September 3, 2025 • 58 mins
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TODAY'S SHOW:
🎙️ My guest today Kate DeCoste proves that photographers can build successful high-end businesses in small towns by attracting clients from surrounding cities through strategic marketing and mindset work.
We chat all about:
• Creating a successful photography business in a small town by appealing to nearby larger cities
• Leveraging Google Business and SEO as primary client acquisition tools—99% of clients find Kate through Google
• Maintaining high-end pricing regardless of location—"your bills are the same amount" no matter where you live
• Developing a seamless client experience from initial contact through delivery
• Implementing automations to create high-touch service without constant manual work
• Networking strategically through community organizations to extend reach beyond local area
• Building confidence to put yourself out there despite small-town visibility challenges
• Providing clients with an experience where they feel truly seen and valued
• Creating a strong online presence with clear information about location and services
• Standing out through unique offerings that differentiate you from other photographers
Remember, you've got to show up if you want people to come. Get out of your head and take one small step today to move your business forward. People can't find you if you're not talking about yourself!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
your bills are just the same amount and you don't
have to be small just becauseyou live in a small town, that
you are high end and the peoplethat value what you do are going
to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Tried and True with a dash of woo, where
we blend rock solid tips with alittle bit of magic.
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here, so are
you ready to get inspired andhave some fun?
Let's dive in.
Hey friends, welcome back toTried and True with a dash of
(00:45):
woo.
I am your host, renee Bowen.
My guest today is Kate DeCosteof Kate DeCoste Photography,
based in Wahoo, nebraska.
Yes, that is the real name ofit, and I think it's so cute.
I've known Kate a long time.
We were both members ofsomething called we Are the
Scene years ago, which wasstarted by a group called
(01:07):
Seniors Ignite that I was a partof and an educator with, and
she was mainly a seniorphotographer at the time.
And now she does a lot ofheadshots and branding, and we
are talking today about a hottopic that a lot of
photographers will bring up,either inside of my communities
or coaching, which is I'm from asmall town.
(01:28):
How am I supposed to build ahigher end business in a small
town?
And Kate's done it.
She's done it since 2009.
She's done it really well andwe go into a lot of those
specifics about how you can,some marketing ideas and how to
make sure you create thatfoothold in your market, even if
it's small, but this is goingto be for you, regardless of
(01:51):
whether you're from a small townor not.
We talk a lot about the bestpractices right now that you can
use to just have people findyou in general, which is, hello,
what we need.
If you are in business and youwant to make money at this, you
got to be found.
So we do talk a lot aboutmarketing today, but also we dig
into some mindset as well,because it's my show and that's
(02:11):
just what we do here, so you'regoing to love it.
You're going to love Kate.
She's awesome.
Before she started photography,she wrangled backstage chaos as
a stage manager in New York Cityand in Milwaukee, and so now
she brings that same creativeenergy and organization and
sparkle to every one of hershoots and she is now launching
(02:32):
her own podcast called the OneBehind the Lens, with Kate
DeCoste, and that is a podcastfor photographers building bold,
beautiful businesses.
It's real talk, strategy,confidence boosts for creatives
ready to go from hobbyist tohigh end without the burnout,
which is awesome, and I've alsobeen a guest on her show too, so
(02:53):
it was great to chat with heragain and I know you're going to
love this conversation we have,so let's dive in.
Hey, kate, I'm so excited tochat with you here.
I was recently on your podcastthat's coming out and we will
get to that in just a little bit, but I get to see you again,
and today we're talking aboutsomething a little different.
You are from a very small town,which literally is called Wahoo,
(03:16):
nebraska, which I love, by theway.
Come on, that's just thecoolest thing ever.
But you've been in business fora while, so I want to ask you
first of all but you've been inbusiness for a while, so I want
to ask you first of all, howlong have you been in business
as a photographer and what'syour thing, what do you
specialize in, and how do youget business from other areas?
This is a big topic that a lotof photographers in my
(03:37):
communities have.
They're from these small towns,but it's hard for them to build
within that area or even likepull from outside of that area,
and so I know that a lot ofpeople are going to get a lot
from this conversation.
So anyway, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Thank you, I'm so excited, great, to be able to
see you again twice in, like youknow, a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Okay, so tell us a little bit.
What do you specialize in?
How long you been at this?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So I basically opened my.
Well, I didn't open the studio,but I started the photography
business in 2009.
And prior to that I did theater.
So I'll kind of get to that inthe sense of thinking big with
(04:36):
that.
And then I specialize.
I mainly really was doingseniors.
I'm doing more.
I feel like now I'm doing a lotmore headshots than seniors.
Um, but it's been.
It's still like that funtransition of it and I still do
seniors, but I feel like it justseems like I've been doing a
lot more with headshots.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I love, I love headshots.
Um, I do too.
I've been doing those sincelike 1999 on film.
So like it was like the firstthing that I kind of started
shooting, and because myhusband's an actor.
So like yes he was like hey,here's this camera.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I need some updated headshots.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's like the running joke in our friend group.
It's like, okay, you're anactor married to a photographer.
Like come on.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, that's like perfect.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
He's pretty spoiled.
Every five minutes he's likehey, so you want to run into the
studio and update someheadshots?
No, I actually do not want todo that today.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Thanks for asking.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, so you are able to do that where you live.
Tell us a little bit about your, your small town, like where
you're from.
What's?
What's the demographics?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Sure, sure.
So Wahoo is about, it's lessthan 5,000 people, um, and we're
really like right smack in thedab between Omaha and Lincoln.
So really like, either way, ifyou go south you're going to hit
Lincoln in 30 minutes andyou're going to go the opposite
direction, north, you're goingto see Omaha in like 30 minutes
as well, depending on where yougo in those cities, but you're
(06:20):
going to hit them at that point.
So we're lucky in that sensewhere growing because I
literally grew up, born, raisedhere left came back but it was
easy, it was nice because youcould just run into Lincoln, run
into Omaha.
So I feel like that's kind ofhow my clients are.
(06:43):
When they're in Lincoln orOmaha they're like, oh, wahoo,
that's not, that's not far to go.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's kind of how like I grew up in a one traffic
light town.
I don't know the population, butit ain't big and you know, yeah
, that's why I grew up Like myfront yard is a cane field
backyard.
Well, front yard is theMississippi river, backyard is
the cane field, like literallyin the middle of nowhere, deep
South Louisiana, and it's kindof similar though, like 30
minutes to Baton Rouge, 40 ish,you know, 30 to 40 minutes
(07:13):
depending on what route you take, and like about 45 minutes to
an hour to new Orleans.
So it's kind of similar to thatway.
So, all right, when you started, what were some of the things
first of all that you did tomarket your business, kind of
just in the area, and then sortof what made you realize like,
(07:33):
oh you know, I'd like to be ableto pull in from these other
areas as well, and how did youdo that?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So I really, just when I first started, I was just
like anyone.
I was like, do you want a photoshoot, free photo shoots for
everyone, omar, or even asmaller town, just to build the
(08:03):
portfolio.
And then I do think that helpedwith the whole word of mouth of
you know, building and makingrelationships.
But then when I was like, okay,for a small town, we actually
have a couple of usphotographers that are high end
and which is kind of like alwayspeople are always like really I
(08:27):
figured you would be like.
You know, if you're in thatsmall town, you're the only you
know photographer and I'm nope.
And also I've always thoughtbigger and that's why it's kind
of funny to be back here,because when I was in high
school I was like I'm gonna getout, be back here, because when
I was in high school I was likeI'm going to get out and I did,
(08:52):
and then the fact that I cameback and stayed is mind-blowing.
But here it is.
So I've always thought biggerand I knew there were people in
these bigger cities that notthat my hometown people aren't
going to spend money, but thereare people in these bigger
cities that value what I do andthey will travel or they'll pay
(09:14):
me to travel to them that smalldistance.
So doing the SEO on Google hasreally changed really everything
I have on my form.
When you contact me on mywebsite, there's a question that
says when did you hear aboutKate?
(09:34):
And I would say 99% of the timeit's Google, nice.
And so that I'm like, okay,that's true, that's a real thing
.
Yeah, it is, it's, it's realand I try to do the google my
business like it's a free toolreally where I can, you know,
post little things that I'mdoing.
(09:57):
And you know, I try to do thatas much as I'm doing my social
media part, because I thinksometimes we get so honed in
which I love social media, Ilove doing TikTok, I love doing
Instagram, but I don't reallyhear of anybody saying they're,
you know, they're not writing onthe form.
I heard you from TikTok orInstagram, so I have to remember
(10:20):
like to use that Google mybusiness and that's that's
really where I feel like I'mgetting these people from
Lincoln and Omaha to find me.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's awesome and such a good reminder.
I kind of feel like I'm alwaysharping on that.
So thanks for sure.
Yeah, it's something I'm alwaystalking to photographers about,
and I feel like like when Istarted in like 2007, it was it
was a thing where I was like,okay, I need to learn SEO, and
(10:52):
my brain immediately shut downyes, but I knew it was important
, right, and so I feel like wekind of heard about it then and
then we're hearing about it now,but like I feel like there was
a span of time where people werelike you know, social media,
social media, seo is not reallywhatever like not as many people
(11:13):
, let's say not as manyphotographers, were probably as
focused, at least from what Icould see.
I feel like people kind of likefell off that wagon a little
bit or stopped thinking that itwas that important and they
weren't blogging.
And then a whole, like you know,people aren't reading blogs,
and I was always like it's notabout that, it's not about
whether people are reading yourblogs, it's about the SEO.
(11:35):
So I'm really glad that that'sworking for you and that you can
actually see where it's comingfrom, too, cause that's really
important to be able to trackfor sure.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely like, if you don't
have something on your form thatjust says where did you hear
about me?
Like just add that, becausethat I didn't always have that
on there and when I did, it wasa game changer, you know,
sometimes you do have it where,like somebody else, you know
it's a word of mouth, but um,which is night, you know, then
you can reach out to thosepeople as well, um, but yeah,
it's definitely, and like goingwith the blog too, like yes,
like I don't think I don't knowif people are are really reading
(12:13):
my blog, you know all the time.
But that's another thing that Iknow is helping.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And, um, yeah, I do push out at least once a month
is my goal.
If I do more, yay.
But my once Google my Business,but I try and automate it as
much as possible and then I tendto sort of forget about it for
a little bit, but it is reallyimportant.
And the blogging just in and ofitself, if you're just using
SEO and the way that it's meantto be used, that's a really big
(12:58):
thing.
So it's really.
I've always had that on my formtoo, just as a side note, just
like where'd you find me?
Cause I you know, yeah, we candig into it.
We can look at all our you knowsome analytics online and kind
of see, like, maybe, wherepeople are coming from, um,
inside of your Google analytics.
But it's way easier if peoplejust tell you that on the forum.
So, like you know, add that ifyou guys don't have that already
(13:20):
, it's a really good indicator,cause it's very important that
we're looking at, like, wherepeople are finding us.
A lot of my clients do find meon TikTok and Instagram, do they
?
Yeah, I get a lot.
Usually the teenagers will findme there, but I get a lot from
Google, like I would Google'sthe top from of like where I get
my leads from, and then I wouldsay TikTok is right behind that
(13:43):
, and then Instagram, and thenPinterest, which is really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, I don't ever have anyone saying that they,
but I feel like my Pinterestaccount, I'm always like where
are all these people like youknow, where they're checking
things out, and kind of likeTikTok, where I'm like, well
they're, they're there andthey're seeing it, and I don't
know if maybe they're going toGoogle then later.
I don't know, but yeah it's allimportant Definitely.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So, okay, getting back to how intentional,
basically, were you and are younow in that?
So like, yeah, we're talkingabout doing the Google my
Business and stuff like that,but, like you obviously know who
your client is.
And just kind of a little sidenote too, like you were
mentioning, it's not that peoplein your area don't want
(14:32):
high-end photography.
It's a numbers game, right?
Really, at the end of the day,like there's only so many people
in the town you know what Imean, right?
Yes, yes, so that's a big partof it is like okay, well, and
that's something I hear fromphotographers a lot.
First of all, it is 100%possible to build a high end
business in the small town Likeyou're.
(14:52):
You're a proof of that.
I have tons of proof of that inmy communities.
It definitely can and doeshappen, and you also need to be
doing what you're doing.
You also need to be likeexpanding into these other areas
and being intentional about it.
So are you doing a lot ofin-person marketing as well?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yes, and that's always that's hard for me, like
I don't.
I mean, I just you know, it'sjust that thing where you're,
just you know.
If you know who I am, because,again, it's small town, you
might know who I am.
But what's funny if you sayingthat is, I just was at a store
in Omaha, like a clothing, aclothing store, and they didn't.
(15:33):
The person checking me outdidn't recognize me by my face.
But when I gave my credit cardshe saw my name and she was like
are you that photographer?
And I was like well, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I know I love when that happens.
It's always when I give thecredit card.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's so funny, yes, where they see, it's like they
see the name and it all clicksand maybe they do recognize your
face, but they're not exactlyyou know exactly sure with like
TikTok and stuff.
So I've been better at thein-person of, especially like
I'm part of differentcommunities in Lincoln, like I'm
(16:15):
part of the Junior League andthings like that.
So I try to be a little bitmore of like this is you know,
I'm not just Kate at the JuniorLeague, but I'm a photographer
more of like this is you know,I'm not just Kate at the junior
league, but I'm a photographerand you know, especially like
doing, like branding or you know, those women that I'm around.
So, yeah, I definitely, like Isaid, it's hard to put yourself
(16:36):
out there, but it's definitelysomething that I think it's not.
I don't feel like it's cringyat all where people will be like
, oh, you're a photographer.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, so, yeah, it's important, though I think and
that's something that I talk tomy clients about a lot and I'm
an introvert, I don't love doingthe in-person stuff, like I
don't, I don't like going to thenetworking events- I don't want
to write especially at thispoint in my life like, at the
end of the day, I don't want to,but I do want my business to
thrive and survive Right, and soI just try and approach it and
(17:14):
I try and help clients approachit, especially fellow introverts
, in the way that it's like, ok,you can do this in small pieces
, you can take the baby steps.
I'm not going to go out thereand try and schedule all of
these extroverted events in oneweek for myself.
That would burn me out and makeme feel really icky.
But I can schedule one everycouple of weeks or something
(17:39):
like that.
You got to just know yourcomfort level with that, I think
.
And if you have a buddy thatyou can do it with, that's
always a little bit easier too.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I feel like if I had you just need that one
person, just that one buddy togo with and yeah, there's a few
things that I can do that I'vebeen telling myself in Omaha
there are some in person justgetting together with other
business people and I'm like Ireally need to just, yeah, just
(18:10):
just do it, and I need to justget a buddy and and go.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It really does help a lot.
But and also just kind ofbreaking it down into small
pieces like that, don'toverwhelm yourself into trying
to have to do all the things.
But I feel like I mean, I feellike that's just important for
all of us, all of usphotographers, anybody who's
really running a business,especially if you're trying to
pull in people from the area orsurrounding areas to be present
(18:36):
somewhat in the community.
It's not your thing Like it'sall good, but you do need to
have some of that on your radar,because that word of mouth,
especially for those of us whoare more higher end and charge
more right Than the averageperson, that is kind of a big
(18:57):
piece of it.
I have found for sure.
So, yeah, like people mightfind you on Google, but also
people tell me this all the timetoo, which I think is really
interesting.
Well, they might find me onGoogle, but then, if they kind
of then from Google go to mysocials, they kind of see, oh,
this person also knows thisperson, and then they have more
points of reference and touchpoints with me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You know what I mean.
Oh yeah, yes, well, yeah, it'sthat.
Yeah, the, just that kind ofclarification and being like oh,
they know, yeah, yeah.
Yes, yes.
Well, if they like them, thenexactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And then they get to kind of go down that rabbit hole
of all your content and findout, and so, yeah, I think all
those touch points are superimportant.
Okay, so I want to also touchreally quickly on pricing.
Just a little bit, not a lot.
I just do hear a lot ofphotographers asking me and just
kind of voicing concerns about,well, I can't really charge
(19:53):
that much because of where Ilive, right, like, because of
the demographics in my area,let's say, the small town not
saying you're small town is likethis.
But a lot of photographers wholive in small towns will say
this is not a wealthy community,this is not a community that's
going to spend a lot of money.
I'm having a hard time, I canpull from other places and
that's great, but I do want tostart pulling from my community.
(20:16):
Anyway, all that to say.
What would you say to aphotographer who says I can't
charge that much because ofwhere I live.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's funny that you say that because there is where
times and when, especially whenI first started out, where
people after I was doing youknow the free things and then I
was really like, okay, I want tomake this a business where
people they would almost be like, well, that you know, this is
Wahoo.
You can't charge that amount ofmoney.
(20:45):
And I'm'm like you pay basicallythe same amount for a haircut
here than you probably do inomaha groceries here probably,
or probably more, because it's asmaller, you know smaller for
sure it's probably going to bemore.
But I always just say, like inmy head, and what I want you
know I don't say this to clients, but like say in my head and to
other photographers is yourbills are just the same amount
(21:08):
and you know you don't have tobe small just because you live
in a small town, that you arehigh end and you're and the
people that value what you doare going to pay for it, because
you might be living in a townthat has, in every town town,
you're gonna have people thatmaybe they can't, they truly
(21:30):
cannot afford what you do, butyou are gonna find people that
do and they might not want topay for it, but then they're
going on, like you know, a bigvacation.
That's what they value.
They might not valuephotography.
So I always just say, likethere's, you have to value
(21:51):
yourself and they will come.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, no, it's true that's such a big piece of it
and that's the mindset piece ofit, right, like so you kind of
mentioned too about it's hard toput yourself out there or maybe
, like you know, like the fearof being seen, or like,
especially sometimes when somany people know you in a small
area, it can feel even moreintimidating, like, oh, I don't
(22:15):
want to, like you know, putmyself out there.
Let's say, like show up onsocial in a certain way or
whatever.
That might feel a little ickybecause, like, everybody that is
on your feed is like knows youlocally or, you know, knows you
personally.
And I always tell people likeyou just kind of have to, like
you have to let that go likeeven if that means making those
(22:37):
people unfollow you like thosearen't your clients.
At the end of the day, if you'reworried about you know like
what people close to you aresaying, but at the end of the
day too, like that's so much ofour own stuff, right, like
anytime that comes up, that'sreally your own stuff.
We're just projecting whatother people are going to say.
So how have you and I know youhave like a theater background
(23:00):
as well so like, how has thathelped you in all of this?
How has your mindset helped youin building all of this and
kind of getting past, you knowthat that ick factor as well.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well, I feel like it I.
It is hard because I still doit and I have to tell myself I'm
47 and I'm like you, have tojust move on and it's okay that
not everybody likes you, andit's you know, and it and it's
you know.
if they talk about you, thengreat, it's all word of mouth is
good right um, but the theateraspect I think helps for me that
(23:39):
I just had to keep moving onand you can't, you just have to.
Not everybody's gonna like whatyou see.
Like you might go to a show andnot like what you see, but you
might go, but I didn't reallylike that show, but I really
liked that part of it and so Ijust have to like think about it
(24:00):
in in that sense and I reallydo think theater and living like
I lived in New York for a while, that did give me like a
tougher skin, and not sayingthat, living in a small town, if
you hear about somebody maybegoing to somebody else in your
town and you have to be like, ohwell, they don't like me, they
(24:22):
like they wanted to go toso-and-so, and I just have to
remember they might, might notlike, maybe they don't like my,
my style, they like anotherperson, another photographer,
style, um, and just let it goand again just say it's just how
, how it is, and you just haveto keep moving and you can't
dwell in it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yes, and I don't know if I'm really answering your
question.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Very well, but I feel like I just went into like a
little circle there.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So there's that running joke, right, you know,
(25:08):
online or whatever, you see likeanyone running a small business
, not even just photographersyou get into it, especially if
you're, you know, running acreative business.
You get into it because youwere probably told you were good
at it and like, oh my gosh,okay, I can make money at this.
And then, before you know it,oh, that means I actually have
to market, oh, that means Iactually have to like be, you
(25:29):
know, showing up and doing that.
And so you kind of get yourselfinto something sometimes where
you're like I didn't realizethat I had to actually, you know
, be the face of my, my business.
But in what we do, the brandingis so much a part of that,
right Like, and we, we are ourbrand when we are out in the
community or whatever.
It's like when you run abusiness and it's like you, this
(25:49):
is you, yes, yes, you're thebusiness, especially if the
business has your name RightLike.
So, like, you know, right, mostof us have, and it's like OK.
So what that means for me is,you know, not that I have to be
out and like presenting likethis perfectly curated stuff.
No, because that's not who I amreally.
(26:11):
So, yeah, there's that level ofyou know, wanting to be
professional, which is great,but also being authentically
yourself, because that'sultimately what people are going
to be attracted to, right, likethey're attracted to real
people and not fake stuff.
And so I know we hear that alot and that word authenticity
(26:32):
gets thrown around a lot, but itreally is true, like it's a
very important aspect of themarketing is being the most you
that you can be.
That's like one of my coremissions in what I do is like I
just want people to just be them, like the most you that you can
be, because that is when youcreate that like ultra clear
(26:52):
resonance, that's like laserfocused, right.
Like it's not about being theloudest in the room, it's about
being the most focused, the mostlike linear, if that makes
sense Right Like yes.
Like, yes, I just kind of see itin my I see the visual in my
brain, but it's having a hardtime like coming out into words.
But you know like, instead oflike wide, wide loudness, it's
(27:12):
like laser focused, because whenyou are, you know speaking to
the right people and you knowwhat your brand is about, then
you can do that so much moreeffectively.
So what have you doneintentionally to create like a
higher end brand experience foryour photography business, even
without being in a big city?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I think the experience of it, of like from
start to finish when you fillout well, really, even when you
look at the website like I justhad a client the other couple of
weeks ago and he was like Ichose you because when I looked
at your website it wasn't stiff,it wasn't, and I was like, oh
well, thank you, where I waslike okay, well, that's good to
(27:56):
know.
Like he was like you were, youlooked fun and he wanted more of
a casual, like he'd lastheadshots he had.
He was like I was.
Just it was just very stiff.
And so I feel like juststarting where people can see
who you are, like you were justsaying, then they can start this
.
It's starting there and thenwith the website of just making
(28:17):
things easy to find you know, todefine me, to get in contact
with me because that's anotherthing people will tell me is
like it's just been easy tocontact you and get everything
set up to the shoot and and thenafterwards delivering still
you're there.
Still it's not just like theshoot ended and we're done, it's
(28:41):
still the follow up of thankyou, for you know, this was so
awesome to have you in thestudio or on location up until
you're delivering your prints oryour digitals, I feel like just
keeping literally from wherethey find me, either on Google,
my website, to that.
Deliver is what really setsapart from a high end to not.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah yeah, that makes sense sets apart from a high
end to not yeah yeah, that makessense.
It's all about that high touchalong the way, experience, like
that client journey, right, likeso I feel like a lot of
photographers.
They might start the work ofyou know these, these branding
foundations, let's say, of likehow they want their business to
look and feel to their clientsand they may even do their
(29:28):
target client work.
But then what about the rest ofthat process?
What about that entire journeywith your client?
Where do they come in?
How do you leave them?
What are all those touch pointsalong the way?
That's a really, really big partof it and if you are running
like a higher end business, justin general, that is a big piece
(29:49):
of it.
Is like making people feelreally taken care of, really
seen, and, you know, ideally,for me that looks like being
able to do that with automationsand not necessarily having to
like hold their hand physicallythrough that process, right, is
that what you, how you approachit as well, like this automation
(30:10):
, crms, things like that.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yes, and I, you know, I really just got into the
automations a few years ago andI don't know why I didn't start
it a lot like right away.
I think it was that thing oflike what do I, you know?
And it's like no, this is, yes,doing it and sitting down and
thinking through and getting thewording and getting everything
down.
Yes, it's going to take you alittle bit of time, but then
it's like oh yeah, they're goingto get their reminders, they're
(30:38):
going to get their prep guide,all of those things.
They're going to get it all,but you're not sitting there
three days prior or whatevergoing.
Do I have to send that?
Did I send?
What did I send them?
Like, you know that they'regoing to, they're going to have
it all and that they can alwaysreach out to you if you know, if
(31:00):
they need to.
But I feel like, with theautomations and as long as you
have, I don't think it needs tobe like super wordy but
intentional, like we've beensaying, like the word we've been
using, but it's intentional forthem, easy again, for you know,
even if it's their invoice orwhatever, it's just an easy.
Oh, this is what I need to doand I also just approach things
(31:22):
like how I would want something.
So think of it that way too.
If you're trying to start outand go I don't know how to do
this Well, how would you want tobe in this experience, on the
other side of it?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, that's a big piece of it.
You have no idea how manywebsites I will go to because I
see a lot of photographywebsites, whether people are
inquiring about things in my DMSor inquiring about coaching or
something and I'll always wantto do a little bit of research
on the person before I talk tothem and I go to these websites
and a lot of photographers arenot even like.
(31:57):
I just want to mention this andmake sure we highlight it.
The whole ease of getting intouch with you, like there's a
lot of times I have gone to awebsite.
First of all, I couldn't findthe person's name.
There's been multiple times I'vegone to a photography website
where it's not their, their.
Their name is their businessname, right, and I'm trying to
find out who they are like, whattheir name is.
(32:17):
I can't find it anywhere, noteven on the contact page.
There's no about page, alsowhere they're located.
That's not anywhere on there.
Like that's a huge thing, youguys.
So like if you're listening andyou're either just starting out
or you're revamping your siteor whatever you're like
reworking some stuff, make surethat that's like right on the
site.
Like people know who you are,they know where you're located
(32:40):
and what areas that you serve,like if you do go outside of
your area, and, um how to get intouch with you.
Make it easy for them to beable to get in touch with you,
like multiple times, like notjust one button, you know
there's got to be multipleopportunities for people and put
a phone number.
Like I know, like not a lot ofus like to be on the phone, I
(33:03):
get it, but I have a Googlebusiness number.
Like you know, I've had it foryears, right, and it's just the
easiest way to do it and you caneven get texts on that number,
which I love.
So you gotta, you gotta, havethat stuff up there, like guys,
if you're not doing that, likeyou're just literally not even
doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So Right, well, make it easy, yes.
And also, if you are someonelike me who is in a smaller
community and or in anycommunity that you're, but you
want to reach others, Idefinitely have your location,
because I'm with SEO or I'mpushing where I'm trying to
reach people in other thanthey're like you know, I have
(33:41):
had where people are like, oh,you're in Wahoo, ok well, and
they still will come to me, butyou want to Wahoo Okay Well, and
they still will come to me, butyou want to make sure.
So, like once someone said thatto me a long time ago I like
literally on every page of mywebsite, on the bottom, it
literally says where to findKate, and then it's a map and it
has my studio address.
(34:02):
All of that because I don'twant anyone to think I'm in
Omaha or Lincoln and be like,well, great, I can just go five
minutes and it's like, oh no,it's going to be, it's going to
for them, it'll be a little bitof an afternoon or a morning, so
yeah, yeah, it's similar to mebecause I'm about 35 miles north
(34:22):
of LA.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
So and LA is huge, obviously, right, right, well,
you know my studio isn't in LA.
So in LA is huge, obviously,right, right, well, you know my
studio isn't in LA.
If people are coming to me, ifthey want to come to me, for
seniors is not as as importantnecessarily because I'm doing so
much location work with that.
It's, it's most, it's alllocation, and so I go to them.
However, they do come to me forhair and makeup here and
(34:47):
headshots and branding, you knowhere.
So that's a really big piece ofit is that you want to make
sure that's really, really clearfor people, just in general, so
that you guys get found faster.
Like, just make it easy onpeople.
Just don't overthink it, like Ifeel like just a lot of us,
especially with us creativebrains, right, like we just tend
to overthink it and then weshut down.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yes, yes, just a lot of us over, especially with us
creative brains, right like.
We just tend to overthink itand then we shut down.
Yes, yes, yes.
And I feel like too, and I wasa stage manager, so I was always
on the back end of things, andso it's been just new for me
really to be like not just onthe contact page to have my
photo, but to kind of reallypeople want to know who you are
and I've had to be like okay, onmy homepage I'm going to put my
photo and obviously on thecontact page, and now I actually
(35:36):
have it on my blog page andpeople they do, they want to see
you and again, I'm the same way.
I want to see who I'm looking at.
So many people come to me forlike LinkedIn headshot.
You know they're like I justneed a quick LinkedIn because
people want to see you know,because we're at that time where
everybody wants to see you.
So I always say that too wherestart putting your face?
(35:58):
And all of the other things wejust talked about.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
But on the homepage.
Yeah, absolutely I agree, and Iknow that that's not most of us
, that's not our comfort zone,cause, like we're photographers,
we prefer to be behind thecamera.
But you're, you're so right,like people really need that
touch point and you just want tomake it as seamless as possible
for people, you know, I mean,just that's really what it's
(36:24):
about, okay, so I want to kindof move into another little
mindset question that I thinkit's super important.
What do you think is a beliefor a rule right that you've
broken in your business thathelped you grow faster?
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I know Throwing, you throwing you for a loop there,
yeah, like ooh.
Well, I do think, going back towhen I joined, we Are the Scene
and with senior photography, Ifeel like that's when people
were like, oh, that's when thespecializing of seniors kind of
(37:04):
came in with doing that anddoing the challenges that we had
monthly.
And I don't anymore have amodel team, but for years had a
model team and having them dothose shoots and getting that
out there and for them to talkabout it and to put it out on
social media and to see that Iwas doing something different
(37:28):
than what you might think of asenior photo would be and that,
yes, that was the modelingprogram.
But hey, you can still do this.
If you really want to have goldleaf on your face, or whatever
you know, for part of yoursenior session, we can totally
do it.
That, I feel like, broke themold a little bit in my I feel
like in my area and I don'treally feel like there were very
(37:51):
many photographers doingmodeling programs at that time
either.
So that kind of put me outthere and it definitely helped
again because I was just reallystarting out.
That definitely pushed me tobreak the mold from all the
other photographers.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, standing out is so important.
Standing out.
I could not think.
Yeah, I mean and that's how youknow, that's how Kate and I met
was through Seniors Ignite.
We were at the scene.
Like you know, being involvedin groups like that can be a
really great opportunity, notjust to find like-minded friends
and photographers who are kindof doing, you know, the same
(38:28):
thing, but also, like you said,to expand outside of your area
and get noticed in a differentway.
You know it is, but it's aboutgetting noticed for being
different.
And now, now, it's even moreimportant.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, I was just going to say that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Because there's so many people like just the sheer
numbers of people, and I'm notone of those people who's like,
oh my God, the market's sosaturated.
No, I think that the fact thatit's saturated is a good sign.
It means that there's a demandthere, and I'm also a big
believer in abundance mindset,that there's more than enough
for everybody.
There doesn't need to be anygatekeeping or whatever because,
(39:06):
like you said earlier, you'rejust a different kind of
photographer.
People are going to find whothey're looking for.
What's meant for you is alwaysgoing to be for you.
I really believe when you arestanding in that resonance, when
you are putting out a veryclear signal of who you are and
who you want to serve and whatyou do, your people will come.
Like you said earlier, like youbuild it, they will come, and
(39:28):
that's what that's about.
Yeah, it's just so important tobe zigging when people are
zagging or whatever that sayingis Right.
Or like it's Seth Godin alwayssays, you know, being that
purple cow, like what's going to?
Oh, yeah for sure.
So that's good.
I'm glad you brought that up,because a lot of people are
always thinking about, like,well, how am I going to do that?
(39:48):
Okay, well, what isn't beingdone?
Right, like I always tellpeople like what is something
that lights you up that maybe noone else is doing?
Or just kind of get creative,do a brain dump about some
things, or use Chats to be easyfor your brain dump.
Now, whatever that is Right,right, I'm up with something a
little different.
And uh, and really stand in it,stand in the confidence of like
(40:15):
yeah, this is, this is adifferent thing.
So, um, and I know you don't doa team anymore because you're
not doing as many seniorsanymore, but just in general,
you've always kind of talkedabout too and you've always sort
of like led with this, helpingpeople feel confident and seen
in your photos.
So like, how do you think thatcomes across when people find
you on Google, when people findyou on your website or anything
(40:36):
like that?
You know, let's say Google.
When people find you on yourwebsite or anything like that,
you know, let's say people, somesomebody's reaching out to you
for a headshot or branding.
Um, I know we've been talkingabout branding and how important
it is to be authentic in all ofthat, but what are some of the
ways that you help people dothat?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well, I feel like you know, everybody wants like,
even if you're you are anintrovert and there might be
days where you're like, oh, Idon't want to talk to anybody,
or whatever.
But we do as humans.
I feel like we, literally wewant to be seen Like when
someone asks me, hey, how's yourday going, I want them to
actually truly ask me that and Itruly want them to actually
(41:16):
truly ask me that and I trulywant, if I'm going to ask you,
hey, how are you doing today?
I don't want to that to say,because that's what you're
supposed like, that's polite andthat's what we're supposed to
say when we see somebody.
I truly want I don't you know.
And I mean if you say, oh, I'mokay, I mean, but if the way you
say it, then I'm going toprobably know if you really are
(41:36):
okay or not.
Yeah, but I just feel like weall, especially now, I mean, I
think, with social media,everything, we're all saturated
with all sorts of craziness andour political environment is
crazy, which it doesn't matterwhich way.
You know where you are, whereyou stand on things, but it's a
world of chaos right now.
(41:57):
So when you come in to thestudio or I'm shooting with you
on location, either a senior ora headshot client, I truly want
you to feel seen, and not justbecause I'm photographing you.
Yes, I'm going to, you're beingseen in my camera and but I want
(42:18):
that day to be the best, thebest time.
And you know, maybe things arenot going very well right now or
you know, whatever it is, butin that hour or three hours,
whatever it was, you've kind offorgot and you know you just had
a great time.
And it's kind of the same withme, like you know, sometimes
(42:39):
when I'm doing a shoot and Imight have like the day before
or even an hour before, I'm likeoh, maybe.
I got some not so great news orwhatever, but when you have
someone in and I have a greattime with you, you know, at
least for that hour or whatever,I felt seen and felt like you
know.
At least for that hour orwhatever, I felt seen and felt
like you know things were okay.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, no, that is such a good point because I
cannot tell you and I am soguilty of this myself, but it's.
I think this is like auniversal photographer thing and
maybe maybe an introvert thing,I don't know.
But like I've heard so many oflike my coaching students say
this, just like anybody in mycommunities, and I know
(43:19):
firsthand, I've definitely gonethrough this where it's like I'm
just not feeling it forwhatever reason.
Right, like I'm like, oh my God, like I don't like maybe I'm
just a little burnout, MaybeI've just gotten, you know, been
shooting too much or whatever.
I don't feel like going.
I don't, I don't want to do ityou.
I don't feel like going, Idon't, I don't want to do it you
know, obviously that's not anoption unless it's right.
(43:39):
Sometimes it's raining and I'mlike, yes, but um most of the
time not you know, because itjust means you have to
reschedule and that's anightmare in and of itself.
But there's that thing of likeokay, I don't, I'm not feeling
this today, but then you go andthe minute the client walks in
the door, everything is fine,everything's good.
It's like there's something tosay about that and I think it
(44:02):
really has a lot to do with like, first of all, when you're
doing something that you reallylove and it does light you up
yeah, there are going to be daysI think that you're like okay,
I'm just tired.
I don't know if I feel likedoing this, like you said, like
there could be a lot going on inthe world or in your family
life.
Obviously, like, things aregoing to happen, life is going
to life and you're not going tofeel it sometimes.
(44:24):
But the minute we start workingwith our clients and it just
clicks like something, it's likea switch turns on and it's not
about you anymore, not them, butat the same time, like you said
, you're getting filled up somuch because of the energy
exchange that's happening and ifthat's not like a true
(44:46):
indicator of the fact that we'rejust literally balls of energy
walking around in human bodies.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I don't know what is like.
Honestly Right, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
It's like we're just balls of energy like bouncing
off of each other and you cantell sometimes your energy does
not bounce well with someoneelse's energy and it's a little
bit of a friction, but not withmy clients.
Honestly, even though myclients may be very different
from me obviously they're comingfrom maybe a different walk of
life, different backgrounds.
There's something about it thatjust we gel and then all of a
(45:13):
sudden I'm like in it and I justfeel really lit up by helping
them feel like the best versionof themselves, and I know that
that's kind of what you talkabout as well.
So I just wanted to kind oftouch on that for a second,
because I feel like it'suniversal, that photography goes
through this.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It's like the running joke, right?
Okay, before we wrap up in asecond, I do want to talk about
your podcast that's coming up,um, and just a couple of
questions about that, cause I'malways always interested in,
just in general, I love podcasts, but like, what motivated you
to do it and all that?
I want to kind of get there.
But before we do that, I alwaysdo like to and I kind of
(45:57):
touched on that for a secondthere with the whole energy
thing but what is something thatyou do that would be considered
woo or mindset or something notstrategy-related, let's say, to
your business that helps youdaily?
Speaker 1 (46:11):
kind of do your thing I feel like probably the
biggest thing that I probably doevery single morning is I have
to.
I literally have to have.
I'm not one of those peoplethat can just get up and get
ready and go to work and like I,you know, and I probably with
theater and things like that, itwas kind of the same way Like I
(46:33):
feel like I, just I just, andas I get older, I have to have
where I get up and I have to.
It doesn't matter if I'mgetting, you know, I have to be
somewhere at eight o'clock inthe morning.
I have to get myself to get upearlier.
So I have time to just sit inthe quiet with and I love coffee
, so like with a cup of coffee,and I might scroll, scroll some
(46:56):
social media or you know thingslike that.
But it's just, I can't just belike I gotta go and I've never
been, and I really have neverbeen a morning person, so maybe
that's, that's what it is, soI'm not raring to go right out.
Yeah, no no, Like I'm awake butI'm not on.
Maybe is all the way turned on.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
I get that I do.
It's so interesting to metalking to people about this
because you really need to knowthat about yourself.
I feel like, especially as asolopreneur, I feel like so many
of us, especially women, tendto try and like make ourselves
do something that we think weshould be doing, that other like
(47:39):
maybe some guru has told usthat we should be doing.
Let's say, right, like you know, I've got to have like this
full on 30 minute to 60 minutemorning routine where I go
outside, I put my feet on grass,I get my face in the sun and
then I breathe air and then I gofor a walk and then I meditate
and I'm like who has time forthat?
Right, right, right, no, andenergy.
(48:01):
So for me, I am one of thosepeople like I'm not one of those
people.
My husband's more like you,like he likes a slower morning.
This is very common, I feellike, for people who have a lot
going on in their brain.
Right, like he's a creative andhe also doesn't sleep as well.
So like that also comes intoplay and he likes just a little
bit slower start.
(48:22):
It's really hard for him tojust get up and go.
I'm kind of the opposite.
I'm like the get up and goperson, because if I'm having a
slow morning, that puts me in aslow state for the rest of the
day, which is really weird.
That's just how my brain works.
So I like to get up and eithergo immediately out for a walk or
(48:44):
get in the shower and get going.
You know what I mean.
Like I and then I will, I willtake my cause.
I'm very big on like what's your15 minutes of non-negotiables
every morning.
So if I go for a walk, that'smy non-negotiable because that's
my mindset.
Like I get a lot done on thatwalk internally, you know,
there's a lot of things thathappen.
(49:04):
So I'm either like sorting somestuff out, I'm planning my day,
or I'm just relaxing, like,honestly, it can be very
meditative for me, depending onwhat I'm listening to.
So like, if I do a walk, thenthat's my 15 minutes, but if I
don't go for the walk, then I'mgoing to take 15 minutes.
I'm going to do a little bit ofgratitude.
I might, you know, close myeyes, do a little bit of a small
meditation, but I'm talking 15minutes like nothing crazy,
(49:27):
nothing long, because then Ifeel like I can't get started if
I take that long if that makessense, you know yeah, but it's
really important for us to knowyeah, and honor, and honor it
and and be okay with it and beokay that you're not like your
(49:48):
friend, or yeah, they dosomething different.
It's okay, exactly.
Yeah, no, I I hear that all thetime from like one of the
things I'll do with peopleinside of coaching is help them
create that, because a lot oftimes you, you know, I'll ask
somebody like what, what do youlike to do in the morning?
Like what, what's your thing?
And so many people don't evenreally know and they're like I
don't know, I just do thisbecause I think I'm supposed to.
You know what I mean.
Like I just feel like I gotta,I just gotta get it done.
(50:10):
And then they're in a reactivestate all day because they've
kind of been on their phone fromthe get-go and all that stuff.
And so, again, human design, Ithink, does come into play.
Do you know your human design?
I do not.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
I mean, I hope you figure that out, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
And you just send me your birthday information, I can
find out for you.
But I think it's a really bigfactor, truly, and I'm not
certified in human design.
I have no desire to be.
It's a big topic.
People study it for years andyears, but I like to use it
inside of my coaching just sothat I can, like, help people.
Well, basically, it helps mecoach people better because it's
(50:48):
like almost like a cheat code.
I'm like, oh okay, this is yourenergy type, now I can.
I really can get a good pictureof how that person will learn,
how they access information,things like that, and I can
customize things better.
But also it's a really greatopportunity to help them learn
more about themselves and it's agreat self-awareness tool.
So I do think that that comesinto play a little bit too.
(51:10):
But that's just the book.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, I'm sure I will .
I feel like all of that, yeahit, all of it does just you know
, we were talking about the moonand all of that like, oh,
that's why I was probably beinglike that.
Yeah, totally Blame it on themoon.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
That's my that's my thing.
It's a damn full moon.
So you have a podcast launchingsoon, and so people are going
to be able to find you there.
I'm not sure when this episodeis going to air, but I'm on your
podcast.
So I'm not sure when it's goingto air, but it's probably more
than likely that this episodewill come out after that.
So yours is called the OneBehind the Lens.
(51:45):
Yes, what made you want tostart a podcast?
Speaker 1 (51:49):
So I have done a podcast with my chamber.
So I'm on the chamber board anda few years ago the president
and then I was the vicepresident we were talking about
like different things of likewhat can we do, and I was like
we should try to do.
Well, first we were going totry to do like let's do like a
(52:10):
little talk show thing, and Iwas like that.
And then I was like that's like, wait, no, let's not do that.
So then I was like, let's tryto figure out a podcast.
So, cut to a couple years laterwe've been doing a podcast for
the chamber, chamber chat withKate and Kat, if you ever want
to know what's happening inWahoo.
So we started that and I justreally, I just have really
(52:33):
enjoyed, enjoyed the platform.
I just have really enjoyed,enjoyed the platform.
So then I did try anotherlittle podcast with a friend
that we kind of just you know, Ifeel like sometimes when you do
it with other people it's hard,and so it kind of fizzled out
and it was more like a gen xtype thing and it was very fun
like she's a childhood friend ofmine but it just that was just
too hard.
So so I was like, okay, Ireally love this, I want to do
(52:56):
it and I need to do it by myself.
And I honestly didn't know whatI was going to talk about.
And I know people will be like,well, why wouldn't you know to
talk about photography?
But I was like, but that's noteverything that I love.
But I was like I think maybetalking to people that are in
there earlier, one to threeyears, maybe that would be a
(53:20):
good audience and more not whereI had to like research, because
I was thinking of, like, do Iwant to do something with crime?
And like that, Though we haveso many crime, you know crime
podcasts, but I love them all.
But then I was like, that's alot of research Are you going to
be able to do you know, likeyou can't, and not that I'm like
, oh, I can just talk aboutphotography and just, but I know
(53:44):
it, yeah.
So I felt like that was abetter fit.
And then getting to, you knowtalk to have you on and, you
know, have other photographerson, and having the conversation
part of it, too, has been beenfun.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Good, I'm glad that you think it's fun, cause I
think it's really fun.
I was surprised about how fun Ithink it is.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
You know, cause, like I was when I started, I was
like, okay, like I, I definitelywant to do this, but like, is
there going to be too much work?
Am I going to be?
able to do it All that stuffright.
That's stuff you got to thinkabout, but it's been super fun.
So I'm yeah, I'm really excitedto see where yours goes, and I
kind of had the same thing whenI started.
Mine was like, well, I am aphotographer, but I don't want
(54:30):
to just talk about photography.
I do a lot of other thingscoach other people, not just
photographers.
So I get that that sort of likeyou don't want to box yourself
in and really you don't have tolike no matter what you name it,
at the end of the day you'refree to talk about whatever the
hell you want to talk about yourshow, right, right, well, and
that's why I thought that too,where I was like especially like
(54:51):
you know, listening to yoursand listening to other you you
know where I'm like.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Okay, it's not literally, just here's your lens
and here you know like we cantalk about life, and yeah, yeah,
because we're more than justour business.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
You know, especially like us as anyone who's just
like a solopreneur, like kind ofdoing it on their own, whatever
.
You are the business, but youalso are human.
You're a human being and you'reout there living your life and
doing fun stuff and havingexperiences, and I think all the
conversations are important andyou never know who is listening
(55:25):
, who also feels seen and heard,and that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
So I'm excited for you.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
Thank you Well, so okay, tell people where you like
to connect with them before wewrap up.
I mean, I could chat with youfor for a long time about all of
this stuff, but we ain't gotall day.
So, we know the podcast iscoming out.
Do you know a release date?
It may be after this alreadycomes out, but say it anyway.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Well, August 4th will be the release day, so it's
coming up, um, but then they'llbe on there and, uh, you can
find it, um and then um.
So I'm sure yours will be inthat aug, like that sometime in
august time frame, um, and thenI'm on instagram, just k to
(56:12):
coast.
You don't have to put thephotography, just k to coast
facebook, tiktok, of course.
Yeah, um, and I'm k to coast onthat too.
So have to put the photography,just Kate to coast, facebook,
tik TOK, of course, yeah, andI'm Kate to coast on that too.
So it's kind of easy just to tofind me on.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
I'll link all of those platforms.
Perfect, yeah, all the linksfor people, as they can find you
and they can go listen to yourshow too.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
This.
Thank you so much.
This was awesome.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
That was super fun.
I always love chatting withKate.
She's just a joy and justbrings such great energy to
everything she does.
So you guys, make sure you goand follow her, listen to her
show, give her a review and arating and all the things that I
ask you to do here as well.
It really does help us littlepodcasters a lot.
I hope that you got some reallyawesome takeaways from today's
(56:57):
show and, regardless of whereyou are in your business and
regardless of how big your areais, there were some really great
marketing takeaways that I hopeyou walk away with.
And if you found this valuable,of course, I'd love to hear
from you.
You can hit me up over onInstagram at Renee Bowen, and if
you feel like the show wasvaluable, please share it with a
(57:18):
friend.
If you do share about it online, make sure you tag me so I can
come give you a shout out aswell.
And wherever you are in yourbusiness, remember you got to
show up.
If you want people to come,you've got to be willing to show
up, and nobody cares as much asyou do.
So get out of your head and justdo it.
Just do one small thing todaythat's gonna move your business
(57:39):
forward, okay, yes, a lot ofmindset is involved in that, I
get it, but don't overthink this.
Just something small.
Just get out there and do it.
People aren't gonna be able tofind you if you're not talking
about yourself, because,unfortunately, we have to be our
own PR agents.
It's not like we can reallyafford a whole team of people
talking about us out there.
We got to do that for ourselvesand I understand how cringy it
(58:02):
feels, but it's a it's anecessary evil and it can be fun
.
Okay, so hopefully you aredoing that, and if you need help
with any of that, you knowwhere to find me.
It's what I do inside ofcoaching and we customize it to
you.
So I hope you guys have areally great rest of your day
and I'll talk to you soon.
Love you, bye.
your bills are just the same amount and you don't
have to be small just becauseyou live in a small town, that
you are high end and the peoplethat value what you do are going
to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Tried and True with a dash of woo, where
we blend rock solid tips with alittle bit of magic.
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here, so are
you ready to get inspired andhave some fun?
Let's dive in.
Hey friends, welcome back toTried and True with a dash of
(00:45):
woo.
I am your host, renee Bowen.
My guest today is Kate DeCosteof Kate DeCoste Photography,
based in Wahoo, nebraska.
Yes, that is the real name ofit, and I think it's so cute.
I've known Kate a long time.
We were both members ofsomething called we Are the
Scene years ago, which wasstarted by a group called
(01:07):
Seniors Ignite that I was a partof and an educator with, and
she was mainly a seniorphotographer at the time.
And now she does a lot ofheadshots and branding, and we
are talking today about a hottopic that a lot of
photographers will bring up,either inside of my communities
or coaching, which is I'm from asmall town.
(01:28):
How am I supposed to build ahigher end business in a small
town?
And Kate's done it.
She's done it since 2009.
She's done it really well andwe go into a lot of those
specifics about how you can,some marketing ideas and how to
make sure you create thatfoothold in your market, even if
it's small, but this is goingto be for you, regardless of
(01:51):
whether you're from a small townor not.
We talk a lot about the bestpractices right now that you can
use to just have people findyou in general, which is, hello,
what we need.
If you are in business and youwant to make money at this, you
got to be found.
So we do talk a lot aboutmarketing today, but also we dig
into some mindset as well,because it's my show and that's
(02:11):
just what we do here, so you'regoing to love it.
You're going to love Kate.
She's awesome.
Before she started photography,she wrangled backstage chaos as
a stage manager in New York Cityand in Milwaukee, and so now
she brings that same creativeenergy and organization and
sparkle to every one of hershoots and she is now launching
(02:32):
her own podcast called the OneBehind the Lens, with Kate
DeCoste, and that is a podcastfor photographers building bold,
beautiful businesses.
It's real talk, strategy,confidence boosts for creatives
ready to go from hobbyist tohigh end without the burnout,
which is awesome, and I've alsobeen a guest on her show too, so
(02:53):
it was great to chat with heragain and I know you're going to
love this conversation we have,so let's dive in.
Hey, kate, I'm so excited tochat with you here.
I was recently on your podcastthat's coming out and we will
get to that in just a little bit, but I get to see you again,
and today we're talking aboutsomething a little different.
You are from a very small town,which literally is called Wahoo,
(03:16):
nebraska, which I love, by theway.
Come on, that's just thecoolest thing ever.
But you've been in business fora while, so I want to ask you
first of all but you've been inbusiness for a while, so I want
to ask you first of all, howlong have you been in business
as a photographer and what'syour thing, what do you
specialize in, and how do youget business from other areas?
This is a big topic that a lotof photographers in my
(03:37):
communities have.
They're from these small towns,but it's hard for them to build
within that area or even likepull from outside of that area,
and so I know that a lot ofpeople are going to get a lot
from this conversation.
So anyway, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Thank you, I'm so excited, great, to be able to
see you again twice in, like youknow, a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Okay, so tell us a little bit.
What do you specialize in?
How long you been at this?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So I basically opened my.
Well, I didn't open the studio,but I started the photography
business in 2009.
And prior to that I did theater.
So I'll kind of get to that inthe sense of thinking big with
(04:36):
that.
And then I specialize.
I mainly really was doingseniors.
I'm doing more.
I feel like now I'm doing a lotmore headshots than seniors.
Um, but it's been.
It's still like that funtransition of it and I still do
seniors, but I feel like it justseems like I've been doing a
lot more with headshots.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I love, I love headshots.
Um, I do too.
I've been doing those sincelike 1999 on film.
So like it was like the firstthing that I kind of started
shooting, and because myhusband's an actor.
So like yes he was like hey,here's this camera.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I need some updated headshots.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's like the running joke in our friend group.
It's like, okay, you're anactor married to a photographer.
Like come on.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, that's like perfect.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
He's pretty spoiled.
Every five minutes he's likehey, so you want to run into the
studio and update someheadshots?
No, I actually do not want todo that today.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Thanks for asking.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, so you are able to do that where you live.
Tell us a little bit about your, your small town, like where
you're from.
What's?
What's the demographics?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Sure, sure.
So Wahoo is about, it's lessthan 5,000 people, um, and we're
really like right smack in thedab between Omaha and Lincoln.
So really like, either way, ifyou go south you're going to hit
Lincoln in 30 minutes andyou're going to go the opposite
direction, north, you're goingto see Omaha in like 30 minutes
as well, depending on where yougo in those cities, but you're
(06:20):
going to hit them at that point.
So we're lucky in that sensewhere growing because I
literally grew up, born, raisedhere left came back but it was
easy, it was nice because youcould just run into Lincoln, run
into Omaha.
So I feel like that's kind ofhow my clients are.
(06:43):
When they're in Lincoln orOmaha they're like, oh, wahoo,
that's not, that's not far to go.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's kind of how like I grew up in a one traffic
light town.
I don't know the population, butit ain't big and you know, yeah
, that's why I grew up Like myfront yard is a cane field
backyard.
Well, front yard is theMississippi river, backyard is
the cane field, like literallyin the middle of nowhere, deep
South Louisiana, and it's kindof similar though, like 30
minutes to Baton Rouge, 40 ish,you know, 30 to 40 minutes
(07:13):
depending on what route you take, and like about 45 minutes to
an hour to new Orleans.
So it's kind of similar to thatway.
So, all right, when you started, what were some of the things
first of all that you did tomarket your business, kind of
just in the area, and then sortof what made you realize like,
(07:33):
oh you know, I'd like to be ableto pull in from these other
areas as well, and how did youdo that?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So I really, just when I first started, I was just
like anyone.
I was like, do you want a photoshoot, free photo shoots for
everyone, omar, or even asmaller town, just to build the
(08:03):
portfolio.
And then I do think that helpedwith the whole word of mouth of
you know, building and makingrelationships.
But then when I was like, okay,for a small town, we actually
have a couple of usphotographers that are high end
and which is kind of like alwayspeople are always like really I
(08:27):
figured you would be like.
You know, if you're in thatsmall town, you're the only you
know photographer and I'm nope.
And also I've always thoughtbigger and that's why it's kind
of funny to be back here,because when I was in high
school I was like I'm gonna getout, be back here, because when
I was in high school I was likeI'm going to get out and I did,
(08:52):
and then the fact that I cameback and stayed is mind-blowing.
But here it is.
So I've always thought biggerand I knew there were people in
these bigger cities that notthat my hometown people aren't
going to spend money, but thereare people in these bigger
cities that value what I do andthey will travel or they'll pay
(09:14):
me to travel to them that smalldistance.
So doing the SEO on Google hasreally changed really everything
I have on my form.
When you contact me on mywebsite, there's a question that
says when did you hear aboutKate?
(09:34):
And I would say 99% of the timeit's Google, nice.
And so that I'm like, okay,that's true, that's a real thing
.
Yeah, it is, it's, it's realand I try to do the google my
business like it's a free toolreally where I can, you know,
post little things that I'mdoing.
(09:57):
And you know, I try to do thatas much as I'm doing my social
media part, because I thinksometimes we get so honed in
which I love social media, Ilove doing TikTok, I love doing
Instagram, but I don't reallyhear of anybody saying they're,
you know, they're not writing onthe form.
I heard you from TikTok orInstagram, so I have to remember
(10:20):
like to use that Google mybusiness and that's that's
really where I feel like I'mgetting these people from
Lincoln and Omaha to find me.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's awesome and such a good reminder.
I kind of feel like I'm alwaysharping on that.
So thanks for sure.
Yeah, it's something I'm alwaystalking to photographers about,
and I feel like like when Istarted in like 2007, it was it
was a thing where I was like,okay, I need to learn SEO, and
(10:52):
my brain immediately shut downyes, but I knew it was important
, right, and so I feel like wekind of heard about it then and
then we're hearing about it now,but like I feel like there was
a span of time where people werelike you know, social media,
social media, seo is not reallywhatever like not as many people
(11:13):
, let's say not as manyphotographers, were probably as
focused, at least from what Icould see.
I feel like people kind of likefell off that wagon a little
bit or stopped thinking that itwas that important and they
weren't blogging.
And then a whole, like you know,people aren't reading blogs,
and I was always like it's notabout that, it's not about
whether people are reading yourblogs, it's about the SEO.
(11:35):
So I'm really glad that that'sworking for you and that you can
actually see where it's comingfrom, too, cause that's really
important to be able to trackfor sure.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely like, if you don't
have something on your form thatjust says where did you hear
about me?
Like just add that, becausethat I didn't always have that
on there and when I did, it wasa game changer, you know,
sometimes you do have it where,like somebody else, you know
it's a word of mouth, but um,which is night, you know, then
you can reach out to thosepeople as well, um, but yeah,
it's definitely, and like goingwith the blog too, like yes,
like I don't think I don't knowif people are are really reading
(12:13):
my blog, you know all the time.
But that's another thing that Iknow is helping.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And, um, yeah, I do push out at least once a month
is my goal.
If I do more, yay.
But my once Google my Business,but I try and automate it as
much as possible and then I tendto sort of forget about it for
a little bit, but it is reallyimportant.
And the blogging just in and ofitself, if you're just using
SEO and the way that it's meantto be used, that's a really big
(12:58):
thing.
So it's really.
I've always had that on my formtoo, just as a side note, just
like where'd you find me?
Cause I you know, yeah, we candig into it.
We can look at all our you knowsome analytics online and kind
of see, like, maybe, wherepeople are coming from, um,
inside of your Google analytics.
But it's way easier if peoplejust tell you that on the forum.
So, like you know, add that ifyou guys don't have that already
(13:20):
, it's a really good indicator,cause it's very important that
we're looking at, like, wherepeople are finding us.
A lot of my clients do find meon TikTok and Instagram, do they
?
Yeah, I get a lot.
Usually the teenagers will findme there, but I get a lot from
Google, like I would Google'sthe top from of like where I get
my leads from, and then I wouldsay TikTok is right behind that
(13:43):
, and then Instagram, and thenPinterest, which is really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, I don't ever have anyone saying that they,
but I feel like my Pinterestaccount, I'm always like where
are all these people like youknow, where they're checking
things out, and kind of likeTikTok, where I'm like, well
they're, they're there andthey're seeing it, and I don't
know if maybe they're going toGoogle then later.
I don't know, but yeah it's allimportant Definitely.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So, okay, getting back to how intentional,
basically, were you and are younow in that?
So like, yeah, we're talkingabout doing the Google my
Business and stuff like that,but, like you obviously know who
your client is.
And just kind of a little sidenote too, like you were
mentioning, it's not that peoplein your area don't want
(14:32):
high-end photography.
It's a numbers game, right?
Really, at the end of the day,like there's only so many people
in the town you know what Imean, right?
Yes, yes, so that's a big partof it is like okay, well, and
that's something I hear fromphotographers a lot.
First of all, it is 100%possible to build a high end
business in the small town Likeyou're.
(14:52):
You're a proof of that.
I have tons of proof of that inmy communities.
It definitely can and doeshappen, and you also need to be
doing what you're doing.
You also need to be likeexpanding into these other areas
and being intentional about it.
So are you doing a lot ofin-person marketing as well?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yes, and that's always that's hard for me, like
I don't.
I mean, I just you know, it'sjust that thing where you're,
just you know.
If you know who I am, because,again, it's small town, you
might know who I am.
But what's funny if you sayingthat is, I just was at a store
in Omaha, like a clothing, aclothing store, and they didn't.
(15:33):
The person checking me outdidn't recognize me by my face.
But when I gave my credit cardshe saw my name and she was like
are you that photographer?
And I was like well, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I know I love when that happens.
It's always when I give thecredit card.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's so funny, yes, where they see, it's like they
see the name and it all clicksand maybe they do recognize your
face, but they're not exactlyyou know exactly sure with like
TikTok and stuff.
So I've been better at thein-person of, especially like
I'm part of differentcommunities in Lincoln, like I'm
(16:15):
part of the Junior League andthings like that.
So I try to be a little bitmore of like this is you know,
I'm not just Kate at the JuniorLeague, but I'm a photographer
more of like this is you know,I'm not just Kate at the junior
league, but I'm a photographerand you know, especially like
doing, like branding or you know, those women that I'm around.
So, yeah, I definitely, like Isaid, it's hard to put yourself
(16:36):
out there, but it's definitelysomething that I think it's not.
I don't feel like it's cringyat all where people will be like
, oh, you're a photographer.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, so, yeah, it's important, though I think and
that's something that I talk tomy clients about a lot and I'm
an introvert, I don't love doingthe in-person stuff, like I
don't, I don't like going to thenetworking events- I don't want
to write especially at thispoint in my life like, at the
end of the day, I don't want to,but I do want my business to
thrive and survive Right, and soI just try and approach it and
(17:14):
I try and help clients approachit, especially fellow introverts
, in the way that it's like, ok,you can do this in small pieces
, you can take the baby steps.
I'm not going to go out thereand try and schedule all of
these extroverted events in oneweek for myself.
That would burn me out and makeme feel really icky.
But I can schedule one everycouple of weeks or something
(17:39):
like that.
You got to just know yourcomfort level with that, I think
.
And if you have a buddy thatyou can do it with, that's
always a little bit easier too.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I feel like if I had you just need that one
person, just that one buddy togo with and yeah, there's a few
things that I can do that I'vebeen telling myself in Omaha
there are some in person justgetting together with other
business people and I'm like Ireally need to just, yeah, just
(18:10):
just do it, and I need to justget a buddy and and go.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It really does help a lot.
But and also just kind ofbreaking it down into small
pieces like that, don'toverwhelm yourself into trying
to have to do all the things.
But I feel like I mean, I feellike that's just important for
all of us, all of usphotographers, anybody who's
really running a business,especially if you're trying to
pull in people from the area orsurrounding areas to be present
(18:36):
somewhat in the community.
It's not your thing Like it'sall good, but you do need to
have some of that on your radar,because that word of mouth,
especially for those of us whoare more higher end and charge
more right Than the averageperson, that is kind of a big
(18:57):
piece of it.
I have found for sure.
So, yeah, like people mightfind you on Google, but also
people tell me this all the timetoo, which I think is really
interesting.
Well, they might find me onGoogle, but then, if they kind
of then from Google go to mysocials, they kind of see, oh,
this person also knows thisperson, and then they have more
points of reference and touchpoints with me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You know what I mean.
Oh yeah, yes, well, yeah, it'sthat.
Yeah, the, just that kind ofclarification and being like oh,
they know, yeah, yeah.
Yes, yes.
Well, if they like them, thenexactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And then they get to kind of go down that rabbit hole
of all your content and findout, and so, yeah, I think all
those touch points are superimportant.
Okay, so I want to also touchreally quickly on pricing.
Just a little bit, not a lot.
I just do hear a lot ofphotographers asking me and just
kind of voicing concerns about,well, I can't really charge
(19:53):
that much because of where Ilive, right, like, because of
the demographics in my area,let's say, the small town not
saying you're small town is likethis.
But a lot of photographers wholive in small towns will say
this is not a wealthy community,this is not a community that's
going to spend a lot of money.
I'm having a hard time, I canpull from other places and
that's great, but I do want tostart pulling from my community.
(20:16):
Anyway, all that to say.
What would you say to aphotographer who says I can't
charge that much because ofwhere I live.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's funny that you say that because there is where
times and when, especially whenI first started out, where
people after I was doing youknow the free things and then I
was really like, okay, I want tomake this a business where
people they would almost be like, well, that you know, this is
Wahoo.
You can't charge that amount ofmoney.
(20:45):
And I'm'm like you pay basicallythe same amount for a haircut
here than you probably do inomaha groceries here probably,
or probably more, because it's asmaller, you know smaller for
sure it's probably going to bemore.
But I always just say, like inmy head, and what I want you
know I don't say this to clients, but like say in my head and to
other photographers is yourbills are just the same amount
(21:08):
and you know you don't have tobe small just because you live
in a small town, that you arehigh end and you're and the
people that value what you doare going to pay for it, because
you might be living in a townthat has, in every town town,
you're gonna have people thatmaybe they can't, they truly
(21:30):
cannot afford what you do, butyou are gonna find people that
do and they might not want topay for it, but then they're
going on, like you know, a bigvacation.
That's what they value.
They might not valuephotography.
So I always just say, likethere's, you have to value
(21:51):
yourself and they will come.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, no, it's true that's such a big piece of it
and that's the mindset piece ofit, right, like so you kind of
mentioned too about it's hard toput yourself out there or maybe
, like you know, like the fearof being seen, or like,
especially sometimes when somany people know you in a small
area, it can feel even moreintimidating, like, oh, I don't
(22:15):
want to, like you know, putmyself out there.
Let's say, like show up onsocial in a certain way or
whatever.
That might feel a little ickybecause, like, everybody that is
on your feed is like knows youlocally or, you know, knows you
personally.
And I always tell people likeyou just kind of have to, like
you have to let that go likeeven if that means making those
(22:37):
people unfollow you like thosearen't your clients.
At the end of the day, if you'reworried about you know like
what people close to you aresaying, but at the end of the
day too, like that's so much ofour own stuff, right, like
anytime that comes up, that'sreally your own stuff.
We're just projecting whatother people are going to say.
So how have you and I know youhave like a theater background
(23:00):
as well so like, how has thathelped you in all of this?
How has your mindset helped youin building all of this and
kind of getting past, you knowthat that ick factor as well.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well, I feel like it I.
It is hard because I still doit and I have to tell myself I'm
47 and I'm like you, have tojust move on and it's okay that
not everybody likes you, andit's you know, and it and it's
you know.
if they talk about you, thengreat, it's all word of mouth is
good right um, but the theateraspect I think helps for me that
(23:39):
I just had to keep moving onand you can't, you just have to.
Not everybody's gonna like whatyou see.
Like you might go to a show andnot like what you see, but you
might go, but I didn't reallylike that show, but I really
liked that part of it and so Ijust have to like think about it
(24:00):
in in that sense and I reallydo think theater and living like
I lived in New York for a while, that did give me like a
tougher skin, and not sayingthat, living in a small town, if
you hear about somebody maybegoing to somebody else in your
town and you have to be like, ohwell, they don't like me, they
(24:22):
like they wanted to go toso-and-so, and I just have to
remember they might, might notlike, maybe they don't like my,
my style, they like anotherperson, another photographer,
style, um, and just let it goand again just say it's just how
, how it is, and you just haveto keep moving and you can't
dwell in it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yes, and I don't know if I'm really answering your
question.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Very well, but I feel like I just went into like a
little circle there.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So there's that running joke, right, you know,
(25:08):
online or whatever, you see likeanyone running a small business
, not even just photographersyou get into it, especially if
you're, you know, running acreative business.
You get into it because youwere probably told you were good
at it and like, oh my gosh,okay, I can make money at this.
And then, before you know it,oh, that means I actually have
to market, oh, that means Iactually have to like be, you
(25:29):
know, showing up and doing that.
And so you kind of get yourselfinto something sometimes where
you're like I didn't realizethat I had to actually, you know
, be the face of my, my business.
But in what we do, the brandingis so much a part of that,
right Like, and we, we are ourbrand when we are out in the
community or whatever.
It's like when you run abusiness and it's like you, this
(25:49):
is you, yes, yes, you're thebusiness, especially if the
business has your name RightLike.
So, like, you know, right, mostof us have, and it's like OK.
So what that means for me is,you know, not that I have to be
out and like presenting likethis perfectly curated stuff.
No, because that's not who I amreally.
(26:11):
So, yeah, there's that level ofyou know, wanting to be
professional, which is great,but also being authentically
yourself, because that'sultimately what people are going
to be attracted to, right, likethey're attracted to real
people and not fake stuff.
And so I know we hear that alot and that word authenticity
(26:32):
gets thrown around a lot, but itreally is true, like it's a
very important aspect of themarketing is being the most you
that you can be.
That's like one of my coremissions in what I do is like I
just want people to just be them, like the most you that you can
be, because that is when youcreate that like ultra clear
(26:52):
resonance, that's like laserfocused, right.
Like it's not about being theloudest in the room, it's about
being the most focused, the mostlike linear, if that makes
sense Right Like yes.
Like, yes, I just kind of see itin my I see the visual in my
brain, but it's having a hardtime like coming out into words.
But you know like, instead oflike wide, wide loudness, it's
(27:12):
like laser focused, because whenyou are, you know speaking to
the right people and you knowwhat your brand is about, then
you can do that so much moreeffectively.
So what have you doneintentionally to create like a
higher end brand experience foryour photography business, even
without being in a big city?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I think the experience of it, of like from
start to finish when you fillout well, really, even when you
look at the website like I justhad a client the other couple of
weeks ago and he was like Ichose you because when I looked
at your website it wasn't stiff,it wasn't, and I was like, oh
well, thank you, where I waslike okay, well, that's good to
(27:56):
know.
Like he was like you were, youlooked fun and he wanted more of
a casual, like he'd lastheadshots he had.
He was like I was.
Just it was just very stiff.
And so I feel like juststarting where people can see
who you are, like you were justsaying, then they can start this
.
It's starting there and thenwith the website of just making
(28:17):
things easy to find you know, todefine me, to get in contact
with me because that's anotherthing people will tell me is
like it's just been easy tocontact you and get everything
set up to the shoot and and thenafterwards delivering still
you're there.
Still it's not just like theshoot ended and we're done, it's
(28:41):
still the follow up of thankyou, for you know, this was so
awesome to have you in thestudio or on location up until
you're delivering your prints oryour digitals, I feel like just
keeping literally from wherethey find me, either on Google,
my website, to that.
Deliver is what really setsapart from a high end to not.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah yeah, that makes sense sets apart from a high
end to not yeah yeah, that makessense.
It's all about that high touchalong the way, experience, like
that client journey, right, likeso I feel like a lot of
photographers.
They might start the work ofyou know these, these branding
foundations, let's say, of likehow they want their business to
look and feel to their clientsand they may even do their
(29:28):
target client work.
But then what about the rest ofthat process?
What about that entire journeywith your client?
Where do they come in?
How do you leave them?
What are all those touch pointsalong the way?
That's a really, really big partof it and if you are running
like a higher end business, justin general, that is a big piece
(29:49):
of it.
Is like making people feelreally taken care of, really
seen, and, you know, ideally,for me that looks like being
able to do that with automationsand not necessarily having to
like hold their hand physicallythrough that process, right, is
that what you, how you approachit as well, like this automation
(30:10):
, crms, things like that.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yes, and I, you know, I really just got into the
automations a few years ago andI don't know why I didn't start
it a lot like right away.
I think it was that thing oflike what do I, you know?
And it's like no, this is, yes,doing it and sitting down and
thinking through and getting thewording and getting everything
down.
Yes, it's going to take you alittle bit of time, but then
it's like oh yeah, they're goingto get their reminders, they're
(30:38):
going to get their prep guide,all of those things.
They're going to get it all,but you're not sitting there
three days prior or whatevergoing.
Do I have to send that?
Did I send?
What did I send them?
Like, you know that they'regoing to, they're going to have
it all and that they can alwaysreach out to you if you know, if
(31:00):
they need to.
But I feel like, with theautomations and as long as you
have, I don't think it needs tobe like super wordy but
intentional, like we've beensaying, like the word we've been
using, but it's intentional forthem, easy again, for you know,
even if it's their invoice orwhatever, it's just an easy.
Oh, this is what I need to doand I also just approach things
(31:22):
like how I would want something.
So think of it that way too.
If you're trying to start outand go I don't know how to do
this Well, how would you want tobe in this experience, on the
other side of it?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, that's a big piece of it.
You have no idea how manywebsites I will go to because I
see a lot of photographywebsites, whether people are
inquiring about things in my DMSor inquiring about coaching or
something and I'll always wantto do a little bit of research
on the person before I talk tothem and I go to these websites
and a lot of photographers arenot even like.
(31:57):
I just want to mention this andmake sure we highlight it.
The whole ease of getting intouch with you, like there's a
lot of times I have gone to awebsite.
First of all, I couldn't findthe person's name.
There's been multiple times I'vegone to a photography website
where it's not their, their.
Their name is their businessname, right, and I'm trying to
find out who they are like, whattheir name is.
(32:17):
I can't find it anywhere, noteven on the contact page.
There's no about page, alsowhere they're located.
That's not anywhere on there.
Like that's a huge thing, youguys.
So like if you're listening andyou're either just starting out
or you're revamping your siteor whatever you're like
reworking some stuff, make surethat that's like right on the
site.
Like people know who you are,they know where you're located
(32:40):
and what areas that you serve,like if you do go outside of
your area, and, um how to get intouch with you.
Make it easy for them to beable to get in touch with you,
like multiple times, like notjust one button, you know
there's got to be multipleopportunities for people and put
a phone number.
Like I know, like not a lot ofus like to be on the phone, I
(33:03):
get it, but I have a Googlebusiness number.
Like you know, I've had it foryears, right, and it's just the
easiest way to do it and you caneven get texts on that number,
which I love.
So you gotta, you gotta, havethat stuff up there, like guys,
if you're not doing that, likeyou're just literally not even
doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So Right, well, make it easy, yes.
And also, if you are someonelike me who is in a smaller
community and or in anycommunity that you're, but you
want to reach others, Idefinitely have your location,
because I'm with SEO or I'mpushing where I'm trying to
reach people in other thanthey're like you know, I have
(33:41):
had where people are like, oh,you're in Wahoo, ok well, and
they still will come to me, butyou want to Wahoo Okay Well, and
they still will come to me, butyou want to make sure.
So, like once someone said thatto me a long time ago I like
literally on every page of mywebsite, on the bottom, it
literally says where to findKate, and then it's a map and it
has my studio address.
(34:02):
All of that because I don'twant anyone to think I'm in
Omaha or Lincoln and be like,well, great, I can just go five
minutes and it's like, oh no,it's going to be, it's going to
for them, it'll be a little bitof an afternoon or a morning, so
yeah, yeah, it's similar to mebecause I'm about 35 miles north
(34:22):
of LA.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
So and LA is huge, obviously, right, right, well,
you know my studio isn't in LA.
So in LA is huge, obviously,right, right, well, you know my
studio isn't in LA.
If people are coming to me, ifthey want to come to me, for
seniors is not as as importantnecessarily because I'm doing so
much location work with that.
It's, it's most, it's alllocation, and so I go to them.
However, they do come to me forhair and makeup here and
(34:47):
headshots and branding, you knowhere.
So that's a really big piece ofit is that you want to make
sure that's really, really clearfor people, just in general, so
that you guys get found faster.
Like, just make it easy onpeople.
Just don't overthink it, like Ifeel like just a lot of us,
especially with us creativebrains, right, like we just tend
to overthink it and then weshut down.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yes, yes, just a lot of us over, especially with us
creative brains, right like.
We just tend to overthink itand then we shut down.
Yes, yes, yes.
And I feel like too, and I wasa stage manager, so I was always
on the back end of things, andso it's been just new for me
really to be like not just onthe contact page to have my
photo, but to kind of reallypeople want to know who you are
and I've had to be like okay, onmy homepage I'm going to put my
photo and obviously on thecontact page, and now I actually
(35:36):
have it on my blog page andpeople they do, they want to see
you and again, I'm the same way.
I want to see who I'm looking at.
So many people come to me forlike LinkedIn headshot.
You know they're like I justneed a quick LinkedIn because
people want to see you know,because we're at that time where
everybody wants to see you.
So I always say that too wherestart putting your face?
(35:58):
And all of the other things wejust talked about.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
But on the homepage.
Yeah, absolutely I agree, and Iknow that that's not most of us
, that's not our comfort zone,cause, like we're photographers,
we prefer to be behind thecamera.
But you're, you're so right,like people really need that
touch point and you just want tomake it as seamless as possible
for people, you know, I mean,just that's really what it's
(36:24):
about, okay, so I want to kindof move into another little
mindset question that I thinkit's super important.
What do you think is a beliefor a rule right that you've
broken in your business thathelped you grow faster?
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I know Throwing, you throwing you for a loop there,
yeah, like ooh.
Well, I do think, going back towhen I joined, we Are the Scene
and with senior photography, Ifeel like that's when people
were like, oh, that's when thespecializing of seniors kind of
(37:04):
came in with doing that anddoing the challenges that we had
monthly.
And I don't anymore have amodel team, but for years had a
model team and having them dothose shoots and getting that
out there and for them to talkabout it and to put it out on
social media and to see that Iwas doing something different
(37:28):
than what you might think of asenior photo would be and that,
yes, that was the modelingprogram.
But hey, you can still do this.
If you really want to have goldleaf on your face, or whatever
you know, for part of yoursenior session, we can totally
do it.
That, I feel like, broke themold a little bit in my I feel
like in my area and I don'treally feel like there were very
(37:51):
many photographers doingmodeling programs at that time
either.
So that kind of put me outthere and it definitely helped
again because I was just reallystarting out.
That definitely pushed me tobreak the mold from all the
other photographers.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, standing out is so important.
Standing out.
I could not think.
Yeah, I mean and that's how youknow, that's how Kate and I met
was through Seniors Ignite.
We were at the scene.
Like you know, being involvedin groups like that can be a
really great opportunity, notjust to find like-minded friends
and photographers who are kindof doing, you know, the same
(38:28):
thing, but also, like you said,to expand outside of your area
and get noticed in a differentway.
You know it is, but it's aboutgetting noticed for being
different.
And now, now, it's even moreimportant.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, I was just going to say that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Because there's so many people like just the sheer
numbers of people, and I'm notone of those people who's like,
oh my God, the market's sosaturated.
No, I think that the fact thatit's saturated is a good sign.
It means that there's a demandthere, and I'm also a big
believer in abundance mindset,that there's more than enough
for everybody.
There doesn't need to be anygatekeeping or whatever because,
(39:06):
like you said earlier, you'rejust a different kind of
photographer.
People are going to find whothey're looking for.
What's meant for you is alwaysgoing to be for you.
I really believe when you arestanding in that resonance, when
you are putting out a veryclear signal of who you are and
who you want to serve and whatyou do, your people will come.
Like you said earlier, like youbuild it, they will come, and
(39:28):
that's what that's about.
Yeah, it's just so important tobe zigging when people are
zagging or whatever that sayingis Right.
Or like it's Seth Godin alwayssays, you know, being that
purple cow, like what's going to?
Oh, yeah for sure.
So that's good.
I'm glad you brought that up,because a lot of people are
always thinking about, like,well, how am I going to do that?
(39:48):
Okay, well, what isn't beingdone?
Right, like I always tellpeople like what is something
that lights you up that maybe noone else is doing?
Or just kind of get creative,do a brain dump about some
things, or use Chats to be easyfor your brain dump.
Now, whatever that is Right,right, I'm up with something a
little different.
And uh, and really stand in it,stand in the confidence of like
(40:15):
yeah, this is, this is adifferent thing.
So, um, and I know you don't doa team anymore because you're
not doing as many seniorsanymore, but just in general,
you've always kind of talkedabout too and you've always sort
of like led with this, helpingpeople feel confident and seen
in your photos.
So like, how do you think thatcomes across when people find
you on Google, when people findyou on your website or anything
(40:36):
like that?
You know, let's say Google.
When people find you on yourwebsite or anything like that,
you know, let's say people, somesomebody's reaching out to you
for a headshot or branding.
Um, I know we've been talkingabout branding and how important
it is to be authentic in all ofthat, but what are some of the
ways that you help people dothat?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well, I feel like you know, everybody wants like,
even if you're you are anintrovert and there might be
days where you're like, oh, Idon't want to talk to anybody,
or whatever.
But we do as humans.
I feel like we, literally wewant to be seen Like when
someone asks me, hey, how's yourday going, I want them to
actually truly ask me that and Itruly want them to actually
(41:16):
truly ask me that and I trulywant, if I'm going to ask you,
hey, how are you doing today?
I don't want to that to say,because that's what you're
supposed like, that's polite andthat's what we're supposed to
say when we see somebody.
I truly want I don't you know.
And I mean if you say, oh, I'mokay, I mean, but if the way you
say it, then I'm going toprobably know if you really are
(41:36):
okay or not.
Yeah, but I just feel like weall, especially now, I mean, I
think, with social media,everything, we're all saturated
with all sorts of craziness andour political environment is
crazy, which it doesn't matterwhich way.
You know where you are, whereyou stand on things, but it's a
world of chaos right now.
(41:57):
So when you come in to thestudio or I'm shooting with you
on location, either a senior ora headshot client, I truly want
you to feel seen, and not justbecause I'm photographing you.
Yes, I'm going to, you're beingseen in my camera and but I want
(42:18):
that day to be the best, thebest time.
And you know, maybe things arenot going very well right now or
you know, whatever it is, butin that hour or three hours,
whatever it was, you've kind offorgot and you know you just had
a great time.
And it's kind of the same withme, like you know, sometimes
(42:39):
when I'm doing a shoot and Imight have like the day before
or even an hour before, I'm likeoh, maybe.
I got some not so great news orwhatever, but when you have
someone in and I have a greattime with you, you know, at
least for that hour or whatever,I felt seen and felt like you
know.
At least for that hour orwhatever, I felt seen and felt
like you know things were okay.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, no, that is such a good point because I
cannot tell you and I am soguilty of this myself, but it's.
I think this is like auniversal photographer thing and
maybe maybe an introvert thing,I don't know.
But like I've heard so many oflike my coaching students say
this, just like anybody in mycommunities, and I know
(43:19):
firsthand, I've definitely gonethrough this where it's like I'm
just not feeling it forwhatever reason.
Right, like I'm like, oh my God, like I don't like maybe I'm
just a little burnout, MaybeI've just gotten, you know, been
shooting too much or whatever.
I don't feel like going.
I don't, I don't want to do ityou.
I don't feel like going, Idon't, I don't want to do it you
know, obviously that's not anoption unless it's right.
(43:39):
Sometimes it's raining and I'mlike, yes, but um most of the
time not you know, because itjust means you have to
reschedule and that's anightmare in and of itself.
But there's that thing of likeokay, I don't, I'm not feeling
this today, but then you go andthe minute the client walks in
the door, everything is fine,everything's good.
It's like there's something tosay about that and I think it
(44:02):
really has a lot to do with like, first of all, when you're
doing something that you reallylove and it does light you up
yeah, there are going to be daysI think that you're like okay,
I'm just tired.
I don't know if I feel likedoing this, like you said, like
there could be a lot going on inthe world or in your family
life.
Obviously, like, things aregoing to happen, life is going
to life and you're not going tofeel it sometimes.
(44:24):
But the minute we start workingwith our clients and it just
clicks like something, it's likea switch turns on and it's not
about you anymore, not them, butat the same time, like you said
, you're getting filled up somuch because of the energy
exchange that's happening and ifthat's not like a true
(44:46):
indicator of the fact that we'rejust literally balls of energy
walking around in human bodies.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I don't know what is like.
Honestly Right, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
It's like we're just balls of energy like bouncing
off of each other and you cantell sometimes your energy does
not bounce well with someoneelse's energy and it's a little
bit of a friction, but not withmy clients.
Honestly, even though myclients may be very different
from me obviously they're comingfrom maybe a different walk of
life, different backgrounds.
There's something about it thatjust we gel and then all of a
(45:13):
sudden I'm like in it and I justfeel really lit up by helping
them feel like the best versionof themselves, and I know that
that's kind of what you talkabout as well.
So I just wanted to kind oftouch on that for a second,
because I feel like it'suniversal, that photography goes
through this.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It's like the running joke, right?
Okay, before we wrap up in asecond, I do want to talk about
your podcast that's coming up,um, and just a couple of
questions about that, cause I'malways always interested in,
just in general, I love podcasts, but like, what motivated you
to do it and all that?
I want to kind of get there.
But before we do that, I alwaysdo like to and I kind of
(45:57):
touched on that for a secondthere with the whole energy
thing but what is something thatyou do that would be considered
woo or mindset or something notstrategy-related, let's say, to
your business that helps youdaily?
Speaker 1 (46:11):
kind of do your thing I feel like probably the
biggest thing that I probably doevery single morning is I have
to.
I literally have to have.
I'm not one of those peoplethat can just get up and get
ready and go to work and like I,you know, and I probably with
theater and things like that, itwas kind of the same way Like I
(46:33):
feel like I, just I just, andas I get older, I have to have
where I get up and I have to.
It doesn't matter if I'mgetting, you know, I have to be
somewhere at eight o'clock inthe morning.
I have to get myself to get upearlier.
So I have time to just sit inthe quiet with and I love coffee
, so like with a cup of coffee,and I might scroll, scroll some
(46:56):
social media or you know thingslike that.
But it's just, I can't just belike I gotta go and I've never
been, and I really have neverbeen a morning person, so maybe
that's, that's what it is, soI'm not raring to go right out.
Yeah, no no, Like I'm awake butI'm not on.
Maybe is all the way turned on.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
I get that I do.
It's so interesting to metalking to people about this
because you really need to knowthat about yourself.
I feel like, especially as asolopreneur, I feel like so many
of us, especially women, tendto try and like make ourselves
do something that we think weshould be doing, that other like
(47:39):
maybe some guru has told usthat we should be doing.
Let's say, right, like you know, I've got to have like this
full on 30 minute to 60 minutemorning routine where I go
outside, I put my feet on grass,I get my face in the sun and
then I breathe air and then I gofor a walk and then I meditate
and I'm like who has time forthat?
Right, right, right, no, andenergy.
(48:01):
So for me, I am one of thosepeople like I'm not one of those
people.
My husband's more like you,like he likes a slower morning.
This is very common, I feellike, for people who have a lot
going on in their brain.
Right, like he's a creative andhe also doesn't sleep as well.
So like that also comes intoplay and he likes just a little
bit slower start.
(48:22):
It's really hard for him tojust get up and go.
I'm kind of the opposite.
I'm like the get up and goperson, because if I'm having a
slow morning, that puts me in aslow state for the rest of the
day, which is really weird.
That's just how my brain works.
So I like to get up and eithergo immediately out for a walk or
(48:44):
get in the shower and get going.
You know what I mean.
Like I and then I will, I willtake my cause.
I'm very big on like what's your15 minutes of non-negotiables
every morning.
So if I go for a walk, that'smy non-negotiable because that's
my mindset.
Like I get a lot done on thatwalk internally, you know,
there's a lot of things thathappen.
(49:04):
So I'm either like sorting somestuff out, I'm planning my day,
or I'm just relaxing, like,honestly, it can be very
meditative for me, depending onwhat I'm listening to.
So like, if I do a walk, thenthat's my 15 minutes, but if I
don't go for the walk, then I'mgoing to take 15 minutes.
I'm going to do a little bit ofgratitude.
I might, you know, close myeyes, do a little bit of a small
meditation, but I'm talking 15minutes like nothing crazy,
(49:27):
nothing long, because then Ifeel like I can't get started if
I take that long if that makessense, you know yeah, but it's
really important for us to knowyeah, and honor, and honor it
and and be okay with it and beokay that you're not like your
(49:48):
friend, or yeah, they dosomething different.
It's okay, exactly.
Yeah, no, I I hear that all thetime from like one of the
things I'll do with peopleinside of coaching is help them
create that, because a lot oftimes you, you know, I'll ask
somebody like what, what do youlike to do in the morning?
Like what, what's your thing?
And so many people don't evenreally know and they're like I
don't know, I just do thisbecause I think I'm supposed to.
You know what I mean.
Like I just feel like I gotta,I just gotta get it done.
(50:10):
And then they're in a reactivestate all day because they've
kind of been on their phone fromthe get-go and all that stuff.
And so, again, human design, Ithink, does come into play.
Do you know your human design?
I do not.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
I mean, I hope you figure that out, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
And you just send me your birthday information, I can
find out for you.
But I think it's a really bigfactor, truly, and I'm not
certified in human design.
I have no desire to be.
It's a big topic.
People study it for years andyears, but I like to use it
inside of my coaching just sothat I can, like, help people.
Well, basically, it helps mecoach people better because it's
(50:48):
like almost like a cheat code.
I'm like, oh okay, this is yourenergy type, now I can.
I really can get a good pictureof how that person will learn,
how they access information,things like that, and I can
customize things better.
But also it's a really greatopportunity to help them learn
more about themselves and it's agreat self-awareness tool.
So I do think that that comesinto play a little bit too.
(51:10):
But that's just the book.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, I'm sure I will .
I feel like all of that, yeahit, all of it does just you know
, we were talking about the moonand all of that like, oh,
that's why I was probably beinglike that.
Yeah, totally Blame it on themoon.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
That's my that's my thing.
It's a damn full moon.
So you have a podcast launchingsoon, and so people are going
to be able to find you there.
I'm not sure when this episodeis going to air, but I'm on your
podcast.
So I'm not sure when it's goingto air, but it's probably more
than likely that this episodewill come out after that.
So yours is called the OneBehind the Lens.
(51:45):
Yes, what made you want tostart a podcast?
Speaker 1 (51:49):
So I have done a podcast with my chamber.
So I'm on the chamber board anda few years ago the president
and then I was the vicepresident we were talking about
like different things of likewhat can we do, and I was like
we should try to do.
Well, first we were going totry to do like let's do like a
(52:10):
little talk show thing, and Iwas like that.
And then I was like that's like, wait, no, let's not do that.
So then I was like, let's tryto figure out a podcast.
So, cut to a couple years laterwe've been doing a podcast for
the chamber, chamber chat withKate and Kat, if you ever want
to know what's happening inWahoo.
So we started that and I justreally, I just have really
(52:33):
enjoyed, enjoyed the platform.
I just have really enjoyed,enjoyed the platform.
So then I did try anotherlittle podcast with a friend
that we kind of just you know, Ifeel like sometimes when you do
it with other people it's hard,and so it kind of fizzled out
and it was more like a gen xtype thing and it was very fun
like she's a childhood friend ofmine but it just that was just
too hard.
So so I was like, okay, Ireally love this, I want to do
(52:56):
it and I need to do it by myself.
And I honestly didn't know whatI was going to talk about.
And I know people will be like,well, why wouldn't you know to
talk about photography?
But I was like, but that's noteverything that I love.
But I was like I think maybetalking to people that are in
there earlier, one to threeyears, maybe that would be a
(53:20):
good audience and more not whereI had to like research, because
I was thinking of, like, do Iwant to do something with crime?
And like that, Though we haveso many crime, you know crime
podcasts, but I love them all.
But then I was like, that's alot of research Are you going to
be able to do you know, likeyou can't, and not that I'm like
, oh, I can just talk aboutphotography and just, but I know
(53:44):
it, yeah.
So I felt like that was abetter fit.
And then getting to, you knowtalk to have you on and, you
know, have other photographerson, and having the conversation
part of it, too, has been beenfun.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Good, I'm glad that you think it's fun, cause I
think it's really fun.
I was surprised about how fun Ithink it is.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
You know, cause, like I was when I started, I was
like, okay, like I, I definitelywant to do this, but like, is
there going to be too much work?
Am I going to be?
able to do it All that stuffright.
That's stuff you got to thinkabout, but it's been super fun.
So I'm yeah, I'm really excitedto see where yours goes, and I
kind of had the same thing whenI started.
Mine was like, well, I am aphotographer, but I don't want
(54:30):
to just talk about photography.
I do a lot of other thingscoach other people, not just
photographers.
So I get that that sort of likeyou don't want to box yourself
in and really you don't have tolike no matter what you name it,
at the end of the day you'refree to talk about whatever the
hell you want to talk about yourshow, right, right, well, and
that's why I thought that too,where I was like especially like
(54:51):
you know, listening to yoursand listening to other you you
know where I'm like.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Okay, it's not literally, just here's your lens
and here you know like we cantalk about life, and yeah, yeah,
because we're more than justour business.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
You know, especially like us as anyone who's just
like a solopreneur, like kind ofdoing it on their own, whatever
.
You are the business, but youalso are human.
You're a human being and you'reout there living your life and
doing fun stuff and havingexperiences, and I think all the
conversations are important andyou never know who is listening
(55:25):
, who also feels seen and heard,and that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
So I'm excited for you.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
Thank you Well, so okay, tell people where you like
to connect with them before wewrap up.
I mean, I could chat with youfor for a long time about all of
this stuff, but we ain't gotall day.
So, we know the podcast iscoming out.
Do you know a release date?
It may be after this alreadycomes out, but say it anyway.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Well, August 4th will be the release day, so it's
coming up, um, but then they'llbe on there and, uh, you can
find it, um and then um.
So I'm sure yours will be inthat aug, like that sometime in
august time frame, um, and thenI'm on instagram, just k to
(56:12):
coast.
You don't have to put thephotography, just k to coast
facebook, tiktok, of course.
Yeah, um, and I'm k to coast onthat too.
So have to put the photography,just Kate to coast, facebook,
tik TOK, of course, yeah, andI'm Kate to coast on that too.
So it's kind of easy just to tofind me on.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
I'll link all of those platforms.
Perfect, yeah, all the linksfor people, as they can find you
and they can go listen to yourshow too.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
This.
Thank you so much.
This was awesome.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
That was super fun.
I always love chatting withKate.
She's just a joy and justbrings such great energy to
everything she does.
So you guys, make sure you goand follow her, listen to her
show, give her a review and arating and all the things that I
ask you to do here as well.
It really does help us littlepodcasters a lot.
I hope that you got some reallyawesome takeaways from today's
(56:57):
show and, regardless of whereyou are in your business and
regardless of how big your areais, there were some really great
marketing takeaways that I hopeyou walk away with.
And if you found this valuable,of course, I'd love to hear
from you.
You can hit me up over onInstagram at Renee Bowen, and if
you feel like the show wasvaluable, please share it with a
(57:18):
friend.
If you do share about it online, make sure you tag me so I can
come give you a shout out aswell.
And wherever you are in yourbusiness, remember you got to
show up.
If you want people to come,you've got to be willing to show
up, and nobody cares as much asyou do.
So get out of your head and justdo it.
Just do one small thing todaythat's gonna move your business
(57:39):
forward, okay, yes, a lot ofmindset is involved in that, I
get it, but don't overthink this.
Just something small.
Just get out there and do it.
People aren't gonna be able tofind you if you're not talking
about yourself, because,unfortunately, we have to be our
own PR agents.
It's not like we can reallyafford a whole team of people
talking about us out there.
We got to do that for ourselvesand I understand how cringy it
(58:02):
feels, but it's a it's anecessary evil and it can be fun
.
Okay, so hopefully you aredoing that, and if you need help
with any of that, you knowwhere to find me.
It's what I do inside ofcoaching and we customize it to
you.
So I hope you guys have areally great rest of your day
and I'll talk to you soon.
Love you, bye.
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