October 31, 2024 • 40 mins
Join us for an exciting conversation with Eva Fouquet, Strategic Partnerships, Accommodations & K4B at KAYAK, as we uncover the visionary leap KAYAK is making into the corporate travel sector. Eva reveals how KAYAK aims to disrupt the long-standing dynamics of business travel by translating its leisure travel expertise into innovative corporate solutions. Our episode promises insights into how strategic partnerships with firms like PwC and BlockSky are paving the way for a new era in corporate booking tools, blending ease, speed, and sophistication.
We soar into the future of business travel, where technology and AI reign supreme. KAYAK for Business is leading the charge, not by processing tickets directly, but by providing a robust search tool for airlines and hotels, integrated with travel management features. We explore how this tech-driven approach, coupled with innovations like APIs and blockchain, positions KAYAK at the forefront of transforming travel disruptions into manageable hiccups. Delve into the promising prospects of "bleisure" travel and strategic global market focus, painting a vibrant picture of the road ahead for travelers and the industry alike.
👉 Listen to The Future of Business Travel Part 2 with Eva Fouquet, SVP of KAYAK for Business Now
🔥 Season 4 Title Sponsors: Stay 22, TravelAI, Propellic and Northern Soul by Landsby
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and on today's
episode we're going to continueour focus on corporate travel.
We had some amazing feedback toour episode with Rich Liu, the
CEO of Navon, as they journeytowards an IPO in this massive
$1.5 trillion market.
And today we're going to bespeaking to Eva Foucault, who is
the Senior Vice President ofPartnerships, accommodation and,
(00:36):
specifically, kayak forBusiness.
As many of you know, I have thegreatest respect for Paul
English and Steve Hafner, whobuilt Kayak, and I had the
privilege to speak to PaulEnglish as we kicked off season
three.
So I was very keen to have thisconversation with Eva today to
understand exactly how Kayakdecided to enter the corporate
travel market given that manybusiness travelers were already
(00:56):
using the platform already butexactly how they decided to
approach this with partners andbe able to pitch their platform.
So, on that note, let meintroduce you to Eva Foucault
from Kayak.
Eva, it's great to have youwith us.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thank you, Dan.
It's a pleasure to be here withyou.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Absolutely.
I've been really lookingforward to this and I know that
you're based in Bordeaux.
You're in France, so your roleis very global at Kayak and
we're going to have afascinating conversation today
about kayak for business, whichI'm really intrigued, because we
interviewed the CEO of Navonrecently on our podcast and my
background, interestingly enough, is in corporate travel.
That was actually my first rolein the travel industry, was
(01:35):
working at Carlson Wagonley andbuilding a corporate travel
booking tool, so I'm sointrigued about business,
especially on the other side ofthe pandemic.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background and how you came
into this role at Kayak.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, so my background is really about
travel.
I've done my entire career inthe troll industry.
So 17 years ago I startedworking for an online troll
agency in Europe and then Idecided to move to Australia to
discover another country andwork from another country, and I
(02:08):
worked there for a meta-searchcalled Hotels Combined for six
years and after that, kayak cameinto the picture, because Kayak
actually bought Hotels Combinedand that was the start of the
story with Kayak.
It's been, yeah, 17 years, 10years with autos combined and
kayak in the meta search world.
(02:30):
So I think, yeah, troll foundme, choose me at first and I
never left it and I love itactually that's terrific.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, clearly we have that in common for sure,
because when kayak firstlaunched, I remember it very
clearly because there wasanother startup called Sidestep
that had been introduced and Iwas totally intrigued by
Sidestep.
But interestingly, paul andSteve acquired Sidestep, which
was actually from Kayak.
So fascinating story of themeta search wars and kayak
(03:02):
buying sidestep and thenultimately, as you well know, in
the journey, being acquired byPriceline or bookingcom and
being part of that group, butthey've retained their
independence.
I had Paul on the beginning oflast season Paul English which
was a fascinating conversation.
He was reminding me about someof the fundamental principles of
kayak in the very early days,and one of the key things was
(03:23):
speed, was trying to make surethat he could produce results
faster than anybody else andthat was going to be their
competitive advantage.
So I'm so keen to have thisconversation with you about the
business side.
So let's go right into that.
Which is what motivated kayakto focus on the business travel
sector, and I guess specificallywhat I'm keen to know is
exactly that, which is that howis kayak positioned itself to
(03:43):
differentiate from the otherbusiness platforms that are out
there?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, it's a funny story.
Actually, it started a fewyears ago when we were looking
for a tool ourselves, what touse for our business trouble and
we just realized that thisindustry was a bit broken just
in terms of user experience.
This industry was a bit brokenjust in terms of user experience
, content, payment methods.
We could see that something wasa bit wrong and off there, so
(04:11):
we started to look into it andsee what we could do with what
we had as Kayak.
Our DNA is about content.
As you know, it's been 20 yearsand you just mentioned Kayak,
but on the leisure side, it'sbeen 20 years that we got
focused on content and speed andgiving the best offer to our
(04:31):
users.
So we looked into that and, atthe same time, actually at an
opportunity, pwc and BlockSkycame to us and they were looking
for a partner to really make into, to bring innovation into
the industry and really make adifference, really make a change
, because we all thought that'syeah, it's been a long time that
(04:54):
the same players, samesuppliers are are in the
industry and we think companieswere a bit tired actually of
this bad user experience, lackof content and so on.
So we decided to build ittogether and that's where
everything started.
So that's really the backgroundof the story of how we started
in the business struggle.
I see it like as an opportunityhappened with a client and
(05:17):
BlockSky that has been in theindustry forever as well, been
in the industry forever as well.
So combining our skills was, wethought, perfect, perfect
combination to disrupt thisindustry.
And then we started to buildand think about, okay, what's
(05:37):
the description and where wewant it to end.
So we had a clear idea where wewanted to start.
So it's really about, if youlook, we have two different
targets.
So you have the SMB, so smalland medium businesses and
enterprise.
If we start looking atenterprise because I just
mentioned PwC, which is anenterprise line, it's a big
company with a significanttravel spend so what we're doing
(06:01):
is that we're streamliningbasically the shopping
experience from A to that andwe're really mirroring what you
would get on an airline website.
What do I mean by that?
It's how many times have youbooked an airline flight and you
(06:22):
call the airline and you wantto change your ticket but you
can't and they don't have accessto your ticket because you
basically bought it on an OTA,for example.
That happens so many times topeople in the past.
So that's in a nutshell whatwe're fixing.
We are connecting directly withthe suppliers with new
(06:42):
technologies, new APIs that havebeen built by the suppliers,
and we're meeting the usereverywhere, anywhere after that.
So if he wants to go in theairline app to change his
booking, for example, we'regoing to be able to do that.
If he wants to go at theairport to go to the desk, talk
to someone, we can do that.
We will find his bookinganywhere.
(07:03):
So it's really like making thetraveler experience much easier,
from the booking during thebooking after.
We're going to meet himeverywhere.
So that's really a big piece ofconnecting directly with the
airline, new technology, directtrue direct, we call it and
being able to meet the traveleranywhere.
(07:23):
And through this technologywe're also able to eliminate the
expense reports.
So that's another big piece inthe innovation that we're doing
with BlockSky Pay that reallyallow us to have the supplier
directly connected with thecompany.
So no more expense report.
So no more expense report.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, that's a critical part of corporate
travel expense reports, anecessary component that
definitely makes life easier fornot only making your bookings
and managing your trip, but justmaking sure that you're not
filling out those expensereports at the end of the month
to try and itemize all of thoseitems that you tried to
freestyle and purchase on yourown.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
One of the things I'd love to ask you, eva, based on
your role and going into this,you've been at Kayak for nearly
six years.
You were there pre-pandemic, ofcourse, in 2019, focusing on
partnerships, and thentransitioned to the corporate,
the business side, in 2021,which obviously was kind of
getting towards the other side.
We weren't quite there yet.
It took another year, 2022, andthen, all of a sudden, we've
(08:24):
had these banner years in 2023and 2024.
The part I wanted to ask youwas that during that time, there
was clearly a big questionabout business travel on the
other side of the pandemic.
Will travel come back and whatwill it look like?
And that was obviously thetheme of this show, and part of
the reason I think it'sresonated with our listeners is
that certain behaviors havechanged post-pandemic and some
(08:45):
have remained the same, and it'sinteresting to speak to experts
like yourself and try andunderstand exactly what the
landscape looks like today,since you sit in a very
privileged position of havingaccess to the data and
understanding the strategy atKayak for Business, and so I
just wanted to go back to that,because I'm very keen to
understand how the decisionswere made to decide to focus on
(09:05):
it.
I totally get it and it wasdoing some homework, of course,
before our conversation and theidea that the positioning was
that Kayak wanted a better wayto manage your own business,
travel for your own team, andyou realize that, with limited
inventory and some of theoutdated interfaces that you've
decided to build your own, whichagain makes total sense.
But that's obviously based onthe fact that your team people
(09:26):
like yourself need to travelagain, and that was that big
question after all these Zoommeetings, believe me, I'm happy
that for the most part, that'snot a reality anymore.
But a lot of people started tosay wait a second, do you need
to fly for meetings?
Can we not do everything inthis virtual world?
And people were workingremotely, and the one thing I'll
just say, and I'll hand it overto you, is that one of the big
trends that we've certainly seenin hotels that I'm sure you're
(09:49):
across is that with the rise ofremote work and less corporate
offices, we've actually seen adramatic increase in the need
people to book hotels and holdconferences and hold quarterly
meetings, and so it's created awhole new opportunity for the
hotel and accommodation sector.
That has affected office leasesthey're empty but hotels are
(10:09):
full, so it's just amazing howour world continues to morph and
change.
So tell us a little bit, just interms of how you guys decided
to go into the business travelsector and I guess why I'm
focusing on that is just I thinkmost people don't necessarily
have a great grasp of just howbig an industry it actually is,
and so did you guys feel asthough it was going to come back
(10:32):
and that now you guys couldplay a pivotal role as business
travel comes back.
So I'd love to just get yourviews on this sector.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, no, super interesting question.
Yeah, no, super interestingquestion.
I think when everythinghappened, we strongly believed
still that business travel wouldcome back.
We didn't know when and by howmuch.
It was clear that we knew thatthe world would have changed and
how we would travel wouldchange.
(11:01):
But we strongly believe that,even though we're so remote now
and we have Zoom every day we'reall on video calls you still
need at some point to meet yourpartner or to meet your teams.
So I think it was clear thatbusiness travel wouldn't
disappear.
(11:22):
The industry was broken at thattime.
Pwc came in the future, so itmade complete sense to try to
build a new product and reallyget into it, and we strongly
believe that we had the rightDNA and technology in place to
really get into it quickly andbuild the right product.
(11:43):
And that's what happened and wemade the right choice, I
believe, because then businesstravel was slower.
It took more time than leisure.
I think people were desperateto go out and really go for
leisure and really enjoytraveling.
Business travel took more time,but now the spend and volumes
are coming back to a prettydecent level, so we're really
(12:04):
happy to be in the game.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
For sure, and I know you started to touch on this.
But I also want to just go backto the typical customer.
You mentioned SMB and Iremember that very clearly from
pitching multiple accounts onthe business side, because you
clearly have the small tomedium-sized business companies
and then you have largeraccounts, large enterprise
customers.
So those are the two primaryfocuses, and how are you going
about building thoserelationships?
(12:26):
Because I know from myexperience in this space there's
a lot of pitching andpresentations and like it does
take an extended period of timeto take over an account and even
if you've got a great brandlike Kayak and a great
technology platform, you stillhave to convince them you've got
the inventory, you've got thepricing and that you're going to
be able to service their needs.
So yeah, so how are you and theteam building that trust and
confidence?
(12:46):
And tell us a little bit moreabout who the target profiles
and I'm asking that because I'msure there's lots of people are
going to be listening to this,trying to figure out is kayak
business for me?
And so I'd love for you toaddress those please.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So first we take the time at kayak and we want to
make sure.
You've seen, they took us a bitof time because we started a
few years ago to build theseproducts.
We wanted really the productsto be ready and to go out there
not making noise just to makenoise, but be ready with both
products.
So now we're really like happywith SMB products and the
(13:19):
enterprise one.
So it's completely differentand you kind of started to take
all that SMB, small and mediumcompanies.
So we built a product of theshelves let's say like really
easy to get to.
So we built a product of theshelf let's say like really easy
to get to.
So you go on Kike for Business,you sign up in a few clicks and
you can really start looking atthe tool.
Of course we have a team ofaccount managers and dedicated
(13:43):
to onboard and do changemanagement with you, et cetera,
to help you, but we wantedsomething easy to get into it,
start booking, see the flow andreally feel the product really
quickly.
So that's one thing.
So we can really have anyonethat needs a tool that can get
(14:04):
into or contact us to test thisSMB product.
Another thing we wanted to do ishave something super
transparent as well on thepricing model.
So you touch on the pricingmodel with him on something Okay
, that's the fee.
And then you need asubscription or minimum fee,
minimum spend, sorry.
And if you call an agent, we'regoing to charge you that.
(14:26):
So we decided to go with a flatfee for everything.
So you sign up and you knowthat you're going to charge you
that.
So we decided to go with a flatfee for everything.
So you sign up and you knowthat you're going to pay 20
dollars per trip.
Um, no matter what you do withinthe tool, or if you ask us to
help on their onboarding, or if,in the future, your traveler
needs to to have a touch with anagent and so on, so that's,
that's the smb product.
(14:47):
So, to answer your question,something super easy to get to,
to understand, and if you are amedium company that needs
support, we are here, of course,to help on board you, etc.
So the outbound is not thataggressive.
In terms of looking afterSouthern of Leeds.
Looking after Southern of Leeds,I think we really want people
(15:09):
to come to us, hear about us,test the products and we're
going to be really here to helpthem to use our tool On the
other side enterprise completelydifferent, targets much bigger
companies.
You need to talk with eachcompany and really explain the
tool, the product, understandthe needs of the company.
So it takes much more time andthe sales cycle is much longer.
(15:34):
As you know, it's a completelydifferent approach.
But I would say now, with thesetwo products we can target
anyone that is looking for atool in the business travel
industry.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
From my experience, there's tworoles there's the travel
manager and the actual businesstraveler, and I know you've
highlighted both of those onyour website and how you speak
to each of them.
Because obviously, the travelmanager side, where it's focused
on compliance and control whichis not the sexy part of travel
it's just the essential partthat you need to make sure that
you're staying within yoursupplier contracts, agreements
(16:07):
and within the prices that havebeen agreed for what you can
your per diem or your nightlyrates and those elements.
But the the key part from myexperience, which is where I was
really excited to speak to you,is what is is that?
What we typically saw withcorporate travel is that people
would leak over to the big otasand choose to book themselves
because of the convenience, andkayak has always played that
(16:28):
role.
It was like you guys actuallytook business away from
corporate travel managementcompanies because people just
want to use kayak and I usekayak a lot.
I book a lot of flights throughkayak, like I've been a big fan
of kayak for many years.
So I thought it's reallyintrigued that you guys have got
into business travel, one ofthe things that specifically
stood out to me because I'vealways associated you with the
ease of planning and havingmultiple options.
That's sort of like if you wereasked me why I use Kayak, that
(16:49):
would be the reasons, but one ofthe other ones that was new to
me because I don't use the Kayakapp was the fact that is one of
your competitive advantages isthe award-winning app staying
ahead with real-time alerts.
So how much are you seeing that?
The app for business travelershow important is that?
Is that like, literally, arethey 80% or 90% of the people
who are using for businesstravel are using the app?
(17:11):
How, ultimately, how importanthas that been to your success?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, it's, it's a massive piece and everything
we're doing is actually a mobiledesign, like everything is
around mobile and app is a goodthing and trip, as you said was
a big thing, is a big thing forleisure.
Each time go to custom in theus I say I'm working at kayak
and they're taking.
The person is like I use tripsall the time.
so it's such a a great way tohear about our product.
(17:39):
But, yeah, no trip the app.
People are using it on leisure,but it's so important when
you're business travel like youchange the gate, you have a
cancellation of flight,everything is live and you can
have it through the app.
And we're using our technologyexisting technology we had
through kayak for business, soit's such an important component
and everything we're going tobuild in the future on top of
(18:02):
what we've done so far will bearound as well mobile apps, so.
But the the great thing aroundthe, the topic of app, is that
of course, the traveler can goon our app now, but with this
new technology, we've built forour enterprise that now if they
prefer to go on their preferredairline, they can also go on
(18:22):
their app.
They don't have to decide ifit's Kayak for Business or their
favorite airline.
So that's also the beauty ofthis new connection we've built
with suppliers.
It's that the user can also gowherever he wants to change his
flight.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, I definitely have to download it and give
that a go.
We'll be right back.
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Now back to the show.
One of the things I was alsokeen to get your perspective on,
(20:09):
because, again, clearly youhave the privileged position to
be able to see the data and howpeople are utilizing the
platform.
And one of the terms that we'veunfortunately become familiar
with, even though it's a greatconcept leisure the idea of you
blend business trips and leisure, and it's certainly as people
have been returning for businesstravel, they've also been
deciding to tack on their ownleisure travel as well, so
(20:32):
people are so thrilled to betraveling again.
They want to continue and staythe weekend or have their spouse
or partner come and meet them.
And so what are you seeing inthat regard?
Because, again, I would thinkthat that would be a great
competitive advantage for kayak,given that people love using it
already for leisure and now youcan use it for business.
So the two are alreadyperfectly designed to blend
together.
Are you seeing that people areusing the business product and
(20:55):
then also booking personal tripswithin that, or are they
booking those within kayak?
And yeah, how does that allcome together from your vantage
point?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I don't have the exact data, but a lot of some
pleasure and how it grows.
What we know, if there is across platformform, what we see
is on the corporate platform ingeneral, the length of stay is
longer.
So they do it on one platformand they stay longer.
We see longer stay in general.
So the pleasure is definitelythere, but I mean pleasure can
(21:26):
be one.
Another thing is also we aretraveling less.
So when we do a trip, we don'tgo for one or two days.
Pre-pandemic, we had thetendency to do that, I think in
certain cases, okay, I'm goingfor two days.
I think there's a big questionmark around this two days trip
(21:46):
now and we have longer trip ingeneral.
We could talk aboutsustainability as well, of
course less trip but longerstays.
So I think, yes, in general, toanswer your question, we're
saying longer stays.
Pleasure definitely ishappening and that's a big
advantage on our side because,yes, people use Kayak and they
(22:08):
know us, they know our userexperience, our content, etc.
So when they arrive on theKayak for Business platform,
they're not lost at all andthey're actually pretty happy to
book their business travel aswell as extending it for leisure
during the weekend.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And where are you seeing?
I mean, you're based in France.
Your role is global.
I'm obviously in North America,I'm in Canada, but I assume
that the?
U is a major market for kayak,and I was reading Steve Hafner's
interview about why they gotinto business travel before this
.
And I'm not just a big fan ofkayak, obviously, I'm also a fan
of Steve, and I just have toput that out there.
(22:44):
So our listeners know not justPaul Steve, because Steve is the
person I look forward to seeingthe most on stage, not just
Paul Steve, because Steve is theperson I look forward to seeing
the most on stage because he'sthe most unpredictable and I
just, I I'm just I'm not surewhat he's gonna say and I just
like, and I love that, I lovethat especially he hasn't
restrained himself even now thathe works for a public company
(23:04):
and he just, you know, continuesto be vocal and I think that's
great.
It's refreshing in our space,our space.
So so, but my question isactually more along the lines of
where kayak is seeing thegrowth globally and where the
big markets are for corporatetravel, where, where are the
major markets that you're seeingor focusing on for growth on
the kayak, for business?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
yeah, kayak for business, definitely us, and we
started with the US.
We'll continue to really focusin the US because there are many
big companies in the US, global, in there.
So starting with the US and ofcourse we're going now global.
So I mean it depends, as youknow, the clients you're getting
, so it can be a certain marketmight be more impacted,
(23:47):
depending on the client you'rebringing on board Okay, us, and
expanding, of course, to Europeand the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Interesting.
And then in terms of thecompetitors, I know in business
many times we like to think thatwe don't have any competitors
and I know you don't want toname names and I'm not going to
put you on the spot to do so.
I'll leave that to Steve.
And so even Steve, in hisinterview, was talking about the
fact that the people who aregoing to be most bothered by
(24:14):
this are going to be globalbusiness travel, like Amex and
these companies that obviouslythere's a lot of the banks
You've seen I'm sure you knowCitibank.
Interestingly, paul English, ofcourse, created Lola, which was
a business travel, and he soldall the technology and still
retained the name.
And now it's a dating site forthose people who are going to
check it out.
And I just spoke to himrecently and he was showing me
(24:36):
his new cyber truck and he gotthe cyber truck all deckled out
with Lola dating and it'sdriving around Boston right now
with two young ladies promotingthe dating site.
So it's taken on a wholedifferent dimension.
So I don't encourage people tounless that's what you're
looking for to go and see Lola,for Businesses, no More, but the
couple of their competitors.
(24:56):
So I mentioned Yvonne, of course, having the CEO on, which was
really interesting, and they'reon a path to go public and
they're seeing incredible growth.
And that intrigued me because,of course, they were trip
actions during the pandemic whenI was living in LA and I was
reading about their significantcapital raises, which shocked me
that they were in such aposition and I think, even
amazed them that they were ableto get so much capital during
(25:17):
the pandemic for business travel.
And then, of course, you've gota company like Travel Perk as
well.
That's in this space.
So not asking you to speak toyour competitors, but obviously
keen to know where you're seeingthe traction and how you think
kayak for business stacks upagainst any of the competition
yes, um, I think we're prettyunique.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I would never say that we don't have competitors.
We do have competitors outthere, and I think we are.
We all have space to grow intothe business travel industry, um
, but what we built from scratch, coming from a meta-search
leisure focusing on leisure atfirst, but with a client that is
(25:59):
PwC, pretty big spender, thatreally knew what they wanted to
get out of this innovation, andBlockSky as well, coming with
the blockchain and all theirexperience I think that's pretty
unique.
Like we really have this globalcontent with this expense piece
, blockchain reporting piecethat we don't see yet, uh,
(26:21):
elsewhere.
Um, the, the airlines builtcertain technology just for us
to be, for us to be able to sellthe tickets.
So I think, right now, on thedirection we're taking, so
that's the foundation.
Now we're going to do much more.
We're going to add moresuppliers, we're working on the
booking flow, we're working onmany things at the moment.
(26:43):
So, so it's just yeah.
So I think the position we haveright now is unique and we're
pretty confident on the productwe have out there.
So, yeah, we're in a prettygood position.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
For sure when I look at the trajectory of brands like
American Express, globalBusiness Travel or Concur, for
example and this is wherethere's these legacy players
that are ripe for disruption byvirtue of kayak moving into the
space or other competitors, likewe've mentioned.
But the one thing I'd also keento understand, too, is just how
people are using the platformand what they're booking,
because obviously that candiffer based on the clients you
(27:18):
have, of course, and theirspends.
But are you seeing that it'sprimarily used for flight
booking?
Or are you actually seeing?
Because when I was building allthese platforms, the key
obviously was like you startwith the flight, then you go to
the car rental, then you go tothe hotel, you follow the
consumer journey and you givethem the options that are within
their corporate profile.
So they have to go to budget orthey have to stay at a Hilton
hotel and again, those were someof the limitations in terms of
(27:42):
the technology and the offeringat the time and people would
sometimes then go outside of theplatform.
They would just book theirflight and then find their own
hotel deals, and it's amazingI'm sure you see this too just
how much time people are willingto spend and executives like
highly paid executives to save$20 on a flight or a hotel.
It's like it's a game thateveryone seems to play, so yeah.
So tell us what are some of theproducts that you see primarily
(28:04):
?
Is it just flights or hotels,or is it truly a combination of
all aspects of their businesstravel flight, car and hotel?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
No, it's really a combination.
It's not only flight, and Imean the whole point of this new
technology and this userexperience and having the right
content in front of the userswas really for them to stay and
avoid the leakage as well.
So what we're seeing is reallya mix of everything.
Of course, flight is alwaysquite a big part of the business
(28:33):
travel, but the attachment withall the vertical hotels, car
and so on is pretty high.
So, no, that's really a mix ofall vertical we're seeing today.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And you started to mention about some of the
technology and innovations thatand I'm keen to know, especially
going into 2025.
Of course, ai, generative AI isI mean we did a conference
earlier this year.
It's certainly it's going to beeverywhere and there's so many
benefits.
And this actually goes back towhen I saw Paul and Steve last
(29:06):
time on stage and Paul had saidthe night before on Shadowing
that he's going to launch thekayak killer and, sure enough,
he announced it on stage.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I was in the public.
Okay, good, you were there, sowe were in the same room
together.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, I was sitting next to Nico, the CEO of Dietz,
and he wasn't quite sure if Paulwas going to announce it, and
he did, and they chide eachother and they're great friends
ultimately but one of the thingsthat Paul had said to me that I
found really intriguing wasthat he would rather have 10
developers in AI than 1,000developers 20 years ago at Kayak
.
And so, just in terms of what'scapable, what's possible and I
(29:42):
know Steve made in that becauseobviously we were both in the
room we heard Steve's responseto that, which was you know,
they have a brand.
Kayak has a great brand.
You've got data.
There's many advantages that anincumbent has as opposed to a
startup, to be able to take AIand really leverage that
technology.
So I'd love to understand maybea little bit more on that front
(30:03):
with how the technologyinnovation is going to really be
supercharged by AI, or how youguys are embracing technology,
because at the core of it, ofcourse, you're a technology
company.
So what are some of the thingsthat we can look forward to or
that you're going to see that'sgoing to shape the future of
business travel in 2025?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, I think, like every company, we're definitely
looking at AI and embracingeverything that is happening
around AI.
And you might have seen onKayak or maybe some PR on Ask
Kayak, the price check.
So we started to work on AI andreally leveraging the volume we
have, the data, as you said,and really making the user
(30:42):
journey and booking much easierthrough AI.
We're actually looking atputting Ask Kayak on K4B, so I
think that's also really anadvantage we have at Kayak,
having this leisure piece andthe Kayak for Business.
There are many things you do onleisure that makes the
experience much better.
(31:02):
That we want to cascade as wellon Kayak for Business so that's
definitely something we'll doin the future makes the
experience much better.
That we want to cascade as wellon kayak for business so that's
definitely something we'll doin the future.
But, in general, ai andtechnology as a big word we are
a technology company, soeverything we do is around
technology product and makingeverything much easier for the
travelers.
So, yeah, the technology piecewe see many innovation coming,
(31:27):
so we've been working, obviously, on APIs.
That's one big thing and Ithink that's going to be the
future.
So the suppliers, so the firstthree airlines that started to
develop this new AI is going tobe more suppliers going into
this game.
We're going to these APIs willevolve.
This technology will alsochange the blockchain and this
(31:48):
all expense thing will also getbetter.
So I think, yeah, technologywise, it's just as I said at the
beginning it's a start.
We're going to.
The product will evolve withmore content.
You can think of so many thingsin business travel today.
We've got this, so the holisticTMmc offline.
But how can we use ai in thisworld of offline agent messaging
(32:12):
when people are traveling?
So I mean, many things willhappen, uh, through ai and
technology in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, for me, it's just the start of it yeah, no,
it's exciting, and the one thingI want to make sure I highlight
to all of our listeners,further to the comment that I
was making about being forcedinto certain decisions based on
company policy, is that the oneimportant differentiation for
kayak for business is that youdon't process the tickets and
reservations, unlike mostbusiness travel platforms.
(32:40):
You really allow people likemyself who are going to travel
for business to be able tosearch all the airlines, all the
different hotel sites, find thebest prices and availability,
but then it's integrated intoyour kayak profile so that you
have everything integrated,which I think is a clever
approach, because it's playingto kayak strengths, but giving
you the app and the tools andthe travel management policy
(33:01):
that was missing.
So, yeah, keen to know, justmaybe.
One last question on that frontIs there anything that you
would highlight with Kayak forBusiness that you either have
come across yourself that youuse like a travel hack for using
Kayak for Business?
Is there any little Easter eggsthat are hidden within the
platform?
that our users can get excitedabout about what they should use
(33:24):
or how they should use it.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think what I really love about Kayak is first
making my booking, but then it'smore during the booking.
I think that during the travel,that's where everything can
happen your flight gets canceled, you have a change of gate, et
cetera.
So I think it's really theaccessibility to the information
through the app, through trips,that makes really my life, my
(33:47):
travel, easier and I'm travelinga lot but being able to have
live information and beingupdated all the time, that's my,
that's really a big strength, Ithink, in in a travel journey.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, no, I agree.
And those disruptions and theease of being able to overcome
them, to get back to your familyor to get onto that meeting,
that's critical.
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(36:01):
And now back to the show.
One last question on the futureof business travel.
I'll use an example of this,too is that we're doing with
season four.
We're doing a deep dive intoand many of our listeners know
this but a deep dive intodifferent categories in travel,
and so this is obviously formingpart of our focus on business
travel.
But we also have a deep diveinto cruise, and the interesting
(36:23):
thing I thought I found aboutcruise and speaking to Clea,
which is that 2023 was kind oftheir new banner year.
So 2019 previously was for mosttravel companies, 2023 set new
records and they've reallyprojected the next five years of
growth, and it's remarkablewhen you look at the number of
travelers that are intended tocruise over the next five years
(36:44):
and you can see that by virtueof demographics, with the aging
population, and so it's muchmore clear to me how leisure is
going to be impacted by thosedemographic trends the six
generations of travelers thatare now currently traveling that
we've never had before.
I'm keen to know from yourpoint of view especially from
like business planning and someof the data stats you look at
(37:04):
what is the future of businesstravel.
Do you look at that in the nextthree years, the next five
years or the next 12 months?
What do you see as the futureof business travel?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think it's going to continue to grow, like we've
seen the number of the past fouryears.
So I think the future, if Ilook at it on a tech product
perspective, is that we need toreally answer the needs of the
traveler and the travelermanager, and I think they are
(37:35):
really different than thetravelers we had in 2019.
So, when you think aboutproduct and innovation and
technology we were talking aboutthat a few minutes ago it's
really about making sure youmeet these needs and really
understand your users, yourtravelers and that's what we've
(37:56):
done for the last 20 years inthe leisure side and that's what
we're going to continue to dofor business travel really
understand what they're lookingat.
We can see that based on thedata and search we're seeing.
You mentioned hotel before.
Comfort is really a big thing.
We see more and more four-starhotels that are booked.
(38:18):
If you compare with 2019, wesee a pretty big difference
increase in term of hotels,hotels, four stars.
So, yeah, I think you reallyneed to understand, yeah, what's
the traveler needs and how youcan personalize your product and
the travel for this, for thesetravelers for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
And then if people from this conversation, I'm sure
like me, are going to be eitherdownloading the app or checking
out kayakcom slash business,I'll just throw that out there
for people to learn more.
What would you suggest foreither following up with
yourself?
If for those people on the B2Bside that are interested in
partnerships, I'd love forpeople to know how to follow up
with you and also get moreinformation about Kayak for
(39:02):
Business to see if it shouldwork for them also get more
information about kayak forbusiness to see if it should
work for them.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, no, for sure.
Please reach out to me onlinkedin and I'll definitely
answer.
My team will.
I will answer to you.
Um, I think that's the best way, uh, to go.
We also, of course, have thewebsite directly on on kayak
kayak for business.
So, um, please reach out to oneof those.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Perfect.
I like the acronym K4B.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, Easy to remember .
Cag for business.
But you can just go onwwwcagcom slash business.
You'll have many informationthere.
Or just reach out to me forsure.
It will be a pleasure Perfect.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Thank you, eva, speaking of pleasure, it's been
a real delight having thisconversation.
Any information there, or justreach out to me, for sure it
would be a pleasure to answer.
Thank you, eva, speaking ofpleasure, it's been a real
delight having this conversationwith you today and I'm very
excited for the future of Kayakfor Business and I look forward
to keeping in touch with you.
Thank you, danny.
It was my pleasure.
Thanks so much for joining uson our latest episode of Travel
Trends.
I hope you enjoyed thisconversation with Eva Foucault
from Kayak and listening to allthe progress they're making on
Kayak for Business.
(40:07):
If you are interested in gettinginvolved in our season five as
a guest speaker or sponsor, besure to reach out to
danattraveltrendspodcastcom orcheck out our website and fill
out the guest form.
We are just starting to planout our season five guests and
programming, so it's perfecttime if you want to reach out,
let us know on a topic you'dlike us to focus on, a guest
(40:30):
you'd like us to bring on, or ifyou're interested in partnering
with us on our next season.
Also, make sure that you'reregistered to get our latest
updates.
Once a month, we send out anupdate of all of our latest
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And, of course, we post clipsand highlights on all our social
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(40:51):
Thanks again for joining us.
Until next time, safe travels.
Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends.
This is your host, danChristian, and on today's
episode we're going to continueour focus on corporate travel.
We had some amazing feedback toour episode with Rich Liu, the
CEO of Navon, as they journeytowards an IPO in this massive
$1.5 trillion market.
And today we're going to bespeaking to Eva Foucault, who is
the Senior Vice President ofPartnerships, accommodation and,
(00:36):
specifically, kayak forBusiness.
As many of you know, I have thegreatest respect for Paul
English and Steve Hafner, whobuilt Kayak, and I had the
privilege to speak to PaulEnglish as we kicked off season
three.
So I was very keen to have thisconversation with Eva today to
understand exactly how Kayakdecided to enter the corporate
travel market given that manybusiness travelers were already
(00:56):
using the platform already butexactly how they decided to
approach this with partners andbe able to pitch their platform.
So, on that note, let meintroduce you to Eva Foucault
from Kayak.
Eva, it's great to have youwith us.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thank you, Dan.
It's a pleasure to be here withyou.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Absolutely.
I've been really lookingforward to this and I know that
you're based in Bordeaux.
You're in France, so your roleis very global at Kayak and
we're going to have afascinating conversation today
about kayak for business, whichI'm really intrigued, because we
interviewed the CEO of Navonrecently on our podcast and my
background, interestingly enough, is in corporate travel.
That was actually my first rolein the travel industry, was
(01:35):
working at Carlson Wagonley andbuilding a corporate travel
booking tool, so I'm sointrigued about business,
especially on the other side ofthe pandemic.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background and how you came
into this role at Kayak.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, so my background is really about
travel.
I've done my entire career inthe troll industry.
So 17 years ago I startedworking for an online troll
agency in Europe and then Idecided to move to Australia to
discover another country andwork from another country, and I
(02:08):
worked there for a meta-searchcalled Hotels Combined for six
years and after that, kayak cameinto the picture, because Kayak
actually bought Hotels Combinedand that was the start of the
story with Kayak.
It's been, yeah, 17 years, 10years with autos combined and
kayak in the meta search world.
(02:30):
So I think, yeah, troll foundme, choose me at first and I
never left it and I love itactually that's terrific.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, clearly we have that in common for sure,
because when kayak firstlaunched, I remember it very
clearly because there wasanother startup called Sidestep
that had been introduced and Iwas totally intrigued by
Sidestep.
But interestingly, paul andSteve acquired Sidestep, which
was actually from Kayak.
So fascinating story of themeta search wars and kayak
(03:02):
buying sidestep and thenultimately, as you well know, in
the journey, being acquired byPriceline or bookingcom and
being part of that group, butthey've retained their
independence.
I had Paul on the beginning oflast season Paul English which
was a fascinating conversation.
He was reminding me about someof the fundamental principles of
kayak in the very early days,and one of the key things was
(03:23):
speed, was trying to make surethat he could produce results
faster than anybody else andthat was going to be their
competitive advantage.
So I'm so keen to have thisconversation with you about the
business side.
So let's go right into that.
Which is what motivated kayakto focus on the business travel
sector, and I guess specificallywhat I'm keen to know is
exactly that, which is that howis kayak positioned itself to
(03:43):
differentiate from the otherbusiness platforms that are out
there?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, it's a funny story.
Actually, it started a fewyears ago when we were looking
for a tool ourselves, what touse for our business trouble and
we just realized that thisindustry was a bit broken just
in terms of user experience.
This industry was a bit brokenjust in terms of user experience
, content, payment methods.
We could see that something wasa bit wrong and off there, so
(04:11):
we started to look into it andsee what we could do with what
we had as Kayak.
Our DNA is about content.
As you know, it's been 20 yearsand you just mentioned Kayak,
but on the leisure side, it'sbeen 20 years that we got
focused on content and speed andgiving the best offer to our
(04:31):
users.
So we looked into that and, atthe same time, actually at an
opportunity, pwc and BlockSkycame to us and they were looking
for a partner to really make into, to bring innovation into
the industry and really make adifference, really make a change
, because we all thought that'syeah, it's been a long time that
(04:54):
the same players, samesuppliers are are in the
industry and we think companieswere a bit tired actually of
this bad user experience, lackof content and so on.
So we decided to build ittogether and that's where
everything started.
So that's really the backgroundof the story of how we started
in the business struggle.
I see it like as an opportunityhappened with a client and
(05:17):
BlockSky that has been in theindustry forever as well, been
in the industry forever as well.
So combining our skills was, wethought, perfect, perfect
combination to disrupt thisindustry.
And then we started to buildand think about, okay, what's
(05:37):
the description and where wewant it to end.
So we had a clear idea where wewanted to start.
So it's really about, if youlook, we have two different
targets.
So you have the SMB, so smalland medium businesses and
enterprise.
If we start looking atenterprise because I just
mentioned PwC, which is anenterprise line, it's a big
company with a significanttravel spend so what we're doing
(06:01):
is that we're streamliningbasically the shopping
experience from A to that andwe're really mirroring what you
would get on an airline website.
What do I mean by that?
It's how many times have youbooked an airline flight and you
(06:22):
call the airline and you wantto change your ticket but you
can't and they don't have accessto your ticket because you
basically bought it on an OTA,for example.
That happens so many times topeople in the past.
So that's in a nutshell whatwe're fixing.
We are connecting directly withthe suppliers with new
(06:42):
technologies, new APIs that havebeen built by the suppliers,
and we're meeting the usereverywhere, anywhere after that.
So if he wants to go in theairline app to change his
booking, for example, we'regoing to be able to do that.
If he wants to go at theairport to go to the desk, talk
to someone, we can do that.
We will find his bookinganywhere.
(07:03):
So it's really like making thetraveler experience much easier,
from the booking during thebooking after.
We're going to meet himeverywhere.
So that's really a big piece ofconnecting directly with the
airline, new technology, directtrue direct, we call it and
being able to meet the traveleranywhere.
(07:23):
And through this technologywe're also able to eliminate the
expense reports.
So that's another big piece inthe innovation that we're doing
with BlockSky Pay that reallyallow us to have the supplier
directly connected with thecompany.
So no more expense report.
So no more expense report.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, that's a critical part of corporate
travel expense reports, anecessary component that
definitely makes life easier fornot only making your bookings
and managing your trip, but justmaking sure that you're not
filling out those expensereports at the end of the month
to try and itemize all of thoseitems that you tried to
freestyle and purchase on yourown.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
One of the things I'd love to ask you, eva, based on
your role and going into this,you've been at Kayak for nearly
six years.
You were there pre-pandemic, ofcourse, in 2019, focusing on
partnerships, and thentransitioned to the corporate,
the business side, in 2021,which obviously was kind of
getting towards the other side.
We weren't quite there yet.
It took another year, 2022, andthen, all of a sudden, we've
(08:24):
had these banner years in 2023and 2024.
The part I wanted to ask youwas that during that time, there
was clearly a big questionabout business travel on the
other side of the pandemic.
Will travel come back and whatwill it look like?
And that was obviously thetheme of this show, and part of
the reason I think it'sresonated with our listeners is
that certain behaviors havechanged post-pandemic and some
(08:45):
have remained the same, and it'sinteresting to speak to experts
like yourself and try andunderstand exactly what the
landscape looks like today,since you sit in a very
privileged position of havingaccess to the data and
understanding the strategy atKayak for Business, and so I
just wanted to go back to that,because I'm very keen to
understand how the decisionswere made to decide to focus on
(09:05):
it.
I totally get it and it wasdoing some homework, of course,
before our conversation and theidea that the positioning was
that Kayak wanted a better wayto manage your own business,
travel for your own team, andyou realize that, with limited
inventory and some of theoutdated interfaces that you've
decided to build your own, whichagain makes total sense.
But that's obviously based onthe fact that your team people
(09:26):
like yourself need to travelagain, and that was that big
question after all these Zoommeetings, believe me, I'm happy
that for the most part, that'snot a reality anymore.
But a lot of people started tosay wait a second, do you need
to fly for meetings?
Can we not do everything inthis virtual world?
And people were workingremotely, and the one thing I'll
just say, and I'll hand it overto you, is that one of the big
trends that we've certainly seenin hotels that I'm sure you're
(09:49):
across is that with the rise ofremote work and less corporate
offices, we've actually seen adramatic increase in the need
people to book hotels and holdconferences and hold quarterly
meetings, and so it's created awhole new opportunity for the
hotel and accommodation sector.
That has affected office leasesthey're empty but hotels are
(10:09):
full, so it's just amazing howour world continues to morph and
change.
So tell us a little bit, just interms of how you guys decided
to go into the business travelsector and I guess why I'm
focusing on that is just I thinkmost people don't necessarily
have a great grasp of just howbig an industry it actually is,
and so did you guys feel asthough it was going to come back
(10:32):
and that now you guys couldplay a pivotal role as business
travel comes back.
So I'd love to just get yourviews on this sector.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, no, super interesting question.
Yeah, no, super interestingquestion.
I think when everythinghappened, we strongly believed
still that business travel wouldcome back.
We didn't know when and by howmuch.
It was clear that we knew thatthe world would have changed and
how we would travel wouldchange.
(11:01):
But we strongly believe that,even though we're so remote now
and we have Zoom every day we'reall on video calls you still
need at some point to meet yourpartner or to meet your teams.
So I think it was clear thatbusiness travel wouldn't
disappear.
(11:22):
The industry was broken at thattime.
Pwc came in the future, so itmade complete sense to try to
build a new product and reallyget into it, and we strongly
believe that we had the rightDNA and technology in place to
really get into it quickly andbuild the right product.
(11:43):
And that's what happened and wemade the right choice, I
believe, because then businesstravel was slower.
It took more time than leisure.
I think people were desperateto go out and really go for
leisure and really enjoytraveling.
Business travel took more time,but now the spend and volumes
are coming back to a prettydecent level, so we're really
(12:04):
happy to be in the game.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
For sure, and I know you started to touch on this.
But I also want to just go backto the typical customer.
You mentioned SMB and Iremember that very clearly from
pitching multiple accounts onthe business side, because you
clearly have the small tomedium-sized business companies
and then you have largeraccounts, large enterprise
customers.
So those are the two primaryfocuses, and how are you going
about building thoserelationships?
(12:26):
Because I know from myexperience in this space there's
a lot of pitching andpresentations and like it does
take an extended period of timeto take over an account and even
if you've got a great brandlike Kayak and a great
technology platform, you stillhave to convince them you've got
the inventory, you've got thepricing and that you're going to
be able to service their needs.
So yeah, so how are you and theteam building that trust and
confidence?
(12:46):
And tell us a little bit moreabout who the target profiles
and I'm asking that because I'msure there's lots of people are
going to be listening to this,trying to figure out is kayak
business for me?
And so I'd love for you toaddress those please.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So first we take the time at kayak and we want to
make sure.
You've seen, they took us a bitof time because we started a
few years ago to build theseproducts.
We wanted really the productsto be ready and to go out there
not making noise just to makenoise, but be ready with both
products.
So now we're really like happywith SMB products and the
(13:19):
enterprise one.
So it's completely differentand you kind of started to take
all that SMB, small and mediumcompanies.
So we built a product of theshelves let's say like really
easy to get to.
So we built a product of theshelf let's say like really easy
to get to.
So you go on Kike for Business,you sign up in a few clicks and
you can really start looking atthe tool.
Of course we have a team ofaccount managers and dedicated
(13:43):
to onboard and do changemanagement with you, et cetera,
to help you, but we wantedsomething easy to get into it,
start booking, see the flow andreally feel the product really
quickly.
So that's one thing.
So we can really have anyonethat needs a tool that can get
(14:04):
into or contact us to test thisSMB product.
Another thing we wanted to do ishave something super
transparent as well on thepricing model.
So you touch on the pricingmodel with him on something Okay
, that's the fee.
And then you need asubscription or minimum fee,
minimum spend, sorry.
And if you call an agent, we'regoing to charge you that.
(14:26):
So we decided to go with a flatfee for everything.
So you sign up and you knowthat you're going to charge you
that.
So we decided to go with a flatfee for everything.
So you sign up and you knowthat you're going to pay 20
dollars per trip.
Um, no matter what you do withinthe tool, or if you ask us to
help on their onboarding, or if,in the future, your traveler
needs to to have a touch with anagent and so on, so that's,
that's the smb product.
(14:47):
So, to answer your question,something super easy to get to,
to understand, and if you are amedium company that needs
support, we are here, of course,to help on board you, etc.
So the outbound is not thataggressive.
In terms of looking afterSouthern of Leeds.
Looking after Southern of Leeds,I think we really want people
(15:09):
to come to us, hear about us,test the products and we're
going to be really here to helpthem to use our tool On the
other side enterprise completelydifferent, targets much bigger
companies.
You need to talk with eachcompany and really explain the
tool, the product, understandthe needs of the company.
So it takes much more time andthe sales cycle is much longer.
(15:34):
As you know, it's a completelydifferent approach.
But I would say now, with thesetwo products we can target
anyone that is looking for atool in the business travel
industry.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
From my experience, there's tworoles there's the travel
manager and the actual businesstraveler, and I know you've
highlighted both of those onyour website and how you speak
to each of them.
Because obviously, the travelmanager side, where it's focused
on compliance and control whichis not the sexy part of travel
it's just the essential partthat you need to make sure that
you're staying within yoursupplier contracts, agreements
(16:07):
and within the prices that havebeen agreed for what you can
your per diem or your nightlyrates and those elements.
But the the key part from myexperience, which is where I was
really excited to speak to you,is what is is that?
What we typically saw withcorporate travel is that people
would leak over to the big otasand choose to book themselves
because of the convenience, andkayak has always played that
(16:28):
role.
It was like you guys actuallytook business away from
corporate travel managementcompanies because people just
want to use kayak and I usekayak a lot.
I book a lot of flights throughkayak, like I've been a big fan
of kayak for many years.
So I thought it's reallyintrigued that you guys have got
into business travel, one ofthe things that specifically
stood out to me because I'vealways associated you with the
ease of planning and havingmultiple options.
That's sort of like if you wereasked me why I use Kayak, that
(16:49):
would be the reasons, but one ofthe other ones that was new to
me because I don't use the Kayakapp was the fact that is one of
your competitive advantages isthe award-winning app staying
ahead with real-time alerts.
So how much are you seeing that?
The app for business travelershow important is that?
Is that like, literally, arethey 80% or 90% of the people
who are using for businesstravel are using the app?
(17:11):
How, ultimately, how importanthas that been to your success?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, it's, it's a massive piece and everything
we're doing is actually a mobiledesign, like everything is
around mobile and app is a goodthing and trip, as you said was
a big thing, is a big thing forleisure.
Each time go to custom in theus I say I'm working at kayak
and they're taking.
The person is like I use tripsall the time.
so it's such a a great way tohear about our product.
(17:39):
But, yeah, no trip the app.
People are using it on leisure,but it's so important when
you're business travel like youchange the gate, you have a
cancellation of flight,everything is live and you can
have it through the app.
And we're using our technologyexisting technology we had
through kayak for business, soit's such an important component
and everything we're going tobuild in the future on top of
(18:02):
what we've done so far will bearound as well mobile apps, so.
But the the great thing aroundthe, the topic of app, is that
of course, the traveler can goon our app now, but with this
new technology, we've built forour enterprise that now if they
prefer to go on their preferredairline, they can also go on
(18:22):
their app.
They don't have to decide ifit's Kayak for Business or their
favorite airline.
So that's also the beauty ofthis new connection we've built
with suppliers.
It's that the user can also gowherever he wants to change his
flight.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, I definitely have to download it and give
that a go.
We'll be right back.
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Now back to the show.
One of the things I was alsokeen to get your perspective on,
(20:09):
because, again, clearly youhave the privileged position to
be able to see the data and howpeople are utilizing the
platform.
And one of the terms that we'veunfortunately become familiar
with, even though it's a greatconcept leisure the idea of you
blend business trips and leisure, and it's certainly as people
have been returning for businesstravel, they've also been
deciding to tack on their ownleisure travel as well, so
(20:32):
people are so thrilled to betraveling again.
They want to continue and staythe weekend or have their spouse
or partner come and meet them.
And so what are you seeing inthat regard?
Because, again, I would thinkthat that would be a great
competitive advantage for kayak,given that people love using it
already for leisure and now youcan use it for business.
So the two are alreadyperfectly designed to blend
together.
Are you seeing that people areusing the business product and
(20:55):
then also booking personal tripswithin that, or are they
booking those within kayak?
And yeah, how does that allcome together from your vantage
point?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I don't have the exact data, but a lot of some
pleasure and how it grows.
What we know, if there is across platformform, what we see
is on the corporate platform ingeneral, the length of stay is
longer.
So they do it on one platformand they stay longer.
We see longer stay in general.
So the pleasure is definitelythere, but I mean pleasure can
(21:26):
be one.
Another thing is also we aretraveling less.
So when we do a trip, we don'tgo for one or two days.
Pre-pandemic, we had thetendency to do that, I think in
certain cases, okay, I'm goingfor two days.
I think there's a big questionmark around this two days trip
(21:46):
now and we have longer trip ingeneral.
We could talk aboutsustainability as well, of
course less trip but longerstays.
So I think, yes, in general, toanswer your question, we're
saying longer stays.
Pleasure definitely ishappening and that's a big
advantage on our side because,yes, people use Kayak and they
(22:08):
know us, they know our userexperience, our content, etc.
So when they arrive on theKayak for Business platform,
they're not lost at all andthey're actually pretty happy to
book their business travel aswell as extending it for leisure
during the weekend.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And where are you seeing?
I mean, you're based in France.
Your role is global.
I'm obviously in North America,I'm in Canada, but I assume
that the?
U is a major market for kayak,and I was reading Steve Hafner's
interview about why they gotinto business travel before this
.
And I'm not just a big fan ofkayak, obviously, I'm also a fan
of Steve, and I just have toput that out there.
(22:44):
So our listeners know not justPaul Steve, because Steve is the
person I look forward to seeingthe most on stage, not just
Paul Steve, because Steve is theperson I look forward to seeing
the most on stage because he'sthe most unpredictable and I
just, I I'm just I'm not surewhat he's gonna say and I just
like, and I love that, I lovethat especially he hasn't
restrained himself even now thathe works for a public company
(23:04):
and he just, you know, continuesto be vocal and I think that's
great.
It's refreshing in our space,our space.
So so, but my question isactually more along the lines of
where kayak is seeing thegrowth globally and where the
big markets are for corporatetravel, where, where are the
major markets that you're seeingor focusing on for growth on
the kayak, for business?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
yeah, kayak for business, definitely us, and we
started with the US.
We'll continue to really focusin the US because there are many
big companies in the US, global, in there.
So starting with the US and ofcourse we're going now global.
So I mean it depends, as youknow, the clients you're getting
, so it can be a certain marketmight be more impacted,
(23:47):
depending on the client you'rebringing on board Okay, us, and
expanding, of course, to Europeand the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Interesting.
And then in terms of thecompetitors, I know in business
many times we like to think thatwe don't have any competitors
and I know you don't want toname names and I'm not going to
put you on the spot to do so.
I'll leave that to Steve.
And so even Steve, in hisinterview, was talking about the
fact that the people who aregoing to be most bothered by
(24:14):
this are going to be globalbusiness travel, like Amex and
these companies that obviouslythere's a lot of the banks
You've seen I'm sure you knowCitibank.
Interestingly, paul English, ofcourse, created Lola, which was
a business travel, and he soldall the technology and still
retained the name.
And now it's a dating site forthose people who are going to
check it out.
And I just spoke to himrecently and he was showing me
(24:36):
his new cyber truck and he gotthe cyber truck all deckled out
with Lola dating and it'sdriving around Boston right now
with two young ladies promotingthe dating site.
So it's taken on a wholedifferent dimension.
So I don't encourage people tounless that's what you're
looking for to go and see Lola,for Businesses, no More, but the
couple of their competitors.
(24:56):
So I mentioned Yvonne, of course, having the CEO on, which was
really interesting, and they'reon a path to go public and
they're seeing incredible growth.
And that intrigued me because,of course, they were trip
actions during the pandemic whenI was living in LA and I was
reading about their significantcapital raises, which shocked me
that they were in such aposition and I think, even
amazed them that they were ableto get so much capital during
(25:17):
the pandemic for business travel.
And then, of course, you've gota company like Travel Perk as
well.
That's in this space.
So not asking you to speak toyour competitors, but obviously
keen to know where you're seeingthe traction and how you think
kayak for business stacks upagainst any of the competition
yes, um, I think we're prettyunique.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I would never say that we don't have competitors.
We do have competitors outthere, and I think we are.
We all have space to grow intothe business travel industry, um
, but what we built from scratch, coming from a meta-search
leisure focusing on leisure atfirst, but with a client that is
(25:59):
PwC, pretty big spender, thatreally knew what they wanted to
get out of this innovation, andBlockSky as well, coming with
the blockchain and all theirexperience I think that's pretty
unique.
Like we really have this globalcontent with this expense piece
, blockchain reporting piecethat we don't see yet, uh,
(26:21):
elsewhere.
Um, the, the airlines builtcertain technology just for us
to be, for us to be able to sellthe tickets.
So I think, right now, on thedirection we're taking, so
that's the foundation.
Now we're going to do much more.
We're going to add moresuppliers, we're working on the
booking flow, we're working onmany things at the moment.
(26:43):
So, so it's just yeah.
So I think the position we haveright now is unique and we're
pretty confident on the productwe have out there.
So, yeah, we're in a prettygood position.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
For sure when I look at the trajectory of brands like
American Express, globalBusiness Travel or Concur, for
example and this is wherethere's these legacy players
that are ripe for disruption byvirtue of kayak moving into the
space or other competitors, likewe've mentioned.
But the one thing I'd also keento understand, too, is just how
people are using the platformand what they're booking,
because obviously that candiffer based on the clients you
(27:18):
have, of course, and theirspends.
But are you seeing that it'sprimarily used for flight
booking?
Or are you actually seeing?
Because when I was building allthese platforms, the key
obviously was like you startwith the flight, then you go to
the car rental, then you go tothe hotel, you follow the
consumer journey and you givethem the options that are within
their corporate profile.
So they have to go to budget orthey have to stay at a Hilton
hotel and again, those were someof the limitations in terms of
(27:42):
the technology and the offeringat the time and people would
sometimes then go outside of theplatform.
They would just book theirflight and then find their own
hotel deals, and it's amazingI'm sure you see this too just
how much time people are willingto spend and executives like
highly paid executives to save$20 on a flight or a hotel.
It's like it's a game thateveryone seems to play, so yeah.
So tell us what are some of theproducts that you see primarily
(28:04):
?
Is it just flights or hotels,or is it truly a combination of
all aspects of their businesstravel flight, car and hotel?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
No, it's really a combination.
It's not only flight, and Imean the whole point of this new
technology and this userexperience and having the right
content in front of the userswas really for them to stay and
avoid the leakage as well.
So what we're seeing is reallya mix of everything.
Of course, flight is alwaysquite a big part of the business
(28:33):
travel, but the attachment withall the vertical hotels, car
and so on is pretty high.
So, no, that's really a mix ofall vertical we're seeing today.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And you started to mention about some of the
technology and innovations thatand I'm keen to know, especially
going into 2025.
Of course, ai, generative AI isI mean we did a conference
earlier this year.
It's certainly it's going to beeverywhere and there's so many
benefits.
And this actually goes back towhen I saw Paul and Steve last
(29:06):
time on stage and Paul had saidthe night before on Shadowing
that he's going to launch thekayak killer and, sure enough,
he announced it on stage.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I was in the public.
Okay, good, you were there, sowe were in the same room
together.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, I was sitting next to Nico, the CEO of Dietz,
and he wasn't quite sure if Paulwas going to announce it, and
he did, and they chide eachother and they're great friends
ultimately but one of the thingsthat Paul had said to me that I
found really intriguing wasthat he would rather have 10
developers in AI than 1,000developers 20 years ago at Kayak
.
And so, just in terms of what'scapable, what's possible and I
(29:42):
know Steve made in that becauseobviously we were both in the
room we heard Steve's responseto that, which was you know,
they have a brand.
Kayak has a great brand.
You've got data.
There's many advantages that anincumbent has as opposed to a
startup, to be able to take AIand really leverage that
technology.
So I'd love to understand maybea little bit more on that front
(30:03):
with how the technologyinnovation is going to really be
supercharged by AI, or how youguys are embracing technology,
because at the core of it, ofcourse, you're a technology
company.
So what are some of the thingsthat we can look forward to or
that you're going to see that'sgoing to shape the future of
business travel in 2025?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, I think, like every company, we're definitely
looking at AI and embracingeverything that is happening
around AI.
And you might have seen onKayak or maybe some PR on Ask
Kayak, the price check.
So we started to work on AI andreally leveraging the volume we
have, the data, as you said,and really making the user
(30:42):
journey and booking much easierthrough AI.
We're actually looking atputting Ask Kayak on K4B, so I
think that's also really anadvantage we have at Kayak,
having this leisure piece andthe Kayak for Business.
There are many things you do onleisure that makes the
experience much better.
(31:02):
That we want to cascade as wellon Kayak for Business so that's
definitely something we'll doin the future makes the
experience much better.
That we want to cascade as wellon kayak for business so that's
definitely something we'll doin the future.
But, in general, ai andtechnology as a big word we are
a technology company, soeverything we do is around
technology product and makingeverything much easier for the
travelers.
So, yeah, the technology piecewe see many innovation coming,
(31:27):
so we've been working, obviously, on APIs.
That's one big thing and Ithink that's going to be the
future.
So the suppliers, so the firstthree airlines that started to
develop this new AI is going tobe more suppliers going into
this game.
We're going to these APIs willevolve.
This technology will alsochange the blockchain and this
(31:48):
all expense thing will also getbetter.
So I think, yeah, technologywise, it's just as I said at the
beginning it's a start.
We're going to.
The product will evolve withmore content.
You can think of so many thingsin business travel today.
We've got this, so the holisticTMmc offline.
But how can we use ai in thisworld of offline agent messaging
(32:12):
when people are traveling?
So I mean, many things willhappen, uh, through ai and
technology in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, for me, it's just the start of it yeah, no,
it's exciting, and the one thingI want to make sure I highlight
to all of our listeners,further to the comment that I
was making about being forcedinto certain decisions based on
company policy, is that the oneimportant differentiation for
kayak for business is that youdon't process the tickets and
reservations, unlike mostbusiness travel platforms.
(32:40):
You really allow people likemyself who are going to travel
for business to be able tosearch all the airlines, all the
different hotel sites, find thebest prices and availability,
but then it's integrated intoyour kayak profile so that you
have everything integrated,which I think is a clever
approach, because it's playingto kayak strengths, but giving
you the app and the tools andthe travel management policy
(33:01):
that was missing.
So, yeah, keen to know, justmaybe.
One last question on that frontIs there anything that you
would highlight with Kayak forBusiness that you either have
come across yourself that youuse like a travel hack for using
Kayak for Business?
Is there any little Easter eggsthat are hidden within the
platform?
that our users can get excitedabout about what they should use
(33:24):
or how they should use it.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think what I really love about Kayak is first
making my booking, but then it'smore during the booking.
I think that during the travel,that's where everything can
happen your flight gets canceled, you have a change of gate, et
cetera.
So I think it's really theaccessibility to the information
through the app, through trips,that makes really my life, my
(33:47):
travel, easier and I'm travelinga lot but being able to have
live information and beingupdated all the time, that's my,
that's really a big strength, Ithink, in in a travel journey.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, no, I agree.
And those disruptions and theease of being able to overcome
them, to get back to your familyor to get onto that meeting,
that's critical.
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(36:01):
And now back to the show.
One last question on the futureof business travel.
I'll use an example of this,too is that we're doing with
season four.
We're doing a deep dive intoand many of our listeners know
this but a deep dive intodifferent categories in travel,
and so this is obviously formingpart of our focus on business
travel.
But we also have a deep diveinto cruise, and the interesting
(36:23):
thing I thought I found aboutcruise and speaking to Clea,
which is that 2023 was kind oftheir new banner year.
So 2019 previously was for mosttravel companies, 2023 set new
records and they've reallyprojected the next five years of
growth, and it's remarkablewhen you look at the number of
travelers that are intended tocruise over the next five years
(36:44):
and you can see that by virtueof demographics, with the aging
population, and so it's muchmore clear to me how leisure is
going to be impacted by thosedemographic trends the six
generations of travelers thatare now currently traveling that
we've never had before.
I'm keen to know from yourpoint of view especially from
like business planning and someof the data stats you look at
(37:04):
what is the future of businesstravel.
Do you look at that in the nextthree years, the next five
years or the next 12 months?
What do you see as the futureof business travel?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think it's going to continue to grow, like we've
seen the number of the past fouryears.
So I think the future, if Ilook at it on a tech product
perspective, is that we need toreally answer the needs of the
traveler and the travelermanager, and I think they are
(37:35):
really different than thetravelers we had in 2019.
So, when you think aboutproduct and innovation and
technology we were talking aboutthat a few minutes ago it's
really about making sure youmeet these needs and really
understand your users, yourtravelers and that's what we've
(37:56):
done for the last 20 years inthe leisure side and that's what
we're going to continue to dofor business travel really
understand what they're lookingat.
We can see that based on thedata and search we're seeing.
You mentioned hotel before.
Comfort is really a big thing.
We see more and more four-starhotels that are booked.
(38:18):
If you compare with 2019, wesee a pretty big difference
increase in term of hotels,hotels, four stars.
So, yeah, I think you reallyneed to understand, yeah, what's
the traveler needs and how youcan personalize your product and
the travel for this, for thesetravelers for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
And then if people from this conversation, I'm sure
like me, are going to be eitherdownloading the app or checking
out kayakcom slash business,I'll just throw that out there
for people to learn more.
What would you suggest foreither following up with
yourself?
If for those people on the B2Bside that are interested in
partnerships, I'd love forpeople to know how to follow up
with you and also get moreinformation about Kayak for
(39:02):
Business to see if it shouldwork for them also get more
information about kayak forbusiness to see if it should
work for them.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, no, for sure.
Please reach out to me onlinkedin and I'll definitely
answer.
My team will.
I will answer to you.
Um, I think that's the best way, uh, to go.
We also, of course, have thewebsite directly on on kayak
kayak for business.
So, um, please reach out to oneof those.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Perfect.
I like the acronym K4B.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, Easy to remember .
Cag for business.
But you can just go onwwwcagcom slash business.
You'll have many informationthere.
Or just reach out to me forsure.
It will be a pleasure Perfect.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Thank you, eva, speaking of pleasure, it's been
a real delight having thisconversation.
Any information there, or justreach out to me, for sure it
would be a pleasure to answer.
Thank you, eva, speaking ofpleasure, it's been a real
delight having this conversationwith you today and I'm very
excited for the future of Kayakfor Business and I look forward
to keeping in touch with you.
Thank you, danny.
It was my pleasure.
Thanks so much for joining uson our latest episode of Travel
Trends.
I hope you enjoyed thisconversation with Eva Foucault
from Kayak and listening to allthe progress they're making on
Kayak for Business.
(40:07):
If you are interested in gettinginvolved in our season five as
a guest speaker or sponsor, besure to reach out to
danattraveltrendspodcastcom orcheck out our website and fill
out the guest form.
We are just starting to planout our season five guests and
programming, so it's perfecttime if you want to reach out,
let us know on a topic you'dlike us to focus on, a guest
(40:30):
you'd like us to bring on, or ifyou're interested in partnering
with us on our next season.
Also, make sure that you'reregistered to get our latest
updates.
Once a month, we send out anupdate of all of our latest
episodes and plan for the nextmonth, so be sure to register
for our newsletter ontraveltranscom.
And, of course, we post clipsand highlights on all our social
channels as well Instagram,linkedin and YouTube.
(40:51):
Thanks again for joining us.
Until next time, safe travels.
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