June 2, 2025 • 46 mins
What happens after you've "made it" to that coveted leadership position?
This question haunts many emerging leaders who suddenly find themselves at a plateau, uncertain about their next move. Product Leader Coach Tami Reiss brings refreshing clarity to this leadership conundrum, offering a powerful framework that can transform how you approach your career journey. Having navigated from physical therapist aspirant to nonprofit consultant to tech company CEO by age 33, Tami understands firsthand the complexities of charting an authentic leadership path.
At the heart of her approach are three deceptively simple questions that can help you navigate any career crossroads: Where do you want to go? Where are you now? And what should you do next? These questions shift your focus from merely reacting to opportunities to thoughtfully considering how each move aligns with your deeper goals and values. As Tami explains, we typically waste energy on feasibility questions (Can I do this?) when we should be asking valuability questions (Does this move me toward my goals?).
Through practical exercises like mapping your "perfect day" and seeking honest feedback from those who know you best, you can gain the clarity needed to make decisions that align with your authentic self. Her refreshing perspective reminds us that with careers spanning 40-50 years, there's always time to pivot, learn, and grow in new directions.
Tami’s Episode Links:
1. LinkedIn: Connect on LinkedIn
2. Website: tamireiss.com
Tami’s Recommended Book/Movie/Podcast List:
Movies:
1. A Bug's Life
2. Good Will Hunting
3. Forest Gump
Podcasts:
1. This is Product Management
3. Freakonomics Radio
Books:
1. Inspired + Empowered by Marty Cagan
2. Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
3. The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Simon Kardynal (00:07):
I would like to begin this episode by
acknowledging that I am locatedin Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and
I am privileged and honoured tolive and learn on the unceded,
unsurrendered territory of theAnishinaabeg Algonquin Nation.
Glen (00:24):
Hello, you're listening to Trench Leadership
From the Front, a show foremerging leaders from all
professions to hear from otherleaders who have led from the
front, made the mistakes, hadthe triumphs and are still
learning along the way.
Produced by Jennifer Lee atit's a Legit Business, a podcast
(00:44):
launch and management company.
And now here's your host, SimonKardynal.
Simon Kardynal (00:55):
Hello and welcome to Trench Leadership
Podcast From the Front, a showfor emerging leaders.
For many of us, getting into aleadership position is the first
step of having made it withfinger quotations, often with
the goal of becoming a leader asthat career goal.
But what happens when you'vegotten to this point?
Where do you go next?
(01:16):
How can you maximize yourmoment?
In this episode, you'll hearfrom Tammi Reiss, a product
leader coach, who will offeradvice for emerging leaders to
make the most of their firstleadership role.
Tammi will also talk about howemerging leaders can realize
their long-term goals.
Ensuring the journey is the onewe want to take.
Well, folks, as always, I havethe guest here and I'd like to
(01:40):
go ahead and say hi to Tammi.
Hey, Tammi, how's it going?
Tammi Reiss (01:43):
Good.
How are you, Simon?
Simon Kardynal (01:44):
Oh, fantastic.
We've been working a little bitto get this together and thank
you so much for your patience toget us to this point, but here
we are, we made it here.
This is going to be a lot of fun, but before we get into it, I
would like to do a visualinterpretation, and for myself.
I have my microphone in frontof me.
I'm wearing my black golf shirtwith the Red Trench Leadership
(02:06):
logo over my heart.
My background is a virtualbackground of a stone wall with
the Trench Leadership logohanging.
It is white with a purple glowaround it, the irony being that
the logo is actually meant to bered, but that's what happens
when you order something onAmazon.
What can you do?
So these things happen.
Tammy, would you like to take amoment and introduce yourself
(02:27):
and give us your visualinterpretation?
Tammi Reiss (02:30):
Absolutely, and as somebody who sits on a board for
a nonprofit that is all aboutdisability inclusion, I love
that this is something thatwe're doing.
I've never been asked to do itbefore in any of my other
podcasts and I'm going to try toencourage other people to do it
.
You're going to start amovement, Simon.
Simon Kardynal (02:46):
Fantastic, I'm happy to hear it.
Tammi Reiss (02:48):
Hi everybody.
I'm speaking to you from Miami,Florida, and I have a virtual
background as well.
I'm not wearing glasses, but Iam wearing a very lovely gold
chain with some circles on it,and my virtual background looks
like an office with a white wall, a bit of industrial space.
And then I have this cutelittle black inset here which
(03:11):
says product leader, coach,which is my company name, and
then it says focus on yourstrengths, advance towards your
goals, which is my tagline.
Simon Kardynal (03:21):
Great Well.
Thanks so much for that, and Iappreciate taking the time for
that.
Tammi Reiss (03:34):
I am wondering, before we get right into our
conversation, would you mindtaking a couple of minutes and
just telling us a little bitabout yourself, your journey and
really how we got to this point?
Like to be called.
Ever since I went to UCLA as anundergraduate, that's what I've
been called, but when I movedto New York, people used to call
me Tammy from LA, and I wouldhave to explain that I was Tammi
from Miami.
(03:54):
And now that I'm back here.
I can't use that as often, but Ihave a very weird background in
the nature of where I startedis not where I am now.
I have a degree in physiology.
I was supposed to be a physicaltherapist.
I then went to business schoolto learn how to run my own
clinic, and while I was there Ilearned that I actually wanted
(04:16):
to help people in other ways andI wanted to be a nonprofit
consultant, and so I worked forsome big brand name nonprofits
for a while, and then I realizedthat in order to teach them how
to work like a corporation, Ineeded to actually work at a
corporation, and so I did abunch of that, and I was lucky
enough to be tapped forsomething called product
(04:38):
management, which I summarize asthe group of people in an
organization that decide what todo next, and I'm very good at
making decisions.
It turns out, and I have spentthe last 18 or so years in
product management at techcompanies, either as a
consultant teaching people howto do it, an educator teaching
(04:59):
people how to do it, or actuallydoing it myself in-house at
some really wonderful companiesand some less than wonderful
companies, and around two yearsago I hung up my own shingle to
be product leader coach, whichmeans that I'm an executive
coach for product leaders attech companies and I help them
realize how to do their jobsbetter or how to present
(05:20):
something better, because thehigher up you get in your career
, the less you can turn to yourboss for help or the less you
want to because it mightinfluence their confidence in
you.
And so I get to be this awesomesounding board and coach for
some really excellent, fantasticproduct leaders around the
world.
I have clients all over theworld and the way I got to be
(05:42):
talking with Simon is that myfriend, mark, who I've
collaborated with a fewdifferent times, wrote a
fantastic book and he was aguest on Simon's podcast and he
recommended me to be the same,and I enjoyed my initial
conversation with Simon enoughto spend more time with him and
more time with all of you.
Simon Kardynal (06:01):
Well, thanks so much for that, and we did have a
fantastic chat.
You know, sometimes you canjust kind of tell when people
are going to click, and we, weended up speaking, I think, well
beyond the 30 minutes we hadoriginally set for, and that's.
That's part of the thing.
I think is your.
We just kind of blew past thatand didn't even realize it, if
memory serves.
So, it was great, yeah,absolutely, absolutely.
And you know I I love the howyour background has tied you
(06:24):
towards going to becoming this aproduct leader, coach, like
that and how to be able to moveinto those things, because quite
often we and quite often we getto these roles inside large
organizations especially if it'sa large organization, it's it's
safe to be there and go up thatchain of command or that, that
corporate structure, becauseit's easier to know you have the
(06:45):
safety to stay there andthere's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not suggesting good or bad,I'm just saying that's a fact.
Um, I'm not really bad, by theway yeah, yeah, it is
challenging, so, uh, you know.
I'm wondering what happens,though, whether or not we decide
to stay inside an organizationor if we stretch our legs,
because at some point in time,especially with those first
(07:07):
leadership promotions, we'regoing to ask ourselves great, I
made it here, but now what?
Where do I go?
What's next?
You know, what do we do?
Tammi Reiss (07:14):
Well, you try being a CEO at 33, because that's
what I was.
And when I had that companysold and I was then looking for
a new job, I was almostunhirable because I was looking
for mid-level manager positions.
And who believed that a CEOdidn't want to be a CEO again?
(07:37):
And I really did not want to bea CEO at that exact moment.
Simon Kardynal (07:43):
Oh yeah, I couldn't imagine.
Tammi Reiss (07:44):
Yeah, so, um, but I think my one of my favorite
moments was, uh, the person whoended up hiring me, a woman
named Camila.
When she interviewed me, shesaid have you ever managed
anybody before?
And I just paused and she saidwell, that's a dumb question.
You are a CEO.
Obviously you've managed peoplebefore.
A CEO, obviously you've managedpeople before, and I was like
(08:07):
yeah, that's just once or twicea little tiny bit of experience.
It was a small company.
Right, there were 12 or sopeople, so it wasn't like I was
CEO of this huge conglomerate,but nonetheless I had definitely
managed people and profit andlosses and PNLs and had to fire
people and had to hire peopleand had to do lots of strategic
(08:27):
thinking to get a company out ofthe hole.
Simon Kardynal (08:30):
So, yeah, Well, and that's a big part of it, I
know, I do wonder and I don'tknow.
I genuinely don't know.
Ceo of a small company, ceo ofa large company?
There's probably differentresponsibilities but, at the end
of the day, ceoresponsibilities are CEO
responsibilities.
There has to be many thingsthat are going to roll across
each other.
Tammi Reiss (08:51):
Yeah, I don't think most CEOs of large companies
take the subway down to one oftheir clients because they owe
them $120,000 and they weren'tgoing to make payroll without
that $120,000.
Simon Kardynal (09:06):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Yeah, definitely a littledifferent.
Tammi Reiss (09:10):
Sure, as I led, you want to talk about trench
leadership, that is, leadershipin the trenches getting on the
subway to knock on theaccounting accounts receivable
door of a multi-million dollarcorporation to say yeah, yeah,
owe us some money, we'll takethe check, please okay, okay,
yeah, so definitely tactical inin its nature, which is ironic
(09:33):
because a lot of times, peoplethink, oh, CEO, wow, you must be
able to make there and do that.
Simon Kardynal (09:38):
That person has made it, you know, they're there
, they've got it, they're donehaving to go and go get checks
and those different types ofthings.
Tammi Reiss (09:45):
Uh, for, a good friend of mine owns a custom
bike, uh, refinishing business,and the assumption is, though,
you own a business, you must berich no or or not the case, or
you're trying to make ends meet,you know, and part of running a
business is the weight of allof your employees on you.
You have to make thesedecisions that hopefully grow
(10:12):
the business, that hopefullykeep bringing customers in, that
hopefully keep bringing moneyin, that not too much money goes
out so that you can still paypayroll and otherwise.
And people rely on that fortheir rent money, to buy food,
to take care of their family, togo on vacation, to have health
care, and that's all on you.
(10:33):
And a lot of people don'tunderstand the responsibility
leaders walk around with ontheir shoulders at all times.
Simon Kardynal (10:42):
It's not an easy job, oh yeah yeah, no, it
really isn't, and I think that'ssomething in the spirit of what
we're talking about here,something that for leaders to
think about when they want tostrive to get to these positions
and they find themselves there.
The first question that seemsto me would be the a good one to
ask ourselves introspectivelyis you know, what do I want to
do next?
(11:02):
And then, when we've askedourselves that question, be
honest, like does that makesense at all?
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Tammi Reiss (11:09):
Yeah, so I actually say there are three questions
that solve all problems.
I call them, the only threequestions you ever need.
And what should I do next isoften where people start the
question, but that's actually inmy mind.
The third question and thefirst question should be where
do I want to go?
What is my goal?
Long-term thinking, three tofive years out, five to ten
(11:33):
years out.
What are my values?
What kind of balance am Ilooking for in my life?
What kind of adventures do Iwant in my career?
What kind of experiences do Iwant to be able to be available
to me?
And when you start there, ithelps really frame any of the
(11:53):
rest of the decisions you haveto make, because you can say is
this going to help me get closerto my goal?
And so the next question iswhere am I right now?
Right, because in order to knowhow far you are from your goal,
you got to know where you are.
And so we start out with wheredo I want to go.
We then add on where am I rightnow?
(12:15):
And then ask where should I gonext?
And you evaluate what is thebest next step that helps you
get closer to the goal fromwhere you currently are.
And I call them where to?
Where now, where next?
Simon Kardynal (12:32):
Thank you so much for that.
I'm curious did you come upwith these three questions based
off of the experience that youhad throughout your career, or
things you observed?
A little bit of blend ofeverything.
How did they come about?
Tammi Reiss (12:42):
So, as a product manager I mentioned earlier my
job is to figure out what to donext, and as a product leader,
your job is to figure out whatto do next.
And as a product leader, yourjob is to figure out what to do
next for a lot of things, andnowadays in product management
we talk a lot about outcomesover output, that you want to be
aligned with goals, etc.
At which point we have, I ask alot of people what are your
(13:04):
goals?
And so those two became reallycrucial.
And then I had the pleasure ofworking with Melissa Perry, who
wrote a book called Escaping theBuild Trap, and she talks a lot
about something called thecurrent state and how it's
important for you to quantifyand qualify your current state
(13:24):
before making a decision.
And one of the things I did withMelissa was I was leading a
training for her product calledProduct Institute, and I was
doing corporate training forbrand new product managers that
were part of an associateproduct management company at a
brand I promise all of you knowand one of the largest companies
(13:44):
in the world, and I wasexplaining to them this goals
thing and current state thing,and I used the analogy of Google
Maps and I said it's prettymuch like Google Maps.
You have to set yourdestination.
That's the first question itasks you, and then it says where
are you, where do you want usto map you from?
(14:06):
And it defaults to your currentlocation, and then it gives you
options on how to get there,because, in reality, there are
lots of options on how toachieve your goals, and, more
often than not in life, peopleare offered an option and they
then ask feasibility questionsabout how can I make this happen
(14:29):
.
Does this work with this?
Can I juggle this witheverything else?
As opposed to valuabilityquestions, is this something
that helps me get to my goals?
Is this something that I willvalue?
Is this something that addsvalue to my life?
As opposed to can it be done?
Simon Kardynal (14:48):
And so that was where I came up with the three
questions that's interesting,and what I hear in all of that
and correct me if I'm wrong isit's these questions are
designed to have the person havean honest look at themselves,
and honesty is not a new concept.
We're not going to be like, ohbe honest, I wish I'd heard of
that before.
It's a it's a thing, but inreality of it is quite often
it's difficult.
Be honest, I wish I'd heard ofthat before.
(15:08):
It's a thing, but in reality ofit is quite often it's
difficult to be honest,especially depending on whatever
the culture is.
I know for myself when I was inthe military, one of the metrics
of perceived success was to goup the rank structure, and if
someone didn't want to go up therank structure, then they were
perceived as not beingsuccessful as an example.
But if someone was okay withthat, who are we to judge that?
(15:31):
It's that honesty and it's aninteresting spot to be at when
we're able to actually be thatmore honest, that much more
honest with ourselves.
Do you have any thoughts onthat at all?
Tammi Reiss (15:41):
Yeah, my first job at a nonprofit.
As I mentioned earlier, I was aprogram manager, which pretty
much means I was a event planner, fundraiser, and the leadership
of this large nationalnonprofit was very impressed
with certain things I was doingand they started grooming me
towards becoming an executivedirector of one of the regional
(16:03):
offices.
And I said to them at somepoint I look at what my boss
does, this regional directorposition.
I don't want to do that job.
That job isn't of interest tome.
It's just a lot of reportingand spreadsheets of things that
were done.
You're not reaching thecommunity anymore.
You're not doing thefundraising actively anymore.
(16:25):
It's a lot of pure managementand that's not what I wanted.
And they were very surprisedbecause that was rising up the
ranks.
And I said that isn't thefundraising actively anymore,
it's a lot of pure managementand that's not what I wanted.
And they were very surprisedbecause that was rising up the
ranks and I said that isn't thepath I want.
And I've forged my own path andthere were many, many years
where my parents, among others,were not sure I would make
anything of my life Because Ihad gone through so many jobs
(16:48):
and so many lateral moves thatit was like people quantify or
qualify success as moving up,when in reality, success should
be finding a place where yourstrengths can be leveraged for
good and you feel good aboutwhat you're doing at the end of
the day.
So, as an executive coach, do Imake as much money as I did
(17:11):
when I was a vice president ofproduct?
Absolutely not.
But do I feel great about theimpact I can have on my clients'
lives 100%?
Do I feel great about the factthat I can actually hang out
with my kids 100%?
Do I feel awesome about thefact that I get to travel to
(17:31):
conferences and speak andinspire people with speeches
like the only three questions,100%?
This is what brings me joy andthat's so much more important
than other people externallysaying you've made it or you've
been successful.
Simon Kardynal (17:50):
And that's a great point you brought up
talking about joy.
The fact of the matter is wespend a big part of our waking
day on our careers, on whateverit is to do, whatever we need to
do.
So if we're able to find somejoy in that, that's great,
that's even better.
Sometimes that's just not thecase.
Sometimes that joy, that job wehave, that has, all that joy
that's going to go away and it'sall about adjusting it.
(18:12):
I know for myself.
I always knew I wanted to be inthe military, and longtime
listeners of the podcast willhave heard the story numerous
times about how, after 26 yearsof doing fairly well in the
Canadian forces, it was time forme to do something else,
because that joy that I wasgetting of being in the forces
just simply wasn't there anymore.
It was time to do somethingelse.
So I completely stepped awayfrom the military for a little
(18:34):
over two years, and now I'veactually, with that time I was
actually able to.
I am able to work in themilitary as a reservist, so I
still get to do the parts that Ienjoy doing and I still have
other things that I'm able tofollow and have passion in
multiple different areas, andit's about finding the way to
find those balances and havingthe patience to have a real look
(18:56):
at it.
I think patience a lot of timescomes with being honest.
I think they're intertwined.
Do you have any thoughts onthat at all?
Tammi Reiss (19:02):
100 percent.
But the thing that's coming tomind is that, on the basis that
this podcast is about leadership, so much of a role of
leadership is to help inspirethe people on your team and the
people you're leading to feeljoy in their work, to find
meaning in their work, to findbalance in their lives and to
(19:22):
help them find a role that'sgoing to help them feel
impactful and joyful andmasterful and all the things
that help people feel good abouttheir day.
Because, you mentioned, wededicate a large portion of our
day to our work life.
My dad often says your life,your time on earth, is pretty
(19:44):
much divided into three thingsyour time with your family and
friends, your time at work andsleeping.
And if you're not enjoying yourfamily and friends and you're
not enjoying your job, chancesare you're not sleeping very
well.
Simon Kardynal (20:03):
Yeah, it's very true.
Tammi Reiss (20:06):
And so if you're going to put one third of your
life into something, make sureit's something that you can
either feel joyful about theresult of because it's helping
finance your other passions, orthat you actually really feel
great about the work that you'redoing.
You know.
Glen (20:26):
Oh, hello there.
It's Glen, the voiceover artist, and if you're hearing me, that
means we're at the midpoint ofthis episode.
Are you considering startingyour own podcast?
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(20:47):
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(21:08):
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If you want to get started,contact Jennifer at Jennifer at
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Trench Leadership is alwaysstriving to improve our content
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professions, and to do this,your feedback is crucial.
(21:30):
So drop us a note at simonk attrenchleadershipca and let us
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And now back to the show.
Simon Kardynal (21:42):
Yeah, so that's really interesting.
And when we're talking abouthow people and leaders can they
get to that point, they plateaubecause they realized whatever
their their goal was, whateverthat might be, what's next.
How do you have any type ofadvice to help that leader
decide where to go next andmaybe find their new direction?
Tammi Reiss (22:03):
So one of the things I encourage people to do
which I did many, many years agoas part of a group coaching
program that I was a participantin is to invest around a half
hour writing down your perfectday.
Write down from the moment youwake up to you going to bed.
What does your perfect day looklike and it could be a Sunday
(22:23):
or a Wednesday or anything inbetween but really consciously
think about what would a daylook like that at the end of it,
you'd be smiling ear to ear.
Who are you talking to?
Who are you meeting with?
What are you doing?
Where are you?
And start there, because thatis, to a certain degree, of
(22:45):
visioning exercise.
You're envisioning a life thatyou want and so then evaluating
again between the goal and yourcurrent state, like where are
there gaps?
Are there people you want to bespending more time with?
Are there people you want to bespending less time with?
Right, are there things youwant to be doing more of or less
(23:05):
of?
In that perfect day, were youmore active than you currently
are?
Are you more sedentary?
I don't know, but whatever thatis, figure that out.
And I think another thing thatcan be really helpful is talking
to the people who know you.
Talk to your partner, talk toyour children, talk to your
parents, talk to your reallygood friends about what they
(23:27):
think will help find you joy.
I have a client whose husbandsaid to her, like I don't think
you're ever going to be happy ata company.
And I know my husband said tome I don't think you're ever
going to be happy with a bossbecause I really don't like
actually having a boss.
But he's right, I don't reallyenjoy having a boss.
(23:49):
It's not that I don't learnfrom bosses.
I just very often move on andI'm like, okay, like let's,
let's do something next.
And so I think that very often,the people closest to us see
things that we're not beingtruthful to ourselves about,
like you were saying right, andthey, to a certain degree, speak
truth to power, right, and theytell you the things that you
(24:12):
need to hear and they say to youI saw you smiling ear to ear
when you were doing X.
Do you remember when you hadthis job and you used to come
home so excited and tell mestories about this?
Maybe you should do somethingrelated to that, and relying on
the people around us as soundingboards and as feedback loops
(24:38):
really can be very helpful infiguring out what to do next.
It's still your choice, right?
I often say, as a coach, I'mgoing to give you advice, but it
has to feel authentic to you.
So if you don't like it, tellme why and I'll give you new
advice.
So whatever advice you'rereceiving, it still always has
to feel authentic to you.
So don't just follow blindlysomething someone else has said,
(25:01):
but use it as an input thathelps you understand what is the
long-term that's going to makeyou happy and then what should
be your next step.
Simon Kardynal (25:15):
And it's for myself it's okay if we don't
know exactly what that is rightaway.
My experiences have been likeoften in the busyness of life
and and in especially in anytype of corporate environment,
there's an almost an expectation, an unsaid expectation, to know
exactly what you want to do andknow all the steps and stick to
that plan, even though oftenthey talk about flexibility, but
(25:36):
in my opinion, very rarely dopeople actually mean that.
Do you have any thoughts?
Tammi Reiss (25:42):
Yeah, absolutely so .
In product, we talk a lot aboutthe lean cycle, which is build
measure learn a lot about thelean cycle, which is build
measure learn.
And when Melissa and I talkabout how to get from your
current state to your goal state, there's a lot of uncertainty
there and it's not going to be alinear path.
Very often, the next step issimply learning something right.
(26:04):
Your current state is notenough knowledge about something
and therefore the next step isget more knowledge, get more
data, interview some people,talk to some people in the field
, talk to a few companies, dosome research, because the
current state isn't only whatyou have, it's also what you
don't have, and very often, whatyou don't have is knowledge,
(26:27):
and so you often have to startthe build measure learn cycle at
learn, because you don'tnecessarily know what to build
and so, similarly, you may noteven know the options out there
to you as to what a next stepcould be, unless you do some
research and talking to peopleand learning, because your
(26:48):
current state is a lack ofknowledge yeah, absolutely.
Simon Kardynal (26:53):
Uh, and on more than one occasion throughout my
career there were certain jobs,certain positions.
I thought, wow, this is goingto be amazing.
I, I can't wait, that's mycareer goal.
And then I'd get in the job andrealize that it's nothing like
I.
I thought it was going to be.
It's kind of like meeting yourhero and it's it's.
They're not that same person,you know.
Yeah, exactly, and I'm like,well, well, shit, now, what
(27:17):
right?
Like what do you do now?
And do you have any type ofadvice for someone that they,
when they experience that typeof moment where they're like, oh
crap.
Tammi Reiss (27:26):
I think, first of all, embrace it as a learning
right.
Right, don't beat yourself up.
You made a mistake or you werewrong, or you went in the wrong
direction.
You learned that wasn't thedirection for you.
That's a positive outcome.
There's a positive outcome to Itook a step and I learned that
wasn't for me.
And actually take a moment toanalyze why that is.
(27:50):
What is it about it that youwere hopeful for?
That is meeting theseexpectations, and where were
there things that you had tomiss?
You know alignment of what itwas actually going to be, and
then say, okay, those are thingsI don't want again.
I don't want to have, I don'twant to work for a company that
(28:14):
does you know work with the CIAor whatever.
It is right or I don't want towork for a boss, that's remote.
Sometimes it's something thatyou don't even realize is going
to be a challenge.
Or I don't want to work for acompany that's in time zones
ahead of me versus behind me orvice versa, right, and there are
all of these things that youcan figure out and really treat
(28:36):
it as a learning experience,because, as I say to my
three-year-old daughter, we makemistakes and then we learn.
Mistakes aren't a bad thing,mistakes are how we learn.
It's the easiest way to learnis to make a misstep, and so, if
you can embrace that you made amisstep because what do you
(28:58):
know?
You're human and we all makemistakes Now you have the
opportunity to learn from it,and that provides you the
opportunity to grow and to geteven closer towards where you
want to go.
But you might take 17 wrongturns along the way, and that's
okay.
Simon Kardynal (29:18):
A big theme for me in life in general is dot,
dot, dot and that's okay.
I say that many, many, manytimes and because it is,
mistakes are okay.
I'm going to switch gears justa little tiny bit because as we
were talking about that, aquestion popped into my mind and
I'm wondering in yourexperience as a coach and I
(29:40):
would imagine that you have hadit seems to me that you would
have had clients who maybe, whenyou're asking them questions,
you're trying to get to helpthem get to their point where
they're being honest withthemselves.
Maybe they're lying not to youbut definitely to themselves,
and you're probably, from theoutside, able to see that.
So I'm curious when you're inthose types of roles, have you
(30:02):
seen any types of similaritiesin people in a broad sense?
To tell when they're lying tothemselves and lying might sound
kind of strong, but maybe notbeing as honest with themselves
about what they want to do.
Are there any type of physicalcues or that type of thing?
Tammi Reiss (30:19):
I am not as good about picking up on body
language, but what I have foundis that very often, when someone
knows that they aren't fullybeing honest, they tend to over
explain, they try to justify andthey they're like, because this
and this and this and theythey'll go into all of these
(30:41):
details that justify somethingthat they know isn't authentic
and isn't a truth.
And then I'll say, OK, well,like, let's piece these pictures
to put these pieces togetheragain.
I don't think A correlates withthese things that I'm seeing.
Right, you told me these otherthings happened and if this were
(31:04):
to be true, those other thingswouldn't have happened.
This actually happenedyesterday with one of my clients
.
So I work with leaders, whichmeans they're often smart,
accomplished people whooccasionally and I would never
fall into this category like tobe right.
Simon Kardynal (31:23):
Don't hear any sarcasm in that one at all.
Tammi Reiss (31:25):
Nope, I hate being right with a passion in that one
at all.
Nope, I hate being right with apassion.
And this particular client wastalking about how they love
being right so much.
Sometimes they push it a littletoo far with other people and
they were beating themselves upfor doing it a few times and I
said don't beat yourself up forthat.
(31:48):
I said first of all, like youwere cognizant in these other
situations, right, like when youknew that behavior wasn't good
cause, you brought me in, youbrought in peers and that's
growth, right.
But you still got a problem andwe still have room to work on
ourselves and we're all inmotion and we're all works in
progress, and so that's okay.
(32:09):
But he was being a little liketoo self-fledgable jury and I
was like no, like you don't haveto beat yourself up.
Sometimes it's a negative,right that?
Like he was beating himself upas to this untruth, that he was
a horrible person who was doingthis all the time, and I was
like that isn't the case either,right?
(32:30):
So sometimes it's, you thinkyou're really wonderful at
something and sometimes it's not.
I had a client who I changed herwhole perspective on the way
(32:50):
she worked and thus she has beenmuch successful but super smart
, super capable person.
And she told me that very oftenwhen she was in a room, someone
would bring up a problem.
She would suggest a solution.
That would be the suggestedsolution and then the question
would be okay, who wants toimplement that solution?
Someone else would raise theirhand and then they would get the
credit for actuallyimplementing the solution.
And I said well, why don't youraise your hand?
And she said I don't want tostep on people's toes.
And I said that's not really areason, right, like, and that's
(33:16):
that's not a truth in the worldthat you're not actually
stepping on someone's toes.
And I I said what can we do tohelp you raise your hand?
And I thought about it for awhile and I coached her for a
while, long enough to knowcertain things that she found
valuable, and I said to her Isaid if you are on that project,
will it be more successful?
And she said yes.
And I said do you bring valueto not just the idea of the
(33:40):
solution but actuallyimplementing it and dealing with
the bumps in the road along theway?
And she said absolutely yes.
And I said great.
So you're not raising your handin order to step on someone's
toes because that isn't yourpersonality, right?
She said no, it's not mypersonality.
I'm not political andaggressive that way.
I said you're going to raiseyour hand because when you
(34:03):
participate in a project, it hasa higher chance of success, and
higher chance of success helpsthe company, it helps everybody
involved and therefore you'renot raising your hand to step on
someone's toes.
You're raising your hand so theproject or the initiative could
have more success.
And then all of a sudden, shesaid oh, and I said yeah,
(34:25):
because you're smart enough andyou're capable enough and you're
organized and you're good atthis, so it's a good thing for
you to be on a team.
And that was reallytransformative for her.
Simon Kardynal (34:38):
And sometimes people just they just need to
hear it.
And when someone is completelyoutside their sphere, completely
impartial, because it's likeanything.
If your mom or your dad saysyou know, you're beautiful, I,
you know, I expect my mother totell me that I'm a good looking
man.
You know, it's my mom right,I'm expecting that, you know.
(34:59):
But if you know someone elsecompletely outside the world
says that it's going to carry abit of different weight or
different perspective, for sure,does that make sense at all
yeah, absolutely, I have a, Ihave a.
Tammi Reiss (35:08):
So the job market right now is very hard for
people in tech.
There have been countlesslayoffs of hundreds of thousands
of people.
So it is a hard job market.
And I have a client who I'mhelping her with promoting
herself towards getting a joband she had two interviews with
two brand name companies thisweek and she said I always don't
(35:28):
make it past the finalinterview, like there's
something that goes wrong.
And I said don't beat yourselfup, there's nothing that goes
wrong, right, like, whateverthey're looking for, at that
point you're one in three people, right, you've got a one in
three trance that every all thestars are gonna align.
And I said to her I said take itas a compliment that you're
even getting to that stage.
(35:49):
You've told me that online onLinkedIn, you can see that this
role had 750 applicants.
So, out of 758 applicants, youwere one of the hundred people
that they actually had a phonecall with her 30 people they had
a phone call with.
And then you were out of thehundred people that they
actually had a phone call withher 30 people they had a phone
call with and then you were outof the 10 people they had a
second phone call with and nowyou're part of the select three
(36:10):
out of the initial 750 peoplewho are getting to go to this
final round.
That is a compliment and thatis an accomplishment, even if
you don't get the job.
And that was like.
I had to say it a few times.
And she still hasn't fullyinternalized it because she's
still afraid she's going to getrejected.
But it's important to havethese outside voices that remind
(36:34):
you you're awesome.
Simon Kardynal (36:38):
Exactly, and I mean, I think it's human nature
to want to safeguard ourselves alittle bit, that fight or
flight instinct that we havejust built into us.
It's a lot of times people willpush towards that negative
outlook.
So if they don't get it, thenthat's okay.
I guess I didn't, I couldn'tget it for whatever reason.
I move on and be disappointed,and that made sense.
(37:00):
I wasn't the right person.
But then when you get it, youcan be pleasantly surprised at
where you got to that point.
And it's interesting becauseoften when we get to those
points then we're looking aroundand we're like, well, great,
now what?
If only I feel like someoneshould do an episode about that
and talk about what do we dowhen we hit to that point?
What?
Tammi Reiss (37:18):
Would someone should totally do that.
How do we decide what to donext?
Simon Kardynal (37:21):
Where do we go with that?
Tammi Reiss (37:22):
Questions that could help us yeah, exactly so I
use very generic uh exampleswhen I give a speech about the
three questions, and one of themis like how do you choose where
to go on vacation?
Because very often someone says, hey, do you want to go to
aruba?
Or hey, do you want to goskiing?
And then it becomes afeasibility question oh, when
can I go skiing?
Do I have the right gear, theright budget?
(37:43):
But instead it should be likewhat kind of vacation am I
looking for?
What are my goals of thisvacation?
Am I trying to visit family?
Am I trying to be cultured?
Am I trying to do somethingwith my children?
Am I trying to get sun, escapethe cold or go to the cold?
Simon Kardynal (37:58):
Do like understand your goals before you
start choosing where you'regoing to go no, absolutely, and
understanding that is importantwhere you want to go and figure
it out from there.
It just kind of makes sense.
I'm wondering.
So how do you have any type ofadvice for people to other than
the three questions where theymight decide what their next
goal could be?
Tammi Reiss (38:20):
I would look at people who inspire you, Right?
I think that's a good place tostart and like do you want to be
them or do you want to workwith them or things like that,
or do things that are similar tothem, but again dissecting it
in the same way we dissectedearlier why a really exciting
job turned out not to be sogreat and what we can learn from
that.
(38:40):
Dissect what it is you likeabout someone that you find
inspiring, right.
Is it because they'reentrepreneurial?
Is it because they're caring?
Is it because they'reempathetic?
Simon Kardynal (38:50):
Is it because they don't care?
Tammi Reiss (38:51):
hey're just free-willing and they just say
whatever they want.
Is it because they'reincredibly rich or that they
have a really big family?
Like what is it that you'reaspiring to right, breaking that
out of what you're looking atand being true to yourself about
what is it that you're aspiringto right, breaking that out of
what you're looking at and beingtrue to yourself about what is
it that you're admiring in thatother person and their life and
(39:12):
hopefully finding a trendamongst the number of people you
admire?
And they don't have to befamous, they could just be
people in your neighborhood thatyou admire.
Simon Kardynal (39:20):
So, yeah, yeah, I love that and I think that's
an important thing is to look atthe others and see what you
like about them and see what you, what, what speaks to you.
I find for myself, you know,when I, when I want, the reason
I wanted to join the military sooften was because my father was
in the military and and Iremember him coming home from
wearing his uniform now and andI think, wow, he's doing
something important.
(39:41):
He gets to, you know, for allthe military's challenges I'm
not going to it's not a shame onyou.
I know what was I thinking andand you know, and I admired the
fact that you know he, Ibelieved he was doing something
very important and that was whyI wanted to join the military,
so I could do something likethat.
And then, you know, when I gotin, I you know this is as a
(40:01):
teenager and then when I finallygot into the military and I was
doing my different things, Iwas telling him, said, you know,
the reason I joined themilitary was because of this,
these reasons, and I'll neverforget he's like, well, okay,
great, but I joined the militarybecause it was a steady job and
and and it gave me a trade.
He's like I wasn't thinkingabout those things and that that
stuck with me for a long timeLike damn it, damn it, damn it,
(40:24):
damn it.
And then after a while Irealized no, regardless of what
I thought, I still thatreasoning for me resonated with
me.
So it was okay.
There was nothing wrong withhim having a different way of
looking at it.
It didn't minimize anythingthat I was doing or what I
wanted to do and why thatmessage still resonated with me
and he was still a part of that.
(40:45):
Do you have any thoughts?
Tammi Reiss (40:48):
You had different goals, but you ended up in the
same place yep fantastic winsuccess either way, you
accomplished your goals right.
It turns out there are lots ofways to accomplish goals and
lots of goals that can beaccomplished by doing the same
thing exactly and, like I saidearlier, I think it comes back
(41:11):
to being flexible and how youget there.
Simon Kardynal (41:13):
Really, that it's.
It's a journey, and then it'snot going to be a straight road,
uh and it's, but we'll getthere you'll get there you'll
make your time and it's sort oflike watching a movie everyone's
gonna have take something elseout of it.
Tammi Reiss (41:27):
You were all sitting in the theater together
and every one of you had aunique experience and every one
of you was something slightlydifferent and therefore, like
when you look at what otherpeople are doing, don't judge
yourself based on that.
Find, as I said, the tidbits ofwhy you look towards that as
aspiration.
Right and whatever.
(41:48):
It was about your dad that youadmired, that he came home and
that he was giving back right,that was the next level of it.
Like that's what you admired,and I'm sure that you could have
become a cop or a firefighterinstead and still emulated that
nature of giving back to yourcommunity.
Military was one way to do itand that was the way you chose,
but your goal was to give backto your community, to serve your
(42:11):
community, and there were manypaths to get there.
Simon Kardynal (42:15):
Yeah, absolutely , Absolutely Well, thank you so
much for that.
This feels like a nice time toask you.
Hey, do you have any finalthoughts before we move into the
lightning round?
Tammi Reiss (42:27):
I think I say this a lot it's our careers are long.
Our lives are much longer thanthey have historically ever been
.
You're going to be working forsomething like 40, 50 years.
Do not feel stuck.
If you are not happy, if youare in a place that isn't
(42:50):
bringing you joy, that doesn'tmake you feel impactful, figure
out where you want to go andthen figure out the steps to get
there.
If it involves night school, goto night school.
If it involves moving, figureout if you might need to move
right, but it might not beimmediate and not all changes
have to be tomorrow.
This is going to happen.
But if you can think longerterm out, you can think of
(43:13):
incremental steps that are goingto help you get there and you
will be happier for it.
But don't beat yourself up andsay, well, this is just the way
things are and do it for thenext 30, 40 years.
It's too long, it's too muchtime wasted and you have more
than enough time to changedirections.
Simon Kardynal (43:35):
Perfect.
Thank you so much for that.
Well listen, tammy.
We have had a fantasticconversation and I'm curious.
People have had an opportunityto hear from you to hear from
you and your your look at anouttake on things but if they
want to know more about you,they want to engage you for some
potential coaching or just havea conversation.
How might they do that?
Tammi Reiss (43:53):
So Tammi Reiss is spelled T-A-M-M-I-R-E-I-S-S, and
you can either go toTammyReesecom or
ProductLeaderCoachcom.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn.
I often, anytime I saysomething to three clients, I'll
put it out on the blog.
I have a newsletter on LinkedIncalled Product Leadership
(44:14):
Ponderings, and a lot of it ismore just generic leadership
ponderings, but I feel likethat's the generic version of
personalized coaching with me,because I want to help as many
people as possible, and so thatis my way of contributing and
putting things into the etherand hoping that they get links.
Simon Kardynal (44:33):
Well, that is perfect.
Thanks so much, and, of course,all of the links will be
available inside the show notesthat people can connect with you
at any time that they need to.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Of course, as no surprise to me, the 40 minutes blew by, so
thanks so much.
Tammi Reiss (44:50):
Thank you so much, simon, for having me, and I'm
looking forward to people fromthe Trans Leadership Podcast
connecting with me on LinkedInand me learning more about this
whole large community we'recreating.
Simon Kardynal (45:01):
Thank you, Tammi .
Well, take care.
All right, I'm going to hitpause, yeah, hey.
Well, that's a wrap from thefront.
In this episode, we talkedabout when you hit that point,
that sweet spot that you've beentrying to get to, and you ask
yourself the question what doyou do next?
We talked about what you can donext.
We talked about how you can dothat.
(45:22):
Next, we talked about all thedifferent options so that you
can have that honest, authenticlook amongst yourself to figure
out, when you end, why you wantto move.
Thanks for tuning in andremember leadership without
passion limits the depth of yourvision.
Glen (45:39):
Be sure to join us next week with your host, Simon
Kardynal, for another episode ofTrench Leadership: A Podcast
From the Front, produced byJennifer at, "It's a Legit
Business Music provided byAshimal of Music.
Never miss an episode byfollowing us wherever you get
your podcasts.
While you're there, pleaseconsider leaving us a review and
(46:02):
rating Hint we love five starsand let us know what topics you
would like to hear about.
I would like to begin this episode by
acknowledging that I am locatedin Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and
I am privileged and honoured tolive and learn on the unceded,
unsurrendered territory of theAnishinaabeg Algonquin Nation.
Glen (00:24):
Hello, you're listening to Trench Leadership
From the Front, a show foremerging leaders from all
professions to hear from otherleaders who have led from the
front, made the mistakes, hadthe triumphs and are still
learning along the way.
Produced by Jennifer Lee atit's a Legit Business, a podcast
(00:44):
launch and management company.
And now here's your host, SimonKardynal.
Simon Kardynal (00:55):
Hello and welcome to Trench Leadership
Podcast From the Front, a showfor emerging leaders.
For many of us, getting into aleadership position is the first
step of having made it withfinger quotations, often with
the goal of becoming a leader asthat career goal.
But what happens when you'vegotten to this point?
Where do you go next?
(01:16):
How can you maximize yourmoment?
In this episode, you'll hearfrom Tammi Reiss, a product
leader coach, who will offeradvice for emerging leaders to
make the most of their firstleadership role.
Tammi will also talk about howemerging leaders can realize
their long-term goals.
Ensuring the journey is the onewe want to take.
Well, folks, as always, I havethe guest here and I'd like to
(01:40):
go ahead and say hi to Tammi.
Hey, Tammi, how's it going?
Tammi Reiss (01:43):
Good.
How are you, Simon?
Simon Kardynal (01:44):
Oh, fantastic.
We've been working a little bitto get this together and thank
you so much for your patience toget us to this point, but here
we are, we made it here.
This is going to be a lot of fun, but before we get into it, I
would like to do a visualinterpretation, and for myself.
I have my microphone in frontof me.
I'm wearing my black golf shirtwith the Red Trench Leadership
(02:06):
logo over my heart.
My background is a virtualbackground of a stone wall with
the Trench Leadership logohanging.
It is white with a purple glowaround it, the irony being that
the logo is actually meant to bered, but that's what happens
when you order something onAmazon.
What can you do?
So these things happen.
Tammy, would you like to take amoment and introduce yourself
(02:27):
and give us your visualinterpretation?
Tammi Reiss (02:30):
Absolutely, and as somebody who sits on a board for
a nonprofit that is all aboutdisability inclusion, I love
that this is something thatwe're doing.
I've never been asked to do itbefore in any of my other
podcasts and I'm going to try toencourage other people to do it
.
You're going to start amovement, Simon.
Simon Kardynal (02:46):
Fantastic, I'm happy to hear it.
Tammi Reiss (02:48):
Hi everybody.
I'm speaking to you from Miami,Florida, and I have a virtual
background as well.
I'm not wearing glasses, but Iam wearing a very lovely gold
chain with some circles on it,and my virtual background looks
like an office with a white wall, a bit of industrial space.
And then I have this cutelittle black inset here which
(03:11):
says product leader, coach,which is my company name, and
then it says focus on yourstrengths, advance towards your
goals, which is my tagline.
Simon Kardynal (03:21):
Great Well.
Thanks so much for that, and Iappreciate taking the time for
that.
Tammi Reiss (03:34):
I am wondering, before we get right into our
conversation, would you mindtaking a couple of minutes and
just telling us a little bitabout yourself, your journey and
really how we got to this point?
Like to be called.
Ever since I went to UCLA as anundergraduate, that's what I've
been called, but when I movedto New York, people used to call
me Tammy from LA, and I wouldhave to explain that I was Tammi
from Miami.
(03:54):
And now that I'm back here.
I can't use that as often, but Ihave a very weird background in
the nature of where I startedis not where I am now.
I have a degree in physiology.
I was supposed to be a physicaltherapist.
I then went to business schoolto learn how to run my own
clinic, and while I was there Ilearned that I actually wanted
(04:16):
to help people in other ways andI wanted to be a nonprofit
consultant, and so I worked forsome big brand name nonprofits
for a while, and then I realizedthat in order to teach them how
to work like a corporation, Ineeded to actually work at a
corporation, and so I did abunch of that, and I was lucky
enough to be tapped forsomething called product
(04:38):
management, which I summarize asthe group of people in an
organization that decide what todo next, and I'm very good at
making decisions.
It turns out, and I have spentthe last 18 or so years in
product management at techcompanies, either as a
consultant teaching people howto do it, an educator teaching
(04:59):
people how to do it, or actuallydoing it myself in-house at
some really wonderful companiesand some less than wonderful
companies, and around two yearsago I hung up my own shingle to
be product leader coach, whichmeans that I'm an executive
coach for product leaders attech companies and I help them
realize how to do their jobsbetter or how to present
(05:20):
something better, because thehigher up you get in your career
, the less you can turn to yourboss for help or the less you
want to because it mightinfluence their confidence in
you.
And so I get to be this awesomesounding board and coach for
some really excellent, fantasticproduct leaders around the
world.
I have clients all over theworld and the way I got to be
(05:42):
talking with Simon is that myfriend, mark, who I've
collaborated with a fewdifferent times, wrote a
fantastic book and he was aguest on Simon's podcast and he
recommended me to be the same,and I enjoyed my initial
conversation with Simon enoughto spend more time with him and
more time with all of you.
Simon Kardynal (06:01):
Well, thanks so much for that, and we did have a
fantastic chat.
You know, sometimes you canjust kind of tell when people
are going to click, and we, weended up speaking, I think, well
beyond the 30 minutes we hadoriginally set for, and that's.
That's part of the thing.
I think is your.
We just kind of blew past thatand didn't even realize it, if
memory serves.
So, it was great, yeah,absolutely, absolutely.
And you know I I love the howyour background has tied you
(06:24):
towards going to becoming this aproduct leader, coach, like
that and how to be able to moveinto those things, because quite
often we and quite often we getto these roles inside large
organizations especially if it'sa large organization, it's it's
safe to be there and go up thatchain of command or that, that
corporate structure, becauseit's easier to know you have the
(06:45):
safety to stay there andthere's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not suggesting good or bad,I'm just saying that's a fact.
Um, I'm not really bad, by theway yeah, yeah, it is
challenging, so, uh, you know.
I'm wondering what happens,though, whether or not we decide
to stay inside an organizationor if we stretch our legs,
because at some point in time,especially with those first
(07:07):
leadership promotions, we'regoing to ask ourselves great, I
made it here, but now what?
Where do I go?
What's next?
You know, what do we do?
Tammi Reiss (07:14):
Well, you try being a CEO at 33, because that's
what I was.
And when I had that companysold and I was then looking for
a new job, I was almostunhirable because I was looking
for mid-level manager positions.
And who believed that a CEOdidn't want to be a CEO again?
(07:37):
And I really did not want to bea CEO at that exact moment.
Simon Kardynal (07:43):
Oh yeah, I couldn't imagine.
Tammi Reiss (07:44):
Yeah, so, um, but I think my one of my favorite
moments was, uh, the person whoended up hiring me, a woman
named Camila.
When she interviewed me, shesaid have you ever managed
anybody before?
And I just paused and she saidwell, that's a dumb question.
You are a CEO.
Obviously you've managed peoplebefore.
A CEO, obviously you've managedpeople before, and I was like
(08:07):
yeah, that's just once or twicea little tiny bit of experience.
It was a small company.
Right, there were 12 or sopeople, so it wasn't like I was
CEO of this huge conglomerate,but nonetheless I had definitely
managed people and profit andlosses and PNLs and had to fire
people and had to hire peopleand had to do lots of strategic
(08:27):
thinking to get a company out ofthe hole.
Simon Kardynal (08:30):
So, yeah, Well, and that's a big part of it, I
know, I do wonder and I don'tknow.
I genuinely don't know.
Ceo of a small company, ceo ofa large company?
There's probably differentresponsibilities but, at the end
of the day, ceoresponsibilities are CEO
responsibilities.
There has to be many thingsthat are going to roll across
each other.
Tammi Reiss (08:51):
Yeah, I don't think most CEOs of large companies
take the subway down to one oftheir clients because they owe
them $120,000 and they weren'tgoing to make payroll without
that $120,000.
Simon Kardynal (09:06):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Yeah, definitely a littledifferent.
Tammi Reiss (09:10):
Sure, as I led, you want to talk about trench
leadership, that is, leadershipin the trenches getting on the
subway to knock on theaccounting accounts receivable
door of a multi-million dollarcorporation to say yeah, yeah,
owe us some money, we'll takethe check, please okay, okay,
yeah, so definitely tactical inin its nature, which is ironic
(09:33):
because a lot of times, peoplethink, oh, CEO, wow, you must be
able to make there and do that.
Simon Kardynal (09:38):
That person has made it, you know, they're there
, they've got it, they're donehaving to go and go get checks
and those different types ofthings.
Tammi Reiss (09:45):
Uh, for, a good friend of mine owns a custom
bike, uh, refinishing business,and the assumption is, though,
you own a business, you must berich no or or not the case, or
you're trying to make ends meet,you know, and part of running a
business is the weight of allof your employees on you.
You have to make thesedecisions that hopefully grow
(10:12):
the business, that hopefullykeep bringing customers in, that
hopefully keep bringing moneyin, that not too much money goes
out so that you can still paypayroll and otherwise.
And people rely on that fortheir rent money, to buy food,
to take care of their family, togo on vacation, to have health
care, and that's all on you.
(10:33):
And a lot of people don'tunderstand the responsibility
leaders walk around with ontheir shoulders at all times.
Simon Kardynal (10:42):
It's not an easy job, oh yeah yeah, no, it
really isn't, and I think that'ssomething in the spirit of what
we're talking about here,something that for leaders to
think about when they want tostrive to get to these positions
and they find themselves there.
The first question that seemsto me would be the a good one to
ask ourselves introspectivelyis you know, what do I want to
do next?
(11:02):
And then, when we've askedourselves that question, be
honest, like does that makesense at all?
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Tammi Reiss (11:09):
Yeah, so I actually say there are three questions
that solve all problems.
I call them, the only threequestions you ever need.
And what should I do next isoften where people start the
question, but that's actually inmy mind.
The third question and thefirst question should be where
do I want to go?
What is my goal?
Long-term thinking, three tofive years out, five to ten
(11:33):
years out.
What are my values?
What kind of balance am Ilooking for in my life?
What kind of adventures do Iwant in my career?
What kind of experiences do Iwant to be able to be available
to me?
And when you start there, ithelps really frame any of the
(11:53):
rest of the decisions you haveto make, because you can say is
this going to help me get closerto my goal?
And so the next question iswhere am I right now?
Right, because in order to knowhow far you are from your goal,
you got to know where you are.
And so we start out with wheredo I want to go.
We then add on where am I rightnow?
(12:15):
And then ask where should I gonext?
And you evaluate what is thebest next step that helps you
get closer to the goal fromwhere you currently are.
And I call them where to?
Where now, where next?
Simon Kardynal (12:32):
Thank you so much for that.
I'm curious did you come upwith these three questions based
off of the experience that youhad throughout your career, or
things you observed?
A little bit of blend ofeverything.
How did they come about?
Tammi Reiss (12:42):
So, as a product manager I mentioned earlier my
job is to figure out what to donext, and as a product leader,
your job is to figure out whatto do next.
And as a product leader, yourjob is to figure out what to do
next for a lot of things, andnowadays in product management
we talk a lot about outcomesover output, that you want to be
aligned with goals, etc.
At which point we have, I ask alot of people what are your
(13:04):
goals?
And so those two became reallycrucial.
And then I had the pleasure ofworking with Melissa Perry, who
wrote a book called Escaping theBuild Trap, and she talks a lot
about something called thecurrent state and how it's
important for you to quantifyand qualify your current state
(13:24):
before making a decision.
And one of the things I did withMelissa was I was leading a
training for her product calledProduct Institute, and I was
doing corporate training forbrand new product managers that
were part of an associateproduct management company at a
brand I promise all of you knowand one of the largest companies
(13:44):
in the world, and I wasexplaining to them this goals
thing and current state thing,and I used the analogy of Google
Maps and I said it's prettymuch like Google Maps.
You have to set yourdestination.
That's the first question itasks you, and then it says where
are you, where do you want usto map you from?
(14:06):
And it defaults to your currentlocation, and then it gives you
options on how to get there,because, in reality, there are
lots of options on how toachieve your goals, and, more
often than not in life, peopleare offered an option and they
then ask feasibility questionsabout how can I make this happen
(14:29):
.
Does this work with this?
Can I juggle this witheverything else?
As opposed to valuabilityquestions, is this something
that helps me get to my goals?
Is this something that I willvalue?
Is this something that addsvalue to my life?
As opposed to can it be done?
Simon Kardynal (14:48):
And so that was where I came up with the three
questions that's interesting,and what I hear in all of that
and correct me if I'm wrong isit's these questions are
designed to have the person havean honest look at themselves,
and honesty is not a new concept.
We're not going to be like, ohbe honest, I wish I'd heard of
that before.
It's a it's a thing, but inreality of it is quite often
it's difficult.
Be honest, I wish I'd heard ofthat before.
(15:08):
It's a thing, but in reality ofit is quite often it's
difficult to be honest,especially depending on whatever
the culture is.
I know for myself when I was inthe military, one of the metrics
of perceived success was to goup the rank structure, and if
someone didn't want to go up therank structure, then they were
perceived as not beingsuccessful as an example.
But if someone was okay withthat, who are we to judge that?
(15:31):
It's that honesty and it's aninteresting spot to be at when
we're able to actually be thatmore honest, that much more
honest with ourselves.
Do you have any thoughts onthat at all?
Tammi Reiss (15:41):
Yeah, my first job at a nonprofit.
As I mentioned earlier, I was aprogram manager, which pretty
much means I was a event planner, fundraiser, and the leadership
of this large nationalnonprofit was very impressed
with certain things I was doingand they started grooming me
towards becoming an executivedirector of one of the regional
(16:03):
offices.
And I said to them at somepoint I look at what my boss
does, this regional directorposition.
I don't want to do that job.
That job isn't of interest tome.
It's just a lot of reportingand spreadsheets of things that
were done.
You're not reaching thecommunity anymore.
You're not doing thefundraising actively anymore.
(16:25):
It's a lot of pure managementand that's not what I wanted.
And they were very surprisedbecause that was rising up the
ranks.
And I said that isn't thefundraising actively anymore,
it's a lot of pure managementand that's not what I wanted.
And they were very surprisedbecause that was rising up the
ranks and I said that isn't thepath I want.
And I've forged my own path andthere were many, many years
where my parents, among others,were not sure I would make
anything of my life Because Ihad gone through so many jobs
(16:48):
and so many lateral moves thatit was like people quantify or
qualify success as moving up,when in reality, success should
be finding a place where yourstrengths can be leveraged for
good and you feel good aboutwhat you're doing at the end of
the day.
So, as an executive coach, do Imake as much money as I did
(17:11):
when I was a vice president ofproduct?
Absolutely not.
But do I feel great about theimpact I can have on my clients'
lives 100%?
Do I feel great about the factthat I can actually hang out
with my kids 100%?
Do I feel awesome about thefact that I get to travel to
(17:31):
conferences and speak andinspire people with speeches
like the only three questions,100%?
This is what brings me joy andthat's so much more important
than other people externallysaying you've made it or you've
been successful.
Simon Kardynal (17:50):
And that's a great point you brought up
talking about joy.
The fact of the matter is wespend a big part of our waking
day on our careers, on whateverit is to do, whatever we need to
do.
So if we're able to find somejoy in that, that's great,
that's even better.
Sometimes that's just not thecase.
Sometimes that joy, that job wehave, that has, all that joy
that's going to go away and it'sall about adjusting it.
(18:12):
I know for myself.
I always knew I wanted to be inthe military, and longtime
listeners of the podcast willhave heard the story numerous
times about how, after 26 yearsof doing fairly well in the
Canadian forces, it was time forme to do something else,
because that joy that I wasgetting of being in the forces
just simply wasn't there anymore.
It was time to do somethingelse.
So I completely stepped awayfrom the military for a little
(18:34):
over two years, and now I'veactually, with that time I was
actually able to.
I am able to work in themilitary as a reservist, so I
still get to do the parts that Ienjoy doing and I still have
other things that I'm able tofollow and have passion in
multiple different areas, andit's about finding the way to
find those balances and havingthe patience to have a real look
(18:56):
at it.
I think patience a lot of timescomes with being honest.
I think they're intertwined.
Do you have any thoughts onthat at all?
Tammi Reiss (19:02):
100 percent.
But the thing that's coming tomind is that, on the basis that
this podcast is about leadership, so much of a role of
leadership is to help inspirethe people on your team and the
people you're leading to feeljoy in their work, to find
meaning in their work, to findbalance in their lives and to
(19:22):
help them find a role that'sgoing to help them feel
impactful and joyful andmasterful and all the things
that help people feel good abouttheir day.
Because, you mentioned, wededicate a large portion of our
day to our work life.
My dad often says your life,your time on earth, is pretty
(19:44):
much divided into three thingsyour time with your family and
friends, your time at work andsleeping.
And if you're not enjoying yourfamily and friends and you're
not enjoying your job, chancesare you're not sleeping very
well.
Simon Kardynal (20:03):
Yeah, it's very true.
Tammi Reiss (20:06):
And so if you're going to put one third of your
life into something, make sureit's something that you can
either feel joyful about theresult of because it's helping
finance your other passions, orthat you actually really feel
great about the work that you'redoing.
You know.
Glen (20:26):
Oh, hello there.
It's Glen, the voiceover artist, and if you're hearing me, that
means we're at the midpoint ofthis episode.
Are you considering startingyour own podcast?
Are you confused or overwhelmedand don't know where to start?
Well,J ennifer at "It's a LegitBusiness is a podcast wizard
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(20:47):
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Provide advice, consultationand help you along the way.
Trench Leadership has beenusing it's a Legit Business for
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the podcast's unique needs anddesires, truly hearing Simon's
requests and being instrumentalin realizing Trench Leadership's
(21:08):
vision for each episode.
If you want to get started,contact Jennifer at Jennifer at
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Trench Leadership is alwaysstriving to improve our content
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(21:30):
So drop us a note at simonk attrenchleadershipca and let us
know what's working and what canbe improved.
And now back to the show.
Simon Kardynal (21:42):
Yeah, so that's really interesting.
And when we're talking abouthow people and leaders can they
get to that point, they plateaubecause they realized whatever
their their goal was, whateverthat might be, what's next.
How do you have any type ofadvice to help that leader
decide where to go next andmaybe find their new direction?
Tammi Reiss (22:03):
So one of the things I encourage people to do
which I did many, many years agoas part of a group coaching
program that I was a participantin is to invest around a half
hour writing down your perfectday.
Write down from the moment youwake up to you going to bed.
What does your perfect day looklike and it could be a Sunday
(22:23):
or a Wednesday or anything inbetween but really consciously
think about what would a daylook like that at the end of it,
you'd be smiling ear to ear.
Who are you talking to?
Who are you meeting with?
What are you doing?
Where are you?
And start there, because thatis, to a certain degree, of
(22:45):
visioning exercise.
You're envisioning a life thatyou want and so then evaluating
again between the goal and yourcurrent state, like where are
there gaps?
Are there people you want to bespending more time with?
Are there people you want to bespending less time with?
Right, are there things youwant to be doing more of or less
(23:05):
of?
In that perfect day, were youmore active than you currently
are?
Are you more sedentary?
I don't know, but whatever thatis, figure that out.
And I think another thing thatcan be really helpful is talking
to the people who know you.
Talk to your partner, talk toyour children, talk to your
parents, talk to your reallygood friends about what they
(23:27):
think will help find you joy.
I have a client whose husbandsaid to her, like I don't think
you're ever going to be happy ata company.
And I know my husband said tome I don't think you're ever
going to be happy with a bossbecause I really don't like
actually having a boss.
But he's right, I don't reallyenjoy having a boss.
(23:49):
It's not that I don't learnfrom bosses.
I just very often move on andI'm like, okay, like let's,
let's do something next.
And so I think that very often,the people closest to us see
things that we're not beingtruthful to ourselves about,
like you were saying right, andthey, to a certain degree, speak
truth to power, right, and theytell you the things that you
(24:12):
need to hear and they say to youI saw you smiling ear to ear
when you were doing X.
Do you remember when you hadthis job and you used to come
home so excited and tell mestories about this?
Maybe you should do somethingrelated to that, and relying on
the people around us as soundingboards and as feedback loops
(24:38):
really can be very helpful infiguring out what to do next.
It's still your choice, right?
I often say, as a coach, I'mgoing to give you advice, but it
has to feel authentic to you.
So if you don't like it, tellme why and I'll give you new
advice.
So whatever advice you'rereceiving, it still always has
to feel authentic to you.
So don't just follow blindlysomething someone else has said,
(25:01):
but use it as an input thathelps you understand what is the
long-term that's going to makeyou happy and then what should
be your next step.
Simon Kardynal (25:15):
And it's for myself it's okay if we don't
know exactly what that is rightaway.
My experiences have been likeoften in the busyness of life
and and in especially in anytype of corporate environment,
there's an almost an expectation, an unsaid expectation, to know
exactly what you want to do andknow all the steps and stick to
that plan, even though oftenthey talk about flexibility, but
(25:36):
in my opinion, very rarely dopeople actually mean that.
Do you have any thoughts?
Tammi Reiss (25:42):
Yeah, absolutely so .
In product, we talk a lot aboutthe lean cycle, which is build
measure learn a lot about thelean cycle, which is build
measure learn.
And when Melissa and I talkabout how to get from your
current state to your goal state, there's a lot of uncertainty
there and it's not going to be alinear path.
Very often, the next step issimply learning something right.
(26:04):
Your current state is notenough knowledge about something
and therefore the next step isget more knowledge, get more
data, interview some people,talk to some people in the field
, talk to a few companies, dosome research, because the
current state isn't only whatyou have, it's also what you
don't have, and very often, whatyou don't have is knowledge,
(26:27):
and so you often have to startthe build measure learn cycle at
learn, because you don'tnecessarily know what to build
and so, similarly, you may noteven know the options out there
to you as to what a next stepcould be, unless you do some
research and talking to peopleand learning, because your
(26:48):
current state is a lack ofknowledge yeah, absolutely.
Simon Kardynal (26:53):
Uh, and on more than one occasion throughout my
career there were certain jobs,certain positions.
I thought, wow, this is goingto be amazing.
I, I can't wait, that's mycareer goal.
And then I'd get in the job andrealize that it's nothing like
I.
I thought it was going to be.
It's kind of like meeting yourhero and it's it's.
They're not that same person,you know.
Yeah, exactly, and I'm like,well, well, shit, now, what
(27:17):
right?
Like what do you do now?
And do you have any type ofadvice for someone that they,
when they experience that typeof moment where they're like, oh
crap.
Tammi Reiss (27:26):
I think, first of all, embrace it as a learning
right.
Right, don't beat yourself up.
You made a mistake or you werewrong, or you went in the wrong
direction.
You learned that wasn't thedirection for you.
That's a positive outcome.
There's a positive outcome to Itook a step and I learned that
wasn't for me.
And actually take a moment toanalyze why that is.
(27:50):
What is it about it that youwere hopeful for?
That is meeting theseexpectations, and where were
there things that you had tomiss?
You know alignment of what itwas actually going to be, and
then say, okay, those are thingsI don't want again.
I don't want to have, I don'twant to work for a company that
(28:14):
does you know work with the CIAor whatever.
It is right or I don't want towork for a boss, that's remote.
Sometimes it's something thatyou don't even realize is going
to be a challenge.
Or I don't want to work for acompany that's in time zones
ahead of me versus behind me orvice versa, right, and there are
all of these things that youcan figure out and really treat
(28:36):
it as a learning experience,because, as I say to my
three-year-old daughter, we makemistakes and then we learn.
Mistakes aren't a bad thing,mistakes are how we learn.
It's the easiest way to learnis to make a misstep, and so, if
you can embrace that you made amisstep because what do you
(28:58):
know?
You're human and we all makemistakes Now you have the
opportunity to learn from it,and that provides you the
opportunity to grow and to geteven closer towards where you
want to go.
But you might take 17 wrongturns along the way, and that's
okay.
Simon Kardynal (29:18):
A big theme for me in life in general is dot,
dot, dot and that's okay.
I say that many, many, manytimes and because it is,
mistakes are okay.
I'm going to switch gears justa little tiny bit because as we
were talking about that, aquestion popped into my mind and
I'm wondering in yourexperience as a coach and I
(29:40):
would imagine that you have hadit seems to me that you would
have had clients who maybe, whenyou're asking them questions,
you're trying to get to helpthem get to their point where
they're being honest withthemselves.
Maybe they're lying not to youbut definitely to themselves,
and you're probably, from theoutside, able to see that.
So I'm curious when you're inthose types of roles, have you
(30:02):
seen any types of similaritiesin people in a broad sense?
To tell when they're lying tothemselves and lying might sound
kind of strong, but maybe notbeing as honest with themselves
about what they want to do.
Are there any type of physicalcues or that type of thing?
Tammi Reiss (30:19):
I am not as good about picking up on body
language, but what I have foundis that very often, when someone
knows that they aren't fullybeing honest, they tend to over
explain, they try to justify andthey they're like, because this
and this and this and theythey'll go into all of these
(30:41):
details that justify somethingthat they know isn't authentic
and isn't a truth.
And then I'll say, OK, well,like, let's piece these pictures
to put these pieces togetheragain.
I don't think A correlates withthese things that I'm seeing.
Right, you told me these otherthings happened and if this were
(31:04):
to be true, those other thingswouldn't have happened.
This actually happenedyesterday with one of my clients
.
So I work with leaders, whichmeans they're often smart,
accomplished people whooccasionally and I would never
fall into this category like tobe right.
Simon Kardynal (31:23):
Don't hear any sarcasm in that one at all.
Tammi Reiss (31:25):
Nope, I hate being right with a passion in that one
at all.
Nope, I hate being right with apassion.
And this particular client wastalking about how they love
being right so much.
Sometimes they push it a littletoo far with other people and
they were beating themselves upfor doing it a few times and I
said don't beat yourself up forthat.
(31:48):
I said first of all, like youwere cognizant in these other
situations, right, like when youknew that behavior wasn't good
cause, you brought me in, youbrought in peers and that's
growth, right.
But you still got a problem andwe still have room to work on
ourselves and we're all inmotion and we're all works in
progress, and so that's okay.
(32:09):
But he was being a little liketoo self-fledgable jury and I
was like no, like you don't haveto beat yourself up.
Sometimes it's a negative,right that?
Like he was beating himself upas to this untruth, that he was
a horrible person who was doingthis all the time, and I was
like that isn't the case either,right?
(32:30):
So sometimes it's, you thinkyou're really wonderful at
something and sometimes it's not.
I had a client who I changed herwhole perspective on the way
(32:50):
she worked and thus she has beenmuch successful but super smart
, super capable person.
And she told me that very oftenwhen she was in a room, someone
would bring up a problem.
She would suggest a solution.
That would be the suggestedsolution and then the question
would be okay, who wants toimplement that solution?
Someone else would raise theirhand and then they would get the
credit for actuallyimplementing the solution.
And I said well, why don't youraise your hand?
And she said I don't want tostep on people's toes.
And I said that's not really areason, right, like, and that's
(33:16):
that's not a truth in the worldthat you're not actually
stepping on someone's toes.
And I I said what can we do tohelp you raise your hand?
And I thought about it for awhile and I coached her for a
while, long enough to knowcertain things that she found
valuable, and I said to her Isaid if you are on that project,
will it be more successful?
And she said yes.
And I said do you bring valueto not just the idea of the
(33:40):
solution but actuallyimplementing it and dealing with
the bumps in the road along theway?
And she said absolutely yes.
And I said great.
So you're not raising your handin order to step on someone's
toes because that isn't yourpersonality, right?
She said no, it's not mypersonality.
I'm not political andaggressive that way.
I said you're going to raiseyour hand because when you
(34:03):
participate in a project, it hasa higher chance of success, and
higher chance of success helpsthe company, it helps everybody
involved and therefore you'renot raising your hand to step on
someone's toes.
You're raising your hand so theproject or the initiative could
have more success.
And then all of a sudden, shesaid oh, and I said yeah,
(34:25):
because you're smart enough andyou're capable enough and you're
organized and you're good atthis, so it's a good thing for
you to be on a team.
And that was reallytransformative for her.
Simon Kardynal (34:38):
And sometimes people just they just need to
hear it.
And when someone is completelyoutside their sphere, completely
impartial, because it's likeanything.
If your mom or your dad saysyou know, you're beautiful, I,
you know, I expect my mother totell me that I'm a good looking
man.
You know, it's my mom right,I'm expecting that, you know.
(34:59):
But if you know someone elsecompletely outside the world
says that it's going to carry abit of different weight or
different perspective, for sure,does that make sense at all
yeah, absolutely, I have a, Ihave a.
Tammi Reiss (35:08):
So the job market right now is very hard for
people in tech.
There have been countlesslayoffs of hundreds of thousands
of people.
So it is a hard job market.
And I have a client who I'mhelping her with promoting
herself towards getting a joband she had two interviews with
two brand name companies thisweek and she said I always don't
(35:28):
make it past the finalinterview, like there's
something that goes wrong.
And I said don't beat yourselfup, there's nothing that goes
wrong, right, like, whateverthey're looking for, at that
point you're one in three people, right, you've got a one in
three trance that every all thestars are gonna align.
And I said to her I said take itas a compliment that you're
even getting to that stage.
(35:49):
You've told me that online onLinkedIn, you can see that this
role had 750 applicants.
So, out of 758 applicants, youwere one of the hundred people
that they actually had a phonecall with her 30 people they had
a phone call with.
And then you were out of thehundred people that they
actually had a phone call withher 30 people they had a phone
call with and then you were outof the 10 people they had a
second phone call with and nowyou're part of the select three
(36:10):
out of the initial 750 peoplewho are getting to go to this
final round.
That is a compliment and thatis an accomplishment, even if
you don't get the job.
And that was like.
I had to say it a few times.
And she still hasn't fullyinternalized it because she's
still afraid she's going to getrejected.
But it's important to havethese outside voices that remind
(36:34):
you you're awesome.
Simon Kardynal (36:38):
Exactly, and I mean, I think it's human nature
to want to safeguard ourselves alittle bit, that fight or
flight instinct that we havejust built into us.
It's a lot of times people willpush towards that negative
outlook.
So if they don't get it, thenthat's okay.
I guess I didn't, I couldn'tget it for whatever reason.
I move on and be disappointed,and that made sense.
(37:00):
I wasn't the right person.
But then when you get it, youcan be pleasantly surprised at
where you got to that point.
And it's interesting becauseoften when we get to those
points then we're looking aroundand we're like, well, great,
now what?
If only I feel like someoneshould do an episode about that
and talk about what do we dowhen we hit to that point?
What?
Tammi Reiss (37:18):
Would someone should totally do that.
How do we decide what to donext?
Simon Kardynal (37:21):
Where do we go with that?
Tammi Reiss (37:22):
Questions that could help us yeah, exactly so I
use very generic uh exampleswhen I give a speech about the
three questions, and one of themis like how do you choose where
to go on vacation?
Because very often someone says, hey, do you want to go to
aruba?
Or hey, do you want to goskiing?
And then it becomes afeasibility question oh, when
can I go skiing?
Do I have the right gear, theright budget?
(37:43):
But instead it should be likewhat kind of vacation am I
looking for?
What are my goals of thisvacation?
Am I trying to visit family?
Am I trying to be cultured?
Am I trying to do somethingwith my children?
Am I trying to get sun, escapethe cold or go to the cold?
Simon Kardynal (37:58):
Do like understand your goals before you
start choosing where you'regoing to go no, absolutely, and
understanding that is importantwhere you want to go and figure
it out from there.
It just kind of makes sense.
I'm wondering.
So how do you have any type ofadvice for people to other than
the three questions where theymight decide what their next
goal could be?
Tammi Reiss (38:20):
I would look at people who inspire you, Right?
I think that's a good place tostart and like do you want to be
them or do you want to workwith them or things like that,
or do things that are similar tothem, but again dissecting it
in the same way we dissectedearlier why a really exciting
job turned out not to be sogreat and what we can learn from
that.
(38:40):
Dissect what it is you likeabout someone that you find
inspiring, right.
Is it because they'reentrepreneurial?
Is it because they're caring?
Is it because they'reempathetic?
Simon Kardynal (38:50):
Is it because they don't care?
Tammi Reiss (38:51):
hey're just free-willing and they just say
whatever they want.
Is it because they'reincredibly rich or that they
have a really big family?
Like what is it that you'reaspiring to right, breaking that
out of what you're looking atand being true to yourself about
what is it that you're aspiringto right, breaking that out of
what you're looking at and beingtrue to yourself about what is
it that you're admiring in thatother person and their life and
(39:12):
hopefully finding a trendamongst the number of people you
admire?
And they don't have to befamous, they could just be
people in your neighborhood thatyou admire.
Simon Kardynal (39:20):
So, yeah, yeah, I love that and I think that's
an important thing is to look atthe others and see what you
like about them and see what you, what, what speaks to you.
I find for myself, you know,when I, when I want, the reason
I wanted to join the military sooften was because my father was
in the military and and Iremember him coming home from
wearing his uniform now and andI think, wow, he's doing
something important.
(39:41):
He gets to, you know, for allthe military's challenges I'm
not going to it's not a shame onyou.
I know what was I thinking andand you know, and I admired the
fact that you know he, Ibelieved he was doing something
very important and that was whyI wanted to join the military,
so I could do something likethat.
And then, you know, when I gotin, I you know this is as a
(40:01):
teenager and then when I finallygot into the military and I was
doing my different things, Iwas telling him, said, you know,
the reason I joined themilitary was because of this,
these reasons, and I'll neverforget he's like, well, okay,
great, but I joined the militarybecause it was a steady job and
and and it gave me a trade.
He's like I wasn't thinkingabout those things and that that
stuck with me for a long timeLike damn it, damn it, damn it,
(40:24):
damn it.
And then after a while Irealized no, regardless of what
I thought, I still thatreasoning for me resonated with
me.
So it was okay.
There was nothing wrong withhim having a different way of
looking at it.
It didn't minimize anythingthat I was doing or what I
wanted to do and why thatmessage still resonated with me
and he was still a part of that.
(40:45):
Do you have any thoughts?
Tammi Reiss (40:48):
You had different goals, but you ended up in the
same place yep fantastic winsuccess either way, you
accomplished your goals right.
It turns out there are lots ofways to accomplish goals and
lots of goals that can beaccomplished by doing the same
thing exactly and, like I saidearlier, I think it comes back
(41:11):
to being flexible and how youget there.
Simon Kardynal (41:13):
Really, that it's.
It's a journey, and then it'snot going to be a straight road,
uh and it's, but we'll getthere you'll get there you'll
make your time and it's sort oflike watching a movie everyone's
gonna have take something elseout of it.
Tammi Reiss (41:27):
You were all sitting in the theater together
and every one of you had aunique experience and every one
of you was something slightlydifferent and therefore, like
when you look at what otherpeople are doing, don't judge
yourself based on that.
Find, as I said, the tidbits ofwhy you look towards that as
aspiration.
Right and whatever.
(41:48):
It was about your dad that youadmired, that he came home and
that he was giving back right,that was the next level of it.
Like that's what you admired,and I'm sure that you could have
become a cop or a firefighterinstead and still emulated that
nature of giving back to yourcommunity.
Military was one way to do itand that was the way you chose,
but your goal was to give backto your community, to serve your
(42:11):
community, and there were manypaths to get there.
Simon Kardynal (42:15):
Yeah, absolutely , Absolutely Well, thank you so
much for that.
This feels like a nice time toask you.
Hey, do you have any finalthoughts before we move into the
lightning round?
Tammi Reiss (42:27):
I think I say this a lot it's our careers are long.
Our lives are much longer thanthey have historically ever been
.
You're going to be working forsomething like 40, 50 years.
Do not feel stuck.
If you are not happy, if youare in a place that isn't
(42:50):
bringing you joy, that doesn'tmake you feel impactful, figure
out where you want to go andthen figure out the steps to get
there.
If it involves night school, goto night school.
If it involves moving, figureout if you might need to move
right, but it might not beimmediate and not all changes
have to be tomorrow.
This is going to happen.
But if you can think longerterm out, you can think of
(43:13):
incremental steps that are goingto help you get there and you
will be happier for it.
But don't beat yourself up andsay, well, this is just the way
things are and do it for thenext 30, 40 years.
It's too long, it's too muchtime wasted and you have more
than enough time to changedirections.
Simon Kardynal (43:35):
Perfect.
Thank you so much for that.
Well listen, tammy.
We have had a fantasticconversation and I'm curious.
People have had an opportunityto hear from you to hear from
you and your your look at anouttake on things but if they
want to know more about you,they want to engage you for some
potential coaching or just havea conversation.
How might they do that?
Tammi Reiss (43:53):
So Tammi Reiss is spelled T-A-M-M-I-R-E-I-S-S, and
you can either go toTammyReesecom or
ProductLeaderCoachcom.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn.
I often, anytime I saysomething to three clients, I'll
put it out on the blog.
I have a newsletter on LinkedIncalled Product Leadership
(44:14):
Ponderings, and a lot of it ismore just generic leadership
ponderings, but I feel likethat's the generic version of
personalized coaching with me,because I want to help as many
people as possible, and so thatis my way of contributing and
putting things into the etherand hoping that they get links.
Simon Kardynal (44:33):
Well, that is perfect.
Thanks so much, and, of course,all of the links will be
available inside the show notesthat people can connect with you
at any time that they need to.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Of course, as no surprise to me, the 40 minutes blew by, so
thanks so much.
Tammi Reiss (44:50):
Thank you so much, simon, for having me, and I'm
looking forward to people fromthe Trans Leadership Podcast
connecting with me on LinkedInand me learning more about this
whole large community we'recreating.
Simon Kardynal (45:01):
Thank you, Tammi .
Well, take care.
All right, I'm going to hitpause, yeah, hey.
Well, that's a wrap from thefront.
In this episode, we talkedabout when you hit that point,
that sweet spot that you've beentrying to get to, and you ask
yourself the question what doyou do next?
We talked about what you can donext.
We talked about how you can dothat.
(45:22):
Next, we talked about all thedifferent options so that you
can have that honest, authenticlook amongst yourself to figure
out, when you end, why you wantto move.
Thanks for tuning in andremember leadership without
passion limits the depth of yourvision.
Glen (45:39):
Be sure to join us next week with your host, Simon
Kardynal, for another episode ofTrench Leadership: A Podcast
From the Front, produced byJennifer at, "It's a Legit
Business Music provided byAshimal of Music.
Never miss an episode byfollowing us wherever you get
your podcasts.
While you're there, pleaseconsider leaving us a review and
(46:02):
rating Hint we love five starsand let us know what topics you
would like to hear about.
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