart.
But I would be wrong and I'veworked for those businesses and
they're all great businesses.
I like that there aren't hugedifferences, because this is the
style of travel we believe inand this is the style of travel

(37:57):
we would like people to take inthe future, right?
We think it's good for theplanet, we think it's good for
the communities in which wetravel, so I don't mind that
there's a bit of overlap in whatwe do at this particular point
in time.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, what I found interesting when you mentioned,
like, the four reasons,initially about Explore.
You mentioned about responsibletravel, yeah, and I wanted to
dive into that a bit further,just in terms of clarifying for
our listeners or potentialcustomers or travel advisors
that might be selling Explore,how important that is and then
how you deliver on that, becauseit's always the question of,
like, how sustainable is thisstyle of travel?

(38:31):
You know people have to fly todestinations, so I'm keen to
know Explore's approach tosustainability and responsible
travel.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah and look.
Sustainability, responsibletravel it's a much used,
possibly misunderstood ormiscommunicated word in some
ways, and we see it in two ways.
So sustainable and responsibleI'll come to the carbon bit and
climate stuff.
Second, because that's theharder bit, obviously.
So, from a responsible,sustainable environment, we

(38:59):
genuinely believe that by takingsmall numbers of people to
communities, keeping that moneyin the markets in which we
travel, keeping it close tothose communities, not spending,
trying not to spend it onmultinationals supporting people
and projects where we go,that's sustainability.
You know, tourism is, as we allknow, a massive part ofp, for

(39:21):
particularly in lots of thesedeveloping countries, so you can
do some real good in terms ofbringing people in a in a
responsible way through thosedestinations.
The flip side, and the sidethat gets the most attention, is
, you know, we sell tours inevery country in the world and
most of them need a long haulflight to get there right, and
you cannot shy away from that inany way, shape or form, and

(39:42):
that problem has not been solved.
But we take it on board.
We don't want people to nottravel.
Dan, I grew up in thatgeneration where it was
relatively easy to travel, so Itraveled a lot and it helped me
form who I am as a person andhow I think about the world and
how I raised my daughter, andit's been nothing but beneficial
.
But I do recognize every time Iget on a plane, I'm emitting
carbon into the air and I thinkcarefully about how many times I

(40:05):
do that and how far I go andhow frequently I do it.
So what do we do?
We do everything we can,without necessarily being able
to solve the elephant in theroom, which is, ultimately, we
don't yet have planes that aresustainable, or policies or
whatever they are governancearound ensuring that the

(40:31):
airlines are forced to do morethan they're doing now.
So what we do is, in a simplesense, every tour we run, we try
and decrease the carbonintensity per passenger every
year, and that will be throughuh, with the supply chain,
making sure the hotels havecertain practices around waste
and water, plastics, etc.

(40:52):
The transport we use, moving tomore hybrid coaches and electric
coaches in the future, and thenobviously the big one is
internal flights A lot of ourhistorically a lot of internal
flights on our trips.
So we've removed hundreds ofthose in the last few years.
So we have a carbon intensityscore.
It's.
You know we work with anexternal partner.

(41:13):
I think we were one of thefirst, if not the first, to
carbon label every single tripand be transparent about that
and work with you know, withscientific targets and have that
audited.
And so that's part of our KPIsinternally.
Part of my bonus, for example,is based on that.
It's not just about profit forus.
If I don't bring down thecarbon intensity per passenger

(41:35):
on our trips in some way, I'mnot meeting my KPIs and I don't
get remunerated as well as Iwould have done if I don't
achieve those goals.
So it's riven through the wholebusiness.
So all of my management teamare also aligned to those
targets.
And then the other thing iswe'll try new things.
We've moved from offsetting tosort of investing in carbon

(41:56):
capture projects.
We don't think offsetting isthe way to go anymore.
So our business has spent abouttwo hundred and fifty thousand
last year that's UK pounds onworking with climate dot com on
carbon capture projects.
We now give our customers theability to buy sustainable

(42:16):
aviation fuels, safs.
We don't think any of thesethings are magic bullets, dan,
and we'll get some of them wrongand we might have, but we will
try explore every avenue to dotwo things.
One is keep travel alive forpeople, because we genuinely
have a fundamental belief thatit enriches you in a person and

(42:38):
makes you think about the worldin a different way.
That can only be beneficial tothis sustainability debate down
the track.
And secondly, we genuinelybelieve us and other companies
are really contributing to thosecommunities in which we travel.
And if we pull back on all ofthat, nobody wins.
You know we may all lose.
Who knows right?
Yeah, absolutely.
But we give it every shot tomaintain that wonder of travel

(43:00):
and the good that it does forthe places in which we travel to
.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, it's interesting, I didn't realize
that your incentive scheme wasalso based on sustainability.
That's actually fascinating toknow because I mean, that's
where getting to the root of it,like how committed are these
companies to delivering againstthis?
So I'm glad you actually youcalled that out, because I think
that's what travelers reallyunderstand about the tour
operators that they're choosing.

(43:23):
So I appreciate yourperspective on sustainability.
I guess the part I'm also keento understand is the.
You know we talked a little bitabout the destinations you go
to, and I know you have youmentioned Saudi Arabia, one of
the ones I didn't realize youhad such a great strength in
Africa.
I know you have Ghana trips nowand even Togo, which is really
fascinating, like Western Africabut parts of the world that I

(43:44):
think maybe it's the case thatyou have British travelers that
are more interested in going tothose destinations and hopefully
more Americans or NorthAmericans or Australians as well
.
But yeah, tell us about, Iguess, some of those unique
itineraries that you offer, likewhat's new for 2025.
And the other thing.
I'm also keen to get your takeon is one thing I've I've seen
working closely with ATTA uh,and being at their event last

(44:06):
year is like this huge rise incycling travel, like this people
pursuing hiking and cycling itjust seems to be like there's an
insatiable demand.
So it's, you know, you're oftenfinding these new destinations
because there's great cyclepaths or great, uh, hiking.
So yeah, Tell us about some ofthe new trips, I guess I'd like

(44:27):
to think some of the cyclinggrowth is mirrored in pelotons.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
I'd like to think it was real cycling than sort of
cycling in your living roomduring a pandemic yeah, well,
actually just I.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I have to quickly say on that point, michael, the
part that actually really mademe laugh when I was learning
about all these cycling tripstaking off.
The reason for it is becauseit's electric bikes, right.
So, it's more of a pleasurecruise now than it is.
You know, the Tour de France.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
You still pedal, man, you still pedal.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
You look like you're cycling.
A few of these operators thathighlighted to me is that it
opens up a lot of people thatwouldn't otherwise consider a
cycling tour.
So that's obvious, yes, but italso it means you can travel
greater distances over thecourse of a day.
It does.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
The point you make there about cycling and
accessibility is actuallysimilarly true for something
like Africa as a destination.
Right, it is aboutaccessibility.
So let's come back to theAfrica thing.
I'm fascinated by WesternAfrica.
It's never had a huge volume oftravelers and there's been
logistical issues in the pastLots of visa requirements,
infrastructure, flight, directflights, indirect flights.

(45:31):
It's been a hard place to travelto and it has been some
instability in some of thosecountries not all of them, but
lots of visa changes, lots oflogistical changes, lots of
regime changes, airlines notnecessarily committing to having
routes in their frequency andvolume, so and that's an
accessibility thing.
So when you find it, when youwant to be a bit more of a

(45:52):
pioneer, you've got to have,you've got to kind of overcome
some of those logistical thingsand do the work to make it
accessible for people.
Do the work to make itaccessible for people and
hopefully you pioneer thosedestinations to a degree that
you help support theinfrastructure, the
understanding of tourism and theimportance that it can bring
and some of those barriers startto move away.
And we've seen that in otherparts of.

(46:14):
Africa and you know, even areally well-touristed country in
Morocco 20 years ago doesn'tsee anything like this.
So tourism has partly driventhose infrastructure changes and
those accessibility things andwe'd like to think the same
could happen in some of thoseless frequently visited parts of
the world.
So hopefully we can lead theway in making a bit more

(46:35):
accessible.
Ethiopia is a great example,you know.
It's a really populardestination for us and it's a
lot more accessible.
Rwanda is another one that'sbecoming really popular and
fastener.
I personally haven't been.
Everything I hear from ourproduct team and the guys that
have been just an amazing place.
All these places are right so,but it's that accessibility
thing.
So, similarly with cycling,electric bikes have made it more

(46:58):
that style of travel moreaccessible for more people.
There is, in my opinion, therearen't many better ways.
You know there's two ways.
I think I'm a cyclist from wayback, cycled halfway around the
world.
There's two ways I like seeingthe world.
It's from a train, becauseyou're traveling through a
community, you're traveling withpeople from that country.

(47:19):
It gets you into the heart of atown or a village and you feel
a sense of travel.
When you're traveling withpeople from that country, it
gets you into the heart of atown or a village and you feel a
sense of travel.
When you're doing it, similarlywith cycling, you know you've
got no barrier, you're, you'repropelling yourself, you're out
in the open air and you'regetting from a to b under your
own steam, albeit supported by alittle bit of electricity these
days.
So I think that's, that's takenaway the barrier for people.

(47:41):
And then people do it for thefirst time.
They experience the electric.
Not everyone travels on anelectric bike.
You sometimes get the choice,but if I'm, you know, if I'm
less mobile or less fit or I'mnot a keen cyclist to suddenly
be able to do that style oftravel in a way that is just
such an immersive, wonderful wayto do it.

(48:01):
It's that accessibility issueand I think that's why we're
seeing cycling and active.
And again, you have to thinklinked back to the pandemic.
Right, we were stuck indoors.
Everyone baked sourdough andgot super fit for two weeks and
drank until three in the morning.
But hey, you can do all of thosethings on holiday, right?
So I think active is alsolinked to that.

(48:23):
Hey, we were stuck indoors andwe saw a big rise in people
buying bikes and jogging and allof those things.
So I think there's some linkagethere.
But I think people want toexperience the destination, but
they want to feel like they'redoing it in a way that's more
relevant to them and moreimmersive, and cycling certainly
offers that, and I think thatcategory is just going to keep

(48:45):
growing in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
We'll be right back.
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And now back to the show what'syour vision over the next five

(51:37):
years for both Explore and theadventure category in general.
How much of what we see todaywill remain true and where do we
think we'll see the innovation?
Clearly in destinations that'sa big one.
And style of travel we'vetalked about those so clearly
that's going to continue toevolve.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
I don't think the product will change massively
because it's still got a longway to go.
I think what you'll see is adeepening of the product.
So if you go back 10 years youwould do we would maybe offer
sort of you'd go to india in thesame way as you go to south.
You know country in southafrica or country in south
america, sorry, something likethat, but now you know you can
go to vietnam and you can docycling, you can do food, you

(52:13):
can do upgraded you can do soit's that sort of doing a going
to a country but doing it in away that um suits some, a
particular interest you mighthave, so that deepening of
destination and the way youtravel, that will definitely
continue to go.
I think we'll see in our space amove to more upgraded and
premium and maybe even touchingluxury at some point, because

(52:36):
accommodation never used to be afact that people just wanted to
see the destination.
So I think now that people areused to perhaps through the rise
of Airbnb and particularly inour age demographic you know
that 40 to 60 they've got a bitmore disposable income there's
no crime in wanting to do itwith a bit of comfort, right?
So I think we'll see thatcontinue to expand.

(52:57):
I think that this notion ofcommunity will only grow and
grow, and grow.
I think social media isn't goinganywhere and it's such an
enabler and an inspiring thingbut it also can be quite an
isolating thing.
So if you can find the middle,if you can be the middle ground
or the sort of the bridgebetween that sort of somewhat
isolation and somewhatinspiration, that to me can be a

(53:19):
quite powerful thing.
And I think we'll talkincreasingly about community and
micro communities and tribes.
As you know we are a travelcompany, but I'm increasingly
seeing us as a company thatcreates community.
I think you'll see that thetechnology piece is going to be
fascinating, and I think we're.
I mean we're.

(53:41):
Travel has never.
Correct me if I'm wrong, dan,you may never been at the
forefront of technology.
But I think there's, finally,technologies that are coming and
emerging, and particularly withAI, that travel companies can
properly harness for the firsttime and perhaps a way that they
haven't taken the advantage ofin other technology advances.

(54:04):
Ai is so powerful for what wedo because I don't think
anything will replace thatwanting to be on a community
right, so that ai, I don't think, and you know I could be
sitting here in 10 years and youmay not be talking to the
michael edwards explore bop mdand it'll do a far better job
for me, and that's fine, that'sthe way the world evolves, right

(54:26):
.
But I think people are going towant human connections and I
think small group isparticularly well placed to it.
Does it now and I think it'llincreasingly play that part
going forward if we continue tooffer great product.
But what AI can do is give thecustomer a better experience.
Going into that pre-trip, youknow knowledge.
You know we've got AI now builtinto our customer service

(54:50):
telephone systems.
We're learning from thecustomer.
We're being able to serve themup with knowledge and
information and data and answersand better ways of giving them
the information they need.
It makes it quicker for ourteam so they can focus on that
human aspect.
What inspires you?
How can I help you?
What's the trip going to belike?
Who are you going to meet?
How are you going to feel?

(55:11):
How can we make it better foryou?
So those things and from amarketing point of view, the
thing that, the thing that I'dlike to see change in the next
10 years and I hope we see thischange and we, we, um, we make
no bones about this, we haven'tdone a great job in this space
is we're talking about this riseof small group travel, right,
and.
But we're talking about broadly, you know, middle class English

(55:35):
speaking generally, you know,not particularly diverse group
of people going on these tripsand I would like to see that
change.
You know, I would like to thinkin 10 years time our style of
travel is not just open but is areal option for people from
more diverse cultures andlanguages.
And one of the limitations tothat is your marketing right.

(55:58):
You market.
If people pick up a brochure andthey see 16 similar looking
people, you're not going tothink that trips for you and in
the past that's been you knowyou have to do photo shoots and
in-country video and it'sonerous and it's resource heavy.
So you might want to move thediversity dial a little bit.
But how do you move that intoyour marketing in a way that
also is balanced, along withsort of meeting your financial

(56:20):
goals?
With tools like ai, I can see atime where we can replace a lot
of that onerous, heavy liftingstuff around marketing, that we
can really present this style oftravel to a more diverse group
of people.
That, to me, would be trulyexciting.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
To exactly that point .
That was actually.
You and I both, you know, notonly have a great affinity for
this style of travel, and youmentioned, you know, a couple of
times in our conversation thatyou know this is a small
industry and when you look atthe size of the cruise industry,
and so one of the things Iwanted to ask you, given your
you know, your background, yourexpertise and your position in
the industry, is how can we makesure that more people come into

(56:58):
the consideration set, whetherit is a traveler right now
that's listening to this sittingon the fence about group or
adventure travel, or traveladvisors that just don't know
enough about adventure and grouptravel?
Clearly, one of the ways thatwe do that is familiarization
trips, fam trips, as we callthem to get someone to have had
that same aha moment that we'vehad and you're like, oh my God,
I want everyone to experiencethis style of travel.

(57:19):
That's clearly how you and Iboth feel about it.
But what are some of the otherthings that we can do together
or as an industry, so that we'renot focused on the just
shifting market share or thatkind of zero game there's only,
and focusing on the competition?
We've talked about some of theother adventure travel companies
and really, if you look at thegrowth of them, everyone's

(57:39):
seeing growth, so that's that'sa fantastic position for us all
to be in.
The question is like how highcan we go?
How big is this opportunity?

Speaker 1 (57:47):
I think we need to take ownership of it.
Dan we, you know we come onyour podcast and other media
outlets and we talk about howpassionate we are about this
style of travel and I genuinelybelieve it shaped who I am and
what I believe as a human andhow I raise my family and how
the group of friends I have andhow I perceive the world
politically and all of thosethings, and for me, I've
benefited hugely from that.

(58:07):
I'm a lower of great wealth.
That is a huge privilege andit's helped shape me as a person
.
So, if we talk about beingtruly purpose led businesses,

(58:29):
part of our mission, if webelieve it, is to commit to
those other generations andother groups of people that
perhaps don't have that sameopportunity now.
And is that I don't know ifthat's programs?
Is it our marketing?
Is it how we position as itself?
Is it outreach programs?
Do we have to adapt our productto adapt our product?

(58:54):
I would like to see morediscussion on that as an
industry because as much as Ilove our industry, we do tend to
talk about the same things inthe same ways, and we're in a
position where we are relativelysmall and we say we're purpose
led and I genuinely believe weare.
We are in a positioncollectively to move the dial on
some of this stuff right If weown it and we agree on it.
And I don't know exactly whatthat looks like, but that's a

(59:15):
debate and a discussion I wouldwelcome.
I I don't want to be.
I want this product, I wantthis style of travel, um, to be
open to everyone in the same waythat travel was open to me from
, you know, from about the ageof 18 onwards, because I know
the profound impact it has.
So, internally, we do havewe're a bit behind in my opinion

(59:37):
, but we are starting to putsome real tangible goals around
what that might look like in thenext two years, and one of the
things will be about marketing.
You know, about how we presentour style of travel and who it's
for, and you know we'll stepinto that in a way that's
hopefully not condescending orwe'll try and get the balance
right, because there is a riskthat you make it less accessible

(59:59):
.
So it's a bit of a minefieldand we've got to get that right.
But similarly, we've got tobring more diverse people into
work with us.
Right?
Because if you have to say andone of the great things about
the pandemic is we're not, ourbusiness doesn't function from a
single location anymore, we'vegot hubs around the world.
We've got people from much morebroad nationalities and

(01:00:22):
backgrounds working for us now.
So that's the big opportunityfor me.
My access to talent and diverseways of thinking are so much
broader than they werepre-pandemic.
So if I look about my company,I think we'll double easily in
the next five, 10 years.
Certainly in the next fiveyears I think we'll double, and
then sky's the limit, I think.
But that is reliant on bringingin a different way of thinking

(01:00:45):
into your business.
Right To keep going throughthose step changes or barriers
to changing the way you dobusiness and who you do it?
For A bit of a long-windedanswer because I don't have all
the answers, dan Just a passionto get there, I think, is coming
across.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
For sure.
And the one thing I'd love toask you on this exact topic,
because one of the most powerfulways we can inspire people to
travel is through our travelstories.
Yeah, and Tony and MaureenWheeler, who I had the pleasure
to work with at Lonely Planetfor many years, they would
always ask them this question.
That used to frustrate me whenI hear journalists or media ask
like tell us something terriblethat happened on your trip or

(01:01:20):
something that happened Did youget robbed, did you get mugged?
And Maureen was like we'venever had a bad experience.
She was just like becausepeople try to instantly go to
the negative or the reasons notto leave your home.
And so I find that travelstories and clearly it's in our
DNA, we're storytellers and whenwe share stories, it inspires
other people to travel.
So I would love to hear if youwouldn't mind sharing with us

(01:01:42):
one of your favorite travelstories or memories.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Ah, you've got me down because I was going to tell
you a story where bad stuffhappened but ultimately it was
amazing stuff because it wasabout the human spirit, right?
So I was very luckily fortunateenough to do the Sydney to
Hobart many years ago, thefamous yacht race from Sydney to
Hobart that takes off fromBoxing Day from Sydney Harbour

(01:02:07):
all the way down to Tasmania.
It's a race.
I don't know how I managed towangle my way onto it, I'm not
much of a sailor, but it wascatastrophic that year Huge
storms.
I was in the middle of thosestorms and sadly, I think from
memory, about six people diedand I think the worst race in
terms of the history of thatrace and to be in those storms
is surreal and terrifying at thesame time.

(01:02:29):
But coming into Tasmania acouple of days later and we went
to a couple of funerals andsome services, that human spirit
you hear when you're out at seais.
You know, you can hear all theseboats and I was lying in my
bunk with what's called the race, scared, and you could hear all
the boats talking to each otherand that connectivity felt.
We didn't feel safe, necessarily, but you were connected by why

(01:02:52):
are we out here on the oceandoing this in the middle of the
storm, right, and that sense ofI just want to push myself, I
want to do something outside ofmy comfort zone, I want to have
a shared experience withsomebody else.
That and what I remember, whatI take away from that is not
that I was in a big storm, it'sthat I had this amazing shared
experience that now binds me tosome, some tangible, intangible

(01:03:14):
strong with a few people, barelytenuous with others.
But we shared that sameexperience and it will have
equally formed something aboutus in some way right.
That binds us together and forme that's what we do is about
stepping into the world right ina way that, um, you couldn't do
many years ago and we do,hopefully.

(01:03:36):
We step into that world in acertain way that makes it very
accessible for you andbeneficial for the places that
you go, and for me that's prettypowerful storytelling, right
for sure yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
No thanks for sharing that with us.
Of course, yeah, the dramatic umit's pretty dramatic, yeah, no
I no, I appreciate you sharingthat and obviously I've so
enjoyed this discussion.
Obviously, I value ourfriendship and I'm so pleased
and impressed to see yourcontinued success.
So I look forward to seeing youagain when you're across and,
uh, and and seeing the team, asI do regularly here in the, the

(01:04:09):
Toronto office.
Um, but certainly uh, I want tomake sure that everyone knows
how to connect with you, how tofind out more about Explore
Worldwide.
So point everyone in thosedirections, if you wouldn't mind
, Michael.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
So Explore Worldwide, explorecocom, so in ca sorry,
it's a global audience and youcan find me on LinkedIn.
I'm very happy to talk toanyone who's got an interest in
this space.
Dan, I really appreciate youhighlighting our sector.
I know how passionate that'show we met, so we share a love

(01:04:41):
of it and it's great to be ableto come on and talk about it and
highlight it.
I think if there's one thingthat you and I share, it's a
real passion for this sector andwhat we offer, so it's been
great to be able to come on andtalk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much again,wishing you and the team every
success in 2025 and beyond.
Thanks again, michael.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Thanks Dan Really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Thanks so much for joining us on this latest
episode of Travel Trends.
I hope you've been enjoying ourdeep dive into the world of
guided travel.
I certainly enjoyedreconnecting with Michael
Edwards today and talking aboutExplore Worldwide and bringing
adventure travel into thisseries on guided touring.
Next week we're going to bespeaking to the head of AAT
Kings, ben Hall, who is also anold friend of mine that I worked

(01:05:23):
with for nearly a decade at theTravel Corporation.
He grew up through the Contikibrand and went on to great
success across the company andultimately moved back to
Australia, where he's from, tolead one of the most iconic
Australian multi-day tourcompanies, aat Kings.
So you can look forward to thatconversation next week.
And don't forget, we post clipsand highlights on all our

(01:05:45):
social channels, which you canfind at Travel Trends Podcast,
on LinkedIn, on Instagram andYouTube, and then we send out a
monthly update of all of ourlatest episodes and our travel
plans for the next month, whichyou can register for at
TravelTrendsPodcastcom.
And then, don't forget, thisseries is brought to us by our
sponsor, tour Optima.
You can find out moreinformation at TourOptimacom or

(01:06:07):
just email Ben at TourOptimacomto set up a demo, because if you
have a day tour or multi-daytour company and are eager to
have your guests delighted andcome back and book more trips,
then you need to learn abouttheir white label app that will
allow your guides to be able toconnect with your guests to make
sure they have the bestpossible experience with your
brand.
Now, until next week.

(01:06:27):
Safe travels.