July 3, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of Trivia Tangents, we’re chalking up and roping in my friend Hannah, boulderer and belay queen, for a climb up the trivia wall. We debate bouldering vs. top-roping, GRIGRI vs. ATC, and dive into the retro rubber origins of climbing shoes. From the lingo of dynos, slabs, and spicy cruxes to what compels someone to attempt a Free Solo, we dig into what makes rock climbing such a wild mental and physical ride. Hannah also shares her scariest outdoor climbing story (spoiler: it involves pigeons).
We’ve got pro climber shoutouts, trivia to fuel your next trivia night, and plenty of beta to go around. Tighten your harness and climb on!
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Trivia Tangents
02:48 The Birth of the Climbing Shoe
12:06 Cracking the Route Setting Lingo
16:59 Pigeon Phobia and Bird Encounters
19:39 Mental Strategies for Climbing Cruxes
21:21 Top Rope vs. Bouldering: Climbing Preferences
26:30 The Risks of Free Soloing
31:33 Famous Climbers and Their Feats
34:33 Alex Honnold Needs Therapy
36:21 Free Solo Documentary Review
40:07 The Psychology Behind Climbing Decisions
43:09 Fear and Anxiety in Climbing
45:27 Inspiration and Role Models in Climbing
48:04 Wrap-Up and Future Topics
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Welcome to Trivia Tangents, the podcast where we turn everyday
passions into surprising trivia deep dives.
I'm your host, Lena, and each week I quiz a friend on
something they know way too muchabout, turning everyday passions
into trivia gold. We all know that on trivia
night, the bigger the team, the better you'll play.
So that's why I bring the team together here on Trivia
(00:33):
Tangents. Today's guest is Hannah, who's
here to talk all about rock climbing.
So get ready for some fun facts you'll definitely want for your
next trivia night. Hi, Hannah, welcome to the pod.
That statement about quizzing friends on something they know
way too much about is outrageousbecause I'm about to embarrass
myself with my lack of knowledgeabout rock climbing trivia, Nico
(00:57):
told me to study. Oh my God.
It's three questions, three simple multiple choice.
I'm sure you're going to ace it,and if you don't, that's OK.
That just means you have to comeback on the podcast and ace
something else. I'll study next time.
To give a little introduction ofHannah, she's one of my funniest
friends. She is an avid rock climber and
(01:19):
skier. She's one of my more outdoorsy
friends and we've had a lot of fun together on camping and ski
trips and kind of remembering how we met, like, I don't know,
three years ago. We originally met probably in
college, like once in senior year at a mutual friend's
(01:39):
birthday at the time. But we definitely became closer
after college since we both lived in the Peninsula and
started rock climbing together at Movement.
Am I remembering all that correctly?
You are and I very much remembermeeting you in college because
we played that game most likely to OK do and we didn't know.
Yes, that's a core memory for mebecause I remember my cards were
(02:03):
so funny that I was assigned like most likely to blah, blah,
blah. I don't remember what they are.
I have a picture somewhere, but it was a fun time.
It was. Kind of funny playing that game
with people you don't know because you're just, yeah,
guessing who you think they are based on 5 minutes of
interaction. Yeah, it's so funny, but a great
way to make friends. So maybe I need to have that
(02:23):
game. All right, so today we are
discussing 3 different sections.The birth of the climbing shoe,
cracking, the route setting lingo and famous climbers and
free solo feats. Shall we jump into question one?
Shit, OK, go for it. I'll do my very best.
(02:48):
Section 1. The birth of the climbing shoe.
Trivia question one. Which brand is considered to
have made the first purpose built rock climbing shoe, a Las
Portiva B-510-C Boreal or Deb the 1st all-purpose?
(03:09):
Climbing. Shoe, yes.
I'm gonna go with Las Portiva. That's a really, really, really
good guess, and that's why I included it, because I wanted to
trip you up and you're wrong. Shit.
What is it that's OK? The answer is EB and it stands
for Edmund Bordano in. Fact.
Heard of that? I know.
Let me tell you a little bit more about this.
Are you ready? Go for it.
(03:30):
OK, so here's a little mini deepdive on the answer of this
question, which is actually really interesting.
So in the 1930s and 40s, climbers were really heavy
boots. But things changed between 1930
and 1947 when someone named Pierre Alain a French alpinist.
(03:51):
Alpinist. Yes, a French alpinist started
developing lighter footwear withbetter rubber soles.
His first creation involved his gym sneakers, and he stuck extra
rubber to reinforce the sides. He then teamed up with a local
Shoemaker and created the first shoe specifically designed for
(04:12):
rock climbing, called the PA Boot PA As in his initials, the
duo only sold their shoes to a handful of local climbing
enthusiasts. And here's where the guy EB gets
in the picture. So in 1950, Pierre Elaine's
business was bought by Edmund Bordano EB.
He was an expert Shoemaker and he kept manufacturing the
(04:36):
climbing shoe, but now with his initials EB on a round piece of
leather on the ankle. So his little company logo and
these shoes transformed the sport, allowing climbers to
confidently tackle steeper, moretechnical routes.
The success of EB paved the way for modern brands like Las
Furtiva 510 and Scarpa. So I know that answer or the
(04:58):
question was like a little bit tricky because I it was framed
as in what brand? I guess if you were to say ask
like who made the first climbingshoe, it would probably be
Pierre Elaine. But I wanted to talk about the
brands. So there you go.
Well, and as you're talking, I looked at whether he was dead or
not because there's another climber with like a French
(05:19):
climber with a similar name who had died super young climbing.
And I don't know the name now, but he died at 96.
So we're good. Pierre Elaine lived a long life.
1930s was almost 100 years ago, so most likely he's dead.
Yeah, he's dead now, Yeah. Along with a lot of other rock
(05:40):
climbers, which is really sad, but we can get into that later.
So, Hannah, back to this sectionhere, all about climbing shoes.
Do you remember your first pair of climbing shoes ever, ever,
Ever. It wasn't that long ago, so I'm
pretty sure I had. Was it Las Portiva?
(06:01):
It might have been like the really, really flat kind that
isn't a good climbing shoe but is like the cheapest shoe
because it doesn't buck up your whole foot.
So many of the climbing shoes are like this.
After dancing my whole life, yeah, I'm not about to fuck with
that again. Like it's just not happening.
(06:21):
It's not fun anymore when your shoes like that.
Like what in the world? You're not having fun.
Yeah, every time I climb I have to take off my shoes in between
each route basically just because it's so uncomfortable
and and my shoes are pretty simple.
They're just basically flat likeyou're first shoes too.
(06:41):
But still they're pretty uncomfortable to wear.
They're not meant for walking. No, I mean no.
Climbing shoes are meant for walking.
You wear like different shoes onthe approach to an outdoor
climb. You would never wear your
climbing shoe. But I wear more aggressive ones
now. But they're not nearly as
aggressive as like the the point.
Some of them are literally like a little rainbow.
(07:04):
The arch of the shoe. Dude, yeah, it's.
Outrageous. Outrageous.
In dancing, did you ever have your teacher or coach like sit
on your toes while you're sitting in a Pike and have them
like get your toes to be really aggressively pointed into a
rainbow shape? I mean, not that specifically, I
didn't have somebody sit their ass down on my foot, no.
(07:24):
Is that a normal experience? Oh OK.
I was literally just talking to Elizabeth in the last episode
about our experience in gymnastics.
And yes, that's a normal thing for gymnastics.
What the fuck? No, I don't feel like that ever
happened to me in dance, but. Probably dance is a healthier
culture. I mean, it's not known for that,
(07:47):
yeah. OK, well, anyway, back to the
shoe. I literally picked mine out of a
used bucket at the Rochnasium, Jim and Davis.
So mine are very casual. Yeah.
And you still have the same ones.
Yeah, I still have the same ones.
They're literally falling apart.But also I don't climb as much
as you do. Yeah, fair enough.
(08:07):
So like the rubber gets hard or something over time, can't
really use the rubber, doesn't last forever.
You can't buy climbing shoes ears in advance and just keep
them. Oh, I didn't know that, huh?
Yeah, the rubber like you'd wantto.
I mean, people will still use itand it's fine, but theoretically
you want fresh rubber on your shoes.
Damn, maybe that's why I'm not very good.
(08:30):
Cuz your shoes are how many years old now?
So old, so old. And he knows how many years they
were used before I picked them out of a bucket.
Yeah, your client shoes are at least a decade old.
They're not. They're not great.
Well, OK, maybe after this episode I'm going to know more
about shoes and I'll be able to pick out a new pair that's that
(08:53):
works for me. I'll go with you.
OK, perfect. So you were saying you have more
aggressive shoes now. I guess that means yes, you've
tried in stiff soled shoes versus more like sensitive soft
sold shoes. You've had both.
Yeah. I would say the main difference
is not how soft the rubber is, but it's, I mean there are
(09:16):
differences in rubber quality, but it's how flat the shoe is
versus. How arched got it?
So like. The more aggressive shoes have a
much more aggressive arch on theshoe.
Got it. Yeah, it helps you get your.
Weight onto your toes when you're climbing.
That makes sense. So when you choose your shoes,
are you looking for comfort? Are you looking for performance?
(09:36):
And like, how many climbing shoes do you have today?
I only have two that are in active use, but I keep all my
old shoes because I tell myself that I'm going to get them all
resold and because you have to pay to mail them in.
I've been gathering all of my old climbing shoes with holes
and stuff in the rubber thinkingthat one day I'll mail them in
and get new rubber on them, which I'll never do.
(09:57):
But I have a lot of climbing shoes because I'm saving them to
fix them. That and I'll never fix them.
I forgot what your original question was.
How aggressive of a shoe I like.How do you choose your climbing
shoes? Is it comfort?
Is it performance? Is it a little bit of both?
It's a little. Bit of both that I was matching
(10:20):
your tone. I love it for comfort more than
most people. At this point I should be
looking for more aggressive shoes and be worried about
performance. Except that I'm just not going
to do that to my feet. Not about it.
Yeah, I love. This.
It's not worth it. It's not fun.
Yeah, no, I'm totally with you there.
(10:40):
Not fun. OK, for those of you guys
listening who maybe aren't as familiar with rock climbing, the
kind of shoe you choose really helps you climb basically like
depending on what different kinds of routes, what different
kinds of climbing moves you're doing, like indoor versus
outdoor, Right, Hannah? So like it.
You really. Yeah.
It's like a. Huge decision what kind of shoe
(11:02):
you have and that's why multipleand that's why climbers usually
have like multiple different pairs of shoes.
Yeah, although I'd say it only matters once you're not brand
new, like when you're brand new to climbing for your first at
least six months, but but probably a year.
It doesn't fucking matter what shoe you wear.
You're just trying to like buildarm strength, use your core and
(11:24):
keep your arms straight. And it like the rubber on your
shoe is not your limiting factor.
And then it's only after you're right.
Like the rental shoes, I will say fucking suck.
They're like useless. But like any climbing shoe that
you can buy at a store is for your first year is not what's
(11:44):
limiting you. Good to know after that.
Yeah. So let's get into Section 2,
kind of discussing the more advanced sort of climbing or
different kinds of moves that you can do within climbing.
(12:06):
Section 2. Cracking the route setting
lingo. Are you ready for trivia?
Question 2. I think I'm ready for this one.
I feel good about this one. I think you're going to get it.
OK, uh. Oh, trivia question 2.
What's the term for a dynamic jump or leap move in a climbing
route? A mantle B Gaston, C Dino or D
(12:30):
smear? Yeah, Dino.
Good job. Wow, that was quick.
And then do you know what the other ones are?
Mantle, Gaston Smear. I do, except I was only half
listening because I knew the answer was Dino before you went
through the options. But those are like Dino almost
(12:51):
is like so obvious because that's the name for a dynamic
movement. There's a reason of Dino, yes.
So, well, I wanted to make sure you got at least one question
right, so. Thank you, I appreciate it.
This is going to be really embarrassing if I got nothing.
So just before getting into the deep dive, let's just quickly
explain explain the other options.
(13:13):
So I had to look these up. In all transparency, I know I'm
climber, but not like I'm not that good.
OK, so mantle is when you push down on a hold and bring your
feet up to meet your hands, right?
Yeah, it's almost like. Yeah, yeah.
Like push push. Down on it.
Yeah, OK. And then smear is using the
(13:36):
friction of your shoe against a surface when there aren't
defined holds, right? Yeah.
So it's yeah ass. It sucks.
Yeah, cuz like you could slip and it's really scary.
Yeah, cheese great. Down the wall, that's what I
call it. God, that's envisioning.
That's horrible. No it.
(13:56):
Fucking sucks. And then Gaston, which is
basically pushing outwards on a hold with the palm facing
inwards, similar to like prying open a door.
Is that just when you like? I feel like I should know that
term. Yeah, I think that's all it is.
It's just like the tension. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
(14:19):
So as you guys can see, route setting has its very own special
language lingo jargon, and dyno is one of the most exciting
moves in a climber's vocabulary.According to the Internet, Dyno
DYNO is short for a dynamic move, like our expert Hannah
(14:39):
said, and it basically requires A climber to jump or lunge to
the next hold, and sometimes both hands and feet can come off
the wall. And route setters use this move
to create high energy, thrillingsections of a climb.
Other jargon includes slab for low angle climbs, overhang for
(15:02):
steep routes, and then crux for the hardest part of the route.
Professional setters carefully choose these elements to create
a balanced, challenging, and funexperience.
So Hannah, I would love to pick your brain a little bit more
about these different kinds of moves here.
Do you think you would prefer a static move or a more dynamic
(15:22):
move when you climb? That is the easiest question
I've ever answered in my entire life.
Static. Nobody who has gone to therapy
likes dynos. Oh my God.
OK so would you say that Dinos are thrilling and high energy or
scary and terrifying? Bow everything for me, for me.
(15:45):
It's just not gonna happen. I love that.
So I guess in yeah, in my opinion, same.
I like static. My favorite move I think is
called an arm bar. So it's like when your route is
kind of along near the corner ofa wall, like an edge or corner,
(16:06):
and you kind of have to use yourarm to wrap around the wall and
there's no hold there. You kind of just have to like
wrap around. I don't know if this is an
official move, but I like when that happens.
What about you? What's your favorite move?
I. Don't know if I have a favorite
move. I'm a good mantle girly because
it's low strength. It's not like as hard in my
(16:29):
opinion to like get my leg up because I used to dance.
So flexibility is not the issue.And so it's a lot easier to just
like hold yourself up like that as opposed to pulling yourself
up from a hold. 100% yeah. Mantle, good way to go.
OK cool. So, in your past climbing
experience, do you have a most memorable or scariest move that
(16:52):
you've tried in the past? I don't think I've like a
scariest move, but like I, I could tell you the scariest
experience I've ever had climbing.
And it's like, not about the climbing, but it's about the
features of being outdoors. So wait, this is kind of perfect
because I have my bird here. I'll show you a lot of birds.
(17:12):
However, I hate pigeons and I'm afraid of pigeons, and so one
time I went climbing outdoors atMount Diablo and there was a
little cave in between two climbs, and I'm halfway up this
wall and I start hearing flapping in this cave.
I'm in tears. We got there super early because
(17:33):
there's like one climb and so a bunch of people are waiting to
get on after me. So there's a crowd of people
watching me at this point and I am crying over pigeons,
screaming to be let down off this climb.
I think there's a video of it somewhere.
And so most of my like, scary climbing experiences don't
really have a whole lot to do with climbing because I freak
(17:55):
myself out over some feature that has nothing to do with the
actual climb. Pigeons scare the shit out of
me. So that's my most scary
experience climbing. Oh my God, that was so
unexpected. Pigeons.
Yeah, pigeons. That was a couple years ago.
I hate. What is it?
But why? What is it about pigeons?
(18:16):
You have a bird. They're dirty sewer rat birds.
OK. They're St. birds.
What about the ones that have like pretty green purpley necks?
They're all disgusting. They're like, I imagine them
rummaging through people's food and trash that they left on the
ground and hanging out around the sewers on the street.
(18:38):
They're, yeah. Rat birds, yeah.
Basically, and I didn't want onenear me.
And I think they're really comfortable around people.
And so this whole time on this climb, I am in front of this
cave full of what sounds like 20fucking pigeons that could fly
out at me at any second and touch me with their dirty
rappered wings. Oh my God, I wonder if birds can
(19:01):
get rabies, because that would make it even more terrifying.
What are your thoughts on Ravensthen?
Because here in San Francisco wehave a lot of Ravens.
Or are they crows? They're big black birds, and
they're always the ones rummaging through the trash.
I haven't thought about Ravens as much or crows, whatever is
there in San Francisco. I just don't see them as often.
Pigeons are everywhere. OK, I feel like, yeah, pigeons
(19:22):
is like mostly an Oakland thing or like a downtown.
And then Ravens are like any more, I don't know, nature.
They like to hang on the nature.But anyway, that was a tangent.
Welcome to trivia tangents. That's what we do here.
So getting back on track about climbing moves, how do you
(19:44):
mentally approach the crux of a climb?
Do you have any tricks or mindset hacks?
Or do you just full send it? No thoughts.
That's a really good question because there is probably a
right answer, which would be to plan it out before you get
there. Like you're on the ground.
Have you ever seen somebody standing on the ground just
like? Yeah, I think.
It's doing nothing, talking to nobody and just doing arm
(20:06):
movements. They're planning out what
they're going to do. Yeah, Christian says it's
getting beta. Basically like just like
inhaling information from the wall, the wall is seeing.
It, that is a funny way to put inhaling information.
No, it's just like thinking about OK, before you get there.
I can only do that move if my right hand is on that hold,
(20:28):
which is what would allow me to use my left hand for that one
that's way off to the left. So you kind of have to plan it
out because it's really hard like energy wise to have to
readjust on the wall once you'realready there.
And so you kind of have to, and then people are really serious
about getting something on the first attempt.
And so I don't really care aboutthat.
Just if I get it, I get it and that's great and I'll keep
(20:49):
trying. I don't really care.
But some people are really serious about like first try, I
did it and that's it. Oh my gosh, Those people are
very competitive. So you're saying you don't think
about it, you just go in, you just do it, Yeah.
Sometimes I look at it, especially if it's at the very
top of the wall for bouldering. I don't love falling from the
very top, so if the hardest partis at the very top, I want to
(21:11):
plan it out in advance. But if it's at the bottom,
there's no chance that I've planned it out in advance.
Yeah, you pick up a good point, bouldering versus top rope.
So when I'm rock climbing, I only do top rope and I usually
like to have my partner goes first, so then I can like watch
them and see what kind of route they take, what rocks or holds
(21:32):
they grab onto and which ones they skip.
Do you like to go first or second when you're doing top
rope? I think that's assuming that
we're doing the same climbs. It's pretty likely that I'm
climbing when we roping if we'reindoors.
Yeah. Like that assumes that I'm doing
this all the same routes as the person I'm climbing with.
Wait. Oh OK, cuz when we rock climb
(21:54):
together we always kind of, you know, did the same one.
Or at least that's how I do it. Well, some, but you really don't
have to for top rope or for least climbing any rope Climbing
actually, unless it's outdoors where it takes a whole lot of
effort to set up an anchor at the very top.
Yeah, like you kind of have to commit to all doing the same
route there because it's just, it's going to take an hour to
(22:16):
set it up on a different route. But indoors, there's no reason
you have to be doing the same route as somebody else.
So theoretically, yes, I like towatch somebody else do one
first. However, if they send it really
smoothly, then it's way too muchpressure for me to do that same
route right after. So it's a mixed bag.
(22:37):
And there's also something aboutthe puzzle solving aspect of
climbing where you don't really want to watch exactly how
somebody else does it because itstifles your own problem solving
and creativity. That makes sense.
That makes sense. Yeah.
I don't know. I guess I just like to have
someone figure it out for me andI can just copy them.
(22:58):
OK, so you're here for the exercise and not for the puzzle
solving? Yeah, I guess not.
I'm like, OK, if I want to puzzle solve, I can.
I have my Rubik's Cube right here.
Always so. Do you really?
Yes, I I know how to solve a Rubik's Cube.
I have it on my desk at all times.
I'll show you. Damn girl.
Here it is. And it is solved right now.
(23:21):
I can confirm for viewers that Lena has solved her Rubik's
Cube. Thank you so much.
Yeah, you know what, maybe I need to do an episode on that,
but I would just be interviewingmyself.
One more thing about like the top rope, like you said, you're
like, oh, you can, anyone can just do whatever route they
want. I guess that proves I'm really
(23:42):
lazy because I'm like, OK, you know, if the gym is really busy
and we've staked out this one route, you know, people like tap
on your shoulder, like, hey, canI go next when you're done?
And like if your partner wants to do it, it's like, OK, this is
your chance to do it. And then also doing the the not
loop de loop thingy takes a lot of effort for me.
(24:02):
So I'm like, OK, if I do it, we're we're both doing the same
one, right? I know they have to like I have
to untie and they have to do it,but I don't know.
Interesting, how fair enough we think about that differently.
Yeah, I do not think of that as a high effort thing to make the
finger 8 and retie it because yeah, in a gym it's usually it
(24:22):
stays tied most of the time and you don't even have to retie it
at a new climb. Yeah, honestly, wait, you might
be right. And then, Oh my gosh, that
brings up another point. Like Grigri versus just like
ATC. ATC, what's your opinion?
I mean, I would prefer to have more safety features than not
so. You.
(24:44):
Agree, do the auto lock thing. Like, theoretically I'm not
gonna do it, but theoretically Icould really fuck up and not be
catching my climbing partner. They fall.
Gregory automatically locks. Yeah, an.
ATC like you really could fuck up.
I know, I know. So those are just basically
devices that are attached to theBlair's harness, and that kind
(25:09):
is what connects the Blair to the rope, which is really
important because the rope is then connected to the climber.
So if they fall, there really needs to be that sort of system
that makes sure that it catches them if they fall.
So Gregory versus ATC, maybe we can have that as a poll question
(25:30):
and see who prefers which and which one wins?
Anyone who says ATC needs therapy, I will confidently say
that I'll just like. There's a few things throughout
this conversation where I'll be like if you like dynos, see a
therapist. If you use an ATC, see a
therapist. Period.
That's it. I love that everyone needs
(25:52):
therapy and but yeah, if you do like those things, you
especially need therapy and you can reach out to Hannah who
recently got her or finish is finishing up her school.
Don't reach out to me. You're beyond saving if you do,
Dinos. I'm just kidding.
(26:15):
So yeah, those people who do those moves definitely have
something going on in their in their brains.
So that kind of is a great segueinto our third section, which is
about famous climbers and free solo feats.
Alex Honnold needs therapy. OK, let's see if you get
(26:44):
question 3 right. Are you ready?
Who famously completed the firstfree solo ascent of El Capitan's
Free Rider route in Yosemite. What a good.
Segue, what a great segue. I'm just going to let you answer
that and not even read the multiple choice.
Go ahead, Tommy Caldwell, I'm just.
(27:05):
Kidding. I know wait because he was one
of the multiple choice people. My boy Alex once that there's
like a viral video of him blasting Fetty Wap from a
speaker as he free solos El Cap.Have you seen that?
That's iconic. I haven't seen that.
Please, please send it to me because I want to put it on the
(27:26):
Instagram. Yeah, I'll send.
That so it's pretty funny and he's just like unbothered he.
Needs. He needs therapy.
I wonder if he already is in therapy and what his therapist
thinks. OK.
My genuine question as somebody who works in mental health is if
(27:49):
somebody tells you that they plan to free solo a client
that's going to take multiple hours, something like El Cap
where if you fall you're dead, is that considered a risk to
self Which would spark mandated reporting requirements on the
part of the therapist? Like does a therapist if told by
(28:09):
their client that they're going to go free solo.
Something ginormous? Yeah.
Will lead to their death with one tiny slip up.
Do they have to call the police?That's a great question.
I wonder that. I mean, OK, let's say Hannah, if
you when, when you like have your license and everything, if
(28:29):
you have a a client who says that to you, are you going to go
to the police? I mean, that's probably not.
Probably not because it's not anintent to commit suicide.
You're not actually intending tohurt yourself.
Yeah, it's like, obviously they want to make it.
(28:49):
They want to make it to the top.Yeah, like there's no, like,
intent to harm yourself, but like, people do risky things all
the time that could result in their death, like driving a car.
There's so many things that would do that can be dangerous.
So I don't know, maybe that's not my place, but interesting,
interesting. El Cap seems like another level
(29:10):
of like risk. Yeah.
So yeah, in the multiple choice question, I had Alex Honnold,
which is the answer. I also had Tommy Caldwell, Chris
Sharma and Lynn Hill. Are you familiar with these
people? All except Lynn Hill.
OK. Chris Sharma has a climbing
show. Have you seen that?
(29:31):
No, he's, Oh my, he looks fucking weird in it.
He's a freak. Wait, what?
He's just like filming himself climbing well.
No, he has like a bunch of climbing contestants compete in
all these different types of climbing, bouldering, deep water
soloing. So he's like a, he's like.
All sorts of things. Yeah.
He's the host alongside the guy,the actor who plays Aquaman.
(29:56):
Wait, oh, what's his name? Jason.
Jason. Jason.
Momoa, Jason. Momoa, Jason Momoa show What
else do I watch? I think so funny made one
season. Oh my God this sounds.
I love Jason Momoa because I love him also.
(30:21):
Like, there's totally a pro NFL player who looks like Jason
Momoa. And yeah.
And then just like the whole like Amber Heard, Johnny Depp
trial that went down like Jason Momoa, like.
Have to do with that. No, because he was an Aquaman
and she played like Aqua Woman or whatever.
Oh, right. Yeah, OK.
(30:42):
So I was like very in tune with Jason Momoa like 2 years ago.
OK, that means I definitely needto watch this show.
Do you remember the name of it? Might have been called the
climb. OK, they weren't that.
Creative. Chris Sharma and Jason Momoa.
Chris Sharma just comes off likea cocky motherfucker on that
(31:05):
show. And maybe he has the right to
be, but he just like did not seem some like somebody who I
wanted to hang out with. He seemed insufferable.
Like, gosh, I was like, I don't want to hang out.
Oh my God, yeah. Honestly, some people who climb
can be just, like, so fucking into it and, like, so cocky.
It's, like, annoying. But yeah, you're right.
(31:26):
Yeah. Jason Momoa and Chris Sharma
have a show called The Climb. You can find it on HBO Max.
Yep, there you go. The other folks on that list,
cuz I, you know, we're talking about Alex Honnold, but I want
to make sure these other people get a quick shout out.
Tommy Caldwell, 46 year old American rock climber.
He's still alive. Yay.
He's from Colorado. And he is known for the first
(31:48):
free ascent of several major routes on El Capitan in
Yosemite, but he's not the firstperson to make it.
That was Alex Honnold. Is that right?
Yeah. OK.
Cool. And then yes, we mentioned Chris
Sharma. He is also still alive.
He's from Santa Cruz. Pretty cool.
He's 44 years old and he has a show with Jason Momoa.
(32:09):
Very cool. And then lastly we have Lynn
Hill. She's a 64 year old woman.
She's still alive, famous American rock climber from
Michigan. And she has a book called
Climbing Free, which makes me think she's practiced in the art
of free solo, so that's pretty cool.
She's 64 years old, yeah. Holy sport.
(32:32):
I feel like I know who you're talking about now that you've
described her. Yeah, Yeah.
Chris Sharma set a lot of the routes at Castle Rock, which is
like a big climbing area in Santa Cruz.
No way. How cool.
He might have been like first descent or he I don't know the
details. I I don't know if he bolted the
routes or if he was just 1st to send or if I don't know.
(32:53):
Yeah, like designed it maybe. That's a cool.
That's a cool fact. Have you climbed there?
I have. It's better known for
bouldering. There's better bouldering than
there is rope climbing. Yeah.
Well, then that good. Good.
That brings like a good point, which I haven't asked you yet.
I think I know the answer. Do you prefer Bolt?
Wait, where did you talk about this?
You prefer top rope? Yeah.
I mean theoretically, like lead climbing or top rope, but I
(33:18):
don't know, it depends on the day.
Bouldering is so much easier to just like walk up alone and just
go boulder, which I like. There's low effort, don't have
to coordinate with other humans.I just go and then I leave and I
don't have to put on a harness. Or talk to people.
That's right. True.
Yeah. Hannah just likes low human
(33:38):
interaction. Got it.
Same. Yeah, which if you knew me, you
would understand why that works better for me.
So. Oh.
My God. And then for the listeners who
don't know, lead climbing is basically when the rope is not
connected to the wall or to start with, but you have to
continuously clip it into the carabiners as you're going up.
(34:01):
Is that right? Yeah, look at you go.
Yeah, I'm like why? Why do I?
Why am I even interviewing Hannah?
I know all about. I know you're a pro.
Yeah. You like?
Bring the Rover. With you and you can fall much
bigger distances. Yeah, and it's, it's really
scary and kind of funny to see people fall because then their
(34:21):
partner on the ground flies up in the air, you know, because of
physics. So.
Well, yeah, that is if you're belayer's lighter than you.
Yeah, yeah. OK, so let's get back on track.
Let's share a little bit more about Alex Honnold, our main man
who free soloed El Capitan and who definitely needs therapy.
(34:44):
So Alex Honnold stunned the world in 2017 when he became the
first person to climb the 3000 foot Free Rider route in El
Capitan, which is in Yosemite. He did this without ropes or
protection, known as free soloing.
This is captured in the documentary Free Solo, and his
(35:05):
ascent is seen as one of the greatest feats in climbing
history. Free soloing is incredibly risky
but represents the ultimate testof mental fortitude and
precision. Most climbers stick with ropes
and protection for good reason, but Honnold's achievement has
inspired a lot of awe and debatein the climbing community.
(35:27):
So I'm assuming you have seen Free Solo.
What are your thoughts in the documentary?
I mean, he's such an interestingperson because if you think
about it, there's something really meditative about him
doing that. In reality, his skill set is
much higher than El Cap, right? Like to him, that's a warm up
route. Like he's chilling on it.
(35:49):
But the thing that gets me is not about like his ability to do
that, which we all know he can, but it's committing to nothing
going wrong. And that's not all in your
control, right? Like you can tweak your finger a
little bit, a Little Rock could fall off the wall, like your
hand flips off. So many unexpected things could
(36:10):
happen. Like you could cross a cave full
of pigeons. That's such a good point
actually. I don't think there's caves on
that road, but. Well, yeah, but that's
interesting. He's yeah.
That's crazy to think that like El Cap is just a probably a warm
up route to him. I remember watching the
(36:31):
documentary. I've seen it twice now because
it was so interesting to me. I just remember his wife or his
girlfriend at the time being so scared.
And I just felt for her so hard because I'm like, Oh my God, as
a girlfriend, like think about your partner doing that.
That's terrifying. They might not come home but
like you want to support their hopes and dreams but you also
(36:55):
want them to be alive and like better yet.
What if? It it in the documentary, it
showed a bunch of examples of like previous free solo athletes
and some of them were fathers, some of them were mothers.
And like they died and their kids were left behind.
And that's just so incredibly sad to me.
So that's kind of the part that stuck out the most.
(37:15):
And I was like, I look to Christian and I'm like, you have
to promise me right now, you're never ever, ever, ever, ever
free soloing ever. So I don't have to be worried
about that. He doesn't.
Strike me as somebody who would want to be free soloing anyways.
Yeah, it's just a free disaster.Yeah, assuming you've never free
soloed, right? Not really, no.
(37:36):
OK, not really. OK.
There's like the have you heard of the flat?
Irons in Colorado No. It's in Boulder, but there's
three flat irons and I can't remember whether it might be
like the second flat iron. I always forget which one.
But like technically there's no like I did it without a rope
with Nico and with his friend who lives there.
(37:57):
And it took, it took a long time.
Took a long time because I was going really slowly in case
something happened. But it is like technically on a
rock face, but it's kind of morelike a scramble.
Like it's really easy climbing. I did it in climbing shoes, but
Nico and his friend did it in like normal shoes.
Oh shit. OK.
(38:18):
How long were you up there? Like without a rope?
Like 2 minutes. Two hours.
Yeah, I mean, I did it pretty fucking slowly.
But Nico's friend who we went with at one point I think held
the record for fastest time fromparking lot to the base of the
climb and all the way back down because he would like park his
car in the parking lot, run to the start of the climb.
(38:42):
He basically ran up it because it's an easy climb, and then
would come back down, run back to his car and have like a
record time for how fast he doesit.
And I think his time was half anhour and I spent two hours like
car whole loop back to the car and it took me two hours just on
(39:04):
the actual climb and like 30 minute hike up.
Oh my God, I said. Probably because you're being
careful. I was being careful.
And this friend who does it all the time, I don't know that it
this actually would have happened, but he was climbing
behind me with the intention of if I slipped and fell, he could
(39:27):
smush his body into the wall andtrap me between him and the wall
so that I wouldn't keep falling.That was the reasoning for like
the order of our climbing. I don't know that that actually
would have been possible, but heseemed really confident that he
could catch me if I fell. But I was just like, should not
play that game. I'm going to try not to fall.
(39:48):
Yeah, Well, it's a. Really good friend.
Wow, it's funny that he did not know Nico.
So like they've not used to it Iguess.
Some way more than Nico. That friend has done it like 50
plus times at least. Nico has done it never or once,
I don't know. Yeah, so actually that does make
sense. I'm so surprised you did that,
(40:10):
Hannah. So what drives a person to free
solo? What goes on in your crazy brain
to make you want to? Yeah, the need.
For therapy, yeah, The need for therapy is what drives.
The mentally, the mentally ill. People no.
What actually happened though was I wasn't committed to doing
it. Before we went on this trip to
Colorado, we were talking about doing this, but then the day
(40:33):
before, the decision was we're going to hike up to the base of
this climb. And depending on my anxiety
levels, like in the moment, I amdeciding whether or not I do
this because if I'm anxious, we're just turning around and
not doing it. I felt pretty calm when we got
to the base of the climb. So I was like, I can do this if
I'm calm. OK.
(40:53):
The thing about Alex Honnold free soloing El Cap or anybody
else who free solos is there really is a meditative component
to it. Like you calm your anxiety, you
deep breathe. Like, you really get in the
moment and stay present. Yeah.
It's like it's a little bit moredangerous than yoga, perhaps.
But perhaps. Perhaps so I did do it.
(41:16):
Yeah, I, I know that's crazy. I'm really proud of you.
And also, please don't do that again.
What is your anxiety level? Like 00 is like, I could fall
asleep right now and 10 is like what?
Like I mean in when you were trying to adjust.
Rings. In general, when you're trying
to assess your anxiety, like what kind of range do you use?
(41:39):
Like specifically for that climber in general when I'm
climbing? Like what's the peak level of
anxiety? Fine for that climb
specifically. I mean, for that one, I was like
killing. I was having fun.
I was not stressed out. Like I was going really slowly
and like being calm about it andnot fucking around.
(42:00):
Like this is not something whereyou're joking around with your
friends and like doing stupid things and smacking somebody's
ass on the way up, which wouldn't be something that I
would do in normal circumstances.
Like you have to take it seriously.
But I was pretty calm in general.
I get stressed out climbing, especially outdoors.
Indoors, I don't get as dressed,but I am somebody who will like
(42:22):
come down shaking and crying, like freaks the shit out on a
windy day, for example. Like that never happens indoors,
obviously, but that's something that messes with my head a ton
if I'm outdoors. Or if the rock is a little bit
more jaggedy and the anchor or the top of the climb is a little
bit out of view and so you can see the rope like scraping on
(42:45):
rock above you. That stresses me out a lot and I
know the rope's not about to be sawed in half to In my head
that's what's happening, that the ropes getting weaker and
weaker the longer I'm up there. Oh no.
And that maybe my breakfast burrito was too big and that
extra pound is going to be the death of me.
(43:06):
Just. Drop.
Just kidding, but was the burrito worth it?
No, Always. So yeah, so interesting.
That makes sense. I would definitely be scared
outside climbing like that seemsmore scary.
There's so many factors that cango wrong that are out of your
control, but I know you and I have both experienced this.
(43:27):
Can you explain the feeling of being scared inside, inside
climbing indoor? So can you explain the feeling
of being scared even though you're connected to a rope and a
harness? Like why?
Why does that happen to us? We know we're safe.
That's. A good question like why is it
that we still get? Scared.
Yeah. Like I mean do you feel scared
(43:51):
either way in your professional opinion?
Depends on the type of climbing you're doing right?
Because bouldering there's like a sense of fear over I could
land wrong or I know that I'm free falling to the ground even
if I know that it's a safe height or top roping.
I think it's different for different people.
What's stressing them out right Like for me, sometimes I get
(44:14):
stressed that my Blair is not paying attention or they're
giving me way too much slack. If they're using an ATC instead
of a Gregory, I'm worried about human error.
Don't get so stressed anymore. Lead climbing stresses me out
because I still feel like I can hit the ground even when the
Blair is really confident that they can catch me if I'm at
(44:34):
least two clips up right. But like you can take a ground
fall lead climbing from pretty high up.
If there's like if you have pulled out enough rope to try to
clip in to the clip above you and you have a shit ton of extra
rope and you fall in that momentand you are hitting the ground.
Yeah, and for? Me, I get really stressed about
(44:57):
potential injury. My body like freezes sometimes
if I'm like needing to go for the next hold.
I'm like I physically cannot bring my leg up right now.
My legs start to shake and it isvisible to people on the ground
watching me. I physically cannot go up here.
But that's a normal response isn't it?
Like we should be scared shitless about falling from a
(45:19):
massive height evolutionarily speaking.
What the fuck is wrong with you if you're not scared, honestly.
OK, so if you guys, if you're climbing and you're not scared,
go to therapy. Yeah, actually.
So to wrap up this section, who is your favorite professional
(45:39):
climber or who is your climbing inspiration, Brooke?
Rabitau. I don't know if I'm saying her
last name correctly, but she's about our age.
She is fucking beast. She does a ton of outdoor
climbing. She climbs for US women's team
(46:00):
doing all sorts of like bouldering or lead competitions.
She's awesome. Wow, amazing.
Rab. I'll have to try to spell Rab
Tau. How?
It's RABOUTI found you. Yeah.
I found it. OK, Cool.
I yeah, I didn't know about her.OK.
She's 24 years old. She's 5/2.
(46:24):
She is from Boulder, Co. That checks out.
Oh my God. She was at the Summer Olympics
in in Paris 2024. Yeah, she's cool.
That's so cool. OK, I love that.
What if you met her one day? Would you be so stoked?
Nico ran into her climbing one day, I think it was in Colorado.
(46:46):
Oh my. God, like there's only so many
outdoor places you climb, right?So all these professional
climbers who want to go on fun and climb outside, I don't know.
That makes sense. That's so cool.
I love that, Yeah. If anyone who like trains for
the Olympics or anything else, they all train in Salt Lake
City, UT. So if you're trying to run into
(47:07):
professional climbers, go to thebig Salt Lake City gyms.
And then, and then if you're trying to run into the Mormons
from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, go to SWIG, go to SWIG,
aren't. They all in Draper, UT, are
they? I think there's a bunch and I
think they're like near Salt Lake City.
(47:28):
Yeah, which, like Draper's maybe20 minutes from Salt Lake I.
Think for 30 minutes. It's close.
It's close. Yeah.
So funny. So Utah is full of rock climbers
and Mormons. I mean, yeah.
For sure, I love it. But they all climb because
there's so much outdoor climbing.
(47:52):
I know that you probably alreadyknew a lot of the facts that we
talked about in this chat, but is there anything that was new
to you? What was your favorite thing
that you learned or discussed during this chat?
The EB climbing shoe I'd never heard of before.
I don't know what. That is OK, so you learned
something. I did.
Yay, there's. A lot that I don't know, but
(48:14):
this is like a good level of difficulty for me.
Good. Yeah, I wanted to make sure
there's some history. There were some like jargon,
lingo and then there was some sort of professional level, the
three different sections. Yeah, I liked it.
It was good. Yeah, did you have fun?
I did have fun and I did learn some.
(48:35):
You like knew your shit. For somebody who doesn't climb
on a regular basis, the way you just jumped in with quick
definitions of this is what leadclimbing is and this is what a
mantle is, I was impressed you got to come climbing key again.
Thank you. Yeah, I seriously, I really do
miss climbing with you. It sucks.
It's been like years. It's been so many years and
(48:57):
like, the gym I go to is movement, but here in SF, not in
the Peninsula, Yeah, it's just hard because like, we live
across the bridge from each other and I know it's not that
far, but like the Bay Bridge canget really tough sometimes.
During traffic, it's just dude, yeah.
Coming home from your place Friday night, Like I kept
(49:17):
checking Google Maps because I was like, I don't want to be
sitting in traffic. And there was like a crash on
the bridge that added like a 20 extra minute.
So that's why we waited. Waited.
Really. 11:00 PM. Yeah.
What the? Fuck that's crazy, I didn't know
there was traffic. Yeah, and like construction
going on, but it was OK. We waited until it kind of died
(49:38):
off. Yeah.
OK, I'm glad you had fun. So assuming you would be, you'd
be down to be a guest again? I hope so.
What do you think you'd want to be quizzed on?
Skiing bird ownership lol. That's got to be like a short
mini episode because I do not know what I would talk about,
(49:59):
but this is I'll bring him for the next episode.
Oh, I didn't even wear my climbing helmet for this
episode. We have to redo the whole thing.
I'm just putting. Why don't you?
Wear did he poop and just took ashit on me?
There's three poops on me cuz he's been on my lap this entire
recording session and I've just been waiting to get them because
(50:22):
I. Oh.
There is such shit on both my legs right now, Hannah.
OK, we're gonna wrap this up so Hannah can clean the bird shit
off of her. So next time maybe we can talk
about bird ownership. Hannah obviously has a bird.
(50:42):
His name is Randall, but she's actually a girl.
Yeah, and I'll. Don't worry.
I'll make it a I'll make it a full episode.
I mean, you, you see my format now?
I'll. I'll make it a full episode.
Don't worry. OK, perfect.
OK, cool. Let's do the outro.
Why don't you put on your helmetfor this?
(51:02):
OK, thank you. Got us the ears.
The ears. Why is it so Okay, gotta tighten
it. This got like a little knob to
tighten it back there. Yep.
Yeah, okay, you look great. Thanks for listening to the
show. This is Trivia Tangents, where
we cover various trivia topics. We have new episodes released
(51:25):
every Thursday, which I like to call Trivia Thursday.
I'm Lena, and special thanks to our guest Hannah for sharing her
awesome insights and trivia tangents about rock climbing
with us. And she's wearing her helmet for
the outro. Cannot take her seriously.
Just a quick reminder, make sureto keep an eye out for the next
episode all about chocolate making.
(51:48):
This one is coming out Thursday,July 31st.
I will be on a little summer break between this episode and
the next. I will be traveling to New York
City and then Italy, so I will see you guys in late July.
If you want to follow along withmy adventures, you can follow me
at Lena Osofsky on Instagram andI'll try and keep the podcast
(52:09):
Instagram updated as well. Until then, thanks for
listening. And learning.
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five star
rating or thumbs up. Follow or subscribe and share
with a friend for bonus content.You can find trivia tangents on
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and of course all podcast platforms
under Trivia Tangents Podcast. Check out our website at
(52:30):
triviatangentspodcast.com to purchase trivia starter packs
based on these episodes, perfectfor hosting your very own trivia
night.
Welcome to Trivia Tangents, the podcast where we turn everyday
passions into surprising trivia deep dives.
I'm your host, Lena, and each week I quiz a friend on
something they know way too muchabout, turning everyday passions
into trivia gold. We all know that on trivia
night, the bigger the team, the better you'll play.
So that's why I bring the team together here on Trivia
(00:33):
Tangents. Today's guest is Hannah, who's
here to talk all about rock climbing.
So get ready for some fun facts you'll definitely want for your
next trivia night. Hi, Hannah, welcome to the pod.
That statement about quizzing friends on something they know
way too much about is outrageousbecause I'm about to embarrass
myself with my lack of knowledgeabout rock climbing trivia, Nico
(00:57):
told me to study. Oh my God.
It's three questions, three simple multiple choice.
I'm sure you're going to ace it,and if you don't, that's OK.
That just means you have to comeback on the podcast and ace
something else. I'll study next time.
To give a little introduction ofHannah, she's one of my funniest
friends. She is an avid rock climber and
(01:19):
skier. She's one of my more outdoorsy
friends and we've had a lot of fun together on camping and ski
trips and kind of remembering how we met, like, I don't know,
three years ago. We originally met probably in
college, like once in senior year at a mutual friend's
(01:39):
birthday at the time. But we definitely became closer
after college since we both lived in the Peninsula and
started rock climbing together at Movement.
Am I remembering all that correctly?
You are and I very much remembermeeting you in college because
we played that game most likely to OK do and we didn't know.
Yes, that's a core memory for mebecause I remember my cards were
(02:03):
so funny that I was assigned like most likely to blah, blah,
blah. I don't remember what they are.
I have a picture somewhere, but it was a fun time.
It was. Kind of funny playing that game
with people you don't know because you're just, yeah,
guessing who you think they are based on 5 minutes of
interaction. Yeah, it's so funny, but a great
way to make friends. So maybe I need to have that
(02:23):
game. All right, so today we are
discussing 3 different sections.The birth of the climbing shoe,
cracking, the route setting lingo and famous climbers and
free solo feats. Shall we jump into question one?
Shit, OK, go for it. I'll do my very best.
(02:48):
Section 1. The birth of the climbing shoe.
Trivia question one. Which brand is considered to
have made the first purpose built rock climbing shoe, a Las
Portiva B-510-C Boreal or Deb the 1st all-purpose?
(03:09):
Climbing. Shoe, yes.
I'm gonna go with Las Portiva. That's a really, really, really
good guess, and that's why I included it, because I wanted to
trip you up and you're wrong. Shit.
What is it that's OK? The answer is EB and it stands
for Edmund Bordano in. Fact.
Heard of that? I know.
Let me tell you a little bit more about this.
Are you ready? Go for it.
(03:30):
OK, so here's a little mini deepdive on the answer of this
question, which is actually really interesting.
So in the 1930s and 40s, climbers were really heavy
boots. But things changed between 1930
and 1947 when someone named Pierre Alain a French alpinist.
(03:51):
Alpinist. Yes, a French alpinist started
developing lighter footwear withbetter rubber soles.
His first creation involved his gym sneakers, and he stuck extra
rubber to reinforce the sides. He then teamed up with a local
Shoemaker and created the first shoe specifically designed for
(04:12):
rock climbing, called the PA Boot PA As in his initials, the
duo only sold their shoes to a handful of local climbing
enthusiasts. And here's where the guy EB gets
in the picture. So in 1950, Pierre Elaine's
business was bought by Edmund Bordano EB.
He was an expert Shoemaker and he kept manufacturing the
(04:36):
climbing shoe, but now with his initials EB on a round piece of
leather on the ankle. So his little company logo and
these shoes transformed the sport, allowing climbers to
confidently tackle steeper, moretechnical routes.
The success of EB paved the way for modern brands like Las
Furtiva 510 and Scarpa. So I know that answer or the
(04:58):
question was like a little bit tricky because I it was framed
as in what brand? I guess if you were to say ask
like who made the first climbingshoe, it would probably be
Pierre Elaine. But I wanted to talk about the
brands. So there you go.
Well, and as you're talking, I looked at whether he was dead or
not because there's another climber with like a French
(05:19):
climber with a similar name who had died super young climbing.
And I don't know the name now, but he died at 96.
So we're good. Pierre Elaine lived a long life.
1930s was almost 100 years ago, so most likely he's dead.
Yeah, he's dead now, Yeah. Along with a lot of other rock
(05:40):
climbers, which is really sad, but we can get into that later.
So, Hannah, back to this sectionhere, all about climbing shoes.
Do you remember your first pair of climbing shoes ever, ever,
Ever. It wasn't that long ago, so I'm
pretty sure I had. Was it Las Portiva?
(06:01):
It might have been like the really, really flat kind that
isn't a good climbing shoe but is like the cheapest shoe
because it doesn't buck up your whole foot.
So many of the climbing shoes are like this.
After dancing my whole life, yeah, I'm not about to fuck with
that again. Like it's just not happening.
(06:21):
It's not fun anymore when your shoes like that.
Like what in the world? You're not having fun.
Yeah, every time I climb I have to take off my shoes in between
each route basically just because it's so uncomfortable
and and my shoes are pretty simple.
They're just basically flat likeyou're first shoes too.
(06:41):
But still they're pretty uncomfortable to wear.
They're not meant for walking. No, I mean no.
Climbing shoes are meant for walking.
You wear like different shoes onthe approach to an outdoor
climb. You would never wear your
climbing shoe. But I wear more aggressive ones
now. But they're not nearly as
aggressive as like the the point.
Some of them are literally like a little rainbow.
(07:04):
The arch of the shoe. Dude, yeah, it's.
Outrageous. Outrageous.
In dancing, did you ever have your teacher or coach like sit
on your toes while you're sitting in a Pike and have them
like get your toes to be really aggressively pointed into a
rainbow shape? I mean, not that specifically, I
didn't have somebody sit their ass down on my foot, no.
(07:24):
Is that a normal experience? Oh OK.
I was literally just talking to Elizabeth in the last episode
about our experience in gymnastics.
And yes, that's a normal thing for gymnastics.
What the fuck? No, I don't feel like that ever
happened to me in dance, but. Probably dance is a healthier
culture. I mean, it's not known for that,
(07:47):
yeah. OK, well, anyway, back to the
shoe. I literally picked mine out of a
used bucket at the Rochnasium, Jim and Davis.
So mine are very casual. Yeah.
And you still have the same ones.
Yeah, I still have the same ones.
They're literally falling apart.But also I don't climb as much
as you do. Yeah, fair enough.
(08:07):
So like the rubber gets hard or something over time, can't
really use the rubber, doesn't last forever.
You can't buy climbing shoes ears in advance and just keep
them. Oh, I didn't know that, huh?
Yeah, the rubber like you'd wantto.
I mean, people will still use itand it's fine, but theoretically
you want fresh rubber on your shoes.
Damn, maybe that's why I'm not very good.
(08:30):
Cuz your shoes are how many years old now?
So old, so old. And he knows how many years they
were used before I picked them out of a bucket.
Yeah, your client shoes are at least a decade old.
They're not. They're not great.
Well, OK, maybe after this episode I'm going to know more
about shoes and I'll be able to pick out a new pair that's that
(08:53):
works for me. I'll go with you.
OK, perfect. So you were saying you have more
aggressive shoes now. I guess that means yes, you've
tried in stiff soled shoes versus more like sensitive soft
sold shoes. You've had both.
Yeah. I would say the main difference
is not how soft the rubber is, but it's, I mean there are
(09:16):
differences in rubber quality, but it's how flat the shoe is
versus. How arched got it?
So like. The more aggressive shoes have a
much more aggressive arch on theshoe.
Got it. Yeah, it helps you get your.
Weight onto your toes when you're climbing.
That makes sense. So when you choose your shoes,
are you looking for comfort? Are you looking for performance?
(09:36):
And like, how many climbing shoes do you have today?
I only have two that are in active use, but I keep all my
old shoes because I tell myself that I'm going to get them all
resold and because you have to pay to mail them in.
I've been gathering all of my old climbing shoes with holes
and stuff in the rubber thinkingthat one day I'll mail them in
and get new rubber on them, which I'll never do.
(09:57):
But I have a lot of climbing shoes because I'm saving them to
fix them. That and I'll never fix them.
I forgot what your original question was.
How aggressive of a shoe I like.How do you choose your climbing
shoes? Is it comfort?
Is it performance? Is it a little bit of both?
It's a little. Bit of both that I was matching
(10:20):
your tone. I love it for comfort more than
most people. At this point I should be
looking for more aggressive shoes and be worried about
performance. Except that I'm just not going
to do that to my feet. Not about it.
Yeah, I love. This.
It's not worth it. It's not fun.
Yeah, no, I'm totally with you there.
(10:40):
Not fun. OK, for those of you guys
listening who maybe aren't as familiar with rock climbing, the
kind of shoe you choose really helps you climb basically like
depending on what different kinds of routes, what different
kinds of climbing moves you're doing, like indoor versus
outdoor, Right, Hannah? So like it.
You really. Yeah.
It's like a. Huge decision what kind of shoe
(11:02):
you have and that's why multipleand that's why climbers usually
have like multiple different pairs of shoes.
Yeah, although I'd say it only matters once you're not brand
new, like when you're brand new to climbing for your first at
least six months, but but probably a year.
It doesn't fucking matter what shoe you wear.
You're just trying to like buildarm strength, use your core and
(11:24):
keep your arms straight. And it like the rubber on your
shoe is not your limiting factor.
And then it's only after you're right.
Like the rental shoes, I will say fucking suck.
They're like useless. But like any climbing shoe that
you can buy at a store is for your first year is not what's
(11:44):
limiting you. Good to know after that.
Yeah. So let's get into Section 2,
kind of discussing the more advanced sort of climbing or
different kinds of moves that you can do within climbing.
(12:06):
Section 2. Cracking the route setting
lingo. Are you ready for trivia?
Question 2. I think I'm ready for this one.
I feel good about this one. I think you're going to get it.
OK, uh. Oh, trivia question 2.
What's the term for a dynamic jump or leap move in a climbing
route? A mantle B Gaston, C Dino or D
(12:30):
smear? Yeah, Dino.
Good job. Wow, that was quick.
And then do you know what the other ones are?
Mantle, Gaston Smear. I do, except I was only half
listening because I knew the answer was Dino before you went
through the options. But those are like Dino almost
(12:51):
is like so obvious because that's the name for a dynamic
movement. There's a reason of Dino, yes.
So, well, I wanted to make sure you got at least one question
right, so. Thank you, I appreciate it.
This is going to be really embarrassing if I got nothing.
So just before getting into the deep dive, let's just quickly
explain explain the other options.
(13:13):
So I had to look these up. In all transparency, I know I'm
climber, but not like I'm not that good.
OK, so mantle is when you push down on a hold and bring your
feet up to meet your hands, right?
Yeah, it's almost like. Yeah, yeah.
Like push push. Down on it.
Yeah, OK. And then smear is using the
(13:36):
friction of your shoe against a surface when there aren't
defined holds, right? Yeah.
So it's yeah ass. It sucks.
Yeah, cuz like you could slip and it's really scary.
Yeah, cheese great. Down the wall, that's what I
call it. God, that's envisioning.
That's horrible. No it.
(13:56):
Fucking sucks. And then Gaston, which is
basically pushing outwards on a hold with the palm facing
inwards, similar to like prying open a door.
Is that just when you like? I feel like I should know that
term. Yeah, I think that's all it is.
It's just like the tension. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
(14:19):
So as you guys can see, route setting has its very own special
language lingo jargon, and dyno is one of the most exciting
moves in a climber's vocabulary.According to the Internet, Dyno
DYNO is short for a dynamic move, like our expert Hannah
(14:39):
said, and it basically requires A climber to jump or lunge to
the next hold, and sometimes both hands and feet can come off
the wall. And route setters use this move
to create high energy, thrillingsections of a climb.
Other jargon includes slab for low angle climbs, overhang for
(15:02):
steep routes, and then crux for the hardest part of the route.
Professional setters carefully choose these elements to create
a balanced, challenging, and funexperience.
So Hannah, I would love to pick your brain a little bit more
about these different kinds of moves here.
Do you think you would prefer a static move or a more dynamic
(15:22):
move when you climb? That is the easiest question
I've ever answered in my entire life.
Static. Nobody who has gone to therapy
likes dynos. Oh my God.
OK so would you say that Dinos are thrilling and high energy or
scary and terrifying? Bow everything for me, for me.
(15:45):
It's just not gonna happen. I love that.
So I guess in yeah, in my opinion, same.
I like static. My favorite move I think is
called an arm bar. So it's like when your route is
kind of along near the corner ofa wall, like an edge or corner,
(16:06):
and you kind of have to use yourarm to wrap around the wall and
there's no hold there. You kind of just have to like
wrap around. I don't know if this is an
official move, but I like when that happens.
What about you? What's your favorite move?
I. Don't know if I have a favorite
move. I'm a good mantle girly because
it's low strength. It's not like as hard in my
(16:29):
opinion to like get my leg up because I used to dance.
So flexibility is not the issue.And so it's a lot easier to just
like hold yourself up like that as opposed to pulling yourself
up from a hold. 100% yeah. Mantle, good way to go.
OK cool. So, in your past climbing
experience, do you have a most memorable or scariest move that
(16:52):
you've tried in the past? I don't think I've like a
scariest move, but like I, I could tell you the scariest
experience I've ever had climbing.
And it's like, not about the climbing, but it's about the
features of being outdoors. So wait, this is kind of perfect
because I have my bird here. I'll show you a lot of birds.
(17:12):
However, I hate pigeons and I'm afraid of pigeons, and so one
time I went climbing outdoors atMount Diablo and there was a
little cave in between two climbs, and I'm halfway up this
wall and I start hearing flapping in this cave.
I'm in tears. We got there super early because
(17:33):
there's like one climb and so a bunch of people are waiting to
get on after me. So there's a crowd of people
watching me at this point and I am crying over pigeons,
screaming to be let down off this climb.
I think there's a video of it somewhere.
And so most of my like, scary climbing experiences don't
really have a whole lot to do with climbing because I freak
(17:55):
myself out over some feature that has nothing to do with the
actual climb. Pigeons scare the shit out of
me. So that's my most scary
experience climbing. Oh my God, that was so
unexpected. Pigeons.
Yeah, pigeons. That was a couple years ago.
I hate. What is it?
But why? What is it about pigeons?
(18:16):
You have a bird. They're dirty sewer rat birds.
OK. They're St. birds.
What about the ones that have like pretty green purpley necks?
They're all disgusting. They're like, I imagine them
rummaging through people's food and trash that they left on the
ground and hanging out around the sewers on the street.
(18:38):
They're, yeah. Rat birds, yeah.
Basically, and I didn't want onenear me.
And I think they're really comfortable around people.
And so this whole time on this climb, I am in front of this
cave full of what sounds like 20fucking pigeons that could fly
out at me at any second and touch me with their dirty
rappered wings. Oh my God, I wonder if birds can
(19:01):
get rabies, because that would make it even more terrifying.
What are your thoughts on Ravensthen?
Because here in San Francisco wehave a lot of Ravens.
Or are they crows? They're big black birds, and
they're always the ones rummaging through the trash.
I haven't thought about Ravens as much or crows, whatever is
there in San Francisco. I just don't see them as often.
Pigeons are everywhere. OK, I feel like, yeah, pigeons
(19:22):
is like mostly an Oakland thing or like a downtown.
And then Ravens are like any more, I don't know, nature.
They like to hang on the nature.But anyway, that was a tangent.
Welcome to trivia tangents. That's what we do here.
So getting back on track about climbing moves, how do you
(19:44):
mentally approach the crux of a climb?
Do you have any tricks or mindset hacks?
Or do you just full send it? No thoughts.
That's a really good question because there is probably a
right answer, which would be to plan it out before you get
there. Like you're on the ground.
Have you ever seen somebody standing on the ground just
like? Yeah, I think.
It's doing nothing, talking to nobody and just doing arm
(20:06):
movements. They're planning out what
they're going to do. Yeah, Christian says it's
getting beta. Basically like just like
inhaling information from the wall, the wall is seeing.
It, that is a funny way to put inhaling information.
No, it's just like thinking about OK, before you get there.
I can only do that move if my right hand is on that hold,
(20:28):
which is what would allow me to use my left hand for that one
that's way off to the left. So you kind of have to plan it
out because it's really hard like energy wise to have to
readjust on the wall once you'realready there.
And so you kind of have to, and then people are really serious
about getting something on the first attempt.
And so I don't really care aboutthat.
Just if I get it, I get it and that's great and I'll keep
(20:49):
trying. I don't really care.
But some people are really serious about like first try, I
did it and that's it. Oh my gosh, Those people are
very competitive. So you're saying you don't think
about it, you just go in, you just do it, Yeah.
Sometimes I look at it, especially if it's at the very
top of the wall for bouldering. I don't love falling from the
very top, so if the hardest partis at the very top, I want to
(21:11):
plan it out in advance. But if it's at the bottom,
there's no chance that I've planned it out in advance.
Yeah, you pick up a good point, bouldering versus top rope.
So when I'm rock climbing, I only do top rope and I usually
like to have my partner goes first, so then I can like watch
them and see what kind of route they take, what rocks or holds
(21:32):
they grab onto and which ones they skip.
Do you like to go first or second when you're doing top
rope? I think that's assuming that
we're doing the same climbs. It's pretty likely that I'm
climbing when we roping if we'reindoors.
Yeah. Like that assumes that I'm doing
this all the same routes as the person I'm climbing with.
Wait. Oh OK, cuz when we rock climb
(21:54):
together we always kind of, you know, did the same one.
Or at least that's how I do it. Well, some, but you really don't
have to for top rope or for least climbing any rope Climbing
actually, unless it's outdoors where it takes a whole lot of
effort to set up an anchor at the very top.
Yeah, like you kind of have to commit to all doing the same
route there because it's just, it's going to take an hour to
(22:16):
set it up on a different route. But indoors, there's no reason
you have to be doing the same route as somebody else.
So theoretically, yes, I like towatch somebody else do one
first. However, if they send it really
smoothly, then it's way too muchpressure for me to do that same
route right after. So it's a mixed bag.
(22:37):
And there's also something aboutthe puzzle solving aspect of
climbing where you don't really want to watch exactly how
somebody else does it because itstifles your own problem solving
and creativity. That makes sense.
That makes sense. Yeah.
I don't know. I guess I just like to have
someone figure it out for me andI can just copy them.
(22:58):
OK, so you're here for the exercise and not for the puzzle
solving? Yeah, I guess not.
I'm like, OK, if I want to puzzle solve, I can.
I have my Rubik's Cube right here.
Always so. Do you really?
Yes, I I know how to solve a Rubik's Cube.
I have it on my desk at all times.
I'll show you. Damn girl.
Here it is. And it is solved right now.
(23:21):
I can confirm for viewers that Lena has solved her Rubik's
Cube. Thank you so much.
Yeah, you know what, maybe I need to do an episode on that,
but I would just be interviewingmyself.
One more thing about like the top rope, like you said, you're
like, oh, you can, anyone can just do whatever route they
want. I guess that proves I'm really
(23:42):
lazy because I'm like, OK, you know, if the gym is really busy
and we've staked out this one route, you know, people like tap
on your shoulder, like, hey, canI go next when you're done?
And like if your partner wants to do it, it's like, OK, this is
your chance to do it. And then also doing the the not
loop de loop thingy takes a lot of effort for me.
(24:02):
So I'm like, OK, if I do it, we're we're both doing the same
one, right? I know they have to like I have
to untie and they have to do it,but I don't know.
Interesting, how fair enough we think about that differently.
Yeah, I do not think of that as a high effort thing to make the
finger 8 and retie it because yeah, in a gym it's usually it
(24:22):
stays tied most of the time and you don't even have to retie it
at a new climb. Yeah, honestly, wait, you might
be right. And then, Oh my gosh, that
brings up another point. Like Grigri versus just like
ATC. ATC, what's your opinion?
I mean, I would prefer to have more safety features than not
so. You.
(24:44):
Agree, do the auto lock thing. Like, theoretically I'm not
gonna do it, but theoretically Icould really fuck up and not be
catching my climbing partner. They fall.
Gregory automatically locks. Yeah, an.
ATC like you really could fuck up.
I know, I know. So those are just basically
devices that are attached to theBlair's harness, and that kind
(25:09):
is what connects the Blair to the rope, which is really
important because the rope is then connected to the climber.
So if they fall, there really needs to be that sort of system
that makes sure that it catches them if they fall.
So Gregory versus ATC, maybe we can have that as a poll question
(25:30):
and see who prefers which and which one wins?
Anyone who says ATC needs therapy, I will confidently say
that I'll just like. There's a few things throughout
this conversation where I'll be like if you like dynos, see a
therapist. If you use an ATC, see a
therapist. Period.
That's it. I love that everyone needs
(25:52):
therapy and but yeah, if you do like those things, you
especially need therapy and you can reach out to Hannah who
recently got her or finish is finishing up her school.
Don't reach out to me. You're beyond saving if you do,
Dinos. I'm just kidding.
(26:15):
So yeah, those people who do those moves definitely have
something going on in their in their brains.
So that kind of is a great segueinto our third section, which is
about famous climbers and free solo feats.
Alex Honnold needs therapy. OK, let's see if you get
(26:44):
question 3 right. Are you ready?
Who famously completed the firstfree solo ascent of El Capitan's
Free Rider route in Yosemite. What a good.
Segue, what a great segue. I'm just going to let you answer
that and not even read the multiple choice.
Go ahead, Tommy Caldwell, I'm just.
(27:05):
Kidding. I know wait because he was one
of the multiple choice people. My boy Alex once that there's
like a viral video of him blasting Fetty Wap from a
speaker as he free solos El Cap.Have you seen that?
That's iconic. I haven't seen that.
Please, please send it to me because I want to put it on the
(27:26):
Instagram. Yeah, I'll send.
That so it's pretty funny and he's just like unbothered he.
Needs. He needs therapy.
I wonder if he already is in therapy and what his therapist
thinks. OK.
My genuine question as somebody who works in mental health is if
(27:49):
somebody tells you that they plan to free solo a client
that's going to take multiple hours, something like El Cap
where if you fall you're dead, is that considered a risk to
self Which would spark mandated reporting requirements on the
part of the therapist? Like does a therapist if told by
(28:09):
their client that they're going to go free solo.
Something ginormous? Yeah.
Will lead to their death with one tiny slip up.
Do they have to call the police?That's a great question.
I wonder that. I mean, OK, let's say Hannah, if
you when, when you like have your license and everything, if
(28:29):
you have a a client who says that to you, are you going to go
to the police? I mean, that's probably not.
Probably not because it's not anintent to commit suicide.
You're not actually intending tohurt yourself.
Yeah, it's like, obviously they want to make it.
(28:49):
They want to make it to the top.Yeah, like there's no, like,
intent to harm yourself, but like, people do risky things all
the time that could result in their death, like driving a car.
There's so many things that would do that can be dangerous.
So I don't know, maybe that's not my place, but interesting,
interesting. El Cap seems like another level
(29:10):
of like risk. Yeah.
So yeah, in the multiple choice question, I had Alex Honnold,
which is the answer. I also had Tommy Caldwell, Chris
Sharma and Lynn Hill. Are you familiar with these
people? All except Lynn Hill.
OK. Chris Sharma has a climbing
show. Have you seen that?
(29:31):
No, he's, Oh my, he looks fucking weird in it.
He's a freak. Wait, what?
He's just like filming himself climbing well.
No, he has like a bunch of climbing contestants compete in
all these different types of climbing, bouldering, deep water
soloing. So he's like a, he's like.
All sorts of things. Yeah.
He's the host alongside the guy,the actor who plays Aquaman.
(29:56):
Wait, oh, what's his name? Jason.
Jason. Jason.
Momoa, Jason. Momoa, Jason Momoa show What
else do I watch? I think so funny made one
season. Oh my God this sounds.
I love Jason Momoa because I love him also.
(30:21):
Like, there's totally a pro NFL player who looks like Jason
Momoa. And yeah.
And then just like the whole like Amber Heard, Johnny Depp
trial that went down like Jason Momoa, like.
Have to do with that. No, because he was an Aquaman
and she played like Aqua Woman or whatever.
Oh, right. Yeah, OK.
(30:42):
So I was like very in tune with Jason Momoa like 2 years ago.
OK, that means I definitely needto watch this show.
Do you remember the name of it? Might have been called the
climb. OK, they weren't that.
Creative. Chris Sharma and Jason Momoa.
Chris Sharma just comes off likea cocky motherfucker on that
(31:05):
show. And maybe he has the right to
be, but he just like did not seem some like somebody who I
wanted to hang out with. He seemed insufferable.
Like, gosh, I was like, I don't want to hang out.
Oh my God, yeah. Honestly, some people who climb
can be just, like, so fucking into it and, like, so cocky.
It's, like, annoying. But yeah, you're right.
(31:26):
Yeah. Jason Momoa and Chris Sharma
have a show called The Climb. You can find it on HBO Max.
Yep, there you go. The other folks on that list,
cuz I, you know, we're talking about Alex Honnold, but I want
to make sure these other people get a quick shout out.
Tommy Caldwell, 46 year old American rock climber.
He's still alive. Yay.
He's from Colorado. And he is known for the first
(31:48):
free ascent of several major routes on El Capitan in
Yosemite, but he's not the firstperson to make it.
That was Alex Honnold. Is that right?
Yeah. OK.
Cool. And then yes, we mentioned Chris
Sharma. He is also still alive.
He's from Santa Cruz. Pretty cool.
He's 44 years old and he has a show with Jason Momoa.
(32:09):
Very cool. And then lastly we have Lynn
Hill. She's a 64 year old woman.
She's still alive, famous American rock climber from
Michigan. And she has a book called
Climbing Free, which makes me think she's practiced in the art
of free solo, so that's pretty cool.
She's 64 years old, yeah. Holy sport.
(32:32):
I feel like I know who you're talking about now that you've
described her. Yeah, Yeah.
Chris Sharma set a lot of the routes at Castle Rock, which is
like a big climbing area in Santa Cruz.
No way. How cool.
He might have been like first descent or he I don't know the
details. I I don't know if he bolted the
routes or if he was just 1st to send or if I don't know.
(32:53):
Yeah, like designed it maybe. That's a cool.
That's a cool fact. Have you climbed there?
I have. It's better known for
bouldering. There's better bouldering than
there is rope climbing. Yeah.
Well, then that good. Good.
That brings like a good point, which I haven't asked you yet.
I think I know the answer. Do you prefer Bolt?
Wait, where did you talk about this?
You prefer top rope? Yeah.
I mean theoretically, like lead climbing or top rope, but I
(33:18):
don't know, it depends on the day.
Bouldering is so much easier to just like walk up alone and just
go boulder, which I like. There's low effort, don't have
to coordinate with other humans.I just go and then I leave and I
don't have to put on a harness. Or talk to people.
That's right. True.
Yeah. Hannah just likes low human
(33:38):
interaction. Got it.
Same. Yeah, which if you knew me, you
would understand why that works better for me.
So. Oh.
My God. And then for the listeners who
don't know, lead climbing is basically when the rope is not
connected to the wall or to start with, but you have to
continuously clip it into the carabiners as you're going up.
(34:01):
Is that right? Yeah, look at you go.
Yeah, I'm like why? Why do I?
Why am I even interviewing Hannah?
I know all about. I know you're a pro.
Yeah. You like?
Bring the Rover. With you and you can fall much
bigger distances. Yeah, and it's, it's really
scary and kind of funny to see people fall because then their
(34:21):
partner on the ground flies up in the air, you know, because of
physics. So.
Well, yeah, that is if you're belayer's lighter than you.
Yeah, yeah. OK, so let's get back on track.
Let's share a little bit more about Alex Honnold, our main man
who free soloed El Capitan and who definitely needs therapy.
(34:44):
So Alex Honnold stunned the world in 2017 when he became the
first person to climb the 3000 foot Free Rider route in El
Capitan, which is in Yosemite. He did this without ropes or
protection, known as free soloing.
This is captured in the documentary Free Solo, and his
(35:05):
ascent is seen as one of the greatest feats in climbing
history. Free soloing is incredibly risky
but represents the ultimate testof mental fortitude and
precision. Most climbers stick with ropes
and protection for good reason, but Honnold's achievement has
inspired a lot of awe and debatein the climbing community.
(35:27):
So I'm assuming you have seen Free Solo.
What are your thoughts in the documentary?
I mean, he's such an interestingperson because if you think
about it, there's something really meditative about him
doing that. In reality, his skill set is
much higher than El Cap, right? Like to him, that's a warm up
route. Like he's chilling on it.
(35:49):
But the thing that gets me is not about like his ability to do
that, which we all know he can, but it's committing to nothing
going wrong. And that's not all in your
control, right? Like you can tweak your finger a
little bit, a Little Rock could fall off the wall, like your
hand flips off. So many unexpected things could
(36:10):
happen. Like you could cross a cave full
of pigeons. That's such a good point
actually. I don't think there's caves on
that road, but. Well, yeah, but that's
interesting. He's yeah.
That's crazy to think that like El Cap is just a probably a warm
up route to him. I remember watching the
(36:31):
documentary. I've seen it twice now because
it was so interesting to me. I just remember his wife or his
girlfriend at the time being so scared.
And I just felt for her so hard because I'm like, Oh my God, as
a girlfriend, like think about your partner doing that.
That's terrifying. They might not come home but
like you want to support their hopes and dreams but you also
(36:55):
want them to be alive and like better yet.
What if? It it in the documentary, it
showed a bunch of examples of like previous free solo athletes
and some of them were fathers, some of them were mothers.
And like they died and their kids were left behind.
And that's just so incredibly sad to me.
So that's kind of the part that stuck out the most.
(37:15):
And I was like, I look to Christian and I'm like, you have
to promise me right now, you're never ever, ever, ever, ever
free soloing ever. So I don't have to be worried
about that. He doesn't.
Strike me as somebody who would want to be free soloing anyways.
Yeah, it's just a free disaster.Yeah, assuming you've never free
soloed, right? Not really, no.
(37:36):
OK, not really. OK.
There's like the have you heard of the flat?
Irons in Colorado No. It's in Boulder, but there's
three flat irons and I can't remember whether it might be
like the second flat iron. I always forget which one.
But like technically there's no like I did it without a rope
with Nico and with his friend who lives there.
(37:57):
And it took, it took a long time.
Took a long time because I was going really slowly in case
something happened. But it is like technically on a
rock face, but it's kind of morelike a scramble.
Like it's really easy climbing. I did it in climbing shoes, but
Nico and his friend did it in like normal shoes.
Oh shit. OK.
(38:18):
How long were you up there? Like without a rope?
Like 2 minutes. Two hours.
Yeah, I mean, I did it pretty fucking slowly.
But Nico's friend who we went with at one point I think held
the record for fastest time fromparking lot to the base of the
climb and all the way back down because he would like park his
car in the parking lot, run to the start of the climb.
(38:42):
He basically ran up it because it's an easy climb, and then
would come back down, run back to his car and have like a
record time for how fast he doesit.
And I think his time was half anhour and I spent two hours like
car whole loop back to the car and it took me two hours just on
(39:04):
the actual climb and like 30 minute hike up.
Oh my God, I said. Probably because you're being
careful. I was being careful.
And this friend who does it all the time, I don't know that it
this actually would have happened, but he was climbing
behind me with the intention of if I slipped and fell, he could
(39:27):
smush his body into the wall andtrap me between him and the wall
so that I wouldn't keep falling.That was the reasoning for like
the order of our climbing. I don't know that that actually
would have been possible, but heseemed really confident that he
could catch me if I fell. But I was just like, should not
play that game. I'm going to try not to fall.
(39:48):
Yeah, Well, it's a. Really good friend.
Wow, it's funny that he did not know Nico.
So like they've not used to it Iguess.
Some way more than Nico. That friend has done it like 50
plus times at least. Nico has done it never or once,
I don't know. Yeah, so actually that does make
sense. I'm so surprised you did that,
(40:10):
Hannah. So what drives a person to free
solo? What goes on in your crazy brain
to make you want to? Yeah, the need.
For therapy, yeah, The need for therapy is what drives.
The mentally, the mentally ill. People no.
What actually happened though was I wasn't committed to doing
it. Before we went on this trip to
Colorado, we were talking about doing this, but then the day
(40:33):
before, the decision was we're going to hike up to the base of
this climb. And depending on my anxiety
levels, like in the moment, I amdeciding whether or not I do
this because if I'm anxious, we're just turning around and
not doing it. I felt pretty calm when we got
to the base of the climb. So I was like, I can do this if
I'm calm. OK.
(40:53):
The thing about Alex Honnold free soloing El Cap or anybody
else who free solos is there really is a meditative component
to it. Like you calm your anxiety, you
deep breathe. Like, you really get in the
moment and stay present. Yeah.
It's like it's a little bit moredangerous than yoga, perhaps.
But perhaps. Perhaps so I did do it.
(41:16):
Yeah, I, I know that's crazy. I'm really proud of you.
And also, please don't do that again.
What is your anxiety level? Like 00 is like, I could fall
asleep right now and 10 is like what?
Like I mean in when you were trying to adjust.
Rings. In general, when you're trying
to assess your anxiety, like what kind of range do you use?
(41:39):
Like specifically for that climber in general when I'm
climbing? Like what's the peak level of
anxiety? Fine for that climb
specifically. I mean, for that one, I was like
killing. I was having fun.
I was not stressed out. Like I was going really slowly
and like being calm about it andnot fucking around.
(42:00):
Like this is not something whereyou're joking around with your
friends and like doing stupid things and smacking somebody's
ass on the way up, which wouldn't be something that I
would do in normal circumstances.
Like you have to take it seriously.
But I was pretty calm in general.
I get stressed out climbing, especially outdoors.
Indoors, I don't get as dressed,but I am somebody who will like
(42:22):
come down shaking and crying, like freaks the shit out on a
windy day, for example. Like that never happens indoors,
obviously, but that's something that messes with my head a ton
if I'm outdoors. Or if the rock is a little bit
more jaggedy and the anchor or the top of the climb is a little
bit out of view and so you can see the rope like scraping on
(42:45):
rock above you. That stresses me out a lot and I
know the rope's not about to be sawed in half to In my head
that's what's happening, that the ropes getting weaker and
weaker the longer I'm up there. Oh no.
And that maybe my breakfast burrito was too big and that
extra pound is going to be the death of me.
(43:06):
Just. Drop.
Just kidding, but was the burrito worth it?
No, Always. So yeah, so interesting.
That makes sense. I would definitely be scared
outside climbing like that seemsmore scary.
There's so many factors that cango wrong that are out of your
control, but I know you and I have both experienced this.
(43:27):
Can you explain the feeling of being scared inside, inside
climbing indoor? So can you explain the feeling
of being scared even though you're connected to a rope and a
harness? Like why?
Why does that happen to us? We know we're safe.
That's. A good question like why is it
that we still get? Scared.
Yeah. Like I mean do you feel scared
(43:51):
either way in your professional opinion?
Depends on the type of climbing you're doing right?
Because bouldering there's like a sense of fear over I could
land wrong or I know that I'm free falling to the ground even
if I know that it's a safe height or top roping.
I think it's different for different people.
What's stressing them out right Like for me, sometimes I get
(44:14):
stressed that my Blair is not paying attention or they're
giving me way too much slack. If they're using an ATC instead
of a Gregory, I'm worried about human error.
Don't get so stressed anymore. Lead climbing stresses me out
because I still feel like I can hit the ground even when the
Blair is really confident that they can catch me if I'm at
(44:34):
least two clips up right. But like you can take a ground
fall lead climbing from pretty high up.
If there's like if you have pulled out enough rope to try to
clip in to the clip above you and you have a shit ton of extra
rope and you fall in that momentand you are hitting the ground.
Yeah, and for? Me, I get really stressed about
(44:57):
potential injury. My body like freezes sometimes
if I'm like needing to go for the next hold.
I'm like I physically cannot bring my leg up right now.
My legs start to shake and it isvisible to people on the ground
watching me. I physically cannot go up here.
But that's a normal response isn't it?
Like we should be scared shitless about falling from a
(45:19):
massive height evolutionarily speaking.
What the fuck is wrong with you if you're not scared, honestly.
OK, so if you guys, if you're climbing and you're not scared,
go to therapy. Yeah, actually.
So to wrap up this section, who is your favorite professional
(45:39):
climber or who is your climbing inspiration, Brooke?
Rabitau. I don't know if I'm saying her
last name correctly, but she's about our age.
She is fucking beast. She does a ton of outdoor
climbing. She climbs for US women's team
(46:00):
doing all sorts of like bouldering or lead competitions.
She's awesome. Wow, amazing.
Rab. I'll have to try to spell Rab
Tau. How?
It's RABOUTI found you. Yeah.
I found it. OK, Cool.
I yeah, I didn't know about her.OK.
She's 24 years old. She's 5/2.
(46:24):
She is from Boulder, Co. That checks out.
Oh my God. She was at the Summer Olympics
in in Paris 2024. Yeah, she's cool.
That's so cool. OK, I love that.
What if you met her one day? Would you be so stoked?
Nico ran into her climbing one day, I think it was in Colorado.
(46:46):
Oh my. God, like there's only so many
outdoor places you climb, right?So all these professional
climbers who want to go on fun and climb outside, I don't know.
That makes sense. That's so cool.
I love that, Yeah. If anyone who like trains for
the Olympics or anything else, they all train in Salt Lake
City, UT. So if you're trying to run into
(47:07):
professional climbers, go to thebig Salt Lake City gyms.
And then, and then if you're trying to run into the Mormons
from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, go to SWIG, go to SWIG,
aren't. They all in Draper, UT, are
they? I think there's a bunch and I
think they're like near Salt Lake City.
(47:28):
Yeah, which, like Draper's maybe20 minutes from Salt Lake I.
Think for 30 minutes. It's close.
It's close. Yeah.
So funny. So Utah is full of rock climbers
and Mormons. I mean, yeah.
For sure, I love it. But they all climb because
there's so much outdoor climbing.
(47:52):
I know that you probably alreadyknew a lot of the facts that we
talked about in this chat, but is there anything that was new
to you? What was your favorite thing
that you learned or discussed during this chat?
The EB climbing shoe I'd never heard of before.
I don't know what. That is OK, so you learned
something. I did.
Yay, there's. A lot that I don't know, but
(48:14):
this is like a good level of difficulty for me.
Good. Yeah, I wanted to make sure
there's some history. There were some like jargon,
lingo and then there was some sort of professional level, the
three different sections. Yeah, I liked it.
It was good. Yeah, did you have fun?
I did have fun and I did learn some.
(48:35):
You like knew your shit. For somebody who doesn't climb
on a regular basis, the way you just jumped in with quick
definitions of this is what leadclimbing is and this is what a
mantle is, I was impressed you got to come climbing key again.
Thank you. Yeah, I seriously, I really do
miss climbing with you. It sucks.
It's been like years. It's been so many years and
(48:57):
like, the gym I go to is movement, but here in SF, not in
the Peninsula, Yeah, it's just hard because like, we live
across the bridge from each other and I know it's not that
far, but like the Bay Bridge canget really tough sometimes.
During traffic, it's just dude, yeah.
Coming home from your place Friday night, Like I kept
(49:17):
checking Google Maps because I was like, I don't want to be
sitting in traffic. And there was like a crash on
the bridge that added like a 20 extra minute.
So that's why we waited. Waited.
Really. 11:00 PM. Yeah.
What the? Fuck that's crazy, I didn't know
there was traffic. Yeah, and like construction
going on, but it was OK. We waited until it kind of died
(49:38):
off. Yeah.
OK, I'm glad you had fun. So assuming you would be, you'd
be down to be a guest again? I hope so.
What do you think you'd want to be quizzed on?
Skiing bird ownership lol. That's got to be like a short
mini episode because I do not know what I would talk about,
(49:59):
but this is I'll bring him for the next episode.
Oh, I didn't even wear my climbing helmet for this
episode. We have to redo the whole thing.
I'm just putting. Why don't you?
Wear did he poop and just took ashit on me?
There's three poops on me cuz he's been on my lap this entire
recording session and I've just been waiting to get them because
(50:22):
I. Oh.
There is such shit on both my legs right now, Hannah.
OK, we're gonna wrap this up so Hannah can clean the bird shit
off of her. So next time maybe we can talk
about bird ownership. Hannah obviously has a bird.
(50:42):
His name is Randall, but she's actually a girl.
Yeah, and I'll. Don't worry.
I'll make it a I'll make it a full episode.
I mean, you, you see my format now?
I'll. I'll make it a full episode.
Don't worry. OK, perfect.
OK, cool. Let's do the outro.
Why don't you put on your helmetfor this?
(51:02):
OK, thank you. Got us the ears.
The ears. Why is it so Okay, gotta tighten
it. This got like a little knob to
tighten it back there. Yep.
Yeah, okay, you look great. Thanks for listening to the
show. This is Trivia Tangents, where
we cover various trivia topics. We have new episodes released
(51:25):
every Thursday, which I like to call Trivia Thursday.
I'm Lena, and special thanks to our guest Hannah for sharing her
awesome insights and trivia tangents about rock climbing
with us. And she's wearing her helmet for
the outro. Cannot take her seriously.
Just a quick reminder, make sureto keep an eye out for the next
episode all about chocolate making.
(51:48):
This one is coming out Thursday,July 31st.
I will be on a little summer break between this episode and
the next. I will be traveling to New York
City and then Italy, so I will see you guys in late July.
If you want to follow along withmy adventures, you can follow me
at Lena Osofsky on Instagram andI'll try and keep the podcast
(52:09):
Instagram updated as well. Until then, thanks for
listening. And learning.
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five star
rating or thumbs up. Follow or subscribe and share
with a friend for bonus content.You can find trivia tangents on
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and of course all podcast platforms
under Trivia Tangents Podcast. Check out our website at
(52:30):
triviatangentspodcast.com to purchase trivia starter packs
based on these episodes, perfectfor hosting your very own trivia
night.
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