June 5, 2020 • 38 mins
Since earlier this year, higher education institutions globally have made the most dramatic shift in teaching methods in history—and it was made almost overnight. Those following news surrounding the pandemic’s effect on higher education already know this shift is changing the operational and financial landscapes of many colleges and universities. But what does it mean for students? We wanted to know what it’s like being a participant in this learning shift, and what students really need and want moving forward. In that spirit, we invited four students from various universities to share their thoughts with us.
TreanorHL is a national architecture, planning, and design firm located in the United States. The company holds a firm belief in sharing resources and insights with professionals, clients, and building users to shape the space we use to live and grow as people. For more information, visit treanorhl.com.
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Episode Transcript
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Megan Brock (00:05):
Welcome to TreanorHL Talks, a podcast about
architecture, planning, anddesign trends, as well as the
current events and noteworthytopics in the field. I'm your
host, Megan Brock, introducingtoday's topic, the impact of
COVID-19 on higher educationlearning. Since earlier this
year, higher educationinstitutions globally have made
the most dramatic shift inteaching methods in history. And
(00:28):
it was made almost overnight.
Those of you who have followednews surrounding the pandemic's
effect on higher education,already know the shift is
changing the operational andfinancial landscapes of many
colleges and universities. Butwhat does that mean for
students? What about the classof 2020? We wanted to know what
it's like being a participant inthis learning shift, and what
(00:48):
students really need and wantmoving forward. In that spirit,
we invited four students fromvarious universities to share
their thoughts with us. Joiningme today are Hassan and Nadia,
who are interns in the studentlife studio at TreanorHL, as
well as Ashleigh and Anna, whoare also current students.
Joining me from TreanorHL is TimReynolds and Nadia Zhiri. Tim
(01:09):
and Nadia help colleges designspaces that help students live,
learn and grow as they preparethemselves for professional
careers. So thank you all forjoining me today, virtually.
Nadia, I will go ahead and turnit over to you.
Nadia Zhiri (01:27):
Well, thanks, Megan. I'm Nadia Zhiri, I'm a
principal at TreanorHL and I amour student life studio leader
within Higher Ed. My name is TimReynolds. I'm the principal in
our science and technology grouphere at TreanorHL. Tell us a
little bit about yourself andwhat you're involved in on
(01:49):
campus, what your majors areanything that might be of
interest to us.
Anna Stafford (01:54):
So my name is Anna Stafford. I am at this
point, technically a senior atKU. I'm hoping to graduate at
the end of December. I'm ahistory major. And as far as
what I do on campus, I do a lotof archival work, I was doing a
before the whole COVID-19 thinghappened. I was doing a sort of
history internship working a lotat the Spencer archive, and we
(02:18):
spend a lot of time at thelibraries and things of that
sort. But yeah.
Nadia Laytimi (02:24):
My name is Nadia Laytimi. I'm a I'm going into my
fifth year and five yearaccelerated master's program at
KU. I am a part of Gamma PhiBeta Sorority. And that's
honestly about all I have timewith my internship and school
(02:45):
and trying to say caught up ineverything.
Ashleigh Beane (02:49):
I am Ashleigh, I go to Butler Community College
here in Wichita, and I'mstudying culinary arts and
restaurant management.
Hassan Haltam (02:59):
And my name is Hassan Haltam I'm architecture
student, there'll be a seniornext year doing my undergrad
there and University ofArlington here in Texas. And
it's been an interestingsemester.
Tim Reynolds (03:13):
I can't imagine what this is like for you guys
and how you've felt about it.
But let me ask you first, basedon what you've gone through, if
you could describe yourexperience relative to this
semester, in one word, or onephrase, what would it be?
Nadia Laytimi (03:31):
Mess. It's a mess. Politics, school, the
whole organization. I mean otherI really appreciate our weekly
emails from Treanor and the factthat we're so like involved in
keeping up to date witheverything. I really appreciate
that because I feel like we'renot getting much from the
university and like, and aspectsof like a weekly update. Like
(03:55):
hey, guys, like it's not aspersonal as I feel like our work
messages have been and I thinkhaving even like working still
has made this feel a little bitmore normal.
Anna Stafford (04:09):
I think my word would be like disconnect, like,
in every sense of the wordthere's people have problems
connecting physically onlinetrying everyone's trying to
figure out zoom, everyone'strying to, you know, navigate
this new way of learning butalso there's just a disconnect
from the university not being oncampus every day. There's a
(04:32):
disconnect, obviously,politically, it's being kind of
polarized and that's reallystrange. So there's just a lot
of disconnection with witheverything.
Ashleigh Beane (04:45):
Challenging, very challenging. My degree plan
is meant to be very hands-on,like we do events all year
round. We actually cook inclass, we're supposed to be able
to show step-by-step how we doeverything. And suddenly we
don't have a space where we canjust show our teacher this is
what we're doing along the way,we have to figure out how to
(05:06):
show it from home.
Hassan Haltam (05:08):
For me, that--e word I would think would be, you
know, it's hard to put it in aword, but definitely
challenging. Yeah, I agree withthat.
Tim Reynolds (05:17):
So, Ashleigh, when you say challenging, tell me
what you what's been the mostchallenging part for you?
Ashleigh Beane (05:24):
I've been working three jobs at a time
pretty much for the past twoyears along with being a
student. So going from having aplace to constantly be and then
going to school and talking tomy teachers and talking to other
students. And then going back toone of those three places, I
always have to be to being in myhouse, staring at the same thing
(05:44):
all the time with my co workers,being my cats is a little bit
weird, and stressful.
Tim Reynolds (05:51):
Hassan, tell me what you mean by the word,
challenging?
Hassan Haltam (05:55):
But I think it's been challenging for everyone.
For, for me, personally, eversince I started architecture
program, I transferred fromFinland. I was there for two
years. And then I transferredhere and, you know, I've I
started my undergrad when I wasin my late 30s. So I'm not your
traditional student. And I'vedone a lot of things in business
(06:15):
in the past. So it was shockingto me that you can't have a
pin-up on a PowerPoint. I didn'tget it, you know, so when I was
talking to my professors inFinland, I was like, wait, guys,
why don't we just do this on theprojector? It's gonna be
awesome. You know, I got allthese visuals and stuff. And
they were saying, well, no,that's not how we do it, you
know. So now, it's beenchallenging, and everybody had
to shift gears.
But it's also been a blessing ina way, because you can do a lot
(06:37):
of effects and things like that,when you're showing somebody
your screen. The challenge hasbeen for the communication, and
like what Ashleigh was saying, Imean, it's really hard for the
professor to be like, no, no,no, that's too much salt, or no,
no, no, you shouldn't put thatbuilding here, that should be
over here. Like our last projectwas a master plan in Dallas. So
it was, it was a huge, hugescope. So the challenge was
(07:00):
definitely that the professorwasn't able to, you know, put
some trace paper over mydrawings and fix what I messed
up so royally, you know, as a,as a student.
Nadia Zhiri (07:11):
You know, it's it's an assumption that what we're
experiencing now is going tobecome our new normal, somehow,
things have changed so much. Andwe are all feeling those
changes. So let's have aconversation about what this
learning experience has been,and what you think it's going to
(07:33):
evolve into, and maybe some prosand cons of what this experience
is bringing?
Anna Stafford (07:40):
Sure, yeah, I would say that, overall, I would
say that I had a really positiveexperience. Obviously, it wasn't
ideal. A lot of my classes,especially in the history
department rely on discussion inclass where you're interacting
with your peers and yourinstructors. So it was it was
(08:01):
very difficult to sort of gofrom that to most days, just not
even having that kind ofdiscourse with anyone. Besides,
one of my classes would holdlike zoom lectures, twice a
week, everyone else just kind ofwas like, uh, here's what you
need to do get in touch with usif you have any other
information, like if you needany other information. And that
(08:24):
was I was able to handle thatpretty well. But so it was
positive in the sense that thetransition was pretty smooth.
But the I guess one con of itwas that you you miss that
interaction that is so helpfulin learning the material.
Nadia Laytimi (08:41):
Yeah, I would have to say the same thing. It's
a lot of like the accountabilityof being in class is lost, just
having those conversations,especially with my my studio
class, it's a six credit class,like we really rely on feedback
from our peers and ourprofessor. So it was just hard
(09:01):
having a review session that wason Zoom. So it wasn't
necessarily like the feedback wewould have hoped for, for a
final project. But I think wedid a really good job actually
in handling in my studio. We hadlike this really big zoom
session with like 40participants and we had, like 20
(09:22):
different professors or notprofessors, but associate
professors like people whoworked at different firms around
the US. They were able to callin, so we were able to actually
get feedback from architects. SoI think that was a cool way of
handling the transition andmaybe can be used again.
Nadia Zhiri (09:43):
How did that work exactly? I mean, what that it
was 40 people and they were allon and how was it a cool
experience?
Nadia Laytimi (09:52):
With that session, he did these like
breakout sessions where we wouldget different reviewers and we
would all reconvene back to ourzoom session. And then we hop
out in these breakout sessionswith like two reviewers. And we
got, I got to meet with fourreviewers. And that was more
than I had expected to.
Tim Reynolds (10:11):
How important is the face-to-face interaction
that you have with your studentpeers to you relative to your
college experience?
Ashleigh Beane (10:23):
Well, in restaurant management and
culinary, I kind of feel likeit, it can be a hugely
beneficial thing for us. We allhave different ideas of how
restaurants should be run, howkitchens should be run, we all
share ideas for recipes. So wekind of build off of each other,
and having the opportunity tointeract with each other really
helps with that. But at the sametime, there's other ways to do
(10:45):
that, that don't involvephysically being in front of
each other. We all have socialmedia, so we could just as
easily get on a Zoom call once aweek and talk about what we
thought of the class andeverything and how we feel about
the recipes, what we wouldimprove on and everything. It
doesn't require us to be in thesame room.
Hassan Haltam (11:03):
Yeah, and it's funny, Ashleigh, you should
mention social media. Becauseimagine if this happened 15
years ago, pre-Facebook orpre-WhatsApp, or pre-anything or
pre-Zoom are all the I know, wejust be so out in the middle of
the lake, just we'd all be lost.
Yeah. So it's interesting howthese things have kind of
progressed to the point where weare now and now everything kind
of kicked into high gear what weneed, we need all this tech, you
(11:25):
know, to communicate, but yeah,I agree with everything Ashleigh
said, definitely. I mean, weit's a very collaborative
effort.
Nadia Laytimi (11:34):
Yeah, all of we, I feel like, since we've been
through so many years, we havelike a group of just
architecture friends, we'vetexted group message and just
stay like up to date with eachother and just checking in
constantly, like, how are youguys doing? Like, we know, this
is weird, like, don't, don'tmake it feel normal, like, you
know, so we, I feel like, it'snice to have like a space where
(11:57):
you can talk freely to your,like classmates and like, let
them know, like, Hey, I'm goingthrough the same thing to like,
it's not just you like thingsare going to be okay. You know,
just encouragement.
Anna Stafford (12:11):
Yeah, keeping, keeping in touch with like,
friends has been difficult, likea lot of my friends that I had
here, just went back home. Solike, be with their parents. And
so it's, it's hard to kind ofstay in touch, but we've been
trying and, but also there'slike, even just on social media,
(12:34):
keeping in touch with otherclassmates, and seeing that
everyone's kind of going throughthe same thing is really
helpful. And it keeps it keepsyou motivated, you know, the
least bit that you can, justbecause you can see that
everyone else is also goingthrough it and you're not alone
and struggling to to keep keepthe faith.
Nadia Zhiri (12:54):
There's a certain feel that you must have had,
being a student and doing thingson campus. How was that changing
for you? And is it somethingthat you miss at all?
Nadia Laytimi (13:07):
Yeah, um, obviously, I miss my friends.
Everything's been really hard.
They had to, like move everyoneout of our house. And everyone,
so everyone's home, basically.
It's, it's a weird transition.
And especially since like, Ihave a younger sister who's
going into her freshman year atK State, I'm kind of thinking
(13:28):
about her and like worried abouther, like, she's not going to
have the same opportunity I hadand coming to school and like,
kind of being set loose, like inmaking all these new friends.
And I'm like, is she even goingto be able to go on to campus
and kind of get that sameopportunity, and, probably not
the way that we're handlingthings right now in
(13:49):
universities. So it's just, itworries me.
Anna Stafford (13:56):
Yeah, I definitely feel a disconnect,
not being on campus every day. Ifeel like being on campus and
seeing other students just goingthrough the same thing that
you're going through. And thenlike I mentioned before, having
class discussions and seeinginstructors, and just having
spaces where you can sit and dohomework for a moment you know,
(14:19):
it, it makes it feel more realand so when you are in your
apartment trying to you know, dothe same schoolwork it it
doesn't feel as meaningful, ifthat makes sense and it feels a
lot less I just feel like I saidvery disconnected and
unmotivated not being on campusaround everyone.
Nadia Laytimi (14:42):
I think the burnout is a lot more intense to
just since you're trying to doeverything as efficiently as you
were when you were in person athome now and finding like okay,
where are these spaces in thesezones I can make in my space
now. and it's been interesting.
Anna Stafford (15:03):
It's hard to find the right spot to work when
you're in the same spot everyday. And if this were to
continue, I would try to, youknow, set up more of a space for
me to like really sit and do mywork that feels a bit more
official and comfortable. Soyeah, I would try to get like,
(15:24):
more more materials to make itfeel a bit different than what
it is now. Because right now,it's very casual workspace.
Hassan Haltam (15:33):
I've always tried to get groups together and try
to do competitions and thingslike that in university with
colleagues and peers and stuff,and that's kind of challenging
now, but at the same time, wehave more downtime, so maybe
not. But I think it's harder tobreak the ice, and really get to
know somebody, you know, the waywe're doing it now. But I think
there needs to be moreconsistency, because this is
(15:55):
something odd, every professorused a different platform.
Right? Which was just there wasso inconsistent, I would lose,
I'll be like, okay, Allen'sclass that Zoom or is that
Teams, which one is that? And,you know, it's like you're
always trying to, like pedalback. And okay, which platform
is this class in? So I think theuniversities especially should
have a consistency.
Ashleigh Beane (16:16):
Yeah, that's what we did, too. We were all
supposed to use our onlineplatform, it was Canvas, but
every teacher used itdifferently. And it was so hard
to keep up with who was doingwhat, exactly.
Tim Reynolds (16:29):
From a technology standpoint, did your
institutions help out in any wayto get faster internet
connections at home or where youlive? Did they offer you laptops
if you didn't have one? Wasthere any assistance that you
were getting relative totechnology? Or were you on your
own?
Ashleigh Beane (16:49):
The only assistance that Butler offered
was, they made it so that youcould access Zoom for free,
there was a limit on it beforewhere if, for more than 45
minutes, it would cut you off ifyou weren't paying for it. And
they made it so that if youaccessed it through the Butler
website, it was free. But otherthan that, I think the
expectation was that you alreadyhad your camera or your laptop
(17:10):
or whatever you needed.
Nadia Laytimi (17:14):
I at the beginning of all this, I
actually had to buy like higherinternet speed just because I
wasn't able to do everythingthat I was meant to do at home.
So that was kind of one of thetrials and tribulations just
right early on. I now looking atit even during those review
sessions back to like our finalreviews we had and I we had
(17:38):
professors like casuallymentioning how they're going to
be teaching the second year ofstudent studios online and how
this is preparing them right nowfor that. And there's not a lot
of transparency and like lettingstudents know kind of like,
okay, what what's going on? Andlike how can we better prepare?
Because I feel like it's justmentioned, like, I don't know, I
(18:00):
feel like there could be moretransparency from the university
and like, enabling us to be moreprepared, especially if this is
how it's going to be again inthe fall.
Anna Stafford (18:11):
Yeah, I would agree with the transparency
aspect of it, I definitely feellike my professors did the best
that they could, such as shortnotice only having a couple of
weeks to rework, you know, thesyllabus and get everyone like
at a scheduled time for peopleto meet if we were meeting
during zoom. So I feel like itwent okay for the amount of time
(18:35):
that they had. And I think whenthe university does make a
decision about the fallsemester, hopefully, over the
summer, they'll have more timeto kind of tweak the problems
that people were having and makeit a little bit easier for the
majority of the students to havebetter success with the whole
(18:58):
online learning because I feellike I did alright, personally.
But I could definitely tell thatin some of my classes, there
were other people who werestruggling not meeting or maybe
had a harder time have makingconnections just learning
online.
Nadia Laytimi (19:13):
Yeah, definitely.
I even had in the beginning oneof my one of my good friends in
my studio class, he would haveto come over like the first
couple weeks of school becausehe just didn't have Wi-Fi
working in his apartment. So hewould come over and we would do
our Zoom sessions and then hehad to buy some whatever Midco,
you know, just to make thingseasier for him. But then at that
(19:35):
point, it's also his computer'snot working like up to its best,
you know?
Hassan Haltam (19:43):
Yeah, at Arlington they they were pretty
supportive. I think that youneed good equipment to do CAD
and Rhino and whatever else youneed in architecture school, so
they were actually prettysupportive. They did. They did
supply quite a bit of equipmentI think we're on loan and things
like that. And there was accessto the computer labs even during
(20:06):
that day or the pandemic becauseof things like LUMION just for
rendering and stuff for finalprojects. I don't know how they
policed it, I was fortunatebecause of, you know, my place
at Treanor, I, you know, I'vegot some, some some nice
equipment, as far as you know,my work laptop and one of the
computers in Lawrence therewhere you are Tim has LUMION,
which is a really good renderingsoftware, and I was able to
(20:27):
remote into that. So it was ablessing to be, you know, part
of the TreanorHL team duringthis because I had a lot of what
I needed. But yeah, the schooldid okay, I guess. You know, a
lot of people on the calls, andon the sort of the meetings and
studio, you could tell some ofthem were working off the phone
and stuff like that. So I mean,it was pretty limited, but they
(20:49):
did offer it, it could be thatthe students just didn't take
them up on the offer.
Tim Reynolds (20:54):
So tell me about, have your institutions made
plans for the fall semester? Andif they have, what are they?
Ashleigh Beane (21:03):
Butler's current plan is to start classes up
again, as usual, like on campusfor the fall, they're actually
doing a lot of stuff right now,where if you take six credit
hours during the summer, they'llgive you three free credit hours
in the fall. So they're tryingto encourage us to get as much
of it as we can done the summerto minimize how much time we
have to spend there during thefall.
Hassan Haltam (21:24):
Yeah, and with Arlington there, they're also
saying they're treatingeverything pretty normally,
they're not really giving us aPlan B at all, which is odd,
because I really doubt that it'sgoing to be on campus. But
everything, the description ofthe classes, everything is you
know, face-to-face, and theygive you a room number and all
that stuff. But I don't know,I'll believe it when I see it.
Nadia Laytimi (21:42):
I think it's especially to do with the fact I
think schools are still kind ofgiving hope that we're going to
be in-person, but then you talkto professor's and then you hear
kind of a different story. And Ithink there's a lot of confusion
and a lot of people aren'tplanning too far ahead. I don't
know. I talked to the Deanactually during the first week
(22:05):
of quarantines, and he wasletting me know about how the
fact like we can't have studentsback on in the fall without like
having a second wave inSeptember. And then I thought,
right, why would we even invitestudents back on campus? So I'm
like, are you telling me we'renot on campus in the fall? Like,
are we going to come here for amonth in person and do like
(22:27):
weird hybrid? Like, like, how isthat going to work? And
especially with housing, I'mtrying to figure out and I had a
lot more questions, but Iobviously didn't want to
overwhelm him because he'sdealing with tons, I'm sure
already. And but if I had askedhim for something, I think it
would be how are we going to,how are we going to help the
kids who don't have thetechnology to be able to work
(22:49):
the software's that we needefficiently? Because I know one
of my biggest issues is like, mycomputer's really slow, like my
laptop is really slow. And so Istruggle with finishing work
efficiently sometimes. So I'mwondering, what about the people
who don't have even a laptop whohave to go into the bridge lab.
(23:09):
So that's in person stuff theyhave to deal with.
Anna Stafford (23:13):
I haven't heard anything about housing
specifically, I think the lastthing I saw was similar to
Nadia, which was just like,they're still tentatively
planning for like, for us to beback on campus in the fall. But
then, just recently, I saw thatWichita State was there doing
hybrid slash online. That wasthe last thing I saw from them.
(23:35):
So that sort of made me questionlike, I shouldn't get my hopes
up too high. Because other youknow, comparable universities
are doing things differently. Soyeah, I think it right now it's
just very up in the air.
Tim Reynolds (23:51):
So none have none of them talk to you about social
distancing? And when you getback on campus, have they talked
to you about masks, have theytalked to you about we're
limiting the number of studentsin a class so you can maintain
social distancing? Any anyinformation?
Ashleigh Beane (24:08):
Not yet.
Hassan Haltam (24:11):
Which is surprising, really.
Megan Brock (24:14):
Well, what are you comfortable with? What types of
protocols need to be in placebefore you feel safe returning
to campus?
Nadia Laytimi (24:22):
I think, if KU and Lawrence more specifically
had a comprehensive way oftesting and retesting and
tracking the virus and our localtown then I would be more like
if we could like live see, like,who has this virus on campus?
Like are we in danger oftransferring in I just I don't
(24:45):
know if we'll get there. But Ithink that would make me feel
most comfortable. I know thatthere hasn't really been a
comprehensive way of trackingthe virus in the US and that's a
little scary, especially sincewe don't know how like who and
how many people have it. So Idon't think I would be
comfortable with being back oncampus with the amount of people
(25:07):
that usually are on campus untilwe have something like that.
Anna Stafford (25:13):
Yeah, I agree, I think there would be need to be
like, a more cohesive way ofletting us know how we can be
safe around other people,testing, and also just holding
people accountable for beinghygienic, which I have no clue
how they would even do that. Butit would definitely have to be
(25:36):
very well thought out andorganized. And I would have to
feel very secure with whateverthe plan was before I would feel
comfortable being on campus. Butas far as like what that looks
like, it's really hard to saybecause I don't know, within the
sheer number of people, it'd behard to really keep everyone on
the same page. Keep keep thewhole campus clean.
Tim Reynolds (25:59):
So tell me, given the fact that your institutions
are saying they're gonna go backon campus, how do you feel about
that? Are you worried about it?
Are you confident that yourinstitutions are going to take
the steps necessary to keep yousafe?
Ashleigh Beane (26:17):
I think that my, my instructors personally are
going to try to. And I do thinkthat the Dean of our school
cares. But at the same time, Idon't think that it's the best
idea, especially going into thewinter season, when all of this
is more likely to spike again.
And everything I just, itdoesn't seem like a smart idea
to start going back so soon.
Hassan Haltam (26:40):
It's almost shocking to me that they would,
even the lack of lack of clarityabout what the plans are, is
surprising. So I mean, I knowI'm sure they would love to keep
it as safe as they can, but howmuch is really in anyone's
control? You know, so I mean,you know, short of building
cubes for everyone to be in, andthen even that has weird
implications. You know, it'sjust, I can't foresee this thing
(27:04):
is really being a smart move. Asfar as going back in the fall.
You know, and especially if itwas a successful semester, I
really don't know how theresults were, you know,
personally, I had, we werepretty far along when we
started. So we, it was a prettyquick and easy wrap up for me. I
mean, there was the challenges,obviously. But, you know, I
think we could probably keepdoing this until we have some
(27:26):
closure, but I can't, I can'tsee why it would be wise to do
it on, you know, face-to-face.
Because you know, these roomsare pretty tight and air change
in these buildings are prettybad, you know, how the schools
are pretty, everything's old asfar as the air exchange.
Tim Reynolds (27:42):
Well, and I think that's something that goals are
going to need to reassurestudents that they've taken
things into account. Even if youthink about things in your
school, like you're walking downthe hallway, passing people all
of the time. How do you how doyou social distance in in areas
like that? How do you do it incollaboration areas? As one of
(28:05):
my professor friends asked meyesterday, how do you do that in
public restrooms? You know, isthere going to be a monitor that
says, no more than two people inthe restroom at one time? I
think it's going to be difficultto police this.
Megan Brock (28:22):
So what are your concerns about your career after
school? Do you feel prepared?
What are your questions?
Anna Stafford (28:31):
I definitely feel like my I've kind of just put
off just thinking about thefuture in general. Like, I feel
like that's what this has done.
To me. It's just, I feel likeI'm just kind of at a
standstill, and I'm stillthinking about what I would like
to do in the future. But it'shard to even think about that
when I don't even know what youknow, August and September is
(28:54):
gonna look like and what like,am I going to be able to
graduate? Are things going to beso different than I totally have
to alter my academic progress?
So I definitely like I'm stillthinking about my future career,
but it's also just kind of hardto even fathom what it's going
to be like, because I don't wantto like get my hopes up and have
(29:16):
all these expectations and thenbe really let down. So it's
tricky.
Nadia Laytimi (29:22):
The advice I've been hearing a friend like I've
been listening to a lot of NPRthey've got like Coronavirus
Daily and like all their likedaily things. So I just kind of
been listening to that just tokeep like a factual information
news source in my day to daylife. And that's been really
helpful, just kind of knowingwhat's going on that way. But
(29:45):
um, I've I've heard a lot oftalks about people who are going
like in their freshman year areconsidering taking gap years and
taking a lot of Gen Ed's throughJuCo. So I think that's going to
be a large transition is morecommunity college courses, and
especially when you'reconsidering just taking the
(30:07):
class online, like there's your,you're comparing university
classes to community colleges,and there's quite a large
difference in the amount thatthey cost. So I think you're
gonna see a lot more peoplegoing to community colleges just
to get their credits. In themeantime, during this all.
Hassan Haltam (30:28):
It's, that's, I've been thinking about the
same thing quite a bit. Again, Ifeel very fortunate that I have
position with a firm, which, youknow, it's become like a family,
you know, in student life. So Ifeel fortunate from that aspect,
but I'm thinking of studentsthat have no experience, you
know, so, you interview on, youknow, platform, like what we're
(30:50):
doing here. Um, you know, youget the idea. So, I mean, you
have this interview, and you getthe job, and then how does it go
from there, you know, you end upbeing an intern in your living
room, or how does that work, youknow.
So as far as like gettingemployed, I think a lot of this,
because globalization has beensomething that's kind of led up
to this, too. So now, Tim couldjust as easily hire an intern in
(31:12):
South Korea as he could at UTArlington, you know, to work in
science and tech. It's anoption, because everything's
pretty much online now. versusyou know, face to face. So you
don't even need your interns oryour employees to be in the
space with you, since that's noteven an option. So I think this
whole thing was globalization.
And outsourcing is gonna blow upeven more, maybe not with our
(31:32):
company, but with mostcompanies. So that's, I think
that should be a concern forstudents. So I think everybody
just has to stand out even more.
So they really have to go thatextra mile, their portfolio has
to be better than everybodyelse, they have to communicate
better than everyone else. Ithink it's more competitive than
it's ever been.
Tim Reynolds (31:53):
So you feel like, there's more pressure on you
because of this.
Hassan Haltam (31:58):
I think there should be, at least that's how
people should be looking at it.
I'm not a pessimist. But I'm arealist. You know, I mean, just
like we're having thisconversation, and every
conversation, since this thingstarted has been, you know, on
Zoom, or Teams, or whatever.
Well, you can do that withsomebody in Mexico, or Chile, or
Jordan, or Finland, or whatever,you know, so I think things will
change. And there's reallynothing keeping us from doing
(32:20):
that anyway, because design isdesign. This doesn't work in the
culinary field, you know, has tobe still somebody physically,
you know, cooking up the food.
But in architecture, especially,I think, maybe it's because I
was over there for a few years.
And now I'm here, I really don'tsee a difference. I actually sat
in all the final projects for mycolleagues in Finland, because I
missed the year because Itransferred over so they just
(32:41):
graduated all of them with theirundergrad. So I sat in on the
Zoom meeting, it was like, 3am,you know, and I would like,
excuse myself, when it was whenI couldn't do it anymore at
like, 4am. You know, this islike two weeks ago, but I still
sat in and watch them, you know,present their final project and,
you know, go on from there. So Ithink it's definitely going to
(33:02):
be challenging to find work, aparticular area oriented job
question, you're asking, again,more competition than before.
Ashleigh Beane (33:12):
As far as the restaurant industry goes, it's,
it's a little harder to makechanges around stuff like this,
just because, I mean, like hepointed out, you still have to
have people there to cook thefood. And that's usually a team
effort. So you're pretty muchalways going to be with people
cooking at some point. Um, therehave been a lot of nice changes,
(33:32):
I mean, like, things likeGrubHub, exist, and DoorDash. So
it is possible to have a placewhere you're not interacting
with the customer face to faceas much. But there's only so
many changes they can reallymake as far as kitchens go, and
the physical restaurant goes,That doesn't include like adding
a drive thru, or getting rid ofthe dining space and making it
(33:53):
just a pickup location. There.
It's a little harder to workaround that in this industry.
And honestly, I'm actually kindof afraid that like people just
aren't going to want to go outeat as much. And it might
diminish a little bit of therestaurant industry.
Tim Reynolds (34:10):
So have they actively taken a part of your
curriculum and said, hey, we wereally need to talk about the
hospitality and restaurantbusiness. What if this happens
again, is that really been a bigpart of the discussion this
semester?
Ashleigh Beane (34:30):
Some of the teachers have. I took a class
where you were supposed todesign your own restaurant and
bar and he started asking usquestions while we were working
on our final project. How wouldyou work around something like
this if your restaurant had toclose down, and you need to
figure out how to keep going ina way where you can continue to
serve everybody without themphysically being there? How
would you do it? So we were allsort of expected to work around
(34:52):
this.
Tim Reynolds (34:53):
Hassan, what about you? Have you guys talked I
mean, you know how this is, thisis going to impact In the
architectural and designcommunity, have you talked about
it actively in the classes abouthow this is going to impact the
way you practice?
Hassan Haltam (35:10):
No, we haven't.
And it really surprised me, Iwas expecting that the
professor's really, you know, bethinking outside the box. But I
think everybody was kind ofscrambling just to get through
the semester. And perceivingnext semester, in the fall, it's
summer, but definitely in thefall, I think it's definitely
going to be a discussion.
Megan Brock (35:28):
So on one hand, Hassan, like you mentioned,
maybe this creates a morecompetitive environment
professionally, but maybe italso creates an environment
where we need to connect witheach other and really remember
that your experience is one ofmany. So for the students that
hear this, what do you want themto know? What is your message?
Ashleigh Beane (35:50):
Don't panic, I mean, the changes that are going
to need to happen to make thisall continue to go forward are
going to happen, and we'llfigure it out as we get there.
Hassan Haltam (36:01):
And I think things always have a way of
working themselves out. Youknow, I've been walking the
line, just for years trying toget through architecture school,
just because it's been a dreamof mine for a long time. And you
know, I have no regrets otherthan not doing this earlier. So
I think everything always worksout in the end. So you know,
this too shall pass. That'sprobably the biggest, biggest
(36:23):
word of advice for everyone, youknow, this too shall pass.
Anna Stafford (36:28):
Yeah, I would say a positive or just something
that I feel like, I want otherstudents to know is that if
you're feeling unmotivated, orif you feel really confused, and
you don't feel like you, you'reyou're putting your future on
hold, or you just, you feeldiscomforted, it's, it's very
normal, I feel like I'm goingthrough it. And I know a lot of
(36:50):
other people are going throughit. And this is a first time
thing for pretty much everyoneon the planet right now. So
we're all just have to take itone day at a time. And
hopefully, we can, you know, getto a place where if this does
have to be the new normal, wecan. It can feel a lot more
(37:10):
comfortable for all of us, andwe can find success.
Tim Reynolds (37:14):
So let me ask you guys, this. Is a forum like this
have any value to you?
Ashleigh Beane (37:24):
Yeah, I think it actually helps with some of
this. I actually wasn't reallythinking very hard about until
you started asking questions.
And then it just kind of gave mea new perspective. I guess, when
I got to think about it a littlebit more.
Tim Reynolds (37:38):
I'm wondering if you'd be willing to talk to us
again in the future?
Ashleigh Beane (37:42):
I would.
Hassan Haltam (37:43):
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely. I'd be interested.
Because I mean, this is all thisis all irrelevant stuff. You
know, and we're still figuringthat out. So none of us have the
answers, you know, but together,we could kind of get closer.
Megan Brock (37:55):
Hassan is right.
While we don't have all theanswers, talking about it is the
first step to moving forward.
Thank you to Hassan, Nadia,Ashleigh, and Anna, for joining
us today on this episode ofTreanorHL Talks.
What do you think? How can weassure students will succeed
during this global shift? Andhow do we prepare them for a
world that will look differentafter graduation? How do we also
(38:17):
help them grow as individualsoutside the virtual or physical
classroom? On our next episode,I will catch up with Tim and
Nadia to get their thoughts ontoday's discussion, as well as
ideas and suggestions for howuniversity clients can prepare
their facilities as campusesbegan to reopen.
TreanorHL is a nationalarchitecture, planning and
design firm located in theUnited States. The company holds
(38:40):
a firm belief and sharingresources and insights with
professionals clients andbuilding users to shape the
space we use to live and grow aspeople. For more information
visit trainer aol.com That'st-r-e-a-n-o-r-h-l.com
Welcome to TreanorHL Talks, a podcast about
architecture, planning, anddesign trends, as well as the
current events and noteworthytopics in the field. I'm your
host, Megan Brock, introducingtoday's topic, the impact of
COVID-19 on higher educationlearning. Since earlier this
year, higher educationinstitutions globally have made
the most dramatic shift inteaching methods in history. And
(00:28):
it was made almost overnight.
Those of you who have followednews surrounding the pandemic's
effect on higher education,already know the shift is
changing the operational andfinancial landscapes of many
colleges and universities. Butwhat does that mean for
students? What about the classof 2020? We wanted to know what
it's like being a participant inthis learning shift, and what
(00:48):
students really need and wantmoving forward. In that spirit,
we invited four students fromvarious universities to share
their thoughts with us. Joiningme today are Hassan and Nadia,
who are interns in the studentlife studio at TreanorHL, as
well as Ashleigh and Anna, whoare also current students.
Joining me from TreanorHL is TimReynolds and Nadia Zhiri. Tim
(01:09):
and Nadia help colleges designspaces that help students live,
learn and grow as they preparethemselves for professional
careers. So thank you all forjoining me today, virtually.
Nadia, I will go ahead and turnit over to you.
Nadia Zhiri (01:27):
Well, thanks, Megan. I'm Nadia Zhiri, I'm a
principal at TreanorHL and I amour student life studio leader
within Higher Ed. My name is TimReynolds. I'm the principal in
our science and technology grouphere at TreanorHL. Tell us a
little bit about yourself andwhat you're involved in on
(01:49):
campus, what your majors areanything that might be of
interest to us.
Anna Stafford (01:54):
So my name is Anna Stafford. I am at this
point, technically a senior atKU. I'm hoping to graduate at
the end of December. I'm ahistory major. And as far as
what I do on campus, I do a lotof archival work, I was doing a
before the whole COVID-19 thinghappened. I was doing a sort of
history internship working a lotat the Spencer archive, and we
(02:18):
spend a lot of time at thelibraries and things of that
sort. But yeah.
Nadia Laytimi (02:24):
My name is Nadia Laytimi. I'm a I'm going into my
fifth year and five yearaccelerated master's program at
KU. I am a part of Gamma PhiBeta Sorority. And that's
honestly about all I have timewith my internship and school
(02:45):
and trying to say caught up ineverything.
Ashleigh Beane (02:49):
I am Ashleigh, I go to Butler Community College
here in Wichita, and I'mstudying culinary arts and
restaurant management.
Hassan Haltam (02:59):
And my name is Hassan Haltam I'm architecture
student, there'll be a seniornext year doing my undergrad
there and University ofArlington here in Texas. And
it's been an interestingsemester.
Tim Reynolds (03:13):
I can't imagine what this is like for you guys
and how you've felt about it.
But let me ask you first, basedon what you've gone through, if
you could describe yourexperience relative to this
semester, in one word, or onephrase, what would it be?
Nadia Laytimi (03:31):
Mess. It's a mess. Politics, school, the
whole organization. I mean otherI really appreciate our weekly
emails from Treanor and the factthat we're so like involved in
keeping up to date witheverything. I really appreciate
that because I feel like we'renot getting much from the
university and like, and aspectsof like a weekly update. Like
(03:55):
hey, guys, like it's not aspersonal as I feel like our work
messages have been and I thinkhaving even like working still
has made this feel a little bitmore normal.
Anna Stafford (04:09):
I think my word would be like disconnect, like,
in every sense of the wordthere's people have problems
connecting physically onlinetrying everyone's trying to
figure out zoom, everyone'strying to, you know, navigate
this new way of learning butalso there's just a disconnect
from the university not being oncampus every day. There's a
(04:32):
disconnect, obviously,politically, it's being kind of
polarized and that's reallystrange. So there's just a lot
of disconnection with witheverything.
Ashleigh Beane (04:45):
Challenging, very challenging. My degree plan
is meant to be very hands-on,like we do events all year
round. We actually cook inclass, we're supposed to be able
to show step-by-step how we doeverything. And suddenly we
don't have a space where we canjust show our teacher this is
what we're doing along the way,we have to figure out how to
(05:06):
show it from home.
Hassan Haltam (05:08):
For me, that--e word I would think would be, you
know, it's hard to put it in aword, but definitely
challenging. Yeah, I agree withthat.
Tim Reynolds (05:17):
So, Ashleigh, when you say challenging, tell me
what you what's been the mostchallenging part for you?
Ashleigh Beane (05:24):
I've been working three jobs at a time
pretty much for the past twoyears along with being a
student. So going from having aplace to constantly be and then
going to school and talking tomy teachers and talking to other
students. And then going back toone of those three places, I
always have to be to being in myhouse, staring at the same thing
(05:44):
all the time with my co workers,being my cats is a little bit
weird, and stressful.
Tim Reynolds (05:51):
Hassan, tell me what you mean by the word,
challenging?
Hassan Haltam (05:55):
But I think it's been challenging for everyone.
For, for me, personally, eversince I started architecture
program, I transferred fromFinland. I was there for two
years. And then I transferredhere and, you know, I've I
started my undergrad when I wasin my late 30s. So I'm not your
traditional student. And I'vedone a lot of things in business
(06:15):
in the past. So it was shockingto me that you can't have a
pin-up on a PowerPoint. I didn'tget it, you know, so when I was
talking to my professors inFinland, I was like, wait, guys,
why don't we just do this on theprojector? It's gonna be
awesome. You know, I got allthese visuals and stuff. And
they were saying, well, no,that's not how we do it, you
know. So now, it's beenchallenging, and everybody had
to shift gears.
But it's also been a blessing ina way, because you can do a lot
(06:37):
of effects and things like that,when you're showing somebody
your screen. The challenge hasbeen for the communication, and
like what Ashleigh was saying, Imean, it's really hard for the
professor to be like, no, no,no, that's too much salt, or no,
no, no, you shouldn't put thatbuilding here, that should be
over here. Like our last projectwas a master plan in Dallas. So
it was, it was a huge, hugescope. So the challenge was
(07:00):
definitely that the professorwasn't able to, you know, put
some trace paper over mydrawings and fix what I messed
up so royally, you know, as a,as a student.
Nadia Zhiri (07:11):
You know, it's it's an assumption that what we're
experiencing now is going tobecome our new normal, somehow,
things have changed so much. Andwe are all feeling those
changes. So let's have aconversation about what this
learning experience has been,and what you think it's going to
(07:33):
evolve into, and maybe some prosand cons of what this experience
is bringing?
Anna Stafford (07:40):
Sure, yeah, I would say that, overall, I would
say that I had a really positiveexperience. Obviously, it wasn't
ideal. A lot of my classes,especially in the history
department rely on discussion inclass where you're interacting
with your peers and yourinstructors. So it was it was
(08:01):
very difficult to sort of gofrom that to most days, just not
even having that kind ofdiscourse with anyone. Besides,
one of my classes would holdlike zoom lectures, twice a
week, everyone else just kind ofwas like, uh, here's what you
need to do get in touch with usif you have any other
information, like if you needany other information. And that
(08:24):
was I was able to handle thatpretty well. But so it was
positive in the sense that thetransition was pretty smooth.
But the I guess one con of itwas that you you miss that
interaction that is so helpfulin learning the material.
Nadia Laytimi (08:41):
Yeah, I would have to say the same thing. It's
a lot of like the accountabilityof being in class is lost, just
having those conversations,especially with my my studio
class, it's a six credit class,like we really rely on feedback
from our peers and ourprofessor. So it was just hard
(09:01):
having a review session that wason Zoom. So it wasn't
necessarily like the feedback wewould have hoped for, for a
final project. But I think wedid a really good job actually
in handling in my studio. We hadlike this really big zoom
session with like 40participants and we had, like 20
(09:22):
different professors or notprofessors, but associate
professors like people whoworked at different firms around
the US. They were able to callin, so we were able to actually
get feedback from architects. SoI think that was a cool way of
handling the transition andmaybe can be used again.
Nadia Zhiri (09:43):
How did that work exactly? I mean, what that it
was 40 people and they were allon and how was it a cool
experience?
Nadia Laytimi (09:52):
With that session, he did these like
breakout sessions where we wouldget different reviewers and we
would all reconvene back to ourzoom session. And then we hop
out in these breakout sessionswith like two reviewers. And we
got, I got to meet with fourreviewers. And that was more
than I had expected to.
Tim Reynolds (10:11):
How important is the face-to-face interaction
that you have with your studentpeers to you relative to your
college experience?
Ashleigh Beane (10:23):
Well, in restaurant management and
culinary, I kind of feel likeit, it can be a hugely
beneficial thing for us. We allhave different ideas of how
restaurants should be run, howkitchens should be run, we all
share ideas for recipes. So wekind of build off of each other,
and having the opportunity tointeract with each other really
helps with that. But at the sametime, there's other ways to do
(10:45):
that, that don't involvephysically being in front of
each other. We all have socialmedia, so we could just as
easily get on a Zoom call once aweek and talk about what we
thought of the class andeverything and how we feel about
the recipes, what we wouldimprove on and everything. It
doesn't require us to be in thesame room.
Hassan Haltam (11:03):
Yeah, and it's funny, Ashleigh, you should
mention social media. Becauseimagine if this happened 15
years ago, pre-Facebook orpre-WhatsApp, or pre-anything or
pre-Zoom are all the I know, wejust be so out in the middle of
the lake, just we'd all be lost.
Yeah. So it's interesting howthese things have kind of
progressed to the point where weare now and now everything kind
of kicked into high gear what weneed, we need all this tech, you
(11:25):
know, to communicate, but yeah,I agree with everything Ashleigh
said, definitely. I mean, weit's a very collaborative
effort.
Nadia Laytimi (11:34):
Yeah, all of we, I feel like, since we've been
through so many years, we havelike a group of just
architecture friends, we'vetexted group message and just
stay like up to date with eachother and just checking in
constantly, like, how are youguys doing? Like, we know, this
is weird, like, don't, don'tmake it feel normal, like, you
know, so we, I feel like, it'snice to have like a space where
(11:57):
you can talk freely to your,like classmates and like, let
them know, like, Hey, I'm goingthrough the same thing to like,
it's not just you like thingsare going to be okay. You know,
just encouragement.
Anna Stafford (12:11):
Yeah, keeping, keeping in touch with like,
friends has been difficult, likea lot of my friends that I had
here, just went back home. Solike, be with their parents. And
so it's, it's hard to kind ofstay in touch, but we've been
trying and, but also there'slike, even just on social media,
(12:34):
keeping in touch with otherclassmates, and seeing that
everyone's kind of going throughthe same thing is really
helpful. And it keeps it keepsyou motivated, you know, the
least bit that you can, justbecause you can see that
everyone else is also goingthrough it and you're not alone
and struggling to to keep keepthe faith.
Nadia Zhiri (12:54):
There's a certain feel that you must have had,
being a student and doing thingson campus. How was that changing
for you? And is it somethingthat you miss at all?
Nadia Laytimi (13:07):
Yeah, um, obviously, I miss my friends.
Everything's been really hard.
They had to, like move everyoneout of our house. And everyone,
so everyone's home, basically.
It's, it's a weird transition.
And especially since like, Ihave a younger sister who's
going into her freshman year atK State, I'm kind of thinking
(13:28):
about her and like worried abouther, like, she's not going to
have the same opportunity I hadand coming to school and like,
kind of being set loose, like inmaking all these new friends.
And I'm like, is she even goingto be able to go on to campus
and kind of get that sameopportunity, and, probably not
the way that we're handlingthings right now in
(13:49):
universities. So it's just, itworries me.
Anna Stafford (13:56):
Yeah, I definitely feel a disconnect,
not being on campus every day. Ifeel like being on campus and
seeing other students just goingthrough the same thing that
you're going through. And thenlike I mentioned before, having
class discussions and seeinginstructors, and just having
spaces where you can sit and dohomework for a moment you know,
(14:19):
it, it makes it feel more realand so when you are in your
apartment trying to you know, dothe same schoolwork it it
doesn't feel as meaningful, ifthat makes sense and it feels a
lot less I just feel like I saidvery disconnected and
unmotivated not being on campusaround everyone.
Nadia Laytimi (14:42):
I think the burnout is a lot more intense to
just since you're trying to doeverything as efficiently as you
were when you were in person athome now and finding like okay,
where are these spaces in thesezones I can make in my space
now. and it's been interesting.
Anna Stafford (15:03):
It's hard to find the right spot to work when
you're in the same spot everyday. And if this were to
continue, I would try to, youknow, set up more of a space for
me to like really sit and do mywork that feels a bit more
official and comfortable. Soyeah, I would try to get like,
(15:24):
more more materials to make itfeel a bit different than what
it is now. Because right now,it's very casual workspace.
Hassan Haltam (15:33):
I've always tried to get groups together and try
to do competitions and thingslike that in university with
colleagues and peers and stuff,and that's kind of challenging
now, but at the same time, wehave more downtime, so maybe
not. But I think it's harder tobreak the ice, and really get to
know somebody, you know, the waywe're doing it now. But I think
there needs to be moreconsistency, because this is
(15:55):
something odd, every professorused a different platform.
Right? Which was just there wasso inconsistent, I would lose,
I'll be like, okay, Allen'sclass that Zoom or is that
Teams, which one is that? And,you know, it's like you're
always trying to, like pedalback. And okay, which platform
is this class in? So I think theuniversities especially should
have a consistency.
Ashleigh Beane (16:16):
Yeah, that's what we did, too. We were all
supposed to use our onlineplatform, it was Canvas, but
every teacher used itdifferently. And it was so hard
to keep up with who was doingwhat, exactly.
Tim Reynolds (16:29):
From a technology standpoint, did your
institutions help out in any wayto get faster internet
connections at home or where youlive? Did they offer you laptops
if you didn't have one? Wasthere any assistance that you
were getting relative totechnology? Or were you on your
own?
Ashleigh Beane (16:49):
The only assistance that Butler offered
was, they made it so that youcould access Zoom for free,
there was a limit on it beforewhere if, for more than 45
minutes, it would cut you off ifyou weren't paying for it. And
they made it so that if youaccessed it through the Butler
website, it was free. But otherthan that, I think the
expectation was that you alreadyhad your camera or your laptop
(17:10):
or whatever you needed.
Nadia Laytimi (17:14):
I at the beginning of all this, I
actually had to buy like higherinternet speed just because I
wasn't able to do everythingthat I was meant to do at home.
So that was kind of one of thetrials and tribulations just
right early on. I now looking atit even during those review
sessions back to like our finalreviews we had and I we had
(17:38):
professors like casuallymentioning how they're going to
be teaching the second year ofstudent studios online and how
this is preparing them right nowfor that. And there's not a lot
of transparency and like lettingstudents know kind of like,
okay, what what's going on? Andlike how can we better prepare?
Because I feel like it's justmentioned, like, I don't know, I
(18:00):
feel like there could be moretransparency from the university
and like, enabling us to be moreprepared, especially if this is
how it's going to be again inthe fall.
Anna Stafford (18:11):
Yeah, I would agree with the transparency
aspect of it, I definitely feellike my professors did the best
that they could, such as shortnotice only having a couple of
weeks to rework, you know, thesyllabus and get everyone like
at a scheduled time for peopleto meet if we were meeting
during zoom. So I feel like itwent okay for the amount of time
(18:35):
that they had. And I think whenthe university does make a
decision about the fallsemester, hopefully, over the
summer, they'll have more timeto kind of tweak the problems
that people were having and makeit a little bit easier for the
majority of the students to havebetter success with the whole
(18:58):
online learning because I feellike I did alright, personally.
But I could definitely tell thatin some of my classes, there
were other people who werestruggling not meeting or maybe
had a harder time have makingconnections just learning
online.
Nadia Laytimi (19:13):
Yeah, definitely.
I even had in the beginning oneof my one of my good friends in
my studio class, he would haveto come over like the first
couple weeks of school becausehe just didn't have Wi-Fi
working in his apartment. So hewould come over and we would do
our Zoom sessions and then hehad to buy some whatever Midco,
you know, just to make thingseasier for him. But then at that
(19:35):
point, it's also his computer'snot working like up to its best,
you know?
Hassan Haltam (19:43):
Yeah, at Arlington they they were pretty
supportive. I think that youneed good equipment to do CAD
and Rhino and whatever else youneed in architecture school, so
they were actually prettysupportive. They did. They did
supply quite a bit of equipmentI think we're on loan and things
like that. And there was accessto the computer labs even during
(20:06):
that day or the pandemic becauseof things like LUMION just for
rendering and stuff for finalprojects. I don't know how they
policed it, I was fortunatebecause of, you know, my place
at Treanor, I, you know, I'vegot some, some some nice
equipment, as far as you know,my work laptop and one of the
computers in Lawrence therewhere you are Tim has LUMION,
which is a really good renderingsoftware, and I was able to
(20:27):
remote into that. So it was ablessing to be, you know, part
of the TreanorHL team duringthis because I had a lot of what
I needed. But yeah, the schooldid okay, I guess. You know, a
lot of people on the calls, andon the sort of the meetings and
studio, you could tell some ofthem were working off the phone
and stuff like that. So I mean,it was pretty limited, but they
(20:49):
did offer it, it could be thatthe students just didn't take
them up on the offer.
Tim Reynolds (20:54):
So tell me about, have your institutions made
plans for the fall semester? Andif they have, what are they?
Ashleigh Beane (21:03):
Butler's current plan is to start classes up
again, as usual, like on campusfor the fall, they're actually
doing a lot of stuff right now,where if you take six credit
hours during the summer, they'llgive you three free credit hours
in the fall. So they're tryingto encourage us to get as much
of it as we can done the summerto minimize how much time we
have to spend there during thefall.
Hassan Haltam (21:24):
Yeah, and with Arlington there, they're also
saying they're treatingeverything pretty normally,
they're not really giving us aPlan B at all, which is odd,
because I really doubt that it'sgoing to be on campus. But
everything, the description ofthe classes, everything is you
know, face-to-face, and theygive you a room number and all
that stuff. But I don't know,I'll believe it when I see it.
Nadia Laytimi (21:42):
I think it's especially to do with the fact I
think schools are still kind ofgiving hope that we're going to
be in-person, but then you talkto professor's and then you hear
kind of a different story. And Ithink there's a lot of confusion
and a lot of people aren'tplanning too far ahead. I don't
know. I talked to the Deanactually during the first week
(22:05):
of quarantines, and he wasletting me know about how the
fact like we can't have studentsback on in the fall without like
having a second wave inSeptember. And then I thought,
right, why would we even invitestudents back on campus? So I'm
like, are you telling me we'renot on campus in the fall? Like,
are we going to come here for amonth in person and do like
(22:27):
weird hybrid? Like, like, how isthat going to work? And
especially with housing, I'mtrying to figure out and I had a
lot more questions, but Iobviously didn't want to
overwhelm him because he'sdealing with tons, I'm sure
already. And but if I had askedhim for something, I think it
would be how are we going to,how are we going to help the
kids who don't have thetechnology to be able to work
(22:49):
the software's that we needefficiently? Because I know one
of my biggest issues is like, mycomputer's really slow, like my
laptop is really slow. And so Istruggle with finishing work
efficiently sometimes. So I'mwondering, what about the people
who don't have even a laptop whohave to go into the bridge lab.
(23:09):
So that's in person stuff theyhave to deal with.
Anna Stafford (23:13):
I haven't heard anything about housing
specifically, I think the lastthing I saw was similar to
Nadia, which was just like,they're still tentatively
planning for like, for us to beback on campus in the fall. But
then, just recently, I saw thatWichita State was there doing
hybrid slash online. That wasthe last thing I saw from them.
(23:35):
So that sort of made me questionlike, I shouldn't get my hopes
up too high. Because other youknow, comparable universities
are doing things differently. Soyeah, I think it right now it's
just very up in the air.
Tim Reynolds (23:51):
So none have none of them talk to you about social
distancing? And when you getback on campus, have they talked
to you about masks, have theytalked to you about we're
limiting the number of studentsin a class so you can maintain
social distancing? Any anyinformation?
Ashleigh Beane (24:08):
Not yet.
Hassan Haltam (24:11):
Which is surprising, really.
Megan Brock (24:14):
Well, what are you comfortable with? What types of
protocols need to be in placebefore you feel safe returning
to campus?
Nadia Laytimi (24:22):
I think, if KU and Lawrence more specifically
had a comprehensive way oftesting and retesting and
tracking the virus and our localtown then I would be more like
if we could like live see, like,who has this virus on campus?
Like are we in danger oftransferring in I just I don't
(24:45):
know if we'll get there. But Ithink that would make me feel
most comfortable. I know thatthere hasn't really been a
comprehensive way of trackingthe virus in the US and that's a
little scary, especially sincewe don't know how like who and
how many people have it. So Idon't think I would be
comfortable with being back oncampus with the amount of people
(25:07):
that usually are on campus untilwe have something like that.
Anna Stafford (25:13):
Yeah, I agree, I think there would be need to be
like, a more cohesive way ofletting us know how we can be
safe around other people,testing, and also just holding
people accountable for beinghygienic, which I have no clue
how they would even do that. Butit would definitely have to be
(25:36):
very well thought out andorganized. And I would have to
feel very secure with whateverthe plan was before I would feel
comfortable being on campus. Butas far as like what that looks
like, it's really hard to saybecause I don't know, within the
sheer number of people, it'd behard to really keep everyone on
the same page. Keep keep thewhole campus clean.
Tim Reynolds (25:59):
So tell me, given the fact that your institutions
are saying they're gonna go backon campus, how do you feel about
that? Are you worried about it?
Are you confident that yourinstitutions are going to take
the steps necessary to keep yousafe?
Ashleigh Beane (26:17):
I think that my, my instructors personally are
going to try to. And I do thinkthat the Dean of our school
cares. But at the same time, Idon't think that it's the best
idea, especially going into thewinter season, when all of this
is more likely to spike again.
And everything I just, itdoesn't seem like a smart idea
to start going back so soon.
Hassan Haltam (26:40):
It's almost shocking to me that they would,
even the lack of lack of clarityabout what the plans are, is
surprising. So I mean, I knowI'm sure they would love to keep
it as safe as they can, but howmuch is really in anyone's
control? You know, so I mean,you know, short of building
cubes for everyone to be in, andthen even that has weird
implications. You know, it'sjust, I can't foresee this thing
(27:04):
is really being a smart move. Asfar as going back in the fall.
You know, and especially if itwas a successful semester, I
really don't know how theresults were, you know,
personally, I had, we werepretty far along when we
started. So we, it was a prettyquick and easy wrap up for me. I
mean, there was the challenges,obviously. But, you know, I
think we could probably keepdoing this until we have some
(27:26):
closure, but I can't, I can'tsee why it would be wise to do
it on, you know, face-to-face.
Because you know, these roomsare pretty tight and air change
in these buildings are prettybad, you know, how the schools
are pretty, everything's old asfar as the air exchange.
Tim Reynolds (27:42):
Well, and I think that's something that goals are
going to need to reassurestudents that they've taken
things into account. Even if youthink about things in your
school, like you're walking downthe hallway, passing people all
of the time. How do you how doyou social distance in in areas
like that? How do you do it incollaboration areas? As one of
(28:05):
my professor friends asked meyesterday, how do you do that in
public restrooms? You know, isthere going to be a monitor that
says, no more than two people inthe restroom at one time? I
think it's going to be difficultto police this.
Megan Brock (28:22):
So what are your concerns about your career after
school? Do you feel prepared?
What are your questions?
Anna Stafford (28:31):
I definitely feel like my I've kind of just put
off just thinking about thefuture in general. Like, I feel
like that's what this has done.
To me. It's just, I feel likeI'm just kind of at a
standstill, and I'm stillthinking about what I would like
to do in the future. But it'shard to even think about that
when I don't even know what youknow, August and September is
(28:54):
gonna look like and what like,am I going to be able to
graduate? Are things going to beso different than I totally have
to alter my academic progress?
So I definitely like I'm stillthinking about my future career,
but it's also just kind of hardto even fathom what it's going
to be like, because I don't wantto like get my hopes up and have
(29:16):
all these expectations and thenbe really let down. So it's
tricky.
Nadia Laytimi (29:22):
The advice I've been hearing a friend like I've
been listening to a lot of NPRthey've got like Coronavirus
Daily and like all their likedaily things. So I just kind of
been listening to that just tokeep like a factual information
news source in my day to daylife. And that's been really
helpful, just kind of knowingwhat's going on that way. But
(29:45):
um, I've I've heard a lot oftalks about people who are going
like in their freshman year areconsidering taking gap years and
taking a lot of Gen Ed's throughJuCo. So I think that's going to
be a large transition is morecommunity college courses, and
especially when you'reconsidering just taking the
(30:07):
class online, like there's your,you're comparing university
classes to community colleges,and there's quite a large
difference in the amount thatthey cost. So I think you're
gonna see a lot more peoplegoing to community colleges just
to get their credits. In themeantime, during this all.
Hassan Haltam (30:28):
It's, that's, I've been thinking about the
same thing quite a bit. Again, Ifeel very fortunate that I have
position with a firm, which, youknow, it's become like a family,
you know, in student life. So Ifeel fortunate from that aspect,
but I'm thinking of studentsthat have no experience, you
know, so, you interview on, youknow, platform, like what we're
(30:50):
doing here. Um, you know, youget the idea. So, I mean, you
have this interview, and you getthe job, and then how does it go
from there, you know, you end upbeing an intern in your living
room, or how does that work, youknow.
So as far as like gettingemployed, I think a lot of this,
because globalization has beensomething that's kind of led up
to this, too. So now, Tim couldjust as easily hire an intern in
(31:12):
South Korea as he could at UTArlington, you know, to work in
science and tech. It's anoption, because everything's
pretty much online now. versusyou know, face to face. So you
don't even need your interns oryour employees to be in the
space with you, since that's noteven an option. So I think this
whole thing was globalization.
And outsourcing is gonna blow upeven more, maybe not with our
(31:32):
company, but with mostcompanies. So that's, I think
that should be a concern forstudents. So I think everybody
just has to stand out even more.
So they really have to go thatextra mile, their portfolio has
to be better than everybodyelse, they have to communicate
better than everyone else. Ithink it's more competitive than
it's ever been.
Tim Reynolds (31:53):
So you feel like, there's more pressure on you
because of this.
Hassan Haltam (31:58):
I think there should be, at least that's how
people should be looking at it.
I'm not a pessimist. But I'm arealist. You know, I mean, just
like we're having thisconversation, and every
conversation, since this thingstarted has been, you know, on
Zoom, or Teams, or whatever.
Well, you can do that withsomebody in Mexico, or Chile, or
Jordan, or Finland, or whatever,you know, so I think things will
change. And there's reallynothing keeping us from doing
(32:20):
that anyway, because design isdesign. This doesn't work in the
culinary field, you know, has tobe still somebody physically,
you know, cooking up the food.
But in architecture, especially,I think, maybe it's because I
was over there for a few years.
And now I'm here, I really don'tsee a difference. I actually sat
in all the final projects for mycolleagues in Finland, because I
missed the year because Itransferred over so they just
(32:41):
graduated all of them with theirundergrad. So I sat in on the
Zoom meeting, it was like, 3am,you know, and I would like,
excuse myself, when it was whenI couldn't do it anymore at
like, 4am. You know, this islike two weeks ago, but I still
sat in and watch them, you know,present their final project and,
you know, go on from there. So Ithink it's definitely going to
(33:02):
be challenging to find work, aparticular area oriented job
question, you're asking, again,more competition than before.
Ashleigh Beane (33:12):
As far as the restaurant industry goes, it's,
it's a little harder to makechanges around stuff like this,
just because, I mean, like hepointed out, you still have to
have people there to cook thefood. And that's usually a team
effort. So you're pretty muchalways going to be with people
cooking at some point. Um, therehave been a lot of nice changes,
(33:32):
I mean, like, things likeGrubHub, exist, and DoorDash. So
it is possible to have a placewhere you're not interacting
with the customer face to faceas much. But there's only so
many changes they can reallymake as far as kitchens go, and
the physical restaurant goes,That doesn't include like adding
a drive thru, or getting rid ofthe dining space and making it
(33:53):
just a pickup location. There.
It's a little harder to workaround that in this industry.
And honestly, I'm actually kindof afraid that like people just
aren't going to want to go outeat as much. And it might
diminish a little bit of therestaurant industry.
Tim Reynolds (34:10):
So have they actively taken a part of your
curriculum and said, hey, we wereally need to talk about the
hospitality and restaurantbusiness. What if this happens
again, is that really been a bigpart of the discussion this
semester?
Ashleigh Beane (34:30):
Some of the teachers have. I took a class
where you were supposed todesign your own restaurant and
bar and he started asking usquestions while we were working
on our final project. How wouldyou work around something like
this if your restaurant had toclose down, and you need to
figure out how to keep going ina way where you can continue to
serve everybody without themphysically being there? How
would you do it? So we were allsort of expected to work around
(34:52):
this.
Tim Reynolds (34:53):
Hassan, what about you? Have you guys talked I
mean, you know how this is, thisis going to impact In the
architectural and designcommunity, have you talked about
it actively in the classes abouthow this is going to impact the
way you practice?
Hassan Haltam (35:10):
No, we haven't.
And it really surprised me, Iwas expecting that the
professor's really, you know, bethinking outside the box. But I
think everybody was kind ofscrambling just to get through
the semester. And perceivingnext semester, in the fall, it's
summer, but definitely in thefall, I think it's definitely
going to be a discussion.
Megan Brock (35:28):
So on one hand, Hassan, like you mentioned,
maybe this creates a morecompetitive environment
professionally, but maybe italso creates an environment
where we need to connect witheach other and really remember
that your experience is one ofmany. So for the students that
hear this, what do you want themto know? What is your message?
Ashleigh Beane (35:50):
Don't panic, I mean, the changes that are going
to need to happen to make thisall continue to go forward are
going to happen, and we'llfigure it out as we get there.
Hassan Haltam (36:01):
And I think things always have a way of
working themselves out. Youknow, I've been walking the
line, just for years trying toget through architecture school,
just because it's been a dreamof mine for a long time. And you
know, I have no regrets otherthan not doing this earlier. So
I think everything always worksout in the end. So you know,
this too shall pass. That'sprobably the biggest, biggest
(36:23):
word of advice for everyone, youknow, this too shall pass.
Anna Stafford (36:28):
Yeah, I would say a positive or just something
that I feel like, I want otherstudents to know is that if
you're feeling unmotivated, orif you feel really confused, and
you don't feel like you, you'reyou're putting your future on
hold, or you just, you feeldiscomforted, it's, it's very
normal, I feel like I'm goingthrough it. And I know a lot of
(36:50):
other people are going throughit. And this is a first time
thing for pretty much everyoneon the planet right now. So
we're all just have to take itone day at a time. And
hopefully, we can, you know, getto a place where if this does
have to be the new normal, wecan. It can feel a lot more
(37:10):
comfortable for all of us, andwe can find success.
Tim Reynolds (37:14):
So let me ask you guys, this. Is a forum like this
have any value to you?
Ashleigh Beane (37:24):
Yeah, I think it actually helps with some of
this. I actually wasn't reallythinking very hard about until
you started asking questions.
And then it just kind of gave mea new perspective. I guess, when
I got to think about it a littlebit more.
Tim Reynolds (37:38):
I'm wondering if you'd be willing to talk to us
again in the future?
Ashleigh Beane (37:42):
I would.
Hassan Haltam (37:43):
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely. I'd be interested.
Because I mean, this is all thisis all irrelevant stuff. You
know, and we're still figuringthat out. So none of us have the
answers, you know, but together,we could kind of get closer.
Megan Brock (37:55):
Hassan is right.
While we don't have all theanswers, talking about it is the
first step to moving forward.
Thank you to Hassan, Nadia,Ashleigh, and Anna, for joining
us today on this episode ofTreanorHL Talks.
What do you think? How can weassure students will succeed
during this global shift? Andhow do we prepare them for a
world that will look differentafter graduation? How do we also
(38:17):
help them grow as individualsoutside the virtual or physical
classroom? On our next episode,I will catch up with Tim and
Nadia to get their thoughts ontoday's discussion, as well as
ideas and suggestions for howuniversity clients can prepare
their facilities as campusesbegan to reopen.
TreanorHL is a nationalarchitecture, planning and
design firm located in theUnited States. The company holds
(38:40):
a firm belief and sharingresources and insights with
professionals clients andbuilding users to shape the
space we use to live and grow aspeople. For more information
visit trainer aol.com That'st-r-e-a-n-o-r-h-l.com
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