#52 - Authenticity Under Surveillance: A Native’s Guide to Being Yourself…Everywhere! - Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Shandin Pete (00:00):
Ask them what the heck you want say we're busy
with ice casting.

Aaron Brien (00:03):
Just sending me memes.

Oh yeah, come on 10 are really in to some drama.
Oh, come on. We you know you ownall of North America

that was one of them the other day writes it
showed the state of Montana andsaid everything and blue are
some territory. I really bestedhim and I was like settle down
do you live in Missoula bro?
Don't matter what you had. Whatdo you yeah what do you have

(00:42):
you on Higgins bro so

you're living next to bear tracks bridge

you're putting the fence
all right. All right. Let's dothis man. Let's do it. Let's do

(01:15):
it. Man. Can you hear me? Am Igood? You're good. Good

sound sounds good.
Sounds real good. Yeah. Well,let's um you know I got a better
solution got me a reel to reelplayer slash recorder. For my
for my birthday photo forChristmas. My birthday hasn't
happened. And I've been slowlygoing through these reel to

(01:41):
reels. And there's some goodmusic on here man, man, but it's
some of it's kind of notrecorded well because the tapes
are old enough. I'm gonna showyou one of these and I've been
doing the ones that areunlabeled.

Yeah, first trying to get a photo here for your
photo

I've been doing the ones that are unlabeled. And
I'm going to show you an exampleof one of these now lucky enough
that there's a narrator on heresort of easy a clue where it's
taken it will let you listen tothis and with your advanced

(02:25):
knowledge of Native Americanmusic I'm going to see if you
can figure out the origin ofthis clip here we go you hear
that? You probably can't hear itcuz I didn't share the sound in
yeah doing that stupid let's doit again. I really built it up

(02:51):
and I just dropped it right heregrab the ball you ready? Here we
go. Yeah, there it isoh this is raw like that be I

(03:19):
know miraclesgets you right there good learns

(03:44):
oh man here we gothat a little slow down

(05:29):
Yeah, well,

okay, so it's either from crow flathead or
Naspers.

Yeah. Am I right?
Well, well, well by defaultbecause you know where these
these came from came from Mr.
Larry Parker, who was Salish NezPerce and traveled extensively
in the Blackfeet territory andamong the crows.

Well that I didn't know that.

Oh, you know that okay. Okay, we didn't know that.
Here though. He had a tape. Ihad a tape, one time of him
recording songs and really sadbecause I lost it. But he sings
the songs, and he names all ofthem. And I remember when he
said this is the this is aDonald deer Nose Special. And he
sings it then he named Yeah, andhe names all these things and he

(06:22):
just keep singing for like thewhole these whole this 90 minute
tape front and back. That's goldman. That is and I lost it. I
lost it. So disappointed butanyway. Yeah, you're right. So
within that that region

I the sound to me.
Yeah. So the sound there's asound that comes from like, the
flour, Indians, flour Indians.
Was that, like, beadwork andstuff?

Oh, okay. Not like waiting for flour. No, like,

like, like, around in our area. See, to me the
Blackfeet have a very distinctsound. Yeah, they do. They're,
they're actually I'm gonna behonest. I'm a big fan of it.
Yeah, I am. I've always likedthat sound. Yeah, you listen to
like the Lakota people and kindof over there. It's distinct,

(07:23):
but it's never been like mythink like, I've come. I've been
Yeah, but we know like FortBerthold. There's a sound there.
Yeah, it's probably what a lotof singers have emulated is from
there. Yeah. But I would saythat sound that the flatheads
kind of did. I hear it in someof that Nez Perce stuff Shoshone

(07:47):
kind of a little bit but likethose seem to have adopted a
little bit of that. Yeah, andit's it's the it's the song
making structures different.
Yes. It's melodically pleasing.
Where the Blackfeet it's it'stheir beat. I've always loved
that beat they kind of do upthere like Blackfoot crossing.

(08:07):
Six Ramblers and then guys,yeah, but their songs style was,
yeah, it was good. But it waslike a sharper sound, you know,
like, sharp, like,

it reminded me what I'm saying. I do. It
reminds me of like, like, likepouring out a really thick
liquid, you know, like pouringout a thick liquid kind of fast.
It's kind of got that littlewave to it. You know? That's
what that music kind of soundslike, you know, it's Oh, that's

a good. That's a good analogy. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Whereas if you
go east, you know, like yousaid, overnight, sort of
decoders, it, I mean, it allsounds good. You know, let's
just put the different style.
But that one sounds more likeit's pushing the beat. When you
get over into the East, youknow, it's almost sounds like
it's almost on the beat. Notquite, but it's just it's like
pushing it to be

pushed not be. And that to me, that's very like
their song. To me, it feels likethe song and the piano are two
different things. And they justhappen to meet. Yeah, we're
like, yeah, Blackfeet is not thebeat, the beaten in the melody,
or even. Yeah, the way the songscomposed is it's like, it's

(09:24):
exactly how you would think itwould be I do. A lot of people
probably won't like that, that Isaid that but I liked that
Blackfoot style of singing. Ithink it's cool, man. Yeah,
Agreed.

Agreed. Yeah, so that was that some that's up in
the blood country there. Thatwas apparently on the end of the
reel. It narrates who's who's init in it. The person narrating
it. His name is Charlie bullshield. And his wife I guess was
name was Irene prairie chickenand they mentioned No singers

(10:01):
from Moses Lake all agency andbig corner those those areas up
there

and they name a big corner.

Yeah name off some folks that are in there. Willie
Eagle plume Frank black rabbit.
I don't know any of these names.
Tony wolf child Alan Wolf Chow,Jimmy, Chief calf and I think he
says somebody by the name ofMars shouting maybe I couldn't
hear it too well. But yeah, putin blood blood country. They're

(10:33):
pretty cool. Now I'm gonna I'mgonna show you a different one.
And this one is very distinctand you can probably pick it out
right away whether where thiscomes from. You're ready for it.
But

I don't know. I'm not I'm not I don't have I don't
have it like I used to. So yeah,this

one's pretty, pretty distinct. And I bet you
be able to pick it right outbecause you'll hear the
difference between like pouringout a real creamy substance, you
know, that kind of oh, I justlike a wave. You know, just the
wave that keeps coming. That'sit. That last one sound like now
listen to this one. Ready? Yep,I know. You're ready. Here we

(11:08):
go.

I'm listening. Yep,

okay

that's from your country. You can just tell
anything. Yeah, you can tell butsee that beat way that beat?
Yeah, that's similar to what Iwas talking about pro like Yeah.
It's he watched listen to thesong. It'll feel like someone
took two bodies and put themtogether play it watch

(12:25):
Yeah, that seems like anunnatural drop to me.
But I liked the song. Yeah.

Good song. Yeah, you could tell the difference.

That I would say is different about crow style of
singing versus over there. Yeah,it's like your guys's beat. It
was always a little more choppy.
It seemed like a little more.
You know, not a bounce. Likethere's not like a bounce. Yeah.
Yeah. And I always wondered howmuch stick game influenced the
way people sing.

Yeah, I wonder I wonder that too. And I wonder
how I wonder if the will Okay,so. So if I listened to some of
the old old word dances likethat was sort of recorded early
earlier than sort of the 50s and60s, you know, where there was,
there wasn't that sort of worddance from the well, I don't

(13:26):
know what it I guess the morepopular and emerging power style
of singing you know, where it'swhere to style from the North
was influencing and the stylefrom the east was influencing
where it was just when theywould sing war dances to
actually get ready for war. Youcan hear that sort of bounce in
there. It's a lot different. Itevolved into something else that

(13:48):
you hear that you heard theretoday. And I didn't know I don't
know why it did that. And I betwhat you said it's probably
influenced by some of the othersinging traditions, you know.
And

because to me, stick game. I don't think so.
Game songs. But yeah, when Imeet guys who are active in
both, there's a there's a dip,there's like a lack of the
bounce. Now you look at like,people who sing hand game songs

(14:21):
those double beat hand gamesongs. Oh, yeah. melodically
they're like structureddifferent. They're like real
pretty they're like designed tobe like this kind of upbeat
where I think Sikkim accompaniesa game where hand game songs are
almost like the centerpiece.
They're like yeah, people whoplay hand games and you have
people who sing hang game yeah,we're like stick game is kind of

(14:42):
this blended. It's it's toaccompany something. Look at
like John John and dry lake.
He's a pretty good hand gamesinger. Oh, yeah. And in there
be is like, tight. It's realtight. So I wonder. I wonder. I
mean, how Would you even likestudy that? You know? Yeah.

I don't know, man.
I don't know, these. I know,you've probably seen some of
those ethnomusicologists reportsand those kinds of things. Yeah.
Yeah, they talk real deep andheavy in sort of like the music
genre. You know, this is a niceseventh Pentameter of the fifth.
Yeah. And, you know, anyoneunderstand,

but also they don't understand music, our music
because our music doesn't fitinto that. Yeah, that model of
singing structure. Yeah, it'sdifferent. Yeah.

They're analyzing it from their their own music
tradition, which doesn't quite

it doesn't quite meet no one. I mean, there's
some pretty good efforts. And,and they can describe it. They
can describe it pretty good

to another person of them, you know?

Yeah. But it's so disconnected. It's like sterile.

And let me get my piano out. And I'll see what the
sounds yeah, that's

that was very flathead, very Salish. Sorry, I
shouldn't say flathead, my bed.

Oh, yeah. You're You're a fan. You're being
offensive. Yeah. That's prettycool, man. So what you want to
talk about now? It's good onyour mind.

Whatever man I've been up to we haven't recorded
in a while.

It's been

my job. I haven't traveled a whole lot. Went to
Phoenix last week. For BIA, Igave a training, National
Training Center for the BLM lineofficers training schools, what
it's called.

Yeah. Would you tell them? Oh, man, how are you
training them on?

So it's supposed to be like on on consultation? Oh,
okay. So this law that I'm veryactive in now, section 106, of
the National HistoricPreservation Act. But there's
all this other stuff that comesalong with it, like this tribal
engagement component that thefeds are required to have now,
right? So it's part of this codestewardship mandate, government

(17:18):
to government relationships,it's all this right? So yeah,
what people are doing is they'reblending the two together, which
sometimes that's good blending,in which two together, the
section 106 component of theNational Preservation Act, and
then this this other monster,which is government to
government, tribal engagement,coasters. Oh, okay. Almost like

(17:42):
the humanitarian part of thesocial justice part of the thing
where this, this is a federallaw that requires them to, to
take into account the adverseeffects to potential adverse
effects to cultural resources,not designated as a tribal
thing. It just, it's just totake into account it can be

(18:02):
historic buildings, whatever.
Yeah. By default, it seems tohave become a tribal, like, it's
really used by tribes a lot tofight companies or whatever. So
anyway, I go down there to givethis talk. Yeah. And it was, it
was good. My talk was really on,like, what is consultation? How
do you do it? How does itfunction? Where does it not

(18:22):
function? And how can the BLMget better at it? Well, I didn't
realize like how little theseguys these line officers, which
are like, field supervisors andstuff they didn't know. So
afterwards, I get on a panel. SoI'm sitting on this panel and
the panel, after I had done myhour long talk, I gave a little

(18:46):
talk at the beginning eight inthe morning on prayer, kind of
my idea of what prayer isbecause I'm kind of, I'm
against. I'm against prayerbefore meetings. Yeah.

You made that clear? Yeah.

I'm not against prayer. That's that, that for
some reason, people think thatmeans because I've even had
people say like, oh, Aarondoesn't believe in prayer.
You're ridiculous. You know,you're ridiculous. It's more
about timing and like,situation, what's appropriate.
So yeah, I give this talk aboutwhat I've seen, and CRO

(19:29):
ceremony, and really what I'vejust seen in my life, like what,
what to me seems tribal and whatseems to be more appropriate?
Yeah. So I give this 1520 minuteor whatever. 10 minute talk at
the beginning. Come back, dothis one hour talk with some
q&a. And then I'm on a panel.
Now I'm on a panel with someBLM. It's all BLM people. I'm
the only tribal government repthere's tribal people there but

(19:53):
they work for the government.
Yeah, yeah.
As, as they're talking peopleare asking questions and
different members of the panelare feel fielding these
questions. Yeah, I kind of getlike annoyed.

These are all non native books.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lady, but she's very
much and no disrespect to her.
But she's very much BLM, youknow? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of
patting on the back, like, hey,you know, we can do this. We're
doing it. This is what we'redoing blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
And so I'm kind of gettingannoyed. Good. I finally there's
a little button on on the mic.

(20:41):
So I pressed the button. And I'mrude at this point. I didn't
wait for the person to quittalking. I just pressed it. And
I said, Yeah, I said, I want tosay something. Yeah. And I
admit, I was a bit rude. I admitthat. But I also felt a sense of
like, a they asked me to behere. Yeah, yeah. And so I just

(21:05):
freaking I went off, man. I ruinthe moment. I like went. And I
basically, like trashedeverything everybody was saying.
And I said, You know what? Thisis like, ridiculous. Really,
when you think about it, I said,this gentleman I pointed at this

(21:26):
guy said asked us asked about aletter sending section 106
letters to tribes. He's askinghow to do that. Yeah. I just
spent an hour talking about afairly good detailed explanation
of tribal consultation. Thisfield manager doesn't know how
to send a letter. Yeah. And Isaid, You guys aren't. You're

(21:50):
not even there yet. I wasted youknow, I wasted my time pretty
much is what I said. Yeah. SoI'm talking like, all this ideal
stuff. But the reality is, youguys don't even know how to send
letters. And you're asking mehow you guys should send
letters. Have you ever justcalled you the tribes you work
with? And say, how do you wantthese PDFs paper? Do you want us
to call you do you want to carryyour pigeon to bring them to

(22:12):
you? And so then I just kind ofgot frustrated. I said, there's
a lot of patting yourselves onthe back. There's a whole lot of
like, Look what we did. But youguys aren't doing it. Yeah,
nothing's happening. It's justdo I do a DOI stuff? Yeah. And
then this guy said, Irespectfully disagree with you.

(22:35):
And then he he says, Our tribesin Northern California says that
our tribes, so then he, he talksabout how they're like, their
successes in consultation,right. Yeah. I'm thinking like I
said, Okay, well, with theexception of Northern California
who's doing it right. Everybodyelse is doing it wrong. I said,

(22:58):
I work with six different fieldoffices in three different
states, and that none of themare doing it right. But Northern
California is doing it right.
And I said, or they, the tribesyou're working with don't know
the potential. They don't knowwhat they can get and how they
can be successful. So in theirmind, they're getting a lot from
you. Yeah. So their inner yourinteraction with them is

(23:22):
pleasant, because they don'tknow. They don't know what they
can get. Yeah. And I see you'refeeding them spat. I said this
in front of everybody. I said,and I liked this line. This is
okay. I'm gonna give myself Isaid you're feeding them spam
while you're eating ribeyesRick, you get hurt.

(23:48):
And then he just kind of likefaded into the back and you can
tell people were like, What thehell Jim? Shut up.

Spam really? The

lady next to me, the Idaho State Director goes. I
agree with everything Aaron'ssaying because she was the only
one that wasn't doing like theself aggrandizing Oh, yeah. And
there was some by the 14th Beeand stuff happening. Yeah,
there. There's all I basicallygot contradicted about my prayer
stuff by this lady, anotheranother BLM or a BLM or native

(24:21):
person? You just like sitAaron's basically wrong? Yeah.
But she's guests. I want you toguess how old this individual
is?

Probably. Maybe in their 60s. Yeah. 60. Yeah. And

for me, that's hard to convey that to people to say,
Yeah, I know exactly what thatgeneration is going to tell me.
I know exactly their response ina good way. This is how this is
how we start all of ourmeetings. bullshit, man.
Bullshit.

(24:58):
Don't you don't And then then Isaid, I said, if you guys really
did care about your success andtribal consultation and
engagement, why am I the onlyone here? Yeah. Why am I the
only person? The only tribalperson? What's going on here?

(25:19):
Yeah. And I said, kudos to allthe tribal people who work for
the BLM. But I'm sorry, you'reon the BLM. Yeah. You're not you
don't represent a tribe. Peoplein the trenches. Man, I, that's
where I'll toot my own horn. Andthis sounds like we're just
we're getting real arrogant. SoI better stop. But I didn't I

(25:40):
never realized when you work fora tribal government, especially
in Montana, you're on the frontlines, man. Yeah,

you're digging the trench? Dude, you're doing it.
You're digging a trench, you'reshooting the shots. So I

was just sitting there. And I sent all of this
and then it sparked quite adiscussion. So I just turned
around to the buffalo FieldOffice archaeologists Who's the
one who got me there, ya know,just my bad. You know what she's
like, No, she was into it. Youknow? Yeah. She she's a firm
believer that things have to getawkward. They do. They do have

(26:17):
to get awkward has to.

Yeah. I'm a firm believer in that, too. You know,
you know, why do we travel 1000sof miles and spin all these
resources to just pat each otheron the back? You know,

I yeah, I'm like you didn't bring me down here?
Yeah, that's exactly mythinking. Like, yeah. Did you
bring me down here to praiseyou? Yeah. You got the wrong,
man. While I was giving my talk,I was like, I say Indian. I
don't think there's anythingwrong with it. Of course,
there's a native lady right inthe front row. And I said, Does

(26:54):
anybody else have a problem withIndia? The one native person
raises their hand. I said, Allright. Well, that's a different
talk, you know. And I said, Man,my style is different. I just
told him I said, I'm more aboutsuccess. I don't, I'm not the

(27:14):
bridge to divide guy. Yeah. Idon't care if you don't like me.
Yeah, you can go home, you cantalk about me, you can say all
the names about my people,whatever. Yeah, we have to get
over this like idea like a sainta playground where we all got to
get along and play Red Rover.
What we have to learn to do isbe successful together, what you
believe is your business. Right.

(27:39):
And there's certain things thatthat I think are not old to us,
but we're entitled to, becauseof the lack of respect to Native
people for it for forever.
There's a certain level that'safforded to us. Yeah. You know,
in 500 years, when we're allcaught up on equality, then
yeah, after that, maybe you cansay, hey, we don't need to give

(28:00):
this native people this level ofrespect. I don't know. I won't
be here. But I'm just saying forright now. Yeah, we're owed a
little bit. I'll say it, youknow, okay. Yeah.

Let me say it man.

The reason the reason murder is a felony or
it's a crime, it's becausesomebody did it. Right. Yeah.
The reason consultation is is isa is a law that nag press the
law religious freedoms, the lawsbecause we're those things
weren't allowed. Yeah, you know,it's if people cared about us,

(28:36):
we wouldn't have to have theselaws so so I'm over the like,
accept me for who I am kind ofthing because the structure of
it isn't designed for thatanyway. The structures born out
of criminality

Your Honor repairman, you've been hold on
this in about 90 days. It's

been a while since I've like, hey, actually, you're
right. You're right. So Inoticed the last time I kind of
had like a meltdown on thepodcast was I was in Bismarck
was and I, you were and it was awhile before we had did a
podcast. Then when we werestringing some pods together.
Yeah, they got friendlier andfunnier. It did. Yeah. So

(29:22):
anyway, I apologize for that.
bottling it up, man. I didn'tmean to. Well,

I don't know. I got to thinking about about a
few things. You know, but kindof our whining around about
things and I don't know, Ithought, well, you know, we
should be about solutions. But Ithink I think you sort of said
it is we can't come up with thesolution until we all wind

(29:50):
around a bit and argue about youknow, where our where our views
are without without having toyou know, placate each other on,
on those kinds of things. Wejust got, we just gotta get it
out. You got to get like what?
Like, you know, like when whenyou're in your relationship, you
get that good argue, oh, youknow you're on the edge, you're

(30:11):
just you're like I'm leaving.
You're still looking around foryour bag and I'm gonna go I'm
just gonna go I don't need this,you know, but you stay you stay
you stick it out.

But good argue I like that Oh

yeah, it's it's in those moments that you know the
man the man brain like it hasthis little like this little
growth you know, like a littlelittle, those little synapses
sort of connecting you're like,Oh yeah, I finally get what she
was saying. I I'm wrong, and I'mwrong and it's okay to admit

(30:49):
that it's okay to admit that I'mnot going to be any less of a
man. But I admit that in it awhile to get there though. Oh,
man, it does. It takes it takesyears of living together and
arguing. Yeah, I get it. But

once it's it's nice, though, to have to get to
a point in your mentality whereyou're okay with being
uncomfortable a little bit. Andyou're okay with being wrong.
But you're also okay withresigning, like, here's so you
want to win all the time whenyou're younger? And I admit I

(31:28):
kind of I still have some ofthat. Yeah. Realize people don't
realize how many times I've justsaid, Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know. Yeah. And are I'mwrong. Yeah. I doesn't mean, I
like it. See, I think that'swhere people go wrong. Like I've
definitely admitted, especiallyin the last couple of years have
I've learned to admit when I'mwrong. Yeah, man, but it doesn't

(31:51):
mean I like it.

Nobody wants to get used to being wrong. And no,

I bet. I bet 80% of my knowledge comes from
insecurity.

Yeah, yeah, I can.
I can relate to that. But let'slet me step back a little bit.
You're still you're talkingabout? I don't know, we talked
about these things race. I don'tknow if

that's just, you asked me.

No, you said some important things. And there's
one thing that I that, that I'vebeen thinking about, somewhat.
And that's sort of how, howNative people ought to act. And
see, this is I don't know ifthis is right, how Native people
ought to act among their ownpeople, versus how they ought to

(32:56):
act when they're not aroundtheir own people.

It's exactly what I was. Yeah. And

so so this, this ties into the things that we see
these phenomenons that we have anowadays which is I don't know
sort of disagree with it, butkind of see the point but the
idea of the positionalitystatement in the self location
in the prayer before a meetingin all these seems to be tangled

(33:23):
up in that idea of what's what'sthe authentic Native in these
two different sort of context.
Like if you're hanging out withthat with all your with all year
I don't know that your tribesmenyou know, your tribe, hanging
out with the tribe, you know, atany any any function on the rez,

(33:43):
whether it's ceremonial, whetherit's social, whether it's
customary. Who knows, you actthe same, you act a certain way.
Because everybody is familiarwith what ought to happen in
whatever situation that is.
That's just a given, you know.
But then when you're outside ofthat context, we're sort of

(34:06):
training ourselves to be aparticular way that doesn't feel
authentic, feels performative.
And it feels misplaced. But Ithink some some of the younger
generation and some of the oldergeneration, it feels like and

(34:29):
that's become normalized to thepoint where it's, it's like a
hard one to count their act withsome sort of authentic evidence
to say that, no, this is notreally the way we act. But then
some people would say, well, wehave to be a certain way,
because we can't bring that wecan't bring that authentic self

(34:52):
into these environments becauseit doesn't fit and doesn't
match. I don't know if I'mmaking any sense

I mean, yeah, you told me to me why? Because
that's exactly kind of what Iwas talking about. Yeah. With my
talk about prayer. Yeah, that'sthe thing I'm combating. But
what comes out is people say, hedoesn't believe in prayer. But
what I'm what I'm fighting, orwhat I'm against is that
performative nature in us, whichI think comes from a John

(35:23):
Collier's lifting of the danceband. So he, when we when song
and dance and religion wasoutlawed, he lifted it for the
sake of tourism. Right, ortourism in this in, in
celebration of our country ofour country. Right. So, so
that's why there's, like1,000,000/4 of July, Apollo's,

(35:45):
you know, there's like a millionpolicies near train stations,
you know, especially theseolder, older power laws, you
know, yeah. And so, it became,it's in our nature now, it's
become a part of who we are togive form as a sign of identity.
Yeah, because that's what theleader that's legally it was

(36:09):
mandated, you know, or Yeah.
regulated. So I, unfortunately,you have two things colliding,
you had the influences of thechurch. Now, I'm not saying the
boarding school era. Okay. Preboarding school, no post,

well, most boarding school, so

you got to Carlisle Bay cone Haskell era, like the
real aggressive stuff right now.
Yeah. Now, I'm not sayingboarding school wasn't
aggressive and regions, but forthe most part, yeah. Why the 40s
and 50s. It was dwindling downto the point where these these
native students were wanting togo to boarding school. Right.
You know, but yeah, of course,there's still hardship. There's

(36:49):
still things happening. So I'mnot discrediting that, but so
you have this combination of nowpeople had bought in, yeah, to
that education thing and boughtin to the church. So that same
boarding school era, those oldschool cats, they're, it's their
kids and grandkids, right?

(37:10):
They're like believers. Yeah,they're believers, then, so
you've now replaced, for themost part, the daily religious
expression of your people,doesn't mean ceremonies, not
their ceremonies still there.
But the daily, the daily had nowbecome replaced by the church.
But now you introduce all theseconcepts that are really

(37:33):
Christian? Right? Like, can youimagine there wasn't dinner
time? 200 years ago? So whenpeople say we've always prayed
for food before the beforedinner, we've always someone
prayed the guy. Can we askGrandma, Grandma, can you play
for the food? We want to eat?

(37:54):
Like, that's it? I'm not againstthat. What I'm against is people
saying it's somehow atraditional Yeah, mission. No,
yeah. It only exists because ofdinnertime. Yeah. Yeah. So prior
to that, we're a grazing people.
Now, if somebody came to yourhome, they might feed that
person. That doesn't mean it'sdinnertime. Because it's not

(38:15):
there. So. And in fact, theywould actually make a prayer
opposite. So that person wasoffered food. Then he said, Oh,
good. I'll ask for somethinggood for you. You know, you just
gave me food. So I'm gonna askfor something nice for you.
Yeah. You know, so it's, it wasso casual. That's what people
don't get is it was so casual.

(38:37):
But then all of that getsaffected by the church. John
Collier lifts the dance ban saysyou can do it as long as it's
for some level of economics foryour tribe, and through tourism.
So now, all of that stuff getspushed all together, mismatched.
And then now you got thisperformative nature of tribal

(38:58):
people. starting way back in the20s, you know,

yeah, no, I could see that.

That's obviously a very generalized. Oh, yeah. You
have what what was going on? SoI don't want people to be acting
like Aaron's wrong, it wasactually 1934. Yeah, I know. I
know. I'm wrong.

The overarching understanding is what you said
not the specifics. Well, okay.
So pretend pretend we're givingadvice what we've done this
already. I think we've done thisalready. And I'm thinking about
the young in, you know, highlymalleable indigenous scholar who

(39:50):
maybe, you know, didn't didn'tget a chance to grow up honor,
honor. rezz didn't get a chanceto, you know, to witness or
partake in, in the ceremonialism that that enforces certain
norms that you ought to do andwhat you ought not to do. What

(40:12):
what what advice do you give tothat? That individual who's
looking for something that feelsauthentic, but is bombarded
continually with things, atleast from our thought that
feels somewhat off?

(41:38):
What advice Yeah. What do youtell them? Biggest

thing is to be patient, be patient because one
thing I see with young learnersof their culture, which
typically is driven byacademics, which is fun, amen.
You can see that a lot younotice, like, they go to school,
they can influence and that'scool. Like, I'm not dogging that
everybody's had that in somelevel. So like when they're

(42:01):
wanting to learn about theirpeople. Maybe it's springboarded
by academics.

Yeah. Which is good. Yeah.

They want to make up for lost time. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, that's pretty descriptive. There's a
rush. There's a rush or rush.

And then what I see nine times out of 10 is that
person burns out on it. And thehat is dwindle off. Yeah. So
like, culturally, they theyoverdo it, but also because of
the lack of involvement fromyoung people, our communities
over to use them to, they'relike, Oh, look at this young
person showing interest. Let'sfriggin bombard them with stuff.

(42:44):
Yeah, yeah. Then that persongets overwhelmed. Yeah. And so
like, for example, like, as ayoung man, I wasn't raised in a
ultra traditional home. But whenwe would go to like sweat, my
dad would say, help build thefire. So he, man and you would
do that. And it's not formal.
See, that's the thing. Peoplethink this is formal. It's not,

(43:06):
it's just something you lookback on and say, Oh, I guess
what I did was like, I just kindof helped clean up around the
sweat. And just by being there,you're learning you learn a lot
of stuff. Yeah. And then youmight help build the fire, you
might help, then you'll bringthe rocks and or you might get
the blankets and stuff ready, orthe water ready and whatever.

(43:28):
Yeah, you might be this the guyrunning the deals, little helper
or whatever. And for everytribe, it's a little different.
It's a little stricter, in formor whatever. But by the time
it's time for you to like, likein your guys's case, run rounds,
or like have songs or, for us,it's like having the right to
poor by then you had all thisinformal training, right? Yeah.

(43:51):
And what I noticed now is youngguys aren't growing up that way.
So when they learn about thesweat, they're like, pushed into
everything at once. So you gotguys now that are pouring in the
sweat, and they've never reallyeven had to build the fire, you
know, so they're kind ofspoiled. They have the authority
of sitting in that position.

(44:14):
Yeah, they didn't have to, like,for lack of a better term pay
dues. So what I see in academicsis kind of the same thing, our
young learners is that they'relearning too much too fast. And
everybody's pace is different.
So some people can take on, likea lot at once Some people can,
it's like, man just learnedthis, learn this and use this as
your cornerstone and kind ofbuild off of that. Yeah. And

(44:37):
then, and to me, that's sort oflike, if you really want to
learn your culture, you learnsinging. Oh, yeah, there's no
faster way to learn yourculture. Yes, songs. I mean,
obviously, language language islike, but really like even
people who speak their language,go to people who know songs,
there's a position Not enoughunofficial position that people

(45:00):
who sing and no songs havethat's even, in some ways higher
than people who speak theirlanguage, you know? Yeah. It's
it worked for me. And I see itwith people when they learn to
sing. And they learn songs andsong structure. They always sit
in a position in the best seatsin the house. You know, so

(45:21):
they're always there, whetherit's a Sundance or whatever,
they stay there, they're there.
They're like, we need them. Andthere's such a lack of singers.
Yeah. That they're, they'reneeded. But they I noticed the
pacing is different when youlearn how to sing. They keep you
in the singers position for awhile, because they it's the

(45:42):
necessity. It

doesn't need somebody to carry the drum.
While

we say, oh, Sean D get over here and help us with
the fire or help us do this orhelp us do that. And then
they're like, oh, shit, we gotto Sean Dean's got to go back
and sing. So because of that,your the patience and the pacing
is different. Yeah, that's whatI noticed. Yeah. Well, what do I
know?

The classic, the classic Indian man and response.
If you dropped a bunch of wisdomand knowledge. Yeah, but what do
I know? But what do I know?

Yeah, what do I know? For Indian boy? And

know nothing?
Nobody cares. Nobody cares whatI have to say anyway, though.
That's what I have to say. Yeah,okay. So I got no, sorry. I'm
done. Nevermind. Sorry. I'm

done. Probably just go home.

Man. Yeah, you're on a rant man up. I just give
you one little, little cue andyou go off. Way to go. Man.

It's bottled up against you. I miss you.

This one, I just want to what

does he say? What is he said? Yeah, this is all
over. We should get an apartmenttogether.

Just get an apartment together. Start a
band. I missed you.

I missed your musk.

Yeah. Okay. So this is a question. Somewhat
related? Because we've talkedabout this a little bit, but not
I don't know if we did. Wetalked about it indirectly. But
I was asked this question by aformer guest on the podcast. I

(47:43):
think she's kind of a guest, butwe kind of were in it all
together at the beginning.
Selena. Selena Hill. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Much

respect for Salinas? Certainly not Seelos.
Dino.

Your Selena Zelos.
Dean, yours? Yeah. So she askedme this very simple question.
And I pondered it for writtenthroughout my response. But I'm
curious what your thought is.
Now, this is sort of an academicrealm, but you probably know a
little bit about it. And we'llsee what you have to say. What's

(48:17):
the difference? Because you seethis a lot. And the young
scholar and young Indigenousperson, whatever, whatever, you
know, they should know somethingabout this. What's the
difference between positionalityand self location? Go?

South location seems to be a little more
pliable. Like it's, it's kind ofa self awareness in where to
push positionality is permanent.
To me, it seems like it has. Ithas some concreteness to it.
Like it's there. It's rightthere. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Very simple, right. I mean, I give both our

jokes but whatever.

Well, they're pretty, pretty funny to back on.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna give avery similar response about it.
Right. So I said, Yeah,positionality is sort of who you
are. Like you said, somethingyou can't change. Right? Yeah.

So I would say, Yeah, I don't know much about
it. But yeah,

yeah, it's who you are. You just you sort of
identify that. Yeah. And I don'tknow, I don't know why you I
don't know why that's a thing.
But you know, where I'm, what'sbecome a thing but you know,
where I do appreciate it atwhere I've started to appreciate
it more because it lessens sortof my cognitive load is when I
have to read a journal articlethat's about Native things. And

(49:41):
so I wonder, well, what's thewhat where's the author coming
from on this? What's theirexperience? What was their lived
experience with indigenousthings? And if they stayed it
right up front, you know, I'm, Ididn't grow up on my reserve or,
you know, I was adopted, youknow, those kinds of things.
then it sort of helps me tounderstand what they're sort of
telling me about what they knowwhere they learned excetera.

(50:05):
That's pretty valuable. Youknow, it's pretty valuable. You
don't want to have to lookpeople up and find out their
background just just tounderstand the stance in which
they're writing from

then background it in, unlike a lot of disciplines,
indigenous research backgroundis important, man. Oh, yeah.
Really a lot of things I'm notqualified to talk about.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just, it's exactly,
exactly.

It's not for me, it's not me. Yeah.

And so you can kind of tell from from that sort
of positionality statement. Butyou know, what I think you can
also tell without thatstatement, when you're reading
some, that's from a person who'sdeeply steeped in the traditions
and norms of their people, it'spretty clear, just by the way,
they're talking about things,you don't really need that. But

(50:59):
it gets kind of gray, when it's,I don't know, certain one is
talking about certain thingsbecomes sort of unclear. And
then the self location seemsseems to me to be, like, you're
so you're sort of stating, in away, your your privilege, like,

(51:20):
what what your position, theprivilege that your position
gives you. That's kind of how Idescribed it. So an example
would be, you know, I'm, I don'tknow, like, here, I'm, I'm, I'm,
I'm a native from the States,which gives me a different
perspective on, on understandingthe indigenous reality here in

(51:43):
Canada, but I have a privilegebecause I sort of understand
some of the norms there. They,they sort of crossed the
boundary. So it gives me a bitof a privilege. And, you know,
that seems to be self locations,kind of like what you said, the
things that can change or thatare pliable. Like I might have
this privilege now, but I maynot have it later. That kind of

(52:04):
give an example of like, I don'tknow, like a, like a white
banker, a male, white banker,you know, his positionality
would be one, a straight maledude, who's, I don't know,
almost 50, whatever. That's myposition than my self location

(52:24):
is because of that. It offers mea privilege in certain contexts,
I have I have a privilege overother people, because I'm white.
I'm a male. And I work inbanking, that seems like self
location. That pretty similar towhat you said, I think. So this

(52:46):
gets me down to the sort of thenext question. Do indigenous
people have to self locate? Imean, I mean, already, you
already said their their joke.
But is there an instance wherethat's important? Because at
first, I think, well, indigenouspeople, we don't necessarily

(53:08):
have an inherent privilege,unless you're deep inside your
own res, and you're dealing witha bunch of people who aren't
from there. That seems like youwould have a privilege in some
way. It seems

like we do. Maybe we do kind of do something. But
the intent is different, youknow? Yeah. I don't know. I
don't know, though.

What do you mean?
What do you mean?

I don't know what I mean. I don't know. I spend the
majority of my time on thispodcast, trying to keep up with
your brain.

No, this is not this is not advanced stuff. Man.
This is one of my

tactic is just to talk to just out talk.

I'm gonna do on the next podcast, I got some
stats on the percentage of timethat we talk on each podcast.
I'm gonna I'm gonna want to gothrough those as well, um, it's
not surprising. It's notsurprising, but you have to
wait. Let the wait and see that.
I'll make some bar graphs.

I feel like you talk a lot more than I think you
do, though.

Maybe? I don't know. I feel like mine. In

my mind. You don't talk at all. But that's always
been the nature of ourfriendship. Yeah, yeah. It
reminds me you prompt me.

It reminded me of that trip that we took to
Indiana. I remember. Remember?
god darn. What's his name? Ed?
Yeah, Ed. Herman it Herman Yeah.
reminds me that trip that thattrip we took when we were kind
of, we had kind of a little, Idon't know, a little method of,
of interacting with all these.

(54:55):
These these white folks, youknow, and it sort of worked. You
know why? That's right. Yeah,it's

that good cop, bad cop, but kind of a similar idea
where you were by far a littlemore diplomatic than I, I am.

i Well, I wouldn't say that. But I mean, at a
different mode of talking tothese folks that would sort of
cue you off into into somethingthat that was it gave a
different perspective onsomething. You know, I was
working from the angle of, youknow, what we build in the
center, and I want to Yeah, Iguess you're right. Diplomatic,
you know,

there was a little more like, chill. Chill. What
was I like, didn't tell me. Thatwas 2118. That was

long time ago.
Yeah. Now you just broughtbrought the real voice into it,
you know? Yeah. I was beingdiplomatic. God dang it. Yeah.
So

we went to Phoenix for that combo. Like, I
remember, but going to have ananeurysm. Like,

yeah, that was problematic.

So like, there's all cases all kinds of wrong.
There

was there was like multiple red flags. There was a
lot of red flags.
A lot of Yeah, there was a lotof a lot of performance. Let's
just say, that seemed to be alot of performance. Yep. Anyway,
back to this stuff location.
Well, I don't I don't want Idon't know if we need to talk

(56:33):
about it. We can talk about somewe just talk about it. We could
talk about I just don't know, Idon't know about it. I don't do
any of these things. Ideliberately try not to do any
Well, I don't know if you've andI do it deliberately. It's just
natural not to. I feel like myposition. If I'm being
authentic, my idea of where I'mlocated in the structure of the

(56:57):
social stratum, if you will, Ithink that becomes pretty
abundant and clear. In the waythat I talk in what I talk
about, and how I interact inrespond to questions. I take
that approach in my lectures, inany panels I'm on in any

(57:19):
interviews I have to give. I'llI don't feel like a lengthy
introduction is necessary forpeople to understand those two
concepts, the positionality andthe self location. That's that's
in talking, not in writing. Butin talker, yeah.

Okay. And I mean, I don't really know, I don't
really know what it is, becauseI've become so self aware in
almost muscle memory of tokenismand showmanship that like, I
don't function that way. Anyway.
So yeah, I'm having a hard time.

(58:04):
Yeah. Yeah. wrapping my brainaround it, because it's not
something for one that wasintroduced to me, or even if it
was, I wouldn't have acceptedit. So it just wouldn't have
been part of my deal. Give me anexample. Is there like a
published example of something?

I don't know. I don't know. That there isn't? I
mean, if there is I don't knowabout it. What

so what was Selena's question based on like,
what, what lesson, which was shejust asking? Yeah, just

she's like, wondering, what are your
thoughts on the differencebetween these two things? That
was sort of my understandingfrom the things I've worked,
where

are they, in research? Like, where, where are
they? Where are they?

What's I'm not sure where they are in, in any
sort of research methodology? Iwould say I would, I would guess
that, that they probably areprobably advocated for in an
indigenous methodologicalapproach. I'm sure that's out
there somewhere. Whether I thinkthat's right. I don't know. You

(59:08):
know, I'm on the fence about it,because I do think it's good in
a certain regard. But that'sonly in sort of the
dissemination of things. But Idon't know, I don't know of a
lot of situations where that theperformance of telling somebody
who you are and what yourprivilege is really helps

(59:28):
anything. It does, if you put ifyou're wearing the lab coat. It
does if you're wearing the

is that the same as like rights, like, like, do you?

Is it like no, I mean, where

your authority comes from, to talk about
something or to sort ofsomething sort of, I mean,
because I know there's beencases where that's a thing like,
where you would talk where youwould have to where you were
owning rights to things givesyou a third, but I still don't

(01:00:04):
know if people go I have theright unless asked, Where does
your right to this come from?

Shandin Pete (01:00:10):
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Well, hey, I mean, I don't knowif you think I don't know what
what you think about this, butyou know, some, you hear some
native people do that in, in, incertain situations that that are
unique to us, you know, I havethe right to do this. And I was
given this right, and by so andso. And so that's sort of like,
self location, maybe? I don'tknow. I don't know.

Aaron Brien (01:00:38):
Yeah, but I also noticed that only really occurs
when that person is outside oftheir norm. So like, like,
announcing here like in crowcountry, right. That people own
the right to announce to addressthe camp, right. Yeah. I pretty
much know. Like, if certainpeople come up, I question their
right. I know, like, oh, yeah,those who know No, right.

Oh, okay. There's, there's particular communities

and ceremonies where there's the announcing,
right, that is attached to it.
Yeah, but maybe I'm not part ofthat. So when they come out, and
they know, like, oh, normallyI'm not in this arena. Oh, so
they'll say I own this right. Tome by so and so. So typically, I
only have seen that wherethere's an element of

(01:01:25):
unfamiliarity with it.

Yeah, there's sort of more context, or when the
person's new to it. Okay, sothey sort of have to establish
that credibility in a way. Andthen

people are like, Oh, they're not used to seeing
them there yet. So now we know,we know A, B, and C, they own
the right, because we've seenthem public, there's public,
there was witnesses to when theright was given to them, even
whether I'm not there or not. Itwas verified, you know, that was
saying authorized crows like touse that word authorized. Just

(01:01:58):
like the Blackfeet. They saytransfer, right? Transfer,
right. Which is the same idea.
Someone Someone had to witnessthat. And you've always said
that I've always liked to bearwitness. Someone has to witness
what happened. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Same same, but then I get it now. So
if it's out of context, perhapsyou had to establish that, that
credibility in a way? So I don'tknow. I mean, it but that seems
different. In a way, it seemsdifferent. It

does. Because the setting is different. Because
typically, those rights are inservice to somebody else. Yeah.
I don't just walk them and sayI'm an announcer. I can have the
right to speak. Somebody came upto me already. And do you own
the right, somebody? Yeah. Yeah.
So somebody came up to me andsaid, Do you own right? Oh, yes.
From source. Okay. Can you talkfor my family? Oh, okay. So we

(01:02:50):
go out onto the dance floor. Andyeah, now it's for them. I mean,
me, but somebody would, right.
Yeah. And

so what, let me ask you this in that particular
situation with the same players?
Would that work the same? Ifsomebody was asked to speak for
someone at a conference, theysell one, I want you to sort of
introduce me at this conference.
Can you sort of announce for methese things?

I would say? Yeah, I would say the CRO belief is
that those beliefs areeverywhere. Yeah. So when I was
teaching at USC, Casey, yeah,and then kind of going around
lecturing, didn't own the rightto speak in public. And in my
first year, I went into theSundance and on, on like, a day,

(01:03:46):
towards the end of it. A guynamed Walter rolled out came up
to me, who was helping methrough the dance. And he said,
Do you own the right to speak inpublic? And I said, No. And he
said, you know, what's your job?
Yeah, you should follow therules. And you need, you need to
have that right. So I'm going togive that to you. So what he did
is he brought me to the frontand he announced to the, to the,

(01:04:06):
to the people there to thepublic and said, I wish he said,
I was given the right by so andso Roger stops was given the
right by Joe Hill. And by thatpoint, Roger stops was born in
1920. You know what I mean?
Yeah. So like it put that thatright, the cluster chain of

(01:04:30):
custody. Yeah, the lineage.
Yeah. And he said, today, I'mgoing to give him and he said my
name and CRO and he said, he'sgoing to own the right to speak
in public. Because of his job.
This is what he does. And wewant him to follow the rules,
you know, that kind of a thing.
Yeah, there was other people whoown the right, sitting there and
they said, All right, that's ithappen because they recognize

(01:04:51):
his right therefore, he'ssharing that with me, and it was
addressed to the public, youknow, yeah. So in that setting I
wasn't I'm not someone someone'sgonna use that. Crow Fair to
give away. But he saw that aslike you're addressing the
public? Yeah. Yeah. Need to ownthe right to do that. Yeah. And

(01:05:12):
I respect that.

Yeah. And so that that, theoretically can apply
under many different situationseven out of context, even

out of context.
That's, at least that's the wayI would see it, you know? Yeah.
Well, especially out of context,because you I mean, you even
know that no one's if someonecomes up to ask you to sing a
song from one of the from themedicine dance, you're not going
to say, Oh, well, maybe well,but situational, right? You'll
say, Yeah, well, it's not theright time. I should probably do

(01:05:46):
it right now. There's a contextfor it. Yeah.

Yeah. So let me throw a hypothetical out to you.
So let's pretend you're at acollege basketball game. And all
the MCS got sick. And somebodyknows that you're a man with the

(01:06:13):
voice that's conducive tospeaking on the loudspeaker.
They say, Hey, will you speakfor us? And announced for this
game? Do you state at that gamethat you have the right to speak
in public? In your crow ways? Toa largely non native population?

I would Christ I personally would. Okay.

So it matters that those people who have no
understanding of the context, itmatters that you stated that
what

matters, it matters to me matters to you. It to me,
it's important, like just when Isay like, if I said like, if I
didn't own the right to speak,and but because I've said this
before, before I had it, I wouldsay, I don't own the right to
speak in public. But I was askedto do this. So I'm going to do

(01:07:11):
it. But just so you know, Idon't own the right. Like, it's
important. Like, that'simportant for me, you know, does
that mean I'm like doing thatall the time? Not necessarily.
But I think it's almost likesituational. Like, now I own the
right. And I have for I mean,that was 2017 or whatever, you
know. Yeah. Have fun. Yeah.
Yeah. The way I the way I thinkof the way I think of our

(01:07:38):
diplomas, yeah. It's not aslike, knowledge. I don't think
of him as knowledge, I think ashim as the right. Okay. Does
that make sense?

In a way, maybe, maybe explain a bit. What you
saw as a right to what?

So like, if they said, Aaron, you have your
bachelor's degree inanthropology, that doesn't mean
I have the knowledge that you'resupposed to have a master's
degree how I don't know, youknow? Yeah, what it means is I
have the right to be to be ananthropologist. That's a cult. I
see it as Oh, okay. Sure. Allright. Yeah. So just because you

(01:08:21):
might have Shawn Dean has the,the rights, all the cultural
rights to the war dance. Okay.
Let's say that's the thing.
Yeah. That doesn't mean you'renot you're gonna have the
knowledge of it. Okay. Have theright is a function or cultural
function.

Right. Yeah. It

doesn't doesn't necessarily mean, you own a
knowledge of it. Like you havethe knowledge of it. In fact,
there's cases where somebodymight own the, the right to
something the ceremonial rightthere, the person is supposed to
sit there and do this thing. Butthey don't know. They don't have
the knowledge of it. So they'rebeing coached by people who have
the knowledge but don't have theright.

Right. Okay. Yeah, I

get it. Yeah. So it's so to me, that's, that's
how I see or degrees? I don'tsee them as knowledge. Yeah, I
see them as the right. You ownthe right. You've earned the
right. Yeah, the cultural righttest to say that. So

earning a right is not necessarily to say you know
everything about it. Yeah, yep.
Yeah. That it? Is that fairlycommon you think?

I think it's getting more and more common.
Yeah. That's handle handing offof ceremonial rites.

What do you think people do that is do you think
they see a potential and someoneto carry it on or they they just
feel I think it I

think it's varies from okay. Yeah. I also think
that sometimes rights are seenas heirlooms. So Okay, okay. All
right. A transfer. Yeah. Yeah.
And it's seen as an heirloom. Sothey want to like, that's passed
on. Oh, I'm the whatever. I'mthe award. And Chief, that

(01:10:14):
doesn't mean that person ownsall the knowledge of it, but
it's become an heirloom. It'syeah. It's a thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Doesn't mean it's not important,you know? Yeah. Like, okay, I
can say this in the sweat whenwe the person who's running the
sweat. Yeah. They know how to gothrough the things, motions,

(01:10:36):
everything you're supposed todo. Now, I would say that not
everybody knows the meaning ofeverything. Yeah. Yeah. But
their authority is official,they're given that right by this
person, this person, we can'tquestion that. It's not up to me
to say like, I that persondoesn't know, the story of the

(01:10:57):
sweat. So he shouldn't have theright. That's not for me to say,
Yeah, I might want to, you know,but my question or right.
Someone who legitimately had theright, gave that person, I have
to respect that. And I thinknow, I see this more and more,
where we're getting to positionswhere people want to people who

(01:11:18):
don't hold rights, arequestioning people who hold
rights. I might not agree withtheir philosophies. But I in
comparison to a crow culture, Idon't own a lot of rights. I
have some, yeah. But whensomebody when somebody goes up
to talk about a certain thing,and they own those rights do I
gotta shut up?

So then, sort of that idea if it's, if you
compare it to that thing, we'rejust talking about that idea of
self location? That's prettynecessary. Pretty necessary.

Ah, in a certain city, yeah. Yeah.

In a certain setting, if acquired under.

But also don't talk about what you don't know. So if
that person is going up there,and they're gonna go through all
this self locating stuff, andall this, but they don't know
what they're talking about. Theyneed to shut up and just say,
all I'm here to talk about isphysics. That's all I'm gonna
talk to you about.
Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I, ifI'm even talking about the right

(01:12:28):
thing should? I don't know, I

think we are. I don't know. It's an interesting,
it's

more rusty. It's, we're

rusty. It's an interesting thing. And if I had
the time, no, I'm sure there'ssome somebody who wrote all
about where it come from, andall that business and but I
don't know, it feelsinauthentic. Even among a group
of, of indigenous people orNative people, it feels

(01:12:58):
inauthentic. among a group ofnon native people, to me, it
feels it feels awkward. And butbut then again, you know, if it
was something that you'retalking about, where it's it's
sort of a, you know, anexpression of something that
falls in line with a norm in thecommunity, because it maps back

(01:13:25):
to have a particular purpose,ceremonial purpose, and the
authority to do certain things.
And that makes sense to me.
Makes a lot of sense. So I don'tknow, I don't know how I'm, I
don't know what suggestion wecould give for that for the
young people who feel like,well, I want to self locate,

(01:13:47):
because I feel like that'ssomething I have to do. What I
mean, what is what is the deal?
I mean, do you just I mean, youcan say I don't have the right
for have nothing from mycommunity, I got zero rights.
But I have and that

would be cool.
wouldn't actually think thatwould be cool. Somebody would
say, I'm here to talk to youabout a subject that I don't own
rights to. I don't own anyrights. But because I'm placed
in this institution and asked totalk about something I want to
talk about something I'minterested in, something I
wanted to learn about. Soeverything I'm going to talk to
you about is newly acquiredknowledge.

Yeah. That would be that would be that you know
that that actually elevates aperson's credibility? I think
so. 1000 fold 1000 I'd even sayalmost 2000 fold.

Like wow, one Brazilian

I'd actually listen, I'd I

would listen, I would never I personally never
even thought about it until justnow. Yeah, I can see there's
times that I should have saidthat. Yeah. Yeah. Like this was
purely a preservation Project.
You know, this is purely a,like, this is purely I just
wanted to know, I tried tocollect as much knowledge as I
could. Yeah, I have no intentionof using this knowledge for

(01:15:11):
anything outside of learning.

Yeah. Nah, that'd be so calling. If everybody did
that, man. That's the thing,then. That's the thing. So I
want you to promote that bydoing it. I look good. The next
time next next time we talk. Iwant to see if you did,

I was asked to give a shields talk. Yeah. I'm gonna
say I'm gonna say it there.
Okay, this is purely apreservation project. I don't
own the rights to any of thesethings. Yeah. Yeah. Do it. I'm
gonna Oh, well, when

is it? When is it?

This one I'm doing at the Society of American
anthem. Oh, you should go. Whenis it? When is it New Orleans in
April? Oh,

what date?

We could probably figure this out without
recording.

Okay. Oh, yeah.
Let's talk about that. Okay.
Okay. Do that. Report back?
On on how it made you feel? Iwant to know your feelings. Can
you keep a journal? A thoughtjournal? And

I already know it's gonna make any. It's gonna make
me do it already. I already knowit. I already know.

Okay. All right.
That's

self what did we call him that self

location?

Is that self location?

I have no idea. I didn't I never looked at the the
meaning or the definition. Or Ijust kind of went off my gut
what I thought it was. So wecould be way off. But that seems
right though. It seemsauthentic. If there if the idea
of of locating yourself, youought to say what you know, and
what you don't know. Right. Andsort of your intent, I guess. I

(01:17:02):
think

it's even more important for non Indian people
to hear that because there'sthis token Indian thing that we
know everything about our peopleall the time. So it's like, I
was asked to do this. I didn'tturn it down. I took the
opportunity to learn something Idon't know anything about. Yeah.
Yeah. I own no rights to thesethings. Yeah. Therefore you none

(01:17:28):
of you can own any rights tothem. Yeah. And we're just here
to talk about something fun. Andthat's all we're gonna do. Man,
that would be cool. Like,something like that, you know?
Yeah.

agreement that it feels more authentic.

Feels like I can see I can see myself doing that.

Okay. Do it, man.
Do it. We're gonna report back.
When this is an April, we'llrecord before April. So you're

ready. I think we're trying to we're gonna get
back on track. We've done this afew times. Yeah, we're gonna get
back on track. But people,people need to remember that
when you and I agreed to do thispodcast after the SK HC days, we
had this unspoken agreement thatyeah, we're gonna do it when we
want to do it. And it's gonna befun. If we turn it into a chore

(01:18:19):
than it'll be a chore. You'regonna get the cheapest version
of the cheapest. And I want tobe the best for you this.

I'm doing this for you. Remember? I'm doing this
for you. You wanted to do this?
This is all you

I learned it from watching you. Do you remember
that commercial? And he grabsthat box and there's weed in it.
And he's like, Where'd you learnthis? Where'd you learn this?
From watching you

are the one where the kids like helping his dad
fix the car and he spills theoil and the oil spills on the
dead and goes Darren out fromunder the guards and yell at his
kid. And then I don't knowthere's some like message and
then it shows him reflecting onit. Then he decides to cheat a
little bit better. Do youremember that one? Yeah. Yeah,

those are those are like the

Yeah. The more you know, the more you know. Yeah,
little star goes flashing, butthe more you know, anyways.

Yeah. How long have we recorded

but hour and 15

Oh, we should stop.
Yeah, let's

do it. Let's stop.
We're stifling. Yeah, we'rewe're starting to devolve into
80s Commercials 90s commercials.
Okay, let's let's do it. Let'swrap it.

Sounds good, man.

Put done, man. I'm sick talking to you. I sick i
Don't miss you. I

miss you and I don't want to talk about it.

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#52 - Authenticity Under Surveillance: A Native’s Guide to Being Yourself…Everywhere!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#52 - Authenticity Under Surveillance: A Native’s Guide to Being Yourself…Everywhere!