February 10, 2023 • 35 mins
In the final episode of our fourth season, producer and co-writer Jonathan Zautner interviews podcast host Dori Robinson about the Jewish “New Year of the Trees” - Tu B’Shevat. We continue to commemorate the close of the season by discussing our thoughts on the guests and topics we have covered.
Did you have a favorite episode, a thought about family trees, or a suggestion about what we should discuss next? Please message us on www.treespeechpodcast.com, or leave us a voice memo on Anchor. We look forward to hearing from you!
This week’s episode was written and recorded in Massachusetts on the native lands of the Wabanaki Confederacy, Pennacook, Massa-adchu-es-et (Massachusett), and Pawtucket people, and in New York on the land of the Lenapee tribes. Tree Speech is co-written and produced by Jonathan Zautner with Alight Theater Guild.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hello. My name is Dori Robinson and
this is tree speech a podcast where we strive to listen to the
forest through the trees. This week's episode was written
and recorded in Massachusetts onthe native lands of the wabanaki
Confederacy. Penacook, Massachusetts and
Pawtucket people and a New York on the land of the Lenape tribe.
(00:30):
Tribes tree speech is co-writtenand produced by Jonathan Zellner
who will be joining us today. This is the final episode of our
season and we will begin with a discussion of to bishvat the
Jewish New Year of the trees, which began last Sunday evening
at Sunset. We thought this would be the
(00:50):
perfect way to commemorate the close of our fourth season.
And we will also discuss our thoughts on the guests, and
topics that we've covered since we began.
Can this current season last September.
It was absolutely delightful forme to be interviewed by our
producer, Jonathan for this episode, and to discuss with him
to bishvat and this season of trees.
(01:13):
Let's listen. Hello to Dory.
Hi Jonathan it's so nice to see you.
I'm sitting in your seat. I'm not start as you usually do
(01:33):
by saying, thank you for taking time out of your busy day to be
with us. So happy that you're here to
talk about to burst fats and die.
I am excited to speak with you today.
Let's Jump Right In this. Feels like a celebratory
episode, so let's start the festivities is celebratory.
(01:56):
It's so it's so fun when when everyone gets to hear your voice
when we get to have a conversation, let's start, then
I'll just ask you for people whomay not know what is tuba
schwantz to bishvat, is a wonderful Jewish holiday, it's
one of the minor holidays And it's known as the new year of
(02:17):
the trees. It was originally for tithing
purposes. So, basically, in Judaism the
law judaism's, and actually a very agriculturally driven
Community much more so than sometimes we even realize, so
the the laws, the agricultural laws say that you don't pick the
(02:39):
fruit off the tree for the firstthree years of the trees life.
And in the fourth year, you Bring a tithe or bring a bit to
the at the time at the temple tofeed the priests but also the
poor and such. And so the idea was how could
you tell if it was the first three years or the fourth year?
(02:59):
How could you tell you know, who's keeping track of every
single tree and when you plantedit and what counts as the
birthday? And so, they came up with this
idea of having the new year of the Trees of having two bishvat
be the day that all the trees that had Been planted that year.
That becomes their birthday. So that that's when you start
(03:20):
counting their time in existence.
And that's because that's when the sap starts to come into the
three itself. So as you know, I'm in New
England. So it's a time that everything
looks very Barren and you think nothing's going on.
But as we know very well and when we've talked about a lot is
(03:41):
that it's actually a lot of internal work is happening.
So to bishvat started as a holiday about a ties, but then
began to evolve in beside that the 15th or 16th century.
A lot of kabbalists in Israel decided to really investigate it
and make it something even bigger.
(04:03):
And so these kabbalists, these Mystics created a Seder for to
bishvat to think about all the different kinds of fruits and
all the different kinds of wine.Wine and all the different kinds
of ways that we connect with nature.
So the Seder breaks into four different parts, and each part
(04:23):
has a different kind of fruit, whether it's soft on the
outside, with a pit on the inside, such as a date or an
orange, that has a rind on the outside and soft on the inside
and all the different ways that that helps us reflect on.
When are we soft on the outside and hard on the inside?
When I re hard on the outside? Outside and soft on the inside.
(04:46):
So it's this really lovely satyrthat many people.
Celebrate and now in modern day,it's more of our birthday or
Arbor Day. So it's a day that Jewish
communities plant trees or send money in order for trees to be
planted where they're needed. So it's just about our continued
(05:06):
connection to Nature and the environment.
It's beautiful. It's very cold in New York City
today. So, The idea that even though
we're all bundled up, not looking at one another screwing
around the streets that the sap is slowly coming into the trees
and that they are coming alive. Celebrating this Reaper, this
(05:29):
new year, I've never attended a satyr.
So could you tell us what that is, referring to what that looks
like? And then, maybe go into, you had
talked about the fruit, the hard, and the softness.
And I'm not sure, also, exactly,That means as it applies to us.
So I'd love to hear more about how this to bishvat is
(05:51):
celebrated. Yeah, it's true.
It is really cold here. And I remember as a child when
we were celebrating to bishvat and like synagogue and whatnot,
and there were all these photos of Israel and date trees, and
pomegranates, and all these warmthings, and we're in February
and were bundled up. And so it was always a very,
(06:11):
very funny moment to eat fruits and nuts and Things that that
aren't really accessible usuallyin February.
So the Seder was created in the 16th century by catalysts and
Mystics and they really focused on imagery and symbolism meant
to Mark, the Four Seasons and inkabbalistic or mystical Theory,
(06:34):
everything's always broken into spheres.
There's a lot of alignment with concepts of chakras and and
these kind of things, they really go very deep and
mystical. Yeah.
Oh, it's beautiful. Um, the Seder is referring to,
it's a meal. Is that right?
Or it's so it's at a dinner table at Sunset which is
determined. Usually the rabbi's would say
(06:57):
when you see three stars in the sky, that's when that's when
it's officially Sunset because how could, how else can you
tell? You know, it's about.
Yes, yes, yes, in the pre-googleworld.
How else are you to know? So you see the three stars?
And then what happens? So seder means order, but it is
(07:18):
referring to a meal. So the order of the meal has,
there's lots of rituals that arein a specific order to take you
on a journey. And so it's split into four
sections, and we start with winter.
So, the first sphere is Asia, which is relationship with land
and place. And so, it's really concrete and
(07:39):
physical. So, you start with white wine
for this because it's the most Barren, the This is really
protection about Shields and defenses and and we think about
what it would take to remove theouter shell.
So fruits are nuts. That might be related, might be
almonds, bananas, coconuts, papayas things where you have to
(08:00):
peel something or break, something open in order to
consume it, asea means actualization, fruits and nuts.
That have a heart outside and a fleshy inside, and they're
supposed to sort of Find us of the ways that we sort of pull
ourselves up. And winter, makes us all feel a
(08:21):
bit dormant and all feel a bit cold.
And so how do we connect with what's hidden inside us and
start with that? So the actualization is a
removing the outer covering or the hard shell to get to the
authentic inauthentic, exactly. And so the next is yet Sierra,
(08:43):
which means formation and It's about relationship with
communities. So again that first one is like
relationship with land in place and being, you know, just sort
of Landing, if you can think of it that way.
And then you'd see a first of all, with the wine, you still
have your white wine. But you add a little bit of red
to it. And that's how you start
bringing yourself to spring. So this is marked by eating
(09:06):
fruits with pits at the center. And what's fun about this is
that pits are often discarded. Like I always bring updates
their sort of the Thing to talk about.
So they're soft on the outside, hard on the, inside the seeds,
on the inside, you throw them away and that's what causes
rebirth. And we eat these fruits to
remind us that flowering trees were once.
(09:27):
Barren, that, that there's a process.
The mystics would say that this is a world of inwardness, of
emotion, a sense of feeling and that what we were protecting
before in the previous fear is part of what's like really,
really important, it's the heart, so some of the things we
would be looking at. Our apricots, avocados cherries,
(09:47):
olives, peaches plums, but againwith that knowledge of there's
soft and fleshy. And what's inside is really so
important because it's that seedthat creates regrowth and
continuation beautiful. Then we get to relationship with
(10:20):
the world which is in the part of the Seder.
It's called Bree I or creation. Actually, the first book of the
Torah of the five books of Mosesor what might be known by
others. As the Old Testament is Genesis
is translated for us, as is about creation, connects to
creation and it's about eating fruits that are entirely edible.
(10:42):
So that's about reminding us of the wholeness of the world with
that, that if everything is soft, then you're more able to
as opposed to winter when you were closed off.
You're now able to open up and and really connect there's no
more protective shells or hard internal elements and so this
could be blackberries, blueberries figs grapes,
(11:06):
strawberries things like that. And of course we've added more
red wine to the white wine. So that we come to summer, we
finish off with a solute which means nobility, but it's really
about our relationship with spirituality.
And there's no fruit involved with this.
So this is really the mystics saying that this is a world of
(11:30):
pure spirit. So you don't need any food at
all. It's about our spirituality, our
highest selves. When we're not necessarily
thinking about our bodies. How we just sort of blend in
with everything in the in the world and find balance that way,
you pour all the rest of the redwine into your glass.
(11:51):
So that it's fall. It's completely red, but a
satyr. So you would eat those things
along the way. But you would also probably have
poems from liturgy or the Bible or Jewish thinkers, who care
about the environment or non Jewish thinkers, who care about
the environment. Because it's most satyrs are
(12:11):
also very driven to talk about the environment and to talk
about our connection with natureand how being a caring
responsible. Human means being an active
person who who takes care of theland around us.
(12:40):
How else is to bishvat observed?Is this happen that you sort of
sit with or think about throughout the next day or the
next day's to ruminate on or what, what is your experience
with this particular celebrationin my experience?
It's usually I've been a very active holiday that you have the
(13:01):
seder at night, but then during the day the next day or sometime
of course in our modern world, sometimes we're not able to take
Monday off because of a minor Jewish holiday, right?
But sometime during that day, orthat week, There's planting
trees, there's tidying up a community garden, there's trying
(13:23):
to send money to other places that might need trees.
There's bringing in speakers about Environment.
So it's usually got this very active.
Let's go that kind of element toit.
I love that. It sounds wonderful and it's so
visually Rich, you know, it engages all of the senses, I
(13:45):
would think as a child or as a young person that if it would
have quite an effect on on a person, is there a specific
memory or a specific thing that sort of stands out in your mind
about? Taking all of this in as a
younger person. So I would say that I didn't
really learn about or participate in satyrs until I
(14:08):
was a little bit older, the focus for me while growing up.
I'm I came through the reform movement that is extremely
social justice oriented. So we sort of at the time,
that's not the case anymore, much more integrated now.
But at the time, the focus was planting trees helping the
environment getting out into theWriting and, of course, February
(14:31):
or end of January in New England, that was sometimes hard
to do. So, there was, there were often
drives to buy a tree in Israel and have a tree planted in
Israel or dedicate a tree. That would be planted at a
different time because, of course, the environment and that
this big awareness of the environment that Israel's, you
(14:54):
know, when you can plant a tree in Israel versus when you can
plant a tree in, New England is so Very different.
But I do remember being a kid inSunday school and decorating the
classroom. I do remember, trying fruits and
nuts and things that I hadn't tried before.
As a little kid, I do remember distinctly how the teachers said
(15:17):
here, try carob, it's just like chocolate and the Betrayal that
occurs horrible, because also Court carob, if you just said,
here's a cool. Saying eat it, then I could love
it for what it is. But we definitely did sort of
mini satyrs and there's a blessing for everything that is
(15:38):
always a fun day. But now, the Seder has become.
I think it was a little seen as a bit hippie.
While I was growing up and now it's much more mainstream.
So it's also nice to see how Judaism evolves and Jewish
practice involves within communities.
And so, it's lovely that now, it's a very mainstream thing to
(15:58):
do. So yes, that is a great segue to
today as you celebrate to bishvat, are there any specific
things in your mind that you arethinking about or applying to
this day or contemplating with, with the new year of trees?
What does it mean to you in 2023in 2023?
(16:22):
And it actually so much of what we've learned by doing the
podcast comes to mind. So I definitely I am going to be
with a community doing a Seder, very much looking forward to
that. And then for me personally, I've
been grappling with what I individually can do.
So I have this small little garden plot and I need to tend
(16:44):
to it a little bit. There's a little bit of a mess
right now and it needs a little bit of love, even though it's
dormant. I want to make sure that she's
ready for the spring. There's also a community thing
here of a group that gets together and and picks up litter
everywhere. So seeing what I can do in my
own Community is what's going tobe a top on my mind.
(17:20):
and I think I'm also so sad thatthis is our last episode of this
season, but a small break for now, but it just seems so
relevant somehow to have this beour last episode, being the new
year of trees, which This contemplation, but also this
forward momentum which is reallywonderful and I thought maybe we
(17:42):
could take a minute while we're both here together to just sort
of commemorate and discuss. The the season of tree speech
that we just embarked on, which started with embracing Autumn
and perhaps maybe you could speak a little bit about the
seeds of the Season. We never know exactly where the
(18:03):
season will go when it starts. But there were some things I
know I know that we had discussed that we really wanted
to highlight and to lift up within the podcast and and to
sort of be our guide throughout the trajectory of the interviews
and episodes we were very forward about our themes for
(18:23):
each of the first three seasons.And for this, I recall that we
were really thinking about the divine feminine in the wake of
Roe vs. Wade, being overturned really
thinking of the power of Women their Insight strength, ability
to heal themselves and those around them and their innate
(18:44):
interconnectedness with nature. And so though we never said the
divine feminine out loud, we were really focused on finding
women to elevate to highlight and the work that they're doing.
So we started the season with the story of Demeter and
Persephone, which is such an interesting story especially
(19:06):
when you You started in Autumn, and then look at it in winter at
a time, that is quote, unquote Barren.
But again, over the course of the Season, we've learned time.
And again, that nature is busy even when we can't see it.
So, we ended that episode with Heather Porter who gave us this
gorgeous meditation on sacred rot, the idea that what is
(19:29):
falling, what we need to let go is actually doing work.
That, that is good for the environment and Good for
ourselves. When we let things go and go
through the process of composting and making rich soil,
so that things can grow later. I just thought that was a really
(19:50):
powerful perspective. Yeah.
It was really Illuminating just to see things from a different
vantage point and I love how that Trace is all the way to to
bishvat at this point, then so he's absolutely getting rid of
the Sacred rot. Which again, seems that those
Those two things don't really gotogether perfectly.
(20:10):
And then from there sort of, moving forward to the next
justices in ecosystem, with Kristen Patterson, which I can
say, our is very connected because part of the letting go
of what is not serving became a big theme because Kristen
Patterson was really focused on the interconnectedness of
(20:31):
Reproductive Rights and climate Solutions and saying, here's
what's not working. Let's that go and move towards
what could work that episode also had Christina Eskridge who
took all of her background interests, and abilities and
talents, and insights true to form Elevate theater companies,
(20:52):
this marriage of health and Healthcare and theater and
Community which also she was stepping into working within
that full-time making that taking the leap into To her
making that her main focus in life which was about letting go
of the things in her world in order to see these, these other
(21:17):
passions. Yeah.
And for both of them with Elevate theater and withdraw,
down lift, Kristen had made the statement that generosity is a
mindset and both of them seem toreally live like that, which I
really admire again. This is what we had sought after
is finding people who Make theirworlds better by taking
(21:39):
whatever, they have at their fingertips, their own talents,
their own interest, their time, their experience and creating
this change through. That doesn't require all of
these things that are outside ofourselves.
But we all have that capacity and that ability, we all have
those seeds inside of us which leads us to What Lies Beneath
(22:03):
and thinking about compost and that's what casaya was doing.
Doing was I was creating compostin the Merrimack Valley and
saving us from the amount of methane gas that we could have
experienced and it's also a delightful because it's
connecting us with a part that we don't normally think of, you
(22:23):
know, especially entry speech. We're looking at the tree
itself, what we can see and we're not thinking of the soil
that the tree is in. So that was was fascinating to
think of how do you even start What Lies Beneath and then I
have a log that Vein The Return of spooky trees which is always
one of our favorites fun at thattime of year to get into the
(22:45):
lower and the myth. Yeah, spooky trees.
Oh my gosh, we love spooky trees.
And then we wanted to replay theLiberty Tree episode which also
is very timely and important. Our country sort of going
through these Cycles once again where it seems that we are in
(23:06):
that same. Same place that we were at the
time of the Liberty Tree and everything with the same
challenges and violence and and needing to figure things out.
And it's just always so interesting to see how within
that story that the tree, the symbol of the tree and then who
(23:28):
tells that story is so importantand crucial to understand, and I
was happy that you were able also to voice your concerns.
Cern's, within the world and within your experience, in a way
that we haven't really done with, in this podcast and
looking at the rise of violence and anti-Semitism within this
(23:50):
country. And I was so grateful for that
opportunity. And the way you encouraged me
because it is scary to speak up about these things.
And so I was really grateful forthat.
Well, I think that's sort of what our podcast can do Best In
My Eyes, is it? It's tree speech.
So you know we're looking at current events and things that
(24:12):
are happening right now and processing and digesting and
looking at how how they affect us, how they affect nature, how
we affect nature, and all of these relationships.
So, it's very important. It's very important.
And speaking of learning to use our voices, aren't the next
episode up was a conversation inthe clearing the immersive
(24:36):
installation. Created together and The
Inspirations for that. And how much the concept of
wintering played into that, which, again, sort of continues.
We have introduced these challenges that and our take on
it is to take our lead to take our example from nature.
(24:57):
And to go into these places to heal ourselves and to heal our
communities, and our families. And most of the time, I think
that requires a little bit. Bit of soul-searching or
becoming quiet, and listening for the answers, instead of
maybe being so reactive. It's so vocal.
It takes some inner growth. I think to get through these
(25:21):
places where we find ourselves as people and as a country, and
as a world right now, which the Trees, of course, teach us
trees, teach us. And it was an exciting
opportunity, because you and I both come from the theater world
and For on the podcast, we foundvarious ways to make the podcast
(25:41):
theatrical, but this was the first time that we were able to
collaborate and and sort of approach more physical
theatrical experience. Yeah, it was, it was fun at the
end of the day to figure out howto bring the podcast into a
physical space. And we'll see what happens in
the future as well. We'd love to see some other
(26:04):
installations. So stay tuned.
From there, it was really wonderful to welcome neshama
carlebach up to ya to speak about her story and to do, we
had it done a show on family trees and which is swept.
Yeah, I know. It seems to be the thing that
(26:25):
everyone is taught at some point, this idea of a family
tree. And I like that, we questioned
that structure and then also looked at what that and
examined, what that means, why We use that term, it's very own.
Again, you know, going back to is this, the only system that
works for us and if not, how do we let that go?
(26:46):
How do you create, where do you fit into the narrative?
I mean, it really, it was so interesting how much that
episode resonated with our autumnal equinox episode and the
story of how do you create your own Dynamics, in your own family
story, and maybe make something new?
What sort of A Shinto, you have to those people, your family
(27:11):
members are those people who have come before you as well, as
looking forward to setting the landscape for the type of world
and experience that you want, for those after two to have as
well, this was one episode. That the only thing, I wish I
had thought to say was to ask our listeners.
(27:31):
If they have family tree stories, they would like to
share or Shinzon, the concept offamily trees.
Well, and if they do feel free to contact us through our
website tree speech, podcast.comor if you go to Anchor, if you
listen on that platform, you canalso leave us a voicemail so
(27:54):
that would be fun. Sharing a terrible winter
solstice which has sort of become a little bit.
It was our second year. So it's now a tradition of Of
course, I love that type of ear.We let the light in while also
enjoying, we deterring. You know, we're in that frame of
(28:16):
mine so we're going internal. But also noticing the little,
the little bit of more light letting the light in each day
and how to bring that into our lives, learning all the ways
that winter can bring so much joy.
It's such a glorious time of year.
So I really appreciated being able to enjoy the winter
solstice. And to share it with everyone.
(28:38):
It's one of my favorites for sure, me, too, and that leads us
to. I was even thinking about the,
the next episode, The open-air Life.
Today, as it was so-called and Ithought, no, there's no such
thing as, bad weather, only bad clothing.
It's a big only bad preparation bad.
So I got it, you know, the rightsocks.
(29:01):
The right yeah. Everything and I was fine.
It's yes, very enjoyable. And so looking at the Swedish
idea of free Lutz Leaf, which isthe open-air life of being
outside. And then, interviewing Linda
Baker was really a thrill that was really so in such a thrill.
(29:22):
Everyone I told about the book before we even release the
episode was like, oh my gosh, I love that thought and it's such
a, it makes so much sense. And I will say, you know, I'm
already quite a walker. Hiker, but even more so since
that interview since speaking with Linda, now I'm like wow I
haven't been outside enough today.
(29:45):
Let's make that happen. Yeah, she's very inspiring and
the book is beautiful. As you I think I love you
beautiful to touch the illustrations there rest.
Yes, I can't recommend it enough.
It's really a wonderful resource.
So it delightful, I do think that there's so many people who
are waiting for spraying and just to be able to go outside
(30:06):
and enjoy. And appreciate something in any
weather is so important. It's so huge.
I think so often we get into this idea that yes we're waiting
for something or counting down the days or whatever and I don't
I think it's important not to want time to task by so quickly.
I think I think it's important to enjoy wherever you are
(30:26):
whatever time of year and to seeall of the beauty, the light the
possibility within a cold day. Something that I also recognize
that The really made sure she wasn't skipping over which I
appreciate it. Is acknowledging when it's not
safe for people to go out or communities where that might not
be the case clocking, the privilege involved with feeling
(30:50):
safe enough to walk anywhere at any time and I thought that was
really important and that's the other side of that, right?
Is to understand. If we are able to harness and
explore the possibility that that isn't the case for
everyone. Yeah.
So if you have it to be able to work towards these outdoor
(31:12):
spaces, being safe, and accessible and, and for everyone
to be able to wear warm clothes.And to understand that there is
more than enough for everyone. And how can we make sure that
things get to the people that don't have access to them?
Is also part of, I think, what? All of our speakers do within
(31:34):
their lives and their work and also just A constant thing that
needs to be addressed and to it to be looked at very much so
that leads us to to our last episode which was trees with
Megan Buell who started the transgender resource, education
and Enrichment, Services nonprofit in Indiana and saw the
(32:00):
needs for something. Again.
This is void of an area that needed to be addressed.
And she jumped in rolled up her sleeves and made it happen.
And is so inspiring. And also, I just loved when we
sort of found this organization and and saw the tree metaphor
and then again, see how trees are so interrelated in
(32:24):
everything that we do as people they're sort of in our DNA, no
matter what and to be able to interview her and to hear about
the work that she does all over the United States.
It's and that her plans to continue to do that work and to,
to use education, to bring a part or to bring into the world
(32:47):
peace and understanding and better living condition for so
many people is really astounding.
Again is just another example ofhow we all have these stories
and these things that can be shared and can be used to.
Make the world a better place. What the season?
(33:14):
I mean, look at all that. So many inspiring people who
shared so much with us. I think we will always be
grateful to all of our guests for taking their time to sit
with us and to share their stories and experiences and
their inspiration. I look forward to seeing where
(33:34):
the podcast will go further. Let's all take a little break
and regroup and then we'll startup.
Again in the meantime, though, the producer had be must tell
everyone that we do have a patreon page with patreon.
You give little goodies to the wonderful people that contribute
(33:55):
ours. I think our options are like two
dollars or five dollars or ten dollars a month.
So not a huge investment if if you are capable and 100% of that
money, of course. Horse goes to, to producing all
of the things that have to go into bringing this podcast to
life. We've posted a few things, but
(34:17):
we will start having our tree house hangout where we'll meet
and talk about trees and then things that are meaningful to
us. So if anyone feels inclined at
all, please, we'll have a link in our show notes.
But join our patreon page. We're really trying to build a
community of tree-loving Seeing people who love, who also see
(34:40):
the connection of trees, within all of things that are happening
in our world right now. Well, it was a pleasure to
re-interviewing you today. Thank you so much for joining
us. Thank you for joining tree
speech today. Jonathan I love Hearing my line.
(35:01):
He see you in the new season. Hearing my line.
He see you in the new season.
Hello. My name is Dori Robinson and
this is tree speech a podcast where we strive to listen to the
forest through the trees. This week's episode was written
and recorded in Massachusetts onthe native lands of the wabanaki
Confederacy. Penacook, Massachusetts and
Pawtucket people and a New York on the land of the Lenape tribe.
(00:30):
Tribes tree speech is co-writtenand produced by Jonathan Zellner
who will be joining us today. This is the final episode of our
season and we will begin with a discussion of to bishvat the
Jewish New Year of the trees, which began last Sunday evening
at Sunset. We thought this would be the
(00:50):
perfect way to commemorate the close of our fourth season.
And we will also discuss our thoughts on the guests, and
topics that we've covered since we began.
Can this current season last September.
It was absolutely delightful forme to be interviewed by our
producer, Jonathan for this episode, and to discuss with him
to bishvat and this season of trees.
(01:13):
Let's listen. Hello to Dory.
Hi Jonathan it's so nice to see you.
I'm sitting in your seat. I'm not start as you usually do
(01:33):
by saying, thank you for taking time out of your busy day to be
with us. So happy that you're here to
talk about to burst fats and die.
I am excited to speak with you today.
Let's Jump Right In this. Feels like a celebratory
episode, so let's start the festivities is celebratory.
(01:56):
It's so it's so fun when when everyone gets to hear your voice
when we get to have a conversation, let's start, then
I'll just ask you for people whomay not know what is tuba
schwantz to bishvat, is a wonderful Jewish holiday, it's
one of the minor holidays And it's known as the new year of
(02:17):
the trees. It was originally for tithing
purposes. So, basically, in Judaism the
law judaism's, and actually a very agriculturally driven
Community much more so than sometimes we even realize, so
the the laws, the agricultural laws say that you don't pick the
(02:39):
fruit off the tree for the firstthree years of the trees life.
And in the fourth year, you Bring a tithe or bring a bit to
the at the time at the temple tofeed the priests but also the
poor and such. And so the idea was how could
you tell if it was the first three years or the fourth year?
(02:59):
How could you tell you know, who's keeping track of every
single tree and when you plantedit and what counts as the
birthday? And so, they came up with this
idea of having the new year of the Trees of having two bishvat
be the day that all the trees that had Been planted that year.
That becomes their birthday. So that that's when you start
(03:20):
counting their time in existence.
And that's because that's when the sap starts to come into the
three itself. So as you know, I'm in New
England. So it's a time that everything
looks very Barren and you think nothing's going on.
But as we know very well and when we've talked about a lot is
(03:41):
that it's actually a lot of internal work is happening.
So to bishvat started as a holiday about a ties, but then
began to evolve in beside that the 15th or 16th century.
A lot of kabbalists in Israel decided to really investigate it
and make it something even bigger.
(04:03):
And so these kabbalists, these Mystics created a Seder for to
bishvat to think about all the different kinds of fruits and
all the different kinds of wine.Wine and all the different kinds
of ways that we connect with nature.
So the Seder breaks into four different parts, and each part
(04:23):
has a different kind of fruit, whether it's soft on the
outside, with a pit on the inside, such as a date or an
orange, that has a rind on the outside and soft on the inside
and all the different ways that that helps us reflect on.
When are we soft on the outside and hard on the inside?
When I re hard on the outside? Outside and soft on the inside.
(04:46):
So it's this really lovely satyrthat many people.
Celebrate and now in modern day,it's more of our birthday or
Arbor Day. So it's a day that Jewish
communities plant trees or send money in order for trees to be
planted where they're needed. So it's just about our continued
(05:06):
connection to Nature and the environment.
It's beautiful. It's very cold in New York City
today. So, The idea that even though
we're all bundled up, not looking at one another screwing
around the streets that the sap is slowly coming into the trees
and that they are coming alive. Celebrating this Reaper, this
(05:29):
new year, I've never attended a satyr.
So could you tell us what that is, referring to what that looks
like? And then, maybe go into, you had
talked about the fruit, the hard, and the softness.
And I'm not sure, also, exactly,That means as it applies to us.
So I'd love to hear more about how this to bishvat is
(05:51):
celebrated. Yeah, it's true.
It is really cold here. And I remember as a child when
we were celebrating to bishvat and like synagogue and whatnot,
and there were all these photos of Israel and date trees, and
pomegranates, and all these warmthings, and we're in February
and were bundled up. And so it was always a very,
(06:11):
very funny moment to eat fruits and nuts and Things that that
aren't really accessible usuallyin February.
So the Seder was created in the 16th century by catalysts and
Mystics and they really focused on imagery and symbolism meant
to Mark, the Four Seasons and inkabbalistic or mystical Theory,
(06:34):
everything's always broken into spheres.
There's a lot of alignment with concepts of chakras and and
these kind of things, they really go very deep and
mystical. Yeah.
Oh, it's beautiful. Um, the Seder is referring to,
it's a meal. Is that right?
Or it's so it's at a dinner table at Sunset which is
determined. Usually the rabbi's would say
(06:57):
when you see three stars in the sky, that's when that's when
it's officially Sunset because how could, how else can you
tell? You know, it's about.
Yes, yes, yes, in the pre-googleworld.
How else are you to know? So you see the three stars?
And then what happens? So seder means order, but it is
(07:18):
referring to a meal. So the order of the meal has,
there's lots of rituals that arein a specific order to take you
on a journey. And so it's split into four
sections, and we start with winter.
So, the first sphere is Asia, which is relationship with land
and place. And so, it's really concrete and
(07:39):
physical. So, you start with white wine
for this because it's the most Barren, the This is really
protection about Shields and defenses and and we think about
what it would take to remove theouter shell.
So fruits are nuts. That might be related, might be
almonds, bananas, coconuts, papayas things where you have to
(08:00):
peel something or break, something open in order to
consume it, asea means actualization, fruits and nuts.
That have a heart outside and a fleshy inside, and they're
supposed to sort of Find us of the ways that we sort of pull
ourselves up. And winter, makes us all feel a
(08:21):
bit dormant and all feel a bit cold.
And so how do we connect with what's hidden inside us and
start with that? So the actualization is a
removing the outer covering or the hard shell to get to the
authentic inauthentic, exactly. And so the next is yet Sierra,
(08:43):
which means formation and It's about relationship with
communities. So again that first one is like
relationship with land in place and being, you know, just sort
of Landing, if you can think of it that way.
And then you'd see a first of all, with the wine, you still
have your white wine. But you add a little bit of red
to it. And that's how you start
bringing yourself to spring. So this is marked by eating
(09:06):
fruits with pits at the center. And what's fun about this is
that pits are often discarded. Like I always bring updates
their sort of the Thing to talk about.
So they're soft on the outside, hard on the, inside the seeds,
on the inside, you throw them away and that's what causes
rebirth. And we eat these fruits to
remind us that flowering trees were once.
(09:27):
Barren, that, that there's a process.
The mystics would say that this is a world of inwardness, of
emotion, a sense of feeling and that what we were protecting
before in the previous fear is part of what's like really,
really important, it's the heart, so some of the things we
would be looking at. Our apricots, avocados cherries,
(09:47):
olives, peaches plums, but againwith that knowledge of there's
soft and fleshy. And what's inside is really so
important because it's that seedthat creates regrowth and
continuation beautiful. Then we get to relationship with
(10:20):
the world which is in the part of the Seder.
It's called Bree I or creation. Actually, the first book of the
Torah of the five books of Mosesor what might be known by
others. As the Old Testament is Genesis
is translated for us, as is about creation, connects to
creation and it's about eating fruits that are entirely edible.
(10:42):
So that's about reminding us of the wholeness of the world with
that, that if everything is soft, then you're more able to
as opposed to winter when you were closed off.
You're now able to open up and and really connect there's no
more protective shells or hard internal elements and so this
could be blackberries, blueberries figs grapes,
(11:06):
strawberries things like that. And of course we've added more
red wine to the white wine. So that we come to summer, we
finish off with a solute which means nobility, but it's really
about our relationship with spirituality.
And there's no fruit involved with this.
So this is really the mystics saying that this is a world of
(11:30):
pure spirit. So you don't need any food at
all. It's about our spirituality, our
highest selves. When we're not necessarily
thinking about our bodies. How we just sort of blend in
with everything in the in the world and find balance that way,
you pour all the rest of the redwine into your glass.
(11:51):
So that it's fall. It's completely red, but a
satyr. So you would eat those things
along the way. But you would also probably have
poems from liturgy or the Bible or Jewish thinkers, who care
about the environment or non Jewish thinkers, who care about
the environment. Because it's most satyrs are
(12:11):
also very driven to talk about the environment and to talk
about our connection with natureand how being a caring
responsible. Human means being an active
person who who takes care of theland around us.
(12:40):
How else is to bishvat observed?Is this happen that you sort of
sit with or think about throughout the next day or the
next day's to ruminate on or what, what is your experience
with this particular celebrationin my experience?
It's usually I've been a very active holiday that you have the
(13:01):
seder at night, but then during the day the next day or sometime
of course in our modern world, sometimes we're not able to take
Monday off because of a minor Jewish holiday, right?
But sometime during that day, orthat week, There's planting
trees, there's tidying up a community garden, there's trying
(13:23):
to send money to other places that might need trees.
There's bringing in speakers about Environment.
So it's usually got this very active.
Let's go that kind of element toit.
I love that. It sounds wonderful and it's so
visually Rich, you know, it engages all of the senses, I
(13:45):
would think as a child or as a young person that if it would
have quite an effect on on a person, is there a specific
memory or a specific thing that sort of stands out in your mind
about? Taking all of this in as a
younger person. So I would say that I didn't
really learn about or participate in satyrs until I
(14:08):
was a little bit older, the focus for me while growing up.
I'm I came through the reform movement that is extremely
social justice oriented. So we sort of at the time,
that's not the case anymore, much more integrated now.
But at the time, the focus was planting trees helping the
environment getting out into theWriting and, of course, February
(14:31):
or end of January in New England, that was sometimes hard
to do. So, there was, there were often
drives to buy a tree in Israel and have a tree planted in
Israel or dedicate a tree. That would be planted at a
different time because, of course, the environment and that
this big awareness of the environment that Israel's, you
(14:54):
know, when you can plant a tree in Israel versus when you can
plant a tree in, New England is so Very different.
But I do remember being a kid inSunday school and decorating the
classroom. I do remember, trying fruits and
nuts and things that I hadn't tried before.
As a little kid, I do remember distinctly how the teachers said
(15:17):
here, try carob, it's just like chocolate and the Betrayal that
occurs horrible, because also Court carob, if you just said,
here's a cool. Saying eat it, then I could love
it for what it is. But we definitely did sort of
mini satyrs and there's a blessing for everything that is
(15:38):
always a fun day. But now, the Seder has become.
I think it was a little seen as a bit hippie.
While I was growing up and now it's much more mainstream.
So it's also nice to see how Judaism evolves and Jewish
practice involves within communities.
And so, it's lovely that now, it's a very mainstream thing to
(15:58):
do. So yes, that is a great segue to
today as you celebrate to bishvat, are there any specific
things in your mind that you arethinking about or applying to
this day or contemplating with, with the new year of trees?
What does it mean to you in 2023in 2023?
(16:22):
And it actually so much of what we've learned by doing the
podcast comes to mind. So I definitely I am going to be
with a community doing a Seder, very much looking forward to
that. And then for me personally, I've
been grappling with what I individually can do.
So I have this small little garden plot and I need to tend
(16:44):
to it a little bit. There's a little bit of a mess
right now and it needs a little bit of love, even though it's
dormant. I want to make sure that she's
ready for the spring. There's also a community thing
here of a group that gets together and and picks up litter
everywhere. So seeing what I can do in my
own Community is what's going tobe a top on my mind.
(17:20):
and I think I'm also so sad thatthis is our last episode of this
season, but a small break for now, but it just seems so
relevant somehow to have this beour last episode, being the new
year of trees, which This contemplation, but also this
forward momentum which is reallywonderful and I thought maybe we
(17:42):
could take a minute while we're both here together to just sort
of commemorate and discuss. The the season of tree speech
that we just embarked on, which started with embracing Autumn
and perhaps maybe you could speak a little bit about the
seeds of the Season. We never know exactly where the
(18:03):
season will go when it starts. But there were some things I
know I know that we had discussed that we really wanted
to highlight and to lift up within the podcast and and to
sort of be our guide throughout the trajectory of the interviews
and episodes we were very forward about our themes for
(18:23):
each of the first three seasons.And for this, I recall that we
were really thinking about the divine feminine in the wake of
Roe vs. Wade, being overturned really
thinking of the power of Women their Insight strength, ability
to heal themselves and those around them and their innate
(18:44):
interconnectedness with nature. And so though we never said the
divine feminine out loud, we were really focused on finding
women to elevate to highlight and the work that they're doing.
So we started the season with the story of Demeter and
Persephone, which is such an interesting story especially
(19:06):
when you You started in Autumn, and then look at it in winter at
a time, that is quote, unquote Barren.
But again, over the course of the Season, we've learned time.
And again, that nature is busy even when we can't see it.
So, we ended that episode with Heather Porter who gave us this
gorgeous meditation on sacred rot, the idea that what is
(19:29):
falling, what we need to let go is actually doing work.
That, that is good for the environment and Good for
ourselves. When we let things go and go
through the process of composting and making rich soil,
so that things can grow later. I just thought that was a really
(19:50):
powerful perspective. Yeah.
It was really Illuminating just to see things from a different
vantage point and I love how that Trace is all the way to to
bishvat at this point, then so he's absolutely getting rid of
the Sacred rot. Which again, seems that those
Those two things don't really gotogether perfectly.
(20:10):
And then from there sort of, moving forward to the next
justices in ecosystem, with Kristen Patterson, which I can
say, our is very connected because part of the letting go
of what is not serving became a big theme because Kristen
Patterson was really focused on the interconnectedness of
(20:31):
Reproductive Rights and climate Solutions and saying, here's
what's not working. Let's that go and move towards
what could work that episode also had Christina Eskridge who
took all of her background interests, and abilities and
talents, and insights true to form Elevate theater companies,
(20:52):
this marriage of health and Healthcare and theater and
Community which also she was stepping into working within
that full-time making that taking the leap into To her
making that her main focus in life which was about letting go
of the things in her world in order to see these, these other
(21:17):
passions. Yeah.
And for both of them with Elevate theater and withdraw,
down lift, Kristen had made the statement that generosity is a
mindset and both of them seem toreally live like that, which I
really admire again. This is what we had sought after
is finding people who Make theirworlds better by taking
(21:39):
whatever, they have at their fingertips, their own talents,
their own interest, their time, their experience and creating
this change through. That doesn't require all of
these things that are outside ofourselves.
But we all have that capacity and that ability, we all have
those seeds inside of us which leads us to What Lies Beneath
(22:03):
and thinking about compost and that's what casaya was doing.
Doing was I was creating compostin the Merrimack Valley and
saving us from the amount of methane gas that we could have
experienced and it's also a delightful because it's
connecting us with a part that we don't normally think of, you
(22:23):
know, especially entry speech. We're looking at the tree
itself, what we can see and we're not thinking of the soil
that the tree is in. So that was was fascinating to
think of how do you even start What Lies Beneath and then I
have a log that Vein The Return of spooky trees which is always
one of our favorites fun at thattime of year to get into the
(22:45):
lower and the myth. Yeah, spooky trees.
Oh my gosh, we love spooky trees.
And then we wanted to replay theLiberty Tree episode which also
is very timely and important. Our country sort of going
through these Cycles once again where it seems that we are in
(23:06):
that same. Same place that we were at the
time of the Liberty Tree and everything with the same
challenges and violence and and needing to figure things out.
And it's just always so interesting to see how within
that story that the tree, the symbol of the tree and then who
(23:28):
tells that story is so importantand crucial to understand, and I
was happy that you were able also to voice your concerns.
Cern's, within the world and within your experience, in a way
that we haven't really done with, in this podcast and
looking at the rise of violence and anti-Semitism within this
(23:50):
country. And I was so grateful for that
opportunity. And the way you encouraged me
because it is scary to speak up about these things.
And so I was really grateful forthat.
Well, I think that's sort of what our podcast can do Best In
My Eyes, is it? It's tree speech.
So you know we're looking at current events and things that
(24:12):
are happening right now and processing and digesting and
looking at how how they affect us, how they affect nature, how
we affect nature, and all of these relationships.
So, it's very important. It's very important.
And speaking of learning to use our voices, aren't the next
episode up was a conversation inthe clearing the immersive
(24:36):
installation. Created together and The
Inspirations for that. And how much the concept of
wintering played into that, which, again, sort of continues.
We have introduced these challenges that and our take on
it is to take our lead to take our example from nature.
(24:57):
And to go into these places to heal ourselves and to heal our
communities, and our families. And most of the time, I think
that requires a little bit. Bit of soul-searching or
becoming quiet, and listening for the answers, instead of
maybe being so reactive. It's so vocal.
It takes some inner growth. I think to get through these
(25:21):
places where we find ourselves as people and as a country, and
as a world right now, which the Trees, of course, teach us
trees, teach us. And it was an exciting
opportunity, because you and I both come from the theater world
and For on the podcast, we foundvarious ways to make the podcast
(25:41):
theatrical, but this was the first time that we were able to
collaborate and and sort of approach more physical
theatrical experience. Yeah, it was, it was fun at the
end of the day to figure out howto bring the podcast into a
physical space. And we'll see what happens in
the future as well. We'd love to see some other
(26:04):
installations. So stay tuned.
From there, it was really wonderful to welcome neshama
carlebach up to ya to speak about her story and to do, we
had it done a show on family trees and which is swept.
Yeah, I know. It seems to be the thing that
(26:25):
everyone is taught at some point, this idea of a family
tree. And I like that, we questioned
that structure and then also looked at what that and
examined, what that means, why We use that term, it's very own.
Again, you know, going back to is this, the only system that
works for us and if not, how do we let that go?
(26:46):
How do you create, where do you fit into the narrative?
I mean, it really, it was so interesting how much that
episode resonated with our autumnal equinox episode and the
story of how do you create your own Dynamics, in your own family
story, and maybe make something new?
What sort of A Shinto, you have to those people, your family
(27:11):
members are those people who have come before you as well, as
looking forward to setting the landscape for the type of world
and experience that you want, for those after two to have as
well, this was one episode. That the only thing, I wish I
had thought to say was to ask our listeners.
(27:31):
If they have family tree stories, they would like to
share or Shinzon, the concept offamily trees.
Well, and if they do feel free to contact us through our
website tree speech, podcast.comor if you go to Anchor, if you
listen on that platform, you canalso leave us a voicemail so
(27:54):
that would be fun. Sharing a terrible winter
solstice which has sort of become a little bit.
It was our second year. So it's now a tradition of Of
course, I love that type of ear.We let the light in while also
enjoying, we deterring. You know, we're in that frame of
(28:16):
mine so we're going internal. But also noticing the little,
the little bit of more light letting the light in each day
and how to bring that into our lives, learning all the ways
that winter can bring so much joy.
It's such a glorious time of year.
So I really appreciated being able to enjoy the winter
solstice. And to share it with everyone.
(28:38):
It's one of my favorites for sure, me, too, and that leads us
to. I was even thinking about the,
the next episode, The open-air Life.
Today, as it was so-called and Ithought, no, there's no such
thing as, bad weather, only bad clothing.
It's a big only bad preparation bad.
So I got it, you know, the rightsocks.
(29:01):
The right yeah. Everything and I was fine.
It's yes, very enjoyable. And so looking at the Swedish
idea of free Lutz Leaf, which isthe open-air life of being
outside. And then, interviewing Linda
Baker was really a thrill that was really so in such a thrill.
(29:22):
Everyone I told about the book before we even release the
episode was like, oh my gosh, I love that thought and it's such
a, it makes so much sense. And I will say, you know, I'm
already quite a walker. Hiker, but even more so since
that interview since speaking with Linda, now I'm like wow I
haven't been outside enough today.
(29:45):
Let's make that happen. Yeah, she's very inspiring and
the book is beautiful. As you I think I love you
beautiful to touch the illustrations there rest.
Yes, I can't recommend it enough.
It's really a wonderful resource.
So it delightful, I do think that there's so many people who
are waiting for spraying and just to be able to go outside
(30:06):
and enjoy. And appreciate something in any
weather is so important. It's so huge.
I think so often we get into this idea that yes we're waiting
for something or counting down the days or whatever and I don't
I think it's important not to want time to task by so quickly.
I think I think it's important to enjoy wherever you are
(30:26):
whatever time of year and to seeall of the beauty, the light the
possibility within a cold day. Something that I also recognize
that The really made sure she wasn't skipping over which I
appreciate it. Is acknowledging when it's not
safe for people to go out or communities where that might not
be the case clocking, the privilege involved with feeling
(30:50):
safe enough to walk anywhere at any time and I thought that was
really important and that's the other side of that, right?
Is to understand. If we are able to harness and
explore the possibility that that isn't the case for
everyone. Yeah.
So if you have it to be able to work towards these outdoor
(31:12):
spaces, being safe, and accessible and, and for everyone
to be able to wear warm clothes.And to understand that there is
more than enough for everyone. And how can we make sure that
things get to the people that don't have access to them?
Is also part of, I think, what? All of our speakers do within
(31:34):
their lives and their work and also just A constant thing that
needs to be addressed and to it to be looked at very much so
that leads us to to our last episode which was trees with
Megan Buell who started the transgender resource, education
and Enrichment, Services nonprofit in Indiana and saw the
(32:00):
needs for something. Again.
This is void of an area that needed to be addressed.
And she jumped in rolled up her sleeves and made it happen.
And is so inspiring. And also, I just loved when we
sort of found this organization and and saw the tree metaphor
and then again, see how trees are so interrelated in
(32:24):
everything that we do as people they're sort of in our DNA, no
matter what and to be able to interview her and to hear about
the work that she does all over the United States.
It's and that her plans to continue to do that work and to,
to use education, to bring a part or to bring into the world
(32:47):
peace and understanding and better living condition for so
many people is really astounding.
Again is just another example ofhow we all have these stories
and these things that can be shared and can be used to.
Make the world a better place. What the season?
(33:14):
I mean, look at all that. So many inspiring people who
shared so much with us. I think we will always be
grateful to all of our guests for taking their time to sit
with us and to share their stories and experiences and
their inspiration. I look forward to seeing where
(33:34):
the podcast will go further. Let's all take a little break
and regroup and then we'll startup.
Again in the meantime, though, the producer had be must tell
everyone that we do have a patreon page with patreon.
You give little goodies to the wonderful people that contribute
(33:55):
ours. I think our options are like two
dollars or five dollars or ten dollars a month.
So not a huge investment if if you are capable and 100% of that
money, of course. Horse goes to, to producing all
of the things that have to go into bringing this podcast to
life. We've posted a few things, but
(34:17):
we will start having our tree house hangout where we'll meet
and talk about trees and then things that are meaningful to
us. So if anyone feels inclined at
all, please, we'll have a link in our show notes.
But join our patreon page. We're really trying to build a
community of tree-loving Seeing people who love, who also see
(34:40):
the connection of trees, within all of things that are happening
in our world right now. Well, it was a pleasure to
re-interviewing you today. Thank you so much for joining
us. Thank you for joining tree
speech today. Jonathan I love Hearing my line.
(35:01):
He see you in the new season. Hearing my line.
He see you in the new season.
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