September 24, 2025 • 53 mins
If you have ever wondered how to get unstuck from the emotional loops that keep you repeating the same patterns, this episode is for you. Licensed therapist and author Kati Morton joins me to explore why familiar behaviors feel safe even when they are harmful, how early conditioning shapes our choices, and what it really takes to step into change.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, just popping in for a quick second to
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(00:20):
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(01:03):
I'm super honored to be invitedto be a part of this one as
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Let's get back to the show.
Welcome to Tried and True withAdash and Wu, where we blend
rock solid tips with a littlebit of magic.
(01:44):
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here, so are
you ready to get inspired andhave some fun?
Let's dive in.
Hi friends, welcome back totried and true with the Dash of
(02:06):
Woo.
I'm your host, renee Bowen.
Today's conversation is one thatI know many of you are going to
resonate with, because we'rediving into the patterns that
keep us stuck.
So if you have ever caughtyourself thinking, why do I just
keep doing this, whether that'sin your relationships, your
business or just sort of how youshow up in the world, you're
(02:27):
not alone.
We all have these loops that werepeat, not because they're
good for us, but because they'refamiliar.
So you've heard me talk aboutthat a lot, and breaking free
from them takes more than justwillpower.
It takes awareness, nervoussystem support and a whole lot
of self-trust.
My guest today is someone whohas been leading that
conversation around mentalhealth for over a decade.
(02:48):
Katie Morton is a licensedmarriage and family therapist, a
best-selling author and apowerhouse voice in the mental
health space, with a YouTubechannel that's reached millions.
Her new book why Do I KeepDoing?
This is all about how our earlyconditioning and survival
strategies show up in adulthoodand how we can finally shift
(03:08):
them.
So what I really love aboutKatie's work is that she blends
the clinical with the intuitive.
She helps us see not just whatwe're doing, but why we're doing
it, and that opens the door forreal change.
This conversation is going togive you some insight into why
you stay stuck and also how tobegin finding your way out and
(03:30):
stick around till the end,because, after my chat with
Katie, I'm going to be sharingsome of my own takeaways and
some practical tools that youcan use right away to create
movement if you're feeling stuckin your own life and business.
So let's dive in.
Here's my conversation withKatie Morton.
Katie, thanks so much for beinghere.
I'm really excited about thisconversation because I talk
(03:52):
about some of the things thatwe're going to talk about a lot,
but you are like the pro inthis field.
I mean, you've been doing thiswork for well over a decade,
reaching millions of people withvideos and books and talks, and
so I just kind of want to startreally quickly at the beginning
, what sort of drew you to focusso deeply on mental health, but
(04:13):
specifically on the patternsthat keep people stuck?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
In general, I was drawn topsychology and being a therapist
because I love people and, forlack of a better explanation, I
get really bored, like I haveworked a lot of jobs and after a
while it's just kind of thesame old shtick every day.
But therapy's not like that,because people are different and
(04:37):
lives change and situationsadjust and we have to manage,
and I find that it's the mostfulfilling work I've ever done.
I also, as a kid, love beinglike the secret keeper you know,
and like knowing the dirtydeets, but also taking pride in
the fact that I wouldn't tellanybody you know, and so that's
kind of what started it.
And then, especially when itgets into what we're going to
(04:59):
talk about today, like patternsthat keep us stuck.
I honestly was drawn to thisbecause I struggle.
I think everybody struggles andif any therapist or mental
health professional tells youthey don't, they're lying,
because we're human and we allhave these propensities for
behaving in certain ways.
A lot of it comes fromchildhood.
It can also come from otherexperiences we've had that we're
drawing from, and I just reallyfelt like it was something that
(05:22):
I not only wanted to takepeople along on my journey.
But I also just wanted tonormalize the fact that we all
have things we do that we wishwe would stop doing.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Totally yeah.
Now, I was kind of the same way.
Right, I have a bachelor's inpsychology.
I never went through it.
It was my intention to go andget that master's and to be a
therapist and then life justtook a big detour.
But that was sort of like.
You know my own stuff too.
I was.
I was the anxious kid.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We didn't know it was that we didn't talk about it
like we do now, like when I grewup, I'm like not everybody has
like a racing heart for noreason, right?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I just thought everybody was like that, because
how would I not, you know, likethat's just our own experience,
right.
And I remember kind of havingboth of those feelings like does
everybody feel like this?
And also I feel like I might bethe only one Right.
And so I think part of me justlike seeking fellow you know
people who got it and then I inhigh school, we actually had a
(06:17):
psychology class in high schoolwhich was kind of progressive,
for me back in the day and itjust started when I was in high
school, like I think I was oneof the first classes to do it
and I was like this is so cool.
Yes, yeah.
So same thing for me and I waslike, oh, I dig this, I think I
could do this, so that's cool.
I love hearing about how peopleare drawn to it because you do
you have to love people to likereally want to do what you do.
(06:38):
And so, okay, you've saidbefore that these patterns, you
know, of keeping people stuck,they're not random, they're
survival strategies a lot of thetimes right.
And so, like, let's kind of diginto that a little bit and
maybe even if you could share astory or an example of like what
that could look like, because Iknow you've seen and heard a
lot and experienced a lot of ityourself.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, there's a ton of directions we can take this
in.
I'll just offer one that I talkabout in my book, specifically
about, like perfectionism.
So I struggle a lot with peoplepleasing perfectionism, trying
to make myself smaller.
There's a ton of things wecould get into all those things,
but perfectionism in particular.
I was able, through my owntherapy, to connect it directly
(07:21):
to my relationship with my dad.
Okay, and so I'm going to kindof walk you through so you can
see how your past can dictateyour present and your future if
we don't recognize it'shappening.
So my dad, growing up great dadloved being a father, but a big
piece of what he thought hisrole was was to earn money for
the family, which meant heworked away from home a lot, and
I thought in my little kidbrain that he would be able to
(07:44):
show up for my choir concert orfor my sports event, like my
softball game or my soccer gameor whatever, or be there for me
more.
If I was better, like if I didbetter, then that would mean he
could show up, because he keepssaying he's going to show up and
then he ends up having to flyto, like Alabama or, you know,
alaska or wherever.
So, as a result of my dadworking away from home and me
(08:06):
not really understanding the whyand I don't know if it's
because nobody talked to meabout it or what my family
wasn't the most communicative,you know, like most of ours it's
just like a newer thing.
But I tried to make sense of itthe best I could and I thought
it was because I wasn't astraight A student.
I wasn't a straight-A student,I wasn't the first chair in band
, I wasn't getting all of thesolos and choir you try to chalk
(08:30):
it up to these things.
I wasn't on the varsity teamyet I thought that if I did that
then I would get him to bearound me more.
And because of that I take thatinto, because I didn't
recognize this.
I took it into teenage years,you know, up into college and my
20s and even, honestly, into myearly 30s, of just thinking
that if I didn't do somethingperfectly, then it wasn't good
(08:54):
enough, and then that meant thatI wasn't going to be worthy of
love, I wasn't going to beworthy of attention, and so I
know that might be like asimplistic explanation, but
things like that are so common.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, they really, really are.
And it's kind of interesting tome because, I mean, it's one of
the reasons why I went back andgot certified in some things
when I started coachingentrepreneurs, because they were
coming to me for businesscoaching.
You know like, oh, how did youdo this?
How are you making money?
And I quickly realized, okay,there's nothing I could teach
(09:27):
you that you're going toactually follow through on if
you don't, sort of like, go backand fix this other thing.
But I'm not a therapist, so Ican't, like you know, do that
part with you.
And a lot of my coaching clientsdo have therapists too I will
just mention that which is greatbecause I think that they can
work really well together, right, because, like, a coach can
challenge you in different ways,and I think that there's a
(09:48):
beautiful dance that happenswhen I work with someone who has
a therapist.
I love, love, love it.
But yeah, for me that's a greatexample, because that
perfectionism, especially withfemale creatives, is legit, a
running theme like in some wayor another, and it's a great
example too, I think, of likethat was your experience with it
(10:10):
, right, and that's how it sortof played out.
But someone else could come tome and I even have the same
thing, right, but it's becauseof a different reason.
And when you dig deeper, right,that's just kind of like what
it's about.
It's like noticing where that'scoming from, and this other
piece of it is like being ableto access that information
(10:33):
without it continuing to stir itup and trigger you and keep you
in this like fight or flight.
So that's sort of like thatpiece that I think is so
important.
It's like, yeah, okay, that'swhere it comes from, but okay,
now what?
Right, and that's definitelysomething that you work with
people in therapy, you know for.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, because knowing is it's a huge.
I feel like it's more than halfthe battle, because we can't
change what we don't understand,right, but that doesn't really
get me through.
It doesn't actually change it,but it allows me to see like, oh
, okay, for me it comes fromthis belief that, like, somehow
perfectionism equals attentionand love.
(11:09):
And then essentially a lot ofmy therapy work has been like
disproving that, like untanglingthat, so I can see.
It's like I always tell mypatients and my viewers I'm like
sometimes you have to checkyour facts and thoughts are not
facts, and having a thoughtmultiple times for years and
years doesn't make it a fact.
And so you have to take alittle time with yourself to be
like hey, like when I catchmyself thinking like right now
(11:32):
I'm sitting on something Ishould turn in, but I keep
reading it through and I'm like,why are you doing this?
Like you know, are you, do youfeel like you're not good enough
?
Is that what this is about?
Are you afraid're gonna failand then that's gonna mean
something else?
You know you have to kind ofchallenge yourself and push
yourself and be like just do it.
You know, 80 is enough.
Or you know, um?
(11:52):
One of my favorite quotes and Imentioned in my book comes from
the workbook the artist's way,yes, which I love.
If somebody, if you haven'tdone it, do with it's amazing,
it's a lot of work, god,life-changing.
One of the quotes in there.
She says perfectionism.
I always thought was seekingout the best in things, but it
was actually me looking for theworst 100%.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Oh my God, like I have chills, I know, and I've
done the Artist's Way and I'veread it.
And it's so interesting becausemy younger son, who just
graduated from music college,and he just we had given him
that book years ago, rightProbably when he was like 18.
He wasn't ready yet.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, I mean that's awesome to even have.
I mean I did it for the firsttime at like 36.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, we were that.
I mean, I'm married to an actor, a writer, I'm married to
probably the most creativeperson on earth and I think I'm
kind of like somewhere, half Ihave one foot in, one foot out,
like I'm creative but I'm alsoreally logical, and so we were
very early adopters of all ofthat.
So our kids kind of grew uparound all of that, you know,
honestly, and we talked about it.
But he in particular, he is atrue artist and you know, now
(13:01):
just graduating, and he's likein the what if?
Period of his time, and it wasfunny because he called me and
he was like, hey, can you sendme that book Because I think I'm
ready for it now?
And I was like, oh my God, he'sasking for it.
It's amazing.
So, anyway, just like a littleside note about the artist way,
like if you haven't done it andyou are an artist or creative or
anyone, like it's just aphenomenal and it is a lot, you
(13:22):
have to sort of devote some timeto it.
But all that to say, it'sdefinitely so true that you're
looking to prove what youbelieve right, like somewhere
along the line you believe thatyou aren't perfect or whatever,
and so it's like thatunconscious trigger of looking
for proof of that, because we'regoing to find proof of what
(13:42):
we're looking for.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, and that's like the I love, that's a really
important piece is likeconfirmation bias and people
don't talk enough about it.
How think of like the fact thatif you see that there's this
new car out on the market andyou see a commercial for it,
then suddenly you see iteverywhere and you're like, have
I?
Just?
Why am I seeing this everywhere?
Because you know of it now andit has more of a tie in your
(14:06):
brain, and so, instead of itdriving by and you're not even
paying attention, now you'relike oh, look at that car.
Oh, your brain loves patterns,it loves to look for things that
prove things it already knows.
Right, learning new information?
Challenging ourselves is hardand it's unknown and our brain
doesn't like that.
It's a little bit scary.
We don't really know what'sgoing to happen, and so our
(14:28):
brain goes looking for thethings that we quote, unquote,
already know, for more proofthat it's true.
And so, in order to untanglethese things, we have to like
force our brain out and to belike no, no, no, I'm going to
look like.
I always tell my patients andmy viewers alike I'm like you
know, you have to go out and belike what is an alternative to
(14:51):
this story right, it's almostlike I call it being a detective
about it.
We think of these.
Okay, this person I love likecrime, so I'm like this person
was murdered.
They don't just automaticallylike it was the boyfriend.
They're like it could be theboyfriend.
It could also maybe be theneighbor.
It could also like.
I need you to do that work.
I need you to say this could behappening because I'm no good,
(15:12):
or this could be happeningbecause this person is having a
tough day.
That's why they were kind of anasshole.
This person acted this way.
You know it had nothing to dowith me.
I.
I need you to challenge andpush your brain to come up with
some other alternatives.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Totally.
And when I learned about thereticular activating system,
which is basically kind of whatwe're talking about here, is
that filter in our brain, itsort of changed my life.
I was like, oh okay, that'swhat they mean by that, because,
like, it really is a system ofour brain, like you said, like
it loves patterns and it's goingto look for proof, and so if
you believe that no one's goingto pay these prices or whatever,
(15:46):
because it's going to show upin a lot of different ways.
You know, like, not just likein your personal life, it'll
show up in your business,especially if you were a solo
business owner.
Like 100% it's going to show up.
And that's for me, that's whenmy money stuff started showing
up, because I grew up I was,like you know, my parents were
divorced when I was seven and ahalf, like seven basically, and
(16:07):
I didn't really have arelationship, close relationship
, with my dad.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So you can imagine that there was a lot of stuff
that went.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
but God bless my mom Like she put me in therapy when
I think I was like 17.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
My mom at 15 put me in.
I'm forever grateful.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Same, because, girl, she must have seen like this is
an anxious child, you know whatI mean.
Like I really didn't know, Ididn't have the words for that
then, and so a lot of that wasplayed out.
But all that to say like Ididn't really even know, I had
issues with like asking for asale or have money stories or
any of that stuff, like beliefsabout money.
I didn't even think about itreally in those terms until I
(16:43):
had to go out there and startasking people to pay me for work
that I did and that was like awhole different story.
And that's when I realized Ihad some worth.
Things tied to like why my dadwasn't there and not paying
child, all this stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Like being a woman and asking like there's so many
layers, so many layers, yeah,and so I had to sit with it too,
and that was the piece of.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It is like that's what the gift of therapy is that
a good therapist will walk youthrough that and you will learn
to sit with it and access itwhere it's not going to kill you
, it's not going to.
You know what I mean.
Like there is that place and sohuge believer and proponent of
therapy for so many reasons.
But okay, so let's talk alittle bit about in your new
book.
I love this whole topic.
(17:31):
Why do I keep doing?
This is the name of the book,which means hello, it's perfect.
Like, why do I keep doing this?
You explain why familiardoesn't always mean healthy and
so why do we cling to what weknow, even when it's painful?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Because, just, it's a great segue because of what
we're talking about.
Our brain loves patterns, itloves predictability and I know
you're like.
So what does that mean?
Why would it want unhealthy,why would it want painful, why
would it want to put me inanother hurtful or abusive
situation?
Because it already knows it,because it knows what that means
, how it's going to feel, thatwe can survive it, because we
(18:09):
already have, and it kind oflike, has walked through all the
steps.
So when we try to do somethingdifferent, our brain's like whoa
, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I don't know these steps, Idon't know the outcome.
That unknown, that newdirection you want to take, this
is scary, right, it's notpredictable.
I can't already tell you andplan and prepare.
(18:30):
It feels very unknown.
And so, because our brain lovespatterns and that's not a
pattern yet, it's a brand newthing it would prefer you go
back to what you already know,which is why breaking out of I
call it the blueprint, like whenwe're born and, like you said,
(18:50):
like not having your dad around,like these are ways that our
blueprint is being drawn, andeach of us has strengths in our
blueprint and weaknesses in ourblueprint, but in order to
redraw it.
We have to take a gamble.
I'm going to make this roomthis big.
Do I know if it really needs tobe that big?
I don't, but I'm going to do itbecause I know that I can't go
back to this other way.
I have to erase that and I haveto redraw right, and so we're
just taking chances.
(19:10):
And so that's really why newand novel, as healthy and as
wonderful and as hopeful as itcan be, can feel terrifying and
be the hardest thing for you todo.
It's almost like a good examplefor me is that I don't.
I really hate conflict,surprise, surprise.
And so when I was having anissue with my husband and we've
(19:32):
been together, god, for like Idon't know 16, 17 years and I,
instead of leaning in andtelling him like hey, what you
said really hurt my feelings, orI wish you would have addressed
me this way or that way, I liketo run away.
I'm like my silence will speakvolumes.
It's like kind of passive,aggressive, but also just like I
don't know how to communicatemy needs.
(19:53):
And I've been in therapy sinceI was 15.
I'm 40.
Like I should get my shittogether right, I'm also a
therapist, but just because weknow better doesn't mean we
always do better.
But my therapist had told me,when you sense that runaway,
that pull out or puffer fishing,like that's what I call it like
stick spines out, she goes.
I want you to do somethingreally uncomfortable.
I want you to do oppositeaction.
(20:13):
I want you to lean in to himand I want you to say, hey, that
hurt my feelings and I don'treally know how to deal with it.
She's like you don't have tohave a resolution, you don't
have to have an answer.
Lean in Now when I tell you forme to talk to him.
I love my husband, he's a greatman.
(20:33):
I was so nervous.
I'm like, walking up to him inhis office, I'm like, okay,
we're going to do this, we cando this, we can do this.
We can say, hey, the way yousaid that just hurt my feeling.
He was like, oh my God, Ididn't know, I'm so sorry.
And then he, yeah, in a matterof I would have like ruminated
on that for days, resolved in afew seconds.
(20:55):
But to say that it wasn't hardand that it wasn't against every
fiber of my being would be alie.
And so when you're makingdifficult changes, just know
that that discomfort, that theanxiety, the sweaty palms and
the shaky voice is all part ofthe process and that you'll get
better and it will feel morecomfortable because, just like
(21:15):
we said, our brain lovespatterns.
It loves to know how thingsturn out.
So now my brain's like oh, Ican say stuff to him and it's
not terrible.
Exactly, I just opened up awhole new part of my blueprint.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, and you're creating all those new neural
pathways that we know actuallyis a thing with the neuroscience
.
Like every time you do that,that groove will get deeper and
then you'll get to.
It'll become more of thatpattern and of a familiar
feeling, but in a good way thistime, and so you're literally
rewiring your brain, which is sofun and awesome that we can do
(21:47):
that.
But it's so interesting becauseI have the same thing, like it
took me again, like I've been intherapy for so long, I have a
degree in it, like I believe init, and yet it's like someone is
cutting me open withoutanesthesia for me to actually
say those words.
It was like what the heck isgoing on here, you know and it
doesn't take a rocket scientistto figure out why I would have
(22:09):
those issues and be like it'spretty clear on paper, but it,
you know, you get so close to it.
Everything is like right here,and when you're in that fight or
flight it's really hard to go.
Oh okay, there's something elsegoing on here and I am safe.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I am safe in this place.
And fight and fight or flight.
It helps me always knowneuroscience a little bit to get
a little nerdy with it that,like when our fight flight is
triggered, that means ouramygdala is firing, our limbic
system shooting messages, andwhat that does is it prioritizes
safety and essentially,security for us, and there's no
(22:45):
here's the big kicker there's noprefrontal cortex action.
It takes it offline, and that'simportant to know, because your
prefrontal cortex is organizedthought, planning and
preparation and also language, alot of organized language.
So of course it's like it'shard for me to communicate.
My mind goes blank when I go totalk about something I'm
(23:06):
stressed about right and I can'tput in the steps to make that
happen.
It's hard and so your brain'skind of fighting against you a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I always say, when that happens, all the blood will
rush to your limbs.
So you get fast, but you getdumb because it literally brings
it out of everything else.
You're not thinking in a logical, conscious way.
You are literally just runningon your programming at that
point.
And if you've got someprogramming which all of us do,
it just depends on, like, whatlevel of it is right, like so
(23:38):
big T or little t, you know, andso it can be a lot.
But I find I want to touch onthis really quickly before we
kind of go further on that,because what I think is really
very interesting because you hadsaid before about how anything
that is new or novelty right isgoing to trigger those responses
in us, and I just think it's sofunny, it's like a cruel joke.
(24:02):
I think that so many of uscreatives have these spicy,
neurodivergent brains and wecrave the new, we want something
new, we want to like we havelike 50 million ideas and we
want to follow them and we havelike it's exciting, and then we
start doing it.
We're like oh crap, I do notthink this is for me, so like I
(24:23):
want to kind of like dig intoyour therapist brain on that a
little bit.
Like so, and also because Imean I kind of approach it too
from like the metaphysical,where it's like okay, I really
believe that if you were drawnto something, it's meant for you
and your higher self is likesort of popping in and saying,
okay, no, this is good for youand that there are no mistakes.
Right, like, okay, if you'redrawn to it, there's a reason
(24:43):
why, and all of those triggerscontain some gold for you if
you're willing to look at it.
But I want to kind of hear yourtake on that.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I mean especially my ADHD patients.
They have the only thingsthey'll purchase in like a
weekend.
They're like I decided I'mgoing to do knitting and I
bought all of this stuff and Ihave all these plans and blah,
blah, blah, and then they do itfor a week and they're like I
decided I hate it.
Totally fair.
I think there's a couple ofthings here.
First of all, we have torecognize our impulsivity.
(25:11):
Everybody has different amounts, different things that cause it
.
One of the best things we canall do, period bar none, is
check in with yourself beforeyou make any major decisions.
You make any major purchases,you decide your next move.
It doesn't mean like to yourpoint, we can't get excited, we
(25:32):
can't journal a little bit aboutthis new idea and this thing we
want to do and what it wouldtake.
That's all great.
That's like giving yourselftime to process, because what
usually ends up happening?
The reason I said check in withyourself is I always talk about
halt, hungry, angry, lonely,tired.
It's a great resiliencecheck-in.
Have I eaten in the last threeto four hours?
(25:53):
How did I sleep last night?
Have I connected with someone?
That I really feel like gets me, you know?
Am I angry about something Ihaven't communicated.
Often those are lingering inthe back.
We don't even recognize it.
Check in with that before youstart taking a leap.
Like you said, there's nothingwrong with having flights of
ideas and you're so excited andI want to try this new thing.
I want to take up knitting.
But we don't have to spend $400on Amazon in one night to do
(26:17):
this thing.
Let's check in.
Hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
How are you doing?
Okay, maybe we journal a littlebit about.
That's what I used to tell oneof my ADHD patients.
By the time she'd journal aboutwhat it was going to take,
she'd already hate it a lot oftimes, and so that would save
(26:38):
her from like jumping in.
So there's that piece.
But then there's also this Icall it like the compassionate
piece where we have to be likebut that child us, that
impulsive, excited, is beautifuland you should care for that
and cultivate that.
But again, that doesn't mean wehave to make huge financial
decisions, change our businessplan and pivot again or
communicate this to anybody.
I think it's enjoying that partof ourselves, like when you
journal about this.
I don't want you to shame orblame, I want to be like.
(27:00):
I'm so excited.
This is so beautiful.
I can imagine myself makingthese quilts that I will put on
the wall and whatever I'm goingto make music, it's going to be
amazing.
Let yourself go down the pathwhile just checking in, because
when we're hungry, angry andlonely, tired, we're way more
impulsive.
We're way more apt to makedecisions that aren't based in
our best interest.
Our prefrontal cortex might notbe online, right, the blood
(27:21):
will be in our limbs.
We're not necessarily who knowsright.
So those are just kind of thethings I think of when I think
of, like, neurodivergence andthe beautiful piece of that that
creates amazing art, because Idon't want to shut down that
pipeline, but you do want tojust be a little bit more
intentional, which I know ishard, because we get excited and
(27:42):
we want to make moves.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
For sure.
I see it in lots of differentways inside of my coaching and
just in my own house.
I like to say like there'sbasically a neurodiversity soup
in my house, you know, likesomebody who's got autism or
ADHD or both or whatever, and solike it's just a lot of
checking in.
I mean, that's honestly I don'tthink I've heard it as that
acronym before, but and which Ilove and I remember, cause my
(28:06):
oldest has autism and it wasprobably one of his therapists
that was talking about that withus, with him when we were
trying to like kind of like dealwith some behaviors when he was
really little, and I rememberthinking I think we definitely
need to be using that more.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
We all do the things I do in the heat of the moment
or when I'm frustrated, you knowyeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Like my husband wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until
he was in his forties, and so Ilook back now you know I'm in
my fifties and he is too, and wewere talking about this the
other day.
It was really, it was reallyfunny because we were having a
good laugh about it now, butit's so crazy to us to like
think about those earlier days,like even just like, with us
(28:51):
being new parents and havingthree kids under the age of two
and, you know, him being anactor, like just having this
really wild life.
I was like can you imagine whatpeople aren't like the outside
looking in, we must've lookedlike absolute chaos, like even
our adult kids will talk aboutthis.
Now they're like, yeah, we usedto take these long, long road
trips we love a good road tripin our minivan and they loved it
(29:13):
.
They still talk about how theyloved it, but like it was chaos,
like it was absolute, likeinsanity, and it wasn't until
our kids got older and they werein our teenage years and I
think that you know we were sortof like, you know everything
was just getting not as crazylet's just say Crazy is not the
right word but chaotic.
Okay, yeah, that we were allstarting to notice I don't think
(29:39):
other people- have familieslike this.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't think.
I think it's just us.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think we're just part, yeah, yeah.
And my daughter says that nowshe's in her grad program and
she's like, yeah, it was a lot,it was a lot in our house and I
was like I know, and I didn'trealize it because I was in it,
and now that I look back I'mlike, yeah, it was, it was.
There was just a lot going onat all times Like someone was
always in that place of like alittle bit of dysregulation, I
(30:03):
think, you know.
And so learning how to regulateyourself, that's that's sort of
a good good segue into thisconversation, I think, because
that all goes hand in hand withwhat we're talking about and
being stuck and sort of likebreaking out of that blueprint.
So I talk a lot about nervoussystem regulation just in
general and on the show at mycoaching, just in my life.
How do our bodies play intopatterns of keeping us stuck as
(30:27):
well, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
The truth is, they have a huge role because, like I
talked about going to talk tomy husband, when I'm like I need
to say something and I don'tlike my palms get sweaty, I feel
shaky, like you're my anxiety,like we can feel not only
mentally could our thoughts feellike they're racing or feel
scrambled, but our bodyexperiences the same upset and
(30:50):
dysregulation.
Right, because they'reconnected.
I hate when people are likeit's mental health or physical
health.
I'm like they are part of thesame unit.
I don't know why we're havingthis conversation, and so just
recognizing how your bodyresponds can be really, really
powerful, because there are aton of different kind of really
basic things I guess you can do,but kind of like neuros, you're
(31:13):
like calming your body down.
They can call them groundingtechniques, you can call them
just neuroscience-backedbehavior techniques, but there
are two that I find to be themost effective.
Number one is temperaturechange.
So if you find yourself feelingincredibly overwhelmed, your
body is responding to I don'tknow.
Let's say, your boss gave yousome feedback you weren't
(31:33):
prepared to hear and you'rehaving a.
You don't want to cry at work,you don't want to yell, so we
sit with it and maybe tears comewithout us even wanting them
and we're like, why am Ifreaking out?
And you're sweating a lot andyou're like, oh my God, oh my
God, go and get.
Like, maybe keep a water bottlein the freezer at work.
If you can, you grab that waterbottle and you put it on the
back of your neck.
Cold is.
When I say temperature change,I mean bring cold into the
(31:56):
picture.
Hot, I guess if you're in areally cold area, hot tea could
work, no-transcript.
(32:21):
The second one, and one that Irecently discovered, probably a
few months ago, is I don't evenknow what I would call it.
I just call it like brain reset, but it's making your brain do
something odd, like, let's say,you're maxed out again at work.
Same situation your boss gaveyou feedback.
I want you, if you write withyour left hand, I want you to
write with your right hand for alittle bit.
Or I want you to and this mightsound a little weird if you
(32:42):
have a little privacy in youroffice, I want you to walk
backwards.
I know this sounds really crazyI want you to tap your head and
rub your stomach, because whatthat does is that autopilot we
kind of talked about, like howyour brain loves those patterns
and it wants to go right intothe old way that we used to
communicate, the old way we usedto engage.
It forces it out of that, itmakes it think, yep, it pulls us
(33:03):
into the prefrontal cortex.
I have to think about this, Ihave to plan this, I have to
like what am I doing?
Even counting backwards,skipping a number like 10 to 8.
It sounds so simple, but itreally tricks your brain and
snaps it out of that.
And so those are just a coupleof things.
I mean we could talk groundingtechniques too.
Yeah, there's so many, truly.
(33:24):
There's a zillion, one that mypatients always have loved over
the years, is counting.
Colors is what we call them.
So in your room, look aroundlike how many things are brown,
how many things are blue, andthat just brings you back into
the present and stops youessentially from freaking out.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
That's a really good tactic that I've used, that I've
taught my kids to use withtheir anxiety, to break out of a
panic attack.
Because when you're in thatplace it's really hard Like you
don't.
It's hard to snap out of it,especially if you're new to
panic attacks, like now.
I'm like a seasoned panicattacker, like you know what I
mean.
Now I'm like, oh, it's just apanic attack, I know how to get
(33:59):
myself out of it.
When I started having like thefirst panic attack, I, my kids,
a couple of my kids have reallybad anxiety too, and so that's
one of the things that I taughtthem early on.
That really, really works.
(34:20):
Like I want you to today justjust see how many purple things
you can find, just in general.
You know, and I love I'm acounter, like that's sort of
like my little OCD thing thatI've got is like a count
everything and I mean like,unconsciously I don't notice
that I'm doing which is reallyhilarious, because I could
barely pass algebra Like it's sofunny.
(34:40):
I'm like, why am I not a mathwizard?
Because, like, literally, Icount everything just
unconsciously and I count bytwos and it's just like an
anxiety thing.
Wasn't until college that Ilearned.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Oh, this is this is one of the OCDs.
Oh yeah, I know I used to spelleverything before I'd say it
and my therapist was like people, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I was like what do you mean?
People don't count on theirteeth.
What are you talking about?
You don't sing with your teethlike in counting twos.
And people were like what areyou?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
How, like how are you functioning right now?
And you're like I'm not.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's actually how I'm functioning.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Just so you know, that's the little thing that I
do.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, exactly yeah no , I love those tips because
they're simple, they're easy,the temperature change for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, 100%, have used that a lot.
So those are good little littlehacks and I tell people, if you
are, if you do struggle withpanic attacks or dissociation,
keep those.
You know those little breakpacks that turn to ice for like
first aid kits.
You can buy them in bulk onAmazon.
I know you might not want likea huge amount, but having 10 or
so like I have one in the car orI have one in my purse, I have
one at work in my desk Like thatmight save you my desk, like
(35:52):
that might save you.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So you know, keep those on hand too.
Yeah, good, good tip, I lovethose.
That's awesome.
I have to go Amazon here I come, okay, so you, you've built a
really unique space, just ingeneral, where you do you merge
the clinical side of therapy andthe science based, you know,
data with a little bit more ofan intuitive awareness, which I
love, and I'm just interested tohear your perspective on that,
(36:16):
why you think that combinationis important in healing.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Well, before we started filming, I was like I
love your podcast, I love alittle bit of woo, because I am
kind of woo-woo and I always usethat term, too, with my
audience.
I'm like I know this is alittle woo-woo to hang with me,
and the truth about it is, firstof all, I've always felt I'm a
very intuitive person and peoplecan think or judge whatever
they want to think or judge.
But I mean, I have a ton ofdifferent examples of like deja
vu that came to fruition and wasa thing and my grandma had it
(36:43):
too and I feel like there's kindof this like we do know now
through new neurologicalresearch that we have more than
our five senses.
I know we talk about the sixthsense, but I don't know if
you've heard more recently.
They're thinking we have likesenses in the like 20s or 30s of
them, and so there's a lot ofdifferent things that I don't
feel like everyone's tapped into.
That's not judgment, like weshould be tapped into all of
(37:04):
them, but I do feel like we needto use all of the resources we
have available to help us bebetter and feel better and be
more in tune with our world.
I think it's really easy thesedays to disconnect and to feel
like you know we're alone insomething, that we don't have
any idea how we're feeling orthinking.
And I'm always encouragingpeople to tap in and I think
(37:28):
that comes along with a littlebit of that woo-woo, like, if
you have an intuition that asituation is bad, get out of
that situation.
If you have a little feelingthat like maybe I should just
journal about this, journalabout this.
Like my specialty is in eatingdisorders.
That's where I started and alot of what I used to run this
group called the Body and SoulGroup and a lot of what I was
trying to help the women in theclinic I worked at recreate was
(37:52):
the connection between you andyour body and like your body
sends signals.
We talked about how your bodyfeels when you start to feel
anxious.
A lot of people that arelistening might have been like
oh my God, that was anxiety.
Oh, that makes sense.
I didn't even connect.
I think if we don't use all thethings we have I know it's like
(38:17):
a long-winded answer of like weneed to use all our resources
so that we can be not only morein tune with ourselves but then
with our world, and I feel likeit makes things just ever so
slightly easier and I feel likethen we're tapped into more
information so we can make abetter and more informed
decision, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, oh, 100%.
And do you think that I feellike you know I always tell my
coaching students like this islike another tool in your
self-awareness tool belt, right,like there's nothing, I don't
think there's anything bad thatcomes from.
Yeah, I think you can be alittle too self-aware, like I'm
probably that, but you know itcan lead you down that path.
It can.
It can help open these doorsfor you where you're like, oh,
okay, without judgment, ideally,you know above.
(38:52):
Oh, that's interesting.
So one of the things that Iwill do a lot and I will work
with my students with as wellwhen you notice these things,
instead of like immediately gointo that, why are you doing
that?
That sucks.
Like you said, just go.
Oh, that's interesting.
I wonder what that's about.
You know and like just sort oflike try and repattern some of
that.
But, like, I feel like learningto trust yourself and learning
(39:17):
to trust your intuition first ofall, as women, I feel like we
all sort of like have an innateknowing.
Some people, like you saidbefore, like may have a deeper
sense of that than others, but Ireally do feel like it's a part
of us and so learning how tolike trust that is part of this
self-awareness tool, you know,because so many times we have
(39:40):
been taught to not trust thatinner voice, especially as women
Like yes, override it.
That's a great word because,you know, for one logical reason
or another it doesn't makesense.
But, like you know, we can allfind examples of that, knowing I
100% have had, like, somereally wild moments, and even
(40:01):
you know one of the things thatsticks out.
This is the funniest thing.
I always tell this story my mom.
You know I come from a longline of very, I believe, very
intuitive women.
I'm from the South, my wholefamily is very Catholic, so it's
not like they are doing Wiccancircles or anything like that.
Ok, let me just set the scenehere.
My mom is like she goes tochurch every Sunday, ok.
(40:24):
And when I got pregnant with thetwins, so I already had my
older son and he was very youngand we weren't really planning
on having kids that right backto back, but it just sort of
happened.
And so the morning of myultrasound I had taken a test, I
knew I was pregnant and I wasgoing to get an ultrasound
because I wanted to see how faralong I was and I wanted to have
(40:45):
a water birth this next timeand all this stuff.
So I was going to like abirthing center here in LA and
so I was on the phone with mymom, talking as I do all the
time.
She's like my BFF, and just inthe middle of this conversation,
like we weren't even liketalking, she's like do you have
a feeling that maybe this istwins?
And I was like no, why, whywould you say that to me.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I know we have a young baby already.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm like, why?
Why he's not even two, why, whywould you say that to me?
And um, she's like yeah, Idon't know, I just I just have
this feeling.
And right then I knew I'm like,well, it's twins, because my
mom doesn't just say stuff likethat, like when it's very
interesting.
So, yeah, sure enough, we'redoing the.
And I tell this to my husbandand he's like, ha ha, ha ha, you
(41:28):
know, he sort of like laughs itoff.
I'm like, no, you don't, youdon't get it Like I think that
this is a thing.
Yep, sure enough, they're doingthe ultrasound.
And the doctor returns to usand goes are there twins in your
family?
And my husband was just likeare you freaking, kidding me
right now?
So stuff like that.
It's like you know, there arethings that you can't explain or
you don't want to explain orwhatever.
And I have a lot of likesynchronicities and deja vus and
(41:50):
I love like the whole Carl Jungthing with synchronicity too on
a side.
But anyway, all that to say, Ifeel like when you embrace it
and you sort of like lean intothat a little bit, it can lead
you to some really coolintrospective places, I think.
So I would love for you toshare your own.
Like you said, you are a littlewoo, right.
(42:10):
So what are some personalpractices or mindset things that
you do that help you when youfeel like you're slipping into
old patterns?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
So, first of all, like we talked about, the
biggest piece is recognizingwhat those patterns are, because
sometimes, I swear to God, I'llrun into things that are like,
like just the other day, we hada task rabbit come to our house
and they did a terrible job andI felt really bad about giving
them not five stars.
And I know you might be likeKatie, where is this going?
But that's a pattern of minewhere, like I, it's like people
(42:38):
pleasing behavior, where, like I, feel bad acknowledging that
they did a bad job.
I don't know why that is, Idon't want to hurt their
feelings.
This guy kind of lookedgrandpa-ish and I was like, oh,
he kind of reminds me of my papaand that makes me kind of sad.
What, like these are not thesame thing, you know, and I do
stuff like that, and so I saythat to say that, like, when
we're trying to recognize thesepatterns, do it with curiosity.
(43:00):
I am still discovering new waysthat I act that I'm like, oh my
God, this is everywhere in mylife.
Annoyed, I'm annoyed, oh right.
So with curiosity, not judgment, and when I feel it happening,
the best thing again, hold on tothat curiosity, because the
best thing that I can do formyself, and maybe it's just
because I'm a therapist, butI've always been a big journaler
(43:21):
, a diary keeper.
Now, not everybody likes towrite.
You can do video diaries, youcan just talk to yourself while
you walk along or take some timeand take a bath and just think
on it.
It doesn't have to be writing.
But the one thing that I willtell you and I'm sure any
therapist would say this youhave all the answers.
I know you don't think you do,but you have them all.
(43:41):
Talking about that intuitivenature, we know ourselves, you
know yourself really well.
We just often have certainparts that are exiled.
I don't like that about me.
It doesn't exist.
If I pretend it doesn't exist,it's not there.
But when we have this pull,this internal pull, we're like
oh my God, I'm wanting to pullaway again and be passive,
aggressive.
Or oh my God, I'm dating thesame type of person again.
(44:06):
Or oh my God, I'm making thesame mistake in business.
Why am I here again?
And we can have this, like wejump to that judgment, like
you'd said, like why am I doingthis, when you feel that,
instead of jumping to thejudgment, think what's going on.
Why do I think I'm doing thisWith the curiosity, like, for
example, when I want to pullaway instead of communicate.
(44:27):
I'm like what am I afraid isgoing to happen if I do
communicate?
What?
That he won't be able to meetmy needs, then what would that
mean?
And in therapy we call thisdownward arrow questioning.
It's a cognitive behavioraltool and it's essentially of the
like if so, then what?
So?
Like if I am not good at my job, then what?
(44:49):
Well, then I'll be poor, I'lllose my job.
It's going to be terrible.
They're going to fire me.
Okay, so they fire you.
Then what?
Well, then I have to go lookingfor another job.
And I know this sounds reallysimple.
And you're like these are easyquestions to answer.
It's going to get hard.
(45:11):
Yeah, real quick.
About five, six, maybe sevenquestions in.
You start running into thingslike because I'm not good enough
, or because I don't deserve tobe happy, or whatever.
And in this process you learnthe why behind the tug.
Right, for me it gets down tolike I have to hustle to earn my
worth, like it's somethingabout like I'm not worthy, right
(45:32):
, if I know that then.
And you're like okay, well, nowI just have this like horrible
realization.
Well, but that tells you whatyou need to work on.
So, then, my work has to be inself-worth, which means and this
is going to be annoying to somepeople, but that means for me,
it's annoying to me I have totalk more kindly to myself and I
have to recognize when I don'tor when I allow other people to
(45:56):
not.
And I know that's again like asimplistic example, but it's
putting in that work withyourself where, instead of
jumping to the judge, let's jumpto curiosity, be a detective,
ask yourself a bunch ofquestions.
I pose so many questions in myjournal about, like, why did I
say it that way?
Why am I so bent out of shapeabout this?
(46:16):
This seems like an overreactionInteresting because
overreactions aren't bad.
They're little indicators thatlike there's more going on.
Why did I find that comment sohurtful?
Oh, maybe because I kind ofbelieve it myself, right?
So it's just being a littlemore curious about stuff instead
of jumping to judge and lettingyour intuition guide the way in
(46:38):
that Like, maybe I need to takea little beat on this, maybe I
am a little more emotional today.
You know, again, it's just likelistening to your body,
listening to how you feel,instead of disconnecting.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, that's the good piece of it right there is.
If you can manage to do thatand just get curious and
investigate as opposed to justchecking out, that's a huge win.
Just that right there.
So you know, give yourself somegrace too.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And avoidance is very normal too, like if you're like
wow, I just tapped out anddidn't even realize Sometimes
you need to.
Yes, it can be too much, right?
We all have our own capacity,depending on the day right
Hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
How are we doing?
We might want to check out, andI get it, but just promise
yourself that you'll try to holdon for 10 more seconds next
time.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, for sure, I call it the anxiety highway.
Like it's similar to what youwere talking about as far as
like, well, okay, if thathappens, then what.
And if oh, okay, if thathappens, then what?
That's one of my practices fordealing with anxiety.
Because, like for me and Ididn't learn this until years of
therapy and I was probably inmy 30s and I do believe, like my
(47:48):
hormones had a lot to do withmy anxiety, just as a side note
but I always just ran from itright, like because when it's
big and it's scary, you don'twant it to happen.
And then with, like panicattacks, you really don't want
that to happen Because, like youknow, I've got three kids.
Like what happens if I have apanic attack in the middle of
the store?
Like I won't be able to, youknow that sort of thing.
So I kind of lived with like alot of that for a while and then
(48:09):
I'm pretty good about just likeshutting things off, like when.
I want to compartmentalize.
You are dead to me, likeliterally I can be like and
we're done, but I mean it'llalways come, it'll come back,
but in the moment I'm able to dothat Right.
So, like, again, what I sort oflike had to realize is that if
(48:32):
I just turn around and look atit, this big, scary monster of
anxiety, if I just look at itand I go, okay, well, what would
happen if that happened?
What would happen if I had apanic attack right here in the
store?
Well, people would maybe thinkI was crazy, and then what would
you know what I mean?
Like I would allow myself tolike go down that anxiety
highway because really, at theend of the day, there's always a
solution, there's always likesomething it's not as bad as I
(48:56):
am, or my anxiety is creating itto be at that moment.
And so, anyway, if anyone, youknow, is thinking about that, it
helps.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
It's awesome that you've created that, though,
because in CBT we call that likethe playing it out the worst
case scenario, and you always goto worst case first because
your brain already wants to dothat.
So play it out what's the worstthat can happen, and then
what's the best case?
Rose color glasses Probably not, you know very likely.
And then what's the most likelycolor glasses Probably not, you
know very likely.
And then what's the most likelyand it sounds silly, but that
(49:28):
practice helps.
You see, like, oh, I guess I'dbe okay.
Yeah, and that's a big shiftversus oh, my God, I'm freaking
out, because then, if you worryabout having a panic attack,
that makes it more likely thatyou will, which is such an
annoying piece of anxiety.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
It's like, ah, so yeah such the annoying piece of
anxiety.
It's like, ah, so yeah, totallyOkay, I can talk about this
stuff with you like all day.
We could probably have like athree hour podcast.
But let's go ahead and wrap up,because we've already talked
about so many good things.
We've really, really outlinedsome really helpful tips too for
the listeners.
But I really do want to chatjust briefly about your book.
Like let us know you know it isabout what we have been talking
(50:04):
about but kind of give us alittle bit more insight about
the book when it's coming.
I'll list all of this in theshow notes and then how people
can like find you and all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah.
So my book why Do I Keep Doingthis is coming out December 9th
and it's honestly all about myjourney with control, or the
illusion of control.
So I walk you through my ownhistory of being in therapy
since I was 15 and what I'velearned and what I'm still
learning.
I think the difference of thisbook from my other books is that
it's kind of a come along withme type of book versus a let me
(50:36):
teach you this.
And there are some teachingmoments, like some of the stuff
I shared today.
I share in the book and there'sother tidbits at the end of
each chapter to get you thinking, get you asking yourself those
questions.
But it's probably my mostpersonal book and I'm very
excited.
You can find it on Amazon,Barnes, Noble, your local
bookstore wherever books aresold.
It's called why Do I Keep Doingthis.
It's very pretty and I'mexcited about her.
(50:57):
So cute To put it into theworld.
Yeah, and thank you so much forhaving me.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, of course, thank you for being here Again,
like I know that this is goingto be a really, really helpful
conversation and the book soundsamazing, so I will definitely
put that info for people so thatthey can maybe pre-order.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, pre-orders really help authors.
It tells us not only where todo book tours and stuff, but
also that's how people becomebestsellers.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, absolutely All right, awesome, Thank you so
much for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Okay, wow, right, that was areally awesome, powerful
conversation with Katie.
I want to leave you with a fewof my own takeaways as well, and
some tools that you can useright now if you're feeling
stuck.
So, first, that awareness iseverything right, instead of
(51:39):
beating yourself up or repeatingthe same loop, just notice it.
Awareness, without judgment, isthe very first step towards
change.
Second, get really curiousabout the underneath.
Okay, so ask yourself what shewas talking about.
What is this behavior doing forme?
What is this about?
What safety or comfort is itgiving me?
(52:01):
And when you name the need, youopen the door to finding
healthier ways to meet it.
Third, support your nervoussystem.
When you're stuck, it's usuallybecause your body doesn't feel
safe enough either to trysomething new.
So take a few deep breaths, boxbreathing, walk outside,
putting your hand over yourheart, reminding yourself that
(52:23):
you're okay, all is well.
All of these little, smallresets can shift everything.
She had some really good tipsfor us in this episode.
And fourth, focus on a microshift.
Okay.
So, instead of trying tooverhaul your entire life in one
day, which is what we tend towant to do pick one small action
that feels aligned and doabletoday.
(52:44):
So tiny steps really compoundover time and they build trust
with yourself over time.
And that's really the finalpoint.
It's about that self-trust, notself-force.
The more you can show your bodyand your mind that you're safe,
that you're capable and that youdon't have to repeat the same
old patterns, the easier it willbecome to step into a new one.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're capable and that
(53:04):
you don't have to repeat thesame old patterns, the easier it
will become to step into a newone.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're in that stuck
place, take a breath, take onesmall step and remind yourself
that you're not broken.
There's nothing wrong here.
You're just running an oldprogram and you have the power
to write a new one.
And if you are a creativebusiness owner and you want
someone to help you walk throughthat, reach out.
(53:25):
I do have a couple of spots openfor one-on-one coaching at the
moment.
Definitely check out Katie'sbook.
All of the info is in the shownotes.
I know y'all are going to get alot out of this episode and I'd
love to hear your feedback.
Hit me up on Instagram at ReneeBowen If you have that feedback
for me, or you can go ahead andleave us a review or a rating.
Those are so appreciated.
(53:50):
You can do that atratethispodcastcom slash.
Renee Bowen.
Okay, you guys have a greatrest of your week.
Love you, bye.
Hey, hey, just popping in for a quick second to
remind you guys of the amazingAI opportunities that I have
going on for you guys this month.
Okay, so I am involved in acouple different bundles, as
well as summits, and they're allAI related, so I wanted to make
sure you have all theinformation.
Obviously, I have also puteverything in the links below in
(00:20):
the show notes, but in case youare confused about what they
are, here's the deal.
First of all, there is one thatis very photographer specific
and that is from Sync, and theyare going to be doing one that
is the AI Summit forPhotographers.
So I have contributed to thatas well, and it's an amazing
bundle.
You guys can get it for free ifyou want to watch it live, or
(00:41):
you can upgrade so that you canwatch the replays.
This is a fantastic one.
You guys definitely want to getinvolved in this if you're a
photographer.
And then there's also the HerAI Summit, which is absolutely
incredible, because this is allabout female energy in the AI
space, because we need morewomen in the AI and tech space.
So the women who are puttingthis on are phenomenal.
(01:03):
I'm super honored to be invitedto be a part of this one as
well, and there's a presentationfor you guys to watch there as
well.
That link is below.
You guys are going to love this.
There's some really interestingout of the box ways that you
probably haven't even thought touse AI, so definitely check
that out.
And then there's also a bundle.
This is free.
(01:24):
You just have to sign up withyour email.
It's called the Ease andAlignment AI Bundle and it is
fantastic.
So you're going to get a bunchof free resources in this one
and I highly recommend you checkthese out.
Like I said, the links arebelow for you in the show notes.
Let's get back to the show.
Welcome to Tried and True withAdash and Wu, where we blend
rock solid tips with a littlebit of magic.
(01:44):
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here, so are
you ready to get inspired andhave some fun?
Let's dive in.
Hi friends, welcome back totried and true with the Dash of
(02:06):
Woo.
I'm your host, renee Bowen.
Today's conversation is one thatI know many of you are going to
resonate with, because we'rediving into the patterns that
keep us stuck.
So if you have ever caughtyourself thinking, why do I just
keep doing this, whether that'sin your relationships, your
business or just sort of how youshow up in the world, you're
(02:27):
not alone.
We all have these loops that werepeat, not because they're
good for us, but because they'refamiliar.
So you've heard me talk aboutthat a lot, and breaking free
from them takes more than justwillpower.
It takes awareness, nervoussystem support and a whole lot
of self-trust.
My guest today is someone whohas been leading that
conversation around mentalhealth for over a decade.
(02:48):
Katie Morton is a licensedmarriage and family therapist, a
best-selling author and apowerhouse voice in the mental
health space, with a YouTubechannel that's reached millions.
Her new book why Do I KeepDoing?
This is all about how our earlyconditioning and survival
strategies show up in adulthoodand how we can finally shift
(03:08):
them.
So what I really love aboutKatie's work is that she blends
the clinical with the intuitive.
She helps us see not just whatwe're doing, but why we're doing
it, and that opens the door forreal change.
This conversation is going togive you some insight into why
you stay stuck and also how tobegin finding your way out and
(03:30):
stick around till the end,because, after my chat with
Katie, I'm going to be sharingsome of my own takeaways and
some practical tools that youcan use right away to create
movement if you're feeling stuckin your own life and business.
So let's dive in.
Here's my conversation withKatie Morton.
Katie, thanks so much for beinghere.
I'm really excited about thisconversation because I talk
(03:52):
about some of the things thatwe're going to talk about a lot,
but you are like the pro inthis field.
I mean, you've been doing thiswork for well over a decade,
reaching millions of people withvideos and books and talks, and
so I just kind of want to startreally quickly at the beginning
, what sort of drew you to focusso deeply on mental health, but
(04:13):
specifically on the patternsthat keep people stuck?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
In general, I was drawn topsychology and being a therapist
because I love people and, forlack of a better explanation, I
get really bored, like I haveworked a lot of jobs and after a
while it's just kind of thesame old shtick every day.
But therapy's not like that,because people are different and
(04:37):
lives change and situationsadjust and we have to manage,
and I find that it's the mostfulfilling work I've ever done.
I also, as a kid, love beinglike the secret keeper you know,
and like knowing the dirtydeets, but also taking pride in
the fact that I wouldn't tellanybody you know, and so that's
kind of what started it.
And then, especially when itgets into what we're going to
(04:59):
talk about today, like patternsthat keep us stuck.
I honestly was drawn to thisbecause I struggle.
I think everybody struggles andif any therapist or mental
health professional tells youthey don't, they're lying,
because we're human and we allhave these propensities for
behaving in certain ways.
A lot of it comes fromchildhood.
It can also come from otherexperiences we've had that we're
drawing from, and I just reallyfelt like it was something that
(05:22):
I not only wanted to takepeople along on my journey.
But I also just wanted tonormalize the fact that we all
have things we do that we wishwe would stop doing.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Totally yeah.
Now, I was kind of the same way.
Right, I have a bachelor's inpsychology.
I never went through it.
It was my intention to go andget that master's and to be a
therapist and then life justtook a big detour.
But that was sort of like.
You know my own stuff too.
I was.
I was the anxious kid.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We didn't know it was that we didn't talk about it
like we do now, like when I grewup, I'm like not everybody has
like a racing heart for noreason, right?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I just thought everybody was like that, because
how would I not, you know, likethat's just our own experience,
right.
And I remember kind of havingboth of those feelings like does
everybody feel like this?
And also I feel like I might bethe only one Right.
And so I think part of me justlike seeking fellow you know
people who got it and then I inhigh school, we actually had a
(06:17):
psychology class in high schoolwhich was kind of progressive,
for me back in the day and itjust started when I was in high
school, like I think I was oneof the first classes to do it
and I was like this is so cool.
Yes, yeah.
So same thing for me and I waslike, oh, I dig this, I think I
could do this, so that's cool.
I love hearing about how peopleare drawn to it because you do
you have to love people to likereally want to do what you do.
(06:38):
And so, okay, you've saidbefore that these patterns, you
know, of keeping people stuck,they're not random, they're
survival strategies a lot of thetimes right.
And so, like, let's kind of diginto that a little bit and
maybe even if you could share astory or an example of like what
that could look like, because Iknow you've seen and heard a
lot and experienced a lot of ityourself.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, there's a ton of directions we can take this
in.
I'll just offer one that I talkabout in my book, specifically
about, like perfectionism.
So I struggle a lot with peoplepleasing perfectionism, trying
to make myself smaller.
There's a ton of things wecould get into all those things,
but perfectionism in particular.
I was able, through my owntherapy, to connect it directly
(07:21):
to my relationship with my dad.
Okay, and so I'm going to kindof walk you through so you can
see how your past can dictateyour present and your future if
we don't recognize it'shappening.
So my dad, growing up great dadloved being a father, but a big
piece of what he thought hisrole was was to earn money for
the family, which meant heworked away from home a lot, and
I thought in my little kidbrain that he would be able to
(07:44):
show up for my choir concert orfor my sports event, like my
softball game or my soccer gameor whatever, or be there for me
more.
If I was better, like if I didbetter, then that would mean he
could show up, because he keepssaying he's going to show up and
then he ends up having to flyto, like Alabama or, you know,
alaska or wherever.
So, as a result of my dadworking away from home and me
(08:06):
not really understanding the whyand I don't know if it's
because nobody talked to meabout it or what my family
wasn't the most communicative,you know, like most of ours it's
just like a newer thing.
But I tried to make sense of itthe best I could and I thought
it was because I wasn't astraight A student.
I wasn't a straight-A student,I wasn't the first chair in band
, I wasn't getting all of thesolos and choir you try to chalk
(08:30):
it up to these things.
I wasn't on the varsity teamyet I thought that if I did that
then I would get him to bearound me more.
And because of that I take thatinto, because I didn't
recognize this.
I took it into teenage years,you know, up into college and my
20s and even, honestly, into myearly 30s, of just thinking
that if I didn't do somethingperfectly, then it wasn't good
(08:54):
enough, and then that meant thatI wasn't going to be worthy of
love, I wasn't going to beworthy of attention, and so I
know that might be like asimplistic explanation, but
things like that are so common.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, they really, really are.
And it's kind of interesting tome because, I mean, it's one of
the reasons why I went back andgot certified in some things
when I started coachingentrepreneurs, because they were
coming to me for businesscoaching.
You know like, oh, how did youdo this?
How are you making money?
And I quickly realized, okay,there's nothing I could teach
(09:27):
you that you're going toactually follow through on if
you don't, sort of like, go backand fix this other thing.
But I'm not a therapist, so Ican't, like you know, do that
part with you.
And a lot of my coaching clientsdo have therapists too I will
just mention that which is greatbecause I think that they can
work really well together, right, because, like, a coach can
challenge you in different ways,and I think that there's a
(09:48):
beautiful dance that happenswhen I work with someone who has
a therapist.
I love, love, love it.
But yeah, for me that's a greatexample, because that
perfectionism, especially withfemale creatives, is legit, a
running theme like in some wayor another, and it's a great
example too, I think, of likethat was your experience with it
(10:10):
, right, and that's how it sortof played out.
But someone else could come tome and I even have the same
thing, right, but it's becauseof a different reason.
And when you dig deeper, right,that's just kind of like what
it's about.
It's like noticing where that'scoming from, and this other
piece of it is like being ableto access that information
(10:33):
without it continuing to stir itup and trigger you and keep you
in this like fight or flight.
So that's sort of like thatpiece that I think is so
important.
It's like, yeah, okay, that'swhere it comes from, but okay,
now what?
Right, and that's definitelysomething that you work with
people in therapy, you know for.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, because knowing is it's a huge.
I feel like it's more than halfthe battle, because we can't
change what we don't understand,right, but that doesn't really
get me through.
It doesn't actually change it,but it allows me to see like, oh
, okay, for me it comes fromthis belief that, like, somehow
perfectionism equals attentionand love.
(11:09):
And then essentially a lot ofmy therapy work has been like
disproving that, like untanglingthat, so I can see.
It's like I always tell mypatients and my viewers I'm like
sometimes you have to checkyour facts and thoughts are not
facts, and having a thoughtmultiple times for years and
years doesn't make it a fact.
And so you have to take alittle time with yourself to be
like hey, like when I catchmyself thinking like right now
(11:32):
I'm sitting on something Ishould turn in, but I keep
reading it through and I'm like,why are you doing this?
Like you know, are you, do youfeel like you're not good enough
?
Is that what this is about?
Are you afraid're gonna failand then that's gonna mean
something else?
You know you have to kind ofchallenge yourself and push
yourself and be like just do it.
You know, 80 is enough.
Or you know, um?
(11:52):
One of my favorite quotes and Imentioned in my book comes from
the workbook the artist's way,yes, which I love.
If somebody, if you haven'tdone it, do with it's amazing,
it's a lot of work, god,life-changing.
One of the quotes in there.
She says perfectionism.
I always thought was seekingout the best in things, but it
was actually me looking for theworst 100%.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Oh my God, like I have chills, I know, and I've
done the Artist's Way and I'veread it.
And it's so interesting becausemy younger son, who just
graduated from music college,and he just we had given him
that book years ago, rightProbably when he was like 18.
He wasn't ready yet.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, I mean that's awesome to even have.
I mean I did it for the firsttime at like 36.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, we were that.
I mean, I'm married to an actor, a writer, I'm married to
probably the most creativeperson on earth and I think I'm
kind of like somewhere, half Ihave one foot in, one foot out,
like I'm creative but I'm alsoreally logical, and so we were
very early adopters of all ofthat.
So our kids kind of grew uparound all of that, you know,
honestly, and we talked about it.
But he in particular, he is atrue artist and you know, now
(13:01):
just graduating, and he's likein the what if?
Period of his time, and it wasfunny because he called me and
he was like, hey, can you sendme that book Because I think I'm
ready for it now?
And I was like, oh my God, he'sasking for it.
It's amazing.
So, anyway, just like a littleside note about the artist way,
like if you haven't done it andyou are an artist or creative or
anyone, like it's just aphenomenal and it is a lot, you
(13:22):
have to sort of devote some timeto it.
But all that to say, it'sdefinitely so true that you're
looking to prove what youbelieve right, like somewhere
along the line you believe thatyou aren't perfect or whatever,
and so it's like thatunconscious trigger of looking
for proof of that, because we'regoing to find proof of what
(13:42):
we're looking for.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, and that's like the I love, that's a really
important piece is likeconfirmation bias and people
don't talk enough about it.
How think of like the fact thatif you see that there's this
new car out on the market andyou see a commercial for it,
then suddenly you see iteverywhere and you're like, have
I?
Just?
Why am I seeing this everywhere?
Because you know of it now andit has more of a tie in your
(14:06):
brain, and so, instead of itdriving by and you're not even
paying attention, now you'relike oh, look at that car.
Oh, your brain loves patterns,it loves to look for things that
prove things it already knows.
Right, learning new information?
Challenging ourselves is hardand it's unknown and our brain
doesn't like that.
It's a little bit scary.
We don't really know what'sgoing to happen, and so our
(14:28):
brain goes looking for thethings that we quote, unquote,
already know, for more proofthat it's true.
And so, in order to untanglethese things, we have to like
force our brain out and to belike no, no, no, I'm going to
look like.
I always tell my patients andmy viewers alike I'm like you
know, you have to go out and belike what is an alternative to
(14:51):
this story right, it's almostlike I call it being a detective
about it.
We think of these.
Okay, this person I love likecrime, so I'm like this person
was murdered.
They don't just automaticallylike it was the boyfriend.
They're like it could be theboyfriend.
It could also maybe be theneighbor.
It could also like.
I need you to do that work.
I need you to say this could behappening because I'm no good,
(15:12):
or this could be happeningbecause this person is having a
tough day.
That's why they were kind of anasshole.
This person acted this way.
You know it had nothing to dowith me.
I.
I need you to challenge andpush your brain to come up with
some other alternatives.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Totally.
And when I learned about thereticular activating system,
which is basically kind of whatwe're talking about here, is
that filter in our brain, itsort of changed my life.
I was like, oh okay, that'swhat they mean by that, because,
like, it really is a system ofour brain, like you said, like
it loves patterns and it's goingto look for proof, and so if
you believe that no one's goingto pay these prices or whatever,
(15:46):
because it's going to show upin a lot of different ways.
You know, like, not just likein your personal life, it'll
show up in your business,especially if you were a solo
business owner.
Like 100% it's going to show up.
And that's for me, that's whenmy money stuff started showing
up, because I grew up I was,like you know, my parents were
divorced when I was seven and ahalf, like seven basically, and
(16:07):
I didn't really have arelationship, close relationship
, with my dad.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So you can imagine that there was a lot of stuff
that went.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
but God bless my mom Like she put me in therapy when
I think I was like 17.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
My mom at 15 put me in.
I'm forever grateful.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Same, because, girl, she must have seen like this is
an anxious child, you know whatI mean.
Like I really didn't know, Ididn't have the words for that
then, and so a lot of that wasplayed out.
But all that to say like Ididn't really even know, I had
issues with like asking for asale or have money stories or
any of that stuff, like beliefsabout money.
I didn't even think about itreally in those terms until I
(16:43):
had to go out there and startasking people to pay me for work
that I did and that was like awhole different story.
And that's when I realized Ihad some worth.
Things tied to like why my dadwasn't there and not paying
child, all this stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Like being a woman and asking like there's so many
layers, so many layers, yeah,and so I had to sit with it too,
and that was the piece of.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It is like that's what the gift of therapy is that
a good therapist will walk youthrough that and you will learn
to sit with it and access itwhere it's not going to kill you
, it's not going to.
You know what I mean.
Like there is that place and sohuge believer and proponent of
therapy for so many reasons.
But okay, so let's talk alittle bit about in your new
book.
I love this whole topic.
(17:31):
Why do I keep doing?
This is the name of the book,which means hello, it's perfect.
Like, why do I keep doing this?
You explain why familiardoesn't always mean healthy and
so why do we cling to what weknow, even when it's painful?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Because, just, it's a great segue because of what
we're talking about.
Our brain loves patterns, itloves predictability and I know
you're like.
So what does that mean?
Why would it want unhealthy,why would it want painful, why
would it want to put me inanother hurtful or abusive
situation?
Because it already knows it,because it knows what that means
, how it's going to feel, thatwe can survive it, because we
(18:09):
already have, and it kind oflike, has walked through all the
steps.
So when we try to do somethingdifferent, our brain's like whoa
, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I don't know these steps, Idon't know the outcome.
That unknown, that newdirection you want to take, this
is scary, right, it's notpredictable.
I can't already tell you andplan and prepare.
(18:30):
It feels very unknown.
And so, because our brain lovespatterns and that's not a
pattern yet, it's a brand newthing it would prefer you go
back to what you already know,which is why breaking out of I
call it the blueprint, like whenwe're born and, like you said,
(18:50):
like not having your dad around,like these are ways that our
blueprint is being drawn, andeach of us has strengths in our
blueprint and weaknesses in ourblueprint, but in order to
redraw it.
We have to take a gamble.
I'm going to make this roomthis big.
Do I know if it really needs tobe that big?
I don't, but I'm going to do itbecause I know that I can't go
back to this other way.
I have to erase that and I haveto redraw right, and so we're
just taking chances.
(19:10):
And so that's really why newand novel, as healthy and as
wonderful and as hopeful as itcan be, can feel terrifying and
be the hardest thing for you todo.
It's almost like a good examplefor me is that I don't.
I really hate conflict,surprise, surprise.
And so when I was having anissue with my husband and we've
(19:32):
been together, god, for like Idon't know 16, 17 years and I,
instead of leaning in andtelling him like hey, what you
said really hurt my feelings, orI wish you would have addressed
me this way or that way, I liketo run away.
I'm like my silence will speakvolumes.
It's like kind of passive,aggressive, but also just like I
don't know how to communicatemy needs.
(19:53):
And I've been in therapy sinceI was 15.
I'm 40.
Like I should get my shittogether right, I'm also a
therapist, but just because weknow better doesn't mean we
always do better.
But my therapist had told me,when you sense that runaway,
that pull out or puffer fishing,like that's what I call it like
stick spines out, she goes.
I want you to do somethingreally uncomfortable.
I want you to do oppositeaction.
(20:13):
I want you to lean in to himand I want you to say, hey, that
hurt my feelings and I don'treally know how to deal with it.
She's like you don't have tohave a resolution, you don't
have to have an answer.
Lean in Now when I tell you forme to talk to him.
I love my husband, he's a greatman.
(20:33):
I was so nervous.
I'm like, walking up to him inhis office, I'm like, okay,
we're going to do this, we cando this, we can do this.
We can say, hey, the way yousaid that just hurt my feeling.
He was like, oh my God, Ididn't know, I'm so sorry.
And then he, yeah, in a matterof I would have like ruminated
on that for days, resolved in afew seconds.
(20:55):
But to say that it wasn't hardand that it wasn't against every
fiber of my being would be alie.
And so when you're makingdifficult changes, just know
that that discomfort, that theanxiety, the sweaty palms and
the shaky voice is all part ofthe process and that you'll get
better and it will feel morecomfortable because, just like
(21:15):
we said, our brain lovespatterns.
It loves to know how thingsturn out.
So now my brain's like oh, Ican say stuff to him and it's
not terrible.
Exactly, I just opened up awhole new part of my blueprint.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, and you're creating all those new neural
pathways that we know actuallyis a thing with the neuroscience
.
Like every time you do that,that groove will get deeper and
then you'll get to.
It'll become more of thatpattern and of a familiar
feeling, but in a good way thistime, and so you're literally
rewiring your brain, which is sofun and awesome that we can do
(21:47):
that.
But it's so interesting becauseI have the same thing, like it
took me again, like I've been intherapy for so long, I have a
degree in it, like I believe init, and yet it's like someone is
cutting me open withoutanesthesia for me to actually
say those words.
It was like what the heck isgoing on here, you know and it
doesn't take a rocket scientistto figure out why I would have
(22:09):
those issues and be like it'spretty clear on paper, but it,
you know, you get so close to it.
Everything is like right here,and when you're in that fight or
flight it's really hard to go.
Oh okay, there's something elsegoing on here and I am safe.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I am safe in this place.
And fight and fight or flight.
It helps me always knowneuroscience a little bit to get
a little nerdy with it that,like when our fight flight is
triggered, that means ouramygdala is firing, our limbic
system shooting messages, andwhat that does is it prioritizes
safety and essentially,security for us, and there's no
(22:45):
here's the big kicker there's noprefrontal cortex action.
It takes it offline, and that'simportant to know, because your
prefrontal cortex is organizedthought, planning and
preparation and also language, alot of organized language.
So of course it's like it'shard for me to communicate.
My mind goes blank when I go totalk about something I'm
(23:06):
stressed about right and I can'tput in the steps to make that
happen.
It's hard and so your brain'skind of fighting against you a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I always say, when that happens, all the blood will
rush to your limbs.
So you get fast, but you getdumb because it literally brings
it out of everything else.
You're not thinking in a logical, conscious way.
You are literally just runningon your programming at that
point.
And if you've got someprogramming which all of us do,
it just depends on, like, whatlevel of it is right, like so
(23:38):
big T or little t, you know, andso it can be a lot.
But I find I want to touch onthis really quickly before we
kind of go further on that,because what I think is really
very interesting because you hadsaid before about how anything
that is new or novelty right isgoing to trigger those responses
in us, and I just think it's sofunny, it's like a cruel joke.
(24:02):
I think that so many of uscreatives have these spicy,
neurodivergent brains and wecrave the new, we want something
new, we want to like we havelike 50 million ideas and we
want to follow them and we havelike it's exciting, and then we
start doing it.
We're like oh crap, I do notthink this is for me, so like I
(24:23):
want to kind of like dig intoyour therapist brain on that a
little bit.
Like so, and also because Imean I kind of approach it too
from like the metaphysical,where it's like okay, I really
believe that if you were drawnto something, it's meant for you
and your higher self is likesort of popping in and saying,
okay, no, this is good for youand that there are no mistakes.
Right, like, okay, if you'redrawn to it, there's a reason
(24:43):
why, and all of those triggerscontain some gold for you if
you're willing to look at it.
But I want to kind of hear yourtake on that.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I mean especially my ADHD patients.
They have the only thingsthey'll purchase in like a
weekend.
They're like I decided I'mgoing to do knitting and I
bought all of this stuff and Ihave all these plans and blah,
blah, blah, and then they do itfor a week and they're like I
decided I hate it.
Totally fair.
I think there's a couple ofthings here.
First of all, we have torecognize our impulsivity.
(25:11):
Everybody has different amounts, different things that cause it
.
One of the best things we canall do, period bar none, is
check in with yourself beforeyou make any major decisions.
You make any major purchases,you decide your next move.
It doesn't mean like to yourpoint, we can't get excited, we
(25:32):
can't journal a little bit aboutthis new idea and this thing we
want to do and what it wouldtake.
That's all great.
That's like giving yourselftime to process, because what
usually ends up happening?
The reason I said check in withyourself is I always talk about
halt, hungry, angry, lonely,tired.
It's a great resiliencecheck-in.
Have I eaten in the last threeto four hours?
(25:53):
How did I sleep last night?
Have I connected with someone?
That I really feel like gets me, you know?
Am I angry about something Ihaven't communicated.
Often those are lingering inthe back.
We don't even recognize it.
Check in with that before youstart taking a leap.
Like you said, there's nothingwrong with having flights of
ideas and you're so excited andI want to try this new thing.
I want to take up knitting.
But we don't have to spend $400on Amazon in one night to do
(26:17):
this thing.
Let's check in.
Hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
How are you doing?
Okay, maybe we journal a littlebit about.
That's what I used to tell oneof my ADHD patients.
By the time she'd journal aboutwhat it was going to take,
she'd already hate it a lot oftimes, and so that would save
(26:38):
her from like jumping in.
So there's that piece.
But then there's also this Icall it like the compassionate
piece where we have to be likebut that child us, that
impulsive, excited, is beautifuland you should care for that
and cultivate that.
But again, that doesn't mean wehave to make huge financial
decisions, change our businessplan and pivot again or
communicate this to anybody.
I think it's enjoying that partof ourselves, like when you
journal about this.
I don't want you to shame orblame, I want to be like.
(27:00):
I'm so excited.
This is so beautiful.
I can imagine myself makingthese quilts that I will put on
the wall and whatever I'm goingto make music, it's going to be
amazing.
Let yourself go down the pathwhile just checking in, because
when we're hungry, angry andlonely, tired, we're way more
impulsive.
We're way more apt to makedecisions that aren't based in
our best interest.
Our prefrontal cortex might notbe online, right, the blood
(27:21):
will be in our limbs.
We're not necessarily who knowsright.
So those are just kind of thethings I think of when I think
of, like, neurodivergence andthe beautiful piece of that that
creates amazing art, because Idon't want to shut down that
pipeline, but you do want tojust be a little bit more
intentional, which I know ishard, because we get excited and
(27:42):
we want to make moves.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
For sure.
I see it in lots of differentways inside of my coaching and
just in my own house.
I like to say like there'sbasically a neurodiversity soup
in my house, you know, likesomebody who's got autism or
ADHD or both or whatever, and solike it's just a lot of
checking in.
I mean, that's honestly I don'tthink I've heard it as that
acronym before, but and which Ilove and I remember, cause my
(28:06):
oldest has autism and it wasprobably one of his therapists
that was talking about that withus, with him when we were
trying to like kind of like dealwith some behaviors when he was
really little, and I rememberthinking I think we definitely
need to be using that more.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
We all do the things I do in the heat of the moment
or when I'm frustrated, you knowyeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Like my husband wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until
he was in his forties, and so Ilook back now you know I'm in
my fifties and he is too, and wewere talking about this the
other day.
It was really, it was reallyfunny because we were having a
good laugh about it now, butit's so crazy to us to like
think about those earlier days,like even just like, with us
(28:51):
being new parents and havingthree kids under the age of two
and, you know, him being anactor, like just having this
really wild life.
I was like can you imagine whatpeople aren't like the outside
looking in, we must've lookedlike absolute chaos, like even
our adult kids will talk aboutthis.
Now they're like, yeah, we usedto take these long, long road
trips we love a good road tripin our minivan and they loved it
(29:13):
.
They still talk about how theyloved it, but like it was chaos,
like it was absolute, likeinsanity, and it wasn't until
our kids got older and they werein our teenage years and I
think that you know we were sortof like, you know everything
was just getting not as crazylet's just say Crazy is not the
right word but chaotic.
Okay, yeah, that we were allstarting to notice I don't think
(29:39):
other people- have familieslike this.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't think.
I think it's just us.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think we're just part, yeah, yeah.
And my daughter says that nowshe's in her grad program and
she's like, yeah, it was a lot,it was a lot in our house and I
was like I know, and I didn'trealize it because I was in it,
and now that I look back I'mlike, yeah, it was, it was.
There was just a lot going onat all times Like someone was
always in that place of like alittle bit of dysregulation, I
(30:03):
think, you know.
And so learning how to regulateyourself, that's that's sort of
a good good segue into thisconversation, I think, because
that all goes hand in hand withwhat we're talking about and
being stuck and sort of likebreaking out of that blueprint.
So I talk a lot about nervoussystem regulation just in
general and on the show at mycoaching, just in my life.
How do our bodies play intopatterns of keeping us stuck as
(30:27):
well, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
The truth is, they have a huge role because, like I
talked about going to talk tomy husband, when I'm like I need
to say something and I don'tlike my palms get sweaty, I feel
shaky, like you're my anxiety,like we can feel not only
mentally could our thoughts feellike they're racing or feel
scrambled, but our bodyexperiences the same upset and
(30:50):
dysregulation.
Right, because they'reconnected.
I hate when people are likeit's mental health or physical
health.
I'm like they are part of thesame unit.
I don't know why we're havingthis conversation, and so just
recognizing how your bodyresponds can be really, really
powerful, because there are aton of different kind of really
basic things I guess you can do,but kind of like neuros, you're
(31:13):
like calming your body down.
They can call them groundingtechniques, you can call them
just neuroscience-backedbehavior techniques, but there
are two that I find to be themost effective.
Number one is temperaturechange.
So if you find yourself feelingincredibly overwhelmed, your
body is responding to I don'tknow.
Let's say, your boss gave yousome feedback you weren't
(31:33):
prepared to hear and you'rehaving a.
You don't want to cry at work,you don't want to yell, so we
sit with it and maybe tears comewithout us even wanting them
and we're like, why am Ifreaking out?
And you're sweating a lot andyou're like, oh my God, oh my
God, go and get.
Like, maybe keep a water bottlein the freezer at work.
If you can, you grab that waterbottle and you put it on the
back of your neck.
Cold is.
When I say temperature change,I mean bring cold into the
(31:56):
picture.
Hot, I guess if you're in areally cold area, hot tea could
work, no-transcript.
(32:21):
The second one, and one that Irecently discovered, probably a
few months ago, is I don't evenknow what I would call it.
I just call it like brain reset, but it's making your brain do
something odd, like, let's say,you're maxed out again at work.
Same situation your boss gaveyou feedback.
I want you, if you write withyour left hand, I want you to
write with your right hand for alittle bit.
Or I want you to and this mightsound a little weird if you
(32:42):
have a little privacy in youroffice, I want you to walk
backwards.
I know this sounds really crazyI want you to tap your head and
rub your stomach, because whatthat does is that autopilot we
kind of talked about, like howyour brain loves those patterns
and it wants to go right intothe old way that we used to
communicate, the old way we usedto engage.
It forces it out of that, itmakes it think, yep, it pulls us
(33:03):
into the prefrontal cortex.
I have to think about this, Ihave to plan this, I have to
like what am I doing?
Even counting backwards,skipping a number like 10 to 8.
It sounds so simple, but itreally tricks your brain and
snaps it out of that.
And so those are just a coupleof things.
I mean we could talk groundingtechniques too.
Yeah, there's so many, truly.
(33:24):
There's a zillion, one that mypatients always have loved over
the years, is counting.
Colors is what we call them.
So in your room, look aroundlike how many things are brown,
how many things are blue, andthat just brings you back into
the present and stops youessentially from freaking out.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
That's a really good tactic that I've used, that I've
taught my kids to use withtheir anxiety, to break out of a
panic attack.
Because when you're in thatplace it's really hard Like you
don't.
It's hard to snap out of it,especially if you're new to
panic attacks, like now.
I'm like a seasoned panicattacker, like you know what I
mean.
Now I'm like, oh, it's just apanic attack, I know how to get
(33:59):
myself out of it.
When I started having like thefirst panic attack, I, my kids,
a couple of my kids have reallybad anxiety too, and so that's
one of the things that I taughtthem early on.
That really, really works.
(34:20):
Like I want you to today justjust see how many purple things
you can find, just in general.
You know, and I love I'm acounter, like that's sort of
like my little OCD thing thatI've got is like a count
everything and I mean like,unconsciously I don't notice
that I'm doing which is reallyhilarious, because I could
barely pass algebra Like it's sofunny.
(34:40):
I'm like, why am I not a mathwizard?
Because, like, literally, Icount everything just
unconsciously and I count bytwos and it's just like an
anxiety thing.
Wasn't until college that Ilearned.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Oh, this is this is one of the OCDs.
Oh yeah, I know I used to spelleverything before I'd say it
and my therapist was like people, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I was like what do you mean?
People don't count on theirteeth.
What are you talking about?
You don't sing with your teethlike in counting twos.
And people were like what areyou?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
How, like how are you functioning right now?
And you're like I'm not.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's actually how I'm functioning.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Just so you know, that's the little thing that I
do.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, exactly yeah no , I love those tips because
they're simple, they're easy,the temperature change for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, 100%, have used that a lot.
So those are good little littlehacks and I tell people, if you
are, if you do struggle withpanic attacks or dissociation,
keep those.
You know those little breakpacks that turn to ice for like
first aid kits.
You can buy them in bulk onAmazon.
I know you might not want likea huge amount, but having 10 or
so like I have one in the car orI have one in my purse, I have
one at work in my desk Like thatmight save you my desk, like
(35:52):
that might save you.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So you know, keep those on hand too.
Yeah, good, good tip, I lovethose.
That's awesome.
I have to go Amazon here I come, okay, so you, you've built a
really unique space, just ingeneral, where you do you merge
the clinical side of therapy andthe science based, you know,
data with a little bit more ofan intuitive awareness, which I
love, and I'm just interested tohear your perspective on that,
(36:16):
why you think that combinationis important in healing.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Well, before we started filming, I was like I
love your podcast, I love alittle bit of woo, because I am
kind of woo-woo and I always usethat term, too, with my
audience.
I'm like I know this is alittle woo-woo to hang with me,
and the truth about it is, firstof all, I've always felt I'm a
very intuitive person and peoplecan think or judge whatever
they want to think or judge.
But I mean, I have a ton ofdifferent examples of like deja
vu that came to fruition and wasa thing and my grandma had it
(36:43):
too and I feel like there's kindof this like we do know now
through new neurologicalresearch that we have more than
our five senses.
I know we talk about the sixthsense, but I don't know if
you've heard more recently.
They're thinking we have likesenses in the like 20s or 30s of
them, and so there's a lot ofdifferent things that I don't
feel like everyone's tapped into.
That's not judgment, like weshould be tapped into all of
(37:04):
them, but I do feel like we needto use all of the resources we
have available to help us bebetter and feel better and be
more in tune with our world.
I think it's really easy thesedays to disconnect and to feel
like you know we're alone insomething, that we don't have
any idea how we're feeling orthinking.
And I'm always encouragingpeople to tap in and I think
(37:28):
that comes along with a littlebit of that woo-woo, like, if
you have an intuition that asituation is bad, get out of
that situation.
If you have a little feelingthat like maybe I should just
journal about this, journalabout this.
Like my specialty is in eatingdisorders.
That's where I started and alot of what I used to run this
group called the Body and SoulGroup and a lot of what I was
trying to help the women in theclinic I worked at recreate was
(37:52):
the connection between you andyour body and like your body
sends signals.
We talked about how your bodyfeels when you start to feel
anxious.
A lot of people that arelistening might have been like
oh my God, that was anxiety.
Oh, that makes sense.
I didn't even connect.
I think if we don't use all thethings we have I know it's like
(38:17):
a long-winded answer of like weneed to use all our resources
so that we can be not only morein tune with ourselves but then
with our world, and I feel likeit makes things just ever so
slightly easier and I feel likethen we're tapped into more
information so we can make abetter and more informed
decision, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, oh, 100%.
And do you think that I feellike you know I always tell my
coaching students like this islike another tool in your
self-awareness tool belt, right,like there's nothing, I don't
think there's anything bad thatcomes from.
Yeah, I think you can be alittle too self-aware, like I'm
probably that, but you know itcan lead you down that path.
It can.
It can help open these doorsfor you where you're like, oh,
okay, without judgment, ideally,you know above.
(38:52):
Oh, that's interesting.
So one of the things that Iwill do a lot and I will work
with my students with as wellwhen you notice these things,
instead of like immediately gointo that, why are you doing
that?
That sucks.
Like you said, just go.
Oh, that's interesting.
I wonder what that's about.
You know and like just sort oflike try and repattern some of
that.
But, like, I feel like learningto trust yourself and learning
(39:17):
to trust your intuition first ofall, as women, I feel like we
all sort of like have an innateknowing.
Some people, like you saidbefore, like may have a deeper
sense of that than others, but Ireally do feel like it's a part
of us and so learning how tolike trust that is part of this
self-awareness tool, you know,because so many times we have
(39:40):
been taught to not trust thatinner voice, especially as women
Like yes, override it.
That's a great word because,you know, for one logical reason
or another it doesn't makesense.
But, like you know, we can allfind examples of that, knowing I
100% have had, like, somereally wild moments, and even
(40:01):
you know one of the things thatsticks out.
This is the funniest thing.
I always tell this story my mom.
You know I come from a longline of very, I believe, very
intuitive women.
I'm from the South, my wholefamily is very Catholic, so it's
not like they are doing Wiccancircles or anything like that.
Ok, let me just set the scenehere.
My mom is like she goes tochurch every Sunday, ok.
(40:24):
And when I got pregnant with thetwins, so I already had my
older son and he was very youngand we weren't really planning
on having kids that right backto back, but it just sort of
happened.
And so the morning of myultrasound I had taken a test, I
knew I was pregnant and I wasgoing to get an ultrasound
because I wanted to see how faralong I was and I wanted to have
(40:45):
a water birth this next timeand all this stuff.
So I was going to like abirthing center here in LA and
so I was on the phone with mymom, talking as I do all the
time.
She's like my BFF, and just inthe middle of this conversation,
like we weren't even liketalking, she's like do you have
a feeling that maybe this istwins?
And I was like no, why, whywould you say that to me.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I know we have a young baby already.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm like, why?
Why he's not even two, why, whywould you say that to me?
And um, she's like yeah, Idon't know, I just I just have
this feeling.
And right then I knew I'm like,well, it's twins, because my
mom doesn't just say stuff likethat, like when it's very
interesting.
So, yeah, sure enough, we'redoing the.
And I tell this to my husbandand he's like, ha ha, ha ha, you
(41:28):
know, he sort of like laughs itoff.
I'm like, no, you don't, youdon't get it Like I think that
this is a thing.
Yep, sure enough, they're doingthe ultrasound.
And the doctor returns to usand goes are there twins in your
family?
And my husband was just likeare you freaking, kidding me
right now?
So stuff like that.
It's like you know, there arethings that you can't explain or
you don't want to explain orwhatever.
And I have a lot of likesynchronicities and deja vus and
(41:50):
I love like the whole Carl Jungthing with synchronicity too on
a side.
But anyway, all that to say, Ifeel like when you embrace it
and you sort of like lean intothat a little bit, it can lead
you to some really coolintrospective places, I think.
So I would love for you toshare your own.
Like you said, you are a littlewoo, right.
(42:10):
So what are some personalpractices or mindset things that
you do that help you when youfeel like you're slipping into
old patterns?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
So, first of all, like we talked about, the
biggest piece is recognizingwhat those patterns are, because
sometimes, I swear to God, I'llrun into things that are like,
like just the other day, we hada task rabbit come to our house
and they did a terrible job andI felt really bad about giving
them not five stars.
And I know you might be likeKatie, where is this going?
But that's a pattern of minewhere, like I, it's like people
(42:38):
pleasing behavior, where, like I, feel bad acknowledging that
they did a bad job.
I don't know why that is, Idon't want to hurt their
feelings.
This guy kind of lookedgrandpa-ish and I was like, oh,
he kind of reminds me of my papaand that makes me kind of sad.
What, like these are not thesame thing, you know, and I do
stuff like that, and so I saythat to say that, like, when
we're trying to recognize thesepatterns, do it with curiosity.
(43:00):
I am still discovering new waysthat I act that I'm like, oh my
God, this is everywhere in mylife.
Annoyed, I'm annoyed, oh right.
So with curiosity, not judgment, and when I feel it happening,
the best thing again, hold on tothat curiosity, because the
best thing that I can do formyself, and maybe it's just
because I'm a therapist, butI've always been a big journaler
(43:21):
, a diary keeper.
Now, not everybody likes towrite.
You can do video diaries, youcan just talk to yourself while
you walk along or take some timeand take a bath and just think
on it.
It doesn't have to be writing.
But the one thing that I willtell you and I'm sure any
therapist would say this youhave all the answers.
I know you don't think you do,but you have them all.
(43:41):
Talking about that intuitivenature, we know ourselves, you
know yourself really well.
We just often have certainparts that are exiled.
I don't like that about me.
It doesn't exist.
If I pretend it doesn't exist,it's not there.
But when we have this pull,this internal pull, we're like
oh my God, I'm wanting to pullaway again and be passive,
aggressive.
Or oh my God, I'm dating thesame type of person again.
(44:06):
Or oh my God, I'm making thesame mistake in business.
Why am I here again?
And we can have this, like wejump to that judgment, like
you'd said, like why am I doingthis, when you feel that,
instead of jumping to thejudgment, think what's going on.
Why do I think I'm doing thisWith the curiosity, like, for
example, when I want to pullaway instead of communicate.
(44:27):
I'm like what am I afraid isgoing to happen if I do
communicate?
What?
That he won't be able to meetmy needs, then what would that
mean?
And in therapy we call thisdownward arrow questioning.
It's a cognitive behavioraltool and it's essentially of the
like if so, then what?
So?
Like if I am not good at my job, then what?
(44:49):
Well, then I'll be poor, I'lllose my job.
It's going to be terrible.
They're going to fire me.
Okay, so they fire you.
Then what?
Well, then I have to go lookingfor another job.
And I know this sounds reallysimple.
And you're like these are easyquestions to answer.
It's going to get hard.
(45:11):
Yeah, real quick.
About five, six, maybe sevenquestions in.
You start running into thingslike because I'm not good enough
, or because I don't deserve tobe happy, or whatever.
And in this process you learnthe why behind the tug.
Right, for me it gets down tolike I have to hustle to earn my
worth, like it's somethingabout like I'm not worthy, right
(45:32):
, if I know that then.
And you're like okay, well, nowI just have this like horrible
realization.
Well, but that tells you whatyou need to work on.
So, then, my work has to be inself-worth, which means and this
is going to be annoying to somepeople, but that means for me,
it's annoying to me I have totalk more kindly to myself and I
have to recognize when I don'tor when I allow other people to
(45:56):
not.
And I know that's again like asimplistic example, but it's
putting in that work withyourself where, instead of
jumping to the judge, let's jumpto curiosity, be a detective,
ask yourself a bunch ofquestions.
I pose so many questions in myjournal about, like, why did I
say it that way?
Why am I so bent out of shapeabout this?
(46:16):
This seems like an overreactionInteresting because
overreactions aren't bad.
They're little indicators thatlike there's more going on.
Why did I find that comment sohurtful?
Oh, maybe because I kind ofbelieve it myself, right?
So it's just being a littlemore curious about stuff instead
of jumping to judge and lettingyour intuition guide the way in
(46:38):
that Like, maybe I need to takea little beat on this, maybe I
am a little more emotional today.
You know, again, it's just likelistening to your body,
listening to how you feel,instead of disconnecting.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, that's the good piece of it right there is.
If you can manage to do thatand just get curious and
investigate as opposed to justchecking out, that's a huge win.
Just that right there.
So you know, give yourself somegrace too.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And avoidance is very normal too, like if you're like
wow, I just tapped out anddidn't even realize Sometimes
you need to.
Yes, it can be too much, right?
We all have our own capacity,depending on the day right
Hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
How are we doing?
We might want to check out, andI get it, but just promise
yourself that you'll try to holdon for 10 more seconds next
time.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, for sure, I call it the anxiety highway.
Like it's similar to what youwere talking about as far as
like, well, okay, if thathappens, then what.
And if oh, okay, if thathappens, then what?
That's one of my practices fordealing with anxiety.
Because, like for me and Ididn't learn this until years of
therapy and I was probably inmy 30s and I do believe, like my
(47:48):
hormones had a lot to do withmy anxiety, just as a side note
but I always just ran from itright, like because when it's
big and it's scary, you don'twant it to happen.
And then with, like panicattacks, you really don't want
that to happen Because, like youknow, I've got three kids.
Like what happens if I have apanic attack in the middle of
the store?
Like I won't be able to, youknow that sort of thing.
So I kind of lived with like alot of that for a while and then
(48:09):
I'm pretty good about just likeshutting things off, like when.
I want to compartmentalize.
You are dead to me, likeliterally I can be like and
we're done, but I mean it'llalways come, it'll come back,
but in the moment I'm able to dothat Right.
So, like, again, what I sort oflike had to realize is that if
(48:32):
I just turn around and look atit, this big, scary monster of
anxiety, if I just look at itand I go, okay, well, what would
happen if that happened?
What would happen if I had apanic attack right here in the
store?
Well, people would maybe thinkI was crazy, and then what would
you know what I mean?
Like I would allow myself tolike go down that anxiety
highway because really, at theend of the day, there's always a
solution, there's always likesomething it's not as bad as I
(48:56):
am, or my anxiety is creating itto be at that moment.
And so, anyway, if anyone, youknow, is thinking about that, it
helps.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
It's awesome that you've created that, though,
because in CBT we call that likethe playing it out the worst
case scenario, and you always goto worst case first because
your brain already wants to dothat.
So play it out what's the worstthat can happen, and then
what's the best case?
Rose color glasses Probably not, you know very likely.
And then what's the most likelycolor glasses Probably not, you
know very likely.
And then what's the most likelyand it sounds silly, but that
(49:28):
practice helps.
You see, like, oh, I guess I'dbe okay.
Yeah, and that's a big shiftversus oh, my God, I'm freaking
out, because then, if you worryabout having a panic attack,
that makes it more likely thatyou will, which is such an
annoying piece of anxiety.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
It's like, ah, so yeah such the annoying piece of
anxiety.
It's like, ah, so yeah, totallyOkay, I can talk about this
stuff with you like all day.
We could probably have like athree hour podcast.
But let's go ahead and wrap up,because we've already talked
about so many good things.
We've really, really outlinedsome really helpful tips too for
the listeners.
But I really do want to chatjust briefly about your book.
Like let us know you know it isabout what we have been talking
(50:04):
about but kind of give us alittle bit more insight about
the book when it's coming.
I'll list all of this in theshow notes and then how people
can like find you and all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah.
So my book why Do I Keep Doingthis is coming out December 9th
and it's honestly all about myjourney with control, or the
illusion of control.
So I walk you through my ownhistory of being in therapy
since I was 15 and what I'velearned and what I'm still
learning.
I think the difference of thisbook from my other books is that
it's kind of a come along withme type of book versus a let me
(50:36):
teach you this.
And there are some teachingmoments, like some of the stuff
I shared today.
I share in the book and there'sother tidbits at the end of
each chapter to get you thinking, get you asking yourself those
questions.
But it's probably my mostpersonal book and I'm very
excited.
You can find it on Amazon,Barnes, Noble, your local
bookstore wherever books aresold.
It's called why Do I Keep Doingthis.
It's very pretty and I'mexcited about her.
(50:57):
So cute To put it into theworld.
Yeah, and thank you so much forhaving me.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, of course, thank you for being here Again,
like I know that this is goingto be a really, really helpful
conversation and the book soundsamazing, so I will definitely
put that info for people so thatthey can maybe pre-order.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, pre-orders really help authors.
It tells us not only where todo book tours and stuff, but
also that's how people becomebestsellers.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, absolutely All right, awesome, Thank you so
much for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Okay, wow, right, that was areally awesome, powerful
conversation with Katie.
I want to leave you with a fewof my own takeaways as well, and
some tools that you can useright now if you're feeling
stuck.
So, first, that awareness iseverything right, instead of
(51:39):
beating yourself up or repeatingthe same loop, just notice it.
Awareness, without judgment, isthe very first step towards
change.
Second, get really curiousabout the underneath.
Okay, so ask yourself what shewas talking about.
What is this behavior doing forme?
What is this about?
What safety or comfort is itgiving me?
(52:01):
And when you name the need, youopen the door to finding
healthier ways to meet it.
Third, support your nervoussystem.
When you're stuck, it's usuallybecause your body doesn't feel
safe enough either to trysomething new.
So take a few deep breaths, boxbreathing, walk outside,
putting your hand over yourheart, reminding yourself that
(52:23):
you're okay, all is well.
All of these little, smallresets can shift everything.
She had some really good tipsfor us in this episode.
And fourth, focus on a microshift.
Okay.
So, instead of trying tooverhaul your entire life in one
day, which is what we tend towant to do pick one small action
that feels aligned and doabletoday.
(52:44):
So tiny steps really compoundover time and they build trust
with yourself over time.
And that's really the finalpoint.
It's about that self-trust, notself-force.
The more you can show your bodyand your mind that you're safe,
that you're capable and that youdon't have to repeat the same
old patterns, the easier it willbecome to step into a new one.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're capable and that
(53:04):
you don't have to repeat thesame old patterns, the easier it
will become to step into a newone.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're in that stuck
place, take a breath, take onesmall step and remind yourself
that you're not broken.
There's nothing wrong here.
You're just running an oldprogram and you have the power
to write a new one.
And if you are a creativebusiness owner and you want
someone to help you walk throughthat, reach out.
(53:25):
I do have a couple of spots openfor one-on-one coaching at the
moment.
Definitely check out Katie'sbook.
All of the info is in the shownotes.
I know y'all are going to get alot out of this episode and I'd
love to hear your feedback.
Hit me up on Instagram at ReneeBowen If you have that feedback
for me, or you can go ahead andleave us a review or a rating.
Those are so appreciated.
(53:50):
You can do that atratethispodcastcom slash.
Renee Bowen.
Okay, you guys have a greatrest of your week.
Love you, bye.
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