June 17, 2025 • 42 mins
S3 E21 - Jeff Koehn - Torture, Frustration and Joy - can lead you to express. Jeff recalls reading that suppression leads to depression and so he expresses in art, music and comedy. Jeff shares some of the struggles with being adopted and dating through a hilarious comedy bit and some of what he's learned about how adoption trauma impacts sense of self and identity.
Jeff' Koehn's paintings are in many galleries across the country. You can see by searching "Jeff Koehn Art"
Check out Jeff Koehn's art and comedy on his IG: https://www.instagram.com/jeffkoehnstandup/
or on his website: https://jefftheartist.wordpress.comhttps://jefftheartist.wordpress.com
Resources mentioned:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/501390.The_Primal_Wound
Reach Out about bookings, being a guest or to find a comedy show: https://www.nancynorton.tv/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
You're listening to Trauma D, the podcast that helps you take
your pain and play with it. I'm Nancy Norton.
I'm a comedian and a former nurse and a keynote speaker
about the power of humor, why weneeded, how it helps us, and I
am what? I'm a podcaster.
I guess it's obvious this is a podcast.
(00:26):
And what are we in a pod? Where did this whole pod thing
take off anyway? OK, upcoming comedy shows for
old Nance. I'm going to be in Madison, WI.
Madison and Waterloo, WI June 18th and 19th and then back home
in Boulder, Co at the Southern Sun on June 22nd.
(00:48):
And then and then what happens Then I go back to the Ozarks.
So a little contrast Boulder Ozarks and I'll be in Branson,
MO June 26th through the 28th. So come out and then let's go
water skiing. What do you say we'll go down
the lake? Our guest this week is an
incredible artist. We're talking about adoption,
(01:09):
trauma, post traumatic gifts andthen some.
Oh my God, see, I could talk forhours on this my whole journey
and finding my birth family, Like when I saw pictures, family
pictures of my dad's side of thefamily, like there's a family
gathering from like 1977 and there's a kid in there that
would have been my age at that same time.
(01:30):
And I'm like, oh man, that that's like the now this is what
I'm about to say isn't negative,but I'm like, that's the dirtbag
version of me. That's the me that I always
secretly wanted to be. I feel like my adoptive family
was the Ned Flanders Lutheran goody 2 shoes in a way.
And then when I everything I'm finding out about my dad's side
(01:51):
of the family, they were the rebels.
I love it, I love his art so much and he's also a comedian.
And so here are some examples oftaking your pain and play with
it. Hope you enjoy this episode and
we'll see you on the other side.Welcome to Traumedy.
(02:15):
My guest this week is a comedianand an amazing artist.
Please welcome Jeff Cohn. Oh.
Thank you. And or Cohen, Yeah.
Cohn or Cohen? See.
How I step on let me do it again.
I I want to do it again because I stepped on you saying hello
and I and I thought. That sounded great that whole
time. No, that that's what I love
(02:35):
about podcasts is it's free form.
OK, I like. It when people talk over, you
know, or they we correct each other and I'm a people pleaser
and I do that 80,000 times a day.
OK, we're leaving all this then.Yeah, absolutely.
You are a people pleaser. So you and I might have a
similar disease called codependency.
Yeah, I mean, I've heard that. I've diagnosed myself and I am.
(02:58):
I did spend three years in a recovery program for
codependency and it was so helpful.
And now I'm not done. It's just that I switched to a
different program for adult children.
Anyway, I'm still I'm still working some some programs and
so anyway, people pleasing artist.
I want to tell you this, you arepleasing me with your art for
sure. I mean, I can't now I got to
(03:21):
tell you my favorite artist of course is Vincent van Gogh.
I love Van Gogh. I just loved him ever since I
was a little kid. It just it's excited me to see
his art. I just felt captivated by it and
your art, I'm going to tell you man has a similar.
It excites me because there's somuch emotion behind it and
there's but and it's like this beauty and you can feel like
(03:43):
this. Wow, what's between the deep
emotion and the beauty? I see There's so much depth
there. I just gotta tell you, I love
it. I love it.
Thank you so much. Everybody, do you have a website
with that on there that people could just instantly go see it?
Actually, I just, you know, I, Ido, but it, it's like a very
old, outdated website. WordPress 2000.
(04:04):
Yeah, it, well, it's jefftheartist.wordpress.com and
and you're free to, you know, goon there.
There's I have a whole collection of stuff, but it's I
think the newest thing is from like 10 years ago.
But but like if you want to see,I post my current stuff a lot on
my Instagram. What is it at Jeff Cohn, stand
up. Jeff Cohn, stand up.
(04:25):
That's where they find your art and your stand.
Up and clips and promo for the comedy too.
But we were just talking about your name and the spelling of
it. And I know normally I Add all
this at the end, but there's a part of me that wants people to
look at your art while we're talking because I think it gives
you such a context. And so your name is spelled
KOEHN. And we were just saying like,
(04:46):
it's technically Kohn, but if you're German it's Kuhn, and if
you're Irish. Keen some and some people have
even said it should be pronounced Kane.
I've heard that a couple times. I remember when, when I was in
when I was about 5 years old, wedid like, I don't know if you
did this when you were a kid, vacation Bible school, you know,
(05:10):
And it was, but it was in our neighborhood.
So I wasn't like sent off to camp.
It was just like a for two hoursin the afternoon.
And I remember we were sitting in this little classroom and
they were doing roll call and they're going Johnson, Bob
Johnson, Jeff Kane, Jeff Kane, Jeff Kane, Jeff Kane.
And I'm like, oh, that kid has aname similar to mine.
(05:32):
It like it. Was just.
Why would this? Because the E is AI?
Guess ES can have different. Yeah, it's.
Well I was told that the E replaces the umlaut and so it
would be Kohn in German, but so anyway, isn't somebody finally
tapped me on the shoulder. No, she means you and I go, Oh
no, it's Kohn. OK, so then but.
(05:55):
And then people often say, Cohen, Yeah, you know, it get it
gives you variety of like, you can say you're Jewish or you
could be German, you could be, Idon't know.
Well, actually I, I delved into on theancestry.com, I have found
some family members on there. But then you can look at your
(06:15):
ethnic breakdown and I found outthat it would be, let's see, on
my mother's side, great, great, great grandfather was Jewish.
So I have a little bit. Oh, cool.
What is that about an 8th or 116th Jewish or something?
Yeah, so it's just a tiny circumcision.
One of my friends in comedy, Peter Cohen, actually Jewish.
(06:37):
He said to me when I told him that whole thing, he goes, well,
you know what they say, if you shake a family tree hard enough,
a Jew will pop out. OK, it's a good line.
Yeah. Is it?
Probably. But hey, this is particularly
interesting because you are adopted.
So this is your adoptive family's name, correct?
Yep. So that's why probably even more
(06:57):
interesting to do the deep dive into your DNA just like who am I
and where do I come from? And did you have an open
adoption or did you and? It was no.
It was closed and until last summer, July of 2024, Minnesota
was one of the closed record states.
But they changed the law. And because of that, I found out
(07:18):
who my birth mom is and I even wrote her a letter last August.
I haven't heard anything, but you know, wish me luck.
Maybe she. I think when the circumstances
around why I was put up for adoption, it seems like it could
have been very traumatic for her.
So I kind of get the impression that she doesn't want to open
(07:40):
that door. I.
See and so I understand that. Yeah, you're trying you, you
know, not to take it personally.It doesn't mean.
But it but I do at time, like ofcourse goes in waves.
You know, sometimes it really hits me, this joke that I've got
queued up. You'll, it gives you like a, a
little hint of how it shows up, you know, in my daily life.
(08:01):
You want to play the joke 1st and then and then kind of do the
deeper dive after it. So yeah, let's see if we can see
if it'll it'll play through the through the road caster.
Yes, let me queue this up. Yeah, we're going to listen to
this bit. Here we go.
Oh, my God. But then, like, then I have
(08:21):
abandonment issues with women because I was adopted, and that
affects my dating. So the other night I was out
with this woman. She totally reminded me of my
birth mom because I knew I wouldnot be going home with her.
(08:43):
I love the way you guys responded to that.
In fact, Hey, let's give it up for adoption.
Yeah, that's what my mom said. Oh, my God.
I had a woman come up after the show recently, and she's like,
she's like, you know, I'm an adoptive mother myself, and I
hated those jokes. And I wanted to come up and tell
(09:05):
you, I think you're a real pieceof shit, and I hope you're proud
of yourself. I was like, Mom, Yeah.
And then she stormed off and I was like, wait, guys, I've been
Jeff Cohen, you have been fantastic.
Good liners. And that last part was also a
(09:27):
call back, the whole wait. Oh wait, did I?
Did I fade out the call back? No, no.
No, no, that that was perfect. So like my opener is basically
like, hey guys, I'm Jeff. I'm real awkward.
I'm not really good at hitting on women.
This is my best pick up line. Wait.
And I stick my hand out so. Then that it wraps it up.
Oh. And it bookends it.
Bookends it. Oh, I love it.
(09:48):
I love it, Jeff, it. OK, keep going.
Oh, thanks. No.
Appreciate it. And that that little story at
the end about the woman coming up to me.
Yeah, that really did happen. Oh, shit.
Yeah. I was on one of those rotating
tap shows that Steve Vanderplug books.
Shout out to Steve. Yay.
Steve Vander Pluk we got to get Steve on the podcast, but we do
talk about rotating tap a lot, man.
(10:09):
He's. Not just a great producer,
hilarious comedian, but also just such a like advocate of
comedians. Like he just loves comedy and I
love that. But on the show, he had me
booked and I think I went up either right before or two
before Bob Metals, who just, youknow, he always crushes and, and
I did like 1520 minutes and afterwards this this woman came
(10:34):
up and, and she was like, and you know how when somebody
approaches you, you don't know right away what tone they're
coming at you with. So she goes, Hey, I wanted to
talk to you about some of your jokes, you know, your adoption
material. And I was like.
Your heart's, your heart's kind of like like.
Which way is she going to like Igo?
(10:54):
Yeah, what about it? She goes.
I found it so offensive and I thought she could have said she
could have said funny in that moment, but she's like so
offense and she followed me around.
Oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, You didn't know till the
end of that sentence, right? What, where this was going.
And so you got kind of blindsided by it, and then she
started following you. Oh, she and and I'm like, well,
(11:16):
OK, I mean, this is this is my Iam an adoptee.
I I like to talk about it and work through it.
Well, but you, I have two sons at home that I adopted and Oh my
God, I'm glad they weren't here tonight because they would have
been destroyed. But hearing what you're saying
about adoption and I'm like, butI'm making fun of myself and my
issue. What's the problem?
(11:37):
And I shouldn't have even explained any of that.
She just wanted to like. Well, that's your also your
people pleasing and codependencyand like, I want to fix this and
you can't fix what's She was projecting all kinds of crap on
you. Where?
Oh yeah, just thinking to myself, like I am congratulating
you. I'm adoptive parent.
I am an adoptive parent and my son I know would will love this
(11:59):
material because I'll play it for him and it's perfect.
Like he writes adoption trauma jokes like he's sure he's like
mom, because I'm adopting. He told me this when he was like
11. It was so funny.
He goes mom because I'm adopted.I have abandoned issues and
abandoning issues and he took off like ran that's.
Oh my God. And I was like, and then I used
to do that as a bit. And I would say so if you've
(12:20):
seen him, he's a cute little Nepali guy about this tall, you
know, like I'm still looking forhim because he really did have
attachment issues. And he would put his chin down
and run away from me in public. And I'm yelling his name is
Nepalese name, Peace was. And he's just like, he just
keeps, he dug in a little deeper, you know, because he
just enjoyed his autonomy. Wow.
But good for him also because tohave a sense of self, I mean, I,
(12:44):
for the longest time and I, I still struggle with it, but
there's a very deep dissociativeidentity thing.
And, you know, and, and when I started reading about adoption
issues, there's this book calledThe Primal Wound by Nancy Newton
Varrier. And she talks about how, you
(13:05):
know, when you're an infant or even in utero, you're getting to
know your biological mother in the womb, You know, and then
when that connection is severed,there's a fundamental almost
like on a cellular level, this like tearing apart and part of
you is gone. And what what made me just weep
(13:29):
uncontrollably as soon as I readthis.
She talked about how often timeswhen an adoptee looks in the
mirror, they kind of like fracture.
They disassociate. And it's this very, it was the
first time in my life that somebody put words to a
phenomenon that I had been struggling with, like all my
(13:49):
life, that that ghost identity, like, who am I?
And even right now, when I hear my own voice, I, like, I go off
somewhere like it. Wait, who am I?
Where am I? I?
I'm feel like I'm in another room listening to this voice.
This makes sense. So she in the book described
(14:11):
that and I'm like, and I had lost it.
And because I had never understood that that's a a very
common thing with adoptees. And then she said that and often
times when an adoptee reaches out and even sees a picture of
like their people from their original family, it's it's
(14:33):
almost like something clicks on like within them.
I found I haven't talked to him cuz there's a whole, you know,
sketchy thing. But my biological father through
Ancestry DNAI found him in like 2017.
And when I saw his picture, I, this very strange feeling hit me
(14:55):
of all the sudden, I felt like grounded, like I didn't
necessarily feel, oh, I know whoI am now.
But I felt this sense of like this almost like the trunk of a
tree ran into the ground and andit's almost like my voice got
stronger in that moment, so. Like it's a like connected you
(15:19):
with your life force or your life source.
Life source, yeah. You think about, I mean, that
DNA for millennia. I mean through, through, you
know, through time and. And I I think there's spiritual
gifts that descend through our DNA, if that makes sense.
Totally believe it. Yes, absolutely.
Had that came to me during a therapeutic psychedelic journey
(15:42):
that I was like, oh definitely. We get wisdom in our DNA that it
might be part of the junk DNA orsomething.
We don't know. But definitely it makes sense to
me. And I believe in God, if you
will, but the manifestations of that are so multi layered and
mysterious like that. But I think that's part of the
(16:07):
the torture and frustration and joy of unpacking everything, you
know? Because like, as I sense the
whole theme of this is, it's like, OK, I'm going through this
insanely horrible thing, but outof that, out of coping and
surviving with it, this thing manifests like my need to get up
(16:28):
and express myself in front of an audience.
Feel the connection. That part of me in there can be
understood and impart something,you know, even if it's a silly
joke. It's like it's so funny because
the art thing has really been with me since like 3 years old.
The first memory I have is that I took a coloring book and my,
(16:51):
my Big Brother Randy was kind of, he's two years older, but so
I'm this 3 year old me and you know, I, I would do the usual
thing with coloring books. Just go nuts, you know, And he
said, well, pick, pick your favorite picture.
And I found this, it was like a trolley car.
And he goes, OK, now take your favorite color.
And it was kind of like this amber yellow.
(17:11):
And he goes now, now color it. Now really concentrate and do it
be see if you can do it between the lines.
And so I just like, I wanted to impress my Big Brother, you
know, So I just, I shaded it andthis like technique like came
out of nowhere and he was like, Oh my God, that's so good.
And as a little 3 year old, thatlittle word of encouragement
(17:31):
just sent me down that path of, Oh, I, I want to draw now.
And I kind of, you know. And get that, not just the
praise, but also the excitement.That's amazing that you were
that you were three. That's how, that's how what an
impression it made on you that you it anchored in your body.
But it it's almost as if all that stuff was in there, like
(17:52):
you said, kind of embedded in that linear DNA and then it just
the right ingredients just bringit forth.
And but again, you can also kindof take it for granted because
like some about, I'm sorry if I go all over the place here.
No I love it I this all makes sense to me and it's perfect.
(18:14):
Traumedy of like expressing things and like post traumatic
gifts. Maybe about and so I started
comedy in 2012, but maybe 3-4 years in, I was doing either one
of those indie shows, or maybe it was the open mic at El
Chorito, if you remember that beloved place and a fellow comic
(18:37):
Aaron, who's no longer in the scene, he came up to me and he
goes, hey, man, So and kind of drunkenly he's like, so like,
how come you can just like paintso great, but your comedy is
just kind of it's like, no, don't get me wrong, you've
gotten like kind of better at comedy, but it's you're, you're
an artist, man. Like why are you even doing
(18:58):
comedy? And I'm like, well, OK, dude.
Well, first of all, I love comedy to the core.
I've been a comedy night. I didn't tell him all this, but,
you know, I kind of think I justsaid cough, get out of my way.
No, but I think I explained to him that, well, dude, I've only
been at that time. I'm only four years into comedy.
I've been painting and drawing for 46, however many years at
(19:21):
the time. Yeah, like I'm, I started
drawing at age 3 and now I'm 56.So 53 years of doing that.
Now I'm 13 years in comedy. Like they're they're not at the
same level. Yeah, that's right.
And people don't understand, like here I've been doing comedy
since 1988. I don't think you've even really
(19:43):
started till you're 10 years in.And I do find that 15 is sort of
that I'm, I'm really starting toget my own voice.
I mean, there are people that get here, I know.
But seriously, there are people that kind of have more of a a
voice earlier on. Like there's just certain
people. And I think it's the people that
(20:03):
aren't people pleasers. I got to be honest, I feel like
there's a couple kinds of comics.
I don't know. This is this is way too.
I'll probably cut this out like the neurotic comic, the neurotic
people pleaser and then the the rather narcissistic.
I know more than anyone comic. And honestly, I don't know.
I don't know. But they honestly do tend to
like, I don't care what people think.
(20:24):
I'm going to do what I do. There's also this like, now
there's a lot of comics who are aware that they're on the
spectrum, and that's also an interesting like Lane where it's
all very similar to like, hey, Ido me and that's all I can do.
And I'm not like, you see me if you see me night tonight.
Maybe the content might be similar, but the way I present
(20:45):
it is going to be different. And I mean, actually the content
will be different also. But chameleon, you know, like,
oh, this is what this audience needs and this is what this one
wants. And absolutely this is what this
stage allows me to do. Like sometimes you get on a tiny
stage and you have to, I have tostand there and let my words do
the work. Sometimes I love those those
intimate rooms and the stage is like literally a milk crate.
(21:06):
Yes and for whatever reason, yeah, I let the other version of
me out, which is much more toneddown energy and more 1 linery
and slower and and it works so well and but then at comedy
works, I'm like, hey, what's up?You know, it's like it it
almost, and I'm not even saying that that room demands the
(21:28):
higher level, but maybe I'm justso excited that I just want to
let the lion out of the cage or whatever, you know, because
that's the other thing about people pleasers is that we
stifle and suppress. You know, I learned a phrase
suppression leads to depression and I used to suffer from that.
But like, and then when there's moments where that the dark side
(21:53):
of me, which Oh my God, see, I could talk for hours on this my
whole journey and finding my birth family, like when I saw
pictures, family pictures of my dad's side of the family, like
there's a family gathering from like 1977 and there's a kid in
there that would have been my age at that same time.
And I'm like, oh man, that that's like the now this is what
(22:15):
I'm about to say isn't negative,but I'm like, that's the dirtbag
version of me. That's the me that I always
secretly wanted to be. I feel like my adoptive family
was the Ned Flanders Lutheran Goody 2 shoes in a way.
And then when I everything I'm finding out about my dad's side
of the family, they were the rebels.
And everything in my life has been the fight between those two
(22:38):
versions. Yes, you know.
Yes, the Lutheran and like this in the shadow.
So what's whatever the shadow, the shadow side of the
Lutheran's like their union quote from Carl Jung like to
show someone their shadow is to show them their light.
So I, you know, that's how I justified being an asshole.
(22:59):
That's so great. Like at a roast or something
like, man, you know, I went and watched the roast at the comedy
Denver Comedy Underground the other night and then I went and
did a little guest set last night because I was hanging out
at Comic Sense and I did AI did a joke that I normally would
never do and I was emboldened bythe roast.
Not yeah, yeah. And then it was like.
(23:20):
And it worked in at the I, I, you know, studio, IDK or
whatever in Denver Saturday night.
I did it. It was about this woman that got
caught on fire. You know, it's horrible that
they did that, but at the same time, I couldn't help think
about this 88 year old woman whohad to take her pants off in
public because they were on fire.
And then I was like, I wonder ifshe was thinking this is because
(23:44):
I told so many lies as a child. Oh my God, yeah, the karmic.
Pants on Fire stupid. It's a stupid joke, but it was.
Like but. It got a big love at studio
dude, IDK studio. But then last night this guy
actually was like, no, like, he was like, hey, like, I mean, it
was too soon. It really.
I'm sure. I was like too soon.
(24:04):
It really. It literally was like 2 blocks
from where it happened one week later.
But still, it wasn't about her. It was just about the stupid
idea of your your pants are on fire.
Lie your pants on it. Finally happened OK.
No, but I love, you know, I, I hear a lot of comics will say,
OK, let me run by run this joke by you.
It's so stupid. And they say it and I laugh.
(24:25):
I'm like, no, that is not stupid.
It's simple. And sometimes the genius is in
the simplicity. It was it's I mean, yes, and
there is and it's OK to it's OK too that it's just like
something I might have written as a 7 year old too while we
were her pants were on fire. Did she tell a lie?
Yeah, I mean, but anyway, what was the point of that other than
(24:46):
we were just you're saying, oh, the rebel, the shadow side.
OK, that was Nancy Norton. Like that was sometimes and it's
lately I'm, you know, after my psychedelic trauma therapy, I've
been trying to do all this like just love yourself, you know,
but also making fun of the fact that I have so much self hate
and, you know, shame. So it's, it's that juxtaposition
(25:06):
of like, I'm full of self hate and shame, but would you please
love yourselves and let me do some healing work on you?
And yet that time I was like, well, let me go ahead and let
that part speak and say the little.
But you're saying with your journey finding this like yin
Yang family and then I'm guessing or infer you don't have
to say like but with something your dad, the way your mother
(25:30):
became pregnant with you, there was maybe some big trauma.
It's hard to say. There's what they call your
redacted birth certificate, which is that this is the new
identity with your new parents, and they keep the old one in a
vault somewhere, I guess. And all the names are maybe not
blacked out but taped over something, you know.
(25:53):
And so when I was a little kid growing up and my parents kind
of, it was a weird, I think whenI was very young, they told me
that I was adopted, but I didn'tknow yet what that meant.
And I'm like, oh, I'm OK, that'sinteresting.
Well, then one day when I was about maybe 5 or 6 years old, I
(26:13):
was in like a a little taunting match with my neighbor friend
Todd. And he, he's like your mom's
ugly. I'm like, yeah, your mom is even
uglier. And then he goes, well, oh,
yeah. Well, your mom isn't even your
real mom. And I'm like, what?
And. And because I knew all of a
sudden he's being serious and I go shut up.
You, you don't know nothing. What do you mean?
(26:35):
And he's like, yeah, your mom and dad are not your real
parents. And I ran in crying.
And I'm like, Mom Todd said thatyou're not my real parent, you
know? Wow.
And so she sat me down, my heartand like her and my dad, like,
explained, well, remember how wesaid adopted, you're adopted.
And that that's what that means,that your birth mom, you know,
(26:56):
she couldn't raise you for some reason.
And then we got you. We you, you were chosen.
You're special. Yeah.
And. I'm still not over Todd.
I'm still like you, Todd. I want to push him down.
Anyway, sorry I got I actually have to listen now because Todd,
I'm still mad. Todd, we're going to meet again
someday and we're. Coming for you, Todd.
(27:18):
We're coming for you. No, actually, I'll probably
shake your hand and say, hey, thanks for letting me talk shit
about you on stage because that's that's my benign
retaliation is the state, you know, so in that redacted birth
certificate, you know, it didn'tsay names, but it said the the
birth mom was 18 years old when she had me.
(27:42):
She was a small woman, 5 foot two, grew up Lutheran was
primarily Norwegian and the birth father was 6 foot 3 and
blah blah, blah and 19 at the time.
And so then and they never got married and but.
You it, it doesn't sound like itwas necessarily nefarious like
it was. Oh shit, OK, sorry.
But then when I in 2017, I sent the sample in for the ancestry
(28:08):
DNA to see what I could find. Cause I've been very intensely
searching for my birth mother for since probably around 2002
because I had gone through what,you know, probably 12 years of
very pronounced like spiritual healing kind of progressively
(28:28):
through the 90s. And O2 was kind of the moment
where 'cause I feel like a lot of healing is like layer upon
layer to get you to this point for the next chapter, you know,
things like that. And so I don't think I was ready
to, I didn't, it wasn't even in my conscious awareness that my
repeated cycles in my life were connected to adoption trauma.
(28:54):
You know, so in O2 I called my mom, my adoptive mother Sharon,
and I said, hey mom, I've been doing a lot of soul searching
and I, I, I want to ask you something.
But before I ask, I want you to know that what I'm about to say
is no reflection on you and dad.You will always be my mom and
(29:15):
dad. But I have this missing identity
thing and I I really want to start searching for my birth
parents and to this day I think that really hit them even though
I was telling them that no, no, you're my mom and dad.
But I think. You got the sense that it hurt
them because. Over time I think I got like
(29:38):
little impressions that it mighthave.
Can I just say as a, as an adoptive parent, I just want to
put the, you know, say it. I mean, I have tried to get my
son more interested in his biological family and going back
to Nepal or like spending like let, I think he might have a
full brother in France. And I'm like, let's go, you
(30:01):
want. And he has no interest.
And so I'm like, it's just an everybody's different.
But I just want, you know, as anadoptive parent, and maybe it's
different international adoptionversus, you know, in back in the
day, things were a little different.
Parents were trying to, but anyway, what was I trying to
say? So maybe your mom and dad might
obviously are different than me And but I would just say I would
(30:23):
be so happy for you if you were my son.
I'd be so happy for you to find whatever brings you the most
wholeness and and healing. And I feel like my mom in that
moment did feel that because when I I said, yeah, I, I really
want to find out where I come from, you know, and because it's
an identity thing. And she's like, oh, OK, well,
(30:44):
yeah, you know what? We have all the paperwork from
the original agency that we got you from.
So she mailed me all this stuff from the state of Wisconsin.
And so I found out the current number to call.
They had this thing called the the adoption research search
program or something like that. And so I called up and this
(31:06):
caseworker said, yeah, yeah, OK,well here's how it works.
Send us a check for $18.00 and then we'll then start the
process. So I did, they called me back.
Yep, we got the check. So we're opening the case and
then as soon as we have made contacts or whatever, then we'll
we'll let you know. The very next day, the
caseworker calls me back and says, OK, so I talked to your
(31:29):
mom, like birth mom and well, unfortunately she is not ready
to give written consent to let you know who she is and all that
kind of stuff. And oh, and that hit hard.
And that was about O2 or O3, I think.
And then but Wisconsin remains aclosed record state and to this
(31:54):
day, to this day. Well, and then that she said,
well, so she said no, you know, it sounds like she's going
through a lot. You know, she just reconciled
with her parents and it sounds like she's moving in with them
and there's just a lot going on.So but what you can do, we're
going to close the case for now.But because of the way these
(32:16):
laws are written, you can wait. You have to wait another year
and then you can request again. And then if she says no again,
well, then unfortunately you would have to wait five years
and it's just ridiculous, yes. Abstract too.
And I noticed that in those ensuing years, whenever I would
try to restart the search, they were getting very like just, you
(32:41):
know, why do you think you need to do this is something you
know, don't you respect people'sprivacy in this?
It's this very. So they developed an attitude at
the Research Center. Well, it turns out they've had
that attitude for a long time. I actually watched a court
proceeding where the senator wastrying to overturn those laws,
(33:02):
and so he gave it, got up and made great case for why adoptees
should have full access to everything on who they are.
That's a birthright and we don'thave it.
And and and a physical and a medical need to know if you need
a kidney or do you have, are youpredisposed to certain diseases,
(33:23):
but also really to know who you are.
To know who you are. And they're like, no, not only
do you not get to know who you are, but shame on you for
looking that. How dare you, You know, like
wow, talk about being gas lit. Projected shame.
And and it's well, but then that's a case where the state I
started seeing how how authoritarian people can get in
(33:46):
these agencies. And it makes further made me
understand the the nature of thebeast of politics that people
get this much power and then allof a sudden they're like, well,
you don't get to you. Know I'm the gatekeeper, you
know, because I was hoping I wassitting here thinking, wouldn't
it be great if they had counseling available to you
through that same agency? Because when you reach out, you
(34:10):
know, you somebody needs to let you know, like here, I'm in your
corner. Here's some.
They may say yes. And even if they say yes and you
need support to know, like what if you find out something you
didn't like about your biological mother or father?
And then here's the support you might need.
Or if they reject that and then you're going to, it's going to
trigger your primal, you know, relinquishment.
(34:33):
Yeah. And then.
But they didn't have that. They didn't have any kind of
counseling. See, there should be a therapist
in there somewhere. And I found one, but you know,
separately on my own. Do they specialize in adoption
trauma? So in around that same time, I
found, you know, again, independently that there was and
(34:55):
I think they still exist, but the adoptees in search support
group and I went to it was so trippy.
The first meeting of theirs thatI went to, I walk into the
meeting and I'm looking around the room and I'm like, oh, oh,
I, I know her. I know that guy.
I I've met all these people before.
(35:17):
And then I went around like shaking hands and introducing
myself almost in kind of a yeah,yeah, Remember Me?
We met at the where did we meet?And it turns out I've never met
any of them, but we have that common vibe, like vibe
underneath. Adoption trauma.
That we all felt like mysticallyconnected.
(35:37):
Dude blew me away. I'm getting goosebumps.
I got to tell you, my son and I don't know how, when he was in
grade school, he gravitated towards the two adopted kids in
his class and they don't look different like he did.
Like he has the Nepali, you know, he, he obviously is like,
OK, you're, you got a white mom and you're Nepali.
But these were white kids adopted by white people.
(35:59):
And I'm not kidding. It was like, I was like, that's
interesting. He's gravitated to the two
adopted kids. Wow.
They recognize each other. Yeah.
And you recognize all these people.
You're like, I know you, but I don't know you.
This is why I think that in thisshell, underneath it, we are
spirit. We are.
And that Spirit Connect has connections.
(36:20):
I think we cover it up because, I mean, it's very hypersensitive
and I know I'm probably soundingall New Agey and whatever.
You are in the right place. We are right here in the
epicenter of Bolder I. Forgot it's bolder and.
Every and no, but there's a hugespiritual component to this
podcast because of my sense of spirituality and I talk about
(36:40):
truth chills. I just got truth chills when you
said that, which is my spirit sign that yes, he's speaking
truth that there's like there's this sole agreement and we don't
know how and why. You know, doesn't it doesn't
negate that you went through pain or and it's not a way of
spiritual bypassing. It's just saying, OK, there's
something in my soul that chose this challenge in my life this
(37:04):
time, this pain, this pain of separation and this wanting in
this longing. And then here you are creating
this amazing art that just takesme.
Like I feel like I feel known inyour art.
Like there's some part of me even though.
God, that, that, that's another amazing thing is that I don't
know if this was conscious, but then I kind of learned a little
(37:24):
later about intentionality. And so like, anyway, back in
2014, I took a comedy writing class which had a component of
Landmark. If you've ever heard of that
landmark. Yeah, I've.
Heard of it and I never did landmark.
And, and I wouldn't do it. It's not for me.
I think that people that I met that were really into it, I
(37:45):
mean, it was beautifully transformative for them.
But I'm like that's it's just, that's just too much because
it's very, very boot camp ish. You go in on a Friday night and
you don't come out until Sunday afternoon.
So it's got some brainwashing elements of like, we're going to
tear you down and then build youback up.
Build the new person. Yes, OK.
And but, and I think that can beuseful, but the kind of traumas
(38:08):
that I've been through that would send me into a psych ward
like, yeah, yeah, which I had been in one before.
That's a whole different story. Yeah, but because is it related
to the adoption trauma or dissociation or something?
Very indirectly. Let's see if I can give you the
very succinct. And if you don't want to, you
(38:28):
can just say, hey, let's, let's have you back.
I do love to talk about it, but that is such a deep, involved
story that that event completely.
All right, I'm going to say I'm going to do a plug for the, the,
the, the, the hero's journey. If you read any of those classic
(38:49):
books that talk about the hero'sjourney, there is this kind of
step that there's this progression that happens in all
of those. And so we meet the hero, but the
hero doesn't know he's a hero. He's in his little Garden of
Eden, kind of in the womb, so tospeak.
And then through some type of message, his calling arrives in
(39:14):
the mailbox. Let's say, you know, and he
looks at it and he's kind of like what?
No, not like Moses, like what me.
No, I'm, I'm not the guy for that.
Get get the strong hero. I'm just this weird, awkward,
whatever, you know, But it's like, Nope, you're this is your
calling. And then what it says next is
(39:35):
that there has to be an event that launches the hero out of
the comfort zone and he starts the pursuit down the path of the
journey, while the first character that he meets is
called the Threshold Guardian. And that guardian is a villain
(39:55):
or seems to be a villain. So in 1988, it's like I got to
tell this story now. OK, cliffhanger, we have got to
pause this episode. I'm not great with time
management in general, but when the stories are really good, I
(40:17):
This went long and I was late for my Scrabble engagement.
And I want to apologize to Catherine Shea, who's another
median here in Boulder, Co. She probably doesn't even want
me to mention her name, but I feel bad I kept her waiting like
15 minutes to play Scrabble. So that's why we have a Part 2.
So TuneIn next week and we'll hear about the Hero Bureau's
journey and all the all the things that led to another part
(40:42):
of Jeff's life which I didn't know.
He's also a musician, so there is a fascinating story that led
him on the path to honor is calling to also be a musician.
So there's a lot of post traumatic gifts here or maybe
just gifts, you know, maybe they're not all post traumatic.
We've talked about this on the podcast before.
(41:02):
We don't know. Is it post is it is it is that
already there? And then this brought it out.
It's hard to say, but whatever it is, having an expression for
one's pain, having an expressionfor one's feelings in general,
whether it's pain or joy, I justthink is is incredible.
(41:23):
And one of the things Jeff said on this episode, suppression
leads to depression. So I really encourage you to let
it out. You know, whether it's
expressing an emotion or a gas pain, as a nurse, I'm going to
tell you, don't hold that in. I mean, find the right time and
place to release it. But yeah, like my grandma said,
(41:45):
better out than in. And I think that goes for art as
well. And my grandmother was an
artist, My father was an artist.And I really appreciate artists.
OK, we're going to leave it there.
I want to thank my guest, Jeff Cone.
Go check out his art if you haven't already.
And TuneIn next week for the Part 2, which is longer than
(42:07):
Part 1 actually. So it's the this might be the
prequel actually is what this should be called.
That's the episode. And this is the prequel to the
episode. So thanks for tuning in.
Thank you for sharing this beingon this journey of Co healing,
peer-to-peer sharing. And I appreciate you as the
listener and sometimes guest. TuneIn on Tuesdays or Wednesdays
(42:31):
or Thursday, Friday, Saturday orSunday OK Monday is also fine.
No matter what, keep laughing.
You're listening to Trauma D, the podcast that helps you take
your pain and play with it. I'm Nancy Norton.
I'm a comedian and a former nurse and a keynote speaker
about the power of humor, why weneeded, how it helps us, and I
am what? I'm a podcaster.
I guess it's obvious this is a podcast.
(00:26):
And what are we in a pod? Where did this whole pod thing
take off anyway? OK, upcoming comedy shows for
old Nance. I'm going to be in Madison, WI.
Madison and Waterloo, WI June 18th and 19th and then back home
in Boulder, Co at the Southern Sun on June 22nd.
(00:48):
And then and then what happens Then I go back to the Ozarks.
So a little contrast Boulder Ozarks and I'll be in Branson,
MO June 26th through the 28th. So come out and then let's go
water skiing. What do you say we'll go down
the lake? Our guest this week is an
incredible artist. We're talking about adoption,
(01:09):
trauma, post traumatic gifts andthen some.
Oh my God, see, I could talk forhours on this my whole journey
and finding my birth family, Like when I saw pictures, family
pictures of my dad's side of thefamily, like there's a family
gathering from like 1977 and there's a kid in there that
would have been my age at that same time.
(01:30):
And I'm like, oh man, that that's like the now this is what
I'm about to say isn't negative,but I'm like, that's the dirtbag
version of me. That's the me that I always
secretly wanted to be. I feel like my adoptive family
was the Ned Flanders Lutheran goody 2 shoes in a way.
And then when I everything I'm finding out about my dad's side
(01:51):
of the family, they were the rebels.
I love it, I love his art so much and he's also a comedian.
And so here are some examples oftaking your pain and play with
it. Hope you enjoy this episode and
we'll see you on the other side.Welcome to Traumedy.
(02:15):
My guest this week is a comedianand an amazing artist.
Please welcome Jeff Cohn. Oh.
Thank you. And or Cohen, Yeah.
Cohn or Cohen? See.
How I step on let me do it again.
I I want to do it again because I stepped on you saying hello
and I and I thought. That sounded great that whole
time. No, that that's what I love
(02:35):
about podcasts is it's free form.
OK, I like. It when people talk over, you
know, or they we correct each other and I'm a people pleaser
and I do that 80,000 times a day.
OK, we're leaving all this then.Yeah, absolutely.
You are a people pleaser. So you and I might have a
similar disease called codependency.
Yeah, I mean, I've heard that. I've diagnosed myself and I am.
(02:58):
I did spend three years in a recovery program for
codependency and it was so helpful.
And now I'm not done. It's just that I switched to a
different program for adult children.
Anyway, I'm still I'm still working some some programs and
so anyway, people pleasing artist.
I want to tell you this, you arepleasing me with your art for
sure. I mean, I can't now I got to
(03:21):
tell you my favorite artist of course is Vincent van Gogh.
I love Van Gogh. I just loved him ever since I
was a little kid. It just it's excited me to see
his art. I just felt captivated by it and
your art, I'm going to tell you man has a similar.
It excites me because there's somuch emotion behind it and
there's but and it's like this beauty and you can feel like
(03:43):
this. Wow, what's between the deep
emotion and the beauty? I see There's so much depth
there. I just gotta tell you, I love
it. I love it.
Thank you so much. Everybody, do you have a website
with that on there that people could just instantly go see it?
Actually, I just, you know, I, Ido, but it, it's like a very
old, outdated website. WordPress 2000.
(04:04):
Yeah, it, well, it's jefftheartist.wordpress.com and
and you're free to, you know, goon there.
There's I have a whole collection of stuff, but it's I
think the newest thing is from like 10 years ago.
But but like if you want to see,I post my current stuff a lot on
my Instagram. What is it at Jeff Cohn, stand
up. Jeff Cohn, stand up.
(04:25):
That's where they find your art and your stand.
Up and clips and promo for the comedy too.
But we were just talking about your name and the spelling of
it. And I know normally I Add all
this at the end, but there's a part of me that wants people to
look at your art while we're talking because I think it gives
you such a context. And so your name is spelled
KOEHN. And we were just saying like,
(04:46):
it's technically Kohn, but if you're German it's Kuhn, and if
you're Irish. Keen some and some people have
even said it should be pronounced Kane.
I've heard that a couple times. I remember when, when I was in
when I was about 5 years old, wedid like, I don't know if you
did this when you were a kid, vacation Bible school, you know,
(05:10):
And it was, but it was in our neighborhood.
So I wasn't like sent off to camp.
It was just like a for two hoursin the afternoon.
And I remember we were sitting in this little classroom and
they were doing roll call and they're going Johnson, Bob
Johnson, Jeff Kane, Jeff Kane, Jeff Kane, Jeff Kane.
And I'm like, oh, that kid has aname similar to mine.
(05:32):
It like it. Was just.
Why would this? Because the E is AI?
Guess ES can have different. Yeah, it's.
Well I was told that the E replaces the umlaut and so it
would be Kohn in German, but so anyway, isn't somebody finally
tapped me on the shoulder. No, she means you and I go, Oh
no, it's Kohn. OK, so then but.
(05:55):
And then people often say, Cohen, Yeah, you know, it get it
gives you variety of like, you can say you're Jewish or you
could be German, you could be, Idon't know.
Well, actually I, I delved into on theancestry.com, I have found
some family members on there. But then you can look at your
(06:15):
ethnic breakdown and I found outthat it would be, let's see, on
my mother's side, great, great, great grandfather was Jewish.
So I have a little bit. Oh, cool.
What is that about an 8th or 116th Jewish or something?
Yeah, so it's just a tiny circumcision.
One of my friends in comedy, Peter Cohen, actually Jewish.
(06:37):
He said to me when I told him that whole thing, he goes, well,
you know what they say, if you shake a family tree hard enough,
a Jew will pop out. OK, it's a good line.
Yeah. Is it?
Probably. But hey, this is particularly
interesting because you are adopted.
So this is your adoptive family's name, correct?
Yep. So that's why probably even more
(06:57):
interesting to do the deep dive into your DNA just like who am I
and where do I come from? And did you have an open
adoption or did you and? It was no.
It was closed and until last summer, July of 2024, Minnesota
was one of the closed record states.
But they changed the law. And because of that, I found out
(07:18):
who my birth mom is and I even wrote her a letter last August.
I haven't heard anything, but you know, wish me luck.
Maybe she. I think when the circumstances
around why I was put up for adoption, it seems like it could
have been very traumatic for her.
So I kind of get the impression that she doesn't want to open
(07:40):
that door. I.
See and so I understand that. Yeah, you're trying you, you
know, not to take it personally.It doesn't mean.
But it but I do at time, like ofcourse goes in waves.
You know, sometimes it really hits me, this joke that I've got
queued up. You'll, it gives you like a, a
little hint of how it shows up, you know, in my daily life.
(08:01):
You want to play the joke 1st and then and then kind of do the
deeper dive after it. So yeah, let's see if we can see
if it'll it'll play through the through the road caster.
Yes, let me queue this up. Yeah, we're going to listen to
this bit. Here we go.
Oh, my God. But then, like, then I have
(08:21):
abandonment issues with women because I was adopted, and that
affects my dating. So the other night I was out
with this woman. She totally reminded me of my
birth mom because I knew I wouldnot be going home with her.
(08:43):
I love the way you guys responded to that.
In fact, Hey, let's give it up for adoption.
Yeah, that's what my mom said. Oh, my God.
I had a woman come up after the show recently, and she's like,
she's like, you know, I'm an adoptive mother myself, and I
hated those jokes. And I wanted to come up and tell
(09:05):
you, I think you're a real pieceof shit, and I hope you're proud
of yourself. I was like, Mom, Yeah.
And then she stormed off and I was like, wait, guys, I've been
Jeff Cohen, you have been fantastic.
Good liners. And that last part was also a
(09:27):
call back, the whole wait. Oh wait, did I?
Did I fade out the call back? No, no.
No, no, that that was perfect. So like my opener is basically
like, hey guys, I'm Jeff. I'm real awkward.
I'm not really good at hitting on women.
This is my best pick up line. Wait.
And I stick my hand out so. Then that it wraps it up.
Oh. And it bookends it.
Bookends it. Oh, I love it.
(09:48):
I love it, Jeff, it. OK, keep going.
Oh, thanks. No.
Appreciate it. And that that little story at
the end about the woman coming up to me.
Yeah, that really did happen. Oh, shit.
Yeah. I was on one of those rotating
tap shows that Steve Vanderplug books.
Shout out to Steve. Yay.
Steve Vander Pluk we got to get Steve on the podcast, but we do
talk about rotating tap a lot, man.
(10:09):
He's. Not just a great producer,
hilarious comedian, but also just such a like advocate of
comedians. Like he just loves comedy and I
love that. But on the show, he had me
booked and I think I went up either right before or two
before Bob Metals, who just, youknow, he always crushes and, and
I did like 1520 minutes and afterwards this this woman came
(10:34):
up and, and she was like, and you know how when somebody
approaches you, you don't know right away what tone they're
coming at you with. So she goes, Hey, I wanted to
talk to you about some of your jokes, you know, your adoption
material. And I was like.
Your heart's, your heart's kind of like like.
Which way is she going to like Igo?
(10:54):
Yeah, what about it? She goes.
I found it so offensive and I thought she could have said she
could have said funny in that moment, but she's like so
offense and she followed me around.
Oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, You didn't know till the
end of that sentence, right? What, where this was going.
And so you got kind of blindsided by it, and then she
started following you. Oh, she and and I'm like, well,
(11:16):
OK, I mean, this is this is my Iam an adoptee.
I I like to talk about it and work through it.
Well, but you, I have two sons at home that I adopted and Oh my
God, I'm glad they weren't here tonight because they would have
been destroyed. But hearing what you're saying
about adoption and I'm like, butI'm making fun of myself and my
issue. What's the problem?
(11:37):
And I shouldn't have even explained any of that.
She just wanted to like. Well, that's your also your
people pleasing and codependencyand like, I want to fix this and
you can't fix what's She was projecting all kinds of crap on
you. Where?
Oh yeah, just thinking to myself, like I am congratulating
you. I'm adoptive parent.
I am an adoptive parent and my son I know would will love this
(11:59):
material because I'll play it for him and it's perfect.
Like he writes adoption trauma jokes like he's sure he's like
mom, because I'm adopting. He told me this when he was like
11. It was so funny.
He goes mom because I'm adopted.I have abandoned issues and
abandoning issues and he took off like ran that's.
Oh my God. And I was like, and then I used
to do that as a bit. And I would say so if you've
(12:20):
seen him, he's a cute little Nepali guy about this tall, you
know, like I'm still looking forhim because he really did have
attachment issues. And he would put his chin down
and run away from me in public. And I'm yelling his name is
Nepalese name, Peace was. And he's just like, he just
keeps, he dug in a little deeper, you know, because he
just enjoyed his autonomy. Wow.
But good for him also because tohave a sense of self, I mean, I,
(12:44):
for the longest time and I, I still struggle with it, but
there's a very deep dissociativeidentity thing.
And, you know, and, and when I started reading about adoption
issues, there's this book calledThe Primal Wound by Nancy Newton
Varrier. And she talks about how, you
(13:05):
know, when you're an infant or even in utero, you're getting to
know your biological mother in the womb, You know, and then
when that connection is severed,there's a fundamental almost
like on a cellular level, this like tearing apart and part of
you is gone. And what what made me just weep
(13:29):
uncontrollably as soon as I readthis.
She talked about how often timeswhen an adoptee looks in the
mirror, they kind of like fracture.
They disassociate. And it's this very, it was the
first time in my life that somebody put words to a
phenomenon that I had been struggling with, like all my
(13:49):
life, that that ghost identity, like, who am I?
And even right now, when I hear my own voice, I, like, I go off
somewhere like it. Wait, who am I?
Where am I? I?
I'm feel like I'm in another room listening to this voice.
This makes sense. So she in the book described
(14:11):
that and I'm like, and I had lost it.
And because I had never understood that that's a a very
common thing with adoptees. And then she said that and often
times when an adoptee reaches out and even sees a picture of
like their people from their original family, it's it's
(14:33):
almost like something clicks on like within them.
I found I haven't talked to him cuz there's a whole, you know,
sketchy thing. But my biological father through
Ancestry DNAI found him in like 2017.
And when I saw his picture, I, this very strange feeling hit me
(14:55):
of all the sudden, I felt like grounded, like I didn't
necessarily feel, oh, I know whoI am now.
But I felt this sense of like this almost like the trunk of a
tree ran into the ground and andit's almost like my voice got
stronger in that moment, so. Like it's a like connected you
(15:19):
with your life force or your life source.
Life source, yeah. You think about, I mean, that
DNA for millennia. I mean through, through, you
know, through time and. And I I think there's spiritual
gifts that descend through our DNA, if that makes sense.
Totally believe it. Yes, absolutely.
Had that came to me during a therapeutic psychedelic journey
(15:42):
that I was like, oh definitely. We get wisdom in our DNA that it
might be part of the junk DNA orsomething.
We don't know. But definitely it makes sense to
me. And I believe in God, if you
will, but the manifestations of that are so multi layered and
mysterious like that. But I think that's part of the
(16:07):
the torture and frustration and joy of unpacking everything, you
know? Because like, as I sense the
whole theme of this is, it's like, OK, I'm going through this
insanely horrible thing, but outof that, out of coping and
surviving with it, this thing manifests like my need to get up
(16:28):
and express myself in front of an audience.
Feel the connection. That part of me in there can be
understood and impart something,you know, even if it's a silly
joke. It's like it's so funny because
the art thing has really been with me since like 3 years old.
The first memory I have is that I took a coloring book and my,
(16:51):
my Big Brother Randy was kind of, he's two years older, but so
I'm this 3 year old me and you know, I, I would do the usual
thing with coloring books. Just go nuts, you know, And he
said, well, pick, pick your favorite picture.
And I found this, it was like a trolley car.
And he goes, OK, now take your favorite color.
And it was kind of like this amber yellow.
(17:11):
And he goes now, now color it. Now really concentrate and do it
be see if you can do it between the lines.
And so I just like, I wanted to impress my Big Brother, you
know, So I just, I shaded it andthis like technique like came
out of nowhere and he was like, Oh my God, that's so good.
And as a little 3 year old, thatlittle word of encouragement
(17:31):
just sent me down that path of, Oh, I, I want to draw now.
And I kind of, you know. And get that, not just the
praise, but also the excitement.That's amazing that you were
that you were three. That's how, that's how what an
impression it made on you that you it anchored in your body.
But it it's almost as if all that stuff was in there, like
(17:52):
you said, kind of embedded in that linear DNA and then it just
the right ingredients just bringit forth.
And but again, you can also kindof take it for granted because
like some about, I'm sorry if I go all over the place here.
No I love it I this all makes sense to me and it's perfect.
(18:14):
Traumedy of like expressing things and like post traumatic
gifts. Maybe about and so I started
comedy in 2012, but maybe 3-4 years in, I was doing either one
of those indie shows, or maybe it was the open mic at El
Chorito, if you remember that beloved place and a fellow comic
(18:37):
Aaron, who's no longer in the scene, he came up to me and he
goes, hey, man, So and kind of drunkenly he's like, so like,
how come you can just like paintso great, but your comedy is
just kind of it's like, no, don't get me wrong, you've
gotten like kind of better at comedy, but it's you're, you're
an artist, man. Like why are you even doing
(18:58):
comedy? And I'm like, well, OK, dude.
Well, first of all, I love comedy to the core.
I've been a comedy night. I didn't tell him all this, but,
you know, I kind of think I justsaid cough, get out of my way.
No, but I think I explained to him that, well, dude, I've only
been at that time. I'm only four years into comedy.
I've been painting and drawing for 46, however many years at
(19:21):
the time. Yeah, like I'm, I started
drawing at age 3 and now I'm 56.So 53 years of doing that.
Now I'm 13 years in comedy. Like they're they're not at the
same level. Yeah, that's right.
And people don't understand, like here I've been doing comedy
since 1988. I don't think you've even really
(19:43):
started till you're 10 years in.And I do find that 15 is sort of
that I'm, I'm really starting toget my own voice.
I mean, there are people that get here, I know.
But seriously, there are people that kind of have more of a a
voice earlier on. Like there's just certain
people. And I think it's the people that
(20:03):
aren't people pleasers. I got to be honest, I feel like
there's a couple kinds of comics.
I don't know. This is this is way too.
I'll probably cut this out like the neurotic comic, the neurotic
people pleaser and then the the rather narcissistic.
I know more than anyone comic. And honestly, I don't know.
I don't know. But they honestly do tend to
like, I don't care what people think.
(20:24):
I'm going to do what I do. There's also this like, now
there's a lot of comics who are aware that they're on the
spectrum, and that's also an interesting like Lane where it's
all very similar to like, hey, Ido me and that's all I can do.
And I'm not like, you see me if you see me night tonight.
Maybe the content might be similar, but the way I present
(20:45):
it is going to be different. And I mean, actually the content
will be different also. But chameleon, you know, like,
oh, this is what this audience needs and this is what this one
wants. And absolutely this is what this
stage allows me to do. Like sometimes you get on a tiny
stage and you have to, I have tostand there and let my words do
the work. Sometimes I love those those
intimate rooms and the stage is like literally a milk crate.
(21:06):
Yes and for whatever reason, yeah, I let the other version of
me out, which is much more toneddown energy and more 1 linery
and slower and and it works so well and but then at comedy
works, I'm like, hey, what's up?You know, it's like it it
almost, and I'm not even saying that that room demands the
(21:28):
higher level, but maybe I'm justso excited that I just want to
let the lion out of the cage or whatever, you know, because
that's the other thing about people pleasers is that we
stifle and suppress. You know, I learned a phrase
suppression leads to depression and I used to suffer from that.
But like, and then when there's moments where that the dark side
(21:53):
of me, which Oh my God, see, I could talk for hours on this my
whole journey and finding my birth family, like when I saw
pictures, family pictures of my dad's side of the family, like
there's a family gathering from like 1977 and there's a kid in
there that would have been my age at that same time.
And I'm like, oh man, that that's like the now this is what
(22:15):
I'm about to say isn't negative,but I'm like, that's the dirtbag
version of me. That's the me that I always
secretly wanted to be. I feel like my adoptive family
was the Ned Flanders Lutheran Goody 2 shoes in a way.
And then when I everything I'm finding out about my dad's side
of the family, they were the rebels.
And everything in my life has been the fight between those two
(22:38):
versions. Yes, you know.
Yes, the Lutheran and like this in the shadow.
So what's whatever the shadow, the shadow side of the
Lutheran's like their union quote from Carl Jung like to
show someone their shadow is to show them their light.
So I, you know, that's how I justified being an asshole.
(22:59):
That's so great. Like at a roast or something
like, man, you know, I went and watched the roast at the comedy
Denver Comedy Underground the other night and then I went and
did a little guest set last night because I was hanging out
at Comic Sense and I did AI did a joke that I normally would
never do and I was emboldened bythe roast.
Not yeah, yeah. And then it was like.
(23:20):
And it worked in at the I, I, you know, studio, IDK or
whatever in Denver Saturday night.
I did it. It was about this woman that got
caught on fire. You know, it's horrible that
they did that, but at the same time, I couldn't help think
about this 88 year old woman whohad to take her pants off in
public because they were on fire.
And then I was like, I wonder ifshe was thinking this is because
(23:44):
I told so many lies as a child. Oh my God, yeah, the karmic.
Pants on Fire stupid. It's a stupid joke, but it was.
Like but. It got a big love at studio
dude, IDK studio. But then last night this guy
actually was like, no, like, he was like, hey, like, I mean, it
was too soon. It really.
I'm sure. I was like too soon.
(24:04):
It really. It literally was like 2 blocks
from where it happened one week later.
But still, it wasn't about her. It was just about the stupid
idea of your your pants are on fire.
Lie your pants on it. Finally happened OK.
No, but I love, you know, I, I hear a lot of comics will say,
OK, let me run by run this joke by you.
It's so stupid. And they say it and I laugh.
(24:25):
I'm like, no, that is not stupid.
It's simple. And sometimes the genius is in
the simplicity. It was it's I mean, yes, and
there is and it's OK to it's OK too that it's just like
something I might have written as a 7 year old too while we
were her pants were on fire. Did she tell a lie?
Yeah, I mean, but anyway, what was the point of that other than
(24:46):
we were just you're saying, oh, the rebel, the shadow side.
OK, that was Nancy Norton. Like that was sometimes and it's
lately I'm, you know, after my psychedelic trauma therapy, I've
been trying to do all this like just love yourself, you know,
but also making fun of the fact that I have so much self hate
and, you know, shame. So it's, it's that juxtaposition
(25:06):
of like, I'm full of self hate and shame, but would you please
love yourselves and let me do some healing work on you?
And yet that time I was like, well, let me go ahead and let
that part speak and say the little.
But you're saying with your journey finding this like yin
Yang family and then I'm guessing or infer you don't have
to say like but with something your dad, the way your mother
(25:30):
became pregnant with you, there was maybe some big trauma.
It's hard to say. There's what they call your
redacted birth certificate, which is that this is the new
identity with your new parents, and they keep the old one in a
vault somewhere, I guess. And all the names are maybe not
blacked out but taped over something, you know.
(25:53):
And so when I was a little kid growing up and my parents kind
of, it was a weird, I think whenI was very young, they told me
that I was adopted, but I didn'tknow yet what that meant.
And I'm like, oh, I'm OK, that'sinteresting.
Well, then one day when I was about maybe 5 or 6 years old, I
(26:13):
was in like a a little taunting match with my neighbor friend
Todd. And he, he's like your mom's
ugly. I'm like, yeah, your mom is even
uglier. And then he goes, well, oh,
yeah. Well, your mom isn't even your
real mom. And I'm like, what?
And. And because I knew all of a
sudden he's being serious and I go shut up.
You, you don't know nothing. What do you mean?
(26:35):
And he's like, yeah, your mom and dad are not your real
parents. And I ran in crying.
And I'm like, Mom Todd said thatyou're not my real parent, you
know? Wow.
And so she sat me down, my heartand like her and my dad, like,
explained, well, remember how wesaid adopted, you're adopted.
And that that's what that means,that your birth mom, you know,
(26:56):
she couldn't raise you for some reason.
And then we got you. We you, you were chosen.
You're special. Yeah.
And. I'm still not over Todd.
I'm still like you, Todd. I want to push him down.
Anyway, sorry I got I actually have to listen now because Todd,
I'm still mad. Todd, we're going to meet again
someday and we're. Coming for you, Todd.
(27:18):
We're coming for you. No, actually, I'll probably
shake your hand and say, hey, thanks for letting me talk shit
about you on stage because that's that's my benign
retaliation is the state, you know, so in that redacted birth
certificate, you know, it didn'tsay names, but it said the the
birth mom was 18 years old when she had me.
(27:42):
She was a small woman, 5 foot two, grew up Lutheran was
primarily Norwegian and the birth father was 6 foot 3 and
blah blah, blah and 19 at the time.
And so then and they never got married and but.
You it, it doesn't sound like itwas necessarily nefarious like
it was. Oh shit, OK, sorry.
But then when I in 2017, I sent the sample in for the ancestry
(28:08):
DNA to see what I could find. Cause I've been very intensely
searching for my birth mother for since probably around 2002
because I had gone through what,you know, probably 12 years of
very pronounced like spiritual healing kind of progressively
(28:28):
through the 90s. And O2 was kind of the moment
where 'cause I feel like a lot of healing is like layer upon
layer to get you to this point for the next chapter, you know,
things like that. And so I don't think I was ready
to, I didn't, it wasn't even in my conscious awareness that my
repeated cycles in my life were connected to adoption trauma.
(28:54):
You know, so in O2 I called my mom, my adoptive mother Sharon,
and I said, hey mom, I've been doing a lot of soul searching
and I, I, I want to ask you something.
But before I ask, I want you to know that what I'm about to say
is no reflection on you and dad.You will always be my mom and
(29:15):
dad. But I have this missing identity
thing and I I really want to start searching for my birth
parents and to this day I think that really hit them even though
I was telling them that no, no, you're my mom and dad.
But I think. You got the sense that it hurt
them because. Over time I think I got like
(29:38):
little impressions that it mighthave.
Can I just say as a, as an adoptive parent, I just want to
put the, you know, say it. I mean, I have tried to get my
son more interested in his biological family and going back
to Nepal or like spending like let, I think he might have a
full brother in France. And I'm like, let's go, you
(30:01):
want. And he has no interest.
And so I'm like, it's just an everybody's different.
But I just want, you know, as anadoptive parent, and maybe it's
different international adoptionversus, you know, in back in the
day, things were a little different.
Parents were trying to, but anyway, what was I trying to
say? So maybe your mom and dad might
obviously are different than me And but I would just say I would
(30:23):
be so happy for you if you were my son.
I'd be so happy for you to find whatever brings you the most
wholeness and and healing. And I feel like my mom in that
moment did feel that because when I I said, yeah, I, I really
want to find out where I come from, you know, and because it's
an identity thing. And she's like, oh, OK, well,
(30:44):
yeah, you know what? We have all the paperwork from
the original agency that we got you from.
So she mailed me all this stuff from the state of Wisconsin.
And so I found out the current number to call.
They had this thing called the the adoption research search
program or something like that. And so I called up and this
(31:06):
caseworker said, yeah, yeah, OK,well here's how it works.
Send us a check for $18.00 and then we'll then start the
process. So I did, they called me back.
Yep, we got the check. So we're opening the case and
then as soon as we have made contacts or whatever, then we'll
we'll let you know. The very next day, the
caseworker calls me back and says, OK, so I talked to your
(31:29):
mom, like birth mom and well, unfortunately she is not ready
to give written consent to let you know who she is and all that
kind of stuff. And oh, and that hit hard.
And that was about O2 or O3, I think.
And then but Wisconsin remains aclosed record state and to this
(31:54):
day, to this day. Well, and then that she said,
well, so she said no, you know, it sounds like she's going
through a lot. You know, she just reconciled
with her parents and it sounds like she's moving in with them
and there's just a lot going on.So but what you can do, we're
going to close the case for now.But because of the way these
(32:16):
laws are written, you can wait. You have to wait another year
and then you can request again. And then if she says no again,
well, then unfortunately you would have to wait five years
and it's just ridiculous, yes. Abstract too.
And I noticed that in those ensuing years, whenever I would
try to restart the search, they were getting very like just, you
(32:41):
know, why do you think you need to do this is something you
know, don't you respect people'sprivacy in this?
It's this very. So they developed an attitude at
the Research Center. Well, it turns out they've had
that attitude for a long time. I actually watched a court
proceeding where the senator wastrying to overturn those laws,
(33:02):
and so he gave it, got up and made great case for why adoptees
should have full access to everything on who they are.
That's a birthright and we don'thave it.
And and and a physical and a medical need to know if you need
a kidney or do you have, are youpredisposed to certain diseases,
(33:23):
but also really to know who you are.
To know who you are. And they're like, no, not only
do you not get to know who you are, but shame on you for
looking that. How dare you, You know, like
wow, talk about being gas lit. Projected shame.
And and it's well, but then that's a case where the state I
started seeing how how authoritarian people can get in
(33:46):
these agencies. And it makes further made me
understand the the nature of thebeast of politics that people
get this much power and then allof a sudden they're like, well,
you don't get to you. Know I'm the gatekeeper, you
know, because I was hoping I wassitting here thinking, wouldn't
it be great if they had counseling available to you
through that same agency? Because when you reach out, you
(34:10):
know, you somebody needs to let you know, like here, I'm in your
corner. Here's some.
They may say yes. And even if they say yes and you
need support to know, like what if you find out something you
didn't like about your biological mother or father?
And then here's the support you might need.
Or if they reject that and then you're going to, it's going to
trigger your primal, you know, relinquishment.
(34:33):
Yeah. And then.
But they didn't have that. They didn't have any kind of
counseling. See, there should be a therapist
in there somewhere. And I found one, but you know,
separately on my own. Do they specialize in adoption
trauma? So in around that same time, I
found, you know, again, independently that there was and
(34:55):
I think they still exist, but the adoptees in search support
group and I went to it was so trippy.
The first meeting of theirs thatI went to, I walk into the
meeting and I'm looking around the room and I'm like, oh, oh,
I, I know her. I know that guy.
I I've met all these people before.
(35:17):
And then I went around like shaking hands and introducing
myself almost in kind of a yeah,yeah, Remember Me?
We met at the where did we meet?And it turns out I've never met
any of them, but we have that common vibe, like vibe
underneath. Adoption trauma.
That we all felt like mysticallyconnected.
(35:37):
Dude blew me away. I'm getting goosebumps.
I got to tell you, my son and I don't know how, when he was in
grade school, he gravitated towards the two adopted kids in
his class and they don't look different like he did.
Like he has the Nepali, you know, he, he obviously is like,
OK, you're, you got a white mom and you're Nepali.
But these were white kids adopted by white people.
(35:59):
And I'm not kidding. It was like, I was like, that's
interesting. He's gravitated to the two
adopted kids. Wow.
They recognize each other. Yeah.
And you recognize all these people.
You're like, I know you, but I don't know you.
This is why I think that in thisshell, underneath it, we are
spirit. We are.
And that Spirit Connect has connections.
(36:20):
I think we cover it up because, I mean, it's very hypersensitive
and I know I'm probably soundingall New Agey and whatever.
You are in the right place. We are right here in the
epicenter of Bolder I. Forgot it's bolder and.
Every and no, but there's a hugespiritual component to this
podcast because of my sense of spirituality and I talk about
(36:40):
truth chills. I just got truth chills when you
said that, which is my spirit sign that yes, he's speaking
truth that there's like there's this sole agreement and we don't
know how and why. You know, doesn't it doesn't
negate that you went through pain or and it's not a way of
spiritual bypassing. It's just saying, OK, there's
something in my soul that chose this challenge in my life this
(37:04):
time, this pain, this pain of separation and this wanting in
this longing. And then here you are creating
this amazing art that just takesme.
Like I feel like I feel known inyour art.
Like there's some part of me even though.
God, that, that, that's another amazing thing is that I don't
know if this was conscious, but then I kind of learned a little
(37:24):
later about intentionality. And so like, anyway, back in
2014, I took a comedy writing class which had a component of
Landmark. If you've ever heard of that
landmark. Yeah, I've.
Heard of it and I never did landmark.
And, and I wouldn't do it. It's not for me.
I think that people that I met that were really into it, I
(37:45):
mean, it was beautifully transformative for them.
But I'm like that's it's just, that's just too much because
it's very, very boot camp ish. You go in on a Friday night and
you don't come out until Sunday afternoon.
So it's got some brainwashing elements of like, we're going to
tear you down and then build youback up.
Build the new person. Yes, OK.
And but, and I think that can beuseful, but the kind of traumas
(38:08):
that I've been through that would send me into a psych ward
like, yeah, yeah, which I had been in one before.
That's a whole different story. Yeah, but because is it related
to the adoption trauma or dissociation or something?
Very indirectly. Let's see if I can give you the
very succinct. And if you don't want to, you
(38:28):
can just say, hey, let's, let's have you back.
I do love to talk about it, but that is such a deep, involved
story that that event completely.
All right, I'm going to say I'm going to do a plug for the, the,
the, the, the hero's journey. If you read any of those classic
(38:49):
books that talk about the hero'sjourney, there is this kind of
step that there's this progression that happens in all
of those. And so we meet the hero, but the
hero doesn't know he's a hero. He's in his little Garden of
Eden, kind of in the womb, so tospeak.
And then through some type of message, his calling arrives in
(39:14):
the mailbox. Let's say, you know, and he
looks at it and he's kind of like what?
No, not like Moses, like what me.
No, I'm, I'm not the guy for that.
Get get the strong hero. I'm just this weird, awkward,
whatever, you know, But it's like, Nope, you're this is your
calling. And then what it says next is
(39:35):
that there has to be an event that launches the hero out of
the comfort zone and he starts the pursuit down the path of the
journey, while the first character that he meets is
called the Threshold Guardian. And that guardian is a villain
(39:55):
or seems to be a villain. So in 1988, it's like I got to
tell this story now. OK, cliffhanger, we have got to
pause this episode. I'm not great with time
management in general, but when the stories are really good, I
(40:17):
This went long and I was late for my Scrabble engagement.
And I want to apologize to Catherine Shea, who's another
median here in Boulder, Co. She probably doesn't even want
me to mention her name, but I feel bad I kept her waiting like
15 minutes to play Scrabble. So that's why we have a Part 2.
So TuneIn next week and we'll hear about the Hero Bureau's
journey and all the all the things that led to another part
(40:42):
of Jeff's life which I didn't know.
He's also a musician, so there is a fascinating story that led
him on the path to honor is calling to also be a musician.
So there's a lot of post traumatic gifts here or maybe
just gifts, you know, maybe they're not all post traumatic.
We've talked about this on the podcast before.
(41:02):
We don't know. Is it post is it is it is that
already there? And then this brought it out.
It's hard to say, but whatever it is, having an expression for
one's pain, having an expressionfor one's feelings in general,
whether it's pain or joy, I justthink is is incredible.
(41:23):
And one of the things Jeff said on this episode, suppression
leads to depression. So I really encourage you to let
it out. You know, whether it's
expressing an emotion or a gas pain, as a nurse, I'm going to
tell you, don't hold that in. I mean, find the right time and
place to release it. But yeah, like my grandma said,
(41:45):
better out than in. And I think that goes for art as
well. And my grandmother was an
artist, My father was an artist.And I really appreciate artists.
OK, we're going to leave it there.
I want to thank my guest, Jeff Cone.
Go check out his art if you haven't already.
And TuneIn next week for the Part 2, which is longer than
(42:07):
Part 1 actually. So it's the this might be the
prequel actually is what this should be called.
That's the episode. And this is the prequel to the
episode. So thanks for tuning in.
Thank you for sharing this beingon this journey of Co healing,
peer-to-peer sharing. And I appreciate you as the
listener and sometimes guest. TuneIn on Tuesdays or Wednesdays
(42:31):
or Thursday, Friday, Saturday orSunday OK Monday is also fine.
No matter what, keep laughing.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com