December 1, 2025 • 37 mins
What if the voice limiting your life isn’t truth—but a script you never chose? We open a candid, deeply practical conversation with Dr. Jay Nicole, a psychotherapist and faith-led clinician, on breaking the cycle of limiting beliefs and stepping into a grounded, purpose-led life. Together, we unpack where those beliefs come from—formative years, culture, comparison, and trauma—and why so many of us drift into a spiritual identity crisis that keeps us hustling for worth and starving for rest.
You’ll hear how thoughts become lenses, lenses become habits, and habits become identity if they go unchallenged. We explore cognitive distortions and core beliefs in plain language, then pair them with a faith-forward toolkit: renewing the mind with scripture, praying for wisdom like Solomon, and letting peace be your confirmation when noise crowds out clarity. Dr. Jay shows how therapy and spirituality can complement each other—setting treatment goals alongside spiritual goals, using prayer when requested, and building daily practices that realign mind, body, and spirit.
How to cope with Trauma
“Talk to a few trusted people, open up about your struggle, seek online support groups, read self-help books or practice small acts of self-care such as meditation, breath work, yoga and exercise can help you regain some feeling of control.”
Find a therapist
- Get Started (betterhelp.com)
- Online Psychiatric Medication & Mental Telehealth Services - Rx Anxiety, Depression & Insomnia Treatment | Cerebral
Triumph Over Trauma Scripture: II Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be unto to God , who always causes us to Triumph in Christ....
Books I'm reading on my healing journey
- The Body Keeps the Score - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143127748/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_i_HXH4RMNC329DT7VPQ5WG
- Trauma & Recovery https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465061710/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_i_
- It didnt start with you Ihttps://a.co/d/3CZwWao
My social Networks
- TIKTOK- https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdXBhyrM/
- FB-https://www.facebook.com/eve.mcnair
- IG-https://www.instagram.com/mseve_mseve/
2 Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, who always causes us to Triumph!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey y'all, welcome to Triumph Over Trauma, the
podcast.
Listen, y'all, I created thispodcast because, like so many
other people, I've had atraumatic past.
I didn't always realize howthose things affected me
negatively and how I evencarried them into my adult life.
And so I wanted to create aspace where other people can
come and we could have candidconversations how do you
(00:21):
identify trauma?
How do you navigate it and howyou recover from traumatic
experiences?
If this resonates with you, thenjoin me.
I am your host and traumasurvivor, Miss Eve McNair.
Let's get into it.
Okay, guys, welcome back to theshow.
Uh today we're gonna dive intosomething that affects so many
of us.
It's limiting beliefs.
You know, those quiet, negativethoughts that tell us what we
(00:42):
can't do, who we're not, wherewe can't go, and what we'll
never become.
But what if God is calling us tochallenge those lies and walk in
the fullness of who he createdus to be?
My guest today knows thisjourney firsthand, and we're
going to unpack what it lookslike to identify, confront, and
replace those negative orlimiting beliefs with truth.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
So I want to welcome to the show today, Dr.
Jay Nicole.
How are you today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
I'm fantastic.
Thank you for having me.
And this is such an importanttopic, so I can't wait for us to
dig in.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, I can identify myselfbattling limiting beliefs and
having to overcome and in and inmany cases still working on some
of those.
So um, again, I'm like you said,I'm excited about this
conversation.
Before we get started, I want tomake sure that people put some
respect on your name.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself and what you do and
(01:40):
what you would like the audienceto know about yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (01:42):
Yes, I'm Dr.
Jay Nicole Simpson.
I'm the CEO, founder, and umprimary psychotherapist at
Evolve Therapy and Wellness,which also houses the Rise and
Thrive of Dr.
J.
Nicole podcast.
So um, with the practice evolve,my belief and my approach with
clients in therapy as well ascoaching is that it's a space
where mind, body, and spiritalign.
(02:04):
Um, because anytime something isoff in any one of those areas is
going to show up in the other.
So we need to be um balanced.
We are spiritual regardless ofwhat people believe or what they
believe in.
There is a component to us thatjust can't be explained that
there is something bigger thanself.
Um so I meet people where theyare in that journey and help
(02:26):
them find purpose, uh, navigatehealing.
And then the uh podcast is wherefaith and wellness intersect.
So I'm able to bring togetherfaith as well as my mental
health background to be able tohave conversations with people
who have real life livedexperiences and they're able to
(02:47):
share their testimonies abouttheir own growth, their
evolution, and how God hasshowed up in their life.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
I like specifically what you said, though, about how
there is another component, youknow, sometimes that is um
unseen to the naked eye, and itdoes require you to put on a
spiritual lens.
And um, even when I think aboutmy own healing journey and in my
beginning stages, I remember,you know, vetting out therapists
(03:15):
and the focus at that timeseemed to just be on what we
could do medically.
Um, but I always knew deep downinside that there was something
else that, you know, justcouldn't be touched by those per
those practices.
And so I'm glad you broughtthat, you know, to the to the
forefront because I think that'suh missing in a lot of our uh
(03:36):
wholeness journeys is thatspiritual component.
Um, so we're talking about theselimiting beliefs and again how
they affect us and um how theysometimes trap us and keep us
from walking in the destiny andeven in our fulfillment of what
God has designed for us.
Um, what's some what are some ofthe patterns of limited beliefs
that you believe most peoplestruggle with?
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Yeah, well, I'll start and say no one's exempt.
We already engage in some formor pattern of uh negative
thinking in the psychology,mental health world, we refer to
those as cognitive distortions,right?
So they're not absolutely true.
But if I had to say from myobservations of practice with
clients as well as like friends,and even my own journey, I think
(04:21):
a lot of people struggle withworthiness.
There's a lot of things withfear that look like fear of
failure, rejection, orabandonment.
There's also that perfectionismand comparison that comes in and
wreaks havoc.
And I mean, I think somethingthat is huge, and especially now
given everything that's goingon, is that scarcity thinking.
(04:45):
That is there's not enough forthem.
Um, but what I found, and I'vebeen able to put a label on
through like the lenses that Godhas given me is that most of us
are in a spiritual identitycrisis, and that's how these
negative thoughts are able toprevail.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
First of all, you hit the nail on the head because
so many of what you so much ofwhat you said um explains a lot,
and I feel like it's gonna helpa lot of people.
You said that many of us are inan identity crisis, a spiritual
one, to be specific.
Spiritual identity crisis,because it there is a
difference, right?
And because of that, first ofall, we have to be able to know
(05:20):
who we are, and I feel like wecan't know who we are until we
know who he is.
Exactly.
And then we're anchored in whenwe're anchored in knowing who he
is, he affirms us, he validatesus, he gives us who we are in
him.
Like the Bible says, it's in himthat I move and breathe and have
my very being.
I remember feeling like I didn'thave possession of my being, I
(05:43):
didn't know who I was, where Iwas, and you know, even I could
I felt like I I was away fromhome and couldn't get back to
myself.
And and I remember feeling sovulnerable, yeah.
That crisis of not being able tobe one with yourself, not being
one with the Father, not beingone with the Holy Spirit, which
gives you that grounding is soimportant.
(06:06):
Now, how do you think thoselimiting beliefs keep us stuck
in like cycles of defeat andunpotential?
SPEAKER_02 (06:13):
So that just those thoughts and alone stop people
from even trying.
If you think that you're notgood enough, so they become a
lens through which you see everyinteraction, every engagement.
And so some of them they can goeven further and they can become
a core belief.
And so if you have a core beliefthat you are unlovable, you will
(06:33):
sabotage every good relationshipthat comes into your life.
But then you're gonna runstraight towards the toxic ones
that's gonna reinforce your corebelief because we cannot act
against a core belief unless wefirst do some cognitive work to
restructure what that thinkinglooks like, right?
So then people are just like,well, why bother?
(06:55):
Right?
People are gonna leave all thetime, or it's too late, I'm too
old.
These are things that we'retelling ourselves.
And so you hit it earlier in theintroduction about how these
things keep you out of purpose.
And I'll go as far as to saythat even this pattern of
thinking, that's that's theenemy, right?
(07:16):
Because he wants our mind,because through our mind, he
gets us to act, through ourheart, he gets us to act, and
then that is us living and sin,right?
And so it is spiritual warfare.
And if you this is why you haveto be in your Bible, this is why
you have to put on the fullarmor of God, because if you
(07:36):
have that on, these things won'tprevail.
If you know who you are andwhose you are, you already know
how to combat that withscripture.
But we're not always taughtthat, it's not always modeled,
and I know even for the longestfor me, I knew the scripture,
but I wasn't like, you know, itwas blind and that how do I
(07:56):
describe it?
It's like I knew the Bible wasreal, and I just had never
really surrendered, I guess iswhat I said.
It wasn't until I really andtruly surrendered to God where
life like dragged me and had meat bedrock, knock rock bottom,
for a bedrock moment because wecan build up from bedrock,
right?
It's only bottom that you staythere.
(08:19):
And uh a negative belief wasgoing in my mind, and I had to
stop and think.
I said, Girl, that's not evenyour thought.
And I knew exactly who it camefrom.
And at first, like I asked Godto just like remove that person
from my thoughts.
And then I said, No, no, no, no,no, Father, extract them from my
entire being.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Right.
Let's let's get rid of it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
There's no room for that because you know, you can
spend time allowing thesebeliefs to surface, but like
they can happen as early, likein our formative years, you
know, right.
Things that were said to us,said about us, things we observe
that other people experience.
They come from culture, theycome from music, they come from
family.
(08:58):
And these things will lead usinto self-sabotage, will
procrastinate, we will peopleplease, and that could even look
like a little bit of idolatryand putting people before God.
Um, it can be us isolating oreven shrinking when we have the
opportunity to be present andnot operating in the authority
(09:18):
that God gives to us.
It takes a lot of energy.
Yeah, it takes a lot of energy,and you know, those limiting
beliefs mean that there's aceiling.
So, one, you have a mentalceiling, but also you're putting
a ceiling on God and what he cando for you and what he will do
for you, right?
How he will completely transformyour life, and we have to really
(09:42):
and truly know our word.
We really do.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Now that is key right there.
I like what you said when you umyou said that um there was a
point in your life where you hadto identify the source of the
voice that you were hearing.
There's a scripture in the Biblethat talks about my sheep.
They know my voice.
When they hear me, they obey me.
And sometimes we think we thinkof that in terms of just
obedience, but that also meansidentifying those negative
(10:09):
voices that come from, like yousaid, maybe things that happen
in your formative years, sometraumatic experiences, um, maybe
past relationship.
But identifying those voicesthat is of the enemy, because we
know God speaks to us in love,he affirms and confirms his word
over us all of the time.
And so I think that it is keyabout identifying those voices.
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
I'm gonna tell you something else about the inner
enemy is that he can get in yourmind, and after a while, it's
not even him anymore, it's youbecause he's planting the seed
and you water it.
So it's not even always him.
It may have started with him,but we take it on.
How do we water those seeds?
Give us an example of how we dothat.
The way of watering that, solike you have a doubt about
(10:53):
maybe your appearance.
Then you're you start pickingyourself apart.
Yeah.
Or you just you just allow, likewhen people say they go down the
rabbit hole, you don't disruptit.
We water it when we allow it toprevail.
When we add to it, we call otherpeople, that's probably gonna
make us feel bad.
Like we when we wanna confirmsomething, good or bad, we know
(11:16):
who to call.
When you don't bring in what Godsaid, so like when you don't
challenge it, right?
So instead of disproving it, welook for information to confirm
it.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Instead of disproving it, yes, those
negative beliefs, those liesthat the enemy has told us over
that, like you said, evensometimes we repeat to
ourselves, instead of disprovingit, we look for ways to confirm
it.
And you know what?
Even on and to that, to yourpoint, even on the opposite
spectrum, there were times whereI would be as loving and as
(11:54):
gracious and as kind, as patientwith someone else.
But when it comes to turningthat thing around and extending
grace to myself and extendinglove and forgiveness and all of
those things, sometimes thoseare the areas where we fall
short and we don't realize we'renot we're doing ourselves a
disservice.
It's a lack of self-faction.
(12:14):
It's totally self-confession.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
And I'll also say this now.
This might ruffle a few feathersthough, but I think too, just
the way in which we interpretthe Bible and Jesus' character,
whereas Jesus, others, and thenyourself, that we take that too
far and we give ourselves theabsolute last.
(12:39):
We don't take care of ourselves.
Scripture also says our bodiesare a temple and we're supposed
to take care of it, but that'smind, body, and spirit, right?
Like we are the temple, it'smind, body, and spirit.
We have to take care of all ofit.
But if we're pouring out toeveryone else, we're running
ourselves into the ground, we'reengaged in people pleasing, all
these things, and then we can'teven show up as our best self.
(13:01):
How do you think you're evensupposed to like show up in
purpose?
You have nothing left, you havenothing, and so it's finding
that healthy balance and givingthe character, the love of God
and Christ, and all of yourinteractions with people,
including yourself, includingyourself, because you know what?
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
I was talking about this with someone else, and we
know the scripture that talksabout loving others as you love
yourself.
But there's a part of thescripture that I feel like we
automatically overlook.
We see the first part, loveothers.
But the Bible says, as you loveyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
So I can't love you beyond the love that I have for
myself.
Everyone says, if there's apossibility where I'm giving you
more than I'm giving myself,then perhaps what I am really
looking for is for you tovalidate that I'm worthy of that
that I'm giving to you, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
I had to go through the face where I had to
recognize I said, God, you aremy authenticator and validator.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
Well, yeah.
It's about going back to thesource.
And in the very beginning stagesof my healing journey, my focus
and my kind of dependency wasmore on CBT, DBT skills, you
know, and there's nothing wrongwith them.
SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
A lot of those you can tie biblically.
He broke that wall down for mebetween mental health and his
word.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
How have you been able to integrate the word of
God, your spiritual practices,with those that one would
consider holistic or practical?
SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
Yeah, I think they all go together and it's all
based on what the client needs,right?
And so it's clear in that I, youknow, I am a faith-led
clinician.
And so depending on the client,how long if they introduce
scripture, they will.
Some of them they say, Ispecifically came to you because
I saw that you are faith-based,that you incorporate this in.
(14:51):
So we get real.
Some of my clients, they havethe same way they got treatment
goals, they got spiritual goalsthat go along with them that
align with it.
And that could look likesometimes praying if it comes to
that in therapy, if that'sneeded, if they ask, or I'll ask
them, would would it be okay if,you know, and even scripture.
unknown (15:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
And so giving them things to reflect on, or
depending on what it is thatthey're going through, have you
talked to God about it?
Have you prayed about this?
Wow.
And helping them to develop thatlanguage to bring God in, invite
God into their healing, inviteGod into their goals.
You know, the Bible tells us tocommit our plans to the Lord and
He will establish them.
(15:32):
But helping them to see theconnections between where
they're struggling and whattheir word looks like.
I've had two clients in thislast year, they got baptized.
Like the support that I providedthem helped them.
And then I've had others likerecommit, find church homes.
So he took me through thatjourney personally, myself
(15:53):
first.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
Right.
I was gonna say, you know, wehave to bring to him our own
personal experiences for beforewe can even help somebody else,
right?
I feel like knowing andunderstanding the source of your
strength, of your help, knowingand understanding that the power
to be able to even walk out andapply these things comes from
God.
Um, you spoke to one of thetools being in some of your
(16:18):
practices, prayer.
And just for a moment, I want tospeak to that because as someone
who has experienced so manytypes of trauma, so many types
of abuse, and just so much overin my formative years, it did
affect me mentally.
And one of the areas in which Iwas was of deeply affected is I
(16:39):
struggle with dissociation.
And I remember the first timethat I began to come to the Lord
in prayer about them and beganto give that part of my mental
health struggle to God inprayer.
I felt myself come back tomyself.
I felt myself reconnect withmyself.
(17:00):
And I was like, oh God, I feelfor the first time in a long
time like I'm home.
And it was so sobering, but italso created an awareness of
this is where I need to be whenlife tries to deregulate me.
This is what I need to do whenthey, as they say, when I feel
like I'm about to crash out.
This is what I need to do whenI'm triggered.
(17:22):
Even if I don't understand whatthe trigger is in that moment, I
have a place, right?
That I can go.
I have a place where I belong,where I can kind of re-up, if
you will.
Like, you know, get my strength,get my focus, get my clarity
back.
And what I love about God is itdoesn't run out.
It's something that is readilyavailable to you all the time,
(17:43):
anytime, day or night.
And I just want to emphasizethat for somebody else who may
struggle with um periods ofdissociation or just
deregulation.
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
Prayer works, it works, and it is the Bible tells
us to abide in him, right?
And so we never have to leavehis presence.
We never have to leave hispresence.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
But it was learning that dependency on God because
that was one of myvulnerabilities too.
Like I didn't want to neednobody, you know what I mean?
Because growing up, I didn'thave anybody.
So you kind of becomeself-reliant, right?
But in the kingdom of God, whenyou're learning that he wants to
replace those negative copingmechanisms, you have to realize,
(18:25):
like, this is a whole nother wayto do things here.
You know what I mean?
It's a whole nother way for meto get my needs met here.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
And you're absolutely right.
So there's have you heard ofattachment theory before?
I have.
So what happens with attachment,we project our earthly
attachments onto God.
So if we have any of the threeinsecure attachments, so
there's, you know, secureattachment, anxious, avoidant,
and then we have thedisorganized attachment, right?
(18:54):
All of us experience some levelof anxiety and avoidance in our
relationship.
Okay.
And so the more anxiety youhave, the more avoidance you
have, that determines which ofthose categories you're in.
So if you're looking at that onthe table, so if you're down
here in this area, you gotsecure attachment, but you still
experience avoidance andanxiety.
(19:14):
But if you have higher avoidanceand lower anxiety, that puts you
in avoidance.
If you got higher anxiety andlower avoidance that puts you in
the anxious or like even preanxious preoccupied.
But if you got high anxiety andhigh avoidance that puts you in
disorganized said, you didn'thave anyone to rely on, which
would likely tell me you'reeither falling in the avoidant
(19:38):
or the disorganized.
But, you know, like we don'thave a choice about that.
Um, just because life is life.
Our parents had what they hadand what they didn't, and we
adapt.
Whatever that looks like withour caregivers.
So this is why I say that theonly codependent relationship
you ever want to be in is thatwith God.
(20:00):
That's the only codependentrelationship we want in our
life.
Like, I don't make moves withoutGod.
God will be eating it down.
What you want me to put on?
What am I putting on?
What you want me to do?
And it's it's actually likereally freeing, even though if
you imagine, can you imaginedoing that with another human
being asking them all of thesethings and how that could easily
(20:22):
be violated and turned intocontrol and manipulation?
Right.
And this is what happensliterally to people in abusive
relationships.
However, it's not like that atall with God.
When I tell you I'm a daddy'sgirl that I don't even be
worrying, no, that's right.
I don't even scramble.
I'll be like, Daddy, I don'tknow where the money's gonna
come from.
You got it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Come on.
But I know you're gonna makesome sort of way.
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Right.
And when I tell you random stuffstarts happening, it's a
beautiful thing.
So when I say I live a soft lifenow, I'll have the thoughts and
I'll just give them to him.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
You said a lot.
I like how you explained thatavoiding attachment.
Sometimes we want to mask it inindependence.
I'm an independent woman, youknow.
I'm always gonna do what I'mdoing.
And all the meanwhile, you'reburning out and you're getting
further and further away fromtrue peace, from you know, true
rest.
Um, my focus this year hasliterally been mastering rest.
(21:18):
Because one of the limitingbeliefs that I have struggled
with, I'm telling all mybusiness today.
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
One of the bonus all the time on my heart.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
One of the limiting beliefs that I had struggled
with was that rest was earned,not a birthright.
Okay.
Can I take you to the scripturesreal quick?
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
Yes, it's probably the same one I got in mind.
Go ahead.
In the beginning, God modeledthis for us in Genesis.
On the seventh day, he rested,God modeled rest.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
But that struggle, that that mindset or that
thought was that again, I had toearn rest because when I was
growing up, I never really sawmy caregivers resting.
They waited until they were likedog tired, they were like
exhausted and just, you know,crashed, you know.
And so I had developed thismindset that if I crossed
everything off my to-do list,met all my deliverables, did all
(22:10):
my goals, then I was worthy ofrest.
Then I had deserved it.
Yeah.
And the trouble with thatmindset is that you don't
necessarily have to work for,work for deserving something
that has already been given,allotted to you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
Like been modeled.
So as you're saying that, I waslike, this all goes back to
attachment.
It goes back to those formativeyears early on in experiencing
emotional safety.
Are your caregivers expressingdelight in you?
Do you feel safe with them?
Like there are so many differentthings.
And if you don't have that, itputs you in this state of having
(22:48):
to earn everything.
But we've been given languagelike, you know, nothing worth
having comes easy.
So we think everything gotta becrazy and chaos, and we won't
take the keys in when sometimesGod opened the door that no man
can shut, and we're choosing notto go through it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:05):
Right.
And because we it wasn't hardenough.
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
Yeah, because it wasn't hard enough.
Absolutely.
And the same thing withrelationships.
So there are these things that Ithink were meant for good that
our caregivers were trying toteach us to uh a healthy work
ethic, but it was unbalancedbecause they too worked too
hard.
And if there is one thing peoplehate to be labeled as is lazy,
right?
Right.
Especially in black and browncommunities, and then basically
(23:30):
in the black community in thediaspora, right, which was all
impacted by enslavement and somekind of capacity, that was one
of those beliefs that they putin our mind about rest having to
be earned, about rest then beinglazy.
And so then what happens is thatwe burn out.
And if you're burned out, youcannot, you're not operating on
(23:50):
purpose.
That means you are out ofalignment.
And if you are out of alignment,you have to come back in.
That means you need to adjustand recalibrate some things.
That means we're not doing itthe way God intended you to do.
And I get that we're doing whatwe've seen, but at what point do
we stop and allow ourselves toexamine it?
Right.
Right, is there a better way todo this versus doing it because
(24:14):
this is what's been happeningfor generation upon generation?
Exactly.
But you see, you feel, you know,right the havoc is wreaking on
you.
And your body, your mind, andyour mind, and your spirit.
And I think because so many ofour beliefs are so closely tied
to people that we care about, welove, and we respect, that we
(24:35):
feel like if I change thisbelief, it's somehow saying
something about them.
Or also it could lead toisolation from the only
community that I know.
Not acknowledging that thiscommunity is yes, it's
community, but it's not pouringinto you.
It doesn't align with God, withwhat God has for you, what He's
(24:56):
calling you to do.
So if you want to belong tobelong and sacrifice your
purpose, your calling, you'renot gonna have peace with that
ever.
Um, share this quote.
I'm gonna see if I can get itright.
From uh Dr.
Tony Roach Jr.
Let me see if I get it.
What you see is what you say.
What you say is what you sow.
What you sow is what you Nope,that ain't it.
(25:20):
What you see is what you say,what you say is what you do,
what you do is what you are,what you are is what you sow,
what you sow is what you reap,and what you reap is what you
deserve.
In that, right, it to me, I hearculture.
Yeah.
I hear culture.
What you see is what you say,right?
(25:40):
So what's around us, that's whatyou start to say, that's your
belief.
And it gets to our authority aswell as speaking, and why we
have to protect our gates,right?
Yeah, and thinking about whatGod modeled for us.
Notice that quote says, What yousee is what you say.
But God said it, then he saw it.
You see how you see how theworld will confuse us, will have
(26:00):
us flipping it around andthinking you gotta see it to
believe it.
No, we speak it, and then it is,and then we see it.
That's it, and that's what Godhas modeled.
And so the world, the logic thatpeople use that's safe, and we
need both, obviously.
Yeah, but it's like it goes awayfrom the foundation.
It's like we say it, then we seeit.
I don't have to see it, believeit.
(26:21):
I know that I speak it, I willsee it.
And if God allowed me to see it,and it's an alignment with his
will, then it's going to be.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Because we walk by faith and not by sight.
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
And then there's that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
I love what you said.
You said a few times that Godhas modeled things for us.
And sometimes we get so hung upon what was not modeled or what
we did not have and what we dolack, right?
That scarcity mindset that youspoke about in the very
beginning.
Sometimes we get caught up inthat and we forget that it has
(26:53):
been modeled.
It is here for ourunderstanding, for our
reception, and even for our owngrowth, which means we're gonna
have to depend on the HolySpirit to give us that
enlightenment, to give us thatrevelation.
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
And I also would encourage people to be like King
Solomon and ask God for wisdom,ask him for clarity because you
can feel in your spirit whenit's uneasy.
And then if you are feelingrushed, if you're feeling tense,
any of those things is notpeace, then you know what that
is.
God is not the author ofconfusion, God brings us peace.
(27:25):
So when you feel that that's anindicator to go pray and talk to
God.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Look, I always tell God, I'm one of your remedial
kids, and I don't care.
Um, tell me step by step.
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
That is the best, but that here's the thing.
God, you we gotta be able tocome to God like a child.
We do.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
Like a child, like a child.
One of my favorite scriptures isthe story of Gideon and how
pretty much he was looking forconfirmation in the book of
Judges, 636, for somebody whowants to follow this.
Yeah, he wanted to confirm thatGod would save Israel.
So he asked God um if therewould be dew on the ground, I
mean on the fleece only and noton the ground that would prove
(28:02):
that God was with him, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
Another exact idea.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
But I love the way God handled him in that story
because he asked him twice andGod accommodated him.
It shows me that he knows theareas in which we need to be
strengthened, he knows the areasin which our faith needs to be,
you know, brought to anotherlevel, and so that we now going
forward can come to the placewhere you did it before.
You will lead me step by step tothis next place, even in
(28:29):
transition.
Gideon was in transition, right?
And sometimes we get lost inthose areas of transitioning,
transitioning from brokenness towholeness when we get lost.
And sometimes we're like Gideon,where we're like, okay, well, if
you really here, if you reallytold me to do this podcast, if
you really told me to share mydrama, like, you know, give me
confirmation.
And I I just love thatparticular story where God he
(28:50):
handled him, you know, in a wayin which it affirmed him and it
gave him security.
You know what I mean?
I loved it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
I don't think there's anything wrong with
asking for confirmation becauseGod, He knows each of us, He
knows our hearts, right?
Like He knows what's in there,He also knows what we've lived
through and what we've beenthrough.
And that's another thing.
Um, you were asking how likeincorporating prayer with my
clients.
Yeah, I'm like, ask God to putit to you in a way that you can
(29:22):
understand it and it'sunmistakable that it's Him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
Yeah.
People always say, I'm gonnahear God talk to me.
What does it sound like for Godto speak to me?
So many times it wasn't audibly,it was annoying, it was a peace.
And so I've come to realize,like you said, when there's an
absence of peace, when there'san absence of clarity, when
there's an absence of thatsecurity, am I operating in my
own will, desires, flesh, or amI needing to wait until, even
(29:50):
perhaps like Gideon did, Godconfirms for me what I need in
order to move on?
Um, even in terms of counteringthose negative beliefs.
SPEAKER_02 (30:00):
I'm grabbing my Bible over here.
Like, you could just thumpthrough this thing and stop on a
random page.
Like, if you're really seekingsomething.
Like, I've done this before.
I'm just like, I'm gonna justopen the Bible and see where it
goes.
And if God didn't lead mesomewhere, so he put me over
here, my eyes first landed inProverbs 5.
I don't know.
(30:21):
Okay.
My son, attend unto my wisdomand how thine ear to my
understanding.
This is what we're talkingabout.
And that's literally youstarting to do it.
This is what he's doing, y'all.
This is what he does.
But you gotta tap in.
That's really and truly what itis.
You have to tap in.
SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
And ask God to help you with your unbelief.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:46):
And that's gonna help you restructure those
negative beliefs, those negativethoughts, because those
represent unbelief.
Because if you really believethat God is who he says he is,
then there's no way that thosethings that you're saying and
those thoughts you're allowingto prevail can exist if you say
he is who he says.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Right.
I thought it was interestingthat you were led to the book of
Proverbs because Proverbs speaksso much about wisdom, um, so
much about the practicality oflife and the and the and the the
difference between someone whooperates a wisdom and and you
know, someone who lives infolly.
And sometimes we be out hereliving in folly and don't even
realize it.
But it's written right there foryou.
(31:24):
We got an open book test withall the answers.
SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
Girl, that's the one.
But what I also love is likethis is literally our first time
talking.
I had no idea that you knewProverbs 5 like that.
You see how you broke that down?
Like, this is how God works.
He led me to that, and you'relike, oh, it talks about all of
these things.
This is how God works, y'all.
There are no coincidences, thereare only divine appointments.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
God's not all it is, and that's why these type of
conversations are needed.
Um, we know obviously we'remeeting the uh um this platform,
you know, for our podcast and tobe able to spread awareness, but
also to be able to reach peoplewho may not ever be able to have
this conversation with someoneelse.
So people are, I am a firmbeliever that there is people
(32:08):
who are looking for help, forcommunity, for um to be able to
say, I can identify with this.
And if you were able to comeout, if God was able to bring
you out, if God was able to healyou, to help you, then perhaps
he really isn't that respectiveof persons.
He can do it for me.
SPEAKER_02 (32:27):
Also, I heard you say something about uh earlier,
and you were like, God, you wantme to do the podcast?
You want me to share my trauma?
Like, and you're talking aboutobedience.
That's exactly how I am sittinghere with you today.
The content that you see is thathe did a very similar thing with
me.
The way he started my channel, Ihad to give my testimony first.
(32:48):
Wow.
Or obedience is somebody isattached to someone else's
breakthrough.
So when we don't do those thingsthat God has said, we are
slowing somebody else down inthe process.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
Come on.
Wow.
It's just like God to comealongside of us to confirm,
yeah, you you in the right path.
You're doing what I told you todo, right?
Um honestly, I wasn't lookingfor you.
You weren't looking for me.
You know, like one of the firstum things you said in your first
correspondence with me was, I'mglad I landed on your first,
your um for you page.
(33:20):
But one of my prayers is God,align me with people who will
confirm what you're doing in mylife, in their life.
Dr.
J.
Nicole, first of all, you doneturned me every way but loose
with this conversation, okay?
But I love, I love andappreciate the gift that you are
to the body of Christ, the giftthat you are to the mental
(33:41):
health world and how youintegrate them both.
We need it's so very muchneeded, especially in this day
and age.
SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
I'm thankful that God has chosen me as a vessel
and that I got into alignmentbecause if I didn't, this
conversation would have neverhappened.
You wouldn't have gotten theconversation to that.
It really, well, you would haveused someone else.
And what you don't know is thatone of my prayers has been for
spiritually aligned connection.
Yes.
And so for you to say, you knowwhat I mean?
(34:10):
You were asking God forspiritual alignment and
confirmation, like this is thisis what he does.
And I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:17):
What would your final thoughts that you would
like to leave with someone whosay, you know what?
I want to change the way Ithink, I want to change the way
I feel, I want to change the wayI even see and perceive myself.
Where would someone who wantedto make that change start?
SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
Uh, one, it would definitely start with awareness.
And I want you to think aboutthings and challenge it, like
who told me this?
Where did I learn this?
You know what I mean?
Because we have to hold and takeevery thought captive and
explore that, and that will helpus to be able to challenge that
(34:51):
and replace those negativebeliefs with positive things,
and those then become theevidence.
And people are looking forproof, like you will find the
proof because God is in there.
And so, and you have to believethat is true, and so a lot of
times it is our own thoughts andwhat we don't check that allow
(35:13):
this to prevail, and it turnsinto personality, and then it
turns into identity and is builton lies.
And I would encourage people to,if they don't know where to
start in that, is to spend theirtime with God, Lord, show me the
lies that I believe about myselfand replace them with your
truths.
(35:34):
Show me who you created me tobe.
He will do it.
And I know because I've prayedthese prayers, I've had these
conversations with God, right?
He will do it.
One more thing courage toreceive what it is you reveal to
me.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Wow.
So awareness, revelation, andcourage is needed to begin
transforming your thoughts,which will trans ultimately
transform your life.
Dr.
J.
Nicole, if someone is listeningto this and they're like,
listen, I got to get a hold ofher, I need some more of her
content.
I need to know if she's licensedin my state.
I need a therapist, I need acoach, a mentor, I just need
(36:15):
community.
Tell us where they can reachyou.
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
Yes.
So if you are in Maryland, uh,you can schedule some therapy.
So you can go to www.evolve ordrjnicole.com.
Um, I also offer coaching.
So if you are not in the stateof Maryland, I can help with
coaching.
I also do purpose coaching andhelping people to figure out uh
what their purpose is and usingmy I am method to help you with
(36:41):
that.
Um, yeah, see where you are sothat you can grow closer and
deeper in that relationship withGod and um be operating a
purpose.
You can catch me on TikTok andum Instagram with evolve at
evolva drjnicole.
The podcast page is risingtharber Dr.
J Nicole on Instagram, andfinally you can catch my podcast
(37:06):
that's on YouTube, all the majorstreaming platforms, but YouTube
is where you can actually seethe video.
Um, but yeah, just you can checkme out in those ways.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Awesome.
Again, thank you so much foryour contribution, for your
wisdom, for your insight, uh,for your knowledge, and for your
authenticity, you know, beingreal, applying your own life
experiences in order to be ableto help other people.
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
All right, guys, thanks so much for tuning in to
today's episode.
Remember, now thanks be unto Godwho always causes us to triumph.
I'll see you next time.
Bye.
Hey y'all, welcome to Triumph Over Trauma, the
podcast.
Listen, y'all, I created thispodcast because, like so many
other people, I've had atraumatic past.
I didn't always realize howthose things affected me
negatively and how I evencarried them into my adult life.
And so I wanted to create aspace where other people can
come and we could have candidconversations how do you
(00:21):
identify trauma?
How do you navigate it and howyou recover from traumatic
experiences?
If this resonates with you, thenjoin me.
I am your host and traumasurvivor, Miss Eve McNair.
Let's get into it.
Okay, guys, welcome back to theshow.
Uh today we're gonna dive intosomething that affects so many
of us.
It's limiting beliefs.
You know, those quiet, negativethoughts that tell us what we
(00:42):
can't do, who we're not, wherewe can't go, and what we'll
never become.
But what if God is calling us tochallenge those lies and walk in
the fullness of who he createdus to be?
My guest today knows thisjourney firsthand, and we're
going to unpack what it lookslike to identify, confront, and
replace those negative orlimiting beliefs with truth.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
So I want to welcome to the show today, Dr.
Jay Nicole.
How are you today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
I'm fantastic.
Thank you for having me.
And this is such an importanttopic, so I can't wait for us to
dig in.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, I can identify myselfbattling limiting beliefs and
having to overcome and in and inmany cases still working on some
of those.
So um, again, I'm like you said,I'm excited about this
conversation.
Before we get started, I want tomake sure that people put some
respect on your name.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself and what you do and
(01:40):
what you would like the audienceto know about yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (01:42):
Yes, I'm Dr.
Jay Nicole Simpson.
I'm the CEO, founder, and umprimary psychotherapist at
Evolve Therapy and Wellness,which also houses the Rise and
Thrive of Dr.
J.
Nicole podcast.
So um, with the practice evolve,my belief and my approach with
clients in therapy as well ascoaching is that it's a space
where mind, body, and spiritalign.
(02:04):
Um, because anytime something isoff in any one of those areas is
going to show up in the other.
So we need to be um balanced.
We are spiritual regardless ofwhat people believe or what they
believe in.
There is a component to us thatjust can't be explained that
there is something bigger thanself.
Um so I meet people where theyare in that journey and help
(02:26):
them find purpose, uh, navigatehealing.
And then the uh podcast is wherefaith and wellness intersect.
So I'm able to bring togetherfaith as well as my mental
health background to be able tohave conversations with people
who have real life livedexperiences and they're able to
(02:47):
share their testimonies abouttheir own growth, their
evolution, and how God hasshowed up in their life.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
I like specifically what you said, though, about how
there is another component, youknow, sometimes that is um
unseen to the naked eye, and itdoes require you to put on a
spiritual lens.
And um, even when I think aboutmy own healing journey and in my
beginning stages, I remember,you know, vetting out therapists
(03:15):
and the focus at that timeseemed to just be on what we
could do medically.
Um, but I always knew deep downinside that there was something
else that, you know, justcouldn't be touched by those per
those practices.
And so I'm glad you broughtthat, you know, to the to the
forefront because I think that'suh missing in a lot of our uh
(03:36):
wholeness journeys is thatspiritual component.
Um, so we're talking about theselimiting beliefs and again how
they affect us and um how theysometimes trap us and keep us
from walking in the destiny andeven in our fulfillment of what
God has designed for us.
Um, what's some what are some ofthe patterns of limited beliefs
that you believe most peoplestruggle with?
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Yeah, well, I'll start and say no one's exempt.
We already engage in some formor pattern of uh negative
thinking in the psychology,mental health world, we refer to
those as cognitive distortions,right?
So they're not absolutely true.
But if I had to say from myobservations of practice with
clients as well as like friends,and even my own journey, I think
(04:21):
a lot of people struggle withworthiness.
There's a lot of things withfear that look like fear of
failure, rejection, orabandonment.
There's also that perfectionismand comparison that comes in and
wreaks havoc.
And I mean, I think somethingthat is huge, and especially now
given everything that's goingon, is that scarcity thinking.
(04:45):
That is there's not enough forthem.
Um, but what I found, and I'vebeen able to put a label on
through like the lenses that Godhas given me is that most of us
are in a spiritual identitycrisis, and that's how these
negative thoughts are able toprevail.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
First of all, you hit the nail on the head because
so many of what you so much ofwhat you said um explains a lot,
and I feel like it's gonna helpa lot of people.
You said that many of us are inan identity crisis, a spiritual
one, to be specific.
Spiritual identity crisis,because it there is a
difference, right?
And because of that, first ofall, we have to be able to know
(05:20):
who we are, and I feel like wecan't know who we are until we
know who he is.
Exactly.
And then we're anchored in whenwe're anchored in knowing who he
is, he affirms us, he validatesus, he gives us who we are in
him.
Like the Bible says, it's in himthat I move and breathe and have
my very being.
I remember feeling like I didn'thave possession of my being, I
(05:43):
didn't know who I was, where Iwas, and you know, even I could
I felt like I I was away fromhome and couldn't get back to
myself.
And and I remember feeling sovulnerable, yeah.
That crisis of not being able tobe one with yourself, not being
one with the Father, not beingone with the Holy Spirit, which
gives you that grounding is soimportant.
(06:06):
Now, how do you think thoselimiting beliefs keep us stuck
in like cycles of defeat andunpotential?
SPEAKER_02 (06:13):
So that just those thoughts and alone stop people
from even trying.
If you think that you're notgood enough, so they become a
lens through which you see everyinteraction, every engagement.
And so some of them they can goeven further and they can become
a core belief.
And so if you have a core beliefthat you are unlovable, you will
(06:33):
sabotage every good relationshipthat comes into your life.
But then you're gonna runstraight towards the toxic ones
that's gonna reinforce your corebelief because we cannot act
against a core belief unless wefirst do some cognitive work to
restructure what that thinkinglooks like, right?
So then people are just like,well, why bother?
(06:55):
Right?
People are gonna leave all thetime, or it's too late, I'm too
old.
These are things that we'retelling ourselves.
And so you hit it earlier in theintroduction about how these
things keep you out of purpose.
And I'll go as far as to saythat even this pattern of
thinking, that's that's theenemy, right?
(07:16):
Because he wants our mind,because through our mind, he
gets us to act, through ourheart, he gets us to act, and
then that is us living and sin,right?
And so it is spiritual warfare.
And if you this is why you haveto be in your Bible, this is why
you have to put on the fullarmor of God, because if you
(07:36):
have that on, these things won'tprevail.
If you know who you are andwhose you are, you already know
how to combat that withscripture.
But we're not always taughtthat, it's not always modeled,
and I know even for the longestfor me, I knew the scripture,
but I wasn't like, you know, itwas blind and that how do I
(07:56):
describe it?
It's like I knew the Bible wasreal, and I just had never
really surrendered, I guess iswhat I said.
It wasn't until I really andtruly surrendered to God where
life like dragged me and had meat bedrock, knock rock bottom,
for a bedrock moment because wecan build up from bedrock,
right?
It's only bottom that you staythere.
(08:19):
And uh a negative belief wasgoing in my mind, and I had to
stop and think.
I said, Girl, that's not evenyour thought.
And I knew exactly who it camefrom.
And at first, like I asked Godto just like remove that person
from my thoughts.
And then I said, No, no, no, no,no, Father, extract them from my
entire being.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Right.
Let's let's get rid of it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
There's no room for that because you know, you can
spend time allowing thesebeliefs to surface, but like
they can happen as early, likein our formative years, you
know, right.
Things that were said to us,said about us, things we observe
that other people experience.
They come from culture, theycome from music, they come from
family.
(08:58):
And these things will lead usinto self-sabotage, will
procrastinate, we will peopleplease, and that could even look
like a little bit of idolatryand putting people before God.
Um, it can be us isolating oreven shrinking when we have the
opportunity to be present andnot operating in the authority
(09:18):
that God gives to us.
It takes a lot of energy.
Yeah, it takes a lot of energy,and you know, those limiting
beliefs mean that there's aceiling.
So, one, you have a mentalceiling, but also you're putting
a ceiling on God and what he cando for you and what he will do
for you, right?
How he will completely transformyour life, and we have to really
(09:42):
and truly know our word.
We really do.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Now that is key right there.
I like what you said when you umyou said that um there was a
point in your life where you hadto identify the source of the
voice that you were hearing.
There's a scripture in the Biblethat talks about my sheep.
They know my voice.
When they hear me, they obey me.
And sometimes we think we thinkof that in terms of just
obedience, but that also meansidentifying those negative
(10:09):
voices that come from, like yousaid, maybe things that happen
in your formative years, sometraumatic experiences, um, maybe
past relationship.
But identifying those voicesthat is of the enemy, because we
know God speaks to us in love,he affirms and confirms his word
over us all of the time.
And so I think that it is keyabout identifying those voices.
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
I'm gonna tell you something else about the inner
enemy is that he can get in yourmind, and after a while, it's
not even him anymore, it's youbecause he's planting the seed
and you water it.
So it's not even always him.
It may have started with him,but we take it on.
How do we water those seeds?
Give us an example of how we dothat.
The way of watering that, solike you have a doubt about
(10:53):
maybe your appearance.
Then you're you start pickingyourself apart.
Yeah.
Or you just you just allow, likewhen people say they go down the
rabbit hole, you don't disruptit.
We water it when we allow it toprevail.
When we add to it, we call otherpeople, that's probably gonna
make us feel bad.
Like we when we wanna confirmsomething, good or bad, we know
(11:16):
who to call.
When you don't bring in what Godsaid, so like when you don't
challenge it, right?
So instead of disproving it, welook for information to confirm
it.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Instead of disproving it, yes, those
negative beliefs, those liesthat the enemy has told us over
that, like you said, evensometimes we repeat to
ourselves, instead of disprovingit, we look for ways to confirm
it.
And you know what?
Even on and to that, to yourpoint, even on the opposite
spectrum, there were times whereI would be as loving and as
(11:54):
gracious and as kind, as patientwith someone else.
But when it comes to turningthat thing around and extending
grace to myself and extendinglove and forgiveness and all of
those things, sometimes thoseare the areas where we fall
short and we don't realize we'renot we're doing ourselves a
disservice.
It's a lack of self-faction.
(12:14):
It's totally self-confession.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
And I'll also say this now.
This might ruffle a few feathersthough, but I think too, just
the way in which we interpretthe Bible and Jesus' character,
whereas Jesus, others, and thenyourself, that we take that too
far and we give ourselves theabsolute last.
(12:39):
We don't take care of ourselves.
Scripture also says our bodiesare a temple and we're supposed
to take care of it, but that'smind, body, and spirit, right?
Like we are the temple, it'smind, body, and spirit.
We have to take care of all ofit.
But if we're pouring out toeveryone else, we're running
ourselves into the ground, we'reengaged in people pleasing, all
these things, and then we can'teven show up as our best self.
(13:01):
How do you think you're evensupposed to like show up in
purpose?
You have nothing left, you havenothing, and so it's finding
that healthy balance and givingthe character, the love of God
and Christ, and all of yourinteractions with people,
including yourself, includingyourself, because you know what?
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
I was talking about this with someone else, and we
know the scripture that talksabout loving others as you love
yourself.
But there's a part of thescripture that I feel like we
automatically overlook.
We see the first part, loveothers.
But the Bible says, as you loveyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
So I can't love you beyond the love that I have for
myself.
Everyone says, if there's apossibility where I'm giving you
more than I'm giving myself,then perhaps what I am really
looking for is for you tovalidate that I'm worthy of that
that I'm giving to you, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
I had to go through the face where I had to
recognize I said, God, you aremy authenticator and validator.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
Well, yeah.
It's about going back to thesource.
And in the very beginning stagesof my healing journey, my focus
and my kind of dependency wasmore on CBT, DBT skills, you
know, and there's nothing wrongwith them.
SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
A lot of those you can tie biblically.
He broke that wall down for mebetween mental health and his
word.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
How have you been able to integrate the word of
God, your spiritual practices,with those that one would
consider holistic or practical?
SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
Yeah, I think they all go together and it's all
based on what the client needs,right?
And so it's clear in that I, youknow, I am a faith-led
clinician.
And so depending on the client,how long if they introduce
scripture, they will.
Some of them they say, Ispecifically came to you because
I saw that you are faith-based,that you incorporate this in.
(14:51):
So we get real.
Some of my clients, they havethe same way they got treatment
goals, they got spiritual goalsthat go along with them that
align with it.
And that could look likesometimes praying if it comes to
that in therapy, if that'sneeded, if they ask, or I'll ask
them, would would it be okay if,you know, and even scripture.
unknown (15:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
And so giving them things to reflect on, or
depending on what it is thatthey're going through, have you
talked to God about it?
Have you prayed about this?
Wow.
And helping them to develop thatlanguage to bring God in, invite
God into their healing, inviteGod into their goals.
You know, the Bible tells us tocommit our plans to the Lord and
He will establish them.
(15:32):
But helping them to see theconnections between where
they're struggling and whattheir word looks like.
I've had two clients in thislast year, they got baptized.
Like the support that I providedthem helped them.
And then I've had others likerecommit, find church homes.
So he took me through thatjourney personally, myself
(15:53):
first.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
Right.
I was gonna say, you know, wehave to bring to him our own
personal experiences for beforewe can even help somebody else,
right?
I feel like knowing andunderstanding the source of your
strength, of your help, knowingand understanding that the power
to be able to even walk out andapply these things comes from
God.
Um, you spoke to one of thetools being in some of your
(16:18):
practices, prayer.
And just for a moment, I want tospeak to that because as someone
who has experienced so manytypes of trauma, so many types
of abuse, and just so much overin my formative years, it did
affect me mentally.
And one of the areas in which Iwas was of deeply affected is I
(16:39):
struggle with dissociation.
And I remember the first timethat I began to come to the Lord
in prayer about them and beganto give that part of my mental
health struggle to God inprayer.
I felt myself come back tomyself.
I felt myself reconnect withmyself.
(17:00):
And I was like, oh God, I feelfor the first time in a long
time like I'm home.
And it was so sobering, but italso created an awareness of
this is where I need to be whenlife tries to deregulate me.
This is what I need to do whenthey, as they say, when I feel
like I'm about to crash out.
This is what I need to do whenI'm triggered.
(17:22):
Even if I don't understand whatthe trigger is in that moment, I
have a place, right?
That I can go.
I have a place where I belong,where I can kind of re-up, if
you will.
Like, you know, get my strength,get my focus, get my clarity
back.
And what I love about God is itdoesn't run out.
It's something that is readilyavailable to you all the time,
(17:43):
anytime, day or night.
And I just want to emphasizethat for somebody else who may
struggle with um periods ofdissociation or just
deregulation.
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
Prayer works, it works, and it is the Bible tells
us to abide in him, right?
And so we never have to leavehis presence.
We never have to leave hispresence.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
But it was learning that dependency on God because
that was one of myvulnerabilities too.
Like I didn't want to neednobody, you know what I mean?
Because growing up, I didn'thave anybody.
So you kind of becomeself-reliant, right?
But in the kingdom of God, whenyou're learning that he wants to
replace those negative copingmechanisms, you have to realize,
(18:25):
like, this is a whole nother wayto do things here.
You know what I mean?
It's a whole nother way for meto get my needs met here.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
And you're absolutely right.
So there's have you heard ofattachment theory before?
I have.
So what happens with attachment,we project our earthly
attachments onto God.
So if we have any of the threeinsecure attachments, so
there's, you know, secureattachment, anxious, avoidant,
and then we have thedisorganized attachment, right?
(18:54):
All of us experience some levelof anxiety and avoidance in our
relationship.
Okay.
And so the more anxiety youhave, the more avoidance you
have, that determines which ofthose categories you're in.
So if you're looking at that onthe table, so if you're down
here in this area, you gotsecure attachment, but you still
experience avoidance andanxiety.
(19:14):
But if you have higher avoidanceand lower anxiety, that puts you
in avoidance.
If you got higher anxiety andlower avoidance that puts you in
the anxious or like even preanxious preoccupied.
But if you got high anxiety andhigh avoidance that puts you in
disorganized said, you didn'thave anyone to rely on, which
would likely tell me you'reeither falling in the avoidant
(19:38):
or the disorganized.
But, you know, like we don'thave a choice about that.
Um, just because life is life.
Our parents had what they hadand what they didn't, and we
adapt.
Whatever that looks like withour caregivers.
So this is why I say that theonly codependent relationship
you ever want to be in is thatwith God.
(20:00):
That's the only codependentrelationship we want in our
life.
Like, I don't make moves withoutGod.
God will be eating it down.
What you want me to put on?
What am I putting on?
What you want me to do?
And it's it's actually likereally freeing, even though if
you imagine, can you imaginedoing that with another human
being asking them all of thesethings and how that could easily
(20:22):
be violated and turned intocontrol and manipulation?
Right.
And this is what happensliterally to people in abusive
relationships.
However, it's not like that atall with God.
When I tell you I'm a daddy'sgirl that I don't even be
worrying, no, that's right.
I don't even scramble.
I'll be like, Daddy, I don'tknow where the money's gonna
come from.
You got it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Come on.
But I know you're gonna makesome sort of way.
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Right.
And when I tell you random stuffstarts happening, it's a
beautiful thing.
So when I say I live a soft lifenow, I'll have the thoughts and
I'll just give them to him.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
You said a lot.
I like how you explained thatavoiding attachment.
Sometimes we want to mask it inindependence.
I'm an independent woman, youknow.
I'm always gonna do what I'mdoing.
And all the meanwhile, you'reburning out and you're getting
further and further away fromtrue peace, from you know, true
rest.
Um, my focus this year hasliterally been mastering rest.
(21:18):
Because one of the limitingbeliefs that I have struggled
with, I'm telling all mybusiness today.
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
One of the bonus all the time on my heart.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
One of the limiting beliefs that I had struggled
with was that rest was earned,not a birthright.
Okay.
Can I take you to the scripturesreal quick?
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
Yes, it's probably the same one I got in mind.
Go ahead.
In the beginning, God modeledthis for us in Genesis.
On the seventh day, he rested,God modeled rest.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
But that struggle, that that mindset or that
thought was that again, I had toearn rest because when I was
growing up, I never really sawmy caregivers resting.
They waited until they were likedog tired, they were like
exhausted and just, you know,crashed, you know.
And so I had developed thismindset that if I crossed
everything off my to-do list,met all my deliverables, did all
(22:10):
my goals, then I was worthy ofrest.
Then I had deserved it.
Yeah.
And the trouble with thatmindset is that you don't
necessarily have to work for,work for deserving something
that has already been given,allotted to you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
Like been modeled.
So as you're saying that, I waslike, this all goes back to
attachment.
It goes back to those formativeyears early on in experiencing
emotional safety.
Are your caregivers expressingdelight in you?
Do you feel safe with them?
Like there are so many differentthings.
And if you don't have that, itputs you in this state of having
(22:48):
to earn everything.
But we've been given languagelike, you know, nothing worth
having comes easy.
So we think everything gotta becrazy and chaos, and we won't
take the keys in when sometimesGod opened the door that no man
can shut, and we're choosing notto go through it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:05):
Right.
And because we it wasn't hardenough.
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
Yeah, because it wasn't hard enough.
Absolutely.
And the same thing withrelationships.
So there are these things that Ithink were meant for good that
our caregivers were trying toteach us to uh a healthy work
ethic, but it was unbalancedbecause they too worked too
hard.
And if there is one thing peoplehate to be labeled as is lazy,
right?
Right.
Especially in black and browncommunities, and then basically
(23:30):
in the black community in thediaspora, right, which was all
impacted by enslavement and somekind of capacity, that was one
of those beliefs that they putin our mind about rest having to
be earned, about rest then beinglazy.
And so then what happens is thatwe burn out.
And if you're burned out, youcannot, you're not operating on
(23:50):
purpose.
That means you are out ofalignment.
And if you are out of alignment,you have to come back in.
That means you need to adjustand recalibrate some things.
That means we're not doing itthe way God intended you to do.
And I get that we're doing whatwe've seen, but at what point do
we stop and allow ourselves toexamine it?
Right.
Right, is there a better way todo this versus doing it because
(24:14):
this is what's been happeningfor generation upon generation?
Exactly.
But you see, you feel, you know,right the havoc is wreaking on
you.
And your body, your mind, andyour mind, and your spirit.
And I think because so many ofour beliefs are so closely tied
to people that we care about, welove, and we respect, that we
(24:35):
feel like if I change thisbelief, it's somehow saying
something about them.
Or also it could lead toisolation from the only
community that I know.
Not acknowledging that thiscommunity is yes, it's
community, but it's not pouringinto you.
It doesn't align with God, withwhat God has for you, what He's
(24:56):
calling you to do.
So if you want to belong tobelong and sacrifice your
purpose, your calling, you'renot gonna have peace with that
ever.
Um, share this quote.
I'm gonna see if I can get itright.
From uh Dr.
Tony Roach Jr.
Let me see if I get it.
What you see is what you say.
What you say is what you sow.
What you sow is what you Nope,that ain't it.
(25:20):
What you see is what you say,what you say is what you do,
what you do is what you are,what you are is what you sow,
what you sow is what you reap,and what you reap is what you
deserve.
In that, right, it to me, I hearculture.
Yeah.
I hear culture.
What you see is what you say,right?
(25:40):
So what's around us, that's whatyou start to say, that's your
belief.
And it gets to our authority aswell as speaking, and why we
have to protect our gates,right?
Yeah, and thinking about whatGod modeled for us.
Notice that quote says, What yousee is what you say.
But God said it, then he saw it.
You see how you see how theworld will confuse us, will have
(26:00):
us flipping it around andthinking you gotta see it to
believe it.
No, we speak it, and then it is,and then we see it.
That's it, and that's what Godhas modeled.
And so the world, the logic thatpeople use that's safe, and we
need both, obviously.
Yeah, but it's like it goes awayfrom the foundation.
It's like we say it, then we seeit.
I don't have to see it, believeit.
(26:21):
I know that I speak it, I willsee it.
And if God allowed me to see it,and it's an alignment with his
will, then it's going to be.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Because we walk by faith and not by sight.
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
And then there's that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
I love what you said.
You said a few times that Godhas modeled things for us.
And sometimes we get so hung upon what was not modeled or what
we did not have and what we dolack, right?
That scarcity mindset that youspoke about in the very
beginning.
Sometimes we get caught up inthat and we forget that it has
(26:53):
been modeled.
It is here for ourunderstanding, for our
reception, and even for our owngrowth, which means we're gonna
have to depend on the HolySpirit to give us that
enlightenment, to give us thatrevelation.
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
And I also would encourage people to be like King
Solomon and ask God for wisdom,ask him for clarity because you
can feel in your spirit whenit's uneasy.
And then if you are feelingrushed, if you're feeling tense,
any of those things is notpeace, then you know what that
is.
God is not the author ofconfusion, God brings us peace.
(27:25):
So when you feel that that's anindicator to go pray and talk to
God.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Look, I always tell God, I'm one of your remedial
kids, and I don't care.
Um, tell me step by step.
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
That is the best, but that here's the thing.
God, you we gotta be able tocome to God like a child.
We do.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
Like a child, like a child.
One of my favorite scriptures isthe story of Gideon and how
pretty much he was looking forconfirmation in the book of
Judges, 636, for somebody whowants to follow this.
Yeah, he wanted to confirm thatGod would save Israel.
So he asked God um if therewould be dew on the ground, I
mean on the fleece only and noton the ground that would prove
(28:02):
that God was with him, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
Another exact idea.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
But I love the way God handled him in that story
because he asked him twice andGod accommodated him.
It shows me that he knows theareas in which we need to be
strengthened, he knows the areasin which our faith needs to be,
you know, brought to anotherlevel, and so that we now going
forward can come to the placewhere you did it before.
You will lead me step by step tothis next place, even in
(28:29):
transition.
Gideon was in transition, right?
And sometimes we get lost inthose areas of transitioning,
transitioning from brokenness towholeness when we get lost.
And sometimes we're like Gideon,where we're like, okay, well, if
you really here, if you reallytold me to do this podcast, if
you really told me to share mydrama, like, you know, give me
confirmation.
And I I just love thatparticular story where God he
(28:50):
handled him, you know, in a wayin which it affirmed him and it
gave him security.
You know what I mean?
I loved it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
I don't think there's anything wrong with
asking for confirmation becauseGod, He knows each of us, He
knows our hearts, right?
Like He knows what's in there,He also knows what we've lived
through and what we've beenthrough.
And that's another thing.
Um, you were asking how likeincorporating prayer with my
clients.
Yeah, I'm like, ask God to putit to you in a way that you can
(29:22):
understand it and it'sunmistakable that it's Him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
Yeah.
People always say, I'm gonnahear God talk to me.
What does it sound like for Godto speak to me?
So many times it wasn't audibly,it was annoying, it was a peace.
And so I've come to realize,like you said, when there's an
absence of peace, when there'san absence of clarity, when
there's an absence of thatsecurity, am I operating in my
own will, desires, flesh, or amI needing to wait until, even
(29:50):
perhaps like Gideon did, Godconfirms for me what I need in
order to move on?
Um, even in terms of counteringthose negative beliefs.
SPEAKER_02 (30:00):
I'm grabbing my Bible over here.
Like, you could just thumpthrough this thing and stop on a
random page.
Like, if you're really seekingsomething.
Like, I've done this before.
I'm just like, I'm gonna justopen the Bible and see where it
goes.
And if God didn't lead mesomewhere, so he put me over
here, my eyes first landed inProverbs 5.
I don't know.
(30:21):
Okay.
My son, attend unto my wisdomand how thine ear to my
understanding.
This is what we're talkingabout.
And that's literally youstarting to do it.
This is what he's doing, y'all.
This is what he does.
But you gotta tap in.
That's really and truly what itis.
You have to tap in.
SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
And ask God to help you with your unbelief.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:46):
And that's gonna help you restructure those
negative beliefs, those negativethoughts, because those
represent unbelief.
Because if you really believethat God is who he says he is,
then there's no way that thosethings that you're saying and
those thoughts you're allowingto prevail can exist if you say
he is who he says.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Right.
I thought it was interestingthat you were led to the book of
Proverbs because Proverbs speaksso much about wisdom, um, so
much about the practicality oflife and the and the and the the
difference between someone whooperates a wisdom and and you
know, someone who lives infolly.
And sometimes we be out hereliving in folly and don't even
realize it.
But it's written right there foryou.
(31:24):
We got an open book test withall the answers.
SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
Girl, that's the one.
But what I also love is likethis is literally our first time
talking.
I had no idea that you knewProverbs 5 like that.
You see how you broke that down?
Like, this is how God works.
He led me to that, and you'relike, oh, it talks about all of
these things.
This is how God works, y'all.
There are no coincidences, thereare only divine appointments.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
God's not all it is, and that's why these type of
conversations are needed.
Um, we know obviously we'remeeting the uh um this platform,
you know, for our podcast and tobe able to spread awareness, but
also to be able to reach peoplewho may not ever be able to have
this conversation with someoneelse.
So people are, I am a firmbeliever that there is people
(32:08):
who are looking for help, forcommunity, for um to be able to
say, I can identify with this.
And if you were able to comeout, if God was able to bring
you out, if God was able to healyou, to help you, then perhaps
he really isn't that respectiveof persons.
He can do it for me.
SPEAKER_02 (32:27):
Also, I heard you say something about uh earlier,
and you were like, God, you wantme to do the podcast?
You want me to share my trauma?
Like, and you're talking aboutobedience.
That's exactly how I am sittinghere with you today.
The content that you see is thathe did a very similar thing with
me.
The way he started my channel, Ihad to give my testimony first.
(32:48):
Wow.
Or obedience is somebody isattached to someone else's
breakthrough.
So when we don't do those thingsthat God has said, we are
slowing somebody else down inthe process.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
Come on.
Wow.
It's just like God to comealongside of us to confirm,
yeah, you you in the right path.
You're doing what I told you todo, right?
Um honestly, I wasn't lookingfor you.
You weren't looking for me.
You know, like one of the firstum things you said in your first
correspondence with me was, I'mglad I landed on your first,
your um for you page.
(33:20):
But one of my prayers is God,align me with people who will
confirm what you're doing in mylife, in their life.
Dr.
J.
Nicole, first of all, you doneturned me every way but loose
with this conversation, okay?
But I love, I love andappreciate the gift that you are
to the body of Christ, the giftthat you are to the mental
(33:41):
health world and how youintegrate them both.
We need it's so very muchneeded, especially in this day
and age.
SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
I'm thankful that God has chosen me as a vessel
and that I got into alignmentbecause if I didn't, this
conversation would have neverhappened.
You wouldn't have gotten theconversation to that.
It really, well, you would haveused someone else.
And what you don't know is thatone of my prayers has been for
spiritually aligned connection.
Yes.
And so for you to say, you knowwhat I mean?
(34:10):
You were asking God forspiritual alignment and
confirmation, like this is thisis what he does.
And I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:17):
What would your final thoughts that you would
like to leave with someone whosay, you know what?
I want to change the way Ithink, I want to change the way
I feel, I want to change the wayI even see and perceive myself.
Where would someone who wantedto make that change start?
SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
Uh, one, it would definitely start with awareness.
And I want you to think aboutthings and challenge it, like
who told me this?
Where did I learn this?
You know what I mean?
Because we have to hold and takeevery thought captive and
explore that, and that will helpus to be able to challenge that
(34:51):
and replace those negativebeliefs with positive things,
and those then become theevidence.
And people are looking forproof, like you will find the
proof because God is in there.
And so, and you have to believethat is true, and so a lot of
times it is our own thoughts andwhat we don't check that allow
(35:13):
this to prevail, and it turnsinto personality, and then it
turns into identity and is builton lies.
And I would encourage people to,if they don't know where to
start in that, is to spend theirtime with God, Lord, show me the
lies that I believe about myselfand replace them with your
truths.
(35:34):
Show me who you created me tobe.
He will do it.
And I know because I've prayedthese prayers, I've had these
conversations with God, right?
He will do it.
One more thing courage toreceive what it is you reveal to
me.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Wow.
So awareness, revelation, andcourage is needed to begin
transforming your thoughts,which will trans ultimately
transform your life.
Dr.
J.
Nicole, if someone is listeningto this and they're like,
listen, I got to get a hold ofher, I need some more of her
content.
I need to know if she's licensedin my state.
I need a therapist, I need acoach, a mentor, I just need
(36:15):
community.
Tell us where they can reachyou.
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
Yes.
So if you are in Maryland, uh,you can schedule some therapy.
So you can go to www.evolve ordrjnicole.com.
Um, I also offer coaching.
So if you are not in the stateof Maryland, I can help with
coaching.
I also do purpose coaching andhelping people to figure out uh
what their purpose is and usingmy I am method to help you with
(36:41):
that.
Um, yeah, see where you are sothat you can grow closer and
deeper in that relationship withGod and um be operating a
purpose.
You can catch me on TikTok andum Instagram with evolve at
evolva drjnicole.
The podcast page is risingtharber Dr.
J Nicole on Instagram, andfinally you can catch my podcast
(37:06):
that's on YouTube, all the majorstreaming platforms, but YouTube
is where you can actually seethe video.
Um, but yeah, just you can checkme out in those ways.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Awesome.
Again, thank you so much foryour contribution, for your
wisdom, for your insight, uh,for your knowledge, and for your
authenticity, you know, beingreal, applying your own life
experiences in order to be ableto help other people.
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
All right, guys, thanks so much for tuning in to
today's episode.
Remember, now thanks be unto Godwho always causes us to triumph.
I'll see you next time.
Bye.
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