Staying on Track: Rail Travel in 2025 Part 2 with Frank Marini, CEO, Railbookers

Send us a text

Frank Marini’s rise from the mailroom at Collette Vacations to CEO of Railbookers Group is a masterclass in travel industry leadership. Recorded live at ITB Berlin, this episode dives into how Frank has built a fully remote company with 350+ staff across six countries and driven an impressive 36% growth by 2025.

What sets Railbookers apart? A focus on crafting complete rail vacations with over 6,000 customizable itineraries across destinations like Switzerland, Italy, and Ireland. Blending transportation, accommodations, and experiences, their packages cater to discerning travelers, averaging 10.5-day trips at $6,000 per person. Bookings are split evenly between direct consumers and travel advisors.

Frank’s passion for innovation is clear in his approach to AI. Armed with MIT training, he’s rolled out an enterprise-wide AI strategy, giving every employee access to advanced tools and developing a proprietary system to enhance rail-related answers. This tech-savvy approach aligns with his commitment to exceptional customer service, as outlined in his new book, Staying on Track.

“Rail is the new river cruising,” Frank observes, signaling the rapid growth and luxury appeal of rail travel. Tune in for insights into this evolving industry and the future of rail adventures.

Season 5 Launched Jan 15th. New Episodes Every Weds! Check out our first 4 Seasons.

https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
A lot of things I read are about a different
industry.
It has nothing to do withtravel, but I'm like, hey, I can
apply that in this industry.
So that's most of what we do welook to see how another
industry is doing it and weapply it to ours.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and today we're going
to be speaking with the CEO ofRailbookers, frank Morini.
We actually recorded this liveat the ITB conference in Berlin,
thanks to the Focusrite teamfor letting us use their booth.
I actually had a couple ofcalls with Frank leading up to
this interview and both of uswanted to record live in person

(00:36):
if possible, and sure enough, wewere able to make it happen and
I was keen to put this togetheras this two-part rail series.
Last week, we spoke to BjornBender, the CEO of Rail Europe,
and today we're going to getmany insights from Frank about
how he built this company overthe last 15 years and his role
as president and CEO.
And one of the things thatreally stood out to me about

(00:59):
Frank and one of the reasonsthat people kept telling me that
I need to meet Frank is becausehe is incredibly interested in
AI as well and how it's going totransform the rail industry.
And clearly we've been talkinga lot about AI on our podcast
out of the last AI summit andwe've got some exciting details
coming up for you shortly aboutour AI summit for 2025.
But that was just one of thereasons that I wanted to speak

(01:21):
to Frank, because so manycolleagues that we both share
were surprised that we had nevermet.
And now I understand whybecause we genuinely got along
and we had so much in common.
So I think you're really goingto enjoy this conversation.
I want to just give a little bitof background to this focus
area and specifically rail,because I shared some stats that

(01:42):
I think our listeners foundquite interesting in our first
episode, just about the growthof the rail industry for travel
compared to the size of theriver cruise industry, being
about 2 billion in this sector,being 74 billion today and
growing to 128 billion over thenext three to five years.
But when you look at a companylike Railbookers, they now have
more than 300 staff.

(02:03):
2024 was a record year for them.
They brought their teamtogether at the end of the year
to celebrate being up 30% andtheir forward bookings for 2025
were already up 31%.
And this is where you see acompany that is just the stars
are aligning with terms ofhaving a great team, having
great technology and havinggreat product, and you'll

(02:25):
certainly get a sense today inthis interview with Frank why
these stars are aligning and thesuccess of his company that is
growing globally.
So I really wanted to look atrail.
I'm a big fan of traveling byrail, as many of you may have
heard in that first episode, andfor me, when I look at a
company like Railbookers that isdoing something truly
innovative by taking rail andhow it's evolving and shaping

(02:49):
the ways that we can travel andreach places and actually give
travelers the opportunity to goto smaller towns and be able to
stay in local properties and beable to eat out at restaurants.
And, interesting, one of thestats, as I was preparing for
this discussion with Frank, thatstood out to me is that the
number one trip that is bookedin addition to rail is food

(03:13):
tours, wine tastings, cookingclasses.
That's really what people arelooking for.
And the other part that standsout to me is they're looking at
museums and historical tours allthings that really speak to me.
The average trip for someonebooking a trip with railbookers
in 2025 is about 10 days.
70% of them are booking for aweek or longer, and so they're

(03:34):
staying longer in destination.
They're spending more, whichwas some of the interesting
stats that really stood out tome and then they're catering to
this new luxury audience and oneof the trips that they have and
you'll hear a bit about this inour discussion is the first of
its kind around the world byluxury train journey, so I look
forward to sharing more detailswith you on that as we get into
our discussion.

(03:55):
Now, before we jump right in, wewanted just to highlight very
quickly that all of the clipsand highlights from our episodes
are up on our social channels,so be sure to check out LinkedIn
, youtube and Instagram atTravel Trends Podcast.
And as a follow-on to thisepisode, we're going to have a
special spotlight episode onFocusrite Europe, which I

(04:16):
recorded in the booth as well tohighlight their event coming up
in June, where we're going tobe recording and all of our
listeners have the opportunityto get an extra 100 euro
discount.
Just go to our website.
You'll see the link or sign upfor our newsletter even better
so you'll get all the updates.
And as we continue on the pathwith spotlight episodes for 2025

(04:36):
, we're going to be reallyfocusing on four areas.
We're going to be looking atdestinations, so doing
destination spotlights.
We're going to do startup andcompany profile spotlights, some
executive profiles and thenevents, and events is what
you're going to see quite a fewof this year as we attend more
and more events.
We're going to be releasingspotlight episodes and we'll

(04:56):
have one coming up very shortlyfrom the Educational Travel
Consortium Conference as well.
But the Focusrite episode willlaunch next week with Pete, the
managing director of Focusrite,and Florence, who runs
everything in Europe, so she'sgoing to help us shape the
series that we're going torecord there live.
So if you're going, make surethat you reach out and we'd love
to find time to record with you.

(05:17):
We'll be right back.
Attention travel operators,destination management companies
and accommodation providers.
Managing payments doesn't haveto be a source of stress.
Meet Flywire, the modernpayments platform built
specifically for the uniqueneeds of the travel industry.
With Flywire, you can collectpayments from travelers
worldwide with ease, enjoyfaster payouts in your preferred

(05:38):
currency, reduce payment feesand offer your guests flexible,
localized payment optionsthey're familiar with.
Not only does Flywire simplifyyour operations, but it also
helps elevate your guestexperience and boost your bottom
line.
That means you can stopworrying about payments and
focus on what you do bestcreating unforgettable travel
experiences.
Discover how Flywire can helpyour business save time, save

(06:00):
money and deliver truly seamlesstransactions.
Visit flywirecom slashtraveltrends.
To learn more.
That's flywirecom slashtraveltrends.
Did you know that over 20% ofpeople who purchase a ticket
will upgrade to a refundableoption when given the choice?
By offering Refund Protect, youmake it easy for your customers

(06:21):
to protect their ticketpurchase against emergency
circumstances like illness,injury, accidents and more,
whether you're an airline, hotelgroup, tour operator, ticketing
platform, ota or transportsolution.
When you partner with ProtectGroup, your customers get peace
of mind and you generate extrarevenue.
With a Trustpilot score of 4.8stars and over 31,000 reviews,

(06:43):
they treat your customers astheir own, earning the highest
customer ratings in the industry.
To find out more, check outProtect Group at protectgroup.
That's protectgroup.
And now back to the show.
Now let's get back into theworld of rail travel and bring
in a true expert and anincredible innovator who's been

(07:04):
leading the way with creatingthese rail packaged holidays.
As you'll hear from Frank, hestarted at Collette, he worked
at the Travel Corporation andled Contiki USA for a number of
years, and he went to go workfor the Yankee Group, which
became Railbookers and is nowpart of Railbookers, and over
the last 15 years, himself andthe partners there have really

(07:25):
revolutionized how travelers andtravel agents book rail.
So, frank, it's a real pleasureto have you on.
Thanks so much for joining uson Travel Trends.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Great to be here.
Thanks, dan, it's great to meetyou in person For sure?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, Steve Forelli is a common friend for us both was
adamant that I was like Dan,have you met Frank?
And we actually passed likeships of the night, as it turns
out, at the travel corporationfor many years, and some of our
other colleagues, when Imentioned that we were going to
be recording together, like howdid you never meet Frank?
Everyone obviously highlyregards you.
You're a very well-respectedexecutive in this industry.
You've got a remarkablebackstory.

(07:59):
We're going to get into that aswell.
You've got a new book thatyou've come out with.
And also one of the things thatSteve had highlighted which is
why we definitely had to getFrank on the Travel Trends
podcast is because he's taken abig passion and interest in AI
and actually even took some timeoff to actually attend
in-person an AI course at MITImpressive, yes.

(08:21):
And he took that away and isapplying it to his business
already.
So for many reasons, I'mthrilled that Frank is here.
But, Frank, let's start withyour background, because
obviously you've got an EastCoast accent it's not New York,
but tell everyone where you'refrom and your background in the
travel industry.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Sure Dan.
So I'm originally from RhodeIsland, lincoln, rhode Island,
that's in New England, rhodeIsland.
So my background is I startedworking in the mailroom of
Collette Vacations in highschool.
I was at my part time job and,you know, from there went into
marketing as an intern incollege, got into law school but
decided not to go to law schoolbecause I got a chance to go on

(08:59):
a fam trip with Collette, cameback and thought that's great,
let me put off law school for ayear and I can go on a fam trip
and I'll stay with Colette.
And I never went back to lawschool.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
So from there, started my career at Colette,
which was amazing.
Well, so Colette, of course, isone of our title sponsors for
season five, and the Colettecompany, I mean, it's a family
owned business, as you well know, and so this is where I thought
it was really fascinating.
As I got to know Frank, We'vehad a few calls leading up to
meeting here in Berlin and Ididn't realize that.
I mean, obviously you readsomeone's LinkedIn profile, but
it's not until you really get tospeak to someone and know their

(09:29):
story and their journey,because you were with Colette
and then you moved away and thencame back, and this is where
you've got such a greatreputation, because you spent a
number of years at the TravelCorporation you headed up

(09:49):
Contiki USA, for example and soyou have certainly earned your
stripes in the travel industry,and anyone who wants to find out
more about your backgroundcertainly can obviously check
you out on LinkedIn.
But let's jump to railbookers.
So you've got this legacy inthe industry.
How did the opportunity comeabout with railbookers and I
know it's evolved to you beingan owner of this company now.
So, yeah, tell us about thatcompany and that journey.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Sure.
So when I started, it actuallyused to be Yankee Leisure Group.
When I started, and basicallyyears back when I was at Contiki
doing youth trips, my currentbusiness partner and co-owner,
john Tavano, had another youthcompany called 1-800-Montreal
and Yankee Holidays at the timeand they used to offer some of
our Contiki holidays and I gotto be friends with John, got to
know him and then, back maybe2012, he had asked me to come

(10:31):
over as a co -owner and to runthe company and at that time we
had Amtrak vacations, which westill have today in Yankee
holidays.
And I didn't know anythingabout rail travel.
I didn't know anything aboutFIT travel because my background
was all group escorted toursglobally, but I could see a huge
opportunity and that's how ithappened Lots of fun.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, I have to ask you what happens when you call
1-800-Montreal.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I don't know.
That's a good question.
That company doesn't existanymore, but that was John's
company started years ago doingbus trips for students going
from New England to Montreal forthe weekend.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh, that's really cool.
I just love when thesebusinesses I mean, they're kind
of like back in the Yellow Pageswhen it was AAA and like it was
.
How do you get your businesslisted and featured?
Long before SEO was a thing.
I just thought that's funny aswe prepare to talk about AI.
But tell us a bit aboutRailbookers as a business today,
because we also have some othercolleagues in common.
This is bookers as a businesstoday, because we also have some
other colleagues in common.
This is the amazing thing aboutour industry that clearly we've

(11:26):
both spent our careers in andand love this space.
Chris david is a good friend ofmine.
We literally live in the sameneighborhood.
We uh end up walking our dogstogether some evening.
So, uh, chris, shout out to youbecause I had not met uh frank
before, as you know, andobviously you guys work very
closely together and, uh, I'llactually learn from chris more
about rail bookers and fromSteve as well, and I've come to
have, I guess, a great respectand appreciation for this

(11:48):
business you've built, because Ilove rail.
So, yeah, tell us all aboutRailbookers, the size of the
business today, your teamstructure, because I know one of
the things I think is reallycool.
You guys are all remote.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yep, totally so.
For us, for Railbookers Group,we've got the Railbookers brand,
which is global, outside of theUS, rail travel around the
world and then Amtrak Vacationswe operate in the US.
So you know, for us howRailbookers came about is we had
the Amtrak Vacations brand andwe started to expand that
outside the US and Railbookerswas actually one of our

(12:18):
customers and they were sellingour Amtrak Vacations product and
we recognized really quicklythey had all the European rail
contracts and were an FIT modeland we could see a huge
opportunity there.
And actually today oddly enough, today is nine years to the day
we bought rail bookers.
It was today, actually, nineyears ago.
Congratulations.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Globally?
Yeah, it's been amazing.
And where are you guys now interms of the size of the
business, your growth plans?
I mean, obviously you're basedin the US, but rail is very much
a European phenomenon.
I really hope that.
And Asia, I should say as well.
Certainly Japan, and we'll getinto a lot of detail about rail
travel.
But, yeah, tell us a little bitaround, I guess, where you guys
are today as a business andyour growth plans.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Sure.
So today, last year, if I lookat last year, we ended last year
at 30% up and today we have 350plus staff in six countries and
34 states will get into thatbeing fully remote and we've
just been on fire and we'retracking this year already up
36% going into this year, andthere's no stopping rail.
It's exploding.

(13:20):
Rail is the new river cruisingto me and it's just.
I feel very lucky in the spacethat we're in.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
Actually, I hadn't heard itexpressed like that, because
certainly we saw that phenomenonof everyone all of a sudden had
to do a river cruise, and railis one of those things that's
almost gone through arenaissance, especially when we
talk about sustainability andenvironmental footprint and
certainly the challenges thatcome with flying anywhere and
being here in Europe.
Actually, one of the speakersthat was coming across with me

(13:46):
today on the transfer, he wasfrom the Netherlands and he
actually took a train here andthat was a five hour train ride
and I was like she's preferredway to travel, which we know
it's probably the best way toget around Europe, with the
exception of also a river cruise.
I guess you could do both Right.
So, yeah, tell us a bit aboutrail travel and the market in
2025.

(14:07):
What is the size of the market?
What are some of the majormarkets?
You say you've got team membersin six different countries.
Are you focused on the globalrail opportunity?
You're primarily focused onEurope.
Yeah, how have you kind ofstructured your business?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
So we have staff in the US, canada, the UK,
australia today, as well asIndia and the Philippines.
Those are our staff, arelocated by our source markets.
Where our customers are comingfrom are the US, canada, the UK,
australia, new Zealand, and forus we go to any destination,
any date, for any length of time.
If the train goes there, so dowe.
So it's really a very flexible,large opportunity that we have

(14:43):
where we're based and for therail market in general it's as
far and wide as you can imagine,because rail means something
different to every customer.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
It could be a post river cruise, it could be a
cross country, it could beluxury rail, you name it, yeah.
So that's actually helpfulcontext, because when I think
about rail bookers, one of thethings that I wasn't clear on
was how much of the business isB2C and B2B.
And so tell usa little bitabout that, because I know you
work with a lot of travel agentpartners who obviously are very
keen to be able to sell rail,given the interest and the
demand.
So you tell us how you'veapproached your distribution

(15:15):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
So we're a 50% B2B, 50% B2C and on the B2B side
we're preferred with every majorconsortium and travel
consortium in each market we'rein.
So whether that's AAA, Virtuoso, Signature, Travel Leaders
Network, even in the US, but inevery major market we are and
we're so thankful for thembecause what we provide is we
make rail travel easy.
I like to say we speak trainBecause, if you think about it,

(15:40):
the amount of different raillines around the world, whether
luxury or rail, they're alldifferent.
So they're almost like alldifferent cars of all different
makes, models and years.
So for a travel advisor to knowwhich route, where to sit on
the train, how to book it,they're all different.
There's no commonalities, andthat's where we come in.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
One of the executives that's also part of Season 5 is
the CEO of Rail Europe, and sotell us a little bit.
I think that's a brand thatmany people would be familiar
with, especially when they thinkof a year rail pass and
actually when our listeners havea chance to listen to that
episode, I didn't realize thatthey were actually founded in
New York in the 1930s.
So it's a fascinating story ofthese wealthy Americans that

(16:20):
thought it would be a great timeto invest in Rail Europe.
Probably wasn't the best timein the 1930s, but obviously
things came back in the 50s andthe 60s.
But yeah, tell us how yourbusiness compares to a company
like Rail Europe who's based inParis.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Sure, sure.
So the difference with someonelike a company like Rail Europe
that does a good job versus usis they're a rail ticketer and
we're not just a rail ticketer.
We don't sell rail tickets, wesell independent rail vacations.
So rail is one component, it'sthe most important component,
but it's also we have railhotels, sightseeing excursions,
and really that's where we comeinto play is how far is a hotel
from here?
What else can you do?
Rails are our main component,but we're not just a rail

(16:56):
ticketer.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Cool.
Now I appreciate thatclarification.
That's important because youknow, hearing rail bookers, it's
like do I go and book my, mybusiness ticket to be able to
get from london to paris?
So let's talk about some of theproduct and experiences you put
together.
And for those of you that arefollowing along at home that are
multitasking, it'srailbookerscom so you can see
some of these experiences, likeyou know, riding the express to

(17:16):
lake como and um.
So yeah, tell us a few of theexperiences I get, maybe even if
you wouldn't mind, highlightingthe top three itineraries that
you know that Americans inparticular seek out.
That are, I guess, yourspecialties.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Sure, so for us, because today we have over 6,000
itineraries, because everythingis customizable, so it's really
, from a package standpoint, itcould be anything a customer or
travel agent wants it to be.
As far as our most popularoutlet, let's say the US market
or North American marketSwitzerland's number one, and
there's so many combinations ofSwitzerland that you can go to.

(17:51):
Definitely number one.
Number two is Italy, and againso many different, not just your
Venice, florence, rome, butCinque Terre, you name it.
All different routes andexperiences, lengths of days.
But you also have Ireland byrail is very big for us it's all
around Iowa.
People don't realize, so itreally depends.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
And then typical duration and cost.
If you might have been over,you were kindly talking about
your source market, but yeah,just in terms of our listeners.
Obviously you highlighted halffor B2C and half for B2B.
So if listeners to this arethinking I'd like to book a rail
holiday or I've got clientsthat are interested, tell us,

(18:28):
sort of I guess, what is theideal customer profile for you
and what I guess that means interms of duration and the prices
that you offer.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, sure, so again, because everything's
customizable, they can almosthit a price point they're
looking for.
But in general I would say ourcustomer is a 50 plus customer.
They're independent, they wantto be independent.
Although we do a ton of postriver cruising, we don't do
river cruising, it's post-rivercruising or post-trip, but it
could really range.
On the railbooker side, theaverage amount of days is 10.5
days they're traveling andaround 6,000 or so per person.

(18:54):
So it kind of gives you someidea.
But again, that could be allthe way from luxury rail like
the Venice Simple on our express, to the national rail system.
One interesting phenomenon lastyear is we saw our average age
drop by two years because we sawthis influx of honeymooners
which we don't market tohoneymooners in the 25 to 40,
who wanted to go on somethingdifferent, didn't want to just
do a resort, but they wanted totravel around Europe and they

(19:15):
wanted to have that independence.
And we just got this influxfrom the travel trade we're so
thankful from travel age.
All of a sudden all thesehoneymooners travel with us.
We just were like, oh thanks.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Wasn't it?
You mentioned honeymooners?
Because we did a deep dive intothe safaris and obviously you
and I have a backgroundconnected to brands like African
travel, and so we interviewedWilderness and Sherwin Banner
from African travel.
We had some great guests onthat series.
One of the things when I wasjust doing research to prepare
for those conversations that Ifound quite interesting because
obviously I'm very keen in theseconversations to kind of get

(19:45):
those gems that you know, unlockthat knowledge that is
obviously unique to you and howyou market your business and
find your customers and one ofthe things that Sherwin had
highlighted to me.
Actually, lucille, originallyI'm an office coach, you know
Lucille, of course, she ran LionWorld for many years and when
we were collaborating togetherbuilding out the Lion World
website, the African travelwebsite, she was highlighting to

(20:05):
me the importance ofcelebration travel.
Is that actually when it's ahoneymoon in particular, and so
when I was doing the research,half of the African safaris are
booked by couples and then theother half are booked by what
they call friends, butinterestingly that group is
actually growing quitesignificantly, especially
because you've got solo femaletravelers that are looking to go
on more organized tours, whichI keep seeing the rise.

(20:28):
Actually, when I arrived at theevent, I picked up one of the I
guess they produce like a dailynewspaper here for this event
and then they list out some ofthe trends, and one of them was
rise in group travel.
Our background is that it'sactually outpaced independent
travel.
Our background is that it'sactually outpaced independent
travel and one of thecontributing factors for this,
as I've come to understand it,is the rise in solo travelers

(20:49):
that actually want to travel aspart of a group, which is many
female travelers.
So, yeah, tell us, let's diveinto the trends for rail travel
and let's talk aboutdemographics.
We'll talk about technology,but let's talk a little bit
first just about thedestinations that you see that
our customers are reallyinterested in, whether it's
honeymooners or like you knowwhat are some of the, I guess,

(21:10):
the top destinations in 2025 andgoing into 2026?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Sure, so in 2025, definitely, italy is still on
fire.
Italy and Switzerland nonstop.
Ireland, norway we see Norwaypicking up the Scandinavian
countries.
Obviously, france is comingback strong.
It was a little softer lastyear with the Olympics.
We see that strong fordestinations, but we see it
really across the board becausea lot of our.
I'll give you an example Sicilydoes well for us by rail and,

(21:37):
yes, you can take a ferry thatthe train goes on, the ferry
from.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Italy to Sicily.
Wait a second.
There's water between those twothings, I know, but train goes
right on.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Why is that the last season of White Lotus in Sicily?
Right, of course, so we seelots of these different trends
across the board.
You name it.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Okay, and in terms of sustainability, that's one of
the things I'm very keen to askyou, so I'm going to put that
out there now.
Keen to ask you, so I'm goingto put that out there now.
One of the things that did comeup in my conversation with
Bjorn at Rail Europe is thatpeople choosing a sustainable
option was a key driver, andit's something I always ask our
guests, because I've beengenuinely keen to understand,
post-covid, how travelerbehavior has changed.
Obviously, that's very much thetheme and focus for this show,

(22:18):
and so where do you seesustainability driving behavior?
Is that, in fact, why you areseeing people choose rail travel
?

Speaker 1 (22:31):
That's a really good question.
What we see is sustainabilityis important to everyone.
There's no question on that buttruthfully, we don't see that
as the main driver.
We don't see where people arecalling and saying, hey, I want
to take the train because it'ssustainable, they're happy about
that, that's like a bonus, butthat's not a driver in there.
What we do see more is the easeof use city-to-city location.
I don't have to go out to anairport transfer there and then
fly into the city and then getback into the city or I don't

(22:52):
want to drive in that city.
That tends to be the moreimportant that they're asking
about versus again, not thatsustainability isn't important,
but it's not a top driver.
For our customers, it's more ofthe independent side and the
city-to-city location that thetrain provides.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was asked to speak at aconference in Quebec City
earlier this year and could findthat as an event spotlight Le
Grand Remus, which was afantastic conference, but it was
all about sustainability andinnovation.
And they asked me if I'd kindlytake the train and I thought
that sounds like a great ideauntil I was over 13 hours and I
was like this is not viable forme to be away for two.
I mean, I love the idea ofsitting on a train, but it's

(23:28):
just not feasible.
And then the reality is, likemost consumers, it's about cost,
it's about convenience, and soif you achieve those things
which is much more likely in amarket like Europe and then the
interesting thing that has comeup in our conversations with
people like James Thornton fromIntrepid is that people are
choosing sustainable optionswhen they think about repeat
business.
So if they're going to continueto travel a certain way, they

(23:50):
want to make sure that it issustainable.
So let's keep going.
Because obviously, the otherthing I'm really keen to
understand is demographicfactors.
We've got this rapidly agingbaby boomer population.
We've got this next generationof young travelers who are
spending more on experiences.
Where are you seeing the growthright now, and how is that
changing some of either yourmarketing or your product

(24:10):
offering?

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, great question.
So a couple different ways.
One, we're still seeing againthe 50-plus market, but they're
active seniors.
They want that independenceAgain.
They're getting on the train,they're taking their luggage.
So we're seeing that continuinglike we're definitely seeing it
dropping in age, not just thehoneymooners I talked about
earlier, but people that want toexperience in a way that they
want to because, remember, theycan customize the trip as they

(24:32):
see it.
So we see that as a growingtrend.
And you know what's interestingis most of our travelers, a lot
of people ask me to say hey,your travelers, they're just
train buffs.
I'm like no one calls us for arail vacation.
They call us for a vacation butthey want to use the train
because they want theflexibility.
And I'm like no one actuallycalls us for a rail vacation per
se.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
People are surprised by that.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
But I think you know, for us, you know, rail is a
component of the trip and itmakes it.
It's ease of use, especially ona vacation.
You don't have to worry about acar rental in different places,
or maybe you don't want to bewith a group, so it gives you
that flexibility of whoever youare as a traveler.
To personalize it.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Our longtime listeners will be very familiar
with TravelAIcom, one of oursponsors from the very beginning
.
They've sponsored the last twoseasons and also our AI Summit.
You might actually rememberthey were recently featured in
season four.
The two co-founders, johnLiotier and Chris Jensen, live

(25:31):
from Focusrite, where theyshared how their innovative use
of AI is reshaping the travelindustry.
If you missed it, we highlyrecommend going back to hear
their inspiring story ofbuilding one of the fastest
growing, profitable AI companiesin travel.
Entirely bootstrapped Travel AIis revolutionizing the industry
by blending AI-poweredefficiency with personalized,
human-centered travelexperiences.
From micro-segmentation totailored travel solutions, their

(25:54):
mission is to enhance everytraveler's journey while setting
the pace for travel's future.
Here's how you can join theexciting mission.
If you or someone you know intech or AI is looking for a new
career that combines innovationand impact, then head to
travelaicom or follow them onLinkedIn to explore more
opportunities.
They are growing fast.
Thanks again for your continuedsupport.
Are you looking for ways togrow your travel business

(26:16):
through paid media and optimizedSEO?
Then you have to check out ourfriends at Propelliccom.
They are the leading digitalagency for growth in travel and
tourism.
Propellic offers bold digitalmarketing strategies to ensure
your travel company's success.
They have a remarkablemethodology that has actually
been implemented by TravelAIcom,and they are a leading SEO

(26:37):
agency globally and offer arange of resources a podcast of
their own, a blog on theirwebsite, propelliccom.
That's P-R-O-P-E-L-L-I-Ccom,and don't forget to mention
Travel Trends for your freemarketing audit.
Hey, travelers, are you lookingto book your next adventure?
Then you have to meet our goodfriends at Flight Center, the

(27:00):
travel-obsessed experts ready tomake your next dream trip a
reality.
For over 40 years they've beenopening up the world to
travelers from the UK, australia, new Zealand and now.
Flight Center Canada iscelebrating an incredible
milestone 30 years of helpingCanadians explore the globe.
From their first store inVancouver in 1995 to becoming

(27:20):
the official travel agencypartner of the Toronto Raptors
this year, they've been at theforefront of delivering travel
experiences.
At Flight Centre, travel ismore than a passion.
It's their expertise.
From flights and accommodationsto cruises and tours and even
business travel, they handle itall, whether it's crafting a
tailor-made trip or tacklinggroup bookings.
They've got you covered, pluswith exclusive perks like their

(27:43):
new bundle and save $500 on tourand cruise packages.
There's never been a bettertime to plan your getaway, from
the smallest getaways to thebiggest bucket list trips, your
travel goals are just a call ora click away.
Visit flightcenterca slashtravel trends to explore the
latest deals, learn aboutemerging travel trends and start
planning your next trip.

(28:05):
And now back to the show.
I want to get into technologyand how that relates.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you've built out the
technology platform atRailbookers and then we'll get
into AI specifically.
But, yeah, tell us a little bitabout do you see yourself as a
technology company?
I think that was always one ofthe things that I guess I would
say I struggled with whencompanies like Expedia would say

(28:27):
we're a technology company andthe travel corporation is like
we're actually a travel companywho is getting pretty good at
technology, but at the same time, the core business is offering
great guest experiences,handling the operations.
That's how that operationalexcellence was how that business
thrived, and so that's firstand foremost, with a company
like Railbookers, how do youapproach that in terms of the

(28:50):
guest experience and thetechnology?
And, yeah, talk me through howyou guys have built out this
platform and the team that'sdoing it.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Sure, sure.
So we look at ourselves as surea technology first.
But we're not a technologycompany.
We're a customer service,guest-focused company, because
at the end of the day someone'staking a vacation or a holiday.
We're a want, not a need, andwe recognize someone could have
saved their whole life to takethis trip and we take that real
seriously.
So that's kind of how we leadit For our technology ourselves.

(29:20):
We have our own softwareengineers and built out our own
platforms, our own internal hubswith rail and all different
sightseeing.
So we have that as well and wekeep advancing that with one
goal how do we make it easierfor the customer and the travel
advisor to get the answers thatthey need?
And simplify rail travel,because that can be complicated.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, that's exciting .
So now let's jump into theimportant topic that everyone
wants to hear us discuss, whichis AI.
So talk us through your journeyaround wrapping your head
around AI and why you decided togo to MIT and take this course.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
So AI has been around for a while, as we know.
But reading a lot about AI twoyears ago and then when ChatGBT
came out and just reading asmuch as I can as many books,
harvard Business Review,everything I could read about it
and then I saw a course comeout as a week-long course at MIT
, going leading a company in AI,and I took it and it really was
a game changer for me, certainthings in your life, and that

(30:12):
was absolutely a game changer,not just obviously the school,
the professors, the cohorts, thefriends that I've made after,
but just seeing theopportunities for ai.
And the thing I would say is inthat course, you know we had
people from the dod, insurancecompany, medical companies.
You know serious companies withserious restrictions will
travel.
You don't have those kind ofrestrictions.

(30:33):
So the what we can do with aiand seeing all how other
companies are handling wherethey may have some restrictions,
we don't.
It was just limitless and we'vereally starting from that.
A year ago we engaged the wholecompany immediately in AI and I
can go through some examples.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
So, yes, I would love for you to be able to share
what were the big takeaways fromyou.
I mean, it's always challengingto discuss this topic simply
because there is so many layersof understanding like beginner,
intermediate, advanced.
Obviously, you went in there sothat you could get to at least
intermediate.
And actually, one of the termsI had just heard from PWC at a
session at the Forbes TravelGuide Summit, the summit in

(31:10):
Monaco was moving from AIexperimentation to AI excellence
, which is what organizationswant to be able to do.
It's like no longer just playingaround with some chatbots.
It's like, well, how do webuild this into the core of the
company?
And I do feel very stronglythat we're going through another
one of those shifts that's assignificant as the dot-com era
and maybe even more significantthan the mobile era, when we

(31:31):
were starting to design formobile first.
It's like we're now in a veryAI first world and we're at the
earliest stages.
I'm a huge baseball fan, so I'mlike this is barely the top of
the first inning, right Totally.
But tell us what were some ofthe big takeaways and learnings
for you that you think would beinteresting to all of our
listeners.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Sure.
So the biggest takeaway is alot of companies focus, I
noticed right away on AI interms of how can we do things
not only faster, but you don'tneed as much labor to do that.
Right, and sure, that'simportant.
But I immediately looked at itmore on how do we make it easier
from a guest experience image,focus on the customer, the front
end first.
So what we did and some of thetakeaways coming back were we

(32:07):
looked at every position in thecompany and broke it down and
just said broke it down by tasksand functions and what can be a
human, what can be a machine.
So we did that first.
The second thing we did is wegot an enterprise license for
everyone in the company atChatGBT and just told them to
play with it.
We gave them some restrictions,but just play with it.
And then every week we'd havedifferent team members in

(32:28):
different departments come upwith what they came up with to
make it easy with the wholefocus of how do we make this
easier for our customer andtravel agent.
That could be knowledge andeverything and that's really
expanded.
We finished last year with ourown global summit, basically
with a combination of AI andhuman, and we had an expert in

(32:49):
AI present to us and we had LeeCockrell, the former executive
VP of Disney World, talk somecustomer service and bringing
them both together and that'sreally our focus.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
So tell us how you with those examples, obviously
with getting the team membersengaged and I love that because
obviously my role for many yearsthe travel corporations is
chief digital officer, which Ilaugh at that title now because
even friends of me at the timesay isn't all travel digital now
but you're trying to drivechange across an organization.
So trying to give someone thattitle that will actually help
the organization evolve andadapt and certainly my
experience there was that changeis hard and that you know and

(33:17):
we're all creatures of habit andthere is a natural aversion to
trying something new.
So giving people the tools andencouraging them to play with it
Not everyone's going to excelat that but obviously
highlighting the people that areembracing it.
So yeah, so very important.
Obviously building a culture ofinnovation at rail bookers, but
in terms of actuallyimplementing it in a way that's

(33:37):
meaningful for the consumer oreven for efficiency games, for
reducing costs, what has beensome of the benefits that you've
realized of leveraging thattechnology?

Speaker 1 (33:46):
So lots of different benefits and, just to go back, I
think engaging the wholecompany, starting with myself,
leading it, sharing with themand giving it to all of them,
and then having real examples ofwhat I was learning every week,
what they're learning, goteveryone on board.
So our whole team's on board.
They're really excited about itbecause it's not fearful like,
oh, is this going to take awaymy job?
Job may be upscale, but we wantto share with everyone and some
of the learnings have beenanything from sure helping out

(34:09):
on the creativity side, on themarketing side, campaign side,
but also the large amounts ofdata we collect and we collect
tons of data and to be able tobreak that down immediately into
usable data that can beactionable towards our customers
, towards our travel agent, hasbeen instrumental.
The amount of times it wouldtake to go through this amount
of data huge, but we can gothrough every single aspect of

(34:30):
the company.
Everything is simple, from ourHR department taking our
handbook, putting it in a closedAI.
So instead of waiting for HR toemail back, you can just ask
every benefit question it cananswer for Something as simple
as that to large amounts of datathat all of a sudden speak to
you in a way that it hadn'tbefore, because it would just
take too long to aggregate.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, I love that and this is where trying to
understand how these practicalapplications there was a
colleague that I got a chance tomeet.
He was actually in Quebec CityJP Deschanaux is his name and
he's a lawyer by training.
He decided to kind of step back.
He's a very young, successfulguy, similar to yourself in many
ways, frank, but he decided tocreate AI solutions within his

(35:11):
travel companies and he was nottechnical and he just started
embracing the technology and heactually ran a session and he
did a 30-minute presentation tocreate a travel business
literally from scratch theconcept, the brand name, the
website and even launched amarketing campaign with a
commercial all in 30 minutes.
These are things that you and Iwould know would take at least

(35:33):
three months or six months orlonger, and he did it in 30
minutes using AI tools and itblew everyone's mind and I was
incredibly impressed by it.
But one of the things he'dhighlighted to me when I had a
chance to chat with himafterwards, he was showing me
how he took chat, gpt, makecomand Gmail and with one of his
team members that was spending800 hours a year responding to
emails and set up an automatedsolution where it literally

(35:55):
makecom took the email fromgmail, fed it to chat gpt and
then replied with a response andit reduced her hours by 600
hours a year unbelievable downto 200.
And he's like I'm not lookingto replace her, I'm not actually
, I'm just trying to actuallymake our more efficient and so
yeah, so please, let's continueon a couple other examples,
because I'm sure, like this iswhere someone like you who's
gone ahead, got that learningfor yourself, brought that

(36:18):
innovation to the business.
You're only at the beginningstages of realizing all the
benefits.
So, yeah, tell us a few moreexamples of how you're using it
and also, if you wouldn't mind,frank, how you're, I guess,
reorganizing your business tomake sure that you are more of
an AI first AI led organization,that you can realize all the
benefits of this technology.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Oh yeah, going back to your point earlier.
I mean, we are literally at thefirst inning, and even myself
the first inning.
So we're constantly pushing it.
And where we are now is Ichallenge the team, saying look
at every single thing you doevery single day, every single
task, put it in AI, use AI forit and the learnings so they
become faster.
But other things doing with it.
We'll take contracts as anexample.

(36:56):
Put them in our closed AI andbasically say, hey, look at this
contract, what's it missing?
What questions should we ask?
Are we negotiating it correctly?
So everything you can imaginethat we're using it for, in a
way to help better ourselves andto make sure that it's usable,
and we're saving hours on thingswith the whole idea of we want
to make it better for ourcustomer and travel advisor,

(37:19):
other things that we're doing.
Just as an example, even myselfpersonally, I'm going back to
MIT in a few weeks takinganother second two-week course,
advanced course, to continue onthe journey, because already in
a year what's changed?
It's unbelievable how fast it'smoving.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah and I think most of us are also just can't
believe.
We're kind of astonished at thepace of change, because even
with the latest operator model,where you know, now you can
actually have an agent booktravel on your behalf.
What does that mean?
Even the fact that we're movingbeyond this age of search
engine optimization and actuallyfiguring out how to design
websites for AI agents that canactually read them and interpret

(37:55):
the information so all thesethings are being kind of thrust
upon us very quickly.
I mean, half of travelers noware using AI to create their
itineraries.
Whether you like it or not,it's happening and people are
embracing this technology and,as you say, it's still early.
So what are some of the thingsyou're paying attention to, I
guess, in the travel industry,or specifically in the rail,
with how you think this is goingto impact and change our

(38:17):
business?

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, I think one way definitely, people are
searching with AI that's likeyou talked about, that.
That's no doubt, no question.
And when they're searchinggeneral AI, as an example, there
are hallucinations.
So sometimes we'll even get acall from a customer saying I
want to take this route fromhere to here, but that route
doesn't exist anymore.
That was washed out years ago.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's not just because there's actually a tunnel
underneath or a boat, actually.
No, it's a boat, it's literallyhallucinating.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
That doesn't even exist.
That doesn't even exist.
So for us, that's why one ofthe things we're doing is we're
building out our own data lake,AI.
We have since last year, Ihired one of my classmates who
was in my MIT course and him andour innovation team are
building out our own AI,data-like knowledge-based system
with those secret sauce we haveon the rail.

(39:02):
So that's one side.
The other thing I can say is youknow, with AI, it's really just
playing with it, and thebiggest thing that I'm finding,
I think for everyone, is it'sreally how to ask questions.
It's prompting and that'ssomething you're learning and
we're getting more and more.
I think everyone is advancedover time.
It's all in the betterquestions you ask AI.
It's really a dialogue, not amonologue.

(39:22):
And just one quick story when Ifinished that MIT course, I went
to visit my son in college andmy son is on the spectrum with
autism and I went to see him andhe didn't know I was coming
from MIT and he wanted to showme his presentation for his
course and he did a presentationon AI and he came up with this
concept, not knowing where Ijust came from, and said you

(39:43):
know, Dad, I came up with thisfor people like me who have
learning disabilities, becauseit's a full-time tutor.
It breaks things down to makeit simple for me and I don't
have to feel stupid askingquestions.
And I was blown away, but thatstuck with me in terms of how
our company, our customers, useAI to make it easier to do their
day-to-day in a faster, moreefficient way, and so that's

(40:04):
kind of a foundation we look atto make it better for our
customers.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, I like what you described there and obviously I
appreciate you mentioning sucha personal story with your son,
because, on a human level, howis this going to impact us
individually or our familymembers, but also, given our
specific needs, one of thethings that I think Sachin Adela
has done an incredible job atMicrosoft.
His son, zane, who sadly passedaway just recently, was born

(40:28):
with many difficulties and itwas one of the things that he
talked about was that at firsthe had this overwhelming kind of
sense of why me, when his sonwas born that way and it was
just like, and then he realizedthat it was a really an
opportunity and a gift tounderstand how people can
function in the world with thesechallenges and how you can need

(40:49):
to be compassionate, which isanother wonderful human
qualities of empathy, sounderstanding how your son
functions and like high needsand then like leveraging
technology now.
So, anyway, that's a reallymeaningful story.
I appreciate you sharing that.
I guess that's where I want togo to.
Next is if we move beyond AI andwe think about how humans are

(41:10):
traveling, because, again, thisis where I don't ever want to
get too far either ahead ofourselves or also lose the human
touch Because, at the end ofthe day, we are sitting in front
of each other in berlin at aconference physical, in person,
and, as much as the worldchanges, there is this human
desire to connect totally in thereal world.
We're social creatures and it'slike you know.
There's also the concern thatyou know we're more disconnected

(41:32):
than ever this whole lonelinessepidemic.
We're spending so much time onsocial media.
There are obviously negativeconsequences associated with
some of this rapid technologicalchange.
So if we just bring it back ona human level and we think about
how people are traveling in2025, obviously rails will go
back to that as part of it.
But I would just like tounderstand what sort of shifts
you're seeing in consumerbehavior, and that can be

(41:56):
anything from, you know,wellness or luxury or some of
the things that I guess whatyou're seeing there.
I would call them signals thatyou're kind of like you're
hearing from your guests or yourcustomers as they're reaching
out to you to say I like thistrip, but can you also do this,
or do you have that?
What are some of the othersignals you're paying attention
to about how consumer behavioris changing?

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Sure.
So what we definitely see istwo major things.
One I like to call littleluxury.
So everyone likes luxury, but Ifind a lot of little luxury
because everyone's traveling fora special occasion.
But hey, in that one city Iwant to have special experience,
I want to stay at a higherhotel, just in that one because
it's my anniversary.
So we're seeing a realcontinuous of little luxury.

(42:33):
I call it across the board.
And the other thing is theexperiences.
People are absolutely lookingfor experiences, whether it's
culinary experience, sightseeingexperience, to touch it, to
feel it, to smell it, to get outthere.
And they're looking at everyarea about how do I have an
experience in that destination?
That's relative to what'simportant to me.
So we're constantly adding moreand more experience.
But that's customer and travelagent driven.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Interesting.
Okay, that's a cool trend.
All right, that's one to payattention, to Give us a few more
.
That are like are those signalsthat you're just like, wait a
second, there's an opportunityhere?
Because I think that's whatreally excites me about some of
these conversations is that allof a sudden you can kind of
untap a market opportunity,whether it be, and obviously

(43:16):
maybe some of this other signals, if you wouldn't mind, that you
and the team are payingattention to.
Because, as I heard justrecently, here we are in 2025.
And in the cruise industry,nearly 70% of the cruises are
sold out for 2025.
And everyone's quickly tryingto launch 2026 and beyond.
So I'm not sure how thatcompares with the world of rail
travel, but I'm assuming you'realready planning for 26.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Oh, we've already got bookings for 26.
So what I would say, shout outto the cruise line.
So thank you guys for comingout with pricing so earlier,
because we benefit from that.
So when I created this model 13years ago, I basically said,
hey, let's price two years out,and every year every night we
price two years in a day, whichdoesn't really exist on rails.
So we do that and part of thatwas due to the fact of, with

(43:57):
cruise lines coming out so early, the demand we get.
We don't sell cruises but forpeople that want to do
post-cruise their own thing, sowe do like a ton as an example
in Basel.
I use Basel as an example,switzerland, where we'll get
calls from travel advisors andcustomers that, well, we're
finishing in Basel but we don'twant to fly home.
Can we take the train and godown to St Moritz for a few
nights and then we would go downto San Como for a few nights

(44:17):
and then down to Venice.
So we're seeing wild productgrowth all over the place which
is pre and post-cruise drivenbecause they're already going
over there.
That's a huge trend we see andas the cruise lines come back so
strong, we're benefiting thaton the pre and post-end
organically.
So we're very thankful for ourcruise and river cruise friends.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
That's really something Ilearned from the cruise industry
as well Ellen Betridge, who wework with.
She came from Ocean Cruise andthen to river, and a lot of
things that she actually broughtinto their travel corporation
business was this idea offorward bookings, Like you know.
Get it out as early as possibleand give people a chance to
book two years ahead and theywill, and it's remarkable.
Let's bring it back toRailbookers and where you're

(44:58):
headed in the next two to threeyears, your vision for this
business.
Tell us a little bit about yourgrowth plans and your ambitions
.
You talked about AI.
We talked about the remotefirst culture, which I love that
you're continuing because itseems to be under attack in many
organizations, which I'm suregives you the opportunity to
hire some great people thatmaybe don't want to go back to
the office with other companiesgives you the opportunity to

(45:18):
hire some great people thatmaybe don't want to go back to
the office with other companies.
And I learned from quite a wisebusinessman at one point when he
made a comment to me as I wasworking on social media
guidelines as ridiculous as thatseems now, but trying to
implement social media acrossthe business and making sure you
had very kind of rigid orstrict guidelines of what people
can or couldn't do and thecomment he made to me was like,
well, if you don't trust them,why did you hire them?
And I think that applies toremote working is that you can

(45:40):
get some of the best people thatwill thrive in that environment
and do their best work for you,and they love the flexibility
and so yeah, but tell us alittle bit about where you guys
are headed in the next year ortwo?

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Sure.
So on the remote side, we'regoing to continue that.
It's been five years fullyremote and we would not be able
to scale at the level we aretoday if we weren't remote.
Because now when we hire aposition, we say where on earth
should that position be,regardless of its software
engineer, marketing, sales,because it keeps the machine
going all the time.
The second, we can hire thebest people.
And third, I will say our staffis at a religious level,

(46:14):
supportive of the company,because they get to work
remotely.
And I'll give you a stat Lastyear alone I think we had almost
100,000 applications to work atour company because of being
remote.
So we really have our pick.
On the growth side, we see railas, just again, it's the new
river cruising.
It's not something we'll beopening up in Singapore as a

(46:35):
source market to tap into theASEAN countries and then expand
after that to be closer to 60%of the world's population.
And interesting, when I went toSingapore last year to meet
with some partners aboutlaunching the appetite for rail
is extraordinary.
And then lack of knowledge ofrail is not there, but the
appetite to do it as well.
So we're going to continue thatgrowth pattern around the world

(46:55):
, because rail is a commondenominator for no matter where
you're from.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
For sure, and I'm sure people will be reaching out
to you after this foropportunities to work with you.
One of our sponsors, travel AI,has kindly highlighted to us
the number of people that havereached out to them for career
opportunities just hearing themendorsing our podcast and
learning more about theirbusiness and just being totally
fascinated by what they do.
So everything that you'vehighlighted to me I think that's
will certainly be one of thebenefits I look forward to
hearing from you about is thepeople that are listening to
this and saying wait a second,frank is a great guy, this is a

(47:24):
very cool company and this isthe kind of culture that I want
to embrace.
We'll be right back.
Attention, travelers and traveladvisors.
Are you looking to elevate yourtravel experience beyond the
ordinary?
Then you have to say hello toour good friends at Colette,

(47:44):
where guided travel gets apremium upgrade.
For over 100 years, colette hasbeen crafting expertly guided
tours that go beyond thestereotypes.
With over 170 tours across allseven continents, colette offers
something for every type oftraveler, from culturally
immersive small group journeysto single city stays and even
river cruises.
And with their industry leadingtravel protection plan, you can
cancel for any reason up to 24hours before departure.
Plus, when you book air withColette, they even offer a

(48:08):
private chauffeur service to andfrom the airport.
Discover why travelers loveColette and why guided travel is
thriving.
Join the evolution of travel.
Today at GoColettecom.
Your next adventure awaits oftravel.
Today at GoCollettecom.
Your next adventure awaitsthat's GoCollettecom.
Hey, travel publishers andcontent creators, if you're
searching for a fresh way toboost your revenue, then look no

(48:30):
further than our friends atStay22.
Their AI-powered solutions workseamlessly in the background,
adding an extra stream ofrevenue without altering any of
your site's setup.
In 2024 alone, their tools havepowered more than 2 billion
pages and helped their partnersgenerate more than $500 million
in GMV.
It's time for you to joinsuccessful partner programs like

(48:53):
Matador Network and Weatherbugand elevate your earnings.
Today, just go to stay22.comslash traveltrends and you'll
get details on an exclusiveoffer just for Travel Trends
listeners.
That's stay22.com slashtraveltrends.
In today's fast-paced travelindustry, businesses face

(49:15):
constant challenges keeping upwith new technologies, meeting
ever-evolving customerexpectations and promoting
products effectively.
The real struggle Managing itall in-house.
That's where TravelTech stepsin to transform your business.
With over 25 years ofexperience, traveltech is one of
the most trusted names intravel technology, offering
tailored solutions to fit yourunique needs.

(49:36):
They make it easy to createseamless, bookable websites,
manage and promote products andautomate everyday tasks, giving
your team more time to focus onwhat matters most your customers
.
Plus Travel Tech is the go-toname in cruise technology, with
cutting-edge solutions for touroperators as well.
Plus Travel Tech has justlaunched Tech Talk, a new

(49:59):
podcast for travel professionals, by travel professionals.
Explore the stories behind thebiggest innovations in travel.
Visit traveltechcom slashtraveltrends or tune in to Tech
Talk on Spotify and Apple.
That's traveltechcom slashtraveltrends and Tech Talk on
Spotify and Apple podcasts.

(50:20):
And now back to the show.
Before we wrap up, I had a fewfinal questions for you, so
you've told us a little bitabout what's next for
railbookers.
I would love for you to sharetwo pieces of advice, and then
I'm going to ask you one closingquestion.
But one of the pieces of adviceI'd love for you to share is
for aspiring entrepreneurs orleaders, because you have gone
from essentially an intrapreneurin many ways, which is a term

(50:40):
that has been around for a while, but I don't think that someone
who's truly entrepreneurial bynature but is able to navigate a
corporate environment and Ithink that is something that I
would say that we have in common, and I think that's why I was
as successful as I was in thecorporate world, even though I
was always an entrepreneur.
But you just find a way to getthings done and make things
happen.
There's a sort of a mentalityaround an entrepreneur that you

(51:01):
just like it's just, you don'ttake no for an answer and just
keep finding your way forward,right and um, and it ends up
propelling you in the corporateworld because you're not just
stuck in your role, in yourparadigm, right.
So, and then here we are, likeand this is where, like you know
, everyone's told me you got tomeet Frank and like, it's just
so impressive and it's like andtruly you are.
And so I guess what I wouldalso like you to share with our
listeners, for that person outthere that could benefit from

(51:23):
your advice, what, what wouldyou share with them to make
their way in their career?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
So two things I think .
One is, if you're lucky enoughto have the right mentor, you
know who you work for and I'vebeen very lucky to you know.
My mentors are Dan Sullivan,executive chairman of Collette,
brett Tolman, richard Laundererthose are my mentors, dave
Hosking and all took me undertheir wing and to have them as

(51:48):
leaders as I was coming up wasjust phenomenal, you know and to
learn from them as fast as youcan.
So that would be the firstthing who you're working for and
try to get learn as much as youcan.
So that would be the firstthing who you're working for and
try to learn as much as you can.
The second thing, which isreally a simple one, but it gets
overlooked many times, iscontinually to focus on the
customer and listen to them andwhat they're asking, whether
that's a travel agent customer,the end customer and too many

(52:09):
times I think people, especiallyin travel, they fall into what
they like and not what thecustomer likes or what they're
buying or the questions.
And we're adamant about payingattention to that and developing
everything exactly on that,because you're immediately
successful, because you'refulfilling what's out there
versus what you think will besuccessful.
So those would be the twothings.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
That's a great group of individuals there.
I highly respect all of themand I'm glad that you recognize
them.
I'm obviously familiar withBrett and Richard and Dave, and
I've just come to understandmore about Dan Sullivan and the
Sullivan family, having workedwith the team over at Collette,
and it's very much afamily-owned company similar
culture and dynamics.
So interesting that you've hadthose two experiences.

(52:49):
The other one I wanted to sharewith everyone in terms of
advice was any AI tools orplatforms or just for someone
getting started on their journey.
I don't want to miss thatopportunity to ask you, given
the conversation we've had, whatwould be your recommendations
advice to kind of get started onyour journey, or some practical
, actionable tips.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
You know there's a, there's a lot of, there's a
couple of things.
So so I would say, on the AIside, is you got to get into and
just play around with it?
I use all of them.
You know chat, but I use Poe.
Poe is the one I use the mostbecause it can search all other
AIs and you can have it runthrough Mistral and Cloud and a
few others.
So that is some great AInewsletters out there and I
follow a number of AI innovatorson X to just see what's coming

(53:31):
out and what's new and differenttrends.
So I would just keep it on theregular and then playing around
with it and seeing what's outthere, but just keeping yourself
educated, because even though,like, a lot of the things I read
are about a different industry,it has nothing to do with
travel, but I'm like, hey, I canapply that in this industry.
So that's most of what we do welook to see how another
industry is doing it and weapply it to ours.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah, that's great, fantastic advice, and I'll make
sure that we put some of thosein the show notes as well.
The last question I had for youand I also want to mention your
new book, because you kindlybrought a copy for me, which I
was thrilled about.
After we spoke on the phone,you were like, can I get your
address?
And I was like I'll buy it.
I'm happy to buy it because Iwant to support you, but it is
available on Amazon, so we cantalk about the book in a moment,

(54:11):
but the in a moment.
But the last thing I would loveto hear is much more on a
personal level, about one ofyour favorite rail travel
memories or experiences with youor your family.
What was that trip and why doesit stand out to you?

Speaker 1 (54:29):
You know there's two of them, but there's so many and
lucky enough to do so many, soone would be when my boys were
younger in 2013,.
We did the Empire Builder fromChicago a couple nights, did the
Empire Builder from Chicago acouple nights, did the Empire
Builder to Glacier National Parkfor a few nights and then
overnight to Seattle, and justwhen my kids were younger at
that age, taking that trip withthe bunks and the roomettes.
It was just.
You know, trains are cool forkids, so we all still talk about

(54:50):
that.
That would be one.
And then last year I got achance.
I was lucky enough to go fromVancouver right to Toronto on
Via Rail, on the Canadian, whichis iconic trains.
And lucky enough to be inprestige class and what an
amazing the amount of scenery,the different as you go into
Vancouver and the prairie landsand I mean Ontario is absolutely

(55:13):
amazing, Stunning.
We had a blast and just meetingsome of the coolest people on
the train, from Canadians,actually A lot of Canadians from
Vancouver Island, Australians.
It was just awesome.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
I appreciate bringing Canada into the conversation,
frank.
Obviously you know that's whereI'm based.
I'm based in Toronto andobviously it's a challenging
time for US-Canadianrelationships at the moment.
But I love the United States, Ilove Americans and I was saying
this to you before we sat down,and it's one of the things that
there are many challenges thatwe always can face in the travel
industry and we're obviouslyunder new challenging times and

(55:46):
I look forward to people like usfinding a way to navigate.
And I think, if anything, we'realso living in a time where the
types of conversations thatwe're having become that much
more important, because peopleare trying to pay attention to
the signals that they shouldfollow to figure out where the
business is today.
I mean, literally, this startedas a result of the pandemic and
what travel or behavior lookedlike on the other side.

(56:08):
And I'm realizing more and morefrom our guests and from our
listeners who keep reaching outto say, talk about the tariffs
or get into the geopolitics orget into these subjects, not to
be political but to actuallyhelp travel companies understand
how they should be navigatingthis challenging time, and
colleagues of mine, that alsocolleagues of yours that have
highlighted to me that bookingsdropped off substantially in

(56:31):
February of 2025, given some ofthis uncertainty, and what does
does that mean?
And you know, travel alwaysdoes come back and it comes back
different, or travelers choosenew destinations.
So so, anyway, I'm excited foryou for many reasons, based on
this incredible company you'vebuilt.
And, just to finish on thatvery positive note, let's talk
about staying on track lessonsfrom a customer focused travel

(56:53):
disruptor.
So what brought about this book?
Tell us a bit about it and howpeople can find it.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
So sure.
So we've been talking aboutthat for a while and my business
partner, John Tavano, and I.
He really pushed me to writethe book.
He's like you know, you've gotso much to say on this stuff and
customer-focused.
We should write a book on it.
So I decided to, and it wasabout a year and a half process,
let me tell you, but it was afun process.
But to go through every aspectabout really paying attention to

(57:20):
the customer and where there'sopportunities and if you can
satisfy their needs and makethem and you really listen to
them on a regular basis, it paysa pass to success and growth.
And that was really what it wasabout.
And talking a lot about howwe're using AI, talking about
how we're trying to give thebest customer service, but also
the questions.
Sometimes I talk a lot abouthow we're using AI, talking
about how we're trying to givethe best customer service, but
also the questions Sometimes Italk a lot about in the book.
It's really about the questionyou're trying to solve and that

(57:42):
may change over time, and you'reasking yourself those questions
and making sure that answersare from your customers.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah Well, even just looking at the table of contents
, I'm really looking forward toreading it.
But your story, our story, ourteam, product development,
marketing technology, literallyand AI, of course, the next
chapter in customer service, theglobal summit that you
mentioned, that you ran.
So I think there's lots I willlearn from this, and I'm sure
many others will as well.

(58:09):
So, Frank, I can't thank youenough for making the time for
this in your busy schedule hereat ITB Berlin.
I'm so glad we've had theopportunity to meet to get to
know each other now, and I justwanted to thank the Focusrite
team, because we're actuallysitting in their booth.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Yeah, who kindly gave us space to record at the back,
and you'll see some pictures ofthis on social media if you
want to check them out atDCTrips or at Travel Trends
Podcast.
There won't be any videohighlights because we've just
captured the audio here, butthere was many gems from this
conversation so we'll likely puta few clips out there.
But, yeah, frank, I want to saythank you.
I want to say congratulationson building such a strong

(58:45):
company and culture and clearlyyou're on a credible success
trajectory and I hope thatcontinues for many years to come
and I look forward tocontinuing our friendship.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Same here, Dan.
I just want to say thanks againtoo, and I just wanted to say
one thing I had the sameexperience when people were like
you haven't met Dan yet.
How do you not know Dan?
So, everyone, I'm so happy tomeet you in person.
Thank you so much and reallyappreciate the time and having
you consider me.
So thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Thanks so much for joining us on this two-part rail
series.
I hope you enjoyed with FrankMarini, the CEO of Railbookers.
I definitely encourage you tocheck out his book Staying on
Track Lessons from aCustomer-Focused Travel
Disruptor, which you can find onAmazon.
His chapter on productdevelopment was probably the
highlight of the book for me and, of course, I got the privilege

(59:29):
of having it signed.
So thanks again, frank, for thebook, for the time you made for
this conversation and certainlyexcited to see everything that
you and the team at Railbookershave planned for 2025 and beyond
.
So definitely check out thebook and also our social
channels.
You'll see some clips andhighlights from these
conversations on Instagram,youtube and LinkedIn, all at

(59:49):
Travel Trends Podcast.
And don't forget, we do sendout a monthly newsletter so you
can subscribe to be informed ofall the latest episodes from the
month and our travel plans fornext month.
You can register atTravelTrendsPodcastcom Now.
Next week, we're going to bestarting our guided touring
series, which is sponsored byour friends at TourOptimacom.

(01:00:10):
I'll be telling you more aboutthem next week, since they have
just launched with some majormulti-day tour partners, but
they also work with day tourbrands as well, with their white
label app to connect the guestswith their guides, and it's
some truly innovative technologyand we'll talk a bit more about
that as we get into the series.
But we have four extraordinaryindustry leaders.

(01:00:32):
We start with JacquelineLebel-Cote, who is the CEO of
Colette, and then we're going tospeak to the CMO of Globus, the
managing director of Explore inLondon, and then my old friend
Ben Hall, who is now in Sydney,australia, running AAT Kings.
So make sure that you aresubscribed on the streaming
platform of your choice so youget notified as soon as those

(01:00:54):
new episodes go live, which aretypically every Wednesday.
We also currently have ourForbes Travel Guide Special
Hospitality Series, season 2,launching every Thursday.
It's a special 10-part series,so make sure that you are
checking out some of thoseepisodes if you're interested in
the world of luxury hospitality.
And we will otherwise see younext week as we kick off our

(01:01:17):
deep dive into guided touring.
Have a great rest of the weekUntil next time.
Safe travels.