January 8, 2024 • 38 mins
Welcome to the chilling world of unsolved mysteries, which refuses to release its grip on our darkest curiosities. I am J.K. Richards, and I invite you into the perplexing world of the Sims Family Slaying, a saga that stands as a stark reminder of the fragility of civilized life and suburban tranquility. Amidst the festivities of this Holiday Season, we cast our minds back to 1966, where the discovery of a heinous crime sparked fear across Tallahassee, Florida State, and the United States. We dissect the eerie and threatening confession of Robert Howells to his wife of less than twenty-four hours, their subsequent domestic turmoil, and lay bare the underbelly of a neighborhood transformed into an enclave of suspicion, accusation, and hyper vigilance.
As we traverse the labyrinth of terror, suspicion, and Occult superstition that emerges in the wake of the Sims Family Slaying, we scrutinize the involvement of young Tommy Fulgrim, a figure both enigmatic and tragic. His tale intertwines with the darkest threads of this case, leading to an obsession with demonology that culminated in another horrifying event years later. The stakes are high, as we scratch beneath the surface of mental illness and its role in the inexorable descent into violence, piecing together a puzzle that has confounded investigators and haunted a community for decades.
Prepare for an exploration of the unceasing dedication of Ron Stocks, whose resolve in the face of inconclusive evidence brings us face to face with the specter of unresolved justice. The unfolding narrative leads us to the brink of new revelations, where the most bizarre suspects are yet to be revealed. Join me as we honor the commitment of those who seek answers and remember those who were lost, in an episode that promises to be as harrowing as it is enlightening—a true crime tale that will linger long after the final words have been spoken.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I am JK Richards, the founder, creator and host of
your beloved True Crime series,where we treat crimes seriously
as your mysterious, murderousand macabre podcast In the past
and still to this day.
I am a criminal defenseattorney, where I view, assess,
investigate, analyze andreassess evidence again and
again.
If you are one looking for truestories of mystery, intrigue,
(00:49):
vice, corruption, may himviolent malevolence, jealousy,
greed, assault, insult, murderand the macabre, well, you are
in the right place.
Well, hello there folks and yes, that was my whistling that you
(01:23):
heard.
Happy holidays.
I'm recording this, orbeginning recording this, on
January 7th 2024.
So, happy new year, happyholidays.
I hope you were all safe andhappy.
I hope some of you got a chanceto listen to one or two of my
podcasts or more, and I justsincerely wish for the best for
all of you in this coming yearand in the future.
(01:43):
I've always loved the new yearand the holiday season and
everything that comes with it,every aspect of it.
It just makes me happy.
I'm happy to be here and I'mhappy that you're here with me,
and I hope that you'll bringmore people along with you to
take part in, hopefully, whatyou consider to be great
experiences here in listening tomy podcast.
As you all already know, or ifyou don't know, I am your host,
(02:06):
jk Richards, and my only holidaywish to you is go leave a
five-star review, if you like,my podcasts on Apple Podcasts
and Tell a Friend or Ten aboutthis podcast, and with nothing
more than that we're on to ourstory.
So, as you know, or if youdon't know, this is the third
(02:28):
installment, the third part, ofthe Sims Family Slaying and, as
has become my custom, I wouldlike to provide you in this
episode just a brief, briefreview of what occurred in part
one and part two, just don'twant you to get lost in the
story.
We are in Tallahassee, florida,which is the capital of Florida,
and, just to remind you, it'sin the far north and on the
(02:49):
northern border of Florida.
It's 1966, specifically October22nd 1966, and we're there with
the Sims Family, which iscomprised of Helen Sully Sims,
robert Wilson Sims, phd, jennySims, who's 17, judy Sims, who's
16, and Joy Sims, who is 12.
Jenny comes home frombabysitting and, in short, she
(03:12):
finds her mother, father andyoungest sister, joy, stabbed
and or shot, and all dead ordying.
Both the Sheriff's Office andthe city police begin
investigating city policeofficers trample the crime scene
, even putting on a pot ofcoffee inside the Sims Family
home, which is the crime scene.
The entire home is the crimescene and the Sheriff's Office
(03:34):
ousts the city police departmentand they take over the
investigation in full.
Helen Sims worked for the headpastor at the Family's Church,
the first Baptist Church, dr CARoberts.
Helen Sims had quit her jobjust days before the Family's
slang and it was laterdiscovered that Dr CA Roberts
was having affairs with dozensof women from his congregation.
(03:56):
And in a very brief nutshell,that is where I left you off in
part two of the Sims Family'sslang.
Now, if you haven't listened topart two yet, go back and
listen at least to the end ofpart two and I'll see you next
time.
Not long before the familymurder.
So essentially, what you'veheard so far is how the first
(04:20):
suspect was identified and whothe first suspect was.
But as I told you in part twoof the Sims Family Sling, I'm
not going to give you theconclusion of what occurs with
Dr C A Roberts as a suspect inthis case until I identify for
you all of the suspects in thiscase, and I've not alluded to
this yet, but there end up beingquite a few.
(04:41):
In fact, this case, I promisefor you, is going to become a
maddening head scratcher.
By the end of this case you'regoing to be going in circles and
circles upon circles uponcircles of theory, of analysis,
of questions, of wondering and,ultimately, confusion.
But I promise it's amaddeningly delightful confusion
(05:04):
and I'm going to do the samething with every suspect until
I've introduced all of them andtold you their stories and how
they became suspects.
I'm not going to get into whatthe police ultimately found,
what they were able to excludeand, in the end, who remain
suspects.
What I can also promiseabsolutely is you're going to
love this ride.
(05:26):
Okay, so suspect number two is aman by the name of Robert
Howells.
Now, there's not a ton knownabout Mr Howells and I really
couldn't find as much as I wouldhave liked to about Mr Howells
and his wife Peggy.
The two of them were married onDecember 21st 1966.
So a few months after the Simsfamily slaying the day after
(05:51):
their marriage, the two of themare driving from Tallahassee,
where they live, to AlligatorPoint to Honeymoon.
During this drive, robertHowells begins telling his wife
Peggy in graphic detail, actionby action exactly how he
murdered Joy Sims first, theyoung, innocent, beautiful,
smart 12-year-old girl, thenHelen Sims second and finally
(06:15):
Robert Sims.
His wife, peggy, of exactly oneday is stunned and traumatized
by what he's telling her, so shejust lets him talk and talk.
He does the entire drive andthat drive is approximately 50
miles, from what I can tell, viawhat looks like an interstate
(06:35):
highway.
It's 42.9 miles.
But my guess is that thatinterstate didn't exist at the
time and that the longer route,47.8 miles, was the route
commonly used.
I'm guessing, don't know that,I'm just guessing and that's at
speeds traveled in modern times,back in 1966, I would expect
the drive to take considerablylonger because the top speed
(06:59):
probably was about 50 miles anhour, maybe 55, somewhere in
that range.
Now, alligator Point is thisbeautiful beach that is
basically directly south bysouthwest of Tallahassee, and if
you think about the Gulf ofMexico, that body of water, and
about Florida and how Floridajuts out from the United States
(07:21):
and as it comes into the UnitedStates, there is this very large
bay or bend where the landmassslightly goes into the United
States and then comes back outagain and then goes back towards
the United States again andthen kind of evens out flat,
heading west at that point on anearly direct east-west line to
(07:42):
New Orleans.
Well, alligator Point is justwest of the pinnacle of that
very large first bend of watermass coming into towards the
United States before it goesback out.
So Robert and Piggy Hells areon this drive from Tallahassee
to Alligator Point on theirhoneymoon and Roberts tells her
(08:03):
this horrible, graphic,traumatizing story of murder.
And then Robert warns Piggythat she'd better stay in line
as his wife or he will kill her.
And from some reports that Iread, actually many men in
Tallahassee and possibly inFlorida as well, but at least in
Tallahassee were telling theirwives this kind of thing.
(08:24):
Now I think it is a certainkind of man that would do that
not all, but apparently this wassomething that was happening.
Now.
Certainly, today is a verydifferent society that we live
in than the society that existedin the United States in 1966.
We've come a long way sincethen, though we're still not
perfect.
But I want to point out beingthat I'm someone who can speak
(08:46):
with authority on this subjectthat I hope everyone out there
realizes and understands that athreat like this is a crime.
Not only that, but it alsopotentially in my mind more than
potentially gives rise to veryserious civil liability in the
civil courts Now, not so much inthe divorce arena, because,
(09:07):
unlike back in 1966, theentirety of the United States
now, as far as I'm aware, has nofault divorce.
Back then you had to prove or beable to prove certain specific
things that put you legallyquote unquote at fault, which
then enabled the other party toget a divorce.
We don't have that anymore.
(09:27):
All you have to state or citeto in a divorce proceeding these
days is irreconcilabledifferences or, depending on the
state and jurisdiction, you'rein some variation of that, but
you don't have to proveaffirmatively anything to be
legally enabled to be able toget a divorce.
That used to be the case, andI'm quite certain it was the
(09:48):
case in 1966.
Back to my point, though makingsuch threats gives rise to very
significant civil liability if,for example, a spouse were to
civilly sue, not in a divorce ora divorce action, but civilly
sue their spouse or formerspouse for, for example,
intentional infliction ofemotional distress, which is
(10:09):
actually a real thing.
Many people think that that'sjust something you hear about or
see on TV or in movies.
It actually really is somethingthat can be sued for.
And if you tell your spouse oryour partner or anyone hey, I
committed this murder, thisgrisly, horrible murder,
including murdering a child, andif you don't do what I want,
I'm going to do the same to you,yeah, that's intentional
(10:32):
infliction of emotional distressall day long, and you can
recover for that.
Divorce proceedings are aboutgetting divorced and about
fairly and equitably not equallyequitably distributing the
marital assets.
A criminal action only has todo with criminal conduct.
A civil suit like what I'mmentioning must be based on a
(10:52):
legal theory in civil law thatallows for recovery of certain
damages and intentionalinfliction of emotional distress
and damages that flow from.
It absolutely exists under thelaw as a path and mechanism to
recover for that kind of harm.
And I guess the reason that I'mgoing into this a little bit
extensively is it absolutelyblows my mind when people say
(11:17):
these very scary, horriblyoutlandish, vague and
threatening type statementsmeant to cause the other person
extreme fear, and especiallywhen it involves fear for their
own life, which is exactly whatRobert Hells did here.
Now, on this point in subject,I've actually had clients
criminal defense clients andpossibly divorcing clients who
(11:40):
at some point were accused ofmaking not this same statement
about murder but some kind ofscary or threatening statement
to a spouse.
I've had the argument made backto me no, they can't, meaning no
, they can't sue me or testifyagainst me, either in a criminal
matter or in a civil lawsuitwhere they sue me because of
(12:01):
spousal privilege.
And there is a privilege, justlike the attorney-client
privilege, which involves theattorney keeping the client's
secrets with regard to what theclient communicates to the
attorney.
There's a similar privilegebetween husband and wife that
exists under certaincircumstances and depending on
the state or jurisdiction thatyou live in.
(12:21):
It works differently indifferent states but to some
extent when this privilegeexists in general, one spouse
cannot be forced or made totestify against their spouse.
But people look, please have abrain.
You can't and I hope no one canactually believe that you can
commit a criminal offense or acivilly liable offense against
(12:43):
your spouse and then expectyou're going to be able to get
off scot-free because of spousalprivilege, where you have the
ability under that privilege tokeep them from testifying, in
other words, telling the courtor the jury what their spouse
did to them.
That's not a thing.
I've had the argument made tome before.
I was stunned by the argumentand I just want to set the
(13:05):
record straight.
That's not a thing.
If you commit a criminaloffense against your spouse,
spousal privilege is not goingto protect you, and if you
commit a civilly liable offenseagainst your spouse, that's not
going to protect you.
Your rights end where actiontaken by you or where your
rights themselves would harm orinfringe on somebody else's
rights Life, liberty, thepursuit of happiness and
(13:28):
presumably none of us wouldconsider being told hey, do what
I say, stay in line or I'mgoing to murder you to be part
of our pursuit of happiness.
Okay, enough about that andback to the story.
So Robert Howells makes thesestatements, tells the story and
makes these threats to PeggyHowells, his wife of one day
less than one day, I'm surewhile driving to their honeymoon
(13:51):
.
And in turn Ms Peggy Howellswrites a letter or letters the
reports are a little unclearabout this to police detailing
what he had admitted to.
So a plan is hatched betweenPeggy Howells and law
enforcement.
They're going to try and getRobert Howells on a tape
(14:13):
recording admitting to the Simsfamily slang.
Law enforcement and Peggy workpains taking me to try and set
this up.
This has to work, especiallygiven the violent and
threatening nature of RobertHowells in his relationship with
his wife.
Bear in mind, she's justmarried this guy and I'm
presuming that she did love himand did want to marry him and
(14:37):
didn't marry him under duress,and yet she's so scared of this
man that she believes he's acredible threat as far as murder
of a father, mother and a youngchild go.
There's not a lot of room forerror here and the stakes are
very high.
Peggy Howells, given theoverall context of this and
(15:00):
shown by her action to contactlaw enforcement about Robert
Howells supposed involvement inthe Sims family, slang shows us
that Peggy Howells must havebeen in utter fear for her own
life.
She believed Robert Howells'threat that he will murder her.
(15:20):
I don't see how it can beotherwise, for if she didn't
believe this, I feel that thatwould mean she didn't believe
Robert Howells' claim that hecommitted the Sims family
murders.
So under this extremely highstakes situation, peggy Howells
moves forward in cooperationwith law enforcement.
(15:42):
In 1966, a time when recordingdevices are large, clunky, I
can't imagine they're easy tohide to attempt to get a
confession on tape from RobertHowells.
How do you think it went?
I mean I didn't see therecording device but I think I
would be pretty highly suspectif I'm Peggy Howells considering
(16:07):
moving forward, trying to getthis recording for law
enforcement.
Now, before we move forwardwith this part of the story, I
think it's important to tell youor to talk about, how did we
get to the point of trying toget a taped confession.
Well, peggy actually took apretty affirmative role in
trying to bring convincingevidence to the police,
(16:28):
affirmatively from the get-go,that her husband is guilty of
these murders.
She actually secretly takesRobert Howells'.32 caliber
handgun to police, claiming thatit's the murder weapon, and
prior police reports show thatRobert Howells is very violent.
The police had had to go to theresidence many times for
(16:52):
domestic violence type claimsand issues and reports made to
the police.
So I think this falls into thecategory of police liked him,
the kind of person he was, forthis crime, and that shouldn't
be a thing.
Police shouldn't like someonefor a crime, but police officers
, investigators, detectives orhumans, and that's just human
(17:14):
nature.
So we really can't get awayfrom that to some degree.
Not to mention that lawenforcement is floundering.
They're projecting this imageof confidence that they're going
to find the killer to this veryfrightened community.
And you have to bear in mindthat this initial threat to
Peggy from her husband comes inDecember 1966, a couple of
(17:36):
months after the Sims familyslaying.
So by the time that RobertHowells is on the radar for law
enforcement they are probablysomewhat, I expect, in
semi-panic mode about findingsomeone not anyone, but someone
to fit the bill for this crime.
Again, you have to think aboutthe community and how utterly
(17:58):
terrified they were.
People rushed out, startedbuying all the home locks that
they could, all the handgunsthat they could.
Women were putting ammonia intosquirt guns to protect
themselves inside their ownhomes.
That's the mental state ofevery family and especially
(18:18):
every woman that's home alonewith the kids while husband is
at work.
Again, this is 1966, the vastmajority of women, especially if
they had children, were homealone all day.
Now the final piece to theequation of Robert Howells'
involvement or non-involvementand why law enforcement moved
(18:41):
forward with Peggy after sheaffirmatively brought them
information and what sheconsidered to be evidence of his
guilt in proceeding forward inthis investigation and that
issue is what is Robert Howells'supposed motive for murdering
and committing the Sims familyslaying?
Well, the story behind that isfairly lackluster.
(19:03):
What Robert Howells told hiswife is that he got into a
discussion with Mrs Sims at agrocery store at some point
which became heated for unknownreasons I was not able to find
that and supposedly after thatdiscussion in a grocery store
which became heated, robertHowells follows Mrs Sims to her
home.
(19:23):
He gets out of his car at herhouse as she's beginning to take
groceries into the house and hethreatens her that he's going
to come back that day and killher Again.
This is the story that RobertHowells gave to Peggy, as the
two of them are driving to theirhoneymoon less than 24 hours
(19:44):
after they got married.
So Peggy Howells is wired up,she's ready to attempt to get
this audio taped confession fromher husband that he committed
the Sims family slang, and itgoes all awry.
Robert Howells gets tipped offby his daughter.
I presume from a formermarriage or relationship that
(20:06):
Peggy and law enforcement areplanning to do this and it
totally backfires on lawenforcement and on Peggy.
They don't get the confessionand while I couldn't find
details, it seems like Peggysuffered some backlash from
Robert, that I couldn't find anykind of record that indicated
(20:27):
that that backlash ever resultedin Robert getting in any
trouble.
So not only does this backfireon Peggy and law enforcement,
but Robert actually isaffirmatively ready, for when
they try to pull this off.
Robert is somehow able toconfront law enforcement
wherever they were in proximityto Peggy trying to get this
(20:49):
audio taped confession, and heencourages law enforcement to
bring him in and question him.
Simply he encourages them, andRobert then spins a story.
Whether or not it's true Idon't know.
The Peggy is simply a crazy,manic, depressive woman,
possibly with some personalitydisorders, such as borderline
(21:09):
personality disorder, and thatshe's lying to police to get
revenge against Robert for someperceived slights in Peggy's
mind that Robert committedagainst her.
In essence, robert plays theshe's depressed and crazy card
and, other than telling you theoutcome of the investigation
(21:30):
against Robert Howells.
That's pretty much the end ofthis aspect of the story.
Again, I'm going to come backwith regard to every suspect and
share with you how theinvestigations on each suspect
panned out after I've introducedall the suspects.
I feel bad for Peggy, though,because just looking at this
(21:51):
man's picture, he looksabsolutely mean, based on the
reports that I've read andreviewed, and what this guy
looks like, knowing just thosetwo things, if he was married to
my sister or my daughter, Iwould be on high alert all the
time, ready to swing into actionto help protect them, which I
(22:11):
am quite certain is exactly howlaw enforcement felt.
Okay, this brings us to ournext suspect in the Sims Family
Slaying.
And yes, there's a very goodreason why this music is the way
it is.
With this suspect, we are goingto delve into the world of
(22:35):
demonology, satanism andspirituality, and things take a
much, much darker twist withthis suspect.
His name is Tommy Fulgrim and hewas 15 at the time of the Sims
Family Murders.
Unlike other boys, tommy didn'tplay football or other sports.
His main interest inextracurricular activity was
(22:58):
choir, and in 1966 that wasconsidered semi-odd for boys to
participate in.
From several interviews that Ifound and listened to are read
Tommy was regarded by the fairersex in middle school and in
high school, not just to be goodlooking, but to actually be
beautiful as a boy and as a male.
The intonation and the facialexpressions, particularly of
(23:22):
some of his classmates now much,much older in an interview I
watched, was very interesting,as they still somewhat seemed to
pine over how attractive he was.
Now, at this point I want you toremember, back to part one of
the Sims Family Slaying, that'sepisode four.
I told you that the policeimmediately began going door to
(23:44):
door in the middle of the night,hauling people out of their
homes, trying to find anysuspicious characters or anyone
who might be able to beidentified as a suspect, and
police kept canvassing theneighborhood and certain parts
of Tallahassee from that pointforward.
Well, during this, there arepolice notes and reports that
indicate that the sheriff'soffice was becoming more and
(24:07):
more suspicious of Tommy Fulgrim.
This was because Tommy seemedto always duck and avoid the
police every time they would goout looking for him or come
calling to interview him abouthis whereabouts.
On the night in questionrelating to the Sims Family
Slaying and, as I mentioned,there are police reports that
specifically detail that itseems that Tommy Fulgrim was
(24:30):
avoiding them and theirquestions and their
investigation.
Supposedly there were evennewspaper articles about this
fact, calling out TommyFulgrim's lack of presence and
lack of submission to policeinvestigation relating to the
Sims Family Slaying.
I looked but I was not able tofind any such newspaper articles
.
I only heard about them inreference or by way of reference
(24:53):
in other reports and in otheraccounts relating to this case
and given the fact that I haveaccess to the last 300 to 500
years of newspaper articles inthe United States and Europe, I
would be surprised if thisarticle exists, but it's
possible.
So because the police can'tspeak with Tommy Fulgrim
(25:15):
directly himself, whether he waspurposely avoiding the police
or not the police do the nextbest thing and they interview
several people that know Tommy.
This included his girlfriend atthat time.
And I think at least ofinterest and intrigue is the
fact that many of his peers,people that they interviewed,
(25:37):
spoke about and indicated howconsiderably intelligent Tommy
Fulgrim was.
And from all the research thatI did, I was not able to find
any indication that at any point, shortly after the Simms family
slaying that Tommy Fulgrimsubmitted to any questioning or
interviewing by police andeventually, and for a time
(25:59):
actually a very long time, yearsand years in fact, tommy
Fulgrim is put on the suspectback burner for the lack of
sufficient inculpatory evidence,in other words evidence that
rises to probable cause existingwhich is necessary to arrest
him or charge him with themurders or with any crime.
So at this point, fast forwardto 1978.
(26:22):
And we're going to travel toAtlanta, georgia, where, at that
time and in Atlanta, georgia,tommy Fulgrim is living Now.
At this juncture you need to beaware that after high school
Tommy went into the Navy.
Also at some point after highschool, maybe even during high
school, people, at least Tommy'sfamily, find out that he
(26:43):
suffers from very serious mentaldisease and defect, bordering
on or even across the line frompsychosis and a full mental
break from reality, at least attimes, and Tommy was discharged
from the Navy on medical groundsdue to mental and psychological
issues.
So by 1978, tommy is living inAtlanta, georgia, and he had for
(27:06):
several years become utterlyobsessed with religion, life
forces, spirituality, demonology, demonic possession of human
beings, as well as full satanicpossession where literally the
belief is Satan, the devil,possesses a human being.
In fact, at some point it'sindicated in various reports
(27:28):
that Tommy stated that he wasthe devil or was possessed by
the devil.
On a professional note, afterthe Navy Tommy had become very
interested in chiropractic, theworkings of the human body and
human anatomy, and in that veinTommy befriended a family with
the last name of the cars, whowere involved in the business of
(27:50):
chiropractic.
The cars later reported thatTommy would inquire about the
strangest things relating to thehuman body when they would have
him over for dinners, and thisis where Tommy takes a really
dark twist.
Later, in 1978, it's discoveredthat Tommy Fulgrim horribly, and
in a very gruesome andhorrifically grisly manner,
(28:12):
murdered his girlfriend, or awoman that some others referred
to as his girlfriend, dalePirney.
Her age is unknown and she wasa divorcee, though I was able to
uncover that after high schoolshe had lived in Atlanta,
georgia, on and off, for about10 years, so presumably this
makes her approximately 27 to 29years old at that time, and at
(28:35):
this time in 1978, tommy himselfis 28 years old.
Tommy and Miss Pirney first met.
The timing is unknown, but theyfirst met at a group session of
narcotic users and addicts whowere trying to kick their
narcotic addictions.
Reportedly, though, accordingto her family, Miss Pirney did
not drink, did not use drugs,but she regularly attended
(28:59):
alcoholics anonymous meetingsand narcotic addicts meetings,
and after the policeinvestigated, they found in her
apartment a slew of religiousliterature.
Well, four days prior to hermurder by Tommy, miss Pirney had
moved into the same apartmentcomplex as Tommy Fulgrim.
The two were acquaintances orthey were in a romantic
(29:20):
relationship, as some peopleindicated.
This is unclear.
Now, I believe the only way todo this story within a story
about Miss Pirney justice is toread to you a July 14th 1979
newspaper article from theAtlanta Journal and Constitution
titled X Psychiatric PatientIndicted in Brutal Knife Slang
(29:41):
of Woman written by George RodRieg.
The article reads as followsthe Fulton County Grand Jury
indicted a 28-year-old formerpsychiatric patient Friday for
the gruesome knife slang of ayoung Sandy Springs woman Monday
.
Thomas Arthur Fulgrim of 1150Barclay Circle in Marietta was
charged with one count of murderby Grand Jury.
According to Fulton DistrictAttorney Louis R Slaton, police
(30:05):
searching for a motive havetentatively concluded that
Fulgrim was trying to find andremove the source of some evil
or demonic influence he detectedin the victim, dale Pirney.
Fulgrim was arrested on thenight of the slaying outside
Miss Pirney's apartment.
He currently is underexamination in the Grady
Memorial Hospital psychiatricunit and a July 10th order by
(30:27):
Fulton Superior Court JudgeCharles L Weltener stipulates
that he has not to be releasedexcept to the police department
or until further court order.
According to police reports,fulgrim was arrested around
10.30pm Monday as he lay outsideapartment E-207 of the Ski
Lodge Apartments at 5540 RoswellRoad Northeast.
(30:48):
He was bleeding from anamputated finger and a trail of
blood led to the apartment'sinterior.
Their police found the remainsof Miss Pirney, a divorcee who
had moved into the complex onlyfour days earlier.
Fulton County Police had rushedto the complex in response to
calls from residents of thebuilding who had heard a woman
(31:09):
screaming.
Fulgrim, whom police said hadrecently been confined in a
Florida mental institution for14 months and then just walked
away, was reportedly mutteringincoherently about God, love and
pain when police found him.
Police have not pinpointed areason why Fulgrim would have
wanted to attack Ms Pearnie, aNorthside high school graduate
(31:29):
who had lived in Atlanta on andoff for the past 10 years.
But several sources saidinvestigators have concluded
that Fulgrim, who has beendiagnosed by Florida
psychiatrists as a paranoid,schizophrenic, thought he was
acting as the messenger of Godby killing Ms Pearnie and then
trying to remove from her andher body the source of some evil
he detected there.
(31:50):
Slayton said no drugs werefound at the scene, although
blood tests on both Ms Pearnieand Fulgrim are not yet complete
.
Fulton police captain JMMulliford said that Ms Pearnie
evidently met Fulgrim, whomfriends describe as a casual
acquaintance of Ms Pearnie,about four days before her death
.
They reportedly met at a groupsession of former narcotics
(32:12):
users trying to kick their drughabits.
Mulliford said Ms Pearnieevidently did not drink but
attended alcoholics anonymousmeetings.
She did not take drugs, herfather said, but she attended
narcotics anonymous meetings andshe had a lot of religious
literature lying around herapartment.
Fulgrim's parents, who live inTallahassee, florida, have told
police that their son had ahistory of institutionalization
(32:35):
and psychiatric problems.
His mother, betty Fulgrim,confirmed that statement Friday
night but declined to speculateon a motive Quote.
I think that's up to thepsychiatrists.
End quote.
She said Various sources saidthat a psychiatrist who treated
Fulgrim as recently as last yearin Florida classified him as a
paranoid schizophrenic, a manhounded by fears of demonic
(32:56):
possession both of himself andof others.
As a younger man, fulgrim oncereturned home from a religious
meeting and choked a closerelative by the throat, saying
he wanted to quote shake thedevil out of him.
End quote.
One source said Mrs Fulgrimdeclined to comment.
A Tallahassee psychiatrist, drDavid Moore, said that for
reasons of privacy he could notconfirm nor deny treating
(33:20):
Fulgrim, but he consented togive a theoretical explanation
of how someone with Fulgrim'salleged problems could think
that by killing or mutilating ahuman being quote he was acting
as the messenger of God endquote.
This sort of person feels thatthey are constantly directed by
evil and good forces and cansometimes act on a delusional
(33:41):
belief that they are to removedemons from themselves and
others.
Moore said A person in thatstate might gouge out his own
eyes to prevent him quote fromseeing the evil in the world.
End quote.
He explained in more severecases he might try to kill
himself or save someone else bykilling him.
Even one stray word might beenough to trigger a chain
(34:03):
reaction that would make themfeel that they had to kill a
particular person.
He said the gruesomeness of thekilling could be explained
because they feel that they mustfind the bodily organ or part
of the body that is the sourceof the evil they feel.
He said they would absolutelynot feel anything wrong with the
idea that they were doing thisto a live human being.
(34:23):
They would be interested, in acold and detached way, in
getting the demon out.
Miss Pyrrny's body was found ona blood-soaked rug pierced by a
12-inch knife that was lodged inthe floor below her.
She was nude from the waist upand had been eviscerated, police
said.
One Fulton investigator saidthe body appeared to have been
deliberately but clumsilydissected.
(34:45):
Body organs were distributedthroughout the one bedroom
apartment where Miss Pyrrny hadlived alone.
Some organs, including herheart, have not been found.
That is the totality of thenews article, again titled Ex
Psychiatric Patient Indicted inBrutal Knife Slang of Woman.
Again, it's dated July 14, 1979and was published in the
(35:05):
Atlanta Journal and Constitution, page 5A.
So Tommy had eviscerated andtaken apart Miss Pyrrny's body.
She was disemboweled thearticle didn't mention it but
her hands were cut off.
Tommy had put her liver in ajar and he had it by his side
when he was found by police.
Also, tommy told police andthis was not included in the
(35:28):
article that he did thisspecifically so that Satan would
be chained and bound and couldnot be upon the earth for
another thousand years.
So at this point we actuallyhave to transition back to
Tallahassee.
We have to talk about agentleman by the name of Ron
Stox.
Mr Stox is a reporter for theTallahassee Democrat, the
(35:51):
primary main newspaper inTallahassee.
Sometime after Tommy isapprehended and charged with the
murder of Miss Pyrrny, mr Stox,presumably researching Miss
Pyrrny's murder, discovers thatTommy Fulgrim was originally
from Tallahassee and, being fromTallahassee himself.
As he lives and works for theTallahassee Democrat, mr Stox,
(36:16):
well remembers the Sims family'sslaying Everyone did.
Ron Stox begins researchingdeeper into Tommy Fulgrim, and
he discovers that Tommy livedjust houses away from the Sims
family At the time of the Simsfamily's slaying 12 years
earlier.
Mr Stox forms a very strongbelief that Tommy Fulgrim must
(36:39):
have been the Sims familymurderer, probably thinking
something along the lines thatonly a truly deranged person
like Tommy Fulgrim has nowproven himself to be could have
committed the Sims family triplemurder, including the murder
and possible sexual assault of12-year-old little beautiful Joy
(37:00):
Sims.
While Ron Stox takes thisinformation to the then Florida
state attorney, willie Meggs, inan attempt to convince the
state attorney that TommyFulgrim has to be the Sims
family murderer, and for a timeafter 1978, and Tommy's gruesome
murder of Miss Pyrrny, thesheriff's office in Tallahassee
works with Mr Stox and theyreopen the investigation into
(37:23):
Tommy Fulgrim.
Not long after this, though,ron Stox dies in a vehicle
traffic accident, and the pushinto investigating Tommy Fulgrim
by Ron Stox obviously comes toan end.
I really hate to do this, but totell you anything more would
give away the conclusion ofTommy Fulgrim's candidacy as the
(37:45):
Sims family murderer.
So this is where I leave youtonight.
We have two more suspects to goand I can't wait to tell you
about them, if you can believeit.
In my opinion, they are thecraziest suspects.
I'm your host, jk Richards.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me today.
(38:05):
I hope you enjoyed yourself.
I know that I did.
Please stay safe out there andI hope to never be telling your
story.
I am JK Richards, the founder, creator and host of
your beloved True Crime series,where we treat crimes seriously
as your mysterious, murderousand macabre podcast In the past
and still to this day.
I am a criminal defenseattorney, where I view, assess,
investigate, analyze andreassess evidence again and
again.
If you are one looking for truestories of mystery, intrigue,
(00:49):
vice, corruption, may himviolent malevolence, jealousy,
greed, assault, insult, murderand the macabre, well, you are
in the right place.
Well, hello there folks and yes, that was my whistling that you
(01:23):
heard.
Happy holidays.
I'm recording this, orbeginning recording this, on
January 7th 2024.
So, happy new year, happyholidays.
I hope you were all safe andhappy.
I hope some of you got a chanceto listen to one or two of my
podcasts or more, and I justsincerely wish for the best for
all of you in this coming yearand in the future.
(01:43):
I've always loved the new yearand the holiday season and
everything that comes with it,every aspect of it.
It just makes me happy.
I'm happy to be here and I'mhappy that you're here with me,
and I hope that you'll bringmore people along with you to
take part in, hopefully, whatyou consider to be great
experiences here in listening tomy podcast.
As you all already know, or ifyou don't know, I am your host,
(02:06):
jk Richards, and my only holidaywish to you is go leave a
five-star review, if you like,my podcasts on Apple Podcasts
and Tell a Friend or Ten aboutthis podcast, and with nothing
more than that we're on to ourstory.
So, as you know, or if youdon't know, this is the third
(02:28):
installment, the third part, ofthe Sims Family Slaying and, as
has become my custom, I wouldlike to provide you in this
episode just a brief, briefreview of what occurred in part
one and part two, just don'twant you to get lost in the
story.
We are in Tallahassee, florida,which is the capital of Florida,
and, just to remind you, it'sin the far north and on the
(02:49):
northern border of Florida.
It's 1966, specifically October22nd 1966, and we're there with
the Sims Family, which iscomprised of Helen Sully Sims,
robert Wilson Sims, phd, jennySims, who's 17, judy Sims, who's
16, and Joy Sims, who is 12.
Jenny comes home frombabysitting and, in short, she
(03:12):
finds her mother, father andyoungest sister, joy, stabbed
and or shot, and all dead ordying.
Both the Sheriff's Office andthe city police begin
investigating city policeofficers trample the crime scene
, even putting on a pot ofcoffee inside the Sims Family
home, which is the crime scene.
The entire home is the crimescene and the Sheriff's Office
(03:34):
ousts the city police departmentand they take over the
investigation in full.
Helen Sims worked for the headpastor at the Family's Church,
the first Baptist Church, dr CARoberts.
Helen Sims had quit her jobjust days before the Family's
slang and it was laterdiscovered that Dr CA Roberts
was having affairs with dozensof women from his congregation.
(03:56):
And in a very brief nutshell,that is where I left you off in
part two of the Sims Family'sslang.
Now, if you haven't listened topart two yet, go back and
listen at least to the end ofpart two and I'll see you next
time.
Not long before the familymurder.
So essentially, what you'veheard so far is how the first
(04:20):
suspect was identified and whothe first suspect was.
But as I told you in part twoof the Sims Family Sling, I'm
not going to give you theconclusion of what occurs with
Dr C A Roberts as a suspect inthis case until I identify for
you all of the suspects in thiscase, and I've not alluded to
this yet, but there end up beingquite a few.
(04:41):
In fact, this case, I promisefor you, is going to become a
maddening head scratcher.
By the end of this case you'regoing to be going in circles and
circles upon circles uponcircles of theory, of analysis,
of questions, of wondering and,ultimately, confusion.
But I promise it's amaddeningly delightful confusion
(05:04):
and I'm going to do the samething with every suspect until
I've introduced all of them andtold you their stories and how
they became suspects.
I'm not going to get into whatthe police ultimately found,
what they were able to excludeand, in the end, who remain
suspects.
What I can also promiseabsolutely is you're going to
love this ride.
(05:26):
Okay, so suspect number two is aman by the name of Robert
Howells.
Now, there's not a ton knownabout Mr Howells and I really
couldn't find as much as I wouldhave liked to about Mr Howells
and his wife Peggy.
The two of them were married onDecember 21st 1966.
So a few months after the Simsfamily slaying the day after
(05:51):
their marriage, the two of themare driving from Tallahassee,
where they live, to AlligatorPoint to Honeymoon.
During this drive, robertHowells begins telling his wife
Peggy in graphic detail, actionby action exactly how he
murdered Joy Sims first, theyoung, innocent, beautiful,
smart 12-year-old girl, thenHelen Sims second and finally
(06:15):
Robert Sims.
His wife, peggy, of exactly oneday is stunned and traumatized
by what he's telling her, so shejust lets him talk and talk.
He does the entire drive andthat drive is approximately 50
miles, from what I can tell, viawhat looks like an interstate
(06:35):
highway.
It's 42.9 miles.
But my guess is that thatinterstate didn't exist at the
time and that the longer route,47.8 miles, was the route
commonly used.
I'm guessing, don't know that,I'm just guessing and that's at
speeds traveled in modern times,back in 1966, I would expect
the drive to take considerablylonger because the top speed
(06:59):
probably was about 50 miles anhour, maybe 55, somewhere in
that range.
Now, alligator Point is thisbeautiful beach that is
basically directly south bysouthwest of Tallahassee, and if
you think about the Gulf ofMexico, that body of water, and
about Florida and how Floridajuts out from the United States
(07:21):
and as it comes into the UnitedStates, there is this very large
bay or bend where the landmassslightly goes into the United
States and then comes back outagain and then goes back towards
the United States again andthen kind of evens out flat,
heading west at that point on anearly direct east-west line to
(07:42):
New Orleans.
Well, alligator Point is justwest of the pinnacle of that
very large first bend of watermass coming into towards the
United States before it goesback out.
So Robert and Piggy Hells areon this drive from Tallahassee
to Alligator Point on theirhoneymoon and Roberts tells her
(08:03):
this horrible, graphic,traumatizing story of murder.
And then Robert warns Piggythat she'd better stay in line
as his wife or he will kill her.
And from some reports that Iread, actually many men in
Tallahassee and possibly inFlorida as well, but at least in
Tallahassee were telling theirwives this kind of thing.
(08:24):
Now I think it is a certainkind of man that would do that
not all, but apparently this wassomething that was happening.
Now.
Certainly, today is a verydifferent society that we live
in than the society that existedin the United States in 1966.
We've come a long way sincethen, though we're still not
perfect.
But I want to point out beingthat I'm someone who can speak
(08:46):
with authority on this subjectthat I hope everyone out there
realizes and understands that athreat like this is a crime.
Not only that, but it alsopotentially in my mind more than
potentially gives rise to veryserious civil liability in the
civil courts Now, not so much inthe divorce arena, because,
(09:07):
unlike back in 1966, theentirety of the United States
now, as far as I'm aware, has nofault divorce.
Back then you had to prove or beable to prove certain specific
things that put you legallyquote unquote at fault, which
then enabled the other party toget a divorce.
We don't have that anymore.
(09:27):
All you have to state or citeto in a divorce proceeding these
days is irreconcilabledifferences or, depending on the
state and jurisdiction, you'rein some variation of that, but
you don't have to proveaffirmatively anything to be
legally enabled to be able toget a divorce.
That used to be the case, andI'm quite certain it was the
(09:48):
case in 1966.
Back to my point, though makingsuch threats gives rise to very
significant civil liability if,for example, a spouse were to
civilly sue, not in a divorce ora divorce action, but civilly
sue their spouse or formerspouse for, for example,
intentional infliction ofemotional distress, which is
(10:09):
actually a real thing.
Many people think that that'sjust something you hear about or
see on TV or in movies.
It actually really is somethingthat can be sued for.
And if you tell your spouse oryour partner or anyone hey, I
committed this murder, thisgrisly, horrible murder,
including murdering a child, andif you don't do what I want,
I'm going to do the same to you,yeah, that's intentional
(10:32):
infliction of emotional distressall day long, and you can
recover for that.
Divorce proceedings are aboutgetting divorced and about
fairly and equitably not equallyequitably distributing the
marital assets.
A criminal action only has todo with criminal conduct.
A civil suit like what I'mmentioning must be based on a
(10:52):
legal theory in civil law thatallows for recovery of certain
damages and intentionalinfliction of emotional distress
and damages that flow from.
It absolutely exists under thelaw as a path and mechanism to
recover for that kind of harm.
And I guess the reason that I'mgoing into this a little bit
extensively is it absolutelyblows my mind when people say
(11:17):
these very scary, horriblyoutlandish, vague and
threatening type statementsmeant to cause the other person
extreme fear, and especiallywhen it involves fear for their
own life, which is exactly whatRobert Hells did here.
Now, on this point in subject,I've actually had clients
criminal defense clients andpossibly divorcing clients who
(11:40):
at some point were accused ofmaking not this same statement
about murder but some kind ofscary or threatening statement
to a spouse.
I've had the argument made backto me no, they can't, meaning no
, they can't sue me or testifyagainst me, either in a criminal
matter or in a civil lawsuitwhere they sue me because of
(12:01):
spousal privilege.
And there is a privilege, justlike the attorney-client
privilege, which involves theattorney keeping the client's
secrets with regard to what theclient communicates to the
attorney.
There's a similar privilegebetween husband and wife that
exists under certaincircumstances and depending on
the state or jurisdiction thatyou live in.
(12:21):
It works differently indifferent states but to some
extent when this privilegeexists in general, one spouse
cannot be forced or made totestify against their spouse.
But people look, please have abrain.
You can't and I hope no one canactually believe that you can
commit a criminal offense or acivilly liable offense against
(12:43):
your spouse and then expectyou're going to be able to get
off scot-free because of spousalprivilege, where you have the
ability under that privilege tokeep them from testifying, in
other words, telling the courtor the jury what their spouse
did to them.
That's not a thing.
I've had the argument made tome before.
I was stunned by the argumentand I just want to set the
(13:05):
record straight.
That's not a thing.
If you commit a criminaloffense against your spouse,
spousal privilege is not goingto protect you, and if you
commit a civilly liable offenseagainst your spouse, that's not
going to protect you.
Your rights end where actiontaken by you or where your
rights themselves would harm orinfringe on somebody else's
rights Life, liberty, thepursuit of happiness and
(13:28):
presumably none of us wouldconsider being told hey, do what
I say, stay in line or I'mgoing to murder you to be part
of our pursuit of happiness.
Okay, enough about that andback to the story.
So Robert Howells makes thesestatements, tells the story and
makes these threats to PeggyHowells, his wife of one day
less than one day, I'm surewhile driving to their honeymoon
(13:51):
.
And in turn Ms Peggy Howellswrites a letter or letters the
reports are a little unclearabout this to police detailing
what he had admitted to.
So a plan is hatched betweenPeggy Howells and law
enforcement.
They're going to try and getRobert Howells on a tape
(14:13):
recording admitting to the Simsfamily slang.
Law enforcement and Peggy workpains taking me to try and set
this up.
This has to work, especiallygiven the violent and
threatening nature of RobertHowells in his relationship with
his wife.
Bear in mind, she's justmarried this guy and I'm
presuming that she did love himand did want to marry him and
(14:37):
didn't marry him under duress,and yet she's so scared of this
man that she believes he's acredible threat as far as murder
of a father, mother and a youngchild go.
There's not a lot of room forerror here and the stakes are
very high.
Peggy Howells, given theoverall context of this and
(15:00):
shown by her action to contactlaw enforcement about Robert
Howells supposed involvement inthe Sims family, slang shows us
that Peggy Howells must havebeen in utter fear for her own
life.
She believed Robert Howells'threat that he will murder her.
(15:20):
I don't see how it can beotherwise, for if she didn't
believe this, I feel that thatwould mean she didn't believe
Robert Howells' claim that hecommitted the Sims family
murders.
So under this extremely highstakes situation, peggy Howells
moves forward in cooperationwith law enforcement.
(15:42):
In 1966, a time when recordingdevices are large, clunky, I
can't imagine they're easy tohide to attempt to get a
confession on tape from RobertHowells.
How do you think it went?
I mean I didn't see therecording device but I think I
would be pretty highly suspectif I'm Peggy Howells considering
(16:07):
moving forward, trying to getthis recording for law
enforcement.
Now, before we move forwardwith this part of the story, I
think it's important to tell youor to talk about, how did we
get to the point of trying toget a taped confession.
Well, peggy actually took apretty affirmative role in
trying to bring convincingevidence to the police,
(16:28):
affirmatively from the get-go,that her husband is guilty of
these murders.
She actually secretly takesRobert Howells'.32 caliber
handgun to police, claiming thatit's the murder weapon, and
prior police reports show thatRobert Howells is very violent.
The police had had to go to theresidence many times for
(16:52):
domestic violence type claimsand issues and reports made to
the police.
So I think this falls into thecategory of police liked him,
the kind of person he was, forthis crime, and that shouldn't
be a thing.
Police shouldn't like someonefor a crime, but police officers
, investigators, detectives orhumans, and that's just human
(17:14):
nature.
So we really can't get awayfrom that to some degree.
Not to mention that lawenforcement is floundering.
They're projecting this imageof confidence that they're going
to find the killer to this veryfrightened community.
And you have to bear in mindthat this initial threat to
Peggy from her husband comes inDecember 1966, a couple of
(17:36):
months after the Sims familyslaying.
So by the time that RobertHowells is on the radar for law
enforcement they are probablysomewhat, I expect, in
semi-panic mode about findingsomeone not anyone, but someone
to fit the bill for this crime.
Again, you have to think aboutthe community and how utterly
(17:58):
terrified they were.
People rushed out, startedbuying all the home locks that
they could, all the handgunsthat they could.
Women were putting ammonia intosquirt guns to protect
themselves inside their ownhomes.
That's the mental state ofevery family and especially
(18:18):
every woman that's home alonewith the kids while husband is
at work.
Again, this is 1966, the vastmajority of women, especially if
they had children, were homealone all day.
Now the final piece to theequation of Robert Howells'
involvement or non-involvementand why law enforcement moved
(18:41):
forward with Peggy after sheaffirmatively brought them
information and what sheconsidered to be evidence of his
guilt in proceeding forward inthis investigation and that
issue is what is Robert Howells'supposed motive for murdering
and committing the Sims familyslaying?
Well, the story behind that isfairly lackluster.
(19:03):
What Robert Howells told hiswife is that he got into a
discussion with Mrs Sims at agrocery store at some point
which became heated for unknownreasons I was not able to find
that and supposedly after thatdiscussion in a grocery store
which became heated, robertHowells follows Mrs Sims to her
home.
(19:23):
He gets out of his car at herhouse as she's beginning to take
groceries into the house and hethreatens her that he's going
to come back that day and killher Again.
This is the story that RobertHowells gave to Peggy, as the
two of them are driving to theirhoneymoon less than 24 hours
(19:44):
after they got married.
So Peggy Howells is wired up,she's ready to attempt to get
this audio taped confession fromher husband that he committed
the Sims family slang, and itgoes all awry.
Robert Howells gets tipped offby his daughter.
I presume from a formermarriage or relationship that
(20:06):
Peggy and law enforcement areplanning to do this and it
totally backfires on lawenforcement and on Peggy.
They don't get the confessionand while I couldn't find
details, it seems like Peggysuffered some backlash from
Robert, that I couldn't find anykind of record that indicated
(20:27):
that that backlash ever resultedin Robert getting in any
trouble.
So not only does this backfireon Peggy and law enforcement,
but Robert actually isaffirmatively ready, for when
they try to pull this off.
Robert is somehow able toconfront law enforcement
wherever they were in proximityto Peggy trying to get this
(20:49):
audio taped confession, and heencourages law enforcement to
bring him in and question him.
Simply he encourages them, andRobert then spins a story.
Whether or not it's true Idon't know.
The Peggy is simply a crazy,manic, depressive woman,
possibly with some personalitydisorders, such as borderline
(21:09):
personality disorder, and thatshe's lying to police to get
revenge against Robert for someperceived slights in Peggy's
mind that Robert committedagainst her.
In essence, robert plays theshe's depressed and crazy card
and, other than telling you theoutcome of the investigation
(21:30):
against Robert Howells.
That's pretty much the end ofthis aspect of the story.
Again, I'm going to come backwith regard to every suspect and
share with you how theinvestigations on each suspect
panned out after I've introducedall the suspects.
I feel bad for Peggy, though,because just looking at this
(21:51):
man's picture, he looksabsolutely mean, based on the
reports that I've read andreviewed, and what this guy
looks like, knowing just thosetwo things, if he was married to
my sister or my daughter, Iwould be on high alert all the
time, ready to swing into actionto help protect them, which I
(22:11):
am quite certain is exactly howlaw enforcement felt.
Okay, this brings us to ournext suspect in the Sims Family
Slaying.
And yes, there's a very goodreason why this music is the way
it is.
With this suspect, we are goingto delve into the world of
(22:35):
demonology, satanism andspirituality, and things take a
much, much darker twist withthis suspect.
His name is Tommy Fulgrim and hewas 15 at the time of the Sims
Family Murders.
Unlike other boys, tommy didn'tplay football or other sports.
His main interest inextracurricular activity was
(22:58):
choir, and in 1966 that wasconsidered semi-odd for boys to
participate in.
From several interviews that Ifound and listened to are read
Tommy was regarded by the fairersex in middle school and in
high school, not just to be goodlooking, but to actually be
beautiful as a boy and as a male.
The intonation and the facialexpressions, particularly of
(23:22):
some of his classmates now much,much older in an interview I
watched, was very interesting,as they still somewhat seemed to
pine over how attractive he was.
Now, at this point I want you toremember, back to part one of
the Sims Family Slaying, that'sepisode four.
I told you that the policeimmediately began going door to
(23:44):
door in the middle of the night,hauling people out of their
homes, trying to find anysuspicious characters or anyone
who might be able to beidentified as a suspect, and
police kept canvassing theneighborhood and certain parts
of Tallahassee from that pointforward.
Well, during this, there arepolice notes and reports that
indicate that the sheriff'soffice was becoming more and
(24:07):
more suspicious of Tommy Fulgrim.
This was because Tommy seemedto always duck and avoid the
police every time they would goout looking for him or come
calling to interview him abouthis whereabouts.
On the night in questionrelating to the Sims Family
Slaying and, as I mentioned,there are police reports that
specifically detail that itseems that Tommy Fulgrim was
(24:30):
avoiding them and theirquestions and their
investigation.
Supposedly there were evennewspaper articles about this
fact, calling out TommyFulgrim's lack of presence and
lack of submission to policeinvestigation relating to the
Sims Family Slaying.
I looked but I was not able tofind any such newspaper articles
.
I only heard about them inreference or by way of reference
(24:53):
in other reports and in otheraccounts relating to this case
and given the fact that I haveaccess to the last 300 to 500
years of newspaper articles inthe United States and Europe, I
would be surprised if thisarticle exists, but it's
possible.
So because the police can'tspeak with Tommy Fulgrim
(25:15):
directly himself, whether he waspurposely avoiding the police
or not the police do the nextbest thing and they interview
several people that know Tommy.
This included his girlfriend atthat time.
And I think at least ofinterest and intrigue is the
fact that many of his peers,people that they interviewed,
(25:37):
spoke about and indicated howconsiderably intelligent Tommy
Fulgrim was.
And from all the research thatI did, I was not able to find
any indication that at any point, shortly after the Simms family
slaying that Tommy Fulgrimsubmitted to any questioning or
interviewing by police andeventually, and for a time
(25:59):
actually a very long time, yearsand years in fact, tommy
Fulgrim is put on the suspectback burner for the lack of
sufficient inculpatory evidence,in other words evidence that
rises to probable cause existingwhich is necessary to arrest
him or charge him with themurders or with any crime.
So at this point, fast forwardto 1978.
(26:22):
And we're going to travel toAtlanta, georgia, where, at that
time and in Atlanta, georgia,tommy Fulgrim is living Now.
At this juncture you need to beaware that after high school
Tommy went into the Navy.
Also at some point after highschool, maybe even during high
school, people, at least Tommy'sfamily, find out that he
(26:43):
suffers from very serious mentaldisease and defect, bordering
on or even across the line frompsychosis and a full mental
break from reality, at least attimes, and Tommy was discharged
from the Navy on medical groundsdue to mental and psychological
issues.
So by 1978, tommy is living inAtlanta, georgia, and he had for
(27:06):
several years become utterlyobsessed with religion, life
forces, spirituality, demonology, demonic possession of human
beings, as well as full satanicpossession where literally the
belief is Satan, the devil,possesses a human being.
In fact, at some point it'sindicated in various reports
(27:28):
that Tommy stated that he wasthe devil or was possessed by
the devil.
On a professional note, afterthe Navy Tommy had become very
interested in chiropractic, theworkings of the human body and
human anatomy, and in that veinTommy befriended a family with
the last name of the cars, whowere involved in the business of
(27:50):
chiropractic.
The cars later reported thatTommy would inquire about the
strangest things relating to thehuman body when they would have
him over for dinners, and thisis where Tommy takes a really
dark twist.
Later, in 1978, it's discoveredthat Tommy Fulgrim horribly, and
in a very gruesome andhorrifically grisly manner,
(28:12):
murdered his girlfriend, or awoman that some others referred
to as his girlfriend, dalePirney.
Her age is unknown and she wasa divorcee, though I was able to
uncover that after high schoolshe had lived in Atlanta,
georgia, on and off, for about10 years, so presumably this
makes her approximately 27 to 29years old at that time, and at
(28:35):
this time in 1978, tommy himselfis 28 years old.
Tommy and Miss Pirney first met.
The timing is unknown, but theyfirst met at a group session of
narcotic users and addicts whowere trying to kick their
narcotic addictions.
Reportedly, though, accordingto her family, Miss Pirney did
not drink, did not use drugs,but she regularly attended
(28:59):
alcoholics anonymous meetingsand narcotic addicts meetings,
and after the policeinvestigated, they found in her
apartment a slew of religiousliterature.
Well, four days prior to hermurder by Tommy, miss Pirney had
moved into the same apartmentcomplex as Tommy Fulgrim.
The two were acquaintances orthey were in a romantic
(29:20):
relationship, as some peopleindicated.
This is unclear.
Now, I believe the only way todo this story within a story
about Miss Pirney justice is toread to you a July 14th 1979
newspaper article from theAtlanta Journal and Constitution
titled X Psychiatric PatientIndicted in Brutal Knife Slang
(29:41):
of Woman written by George RodRieg.
The article reads as followsthe Fulton County Grand Jury
indicted a 28-year-old formerpsychiatric patient Friday for
the gruesome knife slang of ayoung Sandy Springs woman Monday
.
Thomas Arthur Fulgrim of 1150Barclay Circle in Marietta was
charged with one count of murderby Grand Jury.
According to Fulton DistrictAttorney Louis R Slaton, police
(30:05):
searching for a motive havetentatively concluded that
Fulgrim was trying to find andremove the source of some evil
or demonic influence he detectedin the victim, dale Pirney.
Fulgrim was arrested on thenight of the slaying outside
Miss Pirney's apartment.
He currently is underexamination in the Grady
Memorial Hospital psychiatricunit and a July 10th order by
(30:27):
Fulton Superior Court JudgeCharles L Weltener stipulates
that he has not to be releasedexcept to the police department
or until further court order.
According to police reports,fulgrim was arrested around
10.30pm Monday as he lay outsideapartment E-207 of the Ski
Lodge Apartments at 5540 RoswellRoad Northeast.
(30:48):
He was bleeding from anamputated finger and a trail of
blood led to the apartment'sinterior.
Their police found the remainsof Miss Pirney, a divorcee who
had moved into the complex onlyfour days earlier.
Fulton County Police had rushedto the complex in response to
calls from residents of thebuilding who had heard a woman
(31:09):
screaming.
Fulgrim, whom police said hadrecently been confined in a
Florida mental institution for14 months and then just walked
away, was reportedly mutteringincoherently about God, love and
pain when police found him.
Police have not pinpointed areason why Fulgrim would have
wanted to attack Ms Pearnie, aNorthside high school graduate
(31:29):
who had lived in Atlanta on andoff for the past 10 years.
But several sources saidinvestigators have concluded
that Fulgrim, who has beendiagnosed by Florida
psychiatrists as a paranoid,schizophrenic, thought he was
acting as the messenger of Godby killing Ms Pearnie and then
trying to remove from her andher body the source of some evil
he detected there.
(31:50):
Slayton said no drugs werefound at the scene, although
blood tests on both Ms Pearnieand Fulgrim are not yet complete
.
Fulton police captain JMMulliford said that Ms Pearnie
evidently met Fulgrim, whomfriends describe as a casual
acquaintance of Ms Pearnie,about four days before her death
.
They reportedly met at a groupsession of former narcotics
(32:12):
users trying to kick their drughabits.
Mulliford said Ms Pearnieevidently did not drink but
attended alcoholics anonymousmeetings.
She did not take drugs, herfather said, but she attended
narcotics anonymous meetings andshe had a lot of religious
literature lying around herapartment.
Fulgrim's parents, who live inTallahassee, florida, have told
police that their son had ahistory of institutionalization
(32:35):
and psychiatric problems.
His mother, betty Fulgrim,confirmed that statement Friday
night but declined to speculateon a motive Quote.
I think that's up to thepsychiatrists.
End quote.
She said Various sources saidthat a psychiatrist who treated
Fulgrim as recently as last yearin Florida classified him as a
paranoid schizophrenic, a manhounded by fears of demonic
(32:56):
possession both of himself andof others.
As a younger man, fulgrim oncereturned home from a religious
meeting and choked a closerelative by the throat, saying
he wanted to quote shake thedevil out of him.
End quote.
One source said Mrs Fulgrimdeclined to comment.
A Tallahassee psychiatrist, drDavid Moore, said that for
reasons of privacy he could notconfirm nor deny treating
(33:20):
Fulgrim, but he consented togive a theoretical explanation
of how someone with Fulgrim'salleged problems could think
that by killing or mutilating ahuman being quote he was acting
as the messenger of God endquote.
This sort of person feels thatthey are constantly directed by
evil and good forces and cansometimes act on a delusional
(33:41):
belief that they are to removedemons from themselves and
others.
Moore said A person in thatstate might gouge out his own
eyes to prevent him quote fromseeing the evil in the world.
End quote.
He explained in more severecases he might try to kill
himself or save someone else bykilling him.
Even one stray word might beenough to trigger a chain
(34:03):
reaction that would make themfeel that they had to kill a
particular person.
He said the gruesomeness of thekilling could be explained
because they feel that they mustfind the bodily organ or part
of the body that is the sourceof the evil they feel.
He said they would absolutelynot feel anything wrong with the
idea that they were doing thisto a live human being.
(34:23):
They would be interested, in acold and detached way, in
getting the demon out.
Miss Pyrrny's body was found ona blood-soaked rug pierced by a
12-inch knife that was lodged inthe floor below her.
She was nude from the waist upand had been eviscerated, police
said.
One Fulton investigator saidthe body appeared to have been
deliberately but clumsilydissected.
(34:45):
Body organs were distributedthroughout the one bedroom
apartment where Miss Pyrrny hadlived alone.
Some organs, including herheart, have not been found.
That is the totality of thenews article, again titled Ex
Psychiatric Patient Indicted inBrutal Knife Slang of Woman.
Again, it's dated July 14, 1979and was published in the
(35:05):
Atlanta Journal and Constitution, page 5A.
So Tommy had eviscerated andtaken apart Miss Pyrrny's body.
She was disemboweled thearticle didn't mention it but
her hands were cut off.
Tommy had put her liver in ajar and he had it by his side
when he was found by police.
Also, tommy told police andthis was not included in the
(35:28):
article that he did thisspecifically so that Satan would
be chained and bound and couldnot be upon the earth for
another thousand years.
So at this point we actuallyhave to transition back to
Tallahassee.
We have to talk about agentleman by the name of Ron
Stox.
Mr Stox is a reporter for theTallahassee Democrat, the
(35:51):
primary main newspaper inTallahassee.
Sometime after Tommy isapprehended and charged with the
murder of Miss Pyrrny, mr Stox,presumably researching Miss
Pyrrny's murder, discovers thatTommy Fulgrim was originally
from Tallahassee and, being fromTallahassee himself.
As he lives and works for theTallahassee Democrat, mr Stox,
(36:16):
well remembers the Sims family'sslaying Everyone did.
Ron Stox begins researchingdeeper into Tommy Fulgrim, and
he discovers that Tommy livedjust houses away from the Sims
family At the time of the Simsfamily's slaying 12 years
earlier.
Mr Stox forms a very strongbelief that Tommy Fulgrim must
(36:39):
have been the Sims familymurderer, probably thinking
something along the lines thatonly a truly deranged person
like Tommy Fulgrim has nowproven himself to be could have
committed the Sims family triplemurder, including the murder
and possible sexual assault of12-year-old little beautiful Joy
(37:00):
Sims.
While Ron Stox takes thisinformation to the then Florida
state attorney, willie Meggs, inan attempt to convince the
state attorney that TommyFulgrim has to be the Sims
family murderer, and for a timeafter 1978, and Tommy's gruesome
murder of Miss Pyrrny, thesheriff's office in Tallahassee
works with Mr Stox and theyreopen the investigation into
(37:23):
Tommy Fulgrim.
Not long after this, though,ron Stox dies in a vehicle
traffic accident, and the pushinto investigating Tommy Fulgrim
by Ron Stox obviously comes toan end.
I really hate to do this, but totell you anything more would
give away the conclusion ofTommy Fulgrim's candidacy as the
(37:45):
Sims family murderer.
So this is where I leave youtonight.
We have two more suspects to goand I can't wait to tell you
about them, if you can believeit.
In my opinion, they are thecraziest suspects.
I'm your host, jk Richards.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me today.
(38:05):
I hope you enjoyed yourself.
I know that I did.
Please stay safe out there andI hope to never be telling your
story.
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