May 25, 2023 • 39 mins
Mental health is one critical component of our overall wellness and ability to live a healthy and fulfilling life. According to the National Institute of Mental Health Disorders, 1 in 4 American adults suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year, and many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time.
From the hospital we’re born in, to the schools we attend, to the home we live in, the spaces we inhabit for most hours of the day affect our mental health. In this episode, principals from several of TreanorHL’s design studios take a deep dive into a few of these different building types and uncover how they can affect our mental health.
In this episode, we hear from:
- Steve Carr, principal in our Health studio
- Stephanie Grose, principal in our PK-12 Education studio
- Jeff Lane, principal in our Justice studio
Learn more about the projects referenced throughout:
- Springfield PK-12 School
- Clear Creek County Health and Wellness Center
- Douglas County Treatment and Recovery Center
TreanorHL is a national architecture, planning, and design firm located in the United States. The company holds a firm belief in sharing resources and insights with professionals, clients, and building users to shape the space we use to live and grow as people. For more information, visit treanorhl.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Megan Brock (00:02):
Welcome to TreanorHL Talks, a podcast about
architecture, planning anddesign trends as well as current
events and noteworthy topics inthe field. I am your host, Megan
Brock, introducing today'stopic, mental health, and how
the buildings we inhabitthroughout our lives can have an
influence. Mental health is onecritical component to our
(00:22):
overall wellness and ability tolive a healthy and fulfilling
life. According to the NationalInstitute of Mental health
disorders, one in four Americanadults suffer from a diagnosable
mental disorder in a given year,and many people suffer from more
than one mental disorder at agiven time. Some disorders can
show symptoms as early aschildhood or adolescence. The
(00:45):
state of mental health inAmerica was exacerbated by the
COVID-19 pandemic, with adultself-reporting of mental
disorders increasing to as highas double the rates expected
pre-pandemic. Resources such asstate-funded long-term
facilities and psychiatric bedshave also declined nationally
throughout the past decade,resulting in overwhelmed
(01:06):
emergency rooms and evencorrectional institutions not
designed for the type of careneeded. Couple this with
children affected by a lapse inregular school attendance and
socialization, and the need fora holistic approach to mental
healthcare in our communitiesbecomes a clear need. From the
hospital we're born in, to theschools we attend, to the home
(01:27):
we live in, the spaces weinhabit for most hours out of
the day affect our mentalhealth. Let's take a deep dive
into a few of these differentbuilding types and uncover how
they really can affect ourmental health. At TreanorHL, we
provide specialty design forhealthcare facilities, pre K
through 12 schools, highereducation facilities, and
(01:50):
detention facilities with aspecific focus on restorative
justice. Our team designs formental health in every single
one of these facilities.
Principals from each of thesedesign teams have joined me
today to talk more about it.
Thank you all for being here. Goahead and introduce yourselves
and share a little bit moreabout your studio and the
(02:11):
facilities you design.
Jeff Lane (02:13):
This is Jeff Lane, and I am with TreanorHL. I'm in
the Justice studio. I'm aprincipal, and I've been working
on justice work for over 23years, and really, really
enhancing and engaging in traumainformed design and normative
design here over the last fiveto seven years as we've seen
this evolve within ourprofession.
Stephanie Grose (02:36):
And this is Stephanie Grose. I am a
principal within our Educationstudio. I, like Jeff, have been
working on education projectsfor over 22 years. So have seen
things kind of come and go alongthe way. And I'm really
encouraged by the conversationsthat have been happening. Also
within the last five to sevenyears within our school clients
(02:58):
with a focus on how to bettersupport students.
Steve Carr (03:02):
Hi, I'm Steve Carr.
I'm a principal with TreanorHL.
Like Stephanie and Jeff, I'vebeen practicing architecture for
a good deal longer, but I'vebeen focused only in healthcare
for about 30 years. It's mypassion. And they became evident
probably, I don't know, 15 yearsago, of how the behavioral
health mental health world wasconnecting, well always has
(03:25):
been, tied at the hip withhealth care, but not an obvious
thing that people were trying tocover until it started to put a
lot of pressure on healthsystems.
Megan Brock (03:35):
So what is the importance of mental health
awareness to you personally? Andwhat is the importance to us at
TreanorHL?
Stephanie Grose (03:42):
I think you know, as architects, our basic
oath that we take is to preservehealth, safety, welfare and the
projects we do. And if we aren'ttalking about mental health,
we're missing a big component ofthat. So to me, that's where
it's important for us to reallybring this to the forefront in
all the different ways that thephysical environment can support
(04:04):
it. And when I think about it ona personal level, I have a lot
of friends who have children whoare coming into their teenage
years, and a lot of ourconversations center around
their pressures and theiranxiety and depression and the
pressures that they face everyday. And I think about, this is
really wonderful that we canhave these open conversations
(04:26):
because I can also think aboutmy grandmother and how in her
time having these kinds ofstruggles are something that you
kept quiet. And I saw andcontinue to see
multi-generational impact ofthat. So it's there's a lot of
pieces to this that I take toheart and I just think it's so
important.
Steve Carr (04:47):
Yeah, Stephanie, I think it became so obvious a
couple of decades ago, really,there are so many social and
cultural issues that arehappening globally. that
behavioral health is a rootcause of If, and if we're going
to really be professionally, ifwe're if we're really going to
be good problem solvers, we haveto understand the root cause the
(05:09):
problems that we're trying tosolve. So I think that's, for me
is important, bothprofessionally and personally.
Jeff Lane (05:18):
What really drove for me, behavioral health was being
a part of some processes that wewent through in Douglas County
over a 10-year period, to see acommunity that really captured
the idea of helping not justincarcerated folks, but helping
the whole entire community, andbeing able to be a part of a
(05:39):
process that thought about aCrisis Recovery Center, a
process that thought about thejudiciary and pretrial services,
the thinking about how do weengage mental health in a jail
component and how all of thosecome together. I think, for me,
that really brought to theforefront, the lack of agencies
(06:00):
that were out there, the lack ofhelp that was out there. And so
that's really triggered anelement in architecture that
needed to happen.
Megan Brock (06:10):
And what about the clients we work with? What is
the importance of mental healthawareness to them? And what
about the end users, those whoare actually living and using
and working within thesefacilities day in and day out?
Stephanie Grose (06:22):
I think, you know, a lot of our clients
probably across the board have auniversal struggle with staffing
shortage, and how that impactsthe services that they're able
to deliver. And I think aboutobviously, schools in
particular, and just how theratio of school psychologist or
(06:42):
school counselor to the numberof students is completely out of
proportion. So here we arehaving these these teachers and
the staff that try to make upfor that pandemic, not only the
academics, but that socialemotional learning, but they
don't have the funding or theresources to do so. And I like
(07:02):
to think how we can pull ourbrains together and tackle it
through that kind of lens aswell. And that's a little harder
nut to crack.
Steve Carr (07:12):
Our firm is positioned well, to help, you
know, we do work with universityhousing, in schools, justice and
health. And if we can connectthe dots, you know, in the in
the projects that we're doingbetween clients, and gaining an
understanding of you know, wheretheir pressure points are,
relative to behavioral health,mental health, we can really be
(07:35):
an important player by helpingthem connect those dots.
Jeff Lane (07:39):
Well and Steve, I think it's the idea that we
collaborate together as a group,too. So as a firm, we've
actually been able to takeelements within health or higher
ed, or our K through 12 groupand our justice group and have
conversations about how are weaddressing some of these things,
whether it's both across theboard, or bringing it to a
project that we may have?
Stephanie Grose (07:59):
Yeah, we sure do. And especially in the
smaller towns, thosepartnerships really make all the
difference. And we've seen thatconnection between healthcare
and schools happen with clinicsbeing implemented within the
school spaces so that it'seasily accessible, which is
probably the first and foremostimportant thing when it comes to
supporting mental health andother health services. And it's
(08:23):
all kind of right there.
Megan Brock (08:25):
So how do you design for each of these very
specific facility types forpositive mental health outcomes?
What are some of those elements?
And what do they look like? Howare they used?
Steve Carr (08:37):
Our clients in healthcare, they recognized just
from a business perspective,they needed to make some kind of
change to survive, they startedpushing care upstream. You know,
it's kind of the analogy thatthey've used converting to more
of a population health model. Wehave a huge aging population in
the United States, that willcreate high acuity, health care,
(08:59):
multiple morbidity issues, thatwill continue to put pressure on
the hospital systems. But whatthey've been seeing with with it
on the behavioral health side isthey need to be able to take the
time to manage those cases in adifferent way. And they need
also their staff needs to becollaborating better, and
literally back-to-back in spacewith each other, where someone
(09:21):
can recognize that someone has aphysical ailment that it could
be tied directly to some otherproblem that they have, and they
can refer them to theircolleagues, you know, that can
help them with that. We have aproject in Colorado that we did
and there's a lot of peoplethere that really need help and
they didn't have any primarycare in in their town for over
(09:44):
15 years. And they were allforced to drive down to the
front range they ended upputting together, it's actually
the County Department of HumanServices put together a project
that we work with them on thatcombined clinical health, they
partnered with a hospital systemto provide a clinical help, and
a behavioral health group withtheir social services all in one
(10:06):
building. So that all of thoseprofessionals could be
back-to-back in one facility andtreating people, you know
whether they were there for foodstamps, or whether they were
there because they just broke anarm. So that was a real fun
project to be involved in. Andit's been working very well for
them.
Jeff Lane (10:23):
That's really neat.
Steve, you talk about thesmaller communities and you talk
about how do you engage some ofthose in projects from the
standpoint of they may belacking in some of the agencies
or other the continuum of carein facilities. And that's one of
the things that I think we allsee from an architectural
perspective. But I also wouldsay here over the last few
(10:45):
years, or even even longer,there's more engagement with
smaller communities with thoseagencies. Either they're coming
into their own communities, andthen engaging, whether it's
county facility, the groups, thehealth groups, the schools, or
they may be partnering withlarger communities that have
those same agencies and actuallybringing those groups together
(11:08):
to help support. And I thinkthat's the other pieces we've
lost, or we used to not have inthe smaller communities, those
pieces, how do we now capturethat? And how do we bring those
those elements to them? Bothfrom an architecture
perspective, as well as from,how do we educate them having
some of those conversations?
Steve Carr (11:31):
There's a stigma, too, that people may have when
they need help. And in theproject I was talking about, it
was actually in a main streetlocation, we provided a front
porch and a front living room.
So people would be comfortablecoming in the building. It's in
a small town, everybody knowseverybody. So they're like, oh,
I saw you go into the buildingthe other day, you know, what
(11:52):
are you doing there, and itdoesn't matter, you know, and
they help break down that stigmaby creating a facility there
that is very welcoming, andopen. And you can be there for
many different reasons. And it'scomfortable for someone even
just to walk in from the street,that doesn't necessarily know if
they need any help, right? Theyhave a little giveaway place for
(12:12):
clothing, and a fireplace. It'sa very open facility that way.
Stephanie Grose (12:19):
That's pretty interesting. It follows a
similar path as the schools, youknow, the counseling services
used to be something that was alittle bit remote and had a
backdoor entrance to keepeverything real secretive. And
we've seen this trend of pullingit out and centralizing it
within the school again, goingback to accessibility, but it's
destigmatizing. And then it'salso centered in the information
(12:43):
commons or the library. Sonobody knows why you're there.
But you pop in to say hi to yourcounselor, or maybe there's a
meeting that you know, yourparents come in to have with
somebody just really makes it,you know, part of the everyday
and not so secretive.
Jeff Lane (12:59):
Yeah, at the Crisis Recovery Center, we did
something very similar, weactually created two entrances.
So we have the public entranceand, and a drop off location
that you and I could come to ifwe brought somebody in our own
community. But if you wanted tobe a little bit more discreet,
we had the side entrance, sothat you can still walk into a
really well lit lobby spacethat's inviting non-obtrusive,
(13:24):
and having a conversation withreception as to where I need to
go. And those are things that Ialso think as we look at
architecture and how we design,those are things to bring that
anxiety down. Those individualsthat are coming there many times
they either don't want to comeor they're afraid to come. So
how do we help within ourarchitecture to do some of those
things. And I think capturingnatural daylighting and thinking
(13:46):
about acoustics within thosespaces has just been very
engaging.
Steve Carr (13:51):
One of the things that's been happening in
Colorado is Mental Health FirstAid. There's a program where you
can get training, they focusedon teachers, law enforcement,
EMT, etc. I've actually takenthe course myself, but it helps
people recognize first aid whensomeone may have an issue. I
think what's helped a lot in thelast couple of decades. Our
(14:12):
emergency departments who hadthis huge problem, because
police officers were droppingpeople off that belonged
somewhere else. And I had one ofmy clients say, hey, they
brought a person in so we'regoing to leave them here and he
said, well, are they underarrest? Are they not under
arrest? That's not how it works.
And so that's what the crisiscenter that Jeff is referring to
is another option instead ofjust dropping them in an
(14:36):
emergency department wherethey're going to go into a black
hole for the next six hours. OurCommunity Care Center in Idaho
Springs is the the project I wasreferring to in Colorado and
that project. Literally whathappened was a former mayor of
the town died on the way to thehospital. And that was the
catalyst for the whole communityto come together. We worked with
(14:57):
them for about eight yearsbefore they ever even started
anything, identifying sites andtrying to find out how to get
funding, they ended up workingout their partnership with
Centura Health, specifically St.
Anthony Hospital, which is rightdown the valley. And the big
reason that St. Anthony Hospitalwas concerned, is people without
(15:19):
insurance, were being put inambulances and sent to St.
Anthony, it was the closesthospital. So they were getting
these patients that had a veryexpensive ambulance ride that
they couldn't pay for, didn'thave insurance. And so it was
piling onto the St. AnthonyHospital. So they were very
motivated to help Idaho Springsget a clinic in place. So they
(15:42):
could, as I mentioned earlier,move upstream and provide
preventive care. They alsostarted a program with their
ambulance drivers, providingthem with a list of addresses of
people that they could check inon once in a while, you know,
elderly people in town familiesthat had had issues. So that was
also a really smart thing theycould do for a small town, they
(16:06):
really put together an awesomeholistic healthcare program.
Jeff Lane (16:10):
So on the Crisis Recovery Center, there are a
multitude of groups that broughtthis project together. It really
started years ago, as we lookedat the justice system, and the
community. And so there was aneed to look at medical mental
health beds at the jail. Andthere was also the need to think
(16:31):
about alternative courts, mentalhealth court, drug abuse court
that the county currently didn'thave. And in that conversation,
the discussion of what came outof that was the Crisis Recovery
and Treatment Center. So werecognize that there was these
three elements that needed to bewoven together and engaged in
some fashion. The countypartnered with Bert Nash Mental
(16:53):
Health Group, an agency in thecommunity, and then LMH, as
well, the hospital there, andthe community, and then the
county. Now, other agencies havebeen a part of the process and
partnered as well throughout thecommunity. But those were the
main three. And they cametogether and said, Let's let's
To Steve's point, it was, therewere individuals that were being
go do this.
(17:15):
picked up by law enforcement andtaken to the hospital, or taken
to the jail, those became theplaces so they booked them in,
but they really didn't need tobe booked in or they take him to
the to the hospital. And whenthey went to the hospital, they
go to the emergency room, andthen they go sit there for six
hours. But that, that wasn'twhat they needed. They needed
some help, they needed maybe adetox component, it may be that
(17:38):
that I need to come in and andhave some folks talk to me and
get back on track to where I'mtrying to go. And so Crisis
Recovery Center became thatbuilding, and they were able to
capture and create a 72-hourcomponent that allows for
individuals to come, whetherthat's through the law
enforcement now being able tobring them directly to that
(18:00):
facility, or somebody like youand I that have a spouse or a
family member that needs somecare. But it became a continuum
of care, too, because part ofwhat this facility is going to
do is those folks that arecurrently in the county jail
that are receiving mental healthhelp from Bert Nash or other
groups, if they are leaving thejail and back out into the
(18:24):
community now have a place to goand can have consultations in
lieu of having to go maybe toBert Nash. So it allowed for
some continuum of care to happenin that community.
Stephanie Grose (18:36):
And I hear you guys talk about this holistic
approach with the differentagencies coming together. With
school, sometimes it's more of amicro holistic approach, if that
makes sense. There's adiscussion around the whole
child. And it's, you know, thesocial well being emotional,
physical, intellectual, all ofthose sorts of things. And it's
(18:58):
pretty interesting to thinkabout because, you know, for
some of the students, school istheir safest place. Home isn't
secure. And so making sure thatwe're reaching out beyond just
the academics is just anotherway to approach all of this. I
listened to a presentation notthat long ago on the science
(19:18):
behind the whole child approach.
And they talked about, you know,the brain chemicals and things
that happen when studentsexperience connection, and have
a sense of belonging, and howthe chemicals that the brain
release actually counteracts theeffects of cortisol or the
stress that they have. So thatkind of like what you were
talking about, Jeff, the traumainformed design, creating
(19:39):
environments that facilitate thesense of belonging is such a
powerful way to do that.
Megan Brock (19:47):
So how can we as designers, working on all of
these different facility types,work together to better
anticipate mental health needs?
Steve Carr (19:55):
I think we're pretty good at empathy for the people
that we're designing ourbuildings for, and going back to
the root cause, you know, ofwhat's happening with the, with
the users of the facilities thatwe designed. The other thing,
Stephanie, that I was going toask you is a champion is really
critical, right, on the clientside, and having a client that's
(20:17):
empathetic, and a client that isa champion. Schools are
constantly hammered for budget,I know that Denver Public
Schools did a zip codehotspotting thing. And they kind
of figured out where a lot oftheir cases were coming from for
the hospital for the DenverHealth Hospital. And then they
put clinics into thoseneighborhoods, in schools, in
(20:42):
elementary schools, or theypartnered with them in some way.
I'm not sure if it's literally aclinic, but they partnered with
them, to help them staff, theschool nurse, or even if they
can afford to have a schoolnurse anymore, you know, that's
just rotating around betweendifferent schools. But that also
was a huge issue. Right? It'sbeen able to put together
something that can get funded.
Stephanie Grose (21:03):
Right.
Absolutely. I mean, they theschool districts are hammered
for funding in every which way.
And this often kind of drops tothe bottom, especially rural
communities that they wouldnever be able to support a
full-time nurse or a full-timepsychologist, you've got one
person that's traveling aroundto all the schools, I think what
(21:24):
you described with the clinicsbeing put into the schools that
they've figured out had the mostneed is pretty intriguing. I'd
love to learn more about that.
Steve Carr (21:34):
Yeah, I think that's been going pretty well for them.
The other thing, I think thatthere is cross-training people
so that if I'm a securityperson, they're not saying, you
know, I see that going on overthere but that's not my job.
They're willing to go out andpick something up in the parking
lot or partner with somebody,you know, in our case, at a
(21:54):
hospital, they, they'repartnering a lot with the
greeters the front door, wherethey can actually see out, you
know, the front of the building,and they can see, did somebody
fall down, out there. Butgetting rid of that it's not my
job mentality, and getting morewith less, right, which is what
they all have to do, becausethey're cross-trained to
(22:15):
identify problems, and help ifthey're in a position to do
that.
Stephanie Grose (22:20):
This kind of leads into a little bit of the
discussion around, you know,safety and security in those
schools, I read some interestingstatistics that I think it was
up to 70% of school shootings,the root can be tied back to
bullying that the shooterexperienced. And so, you know,
you see a movement to do all ofthese hardening type activities
(22:44):
in schools kind of going moretoward the prison effect rather
than the learning environmentthat we're striving for. And it
makes me wonder, and it makesour whole studio wonder, about
the different ways in which wecan provide security without
necessarily making it feel hardlike that. And I know that the
(23:05):
Justice studio is doing quite abit of work probably coming more
toward the school direction andlessening that feel. So it seems
like there's some sort of in themiddle part that we're both
arriving at.
Jeff Lane (23:18):
I think that's a great point. Because I'm right
with you. I was just as you weretalking through this idea of
schools hardening, and I'm notgoing to date myself at all, but
when I was going to school, wedidn't have that conversation,
right. But there is that safetysecurity element in the justice
world. In the past, there's thisidea that we want to make it as
(23:38):
hard as we can. But I think toyour point, Stephanie, we're now
going hey, wait a minute, bringthe anxiety down, create an
environment that is a little bitsofter. And thinking about color
a little bit more. How do webring natural daylighting in? I
know we need to do a scanner anda magnetometer, I get all those
things. How do we engage theofficer that's going to rove
(24:02):
around? They're there, they'repart of the environment, but
they're not here with the bigstick. I think those are things
that as we continue, and I knowthat our groups are currently
working on a couple projectstogether to think about that,
collectively.
Stephanie Grose (24:17):
I'm thinking about a particular project that
we worked on recently, it's akindergarten through 12th grade
school. And that particularclient was really about making
sure students felt like theybelonged there. And so while
there are the secure elements atthe front door, they're not as
noticeable. And then, you know,security happened more naturally
(24:39):
throughout the design of thebuilding. Also, for us,
providing daylighting within thewhole facility. A natural secure
outcome of that is that you havethis transparency and you have a
vista out to you know, the frontof the building or the back of
the building. And so, you know,while we do have some clients
that say we really we want tohave that bulletproof glass and
we want to have everything youknow, contained and locked and
(25:01):
that sort of thing. We are alsoseeing a number of schools push
back and say, hey, we're at theheart of the community. And we
want people to feel thatconnection when they come into
this building, especially ourstudents.
Steve Carr (25:13):
You know, in our case, the treatment areas, we're
setting the space up so peoplecan have a really good
conversation with eye-to-eyecontact. You can include the
family in a genuine conversationcircle, and at the same time
provide, you know, for the needsof the physician, or the
psychiatrists, if we positionthem near the door, because
(25:34):
things happen. And theysometimes need to just be able
to get out, you know, they don'tput the family between them and
the door. So just the ways thatwe're organizing those rooms,
but most importantly, settingthem up so they can have a
really good conversation, andthey can be connected with each
other.
Stephanie Grose (25:52):
That's so important, that kind of human
scaling of spaces and setting upfor those interactions. And in
the educational setting, we talka lot about making sure that
we're not shoving akindergartener into a big
soaring adult space, becausewhat better way to create
anxiety than to do that, andjust making sure that we're
keeping the child's scale inmind and the impact that that
(26:15):
has to your, your well being.
And then also those differenttypes of spaces for different
types of students. You know,some kids want to sit on the
side and observe, some kids wantto be in the middle of
everything, and making sure thatwe provide those opportunities
for all types is important.
Jeff Lane (26:32):
You know, when you talk about those types of
things, I think about furniture,I know, years past, and just
from the justice side, furniturewas not friendly, but it's
gotten softer. And so we one ofthe things we did in the Crisis
Recovery Center was because ofthe types of individuals that
might be in that facility, theywere concerned about putting
furniture in there that wasfurniture you may see in, in a
(26:54):
school or in a hospital, becausepeople can pick them up and do
damage with them or hurtsomebody or whatever else. So we
actually worked to find a moredense furniture, when we looked
for that the client asked us,we're okay with that, but we
still want it to feel like it'snormative. And I'm still in my
living room. And so we workedwith a couple different vendors
(27:16):
to find furniture that's likethat, it fit a little bit better
than what it would have if itwas, you know, corrections-type
furniture. And so that's theother piece that we're starting
to see within our world to helpthe process, too, as we think
about behavioral health.
Stephanie Grose (27:31):
And we were seeing furniture that is
designed to allow students tomove. So when they feel that
urge, or you know, the what wemight have typically called the
ADHD-type students in the in thepast, you know, they need to
move to be able to stay focusedon what they're doing and stay a
part of the class environment.
So seeing that come to theforefront is pretty interesting,
(27:52):
and learning the science behindthat as well. I'm always
interested in the science behindthings.
Jeff Lane (28:00):
Well speaking of science, I want to share a
statistic that is estimated that97% of incarcerated individuals
in the United States haveexperienced one or more traumas
in their lives. So when youthink about that, that's pretty
big deal. So we're talking aboutagencies, we're talking about
other building types, how doesarchitecture help to engage that
(28:23):
and I know we talked aboutnatural daylighting, we've
talked about some furniture,we've talked about, how do we
handle finishes? I also think itcomes down to how do we handle
the spaces that theseindividuals are going to be in?
And what does that look like atthe end of the day? Is that
changing? For us, when we thinkabout those spaces, it really
comes down to how do we bring itto a more normalized
(28:45):
environment, because most of thefolks that are going to be in
are there for an amount of time,it's not five minutes, or an
hour or a day, they're there forthree or four days or
potentially 16 days or longer.
So how do we engage thearchitecture to be a little bit
more normative?
Steve Carr (29:04):
Actually just giving people choices about the space
that they're in, so when theyget somewhere, they can find a
place where they're comfortable.
You know, the other analogy islike in a restaurant or a lobby,
you can sit as a group or youcan sit as an individual guests
the wall at a bar top and lookout the window. Just giving
people choices, you know,whether they're under lock and
(29:25):
key, but they may not feel thatway.
Jeff Lane (29:30):
That's a good point.
I was thinking as you weretalking there, Steve, the idea
that quiet rooms and things thatwe actually incorporate into
some of our facilities. Youtalked about the choice of do I
have a roommate, or do I nothave a roommate? There are
individuals that that is a goodchoice, right? Some of them want
somebody to be in the samesleeping room, and some don't,
(29:51):
some have a real anxiety issuewith someone else in the same
room.
Stephanie Grose (29:58):
You know, it kind of goes back to that idea
of of science and theneuroscience of how people
perceive space. And when you cancreate that sense of trust and
safety and belonging, thatoxytocin gets released. And that
is what counteracts the effectsof trauma. And so can our
architecture actually heal?
Megan Brock (30:18):
I think you may have just titled our episode,
Stephanie, can architectureheal? It's interesting how you
brought up choice, Steve,because that seems to be an
important element across allbackgrounds and life situations.
Having choice and learning theresponsibility of choice can be
really powerful. So even thoseelements that you all are
talking about on the microlevel, within schools or
(30:41):
rehabilitative environments,those could be extended to a
macro level within ourcommunities. And that extends
across those services and thosesystems that we interact with.
So on the more macro level, whatare some of those elements of
design that overlap between ourareas of practice?
Jeff Lane (30:58):
So on the Crisis Recovery Center, we actually did
collaborate together with ourhealth group, and our justice
group. So that project, weworked hand-in-hand, as we did
the design and planning for thatproject. We needed to make sure
that we understood how we werehandling the secure pieces, the
element of design from a justiceperspective, but then being able
(31:22):
to reach back and talk aboutsome of the same things that
that Steve talked about. How dowe get the views into these
areas that are a little bit moresoft on the health side? And how
do we engage the agencies inthese these spaces for quiet
areas and other spaces, we alsohad, we have a nurses area, and
(31:43):
to be able to work through thattogether. So that we were able
to have a conversation about howthat needed to operate, function
and look and engage with therest of the architecture. We
also have had conversations andcontinue to collaborate with our
education group as we thinkabout classrooms and program
spaces, but also thinking aboutthe individuals that we work
(32:06):
with on our justice end havethose types of spaces as well.
You know, it's intriguing today,as we talked about, not just
kids, but adults in giving themspaces that may be a little
different, but different fromthe perspective of what it used
to be. It may be that that's nowhow schools are functioning, set
up and designed. So maybe ourjustice projects need to be
(32:29):
thinking about those same typesof things, because those
individuals are coming to be apart of that. And to be able to
share this with a client now hasthe ability to think about
innovative ways of doing justicework that's completely different
than what we've ever done beforeor from a health perspective,
how do we engage behavioralhealth?
Stephanie Grose (32:46):
I know that connection to the outdoors is
pretty important in thehealthcare and the educational
world. Much so we've seen astrong drive toward outdoor
classrooms, because of theeffect of being outside on
learning and mental well being,I can see that as an area of
overlap as well.
Steve Carr (33:06):
Valley Hope, which is a rehabilitation center in
Parker, Colorado, was a projectwe did and they couldn't afford
to grow their buildings as muchas they really wanted to. So we
ended up really capitalizing onthe exterior space for that
project so they could do exactlywhat you're talking about
Stephanie where they could haveoutdoor classrooms. I think the
other thing that occurred to methat we all have in all of our
(33:30):
studio disciplines is justobservation, making people feel
like they're not in a fishbowl,also humanizing places where
people, especially where peoplelive, making it less
institutional. So and then, ofcourse, there's the self-harm
aspect, and understanding theplaces you know, where people
are most likely to hurtthemselves. And if you have to
(33:54):
harden something, then kind offocus on the places where
something is more likely tohappen, then making the entire
facility that way, especially,you know, in the more social
areas, and where there's a goodobservation, you can do a lot
more to soften that space andmake it less institutional.
Stephanie Grose (34:14):
I just had a client meeting yesterday. And
they said something prettyinteresting, too, that I think
relates to this conversation,and that is this notion of
efficiency and how we can tryand optimize everything in our
buildings to a point where theymight start to feel inhuman. And
so it's important to make surethat we don't take efficiency
too far. And maybe some of thosedisruptions are good. And he
(34:38):
pointed out disruptions thatfacilitate those connections and
those conversations areimportant to have.
Megan Brock (34:45):
So what overall defines a successful
community-driven approach tomental health?
Jeff Lane (34:51):
A successful project or a successful outcome is when
the community is engaged andhaving a conversation and
understanding that architecture,and the design that we do, can
help further the benefit ofmental health. That, to me is a
success. I also think about aclient that we are currently
working with that we started aproject three years ago. And
(35:15):
there was a group when we wereinterviewing for the project
that came to the interview,because it was open public
interview. And, and they got toask questions. And when they
asked the questions, theirquestion that they were about
was programs, and mental health.
How are we engaging that in thisproject? And who was going to do
(35:35):
that? And the commissioners hadto answer that question, right?
Well, that was not part of theRFQ, the proposal, that wasn't
part of the design at the verybeginning, as they were planning
it, it was not part of it. Andwe were able to come in, as a
team, and work through what thatis, and what it looked like for
(35:57):
that project. And I can tellyou, that Sheriff, the county
manager, the community, isexcited that we were able to
capture spaces that are going todo those things, to be able to
know that we started with thisidea that the community wanted
it. And it was important tothem, and to be able to move
(36:18):
that needle forward. To me,that's, that's success.
Steve Carr (36:24):
I was thinking about the rural health that we do
rural health care, realeducation, justice facilities,
and they're almost easierbecause the communities are
smaller. I know Stephanie, youknow, when she goes to a
community meeting in Del Norte,everyone is there, they're
involved, and they want to knowwhat's going on. They want to
(36:45):
know why they're, you know, ifthey passed a bond issue, or if
they're about to, they want toknow what that extra tax is
going to be for, and they getreally engaged, it's super
satisfying in, especially in therural areas, you know, because
you, you get to know peoplepersonally, and it really makes
our jobs really rewarding. Howdo you do that in a large urban
area, right? And, you know, oneof the things that we've done
(37:07):
with the hospital systems is wehave asked them when we're
starting a project, to havecommunity meetings where
community members are invited,where past patients are invited,
so they can actually raise thebar of what is going to be that
success. When you get a12-year-old kid that's had
cancer for four years telling astory about what they went
(37:29):
through, it's very impactful.
That's what success is for thisproject.
Stephanie Grose (37:34):
I echo Steve's sentiments, that it's easy to
have that community connectionin the rural areas and much more
difficult in the urban areas.
But I think across the board, Iwould see success if we can
continue to have acceptance andawareness and inclusion of
mental health and mentalwellbeing as a part of the
(37:55):
design conversation. I think alot of our clients don't
understand or we haven't had aconversation about how we might
impact that very important partof their world. And so how can
we wrap it into our processesthat that conversation just
happens naturally.
Megan Brock (38:16):
Great insights, everyone. Thank you again for
joining me today on thisepisode. At TreanorHL, we work
with clients in a range ofbuilding sectors all over the
country. As you heard from theteam here today, we push design
across boundaries to supportentire communities because it
just makes sense. The buildingswe spend our time inhabiting
should do more for us. And witha community-oriented
(38:39):
perspective, they really canmake a positive impact. You can
visit the show notes to learnmore about the individual
projects mentioned throughoutthis episode. You can also visit
treanorhl.com to learn moreabout how we've helped all of
our clients with space solutionsthat fit their unique needs.
Until next time, thank you forjoining us on this episode of
(39:00):
TreanorHL Talks. TraeanorHL is anational architecture, planning,
and design firm located in theUnited States. We hold a firm
belief in sharing compellingstories and data-driven insights
with professionals, clients, andbuilding users to help design
the world we want to live in.
For more information visittreanorhl.com That's
t-r-e-a-n-o-r-h-l.com.
Welcome to TreanorHL Talks, a podcast about
architecture, planning anddesign trends as well as current
events and noteworthy topics inthe field. I am your host, Megan
Brock, introducing today'stopic, mental health, and how
the buildings we inhabitthroughout our lives can have an
influence. Mental health is onecritical component to our
(00:22):
overall wellness and ability tolive a healthy and fulfilling
life. According to the NationalInstitute of Mental health
disorders, one in four Americanadults suffer from a diagnosable
mental disorder in a given year,and many people suffer from more
than one mental disorder at agiven time. Some disorders can
show symptoms as early aschildhood or adolescence. The
(00:45):
state of mental health inAmerica was exacerbated by the
COVID-19 pandemic, with adultself-reporting of mental
disorders increasing to as highas double the rates expected
pre-pandemic. Resources such asstate-funded long-term
facilities and psychiatric bedshave also declined nationally
throughout the past decade,resulting in overwhelmed
(01:06):
emergency rooms and evencorrectional institutions not
designed for the type of careneeded. Couple this with
children affected by a lapse inregular school attendance and
socialization, and the need fora holistic approach to mental
healthcare in our communitiesbecomes a clear need. From the
hospital we're born in, to theschools we attend, to the home
(01:27):
we live in, the spaces weinhabit for most hours out of
the day affect our mentalhealth. Let's take a deep dive
into a few of these differentbuilding types and uncover how
they really can affect ourmental health. At TreanorHL, we
provide specialty design forhealthcare facilities, pre K
through 12 schools, highereducation facilities, and
(01:50):
detention facilities with aspecific focus on restorative
justice. Our team designs formental health in every single
one of these facilities.
Principals from each of thesedesign teams have joined me
today to talk more about it.
Thank you all for being here. Goahead and introduce yourselves
and share a little bit moreabout your studio and the
(02:11):
facilities you design.
Jeff Lane (02:13):
This is Jeff Lane, and I am with TreanorHL. I'm in
the Justice studio. I'm aprincipal, and I've been working
on justice work for over 23years, and really, really
enhancing and engaging in traumainformed design and normative
design here over the last fiveto seven years as we've seen
this evolve within ourprofession.
Stephanie Grose (02:36):
And this is Stephanie Grose. I am a
principal within our Educationstudio. I, like Jeff, have been
working on education projectsfor over 22 years. So have seen
things kind of come and go alongthe way. And I'm really
encouraged by the conversationsthat have been happening. Also
within the last five to sevenyears within our school clients
(02:58):
with a focus on how to bettersupport students.
Steve Carr (03:02):
Hi, I'm Steve Carr.
I'm a principal with TreanorHL.
Like Stephanie and Jeff, I'vebeen practicing architecture for
a good deal longer, but I'vebeen focused only in healthcare
for about 30 years. It's mypassion. And they became evident
probably, I don't know, 15 yearsago, of how the behavioral
health mental health world wasconnecting, well always has
(03:25):
been, tied at the hip withhealth care, but not an obvious
thing that people were trying tocover until it started to put a
lot of pressure on healthsystems.
Megan Brock (03:35):
So what is the importance of mental health
awareness to you personally? Andwhat is the importance to us at
TreanorHL?
Stephanie Grose (03:42):
I think you know, as architects, our basic
oath that we take is to preservehealth, safety, welfare and the
projects we do. And if we aren'ttalking about mental health,
we're missing a big component ofthat. So to me, that's where
it's important for us to reallybring this to the forefront in
all the different ways that thephysical environment can support
(04:04):
it. And when I think about it ona personal level, I have a lot
of friends who have children whoare coming into their teenage
years, and a lot of ourconversations center around
their pressures and theiranxiety and depression and the
pressures that they face everyday. And I think about, this is
really wonderful that we canhave these open conversations
(04:26):
because I can also think aboutmy grandmother and how in her
time having these kinds ofstruggles are something that you
kept quiet. And I saw andcontinue to see
multi-generational impact ofthat. So it's there's a lot of
pieces to this that I take toheart and I just think it's so
important.
Steve Carr (04:47):
Yeah, Stephanie, I think it became so obvious a
couple of decades ago, really,there are so many social and
cultural issues that arehappening globally. that
behavioral health is a rootcause of If, and if we're going
to really be professionally, ifwe're if we're really going to
be good problem solvers, we haveto understand the root cause the
(05:09):
problems that we're trying tosolve. So I think that's, for me
is important, bothprofessionally and personally.
Jeff Lane (05:18):
What really drove for me, behavioral health was being
a part of some processes that wewent through in Douglas County
over a 10-year period, to see acommunity that really captured
the idea of helping not justincarcerated folks, but helping
the whole entire community, andbeing able to be a part of a
(05:39):
process that thought about aCrisis Recovery Center, a
process that thought about thejudiciary and pretrial services,
the thinking about how do weengage mental health in a jail
component and how all of thosecome together. I think, for me,
that really brought to theforefront, the lack of agencies
(06:00):
that were out there, the lack ofhelp that was out there. And so
that's really triggered anelement in architecture that
needed to happen.
Megan Brock (06:10):
And what about the clients we work with? What is
the importance of mental healthawareness to them? And what
about the end users, those whoare actually living and using
and working within thesefacilities day in and day out?
Stephanie Grose (06:22):
I think, you know, a lot of our clients
probably across the board have auniversal struggle with staffing
shortage, and how that impactsthe services that they're able
to deliver. And I think aboutobviously, schools in
particular, and just how theratio of school psychologist or
(06:42):
school counselor to the numberof students is completely out of
proportion. So here we arehaving these these teachers and
the staff that try to make upfor that pandemic, not only the
academics, but that socialemotional learning, but they
don't have the funding or theresources to do so. And I like
(07:02):
to think how we can pull ourbrains together and tackle it
through that kind of lens aswell. And that's a little harder
nut to crack.
Steve Carr (07:12):
Our firm is positioned well, to help, you
know, we do work with universityhousing, in schools, justice and
health. And if we can connectthe dots, you know, in the in
the projects that we're doingbetween clients, and gaining an
understanding of you know, wheretheir pressure points are,
relative to behavioral health,mental health, we can really be
(07:35):
an important player by helpingthem connect those dots.
Jeff Lane (07:39):
Well and Steve, I think it's the idea that we
collaborate together as a group,too. So as a firm, we've
actually been able to takeelements within health or higher
ed, or our K through 12 groupand our justice group and have
conversations about how are weaddressing some of these things,
whether it's both across theboard, or bringing it to a
project that we may have?
Stephanie Grose (07:59):
Yeah, we sure do. And especially in the
smaller towns, thosepartnerships really make all the
difference. And we've seen thatconnection between healthcare
and schools happen with clinicsbeing implemented within the
school spaces so that it'seasily accessible, which is
probably the first and foremostimportant thing when it comes to
supporting mental health andother health services. And it's
(08:23):
all kind of right there.
Megan Brock (08:25):
So how do you design for each of these very
specific facility types forpositive mental health outcomes?
What are some of those elements?
And what do they look like? Howare they used?
Steve Carr (08:37):
Our clients in healthcare, they recognized just
from a business perspective,they needed to make some kind of
change to survive, they startedpushing care upstream. You know,
it's kind of the analogy thatthey've used converting to more
of a population health model. Wehave a huge aging population in
the United States, that willcreate high acuity, health care,
(08:59):
multiple morbidity issues, thatwill continue to put pressure on
the hospital systems. But whatthey've been seeing with with it
on the behavioral health side isthey need to be able to take the
time to manage those cases in adifferent way. And they need
also their staff needs to becollaborating better, and
literally back-to-back in spacewith each other, where someone
(09:21):
can recognize that someone has aphysical ailment that it could
be tied directly to some otherproblem that they have, and they
can refer them to theircolleagues, you know, that can
help them with that. We have aproject in Colorado that we did
and there's a lot of peoplethere that really need help and
they didn't have any primarycare in in their town for over
(09:44):
15 years. And they were allforced to drive down to the
front range they ended upputting together, it's actually
the County Department of HumanServices put together a project
that we work with them on thatcombined clinical health, they
partnered with a hospital systemto provide a clinical help, and
a behavioral health group withtheir social services all in one
(10:06):
building. So that all of thoseprofessionals could be
back-to-back in one facility andtreating people, you know
whether they were there for foodstamps, or whether they were
there because they just broke anarm. So that was a real fun
project to be involved in. Andit's been working very well for
them.
Jeff Lane (10:23):
That's really neat.
Steve, you talk about thesmaller communities and you talk
about how do you engage some ofthose in projects from the
standpoint of they may belacking in some of the agencies
or other the continuum of carein facilities. And that's one of
the things that I think we allsee from an architectural
perspective. But I also wouldsay here over the last few
(10:45):
years, or even even longer,there's more engagement with
smaller communities with thoseagencies. Either they're coming
into their own communities, andthen engaging, whether it's
county facility, the groups, thehealth groups, the schools, or
they may be partnering withlarger communities that have
those same agencies and actuallybringing those groups together
(11:08):
to help support. And I thinkthat's the other pieces we've
lost, or we used to not have inthe smaller communities, those
pieces, how do we now capturethat? And how do we bring those
those elements to them? Bothfrom an architecture
perspective, as well as from,how do we educate them having
some of those conversations?
Steve Carr (11:31):
There's a stigma, too, that people may have when
they need help. And in theproject I was talking about, it
was actually in a main streetlocation, we provided a front
porch and a front living room.
So people would be comfortablecoming in the building. It's in
a small town, everybody knowseverybody. So they're like, oh,
I saw you go into the buildingthe other day, you know, what
(11:52):
are you doing there, and itdoesn't matter, you know, and
they help break down that stigmaby creating a facility there
that is very welcoming, andopen. And you can be there for
many different reasons. And it'scomfortable for someone even
just to walk in from the street,that doesn't necessarily know if
they need any help, right? Theyhave a little giveaway place for
(12:12):
clothing, and a fireplace. It'sa very open facility that way.
Stephanie Grose (12:19):
That's pretty interesting. It follows a
similar path as the schools, youknow, the counseling services
used to be something that was alittle bit remote and had a
backdoor entrance to keepeverything real secretive. And
we've seen this trend of pullingit out and centralizing it
within the school again, goingback to accessibility, but it's
destigmatizing. And then it'salso centered in the information
(12:43):
commons or the library. Sonobody knows why you're there.
But you pop in to say hi to yourcounselor, or maybe there's a
meeting that you know, yourparents come in to have with
somebody just really makes it,you know, part of the everyday
and not so secretive.
Jeff Lane (12:59):
Yeah, at the Crisis Recovery Center, we did
something very similar, weactually created two entrances.
So we have the public entranceand, and a drop off location
that you and I could come to ifwe brought somebody in our own
community. But if you wanted tobe a little bit more discreet,
we had the side entrance, sothat you can still walk into a
really well lit lobby spacethat's inviting non-obtrusive,
(13:24):
and having a conversation withreception as to where I need to
go. And those are things that Ialso think as we look at
architecture and how we design,those are things to bring that
anxiety down. Those individualsthat are coming there many times
they either don't want to comeor they're afraid to come. So
how do we help within ourarchitecture to do some of those
things. And I think capturingnatural daylighting and thinking
(13:46):
about acoustics within thosespaces has just been very
engaging.
Steve Carr (13:51):
One of the things that's been happening in
Colorado is Mental Health FirstAid. There's a program where you
can get training, they focusedon teachers, law enforcement,
EMT, etc. I've actually takenthe course myself, but it helps
people recognize first aid whensomeone may have an issue. I
think what's helped a lot in thelast couple of decades. Our
(14:12):
emergency departments who hadthis huge problem, because
police officers were droppingpeople off that belonged
somewhere else. And I had one ofmy clients say, hey, they
brought a person in so we'regoing to leave them here and he
said, well, are they underarrest? Are they not under
arrest? That's not how it works.
And so that's what the crisiscenter that Jeff is referring to
is another option instead ofjust dropping them in an
(14:36):
emergency department wherethey're going to go into a black
hole for the next six hours. OurCommunity Care Center in Idaho
Springs is the the project I wasreferring to in Colorado and
that project. Literally whathappened was a former mayor of
the town died on the way to thehospital. And that was the
catalyst for the whole communityto come together. We worked with
(14:57):
them for about eight yearsbefore they ever even started
anything, identifying sites andtrying to find out how to get
funding, they ended up workingout their partnership with
Centura Health, specifically St.
Anthony Hospital, which is rightdown the valley. And the big
reason that St. Anthony Hospitalwas concerned, is people without
(15:19):
insurance, were being put inambulances and sent to St.
Anthony, it was the closesthospital. So they were getting
these patients that had a veryexpensive ambulance ride that
they couldn't pay for, didn'thave insurance. And so it was
piling onto the St. AnthonyHospital. So they were very
motivated to help Idaho Springsget a clinic in place. So they
(15:42):
could, as I mentioned earlier,move upstream and provide
preventive care. They alsostarted a program with their
ambulance drivers, providingthem with a list of addresses of
people that they could check inon once in a while, you know,
elderly people in town familiesthat had had issues. So that was
also a really smart thing theycould do for a small town, they
(16:06):
really put together an awesomeholistic healthcare program.
Jeff Lane (16:10):
So on the Crisis Recovery Center, there are a
multitude of groups that broughtthis project together. It really
started years ago, as we lookedat the justice system, and the
community. And so there was aneed to look at medical mental
health beds at the jail. Andthere was also the need to think
(16:31):
about alternative courts, mentalhealth court, drug abuse court
that the county currently didn'thave. And in that conversation,
the discussion of what came outof that was the Crisis Recovery
and Treatment Center. So werecognize that there was these
three elements that needed to bewoven together and engaged in
some fashion. The countypartnered with Bert Nash Mental
(16:53):
Health Group, an agency in thecommunity, and then LMH, as
well, the hospital there, andthe community, and then the
county. Now, other agencies havebeen a part of the process and
partnered as well throughout thecommunity. But those were the
main three. And they cametogether and said, Let's let's
To Steve's point, it was, therewere individuals that were being
go do this.
(17:15):
picked up by law enforcement andtaken to the hospital, or taken
to the jail, those became theplaces so they booked them in,
but they really didn't need tobe booked in or they take him to
the to the hospital. And whenthey went to the hospital, they
go to the emergency room, andthen they go sit there for six
hours. But that, that wasn'twhat they needed. They needed
some help, they needed maybe adetox component, it may be that
(17:38):
that I need to come in and andhave some folks talk to me and
get back on track to where I'mtrying to go. And so Crisis
Recovery Center became thatbuilding, and they were able to
capture and create a 72-hourcomponent that allows for
individuals to come, whetherthat's through the law
enforcement now being able tobring them directly to that
(18:00):
facility, or somebody like youand I that have a spouse or a
family member that needs somecare. But it became a continuum
of care, too, because part ofwhat this facility is going to
do is those folks that arecurrently in the county jail
that are receiving mental healthhelp from Bert Nash or other
groups, if they are leaving thejail and back out into the
(18:24):
community now have a place to goand can have consultations in
lieu of having to go maybe toBert Nash. So it allowed for
some continuum of care to happenin that community.
Stephanie Grose (18:36):
And I hear you guys talk about this holistic
approach with the differentagencies coming together. With
school, sometimes it's more of amicro holistic approach, if that
makes sense. There's adiscussion around the whole
child. And it's, you know, thesocial well being emotional,
physical, intellectual, all ofthose sorts of things. And it's
(18:58):
pretty interesting to thinkabout because, you know, for
some of the students, school istheir safest place. Home isn't
secure. And so making sure thatwe're reaching out beyond just
the academics is just anotherway to approach all of this. I
listened to a presentation notthat long ago on the science
(19:18):
behind the whole child approach.
And they talked about, you know,the brain chemicals and things
that happen when studentsexperience connection, and have
a sense of belonging, and howthe chemicals that the brain
release actually counteracts theeffects of cortisol or the
stress that they have. So thatkind of like what you were
talking about, Jeff, the traumainformed design, creating
(19:39):
environments that facilitate thesense of belonging is such a
powerful way to do that.
Megan Brock (19:47):
So how can we as designers, working on all of
these different facility types,work together to better
anticipate mental health needs?
Steve Carr (19:55):
I think we're pretty good at empathy for the people
that we're designing ourbuildings for, and going back to
the root cause, you know, ofwhat's happening with the, with
the users of the facilities thatwe designed. The other thing,
Stephanie, that I was going toask you is a champion is really
critical, right, on the clientside, and having a client that's
(20:17):
empathetic, and a client that isa champion. Schools are
constantly hammered for budget,I know that Denver Public
Schools did a zip codehotspotting thing. And they kind
of figured out where a lot oftheir cases were coming from for
the hospital for the DenverHealth Hospital. And then they
put clinics into thoseneighborhoods, in schools, in
(20:42):
elementary schools, or theypartnered with them in some way.
I'm not sure if it's literally aclinic, but they partnered with
them, to help them staff, theschool nurse, or even if they
can afford to have a schoolnurse anymore, you know, that's
just rotating around betweendifferent schools. But that also
was a huge issue. Right? It'sbeen able to put together
something that can get funded.
Stephanie Grose (21:03):
Right.
Absolutely. I mean, they theschool districts are hammered
for funding in every which way.
And this often kind of drops tothe bottom, especially rural
communities that they wouldnever be able to support a
full-time nurse or a full-timepsychologist, you've got one
person that's traveling aroundto all the schools, I think what
(21:24):
you described with the clinicsbeing put into the schools that
they've figured out had the mostneed is pretty intriguing. I'd
love to learn more about that.
Steve Carr (21:34):
Yeah, I think that's been going pretty well for them.
The other thing, I think thatthere is cross-training people
so that if I'm a securityperson, they're not saying, you
know, I see that going on overthere but that's not my job.
They're willing to go out andpick something up in the parking
lot or partner with somebody,you know, in our case, at a
(21:54):
hospital, they, they'repartnering a lot with the
greeters the front door, wherethey can actually see out, you
know, the front of the building,and they can see, did somebody
fall down, out there. Butgetting rid of that it's not my
job mentality, and getting morewith less, right, which is what
they all have to do, becausethey're cross-trained to
(22:15):
identify problems, and help ifthey're in a position to do
that.
Stephanie Grose (22:20):
This kind of leads into a little bit of the
discussion around, you know,safety and security in those
schools, I read some interestingstatistics that I think it was
up to 70% of school shootings,the root can be tied back to
bullying that the shooterexperienced. And so, you know,
you see a movement to do all ofthese hardening type activities
(22:44):
in schools kind of going moretoward the prison effect rather
than the learning environmentthat we're striving for. And it
makes me wonder, and it makesour whole studio wonder, about
the different ways in which wecan provide security without
necessarily making it feel hardlike that. And I know that the
(23:05):
Justice studio is doing quite abit of work probably coming more
toward the school direction andlessening that feel. So it seems
like there's some sort of in themiddle part that we're both
arriving at.
Jeff Lane (23:18):
I think that's a great point. Because I'm right
with you. I was just as you weretalking through this idea of
schools hardening, and I'm notgoing to date myself at all, but
when I was going to school, wedidn't have that conversation,
right. But there is that safetysecurity element in the justice
world. In the past, there's thisidea that we want to make it as
(23:38):
hard as we can. But I think toyour point, Stephanie, we're now
going hey, wait a minute, bringthe anxiety down, create an
environment that is a little bitsofter. And thinking about color
a little bit more. How do webring natural daylighting in? I
know we need to do a scanner anda magnetometer, I get all those
things. How do we engage theofficer that's going to rove
(24:02):
around? They're there, they'repart of the environment, but
they're not here with the bigstick. I think those are things
that as we continue, and I knowthat our groups are currently
working on a couple projectstogether to think about that,
collectively.
Stephanie Grose (24:17):
I'm thinking about a particular project that
we worked on recently, it's akindergarten through 12th grade
school. And that particularclient was really about making
sure students felt like theybelonged there. And so while
there are the secure elements atthe front door, they're not as
noticeable. And then, you know,security happened more naturally
(24:39):
throughout the design of thebuilding. Also, for us,
providing daylighting within thewhole facility. A natural secure
outcome of that is that you havethis transparency and you have a
vista out to you know, the frontof the building or the back of
the building. And so, you know,while we do have some clients
that say we really we want tohave that bulletproof glass and
we want to have everything youknow, contained and locked and
(25:01):
that sort of thing. We are alsoseeing a number of schools push
back and say, hey, we're at theheart of the community. And we
want people to feel thatconnection when they come into
this building, especially ourstudents.
Steve Carr (25:13):
You know, in our case, the treatment areas, we're
setting the space up so peoplecan have a really good
conversation with eye-to-eyecontact. You can include the
family in a genuine conversationcircle, and at the same time
provide, you know, for the needsof the physician, or the
psychiatrists, if we positionthem near the door, because
(25:34):
things happen. And theysometimes need to just be able
to get out, you know, they don'tput the family between them and
the door. So just the ways thatwe're organizing those rooms,
but most importantly, settingthem up so they can have a
really good conversation, andthey can be connected with each
other.
Stephanie Grose (25:52):
That's so important, that kind of human
scaling of spaces and setting upfor those interactions. And in
the educational setting, we talka lot about making sure that
we're not shoving akindergartener into a big
soaring adult space, becausewhat better way to create
anxiety than to do that, andjust making sure that we're
keeping the child's scale inmind and the impact that that
(26:15):
has to your, your well being.
And then also those differenttypes of spaces for different
types of students. You know,some kids want to sit on the
side and observe, some kids wantto be in the middle of
everything, and making sure thatwe provide those opportunities
for all types is important.
Jeff Lane (26:32):
You know, when you talk about those types of
things, I think about furniture,I know, years past, and just
from the justice side, furniturewas not friendly, but it's
gotten softer. And so we one ofthe things we did in the Crisis
Recovery Center was because ofthe types of individuals that
might be in that facility, theywere concerned about putting
furniture in there that wasfurniture you may see in, in a
(26:54):
school or in a hospital, becausepeople can pick them up and do
damage with them or hurtsomebody or whatever else. So we
actually worked to find a moredense furniture, when we looked
for that the client asked us,we're okay with that, but we
still want it to feel like it'snormative. And I'm still in my
living room. And so we workedwith a couple different vendors
(27:16):
to find furniture that's likethat, it fit a little bit better
than what it would have if itwas, you know, corrections-type
furniture. And so that's theother piece that we're starting
to see within our world to helpthe process, too, as we think
about behavioral health.
Stephanie Grose (27:31):
And we were seeing furniture that is
designed to allow students tomove. So when they feel that
urge, or you know, the what wemight have typically called the
ADHD-type students in the in thepast, you know, they need to
move to be able to stay focusedon what they're doing and stay a
part of the class environment.
So seeing that come to theforefront is pretty interesting,
(27:52):
and learning the science behindthat as well. I'm always
interested in the science behindthings.
Jeff Lane (28:00):
Well speaking of science, I want to share a
statistic that is estimated that97% of incarcerated individuals
in the United States haveexperienced one or more traumas
in their lives. So when youthink about that, that's pretty
big deal. So we're talking aboutagencies, we're talking about
other building types, how doesarchitecture help to engage that
(28:23):
and I know we talked aboutnatural daylighting, we've
talked about some furniture,we've talked about, how do we
handle finishes? I also think itcomes down to how do we handle
the spaces that theseindividuals are going to be in?
And what does that look like atthe end of the day? Is that
changing? For us, when we thinkabout those spaces, it really
comes down to how do we bring itto a more normalized
(28:45):
environment, because most of thefolks that are going to be in
are there for an amount of time,it's not five minutes, or an
hour or a day, they're there forthree or four days or
potentially 16 days or longer.
So how do we engage thearchitecture to be a little bit
more normative?
Steve Carr (29:04):
Actually just giving people choices about the space
that they're in, so when theyget somewhere, they can find a
place where they're comfortable.
You know, the other analogy islike in a restaurant or a lobby,
you can sit as a group or youcan sit as an individual guests
the wall at a bar top and lookout the window. Just giving
people choices, you know,whether they're under lock and
(29:25):
key, but they may not feel thatway.
Jeff Lane (29:30):
That's a good point.
I was thinking as you weretalking there, Steve, the idea
that quiet rooms and things thatwe actually incorporate into
some of our facilities. Youtalked about the choice of do I
have a roommate, or do I nothave a roommate? There are
individuals that that is a goodchoice, right? Some of them want
somebody to be in the samesleeping room, and some don't,
(29:51):
some have a real anxiety issuewith someone else in the same
room.
Stephanie Grose (29:58):
You know, it kind of goes back to that idea
of of science and theneuroscience of how people
perceive space. And when you cancreate that sense of trust and
safety and belonging, thatoxytocin gets released. And that
is what counteracts the effectsof trauma. And so can our
architecture actually heal?
Megan Brock (30:18):
I think you may have just titled our episode,
Stephanie, can architectureheal? It's interesting how you
brought up choice, Steve,because that seems to be an
important element across allbackgrounds and life situations.
Having choice and learning theresponsibility of choice can be
really powerful. So even thoseelements that you all are
talking about on the microlevel, within schools or
(30:41):
rehabilitative environments,those could be extended to a
macro level within ourcommunities. And that extends
across those services and thosesystems that we interact with.
So on the more macro level, whatare some of those elements of
design that overlap between ourareas of practice?
Jeff Lane (30:58):
So on the Crisis Recovery Center, we actually did
collaborate together with ourhealth group, and our justice
group. So that project, weworked hand-in-hand, as we did
the design and planning for thatproject. We needed to make sure
that we understood how we werehandling the secure pieces, the
element of design from a justiceperspective, but then being able
(31:22):
to reach back and talk aboutsome of the same things that
that Steve talked about. How dowe get the views into these
areas that are a little bit moresoft on the health side? And how
do we engage the agencies inthese these spaces for quiet
areas and other spaces, we alsohad, we have a nurses area, and
(31:43):
to be able to work through thattogether. So that we were able
to have a conversation about howthat needed to operate, function
and look and engage with therest of the architecture. We
also have had conversations andcontinue to collaborate with our
education group as we thinkabout classrooms and program
spaces, but also thinking aboutthe individuals that we work
(32:06):
with on our justice end havethose types of spaces as well.
You know, it's intriguing today,as we talked about, not just
kids, but adults in giving themspaces that may be a little
different, but different fromthe perspective of what it used
to be. It may be that that's nowhow schools are functioning, set
up and designed. So maybe ourjustice projects need to be
(32:29):
thinking about those same typesof things, because those
individuals are coming to be apart of that. And to be able to
share this with a client now hasthe ability to think about
innovative ways of doing justicework that's completely different
than what we've ever done beforeor from a health perspective,
how do we engage behavioralhealth?
Stephanie Grose (32:46):
I know that connection to the outdoors is
pretty important in thehealthcare and the educational
world. Much so we've seen astrong drive toward outdoor
classrooms, because of theeffect of being outside on
learning and mental well being,I can see that as an area of
overlap as well.
Steve Carr (33:06):
Valley Hope, which is a rehabilitation center in
Parker, Colorado, was a projectwe did and they couldn't afford
to grow their buildings as muchas they really wanted to. So we
ended up really capitalizing onthe exterior space for that
project so they could do exactlywhat you're talking about
Stephanie where they could haveoutdoor classrooms. I think the
other thing that occurred to methat we all have in all of our
(33:30):
studio disciplines is justobservation, making people feel
like they're not in a fishbowl,also humanizing places where
people, especially where peoplelive, making it less
institutional. So and then, ofcourse, there's the self-harm
aspect, and understanding theplaces you know, where people
are most likely to hurtthemselves. And if you have to
(33:54):
harden something, then kind offocus on the places where
something is more likely tohappen, then making the entire
facility that way, especially,you know, in the more social
areas, and where there's a goodobservation, you can do a lot
more to soften that space andmake it less institutional.
Stephanie Grose (34:14):
I just had a client meeting yesterday. And
they said something prettyinteresting, too, that I think
relates to this conversation,and that is this notion of
efficiency and how we can tryand optimize everything in our
buildings to a point where theymight start to feel inhuman. And
so it's important to make surethat we don't take efficiency
too far. And maybe some of thosedisruptions are good. And he
(34:38):
pointed out disruptions thatfacilitate those connections and
those conversations areimportant to have.
Megan Brock (34:45):
So what overall defines a successful
community-driven approach tomental health?
Jeff Lane (34:51):
A successful project or a successful outcome is when
the community is engaged andhaving a conversation and
understanding that architecture,and the design that we do, can
help further the benefit ofmental health. That, to me is a
success. I also think about aclient that we are currently
working with that we started aproject three years ago. And
(35:15):
there was a group when we wereinterviewing for the project
that came to the interview,because it was open public
interview. And, and they got toask questions. And when they
asked the questions, theirquestion that they were about
was programs, and mental health.
How are we engaging that in thisproject? And who was going to do
(35:35):
that? And the commissioners hadto answer that question, right?
Well, that was not part of theRFQ, the proposal, that wasn't
part of the design at the verybeginning, as they were planning
it, it was not part of it. Andwe were able to come in, as a
team, and work through what thatis, and what it looked like for
(35:57):
that project. And I can tellyou, that Sheriff, the county
manager, the community, isexcited that we were able to
capture spaces that are going todo those things, to be able to
know that we started with thisidea that the community wanted
it. And it was important tothem, and to be able to move
(36:18):
that needle forward. To me,that's, that's success.
Steve Carr (36:24):
I was thinking about the rural health that we do
rural health care, realeducation, justice facilities,
and they're almost easierbecause the communities are
smaller. I know Stephanie, youknow, when she goes to a
community meeting in Del Norte,everyone is there, they're
involved, and they want to knowwhat's going on. They want to
(36:45):
know why they're, you know, ifthey passed a bond issue, or if
they're about to, they want toknow what that extra tax is
going to be for, and they getreally engaged, it's super
satisfying in, especially in therural areas, you know, because
you, you get to know peoplepersonally, and it really makes
our jobs really rewarding. Howdo you do that in a large urban
area, right? And, you know, oneof the things that we've done
(37:07):
with the hospital systems is wehave asked them when we're
starting a project, to havecommunity meetings where
community members are invited,where past patients are invited,
so they can actually raise thebar of what is going to be that
success. When you get a12-year-old kid that's had
cancer for four years telling astory about what they went
(37:29):
through, it's very impactful.
That's what success is for thisproject.
Stephanie Grose (37:34):
I echo Steve's sentiments, that it's easy to
have that community connectionin the rural areas and much more
difficult in the urban areas.
But I think across the board, Iwould see success if we can
continue to have acceptance andawareness and inclusion of
mental health and mentalwellbeing as a part of the
(37:55):
design conversation. I think alot of our clients don't
understand or we haven't had aconversation about how we might
impact that very important partof their world. And so how can
we wrap it into our processesthat that conversation just
happens naturally.
Megan Brock (38:16):
Great insights, everyone. Thank you again for
joining me today on thisepisode. At TreanorHL, we work
with clients in a range ofbuilding sectors all over the
country. As you heard from theteam here today, we push design
across boundaries to supportentire communities because it
just makes sense. The buildingswe spend our time inhabiting
should do more for us. And witha community-oriented
(38:39):
perspective, they really canmake a positive impact. You can
visit the show notes to learnmore about the individual
projects mentioned throughoutthis episode. You can also visit
treanorhl.com to learn moreabout how we've helped all of
our clients with space solutionsthat fit their unique needs.
Until next time, thank you forjoining us on this episode of
(39:00):
TreanorHL Talks. TraeanorHL is anational architecture, planning,
and design firm located in theUnited States. We hold a firm
belief in sharing compellingstories and data-driven insights
with professionals, clients, andbuilding users to help design
the world we want to live in.
For more information visittreanorhl.com That's
t-r-e-a-n-o-r-h-l.com.
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