May 21, 2025 • 39 mins
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On today's show:
If you’ve ever felt like getting featured in a major publication was only for celebrities or six-figure influencers, this episode will shift your entire perspective. I sat down with PR expert Gloria Chou, who has helped small businesses earn over a billion organic media views without a single paid placement.
We talk about how to become your own PR agent (even if you’ve never pitched before), what creatives often get wrong about media visibility, and Gloria’s CPR Method—her proven framework for writing attention-grabbing pitches that work in any industry, including photography.
This isn’t about vanity metrics—it’s about credibility, SEO, and long-term visibility that works for you. Gloria drops tools, mindset reframes, and free resources that creatives can start using today. Don’t miss her brilliant pitch tip or her surprising take on what journalists really want.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But if you are a photographer or creative,
chances are you don't have the$5,000 to $10,000 a month for
six months minimum, which iswhat they charge in New York.
So then we think, OK, well thenwe don't get seen, and I just
absolutely refuse to accept that.
I think it's time for the restof us to be seen.
So from all the times that I'vepitched and gotten phone
slammed in my face and rejected,I picked up on cues on when the
(00:20):
journalists would respond.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And so let's talk about how to write a good pitch.
Welcome to Tried and True witha dash of woo, where we blend
rock solid tips with a littlebit of magic.
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here.
So are you ready to getinspired and have some fun?
Let's dive in.
To get inspired and have somefun, let's dive in.
(00:50):
Hey friends, welcome back toTried and True with a Dash of
Woo.
I am your host, renee Bowen.
I am back from my littletwo-week hiatus that I had with
the podcast and we are intoseason three.
I needed a little bit of abreak.
My son also graduated college.
He graduated with a performancedegree from Berklee School of
Music out in Boston, so we spenta little over a week watching
(01:11):
him play, watching him graduate,spending some time there,
seeing some family from the EastCoast, and it was just all
around an amazing little getaway.
So I appreciate you guyssticking with the podcast and
listening to some of my pastepisodes.
While I was away, I heard somefeedback from you guys over in
my DMs and I had sent some linksout to some previous episodes
(01:31):
because, yeah, we've got twofull seasons for you to devour.
If you haven't listened to someolder episodes, it might be a
good time to dig back in and seewhat I have in the archives for
you.
But today is a new episode andbefore we get into my amazing
guests today, I want to touch ontwo really important things,
because I have two reallyawesome resources for y'all in
(01:54):
very different sort of likeniches, but they're equally
amazing and I need to tell youabout them.
All the info on them is goingto be below in the show notes,
but I want to make sure I giveyou a little bit of insight into
why I'm involved with each ofthem and tell you a little bit
more about what each of thementails.
So, like I said, two completelydifferent topics One is AI and
(02:18):
one is photography.
You know that I don't like tofit into one little box.
I'm never going to.
So the first one is AI Unlocked.
It is an amazing summit thatyou don't like to fit into one
little box and I'm never goingto.
So the first one is AI Unlocked.
It is an amazing summit thatyou just absolutely have to
check out.
It's free.
Honestly, you guys over 50speakers talking about AI in
various different ways.
So if you are new to AI, thisis amazing.
(02:40):
But even if you are a seasonedAI user, you still need this
because chances are you're notusing it to its fullest
potential.
Now I've been talking about AIliterally since ChaiGPT was
announced.
I got it the day it came out.
So I have been an active, very,very prolific user of ChaiGPT
since it came out.
But there's so many other usesof AI now and also a lot of
(03:02):
people are just sort ofscratching the surface and how
they're using it.
There's so many things you cando with AI Now I haven't spoken
about a ton of it here on thepodcast because I speak mostly
about it honestly to my coachingstudents.
I help them build their ownGPTs, I help them craft plans
and funnels and marketing allsorts of things using their own
(03:23):
AI, and so I tend to talk moreabout it inside of my coaching
now, whether it's group coachingor one-on-one.
But I want to start talkingabout it more here.
So look for some more guestscoming up soon that are going to
be talking more about this, butin the meantime, this AI
Unlocked Summit that's happeningat the end of May.
You need to go ahead and getlocked into this early bird
(03:45):
situation because it is free,but if you upgrade to the VIP,
the early bird pricing ends soon, so go check it out.
The link is below.
I'm doing a presentation.
This is not like your run ofthe mill, basic stuff.
This is not like, oh, just putin this prompt.
No, this is like advanced level, like amazing information on
(04:06):
how to use AI to its fullestpotential in the most efficient
way, like I don't know if you'relike me, but I have multiple
things saved on, like TikTokReels, even on my browser, all
about AI, but I don't have timeto like dive into it at the
moment, so I just save it andthen I just kind of like it's
just there and I don't knowwhere it is.
If that's you too, thissummit's going to be amazing
(04:28):
because it's all in one placeand it's short, digestible but
really informative things.
And I am teaching all about NLP, neuro-linguistic programming,
how to use that with AI tocreate better and more effective
sales language.
So you definitely want to tuneinto that.
I'm super excited about it.
I'm really excited to just beinvolved in this.
(04:49):
My friend Gemma is putting iton.
This is her second year doingit and I think last year she had
over like 5,000 people sign up.
It is a really amazing summitthat it's free, so the link is
below Check it out.
Just sign up for it right nowand you will not be sorry, I
promise.
And the other amazing resource Iwant to tell you about, if
(05:11):
you're a photographer, is thatthis is the second year that I
am going to be participating inthe Milky Way Online Family
Retreat, which last year wasamazing.
I was teaching all abouteditorial posing for seniors,
and this year I'm going to beteaching you how to pose and
shoot guy seniors.
And also a little side note onhow you can make this profitable
(05:31):
if you're a family photographerand you're either not offering
full senior sessions yet, or youdon't want to, or maybe you
just want to figure out a way toserve your clients a little bit
better.
I kind of walk you through howyou can do this with guys,
especially because guys arenotorious for just like doing
this for their mom, right?
Like most of them don't reallywant to have, like this, full
editorial session, like a lot ofour girl clients do, but some
guys do.
However, most guys are justkind of like doing it for the
(05:54):
moms, and I walk you through howyou can make this quick and
painless and easy for your guyclient and also amazing for the
parents, and also how you canmake it profitable for you.
So I walk you through a fullsession, you shoot the guy
session with me, you edit thesession with me and then I also
give you a little bit ofbusiness education, too, on how
(06:14):
you can actually leverage thisand and make some money doing it
, cause that's ultimately what Iwant you to do and, just in
general, it's an amazing retreat, you guys.
Lisa does not put on reallyfluffy content, she's serious
about it, and it is an amazingresource for family
photographers, newbornphotographers and now senior
photographers, because this isthe second year in a row that I
(06:35):
am teaching you guys seniors.
Okay, let's get to today's guest, because we are talking all
about PR.
I'm always telling you guys,you got to be your own PR agent,
right, you got to be your owncheerleader, but today we're
going to talk about exactly howto do that.
My guest today is a powerhouseand you're going to absolutely
be obsessed with her.
Her name is Gloria Chow.
She's an award-winning PRstrategist and the host of the
(06:56):
top rated small business PRpodcast, so you can definitely
go find her there.
All her links are below in theshow notes, of course.
Known for her untraditional yetproven approach to PR, which
makes visibility and access tomedia accessible to anyone,
gloria helps BIPOC and femalefounders get featured
organically in top tier mediawithout needing PR connections
(07:17):
or a large following.
Her strategies have earnedsmall businesses in nearly every
industry niche over a billionorganic views and features in
outlets like the New York Times,oprah's Favorite Things, vogue
and Forbes, without any pay toplay.
And her background is superinteresting because she used to
be a US diplomat, which I thinkis fascinating, and now she is a
small business advocate andshe's also been on over 100
(07:40):
podcasts.
She was also named PitchWriting Expert of the year, so
she knows her stuff, and she'salso a Forbes next 1000 honoree.
So we go deep into all thedifferent ways that you need to
be putting yourself out there inan effective way.
That is not going to feel gross,it's not going to feel weird.
She's got some amazing tips foryou guys.
So grab a pen and a paper, takesome notes and get ready,
(08:01):
because here we go.
Hey Gloria, thanks so much forbeing here with us today.
I'm really excited about thisconversation because I don't
feel like it's one that we talkenough about, especially in the
photography and creative worlds.
That is PR.
But I kind of want to startwith how did you even get to
this place, right?
How did a US diplomat end upteaching small business owners
(08:22):
entrepreneurs how to pitchthemselves?
How did a US diplomat end upteaching small business owners
entrepreneurs how to pitchthemselves?
How did you even get into this?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, I'm really not your typical PR gal.
I actually never worked a dayin my life at a PR agency or
marketing agency, so I callmyself an outsider in many ways.
But I always lovedcommunication.
I was writing speeches for theambassador.
I just was always that.
I always say in my previouslife I was a hip hop emcee
because I just love beingeveryone's hype gal, I love
(08:51):
seeing people win, and I thoughtPR was pretty natural for me
because I was always connectingpeople and I really just loved
it when people felt seen, Ithink there's something magical
and sacred about that.
But when I got into thediplomatic corps, I was
bilingual, growing up bicultural.
I think there's somethingmagical and sacred about that.
But when I you know, when I gotinto the diplomatic corps, you
know I was bilingual, growing upbicultural.
I've always loved all thingsinternational relations.
I studied abroad, in SouthAfrica, but being in it is a
(09:14):
whole other story right being inthe government, being in
bureaucracy and I realized veryquickly that I'm really just not
meant for bureaucracy and I'mreally more of a creative, and
so that really was a bitsuffocating for me.
Even though I had a pension, Ihad a really stable career in
front of me.
It just wasn't a personalityfit for me at all.
So I just had to kind of have amidlife crisis and move back
(09:36):
home and kind of give thatcareer up and start from the
bottom.
And I remember one of myfriends was like well, you know,
if you want to do PR, you knowyou can get PR for us.
Like we're an early stageFinTech firm and, by the way, at
this point I applied for over athousand jobs in communications
and PR and nobody would hire mebecause they were all very
confused and they were like youknow, we're looking for a very
(09:56):
traditional PR agency experience.
And that's when I realized thatthis industry was really
gatekept and really traditional.
And so I was like, wow, therereally is a very straight path
for it and I'm just not fittingin the box.
So my friend was like we haveearly stage FinTech.
It's just me and the founders,we don't really have a budget,
but we'll pay you $250 if youcan get us in the news and $500
(10:17):
if you can get us on CNBC or aprimetime TV.
And I didn't have the contacts,I didn't know anybody, so I had
to literally I kid you not putin the Google search bar, new
York Times Newsroom, and I hadto just start to dial from zero
the operator with sweaty shakingpalms and just get rejected a
thousand times until I got themfinally onto all the different
(10:38):
networks and TV and I started topick up on patterns, on when
the journalists would actuallygive a damn, because, again, I
don't know them.
And now I turn this into a coldpitching method that I teach to
founders all around the worldto really start to advocate for
themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Okay, that is so cool .
There's so many pieces of thatthat are so cool.
I love the fact that youliterally had the awareness of
like yeah, this isn't for me,I'm going to do something else,
cause like that, right, there isreally hard for a lot of people
to even get to, right, I mean,I'm sure you see it too in our
world, right, like of people whojust they stay in these, in
(11:14):
these places, because they feellike either that's what they
should do Okay, this was what mydegree is or whatever, and it
was like no, you were like, nope, I'm not willing to do that.
And that's so interestingbecause, like, I know you from
online, right, like I didn'tknow that you had that
background until after we talkedabout you coming on the podcast
and I was like what?
Like I would never have thoughtlike you just seem like you are
(11:37):
so made for what you're doing.
Right, like you just shine sobright online, and so I found
that so interesting and I lovethat.
Just the takeaway for peopleLike, first of all, before we
even get into the PR aspect ofeverything, like you can kind of
do whatever the hell you wantto do.
You just need to like act on it.
So that's.
That's a cool thing.
I know it was scary too.
(11:58):
Obviously, as you know, thingsare like you said, but like also
, you didn't like take no for ananswer, you kept going.
So that's a really big piece ofit too.
And I mean, just before we evenget into the PR chatter, that
is something that a lot ofpeople deal with, just whether
they're photographers or not,creatives.
(12:19):
Just in general, pitchingyourself, putting yourself out
there, starting a business right, getting a lot of these no's,
getting a lot of rejections howdo you deal with that?
And what was that mindset piecefor you?
Like to keep you going?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
essentially, yeah, my husband always says that I'm
just really like shameless andrelentless and I always had it
in me and I just, you know, Ijust I don't really think that
it's ever a no, I just thinkit's just like not right now and
you find a different way and Ithink my threshold is just a lot
higher than most people, wherepeople would feel embarrassed or
they would say, okay, this is,and I would just keep going.
(12:58):
And it doesn't always work inyour favor, right, it hurts, but
I just think that once you killyour ego which is the process I
had to go through, you know, Iwas a US diplomat.
I had certain rights andprivileges, it was a prestigious
quote unquote job, and then togo from all over like the bottom
again, you know, you had to gothrough a period of death and
grieving your ego.
And I think once I realizedthat I'm going to be okay, like
(13:19):
I'm not going to be on thestreets, I can't, you know, I
don't have a lot of the luxuriesthat I used to, but I'm going
to be okay, and then I juststarted building from there and
I just became like, okay, thenit's fine, because what else
could happen?
What's the worst that couldhappen.
A journalist says no, I get aphone slammed in my face, but
what's the upside of it Is thatthey say yes, and my client
(13:40):
lands on national TV and that Ican keep building.
So I think at any point in timewe have to weigh our pros and
cons, and I always say this toall of our PR members is like
everything you want in life ison the other side of the send
button.
So send, just keep pressingthat send button, whether it's
to an editor, whether it's, youknow, to a client, and the worst
they can say is no.
And you know, I haven't had ajournalist like ever like
(14:03):
blacklist me or any of myclients, and I just really think
that we need to lean into that,because we're so far on the
other side we're like pitchingourselves as a radical act,
especially as women right,especially as women of color too
, that a lot of times we eitherdon't go there or we kind of
stop.
But if we just push a littlebit more and have that gumption,
that confidence, then you know,I think that so many
(14:24):
opportunities would.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, okay, you guys definitely soak that in, because
that's a really, reallypowerful message.
It's true, it's really true.
You got to just show up.
I love that.
So one of the things that youdo, and one of the things that I
love that you do is that youteach people how to be their own
PR agent, basically Just how todo this, how to stand in that,
(14:50):
and I would love for you to kindof walk us through what that
really means, like, maybe, how aphotographer, an artist, a
creative, can even kind of startshowing up that way, especially
when they feel who am I, youknow, like maybe they have a lot
of this underlying, maybe let'scall it imposter syndrome,
whatever you want to call it butlike this resistance to doing
(15:12):
that for themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah it's, it's so natural.
So don't feel like.
You know.
If you're listening to this athome you're like, oh, there's no
way I can do it.
Like it's, it's not your fault.
I think it's the conditioningfrom the, the industry, that
tells us we cannot pitchourselves or somehow that you
know it's.
It's kind of like scammy, likefor celebrities and politicians,
(15:37):
or you only need it if you'rein trouble.
And so I think that because noone has ever made it accessible
and it's been shrouded insecrecy and complexity, that of
course we don't know how topitch ourselves.
So it is unnatural.
But I promise you, journalistswant to hear from you.
They don't actually want tohear from a PR rep.
So let's just remove thatmiddle layer and teach you how
to do it yourself and you know,with an intern or assistant to
take it in-house, and you'regoing to feel not only that
you're a better writer, but thatkind of like tangential benefit
of like pitching yourself.
You're going to feel so muchmore empowered and confident.
(15:58):
It's going to transform andripple into every aspect of your
life.
So that's one thing I'venoticed is that journalists
don't actually need to speak toan intermediary, right?
Everyone that I've helped.
They just pitch themselves andactually journalists like that.
And another thing is thatthere's no such thing as a
newsworthy person or a story ora company.
I've written pitches forcandles and bath salts something
(16:20):
really boring and somethingreally esoteric and they get
featured.
So it's really about pitchingthe right way for the news cycle
.
And so instead of thinkingabout, am I newsworthy, let's
transform that into how can Ipitch for the season, how can I
pitch for the relevance of whatpeople are covering.
So if you are in spring, summer,what are the angles for outdoor
shoots?
Bridal graduation, right?
If you're in Q4, maybe it'ssomething wintry, warm, like
(16:41):
family portraits, somethingabout mental health, whatever.
That is Valentine's Day.
We had someone who is abourgeois photographer and she
got featured in well and goodfor a spread, for why a
bourgeois photography is thebest self-care gift this
Valentine's day.
So there's a blue ocean ofopportunity.
You just have to know that it'sout there for you.
So that's kind of the mindsetpart.
And when you boil it down, pris really simple.
(17:04):
It's two things it's writing apitch and sending it to the
right person.
And so if you know how to writeand I don't want to say a
newsworthy pitch, but a relevantpitch, and if you know who to
send it to you, put the two andtwo together.
You can create a system in yourbusiness and I can go into like
the nuts and bolts of exactlyhow do you find your angle and
then how do you actually findthese journalists online.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
I love that story too.
It's so true you got to usewhat's already there, what's
going on in the cycle, so takingyourself out of it and making
it not about you necessarily.
And how can what's so specialabout me?
Quote, unquote but like, well,okay, no, what does the story
really mean to the new cycle?
That's a really interestingthing that, I guarantee you, a
(17:48):
lot of people are probably notthinking about on their own.
So I would love for you to kindof talk about this three-step
process that you talk about,about getting PR, like you know,
without hiring an agencynecessarily.
I mean, it's so empowering,like.
Can you share a little bit moreabout that?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah.
So you know people always say,like you know I love to hate on
agencies.
It's not that I'm hating onagencies, I just think agencies
are not built for smallbusinesses.
They're built for bigcorporations that have tons of
money.
That you know can kind of justthrow money at the problem,
right.
But if you are a photographeror creative, chances are you
don't have the five to $10,000 amonth for six months minimum,
which is what they charge in NewYork.
(18:24):
So then we think, okay, wellthen we don't get seen, and I
just absolutely refuse to acceptthat.
I think it's time for the restof us to be seen.
So from all the times that I'vepitched and gotten phone slammed
in my face and rejected, Ipicked up on cues on when the
journalists would respond.
And so let's talk about how towrite a good pitch.
It's my CPR method, whichstands for credibility point of
view and relevance.
(18:45):
A good pitch needs to haverelevancy and specificity.
So you start with the subjectline.
The subject line is not goingto be your name, your company
name or the word pitch.
It's not going to be somethinggimmicky like oh I have
something for you, claire, right, it should read something like
you know five photography trendsfor, you know, in the Midwest,
or like you know best tools forcreatives doing XYZ.
(19:08):
So you see how it kind ofsubject line reads like it's
almost like an article.
Right, it gets to the point.
You're not burying the lead.
And then the email pitch isreally simple.
So you start with somethingthat's relevant because, boom,
right off the gate, you want tocatch them with the relevance.
So talk about what theirreaders are looking for, as your
readers are looking forcreative Halloween photo shoot
(19:29):
ideas, right.
Or, as we head into, mother'sDay as we head into.
So whatever that relevance is,it could be a season, it could
be a holiday, it could beweather related, it could be
something happening in popculture.
For example, we have a lot ofpeople in bridal.
So I know that Sophia Richie'swedding you know that kind of
minimalist glam was reallypopular, so maybe it's something
about that.
(19:50):
So think about how you can talkabout a pop culture trend,
whether it's in movies, whetherit's in celebrities, whether
it's on TikTok, right.
I also love something that'sdata informed.
So if you have some data, youcan use a third party data.
We have someone who is aspeaking coach for introverts
and she pulled up a third partydata and she started her email
with you know, I've actuallyseen that research shows that
(20:11):
certain introverts are actuallybetter suited for leadership
positions than extroverts.
So I love that, because that'sboth a contrarian point of view
that goes against what we think,and also using data.
So those are all the kind ofdifferent ways you can start to
think about your industry.
Another way to think aboutrelevancy is what's changed in
your industry?
Right, with AI, with so manythings happening, I don't care
what industry you're in, but weare having an incredible amount
(20:34):
of change on every levelsocioeconomic, mental,
relational.
What is that right?
So those are all the ways youcan think about relevancy.
So put that in the firstparagraph.
And then the point of view inCPR stands for three things.
So it's either bullet points orlists.
It could be tips or ideas orinsights, and then you wrap the
email up with credibility one ortwo sentences about how long
you've been doing this, whetheror not you've been featured, why
(20:57):
this is important to you.
Don't go crazy with yourbiography here.
Right, being a mompreneur isnot enough, but you have
something that is superinteresting, then talk about it,
but don't go crazy Again, oneto two to three sentences.
You can put a hyperlink.
I love hyperlinks because itsaves you from their spam filter
.
Don't attach a huge attachment.
If you have something visual,feel free to put up to three low
(21:22):
res photos, but again, youdon't want it to be like crazy
amount of download because it'sgoing to.
So that's kind of the anatomy ofthis CPR pitch.
I call it pretty golden.
You're not writing the articlefor the journalist, right?
That's a contributor piece.
You're giving them just enoughto say that you're an authority
in this niche and that you haveideas for them.
And that's really the point ofthe pitch is for them to say,
okay, well, tell me more, and sothat's really how you have it.
(21:44):
I can go into more, but weobviously don't have time for
that.
But like follow-up etiquette,that's really kind of a CPR
framework of how you can pitchto anyone who doesn't know you
and get a yes from the otherside.
I have people use this forspeaking for awards, for selling
their stuff to retailers,wholesalers.
So the CPR framework is reallykind of the foundation.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, I was going to say, I bet this can be used for
various things.
I'm glad you brought that up.
But what's standing out to metoo a little bit, and I kind of
want to like backtrack just alittle bit and even kind of talk
about all right so why is thiseven important?
Right Like so, a lot ofphotographers, especially like
in my world as a high schoolsenior photographer right Like
(22:24):
so, I have, you know, a lot ofpeople in my audience who work
with high school seniors, whichis a very like sort of specific
niche within a niche, I wouldsay, and you know, you'll see a
lot on their, their profiles.
You know, nationally publishedor okay, they're being
nationally published in, likesenior photography magazines.
Okay, and I've been talkingabout that for years Like that's
(22:45):
not, that's not what we'retalking about here.
We're talking about, like youknow, actual publications.
Why would someone, why wouldsomeone as a photographer, even
want, like what could they dowith that piece of PR and how
could they leverage?
It is kind of like what I wantpeople to be thinking about too.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, I always think, as a CEO of your business, you
need to think about how do Iwork smarter and not harder.
We know that Instagramalgorithms are down.
Even our maybe 15% of youraudience sees anything that you
post.
Ads have gone up by 400%, andso when I'm talking about how do
I get simultaneously thatcredibility, that SEO traffic,
the long-term searchability, andhow do I get more sales, pr is
(23:28):
the only activity that checksall of those boxes, and so I
would much rather get on apodcast or get featured and turn
that into a social media post.
So I just think it's aboutworking smarter, not harder.
And also, if you have a verysaturated Photography is one of
those quite saturated industries.
How do you stand out from yourcompetition?
How do you convince that personof your portfolio?
(23:51):
And that stamp of approval issometimes the reason why someone
might work with you, right, orthat how you can justify higher
prices.
So, for all of those reasons, Ithink there's no better
marketing activity than PR, andit really just starts with you
stepping into that frequency oflike I deserve to be featured,
and I don't care how many yearsI've been in business.
I have a unique point of viewand I'm going to pitch it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, and I think that so many people like, okay,
for instance, my, my husband'san actor, right Like.
So for me, you know, even likewhen I started my business years
and years and years ago, Ididn't necessarily think like,
oh, I need PR, because in mymind, pr was someone we hired on
a monthly basis to get them onred carpets, right, and so, like
(24:36):
, I had a different sort of likeidea about PR.
But then I think it was aboutprobably three or four years
into my business and I was likeI need a PR agent, Right Like.
So I started thinking about itin different ways and then I was
like, wait a minute.
I obviously, like we weretalking about before, like
that's not built for these smallbusiness, like solopreneurs,
(24:57):
right, I can't afford thatmonthly payment to somebody.
And also, what are they goingto do with me?
Like, it's not like I want tobe on the red carpet or white
Lotus, I want to be seen wheremy clients can.
Like, what are they searchingfor?
So I'm glad that you brought upthis SEO part, because I kind
of scream about that a lot, andit is this like path of least
(25:20):
resistance, really, if you do itin a right way.
So you know your opportunity toget featured, let's say, in an
article, a news article,whatever.
That is an opportunity for somereally awesome SEO, for you to
show up and widen that audiencefor people who are already
looking for services that youcan offer.
That's the thing, and I lovethat.
(25:41):
You even said, like, okay,thinking about seasonal stuff.
All right, as a high schoolsenior photographer, we are
coming up on like, and I talkabout this every year at this
time.
I'm like you guys, spring,april and May are like the best
time to market your high schoolsenior business, because it is
just naturally the time of yearthat, like you're going to just
hop on that train.
Basically, you know we've gotproms, we've got end of year
(26:05):
stuff, like the energy isalready high, everybody's
already thinking about it,graduations on the mind, like
just on TikTok alone.
Like you see tons of thesevideos of these girls and
they're what dresses am Iwearing for my graduation?
What am I wearing under my capand gown?
Well, okay, why are you nottalking about that?
And also, I love the idea ofpitching, so, like if you were
(26:29):
going to tell some high schoolsenior photographers, I would
love to know, like, some of yourideas.
Um, with all of that in mind,right, and all of the things
that we do, what are some of thethings that they could even
like be doing to pitchthemselves, to get on that PR
train and to just like hijack it?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
basically so, so many .
So you know white Lotus istrending right now.
So can you do a white something?
White Lotus themed so many.
So you know White Lotus istrending right now.
So can you do something WhiteLotus themed?
Right, there's also this trendfor like nostalgia.
So can you do something that'slike 80s theme.
So what is the trend that'shappening?
Because here's the thing, likewe're sitting on a goldmine,
right.
Journalists aren't like tappedinto every single trend and so
(27:06):
if you pitch something thatyou're seeing, that's happening
in your community, you'rebasically a vessel of
information and you're tellingthe journalist hey, here's
something that's happening,here's something that people
really want and so they wouldwrite about it.
So don't think that you'repowerless.
You actually are really tappedinto your people.
So you know, pitch that trend,do that trend, and I think that
would be really interesting.
One of the things I love to dois to figure out what's trending
(27:28):
on social media.
So you know, like TikTok trendor Instagram trend, those also
really do well, and you canreally substantiate your pitch
by just saying again in the CPRmethod, the relevance part, and
say this you know, challenge orhashtag has like X million of
you know views, and so you'resubstantiating that right away.
You're saying this is relevantbecause just look at the number
(27:50):
of views.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, no, I love that there's so many ideas honestly,
so like if somebody's listeningand they're kind of fired up,
whether they're like you know,you can be about any niche,
really like I just kind ofwanted to use that as an example
, because it's been on my mindtoo and it's, you know, just
kind of been things I've beentalking about with my audience.
But the other piece of that,too, is that that's kind of why
(28:15):
we need to know what is going onas well.
Right, and so I know thatthere's a lot of I know it's a
lot to be online.
I hear this often from peoplein my audience like, well, you
know, I'm not a content creator,like I'm, I'm an artist, right,
like there's that whole vibeOkay, so what?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
do you have to say to people when they say that, yeah
Well, I will say that if you'rean artist, you're already
putting yourself out there,probably more vulnerably than
anyone else.
So to me, pr is a lessstressful activity.
You know you're already puttingyour art out there.
So if you're going to pitchyourself and talk about your art
(28:57):
, that seems to me like anatural extension and not as
intimidating.
So it's like you already havedone the hard part.
You've already put your stuffout there, so why not just get
out there more?
You know.
So I think that you know it'sup to us to really be our number
one advocate.
A lot of times I get it we tendto throw money at the problem.
Right, we want someone else todo it.
But learning how to pitchourselves, learning how to truly
take up space especially ifwe've been taught culturally or
(29:20):
societally just to be kind ofquiet, that is sacred work.
It's really powerful work.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, I agree, and I do wanna like mention too that
one of the things that I see alot of the resistance comes from
not knowing how, and that'sbecause they don't really know
what they're about.
Like, okay, yeah, you might bedoing this, you might be a
photographer, you might be acreative, but like why?
(29:49):
Right, like people, you know Iam always talking about like
people by why you do it, notwhat you do.
So that's up to you.
Like you really need to diginto that, and if you haven't
done those pieces, then pitchingyourself is going to feel
really weird because you don'tknow.
So, like, you definitely needto do that.
And you know, I know, that youwork with a lot of entrepreneurs
(30:10):
.
Is that a part of what you dowith them in your containers as
well?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
It's all about mindset, right, because I can
tell you that you need PR, butif you don't feel safe
advocating for yourself, if yougrew up culturally, for example,
I'm like five foot two and I'ma daughter of a widowed
immigrant who basically told menot to take up space and not
promote myself, right, soculturally it's rewiring a lot
of that.
Um, we're taught, especially aswomen, to make everyone else
(30:36):
look good.
Right, we advocate for everyoneelse, but isn't it time we kind
of gave that back to ourselves?
So it's a lot there.
It's so much more than justlogos and seo.
The more I do this work, themore I realize it's really about
creating a safe container forpeople to take up space, because
they just haven't felt safedoing that for a long time.
I mean, when I look out intothe media, I don't see a lot of
(30:57):
people who look like me, right,let alone telling other people
how to take up space.
So that's why I say this workis so much more than PR.
It's really sacred.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I love that.
It's so true.
Honestly, all your messagingyou guys and I'll put all your
links below because you guysdefinitely need to go follow her
she will give you a swift kickin the pants on the daily.
She's got some not just reallygood tips, but just everything
that you talk about, and I thinkit's just really needed and
(31:25):
necessary.
So, just as a side note, Idefinitely want to ask you a
couple of real quick lightninground questions, basically just
related to kind of what we'retalking about before we wrap up.
Specifically about, like I mean, you've really helped small
businesses get over a billionorganic views, which is kind of
(31:48):
insane.
Like that's a really amazingresult and I just think it's
wild and I feel like everybodyreally needs to, like you know,
pay attention here.
What are some of the thingsthat you've seen that are, like
media mistakes necessarily right, Like so what are some?
What are some things, or maybeeven just one thing, that is
something that we should be notdoing.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, I can definitely give you some tools,
but I think one of the things weshould not be doing is just
waiting around for someone tocome along.
Right, we know for sure that ifyou're not going to be taking
up space, somebody else will,and the news cycle is 24-7.
There is always a need forcontent, and so you're actually
doing the journalists a favor.
(32:30):
So a lot of times we think, ohwell, we're pestering the
journalists.
They're just used to it.
This is how the news works.
They're used to being pitched,they're used to aggressive PR,
people following up with them.
That's just how it's done.
So put your name in the hat.
I will give you some toolsdigital articles, publications,
(32:56):
stories around your keywords andit does two things.
One, it trains your brain tothink in terms of headlines
right, you become a betterwriter.
And second thing is that youcan click on the journalist's
name if it matches your you knowniche and you can put it into
an ever-expanding excelspreadsheet which becomes your
media contact list.
So you put the name and thenusually their email is there,
obviously in our program with anupdated global database, but
you can start to do it your own.
Another tool that's really goodis sign up for
(33:18):
sourceofsourcescom.
It's the new HARO, which standsfor Help a Reporter Out, which
is no longer Source of Sources.
Sign up as a source and you'llget all the inquiries of
journalists looking for peopleto interview.
I actually sent one of thethings for the photographer.
I think the inquiry was likelooking for ideas for family
photo shoots this spring and Isent it to a photographer friend
.
She got featured in Real Simplethe next day, so that's really
(33:40):
good as well.
Another thing you can do isfollow writers on Substack,
which is kind of a gold mine,and I just did a training on
this for my program.
But stuff stack is where a lotof journalists and writers are
going, because they want tostart to monetize your audience
and also get an email list.
So they will oftentimes sharewhat they're writing on that
week before they share anywhereelse.
(34:00):
So you can go down a rabbithole.
I follow a lot of journalistsand they'll tell me here's what
I'm working on this week, here'sexactly the magazine, whether
it's apartment therapy or welland good refinery, here's what I
need and here's the deadline.
And a lot of times you justsend it like then, right there
you'll.
You have a really high chanceof getting featured.
Um so that's, that's the thirdone.
(34:20):
The fourth tool is just tofollow hashtags on social media.
So you know X and LinkedIn andInstagram.
You can actually search forjournalists there, because
underneath your Instagramprofile you know how you can put
like creator, entrepreneur.
Journalist is also kind of afield, so if they would put that
they're a journalist and you'llsee what magazines they write
for, and a lot of times theirDMs are open.
They're humans and so we're notbothering them.
(34:43):
We're simply engaging withtheir content and I love a
little icebreaker of saying hey,I loved your article on XYZ, it
really inspired me and it makesthem feel good.
Right, you're making a humanconnection, just like you would
with a sales lead, so use that.
Compliment them, tell them howtheir work has affected you and
you never know, sooner or lateryou might get featured.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Those are such great tips.
Thank you so much.
Those are amazing.
All right, you guys.
I hope you were taking notes.
I would love for you to sharewith people where they can
follow up.
I think that you've got someother resources too, that they
can grab as well.
Let us know.
And also, where do you like toconnect with people?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, so I have a free PR training that actually
gives you step-by-step the CPRmethod so that you can start to
write your own.
I give you a screenshot ofexactly a pitch that I wrote
that got someone featured 12times so you can go to
GloriaChaoPRcom slashmasterclass.
That's Gloria C-H-O-U PRcomslash masterclass.
That's free.
You can watch it I had so manypeople watch it and get featured
right away.
I get random DMs from people,so that's absolutely free, and
(35:45):
I'm on Instagram.
I share a lot of my storyaround healing and just
generational trauma.
So that's at Gloria Chow PR.
And if you DM me the word Renee, I will give you an extra
special bonus so that you cantake that extra step to get
featured.
So DM me the word Renee.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Awesome.
I'll put all that in the shownotes for you guys too, so you
can just kind of click belowwhether you're either watching
this on YouTube or listening onyour favorite podcast platform,
so all that information will bethere.
But thank you so much forsharing all of that with us,
Like everything from the mindset, like you said, like all of
that is a piece of it right,Like so you couldn't do what
you're doing without thathealing part and that whole
(36:26):
sacred yeah.
It is like being in yourempowerment and you're living it
.
So thank you so much for beingsuch a great example for all of
us.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Thank you for being a light for so many people as
well.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So, if this lit a fire under you, check out the
links in the show notes.
Make sure you connect more withGloria.
Also, let me know how thisresonated with you and what
action you're going to takeafter listening to it, because
she definitely dropped someserious tips for you guys that I
hope you take advantage of.
I will die on this hill.
The world needs your art.
Okay, I know that times areweird and it can feel really
(37:00):
daunting and heavy anddepressing even to be a creative
during these times, but if youlook back on history, the thing
that gets all of us through anyhard time ever is always going
to be art.
So if you feel called to dothis, there's a reason for it.
Don't stop.
Okay, you just need to figureout a way to get in front of the
(37:21):
right people and I'm going tosay something a little unpopular
but all of those magazines andcontests that you can enter as a
photographer, specifically as asenior photographer, that you
have to pay to be a part of, andthen you get sort of chosen to
be like the top, this or the topthat it's always great to be
recognized Okay, it really is,and I totally get the idea.
(37:45):
I get why you would want toparticipate in those, but those
are not going to really get youin front of your target client
in the way that you hope.
Now, that's not to say yourclients don't appreciate being
chosen and having their imagesfeatured in some of those things
.
It's fun, it's always fun, butI'm talking about getting you
actual paying target clients.
That's what I'm talking about.
Those kinds of contests aregood for getting you in front of
(38:08):
your peers, but that's not whoyou're selling to.
I haven't participated in thosein years.
I find them to be a little bitof a popularity contest and not
anything of real substance.
I said what I said, sorry, but Ireally believe that you could
be spending your money and yourtime better, and today's episode
hopefully lit a fire under youto do so, because that's the
(38:29):
kind of PR that's actually goingto move the needle for your
business.
That's the kind of PR that'sactually going to get you jobs,
get you found, get youdiscovered and get you in front
of, hopefully, your targetclient.
So that's always what I'mthinking of when I'm thinking
about marketing, when I'mworking with photographers in
any capacity, whether it'sone-on-one, a group or just here
on this free podcast that Igive to you guys every week.
(38:50):
I want you to get paid.
Yes, I want you to do itbecause you love it, because
it's your passion, that's agiven.
But I want you to get paid, Iwant you to be profitable and I
want you to have access toeverything, no matter who you
are Okay, no matter where youcome from.
Really passionate about that.
So no gatekeeping here.
All right, I'm going to get offmy soapbox and I am going to
(39:10):
let you guys go connect withGloria.
Thank you again for joining mehere.
As always, I hope you have agreat rest of your week and a
great rest of your day, and thatyou are doing something good
for yourself.
Love you, bye.
But if you are a photographer or creative,
chances are you don't have the$5,000 to $10,000 a month for
six months minimum, which iswhat they charge in New York.
So then we think, OK, well thenwe don't get seen, and I just
absolutely refuse to accept that.
I think it's time for the restof us to be seen.
So from all the times that I'vepitched and gotten phone
slammed in my face and rejected,I picked up on cues on when the
(00:20):
journalists would respond.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And so let's talk about how to write a good pitch.
Welcome to Tried and True witha dash of woo, where we blend
rock solid tips with a littlebit of magic.
I'm Renee Bowen, your host,life and business coach and
professional photographer atyour service.
We are all about gettingcreative, diving into your
business and playing withmanifestation over here.
So are you ready to getinspired and have some fun?
Let's dive in.
To get inspired and have somefun, let's dive in.
(00:50):
Hey friends, welcome back toTried and True with a Dash of
Woo.
I am your host, renee Bowen.
I am back from my littletwo-week hiatus that I had with
the podcast and we are intoseason three.
I needed a little bit of abreak.
My son also graduated college.
He graduated with a performancedegree from Berklee School of
Music out in Boston, so we spenta little over a week watching
(01:11):
him play, watching him graduate,spending some time there,
seeing some family from the EastCoast, and it was just all
around an amazing little getaway.
So I appreciate you guyssticking with the podcast and
listening to some of my pastepisodes.
While I was away, I heard somefeedback from you guys over in
my DMs and I had sent some linksout to some previous episodes
(01:31):
because, yeah, we've got twofull seasons for you to devour.
If you haven't listened to someolder episodes, it might be a
good time to dig back in and seewhat I have in the archives for
you.
But today is a new episode andbefore we get into my amazing
guests today, I want to touch ontwo really important things,
because I have two reallyawesome resources for y'all in
(01:54):
very different sort of likeniches, but they're equally
amazing and I need to tell youabout them.
All the info on them is goingto be below in the show notes,
but I want to make sure I giveyou a little bit of insight into
why I'm involved with each ofthem and tell you a little bit
more about what each of thementails.
So, like I said, two completelydifferent topics One is AI and
(02:18):
one is photography.
You know that I don't like tofit into one little box.
I'm never going to.
So the first one is AI Unlocked.
It is an amazing summit thatyou don't like to fit into one
little box and I'm never goingto.
So the first one is AI Unlocked.
It is an amazing summit thatyou just absolutely have to
check out.
It's free.
Honestly, you guys over 50speakers talking about AI in
various different ways.
So if you are new to AI, thisis amazing.
(02:40):
But even if you are a seasonedAI user, you still need this
because chances are you're notusing it to its fullest
potential.
Now I've been talking about AIliterally since ChaiGPT was
announced.
I got it the day it came out.
So I have been an active, very,very prolific user of ChaiGPT
since it came out.
But there's so many other usesof AI now and also a lot of
(03:02):
people are just sort ofscratching the surface and how
they're using it.
There's so many things you cando with AI Now I haven't spoken
about a ton of it here on thepodcast because I speak mostly
about it honestly to my coachingstudents.
I help them build their ownGPTs, I help them craft plans
and funnels and marketing allsorts of things using their own
(03:23):
AI, and so I tend to talk moreabout it inside of my coaching
now, whether it's group coachingor one-on-one.
But I want to start talkingabout it more here.
So look for some more guestscoming up soon that are going to
be talking more about this, butin the meantime, this AI
Unlocked Summit that's happeningat the end of May.
You need to go ahead and getlocked into this early bird
(03:45):
situation because it is free,but if you upgrade to the VIP,
the early bird pricing ends soon, so go check it out.
The link is below.
I'm doing a presentation.
This is not like your run ofthe mill, basic stuff.
This is not like, oh, just putin this prompt.
No, this is like advanced level, like amazing information on
(04:06):
how to use AI to its fullestpotential in the most efficient
way, like I don't know if you'relike me, but I have multiple
things saved on, like TikTokReels, even on my browser, all
about AI, but I don't have timeto like dive into it at the
moment, so I just save it andthen I just kind of like it's
just there and I don't knowwhere it is.
If that's you too, thissummit's going to be amazing
(04:28):
because it's all in one placeand it's short, digestible but
really informative things.
And I am teaching all about NLP, neuro-linguistic programming,
how to use that with AI tocreate better and more effective
sales language.
So you definitely want to tuneinto that.
I'm super excited about it.
I'm really excited to just beinvolved in this.
(04:49):
My friend Gemma is putting iton.
This is her second year doingit and I think last year she had
over like 5,000 people sign up.
It is a really amazing summitthat it's free, so the link is
below Check it out.
Just sign up for it right nowand you will not be sorry, I
promise.
And the other amazing resource Iwant to tell you about, if
(05:11):
you're a photographer, is thatthis is the second year that I
am going to be participating inthe Milky Way Online Family
Retreat, which last year wasamazing.
I was teaching all abouteditorial posing for seniors,
and this year I'm going to beteaching you how to pose and
shoot guy seniors.
And also a little side note onhow you can make this profitable
(05:31):
if you're a family photographerand you're either not offering
full senior sessions yet, or youdon't want to, or maybe you
just want to figure out a way toserve your clients a little bit
better.
I kind of walk you through howyou can do this with guys,
especially because guys arenotorious for just like doing
this for their mom, right?
Like most of them don't reallywant to have, like this, full
editorial session, like a lot ofour girl clients do, but some
guys do.
However, most guys are justkind of like doing it for the
(05:54):
moms, and I walk you through howyou can make this quick and
painless and easy for your guyclient and also amazing for the
parents, and also how you canmake it profitable for you.
So I walk you through a fullsession, you shoot the guy
session with me, you edit thesession with me and then I also
give you a little bit ofbusiness education, too, on how
(06:14):
you can actually leverage thisand and make some money doing it
, cause that's ultimately what Iwant you to do and, just in
general, it's an amazing retreat, you guys.
Lisa does not put on reallyfluffy content, she's serious
about it, and it is an amazingresource for family
photographers, newbornphotographers and now senior
photographers, because this isthe second year in a row that I
(06:35):
am teaching you guys seniors.
Okay, let's get to today's guest, because we are talking all
about PR.
I'm always telling you guys,you got to be your own PR agent,
right, you got to be your owncheerleader, but today we're
going to talk about exactly howto do that.
My guest today is a powerhouseand you're going to absolutely
be obsessed with her.
Her name is Gloria Chow.
She's an award-winning PRstrategist and the host of the
(06:56):
top rated small business PRpodcast, so you can definitely
go find her there.
All her links are below in theshow notes, of course.
Known for her untraditional yetproven approach to PR, which
makes visibility and access tomedia accessible to anyone,
gloria helps BIPOC and femalefounders get featured
organically in top tier mediawithout needing PR connections
(07:17):
or a large following.
Her strategies have earnedsmall businesses in nearly every
industry niche over a billionorganic views and features in
outlets like the New York Times,oprah's Favorite Things, vogue
and Forbes, without any pay toplay.
And her background is superinteresting because she used to
be a US diplomat, which I thinkis fascinating, and now she is a
small business advocate andshe's also been on over 100
(07:40):
podcasts.
She was also named PitchWriting Expert of the year, so
she knows her stuff, and she'salso a Forbes next 1000 honoree.
So we go deep into all thedifferent ways that you need to
be putting yourself out there inan effective way.
That is not going to feel gross,it's not going to feel weird.
She's got some amazing tips foryou guys.
So grab a pen and a paper, takesome notes and get ready,
(08:01):
because here we go.
Hey Gloria, thanks so much forbeing here with us today.
I'm really excited about thisconversation because I don't
feel like it's one that we talkenough about, especially in the
photography and creative worlds.
That is PR.
But I kind of want to startwith how did you even get to
this place, right?
How did a US diplomat end upteaching small business owners
(08:22):
entrepreneurs how to pitchthemselves?
How did a US diplomat end upteaching small business owners
entrepreneurs how to pitchthemselves?
How did you even get into this?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, I'm really not your typical PR gal.
I actually never worked a dayin my life at a PR agency or
marketing agency, so I callmyself an outsider in many ways.
But I always lovedcommunication.
I was writing speeches for theambassador.
I just was always that.
I always say in my previouslife I was a hip hop emcee
because I just love beingeveryone's hype gal, I love
(08:51):
seeing people win, and I thoughtPR was pretty natural for me
because I was always connectingpeople and I really just loved
it when people felt seen, Ithink there's something magical
and sacred about that.
But when I got into thediplomatic corps, I was
bilingual, growing up bicultural.
I think there's somethingmagical and sacred about that.
But when I you know, when I gotinto the diplomatic corps, you
know I was bilingual, growing upbicultural.
I've always loved all thingsinternational relations.
I studied abroad, in SouthAfrica, but being in it is a
(09:14):
whole other story right being inthe government, being in
bureaucracy and I realized veryquickly that I'm really just not
meant for bureaucracy and I'mreally more of a creative, and
so that really was a bitsuffocating for me.
Even though I had a pension, Ihad a really stable career in
front of me.
It just wasn't a personalityfit for me at all.
So I just had to kind of have amidlife crisis and move back
(09:36):
home and kind of give thatcareer up and start from the
bottom.
And I remember one of myfriends was like well, you know,
if you want to do PR, you knowyou can get PR for us.
Like we're an early stageFinTech firm and, by the way, at
this point I applied for over athousand jobs in communications
and PR and nobody would hire mebecause they were all very
confused and they were like youknow, we're looking for a very
(09:56):
traditional PR agency experience.
And that's when I realized thatthis industry was really
gatekept and really traditional.
And so I was like, wow, therereally is a very straight path
for it and I'm just not fittingin the box.
So my friend was like we haveearly stage FinTech.
It's just me and the founders,we don't really have a budget,
but we'll pay you $250 if youcan get us in the news and $500
(10:17):
if you can get us on CNBC or aprimetime TV.
And I didn't have the contacts,I didn't know anybody, so I had
to literally I kid you not putin the Google search bar, new
York Times Newsroom, and I hadto just start to dial from zero
the operator with sweaty shakingpalms and just get rejected a
thousand times until I got themfinally onto all the different
(10:38):
networks and TV and I started topick up on patterns, on when
the journalists would actuallygive a damn, because, again, I
don't know them.
And now I turn this into a coldpitching method that I teach to
founders all around the worldto really start to advocate for
themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Okay, that is so cool .
There's so many pieces of thatthat are so cool.
I love the fact that youliterally had the awareness of
like yeah, this isn't for me,I'm going to do something else,
cause like that, right, there isreally hard for a lot of people
to even get to, right, I mean,I'm sure you see it too in our
world, right, like of people whojust they stay in these, in
(11:14):
these places, because they feellike either that's what they
should do Okay, this was what mydegree is or whatever, and it
was like no, you were like, nope, I'm not willing to do that.
And that's so interestingbecause, like, I know you from
online, right, like I didn'tknow that you had that
background until after we talkedabout you coming on the podcast
and I was like what?
Like I would never have thoughtlike you just seem like you are
(11:37):
so made for what you're doing.
Right, like you just shine sobright online, and so I found
that so interesting and I lovethat.
Just the takeaway for peopleLike, first of all, before we
even get into the PR aspect ofeverything, like you can kind of
do whatever the hell you wantto do.
You just need to like act on it.
So that's.
That's a cool thing.
I know it was scary too.
(11:58):
Obviously, as you know, thingsare like you said, but like also
, you didn't like take no for ananswer, you kept going.
So that's a really big piece ofit too.
And I mean, just before we evenget into the PR chatter, that
is something that a lot ofpeople deal with, just whether
they're photographers or not,creatives.
(12:19):
Just in general, pitchingyourself, putting yourself out
there, starting a business right, getting a lot of these no's,
getting a lot of rejections howdo you deal with that?
And what was that mindset piecefor you?
Like to keep you going?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
essentially, yeah, my husband always says that I'm
just really like shameless andrelentless and I always had it
in me and I just, you know, Ijust I don't really think that
it's ever a no, I just thinkit's just like not right now and
you find a different way and Ithink my threshold is just a lot
higher than most people, wherepeople would feel embarrassed or
they would say, okay, this is,and I would just keep going.
(12:58):
And it doesn't always work inyour favor, right, it hurts, but
I just think that once you killyour ego which is the process I
had to go through, you know, Iwas a US diplomat.
I had certain rights andprivileges, it was a prestigious
quote unquote job, and then togo from all over like the bottom
again, you know, you had to gothrough a period of death and
grieving your ego.
And I think once I realizedthat I'm going to be okay, like
(13:19):
I'm not going to be on thestreets, I can't, you know, I
don't have a lot of the luxuriesthat I used to, but I'm going
to be okay, and then I juststarted building from there and
I just became like, okay, thenit's fine, because what else
could happen?
What's the worst that couldhappen.
A journalist says no, I get aphone slammed in my face, but
what's the upside of it Is thatthey say yes, and my client
(13:40):
lands on national TV and that Ican keep building.
So I think at any point in timewe have to weigh our pros and
cons, and I always say this toall of our PR members is like
everything you want in life ison the other side of the send
button.
So send, just keep pressingthat send button, whether it's
to an editor, whether it's, youknow, to a client, and the worst
they can say is no.
And you know, I haven't had ajournalist like ever like
(14:03):
blacklist me or any of myclients, and I just really think
that we need to lean into that,because we're so far on the
other side we're like pitchingourselves as a radical act,
especially as women right,especially as women of color too
, that a lot of times we eitherdon't go there or we kind of
stop.
But if we just push a littlebit more and have that gumption,
that confidence, then you know,I think that so many
(14:24):
opportunities would.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, okay, you guys definitely soak that in, because
that's a really, reallypowerful message.
It's true, it's really true.
You got to just show up.
I love that.
So one of the things that youdo, and one of the things that I
love that you do is that youteach people how to be their own
PR agent, basically Just how todo this, how to stand in that,
(14:50):
and I would love for you to kindof walk us through what that
really means, like, maybe, how aphotographer, an artist, a
creative, can even kind of startshowing up that way, especially
when they feel who am I, youknow, like maybe they have a lot
of this underlying, maybe let'scall it imposter syndrome,
whatever you want to call it butlike this resistance to doing
(15:12):
that for themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah it's, it's so natural.
So don't feel like.
You know.
If you're listening to this athome you're like, oh, there's no
way I can do it.
Like it's, it's not your fault.
I think it's the conditioningfrom the, the industry, that
tells us we cannot pitchourselves or somehow that you
know it's.
It's kind of like scammy, likefor celebrities and politicians,
(15:37):
or you only need it if you'rein trouble.
And so I think that because noone has ever made it accessible
and it's been shrouded insecrecy and complexity, that of
course we don't know how topitch ourselves.
So it is unnatural.
But I promise you, journalistswant to hear from you.
They don't actually want tohear from a PR rep.
So let's just remove thatmiddle layer and teach you how
to do it yourself and you know,with an intern or assistant to
take it in-house, and you'regoing to feel not only that
you're a better writer, but thatkind of like tangential benefit
of like pitching yourself.
You're going to feel so muchmore empowered and confident.
(15:58):
It's going to transform andripple into every aspect of your
life.
So that's one thing I'venoticed is that journalists
don't actually need to speak toan intermediary, right?
Everyone that I've helped.
They just pitch themselves andactually journalists like that.
And another thing is thatthere's no such thing as a
newsworthy person or a story ora company.
I've written pitches forcandles and bath salts something
(16:20):
really boring and somethingreally esoteric and they get
featured.
So it's really about pitchingthe right way for the news cycle
.
And so instead of thinkingabout, am I newsworthy, let's
transform that into how can Ipitch for the season, how can I
pitch for the relevance of whatpeople are covering.
So if you are in spring, summer,what are the angles for outdoor
shoots?
Bridal graduation, right?
If you're in Q4, maybe it'ssomething wintry, warm, like
(16:41):
family portraits, somethingabout mental health, whatever.
That is Valentine's Day.
We had someone who is abourgeois photographer and she
got featured in well and goodfor a spread, for why a
bourgeois photography is thebest self-care gift this
Valentine's day.
So there's a blue ocean ofopportunity.
You just have to know that it'sout there for you.
So that's kind of the mindsetpart.
And when you boil it down, pris really simple.
(17:04):
It's two things it's writing apitch and sending it to the
right person.
And so if you know how to writeand I don't want to say a
newsworthy pitch, but a relevantpitch, and if you know who to
send it to you, put the two andtwo together.
You can create a system in yourbusiness and I can go into like
the nuts and bolts of exactlyhow do you find your angle and
then how do you actually findthese journalists online.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
I love that story too.
It's so true you got to usewhat's already there, what's
going on in the cycle, so takingyourself out of it and making
it not about you necessarily.
And how can what's so specialabout me?
Quote, unquote but like, well,okay, no, what does the story
really mean to the new cycle?
That's a really interestingthing that, I guarantee you, a
(17:48):
lot of people are probably notthinking about on their own.
So I would love for you to kindof talk about this three-step
process that you talk about,about getting PR, like you know,
without hiring an agencynecessarily.
I mean, it's so empowering,like.
Can you share a little bit moreabout that?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah.
So you know people always say,like you know I love to hate on
agencies.
It's not that I'm hating onagencies, I just think agencies
are not built for smallbusinesses.
They're built for bigcorporations that have tons of
money.
That you know can kind of justthrow money at the problem,
right.
But if you are a photographeror creative, chances are you
don't have the five to $10,000 amonth for six months minimum,
which is what they charge in NewYork.
(18:24):
So then we think, okay, wellthen we don't get seen, and I
just absolutely refuse to acceptthat.
I think it's time for the restof us to be seen.
So from all the times that I'vepitched and gotten phone slammed
in my face and rejected, Ipicked up on cues on when the
journalists would respond.
And so let's talk about how towrite a good pitch.
It's my CPR method, whichstands for credibility point of
view and relevance.
(18:45):
A good pitch needs to haverelevancy and specificity.
So you start with the subjectline.
The subject line is not goingto be your name, your company
name or the word pitch.
It's not going to be somethinggimmicky like oh I have
something for you, claire, right, it should read something like
you know five photography trendsfor, you know, in the Midwest,
or like you know best tools forcreatives doing XYZ.
(19:08):
So you see how it kind ofsubject line reads like it's
almost like an article.
Right, it gets to the point.
You're not burying the lead.
And then the email pitch isreally simple.
So you start with somethingthat's relevant because, boom,
right off the gate, you want tocatch them with the relevance.
So talk about what theirreaders are looking for, as your
readers are looking forcreative Halloween photo shoot
(19:29):
ideas, right.
Or, as we head into, mother'sDay as we head into.
So whatever that relevance is,it could be a season, it could
be a holiday, it could beweather related, it could be
something happening in popculture.
For example, we have a lot ofpeople in bridal.
So I know that Sophia Richie'swedding you know that kind of
minimalist glam was reallypopular, so maybe it's something
about that.
(19:50):
So think about how you can talkabout a pop culture trend,
whether it's in movies, whetherit's in celebrities, whether
it's on TikTok, right.
I also love something that'sdata informed.
So if you have some data, youcan use a third party data.
We have someone who is aspeaking coach for introverts
and she pulled up a third partydata and she started her email
with you know, I've actuallyseen that research shows that
(20:11):
certain introverts are actuallybetter suited for leadership
positions than extroverts.
So I love that, because that'sboth a contrarian point of view
that goes against what we think,and also using data.
So those are all the kind ofdifferent ways you can start to
think about your industry.
Another way to think aboutrelevancy is what's changed in
your industry?
Right, with AI, with so manythings happening, I don't care
what industry you're in, but weare having an incredible amount
(20:34):
of change on every levelsocioeconomic, mental,
relational.
What is that right?
So those are all the ways youcan think about relevancy.
So put that in the firstparagraph.
And then the point of view inCPR stands for three things.
So it's either bullet points orlists.
It could be tips or ideas orinsights, and then you wrap the
email up with credibility one ortwo sentences about how long
you've been doing this, whetheror not you've been featured, why
(20:57):
this is important to you.
Don't go crazy with yourbiography here.
Right, being a mompreneur isnot enough, but you have
something that is superinteresting, then talk about it,
but don't go crazy Again, oneto two to three sentences.
You can put a hyperlink.
I love hyperlinks because itsaves you from their spam filter
.
Don't attach a huge attachment.
If you have something visual,feel free to put up to three low
(21:22):
res photos, but again, youdon't want it to be like crazy
amount of download because it'sgoing to.
So that's kind of the anatomy ofthis CPR pitch.
I call it pretty golden.
You're not writing the articlefor the journalist, right?
That's a contributor piece.
You're giving them just enoughto say that you're an authority
in this niche and that you haveideas for them.
And that's really the point ofthe pitch is for them to say,
okay, well, tell me more, and sothat's really how you have it.
(21:44):
I can go into more, but weobviously don't have time for
that.
But like follow-up etiquette,that's really kind of a CPR
framework of how you can pitchto anyone who doesn't know you
and get a yes from the otherside.
I have people use this forspeaking for awards, for selling
their stuff to retailers,wholesalers.
So the CPR framework is reallykind of the foundation.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, I was going to say, I bet this can be used for
various things.
I'm glad you brought that up.
But what's standing out to metoo a little bit, and I kind of
want to like backtrack just alittle bit and even kind of talk
about all right so why is thiseven important?
Right Like so, a lot ofphotographers, especially like
in my world as a high schoolsenior photographer right Like
(22:24):
so, I have, you know, a lot ofpeople in my audience who work
with high school seniors, whichis a very like sort of specific
niche within a niche, I wouldsay, and you know, you'll see a
lot on their, their profiles.
You know, nationally publishedor okay, they're being
nationally published in, likesenior photography magazines.
Okay, and I've been talkingabout that for years Like that's
(22:45):
not, that's not what we'retalking about here.
We're talking about, like youknow, actual publications.
Why would someone, why wouldsomeone as a photographer, even
want, like what could they dowith that piece of PR and how
could they leverage?
It is kind of like what I wantpeople to be thinking about too.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, I always think, as a CEO of your business, you
need to think about how do Iwork smarter and not harder.
We know that Instagramalgorithms are down.
Even our maybe 15% of youraudience sees anything that you
post.
Ads have gone up by 400%, andso when I'm talking about how do
I get simultaneously thatcredibility, that SEO traffic,
the long-term searchability, andhow do I get more sales, pr is
(23:28):
the only activity that checksall of those boxes, and so I
would much rather get on apodcast or get featured and turn
that into a social media post.
So I just think it's aboutworking smarter, not harder.
And also, if you have a verysaturated Photography is one of
those quite saturated industries.
How do you stand out from yourcompetition?
How do you convince that personof your portfolio?
(23:51):
And that stamp of approval issometimes the reason why someone
might work with you, right, orthat how you can justify higher
prices.
So, for all of those reasons, Ithink there's no better
marketing activity than PR, andit really just starts with you
stepping into that frequency oflike I deserve to be featured,
and I don't care how many yearsI've been in business.
I have a unique point of viewand I'm going to pitch it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, and I think that so many people like, okay,
for instance, my, my husband'san actor, right Like.
So for me, you know, even likewhen I started my business years
and years and years ago, Ididn't necessarily think like,
oh, I need PR, because in mymind, pr was someone we hired on
a monthly basis to get them onred carpets, right, and so, like
(24:36):
, I had a different sort of likeidea about PR.
But then I think it was aboutprobably three or four years
into my business and I was likeI need a PR agent, Right Like.
So I started thinking about itin different ways and then I was
like, wait a minute.
I obviously, like we weretalking about before, like
that's not built for these smallbusiness, like solopreneurs,
(24:57):
right, I can't afford thatmonthly payment to somebody.
And also, what are they goingto do with me?
Like, it's not like I want tobe on the red carpet or white
Lotus, I want to be seen wheremy clients can.
Like, what are they searchingfor?
So I'm glad that you brought upthis SEO part, because I kind
of scream about that a lot, andit is this like path of least
(25:20):
resistance, really, if you do itin a right way.
So you know your opportunity toget featured, let's say, in an
article, a news article,whatever.
That is an opportunity for somereally awesome SEO, for you to
show up and widen that audiencefor people who are already
looking for services that youcan offer.
That's the thing, and I lovethat.
(25:41):
You even said, like, okay,thinking about seasonal stuff.
All right, as a high schoolsenior photographer, we are
coming up on like, and I talkabout this every year at this
time.
I'm like you guys, spring,april and May are like the best
time to market your high schoolsenior business, because it is
just naturally the time of yearthat, like you're going to just
hop on that train.
Basically, you know we've gotproms, we've got end of year
(26:05):
stuff, like the energy isalready high, everybody's
already thinking about it,graduations on the mind, like
just on TikTok alone.
Like you see tons of thesevideos of these girls and
they're what dresses am Iwearing for my graduation?
What am I wearing under my capand gown?
Well, okay, why are you nottalking about that?
And also, I love the idea ofpitching, so, like if you were
(26:29):
going to tell some high schoolsenior photographers, I would
love to know, like, some of yourideas.
Um, with all of that in mind,right, and all of the things
that we do, what are some of thethings that they could even
like be doing to pitchthemselves, to get on that PR
train and to just like hijack it?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
basically so, so many .
So you know white Lotus istrending right now.
So can you do a white something?
White Lotus themed so many.
So you know White Lotus istrending right now.
So can you do something WhiteLotus themed?
Right, there's also this trendfor like nostalgia.
So can you do something that'slike 80s theme.
So what is the trend that'shappening?
Because here's the thing, likewe're sitting on a goldmine,
right.
Journalists aren't like tappedinto every single trend and so
(27:06):
if you pitch something thatyou're seeing, that's happening
in your community, you'rebasically a vessel of
information and you're tellingthe journalist hey, here's
something that's happening,here's something that people
really want and so they wouldwrite about it.
So don't think that you'repowerless.
You actually are really tappedinto your people.
So you know, pitch that trend,do that trend, and I think that
would be really interesting.
One of the things I love to dois to figure out what's trending
(27:28):
on social media.
So you know, like TikTok trendor Instagram trend, those also
really do well, and you canreally substantiate your pitch
by just saying again in the CPRmethod, the relevance part, and
say this you know, challenge orhashtag has like X million of
you know views, and so you'resubstantiating that right away.
You're saying this is relevantbecause just look at the number
(27:50):
of views.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, no, I love that there's so many ideas honestly,
so like if somebody's listeningand they're kind of fired up,
whether they're like you know,you can be about any niche,
really like I just kind ofwanted to use that as an example
, because it's been on my mindtoo and it's, you know, just
kind of been things I've beentalking about with my audience.
But the other piece of that,too, is that that's kind of why
(28:15):
we need to know what is going onas well.
Right, and so I know thatthere's a lot of I know it's a
lot to be online.
I hear this often from peoplein my audience like, well, you
know, I'm not a content creator,like I'm, I'm an artist, right,
like there's that whole vibeOkay, so what?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
do you have to say to people when they say that, yeah
Well, I will say that if you'rean artist, you're already
putting yourself out there,probably more vulnerably than
anyone else.
So to me, pr is a lessstressful activity.
You know you're already puttingyour art out there.
So if you're going to pitchyourself and talk about your art
(28:57):
, that seems to me like anatural extension and not as
intimidating.
So it's like you already havedone the hard part.
You've already put your stuffout there, so why not just get
out there more?
You know.
So I think that you know it'sup to us to really be our number
one advocate.
A lot of times I get it we tendto throw money at the problem.
Right, we want someone else todo it.
But learning how to pitchourselves, learning how to truly
take up space especially ifwe've been taught culturally or
(29:20):
societally just to be kind ofquiet, that is sacred work.
It's really powerful work.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, I agree, and I do wanna like mention too that
one of the things that I see alot of the resistance comes from
not knowing how, and that'sbecause they don't really know
what they're about.
Like, okay, yeah, you might bedoing this, you might be a
photographer, you might be acreative, but like why?
(29:49):
Right, like people, you know Iam always talking about like
people by why you do it, notwhat you do.
So that's up to you.
Like you really need to diginto that, and if you haven't
done those pieces, then pitchingyourself is going to feel
really weird because you don'tknow.
So, like, you definitely needto do that.
And you know, I know, that youwork with a lot of entrepreneurs
(30:10):
.
Is that a part of what you dowith them in your containers as
well?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
It's all about mindset, right, because I can
tell you that you need PR, butif you don't feel safe
advocating for yourself, if yougrew up culturally, for example,
I'm like five foot two and I'ma daughter of a widowed
immigrant who basically told menot to take up space and not
promote myself, right, soculturally it's rewiring a lot
of that.
Um, we're taught, especially aswomen, to make everyone else
(30:36):
look good.
Right, we advocate for everyoneelse, but isn't it time we kind
of gave that back to ourselves?
So it's a lot there.
It's so much more than justlogos and seo.
The more I do this work, themore I realize it's really about
creating a safe container forpeople to take up space, because
they just haven't felt safedoing that for a long time.
I mean, when I look out intothe media, I don't see a lot of
(30:57):
people who look like me, right,let alone telling other people
how to take up space.
So that's why I say this workis so much more than PR.
It's really sacred.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I love that.
It's so true.
Honestly, all your messagingyou guys and I'll put all your
links below because you guysdefinitely need to go follow her
she will give you a swift kickin the pants on the daily.
She's got some not just reallygood tips, but just everything
that you talk about, and I thinkit's just really needed and
(31:25):
necessary.
So, just as a side note, Idefinitely want to ask you a
couple of real quick lightninground questions, basically just
related to kind of what we'retalking about before we wrap up.
Specifically about, like I mean, you've really helped small
businesses get over a billionorganic views, which is kind of
(31:48):
insane.
Like that's a really amazingresult and I just think it's
wild and I feel like everybodyreally needs to, like you know,
pay attention here.
What are some of the thingsthat you've seen that are, like
media mistakes necessarily right, Like so what are some?
What are some things, or maybeeven just one thing, that is
something that we should be notdoing.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, I can definitely give you some tools,
but I think one of the things weshould not be doing is just
waiting around for someone tocome along.
Right, we know for sure that ifyou're not going to be taking
up space, somebody else will,and the news cycle is 24-7.
There is always a need forcontent, and so you're actually
doing the journalists a favor.
(32:30):
So a lot of times we think, ohwell, we're pestering the
journalists.
They're just used to it.
This is how the news works.
They're used to being pitched,they're used to aggressive PR,
people following up with them.
That's just how it's done.
So put your name in the hat.
I will give you some toolsdigital articles, publications,
(32:56):
stories around your keywords andit does two things.
One, it trains your brain tothink in terms of headlines
right, you become a betterwriter.
And second thing is that youcan click on the journalist's
name if it matches your you knowniche and you can put it into
an ever-expanding excelspreadsheet which becomes your
media contact list.
So you put the name and thenusually their email is there,
obviously in our program with anupdated global database, but
you can start to do it your own.
Another tool that's really goodis sign up for
(33:18):
sourceofsourcescom.
It's the new HARO, which standsfor Help a Reporter Out, which
is no longer Source of Sources.
Sign up as a source and you'llget all the inquiries of
journalists looking for peopleto interview.
I actually sent one of thethings for the photographer.
I think the inquiry was likelooking for ideas for family
photo shoots this spring and Isent it to a photographer friend
.
She got featured in Real Simplethe next day, so that's really
(33:40):
good as well.
Another thing you can do isfollow writers on Substack,
which is kind of a gold mine,and I just did a training on
this for my program.
But stuff stack is where a lotof journalists and writers are
going, because they want tostart to monetize your audience
and also get an email list.
So they will oftentimes sharewhat they're writing on that
week before they share anywhereelse.
(34:00):
So you can go down a rabbithole.
I follow a lot of journalistsand they'll tell me here's what
I'm working on this week, here'sexactly the magazine, whether
it's apartment therapy or welland good refinery, here's what I
need and here's the deadline.
And a lot of times you justsend it like then, right there
you'll.
You have a really high chanceof getting featured.
Um so that's, that's the thirdone.
(34:20):
The fourth tool is just tofollow hashtags on social media.
So you know X and LinkedIn andInstagram.
You can actually search forjournalists there, because
underneath your Instagramprofile you know how you can put
like creator, entrepreneur.
Journalist is also kind of afield, so if they would put that
they're a journalist and you'llsee what magazines they write
for, and a lot of times theirDMs are open.
They're humans and so we're notbothering them.
(34:43):
We're simply engaging withtheir content and I love a
little icebreaker of saying hey,I loved your article on XYZ, it
really inspired me and it makesthem feel good.
Right, you're making a humanconnection, just like you would
with a sales lead, so use that.
Compliment them, tell them howtheir work has affected you and
you never know, sooner or lateryou might get featured.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Those are such great tips.
Thank you so much.
Those are amazing.
All right, you guys.
I hope you were taking notes.
I would love for you to sharewith people where they can
follow up.
I think that you've got someother resources too, that they
can grab as well.
Let us know.
And also, where do you like toconnect with people?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, so I have a free PR training that actually
gives you step-by-step the CPRmethod so that you can start to
write your own.
I give you a screenshot ofexactly a pitch that I wrote
that got someone featured 12times so you can go to
GloriaChaoPRcom slashmasterclass.
That's Gloria C-H-O-U PRcomslash masterclass.
That's free.
You can watch it I had so manypeople watch it and get featured
right away.
I get random DMs from people,so that's absolutely free, and
(35:45):
I'm on Instagram.
I share a lot of my storyaround healing and just
generational trauma.
So that's at Gloria Chow PR.
And if you DM me the word Renee, I will give you an extra
special bonus so that you cantake that extra step to get
featured.
So DM me the word Renee.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Awesome.
I'll put all that in the shownotes for you guys too, so you
can just kind of click belowwhether you're either watching
this on YouTube or listening onyour favorite podcast platform,
so all that information will bethere.
But thank you so much forsharing all of that with us,
Like everything from the mindset, like you said, like all of
that is a piece of it right,Like so you couldn't do what
you're doing without thathealing part and that whole
(36:26):
sacred yeah.
It is like being in yourempowerment and you're living it
.
So thank you so much for beingsuch a great example for all of
us.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Thank you for being a light for so many people as
well.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So, if this lit a fire under you, check out the
links in the show notes.
Make sure you connect more withGloria.
Also, let me know how thisresonated with you and what
action you're going to takeafter listening to it, because
she definitely dropped someserious tips for you guys that I
hope you take advantage of.
I will die on this hill.
The world needs your art.
Okay, I know that times areweird and it can feel really
(37:00):
daunting and heavy anddepressing even to be a creative
during these times, but if youlook back on history, the thing
that gets all of us through anyhard time ever is always going
to be art.
So if you feel called to dothis, there's a reason for it.
Don't stop.
Okay, you just need to figureout a way to get in front of the
(37:21):
right people and I'm going tosay something a little unpopular
but all of those magazines andcontests that you can enter as a
photographer, specifically as asenior photographer, that you
have to pay to be a part of, andthen you get sort of chosen to
be like the top, this or the topthat it's always great to be
recognized Okay, it really is,and I totally get the idea.
(37:45):
I get why you would want toparticipate in those, but those
are not going to really get youin front of your target client
in the way that you hope.
Now, that's not to say yourclients don't appreciate being
chosen and having their imagesfeatured in some of those things
.
It's fun, it's always fun, butI'm talking about getting you
actual paying target clients.
That's what I'm talking about.
Those kinds of contests aregood for getting you in front of
(38:08):
your peers, but that's not whoyou're selling to.
I haven't participated in thosein years.
I find them to be a little bitof a popularity contest and not
anything of real substance.
I said what I said, sorry, but Ireally believe that you could
be spending your money and yourtime better, and today's episode
hopefully lit a fire under youto do so, because that's the
(38:29):
kind of PR that's actually goingto move the needle for your
business.
That's the kind of PR that'sactually going to get you jobs,
get you found, get youdiscovered and get you in front
of, hopefully, your targetclient.
So that's always what I'mthinking of when I'm thinking
about marketing, when I'mworking with photographers in
any capacity, whether it'sone-on-one, a group or just here
on this free podcast that Igive to you guys every week.
(38:50):
I want you to get paid.
Yes, I want you to do itbecause you love it, because
it's your passion, that's agiven.
But I want you to get paid, Iwant you to be profitable and I
want you to have access toeverything, no matter who you
are Okay, no matter where youcome from.
Really passionate about that.
So no gatekeeping here.
All right, I'm going to get offmy soapbox and I am going to
(39:10):
let you guys go connect withGloria.
Thank you again for joining mehere.
As always, I hope you have agreat rest of your week and a
great rest of your day, and thatyou are doing something good
for yourself.
Love you, bye.
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