November 24, 2023 • 60 mins
Native American identity and organization. 0:00
Federal recognition for Native American tribes. 7:07
Native American identity and federal recognition. 19:25
Tribal recognition and federal government responsibilities. 21:58
Tribal recognition and identity. 27:21
Cultural identity and authenticity. 34:22
Native American policy and advocacy. 42:26
Tribal sovereignty and cultural preservation. 47:19
Guest: Salisha OldBull (Salish/Crow)
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aaron Brien (00:00):
Hey Walgren just called me Should I call him
back live?
Shandin Pete (00:05):
Okay, yeah, go ahead see what happens.
Aaron Brien (00:12):
Hello? Hey, what's going on? He left us on a
cliffhanger. What the hellshut off the live wait for you
(00:35):
guys to pinpoint what was beingsaid at what happened? Hey man,
you got to we're recording rightnow that's the whole point on a
cliffhanger you can't do that wehad to let
Shandin Pete (01:00):
them monetize this. We got to monetize
preview. Yeah,
Aaron Brien (01:04):
yeah we gave you a trailer man trailer in a trailer
you're able to look it up. He's
Shandin Pete (01:13):
gonna look it up.
Aaron Brien (01:15):
Yeah, look up and see a I incident or whatever.
And we're going to talk about itand you'll just have to wait
seven weeks for the episode. Onthe clip weeks, six to eight
weeks. If it goes any longergive us a call
(01:41):
Did you hear me say yeah, cookdinner. cook me some goulash.
I'll come up and we'll visit.
Yeah, spaghetti. Do it. I'vebeen waiting for like two years
for you to invite me over fordinner. We told you like Walter
does that invitation thing heinvites me over to dinner but
doesn't tell me where he livesinvite you telling me where you
(02:07):
live. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry, bro.
On a cliffhanger. Where's thatthing again? NCAI. Yeah,
National Congress of America ofthe American Indian. Look it up.
(02:27):
But we're recording right now sofatally stabbed?
Salisha Old Bull (02:30):
He was trying to defeat the fight that way. It
might be might be that might be.
Aaron Brien (02:44):
Yeah, we need the link. We're going to talk about
it right now.
So we can cliffhanger. Hold myarm hold on that one and see a
doo doo just send them the link.
Similarly, just put them on thepodcast. It just took too much
(03:04):
time. You can you can take itoff.
Shandin Pete (03:11):
Oh no. We're gonna leave it. It's the impromptu.
Impromptu impromptu.
Like impromptu. But almost.
Aaron Brien (03:23):
It was almost like a good segue like Walt asking
what why we left them hanging.
Shandin Pete (03:28):
Yeah, it is. It is. So yeah, this is so this is
the deal. And we've got what gotsome.
Aaron Brien (03:38):
I got it transcribed. What
Shandin Pete (03:41):
is it? Oh, you got it transparent?
Aaron Brien (03:43):
Yeah, well read it.
Okay. You're
Shandin Pete (03:46):
gonna give us context first or no? No,
Aaron Brien (03:48):
no, no. All right.
Just go read it. The contextafter it says I'll try. Okay.
Says I apologize to all thestate tribes in here. But NCAA
AI gave you the false hope thatthat we are all the same. We are
not. We are federally recognizedfor a reason. We fought these
wars while you guys sat on thesidelines and waited until the
(04:12):
dust had settled. You guys arecoming out of the woodwork to
start being Indian. The crowdstarts booing and then he says
well get some federalrecognition. There's a process
and quote, That was a quote fromthe southern you check tribal
(04:32):
chairman.
Shandin Pete (04:36):
I don't think it's Sunday. No, no, not southern
you. Northern you. Just you justused Oh,
Aaron Brien (04:42):
I didn't know there was okay. So just you the you
chairman. That
Shandin Pete (04:46):
yeah, yeah. That Yeah. gets pretty clear. Yeah.
And I don't know the difference.
I'm not familiar with thatregion, a whole lot difference
Aaron Brien (04:56):
our deference in And both. Yeah,
Shandin Pete (05:02):
so this we haven't really talked about this a whole
lot we kind of skirt around it.
And it has it's related toidentity. Why we
Aaron Brien (05:10):
talked about it a little bit. Oh, give the context
give the context though. Oh,
Shandin Pete (05:14):
the context. So I think its annual right, this
convention or this Congress, theNational Congress of the
American Indian. So, admittedly,I'm unfamiliar with what this
organization does. I'munfamiliar with how often they
(05:38):
meet, I think they meet once ayear, maybe? I don't know. Okay,
so let's just say no. I don'tnot sure how many members they
have, or what tribes areinvolved. So I'm going in pretty
ignorant. It's a start. They'repretty ignorant. But apparently,
there's an amendment to theirconstitution. Their bylaws? I
(06:00):
don't know. Apparently, thisorganization has bylaws and a
constitution? I don't know. It'sa big organization. So they have
to have some sort of writtenrules, which is kind of odd to
me. Right off? Well, I don'tknow. And the amendment is to
remove state, state recognizedtribes, as voting members from
(06:25):
the Congress of the Congress ofthe American Indian or National
Congress has him Yeah. Okay.
That's as far as I know. And Igot this, seen this on Twitter,
this little clip of thisgentleman making a statement,
and a number of other tribalrepresentatives made not a
statement to that effect, butagain, supporting the amendment
(06:47):
saying that, yeah, we're, I'm,I'm for this amendment. state
recognized tribes should nothave voting power in this
Congress. So he's not the onlyone. He's just the one who's
happened to get blasted onTwitter or ex formerly known as
Twitter.
Salisha Old Bull (07:07):
Isn't the one he's the one who went up there
and said it.
Shandin Pete (07:10):
Yeah. Yeah. So this is, this is what I'm
curious about, and maybesolution, or Aaron can clarify.
But I was curious, when I heardthat. I thought, well, what what
is this process? And what doesthe tribe have to do? To get
federal federally recognized?
There's seven, there's sevencriteria, mandatory criteria.
(07:31):
And apparently, four, only fourare really the most difficult.
And those criteria are numberone. And this one seems like
straightforward that a tribe orthe petitioner, whoever is
trying to get federalrecognition, should demonstrate
(07:52):
that it has been identified asan American Indian entity, on a
substantially continuous basissince the 1900s. Or since 1900.
criteria. Number one, that'sfair, right? That's like saying
you can just all sudden claim tobe a tribe. If you hadn't been
since, and I don't know why1900. But I guess 1900. What do
(08:14):
you weigh in on that? That fair?
unfair. Maybe this is notsomething we need to talk about.
Salisha Old Bull (08:25):
I have to hear the rest of them because I'm
pretty rusty. As
Shandin Pete (08:29):
to the rest.
There's some problems here, evenfrom the get go on a conceptual
basis, though, right? On aconceptual basis. Well, the
whole
Aaron Brien (08:40):
idea of recognition is weird anyway, but Yeah, do
that. Do the rest. Okay.
Shandin Pete (08:45):
Okay. Number two, show. Number two is show that a
predominant portion of thepetitioning group comprises a
distinct community, and hasexisted as a community from
historical times until present.
Aaron Brien (09:02):
What are their lyrical, but well, for them?
They already said it in thefirst one, it's 19. Yeah, that's
kind of redundant, right? Soit's sort of dug into
Shandin Pete (09:10):
those. It does feel Dundon redundant. Number
three, now, this is this is kindof a tough one here demonstrate
that it has maintained politicalinfluence, or authority over its
members, as an autonomous entityfrom historical times and tell
(09:31):
present. So again, historicaltimes, I don't know, but
maintain political influence orauthority over its members, as
an autonomous entity. Okay.
Number four, provide a copy ofthe group's present governing
document what including itsmembership criteria, okay. All
right. This is getting kind ofcrazy here to me. Anyway, number
(09:51):
five. So this is all just for atribe right? To get federal
recognition. procedures forestablishing that an American
Indian group exists as an Indiantribe. That's what it is. All
right, number five demonstratethat its membership consists of
individuals who descended fromthe historical Indian tribes or
from historical Indian tribes ortribe or tribes that combined
(10:14):
and functioned as a singleautonomous political entity and
provided a current membershiplist. Number six show that the
membership of the petitioninggroup is comprised principally
of persons who are not membersof any acknowledged North
American Indian tribe. Andfinally, number seven
demonstrate that either thepetitioner nor its members are
(10:35):
the subject of congressionallegislation that has expressly
terminated or forbidden thefederal relationship. If the
criteria is considered met, ifthe available evidence
establishes a reasonablelikelihood of the validity of
the facts related to thatcriterion, then they're
federally recognized. All right,go, go.
(11:02):
Tell me your grapes. You had
Salisha Old Bull (11:05):
there's part of the list is like a chicken,
what comes first the chicken orthe egg question? Okay. So the
issue is, there's tribes,there's tribes that tried to get
federally recognized that weredisplaced during reservation
(11:26):
era. Right. And because ofwhatever disagreement that they
they had in a political contextwith, like knit, like tribes
that they would normally allywith, somehow they would get
split. Because how hard it wasduring that time. Yeah. And so
(11:54):
those tribes, when it came downto the federal government coming
in and doing the allotment,they, they didn't get assigned
anywhere, because they weretraveling or because they
couldn't, they couldn't partnerwith their normal partners, like
(12:19):
something come up, and theydecided to go this direction or
that direction, or maybe theyjust weren't getting along, or
who knows? They. So those wouldbe like landless tribes. And
they never got assignedanywhere. So then. So there's a
tribe like that in Montana, andit seems like, Okay, I'm getting
(12:42):
ahead of myself. But the, thecriteria that is there, one of
them says something aboutproving historical context, one
of them says something about apolitical political history.
Yeah. They're supposed toprovide like, evidence of this.
(13:03):
Yeah. And then when they submitthose things, it goes to
Washington, DC. Yeah. And itgets put on a pile of lists of
like, somebody has to reviewthese applications. In turn. I
don't know somebody, somebodyreviews it. And always, always
(13:28):
one of those things. It's like acircular argument. It's like you
can't have you can't prove thatyou had this. If if you didn't
have the documentation, likelet's say, what was early
documentation, like a treaty,like you can, like if you were
omitted from the treaty, thenyou don't have documentation.
(13:50):
But the whole, the whole purposeis you're they're trying to say,
well, that's what we're tryingto tell you is, we didn't we
didn't get not that they wanteda treaty. But it's like, well,
we didn't get on that. And soyeah, we don't have a
documentation to show you. Likewe just know that we were here.
Yeah. And so the arguments nowwhen it comes down to is because
(14:19):
because some states, theirtribe, the tribe is on. Like,
they don't rely on like casinoincome or anything like that.
They're like a resource. It'smore like a resource income,
like a dam or something likesomething weird like that, where
(14:39):
it's a very small income and itgets distributed in some states.
Or maybe it is a question, whoknows? Anyway, it comes down to
the breakdown of resources. Thateven though there's like oral
history, or even though there'sa Um, there might be some
(15:01):
documentation written like, oh,yeah, there was this band that
went off. So in Montana waslike, over by Great Falls, the
little shell tribe is one that'sa state recognized tribe, even
though like the surroundingchild would have a stories about
their existence. That circularargument comes back. And, and so
(15:28):
so the politics becomes or theYeah, the politics becomes like,
well, it comes down to resourceslike, like a tribe doesn't want
to accept the whole group of anentire group of like descendants
or descendant of that tribe, orthey don't want to accept that.
(15:48):
And because then that means youhave to split the resources with
with that tribe. And peopledon't like to talk about that.
But that's really what it alwaysis, is like, and those are,
those are like, the politiciansof the tribe, you know, like,
the politicians will say, like,will doubt no one ever say it,
(16:10):
but it usually always comes downto money, like people don't want
to let go of any type of moneythat is coming in. And so then
they do this, like, don't wantto aid a the child to get
accepted. But in this instance,with the National Congress,
(16:30):
yeah, I think it's a little bitunfair, like, I'm just gonna,
I'm just gonna say it's a littlebit unfair, because there's some
tribes that legitimately havebeen fighting for pretty much
forever trying to get some typeof some type of recognition. And
to have somebody say thatthey're just not trying to be
(16:53):
native or whatever he said. It'ssuper insulting, because it's
like, well, they've been trying,it's just that the criteria that
the federal government has,which hasn't been changed? Yeah.
It's really hard to, it's reallyhard to get the evidence that
they want. And in the, in theway that they want it in order
(17:16):
to be federally recognized.
Yeah. And it's that and it'seven become, to the point where
probably in the last 10 years,tribes have to existing
federally recognized tribes havefought to disenroll or
unrecognized tribes for whateverreason. Right. So that's
(17:41):
happened. I can't remember thename of that type. That got
unrecognized, but um, and he'sin eastern United States.
Shandin Pete (17:55):
So yeah, so that so the deal, so boils down to
this idea of recognition. Andthis this criteria that's put in
place by the federal government.
So then, I don't know. I have ahard time. Well, no, I get I get
it. I get the argument. Right.
(18:15):
So federal recognition, opens upthe doorway to resources. Yeah,
that's all it does. Right.
That's all so it's allrecognition. does. Does that.
Salisha Old Bull (18:29):
Does that sorry. For now? Yeah. I mean,
you get you get. Right. Yeah. Soif something happens at the
federal level, which, to me,doesn't seem very often. I feel
like the last time that thattribes got a real anything from
(18:49):
the federal level was whenCobell came through the Cobell
settlement. And they I mean, noteverybody got money from that
way. Lots of people got moneyfrom that. Well,
Shandin Pete (19:00):
well, well, not not just the settlements, but
Indian Health Service, SmallIndian, small business owners.
Anything related to federaldollars for Indian tribes, all
that opens up once you getrecognition. That's right. I
mean, is that right? That's it.
I think. I mean, that's Aaron.
(19:22):
Is that true?
Aaron Brien (19:25):
I don't know.
Shandin Pete (19:28):
Well, okay, I'm gonna say that's true. Once
you're nice recognized.
Aaron Brien (19:32):
You getting three swing allocations happen? Yes.
Well, yeah.
Shandin Pete (19:35):
Yeah. I mean, that's why else would you do it?
Well, no, I shouldn't say that.
Yeah, I'm saying gettingfederally recognized. Puts the
obligation onto the federalgovernment. Yeah, to fold you
into its wing as a Ward. Ward ofits rest. Yeah, well, Good.
Yeah. Well, so
Salisha Old Bull (20:03):
the twisted part about it is, so the twisted
part about it is what did welearn in college is where the
Indian problem, that's whatwe're taught in college where
the Indian problem and, and sowe've kind of preached that and
like that's, that's how thefederal government thought of us
(20:25):
and I feel like that's how we'restill kind of treated in the
United States In the UnitedStates, we're still treated
like, I don't know, we're notwe're not created, right anyway.
So if the backwards thing isthat they had systemic things in
place to try to terminate us, sothey can just call us a straight
(20:48):
American, take away, take awayall anything that makes us who
we are. And, and we're all,we're all twisted up, because on
one side, we get mad becausewe're on the pedigree system.
And on the other hand, we don'twant to let go of that, because
then we can't call ourself, youknow, federally recognized if,
(21:12):
if we don't abide by that, andthey got us in this weird little
bind, but like in the in thebeginning, that whole of the
things that they put in placewere meant to do, do it where
we're supposed to be terminatedeventually, you know, it was
supposed to, we were supposed tobe self, whatever, self
(21:35):
governing whatever, but notfederally recognized, not
dependent on on them, like theyweren't going to help us with
anything, but they don't. We'renot as far along, there's some
places, you know, like, we don'tget, I don't know, I'm getting,
I feel like I'm getting tooemotionally invested.
Shandin Pete (21:58):
And getting preachy. Getting too preachy,
let's, let's break this down.
Because it it's complicated.
It's complicated. Once you starttangling in with federal things,
when you start tangling in withtreaty language, I mean, it's
(22:18):
gets into this place, I don'tlike to go, man. I don't like
it. I don't like it at all. Butfundamentally, the issue that I
see is, no matter what this ideaof recognition, like the, it's
upheld, at least in this commentas, as some sort of hierarchy of
(22:45):
who's who, in Indian Country. Ifyou're federally recognized,
then apparently, the UnitedStates Government who's got a
lot of dollars, and then, youknow, accepts you as a ward of
the state, as up has anopportunity and obligation to
take care of you. That's whatrecognition feels like to me.
Salisha Old Bull (23:06):
So
Shandin Pete (23:08):
when I read these, these criteria for
acknowledgement of recognition,I'm gonna think Well, yeah, I
mean, if you have all thosethings in place, then what's the
big deal? Why do you even wantto be recognized? Half of the
tribes we have right now? Idon't think fit that criteria. I
mean, are we together? Weautonomous group? I mean, the
(23:31):
one that struck me was where itwas, it was a group comprised of
a distinct distinct community. Imean, yeah, I don't know. But
there's like this idea of, of,of a sort of tribal lifestyle
that's being maintained. And Idon't necessarily feel like
(23:54):
that's completely honest andtrue. today. I don't know.
Aaron, what do you think? Allright.
Aaron Brien (24:02):
Here we go. mic up.
Shandin Pete (24:09):
You get that mic fixed up?
Aaron Brien (24:11):
Well, first of all,
Shandin Pete (24:12):
tell me your thoughts.
Aaron Brien (24:14):
First of all, I thought this would be a funner
topic.
Shandin Pete (24:22):
Well, it can be I can be
Aaron Brien (24:25):
no okay. So I think we should be real clear for
those people who aren't from ourcountry or even understand the
very basics of the tribalsituation near. The term
federally recognized as yousaid, just implies that there's
(24:46):
a fiduciary responsibility onbehalf of the government for a
variety of things healthcare,education annuity, right and
there's this in the easiest wayto explain it is that Whether
there was a deal made, whetherit was a good deal or not, is
not the point. It's just this.
Yeah. This agreement that we'regonna we're not gonna go to the
(25:09):
reservation, but we were forcedon the reservations are Yeah.
But on. On that now we becamethe responsibility in theory of
the federal government. Now, Itried looking it up, I don't
know of any state processes forto be a state recognized tribe.
(25:30):
Right. Um, how you identify youryour federal recognition is your
tribe will have a criteria forenrollment to become a member of
the tribe, you get a littlecard, such as blood quantum and
everything. Yeah. Tribes. It'stypically one quarter, but it
(25:52):
varies from tribe to tribe interms of traceable native blood.
Yeah.
Shandin Pete (25:59):
Okay. Okay. Take a breath man.
Aaron Brien (26:10):
Man, imagine trying to explain this to somebody or
to like a seven year old orlike, because that's it doesn't
make any sense. Right? When Iused to teach history of Indians
in the US, yeah, at USC. Casey,I would start to the class the
course off with if you'relooking for this situation,
tribes today, to make sensethrough this history, you're
(26:34):
wrong class. It's not gonna makeany sense. There's things that
will happen through the courseof this class, even though
they're based on a timeline,they're not going to make any
sense. Because there wasn't arationale for some of this
behavior. Right. And which ledto policy right. Yeah. But we're
(26:58):
getting ahead of ourselves,because the situation at the
National Congress was not aboutthe process of federal
recognition or recognition. Itwas it was simpler, a little
more simple. Yeah, it waswhether or not the state tribes
state recognized tribes shouldbe allowed to be participants in
(27:18):
the National Congress ofAmerican Indian. Yeah. And men
is like, why don't why can'tthey? Why can't they join the
circus? Like, I just don't? It'slike, it's a club. First of all,
I'm gonna say something that'spretty controversial. Say it.
Okay. Okay. The NationalCongress of the American Indian
(27:39):
is typically not tribal peoplethat have the best interests of
tribal people. At the forefront.
The Congress has become thisclub of people, for whatever
reason to play government. It'sa form of man. Yeah. Okay. It's
a form. It's a form of like,high toning and prestige. And
(28:03):
it's kind of dislike by the Fordmentality. Again, it's still
this like, Yeah, let's go. Let'sgo beg for scraps and at the
foot of the crown. And I don'tunderstand why we still think
that this Congress is, isthinking of us here. Yeah.
Indian Country. Yeah. Yeah. And,and I do think the philosophy or
(28:26):
the, the, the mission of it, andits intent may have been good.
Yeah. If it's become a placewhere tribal leaders feel like
they can be little staterecognized tribes, when not
knowing the states tribessituation. Yeah, like I said,
(28:48):
the little shell band of theOjibwe, which is now a federally
recognized tribe, because oftiming and history and
situation, circumstance, was notpart of the process during that
time. Yeah. That doesn't meanthey're not tribal. And doesn't
mean they're any less tribalthan me, are you? And in fact, I
(29:10):
would say the majority offederally recognized tribes
today are not tribal. Right, asI was mentioning, and myself
included, right, like I'mwriting there. And so I don't
understand why this good ol boysclub can't just say, the more
the merrier. If we are acting onbehalf of all tribal people,
(29:31):
then why not let them come,maybe encouraged them to fulfill
that federal recognition ifthat's even what they want?
Yeah, the Menominee Nationactually fought against federal
recognition. Yeah. I don't knowif you remember that. There was
this kind of thing. And I thinkthey're federally recognized
(29:52):
again, but yeah, you have tribesthat were terminated during
termination. But yet thetermination process was a hell
of a lot quicker than theapplication process for
recognition. There's no rhyme orreason for some of this. Yeah.
So for I don't know, thechairman for the Ute tribe, and
(30:15):
I personally don't have anythingagainst him. Part of me because
I like, chaos sometimes was likethat. Maybe I don't know what
happened to lead him to, to saythose comments because, yeah,
maybe something happened that hethought I need to say this. This
used to happen. So context playsa big part. We don't know the
(30:37):
context. But I know mepersonally, I would never say
that a state recognized tribe isany less Indian than than me.
Right? Because even though I'vededicated a large portion of my
(30:58):
life, to being cultural, acultural person, I'm, I feel
less Indian than a lot ofpeople. You know what I mean? So
it's not like I can go and look,I can't look at somebody and say
that tribes not native. Right.
Yeah. Because I tell you what,man, when I'm sitting in
meetings with my little blazerjacket on my little sport coat,
(31:18):
and my little my little notepadand your fancy, do my fancy
coffee cup? I don't feel veryIndian there. Yeah. You know, I
mean, so. Yeah, ribbon circuit.
Yeah. I don't understand this,like, that mentality of like,
(31:44):
well, we're the ones closest tothe fort. You can join us
because you're gonna take mypowdered eggs. She had let them
have them. Yeah. Yeah. If theyweren't mediocre healthcare,
they can have it. Right. Yeah.
Salisha Old Bull (32:04):
Dr. giggles Dr. giggles Go ahead.
Aaron Brien (32:11):
Me, me personally, I would encourage recognize
tribes to find another way to besuccessful. Find another way to
make it because the Fed route isnot necessarily the way to go.
Yeah, but for some reason, we'vebought into this idea that the
federal recognition makes usnative. And it doesn't, we're
(32:33):
the only people that do it. Idon't understand it sometimes.
Just like, Chandi let me use youas an example. Okay. Do it. Are
you okay with me sharing some ofyour
Shandin Pete (32:49):
ancestry?
ancestry.com. Yeah, do it. Well,you know, your,
Aaron Brien (32:53):
your father's novel. Yeah. And your mother's
from barley. She's she's fromthe bitter bad of the Salish.
Yeah, but she's also mixed,right?
Shandin Pete (33:06):
Yeah. Yeah. Does not Norwegian, yet her dad's
Aaron Brien (33:09):
no reason. So yeah, you you, you've identified your
entire life as a Salish person.
Yeah. Okay. Most people that Iknow would recognize you, as a
salesperson. I don't know anyonethat's like, oh, Shawn Dean, the
Navajo guy. Like, I've neverheard that. Even though your
name Shawn Dean. Pete. Yeah,that's fine. It's still we think
(33:35):
we think of you not only beingSalish, but being like kind of
one of one of the younger peoplethat are heavily involved in
that culture. The identity at nopoint at no point is I ever
like, you know, Sunday. Ireally, I need to see your ID
Shandin Pete (33:56):
I need to check your federal recognition before
gonna
Aaron Brien (33:59):
do this. I mean, I really need to know that you're
legit. I never, I never didthat. And myself. Like, I'm not
a full blooded Crow Indian.
Right. So I actually haveancestry from the little shell.
Right. So does that make me lesscrow? I feel like it doesn't.
You don't make it. Yeah, crow.
Shandin Pete (34:22):
Yeah, it doesn't.
Aaron Brien (34:24):
We're all less we're all less than what we
should be. Yeah, like it'sidentity. It's the cultural part
of it that I'm worried about. So
Salisha Old Bull (34:35):
it's so messed up because it's like before,
before all of that happened, wemarried all kinds of people,
because nobody was ever going tobe 100%. That's crazy talk.
Aaron Brien (34:48):
Right? You're right. Yeah, you're totally
right.
Shandin Pete (34:52):
So this, okay, yeah,
Aaron Brien (34:53):
we're all mixed.
All three of us here would mix.
Yeah. Does and I don't feel likeat any point Did I look at you
or say Alicia and think you knowit, it kind of it devalues them
for me a little bit because mykids, my kids, their mother's
Blackfeet does that mean thatlike they're less crow or less
(35:15):
or more or whatever? Yeah. Andthat's not how the world works
like when you're working whenyou live in Indian country, and
you're doing the work to benative, that I think that
argument is not happening withyourself. It's only when you
step outside of the culturalworld and your fringed idea when
that identity things real Yeah,but when you're in sailors
(35:38):
doings you feel pretty Salish.
I'm sure don't don't feel like Igot to sit on the side where
only the the half breed sit,like this sort of thing. So So
when it comes down to beingNative, your enrollment card
doesn't have anything to do withit. What I will say there is
(35:59):
something to be said forancestry. Like where your where
your blood and your heritagedoes come from? Does that does
that mean it needs to bequantified? No. I don't think
so. Yeah, I would agree. I don'tthink so. Those who no no.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. It I feellike somebody who attacks state
(36:22):
recognized tribes albeit I don'tknow the situation is somebody
who themselves has identityproblems. Hmm.
Shandin Pete (36:34):
Might be
Salisha Old Bull (36:36):
I'll be Latin does that?
Shandin Pete (37:48):
Get it, I get it.
This is what I got from whatyou're saying. And I want to
interject like a feeling afeeling that I get. And I know
that some people get it too andI'm sure this person who said
this probably has the samefeeling. And but but I think
you're right, there's it goes alot deeper into the human
psychology of what we do and howwe say it because we have some
(38:10):
reservation about aboutsomething that something that
bothers us, and it gives us a Idon't know we just get this
instinct about things that mightbe wrong and might be right, but
our emotion takes over. So weall we all get bothered when we
(38:32):
see a group of people trying tobe what is obviously not an
authentic version of themselves,right? Like marijuana and when I
was a kid, we used to have thesewe used to call people posers.
Remember losers. Yeah. Becausewe were all metal hardcore metal
(38:55):
and then we seen somebody who,you know, they're they went and
bought an Iron Maiden t shirt.
And because it was trendy, thoseguys was a poser because
Aaron Brien (39:06):
it will probably not Iron Maiden. It's probably
Metallica. Oh, well. Yeah.
Shandin Pete (39:10):
You know, well see the entryway into heavy metal is
vast. Okay. And Iron Maiden wasone of the foundational bands
into heavy metal. They're notthat metal. But they got cool T
shirts.
Aaron Brien (39:28):
I would say I would say now we're heading into a
whole nother argument that Ifrankly am gonna love it
Shandin Pete (39:39):
what on it so I'm just the example is so you're in
a group who's obviously metalbecause he listened to Metallica
Slayer, your head banger. Youparty on the weekends you dress
the way that you ought to as ametal person. Then you see
somebody. I don't know how sickfor example, a jock? Knee starts
(39:59):
you You know, he buys the BlackAlbum and gets a Metallica t
shirt. That guy's a poserbecause he didn't hadn't lived
the lifestyle of a metal head upto that stage. So at what point
then, can that person enter intothe authentic metal heads? I
don't know. But when the personwell, when you see that person
(40:22):
and you instantly get thisfeeling like, oh, yeah, he
doesn't know, he doesn't knowwhat it's like to be us. And I
think that situation comes upoften. And we I, the episode we
had with Ryan Emanuel, and sortof open open my eyes, I mean,
not that I, my eyes were closed,but to it, I just didn't
(40:43):
understand the reality of thiswave of, of colonialism, that
tech came in, those people hadexperienced that at such such a
time period that we can't evenunderstand it feels like, but
yeah, so that that reality of,of where we're at in the West
versus where tribes are in theeast, I think is vastly
(41:03):
different. So imparting thatsort of judgment, you know, that
they are to be, you know,hardcore heavy metal. Dudes is
this, it doesn't apply. Itdoesn't apply. But where it does
apply is when people startparroting something that they're
not, and that feels wrong. Andwe see that often. And we talked
about it a while back and inacademics, when we get these
(41:27):
people who don't know a wholelot, but they're writing these
vast volumes about how we thinkand how we are, and it's off is
way off. It's way off. Yeah.
Aaron Brien (41:37):
But again, again, I think we're jumping the gun on
this. Okay, we're getting toofar. Okay. You're right. But
this simply just comes down to aclub.
Shandin Pete (41:49):
Yeah, that's, that's the important part.
That's important part. Yeah.
Yeah.
Aaron Brien (41:53):
Like all this stuff you're saying is legit. And all
the stuff said, it's just sayingis like, exactly, to the point.
But that's almost like a wholenother episode. Like this idea
of enrollment, this idea ofrecognition in the process and
what that means in terms oftreaty, Executive Order, tribe,
all that right. Like it's crazy.
This, this is a lot more simple.
(42:13):
Yes. Is a club. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that really has noauthority. Okay. By it's a club.
Shandin Pete (42:25):
Do they not have a third? Okay.
Salisha Old Bull (42:26):
Okay, let's back up there. They have their
their life? What is it? They'rethey're like a group of
politicians, a lot of them. Alot of them who have leadership,
or politicians who have theykind of do have a lot of
authority, because some of themare councilman, or in that guy's
case of business, businesscouncil? Well, I
Aaron Brien (42:48):
think individually, they have authority, but
Congress themselves. I've neverheard of a law being passed
because of the National Congressof American Indians. Whoa.
Salisha Old Bull (42:59):
Yeah. They're like the writers. They're like
the writers. They're like theauthors. They're like, right,
they'll write the language for abill and the bill will get
brought either to, you know, theHouse or the Senate. And then
those words are the things thatthe Congress, the elected
officials, they're reading.
Aaron Brien (43:20):
Like, lobby, like a lobby. Yeah,
Salisha Old Bull (43:21):
kinda Yeah.
But they're like that, thatthey're like the people who kind
of, they're helping to steer thepolicy, that, that the federal
government is, you know, whenthey decided to pass something,
you know, they're the ones whokind of are having those
conversations and trying tofigure out how to make those
(43:42):
changes. Let
Shandin Pete (43:46):
me read you the mission of the National Congress
of the American Indian reallysorry to clarify this, right.
It's very brief. So bullet pointnumber one of the mission of the
National Congress of AmericanIndians, protect and enhance
treaty and sovereign rights.
Bullet point number two, secureour traditional laws, cultures
and ways of life for ourdescendants. Number three,
(44:08):
bullet number three, promote acommon understanding of the
rightful place of tribes in thefamily, of American governments,
what And number four, improvethe quality of life for Native
communities and people? Let mereread that number three,
because I didn't get thatpromote a common understanding
(44:29):
of the rightful place of tribesin the family of American
governments.
Aaron Brien (44:40):
I think it's safe to say that I don't understand
what the Congress does. Yeah,
Salisha Old Bull (44:45):
they're like, it's like what you said they're
like, lobbyists are like, yeah,they're like the ones who sort
of swing around and say like,they try to like say, Well, this
is what RNA This is whatdifferent tribes want. This is
what we're buying. For an endo,like go visit the offices that
do see and try to get people tovote and they'll be the one to
(45:08):
sort of say, hey, you know,right, right in support of this,
blah, blah, blah. And
Shandin Pete (45:13):
yeah, apparently a unified voice of Indian country.
This is what it says on thewebsite since 1944. NCAA AI has
served as a unified voice forAmerican Indian and Alaska
Native issues. Yeah, so notreally like a law passing body.
But like a lobbying. It seemslike helping to guide policy.
Aaron Brien (45:35):
I don't want to be a part of the group. I don't
feel like I work. I work for atribal government. Yeah. I work
daily within cultural resourcelaw, which is Yeah. Really, like
it's this toolkit of law thattribes can use. I've never heard
once, ever, anything about theNational Congress of the
(45:59):
American Union? Yeah. Even whenI was at the National
Association of Tribal Historicpreservation officers, they
never said, This is what theCongress is doing in terms of
cultural resource law and how itcan help tribes never heard of
it. When I'm part of a tribalconsultation committee for our
region, which is in NorthDakota. You ever never seen it?
(46:20):
I don't. Yeah. I don't know whatthey do. Yeah, we should find a
member of
Shandin Pete (46:25):
it. We need to find a member because I think at
least I feel
Aaron Brien (46:29):
are whatever.
Salisha Old Bull (46:32):
Yeah, let's call the guy that you
Shandin Pete (46:36):
ask him. Well, if you listen to the Listen, what's
his name? Why are you why areyou so?
Aaron Brien (46:49):
into us, use micro X and I'll say yeah, Boo. Boo.
Are you mad?
Salisha Old Bull (46:58):
Calm down.
Aaron Brien (46:59):
Why not? Why not?
We need numbers, man.
Salisha Old Bull (47:02):
Ribbons. What about your one and a half hour?
prayer this morning? are welcomein prayer. Yeah. Yeah, in
vocational Yeah.
Shandin Pete (47:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Salisha Old Bull (47:22):
I thought this was gonna be in a good way. The
opposite, good way.
Shandin Pete (47:30):
Didn't start that Congress out in a good way. They
were taking our advice.
Aaron Brien (47:38):
He was like, they bought they go learn today.
Yeah.
Shandin Pete (47:43):
Well, you know what, there's something to be
said about that. Because youought to be able to speak your
mind. Like, I think it's okay.
If he said that what so? I don'tI don't not. That doesn't mean I
have to agree with him. I mean,people would you say people
should feel comfortable sayingthings that I say their mind but
not hateful mean. Dude, I
Aaron Brien (48:06):
say crazy stuff all the time. Yeah.
Shandin Pete (48:09):
But you have a somewhat of a filter. I said
somewhat.
Aaron Brien (48:18):
I mean, I wouldn't say anything like that like
that. Yeah,
Shandin Pete (48:22):
yeah. That's somewhat of a filter. You know,
you know, decency. You
Salisha Old Bull (48:26):
know where to draw the line decorum?
Shandin Pete (48:29):
I don't know. You do.
Aaron Brien (48:30):
We fought wars.
Well, you guys sat on thesidelines to start being Indian.
Salisha Old Bull (48:42):
First of all, like he's like, real young,
though. So what war did you
Aaron Brien (48:52):
see, I didn't see Apple.
Shandin Pete (48:57):
Turn at the Black Snake Genet where you
Aaron Brien (49:01):
were arrested. I didn't see you chaining yourself
to that bulldozer. I didn't seeyou running with the ancestors
at the knee. No, I just I knewwhat he was saying. Yeah, in a
way. Maybe he acknowledged likemaybe he was trying to say
(49:24):
something about too manyplayers. You know, because we've
all been in meetings where justtoo many people and muddies the
waters, you need to save somemoney. But I feel like he
started out like this. Hestarted out like, this is what
I'm going to say. And then hegot caught up in the heat of the
moment because he starts outwith this. I apologize to all
(49:44):
the state tribes in here. ButNCAI gave you the this false
sense of hope that it just goesdown. Yeah,
Shandin Pete (49:53):
wasn't the there's an apology always end with an
insult. Is that how it goes? I'msorry to say this to you the
insult, you know what he did? Hedid?
Aaron Brien (50:08):
With all due respect. So, yeah, I'd be
curious. I'd be curious to knowif he's going to have a response
to his own comments, you know,because yeah, I'm sure he's
gonna get lit up. Yeah. And theTwittersphere. One thing, one
(50:28):
thing about a lot of these guysthat I respect is like, they
don't care man, like, this guy'snot sure. He said what he wanted
to say. And, and, and in someways, maybe that's what the
Congress is for maybe that maybethose kinds of debates happen a
lot more. And someone justhappened to have their Twitter
on. But I just like who stillhas Twitter, though, for real?
(50:56):
Just, maybe, maybe that argumentneeds to happen, though. Yeah.
Shandin Pete (51:02):
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. All I
know, is it like you said, itcomes down to this really odd
thing. This club, this club,which we see also at an in, in a
microcosm of each, or manytribal nations are Confederate
Aaron Brien (51:26):
Mini with Joni mini Riccione.
Shandin Pete (51:30):
You see this, these clubs, and everybody knows
it. And it's just everybody'sfighting for scraps of the of
the federal pie. Meanwhile,inlet and these other people
that you're talking about, wejust we do our business. We do
our business. We do the thingsthat are listed on on this list
(51:51):
minus some of the some of thethings right, right, we don't
really need to demonstrate ouridentity to anybody, we just do
it, we're living it. And ourcommunities and our groups that
are cohesive, and in thatparticular way, they don't need
to be defined, they're definedin the things and the actions
that we do. We don't need tosend a governing document to
(52:12):
anybody to say this is how weexist as a, as a cultural
people. We don't need to provethat through documentation that
lines out how we govern, oranything like that we don't keep
a list of those who who areparticipants in in our cultural
pursuits. Yeah, that none ofthat exists, all this criteria
(52:34):
that put forth and that thatgets you into the club, is
really sort of the antithesis ofwhat a tribe is an ought to be,
I think, anyway. So I thinkthat's weird. When I when I read
this mission of the of thisCongress is, you know, to secure
traditional laws, cultures andway of life. It's, it seems
(52:56):
backwards, it seems like it'ssecuring the traditional laws
and cultures from 1936 forward,you know, the New Deal, you
know, the, the new theconstitution that all these
tribes get to have and get to bejust like, a small America, you
know, that. That's, that's whatit seems like to me. And I think
(53:20):
that's wrong.
Aaron Brien (53:22):
So you're right, I think, yeah,
Shandin Pete (53:24):
I think if you're if you're state recognized, man,
Aaron Brien (53:28):
don't worry about it.
Shandin Pete (53:30):
And, and some, some researchers and authors
have suggested that probably thebiggest motivation to get
federally recognized the so. Sothese tribes can build a casino.
I don't know if that's true ornot. I don't know. What the
(53:52):
motivation is.
Salisha Old Bull (53:53):
It seems like I don't know. I guess. It's just
hard to saw them political. Ijust noticed that there are
tribes that get real mad, theydo have that type of income.
And, yeah, and yeah, I think Ithink it's hard. It's hard to
(54:15):
understand because, becausewhere we come from, none of us
have had that none of us hadthat type of income coming in
and just like this huge influxof money, like none of us have
had that lower from right. Soyeah. It's the it feels like
that's, it's you know, it's hardto, it's hard to deny that
(54:40):
that's a factor. Right.
Shandin Pete (54:43):
Right. Yeah.
Casinos and weed. That's, thatseems like some of the driving
force behind tribalism today.
Aaron Brien (54:52):
All I know is they want to come into the champagne
room, let him in.
Shandin Pete (54:57):
The cork. The cork Man,
Aaron Brien (55:01):
because because they're not given to the dance,
they're going to realize all weshould have hung out outside.
Remember back in the day, whenyou when you used to party, and
you'd be in someone's garage, oryou'd be on someone's porch, and
you'd be having a good timeparty, and then somebody says,
let's go check out the bar, thenyou go to the bar, and then
you're like, go home. Yeah. Tome, that's what it is. It's
(55:31):
like, hey, guys want to come inand join us fed guys. But then
at the same time, we're like, Idon't know. Should we let them
in? It's like, I think they'recool. It's like, all right. I
mean, I don't know what you'regonna bring anything with them
already. We gotta like. Do justlet them in. Because guess what,
it's wack in here.
Shandin Pete (55:51):
Drink up all our stuff. Yeah,
Aaron Brien (55:57):
I do. And you know who I'm talking about?
Shandin Pete (56:01):
The same person all the time. The mooch leaves
with about six or seven cans inhis Levi jacket. Oh,
Aaron Brien (56:13):
he's giving them a ride.
Shandin Pete (56:17):
Because he got ditched because nobody wanted
him.
Aaron Brien (56:21):
Dude, I think we're thinking of the same person. it
well. No, no, I think one persongave.
Shandin Pete (56:31):
Oh, many people.
Yeah.
Aaron Brien (56:35):
See me Joey Johnny.
Shandin Pete (56:38):
Yeah, that's what it comes down to? I don't know
the answer. Well, I do know theanswer. I don't know. I guess
this is what I don't know is Idon't know, the feeling that the
state recognized tribes havetheir
Aaron Brien (56:55):
reality I gave you that. I wonder if someone was to
do? Yeah, sorry. No, go ahead. Iwonder if someone was to like
scope state tribes and say, whatis it you're actually looking
for? Yeah. Like, what do youthink? What do you is it an
identity thing? Right, you'relike, you need to be part of the
(57:15):
club? Or is this Is it as simpleas annuity and subsidies and tax
breaks? And yeah, and in thatcase, just turn your tribe into
a nonprofit? And then havememberships start a cult? You
know, I mean, because I don'tknow what it is. Yeah, I don't
quite know. I don't know. Yeah.
But then as we're also sittinghere from the side of that,
(57:38):
like, right, we enrolled, I'm anenrolled member of the Crow
tribe, like, yeah. So I don'tknow, I don't know what it's
like to be part of a staterecognized tribe or anything
like that. So
Shandin Pete (57:54):
I can imagine it the draw to have, you know,
dollars to, you know, buildhousing for your people or, you
know, to reacquire yourtraditional lands. To develop
again, we're
Aaron Brien (58:10):
jumping ahead. I know, I know. It's really just
about this club. This club. It's
Shandin Pete (58:16):
not a Yeah, it's not even about recognition. It's
about the club. It's a bookclub, that these they won rights
to vote in this club. What arethey voting for? Voting for what
I voted on,
Aaron Brien (58:29):
whether they're gonna have it at the Hard Rock
next year, or Changa. Dude, Idon't know.
Shandin Pete (58:36):
Why are we so out of the loop on this? These guys
are representing us. Right? Whydon't know, that's because
Aaron Brien (58:42):
they're not representing us.
Salisha Old Bull (58:43):
We're talking about Thanksgiving.
Shandin Pete (58:47):
representing this?
Well, you know, we've been onthis for a while. I think we
beat it. Yeah. We know, we knowthat. We got all the answers.
Just follow what we said. Andeverything will be cool. No, I
don't think so. No, but there'sa lot of unknowns. There's a lot
of perspectives, and this justhappened. And this just
happened. So it's fairly new.
Salisha Old Bull (59:09):
It's just happened. What did
Aaron Brien (59:15):
just happen? Let's see what happens in the next few
days. And then yeah,
Shandin Pete (59:20):
see if we get canceled.
Aaron Brien (59:23):
No, we don't say anything too controversial. I
sound like a political group.
Shandin Pete (59:30):
Pretty clear.
Yeah.
Salisha Old Bull (59:31):
It's pretty clear. What matters, dad. Okay,
well, let's read your dad.
Aaron Brien (59:40):
You're mad at your dad. Alright, let's do it.
Everybody
Shandin Pete (01:00:00):
Okay
Hey Walgren just called me Should I call him
back live?
Shandin Pete (00:05):
Okay, yeah, go ahead see what happens.
Aaron Brien (00:12):
Hello? Hey, what's going on? He left us on a
cliffhanger. What the hellshut off the live wait for you
(00:35):
guys to pinpoint what was beingsaid at what happened? Hey man,
you got to we're recording rightnow that's the whole point on a
cliffhanger you can't do that wehad to let
Shandin Pete (01:00):
them monetize this. We got to monetize
preview. Yeah,
Aaron Brien (01:04):
yeah we gave you a trailer man trailer in a trailer
you're able to look it up. He's
Shandin Pete (01:13):
gonna look it up.
Aaron Brien (01:15):
Yeah, look up and see a I incident or whatever.
And we're going to talk about itand you'll just have to wait
seven weeks for the episode. Onthe clip weeks, six to eight
weeks. If it goes any longergive us a call
(01:41):
Did you hear me say yeah, cookdinner. cook me some goulash.
I'll come up and we'll visit.
Yeah, spaghetti. Do it. I'vebeen waiting for like two years
for you to invite me over fordinner. We told you like Walter
does that invitation thing heinvites me over to dinner but
doesn't tell me where he livesinvite you telling me where you
(02:07):
live. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry, bro.
On a cliffhanger. Where's thatthing again? NCAI. Yeah,
National Congress of America ofthe American Indian. Look it up.
(02:27):
But we're recording right now sofatally stabbed?
Salisha Old Bull (02:30):
He was trying to defeat the fight that way. It
might be might be that might be.
Aaron Brien (02:44):
Yeah, we need the link. We're going to talk about
it right now.
So we can cliffhanger. Hold myarm hold on that one and see a
doo doo just send them the link.
Similarly, just put them on thepodcast. It just took too much
(03:04):
time. You can you can take itoff.
Shandin Pete (03:11):
Oh no. We're gonna leave it. It's the impromptu.
Impromptu impromptu.
Like impromptu. But almost.
Aaron Brien (03:23):
It was almost like a good segue like Walt asking
what why we left them hanging.
Shandin Pete (03:28):
Yeah, it is. It is. So yeah, this is so this is
the deal. And we've got what gotsome.
Aaron Brien (03:38):
I got it transcribed. What
Shandin Pete (03:41):
is it? Oh, you got it transparent?
Aaron Brien (03:43):
Yeah, well read it.
Okay. You're
Shandin Pete (03:46):
gonna give us context first or no? No,
Aaron Brien (03:48):
no, no. All right.
Just go read it. The contextafter it says I'll try. Okay.
Says I apologize to all thestate tribes in here. But NCAA
AI gave you the false hope thatthat we are all the same. We are
not. We are federally recognizedfor a reason. We fought these
wars while you guys sat on thesidelines and waited until the
(04:12):
dust had settled. You guys arecoming out of the woodwork to
start being Indian. The crowdstarts booing and then he says
well get some federalrecognition. There's a process
and quote, That was a quote fromthe southern you check tribal
(04:32):
chairman.
Shandin Pete (04:36):
I don't think it's Sunday. No, no, not southern
you. Northern you. Just you justused Oh,
Aaron Brien (04:42):
I didn't know there was okay. So just you the you
chairman. That
Shandin Pete (04:46):
yeah, yeah. That Yeah. gets pretty clear. Yeah.
And I don't know the difference.
I'm not familiar with thatregion, a whole lot difference
Aaron Brien (04:56):
our deference in And both. Yeah,
Shandin Pete (05:02):
so this we haven't really talked about this a whole
lot we kind of skirt around it.
And it has it's related toidentity. Why we
Aaron Brien (05:10):
talked about it a little bit. Oh, give the context
give the context though. Oh,
Shandin Pete (05:14):
the context. So I think its annual right, this
convention or this Congress, theNational Congress of the
American Indian. So, admittedly,I'm unfamiliar with what this
organization does. I'munfamiliar with how often they
(05:38):
meet, I think they meet once ayear, maybe? I don't know. Okay,
so let's just say no. I don'tnot sure how many members they
have, or what tribes areinvolved. So I'm going in pretty
ignorant. It's a start. They'repretty ignorant. But apparently,
there's an amendment to theirconstitution. Their bylaws? I
(06:00):
don't know. Apparently, thisorganization has bylaws and a
constitution? I don't know. It'sa big organization. So they have
to have some sort of writtenrules, which is kind of odd to
me. Right off? Well, I don'tknow. And the amendment is to
remove state, state recognizedtribes, as voting members from
(06:25):
the Congress of the Congress ofthe American Indian or National
Congress has him Yeah. Okay.
That's as far as I know. And Igot this, seen this on Twitter,
this little clip of thisgentleman making a statement,
and a number of other tribalrepresentatives made not a
statement to that effect, butagain, supporting the amendment
(06:47):
saying that, yeah, we're, I'm,I'm for this amendment. state
recognized tribes should nothave voting power in this
Congress. So he's not the onlyone. He's just the one who's
happened to get blasted onTwitter or ex formerly known as
Twitter.
Salisha Old Bull (07:07):
Isn't the one he's the one who went up there
and said it.
Shandin Pete (07:10):
Yeah. Yeah. So this is, this is what I'm
curious about, and maybesolution, or Aaron can clarify.
But I was curious, when I heardthat. I thought, well, what what
is this process? And what doesthe tribe have to do? To get
federal federally recognized?
There's seven, there's sevencriteria, mandatory criteria.
(07:31):
And apparently, four, only fourare really the most difficult.
And those criteria are numberone. And this one seems like
straightforward that a tribe orthe petitioner, whoever is
trying to get federalrecognition, should demonstrate
(07:52):
that it has been identified asan American Indian entity, on a
substantially continuous basissince the 1900s. Or since 1900.
criteria. Number one, that'sfair, right? That's like saying
you can just all sudden claim tobe a tribe. If you hadn't been
since, and I don't know why1900. But I guess 1900. What do
(08:14):
you weigh in on that? That fair?
unfair. Maybe this is notsomething we need to talk about.
Salisha Old Bull (08:25):
I have to hear the rest of them because I'm
pretty rusty. As
Shandin Pete (08:29):
to the rest.
There's some problems here, evenfrom the get go on a conceptual
basis, though, right? On aconceptual basis. Well, the
whole
Aaron Brien (08:40):
idea of recognition is weird anyway, but Yeah, do
that. Do the rest. Okay.
Shandin Pete (08:45):
Okay. Number two, show. Number two is show that a
predominant portion of thepetitioning group comprises a
distinct community, and hasexisted as a community from
historical times until present.
Aaron Brien (09:02):
What are their lyrical, but well, for them?
They already said it in thefirst one, it's 19. Yeah, that's
kind of redundant, right? Soit's sort of dug into
Shandin Pete (09:10):
those. It does feel Dundon redundant. Number
three, now, this is this is kindof a tough one here demonstrate
that it has maintained politicalinfluence, or authority over its
members, as an autonomous entityfrom historical times and tell
(09:31):
present. So again, historicaltimes, I don't know, but
maintain political influence orauthority over its members, as
an autonomous entity. Okay.
Number four, provide a copy ofthe group's present governing
document what including itsmembership criteria, okay. All
right. This is getting kind ofcrazy here to me. Anyway, number
(09:51):
five. So this is all just for atribe right? To get federal
recognition. procedures forestablishing that an American
Indian group exists as an Indiantribe. That's what it is. All
right, number five demonstratethat its membership consists of
individuals who descended fromthe historical Indian tribes or
from historical Indian tribes ortribe or tribes that combined
(10:14):
and functioned as a singleautonomous political entity and
provided a current membershiplist. Number six show that the
membership of the petitioninggroup is comprised principally
of persons who are not membersof any acknowledged North
American Indian tribe. Andfinally, number seven
demonstrate that either thepetitioner nor its members are
(10:35):
the subject of congressionallegislation that has expressly
terminated or forbidden thefederal relationship. If the
criteria is considered met, ifthe available evidence
establishes a reasonablelikelihood of the validity of
the facts related to thatcriterion, then they're
federally recognized. All right,go, go.
(11:02):
Tell me your grapes. You had
Salisha Old Bull (11:05):
there's part of the list is like a chicken,
what comes first the chicken orthe egg question? Okay. So the
issue is, there's tribes,there's tribes that tried to get
federally recognized that weredisplaced during reservation
(11:26):
era. Right. And because ofwhatever disagreement that they
they had in a political contextwith, like knit, like tribes
that they would normally allywith, somehow they would get
split. Because how hard it wasduring that time. Yeah. And so
(11:54):
those tribes, when it came downto the federal government coming
in and doing the allotment,they, they didn't get assigned
anywhere, because they weretraveling or because they
couldn't, they couldn't partnerwith their normal partners, like
(12:19):
something come up, and theydecided to go this direction or
that direction, or maybe theyjust weren't getting along, or
who knows? They. So those wouldbe like landless tribes. And
they never got assignedanywhere. So then. So there's a
tribe like that in Montana, andit seems like, Okay, I'm getting
(12:42):
ahead of myself. But the, thecriteria that is there, one of
them says something aboutproving historical context, one
of them says something about apolitical political history.
Yeah. They're supposed toprovide like, evidence of this.
(13:03):
Yeah. And then when they submitthose things, it goes to
Washington, DC. Yeah. And itgets put on a pile of lists of
like, somebody has to reviewthese applications. In turn. I
don't know somebody, somebodyreviews it. And always, always
(13:28):
one of those things. It's like acircular argument. It's like you
can't have you can't prove thatyou had this. If if you didn't
have the documentation, likelet's say, what was early
documentation, like a treaty,like you can, like if you were
omitted from the treaty, thenyou don't have documentation.
(13:50):
But the whole, the whole purposeis you're they're trying to say,
well, that's what we're tryingto tell you is, we didn't we
didn't get not that they wanteda treaty. But it's like, well,
we didn't get on that. And soyeah, we don't have a
documentation to show you. Likewe just know that we were here.
Yeah. And so the arguments nowwhen it comes down to is because
(14:19):
because some states, theirtribe, the tribe is on. Like,
they don't rely on like casinoincome or anything like that.
They're like a resource. It'smore like a resource income,
like a dam or something likesomething weird like that, where
(14:39):
it's a very small income and itgets distributed in some states.
Or maybe it is a question, whoknows? Anyway, it comes down to
the breakdown of resources. Thateven though there's like oral
history, or even though there'sa Um, there might be some
(15:01):
documentation written like, oh,yeah, there was this band that
went off. So in Montana waslike, over by Great Falls, the
little shell tribe is one that'sa state recognized tribe, even
though like the surroundingchild would have a stories about
their existence. That circularargument comes back. And, and so
(15:28):
so the politics becomes or theYeah, the politics becomes like,
well, it comes down to resourceslike, like a tribe doesn't want
to accept the whole group of anentire group of like descendants
or descendant of that tribe, orthey don't want to accept that.
(15:48):
And because then that means youhave to split the resources with
with that tribe. And peopledon't like to talk about that.
But that's really what it alwaysis, is like, and those are,
those are like, the politiciansof the tribe, you know, like,
the politicians will say, like,will doubt no one ever say it,
(16:10):
but it usually always comes downto money, like people don't want
to let go of any type of moneythat is coming in. And so then
they do this, like, don't wantto aid a the child to get
accepted. But in this instance,with the National Congress,
(16:30):
yeah, I think it's a little bitunfair, like, I'm just gonna,
I'm just gonna say it's a littlebit unfair, because there's some
tribes that legitimately havebeen fighting for pretty much
forever trying to get some typeof some type of recognition. And
to have somebody say thatthey're just not trying to be
(16:53):
native or whatever he said. It'ssuper insulting, because it's
like, well, they've been trying,it's just that the criteria that
the federal government has,which hasn't been changed? Yeah.
It's really hard to, it's reallyhard to get the evidence that
they want. And in the, in theway that they want it in order
(17:16):
to be federally recognized.
Yeah. And it's that and it'seven become, to the point where
probably in the last 10 years,tribes have to existing
federally recognized tribes havefought to disenroll or
unrecognized tribes for whateverreason. Right. So that's
(17:41):
happened. I can't remember thename of that type. That got
unrecognized, but um, and he'sin eastern United States.
Shandin Pete (17:55):
So yeah, so that so the deal, so boils down to
this idea of recognition. Andthis this criteria that's put in
place by the federal government.
So then, I don't know. I have ahard time. Well, no, I get I get
it. I get the argument. Right.
(18:15):
So federal recognition, opens upthe doorway to resources. Yeah,
that's all it does. Right.
That's all so it's allrecognition. does. Does that.
Salisha Old Bull (18:29):
Does that sorry. For now? Yeah. I mean,
you get you get. Right. Yeah. Soif something happens at the
federal level, which, to me,doesn't seem very often. I feel
like the last time that thattribes got a real anything from
(18:49):
the federal level was whenCobell came through the Cobell
settlement. And they I mean, noteverybody got money from that
way. Lots of people got moneyfrom that. Well,
Shandin Pete (19:00):
well, well, not not just the settlements, but
Indian Health Service, SmallIndian, small business owners.
Anything related to federaldollars for Indian tribes, all
that opens up once you getrecognition. That's right. I
mean, is that right? That's it.
I think. I mean, that's Aaron.
(19:22):
Is that true?
Aaron Brien (19:25):
I don't know.
Shandin Pete (19:28):
Well, okay, I'm gonna say that's true. Once
you're nice recognized.
Aaron Brien (19:32):
You getting three swing allocations happen? Yes.
Well, yeah.
Shandin Pete (19:35):
Yeah. I mean, that's why else would you do it?
Well, no, I shouldn't say that.
Yeah, I'm saying gettingfederally recognized. Puts the
obligation onto the federalgovernment. Yeah, to fold you
into its wing as a Ward. Ward ofits rest. Yeah, well, Good.
Yeah. Well, so
Salisha Old Bull (20:03):
the twisted part about it is, so the twisted
part about it is what did welearn in college is where the
Indian problem, that's whatwe're taught in college where
the Indian problem and, and sowe've kind of preached that and
like that's, that's how thefederal government thought of us
(20:25):
and I feel like that's how we'restill kind of treated in the
United States In the UnitedStates, we're still treated
like, I don't know, we're notwe're not created, right anyway.
So if the backwards thing isthat they had systemic things in
place to try to terminate us, sothey can just call us a straight
(20:48):
American, take away, take awayall anything that makes us who
we are. And, and we're all,we're all twisted up, because on
one side, we get mad becausewe're on the pedigree system.
And on the other hand, we don'twant to let go of that, because
then we can't call ourself, youknow, federally recognized if,
(21:12):
if we don't abide by that, andthey got us in this weird little
bind, but like in the in thebeginning, that whole of the
things that they put in placewere meant to do, do it where
we're supposed to be terminatedeventually, you know, it was
supposed to, we were supposed tobe self, whatever, self
(21:35):
governing whatever, but notfederally recognized, not
dependent on on them, like theyweren't going to help us with
anything, but they don't. We'renot as far along, there's some
places, you know, like, we don'tget, I don't know, I'm getting,
I feel like I'm getting tooemotionally invested.
Shandin Pete (21:58):
And getting preachy. Getting too preachy,
let's, let's break this down.
Because it it's complicated.
It's complicated. Once you starttangling in with federal things,
when you start tangling in withtreaty language, I mean, it's
(22:18):
gets into this place, I don'tlike to go, man. I don't like
it. I don't like it at all. Butfundamentally, the issue that I
see is, no matter what this ideaof recognition, like the, it's
upheld, at least in this commentas, as some sort of hierarchy of
(22:45):
who's who, in Indian Country. Ifyou're federally recognized,
then apparently, the UnitedStates Government who's got a
lot of dollars, and then, youknow, accepts you as a ward of
the state, as up has anopportunity and obligation to
take care of you. That's whatrecognition feels like to me.
Salisha Old Bull (23:06):
So
Shandin Pete (23:08):
when I read these, these criteria for
acknowledgement of recognition,I'm gonna think Well, yeah, I
mean, if you have all thosethings in place, then what's the
big deal? Why do you even wantto be recognized? Half of the
tribes we have right now? Idon't think fit that criteria. I
mean, are we together? Weautonomous group? I mean, the
(23:31):
one that struck me was where itwas, it was a group comprised of
a distinct distinct community. Imean, yeah, I don't know. But
there's like this idea of, of,of a sort of tribal lifestyle
that's being maintained. And Idon't necessarily feel like
(23:54):
that's completely honest andtrue. today. I don't know.
Aaron, what do you think? Allright.
Aaron Brien (24:02):
Here we go. mic up.
Shandin Pete (24:09):
You get that mic fixed up?
Aaron Brien (24:11):
Well, first of all,
Shandin Pete (24:12):
tell me your thoughts.
Aaron Brien (24:14):
First of all, I thought this would be a funner
topic.
Shandin Pete (24:22):
Well, it can be I can be
Aaron Brien (24:25):
no okay. So I think we should be real clear for
those people who aren't from ourcountry or even understand the
very basics of the tribalsituation near. The term
federally recognized as yousaid, just implies that there's
(24:46):
a fiduciary responsibility onbehalf of the government for a
variety of things healthcare,education annuity, right and
there's this in the easiest wayto explain it is that Whether
there was a deal made, whetherit was a good deal or not, is
not the point. It's just this.
Yeah. This agreement that we'regonna we're not gonna go to the
(25:09):
reservation, but we were forcedon the reservations are Yeah.
But on. On that now we becamethe responsibility in theory of
the federal government. Now, Itried looking it up, I don't
know of any state processes forto be a state recognized tribe.
(25:30):
Right. Um, how you identify youryour federal recognition is your
tribe will have a criteria forenrollment to become a member of
the tribe, you get a littlecard, such as blood quantum and
everything. Yeah. Tribes. It'stypically one quarter, but it
(25:52):
varies from tribe to tribe interms of traceable native blood.
Yeah.
Shandin Pete (25:59):
Okay. Okay. Take a breath man.
Aaron Brien (26:10):
Man, imagine trying to explain this to somebody or
to like a seven year old orlike, because that's it doesn't
make any sense. Right? When Iused to teach history of Indians
in the US, yeah, at USC. Casey,I would start to the class the
course off with if you'relooking for this situation,
tribes today, to make sensethrough this history, you're
(26:34):
wrong class. It's not gonna makeany sense. There's things that
will happen through the courseof this class, even though
they're based on a timeline,they're not going to make any
sense. Because there wasn't arationale for some of this
behavior. Right. And which ledto policy right. Yeah. But we're
(26:58):
getting ahead of ourselves,because the situation at the
National Congress was not aboutthe process of federal
recognition or recognition. Itwas it was simpler, a little
more simple. Yeah, it waswhether or not the state tribes
state recognized tribes shouldbe allowed to be participants in
(27:18):
the National Congress ofAmerican Indian. Yeah. And men
is like, why don't why can'tthey? Why can't they join the
circus? Like, I just don't? It'slike, it's a club. First of all,
I'm gonna say something that'spretty controversial. Say it.
Okay. Okay. The NationalCongress of the American Indian
(27:39):
is typically not tribal peoplethat have the best interests of
tribal people. At the forefront.
The Congress has become thisclub of people, for whatever
reason to play government. It'sa form of man. Yeah. Okay. It's
a form. It's a form of like,high toning and prestige. And
(28:03):
it's kind of dislike by the Fordmentality. Again, it's still
this like, Yeah, let's go. Let'sgo beg for scraps and at the
foot of the crown. And I don'tunderstand why we still think
that this Congress is, isthinking of us here. Yeah.
Indian Country. Yeah. Yeah. And,and I do think the philosophy or
(28:26):
the, the, the mission of it, andits intent may have been good.
Yeah. If it's become a placewhere tribal leaders feel like
they can be little staterecognized tribes, when not
knowing the states tribessituation. Yeah, like I said,
(28:48):
the little shell band of theOjibwe, which is now a federally
recognized tribe, because oftiming and history and
situation, circumstance, was notpart of the process during that
time. Yeah. That doesn't meanthey're not tribal. And doesn't
mean they're any less tribalthan me, are you? And in fact, I
(29:10):
would say the majority offederally recognized tribes
today are not tribal. Right, asI was mentioning, and myself
included, right, like I'mwriting there. And so I don't
understand why this good ol boysclub can't just say, the more
the merrier. If we are acting onbehalf of all tribal people,
(29:31):
then why not let them come,maybe encouraged them to fulfill
that federal recognition ifthat's even what they want?
Yeah, the Menominee Nationactually fought against federal
recognition. Yeah. I don't knowif you remember that. There was
this kind of thing. And I thinkthey're federally recognized
(29:52):
again, but yeah, you have tribesthat were terminated during
termination. But yet thetermination process was a hell
of a lot quicker than theapplication process for
recognition. There's no rhyme orreason for some of this. Yeah.
So for I don't know, thechairman for the Ute tribe, and
(30:15):
I personally don't have anythingagainst him. Part of me because
I like, chaos sometimes was likethat. Maybe I don't know what
happened to lead him to, to saythose comments because, yeah,
maybe something happened that hethought I need to say this. This
used to happen. So context playsa big part. We don't know the
(30:37):
context. But I know mepersonally, I would never say
that a state recognized tribe isany less Indian than than me.
Right? Because even though I'vededicated a large portion of my
(30:58):
life, to being cultural, acultural person, I'm, I feel
less Indian than a lot ofpeople. You know what I mean? So
it's not like I can go and look,I can't look at somebody and say
that tribes not native. Right.
Yeah. Because I tell you what,man, when I'm sitting in
meetings with my little blazerjacket on my little sport coat,
(31:18):
and my little my little notepadand your fancy, do my fancy
coffee cup? I don't feel veryIndian there. Yeah. You know, I
mean, so. Yeah, ribbon circuit.
Yeah. I don't understand this,like, that mentality of like,
(31:44):
well, we're the ones closest tothe fort. You can join us
because you're gonna take mypowdered eggs. She had let them
have them. Yeah. Yeah. If theyweren't mediocre healthcare,
they can have it. Right. Yeah.
Salisha Old Bull (32:04):
Dr. giggles Dr. giggles Go ahead.
Aaron Brien (32:11):
Me, me personally, I would encourage recognize
tribes to find another way to besuccessful. Find another way to
make it because the Fed route isnot necessarily the way to go.
Yeah, but for some reason, we'vebought into this idea that the
federal recognition makes usnative. And it doesn't, we're
(32:33):
the only people that do it. Idon't understand it sometimes.
Just like, Chandi let me use youas an example. Okay. Do it. Are
you okay with me sharing some ofyour
Shandin Pete (32:49):
ancestry?
ancestry.com. Yeah, do it. Well,you know, your,
Aaron Brien (32:53):
your father's novel. Yeah. And your mother's
from barley. She's she's fromthe bitter bad of the Salish.
Yeah, but she's also mixed,right?
Shandin Pete (33:06):
Yeah. Yeah. Does not Norwegian, yet her dad's
Aaron Brien (33:09):
no reason. So yeah, you you, you've identified your
entire life as a Salish person.
Yeah. Okay. Most people that Iknow would recognize you, as a
salesperson. I don't know anyonethat's like, oh, Shawn Dean, the
Navajo guy. Like, I've neverheard that. Even though your
name Shawn Dean. Pete. Yeah,that's fine. It's still we think
(33:35):
we think of you not only beingSalish, but being like kind of
one of one of the younger peoplethat are heavily involved in
that culture. The identity at nopoint at no point is I ever
like, you know, Sunday. Ireally, I need to see your ID
Shandin Pete (33:56):
I need to check your federal recognition before
gonna
Aaron Brien (33:59):
do this. I mean, I really need to know that you're
legit. I never, I never didthat. And myself. Like, I'm not
a full blooded Crow Indian.
Right. So I actually haveancestry from the little shell.
Right. So does that make me lesscrow? I feel like it doesn't.
You don't make it. Yeah, crow.
Shandin Pete (34:22):
Yeah, it doesn't.
Aaron Brien (34:24):
We're all less we're all less than what we
should be. Yeah, like it'sidentity. It's the cultural part
of it that I'm worried about. So
Salisha Old Bull (34:35):
it's so messed up because it's like before,
before all of that happened, wemarried all kinds of people,
because nobody was ever going tobe 100%. That's crazy talk.
Aaron Brien (34:48):
Right? You're right. Yeah, you're totally
right.
Shandin Pete (34:52):
So this, okay, yeah,
Aaron Brien (34:53):
we're all mixed.
All three of us here would mix.
Yeah. Does and I don't feel likeat any point Did I look at you
or say Alicia and think you knowit, it kind of it devalues them
for me a little bit because mykids, my kids, their mother's
Blackfeet does that mean thatlike they're less crow or less
(35:15):
or more or whatever? Yeah. Andthat's not how the world works
like when you're working whenyou live in Indian country, and
you're doing the work to benative, that I think that
argument is not happening withyourself. It's only when you
step outside of the culturalworld and your fringed idea when
that identity things real Yeah,but when you're in sailors
(35:38):
doings you feel pretty Salish.
I'm sure don't don't feel like Igot to sit on the side where
only the the half breed sit,like this sort of thing. So So
when it comes down to beingNative, your enrollment card
doesn't have anything to do withit. What I will say there is
(35:59):
something to be said forancestry. Like where your where
your blood and your heritagedoes come from? Does that does
that mean it needs to bequantified? No. I don't think
so. Yeah, I would agree. I don'tthink so. Those who no no.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. It I feellike somebody who attacks state
(36:22):
recognized tribes albeit I don'tknow the situation is somebody
who themselves has identityproblems. Hmm.
Shandin Pete (36:34):
Might be
Salisha Old Bull (36:36):
I'll be Latin does that?
Shandin Pete (37:48):
Get it, I get it.
This is what I got from whatyou're saying. And I want to
interject like a feeling afeeling that I get. And I know
that some people get it too andI'm sure this person who said
this probably has the samefeeling. And but but I think
you're right, there's it goes alot deeper into the human
psychology of what we do and howwe say it because we have some
(38:10):
reservation about aboutsomething that something that
bothers us, and it gives us a Idon't know we just get this
instinct about things that mightbe wrong and might be right, but
our emotion takes over. So weall we all get bothered when we
(38:32):
see a group of people trying tobe what is obviously not an
authentic version of themselves,right? Like marijuana and when I
was a kid, we used to have thesewe used to call people posers.
Remember losers. Yeah. Becausewe were all metal hardcore metal
(38:55):
and then we seen somebody who,you know, they're they went and
bought an Iron Maiden t shirt.
And because it was trendy, thoseguys was a poser because
Aaron Brien (39:06):
it will probably not Iron Maiden. It's probably
Metallica. Oh, well. Yeah.
Shandin Pete (39:10):
You know, well see the entryway into heavy metal is
vast. Okay. And Iron Maiden wasone of the foundational bands
into heavy metal. They're notthat metal. But they got cool T
shirts.
Aaron Brien (39:28):
I would say I would say now we're heading into a
whole nother argument that Ifrankly am gonna love it
Shandin Pete (39:39):
what on it so I'm just the example is so you're in
a group who's obviously metalbecause he listened to Metallica
Slayer, your head banger. Youparty on the weekends you dress
the way that you ought to as ametal person. Then you see
somebody. I don't know how sickfor example, a jock? Knee starts
(39:59):
you You know, he buys the BlackAlbum and gets a Metallica t
shirt. That guy's a poserbecause he didn't hadn't lived
the lifestyle of a metal head upto that stage. So at what point
then, can that person enter intothe authentic metal heads? I
don't know. But when the personwell, when you see that person
(40:22):
and you instantly get thisfeeling like, oh, yeah, he
doesn't know, he doesn't knowwhat it's like to be us. And I
think that situation comes upoften. And we I, the episode we
had with Ryan Emanuel, and sortof open open my eyes, I mean,
not that I, my eyes were closed,but to it, I just didn't
(40:43):
understand the reality of thiswave of, of colonialism, that
tech came in, those people hadexperienced that at such such a
time period that we can't evenunderstand it feels like, but
yeah, so that that reality of,of where we're at in the West
versus where tribes are in theeast, I think is vastly
(41:03):
different. So imparting thatsort of judgment, you know, that
they are to be, you know,hardcore heavy metal. Dudes is
this, it doesn't apply. Itdoesn't apply. But where it does
apply is when people startparroting something that they're
not, and that feels wrong. Andwe see that often. And we talked
about it a while back and inacademics, when we get these
(41:27):
people who don't know a wholelot, but they're writing these
vast volumes about how we thinkand how we are, and it's off is
way off. It's way off. Yeah.
Aaron Brien (41:37):
But again, again, I think we're jumping the gun on
this. Okay, we're getting toofar. Okay. You're right. But
this simply just comes down to aclub.
Shandin Pete (41:49):
Yeah, that's, that's the important part.
That's important part. Yeah.
Yeah.
Aaron Brien (41:53):
Like all this stuff you're saying is legit. And all
the stuff said, it's just sayingis like, exactly, to the point.
But that's almost like a wholenother episode. Like this idea
of enrollment, this idea ofrecognition in the process and
what that means in terms oftreaty, Executive Order, tribe,
all that right. Like it's crazy.
This, this is a lot more simple.
(42:13):
Yes. Is a club. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that really has noauthority. Okay. By it's a club.
Shandin Pete (42:25):
Do they not have a third? Okay.
Salisha Old Bull (42:26):
Okay, let's back up there. They have their
their life? What is it? They'rethey're like a group of
politicians, a lot of them. Alot of them who have leadership,
or politicians who have theykind of do have a lot of
authority, because some of themare councilman, or in that guy's
case of business, businesscouncil? Well, I
Aaron Brien (42:48):
think individually, they have authority, but
Congress themselves. I've neverheard of a law being passed
because of the National Congressof American Indians. Whoa.
Salisha Old Bull (42:59):
Yeah. They're like the writers. They're like
the writers. They're like theauthors. They're like, right,
they'll write the language for abill and the bill will get
brought either to, you know, theHouse or the Senate. And then
those words are the things thatthe Congress, the elected
officials, they're reading.
Aaron Brien (43:20):
Like, lobby, like a lobby. Yeah,
Salisha Old Bull (43:21):
kinda Yeah.
But they're like that, thatthey're like the people who kind
of, they're helping to steer thepolicy, that, that the federal
government is, you know, whenthey decided to pass something,
you know, they're the ones whokind of are having those
conversations and trying tofigure out how to make those
(43:42):
changes. Let
Shandin Pete (43:46):
me read you the mission of the National Congress
of the American Indian reallysorry to clarify this, right.
It's very brief. So bullet pointnumber one of the mission of the
National Congress of AmericanIndians, protect and enhance
treaty and sovereign rights.
Bullet point number two, secureour traditional laws, cultures
and ways of life for ourdescendants. Number three,
(44:08):
bullet number three, promote acommon understanding of the
rightful place of tribes in thefamily, of American governments,
what And number four, improvethe quality of life for Native
communities and people? Let mereread that number three,
because I didn't get thatpromote a common understanding
(44:29):
of the rightful place of tribesin the family of American
governments.
Aaron Brien (44:40):
I think it's safe to say that I don't understand
what the Congress does. Yeah,
Salisha Old Bull (44:45):
they're like, it's like what you said they're
like, lobbyists are like, yeah,they're like the ones who sort
of swing around and say like,they try to like say, Well, this
is what RNA This is whatdifferent tribes want. This is
what we're buying. For an endo,like go visit the offices that
do see and try to get people tovote and they'll be the one to
(45:08):
sort of say, hey, you know,right, right in support of this,
blah, blah, blah. And
Shandin Pete (45:13):
yeah, apparently a unified voice of Indian country.
This is what it says on thewebsite since 1944. NCAA AI has
served as a unified voice forAmerican Indian and Alaska
Native issues. Yeah, so notreally like a law passing body.
But like a lobbying. It seemslike helping to guide policy.
Aaron Brien (45:35):
I don't want to be a part of the group. I don't
feel like I work. I work for atribal government. Yeah. I work
daily within cultural resourcelaw, which is Yeah. Really, like
it's this toolkit of law thattribes can use. I've never heard
once, ever, anything about theNational Congress of the
(45:59):
American Union? Yeah. Even whenI was at the National
Association of Tribal Historicpreservation officers, they
never said, This is what theCongress is doing in terms of
cultural resource law and how itcan help tribes never heard of
it. When I'm part of a tribalconsultation committee for our
region, which is in NorthDakota. You ever never seen it?
(46:20):
I don't. Yeah. I don't know whatthey do. Yeah, we should find a
member of
Shandin Pete (46:25):
it. We need to find a member because I think at
least I feel
Aaron Brien (46:29):
are whatever.
Salisha Old Bull (46:32):
Yeah, let's call the guy that you
Shandin Pete (46:36):
ask him. Well, if you listen to the Listen, what's
his name? Why are you why areyou so?
Aaron Brien (46:49):
into us, use micro X and I'll say yeah, Boo. Boo.
Are you mad?
Salisha Old Bull (46:58):
Calm down.
Aaron Brien (46:59):
Why not? Why not?
We need numbers, man.
Salisha Old Bull (47:02):
Ribbons. What about your one and a half hour?
prayer this morning? are welcomein prayer. Yeah. Yeah, in
vocational Yeah.
Shandin Pete (47:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Salisha Old Bull (47:22):
I thought this was gonna be in a good way. The
opposite, good way.
Shandin Pete (47:30):
Didn't start that Congress out in a good way. They
were taking our advice.
Aaron Brien (47:38):
He was like, they bought they go learn today.
Yeah.
Shandin Pete (47:43):
Well, you know what, there's something to be
said about that. Because youought to be able to speak your
mind. Like, I think it's okay.
If he said that what so? I don'tI don't not. That doesn't mean I
have to agree with him. I mean,people would you say people
should feel comfortable sayingthings that I say their mind but
not hateful mean. Dude, I
Aaron Brien (48:06):
say crazy stuff all the time. Yeah.
Shandin Pete (48:09):
But you have a somewhat of a filter. I said
somewhat.
Aaron Brien (48:18):
I mean, I wouldn't say anything like that like
that. Yeah,
Shandin Pete (48:22):
yeah. That's somewhat of a filter. You know,
you know, decency. You
Salisha Old Bull (48:26):
know where to draw the line decorum?
Shandin Pete (48:29):
I don't know. You do.
Aaron Brien (48:30):
We fought wars.
Well, you guys sat on thesidelines to start being Indian.
Salisha Old Bull (48:42):
First of all, like he's like, real young,
though. So what war did you
Aaron Brien (48:52):
see, I didn't see Apple.
Shandin Pete (48:57):
Turn at the Black Snake Genet where you
Aaron Brien (49:01):
were arrested. I didn't see you chaining yourself
to that bulldozer. I didn't seeyou running with the ancestors
at the knee. No, I just I knewwhat he was saying. Yeah, in a
way. Maybe he acknowledged likemaybe he was trying to say
(49:24):
something about too manyplayers. You know, because we've
all been in meetings where justtoo many people and muddies the
waters, you need to save somemoney. But I feel like he
started out like this. Hestarted out like, this is what
I'm going to say. And then hegot caught up in the heat of the
moment because he starts outwith this. I apologize to all
(49:44):
the state tribes in here. ButNCAI gave you the this false
sense of hope that it just goesdown. Yeah,
Shandin Pete (49:53):
wasn't the there's an apology always end with an
insult. Is that how it goes? I'msorry to say this to you the
insult, you know what he did? Hedid?
Aaron Brien (50:08):
With all due respect. So, yeah, I'd be
curious. I'd be curious to knowif he's going to have a response
to his own comments, you know,because yeah, I'm sure he's
gonna get lit up. Yeah. And theTwittersphere. One thing, one
(50:28):
thing about a lot of these guysthat I respect is like, they
don't care man, like, this guy'snot sure. He said what he wanted
to say. And, and, and in someways, maybe that's what the
Congress is for maybe that maybethose kinds of debates happen a
lot more. And someone justhappened to have their Twitter
on. But I just like who stillhas Twitter, though, for real?
(50:56):
Just, maybe, maybe that argumentneeds to happen, though. Yeah.
Shandin Pete (51:02):
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. All I
know, is it like you said, itcomes down to this really odd
thing. This club, this club,which we see also at an in, in a
microcosm of each, or manytribal nations are Confederate
Aaron Brien (51:26):
Mini with Joni mini Riccione.
Shandin Pete (51:30):
You see this, these clubs, and everybody knows
it. And it's just everybody'sfighting for scraps of the of
the federal pie. Meanwhile,inlet and these other people
that you're talking about, wejust we do our business. We do
our business. We do the thingsthat are listed on on this list
(51:51):
minus some of the some of thethings right, right, we don't
really need to demonstrate ouridentity to anybody, we just do
it, we're living it. And ourcommunities and our groups that
are cohesive, and in thatparticular way, they don't need
to be defined, they're definedin the things and the actions
that we do. We don't need tosend a governing document to
(52:12):
anybody to say this is how weexist as a, as a cultural
people. We don't need to provethat through documentation that
lines out how we govern, oranything like that we don't keep
a list of those who who areparticipants in in our cultural
pursuits. Yeah, that none ofthat exists, all this criteria
(52:34):
that put forth and that thatgets you into the club, is
really sort of the antithesis ofwhat a tribe is an ought to be,
I think, anyway. So I thinkthat's weird. When I when I read
this mission of the of thisCongress is, you know, to secure
traditional laws, cultures andway of life. It's, it seems
(52:56):
backwards, it seems like it'ssecuring the traditional laws
and cultures from 1936 forward,you know, the New Deal, you
know, the, the new theconstitution that all these
tribes get to have and get to bejust like, a small America, you
know, that. That's, that's whatit seems like to me. And I think
(53:20):
that's wrong.
Aaron Brien (53:22):
So you're right, I think, yeah,
Shandin Pete (53:24):
I think if you're if you're state recognized, man,
Aaron Brien (53:28):
don't worry about it.
Shandin Pete (53:30):
And, and some, some researchers and authors
have suggested that probably thebiggest motivation to get
federally recognized the so. Sothese tribes can build a casino.
I don't know if that's true ornot. I don't know. What the
(53:52):
motivation is.
Salisha Old Bull (53:53):
It seems like I don't know. I guess. It's just
hard to saw them political. Ijust noticed that there are
tribes that get real mad, theydo have that type of income.
And, yeah, and yeah, I think Ithink it's hard. It's hard to
(54:15):
understand because, becausewhere we come from, none of us
have had that none of us hadthat type of income coming in
and just like this huge influxof money, like none of us have
had that lower from right. Soyeah. It's the it feels like
that's, it's you know, it's hardto, it's hard to deny that
(54:40):
that's a factor. Right.
Shandin Pete (54:43):
Right. Yeah.
Casinos and weed. That's, thatseems like some of the driving
force behind tribalism today.
Aaron Brien (54:52):
All I know is they want to come into the champagne
room, let him in.
Shandin Pete (54:57):
The cork. The cork Man,
Aaron Brien (55:01):
because because they're not given to the dance,
they're going to realize all weshould have hung out outside.
Remember back in the day, whenyou when you used to party, and
you'd be in someone's garage, oryou'd be on someone's porch, and
you'd be having a good timeparty, and then somebody says,
let's go check out the bar, thenyou go to the bar, and then
you're like, go home. Yeah. Tome, that's what it is. It's
(55:31):
like, hey, guys want to come inand join us fed guys. But then
at the same time, we're like, Idon't know. Should we let them
in? It's like, I think they'recool. It's like, all right. I
mean, I don't know what you'regonna bring anything with them
already. We gotta like. Do justlet them in. Because guess what,
it's wack in here.
Shandin Pete (55:51):
Drink up all our stuff. Yeah,
Aaron Brien (55:57):
I do. And you know who I'm talking about?
Shandin Pete (56:01):
The same person all the time. The mooch leaves
with about six or seven cans inhis Levi jacket. Oh,
Aaron Brien (56:13):
he's giving them a ride.
Shandin Pete (56:17):
Because he got ditched because nobody wanted
him.
Aaron Brien (56:21):
Dude, I think we're thinking of the same person. it
well. No, no, I think one persongave.
Shandin Pete (56:31):
Oh, many people.
Yeah.
Aaron Brien (56:35):
See me Joey Johnny.
Shandin Pete (56:38):
Yeah, that's what it comes down to? I don't know
the answer. Well, I do know theanswer. I don't know. I guess
this is what I don't know is Idon't know, the feeling that the
state recognized tribes havetheir
Aaron Brien (56:55):
reality I gave you that. I wonder if someone was to
do? Yeah, sorry. No, go ahead. Iwonder if someone was to like
scope state tribes and say, whatis it you're actually looking
for? Yeah. Like, what do youthink? What do you is it an
identity thing? Right, you'relike, you need to be part of the
(57:15):
club? Or is this Is it as simpleas annuity and subsidies and tax
breaks? And yeah, and in thatcase, just turn your tribe into
a nonprofit? And then havememberships start a cult? You
know, I mean, because I don'tknow what it is. Yeah, I don't
quite know. I don't know. Yeah.
But then as we're also sittinghere from the side of that,
(57:38):
like, right, we enrolled, I'm anenrolled member of the Crow
tribe, like, yeah. So I don'tknow, I don't know what it's
like to be part of a staterecognized tribe or anything
like that. So
Shandin Pete (57:54):
I can imagine it the draw to have, you know,
dollars to, you know, buildhousing for your people or, you
know, to reacquire yourtraditional lands. To develop
again, we're
Aaron Brien (58:10):
jumping ahead. I know, I know. It's really just
about this club. This club. It's
Shandin Pete (58:16):
not a Yeah, it's not even about recognition. It's
about the club. It's a bookclub, that these they won rights
to vote in this club. What arethey voting for? Voting for what
I voted on,
Aaron Brien (58:29):
whether they're gonna have it at the Hard Rock
next year, or Changa. Dude, Idon't know.
Shandin Pete (58:36):
Why are we so out of the loop on this? These guys
are representing us. Right? Whydon't know, that's because
Aaron Brien (58:42):
they're not representing us.
Salisha Old Bull (58:43):
We're talking about Thanksgiving.
Shandin Pete (58:47):
representing this?
Well, you know, we've been onthis for a while. I think we
beat it. Yeah. We know, we knowthat. We got all the answers.
Just follow what we said. Andeverything will be cool. No, I
don't think so. No, but there'sa lot of unknowns. There's a lot
of perspectives, and this justhappened. And this just
happened. So it's fairly new.
Salisha Old Bull (59:09):
It's just happened. What did
Aaron Brien (59:15):
just happen? Let's see what happens in the next few
days. And then yeah,
Shandin Pete (59:20):
see if we get canceled.
Aaron Brien (59:23):
No, we don't say anything too controversial. I
sound like a political group.
Shandin Pete (59:30):
Pretty clear.
Yeah.
Salisha Old Bull (59:31):
It's pretty clear. What matters, dad. Okay,
well, let's read your dad.
Aaron Brien (59:40):
You're mad at your dad. Alright, let's do it.
Everybody
Shandin Pete (01:00:00):
Okay
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