July 2, 2025 • 41 mins
What if the key to transforming your life isn't just positive thinking but actually lies deeper in your nervous system? When Kathryn Spears walked away from her "dream job" in marketing, she discovered that beneath her perfectionism, overachieving, and workaholism lay trauma responses that kept her disconnected from her body and true self.
In this mind-opening conversation, Kathryn reveals the critical distinction between mindset work and nervous system regulation. While affirmations and visualization have their place, they can't override a dysregulated nervous system that's constantly signaling danger. Your brain processes 400 billion pieces of information through filters shaped by past experiences, and when you're stuck in survival mode, even the best mindset tools remain inaccessible.
The signs of dysregulation are everywhere if you know what to look for: anxiety, perfectionism, task-jumping with urgency, physical tension, gut issues, and that bone-deep exhaustion at day's end. These aren't just inconveniences - they're your nervous system desperately trying to communicate with you.
Whether you're struggling with perfectionism, experiencing unexplained physical symptoms, or simply feeling stuck despite doing all the "right" things, this episode offers a fresh perspective and practical tools to begin your regulation journey. Your body is speaking to you - are you ready to listen?
Connect with Kathryn: https://kathrynspears.co/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-spears/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kathrynspears.co/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's keeping all of those energy stores and still
(00:03):
firing the adrenaline and firingthe cortisol, which absolutely
has like a full body impact onmultiple systems.
And I do want to touch on theperimenopause because all of
nervous system work is, likemost of the medical industry or
anything, is very geared towardsthe male right.
(00:26):
They are less complexphysiologically and easier to
study, and so it's just reallyfascinating as I'm learning and
mentoring through VeronicaRotman, who specializes in the
female nervous system, and shetalks a lot about how our cycle
and you know that rhythm andritual that comes with it, and
(00:48):
how it ebbs and flows, and thenhow society really keeps us at
like this steady high pace allof the time, which goes directly
against the natural cycle andflow for women.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to Tried and True with a dash of Woo, where
we blend rock solid tips with alittle bit of magic.
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here.
So are you ready to getinspired and have some fun?
Let's dive in.
Hey, hey, welcome back to Triedand True with the Dash of Woo.
(01:28):
I am Renee, your host.
Today's guest on my show issomebody that I am super aligned
with, and this conversation isso fire you guys maybe aren't
ready for it.
Like we really go there, Okay,so Catherine, Catherine Spears.
She is a neurosomaticintelligence practitioner and
(01:52):
she's also the director ofmarketing and communications at
the Neurosomatic Intelligence,which is the leading global
institute of neurosomatics.
So she specializes in nervoussystem integration, helping
female founders, disruptors andtrailblazers who've done the
inner work, the mindset, themanifestation and the strategy,
(02:14):
but they still feel stuck.
So they might've built thesemassive external successful
businesses, but inside, thesesame patterns keep repeating.
You're coached with me.
Before you know, I do a lot ofthis work myself, and what
Catherine does is she helpspeople basically bridge that gap
with precision and integration,using cutting edge neuroscience
(02:37):
and somatic application tocreate deep, lasting change.
We go super deep intodysregulation how past
experiences shape our ability toshow up and be seen so many
topics that you guys have beendealing with and that I hear in
my DMs and I see online, so I'mnot going to even talk anymore
about it.
We're just going to dive rightin.
(02:58):
Enjoy.
Hello Catherine, Thank you somuch for being here.
You and I have so much incommon.
I love everything that you haveto say about everything that
you do.
So I know that my audience isgoing to just eat all of this up
, but I want to start at thevery beginning, before we kind
of dive into all the differentthings of what you do and how
you do it.
You left this, like you knowquote unquote dream job in
(03:21):
marketing and walked away fromit.
What was that turning pointlike?
And did you realize somethingdeeper was going on beneath the
surface?
What was the motivation forthat?
Because I feel like a lot ofwomen in my audience might be
going through something similar.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Just in general, yeah , I mean, I lived the hustle.
I was a certified hustler andwe did chase that dream and even
though I worked in corporate, Inever felt like it was like
that buttoned up, suit and tiecorporate vibe.
I really got to work with someamazing brands.
(03:58):
However, I was really trappedin cycles of, was really trapped
in cycles of perfectionism,overachieving workaholism, and
later on realized that that wasa trauma response and it was
what was really allowing me tocontinue to dissociate from my
body and face what I needed tobe able to really I don't want
(04:23):
to say heal, because I don'tever really think that we're
healed.
You know, I think what would bethe fun in that, if we, like,
had a destination and arrived.
It's really about the in-between.
You know, as you go, the twistsand the turns of the roads and
the journey, and for me, it wasjust this moment of like.
I am doing something that I donot want to be doing and it was
(04:45):
just this moment of like.
Oh well, why am I doing that?
And this deep knowing thatthere was something beneath the
surface that really needed to beaddressed in how it was showing
up in my body, in my health,with my kids, my short fuse, and
so that's really what led me towhere I am today, and, you know
(05:06):
, burning down my marketingcareer.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Wow, that had to be well first of all I mean
liberating and freeing and allthose things but it also had to
be really scary.
So you, you know you obviouslyhad to work through your own
trauma responses around that,and you talk a lot about the
difference between mindset andnervous system work.
So let's get into thatdistinction really quick,
(05:29):
because I also speak about bothand I really I want to sort of
like kind of set the stage forthat before we like really dig
into all these different piecesand like why mindset alone is
not enough.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Absolutely.
It's kind of like I always saythis and you know I read all the
books.
I did all the things I dabbledin, I tried and I kept.
What I realize now was havinganother stress response to the
exact stress response I wastrying to address, and so I
would go into these.
You know, I'm like try tomeditate, I would flight and I,
(06:04):
just for me, being in my bodyand being with myself in silence
was too much, too soon, andthat's just so common,
especially for like millennialwomen, like we were raised from,
you know, that generation oflike, keep going, push through,
pick up, carry on, and ageneration that really couldn't
(06:25):
carry our emotions or handle ouremotions, and so that
repression and suppression ofour emotions is just such a
well-worn path.
And so, really for me, I triedall of the mindset and then I
realized that 95% of ourthoughts, feelings and behaviors
are run from our subconscious.
And then I learned about thenervous system and how it really
(06:47):
pulls rank.
We are taking in 400 billionpieces of information and it's
going through a filtrationsystem that is filtered by our
own lived experiences,predictions, biases, and because
of this it's very biased, andso it's pulling rank before we
actually even get to the mindsetor thinking brain.
(07:08):
And when I figured that out Iwas like, oh, because we also
get really good at what wepractice and so if we're moving
into our survival brain day inand day out, that becomes the
default.
So we're not able to access allyou know, all of the mindset
and incredible you know personaldevelopment books that we may
(07:29):
have read.
When we work with the nervoussystem, we're able to get that
on board and in sync so that wecan activate those areas of the
brain and use those incredibletools.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, it's such a big piece.
So many women come to me.
I mean, well, actually I workwith men too, but most of my
clients tend to be women.
But in general and I'm sure youhear a lot of that too is I
just can't get out of my own way.
That's kind of the indicatorfor me that someone is stuck in
that fight, flight, freeze, fawn, whatever.
(08:00):
You know what I mean.
It definitely, like you said,and I know that millennial women
especially, like you mentioned,were raised in that way, but
also Gen X, like I'm Gen X andyou know, especially, not even
just Gen X women, like a lot ofGen X men especially, were
taught to just reallydisassociate and not deal with
(08:23):
any of those emotions, and it'sso systematic and so
generational in a lot of ways,right.
So when you decide to do thiskind of work because it is a
decision whether, and sometimesthose decisions are loud and
sometimes they're quiet, but youknow, when you make that
decision to do that, you'rereally deciding to be very
(08:44):
vulnerable and uncomfortable fora bit, and so I think that that
is a big piece of it and youmentioned this in the beginning
about, like, the sitting with ityou know that is a really
powerful place.
And if you are having a hardtime because I hear a lot from
people when you know, I alwaysalways mentioned like we have a
lot of tools in our tool beltlike there's different ways to
sort of do this regulationprocess and you kind of have to
(09:07):
figure out what works best foryou, the person you are, your
personality type, human design,whatever.
And if you're having a problemthough, meditating and you go
into instant flight, like thatespecially, or your go-to is to
constantly be chasing thedopamine, whether it's picking
(09:28):
up the phone, being distracted,eating, drinking alcohol,
whatever that is, there's a lotof different ways that it can
show up.
But those are little indicatorsand a lot of people just kind of
, I think, gloss over the factthat oh well, that's just life
and that's just sort of how wedeal with things, but it doesn't
have to be.
And so when you start lookingat all of these things and
(09:50):
realizing like, oh, when I'mpicking up my phone, you know
I'm really just chasing, I'mchasing something or I'm running
away from something, one or theother, right, that is a very
big indication that there issomething more to just that.
So I love that you touched onboth of those things and I know
you also talk a little bit aboutlike the overthinking and the
(10:12):
perfectionism and all of thosedifferent ways that it can show
up.
So, in the work that you dowith somatics in particular,
what are some of thosestrategies that you have seen
work for creative women,especially people with spicy
brains?
Like you know, that's a bigpiece of it.
Is this ADHD or any kind ofneurodiversity that we have on
(10:34):
top of all of this?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yes, I mean speaking from a neurodivergent, neuro
spicy human aka me.
I was late diagnosed with ADHD,so I totally get it and I think
the big piece here is in thework that I do.
It's we use applied neurology,so we're working with the brain
and the integration of the brainand somatics so that like body
(10:57):
emotional expression, and we'redoing it in what we call minimum
effective dose.
To a lot of people that may belike titration and the nervous
system is really having itsmoment on the internet right now
.
And and women especially canreally fall into the trap of I
want to fix myself, I want tofix myself, I'm going to try
(11:19):
this, I'm going to try that.
It's like you're like a crow toyou know the shiny object I'm
speaking from full experience onthis, you know, a few years ago
right, it's like, well, whatabout this?
And then what about that?
And then what ends up happeningis you're really getting the
dopamine hit from the searchingof how can I heal and how can I
fix myself.
And it really comes down to andthis is what we really do with
(11:42):
neurosomatics is resourcingourselves and our capacity at a
physiological level in what wecall the inputs, and that's like
what I call the filtrationsystem, and so our filtration
system is, like many of oursenses, like how we're breathing
, what we're seeing, what we'rehearing.
(12:03):
Are we safe?
Do we know where our body is inspace?
And all of those systems overyears of, like you know, not
moving a certain way or movinginto chronic hyperventilation
and poor breathing patterns,which are just so common now,
like we're seeing it in sleepapnea, mouth breathing, like all
(12:24):
of these things that arehappening as we evolve as humans
.
They're maladaptive patterns andwhat's happening with I'll use
respiration as an example everysingle breath that we're taking
is actually an indication to ournervous system.
We're not safe.
So then, when we're taking inthe information, it's already
(12:44):
skewed to.
We're not safe.
So, even though that incomingside glance or email or what
have you, it's already painted apicture of, we're already not
safe.
And so, instead of working inthe outputs with the things like
anxiety or overwhelm orperfectionism, we're going back
(13:05):
further into the loop, into thefiltration systems, to try to
clear those up so that we cancreate, at a physiological level
, a level of safety.
And then what ends up happeningis the outputs end up changing
because of it, and then itbecomes a 360 shift in all of
the outputs, which could bechronic pain, it could be
(13:26):
behaviors, it could be emotionalresilience you name it.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's fascinating.
I mean, I don't know, I'm sucha geek when it comes to this I
know you are too so it's likesuch a fascinating topic to me
to think about.
I mean, you know everything isconnected and I mean I used to
be a massage therapist and Iwent to a very, a, very like a
new agey massage therapy schoolback in the day, and so we
(13:52):
talked a lot about thatconnection, about the mind and
the body and how you might notfeel stressed.
A lot of people say that like,well, I don't feel stressed or I
don't feel like I should bestressed, right, but their body
is in survival mode, and so howcan you tell Like I know that we
kind of just talked aboutbreath, which I think is a
really, really big piece of it,and I'm a big believer in that
(14:13):
myself and something it's top ofmind for me all the time how
can you tell when you're innervous system dysregulation,
even if your mind seems calm,like what are some of those
things that you see a lot of?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, I would say it really comes out a lot of like
behaviors or pain, likemigraines, headaches.
You tend to like be morestartly, so you'll have that
like jumpiness, you know, ifyou're driving in the car as a
passenger and you're likeoverwhelm, anxiety, inner critic
, imposter, like those are allprotective parts that are kind
(14:50):
of showing you opportunitieswithin the nervous system of
dysregulation.
Something for me is something Ireally need to be careful of
because I can be reallyproductive.
I'm not actually beingproductive, but I think I am but
I'm actually jumping from taskto task to task with a sense of
(15:11):
urgency.
So anytime that sense ofurgency comes in like I need to
answer this email, or you're inone task and then you're picking
up your phone or you're on youremail, then you're moving over
to like Instagram to write asocial post, then you're back
over on Boxer to DM a client orwhat have you?
That like jumping from task totask, that like really urgent,
(15:33):
like well, I need to do thisright now, is definitely a flag.
Okay, there is a response goingon.
And then shoulders up, you know, any tension, any muscle pain,
um, vertigo, dizziness, gutissues, inflammation those
usually are coming from achronic stress state that's been
(15:56):
firing automatically.
The most common and I tellpeople over and over again is
they're like I'm exhausted atthe end of the day and I'm like,
yes, because what's actuallyhappening behind the scenes in
your body is like a whole chainof events.
That's frankly exhausting,right?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, so many of those things show up and we,
like I said before, we kind oftend to just like gloss them
over and be like, oh, it's just,you know, life living in like a
stressful time, I mean, it'sjust like it's one thing after
another, day after day, rightthese days.
And so I think it's veryimportant, now more than ever,
to be very cognizant of this,because it's not just a sign of
(16:39):
the times.
I don't believe that theworld's going to world, life is
going to life.
We can't control all of that.
However, I don't really believethat we were meant to live like
that and it is breaking us downphysically a lot.
I started noticing so many ofthese things early on, like in
my 30s.
(16:59):
So many women are also headinginto the perimenopause factor,
in addition to theneurodiversity, and then, on top
of it, it's getting to be a lotfor women in general,
especially right now.
So what kind of heart does thatplay Like?
(17:21):
Obviously I've been through it.
Like I went through menopause,like actual menopause in my
early 40s, like way early, and Iknow that had a lot to do with
all of this.
I lived in a dysregulated statefor the better part of 20 years
, like easily, easily, you know,starting with the birth of my
twins.
I can, I can trace it back LikeI had three kids under the age
(17:42):
of two and we had twins likeright after we had my oldest.
And then right after we hadtwins was we got my oldest son
diagnosed with autism.
My husband's an actor.
It was like stress, stress,stress, stress, stress and it
just like literally set me onthis path.
Yes, yeah, and I was diagnosedwith Hashimoto's.
(18:03):
My body started shutting down.
I gained like a lot, a lot, alot of weight.
I had a lot of inflammation, oh, and then, because I was just
not dealing with any of that, Ijust started drinking a lot at
night and just thinking thatthat was normal, like to have a
glass or two or three of wine,and that was that's how I lived
for a very long time, until afew years ago when I started
(18:24):
doing this work.
And so I don't know, I justfeel like a lot of us get stuck
in that.
So if somebody is likelistening and they're stuck in
that and they know like, okay,yeah, you've called out some of
my red flags, what does thatfirst step feel like for them?
Because I feel like that alsocan push you into overwhelm and
shut down mode, right, like, ohmy God, it's too much, I can't
(18:44):
do it, so I'm just going to.
I'm just going to keep doingwhat I'm doing.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And any change is a threat to the brain, like that's
why habit change is so hard andwhy willpower alone just isn't
enough, or mindset isn't enough,because the brain, like that's
a big energy pull, you know, tomake a change.
And when you're already in thatsurvival state, it's like no,
(19:08):
no, no, we have to preserve ourenergy for this bear that we're
running from.
You know, even though it's nota literal bear, like the brain
doesn't discern, and so it'skeeping all of those energy
stores and still firing theadrenaline and firing the
cortisol, which absolutely haslike a full body impact on
(19:31):
multiple systems.
And I do want to touch on theperimenopause, because all of
nervous system work is, likemost of the medical industry or
anything, is very geared towardsthe male right.
They are less complexphysiologically and easier to
(19:52):
study, and so it's just reallyfascinating, as I'm learning and
mentoring through VeronicaRotman, who specializes in the
female nervous system, and shetalks a lot about how our cycle
and that rhythm and ritual thatcomes with it and how it ebbs
and flows, and then how societyreally keeps us at this steady
(20:15):
high pace all of the time, whichgoes directly against the
natural cycle and flow for women.
And then she talks about howthe hormone fluctuations change
throughout the cycle and rightbefore you get your bleed.
It's essentially like yourwindow of tolerance is lower,
you take zero bullshit and likethat's your report card.
(20:39):
And so I was like I am arageaholic before I get my
period.
But then as I started to leanin and realize like women really
need oxytocin, dopaminedirectly depletes the oxytocin
which we live in a world where,like dopamine, dopamine,
dopamine, and I started to playwith that and also express at a
(21:01):
minimum effective dose in a waythat felt good for me
somatically.
I'm like, oh my gosh, wow, thathappened really fast.
Like I am not as ragey, thankgoodness.
Like my husband and children donot need to hide from me, right
, and we laugh and it's like yes, and I think about so many
(21:22):
women and even my own self.
You know being I was on anxietymedication for 15 plus years
and it was quieting that likeinner emotional dialogue that I
actually just needed to express.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And all of those red flags or symptoms that I was
experiencing were my.
They were my nervous systemtrying to communicate with me.
And I'm not anti-medication,like I needed that medication
then.
And now I'm in a place where Iwas able to safely titrate off
with you know, doctorssupporting and tools to support,
and now I'm like, okay, that'smy sign, that's my symptom,
(22:05):
that's me talking to me, right,like those are my white flags
before they get to my red flags,which is what would happen
before.
And it's just really like welive in a society that tells us
to kind of like, meet thosethings, push through, push on,
and it's just such a detriment.
I mean, chronic illness is atan all-time high and yeah, yeah,
(22:26):
no, your story is so similar tomine too.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I've always had anxiety.
I didn't realize that's what itwas called until I was in my
20s and I had my first panicattack.
And then, you know, after yearsand years, like now, I can look
back like at my childhood andsee, oh yeah, like it was.
You know not, it's not reallytechnically quote unquote normal
to be awake all night, stressthat your house potentially
(22:53):
would catch on fire and everyonewould die.
I'm like oh, not all childrendid that.
You know what I mean.
Like so, oh, not everybody getshome from school on a regular
basis.
Because my stomach hurts so bad.
They thought I might havestomach cancer as a 17 year old,
but it was really anxiety, likeas a 17-year-old, but it was
really anxiety.
Like, oh, that's not normal.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So I feel like you know, I can so relate.
I'm like, yeah, I wasprescribed antacids at 12.
Prescription antacids at 12?
Because I would call home oneyear in school.
I missed like 75 days of school.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, they were convinced.
My mom was like something iswrong with you, like we have to
go see about it.
I had to have like upper andlower GI stuff as a 17 year old
which is terrible and traumaticin and of itself, by the way but
, like you know, she was justworried that I literally had
something wrong because I was sosick all the time.
Yeah, it was anxiety and itwasn't until like literally my
(23:53):
40s that I learned how toeffectively deal with it.
I was also on medication on andoff for quite a while and let
me tell you, I needed thatmedication at that time for sure
.
But you're right, my kids werelittle.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I had to, I had to like function right, like I was
do or die.
Really it's like do or die,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I was like, well, no one else is here to take care of
these kids, like my husband andI both work, we don't have
family anywhere close to us.
It wasn't like I could just notbe a parent that day, like I
had to get it done, and so themedication helped me get it done
.
I was also in therapy at thetime, like there was a lot of
other things going on.
But all that to say, you kindof do have to do what you got to
(24:35):
do to get through.
But I wanted to just touch onthat piece, like if someone is
listening and you're dealingwith that, those are signals,
triggers, they're an invitationto look deeper if you have the
capacity.
Not everybody has the capacityat that moment.
I really am a big believer thatour timing is perfect.
(24:56):
We're going to find what weneed to find when we're meant to
find it.
But if you are struggling withthings like that and you're
having to deal with all of itand you are doing these
protocols that are helpingbecause you need to, that's okay
.
And also you can still do thiswork at the level that feels
(25:19):
safe for you, and the more youopen up to it, the more you will
open up as well.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah yeah, safety begets safety.
Truly, it's like safetycapacity, safety capacity,
safety capacity.
And then it's just like you cansee so clearly and you're not
in that narrow fog anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, like, take the little steps.
Like it's okay to take thosesteps.
Like, for me, one of thereasons why I was finally able
to also wean off of medicationyears ago is because I started
doing really deep work on thisand it took a while.
It doesn't always have to, butfor me it did and that's okay.
You know what I mean.
(26:04):
Like, everyone has their owntimeline and for lots of reasons
that's just sort of kind ofwhere I was.
But the thing that is important,I think, to hear is that there
are these options.
There is an opportunity for youto really and, like you said,
not necessarily use the wordheal as an endpoint, but healing
(26:28):
as a journey.
I think is really importantbecause it is a step forward, it
is a step in a direction whereyou want to go.
I'm always talking about, youknow, your unconscious mind
really just wants to run theshow, because it's survival,
it's keeping you safe, itliterally only wants to keep you
alive.
It's its own job and so it'sour job to decide okay, I'm
(26:50):
going to step into the driver'sseat, you're going to get in the
back seat, we're going to workthrough this.
But it is a decision and youhave to be intentional and aware
of it.
So what are some of thesethings that we can do to
interrupt these patterns thatmight be a good starting point
for somebody.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Basically, yeah, there's so many, and I always
kind of like tailor it to thehuman.
You know, with measurement, sowe can measure our nervous
system and give it an input, orlike a tool or a strategy, and
then measure again.
And a really great and simpleway to do that is literally like
looking left and right.
(27:28):
And the reason that is isbecause when you then do a tool,
so say I say like let's do avisual reset where you cup your
hands over your eyes for 30seconds to a minute and then,
after you do that, you take aregulated breath and then you
look right and left again.
If your range of motion is morelike, if you can have more range
(27:51):
of motion, that means it's areally positive tool for you.
And the reason that is, and thereason that we use range of
motion, is because A we'removing beyond feelings, which is
in our logical, cognitivethinking brain, where our
subconscious patterns come intoplay.
You know, like people pleasingand fawning like, oh yeah, that
feels great, which is what Isaid all the time in therapy,
(28:12):
when really it didn't.
And so when we have more rangeof motion, it means we're less
braced, because when we moveinto a stress response, the
first thing we do is brace, sowe have more tension, which
equals less range of motion.
So it's a really great way tokind of like test your own tools
and, you know, do away with theones that are either negative
(28:36):
or neutral and just stick withthe ones that give you a
positive range of motion,because those are the ones that
are telling your nervous systemand giving signal.
I am safe.
Anything that's negative orneutral is not going to make a
change for you.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's really.
That's a good point.
That's so interesting too.
Like I also heard you, I wantto kind of like touch on just a
little bit about you know, yeah,we're talking about doing the
inner work, obviously for thebenefit of the person.
But you've said before I knowI've heard you say things like
when women regulate theirnervous systems, it changes our
(29:13):
culture, because we are also sohighly affected by not just our
families of origin and the waysthat we were brought up, but,
like the culture in generalaround us.
So what does that ripple effectlook like?
Because that, to me, is areally awesome conversation to
have, because a lot of womenwill not do this work.
(29:35):
They will, you know, choose tonot do this work because it
feels selfish, which is alsoprogramming but all kinds of
that stuff right.
But you can reframe that,because when you look outward
and you start to realize, oh, byme doing this work, it is
therefore going to do X, Y and Zfor everyone around me.
(29:55):
What does that ripple effectlook like?
Let's go there for a minute.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Oh, this one.
Like I can feel it in my heart,like I'm so passionate about
this because one person can makesuch a massive impact, because
that one human brings theirregulated self to every
conversation.
I can now sit with my13-year-old daughter at 10 pm on
a school night who's had afriend body shamed that day and
(30:23):
she's feeling the impact of thatand meeting her there where
before I wouldn't have had thecapacity at 10 pm to do that and
have those in-depthconversations.
I can also have thoseconversations from a place that
I'm not actually projecting myown wounds from my own childhood
bullying which used to comeinto play in the conversations
(30:46):
because my own fight would comein.
I'd be like, why is that kidsaying that?
Like they can't say thosethings to you, like don't take
that right.
And that's totallycounterproductive.
It overshadows the entireexperience.
It doesn't allow my kids tofeel safe and seen and move
through their own emotions inthat moment.
(31:09):
Instead, my own wounds andprojections are projecting onto
them.
Instead, my own wounds andprojections are projecting onto
them so I can see it in my kids,you know, and how they even
carry themselves throughout theworld.
My daughter shared with me theother day and like I might get
emotional about it.
But there was a child byherself on the playground and
her and her friend said, hey,let's go see if she's okay.
(31:31):
And the child was really upsetand my daughter said do you need
a hug?
And she hugged her and she saidmom, I could feel her like
sobbing and I went to let go andshe pulled me closer and I was
like I needed an Olivia.
You know, when I was a kid,those are the acts you know.
(31:51):
And then my son, same thing,meeting him where he's at, he is
highly sensitive.
He had a very traumatic birthwhich created a very hyperactive
stress response.
He was colic his wholechildhood, his whole infancy.
I wish I knew what I knew nowthen, yeah, now then.
(32:17):
And he's carried that with himand he'll say, like mom, can we
do some neurosomatic tools?
Or he'll notice when he wantsto do a wall push or a pillow
slam to deactivate all of theenergy that's in his body.
And then my husband who's thelast one on board, who's the
(32:39):
last one on board brings it inconversations now, and he even
speaks some of the language of,like the narratives that we have
, you know, that are happeningand that are protective, and
then we bring it into communityand, like each of us now are,
bringing it into the school,into our work, into our
leadership, into our friendships, and it's just such a gift.
And if we aren't doing that,then really we are just
(33:02):
mirroring and projecting our ownwounds onto each other over and
over again and harming humanity.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, period, literally Period.
I had to draw some huge no,it's truly.
It is Like.
That's literally it.
Like we are all.
There's so many people likehello on the internet just
walking around doing thatconstantly, because we all have
our own map of the world, we allhave our own experiences, we
all have our own programming and, if left to our own devices,
(33:35):
that unconscious mind is goingto keep running the show because
that's what it's built to doand it'll keep you in a reactive
state.
It just will, because it feelssafe, it's protective, it's like
oh my God, we have to survive.
That's literally it.
So when we do this kind of work,like, I always say this our
kids don't, they don't do whatwe tell them.
(33:57):
Right, they're not.
They're not going to do what wetell them to do, but they will
model and the better we are forourselves, the more work that we
do on ourselves and the moreregulated that we are, the more
regulated they're going to be,just because that is how it
works.
Like, literally they will.
They will pick up more of thatjust by us setting that stage,
(34:22):
setting the energy than anythingelse Like it's so much more
impactful.
So the modeling is a really,really big piece of it as far as
, like, the parenting of it.
But even in, just like you said,like out in the community, in
the schools and just everywhereyou go, I mean you can go into a
store and you could be in theworst mood, but if people are
(34:44):
smiling at you or someone's niceto you in the checkout or
whatever, it does shift yourstate, and so I know it's hard
to like sort of break out ofthat pattern.
But when you do, it's kind of asnowball effect and it's really
awesome when, because you canfeel it like you can feel it
(35:05):
like you're in more flow, thingsflow to you, like you are more
receptive to all the abundancethat you want and that's around
you.
But you're just, you're soclosed off to it.
Normally when you are living inthat that state of fight,
flight, nervous system,dysregulation, whatever you want
to call it.
So I think the best work thatyou can do is this kind of work,
(35:27):
because you are going to be abetter human parent partner
coach, human parent partnercoach, whatever it was, just by
design, and the ripple effect isreally big.
One person can really change.
So I hope that you guys reallyget that, because I know you've
seen that in your work.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, it's huge.
It's so huge, you know, likeone person can make a huge, huge
, huge difference.
It just multiplies, itmultiplies and multiplies, and
multiplies.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Well, tell people a little bit about how they can
find you if they want to lookmore into doing this kind of
work, and how you do this kindof work and where you like to
connect with people before wewrap up, and I'll make sure I
put all this in the show notesas well.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
So you can find me on beyondyourmindsetcom and also
on Instagram atkatherinespheresco, where I drop
lots of truth bombs and speakmy unfiltered truth, and that's
what I also love to help peopledo.
I've now finally found a way toblend my beautiful past life
that I burned down my marketinginto my present line of work,
(36:36):
and it's just such a beautifulebb and flow of past life and
present life in like the truestself-expression.
So Instagram and find me atbeyondyourmindsetcom.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, I love that and yeah, you definitely stand in
that.
I love the messaging on yourInstagram.
I don't know if it's partlythis work, coupled with the fact
that once you do hit 50 andover, you really do.
You're like I just don't careanymore, I'm back to say what I
(37:10):
want.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, and in a society where we were told to
like sit, still, don't use yourindoor voice, like use your
gentle little girl voice, it'slike no, no, this radical
rebellion.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, exactly that's what we need to say Exactly.
And I think it's reallyimportant too, because I have a
lot of women in my universe whotell me things like well, I want
to be professional or whatever,and I was like you can still be
professional and still beyourself like kind of the whole
vibe In general.
I really feel like it's kind oflike off topic, but not really.
(37:45):
I do feel like we are and havebeen moving into a much more
unapologetic space like that andI'm all for it, like I'm here
for it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
And like, truly, behind every professional power
suit is a human and we are allhumans and we all have our own
like quirks and things we liketo do and say, and when we're
showing up only in the powersuit in one place and not the
other, it's just like thisfragmentation and this mask and
like we can wear the power suitand still be the human behind
(38:20):
the power suit you know,Absolutely Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well, thank you so much for being here for having
this chat with me.
I could talk about this kind ofstuff all day, every day.
We could go like 12 layers deepwith this, but I really
appreciate you bringing thisenergy to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Thanks so much for having me.
It was great to chat with you.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Okay.
So I hope you guys got a lotout of that episode.
I know I did.
You know I always love talkingabout any of this.
Like I told her, I could talkabout this for hours and hours
and hours.
But I do want you guys to reallykind of dig into this somatic
piece of it.
You know I am not certified insomatics but because I was a
(39:02):
massage therapist years andyears ago, I've always been on
that side of the fence.
Basically, like you got to getyour body on board, because
everything is connected.
Everything is connected and wehold it in our bodies.
And so I know that from doingbody work on people in the past
(39:23):
and also getting my own bodywork done consistently over the
years, it's a very importantpiece of all of this for me.
We're not just, like you know,we don't want to just walk
around just with our heads.
We're attached to a body.
So you really do need toconsider all of that when you're
(39:44):
looking into it, and you know.
The other part of this too thatI want to just make sure you
guys hear is that, sitting inthe space of the
uncomfortableness a lot ofpeople don't want to deal with
it, can't deal with it, maybebecause of just environmental
things and all of that, Itotally get it.
But if you do have the capacityto look into it, if you do have
(40:08):
the capacity to start gettingcurious about I wonder what that
trigger is about, or I wonderwhy I am always in a reactive
state, then I feel like that isa perfect little invitation for
you to just take a step in thatdirection.
It can be a small step.
It can be reading a book, itcould be listening to this
podcast, it could be journalingabout it.
(40:29):
Open yourself up to it andyou'll be surprised.
Oh, it just sort of drops in.
I'm a big believer that we aremeant to find what we are meant
to find at exactly the righttime.
Like your, timing is alwaysperfect.
So if this is intriguing to you, I say just, you know, follow,
follow that inclination and lookinto it and see if there is
(40:53):
something to it for you.
And I hope, as always, thatthis episode was insightful and
that it made some sort of impactin your life.
And if it did, share it with afriend and let me know.
But in general, thanks againfor being here.
I love you guys.
I hope you have a fantasticweek ahead.
It's keeping all of those energy stores and still
(00:03):
firing the adrenaline and firingthe cortisol, which absolutely
has like a full body impact onmultiple systems.
And I do want to touch on theperimenopause because all of
nervous system work is, likemost of the medical industry or
anything, is very geared towardsthe male right.
(00:26):
They are less complexphysiologically and easier to
study, and so it's just reallyfascinating as I'm learning and
mentoring through VeronicaRotman, who specializes in the
female nervous system, and shetalks a lot about how our cycle
and you know that rhythm andritual that comes with it, and
(00:48):
how it ebbs and flows, and thenhow society really keeps us at
like this steady high pace allof the time, which goes directly
against the natural cycle andflow for women.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to Tried and True with a dash of Woo, where
we blend rock solid tips with alittle bit of magic.
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here.
So are you ready to getinspired and have some fun?
Let's dive in.
Hey, hey, welcome back to Triedand True with the Dash of Woo.
(01:28):
I am Renee, your host.
Today's guest on my show issomebody that I am super aligned
with, and this conversation isso fire you guys maybe aren't
ready for it.
Like we really go there, Okay,so Catherine, Catherine Spears.
She is a neurosomaticintelligence practitioner and
(01:52):
she's also the director ofmarketing and communications at
the Neurosomatic Intelligence,which is the leading global
institute of neurosomatics.
So she specializes in nervoussystem integration, helping
female founders, disruptors andtrailblazers who've done the
inner work, the mindset, themanifestation and the strategy,
(02:14):
but they still feel stuck.
So they might've built thesemassive external successful
businesses, but inside, thesesame patterns keep repeating.
You're coached with me.
Before you know, I do a lot ofthis work myself, and what
Catherine does is she helpspeople basically bridge that gap
with precision and integration,using cutting edge neuroscience
(02:37):
and somatic application tocreate deep, lasting change.
We go super deep intodysregulation how past
experiences shape our ability toshow up and be seen so many
topics that you guys have beendealing with and that I hear in
my DMs and I see online, so I'mnot going to even talk anymore
about it.
We're just going to dive rightin.
(02:58):
Enjoy.
Hello Catherine, Thank you somuch for being here.
You and I have so much incommon.
I love everything that you haveto say about everything that
you do.
So I know that my audience isgoing to just eat all of this up
, but I want to start at thevery beginning, before we kind
of dive into all the differentthings of what you do and how
you do it.
You left this, like you knowquote unquote dream job in
(03:21):
marketing and walked away fromit.
What was that turning pointlike?
And did you realize somethingdeeper was going on beneath the
surface?
What was the motivation forthat?
Because I feel like a lot ofwomen in my audience might be
going through something similar.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Just in general, yeah , I mean, I lived the hustle.
I was a certified hustler andwe did chase that dream and even
though I worked in corporate, Inever felt like it was like
that buttoned up, suit and tiecorporate vibe.
I really got to work with someamazing brands.
(03:58):
However, I was really trappedin cycles of, was really trapped
in cycles of perfectionism,overachieving workaholism, and
later on realized that that wasa trauma response and it was
what was really allowing me tocontinue to dissociate from my
body and face what I needed tobe able to really I don't want
(04:23):
to say heal, because I don'tever really think that we're
healed.
You know, I think what would bethe fun in that, if we, like,
had a destination and arrived.
It's really about the in-between.
You know, as you go, the twistsand the turns of the roads and
the journey, and for me, it wasjust this moment of like.
I am doing something that I donot want to be doing and it was
(04:45):
just this moment of like.
Oh well, why am I doing that?
And this deep knowing thatthere was something beneath the
surface that really needed to beaddressed in how it was showing
up in my body, in my health,with my kids, my short fuse, and
so that's really what led me towhere I am today, and, you know
(05:06):
, burning down my marketingcareer.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Wow, that had to be well first of all I mean
liberating and freeing and allthose things but it also had to
be really scary.
So you, you know you obviouslyhad to work through your own
trauma responses around that,and you talk a lot about the
difference between mindset andnervous system work.
So let's get into thatdistinction really quick,
(05:29):
because I also speak about bothand I really I want to sort of
like kind of set the stage forthat before we like really dig
into all these different piecesand like why mindset alone is
not enough.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Absolutely.
It's kind of like I always saythis and you know I read all the
books.
I did all the things I dabbledin, I tried and I kept.
What I realize now was havinganother stress response to the
exact stress response I wastrying to address, and so I
would go into these.
You know, I'm like try tomeditate, I would flight and I,
(06:04):
just for me, being in my bodyand being with myself in silence
was too much, too soon, andthat's just so common,
especially for like millennialwomen, like we were raised from,
you know, that generation oflike, keep going, push through,
pick up, carry on, and ageneration that really couldn't
(06:25):
carry our emotions or handle ouremotions, and so that
repression and suppression ofour emotions is just such a
well-worn path.
And so, really for me, I triedall of the mindset and then I
realized that 95% of ourthoughts, feelings and behaviors
are run from our subconscious.
And then I learned about thenervous system and how it really
(06:47):
pulls rank.
We are taking in 400 billionpieces of information and it's
going through a filtrationsystem that is filtered by our
own lived experiences,predictions, biases, and because
of this it's very biased, andso it's pulling rank before we
actually even get to the mindsetor thinking brain.
(07:08):
And when I figured that out Iwas like, oh, because we also
get really good at what wepractice and so if we're moving
into our survival brain day inand day out, that becomes the
default.
So we're not able to access allyou know, all of the mindset
and incredible you know personaldevelopment books that we may
(07:29):
have read.
When we work with the nervoussystem, we're able to get that
on board and in sync so that wecan activate those areas of the
brain and use those incredibletools.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, it's such a big piece.
So many women come to me.
I mean, well, actually I workwith men too, but most of my
clients tend to be women.
But in general and I'm sure youhear a lot of that too is I
just can't get out of my own way.
That's kind of the indicatorfor me that someone is stuck in
that fight, flight, freeze, fawn, whatever.
(08:00):
You know what I mean.
It definitely, like you said,and I know that millennial women
especially, like you mentioned,were raised in that way, but
also Gen X, like I'm Gen X andyou know, especially, not even
just Gen X women, like a lot ofGen X men especially, were
taught to just reallydisassociate and not deal with
(08:23):
any of those emotions, and it'sso systematic and so
generational in a lot of ways,right.
So when you decide to do thiskind of work because it is a
decision whether, and sometimesthose decisions are loud and
sometimes they're quiet, but youknow, when you make that
decision to do that, you'rereally deciding to be very
(08:44):
vulnerable and uncomfortable fora bit, and so I think that that
is a big piece of it and youmentioned this in the beginning
about, like, the sitting with ityou know that is a really
powerful place.
And if you are having a hardtime because I hear a lot from
people when you know, I alwaysalways mentioned like we have a
lot of tools in our tool beltlike there's different ways to
sort of do this regulationprocess and you kind of have to
(09:07):
figure out what works best foryou, the person you are, your
personality type, human design,whatever.
And if you're having a problemthough, meditating and you go
into instant flight, like thatespecially, or your go-to is to
constantly be chasing thedopamine, whether it's picking
(09:28):
up the phone, being distracted,eating, drinking alcohol,
whatever that is, there's a lotof different ways that it can
show up.
But those are little indicatorsand a lot of people just kind of
, I think, gloss over the factthat oh well, that's just life
and that's just sort of how wedeal with things, but it doesn't
have to be.
And so when you start lookingat all of these things and
(09:50):
realizing like, oh, when I'mpicking up my phone, you know
I'm really just chasing, I'mchasing something or I'm running
away from something, one or theother, right, that is a very
big indication that there issomething more to just that.
So I love that you touched onboth of those things and I know
you also talk a little bit aboutlike the overthinking and the
(10:12):
perfectionism and all of thosedifferent ways that it can show
up.
So, in the work that you dowith somatics in particular,
what are some of thosestrategies that you have seen
work for creative women,especially people with spicy
brains?
Like you know, that's a bigpiece of it.
Is this ADHD or any kind ofneurodiversity that we have on
(10:34):
top of all of this?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yes, I mean speaking from a neurodivergent, neuro
spicy human aka me.
I was late diagnosed with ADHD,so I totally get it and I think
the big piece here is in thework that I do.
It's we use applied neurology,so we're working with the brain
and the integration of the brainand somatics so that like body
(10:57):
emotional expression, and we'redoing it in what we call minimum
effective dose.
To a lot of people that may belike titration and the nervous
system is really having itsmoment on the internet right now
.
And and women especially canreally fall into the trap of I
want to fix myself, I want tofix myself, I'm going to try
(11:19):
this, I'm going to try that.
It's like you're like a crow toyou know the shiny object I'm
speaking from full experience onthis, you know, a few years ago
right, it's like, well, whatabout this?
And then what about that?
And then what ends up happeningis you're really getting the
dopamine hit from the searchingof how can I heal and how can I
fix myself.
And it really comes down to andthis is what we really do with
(11:42):
neurosomatics is resourcingourselves and our capacity at a
physiological level in what wecall the inputs, and that's like
what I call the filtrationsystem, and so our filtration
system is, like many of oursenses, like how we're breathing
, what we're seeing, what we'rehearing.
(12:03):
Are we safe?
Do we know where our body is inspace?
And all of those systems overyears of, like you know, not
moving a certain way or movinginto chronic hyperventilation
and poor breathing patterns,which are just so common now,
like we're seeing it in sleepapnea, mouth breathing, like all
(12:24):
of these things that arehappening as we evolve as humans
.
They're maladaptive patterns andwhat's happening with I'll use
respiration as an example everysingle breath that we're taking
is actually an indication to ournervous system.
We're not safe.
So then, when we're taking inthe information, it's already
(12:44):
skewed to.
We're not safe.
So, even though that incomingside glance or email or what
have you, it's already painted apicture of, we're already not
safe.
And so, instead of working inthe outputs with the things like
anxiety or overwhelm orperfectionism, we're going back
(13:05):
further into the loop, into thefiltration systems, to try to
clear those up so that we cancreate, at a physiological level
, a level of safety.
And then what ends up happeningis the outputs end up changing
because of it, and then itbecomes a 360 shift in all of
the outputs, which could bechronic pain, it could be
(13:26):
behaviors, it could be emotionalresilience you name it.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's fascinating.
I mean, I don't know, I'm sucha geek when it comes to this I
know you are too so it's likesuch a fascinating topic to me
to think about.
I mean, you know everything isconnected and I mean I used to
be a massage therapist and Iwent to a very, a, very like a
new agey massage therapy schoolback in the day, and so we
(13:52):
talked a lot about thatconnection, about the mind and
the body and how you might notfeel stressed.
A lot of people say that like,well, I don't feel stressed or I
don't feel like I should bestressed, right, but their body
is in survival mode, and so howcan you tell Like I know that we
kind of just talked aboutbreath, which I think is a
really, really big piece of it,and I'm a big believer in that
(14:13):
myself and something it's top ofmind for me all the time how
can you tell when you're innervous system dysregulation,
even if your mind seems calm,like what are some of those
things that you see a lot of?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, I would say it really comes out a lot of like
behaviors or pain, likemigraines, headaches.
You tend to like be morestartly, so you'll have that
like jumpiness, you know, ifyou're driving in the car as a
passenger and you're likeoverwhelm, anxiety, inner critic
, imposter, like those are allprotective parts that are kind
(14:50):
of showing you opportunitieswithin the nervous system of
dysregulation.
Something for me is something Ireally need to be careful of
because I can be reallyproductive.
I'm not actually beingproductive, but I think I am but
I'm actually jumping from taskto task to task with a sense of
(15:11):
urgency.
So anytime that sense ofurgency comes in like I need to
answer this email, or you're inone task and then you're picking
up your phone or you're on youremail, then you're moving over
to like Instagram to write asocial post, then you're back
over on Boxer to DM a client orwhat have you?
That like jumping from task totask, that like really urgent,
(15:33):
like well, I need to do thisright now, is definitely a flag.
Okay, there is a response goingon.
And then shoulders up, you know, any tension, any muscle pain,
um, vertigo, dizziness, gutissues, inflammation those
usually are coming from achronic stress state that's been
(15:56):
firing automatically.
The most common and I tellpeople over and over again is
they're like I'm exhausted atthe end of the day and I'm like,
yes, because what's actuallyhappening behind the scenes in
your body is like a whole chainof events.
That's frankly exhausting,right?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, so many of those things show up and we,
like I said before, we kind oftend to just like gloss them
over and be like, oh, it's just,you know, life living in like a
stressful time, I mean, it'sjust like it's one thing after
another, day after day, rightthese days.
And so I think it's veryimportant, now more than ever,
to be very cognizant of this,because it's not just a sign of
(16:39):
the times.
I don't believe that theworld's going to world, life is
going to life.
We can't control all of that.
However, I don't really believethat we were meant to live like
that and it is breaking us downphysically a lot.
I started noticing so many ofthese things early on, like in
my 30s.
(16:59):
So many women are also headinginto the perimenopause factor,
in addition to theneurodiversity, and then, on top
of it, it's getting to be a lotfor women in general,
especially right now.
So what kind of heart does thatplay Like?
(17:21):
Obviously I've been through it.
Like I went through menopause,like actual menopause in my
early 40s, like way early, and Iknow that had a lot to do with
all of this.
I lived in a dysregulated statefor the better part of 20 years
, like easily, easily, you know,starting with the birth of my
twins.
I can, I can trace it back LikeI had three kids under the age
(17:42):
of two and we had twins likeright after we had my oldest.
And then right after we hadtwins was we got my oldest son
diagnosed with autism.
My husband's an actor.
It was like stress, stress,stress, stress, stress and it
just like literally set me onthis path.
Yes, yeah, and I was diagnosedwith Hashimoto's.
(18:03):
My body started shutting down.
I gained like a lot, a lot, alot of weight.
I had a lot of inflammation, oh, and then, because I was just
not dealing with any of that, Ijust started drinking a lot at
night and just thinking thatthat was normal, like to have a
glass or two or three of wine,and that was that's how I lived
for a very long time, until afew years ago when I started
(18:24):
doing this work.
And so I don't know, I justfeel like a lot of us get stuck
in that.
So if somebody is likelistening and they're stuck in
that and they know like, okay,yeah, you've called out some of
my red flags, what does thatfirst step feel like for them?
Because I feel like that alsocan push you into overwhelm and
shut down mode, right, like, ohmy God, it's too much, I can't
(18:44):
do it, so I'm just going to.
I'm just going to keep doingwhat I'm doing.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And any change is a threat to the brain, like that's
why habit change is so hard andwhy willpower alone just isn't
enough, or mindset isn't enough,because the brain, like that's
a big energy pull, you know, tomake a change.
And when you're already in thatsurvival state, it's like no,
(19:08):
no, no, we have to preserve ourenergy for this bear that we're
running from.
You know, even though it's nota literal bear, like the brain
doesn't discern, and so it'skeeping all of those energy
stores and still firing theadrenaline and firing the
cortisol, which absolutely haslike a full body impact on
(19:31):
multiple systems.
And I do want to touch on theperimenopause, because all of
nervous system work is, likemost of the medical industry or
anything, is very geared towardsthe male right.
They are less complexphysiologically and easier to
(19:52):
study, and so it's just reallyfascinating, as I'm learning and
mentoring through VeronicaRotman, who specializes in the
female nervous system, and shetalks a lot about how our cycle
and that rhythm and ritual thatcomes with it and how it ebbs
and flows, and then how societyreally keeps us at this steady
(20:15):
high pace all of the time, whichgoes directly against the
natural cycle and flow for women.
And then she talks about howthe hormone fluctuations change
throughout the cycle and rightbefore you get your bleed.
It's essentially like yourwindow of tolerance is lower,
you take zero bullshit and likethat's your report card.
(20:39):
And so I was like I am arageaholic before I get my
period.
But then as I started to leanin and realize like women really
need oxytocin, dopaminedirectly depletes the oxytocin
which we live in a world where,like dopamine, dopamine,
dopamine, and I started to playwith that and also express at a
(21:01):
minimum effective dose in a waythat felt good for me
somatically.
I'm like, oh my gosh, wow, thathappened really fast.
Like I am not as ragey, thankgoodness.
Like my husband and children donot need to hide from me, right
, and we laugh and it's like yes, and I think about so many
(21:22):
women and even my own self.
You know being I was on anxietymedication for 15 plus years
and it was quieting that likeinner emotional dialogue that I
actually just needed to express.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And all of those red flags or symptoms that I was
experiencing were my.
They were my nervous systemtrying to communicate with me.
And I'm not anti-medication,like I needed that medication
then.
And now I'm in a place where Iwas able to safely titrate off
with you know, doctorssupporting and tools to support,
and now I'm like, okay, that'smy sign, that's my symptom,
(22:05):
that's me talking to me, right,like those are my white flags
before they get to my red flags,which is what would happen
before.
And it's just really like welive in a society that tells us
to kind of like, meet thosethings, push through, push on,
and it's just such a detriment.
I mean, chronic illness is atan all-time high and yeah, yeah,
(22:26):
no, your story is so similar tomine too.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I've always had anxiety.
I didn't realize that's what itwas called until I was in my
20s and I had my first panicattack.
And then, you know, after yearsand years, like now, I can look
back like at my childhood andsee, oh yeah, like it was.
You know not, it's not reallytechnically quote unquote normal
to be awake all night, stressthat your house potentially
(22:53):
would catch on fire and everyonewould die.
I'm like oh, not all childrendid that.
You know what I mean.
Like so, oh, not everybody getshome from school on a regular
basis.
Because my stomach hurts so bad.
They thought I might havestomach cancer as a 17 year old,
but it was really anxiety, likeas a 17-year-old, but it was
really anxiety.
Like, oh, that's not normal.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So I feel like you know, I can so relate.
I'm like, yeah, I wasprescribed antacids at 12.
Prescription antacids at 12?
Because I would call home oneyear in school.
I missed like 75 days of school.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, they were convinced.
My mom was like something iswrong with you, like we have to
go see about it.
I had to have like upper andlower GI stuff as a 17 year old
which is terrible and traumaticin and of itself, by the way but
, like you know, she was justworried that I literally had
something wrong because I was sosick all the time.
Yeah, it was anxiety and itwasn't until like literally my
(23:53):
40s that I learned how toeffectively deal with it.
I was also on medication on andoff for quite a while and let
me tell you, I needed thatmedication at that time for sure
.
But you're right, my kids werelittle.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I had to, I had to like function right, like I was
do or die.
Really it's like do or die,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I was like, well, no one else is here to take care of
these kids, like my husband andI both work, we don't have
family anywhere close to us.
It wasn't like I could just notbe a parent that day, like I
had to get it done, and so themedication helped me get it done
.
I was also in therapy at thetime, like there was a lot of
other things going on.
But all that to say, you kindof do have to do what you got to
(24:35):
do to get through.
But I wanted to just touch onthat piece, like if someone is
listening and you're dealingwith that, those are signals,
triggers, they're an invitationto look deeper if you have the
capacity.
Not everybody has the capacityat that moment.
I really am a big believer thatour timing is perfect.
(24:56):
We're going to find what weneed to find when we're meant to
find it.
But if you are struggling withthings like that and you're
having to deal with all of itand you are doing these
protocols that are helpingbecause you need to, that's okay
.
And also you can still do thiswork at the level that feels
(25:19):
safe for you, and the more youopen up to it, the more you will
open up as well.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah yeah, safety begets safety.
Truly, it's like safetycapacity, safety capacity,
safety capacity.
And then it's just like you cansee so clearly and you're not
in that narrow fog anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, like, take the little steps.
Like it's okay to take thosesteps.
Like, for me, one of thereasons why I was finally able
to also wean off of medicationyears ago is because I started
doing really deep work on thisand it took a while.
It doesn't always have to, butfor me it did and that's okay.
You know what I mean.
(26:04):
Like, everyone has their owntimeline and for lots of reasons
that's just sort of kind ofwhere I was.
But the thing that is important,I think, to hear is that there
are these options.
There is an opportunity for youto really and, like you said,
not necessarily use the wordheal as an endpoint, but healing
(26:28):
as a journey.
I think is really importantbecause it is a step forward, it
is a step in a direction whereyou want to go.
I'm always talking about, youknow, your unconscious mind
really just wants to run theshow, because it's survival,
it's keeping you safe, itliterally only wants to keep you
alive.
It's its own job and so it'sour job to decide okay, I'm
(26:50):
going to step into the driver'sseat, you're going to get in the
back seat, we're going to workthrough this.
But it is a decision and youhave to be intentional and aware
of it.
So what are some of thesethings that we can do to
interrupt these patterns thatmight be a good starting point
for somebody.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Basically, yeah, there's so many, and I always
kind of like tailor it to thehuman.
You know, with measurement, sowe can measure our nervous
system and give it an input, orlike a tool or a strategy, and
then measure again.
And a really great and simpleway to do that is literally like
looking left and right.
(27:28):
And the reason that is isbecause when you then do a tool,
so say I say like let's do avisual reset where you cup your
hands over your eyes for 30seconds to a minute and then,
after you do that, you take aregulated breath and then you
look right and left again.
If your range of motion is morelike, if you can have more range
(27:51):
of motion, that means it's areally positive tool for you.
And the reason that is, and thereason that we use range of
motion, is because A we'removing beyond feelings, which is
in our logical, cognitivethinking brain, where our
subconscious patterns come intoplay.
You know, like people pleasingand fawning like, oh yeah, that
feels great, which is what Isaid all the time in therapy,
(28:12):
when really it didn't.
And so when we have more rangeof motion, it means we're less
braced, because when we moveinto a stress response, the
first thing we do is brace, sowe have more tension, which
equals less range of motion.
So it's a really great way tokind of like test your own tools
and, you know, do away with theones that are either negative
(28:36):
or neutral and just stick withthe ones that give you a
positive range of motion,because those are the ones that
are telling your nervous systemand giving signal.
I am safe.
Anything that's negative orneutral is not going to make a
change for you.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's really.
That's a good point.
That's so interesting too.
Like I also heard you, I wantto kind of like touch on just a
little bit about you know, yeah,we're talking about doing the
inner work, obviously for thebenefit of the person.
But you've said before I knowI've heard you say things like
when women regulate theirnervous systems, it changes our
(29:13):
culture, because we are also sohighly affected by not just our
families of origin and the waysthat we were brought up, but,
like the culture in generalaround us.
So what does that ripple effectlook like?
Because that, to me, is areally awesome conversation to
have, because a lot of womenwill not do this work.
(29:35):
They will, you know, choose tonot do this work because it
feels selfish, which is alsoprogramming but all kinds of
that stuff right.
But you can reframe that,because when you look outward
and you start to realize, oh, byme doing this work, it is
therefore going to do X, Y and Zfor everyone around me.
(29:55):
What does that ripple effectlook like?
Let's go there for a minute.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Oh, this one.
Like I can feel it in my heart,like I'm so passionate about
this because one person can makesuch a massive impact, because
that one human brings theirregulated self to every
conversation.
I can now sit with my13-year-old daughter at 10 pm on
a school night who's had afriend body shamed that day and
(30:23):
she's feeling the impact of thatand meeting her there where
before I wouldn't have had thecapacity at 10 pm to do that and
have those in-depthconversations.
I can also have thoseconversations from a place that
I'm not actually projecting myown wounds from my own childhood
bullying which used to comeinto play in the conversations
(30:46):
because my own fight would comein.
I'd be like, why is that kidsaying that?
Like they can't say thosethings to you, like don't take
that right.
And that's totallycounterproductive.
It overshadows the entireexperience.
It doesn't allow my kids tofeel safe and seen and move
through their own emotions inthat moment.
(31:09):
Instead, my own wounds andprojections are projecting onto
them.
Instead, my own wounds andprojections are projecting onto
them so I can see it in my kids,you know, and how they even
carry themselves throughout theworld.
My daughter shared with me theother day and like I might get
emotional about it.
But there was a child byherself on the playground and
her and her friend said, hey,let's go see if she's okay.
(31:31):
And the child was really upsetand my daughter said do you need
a hug?
And she hugged her and she saidmom, I could feel her like
sobbing and I went to let go andshe pulled me closer and I was
like I needed an Olivia.
You know, when I was a kid,those are the acts you know.
(31:51):
And then my son, same thing,meeting him where he's at, he is
highly sensitive.
He had a very traumatic birthwhich created a very hyperactive
stress response.
He was colic his wholechildhood, his whole infancy.
I wish I knew what I knew nowthen, yeah, now then.
(32:17):
And he's carried that with himand he'll say, like mom, can we
do some neurosomatic tools?
Or he'll notice when he wantsto do a wall push or a pillow
slam to deactivate all of theenergy that's in his body.
And then my husband who's thelast one on board, who's the
(32:39):
last one on board brings it inconversations now, and he even
speaks some of the language of,like the narratives that we have
, you know, that are happeningand that are protective, and
then we bring it into communityand, like each of us now are,
bringing it into the school,into our work, into our
leadership, into our friendships, and it's just such a gift.
And if we aren't doing that,then really we are just
(33:02):
mirroring and projecting our ownwounds onto each other over and
over again and harming humanity.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, period, literally Period.
I had to draw some huge no,it's truly.
It is Like.
That's literally it.
Like we are all.
There's so many people likehello on the internet just
walking around doing thatconstantly, because we all have
our own map of the world, we allhave our own experiences, we
all have our own programming and, if left to our own devices,
(33:35):
that unconscious mind is goingto keep running the show because
that's what it's built to doand it'll keep you in a reactive
state.
It just will, because it feelssafe, it's protective, it's like
oh my God, we have to survive.
That's literally it.
So when we do this kind of work,like, I always say this our
kids don't, they don't do whatwe tell them.
(33:57):
Right, they're not.
They're not going to do what wetell them to do, but they will
model and the better we are forourselves, the more work that we
do on ourselves and the moreregulated that we are, the more
regulated they're going to be,just because that is how it
works.
Like, literally they will.
They will pick up more of thatjust by us setting that stage,
(34:22):
setting the energy than anythingelse Like it's so much more
impactful.
So the modeling is a really,really big piece of it as far as
, like, the parenting of it.
But even in, just like you said,like out in the community, in
the schools and just everywhereyou go, I mean you can go into a
store and you could be in theworst mood, but if people are
(34:44):
smiling at you or someone's niceto you in the checkout or
whatever, it does shift yourstate, and so I know it's hard
to like sort of break out ofthat pattern.
But when you do, it's kind of asnowball effect and it's really
awesome when, because you canfeel it like you can feel it
(35:05):
like you're in more flow, thingsflow to you, like you are more
receptive to all the abundancethat you want and that's around
you.
But you're just, you're soclosed off to it.
Normally when you are living inthat that state of fight,
flight, nervous system,dysregulation, whatever you want
to call it.
So I think the best work thatyou can do is this kind of work,
(35:27):
because you are going to be abetter human parent partner
coach, human parent partnercoach, whatever it was, just by
design, and the ripple effect isreally big.
One person can really change.
So I hope that you guys reallyget that, because I know you've
seen that in your work.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, it's huge.
It's so huge, you know, likeone person can make a huge, huge
, huge difference.
It just multiplies, itmultiplies and multiplies, and
multiplies.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Well, tell people a little bit about how they can
find you if they want to lookmore into doing this kind of
work, and how you do this kindof work and where you like to
connect with people before wewrap up, and I'll make sure I
put all this in the show notesas well.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
So you can find me on beyondyourmindsetcom and also
on Instagram atkatherinespheresco, where I drop
lots of truth bombs and speakmy unfiltered truth, and that's
what I also love to help peopledo.
I've now finally found a way toblend my beautiful past life
that I burned down my marketinginto my present line of work,
(36:36):
and it's just such a beautifulebb and flow of past life and
present life in like the truestself-expression.
So Instagram and find me atbeyondyourmindsetcom.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, I love that and yeah, you definitely stand in
that.
I love the messaging on yourInstagram.
I don't know if it's partlythis work, coupled with the fact
that once you do hit 50 andover, you really do.
You're like I just don't careanymore, I'm back to say what I
(37:10):
want.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, and in a society where we were told to
like sit, still, don't use yourindoor voice, like use your
gentle little girl voice, it'slike no, no, this radical
rebellion.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, exactly that's what we need to say Exactly.
And I think it's reallyimportant too, because I have a
lot of women in my universe whotell me things like well, I want
to be professional or whatever,and I was like you can still be
professional and still beyourself like kind of the whole
vibe In general.
I really feel like it's kind oflike off topic, but not really.
(37:45):
I do feel like we are and havebeen moving into a much more
unapologetic space like that andI'm all for it, like I'm here
for it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
And like, truly, behind every professional power
suit is a human and we are allhumans and we all have our own
like quirks and things we liketo do and say, and when we're
showing up only in the powersuit in one place and not the
other, it's just like thisfragmentation and this mask and
like we can wear the power suitand still be the human behind
(38:20):
the power suit you know,Absolutely Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well, thank you so much for being here for having
this chat with me.
I could talk about this kind ofstuff all day, every day.
We could go like 12 layers deepwith this, but I really
appreciate you bringing thisenergy to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Thanks so much for having me.
It was great to chat with you.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Okay.
So I hope you guys got a lotout of that episode.
I know I did.
You know I always love talkingabout any of this.
Like I told her, I could talkabout this for hours and hours
and hours.
But I do want you guys to reallykind of dig into this somatic
piece of it.
You know I am not certified insomatics but because I was a
(39:02):
massage therapist years andyears ago, I've always been on
that side of the fence.
Basically, like you got to getyour body on board, because
everything is connected.
Everything is connected and wehold it in our bodies.
And so I know that from doingbody work on people in the past
(39:23):
and also getting my own bodywork done consistently over the
years, it's a very importantpiece of all of this for me.
We're not just, like you know,we don't want to just walk
around just with our heads.
We're attached to a body.
So you really do need toconsider all of that when you're
(39:44):
looking into it, and you know.
The other part of this too thatI want to just make sure you
guys hear is that, sitting inthe space of the
uncomfortableness a lot ofpeople don't want to deal with
it, can't deal with it, maybebecause of just environmental
things and all of that, Itotally get it.
But if you do have the capacityto look into it, if you do have
(40:08):
the capacity to start gettingcurious about I wonder what that
trigger is about, or I wonderwhy I am always in a reactive
state, then I feel like that isa perfect little invitation for
you to just take a step in thatdirection.
It can be a small step.
It can be reading a book, itcould be listening to this
podcast, it could be journalingabout it.
(40:29):
Open yourself up to it andyou'll be surprised.
Oh, it just sort of drops in.
I'm a big believer that we aremeant to find what we are meant
to find at exactly the righttime.
Like your, timing is alwaysperfect.
So if this is intriguing to you, I say just, you know, follow,
follow that inclination and lookinto it and see if there is
(40:53):
something to it for you.
And I hope, as always, thatthis episode was insightful and
that it made some sort of impactin your life.
And if it did, share it with afriend and let me know.
But in general, thanks againfor being here.
I love you guys.
I hope you have a fantasticweek ahead.
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