S3 E22- Jeff Koehn - Part 2 - Surrender the Agenda

S3 E22- Jeff Koehn - Part 2 - Surrender the Agenda - Sometimes the derailment puts you on the right track... Jeff shares how he got lost on his way as a young spiritual seeker and wound up getting to a much better place. Like the classic Heroes Journey.... in retrospect sometimes you realize your perceived enemy may have actually helped you shed old beliefs and moved you out of your comfort zone so you could fulfill your purpose.

Reach out: https://www.nancynorton.tv/

Check out Jeff Koehn's Art and standup:

https://www.instagram.com/jeffkoehnstandup

Learn about the archetypes on the Heroes Journey:

https://www.jcf.org/learn/joseph-campbell-heros-journey

Who is the threshold guardian on your Heroe's Journey?

Support with Suicidal thoughts: https://988lifeline.org/

Checkout the Madison Scouts: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMadisonScouts

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
You're listening to Trauma D, the podcast that helps you take
your pain and play with it. I'm Nancy Norton, I am a
comedian. I'm a registered nurse, and I
also studied therapeutic humor and we need it.
I'm telling you right now, people don't believe it, but it
can actually save your life to laugh.

(00:24):
Yes. It gives you perspective, gives
you serotonin, bonds you with people, ah, shifts energy.
So many good things. Anywho, this episode is Part 2
with Jeff Cohn. Jeff Cohn is an artist, he's a
comedian, he's a musician. And I would recommend listening
to Part 1 first because there's some background there.

(00:47):
And he is sharing about a severeepisode that felt like a major
set back that turned out to be aserendipity.
There's a lot of talk about the Bible and meaning.
And I'm not a religious person. I'm going to be honest.
I was raised Christian and Lutheran, sort of.

(01:10):
I mean, we sort of went to church, but so many ways to get
spiritual awakening or whatever that is to get through it.
And if you're not spiritual at all, that's OK too.
A friend of mine who I helped through the dying process, David
Gray, also went by Deacon Gray. He was a comedian and he just

(01:31):
said creativity is my God, whichmakes sense because the creator
creating I and I feel like when I'm creating, I am one with the
creator so that I get that anyway, Hey, whatever gets you
there. The whole point of trauma D is
to not get stuck, to not let traumas, challenges, stresses
take you down into that powerlessness and helplessness.

(01:55):
And I love that that Jeff talks about depression.
I I don't suffer from those depressive episodes anymore,
hardly ever. And when they start sneaking up,
I know what to do in my mind to kind of get down to the root and
then unravel it. And so I hope you enjoyed this
episode. Hey, if you want to come to a

(02:16):
comedy show with old Nance, oh, Nance is going to the Ozarks.
That's right. Back to the roots, back to the
homeland, the Branson Comedy Factory in Branson columns.
And that is this week, June 26thto the 28th.
And then I'm going to go down tomy dad's fishing cabin, my

(02:38):
family fishing cabin, and maybe do a little boating, a little
riding, a little walking in the woods.
Try not to get chiggers and I may connect with a long lost
cousin who found me through one of my reels.
If you haven't seen my reels, I've got a dry bar comedy
special out there and I have an open bar comedy special Yin Yang

(03:01):
of Old Nance. I got the the clean kind of My
dry bar special is called Super Dork and my open bar special is
called Sipping Whiskey and Talking Dirty.
It's all part of me. And hey, but the one that went
kind of viral is talking about in Alabama, they had outlawed
pleasure penetrating devices. Henceforth they're known as deal

(03:23):
dotes deal do not deal better not.
And that whole bit was getting shared around quite a bit.
And I guess one of my cousins liked it and started sharing it
with her friends and shared it with her sister who said, hey,
you know, that's our cousin. And I found my long lost cousin
and I'm so excited 'cause we have a lot in common and I'm
looking forward to hearing more stories.

(03:45):
Oh, you know how to find my comedy shows.
If you ever want to go to 1nancynorton.tv, that's Nancy
Norton. That's my website.
nancynorton.tv. Like television and that'll take
you to comedy shows and comedy specials and other stuff.
All right, have a great week. I'll be in the Ozarks.
Enjoy this episode. I'll see you on the other side.

(04:09):
The kind of traumas that I've been through that would send me
into a psych ward, like, yeah, yeah, which I had been in one
before, that's a whole differentstory.
Yeah, but because is it related to the adoption trauma or
dissociation or something? Very indirectly.
Let's see if I can give you the very succinct.

(04:29):
And if you don't want to, you can just say hey.
I do love to talk about it, but that is such a deep, involved
story that that event completely.
All right, I'm going to say I'm going to do a plug for the the
the the hero's journey. If you read any of those classic

(04:50):
books that talk about the hero'sjourney, there is this kind of
step that there's this progression that happens in all
of those. And so we meet the hero, but the
hero doesn't know he's a hero. He's in his little Garden of
Eden, kind of in the womb, so tospeak.
And then through some type of message, his calling arrives in

(05:15):
the mailbox. Let's say, you know, and he
looks at it and he's kind of like what?
No, not like Moses, like what? Me.
No, I'm, I'm, I'm not the guy for that.
Get get the strong hero. I'm just this weird, awkward,
whatever, you know, But it's like, Nope, you're, this is your
calling. And then what it says next is

(05:35):
that there has to be an event that launches the hero out of
the comfort zone and he starts the pursuit down the path of the
journey, while the first character that he meets is
called the Threshold Guardian. And that guardian is a villain

(05:56):
or seems to be a villain. So in 1988, it's like I got to
tell this story now. So I, I had this best friend in
high school and you know, we in a way, you know, when you vibe
with someone, you, you kind of fall into a comfort zone in that
friendship. But somewhere in there, he

(06:18):
started hanging out with this other person who would become
the threshold guardian. And this person I knew from even
way back because we all went to school together, very small town
Wisconsin. This other person I always
stayed away from because something was like very off, you

(06:38):
know, I I would now label it some type of narcissistic
sociopath type. Yes, you knew He, he.
Always manipulating and screwingwith people and trying to
control and, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Well, he started hanging around with that guy and he said, oh,
no, no, you, you, you got them all wrong.

(06:58):
He's really cool actually, that that's just a, a, a mask, you
know, 'cause we all put on social and I started noticing
that my best friend, I'm like, dude, you're sounding different.
You know, this is creeping me out.
He's like, no, no, you, you got it wrong, blah, blah, blah.
And I kind of ignored it. But part of me, the people
pleaser me was like, man, I, I, I admire, I'm envious of that

(07:21):
kind of perceived power that that person has.
So this was all like little planting of seeds in me.
And the other thing, too, is that, you know, ever since I was
a little kid, I was like spiritually seeking.
And my parents weren't Christian, but they took us to
church once in a while. But in.

(07:43):
So they were Lutheran but not. Not really.
I don't even know if Lutheran isthe right label.
Oh. OK, sorry you called yourself
Lutheran earlier, but that was just a generic just.
Kind of a yeah. Generic like.
Wisconsin Lutheran The culture is very.
Lutheran. I got you.
OK. The church that I grew up in
sort of was the United Church ofChrist, which has Lutheran ish

(08:04):
kind of components, you know, and interestingly, very
politically very, very far left.But as a little kid, I never
caught what that pastor was talking about because he'd
mentioned God. But then he would talk about
kind of the very almost like communistic values.
And all of that went right over my head because, you know, five

(08:26):
years old. I'm like, oh wow, look at the
ceiling tile, you know, ADD. So I, I had a a general belief.
I had this neighbor. And and I hope, if I hope I
don't start sounding too like Uber.
I'm Christian, but I'm, I'm not like what you might call a

(08:48):
legalistic condemning kind of Christian, if that makes sense.
Yeah. So like I I have very strong
beliefs due to the experience that I will get to the hero's
journey thing sent me in that direction well.
And, and we're so surrounded nowby these Christian nationalists.
And I mean not surrounded, well surrounded, but you know, it's,

(09:09):
it's up in the power with this administration and the, the, the
I call it the pseudo Christians that.
Well, it's very pseudo Christian, I think because and
I, I, I, I've met, I know a lot of people and I think some are
very genuinely have the faith, but they just haven't examined
where it doesn't actually fit, you know, because like, you

(09:33):
know, Jesus basically said, Hey,you know, believe in me and you
have, well, this gets I've studied the Greek words behind.
So he said people misquoted and say, if you believe in me, you
have eternal life. He actually says Aeonian life,
which pertains to ages like there's going to be this age

(09:56):
followed by this age in the in what he says to wrap up the
whole thing, which nobody seems to talk about, which is amazing
is and then after all that is said and done, there's a Greek
phrase isetos Ionis tone Ionian.And it's in the Book of
Revelation where you know where they're talking about the lake
of fire, which isn't the lake offire.

(10:18):
It's the refiners fire is what it actually says, and it doesn't
say they will be thrown into thelake of fire where they'll be
tortured forever and ever. It says they will be cast into
the refining fire in the age of ages.
That's what Isos Iona stone Iona, and I'm getting really
geeky here. I love this.

(10:38):
I'm just blown away that how much of A seeker you are that
you actually went to the Greek. Well, it's worth to me like and
again, that comes through traumatoo.
I was in the Pentecostal church where the guy would say, well,
the Bible says this, God said it, I believe it.
And that settles it. And I'm like, that sounds very
dumb that you would just am I? OK, so that's it.

(11:01):
You're. So we're then just supposed to
go on your word because you havethis much understanding and
you're like, well, that's what it says.
And I'm like, no, I think what what if it means something way
you? Know and you took a deeper dive
yeah than the pastor and then. 'Cause I couldn't believe that
God would the IT says God is love, so why would love torture
anyone that that's blasphemous to me.

(11:24):
Yeah. And like so, I uncovered that
it's talking about. I'm guessing you didn't last
long in the Pentecostal church. Like, I mean, how, how long were
you in there? Well, now you have to understand
this whole journey, OK, was it had to unravel and unfold.
OK, let me let me let you just. No, that's OK then.
No, that's fine. I was in that kind of

(11:45):
Pentecostal. It's funny, I went from hyper
Pentecostal church. Then I moved to Colorado in 93
and I found the mild Pentecostalchurch, which was more, you
know. The Mile High.
Race oriented. Yeah, the Mile High Pentecostal
Church. I think I think some of them
might have been high, yeah, but they were much more the grace of

(12:08):
God and freedom in the belief system and being connected to
God and. And even if you blow it, it's
like God doesn't. And this is the thing that
again, if. A merciful God to.
A merciful God 'cause we're all imperfect humans with our own
filters and, and God isn't sitting there going, hey, what
are you doing? Come on, He's not up there doing

(12:29):
that. He's like, OK, this is, this is
fun. OK, whoop, he's going over
there. All right, let's try to move it
that way. And but it's all part of the, I
think even the whole Garden of Eden narrative was all set in
motion because I have to send these spiritual beings into the,
the, the great refining fire because how could they

(12:51):
appreciate the perfect divine eventually unless they've gone
through contrast and. Struggle is that that's the
whole thing, right? Where like, how do we, how do we
know that? Like kind of back to that union
thing, how do we know our light if we don't know our shadow?
And and what if, I mean, I've gone even this far, What if the
whole reincarnation thing is a version of that refining fire?

(13:16):
Because, and here here's the part getting back to the Greek
thing. When I looked up the whole thing
about it always says I'm like, why does it say fire in
brimstone? And I looked up, OK, what is
brimstone? Well, brimstone is what ancient
blacksmiths would test the purity of gold with.
You would take the gold out of the pot of and that's the the

(13:39):
fun thing too. Lake of Fire is actually
Crucible, which is the pot. There's actually a tutorial,
There's a guy on YouTube that says I've got this little
Crucible and I'm going to show you how to refine gold the old
school way. And he keeps taking the gold out
and then strikes it on. There's like this slab.
That's the. Brimstone.

(13:59):
And then the way it be, the way it behaves on there.
Yeah, like it leaves a mark. Now if the mark is green, it's
like, oh, there's alloys in there, there's base metal.
We have to put the gold back in the fire.
To cook out the base. Yep, it burn.
It off. It burns off at a different
temperature. Burns off and it's
sulphurization. So you've heard about like the

(14:21):
the lake of fire and sulphur is often said the sulfur is the
oxidizing agent, I guess. And so it's a perfect metaphor
for, and I'm sure the people reading it back then were like,
Oh, well, that doesn't sound pleasant to have to keep going
through that process. That's a purification.

(14:41):
Process. That's a purification.
Yeah. Oh, it's the.
It's the. Because you know, if you think
about it, if it says. As we reincarnate in the
evolution and we're like, OK, I'm going to I'm going to try
again and then I'm or I'm going to go back and like read I've, I
mean, I've listened to this book.
I don't know if you or I've listened to probably did listen
to I read it. I think actually the first time
many lives, many masters. I don't know if you've heard of

(15:03):
that book by Brian Weiss. Anyway, he he anyway, you know
what it's going to be hard for us to like, how do we get back
to your 1988 going to the psych ward and having your hero's
journey. I I.
Know like. We're I feel like we could have
part 2345 maybe. So I adore your mind.

(15:24):
I am like the fact that you are such a not only a curious
person, but like you dove in andthen you're able to recite these
things. Like I sometimes look up
something but then I'm not able to even recount it.
I think it's comes from like the, the passion, like, OK, if
you're in a traumatized environment and you're, you

(15:44):
feel, it's like I have found my spiritual path.
I, I had a, what I consider a very real revelation of Jesus,
like, like I felt the presence of God when this event happened.
It was at the end of or the, let's say, actually the real
beginning of the hero's journey.But this one night in September

(16:04):
of 89, I'm like, God, who are you?
I've been, I feel like I'm climbing this ladder and I'm
never going to be good enough. And then this amazing thing
happened. This little almost voice in my
head said, forgive your enemy. Who was the That was the
Threshold guardian? Character, that sociopath.
Yeah, and I'm like, what did youyou just saw what the this whole

(16:30):
thing that happened, right? I was in the psych ward because
of this and. So he derailed you to such a
place because you gave away yourpower, because you wanted right
there. Yeah.
Well, this is one of the things in my recovery program as a
recovering codependent that one of the sayings is we made other
people our God. We made other people our higher
power. And you ended up getting under

(16:51):
his spell in a way. And that's the.
That's a very repeated cycle where you'll have a codependent
linked up with a narcissistic type person.
Welcome to my world. And I've had relationships like
that. You and me both.
But I think, you know, I said, OK, fine.
I don't exactly know how to forgive, but OK, fine.

(17:11):
And then just like that. And you'd said yes?
Yeah, I said yes. I forgot.
I can barely describe the what happened.
You know how I talk about that dissociative identity thing?
First time in my life it went away.
Like I felt this, let's just saya spirit suddenly indwell me and

(17:32):
I'm like, I almost like leapt out of the bed like I was, this
was at midnight or something, you know, I leapt out of the bed
and I'm like, Oh my God. Whoa, OK, wow, I get it.
I understand the whole religiousthing and God and Jesus and all
that kind of stuff. And there's all this wrong
bullshit about it that like, if God totally forgave me and all

(17:52):
humanity, then what does that say?
That means that well, then I don't have to jump through any
hoop and I don't have to let or make anyone jump through any
hoop for me. And I don't know again I.
Have so much freedom. No, no, it's like a freedom.
And now, granted, thing a bunch of crap kind of came back over

(18:13):
it at different times in my life, but there's a core thing.
We go back to forgetting. Yeah.
And then you get reminded in like these really cool,
surprising ways, I think. And and again, I'm not trying to
exclude anyone. I need to hear this, Jeff, I,
you know, I this I'm very selfish with my podcast.
There's a reason the, the the mission statement is to help

(18:33):
heal myself and others. And so like you are giving me
Nuggets today. Like, I just want you to know
that like, I, I go in and out I go.
Yeah, I will have it. I go in and out of forgiving my
mother or forgiving my, you know, sociopathic abusers.
But then I'm like, Nance, you ina weird way, clocked in, signed
up. I don't know, even though it

(18:53):
feels like the roller coaster bar clicked down and I'm like,
I, I, I got in this car, you know, like anyway, so you're
giving me a nugget here. Like how do you keep remembering
that that is the key to like, OK, Ness or something?
I don't know. That's that's oversimplified.
And again, I could and should write a book on this.

(19:15):
I've I've actually written an outline.
This was came through my mind like about 5 minutes ago.
I said I hope Jeff writes a book.
Well, it's in the works actually, believe it or not, and
and. It's you're a great writer.
I'm I'm sitting here. I just want to get off the mic
and just I've been leaning back like closing my eyes, like I'm
listening to this story. I want to hear it.
My brains splinter so much ADHD.And yeah, well, there's and then

(19:38):
that's just life too. Your life has gone off on many
forks in the path. So this is a good place to jump
back in My friend Michael Ogre, We called him and we we talked
on the phone a lot years ago. And he told me he goes, you
know, Jeff, there's this, there's this thing where you
could say that life is thin threads like connected together.

(20:03):
On your journey, and I call themthin threads because if you had
taken a left instead of a right,you wouldn't, there's no way you
could have made it to this pointin life.
And that's why it like he and I agree that yeah, there's a
divine spirit that, you know, moves us through life, whether
it's the more challenging cyclical thing or the, you know,

(20:26):
some people just get the instantrevelation kind of thing of God
or whatever, you know. So for me, the thin threads
thing is, so I told you the whole setup to the my best
friend and the narcissist. And the thing that creeped me
out is that about a month beforethe thing happened, me and my
best friend were kind of hangingout.

(20:47):
And he said, yeah, man, this person, a lot of people are
freaked out by him 'cause like he, he has a lot of very
interesting and controversial views on religion and
spirituality. And a lot of people think that
that's like black magic and Satanism and all this kind of
stuff. And but I, I, I don't even think

(21:07):
that's. So he said something to me that
kind of, and it was probably manipulative because he maybe he
wanted the reaction. But my friend said, yeah, he
said to me that, well, what if Jesus was actually the
Antichrist and not the Christ orthe Messiah?

(21:28):
And I was just like, Oh my God, well, how, how can you not think
that That's satanic, you know? And anyway, so Fast forward.
But that provoke? Did that provoke you?
Yeah, it it. I had kind of mixed feelings,
'cause I wasn't, I don't. This is a year before I had that
revelation and like meeting withthe presence of God, I wasn't

(21:51):
really yet a believer. I still had all kinds of.
Yeah, just still, still more just gathering data points,
Yeah, and and and. Kind of had a belief, but.
And I think during adolescence, especially as a, you know, we're
questioning everything and there's an openness, but there's
also that very critical thinkingthat's going on, at least for
me. I remember that.
I remember being 19 and going tocollege and getting, you know,

(22:14):
because I grew up in Springfield, MO, you know, the
buckle of the Bible belt. And it's like, but I, but my dad
always did say, you know, we're just, I just want you to go to
church so you know how to behaveif we ever go there.
And he loved to sing. He loved to sing.
And he was a theologian. Like he had studied the Bible
but didn't quite believe it. That time of life is like
you're, you're a seeker, you know?

(22:35):
And I think when you're a seeker, I think God or the
divine will point you toward bigpassions because the I think
those things can, if they're, they're like the train engine
that moves you down the track. And ultimately it isn't just for
you. It that there's a blessing that

(22:57):
spreads to like when you said that you feel like you're there
in my painting or that it's partof you.
That's, I feel like that's my mission with art is that I want
you to be brought into. I wanted to spark one of your
memories or something. I I don't even know exactly you
know what that means, but. Tap into the collective

(23:18):
unconscious. Yeah, that, you know, that used
to be such a when I would hear that, I'm like, oh, that's New
eight. I was kind of freaked out by the
new 8 and I'm not anymore because I understand the whole
thing more broadly, I think. But in that moment, there was
this emerging big passion that Iwas, you know, introduced to.
So I'm a I'm a marching band geek in high school.

(23:42):
And, and we were, we were OK as a marching band.
But one year we were actually mybrother that I wasn't yet in the
band, but my parents took me to see my brother compete with all
these other marching bands. There was a group at the end of
the night that came on an exhibition that wasn't part of
the competition. They were the all these guys

(24:03):
that were, it was called the Madison Scouts Drum and Bugle
Corps. And I'm like, well, what's a
drum and bugle corps and what are they, Boy Scouts or
something? But I started hearing people in
the audience be like, Oh no, Oh my God, no.
They're like world champion professional level, you know,
wait till you see them. And I'm like, yeah, yeah,
whatever. And I was watching the marching

(24:23):
bands and everything and, you know, being a 7th grade kid, I
was like, wow, they're, they're so good musically and all that.
Did they give you goosebumps? I used to get chills with the
marching band. Yeah, I would get chills.
It's. Powerful.
It's it's very powerful. But then I, I kind of look over
and to get into the stadium, there's kind of this long hill

(24:44):
and I look over and I see this long line of like these guys,
they were like set up two by twoand that it was like this very
dark green uniform. It had like this red sash and
these kind of white Aussie hats,but without the feather, just
this, you know, kind of a a bit cooler looking than these

(25:08):
marching bands. And as I looked closer at them,
they, they were kind of like these very rebel looking guy.
It's an all male core or it was back then and they they looked
like members of Black Sabbath. They all had kind of the WAVY
hair under the Aussie mustaches and, and, and then you hear a

(25:29):
count off and they started marching or what I call floating
'cause they had like it, it's very dark uniform, but they had
these white spats and all you could see from here was this
perfect glide step, like the feet were hitting and rolling
through at the exact. Same time, so tight.

(25:52):
So tight and yet they were kind of like they were so confident
and you know how when you see a seasoned comic versus a newbie,
they're so confident and laid back and yet they have tight
perfect jokes. But it's like nothing you and if
you feel that energy this you'reyou're watching these kids who

(26:15):
are very talented and then all of a sudden these guys who are
like this is nothing. And that's just getting onto the
field. Then they line up and they hit.
And this isn't like so marching bands have trombones, clarinets,
tubas, saxophones. This was all brass like pointed,

(26:37):
you know, bell front held out like this.
Right at the bleachers. Yeah, straight at you and they
hit the first note and I was like, wow, like it was this wall
of sound and you talk about likespine tingling all the way down
to my feet and I. And it just I, I was so blown.
And the level of difference between even the winners and

(27:01):
this group, I'm like, Oh my God,secretly one day, you know, I
want to do that. So anyway, that's like back in
7th grade and I then I went through the rest of middle
school, high school, and I wouldthink about seeing that once in
a while. In fact, every time that we when

(27:22):
I was in the marching band, I thought, yeah, you know, we're,
we're, we're pretty good, you know, but there was always that
standard, what do you play? So when I got when I was in
marching band, baritone, which is like, it's the same sound as
a trombone, but like Fuller. So there there's baritone
saxophone, but the baritone, do you know what a euphonium is?

(27:46):
No, that that's kind of the samething.
Oh, think of you have. To look at a picture.
Picture a like a miniature tuba.So that's what I played in high
school marching band. In concert band, it was it was
like you held it in your lap andthe bell points up like that.
OK, I think it has. This part of a concert thing,

(28:07):
but in high school marching band, it was like we had them up
on our shoulder. So the bell pointed forward and
then but in drum and bugle corpsyou I've got these big shoulders
from holding this monster up outin front of me.
So anyway, high school passes and summer of 88, my mom says,

(28:29):
hey Jeff, there's there's some marching band on PBS.
And so I run downstairs and turnit on and I'm expecting marching
band, but it's these high level professional groups.
Welcome to the the DCI 1988 World Championships and going
into finals night here we have 5cores are poised to possibly be

(28:50):
your winner. And they are the cadets of
Bergen County Phantom Regiment, Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Santa
Clara Vanguard and the Madison Scouts from Madison.
And my Oh my God, I remember those guys.
From 7th grade. Yeah, from way, way back.
Yeah. And then I see their performance
and I'm just like, whoa, like, even more impressive.

(29:13):
A few months pass in October of 88, so I had been in our
community jazz band. And so on this one Tuesday night
I go to. By the way, I'll also throw in
here that during that time I started developing A seasonal
depression. So that colored the whole thing
too. OK, so one night I and I'm, I'm

(29:36):
feeling the depression, but I'm like, well, I, we got jazz band
rehearsal. So OK, I'm going to go down to
the high school where we practice.
Can you just say what is your when you said I'm feeling the
depression, what does it feel like to you?
Like is it just a lack of interest in everything or why am
I here or I don't want to be here or what?
Is it a thought or is it a feeling?
Or both? At the time it was an

(29:58):
overwhelming feeling of dread because it was trauma based,
even though the seasonal part affected it and I didn't know
that it was trauma based. I didn't understand what was
going on. Now I do perfectly.
I can see in the rear view the whole mechanism for it.
But wow. Anyway, so that night.

(30:21):
I was just thinking that might help listeners to say like
listen, because some people don't know like that's
depression or that's you know, Ithink I like I was telling you
when you came over, you like howyou doing.
I'm like, I really good during the day.
I'm really good and then the sungoes.
I'm like, I think I have like sundowner depression where it's
and I think I had trauma in the night.
Anyway, that's another story. But all I'm saying is at night I

(30:43):
dissociate. Like I've been watching non-stop
poker, I'm doom scrolling, I'm watching chess, like all these
things that just sort of Take MeOut of feeling like an
intellectual, like watching chess moves and just watching
people play poker or and then scrolling until I'm like, what
am I looking for? What is the one I'm waiting for?
You know, it's just that and then it's 4:00 in the morning

(31:06):
and then and then I'm angry whenI wake up at 12:30.
I'm like, Nancy, you missed a beautiful sunrise.
You could have gone on a hike. Who are you like?
But then I'm now I'm like, yay, I'm happy.
I'm going to see Jeff. I'm going to have play Scrabble
with Catherine. I'm I'm happy, but then is that
depression or is that I think that's trauma.

(31:27):
I then I've been talking to my trauma therapist.
I think I knew need to do another deeper dive.
Something's she keeps asking me to ask What is it I don't want
to feel and I don't know, sometimes it's just loneliness
that I don't want to feel but it's there's something else that
makes me want to cry and I. There's I can say for me what I
uncovered and I'm just going to Fast forward to.

(31:50):
You don't have to Fast forward, I just wanted to drop in for a
second. But I want to say something
about that because I I don't suffer from those depressive
episodes anymore, hardly ever. And when they start sneaking up,
I know what to do in my mind to kind of get down to the root and
then unravel it. OK, that's what I want to hear.
So 2008, I'm with my therapist who specializes in adoption.

(32:13):
She was an adoptee herself and we're in a session and for some
reason she decided, well, I havea new kind of method of therapy
and then let we're going to do that.
And I want you to visualize. I forgot exactly what it was,
but something about it kind of like snuck past a boundary with
me like I and I let it again, people pleaser, you know, it

(32:37):
made me very uncomfortable, but I didn't speak up and I didn't
even consciously realize that I wasn't speaking up.
So we continued through the session and she's like, OK,
well, let's we'll see you next time I get on my motorcycle to
go home. And then all of a sudden that
what I'll call the overwhelming wave of dread that actually

(33:01):
makes me think I'm losing my mind because it feels like
everything is shifted off its access.
It hits me and it's just, oh, it's the just the creepiest.
It feels like a violation happening internally, you know?
And, and I'm going, I'm like, oh, OK, wow.
All right, well, let me, let me just get home.
I get home and I'm just so overwhelmed by it that I'm like,

(33:25):
all I could do was lay down to take a nap.
And I thought, yeah, let me justcrash.
And when I wake up, you know, maybe I'll, I'll figure out
what's going on. I wake up, the dread is 10 times
worse. And now, and this has only
happened maybe three times in myentire life, I felt actually
suicidal. Like, not the ideation where

(33:48):
you're like fantasizing about it, but I am going to have to to
make this feeling go away, you know?
That's so overwhelming. Like it it.
It's intolerable. It's intolerable.
So somehow I had the presence ofmind.
I sent my Kathy, my therapist, Isent her an e-mail.
And this is like 11 or midnight.And I'm like, hey, Kathy, this

(34:09):
is Jeff. If you get this, please call me.
I know it's late, but I am, I amsuicidal.
And I I want to try to look for another option.
Yeah. And desperate.
Boom, my cell phone rings and she goes what's going on?
And I go, well. And I kind of hemmed and hawed

(34:30):
because I in that time of wakingup, I thought I could identify
where it was coming from, where it started.
And I go well, and in order to get it out in the open, I was
going to have to confront her and say what happened.
That she was the impetus or thatthat process that.
Process was the impetus and it felt like but this is oh, what

(34:54):
if she hates me and you know, like that full.
Abandonment. Yeah, all of that or what?
How it was with my adoptive mother, you know, she also had a
degree of narcissism and to stand up to her finally took
amazing like focus and courage and all that.

(35:14):
So I said to Kathy, I'm like, OK, OK, here.
Here's what it is Kathy. And, and you might be mad and,
and we might have to part ways and I'm sorry, but today in
session when you started puttingus into this new method, it hit
my trauma. I, I, I can't do it.
I can't do that method. I, I, I need to go back to our

(35:35):
old method. It was working fine.
And, and I know that's probably going to offend you, but I, I, I
can't handle that it, it just creeps me out.
And she said, Oh my God. Well, first of all, thank you
for like mentioning that. And she's like, no, look, this
is about you. Like, you know, we don't have to
ever explore that type of therapy.

(35:55):
We can go back to the talk therapy.
This is all about, you know, like we're finding solutions.
And well, first of all, as soon as I said this is what happened,
like half of that depression, that dread just vanished.
And then when she said, no, thisis perfectly fine.
Thank you for giving a voice to this.

(36:16):
It was 100% gone. And that's when I knew, Oh my
God, my, my depression has always been basically pushing my
my true self out of the way in order to people.
Please take care of the other person and and avoid we as
codependents. We are terrified of abandonment.

(36:37):
And I mean, is that OK that I keep saying we're codependents?
I shouldn't do that as a codependent.
I am let me just. Say.
OK, I'm just saying I'm that is actually a codependent faux pas.
But I am, let me just tell you, I am a codependent and I am
terrified of abandonment and I'man adult child, which it means,
you know, I got stunted in my development at some point.

(36:58):
Spot on. I mean, me too.
And I look at my, some of my addictive struggles, they are
directly woven into because those I discovered those as
coping mechanisms to medicate the core trauma.
And I weirdly enough that basically I went on this whole

(37:20):
path of actually permitting the addiction at the advice of a, of
a Christian counselor, believe it or not, this British guy, but
it was he's awesome because he was saying that half of this
type of addiction is the, the shame and the fear and the
condemnation of it. You know, here's a fun Bible
verse. The apostle Paul at one point

(37:40):
says because we are in the new covenant and not bound to the
law anymore, all things are permissible, yet not all things
are beneficial. And that was a paradigm shift
because the people he was writing that to only knew do
this and God will bless you. Do that and God will curse you.
He was saying no, that's done and over with.

(38:02):
Now we have a connection with God and you can do whatever.
Like I don't recommend doing whatever you want, but
technically you could and God's not going to be throwing you
into hell or berating. Your just be natural
consequences. There's natural consequences,
but that's the beauty of the journey is that you get to find

(38:22):
out. Oh well, what would the loving
thing be like? If I'm, if I have the love of
God and I'm imparting it to other people, well, I'm probably
not going to be wanting to use them for my gratification, you
know, so it's. That, yeah.
So this counselor, Colin, yeah, I'll never forget it.

(38:43):
I was struggling with. I'm like, Colin, OK, I've got a
dilemma. Next week I'm going back to
Madison and I have this old boss, Cindy and we had like a
connection and and you know, youknow, we might end up, you know,
like getting in bed and and I'm Hemming and hawing about it.
And he finally says he goes, Oh my God, dear boy, just fuck her

(39:03):
already, because what you're doing in your own mind is a far
greater sin than if you just connect and have this lovely
time and and you know, he gave like balance to it and
everything. But but oddly enough, when I as
I've been really going for it inthe comedy thing, that whole

(39:24):
addiction, the needing to go find hookup partners has just
like like just dwindled. I finally found self validation
in the specific area that I was trying to find people pleasing
in that area. Yeah, that.
Makes sense. No, it does make sense.
We took a few like, you know, tangents.
But I want to make sure we get back.

(39:44):
So I'm going to reflect back, make sure I heard what you said,
which was what helped me relievemy depression was when I
actually started staying connected to my authentic
experience, not abandoning myself.
Yep. To please another person.
Absolutely. And I think self abandonment is
is. Key like that's to recognize
that so I need to look at that there's something in me that I

(40:07):
must be abandoning myself at night 'cause it's not the thing
I really want to do It's like I,I have some other things like
are on my mind, like projects. I want to do some painting.
I I was an art major, my dad wasa fine artist and I mean there's
AI have that art in me as well that needs to come out, but I'm
not doing it I'm scrolling instead I'm like why?
And then anyway, OK, so I'm abandoning myself when I look at

(40:28):
that. And then the other thing back
with the when we started off andyou said I'm just this is a
whole story in and of itself. When I went into the psych ward.
And then you had the and it was because of some, again, self
abandonment and making that guy your higher power or whatever.
You lost yourself. You got lost you what happened?

(40:49):
You dissociated so far that you got lost like.
So Tuesday night I'm, I'm tryingto go to the band rehearsal,
find out, oh, it was cancelled. And I'm like, oh man, OK, so I
go home. Well, and a replay of that drum
core thing was on TV and I saw it and they had, but they had

(41:09):
different camera angles. And I saw this big closer move
that the Madison Scouts did where I literally jumped up and
I'm like, OK, and and they introduce the core director on
the broadcast. They're directed by Scott
Stewart. I go to the phone and I call
Madison information and I'm like, give me the number of

(41:29):
either Scott Stewart or Madison Scouts from the Bugle core.
They give me a number. I call the number and this guy
Roger, who would later become one of my best friends.
Roger answers and I go, yeah, I I want to talk to Scott Stewart.
Oh, well, he's not here, He's inCalifornia.
Well, I want to join the OR audition or whatever.
And he goes, oh, well, auditionsare Thanksgiving weekend and I

(41:52):
can have him call you. And I'm like, yeah, no, no,
I'll, I'll just try back in a couple weeks, blah, blah, blah,
whatever. You know, So this was the big
hero's journey. Like I want, I wanted to go and
get into that high level. And by the way, they won the
world championship that year. So wow.
I get off the phone with this Roger guy.

(42:15):
The phone rings. Hey, Jeff, it's Tom.
Me and Rob and John are going tohang out down at the the pool
hall. Why don't you come down?
I'm like, hey, OK, cool. You know, I go down there and
the guy in question basically said, Hey, let's let's go back
to my place and party and get high or whatever.

(42:35):
Well, I go and they're passing around a, a bowl, you know, and
I had never really tried marijuana.
And I'm like, well, you know, I,I don't want to look like an
idiot. So every time it came around to
me, I was just like, like full, deep inhales.
Taking big hits. Big hits of what was probably

(42:57):
the equivalent of like chronic back then.
This was like some pure stuff. And my friend told me later that
he counted. I probably took 12 to 14 hits of
that thing. So I'm sitting there and this
and the main guy, he start we're, we're all kind of just
joking around and quoting GeorgeCarlin and stuff, just having

(43:20):
fun. And then the guy turns to me and
he says, hey, Jeff, I have a question for you.
What do you know about religion?And he's like staring at me like
creepily. And I'm like, I, you know, I,
you know, I didn't want to suddenly I kind of closed down.
I didn't want to reveal what I thought, you know, but he knew

(43:40):
because he's talking to Tom, right?
And I go, oh, you know, I don't know, I believe in God, blah,
blah, blah, whatever, you know? OK, that's cool.
Well, what do you know about philosophy?
And there was just something creepier about that, even.
You could feel it that he was trying to like.
You're doing. Something he's trying to set you
up. Yeah, this is something.
This is a setup. So I I kind of mumble something

(44:02):
and then he goes, OK, well, wellthat's cool.
Hey guys, give me a second. I'll be right back.
I got to go do something. So he disappears into the the
backroom. Few minutes later he comes out
wearing this black robe with allthese like diamond patterns on
it, like really weird. He sits down and behind him
there was like this low shelf that I didn't notice it until

(44:26):
this point. On one end there was like a red
candle and on the other end was a black candle.
He lit the black candle and I'm looking at it and seeing the
whole thing. And then he lights the other
candle and all of a sudden I'm like locked into a trance and
I'm feeling this force start to try to pull me out, like up

(44:46):
through my head, out of my body.And yeah, talk about like
occult, you know, And now part of.
Me like a demon. Yeah, I mean, there it felt like
some like a vibe. There was a vibration and I, I
couldn't talk. I was paralyzed.
And I felt, but part of me said,God protect me.

(45:09):
And when I said that, all of a sudden, I, you know, kind of
came back into my body. But I was like almost hovering
out of the top of my head. And some people have said, oh,
that was probably just all the pot that was hitting you.
I don't know, I got to tell you,I've never believed in demons
myself until one of my guests came on and she specializes in

(45:31):
schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder.
She's a psychiatrist, but she calls, she believes in non
linear others. She calls them non linear
others. I don't know, man, because that
sounds very woo. That's kind of freaking me out.
Yep, and. But that OK.
So then he started preaching basically, and he starts saying,

(45:55):
OK, well, you know, have you ever noticed like you feel this
way or think this way? Well, that's because like what
you think is evil and darkness is actually good.
And he was even hinting that Godis the devil and the devil is
God. You know, that just that kind
of. And it's a mind fuck.
You know, looking back in the wider view, I think he was
actually delving into a bit of Taoism, but it was mixed with

(46:19):
just some other shit that he wasgetting into that was a cultic.
But yeah, because there were phrases that he was saying that
you can read in the Dao or the Dao.
Dai Jing. Yeah.
Like the the Dao that can be named is not the eternal Dao,
but he was saying stuff like that.
But it but it just had this darkness to.
It even had us do exercises where close your eyes, ball up

(46:43):
your fists, and now picture yourself sinking going into a
darker room. And don't worry, darkness is not
evil, you know, and then go darker and deeper and darker and
deeper and darker and, and I interpreted that as like pretty
like literal, you know, like you're like, I'm supposed to be
embracing evil and darkness and all that.

(47:04):
And I think in his mind, this isa really an exercise to get you
to surrender to your deeper inner self, you know, but it's,
it certainly didn't come out that way.
I gotcha. And I'm just, I'm saying that
because I want to give him some credit that this guy wasn't pure
evil or even evil just on his own journey and.

(47:28):
Not necessarily trying to steal your soul, right?
But but I sure thought that thatwas the.
That was your experience? Because just, you know, being an
abandoned adoptee with like, a lot of paranoia.
And that and that ripping experience, that was very real,
but. It's the best thing that ever
could have happened to me. Oh, by.
The way. OK, here we go.
That that night is traumatic, infact.
This is your dark night of the soul dark.

(47:50):
Night of the Soul. OK, he was the agent of it
unwittingly or maybe a little bit wittingly, you know, see,
but he was the guy that I forgave.
So I can look at him as, yeah, he he just maybe didn't quite
know what he was even involved in.
And he might have had really good intentions, but it just
didn't come off that way to me. And there's some unconscious

(48:12):
soul agreement I feel that happens like a soul handshake,
like I'm going to play this partin this lifetime or in this
moment so that you can have thiscan break something down so that
you can build something strongerit.
Yeah. Because it's sort of like the
wabi sabi, you know, like where something is stronger after it's

(48:32):
been broken. Yeah, look at when you work out
in the gym, you're tearing down the muscle.
So, you know, we went through that whole mystical crazy thing.
And one of the things that he said was you'll notice when you
start to regain kind of normal consciousness, the fake you will
try to come back and suppress this you, which is this whole

(48:53):
thing that happens now. This is the true you.
And that really fucked my mind. But who knew that that that is
the some of the best stuff is getting to the the shadow work.
But but you know, I I advocate shadow work, but make make it
consensual. Right, like, well, yeah, with

(49:15):
your therapist where you sometimes they tear down the
wall, but you've got to have that, that like I call my
recovery program scaffolding so that when I'm tearing down the
foundation, I have. You have that.
I have the scaffolding of my program or my fellow travellers,
you know, to hold me up. That night happened.
The trauma hit me, the tearing apart.
I mean, I felt these entities. I couldn't sleep at night for

(49:38):
six weeks because and I was still living with my parents,
you know, I would go and sleep on their floor and my dad, God
love him, would he didn't know what this was or how to handle
it. He would hold my hand sometimes
because that's the only thing heknew.
And he felt so inadequate. And I'm like, dad, that was the
best thing. You showed empathy and that you

(49:59):
guys were there. And held held on to.
You guys drove me down to Belen Hospital, you know, because you
saw me on the verge, you know? And, and sleep deprived
psychosis is very common, very common for people you know.
So I was in that. Is that what you had like a
sleep deprived psychosis? And drug induced psychosis

(50:19):
because that much weed, you know, Yeah, the people at the
hospital even said it sounds like PCP was involved.
And there there's no like we don't know.
But I get so six weeks I'm in the hospital and and I get out
perfect timing. I get an acceptance letter to a
Technical College in Madison that puts me closer to the

(50:42):
Madison Scouts. Oh cool.
One day I'm in classes for commercial art and still have
the depression and I decide, well you know what?
I I think I'm going to I need a break from class.
I walked down the hallway and I'm like screw it, I'm I'm going
to catch the bus and go home. But this thought hit me.

(51:04):
Wait, don't go home just yet. Take a right and go down to the
rec center. You know, play a game of
foosball or a video game or something.
I go down there and over here atthe foosball table, I see a guy
wearing this green jacket with aFleur de lis symbol on the back
that says Madison core. And I'm like, that's, that's a

(51:25):
weird looking jacket. Madison core.
Is that the Madison? No, it says Madison, you know.
So anyway, I, I walk up to the guy and I see all these patches
on the arms and one of them up here says 1988 DCI world
champion. I go, are you, are you in the,
are you a Madison scout? And he goes, yeah, man, my name
is Clyde. I'm nice to meet you.

(51:46):
I've played symbols. I just aged out and I'm like, Oh
my God, I've never I, I've wanted to be in the scouts
forever. And, and, but, but I missed
auditions because I was in the the hospital, you know, And he
he says, well, dude, you should call Scott anyway because
sometimes they have fallouts, you know, people get into
rehearsals and it's too brutal and they quit.
So they might have a spot. Here's his number.

(52:09):
I run to the pay phone. Leave this excited.
My name's Ruth Conan. I want to be in the, you know,
blah, blah, blah. And that night, Scott Stewart
calls me and he says, well, OK, so tell me, what's your musical
experience? And I go, well, I've got, you
know, seven years of jazz band and marching band, all that.
You know, I played valve trombone and baritone.

(52:31):
And he says, oh, OK. Well, you know, unfortunately,
right now we only have a French horn spot open.
And I'm like, ah, OK. Well, yeah.
I thought I'd give it a shot, though.
And he goes, well, well, hold on.
I got a couple more questions. Why do you want to be in the
Madison Scouts now? He was expecting, well, you guys
are the champion and I want to chase that ring and be a be a

(52:54):
champion, but that wasn't even on my mind.
I said, Oh my God, I, I saw you guys in 82 and, and, and you
guys had this aura and this whole image and, and this great
music. I just want to be a part.
I mean, hell, I'll, I'll be, I'll play triangle in the pit if
you know, or I'll be the waterboy and he goes, huh, You

(53:14):
know what? Actually, I've got this guy
Dave, who I got him on euphonium, but he's actually a
tuba major in college. Let me give him a phone call,
see if he'd be willing to switchover to Contrabase.
And then if he does, then you would have a shot at euphonium.
And I'm like, Oh my God, wow, you would do that?
He goes, yeah, yeah, for sure, Yeah, absolutely.

(53:37):
Let me. I'll.
I'll call you Sunday morning andI'll let you know.
And I'm praying like, Oh my God,I can't even believe I've got
this, you know? And so Sunday morning he calls
and he goes, well, Dave is switching, so you got a shot.
What's your address? I'll bring a horn over to you.
And and two years of my life, best 2 summers of my life, 8990.

(53:59):
I'm a member of this amazing core, the Madison Scouts.
This is. Incredible and I got I got those
truth chills again when that when that thought, you know, and
those those are interesting. Those little thoughts that come
from we don't know the divine orwhere that just says or I
believe in like spirit guides, You know, I, I do think I have
these. Angels Spirit.

(54:20):
Guides. Yeah, I think I have these
little muses are like, hey, whatif you did this and guide that
is amazing. Can you imagine?
And it was the first time in my life that I had a fire lit in
me. And, you know, Fast forward a
couple years, I'm going watching.
I'm an alumni now, aged out in 1990.

(54:42):
This is like the spring of 93. I remember one day in the spring
of 93, I'm praying with my roommate Charlie from my church.
And I'm like Charlie, you know, I, I love living in Madison and
I'm, I'm just in customer service, but I, I feel like I'm
getting depressed again. I feel like I was meant for
something bigger and and I'm like, would you pray with me

(55:03):
that God would lead me into likea you know what?
Fucking I'm going to go for broke.
I want to be a professional artist.
Like I'm talented at art. And he goes, you got it, man.
Let's pray for that. OK, well, so in around that
time, I'm like, oh, it's Sunday afternoon.
I'll go watch the guys rehearse the the scouts.
So I go over to the field house where they were.

(55:24):
Justin Russell's mom comes up and says, Hey Jeff, you know
those those drum core drawings that I see that you do.
Do you have your little portfolio with you?
And yeah, sure she goes well, cuz Justin is going to this art
school and he wants to show his friends and stuff.
And I'm like, Oh yeah, sure, I could do that.

(55:45):
And so I give it to her to give to him and didn't think anything
of it. Two weeks later, I get a call.
Hey, is this Jeff Cone? I'm like, yeah, hey, my name is
Carrie Pastein. I'm admissions Rep at Colorado
Institute of Art. I've seen your drawings.
You got fucking talent, man. I I want you to come out to
Denver and go to this school. And so that thread of being in

(56:07):
the Scouts, I meet with one of my fellow marchers, goes to this
art school. It brings me here that launches
me into my art career, which launched me into my comedy.
I mean, it's just all orchestrated.
Isn't it cool, like the things that just following, but
following your passion, following that, whatever that

(56:29):
was, that feeling of awe that you had with the Madison Scouts
and then and step into it like when the light shines right
there, step towards that. And it is a leap of faith, but
it's almost like, you know, I, Iremember in, in the summer of
2001, I had briefly moved back to Wisconsin, which caused

(56:50):
depression again, 'cause I was compromising, I was letting my
inner self kind of get taken back over by my parents.
They genuinely wanted to help me.
They're like, oh, you know what,move back and regroup and blah,
blah, blah. But it was traumatizing.
So anyway, one day I'm like, andI had a church guy back there
that because I kept talking about art, pursuing art, and

(57:12):
he's like, well, no, God has youhere.
And what if he's preparing you to be a missionary?
And I'm like, fuck that. No, that's if that's what my
calling was. I would be passionate for that.
I'm not. That's not your passion.
So one day I'm like, I'm like, OK, God.
Here's the thing. I'm, I am going to be an artist.
I, I'm going to do whatever it takes.

(57:32):
I'm going to break down every, every wall that I have to please
bless that. And I'm going to move back to
Colorado where I was meant to be.
And you know what? If, if you're, if you're trying
to keep me here, then, well, I guess you're going to have to
like slap me or say, you know, something like that.
But instead it was I swear I heard a slow clap from heaven.

(57:53):
I said to. Say bingo.
Yeah, duh. Hey, McFly, thank you for
finally, like, you know, rising up and taking the gift that I
gave you and just the doors almost magically, the career
that I have an art opened because of that intention.
And that's why I like, I want tospeak this truth because I'm

(58:16):
sure there's people who are justkind of under this, this blanket
of depression or like, who am I?What am I supposed to do?
And if you like start even the first step following your
passion, it's like, I'm not saying that will automatically
cure clinical depression or whatever, but.
It's certainly brings an aliveness that, you know, when I

(58:40):
think about depression for myself, it is, it is a deadening
of something. You know, it's awakening, you
know, that awakening that passion is.
And what did you say earlier? Suppression or oppression leads
to depression. Yeah, something like that.
Read it. Somebody had it on a bumper.
Suppressing our authentic self like, you know, we don't like in
our culture. It's like, ah, I want to fit in,

(59:02):
I want to belong. And when you have to change
yourself to belong in either a family, a community, a culture.
And I think that's when we startsaying, wait a minute, I know
this isn't a popular thing to bewhether it's like in my case,
you know, when I identified as alesbian or whatever, you know,
it's not necessarily pleasing mymother.

(59:23):
Sure. It definitely displeased her,
but it it awakened me and then I, I.
Found a connection. And then I keep meeting people
like this is what I love about doing this, like doing traumedy
too, because I we, we meet each other and I love our comedy
community. I'm sure in your art community
too. It is.
I just love the people we get tomeet.
Like to me, that's the the, the best thing that's come out of
it. Not necessarily so true.

(59:44):
There's a part of us that I wanted to like at some point in
my childhood, be famous because that would make me special, or
that that would cure my inadequacies.
But I have. That with I'm like, but you
know, if Wendy finally passes me, then I'll be somebody in the
last promotion like I got didn'tget promoted again and I'm like,

(01:00:05):
whoa. Well, then who am I in the, you
know, and then I have to realizeno, no, no, no, she it's.
She'll make her your higher power.
She's not my higher power, but yet I respect that.
Well, she's looking for certain things.
I may not fit that. That's OK, and that doesn't
invalidate her or me. And trying to trust our path.
And I also realized that, oh, you know what?
OK, when I have those moments when I'm at the club and I'm

(01:00:27):
like, oh, well, that person doesn't like me.
And then it hits that same rejection search for
significance and status, but even more to the point I get
home and I go, why? Why am I letting this affect me?
I'm I shouldn't be affected. This is all 8th grade stuff.
And then I realize, oh, wait, I'm diminishing my own working
through trauma and it and it OK,what if God placed me in this

(01:00:52):
struggle that who, who am I in the Denver comedy scene and all
those feelings of childhood rejection, They're being brought
up again. Because maybe that is to sharpen
me and to make me a better vessel in the community for
other people. I love encouraging young comics

(01:01:12):
that that's something that just it pleases me when they figure
something out and I watch them like nail the joke.
I'm like, yes, he did it or she did it, you know, but maybe
that's part of why I'm here. And maybe like the people that I
think don't like me. It's so funny.
I've, I discovered that, oh, youknow what?
I'm not even mad that she didn'tput me on the roster.

(01:01:35):
I'm mad because I interpret it as she doesn't like me as a
person. Yeah.
And I'm like, where does that come from?
That's we don't you know. When when you're comedian and
your commodity is your comedy, yeah.
It's so hard to separate those out.
It really is. One of the things that I'm
getting is like, anything like that that bothers me just points
to where I need to heal. Like, Nancy, you need to keep

(01:01:56):
filling that. Like what?
Again, I keep harping on my program, but it's so much about
connection with higher power. And when we have that constant
contact with higher power, we'renever lonely.
We're never questioning. We're like, oh, OK, I just, we
turn our will over and it's sortof like, OK, God use me.
How am I supposed to be of service?
And like you said, this makes uswhatever more available to

(01:02:19):
certain people or also to ourselves.
And I'm getting chills because that's reminding me that Oh my
God, yeah. When I let go, sometimes it's
every other day I go back to theoh, Yep, I remember.
But it's when I let go, God reminds me that hey, isn't the
most fun time on stage when you just kind of surrender the
agenda and just roll with even like ditching the set.

(01:02:44):
And hey, what if you want to talk about that weird thing?
Surrender to the muses. Yeah, surrender.
I like that. Surrender the agenda.
It's got a nice ring to it. That might be the name of this
episode. Surrender the agenda.
Surrender the agenda. That might be the name of this
episode. So wow, thank you for dropping
in. And I want to continue to talk

(01:03:04):
with you about stuff and play chess.
Turns out, yeah. So we'll see how we how and I
want to play. I'll play a little clip from the
Madison. What are they called?
Madison? Scoutstrom, Bugle Corps and
I'll. Send you a clip.
OK, send me a clip. And then also so people can find
your art and can we buy your artlike off of how do we see now?

(01:03:25):
That's a tricky thing because I have a Rep that and the
galleries that she sells to represent.
Me. Where are your what?
So how do we find your galleries?
OK. So you can Google if you just
type in Jeff Cone art. OK.
Galleries that I in that I'm in will pop up OK, and then people
can either contact them or they can contact my art Rep Sarah

(01:03:45):
Stock, OK, and her number is 303-888-9978. 303888. 9978
Remember the Old 588-2300? Empire, yeah.
Yeah. All right, find Jeff Jeff Cone

(01:04:06):
on Instagram. Jeff Cone stand up on.
Instagram Jeff Cone stand up on Instagram and I'll put a link in
the show notes and Oh my gosh, this has been amazing.
I, I, I have, I have a lot of questions, but we have to stop
for now because I got I've got aScrabble date.
All right. Thanks, Jeff.
Thank you. I want to thank my guest, Jeff

(01:04:28):
Cone. Check out his Instagram.
Jeff Cone stand up and that's you know, well, you don't have
to spell it KOEHN. That's Jeff Koen and I want to
thank my son for putting together the music loop for
traumedy. I want to thank you, the
listener for being on this Co healing journey.
You listening to it, holding space and it's peer-to-peer

(01:04:49):
sharing. We're doing our best trying to
show. Here's how we got through stuff
using comedy, using expression, art, music, anything that helps
move you back into a space of creativity and empowerment.
That's what I'm talking about onTrauma D Thanks for tuning in.
I will do my best to upload another episode from the lake

(01:05:09):
cabin if I have enough Wi-Fi. If not, I'll see you in a couple
of weeks probably. Get out there and create
something. I'm Nancy Norton, remember?
No matter what, keep laughing.