October 23, 2025 • 34 mins
What if trees could whisper secrets of the past? Join us as we venture into the eerie realm of haunted trees and ghostly tales in our special episode of spooky trees. As the season of Samhain approaches and the veil between the living and the dead grows thin, we share chilling stories from Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn to the Mabira Forest of Uganda to Salem, Massachusetts.
Join our guest storytellers Allison Meier, Emerald Forcier, Cheryl Mullings and Charles Linshaw around the fire as we share these macabre tales and embrace the spirit of the season. Listen now, if you dare...
This week’s episode was recorded in Massachusetts on the native lands of the Wabanaki Confederacy, Pennacook, Massa-adchu-es-et (Massachusett), and Pawtucket people, as well as in New York on the land of the Lenapee tribes, and in Wisconsin on the lands of the Ho-chunk, Potawatomi and Menomonee people, and in Maine on the lands of the Pernobscott tribes. Special thanks to the Western Avenue Lofts and Studios for all their support.
Tree Speech is produced and co-written by Dori Robinson and Jonathan Zautner.
Learn more about the podcast at: www.treespeechpodcast.com, and IG: treespeechpodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Imagine the scariest story you've ever heard.
Where did it take place? In seasons past, we've told
tales from the shadow depths of Germany's Black Forest to the
fairy trees of Ireland to the whispering kodama spirits of
Japan. But what if the most haunted
(00:25):
things aren't far away at all? What if they're right in your
own backyard? Maybe it's that old oak outside
your window, the one that creakswhen the wind blows.
Maybe it's just the breeze. Or maybe it's trying to tell you
something. Welcome to Tree Speech.
(00:46):
I'm Jonathan Zoutner, and tonight we invite you to listen
closely. It's our annual celebration of
spooky trees, a night of eerie legends, spectral woods and
ghostly Groves where every rustling leaf might carry a
story centuries old. Tonight we share both new
(01:09):
stories and the ones that have become tradition.
So gather close if you dare, because the trees remember.
(01:51):
Oh, good. You made it.
I didn't expect this storm, did you?
I'm so glad you're here. You're soaked.
Poor thing. Come in.
Come in. What a journey you must have
taken. I'll build us a fire so we can
warm up together. And I can tell you a few stories
(02:11):
to take your mind off the cold and the storm.
There we go. For those who don't know me, my
name is Gory Robinson and I'll be your host for this special
night. What a wonderful tradition, a
special way to mark the season of Sawan.
(02:33):
The thinning of the veil, the bleeding of the boundaries
between summer and winter, the dead and the living, what has
departed and what is yet to come.
On this special night of Halloween, we always share
stories about trees that spookedour souls.
Ah, but dear friends, there are so many more trees with secrets
(02:56):
to share. Are you brave enough to hear
their dark tales? Good.
Well then, let's get started. But don't say I didn't warn you.
Our first story comes from someone who knows her way around
a cemetery. Author and tour guide Alison
(03:19):
Meyer, who tells US Tree Legendsshe shares with those who dare
take her tour through Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn, NY.
I've been researching and writing about cemeteries and
death related things for years now and also leading cemetery
(03:41):
tours mainly at Greenwood Cemetery and I try to always
work in some tree lore when I dothose tours because I think our
burial spaces have a lot of connections to trees.
In terms of folklore, one of theobvious ones are yew trees which
(04:01):
have a lot of lore in the UK. Like there's very ancient yew
trees and old burial grounds that are set to have been
planted by the Druids and that there would tuck you branches
into coffins and things like that.
One of the stories that I do tell on these tours, because
Greenwood Cemetery is this really evocative tree alley of
(04:25):
these weeping Mulberry trees right near its huge Gothic arch.
And I try to mention this ancient Greek myth about why the
Mulberry tree has red berries and some of them are white and
turn red. And the tale goes back in
ancient Babylon. And this is a story that's like
(04:47):
best known from Ovid, the poem Metamorphosis.
There were basically the ancientGreek version of Romeo and
Juliet, or really they preceded them, Pyramus and Thisbee.
And like Romeo and Juliet, they were from these separate
families that had a rivalry. So their parents were not into
their union. And so instead they would
(05:09):
communicate through this crack in a wall between their two
houses and they would plan to meet under a Mulberry tree in
person. And then there was this night
where they're going to meet there.
And 1st the species shows up, but the lioness comes as well,
and she runs away but leaves hercloak there.
And so when Pyramus comes, he finds this cloak just left
(05:31):
behind. He thinks that she has been
killed by the lioness. And so he kills himself, and his
blood stains all the Mulberry fruits on the trees, turning
those white berries red. So when Thyssbee comes back, she
sees Pyramus has killed himself and much, you know, like Romeo
(05:52):
and Juliet, she kills herself aswell.
And so in honor of their forbidden love, said that the
gods permanently changed the colors of the Mulberry fruits
from white to red. So I tell that story on the
cemetery tours because there's alot of interesting myth and lore
(06:16):
that's come through trees and especially in places of death.
It's kind of interesting to think about how actual blood
spilled was interpreted in this way in the Mulberry trees.
What is believed to be Manhattan's oldest tree is known
as the Hangman's Elm, and that'sin Washington Square Park.
(06:38):
It's this super old gnarled English Elm, like all Elms, has
those branches that kind of crooked.
All the the creepy angle so it looks very spooky.
Does have this myth that people were hanged from it at some
point, particularly during the American Revolution.
(06:58):
However it does seem to manly belegend.
There was a gallows near there at some point where it's known
at least one person was hanged. I believe it's a woman who
committed arson, but no one is recorded hanged from that tree.
I think, though, it just looks like the kind of tree that
(07:19):
somebody would have been hangingfrom and it became cursed or
something, because it does standout from all the smaller trees
around it. But to bring it to cemeteries,
what I think is really interesting about it is
Washington Square Park actually was a Potter's field and there
are definitely still thousands of bodies beneath the earth,
like below the playgrounds, below the fountain.
(07:40):
They actually when they were redoing the fountain not too
long ago, they had to redesign it so it would be shallower, so
it would just rest above the skeletons rather than disturbing
them. So they were definitely still
there. But it's kind of this invisible
graveyard now. Most of the internments, I
believe, are in the 18th into the 19th century, but people are
(08:03):
still there. And they actually reinterred
people in the garden not too long ago who were disturbed by
construction. And some of the crew from
Greenwood Cemetery came and did that.
And now there's a plaque in the ground basically saying this is
a park, but it's also a cemetery.
So to bring it back to the tree,while the hangman's Elm, I do
(08:24):
not think actually it has much of A hanging past, I do feel
like it's the one kind of like old spectre of the past that
remains a Washington Square parkto remind you just how long
people have been transforming this ground.
And I don't know when the hanging urban legends started,
(08:44):
but it does hint towards this macabre history Washington
Square Park that I think goes overlooked.
From the cemetery to the crime scene, Jonathan has a delicious
tale based on truth and a pear tree Who witnessed it all?
(09:08):
You may think you know the story, but this pear tree will
never fully reveal her secrets. Listen closely most.
People know the rhyme. Lizzie Borden took an axe.
But behind those sing song wordslies something darker, stranger
(09:34):
rooted in the quiet streets of Fall River, MA.
In 1892, Lizzie Borden, a woman in her 20s, was accused of
murdering her father and stepmother.
She was tried, acquitted and immortalized.
(09:55):
There's a tree in that story that rarely gets mentioned.
Not the house. Not the axe.
A pear tree. Lizzie claimed she was outside
beneath its branches that morning, eating fruit while the
violence inside unfolded. Ordinary pears offered as proof
(10:17):
of innocence. Sweetness turned alibi.
Over time, the tree itself slipped into legend.
Locals whispered that it had seen everything, that if you
stood beneath it you could feel a chill, as though the air
(10:38):
itself remembered. Now it lingers in ghost tours
and midnight retellings, a symbol of how the ordinary turns
uncanny, a tree meant for comfort and harvest, forever
tied to horror. Picture it late summer light,
(11:04):
Lizzie beneath the leaves, juiceon her fingertips.
Inside the house, silence. Then something breaks, and the
tree stands still, watching. Some trees are known for their
(11:25):
fruit, others for their shade, and some for the secrets they
keep. And in this way, the Lizzie
Borden Pear tree joins the long tradition of trees as quiet
witnesses to human stories, not only our joys and celebration,
(11:47):
but also our fears, our secrets and the shadows we carry.
We've all heard stories about people wandering into the dark
forest. Emerald has a story to share
(12:07):
about her own chilling experience that will make the
hairs on your neck stand straight up.
I was living in Uganda and I wasthe manager of a home for
(12:32):
children with HIV and AIDS, and I was way too young for a job
like that. I was advocating for one child
specifically and was able to gethim to the capital for some
medical care, and he died under my watch and it was slow and
awful and there are a million things that should have taken
place differently. And I blamed myself for his
(12:53):
death. So I kind of checked out from my
job in Uganda and was just looking for friendship and
distraction because I was really, really wrestling with
what do I think I'm doing here? So I came across these other
(13:15):
Americans who worked for an organization and seemingly they
did real good work. And one of the most effervescent
members of the group was Jamie Roach.
But I just knew instantly we hada connection and I wanted to
spend more time with him. On the following day, Jamie said
he wanted to do some sort of adventure and didn't really have
(13:37):
a rudder. And I was like, I have no
rudder. Let me latch on to you and your
adventure. And Jamie knows how to slow down
and soak things in. I do not know how to slow down
or soak things in. Or perhaps I can soak them, but
I can't go slow. Anyway, at some point we ended
up on a bus headed north and we went to this eco tourism
(14:00):
campsite and we said, yeah, we want to go for a bike ride.
They said, great, there are bikes and here's a map.
So it was afternoon and we jumped on our bikes and we
started into the woods and we did not get far into the woods
before Jamie said, wow, that's such a beautiful tree.
(14:21):
Let's take a let's just sit under this tree and really soak
it in. And I was like, Oh my God.
OK, so I got off my bike and I sat patiently soaking in the
tree which was hard for little old busy me.
(14:43):
When Jamie had had his sufficient experience, we got
back on our bikes to keep going and we didn't get very far
before we realized it's getting a bit dark.
Let's turn around. So we tried and then it got
darker but we could not find ourtrail and it got darker and
(15:04):
darker and then it was dark. Just the straight up definition
of dark. We could honestly barely see one
another. I don't know whose bike broke
first, but both of our bikes broke like chains snapped or
fell off. Then it became so muddy.
(15:26):
And the thing about a bike is when it's muddy, the spokes like
collect mud. So all of a sudden something
that may have been like 15 lbs is like 40 lbs.
And we were both dragging our bikes through the woods.
We walked probably for like at first maybe an hour and all of a
(15:47):
sudden right in front of us weretwo eyes.
And these two eyes poked out andwe were like man in the woods
and he was at a fork in the road.
He didn't say a word. Jamie and I together had a
medium ish grasp on 4 languages,English, Swahili, Luganda,
(16:12):
Rutoro. This guy responded to zero of
those things. So we had a question for
ourselves like do we go left or do we go right?
And I think the guy was kind of motioning to the right, so we
decided to follow him. It was just kind of like a gut
check. We could not see him or his
feet, so we were just following the sound of his galoshes.
(16:34):
So here I am in the middle of the woods and I've got it in my
brain that a snake is going to bite us and we're going to die
or AI don't know a lion or whatever.
I mean it's not too crazy to think of because I was living in
western Uganda like an hour fromthe safari park.
But one day a lion got loose andended up in our village.
(16:56):
It was like eating cows. So not the craziest thing, but I
was terrified. So walking, walking, following
the guy and all of a sudden I heard Jamie screech and I was
like, it's beginning. The death is beginning.
(17:19):
But then immediately I also heard giggling like a little
girl. And what had taken place was
these children had been in the woods, saw us coming, grabbed
his pants, and these two guys kind of poked out of the bushes
and took our bikes and put them over their shoulders.
Thank God because we were exhausted.
So then we kept walking for morehours.
(17:41):
The thing that I can't quite describe is how eerie everything
felt. It felt scarier, creepier, more
death like. I don't know, the the energy was
terrifying. Then, though, we heard Shakira,
no joke. So we're walking toward this
(18:01):
sound and it gets louder and louder.
We're getting closer. Oh my gosh, like, Hooray.
And the guys with the bikes, kind of like, I don't know,
disappeared. And then the man with the
galoshes stopped and he turned to us and put his hand on his
chest and said, I am Michael. We were like.
Thank you, Michael. And then the people from the
(18:23):
ecotourism place, they came to us and said, Oh my goodness, we
cannot believe you've been found.
We have a search party, we have people on motorbikes out looking
for you. You've been gone for so many
hours. We were terrified.
We thought you were gone for good.
But I think it kind of ends there.
(18:45):
Except a couple weeks later, I was back in western Uganda and
talking with some friends, and one friend is half British, half
Ugandan. I mentioned this story, and she
said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You were lost in Mabira Forest. I said, yeah, She said, my dad's
in Mabira Forest. So what do you mean?
(19:06):
She said that's where all the mass graves are.
That's why the people wouldn't let the government sell it
because that's where Idi Amin would put the bodies of people
that were murdered. And that is probably why it was
one of the scariest, most eerie places I've ever been because we
(19:28):
were walking on mass graves. What a shocking story.
(19:49):
I bet you'll think twice about wandering into unknown woods
without knowing more about the history of the land upon which
you stand. From Uganda to the West Coast of
California, Cheryl has a ghastlystory to share about ghostly
(20:10):
evergreens that are not Evergreen.
And not quite what they seem. Take it away, Cheryl.
Have you ever seen something that you just simply couldn't
explain? Here is the story of the coastal
ghost trees. Ghosts are some of the most
(20:32):
popular characters of this season.
From people dressing up to the spooky tales that are told late
at night, they seem to be everywhere during this month.
But have you ever heard of the ghost trees?
That a lucky. Few.
Have been fortunate to see and live to tell the tale.
(20:55):
The Coast Redwood is known for being one of the largest and
tallest trees on Earth and is found on the Pacific Coast of
the United States. Yet it has a secret mystery that
very few have ever seen. Imagine this magnificent Redwood
but with white needles as thoughit were spray painted.
(21:20):
This rare sight is called the albino Redwood.
Known as a delayed mutation or simply a deficiency of
chlorophyll, these trees needleslack green pigment.
Without chlorophyll, albino redwoods are not able to make
food via light from photosynthesis.
(21:42):
In order to survive, the ghost trees take advantage of their
shared root systems and siphon off nutrients from nearby
healthy redwoods. So I wonder, are they ghosts or
vampires? What causes this phenomenon, you
(22:03):
may ask? Well, it is not known for sure.
Some scientists propose UV lightexposure or perhaps too much
human interaction. Alas, we can love a tree to
death, and one eager scientist surmises that the answer lies in
(22:26):
the tree's symbiotic relationship.
The albino needles are saturatedwith a deadly cocktail of
cadmium, copper, and nickel. In short, the ghost trees are
sucking heavy metals from the ground and saving their brethren
from this poison in exchange forthe sugar they need to survive.
(22:49):
These phantom trees need to be protected by both scientists and
tree lovers, for well meaning humans may inadvertently trample
their roots, breaking the connection from tree to tree as
well as their ability to pump water.
The ghost trees of the forest are clinging to life, eternally
(23:12):
ephemeral as they struggle for existence.
Can we learn enough to save themin time?
That remains a mystery. So very few have seen these
ghostly trees. The lucky ones have quite a
frightful tale to tell. Thank you, Peril.
(23:37):
You've given us much to think about.
Here's a story for the skeptics,realists and history lovers.
The tale of the terrifying Tuliptree.
Maybe it doesn't sound scary, but this one might make you lose
your head. I take you now to 1790, to a
(23:57):
Dutch settlement, a small Glen in Tarrytown, NY, otherwise
known as Sleepy Hollow. This is where an unfortunate
rider mounted his horse but never arrived at his
destination. Perhaps you've heard about poor
Ichabod Crane and his final ride.
Even before he meets the terrifying Headless Horseman,
(24:19):
his fateful journey turns ghostly when he comes across a
tree. Not just any tree though.
Washington Irving tells us through Ichabod Cranes
narrative. All of the stories of ghosts and
goblins that he had heard in theafternoon now came crowding upon
his recollection. The night grew darker and
(24:39):
darker. The stars seemed to sink deeper
in the sky, and driving clouds occasionally hid them from his
sight. He had never felt so lonely and
dismal. He was, moreover, approaching
the very place where many of thescenes of the ghost stories had
been laid. In the center of the road stood
(25:00):
an enormous Tulip tree, which towered like a giant above all
the other trees of the neighborhood, and formed a kind
of landmark. Its limbs were gnarled and
fantastic, large enough to form trunks for ordinary trees,
twisting down almost to the earth, and rising again into the
air. It was connected with the
(25:21):
tragical story of the unfortunate Andre, who had been
taken prisoner hard by, and was universally known by the name of
Major Andre's tree. The common people regarded it
with a mixture of respect and superstition, partly out of
sympathy for the fate of its I'll starred namesake, and
(25:42):
partly from the tales of strangesights and doleful lamentations
told concerning it. The remainder of Ichabod's
tragic and terrifying ride is well known, but perhaps you do
not know about Major Andre. Major John Andre was the head of
the Secret Service in the British Army during the American
(26:05):
Revolutionary War. He was hanged as a spy by the
Continental Army for assisting Benedict Arnold's attempted
surrender of the Fort at West Point, NY, to the British.
Andre's capture and hanging bothoccurred at this foreboding
Tulip tree, which stood in the middle of the road at the Sleepy
(26:26):
Hollow Tarrytown line, a towering, enormous tree said to
be 10 paces round and 111 feet high.
It is associated with misfortune, loneliness, and
lamentations. Andre garnered so much sympathy
that it is said that this spot was consecrated by thousands of
(26:47):
tears. The imposing, otherworldly Tulip
tree was struck by lightning anddestroyed in 1801.
Even so, the legends live on. Maybe it's because Irving's
gothic story is so captivating. Maybe it's because the sounds of
wailing and lamentations can still be heard at these
(27:09):
crossroads. Or perhaps it is because no one
knows what happened to Ichabod Crane or the Headless Horseman.
Perhaps they will ride again. Maybe tonight.
I'd be careful as you head home this evening.
And if you hear galloping horsesfly as fast as your feet can
(27:29):
take you. Trees are mysterious.
They are powerful. Oh, you still don't believe me?
Well then you underestimate the strength of a tree.
(27:50):
So I will share with you the darkest, most horrible story of
them all. Here is the tale of the
secretive Salem tree. Surely you've heard about the
witch trials in Salem, MA in 1692.
Well, the spirit of superstitionlives on there.
(28:11):
Many years ago, a young woman wound her way to the historic
haunted town with a little camera in hand.
Not the kinds we have now on ourphones.
This was an older second hand manual piece.
The kind where you wind the filmin it and develop it later
without knowing how it will look, all the while hoping
(28:33):
you've completely captured the essence of the image.
She arrived at her destination in Salem, MA, just blocks from
the sea, a dark Red House with many windows.
It may look like any other house, but it was the birth
place of author Nathaniel Hawthorne, who wrote The Scarlet
Letter and The House of the Seven Gables.
(28:53):
The young woman had time before the tour began and wandered the
property. The trees were large and
daunting, towering above 1's head with twisted, elaborate
branches. She was drawn by the intense
energy of a particular tree, with a different kind of energy
than one she'd ever felt before.The energy grew and grew until
(29:17):
she arrived at its source, one tree that stood a bit far off
but overlooked the rest. It was larger than the others,
with an enormous trunk. Thick, dense branches looking up
the tree's canopy created a web blocking out the whole sky.
What a perfect image, she thought.
(29:38):
A fantastic photograph. She readied her camera and
looked up for the perfect angle.Then she felt it.
Do not be. Foolish.
Do not proceed. It was the tree.
While the words were not said aloud, she sensed them as clear
(30:00):
as can be, echoing in her chest.She dismissed it.
That's silly, she thought. You're just spooking yourself.
She raised the camera again. Little girl.
The energy echoed through her ribs.
This is not for you. You cannot have it, she replied
(30:24):
in her mind. It's just a picture.
It won't harm you. I'll just take 3 pictures and
leave. As she raised her camera and
moved her finger to the button, she heard faintly such hubris.
Days later, and now very far from Salem, she picked up the
(30:46):
developed photographs, eager to see the results.
She went one by one through the images of that day, the rough
harbour, the red bricked and wooden historic homes,
blossoming flowers in the springsun, all the while anticipating
the three photos of the powerfultree.
(31:07):
Just when she came upon the anticipated 3 photos, she
instead held in her hand blank black photos.
That can't be right, she thought.
She went through the photos again. 3 black photos.
The tree was nowhere to be found.
(31:30):
So I ask you, was it a mistake, a simple technical error?
Or was the power of the tree stronger than the foolish woman
and her camera? Perhaps it is a cautionary tale
to look with your eyes and stop trying to hold on to that which
isn't yours. The thought of it all still
(31:53):
haunts her to this day. I still look at the black photos
and wonder, oh I'm sure you've guessed it, the young woman was
me. Since that day, I have never
doubted the strength of a tree, never dared to walk deep into
the dark dense woods at night, and never, ever dismissed the
messages of a tree. From someone who knows, I advise
(32:18):
you to do the same. Oh dear friends, our fire is but
embers now, but the storm has passed and your clothes seem
dry. It's very late, but you should
be on your way. Be brave and stick to the path.
(32:40):
I'm so glad we were able to spend this time together.
Don't let these stories scare you, but do heed their lessons.
Terrible things have befallen those who have not listened to
the warnings of the trees. If you've stayed with us this
(33:11):
far, you are very brave indeed. Find us on Instagram at Tree
Speech Podcast or Tree speechpodcast.com.
This is also where you can find our show notes and learn more
about our featured trees. If it doesn't keep you up all
night, please like us on social media and rate and review us on
Apple Podcasts or you will be cursed and we will haunt you for
(33:34):
the rest of your days. This week's episode was recorded
and produced in Massachusetts onthe native lands of the Wabanaki
Confederacy, Hannekuk, Massa, Chuesset, and Pawtucket people,
and in Wisconsin on the lands ofthe Ho Chunk, Hotawatomi, and
Menominee people. Special thanks to actor and
(33:55):
arboreal lover Cheryl Mullings for sharing her story about the
Ghost Trees, and actor, educator, and dialect coach
Charles Lynnshaw for his readingof the excerpt of The Legend of
Sleepy Hollow. Also thank you to Alison Meyer
for her Tree Legend of the Mulberry Tree and Lore of
(34:16):
Washington Square Park and Emerald Forcier for her story of
her time in the Mabira Forest. Tree Speech is produced and Co
written by Dory Robinson and Jonathan Zoutner who is also the
sound editor and designer for this episode.
Happy Halloween, Stay Spooky, and thank you for joining us
(34:37):
once again for Tree Speech.
Imagine the scariest story you've ever heard.
Where did it take place? In seasons past, we've told
tales from the shadow depths of Germany's Black Forest to the
fairy trees of Ireland to the whispering kodama spirits of
Japan. But what if the most haunted
(00:25):
things aren't far away at all? What if they're right in your
own backyard? Maybe it's that old oak outside
your window, the one that creakswhen the wind blows.
Maybe it's just the breeze. Or maybe it's trying to tell you
something. Welcome to Tree Speech.
(00:46):
I'm Jonathan Zoutner, and tonight we invite you to listen
closely. It's our annual celebration of
spooky trees, a night of eerie legends, spectral woods and
ghostly Groves where every rustling leaf might carry a
story centuries old. Tonight we share both new
(01:09):
stories and the ones that have become tradition.
So gather close if you dare, because the trees remember.
(01:51):
Oh, good. You made it.
I didn't expect this storm, did you?
I'm so glad you're here. You're soaked.
Poor thing. Come in.
Come in. What a journey you must have
taken. I'll build us a fire so we can
warm up together. And I can tell you a few stories
(02:11):
to take your mind off the cold and the storm.
There we go. For those who don't know me, my
name is Gory Robinson and I'll be your host for this special
night. What a wonderful tradition, a
special way to mark the season of Sawan.
(02:33):
The thinning of the veil, the bleeding of the boundaries
between summer and winter, the dead and the living, what has
departed and what is yet to come.
On this special night of Halloween, we always share
stories about trees that spookedour souls.
Ah, but dear friends, there are so many more trees with secrets
(02:56):
to share. Are you brave enough to hear
their dark tales? Good.
Well then, let's get started. But don't say I didn't warn you.
Our first story comes from someone who knows her way around
a cemetery. Author and tour guide Alison
(03:19):
Meyer, who tells US Tree Legendsshe shares with those who dare
take her tour through Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn, NY.
I've been researching and writing about cemeteries and
death related things for years now and also leading cemetery
(03:41):
tours mainly at Greenwood Cemetery and I try to always
work in some tree lore when I dothose tours because I think our
burial spaces have a lot of connections to trees.
In terms of folklore, one of theobvious ones are yew trees which
(04:01):
have a lot of lore in the UK. Like there's very ancient yew
trees and old burial grounds that are set to have been
planted by the Druids and that there would tuck you branches
into coffins and things like that.
One of the stories that I do tell on these tours, because
Greenwood Cemetery is this really evocative tree alley of
(04:25):
these weeping Mulberry trees right near its huge Gothic arch.
And I try to mention this ancient Greek myth about why the
Mulberry tree has red berries and some of them are white and
turn red. And the tale goes back in
ancient Babylon. And this is a story that's like
(04:47):
best known from Ovid, the poem Metamorphosis.
There were basically the ancientGreek version of Romeo and
Juliet, or really they preceded them, Pyramus and Thisbee.
And like Romeo and Juliet, they were from these separate
families that had a rivalry. So their parents were not into
their union. And so instead they would
(05:09):
communicate through this crack in a wall between their two
houses and they would plan to meet under a Mulberry tree in
person. And then there was this night
where they're going to meet there.
And 1st the species shows up, but the lioness comes as well,
and she runs away but leaves hercloak there.
And so when Pyramus comes, he finds this cloak just left
(05:31):
behind. He thinks that she has been
killed by the lioness. And so he kills himself, and his
blood stains all the Mulberry fruits on the trees, turning
those white berries red. So when Thyssbee comes back, she
sees Pyramus has killed himself and much, you know, like Romeo
(05:52):
and Juliet, she kills herself aswell.
And so in honor of their forbidden love, said that the
gods permanently changed the colors of the Mulberry fruits
from white to red. So I tell that story on the
cemetery tours because there's alot of interesting myth and lore
(06:16):
that's come through trees and especially in places of death.
It's kind of interesting to think about how actual blood
spilled was interpreted in this way in the Mulberry trees.
What is believed to be Manhattan's oldest tree is known
as the Hangman's Elm, and that'sin Washington Square Park.
(06:38):
It's this super old gnarled English Elm, like all Elms, has
those branches that kind of crooked.
All the the creepy angle so it looks very spooky.
Does have this myth that people were hanged from it at some
point, particularly during the American Revolution.
(06:58):
However it does seem to manly belegend.
There was a gallows near there at some point where it's known
at least one person was hanged. I believe it's a woman who
committed arson, but no one is recorded hanged from that tree.
I think, though, it just looks like the kind of tree that
(07:19):
somebody would have been hangingfrom and it became cursed or
something, because it does standout from all the smaller trees
around it. But to bring it to cemeteries,
what I think is really interesting about it is
Washington Square Park actually was a Potter's field and there
are definitely still thousands of bodies beneath the earth,
like below the playgrounds, below the fountain.
(07:40):
They actually when they were redoing the fountain not too
long ago, they had to redesign it so it would be shallower, so
it would just rest above the skeletons rather than disturbing
them. So they were definitely still
there. But it's kind of this invisible
graveyard now. Most of the internments, I
believe, are in the 18th into the 19th century, but people are
(08:03):
still there. And they actually reinterred
people in the garden not too long ago who were disturbed by
construction. And some of the crew from
Greenwood Cemetery came and did that.
And now there's a plaque in the ground basically saying this is
a park, but it's also a cemetery.
So to bring it back to the tree,while the hangman's Elm, I do
(08:24):
not think actually it has much of A hanging past, I do feel
like it's the one kind of like old spectre of the past that
remains a Washington Square parkto remind you just how long
people have been transforming this ground.
And I don't know when the hanging urban legends started,
(08:44):
but it does hint towards this macabre history Washington
Square Park that I think goes overlooked.
From the cemetery to the crime scene, Jonathan has a delicious
tale based on truth and a pear tree Who witnessed it all?
(09:08):
You may think you know the story, but this pear tree will
never fully reveal her secrets. Listen closely most.
People know the rhyme. Lizzie Borden took an axe.
But behind those sing song wordslies something darker, stranger
(09:34):
rooted in the quiet streets of Fall River, MA.
In 1892, Lizzie Borden, a woman in her 20s, was accused of
murdering her father and stepmother.
She was tried, acquitted and immortalized.
(09:55):
There's a tree in that story that rarely gets mentioned.
Not the house. Not the axe.
A pear tree. Lizzie claimed she was outside
beneath its branches that morning, eating fruit while the
violence inside unfolded. Ordinary pears offered as proof
(10:17):
of innocence. Sweetness turned alibi.
Over time, the tree itself slipped into legend.
Locals whispered that it had seen everything, that if you
stood beneath it you could feel a chill, as though the air
(10:38):
itself remembered. Now it lingers in ghost tours
and midnight retellings, a symbol of how the ordinary turns
uncanny, a tree meant for comfort and harvest, forever
tied to horror. Picture it late summer light,
(11:04):
Lizzie beneath the leaves, juiceon her fingertips.
Inside the house, silence. Then something breaks, and the
tree stands still, watching. Some trees are known for their
(11:25):
fruit, others for their shade, and some for the secrets they
keep. And in this way, the Lizzie
Borden Pear tree joins the long tradition of trees as quiet
witnesses to human stories, not only our joys and celebration,
(11:47):
but also our fears, our secrets and the shadows we carry.
We've all heard stories about people wandering into the dark
forest. Emerald has a story to share
(12:07):
about her own chilling experience that will make the
hairs on your neck stand straight up.
I was living in Uganda and I wasthe manager of a home for
(12:32):
children with HIV and AIDS, and I was way too young for a job
like that. I was advocating for one child
specifically and was able to gethim to the capital for some
medical care, and he died under my watch and it was slow and
awful and there are a million things that should have taken
place differently. And I blamed myself for his
(12:53):
death. So I kind of checked out from my
job in Uganda and was just looking for friendship and
distraction because I was really, really wrestling with
what do I think I'm doing here? So I came across these other
(13:15):
Americans who worked for an organization and seemingly they
did real good work. And one of the most effervescent
members of the group was Jamie Roach.
But I just knew instantly we hada connection and I wanted to
spend more time with him. On the following day, Jamie said
he wanted to do some sort of adventure and didn't really have
(13:37):
a rudder. And I was like, I have no
rudder. Let me latch on to you and your
adventure. And Jamie knows how to slow down
and soak things in. I do not know how to slow down
or soak things in. Or perhaps I can soak them, but
I can't go slow. Anyway, at some point we ended
up on a bus headed north and we went to this eco tourism
(14:00):
campsite and we said, yeah, we want to go for a bike ride.
They said, great, there are bikes and here's a map.
So it was afternoon and we jumped on our bikes and we
started into the woods and we did not get far into the woods
before Jamie said, wow, that's such a beautiful tree.
(14:21):
Let's take a let's just sit under this tree and really soak
it in. And I was like, Oh my God.
OK, so I got off my bike and I sat patiently soaking in the
tree which was hard for little old busy me.
(14:43):
When Jamie had had his sufficient experience, we got
back on our bikes to keep going and we didn't get very far
before we realized it's getting a bit dark.
Let's turn around. So we tried and then it got
darker but we could not find ourtrail and it got darker and
(15:04):
darker and then it was dark. Just the straight up definition
of dark. We could honestly barely see one
another. I don't know whose bike broke
first, but both of our bikes broke like chains snapped or
fell off. Then it became so muddy.
(15:26):
And the thing about a bike is when it's muddy, the spokes like
collect mud. So all of a sudden something
that may have been like 15 lbs is like 40 lbs.
And we were both dragging our bikes through the woods.
We walked probably for like at first maybe an hour and all of a
(15:47):
sudden right in front of us weretwo eyes.
And these two eyes poked out andwe were like man in the woods
and he was at a fork in the road.
He didn't say a word. Jamie and I together had a
medium ish grasp on 4 languages,English, Swahili, Luganda,
(16:12):
Rutoro. This guy responded to zero of
those things. So we had a question for
ourselves like do we go left or do we go right?
And I think the guy was kind of motioning to the right, so we
decided to follow him. It was just kind of like a gut
check. We could not see him or his
feet, so we were just following the sound of his galoshes.
(16:34):
So here I am in the middle of the woods and I've got it in my
brain that a snake is going to bite us and we're going to die
or AI don't know a lion or whatever.
I mean it's not too crazy to think of because I was living in
western Uganda like an hour fromthe safari park.
But one day a lion got loose andended up in our village.
(16:56):
It was like eating cows. So not the craziest thing, but I
was terrified. So walking, walking, following
the guy and all of a sudden I heard Jamie screech and I was
like, it's beginning. The death is beginning.
(17:19):
But then immediately I also heard giggling like a little
girl. And what had taken place was
these children had been in the woods, saw us coming, grabbed
his pants, and these two guys kind of poked out of the bushes
and took our bikes and put them over their shoulders.
Thank God because we were exhausted.
So then we kept walking for morehours.
(17:41):
The thing that I can't quite describe is how eerie everything
felt. It felt scarier, creepier, more
death like. I don't know, the the energy was
terrifying. Then, though, we heard Shakira,
no joke. So we're walking toward this
(18:01):
sound and it gets louder and louder.
We're getting closer. Oh my gosh, like, Hooray.
And the guys with the bikes, kind of like, I don't know,
disappeared. And then the man with the
galoshes stopped and he turned to us and put his hand on his
chest and said, I am Michael. We were like.
Thank you, Michael. And then the people from the
(18:23):
ecotourism place, they came to us and said, Oh my goodness, we
cannot believe you've been found.
We have a search party, we have people on motorbikes out looking
for you. You've been gone for so many
hours. We were terrified.
We thought you were gone for good.
But I think it kind of ends there.
(18:45):
Except a couple weeks later, I was back in western Uganda and
talking with some friends, and one friend is half British, half
Ugandan. I mentioned this story, and she
said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You were lost in Mabira Forest. I said, yeah, She said, my dad's
in Mabira Forest. So what do you mean?
(19:06):
She said that's where all the mass graves are.
That's why the people wouldn't let the government sell it
because that's where Idi Amin would put the bodies of people
that were murdered. And that is probably why it was
one of the scariest, most eerie places I've ever been because we
(19:28):
were walking on mass graves. What a shocking story.
(19:49):
I bet you'll think twice about wandering into unknown woods
without knowing more about the history of the land upon which
you stand. From Uganda to the West Coast of
California, Cheryl has a ghastlystory to share about ghostly
(20:10):
evergreens that are not Evergreen.
And not quite what they seem. Take it away, Cheryl.
Have you ever seen something that you just simply couldn't
explain? Here is the story of the coastal
ghost trees. Ghosts are some of the most
(20:32):
popular characters of this season.
From people dressing up to the spooky tales that are told late
at night, they seem to be everywhere during this month.
But have you ever heard of the ghost trees?
That a lucky. Few.
Have been fortunate to see and live to tell the tale.
(20:55):
The Coast Redwood is known for being one of the largest and
tallest trees on Earth and is found on the Pacific Coast of
the United States. Yet it has a secret mystery that
very few have ever seen. Imagine this magnificent Redwood
but with white needles as thoughit were spray painted.
(21:20):
This rare sight is called the albino Redwood.
Known as a delayed mutation or simply a deficiency of
chlorophyll, these trees needleslack green pigment.
Without chlorophyll, albino redwoods are not able to make
food via light from photosynthesis.
(21:42):
In order to survive, the ghost trees take advantage of their
shared root systems and siphon off nutrients from nearby
healthy redwoods. So I wonder, are they ghosts or
vampires? What causes this phenomenon, you
(22:03):
may ask? Well, it is not known for sure.
Some scientists propose UV lightexposure or perhaps too much
human interaction. Alas, we can love a tree to
death, and one eager scientist surmises that the answer lies in
(22:26):
the tree's symbiotic relationship.
The albino needles are saturatedwith a deadly cocktail of
cadmium, copper, and nickel. In short, the ghost trees are
sucking heavy metals from the ground and saving their brethren
from this poison in exchange forthe sugar they need to survive.
(22:49):
These phantom trees need to be protected by both scientists and
tree lovers, for well meaning humans may inadvertently trample
their roots, breaking the connection from tree to tree as
well as their ability to pump water.
The ghost trees of the forest are clinging to life, eternally
(23:12):
ephemeral as they struggle for existence.
Can we learn enough to save themin time?
That remains a mystery. So very few have seen these
ghostly trees. The lucky ones have quite a
frightful tale to tell. Thank you, Peril.
(23:37):
You've given us much to think about.
Here's a story for the skeptics,realists and history lovers.
The tale of the terrifying Tuliptree.
Maybe it doesn't sound scary, but this one might make you lose
your head. I take you now to 1790, to a
(23:57):
Dutch settlement, a small Glen in Tarrytown, NY, otherwise
known as Sleepy Hollow. This is where an unfortunate
rider mounted his horse but never arrived at his
destination. Perhaps you've heard about poor
Ichabod Crane and his final ride.
Even before he meets the terrifying Headless Horseman,
(24:19):
his fateful journey turns ghostly when he comes across a
tree. Not just any tree though.
Washington Irving tells us through Ichabod Cranes
narrative. All of the stories of ghosts and
goblins that he had heard in theafternoon now came crowding upon
his recollection. The night grew darker and
(24:39):
darker. The stars seemed to sink deeper
in the sky, and driving clouds occasionally hid them from his
sight. He had never felt so lonely and
dismal. He was, moreover, approaching
the very place where many of thescenes of the ghost stories had
been laid. In the center of the road stood
(25:00):
an enormous Tulip tree, which towered like a giant above all
the other trees of the neighborhood, and formed a kind
of landmark. Its limbs were gnarled and
fantastic, large enough to form trunks for ordinary trees,
twisting down almost to the earth, and rising again into the
air. It was connected with the
(25:21):
tragical story of the unfortunate Andre, who had been
taken prisoner hard by, and was universally known by the name of
Major Andre's tree. The common people regarded it
with a mixture of respect and superstition, partly out of
sympathy for the fate of its I'll starred namesake, and
(25:42):
partly from the tales of strangesights and doleful lamentations
told concerning it. The remainder of Ichabod's
tragic and terrifying ride is well known, but perhaps you do
not know about Major Andre. Major John Andre was the head of
the Secret Service in the British Army during the American
(26:05):
Revolutionary War. He was hanged as a spy by the
Continental Army for assisting Benedict Arnold's attempted
surrender of the Fort at West Point, NY, to the British.
Andre's capture and hanging bothoccurred at this foreboding
Tulip tree, which stood in the middle of the road at the Sleepy
(26:26):
Hollow Tarrytown line, a towering, enormous tree said to
be 10 paces round and 111 feet high.
It is associated with misfortune, loneliness, and
lamentations. Andre garnered so much sympathy
that it is said that this spot was consecrated by thousands of
(26:47):
tears. The imposing, otherworldly Tulip
tree was struck by lightning anddestroyed in 1801.
Even so, the legends live on. Maybe it's because Irving's
gothic story is so captivating. Maybe it's because the sounds of
wailing and lamentations can still be heard at these
(27:09):
crossroads. Or perhaps it is because no one
knows what happened to Ichabod Crane or the Headless Horseman.
Perhaps they will ride again. Maybe tonight.
I'd be careful as you head home this evening.
And if you hear galloping horsesfly as fast as your feet can
(27:29):
take you. Trees are mysterious.
They are powerful. Oh, you still don't believe me?
Well then you underestimate the strength of a tree.
(27:50):
So I will share with you the darkest, most horrible story of
them all. Here is the tale of the
secretive Salem tree. Surely you've heard about the
witch trials in Salem, MA in 1692.
Well, the spirit of superstitionlives on there.
(28:11):
Many years ago, a young woman wound her way to the historic
haunted town with a little camera in hand.
Not the kinds we have now on ourphones.
This was an older second hand manual piece.
The kind where you wind the filmin it and develop it later
without knowing how it will look, all the while hoping
(28:33):
you've completely captured the essence of the image.
She arrived at her destination in Salem, MA, just blocks from
the sea, a dark Red House with many windows.
It may look like any other house, but it was the birth
place of author Nathaniel Hawthorne, who wrote The Scarlet
Letter and The House of the Seven Gables.
(28:53):
The young woman had time before the tour began and wandered the
property. The trees were large and
daunting, towering above 1's head with twisted, elaborate
branches. She was drawn by the intense
energy of a particular tree, with a different kind of energy
than one she'd ever felt before.The energy grew and grew until
(29:17):
she arrived at its source, one tree that stood a bit far off
but overlooked the rest. It was larger than the others,
with an enormous trunk. Thick, dense branches looking up
the tree's canopy created a web blocking out the whole sky.
What a perfect image, she thought.
(29:38):
A fantastic photograph. She readied her camera and
looked up for the perfect angle.Then she felt it.
Do not be. Foolish.
Do not proceed. It was the tree.
While the words were not said aloud, she sensed them as clear
(30:00):
as can be, echoing in her chest.She dismissed it.
That's silly, she thought. You're just spooking yourself.
She raised the camera again. Little girl.
The energy echoed through her ribs.
This is not for you. You cannot have it, she replied
(30:24):
in her mind. It's just a picture.
It won't harm you. I'll just take 3 pictures and
leave. As she raised her camera and
moved her finger to the button, she heard faintly such hubris.
Days later, and now very far from Salem, she picked up the
(30:46):
developed photographs, eager to see the results.
She went one by one through the images of that day, the rough
harbour, the red bricked and wooden historic homes,
blossoming flowers in the springsun, all the while anticipating
the three photos of the powerfultree.
(31:07):
Just when she came upon the anticipated 3 photos, she
instead held in her hand blank black photos.
That can't be right, she thought.
She went through the photos again. 3 black photos.
The tree was nowhere to be found.
(31:30):
So I ask you, was it a mistake, a simple technical error?
Or was the power of the tree stronger than the foolish woman
and her camera? Perhaps it is a cautionary tale
to look with your eyes and stop trying to hold on to that which
isn't yours. The thought of it all still
(31:53):
haunts her to this day. I still look at the black photos
and wonder, oh I'm sure you've guessed it, the young woman was
me. Since that day, I have never
doubted the strength of a tree, never dared to walk deep into
the dark dense woods at night, and never, ever dismissed the
messages of a tree. From someone who knows, I advise
(32:18):
you to do the same. Oh dear friends, our fire is but
embers now, but the storm has passed and your clothes seem
dry. It's very late, but you should
be on your way. Be brave and stick to the path.
(32:40):
I'm so glad we were able to spend this time together.
Don't let these stories scare you, but do heed their lessons.
Terrible things have befallen those who have not listened to
the warnings of the trees. If you've stayed with us this
(33:11):
far, you are very brave indeed. Find us on Instagram at Tree
Speech Podcast or Tree speechpodcast.com.
This is also where you can find our show notes and learn more
about our featured trees. If it doesn't keep you up all
night, please like us on social media and rate and review us on
Apple Podcasts or you will be cursed and we will haunt you for
(33:34):
the rest of your days. This week's episode was recorded
and produced in Massachusetts onthe native lands of the Wabanaki
Confederacy, Hannekuk, Massa, Chuesset, and Pawtucket people,
and in Wisconsin on the lands ofthe Ho Chunk, Hotawatomi, and
Menominee people. Special thanks to actor and
(33:55):
arboreal lover Cheryl Mullings for sharing her story about the
Ghost Trees, and actor, educator, and dialect coach
Charles Lynnshaw for his readingof the excerpt of The Legend of
Sleepy Hollow. Also thank you to Alison Meyer
for her Tree Legend of the Mulberry Tree and Lore of
(34:16):
Washington Square Park and Emerald Forcier for her story of
her time in the Mabira Forest. Tree Speech is produced and Co
written by Dory Robinson and Jonathan Zoutner who is also the
sound editor and designer for this episode.
Happy Halloween, Stay Spooky, and thank you for joining us
(34:37):
once again for Tree Speech.
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